Messages in S-Trains group.

Page 1 of 1.

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Group: S-Trains	Message: 10916	From: Bob Werre	Date: 1/1/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: Ore Cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10917	From: Peck	Date: 1/1/2001
Subject: Re: smoke wicks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10918	From: michael prell	Date: 1/1/2001
Subject: Man in search of engine
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10919	From: Rick {bAss-flyer} Evans	Date: 1/1/2001
Subject: Re: a.f. flatcar i.d. assistance
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10920	From: Robert Wight	Date: 1/1/2001
Subject: Re: Paul's mini cam shots
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10921	From: Rick {bAss-flyer} Evans	Date: 1/1/2001
Subject: First post of 2001.....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10922	From: Alan C Udy	Date: 1/1/2001
Subject: Track Terminal Arcing
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10923	From: Mark Kiner	Date: 1/1/2001
Subject: New list member and a question
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10924	From: Mark Kiner	Date: 1/1/2001
Subject: Northern
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10925	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 1/1/2001
Subject: AVI Video File from Box Car Cam!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10926	From: Rick {bAss-flyer} Evans	Date: 1/1/2001
Subject: Re: New list member and a question
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10927	From: Ktrdd@AOL.com	Date: 1/1/2001
Subject: Re: Track Terminal Arcing
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10928	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/1/2001
Subject: Re: Northern
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10929	From: erierailroad@aol.com	Date: 1/1/2001
Subject: AF WHEEL GAUGE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10930	From: Rick {bAss-flyer} Evans	Date: 1/1/2001
Subject: TV static from my 282.......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10931	From: HOGHEADHAT@AOL.COM	Date: 1/1/2001
Subject: unsubscribe
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10932	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 1/1/2001
Subject: S-Video
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10933	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 1/1/2001
Subject: S-Video
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10934	From: Robert Wight	Date: 1/2/2001
Subject: Paul's short movie
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10935	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 1/2/2001
Subject: Re: New list member and a question
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10936	From: JAMES SLEETH	Date: 1/2/2001
Subject: Tortoise switch machines
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10937	From: Al	Date: 1/2/2001
Subject: Re: Lou Baldi email
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10938	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 1/2/2001
Subject: Nichrome wire
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10939	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 1/2/2001
Subject: Tortoise switch machines
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10940	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 1/2/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 863
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10941	From: Peck	Date: 1/2/2001
Subject: Re: AF wheel gauging
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10942	From: Wayne and Alice Beachy	Date: 1/2/2001
Subject: Fw: Comments from Feedback Form
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10943	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 1/2/2001
Subject: City of Detroit Trolley
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10944	From: judy messinger	Date: 1/2/2001
Subject: Front Trucks-Another Problem!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10945	From: Scott Brown	Date: 1/2/2001
Subject: Re: Video
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10946	From: Scott Brown	Date: 1/2/2001
Subject: Greenberg Show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10947	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/2/2001
Subject: Re: Tortoise switch machines
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10948	From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade	Date: 1/2/2001
Subject: Loco Project Update
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10949	From: Tom Young	Date: 1/2/2001
Subject: Nichrome wire
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10950	From: Scott Holm	Date: 1/2/2001
Subject: Re: Front Trucks-Another Problem!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10951	From: Scott Holm	Date: 1/2/2001
Subject: Solvents
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10952	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 1/2/2001
Subject: Steam loco wear
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10953	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 1/2/2001
Subject: WWW.trainweb.org
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10954	From: John Simkovich	Date: 1/3/2001
Subject: www.trainweb.org
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10955	From: gpmlg@aol.com	Date: 1/3/2001
Subject: unsubscribe
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10956	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 1/3/2001
Subject: Motors
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10957	From: WNHOLCOMB@aol.com	Date: 1/3/2001
Subject: Re: Vacation
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10958	From: Bob Sylsbury	Date: 1/3/2001
Subject: Wide Radius ?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10959	From: John M	Date: 1/3/2001
Subject: Re: Wide Radius ?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10960	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 1/3/2001
Subject: Re: Motors
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10961	From: Scott Holm	Date: 1/3/2001
Subject: Ammeters
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10962	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 1/3/2001
Subject: Another MTHY Delay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10963	From: Rick {bAss-flyer} Evans	Date: 1/3/2001
Subject: The S-Trains list grows......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10964	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 1/3/2001
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10965	From: Bill Rigsby	Date: 1/3/2001
Subject: Baggage Cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10966	From: busyboy	Date: 1/3/2001
Subject: Re: AF wheel gauging
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10967	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/3/2001
Subject: Re: Wide Radius ?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10968	From: Peck	Date: 1/3/2001
Subject: Re: AF wheel gauging
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10969	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 1/3/2001
Subject: Wide Radius
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10970	From: loubaldi@aol.com	Date: 1/3/2001
Subject: Re: AF WHEEL GAUGE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10971	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 1/3/2001
Subject: Re: (unknown)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10972	From: Eugene Steffan	Date: 1/4/2001
Subject: [Fwd: [S-Trains] Re: Vacation]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10973	From: Scott Holm	Date: 1/4/2001
Subject: Micro-Mark
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10974	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 1/4/2001
Subject: Multimeters
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10975	From: Mark Preman	Date: 1/4/2001
Subject: January List and Mobile, AL GATS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10976	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 1/4/2001
Subject: Ammeters
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10977	From: Michael Greene	Date: 1/4/2001
Subject: Re: Ammeters
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10978	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 1/4/2001
Subject: ammeters
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10979	From: Victor Bereskin	Date: 1/4/2001
Subject: Baldwin Brushes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10980	From: Ktrdd@AOL.com	Date: 1/4/2001
Subject: AC Ammeters
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10981	From: SMITTY@tir.com	Date: 1/4/2001
Subject: Capacitance and grounds
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10982	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 1/4/2001
Subject: Re: ammeters
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10983	From: Peck	Date: 1/4/2001
Subject: Re: Wheel gauging, again
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10984	From: Ktrdd@AOL.com	Date: 1/4/2001
Subject: Ammeters
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10985	From: Peck	Date: 1/4/2001
Subject: Re: Pilot springs.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10986	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 1/4/2001
Subject: baggage cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10987	From: Tom Young	Date: 1/4/2001
Subject: Ammeter
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10988	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 1/4/2001
Subject: Springfield Show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10989	From: loubaldi@aol.com	Date: 1/4/2001
Subject: Re: AF WHEEL GAUGE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10990	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 1/4/2001
Subject: Re: baggage cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10991	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 1/5/2001
Subject: AC amp meters
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10992	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 1/5/2001
Subject: gauging wheels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10993	From: colin_olsen@hotmail.com	Date: 1/5/2001
Subject: Front End Coupler on an AF 322
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10994	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 1/5/2001
Subject: Re: AC amp meters
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10995	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/5/2001
Subject: Re: gauging wheels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10996	From: toby_loftus@mentor.com	Date: 1/5/2001
Subject: Switches and horns
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10997	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 1/5/2001
Subject: 2001 S-video...ammeters
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10998	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/5/2001
Subject: Re: Switches and horns
Group: S-Trains	Message: 10999	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 1/5/2001
Subject: AC Ammeter
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11000	From: Tom Stolte	Date: 1/5/2001
Subject: rumors
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11001	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/5/2001
Subject: Re: Pilot springs.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11002	From: Peck	Date: 1/5/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 866
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11003	From: S-Trains@egroups.com	Date: 1/5/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11004	From: Toyguy5344@aol.com	Date: 1/5/2001
Subject: Gilbert AF horn rework
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11005	From: SMITTY@tir.com	Date: 1/5/2001
Subject: switches and horns
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11006	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 1/5/2001
Subject: Re: Baggage Cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11007	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/5/2001
Subject: Gonna miss chat AGAIN!!! Auugh!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11008	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 1/6/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Springfield Show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11009	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 1/6/2001
Subject: 336 lenses?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11010	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/6/2001
Subject: Re: 336 lenses?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11011	From: joeawood@aol.com	Date: 1/6/2001
Subject: Front couplers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11012	From: W. Thomas Boussum	Date: 1/6/2001
Subject: Old decals.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11013	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 1/6/2001
Subject: 336 lenses/front coupler
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11014	From: SMITTY@tir.com	Date: 1/6/2001
Subject: plasticville parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11015	From: sigma@ecn.ab.ca	Date: 1/6/2001
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11016	From: judy messinger	Date: 1/6/2001
Subject: Repaints?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11017	From: Ktrdd@AOL.com	Date: 1/6/2001
Subject: Ammeters
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11018	From: Alan & Sherry Bennett	Date: 1/6/2001
Subject: Circus cutout
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11019	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 1/7/2001
Subject: Re: Ammeters
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11020	From: S-Trains@egroups.com	Date: 1/7/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11021	From: David Garber	Date: 1/7/2001
Subject: Sunday chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11022	From: gino restivo	Date: 1/7/2001
Subject: re; circus cutout
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11023	From: gino restivo	Date: 1/7/2001
Subject: Re: marker lens / jewels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11024	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 1/7/2001
Subject: Double heading knuckle Steamers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11025	From: Ktrdd@AOL.com	Date: 1/7/2001
Subject: Re: Ammeters
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11026	From: sigma@ecn.ab.ca	Date: 1/8/2001
Subject: Questions repeated
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11027	From: John DeFelice	Date: 1/8/2001
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11028	From: wayne broadhead	Date: 1/8/2001
Subject: Re: Double heading knuckle Steamers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11029	From: wayne broadhead	Date: 1/8/2001
Subject: Flyer fun
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11030	From: Dwight Lehnhoff	Date: 1/8/2001
Subject: Re: flyer fun
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11031	From: wayne broadhead	Date: 1/8/2001
Subject: Re: flyer fun
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11032	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 1/8/2001
Subject: weekend
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11033	From: Al	Date: 1/8/2001
Subject: Double Header
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11034	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 1/8/2001
Subject: questions repeated
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11035	From: wayned9@msn.com	Date: 1/8/2001
Subject: Ghost of American Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11036	From: Neil Trump	Date: 1/8/2001
Subject: That ebay item with a $55 shipping cost
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11037	From: johnbraker@webtv.net	Date: 1/8/2001
Subject: 771 stockyard
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11038	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 1/8/2001
Subject: Re: 771 stockyard
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11039	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 1/8/2001
Subject: Re: That ebay item with a $55 shipping cost
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11040	From: William H Trefts	Date: 1/9/2001
Subject: Traveling to Orlando, Florida
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11041	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 1/9/2001
Subject: Re: 771 stockyard
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11042	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 1/9/2001
Subject: Re: FLYER FUN
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11043	From: John DeFelice	Date: 1/9/2001
Subject: Hamburg, Gilbertsville,Nur Temple meets..........
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11044	From: tsbikes@trailsidebikes.com	Date: 1/9/2001
Subject: Phila. shows re:"John DeFelice"
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11045	From: wayne broadhead	Date: 1/9/2001
Subject: Re: FLYER FUN
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11046	From: rxman46321@aol.com	Date: 1/9/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 870
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11047	From: rxman46321@aol.com	Date: 1/9/2001
Subject: Doubleheading
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11048	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 1/9/2001
Subject: Re: Traveling to Orlando, Florida
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11049	From: John DeFelice	Date: 1/9/2001
Subject: Train meets
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11050	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 1/9/2001
Subject: copper brushes, original smoke fluid
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11051	From: Bob Sylsbury	Date: 1/9/2001
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11052	From: Bob Sylsbury	Date: 1/9/2001
Subject: Counter-clockwise....?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11053	From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade	Date: 1/9/2001
Subject: [Commercial] Newest S Structure Ready
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11054	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 1/9/2001
Subject: Ghost of American Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11055	From: jbs@misi.org	Date: 1/9/2001
Subject: Preserving Lichen
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11056	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 1/9/2001
Subject: counter clockwise
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11057	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 1/9/2001
Subject: S Scale Mogul from SSL&S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11058	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 1/9/2001
Subject: Re: copper brushes, original smoke fluid
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11059	From: russcalla@aol.com	Date: 1/9/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 870
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11060	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 1/9/2001
Subject: copper brushes, original smoke
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11061	From: WNHOLCOMB@aol.com	Date: 1/10/2001
Subject: Re: Cattle Car Repair
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11062	From: Rick {bAss-flyer} Evans	Date: 1/10/2001
Subject: Fwd: S gauge site
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11063	From: Wayne and Alice Beachy	Date: 1/10/2001
Subject: New ACSG pages
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11064	From: Tom Stolte	Date: 1/10/2001
Subject: New Decals from Oddballs Decals - N, S, HO & O scales
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11065	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 1/10/2001
Subject: WHAT THE????
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11066	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/10/2001
Subject: Re: WHAT THE????
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11067	From: gino restivo	Date: 1/10/2001
Subject: Re: Preserving Lichen
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11068	From: judy messinger	Date: 1/10/2001
Subject: Transformer repair?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11069	From: gino restivo	Date: 1/10/2001
Subject: Fw: [S-Trains] Re: Cattle Car Repair
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11070	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 1/10/2001
Subject: transformer repair?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11071	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/10/2001
Subject: Re: WHAT THE????
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11072	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/10/2001
Subject: Re: Transformer repair?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11073	From: William James	Date: 1/11/2001
Subject: tunnels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11074	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 1/11/2001
Subject: Preserving Lichen
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11075	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 1/11/2001
Subject: Re: tunnels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11076	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/11/2001
Subject: Re: tunnels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11077	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/11/2001
Subject: Re: Preserving Lichen
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11078	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/11/2001
Subject: Re: tunnels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11079	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/11/2001
Subject: [Fwd: looking for Huff n Puff kits]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11080	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 1/11/2001
Subject: Re: Preserving Lichen
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11081	From: Mark Preman	Date: 1/11/2001
Subject: Flyer Circus Cutouts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11082	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 1/11/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 872
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11083	From: Lee Johnson	Date: 1/11/2001
Subject: Re: Preserving Lichen
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11084	From: judy messinger	Date: 1/12/2001
Subject: Transformer Repair-Thanks!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11085	From: sigma@ecn.ab.ca	Date: 1/12/2001
Subject: Re: S Scale Mogul from SSL&S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11086	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 1/12/2001
Subject: Re: S Scale Mogul from SSL&S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11087	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 1/12/2001
Subject: Re: Web site correction
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11088	From: velapoldi@netcom.no	Date: 1/12/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] MOGUL
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11089	From: Novak, William	Date: 1/12/2001
Subject: Track Trip Replacement
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11090	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 1/12/2001
Subject: TRACK TRIP
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11091	From: judy messinger	Date: 1/12/2001
Subject: Transformer problems-Thanks!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11092	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/12/2001
Subject: Re: Track Trip Replacement
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11093	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/12/2001
Subject: Re: Track Trip Replacement
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11094	From: S-Trains@egroups.com	Date: 1/12/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11095	From: John	Date: 1/12/2001
Subject: continuous whistle on 312 tender please help
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11096	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 1/13/2001
Subject: NORTH PENN & NESHAMINY VALLEY WEBSITES
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11097	From: busyboy	Date: 1/13/2001
Subject: 312AW
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11098	From: Anita and Phil Johnson	Date: 1/13/2001
Subject: 322 Hudson Loose Wheel
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11099	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 1/13/2001
Subject: Re: 322 Hudson Loose Wheel
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11100	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 1/13/2001
Subject: [Fwd: [7x10minilathe] Re: Cutting 1/2" Foam (The soft open celled t
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11101	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 1/13/2001
Subject: hot wire foam cutter
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11102	From: Al Paolozzi	Date: 1/13/2001
Subject: Re: 312AW
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11103	From: Dick Kuepper	Date: 1/13/2001
Subject: Routing Homasote
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11104	From: busyboy	Date: 1/13/2001
Subject: Re: 312AW
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11105	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 1/13/2001
Subject: 322 Hudson loose wheel
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11106	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 1/13/2001
Subject: Unscheduled Chat Tonight
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11107	From: Doug	Date: 1/13/2001
Subject: Trains shows
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11108	From: Dick Kuepper	Date: 1/13/2001
Subject: ebay shenanigans
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11109	From: joe messinger	Date: 1/13/2001
Subject: Loose drive wheel
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11110	From: David Garber	Date: 1/13/2001
Subject: ebay shenanigans
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11111	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 1/13/2001
Subject: 322 Hudson loose wheel
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11112	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 1/13/2001
Subject: Track Trip Replacement
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11113	From: Joseph Haughney	Date: 1/13/2001
Subject: Showcase Switches
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11114	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 1/14/2001
Subject: Re: [[S-Trains] Trains shows]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11115	From: John	Date: 1/14/2001
Subject: Sorry Sorry re 312 whistle
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11116	From: busyboy	Date: 1/14/2001
Subject: American Flyer Smoke Repair Kits W/ Display
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11117	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/14/2001
Subject: Re: ebay shenanigans
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11118	From: Toyguy5344@aol.com	Date: 1/14/2001
Subject: Fwd: Ives parts(and more)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11119	From: donabrams	Date: 1/14/2001
Subject: Loose drivers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11120	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 1/14/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 875
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11121	From: Dick Kuepper	Date: 1/14/2001
Subject: Routing Homasote
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11122	From: Anita and Phil Johnson	Date: 1/14/2001
Subject: Loose Drivers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11123	From: S-Trains@egroups.com	Date: 1/14/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11124	From: Jim Carnes	Date: 1/14/2001
Subject: Re: ebay shenanigans
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11125	From: joeawood@aol.com	Date: 1/15/2001
Subject: electronic Talking station
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11126	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 1/15/2001
Subject: WIRING THE LAYOUT FOR THE 314AW
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11127	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 1/15/2001
Subject: Loose Rim/Wheel, eBay controller
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11128	From: TPDavis7@aol.com	Date: 1/15/2001
Subject: Re: electronic Talking station
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11129	From: scott griggs	Date: 1/15/2001
Subject: Re: American Flyer Smoke Repair Kits W/ Display
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11130	From: Scott Holm	Date: 1/15/2001
Subject: Panel Ammeters
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11131	From: dhmgt2@aol.com	Date: 1/15/2001
Subject: Digest Number 851
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11132	From: loubaldi@aol.com	Date: 1/15/2001
Subject: Re: electronic Talking station
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11133	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 1/15/2001
Subject: Routing Homasote
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11134	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 1/15/2001
Subject: Loose wheel on axle
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11135	From: Peck	Date: 1/15/2001
Subject: Re: Talking stations
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11136	From: toby_loftus@mentor.com	Date: 1/15/2001
Subject: Installing S-Trax
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11137	From: David Garber	Date: 1/15/2001
Subject: electronic Talking station
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11138	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 1/15/2001
Subject: Electronic Talking Station
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11139	From: William H Trefts	Date: 1/15/2001
Subject: Original Packaging materials-rolling stock
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11140	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 1/15/2001
Subject: Re: Showcase Switches
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11141	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/15/2001
Subject: Re: WIRING THE LAYOUT FOR THE 314AW
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11142	From: loubaldi@aol.com	Date: 1/15/2001
Subject: Loose Wheels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11143	From: Eugene Steffan	Date: 1/15/2001
Subject: Slightly off-topic
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11144	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/15/2001
Subject: Re: Slightly off-topic
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11145	From: jdefelice@nni.com	Date: 1/16/2001
Subject: Molding parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11146	From: jdefelice@nni.com	Date: 1/16/2001
Subject: Molding parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11147	From: Robert Hannon	Date: 1/16/2001
Subject: A.C. Gilbert S-Gauge Electrical Repair SURVEY
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11148	From: Dwight Lehnhoff	Date: 1/16/2001
Subject: survey
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11149	From: Robert Wight	Date: 1/16/2001
Subject: Re: A.C. Gilbert S-Gauge Electrical Repair SURVEY
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11150	From: Neil Trump	Date: 1/16/2001
Subject: A 360 or a 21927?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11151	From: Neil Trump	Date: 1/16/2001
Subject: A 360 or a 21927?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11152	From: Neil Trump	Date: 1/16/2001
Subject: Address for the 360/21927
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11153	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 1/16/2001
Subject: mat for cattle car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11154	From: William H Trefts	Date: 1/16/2001
Subject: Bob Hannon Tech Book Survey reply
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11155	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/16/2001
Subject: Re: Molding parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11156	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/16/2001
Subject: Re: Address for the 360/21927
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11157	From: Al	Date: 1/16/2001
Subject: Uploaded photos
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11158	From: Jeff	Date: 1/16/2001
Subject: Ebay 21927
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11159	From: Victor Bereskin	Date: 1/16/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 877
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11160	From: Peck	Date: 1/16/2001
Subject: Re: - Original Packaging materials-rolling stock
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11161	From: Peck	Date: 1/16/2001
Subject: Re: TS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11162	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/16/2001
Subject: Re: Ebay 21927
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11163	From: loubaldi@aol.com	Date: 1/16/2001
Subject: Re: Molding parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11164	From: bilfrazier@aol.com	Date: 1/16/2001
Subject: Re: Diagnostic & Repair...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11165	From: John	Date: 1/17/2001
Subject: please help re DC radio shack rectifier?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11166	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/17/2001
Subject: Re: please help re DC radio shack rectifier?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11167	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 1/17/2001
Subject: Re: eBay 360/21927
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11168	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 1/17/2001
Subject: Re: please help re DC radio shack rectifier?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11169	From: Al	Date: 1/17/2001
Subject: Ebay train listing
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11170	From: Rick {bAss-flyer} Evans	Date: 1/17/2001
Subject: The Ron V. Nixon photo site......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11171	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/17/2001
Subject: Re: please help re DC radio shack rectifier?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11172	From: Anita and Phil Johnson	Date: 1/17/2001
Subject: Uncouplers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11173	From: gino restivo	Date: 1/17/2001
Subject: Re: re DC radio shack rectifier? suppliers !
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11174	From: clarson700@aol.com	Date: 1/17/2001
Subject: Molding your own replacement
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11175	From: Wayne and Alice Beachy	Date: 1/17/2001
Subject: New ACSG photos
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11176	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 1/17/2001
Subject: Radio Shack Rectifiers!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11177	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 1/17/2001
Subject: Breaking Lionel News?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11178	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 1/17/2001
Subject: Re: Breaking Lionel News?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11179	From: JRobbie99@aol.com	Date: 1/18/2001
Subject: Re: A 360 or a 21927?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11180	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 1/18/2001
Subject: Breaking Lionel news
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11181	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 1/18/2001
Subject: Re: Breaking Lionel News?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11182	From: Roy Inman	Date: 1/18/2001
Subject: Lionel overseas/internet gosip?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11183	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 1/18/2001
Subject: Lionel Closing Plant, etc...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11184	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 1/18/2001
Subject: Original Article is at this URL
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11185	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 1/18/2001
Subject: For people wanting to start a model RR Mfg. co.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11186	From: Tom Stolte	Date: 1/18/2001
Subject: New Decals from Oddballs Decals - N, S, HO & O scales
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11187	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 1/18/2001
Subject: Re: For people wanting to start a model RR Mfg. co.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11188	From: Tom Robichaud	Date: 1/18/2001
Subject: Re: For people wanting to start a model RR Mfg. co.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11189	From: Peck	Date: 1/18/2001
Subject: Re: Repair Manual
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11190	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 1/18/2001
Subject: Help!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11191	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 1/18/2001
Subject: Re: For people wanting to start a model RR Mfg. co.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11192	From: John Foley	Date: 1/18/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Help!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11193	From: Dan Brindell	Date: 1/18/2001
Subject: Re: Lionel Closing Plant, etc...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11194	From: TPDavis7@aol.com	Date: 1/18/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Help!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11195	From: belairchevy@webtv.net	Date: 1/18/2001
Subject: Re: Breaking News At Lionel
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11196	From: Euell Johnson	Date: 1/18/2001
Subject: Re: Breaking Lionel News?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11197	From: Tom Robichaud	Date: 1/18/2001
Subject: Circus Music
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11198	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 1/18/2001
Subject: Re: Circus Music
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11199	From: scott griggs	Date: 1/18/2001
Subject: Re: Lionel Closing Plant, etc...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11200	From: Wayne Zebron	Date: 1/18/2001
Subject: please help re DC radio shack rectifier?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11201	From: Joseph R. Craig	Date: 1/18/2001
Subject: Need Advise regarding Flyer Rubber Roadbed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11202	From: Doug	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: Re: please help re DC radio shack rectifier?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11203	From: JRobbie99@aol.com	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: Re: Lionel Closing Plant, etc...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11204	From: Bente Velapoldi	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: Re: Lionel Closing Plant, etc...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11205	From: Michael Greene	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: Re: Circus Music
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11206	From: John Foley	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Help!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11207	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: Re: Lionel Closing Plant, etc...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11208	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: Re: Need Advise regarding Flyer Rubber Roadbed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11209	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: Re: please help re DC radio shack rectifier?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11210	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: survey
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11211	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: Loinel
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11212	From: Bente Velapoldi	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: Budd Cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11213	From: Bente Velapoldi	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: Budd Cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11214	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: Re: Circus Music
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11215	From: toby_loftus@mentor.com	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: Please, let's stick to trains!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11216	From: Tom Robichaud	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: Re: Circus Music
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11217	From: Dwight Lehnhoff	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: DC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11218	From: jdefelice@nni.com	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: Molding parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11219	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: Re: Please, let's stick to trains!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11220	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: Re: please help re DC radio shack rectifier?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11221	From: seahawkdan@aol.com	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: ridiculous ebay transaction
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11222	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: Re: Budd Cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11223	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: E-Bay Madness
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11224	From: David A. Highfield	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11225	From: Robert E. Yablonski	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 880
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11226	From: mvandiver2@aol.com	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11227	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: E-BAY HEADS UP
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11228	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: E-BAY HEADS UP
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11229	From: belairchevy@webtv.net	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: 22034 Transformer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11230	From: Scott Brown	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: ebay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11231	From: S-Trains@egroups.com	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11232	From: Euell Johnson	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: Re: Loinel
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11233	From: Ktrdd@AOL.com	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: AF Roadbed convert
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11234	From: scott griggs	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: The Real McCoy
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11235	From: Clifford Manning	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: repair
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11236	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: tender loving care
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11237	From: Robert Hannon	Date: 1/20/2001
Subject: A.C.Gilbert S-Gauge Electrical Component Survey : Status
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11238	From: Robert Hannon	Date: 1/20/2001
Subject: A.C. Gilbert S-Gauge Electrical Repair SURVEY ... Last Submittal
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11239	From: busyboy	Date: 1/20/2001
Subject: Re: Please, let's stick to trains!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11240	From: busyboy	Date: 1/20/2001
Subject: Re: E-BAY HEADS UP
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11241	From: busyboy	Date: 1/20/2001
Subject: Re: tender loving care
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11242	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 1/20/2001
Subject: Re: tender loving care
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11243	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 1/20/2001
Subject: Re: tender loving care
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11244	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 1/20/2001
Subject: Re: tender loving care
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11245	From: Jeff	Date: 1/20/2001
Subject: Re: tender loving care
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11246	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/20/2001
Subject: Re: A.C. Gilbert S-Gauge Electrical Repair SURVEY ... Last Submittal
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11247	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/20/2001
Subject: Re: tender loving care
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11248	From: SMITTY@tir.com	Date: 1/20/2001
Subject: tender loving care one more time
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11249	From: Nick and Becky Colleran	Date: 1/20/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 882
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11250	From: Rick {bAss-flyer} Evans	Date: 1/20/2001
Subject: Lehigh Valley Train Service (LVTS) liquid smoke
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11251	From: Robert Wight	Date: 1/20/2001
Subject: Lamp oil
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11252	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 1/20/2001
Subject: S-Video
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11253	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 1/20/2001
Subject: Re: Next Fall Get Together
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11254	From: JRobbie99@aol.com	Date: 1/20/2001
Subject: Re: Lehigh Valley Train Service (LVTS) liquid smoke
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11255	From: Gary McCullah	Date: 1/20/2001
Subject: Lionel Closure
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11256	From: Dwight Lehnhoff	Date: 1/20/2001
Subject: smoke fluid
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11257	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 1/20/2001
Subject: Re: S-Video
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11258	From: Mac	Date: 1/20/2001
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11259	From: Bob or Deb Guckian	Date: 1/20/2001
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11260	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 1/20/2001
Subject: Re: blatant F-3 promotion with jpegs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11261	From: The Reis's	Date: 1/20/2001
Subject: Re: Need Advise regarding Flyer Rubber Roadbed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11262	From: John Simkovich	Date: 1/20/2001
Subject: HO American Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11263	From: The Reis's	Date: 1/20/2001
Subject: American model Pennsy PA1's
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11264	From: belairchevy@webtv.net	Date: 1/20/2001
Subject: The dreaded Pikemaster
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11265	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/20/2001
Subject: blatant F-3 promotion with jpegs---WOW!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11266	From: busyboy	Date: 1/20/2001
Subject: American Flyer orig. service manual & parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11267	From: Bill Porter	Date: 1/21/2001
Subject: Model Engineering Works
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11268	From: busyboy	Date: 1/21/2001
Subject: Pikemaster
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11269	From: Scott Brown	Date: 1/21/2001
Subject: Re: A.C. Gilbert S-Gauge Electrical Repair SURVEY
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11270	From: Scott Brown	Date: 1/21/2001
Subject: Re: tender loving care
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11271	From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton	Date: 1/21/2001
Subject: Electrical repair manual
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11272	From: Thomas E Hillery	Date: 1/21/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 883
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11273	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 1/21/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] American model Pennsy PA1's
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11274	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 1/21/2001
Subject: Re:
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11275	From: Tom Rolfsmeyer	Date: 1/21/2001
Subject: Re: blatant F-3 promotion with jpegs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11276	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 1/21/2001
Subject: HO American Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11277	From: gino restivo	Date: 1/21/2001
Subject: Robert Hannon 's book / rewinding
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11278	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 1/21/2001
Subject: American Chrome
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11279	From: Rick {bAss-flyer} Evans	Date: 1/21/2001
Subject: Re: American Chrome
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11280	From: S-Trains@egroups.com	Date: 1/21/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11281	From: Ktrdd@AOL.com	Date: 1/21/2001
Subject: AF Roadbed convert
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11282	From: Ted Walton	Date: 1/21/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 883
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11283	From: Rick {bAss-flyer} Evans	Date: 1/21/2001
Subject: Dr. No's '57 Chevy by Johnny Lightning....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11284	From: tsbikes@trailsidebikes.com	Date: 1/21/2001
Subject: diesel horn generator
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11285	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/21/2001
Subject: Re: diesel horn generator
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11286	From: Al Paolozzi	Date: 1/21/2001
Subject: Re: American Chrome
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11287	From: cbrf@snet.net	Date: 1/21/2001
Subject: "book" survey
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11288	From: Al Paolozzi	Date: 1/21/2001
Subject: Re: American Chrome
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11289	From: Rick {bAss-flyer} Evans	Date: 1/21/2001
Subject: Re: American Chrome
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11290	From: Rick {bAss-flyer} Evans	Date: 1/21/2001
Subject: membership numbers.......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11291	From: McIlvaine, Robert	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: Re: DC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11292	From: art king	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: lionel lock's out employee's
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11293	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: "Repro" AF Accessories; Operating Cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11294	From: Roy Inman	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: Locked out Lionel
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11295	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: Lionel and promised AF production
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11296	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: Re: DC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11297	From: Dwight Lehnhoff	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: re rectifier chip
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11298	From: McIlvaine, Robert	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: Re: DC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11299	From: busyboy	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: I am the real Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11300	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: New enthusiasm??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11301	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: Re: re rectifier chip
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11302	From: Rick {bAss-flyer} Evans	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: Re: DC & Realism.....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11303	From: busyboy	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: American Flyer 313 PRR Steamer EX+
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11304	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: "Repro" AF Accessories, Operating Cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11305	From: John Foley	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: Fwd: Tours at NASG Steamtown Convention
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11306	From: Rick {bAss-flyer} Evans	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: Re: American Flyer 313 PRR Steamer EX+
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11307	From: Rick {bAss-flyer} Evans	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: Re: "Repro" AF Accessories, Operating Cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11308	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: smoke fluid
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11309	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: Re: "Repro" AF Accessories, Operating Cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11310	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: Re: smoke fluid
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11311	From: JRobbie99@aol.com	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: Re: American Flyer 313 PRR Steamer EX+
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11312	From: scott griggs	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: Re: "Repro" AF Accessories; Operating Cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11313	From: scott griggs	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: Re: lionel lock's out employee's (WHAT IS YOUR SOURCE?)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11314	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: Re: Lionel and promised AF production
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11315	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: Re: "Repro" AF Accessories; Operating Cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11316	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: Re: "Repro" AF Accessories, Operating Cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11317	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: Re: "Repro" AF Accessories, Operating Cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11318	From: belairchevy@webtv.net	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: A Story From The Lionel Factory
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11319	From: Robert Wight	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: SMOKE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11320	From: JRobbie99@aol.com	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: Re: "Repro" AF Accessories; Operating Cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11321	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: Auto Carriers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11322	From: The Reis's	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: [S-Trains] American Chrome
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11323	From: The Reis's	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Auto Carriers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11324	From: russcalla@aol.com	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 886
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11325	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: AF Reproductions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11326	From: scott griggs	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: More on the Lionel Plant
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11327	From: Victor Bereskin	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: Lionel's Problems
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11328	From: IronHorse	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: New username
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11329	From: Robert Wight	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: Smoke Link
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11330	From: John Foley	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: Steamtown 2001 Registration forms
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11331	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: New username
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11332	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 1/23/2001
Subject: Re: "Repro" AF Accessories, Operating Cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11333	From: Rick {bAss-flyer} Evans	Date: 1/23/2001
Subject: Re: More on the Lionel Plant
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11334	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 1/23/2001
Subject: SMOKE FLUID
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11335	From: Doug	Date: 1/23/2001
Subject: Re: smoke fluid
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11336	From: Robert Wight	Date: 1/23/2001
Subject: lionel
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11337	From: John Foley	Date: 1/23/2001
Subject: Steamtown Forms
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11338	From: Bob Sylsbury	Date: 1/23/2001
Subject: Dover,NJ. show....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11339	From: Peck	Date: 1/23/2001
Subject: Re: FLyonel '01
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11340	From: scott griggs	Date: 1/23/2001
Subject: Re: "Repro" AF Accessories, Operating Cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11341	From: SMITTY@tir.com	Date: 1/23/2001
Subject: "excellent condition, but........."
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11342	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 1/23/2001
Subject: Re: Container arrives (blatant SHS commercialism)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11343	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 1/23/2001
Subject: Re: FLyonel '01
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11344	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 1/23/2001
Subject: Re: "Repro" AF Accessories, Operating Cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11345	From: joe messinger	Date: 1/23/2001
Subject: Smoke
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11346	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 1/23/2001
Subject: Dover, NJ Show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11347	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 1/23/2001
Subject: Re: FLyonel '01
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11348	From: Robert Wight	Date: 1/23/2001
Subject: Re: Smoke formula
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11349	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 1/23/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 868
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11350	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 1/23/2001
Subject: Re: Smoke formula
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11351	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 1/23/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 868
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11352	From: busyboy	Date: 1/23/2001
Subject: Re: "Repro" AF Accessories, Operating Cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11353	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 1/23/2001
Subject: REPO ETC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11354	From: busyboy	Date: 1/23/2001
Subject: Repros
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11355	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 1/23/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 877
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11356	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 1/23/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 875
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11357	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 1/23/2001
Subject: Repros
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11358	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 1/23/2001
Subject: loose steam loco wheels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11359	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Re: REPO ETC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11360	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Re: Repros
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11361	From: mvandiver2@aol.com	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11362	From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Heading to the Timonium, MD Show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11363	From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Re: Heading to the Timonium, MD Show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11364	From: ALLAN V EISENHAUR	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Smoke
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11365	From: Robert Wight	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Lionel (AF)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11366	From: Roy Inman	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: More repros...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11367	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Repros etc.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11368	From: wayne broadhead	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Re: Repros etc.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11369	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Re: Repros etc.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11370	From: John Foley	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Convention change
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11371	From: tom.druga@saraleedirect.com	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: New Catalog
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11372	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: New LTI catalog pix
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11373	From: Scott Holm	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Re: Lionel (AF)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11374	From: JRobbie99@aol.com	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Re: Repros etc.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11375	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Lionel(AF)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11376	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: see Lionel's Gabe, s'mill, S'board coaler reissues
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11377	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: correction to Lionel Gabe
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11378	From: John Foley	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Computers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11379	From: Robert Wight	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Lionel Response
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11380	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Re: Repros
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11381	From: Scott Holm	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Repros
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11382	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Re: "Repro" AF Accessories, Operating Cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11383	From: Neil Trump	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Lionels repro offerings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11384	From: busyboy	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Repros
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11385	From: busyboy	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Re: Lionel(AF)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11386	From: Larry Huff	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: S Gagian
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11387	From: busyboy	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Flyer from LTI
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11388	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11389	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Re: S Gagian
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11390	From: John Foley	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: NASG Convention hotel
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11391	From: Roy Inman	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Lionel repros: take 147
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11392	From: Gary Chidester	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Stockyard help
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11393	From: David A. Highfield	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: DC TRANSFORMER?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11394	From: plotnick	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Repros are ok, but I want new accesories!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11395	From: joe messinger	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Smoke
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11396	From: scott griggs	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Re: Repros etc.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11397	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Re: Repros etc.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11398	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Flyin'L Accessories
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11399	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Re: [showcaseline] Digest Number 101
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11400	From: Rick {bAss-flyer} Evans	Date: 1/25/2001
Subject: Lionel catalog.....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11401	From: scott griggs	Date: 1/25/2001
Subject: Re: Flyin'L Accessories
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11402	From: TPDavis7@aol.com	Date: 1/25/2001
Subject: Re: DC TRANSFORMER?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11403	From: Jack Sink	Date: 1/25/2001
Subject: Coal Loader
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11404	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 1/25/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer from LTI
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11405	From: rhoffman@innernet.net	Date: 1/25/2001
Subject: SSL&S Mogul
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11406	From: rhoffman@innernet.net	Date: 1/25/2001
Subject: SSL&S Mogul
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11407	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 1/25/2001
Subject: OK, so who out there
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11408	From: Rick {bAss-flyer} Evans	Date: 1/25/2001
Subject: Cancel my MTH Gabe.......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11409	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 1/25/2001
Subject: Cancel my MTH Gabe
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11410	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 1/25/2001
Subject: Thoughts on lastest Lionel/Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11411	From: loubaldi@aol.com	Date: 1/25/2001
Subject: 8 or 7 Items
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11412	From: Bob Sylsbury	Date: 1/25/2001
Subject: Any thoughts....?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11413	From: Bob Sylsbury	Date: 1/25/2001
Subject: Posting Question......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11414	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/25/2001
Subject: Re: Posting Question......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11415	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 1/25/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 889
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11416	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 1/25/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 890
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11417	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 1/25/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 890
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11418	From: Peck	Date: 1/25/2001
Subject: Re: '01 AF
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11419	From: max meise	Date: 1/25/2001
Subject: Re: Cancel my MTH Gabe.......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11420	From: Roy Inman	Date: 1/25/2001
Subject: Lionel cat/ take 250...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11421	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/26/2001
Subject: obsoleteness, Cheaper stuff AFTER you buy, etc. (mostly humor)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11422	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 1/26/2001
Subject: Yahoo Conversion of eGroups
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11423	From: joestrainrepair@yahoo.com	Date: 1/26/2001
Subject: Yahoo! Auto Response
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11424	From: Robert Wight	Date: 1/26/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 890
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11425	From: sigma@ecn.ab.ca	Date: 1/26/2001
Subject: Re: prototypes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11426	From: Alex	Date: 1/26/2001
Subject: TEST - disregard - delete
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11427	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/26/2001
Subject: Fw: VIRUS WARNING FROM MICROSOFT & MCAFEE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11428	From: Dave0616@aol.com	Date: 1/26/2001
Subject: Smoker Repair
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11429	From: Scott Holm	Date: 1/26/2001
Subject: Re: Fw: VIRUS WARNING FROM MICROSOFT & MCAFEE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11430	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/26/2001
Subject: Re: VIRUS WARNING FROM MICROSOFT & MCAFEE--HOAX! AUUGH!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11431	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 1/26/2001
Subject: Sunday chat??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11432	From: John Foley	Date: 1/26/2001
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11433	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 1/26/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11434	From: S-Trains@egroups.com	Date: 1/26/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11435	From: John Foley	Date: 1/26/2001
Subject: Convention Hotels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11436	From: Jim Hannawald	Date: 1/26/2001
Subject: Switches
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11437	From: Rick Evans	Date: 1/26/2001
Subject: Yahoooooooooo! Groups.....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11438	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/26/2001
Subject: Re: Sunday chat??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11439	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/26/2001
Subject: Re: Switches
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11440	From: Rick Evans	Date: 1/26/2001
Subject: Re: Yahoooooooooo! Groups.....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11441	From: Rick Evans	Date: 1/26/2001
Subject: Sunday night chat.....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11442	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/26/2001
Subject: Re: Switches
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11443	From: busyboy	Date: 1/26/2001
Subject: Fw: American Flyer Smoke Repair Kits W/ Display
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11444	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 1/26/2001
Subject: NEW ADDRESS TEST
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11445	From: pdwrr@nac.net	Date: 1/26/2001
Subject: Need help finding old S Gaugian Magazine
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11447	From: Trbngs@cs.com	Date: 1/27/2001
Subject: Re: Need help finding old S Gaugian Magazine
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11448	From: Rick Evans	Date: 1/27/2001
Subject: Re: Need help finding old S Gaugian Magazine
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11449	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 1/27/2001
Subject: Re: prototypes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11450	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 1/27/2001
Subject: Re: prototypes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11451	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 1/27/2001
Subject: track trips
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11452	From: busyboy	Date: 1/27/2001
Subject: Fakes on e-Bay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11453	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 1/27/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer from LTI
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11454	From: Bill Porter	Date: 1/27/2001
Subject: Test - I hate Yahoo
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11455	From: Victor Bereskin	Date: 1/27/2001
Subject: Some more takes on the Lionel offerings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11456	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 1/27/2001
Subject: AUTO TRANSPORT
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11457	From: Jacques Ollivier	Date: 1/27/2001
Subject: trainpoor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11458	From: Wayne Grinnell	Date: 1/27/2001
Subject: Smoke
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11459	From: John Denholm	Date: 1/28/2001
Subject: Loco convert to DC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11460	From: The_maurers	Date: 1/28/2001
Subject: Walthers Instant Horizons
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11461	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 1/28/2001
Subject: Test Message
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11462	From: Bob	Date: 1/28/2001
Subject: NOT going to make it.......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11463	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 1/28/2001
Subject: Re: Some more takes on the Lionel offerings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11464	From: Bob	Date: 1/28/2001
Subject: Which set ?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11465	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 1/28/2001
Subject: Re: Smoke
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11466	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 1/28/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 892
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11467	From: Rick Evans	Date: 1/28/2001
Subject: Do-it-yourself network....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11468	From: S-Trains@egroups.com	Date: 1/28/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11469	From: Peck	Date: 1/28/2001
Subject: Re: Lnl vs MTH
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11470	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 1/28/2001
Subject: do it yourself
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11471	From: art king	Date: 1/28/2001
Subject: canceling MTH
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11472	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 1/28/2001
Subject: cancelling MTH
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11473	From: Rick Evans	Date: 1/28/2001
Subject: MTH Stuff......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11474	From: Ross	Date: 1/28/2001
Subject: MTH TAD
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11475	From: Cheri221@aol.com	Date: 1/28/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 893
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11476	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/28/2001
Subject: Re: Loco convert to DC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11477	From: Eugene Steffan	Date: 1/28/2001
Subject: Gabe
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11478	From: Al Paolozzi	Date: 1/28/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 892
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11479	From: Alan Evans	Date: 1/28/2001
Subject: Spring S Spree is coming!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11480	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 1/29/2001
Subject: Re: Yahoo conversion
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11481	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 1/29/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 893
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11482	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/29/2001
Subject: MTH & L Gabe differences
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11483	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 1/29/2001
Subject: Transformers Summary
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11484	From: finerty, paul	Date: 1/29/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 894
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11485	From: Roy Inman	Date: 1/29/2001
Subject: Re: MTH Stuff......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11486	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 1/29/2001
Subject: Re: Money up front
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11487	From: Scott Brown	Date: 1/29/2001
Subject: MTH/Lionel Accessories
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11488	From: russcalla@aol.com	Date: 1/29/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 894
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11489	From: Robert Hannon	Date: 1/29/2001
Subject: A.C. Gilbert S-Gauge Electrical Repair SURVEY ... Continuing
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11490	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 1/29/2001
Subject: Re: MTH Stuff......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11491	From: gino restivo	Date: 1/29/2001
Subject: Re: book not out ,
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11492	From: Larry Evoskis	Date: 1/30/2001
Subject: Tube Cages
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11493	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 1/30/2001
Subject: Re: MTH/Lionel Accessories
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11494	From: loubaldi@aol.com	Date: 1/30/2001
Subject: Rivet
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11495	From: Scott Holm	Date: 1/30/2001
Subject: Re: MTH Stuff......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11496	From: Scott Holm	Date: 1/30/2001
Subject: Lionel/MTH
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11497	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/30/2001
Subject: Re: Lionel/MTH
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11498	From: aztecfan@yahoo.com	Date: 1/30/2001
Subject: ERTL Carnival
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11499	From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade	Date: 1/30/2001
Subject: Back from MD - New Locos Arrived.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11500	From: aztecfan@yahoo.com	Date: 1/30/2001
Subject: AM SP Observation Car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11501	From: Tom Stolte	Date: 1/30/2001
Subject: New Decals from Oddballs Decals - N, S, HO & O scales
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11502	From: Rick Evans	Date: 1/30/2001
Subject: Re: Venting & Stiffing.......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11504	From: bilfrazier@aol.com	Date: 1/30/2001
Subject: Re: Rectiformer tube cage
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11505	From: SMITTY@tir.com	Date: 1/30/2001
Subject: MTH Stuff by Chris Burger
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11506	From: John Foley	Date: 1/30/2001
Subject: NASG Convention Hotels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11507	From: John Foley	Date: 1/30/2001
Subject: Viris Warning
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11508	From: Bill Lane	Date: 1/30/2001
Subject: John Hall Decals
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11509	From: Tom Rolfsmeyer	Date: 1/30/2001
Subject: Pictures of the Gadsden Pacific Toy Train Operating Museum.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11510	From: Robert Hannon	Date: 1/30/2001
Subject: A.C. Gilbert S-Gauge Electrical Repair SURVEY
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11511	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/31/2001
Subject: Re: A.C. Gilbert S-Gauge Electrical Repair SURVEY
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11512	From: Robert Hannon	Date: 1/31/2001
Subject: SURVEY: Two-Timers!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11513	From: Mark Preman	Date: 1/31/2001
Subject: American Flyer Trains For Sale-February
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11514	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 1/31/2001
Subject: Re: Lionel/MTH
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11515	From: Rick Evans	Date: 1/31/2001
Subject: Decal removal....How?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11516	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 1/31/2001
Subject: posting pictures to yahoogroups
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11517	From: david s garber	Date: 1/31/2001
Subject: congratulations:
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11518	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 2/1/2001
Subject: New poll for S-Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11519	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 2/1/2001
Subject: decal removal, decals on chrome
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11520	From: ALLAN V EISENHAUR	Date: 2/1/2001
Subject: MTH/Lionel Accessories
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11521	From: Robert Wight	Date: 2/1/2001
Subject: Re: decal removal, decals on chrome
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11522	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/1/2001
Subject: First "Early Buy" Prices for Big L AF
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11523	From: Robert Hannon	Date: 2/1/2001
Subject: Survey Automator: Thanks.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11524	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 2/1/2001
Subject: 21014 vs. 21084
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11525	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 2/1/2001
Subject: Re: Survey Automator: Thanks.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11526	From: Rick Evans	Date: 2/1/2001
Subject: Re: 21014 vs. 21084
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11527	From: Dave0616@aol.com	Date: 2/1/2001
Subject: Re: 21014 vs. 21084
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11528	From: Roy Inman	Date: 2/1/2001
Subject: Removed decals.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11529	From: Rick Evans	Date: 2/1/2001
Subject: Johnny Lightning's Chevys.......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11530	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 2/1/2001
Subject: Decision on Lionel Move
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11531	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 2/1/2001
Subject: Okie-Dokie...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11532	From: Doug	Date: 2/2/2001
Subject: Slightly off topic
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11533	From: Gerry Evans	Date: 2/2/2001
Subject: Re: Okie-Dokie...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11534	From: Jerry Riechert	Date: 2/2/2001
Subject: Franklin repair questions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11535	From: Alan Evans	Date: 2/2/2001
Subject: S Scale cars for sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11536	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 2/2/2001
Subject: Re: Slightly off topic
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11537	From: Rick Evans	Date: 2/2/2001
Subject: Re: Franklin repair questions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11538	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 2/2/2001
Subject: Franklin repair questions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11539	From: Rick Evans	Date: 2/2/2001
Subject: Fwd: RE: [toytrains] LVTS Smoke fluid....Gone??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11540	From: Rick Evans	Date: 2/2/2001
Subject: Re: Franklin repair questions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11541	From: david s garber	Date: 2/2/2001
Subject: LTVS smk.fluid
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11542	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 2/2/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 898
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11543	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 2/2/2001
Subject: Re: Locomotive # 21014
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11544	From: Jeff	Date: 2/2/2001
Subject: Anyone deal with this outfit?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11545	From: not2lance@yahoo.com	Date: 2/2/2001
Subject: Hudson tender truck repair
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11546	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 2/2/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11547	From: Tom Stolte	Date: 2/2/2001
Subject: New Decals from Oddballs Decals - N, S, HO & O scales
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11548	From: Ben Kronenwetter	Date: 2/2/2001
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11549	From: Rick Evans	Date: 2/2/2001
Subject: Fwd: Re: editorial or poetic license...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11550	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 2/3/2001
Subject: Re: Okie Dokie...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11552	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 2/3/2001
Subject: Sheesh...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11553	From: David	Date: 2/3/2001
Subject: Re: Locomotive # 21014
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11554	From: Gerry Evans	Date: 2/3/2001
Subject: Re: Sheesh...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11555	From: donabrams	Date: 2/3/2001
Subject: Smoke, Fog, now Vapor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11556	From: Jim Carnes	Date: 2/3/2001
Subject: Re: Smoke, Fog, now Vapor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11557	From: joe messinger	Date: 2/3/2001
Subject: Manufacturing dates?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11558	From: busyboy	Date: 2/3/2001
Subject: Re: Venting & Stiffing.......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11559	From: Jacques Ollivier	Date: 2/3/2001
Subject: smoke fluid
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11560	From: busyboy	Date: 2/3/2001
Subject: Re: Decal Removal
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11561	From: Rick Evans	Date: 2/3/2001
Subject: new, old, oringinal, whatever.......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11562	From: Jeff	Date: 2/3/2001
Subject: New flyer issues
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11563	From: Velapoldi's	Date: 2/3/2001
Subject: Unsubscribe
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11564	From: Jim Carnes	Date: 2/3/2001
Subject: AF 30B Transformer Variations
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11565	From: IronHorse	Date: 2/3/2001
Subject: Re: Smoke, Fog, now Vapor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11566	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 2/3/2001
Subject: Re: Decal Removal
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11567	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 2/3/2001
Subject: Mountaineer Freight
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11568	From: castironv8@aol.com	Date: 2/3/2001
Subject: S-Trains] new, old, oringinal, whatever
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11569	From: claimsboss@aol.com	Date: 2/3/2001
Subject: please delete me
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11570	From: Robert Wight	Date: 2/3/2001
Subject: Re: Smoke, Fog, now Vapor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11571	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 2/3/2001
Subject: Okayyy...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11572	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/3/2001
Subject: Re: Okayyy...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11573	From: busyboy	Date: 2/4/2001
Subject: Re: Okayyy...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11574	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 2/4/2001
Subject: Okayyy
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11575	From: Robert Wight	Date: 2/4/2001
Subject: Email address
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11576	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 2/4/2001
Subject: FREE RAIL
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11577	From: Rick Evans	Date: 2/4/2001
Subject: #779 oil drum loader........
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11578	From: David	Date: 2/4/2001
Subject: Re: #779 oil drum loader........
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11579	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 2/4/2001
Subject: FREE RAIL GONE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11580	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 2/4/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11581	From: mlmarmer@msn.com	Date: 2/4/2001
Subject: Reverse Unit Problem
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11582	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 2/4/2001
Subject: New file uploaded to S-Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11583	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 2/4/2001
Subject: New file uploaded to S-Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11584	From: Ted Weiler	Date: 2/4/2001
Subject: Making a consolidation out of the Flyer 0-8-0
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11585	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 2/4/2001
Subject: reverse unit problem
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11586	From: Jacques Ollivier	Date: 2/4/2001
Subject: Videos
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11587	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 2/4/2001
Subject: Re: Making a consolidation out of the Flyer 0-8-0
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11588	From: gino restivo	Date: 2/4/2001
Subject: re ; test mail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11589	From: Rick Evans	Date: 2/4/2001
Subject: What is it...??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11590	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 2/5/2001
Subject: New file uploaded to S-Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11591	From: busyboy	Date: 2/5/2001
Subject: What is it...??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11592	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 2/5/2001
Subject: Re: What is it...??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11593	From: busyboy	Date: 2/5/2001
Subject: Your notice on uploads
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11594	From: joe messinger	Date: 2/5/2001
Subject: pg. 107- TT Mag.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11595	From: Scott Holm	Date: 2/5/2001
Subject: Smoke fluid dropper bottles
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11596	From: busyboy	Date: 2/5/2001
Subject: Fluorescent lighting
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11597	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 2/5/2001
Subject: what is it?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11598	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 2/5/2001
Subject: sideframe repairs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11599	From: Rick Evans	Date: 2/5/2001
Subject: Re: what is it?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11600	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 2/5/2001
Subject: 21130 rev unit
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11601	From: Rick Evans	Date: 2/5/2001
Subject: Re: New file uploaded to S-Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11602	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 2/5/2001
Subject: videos
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11603	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 2/5/2001
Subject: What is it...??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11604	From: David	Date: 2/5/2001
Subject: Re: What is it...??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11605	From: wayne broadhead	Date: 2/5/2001
Subject: Re: What is it...??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11606	From: Peck	Date: 2/5/2001
Subject: Re: Lnl AF
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11607	From: Peck	Date: 2/5/2001
Subject: Re: fRANKLIN REPAIR
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11608	From: Peck	Date: 2/5/2001
Subject: Re: Franklin repair #2
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11609	From: Peck	Date: 2/5/2001
Subject: Re: LVTS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11610	From: Peck	Date: 2/5/2001
Subject: Re: rvs unit
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11611	From: Peck	Date: 2/5/2001
Subject: Re: Carnes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11612	From: Jeff	Date: 2/5/2001
Subject: thanks for the info everyone
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11613	From: Ktrdd@AOL.com	Date: 2/5/2001
Subject: 293 pilot wheel derails?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11614	From: Ktrdd@AOL.com	Date: 2/5/2001
Subject: Re: What is it...??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11615	From: Nick and Becky Colleran	Date: 2/5/2001
Subject: 779 and Reggie Carnes & 333's
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11616	From: Rogerw53@aol.com	Date: 2/5/2001
Subject: Mountaineer Freight set
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11617	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/5/2001
Subject: Re: Carnes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11618	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/5/2001
Subject: Re: What is it...??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11619	From: Jerry Riechert	Date: 2/5/2001
Subject: Re: Franklin Repair
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11620	From: Rick Evans	Date: 2/6/2001
Subject: Member update....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11621	From: Becker, Neil A	Date: 2/6/2001
Subject: MRC Dual Power 027 Transformers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11622	From: Eugene Steffan	Date: 2/6/2001
Subject: S vs Sn3
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11623	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 2/6/2001
Subject: Re: MRC Dual Power 027 Transformers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11624	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/6/2001
Subject: Re: S vs Sn3
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11625	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 2/6/2001
Subject: Re: S vs Sn3
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11626	From: dlehnhoff@hotmail.com	Date: 2/6/2001
Subject: MRC Dual pwr Transformer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11627	From: mlmarmer@msn.com	Date: 2/6/2001
Subject: 21130 Reverse Unit
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11628	From: mlmarmer@msn.com	Date: 2/6/2001
Subject: Reverse Unit Problem
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11629	From: mlmarmer@msn.com	Date: 2/6/2001
Subject: Email message
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11630	From: mlmarmer@msn.com	Date: 2/6/2001
Subject: testing
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11631	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 2/6/2001
Subject: New Lionel AF Items
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11632	From: Eugene Steffan	Date: 2/6/2001
Subject: S vs Sn3
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11633	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 2/6/2001
Subject: Lionel 2001 Book 1 Catalog
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11634	From: jfred4436@aol.com	Date: 2/6/2001
Subject: ???
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11635	From: Jacques Ollivier	Date: 2/6/2001
Subject: Carnes videos
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11636	From: finerty, paul	Date: 2/7/2001
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11637	From: busyboy	Date: 2/7/2001
Subject: Re: S vs Sn3
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11638	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/7/2001
Subject: MTH 2001 Vol 2 cat, intersting pic!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11639	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 2/7/2001
Subject: 5 ft gauge
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11640	From: david garber	Date: 2/7/2001
Subject: mth 2011
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11641	From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade	Date: 2/7/2001
Subject: Freight Car Clearance Sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11642	From: mlmarmer@msn.com	Date: 2/7/2001
Subject: Lighting
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11643	From: riechert@qwest.net	Date: 2/7/2001
Subject: LVTS smoke fluid
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11644	From: Tom Stolte	Date: 2/7/2001
Subject: Not happy with the new Yahoo look? Try this
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11645	From: dthomas@eznet.net	Date: 2/7/2001
Subject: 15 volt vs. 18 volt transformers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11646	From: neil.trump@bt.com	Date: 2/7/2001
Subject: MTH Lamps
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11647	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 2/7/2001
Subject: Re: 15 volt vs. 18 volt transformers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11648	From: Tom Stolte	Date: 2/7/2001
Subject: New Decals from Oddballs Decals - N, S, HO & O scales
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11649	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 2/7/2001
Subject: 21004????
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11650	From: Rick Evans	Date: 2/8/2001
Subject: Re: #779 oil drum loader........
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11651	From: erierailroad@aol.com	Date: 2/8/2001
Subject: ACE BOXCAR SHELLS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11652	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 2/8/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] MBTA
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11653	From: Russell Layton	Date: 2/8/2001
Subject: remove please
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11654	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 2/8/2001
Subject: 15 or 18 volt transformers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11655	From: Peck	Date: 2/8/2001
Subject: Re: MTH 580 lamps
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11656	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/9/2001
Subject: Sawmill Madness!!! count 'em TWO!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11657	From: joe messinger	Date: 2/9/2001
Subject: Connections?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11658	From: busyboy	Date: 2/9/2001
Subject: 15 or 18 volt transformers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11659	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 2/9/2001
Subject: Sawmills & such....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11660	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 2/9/2001
Subject: Re: 15 or 18 volt transformers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11661	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 2/9/2001
Subject: Re: 15 or 18 volt transformers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11662	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 2/9/2001
Subject: Re: 15 or 18 volt transformers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11663	From: David	Date: 2/9/2001
Subject: IP Access And Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11664	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 2/9/2001
Subject: Re: ACE BOXCAR SHELLS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11665	From: Scott Holm	Date: 2/9/2001
Subject: Re: heavier wire
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11666	From: Alex	Date: 2/9/2001
Subject: Re: heavier wire
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11667	From: Bill Porter	Date: 2/9/2001
Subject: Re: heavier wire
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11668	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 2/9/2001
Subject: Re: heavier wire
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11669	From: Ben Kronenwetter	Date: 2/9/2001
Subject: Subscribe
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11670	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 2/9/2001
Subject: 15 or 18 volt transformers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11671	From: Rick Evans	Date: 2/9/2001
Subject: JL's American Chrome.....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11672	From: busyboy	Date: 2/9/2001
Subject: 15 or 18 volt transformers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11673	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 2/9/2001
Subject: Wire size
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11674	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 2/9/2001
Subject: 15 0r 18 volt transformers/heavier wire
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11675	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/9/2001
Subject: Re: Sawmill Madness!!! count 'em TWO!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11676	From: starr007	Date: 2/9/2001
Subject: connector between engine and tender
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11677	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 2/9/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11678	From: gino restivo	Date: 2/9/2001
Subject: Re: Connections?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11679	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 2/9/2001
Subject: GATS SHOW
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11680	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/9/2001
Subject: MTH Sawmill picture correction!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11681	From: Scott Brown	Date: 2/10/2001
Subject: Voltage
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11682	From: Scott Brown	Date: 2/10/2001
Subject: Re: Voltage
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11683	From: Wayne and Alice Beachy	Date: 2/10/2001
Subject: Scale fire figures
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11684	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 2/10/2001
Subject: REBUILDING TRAIN WEBSITE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11685	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 2/10/2001
Subject: Layout wiring and transformer voltage
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11686	From: Rick Evans	Date: 2/10/2001
Subject: A simple question on glue......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11687	From: negative_pitch@hotmail.com	Date: 2/10/2001
Subject: 342AC broken bulb socket mount for headlight
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11688	From: joe messinger	Date: 2/10/2001
Subject: Boiler front/bulb socket fix
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11689	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 2/10/2001
Subject: GATS/REPORT
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11690	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 2/10/2001
Subject: New Feature
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11691	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 2/10/2001
Subject: Re: GATS/REPORT
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11692	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 2/10/2001
Subject: GATS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11693	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/10/2001
Subject: Re: New Feature
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11694	From: busyboy	Date: 2/10/2001
Subject: Ol' Gabe
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11695	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 2/11/2001
Subject: Re: GATS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11696	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 2/11/2001
Subject: Re: GATS/REPORT
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11697	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 2/11/2001
Subject: REVERSE IN BOILER 322 INSTRUCTION SHEETS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11698	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 2/11/2001
Subject: Dave Ewing
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11699	From: Rick Evans	Date: 2/11/2001
Subject: Parking at GAT shows.....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11700	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 2/11/2001
Subject: PARKING AT GATS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11701	From: Rick Evans	Date: 2/11/2001
Subject: Re: PARKING AT GATS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11702	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 2/11/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11703	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 2/11/2001
Subject: : Re: [S-Trains] GATS/REPORT
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11704	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 2/11/2001
Subject: Tonka Truck - 1:72 but looks good
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11705	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 2/11/2001
Subject: Re: PARKING AT GATS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11706	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 2/11/2001
Subject: Re: F-3 blatant commercialism
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11707	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 2/11/2001
Subject: American Flyer .# 8153,8154,8155
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11708	From: negative_pitch@hotmail.com	Date: 2/11/2001
Subject: Acid Core Solder!!!!!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11709	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 2/11/2001
Subject: Re: F-3 blatant commercialism
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11710	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 2/11/2001
Subject: Re: Acid Core Solder!!!!!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11711	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 2/11/2001
Subject: Re: American Flyer .# 8153,8154,8155
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11712	From: The Reis's	Date: 2/11/2001
Subject: Rex Gondolas and other cheap scale stuff for sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11713	From: The Reis's	Date: 2/11/2001
Subject: Re: American Flyer .# 8153,8154,8155
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11714	From: negative_pitch@hotmail.com	Date: 2/11/2001
Subject: Wanted LTI Chessie GP-20
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11715	From: negative_pitch@hotmail.com	Date: 2/11/2001
Subject: Re: American Flyer .# 8153,8154,8155
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11716	From: negative_pitch@hotmail.com	Date: 2/11/2001
Subject: Re: Acid Core Solder!!!!!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11717	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/11/2001
Subject: Re: Acid Core Solder!!!!!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11718	From: negative_pitch@hotmail.com	Date: 2/11/2001
Subject: Re: Acid Core Solder!!!!!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11719	From: gino restivo	Date: 2/12/2001
Subject: Re: REVERSE IN BOILER 322 INSTRUCTION SHEETS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11720	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 2/12/2001
Subject: Re: GATS/REPORT
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11721	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 2/12/2001
Subject: Re: American Flyer .# 8153,8154,8155
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11722	From: Rick Evans	Date: 2/12/2001
Subject: Re: PARKING AT GATS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11723	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 2/12/2001
Subject: Connectors
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11724	From: joe messinger	Date: 2/12/2001
Subject: Powder coat?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11725	From: negative_pitch@hotmail.com	Date: 2/12/2001
Subject: Re: American Flyer .# 8153,8154,8155
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11726	From: The Reis's	Date: 2/12/2001
Subject: Re: American Flyer .# 8153,8154,8155
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11727	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 2/12/2001
Subject: AF LTI UNMARKED BOXCAR????
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11728	From: Peck	Date: 2/12/2001
Subject: Re: California
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11729	From: Peck	Date: 2/12/2001
Subject: Re: Parts diagrams
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11730	From: david garber	Date: 2/12/2001
Subject: California
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11731	From: SMITTY@tir.com	Date: 2/12/2001
Subject: Re: Powder coat?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11732	From: garymccullah@usa.net	Date: 2/12/2001
Subject: Flyer? Metal Cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11733	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/12/2001
Subject: Pics from the Toy Show!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11734	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 2/13/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Industrial Rail hopper car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11735	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 2/13/2001
Subject: Re: California
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11736	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 2/13/2001
Subject: Re: American Flyer .# 8153,8154,8155
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11737	From: Hansen, Bruce x1383	Date: 2/13/2001
Subject: AF questions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11738	From: Peck	Date: 2/13/2001
Subject: Re: metal cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11739	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 2/13/2001
Subject: Re: metal cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11740	From: Peck	Date: 2/13/2001
Subject: Re: metal cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11741	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 2/13/2001
Subject: Rumor On MTH Coal Loader
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11742	From: kenwoodies@aol.com	Date: 2/13/2001
Subject: Re: MTH Coal Loader
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11743	From: toby_loftus@mentor.com	Date: 2/13/2001
Subject: S-Trax switches and knuckle couplers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11744	From: Jerry Riechert	Date: 2/13/2001
Subject: noisy Franklin
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11745	From: neil.trump@bt.com	Date: 2/13/2001
Subject: Broken cast steam chassis mounts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11746	From: bob.arnott@att.net	Date: 2/13/2001
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11747	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 2/13/2001
Subject: Re: Modern era
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11748	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 2/14/2001
Subject: Cheap People
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11749	From: busyboy	Date: 2/14/2001
Subject: Re: AF questions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11750	From: sgriggs@umich.edu	Date: 2/14/2001
Subject: Re: S-Trax switches and knuckle couplers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11751	From: Robert Wight	Date: 2/14/2001
Subject: Re: AF questions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11752	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 2/14/2001
Subject: AF questions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11753	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 2/14/2001
Subject: Re: S-Trax switches and knuckle couplers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11754	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 2/14/2001
Subject: Re: noisy Franklin
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11755	From: Nick and Becky Colleran	Date: 2/14/2001
Subject: B&O PA motors
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11756	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 2/14/2001
Subject: Loco Cam & Portable Layout (not mine)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11757	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 2/14/2001
Subject: Lost S-Video
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11758	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 2/14/2001
Subject: Smoke for AF Steamers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11759	From: neil.trump@bt.com	Date: 2/15/2001
Subject: Latest from MTH
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11760	From: busyboy	Date: 2/15/2001
Subject: Tonka
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11761	From: John Foley	Date: 2/15/2001
Subject: Lehigh Valley Models
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11762	From: Victor Bereskin	Date: 2/15/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 912
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11763	From: Dick Kuepper	Date: 2/15/2001
Subject: Never-Heard-Of Item
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11764	From: Ted R Larson	Date: 2/15/2001
Subject: Southern REX Gon
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11765	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 2/15/2001
Subject: Re: S-Trax switches and knuckle couplers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11766	From: garymccullah@usa.net	Date: 2/15/2001
Subject: Metal Cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11767	From: David	Date: 2/15/2001
Subject: Re: Never-Heard-Of Item
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11768	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 2/15/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Train Show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11769	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 2/16/2001
Subject: Autos
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11770	From: Rick Evans	Date: 2/16/2001
Subject: Time flies when yer having fun....!!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11771	From: Robert W. Jackson	Date: 2/16/2001
Subject: Metaphore
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11772	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 2/16/2001
Subject: Part number mystery
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11773	From: David	Date: 2/16/2001
Subject: Re: Part number mystery
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11774	From: Wayne and Alice Beachy	Date: 2/16/2001
Subject: Web Page Update
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11775	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 2/16/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11776	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 2/16/2001
Subject: Re: [showcaseline] East Coast Hobby Show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11777	From: Alex	Date: 2/16/2001
Subject: Re: [showcaseline] East Coast Hobby Show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11778	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 2/16/2001
Subject: Super armature
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11779	From: gino restivo	Date: 2/16/2001
Subject: Re: Part number mystery Uncovered
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11780	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 2/16/2001
Subject: Re: [showcaseline] East Coast Hobby Show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11781	From: rrusso4438@aol.com	Date: 2/17/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 914
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11782	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 2/17/2001
Subject: Re: PARKING AT GATS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11783	From: kasemu@neosoft.com	Date: 2/17/2001
Subject: 21004 AF Engine
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11784	From: n3jpu@erols.com	Date: 2/17/2001
Subject: Will a stock AF engine run on DC?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11785	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 2/17/2001
Subject: Re: Will a stock AF engine run on DC?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11786	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 2/18/2001
Subject: Golden Grain Elevator
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11787	From: Dick Kuepper	Date: 2/18/2001
Subject: Paint Spots on P'ville
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11788	From: gino restivo	Date: 2/18/2001
Subject: Re: 21004 . / parts #
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11789	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 2/18/2001
Subject: Paint spots on P'ville
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11790	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 2/18/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11791	From: Ted R Larson	Date: 2/18/2001
Subject: Fw: Re: Fw: Re: REX Gons
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11792	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 2/19/2001
Subject: Re: [S trains] Digest Number 916
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11793	From: Scott Brown	Date: 2/19/2001
Subject: Re: Hobby Surplus
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11794	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 2/19/2001
Subject: S GAUGE BY WEAVER
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11795	From: johnbraker@webtv.net	Date: 2/19/2001
Subject: mystic talking station # ?'s
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11796	From: Rick Evans	Date: 2/19/2001
Subject: Fun with trains on a rainy Calif. day.......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11797	From: gino restivo	Date: 2/19/2001
Subject: re; sound reproducer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11798	From: gino restivo	Date: 2/19/2001
Subject: re; hobby surplus , service parts list
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11799	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/19/2001
Subject: MTH Coal Loader, latest ship date
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11800	From: Bob	Date: 2/20/2001
Subject: Pulling Power.........
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11801	From: Trbngs@cs.com	Date: 2/20/2001
Subject: ATLAS "S" snap-track ??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11802	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 2/20/2001
Subject: Re: ATLAS "S" snap-track ??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11803	From: Scott Holm	Date: 2/20/2001
Subject: Re: MTH Coal Loader, latest ship date
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11804	From: M.McConnell	Date: 2/20/2001
Subject: Notes on Greenberg Show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11805	From: John Foley	Date: 2/20/2001
Subject: NASG Convention Hotels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11806	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 2/20/2001
Subject: Re: Fun with trains on a rainy Calif. day.......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11807	From: not2lance@yahoo.com	Date: 2/20/2001
Subject: Ace Trucks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11808	From: gino restivo	Date: 2/20/2001
Subject: RE; A.F. exploded views / part list etc ....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11809	From: gino restivo	Date: 2/20/2001
Subject: re ; a.f. service info ,
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11810	From: Rick Evans	Date: 2/21/2001
Subject: Private seller/buyer feedback on ebay...????
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11811	From: Rick Evans	Date: 2/21/2001
Subject: Re: Private seller/buyer feedback on ebay...????
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11812	From: Alex Sibbald	Date: 2/21/2001
Subject: 312AC Steam Locomotive
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11813	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 2/21/2001
Subject: Re: Ace Trucks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11814	From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade	Date: 2/21/2001
Subject: Re: Ace Trucks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11815	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 2/21/2001
Subject: Re: 312AC Steam Locomotive
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11816	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 2/21/2001
Subject: FREE TRAIN WEBSITES
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11817	From: Clay Buckage	Date: 2/21/2001
Subject: fall s-fest
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11818	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 2/21/2001
Subject: Smitty
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11819	From: paul gibson	Date: 2/21/2001
Subject: Railpub price list
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11820	From: joe messinger	Date: 2/21/2001
Subject: Water Tenders & Torpedoes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11821	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 2/21/2001
Subject: 312AC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11822	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 2/21/2001
Subject: Re: Ace Trucks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11823	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 2/21/2001
Subject: NP 491
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11824	From: Ktrdd@AOL.com	Date: 2/21/2001
Subject: Re: Water Tenders & Torpedoes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11825	From: Dan Brindell	Date: 2/21/2001
Subject: Re: Water Tenders & Torpedoes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11826	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 2/21/2001
Subject: Lehigh Valley Models
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11827	From: John Foley	Date: 2/21/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Lehigh Valley Models
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11828	From: Dennis Conway	Date: 2/21/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Lehigh Valley Models
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11829	From: busyboy	Date: 2/21/2001
Subject: Re: 312AC Steam Locomotive
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11830	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 2/21/2001
Subject: Track cleaning
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11831	From: Alex Sibbald	Date: 2/21/2001
Subject: Re: 312AC Steam Locomotive
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11832	From: Rick Evans	Date: 2/22/2001
Subject: Re: Track cleaning
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11833	From: Doug	Date: 2/22/2001
Subject: Re: Track cleaning
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11834	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 2/22/2001
Subject: Ace Trucks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11835	From: Eugene Steffan	Date: 2/22/2001
Subject: S Spree 2001
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11836	From: W. Thomas Boussum	Date: 2/22/2001
Subject: Thanks.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11837	From: Douglass Allen	Date: 2/22/2001
Subject: S-Fest
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11838	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/22/2001
Subject: Re: Track cleaning
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11839	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 2/22/2001
Subject: LTI diesel chassis wear
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11840	From: dlehnhoff@hotmail.com	Date: 2/22/2001
Subject: Growling engine
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11841	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 2/22/2001
Subject: 312AC cycling
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11842	From: Trbngs@cs.com	Date: 2/22/2001
Subject: Club newsletters...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11843	From: Neil Trump	Date: 2/22/2001
Subject: Re: LTI diesel chassis wear
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11844	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 2/22/2001
Subject: LTI chassis wear
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11845	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 2/22/2001
Subject: TRACK CLEANING
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11846	From: BENJAMIN PERRY	Date: 2/22/2001
Subject: TEST
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11847	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 2/22/2001
Subject: #728 and #26748 Re-railers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11848	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/22/2001
Subject: Re: #728 and #26748 Re-railers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11849	From: David	Date: 2/23/2001
Subject: Re: #728 and #26748 Re-railers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11850	From: Gerry Evans	Date: 2/23/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Giving credit where credit is due.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11851	From: Gary.L.Ippolito@clev.frb.org	Date: 2/23/2001
Subject: Giving credit where credit is due.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11852	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 2/23/2001
Subject: Re: LTI diesel chassis wear
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11853	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 2/23/2001
Subject: Crossing Gate-Bell Danger Signal
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11854	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 2/23/2001
Subject: 472
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11855	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 2/23/2001
Subject: BOXCAR???
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11856	From: David	Date: 2/23/2001
Subject: Re: 472
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11857	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 2/23/2001
Subject: Re: 472
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11858	From: Tom Stolte	Date: 2/23/2001
Subject: New Decals from Oddballs Decals - N, S, HO & O scales
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11859	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 2/23/2001
Subject: LTI Chassis wear
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11860	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 2/23/2001
Subject: 'Syndrome' article in S-Gaugian
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11861	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 2/23/2001
Subject: Track Cleaning
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11862	From: Doug	Date: 2/23/2001
Subject: Re: Track Cleaning
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11863	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 2/23/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11864	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/23/2001
Subject: Re: 'Syndrome' article in S-Gaugian
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11865	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 2/23/2001
Subject: syndrome
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11866	From: Dick Kuepper	Date: 2/23/2001
Subject: Plasticville paint spots
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11867	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 2/23/2001
Subject: Re: Demographics/distribution
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11868	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 2/23/2001
Subject: Animated Coach
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11869	From: Al Paolozzi	Date: 2/23/2001
Subject: Re: Animated Coach
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11870	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 2/24/2001
Subject: 'Syndrome' article in S-Gaugian
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11871	From: Peck	Date: 2/24/2001
Subject: Re: Kreft
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11872	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 2/24/2001
Subject: New file uploaded to S-Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11873	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 2/24/2001
Subject: S Signal Tower
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11874	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 2/24/2001
Subject: "The Rock" decals
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11875	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 2/24/2001
Subject: looking for AF Gondola shells and others
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11876	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 2/24/2001
Subject: retrofitting trucks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11877	From: busyboy	Date: 2/24/2001
Subject: MIB track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11878	From: busyboy	Date: 2/24/2001
Subject: Musings on motor and gear wear
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11879	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 2/24/2001
Subject: musings on...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11880	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 2/24/2001
Subject: Baldwin Locomotive 21801
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11881	From: Bill Clark	Date: 2/24/2001
Subject: Pictures from Gene Kelley's Layout
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11882	From: Euell Johnson	Date: 2/24/2001
Subject: Re: Pictures from Gene Kelley's Layout
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11883	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 2/24/2001
Subject: Re: retrofitting trucks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11884	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 2/24/2001
Subject: : retrofitting trucks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11885	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 2/24/2001
Subject: Re: #728 and #26748 Re-railers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11886	From: John Denholm	Date: 2/24/2001
Subject: A-F Trucks & Couplers Please Help
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11887	From: belairchevy@webtv.net	Date: 2/24/2001
Subject: AF 20730
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11888	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 2/24/2001
Subject: Chassis wanted
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11889	From: Rick Evans	Date: 2/24/2001
Subject: Faster in reverse......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11890	From: not2lance@yahoo.com	Date: 2/24/2001
Subject: Axle bushings for PA diesels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11891	From: donabrams	Date: 2/24/2001
Subject: Greg Kreft
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11892	From: John Denholm	Date: 2/24/2001
Subject: retrofitting Downs trucks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11893	From: joe messinger	Date: 2/24/2001
Subject: Faster -in- reverse
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11894	From: Rick Evans	Date: 2/24/2001
Subject: Re: Faster -in- reverse
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11895	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 2/24/2001
Subject: faster in reverse
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11896	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 2/24/2001
Subject: Re: Faster in reverse
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11897	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/24/2001
Subject: Re: #728 and #26748 Re-railers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11898	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/24/2001
Subject: Re: Axle bushings for PA diesels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11899	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 2/24/2001
Subject: Faster in Reverse
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11900	From: Rick Evans	Date: 2/25/2001
Subject: eliminating the reverse unit.....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11901	From: Bob	Date: 2/25/2001
Subject: S.H.S. WINS......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11902	From: Bob	Date: 2/25/2001
Subject: Wire size.....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11903	From: busyboy	Date: 2/25/2001
Subject: Re: eliminating the reverse unit.....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11904	From: joe messinger	Date: 2/25/2001
Subject: Reverse Switches?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11905	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/25/2001
Subject: Re: Reverse Switches?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11906	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 2/25/2001
Subject: Faster in Forward!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11907	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 2/25/2001
Subject: All Aboard Panel Size?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11908	From: gunrjoe@aol.com	Date: 2/25/2001
Subject: access to yahoo
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11909	From: David	Date: 2/25/2001
Subject: Re: All Aboard Panel Size?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11910	From: Rick Evans	Date: 2/25/2001
Subject: 290 reverse unit......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11911	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 2/25/2001
Subject: refacing commutators
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11912	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 2/25/2001
Subject: Re: Wire size.....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11913	From: Ktrdd@AOL.com	Date: 2/25/2001
Subject: Re: eliminating the reverse unit.....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11914	From: John Foley	Date: 2/25/2001
Subject: Downs Model Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11915	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 2/25/2001
Subject: Gene Kelley's Layout
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11916	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 2/25/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11917	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 2/25/2001
Subject: Re: eliminating the reverse unit.....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11918	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/25/2001
Subject: reverse unit tabs: WAS eliminating the reverse unit.....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11919	From: Robert Wight	Date: 2/25/2001
Subject: Reverse Unit Tabs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11920	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 2/25/2001
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11921	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 2/25/2001
Subject: Reverse vs fwd
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11922	From: Ktrdd@AOL.com	Date: 2/25/2001
Subject: Re: reverse unit tabs: WAS eliminating the reverse unit.....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11923	From: IronHorse	Date: 2/25/2001
Subject: Camera on board questions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11924	From: IronHorse	Date: 2/25/2001
Subject: "S" guage museum fund raiser.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11925	From: IronHorse	Date: 2/25/2001
Subject: Another fund raiser for the museum
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11926	From: Rick Evans	Date: 2/26/2001
Subject: Loose screw holes........
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11927	From: Rick Evans	Date: 2/26/2001
Subject: Up to 651 members now.......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11928	From: Alex	Date: 2/26/2001
Subject: Re: access to yahoo
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11929	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 2/26/2001
Subject: Re: Loose screw holes........
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11930	From: Scott Brown	Date: 2/26/2001
Subject: Re: Can Motors
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11931	From: Robert Wight	Date: 2/26/2001
Subject: Re: Loose screw holes........
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11932	From: loubaldi@aol.com	Date: 2/26/2001
Subject: Re: Loose screw holes........
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11933	From: Skip Kendel	Date: 2/26/2001
Subject: Re: SHS wins
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11934	From: TPDavis7@aol.com	Date: 2/27/2001
Subject: Re: Can Motors
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11935	From: Scott Holm	Date: 2/27/2001
Subject: Multimeter with temperature probe
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11936	From: Alex	Date: 2/27/2001
Subject: Re: Multimeter with temperature probe
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11937	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 2/27/2001
Subject: S-Video rerun
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11938	From: John Denholm	Date: 2/27/2001
Subject: loco 282 hole wear-outs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11939	From: Nick and Becky Colleran	Date: 2/27/2001
Subject: Can motor in a K-5 pacific
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11940	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 2/27/2001
Subject: can motor in a K-5 pacific
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11941	From: Scott Brown	Date: 2/28/2001
Subject: Re: Can Motor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11942	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 2/28/2001
Subject: 21130 new armature
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11943	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 2/28/2001
Subject: Re: can motor in a K-5 pacific
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11944	From: finerty, paul	Date: 2/28/2001
Subject: can motors
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11945	From: kathy/tom Gerbasi	Date: 2/28/2001
Subject: Fw: Membership.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11946	From: David	Date: 2/28/2001
Subject: Re: Fw: Membership.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11947	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 2/28/2001
Subject: steam loco commutator wear
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11948	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 2/28/2001
Subject: steam loco commutator wear
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11949	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 2/28/2001
Subject: S_SCALE KITS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11950	From: g-wolfgang1@juno.com	Date: 2/28/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 927
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11951	From: IronHorse	Date: 2/28/2001
Subject: Armature
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11952	From: Ross	Date: 2/28/2001
Subject: AF Excitement
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11953	From: castironv8@aol.com	Date: 2/28/2001
Subject: Excitement
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11954	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 2/28/2001
Subject: excitement
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11955	From: Ktrdd@AOL.com	Date: 2/28/2001
Subject: Re: AF Excitement
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11956	From: Mark Preman	Date: 2/28/2001
Subject: AmericanFlyer Trains for Sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11957	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 2/28/2001
Subject: Re; steam loco commutator wear
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11958	From: The Reis's	Date: 2/28/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Earthquake
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11960	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 2/28/2001
Subject: ATTENTION !!!! Re; steam loco commutator wear
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11961	From: mvandiver2@aol.com	Date: 3/1/2001
Subject: Falling trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11962	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 3/1/2001
Subject: EARTHQUAKE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11963	From: W. Thomas Boussum	Date: 3/1/2001
Subject: Spectacular 'S' gauge train wrecks.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11964	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 3/1/2001
Subject: Barrel comm armature
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11965	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 3/1/2001
Subject: 21130 recall
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11966	From: William H Trefts	Date: 3/1/2001
Subject: Tootsie Toys
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11967	From: David	Date: 3/1/2001
Subject: Re: Tootsie Toys
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11968	From: John Foley	Date: 3/1/2001
Subject: Ads for NASG convention
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11969	From: Nick and Becky Colleran	Date: 3/1/2001
Subject: Comments on can motors
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11970	From: gino restivo	Date: 3/1/2001
Subject: re; rev is faster ,
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11971	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/1/2001
Subject: Re: Comments on can motors
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11972	From: Nick and Becky Colleran	Date: 3/1/2001
Subject: Armatures and steps (root canal repair)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11973	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 3/2/2001
Subject: 21130 renewed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11974	From: Nick and Becky Colleran	Date: 3/2/2001
Subject: Fwd: Re: [S-Trains] Comments on can motors
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11975	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 3/2/2001
Subject: Low number vs high number Alcos
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11976	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 3/2/2001
Subject: Re: Low number vs high number Alcos
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11977	From: Dnnis A Troini	Date: 3/2/2001
Subject: Re: Comments on can motors
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11978	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/2/2001
Subject: SMOKE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11979	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 3/2/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11980	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 3/2/2001
Subject: Re: Low number vs high number Alcos
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11981	From: Bob	Date: 3/2/2001
Subject: Elevate switches.......?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11982	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/2/2001
Subject: Re: Elevate switches.......?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11983	From: gino restivo	Date: 3/2/2001
Subject: Re: Elevate switches.......?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11984	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/3/2001
Subject: CEDAR OIL
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11985	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 3/3/2001
Subject: Layout construction
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11986	From: Tom Young	Date: 3/3/2001
Subject: Layout construction
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11987	From: donabrams	Date: 3/3/2001
Subject: 5-digit alcos
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11988	From: donabrams	Date: 3/3/2001
Subject: Proofreading is dead
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11989	From: donabrams	Date: 3/3/2001
Subject: Greg Kreft
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11990	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 3/3/2001
Subject: Missing Person/Video
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11991	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/3/2001
Subject: Re: Missing Person/Video
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11992	From: Rick Evans	Date: 3/3/2001
Subject: To the Sunday nite chat gang..........
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11993	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/3/2001
Subject: Re: To the Sunday nite chat gang..........
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11994	From: david garber	Date: 3/3/2001
Subject: Re: sunday nite chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11995	From: gino restivo	Date: 3/3/2001
Subject: Re: Missing Person/Video
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11996	From: joe messinger	Date: 3/3/2001
Subject: Brush Arc
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11997	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/3/2001
Subject: Boxcad????
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11998	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/3/2001
Subject: BOXCAR????
Group: S-Trains	Message: 11999	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 3/3/2001
Subject: Price on MTH Sawmill
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12000	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 3/3/2001
Subject: early and late Alcos
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12001	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 3/3/2001
Subject: johnny lightning cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12002	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/3/2001
Subject: Re: johnny lightning cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12003	From: Ted R Larson	Date: 3/4/2001
Subject: Public Service Announcement
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12004	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 3/4/2001
Subject: 752 coal loader gears
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12005	From: lancemccold@chartertn.net	Date: 3/4/2001
Subject: Repair manual recommendations
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12006	From: lancemccold@chartertn.net	Date: 3/4/2001
Subject: Gargraves S-gauge sectional track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12007	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 3/4/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12008	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 3/4/2001
Subject: Re: access to yahoo
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12009	From: gino restivo	Date: 3/4/2001
Subject: Re: Repair manual recommendations
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12010	From: gino restivo	Date: 3/4/2001
Subject: Re: 752 coal loader gears
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12011	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 3/4/2001
Subject: Re: Price on MTH Sawmill
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12013	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 3/4/2001
Subject: Early and Late Alcos
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12014	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/5/2001
Subject: Re: early and late Alcos
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12015	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/5/2001
Subject: GP-20 Chessie # 4-8459
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12016	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 3/5/2001
Subject: Re: Price on MTH Sawmill(Containers)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12017	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 3/5/2001
Subject: cedar oil
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12018	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 3/5/2001
Subject: no pickup shoes on 360
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12019	From: IronHorse	Date: 3/5/2001
Subject: Repair manual
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12020	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/5/2001
Subject: SMOKE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12021	From: Rick Evans	Date: 3/5/2001
Subject: Canisters for gondolas....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12022	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/5/2001
Subject: SMOKE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12023	From: gino restivo	Date: 3/5/2001
Subject: Re: Repair manual
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12024	From: gino restivo	Date: 3/5/2001
Subject: Re: SMOKE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12025	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/5/2001
Subject: Re: Repair manual
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12026	From: negative_pitch@hotmail.com	Date: 3/5/2001
Subject: Re: GP-20 Chessie # 4-8459
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12027	From: joe messinger	Date: 3/5/2001
Subject: Alignment Tool
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12028	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/5/2001
Subject: Re: Alignment Tool
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12029	From: neil.trump@bt.com	Date: 3/6/2001
Subject: Re: Alignment Tool
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12030	From: Nick and Becky Colleran	Date: 3/6/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 933
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12031	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 3/6/2001
Subject: Super Smoke
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12032	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 3/6/2001
Subject: Re: Super Smoke
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12033	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 3/6/2001
Subject: Re: Super Smoke
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12034	From: Rick Evans	Date: 3/6/2001
Subject: Liquid smoke--lamp oil.....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12035	From: colin_olsen@hotmail.com	Date: 3/6/2001
Subject: Air Chime Whistle
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12036	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 3/6/2001
Subject: Re: Alignment Tool
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12037	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/6/2001
Subject: Re: Alignment Tool
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12038	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 3/6/2001
Subject: Re: Air Chime Whistle
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12039	From: joe messinger	Date: 3/6/2001
Subject: Wheel Alignment
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12040	From: donabrams	Date: 3/6/2001
Subject: PU shoes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12041	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/6/2001
Subject: Re: Wheel Alignment
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12042	From: busyboy	Date: 3/7/2001
Subject: Re: Wheel Alignment
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12043	From: Gerry Evans	Date: 3/7/2001
Subject: Viruses Doth Abound
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12044	From: Robert Wight	Date: 3/7/2001
Subject: Quartering
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12045	From: busyboy	Date: 3/7/2001
Subject: Re: Wheel Alignment
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12046	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/7/2001
Subject: Re: Wheel Alignment
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12047	From: belairchevy@webtv.net	Date: 3/7/2001
Subject: Liquid Smoke Test
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12048	From: Scott Holm	Date: 3/7/2001
Subject: Re: Air Chime Whistle
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12049	From: John DeFelice	Date: 3/7/2001
Subject: Quartering
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12050	From: colin_olsen@hotmail.com	Date: 3/7/2001
Subject: Smoke
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12051	From: joe messinger	Date: 3/7/2001
Subject: Quartering--Tool?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12052	From: busyboy	Date: 3/7/2001
Subject: Re: Wheel Alignment
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12053	From: D Simon	Date: 3/7/2001
Subject: Re: Alignment Tool
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12054	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 3/8/2001
Subject: Quartering
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12055	From: michael prell	Date: 3/8/2001
Subject: Fwd: Fw: SCAM - FW: AREA CODE 809
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12056	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 3/8/2001
Subject: Re: Fwd: Fw: SCAM - FW: AREA CODE 809
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12057	From: Douglass Allen	Date: 3/8/2001
Subject: quarter
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12058	From: M.McConnell	Date: 3/8/2001
Subject: Promote S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12059	From: W. Thomas Boussum	Date: 3/8/2001
Subject: Driver quartering in 1:1 scale.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12060	From: Al Rawdon	Date: 3/8/2001
Subject: Trainworld has LTI American Flyer for sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12061	From: negative_pitch@hotmail.com	Date: 3/8/2001
Subject: Re: Trainworld has LTI American Flyer for sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12062	From: Roy Inman	Date: 3/8/2001
Subject: TW ad
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12063	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 3/8/2001
Subject: Re: TW ad
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12064	From: Doug	Date: 3/9/2001
Subject: Re: TW ad
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12065	From: rsharty@swbell.net	Date: 3/9/2001
Subject: 312
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12066	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 3/9/2001
Subject: Fw: SCAM - FW: AREA CODE 809
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12067	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 3/9/2001
Subject: Re: TW ad
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12068	From: Roger Zuerlein	Date: 3/9/2001
Subject: Re: PRS on AF
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12069	From: W. Thomas Boussum	Date: 3/9/2001
Subject: Steam driver quartering
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12070	From: Doug	Date: 3/9/2001
Subject: Re: TW ad
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12071	From: W. Thomas Boussum	Date: 3/9/2001
Subject: Sorry for the "stutter."
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12072	From: wayne broadhead	Date: 3/9/2001
Subject: Re: Trainworld has LTI American Flyer for sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12073	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 3/9/2001
Subject: Re: PRS on AF
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12074	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 3/9/2001
Subject: Solid vs. Stranded?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12075	From: Bill Porter	Date: 3/9/2001
Subject: Re: Solid vs. Stranded?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12076	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 3/9/2001
Subject: AF Alco slide pick-up shoe
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12077	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 3/9/2001
Subject: AF Alco slide pick-up shoe
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12078	From: cbrf@snet.net	Date: 3/9/2001
Subject: Train World Ad
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12079	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 3/9/2001
Subject: Virus Advice
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12080	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 3/9/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12081	From: Victor Bereskin	Date: 3/9/2001
Subject: Quartering
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12082	From: Tom Young	Date: 3/9/2001
Subject: 312
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12083	From: Scott Holm	Date: 3/9/2001
Subject: Silver Bullet pulls 40 cars!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12084	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 3/9/2001
Subject: MATCHING MAROON AND DARK GREEN PAINT
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12085	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 3/9/2001
Subject: Re: MATCHING MAROON AND DARK GREEN PAINT
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12086	From: hsjobbins@juno.com	Date: 3/10/2001
Subject: AF Alco Slide Power Pick
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12087	From: Rick Evans	Date: 3/10/2001
Subject: To the Sunday night chat crowd......& shows?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12088	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 3/10/2001
Subject: Contributions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12089	From: busyboy	Date: 3/10/2001
Subject: Trainworld/Trainland
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12090	From: David	Date: 3/10/2001
Subject: Whats in a #30 Highway Signs Kit?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12091	From: lancemccold@chartertn.net	Date: 3/10/2001
Subject: Bushings for diesel motor chassis
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12092	From: Rick Evans	Date: 3/10/2001
Subject: Re: Whats in a #30 Highway Signs Kit?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12094	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 3/10/2001
Subject: AF Alco slide pick-up shoe info
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12095	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/11/2001
Subject: smoke opinion
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12096	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/11/2001
Subject: SMOKE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12097	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 3/11/2001
Subject: Re: AF Alco slide pick-up shoe info
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12098	From: Douglass Allen	Date: 3/11/2001
Subject: Highway signs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12099	From: Douglass Allen	Date: 3/11/2001
Subject: busyboy
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12100	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 3/11/2001
Subject: Re: AF Alco slide pick-up shoe info
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12101	From: Scott Holm	Date: 3/11/2001
Subject: Ebay Warning.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12102	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 3/11/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12103	From: John Foley	Date: 3/11/2001
Subject: Coming Events
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12104	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 3/11/2001
Subject: New file uploaded to S-Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12105	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 3/11/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] MR Coming Events
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12106	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/11/2001
Subject: SMOKE TESTERS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12107	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 3/11/2001
Subject: paint stripping and refinishing 101
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12108	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 3/11/2001
Subject: Freebee link trucks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12109	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 3/11/2001
Subject: Re: paint stripping and refinishing 101
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12110	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/11/2001
Subject: CHRIS ZIZZO
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12111	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 3/11/2001
Subject: Pick-up shoe performance
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12112	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 3/11/2001
Subject: paint stripping and refinishing 101
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12113	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 3/12/2001
Subject: Pacifc Rail Shops HiRail Conversion
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12114	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 3/12/2001
Subject: Re: paint stripping and refinishing 101
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12115	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/12/2001
Subject: Re: paint stripping and refinishing 101
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12116	From: Bruce Crosby	Date: 3/12/2001
Subject: Re: paint stripping and refinishing 101
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12117	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/12/2001
Subject: Smoke Testers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12118	From: Trbngs@cs.com	Date: 3/12/2001
Subject: Smoke fluid....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12119	From: Scott Holm	Date: 3/12/2001
Subject: Ebay shilling
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12120	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 3/12/2001
Subject: Re: Ebay shilling & other eBay troubles
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12121	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 3/12/2001
Subject: Re: Paint Stripping 101
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12122	From: R2724@AOL.COM	Date: 3/12/2001
Subject: CAN MOTORS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12123	From: Ktrdd@AOL.com	Date: 3/12/2001
Subject: Re: Paint Stripping 101
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12124	From: David	Date: 3/12/2001
Subject: Re: Ebay shilling
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12125	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: Re: Ebay shilling
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12126	From: John Denholm	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: Can Motors conversions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12127	From: Scott Brown	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: Re: Paint Stripping
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12128	From: busyboy	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: Re: Pacifc Rail Shops HiRail Conversion
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12129	From: Scott Brown	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: Re: TrainWorld
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12130	From: busyboy	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: Re: Smoke fluid....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12131	From: busyboy	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: Re: Ebay shilling
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12132	From: Scott Holm	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: Re: Ebay shilling
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12133	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: Re: Ebay shilling
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12134	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: Re: Ebay shilling
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12135	From: Trbngs@cs.com	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: Re: Smoke fluid....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12136	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: Re: Pacifc Rail Shops HiRail Conversion
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12137	From: David	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: Re: Ebay shilling
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12138	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 940
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12139	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: Re: Ebay shilling
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12140	From: Rick Evans	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: S.F. GATS...J.L. 1/64th cars...SHS wooden reefers....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12141	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: Re: Pacifc Rail Shops HiRail Conversion
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12142	From: Rick Evans	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: Re: Ebay feedback
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12143	From: Rick Evans	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: Alias & shades.....on ebay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12144	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: Smoke unit
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12145	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: Re: Alias & shades.....on ebay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12146	From: Al	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: Pine Sol
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12147	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: PRS CONVERSION
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12148	From: Gary Chidester	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: E-bay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12149	From: Paul Krucik	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: Repair of track contact sliders
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12150	From: Trbngs@cs.com	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: Paint removal...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12151	From: Robert Wight	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: E-bay feedback
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12152	From: Gary Chidester	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: Re: E-bay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12153	From: Peck	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: Re: EBAY feedback
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12154	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: Re: Repair of track contact sliders
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12155	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: Re: Pine Sol
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12156	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: Re: Pine Sol
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12157	From: Neil Trump	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: Re: Repair of track contact sliders
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12158	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 3/14/2001
Subject: Re: Repair of track contact sliders
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12159	From: LEAHY RUTH A	Date: 3/14/2001
Subject: Metal signs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12160	From: Douglass Allen	Date: 3/14/2001
Subject: e-bay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12161	From: afstrains@aol.com	Date: 3/14/2001
Subject: Re: New List
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12162	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 3/14/2001
Subject: pick-up shoe coil springs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12163	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 3/14/2001
Subject: removing white "mildew"
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12164	From: donabrams	Date: 3/14/2001
Subject: Contact Sliders
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12165	From: donabrams	Date: 3/14/2001
Subject: Paint Removal
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12166	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/14/2001
Subject: Re: e-bay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12167	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 3/14/2001
Subject: name of Wal-Mart metal bluing product?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12168	From: Bill Porter	Date: 3/14/2001
Subject: Re: e-bay and the Post Offfice
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12169	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 3/14/2001
Subject: shoe springs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12170	From: Neil Trump	Date: 3/14/2001
Subject: Re: shoe springs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12171	From: Douglass Allen	Date: 3/14/2001
Subject: e-bay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12172	From: Douglass Allen	Date: 3/14/2001
Subject: Steamtown NASG Convention 2001
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12173	From: Rick Evans	Date: 3/14/2001
Subject: Re: e-bay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12174	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/14/2001
Subject: Re: e-bay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12175	From: louis glumac	Date: 3/14/2001
Subject: Re: removing white "mildew"
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12176	From: Gourlie, Peter	Date: 3/14/2001
Subject: removes mildew, but decals?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12177	From: g-wolfgang1@juno.com	Date: 3/14/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 939
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12178	From: David	Date: 3/14/2001
Subject: Re: removing white "mildew"
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12179	From: Eugene Steffan	Date: 3/14/2001
Subject: All-Aboard Set
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12180	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 3/14/2001
Subject: 302 vs 302AC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12181	From: Steve Jones	Date: 3/14/2001
Subject: Re: fall s-fest
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12182	From: howard sheffield	Date: 3/14/2001
Subject: Re: e-bay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12183	From: The Reis's	Date: 3/14/2001
Subject: Re: e-bay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12184	From: belairchevy@webtv.net	Date: 3/14/2001
Subject: Re: All Aboard
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12185	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/14/2001
Subject: Re: e-bay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12186	From: Ted R Larson	Date: 3/15/2001
Subject: my groups
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12187	From: John Denholm	Date: 3/15/2001
Subject: E-Bay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12188	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 3/15/2001
Subject: Re: 302 vs 302AC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12189	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 3/15/2001
Subject: Re: E-Bay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12190	From: J. Paul Hartman	Date: 3/15/2001
Subject: Re: e-bay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12191	From: Douglass Allen	Date: 3/15/2001
Subject: e-bay VS mail order
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12192	From: Trbngs@cs.com	Date: 3/15/2001
Subject: E-Bay alteratives.....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12193	From: Scott Holm	Date: 3/15/2001
Subject: Re: Train City
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12194	From: Douglass Allen	Date: 3/15/2001
Subject: mail order
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12195	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 3/15/2001
Subject: Wanted to Purchase: ALL ABOARD PANELS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12196	From: Douglass Allen	Date: 3/15/2001
Subject: mail order
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12197	From: Alex	Date: 3/15/2001
Subject: Re: e-bay VS mail order
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12198	From: Roy Inman	Date: 3/15/2001
Subject: train shows
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12199	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 3/15/2001
Subject: White stuff on couplers, wheels, etc.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12200	From: John Foley	Date: 3/15/2001
Subject: Re: Steamtown NASG 2001 Convention
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12201	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 3/15/2001
Subject: Re: Steamtown NASG 2001 Convention
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12202	From: David	Date: 3/15/2001
Subject: Re: E-Bay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12203	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 3/15/2001
Subject: 3/16 Reminder....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12204	From: deisaacs@yahoo.com	Date: 3/15/2001
Subject: Re. White Stuff
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12205	From: Peck	Date: 3/15/2001
Subject: Re: Insurance claims
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12206	From: Gerry Evans	Date: 3/15/2001
Subject: Cleaning house
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12207	From: SMITTY@tir.com	Date: 3/15/2001
Subject: bluing compound
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12208	From: SMITTY@tir.com	Date: 3/15/2001
Subject: alternates to eBay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12209	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/15/2001
Subject: E-Bay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12210	From: deisaacs@yahoo.com	Date: 3/15/2001
Subject: Excess Locomotives
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12211	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 3/15/2001
Subject: American Models BUDD Passenger Cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12212	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 3/16/2001
Subject: Re: American Models BUDD Passenger Cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12213	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 3/16/2001
Subject: Fw: GVT RAIL SYSTEM ANNOUNCES SPECIAL CELEBRATION & EXCURSIONS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12214	From: John Foley	Date: 3/16/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: [S-Trains] American Models BUDD Passenger Cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12215	From: John Foley	Date: 3/16/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Fw: GVT RAIL SYSTEM ANNOUNCES SPECIAL CELEBRATION & E
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12216	From: Doug	Date: 3/16/2001
Subject: Re: American Models BUDD Passenger Cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12217	From: sigma@ecn.ab.ca	Date: 3/16/2001
Subject: Re: Today is 3/16
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12218	From: Douglass Allen	Date: 3/16/2001
Subject: Convention trade show hours
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12219	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 3/16/2001
Subject: Re: 302 vs 302AC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12220	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 3/16/2001
Subject: New file uploaded to S-Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12221	From: Scott Brown	Date: 3/16/2001
Subject: MTH Prototypes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12222	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 3/16/2001
Subject: Mike's smoke fluid
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12223	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 3/16/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12224	From: SMITTY@tir.com	Date: 3/16/2001
Subject: AM Budd cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12225	From: Ted R Larson	Date: 3/16/2001
Subject: Standards
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12226	From: guckian@infinet.com	Date: 3/16/2001
Subject: alco & geep
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12227	From: deisaacs@yahoo.com	Date: 3/16/2001
Subject: Re: Excess Locomotives
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12228	From: Rick Evans	Date: 3/16/2001
Subject: S-Trains member update......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12229	From: Bob	Date: 3/17/2001
Subject: Dover,N.J. show......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12230	From: Scott Holm	Date: 3/17/2001
Subject: Ebay results
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12231	From: lancemccold@chartertn.net	Date: 3/17/2001
Subject: Book Review
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12232	From: Tom Stolte	Date: 3/17/2001
Subject: One big mess
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12233	From: Nick and Becky Colleran	Date: 3/17/2001
Subject: Wanted: AF Pikemaster straight track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12234	From: busyboy	Date: 3/18/2001
Subject: Let's do this!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12235	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 3/18/2001
Subject: Re: Happy Belated St. Gilbert's Day (3/16)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12236	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 3/18/2001
Subject: Re: Let's do this!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12237	From: Thomas EE Hillery	Date: 3/18/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 948
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12238	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 3/18/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 948
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12239	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 3/18/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12240	From: Tom Robichaud	Date: 3/18/2001
Subject: Re: MTH Prototypes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12241	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 3/18/2001
Subject: Re: and Steamtown 2001 Schedule At-A-Glance
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12243	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 3/18/2001
Subject: New file uploaded to S-Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12244	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 3/18/2001
Subject: New file uploaded to S-Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12245	From: loubaldi@aol.com	Date: 3/18/2001
Subject: Digital Images
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12246	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 3/18/2001
Subject: Hvywt full baggage car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12247	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 3/18/2001
Subject: Gargraves Track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12248	From: nmescher@classictrains.com	Date: 3/18/2001
Subject: American "S" Gauge Track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12249	From: lapasafe@worldnet.att.net	Date: 3/18/2001
Subject: Gargraves Track And Showcase Line
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12250	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/19/2001
Subject: 944 Brownhoist Crane
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12251	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 3/19/2001
Subject: Re: Gargraves Track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12252	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 3/19/2001
Subject: 944 Brownhoist Crane
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12253	From: David	Date: 3/19/2001
Subject: Re: 944 Brownhoist Crane
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12254	From: busyboy	Date: 3/19/2001
Subject: Hvywt full baggage car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12255	From: busyboy	Date: 3/19/2001
Subject: Re: American "S" Gauge Track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12256	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 3/19/2001
Subject: Re: Gargraves Track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12257	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/19/2001
Subject: Roger Patteralla???
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12258	From: D Simon	Date: 3/19/2001
Subject: Lionel value help
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12259	From: riechert@qwest.net	Date: 3/19/2001
Subject: 769A beacon- what's the secret?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12260	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 3/19/2001
Subject: Re: 769A beacon- what's the secret?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12261	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/19/2001
Subject: BEACON WATTS THE SECRET (pun intended)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12262	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 3/19/2001
Subject: Re: Gargraves Track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12263	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 3/19/2001
Subject: Re: 944 Brownhoist Crane
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12264	From: Eugene Steffan	Date: 3/19/2001
Subject: Lionel #11748
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12265	From: Ktrdd@AOL.com	Date: 3/19/2001
Subject: Gargraves & Outriggers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12266	From: SMITTY@tir.com	Date: 3/19/2001
Subject: gargraves and beacons
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12267	From: Tom Stolte	Date: 3/19/2001
Subject: Re: [N] One big mess
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12268	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 3/19/2001
Subject: Re: 769A beacon- what's the secret?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12269	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 3/20/2001
Subject: American S Gauge track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12270	From: nmescher@classictrains.com	Date: 3/20/2001
Subject: American "S" Gauge Flex Pricing
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12271	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 3/20/2001
Subject: Bending Gargraves
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12272	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 3/20/2001
Subject: baggage door window inserts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12273	From: Douglass Allen	Date: 3/20/2001
Subject: 769 A
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12274	From: sgriggs@umich.edu	Date: 3/20/2001
Subject: Re: American S Gauge track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12275	From: Robert Wight	Date: 3/20/2001
Subject: Just a story
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12276	From: Al Paolozzi	Date: 3/20/2001
Subject: Re: baggage door window inserts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12277	From: M.McConnell	Date: 3/20/2001
Subject: American Models Track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12278	From: budirusso@aol.com	Date: 3/20/2001
Subject: A.C. Gilbert catalog for sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12279	From: John Foley	Date: 3/20/2001
Subject: Interesting Websites on Scranton PA.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12280	From: louis glumac	Date: 3/20/2001
Subject: track fs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12281	From: busyboy	Date: 3/20/2001
Subject: What is this?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12282	From: Tom Stolte	Date: 3/20/2001
Subject: Oddballs Decals up and running again!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12283	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 3/20/2001
Subject: Re: 944 Brownhoist Crane
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12284	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 3/20/2001
Subject: Re: 944 Brownhoist Crane
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12285	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/20/2001
Subject: Re: What is this?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12286	From: Peck	Date: 3/20/2001
Subject: Re: Beacons
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12287	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/20/2001
Subject: Re: 944 Brownhoist Crane
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12288	From: Ted Weiler	Date: 3/20/2001
Subject: Re: American S Gauge track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12289	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 3/20/2001
Subject: Re: 944 Brownhoist Crane
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12290	From: David	Date: 3/20/2001
Subject: Re: What is this?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12291	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/20/2001
Subject: Re: 944 Brownhoist Crane
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12292	From: busyboy	Date: 3/20/2001
Subject: Re: What is this?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12293	From: R2724@AOL.COM	Date: 3/20/2001
Subject: PORTALS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12294	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 3/21/2001
Subject: serif or sans-serif PULLMAN
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12295	From: Howell S Jobbins	Date: 3/21/2001
Subject: Re: 944 Brownhoist Crane
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12296	From: Howell S Jobbins	Date: 3/21/2001
Subject: Re: What is this?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12297	From: Neimanis,V. [NCR]	Date: 3/21/2001
Subject: Re: Bending Gargraves
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12298	From: Bill Porter	Date: 3/21/2001
Subject: Re: PORTALS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12299	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 3/21/2001
Subject: rotating beacon
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12300	From: The McColds	Date: 3/21/2001
Subject: "American Flyer S Gauge 1946-2000"
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12301	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/21/2001
Subject: Re: What is this?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12302	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 3/21/2001
Subject: Re: 944 Brownhoist Crane
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12303	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 3/21/2001
Subject: Talking station
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12304	From: Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S.	Date: 3/21/2001
Subject: [Commercial] New Products Status
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12305	From: busyboy	Date: 3/21/2001
Subject: OO gauge on e-Bay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12306	From: Douglass Allen	Date: 3/21/2001
Subject: another just a story
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12307	From: busyboy	Date: 3/21/2001
Subject: e-Bay categories
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12308	From: Rick Evans	Date: 3/21/2001
Subject: Re: "American Flyer S Gauge 1946-2000"
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12309	From: The_maurers	Date: 3/21/2001
Subject: Wheel Insulator Replacement (0-8-0)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12310	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 3/21/2001
Subject: Re: [Commercial] New Products Status
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12311	From: gino restivo	Date: 3/21/2001
Subject: Re: Talking station
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12312	From: rlbelyea@msn.com	Date: 3/21/2001
Subject: Repair Parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12313	From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade	Date: 3/21/2001
Subject: Re: [Commercial] New Products Status
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12314	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 3/21/2001
Subject: Hvywt lettering
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12315	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 3/22/2001
Subject: Talking station reproducer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12316	From: IronHorse	Date: 3/22/2001
Subject: TRIPOD train sites
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12317	From: sigma@ecn.ab.ca	Date: 3/22/2001
Subject: Re: Yahoo
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12318	From: Velapoldi's	Date: 3/22/2001
Subject: Western Maryland Area
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12319	From: David A. Highfield	Date: 3/22/2001
Subject: Re: Western Maryland Area
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12320	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/22/2001
Subject: 1946 - 2000 GUIDE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12321	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/22/2001
Subject: NORTHERN 4-8-4
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12322	From: SMITTY@tir.com	Date: 3/22/2001
Subject: 343 wheels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12323	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/22/2001
Subject: WHEELPULLER
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12324	From: aztecfan@yahoo.com	Date: 3/22/2001
Subject: $1 for 12 trees and 12 fenses
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12325	From: aztecfan@yahoo.com	Date: 3/22/2001
Subject: Marx 333 3/16
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12326	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 3/22/2001
Subject: NORTHERN 4-8-4
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12327	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 3/23/2001
Subject: Re: East Coast Hobby Show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12328	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 3/23/2001
Subject: Re: East Coast Hobby Show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12329	From: jd	Date: 3/23/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 953
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12330	From: LEAHY RUTH A	Date: 3/23/2001
Subject: Trip to Europe
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12331	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 3/23/2001
Subject: Western Maryland Scenic Railroad
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12332	From: neil.trump@bt.com	Date: 3/23/2001
Subject: Re: Trip to Europe
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12333	From: Gerry Evans	Date: 3/23/2001
Subject: Re: Trip to Europe
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12334	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 3/23/2001
Subject: removing white stuff
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12335	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 3/23/2001
Subject: Western MD Scenic
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12336	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 3/23/2001
Subject: New file uploaded to S-Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12337	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 3/23/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12338	From: The Reis's	Date: 3/23/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] AM GP-9 parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12339	From: busyboy	Date: 3/23/2001
Subject: AF/HO
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12340	From: busyboy	Date: 3/24/2001
Subject: Western Maryland Scenic Railroad
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12341	From: busyboy	Date: 3/24/2001
Subject: Another S project shelved
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12342	From: link_n_pin@yahoo.com	Date: 3/24/2001
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12343	From: joe messinger	Date: 3/24/2001
Subject: Scenic Railroads
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12344	From: Roy Inman	Date: 3/24/2001
Subject: CZ cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12345	From: Roy Inman	Date: 3/24/2001
Subject: Web link
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12346	From: dav21248@aol.com	Date: 3/24/2001
Subject: MTH OPERATING COALING TOWER
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12347	From: sgriggs@umich.edu	Date: 3/24/2001
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12348	From: SMITTY@tir.com	Date: 3/24/2001
Subject: crackle vs wrinkle paint
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12349	From: John Foley	Date: 3/24/2001
Subject: East Coast Hobby Show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12350	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 3/24/2001
Subject: NASG Elections
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12351	From: The Reis's	Date: 3/24/2001
Subject: Re: crackle vs wrinkle paint
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12352	From: hgbutler	Date: 3/24/2001
Subject: ID Caboose Paint Matching
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12353	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 3/24/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] East Coast Hobby Show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12354	From: Scott Brown	Date: 3/25/2001
Subject: Re: Another S Project Shelved
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12355	From: Gerry Evans	Date: 3/25/2001
Subject: Attn: Badgerland S Gaugers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12356	From: busyboy	Date: 3/25/2001
Subject: Re: crackle vs wrinkle paint
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12357	From: hgbutler	Date: 3/25/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] ID Caboose Paint Matching
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12358	From: Peck	Date: 3/25/2001
Subject: Re: Crackle paint
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12359	From: Dick Kuepper	Date: 3/25/2001
Subject: Glue
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12360	From: busyboy	Date: 3/25/2001
Subject: The Jig Zone
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12361	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 3/25/2001
Subject: Re: Another S Project Shelved
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12362	From: Arden Goehring	Date: 3/25/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Attn: Badgerland S Gaugers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12363	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/25/2001
Subject: Re: The Jig Zone
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12364	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 3/25/2001
Subject: Re: Another S Project Shelved
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12365	From: WNHOLCOMB@aol.com	Date: 3/25/2001
Subject: Re: Rechroming
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12366	From: Alex	Date: 3/25/2001
Subject: Re: Another S Project Shelved
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12367	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/25/2001
Subject: RECROMING
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12368	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 3/25/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12369	From: Dick Kuepper	Date: 3/25/2001
Subject: Castings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12370	From: Clifford Manning	Date: 3/25/2001
Subject: 718 Baggage car shell
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12371	From: John Foley	Date: 3/25/2001
Subject: More info on Scranton and Steamtown
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12372	From: Wayne and Alice Beachy	Date: 3/25/2001
Subject: American Models
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12373	From: Scott Brown	Date: 3/25/2001
Subject: Re: Another S Project Shelved
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12374	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/25/2001
Subject: Chat tonite!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12375	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 3/25/2001
Subject: Re: Glue
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12376	From: Robert Allen Conner NCARB Architect	Date: 3/25/2001
Subject: MOLDS - SPEEDEE-BILTS PLANES
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12377	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/25/2001
Subject: Re: Another S Project Shelved
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12378	From: Roy Inman	Date: 3/25/2001
Subject: Re: crackle vs wrinkle paint
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12379	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 3/26/2001
Subject: AM Quality control
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12380	From: John Denholm	Date: 3/26/2001
Subject: Re-storing Metal Alum'Pass/cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12381	From: Douglass Allen	Date: 3/26/2001
Subject: wrinkle paint
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12382	From: Douglass Allen	Date: 3/26/2001
Subject: Dennis/S project shelved
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12383	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 3/26/2001
Subject: Trouble with a 302AC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12384	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 3/26/2001
Subject: Re: Trouble with a 302AC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12385	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/26/2001
Subject: Re: Trouble with a 302AC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12386	From: M.McConnell	Date: 3/26/2001
Subject: SJSG Train Show in Phila Metro.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12387	From: Roger Zuerlein	Date: 3/26/2001
Subject: Re: Another S Project Shelved
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12388	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 3/26/2001
Subject: Re: Trouble with a 302AC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12389	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 3/26/2001
Subject: Re: Trouble with a 302AC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12390	From: John Foley	Date: 3/26/2001
Subject: New York to Scranton by Rail Someday maybe
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12391	From: joe messinger	Date: 3/26/2001
Subject: Cass Scenic R.R.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12392	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/26/2001
Subject: Re: Trouble with a 302AC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12393	From: John Denholm	Date: 3/26/2001
Subject: Re-store Pass Cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12394	From: joe messinger	Date: 3/26/2001
Subject: Cass R.R.- Address Correction
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12395	From: lancemccold@chartertn.net	Date: 3/26/2001
Subject: American Models
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12396	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 3/26/2001
Subject: Re: American Models
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12397	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 3/26/2001
Subject: Toys
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12398	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/26/2001
Subject: Re: American Models
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12399	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/26/2001
Subject: SW/9.......Also Smoke
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12400	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 3/26/2001
Subject: Re: American Models
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12401	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 3/26/2001
Subject: Re: SW/9.......Also Smoke
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12402	From: Rick Evans	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Re: Sluggish engines.........
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12403	From: Howell S Jobbins	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Re: American Models
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12404	From: Tom Robichaud	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: MTH coal towers are in
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12405	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Re: American Models
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12406	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Best thing for AC Steamers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12407	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Re: American Models
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12408	From: Bill Porter	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Toys and Models
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12409	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Re: American Models
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12410	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: American Models
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12411	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: AF KC Truck Bushings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12412	From: sgriggs@umich.edu	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Re: American Models
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12413	From: louis glumac	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: MTH
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12414	From: sgriggs@umich.edu	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Re: American Models
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12415	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: And another thing, in defense of Gilbert motors...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12416	From: Douglass Allen	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Toys
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12417	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Re: American Models and toys
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12418	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Toys and Models.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12419	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Re: Toys
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12420	From: IronHorse	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Re: Toys
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12421	From: pieter_roos@yahoo.com	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Re: Toys and Models
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12422	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Re: American Models
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12423	From: David	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Re: MTH coal towers are in
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12424	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Re: Toys and Models
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12425	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Re: "dumbed down" line of trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12426	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Re: And another thing, in defense of Gilbert motors...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12427	From: sgriggs@umich.edu	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Re: "dumbed down" line of trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12428	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: SETS DUMB OR OTHER ....WISE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12429	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Re: SETS DUMB OR OTHER ....WISE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12430	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: SETS DUMD OR OTHER...WISE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12431	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Re: Toys and Models
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12432	From: SMITTY@tir.com	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12433	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Two bits worth on AM, SHS, AC Gilbert
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12434	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Re: SETS DUMB OR OTHER ....WISE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12435	From: Dick Kuepper	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: S Manufacturers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12436	From: aztecfan@yahoo.com	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: AF vs Scale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12437	From: Ktrdd@AOL.com	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Toys
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12438	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: sad
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12439	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Re: Two bits worth on AM, SHS, AC Gilbert
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12440	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Re: S Manufacturers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12441	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Re: SETS DUMB OR OTHER ....WISE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12442	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Re: Two bits worth on AM, SHS, AC Gilbert
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12443	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Re: And another thing, in defense of Gilbert motors
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12444	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 3/28/2001
Subject: Re: And another thing, in defense of Gilbert motors...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12445	From: David	Date: 3/28/2001
Subject: Figures & Signs Needed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12446	From: IronHorse	Date: 3/28/2001
Subject: Toy or scale ?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12447	From: IronHorse	Date: 3/28/2001
Subject: Smudged windows
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12448	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 3/28/2001
Subject: Re: "dumbed down" line of trains (and other things)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12449	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 3/28/2001
Subject: Re: Smudged windows
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12450	From: pieter_roos@yahoo.com	Date: 3/28/2001
Subject: Re: Two bits worth on AM, SHS, AC Gilbert
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12451	From: pieter_roos@yahoo.com	Date: 3/28/2001
Subject: Re: Smudged windows
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12452	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/28/2001
Subject: Re: "dumbed down" line of trains (and other things)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12453	From: trainzz99@aol.com	Date: 3/28/2001
Subject: UNSCRIBE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12454	From: Al	Date: 3/28/2001
Subject: APO white metal passenger car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12455	From: Thomas Stoltz	Date: 3/28/2001
Subject: turnouts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12456	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 3/28/2001
Subject: Re: APO white metal passenger car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12457	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 3/28/2001
Subject: LTI sales pressure
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12458	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 3/28/2001
Subject: residue
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12459	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 3/28/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 950
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12460	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 3/28/2001
Subject: More 302 AC questions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12461	From: J_Gasal@Compuserve.com	Date: 3/28/2001
Subject: MTH Coal Loader delivery
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12462	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 3/28/2001
Subject: Re: residue
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12463	From: IronHorse	Date: 3/28/2001
Subject: Train Price guide
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12464	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 3/28/2001
Subject: (train sets) ....something under $150
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12465	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 3/28/2001
Subject: Re: Another S Project Shelved
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12466	From: gino restivo	Date: 3/28/2001
Subject: Re: LTI sales pressure
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12467	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 3/28/2001
Subject: Re: More 302 AC questions (Success!)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12468	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/28/2001
Subject: JOHN ELCHMANN
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12469	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 3/28/2001
Subject: Here is boys, the MTH Coaling tower already on eBay!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12470	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 3/28/2001
Subject: LTI sales pressure
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12471	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/29/2001
Subject: Re: Here is boys, the MTH Coaling tower already on eBay!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12472	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/29/2001
Subject: Re: (train sets) ....something under $150
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12473	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 3/29/2001
Subject: Starter Set for S Gauge
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12474	From: Peck	Date: 3/29/2001
Subject: Re: MTH
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12475	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 3/29/2001
Subject: Re: Smudged windows
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12476	From: Tom Robichaud	Date: 3/29/2001
Subject: Re: MTH Coal Loader delivery
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12477	From: sgriggs@umich.edu	Date: 3/29/2001
Subject: Re: Here is boys, the MTH Coaling tower already on eBay!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12478	From: pieter_roos@yahoo.com	Date: 3/29/2001
Subject: Re: "dumbed down" line of trains (and other things)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12479	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 3/29/2001
Subject: Re: LTI sales pressure
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12480	From: Roy Inman	Date: 3/29/2001
Subject: ACG/AFL
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12481	From: pieter_roos@yahoo.com	Date: 3/29/2001
Subject: If AC Gilbert... was Re: Two bits worth on AM, SHS, AC Gilbert
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12482	From: Alan Evans	Date: 3/29/2001
Subject: American Models at Springfield OH show April 1
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12483	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 3/29/2001
Subject: smudged windows
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12484	From: michael prell	Date: 3/29/2001
Subject: S-monsters
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12485	From: Trbngs@cs.com	Date: 3/29/2001
Subject: Re: S-monsters
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12486	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 3/29/2001
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12487	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 3/29/2001
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12488	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 3/29/2001
Subject: Fwd: [S-Trains] LTI sales pressure
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12489	From: alorince@yahoo.com	Date: 3/29/2001
Subject: pittsburgh train show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12490	From: TWesthelle@aol.com	Date: 3/29/2001
Subject: AF 771 Windows
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12491	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 3/29/2001
Subject: Mid-Atlantic Train Shows
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12492	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/29/2001
Subject: SMOKE ADDRESS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12493	From: ussbadger@hotmail.com	Date: 3/29/2001
Subject: MTH Coal Loader
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12494	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/29/2001
Subject: SMOKE REPORT
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12495	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/29/2001
Subject: Re: S-monsters
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12496	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 3/29/2001
Subject: S-monsters
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12497	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/29/2001
Subject: Trains for sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12498	From: Lewis Webb	Date: 3/30/2001
Subject: MTH sawmill # 30-9122 and log loader #30-9119
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12499	From: Jim Hannawald	Date: 3/30/2001
Subject: Mid-Atlantic Shows
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12500	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 3/30/2001
Subject: Re: "dumbed down" line of trains (and other things)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12501	From: Dan Brindell	Date: 3/30/2001
Subject: Re: Mid-Atlantic Train Shows
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12502	From: colin_olsen@hotmail.com	Date: 3/30/2001
Subject: AF 302AC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12503	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 3/30/2001
Subject: Monsters
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12504	From: M.McConnell	Date: 3/30/2001
Subject: Re: Mid-Atlantic Train Shows
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12505	From: John Foley	Date: 3/30/2001
Subject: ST. Louis NMRA
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12506	From: Ron Brady	Date: 3/30/2001
Subject: unsubscribe
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12507	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 3/30/2001
Subject: Re: AF 302AC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12508	From: Velapoldi's	Date: 3/30/2001
Subject: Re: Toys
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12509	From: Tom Rolfsmeyer	Date: 3/30/2001
Subject: Any good S guage store or hobby shops in St. Louis?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12510	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 3/30/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12511	From: Bill Lane	Date: 3/30/2001
Subject: B & O EM-1 in S Scale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12512	From: howard sheffield	Date: 3/30/2001
Subject: Re: AF 302AC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12513	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/30/2001
Subject: Re: AF 302AC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12514	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/30/2001
Subject: NP OBS.CAR
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12515	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 3/30/2001
Subject: AF 302AC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12517	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 3/31/2001
Subject: Re: ACG/AFL
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12518	From: Lewis Webb	Date: 3/31/2001
Subject: Sawmill and Log Loader
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12519	From: lancemccold@chartertn.net	Date: 3/31/2001
Subject: Re: AF 302AC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12520	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 3/31/2001
Subject: Re: Sawmill and Log Loader
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12521	From: negative_pitch@hotmail.com	Date: 3/31/2001
Subject: Re: Sawmill and Log Loader and other MTH
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12522	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 3/31/2001
Subject: Re: Sawmill and Log Loader and other MTH
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12523	From: busyboy	Date: 3/31/2001
Subject: Re: B & O EM-1 in S Scale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12524	From: Ted R Larson	Date: 3/31/2001
Subject: Chapel Cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12525	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 3/31/2001
Subject: chapel cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12526	From: busyboy	Date: 3/31/2001
Subject: Re: B & O EM-1 in S Scale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12527	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/31/2001
Subject: JAIL CARS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12528	From: hgbutler	Date: 3/31/2001
Subject: Ideal Plastic Automobile Kits
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12529	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 3/31/2001
Subject: Re: Sawmill and Log Loader and other MTH
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12530	From: Ktrdd@AOL.com	Date: 3/31/2001
Subject: Toys Again
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12531	From: jfred4436@aol.com	Date: 3/31/2001
Subject: Re: Toys Again
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12532	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 3/31/2001
Subject: Re: Toys Again
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12533	From: gino restivo	Date: 3/31/2001
Subject: Re: NP OBS.CAR
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12534	From: gino restivo	Date: 3/31/2001
Subject: Re: Toys Again
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12535	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 3/31/2001
Subject: Re: B & O EM-1 in S Scale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12536	From: dav21248@aol.com	Date: 3/31/2001
Subject: American Models Switch
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12537	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/31/2001
Subject: LTI PASS CAR CRACK
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12538	From: Trbngs@cs.com	Date: 3/31/2001
Subject: S-scale magazines for sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12539	From: Howell S Jobbins	Date: 4/1/2001
Subject: Re: American Models Switch
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12540	From: Velapoldi's	Date: 4/1/2001
Subject: Switches
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12541	From: Scott Brown	Date: 4/1/2001
Subject: Brass Engines
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12542	From: Scott Brown	Date: 4/1/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 966
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12543	From: eddie rickenbacker	Date: 4/1/2001
Subject: Re: LTI PASS CAR CRACK
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12544	From: eddie rickenbacker	Date: 4/1/2001
Subject: Re: Ideal Plastic Automobile Kits
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12545	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 4/1/2001
Subject: Re: American Models Switch
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12546	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 4/1/2001
Subject: Re: Switches
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12547	From: Robert Allen Conner NCARB Architect	Date: 4/1/2001
Subject: s mags
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12548	From: donabrams	Date: 4/1/2001
Subject: MTH Coal Loader
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12549	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 4/1/2001
Subject: MTH Web site
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12550	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 4/1/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Switches
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12551	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 4/1/2001
Subject: 302AC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12552	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 4/1/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12553	From: Velapoldi's	Date: 4/1/2001
Subject: Re Snow white and the seven dwarfs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12554	From: Ted Weiler	Date: 4/1/2001
Subject: Re: Re Snow white and the seven dwarfs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12555	From: Michael Greene	Date: 4/1/2001
Subject: S scale products from Berkshire Junction
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12556	From: loubaldi@aol.com	Date: 4/1/2001
Subject: Re: MTH Web site
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12557	From: Nick and Becky Colleran	Date: 4/1/2001
Subject: Are we sure Lionel owns Gilbert name?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12558	From: loubaldi@aol.com	Date: 4/1/2001
Subject: 650 Passenger Car Repairs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12559	From: W. Thomas Boussum	Date: 4/1/2001
Subject: Ideal Model Cars.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12560	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 4/1/2001
Subject: AF Baldwin armatures
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12561	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 4/1/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 966
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12562	From: hgbutler	Date: 4/1/2001
Subject: Re: Ideal Plastic Automobile Kits
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12563	From: Nick and Becky Colleran	Date: 4/1/2001
Subject: Gilbert trademark
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12564	From: Bruce Crosby	Date: 4/2/2001
Subject: Repair of AF Commutators
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12565	From: jd	Date: 4/2/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 967
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12566	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/2/2001
Subject: Re: Repair of AF Commutators
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12567	From: colin_olsen@hotmail.com	Date: 4/2/2001
Subject: AF 320AC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12568	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 4/2/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re Snow white and the seven dwarfs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12569	From: Jim Hannawald	Date: 4/2/2001
Subject: Re: AF 320AC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12570	From: Scott Holm	Date: 4/2/2001
Subject: Re: AF 302AC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12571	From: Bill	Date: 4/2/2001
Subject: Brass Rolling Stock
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12572	From: Peck	Date: 4/2/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 965
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12573	From: Peck	Date: 4/2/2001
Subject: Re: MTH
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12574	From: Peck	Date: 4/2/2001
Subject: Re: Dept 56
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12575	From: pieter_roos@yahoo.com	Date: 4/2/2001
Subject: Re: Dept 56
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12576	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 4/2/2001
Subject: DEPT 56
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12577	From: belairchevy@webtv.net	Date: 4/2/2001
Subject: Trademarks (Gilbert)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12578	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 4/2/2001
Subject: Re: DEPT 56
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12579	From: Thomas EE Hillery	Date: 4/2/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 967
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12580	From: Thomas EE Hillery	Date: 4/2/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 967
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12581	From: Thomas EE Hillery	Date: 4/2/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 967
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12582	From: Thomas EE Hillery	Date: 4/2/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 967
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12583	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 4/2/2001
Subject: SMOKE UNITS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12584	From: Ted R Larson	Date: 4/2/2001
Subject: Winross
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12585	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 4/3/2001
Subject: AF 302AC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12586	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 4/3/2001
Subject: eBay question. Am I being a pain?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12587	From: Dnnis A Troini	Date: 4/3/2001
Subject: Re: eBay question. Am I being a pain?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12588	From: Bill Porter	Date: 4/3/2001
Subject: Re: eBay question. Am I being a pain?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12589	From: Rick Evans	Date: 4/3/2001
Subject: Re: eBay question. Am I being a pain?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12590	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 4/3/2001
Subject: Re: eBay question. Am I being a pain?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12591	From: Dnnis A Troini	Date: 4/3/2001
Subject: Re: eBay question. Am I being a pain?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12592	From: Richard Cataldi	Date: 4/3/2001
Subject: Bill Banta's recent message on promoting S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12593	From: David	Date: 4/3/2001
Subject: Re: eBay question. Am I being a pain?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12594	From: SMITTY@tir.com	Date: 4/3/2001
Subject: eBay pain
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12595	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 4/3/2001
Subject: 322 DC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12596	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 4/3/2001
Subject: Re: 322 DC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12597	From: Peck	Date: 4/3/2001
Subject: Re: Dept 56
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12598	From: donabrams	Date: 4/3/2001
Subject: Reply on MTH coal loader
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12599	From: Eugene Steffan	Date: 4/3/2001
Subject: Re: B & O EM-1 in S Scale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12600	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 4/3/2001
Subject: Re: B & O EM-1 in S Scale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12601	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 4/3/2001
Subject: Loco wishes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12602	From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com	Date: 4/3/2001
Subject: Re-installing AF 771 windows
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12603	From: Thomas EE Hillery	Date: 4/3/2001
Subject: Re: SHS SWITCH
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12604	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 4/4/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 969
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12605	From: pieter_roos@yahoo.com	Date: 4/4/2001
Subject: Re: B & O EM-1 in S Scale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12606	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 4/4/2001
Subject: B & O EM-1 in S Scale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12607	From: pieter_roos@yahoo.com	Date: 4/4/2001
Subject: Steam locos was Re: B & O EM-1 in S Scale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12608	From: Jim Carnes	Date: 4/4/2001
Subject: Jackrabbit starts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12609	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 4/4/2001
Subject: Re: Jackrabbit starts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12610	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 4/4/2001
Subject: Re: B & O EM-1 in S Scale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12611	From: Howell S Jobbins	Date: 4/4/2001
Subject: Re: Jackrabbit starts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12612	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 4/4/2001
Subject: Re: Jackrabbit starts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12613	From: Wayne and Alice Beachy	Date: 4/4/2001
Subject: Going for a record
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12614	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 4/4/2001
Subject: Re: Jackrabbit starts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12615	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 4/4/2001
Subject: Re: Going for a record
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12616	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 4/4/2001
Subject: Replacing orignal AF Trucks (and wheels)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12617	From: Mike Vana	Date: 4/4/2001
Subject: Collecting S gauge (and AF)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12618	From: Roy Inman	Date: 4/4/2001
Subject: Re: Loco wishes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12619	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 4/4/2001
Subject: American Models
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12620	From: loubaldi@aol.com	Date: 4/4/2001
Subject: Re: Jackrabbit starts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12621	From: Roy Inman	Date: 4/4/2001
Subject: Chicago S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12622	From: busyboy	Date: 4/5/2001
Subject: Re: Going for a record
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12623	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 4/5/2001
Subject: Re: Jackrabbit starts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12624	From: Mark Preman	Date: 4/5/2001
Subject: American Flyer Trains For Sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12625	From: Scott Holm	Date: 4/5/2001
Subject: Re: Chicago S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12626	From: Roy Plotnick	Date: 4/5/2001
Subject: Chicago S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12627	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 4/5/2001
Subject: Re: Replacing orignal AF Trucks (and wheels)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12628	From: Gregg Mummert	Date: 4/5/2001
Subject: Geep Sideframes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12629	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 4/5/2001
Subject: (SIG) Special Interest Groups
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12630	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 4/5/2001
Subject: jack rabbit starts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12631	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 4/5/2001
Subject: Coal loaders
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12632	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 4/5/2001
Subject: Re: Timonium This Weekend Great Scale Show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12633	From: J_Gasal@Compuserve.com	Date: 4/5/2001
Subject: Re: Coal loaders
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12634	From: Tom Stolte	Date: 4/5/2001
Subject: New Decals from Oddballs Decals - N, S, HO & O scales
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12635	From: softmoods@vcn.com	Date: 4/5/2001
Subject: July Train Show/Swap Meet
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12636	From: The Reis's	Date: 4/5/2001
Subject: S Gauge Heralds
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12637	From: Roy Inman	Date: 4/5/2001
Subject: Chicago
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12638	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 4/6/2001
Subject: Re: Timonium Show 4/7 -4/8
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12639	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 4/6/2001
Subject: Re: Timonium Show 4/7 -4/8
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12640	From: David A. Highfield	Date: 4/6/2001
Subject: Re: Timonium Show 4/7 -4/8
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12641	From: Richard J. Nicholls	Date: 4/6/2001
Subject: MTH Coal Loader
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12642	From: Richard J. Nicholls	Date: 4/6/2001
Subject: MTH Coal Loader
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12643	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 4/6/2001
Subject: Lookout Junction on Display
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12644	From: Peck	Date: 4/6/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Crown
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12645	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 4/6/2001
Subject: Re: 650 Passenger Car Repairs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12646	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 4/6/2001
Subject: Re: Re Snow white and the seven dwarfs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12647	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 4/6/2001
Subject: Re: Loco wishes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12648	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 4/6/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12649	From: Peck	Date: 4/6/2001
Subject: Re: Changing Hands
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12650	From: J_Gasal@Compuserve.com	Date: 4/6/2001
Subject: Re: MTH Coal Loader
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12651	From: howard sheffield	Date: 4/6/2001
Subject: Re: MTH Coal Loader
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12652	From: M.McConnell	Date: 4/6/2001
Subject: Pictures of new products
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12653	From: M.McConnell	Date: 4/6/2001
Subject: Pictures of the SJSG-sponsered train show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12654	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 4/7/2001
Subject: Re: Pictures of new products
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12655	From: J_Gasal@Compuserve.com	Date: 4/7/2001
Subject: Re: MTH Coal Loader
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12656	From: J_Gasal@Compuserve.com	Date: 4/7/2001
Subject: Re: MTH Coal Loader
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12657	From: M.McConnell	Date: 4/7/2001
Subject: Re: Pictures of new products
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12658	From: Alan C Udy	Date: 4/7/2001
Subject: Based in Fact?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12659	From: busyboy	Date: 4/7/2001
Subject: Re: Snow white and the seven dwarfs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12660	From: busyboy	Date: 4/7/2001
Subject: Re: Pictures of new products
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12661	From: busyboy	Date: 4/7/2001
Subject: Re: Based in Fact?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12662	From: Trbngs@cs.com	Date: 4/7/2001
Subject: S-west
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12663	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 4/7/2001
Subject: Re: Pictures of new products
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12664	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 4/7/2001
Subject: wrinkle paint
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12665	From: rlbelyea@msn.com	Date: 4/7/2001
Subject: Pa. Heritage Models
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12666	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 4/7/2001
Subject: Re: Pa. Heritage Models
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12667	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 4/7/2001
Subject: Rubber stamps
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12668	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 4/7/2001
Subject: You and Mark Twain
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12669	From: John Foley	Date: 4/7/2001
Subject: Fwd: re: NASG Convention & Open House
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12670	From: joestrainrepair@yahoo.com	Date: 4/8/2001
Subject: Yahoo! Auto Response
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12671	From: Velapoldi's	Date: 4/8/2001
Subject: Agreement
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12672	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 4/8/2001
Subject: Re: S-west
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12673	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 4/8/2001
Subject: Re: Pa. Heritage Models
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12674	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 4/8/2001
Subject: Re: Pa. Heritage Models
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12675	From: TWYLA STARR	Date: 4/8/2001
Subject: k-5 parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12676	From: Robert Allen Conner NCARB Architect	Date: 4/8/2001
Subject: BUGS AND PARTS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12677	From: Howell S Jobbins	Date: 4/8/2001
Subject: Re: Rubber stamps
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12678	From: Howell S Jobbins	Date: 4/8/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Agreement - Need the switches !!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12679	From: Peck	Date: 4/8/2001
Subject: Re: rubber stamps
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12680	From: SMITTY@tir.com	Date: 4/8/2001
Subject: wrinkle paint
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12681	From: Rick Evans	Date: 4/8/2001
Subject: Re: Plasticville
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12682	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 4/8/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12683	From: donabrams	Date: 4/8/2001
Subject: MTH Coal Loader
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12684	From: Euell Johnson	Date: 4/8/2001
Subject: Re: S-west
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12685	From: J_Gasal@Compuserve.com	Date: 4/8/2001
Subject: Re: MTH Coal Loader
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12686	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 4/8/2001
Subject: MTH Coal Loader
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12687	From: Tom Robichaud	Date: 4/9/2001
Subject: Re: MTH Coal Loader
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12688	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 4/9/2001
Subject: Diesel Roar Unit
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12689	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/9/2001
Subject: Re: Diesel Roar Unit
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12690	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/9/2001
Subject: Fixin' Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12691	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 4/9/2001
Subject: Re: Fixin' Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12692	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 4/9/2001
Subject: diesel roar
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12693	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/9/2001
Subject: Re: Fixin' Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12694	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 4/9/2001
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12695	From: Bill Porter	Date: 4/9/2001
Subject: Re: (unknown)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12696	From: dlehnhoff@hotmail.com	Date: 4/9/2001
Subject: MTH COAL LOADER
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12697	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 4/9/2001
Subject: MTH coaler pictures
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12698	From: howard sheffield	Date: 4/9/2001
Subject: Re: Fixin' Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12699	From: SMITTY@tir.com	Date: 4/9/2001
Subject: diesel roar
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12700	From: JRKRrdd@aol.com	Date: 4/9/2001
Subject: "Like Television" for AF
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12701	From: busyboy	Date: 4/9/2001
Subject: MTH Coaling Tower
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12702	From: jmogil@aol.com	Date: 4/9/2001
Subject: Wanted SHS #0051 UP & #0053 CNW
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12703	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 4/9/2001
Subject: MTH Coaler
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12704	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 4/9/2001
Subject: Re: MTH COAL LOADER
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12705	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 4/9/2001
Subject: Re: diesel roar
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12706	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 4/9/2001
Subject: Re: MTH Coaling Tower
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12707	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 4/9/2001
Subject: Re: MTH COAL LOADER
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12708	From: Randall L. Griggs	Date: 4/9/2001
Subject: http://www.boysrailroadclub.com
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12709	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 4/9/2001
Subject: Re: Diesel Roar Unit
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12710	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 4/9/2001
Subject: Re: MTH coaler pictures
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12712	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 4/9/2001
Subject: Re: MTH Coaling Tower
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12713	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 4/9/2001
Subject: MTH COALING TOWER
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12714	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 4/10/2001
Subject: Re: Diesel Roar Unit
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12715	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 4/10/2001
Subject: Re: http://www.boysrailroadclub.com
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12716	From: Tom Robichaud	Date: 4/10/2001
Subject: Re: MTH COAL LOADER
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12717	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 4/10/2001
Subject: Re: MTH Coaler & Leaving Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12718	From: Douglass Allen	Date: 4/10/2001
Subject: S-Fest
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12719	From: Scott Holm	Date: 4/10/2001
Subject: Text pictures
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12720	From: Gerry Evans	Date: 4/10/2001
Subject: Freebie
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12721	From: Jerry Riechert	Date: 4/10/2001
Subject: diesel roar - too hot?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12722	From: colin_olsen@hotmail.com	Date: 4/10/2001
Subject: S-Gauge Round House
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12723	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 4/10/2001
Subject: too hot
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12724	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 4/10/2001
Subject: SHS B&0 2-8-0 (was Re: [S-Scale] Re: [S-Trains] Based in Fact?)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12725	From: Velapoldi's	Date: 4/10/2001
Subject: Re: MTH COALING TOWER
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12726	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 4/10/2001
Subject: Re: [showcaseline] E-27's Pics.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12727	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 4/10/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Agreement - Need the switches !!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12728	From: Neimanis,V. [NCR]	Date: 4/10/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 975
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12729	From: Robert Allen Conner NCARB Architect	Date: 4/10/2001
Subject: remove rcon@mediaone.net
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12730	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 4/10/2001
Subject: Flyer Images
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12731	From: donabrams	Date: 4/10/2001
Subject: Diagram
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12732	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 4/10/2001
Subject: TENDER-LESS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12733	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 4/10/2001
Subject: Re: too hot
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12734	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 4/10/2001
Subject: Re: TENDER-LESS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12735	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 4/10/2001
Subject: COALING TOWER
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12736	From: Robert Allen Conner NCARB Architect	Date: 4/10/2001
Subject: Re: remove rcon@mediaone.net
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12737	From: Peck	Date: 4/10/2001
Subject: Re: MTH Coaler
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12738	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 4/10/2001
Subject: DC CAN MOTOR CONVERSION KITS.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12739	From: Jerry Riechert	Date: 4/10/2001
Subject: Re: too hot
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12740	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 4/11/2001
Subject: Re: S-west
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12741	From: Douglass Allen	Date: 4/11/2001
Subject: Best Coal
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12742	From: Tom Robichaud	Date: 4/11/2001
Subject: Re: Best Coal
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12743	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 4/11/2001
Subject: Re: DC motor conversions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12744	From: Gregg Mummert	Date: 4/11/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 977
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12745	From: Al	Date: 4/11/2001
Subject: Boys Railroad Club
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12746	From: Peck	Date: 4/11/2001
Subject: Re: engine bulbs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12747	From: Peck	Date: 4/11/2001
Subject: Re: roundhouse
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12748	From: erierailroad@aol.com	Date: 4/11/2001
Subject: S-Trains] DC CAN MOTOR CONVERSION KITS and DCC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12749	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 4/11/2001
Subject: 336 Passenger cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12750	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 4/11/2001
Subject: 336 cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12751	From: Peck	Date: 4/11/2001
Subject: Re: PHM Baldwin
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12752	From: Peck	Date: 4/11/2001
Subject: Re: misc. questions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12755	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 4/11/2001
Subject: Re: DC motor conversions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12756	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 4/11/2001
Subject: SMOKE Vs REVERSE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12757	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 4/12/2001
Subject: SMOKE Vs REVERSE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12758	From: Rick Evans	Date: 4/12/2001
Subject: Diagram Problems......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12759	From: bilfrazier@aol.com	Date: 4/12/2001
Subject: Re: DCC in Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12760	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 4/12/2001
Subject: New York Sharks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12761	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 4/12/2001
Subject: passenger cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12762	From: sigma@ecn.ab.ca	Date: 4/12/2001
Subject: horn controller
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12763	From: Scott Holm	Date: 4/12/2001
Subject: Re: DC motor conversions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12764	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 4/12/2001
Subject: Re: horn controller
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12765	From: gino restivo	Date: 4/12/2001
Subject: Re: horn controller
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12766	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 4/12/2001
Subject: horn/bell controller
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12767	From: Gerry Evans	Date: 4/12/2001
Subject: Election
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12768	From: donabrams	Date: 4/12/2001
Subject: diagrams
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12769	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 4/12/2001
Subject: NASG
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12770	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 4/12/2001
Subject: NASG
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12771	From: busyboy	Date: 4/12/2001
Subject: trainman-terry@webtv.net
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12772	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 4/12/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 979
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12773	From: D Simon	Date: 4/13/2001
Subject: WTB 353 Circus engine
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12774	From: Eugene Steffan	Date: 4/13/2001
Subject: Re: Election
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12775	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 4/13/2001
Subject: Link to KC back to Link
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12776	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 4/13/2001
Subject: Re: SHS 2-8-0
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12777	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 4/13/2001
Subject: Re: Link to KC back to Link
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12778	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/13/2001
Subject: MTH Coal Loader, mine's Here!!!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12779	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/13/2001
Subject: Re: Link to KC back to Link
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12780	From: Jerry Riechert	Date: 4/13/2001
Subject: looking for parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12781	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 4/13/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12782	From: sgriggs@umich.edu	Date: 4/13/2001
Subject: Re: MTH Coal Loader, mine's Here!!!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12783	From: Rick Evans	Date: 4/14/2001
Subject: Re: Link to KC back to Link
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12784	From: Peck	Date: 4/14/2001
Subject: Re: misc.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12785	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 4/14/2001
Subject: Re: Link to KC back to Link
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12786	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 4/14/2001
Subject: 336's
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12787	From: gino restivo	Date: 4/14/2001
Subject: Re: 336's
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12788	From: busyboy	Date: 4/14/2001
Subject: Re: WTB 353 Circus engine
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12789	From: Roger Zuerlein	Date: 4/14/2001
Subject: Re: http://www.boysrailroadclub.com
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12790	From: The_maurers	Date: 4/14/2001
Subject: Re: 919 Coal Dump Car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12791	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 4/14/2001
Subject: Re: 919 Coal Dump Car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12792	From: Rick Evans	Date: 4/14/2001
Subject: Circus trains......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12793	From: Rick Evans	Date: 4/14/2001
Subject: Easter train.....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12794	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 4/14/2001
Subject: CIRCUS TRAINS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12795	From: Scott Kubel	Date: 4/14/2001
Subject: New to S-Guage
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12796	From: Walt Danylak	Date: 4/15/2001
Subject: Re: looking for parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12797	From: Bob	Date: 4/15/2001
Subject: Smokin' Diesels ?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12798	From: d.garber@home.com	Date: 4/15/2001
Subject: Smokin' Diesels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12799	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 4/15/2001
Subject: NASG REGIONAL STATES
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12800	From: Rick Evans	Date: 4/15/2001
Subject: Re: Smokin' Diesels ?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12801	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 4/15/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12802	From: Jerry Riechert	Date: 4/15/2001
Subject: Re: misc.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12803	From: Peck	Date: 4/15/2001
Subject: Re: Bumpers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12804	From: Peck	Date: 4/15/2001
Subject: Re: Roundhouse column
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12805	From: M.McConnell	Date: 4/15/2001
Subject: Street lights/Billboards
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12806	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 4/15/2001
Subject: Re: NASG REGIONAL STATES
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12807	From: Lee Johnson	Date: 4/15/2001
Subject: Re: NASG REGIONAL STATES
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12808	From: Peck	Date: 4/16/2001
Subject: Re: Smokin' diesels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12809	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 4/16/2001
Subject: SSL&S Mogul
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12810	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 4/16/2001
Subject: LC conversion
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12811	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 4/16/2001
Subject: SHS 2-8-0 Consolidation
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12812	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 4/16/2001
Subject: AF Track screws
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12813	From: Tom Robichaud	Date: 4/16/2001
Subject: Re: Smokin' Diesels ?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12814	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 4/16/2001
Subject: Smokin'diesels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12815	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 4/16/2001
Subject: New file uploaded to S-Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12816	From: Tom Robichaud	Date: 4/16/2001
Subject: Re: New file uploaded to S-Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12817	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 4/16/2001
Subject: Circus Train
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12818	From: sigma@ecn.ab.ca	Date: 4/16/2001
Subject: covered hopper
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12819	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 4/16/2001
Subject: Re: Smokin' Diesels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12820	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 4/16/2001
Subject: Re: covered hopper
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12821	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 4/16/2001
Subject: SMOKING DIESELS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12822	From: Tom Robichaud	Date: 4/16/2001
Subject: Re: SMOKING DIESELS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12823	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 4/16/2001
Subject: Re: SHS 2-8-0 Consolidation
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12824	From: ALLAN V EISENHAUR	Date: 4/16/2001
Subject: ERTL Parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12825	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 4/16/2001
Subject: Re: ERTL Parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12826	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 4/16/2001
Subject: american models
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12827	From: Eugene Steffan	Date: 4/16/2001
Subject: Re: american models
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12828	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 4/16/2001
Subject: Re: New file uploaded to S-Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12829	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 4/16/2001
Subject: Re: ERTL Parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12830	From: roninscho9@yahoo.com	Date: 4/16/2001
Subject: Re: SHS 2-8-0 Consolidation
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12831	From: roninscho9@yahoo.com	Date: 4/16/2001
Subject: Re: SHS 2-8-0 Consolidation
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12832	From: roninscho9@yahoo.com	Date: 4/16/2001
Subject: Re: SHS 2-8-0 Consolidation
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12833	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 4/17/2001
Subject: FOR SALE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12834	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 4/17/2001
Subject: Re: SHS 2-8-0 Consolidation
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12835	From: Tom Robichaud	Date: 4/17/2001
Subject: Re: New file uploaded to S-Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12836	From: Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S.	Date: 4/17/2001
Subject: New Phone & Fax Numbers for B.T.S.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12837	From: ALLAN V EISENHAUR	Date: 4/17/2001
Subject: Duplicate Magazines
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12838	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 4/17/2001
Subject: Re: New file uploaded to S-Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12839	From: roninscho9@yahoo.com	Date: 4/17/2001
Subject: NYC Empire state express set from Am models
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12840	From: Bill Frazier	Date: 4/17/2001
Subject: AF transformer ratings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12841	From: sgriggs@umich.edu	Date: 4/17/2001
Subject: Re: NYC Empire state express set from Am models
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12842	From: roninscho9@yahoo.com	Date: 4/17/2001
Subject: Re: NYC Empire state express set from Am models
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12843	From: roninscho9@yahoo.com	Date: 4/17/2001
Subject: Re: NYC Empire state express set from Am models
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12844	From: sgriggs@umich.edu	Date: 4/17/2001
Subject: Re: AF transformer ratings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12845	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 4/17/2001
Subject: Re: AF transformer ratings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12846	From: Tom Rolfsmeyer	Date: 4/17/2001
Subject: Please unsubscribe me.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12847	From: William Ellis	Date: 4/17/2001
Subject: Re: AF transformer ratings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12848	From: J_Gasal@Compuserve.com	Date: 4/17/2001
Subject: Re: AF transformer ratings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12849	From: Bill Lane	Date: 4/17/2001
Subject: Pennsy S Models X 29 project
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12850	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 4/17/2001
Subject: AF transformer ratings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12851	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 4/17/2001
Subject: AF transformer ratings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12852	From: Tom Robichaud	Date: 4/18/2001
Subject: Southwind Consolidation, anyone running one on DCC?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12853	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 4/18/2001
Subject: unsubscribe
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12854	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 4/18/2001
Subject: Re: Transformer ratings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12855	From: Guy Davis	Date: 4/18/2001
Subject: AF 4-4-0
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12856	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 4/18/2001
Subject: accessories
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12857	From: bilfrazier@aol.com	Date: 4/18/2001
Subject: Re: Transformers.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12858	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 4/18/2001
Subject: ACCESSORIES
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12859	From: Tom Stolte	Date: 4/18/2001
Subject: Missouri Pacific Photos web page updated..
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12860	From: John Foley	Date: 4/18/2001
Subject: NASG Convention Car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12861	From: Scott Brown	Date: 4/18/2001
Subject: All aboard panels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12862	From: Rick Evans	Date: 4/18/2001
Subject: Hot Wheels hot rods....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12863	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 4/19/2001
Subject: TRAINS 4 Sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12864	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 4/19/2001
Subject: NP SET
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12865	From: Bill Lane	Date: 4/19/2001
Subject: Enhorning Items
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12866	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 4/19/2001
Subject: Transformers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12867	From: sigma@ecn.ab.ca	Date: 4/19/2001
Subject: All Nation
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12868	From: Scott Holm	Date: 4/19/2001
Subject: Re: Transformers.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12869	From: negative_pitch@hotmail.com	Date: 4/19/2001
Subject: Location of AC Gilbert Building
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12870	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 4/19/2001
Subject: Enhorning items
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12871	From: alorince@yahoo.com	Date: 4/19/2001
Subject: train shows ohio
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12872	From: David Garber	Date: 4/19/2001
Subject: a.c.gilbert factory
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12873	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 4/19/2001
Subject: Train Master Release
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12874	From: LASTMAN	Date: 4/19/2001
Subject: Re: Location of AC Gilbert Building
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12875	From: negative_pitch@hotmail.com	Date: 4/19/2001
Subject: Re: Location of AC Gilbert Building
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12876	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 4/20/2001
Subject: accessories
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12877	From: Clay Buckage	Date: 4/20/2001
Subject: Gilbert Get-Together Spring 2001
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12878	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 4/20/2001
Subject: Cass
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12879	From: Ted R Larson	Date: 4/20/2001
Subject: S-MOD
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12880	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 4/20/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12881	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 4/20/2001
Subject: A/F NH 984 Boxcar door
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12882	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 4/20/2001
Subject: Re: Enhorning items
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12883	From: Rick Evans	Date: 4/20/2001
Subject: S, O, or HO Flyer bridge...??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12884	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 4/20/2001
Subject: "SAM"
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12885	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 4/20/2001
Subject: "SAM"
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12886	From: Al Paolozzi	Date: 4/20/2001
Subject: Re: S, O, or HO Flyer bridge...??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12887	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 4/20/2001
Subject: "SAM"
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12888	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/20/2001
Subject: Re: "SAM"
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12889	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 4/21/2001
Subject: Re: "SAM"
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12890	From: Peck	Date: 4/21/2001
Subject: Re: bridge
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12891	From: Eugene Steffan	Date: 4/21/2001
Subject: Re: bridge
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12892	From: busyboy	Date: 4/21/2001
Subject: Re: S, O, or HO Flyer bridge...??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12893	From: busyboy	Date: 4/21/2001
Subject: Re: "SAM"
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12894	From: Jerry Riechert	Date: 4/21/2001
Subject: Re: Gilbert Get-Together Spring 2001 - shirts?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12895	From: Rick Evans	Date: 4/21/2001
Subject: Chopped/hodge-podged/whatever bridge........
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12896	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 4/21/2001
Subject: Re: "SAM"
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12897	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 4/21/2001
Subject: SAM AGAIN
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12898	From: Mark Preman	Date: 4/21/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 989
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12899	From: Mike Vana	Date: 4/21/2001
Subject: AF bridge on Ebay / Control Buttons
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12900	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 4/21/2001
Subject: AF bridge on ebay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12901	From: Scott Brown	Date: 4/21/2001
Subject: Re: S, O, or HO Flyer bridge...??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12902	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 4/21/2001
Subject: Track Trips
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12903	From: Rick Evans	Date: 4/21/2001
Subject: Coal loads......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12904	From: roninscho9@yahoo.com	Date: 4/21/2001
Subject: short a.f. bridge
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12905	From: Bill Clark	Date: 4/22/2001
Subject: Bristol Club, pictures from Greenberg
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12906	From: Bill Clark	Date: 4/22/2001
Subject: Photos of John Ciarleglio's layout
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12907	From: Peck	Date: 4/22/2001
Subject: Re: controls & coal loads
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12908	From: Howell S Jobbins	Date: 4/22/2001
Subject: Re: Coal loads......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12909	From: Douglass Allen	Date: 4/22/2001
Subject: Coal loads
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12910	From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi	Date: 4/22/2001
Subject: help
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12911	From: Rick Evans	Date: 4/22/2001
Subject: Re: Coal loads
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12912	From: Rick Evans	Date: 4/22/2001
Subject: Re: help
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12913	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 4/22/2001
Subject: My new Rock Island (ROCK) Geep:)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12914	From: Rick Evans	Date: 4/22/2001
Subject: Speaking of Lionel Flyer rolling stock......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12915	From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi	Date: 4/22/2001
Subject: Help
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12916	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 4/22/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12917	From: John Foley	Date: 4/22/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] help
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12918	From: erierailroad@aol.com	Date: 4/22/2001
Subject: Hartoy Tractor Trailer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12919	From: Bob	Date: 4/22/2001
Subject: Heard anything yet........
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12920	From: Al Paolozzi	Date: 4/22/2001
Subject: Re: Heard anything yet........
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12921	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 4/22/2001
Subject: Re: Heard anything yet........
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12922	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 4/22/2001
Subject: Where's the domes?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12923	From: noramz@webtv.net	Date: 4/22/2001
Subject: Smoking AF Alco
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12924	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 4/22/2001
Subject: Re: Speaking of Lionel Flyer rolling stock......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12925	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/22/2001
Subject: Re: Hartoy Tractor Trailer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12926	From: Clay Buckage	Date: 4/23/2001
Subject: Re: Gilbert Get together
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12927	From: cbuckage@stokeselectric.com	Date: 4/23/2001
Subject: Fwd: Re: Gilbert Get-Together Spring 2001 - shirts?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12928	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 4/23/2001
Subject: Cass recommendations
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12929	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 4/23/2001
Subject: B&O ALL ABOARD WEEKEND Days
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12930	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 4/23/2001
Subject: Large vs Small Motor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12931	From: David	Date: 4/23/2001
Subject: Re: Large vs Small Motor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12932	From: riechert@qwest.net	Date: 4/23/2001
Subject: Re: shirts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12933	From: sgriggs@umich.edu	Date: 4/23/2001
Subject: Re: Large vs Small Motor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12934	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 4/23/2001
Subject: large versus small motors
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12935	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 4/23/2001
Subject: ANOTHER 336 QUESTION
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12936	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 4/23/2001
Subject: How a steam engine works.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12937	From: Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S.	Date: 4/23/2001
Subject: [Commercial] Project Status at B.T.S.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12938	From: David	Date: 4/23/2001
Subject: Re: ANOTHER 336 QUESTION
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12939	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 4/23/2001
Subject: Here it is Boys, the MTH GABE the Lamplighter already on eBay!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12940	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 4/23/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] [Commercial] Project Status at B.T.S.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12941	From: TWYLA STARR	Date: 4/23/2001
Subject: 4-8-4 tender frame
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12942	From: loubaldi@aol.com	Date: 4/23/2001
Subject: Re: 4-8-4 tender frame
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12943	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 4/23/2001
Subject: Re: ANOTHER 336 QUESTION
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12944	From: Richard Cataldi	Date: 4/23/2001
Subject: Re: Large vs Small Motor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12945	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 4/23/2001
Subject: Re: Walking the halls of York
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12946	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 4/23/2001
Subject: Re: ANOTHER 336 QUESTION
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12947	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/23/2001
Subject: Re: Walking the halls of York
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12948	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/23/2001
Subject: Re: Large vs Small Motor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12949	From: Al Paolozzi	Date: 4/23/2001
Subject: Re: Large vs Small Motor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12950	From: Al Paolozzi	Date: 4/23/2001
Subject: Re: ANOTHER 336 QUESTION
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12951	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 4/23/2001
Subject: Can motor conversion kits.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12952	From: John DeFelice	Date: 4/24/2001
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12953	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 4/24/2001
Subject: NP & CHESSIE GP-20
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12954	From: Rick Evans	Date: 4/24/2001
Subject: Fwd: Reproduction AF cars (a must see)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12955	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 4/24/2001
Subject: Fwd: NP & CHESSIE GP-20
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12956	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 4/24/2001
Subject: NP SET & CHESSIE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12957	From: David A. Highfield	Date: 4/24/2001
Subject: Re: Horseshoe Curve
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12958	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 4/24/2001
Subject: Re: Horseshoe Curve
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12959	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 4/24/2001
Subject: Re: Walking the halls of York
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12960	From: Robert D Eves III	Date: 4/24/2001
Subject: S Scale wood kits
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12961	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/24/2001
Subject: Re: Walking the halls of York
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12962	From: gino restivo	Date: 4/24/2001
Subject: re ; york train shows ...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12963	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 4/25/2001
Subject: York
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12964	From: Al	Date: 4/25/2001
Subject: GILBERT HALL OF SCIENCE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12965	From: Thomas Stoltz	Date: 4/25/2001
Subject: Re: Can motor conversion kits.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12966	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/25/2001
Subject: Looking for Ross H. Tipps in So. Calif.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12967	From: Rick Evans	Date: 4/26/2001
Subject: Re: GILBERT HALL OF SCIENCE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12968	From: busyboy	Date: 4/26/2001
Subject: ross6120hank@a0l.com
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12969	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/26/2001
Subject: Re: ross6120hank@a0l.com
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12970	From: wayne broadhead	Date: 4/26/2001
Subject: Gabe the Lamplighter
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12971	From: Tom Robichaud	Date: 4/26/2001
Subject: Re: Gabe the Lamplighter
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12972	From: Al Paolozzi	Date: 4/26/2001
Subject: Re: Gabe the Lamplighter
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12973	From: busyboy	Date: 4/26/2001
Subject: Re: ross6120hank@a0l.com
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12974	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/26/2001
Subject: Re: ross6120hank@a0l.com
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12975	From: David	Date: 4/27/2001
Subject: YORK!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12976	From: David	Date: 4/27/2001
Subject: 695 Reverse Loop Relay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12977	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 4/27/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12978	From: wayned9@msn.com	Date: 4/27/2001
Subject: transformers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12979	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 4/28/2001
Subject: Replacement can motors
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12980	From: Walt Danylak	Date: 4/28/2001
Subject: Re: YORK!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12981	From: David	Date: 4/28/2001
Subject: Re: 695 Reverse Loop Relay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12982	From: wayne broadhead	Date: 4/28/2001
Subject: Does anyone have Joe's Train Shoppe's phone?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12983	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 4/28/2001
Subject: test
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12984	From: wayne broadhead	Date: 4/28/2001
Subject: Thank you
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12985	From: Rick Evans	Date: 4/28/2001
Subject: To the Sunday nite chat gang.....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12986	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/28/2001
Subject: Re: To the Sunday nite chat gang.....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12987	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 4/29/2001
Subject: Re: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12988	From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi	Date: 4/29/2001
Subject: Accessories
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12989	From: Walt Danylak	Date: 4/29/2001
Subject: Fwd: Re: NYC Empire State Express
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12990	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 4/29/2001
Subject: 695 track trips
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12991	From: sgriggs@umich.edu	Date: 4/29/2001
Subject: Command Control
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12992	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/29/2001
Subject: Re: 695 track trips
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12993	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 4/29/2001
Subject: Lost or Stolen Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12994	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 4/29/2001
Subject: Re: ANOTHER 336 QUESTION
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12995	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 4/29/2001
Subject: Re: YORK!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12996	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 4/29/2001
Subject: Re: YORK!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12997	From: David	Date: 4/29/2001
Subject: Re: ANOTHER 336 QUESTION
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12998	From: David Garber	Date: 4/29/2001
Subject: York and Gabe
Group: S-Trains	Message: 12999	From: David	Date: 4/29/2001
Subject: Re: YORK!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13000	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 4/29/2001
Subject: Re: Lost or Stolen Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13001	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 4/29/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13002	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 4/29/2001
Subject: Lost or Stolen Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13003	From: David Garber	Date: 4/29/2001
Subject: 335-336
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13004	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 4/29/2001
Subject: Re: Lost or Stolen Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13005	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 4/29/2001
Subject: Re: Lost or Stolen Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13006	From: Gerry Evans	Date: 4/29/2001
Subject: Re: Lost or Stolen Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13007	From: David	Date: 4/29/2001
Subject: New AF Steam On The Horizon??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13008	From: Walt Danylak	Date: 4/29/2001
Subject: Re: NYC Empire State Express
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13009	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 4/29/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] New "S"tuff
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13010	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 4/29/2001
Subject: TRAIN STORE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13011	From: Rick Evans	Date: 4/29/2001
Subject: Re: Lost or Stolen Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13012	From: Rick Evans	Date: 4/29/2001
Subject: Re: Lost or Stolen Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13013	From: Bill Frazier	Date: 4/29/2001
Subject: Re: Command Control
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13014	From: rbashista@yahoo.com	Date: 4/29/2001
Subject: Budd shipments
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13015	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 4/30/2001
Subject: York report
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13016	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 4/30/2001
Subject: Update on Lost Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13017	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/30/2001
Subject: Re: Update on Lost Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13018	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 4/30/2001
Subject: LIONEL Display
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13019	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 4/30/2001
Subject: Re: Update on Lost Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13020	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 4/30/2001
Subject: Re: Update on Lost Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13021	From: David A. Highfield	Date: 4/30/2001
Subject: Williamsburg, VA display
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13022	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 4/30/2001
Subject: Re: Update on Lost Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13023	From: Al	Date: 4/30/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 998
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13024	From: Greg Wilson	Date: 4/30/2001
Subject: Better way to find trains and other collectables on eBay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13025	From: Bill Lane	Date: 4/30/2001
Subject: Enhorning Items for sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13026	From: John Foley	Date: 4/30/2001
Subject: Steamtown model contest
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13027	From: Eugene Steffan	Date: 5/1/2001
Subject: Re: Coal loads......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13028	From: Bob	Date: 5/1/2001
Subject: 30-9120 "Gabe"
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13029	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 5/1/2001
Subject: Preserving the past
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13030	From: John Foley	Date: 5/1/2001
Subject: Programs and Tours at Steamtown
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13031	From: Bob	Date: 5/1/2001
Subject: BEFORE I UPSET EVERYONE.......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13032	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/1/2001
Subject: Re: Preserving the past
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13033	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 5/1/2001
Subject: Preserving the past
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13034	From: David	Date: 5/1/2001
Subject: Re: BEFORE I UPSET EVERYONE.......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13035	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 5/2/2001
Subject: What happen to the list?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13036	From: Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S.	Date: 5/2/2001
Subject: B.T.S. New Phone Number In Effect
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13037	From: wayne broadhead	Date: 5/2/2001
Subject: Re: What happen to the list?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13038	From: Bill Frazier	Date: 5/2/2001
Subject: Re: Preserving the past
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13039	From: John Foley	Date: 5/2/2001
Subject: Fwd: Model Railroading Magazine
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13040	From: John Foley	Date: 5/2/2001
Subject: Fwd: Model Railroading Magazine
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13041	From: John Foley	Date: 5/2/2001
Subject: Model Railroading Magazine
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13042	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 5/2/2001
Subject: Lost Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13043	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 5/2/2001
Subject: Re: Preserving the past
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13044	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 5/2/2001
Subject: Re: Preserving the past
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13045	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 5/2/2001
Subject: preserving the past
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13046	From: M.McConnell	Date: 5/2/2001
Subject: Smoke fluid
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13047	From: sckubel@mindspring.com	Date: 5/2/2001
Subject: Digest Problems
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13048	From: Bill Lane	Date: 5/2/2001
Subject: Update on the Enhorning Items sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13049	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 5/2/2001
Subject: Missing the Digest
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13050	From: Alan C Udy	Date: 5/2/2001
Subject: Sam the Semaphore
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13051	From: Peck	Date: 5/2/2001
Subject: Re: UPS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13052	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 5/2/2001
Subject: Sam the Semaphore
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13053	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 5/2/2001
Subject: digest problems
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13054	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/2/2001
Subject: Re: UPS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13055	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 5/3/2001
Subject: wiring
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13056	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/3/2001
Subject: Re: UPS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13057	From: sgriggs@umich.edu	Date: 5/3/2001
Subject: Re: UPS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13058	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/3/2001
Subject: UPS-0h Bother! my mistake
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13059	From: M.McConnell	Date: 5/3/2001
Subject: Contact info for Fred Jester
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13060	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/3/2001
Subject: Re: UPS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13061	From: M.McConnell	Date: 5/3/2001
Subject: Ad for AM Empire State Express
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13062	From: mark.p.baker@bt.com	Date: 5/3/2001
Subject: D.C. VISIT
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13063	From: Peck	Date: 5/3/2001
Subject: Re: UPS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13064	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 5/3/2001
Subject: Re: UPS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13065	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/3/2001
Subject: Re: UPS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13066	From: Jim Hannawald	Date: 5/3/2001
Subject: Re: D.C. VISIT
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13067	From: busyboy	Date: 5/3/2001
Subject: Re: Update on Lost Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13068	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/3/2001
Subject: Re: Update on Lost Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13069	From: jmogil@aol.com	Date: 5/3/2001
Subject: Wanted: SHS cars #0053 CNW, 0051 UP, 0074 GG YV&N
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13070	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 5/3/2001
Subject: Re: Ad for AM Empire State Express
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13071	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 5/3/2001
Subject: Anybody...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13072	From: Michael Greene	Date: 5/4/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Historial
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13073	From: Robert Werre	Date: 5/4/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Historial
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13074	From: Gerry Evans	Date: 5/4/2001
Subject: BUDD Cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13075	From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi	Date: 5/4/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Whatza Rollie??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13076	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 5/4/2001
Subject: Conversion can motors
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13077	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 5/4/2001
Subject: Re: Preserving the past
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13078	From: Roy Inman	Date: 5/4/2001
Subject:
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13079	From: belairchevy@webtv.net	Date: 5/4/2001
Subject: MTH "Gabe" & Snow Panel Parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13080	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 5/4/2001
Subject: trains on eBay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13081	From: John Foley	Date: 5/4/2001
Subject: Fwd: Re: WEB Story
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13082	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/4/2001
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: WEB Story
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13083	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 5/4/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13084	From: busyboy	Date: 5/4/2001
Subject: Those long lost trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13085	From: Tiny	Date: 5/4/2001
Subject: Price Increase
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13086	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/4/2001
Subject: Re: Those long lost trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13087	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 5/4/2001
Subject: Help -- swap??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13088	From: Rick Evans	Date: 5/4/2001
Subject: Re: Those long lost trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13089	From: Michael Greene	Date: 5/5/2001
Subject: Updates to the NASG web site
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13090	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/5/2001
Subject: I fixed my computer clock!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13091	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 5/5/2001
Subject: Four axle trucks?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13092	From: Rick Evans	Date: 5/5/2001
Subject: Old A.C. Gilbert Flyer ads.........
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13093	From: Mike Vana	Date: 5/5/2001
Subject: Small motor 336's
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13094	From: John Foley	Date: 5/5/2001
Subject: Train Time TV show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13095	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 5/5/2001
Subject: FUTURE OF S GAUGE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13096	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 5/5/2001
Subject: Re: Those long lost trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13097	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 5/5/2001
Subject: FUTURE OF S GAUGE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13098	From: Walt Danylak	Date: 5/5/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Whatza Rollie??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13099	From: William Porter	Date: 5/5/2001
Subject: Re: Monorails and The Future
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13100	From: benevrcrgi@aol.com	Date: 5/5/2001
Subject: no subject
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13101	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 5/6/2001
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Historial
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13102	From: Walt Danylak	Date: 5/6/2001
Subject: Continental Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13103	From: William Porter	Date: 5/6/2001
Subject: ZOT Status Update
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13104	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 5/6/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13105	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 5/6/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Help -- swap??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13106	From: Scott Holm	Date: 5/6/2001
Subject: Re: Those long lost trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13107	From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com	Date: 5/6/2001
Subject: Disney Monorail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13108	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/6/2001
Subject: Re: Those long lost trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13109	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 5/7/2001
Subject: NASG ELECTION BALLOTS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13110	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 5/7/2001
Subject: ebay seller
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13111	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 5/7/2001
Subject: Re: [showcaseline] S Gauge Heralds
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13112	From: J. Paul Hartman	Date: 5/7/2001
Subject: Re: Disney Monorail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13113	From: Dave	Date: 5/7/2001
Subject: Just Arived!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13114	From: John Foley	Date: 5/7/2001
Subject: American Models E-8's
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13115	From: dthomas@eznet.net	Date: 5/7/2001
Subject: Disney Monorail Accessories
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13116	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 5/8/2001
Subject: Re: American Models E-8's
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13117	From: Douglass Allen	Date: 5/8/2001
Subject: Disney monorail train
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13118	From: Bill Lane	Date: 5/8/2001
Subject: Enhorning items - the final report
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13119	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 5/8/2001
Subject: Fwd: Preserving our Heritage
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13120	From: Mark Preman	Date: 5/8/2001
Subject: American Flyer Trains For Sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13121	From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi	Date: 5/8/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] S Gauge Heralds
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13122	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/8/2001
Subject: Lost shippments, etc.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13123	From: David Garber	Date: 5/8/2001
Subject: Lost shippments etc.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13124	From: John Foley	Date: 5/8/2001
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13125	From: Dan Brindell	Date: 5/8/2001
Subject: Re: Those long lost trains (conclusion)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13126	From: David Garber	Date: 5/9/2001
Subject: Re: Lost shippments etc.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13127	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 5/9/2001
Subject: Re: Disney Monorail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13128	From: roberte613@aol.com	Date: 5/9/2001
Subject: Re: Lost shipments etc.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13129	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/9/2001
Subject: Re: Lost shippments etc. & lost posts!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13130	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 5/9/2001
Subject: Fw: Fwd: Fw: Fw: For real: how to lower Gas Prices ..
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13131	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 5/9/2001
Subject: Fw: [S-Trains] Fw: Fwd: Fw: Fw: For real: how to lower Gas Prices ..
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13132	From: Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S.	Date: 5/9/2001
Subject: Back in Stock at B.T.S.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13133	From: John Foley	Date: 5/9/2001
Subject: Electric City Trolley Museum
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13134	From: softmoods@vcn.com	Date: 5/9/2001
Subject: July Train Show/Swap Meet
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13135	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 5/9/2001
Subject: Strasburg, PA
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13136	From: Bill Horzempa	Date: 5/9/2001
Subject: Disney Monorail & accessories How to order by phone
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13137	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 5/9/2001
Subject: GG-1
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13138	From: William Porter	Date: 5/9/2001
Subject: Re: Disney Monorail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13139	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 5/9/2001
Subject: Re: GG-1
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13140	From: johnbraker@webtv.net	Date: 5/9/2001
Subject: nynh&h colors?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13141	From: race944t@sitestar.net	Date: 5/9/2001
Subject: Atlanta
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13142	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 5/9/2001
Subject: Re: nynh&h colors?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13143	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 5/9/2001
Subject: Re: GG-1
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13144	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 5/9/2001
Subject: Sam the Semaphore 758
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13145	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 5/9/2001
Subject: Sam the Sem 758
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13146	From: David	Date: 5/10/2001
Subject: New Gabe
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13147	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 5/10/2001
Subject: Long Lost Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13148	From: Al	Date: 5/10/2001
Subject: Missing S-Trains Person
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13149	From: Douglass Allen	Date: 5/10/2001
Subject: Re: Disney monorail train
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13150	From: Al	Date: 5/10/2001
Subject: Ted Larsen
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13151	From: pieter_roos@yahoo.com	Date: 5/10/2001
Subject: Re: nynh&h colors?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13152	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 5/10/2001
Subject: AM Budds
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13153	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 5/10/2001
Subject: NASG Survey Response Form
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13154	From: John Foley	Date: 5/10/2001
Subject: NMRA Bulletin
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13155	From: Michael Greene	Date: 5/10/2001
Subject: NASG History Series
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13156	From: John Foley	Date: 5/10/2001
Subject: Nice S Layout
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13157	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 5/10/2001
Subject: TRAINS 4 SALE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13158	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 5/10/2001
Subject: E-mail address
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13159	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 5/10/2001
Subject: Joes Address
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13160	From: John Foley	Date: 5/10/2001
Subject: New Viris
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13161	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/10/2001
Subject: One diff between L and AF: was: TRAINS 4 SALE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13162	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/10/2001
Subject: my gabe is no longer lost!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13163	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 5/10/2001
Subject: Re: my gabe is no longer lost!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13164	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 5/11/2001
Subject: test
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13165	From: colin_olsen@hotmail.com	Date: 5/11/2001
Subject: AF Engine
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13166	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 5/11/2001
Subject: Re: AF Engine
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13167	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 5/11/2001
Subject: Re: AF Engine
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13168	From: myflyertrains@cfl.rr.com	Date: 5/11/2001
Subject: You're invited!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13169	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 5/11/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13170	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 5/11/2001
Subject: RRMPA
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13171	From: Ted R Larson	Date: 5/11/2001
Subject: Fw: Fw: Lament
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13172	From: Bill Lane	Date: 5/11/2001
Subject: Budd cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13173	From: wayne broadhead	Date: 5/11/2001
Subject: Gabe/operation
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13174	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/11/2001
Subject: Re: Gabe/operation & Mine's here!!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13175	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 5/11/2001
Subject: MTH Saw Mill, #600 Crossing Gate, #787 Log Loader
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13176	From: David	Date: 5/12/2001
Subject: Re: Gabe/operation
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13177	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 5/12/2001
Subject: Re: Gabe/operation & Mine's here!!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13178	From: wayne broadhead	Date: 5/12/2001
Subject: Re: Gabe/operation & Mine's here!!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13179	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/12/2001
Subject: Re: Gabe/operation & Mine's here!!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13180	From: wayne broadhead	Date: 5/12/2001
Subject: Re: Gabe/operation & Mine's here!!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13181	From: Eugene Steffan	Date: 5/12/2001
Subject: Re: Gabe/operation
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13182	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 5/12/2001
Subject: Re: Gabe/operation & Mine's here!!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13183	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 5/12/2001
Subject: Re: MTH Saw Mill, #600 Crossing Gate, #787 Log Loader
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13184	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 5/12/2001
Subject: Re: MTH Saw Mill, #600 Crossing Gate, #787 Log Loader
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13185	From: busyboy	Date: 5/12/2001
Subject: American Models New Budd Passenger Cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13186	From: Scott Kubel	Date: 5/12/2001
Subject: AF 293
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13187	From: Walt Danylak	Date: 5/12/2001
Subject: Re: AF 293
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13188	From: Dick Kuepper	Date: 5/12/2001
Subject: Re: AF 293
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13189	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/12/2001
Subject: Re: AF 293
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13190	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/12/2001
Subject: Flyer Chat Sunday
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13191	From: Rick Evans	Date: 5/12/2001
Subject: Fwd: F-3 Warbonnet on the highway
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13192	From: busyboy	Date: 5/12/2001
Subject: lotsa e-mail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13193	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 5/12/2001
Subject: MRC 0-27
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13194	From: M.McConnell	Date: 5/12/2001
Subject: Motor repair kit images
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13195	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 5/13/2001
Subject: I'm Back!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13196	From: busyboy	Date: 5/13/2001
Subject: The Yolk's on Me
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13197	From: Jim Carnes	Date: 5/13/2001
Subject: Delivery date for AF accessories
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13198	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 5/13/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13199	From: Tom Rolfsmeyer	Date: 5/13/2001
Subject: Won't be at Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13200	From: roninscho9@yahoo.com	Date: 5/13/2001
Subject: Re: MRC 0-27
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13201	From: Clifford Manning	Date: 5/13/2001
Subject: track repair
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13202	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 5/13/2001
Subject: track repair
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13204	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 5/13/2001
Subject: Re: MRC O-27
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13205	From: Alex	Date: 5/14/2001
Subject: Re: MRC O-27
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13206	From: D Simon	Date: 5/14/2001
Subject: Help needed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13207	From: Walt Danylak	Date: 5/14/2001
Subject: Is There a AF Catalog Expert Out There?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13208	From: riechert@qwest.net	Date: 5/14/2001
Subject: Re: Delivery date for AF accessories
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13209	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 5/14/2001
Subject: Re: track repair
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13210	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/14/2001
Subject: Gee, wish I'd found one of these in the attic
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13211	From: Rick Evans	Date: 5/14/2001
Subject: Re: Is There a AF Catalog Expert Out There?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13212	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 5/14/2001
Subject: NASG ELECTION & SURVEY
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13213	From: Jim Carnes	Date: 5/14/2001
Subject: Re: Delivery date for AF accessories
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13214	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 5/14/2001
Subject: Re: Gee, wish I'd found one of these in the attic
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13216	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 5/14/2001
Subject: Re: MRC O-27
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13217	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 5/14/2001
Subject: Long Lost Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13218	From: roninscho9@yahoo.com	Date: 5/14/2001
Subject: Re: MRC 0-27
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13219	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/14/2001
Subject: Re: Long Lost Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13220	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/14/2001
Subject: Re: Gee, wish I'd found one of these in the attic
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13221	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/14/2001
Subject: Re: Is There a AF Catalog Expert Out There?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13222	From: mk607@netzero.net	Date: 5/14/2001
Subject: smoke caps....help!!!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13223	From: sgriggs@umich.edu	Date: 5/14/2001
Subject: Re: Gee, wish I'd found one of these in the attic
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13224	From: d.garber@home.com	Date: 5/14/2001
Subject: smoke caps ...help
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13225	From: TWYLA STARR	Date: 5/14/2001
Subject: 720-720A Switches
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13226	From: roninscho9@yahoo.com	Date: 5/14/2001
Subject: smoke caps
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13227	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 5/14/2001
Subject: Re: 720-720A Switches
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13228	From: roninscho9@yahoo.com	Date: 5/14/2001
Subject: Re: 720-720A Switches
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13229	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/14/2001
Subject: Re: 720-720A Switches
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13230	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 5/14/2001
Subject: Smoke Caps
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13231	From: Rick Evans	Date: 5/15/2001
Subject: Re: Is There a AF Catalog Expert Out There?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13232	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 5/15/2001
Subject: Re: RENEWING NASG MEMBERSHIP
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13233	From: Richard J. Nicholls	Date: 5/15/2001
Subject: Disney Monorail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13234	From: Alex	Date: 5/15/2001
Subject: Re: MRC 0-27
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13235	From: Scott Holm	Date: 5/15/2001
Subject: Whistle controls
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13236	From: Rick Evans	Date: 5/15/2001
Subject: Re: RENEWING NASG MEMBERSHIP
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13237	From: Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S.	Date: 5/15/2001
Subject: [Advertisment] BL2 Photos and Delivery Schedule
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13238	From: Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S.	Date: 5/15/2001
Subject: [Fwd: [S-Scale] BL2 Decals]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13239	From: Dick Kuepper	Date: 5/15/2001
Subject: Re: [showcaseline] Disney Monorail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13240	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 5/15/2001
Subject: Re: 720-720A Switches
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13241	From: John Foley	Date: 5/15/2001
Subject: Steamtown convention cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13242	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/15/2001
Subject: Re: 720-720A Switches
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13243	From: Alan Evans	Date: 5/16/2001
Subject: All aboard for the Spring S Spree!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13244	From: Richard J. Nicholls	Date: 5/16/2001
Subject: Disney Monorail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13245	From: Alex	Date: 5/16/2001
Subject: Re: [Advertisment] BL2 Photos and Delivery Schedule
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13246	From: Scott Holm	Date: 5/16/2001
Subject: Re: Disney Monorail Pictures
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13247	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 5/16/2001
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13248	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/16/2001
Subject: Re: Disney Monorail Pictures
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13249	From: Scott Holm	Date: 5/16/2001
Subject: Re: Disney Monorail Pictures
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13250	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 5/16/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] All aboard for the Spring S Spree!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13251	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 5/16/2001
Subject: E-BAY ERROR OR WHAT????
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13252	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 5/16/2001
Subject: Re: E-BAY ERROR OR WHAT????
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13253	From: D Simon	Date: 5/17/2001
Subject: Warning
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13254	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 5/17/2001
Subject: Re: E-BAY ERROR OR WHAT????
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13255	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 5/17/2001
Subject: GG-1 auction
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13256	From: Rick Evans	Date: 5/17/2001
Subject: Re: E-BAY ERROR OR WHAT????
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13257	From: Dennis Back	Date: 5/17/2001
Subject: Copying eBAy #'s (was E-BAY ERROR OR WHAT????)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13258	From: Alex	Date: 5/17/2001
Subject: That eBay GG-1 jerk
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13259	From: belairchevy@webtv.net	Date: 5/17/2001
Subject: CSX Runaway
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13260	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 5/17/2001
Subject: CSX Runaway
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13261	From: Jacques Ollivier	Date: 5/17/2001
Subject: something to pull with
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13262	From: THOMAS C. FISHER	Date: 5/17/2001
Subject: EBay GG-1
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13263	From: John Harvey	Date: 5/17/2001
Subject: Can Motors for AF
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13264	From: busyboy	Date: 5/17/2001
Subject: Re: E-BAY ERROR OR WHAT????
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13265	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 5/17/2001
Subject: Re: E-BAY ERROR OR WHAT????
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13266	From: ron inscho	Date: 5/17/2001
Subject: CSX Runaway
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13267	From: ron inscho	Date: 5/18/2001
Subject: Fw: keep on cuting
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13268	From: ron inscho	Date: 5/18/2001
Subject: keep on cuting
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13269	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 5/18/2001
Subject: NEED A GG-1
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13270	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 5/18/2001
Subject: NEED A GG-1?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13271	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 5/18/2001
Subject: NEED A GG-1?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13272	From: Richard Gajnak	Date: 5/18/2001
Subject: Re: CSX Runaway
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13273	From: Thomas EE Hillery	Date: 5/18/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1018
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13274	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/18/2001
Subject: Re: keep on cuting
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13275	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/18/2001
Subject: Re: NEED A GG-1?--consider it reported!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13276	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 5/18/2001
Subject: GG-1
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13277	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 5/18/2001
Subject: Re: GG-1
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13278	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 5/18/2001
Subject: Re: GG-1
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13279	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 5/18/2001
Subject: GG-1/eBay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13280	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/18/2001
Subject: Re: GG-1
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13281	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 5/18/2001
Subject: TRAIN AUCTION (LIVE)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13282	From: Salaway	Date: 5/18/2001
Subject: Re: TRAIN AUCTION (LIVE)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13283	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 5/18/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13284	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 5/18/2001
Subject: Live Auction
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13285	From: John Harvey	Date: 5/18/2001
Subject: Touch Up Paint
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13286	From: mlmarmer	Date: 5/18/2001
Subject: Re: Touch Up Paint
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13287	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 5/18/2001
Subject: Re; whistle controls
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13288	From: The Reis's	Date: 5/18/2001
Subject: Re: Touch Up Paint
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13289	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 5/18/2001
Subject: Re: Touch Up Paint
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13290	From: Bill Lane	Date: 5/19/2001
Subject: GG-1 episode
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13291	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 5/19/2001
Subject: Re: Touch Up Paint
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13292	From: Peck	Date: 5/19/2001
Subject: Re: Whistle controls
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13293	From: Peck	Date: 5/19/2001
Subject: Re: Website sales list, & CAN MOTORS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13294	From: Rick Evans	Date: 5/19/2001
Subject: Re: GG-1 episode & circus loco.....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13295	From: Al Paolozzi	Date: 5/19/2001
Subject: Re: Touch Up Paint
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13296	From: sgriggs@umich.edu	Date: 5/19/2001
Subject: Re: Re; whistle controls
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13297	From: Wayne and Alice Beachy	Date: 5/19/2001
Subject: New Vehicle Sets
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13298	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 5/19/2001
Subject: GG-1 episode
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13299	From: Walt Danylak	Date: 5/20/2001
Subject: Need a Computer? (Commercial Announcement)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13300	From: Peck	Date: 5/20/2001
Subject: Re: Train-Enamel paints
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13301	From: Douglass Allen	Date: 5/20/2001
Subject: e-bay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13302	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 5/20/2001
Subject: train enamel
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13303	From: castironv8@aol.com	Date: 5/20/2001
Subject: train enamel
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13304	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 5/20/2001
Subject: Re: train enamel
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13305	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 5/20/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13306	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 5/20/2001
Subject: Chat Trouble
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13307	From: eddie rickenbacker	Date: 5/20/2001
Subject: classic model train paints
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13308	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 5/20/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1018
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13309	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 5/20/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1018
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13310	From: Alan C Udy	Date: 5/21/2001
Subject: Wrinkle Finish
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13311	From: Douglass Allen	Date: 5/21/2001
Subject: Paint
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13312	From: TPDavis7@aol.com	Date: 5/21/2001
Subject: Items for sale, downsizing my collection
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13313	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 5/21/2001
Subject: Baking Paint
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13314	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 5/21/2001
Subject: Enhorning
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13315	From: aarmstro@slonet.org	Date: 5/21/2001
Subject: Flyer Transformer #5
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13316	From: Trbngs@cs.com	Date: 5/21/2001
Subject: Re: Baking Paint
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13317	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 5/21/2001
Subject: stripping paint
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13318	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 5/21/2001
Subject: stripping paint
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13319	From: Peck	Date: 5/21/2001
Subject: Re: pAINTS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13320	From: roninscho9@yahoo.com	Date: 5/21/2001
Subject: stripping paint
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13322	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 5/22/2001
Subject: Re: stripping paint
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13323	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 5/22/2001
Subject: Layout Pix
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13324	From: jbs@misi.org	Date: 5/22/2001
Subject: Stripping paint
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13325	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 5/22/2001
Subject: Convention
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13326	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 5/22/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1022
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13327	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 5/22/2001
Subject: Re: Enhorning
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13328	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/22/2001
Subject: The CSX runaway train--Management's response--HUMOR
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13329	From: Eugene Steffan	Date: 5/22/2001
Subject: A/F Paint Color Match
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13330	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 5/22/2001
Subject: Re: A/F Paint Color Match
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13331	From: The Reis's	Date: 5/22/2001
Subject: Lionel Flyer pass cars and PA's for sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13332	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 5/22/2001
Subject: HO FLYER
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13333	From: John Harvey	Date: 5/23/2001
Subject: Touch Up Paints
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13334	From: rgajnak@earthlink.net	Date: 5/23/2001
Subject: AM E-8
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13335	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/23/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] The CSX runaway train--Management's response--HUMOR
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13336	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 5/23/2001
Subject: JOE's Train Repair
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13337	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 5/23/2001
Subject: Re: JOE's Train Repair
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13338	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 5/23/2001
Subject: TT upstages S-gauge!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13339	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 5/23/2001
Subject: Re: JOE's Train Repair
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13340	From: Douglass Allen	Date: 5/23/2001
Subject: S-Fest Patches
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13341	From: paul gibson	Date: 5/23/2001
Subject: Railpub May 15 price list
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13342	From: Wayne Broadhead	Date: 5/23/2001
Subject: Re: HO FLYER
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13343	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 5/23/2001
Subject: LTI Silver Flash set
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13344	From: Peck	Date: 5/23/2001
Subject: Re: HO Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13345	From: M.McConnell	Date: 5/23/2001
Subject: Memorial Day Weekend
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13346	From: Al	Date: 5/24/2001
Subject: Fun & Thrills video
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13347	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 5/24/2001
Subject: Vacation
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13348	From: Al	Date: 5/24/2001
Subject: Home Videos of Layouts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13349	From: Wayne Broadhead	Date: 5/24/2001
Subject: Re: Fun & Thrills video
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13350	From: John Foley	Date: 5/24/2001
Subject: Dispatch Ads
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13351	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 5/24/2001
Subject: S-trains in New Orleans
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13352	From: mlmarmer	Date: 5/24/2001
Subject: Re: S-trains in New Orleans
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13353	From: Alex	Date: 5/24/2001
Subject: Snowplow and roundhouse photos posted
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13354	From: Karl Raab	Date: 5/25/2001
Subject: All Aboard Yahoo Club
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13355	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 5/25/2001
Subject: Re: S-trains in New Orleans
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13356	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 5/25/2001
Subject: What is S's slice of the pie?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13357	From: Michael Greene	Date: 5/25/2001
Subject: Re: What is S's slice of the pie?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13358	From: Robert Werre	Date: 5/25/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1025
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13359	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 5/25/2001
Subject: Re: What is S's slice of the pie?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13360	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 5/25/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13361	From: mlmarmer	Date: 5/25/2001
Subject: Re: S-trains in New Orleans
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13362	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 5/25/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1025
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13363	From: BENJAMIN PERRY	Date: 5/25/2001
Subject: PEARL HARBOR
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13364	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/25/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] PEARL HARBOR
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13365	From: John Harvey	Date: 5/26/2001
Subject: "The Boys' Railroad Club"
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13366	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 5/26/2001
Subject: Re: PEARL HARBOR
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13367	From: rgajnak@earthlink.net	Date: 5/26/2001
Subject: Re: PEARL HARBOR
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13368	From: busyboy	Date: 5/26/2001
Subject: Re: PEARL HARBOR
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13369	From: BENJAMIN PERRY	Date: 5/26/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: PEARL HARBOR
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13370	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 5/26/2001
Subject: Re: PEARL HARBOR
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13371	From: David A. Highfield	Date: 5/26/2001
Subject: 1:64 toys for S Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13372	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 5/26/2001
Subject: Re: PEARL HARBOR
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13373	From: rgajnak@earthlink.net	Date: 5/26/2001
Subject: Movie Thoughts (was PEARL HARBOR)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13374	From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton	Date: 5/26/2001
Subject: American Flyer Meeting at 2001 TCA Convention In Chattanooga
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13375	From: John Foley	Date: 5/26/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Movie Thoughts (was PEARL HARBOR)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13376	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 5/26/2001
Subject: R.R. errors and *@%# in 'Pearl Harbor'
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13377	From: rgajnak@earthlink.net	Date: 5/26/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Movie Thoughts (was PEARL HARBOR)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13378	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/26/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Movie Thoughts (was PEARL HARBOR)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13379	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/26/2001
Subject: Re: books
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13380	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/26/2001
Subject: Re: R.R. errors and *@%# in 'Pearl Harbor'
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13381	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/26/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Movie Thoughts (was PEARL HARBOR)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13382	From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com	Date: 5/26/2001
Subject: Smoke Unit Wick: An easy way to start it.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13383	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/26/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Movie Thoughts (was PEARL HARBOR)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13384	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/26/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Movie Thoughts (was PEARL HARBOR)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13385	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/26/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Movie Thoughts (was PEARL HARBOR)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13386	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 5/27/2001
Subject: Re: F-3 deliveries
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13387	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/27/2001
Subject: New MTH stuff?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13388	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/27/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Movie Thoughts (was PEARL HARBOR)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13389	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 5/27/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1027
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13390	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 5/27/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13391	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/27/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1027
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13392	From: negative_pitch@hotmail.com	Date: 5/27/2001
Subject: Re: R.R. errors and *@%# in 'Pearl Harbor'
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13393	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 5/27/2001
Subject: reverse unit fingerboards
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13394	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 5/27/2001
Subject: LTI Solid State reverse units
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13395	From: sgriggs@umich.edu	Date: 5/27/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] PEARL HARBOR
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13396	From: ronnat@cros.net	Date: 5/27/2001
Subject: e unit fingers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13397	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 5/27/2001
Subject: Re: reverse unit fingerboards
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13398	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/27/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Movie Thoughts (was PEARL HARBOR)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13399	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 5/28/2001
Subject: Tom's question on reverser fingers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13400	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/28/2001
Subject: Re: Tom's question on reverser fingers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13401	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 5/28/2001
Subject: Re: Tom's question on reverser fingers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13402	From: TED R LARSON	Date: 5/28/2001
Subject: Mission Cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13403	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 5/28/2001
Subject: David's questions on reverser fingerboards
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13404	From: loubaldi@aol.com	Date: 5/28/2001
Subject: Re: reverse unit fingerboards
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13405	From: d.garber@home.com	Date: 5/28/2001
Subject: fingerboards
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13406	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/28/2001
Subject: Re: David's questions on reverser fingerboards
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13407	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 5/28/2001
Subject: valve gear for 336
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13408	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 5/28/2001
Subject: Re: valve gear for 336
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13409	From: dlehnhoff@hotmail.com	Date: 5/28/2001
Subject: Valve rodes etc. 336 Northern
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13410	From: davedesian@clarkus.com	Date: 5/29/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1026
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13411	From: David	Date: 5/29/2001
Subject: Re: valve gear for 336
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13412	From: Alex	Date: 5/29/2001
Subject: Re: Pix
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13413	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 5/29/2001
Subject: Wick starter tips
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13414	From: gino restivo	Date: 5/29/2001
Subject: Re: LTI Solid State reverse units
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13415	From: toby_loftus@mentor.com	Date: 5/29/2001
Subject: online source for Wahl Clipper Oil
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13416	From: Clay Buckage	Date: 5/29/2001
Subject: Re: Wick starter tips
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13417	From: Al	Date: 5/29/2001
Subject: Train Movies
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13418	From: Gator	Date: 5/29/2001
Subject: New Decals from Oddballs Decals - N, S, HO & O scales
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13419	From: mark.p.baker@bt.com	Date: 5/29/2001
Subject: KING'S CROSS RAILWAY BOOK FAIR
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13420	From: IronHorse	Date: 5/29/2001
Subject: Re: online source for Wahl Clipper Oil
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13421	From: Al	Date: 5/29/2001
Subject: Halloween Tree
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13422	From: IronHorse	Date: 5/29/2001
Subject: Anybody not getting what they paid for.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13423	From: Peck	Date: 5/29/2001
Subject: Re: Diecast vehicles
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13424	From: Dennis Conway	Date: 5/29/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: [S-Trains] Diecast vehicles
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13425	From: ljcamp1@aol.com	Date: 5/29/2001
Subject: Set box tape
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13426	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/30/2001
Subject: Re: Halloween Tree
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13427	From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com	Date: 5/30/2001
Subject: Little Rascals video
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13428	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 5/30/2001
Subject: Re: NASG AF TANK CARS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13429	From: Arden Goehring	Date: 5/30/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: [S-Trains] Diecast vehicles
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13430	From: Peck	Date: 5/30/2001
Subject: Re: "conversion items"??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13431	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 5/30/2001
Subject: Re: Diecast vehicles
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13432	From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton	Date: 5/30/2001
Subject: American Flyer function at 2001 TCA Convention in Chattanooga
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13433	From: Howell S Jobbins	Date: 5/30/2001
Subject: Re: Diecast vehicles
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13434	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 5/30/2001
Subject: Vacation over
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13435	From: joe messinger	Date: 5/30/2001
Subject: 443 Trailing Truck
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13436	From: Douglass Allen	Date: 5/31/2001
Subject: Digest 1031
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13437	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/31/2001
Subject: Re: Digest 1031
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13438	From: Rick Evans	Date: 5/31/2001
Subject: Only a test......please delete.....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13439	From: Rick Evans	Date: 5/31/2001
Subject: THAT many in "N" scale.....(die-cast survey)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13440	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/31/2001
Subject: Re: Digest 1031
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13441	From: schwallieus@yahoo.com	Date: 5/31/2001
Subject: Downs Models tank cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13442	From: John Foley	Date: 5/31/2001
Subject: Steamtown USA 2001 News
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13443	From: johnbraker@webtv.net	Date: 5/31/2001
Subject: stopping in switches
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13444	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 5/31/2001
Subject: NASG Election
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13445	From: ronnat@cros.net	Date: 5/31/2001
Subject: Re: stopping in switches
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13446	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 5/31/2001
Subject: Re: Downs Models tank cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13447	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 5/31/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Steamtown USA 2001 News
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13448	From: Gary Chidester	Date: 6/1/2001
Subject: New layout
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13449	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 6/1/2001
Subject: Downs Models
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13450	From: davedesian@clarkus.com	Date: 6/1/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1032
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13451	From: Scott Holm	Date: 6/1/2001
Subject: Re: stopping in switches
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13452	From: Douglass Allen	Date: 6/1/2001
Subject: S-Fest
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13453	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 6/1/2001
Subject: Re: Digest 1031
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13454	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 6/1/2001
Subject: Re: New layout
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13455	From: Euell Johnson	Date: 6/1/2001
Subject: Re: Downs Models tank cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13456	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 6/1/2001
Subject: Re: New layout
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13457	From: riker@webspan.net	Date: 6/1/2001
Subject: S-Helper F-3's
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13458	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 6/1/2001
Subject: GOING ON VACATION
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13459	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 6/1/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13460	From: busyboy	Date: 6/1/2001
Subject: Moviespeeds
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13461	From: dav21248@aol.com	Date: 6/1/2001
Subject: Track For New Lay-Out
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13462	From: Peck	Date: 6/1/2001
Subject: Tanktrain
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13463	From: IronHorse	Date: 6/1/2001
Subject: Re: New layout
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13464	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 6/1/2001
Subject: Re: Moviespeeds
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13465	From: M.McConnell	Date: 6/1/2001
Subject: Latest news on the Altoona K4 restoration
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13468	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 6/1/2001
Subject: Re: New layout
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13469	From: TPDavis7@aol.com	Date: 6/2/2001
Subject: Temporary unsubscribe
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13470	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 6/2/2001
Subject: TEMPORARY UNSUBSCRIBE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13471	From: rxman46321@aol.com	Date: 6/2/2001
Subject: Ballast
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13472	From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton	Date: 6/2/2001
Subject: American Flyer Function at TCA Convention
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13473	From: busyboy	Date: 6/2/2001
Subject: Re: Moviespeeds
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13474	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 6/2/2001
Subject: Switch problem
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13475	From: busyboy	Date: 6/2/2001
Subject: Movies and Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13476	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 6/2/2001
Subject: Re: Moviespeeds
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13477	From: JRKRrdd@aol.com	Date: 6/2/2001
Subject: Flyer switches and engine stallings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13478	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/2/2001
Subject: Flyer switches and engine stallings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13479	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 6/2/2001
Subject: Flyer HO diner
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13480	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 6/2/2001
Subject: Flyer switches and engine stalling
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13481	From: Jim Hannawald	Date: 6/2/2001
Subject: Stringing the 944 Crane
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13482	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 6/2/2001
Subject: Re: Stringing the 944 Crane
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13483	From: busyboy	Date: 6/2/2001
Subject: Re: Moviespeeds
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13484	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 6/3/2001
Subject: AF GP-7
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13485	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 6/3/2001
Subject: Re: AF GP-7
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13486	From: ronnat@cros.net	Date: 6/3/2001
Subject: Re: AF GP-7
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13487	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 6/3/2001
Subject: Re: AF GP-7
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13488	From: Ted Walton	Date: 6/3/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1033
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13489	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 6/3/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13490	From: Neil Trump	Date: 6/3/2001
Subject: Re: AF GP-7
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13491	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 6/3/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] RDC interior kit?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13492	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 6/3/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] RDC interior kit?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13493	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 6/3/2001
Subject: Re: AF GP-7
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13494	From: Lee Johnson	Date: 6/4/2001
Subject: Chateau Martin NASG 2000 Convention car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13495	From: Mark Preman	Date: 6/4/2001
Subject: Anyone ever heard of ALROCO?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13496	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 6/4/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1034
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13497	From: eddie rickenbacker	Date: 6/4/2001
Subject: excessing stuff
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13498	From: J. Paul Hartman	Date: 6/4/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer HO diner
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13499	From: John Foley	Date: 6/4/2001
Subject: Layout on way to convention
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13500	From: Walt Danylak	Date: 6/4/2001
Subject: Digest Number ???
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13501	From: Bill Lane	Date: 6/4/2001
Subject: S Helper Service F Units
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13502	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/4/2001
Subject: MTH prices, AAAUGH!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13503	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/4/2001
Subject: Digest Number ???
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13504	From: Sam and Judy Williamson	Date: 6/5/2001
Subject: Fw: Identification please
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13505	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/5/2001
Subject: MTH prices, AAAUGH!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13506	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 6/5/2001
Subject: Re: MTH prices, AAAUGH!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13507	From: Doug Peck	Date: 6/5/2001
Subject: Re: MTH blowout
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13508	From: Wayne Broadhead	Date: 6/5/2001
Subject: Re: MTH prices, AAAUGH!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13509	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 6/5/2001
Subject: Re: Fw: Identification please
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13510	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 6/5/2001
Subject: Re: MTH blowout
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13511	From: John Foley	Date: 6/5/2001
Subject: Another layout at Scranton
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13512	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/5/2001
Subject: MTH blowout and dealer's pre-orders
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13513	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/5/2001
Subject: Re: Fw: Identification please
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13514	From: Sam and Judy Williamson	Date: 6/6/2001
Subject: Fw: Identification please
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13515	From: sigma@ecn.ab.ca	Date: 6/6/2001
Subject: Flyer prototypes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13516	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 6/6/2001
Subject: Re: Fw: Identification please
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13517	From: M.McConnell	Date: 6/6/2001
Subject: Digest Number
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13518	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 6/6/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer prototypes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13519	From: sgriggs@umich.edu	Date: 6/6/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer prototypes **SEE PHOTOS IN FILES**
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13520	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 6/6/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer prototypes **SEE PHOTOS IN FILES**
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13521	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/6/2001
Subject: Re: Fw: Identification please
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13522	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/6/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13523	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 6/6/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer prototypes **SEE PHOTOS IN FILES**
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13524	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 6/7/2001
Subject: Factory closing
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13525	From: TPDavis7@aol.com	Date: 6/7/2001
Subject: re-subscribe
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13526	From: sgriggs@umich.edu	Date: 6/7/2001
Subject: Website URL for Flyer Prototype Photos
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13527	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 6/7/2001
Subject: WHAT RAILROAD TO PRODUCE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13528	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 6/7/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer prototypes **SEE PHOTOS IN FILES**
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13529	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/7/2001
Subject: Tom's re-subscribe
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13530	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/7/2001
Subject: Re: WHAT RAILROAD TO PRODUCE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13531	From: sigma@ecn.ab.ca	Date: 6/7/2001
Subject: Flyer Pacifics
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13532	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 6/7/2001
Subject: Re: WHAT RAILROAD TO PRODUCE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13533	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 6/7/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer Pacifics
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13534	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 6/7/2001
Subject: Re: [showcaseline] Seaboard???
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13535	From: John Foley	Date: 6/7/2001
Subject: NASG Convention
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13536	From: rgajnak@earthlink.net	Date: 6/8/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer prototypes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13537	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 6/8/2001
Subject: More Reading SHS Stuff!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13538	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 6/8/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer prototypes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13539	From: Scott Holm	Date: 6/8/2001
Subject: Ertl county fair on Ebay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13540	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 6/8/2001
Subject: Re: New file uploaded to showcaseline
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13541	From: alorince@yahoo.com	Date: 6/8/2001
Subject: orrvile oh depot days
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13542	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 6/8/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13543	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 6/9/2001
Subject: flyer "O"
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13544	From: Scott Brown	Date: 6/9/2001
Subject: ACSG-Manassas Heritage Railway Festival
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13545	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 6/9/2001
Subject: Irish vehicle in 1/64
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13546	From: Mike Vana	Date: 6/10/2001
Subject: Insuring your trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13547	From: TWYLA STARR	Date: 6/10/2001
Subject: A.F. 30B transformer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13548	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 6/10/2001
Subject: Re: Insuring your trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13549	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 6/10/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13550	From: howard sheffield	Date: 6/10/2001
Subject: Re: Insuring your trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13551	From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi	Date: 6/11/2001
Subject: Re: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13552	From: busyboy	Date: 6/11/2001
Subject: Re: Insuring your trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13553	From: Wayne Zebron	Date: 6/11/2001
Subject: 0-7 volts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13554	From: busyboy	Date: 6/11/2001
Subject: Re: A.F. 30B transformer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13555	From: afstrains@aol.com	Date: 6/11/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1041
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13556	From: Mark Preman	Date: 6/11/2001
Subject: American Flyer Trains For Sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13557	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 6/11/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1042
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13558	From: Robert Werre	Date: 6/11/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1042
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13559	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 6/11/2001
Subject: A.F. 30B transformer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13560	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 6/11/2001
Subject: Live Steam near Baltimore
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13561	From: SCrabTiger@aol.com	Date: 6/11/2001
Subject: 1990 AF Christmas Car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13562	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/11/2001
Subject: Re: A.F. 30B transformer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13563	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 6/11/2001
Subject: 30B TRANSFORMER
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13564	From: sigma@ecn.ab.ca	Date: 6/11/2001
Subject: prototypes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13565	From: Bill Lane	Date: 6/11/2001
Subject: S Helper Service Hirail wheels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13566	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 6/11/2001
Subject: Re: Insuring your trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13567	From: Robert W. Jackson	Date: 6/11/2001
Subject: Invitation to Visit
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13568	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 6/12/2001
Subject: Re: A.F. 30B transformer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13569	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 6/12/2001
Subject: 18-B bulb cover colors
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13570	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 6/12/2001
Subject: Re: BACK D=FROM VACATION PLEASE RE SUBSCRIBE ME.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13571	From: rxman46321@aol.com	Date: 6/12/2001
Subject: A-M F7 shell
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13572	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 6/12/2001
Subject: AF diesel armature bearings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13573	From: David	Date: 6/12/2001
Subject: Re: AF diesel armature bearings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13574	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 6/12/2001
Subject: New file uploaded to S-Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13575	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 6/12/2001
Subject: Dinner Date?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13576	From: Gonzalo Fernández Gómez	Date: 6/12/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1043
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13577	From: Hannon	Date: 6/12/2001
Subject: A.C.Gilbert S-Gauge Manual
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13578	From: gino restivo	Date: 6/12/2001
Subject: Re: AF diesel armature bearings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13579	From: gino restivo	Date: 6/12/2001
Subject: Re: 443 Trailing Truck
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13580	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 6/12/2001
Subject: Re: A.C.Gilbert S-Gauge Manual
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13581	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/12/2001
Subject: Re: A.C.Gilbert S-Gauge Manual
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13582	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 6/13/2001
Subject: Poll results for S-Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13583	From: gino restivo	Date: 6/13/2001
Subject: Re: A.C.Gilbert S-Gauge Manual
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13584	From: Hannon	Date: 6/13/2001
Subject: Re: A.C.Gilbert S-Gauge Manual
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13585	From: softmoods@vcn.com	Date: 6/13/2001
Subject: July Train Show/Swap Meet
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13586	From: Neimanis,V. [NCR]	Date: 6/13/2001
Subject: 18B bulb covers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13587	From: Donald Abrams	Date: 6/13/2001
Subject: Diesel Armature Bearings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13588	From: Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S.	Date: 6/13/2001
Subject: New Classified Ads Posted
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13589	From: gino restivo	Date: 6/13/2001
Subject: Re: A.C.Gilbert S-Gauge Manual , part use
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13590	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 6/13/2001
Subject: gabe release solenoid
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13591	From: gino restivo	Date: 6/13/2001
Subject: Re: gabe release solenoid , thanks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13592	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 6/13/2001
Subject: Re: Diesel Armature Bearings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13593	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 6/13/2001
Subject: diesel armature bearing
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13594	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 6/14/2001
Subject: 720A SW parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13595	From: busyboy	Date: 6/14/2001
Subject: USRA Pacifics
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13596	From: Neil Trump	Date: 6/14/2001
Subject: 600 crossing gate
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13597	From: Hannon	Date: 6/14/2001
Subject: A.C.Gilbert Survey ... NAME NOT ON FINAL POLL LIST
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13598	From: Donald Abrams	Date: 6/14/2001
Subject: diesel armature bearings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13599	From: joeawood@aol.com	Date: 6/14/2001
Subject: Traveling
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13600	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/14/2001
Subject: Re: 600 crossing gate
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13601	From: Karl Raab	Date: 6/14/2001
Subject: Re 600 Crossing Gate
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13602	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 6/15/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13603	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 6/15/2001
Subject: diesel bell part
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13604	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 6/15/2001
Subject: eBay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13605	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 6/15/2001
Subject: Vacation
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13606	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 6/15/2001
Subject: Vacation
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13607	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 6/16/2001
Subject: testing
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13608	From: Donald Abrams	Date: 6/16/2001
Subject: 21145 0-8-0 motor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13609	From: Donald Abrams	Date: 6/16/2001
Subject: Loose driver rim tip
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13610	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 6/16/2001
Subject: Re: 21145 0-8-0 motor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13611	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 6/16/2001
Subject: Re: 21145 0-8-0 motor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13612	From: Robert Allen Conner NCARB Architect	Date: 6/16/2001
Subject: FARM SETS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13613	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 6/16/2001
Subject: Monon flat cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13614	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 6/17/2001
Subject: Re: FARM SETS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13615	From: milorod@aol.com	Date: 6/17/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1044, message #9
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13616	From: TWYLA STARR	Date: 6/17/2001
Subject: 30B Transformers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13617	From: John Foley	Date: 6/17/2001
Subject: NASG Convention News
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13618	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 6/17/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13619	From: Doug Peck	Date: 6/17/2001
Subject: Re: Diesel armature bearings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13620	From: jseltzer@larich.com	Date: 6/18/2001
Subject: Wanted: Korber S gauge Ice house & Platform kit
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13621	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 6/18/2001
Subject: OT: engineering trivia]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13622	From: BENJAMIN PERRY	Date: 6/18/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] OT: engineering trivia]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13623	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 6/19/2001
Subject: OT: Engineering trivia
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13624	From: John Foley	Date: 6/19/2001
Subject: Covention Hotels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13625	From: hsjobbins@juno.com	Date: 6/19/2001
Subject: Pics of AM E-8's on line.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13626	From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton	Date: 6/19/2001
Subject: TCA Convention in Chattanooga--American Flyer Meeting
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13627	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 6/20/2001
Subject: Model Railroad News - MRN
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13628	From: Neil Trump	Date: 6/20/2001
Subject: A good day at the auctions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13629	From: LEAHY RUTH A	Date: 6/21/2001
Subject: A.F. coal
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13630	From: dlehnhoff@hotmail.com	Date: 6/21/2001
Subject: Coal Loader Coal
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13631	From: d.garber@home.com	Date: 6/21/2001
Subject: software on E-bay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13632	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 6/21/2001
Subject: Re: software on E-bay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13633	From: David	Date: 6/21/2001
Subject: Just to make conversation...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13634	From: David Garber	Date: 6/21/2001
Subject: Re: just to make conversation
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13635	From: sigma@ecn.ab.ca	Date: 6/21/2001
Subject: Flyer Pacifics
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13636	From: Rick Evans	Date: 6/21/2001
Subject: Re: Just to make conversation...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13637	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 6/21/2001
Subject: Diner end
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13638	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 6/21/2001
Subject: Re: Just to make conversation...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13639	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 6/21/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer Pacifics
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13640	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 6/21/2001
Subject: Flyer Pacifics
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13641	From: afstrains@aol.com	Date: 6/22/2001
Subject: Re: Vinny Amato
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13642	From: John Foley	Date: 6/22/2001
Subject: Walgreens
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13643	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 6/22/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13644	From: Rick Evans	Date: 6/22/2001
Subject: Re: Plasticville Diner end
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13645	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 6/23/2001
Subject: Re: A.F. coal
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13646	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 6/23/2001
Subject: 5 digit diesels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13647	From: chalmetteref1@yahoo.com	Date: 6/23/2001
Subject: AF by LTI Union Pacific Passenger Set For Sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13648	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 6/23/2001
Subject: S Video update
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13649	From: M.McConnell	Date: 6/23/2001
Subject: Dollar off coupons
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13650	From: Scott Brown	Date: 6/24/2001
Subject: Good Reading
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13651	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 6/24/2001
Subject: Good reading
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13652	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 6/24/2001
Subject: Antivirus Protection - Off topic
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13653	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 6/24/2001
Subject: Re: Antivirus Protection - Off topic
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13654	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 6/24/2001
Subject: Flyer Pacifics
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13655	From: David	Date: 6/24/2001
Subject: Re: Antivirus Protection - Off topic
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13656	From: Robert W. Jackson	Date: 6/24/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Antivirus Protection - Off topic
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13657	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 6/24/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13658	From: John Foley	Date: 6/24/2001
Subject: Steamtown USA Schedule
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13659	From: Scott Holm	Date: 6/24/2001
Subject: Re: Antivirus Protection - Off topic
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13660	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 6/24/2001
Subject: MTH GABE EVALUATION REQUESTED
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13661	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/24/2001
Subject: Re: MTH GABE EVALUATION REQUESTED
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13662	From: Wayne Broadhead	Date: 6/24/2001
Subject: Re: MTH GABE EVALUATION REQUESTED
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13663	From: Robert Allen Conner NCARB Architect	Date: 6/25/2001
Subject: Re: Antivirus Protection - Off topic
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13664	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 6/25/2001
Subject: Re: Antivirus Protection - Off topic
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13665	From: John Foley	Date: 6/25/2001
Subject: Contest forms
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13666	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 6/25/2001
Subject: repro graphics
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13667	From: Bill Lane	Date: 6/25/2001
Subject: Frank Titman's Tracks Ahead
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13668	From: Michael Greene	Date: 6/25/2001
Subject: Re: Frank Titman's Tracks Ahead
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13669	From: loubaldi@aol.com	Date: 6/25/2001
Subject: S-Gauge Reference Manual
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13670	From: Rick Evans	Date: 6/25/2001
Subject: Re: repro graphics
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13671	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/25/2001
Subject: S-Gauge Reference Manual--WOW!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13672	From: Al Paolozzi	Date: 6/25/2001
Subject: Re: S-Gauge Reference Manual--WOW!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13673	From: Wayne Broadhead	Date: 6/25/2001
Subject: Re: repro graphics
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13674	From: Wayne Broadhead	Date: 6/25/2001
Subject: Re: S-Gauge Reference Manual--WOW!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13675	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/26/2001
Subject: Re: repro graphics
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13676	From: Scott Holm	Date: 6/26/2001
Subject: Re: Frank Titman's Tracks Ahead
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13677	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 6/26/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1057
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13678	From: sigma@ecn.ab.ca	Date: 6/26/2001
Subject: Flyer Pacific update
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13679	From: Hannon	Date: 6/26/2001
Subject: S-Gauge Reference Manual: Permanent Link
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13680	From: Ted Walton	Date: 6/26/2001
Subject: S-Gauge Reference Manual--WOW!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13681	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 6/26/2001
Subject: S-Gauge Reference Manual--WOW!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13682	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/26/2001
Subject: S-Gauge Reference Manual--what it's about
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13683	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 6/27/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1058
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13684	From: John Foley	Date: 6/27/2001
Subject: MR & S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13685	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/27/2001
Subject: Clarification on my post RE the new manual-what's it about
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13686	From: bulamatare@yahoo.com	Date: 6/27/2001
Subject: exploding mine carrier car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13687	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 6/27/2001
Subject: Re: MR & S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13688	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 6/27/2001
Subject: David Deweys desire from[S-Trains] Digest Number 1058
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13689	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 6/27/2001
Subject: Re: MR & S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13690	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 6/27/2001
Subject: Re: S-Gauge Reference Manual--what it's about
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13691	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 6/27/2001
Subject: Re: exploding mine carrier car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13692	From: Bill Lane	Date: 6/27/2001
Subject: Wabash decals
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13693	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 6/28/2001
Subject: Jester's Large motors and fields
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13694	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/28/2001
Subject: TTOS 2002 Flyer boxcar
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13695	From: John Foley	Date: 6/28/2001
Subject: New S Manufacturer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13696	From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi	Date: 6/28/2001
Subject: Bridges
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13697	From: John Foley	Date: 6/28/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Bridges
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13698	From: Hannon	Date: 6/28/2001
Subject: S-Gauge Reference Manual: Questions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13699	From: Arden Goehring	Date: 6/28/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] New S Manufacturer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13700	From: John Foley	Date: 6/28/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] New S Manufacturer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13701	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 6/28/2001
Subject: pikemaster uncoupler
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13702	From: Michael Greene	Date: 6/28/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Bridges
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13703	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 6/28/2001
Subject: Check out S-n'-S Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13704	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 6/29/2001
Subject: Re: Check out S-n'-S Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13705	From: Euell Johnson	Date: 6/29/2001
Subject: Re: S-Gauge Reference Manual: Questions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13706	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 6/29/2001
Subject: Missing Trains Return
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13707	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 6/29/2001
Subject: Pacific Rail Shops cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13708	From: John Foley	Date: 6/29/2001
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13709	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 6/29/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13710	From: mlmarmer	Date: 6/29/2001
Subject: Re: Missing Trains Return
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13711	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 6/30/2001
Subject: Tom Potthast's S-Scale layout
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13712	From: John DeFelice	Date: 6/30/2001
Subject: Spray paints
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13713	From: TED R LARSON	Date: 6/30/2001
Subject: S-MOD
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13714	From: Rick Evans	Date: 6/30/2001
Subject: we lost some members,....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13715	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 6/30/2001
Subject: spray paints
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13716	From: Al Paolozzi	Date: 6/30/2001
Subject: Re: Tom Potthast's S-Scale layout
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13717	From: Bob	Date: 7/1/2001
Subject: Lionel / A.F. Sawmill ?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13718	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 7/1/2001
Subject: The Canal
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13719	From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton	Date: 7/1/2001
Subject: American Flyer Seminar at TCA Convention
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13720	From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton	Date: 7/1/2001
Subject: Article for NASG Dispatch
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13721	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 7/1/2001
Subject: Re: Lionel / A.F. Sawmill ?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13722	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 7/1/2001
Subject: SMOKE FLUID TESTING
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13723	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 7/1/2001
Subject: Re: SHS F-3 DCC update
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13724	From: Rick Evans	Date: 7/1/2001
Subject: down to 665 members now.....Whew!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13725	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 7/1/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13726	From: dbaker221@home.com	Date: 7/1/2001
Subject: Removing 769-A bulb housing
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13727	From: Wayne Zebron	Date: 7/1/2001
Subject: Tonka
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13728	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 7/2/2001
Subject: Re: Removing 769-A bulb housing
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13729	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 7/2/2001
Subject: S-Spree Flat Car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13730	From: softmoods@vcn.com	Date: 7/2/2001
Subject: July Train Show/Swap Meet
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13731	From: Mark Preman	Date: 7/2/2001
Subject: American Flyer Trains For Sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13732	From: John DeFelice	Date: 7/2/2001
Subject: sray paints
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13733	From: John Foley	Date: 7/2/2001
Subject: Steamtown Convention News
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13734	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 7/2/2001
Subject: Updated - Tom Potthast's S-Scale layout
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13735	From: lancemccold@chartertn.net	Date: 7/2/2001
Subject: Flyer Aricraft Beacon
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13736	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 7/2/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer Aricraft Beacon
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13737	From: Scott Holm	Date: 7/3/2001
Subject: off-scale Lionel Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13738	From: ronnat@cros.net	Date: 7/3/2001
Subject: off scale lionel flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13739	From: lancemccold@chartertn.net	Date: 7/3/2001
Subject: Thanks for Aircraft Beacon Advice
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13740	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 7/3/2001
Subject: Can Motors for Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13741	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 7/3/2001
Subject: SMOKE FLUID #4
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13742	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/3/2001
Subject: Re: off-scale Lionel Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13743	From: Victor Bereskin	Date: 7/3/2001
Subject: Spray paint colors
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13745	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 7/3/2001
Subject: Re: Off scale Lionel Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13746	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 7/4/2001
Subject: Re: Off scale Lionel Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13747	From: rgajnak@earthlink.net	Date: 7/4/2001
Subject: Re: Off scale Lionel Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13748	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 7/4/2001
Subject: off scale Lionel Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13749	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/4/2001
Subject: Those closed-point frogs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13750	From: Robert W. Jackson	Date: 7/4/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Those closed-point frogs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13751	From: busyboy	Date: 7/4/2001
Subject: Re: off-scale Lionel Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13752	From: Jon Marinello	Date: 7/4/2001
Subject: Selling American Models Heavyweight Passenger Cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13754	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 7/4/2001
Subject: Independence Day
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13755	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 7/4/2001
Subject: Re: off-scale Lionel Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13756	From: mlmarmer	Date: 7/4/2001
Subject: Re: Independence Day
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13757	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 7/4/2001
Subject: Re: Independence Day
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13758	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/4/2001
Subject: Re: Independence Day--my last thoughts on it for this list
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13759	From: Alex	Date: 7/5/2001
Subject: Re: Independence Day
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13760	From: Doug Peck	Date: 7/5/2001
Subject: Re: history, etc
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13761	From: Euell Johnson	Date: 7/5/2001
Subject: Re: history, etc
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13762	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 7/5/2001
Subject: Re: history, etc
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13763	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 7/5/2001
Subject: NASG CONVENTION
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13764	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 7/5/2001
Subject: 360 rebushing
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13765	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 7/5/2001
Subject: Re: Selling American Models Heavyweight Passenger Cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13766	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 7/5/2001
Subject: Fwd: RE: Proposed Toy Category Changes on eBay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13767	From: gino restivo	Date: 7/5/2001
Subject: re , 360 / 370 rebushing
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13768	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 7/5/2001
Subject: Reponse from ebay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13769	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 7/5/2001
Subject: education and trains do mix
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13770	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 7/5/2001
Subject: history
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13771	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 7/5/2001
Subject: ebay category
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13772	From: Euell Johnson	Date: 7/5/2001
Subject: Re: history
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13773	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 7/5/2001
Subject: Re: history
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13774	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 7/5/2001
Subject: 360 rebushing
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13775	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 7/6/2001
Subject: GET BACK ON TOPIC -
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13776	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 7/6/2001
Subject: 360 rebushing
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13777	From: Jon Marinello	Date: 7/6/2001
Subject: American Models UP Heavyweight Passenger Cars For Sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13778	From: busyboy	Date: 7/6/2001
Subject: Off topic and off color
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13779	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 7/6/2001
Subject: boxes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13780	From: roberte613@aol.com	Date: 7/6/2001
Subject: MTH Hellgate Bridge
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13781	From: ronnat@cros.net	Date: 7/6/2001
Subject: mth hellgate bridge
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13782	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 7/6/2001
Subject: Flyer in the newspaper
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13783	From: Rick Evans	Date: 7/6/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer in the newspaper
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13784	From: Alan C Udy	Date: 7/6/2001
Subject: Christmas in July
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13785	From: IronHorse	Date: 7/6/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer in the newspaper
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13786	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 7/6/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13787	From: Peck	Date: 7/6/2001
Subject: Re: NASG CONVENTION
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13788	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 7/6/2001
Subject: Re: MTH Hellgate Bridge
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13789	From: wayned9@msn.com	Date: 7/6/2001
Subject: Joe's Train Repair
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13790	From: roy inman	Date: 7/6/2001
Subject: sale cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13791	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 7/7/2001
Subject: Re: Franklin Engine
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13792	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 7/7/2001
Subject: Re: history
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13793	From: Scott Brown	Date: 7/7/2001
Subject: 290 ebay ad
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13794	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 7/7/2001
Subject: Re: 290 ebay ad
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13795	From: rxman46321@aol.com	Date: 7/7/2001
Subject: A-M RS3's
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13796	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 7/7/2001
Subject: Re: A-M RS3's
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13797	From: Michael Greene	Date: 7/7/2001
Subject: Re: A-M RS3's
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13798	From: Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S.	Date: 7/7/2001
Subject: Congrats!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13799	From: Michael Greene	Date: 7/7/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] MARS Lights
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13800	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/7/2001
Subject: Re: history
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13801	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 7/7/2001
Subject: New file uploaded to S-Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13802	From: Robert Allen Conner NCARB Architect	Date: 7/7/2001
Subject: WHERE TO FIND STUFF
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13803	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 7/7/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1068
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13804	From: rgajnak@earthlink.net	Date: 7/7/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] MARS Lights
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13805	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/7/2001
Subject: Re: 290 ebay ad
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13806	From: Scott Brown	Date: 7/7/2001
Subject: Re: 290 ebay ad
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13807	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 7/7/2001
Subject: Re: sale cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13808	From: JamesIngram@track2.com	Date: 7/8/2001
Subject: FYI: New [S-Highlights] List
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13809	From: Richard J. Nicholls	Date: 7/8/2001
Subject: Train Collectors Quarterly
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13810	From: Neimanis,V. [NCR]	Date: 7/8/2001
Subject: Train Lighting Question
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13811	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 7/8/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13812	From: Robert E. Yablonski	Date: 7/8/2001
Subject: For Sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13813	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 7/8/2001
Subject: Re: National Train Show in St. Louis
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13814	From: John Foley	Date: 7/8/2001
Subject: Clinic at Steamtown Convention
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13815	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 7/8/2001
Subject: Tom Barkers book
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13816	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 7/8/2001
Subject: New file uploaded to S-Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13817	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/8/2001
Subject: Sunday Chat -missed you all!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13818	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 7/9/2001
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13819	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 7/9/2001
Subject: Franklin Loco
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13820	From: Michael Greene	Date: 7/9/2001
Subject: S Helper Service F-3's and DCC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13821	From: Bill Lane	Date: 7/9/2001
Subject: Pennsy S Models X-29
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13822	From: Rick Evans	Date: 7/9/2001
Subject: Re: The "FRANKLIN"......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13823	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/9/2001
Subject: Re: The "FRANKLIN"......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13824	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 7/9/2001
Subject: Re: The "FRANKLIN"......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13825	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 7/9/2001
Subject: Re: The "FRANKLIN"......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13826	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 7/9/2001
Subject: Franklin
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13827	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/9/2001
Subject: Re: The "FRANKLIN"......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13828	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 7/9/2001
Subject: Re: The "FRANKLIN"......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13829	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: Re: Franklin
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13830	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: Re: The "FRANKLIN"......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13831	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: Re: The "FRANKLIN"......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13832	From: David	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: Re: Franklin
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13833	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: Franklin then, how 'bout now...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13834	From: Scott Holm	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: Car numbers for LTI NP set
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13835	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: Re: The "FRANKLIN"......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13836	From: TPDavis7@aol.com	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: The Franklin
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13837	From: jbs@misi.org	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: Power Station Model for 'S'
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13838	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: Re: Car numbers for LTI NP set
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13839	From: IronHorse	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: AC Gilbert Toys ???
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13840	From: Jacques Ollivier	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: Let a child lead them
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13841	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: no mail option
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13842	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: Re: AC Gilbert Toys ?? & the Scale/Toys feud
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13843	From: ronnat@cros.net	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: rare & sharp gp 7 on e bay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13844	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1071
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13845	From: milayman@aol.com	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: Franklin and Bruce
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13846	From: busyboy	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: Re: The Great Franklin/Washington Debate
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13847	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: Re: AC Gilbert Toys ???
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13848	From: David	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: Re: AC Gilbert Toys ???
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13849	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: AM HEAVY WTS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13850	From: busyboy	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: Re: Car numbers for LTI NP set
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13851	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: Re: Car numbers for LTI NP set
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13852	From: rgajnak@earthlink.net	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: Re: The Great Franklin/Washington Debate
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13853	From: softmoods@vcn.com	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: July Train Show/Swap Meet
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13854	From: IronHorse	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: Franklin loco
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13855	From: JFrederick Roberts	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: Franklin loco
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13856	From: Doug Peck	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: Re: Gray Franklin
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13857	From: Walt Danylak	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: Re: Franklin loco
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13858	From: Walt Danylak	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: Re: The Franklin
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13859	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: Re: Franklin then, how 'bout now...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13860	From: belairchevy@webtv.net	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: Re: 60's Flyer...was it junk?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13861	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1072
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13862	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: Re: The Great Franklin/Washington Debate
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13863	From: Walt Danylak	Date: 7/11/2001
Subject: Re: 290 ebay ad Update
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13864	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 7/11/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1071
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13865	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 7/11/2001
Subject: Old-Time Train Espionage
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13866	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 7/11/2001
Subject: The Great Franklin/Washington Debate
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13867	From: Scott Holm	Date: 7/11/2001
Subject: Rare and sharp 375 on Ebay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13868	From: Scott Brown	Date: 7/11/2001
Subject: Re: Franklin Engine
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13869	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 7/11/2001
Subject: Re: Franklin then, how 'bout now...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13870	From: ronnat@cros.net	Date: 7/11/2001
Subject: Bachman On 30 eng.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13871	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 7/11/2001
Subject: PA Museum woodie
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13872	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 7/11/2001
Subject: Re: Rare and sharp 375 on Ebay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13873	From: Craig S. O'Connell	Date: 7/11/2001
Subject: Weathering Ties
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13874	From: IronHorse	Date: 7/11/2001
Subject: Re: Weathering Ties
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13875	From: Walt Danylak	Date: 7/12/2001
Subject: Re: AM HEAVY WTS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13876	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 7/12/2001
Subject: Franklin/Washington
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13877	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 7/12/2001
Subject: A Letter From Lionel
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13878	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 7/12/2001
Subject: A Letter To Lionel
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13879	From: busyboy	Date: 7/12/2001
Subject: Re: Rare and sharp 375 on Ebay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13880	From: LocoWorksJB@aol.com	Date: 7/12/2001
Subject: A letter from Lionel
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13881	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 7/12/2001
Subject: Re: A Letter To Lionel
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13882	From: TED R LARSON	Date: 7/12/2001
Subject: photos
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13883	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 7/12/2001
Subject: Re: A Letter To Lionel
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13884	From: mlmarmer	Date: 7/12/2001
Subject: Re: A Letter From Lionel
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13885	From: mlmarmer	Date: 7/12/2001
Subject: Stupidity of Lionel but legal!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13886	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 7/12/2001
Subject: Re: Rare and sharp 375 on Ebay (plus more)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13887	From: Mike Marmer	Date: 7/12/2001
Subject: Duplication of messages
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13888	From: Scott Holm	Date: 7/12/2001
Subject: Where's the diner car supposed to go?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13889	From: lancemccold@chartertn.net	Date: 7/12/2001
Subject: Track for scale and high-rail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13890	From: Robert W. Jackson	Date: 7/12/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] photos
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13891	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/12/2001
Subject: Re: Where's the diner car supposed to go?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13892	From: Damian Brindell	Date: 7/12/2001
Subject: Re: Where's the diner car supposed to go?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13893	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 7/12/2001
Subject: Where's the diner car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13894	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 7/12/2001
Subject: Lionel Letter
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13895	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 7/12/2001
Subject: Re: Stupidity of Lionel but legal!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13896	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/12/2001
Subject: Re: Stupidity of Lionel but legal!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13897	From: Rick Evans	Date: 7/12/2001
Subject: AF T-Shirts,.....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13898	From: Rick Evans	Date: 7/12/2001
Subject: Shirts again......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13899	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 7/12/2001
Subject: : Re: [S-Trains] Stupidity of Lionel but legal!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13900	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 7/13/2001
Subject: Re: AF T-shirts...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13901	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 7/13/2001
Subject: Re: AF T-shirts(Safe Attachment).
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13902	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 7/13/2001
Subject: Lionel Logo clarification
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13903	From: busyboy	Date: 7/13/2001
Subject: Re: AF T-shirts...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13904	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/13/2001
Subject: Re: AF T-shirts...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13905	From: neil.trump@bt.com	Date: 7/13/2001
Subject: Re: AF T-shirts...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13906	From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com	Date: 7/13/2001
Subject: Big L and their stifling of Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13907	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/13/2001
Subject: Neat photo of S modeling
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13908	From: louis glumac	Date: 7/13/2001
Subject: AF WHAT IS IT?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13909	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 7/13/2001
Subject: Re: AF T-shirts...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13910	From: Ted Larson	Date: 7/13/2001
Subject: Convention
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13911	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/13/2001
Subject: Convention--Film & Digital
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13912	From: IronHorse	Date: 7/13/2001
Subject: T-shirts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13913	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 7/13/2001
Subject: WHAT IS IT?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13914	From: rgajnak@earthlink.net	Date: 7/13/2001
Subject: Re: Big L and their stifling of Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13915	From: The Reis's	Date: 7/13/2001
Subject: Re: Big L and their stifling of Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13916	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 7/13/2001
Subject: Big L
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13917	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 7/13/2001
Subject: Re: Track for scale and high-rail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13918	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 7/13/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13919	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 7/13/2001
Subject: Type 4 smoke fluid
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13920	From: BENJAMIN PERRY	Date: 7/13/2001
Subject: Re: Lionel Logo clarification
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13921	From: Damian Brindell	Date: 7/13/2001
Subject: Re: Where's the diner car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13922	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/13/2001
Subject: Big L's mold-makers, WAS: Where's the diner car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13923	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 7/14/2001
Subject: big L's mold makers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13924	From: Dick Kuepper	Date: 7/14/2001
Subject: RailArc
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13925	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 7/14/2001
Subject: Re: Big L
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13926	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 7/14/2001
Subject: Re: T-shirts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13927	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 7/14/2001
Subject: Where's the diner car Hey here is the fun!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13928	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/14/2001
Subject: Re: Where's the diner car Hey here is the fun!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13929	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 7/14/2001
Subject: Re: big L's mold makers and T-shirts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13930	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 7/14/2001
Subject: American Flyer T Shirts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13931	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 7/14/2001
Subject: L Parody
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13932	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 7/14/2001
Subject: L Parody
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13933	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 7/14/2001
Subject: Re: American Flyer T Shirts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13934	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 7/14/2001
Subject: SMOKE & LOGOS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13935	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/14/2001
Subject: SMOKE & LOGOS--My proposed logo!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13936	From: busyboy	Date: 7/15/2001
Subject: Re: Big L
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13937	From: IronHorse	Date: 7/15/2001
Subject: Re: American Flyer T Shirts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13938	From: Neil Trump	Date: 7/15/2001
Subject: Re: American Flyer T Shirts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13939	From: LEAHY RUTH A	Date: 7/15/2001
Subject: Cheyenne Train Show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13940	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/15/2001
Subject: Re: American Flyer T Shirts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13941	From: busyboy	Date: 7/15/2001
Subject: Re: T-shirts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13942	From: Nick and Becky Colleran	Date: 7/15/2001
Subject: Trademarks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13943	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 7/15/2001
Subject: new video
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13944	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 7/15/2001
Subject: Re: T-shirts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13945	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/15/2001
Subject: Re: Trademarks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13946	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 7/15/2001
Subject: 234 on eBay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13947	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 7/15/2001
Subject: Re: Trademarks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13948	From: David	Date: 7/15/2001
Subject: Re: 234 on eBay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13949	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 7/15/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13950	From: Rick Evans	Date: 7/15/2001
Subject: Re: Shirts again......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13951	From: IronHorse	Date: 7/15/2001
Subject: Re: American Flyer T Shirts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13952	From: IronHorse	Date: 7/15/2001
Subject: Re: SMOKE & LOGOS--My proposed logo!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13953	From: IronHorse	Date: 7/15/2001
Subject: Re: SMOKE & LOGOS--My proposed logo!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13954	From: IronHorse	Date: 7/15/2001
Subject: Re: SMOKE & LOGOS--My proposed logo!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13955	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 7/15/2001
Subject: Re: American Flyer T Shirts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13956	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 7/15/2001
Subject: Re: SMOKE & LOGOS--My proposed logo!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13957	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 7/15/2001
Subject: STOCK IN THE FUTURE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13958	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 7/15/2001
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13959	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/15/2001
Subject: Re: SMOKE & LOGOS--My proposed logo!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13960	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 7/15/2001
Subject: Re: T-shirts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13961	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 7/15/2001
Subject: T-Shirts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13962	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 7/16/2001
Subject: MEDS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13963	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 7/16/2001
Subject: Re: SMOKE & LOGOS--My proposed logo!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13964	From: IronHorse	Date: 7/16/2001
Subject: Buy Lying L out
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13965	From: IronHorse	Date: 7/16/2001
Subject: [Fwd: Returned mail: Service unavailable]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13966	From: bulamatare@yahoo.com	Date: 7/16/2001
Subject: Going to Las Vegas
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13967	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/16/2001
Subject: Re: Going to Las Vegas
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13968	From: Michael Greene	Date: 7/16/2001
Subject: News from the NMRA Convention & National Train Show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13969	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 7/16/2001
Subject: Re: Buy Lying L out
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13970	From: Ted Larson	Date: 7/17/2001
Subject: SMOD concerns
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13971	From: G-WOLFGANG5@JUNO.COM	Date: 7/17/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1081
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13972	From: louis glumac	Date: 7/17/2001
Subject: WANTED ROOFS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13973	From: Bob	Date: 7/17/2001
Subject: Going to N.C.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13974	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 7/17/2001
Subject: Re: Buying Lying L out
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13975	From: John Foley	Date: 7/17/2001
Subject: New S Manufacturer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13976	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 7/17/2001
Subject: Re: T-shirts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13977	From: Ted Weiler	Date: 7/17/2001
Subject: Extra Board Pg. 29
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13978	From: JRKRrdd@aol.com	Date: 7/17/2001
Subject: Microsoft Train simulator
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13979	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 7/17/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1081
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13980	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 7/17/2001
Subject: Re: T-shirts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13981	From: jseltzer@larich.com	Date: 7/18/2001
Subject: 2002 NASG National Convention
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13982	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 7/18/2001
Subject: New file uploaded to S-Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13983	From: abeachy@erols.com	Date: 7/18/2001
Subject: Library Showcase
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13984	From: Rick Evans	Date: 7/18/2001
Subject: Train stores in Minn.????
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13985	From: Richard Snook	Date: 7/18/2001
Subject: Shirts, Shorts and Shut-outs!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13986	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 7/18/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1082
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13987	From: IronHorse	Date: 7/18/2001
Subject: Re: Shirts, Shorts and Shut-outs!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13988	From: Rick Evans	Date: 7/18/2001
Subject: Fw: Metal Figures
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13989	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 7/18/2001
Subject: Re: Fw: Metal Figures
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13990	From: IronHorse	Date: 7/18/2001
Subject: Dispatchers office
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13991	From: Rick Evans	Date: 7/18/2001
Subject: Old Gilbert.....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13992	From: Rick Evans	Date: 7/18/2001
Subject: Re: Fw: Metal Figures
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13993	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/18/2001
Subject: Reat Looking Dispaly Paul ! (Was an uploaded file notice
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13994	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/18/2001
Subject: Re: Shirts, Shorts and Shut-outs!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13995	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/18/2001
Subject: Ooops, "Reat" was supposed to be "Neat" (nm)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13996	From: lapasafe@worldnet.att.net	Date: 7/19/2001
Subject: Code 172, Closed Frog Switches
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13997	From: Euell Johnson	Date: 7/19/2001
Subject: Re: Shirts, Shorts and Shut-outs!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13998	From: BENJAMIN PERRY	Date: 7/19/2001
Subject: S SPREE KRISPY KREME CARS & NASG CONVENTION
Group: S-Trains	Message: 13999	From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com	Date: 7/19/2001
Subject: Big L Stock and Hair Brained Idea.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14000	From: busyboy	Date: 7/19/2001
Subject: The endless rant about those damn shirts.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14001	From: bulamatare@yahoo.com	Date: 7/19/2001
Subject: A.F. roofs and boom
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14002	From: sgriggs@umich.edu	Date: 7/19/2001
Subject: Re: Big L Stock and Hair Brained Idea.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14003	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 7/19/2001
Subject: S History
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14004	From: aag_rlg@yahoo.com	Date: 7/19/2001
Subject: American Flyer Trademark
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14005	From: BENJAMIN PERRY	Date: 7/19/2001
Subject: Re: The endless rant about those damn shirts.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14006	From: IronHorse	Date: 7/19/2001
Subject: Re: American Flyer Trademark
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14007	From: Scott Holm	Date: 7/19/2001
Subject: Building a super motor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14008	From: dlehnhoff@hotmail.com	Date: 7/19/2001
Subject: Sacramento shops
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14009	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 7/19/2001
Subject: STOCK OF "L"
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14010	From: Euell Johnson	Date: 7/19/2001
Subject: Re: American Flyer Trademark
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14011	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 7/19/2001
Subject: researching Lionel shareholders/investors
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14012	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 7/19/2001
Subject: Re: researching Lionel shareholders/investors
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14013	From: Rick Evans	Date: 7/19/2001
Subject: AF dead...??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14014	From: roy inman	Date: 7/19/2001
Subject: Dead L
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14015	From: Bill Lane	Date: 7/19/2001
Subject: John Hall Decals
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14016	From: d.garber@home.com	Date: 7/19/2001
Subject: SIT unit
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14017	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 7/19/2001
Subject: Re: SIT unit
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14018	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 7/20/2001
Subject: TEST
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14019	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 7/20/2001
Subject: @ND TEST
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14020	From: IronHorse	Date: 7/20/2001
Subject: Re: SIT unit
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14021	From: IronHorse	Date: 7/20/2001
Subject: Re: AF dead...??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14022	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 7/20/2001
Subject: super motor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14023	From: IronHorse	Date: 7/20/2001
Subject: lying L
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14024	From: Doug Peck	Date: 7/20/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Conventions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14025	From: Damian Brindell	Date: 7/20/2001
Subject: Re: lying L
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14026	From: Damian Brindell	Date: 7/20/2001
Subject: Re: more on Lionel/Wellspring
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14027	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 7/20/2001
Subject: TM's AF2 - Good things come for those who wait.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14028	From: The Reis's	Date: 7/20/2001
Subject: Re: TM's AF2 - Good things come for those who wait.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14029	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 7/20/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14030	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 7/20/2001
Subject: Re: TM's AF2 - Good things come to those who wait.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14031	From: Euell Johnson	Date: 7/20/2001
Subject: Re: American Flyer Trademark
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14032	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 7/20/2001
Subject: New poll for S-Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14033	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 7/20/2001
Subject: Re: New poll for S-Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14034	From: ronnat@cros.net	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: A F BY Lionel
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14035	From: Rick Evans	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Re: New poll for S-Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14036	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: LIONEL LISCENSING PROGRAM
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14037	From: rgajnak@earthlink.net	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: In Defense of Lionel
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14038	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Re: Track for scale and high-rail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14039	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Re: AF dead...??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14040	From: Howell S Jobbins	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Re: New poll for S-Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14041	From: lancemccold@chartertn.net	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Points of interest near Myrtle Beach South Carolina
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14042	From: Howell S Jobbins	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Re: AF dead...??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14043	From: Howell S Jobbins	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Re: [showcaseline] Re: [S-Trains] Track for scale and high-rail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14044	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: [showcaseline] Re: [S-Trains] Track for scale and
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14045	From: Wayne and Alice Beachy	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: New Poll
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14046	From: Howell S Jobbins	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Re: In Defense of Lionel
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14047	From: Howell S Jobbins	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: [showcaseline] Re: [S-Trains] Track for scale and
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14048	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: [showcaseline] Re: [S-Trains] Track for scale and
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14049	From: Howell S Jobbins	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: [showcaseline] Re: [S-Trains] Track for scale and
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14050	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: [showcaseline] Re: [S-Trains] Track for scale and
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14051	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Kitbashing (dead AF)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14052	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Flyer tooling rumor #1A
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14053	From: honkelrs	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: American Flyer Turnout Problem
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14054	From: ronnat@cros.net	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: A F turnouts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14055	From: Jim Carnes	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Repair Advice Needed - Caboose
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14056	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: A F turnouts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14057	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Repair advice needed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14058	From: mlmarmer	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Re: Points of interest near Myrtle Beach South Carolina
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14059	From: Euell Johnson	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer tooling rumor #1A
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14060	From: ljcamp1@aol.com	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Re: AF dead...??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14061	From: Jim Carnes	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Re: Repair advice needed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14062	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer tooling rumor #1A
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14063	From: David	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Re: American Flyer Turnout Problem
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14064	From: David	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Re: Repair Advice Needed - Caboose
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14065	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Re: New Poll
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14066	From: David	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer tooling rumor #1A
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14067	From: IronHorse	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: TOYS !!! ???%3@
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14068	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Re: New Poll
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14069	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Re: LIONEL LISCENSING PROGRAM
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14070	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Re: In Defense of Lionel
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14071	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: WARNING
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14072	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Re: New Poll
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14073	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Re: TOYS !!! ???%3@
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14074	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: Re: Kitbashing (dead AF)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14075	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: Re: Kitbashing (dead AF)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14076	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: Where do we go from here?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14077	From: Rick Evans	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: Fw: AF dead...??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14078	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: Re: LIONEL LISCENSING PROGRAM
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14079	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: Re: 102 car train
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14080	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: 2 History lessons: was Kitbashing (dead AF)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14081	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: Re: 2 History lessons: was Kitbashing (dead AF)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14082	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: Fate of AF tooling
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14083	From: Rick Evans	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14084	From: Rick Evans	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: Re: New Poll
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14085	From: Rick Evans	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: Re: New Poll
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14086	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: long trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14087	From: Jim Carnes	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: Re: Fate of AF tooling
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14088	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: Re: long trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14089	From: Tom Rolfsmeyer	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: Re: long trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14090	From: IronHorse	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: Same Poll
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14091	From: IronHorse	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: Trains and Santa Clause
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14092	From: IronHorse	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: Re: Where do we go from here?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14093	From: IronHorse	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: Santa
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14094	From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: Re: Santa
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14095	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14096	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: REligion
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14097	From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: Re: REligion
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14098	From: Dan Brindell	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: Re: long trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14099	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: Re: long trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14100	From: Richard Snook	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: who would buy/sell ??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14101	From: BENJAMIN PERRY	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Conventions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14102	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: Re: long trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14103	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: Re: who would buy/sell ??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14104	From: ronnat@cros.net	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: RE trains& SANTA CLAUSE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14105	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: Re: RUDENESS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14106	From: belairchevy@webtv.net	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1088.....train wheels and curves
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14107	From: Richard Snook	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: Re: who would buy/sell ??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14108	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: test
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14109	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: test3
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14110	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: test2
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14111	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: Re: who would buy/sell ??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14112	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14113	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Re: Fate of AF tooling
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14114	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: turnouts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14115	From: Euell Johnson	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Re: who would buy/sell ??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14116	From: sgriggs@umich.edu	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Re: Fate of AF tooling
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14117	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Re: who would buy/sell ??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14118	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: REligion/RUDENESS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14119	From: IronHorse	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Re: REligion/RUDENESS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14120	From: IronHorse	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Re: who would buy/sell ??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14121	From: roberte613@aol.com	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: A turnout question
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14122	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Re: who would buy/sell ??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14123	From: Scott Holm	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: ERTL farm country train set
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14124	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Re: long trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14125	From: Tom Stolte	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: New decals from Oddballs Decals - N, HO, S & O scales
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14126	From: Euell Johnson	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Re: who would buy/sell ??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14127	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Re: Final reply; safe attachment: read only if you wish: Mr Jarcho'
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14128	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Re: REligion/RUDENESS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14129	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Fw: Returned mail: User unknown
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14130	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Re: who would buy/sell ??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14131	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Fw: Re: Final reply; safe attachment: read only if you wish: Mr Jar
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14132	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Re: REligion/RUDENESS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14133	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Special Request for your Input - Off List
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14134	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Re: A turnout question
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14135	From: IronHorse	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Re: who would buy/sell ??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14136	From: John Foley	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Virus
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14137	From: IronHorse	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Selling ideas for "S"
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14138	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: REligion/RUDENESS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14139	From: David A. Highfield	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Re: REligion/RUDENESS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14140	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Re: REligion/RUDENESS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14141	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Re: Religion and Rudeness/RUDENESS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14142	From: Richard Snook	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: a fact of life
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14143	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Re: Religion and Rudeness/RUDENESS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14144	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Re: Religion and Rudeness/RUDENESS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14145	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Re: a fact of life
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14146	From: Richard Snook	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Re: a fact of life
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14147	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Re: a fact of life
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14148	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: What I Would Want In American Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14149	From: Euell Johnson	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Re: a fact of life
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14150	From: TED R LARSON	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: stick to it
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14151	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: an apology
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14152	From: Bill Lane	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: The Pennsy S Models X-29 Pilot Model is HERE!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14153	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Re: an apology
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14154	From: Rick Evans	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Re: Would you "consider" to buy poll.....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14155	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 7/24/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1090
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14156	From: richard_snook@primus.com.au	Date: 7/24/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1090
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14157	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 7/24/2001
Subject: Re: Would you "consider" to buy poll.....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14158	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 7/24/2001
Subject: ENOUGH IS ENOUGH ALREADY...I'M OUTA HERE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14159	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 7/24/2001
Subject: Fw: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1090
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14160	From: Scott Holm	Date: 7/24/2001
Subject: MTH operating freight platform
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14161	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 7/24/2001
Subject: A turnout question
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14162	From: gpmlg@aol.com	Date: 7/24/2001
Subject: subscribe
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14163	From: IronHorse	Date: 7/24/2001
Subject: Locomotive wanted
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14164	From: G-WOLFGANG5@JUNO.COM	Date: 7/24/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1091
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14165	From: pieter_roos@yahoo.com	Date: 7/24/2001
Subject: Re: A turnout question
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14166	From: michael prell	Date: 7/24/2001
Subject: Re: ENOUGH IS ENOUGH ALREADY...I'M OUTA HERE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14167	From: yorke@gate.net	Date: 7/24/2001
Subject: Poll results
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14168	From: milayman@aol.com	Date: 7/24/2001
Subject: MTH
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14169	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/24/2001
Subject: Re: A turnout question
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14170	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 7/24/2001
Subject: Re: mr>jarcho LEAVE ME ALONE AND STOP HARASSING ME. END THIS.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14171	From: Richard Snook	Date: 7/24/2001
Subject: another idea...warning!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14172	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/24/2001
Subject: Re: MTH
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14173	From: mlmarmer	Date: 7/24/2001
Subject: Re: mr>jarcho LEAVE ME ALONE AND STOP HARASSING ME. END THIS.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14174	From: Richard Snook	Date: 7/24/2001
Subject: further to idea...had to be hey!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14175	From: Richard Snook	Date: 7/24/2001
Subject: and theres more!! ( no not steak knives)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14176	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 7/24/2001
Subject: Re: MTH operating freight platform
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14177	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 7/24/2001
Subject: Perhaps my departure is a little hasty....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14178	From: mlmarmer	Date: 7/24/2001
Subject: Re: Perhaps my departure is a little hasty....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14180	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 7/25/2001
Subject: Re: Perhaps my departure is a little hasty....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14181	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 7/25/2001
Subject: HEY
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14182	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 7/25/2001
Subject: TO Tom &evreryone else
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14183	From: mlmarmer	Date: 7/25/2001
Subject: Re: stick to it
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14184	From: Donald E. Munsey, Jr.	Date: 7/25/2001
Subject: Re: another idea...warning!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14185	From: Ronald Huesman, Jr.	Date: 7/25/2001
Subject: S Fest 2001
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14186	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 7/25/2001
Subject: Re: ENOUGH IS ENOUGH ALREADY...I'M OUTA HERE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14187	From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com	Date: 7/25/2001
Subject: "American Flyer" name registration?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14188	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 7/25/2001
Subject: AF NAME
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14189	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 7/25/2001
Subject: Looking for Cab Forward
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14190	From: jbs@misi.org	Date: 7/25/2001
Subject: SHS F3 Sound
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14191	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 7/25/2001
Subject: Re: Would you "consider" to buy poll.....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14192	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 7/25/2001
Subject: Re: "American Flyer" name registration?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14193	From: russcalla@aol.com	Date: 7/25/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1092
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14194	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 7/25/2001
Subject: Re: another idea...warning!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14195	From: David Garber	Date: 7/25/2001
Subject: deleting mail from outlook express
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14196	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 7/25/2001
Subject: Wednesday - NASG Convention Report
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14197	From: Howell S Jobbins	Date: 7/25/2001
Subject: Re: SHS F3 Sound
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14198	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 7/25/2001
Subject: A units with a bell
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14199	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 7/25/2001
Subject: ACSG Pictures
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14200	From: Robert D Eves III	Date: 7/25/2001
Subject: Re: Looking for Cab Forward
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14201	From: Tom Stolte	Date: 7/25/2001
Subject: New Decals from Oddballs Decals - N, HO, S & O scales.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14202	From: Euell Johnson	Date: 7/26/2001
Subject: Re: Would you "consider" to buy poll.....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14203	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 7/26/2001
Subject: Re: Would you "consider" to buy poll.....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14204	From: David	Date: 7/26/2001
Subject: Re: A units with a bell
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14205	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/26/2001
Subject: Whew, I got rid of the Virus! & great report Paul!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14206	From: plotnick	Date: 7/26/2001
Subject: S-fest; Cardboard buildings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14207	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 7/26/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1090
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14208	From: Richard Snook	Date: 7/26/2001
Subject: how much??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14209	From: richard_snook@primus.com.au	Date: 7/26/2001
Subject: Re: Whew, I got rid of the Virus! & great report Paul!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14210	From: t	Date: 7/26/2001
Subject: Gargraves track for sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14211	From: Peter King	Date: 7/26/2001
Subject: Canadian National Railways American Flyer Boxcar
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14212	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 7/27/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1092
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14213	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/27/2001
Subject: MTH Saw Mill & Log Loader
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14214	From: Clay Kinsner	Date: 7/27/2001
Subject: Over/under producing/selling
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14215	From: IronHorse	Date: 7/27/2001
Subject: Got something to get rid of?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14216	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 7/27/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1094
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14217	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 7/27/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1092
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14218	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 7/27/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1092
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14219	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 7/27/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14220	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/27/2001
Subject: Canadian cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14221	From: nyc17819@aol.com	Date: 7/27/2001
Subject: Re: Turnout Question
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14222	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 7/28/2001
Subject: Convention Photos
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14223	From: David Garber	Date: 7/28/2001
Subject: Canadian National
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14224	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 7/28/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1095
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14225	From: Walt Danylak	Date: 7/28/2001
Subject: Re: MTH Saw Mill & Log Loader
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14226	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/28/2001
Subject: Re: MTH Saw Mill & Log Loader
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14227	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 7/28/2001
Subject: Voltage regulator
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14228	From: Gary Chidester	Date: 7/28/2001
Subject: family man
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14229	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 7/29/2001
Subject: HISTORY CHANNEL
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14230	From: Walt Danylak	Date: 7/29/2001
Subject: Re: Voltage regulator
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14231	From: Dan Brindell	Date: 7/29/2001
Subject: Re: HISTORY CHANNEL
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14232	From: Thomas & Diane Haberman	Date: 7/29/2001
Subject: Unsubscribe
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14233	From: Scott Brown	Date: 7/29/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1096
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14234	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 7/29/2001
Subject: Re: Voltage regulator
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14235	From: Tim Brown	Date: 7/29/2001
Subject: Stockyard button
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14236	From: Thomas & Diane Haberman	Date: 7/29/2001
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14237	From: Scott Holm	Date: 7/29/2001
Subject: Re: Stockyard button
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14238	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/29/2001
Subject: flyerchat tonite!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14239	From: Alan C Udy	Date: 7/29/2001
Subject: Part Number
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14240	From: michael prell	Date: 7/29/2001
Subject: Re: HISTORY CHANNEL
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14241	From: David Garber	Date: 7/29/2001
Subject: Hudsons: In Classic Toy Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14242	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 7/29/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14243	From: rgajnak@earthlink.net	Date: 7/29/2001
Subject: No Surviving NYC Hudsons
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14244	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 7/29/2001
Subject: Re: SHS F3 Sound
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14245	From: Peter King	Date: 7/29/2001
Subject: Thank you for the help with CN rolling stock.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14246	From: Wayne Broadhead	Date: 7/29/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1096
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14247	From: Victor Bereskin	Date: 7/29/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1096
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14248	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 7/29/2001
Subject: Re: Convention Photos
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14249	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 7/29/2001
Subject: regulator
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14250	From: Michael Greene	Date: 7/30/2001
Subject: Re: Convention Photos
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14251	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 7/30/2001
Subject: Re: Convention Photos
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14252	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 7/30/2001
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14253	From: Doug Peck	Date: 7/30/2001
Subject: Re: possible virus alert
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14254	From: David	Date: 7/30/2001
Subject: Re: possible virus alert
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14255	From: David	Date: 7/30/2001
Subject: Re: possible virus alert
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14256	From: bilfrazier@aol.com	Date: 7/30/2001
Subject: Re: Autorack
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14257	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 7/30/2001
Subject: The NASG Convention
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14258	From: Scott Holm	Date: 7/30/2001
Subject: Re: possible virus alert
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14259	From: pdng@aol.com	Date: 7/30/2001
Subject: Voltage Regulator
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14260	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 7/30/2001
Subject: ALERT
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14261	From: Alex	Date: 7/30/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1096
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14262	From: Alex	Date: 7/30/2001
Subject: Radio Shack semiconductors
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14263	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 7/30/2001
Subject: Re: regulator
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14264	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 7/30/2001
Subject: Can Motor question
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14265	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 7/30/2001
Subject: Amtrak AEM7 - Best of Show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14266	From: THOMAS C. FISHER	Date: 7/30/2001
Subject: Re: HISTORY CHANNEL
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14267	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 7/30/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1096
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14268	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 7/30/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1096
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14269	From: TED R LARSON	Date: 7/30/2001
Subject: Fw: Here are my photos shared to you via clarkcolor.com.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14270	From: Richard Snook	Date: 7/30/2001
Subject: congrats Jerry
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14271	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 7/31/2001
Subject: The NASG Convention
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14272	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 7/31/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1098
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14273	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 7/31/2001
Subject: The troubling position of Mike Wolf
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14274	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 7/31/2001
Subject: A-Fossilling We Will Go!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14275	From: Mike Vana	Date: 7/31/2001
Subject: Another NYC Steam Loco exists
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14276	From: Michael Greene	Date: 7/31/2001
Subject: Re: Another NYC Steam Loco exists
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14277	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 7/31/2001
Subject: It's Grrrrrrrrrate!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14278	From: TED R LARSON	Date: 7/31/2001
Subject: Vehicle Photos
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14279	From: Donald Abrams	Date: 7/31/2001
Subject: CTT Market Basket
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14280	From: Donald Abrams	Date: 7/31/2001
Subject: September CTT Flyer Hudson article
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14281	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 7/31/2001
Subject: New file uploaded to S-Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14282	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 7/31/2001
Subject: Re: Canadian National Railways American Flyer Boxcar
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14283	From: carl@wsbt.com	Date: 7/31/2001
Subject: Geared DC motor Conversion for AF steam Locos
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14284	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 7/31/2001
Subject: Re: The NASG Convention
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14285	From: richard_snook@primus.com.au	Date: 7/31/2001
Subject: 1/64th scale toy tooling has been resurfacing lately?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14286	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 8/1/2001
Subject: Re: September CTT Flyer Hudson article
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14287	From: Douglass Allen	Date: 8/1/2001
Subject: off the topic
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14288	From: Doug Peck	Date: 8/1/2001
Subject: Re: Scranton, etc
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14289	From: michael prell	Date: 8/1/2001
Subject: Re: September CTT Flyer Hudson article
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14290	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 8/1/2001
Subject: The troubling position of AF Track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14291	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 8/1/2001
Subject: 'RAILMASTER 1969279 3/16', Made of hard rubber, 2.2IN SQR BY 1/4 I
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14292	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 8/1/2001
Subject: Re: The troubling position of AF Track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14293	From: mlmarmer	Date: 8/1/2001
Subject: Re: The NASG Convention
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14294	From: Mark Preman	Date: 8/1/2001
Subject: American Flyer Trains For Sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14295	From: mlmarmer	Date: 8/1/2001
Subject: Fw: [S-Trains] The NASG Convention
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14296	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 8/1/2001
Subject: Westerfield Poling Pockets
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14297	From: ALLAN V EISENHAUR	Date: 8/1/2001
Subject: Digest #1099
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14298	From: Kimball, Bob (CH)	Date: 8/1/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1094
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14299	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 8/1/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1096
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14300	From: Mike Vana	Date: 8/1/2001
Subject: Classic Toy Trains AF Hudson Article
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14301	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 8/1/2001
Subject: Re: A-Fossilling We Will Go!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14302	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 8/2/2001
Subject: Re: possible virus alert
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14303	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 8/2/2001
Subject: my bad
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14304	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 8/2/2001
Subject: disenchanted with CTT
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14305	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 8/2/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1100
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14306	From: Ted Larson	Date: 8/2/2001
Subject: Wire
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14307	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 8/2/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1100
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14308	From: Gregg Mummert	Date: 8/2/2001
Subject: After leaving the convention in Scranton....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14309	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 8/2/2001
Subject: so what's this?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14310	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 8/2/2001
Subject: Re: so what's this?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14311	From: pieter_roos@yahoo.com	Date: 8/2/2001
Subject: Re: so what's this?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14312	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 8/2/2001
Subject: Re: The troubling position of AF Track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14313	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 8/2/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Wire
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14314	From: David A. Highfield	Date: 8/2/2001
Subject: Fw: S guage steam engine
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14315	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 8/2/2001
Subject: Re: disenchanted with CTT
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14316	From: Mark Preman	Date: 8/3/2001
Subject: American Flyer Trains For Sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14317	From: ALLAN V EISENHAUR	Date: 8/3/2001
Subject: Digest #1099
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14318	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 8/3/2001
Subject: Re: so what's this?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14319	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 8/3/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14320	From: TED R LARSON	Date: 8/3/2001
Subject: Virus
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14321	From: Bill Lane	Date: 8/3/2001
Subject: Kadee Spiker
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14322	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 8/4/2001
Subject: Poll results for S-Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14323	From: TWYLA STARR	Date: 8/4/2001
Subject: 4-8-4 chassis bushings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14324	From: honkelrs	Date: 8/4/2001
Subject: Odd Shaped Coupler On An S-Gauge LTI Boxcar
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14325	From: Rick Evans	Date: 8/4/2001
Subject: Re: coupler problems with LTI.....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14326	From: carl@wsbt.com	Date: 8/4/2001
Subject: American Flyer Geep Power truck electrial pickup improvement.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14327	From: gino restivo	Date: 8/5/2001
Subject: Re: 4-8-4 chassis bushings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14328	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 8/5/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14329	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 8/5/2001
Subject: MY VIEW OF THE NASG CONVENTION
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14330	From: t	Date: 8/5/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1103
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14331	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 8/5/2001
Subject: Re: Track Cleaning Car Maker
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14332	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 8/6/2001
Subject: Re: Fall Get Together
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14333	From: ALLAN V EISENHAUR	Date: 8/6/2001
Subject: Digest #1101
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14334	From: ALLAN V EISENHAUR	Date: 8/6/2001
Subject: AF Service Manual on CD
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14335	From: ALLAN V EISENHAUR	Date: 8/6/2001
Subject: Digest #1101
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14336	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 8/6/2001
Subject: FW: re: The troubling position of AF Track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14337	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 8/6/2001
Subject: Re: my bad
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14338	From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi	Date: 8/6/2001
Subject: Turnout Radii
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14339	From: Mark Preman	Date: 8/6/2001
Subject: Great American Train Show This Weekend-Orlando
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14340	From: Bill Lane	Date: 8/6/2001
Subject: Pennsy S Models X-29
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14341	From: Euell Johnson	Date: 8/6/2001
Subject: Re: my bad
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14342	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 8/7/2001
Subject: Re: Fw: humor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14343	From: W. Thomas Boussum	Date: 8/7/2001
Subject: Engines, motors, and generators
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14344	From: Robert W. Jackson	Date: 8/7/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: Fw: humor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14345	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 8/7/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1105
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14346	From: Dennis Conway	Date: 8/7/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: Fw: humor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14347	From: Bill Lane	Date: 8/7/2001
Subject: Jeff Sankus
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14348	From: richard_snook@primus.com.au	Date: 8/7/2001
Subject: Another thought
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14349	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 8/7/2001
Subject: ebay category
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14350	From: Bill Lane	Date: 8/7/2001
Subject: American Models Budd cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14351	From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com	Date: 8/7/2001
Subject: 1102,1103,1104?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14352	From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com	Date: 8/7/2001
Subject: Zephyr? Deposit?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14353	From: richard_snook@primus.com.au	Date: 8/7/2001
Subject: is it me??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14354	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 8/7/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: Fw: humor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14355	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 8/8/2001
Subject: Re: Zephyr? Deposit?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14356	From: Michael Greene	Date: 8/8/2001
Subject: Re: Zephyr? Deposit?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14357	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 8/8/2001
Subject: Re: Zephyr? Deposit?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14358	From: Scott Brown	Date: 8/8/2001
Subject: TAMR
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14359	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 8/8/2001
Subject: Re: TAMR
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14360	From: IronHorse	Date: 8/8/2001
Subject: Flying Yankee
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14361	From: Michael Greene	Date: 8/8/2001
Subject: Christmas comes early to Maine Junction
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14362	From: Robert W. Jackson	Date: 8/8/2001
Subject: AF Hoppper Car Details
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14363	From: roy inman	Date: 8/8/2001
Subject: C&A logo
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14364	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 8/8/2001
Subject: Re: Zephyr? Deposit?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14365	From: Robichaud, Thomas Jr (Thomas)	Date: 8/8/2001
Subject: Re: Zephyr? Deposit?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14366	From: Stan S.	Date: 8/8/2001
Subject: Re: Zephyr? Deposit?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14367	From: TED R LARSON	Date: 8/8/2001
Subject: American Muscle
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14368	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 8/8/2001
Subject: Re: Zephyr? Deposit?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14369	From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi	Date: 8/8/2001
Subject: Spirals
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14370	From: roy inman	Date: 8/8/2001
Subject: C&A logo
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14371	From: Rick Evans	Date: 8/8/2001
Subject: Some fun vehicles for your layout.....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14372	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 8/9/2001
Subject: Re: Zephyr? Deposit?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14373	From: Stan S.	Date: 8/9/2001
Subject: Re: Zephyr? Deposit?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14374	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 8/9/2001
Subject: Re: Zephyr? Deposit?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14375	From: richard_snook@primus.com.au	Date: 8/9/2001
Subject: Re: Zephyr? Deposit? and the wheel!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14376	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 8/9/2001
Subject: Convention Pictures - Trading Floor part1
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14377	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 8/10/2001
Subject: Re: Zephyr? Deposit?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14378	From: Novak, William	Date: 8/10/2001
Subject: There's nothing like a dome
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14379	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/10/2001
Subject: Re: There's nothing like a dome
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14380	From: Novak, William	Date: 8/10/2001
Subject: Domes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14381	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 8/10/2001
Subject: eBay has a new SCALES catagory S !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14382	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 8/10/2001
Subject: TRAIN WRECKS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14383	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 8/10/2001
Subject: Re: Zephyr? Deposit? and the wheel!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14384	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 8/10/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14385	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 8/10/2001
Subject: SCALE? GAUGE?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14386	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 8/10/2001
Subject: More Scranton!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14387	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 8/10/2001
Subject: Re: SCALE? GAUGE?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14388	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 8/11/2001
Subject: Scranton Stills - Final Batch
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14389	From: Timboy@att.net	Date: 8/11/2001
Subject: Train show in Connecticut
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14390	From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi	Date: 8/12/2001
Subject: Switch Installation
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14391	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 8/12/2001
Subject: Re: Train show in Connecticut
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14392	From: Michael Greene	Date: 8/12/2001
Subject: Re: Train show in Connecticut
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14393	From: semaphoresam@yahoo.com	Date: 8/12/2001
Subject: GILBERT TOUR IN NEW HAVEN
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14394	From: Stan S.	Date: 8/12/2001
Subject: Re: Zephyr? Deposit?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14395	From: afstrains@aol.com	Date: 8/12/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1110
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14396	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 8/12/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Switch Installation
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14397	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 8/12/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14398	From: IronHorse	Date: 8/13/2001
Subject: Re: Zephyr? Deposit?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14399	From: davedesian@clarkus.com	Date: 8/13/2001
Subject: Re: Sprials
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14400	From: D Simon	Date: 8/13/2001
Subject: Help Needed 21205 F
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14401	From: Michael Greene	Date: 8/13/2001
Subject: More DCC Projects
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14402	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 8/13/2001
Subject: Diesel hp ratings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14403	From: howard sheffield	Date: 8/13/2001
Subject: Getting involved
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14404	From: Jim Carnes	Date: 8/13/2001
Subject: LTI AF GP-20 shell
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14405	From: Euell Johnson	Date: 8/13/2001
Subject: Re: Getting involved
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14406	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/13/2001
Subject: Re: Getting involved
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14407	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 8/13/2001
Subject: Getting Involved
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14408	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 8/13/2001
Subject: Re: Diesel hp ratings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14409	From: richard_snook@primus.com.au	Date: 8/13/2001
Subject: Re: Getting involved
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14410	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/13/2001
Subject: Re: Getting involved
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14411	From: gino restivo	Date: 8/13/2001
Subject: Re: Help 21205 F
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14412	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 8/13/2001
Subject: S-Gauge Video, Volume II
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14413	From: Lee Johnson	Date: 8/14/2001
Subject: Re: Getting involved
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14414	From: Lee Johnson	Date: 8/14/2001
Subject: Re: Diesel hp ratings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14415	From: Alex Sibbald	Date: 8/14/2001
Subject: 759 bell danger signal
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14416	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 8/14/2001
Subject: S GAUGE & AMERICAN LOCOMOTIVE COMPANY
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14417	From: joe messinger	Date: 8/14/2001
Subject: Pleasant Surprise
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14418	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 8/14/2001
Subject: B&O Museum 2002/3
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14419	From: Mark Preman	Date: 8/14/2001
Subject: Train Show This Weekend in Lake Worth
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14420	From: jseltzer@larich.com	Date: 8/14/2001
Subject: Buds, Domes & Economics
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14421	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 8/14/2001
Subject: Re: B&O Museum 2002/3
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14422	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 8/14/2001
Subject: make that 175th
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14423	From: Stan S.	Date: 8/14/2001
Subject: Re: Buds, Domes & Economics
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14424	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 8/14/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] RE: 2003 in B&O land
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14425	From: richard_snook@primus.com.au	Date: 8/14/2001
Subject: Youth in Modeling
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14426	From: J_Gasal@Compuserve.com	Date: 8/14/2001
Subject: Re: 759 bell danger signal
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14427	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 8/15/2001
Subject: [Fwd: Delivery Notification: Delivery has failed]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14428	From: Michael Christensen	Date: 8/15/2001
Subject: NO SEABOARD COALER? NO GABE THE LAMPLIGHTER
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14429	From: Doug Peck	Date: 8/15/2001
Subject: Re: email
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14430	From: John Foley	Date: 8/15/2001
Subject: 2001 NASG Convention car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14431	From: TPDavis7@aol.com	Date: 8/15/2001
Subject: Homasote
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14432	From: Dennis Conway	Date: 8/15/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Homasote
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14433	From: Keith B. Thompson - Sun	Date: 8/15/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Homasote
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14434	From: IronHorse	Date: 8/15/2001
Subject: Re: Homasote
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14435	From: J. Paul Hartman	Date: 8/15/2001
Subject: All Aboard Whistle
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14436	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 8/15/2001
Subject: Re: Homasote
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14437	From: Bill Lane	Date: 8/15/2001
Subject: Pennsy S Models Website updated
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14438	From: carl@wsbt.com	Date: 8/15/2001
Subject: Looking for a 343 tender.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14439	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 8/15/2001
Subject: Re: Homasote
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14440	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 8/15/2001
Subject: Stan's Final Word On Domes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14441	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 8/16/2001
Subject: Portable layout
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14442	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 8/16/2001
Subject: Portable layout con't.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14443	From: David	Date: 8/16/2001
Subject: Re: Homasote
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14444	From: Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S.	Date: 8/16/2001
Subject: Re: Homasote
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14445	From: afstrains@aol.com	Date: 8/16/2001
Subject: Re: New Haven Train Show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14446	From: David A. Highfield	Date: 8/16/2001
Subject: Re: Homasote
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14447	From: David A. Highfield	Date: 8/16/2001
Subject: Fw: [S-Trains] Homasote
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14448	From: Bob	Date: 8/16/2001
Subject: Lionel's Gabe..........
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14449	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 8/16/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1113
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14450	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 8/16/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1114
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14451	From: David Garber	Date: 8/16/2001
Subject: Re: New Haven Train Show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14452	From: Timboy@att.net	Date: 8/16/2001
Subject: Compatability with Flyer track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14453	From: JamesIngram@track2.com	Date: 8/17/2001
Subject: FYI: Computer-Controlled S-Gauge
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14454	From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi	Date: 8/17/2001
Subject: Re: Compatability with Flyer track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14455	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 8/17/2001
Subject: Show Visit
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14456	From: Tim Brown	Date: 8/17/2001
Subject: Re: Compatability with Flyer track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14457	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 8/17/2001
Subject: Re: Lionel's Gabe..........
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14458	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 8/17/2001
Subject: AF Turnouts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14459	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 8/17/2001
Subject: roadbed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14460	From: Doug Peck	Date: 8/17/2001
Subject: Re: (S-Trains)-New Haven
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14461	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 8/17/2001
Subject: AF turnouts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14462	From: Scott Holm	Date: 8/17/2001
Subject: any news on proposed stuff?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14463	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 8/17/2001
Subject: AF Turnouts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14464	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 8/17/2001
Subject: Re: roadbed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14465	From: Kimball, Bob (CH)	Date: 8/17/2001
Subject: High Rail Turnouts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14466	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 8/17/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14467	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 8/17/2001
Subject: Re: -New Haven Train Show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14468	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/17/2001
Subject: Re: AF turnouts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14469	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/17/2001
Subject: Missing Sunday Flyerchat, AGAIN!!! AUGH!!!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14470	From: John Denholm	Date: 8/18/2001
Subject: E-Bay Complaint [explaination]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14471	From: milayman@aol.com	Date: 8/18/2001
Subject: 21167?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14472	From: Bob	Date: 8/19/2001
Subject: M.T.H. Version........
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14473	From: TED R LARSON	Date: 8/19/2001
Subject: Several Subjects
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14474	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/19/2001
Subject: Heads up Northern California--REAL trains!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14475	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 8/19/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14476	From: hornickw@RMA.EDU	Date: 8/19/2001
Subject: AF 0-8-0 to Consolidation conversion
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14477	From: Tim Brown	Date: 8/19/2001
Subject: Re: High Rail Turnouts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14478	From: Don	Date: 8/19/2001
Subject: Re: question
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14479	From: Tim Brown	Date: 8/19/2001
Subject: The Gilbert factory tour
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14480	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 8/19/2001
Subject: Re: AF 0-8-0 to Consolidation conversion
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14481	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 8/19/2001
Subject: Re: The Gilbert factory tour
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14482	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 8/19/2001
Subject: Re: M.T.H. Version........
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14483	From: Tom Stolte	Date: 8/19/2001
Subject: New decals from Odballs Decals - N, HO, S & O scales
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14484	From: TED R LARSON	Date: 8/20/2001
Subject: GM&O
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14485	From: afstrains@aol.com	Date: 8/21/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1118
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14486	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 8/21/2001
Subject: 300 Atlantic Prototypes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14487	From: Rick Evans	Date: 8/21/2001
Subject: Re: NO SEABOARD COALER? NO GABE THE LAMPLIGHTER
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14488	From: Rick Evans	Date: 8/21/2001
Subject: Ebay's "S" scale..........
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14489	From: Michael Greene	Date: 8/21/2001
Subject: New Haven, CT Train Show Pictures
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14490	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 8/21/2001
Subject: A.C. GILBERT FACTORY TOUR
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14491	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 8/21/2001
Subject: New Haven train show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14492	From: Rick Evans	Date: 8/21/2001
Subject: Ebay's "S" scale.....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14493	From: David Garber	Date: 8/21/2001
Subject: ebays S scale site
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14494	From: Mark Preman	Date: 8/22/2001
Subject: The Long Awaited TM Video Volume 2
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14495	From: ALLAN V EISENHAUR	Date: 8/22/2001
Subject: Items For Sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14496	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 8/22/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Digest Number 917
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14497	From: howard sheffield	Date: 8/22/2001
Subject: Shows
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14498	From: The Reis's	Date: 8/22/2001
Subject: Items listed on EBAY
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14499	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 8/23/2001
Subject: Re: Shows
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14500	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 8/23/2001
Subject: AF video II
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14501	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 8/23/2001
Subject: B&O Museum Celebrations 2002-2003
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14502	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 8/23/2001
Subject: Layout Height
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14503	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 8/23/2001
Subject: Re: Layout Height
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14504	From: jseltzer@larich.com	Date: 8/23/2001
Subject: Train Show Sunday August 26 Parma Ohio (Cleveland Area)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14505	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 8/24/2001
Subject: Halloween Tree - available online
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14506	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 8/24/2001
Subject: TM's "AF2" - A review
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14507	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 8/24/2001
Subject: Train Tracker - A "switch"
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14508	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 8/24/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14509	From: Tim Brown	Date: 8/24/2001
Subject: Train Show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14510	From: alorince@yahoo.com	Date: 8/24/2001
Subject: Re: Train Show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14511	From: Clifford Manning	Date: 8/25/2001
Subject: repair
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14512	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 8/25/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1123
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14513	From: Bill Lane	Date: 8/25/2001
Subject: plea for more decals
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14514	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 8/25/2001
Subject: Scale on ebay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14515	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 8/25/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1123
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14516	From: Dick Kuepper	Date: 8/25/2001
Subject: Layout Ideas
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14517	From: Rick Evans	Date: 8/25/2001
Subject: To the Sunday night chat crew.......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14518	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 8/26/2001
Subject: Smoke Units
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14519	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 8/26/2001
Subject: Re: Layout Ideas
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14520	From: David	Date: 8/26/2001
Subject: Re: Smoke Units
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14521	From: Eugene Steffan	Date: 8/26/2001
Subject: Re: Scale on ebay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14522	From: Jim Carnes	Date: 8/26/2001
Subject: [Re: [S-Trains] Scale on ebay]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14523	From: Mark Preman	Date: 8/26/2001
Subject: AF Video #2 and O Gauge Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14524	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 8/26/2001
Subject: S Video Series from Steve Blackburn
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14525	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/26/2001
Subject: (Paul's posting) S Video Series from Steve Blackburn
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14526	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/26/2001
Subject: Had a great visit & plans for more!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14527	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 8/26/2001
Subject: Re: Smoke Units
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14528	From: Robert W. Jackson	Date: 8/26/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Had a great visit & plans for more!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14529	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 8/26/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14530	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/26/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Had a great visit & plans for more!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14531	From: Rick Evans	Date: 8/26/2001
Subject: Re: Smoke Units
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14532	From: Robert W. Jackson	Date: 8/26/2001
Subject: Re: Lug Nuts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14533	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/27/2001
Subject: Re: Smoke Units
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14534	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 8/27/2001
Subject: Re: Had a great visit & plans for more!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14535	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 8/27/2001
Subject: Security & Virus reminder
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14536	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 8/27/2001
Subject: Passenger car bulbs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14537	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 8/27/2001
Subject: AM Streamline K4 in CTT
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14538	From: Rick Evans	Date: 8/27/2001
Subject: Re: Passenger car bulbs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14539	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 8/28/2001
Subject: L-AF passenger car bulbs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14540	From: Bob	Date: 8/28/2001
Subject: Hershey Park.....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14541	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 8/28/2001
Subject: Re: Hershey Park.....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14542	From: Doug Peck	Date: 8/28/2001
Subject: Re: AM Hvyweight trucks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14543	From: Scott Holm	Date: 8/28/2001
Subject: Re: AM Hvyweight trucks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14544	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 8/28/2001
Subject: Re: AM Hvyweight trucks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14545	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 8/28/2001
Subject: Re: AM Hvyweight trucks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14546	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 8/28/2001
Subject: Re: Passenger Car Lamps
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14547	From: loubaldi@aol.com	Date: 8/28/2001
Subject: Re: Passenger car bulbs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14548	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 8/28/2001
Subject: AM Streamline K4 in CTT
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14549	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 8/28/2001
Subject: AM Models Heavyweights
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14550	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 8/28/2001
Subject: Re: Hershey Park.....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14551	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/28/2001
Subject: Re: Hershey Park.....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14552	From: Wayne and Alice Beachy	Date: 8/28/2001
Subject: Atlantic Coast S Gaugers Update
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14553	From: Walt Danylak	Date: 8/29/2001
Subject: AF/Gilbert Meeting at York
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14554	From: Clay Buckage	Date: 8/29/2001
Subject: Fw: Gilbert Meeting @ York
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14555	From: Doug Peck	Date: 8/29/2001
Subject: Re: Bulbs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14556	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 8/29/2001
Subject: 57
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14557	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 8/29/2001
Subject: Hershey
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14558	From: roberte613@aol.com	Date: 8/29/2001
Subject: Re: AM derailing
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14559	From: G-WOLFGANG5@JUNO.COM	Date: 8/29/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1127
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14560	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 8/29/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1127
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14561	From: LocoWorksJB@aol.com	Date: 8/29/2001
Subject: American Models 4-6-2
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14562	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 8/29/2001
Subject: AM UP HEAVYWEIGHTS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14563	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 8/30/2001
Subject: Re: American Models 4-6-2
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14564	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 8/30/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1128
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14565	From: Michael Greene	Date: 8/30/2001
Subject: B.T.S. BL2s have arrived!!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14566	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 8/30/2001
Subject: Re: AM derailing
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14567	From: gunrjoe@aol.com	Date: 8/30/2001
Subject: Track for turnouts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14568	From: IronHorse	Date: 8/30/2001
Subject: Re: Track for turnouts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14569	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 8/30/2001
Subject: "S" IS ALIVE AND GROWING
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14570	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 8/30/2001
Subject: Re: Track for turnouts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14571	From: Don	Date: 8/30/2001
Subject: Re: Flex track, PRR 155# (code 125)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14572	From: Don	Date: 8/30/2001
Subject: Re: Sound units
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14573	From: IronHorse	Date: 8/30/2001
Subject: RR web site links
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14574	From: Bill Lane	Date: 8/30/2001
Subject: Bill's Train Shop air hoses
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14575	From: mlmarmer	Date: 8/31/2001
Subject: Re: "S" IS ALIVE AND GROWING
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14576	From: IronHorse	Date: 8/31/2001
Subject: Parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14577	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 8/31/2001
Subject: Re: RR web site links
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14578	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 8/31/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14579	From: IronHorse	Date: 8/31/2001
Subject: traction & tire rims
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14580	From: carl@wsbt.com	Date: 8/31/2001
Subject: Re: traction & tire rims
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14581	From: John Foley	Date: 8/31/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14582	From: Bob	Date: 9/1/2001
Subject: Thanks Group......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14583	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/1/2001
Subject: WP train down the feathe river canyon update
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14584	From: Ross	Date: 9/1/2001
Subject: Early American Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14585	From: Clay Kinsner	Date: 9/1/2001
Subject: Re: Early American Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14586	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 9/1/2001
Subject: Re: Early American Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14587	From: HOGHEADHAT@AOL.COM	Date: 9/1/2001
Subject: Hoghead Hatwear and apparel announcement
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14588	From: Dick Kuepper	Date: 9/1/2001
Subject: Cardboard Building Interiors
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14589	From: Hannon	Date: 9/1/2001
Subject: S-Gauge Reference Manual Updates Available
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14590	From: M.McConnell	Date: 9/1/2001
Subject: WEB link exchange
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14591	From: Rick Evans	Date: 9/1/2001
Subject: S Gaugian & CTT.....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14592	From: M.McConnell	Date: 9/1/2001
Subject: Pictures from the NASG Convention
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14593	From: The Reis's	Date: 9/1/2001
Subject: Steve Blackburns S-Gauge Video #2
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14594	From: rgajnak@earthlink.net	Date: 9/2/2001
Subject: Re: S Gaugian & CTT.....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14595	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 9/2/2001
Subject: Re: S Gaugian & CTT.....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14596	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 9/2/2001
Subject: Ebay Item 163 187 8773 MTB switch system
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14597	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 9/2/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14598	From: gino restivo	Date: 9/2/2001
Subject: re ; pikemaster switchs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14599	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 9/2/2001
Subject: Re: re ; pikemaster switchs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14600	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/2/2001
Subject: WP in the Feather River canyon update
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14601	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 9/3/2001
Subject: Re: S Gaugian & CTT.....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14602	From: Don Thompson	Date: 9/3/2001
Subject: Re: "S" Quote of the week (maybe the year)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14603	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 9/3/2001
Subject: Re: "S" Quote of the week (maybe the year)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14604	From: Don Thompson	Date: 9/3/2001
Subject: Re: "S" Quote of the week (maybe the year)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14605	From: Tom Stolte	Date: 9/3/2001
Subject: New decals from Oddballs Decals - N, S, HO and O scales.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14606	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 9/3/2001
Subject: Re: "S" Quote of the week (maybe the year)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14607	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 9/4/2001
Subject: Re: S Gaugian & CTT.....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14608	From: Mark Preman	Date: 9/4/2001
Subject: American Flyer Trains For Sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14609	From: Mark Preman	Date: 9/4/2001
Subject: American Flyer Trains For Sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14610	From: davedesian@clarkus.com	Date: 9/4/2001
Subject: S Gaugian Magazine
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14611	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 9/4/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1133
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14612	From: Carl Tuveson	Date: 9/4/2001
Subject: Re: S Gaugian Magazine
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14613	From: Michael Greene	Date: 9/4/2001
Subject: Re: Magazines, authors, and publishing
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14614	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/4/2001
Subject: S Gaugian Magazine & article payment
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14615	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 9/4/2001
Subject: Publishing S Stuff
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14616	From: Charlie&Edith	Date: 9/4/2001
Subject: Repair question
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14617	From: richard_snook@primus.com.au	Date: 9/4/2001
Subject: Re: S Gaugian Magazine
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14618	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 9/4/2001
Subject: Re: S Gaugian Magazine
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14619	From: richard_snook@primus.com.au	Date: 9/4/2001
Subject: Re: S Gaugian Magazine
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14620	From: Euell Johnson	Date: 9/5/2001
Subject: Re: S Gaugian Magazine
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14621	From: joe messinger	Date: 9/5/2001
Subject: S-Gauging Articles
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14622	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 9/5/2001
Subject: Re: S-Gauging Articles
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14623	From: jfrodgers@rpb-law.com	Date: 9/5/2001
Subject: Bachman On30-Kitbashing
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14624	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 9/5/2001
Subject: New flex track for AF
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14625	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 9/5/2001
Subject: Re: Magazine Articles
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14626	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 9/5/2001
Subject: Repairs question
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14627	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 9/5/2001
Subject: Re: S-Gauging Articles
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14628	From: rgajnak@earthlink.net	Date: 9/5/2001
Subject: Re: Bachman On30-Kitbashing
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14629	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 9/5/2001
Subject: Re: "S" Quote of the week
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14630	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 9/5/2001
Subject: Re: S Gaugian
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14631	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 9/5/2001
Subject: Re: [toytrains] Digest Number 858
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14632	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 9/5/2001
Subject: Re: Repair question
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14633	From: richard_snook@primus.com.au	Date: 9/5/2001
Subject: Re: S Gaugian
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14634	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 9/5/2001
Subject: Re: S Gaugian
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14635	From: richard_snook@primus.com.au	Date: 9/5/2001
Subject: s-guagian
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14636	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 9/5/2001
Subject: Re: S Gaugian Magazine
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14637	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 9/5/2001
Subject: Re: S Gaugian
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14638	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 9/5/2001
Subject: Re: New flex track for AF
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14639	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 9/6/2001
Subject: Re: New flex track for AF
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14640	From: roy inman	Date: 9/6/2001
Subject: S-Gaugian
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14641	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 9/6/2001
Subject: Re: New flex track for AF
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14642	From: sigma@ecn.ab.ca	Date: 9/6/2001
Subject: Re: S-Gaugian
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14643	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 9/6/2001
Subject: New flex track for AF
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14644	From: Euell Johnson	Date: 9/6/2001
Subject: Re: S-Gaugian
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14645	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 9/6/2001
Subject: Re: New flex track for AF
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14646	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 9/6/2001
Subject: Re: S-Gaugian
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14647	From: Richard	Date: 9/6/2001
Subject: that mag!! lol :-)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14648	From: Ogauge749050467@aol.com	Date: 9/6/2001
Subject: 1/64 autos
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14649	From: LEAHY RUTH A	Date: 9/6/2001
Subject: MTH Buildings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14650	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/6/2001
Subject: WP in the Feather River Canyon
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14651	From: gino restivo	Date: 9/6/2001
Subject: Re: MTH Buildings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14652	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 9/6/2001
Subject: Re: MTH Buildings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14654	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 9/6/2001
Subject: Re: New flex track for AF
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14655	From: Rick Evans	Date: 9/7/2001
Subject: Re: MTH 50's style diner.....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14656	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 9/7/2001
Subject: NASG Library
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14657	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 9/7/2001
Subject: Flyer/Lionel Sawmill
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14658	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 9/7/2001
Subject: Re: MTH 50's style diner.....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14659	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 9/7/2001
Subject: Re: MTH Buildings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14660	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 9/7/2001
Subject: Catenary being hung and other news
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14661	From: Hannon	Date: 9/7/2001
Subject: Donations to NASG Library
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14662	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 9/7/2001
Subject: Re: Donations to NASG Library
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14663	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 9/7/2001
Subject: Re: Donations to NASG Library
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14664	From: Mike Vana	Date: 9/7/2001
Subject: A question about magazines
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14665	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 9/7/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14666	From: Michael Christensen	Date: 9/7/2001
Subject: American Flyer Lionel new sawmill
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14667	From: Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S.	Date: 9/7/2001
Subject: Re: A question about magazines
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14668	From: Lawrence Jackman	Date: 9/7/2001
Subject: Re: A question about magazines
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14669	From: Clifford Manning	Date: 9/7/2001
Subject: repair
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14670	From: alorince@yahoo.com	Date: 9/7/2001
Subject: train shows ohio and pennsylvania
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14671	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 9/8/2001
Subject: Niagara Falls Great American Train Show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14672	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 9/8/2001
Subject: Play nice!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14673	From: Jollivier4@cs.com	Date: 9/8/2001
Subject: fire engines
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14674	From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi	Date: 9/8/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Ground throws
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14675	From: lancemccold@chartertn.net	Date: 9/8/2001
Subject: AF #600 Crossing Gate question
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14676	From: Bob	Date: 9/8/2001
Subject: Great Photos...........
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14677	From: thomrhymer@excite.com	Date: 9/8/2001
Subject: Re: Great Photos...........
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14678	From: Michael Christensen	Date: 9/8/2001
Subject: Re: Great Photos...........
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14679	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 9/8/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Ground throws
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14680	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 9/8/2001
Subject: Re: Great Photos...........
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14681	From: Gerald Fish	Date: 9/9/2001
Subject: Re: Great Photos...........
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14682	From: wayned3@earthlink.net	Date: 9/9/2001
Subject: Rosemont Hobby Exposition
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14683	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 9/9/2001
Subject: [Fwd: Re: [S-Trains] Re: Great Photos...........]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14684	From: gunrjoe@aol.com	Date: 9/9/2001
Subject: s-trains knowlege and publishing
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14685	From: Rick Evans	Date: 9/9/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer/Lionel Sawmill
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14686	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 9/9/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14687	From: plotnick	Date: 9/9/2001
Subject: Re: Lionel (AF) Sawmill
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14688	From: lensman@erols.com	Date: 9/9/2001
Subject: AF GP-7 turns tail and runs away.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14689	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 9/9/2001
Subject: AF GP-7
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14690	From: Bill Lane	Date: 9/10/2001
Subject: S Helper Service Pennsy Flat car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14691	From: Novak, William	Date: 9/10/2001
Subject: Re: New Flex tack for AF
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14692	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 9/10/2001
Subject: Re: New Flex tack for AF
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14693	From: Ted Larson	Date: 9/10/2001
Subject: photos
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14694	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 9/10/2001
Subject: Miles off topic
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14695	From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT	Date: 9/10/2001
Subject: Re: Miles off topic
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14696	From: Scott Holm	Date: 9/10/2001
Subject: Royal Blue Passenger Cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14697	From: roberte613@aol.com	Date: 9/10/2001
Subject: Reverse Help
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14698	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 9/10/2001
Subject: Re: Miles off topic
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14699	From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT	Date: 9/10/2001
Subject: Re: Royal Blue Passenger Cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14700	From: Alex	Date: 9/10/2001
Subject: Re: Reverse Help
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14701	From: michael prell	Date: 9/10/2001
Subject: Re: New Flex tack for AF
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14702	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 9/10/2001
Subject: AF accessories on DC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14703	From: joe messinger	Date: 9/10/2001
Subject: Train Christmas Cards
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14704	From: dlehnhoff@hotmail.com	Date: 9/11/2001
Subject: DC powered action cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14705	From: David	Date: 9/11/2001
Subject: God bless their souls.....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14706	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 9/11/2001
Subject: AF accessories on DC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14707	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 9/11/2001
Subject: new york situation
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14708	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 9/11/2001
Subject: Re: AF accessories on DC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14709	From: michael prell	Date: 9/11/2001
Subject: Re: new york situation
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14710	From: Scott Brown	Date: 9/11/2001
Subject: Terrorist Attacks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14711	From: richard_snook@primus.com.au	Date: 9/11/2001
Subject: off topic :-(
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14712	From: Dick Kuepper	Date: 9/11/2001
Subject: Re: new york situation
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14713	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 9/11/2001
Subject: Re: AF accessories on DC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14714	From: Doug Peck	Date: 9/11/2001
Subject: Re: xmas cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14715	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 9/11/2001
Subject: Terrorist Attacks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14716	From: Rick Evans	Date: 9/12/2001
Subject: Re: National Railroad Museum Christmas cards....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14717	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 9/12/2001
Subject: Re: Accessories on DC power
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14718	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 9/12/2001
Subject: Off topic -- WTO and happier times
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14719	From: John Rodgers	Date: 9/12/2001
Subject: Re: Terrorist Attacks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14720	From: rhoffman@innernet.net	Date: 9/12/2001
Subject: AF Flextrack
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14721	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 9/12/2001
Subject: A Sad Topic
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14722	From: G-WOLFGANG5@JUNO.COM	Date: 9/12/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1141
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14723	From: mlmarmer	Date: 9/12/2001
Subject: Fw: [grogers-l] sad
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14724	From: Robert D Eves III	Date: 9/13/2001
Subject: Re: A note from a friend
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14725	From: Dave0616@ATT.NET	Date: 9/13/2001
Subject: Be on the lookout....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14726	From: Becker, Neil A	Date: 9/13/2001
Subject: We'll go forward from this moment
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14727	From: Gregg Mummert	Date: 9/13/2001
Subject: Fly-onel Crane
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14728	From: Mark Preman	Date: 9/13/2001
Subject: Am. Models and S-helper Collection for Sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14729	From: ron inscho	Date: 9/13/2001
Subject: Re: Fly-onel Crane
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14730	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 9/13/2001
Subject: Fwd: Fw: The barbarians will learn what America's all about
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14731	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 9/13/2001
Subject: Re: Fly-onel Crane
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14732	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 9/13/2001
Subject: Re: AF accessories on DC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14733	From: Don Thompson	Date: 9/13/2001
Subject: Re: Fall Get-Together...counting noses
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14734	From: Bruce Papky	Date: 9/13/2001
Subject: Digest # 1142 'A note from a friend'.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14735	From: roy inman	Date: 9/14/2001
Subject: Candle lighting
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14736	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/14/2001
Subject: The WP train special.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14737	From: roy inman	Date: 9/14/2001
Subject: FW: From The Miami Herald
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14738	From: Don Thompson	Date: 9/14/2001
Subject: Re: Am. Models and S-helper Collection for Sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14739	From: John Denholm	Date: 9/14/2001
Subject: off topic
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14740	From: John Foley	Date: 9/14/2001
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14741	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 9/14/2001
Subject: Re: Catenary being hung and other news
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14743	From: John Harvey	Date: 9/14/2001
Subject: condolences from "Downunder"
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14744	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 9/14/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14745	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 9/14/2001
Subject: An Open Letter to Osama Bin Laden
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14746	From: IronHorse	Date: 9/14/2001
Subject: Re: An Open Letter to Osama Bin Laden
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14747	From: IronHorse	Date: 9/14/2001
Subject: Osama Bin Laden
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14748	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 9/15/2001
Subject: Re :SPAM
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14749	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 9/15/2001
Subject: decals/transfers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14750	From: David	Date: 9/15/2001
Subject: Re: An Open Letter to Osama Bin Laden
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14751	From: Jim Carnes	Date: 9/15/2001
Subject: Re: decals/transfers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14752	From: G-WOLFGANG5@JUNO.COM	Date: 9/15/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1144
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14753	From: mlmarmer	Date: 9/15/2001
Subject: Fw: [S-Trains] Re :SPAM
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14754	From: mlmarmer	Date: 9/15/2001
Subject: Re: An Open Letter to Osama Bin Laden
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14755	From: David A. Bollinger, (Co 21 & WC4J)	Date: 9/15/2001
Subject: Re: Terrorist Attacks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14756	From: Bill Lane	Date: 9/15/2001
Subject: The X-29 is painted
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14758	From: William Porter	Date: 9/15/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1144
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14759	From: John Denholm	Date: 9/15/2001
Subject: open letter
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14760	From: Walt Danylak	Date: 9/16/2001
Subject: Interactive CDROM
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14761	From: IronHorse	Date: 9/16/2001
Subject: Off topic messages
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14762	From: Ross	Date: 9/16/2001
Subject: AF CD-ROM
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14763	From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT	Date: 9/16/2001
Subject: K -LINE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14764	From: Doug Peck	Date: 9/16/2001
Subject: Re: CD-ROM
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14765	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 9/16/2001
Subject: Convention Layouts - Help Identify
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14766	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 9/16/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1145
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14767	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 9/17/2001
Subject: S-Video's Vol. 1 and Vol. II
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14768	From: d.garber@home.com	Date: 9/17/2001
Subject: computer at workbench
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14769	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 9/17/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14770	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/17/2001
Subject: Re: Terrorist Attacks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14771	From: John Foley	Date: 9/17/2001
Subject: Re: Convention Layouts - Help Identify
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14772	From: Glenn Sarlitto	Date: 9/17/2001
Subject: Flyer/Shrink Wrapping
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14773	From: Clifford Manning	Date: 9/17/2001
Subject: sound and repair
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14774	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 9/17/2001
Subject: S-Helper Flex Track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14775	From: Dan Brindell	Date: 9/18/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer/Shrink Wrapping
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14776	From: gino restivo	Date: 9/18/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer/Shrink Wrapping
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14777	From: David	Date: 9/18/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer/Shrink Wrapping
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14778	From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT	Date: 9/18/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer/Shrink Wrapping
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14779	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 9/18/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer/Shrink Wrapping
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14780	From: ljaneski@bellsouth.net	Date: 9/18/2001
Subject: Flyer/Shrink Wrapping
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14781	From: Mark Preman	Date: 9/18/2001
Subject: AM, SHS, Crown, Downs Stuff For Sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14782	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 9/18/2001
Subject: Re: sound and repair
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14783	From: Don Thompson	Date: 9/18/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer/Shrink Wrapping
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14784	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/18/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer/Shrink Wrapping
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14785	From: af2rail@aol.com	Date: 9/18/2001
Subject: Re: Shrink Wrap
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14786	From: Rick Evans	Date: 9/18/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer/Shrink Wrapping
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14787	From: Glenn Sarlitto	Date: 9/18/2001
Subject: Flyer Shrink Wrap PHOTO
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14788	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/18/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer Shrink Wrap PHOTO
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14789	From: David	Date: 9/18/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer Shrink Wrap PHOTO
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14790	From: David Garber	Date: 9/18/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer Shrink Wrap PHOTO
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14791	From: Scott Holm	Date: 9/18/2001
Subject: The URLs for the shrink wrap auctions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14792	From: Rick Evans	Date: 9/18/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer Shrink Wrap PHOTO
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14793	From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com	Date: 9/19/2001
Subject: Shrink Wrap mystery - continued
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14794	From: amerflyr@aol.com	Date: 9/19/2001
Subject: Flyer Shrink Wrapping
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14795	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/19/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer Shrink Wrapping
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14796	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 9/19/2001
Subject: Shrink wrap
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14797	From: ljaneski@bellsouth.net	Date: 9/19/2001
Subject: shrink
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14798	From: Don Thompson	Date: 9/19/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer Shrink Wrapping
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14799	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 9/20/2001
Subject: NASG Library
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14800	From: Bob	Date: 9/20/2001
Subject: Lionel A.F. Sawmill ........
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14801	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 9/20/2001
Subject: FALL GET TOGETHER
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14802	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 9/20/2001
Subject: AF Sawmill
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14803	From: Timboy@att.net	Date: 9/20/2001
Subject: Flyer curved track radius
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14804	From: Howard Sheffield	Date: 9/20/2001
Subject: N- Way
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14805	From: russellmcc@aol.com	Date: 9/20/2001
Subject: Straightening AF Window Material
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14806	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 9/20/2001
Subject: Straightening AF Window Material
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14807	From: Rick Evans	Date: 9/21/2001
Subject: Re: Straightening AF Window Material
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14808	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 9/21/2001
Subject: Steve Blackburn's Vol 2 Video
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14809	From: mark.p.baker@bt.com	Date: 9/21/2001
Subject: Re: God bless their souls.....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14810	From: riechert@pop.phnx.qwest.net	Date: 9/21/2001
Subject: Re: Lionel AF sawmill
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14811	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 9/21/2001
Subject: Lionel AF Sawmill
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14812	From: mlmarmer	Date: 9/21/2001
Subject: Engine is running again!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14813	From: mlmarmer	Date: 9/21/2001
Subject: Re: Engine is running again!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14814	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 9/21/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer curved track radius
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14815	From: Neil Trump	Date: 9/21/2001
Subject: Re: Terrorist Attacks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14816	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 9/21/2001
Subject: AD FOR A FRIEND
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14817	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 9/21/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14818	From: lancemccold@chartertn.net	Date: 9/21/2001
Subject: AF #600 Crossing Gate question
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14819	From: gino restivo	Date: 9/21/2001
Subject: Re: AF #600 Crossing Gate question
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14820	From: Charlie&Edith	Date: 9/21/2001
Subject: 600 series window material
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14821	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 9/22/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer curved track radius
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14822	From: Richard Dunlap	Date: 9/22/2001
Subject: Noisy Handcars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14823	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 9/22/2001
Subject: David Dewey, fact or fiction?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14824	From: Rick Evans	Date: 9/22/2001
Subject: David Dewey, fact or fiction?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14825	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 9/22/2001
Subject: Neil Trumps message
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14826	From: John Denholm	Date: 9/23/2001
Subject: Fire at Train Show!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14827	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 9/23/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1152
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14828	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 9/23/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14829	From: Robert E. Yablonski	Date: 9/23/2001
Subject: Flyer Sawmill
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14830	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 9/23/2001
Subject: AF Sawmill
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14831	From: clay@davestnt.com	Date: 9/23/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer Sawmill
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14832	From: David	Date: 9/23/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer Sawmill
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14833	From: J_Gasal@Compuserve.com	Date: 9/23/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer Sawmill
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14834	From: Don Thompson	Date: 9/23/2001
Subject: Re: 20th annual Fall Get Together
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14835	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 9/23/2001
Subject: "Real A.C. Gilbert AF was never junk."
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14836	From: Rick Evans	Date: 9/23/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer Sawmill
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14837	From: Bill Lane	Date: 9/23/2001
Subject: Jones & Laughlin decals
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14838	From: The Reis's	Date: 9/23/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer Sawmill
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14839	From: The Reis's	Date: 9/23/2001
Subject: American models GG1 on EBAY
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14840	From: Robert W. Jackson	Date: 9/23/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: 20th annual Fall Get Together
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14841	From: David	Date: 9/24/2001
Subject: Re: "Real A.C. Gilbert AF was never junk."
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14842	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 9/24/2001
Subject: Lionel AF Sawmill
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14843	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 9/24/2001
Subject: Re: Lionel AF Sawmill
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14844	From: David	Date: 9/24/2001
Subject: Re: Lionel AF Sawmill
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14845	From: Bob	Date: 9/24/2001
Subject: What is.....?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14846	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 9/24/2001
Subject: Re: Lionel AF Sawmill
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14847	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 9/24/2001
Subject: Re: What is.....?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14848	From: Bill Lane	Date: 9/24/2001
Subject: lettering remover
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14849	From: David	Date: 9/24/2001
Subject: Re: Lionel AF Sawmill
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14850	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 9/24/2001
Subject: Flyer F Units (was Lionel Sawmill)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14851	From: roy inman	Date: 9/24/2001
Subject: FW: [S-Trains] Re: "Real A.C. Gilbert AF was never junk."
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14852	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 9/25/2001
Subject: Respect One Another
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14853	From: joeawood@aol.com	Date: 9/25/2001
Subject: Sawmill boards
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14854	From: eddie rickenbacker	Date: 9/25/2001
Subject: Re: "Real A.C. Gilbert AF was never junk."
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14855	From: Keith B. Thompson - Sun	Date: 9/25/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] lettering remover
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14856	From: sigma@ecn.ab.ca	Date: 9/25/2001
Subject: PA
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14857	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 9/25/2001
Subject: CNW REFER
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14858	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 9/25/2001
Subject: Re: FW: [S-Trains] Re: "Real A.C. Gilbert AF was never junk."
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14859	From: Jay E. Mellon	Date: 9/25/2001
Subject: Response to S Gaugian Letter
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14860	From: Robert Wight	Date: 9/25/2001
Subject: My Fly-onel sawmill
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14861	From: Don Thompson	Date: 9/25/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Need SHS F3 unit
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14862	From: Milton	Date: 9/25/2001
Subject: Special Meeting Next Month At OKC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14863	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 9/25/2001
Subject: Gats
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14864	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 9/25/2001
Subject: Re: Response to S Gaugian Letter
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14865	From: Bill Clark	Date: 9/26/2001
Subject: Photos of turbine pilot from Jim Kindraka
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14866	From: colin_olsen@hotmail.com	Date: 9/26/2001
Subject: AF/Lionel Sawmill
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14867	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 9/26/2001
Subject: New Flex Track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14868	From: Robert E. Yablonski	Date: 9/26/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1154
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14869	From: Don Thompson	Date: 9/26/2001
Subject: Re: New Flex Track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14870	From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com	Date: 9/26/2001
Subject: Glue: Metal to Plastic?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14871	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 9/26/2001
Subject: 1/64th SCALE CARS & TRUCK/BLATANT AD
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14872	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 9/26/2001
Subject: Re: New Flex Track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14873	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 9/26/2001
Subject: Re: AF/Lionel Sawmill
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14874	From: Rick Evans	Date: 9/26/2001
Subject: Down at the ol' sawmill....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14875	From: Robichaud, Thomas Jr (Thomas)	Date: 9/27/2001
Subject: Re: Down at the ol' sawmill....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14876	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 9/27/2001
Subject: glue, sawmill, flex/trolley
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14877	From: gino restivo	Date: 9/27/2001
Subject: Re: diner chimney
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14878	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 9/27/2001
Subject: Junk
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14879	From: Tom Young	Date: 9/27/2001
Subject: Sawmill Boards
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14880	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 9/27/2001
Subject: Branford Chimney
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14881	From: Rick Evans	Date: 9/27/2001
Subject: Re: Junk
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14882	From: riechert@pop.phnx.qwest.net	Date: 9/27/2001
Subject: Re: AF/Lionel Sawmill
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14883	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/27/2001
Subject: David Dewey--Facts!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14884	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 9/27/2001
Subject: Sawmill Tune-up summary
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14885	From: reefman@voicenet.com	Date: 9/27/2001
Subject: Train stores in Charlotte
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14886	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 9/27/2001
Subject: Re: AF/Lionel Sawmill
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14887	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 9/27/2001
Subject: Re: Down at the ol' sawmill....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14888	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 9/27/2001
Subject: Worlds Smallest S Layout
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14889	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 9/27/2001
Subject: Commerical Notice
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14890	From: Robert Werre	Date: 9/27/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Commerical Notice
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14891	From: John Foley	Date: 9/27/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Commerical Notice
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14892	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 9/27/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Commerical Notice
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14893	From: John Foley	Date: 9/27/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Commerical Notice
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14894	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 9/27/2001
Subject: to Steve Footer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14895	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 9/27/2001
Subject: S-Gauge Videos, Vol.'s 1 and II
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14896	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 9/28/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Commerical Notice
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14897	From: dlehnhoff@hotmail.com	Date: 9/28/2001
Subject: Worlds Smallest S Layout
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14898	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 9/28/2001
Subject: PIKEMASTER AD
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14899	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 9/28/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14900	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 9/28/2001
Subject: NASG Steamtown Convention
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14901	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 9/28/2001
Subject: ADDITION TO 1/64 VEHECILES
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14902	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 9/28/2001
Subject: ADDITION TO 1/64 VEHECILES
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14903	From: TED R LARSON	Date: 9/29/2001
Subject: FREE mo
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14904	From: Ross	Date: 9/29/2001
Subject: MTH Gabe
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14905	From: Robert E. Yablonski	Date: 9/29/2001
Subject: Sawmill
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14906	From: TED R LARSON	Date: 9/29/2001
Subject: Here are Steamtown photos shared to you via clarkcolor.com.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14907	From: TED R LARSON	Date: 9/29/2001
Subject: Modern Tanker
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14908	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 9/29/2001
Subject: Re: Modern Tanker
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14909	From: Arden Goehring	Date: 9/29/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Modern Tanker
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14910	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 9/29/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Modern Tanker
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14911	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 9/29/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Modern Tanker
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14912	From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT	Date: 9/30/2001
Subject: Paint colors
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14913	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 9/30/2001
Subject: S-Video, Volumes 1 and 2, and Can Motor updates
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14914	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 9/30/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14915	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 9/30/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14916	From: Jollivier4@cs.com	Date: 9/30/2001
Subject: the trolleys are back
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14917	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 9/30/2001
Subject: Re: Free-Mo
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14918	From: Tom Rolfsmeyer	Date: 9/30/2001
Subject: [Fwd: Sunday Chat]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14919	From: af2rail@aol.com	Date: 9/30/2001
Subject: 55 Chevy Pick-ups
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14920	From: Ted Larson	Date: 10/1/2001
Subject: Highway Trucks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14921	From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi	Date: 10/1/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] S-Video, Volumes 1 and 2, and Can Motor updates
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14922	From: Mark Preman	Date: 10/1/2001
Subject: American Flyer Trains For Sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14923	From: rwjw3@aol.com	Date: 10/1/2001
Subject: Re: 312 vers. 312 AC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14924	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 10/1/2001
Subject: Re: 312 vers. 312 AC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14925	From: lensman@erols.com	Date: 10/1/2001
Subject: AF #322 Loco Reversing Problem
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14926	From: Charlie&Edith	Date: 10/1/2001
Subject: AF Sawmill
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14927	From: Carl Tuveson	Date: 10/1/2001
Subject: Re: AF #322 Loco Reversing Problem
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14928	From: Tom Stolte	Date: 10/1/2001
Subject: New decals from Oddballs Decals - N, HO, S & O scale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14929	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 10/1/2001
Subject: 322 loco reversing problem
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14930	From: John Foley	Date: 10/2/2001
Subject: Fwd: HELLO AGAIN
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14931	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 10/2/2001
Subject: Montvale NJ Train Show.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14932	From: David A. Highfield	Date: 10/2/2001
Subject: The big question
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14933	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/2/2001
Subject: 322 loco reversing problem & stuff.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14934	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 10/2/2001
Subject: The Russ Mobley Library
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14935	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 10/2/2001
Subject: BILL TREFTS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14936	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 10/2/2001
Subject: Re: 322 loco reversing problem & stuff.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14937	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 10/2/2001
Subject: O. Winston Link / 2002 Price Guide
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14938	From: joeawood@aol.com	Date: 10/2/2001
Subject: RAILFEST ALTOONA PA.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14939	From: joeawood@aol.com	Date: 10/2/2001
Subject: Alto Model Train Museum Association Fall meet
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14940	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 10/2/2001
Subject: BILL TREFTS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14941	From: michael prell	Date: 10/3/2001
Subject: Re: The big question
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14942	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 10/3/2001
Subject: "L" SAWMILL REVISITED
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14943	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 10/3/2001
Subject: BILL TREFTS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14944	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 10/3/2001
Subject: BILL TREFS ADDRESS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14945	From: Milton	Date: 10/3/2001
Subject: Looking for OKLA Members...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14946	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 10/3/2001
Subject: Big International News, Off-Topic
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14947	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 10/3/2001
Subject: Re: Taliban
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14948	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 10/3/2001
Subject: new e-mail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14949	From: neil.trump@bt.com	Date: 10/4/2001
Subject: Re: Reply to CZ's Off-Topic posting
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14950	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 10/4/2001
Subject: Please Stay on Topic
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14951	From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT	Date: 10/4/2001
Subject: WAY OFF TOPIC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14952	From: Don Thompson	Date: 10/4/2001
Subject: Re: WAY OFF TOPIC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14953	From: Michael Christensen	Date: 10/4/2001
Subject: Circus Train freight cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14954	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 10/4/2001
Subject: Re: Circus Train freight cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14955	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 10/5/2001
Subject: Re: Circus Train freight cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14956	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 10/5/2001
Subject: Circus Car Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14957	From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT	Date: 10/5/2001
Subject: Way off topic
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14958	From: Gerhard Stegemann	Date: 10/5/2001
Subject: K325 early, riveted knuckle coupler
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14959	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 10/5/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14960	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 10/5/2001
Subject: New file uploaded to S-Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14961	From: lapasafe@worldnet.att.net	Date: 10/5/2001
Subject: American S Gauge, Code 172, Nickle Silver Track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14962	From: Don Thompson	Date: 10/6/2001
Subject: Re: More SHS Blantant Commercialism
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14963	From: Robert E. Yablonski	Date: 10/6/2001
Subject: 12B Transformer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14964	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 10/6/2001
Subject: Picture of First JTR Circus Car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14965	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 10/6/2001
Subject: Re: Picture of First JTR Circus Car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14966	From: lapasafe@worldnet.att.net	Date: 10/6/2001
Subject: American S Gauge - correction
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14967	From: lapasafe@worldnet.att.net	Date: 10/6/2001
Subject: American S Gauge Correction
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14968	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 10/6/2001
Subject: Re: Picture of First JTR Circus Car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14969	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 10/7/2001
Subject: Circus Car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14970	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 10/7/2001
Subject: Mike Kolosseus
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14971	From: Wayne and Alice Beachy	Date: 10/7/2001
Subject: Benefit Show Update
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14972	From: sigma@ecn.ab.ca	Date: 10/7/2001
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14973	From: Michael Christensen	Date: 10/7/2001
Subject: Re: Picture of First JTR Circus Car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14974	From: Michael Christensen	Date: 10/7/2001
Subject: Re: Picture of First JTR Circus Car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14975	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 10/7/2001
Subject: Reefer Madness (Was: Re: More SHS Blantant Commercialism)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14976	From: John Foley	Date: 10/7/2001
Subject: Train Time
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14977	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 10/7/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14978	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 10/7/2001
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14979	From: Scott Holm	Date: 10/7/2001
Subject: Re: Picture of First JTR Circus Car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14980	From: lensman@erols.com	Date: 10/7/2001
Subject: AF 371 Diesel Correct Wiring
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14981	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 10/7/2001
Subject: 370 & 371
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14982	From: Hannon	Date: 10/8/2001
Subject: Anyone else have this problem?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14983	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 10/8/2001
Subject: Black Label Beer reefer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14984	From: Eugene Steffan	Date: 10/8/2001
Subject: Re: Anyone else have this problem?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14985	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/8/2001
Subject: Sunday Chat problem
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14986	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 10/8/2001
Subject: Re: Anyone else have this problem?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14987	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 10/8/2001
Subject: Michael T. Kolosseus
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14988	From: Bob	Date: 10/8/2001
Subject: 650-950 Series Passenger Cars..........
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14989	From: Don Thompson	Date: 10/8/2001
Subject: Re: 36" Meat reefers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14990	From: Doug Peck	Date: 10/8/2001
Subject: Re: Circus flatcars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14991	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 10/8/2001
Subject: Repro 643's
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14992	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 10/9/2001
Subject: Repro Vans
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14993	From: Hannon	Date: 10/9/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1168
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14994	From: Milton Obuch	Date: 10/9/2001
Subject: Re: You Have Been Invited...(Resend)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14995	From: Walt Danylak	Date: 10/9/2001
Subject: Re: 650-950 Series Passenger Cars..........
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14996	From: Gary Chidester	Date: 10/9/2001
Subject: Link to Knuckle
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14997	From: IronHorse	Date: 10/9/2001
Subject: Re: Link to Knuckle
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14998	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/9/2001
Subject: Re: 650-950 Series Passenger Cars..........
Group: S-Trains	Message: 14999	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 10/10/2001
Subject: World's Greatest Hobby Campaign
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15000	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 10/10/2001
Subject: Re: World's Greatest Hobby Campaign
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15001	From: Ted Larson	Date: 10/10/2001
Subject: archives
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15002	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 10/10/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1169
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15003	From: sigma@ecn.ab.ca	Date: 10/10/2001
Subject: e-mail address
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15004	From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi	Date: 10/10/2001
Subject: NASG
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15005	From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi	Date: 10/10/2001
Subject: NMRA
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15006	From: Keith B. Thompson - Sun	Date: 10/10/2001
Subject: Rollie Holders (was: Re: [S-Scale] NASG)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15007	From: Ted Larson	Date: 10/10/2001
Subject: Sprues and runners
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15008	From: Michael Greene	Date: 10/10/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] NMRA
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15009	From: Michael Greene	Date: 10/10/2001
Subject: Re: NASG
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15010	From: Lawrence Jackman	Date: 10/10/2001
Subject: Re: [FC] Sprues and runners
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15011	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 10/10/2001
Subject: Johnny Lightning "Lightning Brigade" WC-54
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15012	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 10/11/2001
Subject: 342- 343 Tender
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15013	From: Lee Johnson	Date: 10/11/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: [S-Trains] NASG
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15014	From: Dennis Conway	Date: 10/11/2001
Subject: Rolling gages ...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15015	From: Jay	Date: 10/11/2001
Subject: Newbie
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15016	From: Carl Tuveson	Date: 10/11/2001
Subject: Re: Newbie
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15017	From: Keith B. Thompson - Sun	Date: 10/11/2001
Subject: Rollee Holders (was: Re: Rollie Holders (was: Re: [S-Scale] NASG))
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15018	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 10/11/2001
Subject: Re: Newbie
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15019	From: Jay	Date: 10/11/2001
Subject: Re: Newbie
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15020	From: Ted Larson	Date: 10/11/2001
Subject: archives
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15021	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 10/11/2001
Subject: Air chime whistle generator
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15022	From: jfrodgers@rpb-law.com	Date: 10/11/2001
Subject: Re: Answering Questions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15023	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 10/11/2001
Subject: Re: Newbie
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15024	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 10/11/2001
Subject: Re: Newbie
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15025	From: Lee Johnson	Date: 10/11/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Rolling gages ...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15026	From: Dennis Conway	Date: 10/11/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Rolling gages ... (2)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15027	From: David	Date: 10/11/2001
Subject: Re: Air chime whistle generator
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15028	From: Hannon	Date: 10/11/2001
Subject: Re: S-Gauge Reference Manual Updates Available
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15029	From: M.McConnell	Date: 10/11/2001
Subject: SJSG sponsered Train Show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15030	From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi	Date: 10/12/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Rolling gages ... (2)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15031	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 10/12/2001
Subject: Tom Barker's Book
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15032	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 10/12/2001
Subject: Newbie
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15033	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 10/12/2001
Subject: Re: Newbie - Book suggestions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15034	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 10/12/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15035	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 10/12/2001
Subject: 342 343 TENDERS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15036	From: gunrjoe@aol.com	Date: 10/12/2001
Subject: Newbie
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15037	From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT	Date: 10/12/2001
Subject: ho and g hopper
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15038	From: Doug Peck	Date: 10/12/2001
Subject: Re: Barker repair manual
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15039	From: James Tanley	Date: 10/13/2001
Subject: Yorkers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15040	From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT	Date: 10/13/2001
Subject: Re: Yorkers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15041	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 10/13/2001
Subject: CORP #'S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15042	From: lensman@erols.com	Date: 10/13/2001
Subject: AF repair recommendations
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15043	From: Milton Obuch	Date: 10/13/2001
Subject: Out & Around IN OKC Tonight >>
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15044	From: Don Thompson	Date: 10/14/2001
Subject: Re: Decals
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15045	From: Dan Brindell	Date: 10/14/2001
Subject: Power to the track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15046	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/14/2001
Subject: Re: Power to the track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15047	From: carl@wsbt.com	Date: 10/14/2001
Subject: Speeding up the MTH Coal loader.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15048	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 10/14/2001
Subject: Just an Okie . . .
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15049	From: Bob	Date: 10/14/2001
Subject: Sliding Shoe Pick-up...........
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15050	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 10/14/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15051	From: Wayne Broadhead	Date: 10/14/2001
Subject: Re: Speeding up the MTH Coal loader.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15052	From: Milton Obuch	Date: 10/14/2001
Subject: Looking For OKLA & OKC Members
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15053	From: Walt Danylak	Date: 10/15/2001
Subject: Fwd: Brass For Sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15054	From: Hannon	Date: 10/15/2001
Subject: First timer on Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15055	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 10/15/2001
Subject: S-Trains CLUB chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15056	From: Ted Larson	Date: 10/15/2001
Subject: Hardware Photos
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15057	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 10/15/2001
Subject: S-Video project countdown
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15058	From: milayman@aol.com	Date: 10/15/2001
Subject: Track wiring
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15059	From: G-WOLFGANG5@JUNO.COM	Date: 10/15/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1174
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15060	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 10/15/2001
Subject: PSL Train Show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15061	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 10/15/2001
Subject: More Flex Track Adventures
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15062	From: Alex	Date: 10/16/2001
Subject: Re: More Flex Track Adventures
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15063	From: Euell Johnson	Date: 10/16/2001
Subject: Layout
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15064	From: Ted Larson	Date: 10/16/2001
Subject: ballast
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15065	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 10/16/2001
Subject: Re: Layout
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15066	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 10/16/2001
Subject: NORTH PENN S NEWSLETTER
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15067	From: Dan Brindell	Date: 10/16/2001
Subject: Re: Layout
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15068	From: carl@wsbt.com	Date: 10/16/2001
Subject: Carl's S Gauge Empire web site
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15069	From: Wayne Broadhead	Date: 10/16/2001
Subject: Re: Carl's S Gauge Empire web site
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15070	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 10/17/2001
Subject: Re: Carl's S Gauge Empire web site
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15071	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 10/17/2001
Subject: Re: Carl's S Gauge Empire web site
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15072	From: davedesian@clarkus.com	Date: 10/17/2001
Subject: Layout Track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15073	From: louis glumac	Date: 10/17/2001
Subject: for sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15074	From: Ted Larson	Date: 10/17/2001
Subject: phun foto
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15075	From: Rick Evans	Date: 10/17/2001
Subject: Good to be back,....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15076	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 10/17/2001
Subject: Video Projects
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15077	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 10/17/2001
Subject: Video projects
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15078	From: Hansen, Bruce x4383	Date: 10/17/2001
Subject: Correct loads for 715/915 car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15079	From: John Foley	Date: 10/17/2001
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15080	From: aztecfan@yahoo.com	Date: 10/17/2001
Subject: Wall Mart S Gauge
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15081	From: gunrjoe@aol.com	Date: 10/17/2001
Subject: Electrical Pickups on trucks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15082	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 10/17/2001
Subject: electrical pickups on trucks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15083	From: Cheri221@aol.com	Date: 10/17/2001
Subject: Pacific NW Train Show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15084	From: Milton Obuch	Date: 10/17/2001
Subject: November Is Model Railroad Month...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15085	From: Milton Obuch	Date: 10/17/2001
Subject: November Is Model Railroad Month...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15086	From: Ted Larson	Date: 10/18/2001
Subject: Fwd: Re: [FC] Interchange Dates
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15087	From: Milton Obuch	Date: 10/18/2001
Subject: Building An New S-Gauge Layout--->
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15088	From: John Foley	Date: 10/18/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Building An New S-Gauge Layout--->
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15089	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 10/19/2001
Subject: Edwards Motor Car - on the web
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15090	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 10/19/2001
Subject: Sound, DCC, and trolleys
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15091	From: David Sapadin	Date: 10/19/2001
Subject: Curve Radius of AF Track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15092	From: lancemccold@chartertn.net	Date: 10/19/2001
Subject: Wobbly wheels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15093	From: ron inscho	Date: 10/19/2001
Subject: Re: Curve Radius of AF Track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15094	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 10/19/2001
Subject: Re: Curve Radius of AF Track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15095	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 10/19/2001
Subject: 21910-1 horn
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15096	From: IronHorse	Date: 10/20/2001
Subject: Re: Wobbly wheels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15097	From: IronHorse	Date: 10/20/2001
Subject: Re: Curve Radius of AF Track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15098	From: Jay	Date: 10/20/2001
Subject: Re: Curve Radius of AF Track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15099	From: Scott Holm	Date: 10/20/2001
Subject: Re: Curve Radius of AF Track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15100	From: gino restivo	Date: 10/20/2001
Subject: Re: 21910-1 horn
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15101	From: gino restivo	Date: 10/20/2001
Subject: Re: Wobbly diesel wheels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15102	From: David	Date: 10/20/2001
Subject: Part Needed....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15103	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 10/20/2001
Subject: 21901-1
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15105	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 10/20/2001
Subject: Re: Curve Radius of AF Track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15106	From: Tom Rolfsmeyer	Date: 10/21/2001
Subject: Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15107	From: Dan Brindell	Date: 10/21/2001
Subject: Re: 21901-1
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15108	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 10/21/2001
Subject: Re: 21910-1 horn
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15109	From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT	Date: 10/21/2001
Subject: Re: Wall Mart S Gauge
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15110	From: Don Thompson	Date: 10/21/2001
Subject: Re: Latest Container & other news
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15111	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 10/21/2001
Subject: Sunday chats
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15112	From: Rick Evans	Date: 10/21/2001
Subject: Ceramic buildings @ Wal-Mart...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15113	From: Wayne Zebron	Date: 10/21/2001
Subject: 293 pacific
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15114	From: jackress@yahoo.com	Date: 10/21/2001
Subject: Ideas to repair wire on 46' all plastic 630
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15115	From: Rick Evans	Date: 10/21/2001
Subject: Re: Ideas to repair wire on 46' all plastic 630
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15116	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 10/22/2001
Subject: Sunday Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15117	From: Steve Roche	Date: 10/22/2001
Subject: York and new layout
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15118	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 10/22/2001
Subject: 21910-1
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15119	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 10/22/2001
Subject: Re: wire on 46' all plastic 630
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15120	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 10/22/2001
Subject: Yahoo-ooooh-oooooo
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15121	From: Alex	Date: 10/22/2001
Subject: Re: 21910-1
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15122	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/22/2001
Subject: Re: Ideas to repair wire on 46' all plastic 630
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15123	From: Hannon	Date: 10/22/2001
Subject: York Meet & #26672 Download Problems
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15124	From: Ted Larson	Date: 10/22/2001
Subject: Oh, so that's why
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15125	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 10/22/2001
Subject: Re: wire on 46' all plastic 630
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15126	From: Rick Evans	Date: 10/22/2001
Subject: Re: wire on 46' all plastic 630
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15127	From: Ted Larson	Date: 10/22/2001
Subject: Dealers?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15128	From: Rick Evans	Date: 10/22/2001
Subject: Re: Dealers?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15129	From: Scott Holm	Date: 10/22/2001
Subject: Re: wire on 46' all plastic 630
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15130	From: Rick Evans	Date: 10/22/2001
Subject: Re: wire on 46' all plastic 630
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15131	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 10/22/2001
Subject: Re: Ideas to repair wire on 46' all plastic 630
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15132	From: Bob	Date: 10/22/2001
Subject: York Findings..........
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15133	From: Tim Brown	Date: 10/22/2001
Subject: Food for thought
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15134	From: Scott Brown	Date: 10/22/2001
Subject: Sunday night Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15135	From: Don Thompson	Date: 10/22/2001
Subject: Re: Which three car reefer sets?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15136	From: Dan Brindell	Date: 10/22/2001
Subject: Re: Food for thought
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15137	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 10/22/2001
Subject: York musings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15138	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 10/23/2001
Subject: Re: wire on 46' all plastic 630
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15139	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/23/2001
Subject: Re: wire on 46' all plastic 630
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15140	From: Hannon	Date: 10/23/2001
Subject: Chat Room Problems
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15141	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/23/2001
Subject: Re: Chat Room Problems--some suggestions/hints & invite!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15142	From: Bob	Date: 10/23/2001
Subject: Control Button......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15143	From: David A. Highfield	Date: 10/23/2001
Subject: Insurance coverage
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15144	From: jfrodgers@rpb-law.com	Date: 10/23/2001
Subject: Re: Food for thought
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15145	From: jfrodgers@rpb-law.com	Date: 10/23/2001
Subject: Re: York and new layout
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15146	From: Don Thompson	Date: 10/23/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: Which three car reefer sets?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15147	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/23/2001
Subject: Re: York and new layout
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15148	From: Rick Evans	Date: 10/23/2001
Subject: Too much track...???
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15149	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/23/2001
Subject: Re: Too much track...???
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15150	From: jfrodgers@rpb-law.com	Date: 10/23/2001
Subject: Re: York and new layout
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15151	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 10/23/2001
Subject: Roar units with an on/off switch
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15152	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 10/23/2001
Subject: Re: Food for thought
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15153	From: garymccullah@usa.net	Date: 10/23/2001
Subject: Food for Thought
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15154	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 10/23/2001
Subject: Re: York musings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15155	From: SMITTY@tir.com	Date: 10/23/2001
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15156	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 10/23/2001
Subject: Re: Roar units with an on/off switch
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15157	From: Tom Stolte	Date: 10/23/2001
Subject: New decals from Oddballs Decals - N, HO, S & O scales
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15158	From: Kimball, Bob (CH)	Date: 10/23/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1182
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15159	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/23/2001
Subject: Re: Food for thought
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15160	From: Walt Danylak	Date: 10/24/2001
Subject: Re: Roar units with an on/off switch
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15161	From: David	Date: 10/24/2001
Subject: Re: Roar units with an on/off switch
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15162	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 10/24/2001
Subject: Re: Roar units with an on/off switch
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15163	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 10/24/2001
Subject: Re: Food for thought
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15164	From: louis glumac	Date: 10/24/2001
Subject: FOR SALE,
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15165	From: Scott Brown	Date: 10/24/2001
Subject: Re: Food for thought
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15166	From: John Bandstra	Date: 10/24/2001
Subject: Re: [showcaseline] Re: [S-Scale] Re: Which three car reefer sets?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15167	From: The Reis's	Date: 10/24/2001
Subject: Re: (unknown)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15168	From: TED R LARSON	Date: 10/25/2001
Subject: auto rack
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15169	From: TED R LARSON	Date: 10/25/2001
Subject: clip-art
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15170	From: Rick Evans	Date: 10/25/2001
Subject: Where to buy boxes...??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15171	From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com	Date: 10/25/2001
Subject: Re: Where to buy boxes...??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15172	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 10/25/2001
Subject: Re: Where to buy boxes...??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15173	From: Bill Lane	Date: 10/25/2001
Subject: is there an artist in the house?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15174	From: Dan Brindell	Date: 10/25/2001
Subject: Re: Where to buy boxes...??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15175	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 10/26/2001
Subject: CLASSIC TOY TRAINS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15176	From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com	Date: 10/26/2001
Subject: New AF Repair Manual?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15177	From: Scott Brown	Date: 10/26/2001
Subject: Duralube car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15178	From: joeawood@aol.com	Date: 10/26/2001
Subject: Train Storage
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15179	From: David	Date: 10/26/2001
Subject: E-Bay Auction of the Week
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15180	From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT	Date: 10/26/2001
Subject: Re: E-Bay Auction of the Week
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15181	From: Scott Holm	Date: 10/26/2001
Subject: New yahoo erector group
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15182	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 10/26/2001
Subject: Re: CLASSIC TOY TRAINS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15183	From: Donald P. Abrams	Date: 10/26/2001
Subject: Wobbly Wheels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15184	From: Walt Danylak	Date: 10/27/2001
Subject: Re: York musings - Lionel Steam Engine
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15185	From: Don Thompson	Date: 10/27/2001
Subject: Re: York musings - Lionel Steam Engine
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15186	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 10/27/2001
Subject: Re: York musings - Lionel Steam Engine
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15187	From: Tim Brown	Date: 10/27/2001
Subject: Re: York musings - Lionel Steam Engine
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15188	From: eddie rickenbacker	Date: 10/27/2001
Subject: E-Bay #1655263353
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15189	From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT	Date: 10/27/2001
Subject: Re: E-Bay #1655263353
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15190	From: erierailroad@aol.com	Date: 10/27/2001
Subject: Re: York musings - Lionel Steam Engine-Price Comment
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15191	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 10/27/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1181
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15192	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 10/27/2001
Subject: Re: York musings - Lionel Steam Engine
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15193	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 10/27/2001
Subject: 720 vs 720A
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15194	From: Joe	Date: 10/27/2001
Subject: Trying to resolve a problem
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15195	From: Rick Evans	Date: 10/27/2001
Subject: Re: Trying to resolve a problem
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15196	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 10/28/2001
Subject: Re: York musings - Lionel Steam Engine
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15197	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 10/28/2001
Subject: FAQ's Update
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15198	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 10/28/2001
Subject: Re: E-Bay #1655263353
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15199	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 10/28/2001
Subject: Recent E-Bay junk
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15200	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 10/28/2001
Subject: Re: log loaders
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15201	From: J_Gasal@Compuserve.com	Date: 10/28/2001
Subject: Re: Trying to resolve a problem
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15202	From: plotnick	Date: 10/28/2001
Subject: Balky handcar
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15203	From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi	Date: 10/28/2001
Subject: Portland Locomotive Works
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15204	From: John Foley	Date: 10/28/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Portland Locomotive Works
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15205	From: Doug Peck	Date: 10/28/2001
Subject: Re: "coal hopper" on Ebay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15206	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/28/2001
Subject: Re: "coal hopper" on Ebay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15207	From: Doug Peck	Date: 10/28/2001
Subject: Re: "coal hopper" on Ebay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15208	From: jackress@yahoo.com	Date: 10/28/2001
Subject: Inside my all Red Plastic Reading 630
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15210	From: lensman@erols.com	Date: 10/28/2001
Subject: AF 322 Heavy Sparking Problem.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15211	From: Rick Evans	Date: 10/28/2001
Subject: Re: AF 322 Heavy Sparking Problem.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15212	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 10/28/2001
Subject: 322 heavy sparking problem
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15213	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 10/28/2001
Subject: balky handcar
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15214	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/28/2001
Subject: Re: Inside my all Red Plastic Reading 630
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15215	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 10/29/2001
Subject: Re: Inside my all Red Plastic Reading 630
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15216	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 10/29/2001
Subject: Re: AF 322 Heavy Sparking Problem
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15217	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/29/2001
Subject: Re: AF 322 Heavy Sparking Problem
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15218	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 10/29/2001
Subject: Re: AF 322 Heavy Sparking Problem
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15219	From: Hannon	Date: 10/29/2001
Subject: Balky Handcar Armature
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15220	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/29/2001
Subject: Re: AF 322 Heavy Sparking Problem
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15221	From: Rick Evans	Date: 10/29/2001
Subject: Re: AF 322 Heavy Sparking Problem.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15222	From: Hannon	Date: 10/29/2001
Subject: The Hunt for Living S-Gaugers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15223	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 10/29/2001
Subject: cranky handcar
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15224	From: IronHorse	Date: 10/29/2001
Subject: Re: The Hunt for Living S-Gaugers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15225	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 10/29/2001
Subject: Re: The Hunt for Living S-Gaugers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15226	From: IronHorse	Date: 10/29/2001
Subject: Re: The Hunt for Living S-Gaugers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15227	From: IronHorse	Date: 10/29/2001
Subject: Museum closed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15228	From: Tim Brown	Date: 10/29/2001
Subject: Re: cranky handcar
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15229	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 10/29/2001
Subject: Re: AF 322 Heavy Sparking Problem.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15230	From: louis glumac	Date: 10/29/2001
Subject: FOR SALE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15231	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 10/29/2001
Subject: TWO THINGS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15232	From: Neil Trump	Date: 10/29/2001
Subject: part needed for magnetic crane
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15233	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 10/29/2001
Subject: CAL-STEWART
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15234	From: John Foley	Date: 10/29/2001
Subject: Fwd: failure notice
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15235	From: Dan Brindell	Date: 10/29/2001
Subject: Strange Gilbert
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15236	From: Rick Evans	Date: 10/29/2001
Subject: Strange Gilbert....& Christmas train pics....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15237	From: Rick Evans	Date: 10/29/2001
Subject: Re: The Hunt for Living S-Gaugers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15238	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 10/29/2001
Subject: Re: Strange Gilbert
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15239	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/29/2001
Subject: Own an AF Prototype!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15240	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 10/29/2001
Subject: diesel wiring diagram
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15241	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 10/29/2001
Subject: AF prototype
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15242	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/29/2001
Subject: A bit of steam railroad reading
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15243	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 10/30/2001
Subject: Gilbert PulMor Wheels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15244	From: IronHorse	Date: 10/30/2001
Subject: Re: Gilbert PulMor Wheels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15245	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 10/30/2001
Subject: Re: The Hunt for Living S-Gaugers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15246	From: plotnick	Date: 10/30/2001
Subject: Re: balky handcar
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15247	From: David	Date: 10/30/2001
Subject: Re: Gilbert PulMor Wheels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15248	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 10/30/2001
Subject: pulmors on which axle
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15249	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 10/30/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1190
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15250	From: David Garber	Date: 10/30/2001
Subject: Fwd: Re: The Hunt for Living S-Gaugers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15251	From: Novak, William	Date: 10/30/2001
Subject: Pulmors on AM diesels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15252	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 10/30/2001
Subject: pul-mor rims
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15253	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 10/30/2001
Subject: Re: The Hunt for Living S-Gaugers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15254	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 10/30/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1189
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15255	From: erierailroad@aol.com	Date: 10/30/2001
Subject: Re: Pulmors on AM diesels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15256	From: Howard Sheffield	Date: 10/30/2001
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: The Hunt for Living S-Gaugers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15257	From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT	Date: 10/30/2001
Subject: hobby shops
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15258	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 10/30/2001
Subject: Re: Gilbert PulMor Wheels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15259	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 10/31/2001
Subject: Gilbert PulMor Wheels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15260	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 10/31/2001
Subject: Re: Gilbert PulMor Wheels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15261	From: Eugene Steffan	Date: 10/31/2001
Subject: Discussion About PBS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15262	From: jfrodgers@rpb-law.com	Date: 10/31/2001
Subject: 283 Help.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15263	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 10/31/2001
Subject: Re: Discussion About PBS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15264	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 10/31/2001
Subject: Re: Discussion About PBS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15265	From: gino restivo	Date: 10/31/2001
Subject: Re: 283 Help.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15266	From: Paul Husby	Date: 10/31/2001
Subject: Correct wiring of stockyard switch?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15267	From: Tom Stolte	Date: 10/31/2001
Subject: Oddballs Decals 20% off sale.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15268	From: James Tanley	Date: 10/31/2001
Subject: Hot Wheels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15269	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 10/31/2001
Subject: cranky 283
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15270	From: Don Thompson	Date: 10/31/2001
Subject: Re: Discussion About PBS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15271	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 10/31/2001
Subject: PARTS????
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15272	From: gunrjoe@aol.com	Date: 10/31/2001
Subject: Need advice and help to preserve trains!!!!!!!!!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15273	From: Eugene Steffan	Date: 10/31/2001
Subject: Re: Discussion About PBS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15274	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 10/31/2001
Subject: Re: 283 Help.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15275	From: Scott Holm	Date: 10/31/2001
Subject: Re: cranky 283
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15276	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 10/31/2001
Subject: Re: Gilbert PulMor Wheels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15277	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 10/31/2001
Subject: Re: 283 Help
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15278	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/31/2001
Subject: Re: Gilbert PulMor Wheels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15279	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 11/1/2001
Subject: Re: Gilbert PulMor Wheels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15280	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 11/1/2001
Subject: Re: Gilbert PulMor Wheels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15281	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 11/1/2001
Subject: New Products (Shameless Promotion)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15282	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 11/1/2001
Subject: cranky 283
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15283	From: jfrodgers@rpb-law.com	Date: 11/1/2001
Subject: 283 rehab project
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15284	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 11/1/2001
Subject: Re: Need advice and help to preserve trains!!!!!!!!!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15285	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 11/1/2001
Subject: factory original?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15286	From: Mark Preman	Date: 11/1/2001
Subject: American Flyer Trains For Sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15287	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 11/1/2001
Subject: New Pullmores
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15288	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 11/1/2001
Subject: Re: factory original?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15289	From: Dan Brindell	Date: 11/1/2001
Subject: Re: Gilbert PulMor Wheels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15290	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/1/2001
Subject: Re: Gilbert PulMor Wheels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15292	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 11/2/2001
Subject: Re: Gilbert PulMor Wheels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15293	From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi	Date: 11/2/2001
Subject: Humor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15294	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/2/2001
Subject: Re: Humor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15295	From: David	Date: 11/2/2001
Subject: Auction of the Week 11/2
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15296	From: Rick Evans	Date: 11/2/2001
Subject: Re: Hot Wheels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15297	From: Rick Evans	Date: 11/2/2001
Subject: Does CTT know NASG exists...??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15298	From: Scott Holm	Date: 11/2/2001
Subject: 930 on Ebay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15299	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 11/2/2001
Subject: Re: Does CTT know NASG exists...??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15300	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 11/2/2001
Subject: Re: Does CTT know NASG exists...??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15301	From: Rick Evans	Date: 11/2/2001
Subject: Current issue of CTT......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15302	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 11/2/2001
Subject: RW Jackson
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15303	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 11/2/2001
Subject: TTOS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15304	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 11/2/2001
Subject: CTT NASG
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15305	From: riechert@pop.phnx.qwest.net	Date: 11/2/2001
Subject: CTT or ????
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15306	From: Scott Brown	Date: 11/2/2001
Subject: Trains are for kids too.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15307	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 11/2/2001
Subject: Re: Gilbert PulMor Wheels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15308	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 11/2/2001
Subject: Auction of the Week 11/2
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15309	From: carl@wsbt.com	Date: 11/2/2001
Subject: Speaking of traction tires and other New web pages
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15310	From: Charlie&Edith	Date: 11/2/2001
Subject: Transformer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15311	From: Rick Evans	Date: 11/2/2001
Subject: Carl's phone plug connections......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15312	From: Rick Evans	Date: 11/2/2001
Subject: S-Trains members .....669 of us!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15313	From: Rick Evans	Date: 11/3/2001
Subject: CTT talk over @ the toy train list.......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15314	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 11/3/2001
Subject: Re: CTT or ????
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15315	From: Doug Peck	Date: 11/3/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1194
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15316	From: gunrjoe@aol.com	Date: 11/3/2001
Subject: Lesson About Auctions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15317	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/3/2001
Subject: Re: S-Trains members .....669 of us!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15318	From: Jay	Date: 11/3/2001
Subject: Track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15319	From: Bob	Date: 11/3/2001
Subject: M.T.H. Seaboard Coal Loader ???
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15320	From: Dick Kuepper	Date: 11/3/2001
Subject: Interesting photos
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15321	From: Dick Kuepper	Date: 11/3/2001
Subject: Interesting Photos
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15322	From: Jim Hannawald	Date: 11/3/2001
Subject: Clean Wheels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15323	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/3/2001
Subject: Re: Clean Wheels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15324	From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com	Date: 11/3/2001
Subject: Help Fast
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15325	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/3/2001
Subject: Re: Track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15326	From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com	Date: 11/3/2001
Subject: Need links to our website
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15327	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/3/2001
Subject: Re: Clean Wheels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15328	From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com	Date: 11/3/2001
Subject: Check out Miami Valley S Gaugers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15329	From: jackress@yahoo.com	Date: 11/3/2001
Subject: The all plastic red 630 Caboose
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15330	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 11/4/2001
Subject: Re: Track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15331	From: Ogauge749050467@aol.com	Date: 11/4/2001
Subject: interesting ebay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15332	From: dav21248@aol.com	Date: 11/4/2001
Subject: NASG DISPATCH
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15333	From: Don Thompson	Date: 11/4/2001
Subject: Re: NASG DISPATCH arrives
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15334	From: gunrjoe@aol.com	Date: 11/4/2001
Subject: are some s stations really O?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15335	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 11/4/2001
Subject: Re: are some s stations really O?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15336	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/4/2001
Subject: Flyer Chat tonite, I'll be late!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15337	From: Clifford Manning	Date: 11/4/2001
Subject: 583/ 583A Crane
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15338	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 11/4/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1195
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15339	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/4/2001
Subject: Chat tonite
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15340	From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi	Date: 11/5/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1195
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15341	From: Wayne and Alice Beachy	Date: 11/5/2001
Subject: Smoke units
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15342	From: gino restivo	Date: 11/5/2001
Subject: Re: Smoke units
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15343	From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com	Date: 11/5/2001
Subject: Check out Seuthe product line page
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15344	From: pdng@aol.com	Date: 11/5/2001
Subject: American Flyer 3 Rail pickup
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15345	From: Robichaud, Thomas Jr (Thomas)	Date: 11/5/2001
Subject: Re: Smoke units
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15346	From: Bob	Date: 11/5/2001
Subject: Gilbert Repro.......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15347	From: Wayne and Alice Beachy	Date: 11/5/2001
Subject: Thanks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15348	From: Jim Hannawald	Date: 11/5/2001
Subject: clean wheels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15349	From: louis glumac	Date: 11/5/2001
Subject: FOR SALE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15350	From: Dan Brindell	Date: 11/5/2001
Subject: Re: Gilbert Repro.......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15351	From: Dan Brindell	Date: 11/5/2001
Subject: Re: Smoke units
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15352	From: eddie rickenbacker	Date: 11/5/2001
Subject: real rr books
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15353	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 11/6/2001
Subject: More New Parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15354	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 11/6/2001
Subject: Clean those wheels with this repro
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15355	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/6/2001
Subject: Re: Clean those wheels with this repro
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15356	From: Horn, David	Date: 11/6/2001
Subject: Insta Smoke with water
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15357	From: Doug Peck	Date: 11/6/2001
Subject: Re: PLHS website
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15358	From: J_Gasal@Compuserve.com	Date: 11/6/2001
Subject: Re: Smoke units
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15359	From: Rick Evans	Date: 11/7/2001
Subject: Re: Smoke units @ Dept 56...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15360	From: roberte613@aol.com	Date: 11/7/2001
Subject: Aren't train people ever cold?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15361	From: Harry Butler	Date: 11/7/2001
Subject: Re: Aren't train people ever cold?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15362	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 11/7/2001
Subject: Doug's Top 40
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15363	From: Rick Evans	Date: 11/7/2001
Subject: Re: Aren't train people ever cold?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15364	From: araujonyc@yahoo.com	Date: 11/7/2001
Subject: My life after Sept. 11
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15365	From: Tom Stolte	Date: 11/7/2001
Subject: Fw: [Union_Pacific] How to stop him, was (My life after Sept. 11)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15366	From: Tom Stolte	Date: 11/7/2001
Subject: Fw: The Scammer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15367	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 11/7/2001
Subject: Re: Insta Smoke with water
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15368	From: milayman@aol.com	Date: 11/7/2001
Subject: Disappearing train
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15369	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 11/7/2001
Subject: Wintery figures
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15370	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 11/7/2001
Subject: Need e-mail address
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15371	From: Horn, David	Date: 11/7/2001
Subject: Re: Insta Smoke with water
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15372	From: Dan Brindell	Date: 11/7/2001
Subject: Re: Disappearing train
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15373	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 11/8/2001
Subject: Re: Insta Smoke with water
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15374	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 11/8/2001
Subject: New Orleans
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15375	From: Horn, David	Date: 11/8/2001
Subject: Re: Insta Smoke with water
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15376	From: Horn, David	Date: 11/8/2001
Subject: Re: Insta Smoke with water
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15377	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/8/2001
Subject: Re: New Orleans
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15378	From: Tim Brown	Date: 11/8/2001
Subject: Re: Wintery figures
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15379	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 11/8/2001
Subject: Re: New Orleans
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15380	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 11/8/2001
Subject: Disappearing train
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15381	From: Eugene Steffan	Date: 11/8/2001
Subject: Re: Disappearing train
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15382	From: IronHorse	Date: 11/8/2001
Subject: Fog on my layout
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15383	From: Robert Wight	Date: 11/8/2001
Subject: 696 Track trip
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15384	From: sonny2158@yahoo.com	Date: 11/8/2001
Subject: Landscaped Train Table for Sale, Garland,TX Area
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15385	From: Robert Wight	Date: 11/8/2001
Subject: making your own roof's
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15386	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 11/8/2001
Subject: Re: making your own roof's
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15387	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 11/8/2001
Subject: Re: Disappearing train
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15388	From: NotColdEnough@hotmail.com	Date: 11/8/2001
Subject: model RR addiction
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15389	From: Charlie&Edith	Date: 11/8/2001
Subject: Control Buttons
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15390	From: joeawood@aol.com	Date: 11/9/2001
Subject: New Orleans
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15391	From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com	Date: 11/9/2001
Subject: Found: Gilbert Newsstand for sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15392	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 11/9/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1200
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15393	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 11/9/2001
Subject: Re: New Orleans
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15394	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 11/10/2001
Subject: 751 Log Loader
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15395	From: NotColdEnough@hotmail.com	Date: 11/10/2001
Subject: Sticking brushes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15396	From: gino restivo	Date: 11/10/2001
Subject: Re: Sticking brushes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15397	From: Gary Chidester	Date: 11/10/2001
Subject: Test?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15398	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 11/11/2001
Subject: sticking brushes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15399	From: ALLAN V EISENHAUR	Date: 11/11/2001
Subject: Digest 1201
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15400	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 11/11/2001
Subject: Re: sticking brushes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15401	From: Mr V Kosobiecki	Date: 11/11/2001
Subject: Udanavarga 5:18) Confucianism: "Is there
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15402	From: Mr V Kosobiecki	Date: 11/11/2001
Subject: When the new language.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15403	From: Jay	Date: 11/11/2001
Subject: Bumpers?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15404	From: Don Thompson	Date: 11/11/2001
Subject: Re: Bumpers?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15405	From: David	Date: 11/11/2001
Subject: Auction Of The Week......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15406	From: Jim Hannawald	Date: 11/11/2001
Subject: Rivets
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15407	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 11/11/2001
Subject: Item of the week
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15408	From: Horn, David	Date: 11/11/2001
Subject: sticking brushes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15409	From: ron inscho	Date: 11/11/2001
Subject: eBay item 1030468003 (Ends Nov-15-01 145901 PST ) - NORFOLK SOUTHER
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15410	From: lancemccold@chartertn.net	Date: 11/11/2001
Subject: Grading trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15411	From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com	Date: 11/11/2001
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15412	From: gino restivo	Date: 11/11/2001
Subject: Re: Grading trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15413	From: David	Date: 11/11/2001
Subject: Re: eBay item 1030468003 (Ends Nov-15-01 145901 PST ) - NORFOLK SOU
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15414	From: David	Date: 11/11/2001
Subject: Re: Grading trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15415	From: David	Date: 11/11/2001
Subject: Re: Bumpers?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15416	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/11/2001
Subject: Re: Auction Of The Week......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15417	From: Don Thompson	Date: 11/12/2001
Subject: Re: Bumpers?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15418	From: Al Galli	Date: 11/12/2001
Subject: Train Auction
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15419	From: Rick Evans	Date: 11/12/2001
Subject: Re: Auction Of The Week......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15420	From: Bob	Date: 11/12/2001
Subject: Brass Button.........?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15421	From: David	Date: 11/12/2001
Subject: Re: Brass Button.........?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15422	From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT	Date: 11/12/2001
Subject: Re: Brass Button.........?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15423	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 11/12/2001
Subject: TENDER
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15424	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/12/2001
Subject: Re: Brass Button.........?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15425	From: kempfam@aol.com	Date: 11/12/2001
Subject: Alco Motor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15426	From: beanie_bari@yahoo.com	Date: 11/12/2001
Subject: American Flyer running on AC?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15427	From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com	Date: 11/12/2001
Subject: 785 Coal Loader Wiring
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15428	From: David Garber	Date: 11/12/2001
Subject: Track Trips
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15429	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 11/12/2001
Subject: Alco Motor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15430	From: David	Date: 11/13/2001
Subject: Re: 785 Coal Loader Wiring
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15431	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 11/13/2001
Subject: "S"tructures
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15432	From: Hannon	Date: 11/13/2001
Subject: Alco Motor ... more ideas
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15433	From: Horn, David	Date: 11/13/2001
Subject: balky Alco
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15434	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 11/13/2001
Subject: S gauge tinplate track in new radii
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15435	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 11/13/2001
Subject: AC/DC Blown Meter Blues
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15436	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/13/2001
Subject: Re: Brass Button.........?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15437	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/13/2001
Subject: Re: Alco Motor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15438	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/13/2001
Subject: Re: American Flyer running on AC?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15439	From: Thomas Stoltz	Date: 11/13/2001
Subject: kadee couplers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15440	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 11/14/2001
Subject: American Flyer running on AC?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15441	From: jhodges@pen.k12.va.us	Date: 11/14/2001
Subject: Transformer Info Needed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15442	From: Hannon	Date: 11/14/2001
Subject: Alco Brushes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15443	From: Horn, David	Date: 11/14/2001
Subject: Mold signature?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15444	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 11/14/2001
Subject: Fwd: AMERICAN MODELS CUSTOM TRAINS BLATANT AD
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15445	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 11/14/2001
Subject: Fwd: (no subject) CORP
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15446	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 11/14/2001
Subject: 343's for sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15447	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 11/14/2001
Subject: Re: S gauge tinplate track in new radii
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15448	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 11/14/2001
Subject: Re: kadee couplers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15449	From: THOMAS C. FISHER	Date: 11/14/2001
Subject: Re: Transformer Info Needed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15450	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/14/2001
Subject: Re: Transformer Info Needed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15451	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/14/2001
Subject: Re: American Flyer running on AC?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15452	From: Eugene Steffan	Date: 11/15/2001
Subject: 718 Mail Car, Red Arm
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15453	From: Horn, David	Date: 11/15/2001
Subject: transformers including updated summary
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15454	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 11/15/2001
Subject: Re: 718 Mail Car, Red Arm
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15455	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 11/15/2001
Subject: Re: 718 Mail Car, Red Arm
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15456	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 11/15/2001
Subject: Re: Mold signature?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15457	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/15/2001
Subject: Re: Transformer Info Needed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15458	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 11/15/2001
Subject: S-Video Volume III
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15459	From: Horn, David	Date: 11/15/2001
Subject: FW: transformers including updated summary
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15460	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 11/15/2001
Subject: Re: Transformer Info Needed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15461	From: David	Date: 11/15/2001
Subject: Re: 718 Mail Car, Red Arm
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15462	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/15/2001
Subject: Re: transformers including updated summary
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15463	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 11/15/2001
Subject: S-Video Vol.III
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15464	From: Eugene Steffan	Date: 11/15/2001
Subject: Re: 718 Mail Car, Red Arm
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15465	From: Gary Chidester	Date: 11/15/2001
Subject: Smoke units
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15466	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 11/16/2001
Subject: Transformer voltages
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15467	From: mark.p.baker@bt.com	Date: 11/16/2001
Subject: KING'S CROSS RAILWAY BOOK FAIR
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15468	From: Rick Evans	Date: 11/16/2001
Subject: HO DeWitt Clinton Train set....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15469	From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT	Date: 11/16/2001
Subject: Re: HO DeWitt Clinton Train set....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15470	From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT	Date: 11/16/2001
Subject: Re: HO DeWitt Clinton Train set....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15471	From: Walt Danylak	Date: 11/16/2001
Subject: Re: HO DeWitt Clinton Train set....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15472	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 11/17/2001
Subject: S-Video Vol. III
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15473	From: gpmlg@aol.com	Date: 11/17/2001
Subject: looking for 2001 xmas boxcar
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15474	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 11/17/2001
Subject: Jacksonville Florida
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15475	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 11/17/2001
Subject: New Video - S-Scale/S-Gauge
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15476	From: Bill Lane	Date: 11/17/2001
Subject: another decal plea
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15477	From: Clifford Manning	Date: 11/17/2001
Subject: air chime whistle
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15478	From: Rick Evans	Date: 11/17/2001
Subject: Re: New Video - S-Scale/S-Gauge
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15479	From: Tim Brown	Date: 11/17/2001
Subject: Scranton Train Show on Sunday
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15480	From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT	Date: 11/17/2001
Subject: Re: Jacksonville Florida
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15481	From: Rick Evans	Date: 11/17/2001
Subject: Re: New Video - S-Scale/S-Gauge
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15482	From: Rick Evans	Date: 11/17/2001
Subject: I'm confused now!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15483	From: Ted Walton	Date: 11/17/2001
Subject: Re: HO DeWitt Clinton Train set....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15484	From: Rick Evans	Date: 11/17/2001
Subject: Address request.......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15485	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 11/17/2001
Subject: Re: Address request.......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15486	From: David Garber	Date: 11/17/2001
Subject: address Paul Nelson
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15487	From: Tim Brown	Date: 11/18/2001
Subject: Scranton Train Show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15488	From: Ted Weiler	Date: 11/18/2001
Subject: Re: New Video - S-Scale/S-Gauge
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15489	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 11/18/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1208
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15490	From: Scott Brown	Date: 11/18/2001
Subject: Christmas Project
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15491	From: Clifford Manning	Date: 11/18/2001
Subject: Air Chime Whistles
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15492	From: Rick Evans	Date: 11/18/2001
Subject: Speaking of Paul C. Nelson.......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15493	From: Mark Preman	Date: 11/19/2001
Subject: TCA Train Show - Orlando Area
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15494	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 11/19/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1210
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15495	From: pdng@aol.com	Date: 11/19/2001
Subject: E-UNIT wiring diagram
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15496	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/19/2001
Subject: Re: E-UNIT wiring diagram
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15497	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/19/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1210
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15498	From: Jay	Date: 11/19/2001
Subject: Hartford CT show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15499	From: J.Frederick Boberts	Date: 11/19/2001
Subject: Vibrators
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15500	From: David	Date: 11/19/2001
Subject: Re: TCA Train Show - Orlando Area
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15501	From: rfgiardina@yahoo.com	Date: 11/19/2001
Subject: RFG parts now Direct from RFGCO.com
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15502	From: Jay E. Mellon	Date: 11/19/2001
Subject: News From New Orleans
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15503	From: Bob	Date: 11/19/2001
Subject: 740-742 ?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15504	From: David	Date: 11/19/2001
Subject: Re: 740-742 ?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15505	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 11/19/2001
Subject: S-Video Vol. III
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15506	From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com	Date: 11/19/2001
Subject: S-Gauge Promoting
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15507	From: The Reis's	Date: 11/19/2001
Subject: SHS PS@ Hoppers for Sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15508	From: TWesthelle@aol.com	Date: 11/19/2001
Subject: Re: Dead Gauge
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15509	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 11/19/2001
Subject: Re: S-Gauge Promoting
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15510	From: Don Thompson	Date: 11/19/2001
Subject: Re: Dead Gauge
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15511	From: The Reis's	Date: 11/19/2001
Subject: Re: S-Gauge Promoting
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15512	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 11/19/2001
Subject: Re: Hartford CT show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15513	From: David	Date: 11/19/2001
Subject: Re: S-Gauge Promoting
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15514	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/19/2001
Subject: Re: 740-742 ?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15515	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 11/19/2001
Subject: 740-742?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15516	From: Howard Sheffield	Date: 11/19/2001
Subject: Re: S-Gauge Promoting
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15517	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/19/2001
Subject: Re: S-Gauge Promoting
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15518	From: Rick Evans	Date: 11/20/2001
Subject: S-Gauge Promoting & the CTT '02 Sweepstakes....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15519	From: louis glumac	Date: 11/20/2001
Subject: I could explain the point.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15520	From: ljaneski@bellsouth.net	Date: 11/20/2001
Subject: Re: News From New Orleans
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15521	From: W. Thomas Boussum	Date: 11/20/2001
Subject: Care and feeding of whistle controllers.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15522	From: Roy E. Plotnick	Date: 11/20/2001
Subject: S-fest & competing events
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15523	From: aag_rlg@yahoo.com	Date: 11/20/2001
Subject: S-Gauge Promoting
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15524	From: rfgiardina@yahoo.com	Date: 11/20/2001
Subject: Re: 740-742
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15525	From: Scott Holm	Date: 11/20/2001
Subject: S-Fest
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15526	From: Scott Holm	Date: 11/20/2001
Subject: Heavyweight chassis?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15527	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 11/20/2001
Subject: Re: Dead Gauge
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15528	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 11/20/2001
Subject: Re: Dead Gauge
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15529	From: SMASTER636@aol.com	Date: 11/20/2001
Subject: AF Question
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15530	From: David	Date: 11/20/2001
Subject: Re: AF Question
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15531	From: afstrains@aol.com	Date: 11/20/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1211
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15532	From: Michael Greene	Date: 11/21/2001
Subject: Re: Dead Gauge
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15533	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 11/21/2001
Subject: New file uploaded to S-Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15534	From: eddie rickenbacker	Date: 11/21/2001
Subject: Re: Dead Gauge
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15535	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 11/21/2001
Subject: S-Video Vol. III
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15536	From: Doug Peck	Date: 11/21/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] VIRUS alert
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15537	From: Scott Holm	Date: 11/21/2001
Subject: Ebay caboose
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15538	From: michael prell	Date: 11/21/2001
Subject: Re: Dead Gauge
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15539	From: Don Thompson	Date: 11/21/2001
Subject: Re: Dead Gauge
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15540	From: Nick and Becky Colleran	Date: 11/21/2001
Subject: Horn generator contact cleaning
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15541	From: Robert E. Yablonski	Date: 11/21/2001
Subject: 12B
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15542	From: Clay Buckage	Date: 11/21/2001
Subject: Fw: AC Gilbert
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15543	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/21/2001
Subject: Re: New file uploaded to S-Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15544	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/21/2001
Subject: Re: Ebay caboose
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15545	From: Alex	Date: 11/21/2001
Subject: Train trek
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15546	From: Alex	Date: 11/21/2001
Subject: FW: Train trek
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15547	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 11/22/2001
Subject: Re: Dead Gauge
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15548	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 11/22/2001
Subject: Re: Dead Gauge (NOT!)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15549	From: TWesthelle@aol.com	Date: 11/22/2001
Subject: Re: Dead Gauge
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15550	From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com	Date: 11/22/2001
Subject: S-Helper in Hoby Shops.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15551	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 11/22/2001
Subject: Turkey day
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15552	From: don652@webtv.net	Date: 11/22/2001
Subject: E-Bay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15553	From: Wayne and Alice Beachy	Date: 11/22/2001
Subject: Web Page updates
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15554	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 11/22/2001
Subject: Re: S-Helper in Hobby Shops
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15555	From: Rick Evans	Date: 11/22/2001
Subject: Re: E-Bay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15556	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 11/23/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1214
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15557	From: Mike Vana	Date: 11/23/2001
Subject: Trivial Fact
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15558	From: Tom Stolte	Date: 11/23/2001
Subject: If anyone here is having trouble getting to my web page
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15559	From: mark.p.baker@bt.com	Date: 11/23/2001
Subject: KING'S CROSS RAILWAY BOOK FAIR
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15560	From: rodgers_carl@hotmail.com	Date: 11/23/2001
Subject: Information on viparts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15561	From: John Foley	Date: 11/23/2001
Subject: Promotions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15562	From: Rick Evans	Date: 11/23/2001
Subject: Hallmark 1947 Harley-Davidson Ornament.....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15563	From: Walt Danylak	Date: 11/23/2001
Subject: Re: Information on viparts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15564	From: Don Thompson	Date: 11/23/2001
Subject: Re: Trivial Fact
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15565	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 11/24/2001
Subject: Re: Trivial Fact
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15566	From: Nick and Becky Colleran	Date: 11/24/2001
Subject: Viparts Re: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1216
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15567	From: Doug Peck	Date: 11/24/2001
Subject: Re: AF Parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15568	From: Bruce Papky	Date: 11/24/2001
Subject: 2001 AF Christmas car...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15569	From: rfgiardina@yahoo.com	Date: 11/24/2001
Subject: New Products by RFG
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15570	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 11/24/2001
Subject: Lionel Officer Interview
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15571	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 11/24/2001
Subject: In case you didn't know...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15572	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 11/24/2001
Subject: Re: Lionel Officer Interview
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15573	From: Don Thompson	Date: 11/25/2001
Subject: Re: MTH figures
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15574	From: NotColdEnough@hotmail.com	Date: 11/25/2001
Subject: Speed up MTH coal loader
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15575	From: IronHorse	Date: 11/25/2001
Subject: Re: Lionel Officer Interview
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15576	From: Tim Brown	Date: 11/25/2001
Subject: Re: Lionel Officer Interview
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15577	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/25/2001
Subject: Re: Lionel Officer Interview
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15578	From: Bente Velapoldi	Date: 11/25/2001
Subject: MTH
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15579	From: Carl Tuveson	Date: 11/25/2001
Subject: Re: MTH
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15580	From: Carl Tuveson	Date: 11/25/2001
Subject: Re: Speed up MTH coal loader
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15581	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 11/25/2001
Subject: Re: MTH figures
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15582	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 11/25/2001
Subject: MTH COAL LOADER / Lionel Interview
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15583	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 11/25/2001
Subject: attachments
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15584	From: Dennis Conway	Date: 11/25/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] MTH
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15585	From: Carl Tuveson	Date: 11/25/2001
Subject: A new page on Carl's web site. Scenic backdrop.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15586	From: Lance McCold	Date: 11/25/2001
Subject: Diaphragms for Superliner cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15587	From: johnbraker@webtv.net	Date: 11/25/2001
Subject: RECOMMENDATIONS NEEDED
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15588	From: Rick Evans	Date: 11/25/2001
Subject: PLASTICVILLE- Vintage Woolworth Ad
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15589	From: alex sibbald	Date: 11/26/2001
Subject: 312ac
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15590	From: TED R LARSON	Date: 11/26/2001
Subject: Vehicles
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15591	From: Hannon	Date: 11/26/2001
Subject: Re: 312AC Problems
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15592	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/26/2001
Subject: Re: 312ac
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15593	From: Ted Larson	Date: 11/26/2001
Subject: Freight Car Paint Schemes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15594	From: davedesian@clarkus.com	Date: 11/26/2001
Subject: Vol III
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15595	From: Doug Peck	Date: 11/26/2001
Subject: Re: MTH figures
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15596	From: Craig	Date: 11/26/2001
Subject: New, but not to S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15597	From: Douglass Allen	Date: 11/26/2001
Subject: ballast
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15598	From: Don Thompson	Date: 11/26/2001
Subject: Re: MTH figures
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15599	From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com	Date: 11/26/2001
Subject: Re: New, but not to S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15600	From: Lance McCold	Date: 11/26/2001
Subject: Diaphragms for Superliner cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15601	From: David	Date: 11/26/2001
Subject: Re: New, but not to S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15602	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 11/26/2001
Subject: Re: New, but not to S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15603	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 11/26/2001
Subject: Re: Diaphragms for Superliner cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15604	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 11/26/2001
Subject: Correction
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15605	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/26/2001
Subject: Re: ballast
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15606	From: dlehnhoff@hotmail.com	Date: 11/26/2001
Subject: Coal Loader pulley
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15607	From: Tom Young	Date: 11/26/2001
Subject: Re: A new page on Carl's web site. Scenic backdrop.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15608	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/26/2001
Subject: Re: New, but not to S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15609	From: milayman@aol.com	Date: 11/26/2001
Subject: Looking for solutions (ideas)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15610	From: Al Paolozzi	Date: 11/26/2001
Subject: Re: Looking for solutions (ideas)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15611	From: alex sibbald	Date: 11/27/2001
Subject: 312ac solutions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15612	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/27/2001
Subject: Re: 312ac solutions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15613	From: Craig E Manning	Date: 11/27/2001
Subject: Fwd: Re: [S-Trains] New, but not to S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15614	From: Tom Stolte	Date: 11/27/2001
Subject: New decals from Oddballs Decals - N, HO, S and O scales
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15615	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 11/27/2001
Subject: S-Video
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15616	From: Bill Clark	Date: 11/27/2001
Subject: Pictures of Bob Hogan's Rairoad
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15617	From: Tom Stolte	Date: 11/27/2001
Subject: Fw: New decals from Oddballs Decals - N, HO, S and O scales - CORR
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15618	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 11/27/2001
Subject: Ballast, gravel, and grit
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15619	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 11/27/2001
Subject: locomotive running (or not)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15620	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 11/27/2001
Subject: Re: NASG DISPATCH
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15621	From: John Foley	Date: 11/27/2001
Subject: Re: NASG DISPATCH
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15622	From: Doug Peck	Date: 11/27/2001
Subject: Re: "How to....."manual for AF
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15623	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/27/2001
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [S-Trains] New, but not to S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15624	From: Lance McCold	Date: 11/27/2001
Subject: Report on diaphragms for AM superliner cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15625	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 11/27/2001
Subject: Re: New, but not to S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15626	From: Steven P. Salaway	Date: 11/27/2001
Subject: Track Screws
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15627	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 11/27/2001
Subject: Re: ballast
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15628	From: gino restivo	Date: 11/27/2001
Subject: Re: Track Screws
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15629	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Re: New, but not to S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15630	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: diaphragms
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15631	From: David	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Re: Track Screws
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15632	From: LEAHY RUTH A	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Mel's Diner
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15633	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1220
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15634	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1219
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15635	From: mark.p.baker@bt.com	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1219
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15636	From: finerty, paul	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1220
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15637	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Re: New, but not to S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15638	From: Craig E Manning	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1220
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15639	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Re: New, but not to S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15640	From: Scott Brown	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Re: Mel's Diner
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15641	From: roy inman	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Holiday trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15642	From: Scott Holm	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: AM GG-1 and Flyer track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15643	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1219
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15644	From: Craig E Manning	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Re: Holiday trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15645	From: sigma@ecn.ab.ca	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1219
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15646	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Ammeter Usage
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15647	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Dewey's "too much" Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15648	From: Euell Johnson	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Re: Lionel Officer Interview
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15649	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Re: Track Screws
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15650	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1220
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15651	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Re: AM GG-1 and Flyer track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15652	From: Rick Evans	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1220
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15653	From: Craig E Manning	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1220
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15654	From: finerty, paul	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1220
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15655	From: Craig E Manning	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Reply messages...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15656	From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Reply button And Brad Nailer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15657	From: Craig E Manning	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Re: Reply button And Brad Nailer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15658	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Re: AM GG-1 and Flyer track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15659	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Re: diaphragms
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15660	From: Ted Walton	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Track Screws
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15661	From: Tim Brown	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Re: Track Screws
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15662	From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: 641 GONDOLA - COMMON OR RARE?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15663	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Re: Dewey's "too much" Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15664	From: Tim Brown	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: So many train show, so little time
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15665	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Re: New, but not to S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15666	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Re: New, but not to S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15667	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1220
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15668	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: To reply, or not to reply . . . that is the question.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15669	From: Lance McCold	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Loose drivers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15670	From: Alex Sibbald	Date: 11/29/2001
Subject: great american train show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15671	From: David	Date: 11/29/2001
Subject: Re: Track Screws
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15672	From: David	Date: 11/29/2001
Subject: Re: 641 GONDOLA - COMMON OR RARE?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15673	From: David	Date: 11/29/2001
Subject: Re: great american train show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15674	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 11/29/2001
Subject: Re: Loose drivers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15675	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 11/29/2001
Subject: Re: Loose drivers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15676	From: Scott Holm	Date: 11/29/2001
Subject: Re: Track Screws
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15677	From: Scott Holm	Date: 11/29/2001
Subject: 332 DC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15678	From: mvandiver2@aol.com	Date: 11/29/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1221
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15679	From: Horn, David	Date: 11/29/2001
Subject: 742 bumpers, track screws, shows
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15680	From: Ted Larson	Date: 11/29/2001
Subject: Administration
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15681	From: Carl Tuveson	Date: 11/29/2001
Subject: Re: Administration
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15682	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 11/29/2001
Subject: Loose drive wheel centers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15683	From: Bill Lane	Date: 11/29/2001
Subject: small chain
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15684	From: Dennis Conway	Date: 11/29/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] small chain
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15685	From: gunrjoe@aol.com	Date: 11/29/2001
Subject: Flyer track/roadbed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15686	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/29/2001
Subject: Re: Loose drivers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15687	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/29/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1221
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15688	From: john4flyer@yahoo.com	Date: 11/29/2001
Subject: Help with smoke unit......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15689	From: Don Thompson	Date: 11/29/2001
Subject: Re: Roadbed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15690	From: Donald P. Abrams	Date: 11/29/2001
Subject: 641 Rare?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15691	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 11/29/2001
Subject: Help with smoke unit
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15692	From: Carl Tuveson	Date: 11/29/2001
Subject: Re: Help with smoke unit......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15693	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/29/2001
Subject: Re: Help with smoke unit......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15694	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/29/2001
Subject: Re: Help with smoke unit......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15695	From: Craig E Manning	Date: 11/30/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1221
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15696	From: rpd3@att.net	Date: 11/30/2001
Subject: budd buddies
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15697	From: Scott Holm	Date: 11/30/2001
Subject: Re: Help with smoke unit
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15698	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 11/30/2001
Subject: Re: 641 Rare?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15699	From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com	Date: 11/30/2001
Subject: Re: word rare
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15700	From: lawrence Jackman	Date: 11/30/2001
Subject: Re: budd buddies
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15701	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 11/30/2001
Subject: New Building Kit
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15702	From: Bruce Crosby	Date: 11/30/2001
Subject: Re: Help with smoke unit
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15703	From: Mark Preman	Date: 11/30/2001
Subject: Florida Great American Train Shows
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15704	From: Tim Brown	Date: 11/30/2001
Subject: Train Shows
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15705	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 11/30/2001
Subject: Re: Train Shows, Sunday Dec 2
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15706	From: Don Thompson	Date: 11/30/2001
Subject: Re: SHS 2001 christmas cars Now in Stock
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15707	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 11/30/2001
Subject: mth sawmill
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15708	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 11/30/2001
Subject: Roadbed option
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15709	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 11/30/2001
Subject: NTTM
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15710	From: Lance McCold	Date: 11/30/2001
Subject: Thanks for loose driver help
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15711	From: negative_pitch@hotmail.com	Date: 12/1/2001
Subject: Smoke unit leaking
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15712	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 12/1/2001
Subject: New file uploaded to S-Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15713	From: TED R LARSON	Date: 12/1/2001
Subject: timeSaver
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15714	From: kathy/tom Gerbasi	Date: 12/2/2001
Subject: Loads for Flyer unloading car, and other stuff
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15715	From: Scott Brown	Date: 12/2/2001
Subject: Re: Loads for Flyer unloading car, and other stuff
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15716	From: Scott Brown	Date: 12/2/2001
Subject: Ebay prize of the week
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15717	From: Scott Brown	Date: 12/2/2001
Subject: Ebay prize of the week
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15718	From: Charlie&Edith	Date: 12/2/2001
Subject: Hopper?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15719	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 12/3/2001
Subject: Christmas lights resistor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15720	From: Craig E Manning	Date: 12/3/2001
Subject: Re: Christmas lights resistor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15721	From: davedesian@clarkus.com	Date: 12/3/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1221
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15722	From: Robichaud, Thomas Jr (Thomas)	Date: 12/3/2001
Subject: Performance of the new River Raisin UP Turbine
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15723	From: David	Date: 12/3/2001
Subject: Re: Train Shows, Sunday Dec 2
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15724	From: David	Date: 12/3/2001
Subject: Re: Smoke unit leaking
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15725	From: loubaldi@aol.com	Date: 12/3/2001
Subject: Re: Christmas lights resistor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15726	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/3/2001
Subject: Re: Smoke unit leaking
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15727	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 12/3/2001
Subject: The catenary is in and it works!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15728	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 12/3/2001
Subject: United Publishers Network
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15729	From: TED R LARSON	Date: 12/3/2001
Subject: squeal those wheels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15730	From: Tom Stolte	Date: 12/3/2001
Subject: Thanks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15731	From: NotColdEnough@hotmail.com	Date: 12/3/2001
Subject: Re: Christmas lights resistor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15732	From: roberte613@aol.com	Date: 12/3/2001
Subject: How do I wire?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15733	From: Raul Catta	Date: 12/3/2001
Subject: 21089 smokestack & chrome and re-chrome
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15734	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 12/3/2001
Subject: Re: Performance of the new River Raisin UP Turbine
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15735	From: lawrence Jackman	Date: 12/4/2001
Subject: No subject was specified.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15736	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 12/4/2001
Subject: Re: 21089 smokestack & chrome and re-chrome
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15737	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 12/4/2001
Subject: S-N-S web site
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15738	From: Christopher Bain	Date: 12/4/2001
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15739	From: Horn, David	Date: 12/4/2001
Subject: plastic truck equipped AF
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15740	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/4/2001
Subject: Re: plastic truck equipped AF
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15741	From: David	Date: 12/4/2001
Subject: Re: plastic truck equipped AF
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15742	From: jimandvickypat@earthlink.net	Date: 12/4/2001
Subject: Christmas Car's
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15743	From: Horn, David	Date: 12/4/2001
Subject: Re: plastic truck equipped AF
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15744	From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com	Date: 12/4/2001
Subject: Bypassing e-unit
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15745	From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com	Date: 12/4/2001
Subject: Previous post spelling
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15746	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 12/4/2001
Subject: Christmas lights
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15747	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 12/4/2001
Subject: S-Video Vol. III
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15748	From: TED R LARSON	Date: 12/5/2001
Subject: die cast
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15749	From: af21115	Date: 12/5/2001
Subject: Re: plastic truck equipped AF
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15750	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 12/5/2001
Subject: Call for assistance
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15751	From: michael prell	Date: 12/5/2001
Subject: Re: Call for assistance
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15752	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 12/5/2001
Subject: Re: Call for assistance
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15753	From: dwightlehnhoff	Date: 12/5/2001
Subject: Sawmill
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15754	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 12/5/2001
Subject: Re: Layout Lighting
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15755	From: ronaljac	Date: 12/5/2001
Subject: Test
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15756	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 12/5/2001
Subject: Bypassing e-unit
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15757	From: davedesian@clarkus.com	Date: 12/5/2001
Subject: By passing e-unit
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15758	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 12/5/2001
Subject: Re: Layout Lighting
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15759	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/5/2001
Subject: Re: plastic truck equipped AF
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15760	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/5/2001
Subject: Re: Bypassing e-unit
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15761	From: Bente Velapoldi	Date: 12/5/2001
Subject: Turnouts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15762	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 12/5/2001
Subject: Re: Bypassing e-unit
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15763	From: Horn, David	Date: 12/5/2001
Subject: Re: plastic truck equipped AF
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15764	From: Don Thompson	Date: 12/5/2001
Subject: Re: Turnouts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15765	From: Bente Velapoldi	Date: 12/6/2001
Subject: e-bay item
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15766	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 12/6/2001
Subject: DON'S 2002 CATALOG
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15767	From: Alan C Udy	Date: 12/6/2001
Subject: Ties for turnouts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15768	From: yazfacts	Date: 12/6/2001
Subject: M.T.H. 787 Log Loader........
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15769	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 12/6/2001
Subject: Whistling tenders
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15770	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 12/6/2001
Subject: Train donations
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15771	From: david_garber2000	Date: 12/6/2001
Subject: 15769 Whistle tender
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15772	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 12/6/2001
Subject: Re: Whistling tenders
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15773	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/6/2001
Subject: Re: Whistling tenders
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15774	From: Scott Brown	Date: 12/6/2001
Subject: $125 for a 302 AC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15775	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/6/2001
Subject: Don't you just love eBay's logic?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15776	From: bellokdaka@webtv.net	Date: 12/6/2001
Subject: Re: $125 for a 302 AC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15777	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 12/6/2001
Subject: SD60's
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15778	From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT	Date: 12/6/2001
Subject: Re: Don't you just love eBay's logic?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15779	From: af21115	Date: 12/6/2001
Subject: Re: Whistling tenders
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15780	From: Howard Sheffield	Date: 12/6/2001
Subject: Re: SD60's
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15781	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 12/6/2001
Subject: Re: Don't you just love eBay's logic?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15782	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 12/6/2001
Subject: Re: Whistling tenders
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15783	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 12/6/2001
Subject: Holiday Suggestions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15784	From: Scott Brown	Date: 12/6/2001
Subject: Re: $125 for a 302 AC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15785	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 12/6/2001
Subject: 3 Volume Video Sets.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15786	From: Scott Brown	Date: 12/6/2001
Subject: 302 AC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15787	From: Irving Washington	Date: 12/6/2001
Subject: Re: $125 for a 302 AC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15788	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 12/6/2001
Subject: Re: $125 for a 302 AC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15789	From: Bente Velapoldi	Date: 12/7/2001
Subject: Switches
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15790	From: af21115	Date: 12/7/2001
Subject: Advertisements
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15791	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 12/7/2001
Subject: Re: Person Collecting Trains for Needy Kids
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15792	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 12/7/2001
Subject: Re: S-Helper 2002 catalog
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15793	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 12/7/2001
Subject: TTOS tank car.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15794	From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com	Date: 12/7/2001
Subject: BY-PASSING e-unit
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15795	From: af21115	Date: 12/7/2001
Subject: Re: BY-PASSING e-unit
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15796	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 12/7/2001
Subject: Looking for Gerry Dobbs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15797	From: Scott Holm	Date: 12/7/2001
Subject: Electromagnetic Crane 583 vs 583A
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15798	From: THOMAS C. FISHER	Date: 12/7/2001
Subject: Re: Electromagnetic Crane 583 vs 583A
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15799	From: samusvulgaris	Date: 12/7/2001
Subject: AF Steamer Problems
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15800	From: af21115	Date: 12/7/2001
Subject: Re: Electromagnetic Crane 583 vs 583A
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15801	From: John Harvey	Date: 12/7/2001
Subject: Track Gauge for American Flyer Size Rail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15802	From: Carl Tuveson	Date: 12/7/2001
Subject: Re: AF Steamer Problems
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15803	From: Robert E. Yablonski	Date: 12/7/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1230
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15804	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/7/2001
Subject: Re: AF Steamer Problems
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15805	From: lawrence Jackman	Date: 12/7/2001
Subject: Re: Electromagnetic Crane 583 vs 583A
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15806	From: Charlie&Edith	Date: 12/7/2001
Subject: Dimensions,brass tray
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15807	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/8/2001
Subject: Re: Electromagnetic Crane 583 vs 583A
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15808	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 12/8/2001
Subject: Wheels a Sparking
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15809	From: TED R LARSON	Date: 12/8/2001
Subject: Fw: PacRail >> CN,CP
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15810	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 12/8/2001
Subject: S-Helper switches
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15811	From: lawrence Jackman	Date: 12/8/2001
Subject: Re: Electromagnetic Crane 583 vs 583A
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15812	From: robbe_wan	Date: 12/8/2001
Subject: Re: S-Helper switches
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15813	From: Donald P. Abrams	Date: 12/8/2001
Subject: 583 & 583A
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15814	From: Donald P. Abrams	Date: 12/8/2001
Subject: AF Steamer Problems
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15815	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 12/8/2001
Subject: Part needed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15816	From: JFrederick Roberts	Date: 12/8/2001
Subject: 583 A
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15817	From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com	Date: 12/8/2001
Subject: S-Helper switches
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15818	From: af21115	Date: 12/9/2001
Subject: Most Recent Guide
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15819	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 12/9/2001
Subject: Reverse only loco
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15820	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 12/9/2001
Subject: a christmas story - Off topic
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15821	From: gino restivo	Date: 12/9/2001
Subject: Re: Reverse only loco, gp-7 chassis
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15822	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 12/9/2001
Subject: S-helper switches redux
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15823	From: Tom Stolte	Date: 12/9/2001
Subject: [FC] Thanks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15824	From: Tom Stolte	Date: 12/9/2001
Subject: [FC] Thanks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15825	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 12/9/2001
Subject: Re: Reverse only loco
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15826	From: rodgers_carl	Date: 12/9/2001
Subject: Another Prize for the Ill informed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15827	From: scott brown	Date: 12/9/2001
Subject: Re: Another Prize for the Ill informed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15828	From: lawrence Jackman	Date: 12/9/2001
Subject: Re: Another Prize for the Ill informed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15829	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: 583 & 583A
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15830	From: scott brown	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: Another Prize for the Ill informed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15831	From: af21115	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: Part needed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15832	From: af21115	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: Another Prize for the Ill informed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15833	From: SMASTER636@aol.com	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Request for Part
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15834	From: Craig E Manning	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Reverse only loco
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15835	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: Another Prize for the Ill informed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15836	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: Another Prize for the Ill informed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15837	From: Craig E Manning	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: Another Prize for the Ill informed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15838	From: Horn, David	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: crane
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15839	From: Robichaud, Thomas Jr (Thomas)	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Chapter 2 of my experience with the RR UP Turbine.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15840	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: Another Prize for the Ill informed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15841	From: lawrence Jackman	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: Another Prize for the Ill informed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15842	From: lawrence Jackman	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: Another Prize for the Ill informed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15843	From: lawrence Jackman	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: Another Prize for the Ill informed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15844	From: Scott Brown	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: Another Prize for the Ill informed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15845	From: roberte613@aol.com	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Tires?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15846	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: Another Prize for the Ill informed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15847	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: Tires?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15848	From: ohiowx	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Heated discussion
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15849	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Die Cast S train!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15850	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: crane
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15851	From: Scott Brown	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: Another Prize for the Ill informed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15852	From: lawrence Jackman	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: Another Prize for the Ill informed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15853	From: lawrence Jackman	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: Another Prize for the Ill informed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15854	From: Michael Greene	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Die Cast S train!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15855	From: Euell Johnson	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Die Cast S train!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15856	From: royhoffman	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: World's Greatest Hobby Program
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15857	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: Die Cast S train!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15858	From: lawrence Jackman	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Die Cast S train!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15859	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: World's Greatest Hobby Program
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15860	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: ebay lunacy
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15861	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Die Cast S train!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15862	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: ebay lunacy
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15863	From: Craig E Manning	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: Die Cast S train!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15864	From: Bente Velapoldi	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: Tires?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15865	From: Ted Walton	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Another Prize for the Ill informed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15866	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Back to TRAINS!!! NOW!!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15867	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: Heated discussion
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15868	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: Die Cast S train!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15869	From: Bill Lane	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Blatant self promotion
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15870	From: robbe_wan	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: GAEX 922 Stamped
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15871	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: Die Cast S train!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15872	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Message for the Sunday Chat groupies.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15873	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: Another Prize for the Ill informed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15874	From: David A. Highfield	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Model train site
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15875	From: Jay	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Switch remote
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15876	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: Switch remote
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15877	From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: Model train site
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15878	From: Don Thompson	Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: Re: Switch remote
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15879	From: Hannon	Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: Water Pumps and Off-Topic
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15880	From: Jay	Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: Re: Switch Controllers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15881	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: Re: GAEX 922 Stamped
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15882	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: Re: Water Pumps and Off-Topic
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15883	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: Special to Jay and othe list "newbies" --Hang in there! was: Re: Sw
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15884	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: Re: GAEX 922 Stamped
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15885	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: Re: Switch Controllers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15886	From: Craig E Manning	Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: Re: Switch Controllers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15887	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1235
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15888	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: test
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15889	From: Gregg Mummert	Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: Plasticville Parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15890	From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com	Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: Re: Switch Controllers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15891	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1235
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15892	From: Scott Holm	Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: Re: Plasticville Parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15893	From: Robert Wight	Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: Off topic Fights
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15894	From: Don Thompson	Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: Re: SHS 2001 Christmas Car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15895	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: Re: Plasticville Parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15896	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: switch control boxes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15897	From: TWesthelle@aol.com	Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: Re 922 Car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15898	From: Hannon	Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: Religion
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15899	From: Bill Lane	Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: Blatant self promotion
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15900	From: Wayne and Alice Beachy	Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: New train list
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15901	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Die Cast S train!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15902	From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com	Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: Apology
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15903	From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com	Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: MTH Coal Loader Pulleys
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15904	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: Flat based milk cans
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15905	From: bellokdaka@webtv.net	Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: Anybody seen Gabe?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15906	From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com	Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: Yucky e-units
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15907	From: TED R LARSON	Date: 12/12/2001
Subject: Clearance
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15908	From: Craig E Manning	Date: 12/12/2001
Subject: Re: New train list
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15909	From: Craig E Manning	Date: 12/12/2001
Subject: Re: New train list
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15910	From: Carl Tuveson	Date: 12/12/2001
Subject: Re: MTH Coal Loader Pulleys
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15911	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 12/12/2001
Subject: Re: Anybody seen Gabe?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15912	From: Hansen, Bruce x4383	Date: 12/12/2001
Subject: Re: Something different...Trains questions !!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15913	From: Scott Holm	Date: 12/12/2001
Subject: Re: Lionel seaboard coal loader
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15914	From: Scott Holm	Date: 12/12/2001
Subject: Re: Yucky e-units
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15915	From: Scott Holm	Date: 12/12/2001
Subject: Re: Something different...Trains questions !!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15916	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 12/12/2001
Subject: Switch remote
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15917	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 12/12/2001
Subject: No mo' reverse units
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15918	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 12/12/2001
Subject: Re: A Christmas story - Off topic
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15919	From: TWesthelle@aol.com	Date: 12/12/2001
Subject: AF LTI Northern Pacific Set 1992 #49602 Mint
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15920	From: jfrr54	Date: 12/12/2001
Subject: Sam the Semiphore Man
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15921	From: lou342ac	Date: 12/12/2001
Subject: Mighty Machines
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15922	From: tomsmitty2001	Date: 12/12/2001
Subject: af turnout controllers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15923	From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com	Date: 12/12/2001
Subject: Fwd: [S-Trains] No mo' reverse units
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15924	From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com	Date: 12/12/2001
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15925	From: Doug Peck	Date: 12/12/2001
Subject: Re: PVL parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15926	From: John L.	Date: 12/12/2001
Subject: FLYONEL E UNIT
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15927	From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com	Date: 12/12/2001
Subject: Plasticville
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15928	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 12/12/2001
Subject: switch remote
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15929	From: TWesthelle@aol.com	Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: 970 Walking Brakeman
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15930	From: rodgers_carl	Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: Who really makes parts?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15931	From: neil.trump@bt.com	Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: Re: FLYONEL E UNIT
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15932	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: Re: Lionel seaboard coal loader
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15933	From: Horn, David	Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: ACG AF reverse units
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15934	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: Re: FLYONEL E UNIT
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15935	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: Re: ACG AF reverse units
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15936	From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com	Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: Re: ACG AF reverse units
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15937	From: Horn, David	Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: Re: ACG AF reverse units
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15938	From: Carl Tuveson	Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: Re: FLYONEL E UNIT
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15939	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: Atlas controllers for AF switches
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15940	From: IronHorse	Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: Re: Who really makes parts?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15941	From: af21115	Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: Re: Who really makes parts?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15942	From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT	Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: Re: Who really makes parts?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15943	From: yazfacts	Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: M.T.H. 787 Log Loader ??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15944	From: Doug Peck	Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: Re: Quartering
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15945	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: What the heck is it?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15946	From: ron inscho	Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: Re: What the heck is it?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15947	From: Howard Sheffield	Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: Re: ACG AF reverse units
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15948	From: gino restivo	Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: re.... who makes the parts .... ?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15949	From: af21115	Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: Re: What the heck is it?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15950	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: Re: What the heck is it?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15951	From: SMASTER636@aol.com	Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: AF Steam Whistle
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15952	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: 1/64 cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15953	From: bilfrazier@aol.com	Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: Re: E unit
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15954	From: Lance McCold	Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: A Revolving Beacon Solution
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15955	From: Bill Lane	Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: PRR boiler weight
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15956	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: Who Makes the Parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15957	From: Mike Vana	Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: Lionel/ AF Reverse Units
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15958	From: TED R LARSON	Date: 12/14/2001
Subject: Detail Parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15959	From: ALLAN V EISENHAUR	Date: 12/14/2001
Subject: FLYONEL E UNIT
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15960	From: ALLAN V EISENHAUR	Date: 12/14/2001
Subject: Federal Bill 602p
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15961	From: dwightlehnhoff	Date: 12/14/2001
Subject: MTH SAWMILL
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15962	From: David A. Highfield	Date: 12/14/2001
Subject: Re: Federal Bill 602p
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15963	From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com	Date: 12/14/2001
Subject: Re: Federal Bill 602p
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15964	From: Craig E Manning	Date: 12/14/2001
Subject: Re: Federal Bill 602p
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15965	From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT	Date: 12/14/2001
Subject: Re: MTH SAWMILL
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15966	From: Scott Brown	Date: 12/14/2001
Subject: Re: MTH SAWMILL
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15967	From: af21115	Date: 12/14/2001
Subject: Use Caution.....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15968	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 12/14/2001
Subject: HAPPY HOLIDAYS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15969	From: Craig E Manning	Date: 12/14/2001
Subject: Re: Use Caution.....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15970	From: trzp1800	Date: 12/14/2001
Subject: 15B Transformer, Proper reassembly
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15971	From: W. Thomas Boussum	Date: 12/14/2001
Subject: Restoration question.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15972	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/14/2001
Subject: Re: Restoration question.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15973	From: ALLAN V EISENHAUR	Date: 12/14/2001
Subject: Bill 602p Hoax
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15974	From: Scott Holm	Date: 12/14/2001
Subject: Re: Restoration question.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15975	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 12/14/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1240
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15976	From: THOMAS C. FISHER	Date: 12/14/2001
Subject: rotating beacon tops once more
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15977	From: Scott Brown	Date: 12/14/2001
Subject: MTH Sawmill
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15978	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 12/14/2001
Subject: Passenger car windows
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15979	From: Tom Young	Date: 12/14/2001
Subject: 30B
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15980	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/14/2001
Subject: Re: Restoration question.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15981	From: sonny2158	Date: 12/14/2001
Subject: S Guage Train Table for Sale in Garland, TX Area
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15982	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/14/2001
Subject: Re: 30B
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15983	From: gino restivo	Date: 12/14/2001
Subject: Re: 30B
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15984	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/14/2001
Subject: Re: Restoration question.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15985	From: Donald P. Abrams	Date: 12/15/2001
Subject: Re: Filling holes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15986	From: Donald P. Abrams	Date: 12/15/2001
Subject: Re: Ebay circus stuff
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15987	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 12/15/2001
Subject: B&O Daylight
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15988	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 12/15/2001
Subject: BEACON Problems
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15989	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/15/2001
Subject: Re: B&O Daylight
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15990	From: lensman@erols.com	Date: 12/15/2001
Subject: AF Log Loader - Hookup
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15991	From: Tom Young	Date: 12/15/2001
Subject: 30B
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15992	From: af21115	Date: 12/15/2001
Subject: Re: Ebay circus stuff
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15993	From: aag_rlg	Date: 12/15/2001
Subject: Train Layout for Open House
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15994	From: af21115	Date: 12/15/2001
Subject: Re: AF Log Loader - Hookup
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15995	From: Don Thompson	Date: 12/15/2001
Subject: Re: FLYONEL E UNIT
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15996	From: afsgauge@aol.com	Date: 12/15/2001
Subject: Rite Aid
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15997	From: Mark Preman	Date: 12/15/2001
Subject: I Have The MTH Sawmill
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15998	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/15/2001
Subject: [Fwd: Fw: Please check your computer!]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 15999	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/15/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Tis The Season to be frugal.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16000	From: Jim Hannawald	Date: 12/15/2001
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fw: Please check your computer!]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16001	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 12/16/2001
Subject: Another Hoax - Please check with me or Mcafee
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16002	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 12/16/2001
Subject: Where is the "files section"?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16003	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 12/16/2001
Subject: Re: VIRUS MIGRATION [S-Trains] : Please check your computer! {{( A
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16004	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/16/2001
Subject: [Fwd: virus warning and hoaxs]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16005	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/16/2001
Subject: Re: VIRUS MIGRATION [S-Trains] : Please check your computer! {{( A
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16006	From: Horn, David	Date: 12/16/2001
Subject: 15B and 30B
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16007	From: Mike Vana	Date: 12/16/2001
Subject: December List
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16008	From: Don Thompson	Date: 12/16/2001
Subject: Re: SHS Single F-3 A units availability
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16009	From: lensman@erols.com	Date: 12/16/2001
Subject: AF 18B Transfomer - No separate throttle control
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16010	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/16/2001
Subject: Re: AF 18B Transfomer - No separate throttle control
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16011	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 12/16/2001
Subject: 15B and 3oB
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16012	From: Horn, David	Date: 12/17/2001
Subject: SHS rolling stock, and 48721 SF caboose
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16013	From: sigma@ecn.ab.ca	Date: 12/17/2001
Subject: Re: "Awesome"
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16014	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/17/2001
Subject: Moderation, re: Re: "Awesome"
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16015	From: Craig E Manning	Date: 12/17/2001
Subject: Re: Moderation, re: Re: "Awesome"
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16016	From: Roger J. Dumas	Date: 12/17/2001
Subject: Re: Lionel Gabe is here!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16017	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 12/17/2001
Subject: PARTS HELP
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16018	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/17/2001
Subject: Re: PARTS HELP
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16019	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/17/2001
Subject: Can motor conversion
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16020	From: david_s_garber	Date: 12/17/2001
Subject: what gauge ?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16021	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 12/17/2001
Subject: 342DC AD
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16022	From: joe messinger	Date: 12/17/2001
Subject: Re-railer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16023	From: joe messinger	Date: 12/17/2001
Subject: correction
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16024	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 12/17/2001
Subject: rereailer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16025	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/17/2001
Subject: Re: Re-railer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16026	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 12/17/2001
Subject: Re: what gauge ?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16027	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 12/17/2001
Subject: Re: SHS rolling stock, and 48721 SF caboose
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16028	From: lensman@erols.com	Date: 12/17/2001
Subject: Re: AF 18B Transfomer - No separate throttle control
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16029	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 12/17/2001
Subject: derailments at switch (was no separate throttle control)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16030	From: jahoozdumm	Date: 12/17/2001
Subject: Re: PARTS HELP
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16031	From: kathy/tom Gerbasi	Date: 12/17/2001
Subject: bad virus
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16032	From: kathy/tom Gerbasi	Date: 12/17/2001
Subject: maybe not a bad virus
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16033	From: Bente Velapoldi	Date: 12/17/2001
Subject: Re: correction
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16034	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/17/2001
Subject: Re: SHS rolling stock, and 48721 SF caboose
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16035	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/17/2001
Subject: Re: AF 18B Transfomer - No separate throttle control
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16036	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/17/2001
Subject: Re: bad virus
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16037	From: TED R LARSON	Date: 12/18/2001
Subject: sulfnbk.exe
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16038	From: Craig E Manning	Date: 12/18/2001
Subject: Re: bad virus
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16039	From: Craig E Manning	Date: 12/18/2001
Subject: Re: bad virus
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16040	From: kathy/tom Gerbasi	Date: 12/18/2001
Subject: sorry for hoax message
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16041	From: Horn, David	Date: 12/18/2001
Subject: Re: SHS rolling stock, and 48721 SF caboose
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16042	From: Horn, David	Date: 12/18/2001
Subject: Re: fussy switches
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16043	From: roberte613@aol.com	Date: 12/18/2001
Subject: Wide-Eyed Kids
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16044	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 12/18/2001
Subject: Re: SHS rolling stock, and 48721 SF caboose
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16045	From: kathy/tom Gerbasi	Date: 12/18/2001
Subject: hoax: apology and remedy
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16046	From: Ted Larson	Date: 12/18/2001
Subject: NP 1974
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16047	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/18/2001
Subject: Bridge rectifiers from Radio Shack
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16048	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 12/18/2001
Subject: Re: Bridge rectifiers from Radio Shack
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16049	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 12/18/2001
Subject: MTH 787 log loader (30-9119)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16050	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/18/2001
Subject: Re: MTH 787 log loader (30-9119)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16051	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 12/18/2001
Subject: Can motor conversion
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16052	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/18/2001
Subject: Re: cranky 283
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16053	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 12/18/2001
Subject: can motor conversion
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16054	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/18/2001
Subject: Re: cranky 283
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16055	From: TWesthelle@aol.com	Date: 12/18/2001
Subject: American Flyer HO Value
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16056	From: up6936	Date: 12/18/2001
Subject: Train Fest 2001
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16057	From: Scott Holm	Date: 12/18/2001
Subject: Re: cranky 283
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16058	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/18/2001
Subject: Re: cranky 283
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16059	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/18/2001
Subject: Re: cranky 283
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16060	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/18/2001
Subject: Re: cranky 283
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16061	From: Scott Holm	Date: 12/18/2001
Subject: Re: cranky 283
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16062	From: Don Thompson	Date: 12/18/2001
Subject: Re: SHS rolling stock, and 48721 SF caboose
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16063	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 12/18/2001
Subject: converting to DC (was cranky 283)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16064	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/18/2001
Subject: Re: cranky 283
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16065	From: lawrence Jackman	Date: 12/19/2001
Subject: Re: what gauge ?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16066	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/19/2001
Subject: LIFTOFF!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16067	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/19/2001
Subject: Night before Christmas
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16068	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 12/19/2001
Subject: uncoupling SHS freight cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16069	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 12/19/2001
Subject: Re: uncoupling SHS freight cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16070	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 12/19/2001
Subject: converting to DC (was cranky 283)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16071	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/19/2001
Subject: Re: converting to DC (was cranky 283)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16072	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/19/2001
Subject: Re: converting to DC (was cranky 283)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16073	From: Horn, David	Date: 12/19/2001
Subject: Re: cranky 283
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16074	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/19/2001
Subject: Re: LIFTOFF!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16075	From: TED R LARSON	Date: 12/19/2001
Subject: Re: Detail Parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16076	From: Donald P. Abrams	Date: 12/19/2001
Subject: Subject: Re: cranky 283
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16077	From: Charlie&Edith	Date: 12/19/2001
Subject: What the heck is it?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16078	From: JFrederick Roberts	Date: 12/19/2001
Subject: Re-Mount a sinterated sideframe
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16079	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/19/2001
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: cranky 283
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16080	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 12/19/2001
Subject: shoelaces (283)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16081	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/19/2001
Subject: Re: Re-Mount a sinterated sideframe
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16082	From: Bente Velapoldi	Date: 12/20/2001
Subject: Re: LIFTOFF!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16083	From: Don Thompson	Date: 12/20/2001
Subject: Re: LIFTOFF!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16084	From: THOMAS E HILLERY	Date: 12/20/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1249
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16085	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 12/20/2001
Subject: Re: Re-Mount a sinterated sideframe
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16086	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 12/20/2001
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16087	From: Horn, David	Date: 12/20/2001
Subject: Re: sideframe repair
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16088	From: Scott Holm	Date: 12/20/2001
Subject: Re: converting to DC (was cranky 283)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16089	From: Scott Holm	Date: 12/20/2001
Subject: Re: can motor conversion
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16090	From: Scott Holm	Date: 12/20/2001
Subject: Re: Re-Mount a sinterated sideframe
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16091	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/20/2001
Subject: Re: Re-Mount a sinterated sideframe
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16092	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 12/20/2001
Subject: Re: can motor conversion
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16093	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/20/2001
Subject: Converting AC Flyer Locos to DC with directional control
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16094	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/20/2001
Subject: Re: converting to DC (was cranky 283)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16095	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 12/20/2001
Subject: Polarity reversing
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16096	From: Robichaud, Thomas Jr (Thomas)	Date: 12/20/2001
Subject: AM SD60 DCC ready
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16097	From: Doug Peck	Date: 12/20/2001
Subject: Re: wire
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16098	From: gino restivo	Date: 12/20/2001
Subject: re , wire / shoestrings ?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16099	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/20/2001
Subject: Re: LIFTOFF!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16100	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/20/2001
Subject: Re: LIFTOFF!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16101	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/20/2001
Subject: Re: converting to DC (was cranky 283)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16102	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 12/20/2001
Subject: Re: LIFTOFF!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16103	From: Jay	Date: 12/20/2001
Subject: Wire size
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16104	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/20/2001
Subject: Re: Wire size
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16105	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 12/20/2001
Subject: wire size
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16106	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/20/2001
Subject: Re: LIFTOFF!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16107	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 12/20/2001
Subject: Superflex wire
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16108	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 12/20/2001
Subject: Wiring
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16109	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/20/2001
Subject: Re: LIFTOFF!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16110	From: bilfrazier@aol.com	Date: 12/20/2001
Subject: Re: DC conversion
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16111	From: Eugene Steffan	Date: 12/20/2001
Subject: Wire Size
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16112	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/21/2001
Subject: Re: LIFTOFF!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16113	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/21/2001
Subject: Re: LIFTOFF!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16114	From: Roger J. Dumas	Date: 12/21/2001
Subject: 752 Seaboard Coaler
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16115	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/21/2001
Subject: Re: Can motor conversion
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16116	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/21/2001
Subject: Re: LIFTOFF!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16117	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/21/2001
Subject: Re: LIFTOFF!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16118	From: JFrederick Roberts	Date: 12/21/2001
Subject: 1/2 Wave
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16119	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 12/21/2001
Subject: Re: converting to DC (was cranky 283)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16120	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 12/21/2001
Subject: MTH 787 (Was Lionel Pricing)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16121	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 12/21/2001
Subject: Re: Wire size
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16122	From: Dennis Conway	Date: 12/21/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: Wire size
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16123	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/21/2001
Subject: Re: 1/2 Wave
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16124	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 12/21/2001
Subject: Wire
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16125	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/21/2001
Subject: Fw: AF Turntable
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16126	From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com	Date: 12/21/2001
Subject: Wire
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16127	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 12/21/2001
Subject: NPSG DECEMBER NEWSLETTER
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16128	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 12/21/2001
Subject: Re: LIFTOFF!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16129	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/21/2001
Subject: Re: LIFTOFF!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16130	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 12/21/2001
Subject: turntable
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16131	From: TCS	Date: 12/21/2001
Subject: New decals from Oddballs Decals - N, HO, S and O scales
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16132	From: joe messinger	Date: 12/22/2001
Subject: Track Repair?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16133	From: yazfacts	Date: 12/22/2001
Subject: Switch Derailing problems with my #293.........
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16134	From: Scott Brown	Date: 12/22/2001
Subject: TrainWorld
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16135	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/22/2001
Subject: Re: Track Repair?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16136	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 12/22/2001
Subject: S Trains for Christmas
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16137	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/22/2001
Subject: Re: Track Repair?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16138	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/22/2001
Subject: Re: Switch Derailing problems with my #293.........
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16139	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/22/2001
Subject: Re: track repair
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16140	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 12/22/2001
Subject: holiday fun
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16141	From: IronHorse	Date: 12/22/2001
Subject: Re: Track Repair?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16142	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 12/22/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1252
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16143	From: Jim Hannawald	Date: 12/22/2001
Subject: Knuckle Coupler
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16144	From: Scott Brown	Date: 12/22/2001
Subject: MTH Log Loader
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16145	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 12/22/2001
Subject: knuckle couplers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16146	From: John L.	Date: 12/22/2001
Subject: 8B Transformer Parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16147	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 12/22/2001
Subject: 8B parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16148	From: lensman@erols.com	Date: 12/22/2001
Subject: Log Loader Setup
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16149	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 12/23/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1252
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16150	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 12/23/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1252
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16151	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 12/23/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1253
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16152	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/23/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1252
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16153	From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com	Date: 12/23/2001
Subject: Holidays.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16154	From: Horn, David	Date: 12/24/2001
Subject: 751A log loader
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16155	From: W. Thomas Boussum	Date: 12/24/2001
Subject: Holiday greetings.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16156	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 12/24/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Digest Number 1057
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16157	From: david_garber2000	Date: 12/24/2001
Subject: xmas cheer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16158	From: John Foley	Date: 12/24/2001
Subject: Happy Holidays
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16159	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/24/2001
Subject: Franklin reverse unit
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16160	From: W. Thomas Boussum	Date: 12/24/2001
Subject: Turntables and roundhouses.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16161	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/24/2001
Subject: Christmas card
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16162	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 12/24/2001
Subject: New file uploaded to S-Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16163	From: Angelo Corridori	Date: 12/24/2001
Subject: Angelo Corridori/Poughkeepsie/IBM is out of the office.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16164	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 12/25/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1252
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16165	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 12/25/2001
Subject: Re: Franklin reverse unit
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16166	From: tomsmitty2001	Date: 12/25/2001
Subject: solenoids on dc
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16167	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/25/2001
Subject: Re: Franklin reverse unit
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16168	From: john4flyer	Date: 12/25/2001
Subject: Help choosing repro accessories........
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16169	From: Scott Holm	Date: 12/26/2001
Subject: DC Burnouts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16170	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 12/26/2001
Subject: DC Power (was LIFTOFF!)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16171	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 12/26/2001
Subject: Re: DC Power (was LIFTOFF!)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16172	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 12/26/2001
Subject: Turntable ideas
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16173	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 12/26/2001
Subject: Re: DC Power (was LIFTOFF!)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16174	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 12/26/2001
Subject: Re: DC Power (was LIFTOFF!)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16175	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 12/26/2001
Subject: Re: Turntable ideas
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16176	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 12/26/2001
Subject: Turntable Alignment
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16177	From: TCS	Date: 12/26/2001
Subject: New Decals from Oddballs Decals - N, HO, S and O scale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16178	From: Don Thompson	Date: 12/26/2001
Subject: Re: River Raisin Update
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16179	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 12/26/2001
Subject: DC Power
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16180	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 12/26/2001
Subject: More on DC power etc.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16182	From: jahoozdumm	Date: 12/26/2001
Subject: Get yer hot coils!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16183	From: Ted Larson	Date: 12/27/2001
Subject: through truss
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16184	From: lawrence Jackman	Date: 12/27/2001
Subject: Re: DC Burnouts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16185	From: WNHOLCOMB@aol.com	Date: 12/27/2001
Subject: Florida Train Shows
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16186	From: Hannon	Date: 12/27/2001
Subject: Lionel Postwar O-Gauge Reference Manual, Volume I
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16187	From: Don or Marsha Munsey, Jr	Date: 12/27/2001
Subject: AF HO Items
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16188	From: Don or Marsha Munsey, Jr	Date: 12/27/2001
Subject: On30 trucks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16189	From: TED R LARSON	Date: 12/27/2001
Subject: turntable
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16190	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 12/27/2001
Subject: Jess Bennett's tuntable
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16191	From: Alex	Date: 12/27/2001
Subject: FW: [S-Trains] DC Power
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16192	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 12/27/2001
Subject: Re: Florida Train Shows
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16193	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 12/27/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1257
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16194	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 12/27/2001
Subject: cow magnets
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16195	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/27/2001
Subject: Beware Tom R's predictions! (not really S, but list stuff!)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16196	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 12/28/2001
Subject: Frequencies: AC, DC Full Wave, DC Half Wave
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16197	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/28/2001
Subject: DC discussion
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16198	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 12/28/2001
Subject: Capacitors raise the voltage?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16199	From: Carl Tuveson	Date: 12/28/2001
Subject: And now for something completely different. Train Cam
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16200	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/28/2001
Subject: Re: And now for something completely different. Train Cam
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16201	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/28/2001
Subject: Re: switch remote
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16202	From: TED R LARSON	Date: 12/28/2001
Subject: Fw: Re: Fw: wedding cake
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16203	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 12/28/2001
Subject: Pulse width and DCC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16204	From: TED R LARSON	Date: 12/28/2001
Subject: turntable, forklift and JL
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16205	From: Scott Holm	Date: 12/28/2001
Subject: Re: DC Power
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16206	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/28/2001
Subject: Re: DC discussion
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16207	From: bassflyer	Date: 12/28/2001
Subject: Flyer in CTT....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16208	From: TED R LARSON	Date: 12/28/2001
Subject: Re: JL
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16209	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 12/28/2001
Subject: AF 24720 info
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16210	From: Gary Chidester	Date: 12/28/2001
Subject: e-Bay help?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16211	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 12/28/2001
Subject: Re: DC discussion
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16212	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 12/28/2001
Subject: Re: switch remote
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16213	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/28/2001
Subject: Re: RETRACTION! CRS strikes again! WAS: Beware Tom R's Predicitons.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16214	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/28/2001
Subject: Re: AF 24720 info
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16215	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 12/29/2001
Subject: Re: e-Bay help?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16216	From: fjg1870	Date: 12/29/2001
Subject: Re: AF 24720 info
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16217	From: Don Thompson	Date: 12/29/2001
Subject: Re: AF 24720 info
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16218	From: Carl Tuveson	Date: 12/29/2001
Subject: No train cam Sunday...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16219	From: Neimanis,V. [NCR]	Date: 12/29/2001
Subject: Turntables & Wiring
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16220	From: notcoldenough	Date: 12/29/2001
Subject: solenoids on dc / test results
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16221	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 12/29/2001
Subject: Re: AF 24720 info
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16222	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/29/2001
Subject: Re: switch remote
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16223	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 12/29/2001
Subject: AC common rail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16224	From: fjg1870	Date: 12/29/2001
Subject: Re: AF 24720 info
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16225	From: Bruce Papky	Date: 12/29/2001
Subject: Sawmill available.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16226	From: jde_can	Date: 12/29/2001
Subject: Phasing Transformers?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16227	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/29/2001
Subject: Re: Phasing Transformers?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16228	From: Scott Kubel	Date: 12/29/2001
Subject: HO Help
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16229	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/29/2001
Subject: Re: AC common rail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16230	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/29/2001
Subject: Re: HO Help
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16231	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 12/29/2001
Subject: DC common rail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16232	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 12/29/2001
Subject: Re: Phasing Transformers?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16233	From: Al Paolozzi	Date: 12/29/2001
Subject: Re: Phasing Transformers?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16234	From: Gregg Mummert	Date: 12/29/2001
Subject: FLAGS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16235	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 12/29/2001
Subject: AF tender truck rivet bushings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16236	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/29/2001
Subject: Re: AF tender truck rivet bushings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16237	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 12/29/2001
Subject: New Lionel Flyer Stuff
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16238	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 12/30/2001
Subject: Re: Phasing Transformers?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16239	From: Alex Sibbald	Date: 12/30/2001
Subject: 293 tender trucks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16240	From: notcoldenough	Date: 12/30/2001
Subject: Re: 293 tender trucks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16241	From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT	Date: 12/30/2001
Subject: Re: New Lionel Flyer Stuff
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16242	From: jde_can	Date: 12/30/2001
Subject: Re Phasing Transformers 2 ;
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16243	From: robbe_wan	Date: 12/30/2001
Subject: Re: Re Phasing Transformers 2 ;
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16244	From: rfgiardina	Date: 12/30/2001
Subject: Re: AF tender truck rivet bushings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16245	From: Michael Christensen	Date: 12/30/2001
Subject: Re: New Lionel Flyer Stuff
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16246	From: Michael Christensen	Date: 12/30/2001
Subject: Re: New Lionel Flyer Stuff
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16247	From: notcoldenough	Date: 12/30/2001
Subject: Re Phasing Transformers 2
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16248	From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT	Date: 12/30/2001
Subject: 752 seaRboard coaler
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16249	From: robbe_wan	Date: 12/30/2001
Subject: Re: New Lionel Flyer Stuff
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16250	From: HOGHEADHAT@AOL.COM	Date: 12/30/2001
Subject: hoghead hatwear
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16251	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 12/30/2001
Subject: Re: AF tender truck rivet bushings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16252	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 12/30/2001
Subject: Re: AF tender truck rivet bushings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16253	From: DoUg	Date: 12/30/2001
Subject: train shows
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16254	From: TCS	Date: 12/30/2001
Subject: If anyone was having trouble...............
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16255	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 12/30/2001
Subject: Re: AF 24720 info
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16256	From: Dan Brindell	Date: 12/30/2001
Subject: Re: train shows
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16257	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/30/2001
Subject: Re: AF tender truck rivet bushings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16258	From: The Reis's	Date: 12/30/2001
Subject: Thinning out some S helper Rollingstock
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16259	From: alsflyer	Date: 12/31/2001
Subject: S Gauge Herald repair/build
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16260	From: srgriggs	Date: 12/31/2001
Subject: Can someone post a review of the new Flyonel 752?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16261	From: SMASTER636@aol.com	Date: 12/31/2001
Subject: AF Caboose
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16262	From: TWesthelle@aol.com	Date: 12/31/2001
Subject: Touch Up paints for AF Rollingstock
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16263	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/31/2001
Subject: Re: Touch Up paints for AF Rollingstock
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16264	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 12/31/2001
Subject: Re: AF Caboose
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16265	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/31/2001
Subject: Re: AF Caboose
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16266	From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com	Date: 12/31/2001
Subject: Ouch!!! Real Virus Warning "lavalamp"
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16267	From: Scott Holm	Date: 12/31/2001
Subject: Re: Touch Up paints for AF Rollingstock
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16268	From: trzp1800	Date: 12/31/2001
Subject: Activating signal crossings and block signals
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16269	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 12/31/2001
Subject: DC common rail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16270	From: robbe_wan	Date: 12/31/2001
Subject: Re: Touch Up paints for AF Rollingstock
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16271	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 12/31/2001
Subject: PAINT
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16272	From: Bill Lane	Date: 12/31/2001
Subject: Pennsy S Models new X29 pilot model photo
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16273	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 12/31/2001
Subject: PAINT
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16274	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 12/31/2001
Subject: Homemade choo choo cam Sale Ends Today... NOT AN ADVERTISEMENT!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16275	From: bull_gator_1	Date: 12/31/2001
Subject: Paint
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16276	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 12/31/2001
Subject: Re: AF tender truck rivet bushings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16277	From: Jim Carnes	Date: 12/31/2001
Subject: Re: Paint
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16278	From: Nick and Becky Colleran	Date: 12/31/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1262
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16279	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/31/2001
Subject: Re: Paint
Group: S-Trains	Message: 16280	From: Ms. Judy Messinger	Date: 12/31/2001
Subject: HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!

---

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10916	From: Bob Werre	Date: 1/1/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: Ore Cars

> > The model that we are looking at is DM&IR (perhaps class U18) with a > cast steel underframe. This will make it heavy enough to track well > and its design looks very similar to the design the Great Northern, > C&NW, Milwaukee, SOO, NP, CN and B&LE had. I am asking that the > wooden side extenders that were added when the cars went into taconite > service be made as a separate piece so the modeler could add them if > desired. I would also like to see a "load" done and couplers > available to allow close coupling. Ken Put me down for my share of Milwaukee lettered ore cars. Trouble with this is the Milwaukee Rd fans don't have a horizonal-ribbed caboose! Bob

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10917	From: Peck	Date: 1/1/2001
Subject: Re: smoke wicks

<There has been a great deal of talk on this list regarding dried up smoke wicks and such. This e-Bay item is therefore rather extraordinary in that it offers a dozen Gilbert factory repair kits. Is anyone interested in buying them up and actually using them (instead of collecting them)? Take a look and let me know if you think it's worth buying and distributing to the group. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=530915929 CZ > I apologize if anyone else has already pointed this out......been away for a week, and I'm just starting to go through the S-Trains mail that I missed! I sure hope no one "got took" on this! I SERIOUSLY doubt these are original Gilbert wicks! (a) they are too white. I have many real unused originals, and the fiber Gilbert used is far more yellow! (b) I've never seen any Gilbert instructions on yellow paper! (c ) Zip-Lock bags in the 50s (or even the 60s)???????? I don't think so! This looks like some parts dealer's display of wick replacements. 12 x $2 each (or less) = $24.....not $84+ !!! Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10918	From: michael prell	Date: 1/1/2001
Subject: Man in search of engine

To the gentleman interested in obtaining an engine for his 50's Flyer set, you might find what you need at the following address. www.americanflyertrains.com/Engines/steam/body-steam.html Good luck! ===== Being angry is the same as holding a hot coal in the palm of your hand. You want to hold on to it in order to throw it at another, but only hurt yourself in doing so. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10919	From: Rick {bAss-flyer} Evans	Date: 1/1/2001
Subject: Re: a.f. flatcar i.d. assistance

((((johnbraker@w... wrote: Hi all, New to group and can use a little help id'ing an American Flyer Flatcar I recently acquired. I think it's a 628.It has a gray plastic chassis,with wooden log load.Stamped metal trucks with links couplers without the weights. Says C&NWRY 42597 on the side of the flatcar. Or can this be a 627. Would appreciate any help anyone can offer.)))) Hi John, First off,...welcome aboard!!! A 627 has a girder load. A 628 would be what you described,..from 1946-53. According to Greenberg, plastic 628's were only made in '46. Show's what I know,...I would have thought the die-cast would have been from the earlier years! Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10920	From: Robert Wight	Date: 1/1/2001
Subject: Re: Paul's mini cam shots

Paul; Cool cam shots. It looks so real. I have a suggestion for (fun) and giggles. You ought to do a little train scene with cars and people and stuff. Do a little adventure. Like on the stick man web sight. Maybe a western train robbery scene would be fun. Allso can you put that camera inside the animated station car? What are those people doing in there? How about a jpeg of the train running through a car on the track? Allso Paul. Thank You for the paper garage that you have on your web page. Looks great on my layout. Just love it. Happy Railroading Bob Wight --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10921	From: Rick {bAss-flyer} Evans	Date: 1/1/2001
Subject: First post of 2001.....

And Bob Werre wins the honors of being the FIRST poster in S-Trains in 2001!!!!!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10922	From: Alan C Udy	Date: 1/1/2001
Subject: Track Terminal Arcing

Getting caught up - From Christmas day, the following was asked: "I noticed some arcing under one of the track terminals, felt the terminal and it was quite hot! Left a small burnt spot on the white sheet. (where's that Fire Dept. number again?) Replaced it with another terminal, no problems now. What would cause this to happen?? One piece felt a little loose on the terminal, but couldn't see anything wrong." I too noticed this same phenomena. The arcing produced a white light between the rail and the contact. It also produced heat. I found it before the rug was singed. What causes it is a dirty, loose connection. I took out my Dremmel wire brush and cleaned both the bottom and side of the rails and the insides of the track terminal contacts, and bent the outside contact toward the track. That eliminated the problem. I imagine some voltage drop was there too. Al;an Udy, RMHRS Idaho Falls, ID ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10923	From: Mark Kiner	Date: 1/1/2001
Subject: New list member and a question

Hi, I joined the S-train list this weekend and this is my first post. I have a question about the value of items. I have a copy of the 2000 Greenberg book, but it seems items always go much higher on e-bay. I live in Oklahoma and there are not many people intersted in S- trains, American Flyer or otherwise. Is E-bay about the only option for picking up items for someone in a remote area where there are no S-train shows? I would appreciate any enlightenment. Mark P.S. I am an R/C helicopter pilot which is the reason for my Negative Pitch e-mail address.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10924	From: Mark Kiner	Date: 1/1/2001
Subject: Northern

I suppose the dream of all American Flyer fanatics is to have a Northern 080. I had an opportunity to buy a pretty nice 336 about this time last year for around $450.00. At the time I didn't have the 450 and I felt that was too high. Looking back this seems like it might have been a better deal than I thought. How tough is it do come up with a KC Northern? What should one expect to pay for a nice one? I plan to run it so I don't want a MIB collector piece, but I don't want a ragged one either. I would really like to get one from 58/59 which was the year I got my first flyer set. I guess that would mean a 21139. What should I expect to pay? Does anyone have a lead? Mark

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10925	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 1/1/2001
Subject: AVI Video File from Box Car Cam!

I used my Video capture card on my PC to give you guys a sample of my Box Car Cam. I just uploaded a 4Meg movie shot from the Box Car Cam. I think you will like it. (Be patient if you have a slow connection, it took me 27 minutes to upload it) http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/loco_cam/Box_Cam3.html (download, use "Save File" then run it from your hard drive.) Use Windows Media player (or some other viewer) to view this type of file. -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://S-Trains.com (alt e-mail PaulYorke@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10926	From: Rick {bAss-flyer} Evans	Date: 1/1/2001
Subject: Re: New list member and a question

, "Mark Kiner" :((( Hi, I joined the S-train list this weekend and this is my first post. I have a question about the value of items. I have a copy of the 2000 Greenberg book, but it seems items always go much higher on e-bay. I live in Oklahoma and there are not many people intersted in S- trains, American Flyer or otherwise. Is E-bay about the only option for picking up items for someone in a remote area where there are no S-train shows? I would appreciate any enlightenment.))) Hi Mark....Welcome aboard!! Yes it is true,..prices can be higher on ebay due to the bidding, some bidding wars happen! I myself, have gotten what I think to be good deals off of ebay,...lower than "Book" price, some pretty close to "Book" price. There are quite a few dealers out there selling Flyer, a few being on this list. I believe Paul Yorke's web-site should help you out there, and dealers on this list might contact you after they read your post. Prices can go either way,...Higher or lower, and a price guide should be used as a "Guide",...nothing is carved in stone!! Many people might pay $100 for a $20 piece of rolling stock on ebay, who knows why,...they really wanted it?..got caught up in a bidding frenzy?...Money is no object?...didn't know the value?? Anyway,...there are great bunch of people here,...always willin' to give their two cents worth on any topic. Enjoy the list. Rick. "Take a ride on the "S" side!!"

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10927	From: Ktrdd@AOL.com	Date: 1/1/2001
Subject: Re: Track Terminal Arcing

Happy New Year!!----snow removal a "really" big operation here last 2 weeks--Reduced time for trains or any other hobby--a bummer. In looking at buildings locally, there is so much ice and ice dams forming on roofs--that there are going to be unhappy people with water problems in the weeks ahead?: Some thin gauge aluminum gutters are already peeling over and this is only New Year!!! (long winter ahead). Never had a lot of faith in Flyer track connectors. They are ackward. The snap tab end --can make contact with sintered truck frames passing over it causing a momentary short. In trying to bend it to clear rolling stock---only makes it weaker in holding it tight on the track. Can't be sure if this is a problem on all of them, but Flyer certainly had a bad run on some of these in my opinion, or am I missing something here? ...Get a good soldering iron and solder wires directly to the track. I believe the best place on Flyer track is the bottom of the rail (and it must be filed). Make sure you file the area clean (bright) with a hobby file and/or small flat file and follow soldering "rules" seen here---no more contact problems. "Connectors" are for temporary layouts--at least that's what they taught me over the years. Winter---please back-off for a few weeks--need a rest--we need a January thaw? John R

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10928	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/1/2001
Subject: Re: Northern

Mark, You will find a 336 or 335 or even 332 much easier than the 5-digit one, and much cheaper too! Depends on location and condition, there are some good dealers on Paul's site who might have something to fit your needs. While I do some eBaying, in general, eBay is a seller's market. Good place to sell stuff, seldom a great place to find bargins. You may find, after you get one, that the Northern really is too much loco for most layouts, the Hudson is much better! The Northern is still a really impressive loco, but needs wider curves than standard to operate well. I'll probably get some flack for that statement! I'm just remembering my disapointment after years of wanting one, and finally finding one (you don't want to know what I paid, but then again that was a LOOONG time ago) and finding that my tunnels needed to be wider, it bent track on AF trestles, and really didn't like to go through the S curves in my yard tracks (actually switches)--oh, and until I regauged the wheels, it threw switches open. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10929	From: erierailroad@aol.com	Date: 1/1/2001
Subject: AF WHEEL GAUGE

Hello, I was wondering if someone could tell me what is the correct wheel gauge on American Flyer locos and cars? Thanks in Advance, Jack

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10930	From: Rick {bAss-flyer} Evans	Date: 1/1/2001
Subject: TV static from my 282.......

In response to an earlier question by me about static on the TV set by my 282 more then other locos,..Gerald Dodds made the following comment,...""TV static is caused by arcing from wheels or pickup's."" When playing back my video I had taped of two trains circling the Christmas tree,... my 282 comes by close to the camera, and you can hear a whinnning interference on the video tape! Which brings me back to somethin' about the motor causing static and interference. Whatta ya think??? Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10931	From: HOGHEADHAT@AOL.COM	Date: 1/1/2001
Subject: unsubscribe

Please unsubscribe me from list, thanks

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10932	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 1/1/2001
Subject: S-Video

Just a reminder for the forgetful ones. There are still 23 of you out there that have ordered videos from me whose checks have not shown up yet. One person ordered two reserved on 11/30 but not received yet. As stated earlier I will free up the ones not paid for soon. I suppose the Christmas and New Yr. holidays have slowed up the mail so I will extend the date to the 10th. Thanks to all of you that bought them. I just got back from Reno for the new yrs. celebrations and there were four more orders in my email. That means that 125 copies of this will be floating around out there soon... Happy New Yr. to all....Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10933	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 1/1/2001
Subject: S-Video

Have watched my copy of Steve's video four times now. Wow! My only complaint is that they were so short. Could have sat through at least six more hours. Sure am envious of those fantastic personal layouts. Also really enjoyed seeing the modular type layout being assembled at the show. If any of you haven't gotten one of the videos, you really need to order it. Can't wait till the next one comes out. Thanks for the effort Steve. Roger Petrella Franktown, CO

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10934	From: Robert Wight	Date: 1/2/2001
Subject: Paul's short movie

Paul; Viewed your movie. It was way too cool. It was very clear and smooth for me. Was that a derelict older collectors car i spied in the weeds? You ought to go down to the tracks some weekend and drag that thing ought'a there and make it a project car. Happy Railroading Bob Wight --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10935	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 1/2/2001
Subject: Re: New list member and a question

In a message dated 1/1/01 4:42:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, negative_pitch@... writes: << I have a copy of the 2000 Greenberg book, but it seems items always go much higher on e-bay. >> Dear Mark: There are a number of factors to consider in how toy train pricing may play out, and these include: geography, excitement pressures in auction situations, serendipity between buyers and sellers, what has been reissued or reproduced, fashion, etc. There are no absolutes. The Greenberg guide has not been thoroughly updated in ages -- only the cover changes from year to year. If I may offer an alternative, the new TM Books AF guide may prove to be much more useful to you (IMHO :-)) !). RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10936	From: JAMES SLEETH	Date: 1/2/2001
Subject: Tortoise switch machines

I am about to order some Americal Model Switches. Should I consider using Tortosie motors if they work with AM switches. Thanks Jim Sleeth

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10937	From: Al	Date: 1/2/2001
Subject: Re: Lou Baldi email

Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 05:42:08 -0000 From: loubaldi@... Subject: News Paper Article I have fixed the link address for Lou: http://www.sunspot.net/content/archive/story?section=archive&pagename=story&storyid=1150520218489 Also a copy of the story is here attached: Al Gifts that chug and toot Fun: Toy trains are tootling into the hearts of young and old alike. By TaNoah Morgan Sun Staff Originally published Dec 27 2000 In many American homes, it is no surprise to find a train chugging and puffing under the tree on Christmas morning. But more often these days, the train is not for junior, it's for dad. Toy trains are growing more popular among baby boomers who remember having the model trains in their youths, and one local toy-train company is capitalizing on the trend. Mike's Train House, or MTH Trains, has been slowly growing its line of old-fashioned, die-cast locomotives and highly detailed cargo trains to cater to the aging boomers and to stiffen competition with the nation's best-known toy-train maker, Lionel. Mike Wolf, owner and founder of MTH Trains, said he's looking forward to taking Lionel's place in the market. "The market for a train set under the tree is huge - it's an American tradition," said Wolf, sitting in his office in Columbia surrounded by train models and framed Dan Marino jerseys. "I believe the majority of people don't know that trains are still made like this." Lionel became the largest toy-train manufacturer in the world in 1953, with $32.9 million in train sales, according to Ron Hollander, author of "All Aboard! The Story of Joshua Lionel Cowen & His Lionel Train Company." The trains were hefty, shiny and heavily detailed with rivets, handrails and stairways. They puffed smoke, hauled cargo and tugged at the imaginations of millions of children and their fathers. In the 1960s, after the company left family hands, a series of poor managers almost ran the toy-train company out of business. Children of the television generation lost interest in trains. Lionel began using plastic instead of metal, and the company barely managed to stay afloat, according to industry experts. Today, the toy-train industry is being revived by the very lads who wanted to see a whistle-blowing train set underneath the tree nearly 50 years ago. It's an industry standard that the average toy-train hobbyist is a 52-year-old man - a baby boomer with lots of disposable income and memories to re-create, willing to spend cash on trains that not only chug and puff, but also play music, announce rail line stops in local accents and can be operated by remote control. Even Microsoft Corp. is hoping to capitalize on the renewed interest in trains. In the spring, the technology giant will launch its Train Simulator, a computer game in which players operate high-speed trains. "It's growing, definitely," said Walter C. Throne, president of the National Retail Hobby Stores Association, of the toy-train industry. "Our sales have been going up every year in trains. They're making better product, there's more of it, and they have better packaging." While manufacturers are eager to cling to the quality and attention to detail of old, toy trains are moving into a more technologically advanced age, what with CD-quality recordings coming out of train speakers and remotes that can operate up to 99 trains at once. "We keep having more and more train exhibitors of every gauge showing their new goods at the show every year," said Darwin P. Bromley, assistant executive director of the Radio Control Hobby Trade Association, which every year plays host to the International Model & Hobby Expo in Chicago, the largest trade show for hobbyists. "I see in the store an availability of new products, a competitive environment that shows a really vital hobby industry," he said. "You only get these things happening on the shelves if you get good sales." And both Lionel and MTH, the two privately held companies that own a lion's share of the original or O-gauge segment of the market, are reporting strong growth. Lionel executives have said they expect 15 percent sales growth this year and next. Wolf said he expects $57 million in sales, compared with $52 million last year and $40 million in 1998. Industry surveys estimate the model train market in the United States at $312 million to $1 billion a year. Of that, O-gauge trains make up about 12 percent. Although Lionel, which is celebrating its 100th anniversary this year, has rolled out 24 new models of locomotives in two years, Wolf has broadened the market in the past seven years alone with 62 new steam engines and 77 locomotives. He sells only to hobby shops and selected Sears, Roebuck and Co. stores. Starter train sets are available online at www.mthtrains.com. "The next three years is the biggest part [of the baby-boom generation], and we're in the best place," Wolf said. In addition to making new trains, MTH has focused on improving the trains with technology. Its top-of-the-line train models, which reproduce actual trains at a quarter-inch to foot scale and sell for $400 to $1,400, also coordinate the chug of the wheels and the puffs of smoke to simulate those of the real trains. With new microchips that play back music and voices, Wolf said, he wants to sell trains to jewelry stores and other shops for use as a marketing tool. The trains would run in shop windows, touting the virtues of the product displayed in the cargo beds. Wolf is also investing in the future of model trains with every $199 starter kit he sells, and he hopes to snag a youngster's imagination and future dollars. He expects to have sold 35,000 from February 2000 through the end of next month, up from 20,000 sold the previous 12 months. New models roll out in February. "A train under every Christmas tree," Wolf said. "That's my goal."

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10938	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 1/2/2001
Subject: Nichrome wire

Does anyone know of a source to obtain a small spool of #40 nichrome wire? Roger Petrella Franktown, CO

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10939	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 1/2/2001
Subject: Tortoise switch machines

JAMES SLEETH asked about Tortosie motors with AM switches. I don't know about AM switches but I have recently installed tortoises on some Old Pullman and Tomalco switches and fixing after a few contact problems, I can report that they work well. cheers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10940	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 1/2/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 863

Rick(BAssFlyer)Evans: Motor static, You are right, when the brush moves from one commentator plate to the next (making the armature turn,) it causes a spark, connecting a small capacitor across the brushes may help reduce the noise ( but it will not reduce the spark significantly ). A radio transmitter is similar, sending out AC current at a higher frequency, RF (radio frequency). Jerry 77-11644 ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10941	From: Peck	Date: 1/2/2001
Subject: Re: AF wheel gauging

<I was wondering if someone could tell me what is the correct wheel gauge on American Flyer locos and cars? > When I do repairs or overhauls, I always use a micrometer and I gauge the wheels to 0.85 to the outer edges of the flanges (or the inner edges of the treads). Have never experienced problems with that measurement. Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10942	From: Wayne and Alice Beachy	Date: 1/2/2001
Subject: Fw: Comments from Feedback Form

RE: Comments from Feedback FormFor those not familiar, Code 3 is the company that puts out the great 1/64th Fire Trucks, Ambulances, Firehouses etc. I wrote them yesterday and asked if they ever planned to produce 1/64th firefighters to go with the fire equipment they produce. Below is their reply. Looks good. Wayne Beachy Atlantic Coast S Gaugers Virginia Central Division Hi Beachy, We are working on 1/64 figures and hope to have them out soon. More information will be posted on our site as it becomes available. Best regards, Margaret Franco [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10943	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 1/2/2001
Subject: City of Detroit Trolley

Thanks to Jerry Poniatowski, for taking the time to send me some text and pictures. http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/trolley/trolley.html -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://S-Trains.com (alt e-mail PaulYorke@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10944	From: judy messinger	Date: 1/2/2001
Subject: Front Trucks-Another Problem!

I've had some ongoing troubles with front trucks on my steam locos derailing. I wrote in to the S-List, awhile back, and got some good advice on probable causes and solutions. Just today, I discovered something new to me that, probably, many of you already know but I thought I would pass it along in hopes it might be of help to someone. I have a couple 290's and a 293. One of the 290's is from my childhood Flyer train set, and it and the cars are original. The other 290 and the 293 are locos that I have "pieced" together from spare parts. I tried to keep them as original as possible but since they are "runners" and not worth much as "collectables", I wasn't too concerned about some details. I've had trouble with these two (rebuilt) locos derailing. They proved to be especially problematic on the small oval around the Christmas tree. While lying on the floor and setting the engines on the track, I noticed that the front drive wheels on the engines were not making contact with the rails. The wheels rested 1/16", or slightly more, above the rails. I had used "stamped" tin truck assemblies from Atlantics on these two engines. They were all I had. The 290 with the, original, die cast truck assembly caused no problem. Conclusion: Stamped trucks don't work worth a hoot on these type (Pacific) locomotives. The axels set lower on the stamped assemblies and cause the chassis to ride atop of it preventing the front drivers from making contact with the track. Since I didn't have any cast truck assemblies, I made similar ones out of brass stock. The locomotives run fine now. Best wishes to all for the New Year. Joe Messinger _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10945	From: Scott Brown	Date: 1/2/2001
Subject: Re: Video

I too ordered Steve's video and have watched it 3 times so far. It is really great !! I enjoyed watching the club assemble their layout. Gave me some ideas for our club layout. Thanks for the hard work Steve and let me know when you make another one. Scott Brown Atlantic Coast S Gaugers Washington & Old Dominion Division

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10946	From: Scott Brown	Date: 1/2/2001
Subject: Greenberg Show

This past weekend the Atlantic Coast S Gaugers - Washington & Old Dominion Division had their layout at the Greenberg Train Show in Chantilly, Virginia. We ran a 22' by 18' layout which was viewed by over 5,000 people during the weekend. We had a great time talking S gauge with lots of people. 3 new members filled out applications including a 12 year old boy and his dad. The son is the one with the American Flyer trains and wants his dad to participate with him. Including my sons (10 and 15) that will give us 3 young people in the club. 3 more people took applications home with them. We also had a good time talking and bargaining with the vendors : John and Robin Vanacore, Frankie Merson, and Jim Patterson. I saw several "O" gauge vendors selling S Helper engines too. If anyone lives in the Northern Virginia / DC / Maryland area and would like more information on our club you can find us at http://sgauge.homestead.com/ACSGindex.html You will also find info on the Virginia Central and Carolinas Divisions there too. Scott Brown Atlantic Coast S Gaugers Washington & Old Dominion Division

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10947	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/2/2001
Subject: Re: Tortoise switch machines

I use some AM switches with AM switch machines attached and am satisfied with the results. It looks like an HO Atlas switch motor. If you want to use the Tortoise because the AM appearance bothers you then go ahead. If you don't mind the appearance of the AM switch machines use them- they save a lot of installation work. Mine are on ballasted trackwork with adjacent dwarf signals operated by an Atlas snap relay, and the appearance is "adequate". I believe the Tortoise (we use some on some club modules but have not finished wiring yet) has contacts for a signal and thus avoids the need for the separate snap relay. In the end it comes down to do you want a simpler surface mount or more elegant under the table installation. JAMES SLEETH wrote: > > I am about to order some Americal Model Switches. Should I consider > using Tortosie motors if they work with AM switches. Thanks Jim > Sleeth > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10948	From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade	Date: 1/2/2001
Subject: Loco Project Update

Happy New Year! Heard from our builder that the long-overdue wheels are on the way to him, and #41 kits will be shipped shortly from New Zealand! #42 and #43 will be right behind it. Also put a couple of new photos of the beast on the web site. New Photo of #41...... http://www.btsrr.com/bts6101.htm Photo of the #41 2-8-0 beside the #6 0-6-0 - #41 is a big sucker! http://www.btsrr.com/btsteam.htm ----------------------------------------------------------------- We received the patterns for the BL2 project today. We are going over them to make sure all is well before sending them off to the caster. Looking very good so far! Sadly, white plastic does not photograph well, but you can get the idea from the shots on the web page. Photos of the BL patterns can be found from here.... http://www.btsrr.com/btsdiesl.htm And when the pattern maker left our office, he was thinking about FM Erie-builts! Thanks for your support of our projects! All for now! Bill -- =============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10949	From: Tom Young	Date: 1/2/2001
Subject: Nichrome wire

Roger, Tom Barker offers wire to those who need it. Directions at his website...http://www.rit.edu/~tbbeqa/GAF.html. Or there are several sources as a result of a search....http://www.hotbot.lycos.com/?search=1&MT=nichrome+wire. Hope this helps, Tom....

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10950	From: Scott Holm	Date: 1/2/2001
Subject: Re: Front Trucks-Another Problem!

--- Joe Messinger <jmessinger@...> wrote: > I noticed that the front drive wheels on the engines were not making contact with the rails. This was a problem with my 322 Hudson that had no traction and would just spin it's wheels. I removed the spring and washer that were there and filed down the pilot so the truck can rise further up and thus allow the drive wheels to sit completely on the track. It can actually pull a few cars now. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10951	From: Scott Holm	Date: 1/2/2001
Subject: Solvents

One problem that I've seen with spraying solvents such as tuner cleaner, LPS-1, Caig's Deoxit D5 or R5 power booster, into the engine is that it will often remove the lubrication from the axle bearings which then causes the engine to run rough and hot. One should be careful to re-lubricate the engine after using a solvent, by putting drops of oil on the axle bearings and maybe even new grease on the gears. It's amazing how much a little oil can do to make these engines run better. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10952	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 1/2/2001
Subject: Steam loco wear

I think that worn or well used locos ride slightly lower on the rails than they were supposed to, since wear in the axle holes tends to be in the upward direction. This can be the cause of some of the pilot truck problems that have been discussed here recently. It can also affect the behavior of 4 wheel trailing trucks. The low sitting chassis pushes down on the front of the trailing truck and raises its rear wheelset upwards. This manifests itself mostly when the loco is run in reverse. The chassis can be filed down where the trailing truck is attached, just as Scott filed down the pilot of his 322 to free the pilot truck. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10953	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 1/2/2001
Subject: WWW.trainweb.org

Is anyone else having trouble with website hosted by www.trainweb.org ? Someone said they could not get to my site so I tried my site and can't get in, then I tried www.trainweb.org, opened first page which said click here to enter. when I clicked it also said unable to load page try reload. I did and still nothing. What might be the problem. Me or Them? Paul, ant ideas? Chris Burger(The Nut) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10954	From: John Simkovich	Date: 1/3/2001
Subject: www.trainweb.org

I did try just to see if I could get in to it. It is possible that the server was down, however it is up and running now. Try again. I got right in. John [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10955	From: gpmlg@aol.com	Date: 1/3/2001
Subject: unsubscribe

Please unsubscribe me from list, will be back in 2 mounts, thanks [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10956	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 1/3/2001
Subject: Motors

- Greeting`S' - Every so often another person is puzzled by poor motor performance in a locomotive. The story is some variation on "it runs slowly, it stops, it hums, etc." and help is sought. Pul-eze put an ammeter in series with the track circuit so that you will know what is being powered. Here are a few ball-park figures for reference. Corrections are welcome. Smoke unit heater 0.3 A Headlight 0.25 A Reverse unit coil 0.2 A Motor (smooth-running) 1.5 A (for steam models) Motor (smooth running) 2.0 A (for 2-motor Diesel) A loco drawing 0.5 to 0,8 A has the reverse unit in neutral, worn fingers on the reverse drum, or stuck brushes most likely. One drawing >3.0 A has a tough-turning mechanism or damaged armature or field. But, you have to know the current first. Hence the need for an ammeter. Do not connect the ammeter across the track terminals unless you want a duel to the death between the transformer and the ammeter. Put the ammeter in series by cutting the wire from the variable voltage post and connecting the new ends to the meter. Of course, choose an AC ammeter if your system runs on AC. A meter with full-scale between 5 and 10 A is about right. If you insist on leaving the meter pegged against the right-hand stop because of a short circuit, you should remember where you bought the meter so that you can go get another. Cheer`S' and Happy New Year Rhett George

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10957	From: WNHOLCOMB@aol.com	Date: 1/3/2001
Subject: Re: Vacation

I'll be in the Tampa/St Pete/Sarasota area from mid January to mid February. Anyone know of any train shows/displays/shops in these areas ? Thanks Neil Holcomb

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10958	From: Bob Sylsbury	Date: 1/3/2001
Subject: Wide Radius ?

This question was probably asked before put here goes.Why does American Flyer track need to have such a wide radius for turns? O- Gauge track is larger and takes up less of a radius on turns.I think someone said that you only need 8 sections of track to complete a 180 turn.A.F. track need I think 12? Please post or e-mail me answer.Thanks as always...........Bob

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10959	From: John M	Date: 1/3/2001
Subject: Re: Wide Radius ?

American Flyer Locos and Cars are closer to scale length when compared to stubby O27 Lionel cars. Longer cars require broader/smoother curves (larger radius). So AF curves allow for these better looking cars. Yes a circle in AF is 12 pieces and 8 pieces in Lionel O27. 12 gives you more options for partial curves so this is probably an advantage. -John --- In S-Trains@egroups.com, "Bob Sylsbury" <yazfacts@a...> wrote: > This question was probably asked before put here goes.Why does > American Flyer track need to have such a wide radius for turns? O- > Gauge track is larger and takes up less of a radius on turns.I think > someone said that you only need 8 sections of track to complete a 180 > turn.A.F. track need I think 12? Please post or e-mail me > answer.Thanks as always...........Bob

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10960	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 1/3/2001
Subject: Re: Motors

Rhett Wrote: "Pul-eze put an ammeter in series with the track circuit so that you will know what is being powered.  Here are a few ball-park figures for reference." OK ,OK, I'll do this if you tell me how to set my meter settings and where to place the probes on the meter to figure this out. When I was having problems with my K 325 everyone was saying to check the face of the armature. Of course, I did not know how to do this and really did not want to ask the simple question of how. Is there some kind of primer on how to use a meter to diagnose toy trains? If there is , I will get it. If not why doesn't someone on the list attempt to write one. sign me, willing to learn new tricks nut! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10961	From: Scott Holm	Date: 1/3/2001
Subject: Ammeters

--- "Rhett T. George" <rtg@...> wrote: > > Pul-eze put an ammeter in series with the track circuit so that you will know what is being powered. I would venture to guess that very few people have an ammeter at all and those who do probably don't have ones that can handle the load that's needed for trains. Mine will only handle .1 amp and anything more will blow it's fuse. Tom Barker had a suggestion in his book about using a 1 ohm wire wound resistor placed in series with the track load and then use an AC VOLTMETER to measure the voltage across the two leads of the resistor while the train is running. The Volts divided by the OHMS Resistance which is 1, is the current in AMPs, so the AMPs is always equal to the Volts reading. A reading of 3.0 volts would be equal to 3 AMPS. He cautioned not running too long like this since the resistor heats up fast and will then produce inaccurate results. To place the resistor in series with the engine, detach from the variable post of the transformer, the wire(s) leading to the track being used and attach to one lead of the resistor, and connect the other lead of the resistor to the variable post of the transformer. This will force all the current through the resistor. Then you connect the test leads of the voltmeter (Make sure you have your multimeter set to AC volts!) to each lead of the resistor. Start the train and take a reading as quickly as possible. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10962	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 1/3/2001
Subject: Another MTHY Delay

By now, I am sure that this comes as a surprise to no one. Today, MTH slipped the delivery date to dealers for the Coal Loader one month to February 15th. Stay tuned for further developments. Joe ===== Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,100 part lines American Models ########################## S-Helper Service Official Licensed Dealer for Gilbert Reproductions joestrainrepair@... Master Charge/Visa __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10963	From: Rick {bAss-flyer} Evans	Date: 1/3/2001
Subject: The S-Trains list grows......

We are now up to 593 members!! Maybe we can break 600 this month!! Rick (the number checker) Evans

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10964	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 1/3/2001
Subject: (no subject)

- Greeting`S' - Many thanks to Cbtrainnut for reading my commentary and asking some good questions regarding the use of an ammeter. Whether one has an ammeter to keep in the track circuit all the time or uses the multimeter for this purpose, the point of connection remains the same. Here it is in ASCII schematic form. ________________ Track | | | | | |__ | | | | 15 V Accessory | | | | | | | Transformer |____________________o AC o________o| |o__ | | 7-15 V to Track ammeter | | 1 | | | | | | |____________________________________________| | | Base |________________| If one uses a permanently-connected ammeter, the "o" on either side of "AC" represents the terminals on the meter. If you are using a multi-purpose meter which does not remain in the circuit, remove the wire shown between the 7-15 V post and the left-side track connection. Put the two ammeter probes where the wire was, i.e., one probe on the transformer 7-15 V post and the other on the left-side track terminal. Set the meter to read somewhere in the 5 A to 10 A AC range. Then, operate the loco. There are clamp-on ammeters which have a magnetic system that can be opened like jaws of pliers and put around a wire, in this case the same wire already mentioned. Very handy instrument. It couples the current in the wire to the indicator by means of the magnetic field which encircles the wire when current flows and which is proportional to the current. It is good not to have to cut a wire in service, especially if it is on a 120 V or maybe a 600 V circuit. My clamp-on ammeter from RadShack has a 6 A setting, very useful around the layout. While on the topic of meters, the DC meter for measuring ohms is handy when the loco or accessory is unpowered. Ohms represent resistance to the flow of current. Potential difference or voltage is the source of energy needed to push current thru the resistance. To get 1 A to flow thru a low-valued resistor, a low voltage is needed. If the value of resistance is high, then a high voltage is needed. The ohmmeter has the necessary goodies to perform these measurements self-contained (but battery may not be included). When using the ohmmeter, no other voltages are applied. Otherwise the meter won't know what is going on if it is trying to push current one way and some other electrical source is trying to push in the opposite direction. For items like an armature taken out of the motor, the ohmmeter is useful when it comes to measuring coil resistance. The probes are put on adjacent commutator segments or bars. The meter reading is noted and the two probes are moved to the next adjacent pair of segments. Since the AF commutator has only 3 segments, you will always measure adjacent segments or bars. [Segments on flat, radial commutators and bars on cylindrical commutators.] The several readings should be the same (maybe 1.3 to 1.5 ohms). Any questions? Please let me know. Cheer`S' and Happy New Year. Rhett

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10965	From: Bill Rigsby	Date: 1/3/2001
Subject: Baggage Cars

Just sent Ron Bashista of Americn Models an email about Baggage Cars, or rather there lack of. In the latest S Gaugian was an anouncement for support of making the new Budd Cars in full lentgh in scale. The message to Ron was, that in both of his Passenger Car lines one may order additional Coaches, but not Baggage Cars. My question to all of you out there is; Would you purchase additional Baggage Car if available, or in lieu of an Observation Car in a set, for such things as Mail Trains or to make additional Head End Units like the Protypes ran? Please respond with any comments on this page. Next on the list is the issue of the non-availability of 50' REA Reefers (in other than Brass).

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10966	From: busyboy	Date: 1/3/2001
Subject: Re: AF wheel gauging

Doug Peck wrote: >When I do repairs or overhauls, I always use a micrometer and I gauge the >wheels to 0.85 to the outer edges of the flanges. Doug: That works out to 4 feet, 6.4 inches, or 2.1 scale inches less than the prototype. The 4 foot, 8.5 inches of the 1:1 world actually scales to .8828125, or .88 + 1/4 or so. Is this a more accurate measurement which will work even better or is .85 the accepted trade off size for ease in work and measuring. What do the Proto64 boys use? Chris Zizzo PLEASE TAKE NOTE: I have a new e-mail address. It is busyboy@... Note there is NO hyphen between "busy" and "boy" and the service has changed. Please update your address books. My old address busy-boy@... will expire on January 15, 2001 Until that date, I will receive mail addressed either way. Thanks, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10967	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/3/2001
Subject: Re: Wide Radius ?

The answer is that you are referring to O gauge tinplate. When Lionel made scale trains like the Hudson you will notice they used O72 track, which meant it had a 36" radius or 72" diameter. Full scale 2 rail O uses even larger radii(anyone have the info?). Most somewhat larger O gauge engines in 3 rail today use at least 042 which is 42" dia. and thus close to Flyer. Gilbert used more scale like proportions and did not foreshorten locomotives as Lionel did, hence the need for larger radius for full scale wheelbases on Flyer. Bob Sylsbury wrote: > > This question was probably asked before put here goes.Why does > American Flyer track need to have such a wide radius for turns? O- > Gauge track is larger and takes up less of a radius on turns.I think > someone said that you only need 8 sections of track to complete a 180 > turn.A.F. track need I think 12? Please post or e-mail me > answer.Thanks as always...........Bob > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10968	From: Peck	Date: 1/3/2001
Subject: Re: AF wheel gauging

<What do the Proto64 boys use? > I have no idea. But with Flyer, I find that anything greater than .85 doesn't allow enough "play" between the rails and causes more frequent derailments....esp with engines. Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10969	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 1/3/2001
Subject: Wide Radius

Look at this months S-Gaugian page 41 this may help Mike S

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10970	From: loubaldi@aol.com	Date: 1/3/2001
Subject: Re: AF WHEEL GAUGE

--- In S-Trains@egroups.com, erierailroad@a... wrote: > Hello, > > I was wondering if someone could tell me what is the correct wheel gauge on > American Flyer locos and cars? > > Thanks in Advance, > Jack Jack, Wheel back to back gauge should be between .725 to .735" - I believe this is the correct gauge for American Flyer hi rail wheels. Lou

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10971	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 1/3/2001
Subject: Re: (unknown)

Thanks for the explanation of the multi meter use. Hopefully I can use this to further my education on fixin' flyer trains.. It's people like you on this list that make it a fun place to spend some time. As of now, Dayton has no s-gauge hobby stores, so when I get to open one up myself, I will have some knowledge to help any customers that come in with questions and broken trains.Thanks again for sharing the knowledge. I really do think I'm learning this stuff. Chris(the Nut) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10972	From: Eugene Steffan	Date: 1/4/2001
Subject: [Fwd: [S-Trains] Re: Vacation]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10973	From: Scott Holm	Date: 1/4/2001
Subject: Micro-Mark

I found a great place for getting tools and other equipment for use in model railroading. It's called Micro-Mark and they have a web site: http://www.micromark.com where they have online ordering and you can also order a free printed catalog. My order arrived complete within just a few days. I thought this list would be interested because they have many products that have been mentioned before, such as; Liquid electrical tape, squadron green putty, Wahl clipper oil, pounce wheels, silver solder, rotary tool bits, ...etc. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10974	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 1/4/2001
Subject: Multimeters

Today's postings about measuring currents suggested that a comment or two about meters might be in order. While I'm not an electrician or electrical engineer, I have a multimeter and find it a very useful tool. I would encourage anyone who is playing with electric trains to pick one up. Multimeters combine several measuring functions in one device. They let you measure AC voltage, DC voltage, resistance (ohms), and current (amps). I had an analog multimeter (with a needle and dial) for many years, and when that broke I got a digital model a few years ago. I really like the digital version for the accuracy with which you can read things. You can find analog multimeters starting probably around $10 and digital ones for something more than that (I think I paid about $50 a few years ago). Radio Shack, Sears, auto stores, electrical supply houses, and probably many more stores sell them. I tend to watch Radio Shack for things like this because they're a frequent sale item at Radio Shack and you can pick them up for 20% or so off. The multimeter is not hard to use, and will give you good information about things that are going on with your trains. For the price of one train car you can get a tool that you will use again and again. Roger Delthony

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10975	From: Mark Preman	Date: 1/4/2001
Subject: January List and Mobile, AL GATS

Happy New Year! The new list is posted and I will be at the Great American Train Show this weekend in Mobile, AL if any of y'all will be in the neighborhood. Mark http://www.americanflyertrains.com ===== Mark B. Preman AmericanFlyerTrains.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10976	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 1/4/2001
Subject: Ammeters

Rhett is right in recommending a meter in line with the variable output. Mine is a 6 amp that I have had for many years. I was in an electronics store the other day and they are still readily available in the $20-$30 range. If you are using an AF or L transformer you will need an AC version. They are very helpful in spotting problems early. When you see the amperage draw start going up on a particular Loco it is time to have a look at it BEFORE something nasty happens. A good running standard armature Steam Loco should not draw over 2 amps while running around the loop by itself. A really good one will only draw 1 1/2. As you add cars and pieces that have electronics in them such as walking brakemen, lighted interiors and the like the draw will go up. The best thing to do is to measure the draw of each piece by itself by setting it on the track and setting voltage at 12v. So that means you need a voltmeter too. If you have an idea of what current should be drawing with whatever you have running it then becomes easy to immediately spot a problem. I strongly recommend that you do install an ammeter on your control panel. It's really neat to see them peg out when a derailment happens and you get a short. kind of like watching a tachometer on a corvette in neutral with the gas pedal to the floor... Regards... Steve Blackburn TCA, NASG, RMHR Boise, Idaho [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10977	From: Michael Greene	Date: 1/4/2001
Subject: Re: Ammeters

Harbor Freight sells a Cen-Tech Multi-tester that includes a 10A ammeter. They often run this on sale at $9.95. I own a few of them -- very handy to use as ammeters around the layout. For example I like to have one in-line with each of my DCC power districts to watch the current draw in each district. Go to http://www.harborfreight.com and search for item # 30756. Michael At 01:30 PM 1/4/2001 -0500, boss31@... wrote: >Rhett is right in recommending a meter in line with the variable output. Mine >is a 6 amp that I have had for many years. I was in an electronics store the >other day and they are still readily available in the $20-$30 range. If you >are using an AF or L transformer you will need an AC version. They are very >helpful in spotting problems early. When you see the amperage draw start >going up on a particular Loco it is time to have a look at it BEFORE >something nasty happens. A good running standard armature Steam Loco should >not draw over 2 amps while running around the loop by itself. A really good >one will only draw 1 1/2. As you add cars and pieces that have electronics in >them such as walking brakemen, lighted interiors and the like the draw will >go up. The best thing to do is to measure the draw of each piece by itself by >setting it on the track and setting voltage at 12v. So that means you need a >voltmeter too. If you have an idea of what current should be drawing with >whatever you have running it then becomes easy to immediately spot a problem. >I strongly recommend that you do install an ammeter on your control panel. >It's really neat to see them peg out when a derailment happens and you get a >short. kind of like watching a tachometer on a corvette in neutral with the >gas pedal to the floor... > >Regards... >Steve Blackburn TCA, NASG, RMHR >Boise, Idaho > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10978	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 1/4/2001
Subject: ammeters

O.K. guys: where can I find a 6 amp AC ammeter, and how much does it cost? Tom Jarcho P.S. This list seems pretty lively these days, with a good friendly spirit and good info. i like it !!!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10979	From: Victor Bereskin	Date: 1/4/2001
Subject: Baldwin Brushes

A year or so ago there was a thread on this list about Baldwin replacement brushes. The thread ran to the conclusion that as a result of inadequate copper flashed onto the brush end (preventing an adequate solder joint to the brush holder), none of the then available replacement brushes were much good. Has this situation improved? Does anyone carry acceptable Baldwin replacement brushes? Vic Bereskin

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10980	From: Ktrdd@AOL.com	Date: 1/4/2001
Subject: AC Ammeters

Hi, I have a 10 amp AC ammeter on my layout wired into one section of track---works like stated in the list. Here's the interesting part: Maker: "Shurite" Place of manufacture: (Where else?) New Haven, Conn.. Wonder if they are still in business? Also have a voltmeter, same company and style of readout. Bought these used at show- they are easy to read and fit the mold of quality stuff made in days past. John R

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10981	From: SMITTY@tir.com	Date: 1/4/2001
Subject: Capacitance and grounds

Maybe some of the more astute, electrically oriented have the answer for this one. I have a 499 with a bad electronic horn. By studying the similar unit in an ALCO B-unit of the same vintage, I was able to determine that the speaker as well as the condensor/capacitor in the 499 have made the utimate transition and are no longer serviceable. I got an identical spec. capacitor from Radio Shack, and did a bread board mock-up with a small speaker I had in the parts box. Connecting the leads to the rails and pressing the horn control button, I got the usual "hernk" sound, not too dissimilar from intact B-unit. BUT........upon switching polarity ( I run rectified DC ) there was absolutely no sound from my bread board set-up. I double checked the "polarity" of the capacitor, found that was fine, and the longer I studied the intact B-unit, the ONLY difference I could find is that one side of the speaker in the B-unit is wired or "grounded" to the frame of the locomotive chassis. Thinking this COULDN'T be the reason, I isolated the speaker/capictor set-up on the B-unit and found it too, was polarity dependent. Reconnecting the wires, the polarity dependence goes away, and I get a diesel horn "hernk" with the reverse switch in either position. There IS the slightest drop in volume with the switch in one position, but otherwise it's just fine. So adjusting my bread board set-up for the 499 to include the speaker grounding to the frame, it now responds just as the B-unit does, with little difference in the setting of the reverse switch. What gives ? To the best of my knowledge, the chassis' are isolated from the trucks and therefore the power leads coming up through the rivets and wires are isolated as well. I gotta be missing something really simple and elementary. Gears and cogs I understand, wires and volts is a little more difficult ( yeah, I've heard that water through the pipe similarity 100 times, but it makes no difference ! ) Hope there's someone amongst the group that can enlighten me. Regard"s", Smitty

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10982	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 1/4/2001
Subject: Re: ammeters

Tom, That's easy. I know of several sources, but here's a good one. Go to www.radioshack.com. In the search box, type in ammeter. This will take you to another page that has a drop down box for choices like analog panel meters, digital panel meters, etc. There are several there. An example is an 2 3/4", 0-10A analog model for $10.31. You can order it right there. Roger Petrella Franktown, CO jarcho@... wrote: > O.K. guys: where can I find a 6 amp AC ammeter, and how much does it cost? > > Tom Jarcho > > P.S. This list seems pretty lively these days, with a good friendly spirit > and good info. i like it !!! > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10983	From: Peck	Date: 1/4/2001
Subject: Re: Wheel gauging, again

<<Doug Peck wrote: >When I do repairs or overhauls, I always use a micrometer and I gauge the >wheels to 0.85 to the outer edges of the flanges. >> As someone pointed out to me, it is probably easier and more consistently reliable to set the space BETWEEN the wheels, rather than at the base of the sloped flange as I stated above. So I gauged a wheelset to the .85 which I cited, and then measured the inner space, between the wheels (i.e, back-to-back) using the micrometer. That distance was .65" (that's just a hair over 5/8" .) I note that someone else stated about .725" for the same dimension. That may work......it's not THAT much different..... but as I said, I've found more problems with engine derailments, esp. on turnouts, when I exceed the .65 dimension. Whatever works, I guess. Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10984	From: Ktrdd@AOL.com	Date: 1/4/2001
Subject: Ammeters

<A HREF="http://www.compusmart.ab.ca/ndyrvik/niepanel.htm">Click here: Norm's Industrial Electronics Web Site</A> This is one result on "Shurite" meters. John R

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10985	From: Peck	Date: 1/4/2001
Subject: Re: Pilot springs.

<<(((( Several days ago, Mike Leahy wrote in asking if anyone knew of an easy way to install coil springs on front trucks. I've been watching (and hoping) for an answer but, thus far, no response. Perhaps, there isn't any "easy way" to do it. . .)))))) >> Well....you basically have 2 choices. (1) Drill out the base of the rivet attaching the pilot truck. Separate it, install new spring, and mount with a new rivet (readily available). (2) Push the rivet up through TOP of the Xhead guide. Hold it there, and twist the cone-spring around the rivet-head (starting with the small end of the spring) and wind it down through the slot in the crosshead guide until it's completely below the guide. This is not difficult to do.....the only "problem" is that the spring will be on the wrong side of the fiber washer, but that's really not a big deal.........it should work fine and stay in place OK. If you're REALLY patient, you can also try winding it down through the washer as well! Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10986	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 1/4/2001
Subject: baggage cars

Bill, I too would really like some 50' REA express reefers. Especially the ones converted fromWW II troop cars. But gotta add that I am NOT interested in any with sprung/equalized trucks. There is no way that head end cars with such trucks could handle being at the front of a string of Flyer passenger cars on Flyer track. They would derail when being backed thru Flyer curves and switches at the head of a string of cast side truck equipped cars. Soon will write a longer post about head end cars, which fascinate me, but right now there's a Ranger game on. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10987	From: Tom Young	Date: 1/4/2001
Subject: Ammeter

Roger, Thanks for steering me to Radioshack tonight. I've been looking for a multimeter that will do AC current. They are usually quite a bit more $ than those without. They have one on sale, measures up to 20 amps AC/DC, more than we need for trains, but will probably come in handy for other applications. Anyway, 20 bucks marked down from 100 and also a PC interface, I'll take it. Tom... Model ME-11, DMM With PC Interface $19.95 $99.95 Reg. Price Brand: Metex Cat.#: 910-4092 Model: ME-11 (Pricing and Availability may vary outside the contiguous 48 United States.)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10988	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 1/4/2001
Subject: Springfield Show

Hi Folks, PHM will be there also. Tom Doherty Pennsylvania Heritage Models, Ltd. http://www.paheritagemodels.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10989	From: loubaldi@aol.com	Date: 1/4/2001
Subject: Re: AF WHEEL GAUGE

--- In S-Trains@egroups.com, loubaldi@a... wrote: > --- In S-Trains@egroups.com, erierailroad@a... wrote: > > Hello, > > > > I was wondering if someone could tell me what is the correct wheel gauge on > > American Flyer locos and cars? > > > > Thanks in Advance, > > Jack > > Jack, > Wheel back to back gauge should be between .725 to .735" - I believe this is the correct gauge for American Flyer hi rail wheels. > Lou Jack, Disregard my comments above. I'm not sure where I got the numbers above except that I had it written in my notes. I corrected my notes to the spec.'s Doug Peck has in his reply. Again, sorry for the confusion. Lou

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10990	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 1/4/2001
Subject: Re: baggage cars

wow, Baseball season is hear already? No, it must be a rerun on ESPN classic. I know the Texas Rangers will be decent this year, but I can't believe they started this early! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10991	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 1/5/2001
Subject: AC amp meters

http://www.primetechnology.com/shurite1aStandard.cfm?hiLite=1a&innerHiLite=st&tableShow=acammeters -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://S-Trains.com (alt e-mail PaulYorke@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10992	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 1/5/2001
Subject: gauging wheels

I go by 18.5-18.75mm back of flange to back of flange. Yeah, I know, what's with this metric stuff. Try it you'll like it. Alot easier, for example, to look for 18 millimeters and half millimeter increments, than find .725" on your ruler or mikes. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10993	From: colin_olsen@hotmail.com	Date: 1/5/2001
Subject: Front End Coupler on an AF 322

Has anyone successfully mounted a front end coupler on the cow catcher of any AF steamer? If so, how was it done. I am in the process of experimenting with a coupler mounted on a machined piece of aluminum that will fit through the hole in the cow catcher of my AF 322. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks. Colin

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10994	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 1/5/2001
Subject: Re: AC amp meters

Okay guys and gals, there's no excuse for being illiterate in such an erudite group as this. There's no such thing as an "amp meter." The correct term is "ammeter," and it's easier to say! Have fun. -- Alex in Kennebunk, Maine -----Original Message----- From: Paul Yorke [mailto:yorke@...] Sent: Friday, January 05, 2001 6:32 AM To: s-trains@egroups.com Subject: [S-Trains] AC amp meters http://www.primetechnology.com/shurite1aStandard.cfm?hiLite=1a&innerHiLite=s t&tableShow=acammeters -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://S-Trains.com (alt e-mail PaulYorke@...) S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10995	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/5/2001
Subject: Re: gauging wheels

Dave, I don't know about your tools, but all my mikes and veneers are in inches, ya want me to go out and buy new ones??? At Starret's prices, I DON'T THINK SO! ;-) S' David "inches" Dewey, another backwards non-metric guy! ;-) PS, Besides, this is "3/16 inches" modelling!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10996	From: toby_loftus@mentor.com	Date: 1/5/2001
Subject: Switches and horns

Hi all, What a great list this is! Lots of very helpful discussion. I have two completely different questions: 1. What is a #3, #4, etc. switch? More specifically, does the number have any relation to the radius of the curve? Some manufacturers (AM, Classic Trains, etc.) list their switches with radius, whereas others (S-Helper) list their switches as #3. How does one know what the basic specs are if all you know is the switch number? 2. I have no engines with horns. From what I understand, horns are activated by sending a DC current to the rails instead of AC. Sooo, what if you have prefer to run everything DC? I've converted all my engines to DC. Do I have to disable any horn-equiped engine's horn, or is there another way? Thanks, -Toby

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10997	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 1/5/2001
Subject: 2001 S-video...ammeters

Hi gang, Because of all the kind words and requests for the promised follow up I am traveling to Salt Lake City this weekend to attend the GATS and video the Golden Spike AF Clubs layout in action. I will also be doing layout/collection video of two of the members that hang out on here regularly and maybe three. The way things are progressing I expect to have a really great 2001 video for you. There are still a few of the 2000 videos left also. The from scratch layout is progressing nicely and I will be doing control panel video next week. Regarding ammeters, the multi-meter type are not what you need for installation in your track circuit. I have a couple of those too but you need a fixed meter permanently in line. Anything from 4 amps up will work just fine as long as it is an AC meter. QUALITY ones cost more but as John Arbuckle said "you get what you pay for" Regards and good running....Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10998	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/5/2001
Subject: Re: Switches and horns

Toby, Yes, the number of the switch corresponds to the radius, but I don't know the formula. The lower the number, the sharper the curve. Horns, well, if you've ever heard the AF horns, you could debate if their operation, or non-operation is a benefit! ;-) With DC running, you probably need DCC (or is it DDC?) electronics to have an on-board horn. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 10999	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 1/5/2001
Subject: AC Ammeter

- Greeting`S' - Oh, boy, the comments from Scott, Roger, Steve, and others are much appreciated. Tom asked about a source of meters. First catalog I pulled out is from Marlin P. Jones & Associates. www.mpja.com In catalog 00-10AB on page 20 is listed a 0 - 5 A AC ammeter, part # 8735-ME, for $13.95. Don't remember if I have ordered from this firm, but other ham radio operators have and apparently with a good deal of satisfaction. Incidentally I am about to take advantage of black line cord sets in the same catalog for $0.99 to do some serious AF transformer repair. Hope this helps. Cheer`S' Rhett

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11000	From: Tom Stolte	Date: 1/5/2001
Subject: rumors

To everyone, Some people have been asking me if I pick up part or all of the Hearld King decal line. I have not. So please anyone reading this, if you hear a person stating this, please tell them to stop spreading these rumors. I do not have 40 grand to spend. -- Tom Stolte - Oddballs Decals The Herald King of Kansas N, HO, S & O Scale Model Railroad Decals 26550 227th Street; McLouth, Kansas 66054 Phone: 913-727-6649 - oddballdecal@... Web site http://www.oddballsdecals.com/ Subscribe: OddballsDecals-subscribe@egroups.com Missouri Pacific Photos Web Page: http://www.trainweb.org/mopac/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11001	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/5/2001
Subject: Re: Pilot springs.

Sounds like your "simple" answer is the last line below "If you're REALLY patient, you can also try winding it down through the washer as well!" Peck wrote: > > <<(((( Several days ago, Mike Leahy wrote in asking if anyone knew of > an easy way to install coil springs on front trucks. I've been > watching (and hoping) for an answer but, thus far, no response. > Perhaps, there isn't any "easy way" to do it. . .)))))) > > >> > > Well....you basically have 2 choices. > (1) Drill out the base of the rivet attaching the pilot truck. Separate it, > install new spring, and mount with a new rivet (readily available). > (2) Push the rivet up through TOP of the Xhead guide. Hold it there, and > twist the cone-spring around the rivet-head (starting with the small end of > the spring) and wind it down through the slot in the crosshead guide until > it's completely below the guide. This is not difficult to do.....the only > "problem" is that the spring will be on the wrong side of the fiber washer, > but that's really not a big deal.........it should work fine and stay in > place OK. > If you're REALLY patient, you can also try winding it down through the > washer as well! > > Doug Peck > Port Lines Hobby Supplies > 6 Storeybrooke Drive > Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 > Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST > 978-465-8798 > 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). > http://www.portlines.com > portlines@... > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11002	From: Peck	Date: 1/5/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 866

<Has this situation improved? Does anyone carry acceptable Baldwin replacement brushes? > Yes...resolved. Both PA and BALDWIN brushes are now OK. We have them in stock. Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11003	From: S-Trains@egroups.com	Date: 1/5/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, January 7, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11004	From: Toyguy5344@aol.com	Date: 1/5/2001
Subject: Gilbert AF horn rework

Hey gang-Probably a year , or more, ago, someone in this group had sent a series of messages explaining how the original Gilbert "Air Chime" whistle worked.He had gone on to state that he was working on designing an actuator(or i guess a signal generator) that would make a sound more like a whistle(or horn) from the original Gilbert tender unit. Has anything come of this?-john marganski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11005	From: SMITTY@tir.com	Date: 1/5/2001
Subject: switches and horns

Yes, Toby there is a relationship between the "number" of a switch and it's radius, although correlating the two gets pretty complicated. Basically, the smaller the number, ie, a #5 or a # 6, the smaller the radius that comes off the switch. Good for yards or industrial spurs, but not high speed. If you were to run your Broadway Ltd. at timtable speeds you'd want a # 21 or therebouts when cutting over from one mainline to another. The number of a switch is derived from the tangent of angle formed by the frog of the switch. Use a left hand turnout as an illustration. Take your measuring scale and place it perpendicular to the left rail of the "main route" track with the "zero" end of the scale on the gauge side of the rail. Slide it along the straight rail, past the frog until the 1/4" mark rests on the gauge-side edge of the outside-of-curve rail of the diverging route. Stop here and note the place where the "zero" end of your scale is on the straight rail. Now measure back, along the straight rail to the "point" of the frog, that is, where the gauge lines of the staight rail ( on the left side ) and the outside-of-curve rail would intersect. It'll be about where the "x"-shaped groove in the frog is, where the flanges of the wheels go. If you measured 1 1/2", which works out to be six 1/4" increments, your switch would be a # 6. If you had measured 2", that would be eight 1/4" increments and your turnout would be a # 8 . If you recall your trig, the tangent of an angle was the "opposite" side of the triangle over the "adjacent". In this case the "opposite" side was the 1/4" measurement, and the "adjacent" side was the 1 1/2" or 2" measurement. In reality, the relationship is actually the arc-tangent ( 1 / tangent ) but that's getting picky ! With regard to running loco's on DC and what to do about horns and whistles. The 314AW had the motor with impeller to make the whistle sound and it had a relay that was activated by sending a low voltage DC impulse through the rails. This, to my knowledge, is the only post war piece Gilbert had that used this sort of activation. If you try to run a 314AW on DC rails, it'll run the boiler out of steam by the first turn, all of it having gone out through the whistle ! The later locomotives, diesel and steam alike, had electronic "whistles" and horns. A high-frequency signal was generated in the control tube by a mechanical vibrator, which was sent through the rails and picked up by the speaker unit in the tender or diesel body. Locomotives equipped such as these can be operated on DC rails. I have both steam and diesel ( and a troublesome 499 Electric ) that have the electronic horn. Running on DC, there can be heard a background hum which increases as the voltage to the engine increases, this, I suppose is induced by the half-rectified DC. My diesels have the "roar" feature which more than drowns out the background hum, and my 336 has just the faintest of hum, the 315 is somewhere in the middle. The 499 is the problem child, and I'm still experimenting with that one. One of my reference books says something about installing a 1,000 MFD capacitor somewhere in the wiring to cut down on the hum when running on DC, but I haven't read all the way through it yet. Hope this wasn't too confusing and you get some good from it ! Regard"s", Smitty

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11006	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 1/5/2001
Subject: Re: Baggage Cars

As some of us have seen me write here before--there are several baggage cars I would be interested in if made; there was a Budd car on RI, NYC, ATSF, and others: 71-4 corner to corner, 14'-6 from corner to edge of door, door 6'6, and 29'4, from the diagrams. There was an earlier, slightly shorter car, 65' corners (sills), 6'6 doors, centered. Other roads had other versions, so it is no wonder we can't think anything but what we have to do to it ourselves to get the prototype representation we want. DJE Bill Rigsby wrote: > Just sent Ron Bashista of Americn Models an email about Baggage > Cars, or rather there lack of. In the latest S Gaugian was an > anouncement for support of making the new Budd Cars in full lentgh in > scale. > The message to Ron was, that in both of his Passenger Car lines one > may order additional Coaches, but not Baggage Cars. > My question to all of you out there is; Would you purchase > additional Baggage Car if available, or in lieu of an Observation Car > in a set, for such things as Mail Trains or to make additional Head > End Units like the Protypes ran? > Please respond with any comments on this page. Next on the list is > the issue of the non-availability of 50' REA Reefers (in other than > Brass). > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11007	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/5/2001
Subject: Gonna miss chat AGAIN!!! Auugh!

Hi everyone, Well, I'm a gonna be out of the house again this Sunday eve. A dinner with my supervisor, and since he's also on the interview committee for the job I'll be interviewing for next Friday, figured I'd better go. . . . Just found out I'm up against some STRONG competition, we'll see if my train budget gets an injection or deflation! (The new job is a bit of an income increase!!--but also much more time involved). Y'all have a great chat! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11008	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 1/6/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Springfield Show

We have been finishing up the details. The chassis and drive are complete and a unit will be running at the Springfield show. We have completed the design for the HIRail handrails, the lens and glazing. Scheduled to have all this on the display. Also hope to have the belly tank ready. The only other question is the sideframes from American HiRail. Tom is awhere of the need for the show and is trying to have the sideframes ready. Tell your road forman to start assembling the painting equipment! Tom D. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Harrison" <terryharr@...> To: <Thomas@...> Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 10:00 PM Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Springfield Show TOM, Since I am not going to be there from FL., how is the drive coming on the Train Master? My Wabash foreman of engines is looking for more power for the head end. Terry

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11009	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 1/6/2001
Subject: 336 lenses?

Here's a question I've been meaning to ask for some time. My childhood prized 336 steam loco has two green-painted "sockets" near the number boards. Presumably these are running lights. I vaguely recall them being glass-jeweled when I was a kid--or am I being too creative? Were they originally jeweled, and if so, can these be obtained anywhere as replacements? Any help is appreciated! Regards from snowy Maine, -- Alex in Kennebunk

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11010	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/6/2001
Subject: Re: 336 lenses?

Alex, Yep, they were jeweled, and most of the jewels have long-since fallen out. BUT! most suppliers, (Doug P, Joe H. , etc.) carry them, and modern super-glue is great for putting them in easily. They are tiny! Be careful, or they end up on the rug as "no see ums"! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11011	From: joeawood@aol.com	Date: 1/6/2001
Subject: Front couplers

message #3 Colin Olsen Ask about front couplers.I tried to double header two atlantics last year,I fastened a bracket on the front screw that holds the loco body on. This did not work well in the corners. I found out A friend of mine is running two atlantics together he told me you have to fasten the front coupler on to the front truck of the loco I havent tried this but his doubles seem to work well with no problem. my 343 has a front coupler it is just mounted to the front frame and swivels maybe someone else has had more experience with this but the front truck arraingment seems to work for doubles. Have Fun Keep on running yopur trains Joe Anderson

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11012	From: W. Thomas Boussum	Date: 1/6/2001
Subject: Old decals.

As a long time model builder I spent a lot of time in the fifties building model airplanes. My favorite genre was solid models, especially those of Guillow's, Strombecker, and Monogram manufacture. When I first started in the forties, an older modeler advised me to coat old decals with clear model airplane dope before applying them to the model. His general rule of thumb was, "... if there is any sign of yellowing on the plans." Later I used the technique with all decal sheets. Over the years I have used this technique and have always had success. W. Thomas Boussum "If you want to bake an apple pie from scratch you must start by creating a universe." Carl Sagan in "Cosmos" [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11013	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 1/6/2001
Subject: 336 lenses/front coupler

Hold on guys -- don't get your jewels in an uproar. The only two Flyer locos with hollow marker lights that could be jeweled are the Challenger and the K-5; the 293 type plastic tender also had two marker light posts. The SIT engines are the only ones I've ever seen with jewels. The K-5 had green jewels, four in front and two on the rear of the tender. The SIT challenger presumably had them too; I've only worked on two or three of those and frankly don't remember. If anyone on this list owns one, I'd like to know if it is jewelled. I have never seen a Flyer S gauge steamer with red jewels. The following chronology may not be completely accurate, but in general link coupler K-5's and Challengers from '48-53 had a dark green shiny paint in the jewel holes. This can be duplicated by mixing a little gloss green paint and Duco cement. Knuckle coupler engines such as the 336 had a flat light green paint in the marker holes. This can be duplicated with a mixture of flat green, yellow and white paints. So Alex, what you have on your 336 is what is supposed to be there. Many Lionel steam locos had marker light jewels. However, these jewels are somewhat larger than the jewels in Flyer locos. Be sure to get the correct size -- the Lionel ones don't fit well on Flyer locos. I doubt you can affix a working coupler through the front pilot, though could be wrong about this. There may be a way, but I haven't been able to figure it out. You have to cut the pilot (cowcatcher) off. The coupler must swing through a wide arc going through the tight Flyer curves, which the pilot overhangs; if the coupler were mounted on a bar that moved in a slot cut into the pilot, the slot would need to be wider than the pilot! I have had two plastic Pacifics double headed for years -- it's great fun. For the front of the trailing engine, I replaced the truck with a stamped metal one from an Atlantic, filled with a piece of lead hammered into the correct shape so it clears the axles and the end of the rivet, which should remain loose. The coupler is screwed to the truck frame. The two locos are wired together with a telephone plug and socket so they run off one reverse unit. The other reverse unit is locked in neutral position. I had to cut a long slot just below the boiler front so the wire could slide from side to side. They are described in "Double Heading Steam Locos" , the Roundhouse in the Nov/Dec '96 S Gaugian. Tom jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11014	From: SMITTY@tir.com	Date: 1/6/2001
Subject: plasticville parts

Within the last few days someone was looking for a source of Plasticville parts. Try Robert Persing, his email is : Bobville@... Regard"s", Smitty

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11015	From: sigma@ecn.ab.ca	Date: 1/6/2001
Subject: (no subject)

If I wish to redecorate a Flyer #655 coach to represent a Boston & Albany car of the 1920s, what color must I paint it? Also, since I'm getting the usual non-response from American Hi Rail I wonder whether anyone else can confirm that AHR #950 (RPO) is a clerestory car. Joe Pereira email: sigma@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11016	From: judy messinger	Date: 1/6/2001
Subject: Repaints?

Anyone have a good formula for painting (repainting) steam loco shells and tenders? I've tried washing the parts with mild soap, bathing them in vinegar and using lacquer and enamel spray paints. I'm not satisfied with the results. Seems the slightest "bump" knocks paint chips off. Edges are the most vulnerable. I guess the zinc in the casting metal is the problem. Years ago,when in high school, I worked summers for a sign painter. Road signs were clad with galvanized (zinc) sheeting. We used a primer made by Sherwin Williams called "XIM". It was a clear, thin coating made especially for this purpose. Seldom had a problem with paint peeling or flaking. I've checked with S.W. and they no longer offer XIM. Anyone know of a similar primer that might work? Any suggestions will be appreciated. Joe Messinger _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11017	From: Ktrdd@AOL.com	Date: 1/6/2001
Subject: Ammeters

Hi, Was snooping around on the equipment. Appearances suggest the possibility that Shurite might have been the supplier of meters for Flyer---specifically the meters for large transformers. Both ACG and Shurite are of the same place at some distant point in the past? Maybe someone else knows more? John R

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11018	From: Alan & Sherry Bennett	Date: 1/6/2001
Subject: Circus cutout

Hi all, While browsing ebay a few weeks ago I came across an item identified as an "IGA Grocery Store Premium Circus Set 1960's". The pictures looked very much like the American Flyer Circus cutouts so I bid and got it for under $25. What arrived was a complete unpunched-out circus set with all the pieces in a large manila envelope marked "This is your SUPER CIRCUS from your friendly IGA SUPERMARKET--Low prices everyday". My old Greenburg Repro is packed away, but this appears to be a dead ringer only much older. Incidently, the envelope seemed to have the original seal, so maybe there are more out there because the pictures on ebay were of the circus set up. Maybe I goofed, and should have kept it sealed! The seller is in Canada, and the set has two sets of instructions, one in English and one in French. All writing on the cutouts themselves is in English, but the is no manufacture's mark that I can find. Does anyone know who printed the AF circus and if they provided it to others before or after it was used for AF? My only problem is that I was expecting to get one that had been assembled since I have never cut out my Greenburg repro since my sister gave it to me years ago. Now I've got another circus that appears older,and while perforated, is unpunched. Which is more valuable in "mint" condition, and if both have some value, where do I find one to set up? Or is there a whole warehouse of these somewhere, and I just overpaid?? I love this hobby!! Alan Bennett

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11019	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 1/7/2001
Subject: Re: Ammeters

Hi all: I've been following this ammeter thread with interest, and so I thought I'd pop in here with an observation or two. The voltmeters used on Gilbert's transformers sure look like Shurite meters to me--and did back when I was a kid and also a scrounging ham radio operator hungry for panel meters. The Shurite meters were always viewed as "junk" by me and friends because they were iron-vane movements entirely devoid of zero-set screws on the front panel. I was a little disappointed as a kid to see those low cost meters on my American Flyer transformer. Today, I'm tickled that my 30B voltmeters still work so well! The little buggers have proven to be rugged as all get-out. Good choice Mr. Gilbert. "Good" meters have zero-set screws at the bottom of the instrument's front face. The screw lets you take a small screwdriver and "zero" the movement when it's at rest. That's because moving-coil meters typically rest at the zero point on their scales differently, depending on whether they're placed in a flat or upright position. It's a matter of balance. If you look closely at a meter's movement you'll likely see tiny spring-like weights on pendulums mounted on the moving coil assembly. In manufacturing, a meter technician actually slides these weights towards the axial shaft or away from it, using a pair of partially hollowed tweezers, in order to mechanically balance the meter. The zero set screw then takes care of the fudge factor out in the field, depending on whether the meter is mounted horizontally or vertically, or in proximity to steel panels, magnetic fields, etc. Also, these analog meters can get slightly out of adjustment, so a zero-set screw is a definite nicety. There are many high quality ammeters out there these days, begging to be saved from the scrap heap. I find them at ham radio flea markets (aka hamfests). You may want to check with a local Radio Amateur. Oh yes, I usually pay between 25-cents and $1 per meter. Why settle for cheap Shurite meters when you can get much, much better ones from Simpson, Honeywell-Marion, Weston, etc? A final comment: ALL moving coil meters are essentially ammeters. To use a meter to measure voltage, a multiplier resistor is placed in series with the ammeter, converting it to a voltmeter (and the meter is equipped with a painted scale that reads "volts"), but that's another story. -- Alex in Kennebunk, Maine -----Original Message----- From: Ktrdd@... [mailto:Ktrdd@...] Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2001 9:14 PM To: S-Trains@egroups.com Subject: [S-Trains] Ammeters Hi, Was snooping around on the equipment. Appearances suggest the possibility that Shurite might have been the supplier of meters for Flyer---specifically the meters for large transformers. Both ACG and Shurite are of the same place at some distant point in the past? Maybe someone else knows more? John R S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11020	From: S-Trains@egroups.com	Date: 1/7/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, January 7, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11021	From: David Garber	Date: 1/7/2001
Subject: Sunday chat

Great turn out. Some new names.Thanks Paul.DAVE GARBER

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11022	From: gino restivo	Date: 1/7/2001
Subject: re; circus cutout

the 5001 T set box measures 17 1/4 x 16 x 3 3/4 could you let us know how big was your envolope ? also the colors / roof style do not match the original , still remember mr. greenburg was willing to rent the missing inserts for $ 50 . and no garuntee it would be returned inn same condition ! IGA store's , use to be A & P ? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11023	From: gino restivo	Date: 1/7/2001
Subject: Re: marker lens / jewels

S I T versions challegr / k 5 are jewel'd , have seen 342 / 343 also , not sure if original [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11024	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 1/7/2001
Subject: Double heading knuckle Steamers

Guess what? While in Salt Lake City at the GATS show this weekend I had the great pleasure of doing video of the Utah Golden Spike American Flyer Club's layout in operation. They had a pair of knuckle coupler Pacific's double headed, (I didn't note the #'s) and pulling a nice consist. BUT, I got it on video for the next edition of S-Gauge Model Railroading in the Mt. West. AND, I have video of it crashing on a turn. Lots of fun here. Wayne Broadhead or one of the Golden Spike guys can bring the list up to date on how they did it. Have fun and Use an ammeter......Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11025	From: Ktrdd@AOL.com	Date: 1/7/2001
Subject: Re: Ammeters

Hi, Thanks for the info. The numbers are tiny but both Shurite meters ( V & A ) say model 850. The Ammeter shows "New Haven, Conn". They have needles that look identical as those on Flyer 30B Trans. These, however, have plastic cases suggesting they might be 1960-70ish in dating. Believe it or not, both have small aluminum adjusting screws on the face that work fine. I wouldn't think there is any old stock of Flyer meters laying in some company forgotten place somewhere although Shurite is still around. Wonder where Shurite is at? My 25MHZ computer doesn't do well at websites and I couldn't get all the info from the website. John R

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11026	From: sigma@ecn.ab.ca	Date: 1/8/2001
Subject: Questions repeated

As the late Count Basie used to say, one more one more . . . If I wish to redecorate a Flyer #655 coach to represent a Boston & Albany car of the 1920s, what color must I paint it? Also, can anyone confirm that American Hi Rail #950 (RPO) is a clerestory car? Joe Pereira email: sigma@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11027	From: John DeFelice	Date: 1/8/2001
Subject: (no subject)

Hi to all & happy New Year!!!!!! I have just taken my Flyers out of the attic after quite a few years, & in checking for operation, I find I have quite a parts "wantlist".. can anyone point me to a list of upcoming swap meets ..... I am in the Philadelphia area..... Thanks in advance John [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11028	From: wayne broadhead	Date: 1/8/2001
Subject: Re: Double heading knuckle Steamers

Hi Steve and all, Yes you were right...your eyes were not playing games with you...there really is a guy in our club who has double headed pacifics....a 282 and 283...and WOW they really look cool pulling 30 to 40 cars around at the show. His name is Al Rawdon....and really likes his FLYER. I'll try to get him to make a comment about those engines today. The GATS show was a big success with HUGE crowds. It was hard to find a spot to stand to see the American flyer running around. we had New Haven PA's pulling the orange stripes, the American Models Amtrak with a long fleet of passenger cars, Santa Fe's, 5 digit Hudsons and many more. A seller, Nor Cal trains...came all the way from California to the Show with a wonderful selection of American Flyer for sale...and especially SHS products, and American models. He had the best, the SW-9's and many beautiful box cars and reefers. He had complete sets......the new SHS track.....and all the Flyer parts that you need to fix accessories and trains. It was a fun show to say the least....and THANKS Steve for coming all the way from Boise Idaho to film our club and some personal collections in Salt Lake City. It was great meeting you, and seeing the master behind the video camera that made my Christmas present this year. Great tape Steve, your a fun guy...wish you were in our club! THANKS!! Wayne Broadhead boss31@... wrote: > > Guess what? > While in Salt Lake City at the GATS show this weekend I had the great > pleasure of doing video of the Utah Golden Spike American Flyer Club's layout > in operation. They had a pair of knuckle coupler Pacific's double headed, (I > didn't note the #'s) and pulling a nice consist. BUT, I got it on video for > the next edition of S-Gauge Model Railroading in the Mt. West. AND, I have > video of it crashing on a turn. Lots of fun here. Wayne Broadhead or one of > the Golden Spike guys can bring the list up to date on how they did it. > > Have fun and Use an ammeter......Steve > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11029	From: wayne broadhead	Date: 1/8/2001
Subject: Flyer fun

What did you guys do on your trains over the weekend? Any repairs, shows, hobby shop visits? Wayne

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11030	From: Dwight Lehnhoff	Date: 1/8/2001
Subject: Re: flyer fun

Have a HO friend who is a 'rivet counter'and hasn't made much progress on a layout in a year. He came over to bring me 6 boxes of train magazines, and was overwhelmed at the 'fun factor' of my AF layout. He was impressed with the smoke, and log loader. etc. Electric Trains need to be kept fun. Dwight Lehnhoff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11031	From: wayne broadhead	Date: 1/8/2001
Subject: Re: flyer fun

thanks Dwight for the weekend review. You had a great weekend.....your right.....electric trains do need to be kept fun!! I made the mistake of thinking i would build MOUNTAINS on my flyer layout....several square feet of them. It has taken the fun out of my trains for sure! I am still only half done...and i have been working on it for 3 years. I enjoy the plaster work...but it is way to time consuming....... Ok lets, keep this "thread" rolling and see what everone did over the weekend with their trains! Wayne Dwight Lehnhoff wrote: > > Have a HO friend who is a 'rivet counter'and hasn't made much > progress on a layout in a year. He came over to bring me 6 boxes of > train magazines, and was overwhelmed at the 'fun factor' of my AF > layout. He was impressed with the smoke, and log loader. etc. > Electric Trains need to be kept fun. > > Dwight Lehnhoff > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11032	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 1/8/2001
Subject: weekend

OK Wayne you asked for it! The Miami Valley S-Gaugers met at yours truly, Chris Burger's (and Beth Burger, Can't leave the boss out, she gets angry when I do). We enjoyed running a Christmas train mixed with AF and S-Helper, A Rocket passenger set with 4 or 5 dome cars, a302 with some cars, a 336 with a mix of AF, SHS and AM cars, an AM S-12 with some Flyer Gondolas with loads, An MTH trolly. My Wife's. An-S-helper SW-9 Pulling the same consist as the 336 did earlier. The K 325 was sidelined for the night with broken wire in the old harness are.(Thanks to Bob, our fearless leader, Guckian for bringing me a new harness) We have held our meetings in January at our Historic 1885 3 story dump the past few years as the layout has grow larger each year. This year we invited the wives to join us as we have finished 3 bedrooms the 2nd floor hall , a bathroom and the kitchen complete with a tin ceiling painted copper. Also the dinning room is finished, but until the third floor is finished, that's where the layout is set up. The layout itself is 2 levels. 1 8X10 with a 2nd level 4X8 overlapping 2 ft to make the overall dimensions 8X12 feet. Lots of Dept. 56 accessories along with anything else to make it look good. There are 43 vehicles consisting of Ertl, Racing Champions and Matchbox cars of yesteryear. The group is currently working on the 2002 spree in Dayton, Ohio which looks like at this time may be held at the Historic Manchester Inn in Middletown Ohio just 20 minutes south of Dayton Proper. This is not in stone yet, but when it does I will let everyone know. The place is awesome from what I here. This should be the best spree ever. We are trying to get the cars started but are having trouble with the amount needed to commit to. The person wants us to commit to 300 cars which is a great liability on our clubs treasury. Hopefully we can get those numbers down around 200 cars. The last Spree car we did in Dayton was the alien Wright -Patterson AFB car which we had to only commit to 150, much easier on our treasury which isn't large at this point. The wives at the meeting were laughing at us with all our chit chat and my wife has said that here and a couple other wives would like to do the planning of most of the spree for us. I think it would be great to get them involved at this point. We get that nice woman's touch then. Leaves more time for important things like playing with trains. Our next meet is in Columbus Ohio in February for anyone on the list able to make that GATS show stop by and say hello. Yes I bragged a little about the layout and I probably said more than I should have about the 2002 S-Spree. Hopefully, just enough to wet you tran whistle. Start saving for the 2002 Spree, it's gonna be a great one!!!! Chris [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11033	From: Al	Date: 1/8/2001
Subject: Double Header

Hi Steve, Just read your post to S-Trains. Thanks a lot for the coverage of the show - it was great having you there. Our club enjoyed having you as a guest. The double header was a 282-283 combo. I think the reason it crashed on the corner was the fact that I was using flyer cars with too light a load behind the 2nd engine. I should have put the lighter loads at the rear of the consist. The doublel header actually works better if I am using newer cars made by AM, SHS, AF LTI, or other new S gauge cars. They roller better and have less friction. I didn't actually built the double header. That honor goes to George Stapleford of Bountiful, Utah. If anyone is interested on how it was done, I can draw up the details and email it to you or anyone else on S-Trains. Now, I can hardly wait to see the crash since I was on the opposite side of the layout with the rc when it happpened. Should be a great laugh also. However, you should have caught the head-on crash over on the Lionel O gauge layout. That one caused some damage to both trains. That was some great engineering work. Al

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11034	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 1/8/2001
Subject: questions repeated

Joe: I have a photo I got from Tom Hodgson a few years ago that shows a clerestory roofed Flyer RPO he offered; the number on it is 24734; looks very nice. It matches Flyer heavyweights. i presume it is the same car but cannot guarantee that. Does this answer your question? What color to paint a B & A passenger car from the 1920's is tough because color film didn't exist then. As a guess, I would say pullman or dark olive green, flat back roof, dulux gold lettering. The folks at Clover House might know; they sort of specialize in lettering for older trains. I wonder what color standard NYC baggage and mail cars from the 1950's and 60's were painted. These cars were NEVER washed and it's impossible to tell, even from color photos. They were so dirty that the lettering usually isn't visible! Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11035	From: wayned9@msn.com	Date: 1/8/2001
Subject: Ghost of American Flyer

This is strange. I recently hooked up a button-operated chip unit with a message encased in my old Plasticville Station. It seems whenever my old AF passes by the location of the building, the message sounds without my activating the button. When I run my SW-1, it never does. I have leaned on the tracks with no effect, so it is not a weight issue of the tracks bearing down on the wires beneath. Furthermore, it is currently, operating on its own 4 AA batteries and is not even connected up to anything else! I wouldnt particularly care, but right now it is running on batteries. (I would like to join it up with the regular accessory current though.) Anyone got an idea? thanks

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11036	From: Neil Trump	Date: 1/8/2001
Subject: That ebay item with a $55 shipping cost

For those that were interested in the dealer trying to sell a 596 water with a $55 shipping charge, it is back on again. This time he has used the 'Buy now' feature. Still wants nearly $90 for it. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=539234953 Neil T. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11037	From: johnbraker@webtv.net	Date: 1/8/2001
Subject: 771 stockyard

Can anyone out there tell me the differentiating characteristics between the 771vs.the K771? I recently acquired one ,but was unaware three versions(23771 as well) exist.no box or manual but in very nice shape.Any input is greatly appreciated as always. Thank you, JCbraker

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11038	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 1/8/2001
Subject: Re: 771 stockyard

John, According to Greenberg, the 771 had either a blue, gray or green base (green most common) and the 736 stock car and the K version comes with blue base loading pen and 976 stock car. I have the original K771 my dad bought me when I was little and it has the green base and 736 stock car. Sometimes I think Gilbert put in what they had available. The 23771 supposedly came with blue base and 976 car. One thing I have noticed is that the earlier versions all came with the control box with the button and rotary switch, while later boxes had two buttons, but one locked with a half turn after depressing it. Roger Petrella Franktown, CO johnbraker@... wrote: > Can anyone out there tell me the differentiating characteristics > between the 771vs.the K771? I recently acquired one ,but was > unaware three versions(23771 as well) exist.no box or manual but in > very nice shape.Any input is greatly appreciated as always. > Thank you, > JCbraker > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11039	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 1/8/2001
Subject: Re: That ebay item with a $55 shipping cost

I just checked this item and it says the buyer pays actual shipping charges and no Buy it now. The "carefully touched up arrow" looks real bad and he doesn't mention the touch up on the roof edges. Roger Petrella Franktown, CO Neil Trump wrote: > For those that were interested in the dealer trying to sell a 596 water with a $55 shipping charge, it is back on again. This time he has used the 'Buy now' feature. Still wants nearly $90 for it. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=539234953 > > Neil T. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11040	From: William H Trefts	Date: 1/9/2001
Subject: Traveling to Orlando, Florida

Friends, My wife and I will be in Orlando, Florida January 23 - 26. Any train related shops worth seeing? Doubt if we can afford to buy anything, but that depends on what tempts us. Mark Preman, are you in the Orlando vicinity? Thanks! Bill Trefts ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11041	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 1/9/2001
Subject: Re: 771 stockyard

I think the K designated knuckle couplers on the car. Michael johnbraker@... wrote: > Can anyone out there tell me the differentiating characteristics > between the 771vs.the K771? I recently acquired one ,but was > unaware three versions(23771 as well) exist.no box or manual but in > very nice shape.Any input is greatly appreciated as always. > Thank you, > JCbraker > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11042	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 1/9/2001
Subject: Re: FLYER FUN

Hi Wayne and All, A neighbor dropped by and I gave him back issues of Classic Toy Trains as we talked about the hobby. I traced our corner module and gave it to one of our NPSGers to build a scene. My mind is still planning for our Family Heritage Train Show on 1/26-27/01 and Greenberg 2/17-18/01. I hope to stop working (architecture) for a day or two and do more module detailing. Staying on the NPSG brancline of NASG track, Glenn

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11043	From: John DeFelice	Date: 1/9/2001
Subject: Hamburg, Gilbertsville,Nur Temple meets..........

Hello I'm new here & looking for a schedule or any info & dates for upcoming meets........... I enjoy reading the tech messages & hope I can also help out in sorting out some Flyer problems........... Thanks in advance, John [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11044	From: tsbikes@trailsidebikes.com	Date: 1/9/2001
Subject: Phila. shows re:"John DeFelice"

HI John, I thought I'd post this to the list in case others are interested in meets. Of course the Mecca of meets is York but that is not until April, but you should not miss that! According to my calender there is a TCA meet at the Norristown Armory on 1/14 and another at the Lancaster Farm and Home building on 2/10. Info on all these and other TCA events can be found at: http://www.tcastation.org/ In the meantime there are many sources for parts listed at Paul Yorke's excellent site: http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ I wish there was a central site for listing all the meets (hint, hint Paul). I am constantly looking for things to go to on weekends. That way my wife wont make me work on the house! See you there< Jim Grimes TCA 97-45877

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11045	From: wayne broadhead	Date: 1/9/2001
Subject: Re: FLYER FUN

thanks Glen for sharing your weekend.....nice to see you are staying on the Flyer track..... Wayne Glenn Ritter wrote: > > Hi Wayne and All, > > A neighbor dropped by and I gave him > back issues of Classic Toy Trains as > we talked about the hobby. I traced > our corner module and gave it to > one of our NPSGers to build a scene. > My mind is still planning for our > Family Heritage Train Show on > 1/26-27/01 and Greenberg 2/17-18/01. > I hope to stop working (architecture) > for a day or two and do more module > detailing. > > Staying on the NPSG brancline > of NASG track, Glenn > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11046	From: rxman46321@aol.com	Date: 1/9/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 870

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11047	From: rxman46321@aol.com	Date: 1/9/2001
Subject: Doubleheading

If you go to Paul's S-train site, take the navigation route and then got to S Gauge Herald there is a diagram about adding a coupler to the front of a steam engine without damaging the cow catcher. John Griffin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11048	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 1/9/2001
Subject: Re: Traveling to Orlando, Florida

Well, we have Colonial Photo and Hobby, and The Train Depot. Neither carry any S gauge. However, at the intersection of I-4 and Fairbanks Ave, we have a store called SKYCRAFT PARTS, which is an Electronic Surplus store that is great for buying stuff for wiring your layout, scatch building supplies, etc. They carry a huge supply of things like screws, rivets and eyelets. Eyelets go for like 12 for 30 cents, or 100 for $2.10. They have all kinds of wire you could use for motor rewinding, sold by the foot. They have every odd size. You can buy14 gauge, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, etc. As far as S gauge trains stores, we are bare. And Yes, Mark Preman is in Orlando, but unfortunately does not operate a regular store (I wish he did!). I think he sells mostly by the Internet and Train Shows.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11049	From: John DeFelice	Date: 1/9/2001
Subject: Train meets

Thanks for the train meet info....... Are these shows listed open to the public, or are they for club members? Are guests welcome? I remember going to Gilbertville & Nur Temple in the past......... Thanks in advance John [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11050	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 1/9/2001
Subject: copper brushes, original smoke fluid

I'm overhauling my brother in-law's 1947 322 SIT. The brushes are practically solid copper in color and composition. For example, they don't make a mark on paper like modern (higher graphite content) brushes do. This is the second engine I've noticed these in. Does anyone know their background? They seem original. I'll test the engine with these and with modern (black) replacements to see if there's much difference. With this engine, its matching cars, some accessories and other goodies, I found some original red smoke fluid vials. These have turned hard as glass but are completely full. Since this engine has probably never been run on anything else than original fluid, I opened one and poured it in before commencing further with my smoke unit testing, cleaning, etc. Wow, what a time warp. That fragrance. There's nothing else like it. Thick, very white, wispy clouds of smoke with a great smell having traces of cedar and menthol. Anyway, I just thought I'd share that Flyer moment with you. There's lots of clean up, tuning, etc, to go, but I think this one has the potential to turn out just right - - fast, strong, smooth and smoky. Of course then I have to return it all to him, but at least I'll know it's in good shape for the next 53 years. Has anyone tried RF Giardinia's "original" AF formula smoke fluid? How does it, or any others claiming to be like the original, compare to original? I like LVTS S-Gauge fluid, but it doesn't quite have all the great qualities of truly original juice. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11051	From: Bob Sylsbury	Date: 1/9/2001
Subject: (no subject)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11052	From: Bob Sylsbury	Date: 1/9/2001
Subject: Counter-clockwise....?

In the November/December issue of S-Gaugian,Tom Jarcho states that most trains should be run counter-clockwise.Why? Is this true on real trains or just model trains ? Please let me (us) know.Thank you once agian for all of the panel's wisdom ! "S"incerely...Bob

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11053	From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade	Date: 1/9/2001
Subject: [Commercial] Newest S Structure Ready

Howdy Friends The third building in the New River Yard series, the Handcar Shed, is finished and S scale kits will be ready to ship on Monday. This shed is a Maryland & Pennsylvania prototype and was chosen to compliment the M&PA locos that we are making. Jump to http://www.btsrr.com/bts7503.htm for photos and footprint. We have two other kits from the New River Yard series, the MoW shed and Freight House, in stock. More coming! Thanks, and take care, Bill PS - Wrapping up the conversion of the Cabin Creek Coal Tipple; only one Silver Edition left to reserve. http://www.master-creations.com/coalmast.htm And only six Coon Gap Sawmills left. http://www.btsrr.com/btsmil01.htm -- =============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11054	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 1/9/2001
Subject: Ghost of American Flyer

- Greeting`S' - Wayne d9 wrote of an AF turning on the station solid-state sound unit all by itself. Not sure if he wanted the SW-1 to go and do likewise, but I think it may be the other way around. The hefty 1.5 to 2 A drawn by the AF will induce lots of transient electrical behavior in the wires that pass under the track to the button. The SW-1 draws but a small bit of that, uses twice as many wheels for power pickup (reduces sparking), likely has a capacitor across the motor brushes to contain motor noise, and does not induce transients into the button wiring. Best bet is a 0.1 to 0.5 microfarad capacitor across the pair of wires at the station. This will help short out any transients (voltage spikes) in the control circuit. If anyone having this problem tries connecting a capacitor between the two wires, please let us know if it works. Cheer`S' Rhett

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11055	From: jbs@misi.org	Date: 1/9/2001
Subject: Preserving Lichen

Anyone know what to treat lichen with to keep it soft and flexible?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11056	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 1/9/2001
Subject: counter clockwise

Bob, I made that statement in the middle of the article about my "Sofa Central" track plan. The statement only applies to running trains on the Sofa Central. Switching and yard operations on that railroad are easier on that railroad if the trains run counter clockwise because of the direction all the switches in the yard face. It does not apply to any other situation. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11057	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 1/9/2001
Subject: S Scale Mogul from SSL&S

S Scale Loco. & Supply has announced its latest project. A CNR Mogul E10a. It will be available as a kit, semi-kit (assembled drive), or RTR. No prices have been set at this time, with delivery planned for the 2001 NASG Conventon at Steamtown in Scranton, PA. You can see some pics of the prototype and the current progress on the engine at http://www.sscaleloco.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11058	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 1/9/2001
Subject: Re: copper brushes, original smoke fluid

I have tried the Giardiania's "original" smoke fluid . I find it superior to super smoke, and the scent is as I remember it. Michael Christensen david_horn@... wrote: > I'm overhauling my brother in-law's 1947 322 SIT. The brushes are > practically solid copper in color and composition. For example, they don't > make a mark on paper like modern (higher graphite content) brushes do. This > is the second engine I've noticed these in. Does anyone know their > background? They seem original. I'll test the engine with these and with > modern (black) replacements to see if there's much difference. > > With this engine, its matching cars, some accessories and other goodies, I > found some original red smoke fluid vials. These have turned hard as glass > but are completely full. Since this engine has probably never been run on > anything else than original fluid, I opened one and poured it in before > commencing further with my smoke unit testing, cleaning, etc. Wow, what a > time warp. That fragrance. There's nothing else like it. Thick, very > white, wispy clouds of smoke with a great smell having traces of cedar and > menthol. Anyway, I just thought I'd share that Flyer moment with you. > There's lots of clean up, tuning, etc, to go, but I think this one has the > potential to turn out just right - - fast, strong, smooth and smoky. Of > course then I have to return it all to him, but at least I'll know it's in > good shape for the next 53 years. > > Has anyone tried RF Giardinia's "original" AF formula smoke fluid? How > does it, or any others claiming to be like the original, compare to > original? I like LVTS S-Gauge fluid, but it doesn't quite have all the > great qualities of truly original juice. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11059	From: russcalla@aol.com	Date: 1/9/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 870

A Question to the Group. I really enjoy everyone's knowledge about our hobby and ask for some help. I have a 954 Grand Canyon Observation, which is in excellent condition. The problem is with the observation platform. It warps downward and I would like to straighten it out. Would someone have a suggestion on how to make it right. Thanks, Russ Callahan

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11060	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 1/9/2001
Subject: copper brushes, original smoke

David, I had a similar experience. Two of my steamers were running so well on my xmas layout that I gave them a present -- small amounts of original Flyer smoke fluid from a precious bottle I bought as a kid. WOW! Clouds of white smoke that had that old familiar smell and were not irritating at all. Absolutely no comparison to modern replacements. I had considered these locos indifferent smokers until then. What was in that stuff??? Those copper brushes are original -- and a little tougher on the commutator than the graphite ones too. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11061	From: WNHOLCOMB@aol.com	Date: 1/10/2001
Subject: Re: Cattle Car Repair

I'm in the process of repairing a 736 Operating Cattle Car that is missing the vibrating mat. Has anyone tried to use fine sandpaper or emery cloth for a mat or is a "special" material required ? Thanks, Neil Holcomb

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11062	From: Rick {bAss-flyer} Evans	Date: 1/10/2001
Subject: Fwd: S gauge site

Found this on the Toy Train list....sorry if it has been posted before!! Rick. **(((Here is a site especially for S gaugers. The author is Tom Barker. A link at the bottom takes you to a train page. There you will find another link to a page of pictures. The pictures take a while to load, so get up and stretch when you click the last link.))** http://www.rit.edu/~tbbeqa/index.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11063	From: Wayne and Alice Beachy	Date: 1/10/2001
Subject: New ACSG pages

Hi All, I worked late into the night last night and added some new pages to the Atlantic Coast S Gaugers web pages. One page is some photos of Washington and Old Dominion Division member Dave Horn's home layout. You will find it in the W&OD index under members layouts. The second page is photos of our Virginia Central Division's 4 X 8 layout at the Greenberg show last weekend in Virginia Beach. You will find it on the Virginia Central Division index page. We continue to recruit new members for a proposed Tidewater Virginia/NC division. If you know anyone in the area, contact them. Our organizational meeting will be Feb. 11 at 1 pm. They can contact me at abeachy@... for information. Our web page address is http://sgauge.homestead.com/ACSGindex.html Wayne Beachy Atlantic Coast S Gaugers Virginia Central Division [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11064	From: Tom Stolte	Date: 1/10/2001
Subject: New Decals from Oddballs Decals - N, S, HO & O scales

596 CHSX Harvest States 50' tank car. (11-98) Painted black. Altas tank car kit. Set will letter one car. White, green, yellow and black graphics. 597 Rock Island 3500 cuft dry flow car. (10-62) Painted light grey. Eastern Car Works kit. Set will letter one car. 18 inch block ROCK ISLAND lettering. Black graphics. 598 HZGX thrall 50' gondola. (8-85) Painted black with orange ends. MDC kit. Set will letter one car. White, black and yellow graphics. 599 CNW 50' hi cube boxcar. (3-95) Painted CNW green. Walthers kit. Set will letter one car. Yellow, black, red and white graphics. Has small CNW 3 color system herald. 600 Rock Island 3500 cuft dry flow car. (10-62) Painted light grey. Eastern Car Works kit. Set will letter one car. 30 inch block ROCK ISLAND lettering. Black graphics. The N scale sets will letter 2 or 3 cars. S & O scale will letter 1 car. All the above decals refer to HO scale kits on the market. These will also work for other scales. Just pick a car of your choice in the other scales. Prefix numbers for N scale 60-. HO scale 87-. S scale 64-. O scale 48-. N & HO scale retail price $3.00. S & O scale retail price $6.00. These should be in your favorite hobby shop within the next month. If ordering direct, please include $1.75 for p&h. Up to date catalog N, HO, S & O scale, $5.00. You buy this catalog once, then every 3 months or so, send me a LSSAE for updates. Fits in a 3 ring binder. -- Tom Stolte - Oddballs Decals N, HO, S & O Scale Model Railroad Decals 26550 227th Street; McLouth, Kansas 66054 Phone: 913-727-6649 - oddballdecal@... Web site http://www.oddballsdecals.com/ Subscribe: OddballsDecals-subscribe@egroups.com Missouri Pacific Photos Web Page: http://www.trainweb.org/mopac/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11065	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 1/10/2001
Subject: WHAT THE????

Hi guys, Anyone know what a PA=10069 is? It has two rails, and two more onthe inside of those. I think it's a track trip of some kind. Maybe for an operating car. Also has two nuts for wires to hook up to. Thank You, Mike S Also is on a Black plastic base

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11066	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/10/2001
Subject: Re: WHAT THE????

Sounds like you're referring one of the early (1946) style action tracks for the unloading hopper. anormal1@... wrote: > > Hi guys, > Anyone know what a PA=10069 is? It has two rails, and two > more onthe inside of those. I think it's a track trip of some kind. Maybe for > an operating car. Also has two nuts for wires to hook up to. Thank You, > > Mike S > Also is on a Black plastic base > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11067	From: gino restivo	Date: 1/10/2001
Subject: Re: Preserving Lichen

gliceryn , was originaly used to keep it soft , it is like syrup you may need prescription to get it ? -----Original Message----- From: jbs@... <jbs@...> To: s-trains@egroups.com <s-trains@egroups.com> Date: Tuesday, January 09, 2001 1:38 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Preserving Lichen >Anyone know what to treat lichen with to keep it soft and flexible? > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Shop online without a credit card http://www.rocketcash.com RocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11068	From: judy messinger	Date: 1/10/2001
Subject: Transformer repair?

Can anyone recommend a good source of information for repairing Flyer transformers? I checked Paul's F.A.Q. regarding transformers, and read Tom J.'s info. on transformer safety. I checked as instructed. The problem I have is with a 16-B that feeds out about 5 volts when the throttle control is on zero m.p.h.. Loco gradually stops but the reverse unit hums and won't cycle. Thanks, Joe Messinger _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11069	From: gino restivo	Date: 1/10/2001
Subject: Fw: [S-Trains] Re: Cattle Car Repair

-----Original Message----- From: gino restivo <lastman@...> To: WNHOLCOMB@... <WNHOLCOMB@...> Date: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 9:46 PM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Re: Cattle Car Repair >try triple 's' for the correct mat , if no has it > 15 # roofing paper is close and will work >fairly good .... i would not use sandpaper > > >-----Original Message----- >From: WNHOLCOMB@... <WNHOLCOMB@...> >To: S-Trains@egroups.com <S-Trains@egroups.com> >Date: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 10:25 AM >Subject: [S-Trains] Re: Cattle Car Repair > > >>I'm in the process of repairing a 736 Operating Cattle Car that is missing >>the vibrating mat. Has anyone tried to use fine sandpaper or emery cloth >for >>a mat or is a "special" material required ? >> >>Thanks, >>Neil Holcomb >> >>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >>All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! >> >>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to >s-trains-unsubscribe@... >> >> > Shop online without a credit card http://www.rocketcash.com RocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11070	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 1/10/2001
Subject: transformer repair?

Joe: the 16B transformer is supposed to put out 5 volts at the zero speed setting , which will stop the train but hold the reverse unit in position, unless you lift the handle. if you lift the handle, it's supposed to put out 0 and stop the train and cycle the reverse unit. If the transformer still puts out 5 volts when you lift the handle at the zero speed position, the arm that holds the roller might be bent down a little too far, or the rivet at the non roller end may be loose or worn,or the spring loaded assembly, which moves the roller down when the handle is down and up when the handle is up, might be sticking instead of moving freely up and down. If this assembly is not sticking, try bending the roller end of the roller arm upward just a little. When you reassemble the unit, be sure that the roller arm fits properly into (between) the two small tabs on the "contact lever and stud assembly XA11A934", which is part of the turret. it helps to have the front panel of the transformer off and look in there with a flashlight while you put the case back on. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11071	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/10/2001
Subject: Re: WHAT THE????

Mike, This is an action car activation track for the very early cars that have a "shoe" in one truck with two contacts that match the inside rails. I've only seen the hopper car with this feature, but expect the lumber unloader and the mail car must have used this too. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11072	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/10/2001
Subject: Re: Transformer repair?

Joe, A 16B is supposed to do this. Voltage doesn't drop to zero until you lift the "dead mans" handle. I usually don't lock the handle down because of this, it's just easier to lift it without it being locked down. For more permanent installations, you can put in a normally closed push button to "kill" the power and activate the reverse unit. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11073	From: William James	Date: 1/11/2001
Subject: tunnels

I am looking for ideas to help me be creative in making a mountain scene with a tunnel for my train to run through. Cash flow is a hindrance so I want to do this as cheap, but nice as I can. Any help or ideas would be much appreciated. William T. James, Jr. wiljam@... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11074	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 1/11/2001
Subject: Preserving Lichen

- Greeting`S' - On Tuesday JBS asked about preserving lichen. Many moons ago, likely in Model Railroader, I believe I read that glycerin does the trick. From somewhere I remember that auto anti-freeze will also work. Just soak the lichen before placing on the layout. If you have corrections to these comments, please bring them forth. Cheer`S' Rhett

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11075	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 1/11/2001
Subject: Re: tunnels

Hi William: What I do for "scenery" is to make a rough (and I mean rough) underlying structure using scrap stripwood. Next I lace the wood with strips of corrugated cardboard. The strips run about a foot long and an inch or two wide. I use an opening (folding) office stapler to hold them in place. Once that's done, you can flex the "shell" a bit to get an approximation of its final contour and shape. Next, ensure that your trains clear the web you've created. Then cover the trackage with a suitable protector such as newspaper strips. Next, mix a small amount of Plaster of Paris (a cup or two at a time), and quickly soak strips of paper toweling in the wet plaster. Immediately lay these wet strips over the wood/cardboard framework. Let them harden and then immediately thickly paint with water-based latex paint of your underlying color choice. While the paint is still wet, sprinkle liberally with dyed sawdust to suit your color scheme. I tint my sawdust in the summertime (outdoors) using Tintex and hot water. I work an area of a few square feet at a time. I also spray-soak the edges of the hardened areas with water before adding more plaster for a new section of work. If you make an error, you can crack it away and start over, or even file it or sand to fit. I think the effect is very nice. I even got an unsolicited comment to that effect when Doug Peck visited my layout recently. -- Good luck, Alex in Kennebunk, Maine -----Original Message----- From: William James [mailto:wiljam@...] Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 9:10 AM To: s-trains@... Subject: [S-Trains] tunnels I am looking for ideas to help me be creative in making a mountain scene with a tunnel for my train to run through. Cash flow is a hindrance so I want to do this as cheap, but nice as I can. Any help or ideas would be much appreciated. William T. James, Jr. wiljam@... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11076	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/11/2001
Subject: Re: tunnels

Bill, One of the most important "tricks" to tunnel building (besides making sure your tunnel has enough clearance for ALL your running stock!) is to make the portals look like they are a dark hole. This is most easily done by having about 6" of tunnel lining at the portal, that is really dark. For my portable layouts, I use black poster "board" (actually just thick paper) glued to the backside of the portal (which in my case is just 1/4" plywood painted brick red with gray pencil making the brick "mortar"), but for a more realistic look, you could have the liner painted to look like whatever material the tunnel would be lined and air brush it to black so it does look like a shadow. For a rock lining, aluminum foil "crunched" and "uncrunched" gives a believable surface, use the dull side and paint afterwards. it will last longer (from derailments, etc.) if you glue it to a backing (hot glue or silicone should work for an adhesive). Don't forget to provide some access to retrieve derailments, etc.; The AF crane isn't remote controlled enough to remove them! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11077	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/11/2001
Subject: Re: Preserving Lichen

The modern "green"(envirmentally-friendly) anti-freeze may not have the same chemicals in it that preserved the Lichen, anyone know for sure? S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11078	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/11/2001
Subject: Re: tunnels

My favorite is laminating 1" blue or pink construction foam as a sort of contour map. Slice or cut the square edges off and it makes a pretty good light weight mountain. Use a thin coat of plaster if the contour isn't smooth enough to suit you. Paint w/brown latex flat paint and sprinkle grass on while paint is still wet. William James wrote: > > I am looking for ideas to help me be creative in making a mountain scene with a tunnel for my train to run through. Cash flow is a hindrance so I want to do this as cheap, but nice as I can. Any help or ideas would be much appreciated. > William T. James, Jr. > wiljam@... > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11079	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/11/2001
Subject: [Fwd: looking for Huff n Puff kits]

Can anyone help with info requested below on Ye Old Huff and Puff? The link on Craig O'connel's site doesn't work. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: looking for Huff n Puff kits Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 08:43:50 -0500 From: "Holly Ferguson" <murphysmulebarn@...> To: <cesmith@...> We are new to the train world. I saw a huff n puff poultry car that I just have to have. We are looking for a dealer. Our computer search gave us your web page. If you don't sell them do you know anyone in the USA that does?Holly G. FergusonGarrett, IN [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11080	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 1/11/2001
Subject: Re: Preserving Lichen

Glycerin is used to preserve the flexibility of lichen. It is readily available from a chemical supply house such as Fisher Scientific. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11081	From: Mark Preman	Date: 1/11/2001
Subject: Flyer Circus Cutouts

Someone was looking for some "usable" cutouts and I mistakenly "trashed" the message. I have a set of Greenberg repro (probably 85% complete) already put together and ready for display. Contact me off line if you are still interested. I can provide a picture. Mark ===== Mark B. Preman AmericanFlyerTrains.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11082	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 1/11/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 872

Hi Rick, As I dug through Tom Barker's site I found this article he authored in 1976 about the A.C. Gilbert company. Maybe he will do a sequel now that S Gauge is growing again after 25 years. http://www.rit.edu/~tbbeqa/AF%20History.html Staying on the NPSG branchline of NASG track, Glenn

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11083	From: Lee Johnson	Date: 1/11/2001
Subject: Re: Preserving Lichen

on 1/11/01 6:10 AM, Rhett T. George at rtg@... wrote: > - Greeting`S' - > > On Tuesday JBS asked about preserving lichen. Many moons ago, likely in > Model Railroader, I believe I read that glycerin does the trick. I just happened to be going through some old Model Railroaders and found the article "How to process lichen" in the January, 1960 issue. They used a "pickling" solution of 1 part glycerin 1 part acetone 1 part alcohol You start off by immersing the dry lichen in water, and after it is softened, you put in the Pickling solution. This is to be done in a well ventilated area. They stated that to process one bale of lichen use one quart per part in the above formula. For six bales of lichen, they used one gallon per part. They also stated that after processing six bales of lichen, most of the glycerin had been absorbed, but most of the acetone and alcohol remained in their "pickling tub." they just added another part glycerin to the remaining solution. Hope the above helps. Lee

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11084	From: judy messinger	Date: 1/12/2001
Subject: Transformer Repair-Thanks!

Thank you to all who offered advice regarding the problem (5-6 volts at zero throttle setting) I thought I was having with my 16-B transformer. I understand, now, how it is supposed to work. I have two 16-B transformers. I have had one for 15 or so years. The other was recently purchased. I questioned the operation of the most recently acquired 16-B because my first one does not feed any voltage at zero throttle. I assumed this was correct and that the newer 16-B was faulty. Turns out to be the other way around! Happens almost every time I assume something. . . Thanks again for your help. Joe Messinger _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11085	From: sigma@ecn.ab.ca	Date: 1/12/2001
Subject: Re: S Scale Mogul from SSL&S

The master for the Canadian National Mogul to be unveiled by S Scale Loco. & Supply at the NASG meet was built by Simon Parent of Calgary, one of the premier modellers among members of S Canada. (Subscribers to Bill Wade's late lamented magazine may remember a cover story about a fine CN caboose outshopped by Simon a couple of years ago.) The prototypes were built in 1910 by Canadian Locomotive Company for the Grand Trunk Railway of Canada and most of them remained in service until 1951. Way to go, Simon! Joe Pereira email: sigma@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11086	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 1/12/2001
Subject: Re: S Scale Mogul from SSL&S

Our Canadian neighbors maintain a web site (bi-lingual, of course). The new Mogul is mentioned there and the URL is: http://geocities.com/Colosseum/Bench/7918/cssq/ Or you can go to http://www.s-scaletrains.com and click on the Club Car. >The master for the Canadian National Mogul to be unveiled by S Scale Loco. >& Supply at the NASG meet was built by Simon Parent of Calgary, one of the >premier modellers among members of S Canada. (Subscribers to Bill Wade's >late lamented magazine may remember a cover story about a fine CN caboose >outshopped by Simon a couple of years ago.) >The prototypes were built in 1910 by Canadian Locomotive Company for the >Grand Trunk Railway of Canada and most of them remained in service until >1951. >Way to go, Simon! >Joe Pereira > > email: sigma@... >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11087	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 1/12/2001
Subject: Re: Web site correction

Sorry, those long names throw me sometimes. The correct URL is: >http://geocities.com/Colosseum/Bench/7918/cssq/cssq.html > >Or you can go to http://www.s-scaletrains.com and click on the Club Car. >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11088	From: velapoldi@netcom.no	Date: 1/12/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] MOGUL

Or small and large bumps that I assiduously avoid when I am skiing now that I have joined the older group. Rance "Robert W. Jackson" wrote: > Mogul??!! > Isn't a mogul an Indian potentate or a mound of detritus left by the leading > edge of a glacier? > Bob Jackson

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11089	From: Novak, William	Date: 1/12/2001
Subject: Track Trip Replacement

I'm considering using Gargraves track when I construct my new layout. This requires, however, having to splice in AF track to use AF track trips to operate semaphores and switches. Is anyone aware of substitutes for the AF track trip that I could easily use with Gargraves track? I'd like to come up with a fool proof device that is less troublesome than the AF track trip (i.e., no sticking, consistently works with all engine sizes and weights, etc.). I have some information on Hall sensors, a device that can sense small magnetic currents and then activate an electronic circuit. It might be possible to mount such a device on the ties of the Gargraves track and glue permanent magnets on the bottom of the engines to activate it. Also, if anyone is familiar with the Hall sensors, would just the magnetic field currents in an AF engine be strong enough to activate the sensor when an engine passes over it? Remember, I just want to activate a circuit briefly as a train passes. (I've already come up with an electronic infrared device to operate the AF crossing gate for the whole length of a train.) Any and all help would be greatly appreciated. Bill Novak Arlington, VA

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11090	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 1/12/2001
Subject: TRACK TRIP

If you are going to glue magnets on the bottom of your engines The type of switch you might have good luch with is one used for burgler alarms. They are small and they can be mounted face up thru the ties. A switch can also be used in series to lock out the Mag Relay (SW) so it is not actavated every time an engine goes over it. You might want to place the magnet on the action car to acat. it when it is in place. The type magnet IMHO to use is the Rare Earth type they are thin but very powerful. They may be too strong, try the ferrous strip type that you can cutalso. As I have not tryed this it would be a trial and error tyhng Mike S

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11091	From: judy messinger	Date: 1/12/2001
Subject: Transformer problems-Thanks!

Thanks to all who wrote in regarding my transformer question. I, now, understand how that type transformer (15, 16-B) is supposed to work. I have two 16-B transformers. One, I have had for about 15 years. The other was recently acquired. The more recent one maintains 5 or 6 volts at zero throttle setting. The one I have had for 15 years does not. I assumed the recent one was at fault. Turns out the problem is with my first one. "I see." Said the blind man. . . Thank you, once more, for the good advice. Joe Messinger _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11092	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/12/2001
Subject: Re: Track Trip Replacement

See my photos of homemade track trips on Paul Yorke's website. The pictures of the actuators are at: http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/feature/actuator.htm "Novak, William" wrote: > > I'm considering using Gargraves track when I construct my new layout. This > requires, however, having to splice in AF track to use AF track trips to > operate semaphores and switches. Is anyone aware of substitutes for the AF > track trip that I could easily use with Gargraves track? I'd like to come > up with a fool proof device that is less troublesome than the AF track trip > (i.e., no sticking, consistently works with all engine sizes and weights, > etc.). I have some information on Hall sensors, a device that can sense > small magnetic currents and then activate an electronic circuit. It might > be possible to mount such a device on the ties of the Gargraves track and > glue permanent magnets on the bottom of the engines to activate it. Also, > if anyone is familiar with the Hall sensors, would just the magnetic field > currents in an AF engine be strong enough to activate the sensor when an > engine passes over it? Remember, I just want to activate a circuit briefly > as a train passes. (I've already come up with an electronic infrared device > to operate the AF crossing gate for the whole length of a train.) Any and > all help would be greatly appreciated. > > Bill Novak > Arlington, VA > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11093	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/12/2001
Subject: Re: Track Trip Replacement

I didn't read your message thoroughly enough. For current drawing relay type of Flyer Actuator (697 I think): If you want the kind of trips that operate crossing gates you can use the Flyer ones with Gargraves. Simply put the gaps in the Gargraves to create a short block instead of using Flyer fiber pins. Then solder wires from both sides of a gap to the track actuator terminals that span the gap on to the rails. It's not necessary to actially clamp the actuator to the track because the solder makes the contact. I used this to actuate a crossing gate whenever the engine was in the block. If you mean the weight actuated type then the above won't work. Chuck Smith wrote: > > See my photos of homemade track trips on Paul Yorke's website. > The pictures of the actuators are at: > http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/feature/actuator.htm > > "Novak, William" wrote: > > > > I'm considering using Gargraves track when I construct my new layout. This > > requires, however, having to splice in AF track to use AF track trips to > > operate semaphores and switches. Is anyone aware of substitutes for the AF > > track trip that I could easily use with Gargraves track? I'd like to come > > up with a fool proof device that is less troublesome than the AF track trip > > (i.e., no sticking, consistently works with all engine sizes and weights, > > etc.). I have some information on Hall sensors, a device that can sense > > small magnetic currents and then activate an electronic circuit. It might > > be possible to mount such a device on the ties of the Gargraves track and > > glue permanent magnets on the bottom of the engines to activate it. Also, > > if anyone is familiar with the Hall sensors, would just the magnetic field > > currents in an AF engine be strong enough to activate the sensor when an > > engine passes over it? Remember, I just want to activate a circuit briefly > > as a train passes. (I've already come up with an electronic infrared device > > to operate the AF crossing gate for the whole length of a train.) Any and > > all help would be greatly appreciated. > > > > Bill Novak > > Arlington, VA > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > -- > Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) > and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith > > "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool > than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11094	From: S-Trains@egroups.com	Date: 1/12/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, January 14, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11095	From: John	Date: 1/12/2001
Subject: continuous whistle on 312 tender please help

Hi all I have a #312 loco and whistling Tender I am using a Tech 11 Transformer with the whistle and Direction switch. when I went to run my a/c Loco imagine my disapointment when my tender would not stop whistling as they have the weirdest whistle ! :) I would like to shut the whistle down permanetly any idea how to shut off this whistle without losing my forward and reverse action? any help would be appreciated is there a wire I could just Disconnect in the Tender if so which one do I just cut a wire if so can you tell me how to find the right one? Thanks Guys and Gals this a my favorite list and it been a godsend in the learning end. John <jde> jde@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11096	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 1/13/2001
Subject: NORTH PENN & NESHAMINY VALLEY WEBSITES

You can see our current North Penn S Gaugers newsletter, thanks to Curt Johnson, at http://members.nbci.com/northpenn_s/main.html He also built the Neshaminy Valley American Flyer club website at: http://www.geocities.com/nvafc/ Staying on the NPSG branchline of NASG track, Glenn [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11097	From: busyboy	Date: 1/13/2001
Subject: 312AW

John: If I understand your note, you have a 312AW with a working whistle and you want to disable it because you are operating on DC. Of course you can open the tender and disconnect the wire to the whistle relay. Or you could reserve this engine for AC operation. I want to point out to you that a working 312AW is one of the most desirable of Flyer engines and is sought after by collectors, especially with the original controller. If yours is in really good shape you could unload it for a nice price and buy a regular 312 with no whistle and money to spare. There are sometimes more solutions to a problem than you can imagine. Clear on the hanger, Chris Zizzo PLEASE TAKE NOTE: I have a new e-mail address. It is busyboy@... Note there is NO hyphen between "busy" and "boy" and the service has changed. Please update your address books. My old address busy-boy@... will expire on January 15, 2001 Until that date, I will receive mail addressed either way. Thanks, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11098	From: Anita and Phil Johnson	Date: 1/13/2001
Subject: 322 Hudson Loose Wheel

One of the drive wheels on the gear shaft of my Hudson is now loose. I tried some "super glue" but it only held for a couple of hours of running. The guys on this list are the experts, anyone have a permenant fix for this problem? Also, how are the new s-track switches working? Thanks for the help. Philip Johnson, Seattle. Back in after 50 years, with my original set.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11099	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 1/13/2001
Subject: Re: 322 Hudson Loose Wheel

Phil, Did you make sure all the oil and grease were off the wheels before you super glued the tires? And was the super glue you used a new tube? I sprayed my wheels with a tuner cleaner degreaser without lubrication, let it dry and used a new tube of the gel type super glue on my 336. It has held up very well so far. About 10 hrs of running since I did this. The most important part though is to make sure the wheels are clean and dry before gluing. Hope this helps. Chris Burger [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11100	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 1/13/2001
Subject: [Fwd: [7x10minilathe] Re: Cutting 1/2" Foam (The soft open celled t

I just picked this up from another group I frequent and thought some of you might be interested in these cutters. Roger Petrella Franktown, CO [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11101	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 1/13/2001
Subject: hot wire foam cutter

Well I guess this group is set up to eliminate attachments and forwards. Maybe we should fix that. Anyway, here are the addresses for cutter plans I got from another group I frequent. http://www.techlib.com/hobby/hotwire foam cutter.htm http://www.cix.co.uk/~clee/hot-wire%20foam%20cutter.htm Roger Petrella Franktown, CO [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11102	From: Al Paolozzi	Date: 1/13/2001
Subject: Re: 312AW

Hi Guys, Reading about the 312 AC or AW with the operating whistle? To my knowledge something is wrong with this picture! It was a 314AW with a whistle and relay box, and you are right it is a desirable engine. Nevada Al ----- Original Message ----- From: "busyboy" <busyboy@...> To: "John " <jde@...> Cc: "slist" <S-Trains@egroups.com> Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2001 7:22 AM Subject: [S-Trains] 312AW > John: > If I understand your note, you have a 312AW with a working whistle and you > want to disable it because you are operating on DC. > > Of course you can open the tender and disconnect the wire to the whistle > relay. > Or you could reserve this engine for AC operation. > > I want to point out to you that a working 312AW is one of the most desirable > of Flyer engines and is sought after by collectors, especially with the > original controller. If yours is in really good shape you could unload it > for a nice price and buy a regular 312 with no whistle and money to spare. > > There are sometimes more solutions to a problem than you can imagine. > > Clear on the hanger, > Chris Zizzo > > > PLEASE TAKE NOTE: > I have a new e-mail address. It is > busyboy@... > Note there is NO hyphen between "busy" and "boy" > and the service has changed. > Please update your address books. My old address > busy-boy@... will expire on January 15, 2001 > Until that date, I will receive mail addressed either way. > Thanks, > Chris Zizzo > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11103	From: Dick Kuepper	Date: 1/13/2001
Subject: Routing Homasote

I am using Gargraves track w/ AF switches and have been routing out the homasote tabletop for the switches. My router (an old Rockwell) screeches like a banshee, and homasote dust flies everywhere. Are newer routers quieter, and would one with a lower speed setting make less mess? I hate to spend the $ on a new one and find out it doesn't help. Or does someone have a better way (I tried chisels - too uneven). Thanks for your input. Dick [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11104	From: busyboy	Date: 1/13/2001
Subject: Re: 312AW

Boys, boys: Calm down! John asked about a 312 with whistle so I was just following suit. My error. 314 AW not 312 AW. Besides, if he really DID have a 312 AW, that would be a rare item indeed, now wouldn't it? Clear on the hanger, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11105	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 1/13/2001
Subject: 322 Hudson loose wheel

If the wheel is loose on the axle, that is one thing. If the tire is loose from the wheel core, that is another. Which is it? Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11106	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 1/13/2001
Subject: Unscheduled Chat Tonight

If you are available tonight, I hope you will join me for an unscheduled S chat. 8pm EST at http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains If you are not already a member of this club , drop by early and join. We had a great time last sunday night. About 18 folks came by during the course of the evening. At one point we had 14 people logged on at once. We use the 'text' chat mode because it is more reliable when you have more than 3 or 4 chatters. The subjects are a bit more lively than the normal egroups threads. Sunday night is the scheduled meeting, but I will be at an Arlo Guthrie concert tomorrow night. Tonight might be a good opportunity to get your feet wet for some of you first timers. Hope to see you there.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11107	From: Doug	Date: 1/13/2001
Subject: Trains shows

Hi all, Is there a website that lists the local and national train show?? Doug

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11108	From: Dick Kuepper	Date: 1/13/2001
Subject: ebay shenanigans

Here's a seller that split the controller from a pair of 720A switches and has bids totaling $80 (by the same person)!! http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=537896558 http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=537908862 Nuts! Dick [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11109	From: joe messinger	Date: 1/13/2001
Subject: Loose drive wheel

Phil, In reading your question, I assume you mean that the drive wheel center is slipping on the axel and not on the tire or insulator. If this is the case, I've had some luck at fixing this problem by using a, small, cold chisel to refresh the spline like ridges on the end of the axel. If these are okay but the wheel center is worn oversize, you may need to replace the center. I have rebored worn centers to oversize and pressed in a bushing with the correct hole size for the axel. In order to do this, you'll need a good drill press, a micrometer or dial caliper, and the right material for the bushing. Some knowledge of machine work may be needed also. The only other, lasting cure for the problem (that I know of) is to replace the axel or (maybe) both the axel and the wheel center. Finally, if you try any or all of the above, you'll need to "quarter" the drive wheel(s) or all Hell will break loose when you fire up your loco. Hope this helps. Joe M. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11110	From: David Garber	Date: 1/13/2001
Subject: ebay shenanigans

In this case, I think the E-Bay selleris correct in splitting the two items. The controller looks like a non self centering type that can only be used with an early type 720 switch. The switches are a later type 720A that needs a self centering controller or the coils will burn out. Dave Garber

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11111	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 1/13/2001
Subject: 322 Hudson loose wheel

I have had good luck replacing loose drive wheels using steel filled epoxy. There's gotta be a post on this in the archives. LOOSE WHEEL - Remove all rods. - Remove loose wheel and clean and degrease splined area of axle and wheel hole and surrounding area. ~91% Isopropyl alcohol is ok for this. Clean axle splines with a wire brush. -Push a file into axle splines to try to raise some metal. Cut many gouges into the wheel hole with the tip of a needle file, also to raise metal, and give the epoxy something to grab. -Punch a hole in the center of a small (1"x2")piece of index card; cut a slit from the hole to the edge with a sharp knife. This piece of card is to catch excess epoxy in back of the wheel, before the stuff can get into the alxe hole. It is to be torn away after glueing -- hence the slit. -Position a make up mirror on the far side of the chassis. Place the small piece of card on the axle and then finger press the loose wheel part way into place. The drive wheels must be quartered correctly. All the wheels on one side of the loco must be 88 degrees ahead of all the wheels on the other side, or the rods will jam the wheels.Position the loose wheel so that it is correctly lined up with the other wheels on the loco. Take your time and get it right. The makeup mirror allows you to see both sides of the chassis at once. -Mix up a small amount of steel filled epoxy and apply it to the splined area of the axle and the unfilled part of the wheel hole with a toothpick. Work it in well. -Push the loose wheel into final position on the axle with a c clamp or vise. -When the epoxy begins to set (2 min or so), yank out the little piece of card. If there's a drop of epoxy on the outer end of the axle, wipe it off. -you can apply mild heat, up to 150 degrees F , to the joint with a lamp for an hour or 2 while the epoxy is curing. Let the epoxy cure overnight. -If the wheel isn't quartered properly, pul it off with a wheel puller, remove the epoxy with a wire brush, etc, and redo the process. LOOSE TIRE For loose tires, i recommend Slo Zap adhesive. This has two advantages over crazy glue :it fills gaps and doesn't set instantly. Pull a loose tire all the way inward toward the chassis, clean out both sides of the joint with q-tips, alcohol, fantastik, or whatever, apply Slo Zap with a toothpick, and pry the tire into place with a flat tipped screwdriver. Now here's the key: while the zap hasn't set yet, turn the chassis upside down and finger spin or run the motor so the wheel turns: this makes it easy to see any shimmy in the tire and correct it so the tire is straight. If you don't get this right the loco will wobble down the track like a pregnant duck. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11112	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 1/13/2001
Subject: Track Trip Replacement

I suggest you check out the Dallee Electronics track trips. They are a little expensive but very reliable. They might be the best solution for you. Tom jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11113	From: Joseph Haughney	Date: 1/13/2001
Subject: Showcase Switches

Yo, I finally got my my Showcase switches and they work might fine as long as you make sure that the couplers dont droop. Had some problems with some AM heavyweights and some old replacement knuckle coupers derailing until they were moved up. Anyway, I know that Showcase is planning to add crossover and bumpers according to their catalogue but my problem is accessories. I am looking at keeping Flyer track in my yard so that I can run my accessories in most cases and in some cases just soldering the wire to the showcase track where I can get away with it (e.g. dont melt anything or the trip is not a mechanical one.) Anyone got any ideas on how to handle AF accessories with Showcase track yet or experiemented and failed. Either results would be appreciated. Regads, Joe Haughney

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11114	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 1/14/2001
Subject: Re: [[S-Trains] Trains shows]

Doug, On my links page http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/links/links.htm there is a link for GATS, TCA, Greenberg , Great Scale, TRAINSHOWS, just to name a few. Paul Yorke http://www.S-Trains.com Model Trains / 3D Photography / Computer Support ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://home.netscape.com/webmail

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11115	From: John	Date: 1/14/2001
Subject: Sorry Sorry re 312 whistle

Hi guys ; Oh boy I really did it this tyme sorry sorry I hit the wrong diget Its a Loco and tender # 315 NOT a #3-->12 Boy I sure messed up! Anyways I will apply the great advice I got I think I like the idea of the Tranny is sending out a DC kick, and as long as that happens the whistle will activate not as loud as getting the main shot just enough to blow. I really don't want to start chopping the innards of my #315 Whistling Tender! I'm going to try a different Tranny! I have a [L] Trainmaster 150 Watter 4 train control no whistle control just pure AC Power and lots of that :} a big Clydesdale of a Tranny but just great for a Powerhouse. Thanks again for the help you guys have been just Great and real sorry about the wrong diget [I wish I had been right aye!] John [Back to my layout] P.S Ill let youall know how I make out with the new/old 150 watter Tranny with #315 Whistling tender. jde@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11116	From: busyboy	Date: 1/14/2001
Subject: American Flyer Smoke Repair Kits W/ Display

Hi: Recently, you paid $87.98 for a card of Gilbert smoke unit repair kits on e-Bay. American Flyer Smoke Repair Kits W/ Display Item #530915929 There was some substantial discussion about this item on Paul Yorke's S-Trains Mail List. (If your interest is in Flyer and S-Gauge I heartily suggest you join the list. It can be a terrific source of information and we would welcome your contributions. Go to http://www.egroups.com/group/S-Trains and click on "subscribe".) I am writing to ask if you received the item and what your evaluation is of it now that it is in your possession. Concerns expressed by members of the list included: 1.) Zip-Lock bags being too new for Gilbert. Paper manila style envelopes were the company's package of choice. 2.) The snowy white wick material seemed different from the yellowish Gilbert stock. 3.) It is believed that Gilbert never sold loose material but instead marketed a complete replacement kit including the wire and wick all assembled and ready to install. (Heating element & Plate Assembly XA10523 and for the later units, part number XA14A208. These units will have the top plate and gasket with element and wick already installed.) What is your evaluation of the item now that you have it? Do you believe this to be the genuine article, possibly just rebagged? Are there any part numbers? Do those enclosed instruction sheets appear to be original Gilbert? Many very curious minds would like to know! Cordially, Chris Zizzo PLEASE TAKE NOTE: I have a new e-mail address. It is busyboy@... Note there is NO hyphen between "busy" and "boy" and the service has changed. Please update your address books. My old address busy-boy@... will expire on January 15, 2001 Until that date, I will receive mail addressed either way. Thanks, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11117	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/14/2001
Subject: Re: ebay shenanigans

Dick, Actually the two items don't go together. The controller he sold fits only they '46 early 720 switches with a built in coil disconnect switch. The controller constantly sends power to the switch coil, but there is a set of points activated by the poiint throw arm that disconnects the coil near the end of the throw. It relies on good power to the switch to throw it fast enough to close the points before the power is cut off. Unfortunately, it often only throws part way and then disconnects the coil. You can't throw it back to try again, as it is then in "no power land" and you have to manually throw the sliding lever (you can't move the points themselves in this design). ACG soon figured out this problem, and created the 720A switch and controller that eliminated the complex internal power points by making the controller a momentary on switch---but that also created the ability for an inexperienced operator to burn out his switch coils by laying on the controller handle too long. Win some, loose some! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11118	From: Toyguy5344@aol.com	Date: 1/14/2001
Subject: Fwd: Ives parts(and more)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11119	From: donabrams	Date: 1/14/2001
Subject: Loose drivers

All, I haven't seen this solution posted yet -- it's how I fix them. Remove the loose driver. Place it on the flat anvil part of your bench vise. Take a hammer and hit the center metal part of the driver. Use your best judgement here as to how hard or how many times. The metal is maleable enough to reduce the size of the hole so that it will grab the axle good and tight when requartered and pressed back on. I've had no repeat failures. Don

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11120	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 1/14/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 875

In a message dated 01/14/2001 5:12:41 AM Mountain Standard Time, S-Trains@egroups.com writes: > One of the drive wheels on the gear shaft of my Hudson is now loose. I > tried some "super glue" but it only held for a couple of hours of > running. The guys on this list are the experts, anyone have a permanent > fix for this problem? Also, how are the new s-track switches working? > Thanks for the help. > > Philip Johnson, Seattle. Back in after 50 years, with my original set. > > > > Run a 1/8" tap through the wheel hub and it will re-spine itself when you put it back on. Make sure you have it quartered correctly. Make sure the wheel and axle are perfectly free of grease/oil (fingernail polish remover and a Q-tip works good) use a drop of super glue (gel type) now and it should last another 30 yrs. I do them all the time like this. Regards....Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11121	From: Dick Kuepper	Date: 1/14/2001
Subject: Routing Homasote

Thanks to everyone for their replies - they were very helpful. Dick [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11122	From: Anita and Phil Johnson	Date: 1/14/2001
Subject: Loose Drivers

Many, many thinks to all those who offered advice and the benefit of their experience with this repair. I don't have the quartering tool yet so didn't want to remove the wheels. I cleaned the wheel hole as best I could to remove the oil and used super glue again. We'll see how long it holds. Meanwhile I have to decide how far into engine repair I want to go. Either I will have to buy all the tools or find a good engine shop. I guess I will have to decide on time priorities. I like operating the system more than maintenance and I'm going to be kicked out of the Rec room in a few weeks. Anyway I really appreciate all the help. This is what the internet is really for. Thanks. Philip Johnson

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11123	From: S-Trains@egroups.com	Date: 1/14/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, January 14, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11124	From: Jim Carnes	Date: 1/14/2001
Subject: Re: ebay shenanigans

The seller had four items offered: 1) a pair of 720 switches with no controller, 2) a pair of 720A switches with no controller, 3) a 720 controller, and 4) a 720A controller. One person bought the 720 controller and the 720A switches for over $80! A second person bought the 720 switches for $41! A third person bought the 720A controller for $52! I think the prices they were willing to pay are crazy, but I don't have a problem with a seller offering the switches and controllers seperately. I have a pair of 720 switches without a controller and would like to be able to get a controller by itself. I was interested in the 720 controller until the price went crazy - I am not going to pay those prices. Jim C. David Garber wrote: > In this case, I think the E-Bay selleris correct in splitting the two > items. The controller looks like a non self centering type that can > only be used with an early type 720 switch. The switches are a later > type 720A that needs a self centering controller or the coils will > burn out. Dave Garber > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11125	From: joeawood@aol.com	Date: 1/15/2001
Subject: electronic Talking station

A friend of mine told me that electronic sound generators are available for the talking stations does someone know where these are available from. I have become discouraged with the prices for parts for talking stations. My problem is the shaft is broken where the turntable attaches so I need the shaft, turntable, record and the reproducer, it appears I can buy alot of other toys with the money it will cost to buy these parts. Is anyone interested in the motor and the gears the motor works fine and the gears are in good shape. Also I am still working on the picture of the Atlantics that are double headed. Thanks Joe Anderson

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11126	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 1/15/2001
Subject: WIRING THE LAYOUT FOR THE 314AW

I have a beloved but battered 314AW. She looks sharp with all the original jewels in the markers, but mechanically I need to address a loose wheel and other problems. If I understand correctly, all power to the layout needs to pass through this 314AW Whistle Controller. ( My 314AW controller is a repo made in the original oval shape.) I am concerned that the gauge of wire on these controllers is smaller than what I have used to connect my transformers ( 30B , 19B, and 17B) to the mainline, yard, switches and accessories. I certainly would not want to limit the power. Should I wire an alternate transformer to use just when I run the 314AW? Appreciate any advice on this. Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11127	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 1/15/2001
Subject: Loose Rim/Wheel, eBay controller

Loose rim - - as already recommended be sure clean and grease free. I apply ZapAGap or Future Glue with a Micro brush, to the exposed surface of the white insulator, then lift the metal rim to seat evenly around on white insulalator with two screwdrivers from underneath (gently) or a wheel puller. With the armature removed you can check to see how true the rim is right away. Slower setting glue probably helps, but I can't find any slow set Z-A-G around here. Loose hub - - remove all the way off axle, clean axle and inside surface of hub with 91% pure Isoprophl alcohol, lightly set wheel on axle's end in properly quartered location, "paint" inside surface of hub with ZapAGap (use Microbrush not Q-tip, no fuzz left behind), close vise across hubs and axle to set fully onto axle, be certain to measure correct gauge (distance between wheels, 18.5-18.75 mm back of flange to back of flange). I allow overnight drying just to be sure fully cured. If you can slip the hub back onto the axle real easily with your hand, then other measures recommended work OK. I sometimes find it helps to remove the other side's driver, and swap sides (left driver to the right side, right to the left). Follow the same procedures as above. Quarter one side, thinly coat inside survface of hub with glue, and set with vise. Come back later and do the other. The swapping of sides for the drivers gives them both a "fresher" seat on the axle. You'll probably see that right away when you try to press them on with your hand in their new quarter position. Controllers on eBay - - I agree with the 720 controllers separated from the 720A switches. Used together and I believe you'd burn out the 720A's (no self centering levers). But I forget how the 720 switches were made so that non-centering levers are OK with them - - TJ, I think you once explained this, can you refresh my/our memory? Thanks. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11128	From: TPDavis7@aol.com	Date: 1/15/2001
Subject: Re: electronic Talking station

Try Doug Peck, Portland Hobbies, I believe. Tom Davis [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11129	From: scott griggs	Date: 1/15/2001
Subject: Re: American Flyer Smoke Repair Kits W/ Display

This item was clearly, without a doubt, a fabricated (i.e. non-authentic) Gilbert piece. I have bought smoke unit repair kits identical to these at train shows (and they were not represented as NOS Gilbert production). I'm afraid that if the buyer purchased this item believing that it is ACG original, he or she was duped into paying well over the going rate for smoke unit repair kits. Oh well, there are unscrupulous individuals selling at train shows and hobby shops, too. Scott --- In S-Trains@egroups.com, "busyboy" <busyboy@o...> wrote: > Hi: > Recently, you paid $87.98 for a card of Gilbert smoke unit repair kits on > e-Bay. > American Flyer Smoke Repair Kits W/ Display > Item #530915929 > > There was some substantial discussion about this item on Paul Yorke's > S-Trains Mail List. > (If your interest is in Flyer and S-Gauge I heartily suggest you join the > list. It can be a terrific source of information and we would welcome your > contributions. Go to http://www.egroups.com/group/S-Trains and click on > "subscribe".) > > I am writing to ask if you received the item and what your evaluation is of > it now that it is in your possession. Concerns expressed by members of the > list included: > 1.) Zip-Lock bags being too new for Gilbert. Paper manila style envelopes > were the company's package of choice. > 2.) The snowy white wick material seemed different from the yellowish > Gilbert stock. > 3.) It is believed that Gilbert never sold loose material but instead > marketed a complete replacement kit including the wire and wick all > assembled and ready to install. (Heating element & Plate Assembly XA10523 > and for the later units, part number XA14A208. These units will have the > top plate and gasket with element and wick already installed.) > > What is your evaluation of the item now that you have it? Do you believe > this to be the genuine article, possibly just rebagged? Are there any part > numbers? Do those enclosed instruction sheets appear to be original > Gilbert? Many very curious minds would like to know! > > Cordially, > Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11130	From: Scott Holm	Date: 1/15/2001
Subject: Panel Ammeters

I got the Radio Shack panel ammeter, 0-10 AC amps. It's nice, but the scale is not uniformly graduated. 0-2 amps, which is where most of the action occurs, is crammed into about an 1/8 of an inch at the beginning of the scale. The graduations spread out from 3-10 amps. The result is that the needle is always in just a small area (except when there is a short) and you can't get a very precise reading. I'd have to recommend the 0-5 AC ammeter instead. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11131	From: dhmgt2@aol.com	Date: 1/15/2001
Subject: Digest Number 851

Please change my e-mail address FROM dhmgt2@... TO dhmgt2@.......Thanks

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11132	From: loubaldi@aol.com	Date: 1/15/2001
Subject: Re: electronic Talking station

--- In S-Trains@egroups.com, joeawood@a... wrote: > A friend of mine told me that electronic sound generators are available for > the talking stations does someone know where these are available from. I have > become discouraged with the prices for parts for talking stations. My problem > is the shaft is broken where the turntable attaches so I need the shaft, > turntable, record and the reproducer, it appears I can buy alot of other toys > with the money it will cost to buy these parts. Is anyone interested in the > motor and the gears the motor works fine and the gears are in good shape. > Also I am still working on the picture of the Atlantics that are double > headed. Thanks Joe Anderson Joe, I purchased a solid state unit from Portline Hobbies - (Doug Peck)about year ago. It has the original #755 Mystic Station annoucement on it. Doug also has a variety of other modules to choose from if you want to modernize. After many operations, I'm quite pleased with mine. Lou

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11133	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 1/15/2001
Subject: Routing Homasote

- Greeting`S' - Like Dick Kuepper, I value the ability to make a constant-depth hole with a router. Since the one he mentions "screeches like a banshee," it has a series-wound motor. Happily, these can be coarsely speed- controlled with a variable 120 VAC transformer (Variac, etc.), lamp bulbs of differing wattages wired in series with the router, or a big (10 A or so rating) solid-state controller much like a lamp dimmer. Good luck with it and cheer`S' Rhett

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11134	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 1/15/2001
Subject: Loose wheel on axle

- Greeting`S' - Like Philip Johnson, I have had one wheel loosen on the axle (along with many tires loosen on the wheels). As Chris suggests, I clean away oil, grease, and dirt with a solvent. Since the wheel is loose, it can be removed from the axle for cleaning. Then I used "LocTite" `Stud and Bearing Sealer,' careful to have it contact only the axle and hole of the wheel and careful to get the wheel quartered. That was for or five years ago on a 332 - no problems since. Cheer`S' Rhett

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11135	From: Peck	Date: 1/15/2001
Subject: Re: Talking stations

<A friend of mine told me that electronic sound generators are available for the talking stations does someone know where these are available from.> ****** We USED to offer these. Unfortunately, the appropriate chip used for the recording (made right from the original record) is no longer available, and we have none left in stock. I haven't given up on these, however. I still believe we can get these back into production at the same cost, or less. They were very good sellers for us! <I have become discouraged with the prices for parts for talking stations. My problem is the shaft is broken where the turntable attaches so I need the shaft, turntable, record and the reproducer> *******Obviously, the real expensive part you need is the reproducer. I always tell my customers, "Don't waste your money buying a TS, no matter how cheap it seems to be, if it doesn't have the reproducer." And if you DO get lucky and find a reproducer, expect to pay $50-$75 for it, assuming the owner knows what it is! That's the whole reason we had the solid-state units made. At $60, it was very reasonable, and it fit inside the original TS (or any other building you wanted it in) with no modifications whatsoever! If we're successful in getting these back in production, I'll post it here! Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11136	From: toby_loftus@mentor.com	Date: 1/15/2001
Subject: Installing S-Trax

Hi all, Just received some new S-Trax and am very impressed. Was wondering how people out there have been mounting their S-Trax. The directions say to just put down a line of hot glue under the middle of the track. Does this work well? Any tips? Any alternative techniques to suggest? Thanks, -Toby

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11137	From: David Garber	Date: 1/15/2001
Subject: electronic Talking station

Joe: Do not get rid of the motor and cams. I am not sure if the unit that Doug sells will have the ability to stop-hold-start the train. If not than by matching the excelllent sound with the timing of the cams in the original unit, you can have the best of both worlds. David Garber

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11138	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 1/15/2001
Subject: Electronic Talking Station

I use the PC-board unit from Doug at PortLines. I only wish Doug had recorded a clearer original record. While the less than perfect sound is reminiscent of an original, I've had guest who own originals with the record say theirs sound clearer (less static, and easier to understand what the announcer is saying) than mine. Of course eventually their original stations record will wear out. With Doug's you can play it as often as you want. I tried the speaker and cone Doug provides. It's OK, but I got mine to sound better with a pair of Sport speakers from RShack with an inline diode to suppress any feedback. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11139	From: William H Trefts	Date: 1/15/2001
Subject: Original Packaging materials-rolling stock

Friends, I'm going overboard in "restoring", well, putting in shape, my sisters 48T set. We still have the original boxes that I need to reglue the seams on, but as I recall, each car was wrapped in tissue paper, then put in each box. If correct, I'd like to get some "acid-free" tissue paper, cut it to original size, and rewrap her cars. A little fanatical, but it is fun! The cars in this set are the 633 boxcar, 631 gondola and the 630 caboose. After surviving each of our childhoods, they aren't in great shape, but I'd still like to do it right. BTW, the set box was lost to water years ago. The diecast 350 is also showing decay. But it currently runs great! I currently roll the engine in cardboard, similar to original, but not as soft. Did the set box include a box that the engine and roll were stored in. That I don't remember. For the boxes, what is a recommended procedure for securing loose or torn flaps? Thanks again! Bill Trefts wmhtreftsv@... ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11140	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 1/15/2001
Subject: Re: Showcase Switches

Dear Joe, One of our customers was able to modify a 10" straight section for use with a AF mail hook. I seemed to have lost the written commentary and I want our web master to post the photos on our web page. I am including these to you, but I know that they will be stripped for the rest of the list. Don P.S. I have a few mor jpegs of the modfications Joseph Haughney wrote: > Yo, > I finally got my my Showcase switches and they work might fine as long > as you make sure that the couplers dont droop. Had some problems with > some AM heavyweights and some old replacement knuckle coupers derailing > until they were moved up. > > Anyway, I know that Showcase is planning to add crossover and bumpers > according to their catalogue but my problem is accessories. I am looking > at keeping Flyer track in my yard so that I can run my accessories in > most cases and in some cases just soldering the wire to the showcase > track where I can get away with it (e.g. dont melt anything or the trip > is not a mechanical one.) Anyone got any ideas on how to handle AF > accessories with Showcase track yet or experiemented and failed. Either > results would be appreciated. > > Regads, > Joe Haughney > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 40' Billboard Reefers are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11141	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/15/2001
Subject: Re: WIRING THE LAYOUT FOR THE 314AW

I have the other whistle and horn controllers for which all power TO THE TRACK is supposed to pass through the controller only. I wire everything other than track (all switchews and accessories) without regard to the controller and have minimal problems. I say minimal rather than no problems because some of the Flyer diesels are awful ampere hogs, especially when they could use a rebushing job. I also use separate transformers for most all of my switches, lights and accessories. For running a train alone about 75-100 watts seems more than adequate. I power 2 loops plus a few accessories from an old 12B dual that has 250 watts total output. A third loop uses a 75 watter. kite1@... wrote: > > I have a beloved but battered 314AW. She looks sharp with all the > original jewels in the markers, but mechanically I need to address a > loose wheel and other problems. If I understand correctly, all power to > the layout needs to pass through this 314AW Whistle Controller. ( My > 314AW controller is a repo made in the original oval shape.) I am > concerned that the gauge of wire on these controllers is smaller than > what I have used to connect my transformers ( 30B , 19B, and 17B) to the > mainline, yard, switches and accessories. I certainly would not want to > limit the power. Should I wire an alternate transformer to use just > when I run the 314AW? > Appreciate any advice on this. Michael > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11142	From: loubaldi@aol.com	Date: 1/15/2001
Subject: Loose Wheels

I have found Devcon makes an excellent product for repairing loose 'AF' drive wheels. I used this product to repair a loose wheel on a '312' engine last year. This product is also used by the Utility I work for and is specifically made for these types of repair. It is similiar to Loctite but rated better. It comes in two strengths. Superlock '2609' General Purpose and Superlock '2680' High Strength. Their web site is listed below. http://www.devcon.com/sitemapframe.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11143	From: Eugene Steffan	Date: 1/15/2001
Subject: Slightly off-topic

I appologize in advance for mentioning the "L" word, but I hope someone can be of help. I just came across a Lionel No. 8 engine, pass car and observation car, all in VG to E condition. I think they are Std. gauge. I would like to know an approx. value for the set. I'm not into the "L" stuff and don't have the appropriate Greenburg resources. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. Gene

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11144	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/15/2001
Subject: Re: Slightly off-topic

My guide, from 1998 shows a #8 as an 0-4-0 made from 25-32, Standard Gauge, in Ex for $230. You'll have to look on the bottom of the cars and hopefully find rubber-stamped car numbers. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11145	From: jdefelice@nni.com	Date: 1/16/2001
Subject: Molding parts

Hi.... Has anyone tried recently to mold any replacement parts? I was trying to make a mold of a boiler front using Tom Barkers method making the mold of silicon caulk in many thin layers, but I had a problem getting the mold off the original....... I used wax as he wrote in the repair book, but I'm thinking in the 20+ years since he wrote it, the composistion of the caulk & the wax have changed...... I had sucess many years ago using a molding plaster & epoxy resin that was used in the making of dentures.... Any ideas? I know that almost any part is available from parts shops,,, But I would like to try and make them myself Thanks John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11146	From: jdefelice@nni.com	Date: 1/16/2001
Subject: Molding parts

Hi.... Has anyone tried recently to mold any replacement parts? I was trying to make a mold of a boiler front using Tom Barkers method making the mold of silicon caulk in many thin layers, but I had a problem getting the mold off the original....... I used wax as he wrote in the repair book, but I'm thinking in the 20+ years since he wrote it, the composistion of the caulk & the wax have changed...... I had sucess many years ago using a molding plaster & epoxy resin that was used in the making of dentures.... Any ideas? I know that almost any part is available from parts shops,,, But I would like to try and make them myself Thanks John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11147	From: Robert Hannon	Date: 1/16/2001
Subject: A.C. Gilbert S-Gauge Electrical Repair SURVEY

For the last few years, I have experienced an increasing demand (via telephone and E-Mail) for information on diagnosing and repairing armature, field and coil problems. Questions have ranged from "What's your mailing address?" to "What reading should I get on my meter?" to "What gauge wire should I use and where can I get some?" The last two types of queries have led me to post this "survey", which consists of a four-part question: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15 January 2001 If a "book" were to be published which provided detailed diagnostic and repair specifications for most, if not all, A.C. Gilbert S-Gauge electrical component(s): 1. Would you buy it? (Yes or No) 2. Would you use it to diagnose problems? (Yes or No) 3. Would you use it to perform a repair (repair/rewind it yourself)? (Yes or No) 4. Should the book be: a. A Web-based publication b. A traditional hard-copy publication. c. Both. d. None of the above (it shouldn't be published because there is no interest in this kind of information). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Your PERSONAL opinion is important !!! Even if, ESPECIALLY IF, your answer is a resounding NO! to all the questions. Reply either on the list or off the list (whichever you prefer). Feel free to pass this questionnaire on to friends/acquaintances who are not on the list (or don't have internet access), and include their opinions in your reply. This message will be posted one more time this week. In two weeks, I will post a tally back to the list (and/or individually) detailing the results of the "survey". Thanks! Bob Hannon !!!REWINDING!!!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11148	From: Dwight Lehnhoff	Date: 1/16/2001
Subject: survey

Yes Yes Yes Both Dwight Lehnhoff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11149	From: Robert Wight	Date: 1/16/2001
Subject: Re: A.C. Gilbert S-Gauge Electrical Repair SURVEY

Bob; On sundays chat we spoke of armeture and field gauges and I had mentioned that you know this becuse when you did a rewind for me you gave me that info which at this moment is packed away. I have allso observed and some had agreed with me that Barkers book is very good but there is alot of wrong info. One of the things was the gauge wiring is different then I beleave what you use and allso I mentioned that his wireing diagrams for the tender units are alot to be desired. Tom Jarcho did a articule on this and man is it alot better and more clearer to use and understand. I have my copy of Toms diagram taped permanently in my repair manuel. Bob the answer to the servay is below but I know it gets rather old but could you be so kind to post the proper field and armature wire gauge on the list. Then we can get this in our notes. Thank you Bob. answers 1. yes 2. yes 3. yes and no. If no I would have you do. 4, A or C "A" works for me but maybe someone else would like a hard copy. I quess it depends on how many pages this would be. Happy Railroading Bob Wight Robert Hannon <hannon@...> wrote: For the last few years, I have experienced an increasing demand (via telephone and E-Mail) for information on diagnosing and repairing armature, field and coil problems. Questions have ranged from "What's your mailing address?" to "What reading should I get on my meter?" to "What gauge wire should I use and where can I get some?" The last two types of queries have led me to post this "survey", which consists of a four-part question: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15 January 2001 If a "book" were to be published which provided detailed diagnostic and repair specifications for most, if not all, A.C. Gilbert S-Gauge electrical component(s): 1. Would you buy it? (Yes or No) 2. Would you use it to diagnose problems? (Yes or No) 3. Would you use it to perform a repair (repair/rewind it yourself)? (Yes or No) 4. Should the book be: a. A Web-based publication b. A traditional hard-copy publication. c. Both. d. None of the above (it shouldn't be published because there is no interest in this kind of information). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Your PERSONAL opinion is important !!! Even if, ESPECIALLY IF, your answer is a resounding NO! to all the questions. Reply either on the list or off the list (whichever you prefer). Feel free to pass this questionnaire on to friends/acquaintances who are not on the list (or don't have internet access), and include their opinions in your reply. This message will be posted one more time this week. In two weeks, I will post a tally back to the list (and/or individually) detailing the results of the "survey". Thanks! Bob Hannon !!!REWINDING!!! S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Personal Address - Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11150	From: Neil Trump	Date: 1/16/2001
Subject: A 360 or a 21927?

This seller thinks it is a 360, I'm pretty sure it is a 21927. I emailed the seller to let him know and he said he would update his site to reflect, I'm still waiting. Neil T. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11151	From: Neil Trump	Date: 1/16/2001
Subject: A 360 or a 21927?

This seller thinks it is a 360, I'm pretty sure it is a 21927. I emailed the seller to let him know and he said he would update his site to reflect, I'm still waiting. Not sure if first email got through, so resending. Neil T. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11152	From: Neil Trump	Date: 1/16/2001
Subject: Address for the 360/21927

Of course, it does help to send the address of it!! http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=542070382 Neil T [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11153	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 1/16/2001
Subject: mat for cattle car

If the material under the cows is in good condition, they'll moooove (aaargh) on just about anything with a textured finish. Fine grit sand paper or emory paper work, but aren't exactly like the coarse construction paper kind of original material. The material under the cows can be mohair (like the original) or ShureLine paint pad material, cut at about a 24 degree off-grain diagonal and applied with a good multipurpose adhesive. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11154	From: William H Trefts	Date: 1/16/2001
Subject: Bob Hannon Tech Book Survey reply

1. Yes. (Price would be a factor.) 2. Yes 3. Yes 4. Both ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11155	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/16/2001
Subject: Re: Molding parts

I had one reasonably good result many years ago making a tank dome top using a clear silicone as a mold. Can't remember more. jdefelice@... wrote: > > Hi.... > Has anyone tried recently to mold any replacement parts? I was trying > to make a mold of a boiler front using Tom Barkers method making the > mold of silicon caulk in many thin layers, but I had a problem > getting the mold off the original....... I used wax as he wrote in > the repair book, but I'm thinking in the 20+ years since he wrote it, > the composistion of the caulk & the wax have changed...... I had > sucess many years ago using a molding plaster & epoxy resin that was > used in the making of dentures.... > Any ideas? > I know that almost any part is available from parts shops,,, But I > would like to try and make them myself > Thanks > John > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11156	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/16/2001
Subject: Re: Address for the 360/21927

Agreed, Definately NOT a 360! Shell is wrong for a 360, and it has the late 2-step reverse unit. Think you hit it right! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11157	From: Al	Date: 1/16/2001
Subject: Uploaded photos

For those who are interested in see photos of the 283-282 Double Header, click on the link below. I have uploaded 4 photos of how the added coupler on the 283 looks. http://www.egroups.com/files/S-Trains/ I will add drawings of how this was accomplished later. Al

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11158	From: Jeff	Date: 1/16/2001
Subject: Ebay 21927

Is that 21927 on ebay the pikemaster era SF alco or is it too stripped to tell? Jeff T.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11159	From: Victor Bereskin	Date: 1/16/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 877

If you look at the underside of a section os S-Trax you may find a small hollow cylinder sticking up at each end. If you use a small drill (i find that a #52 works well) and drill on through these, you will end up with a hole centered in a tie near each end of the section. A 3/4" long brass-plated flat headed brad (sometimes called an escutheon pin) will fit into this hole nicely and can be used to attach the trach to its underlayment. Use a nail set when driving the brad in so that the hammer doesn't damage the rails. The brass finish will tarnish to a color that blends closely into the tie. ----- Original Message ----- > Message: 8 > Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 17:39:48 -0000 > From: toby_loftus@... > Subject: Installing S-Trax > > Hi all, > > Just received some new S-Trax and am very impressed. Was wondering > how people out there have been mounting their S-Trax. The directions > say to just put down a line of hot glue under the middle of the > track. Does this work well? Any tips? Any alternative techniques > to suggest? > > Thanks, > -Toby >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11160	From: Peck	Date: 1/16/2001
Subject: Re: - Original Packaging materials-rolling stock

<<I'm going overboard in "restoring", well, putting in shape, my sisters 48T set. We still have the original boxes that I need to reglue the seams on, but as I recall, each car was wrapped in tissue paper, then put in each box. If correct, I'd like to get some "acid-free" tissue paper, cut it to original size, and rewrap her cars. A little fanatical, but it is fun! The cars in this set are the 633 boxcar, 631 gondola and the 630 caboose. After surviving each of our childhoods, they aren't in great shape, but I'd still like to do it right. BTW, the set box was lost to water years ago. >> Want a repro set box, with lettering and color label just like the original????? We offer them for many sets, including the 48T. Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11161	From: Peck	Date: 1/16/2001
Subject: Re: TS

<<Do not get rid of the motor and cams. I am not sure if the unit that Doug sells will have the ability to stop-hold-start the train. If not than by matching the excelllent sound with the timing of the cams in the original unit, you can have the best of both worlds. >> Dave is correct....our unit is the recording ONLY. But if you place it inside the original talking station and wire the station mechanism and the sound unit together (in parallel), the cam mechanism will continue to interrupt train motion even though the sound isn't coming from the record!!!!!! Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11162	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/16/2001
Subject: Re: Ebay 21927

Jeff, It looks like two holes at each ladder site, so that would be pre-pikemaster, I think. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11163	From: loubaldi@aol.com	Date: 1/16/2001
Subject: Re: Molding parts

--- In S-Trains@egroups.com, jdefelice@n... wrote: > Hi.... > Has anyone tried recently to mold any replacement parts? I was trying > to make a mold of a boiler front using Tom Barkers method making the > mold of silicon caulk in many thin layers, but I had a problem > getting the mold off the original....... I used wax as he wrote in > the repair book, but I'm thinking in the 20+ years since he wrote it, > the composistion of the caulk & the wax have changed...... I had > sucess many years ago using a molding plaster & epoxy resin that was > used in the making of dentures.... > Any ideas? > I know that almost any part is available from parts shops,,, But I > would like to try and make them myself > Thanks > John John, Micro-Mark lists several products in their catalog for making molds. These include both silicone and latex based rubber products. I haven't used the products myself but they are listed on pages 48 through 52 in their fall catalog. They also list their web site as: www.micromark.com Lou

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11164	From: bilfrazier@aol.com	Date: 1/16/2001
Subject: Re: Diagnostic & Repair...

1 Yes 2 Yes 3 Yes 4 Either or both Bill Frazier In a message dated 1/16/01 12:00:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, S-Trains@egroups.com writes: > 15 January 2001 > > If a "book" were to be published which provided > detailed diagnostic and repair specifications for most, > if not all, A.C. Gilbert S-Gauge electrical component(s): > > 1. Would you buy it? (Yes or No) > 2. Would you use it to diagnose problems? (Yes or No) > 3. Would you use it to perform a repair > (repair/rewind it yourself)? (Yes or No) > 4. Should the book be: > a. A Web-based publication > b. A traditional hard-copy publication. > c. Both. > d. None of the above (it shouldn't be published > because there is no interest in this kind of information). > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Your PERSONAL opinion is important !!! Even if, ESPECIALLY IF, your > answer is a resounding NO! to all the questions. > > Reply either on the list or off the list (whichever you prefer). Feel > free to > pass this questionnaire on to friends/acquaintances who are not on the list > (or don't have internet access), and include their opinions in your reply. > > This message will be posted one more time this week. In two weeks, I will > post a tally back to the list (and/or individually) detailing the > results of the > "survey". > > Thanks! > > Bob Hannon > !!!REWINDING!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11165	From: John	Date: 1/17/2001
Subject: please help re DC radio shack rectifier?

Hi Guys & Gals; Well here I am up north in the ten years behind country :} I am really stuck this tyme I went to our local Radio Shack to buy 6 piv 50 [4 amp/50 volt PIV ] and they don't carry them anymore as I have converted 6 of my loco's over to DC to complete the transition I need a half dozen of the PIV's #276-1146. Also I need the Radio Shack's 6 amp bridge rectifier full wave solid state device #276-1180 and the double pole throw switch? Doug Peck Please note :if you read this letter I would appreciate it if you could supply me with the above if you have them in stock? Thanks for the listen much appreciated Oh i tried my clydesdale hefty Tranny and the problem is solved re the whistle blowing on my AC Track The guys are right again about what type of tranny to use and what not to use thanks Guys John De jde@... 7 7

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11166	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/17/2001
Subject: Re: please help re DC radio shack rectifier?

I have used a duke's mixture of rectifiers over the years. Last time it happened to be a RS#276-1146 (found the package with Lord knows what rectifier stored in it) but I wouldn't hesitate to use any with an adequate ampere rating. Generally I go into Radio Shack and buy the smallest one they have in stock that's at least about 4 amps. Doesn't seem to be a fussy requirement. One caveat: at one time, comverting a friends diesel to DC, we installed a 100PIV rectifier and the top speed was sluggish. We either used a lesser PIV rating or changed from armature to field across the rectifier, can't remember which. However, with lower PIV ratings up to that time I never had that problem. John wrote: > > Hi Guys & Gals; > Well here I am up north in the ten years behind country :} > I am really stuck this tyme I went to our local Radio Shack > to buy 6 piv 50 [4 amp/50 volt PIV ] and they don't carry them > anymore as I have converted 6 of my loco's over to DC to complete > the transition I need a half dozen of the PIV's #276-1146. > > Also I need the Radio Shack's 6 amp bridge rectifier full wave > solid state device #276-1180 and the double pole throw switch? > > Doug Peck Please note :if you read this letter I would appreciate it > if you could supply me with the above if you have them in stock? > > Thanks for the listen much appreciated Oh i tried my clydesdale > hefty Tranny and the problem is solved re the whistle blowing > on my AC Track The guys are right again about what type of tranny to > use and what not to use thanks Guys John De > > jde@... > > > 7 > > 7 > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11167	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 1/17/2001
Subject: Re: eBay 360/21927

> I saw this. Definately not a 360. Wrong chassis, wrong reverse unit, only one > power truck. Real bad paint job! :-)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11168	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 1/17/2001
Subject: Re: please help re DC radio shack rectifier?

The PIV rating (peak inverse voltage) would not change how your loco runs. You can use any higher rated rectifier without a problem, and in fact you would be installing a "more heavy duty", potentially more reliable part.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11169	From: Al	Date: 1/17/2001
Subject: Ebay train listing

For those interested in checking out AF and Gilbert HO trains on eBay, there is a second listing for trains under TOYS. Most everyone goes to the RR Models, trains listing at: http://listings.ebay.com/aw/plistings/list/category479/index.html However, the second listing under TOYS called Trains at: http://listings.ebay.com/aw/plistings/list/category2645/index.html Just thought you'd like to know. Al [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11170	From: Rick {bAss-flyer} Evans	Date: 1/17/2001
Subject: The Ron V. Nixon photo site......

My cousin from Minn. just sent this to me,...If you haven't checked it out already, it's worth a look. Some great loco pics!! http://libmuse.msu.montana.edu:4000/rvn/rvn.home Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11171	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/17/2001
Subject: Re: please help re DC radio shack rectifier?

My experience is that the internal resistance of the diodes in a bridge rectifier is ia factor in performance. I also think current draw may be important. I base these observations on empirical observations with real cases. Any comments from those who actually know the theory? Chuck Harrington wrote: > > The PIV rating (peak inverse voltage) would not change how your loco runs. You can > use any higher rated rectifier without a problem, and in fact you would be > installing a "more heavy duty", potentially more reliable part. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11172	From: Anita and Phil Johnson	Date: 1/17/2001
Subject: Uncouplers

First, to everyone who offered help with my loose driver, the super glue job seems to be holding. We're back on schedule. Next, Ive added a consist made up of SH and AM cars and cannot get them to uncouple consistently with my 705 uncouplers. The 705's are working just fine with my LC Flyer cars but don't seem to have enough push to activate the SH and AM KC's. Any suggestions? There must be a technique I'm not aware of. Thanks. Philip

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11173	From: gino restivo	Date: 1/17/2001
Subject: Re: re DC radio shack rectifier? suppliers !

try ; Mouser electrnics , www.mouser.com 800-346-6873 , Digi- key www. ? , www.Future-Active.com Electronics 800-645-2953 -----Original Message----- From: John <jde@...> To: S-Trains@egroups.com <S-Trains@egroups.com> Date: Wednesday, January 17, 2001 10:07 AM Subject: [S-Trains] please help re DC radio shack rectifier? >Hi Guys & Gals; >Well here I am up north in the ten years behind country :} >I am really stuck this tyme I went to our local Radio Shack >to buy 6 piv 50 [4 amp/50 volt PIV ] and they don't carry them >anymore as I have converted 6 of my loco's over to DC to complete >the transition I need a half dozen of the PIV's #276-1146. > >Also I need the Radio Shack's 6 amp bridge rectifier full wave >solid state device #276-1180 and the double pole throw switch? > >Doug Peck Please note :if you read this letter I would appreciate it >if you could supply me with the above if you have them in stock? > >Thanks for the listen much appreciated Oh i tried my clydesdale >hefty Tranny and the problem is solved re the whistle blowing >on my AC Track The guys are right again about what type of tranny to >use and what not to use thanks Guys John De > >jde@... > > > >7 > > > > > > > > > > > >7 > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Shop online without a credit card http://www.rocketcash.com RocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11174	From: clarson700@aol.com	Date: 1/17/2001
Subject: Molding your own replacement

Over the past several years I to have struggled with making my own parts. Then last December when the GATS show was here in San Diego, I attended a free clinic while at the show. It was on Mold Making, and Casting. If you ever get the chance, sit through it. For years I tried just about everything you can find at craft stores, some works better than others. Now I know much better. I ended up buying their products that day, and have no regrets at all. The name of the company is Bragdon Enterprises. They have a very nice web site at: http://bragdonent.com/ I bought their two part RTV Silicon Mold Rubber, and their two part Cast Satin resin. Used properly they say the mold will last for around 500 casts. The Cast Satin resin gives excellant detail. I'm the person who listed the Reproduction Armored Car on eBay last week. That car is a result of these products. The pictures are still up if you want to see them. Auction number was 538211691. I hope this will be of some help to those who want, and enjoy makinf your own parts. Good luck. Jack

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11175	From: Wayne and Alice Beachy	Date: 1/17/2001
Subject: New ACSG photos

Hi Everyone, Many of you have seen Nick Colleran's comments on these lists over the last couple of years. The Virginia Central Division of the ACSG had their Christmas party at Nick's house and last week I returned to take some photos of Nick's superb layout to post on our web site. Take a tour of the layout and his projects at http://www.sgauge.homestead.com/acsgindex.html then click on Virginia Central Division, then Members layouts, then Nick Colleran. If you have not done so before, also visit the other Division's pages and other member's layouts. Hope you enjoy. Wayne Beachy Atlantic Coast S Gaugers Virginia Central Division [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11176	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 1/17/2001
Subject: Radio Shack Rectifiers!

A silicon diode will drop .5 to .6 volts across its junction, period; resistance is not really a factor here. Having said that, it is worth mentioning that buying parts like this from Radio Shack is crap shoot at best. I have always believed that many of their parts are probably seconds. At the very least, they are of medium or lower quality. If the diode bridge with the higher PIV rating did not work as well as the lower one, it is most likely a component quality issue. I use Radio Shack like a 7-Eleven or a party store. They are a convient place to get parts in a hurry, but you can buy electronic parts better and cheaper from a regular supplier.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11177	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 1/17/2001
Subject: Breaking Lionel News?

BREAKING NEWS Lionel announces cost saving plan Union given until Monday to propose alternative to Michigan plant shut down. by Neil Besougloff Lionel President Dick Maddox with two of Lionel's recent products. One hundred years of American toy-train manufacturing may soon come to an end. Lionel, the best-known name in electric trains, is considering closing its Michigan manufacturing plant, company president Richard Maddox said Wednesday in a conference call with the editors of Classic Toy Trains magazine and Model Retailer magazine. Maddox said Lionel LLC notified United Auto Workers Union local No. 417, which represents Lionel’s factory workers, of the possibility its Chesterfield, Mich., plant would be closed. Maddox said the union was asked to offer a proposal for cost savings by Monday, January 22. “Our lunch has been eaten by our competitors” when it comes to overhead, said Maddox. Nearly all of Lionel’s toy train competitors sell trains made overseas, primarily in China and Korea, where labor and overhead costs are lower. Lionel has steadily increased its overseas production in the past five years to supplement its American production. Maddox said Lionel’s strongest growth has been in the trains and accessories it makes overseas. Maddox stressed a final decision about closing the plant has not been made and that there is no timetable beyond the Monday meeting with union officials concerning the fate of the plant, on the northern fringe of the Detroit metropolitan area. Should Lionel close the plant, it would happen before the end of the year, Maddox said. He said any closing would not affect the delivery of trains to consumers. Maddox said Lionel’s bottom line grew 16 to 17 percent in the past year, but future opportunities are limited by the outdated Michigan facility. Some of the tooling and other equipment in the Michigan plant are 40 years old, Maddox said. Many of the O gauge toy trains, track, and related accessories produced in Michigan have roots from Lionel’s factory in New Jersey, before the train line was purchased by General Mills and moved to Michigan in the 1970s. Lionel celebrated its 100th anniversary as a toy train maker in 2000. Maddox said that if the manufacturing plant is closed, the shipping, receiving, engineering and administrative offices would remain in Michigan. About 150 people work in those offices. Maddox declined to say how many people work in the factory. Lionel in the past has reported that about 350 people work in its manufacturing plant, depending on the time of year. Should the plant be closed, Maddox said tooling in the plant used to make trains would be sent overseas to another manufacturing plant, but he would not specify where. Neil Besougloff is editor of Classic Toy Trains magazine. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11178	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 1/17/2001
Subject: Re: Breaking Lionel News?

Is Lionel in a bind ? Is this a good time for one of you to try and buy out the AF line from them? The company employees were union members. Real bright ! A good way to kill a company in this line of business. Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11179	From: JRobbie99@aol.com	Date: 1/18/2001
Subject: Re: A 360 or a 21927?

I think the whole loco is a hodge podge of parts thrown together in an attempt to have a reasonably complete loco. You have a later chassis with the large square hole and 2 position reverse unit. The truck chassis look like the unpainted early Lionel production. The gears look to be early Lionel black plastic production. The drive wheels could be from any diesel and note there are no pul-mor, so that nixes the loco from being completely correct for a later 5 digit number. The body could be from anything from a late 360 to the later 5 digit UP's or MP's or Santa Fe's. Without the paint and original number or markings its impossible to tell or even guess without a date from inside the shell if that even exists any longer. Definitely "For Parts" or a kitbash project.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11180	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 1/18/2001
Subject: Breaking Lionel news

Roger: please do not disrespect unions on S-list. If it were not for unions, we would be a nation of slaves right now. And in case you haven't noticed, in this wonderful "Global economy", jobs are moved from country to country to take advantage of cheap labor. To then turn around and blame this situation on unions is arrant foolishness. Weren't we going to keep political comments off S-list? I thought that stuff ended with the so called election, or selection, or whatever it was. (-: Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11181	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 1/18/2001
Subject: Re: Breaking Lionel News?

On reason I am a Flyer fan and I operate what was built between 1946 and 1958 as it is MADE IN THE USA! To me that is worth something, and today Made in the USA is very rare, especially in the the Toy Train Business. For Christmas I was given the video 100 Years of Lionel. It talked about the demand for high end scale equipment. It also stated Lionel was more successful than others due to great marketing. Currently I think Lionel is being outmarketed by MTH and others. Lionel has tried once before to move production to Mexico. The low quality items produced there almost finished the company ! I hope that Lionel will come to an agreement with their Unions to continue. I also hope part of the agreement would be more agressive marketing by Lionel showcasing the high quality USA made products. If you have a quality product, and can create the demand for it, the customer will come to you. You can have a winner and make a profit too. With the current resurgance in interest in toy trains and a strong economy, this should be something that can happen. I hope so. I would hate to see Lionel Made in the USA only a memory. Michael cbtrainnut@... wrote: > BREAKING NEWS > Lionel announces cost saving plan > Union given until Monday to propose alternative to Michigan plant shut down. > by Neil Besougloff > > Lionel President Dick Maddox with two of Lionel's recent products. > > One hundred years of American toy-train manufacturing may soon come to an > end. > > Lionel, the best-known name in electric trains, is considering closing its > Michigan manufacturing plant, company president Richard Maddox said > Wednesday in a conference call with the editors of Classic Toy Trains > magazine and Model Retailer magazine. > > Maddox said Lionel LLC notified United Auto Workers Union local No. 417, > which represents Lionel’s factory workers, of the possibility its > Chesterfield, Mich., plant would be closed. Maddox said the union was asked > to offer a proposal for cost savings by Monday, January 22. > > “Our lunch has been eaten by our competitors” when it comes to overhead, > said Maddox. Nearly all of Lionel’s toy train competitors sell trains made > overseas, primarily in China and Korea, where labor and overhead costs are > lower. Lionel has steadily increased its overseas production in the past > five years to supplement its American production. Maddox said Lionel’s > strongest growth has been in the trains and accessories it makes overseas. > > Maddox stressed a final decision about closing the plant has not been made > and that there is no timetable beyond the Monday meeting with union > officials concerning the fate of the plant, on the northern fringe of the > Detroit metropolitan area. Should Lionel close the plant, it would happen > before the end of the year, Maddox said. He said any closing would not > affect the delivery of trains to consumers. > > Maddox said Lionel’s bottom line grew 16 to 17 percent in the past year, but > future opportunities are limited by the outdated Michigan facility. > > Some of the tooling and other equipment in the Michigan plant are 40 years > old, Maddox said. Many of the O gauge toy trains, track, and related > accessories produced in Michigan have roots from Lionel’s factory in New > Jersey, before the train line was purchased by General Mills and moved to > Michigan in the 1970s. Lionel celebrated its 100th anniversary as a toy > train maker in 2000. > > Maddox said that if the manufacturing plant is closed, the shipping, > receiving, engineering and administrative offices would remain in Michigan. > About 150 people work in those offices. Maddox declined to say how many > people work in the factory. Lionel in the past has reported that about 350 > people work in its manufacturing plant, depending on the time of year. > > Should the plant be closed, Maddox said tooling in the plant used to make > trains would be sent overseas to another manufacturing plant, but he would > not specify where. > > Neil Besougloff is editor of Classic Toy Trains magazine. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11182	From: Roy Inman	Date: 1/18/2001
Subject: Lionel overseas/internet gosip?

To Michael, et al: In my checkered journalistic career I have had occasion to observe labor maneuvering such as this for nearly 40 years. Making statements such as Maddox did, in a public forum (or at least that conveniently wound up in a public forum) indicates the die is cast, if in fact this report is true and accurate. It is, in effect, giving notice to the employees without having to give notice, if you catch my drift. Oh sure, if the union would come across with an outrageous proposal that would leave Lionel employees short on their house payments, then the company might (I say might) reconsider. But for all intents and purposes, it is a done deal looks like to me. And Michael, your comment about Made in the USA being rare indeed tells the whole story: There is only one bottom line in business, especially these days: Profit. A. C Gilbert, so I have read, kept in mind he was creating "fun toys," and profit may have been secondary; Cowen sure had the same spirit. So, for me, I am hanging onto any and all of my Gilbert stuff made in the USA, just to show the grandkids (if my kids every figure out how to make me a grandparent) what the label looks like. With lament, but holding onto a thread of hope, that maybe this is just internet gossip!!! Regards, to all S folks. Roy Inman [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11183	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 1/18/2001
Subject: Lionel Closing Plant, etc...

It is interesting, that there seems to be more interest in the possible Lionel plant closing on this s-list, then there does on the TCA's Toy Train Digest list. That list is mostly 0 gauge guys, and they are not talking about it much... Could it be they like the MTH stuff better and are a little indifferent towards Lionel? I like to see stuff made in the USA, and I am a member of the IBEW (a union), but it seems to me that the quality of product that Lionel can afford to make in the USA, few people want. So what is the solution to this? This is the same thing that put Gilbert out of business! The product that they could make (remember the Casey Jones engine?) at the price the market wanted, the market didn't want! I figure our antique Gilbert stuff is a bargain. A 322AC Hudson steamer would probably cost over $1000.00 if made today with the quality it was originally made with. Make it in the USA at union scale, and then who knows where the price would go? If Lionel does not change with the times and build its products overseas, they will go where A.C. Gilbert went... Out of Business. If the current Lionel workers comprimise and accept lower wages, this will probably just delay the eventual plant closing a while longer. It is sad to say that the good old USA is losing its manufacturing. We are just too expensive. (Or is it that China and other countries are too cheap? It doesn't matter which it is really. The results are the same)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11184	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 1/18/2001
Subject: Original Article is at this URL

Article URL is <A HREF="http://trains.com/Content/Dynamic/Articles/000/000/000/457gywkn.asp"> http://trains.com/Content/Dynamic/Articles/000/000/000/457gywkn.asp</A> Here is the URL for the original article about the Lionel move to overseas for anyone interested. I thought I sent it with the original e-mail. Chris [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11185	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 1/18/2001
Subject: For people wanting to start a model RR Mfg. co.

Anyone starting a company to make model trains in low volume (low volume because of popular rating) should not have union labor. You need a high production volume to justify the high pay union workers get. I was a union member for a commercial mfg. The demands of the union put the company out of business. The company did not get enough orders to justify the high pay, etc. I believe in unions to protect workers from unfair employers. But the high cost of a union can kill a small business. If "L" could sell 500,000 train sets a year, then they would not have to look overseas for manufactures. I good supply and demand would keep a company with a union going in the USA. It just isn't there with "L" and never will be. Part of the blame is the lack of effective advertising skills from "Lyin-L". The workers at "L" should buy the company out and divide the profits evenly among themselves. They might make more money, -- More likely. --- less. Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11186	From: Tom Stolte	Date: 1/18/2001
Subject: New Decals from Oddballs Decals - N, S, HO & O scales

601 Dow Chemical Company Hood Units. (1990's) Set will letter 3 different diesels. Diesels painted orange & black. Red, white & black lettering. 602 GATX, Minnesota Corn Producers 40' tank car. (8-98) Set will letter one car. Car is painted black. Walthers tank car kit. Green, white, yellow & black lettering. 603 Union Tank Car Company, VICX ACF 4 bay center flow covered hopper. (2-91) Car is painted light grey. Set will letter one car. Athearn kit. Blue, black & white lettering. 604 Archer Daniels Midland Company, ADMX 3 bay covered hopper. (2-95) Car is painted light grey. Accurail kit. Set will letter one car. Blue, white & black lettering. The N scale sets will letter 2 or 3 cars. S & O scale will letter 1 car. All the above decals refer to HO scale kits on the market. These will also work for other scales. Just pick a car of your choice in the other scales. Prefix numbers for N scale 60-. HO scale 87-. S scale 64-. O scale 48-. N & HO scale retail price $3.00. S & O scale retail price $6.00. These should be in your favorite hobby shop within the next month or so. If ordering direct, please include $1.75 for p&h. Up to date catalog N, HO, S & O scale, $5.00. You buy this catalog once, then every 3 months or so, send me a LSSAE for updates. Fits in a 3 ring binder. -- Tom Stolte - Oddballs Decals Decals printed on the Alps Printer N, HO, S & O Scale Model Railroad Decals 26550 227th Street; McLouth, Kansas 66054 Phone: 913-727-6649 - oddballdecal@... Web site http://www.oddballsdecals.com/ Subscribe: OddballsDecals-subscribe@egroups.com Missouri Pacific Photos Web Page: http://www.trainweb.org/mopac/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11187	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 1/18/2001
Subject: Re: For people wanting to start a model RR Mfg. co.

Dear Roger, I am surprised that you would use the phrase "small business" and Lionel in the same argument. Lionel's gross sales last few years have been in the 45 to 55 million dollar range ($45,000,00.00 to $55,000,00.00). This is not a small business. If you talk to hobby shop owners, you will find another problem with "L" is in the QC (quality control) department. If they are having problems now, just wait until they go offshore. Don T. Roger Hinds wrote: > Anyone starting a company to make model trains in low volume (low volume because > > of popular rating) should not have union labor. You need a high production volume > > to justify the high pay union workers get. I was a union member for a commercial > mfg. > The demands of the union put the company out of business. The company did not > get > enough orders to justify the high pay, etc. I believe in unions to protect > workers from > unfair employers. But the high cost of a union can kill a small business. > If "L" could sell 500,000 train sets a year, then they would not have to look > overseas > for manufactures. I good supply and demand would keep a company with a union > going in the USA. It just isn't there with "L" and never will be. Part of the > blame is the > lack of effective advertising skills from "Lyin-L". > The workers at "L" should buy the company out and divide the profits evenly > among > themselves. They might make more money, -- More likely. --- less. > > Roger > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 40' Billboard Reefers are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11188	From: Tom Robichaud	Date: 1/18/2001
Subject: Re: For people wanting to start a model RR Mfg. co.

Don: Do you really believe that? "If they are having problems now, just wait until they go offshore." I would suspect that once manufacturing is offshore, there quality will improved. Nothing against the union or US manufacturing but I've seen some real good quality come from oversees manufacturing. The biggest problem is communicating the expectations. Don, I don't see quality issues with SHS products. Tommy Robin Thompson <robin@...> on 01/18/2001 03:36:44 PM Please respond to robin@... To: Roger Hinds <cofa@...> cc: S Train <S-Trains@egroups.com> Subject: Re: [S-Trains] For people wanting to start a model RR Mfg. co. Dear Roger, I am surprised that you would use the phrase "small business" and Lionel in the same argument. Lionel's gross sales last few years have been in the 45 to 55 million dollar range ($45,000,00.00 to $55,000,00.00). This is not a small business. If you talk to hobby shop owners, you will find another problem with "L" is in the QC (quality control) department. If they are having problems now, just wait until they go offshore. Don T. Roger Hinds wrote: > Anyone starting a company to make model trains in low volume (low volume because > > of popular rating) should not have union labor. You need a high production volume > > to justify the high pay union workers get. I was a union member for a commercial > mfg. > The demands of the union put the company out of business. The company did not > get > enough orders to justify the high pay, etc. I believe in unions to protect > workers from > unfair employers. But the high cost of a union can kill a small business. > If "L" could sell 500,000 train sets a year, then they would not have to look > overseas > for manufactures. I good supply and demand would keep a company with a union > going in the USA. It just isn't there with "L" and never will be. Part of the > blame is the > lack of effective advertising skills from "Lyin-L". > The workers at "L" should buy the company out and divide the profits evenly > among > themselves. They might make more money, -- More likely. --- less. > > Roger > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 40' Billboard Reefers are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11189	From: Peck	Date: 1/18/2001
Subject: Re: Repair Manual

Well----here's an opportunity for someone out there......... Tom Barker's AF Repair Manual is now extinct..............out-of-print at Kalmbach. I followed up on that news, and was told they have no plans to reprint the book. Maybe it's time for someone to edit and produce a NEW version! Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11190	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 1/18/2001
Subject: Help!

I just got around to calling the hotel in Scranton. Oops! No more rooms. Anybody looking for a roomate? or Anybody got reservations but don't think they or going to make it? I was planning on Flying up early on Wednesday. They have a alternate hotel but it is not downtown. Call me if you have a plan. (561) 597-3788 -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://S-Trains.com (alt e-mail PaulYorke@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11191	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 1/18/2001
Subject: Re: For people wanting to start a model RR Mfg. co.

Dear Tom, Don't try to read in between the lines too much here. Trust me, it is a bit more difficult to explain clearly exactly what you want when there is a bit of a language barrier and you reference prototypes that have never been seen by the engineers and designers. The problems really can happen when you try to rush products to market. We feel that our builder does an excellent job on our products, but you can see similar models in other scales (sometimes in the same scale), that are made in the same factory and the differences can be amazing. Don T. Tom Robichaud wrote: > Don: > > Do you really believe that? "If they are having problems now, just wait until > they go offshore." > > I would suspect that once manufacturing is offshore, there quality will > improved. Nothing against the union or US manufacturing but I've seen some real > good quality come from oversees manufacturing. The biggest problem is > communicating the expectations. Don, I don't see quality issues with SHS > products. > > Tommy > > Robin Thompson <robin@...> on 01/18/2001 03:36:44 PM > > Please respond to robin@... > > To: Roger Hinds <cofa@...> > cc: S Train <S-Trains@egroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [S-Trains] For people wanting to start a model RR Mfg. co. > > Dear Roger, > I am surprised that you would use the phrase "small business" and Lionel in > the > same argument. Lionel's gross sales last few years have been in the 45 to 55 > million dollar range ($45,000,00.00 to $55,000,00.00). This is not a small > business. > If you talk to hobby shop owners, you will find another problem with "L" is > in > the QC (quality control) department. If they are having problems now, just wait > until they go offshore. > Don T. > > Roger Hinds wrote: > > > Anyone starting a company to make model trains in low volume (low volume > because > > > > of popular rating) should not have union labor. You need a high production > volume > > > > to justify the high pay union workers get. I was a union member for a > commercial > > mfg. > > The demands of the union put the company out of business. The company did not > > get > > enough orders to justify the high pay, etc. I believe in unions to protect > > workers from > > unfair employers. But the high cost of a union can kill a small business. > > If "L" could sell 500,000 train sets a year, then they would not have to look > > overseas > > for manufactures. I good supply and demand would keep a company with a union > > going in the USA. It just isn't there with "L" and never will be. Part of the > > blame is the > > lack of effective advertising skills from "Lyin-L". > > The workers at "L" should buy the company out and divide the profits evenly > > among > > themselves. They might make more money, -- More likely. --- less. > > > > Roger > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > -- Don Thompson > S Helper Service Inc. > http://www.showcaseline.com > 1.800.465.0303 > 40' Billboard Reefers are now shipping! > http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 40' Billboard Reefers are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11192	From: John Foley	Date: 1/18/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Help!

Hi Paul Did the hotel tell you they have no more rooms and leave it at that. They are supposed to set up people at our backup hotel. Which is only a mile away and both hotels said they would be happy to take folks back and forth. John Foley At 05:50 PM 1/18/01 -0500, Paul Yorke wrote: >I just got around to calling the hotel in Scranton. Oops! No more rooms. > >Anybody looking for a roomate? >or >Anybody got reservations but don't think they or going to make it? > >I was planning on Flying up early on Wednesday. >They have a alternate hotel but it is not downtown. > >Call me if you have a plan. (561) 597-3788 >-- >Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. >American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers >http://S-Trains.com (alt e-mail PaulYorke@...) > > > >The topic is S Scale please keep your messages 'on-topic'. >To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11193	From: Dan Brindell	Date: 1/18/2001
Subject: Re: Lionel Closing Plant, etc...

I don't want to get political either, but I would like to make the following observations, which in my opinion are relatively non-political: 1. US manufacturing workers are capable of producing quality every bit as good as overseas workers. If you don't believe me, check out Compaq computers, Harley-Davidson motorcycles, Sturm Ruger firearms, or Cannondale bicycles, among many others. 2. To produce topnotch quality takes an all-out cooperative effort by both management and labor. If management is trying to take advantage of labor, or vice versa, the quality won't be there. Both management and labor must understand that their jobs are at stake. 3. Nobody can produce topnotch quality with second-rate materials and tools. If you check the Lionel article, you will see he says "....the tooling and equipment.....is more than 40 years old....." So whose fault is that? Answer: management. It is management's job to justify the capital expenditures on new machinery. If he expects the workers to produce top quality with 40 year old equipment, he is a fool. Dan Brindell -----Original Message----- From: Chuck Harrington <myflyertrains@...> To: s-trains <S-Trains@egroups.com> Date: Thursday, January 18, 2001 1:18 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Lionel Closing Plant, etc... >It is interesting, that there seems to be more interest in the possible >Lionel plant closing on this s-list, then there does on the TCA's Toy >Train Digest list. That list is mostly 0 gauge guys, and they are not >talking about it much... Could it be they like the MTH stuff better and >are a little indifferent towards Lionel? > >I like to see stuff made in the USA, and I am a member of the IBEW (a >union), but it seems to me that the quality of product that Lionel can >afford to make in the USA, few people want. So what is the solution to >this? This is the same thing that put Gilbert out of business! The >product that they could make (remember the Casey Jones engine?) at the >price the market wanted, the market didn't want! > >I figure our antique Gilbert stuff is a bargain. A 322AC Hudson steamer >would probably cost over $1000.00 if made today with the quality it was >originally made with. Make it in the USA at union scale, and then who >knows where the price would go? > >If Lionel does not change with the times and build its products >overseas, they will go where A.C. Gilbert went... Out of Business. If >the current Lionel workers comprimise and accept lower wages, this will >probably just delay the eventual plant closing a while longer. > >It is sad to say that the good old USA is losing its manufacturing. We >are just too expensive. (Or is it that China and other countries are too >cheap? It doesn't matter which it is really. The results are the same) > > > > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11194	From: TPDavis7@aol.com	Date: 1/18/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Help!

John, I too called the Radisson today to find out they were out of rooms. They put me onto the Clarion Hotel Scranton, a overflow hotel, 5 minutes away. I made reservations for myself and three other S gaugers at the same rate, $99. Tom Davis, Charlotte, NC [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11195	From: belairchevy@webtv.net	Date: 1/18/2001
Subject: Re: Breaking News At Lionel

Sounds to me like the only thing being broken at Lionel is the Union. MTH is eating Lionels lunch with inovative new products and not just the overhead that Mr. Maddox talks about. Several years ago I filled out a questionaire from MTH with regard to my interest in S-gauge products. Were they or are they considering an S-gauge product line? Interesting thought.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11196	From: Euell Johnson	Date: 1/18/2001
Subject: Re: Breaking Lionel News?

There are many places in the US where a company can do business without interruption from the unions. Several of these are located across the South. Buildings are in place. The states offer tax credit incentives, training for the new hires, professional consulting services and so on. That a business has to leave the US to survive or make a profit is a lot of bunk. When a company leaves quits manufacturing here in the US, it is because overseas manufacturing is "sexy". Supposedly the costs are less. I doubt if this is really the case, except in the most labor intensive operations. The Marketing and Admin costs remain. Transportation costs are often dramatically increased. An easyway for us, the American consumer, to gain control of the situation is to form groups that "black list" these scawlywags. Let the Korean and Chinese consume these products at the profits the companies say they must make. That won't happen. First it was mergers. Now it is outsourcing. What will that think of next for American Labor. I know people like SHS and American Models must have a large portion of their work done overseas as they start to provide us with products. But it is NOT necessary for established companies with existing markets and fixed facilities to do this. They simply are trying to hide their poor management skills behind American labor. EJ ----- Original Message ----- From: <kite1@...> To: <cbtrainnut@...>; <s-trains@egroups.com> Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 7:42 AM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Breaking Lionel News? > On reason I am a Flyer fan and I operate what was built between 1946 and 1958 as > it is MADE IN THE USA! To me that is worth something, and today Made in the USA > is very rare, especially in the the Toy Train Business. For Christmas I was given > the video 100 Years of Lionel. It talked about the demand for high end scale > equipment. It also stated Lionel was more successful than others due to great > marketing. Currently I think Lionel is being outmarketed by MTH and others. > Lionel has tried once before to move production to Mexico. The low quality items > produced there almost finished the company ! I hope that Lionel will come to an > agreement with their Unions to continue. I also hope part of the agreement would > be more agressive marketing by Lionel showcasing the high quality USA made > products. If you have a quality product, and can create the demand for it, the > customer will come to you. You can have a winner and make a profit too. With the > current resurgance in interest in toy trains and a strong economy, this should be > something that can happen. I hope so. I would hate to see Lionel Made in the USA > only a memory. Michael > > > > cbtrainnut@... wrote: > > > BREAKING NEWS > > Lionel announces cost saving plan > > Union given until Monday to propose alternative to Michigan plant shut down. > > by Neil Besougloff > > > > Lionel President Dick Maddox with two of Lionel's recent products. > > > > One hundred years of American toy-train manufacturing may soon come to an > > end. > > > > Lionel, the best-known name in electric trains, is considering closing its > > Michigan manufacturing plant, company president Richard Maddox said > > Wednesday in a conference call with the editors of Classic Toy Trains > > magazine and Model Retailer magazine. > > > > Maddox said Lionel LLC notified United Auto Workers Union local No. 417, > > which represents Lionelâ?Ts factory workers, of the possibility its > > Chesterfield, Mich., plant would be closed. Maddox said the union was asked > > to offer a proposal for cost savings by Monday, January 22. > > > > â?oOur lunch has been eaten by our competitorsâ? when it comes to overhead, > > said Maddox. Nearly all of Lionelâ?Ts toy train competitors sell trains made > > overseas, primarily in China and Korea, where labor and overhead costs are > > lower. Lionel has steadily increased its overseas production in the past > > five years to supplement its American production. Maddox said Lionelâ?Ts > > strongest growth has been in the trains and accessories it makes overseas. > > > > Maddox stressed a final decision about closing the plant has not been made > > and that there is no timetable beyond the Monday meeting with union > > officials concerning the fate of the plant, on the northern fringe of the > > Detroit metropolitan area. Should Lionel close the plant, it would happen > > before the end of the year, Maddox said. He said any closing would not > > affect the delivery of trains to consumers. > > > > Maddox said Lionelâ?Ts bottom line grew 16 to 17 percent in the past year, but > > future opportunities are limited by the outdated Michigan facility. > > > > Some of the tooling and other equipment in the Michigan plant are 40 years > > old, Maddox said. Many of the O gauge toy trains, track, and related > > accessories produced in Michigan have roots from Lionelâ?Ts factory in New > > Jersey, before the train line was purchased by General Mills and moved to > > Michigan in the 1970s. Lionel celebrated its 100th anniversary as a toy > > train maker in 2000. > > > > Maddox said that if the manufacturing plant is closed, the shipping, > > receiving, engineering and administrative offices would remain in Michigan. > > About 150 people work in those offices. Maddox declined to say how many > > people work in the factory. Lionel in the past has reported that about 350 > > people work in its manufacturing plant, depending on the time of year. > > > > Should the plant be closed, Maddox said tooling in the plant used to make > > trains would be sent overseas to another manufacturing plant, but he would > > not specify where. > > > > Neil Besougloff is editor of Classic Toy Trains magazine. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11197	From: Tom Robichaud	Date: 1/18/2001
Subject: Circus Music

Yo: Anyone know where someone could get a CD with Circus music? Tommy

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11198	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 1/18/2001
Subject: Re: Circus Music

First place that comes to mind is the Circus World Museum at Baraboo, Wisconsin. They have a restored calliope there that is considered one of the best in the world. DJE-KCMO Tom Robichaud wrote: > Yo: > > Anyone know where someone could get a CD with Circus music? > > Tommy > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11199	From: scott griggs	Date: 1/18/2001
Subject: Re: Lionel Closing Plant, etc...

Chuck, Very well thought out post. I couldn't agree more. It's easy to take a cynical view of this and point to greed and the motivation to earn excessive profits, but the bottom line is this: companies that don't earn high enough returns for their investors can't obtain the capital necessary to finance their projects. The pounding that Lionel is taking at the hands of MTH is in no small part, due to MTH's more favorable cost structure. While I do think it is sad that we may be seeing the end of an era of US-made toy trains, it has more to do with the economics at work than the characteristics of Lionel's workers or management. We have the highest standard of living in the world in the United States and very low unemployment overall. I think it says a lot that we have the luxury to worry about the manufacturing location of our toy trains... --- In S-Trains@egroups.com, Chuck Harrington <myflyertrains@c...> wrote: > It is interesting, that there seems to be more interest in the possible > Lionel plant closing on this s-list, then there does on the TCA's Toy > Train Digest list. That list is mostly 0 gauge guys, and they are not > talking about it much... Could it be they like the MTH stuff better and > are a little indifferent towards Lionel? > > I like to see stuff made in the USA, and I am a member of the IBEW (a > union), but it seems to me that the quality of product that Lionel can > afford to make in the USA, few people want. So what is the solution to > this? This is the same thing that put Gilbert out of business! The > product that they could make (remember the Casey Jones engine?) at the > price the market wanted, the market didn't want! > > I figure our antique Gilbert stuff is a bargain. A 322AC Hudson steamer > would probably cost over $1000.00 if made today with the quality it was > originally made with. Make it in the USA at union scale, and then who > knows where the price would go? > > If Lionel does not change with the times and build its products > overseas, they will go where A.C. Gilbert went... Out of Business. If > the current Lionel workers comprimise and accept lower wages, this will > probably just delay the eventual plant closing a while longer. > > It is sad to say that the good old USA is losing its manufacturing. We > are just too expensive. (Or is it that China and other countries are too > cheap? It doesn't matter which it is really. The results are the same)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11200	From: Wayne Zebron	Date: 1/18/2001
Subject: please help re DC radio shack rectifier?

Hi, I purchased the bridge rectifiers for my conversion to dc from Mouser Electronics. Stock No. 583-RS2001M RS20M 20.0A 100V is used on transformer output. Stock No. 583-RS401L RS4L 4A 50V is used in each engine. I am real happy with the results fo the conversion and I credit it to the rectifiers. You can check out Mouser Electronics at http://www.mouser.com Good Luck, Wayne

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11201	From: Joseph R. Craig	Date: 1/18/2001
Subject: Need Advise regarding Flyer Rubber Roadbed

My layout is 99.9% original flyer including track. Thought I might want to try rubber roadbed on at least one mainline to start but at about 50' in length this represents something of an investment. Is the roadbed actually a good idea? Is original roadbed OK or is it better to buy reproduction new roadbed as it is advertised with some additives to the rubber? Also thanks for the great discussions on the talking station. It is on my want list and would have bought one without knowing some pitfalls but for the info I just gleaned from the list.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11202	From: Doug	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: Re: please help re DC radio shack rectifier?

I have a stupid question, as a novice to the S gauge hobby. What is the reason for converting an AC powered American Flyer to DC?? The only thing I can think of is to run on batteries, but that doesn't make sense to me. Can anyone explain why for me?? Thanks, Doug ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne Zebron" <zebbie@...> To: <S-Trains@egroups.com> Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 11:41 PM Subject: [S-Trains] please help re DC radio shack rectifier? > Hi, > > I purchased the bridge rectifiers for my conversion to dc from Mouser > Electronics. > Stock No. 583-RS2001M RS20M 20.0A 100V is used on transformer output. > Stock No. 583-RS401L RS4L 4A 50V is used in each engine. > I am real happy with the results fo the conversion and I credit it to the > rectifiers. You can check out Mouser Electronics at http://www.mouser.com > > Good Luck, > Wayne > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11203	From: JRobbie99@aol.com	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: Re: Lionel Closing Plant, etc...

The only thing I would love to see to come out of this is to have "American Flyer" back in an individual business' hands again as a sole entity that makes the greatest trains in the world. A perfect scenario would be to have a group of investors form a corporation named A.C. Gilbert Manufacturing Co, then buy the American Flyer rights and tooling etc. back from Lionel, and have American Flyer rise from the ashes like a Phoenix. I can see it now..... To raise capital Lionel sells off the rights to American Flyer, and a year later we see..... American Flyer 3/16th Scale Trains by A.C. Gilbert Manufacturing Co. (S)!!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11204	From: Bente Velapoldi	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: Re: Lionel Closing Plant, etc...

Scott: Although I have often heard that US has highest std of living, actual lists that I have seen which summarize the order of standard of living show US is down the list somewhere between 6 and 10. The US is probably the easiest country to live in, however. I will try to find one such list. Rance Velapoldi Snip: scott griggs wrote: > > We have the highest standard of living in the world in the United > States and very low unemployment overall. I think it says a lot that > s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11205	From: Michael Greene	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: Re: Circus Music

At 09:39 PM 1/18/2001 -0500, Tom Robichaud wrote: >Yo: > >Anyone know where someone could get a CD with Circus music? > >Tommy Try either: http://www.circusworldmuseum.com or http://www.towerrecords.com and search on circus music Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11206	From: John Foley	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Help!

Hi Tom Glad to hear you and the three others are coming to the convention The Clarion will be running folks to the main hotel. Thanks John At 07:53 PM 1/18/01 -0500, TPDavis7@... wrote: >John, I too called the Radisson today to find out they were out of rooms. >They put me onto the Clarion Hotel Scranton, a overflow hotel, 5 minutes >away. I made reservations for myself and three other S gaugers at the same >rate, $99. > >Tom Davis, Charlotte, NC [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11207	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: Re: Lionel Closing Plant, etc...

JRobbie wrote: > The only thing I would love to see to come out of this is to > have "American Flyer" back in an individual business' hands again as > a sole entity that makes the greatest trains in the world. A perfect > scenario would be to have a group of investors form a corporation > named A.C. Gilbert Manufacturing Co, then buy the American Flyer > rights and tooling etc. back from Lionel, and have American Flyer > rise from the ashes like a Phoenix. I can see it now..... To raise > capital Lionel sells off the rights to American Flyer, and a year > later we see..... > > American Flyer 3/16th Scale Trains by A.C. Gilbert Manufacturing Co. > Ain't gonna happen.... Rich G.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11208	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: Re: Need Advise regarding Flyer Rubber Roadbed

All of the portion of my layout that runs on Flyer track uses rubber roadbed. The remaining roughly half is split between ballasted Gargraves and American Models. Rubber roadbed improves AF track appearance dramatically. Now I can't stand the look of bare flyer track. It's a little quiter. AM and Gargraves with ballast rigidly glued down is a little noisy, maybe because I used dilute white glue and not matte medium. "Joseph R. Craig" wrote: > > My layout is 99.9% original flyer including track. Thought I might > want to try rubber roadbed on at least one mainline to start but at > about 50' in length this represents something of an investment. Is > the roadbed actually a good idea? Is original roadbed OK or is it > better to buy reproduction new roadbed as it is advertised with some > additives to the rubber? > > Also thanks for the great discussions on the talking station. It is > on my want list and would have bought one without knowing some > pitfalls but for the info I just gleaned from the list. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11209	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: Re: please help re DC radio shack rectifier?

One point of confusion is that you can run on DC and not change anything because the motors are universal, except the few original Flyer DC engines. Conversion allows you to eliminate the sometimes unreliable or sticky reversing unit and use ultra reliable DC polarity reversing. You then MUST run the engine on DC only but that's easy with a rectifier on the output of your Flyer transformer. For conversion details of a motor see Paul York's web site at: http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/repair/rectifier.htm Doug wrote: > > I have a stupid question, as a novice to the S gauge hobby. > What is the reason for converting an AC powered American Flyer to DC?? The > only thing I can think of is to run on batteries, but that doesn't make > sense to me. Can anyone explain why for me?? > Thanks, > Doug > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Wayne Zebron" <zebbie@...> > To: <S-Trains@egroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 11:41 PM > Subject: [S-Trains] please help re DC radio shack rectifier? > > > Hi, > > > > I purchased the bridge rectifiers for my conversion to dc from Mouser > > Electronics. > > Stock No. 583-RS2001M RS20M 20.0A 100V is used on transformer output. > > Stock No. 583-RS401L RS4L 4A 50V is used in each engine. > > I am real happy with the results fo the conversion and I credit it to the > > rectifiers. You can check out Mouser Electronics at > http://www.mouser.com > > > > Good Luck, > > Wayne > > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11210	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: survey

Bob Hannon Tech Book Survey reply 1. Yes (priced right) 2. Yes 3. Yes 4. Both [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11211	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: Loinel

Gentlemen, Having recent experience in the manufacturing, food processing, and drug industries from a technical and economic viewpoint, I think all the positions expressed are issues the Lionel management has dealt with. I would also like to add a position we are all responsible for. The politically created economic arena. When we speak of a world economy and the troubles it brings to us, are we looking at the situation the competitors are in? Their governments encourage business development and growth with many forms of incentives. We see fit to burden our businesses with additional taxes and other restrictions which can force a business to defer upgrades, expansions, and other development which could gain or keep that business competitive. The eastern cities suffer this plague and from my exposure to other parts of the country, it is happening there also. We might give the company a temporary "carrot" to get them to relocate and then hit them with "make up" costs to support the continued incentives offered to the next relocation. Couple this with the steady stream of owners Lionel has had, who all were/are expecting a reasonable return on their sizeable investments, and we have a plant using ancient equipment, probably marginal facilities, and resulting employee issues which, even a guy like Mr. Maddox would struggle with. As far as "made in the USA", I have tried to keep this practice in our products. But money talks! If folks see an American made RDC at $300 or a Chinese made diesel locomotive for $150, which item do you think they prefer. The features of the product, availability of continued support, or the capability to interface directly with the guy who actually designs and builds the units, don't seem to be too important. "What can I get it for?" or "the price is too high for my blood" is the song we hear. So, the good folks like MTH, Willaims, and Quality Craft reach out to get us these great things, put up with the many issues of an importer, invest large capital in development costs, consumers buy the products at great prices, and all is well. With this business plan seeming to be the one that works, I say, Mr. Maddox, we the people, have been waiting for you to "get with the program". Oh!, by the way, don't worry about your managers, workers, and office help, they can get jobs working on farms, owned by foreign investors, growing food for the folks you will have manufacturing your goods. Our government will be giving it to them so there will be a steady market there and the machinery is not important! One small problem might develop, farm hands can't afford to buy toy trains! We will need to get the government to give the imports some support so we can afford to but them. We can call this the 4th world economy- un-developing a prosperous nation! Tom Doherty Pennsylvania Heritage Models, Ltd. http://www.paheritagemodels.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11212	From: Bente Velapoldi	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: Budd Cars

Hi: Anyone have any additional info on the AM Budd cars (high rail) as I remember reading that they would be out sometime in Jan (ws that 2002??). Rance

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11213	From: Bente Velapoldi	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: Budd Cars

Hi: Anyone have any additional info on the AM Budd cars (high rail) as I remember reading that they would be out sometime in Jan (was that 2002??). Rance

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11214	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: Re: Circus Music

Star Circus Supplies, 3890 Bell Road, Auburn, CA 95603, catalog $4, includes "circus music and collectibles" in their ad in the Little Circus Wagon magazine. No phone number or e-mail address are given. Roger Delthony

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11215	From: toby_loftus@mentor.com	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: Please, let's stick to trains!

May we please keep the posts related to what we all agree on: the love of trains? I've only been on the list a month and have been really delighted with the great information shared on this list. My experience is that when talk turns to labor, management, politics, and religion, no one convinces anyone to change their views, regardless of the articulation or volume of arguments. Let's stick to talking *Trains*! Toby

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11216	From: Tom Robichaud	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: Re: Circus Music

Yo: Thanks for all your replies, I now have the information I need. Tommy "Tom Robichaud" <trobicha@...> on 01/18/2001 09:39:42 PM To: s-trains <S-Trains@egroups.com> cc: Subject: [S-Trains] Circus Music Yo: Anyone know where someone could get a CD with Circus music? Tommy S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11217	From: Dwight Lehnhoff	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: DC

I use DC because the E-units are quieter and for uncouplers and such they also don't have the hum. Dwight Lehnhoff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11218	From: jdefelice@nni.com	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: Molding parts

Just a quick note of thanks to all who gave input to my parts molding question..... A lot of good ideas.... I am trying a molding plaster form, with a plastic resin used with fibre glass for forming Corvette bodies, (my other hobby)....... I like the flexible caulk & play-doe ideas, But I seem to be distorting the molds when I remove the original patterns....I haven't tried the Micro-Mark material yet..... I'm also trying to find the best release agent for the molds...... I have yet to find a combination that worked as well as the plaster & resin denture material I used years ago..... The detail was so good that I am using an Atlantic boiler front I made as a sample pattern... and they didn't need a release agent....... Thanks again I'll keep trying John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11219	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: Re: Please, let's stick to trains!

Toby has a real good point. Most of us would post about Big L's problems because we dream of the "glory days" when AF was every kid's wish list (well, OK "Electric Trains" were, just the enlightened ones asked for AF ;-) ). I personally liked the idea of an investors' group forming the ACG Mfg. Co., irrespective of the practicality of the idea (No I won't start a discussion of that, let's just leave it as a dream, unless a few of us have a few million each to gamble--where's that winning lotto ticket when I need it?). Then some of us would post because our passion of the current way things are made, mostly overseas. This is a "family" here, so sometimes we feel free to discuss things other than trains, but for this list to work well, we really should stick pretty close to the subject, as with any other subject we have wildly divergent beliefs! No sense in getting each other upset about them when we can all have a great amount of fun together with the trains. End of soapbox, I really need to get to work! Keep 'em rolling! S' David D. PS Did you hear about the Indian (oops, Native American) who was named, "Screaming Steam Locomotive"? He thought his name was too cumbersome, and so went to a judge to have it changed. "And what would you like to have it changed to?" "Well, you honor, "Toot-Toot" would be fine." As J. Durante would say, "I gotta miilliun of 'em!" Hey, put down that tomato!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11220	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: Re: please help re DC radio shack rectifier?

Doug, Not a stupid question at all, few are (Well maybe, "What's so good about AF?" might qualify ;-) ). There are a number of reasons for converting, Directional Control is one of the most popular. Quietness of operation is another. There are also reasons for not changing! Stubbornness being one of them (that's ME!), but also many parts work better on AC, the uncouplers have better performance, as they vibrate as well as lift the coupler, some accessories require them. Tom J. can tell you how much easier track wiring is with AC. There's also the cost of converting a large fleet and it's power supply to DC. I personally like the challenge of making a reverse unit function properly, but I've also run a DC converted loco, and the directional control is impressive. But, like I said, I'm stubborn, and have a large fleet, not gonna change YET! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11221	From: seahawkdan@aol.com	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: ridiculous ebay transaction

check this out: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=541432320 an american flyer service manual, available at amazon for $27.00, being auctioned off at $185.00! what's the world coming to? dan boone

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11222	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: Re: Budd Cars

Rance Velopoldi wrote: > Hi: > Anyone have any additional info on the AM Budd cars (high rail) as I > remember reading that they would be out sometime in Jan (ws that > 2002??). > Rance At S-Fest, Ron indicated a January-February 2001 time frame. Rich G.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11223	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: E-Bay Madness

Heck they can have mine for $100.00 Hobby Surplus $35.00 + $25.00 in parts coupons Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11224	From: David A. Highfield	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: (no subject)

I run AF steam engines on DC using AF transformers and AF rectifiers. But is there a company that currently makes a DC transformer that alone is powerful enough to run AF engines? Has anyone found one with momentum and braking features that works with AF? Dave in MD [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11225	From: Robert E. Yablonski	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 880

Fellow S-Gaugers. I grew up thinking American Flyer was the only way to go. I wore out a few sets over the years, but kept them just the same. I am also not deceived by the thought that American Flyer made the best trains. Quite frankly American Flyer make a lot of junk that only works with a lot of tender loving care. That is what makes our hobby. Love. Otherwise who would propose buying engines that wobble down the track, or that the paint washes off with a damp cloth. Oh yes, American Flyer. I love the new quality provided by American Models, Showcase Lines and those of the other gauges such as Mikes Train House. Their quality is designed in. They keep their production costs in line so we can buy the product. Who cares what fingers assemble the units. As Director of Engineering for a major firm I find the quality of american manufacturing no better or worse than than from other countries. If a company wants to stay in business it must make money. So when it is said we want to see: American Flyer 3/16 Scale Trains by A.C. Gilbert Manufacturing Company in actuality we will see: American Flyer 3/16 Scale Trains by A.C. Gilbert Manufacturing Company, China My thoughts, Robert E. Yablonski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11226	From: mvandiver2@aol.com	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: (no subject)

Wouldn't it be wonderful (?) if the world were constructed in such a way that we could put each matter in a different box/compartment and not have any overlapping? Two years ago, at Christmas time, an unexpected package appeared under our Christmas tree with my name on it. When I opened it, it was a Marklin Z Gague. I still do not know who gave it to me. As a result of my new interest in Z Gague.....as had happened with my interest in S Gague, I joined an email group for Z Gague. It was just a few days after Christmas that there was an email for a young adult man in Indonesia who, in broken English, gave many of us a good lesson in how one's interest in trains just might lead to other interests as well. The young man talked about how his family had given him a Marklin model train when he was very young. The family, being very poor, had to sacrifice in order for him to have the train. It was also necessary for the family to move from one facility to another for housing, depending on the work available for the father. In their moving, his transformer for his Marklin was lost. During his young adult years, he had renewed his interest in model trains and wanted to get back into the hobby. He got out his old train and discovered the transformer was missing. He went to look for a transformer and discovered that the price for a basic transformer was far beyond his means. This turned out to be a rather minor problem in light of other priorities in his life. Just a few weeks after the emails about the transformer, we learned from him that his plans to be married that summer also had to be put on hold. With the economy of his country rising at the rate of 100% every few weeks, no longer could he afford to get married to the young woman he had been dating since high school days. Those of us who have been privileged to live in this country just do not realize how good we have had it. Yes, I would like to limit my world to "my" trains and I would like to shut my eyes and ears to the complexities of life that face others each day. But even my interest in AF trains....or L or M or any other trains won't allow that.....not to mention my interest in the "US." How narrow minded we get to think that we can continue to live this way. It just may be that MTH can compete with L for a better and even cheaper product. My concern is not just about the AF brand and what will happen to it or if L employees want to be in a Union or not.....I live in a world where my "trains" just will not allow me, any longer, to live in such a narrow geographic or political world. The answer to these complex questions will not come tonight or tomorrow. But they will not allow any of us to just exist behind the US label or the AF or L label. Guess what.....we got brothers and sisters all over the world who want to run their trains for their kids also. And they want to be able to afford transformers so they can do so. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11227	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: E-BAY HEADS UP

A Warning:: THE item #545393370 234 C&O SWITCHER I bought this switcher, it was advertised as the blue being almost perfect wheh I opened it , it had 2 very noticeable scratches in the blue, Bob's Hobby did take it back.... But are listing it without disclosing the scrsthes . Just a few words to let anyone on this list that the scratches are ther. As I stated Bob's did say they were going to refund my money, So I'm not knocking him for that. Mike S

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11228	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: E-BAY HEADS UP

PS to first post: All I wanted to do was let people know about the scratches NOT to put any judgement on the SELLER. Mike

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11229	From: belairchevy@webtv.net	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: 22034 Transformer

Does anyone have or know of a 110 watt version of the 22034 transformer that came with the larger All Aboard sets. Greenberg says 110 watt, both 22034s in my collection are 50 watt. Can someone shed some light here? Brad [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11230	From: Scott Brown	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: ebay

Few things on ebay get me upset. But I constantly see the K Line AF Repair Manual that is still available for under $30. going for over $100. Tonight I see 2 people are battling it out for the book and it is up to $185. with 30 minutes to go. If any of you don't have this book which is a reprint of the original instructions that came with AF products and is a helpful resource (although it has little in the way of instructions for repairing engines), go to Mark Preman's site www.americanflyertrains.com I believe Doug Peck also carries it at http://portlines.com This is NOT a rare book and is NOT worth more than $30. Scott Brown Atlantic Coast S Gaugers Washington & Old Dominon Division

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11231	From: S-Trains@egroups.com	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, January 21, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11232	From: Euell Johnson	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: Re: Loinel

Tom: You have made some excellent points. My resume has 40 years of manufacturing. I started as an "hourly" employee, went to school at odd hours and got my degree in Industrial Management. I have worked in Budgeting, Industrial Engineering, Quality Control, Purchasing and Line Management. I have been through three plant closings and I don't remember how many buy outs. I have witnessed excellent decisions and management as well as bad decisions and management from the lowest to the highest levels in the enterprise. My point is this, the "problems" faced by Mr. Maddox are not new. Also, they are not unique. Many, if not most, or all, of these problems are the results of short sighted or poor decisions either he or his predecessors have made. One example is that the unions "demand". But it is the company that "gives". Bargaining is the result of give and take by both parties. Over time many companies have given away their dinner table. Yes, the companies give it away. They fail to bargain sufficiently hard. (I would be willing to bet that their managers also failed to bargain for their homes and cars as well.) Lionel is a small dot on the UAW ledger. The International doesn't give a twit about what happens there. Lionel is simply too small. So don't expect any real help from them. Unfortunately the local employees probably really care, but must follow the lead of the International. But what about the company's purchasing practices. Has it really bargained with its suppliers? Go to them and demand a 5% or 10 % across the board reduction in material costs. I bet you can get at least 5% with not a lot of effort. How is the factory floor arranged? Is WIP on the floor or is WIP on a conveyor? How many inventory turns are they achieving? How many turns of WIP. Take a hard look at how the company has used the cash it has generated. Has it invested continually and wisely? Or has it used the cash to pay the Executive Staff outlandish salaries and finance inter-company politics as it often the case. Or to pay out some foolish, ego satisfying leveraged buy out made twenty years ago made at indecent prices with rip-off interest rates? A reading of journals published about and for American manufacturing gives models that almost any business can look at and tell if their expenses are in line. As an example: Direct Labor consists of about eight percent of Sales. Materials consists of about 30% of the Sales dollar. Marketing and delivery costs vary more from one business to the next, but makes up about 25% to 30%. (This includes new product development) Overhead, including Indirect Labor, local taxes, depreciation and upper management salaries, should run less than 20% Earnings Before Tax should be 12% to 16% of Sales. After taxes and bonuses there should be between 6% and 10% for "seed corn", investments into new products, processes and equipment. Exactly what will Lionel save by moving the manufacturing off shore? A more difficult question has to do with their bargaining with their off shore source. Has it improved over their bargaining with their union? This I would have to doubt. A Tiger just doesn't change it's stripes! As a visitor to the manufacturing operation, take a very real, hard look at Safety, Housekeeping and Quality. These are almost always indicators of what management thinks of itself. How often does Mr. Maddox take a tour through the plant? When was the last time the plant was striped and the floors sealed? What are the procedures for sweeping the floor? How does it handle Customer Complaints? What are the true Quality Costs? What is the accident rate and severalties? Are these posted? Are there ongoing programs for corrective action? Yes, local and state taxation and regulation are a real pain. I have made up MSD books. I have filed VOC reports. I know. But has he been to his local POLICY MAKERS and told them of the economic consequences of their laws, rules and regulations? Has he had his congressional representation in for a visit? I think from these questions there is room for Mr. Maddox to do a lot more work before he throws away his "Made in USA" labels. Whether he will do it is another matter. And Tom, I just know you run a better operation than he does. Much success to you. EJ ----- Original Message ----- From: <Thomas@...> To: <s-scale@onelist.com>; <S-Trains@egroups.com> Sent: Friday, January 19, 2001 9:49 AM Subject: [S-Trains] Loinel > Gentlemen, > > Having recent experience in the manufacturing, food processing, and drug industries from a technical and economic viewpoint, I think all the positions expressed are issues the Lionel management has dealt with. I would also like to add a position we are all responsible for. The politically created economic arena. > > When we speak of a world economy and the troubles it brings to us, are we looking at the situation the competitors are in? Their governments encourage business development and growth with many forms of incentives. We see fit to burden our businesses with additional taxes and other restrictions which can force a business to defer upgrades, expansions, and other development which could gain or keep that business competitive. The eastern cities suffer this plague and from my exposure to other parts of the country, it is happening there also. We might give the company a temporary "carrot" to get them to relocate and then hit them with "make up" costs to support the continued incentives offered to the next relocation. > Couple this with the steady stream of owners Lionel has had, who all were/are expecting a reasonable return on their sizeable investments, and we have a plant using ancient equipment, probably marginal facilities, and resulting employee issues which, even a guy like Mr. Maddox would struggle with. > > As far as "made in the USA", I have tried to keep this practice in our products. But money talks! If folks see an American made RDC at $300 or a Chinese made diesel locomotive for $150, which item do you think they prefer. The features of the product, availability of continued support, or the capability to interface directly with the guy who actually designs and builds the units, don't seem to be too important. "What can I get it for?" or "the price is too high for my blood" is the song we hear. So, the good folks like MTH, Willaims, and Quality Craft reach out to get us these great things, put up with the many issues of an importer, invest large capital in development costs, consumers buy the products at great prices, and all is well. > > With this business plan seeming to be the one that works, I say, Mr. Maddox, we the people, have been waiting for you to "get with the program". Oh!, by the way, don't worry about your managers, workers, and office help, they can get jobs working on farms, owned by foreign investors, growing food for the folks you will have manufacturing your goods. Our government will be giving it to them so there will be a steady market there and the machinery is not important! One small problem might develop, farm hands can't afford to buy toy trains! We will need to get the government to give the imports some support so we can afford to but them. > > We can call this the 4th world economy- un-developing a prosperous nation! > > Tom Doherty > Pennsylvania Heritage Models, Ltd. > http://www.paheritagemodels.com > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11233	From: Ktrdd@AOL.com	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: AF Roadbed convert

Hi , I hoped to avoid buying AF repro roadbed or any roadbed whatever. Make my own? Wrong! AF roadbed was luxury many years ago when AF track sections were near 25 - 30 cents each (incredible price right?), so I bought the track instead. AF Roadbed does 1) reduce noise significantly 2) makes AF track look spectacular !! 3) controls derailments to some degree, i.e., wheelsets will tend to ride on the roadbed and give the operator a chance to shutdown the train before a disasterous derail sends equipment for a plunge somewhere 4) adds a little stability to overall track movement, i.e., the rolling equipment tries to shift the track but the roadbed has a little built-in gripping power to hold the track in place on the surface. "Downers" : 1) more ackward to have wires fastened directly to the track --you will have to make a cut or a hole in the roadbed--whichever is your preference. This requires a careful, measured approach--but is easy after a mistake or 2. 2) action items-- (pick up bars, etc..) -haven't seen a remedy for that other than carving up a piece of roadbed somehow? Haven't tried that one yet. 3) roadbed can put "tension" on securing AF track pieces together. Worse yet, you cannot use AF tracklocks on sections. I hate that part. 4) time proven "finger reach" under an AF coupler weight are thwarted! Those high rise ties always gave one a chance to uncouple cars manually on AF track. Well, roadbed reduces that space and creates, well, a choice word or 2 under breath instead of under track. I won't be going back tho---because I am a AF roadbed convert forever!! The repro stuff is better reinforced---look underneath! Thanks again for your help Doug Peck! John R

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11234	From: scott griggs	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: The Real McCoy

Some of you have spotted K-Line/Aurotech reprints of the AF repair manual being bid up to ~$175 on eBay. Incredible as it may seem, there is currently an *original* 1948 AF service station manual available for $77! http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=543681353 What's that old saying about pearls before swine?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11235	From: Clifford Manning	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: repair

I have a 360 B Unit that I want to restore. It is missing set of wheels (truck). Does anyone have one available with the extention that connects to the body? This is a dummy unit. clifma19@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11236	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 1/19/2001
Subject: tender loving care

The statement "Quite frankly American Flyer make (made?) a lot of junk that only works with a lot of tender loving care." has got to be answered. ANY toy train only works with tender loving care. My Flyer ran well all through my childhood and run well now. Yet I never wore one out. Gave them "tender loving care" then and now. Small price to pay. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11237	From: Robert Hannon	Date: 1/20/2001
Subject: A.C.Gilbert S-Gauge Electrical Component Survey : Status

To date, 60 replies to the survey have been received, either directly, or gleaned from the consolidated list. 60 confirmation E-Mails have been sent. If you have not received at least a "Thank You", then your E-Mail was lost (somewhere). Please resend it. Here are the results to the questions so far: 1. Buy It : 55 2. Diagnose Problems: 54 3. Repair/Rewind: 48 4. Publication Media: Web Only 4 Hardbound Only 15 Both 39 No Use For It 2 Among the most notable recommendations were the following: 1. Distribution via CD. 2. Cost tradeoffs (hardcopy .vs. Web publication) for both generating and maintaining the material. 3. Ease of use of hardcopy on a workbench and binding options. The survey will be posted again to this list one more time. To those who took the time to respond ... THANK YOU! Bob Hannon

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11238	From: Robert Hannon	Date: 1/20/2001
Subject: A.C. Gilbert S-Gauge Electrical Repair SURVEY ... Last Submittal

For the last few years, I have experienced an increasing demand (via telephone and E-Mail) for information on diagnosing and repairing armature, field and coil problems. Questions have ranged from "What's your mailing address?" to "What reading should I get on my meter?" to "What gauge wire should I use and where can I get some?" The last two types of queries have led me to post this "survey", which consists of a four-part question: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15 January 2001 If a "book" were to be published which provided detailed diagnostic and repair specifications for most, if not all, A.C. Gilbert S-Gauge electrical component(s): 1. Would you buy it? (Yes or No) 2. Would you use it to diagnose problems? (Yes or No) 3. Would you use it to perform a repair (repair/rewind it yourself)? (Yes or No) 4. Should the book be: a. A Web-based publication b. A traditional hard-copy publication. c. Both. d. None of the above (it shouldn't be published because there is no interest in this kind of information). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Your PERSONAL opinion is important !!! Even if, ESPECIALLY IF, your answer is a resounding NO! to all the questions. Reply either on the list or off the list (whichever you prefer). Feel free to pass this questionnaire on to friends/acquaintances who are not on the list (or don't have internet access), and include their opinions in your reply. This message will be posted one more time this week. In two weeks, I will post a tally back to the list (and/or individually) detailing the results of the "survey". Thanks! Bob Hannon !!!REWINDING!!!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11239	From: busyboy	Date: 1/20/2001
Subject: Re: Please, let's stick to trains!

Toby Loftus wrote: >May we please keep the posts related to what we all agree on: the >love of trains? I've only been on the list a month and have been >really delighted with the great information shared on this list. >My experience is that when talk turns to labor, management, politics, >and religion, no one convinces anyone to change their views, >regardless of the articulation or volume of arguments. >Let's stick to talking *Trains*! Toby: If you want to only talk about trains, then do it. If you don't like the posts about "labor, management, politics, and religion" (and nobody mentioned religion except you), then pass those posts by. I have found the recent discussions to be intellectually stimulating. Members of this list with business and manufacturing experience have shared their enlightening viewpoints. Pro labor and pro-USA opinions were expressed. All of it has been carried on with great civility. I have stayed out of this discussion myself because I'm just another opinion piling on. As it turns out, most angles I could think of were discussed, and from perspectives I could not imagine on my own. Therefore, I would have to disagree with your observation that "no one convinces anyone to change their views, regardless of the articulation or volume of arguments." It is somewhat disingenuous to presume that no one can be swayed from an opinion they hold by persuasive argument and informed discussion. It is somewhat isolationist to retreat into the rose-tinted world of your layout board without addressing the issues of the day that will affect the hobby for years to come. Discussion about the manufacturing aspects of trains and the political and economic climate imposing itself upon the manufacturers, is both on-topic and appropriate for this list. You, of course, are under no obligation to read these posts, but please do not attempt to pressure the list members to refrain from the free and open discussion we have been enjoying. Cordially, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11240	From: busyboy	Date: 1/20/2001
Subject: Re: E-BAY HEADS UP

Mike S wrote: >A Warning:: THE item #545393370 234 C&O SWITCHER >I bought this switcher, it was advertised as the blue being almost perfect >wheh I opened it , it had 2 very noticeable scratches in the blue, Bob's >Hobby did take it back.... But are listing it without disclosing the scrsthes Mike: I went to look at it. This is what they say about this item: "The yellow frame has a few cracks in it the blue is almost perfect the engine will run about 3 Revolutions and stop.Sold AS IS like all our items are, and there are no refunds unless we mis-represent the product." It's pretty straightforward that this is no perfect specimen. I'm amazed that they gave you your money back. One guys "almost perfect" is another guys "noticeable scratches". There are a lot of skeevie sellers on e-Bay. My feeling is that Bob's Hobby is not one of them. Chris Z.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11241	From: busyboy	Date: 1/20/2001
Subject: Re: tender loving care

Tom Jarcho wrote: >The statement "Quite frankly American Flyer make (made?) a lot of junk that >only works with a lot of tender loving care." has got to be answered. >ANY toy train only works with tender loving care. >My Flyer ran well all through my childhood and run well now. Yet I never >wore one out. Gave them "tender loving care" then and now. Small price to pay. Tom: One word . . . Pikemaster. CZ

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11242	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 1/20/2001
Subject: Re: tender loving care

Dear Chris, When the war starts I hope you are on my side, what a great answer. Don > > Tom: > One word . . . Pikemaster. > > CZ > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 40' Billboard Reefers are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11243	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 1/20/2001
Subject: Re: tender loving care

I agree with Tom. One think that attracted me back to American Flyer was the superior operation to HO or N. When something does need attention, it is a size I can manage rather than very small parts utilized in the smaller scale. I am running beautiful engines , some over 50 years old, and they run well. I would not call that junk! Michael jarcho@... wrote: > The statement "Quite frankly American Flyer make (made?) a lot of junk that > only works with a lot of tender loving care." has got to be answered. > > ANY toy train only works with tender loving care. > > My Flyer ran well all through my childhood and run well now. Yet I never > wore one out. Gave them "tender loving care" then and now. Small price to > pay. > > Tom Jarcho > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11244	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 1/20/2001
Subject: Re: tender loving care

Pikemaster....the last effort to keep a dead company alive. 1953 was the best year ever for toy trains for all manufacturers. By the time Pikemaster came on the scene Mr. A.C. Gilbert and J. Lionel Cohen were both out of the picture. Both Lionel and American Flyer were struggling for survivial as the Toy Train boom had more than ended. I collect and operate items made primarily 1946-1958. To me that is American Flyer. Items made in that period are not junk. Michael busyboy wrote: > Tom Jarcho wrote: > >The statement "Quite frankly American Flyer make (made?) a lot of junk that > >only works with a lot of tender loving care." has got to be answered. > >ANY toy train only works with tender loving care. > >My Flyer ran well all through my childhood and run well now. Yet I never > >wore one out. Gave them "tender loving care" then and now. Small price to > pay. > > Tom: > One word . . . Pikemaster. > > CZ > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11245	From: Jeff	Date: 1/20/2001
Subject: Re: tender loving care

Aw, come on, don't dis Pikemaster:) ok, the curves are too tight, the cars were to light (ugh, cheap rhyme) The Casey Jones steamers looked like nothing in existance and the F units, please... I confess, I like Pikemaster stuff. (sob):) Say what you will but you can't kill a CJ steamer! If only someone made a real 4-4-0 steamer body the CJ mechanics would fit into. Why ACG didn't use the Atlantic for the starter sets at least it mirrored some sore of reality, by the PM era they were all about the same, black plastic. They did the best they could with what they had, the market changed and didn't until it was too late. Gilbert joined the great list of companies that failed: Studebaker, Woolworths, Penn Central now Montgomery Wards That's life. At 09:11 AM 1/20/01 -0500, you wrote: >Pikemaster....the last effort to keep a dead company alive. 1953 was the best >year ever for toy trains for all manufacturers. By the time Pikemaster came on >the scene Mr. A.C. Gilbert and J. Lionel Cohen were both out of the picture. Both >Lionel and American Flyer were struggling for survivial as the Toy Train boom had >more than ended. I collect and operate items made primarily 1946-1958. To me >that is American Flyer. Items made in that period are not junk. Michael > >busyboy wrote: > >> Tom Jarcho wrote: >> >The statement "Quite frankly American Flyer make (made?) a lot of junk that >> >only works with a lot of tender loving care." has got to be answered. >> >ANY toy train only works with tender loving care. >> >My Flyer ran well all through my childhood and run well now. Yet I never >> >wore one out. Gave them "tender loving care" then and now. Small price to >> pay. >> >> Tom: >> One word . . . Pikemaster. >> >> CZ >> >> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! >> >> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11246	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/20/2001
Subject: Re: A.C. Gilbert S-Gauge Electrical Repair SURVEY ... Last Submittal

Bob, Can we vote early and often??? :-) S' David PS I don' need no stinkin' survey, if it is clearly and accurately written, it'll sell!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11247	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/20/2001
Subject: Re: tender loving care

Tom, Another word: Baldwin Switcher! (but, yes, it can be tamed) But, I understand one of the visually "junk" units, the F's, run well--I've never had one, didn't like their looks when new! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11248	From: SMITTY@tir.com	Date: 1/20/2001
Subject: tender loving care one more time

Gotta support Jarcho on this one..............to say that ACG "...... produced a lot of junk that ran only with tender loving care....." and then to rationalize this statement with " One word: PikeMaster" is clearly short sighted. I will not disagree that the PikeMaster era of s-gauge equipment left something to be desired, most of us wouldn't. And I would tend to think that the majority of the Gilbert collectors concentrate on what was produced from 1946 to the close of the operating knuckle era, I know I do. Coming to collect and operate Gilbert happened to me as an adult, I never had "smoke and choo-choo" as a kid, so I'm not of the faction of the collector/operators that were raised on two rail, and in fact my childhood trains were a hand-me-down Marx set ( with one-way couplers ) and a Lionel "General" set. I still have those trains, they both survived my juvinile attempts at repairs and customizations. Like most of us, trains played a lesser role through my teen years so when I rediscovered the fun of tinplate rails at an adult age, logically it would seem, that I should have chosen either Lionel or Marx as the product of choice....... but not so........! I'd had Erector sets growing up and in the back of the "How to Make 'Em" book was a full page ad for American Flyer with the 1957 consumer catalogue cover picture with the Hudson-led frieight climbing the trestle. The vision of my trains, smokeless as they are, paled in comparison to the Hudson, so I very innocently started out in the collecting arena of American Flyer. That was in 1981. In the intervening years I've read a lot about the Gilbert company, it's founder and it's products. I've also, by necessity, learned a lot about the inner workings of the s-gauge trains ACG produced. Only recently have I been able to afford some of the really nice condition items, and so fully half of my collection consists of locomotives and accessories that were acquired in less than "Ex++" or "LN" condition, MUCH less ! But with rare exception, even these less- than-perfect condition pieces would run when I got them. Maybe not as well as they did when they were new, but these pieces were all in excess of 30 years old when I got them, and it was obvious from their condition that they weren't handled with kid gloves........just by kids. We were all kids at one time, and how many kids had train races ? Or wound up their crack mainliner to see if it'd take that curve at full speed? Or even to see if it'd jump the ramp we built? And what would be the result ? The engine finished up somewhere other than up-right on the rails ! But unless it was a really catastrophic finale, the engine went back on the tracks and kept on running. Lack of lubrication, brush springs replaced with a ball point pen spring, loose drive tires shorting against the frame, and reverse units with fingers nearly gone because it has been cycled so many times all take it's toll and yet still the engines run. So here we are 30 years and more later taking these same engines under our care, and finding that these pieces, after proper lubrication, proper brush springs and repaired reverse units are ready for yet another 30 or 40 years, hopefully more, since by this time I would think we'd be beyond the "ramp jumping" part of our lives. These pieces don't have ball bearings on the axles or motors, the motors aren't sealed and there's any number of small parts that rotate or reciprocate that are open to wear and binding. But still they run. The sophistication of a 1950 ACG locomotive is a bit less than something Lionel or MTH is making now. And how many of us have heard of problems with recent product-quality from those two manufacturers ? Sure, ACG had problems, they got stiffed on the type of plastic they used for driver insulation, but they not only changed the formula, they also sent out teams of repairmen to fix the afflicted engines. Some of the early molded cars tend to hump, because again, they were on the learning cuve of plastic molding, but they improved and how many cars do you see produced after '47 or '48 that have the humping problem? The company, under the leadership of AC, undertook to build fine, nearly scale, MASS PRODUCED, toy trains. They stood by the product and fixed what broke....look at the still large stock of original replacement parts that Hobby Surplus Sales has. I have a friend that put in a deposit for a MTH N&W J-class, waited many months for it and shortly after getting it, by accident the locomotive went off his layout table. The rear driver broke and some rods were bent. MTH couldn't supply him some of the parts to repair this engine that was less than a year old. Doesn't say much for customer support, does it ? So pardon my lengthy post, but it really aggravates me to see the Gilbert product line known as "junk" simply because of they produced some less-than-great pieces, ie., the PikeMaster era equipment. The market, as some have already stated, was being driven by low cost, 90- day wonder, throw it away "crap" toys. Kids, being impressionable, were lured away from the traditional trains for things like glue- together models, slot cars, etc. Gilbert's response were lower production cost train sets and the hard fact is, lower quality was the result. Gilbert wasn't alone, witness the products Marx offered during this period, and Lionel was having it's own troubles with mark shares and profitability. The bulk of ACG s-gauge trains and accessories were of high quality when they were built, the fact that so many of us continue to search out and collect and operate them 40 or 50 years later is the simplest, most eloquent testimony I can think of. The fact that they continue to run with very little maintenance backs that testimony. Regard"s", Smitty

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11249	From: Nick and Becky Colleran	Date: 1/20/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 882

It is interesting, if not downright amazing, that this 1948 manual includes 5 digit engines and late fifties accessories like the 779 Oil drum loader and 787 log loader (pictured). I guess Gilbert really planned ahead! --- Nick >________________________________________________________________________ > >Message: 17 > Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 03:58:01 -0000 > From: "scott griggs" <sgriggs@...> >Subject: The Real McCoy > >Some of you have spotted K-Line/Aurotech reprints of the AF repair >manual being bid up to ~$175 on eBay. Incredible as it may seem, >there is currently an *original* 1948 AF service station manual >available for $77! > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=543681353 > >What's that old saying about pearls before swine?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11250	From: Rick {bAss-flyer} Evans	Date: 1/20/2001
Subject: Lehigh Valley Train Service (LVTS) liquid smoke

Over at the toytrain site, there have been some posts (including mine on a LTVS site for liquid smoke) on locating this product and is it still being made. The following is one of the lastest posts. Anyone have any info on LTVS?? I have used up a couple of bottles and have one full one left. I have had good luck with the product. And one quick question,...at chat the other night, using scented lamp oil came up. Has anyone had any problems using this oil?? Thanks, Rick ****((In the past I ordered from a supplier in Wisconsin, at dealer discount prices, LVTS scented smoke fluid. Based on a telephone call with the supplier about 2 months ago, scented LVTS smoke is no longer being produced. This supplier tried to purchase the "technology" from LVTS but has had no success. I was further told that all the existing smoke fluid produced had been sold to MTH however, it did not contain the scented additives. It appears the owner of LVTS is keeping the scented additive/formulation, for the time being, to himself.))****

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11251	From: Robert Wight	Date: 1/20/2001
Subject: Lamp oil

Rick; About three years ago at a train meet i picked up a bottle of what was on the label "super smoke". It was some generic smoke of some kind this guy sold. Anyways, it worked well but at $4.50 for a small bottle was alot for me because of the distance to get any or the postage and i used it in no time at all. So i used scented and unscented lamp oil. I get large puffs of smoke and so far it hasnt hurt my steamers. My 342 realy puts it out so does my 322 sit. I have also found that there is two different kinds of lamp oil. I found the cheaper lamp oil that does not say "smokeless" works the best FOR ME. At about $2.00 a quart that is alot better for me. I just refill my super smoke bottle with it. I have been thinking of getting some cedar oil and put it in the scent free lamp oil to get that nice oder too. Happy Railroading Bob Wight --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11252	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 1/20/2001
Subject: S-Video

I have received loads of nice compliments on the video I put out last Fall. Thanks again to all of you. The nice part is that I didn't receive any NEGATIVE comments. That surprises me a little in the light of all the pro and con stuff that goes on here from time to time. I am working diligently on the next edition to come out this year. In the meantime I have found myself with a few copies left over that were ordered by people but never paid for. I am offering them to anyone out there that didn't get in on the ground floor and may want one. I just don't need them setting in my train room looking for an owner. The price is still $12.50 which includes shipping. Regards to all... Steve Blackburn TCA, NASG, RMHR Boise, Idaho [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11253	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 1/20/2001
Subject: Re: Next Fall Get Together

Dear Jeff, The tenative dates are Fall Get-Together, South Amboy, NJ September 28th, 29th & 30th. It has been a busy week here: January 18, 2000 - FedEx delivers 384 remote control switches (#00298 & #00299). January 17, 2000 - Maine Central powere F-3 powered A&B set arrive for review. First test shots of USRA double sheathed boxcars arrive for review. January 16, 2000 - B&O, C&NW, DL&W, NYC (freight & passenger), CB&Q, Southern and SP painted and lettered F-3 A&B units arrive for review. January 15, 2000 - FedEx delivers production samples of 2nd run reefers. Don Thompson > Can you send me any concrete dates and contacts on the fall Jersey > Get-Together for the S - Calendar. I might even be interested in > attending. > > Also, Do you plan on inserting catalogs in the Feb. and/or April > Dispatch. > > Any new product stuff for Feb. I didn't get current flyer, but I did > poke through a catalog. Need stuff that would be timely for about end > of Feb. > > Keep up the good work. Jeff -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 40' Billboard Reefers are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11254	From: JRobbie99@aol.com	Date: 1/20/2001
Subject: Re: Lehigh Valley Train Service (LVTS) liquid smoke

LVTS is in fact out of business. It was a fine product that would work even in gummed up AF smokers. I purchased the last 16 bottles from Nick Smith in Broomall, PA. Have not seen it anywhere at any store or show since. Hope they do start up production again.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11255	From: Gary McCullah	Date: 1/20/2001
Subject: Lionel Closure

If anyone has a contact at Lionel, let them know that Arkansas can use the jobs and has low labor costs and plenty of available facilities. Recent layoffs and plant closings in central and south Arkansas have hit hard and these folks are really in need. The recent ice storm didn't help. Gary

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11256	From: Dwight Lehnhoff	Date: 1/20/2001
Subject: smoke fluid

I have not been able to find cedar oil anywhere. Does anyone know a source? Dwight Lehnhoff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11257	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 1/20/2001
Subject: Re: S-Video

Okay, here's a negative comment. It was too short! Roger Petrella Franktown, CO boss31@... wrote: > I have received loads of nice compliments on the video I put out last Fall. > Thanks again to all of you. The nice part is that I didn't receive any > NEGATIVE comments. That surprises me a little in the light of all the pro and > con stuff that goes on here from time to time. I am working diligently on the > next edition to come out this year. In the meantime I have found myself with > a few copies left over that were ordered by people but never paid for. I am > offering them to anyone out there that didn't get in on the ground floor and > may want one. I just don't need them setting in my train room looking for an > owner. The price is still $12.50 which includes shipping. > > Regards to all... > > Steve Blackburn TCA, NASG, RMHR > Boise, Idaho > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11258	From: Mac	Date: 1/20/2001
Subject: (no subject)

From: Roger Hinds <cofa@...> Subject: Re: Breaking Lionel News? > The company employees were union members. Real bright ! A good way to kill a >company >in this line of business. Roger - I find it troubling that you blame the union for the closure of the plant. After having been a union member for the past twenty some odd years, and receiving a union negotiated benefit package that has kept me alive and fed after a heart attack, I kind of take offense at the assumption. When management fails to its job properly in terms of the products it makes, the way it makes them, the price it charges or the distribution network it established, then the results of those decisions are managements responsibility. Further, if management waits until the plant is ready to be closed before discussing cost saving efforts with the union, again it's the managements responsibility. The union has not refused to discuss efficiency or productivity initiatives, management has simply refused to ask or participate. The workers do their jobs to the best of their ability. Companies moving out of the US deserve all the blame for abdicating the debt they owe the community and the workers that served them well for so long. Mac Same Circus, Different Clowns

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11259	From: Bob or Deb Guckian	Date: 1/20/2001
Subject: (no subject)

For cedar wood oil for your smoke fluid, check out www.xenex.hcsn.com/locations.ihtml Xenex Laboratories Inc., Seattle, Washington. Approximately $9/oz. Product code #0C180 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11260	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 1/20/2001
Subject: Re: blatant F-3 promotion with jpegs

I have uploaded a few detail shots of the factory painted and lettered F-3s that we received last week. I guess the biggest change is in the font and size of the numbers in the numberboards. You can find these at: http://www.egroups.com/group/showcaseline You may need to join to view the files. Don T. -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 40' Billboard Reefers are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11261	From: The Reis's	Date: 1/20/2001
Subject: Re: Need Advise regarding Flyer Rubber Roadbed

I use all flyer track, over 300 sections and 20 switches. I have mostly original rubber roadbed with it. I bought it all when it was cheaper about 10 years ago and some friends wanted to get rid of it. The original stuff comes in either black or grey and a couple of different patterns (tie imprint shapes). The nice thing is that it can be easily painted with a flat black paint to look like new or change the grey to black. I have some of the repro roadbed and it is better reinforced but either will work pretty much equally as well. The trains do run quieter as opposed to bare track and the look is of course much better than bare track but I would use whichever you can find for the best deal. eric reis kenmore, wa. -----Original Message----- From: Joseph R. Craig [mailto:gunrjoe@...] Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 9:44 PM To: S-Trains@egroups.com Subject: [S-Trains] Need Advise regarding Flyer Rubber Roadbed My layout is 99.9% original flyer including track. Thought I might want to try rubber roadbed on at least one mainline to start but at about 50' in length this represents something of an investment. Is the roadbed actually a good idea? Is original roadbed OK or is it better to buy reproduction new roadbed as it is advertised with some additives to the rubber? Also thanks for the great discussions on the talking station. It is on my want list and would have bought one without knowing some pitfalls but for the info I just gleaned from the list. S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11262	From: John Simkovich	Date: 1/20/2001
Subject: HO American Flyer

Hello Everyone, I recently was given a american flyer HO model, and was just wondering if there is anywhere that I can get a schematic or also parts for such a steam locomotive???? Thanks John [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11263	From: The Reis's	Date: 1/20/2001
Subject: American model Pennsy PA1's

I have a pair of Pennsy Tuscan color American models PA 1's. Yes both A's. One powered and one dummy. High Rail AC power. Different numbers. I would be willing to sell them for $280 for the pair plus shipping or trade the shells for Union Pacific shells or........? Any offers? eric reis kenmore, wa.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11264	From: belairchevy@webtv.net	Date: 1/20/2001
Subject: The dreaded Pikemaster

I started out several years ago to replace an All Aboard set (yes, the dreaded pikemaster) my brother and I had as kids. About 75 scenic panels and an All Aboard website later you can't shoehorn another piece into my trainroom. It may not have the quality of the postwar stuff and yes, you have to "tinker" with it once in a while, but that's part of the fun. My collection also includes Flyer postwar and even a little bit of "L" but I still LOVE MY PIKEMASTER! Long live the 21168! Brad

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11265	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/20/2001
Subject: blatant F-3 promotion with jpegs---WOW!!

Hi all, WOW, these look even better than the sample shells at San Jose! The only thing I noticed was the rear didn't have the buffer plate and the vestibule light! The level of detail, including small things, like the bolts that hold down the fan grill covers, lifting rings on the roof panels, man, it's amazing! And I think I may be one of the few in these groups who has sanded almost every surface of the "real thang" --a great way to remember all the bumps and crevices (as they are a pain to get paint ready). Some of the pics were like deja-vue, except I didn't see any rust! Gads, drool shorting out my keyboard. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11266	From: busyboy	Date: 1/20/2001
Subject: American Flyer orig. service manual & parts

Re: American Flyer orig. service manual & parts Item #543681353 Nick: It's an updatable loose-leaf binder style book. As new sheets were printed and mailed out, the service station manager would add them to the binder. Some of the earliest pages would have been included in the original in 1948. Every year there would be additions. This book may actually be missing some items never entered or taken out and never replaced. The shop this book came from may also have not operated 'til the end of production, so there may be an earlier cut-off date. The most valuable of these, I would think, would be the oldest available binder (1946?) with every sheet printed through the closing of the ACG plant. Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11267	From: Bill Porter	Date: 1/21/2001
Subject: Model Engineering Works

Hi Brethren, I tried to contact John Carlson at Model Engineering Works in Kansas City. The line is no longer in service and information service has none. Have I missed a notice about him or his business? I looked though the archives, but I found no message with MEW as the topic. Later, Bill Porter wpporter@... 561 791 1781 15212 79th Court N Loxahatchee, FL 33470 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11268	From: busyboy	Date: 1/21/2001
Subject: Pikemaster

Gee Smitty, you woulda made a helluva politician! Even Dubya kept his inaugural speech down to 14 minutes, but of course, he wasn't passionately responding to a one word post! Pikemaster was AC Gilbert's attempt to get out of competition with Lionel and get into competition with Marx. Enjoying the line is a guilty pleasure to which I have, at times, succumbed. Had Gilbert built Pikemaster in it's early years, there would no doubt be some wonderful old tinplate to collect. As it is, collecting PM is a specialty. The products are toys with toy-like charm. We tend to speak of them pejoratively because they represent the declining years of a company that made some great trains. If they were all ACG ever made, they would be treasured collectibles with no detractors. I am looking to bring together American train collectors and operators, from both sides of the tracks. At times, I know, it seems we share a hobby, but not a single passion. And though we are divided, I still believe we can get things done, for the good of the gauge and for the good of train afficionados everywhere. God bless you all, and God bless S-gauge. Chris W. Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11269	From: Scott Brown	Date: 1/21/2001
Subject: Re: A.C. Gilbert S-Gauge Electrical Repair SURVEY

Bob, I would answer yes to questions 1-3 and (C) for question 4. I hope this means you or someone else is thinking about writing such a book. I have been continually frustrated in my attempts to repair my AF engines. I am a very visual person, so I would like to suggest that such a book have lots and lots of pictures or diagrams showing exactly what should be done. I get lost with just written directions as some part names are confusing. I was greatly helped with my steam engine wiring problems by a diagram Tom Jarco sent me. It was just pictures of the different engines and where the wires are connected. Now, here is a thought...........what about a video like the ones available for the "O" crowd ? That way we could see someone do the actual repair. (Gee, Steve, that would be a good money making video project for you. ) Thanks for listening, Scott Brown Atlantic Coast S Gaugers Washington & Old Dominion Division

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11270	From: Scott Brown	Date: 1/21/2001
Subject: Re: tender loving care

I have to agree with Jeff. My first AF train was a Pioneer set with the infamous Casey Jones 21165 Erie engine. I still have that set and am amazed at how many cars (12 to 15) that little engine can pull around the track at lightning speed. If only I could get my 312 and 322 to pull like that !!! LOL Scott Brown Atlantic Coast S Gaugers Washington & Old Dominion Division

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11271	From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton	Date: 1/21/2001
Subject: Electrical repair manual

My responses: 1. Yes 2. yes 3. Yes 4. either b. or a. Thanks Steve Pendleton [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11272	From: Thomas E Hillery	Date: 1/21/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 883

Re: electrial survey 1 yes 2 yes 3 yes 4 web based -Tom Hillery

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11273	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 1/21/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] American model Pennsy PA1's

While we are on the subject of PAs, I have an unpowered PA b unit in Penny colors for sale or trade. cheers The Reis's wrote: > I have a pair of Pennsy Tuscan color American > models PA 1's. Yes both A's. One powered and one > dummy. > High Rail AC power. Different numbers. > > I would be willing to sell them for $280 for the > pair plus shipping or trade the shells for Union > Pacific shells or........? > > Any offers? > > eric reis > kenmore, wa. > > The topic is S Scale please keep your messages 'on-topic'. > To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11274	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 1/21/2001
Subject: Re:

Mac wrote: > From: Roger Hinds <cofa@...> > Subject: Re: Breaking Lionel News? > > The company employees were union members. Real bright ! A good way to > kill a > >company > >in this line of business. > > Roger - > I kind of take offense at the assumption. I agree that unions are valuable to employees. However there is one item about the union that is bad. They protect employees that don't deserve it. Goof off, Guys that just can't do a good job no matter how hard they try, trouble makers. I belonged to a union. A lot of guys deserved to get booted out. But the union stopped. Perhaps your union gets rid of the bad guys? I doubt it. Fix that one thing and unions would be perfect. About unions protecting guys with medical, racial, sex, and creed situations. This is great. Make sure a person gets paid good. Great! Gotta go, church awaits Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11275	From: Tom Rolfsmeyer	Date: 1/21/2001
Subject: Re: blatant F-3 promotion with jpegs

You know Don that this just makes the waiting much worse. I do belong to the baby boomers crowd and we were brought up to expect immediate gradification. Good thing I have mellowed out in my later years. These pictures just confirm what I have though about your business all along. You make a quality product at a reasonable price with attention to detail and customer service. I just can't wait much longer to recieve my F3's, it is just killing me ;-). Tom Rolfsmeyer

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11276	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 1/21/2001
Subject: HO American Flyer

John, I have a Greenberg copy of the American Flyer Service Manual which has some drawings and parts lists for Gilbert HO equipment. If you tell me which locomotive you have, I'll send you a copy of whatever pertinent information is in the book. Regards, Roger Delthony

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11277	From: gino restivo	Date: 1/21/2001
Subject: Robert Hannon 's book / rewinding

thanks bob , very fast and excellant job on armature .... your book of spec's with photo's was great , covered everthing on flyer , i want 2 , theirs no doubt 1 would be worn out from use , enjoyed the visit ! please let us know on the other book when ready ; gino [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11278	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 1/21/2001
Subject: American Chrome

http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/chrome/chrome.html The American Chrome collection cars have arrived! See ya tonight! -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://S-Trains.com (alt e-mail PaulYorke@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11279	From: Rick {bAss-flyer} Evans	Date: 1/21/2001
Subject: Re: American Chrome

Great pics Paul!!! You're having some fun there!! Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11280	From: S-Trains@egroups.com	Date: 1/21/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, January 21, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11281	From: Ktrdd@AOL.com	Date: 1/21/2001
Subject: AF Roadbed convert

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11282	From: Ted Walton	Date: 1/21/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 883

At 05:05 AM 1/21/2001 +0000, you wrote: >Message: 3 > Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2001 05:52:52 -0500 > From: "busyboy" <busyboy@...> >Subject: Re: Please, let's stick to trains! > >Toby Loftus wrote: >>May we please keep the posts related to what we all agree on: the love of trains? << Chris Zizzo replied: >Toby: >If you want to only talk about trains, then do it. If you don't like the posts about "labor, management, politics, and religion" (and nobody >mentioned religion except you), then pass those posts by.... but please do not attempt to pressure the list members to refrain from the free and open discussion we have been enjoying.< OK, OK - What have you guys done with Chris Zizzo? Who is impersonating him? Have you tied him up in some old shack along a little used rail siding leading to an abandon cool mine and tortured him. I can't believe the old " Two To Go" Chris Zizzo would have willingly written the above. The frustration he so elegantly expressed in the pass on wasteful, useless, and inaccurate drivel that appears on the train boards now and then will be deeply missed. Wait a minute, could he have had a skiing accident and is laid up in bed with hours to spend on how the train consumers are going to work out the problems for little old Lionel. Or could he have retired? No, he would have to be old to retire and realize he has precious little time left to waste on such useless discussions. Oh, for the good old days when Lional trains were made in the USA and Chris would be on the side of relevance, usefulness, and .... oh, I guess I have just lived too long. How sad things are. Goodbye, and may the old Chris rest in peace. Ted Walton TCA 73-5055

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11283	From: Rick {bAss-flyer} Evans	Date: 1/21/2001
Subject: Dr. No's '57 Chevy by Johnny Lightning....

If you've seen Johnny Lightning's American Chrome series, in person or by the pics that Paul just posted, and like the cars, be on the look-out for the Johnny Lightning James Bond 007 series!! Just picked up a real nice black w/black interior 1957 Chevy convertible from the "Dr. No" bond flick!! Fits right in with the American Chrome. I found it at Target. Looks like to be six cars in this series. And to Paul,....love those pics you posted!! I printed out a copy! Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11284	From: tsbikes@trailsidebikes.com	Date: 1/21/2001
Subject: diesel horn generator

Hi Folks, This is probablya simple task but I would rather ask than ruin some of my favorite AF equipment. I acquired a 499 New Haven electric at Yorkthis fall and just found a diesel horn generator for it. I need to know how to wire the generator properly to operate the #499. The generator has four wires:red, yellow, green, black with the black intermitantly switched through the button. Can anyone helpme give voice to my beloved 499? Thanks, Jim Grimes TCA #97-45877

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11285	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/21/2001
Subject: Re: diesel horn generator

Red wire from control box to 7-15V post. Yellow wire from control box to 15V post. Black wire from control box to base post. Green wire from control box to non-base rail. Black wire from transformer base post to base rail. Be sure no other wires run =direect from the transformer to the track. (If you have any other jumper feeds to the non-base rail make sure they all come off the green wire between the control box and the track. tsbikes@... wrote: > > Hi Folks, > > This is probablya simple task but I would rather ask than ruin > some of my favorite AF > equipment. > I acquired a 499 New Haven electric at Yorkthis fall and just > found a diesel horn generator for > it. I need to know how to wire the generator properly to operate the > #499. The generator has > four wires:red, yellow, green, black with the black intermitantly > switched through the button. > Can anyone helpme give voice to my beloved 499? > > Thanks, > Jim Grimes > TCA #97-45877 > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11286	From: Al Paolozzi	Date: 1/21/2001
Subject: Re: American Chrome

Someone mentioned that the American Chrome cars were available at Target. I assume that they sell individually. How much do they go for? They sure are good looking. Paul where did you find the vehicle transport shown? Thanks Al ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Yorke" <yorke@...> To: <s-scale@egroups.com>; <s-trains@egroups.com> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2001 12:51 PM Subject: [S-Trains] American Chrome > http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/chrome/chrome.html > The American Chrome collection cars have arrived! > See ya tonight! > -- > Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. > American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers > http://S-Trains.com (alt e-mail PaulYorke@...) > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11287	From: cbrf@snet.net	Date: 1/21/2001
Subject: "book" survey

1. yes 2. yes 3. yes 4. both

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11288	From: Al Paolozzi	Date: 1/21/2001
Subject: Re: American Chrome

Someone mentioned that the American Chrome cars were available at Target stores. I assume that they sell individually. How much are they each? They sure are good looking vehicles. Paul where did you find the vehicle transport truck? Thanks amflyral@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Yorke" <yorke@...> To: <s-scale@egroups.com>; <s-trains@egroups.com> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2001 12:51 PM Subject: [S-Trains] American Chrome > http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/chrome/chrome.html > The American Chrome collection cars have arrived! > See ya tonight! > -- > Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. > American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers > http://S-Trains.com (alt e-mail PaulYorke@...) > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11289	From: Rick {bAss-flyer} Evans	Date: 1/21/2001
Subject: Re: American Chrome

I have not seen the American Chrome at my local Target, but did find the Bond series that I mentioned in an earliar post at Target. Page nine in the Jan/Feb issue of S gaugian says the American Chrome are available through Scenery Unlimited for $29.95 + $6.75 shipping for the six cars in the set. I paid $2.99 each at a local hot rod shop. I believe the '57 Chevy from the Bond series was $3.99 at Target. Wal-Mart at times is a good source for Johnny Lightning. Scenery Unlimited also has the military vehicles from Johnny Lightning. Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11290	From: Rick {bAss-flyer} Evans	Date: 1/21/2001
Subject: membership numbers.......

Wow!! We're up to 602 members!!! The list is growing!! Paul,...are you passing out money?? ;-) Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11291	From: McIlvaine, Robert	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: Re: DC

David said: > Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2001 08:51:50 -0800 > From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> > Subject: Re: please help re DC radio shack rectifier? > > Doug, > Not a stupid question at all, few are (Well maybe, > "What's so good about > AF?" might qualify ;-) ). <snip>...but also many parts work better on AC, the > uncouplers have > better performance, as they vibrate as well as lift the coupler, Having switched my engines to DC, but not having tried uncouplers I have to ask: Don't they still vibrate? The simple diode conversions I have seen actually produce pulsating DC, not pure DC. I would expect this DC voltage would still cause the coil to vibrate, granted, at a higher frequency and lower mechanical amplitude. I could be, and probably am, off base here...I'll have to take a look at the Greenberg manual and see the circuit for the uncoupler since I don't own one. Regards, Mac

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11292	From: art king	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: lionel lock's out employee's

they have locked out their employee's & told the press to get off the property ! on local new's this morning. art king [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11293	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: "Repro" AF Accessories; Operating Cars

My list of old American Flyer accessories that I would like to see preproduced by Lyin'L, MTH, etc.: 1. Baggage Smasher (always wanted one; missed out on 2 at York 4 years ago) 2. 761/23761 Semaphore (or new improved semaphore by SHS) 3. Cow-on-the-Track (with a realistically-sized cow) 4. Automated piggy back car unloader/loader (built around the Gilbert accessory) 5. Gabe the Lamplighter (but improved by requiring Gabe to go back up the ladder to turn the light off with an automatic return down the ladder) Note that I love Gilbert accessories, but would like to see them be improved (ala what old AC would do with them today). Here's another question. I love both operating accessories and operating cars. What "AF" operating cars would you like to see? My favorites (many of which would be fairly easy to produce) are: 1. 919 Coal (Ore) Dump Car 2. "Smitty" the Walking Brakeman boxcar 3. 914 Log Dump Car 4. Exploding boxcar (always loved this; new, improved plastics could build one that lasts) 5. Hopper car with operating bottom dump and coal ramp (admittedly this is something new, but I can dream, can't I?) Are you getting these down, Don? ;<) Joe ===== Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,100 part lines American Models ########################## S-Helper Service Official Licensed Dealer for Gilbert Reproductions joestrainrepair@... Master Charge/Visa __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11294	From: Roy Inman	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: Locked out Lionel

So sometimes internet stuff really is true. End of an era folks. Love it or hate it, Lionel in the USA was our last, living link to the wistful, nostalgic days of our youth (well, the youth of some of us old enough to remember). It gave me and my buddies something to argue about: the real Flyer two-rail vs the three-rail Lionel. Regards, Roy Inman

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11295	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: Lionel and promised AF production

Hi all, With the latest news of the factory gates being locked this AM, what chance do you suppose there is for this year's production, including the promised AF stuff? What happened to all that money they just leveraged?? There's more here than meets the (internet) eye. Well, I'd better get to work, or the bank will lock ME out of my house! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11296	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: Re: DC

Robert, Hmm, maybe. I know the first time I tried to quiet down my operating caboose, I used just a diode, and it still vibrated some, and didn't work to well either! I changed to a rectifier chip, and life was MUCH better, in fact, it seemed to slow down the action, providing a bit more realism. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11297	From: Dwight Lehnhoff	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: re rectifier chip

what is a rectifier chip?? What are the values? Dwight Lehnhoff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11298	From: McIlvaine, Robert	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: Re: DC

David, Sounds about right. The diode would give you half of the AC wave form. So, without getting into the nitty gritty electricity, you would get power only during half of the AC waveform. With the rectifier chip (4 diodes in a bridge connection) you would get power during the entire AC cycle. More technically, your average power to the coil is higher with the diode bridge. Regards, Mac > -----Original Message----- > From: David Dewey [mailto:djdewey@...] > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 11:15 AM > To: S-Trains@egroups.com; McIlvaine, Robert > Subject: Re: [S-Trains] RE: DC > > > Robert, > Hmm, maybe. I know the first time I tried to quiet down > my operating > caboose, I used just a diode, and it still vibrated some, and > didn't work to > well either! I changed to a rectifier chip, and life was MUCH > better, in > fact, it seemed to slow down the action, providing a bit more realism. > S' > David D. >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11299	From: busyboy	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: I am the real Chris Zizzo

Dear 1/64thers: Too bad it takes 64 S-gaugers to cast a vote, we might have affected the outcome of this past election. Hi everybody! The Chat Room was buzzin' like a stuck relay last night. At one point 15 of us were crammed in there, all talking about turntables. Paul, you've got to figure out some way to serve refreshments if you're going to draw these crowds. When I turned on the voice feature I was broadcasting nationally! That was very cool. Ted Walton passed a strange comment in the chat room about me being the real "Two to Go" Chris Zizzo and not some other persona. It went over my head until I got today's digest. Funny the reputation you can get. Yes, I have jumped on people for a variety of reasons in the past, but usually not for engaging in open discussions of a relatively "on-topic" nature. There have been forays into aircraft, ships, other hobbies, military life and so on. I remember speaking up when that stuff went into its 5th. or 6th. day. This discussion was about the manufacturing process of toy trains, including basic considerations of good business practice as it related to Lionel and company. Our enjoyment of trains has always been inextricably tied to the fortunes of Lionel. One of my pet peeves is the use of "Lyin L" or "The 'L' Word" in posts on this list. Without Lionel, there would probably have never been an A.C. Gilbert American Flyer Line. At the moment, they own the future of Flyer and are such big players in the toy train world, their comings and goings will affect the market for all train manufacturers. I can't think of anything more on-topic. I have not contributed to this latest Lionel string because so many of you spoke quite eloquently and I thought that my comments would be redundant, even to the point of defending union employees. Of course, if you liked the bad old Chris Zizzo, I could start up with the grammar and spelling posts again! Whatever you feel you need, I'm here for ya babe! Clear on the hanger, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11300	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: New enthusiasm??

OK gang, here's a comment on my video that I just had to pass along. The suggestion of a "how to" video has been on my mind for sometime now too, so maybe??......................See comment below My husband Mike purchased your video and we watched it together.   I normally am not as enthused as he is about model trains, but I personally wanted to write you and tell you what a wonderful time I had watching this.  It has definitely drawn my interest in this hobby my husband has loved for so many years.   I am looking forward to your next production.   Please let us know if and when it will be coming out. Thank you for giving me such a pleasurable evening. Sincerely, Dorothy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11301	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: Re: re rectifier chip

I believe the "rectifier chip" referred to was actually a bridge rectifier. They kind of look like a chip- an approx. 3/4" square x 1/4" thick black shape with 4 stiff wires attached. You can see one on the parts rack at any Radio Shack store. Rated in amps and volts. The 4 amp 50 volt size is good for installing in a Flyer potor for DC operation withpolarity reversing. Dwight Lehnhoff wrote: > > what is a rectifier chip?? What are the values? > > Dwight Lehnhoff > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11302	From: Rick {bAss-flyer} Evans	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: Re: DC & Realism.....

David Dewey says.... *(((Hmm, maybe. I know the first time I tried to quiet down my operating caboose, I used just a diode, and it still vibrated some, and didn't work to well either! I changed to a rectifier chip, and life was MUCH better, in fact, it seemed to slow down the action, providing a bit more realism. S' David D.)))* Realism?? On my railroad my people hussle!! I keep the coffee going for my little dude in his 977 Caboose!! Keep moving,..faster, faster!! I wish I could move that quick!! No chance though,... Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11303	From: busyboy	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: American Flyer 313 PRR Steamer EX+

This listing: American Flyer 313 PRR Steamer EX+ Item #543132194 is up to $280.58 with 3 days to go. What is a 313? 312 is well known and 125-150 will buy a nice one. 314 is 314AW, the 312's more desirable sister with the whistle. What is a 313? The picture shows a very nice looking Pacific with 313 under the window. Thanks, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11304	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: "Repro" AF Accessories, Operating Cars

I would like to see absolutely NO AF accessories and operating cars reproduced. Zero, zip, zilch,nada, nothing. First, the originals didn't work all that well, and it should be possible to produce items that do a lot more, a lot more reliably. Second, every time an item is reproduced, it lowers the value of most originals. It's just like someone reaching into my pocket, taking out some dollars, and putting them in his pocket. I never have and never will purchase any item made by any company that has reproduced an item that I own the original of. Joe, here are just a few problems with the items you mention: The baggage smasher buzzes really loudly. The semaphore is about correctly sized for standard gauge. The cow on track has a plastic gear train that doesn't hold up to heavy use. The piggyback unloader never worked for most of us because it's hard to spot a flyer freight car accurately enough with 3 pole motors and reverse units. The 919 coal dump car breaks at the hinges. The 914 log dump throws logs three feet. and on and on... Why just perpetuate the mistakes of the past? What I would like to see is a nationwide design contest for one accessory and one action car, to be manufactured in both S and O gauges. I would like to see a coal loader with a coal screw design that could load a bunch of cars in a short time. Clamshell bucket loaders take more than 5 minutes to load one car. I'd also like it to look like a coal facility, not a Christmas tree. That's just one of many possibilities. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11305	From: John Foley	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: Fwd: Tours at NASG Steamtown Convention

>Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 12:53:43 -0500 >To: "S-Scale@egroups" <S-Scale@egroups.com>, "s-trains@egroups" ><s-trains@egroups>, Sn3 Digest <Sn3@egroups.com> >From: John Foley <foley164@...> >Subject: Tours at NASG Steamtown Convention > >Hi Folks > If interested I will send an attachment with the NASG >Steamtown 2001 convention Tours order forms. >Please send your request off list to foley164@... >Thanks > John Foley

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11306	From: Rick {bAss-flyer} Evans	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: Re: American Flyer 313 PRR Steamer EX+

Chris, According to the new TM American Flyer guide,...the PRR #313 was produced in '55 & '56. Small motor going for $260.00 and a large motor going for $300.00. That's all I can tell you! Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11307	From: Rick {bAss-flyer} Evans	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: Re: "Repro" AF Accessories, Operating Cars

Tom J. says,... **(((Every time an item is reproduced, it lowers the value of most originals. It's just like someone reaching into my pocket, taking out some dollars, and putting them in his pocket. I never have and never will purchase any item made by any company that has reproduced an item that I own the original of.)))** I can see Tom's point somewhat,...If you flood the market with $150.00 Gabes, who will pay $800.00 plus for an original?? However,... ..if a collector REALLY wants an AF original, instead of a copy, wouldn't He/She still be willing to shell out the big bucks for one?? I would love to have an original Gabe the Lamplighter,..because Gilbert made it, it's old, it's original. If I had the big bucks, I would have bid on one by now on ebay! But, I'll have to make do with a re-production. I just don't think that a serious AF collector would settle for a cheaper re-production. And Tom,....why WOULD you purchase a re-production ifn' you already have an original?? Rick. :-)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11308	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: smoke fluid

LVTS made great product. Especially the "S-Gauge" in AF trains. I once talked to the owner on the phone (nice guy, collects civil war cannons) to find out why his product was so hard to find. He told me about two dealers in my area to check with. They used to have it, but no longer. I've tried Super Smoke (too thick), MTH ProtoSmoke, and lamp oil. I lace the lamp oil with cedar oil concentrate which I found in the aromatherapy section of a nature foods/nutrition store (small bottle in a box). It smokes like mad, but does have some "after-odor". I like to use it at shows, especially outdoors. If no other option, ProtoSmoke isn't bad (used to be made by LVTS), assuming it's still available? ProtoSmoke is just a little wimpy - - more whispy than thick puffs of smoke. Curious about RFGiardinia's "original" formula American Flyer smoke fluid. There's nothing of course like the real thing, so RFG's will likely be what I try next some day. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11309	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: Re: "Repro" AF Accessories, Operating Cars

Tom, I value your input and knowledge on AF items and don't mean to knock you for your opinion, but I'll have to disagree with you on the repro idea. To some extent, I tend to agree with your basic premise about originals losing value when a reproduction is made, but I don't really think it is the case. I really haven't seen much of a decrease in value of original accessories (for which repros are made) over the last couple of years, in fact, most still increase in value. Take the Gabe or other light towers for example. Some of the MIB repro cars now even command prices approaching that of the original Gilbert model in a lower grade condition. Besides, many originals that have repro parts added for lost or broken parts, still command almost as high a price as all original pieces in otherwise the same overall condition. Most makers clearly mark exact repros or change some part (i.e. use of a can motor) that clearly identifies the item as a repro to the informed buyer. There is a distinct difference in value between these and originals. And, the value of these items is only there in a person's mind and "on paper" if you don't sell them. If you're not selling the item, you personally haven't lost any money anyway. Sure, a lot of the AF accessories didn't work that great, had poorly designed or low quality parts, or were not to scale. But I think that those of us who use the accessories on toy or non-scale layouts or even mix them with scale scenery, do so more for the memory of these items in our (way to distant) childhood. I now have some of the accessories that I wished for, but that my parents just couldn't afford to buy, me as a child. I still can't afford many items I would like to have now. This is where I feel that quality reproductions have a definite place. How else can a person buy an original 785 coal loader or Gabe for the current retail price of the repros? They are not exactly the same and don't carry the prestige of an original, but still help to bring back memories. Some people just don't care if it is a true original as long as they get the same feeling using it as they did as a kid. These things are toys to play with! Personally, I would like to see more items made. Sorry to be on the soap box here guys, just had to say my say. Roger Petrella Franktown, CO jarcho@... wrote: > I would like to see absolutely NO AF accessories and operating cars > reproduced. Zero, zip, zilch,nada, nothing. > > First, the originals didn't work all that well, and it should be possible > to produce items that do a lot more, a lot more reliably. Second, every > time an item is reproduced, it lowers the value of most originals. It's > just like someone reaching into my pocket, taking out some dollars, and > putting them in his pocket. I never have and never will purchase any item > made by any company that has reproduced an item that I own the original of. > > Joe, here are just a few problems with the items you mention: > The baggage smasher buzzes really loudly. > The semaphore is about correctly sized for standard gauge. > The cow on track has a plastic gear train that doesn't hold up to heavy use. > The piggyback unloader never worked for most of us because it's hard to > spot a flyer freight car accurately enough with 3 pole motors and reverse > units. > The 919 coal dump car breaks at the hinges. > The 914 log dump throws logs three feet. > and on and on... > > Why just perpetuate the mistakes of the past? > > What I would like to see is a nationwide design contest for one accessory > and one action car, to be manufactured in both S and O gauges. > > I would like to see a coal loader with a coal screw design that could load > a bunch of cars in a short time. Clamshell bucket loaders take more than 5 > minutes to load one car. I'd also like it to look like a coal facility, > not a Christmas tree. That's just one of many possibilities. > > Tom Jarcho > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11310	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: Re: smoke fluid

I have Giardina's smoke fluid and it is pretty good. Nothing brings back the memories of the stuff my dad made for our AF trains (and gave to my uncles as well). It was some kind of mix of cedar oil, camphor oil and mineral oil, the formula for which he got from an AF service guy. Unfortunately, when I asked him about what he used before he died several years ago, he couldn't remember the formula. Roger Petrella Franktown, CO david_horn@... wrote: > LVTS made great product. Especially the "S-Gauge" in AF trains. I once > talked to the owner on the phone (nice guy, collects civil war cannons) to > find out why his product was so hard to find. He told me about two dealers > in my area to check with. They used to have it, but no longer. I've tried > Super Smoke (too thick), MTH ProtoSmoke, and lamp oil. I lace the lamp oil > with cedar oil concentrate which I found in the aromatherapy section of a > nature foods/nutrition store (small bottle in a box). It smokes like mad, > but does have some "after-odor". I like to use it at shows, especially > outdoors. If no other option, ProtoSmoke isn't bad (used to be made by > LVTS), assuming it's still available? ProtoSmoke is just a little wimpy - - > more whispy than thick puffs of smoke. Curious about RFGiardinia's > "original" formula American Flyer smoke fluid. There's nothing of course > like the real thing, so RFG's will likely be what I try next some day. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11311	From: JRobbie99@aol.com	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: Re: American Flyer 313 PRR Steamer EX+

Chris, its a 316 with the Air Chime Whistle removed.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11312	From: scott griggs	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: Re: "Repro" AF Accessories; Operating Cars

How about operating mail car mechanisms in more than just the New Haven style baggage car? --- In S-Trains@egroups.com, Joseph Haenn <joestrainrepair@y...> wrote: > My list of old American Flyer accessories that I would > like to see preproduced by Lyin'L, MTH, etc.: > > 1. Baggage Smasher (always wanted one; missed out > on 2 at York 4 years ago) > 2. 761/23761 Semaphore (or new improved semaphore > by SHS) > 3. Cow-on-the-Track (with a realistically-sized cow) > 4. Automated piggy back car unloader/loader (built > around the Gilbert accessory) > 5. Gabe the Lamplighter (but improved by requiring > Gabe to go back up the ladder to turn the light off > with an automatic return down the ladder) > > Note that I love Gilbert accessories, but would like > to see them be improved (ala what old AC would do with > them today). > > Here's another question. I love both operating > accessories and operating cars. What "AF" operating > cars would you like to see? My favorites (many of > which would be fairly easy to produce) are: > > 1. 919 Coal (Ore) Dump Car > 2. "Smitty" the Walking Brakeman boxcar > 3. 914 Log Dump Car > 4. Exploding boxcar (always loved this; new, improved > plastics could build one that lasts) > 5. Hopper car with operating bottom dump and coal > ramp (admittedly this is something new, but I can > dream, can't I?) > > Are you getting these down, Don? ;<) > > Joe > > > > ===== > Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9 > 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 > Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer > Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,100 part lines > American Models ########################## S-Helper Service > Official Licensed Dealer for Gilbert Reproductions > joestrainrepair@y... Master Charge/Visa > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. > http://auctions.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11313	From: scott griggs	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: Re: lionel lock's out employee's (WHAT IS YOUR SOURCE?)

What is your source? I live in Southeast Michigan and I can't find any mention of this in either Detroit newspaper or on the websites of any local TV station. The Associated Press site doesn't have any news of a lockout either. --- In S-Trains@egroups.com, "art king" <dak@c...> wrote: > they have locked out their employee's & told the press to get off the property ! on local new's this morning. > > art king > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11314	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: Re: Lionel and promised AF production

In a message dated 1/22/01 5:36:01 PM, djdewey@... writes: << With the latest news of the factory gates being locked this AM, what chance do you suppose there is for this year's production, including the promised AF stuff? >> Many of the new or reissued Lionel accesories are assembled in China. One suspects that they will ship the original Gilbert tooling to their contractors in China or Korea and voila, "Chungking Flyers!" RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11315	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: Re: "Repro" AF Accessories; Operating Cars

I agree with Scott. Instead of reproducing what once was made, perhaps producing what was missing ( like a streamline mail car) would be better. LTI's best contribution to passenger cars was not the repos, but the new stuff like dining cars. scott griggs wrote: > How about operating mail car mechanisms in more than just the New > Haven style baggage car? > > --- In S-Trains@egroups.com, Joseph Haenn <joestrainrepair@y...> > wrote: > > My list of old American Flyer accessories that I would > > like to see preproduced by Lyin'L, MTH, etc.: > > > > 1. Baggage Smasher (always wanted one; missed out > > on 2 at York 4 years ago) > > 2. 761/23761 Semaphore (or new improved semaphore > > by SHS) > > 3. Cow-on-the-Track (with a realistically-sized cow) > > 4. Automated piggy back car unloader/loader (built > > around the Gilbert accessory) > > 5. Gabe the Lamplighter (but improved by requiring > > Gabe to go back up the ladder to turn the light off > > with an automatic return down the ladder) > > > > Note that I love Gilbert accessories, but would like > > to see them be improved (ala what old AC would do with > > them today). > > > > Here's another question. I love both operating > > accessories and operating cars. What "AF" operating > > cars would you like to see? My favorites (many of > > which would be fairly easy to produce) are: > > > > 1. 919 Coal (Ore) Dump Car > > 2. "Smitty" the Walking Brakeman boxcar > > 3. 914 Log Dump Car > > 4. Exploding boxcar (always loved this; new, improved > > plastics could build one that lasts) > > 5. Hopper car with operating bottom dump and coal > > ramp (admittedly this is something new, but I can > > dream, can't I?) > > > > Are you getting these down, Don? ;<) > > > > Joe > > > > > > > > ===== > > Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9 > > 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 > > Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer > > Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,100 part lines > > American Models ########################## S-Helper Service > > Official Licensed Dealer for Gilbert Reproductions > > joestrainrepair@y... Master Charge/Visa > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. > > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11316	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: Re: "Repro" AF Accessories, Operating Cars

In a message dated 1/22/01 2:34:21 PM, comic@... writes: << I would love to have an original Gabe the Lamplighter,..because Gilbert made it, it's old, it's original. If I had the big bucks, I would have bid on one by now on ebay! But, I'll have to make do with a re-production. I just don't think that a serious AF collector would settle for a cheaper re-production. >> Agreed. I do have an original Gabe in super condition (LN/OB) and I do not resent the reissue of this or any other Gilbert item. The originals' prices have gotten pretty rough and I am glad that new versions may be made available for the guy or gal with limited funds who desires to build a layout and have fun running Flyer. The reissues expand the hobby and, after the initial decrease, often fuel interest in the originals, which in turn leads to increasing values again. In any case, toy trains are to be enjoyed, not treated as an "investment". In the meantime, I have the satisfaction of owning the New Haven version(s). MTH's new 785 is very nice, but it does have detail differences from the original and a can motor. The Lionel reissues have always been sufficiently different from the originals (sometimes shockingly so!) so that the dyed-in-the-wool Gilbertphile is only satisfied with an original. ....and, if reissues offend, then collect items that are not likely to be reissued (e.g., S.I.T. steam engines). RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11317	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: Re: "Repro" AF Accessories, Operating Cars

Now for my 2 cents. Anything that gets reproduced is good for S, at least AF and Hirail guys. People who can't afford a grand for a Gabe might be able to pony up $150 for a repro fom Mike. Why spoil their fun? If it brings down the price of collectable stuff I don't really care. I more or less phased out of collecting over the last 10 years as prices went nuts- I run mostly newer (and superior) hirail stuff now. Flyer sits mostly on my display shelves. jarcho@... wrote: > > I would like to see absolutely NO AF accessories and operating cars > reproduced. Zero, zip, zilch,nada, nothing. > > First, the originals didn't work all that well, and it should be possible > to produce items that do a lot more, a lot more reliably. Second, every > time an item is reproduced, it lowers the value of most originals. It's > just like someone reaching into my pocket, taking out some dollars, and > putting them in his pocket. I never have and never will purchase any item > made by any company that has reproduced an item that I own the original of. > > Joe, here are just a few problems with the items you mention: > The baggage smasher buzzes really loudly. > The semaphore is about correctly sized for standard gauge. > The cow on track has a plastic gear train that doesn't hold up to heavy use. > The piggyback unloader never worked for most of us because it's hard to > spot a flyer freight car accurately enough with 3 pole motors and reverse > units. > The 919 coal dump car breaks at the hinges. > The 914 log dump throws logs three feet. > and on and on... > > Why just perpetuate the mistakes of the past? > > What I would like to see is a nationwide design contest for one accessory > and one action car, to be manufactured in both S and O gauges. > > I would like to see a coal loader with a coal screw design that could load > a bunch of cars in a short time. Clamshell bucket loaders take more than 5 > minutes to load one car. I'd also like it to look like a coal facility, > not a Christmas tree. That's just one of many possibilities. > > Tom Jarcho > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11318	From: belairchevy@webtv.net	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: A Story From The Lionel Factory

I work with a guy who grew up in Michigan and worked at the Lionel factory. He said it was a good place to work and was surprised to learn of the problems they are having. He also related a little story about a bin at the factory where the "junk" ended up. It was full of trains that had defects, or seconds that could not be sold. These trains were headed for recycle so on occassion he would salvage an engine or two and built a nice collection from the junk bin. When I asked to see his collection he said "Well, I'm not really into model trains, so when we moved to Denver I gave them all away". I just shook my head and walked off. Brad

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11319	From: Robert Wight	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: SMOKE

Folks; I was getting cabin fever today, and was surfing the web, and came upon a guy that is into larger scale trains. On his web sight in his tips section he had a very technical article on smoke units and how they work. All so he had a section on different smoke fluids and experiments on them. To sum it up he had a couple things that could be interesting to some of us. One was he said that the Dept. 56 smoke fluid seems to work very well and is lower cost then the others except lamp oil. He said that the lamp oil works very well, seems to be the right viscosity ect. he said that the way the smoke unit works, that the parrafin base of the lamp oil should not build up within the smoke unit. That was one concern that some of us had about the lamp oil. So far in three years of use in my loco's it seems to hold true that it has not clogged my wick. Happy Railroading --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11320	From: JRobbie99@aol.com	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: Re: "Repro" AF Accessories; Operating Cars

Nice list Joe. I would like to see some things re-issued as well. My problem is that "TODAYS" quality of American Flyer from Lionel is terrible. I do not like can motors, they are cheap and unservicable, even though they may run a little smoother. I also don't like the lighter cheaper plastics, they do break too easily. I hate the new style KC trucks too. Gilbert made items have a nice solid feel to them, and so did origial post war Lionels. Gilbert made action cars and accessories were the best in the world. Perfect operation almost every time, and smooth and quiet. Unlike Lionels with their annoying BUUZZZZZZZZ and other racket along with poor operation like the pathetic 397 coal tower. Thats why more Lionel guys go after the AF accessories than the Lionel ones. This has also helped bump up the prices of AF accessories a lot. To say that original AF equipment was inferior is laughable IMHO. It was Lionel whos product was far inferior in comparison. I also did repairs for 25 years as well. 98% of the items that came in were Lionels. Always broken and/or inoperable. I sent more of them home unfinished/unrepaired because of the unavailability of major parts that were broken or missing. The typical American Flyer repair was bad E-unit fingers and broken couplers, just simple stuff. Any train or toy will break if abused. But under normal wear and tear, AF always held up much better. I've seen far more Lionel 3459 Ore cars with the bin sides missing or destroyed than I ever did Gilbert 719 or 919 AF Ore cars. If the feel and quality of the orignals could be replicated, many of the items you listed, as well as the mail car etc., would be nice, especially in different road names. Unfortunately, I don't think much will come of the idea unless MTH does do it as Lionel has been slacking in the AF-S arena for some time.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11321	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: Auto Carriers

Thanks for all the kind words about the Chrome pictures. I bought the cars from e-toys anlong with some other bargins. Some slot car supplies. I did see some in ToysRusm, but they were 'special' edition very pricy. Auto Carrier... I own two of them, I can't remember where I got them , but most of my stuff comes from K-mart , Target and Toys-R-Us. No fancy toy connections. One is labeled 'realtoy' and the other is 'majorette'. I posted a picture of the two carriers. I put a copy at the egroups file section and a copy at the S-Trains Yahoo club file section. Last night was a blast, you folks that have not tried it should give it a try, it is DIFFERENT. Paul Yorke http://www.S-Trains.com Model Trains / 3D Photography / Computer Support ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://home.netscape.com/webmail

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11322	From: The Reis's	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: [S-Trains] American Chrome

Albert! In the sunny northwest (50 degrees and almost no rain since early december..Ok I didn't count yesterday). Target and Toys R Us and even Wal-Mart are full of them for $2.99 each. I have heard they are a bit small but they don't look that small and do fit in pretty well with the other cars. eric kenmore, wa. -----Original Message----- From: Al Paolozzi [mailto:amflyral@...] Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2001 9:51 PM To: s-scale@egroups.com; s-trains@egroups.com; Paul Yorke Subject: [S-Scale] Re: [S-Trains] American Chrome Someone mentioned that the American Chrome cars were available at Target stores. I assume that they sell individually. How much are they each? They sure are good looking vehicles. Paul where did you find the vehicle transport truck? Thanks amflyral@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Yorke" <yorke@...> To: <s-scale@egroups.com>; <s-trains@egroups.com> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2001 12:51 PM Subject: [S-Trains] American Chrome > http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/chrome/chrome.htm l > The American Chrome collection cars have arrived! > See ya tonight! > -- > Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. > American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers > http://S-Trains.com (alt e-mail PaulYorke@...) > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > The topic is S Scale please keep your messages 'on-topic'. To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11323	From: The Reis's	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Auto Carriers

I have found the "Majorette" brand car carriers (made in France) around here a lot in Fred Meyer stores (now owned by Kroger) and sometimes K-mart. They put out the car carrier with various cabs for about $7.50. Mostly metal with some plastic in the cabs. They also sell them in a package with 6 cheap cars for $9.99. Great pictures also. And Paul its good you are getting some use from the S-Heralds as seen on you website. eric reis kenmore, wa. -----Original Message----- From: Paul Yorke [mailto:paulyorke@...] Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 6:41 PM To: s-scale@egroups.com Cc: s-trains@egroups.com Subject: [S-Scale] Auto Carriers Thanks for all the kind words about the Chrome pictures. I bought the cars from e-toys anlong with some other bargins. Some slot car supplies. I did see some in ToysRusm, but they were 'special' edition very pricy. Auto Carrier... I own two of them, I can't remember where I got them , but most of my stuff comes from K-mart , Target and Toys-R-Us. No fancy toy connections. One is labeled 'realtoy' and the other is 'majorette'. I posted a picture of the two carriers. I put a copy at the egroups file section and a copy at the S-Trains Yahoo club file section. Last night was a blast, you folks that have not tried it should give it a try, it is DIFFERENT. Paul Yorke http://www.S-Trains.com Model Trains / 3D Photography / Computer Support __________________________________________________ __________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://home.netscape.com/webmail The topic is S Scale please keep your messages 'on-topic'. To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11324	From: russcalla@aol.com	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 886

Chris, I know Rick had responded to you regarding the 313, but I would add a little more information. The 313 brings value to the table because Flyer had the 316 pulling a premier set of passenger cars in 1953 and 54. Sales, however, were not good with these passenger sets and the competitor had Magna-traction, so Flyer began to emphasize pull mor power. they did away with the whistle and again redesigned the engine shell to fit the larger super motor. If you look at a 316 you can see the fire box slants downward towards the engineer's cab, so no super motor can fit. Apparently, the die dropped some and the error occurred on the 316. Its forerunner the 312 mirrors the 313 not the 316. So you always need to be careful when a 316 is for sale with a super motor. The 313 became the final all die cast engine and tender, as susequently, the very rare 21115 followed with the two sequence reverse and plastic tender. Hope you find this additional info helpful. Best, Russ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11325	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: AF Reproductions

Sorry if I upset you Tom, but I have to agree with Chuck and Roger. In fact, repros are affecting originals very little, just making things more available to operators. Case in point: has the value dropped for the very rare Track Gang Accessory just because there are repros available? Not according to the prices of the few that I have seen at York and elsewhere. Although the selling price of 785/23785 Coal Loaders have leveled off at about $450, they often are priced much higher and sell for more than this. Collectors want an original in top quality so it can sit on a shelf or remain in a box; operators want quality at an affordable price so they can use it. Whatever floats your boat is fine for me--as long is there is enough product around to fit everyone's need. Secondly, you will notice that I made several suggestions for changes in the reproductions. I believe that many other changes are possible, and would strongly encourage them. We have new and better materials as well as electronics to develop a better product. As I said, I want these "new" repros to be as A.C. Gilbert would be making them today, not as he was be able to do it 50 years ago. This is not meant to attack anyone, just offer a different rationale for repros. And yes, I would like to see a streamliner mail pick-up car as well, just wasn't smart enough to think of it!! Joe ===== Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,100 part lines American Models ########################## S-Helper Service Official Licensed Dealer for Gilbert Reproductions joestrainrepair@... Master Charge/Visa __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11326	From: scott griggs	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: More on the Lionel Plant

The Lionel plant in Chesterfield Township (45 min north of Detroit) was closed this morning due to a bomb threat, not a termination of production there. http://www.detnow.com/news/0101221203.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11327	From: Victor Bereskin	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: Lionel's Problems

The following is from the website of WXYZ TV, Detroit. It explains the "lockout". Lionel Bomb Threat Investigated Reported by Gordon Loesch Web produced by Rachel L. Miller Police are investigating a bomb threat that forced the Lionel Train plant in Chesterfield Township to remain closed Monday morning. No one has been allowed in the factory since Sunday night's bomb threat. The plant is the only US plant for Lionel trains and they are possibly moving manufacturing overseas. Most employees believe the proposal is unacceptable. "I think they are trying to cover themselves in terms of buffaloing the public and media," Dan McCarthy, from UAW Local 417, said. "The fact of the matter, they have already decided to move to the Orient." "Certainly it's an emotional time," Richard Maddux, from Lionel Manufacturing, said. "I hope it does not become that hostile. We certainly need to continue to do production here throughout, as I mentioned, a good part of the year coming." If the company decides to move operations out of the country, it would take several months. Both sides are expected to meet on Monday and talk about ways of cutting costs and keeping the plant in Chesterfield Township.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11328	From: IronHorse	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: New username

Note of my change in username; If you see mail from IronHorse, it is in reality from Roger Hinds, which is me. I could have used Ferroeqineologist, but that would have been pushing it. :o) Roger [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11329	From: Robert Wight	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: Smoke Link

http://www.trainweb.org/girr/tips/tips3/smoke_tips.html I hope i did this okay. This is the smoke link. Bob Wight Go Platinum, Check it Out.... http://www.goingplatinum.com/member/bobwight Start Your Own Homebased Business For $10.00 www.replicate99.com/candy/1035.shtml --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11330	From: John Foley	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: Steamtown 2001 Registration forms

Hi Folks You can now go to our NASG Steamtown 2001 Convention website and print out the Registration, car order and the Trips and Tours forms. Thanks to Craig O'Connell for setting up and maintaining the site. You can add up the totals from each form you use and make out one check. http://trainweb.org/steamtown2001/registration.html Hope to see you there. John Foley

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11331	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 1/22/2001
Subject: New username

Actually, "microferroequinologist" is the proper term, coined by legendary NY train repairman John Willis some years ago. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11332	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 1/23/2001
Subject: Re: "Repro" AF Accessories, Operating Cars

Let me pose a question to the group. When is a "repro" not a "repro"? If I made a Gabe, that would be a reproduction. If Lionel who owns the rights to the American Flyer Line makes a Gabe, isn't that just another run of an American Flyer Gabe? Don -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New standard flat cars with loads are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/fcwithloads_in_stock.html http://www.showcaseline.com/fc_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11333	From: Rick {bAss-flyer} Evans	Date: 1/23/2001
Subject: Re: More on the Lionel Plant

"scott griggs" wrote: **(((The Lionel plant in Chesterfield Township (45 min north of Detroit) was closed this morning due to a bomb threat, not a termination of production there.)))** Ok,...Which one of us "S"'ers lives the closest to Detroit???? Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11334	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 1/23/2001
Subject: SMOKE FLUID

A local store has a sale on Magic Smoke for use with Department 56 smoking Chimneys. the contents are propylene glycol. 6 oz for $2.50. I put it my 290 and it smokes well but lacks an AF scent. It says Pine Scent but not much odor. Does anyone have long term experience with this product? We have a show this weekend and will be running trains on our modular layout. I could recommend this product if it is safe. The NASG is working on the next AF car project with "L". We don't know where the Gilbert equipment is going. I recommend diversifying and buying new S Gauge products. My "pre-L" runs fine and looks good too. Staying on the NPSG branchline, http://members.nbci.com/northpenn_s/main.html of NASG track, http://www.nasg.org , Glenn david_horn@... wrote Subject: smoke fluid LVTS made great product. Especially the "S-Gauge" in AF trains. ........ I've tried Super Smoke (too thick), MTH ProtoSmoke, and lamp oil. ...... Curious about RFGiardinia's "original" formula American Flyer smoke fluid. There's nothing of course like the real thing, so RFG's will likely be what I try next some day. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11335	From: Doug	Date: 1/23/2001
Subject: Re: smoke fluid

Here's a good link on smoke fluids. It's a laarge scale site, but smoke is smoke!! http://www.trainweb.org/girr/tips/tips3/smoke_tips.html ----- Original Message ----- From: <david_horn@...> To: <S-Trains@egroups.com>; <toytrains@onelist.com> Sent: Monday, January 22, 2001 2:45 PM Subject: [S-Trains] smoke fluid > LVTS made great product. Especially the "S-Gauge" in AF trains. I once > talked to the owner on the phone (nice guy, collects civil war cannons) to > find out why his product was so hard to find. He told me about two dealers > in my area to check with. They used to have it, but no longer. I've tried > Super Smoke (too thick), MTH ProtoSmoke, and lamp oil. I lace the lamp oil > with cedar oil concentrate which I found in the aromatherapy section of a > nature foods/nutrition store (small bottle in a box). It smokes like mad, > but does have some "after-odor". I like to use it at shows, especially > outdoors. If no other option, ProtoSmoke isn't bad (used to be made by > LVTS), assuming it's still available? ProtoSmoke is just a little wimpy - - > more whispy than thick puffs of smoke. Curious about RFGiardinia's > "original" formula American Flyer smoke fluid. There's nothing of course > like the real thing, so RFG's will likely be what I try next some day. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11336	From: Robert Wight	Date: 1/23/2001
Subject: lionel

Do to the recent talk about Lionel it induced me to do a little research. I went to there web sight and from there went to the sight of the investment company that owns them. On both sights they boast about how they have turned Lionel into a high profit company. After reading all they had it seems to me that they know how to scam people into thinking the wat they want. It seemed to me that the union has nothing what ever to do about the closer. It is just good old greed. They want more and more profits. One fast easy way to get this is to go for slave labor. The unions is a smoke screen. Thats what I got from what they post on there sights. Happy Railroading Bob Wight --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11337	From: John Foley	Date: 1/23/2001
Subject: Steamtown Forms

Hi Folks Sorry I put the wrong address for the Steamtown website. it should have been http://trainweb.org/steamtown2001/ Click on Trips & Tours for the newest information. John Foley [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11338	From: Bob Sylsbury	Date: 1/23/2001
Subject: Dover,NJ. show....

I was just wondering if anyone from our group is going to the train show on February 4,2001 at the Dover N.J. H.S. ? Please let me know or post it.Thanks.....Bob

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11339	From: Peck	Date: 1/23/2001
Subject: Re: FLyonel '01

The new L catalog is out (though I don't know how all this overseas talk will affect it). AF includes: GN boxcar Burlington gondola Bordens flatcar UP hopper Gabe Sawmill Coal-loader Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11340	From: scott griggs	Date: 1/23/2001
Subject: Re: "Repro" AF Accessories, Operating Cars

Good question--When does it cease to be just "making more" and instead becomes making reproductions? There may be two characteristics that cause new production to be "reproduction": 1) Some considerable time (decades) has passed since the "originals" were made. 2) There is some scarcity or value associated with an item that has outpaced inflation (for example, if Lionel started building AF Atlantics tomorrow, would they be reproductions? Gilbert Atlantics are worth less today in inflation-adjusted dollars than their price when new). --- In S-Trains@egroups.com, Robin Thompson <robin@s...> wrote: > Let me pose a question to the group. When is a "repro" not a "repro"? If I > made a Gabe, that would be a reproduction. If Lionel who owns the rights to the > American Flyer Line makes a Gabe, isn't that just another run of an American > Flyer Gabe? > Don > > -- Don Thompson > S Helper Service Inc. > http://www.showcaseline.com > 1.800.465.0303 > New standard flat cars with loads are now shipping! > http://www.showcaseline.com/fcwithloads_in_stock.html > http://www.showcaseline.com/fc_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11341	From: SMITTY@tir.com	Date: 1/23/2001
Subject: "excellent condition, but........."

A while back there was a post that spoofed the rarity and condition of an item on eBay.......check this one out, it's almost as good: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=544201130 Regard"s", Smitty

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11342	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 1/23/2001
Subject: Re: Container arrives (blatant SHS commercialism)

We unloaded the next run of GSC 53'6" standard flatcars (C&NW, Conrail Quality, Grand Trunk Western, Reading and UP (scheme IV) yesterday. Included in the shipment is a restocking of #00257 15" straight track, #00001 code 110 70 ton friction bearing trucks and the 2001 catalogs. Also included were extra #00533 switch controllers (with a 40" extension (black/white connector) that goes from the controller to the switch, a 40" extension (white/white) that goes from the white end of the extension to the switch and white male/male connector that would fit in between.) These can be used for missing AF switch controllers. The price is $9.95 and these can be ordered now. I will let you know when our webmaster Jon Marinello add these to our misc. parts page. Don -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New standard flat cars with loads are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/fcwithloads_in_stock.html http://www.showcaseline.com/fc_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11343	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 1/23/2001
Subject: Re: FLyonel '01

In a message dated 1/23/01 6:38:03 PM, portlines@... writes: << AF includes: GN boxcar Burlington gondola Borden's flatcar UP hopper Gabe Sawmill Coal-loader >> To add a bit more, the coal loader is a reissue of the Seaboard. A selling point that LIONEL will emphasize is that all three accessories are to be made using original Gilbert tooling. Pricing on the Gabe will undercut MTH's and they will try to beat MTH's version to market. It would not be surprising if the accessories are made overseas, as are most Lionel accessories these days -- we'll see. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11344	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 1/23/2001
Subject: Re: "Repro" AF Accessories, Operating Cars

In a message dated 1/23/01 7:19:08 PM, sgriggs@... writes: << Good question--When does it cease to be just "making more" and instead becomes making reproductions? >> When the piece is made using (mostly) original tooling, decorated with colors close to the original, and issued with the same catalog number under the same brand name, this constitutes a "reissue" rather than a "reproduction". RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11345	From: joe messinger	Date: 1/23/2001
Subject: Smoke

I wrote in asking Robert Wight if he would give us an e-mail address for the web site he mentioned regarding smoke fluid. That was two days ago and I haven't seen my post come up as yet. In the mean time Robert did post the web site as well as Doug Peck. I,just now, got a notice that my e-mail has been delayed, but would be delivered. I've never had that happen before? At any rate, if my original post does come up, please disregard it. If this one is delayed, I give up. . . Thanks, Joe Messinger _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11346	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 1/23/2001
Subject: Dover, NJ Show

Bob, I am planning to go to that show, although my plans may change. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11347	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 1/23/2001
Subject: Re: FLyonel '01

Kind of ironic that with so little Flyer being produced that MTH and Lionel will produce versions of the same accessory! Peck wrote: > The new L catalog is out (though I don't know how all this overseas talk > will affect it). > AF includes: > GN boxcar > Burlington gondola > Bordens flatcar > UP hopper > Gabe > Sawmill > Coal-loader > > Doug Peck > Port Lines Hobby Supplies > 6 Storeybrooke Drive > Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 > Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST > 978-465-8798 > 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). > http://www.portlines.com > portlines@... > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11348	From: Robert Wight	Date: 1/23/2001
Subject: Re: Smoke formula

There was a post on smoke formula. It was cedar oil, camphor and mineral oil. His Dad did not recall how he mixed it. I did some research on this. it seems this might be a great formula. Apparently the Camphor is used to thin the mineral oil. Also acts like a oxidizer and also at the same time to take on the scent of the cedar oil. Camphor oil is very costly. About 6 bucks for 1/2 oz.. but I was looking at Spirit of Camphor which is the oil diluted with alcohol base. It cost a lot less. I was thinking that it would not take to much experimentation to make a formula. I would think a few drops of cedar oil, then the mineral oil as the main ingredient, and then start adding spirit of Camphor untill you reach the proper viscosity. Happy Railroading --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11349	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 1/23/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 868

Front coupler: I presently have two #290 running as double headers. A small flat bar 1/4" x 1/16" fastened solid to the front stud ( you may have to replace the stud with a bolt and double nut the bar on the bottom of the plate pilot ) holding the front pilot truck, the bar bent down just below or touching the cow catcher ( to clear of switches and re railer)and bent up vertical in front of the cow catcher to provide a bar for the rear coupler of the front engine to grip, it works excellent. Any questions? write Jerry 77-11644 ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11350	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 1/23/2001
Subject: Re: Smoke formula

Robert, That was my post. The Camphor also added some of its own odor to the scent. We really liked it. At one time, I had a bottle with an eyedropper top that still had some in it. The top had severely deteriorated and I either replaced it with a new dropper top or put it in a new bottle. This was about 15 years ago. I guess I'll have to start digging in old boxes to see if I can find it and pray there is still some left to try out. Roger Petrella Franktown, CO Roger Petrella Franktown, CO Robert Wight wrote: > There was a post on smoke formula. It was cedar oil, camphor and mineral oil. His Dad did not recall how he mixed it. I did some research on this. it seems this might be a great formula. Apparently the Camphor is used to thin the mineral oil. Also acts like a oxidizer and also at the same time to take on the scent of the cedar oil. Camphor oil is very costly. About 6 bucks for 1/2 oz.. but I was looking at Spirit of Camphor which is the oil diluted with alcohol base. It cost a lot less. I was thinking that it would not take to much experimentation to make a formula. I would think a few drops of cedar oil, then the mineral oil as the main ingredient, and then start adding spirit of Camphor untill you reach the proper viscosity. > > Happy Railroading > > --------------------------------- > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11351	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 1/23/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 868

Jerry, How do you get both engines to run at the same speed? Any time I've tried to run two locos on the same track, one always goes faster than the other. This is one reason I may be converting to DCC. Roger Petrella Franktown, CO Gerald R Dobbs wrote: > Front coupler: > I presently have two #290 running as double headers. A small flat bar > 1/4" x 1/16" fastened solid to the front stud ( you may have to > replace the stud with a bolt and double nut the bar on the bottom of the > plate pilot ) holding the front pilot truck, the bar bent down just below > or touching the cow catcher ( to clear of switches and re railer)and bent > up vertical in front of the cow catcher to provide a bar for the rear > coupler of the front engine to grip, it works excellent. > > Any questions? write > > Jerry 77-11644 > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11352	From: busyboy	Date: 1/23/2001
Subject: Re: "Repro" AF Accessories, Operating Cars

Don asked: >When is a "repro" not a "repro"? If I >made a Gabe, that would be a reproduction. If Lionel who owns the rights to the >American Flyer Line makes a Gabe, isn't that just another run of an American >Flyer Gabe? We discussed this topic awhile back and I do believe that this is exactly the conclusion that was reached. It's a reproduction when someone other than the original manufacturer makes it. When the original company builds it, it's a re-issue. However . . . there's that word again . . . it's an exercise in technical legal semantics to consider that the present A.C. Gilbert division/department of Lionel is the same original manufacturer that did the first run of these products. If you, Don, purchased the name from Lionel, then your reproductions would technically become re-issues, but not really. Look at your current situation. You're out of stock on some wide-vision caboose roadnames. To meet demand, you decide to run another 100 of a popular name. Doing so requires no additional engineering. No drawings need be made. You do not set out to copy the first run as accurately as possible. You just make a phone call to your production supervisor and order up another 100 of item X. It's just more of an ongoing, existing stock. If, however, 30 years from now, the guys who bought SHS from you (at an astounding record price) decide to offer a "re-issue of those popular cabooses we made back in the end of the last Century", they most likely will be making a reproduction. The molds might be there, but new paint masks will be made, new numbers chosen. (Maybe the new management won't be so fussy and I can have one in UP livery, now that I'm 83, hmmph!) Paint formulations from 2030 will be used as well as contemporary plastics formulas. The now proven new type of truck and coupler developed in 2015 will be installed in place of the one we know here in the past. And of course, this car will be offered with smoke and brake sounds and a new digital lighting system. It won't be a re-issue. It will be a reproduction. The term re-issue implies contemporaneousness. It includes faithful exactitude in rendition. You issued it once. Now just issue it again. Make some more. A reproduction carries latitude for improvements, good or bad. You produced it once. Now let's go through the process of producing it again, only this time, we don't have to completely re-invent the wheel. A movie studio makes "The Postman Always Rings Twice". Good movie. Only, after two months, it turns out there aren't enough prints for all the mid-west theaters. So, they print a few more. That's a re-issue. Years later, the same studio (hardly the same management or even people), decides to make "The Postman Always Rings Twice" again. They don't print more copies off the original negative. That would be another re-issue. They hire new people and re-work the script and then they produce it again. The re-produce it. Maybe it's better than the original. But it is a reproduction and a production in its own right. Clear on the hanger, Chris Zizzo By the way, thanks Don and Robin for your concern. We're all fine here and I've been busy as hell in the moom pitchas! CZ and Denise and the Katz

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11353	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 1/23/2001
Subject: REPO ETC

How about when Lionel makes a "new" item it is a "Reintroduced" item Much like the newly Reintroduced Thunderbird by Ford It has some of the same styling ,can look somewhat like the older model but hopefuly performs better. These new "Birds" cost more that the older ones at time of issue but they do nothing to bring down the value of a 56 Bird The same as repo parts for model T's That you can build from scratch and never reach the value of an original, Mike S

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11354	From: busyboy	Date: 1/23/2001
Subject: Repros

Tom Jarcho said: >every time an item is reproduced, it lowers the value of most originals. It's >just like someone reaching into my pocket, taking out some dollars, and >putting them in his pocket. Here's how I feel about that, Tom. If your item is mint, it is a highly prized collectible. If your item is rare, it is a greatly sought piece, almost regardless of condition. If the item is reproduced, collector's, the ones with the big bucks to pay for a prize like yours will still shell out top dollar for the real McCoy. That one like it is now being made does not mean that the new one can replace the original in a serious collection. If a repro is made, guys like me get to have one to play with. We were NEVER going to part with the money it would take to buy yours. We might, if we preferred owning the original, be willing to buy a less than perfect copy and refinish it. We can afford it now that the reproduction has flooded the operators market. You cannot take away from the collector's market with a repro, because it is not a re-issue. People started to hoard Cabbage Patch dolls because they were in short supply. After Christmas, the manufacturer made more. They were indistinguishable from the originals, right down to the UPC code. The inflated value of the collected dolls sank like a stone. Re-issues will kill collectibility. That's the whole idea behind limited editions. Reproductions of the merchandise of a long gone company are not originals. They are different in some small, but significant way. People who are collectors will be unfazed by a repro. Their collection won't be complete until they get one of each original. cordially, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11355	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 1/23/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 877

Survey for A.F.Gilbert electrical parts. 1. yes 2. yes 3. yes yes a. web b. book c. both Jerry 77-11644 ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11356	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 1/23/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 875

A quick and easy way to tighten a lose wheel to the axle. Using a small brass shim .001" or thicker as required, around the axle, shim should extend out beyond the axle and pinched (and twist ) together to form a point to guide the wheel on the axle, quarter the wheel and press the wheel on the axle. Shim stock assortments are available at auto supply stores and/or hardware stores. Jerry 77-11644 ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11357	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 1/23/2001
Subject: Repros

Chris, note that I did not refer to "collectible value", but merely "value". I agree with you up to a point. Some pure collectors will always want a mint boxed original, and such items' value will not be affected quite as much by reproductions as operator quality pieces. But there aren't that many pure Flyer collectors -- most hobbyists fall somewhere between collector and operator. I remember that when the LTI MP passenger set came out, there was a gorgeous near mint or mint original set on the shelf at my local train store. It stayed there for YEARS -- no one would buy it when they could get a repro for much less. Several beautiful NH electrics were there for years too for the same reason. I, however, have almost no trains in mint boxed condition and don't plan to acquire any. My trains are (obviously) operated. They are lovingly maintained and repaired, a few are even partly restored, but they are operator pieces that look and run great. The resale value of THIS grade of Flyer train, as far as those pieces that have been "reproduced", such as the Northern Pacific passenger set and the New Haven electric, has been drastically reduced. I calculate that the resale value of my trains has been lowered at least $500, and probably more, by the LTI reproductions. If those MTH and LTI accessories ever make it to the market, they will reduce the value of my railroad even further. Now, why should I support manufacturers that have lowered the value of my railroad? I'm not gonna do it. No way! If you feel that they have given you the chance to own and run stuff that you couldn't otherwise have obtained, well that's great. Support them. Just be sure to cop plenty of replacement circuit boards and can motors. As I pointed out a year or two ago when we were discussing the TCA, there is a tension or conflict between the long time train owners who have a lot of trains, and the more recent converts, who want to acquire a lot. This mirrors a similar conflict that has erupted at times in American (and European) history. Fortunately, none of us are about to go to war about it though. I hope not, anyway. I guess I was a musician for too long. A player who just copied others was not respected. One who came up with a new sound or idea or style was considered to have made a contribution. Don Thompson is making a contribution, or darn near killing himself trying to! Delightful NEW stuff. LTI is just trying to rip us off with the same old tunes. Dig? Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11358	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 1/23/2001
Subject: loose steam loco wheels

I would just like to point out that by my count, Jerry Dobbs' method makes SEVEN different methods of reattching a loose drive wheel. They all probably work, too! Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11359	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Re: REPO ETC

Hmm, Well since you brought up T parts, most of the repro T parts are JUNK! I try to use originals, and some very carefully chosen replacements on my car. How about the Studebaker Avanti? Studebaker folded, but a dealer bought all the tooling, and continued to make them. The endeavor lasted through about three owners, though I believe they are now no longer made. Were they repros, or re-issues?? Hmm. Grey area! I do hope that some things are improved on the repros/reissues. I know the Barrel loader isn't--the drive belt takes a set when stored, and the can motor is unrepairable. OTOH, a Gabe that turns on the lights automatically when he reaches the top, and doesn't require the operator to push the button repeatedly to get him there would be nice (although the kids probably like pushing the button to make Gabe "climb"--so maybe I'm all wet there). S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11360	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Re: Repros

Hmm, Interesting insight, Tom. However (gee, don't you just love that--"Hey! You're right, HOWEVER. . . ." ), I go to listen to modern bands recreating Miller, Dorsey, etc. performances because I love that sound, and recordings of the "real thang" are great, but not the same as LIVE. Does that diminish the originals? I don't think so, and I see some "young people" diggin' that sound now too. This increases the appreciation and keeps that music alive. I look upon the reproductions in the same way. Yep, they may be devaluing my stuff, but I don't care--I'm only going to sell it when my faculties are failing, and at that point I probably won't know what's going on anyway! And, I suspect from reading your writing that you'll never willingly let go of your trains either! So maybe the loss is only perceived? I'm just adding to the discussion! ;-) S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11361	From: mvandiver2@aol.com	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: (no subject)

I have noticed serveral messages lately where individuals talked about running two tranis on one track. I know very little about electricity, so if you are kind enough to reply to this, please do so with very elementary language. Also, I would like to know if there is a way, with AF, to do what I saw with a G Gague display at the Mall over Christmas....to have a train come to a certain point on the track, slow down, stop, and then take off again at an moderately increasing rate of speed. Remember, you are dealing with someone who needs elementary instructions. Thanks. Mike Vandiver [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11362	From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Heading to the Timonium, MD Show

Howdy Friends We will be attending the Scale Train Show this weekend in Timonium, MD. If you are in the area, please stop by and chat! Several new kits will be on display there. I will be out of the office, away from the phone and email, until Tuesday Jan 30. FYI... a box containing M&PA #41 kits in S Scale is somewhere over the Pacific Ocean; it will be here when I get back and we will ship the orders ASAP. Thanks, and take care, Bill -- =============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11363	From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Re: Heading to the Timonium, MD Show

There is a link to Zane's show page with maps, etc. off our site... http://www.btsrr.com/btssho01.htm Take care, Bill Gary Mitchelson wrote: > > What day and time? At the fair grounds? > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade [mailto:wadepub@...] > > Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2001 8:08 AM > > To: 10- On3 List; 8 - MaPaRailroad@egroups.com; 9 - S-Scale; 9 - > > S-Trains > > Subject: [S-Trains] Heading to the Timonium, MD Show > > > > > > Howdy Friends > > > > We will be attending the Scale Train Show this weekend in Timonium, MD. > > If you are in the area, please stop by and chat! Several new kits will > > be on display there. > > > > I will be out of the office, away from the phone and email, until > > Tuesday Jan 30. > > > > FYI... a box containing M&PA #41 kits in S Scale is somewhere over the > > Pacific Ocean; it will be here when I get back and we will ship the > > orders ASAP. > > > > Thanks, and take care, > > Bill > > -- > > =============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ > > Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer > > Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 > > B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com > > S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com > > Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > -- =============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11364	From: ALLAN V EISENHAUR	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Smoke

Hi All In S Gagian Jan/Feb 00 ( I think ) , Bob Tufts's " Did you know " part of his American Flyer Collector's Column was the formula for American Flyer Smoke Fuild . 1 Part Cedarwood Oil ( Oil from the wood of Juniperus Virginiana ) and 16 parts Shell Dispersol ( Kerosene Code 8233 ). His email is pufftoots@... . I went on the internet and found this site and they sell Cedar Wood Oil. 8 oz can = $15 , 32 oz can = $35 , Shipping Included Giles & Kendall 3470 Maysville Road Huntsville AL 35811 Attn Todd Moss Product Manager AL ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11365	From: Robert Wight	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Lionel (AF)

Folks; I looked to see if I can see photo's and prices on the new AF issued from Lionel. Did'nt have any luck. So i wrote Lionel to see if they would send me a catalog if they do that sort of thing. they just wrote back and said they do not sell any AF stuff. That's all they said. Can someone explain to me please what is what? Thanks/ Happy Railroading Bob Wight --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11366	From: Roy Inman	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: More repros...

Tom, I can understand your point of view, but the reason Lionel, et al is producing repos is not that the are necessairily trying to rip us off, but because there is a market-we (well, some of us) are asking for an affordable lookalike. BTW, there was a photographer in NY a few years back who openly admitted he was not creative, not innovative, but he could copy. Which he did, reproducing with near-perfect precision, works of Adams, Avedon, etc., and even got permission to so. ( I know, amazed even me). His stuff sold like hot cakes at half the master's work: An Adams might sell for $10,000, his sold for $5,000. Point being people wanted something that "looked like" and were willing to pay for it, plus an obvious repro has a sort of "campy" appeal. Roy Inman trying to rip us off with the same old tunes [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11367	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Repros etc.

In a message dated 01/24/2001 2:23:11 AM Mountain Standard Time, S-Trains@egroups.com writes: > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=544201130 > > Let's hear it from all of you that would buy a reproduction, reintroduction, reissue, copy, or clone of a 1940 Ford coupe. It would have all the modern day technology of course.... How about you David? It wouldn't effect the value of an original by 1c......I'm buying a re-______ (fill in the blanks) Gabe. Never found an original one I wanted to pay $1,000+ for. Keep it coming, I love it.....Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11368	From: wayne broadhead	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Re: Repros etc.

Hi Steve and all, I am just pleased as can be that MTH and L is going to remake the accessories. I have been happy with my reissued PA sets by Lionel for many years. Of course I wish I could have a mint in box Gabe, or NP PA set.....but the facts are that few of us make 6 figure incomes. I personally wonder if the remakes affect prices that much. When ever I come across a LN NP, or MPoc set..they are always expensive...to much for me. I haven't seen the prices come down on these originals. The only thing that has surprised me is that I can still buy a Lionel Flyer MOPac set for the same price that I bought mine for years ago. Same for the UP set.....saw a NP set in the TCA quarterly for only 50 dollars more than i paid for mine several years ago. I would have thought that these beautiful sets would have gone up in value alot more by now. Wayne boss31@... wrote: > > In a message dated 01/24/2001 2:23:11 AM Mountain Standard Time, > S-Trains@egroups.com writes: > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=544201130 > > > > > Let's hear it from all of you that would buy a reproduction, reintroduction, > reissue, copy, or clone of a 1940 Ford coupe. It would have all the modern > day technology of course.... How about you David? It wouldn't effect the > value of an original by 1c......I'm buying a re-______ (fill in the blanks) > Gabe. Never found an original one I wanted to pay $1,000+ for. > Keep it coming, I love it.....Steve > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11369	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Re: Repros etc.

OW! Somebody stole that one! Wish I could afford it, I wouldn't be ordering repros, re-issues or whatever. And yes, if I had the funds, I'd have the 40 coupe too! Roger Petrella Franktown, CO boss31@... wrote: > In a message dated 01/24/2001 2:23:11 AM Mountain Standard Time, > S-Trains@egroups.com writes: > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=544201130 > > > > > Let's hear it from all of you that would buy a reproduction, reintroduction, > reissue, copy, or clone of a 1940 Ford coupe. It would have all the modern > day technology of course.... How about you David? It wouldn't effect the > value of an original by 1c......I'm buying a re-______ (fill in the blanks) > Gabe. Never found an original one I wanted to pay $1,000+ for. > Keep it coming, I love it.....Steve > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11370	From: John Foley	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Convention change

Hi Folks We have a slight change with the convention. The Strasburg Train special will be leaving the hotel at 7:30 am instead of *am and the train ride starts at 11am instead of 11:30 am. If they change it again +)_^&$#$#@%&*($$#$ John Foley

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11371	From: tom.druga@saraleedirect.com	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: New Catalog

For those interested, the new lionel catalog is posted on the lots website. www.lots-trains.org

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11372	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: New LTI catalog pix

Very interesting! The war of the Gabes! That makes three different repros, right? Triple S, MTH, and LTI? To heck with collecting trains, just collect Gabes! But how are LTI gonna fit one of their can motors into that little shack??? With a can opener? Haha. Actually, does this mean that LTI is going to make some old style AF reverse units? There's a repro part we could really use. Just have to change the drum. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11373	From: Scott Holm	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Re: Lionel (AF)

Leave it to Lionel to have a clueless person answering e-mail requests. Along with a stroke of marketing genius to make the catalog virtually inaccessable (requiring a shockwave plug-in to view it.) I'd suggest keeping your request simple and just ask for the catalog. Don't mention Flyer at all. --- Robert Wight <bobgaylord@...> wrote: > > Folks; I looked to see if I can see photo's and prices on the new AF > issued from Lionel. Did'nt have any luck. So i wrote Lionel to see if > they would send me a catalog if they do that sort of thing. they just > wrote back and said they do not sell any AF stuff. That's all they > said. Can someone explain to me please what is what? Thanks/ > > Happy Railroading > > Bob Wight > > > > --------------------------------- > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11374	From: JRobbie99@aol.com	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Re: Repros etc.

You asking me Doobie?? I'd pass on the 40 Ford, however, if they made a 1969 Mustang Boss 429 for under $20/K I'd be interested.. :o)~. On the Gabe... you haven't found one you'd pay $1000 for cause I haven't offered you mine, although being near mint in OB, you'd pay a LOT more that $1000. The one shown in the e-bay link actually went high as it was spotted all over with rust, and had other defects. Just like you Doobie, stirring up the board again... :o)~~ Take care my friend... David

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11375	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Lionel(AF)

Scott: maybe the LTI people are just sitting around listening to old Neil Young records, specifically "...Helpless, helpless, helpless, helpless..." Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11376	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: see Lionel's Gabe, s'mill, S'board coaler reissues

http://www.lots-trains.org/ open the 2001 online catalog, scroll down to the page with all three shown ([age090-091), click, and viola - - I wonder if 1) AC Gilbert stickers will really be on the coal loader - - not, 2) the sawmill will come with a black log dolly and induction motor instead of yellow dolly with a can motor - - not likely, but at least the man might come with brown shirt and hopefully facing the right direction, 3) Gabe will slide down the ladder rather than one step at a time as is rumored will be the case with MTH's - - hmmmm, now that's possible. For $70 less, time to cancel your the MTH order, ???? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11377	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: correction to Lionel Gabe

I mean for $20 less than MTH's. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11378	From: John Foley	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Computers

Hi Folks You may fine this interesting, partiality in you live in or near Pa, or are planning to visit the middle of this February. It seems that if you buy a new computer system in Pa. between Feb. 18th to Feb. 25th you will not have to pay sales tax. So I am planning on shopping for a new computer myself. For more info go to http://www.taxfreepc.state.pa.us John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11379	From: Robert Wight	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Lionel Response

Hey guys and gals; Just thought some of you might get a kick out of this. I sent Lionel another request with my full name and address. This time I asked for a catalog. Then i gave them my full name and address right after. The response i got was. Send us your full name and address and we will send you a catalog when one becomes available. Here in Minnesota we have an expression. UFFDA... Anyways thanks for the link to the online catalog it is very nice and is all i need. Thanks. Happy Railroading --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11380	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Re: Repros

Dear Chris, I think that market pressures determine the price of items. It seems to me, that repros will decrease demand for items that are not excellent or better. If you look at the current price of some of the more sought after original PA sets, they have not gone up in price as much as the accesories since "L" remade the MP, NP, UP etc. PAs Don T. busyboy wrote: > Tom Jarcho said: > >every time an item is reproduced, it lowers the value of most originals. > It's > >just like someone reaching into my pocket, taking out some dollars, and > >putting them in his pocket. > > Here's how I feel about that, Tom. > If your item is mint, it is a highly prized collectible. > If your item is rare, it is a greatly sought piece, almost regardless of > condition. > If the item is reproduced, collector's, the ones with the big bucks to pay > for a prize like yours will still shell out top dollar for the real McCoy. > That one like it is now being made does not mean that the new one can > replace the original in a serious collection. > If a repro is made, guys like me get to have one to play with. We were > NEVER going to part with the money it would take to buy yours. We might, if > we preferred owning the original, be willing to buy a less than perfect copy > and refinish it. We can afford it now that the reproduction has flooded the > operators market. > You cannot take away from the collector's market with a repro, because it is > not a re-issue. People started to hoard Cabbage Patch dolls because they > were in short supply. After Christmas, the manufacturer made more. They > were indistinguishable from the originals, right down to the UPC code. The > inflated value of the collected dolls sank like a stone. Re-issues will > kill collectibility. That's the whole idea behind limited editions. > > Reproductions of the merchandise of a long gone company are not originals. > They are different in some small, but significant way. People who are > collectors will be unfazed by a repro. Their collection won't be complete > until they get one of each original. > > cordially, > Chris Zizzo > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New standard flat cars with loads are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/fcwithloads_in_stock.html http://www.showcaseline.com/fc_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11381	From: Scott Holm	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Repros

The perfect stuff to repro is the stuff that costs the most, like Gabe, the coalers, and the track gang. I'd also like to see a Moe and Joe lumber unloading car, a 21155 docksider, the checkerboard tower, and the heavyweight passenger cars. I think MTH should be commended for getting into Flyer. Certainly not boycotted. Why should a few collectors deny the rest of us the experience of having and operating some of rarer accessories? Should no prints be made of original artwork, or recordings of live concerts? These too are reproductions that allow the less priveleged to experience the essence of the original. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11382	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Re: "Repro" AF Accessories, Operating Cars

Dear Chris, All of the re-issue EVC will have new numbers. The AT&SF will have new paint masks for the cupola (white - pool service). The MEC will be a different scheme. It is a bit more work that just sending a fax. Don PS I like the digial brake sounds. busyboy wrote: Look at your current situation. You're out of stock on some wide-vision caboose roadnames. To meet demand, you decide to run another 100 of a > popular name. Doing so requires no additional engineering. No drawings > need be made. You do not set out to copy the first run as accurately as > possible. You just make a phone call to your production supervisor and > order up another 100 of item X. It's just more of an ongoing, existing > stock. If, however, 30 years from now, the guys who bought SHS from you (at > an astounding record price) decide to offer a "re-issue of those popular > cabooses we made back in the end of the last Century", they most likely will > be making a reproduction. The molds might be there, but new paint masks > will be made, new numbers chosen. (Maybe the new management won't be so > fussy and I can have one in UP livery, now that I'm 83, hmmph!) Paint > formulations from 2030 will be used as well as contemporary plastics > formulas. The now proven new type of truck and coupler developed in 2015 > will be installed in place of the one we know here in the past. And of > course, this car will be offered with smoke and brake sounds and a new > digital lighting system. > > It won't be a re-issue. It will be a reproduction. > > Clear on the hanger, > Chris Zizzo -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New standard flat cars with loads are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/fcwithloads_in_stock.html http://www.showcaseline.com/fc_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11383	From: Neil Trump	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Lionels repro offerings

I seem to remember a post some time ago, where from I forget, that the Lionel bods had found some more Flyer tooling but wouldn't let on what they were. We can all agree on the sawmill tooling being pretty well complete and I see no reason for the 'Gabe' tooling not to be original, in part. What I do find a mystery is that they claim to be reproducing the 752 from original tooling. OK the clam shell and a few other bits *may* be original but I would have thought that good old AC would have disposed of much of the other tooling for the base, tower etc on the introduction of the 785 loader, or I am I talking a load of old b*'#~&%!s Neil T. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11384	From: busyboy	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Repros

Steve said: >Let's hear it from all of you that would buy a reproduction, reintroduction, >reissue, copy, or clone of a 1940 Ford coupe. It would have all the modern >day technology of course.... Steve: I'm planning to replace my aging minivan with a Chrysler PT Cruiser. Now what's that if not a look-alike for a 1934 Chrysler Airflow? Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11385	From: busyboy	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Re: Lionel(AF)

Tom wrote: >Maybe the LTI people are just sitting around listening to old Neil >Young records, specifically "...Helpless, helpless, helpless, helpless..." You'll know that's happening when the only livery they produce is Southern, Man. With MTH, they waited way too long to announce the identical accessories. You stand still, you rust, and Rust Never Sleeps. Oh, looky, theres another one. Why double produce the same items? Make something else. I don't care who was first. The other guy should make something else and stop saturating the market. You want to know why your NP, MP, UP, SF, NH Bankers and Silver Flash streamliners aren't worth much more than when you bought them? Same reason the non-repro sets such as the CZ aren't appreciating. Market saturation; of sets and of PA's. You can buy the things anywhere. Local church hall train meets have 2 or 3 new sets plus extra cars and engines galore. York has hundreds, even thousands. They're on e-Bay every day. Supply is up, so demand is low. No demand, no money. The old issues still draw down the big bucks. I see them all over the 'net. UP sets especially, are priced crazy high. Banker's sets, fughedaboudit. If Lionel made an S 0-8-0, demand would be high. But years from now, provided they didn't make a jillion of them, they would be difficult to find and they would bring an appreciated price. Mint originals would still be originals, drawing the appropriate bucks. And the beauty part; all those doggy, chipped and broken 342's would be finally free to head for the paint shop and begin their new second life as prized motive power. Clear on the hanger, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11386	From: Larry Huff	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: S Gagian

I am interested in the magazine S Gagian. Do they have a web site that might give me more information about their publication and how to subscribe? Larry Huff Munroe Falls, OH

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11387	From: busyboy	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Flyer from LTI

Here's a question. What are those 4 S-gauge cars doing on the page preceding the accessories? Are we supposed to buy them? I already have too many of three of them in original form. Am I supposed to get all shook up over the Borden's car? I might, if I found a mint original in Kleer-Pak for the 50 or so bucks they're asking. But it's not about owning a milk car, is it? It's about owning a 5 digit mint specimen in original packing. This stuff isn't worth a second look. I know I may be coming off a little ungrateful here. I AM glad that Lionel is producing Flyer again. But the failure scenario keeps raising its ugly head. 1. )Make uninteresting Flyer. 2.)It doesn't sell. 3.)Conclusion, there's no market for Flyer. 4.)Stop making Flyer. 5.)Get beseeching letters for a couple of years. 6.)Yield. 7.)Make uninteresting Flyer. Lionel keeps descending the seven steps to failure while cool new trains are popping out of SHS and AM. I've only got just so much money. I can't waste it. Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11388	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: (no subject)

Larry, The web site IS www.heimburgerhouse.com their phone# is (708 ) 3661973 Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11389	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Re: S Gagian

S Gaugian website is www.heimburgerhouse.com Larry Huff wrote: > > I am interested in the magazine S Gagian. Do they have a web site > that might give me more information about their publication and how > to subscribe? > Larry Huff > Munroe Falls, OH > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11390	From: John Foley	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: NASG Convention hotel

Hi Folks Well the rooms just about gone in The Radisson Lackawnna Station hotel Also the 2nd hotel the Clarion is also filling so if you are coming to the convention call the Clarion at 570 344-9811 ASAP. Tell them your with the NASG for our rate. John foley

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11391	From: Roy Inman	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Lionel repros: take 147

Lots of good thoughts on the Flyer repros by MTH/Lionel. One .02's worth: I am an operator more than a collector. The same things that drew me to trains and accessories as a kid continue to draw me now. I like the way Flyer stuff works as well as the way it looks. But, I cannot afford the archival treasures from the Gilbert days. So, fortunately for me, I can have an accessory or whatever, that replicates the original, that works, so I can put on my layout, and that I can afford to purchase with these hard-earned freelance dollars. (I know, dollars are hard-earned for all of us these days.) I have great respect and admiration for the collectors, and plus I love to oggle their collections. But if they plan on becoming independently wealthy collecting trains, they may have chosen a tough row to hoe. But what do I know...I am one of those guys who buys high and then winds up having to sell low, but then I don't buy trains as in investment, just as an enjoyment. Remember, just .02's worth... Regards, Roy Inman

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11392	From: Gary Chidester	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Stockyard help

Forgive me if this has been posted before, but I recently acquired a 771 Stockyard and my cows need new felt! Can someone suggest a suitable replacement? gary

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11393	From: David A. Highfield	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: DC TRANSFORMER?

Can someone recommend a currently-produced DC power pack/transformer that will run AF steam engines with power to spare? Dave

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11394	From: plotnick	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Repros are ok, but I want new accesories!

The title says it all. Although I am happy with both originals and repros of the old Gilbert operating accesso6ires, what I would really like to see are some new and creative ones. How about an oil pump to go with the oil derrick? I really liked, for example, the Lionel Hobby Store that I saw on someone's layout. -Roy Plotnick

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11395	From: joe messinger	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Smoke

Robert Wight mentioned in his post on smoke that he found a web site that offered some details on how smoke units should work and included information on various types of smoke fluid. Robert: Could you share the address of that web site with us? Sounds pretty interesting to me. . . Thanks, Joe Messinger _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11396	From: scott griggs	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Re: Repros etc.

Wayne, I think the reason the Lionel PA's haven't increased in price is because they were never marketed as a child's toy. Consequently, many who bought them squirreled them away without opening the boxes. There are probably thousands of new-in-box Lionel MoPac passengers sets for every mint Gilbert original in existence. Lionel and MTH can conduct market research very effectively (and inexpensively) by simply observing trends in the collector market for Gilbert originals. I wonder what they might be considering next. They might be running out of stuff that is a) rare enough and b) has a sufficiently broad appeal to today's operators and collectors. A list of possibilities: 21004 switchers, 594 track gangs (kind of obscure), Union Stations, UP Northerns? I never expected AF stamped sheet-metal accessories to be made again... --- In S-Trains@egroups.com, wayne broadhead <wayne@c...> wrote: > Hi Steve and all, > > I am just pleased as can be that MTH and L is going to remake the > accessories. I have been happy with my reissued PA sets by Lionel for > many years. Of course I wish I could have a mint in box Gabe, or NP PA > set.....but the facts are that few of us make 6 figure incomes. > > I personally wonder if the remakes affect prices that much. When ever I > come across a LN NP, or MPoc set..they are always expensive...to much > for me. I haven't seen the prices come down on these originals. > > The only thing that has surprised me is that I can still buy a Lionel > Flyer MOPac set for the same price that I bought mine for years ago. > Same for the UP set.....saw a NP set in the TCA quarterly for only 50 > dollars more than i paid for mine several years ago. > > I would have thought that these beautiful sets would have gone up in > value alot more by now. > > Wayne > > > > boss31@a... wrote: > > > > In a message dated 01/24/2001 2:23:11 AM Mountain Standard Time, > > S-Trains@egroups.com writes: > > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=544201130 > > > > > > > > Let's hear it from all of you that would buy a reproduction, reintroduction, > > reissue, copy, or clone of a 1940 Ford coupe. It would have all the modern > > day technology of course.... How about you David? It wouldn't effect the > > value of an original by 1c......I'm buying a re-______ (fill in the blanks) > > Gabe. Never found an original one I wanted to pay $1,000+ for. > > Keep it coming, I love it.....Steve > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@e...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11397	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Re: Repros etc.

Steve, & All, 40 Ford?? Hmm, as with my eccentricity of "enjoying" AC reverse unit operation, I keep my cars authentic not for just the preservation of history, but for the "enjoyment" of dealing with their quirks and (sometimes) lack of functionality. A '40s too new anyway, give me stuff with running boards! If I were rich, they'd call me "eccentric" but because I'm not, I'm either "Crazy" or "weird"! ;-) S' David D. PS, my order is already in for a Gabe & a Log Loader--and I'm crossing my fingers on the Coal Loader, Feb 15 is approaching fast!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11398	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Flyin'L Accessories

Interesting, now that I've finally viewed the catalog, I notice that the text talks a lot about "The real thing" "original tooling" "buy real Flyer" etc. The L gabe does appear to use the metal shed, the MTH looks like the plastic shed--or am I seeing things? The coal loader is the only really new product here, IMHO, as the sawmill has been around (and you can bet I'm going to buy one at this price!!) before. The Milk flat is no big deal, IMHO, but an operating milk car would be! But enough of this, it does look like this year, my AF will have some accessory additions! S' David D. And after all these years looking for a clamshell, I get one, and now they reproduce bothe versions! AAAUGH!!!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11399	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 1/24/2001
Subject: Re: [showcaseline] Digest Number 101

Rocco, I could not agree with you more on the aspect of adding the accessories for their play value. My Christmas layout has 3 or 4 buttons for the kids to push, Cows ,Barrel loader ,water tower and whistling billboard. that is exactly what keeps them standing next to the trains for an hour or more. Not just the trains running in circles. My wife has already made me order the MTH accessories, I can't wait to add more to the layout. I don't care if it says MTH, Lionel ,AF, or SHS for that matter. The more the better. Bring em on! Chris Burger [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11400	From: Rick {bAss-flyer} Evans	Date: 1/25/2001
Subject: Lionel catalog.....

On page 88 of the new Lionel catalog,....is that a BROKEN step I see on the AF UP Hopper???? Hope this is no indication of quality control!! Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11401	From: scott griggs	Date: 1/25/2001
Subject: Re: Flyin'L Accessories

I noticed that there was no mention of original tooling in the description for the 752 Seaboard Coal Loader. Since that piece hasn't been manufactured since the early 1950s and was replaced in the Gilbert line by the 785, I would be really surprised if the tooling survived. --- In S-Trains@egroups.com, "David Dewey" <djdewey@c...> wrote: > Interesting, now that I've finally viewed the catalog, I notice that the > text talks a lot about "The real thing" "original tooling" "buy real Flyer" > etc.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11402	From: TPDavis7@aol.com	Date: 1/25/2001
Subject: Re: DC TRANSFORMER?

Check out CHICGO MODEL INTERNATIONAL's "SUPER BLUE", model no.156. It has a "DIAL-A-GAUGE" feature, this variable control not only limits the output voltage but sets the waveform appropriate to the scale train being run. Also has walk-around system, 100VA power, fan cooled, memory...train runs unplugged, variable momentum and other features like the spring 'Air' braking system. This is a great power pack and I suggest you give it a try. Tom Davis, Charlotte, NC [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11403	From: Jack Sink	Date: 1/25/2001
Subject: Coal Loader

Wonder why they chose the 752 and not the 752A? Another case of not doing the homework? Why did AF think it was necessary to make the 752A? The A would be a few dollars more for a different switch and other changes to chute etc, but worth the cost I think. Jack S. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11404	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 1/25/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer from LTI

In a message dated 1/24/01 9:12:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, busyboy@... writes: << Am I supposed to get all shook up over the Borden's car? I might, if I found a mint original in Kleer-Pak for the 50 or so bucks they're asking. >> I guess we all would! A Borden's M/OCP would price out above $150 these days. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11405	From: rhoffman@innernet.net	Date: 1/25/2001
Subject: SSL&S Mogul

There are some new shots of the Mogul on the SSL&S website. http://www.sscaleloco.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11406	From: rhoffman@innernet.net	Date: 1/25/2001
Subject: SSL&S Mogul

There are some new shots of the Mogul on the SSL&S website. http://www.sscaleloco.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11407	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 1/25/2001
Subject: OK, so who out there

told Lionel we wanted a blue GN box car, another gondola with containers (white unlabeled generic ones no less), a Bordens flat car and yet another hopper to boot? You mean none of you? Well than what did Lionel Product Managers do to choose what to make - - buy a case of Old MI', sit around throwing darts at postwar Flyer catalogs? Guess so. No doubt this will confirm it again - - no sales, no market, bag S, other than, of course, for cool accessories (for which I'm grateful assuming they actually materialize) that O-gauge people will wanna buy. Geez, somebody just make something we haven't already seen, or can find without hardly looking, or don't care to buy even if it is available. With all the great motive power, rolling stock, etc. that once rolled the rails, how hard can that be? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11408	From: Rick {bAss-flyer} Evans	Date: 1/25/2001
Subject: Cancel my MTH Gabe.......

If I'm gonna buy a "re-issue", "re-pro", or whatever ya want to call it,...of a Gabe the Lamplighter,..I at least want one that says AMERICAN FLYER on it!!! I will be canceling my order of the MTH one!! Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11409	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 1/25/2001
Subject: Cancel my MTH Gabe

All this talk reminds me of Jim Morrison: "Cancel my subscription to the resurrection..." Sorry, couldn't resist. Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11410	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 1/25/2001
Subject: Thoughts on lastest Lionel/Flyer

Freight cars: Zzzzzzzz. Although about 5 years ago I would've jumped at the milk car and even the gondola(simply because it's CB&Q). But, SHS and AM put out better cars for less $$$. I'm not really into Flyer accessories, but... Gabe: Not really interested in Gabe, mainly because I don't think it's that 'attractive' an accessory. Don't have an original, didn't order the MTH repro. Betch'ca MTH drops the price 20 bucks on theirs, though. Sawmill: If I wanted one, s'pose this one's as good as any. Coal loader: Probably pick up this one 'cause it's neat. Well, I didn't really expect much in the way of Flyer from Lionel, so I'm not disappointed. Looking over the rest of the catalog, one can see that Lionel's still concentrating their endeavors on their primary nemesis, MTH. Be seeing you... Rich G.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11411	From: loubaldi@aol.com	Date: 1/25/2001
Subject: 8 or 7 Items

Wasn't there a posting on this board some time ago that Lionel would have eight (8) new AF items in their 2001 catalog? I count only seven (7). Maybe its not the production end of the business that should be in China?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11412	From: Bob Sylsbury	Date: 1/25/2001
Subject: Any thoughts....?

Dear Group, Which A.F. accessories do you think will work better,Lionel or M.T.H. ? Which company do you think wil hit the market first with their versions of the A.F. accessories ? Please e-mail me or post any and all thoughts or ideas ! "S"incerely........Bob

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11413	From: Bob Sylsbury	Date: 1/25/2001
Subject: Posting Question......

Dear Gruop, I am in several "e-groups" S-train,A.F. S-scale...etc. Does any one know how I can post my questions in just one "e-group" and they can be posted in all of "my groups" ?Please e-mail me or post it. Thanks...Bob

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11414	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/25/2001
Subject: Re: Posting Question......

Don't know what mail program you use, but somewhere in the address book menu there should be an option to make up a group where you can indert a list of addresses. That should do what you want. Bob Sylsbury wrote: > > Dear Gruop, > I am in several "e-groups" S-train,A.F. S-scale...etc. > Does any one know how I can post my questions in just one "e-group" > and they can be posted in all of "my groups" ?Please e-mail me or > post it. > Thanks...Bob > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11415	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 1/25/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 889

S-Group: Reproduction versus original? Trains as Investment material? Buyers remorse? When a person buys a car and drives it out the door it loses a lot of money, right? Buy a computer and it is obsolete before you can plug it in and get it running, right? Digital cameras,cell phones,pagers, and house hold goods have little resale value. yet same person will buy a toy train and expect to double his money over night !!! WHY IS THIS? If you worry about how much you are losing on your trains may by you paid to much. Model Railroading is fun, lets keep it that way, make your investments at the bank or stock market. One trip thru York PA. at show time will tell you their are plenty of trains to go around, and many in your price range. Jerry 77-11644 ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11416	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 1/25/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 890

David Highfield: Model Rectifier Corp. builds good power supplies, with meters and momentum and other features. If you want a lot of D.C. power with out all the bells and whistles, get an # 12B 250 watt A.F. transformer , run each side (Train A and train B)thru a full wave rectifiers and a D.P.D.T. switch to reverse the polarity, you will have about 10 amps total, more power than the government will allow in new transformers Jerry 77-11644 ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11417	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 1/25/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 890

Hey, don't let out my secret about the 12B. I have my original one from when I was a kid, and over the last few years I've bought about a dozen, never paying more than $75. Why pay $150-250 for the 30B or 22090? The 12B has lots of power for almost any use, just doesn't have the little bells and whistles. Roger Petrella Franktown, CO Gerald R Dobbs wrote: > David Highfield: > > Model Rectifier Corp. builds good power supplies, with meters and > momentum > and other features. If you want a lot of D.C. power with out all the > bells and whistles, > get an # 12B 250 watt A.F. transformer , run each side (Train A and > train B)thru a full > wave rectifiers and a D.P.D.T. switch to reverse the polarity, you will > have about 10 amps > total, more power than the government will allow in new transformers > > Jerry 77-11644 > > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11418	From: Peck	Date: 1/25/2001
Subject: Re: '01 AF

I won't bother everyone posting details here. Anyone interested in pre-ordering any of the 2001 AF line, email us direct for details and terms. Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11419	From: max meise	Date: 1/25/2001
Subject: Re: Cancel my MTH Gabe.......

Do not cancel your order yet. I called my L dealer and they do not have the catalog or a dealer's price list yet. With all that's going on with L, I would not cancel until I was sure L was going to produce. -----Original Message----- From: Rick {bAss-flyer} Evans <comic@...> To: S-Trains@egroups.com <S-Trains@egroups.com> Date: Thursday, January 25, 2001 1:55 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Cancel my MTH Gabe....... >If I'm gonna buy a "re-issue", "re-pro", or whatever ya want to call >it,...of a Gabe the Lamplighter,..I at least want one that says >AMERICAN FLYER on it!!! > >I will be canceling my order of the MTH one!! > >Rick. > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11420	From: Roy Inman	Date: 1/25/2001
Subject: Lionel cat/ take 250...

While I can't say with conviction that I was pleased with the LAF (Lionel American Flyer) offerings, at least they ARE offerings. Sort of like the proverbial bone tossed out the back door for the old cur. What I do not like (and I see I am not alone here) are the $49.00 price tags on the cars! SHS stuff is at least twice as good for about $10.00 less. All a matter of perception, which is reality in human terms: to some just the AF nametag is worth more, and each to his own. I will probably buy one or two for that very reason, but not all for sure. If they were, say $35.00, maybe. Interestingly, the accessories seem more reasonably priced, as those things go. Regards to all, Roy Inman

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11421	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/26/2001
Subject: obsoleteness, Cheaper stuff AFTER you buy, etc. (mostly humor)

Jerry, Your post reminds me of the the trueism: What is the first sign that your computer is outdated? > > > The salesclerk hands you your reciept. How do I know a new "repro" train item will go down in price? I buy it. How do I know it will go up? I don't buy it when it's first released! Well, that's mostly true. . . . ;-) S' David D. PS In my family it's known as "The Dewey Effect"; works for real estate, etc. etc. etc.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11422	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 1/26/2001
Subject: Yahoo Conversion of eGroups

Yahoo has converted the (eGroups)lists over from eGroup lists to Yahoo clubs(sorta), anyway... This will not effect folks that never visit eGroups.com to look at files of to edit your account. If you do visit the site .... The first time you visit ... Use your Yahoo account info to log in..(the lists are now inside a yahoo login) (If you don't have a Yahoo account create one.) Then it takes you to a screen that allows you to convert your eGroups account(s) over to your Yahoo account. It sound more complicated than it is. It this good or bad? I don't know yet, but I suspect that it will be mostly seamless. Paul Yorke - List moderator for S-Trains & S-Scale P.S I will be happy to assist folks with there accounts, but i encourage you to convert your account, and use your existing yahoo info, or if you don't have a yahoo create one, it's free. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11423	From: joestrainrepair@yahoo.com	Date: 1/26/2001
Subject: Yahoo! Auto Response

Attachments : Joe's Train Repair is closed until February 1st. All messages will be replied to when the shop is re-opened. Thanks, Joe -------------------- Original Message: Received: from fk.egroups.com (64.211.240.232) by mta227.mail.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Jan 2001 05:08:41 -0800 (PST) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-26283-891-980514030-joestrainrepair=yahoo.com@... Received: from [10.1.4.56] by fk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 26 Jan 2001 13:00:32 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <980514030.317.46183.l10@yahoogroups.com> Mailing-List: list S-Trains@yahoogroups.com; contact S-Trains-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:S-Trains-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com> Date: 26 Jan 2001 13:00:30 -0000 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [S-Trains] Digest Number 891 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... - _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11424	From: Robert Wight	Date: 1/26/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 890

--------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11425	From: sigma@ecn.ab.ca	Date: 1/26/2001
Subject: Re: prototypes

Does anyone know what specific cars were the prototypes for Flyer 652, 653, 654 and 655? Joe Pereira email: sigma@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11426	From: Alex	Date: 1/26/2001
Subject: TEST - disregard - delete

test

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11427	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/26/2001
Subject: Fw: VIRUS WARNING FROM MICROSOFT & MCAFEE

Hi all I usually don't forward this stuff, but this comes from a friend who works in a software developement company, so should be on the up & up. S' David ----- Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 11:00 AM Subject: Fw: VIRUS WARNING FROM MICROSOFT & MCAFEE > Hi, > This is from our IS department. You are forwarned. AMK > ---------------------- Forwarded by Austin Kilburn/HQ/dssi on 01/26/2001 > 11:01 AM --------------------------- > > > Terry Gross > 01/26/2001 08:15 AM > > To: DSSI - All > cc: > Subject: Fw: VIRUS WARNING FROM MICROSOFT & MCAFEE > > > PLEASE ADVISE EVERYONE YOU KNOW > > Subject: A new virus has just been discovered that has been classified by > Microsoft > (www.microsoft.com )and by McAfee(www.mcafee.com ) as the most destructive > ever! This virus was discovered yesterday afternoon by McAfee and no > vaccine has yet been developed. This virus simply destroys Sector Zero from > the hard disk, where vital information for its functioning are stored. This > virus acts in the following manner: > > It sends itself automatically to all contacts on your list with the title > "A Virtual Card for You".As soon as the supposed virtual card is opened, > the computer freezes so that the user has to reboot. When the ctrl+alt+del > keys or the reset button are pressed, the virus destroys Sector Zero, thus > permanently destroying the harddisk. Yesterday in just a few hours this > virus caused > panic in New York, according to news broadcast by CNN www.cnn.com ). This > alert was received by an employee of Microsoft itself. So don't open any > mails with subject "A Virtual Card for You". As soon as you get the mail, > delete it. Please pass on this mail to everyone you know. > > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11428	From: Dave0616@aol.com	Date: 1/26/2001
Subject: Smoker Repair

Here is a helpfull tip for the repair manual. At the last York meet I finally found a really nice 21155 docksider that was actually priced within sanity. On arriving home I gave it a good clean and lube and gave her a test run. I was very dissapointed to see the smoke barely dribble out of the stack. I tried changing the unit and the piston, all to no avail. I am sure there are some who have locos with these HO sized smokers in them such as the Franklins or docker that may not smoke worth a hoot either. Well, here is a sure fix. The basic problem is that the smoker air hole behind the choo choo baffle is barely the size of a hair. How any air at all gets thru there is amazing. Its evident that not much does, and thats the problem, no air, no puff. The fix is to take an extra fine drill bit of good quality that will go thru that metal. First remove the choo choo baffle cover so you can see that little chamber, its your target. Look down the stack hole, and try to determine which side the element is leaning to so you can avoid it. Then, very very carefully drill straight thru the front cover, and on thru the back wall of the smoke chamber into the choo choo baffle chamber making sure to avoid the element. Be very careful not to drill crooked so that the bit comes out too high on the other end. Once your hole is drilled, fill the tiny hole you made in the front cover with some epoxy. Blow out the drill shavings from the choo choo baffle chamber. Flood he unit with cheap smoke fluid and flush out the drill shavings. Do this twice. Replace your choo choo baffle chamber cover, and reinstall the unit in your loco. Now watch that smoke puff out of that stack.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11429	From: Scott Holm	Date: 1/26/2001
Subject: Re: Fw: VIRUS WARNING FROM MICROSOFT & MCAFEE

This too is a hoax. The tipoff is that the warning comes from Microsoft. Microsoft does not issue virus alerts. Here is a link to McAfee's site where they advise not to pass on this hoax warning: http://vil.mcafee.com/dispVirus.asp?virus_k=98893& Here is Symantics page about it: http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/virtual.card.hoax.html --- David Dewey <djdewey@...> wrote: > Hi all > I usually don't forward this stuff, but this comes from a friend who > works > in a software developement company, so should be on the up & up. > S' > David > ----- > Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 11:00 AM > Subject: Fw: VIRUS WARNING FROM MICROSOFT & MCAFEE > > > > Hi, > > This is from our IS department. You are forwarned. AMK > > ---------------------- Forwarded by Austin Kilburn/HQ/dssi on > 01/26/2001 > > 11:01 AM --------------------------- > > > > > > Terry Gross > > 01/26/2001 08:15 AM > > > > To: DSSI - All > > cc: > > Subject: Fw: VIRUS WARNING FROM MICROSOFT & MCAFEE > > > > > > PLEASE ADVISE EVERYONE YOU KNOW > > > > Subject: A new virus has just been discovered that has been > classified by > > Microsoft > > (www.microsoft.com )and by McAfee(www.mcafee.com ) as the most > destructive > > ever! This virus was discovered yesterday afternoon by McAfee and > no > > vaccine has yet been developed. This virus simply destroys Sector > Zero > from > > the hard disk, where vital information for its functioning are > stored. > This > > virus acts in the following manner: > > > > It sends itself automatically to all contacts on your list with the > title > > "A Virtual Card for You".As soon as the supposed virtual card is > opened, > > the computer freezes so that the user has to reboot. When the > ctrl+alt+del > > keys or the reset button are pressed, the virus destroys Sector > Zero, thus > > permanently destroying the harddisk. Yesterday in just a few hours > this > > virus caused > > panic in New York, according to news broadcast by CNN www.cnn.com > ). > This > > alert was received by an employee of Microsoft itself. So don't > open any > > mails with subject "A Virtual Card for You". As soon as you get the > mail, > > delete it. Please pass on this mail to everyone you know. > > > > > > > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11430	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/26/2001
Subject: Re: VIRUS WARNING FROM MICROSOFT & MCAFEE--HOAX! AUUGH!

My apologies to all, this turns out to be a hoax. So much for my friend's expertise! Next time I'll wait for confirmation. Sorry. David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11431	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 1/26/2001
Subject: Sunday chat??

Hey Paul, and guys: What are we gonna do about a chat this weekend? The Super Joke* is on Sunday night, and I don't want to miss it. Should we chat during the 6 hour pre game show? Or Saturday? Tom Jarcho *Oughta be a good game. I''ve been a Giants fan since 1960. This is the weakest Giants team I've ever seen make the playoffs, and the Ravens didn't score a touchdown for seven games in a row, right? This is going to be some interesting stuff.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11432	From: John Foley	Date: 1/26/2001
Subject: (no subject)

Hi Folks have you seen this website? http://www.gts22.com/ S gauge Figures John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11433	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 1/26/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale]

Dear John, Some very nice jpegs of Artisttas figures. Don T. John Foley wrote: > Hi Folks have you seen this website? > > http://www.gts22.com/ > > S gauge Figures > John > > The topic is S Scale please keep your messages 'on-topic'. > To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@... -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New standard flat cars with loads are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/fcwithloads_in_stock.html http://www.showcaseline.com/fc_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11434	From: S-Trains@egroups.com	Date: 1/26/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, January 28, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11435	From: John Foley	Date: 1/26/2001
Subject: Convention Hotels

Hi Folks they has been some confusion about the rooms available for the convention. The Lackawanna Station hotel is full for now, We are going to try and secure more rooms THERE. But we have two other hotels. The Clarion at http://looksmart.placestostay.com/script/gen_prop.asp?hotel_id=17922&n=1568 And the Comfort Suites at http://www.travelnow.com/usa/pennsylvania/hotel/scranton_133883.html Both are Excellent, Close to the convention, Free pickup at airport and will shuttle between the hotels. Convention website with new info. http://trainweb.org/steamtown2001/ John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11436	From: Jim Hannawald	Date: 1/26/2001
Subject: Switches

Can someone on this list please tell me how to tell the difference between the 720 and 720A switches? I have been unable to find a number on the ones that I have, I believe they are the 720A's. Thanks

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11437	From: Rick Evans	Date: 1/26/2001
Subject: Yahoooooooooo! Groups.....

Went to the S-trains site (like I always do) and found that the Yahoo and egroup merger went into effect. For any of those that go to the site to read posts and haven't done so yet,...you need to just re- enter your email address and you're back in business! Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11438	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/26/2001
Subject: Re: Sunday chat??

What game?? ;-) (I'm usually gone this weekend looking for car parts at the Turlock Swap meet (a mini-Hershey meet) anyway!) I'll be there if we get back from Grass Valley in time (Gotta go visit Linda's Dad) S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11439	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/26/2001
Subject: Re: Switches

Well, one way would be to throw the manual lever until the switch is about half-way between "switching" then apply power to the switch coil. The 720 will not get any power to the coils, as the disconnect switch inside is at it's mid-point. This is one of the main reasons the switches were reworked; if your switch didn't "quite" throw, you were unable to "unthrow" it and had to go over and manually move it. S David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11440	From: Rick Evans	Date: 1/26/2001
Subject: Re: Yahoooooooooo! Groups.....

--- In S-Trains@y..., "Rick Evans" <comic@d...> wrote: > Went to the S-trains site (like I always do) and found that the Yahoo > and egroup merger went into effect. For any of those that go to the > site to read posts and haven't done so yet,...you need to just re- > enter your email address and you're back in business! > > Rick. Ok,...I fibbed, there's more.....yahoo will send you a number code that you enter, then you can post in your groups.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11441	From: Rick Evans	Date: 1/26/2001
Subject: Sunday night chat.....

I may not be at chat.....church concert I might go to.... ...and I HATE the Giants!! Everyone have a good Super Bowl and/or chat!! Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11442	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/26/2001
Subject: Re: Switches

720's have a switch machine housing composed if a square and a rectangle next to it when looking down on the switch. 720A's have only a square housing for the switch machine. Also 720's have a manual throw lever between the track and the switch mchine. 720A's do not. Controllers are different. 720's handles stay in the the thrown position. 720A's spring back to center position after being thrown. 720'S keep power on the switch. If you manually throw it against the setting you will feel a resistance and a hum. 720A's are much better. My old 720's tended to develop warping of the base so the contacts that power the downstream tracks then did not work well. Jim Hannawald wrote: > > Can someone on this list please tell me how to tell the difference between > the 720 and 720A switches? > > I have been unable to find a number on the ones that I have, I believe they > are the 720A's. > > Thanks > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11443	From: busyboy	Date: 1/26/2001
Subject: Fw: American Flyer Smoke Repair Kits W/ Display

Got this today. Thanks, Chris Zizzo ----- Original Message ----- From: <Bellymoo@...> To: <busyboy@...> Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 8:41 PM Subject: Re: American Flyer Smoke Repair Kits W/ Display > ok chris......i just today received the smoke repair kit. as you might have > guessed, & even w/o being tipped off by you, the pkg appears to be a " made > in the basement " offering. i am going to ask for a refund & see what > happens. all components of pkg appear to be new....cardstock, advertisement, > bags, contents, instructions, etc. > we'll see what happens......any suggestions? dan >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11444	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 1/26/2001
Subject: NEW ADDRESS TEST

Test only

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11445	From: pdwrr@nac.net	Date: 1/26/2001
Subject: Need help finding old S Gaugian Magazine

Hello Everyone, Does anyone in the group, know of a source for "S Gaugian" magazines going back to Sept & Nov of 82. Thanks Robert F. Kelly Port Delaware & Western RR Co.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11447	From: Trbngs@cs.com	Date: 1/27/2001
Subject: Re: Need help finding old S Gaugian Magazine

--- In S-Trains@y..., pdwrr@n... wrote: > Does anyone in the group, know of a source for "S Gaugian" magazines going back to Sept & Nov of 82. > Harriet Horr has many of these and other magazines from the late Ernie Hoor's collection and wishes to sell them. Harriet is not on the internet but says you can call 509-325-0392. I can also pass email messages to her. Hope this helps, Tom Bangs

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11448	From: Rick Evans	Date: 1/27/2001
Subject: Re: Need help finding old S Gaugian Magazine

Check out this site for back issues of quite a few RR Magazines.... www.railpub.com Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11449	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 1/27/2001
Subject: Re: prototypes

sigma@... wrote: > Does anyone know what specific cars were the prototypes for Flyer 652, > 653, 654 and 655? > Joe Pereira > > email: sigma@... > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... I have contended for years that the B&O heavyweights were prototypes. The 653 can be traced to cars like (originally) B&O National Road, a bag/smoker/coach, that later went to EMD, then to Rock Island as an instruction car, then to a Michigan private owner. There is a 13-foot long section between the baggage door and the 5 paired windows per side that contained 3 single windows. When this section is removed, to get AF's famous foreshortening, the results are identical. Additionally, if you have two of these 653/953 shells, preferable two that came from the same mold and plastic material batch, you can carefully cut the shell just ahead of the double windows then you can butt the two coach-section pieces together to get a full-length shell that looks very much like the B&O 5900-series coach that is pix'ed in the car cyc. DJE

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11450	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 1/27/2001
Subject: Re: prototypes

sigma@... wrote: > Does anyone know what specific cars were the prototypes for Flyer 652, > 653, 654 and 655? > Joe Pereira > > email: sigma@... > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Section 2--the 655--isn't that just another 650 shell? DE

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11451	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 1/27/2001
Subject: track trips

Has anyone on this list adapted an MTH TAD or a Lionel 153C track trip to work with AF track? Thanks. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11452	From: busyboy	Date: 1/27/2001
Subject: Fakes on e-Bay

Hi guys: I got this today from the guy who paid $80 something for those replacement Flyer smoke wicks that you all spotted as fakes. ___________________________________________________________ ok chris......i just today received the smoke repair kit. as you might have guessed, & even w/o being tipped off by you, the pkg appears to be a " made in the basement " offering. i am going to ask for a refund & see what happens. all components of pkg appear to be new....cardstock, advertisement, bags, contents, instructions, etc. we'll see what happens......any suggestions? dan ___________________________________________________________ I guess he's ready to act on it. Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11453	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 1/27/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer from LTI

Chris wrote: >I know I may be coming off a little ungrateful here. Not at all. We owe Lionel nothing, unless we remove an item from their inventory. We are not obligated to buy from Lionel simply because they condescend to crank out some token production. Personally, I find Lionel's offerings insulting, as would any O gauger if Lionel had the audacity to offer such a lame lineup in that gauge. >the failure scenario keeps raising its >ugly >head. 1. )Make uninteresting Flyer. 2.)It doesn't sell. 3.) >Conclusion, >there's no market for Flyer. 4.)Stop making Flyer. 5.)Get beseeching >letters for a couple of years. 6.)Yield. 7.)Make uninteresting Flyer. That, in a nutshell, is it. What's more insulting is their "Well, we'd MAKE more Flyer if you guys really CARED!" attitude. I really can't shake the nagging suspicion that Lionel thinks (or hopes) S gaugers are stupid. >Lionel keeps descending the seven steps to failure while cool new >trains are >popping out of SHS and AM. I've only got just so much money. I can't >waste it. Man, what HE said. Same here. Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11454	From: Bill Porter	Date: 1/27/2001
Subject: Test - I hate Yahoo

This is a test. wpporter@... 561 791 1781 15212 79th Court N Loxahatchee, FL 33470 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11455	From: Victor Bereskin	Date: 1/27/2001
Subject: Some more takes on the Lionel offerings

1. I looked at the Lionel catalog and was drawn more to what was not there than to what is there. There are no locomotives. There are no passenger cars. There is no track. All that is available is stuff to enhance an existing set, nothing to buld a new set. There is no effort here to grow tthe market. 2. It is entirely possible that Lionel is using original tooling for the Seaboard coaler. Manufacturers rarely discard tooling for a discontinued product; it is too expensive to recreate if another use for it should ever arise. 3. Will any of the accessories ever actually be made? Or will this be like the SD40: wait to see if there are enough advance orders. 4. From the accessories chosen this is an obvious attempt to kill MTH's foray into Gilbert reproductions. Anyone canceling an order for MTH is doing exactly what Lionel wants. If MTH has to cancel production due to lost orders and Lionel never produces due to not enough advance, there may never be any accessories. 5. I would love to see an MTH Gabe and a Lionel Gabe side by side (if there ever are two of them). It would be interesting to see if any parts appear to be identical.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11456	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 1/27/2001
Subject: AUTO TRANSPORT

Someone had said something about an auto transport in 1/64 on Tom's layout. This could be like it. Yes I am selling them, View item # 550445293 I only have two at this time and am selling on E-Bay If anyone would like one and I get enough interest I can get more and cheaper Contact me off list Hope this didn't upset anyone and will be the last offering Thank You Mike S

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11457	From: Jacques Ollivier	Date: 1/27/2001
Subject: trainpoor

If it weren't for pikemaster, I wouldn't be on this list. Some families in the '60s couldn't afford Flyer any other way (definitely my case). If it weren't for repros, my sad, clamshell-less coal loader would remain on my layout forever. I'm hungry for a working model! Jacques Proud owner of a Game Train set, a 21168, and two F-9s P.S. All you purists, send me your undesirable pikemaster "junk". Man, think of all those 5 digit boxcars I'll be getting. I'll e-mail my address to any takers and pay the postage.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11458	From: Wayne Grinnell	Date: 1/27/2001
Subject: Smoke

Hi Everyone,I have a question for you. what is the best smoke fluid? Is it all the same? Can Lionel smoke fluid be used in my Flyer's? Also I seem to remember somthing about using Ceder Scented Lamp Oil (for Kerosine table lamps) as a substitute for the "Normal" smelling smoke fluid, is this good? Will it hurt my smoke unit? I will wait till I hear from some of you more experienced Flyer Fans. Have a good One and Clear rails till then! Wayne Grinnell Pugeasy@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11459	From: John Denholm	Date: 1/28/2001
Subject: Loco convert to DC

Hi all: I have just sent a couple of my Engines down to Steve Blackburn for a conversion to DC and he told me he has a DC Can Motor conversion Kit that he can install for me! has anyone had any experience with the DC Kit in regards to a standard conversion VS the DC Kit which is Better? and cost is always accountable Factor! actually I'm leaning to a standard conversion as I have a small layout any feed-back would be appreciated as I have a some Tyme before our Steve gets the new worm -Drive in its still at the machine shop. where does the guy get tyme to run his Trains I wonder? he's sure Busy. Thanks <jde> John De jde@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11460	From: The_maurers	Date: 1/28/2001
Subject: Walthers Instant Horizons

Three of the five Instant Horizons posters I just received have noticeable creases in them where the poster wasn't rolled properly or the box was slightly crushed in shipping. Before I take these back to Hobbytown, has anyone else noticed this quality problem and, if so, is there a fix to remove the creases? I tried a warm iron with no luck. Thanks. Rich Maurer

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11461	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 1/28/2001
Subject: Test Message

Testing yahoogroups...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11462	From: Bob	Date: 1/28/2001
Subject: NOT going to make it.......

Sorry guys , but the Giants only make the Super Bowl once a decade.I'll chat with you next week ! Bob

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11463	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 1/28/2001
Subject: Re: Some more takes on the Lionel offerings

In a message dated 1/27/01 9:03:26 PM, bereskin@... writes: << 2. It is entirely possible that Lionel is using original tooling for the Seaboard coaler. Manufacturers rarely discard tooling for a discontinued product; it is too expensive to recreate if another use for it should ever arise. 3. Will any of the accessories ever actually be made? Or will this be like the SD40: wait to see if there are enough advance orders.>> My understanding from conversations with Lionel personel responsible for these offerings is that most all of the tooling for the accesories is original Gilbert -- they were missing one small part of the Gabe. The accessories will be made because they are readily useable with "O" as well as "S", and because of the competition with MTH. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11464	From: Bob	Date: 1/28/2001
Subject: Which set ?

Dear Group, I'm buliding an embankment and I need to use a trestle set. I use good old A.F. track.Which set should I use for this track, the black or orange trestle set ? Bob

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11465	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 1/28/2001
Subject: Re: Smoke

In a message dated 1/27/01 11:57:55 PM, pugeasy@... writes: << Can Lionel smoke fluid be used in my Flyer's? Also I seem to remember somthing about using Ceder Scented Lamp Oil (for Kerosine table lamps) as a substitute for the "Normal" smelling smoke fluid, is this good? >> The lower vapor point fluids from Lionel and LGB work fine in Flyer steamers. You will have to refill more often than with original Gilbert. Other experience aside, I tend to stay away from lamp oils from undetermined sources because of the potental for parafin build up in the smoke units. Hope this helps. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11466	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 1/28/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 892

Robert F. Kelly: I have some duplicates of "S" Gaugian, what ones do you need. grdobbs@... ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11467	From: Rick Evans	Date: 1/28/2001
Subject: Do-it-yourself network....

Our cable co. is now offering the "Do-it-yourself" Network. They do some model railroading projects and these can be checked out by going to DIYNET.com and check in "Hobbies",...they show pics and text of the episodes on Model railroading. Thought it was worth a look. Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11468	From: S-Trains@egroups.com	Date: 1/28/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, January 28, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11469	From: Peck	Date: 1/28/2001
Subject: Re: Lnl vs MTH

<<4. From the accessories chosen this is an obvious attempt to kill MTH's foray into Gilbert reproductions. Anyone canceling an order for MTH is doing exactly what Lionel wants. If MTH has to cancel production due to lost orders and Lionel never produces due to not enough advance, there may never be any accessories. >> I won't get into the discussion of MTH motives or Lionel motives, but........ those who are cancelling orders with their dealers for MTH items are NOT harming MTH, or sending any "message". We dealers have placed our orders for MTH long ago, based on customer response to the MTH announcements. A customer cancellation at this point just means we will have another one on the shelf and (hopefully) available to another buyer. We've already committed to taking "X" number of product. MTH won't lose any orders. I guess this is part of the price we (I) pay for not insisting on up-front deposits. I can't call my distributor at this point and say "Cancel half my order"...........he'll never treat me the same again! Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11470	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 1/28/2001
Subject: do it yourself

Some toy train stuff on that network was done by the Lionel Operating Train Society (LOTS), a very nice bunch of people, even if they can't tell the diff between two rails and three. Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11471	From: art king	Date: 1/28/2001
Subject: canceling MTH

what is wrong with you people that are canceling order's to MTH? one minute your begging for someone to make flyer accessorie's & finally mike make's a substancial financial commitment & doe's just that & than your dealer's are nice enough to take your order's without a deposit & they place an order to their distributor's that they as business's have to honor & then you run like rat's from a sinking ship to a company that if it had not been for MTH would for the mostpart still have flyer stuck in a dark closet!!!! if this happen's i don't think any one else will be to quick to listen to what you want made the next time! art king [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11472	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 1/28/2001
Subject: cancelling MTH

Art: no one IS listening to what we want. They figure to sell those accessories to O gaugers. They don't give a hoot about us. Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11473	From: Rick Evans	Date: 1/28/2001
Subject: MTH Stuff......

I would have to agree with Tom J. ...'O' people I'm sure will also buy the accessories. I'm glad that MTH is putting out some Flyer look- a-likes,...but like I said in an earliar post, I would rather have it say, "American Flyer" on it. I have canceled my order with MTH. Now if I would have, and could have, gotten my MTH Gabe by now,...I would have kept it! It is kind of a bummer that MTH took the time to put out some Flyer look-a-likes, and then Lionel finally decides to get off their butts and also put some of the same out!! Some might even like the MTH Gabes BETTER then the Lionel ones!! Whatta ya do? We gripe for things to come out,..and now we actually have "some" choices. Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11474	From: Ross	Date: 1/28/2001
Subject: MTH TAD

I have an MTH TAD under a section of Gargraves 36" S gauge track on top of cork. The TAD activates an MTH RR Crossing with flashing lights. After intial adjustment its worked perfectly. The two make a great combination. Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 16:19:27 -0500 From: jarcho@... Subject: track trips Has anyone on this list adapted an MTH TAD or a Lionel 153C track trip to work with AF track? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11475	From: Cheri221@aol.com	Date: 1/28/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 893

From: "Victor Bereskin" <bereskin@...> > . I would love to see an MTH Gabe and a Lionel Gabe side by side (if > there ever are two of them). It would be interesting to see if any parts > appear to be identical. I received this response from Scott at the Electric Train Shop in West Seattle, WA regarding the 2 Gabe's: "It appears that the Lionel Gabe, as shown in the new catalog employs  the base (tower) of the Lionel Floodlight Tower rather than the style that came on the original Flyer Gabe. The MTH Gabe is more faithful to the original." Cheri Warner Auburn, WA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11476	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/28/2001
Subject: Re: Loco convert to DC

I have a convesion can motor I bought for 20 some dollars at York last October but haven't installed yet. It has a flywheel. haven't installed it yet 'cause I dont know which of my AC Flyer engines I want to convert to DC. Screws on with 2 screws directly in place of Flyer motor using existing holes. Needs only 2 leads from tender trucks that bypass the reversing unit (or remove reverse unit). If you remove reverse unit add some weight. Smoke and headlight can be wired to the motor brush terminals. I would recommend that anyone who can solder a wire install this themselves. If it's like most can motors it will probably creep the engine at the lowest voltage on the transformer, 'cause can motors don't usually draw as much current as the Flyers which are series wound. This could cause problems with a cow on track, semaphore or other unit that stops engine while applying a small holding voltage. Engine may not totally stop. A rectified Flyer motor will still behave properly for these accessories. However, the can motor will likely run smoother. So you takes yer choice. John Denholm wrote: > > Hi all: > I have just sent a couple of my Engines down to Steve > Blackburn for a conversion to DC and he told me he has a > DC Can Motor conversion Kit that he can install for me! has > anyone had any experience with the DC Kit in regards to > a standard conversion VS the DC Kit which is Better? and > cost is always accountable Factor! actually I'm leaning > to a standard conversion as I have a small layout > any feed-back would be appreciated as I have a some Tyme > before our Steve gets the new worm -Drive in its still > at the machine shop. where does the guy get tyme to run his > Trains I wonder? he's sure Busy. Thanks <jde> John De > > jde@... > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11477	From: Eugene Steffan	Date: 1/28/2001
Subject: Gabe

I placed an order for two gabes from MTH, through two different sources. I plan on honoring both, with no regrets. Gene

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11478	From: Al Paolozzi	Date: 1/28/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 892

I saw your post regarding the S-Gaugian. You mentioned that you have some dupes. I am also looking for some old issues: Nov 75, Jan 73, Mar 73, July 73, Jan, Mar, July Sept Nov 72, May, July, Sep, Nov 71. Thanks AL amflyral@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerald R Dobbs" <grdobbs@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2001 11:59 AM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Digest Number 892 > > Robert F. Kelly: > I have some duplicates of "S" Gaugian, what ones do you need. > > grdobbs@... > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11479	From: Alan Evans	Date: 1/28/2001
Subject: Spring S Spree is coming!

S gaugers: Information is now available on the web for the 2001 Spring S Spree hosted by the Central Ohio S Gaugers in Columbus, Ohio, May 18 - 20th. Highlights include a special American Models B & O flatcar with two colorful 1938-era Krispy Kreme panel vans (a very limited run). A special tour for the gals will begin early Friday morning to the Longaberger Basket Factory in Dresden, Ohio. Cost for this event is $30.00 and reservations must be made by April 18th. Other events for this 14th annual S Spree include tables for S manufacturers and individuals in a 3000 sq ft ballroom, a separate train layout room, clinics, train races (for DC and AC units), a picnic on Saturday, and lots of door prizes. Go to www.cosg.freehomepage.com/ for the registration form to download, a picture of the flatcar and pics of our club. Come to Columbus in May!!! - Alan Evans

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11480	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 1/29/2001
Subject: Re: Yahoo conversion

Looks like Yahoo got things straightened out. After haveing a very frustrating Friday trying to convert, my egroups converted over OK on this Monday morning. Be seeing you... Rich G>

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11481	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 1/29/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 893

In a message dated 1/28/01 9:18:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, Cheri221@... writes: << I received this response from Scott at the Electric Train Shop in West Seattle, WA regarding the 2 Gabe's: "It appears that the Lionel Gabe, as shown in the new catalog employs  the base (tower) of the Lionel Floodlight Tower rather than the style that came on the original Flyer Gabe. The MTH Gabe is more faithful to the original." Cheri Warner >> I'm afraid this dealer is in error. An original Gilbert Gabe was photographed for the illustration in the new Lionel catalog. Todd Wagner of Lionel borrowed a friend's sample for the photo (He had asked to borrow mine, but we could not make arrangements due to the bad weather in December.). The Lionel Gabe will be produced using (mostly) original Gilbert tooling. The MTH vs. Lionel "stuff" aside, I suspect that owners of either will be happy with their purchase. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11482	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/29/2001
Subject: MTH & L Gabe differences

AH HA! This fits in with my noticing (by zooming in) that the stickers on the accessories read: A C Gilbert Co., New Haven, Conn! So I wonder what else will look different on the production piece? I suspect that MTH did the same thing on their pics!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11483	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 1/29/2001
Subject: Transformers Summary

Hey, so it's been nearly 3 months since I said I'd update this. Sorry. But I did gain access recently to some transformers and was able to run some tests. While this is not yet 100% complete it's the best info I have to date. Thanks again to everyone who sent in their data. Someday could add rated minimum voltages and measured mins, and manufactured date(s). Someday.... Remember it goes - - model #, rated max voltage(s), measured max voltage (rated in parens), rated watts, scraper or roller, notes. 1 1/2B, 16v, 16.3v actual, 50W, scraper, I believe some 75w units are around. 4B, 15 or 16v, 17.2 v (15v), 16.5v (16v), 100w, scraper. 8B, 15v, 16.8v actual, 100w, scraper. 12B, 15v, 16.5v actual, 250w, scrapers (2). 15B, 15v or 16v, 16.7v (15v) _____v (16v), 110w, roller. 16B, 15v or 18v, 16.9v (15v) 19v (18v), 175w or 190w, roller. 17B, 15v, 16.89v actual, 190w, roller. 18B, 15v, 19v actual, 175w or 190w, roller. 19B, 15v, 16.6v actual, 300w, roller. 30B, 15v or 18v, 19.3v (15v) 19.6v (18v), 300w, rollers (2). 22006, 16v, 16.5 v actual, 25w, scraper. 22035, 17v, 19.5v actual, 175w, _______. 22060, 18v, 19.91v actual, 175w, _______. 22090, 17v, _____v actual, 350w, _______. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11484	From: finerty, paul	Date: 1/29/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 894

>Message: 11 > Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 17:59:37 -0500 > From: jarcho@... >Subject: cancelling MTH >Art: no one IS listening to what we want. They figure to sell those >accessories to O gaugers. They don't give a hoot about us. Tom Have to respectfully disagree Tom.....The fact that these accessories might appeal to "S" gaugers is of great interest to them. The market for these products is therefore larger by some percentage, leading to the potential for higher sales. I'm sure MTH knew exactly what they were doing by offering the Flyer repro's, and that is bridging two markets with one product line. I am definitely glad they are starting to do this. I just wish Lionel would put out non-duplicates so I could get a larger set of items. Paul Finerty

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11485	From: Roy Inman	Date: 1/29/2001
Subject: Re: MTH Stuff......

Rick, I sure agree with your statement that now we actually have some choices. As anybody who read the interview with Andy Edleman in the S-Gaugain understood, MTH partly bases production decisions on feedback from model train collectors/operators. I have had personal conversations with Andy and Mike Wolf (as some of you have), and those talks would seem to confirm the S-Gaugain interview. The MTH on-line survey and the survey included with MTH products are other ways the company finds out what the heck we all want. Short of going door to door asking if any S-fans live there and would they please give opinions, how do they find out? And do we really know the timing of the decision by Lionel to produce another Gabe? Was it before or after MTH? SSS? Can't presume to tell anyone else what to do, but I am going to continue to let the various manufacturers know what I would like to see produced by whatever medium necessary: email, web, snail mail, voice phone and fax. Don't think that your singular opinion is of no consequence. Back in the days of my foolish youth (as opposed to my foolish old age), when I worked with companies and political groups that did surveys, great weight was given to those who responded: THEY WERE, for all intents and purposes, our target market, because we heard their opinions. We could not, did not, and would never spend time trying to guess what the non-respondents wanted. Enough of us harassed and pleaded with MTH to get into S-type stuff, and lo and behold... Whether Lionel's offerings are merely a response to MTH or to us makes no difference to me. Like most of you, I would like to see different products from different companies, but I presume that Lionel does not know what MTH is doing and vise-versa. So, if YOU were the manufacturer, and testing the water to see if and where the market really is, what would you choose to replicate? Surely not a $1,000 Hudson to sell maybe 50 nationwide. How about an old accessory that goes for $800-$1000 at train meets, that also can be used on S-gauge and O-gauge high rail? Do you suppose there is high demand for that accessory, which originally sold for a few dollars? If I had all the answers I would be sipping ice tea in Bermuda, but were I a toy train manufacturer I might choose the same path. Regards to all, Roy Inman ---------- >From: "Rick Evans" <comic@...> >To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [S-Trains] MTH Stuff...... >Date: Sun, Jan 28, 2001, 6:30 PM > > We gripe for things to come out

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11486	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 1/29/2001
Subject: Re: Money up front

Doug Peck: Train collectors/purchasers who are canceling their orders, are the same people that come into a train show, find an item they want, tell the seller to put it under the table, and look around trying to find a better price, if they find it they never have the decency to come back and tell the first seller to put the item on back on the table, if they can't find a second at a better price, they come back and try to get the item at a lower price. I call these people bottom feeders. They see and understand all the up front conditions, but they want to change their orders at there discretion, and are the first to cry if you have some difficulty filling the orders. Maybe you are to nice to these people. Jerry 77-11644 ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11487	From: Scott Brown	Date: 1/29/2001
Subject: MTH/Lionel Accessories

Like Doug Peck said, those of you who are cancelling your MTH order are only hurting your vendor, not MTH. It's my firm belief that Lionel only put those items in their catalogue in an attempt to hurt MTH. They are just fighting a new round of the war in"O". They don't give a hoot about us in "S". I won't be surprised when Lionel announces that there were insufficient pre-orders to warrant making Gabe, and the Coal Loader, etc. Let's hope MTH doesn't lose interest in making them. Right now, we have no guarentee that either Lionel or MTH will actually bring all these items to the shelves. Lionel usually cancels the item and MTH is way, way behind in getting the items to the stores. I say, sit back and see who delivers. Don't be so quick to jump ship. MTH made the first effort for us and may be interested in making an engine for us. What has Lionel done except a Christmas car and a overpriced, sad looking Kodachrome SF engine and caboose. Hold your ground. Wait until you see the whites of their eyes....er .... boxes before you fire your money at them. LOL Scott Brown Atlantic Coast S Gaugers Washington & Old Dominion Division

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11488	From: russcalla@aol.com	Date: 1/29/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 894

I really feel that Doug Peck's comments are worth reading a second time. S-trains do not have the product selection as three rail does today. When you know MTH has a proven history of quality products. then we should make an effort to buy his products. Lionel, on the other hand, has no interest in "S" and they are the first to admit it. We hurt ourselves by cancelling orders, because Mike at least listened to us and is trying to fill this market void. If we don't support his business, then he won't ever believe us again. After Kughn sold Lionel, there is a different management attitude which says less people will do more and we go with the maximum margin. Nothing wrong with this attitude, but we are not part of their market. I attended the Q and A with Lionel in Grand Rapids, Michigan during the National TCA convention and asked some pointed questions about the future of Flyer. Maddox's whole team said that their efforts to produce our product was like a small boil that wouldn't heal. Not enough of us to pay the price for the product, but just enough of us to whimper all the time. The only positive thing they had to say was the fact they would produce a coal loader better than MTH. There is no creative thinking for product design and only the feeling that if it says "Lionel" everyone will buy it. So maybe there is something to be said in supporting the indiviual who listens to us, does not make any rash committments, and produces a quality product. I have the greatest respect for Doug and have been a customer for over four years and the man knows what he is talking about. Please take an extra minute and read what he has to say. Best to all of you and a special thanks to Tom Jarcho for his help.--------Russ Callahan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11489	From: Robert Hannon	Date: 1/29/2001
Subject: A.C. Gilbert S-Gauge Electrical Repair SURVEY ... Continuing

Still getting stragglers, and contacts with people on this list who didn't see the original. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- For the last few years, I have experienced an increasing demand (via telephone and E-Mail) for information on diagnosing and repairing armature, field and coil problems. Questions have ranged from "What's your mailing address?" to "What reading should I get on my meter?" to "What gauge wire should I use and where can I get some?" The last two types of queries have led me to post this "survey", which consists of a four-part question: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15 January 2001 If a "book" were to be published which provided detailed diagnostic and repair specifications for most, if not all, A.C. Gilbert S-Gauge electrical component(s): 1. Would you buy it? (Yes or No) 2. Would you use it to diagnose problems? (Yes or No) 3. Would you use it to perform a repair (repair/rewind it yourself)? (Yes or No) 4. Should the book be: a. A Web-based publication b. A traditional hard-copy publication. c. Both. d. None of the above (it shouldn't be published because there is no interest in this kind of information). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Your PERSONAL opinion is important !!! Even if, ESPECIALLY IF, your answer is a resounding NO! to all the questions. Reply either on the list or off the list (whichever you prefer). Feel free to pass this questionnaire on to friends/acquaintances who are not on the list (or don't have internet access), and include their opinions in your reply. Thanks! Bob Hannon !!!REWINDING!!!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11490	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 1/29/2001
Subject: Re: MTH Stuff......

I personally am staying with the MTH order I placed because they are accessories I wanted weather or not they say AF, LIONEL, Or MTH. The dealer here in Dayton doesn't carry S-gauge anymore , so I ordered the MTH stuff through him,without a deposit. I refuse to stiff him even if he can sell them to some O-gauge guys. He has been stiffed by a number of s-gauge guys in the Dayton area. Let me tell ya! IT AIN'T RIGHT! If you ordered from a dealer and you canceled because you did not have to put a deposit down, you are just giving the dealer another reason to not like dealing with the Snobby, Cheap (how much of a discount are you going to give me), and fickle bunch of s-gaugers.Dealers can't afford to stay in businees when we stiff them because we changed our minds. If you want a Flyer version bad enough, by the MTH to put on the layout and the Flyer one to stick on your shelf to collect dust. I don't mean to make anyone mad, but your word should be good when you order something from a dealer. Thanks for letting me vent. Chris Burger [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11491	From: gino restivo	Date: 1/29/2001
Subject: Re: book not out ,

Hi , Bob my apoligies to all , bob's book is not out yet . didn't mean to mislead or side track anyone hope this note can clear up the confusion ! I have seen a lot of it ( flyer ) and would have bought that one if it was for sale , but we all know the value of Pre - Production samples , right ..... just thought I should mention it , didn't think anyone else has seen what your planning to produce , I still want 2 when their out for sale , sorry if this caused any trouble ,is it posible to post a page ? 1/2 page ? Gino , p.s. how much for a signed copy ? original Message----- From: Robert Hannon <hannon@...> To: lastman@... <lastman@...> Date: Monday, January 29, 2001 11:02 PM Subject: Thanks >Hi Gino: > >Sorry I'm late getting back to you, but I just wanted to thank you >for the plug you gave me on the list. > >Of course, that led to a burst of 5 e-mails asking if I was holding >out, and where could they get my "first book". HA! > >Anyway, hope everything's going OK. And again, thanks. > >Bob > > Shop online without a credit card http://www.rocketcash.com RocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11492	From: Larry Evoskis	Date: 1/30/2001
Subject: Tube Cages

Hello: I like running American Flyers on DC. I have several rectiformers (#16). They work perfect but are missing the tube cages. Does anyone have them for sale or know where I can purchase them?? Thanks; Larry from Illinois

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11493	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 1/30/2001
Subject: Re: MTH/Lionel Accessories

In a message dated 1/29/01 9:09:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, sbrown56@... writes: << I won't be surprised when Lionel announces that there were insufficient pre-orders to warrant making Gabe, and the Coal Loader, etc. >> Well, my local dealer already has several pre-orders for the Seaboard, including some from O-gaugers. There is enough pent up demand for nifty postwar accessories to make these issues a done deal. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11494	From: loubaldi@aol.com	Date: 1/30/2001
Subject: Rivet

On the Lionel produce American Flyer the coupler is attached to the truck with a rivet. Do any vendors stock/sell this rivet? Can a Gilbert style rivet be used as a subsitute? If so, which one? Any other recommendations or methods for securing the coupler? Thanks, Lou

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11495	From: Scott Holm	Date: 1/30/2001
Subject: Re: MTH Stuff......

--- Rick Evans <comic@...> wrote: > I would have to agree with Tom J. ...'O' people I'm sure will also > buy the accessories. I'm glad that MTH is putting out some Flyer > look- > a-likes,...but like I said in an earliar post, I would rather have it > > say, "American Flyer" on it. I have canceled my order with MTH. Now > if I would have, and could have, gotten my MTH Gabe by now,...I would > > have kept it! > > It is kind of a bummer that MTH took the time to put out some Flyer > look-a-likes, and then Lionel finally decides to get off their butts > and also put some of the same out!! > > Some might even like the MTH Gabes BETTER then the Lionel ones!! > Whatta ya do? We gripe for things to come out,..and now we actually > have "some" choices. > > Rick. > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > __________________________________________________ Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11496	From: Scott Holm	Date: 1/30/2001
Subject: Lionel/MTH

What if Lionel comes out with their Gabe before MTH, as has been stated as their intent? MTH still hasn't actually produced the coal loader that was supposed to ship last September. I fully expect them to extend the ship date again, which is currently 2/15/2001. They are almost sure to be as late with their Gabes, which are currently scheduled for shipping 4/15/2001. My guess is that their Gabe probably won't ship anytime this year. I am not going to be willing to send a payment on the original shipping date of 4/15, like I did for the coal loader last September. __________________________________________________ Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11497	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/30/2001
Subject: Re: Lionel/MTH

While I share in Scott's frustration with the coal loader, I wouldn't say that MTH hasn't made one yet. The pre-production unit was at York, and working somewhat. I suspect they found some glitch and had it re-engineered, and are probably waiting on a container from China to ship them. Don T can tell you about trying to get stuff done right, and then waiting for final delivery! Wish we had a clue as to how far along Big L's production is. . . . S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11498	From: aztecfan@yahoo.com	Date: 1/30/2001
Subject: ERTL Carnival

I am detailing the Carnival set I just found at ToyLiquaters. Found some victorian buttons at Michaels. I want to power each unit and add lights to the Merry go round. Any one done this? Looking for washers that fit inside each other so I could build a wiper. Jim Sleeth

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11499	From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade	Date: 1/30/2001
Subject: Back from MD - New Locos Arrived.

Howdy Friends We survived the trip to the train show in Maryland, and while it was a wee bit cold with all the snow on the ground, we enjoyed side trips to the B&O and PRR Museums gathering data for future projects. Naturally, the box with 2-8-0 #41 kits arrived about six hours after we left town. We are packing the orders today and hope to get them all out tomorrow. RTR versions of #41 are being built now, and will be along shortly. NOTE - There are only three Kits and one Semi-Kit left from this batch! http://www.btsrr.com/btsteam.htm 2-8-0 #42 kits will be shipping in about a week, and #43 will be about two weeks beyond that. All three of the New River Yard buildings are in stock... Freight House, MoW Shed, and Handcar Shed. More on the way! http://www.btsrr.com/btsnryp1.htm Thanks, Bill -- =============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11500	From: aztecfan@yahoo.com	Date: 1/30/2001
Subject: AM SP Observation Car

Have 1 SP Observation Car with out windows that needs a home since my AF SP set was stolden? Jim Sleet

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11501	From: Tom Stolte	Date: 1/30/2001
Subject: New Decals from Oddballs Decals - N, S, HO & O scales

605 AG Processing Inc. 50' tank car. (3-98) Painted black. Atlas tank car kit. Yellow, green and white graphics. Will letter one car. 606 Rock Island PS2CD. (6-65) Painted light grey. Walthers kit. Black graphics. 36 inch Rock Island black herald. Will letter one car. 607 DJTX, Evans double plug door boxcar. (8-82) Painted boxcar red. Atlas kit. White, blue and orange graphics. Will letter one car. 608 DMIX, Minnesota Corn Processors 50' tank car. (4-94) Atlas tank car. Painted black. Green, yellow, white and black graphics. Will letter one car. The N scale sets will letter 2 or 3 cars. S & O scale will letter 1 car. All the above decals refer to HO scale kits on the market. These will also work for other scales. Just pick a car of your choice in the other scales. Prefix numbers for N scale 60-. HO scale 87-. S scale 64-. O scale 48-. N & HO scale retail price $3.00. S & O scale retail price $6.00. These should be in your favorite hobby shop within the next month or so. If ordering direct, please include $1.75 for p&h. Up to date catalog N, HO, S & O scale, $5.00, plus $1.75 for p&h. You buy this catalog once, then every 3 months or so, send me a LSSAE for updates. Fits in a 3 ring binder. -- Tom Stolte - Oddballs Decals Decals printed on the Alps Printer N, HO, S & O Scale Model Railroad Decals 26550 227th Street; McLouth, Kansas 66054 Phone: 913-727-6649 - oddballdecal@... Web site http://www.oddballsdecals.com/ Subscribe: OddballsDecals-subscribe@egroups.com Missouri Pacific Photos Web Page: http://www.trainweb.org/mopac/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11502	From: Rick Evans	Date: 1/30/2001
Subject: Re: Venting & Stiffing.......

My local train store does not stock anything in "S",...(Whaaaaat? that surprizes you??), but I do buy paint, brushes, and order a few things from them. I used to buy the S-Gaugian magazine there, until they informed me that I was the only one buying it and they wouldn't carry it any more, so I bought a subscription. They ordered for me the MTH Figure set, and I just picked another set from them the other day. I have orderd books through them as well. I try to support them any way I can, even though they stock nothing in S. I did order MTH's Gabe through them, but I talked to them the other day about canceling my Gabe order, and they said no problem but cannot order the Lionel one because they do not deal with Lionel. So my point I guess is...where did I STIFF them?? The Gabe isn't sitting on a shelf in their store waiting for someone to buy it. And I did not cancel because the Lionel Gabe was CHEAPER! I just prefer one with AF on it. That's just me. Awhile back, at chat, I mentioned I would NEVER buy any new "S" items. ( MTH's coal loader was the big talk then). However, I did change my mind when I saw the Gabe. And "snobby"??? Ya mean like how some store owners react when ya tell 'em that you are into S gauge, and you ask if they have any???? My local train store was surviving fine before I dug out the ol' AF a couple of years back, and if I never set foot in their store again, they will continue on fine without me! They are nice people though and always enjoy going in their store. I'm trying to get them to promote some S starter sets. And if any Gabe was to sit on my shelf and collect dust,,...it wouldn't be an AF one!! Rick (I hope MTH doesn't have to close down because of me) Evans

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11504	From: bilfrazier@aol.com	Date: 1/30/2001
Subject: Re: Rectiformer tube cage

In a message dated 1/30/01 4:37:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes: > > Message: 11 > Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 08:32:14 -0600 > From: Larry Evoskis <llskis@...> > Subject: Tube Cages > > Hello: > > I like running American Flyers on DC. I have several rectiformers (#16). > They > work perfect but are missing the tube cages. Does anyone have them for sale > or > know where I can purchase them?? > > Thanks; Larry from Illinois > > > Larry: I too have been searching for original or reproduction cages for years. I've asked Doug Peck several times about them, but he was not able to get them reproduced, and hasn't come across any originals. There are probably only a very few people interested in them anyway. Good luck, Bill Frazier [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11505	From: SMITTY@tir.com	Date: 1/30/2001
Subject: MTH Stuff by Chris Burger

Well said

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11506	From: John Foley	Date: 1/30/2001
Subject: NASG Convention Hotels

NEWS FLASH!!!! As the Hotels for the NASG Steamtown 2001 National Convention are a little spread out we decided to provide Transportation between the NASG Hotels below, Steamtown and the Trolley Museums Hotels Radisson Lackawanna Hotel { Main convention hotel} Phone 570 342-8300 https://www.radisson.com/RAD/Hotel_Directory/hotelBioOne/0,2545,hotelID+%7B136%7D+hotelCode+%7BPASCRANT%7D+packageLevel+%7B3%7D+returnFlag+%7BhotelDirectory%7D+origin+%7BoriginBrowse%7D+locUni+%7B8112%7D,00.html The Clarion Phone 570 344-9811 http://looksmart.placestostay.com/script/gen_prop.asp?hotel_id=17922&n=1568 Comfort Suites Pone 570 347-1551 http://www.travelnow.com/usa/pennsylvania/hotel/scranton_133883.html Hampton Inn at Montage 570 342-7002 http://www.hampton-inn.com/HotelInfo/hampton/property.html?page=HOME&pid=AVPSC Room are going don't wait to long. John [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11507	From: John Foley	Date: 1/30/2001
Subject: Viris Warning

Hi Folks Just got am email Show white and the seven dwarfs THE REAL STORY DON'T OPEN IT. My Norton anti-Virus caught it. John Foley

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11508	From: Bill Lane	Date: 1/30/2001
Subject: John Hall Decals

Hi All, I am in need of John Hall decal set # 123/123c for PRR hoppers. Please check your decal stash. I will buy what you have. Thanks Bill

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11509	From: Tom Rolfsmeyer	Date: 1/30/2001
Subject: Pictures of the Gadsden Pacific Toy Train Operating Museum.

Hi guys and gals, I asked Paul to post two pictures of the HO layout that we are working on at the museum. I know its not S guage but that will be coming soon. I thought that you might like to see some pictures of the progress on the HO layout. I have pics of the O and G and Standard layouts that I can share also. We hope to be starting a S layout this year. This is a great buch of guys that get together each Wed. night and build and play with trains. We hope to have our grand opening around Easter. If you're down in the Tucson AZ area be sure to stop in. PS one of the pictures has me in it can you guess which one? Tom Rolfsmeyer

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11510	From: Robert Hannon	Date: 1/30/2001
Subject: A.C. Gilbert S-Gauge Electrical Repair SURVEY

----------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15 January 2001 If a "book" were to be published which provided detailed diagnostic and repair specifications for most, if not all, A.C. Gilbert S-Gauge electrical component(s): 1. Would you buy it? (Yes or No) 2. Would you use it to diagnose problems? (Yes or No) 3. Would you use it to perform a repair (repair/rewind it yourself)? (Yes or No) 4. Should the book be: a. A Web-based publication b. A traditional hard-copy publication. c. Both. d. None of the above (it shouldn't be published because there is no interest in this kind of information). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Your PERSONAL opinion is important !!! Even if, ESPECIALLY IF, your answer is a resounding NO! to all the questions. Reply either on the list or off the list (whichever you prefer). Feel free to pass this questionnaire on to friends/acquaintances who are not on the list(or don't have internet access), and include their opinions in your reply. Thanks! Bob Hannon !!!REWINDING!!!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11511	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/31/2001
Subject: Re: A.C. Gilbert S-Gauge Electrical Repair SURVEY

OK everyone, as I posted to Bob, " Vote Early & Often" Then he'll print this book and we can read it! Yes, I have a vested interest, I want to read it! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11512	From: Robert Hannon	Date: 1/31/2001
Subject: SURVEY: Two-Timers!

David! Uhhhhhh ... Not Quite! You're not just a number, David. You're an E-Mail address ... I Mean ... You're an internet entity with a recognizable character string ... I mean ... never mind! I realized last week that two posts were not enough to catch everyone. For example, 2 friends of mine have family who help out by cleaning out in-boxes of all junk mail. So, they never saw either of the posts. So, I figured if I sent the survey out once a day for a week, those of you who have to fight (should I say ... negotiate?) for internet time would have a better chance of seeing it . But then, last night, after I resubmitted the survey, I realized some of you get individual postings. Oh Great! MORE JUNK MAIL! If this gets aggravating, let me know. I won't resubmit again until Thursday (late Thursday). David Dewey wrote: > OK everyone, as I posted to Bob, " Vote Early & Often" > Then he'll print this book and we can read it! > Yes, I have a vested interest, I want to read it! > S' > David D. > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11513	From: Mark Preman	Date: 1/31/2001
Subject: American Flyer Trains For Sale-February

Hey Gilbert fans, the new list is up and it has a lot of original boxes this time. Trolley sales are strong(someone told me they are replicas of the turn of the century Birney trolley) as are book sales(my discounting policies seem to be working). Mark PS. 30% off all Gilbert HO. http://www.americanflyertrains.com ===== Mark B. Preman AmericanFlyerTrains.com __________________________________________________ Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11514	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 1/31/2001
Subject: Re: Lionel/MTH

Dear David, Containers leave every day from several ports along the China coast and Hong Kong. It takes about 14 days to get to Seattle, Long Beach (Los Angles) or Oakland. It cost about $500 less per container to send it all the way to New York via sea than to go cross country by rail but adds a week (4-5 weeks). You can even save more if you are on a container ship that stops at several ports (local?) We once were stuck on one that went from Hong Kong to Shanghai then to Seattle, then to Oakland, Long Beach, some place in Mexico, Norfolk and finally ended up in New York 6 weeks after it left Hong Kong. Don David Dewey wrote: > While I share in Scott's frustration with the coal loader, I wouldn't say > that MTH hasn't made one yet. The pre-production unit was at York, and > working somewhat. I suspect they found some glitch and had it re-engineered, > and are probably waiting on a container from China to ship them. Don T can > tell you about trying to get stuff done right, and then waiting for final > delivery! > Wish we had a clue as to how far along Big L's production is. . . . > S' > David D. S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New standard flat cars with loads are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/fcwithloads_in_stock.html http://www.showcaseline.com/fc_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11515	From: Rick Evans	Date: 1/31/2001
Subject: Decal removal....How?

I'm planning on putting some new decals on some of my Silver Bullet coaches. What is the best way to remove the old tattered decals. I just got a couple of satin-finished coaches off of ebay, not in too bad of condition but the decals are somewhat shot. The plus is that someone has already added lights to these coaches. Thanks, Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11516	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 1/31/2001
Subject: posting pictures to yahoogroups

At terry's request, here is how one posts photos to the yahoogroups file section. In this case I am posting three pictures sent to me by Terry. They are of the MTH building. 1) Log onto the yahoogroups site that you want to upload too. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Scale One must be a member of the list to log onto it. 2) Then click on 'FILES' it is in the menu at the left of your screen. it brings you to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Scale/files/ 3) Now at this screen you can "add a file' or 'create a folder'. I am going to 'create a folder' because I have 3 related files to upload. I then fill in 'name of the folder' and the 'description' of the folder. In this case I left the description blank. 4) The new folder name gets added to the list, now I just click on the folder and I see an empty folder. 5) Now I click on "add a file' I am prompted with a filename, and browse button. Click it and you can locate the file that is on your computer hard drive. When you have the file name , you can add a description and then press theb'UPLOAD' button. It sounds like a lot, but writting this note was the hard [part of it. Give it a try. __________________________________________________ Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11517	From: david s garber	Date: 1/31/2001
Subject: congratulations:

congratulations to Paul on going over 600 posts for the month .Your work is paying off. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11518	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 2/1/2001
Subject: New poll for S-Trains

Enter your vote today! Check out the new poll for the S-Trains group: If a Robert Hannon Repair "book" were to be published which provided detailed diagnostic and repair specifications for most, if not all, A.C. Gilbert S-Gauge electrical component(s): Multiple answers. o I would buy it. o I would NOT buy it. o Use it to diagnose problems. o NOT use it to diagnose problems. o Use it use it to perform a repairs o NOT use use it to perform a repairs. o Should be Web Based Publication. o Should be a traditional hard-copy publication. o I also voted Via e-mail. o I did not Vote via e-mail To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/polls Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks! Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11519	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 2/1/2001
Subject: decal removal, decals on chrome

Soak the unit, or portion of the unit with the decal on it, in a tray of luke warm water. Check after 10-15 minutes to see if it has loosened. Or let it soak overnight. Very likely you'll find it floating in the water by then. I've had great success with this water-soaking technique on water-soluable decals. I don't know if it works on dry transfers. Kind of doubt it. What has anyone else found works to remove them? Sometime ago concern was raised about using a decal setting solution when putting decals on a chromed shell. I had a 360 rechromed and used Testors Decal Set when I put new decals on it. They came out looking great - - like they were painted on. No harm to the finish. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11520	From: ALLAN V EISENHAUR	Date: 2/1/2001
Subject: MTH/Lionel Accessories

HI All Just to add my two cents about all this fuss on Lionel showing us these planned accessories, I still remember the catalog with the SD40 , and how many of you have one of those !! It's tough trying to get a paper engine to run . So like someone else said on the list, lets see the color of there boxes first. AL ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11521	From: Robert Wight	Date: 2/1/2001
Subject: Re: decal removal, decals on chrome

Ever try that cleaner/solvent that is made out of ORANGES. Wow that stuff works great and never had it harm or discolor anything YET. Bob Wight david_horn@... wrote: Soak the unit, or portion of the unit with the decal on it, in a tray of luke warm water. Check after 10-15 minutes to see if it has loosened. Or let it soak overnight. Very likely you'll find it floating in the water by then. I've had great success with this water-soaking technique on water-soluable decals. I don't know if it works on dry transfers. Kind of doubt it. What has anyone else found works to remove them? Sometime ago concern was raised about using a decal setting solution when putting decals on a chromed shell. I had a 360 rechromed and used Testors Decal Set when I put new decals on it. They came out looking great - - like they were painted on. No harm to the finish. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? - Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail Personal Address - only $35 a year! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11522	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/1/2001
Subject: First "Early Buy" Prices for Big L AF

HI all, Just got a posting from a "major mail-order L dealer" and here's what's posted as the 'early buy (until March7) prices, WOW! No. item list early buy Delivery 6-49807 752 Seaboard Coaler $ 199.95 $ 158.56 September 6-49806 23796 Sawmill $ 99.95 $ 79.26 June 6-49805 23780 Gabe $ 129.95 $ 103.05 June IF these are delivered, Wow, a Samill for under $80! That's gotta be the buy of the year, decade, etc. even if it jams! Gotta run, work calls! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11523	From: Robert Hannon	Date: 2/1/2001
Subject: Survey Automator: Thanks.

Just wanted to thank whoever did it for automating the survey. I had no idea there was such a mechanism on these lists. Bob Hannon

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11524	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 2/1/2001
Subject: 21014 vs. 21084

My brother-in-law has a CN&W Pacific in an original set box. However, the corrugated engine wrapper is printed 21014 CN&W while the loco is a #21084 CN&W. This is a limited 1957 freight set that came with a 977 action caboose. What is up with this difference in numbers? I cannot find any reference to a 21014 locomotive. Joe ===== Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,100 part lines American Models ########################## S-Helper Service Official Licensed Dealer for Gilbert Reproductions joestrainrepair@... Master Charge/Visa __________________________________________________ Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11525	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 2/1/2001
Subject: Re: Survey Automator: Thanks.

Okay Bob, I think the general consensus is that the book is needed! When will it be ready? Of course, we all want autographed copies! Get your pen out. Roger Petrella Franktown, CO Robert Hannon wrote: > Just wanted to thank whoever did it for automating the survey. > I had no idea there was such a mechanism on these lists. > > Bob Hannon > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11526	From: Rick Evans	Date: 2/1/2001
Subject: Re: 21014 vs. 21084

***(((((Joseph Haenn wrote: My brother-in-law has a CN&W Pacific in an original set box. However, the corrugated engine wrapper is printed 21014 CN&W while the loco is a #21084 CN&W. This is a limited 1957 freight set that came with a 977 action caboose. What is up with this difference in numbers? I cannot find any reference to a 21014 locomotive.)))*** Checking my books, I find no loco # 21014.....typo maybe?? Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11527	From: Dave0616@aol.com	Date: 2/1/2001
Subject: Re: 21014 vs. 21084

Gilbert used up to three different numbers for each item after converting to the 5 digit system in 1957. This was purely an accounting move. This was because an item had three different cost factors depending on how it was packaged and sold. One for the item to be sold loose, one for the item to be sold seperately in a box, and one for an item to be sold in a set. The 21084 number is the catalog number, and most likely the seperate sale boxed number. The 21014 would be the sold in a set number. There was probably not a seperate sale unboxed number for any loco. I've had 283's in 21015 wrappers, and a 293 in a 21095 wrapper. This all caused too much confusion, and the effort was not worth the trouble, so the practice was dropped after the first year or two.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11528	From: Roy Inman	Date: 2/1/2001
Subject: Removed decals.

Might try a pencil eraser. Have not tried it on newish equipment, but seems to work well on older stuff. Roy Inman

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11529	From: Rick Evans	Date: 2/1/2001
Subject: Johnny Lightning's Chevys.......

Went to Target this morning and found a new JL series. "Tri-Chevy". They include a '55, '56 and a '57 Chevy convertible. The '56 has it's rag-top up. Nice looking cars, fit right in with "American Chrome". $2.99 each. Also saw quite a few of the JL Bond series, black '57 Chevy from "Dr. No". Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11530	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 2/1/2001
Subject: Decision on Lionel Move

> BREAKING NEWS - Lionel makes move decision final Production to be transferred to new Chinese facility by summer. by Jim Schulz " if? end Application(?ContentWellWidthNoAds?) Response.Write else Application(?ContentWellWidth?) then p?> CHESTERFIELD TOWNSHIP, Mich. – Richard Maddox, president and chief operating officer of Lionel LLC announced Thursday that all manufacturing of Lionel products at its Chesterfield, Mich., factory will cease by August and be transferred to China. Maddox said the decision was based on increased costs of domestic manufacturing, increased competition and continued changes in the marketplace, and was not a reflection of the workforce of the Chesterfield manufacturing operation. "What would cost a half a million dollars to manufacture here would cost $50,000 to $75,000 overseas," Maddox said. "Wellspring (Lionel's parent company) has invested $20 million over the past three years to keep Lionel competitive in the toy train market. Twelve to 15 percent of yearly sales goes back into tooling." "This is an experienced and devoted workforce. Naturally they're feeling betrayed," said a bitter Dan McCarthy, president of UAW Local 417. "Loyalty cuts both ways. It's a loyal workforce. They didn't deserve this." McCarthy said the union presented Lionel with options that he claimed could have saved Lionel "millions of dollars, but it wasn't good enough for them."  The union's cost-savings suggestions included reducing the workforce at the Chesterfield plant, but "maintaining a core operation here." McCarthy also argued the company is "top-heavy" in management, and reductions there could also have brought savings. But he contended Lionel's plans were already set before Maddox ever brought the news of a possible closing to the union. "This has probably been in place, I imagine, since they hired Maddox to take this very course of action," McCarthy said. "They've transformed Lionel from a badly run American company to a badly run oriental company." "We spent 18 hours a day trying to figure out ways to stay in Michigan," Maddox said. "But it's just not practical to do anything in Michigan." Maddox could not say what the last item to be produced at the Michigan plant would be, but that phasing out would begin immediately. When asked what would happen to the tooling and molds located at the Michigan plant, Maddox said it is feasible to transport them overseas. Initial plans are to locate a new Chinese-owned and operated facility in China. Corporate headquarters will remain in Chesterfield. "This was never a case of management vs. labor," Maddox said. "It's simply a matter of business. We want to insure another 100 years of Lionel trains." Associate Editor Tom Chmielewski contributed to this report. </HTML> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11531	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 2/1/2001
Subject: Okie-Dokie...

So, we're trying this "file upload" thing... If it worked, a pic of a portion of the C+D System will appear at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/Di%26layout1b.jpg My wife, Diana, is sitting at the "chief cow-poke position" on the farm module. From there, one can load/unload cattle or milk cans, and rescue Bossy the Bovine from premature rendering into hamburger. Bossy's "get off track" button is also available to visitors. For obvious reasons, her "jump on track" button is accessable to Di only. Bossy also jumps out automatically when the Track Gang farther up the line is tripped. During TTOS Convention 2000, we were stuck in what must have been the darkest spot on the layout floor, hence the shadowy look of this shot. If you think the pic is dark now, you should have seen it before I cranked up the brightness. Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11532	From: Doug	Date: 2/2/2001
Subject: Slightly off topic

Does anyone know a dealer in the US that sells BEMO? I saw an add for trains and the name listed was BEMO. I have not heard of them before. Thanks in advance Doug

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11533	From: Gerry Evans	Date: 2/2/2001
Subject: Re: Okie-Dokie...

CHUCK: I never culd fined that 'ere durn cow you waz atalkin' 'bout en the pitcher. But, I did notice ya had sum swell positioning of the cammera over that blondie's sholder of the San Diego AF Association sine. Guess ya waz atryin' ta make a sociable komment 'bout her? LOL!!!!!! Gerry

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11534	From: Jerry Riechert	Date: 2/2/2001
Subject: Franklin repair questions

Boy, this ongoing maintenance and repair of my original and newly bought Flyer equipment is becoming a hobby in itself (not that I'm compaining). I've got a couple of questions about the Franklin set I recently bought: - Overall it's in pretty good shape cosmetically with the exception of the cow catcher that's seen better days. Are replacements available? - How the heck do you get smoke fluid in the smoke unit tube way down inside the stack? I tried dripping fluid down along a toothpick but I'm sure someone must have a better way. - Actually, filling the unit isn't so important right now since the smoke unit doesn't seem to work. There's no smoke and no reddish glow inside like in my 283. I assume I can take it apart and repair like any other unit per the instructions that have been posted here previously? I'll probably have more questions on this later. - Is the front truck supposed to have a conical spring on it? I haven't had a problem with the truck wheels de-railing yet but I know the weak spring on my 283 let the truck jump off whenever it wanted. - The reverse unit is sticking. I believe it has a 2 position reverse unit, right? Are these repaired basically the same way as 4 position ones? i.e.. Is spraying it with contact cleaner a reasonable first step, checking the lever arm and the hole it goes through, etc. - One last question, the moveable part of the coupler on one of the cars in the set broke off while testing the whole set. I superglued it back on but I'm not holding my breath. I assume I'll have to replace the whole coupler which is mounted to the truck which is riveted to the car floor. How do I replace it? | | +^--^+ | || | \ | \ \ ^ | this part broke off Thanks for any and all help provided. -- Jerry Riechert

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11535	From: Alan Evans	Date: 2/2/2001
Subject: S Scale cars for sale

Friends: Have 37 S scale cars for sale, American Models, Pacific Rail and S Helper All have 802's installed, scale wheels, in original boxes. Contact me off-line and I'll send an Excel file with description and prices (plus shipping). - Alan Evans

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11536	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 2/2/2001
Subject: Re: Slightly off topic

Doug wrote: > Does anyone know a dealer in the US that sells BEMO? > I saw an add for trains and the name listed was BEMO. I have not heard of > them before.Thanks in advanceDoug Doug, You'll have to find someone that specializes in European HO. BEMO is a line of HO narrow-gauge Swiss trains (kits, I believe.) I don't think any US Euro-dealer carries BEMO, but might be able to special order. Rich G.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11537	From: Rick Evans	Date: 2/2/2001
Subject: Re: Franklin repair questions

Jerry, #1 Cow catchers are available through 'Leventon Hobby Supply'---- #2 Are you using a funnel?? #3 My Franklin has no spring and I don't see one listed in the parts diagram. #4 The Franklin smoke unit doesn't seem to come apart like other units. ( at least I can't figure out how to open it!!) #5 Try TV tuner spray on the reverse unit, (usually thats all it takes). #6 replacement couplers are made and can be done without removing the whole truck, just the coupler. Short and sweet,...hope this helps. Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11538	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 2/2/2001
Subject: Franklin repair questions

Jerry: many of us find that the repair, restoration, maintenance, of our trains, is the most enjoyable and challenging part of the hobby. There is supposed to be a long brass tube extending from the smoke unit up through the smokestack. This allows you to put smoke fluid in the unit. This tube may be missing. There is no red glow on this loco, since there is no short red plastic smoke tube. The smoke unit will not smoke unless the drawbar is connected -- it carries power. The smoke unit can be repaired. Doug Peck carries a replacement assembly -- he can tell you about it. There is a solder connection from the case of the smoke unit to one terminal on the front of same. It is often found broken, because solder does not stick to white metal well. The two step reverse unit will usually respond to a spray of contact cleaner. Make sure the locking lever is in the down position. If this doesn't get it working, the frame of the unit snaps together and may have unsnapped a little in a collision. Just gently squeeze each of the four corners. The Frontiersmen are really cheap locos. There was a series of posts here some time ago regarding improvements that can be made to them. Very clever stuff too. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11539	From: Rick Evans	Date: 2/2/2001
Subject: Fwd: RE: [toytrains] LVTS Smoke fluid....Gone??

At the bottom of this post is my question to the toy train list,...the following was one response......... Don Goglio wrote: RICK, I went to the LVTS web site posted earlier and it only had a fax no. So I Faxed a note to them saying I wanted to order some smoke and included my phone number. In 1 HOUR a Mr. Stiles Called me to say he did not sell to individuals only dealers. He said he was not interested in customers on a one to one basis he did not have time for that. He did offer me a gratis bottle of smoke if I got my local hobby store to order a case of smoke from him at $70 a case. He seemed a little sensitive, like the guy you offer a buck less for his junk box at a show!! Don Ge -----Original Message----- From: Rick Evans [mailto:comic@d...] Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2001 3:51 AM To: toytrains@y... Subject: [toytrains] LVTS Smoke fluid....Gone?? From the posts I have seen On Toytrains and on S-Trains,.... ...LVTS is no longer in business. Any more info?? Rick. --- End forwarded message ---

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11540	From: Rick Evans	Date: 2/2/2001
Subject: Re: Franklin repair questions

***(((There is supposed to be a long brass tube extending from the smoke unit up through the smokestack. This allows you to put smoke fluid in the unit. This tube may be missing.)))*** Good point Tom!! That WOULD make it hard to fill,...even WITH a funnel!! I didn't think of that!! Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11541	From: david s garber	Date: 2/2/2001
Subject: LTVS smk.fluid

the other day I noticed MTH smoke fluid was made by LVTS.If they are still making it or this was old stock I do not know. If there was a response to an inquiry they are still in business but may not be marketing under there own brand? David S. Garber [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11542	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 2/2/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 898

Bob Wright: Be careful of solvents that are made/smell of ORANGES. I am a retired employee of COORS Brewing Co. who manufactures a product named Bio T, it was developed at COORS and used for cleaning areas around the plant, it is Biodegradable, Non-toxic, Non-corrosive, and is a replacement for hazardous solvents, it has the ORANGE smell, it WILL damage plastic, and discolor metals. (it will eat the chrome off a ball hitch), but is excellent to clean grease from motors. Jerry 77-11644 ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11543	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 2/2/2001
Subject: Re: Locomotive # 21014

Joseph Haenn: I have the same set without the original set box but with the cardboard loco wrapper marked 21014 with a 21084 loco. #977 caboose, #928 flat, #937 MKT box, and #925 GULF tank, I can't find a set No. for this set, could you ask your brother-in-law to look on the original set carton and e-mail me the set No. and amy intresting remarks on the set box. I will repay the favor some how. Thanks Jerry 77-11644 ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11544	From: Jeff	Date: 2/2/2001
Subject: Anyone deal with this outfit?

Anyone out there is S land have experience with Mitch's trains of Oceanside NY? I discovered them when I was doing some surfing on Ebay and stumbled onto an auction for the 1980 Rock box car Jeff T. ps. for what the had for sale in AF (a lot listed) I have never heard of the outfit.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11545	From: not2lance@yahoo.com	Date: 2/2/2001
Subject: Hudson tender truck repair

I have a Hudson tender truck that has a slightly bent sideframe and sheet metal truck. The sideframe is held on by two posts, one of which has been bent so it no longer holds. To repair it I need to loosen the peg that is still holding, straighten the metal pieces and re-attach the sideframe (and wheels) to the truck. Does anyone know how to loosen the sintered peg without damaging it so much I cannot reattach it? Does anyone have any tips for straightening the sintered metal sideframe without damaging it? The bend is not severe so I figure it should bend without breaking. Clearly it is deformable since that is how it is held on, but I suspect it is not nearly as ductile as the sheetmetal. Is there anything I should watch out for? Thanks for the help.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11546	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 2/2/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, February 4, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11547	From: Tom Stolte	Date: 2/2/2001
Subject: New Decals from Oddballs Decals - N, S, HO & O scales

609 Pacific Grain Company PS2CD covered hopper. (8-66) Car is painted white, underbody & ends black. Walthers kit with extra ribs added. Black, white & blue graphics. Set will letter one car. 610 Terminal Grain PS2CD covered hopper. (8-65) Car is painted white, underbody & ends black. Walthers kit. Red, white & black graphics. Set will letter one car. 611 Missouri Pacific blue & grey diesel hood units. (1950's) Black underframe & trucks. Blue, grey lettering. Yellow stripes. Set will letter one unit. 612 Missouri Pacific blue & grey F-7 diesel cab units. (1947) Black underframe & trucks. Blue & grey lettering. Yellow stripes, red & white MP herald. Set will letter one unit. The N scale sets will letter 2 or 3 cars. S & O scale will letter 1 car. All the above decals refer to HO scale kits on the market. These will also work for other scales. Just pick a car of your choice in the other scales. Prefix numbers for N scale 60-. HO scale 87-. S scale 64-. O scale 48-. N & HO scale retail price $3.00. S & O scale retail price $6.00. These should be in your favorite hobby shop within the next month or so. If ordering direct, please include $1.75 for p&h. Up to date catalog N, HO, S & O scale, $5.00, plus $1.75 for p&h. You buy this catalog once, then every 3 months or so, send me a LSSAE for updates. Fits in a 3 ring binder. Tom Stolte - Oddballs Decals N, HO, S & O Scale Model Railroad Decals 26550 227th Street; McLouth, Kansas 66054 Phone: 913-727-6649 - oddballdecal@... Web site http://www.oddballsdecals.com/ Subscribe: OddballsDecals-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Missouri Pacific Photos Web Page: http://www.trainweb.org/mopac/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11548	From: Ben Kronenwetter	Date: 2/2/2001
Subject: (no subject)

Please un-subscribe me until I return..Thanks

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11549	From: Rick Evans	Date: 2/2/2001
Subject: Fwd: Re: editorial or poetic license...

There's been some talk over at the Toy Train list about toy train smoke, is it really smoke...here is one statement, followed by my comment.... ***((((In fact, "smoke" is a misnomer. "Fog" is actually closer to being correct. As a toy train "smoke unit" begins to operate, the fluid is not burned but vaporized.))))**** Can you imagine the ads back in the '50's.... ..."AMERICAN FLYER.....WITH REAL 'FOG' AND CHOO-CHOO!" Rick ;-)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11550	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 2/3/2001
Subject: Re: Okie Dokie...

I seem to have confused Gerry with that rearward pic of the C+D farm module. So, a pic taken from the visitor's side has been posted. The cattle loader, milk car, and Bossy herself can be seen at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/Farmfront1.JPG As to the blonde lady, we didn't get her name. Sorry, Gerry. Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11552	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 2/3/2001
Subject: Sheesh...

Oops.. It took me awhile, but I finally figured out what Gerry was referring to in that first pic. Yes, the sign in the background does read "San Diego American Flyer Association." Yes, the lady did stand up just in time to block the "ociation" part. No, I didn't notice the implications until just now, and with the shutter delay of the digicam I used on this pic, I'm sure I could never do it again if I tried. Hooo-boy! 8^0 Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11553	From: David	Date: 2/3/2001
Subject: Re: Locomotive # 21014

This would be set number 20320 named Mountaineer Freight cataloged in 1957. Its normally listed with the 283 loco, but late runs are known to come with the 21084. The freight consist was the same for the set no matter which loco was packed with it.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11554	From: Gerry Evans	Date: 2/3/2001
Subject: Re: Sheesh...

Chuck: I'm not sure what a digicam is. If it is a still camera ala Pentax, Nikon, Brownie, etc., your timing couldn't have been better for a true "blonde" shot. If it is some kind of minicam that uses continuous tape cassettes, then you're probably on your way to "America's Funniest Home Videos." Either way, I, at least, got a hearty laugh from the original picture. Blondes is better than tiny, little cows any day of the week. Gerry

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11555	From: donabrams	Date: 2/3/2001
Subject: Smoke, Fog, now Vapor

So actually it's ". . . American Flyer . . . with real 'Vapor' and Choo-Choo!" Don ;->} There's been some talk over at the Toy Train list about toy train smoke, is it really smoke...here is one statement, followed by my comment.... ***((((In fact, "smoke" is a misnomer. "Fog" is actually closer to being correct. As a toy train "smoke unit" begins to operate, the fluid is not burned but vaporized.))))**** Can you imagine the ads back in the '50's.... ..."AMERICAN FLYER.....WITH REAL 'FOG' AND CHOO-CHOO!" Rick ;-)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11556	From: Jim Carnes	Date: 2/3/2001
Subject: Re: Smoke, Fog, now Vapor

But if you consider the engine a model, then is it "modeled smoke"? If so, is it to scale? Jim donabrams wrote: > So actually it's > > ". . . American Flyer . . . with real 'Vapor' and Choo-Choo!" > > Don ;->} > > There's been some talk over at the Toy Train list about toy train > smoke, is it really smoke...here is one statement, followed by my > comment.... > ***((((In fact, "smoke" is a misnomer. "Fog" is actually closer to > being correct. As a toy train "smoke unit" begins to operate, the > fluid is not burned but vaporized.))))**** > > Can you imagine the ads back in the '50's.... > ..."AMERICAN FLYER.....WITH REAL 'FOG' AND CHOO-CHOO!" > > Rick ;-) > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11557	From: joe messinger	Date: 2/3/2001
Subject: Manufacturing dates?

I just picked up a 21165 and in the process of cleaning and checking it out, I noticed there was no date of manufacture stamped on the inside of the boiler shell. Does anyone know just when Gilbert stopped dating the Locos? Perhaps some models were dated and not others? Other than this 21165, I don't have anything newer than 1958 so I don't have anything for reference beyond that. Just curious, I guess. Thanks, Joe Messinger _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11558	From: busyboy	Date: 2/3/2001
Subject: Re: Venting & Stiffing.......

Rick said: >I just prefer one with AF on it. That's just me. Rick: With an indifferent Lionel Corp. manufacturing some items it allegedly copied from MTH and making copies of Gilbert originals, it seems that all that is different from MTH production is the American Flyer label. Is that what you want, labels? Manufactured in 2001 by the latest incarnation of the Lionel Corp., these new accessories are not AF, Lionel, or anything we know, at least in terms of A.C. Gilbert and J.L. Cowen. When I was a kid, I was willing to get a bloody nose over whose trains were better, L or AF. Now, as an adult, I have put away childish things, such as the notion that any of this matters at all. If you are a collector, original AF means something. If you operate today, insisting that your new production items be only "genuine" Flyer is a joke you are playing on yourself. There is no such thing as new genuine Flyer. Clear on the hanger, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11559	From: Jacques Ollivier	Date: 2/3/2001
Subject: smoke fluid

Hi guys, I found that even trying to hit the brass smoke tube was a challenge. When my offspring finished with their cold medicine, the dropper (after a good cleaning) works great for hitting the tube. It even works for my tube-missing units. Jacques Look for the Hot Wheels bus. It's in the wild big trucks section. Looks like a futuristic '30s bus with a big fin. Flame stickers pull off easily. Now, how to get rid of those sidepipes?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11560	From: busyboy	Date: 2/3/2001
Subject: Re: Decal Removal

I remove old decals with tape. Make a tape loop with the sticky side out. Stick your fingers through it and daub at the decals. Start with masking tape and move up to packing tape and duct tape. Any stubborn remains can usually be flaked off with the careful prodding of a knife edge. PLEASE TAKE NOTE: I have a new e-mail address. It is busyboy@... Note there is NO hyphen between "busy" and "boy" and the service has changed. Please update your address books. My old address busy-boy@... is temporarily continuing. Until I cancel it, I will receive mail addressed either way. Thanks, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11561	From: Rick Evans	Date: 2/3/2001
Subject: new, old, oringinal, whatever.......

Chris Z. wrote.... ***(((If you are a collector, original AF means something. If you operate today, insisting that your new production items be only "genuine" Flyer is a joke you are playing on yourself. There is no such thing as new genuine Flyer.)))*** Which brings up a point that I have always wanting to comment on. Quite a few months ago, some on the list were talking about "New" Flyer, and that they wanted some. "Why can't Lionel bring out some new stuff?" "Why doesn't Lionel just sell Flyer to someone else??" "Wouldn't that be great, we could get some new Flyer!" Someone answered back with,.."You're dreaming!! Never happen!! There will never be new Flyer!! A.C.Gilbert's Flyer is dead!! It wouldn't be the same!!" Which, of course is very true. However, my point is... What IS made the same as it was 30-40-50 years ago?? I'm a Chevy man, bought my '90 Chevy pick-up new. I love my truck, (although I would like to get a new one!!), Got my power windows and cruise,..all the "bells & whistles!" BUT, the quality?? Gads, all plastic dash, all the body metal made from beer cans!! Not the quality of years past. I'm not much of a "Label" freak. I buy generic when possible. And when it comes to my Flyer collection, (as small as it is), my Flyer are "runners". No museum pieces here! But, I would like to be able to open up a catalog and see some decent "new" American Flyer! I don't see anything wrong with that! Maybe Lionel isn't producing things of quality like in the past, but at least Lionel lovers have new things coming out. And don't get me wrong, there are a lot of fine pieces of rolling stock and locos being offered by other "S" manufacturers (sp?). And I have been tempted to buy. I have bought some of the Lionel AF Christmas cars and have been happy with them. Trucks are a little different, oh well. That doesn't bother me. Old, new, re-issue, whatever, I like American Flyer,.....I feel that there are many like me that just want to see some new Flyer, and hopefully with SOME quality to it! Kinda reminds me of Hostess Ding-Dongs. I love those things! Had 'em since I was a kid. Used to peel off the top layer of thick chocolate, can't any more,..the chocolate is about as thin as the metal in my Chevy truck!! I still buy Ding-Dongs though!! Rick (run what ya like, that's the name of the game) Evans :-) P.S. ...I do have a "Marx" light tower on my layout, so I guess I do stray from Flyer.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11562	From: Jeff	Date: 2/3/2001
Subject: New flyer issues

I went into my local train seller to see if they had a new lionel catalog with the flyer issues for 2000/2001. I at least got a look at the "new" cars and the fellow at the counter pointed out to me that the UP hopper in the catalog already had a broken step. Since they seem to be making (in some cases) copies of existing items how long will I have to wait for "reissue" 24054 Santa Fe box cars.:) Then again I can probably buy the originals from some of our friendly S vendors for a lot less than what L-Flyer has listed for a price in the catalog. Jeff T.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11563	From: Velapoldi's	Date: 2/3/2001
Subject: Unsubscribe

Please unsubscribe me now. I will resubscribe when I return. Tx Rance Velapoldi

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11564	From: Jim Carnes	Date: 2/3/2001
Subject: AF 30B Transformer Variations

Does anyone have information on the variations of the AF 30B transformers? I recently got a 30B with the 18Volt markings on the back plate. When I opened it up, I noticed that the internal construction varied from the other 30Bs that I have (15Volt on the back plate). How many variations are there? Is the 15v vs 18v the key indicator for identifying the variations? Jim

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11565	From: IronHorse	Date: 2/3/2001
Subject: Re: Smoke, Fog, now Vapor

Jim Carnes wrote: > But if you consider the engine a model, then is it "modeled smoke"? If so, is it > to scale? Of courSe it is to "S"cale . It iS "S" "S"cale smoke. "S"wing and "S"way the "S" guage way. HTTP://Travel.to/cofa A "S" guage Exhibitorium. :o)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11566	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 2/3/2001
Subject: Re: Decal Removal

busyboy wrote: > I remove old decals with tape. Make a tape loop with the sticky side out. > Stick your fingers through it and daub at the decals. Start with masking > tape and move up to packing tape and duct tape. Any stubborn remains can > usually be flaked off with the careful prodding of a knife edge. > > PLEASE TAKE NOTE: > I have a new e-mail address. It is > busyboy@... > Note there is NO hyphen between "busy" and "boy" > and the service has changed. > Please update your address books. My old address > busy-boy@... is temporarily continuing. > Until I cancel it, I will receive mail addressed either way. > Thanks, > Chris Zizzo > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Oh Really?? That says a lot for them not aging right. I had always understood the best way to get them off is hit them with the same solvent that you used for the initial placement, then take them off that way. DJE

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11567	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 2/3/2001
Subject: Mountaineer Freight

Gerald R Dobbs <grdobbs@...> wrote: <<Subject: Re: Locomotive # 21014 << <<Joseph Haenn: <<I have the same set without the original set box but <<with the cardboard loco wrapper marked 21014 with a <<21084 loco, #977 caboose, #928 flat, #937 MKT box, <<and #925 GULF tank. I can't find a set No. for this <<set, could you ask your brother-in-law to look on <<the original set carton and e-mail me the set No. <<and any intresting remarks on the set box. I will <<repay the favor some how. << << Thanks Jerry 77-11644 Jerry, The set is number 20320, the Mountaineer Freight. It was made in two versions with the cars you listed, one with a 283 and the other with a 21084. Set value with the 21084 is $450 in excellent condition plus a premium for better condition and/or boxes. Joe ===== Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,100 part lines American Models ########################## S-Helper Service Official Licensed Dealer for Gilbert Reproductions joestrainrepair@... Master Charge/Visa __________________________________________________ Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11568	From: castironv8@aol.com	Date: 2/3/2001
Subject: S-Trains] new, old, oringinal, whatever

Re: Rick Evans' post on having "New American Flyer" I am inclined to agree. I am absolutely tickled that both Lionel and MTH have something to offer us, even though they are just copies or just knock-offs of the originals. I secretly hope that it was MTH that shamed Lionel into doing something. Lionel has had the rights to Flyer for years, but couldn't care less. I have often written Lionel and have quizzed their representatives at meets about the future of Flyer. In a nutshell, Lionel's answer is "Daaaa......I DON'T KNOW ?" If Lionel is so strapped for cash that they have to terminate manufacturing in the US, Why don't they sell American Flyer to some interested party, like MTH??? Best Regards, Curtis Dorwart [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11569	From: claimsboss@aol.com	Date: 2/3/2001
Subject: please delete me

Please delete me until the Merrimack Souhegan and Southern New Hampshire reorganization is complete, and renamed to Cajun Yankee and Southern. Good Bye New Hampshire, Hello Denham Springs, LA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11570	From: Robert Wight	Date: 2/3/2001
Subject: Re: Smoke, Fog, now Vapor

"S" Scale Vapor! Man it has been a long winter. IronHorse <cofa@...> wrote: Jim Carnes wrote: > But if you consider the engine a model, then is it "modeled smoke"? If so, is it > to scale? Of courSe it is to "S"cale . It iS "S" "S"cale smoke. "S"wing and "S"way the "S" guage way. HTTP://Travel.to/cofa A "S" guage Exhibitorium. :o) S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? - Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail Personal Address - only $35 a year! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11571	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 2/3/2001
Subject: Okayyy...

Regarding the pic that was referred to in a previous post,(Okie- dokie...) a slight "anomaly" was discovered. The pic has been deleted. A "corrected" version can be seen at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/C%2BD1.JPG Apologies to anyone offended by the previous pic. I gotta get some glasses. Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11572	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/3/2001
Subject: Re: Okayyy...

Chuck, Well, I must need glasses to, it took someone's posting that explained it before I knew what was up. I thought it was funny! The only thing I noticed the first time was the blurry gal, but the trains were sharp, so who cared? (Hmm priorities, I guess!) I'm the guy who when asked, "Did you notice the topless dancers at the convention?" I'd probably say, "Huh? No, but what about that great Cab-Forward!" Gee, no wonder I miss out on stuff! "Don't look Ethel!!" (remember the song, "The Streak" Uh oh, I'm showing my age. . . .) Time to catch some Zzzs! Don't forget, Sunday--S-Chat!!! Be there, or be square! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11573	From: busyboy	Date: 2/4/2001
Subject: Re: Okayyy...

Chuck F. wrote: >Regarding the pic that was referred to in a previous post,(Okie- >dokie...) a slight "anomaly" was discovered. The pic has been >deleted. A "corrected" version can be seen at: >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/C%2BD1.JPG >Apologies to anyone offended by the previous pic. I gotta get some >glasses. Chuck: I don't think that anyone was offended. I don't think you intended any commentary on women as cows or as pieces of ass . . . ociation with anything. I laughed when the anomaly was pointed out. I am disheartened that you found the need to self censor, to clean up what occurred naturally and make it all plain homogenized vanilla so that no possible offense might occur. God forbid that adults might get a chuckle out of a ribald interpretation. It is disheartening indeed and now, I am offended, truly. Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11574	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 2/4/2001
Subject: Okayyy

Geez, you guys must be bored. Go play with your trains! Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11575	From: Robert Wight	Date: 2/4/2001
Subject: Email address

Steve Blackburn; I missed placed your email address. Could you send it to me. Thanks. --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? - Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail Personal Address - only $35 a year! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11576	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 2/4/2001
Subject: FREE RAIL

ANYONE wanting approx 2lbs of AF rail NO TIES Contact me off list I will mail to you and you can send me back the postage.......Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11577	From: Rick Evans	Date: 2/4/2001
Subject: #779 oil drum loader........

Just received my re-pro drums from Leventon's and I'm going to try to get my loader working. I bench tested it in the past, hooking it up according to the diagram on page 49 of Tom barker's book. It Didn't do anything. I don't remember hearing a buzz or nuttin'! I will try again. I need some tips on what to look for and to do ifn' my loader still doesn't load!! Thanks!! Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11578	From: David	Date: 2/4/2001
Subject: Re: #779 oil drum loader........

Rick, I had a LN Oil Drum Loader in the box that I finally got around to testing. It just sat there. The Oil Drum loader has a nice quiet induction motor in it which makes AF accesories so nice as they run nice and quiet. When hung up they will typically not make any buzzing or humming noises. In my case I turned the unit over, and undid the screws holding on the house. Turning the unit on its base again, take the cover off of the gear box. Scrape out any hardened grease and gunk. Flush with a little WD-40, and swab out dry with q-tips or a rag. You will need to spin the armature by hand to loosen the gunk in the bearings. Apply some power and see if the unit starts, if not try proding the armature until it starts. (I use a toothpick to nudge it.) It will most likely start slow. As it starts though, put a little WD-40 in the bearings to get it loosened. Eventually the motor will loosen up and run freely. Once normal operation is optained, swab out any excess WD-40, and apply a drop of oil to all the bearings, and swab a little light grease to the worm gears. Once this is completed, replace the gear cover, and house, and your all set to go.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11579	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 2/4/2001
Subject: FREE RAIL GONE

Thanks the Rail Is gone........Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11580	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 2/4/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, February 4, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11581	From: mlmarmer@msn.com	Date: 2/4/2001
Subject: Reverse Unit Problem

I am hoping that someone could help me understand why on a 21130 AF Hudson with push pins to the tender, that I have, it will only run (wheels turning)when you push in the reverse mechanism very so slightly, otherwise it will just sit on the track like it is in neutral with electricity running through it, headlight on and smoke coming out of the unit. Everything looks fine otherwise and the engine will run very well when the reverse has some inward pressure on it. Is there anything I can do to fix this problem and I have no experience in engine repairs or should I take to someone who knows what they are doing. Thanks for any advice I receive, Mike Marmer Germantown, MD

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11582	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 2/4/2001
Subject: New file uploaded to S-Trains

Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the S-Trains group. File : /Amercian Flyer Room.jpg Uploaded by : mlmarmer@... Description : Train Room You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/Amercian+Flyer+Room.jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, mlmarmer@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11583	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 2/4/2001
Subject: New file uploaded to S-Trains

Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the S-Trains group. File : /American Flyer middle wall.jpg Uploaded by : mlmarmer@... Description : Train Room Wall Close-up You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/American+Flyer+middle+wall.jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, mlmarmer@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11584	From: Ted Weiler	Date: 2/4/2001
Subject: Making a consolidation out of the Flyer 0-8-0

Has anyone on the list converted The 342 to a consolidation? I've seen them in pictures, but have not seen a description of how it was done. Thanks!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11585	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 2/4/2001
Subject: reverse unit problem

You could try spraying some TV tuner contact cleaner (Radio Shack) into the reverse unit. Also, the unit has a plastic frame that snaps together. One corner may have unsnapped. Gently squeeze each corner of the plastic reverse unit frame. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11586	From: Jacques Ollivier	Date: 2/4/2001
Subject: Videos

Hi guys, Returned from the TCA meet trainless but didn't not empty handed. I was talking to a gentleman from Portland, OR. He sold me two videos dealing with American Flyer. They were labeled 6 hours and 5 hours. He said they were correspondence from a Flyer specialist named R.S. Carnes. The TCA dealer said he and Carnes wrote the first American Flyer value list. Supposedly everything American Flyer ever made in S gauge is in the videos. Have you ever seen a video of a 333 Northern? I have. I also got some audio tapes where Carnes talks about a prototype Mystic Station with a Sam Semaphore Man and an animated ticket seller and buyer. I sure hope that's on the tape. On the video Carnes talks about chatting with A.C. Gilbert about different engines. Does anyone have any background on R.S. Carnes? He was a Flyer repairman and seems to know what he's talking about as he narrates the videos. Well, I better get back to the videos. Jacques

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11587	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 2/4/2001
Subject: Re: Making a consolidation out of the Flyer 0-8-0

I converted a 5 digit 21145 0-8-0 by buying a K5 pilot and cutting it to fit, then adding a home built 2 wheel lead truck. Ran fine. All done using existing screw holes so no cutting was done on 21145 parts. Only the K5 pilot casting I bought was chopped. I didn't spoil the 21145 and kept the original pilot and pilot handrails in a jar. Later I converted it back to an 0-8-0 with no ill effects. If I want the 2-8-0 baack I can convert in 5 minutes with 2-8-0 parts now saved in a jar. I don't have a picture but it was relatively simple. Ted Weiler wrote: > > Has anyone on the list converted The 342 to a consolidation? I've seen them > in pictures, but have not seen a description of how it was done. > > Thanks! > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11588	From: gino restivo	Date: 2/4/2001
Subject: re ; test mail

just a test ,... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11589	From: Rick Evans	Date: 2/4/2001
Subject: What is it...??

Can someone please explain to me what the heck is that Flyer item in the lower left hand corner of page 107 of the March issue of CTT???? Thanks, Rick (That's a tight curve) Evans

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11590	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 2/5/2001
Subject: New file uploaded to S-Trains

Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the S-Trains group. File : /rev_demo.jpg Uploaded by : yorke@... Description : CTT Page 107 "What is it?" You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/rev_demo.jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, yorke@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11591	From: busyboy	Date: 2/5/2001
Subject: What is it...??

Rick (That's a tight curve) Evans says: >Can someone please explain to me what the heck is that Flyer item in >the lower left hand corner of page 107 of the March issue of CTT???? A device to demonstrate the electrical workings of a reverse loop? Chris Z.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11592	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 2/5/2001
Subject: Re: What is it...??

Rick, If we are looking at the same picture that was posted to the files, the item in far lower left is a single switch controller. Above and to the right of it (green item) is a block control. Made using the base casting from the 761? semaphore. Not sure how anything except the handcar is going to get around that tight curve. Roger Petrella Franktown, CO Rick Evans wrote: > Can someone please explain to me what the heck is that Flyer item in > the lower left hand corner of page 107 of the March issue of CTT???? > > Thanks, > Rick (That's a tight curve) Evans > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11593	From: busyboy	Date: 2/5/2001
Subject: Your notice on uploads

Mike: The links on your uploads don't work, probably because of the plus signs. I went to the files and saw your impressive pics. Nice stuff. You might consider putting UV shields on those fluorescent lights. They will fade the colors on your trains over time without protection. The shields come as a cellophane-like material and can simply be laid into the white frosted covers of the lights where gravity will hold them in place. We did a bunch of posts on this a while back. Search the archives under "ultraviolet" and "fluorescent". Thanks, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11594	From: joe messinger	Date: 2/5/2001
Subject: pg. 107- TT Mag.

Rick Evans ask, "What's that A.F. item on page 107 of the March issue of Toy Trains Magazine?" Rick, I think that's a track loop section for the rare " Gabe the Unicycle Guy". Tricky accessory to operate. Required allot of "forward/reverse" action on the controls to keep him balanced. . . Oh well, if that ain't right, then maybe it could be some sort of display to demonstrate how to hook up accessories like the switch and reverse loop? That's the best I can do! Joe M. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11595	From: Scott Holm	Date: 2/5/2001
Subject: Smoke fluid dropper bottles

A great way to dispense smoke fluid is with the victorian dropper bottles available from American Science and Surplus. Here is the URL to their catalog page that describes them: http://www.sciplus.com/category.cfm?subsection=7&sction=3&category=80 I transfer the lamp oil to these bottles and use the dropper to dispense the fluid. American Science and Surplus has all kinds of interesting stuff. They even have a set of 4 - 1/64 scale antique Pepsi trucks for 7.50. __________________________________________________ Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11596	From: busyboy	Date: 2/5/2001
Subject: Fluorescent lighting

Never mind finding the old posts on fluorescent lighting. They were on the TCA mail list and I just found them. Here is a re-post of one I did that has all the research into UV shields. _____________________________________________________________________ The UV from fluorescents will tan your skin, just like the sun. You don't leave your trains out in daylight unless you're a scaler trying out a natural weathering technique. The element of fluorescent light that fades paint is the ultra-violet band of the spectrum. In sunlight, this is the part which causes tanning, sunburn, skin cancer and fading of all types of dyes. The simple fix is to filter the ultra-violet wavelength. It is simpler than you might imagine. I work in the movie industry where we use arc lights and HMI discharge lamps which emit powerful ultra-violet light. We stretch sheets of polyester film on frames which are placed in front of lighting units for a variety of purposes including color lighting effects, correction of color balance, diffusion of harsh light and ultra-violet reduction. That same film, called gel, is available to you. There are four major brand names: Lee, Bogen, Great American Market (GAM) and Rosco. Lee and Bogen use the same gel, numbered 226. This gel allows 91.5% of light to be transmitted with less than 50% UV transmission at 410 nanometers (the UV wavelength range). Good, but not great. GAM's #1510 UV shield allows a 20% UV transmission (80% blocked) at 400 nanometers, with practically 0% UV transmission below that. 90% of light is transmitted. Much better! Rosco's #3114 Tough UV Filter transmits 93% of light while absorbing 90% of UV below 390 nm. Pretty good. All four gels are essentially clear plastic sheet material. They come on rolls 24" and 48" wide like Christmas wrapping paper and at various lengths. You cut them to size with a scissor or razor blade and attach them to the lights in whatever method is most convenient. If your fluoros are drop ceiling style with a cover of some kind, open the cover and lay the gel on the inside. If the lights are open bulbs, you could wrap each bulb with a "tube" of the gel and tape it with clear Scotch tape. Whatever works. I don't know how many lights you have to gel. If it's a whole roomful, the roll's price (approximately 130 dollars) will be worth it. If it's only one or two lights, the expense might seem exhorbitant. The gels are available in sheets for about $5.50 each. Even so, the toll is cheap compared to the damage the lights will cause. The GAM or the Rosco are the products of choice. Gam comes in 24" w x 50' L and 48" w x 25' L(same square footage) for $135. 24" x 20" sheets are $5.35 each. Rosco comes in 24" w x 25' L for $79 and 48" w x 25' L for $130.50. 24" x 20" sheets are $5.65 each. Find them at: Barbizon Lighting 456 West 55th. Street New York, NY 10019 1(212)586-1620 or Bash/Production Arts (quoted prices above) West End Ave. N. Bergen, N.J. 1(201)440-9224 If you kept all your mint trains put away, in their boxes, in a cool dry place, you wouldn't need to worry about fluorescent lights, wear and tear, repainting or what to do with all the boxes. Of course, if you DO get to that level in the game, you don't post here anymore. You'll find all your contemporaries posting at alt.flyfishing.Montana. Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11597	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 2/5/2001
Subject: what is it?

That is a demonstration of the A.F. #695 Reverse Loop Relay. The green thingy is the #695. The relay switches the polarity of the outer rail of a reverse loop. The #720A switch reverses the polarity of the inner rail. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11598	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 2/5/2001
Subject: sideframe repairs

I've corrected and reset sideframes by: 1) Gently pry sideframe off truck. Try to leave as much stud material as possible. Reshape or straighten sideframe as needed with blocks of wood, and small hammer (maleable, but breakable material). 2) Hand test sideframe fit onto sheet metal truck frame. Once satisfied, clean back of sideframe and truck surfaces with alcohol. Apply coating of gel Future Glue or slow set gel ACC to sideframe surfaces that will contact the truck. 3) Set sideframe to truck. 4) With a standard size popsicle stick (not a coffee mixing stick), protect the outside surface of the sideframe, take regular size ViseGrip pliers and clamp down tightly on each stud. You'll see it crush whatever stud material was left, and indent it with the cross-check pattern of the plier's jaws. Check for good perpendicular-to- truck positioning of the sideframe. 5) Allow to dry overnight. 6) Run your trains, its good for your health. PS If a sideframe is simply loose, I've tighened them on ACG steamer tenders and diesels by re-crushing their studs. Use popsicle sticks and regular size ViseGrips. I've had no external scratching or paint damage. In fact, the curved end of a p-stick in fact fits nicely into part of the sideframe casting of PA's. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11599	From: Rick Evans	Date: 2/5/2001
Subject: Re: what is it?

jarcho@r... wrote: **(((That is a demonstration of the A.F. #695 Reverse Loop Relay. The green thingy is the #695. The relay switches the polarity of the outer rail of a reverse loop. The #720A switch reverses the polarity of the inner rail.)))** Would this be an item from the factory or a dealer set up, or....?? Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11600	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 2/5/2001
Subject: 21130 rev unit

If Tom J's tips don't solve the problem, then you might have to remove the unit and disassemble it to ensure the cam action and cam-to-finger contact points are all OK. Follow Tom's instructions in the article (S-Gaugian Roundhouse) he wrote awhile back on doing that. I did and mine works very well now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11601	From: Rick Evans	Date: 2/5/2001
Subject: Re: New file uploaded to S-Trains

How's it come when I click on the following, all I get is a..... "OOPS" ? You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S- Trains/files/American+Flyer+middle+wall.jpg Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11602	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 2/5/2001
Subject: videos

Jacques: This is some fascinating stuff. Please supply a lot more details. I think this is a video a lot of us would like to get a copy of. Dick Carnes, as i recall, was involved with the S Gauge Herald. Could be wrong about that. Is he in the TCA book? Tom J

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11603	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 2/5/2001
Subject: What is it...??

Why Rick, that looks like a reverse loop for a Flyer 0-2-0 locomotive, made up using a Flyer 720A switch, a Lionel switch controller, a Flyer 695 Reverse Loop Relay, several lengths of Flyer 4" radius curved track, and powered by a Flyer # 1-1/2 transformer. Roger Delthony

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11604	From: David	Date: 2/5/2001
Subject: Re: What is it...??

If we all look in our hardback Greenbergs American Flyer books. Look for any item, particularly locos and stuff, that are marked NRS. If its not marked "Confirmation Requested", its marked "R. Carnes Collection" almost every time. Items such as the 311 K5, 305 Atlantic etc. This guy has some RARE stuff! I believe I read somewhere that he bought all of the odd samples at the Gilbert factory auction..... I cannot recall if it was in a TCA article or not. It would be a good thing I would think if someone could to an extensive inverview with him like they did Maury Romer.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11605	From: wayne broadhead	Date: 2/5/2001
Subject: Re: What is it...??

Also....if there is anyway...I would sure like to see that video tape you have get copied. I am sure there are many of us on this list that would like to buy a copy. It would be fantastic to see this tape, and the interview with Carnes, and his collection. Please think about this and try to offer it to us as an item we can order. thanks, Wayne Broadhead David wrote: > > If we all look in our hardback Greenbergs American Flyer books. Look > for any item, particularly locos and stuff, that are marked NRS. If > its not marked "Confirmation Requested", its marked "R. Carnes > Collection" almost every time. Items such as the 311 K5, 305 Atlantic > etc. This guy has some RARE stuff! I believe I read somewhere that he > bought all of the odd samples at the Gilbert factory auction..... I > cannot recall if it was in a TCA article or not. It would be a good > thing I would think if someone could to an extensive inverview with > him like they did Maury Romer. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11606	From: Peck	Date: 2/5/2001
Subject: Re: Lnl AF

<<Just to add my two cents about all this fuss on Lionel showing us these planned accessories, I still remember the catalog with the SD40 , and how many of you have one of those !! It's tough trying to get a paper engine to run . So like someone else said on the list, lets see the color of there boxes first. >> With all due respect (and I know Al...the above writer....very well, so I know he won't be offended by this comment from me)........if we all wait to see the color of their boxes first, then we WON'T see ANY new products produced because there will be no advance orders to indicate sufficient interest! As an AF parts dealer, I wouldn't go out and spend hundreds or thousands of dollars to produce a new part unless I knew there was a demand for it...... should I be expect that "if I make the part, the mobs will flock to buy it because it now exists"? I fully understand the well-founded and well-earned skepticism about Lionel's AF intentions (I share it), but despite that, I see no reason not to indicate an interest by placing an advance order with your dealer for a product you would buy.........especially if your chosen dealer doesn't even request a deposit from you!!! Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11607	From: Peck	Date: 2/5/2001
Subject: Re: fRANKLIN REPAIR

<<- Overall it's in pretty good shape cosmetically with the exception of the cow catcher that's seen better days. Are replacements available?---YES - How the heck do you get smoke fluid in the smoke unit tube way down inside the stack?----USE A GILBERT SMOKE FUNNEL.........AVAILABLE. - Actually, filling the unit isn't so important right now since the smoke unit doesn't seem to work. There's no smoke and no reddish glow inside like in my 283.-------IF IT'S DRY, IT WON'T SMOKE ANYWAY.........IN FACT, YOU MIGHT BURN IT OUT, RUNNING IT DRY. NO RED GLOW BECAUSE THE FRANKLIN DOESN'T USE A RED SMOKESTACK.......IT HAS A BRASS ONE (OR IT SHOULD). - Is the front truck supposed to have a conical spring on it? I haven't had a problem with the truck wheels de-railing yet but I know the weak spring on my 283 let the truck jump off whenever it wanted. I ALWAYS INSTALL THESE ON ALL REPAIR JOBS, EVEN ON ENGINES LIKE THE FRANKLIN THAT NEVER HAD ONE ORIGINALLY. - The reverse unit is sticking. I believe it has a 2 position reverse unit, right? Are these repaired basically the same way as 4 position ones? i.e.. Is spraying it with contact cleaner a reasonable first step, checking the lever arm and the hole it goes through, etc.----PROBABLY DIRTY OR OILY.........USE SPRAY CLEANER FIRST. THESE ARE A BIT MORE DELICATE TO DISASSEMBLE AND REASSEMBLE. USE CARE. - One last question, the moveable part of the coupler on one of the cars in the set broke off while testing the whole set. I superglued it back on but I'm not holding my breath. I assume I'll have to replace the whole coupler which is mounted to the truck which is riveted to the car floor. How do I replace it? >> IF YOU'RE REFERRING THE THE 1-PIECE PIKEMASTER COUPLER TRUCKS, YOU DO HAVE TO REPLACE THE ENTIRE TRUCK, USING A NEW EYELET.----------AVAILABLE-----------SO IS THE PROPER TOOL TO "SET" THESE EYELETS. Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11608	From: Peck	Date: 2/5/2001
Subject: Re: Franklin repair #2

<< #4 The Franklin smoke unit doesn't seem to come apart like other units. ( at least I can't figure out how to open it!!) >> You have to file off the peened edge around the front end of the smoke chamber. The disc on the front will then pull out. It has a small solid resistor-like smoke element soldered to it. We carry replacement disk inserts (along with all the other parts that Jerry inquired about). You just insert the new disk, and epoxy it in place. It's actually a simpler and quicker repair than a "normal" smoke unit! Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11609	From: Peck	Date: 2/5/2001
Subject: Re: LVTS

<<I went to the LVTS web site posted earlier and it only had a fax no. So I Faxed a note to them saying I wanted to order some smoke and included my phone number. In 1 HOUR a Mr. Stiles Called me to say he did not sell to individuals only dealers. He said he was not interested in customers on a one to one basis he did not have time for that. He did offer me a gratis bottle of smoke if I got my local hobby store to order a case of smoke from him at $70 a case. >> Unfortunately, he won't supply either the dealers or even his own DISTRIBUTORS (we were one of several) either! We had to give up on LVTS Live-Steam fluid, and change brands. It had previously been our preferred fluid, but you can't sell what you can't buy! Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11610	From: Peck	Date: 2/5/2001
Subject: Re: rvs unit

<<I am hoping that someone could help me understand why on a 21130 AF Hudson with push pins to the tender, that I have, it will only run (wheels turning)when you push in the reverse mechanism very so slightly, otherwise it will just sit on the track like it is in neutral with electricity running through it, headlight on and smoke coming out of the unit. Everything looks fine otherwise and the engine will run very well when the reverse has some inward pressure on it. >> Here's my bet: When the black plastic lower portion of the unit snaps into the upper metal portion, there are four small black tabs that snap into the four small holes in the sides of the metal. There is a small copper tab from the 'lectrical innards" that has to protrude through one of those holes and be held firmly in place by the black tab.....ti creates an electrical ground. If that tab is not in place, or not making contact with the metal top, there is no ground. By pushing on the unit, you are probably making that contact. On occasion, I have even had to resort to a drop of solder between that tab and the metal frame of the e-unit. I know all this may be hard to envision, but if you look at the unit, you will probably see what I mean. Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11611	From: Peck	Date: 2/5/2001
Subject: Re: Carnes

There are actually more than 2 Reggie Carnes tapes. I have a full set of them (about 6, if I recall), plus about 10 audio tapes as well. Carnes was from NY, and had a huge AF "collection" including MANY rare items. The original Greenberg AF book listed many of them, and showed many photos of these rare items. However, when his collection went up for auction, there was a great deal of controversy about the authenticity of these "rare items". There was a great deal of feeling that there was deception and fakes involved. As a result, Greenberg removed ALL references to Carnes' items from the next edition, and it has never reappeared. Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11612	From: Jeff	Date: 2/5/2001
Subject: thanks for the info everyone

hello all, Thanks for the info on Marty's Trains of Oceanside NY, which I called Mitch's. I can remember things like the history of the Studebaker Champion engine or the particulars of the USS Lexington (CV2) and a whole lot about American Flyer but I cannot remember names at times. I'm too young for senior moments:) Jeff T.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11613	From: Ktrdd@AOL.com	Date: 2/5/2001
Subject: 293 pilot wheel derails?

Hi, Someone from Penna wrote off-list to me last week regarding my comments on this engine. Sorry, someone in household deleted message B-4 I got around to it, please write back/need address ?? John R

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11614	From: Ktrdd@AOL.com	Date: 2/5/2001
Subject: Re: What is it...??

Hi, Looks like a 4-8-4 Northern could handle this turn easily (minus the 8 that is). That is a Flyer single controller shown because I have one. Got it from Stout months ago. Are these common? I never saw one before I happened upon "it" ---so I wonder? John R

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11615	From: Nick and Becky Colleran	Date: 2/5/2001
Subject: 779 and Reggie Carnes & 333's

My 779 tha t I purchased in 1956 developed cold solder joints. Try putting current directly to the connecting wires under the terminals. >Message: 5 > Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 18:20:23 -0000 > From: "Rick Evans" <comic@...> >Subject: #779 oil drum loader........ > >Just received my re-pro drums from Leventon's and I'm going to try to >get my loader working. I bench tested it in the past, hooking it up >according to the diagram on page 49 of Tom barker's book. It Didn't >do anything. I don't remember hearing a buzz or nuttin'! > >I will try again. I need some tips on what to look for and to do >ifn' my loader still doesn't load!! > >Thanks!! > >Rick. Reggie Carnes layout is featured in the March 1976 issue of S Gaugian. He is also interviewed in the Collector, among other things talking about the cancellation of the tender motor whistle (314AW) resulting from repair headaches, not Lionel patent according to his conversation with A C Gilbert at lunch. I have heard he had to sell his collection to pay for his wife's illness and also that some ot the "one of a kinds" were made special for him by factory folks, possibly without his knowledge. The layout really was impressive. It was housed in a separate building in New York I believe. BTW - I have a 333 but it was made at the Richmond (VA) Hall of Science (my house). It goes nicely with my K292! (Shown on our local clubs web site.) >________________________________________________________________________ > >Message: 14 > Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 18:47:06 -0800 > From: Jacques Ollivier <ollivier@...> >Subject: Videos > >Hi guys, > >Returned from the TCA meet trainless but didn't not empty handed. I was >talking to a gentleman from Portland, OR. He sold me two videos dealing >with American Flyer. They were labeled 6 hours and 5 hours. He said >they were correspondence from a Flyer specialist named R.S. Carnes. The >TCA dealer said he and Carnes wrote the first American Flyer value list. > >Supposedly everything American Flyer ever made in S gauge is in the >videos. Have you ever seen a video of a 333 Northern? I have. I also >got some audio tapes where Carnes talks about a prototype Mystic Station >with a Sam Semaphore Man and an animated ticket seller and buyer. I >sure hope that's on the tape. > >On the video Carnes talks about chatting with A.C. Gilbert about >different engines. Does anyone have any background on R.S. Carnes? He >was a Flyer repairman and seems to know what he's talking about as he >narrates the videos. > >Well, I better get back to the videos. > >Jacques >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11616	From: Rogerw53@aol.com	Date: 2/5/2001
Subject: Mountaineer Freight set

Have seen a couple posts lately about sets with a 21084 engine wrapped in cardboard numbered 21014. According to Bob Tufts "The Almost Complete Guide to American Flyer S Gauge Sets", that would be the Mountaineer Freight (set #20320) set from 1957. In addition to the 21084, it came with a 925, 928, 937, and 977. A variation of the same set had the 283 engine in it instead of the 21084. Bob also lists a set #20326 (unnamed) from 1957 which has the 21084 engine, the 928 and 977 cars like in the 20320 set, but replaces the three-digit 925 and 937 cars with the 24308 and 24015 respectively. Hope this helps solve that mystery.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11617	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/5/2001
Subject: Re: Carnes

I'm glad Doug posted this, as this is what I was told by a "big time" AF collector (who shall remain nameless, he doesn't like anyone thinking he's as addicted as he is!), but I wasn't 100% sure on the name, and I wanted to warn you all diplomatically. As I understand it, there was great suspicion that the rare stuff was made up of bits and pieces that MAYBE were found at the factory. Just because you find a shell marked 311, doesn't mean ANY locomotives were assembled with that number! Gotta run, another #$!#! meeting to go to! --When do I get time to play with my trains??? S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11618	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/5/2001
Subject: Re: What is it...??

It's actually an AF single switch controller, not a common piece. S' David D. PS not common because they were mainly used on the "Hump yard" accessory (the switch and some trestle pieces, maybe some track, I don't remember)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11619	From: Jerry Riechert	Date: 2/5/2001
Subject: Re: Franklin Repair

I want to thank everyone that replied to my questions on spiffing up the old Franklin. I thought I'd pass on what I've done and fixed so far. Less than pristine cowcatcher: will order a replacement. Filling the smoke unit: EVERYONE said get a smoke funnel (I didn't even know that was an option. Maybe I should read my original instruction book again!). One suggestion to use an eyedropper. I found out how little I actually got into the unit when I disassembled the engine. What a mess. One funnel ready to be ordered. And yes the brass tube is there. Actually found out the smoke unit does work. It just doesn't work very well by design. As suggested I added a fifth wire to provide a solid ground the lack of which may have been part of the original problem. A suggestion was also made to increase output by enlarging / replacing the hole between the choochoo chamber and the smoke element chamber. I chickened out on this one as I couldn't take off the small cover plate on the top as suggested. While I'm ordering parts anyway I think I'll put a spring on the front truck anyway as Doug suggested. I figure it couldn't hurt. A shot of contact cleaner on the reverse unit has worked wonders. AND I got a pretty good explanation of how it works too. The broken coupler is a working knuckle coupler. As expected my glue job didn't last long. With an explanation I got I see now that the coupler itself is removable from the truck and can be replaced. While I was cleaning and re-lubing I had the drive wheels off. Connecting power to it I discovered that it actually choochoos too. Too bad It's so much noisier after I put the wheels back on that I can't hear the choochoo. Thanks again everyone. -- Jerry Riechert

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11620	From: Rick Evans	Date: 2/6/2001
Subject: Member update....

We now have 630 members!!!! Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11621	From: Becker, Neil A	Date: 2/6/2001
Subject: MRC Dual Power 027 Transformers

Hi all, Anybody have any experience using MRC's Dual Power 027 (270 Watt) transformers with Gilbert AF and/or Lionel AF? Is this too much power for the Gilbert motors, etc. ? Please respond directly as I am in digest mode. Thanks. Neil becks@... <mailto:becks@...> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11622	From: Eugene Steffan	Date: 2/6/2001
Subject: S vs Sn3

Hi: Hope the group can help. I've heard the term "Sn3" and know it refers to the scale of trains but I don't know how it relates to "S". Is the 1/64 scale the same? Are Sn3 rolling stock and engines compatible with A/F track? What other differences are involved? Thanks for any help you can provide. Gene

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11623	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 2/6/2001
Subject: Re: MRC Dual Power 027 Transformers

Technically there is no such thing as too much power. A motor only draws what it needs to run. Watch the voltage limit if running modern electronic reverse units. Ron Bashista of American Models claims the 20 volt output of some transformers (like Lionel ZW) can damage these. One of our club members tried an MRC and had no problems. As a point of reference my AF 12B transformer puts out 250 watts @ up to 15 or 16 volts. "Becker, Neil A" wrote: > > Hi all, > > Anybody have any experience using MRC's Dual Power 027 (270 Watt) > transformers with Gilbert AF and/or Lionel AF? Is this too much power for > the Gilbert motors, etc. ? > > Please respond directly as I am in digest mode. Thanks. > > Neil > becks@... <mailto:becks@...> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11624	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/6/2001
Subject: Re: S vs Sn3

Eugene, whenever you see a railroad modeling designation of "Xnx" it translates thus: "X" is the scale "n" indicates narrow gauge "x" is the width of the gauge, in scale feet. So Sn3 is S scale, three foot gauge Sn2-1/2 is S scale, two and a half foot gauge (very very close to HO gauge track) etc. Hope this helps some! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11625	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 2/6/2001
Subject: Re: S vs Sn3

S scale always means 1/64. S usually denotes standard 4' 8 1/2" gauge. Sn3 denotes S scale 3' narrow gauge. Eugene Steffan wrote: > > Hi: > Hope the group can help. I've heard the term "Sn3" and know it refers > to the scale of trains but I don't know how it relates to "S". Is the > 1/64 scale the same? Are Sn3 rolling stock and engines compatible with > A/F track? What other differences are involved? Thanks for any help > you can provide. > Gene > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11626	From: dlehnhoff@hotmail.com	Date: 2/6/2001
Subject: MRC Dual pwr Transformer

I used one for a while. Worked OK, but I felt it made the E units hum excessively. Dwight Lehnhoff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11627	From: mlmarmer@msn.com	Date: 2/6/2001
Subject: 21130 Reverse Unit

I would like to thank Dave0616, Tom Jarcho, Lance McCold, Chris Zizzo, and David Horn for all the responses about the reverse unit and to Chris about the lighting and picture files which I will respond to in a seperate email. I would of replied last night but I was at a Folk concert, my other passion in life. Folk Music and S gauge (American Flyer) seemed to have die in the late 1960's but both are coming back. Folk is not like the protest songs of then, great music today, great balads and songs of things in life. Wonderful talent that gets no airplay. Okay, I saw Richard Shindel and James Keelaghan. Okay, you all never heard of them, sort of like S to the other gauges out there when you tell strangers to trains about our hobby. But then my first HO set in 1965 at age 10 after Flyer was Varney while all the kids in the neighborhood where getting those great UP Tyco passenger sets I still remembered! Varney is gone, too! Oh well, long live old and new S and folk music. Anyway, I did try Tom's suggestions and that didn't work. I then pulled off the engine shell and everything looks well connected after almost destorying the outside gears when attempting to make the thing run. A scary thing for a amateur! Did I kill it off? Almost. It still only runs with the reverse unit pushed in! It lives another day, for now. I guess I will take it to Harwood Owings III and have him look at it. At least I gave it a try and thanks to all for your help. I did look through some old S-Gaugian magazines for the article about the cam by Tom as suggested by David Horn and could not find it. I was wondering Tom if you can recall what issue that was, maybe I can order a back issue for future referance. Actually, I was also wondering, Tom, if you could talk to Don H. if he could put all your articles into one publication since you have over 50 already, for a book or magazine of referrance. Also, maybe include Bob Tuffs articles. Bob is a great guy and I haven't seem for a few years. But the publication was just a thought for a future referrance book or magazine type unit. Mike Marmer Germantown, MD

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11628	From: mlmarmer@msn.com	Date: 2/6/2001
Subject: Reverse Unit Problem

Hi Doug, I just saw your post, still behind from yesterday, must stop going to folk concerts! Thanks for your response to the problem. I still amire the work you did on that MSL Baldwin I purchase from the late Merle Parsons from Wells, Maine. I see the black plastic pieces holding the copper bar and will print your email out also for my repair person to have as reference. Just finished planning our dates to Maine this year but probably won't be able to stop and see you. I do appreciate the offer to see you in MA. It is a long 12 hour drive from Germantown to Freeport, Maine (12 hours) and then up another 4 hours to Acadia! Thanks, Mike Marmer

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11629	From: mlmarmer@msn.com	Date: 2/6/2001
Subject: Email message

I am not sure if my email message to Dave0616, Tom, Lance, Chris and David Horn came through to you on your email but it is posted at the S-train site for you in case you didn't receive it. Mike Marmer

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11630	From: mlmarmer@msn.com	Date: 2/6/2001
Subject: testing

Testing because previous messages sent today did appear with regular email. They are on the message board. Please read. Mike

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11631	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 2/6/2001
Subject: New Lionel AF Items

Joe's Train Repair is pleased to be able to offer the Lionel Catalog 2001 Book 1 American Flyer cars and accessories. Prices listed below will be honored until March 1, 2001--but there is no deposit and no payment is due until shipment is imminent. Shipping costs are extra and will be UPS Ground unless otherwise requested. 6-48343 AF Great Northern Boxcar (Oct) $43 6-48524 AF Borden's Flatcar (Oct) $40 6-48525 AF Burlington Gondola (Nov) $40 6-48619 AF Union Pacific Hopper (Dec) $40 6-49807 AF 752 Seaboard Coaler (Sept) $155 6-49806 AF 23796 Sawmill (June) $77 6-49805 AF 23780 Gabe the Lamplighter (June) $101 Joe ===== Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,100 part lines American Models ########################## S-Helper Service Official Licensed Dealer for Gilbert Reproductions joestrainrepair@... Master Charge/Visa __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11632	From: Eugene Steffan	Date: 2/6/2001
Subject: S vs Sn3

Thanks to all who helped enlighten me regarding Sn3. It really was appreciated. Gene

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11633	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 2/6/2001
Subject: Lionel 2001 Book 1 Catalog

The Lionel 2001 Book 1 Catalog is now available on the Lionel web site. To view the American Flyer items, go to: www.lionel.com/cat-2001/index.html Then, click on "Table of Contents" Then, click on "American Flyer", pages 88-91" Note that although the actual catalog shows the accessories twice, once with an O gauge car and once with an S gauge car. However, in this "American Flyer" section of their catalog on the web site these items are shown only with 3-rail O gauge items. Joe ===== Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,100 part lines American Models ########################## S-Helper Service Official Licensed Dealer for Gilbert Reproductions joestrainrepair@... Master Charge/Visa __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11634	From: jfred4436@aol.com	Date: 2/6/2001
Subject: ???

OK, for narrow gauge, it's Snx. But, how would you code five foot gauge? Sw5 ?? Or what? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11635	From: Jacques Ollivier	Date: 2/6/2001
Subject: Carnes videos

O.K. guys, The guy who sold me the videos said that Carnes had died. My access to the VCR (with 2 curtain climbers in the house) is limited, so I'm still about half way through the first tape. It is a lot of fun to watch even if there are fakes (as many have reported). The stories of buying out of the Gilbert scrap piles makes my mouth water. Then again, 15 or more minutes of 630 caboose variations almost sent me to sleep. What are the legalities of copying these tapes? Law abidingly yours, Jacques

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11636	From: finerty, paul	Date: 2/7/2001
Subject: (no subject)

Lionel's catalog text for the Lamplighter accessory reads: "There are others who claim to know Gabe, but they really only know a friend or acquaintance of him. More like a 'Jim' or a 'Bob' perhaps. No, the real Gabe is right here. Made with tools used in 1958, you can be sure that Gabe is still Gabe, not some Tom, Dick or Harry imposter." Oh boy, a humorous slap at the other folks making repro's of the item. What a good example of their sorry marketing skills. Gee, I wonder why they're losing market share....... Paul Finerty [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11637	From: busyboy	Date: 2/7/2001
Subject: Re: S vs Sn3

Gene asked: >I've heard the term "Sn3" and know it refers >to the scale of trains but I don't know how it relates to "S". Is the >1/64 scale the same? Are Sn3 rolling stock and engines compatible with >A/F track? What other differences are involved? He got good answers, too. But I think that his question has more depth to it. We already know that Sn3 means S scale at 1/64th. of reality with narrow gauge tracks set to emulate a 3 foot gauged real prototype. On3 would model the same prototype in O scale at 1/48th. of the real. HOn3 is a popular modeling venue. There can exist Nn3 and even Zn3 if your modeling skills are up to the task. Interestingly, G gauge is already a narrow gauge diminution. Where full standard (not narrow) gauge trains run on G tracks, they are manufactured to be a smaller scale than the American woodburners gauged in G. That is because the same tracks are playing the role of 4' 8.5" gauge for the standards and 3' gauge for the narrows. In all other scales, the rails get narrower, but the trains scale out the same. Although narrow gauge trains may be smaller than standard gauge trains, that only reflects the size differences of the prototype. The people, the automobiles, the houses, are all interchangeable between S and Sn3. If you go to visit the Durango & Silverton, you don't get smaller, do you? Sn3 equipment cannot run on Flyer track. Flyer made an American 4-4-0 loco body that looks like narrow gauge equipment. It actually modeled standard gauge equipment of the 1800's. The Franklin and Washington locos are really too big for O scale! They were made such a large size because an actual scale 4-4-0 would have been really small and too delicate to handle. It also would not have been able to contain the mechanisms of full size Flyer equipment and would have required a great deal of new engineering. It also might not have been attractive to a public who could have felt it was too "HO" for them. The Frontiersman locos were made to approximate the size of other Flyer steamers, using the same philosophy of other toymakers who build toys to fit a child's hand more than to comply with some specific scale. For an interesting comparison of sizes, take a look at the Bachmann Spectrum On30 sets. These are O scale early American engines and cars on 30" narrow gauge, which approximates HO gauge. (Standard RR gauge is 4' 8.5" or 56.5". 30" is a little more than half that. HO is a litle more than half O. Voila!) If you compare the coaches to O scale buildings and equipment, you realize that they look right. Door heights, window sizes, step treads and risers, all scale out to 1/48. Yet they run on HO rails. The same rails much tinier Big Boys haul 50' boxcars on. (Refer to the G gauge paragraph above.) Some S modelers have adapted the Bachman sets to run on Flyer rails with new trucks and wheels. The reason this can work is because the cars are made following small prototypes, so they don't overpower S. They are a bit tall, but so are the Frontier style coaches Flyer made, so it all washes out. In S, these cars are being run as standard gauge. As to JFred's question: "OK, for narrow gauge, it's Snx. But, how would you code five foot gauge? Sw5?" I don't know how it's done, but what he suggests is the way we should do it! I just wonder, JFred, are you modeling Russian steam or Bay Area Rapid Transit? (BTW, MTH's BART cars are running on standard 3 rail O. But, I guess if you are willing to overlook that extra rail . . .) It only takes Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11638	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/7/2001
Subject: MTH 2001 Vol 2 cat, intersting pic!

Hi all, The toytrains list mentions that the MTH Vol2 catalog is online, but all I can get is the cover page, the links all still go to vol1. HOWEVER, if you pass your cursor over the product line listings, when you get to "Accessories" the picture is of their ZW tranny, and a AF look-alike sawmill! Hmm. . . . S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11639	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 2/7/2001
Subject: 5 ft gauge

Chris: The Erie RR was originally built to 5 ft gauge. That is why its route is preferred for wide loads -- the clearances are still mostly superb. Apparently the height clearances are good too. As you know , no rr ever serving NYC had a vista dome car. Yet a few years ago there was a rail fair at the Hoboken terminal, along with a meeting of the association of private railroad car owners. They brought their cars in on the Erie's old southern tier route, and thus were able to include a vista dome from the old California Zephyr. It was a real blast to sit up in the dome and look out at the New York skyline; to my knowledge, that was a first. How I wish I had had a camera! Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11640	From: david garber	Date: 2/7/2001
Subject: mth 2011

the MTH &Lionel list keeps growing as do our EYES .It would be nice if we got to see the whites of their eyes or are we looking into dark holes? Or sucked into dark holes in a big sky ?????? DAVID S.GARBER

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11641	From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade	Date: 2/7/2001
Subject: Freight Car Clearance Sale

Howdy Friends Di and I are gearing up for a possible move of the business in the next few months. Time to get smaller digs since we are no longer doing the magazine! And as we dust off and pack up, we trip over some stock that needs to find a home. So, the first of the Spring Cleaning has started! Jump to http://www.btsrr.com/btssale.htm to see the list of S-Helper cars needing a good home. Thanks, Bill -- =============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11642	From: mlmarmer@msn.com	Date: 2/7/2001
Subject: Lighting

Chris Zizzo, Thanks for the information about the shields for Fluorescent lighting. I did learn AFTER I installed the lighting about the effets of UV on things and did purchase UV shields from a major plastic manufacturer in the DC area. But I didn't know about the the sheets of film you wrote to me about and I think I might look into that. Putting the bulbs in the light fixtures are a pain with the tubes going one way and the end caps going another. I have used black electrical tape on the ends of the tubes, a little better. So the wrap might be better overall and a layer inside the cover might be good also. However, right now that room is a finished basement room in a townhouse that is barely used(the room)at all, so the lights hardly get turned on. I am planning someday to build a 12 x 9 layout and getting to the lighting above the table might be very difficult and I really am concern about the UV with the filters not working properly, so I think I will be changing the lighting before building the layout. So I will call in an electrician for ideas. Home Depot, I am sure has no real knowledge on lighting and I want to do it right with an expert. TCA might be a good source for information on lighting. I do not know why the pictures I sent have the plus signs in the desription, maybe from the spacing of the words I used. And the oops page that appears is beyond me also. I will try again. I am not having very good luck with emails on this site at times. As far as storing the trains in boxes, you can't look at the trains that way. So I did build the custom shelving with the sliding plexiglass doors to protect them from the dust. I do have many key pieces in mint and excellent condition and they will never be run on the layout. I do not collect things for investment purposes, that is what the 401K at work is for. Anyone collecting things soley for the purpose of investment is in a hobby for the wrong reason. I collect old Flyer, because like many of us, they were great trains and a joy to own. They are wonderful pieces from another time and era. I hope to donate my collection in my old age to TCA because their American Flyer display is very weak and TCA is dominated by O gauge. The engine from my original request is no better off and now the smoke unit died on me when I took the shell off! Oh well, time to take it to a person who knows what they are doing! Thanks for everything, I will let you know what I find out about the film, should I go that route. Now do I use the American Flyer track........another time. Mike Marmer Germantown, MD

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11643	From: riechert@qwest.net	Date: 2/7/2001
Subject: LVTS smoke fluid

Saw this on the toytrains list. Apparently LVTS smoke fluid is still available to dealers: http://www.enter.net/~stiles/train.html but have your local dealer contact him. He doesn't want to cut out the local dealer.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11644	From: Tom Stolte	Date: 2/7/2001
Subject: Not happy with the new Yahoo look? Try this

Hi, I got this off the cnw list. Sorry for cross posting. Tom Stolte > Subject: Not happy with the new Yahoo look? Try this > > Hate the way egroups has changed?? > Try these links. > I've tried a few and they are the way it used to be...all your > groups will be listed. > > Try this site > http://au.egroups.com/mygroups > It's the same good old systems of eGroups > You won't be disappointed. You'll have the same id and password. > > Also, you can try these. > Australia http://au.egroups.com/mygroups > Canada http://www.egroups.ca/ > UK http://www.egroups.co.uk/ > HK http://www.egroups.com.hk/ > India http://in.egroups.com/ > Japan: http://www.egroups.co.jp/ > Korea http://kr.egroups.com/ > Taiwan http://tw.egroups.com/ > France http://www.egroups.fr/ > Germany http://www.egroups.de/ > Italy http://it.egroups.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11645	From: dthomas@eznet.net	Date: 2/7/2001
Subject: 15 volt vs. 18 volt transformers

Hello everyone, I have a 16B 175 watt transformer with 5-18v and 18v outputs, and a 16B 190 watt transformer with 7-15v and 15v outputs. I was thinking of using one for running trains and small accessories or lights, and the other for just accessories. Can anyone suggest which would be the better choice for either application? Or does it matter at all! I run both Old flyer and newer SHS and AM. Thanks! Mike Thomas [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11646	From: neil.trump@bt.com	Date: 2/7/2001
Subject: MTH Lamps

It looks like MTH is reproducing the 580 lamps in silver and grey, not sure if this has been mentioned before. Neil T.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11647	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 2/7/2001
Subject: Re: 15 volt vs. 18 volt transformers

Ron Bashista of AM recommends not using 20V for his electronics (AC reverse and sound). I have heard of 18V transformers putting out close to 20V measured. Therefore 15V might be safer for running trains. The down side is your acccessory bulb life may be lower using the 18V. However, if you dedicate a transformer to accessories then you can use the variable post of the 18V and tune it down a bit, to about 15V- this enhances bulb life a lot. dthomas@... wrote: > > Hello everyone, > > I have a 16B 175 watt transformer with 5-18v and 18v outputs, > and a 16B 190 watt transformer with 7-15v and 15v outputs. > > I was thinking of using one for running trains and small accessories > or lights, and the other for just accessories. > > Can anyone suggest which would be the better choice for either > application? Or does it matter at all! I run both Old flyer and newer > SHS and AM. > > Thanks! > > Mike Thomas > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11648	From: Tom Stolte	Date: 2/7/2001
Subject: New Decals from Oddballs Decals - N, S, HO & O scales

613 ADMX 40' funnel flow tank car. (2-99) Painted black. Walthers kit. White, blue & black lettering. 614 Modern Day Graffitti 615 Modern Day Graffitti 616 Modern Day Graffitti 617 Modern Day Graffitti The Modern Day Graffitti is hard to describe by email as they all look different. These are taken from real cars. All I did was to edit the car out and then I printed the graffitti. These are printed in full color. You need to go the web page to check them out. Also the graffitti will not have labels telling when its goes on the car. You may place them anywhere. The N scale sets will letter 2 or 3 cars. S & O scale will letter 1 car. All the above decals refer to HO scale kits on the market. These will also work for other scales. Just pick a car of your choice in the other scales. Prefix numbers for N scale 60-. HO scale 87-. S scale 64-. O scale 48-. N & HO scale retail price $3.00. S & O scale retail price $6.00. These should be in your favorite hobby shop within the next month or so. If ordering direct, please include $1.75 for p&h. Up to date catalog N, HO, S & O scale, $5.00, plus $1.75 for p&h. You buy this catalog once, then every 3 months or so, send me a LSSAE for updates. Fits in a 3 ring binder. -- Tom Stolte - Oddballs Decals N, HO, S & O Scale Model Railroad Decals 26550 227th Street; McLouth, Kansas 66054 Phone: 913-727-6649 - oddballdecal@... Web site http://www.oddballsdecals.com/ Subscribe: OddballsDecals-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Missouri Pacific Photos Web Page: http://www.trainweb.org/mopac/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11649	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 2/7/2001
Subject: 21004????

Anyone out there with a 21004 boiler shell???? I'm not nuts just hopefull Mike S. PS a 21005 would also work (this may be a little nuts)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11650	From: Rick Evans	Date: 2/8/2001
Subject: Re: #779 oil drum loader........

--- In S-Trains@y..., "Rick Evans" <comic@d...> wrote: ***(((I'm going to try to get my loader working. I bench tested it in the past, hooking it up according to the diagram on page 49 of Tom barker's book.)))*** Someone posted that Tom barker's book has some mistakes on electrical. Soooooo.....For those who have the book, is the diagram the correct way to hook up a barrel loader?? I won't get anything to work ifn' it's hooked up wrong!! Thanks, Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11651	From: erierailroad@aol.com	Date: 2/8/2001
Subject: ACE BOXCAR SHELLS

Hello, Back in the 70's, Ace made some undecorated repro AF boxcar shells. If anyone has some for sale, please contact me off line. Thanks, Jack

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11652	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 2/8/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] MBTA

Brian, We do make adjustable chassis for S gauge trolleys and small locos. They make projects such as yours a lot less hassel. The Cincinnatti Muesum has been using a fleet of them for over a year now and , according to their project director the other day, they are very pleased with the performance. We also used this design in a GE 44 ton locomotive which has been out fro a few years and everyone that got one seems happy. They are a 6'3" wheelbase and we have either resin castings or (within a month) pweter sideframes for MCB sideframes. The trucks are also availabe with PCC wheels if you are going a little more modern. If you keep an eye on our web site we will shortly have a conversion for the new Industrial Rail deck roof, double truck car which is 1/55. This is quite a car since it comes with a reverse unit, operating bumpers reversing headlighrts and interior lighting. It can also be detailed inside if you want to use it as a DC car. We had a sample at Amherst but didn't get a chance to run it in public. It is also a version of the adjustable chassis. As far as trolleys in S gauge, there have been poor quality resin castings through the years which we have seen and also powered and a few brass cars which are very rare. If you are looking for a Boston type 5 or similar, it would probably be easier to scratch build. I have found that the Corgi is acceptable to most S Hirail since it is a low profile car and comes painted and ready to go. If you want to do an LRV, I would suggest laser cutting the body since there are no rivets to worry about and the process is very cost effective. The trucks would be close to PCC type so you would have a reasonable model without the heart ache! ----- Original Message ----- From: <Redwilde@...> To: <S-Scale@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 5:58 PM Subject: [S-Scale] MBTA > Hi folks, > > I'm just starting design work on my first S-scale project, a small > easily portable layout of the Government Center (nee Scollay Square) T > stop on Boston's subway system. > The track is a very tight radius Y with some curved crossings thrown > in, so I'll have to handlay the track. There's also a stretch of > straight through track in a lower tunnel, and perhaps later I'll add a > Blue Line train for that too. > Of course the trolley's themselves will have to be scratchbuilt. > Considering that I'll be running single car trains (or pulling one > dummy at most), and considering the cost of S-scale locos, I'm heading > towards using an HO scale engine for each of the chassis and widening > the trucks. As well as saving lots of money, this should leave me with > plenty of room for interior detailing. And depending on which style > cars I finally go with, I may also have the leftover HO shells on hand > to use as a modelling guide if those particular models are available at > low prices (IHC has a Boeing LRV which is one of the contenders). > I also know that Corgi makes some non-operating 1/64 die-cast > trolleys, which I haven't looked at closely recently, I'm hoping they > have PCC cars, and that perhaps an HO motor would be sufficient to > carry the weight of one of these shells. > Has anyone here done anything similar with HO chassis and have any > tips to offer? > Any preferred reference guide for handlaying turnouts and crossings? > > A bit of explanation and brief commercial plug: > While this project would certainly be easier to do in HO, its going > to be S to match a line of wargaming figures I'm starting to > manufacture. I run a small gaming company, Goblintooth Enterprises. > My latest game in development is Wild Ones, a tabletop miniatures game > of biker brawls, and an accompanying line of 1/64 scale bikers (aka > 28mm, a popular size for skirmish level wargaming figures). When the > full figure line is in production, I'll be offering it on the model > train market as well as the gaming market. And I'll also produce a > smaller range of the figures in HO, N, and O scales too. > The train layout will provide a good demo model to use for running > Wild Ones scenarios at gaming conventions as well as for display at > model train conventions. > > --Brian Reddington-Wilde > > > > The topic is S Scale please keep your messages 'on-topic'. > To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@... > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11653	From: Russell Layton	Date: 2/8/2001
Subject: remove please

Please remove me from your list. I got 35 unwanted emails about trains. Thanks ===== Rusty LaytonRussell Layton Associates, Inc.Home Inspection Services703-354-4554rustyl@... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11654	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 2/8/2001
Subject: 15 or 18 volt transformers

Generally, 15v rated AF transformers provide about 16.6 volts, and 18v rated units make about 19.5 volts. You can tell the difference when running trains, particularly on a big layout. On my small 7'x5' home layout, I use 15v rated 15B and 16B transformers to power the trains, and 15v or 16v rated 12B, 4B and 1-1/2B transformers for lighting and accessories. AM, LTI, and ACG engines work fine. On our larger club layout, which can get as large as 26x26 possibly bigger, we have found 18v rated 30B's work best. There's definitely an extra kick to the engines, and switches, etc. respond crisply with the 19+ volts flowing. We had concerns about too much power for AM, SHS, and LTI engines, but so far haven't fried any IC reverse units. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11655	From: Peck	Date: 2/8/2001
Subject: Re: MTH 580 lamps

<<It looks like MTH is reproducing the 580 lamps in silver and grey, not sure if this has been mentioned before. >> They've been out for some time now (a year??) We have them in stock....perfect Gilbert reproductions, in green or silver. Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11656	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/9/2001
Subject: Sawmill Madness!!! count 'em TWO!

Hi guys, Maybe I'm the last to know, but MTH is issuing the AF sawmill for $89.95 list, and it's part no. 30-9122. Description is "No. 23796 Saw Mill. Hmm wonder where they found that number? Hmm, Isn't "Saw Mill" one word--sawmill? And the big question: When will it be delivered? Will it jam too?? Hmm. . . .Round 3--Fight of the toy trainmen! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11657	From: joe messinger	Date: 2/9/2001
Subject: Connections?

Anyone know of a source for a plug and socket that would work as a connector between the reverse unit in the tender and the plug to the locomotive? I installed a QSI reverse unit in the tender of one of my locomotives. The QSI came with a dandy little connector. It allows me to, completely, remove the tender shell from the frame (without un-soldering wires) which makes working on the e-unit much easier. Short of buying another QSI unit, I can't find a suitable plug for that purpose. Radio Shack didn't have anything. Would appreciate any advice/ideas. Thanks, Joe M. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11658	From: busyboy	Date: 2/9/2001
Subject: 15 or 18 volt transformers

David Horn said: >On our larger club layout, which can get as large as >26x26 possibly bigger, we have found 18v rated 30B's work best. There's >definitely an extra kick to the engines, and switches, etc. respond crisply >with the 19+ volts flowing. We had concerns about too much power for AM, >SHS, and LTI engines, but so far haven't fried any IC reverse units. David: More than likely, you are experiencing load related voltage drops throughout your system. Actual readings taken at full load might read 16 VAC or less. However, with a lesser transformer, they would read even lower. You probably would not blow any reverse units if you were supplying even slightly higher voltage, because the effective voltage is lowered by load. Just don't run one engine at full tilt with everything else shut off! Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11659	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 2/9/2001
Subject: Sawmills & such....

You know, I have kept quiet on all of this, but I have to wonder. Why are people canceling their MTH orders to rush to buy this Lionel stuff? I have only been in this hobby a little over two years, but I have come to dislike Lionel. I have a pile of LTI rolling stock that I bought before running any of it. Once I put it on the track, the trucks and couplers are very inferior (in my humble opinion) to the original AF stuff. The wheels of many squeek, drag and derail, and the couplers though many different versions, none seem as good as original Gilbert. Will their accessories be of the same quality? I ordered a Lionel sawmill a couple of days ago. It wasn't much money, but had I known that MTH was making one, I might have waited. Anyway, once I have reserved a piece, I stick with it. But if the sawmill isn't better than the LTI rolling stock I own, that will be my last LTI purchase. As for the real Gabe, well Gilbert went out of business 40+ years ago. Lionel has proven over and over again, that they are not the A.C. Gilbert company! They also have virtually no loyality to S gaugers, and I certainly have no reason to feel loyalty toward them. Just one man's opinion...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11660	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 2/9/2001
Subject: Re: 15 or 18 volt transformers

Dear David, Actually, one possible problem with many S layouts and the newer electronic reverse units is the fact that some of the early Lionel KW and ZW transformers can output as much as 24 VAC. We were alerted to this situation by Dallas Gutacker of Dallee Electronics and made adjustments in our design for the SW-9 and SW-1 to accommodate the higher voltage. Don Thompson busyboy wrote: > David Horn said: > >On our larger club layout, which can get as large as > >26x26 possibly bigger, we have found 18v rated 30B's work best. There's > >definitely an extra kick to the engines, and switches, etc. respond crisply > >with the 19+ volts flowing. We had concerns about too much power for AM, > >SHS, and LTI engines, but so far haven't fried any IC reverse units. > > David: > More than likely, you are experiencing load related voltage drops throughout > your system. Actual readings taken at full load might read 16 VAC or less. > However, with a lesser transformer, they would read even lower. > > You probably would not blow any reverse units if you were supplying even > slightly higher voltage, because the effective voltage is lowered by load. > Just don't run one engine at full tilt with everything else shut off! > > Two to go, > Chris Zizzo -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New standard flat cars with loads are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/fcwithloads_in_stock.html http://www.showcaseline.com/fc_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11661	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 2/9/2001
Subject: Re: 15 or 18 volt transformers

The members of our club have pretty much agreed not to go KW or ZW for that reason. An 18v rated 30B is high enough. We had been running a 19B (15v rated) and it worked OK, but we didn't get the same uummmph as with the higher voltage 30B. Another reason we favor the 30B is that with an AM/OMS sound box in a circuit engine speeds are noticeably reduced. With the 15v 19B it was objectionably noticeable, with the 30B the reduction is down to about "normal" speeds. One of our members designed a smart box that allows us to have sound on or off (the OMS box in or out of the wiring to the track). That way those with modern sound systems can use them, those without can get "full" power if they want it. PS I once ran on a large layout powered by a ZW. Before realizing just how much voltage it was generating, it spun my 312 so fast it actully pulled its own brushes in on a slant and started to munch the comms (old nearly pure copper brushes). Fortunately I was able to reface the comms and it runs fine now, but I learned never to go full tilt if a _W is the power source. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11662	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 2/9/2001
Subject: Re: 15 or 18 volt transformers

I copied Dallas Gutacker of Dallee Electronics about this thread and he added... Another comment to them is to run heavier wire and avoid the use of high voltages. If voltages this high were sustained to the engine, it would not only damage the electronics but burn out the motors! The motors used on most all locomotives are a nominal 12 to 14 volt type and are not rated for the higher voltages (you can add another 1.4 volts to that to obtain the AC voltage). Even the original American Flyer motors do not want to see much over 15 volts! If a layout is properly wired, with 14 gauge minimum, and multiple feeds to the track, there is no need for the higher voltage. This is also true of the American Flyer switches. Just a note, the switch coils on American Flyer switches draw a nominal 5 amperes of current! That's right 5 amperes! Quite a slug of current when operating a switch. Now you know why the lights dim when operating one. Again, heavier wire to those remote switches does prevent them from burning out and prevents the overstress presented by higher voltages. david_horn@... wrote: > The members of our club have pretty much agreed not to go KW or ZW for that > reason. An 18v rated 30B is high enough. We had been running a 19B (15v > rated) and it worked OK, but we didn't get the same uummmph as with the > higher voltage 30B. Another reason we favor the 30B is that with an AM/OMS > sound box in a circuit engine speeds are noticeably reduced. With the 15v > 19B it was objectionably noticeable, with the 30B the reduction is down to > about "normal" speeds. One of our members designed a smart box that allows > us to have sound on or off (the OMS box in or out of the wiring to the > track). That way those with modern sound systems can use them, those > without can get "full" power if they want it. > > PS I once ran on a large layout powered by a ZW. Before realizing just how > much voltage it was generating, it spun my 312 so fast it actully pulled its > own brushes in on a slant and started to munch the comms (old nearly pure > copper brushes). Fortunately I was able to reface the comms and it runs > fine now, but I learned never to go full tilt if a _W is the power source. -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New standard flat cars with loads are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/fcwithloads_in_stock.html http://www.showcaseline.com/fc_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11663	From: David	Date: 2/9/2001
Subject: IP Access And Trains

This is not 100% train related, but it does affect my train hunting so here goes. I currently have AOL as my IP providor. Every day I get more and more dusgusted with the poor service/performace of AOL. Constant screen freezes, hang-ups (punts), unbearably slow page loading, and worse htm loading particularly with htm pages or forms that have a lot of frames and animated gifs. Even IM's take up to 30 seconds to pop up after sending. Half the time I cannot access 1/3 of my "favorites" linked train sites such as this s-list, because the page never loads and/or times out. In your opinions, is this just a browser problem (I use Internet Explorer), or is it related to AOL and their connections/setups? I have been looking into several IP providors, and was wondering what opinions anyone may have that are on any of these. I have been looking into the following for an unlimited access type of account with a regular dial up modem access (56/K): Earthlink (Formerly Mindspring) MSN ATTNET Juno Are any of these any good?? Do any of these suffer from the same troubles I am experienceing with AOL? Does Juno have an unlimited access plan? They only seem to show a $14.95 for 450 hours a month. Any other pointers and tips are more than welcome. Please respond via e-mail so we don't clutter the list up too much. Thanks all....Dave

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11664	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 2/9/2001
Subject: Re: ACE BOXCAR SHELLS

erierailroad@... wrote: > Hello, > > Back in the 70's, Ace made some undecorated repro AF boxcar shells. If anyone > has some for sale, please contact me off line. > > Thanks, > Jack > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... This is shells, not conversion floors?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11665	From: Scott Holm	Date: 2/9/2001
Subject: Re: heavier wire

--- Robin Thompson <robin@...> wrote: > I copied Dallas Gutacker of Dallee Electronics about this thread and > he added... >heavier wire to those remote switches does prevent them from burning >out and prevents the overstress presented by higher voltages. How does heavier wire to the switch prevent it from burning out? Wouldn't heavier wire provide less resistance to the current and therefore deliver more current (and higher voltage) to the device? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11666	From: Alex	Date: 2/9/2001
Subject: Re: heavier wire

Absolutely! The only thing that will prevent burnout is to ensure that only a momentary pulse of ac power is applied to the switch coil. Heavier wiring will ensure low voltage drops in your system's wiring (a good thing), but will also ensure a fried coil if your controller is stuck "on." -- Alex -----Original Message----- From: Scott Holm [mailto:imsscott@...] Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 12:00 PM To: s-trains Subject: Re: [S-Trains] heavier wire --- Robin Thompson <robin@...> wrote: > I copied Dallas Gutacker of Dallee Electronics about this thread and > he added... >heavier wire to those remote switches does prevent them from burning >out and prevents the overstress presented by higher voltages. How does heavier wire to the switch prevent it from burning out? Wouldn't heavier wire provide less resistance to the current and therefore deliver more current (and higher voltage) to the device? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11667	From: Bill Porter	Date: 2/9/2001
Subject: Re: heavier wire

The ancient wisdom is that heavier wire does indeed lower the resistance and therefore provides higher current and higher voltage. The reason that protects the switch coils is that the switches tend to actually switch quickly and operators tend to release the button before there is a heat build up. If the current or voltage is too low to activate the switch, we all tend to hold the button down - that can lead to heat build up and fried coils. Has anyone tried using a CD system like snapper with Flyer switches? They work well for twin coil machines in smaller scales. Later, Bill Porter -----Original Message----- From: Scott Holm <imsscott@...> To: s-trains <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Date: Friday, February 09, 2001 12:06 PM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] heavier wire >--- Robin Thompson <robin@...> wrote: >> I copied Dallas Gutacker of Dallee Electronics about this thread and >> he added... >>heavier wire to those remote switches does prevent them from burning >>out and prevents the overstress presented by higher voltages. > >How does heavier wire to the switch prevent it from burning out? >Wouldn't heavier wire provide less resistance to the current and >therefore deliver more current (and higher voltage) to the device? > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11668	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 2/9/2001
Subject: Re: heavier wire

More from Dallas....... The problem with light gauge wire is that it produces a voltage loss when current flows through it. This loss is especially high when switch machines like the old American Flyer switches are operated. They do draw 5 amperes of current, or better, when operated. With light wire used for switch machines over a long run to the switch, could mean that instead of the intended voltage to throw the switches only half or less is available. This translates into less power to throw the switch and a longer time that you, the operator, keeps power on the switch coil in the hopes that it will throw. Thus helping to overheat the switch coil and burning it up. The American Flyer switches will actually operate fine with only 12 volts AC but the wiring has to be sufficient to prevent a high voltage loss. If you have a voltmeter, try to measure the voltage at the switch terminals of a switch furthest on the layout. Then compare this to the voltage from your transformer used to power the switch. This will show you the loss directly. Hope this helps you out. Dallas -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New standard flat cars with loads are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/fcwithloads_in_stock.html http://www.showcaseline.com/fc_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11669	From: Ben Kronenwetter	Date: 2/9/2001
Subject: Subscribe

Please put me back on the list..Thanks

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11670	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 2/9/2001
Subject: 15 or 18 volt transformers

I am a big fan of Dallas Gutacker and Dallee Electronics. i plan to purchase a bunch of stuff from him in the future. Plus, I'm grateful to him for pulling Don's coat to Lionel transformer voltages so his boards can survive in the hostile AC environment. However, Dallas has obviously not been spending his time setting up and operating medium and large sized Flyer layouts, with Flyer track, as I have. I think he has mostly had locos on his workbench, which is as it should be. Both Don and Dallas are true ground breakers and I admire them both greatly. I have consistently recommended in my articles that 19 volt transformers are best for powering original Flyer. Glad to see other guys are picking up on this. Running trains with inadequate power is not maximum fun. I use 19 volt 18B transformers and new 16 gauge stranded wire, with plenty of feeders, to power my railroads. As I recall (may be wrong about this) track voltage generally measures about 17 VAC on an actual layout. (Chris is right again.) Gilbert Flyer motors and trains DO require this extra kick to get over trestles and get through dead spots that develop when sectional track is used and reused, and illuminated cars, dirty track, pine needles, and other temporary obstacles exist. Flyer motors thrive on this voltage -- I have never burned out an armature on it. 15 volts just will not bring out the best in Gilbert trains. If I were to connect a loco directly to an 18B on my workbench, the 19V might very well cook the motor, but I have never done that. A 100 watt transformer is quite adequate for repair work, and that's what I use. But on an actual layout that's larger than a test loop, it is essential to have that extra kick. This voltage will damage or destroy the boards in LTI and AM locos, so I don't run any. Certain Flyer items, such as the handcar, rocket sled, Baldwin, ARE meant to run on 12 volts or soand will cook at the higher voltage, but they can be babied. Dallas is also correct about Flyer switches sucking down a ton of power. I always dedicate a separate transformer to them. I have never been able to figure out why they were made that way. Wish I could get 16 gauge rainbow wire. However, there is an upside to this. As some of you know, I like to fool around with automatic track switching circuits. In a lot of these, switches are paired, that is, wired to throw together. In fact, on my layout that is pictured on Paul's site, two switches and two semaphores were wired together to be thrown by track trips! (Don't ask, that was last year) But even if it's only two wired together, if something goes wrong, like a stuck track trip, the circuit breaker in a transformer will blow if the switches recieve power for more than a second or two. Now, for those few of you who are considering CD (capacitative discharge) circuits or diode ladders to power Flyer switches, here's a hint. If you implant a roller switch in a Flyer switch, you can use it to control a relay that will cut off power to the switch solenoids once the switch is thrown. I have tested this and it works. Of course, I like to use 4 pole relays so I have more stuff to fool around with. Presumably, you could use digital logic circuits to accomplish the same thing, but that's way beyond me at this point. If I can stop smoking these dern cigarettes, i may live long enough to learn how to do that too. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11671	From: Rick Evans	Date: 2/9/2001
Subject: JL's American Chrome.....

Just came back from Wal-Mart and saw that Johnny Lightning has released the same five American Chrome cars, but with new paint schemes. Also some new military vehicles. Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11672	From: busyboy	Date: 2/9/2001
Subject: 15 or 18 volt transformers

David, Don and everyone: The advice about wire gauge is the best yet. In the horsepower (voltage) wars we want bigger, better, faster. But the real hero is current. Current isn't applied, it is requested. When a device needs 5 amps, 4 won't do. The device may still operate on 4, but more sluggishly. Gassing up the voltage will help in an artificial way. 20 volts applied to a normally operating 16 volt motor will make it snappier in operation. If the motor is sluggish because the wires are too thin to pass enough current around, the extra voltage will make the unit appear to function normally, but you're killing the motor by depriving it of what it needs and giving it what it doesn't want. Look up at the transformer on a utility pole. You will see thin wires atached to it and thick wires too. The thin wires are the high voltage, the thick ones, the lower output voltage. Seems backwards, doesn't it? But voltage and current are reciprocals, that is, when one goes up the other goes down. A 10 volt circuit drawing 10 amps is 100 watts of power usage. So is a 100 volt circuit drawing 1 amp and a 1 volt circuit drawing 100 amps. Current is what requires the heavier wire. High voltage can be applied to any conductor, but it had better be #10 wire if the draw approaches 30 amps. There are given current values for AWG wire sizes. Many are covered with a single voltage, Max. 600V. That's because the wires aren't rated for voltage, their insulators are! 600 V is the (nominal) maximum allowable voltage before the insulator is expected to break down and stop insulating, possibly perforating and allowing arcs. At 20 volts or less, with track whose conductive connections are suspect, you would be well served to staple a double run of 14 gauge THHN household wire around under your layout and wire boosters to the rails every few sections. The cheapest THHN is Romex, although you can buy rolls of individual conductors. This will prevent starving your motors for ample current. Separate as many accessories and switches from train power as you can and run them off cheap, small, extra transformers from starter sets. You can buy these by the boatload on e-Bay or at any train show. With separation, you can run all your accessories at individual ideal voltage levels by using the track variable outputs and the transformer's wiper. Stuff wired near a transformer can run on 16 gauge. For long runs, use 14 gauge. 14 ga. is rated for 15 amps and will easily carry 20. 16 ga. is rated for 10 but can handle 15 amps. Even if you run big trains with lots of lights and whistles, 14 ga. boosters should be enough. Remember, before you added the boosters, you were running just on the track connections! Here's a slogan we can all bandy about: "Dolts Watch Their Volts, Champs Watch Their Amps." Isn't that awful? I was not attempting, in my last post, to promote use of higher voltages. I was just remarking that the output voltage of the transformer may not be what the engine sees, resulting from a myriad of voltage drops due to load. If a motor is supposed to work at 17 volts and 17 volts is supplied to the rails, a voltmeter mounted on the engine could be showing as little as 13 or 14 volts. A 20 volt transformer will therefore supply closer to 17 volts where it is needed. However, higher voltage transformers bring the risk of applying all the voltage at one moment or another to a sensitive circuit. That's why you are better off using the appropriately marked main transformer and improving the current capacity of your wiring as well as reducing the load on the main transformer by shifting accessories to ancillary units. Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11673	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 2/9/2001
Subject: Wire size

Being an elect. for 30+ years I would not reccomend that you excide the rating of wire it is there for a reason. As for the value of thhn over tw or thw besides the ins. being better the copper content in thhn is higher and allows for a greater current flow with less heat. The rating is also for conductors in a raceway (conduit, romex covering, etc.) The rating is also higher for conductors in free air but does not start to go up until you get to #10 which is good for 30amps ...35 in free air #14 is 15amps & #12 is 20amps Both rate the same free air or not. ............Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11674	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 2/9/2001
Subject: 15 0r 18 volt transformers/heavier wire

Got to say, I am really enjoying this thread. Look at it -- we got manufacturers, engineers, electricians, hobbyists, and at least one demento repairman (me) kicking around an important, practical, useful and interesting topic, and almost have the truth surrounded. This is S-trains at its best. Back to my floor layouts. If I were to staple a double ring of 14 gauge wire around my layouts, which sometimes have 500 ft of track, my wife would kill me and I couldn't run my trains any more. Feeders every few sections is not practical on a floor layout. And I doubt Romex would fit under the track. The cost would be another limiting factor. All I know is, 16 gauge wire works well, with feeders every 12 to 20 track feet. The only power drops I experience are in areas that are fed exclusively through Flyer switches. Even using the Caig products on the switch plates and contacts doesn't help much there. My test is, will a double motor Flyer diesel pull two dummies, one with diesel roar, and 5 illuminated passenger cars up a Flyer trestle on the far side of the layout at speed. 16 gauge wire works for this. I very much doubt that a train like this uses 10 amps. The only way you would get to that figure is if you ran 2 double motor units in tandem, and I don't do that. I do double head steam locos and single motor diesels; they work fine. Plus, if I need more wire, I just walk over to the Radio Shack on the corner and buy more 16 gauge speaker wire. All I need is the catalog number. If I were to go into my hardware store and ask for Romex, I would probably just get a blank stare. English is not their strong point. But I will try some 14 gauge Romex. And with my big mouth, will let all know how it works. i used to wire my track with 20 or 22 gauge wire salvaged from burglar alarm systems. Since I switched to 16 gauge, my trains run MUCH better. That's all I know. A common ground wiring system needs to let power flow in various ways, and with this wire it does. I have come to the same conclusions as Chris as to using separate transformers for switches and small transformers for accessories. Small transformers, if in phase with the track transformers, also offer much better control of action cars. Like the way they look, too. So I have been stockpiling them. Even got the "circuit breakers", which are a joke in the 50 volt ones, to work after considerable tweaking. The point is this: whether we are talking amps or volts, champs or dolts, old toy trains need a lot of power and heavy wire. Partly it's just because they are old, I think. If you are seriously running old toy trains, you have to have serious power and wire. Generally, this means a few extra volts. And if you are making "Flyer compatible" trains, any electronic components have to be able to survive in this kind of environment. That's why it is so good that Don and Dallas are making electronics that are tougher. They have to be. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11675	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/9/2001
Subject: Re: Sawmill Madness!!! count 'em TWO!

Wayne, & everyone, The MTH URL to the sawmill is: http://204.156.4.220/accat/railking_acess_items.asp?id=30-0122 I can be fairly certain Big L's sawmill will be produced, as they have all the tooling, and it's already updated from the two previous runs. The MTH? Might just be a "spoiler"! They wouldn't do that would they??? The picture is obviously of an ACG unit. Hmm, Feb 15 is getting closer, and the ship date is still listed, maybe this time we'll see our coal loaders?? S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11676	From: starr007	Date: 2/9/2001
Subject: connector between engine and tender

In reply to Joe Messingers question about a connector from engine to tender. I recently purchased a 326 A.F. engine from Collectible Trains and Toys in Dallas. They hadcleaned and serviced the engine and reverse unit and used a small male -female plug in connector for the fifth wire that runs the headlight and smoke unit. I called to inquire where they found these and they advised me they were made by Marklin and had them in stock as they used them for many various connections on repaired items. I went back to the store a few days later and purchased a basket case 322 and two packages of male and female connectors for future use. They come 10 to a package, male or female and in about 4 or 5 different colors. The packages are not marked with a part number but If you contact CTT they can probably supply you with one. They are very inexpensive and work great. There email is sales@trainsand toys.com. You should probably direct the inquiry to the repair department. I would also guess that anyone in your area that sold and repaired Marklin trains would also be able to you . The ones I purchased were grey in color and about 13/32 long and 8/32 in diameter. The wire is held in place by a small set screw so there is no soldering involved ,although you probably could use solder for a more permanent connection if you wished. Hopes this helps. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11677	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 2/9/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, February 11, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11678	From: gino restivo	Date: 2/9/2001
Subject: Re: Connections?

also from QSi , item # acs-715 5 wire lp harness # acs-722 4 wire " " both list $ 15.75 plus s+h , 1-503-350-0595 www.qsindustries.com ., you might try electronics parts house for sstrip sockets cut them up to the # of wires you want , make 'em look like the QSi one that you have ... a little costly it seems , but when you solder a pair together you might think again ... good luck , gino -----Original Message----- From: joe messinger <jmessinger@...> To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Date: Friday, February 09, 2001 8:13 AM Subject: [S-Trains] Connections? >Anyone know of a source for a plug and socket that would work as a connector >between the reverse unit in the tender and the plug to the locomotive? > >I installed a QSI reverse unit in the tender of one of my locomotives. The >QSI came with a dandy little connector. It allows me to, completely, remove >the tender shell from the frame (without un-soldering wires) which makes >working on the e-unit much easier. Short of buying another QSI unit, I >can't find a suitable plug for that purpose. Radio Shack didn't have >anything. > >Would appreciate any advice/ideas. > >Thanks, > >Joe M. >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Shop online without a credit card http://www.rocketcash.com RocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11679	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 2/9/2001
Subject: GATS SHOW

To all in the So.Cal area: there is a GATS show this weekend hrs: 11:00 Am to 5:00 Pm Sat & Sun Address 800 w. Katella, Anahiem Close to where the Mouse Lives..........Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11680	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/9/2001
Subject: MTH Sawmill picture correction!

Don & all, AAAAUGH!!! I re-read that number many times, but there's a typo! last digits should have been 9122. Corrected URL: http://204.156.4.220/accat/railking_acess_items.asp?id=30-9122 I Checked it, it does work now! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11681	From: Scott Brown	Date: 2/10/2001
Subject: Voltage

Just wanted to piggy back on Chris Zizzo's great info on voltage and current. "Current isn't applied, it is requested. When a device needs 5 amps, 4 won't do. The device may still operate on 4, but more sluggishly. Gassing up the voltage will help in an artificial way. 20 volts applied to a normally operating 16 volt motor will make it snappier in operation. If the motor is sluggish because the wires are too thin to pass enough current around, the extra voltage will make the unit appear to function normally, but you're killing the motor by depriving it of what it needs and giving it what it doesn't want." This is the same reason you burn out the motors in your ceiling fans when you install a dimmer switch in place of the switch. The dimmer slows the motor down, but does so by decreasing the current to the motor. Light bulbs can handle this, but the motor is suffocating.(notice how loudly it humms ? It's telling you something.). It will work for a while, but eventually it will die. You have to install a seperate motor control for the fan motor and use the dimmer for the lights only. (requires seperate wiring). Way to go Chris, Scott Brown Atlantic Coast S Gaugers Washington & Old Dominion Division

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11682	From: Scott Brown	Date: 2/10/2001
Subject: Re: Voltage

Also, Chris says that 14 gauge wire is rated for 15 amps but can handle 20. That's ONLY for wiring your train layout. 14 gauge romex and THHN is rated for 15 amps using 120 volts as it pertains to wiring your house. You can not use 14 gauge wire on a 20 amp curcuit in your house. In other words you can't install a 20 amp circuit breaker on 14 gauge wire (the circuit with the 15 amp breaker) in your house. That's per the NEC (National Electical Code) As an electrician, I see this a lot, where the breaker is tripping because the homeowner is overloading the circuit, so they just put in a 20 or sometimes a 30 amp circuit breaker and then wonder why the wire is warm and connections burn. But on your train layout you are not using the higher voltage and 14 gauge is fine. You can also find 14 gauge lamp cord (with stranded wire) which is much easier than using romex (which is solid wire). Scott Brown Atlantic Coast S Gaugers Washington & Old Dominion Division

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11683	From: Wayne and Alice Beachy	Date: 2/10/2001
Subject: Scale fire figures

Hi All, Some may remember a few weeks ago when I shared that I had e-mailed Code 3 about making 1/64th scale firefighter figures to go with their 1/64 fire trucks. Well, they are currently on the Code 3 web page. The picture seems to have 6 figures. Unfortunately, it appears that they are ONLY available with a burning building for about $150. If you want to put a burning building on your layout that is fine, but if you only want the figures, as I do, that is a little expensive. I will try to write them back to see if they ever plan to sell the figures separate. Check the Atlantic Coast S Gaugers web page at http://sgauge.homestead.com/acsgindex.html in a few days. I am in the process of updating and adding new pictures. Should be ready to show sometime next week. Finally, we will be at Doug Wilson's house in Newport News Virginia tomorrow afternoon to try to start a Tidewater Division of the ACSG. If you are interested or know someone who is, e-mail me for directions before I leave the house at 10 am. for directions. Wayne Beachy Virginia Central Division Atlantic Coast S Gaugers [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11684	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 2/10/2001
Subject: REBUILDING TRAIN WEBSITE

Many of us on this list have built FREE websites personally and for our local train clubs. The North Penn S Gaugers have tried unsuccessfully for several days to access their website at: http://members.nbci.com/northpenn_s/main.html and after many discussions with NBCi staff may have to abandon dealing with NBCi which used to be www.xoom.com. I have built FREE sites at: http://www.geocities.com/ http://www.homestead.com/ http://www.angelfire.com/ Are there other FREE sites available or how much does www.trainweb.org cost? In this age of .com instability and mergers that bump former accounts, it may be necessary to buy into a dedicated webserver. It seems that www.nbci.com is becoming a search and news database and may be bumping personal accounts. Glenn

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11685	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 2/10/2001
Subject: Layout wiring and transformer voltage

Hi everyone, I'm not going to throw numbers at you about resistance and such but here is a testimonial on wiring. I use size 10 solid copper wire under the bench work to power the loops. I run short leads of size 16 stranded wire up from them every 6 ft. to the rails. I power all accessories from different taps on an old type T transformer. I use a different type T set at 16 v to power the switches. The wire for these is size 14 with size 16 in short runs up to the switches. When I throw a switch it snaps into place instantly. The end result? I can run two locos pulling consists one behind the other on the same loop and the transformer cruises. Nothing slows down anywhere on the loops and I never have to worry about anything. Yep, I have an ammeter in line and can monitor all. The track transformer?....shame...It's a L 275 watt ZW. I never have to run it over 16v. Nothing fancy here, just common sense.... Steve Blackburn, TCA, NASG, RMHR Boise, Idaho [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11686	From: Rick Evans	Date: 2/10/2001
Subject: A simple question on glue......

This is REALLY a simple question, but I wanted to check with all the "experts". The stickers are coming loose on my Franklin's tender,...what glue would be the best to use? I told you it was simple!! Thanks, Rick (I'm glue-clueless) Evans

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11687	From: negative_pitch@hotmail.com	Date: 2/10/2001
Subject: 342AC broken bulb socket mount for headlight

I pulled the boiler front off of my 342AC today to replace the headlight bulb and found that the bracket that holds the headlight socket was broken. Also the spring clip that mounts to the boiler front is loose on one side. One of the cast studs that are staked to retain the spring does not protrude through the spring to allow proper staking. The small amount that did protrude is broken and there is really nothing left to hold the spring in place. Replacement the light socket would require complete removal of the spring. There appears to be enough meet in the boiler front that a blind hole could be drilled and then blind rivits/brads could be driven into the drilled holes. Is there a better way than this? Does anyone know of a feasible repair? Mark

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11688	From: joe messinger	Date: 2/10/2001
Subject: Boiler front/bulb socket fix

Mark, I doubt that collectors would like this but. . . I got tired of fooling with the clip retainers on my 322 boiler front so I removed them, cleaned off two spots on the (inside) shoulder of the B.F. and placed a small drop of solder on each spot. I haven't had a problem with it since. I can still remove/replace the thing without any trouble. If you can't fix your headlight socket, Im sure Doug Peck will have a replacement for your loco. Good luck, Joe M. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11689	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 2/10/2001
Subject: GATS/REPORT

Went to the GATS show in Anahiem........Yawnnnn.......Save the $7.00 to park and the $6.00 to get in .........Mike S. ( MHO)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11690	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 2/10/2001
Subject: New Feature

Anyone else notice that the picture of the "new" MTH Sawmill has it loading 4 boards at the same time. Must be a new MTH feature!! :<) Joe ===== Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,100 part lines American Models ########################## S-Helper Service Official Licensed Dealer for Gilbert Reproductions joestrainrepair@... Master Charge/Visa __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11691	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 2/10/2001
Subject: Re: GATS/REPORT

anormal1@... wrote: > Went to the GATS show in Anahiem........Yawnnnn.......Save the $7.00 to > park and the $6.00 to get in .........Mike S. ( MHO) > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Here in KC we refer to it as Great American Rip-Off

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11692	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 2/10/2001
Subject: GATS

Went to one in Pomona last year it was really a good deal this one just was not worth it .... I knew going in that Flyer was sparse . The one in Pomona at least had a Flyer layout and at least 10-15 flyer vendors this only had about 2 .... oh well they did have a really nice "G" or LBG layout the guys were from Del Oro Nice and made the day OK .......Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11693	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/10/2001
Subject: Re: New Feature

Joe, Don't they call that "bulk" loading?? Maybe that's their solution to the jamming feature I understand the L version has. . . . S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11694	From: busyboy	Date: 2/10/2001
Subject: Ol' Gabe

Whenever someone (Tom Jarcho) says he doesn't believe in repro accessories, look here: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=555979596 Now you understand why, if most of us with paychecks in the reality range want one, it's gonna be a repro. Gabe couldn't have afforded a Gabe! Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11695	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 2/11/2001
Subject: Re: GATS

anormal1@... wrote: > Went to one in Pomona last year it was really a good deal this one just > was not worth it .... I knew going in that Flyer was sparse . The one in > Pomona at least had a Flyer layout and at least 10-15 flyer vendors this only > had about 2 .... oh well they did have a really nice "G" or LBG layout the > guys were from Del Oro Nice and made the day OK .......Mike S. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... AF is abundant at GATS--compared to Scale stuff. If I go, I can expect to find 5-8 dealers, each with a good table of stuff, compared to maybe one dealer with a couple dozen items; and that can include the bigger guys who have some new A-M or S-HS as part of the mobile version of their storefront hobby shop. We do almost as well at the Reardon Center shows [what some call the "wildcat" shows because a local person (Steve and Sherry Stich of Leavenworth) handles the arrangements, etc. in KC Kansas]--every other second-Sunday, such as today.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11696	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 2/11/2001
Subject: Re: GATS/REPORT

You have to pay to park and enter? wow ! It costs money to live in CA! Tom D. ----- Original Message ----- From: <anormal1@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2001 8:56 PM Subject: [S-Trains] GATS/REPORT > Went to the GATS show in Anahiem........Yawnnnn.......Save the $7.00 to > park and the $6.00 to get in .........Mike S. ( MHO) > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11697	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 2/11/2001
Subject: REVERSE IN BOILER 322 INSTRUCTION SHEETS

I have a 322 which I think was made in 1947. It has bellows in the SIT unit, and a reverse unit in the boiler. I have looked but can't seem to find much repair information on the Reverse in Boiler engines. I can not get the reverse to lock into one position. The lever moves back and forth with no effect on the unit. Before I take this engine apart I would like the purchace a diagram of that type of reverse unit. There must be service instructions somewhere, but the books I have on repair do not include this type of unit. Any one wknow where I might be able to purchase these? Any advice on testing or repair would also be appreciated. Michael " The Woodlands Flyer"

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11698	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 2/11/2001
Subject: Dave Ewing

Hi: sorry for taking up the bandwith but if Dave Ewing is still on this list could he contact me directly. I tried e-mailing him back about swapping hirail and scale wheels but the message bounced. thanks

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11699	From: Rick Evans	Date: 2/11/2001
Subject: Parking at GAT shows.....

--- In S-Trains@y..., Thomas@P... wrote: ***(((You have to pay to park and enter? wow ! It costs money to live in CA!))))*** Most of the GAT shows I've been to in Calif. charge for parking, however, I don't believe it's the show itself, just the facility of where the show is being held. I went to one show in Fresno, Calif. where the fairgrounds DIDN'T charge for parking, all the other convention centers and fairgrounds did. Rick (I don't need no stinkin' parking place!) Evans

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11700	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 2/11/2001
Subject: PARKING AT GATS

I just wanted to park not buy the space.......Most other shows I have been to the parking is free or something like $3.00 But $7.00 is a little steep even in So Cal........Mike S

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11701	From: Rick Evans	Date: 2/11/2001
Subject: Re: PARKING AT GATS

--- In S-Trains@y..., anormal1@a... wrote: ***(((I just wanted to park not buy the space.......Most other shows I have been to the parking is free or something like $3.00 But $7.00 is a little steep even in So Cal........Mike S)))*** $7.00 does seem high,...the most I've paid is $5 I believe. Good thing I a least had the $1.00 off coupon for the door!!! Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11702	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 2/11/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, February 11, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11703	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 2/11/2001
Subject: : Re: [S-Trains] GATS/REPORT

>You have to pay to park and enter? wow ! It costs money to live in >CA! >Tom D. Yup. The cost of candles alone can break ya. Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11704	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 2/11/2001
Subject: Tonka Truck - 1:72 but looks good

I uploaded some pictures of a Tonka truck mounted crane. Came with three figures. It cost $2.99. I got it at Scotty's. They used to be a lumber supply till Home Depot forced them to be come a 'odd lots discount place. They were a poor excuse for a lumber store. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/Tonka%20Crane/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11705	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 2/11/2001
Subject: Re: PARKING AT GATS

and $500.00 for an engine isn't steep? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11706	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 2/11/2001
Subject: Re: F-3 blatant commercialism

Our ace web master, Jon Marinello has updated the F-3 webpages with some of Bob Werre's photos. They can be seen at: http://www.showcaseline.com/emdf3s.html and http://www.showcaseline.com/emdf3s_in_stock.html -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New standard flat cars with loads are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/fcwithloads_in_stock.html http://www.showcaseline.com/fc_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11707	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 2/11/2001
Subject: American Flyer .# 8153,8154,8155

I was at a show this weekend in Maryland and saw AF #8153, 54, 55 for sale. I am guessing this is more recent production stuff from Lionel, but was wondering how good it was. I am getting back into S after about 20 years of HO & N, and I see lots of this stuff new in-box, but little info on any of the Flyer related web pages. Is it worth buying, or is it modern crap. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Tom Tom Pennington _---_---_---______--__--___+-----+||] pjpennington@... [||####### B & O #####|______||_____ || __| [][] |__ || When all else is said ||_______________________/ _| B&O |___\_|| and done, take the | ||| | | | | | | / | 4212 | # ||| | train. []|=|==================o=====o==================|=|[] /|-||(0)|=|(0)|=|(O) |_________| (0)|=|(0)|=|(O)||-|\ ============================================================================= [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11708	From: negative_pitch@hotmail.com	Date: 2/11/2001
Subject: Acid Core Solder!!!!!!

I was curious if anyone has seen this before. I have an LTI/AF Baltimore and Ohio PA set. This set has been stored since being manufactured. I noticed some unususal rust and the presence of some white crusty stuff on the chassis frames and on the truck frame chassis. I pulled the unit apart and the wires for the light had been soldered to the trucks with acid core solder. The insides of the truck frames were heavily corroded. Could the factory have done this, or was this the result of repair by someone unfamiliar with acid core's caustic effects? I brushed off the rust with my dremel wire brush. Used a metal prep to hopefully neutralize the acid and arrest the corrosion. I then coated the chassis with Mercury Marin rust inhibitor. (not sure what is really in it, I just had it handy) So does anyone have any suggestions on whether I need to take further action? What are the opinions of whether this was a factory boo boo? Mark

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11709	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 2/11/2001
Subject: Re: F-3 blatant commercialism

Dear Bob, I made my reservations for Hong Kong last night and will arrive on the evening of March 5th to see the production which is supposed to start on Feb 22nd. If all goes well, I am hoping these are all in the container by the end of March and delivery for late April. Boy, it would be nice if these were here for York, but only time will tell. Don RBubeck327@... wrote: > Hello, Don and the SHS gang! > > Pictures of the F-3s look great! Since you raised the topic, when might we > see delivery? Very much looking forward to getting mine, as you can imagine. > > Best regards. > > Bob -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New standard flat cars with loads are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/fcwithloads_in_stock.html http://www.showcaseline.com/fc_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11710	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 2/11/2001
Subject: Re: Acid Core Solder!!!!!!

In a message dated 2/11/01 9:49:32 PM, negative_pitch@... writes: << I have an LTI/AF Baltimore and Ohio PA set. This set has been stored since being manufactured. I noticed some unususal rust and the presence of some white crusty stuff on the chassis frames and on the truck frame chassis.... What are the opinions of whether this was a factory boo boo? Mark >> I have this set for about 8 years and have not noticed the problems that you mentioned. It is a pretty set and it runs well. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11711	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 2/11/2001
Subject: Re: American Flyer .# 8153,8154,8155

In a message dated 2/11/01 9:32:37 PM, pjpennington@... writes: << I was at a show this weekend in Maryland and saw AF #8153, 54, 55 for sale. I am guessing this is more recent production stuff from Lionel, but was wondering how good it was..... Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Tom >> Tom, These are the B&O Alcos made by Lionel (MPC) and were catalogued in 1981 and 83. Although 'recent', they are now 20 years old! They do not have a horn, but they are powered with two motors that are close in design to the original Gilberts -- a plus in my view. As per my other post, I have the complete freight set, which is quite colorful and runs well. The main difference in the motors as compared to New Haven Gilbert is that the fields are double wound and the motors actually powered with DC supplied by small circuit board, which contains both a small rectifier to convert the track-supplied AC and a solid state reverse unit. A caution -- check to see if the powered unit runs before you consummate the purchase because a replacement for the circuit board (the most likely thing to have a problem) is tough to come by if it is defective. Hope this helps. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11712	From: The Reis's	Date: 2/11/2001
Subject: Rex Gondolas and other cheap scale stuff for sale

This is a flagrant attempt to sell off scale items to acquire more high-rail stuff. Rex Low style gondolas: I have 3 of these things all painted primer grey with ACE scale trucks. No couplers. Pretty much bare gondolas. 2 like new, one kind of beat up. First $25 plus $5 postage gets them. Speaking of Ace scale trucks I have 11 sets of them, mostly put together but not all. Unused. First $25 plus $5 postage can have them all. Speaking of oddities: Einhorning engines: I have 5 diesels, 2 A's, 3 B's All have a hump in the back, but not too bad, painted not too great as A/B CNW and A/B/B NYC, 1 A unit is powered by 2 can motors and looks complete, 2 of the B's have trucks, 4 have plastic inner frames, 1 cast metal inner frame. No illusions here!! these have hacked on internally, but look serviceable and the bodies are not that bad. I can send you a digital picture if you have an interest. Any offers for a cheap project???? I have about 50 AM and a number of SHS scale Wheelsets I would be willing to trade for high-rail versions. anyone?? Eric Reis in Dry and Sunny Kenmore, Washington

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11713	From: The Reis's	Date: 2/11/2001
Subject: Re: American Flyer .# 8153,8154,8155

I have seen these sets in the $250-300 range with the 6 cars range. The last one I remember was about 1997. The earlier release in "81 had the "flyer" type motors in the lead A unit. Only one powered. The second release in 1983 had the can motors that lionel used for all of the later "flyer" models. I had the SP Daylight set and The Erie (one of the best looking, green) sets for years (one with each type of motors) and never had trouble with either set. Remember in looking at Lionel/Flyer there are real bargains out there. The items I and others have had have been tough to sell, very tough to get even original price for. eric Kenmore,Wa. -----Original Message----- From: rbubeck327@... [mailto:rbubeck327@...] Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2001 7:20 PM To: pjpennington@...; S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [S-Trains] American Flyer .# 8153,8154,8155 In a message dated 2/11/01 9:32:37 PM, pjpennington@... writes: << I was at a show this weekend in Maryland and saw AF #8153, 54, 55 for sale. I am guessing this is more recent production stuff from Lionel, but was wondering how good it was..... Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Tom >> Tom, These are the B&O Alcos made by Lionel (MPC) and were catalogued in 1981 and 83. Although 'recent', they are now 20 years old! They do not have a horn, but they are powered with two motors that are close in design to the original Gilberts -- a plus in my view. As per my other post, I have the complete freight set, which is quite colorful and runs well. The main difference in the motors as compared to New Haven Gilbert is that the fields are double wound and the motors actually powered with DC supplied by small circuit board, which contains both a small rectifier to convert the track-supplied AC and a solid state reverse unit. A caution -- check to see if the powered unit runs before you consummate the purchase because a replacement for the circuit board (the most likely thing to have a problem) is tough to come by if it is defective. Hope this helps. RB S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11714	From: negative_pitch@hotmail.com	Date: 2/11/2001
Subject: Wanted LTI Chessie GP-20

So does anyone here have (or know someone who does) a nice LTI GP-20 collecting dust that they would like to sell? I don't really want a MIB one. It won't be MIB about 10 minutes after I get it anyway. Thanks, Mark P.S. are there any events coming up in the Oklahoma regional area? I guess there was one in the Dallas/Ft Worth area a few weeks ago, but I was gone on a business trip and missed it.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11715	From: negative_pitch@hotmail.com	Date: 2/11/2001
Subject: Re: American Flyer .# 8153,8154,8155

Marty's trains shows 3 sets in the $490.00 to $550.00 range. A couple of sets sold on e-bay a few weeks ago for just over $400.00. They were both the earlier worm drive sets too. Mark --- In S-Trains@y..., "The Reis's" <finnhill@g...> wrote: > I have seen these sets in the $250-300 range with > the 6 cars range. The last one I remember was > about 1997.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11716	From: negative_pitch@hotmail.com	Date: 2/11/2001
Subject: Re: Acid Core Solder!!!!!!

It does make me wonder what happened as it sure looks like the effects of acid core. There is even an etched in fingerprint of the perpetrator...<G> Mark --- In S-Trains@y..., rbubeck327@a... wrote: > In a message dated 2/11/01 9:49:32 PM, negative_pitch@h... writes: > > << I have an LTI/AF Baltimore and Ohio PA set. This set has been stored > since being manufactured. I noticed some unususal rust and the > presence of some white crusty stuff on the chassis frames and on the > truck frame chassis.... What are the opinions of whether this was a factory > boo boo? > > Mark >> > > I have this set for about 8 years and have not noticed the problems that you > mentioned. It is a pretty set and it runs well. > > RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11717	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/11/2001
Subject: Re: Acid Core Solder!!!!!!

Mark, So go online and search the FBI files for solder vandals! Ya got the fingerprint! It is possible that it is a factory goof, maybe a repair early on, but one would suspect "meddling", how did the solder joints look? factory smooth, or ?? Hopefully you've neutralized the acid! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11718	From: negative_pitch@hotmail.com	Date: 2/11/2001
Subject: Re: Acid Core Solder!!!!!!

The joints were not exactly factory smooth. At least not what I would consider to be factory smooth. I resoldered them, as I didn't think they would hold up to actual use. Plus the wire was not in very good shape either. The wheels look like they had never been run. Makes you wonder why someone would meddle. You know, the FBI probably does have such a file! <G> Mark --- In S-Trains@y..., "David Dewey" <djdewey@c...> wrote: > Mark, > So go online and search the FBI files for solder vandals! Ya got the > fingerprint! > It is possible that it is a factory goof, maybe a repair early on, but > one would suspect "meddling", how did the solder joints look? factory > smooth, or ?? > Hopefully you've neutralized the acid! > S' > David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11719	From: gino restivo	Date: 2/12/2001
Subject: Re: REVERSE IN BOILER 322 INSTRUCTION SHEETS

hi, mike just for evryone's info their is a lot of item's that are not in the original A.F. Factory Service Manual / parts + price catalog sounds like the brass lever is not in contact with the drum , or may be broken or missing it's repair / service is the same as with the later style ( lever down ), reverse unit and wiring can be found on factory service sheet for # 300 atlantic , orig prt # xa-10587-b or a copy of one ; if you don't have the same loco # info you can use one that's close 98% of the time have fun , lots off parts orders to fill.... gino , -----Original Message----- From: kite1@... <kite1@...> To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Date: Sunday, February 11, 2001 11:56 AM Subject: [S-Trains] REVERSE IN BOILER 322 INSTRUCTION SHEETS >I have a 322 which I think was made in 1947. It has bellows in the SIT >unit, and a reverse unit in the boiler. I have looked but can't seem to >find much repair information on the Reverse in Boiler engines. I can >not get the reverse to lock into one position. The lever moves back and >forth with no effect on the unit. Before I take this engine apart I >would like the purchace a diagram of that type of reverse unit. There >must be service instructions somewhere, but the books I have on repair >do not include this type of unit. Any one wknow where I might be able >to purchase these? Any advice on testing or repair would also be >appreciated. Michael " The Woodlands Flyer" > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Shop online without a credit card http://www.rocketcash.com RocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11720	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 2/12/2001
Subject: Re: GATS/REPORT

Watch that! The Clean air boys will be carting you off for polution issues. Better hide them undar a bushel! ----- Original Message ----- From: <eighthmile@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2001 5:25 PM Subject: : Re: [S-Trains] GATS/REPORT > > > > >You have to pay to park and enter? wow ! It costs money to live in > >CA! > >Tom D. > > > Yup. The cost of candles alone can break ya. > > Chuck F. > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11721	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 2/12/2001
Subject: Re: American Flyer .# 8153,8154,8155

In a message dated 2/11/01 11:15:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, finnhill@... writes: << The earlier release in "81 had the "flyer" type motors in the lead A unit. Only one powered. The second release in 1983 had the can motors that Lionel used for all of the later "flyer" models. >> I believe that all 8153-8154-8155s were actually built with Gilbert-style three pole open frame motors. I have never personally observed a stock factory version with can motors (Lionel may have catalogued the set again in 1983 to help 'move' the remaining sets in stock.). I suspect that the info on the can motors in these engines may be due to some Greenberg "confusion". RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11722	From: Rick Evans	Date: 2/12/2001
Subject: Re: PARKING AT GATS

***((((--- In S-Trains@y..., cbtrainnut@a... wrote: and $500.00 for an engine isn't steep?)))*** Well,.....not if it's worth a $1,000.00!!! :-) Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11723	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 2/12/2001
Subject: Connectors

- Greeting`S' - Joe Messinger asked about a source of lil' connectors. I suggest going to a computer swapfest or two. Check out the counters filled with small parts. There are more combinations of pins and sizes in receptacles and plugs than I can imagine finding uses for. A bit of Dumpster diving at the end of the fest may turn up trashed motherboards and power supplies still laden with desirable connectors. Good luck. Cheer`S' Rhett

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11724	From: joe messinger	Date: 2/12/2001
Subject: Powder coat?

I was watching a car show on TV the other night, and they demonstrated a powder coating system by the Eastwood Corp.. Eastwood offers a "do-it-yourself" kit. Comes with everything needed for about $150.00. Colors of powder coat available are many. Gloss, semi-gloss or flat finish. After removing old paint and cleaning the metal, thoroughly, the powder is sprayed on and the item is placed in a 400 degree (electric) oven for 15 minutes. The result is (claimed to be) a nearly indestructible finish. I wonder how that would work on die cast locomotive shells? Would the finish be too heavy and diminish details such as rivets? Would the 400 degree heat cause problems? I've tried several different types of paint for these things and it always chips or rubs off with use. Thought the powder coat -might- be a solution to the problem. Anyone have any experience, theories, or ideas regarding powder coating? Thanks, Joe M. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11725	From: negative_pitch@hotmail.com	Date: 2/12/2001
Subject: Re: American Flyer .# 8153,8154,8155

So does your dummy A unit have pickup shoes for the light or does it depend on wheel contact? Mark --- In S-Trains@y..., rbubeck327@a... wrote: > In a message dated 2/11/01 11:15:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, > finnhill@g... writes: > > << The earlier release in "81 had the "flyer" type motors in the lead A unit. > Only one > powered. The second release in 1983 had the can motors that Lionel used for > all of the later "flyer" models. >> > > I believe that all 8153-8154-8155s were actually built with Gilbert- style > three pole open frame motors. I have never personally observed a stock > factory version with can motors (Lionel may have catalogued the set again in > 1983 to help 'move' the remaining sets in stock.). I suspect that the info > on the can motors in these engines may be due to some Greenberg "confusion". > > RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11726	From: The Reis's	Date: 2/12/2001
Subject: Re: American Flyer .# 8153,8154,8155

I had a set of these with the can motors in them, (bought used in the mid 80's), now they may have been the result of a body swapout with a non-canmotor set. I always figured they ran the "flyer type" motors till they ran out and then went on with can motors from there but who knows. eric -----Original Message----- From: rbubeck327@... [mailto:rbubeck327@...] Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 6:40 AM To: finnhill@...; RBubeck327@...; pjpennington@...; S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [S-Trains] American Flyer .# 8153,8154,8155 In a message dated 2/11/01 11:15:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, finnhill@... writes: << The earlier release in "81 had the "flyer" type motors in the lead A unit. Only one powered. The second release in 1983 had the can motors that Lionel used for all of the later "flyer" models. >> I believe that all 8153-8154-8155s were actually built with Gilbert-style three pole open frame motors. I have never personally observed a stock factory version with can motors (Lionel may have catalogued the set again in 1983 to help 'move' the remaining sets in stock.). I suspect that the info on the can motors in these engines may be due to some Greenberg "confusion". RB S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11727	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 2/12/2001
Subject: AF LTI UNMARKED BOXCAR????

Ant one have any info on an "Unmarked" boxcar The box it came in was a white with red&blue lettering....The end of the box says "unmarked" any Ideas or clues Thanks..........Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11728	From: Peck	Date: 2/12/2001
Subject: Re: California

I hear the latest fad in California for hand-held technology is called a "flashlight"! Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11729	From: Peck	Date: 2/12/2001
Subject: Re: Parts diagrams

<<I have a 322 which I think was made in 1947. It has bellows in the SIT unit, and a reverse unit in the boiler. I have looked but can't seem to find much repair information on the Reverse in Boiler engines. >> There are no exploded views of locomotives during the first couple of years. I believe that is because there were no "local service stations" at the time, so there was no need to produce such service information; everything was repaired at the factory. The schematics came about when repairs began to be handled by AF Service Stations. Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11730	From: david garber	Date: 2/12/2001
Subject: California

doug: I thougth it was candles

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11731	From: SMITTY@tir.com	Date: 2/12/2001
Subject: Re: Powder coat?

--- In S-Trains@y..., "joe messinger" <jmessinger@h...> wrote: > I was watching a car show on TV the other night, and they demonstrated a > powder coating system by the Eastwood Corp.. Eastwood offers a > "do-it-yourself" kit. Comes with everything needed for about $150.00. > Colors of powder coat available are many. Gloss, semi-gloss or flat finish. > > After removing old paint and cleaning the metal, thoroughly, the powder is > sprayed on and the item is placed in a 400 degree (electric) oven for 15 > minutes. The result is (claimed to be) a nearly indestructible finish. > > I wonder how that would work on die cast locomotive shells? Would the > finish be too heavy and diminish details such as rivets? Would the 400 > degree heat cause problems? > > I've tried several different types of paint for these things and it always > chips or rubs off with use. Thought the powder coat -might- be a solution > to the problem. > > Anyone have any experience, theories, or ideas regarding powder coating? > > Thanks, > > Joe M. > __ No experience, just a theory. I would be concerned that there would be internal stresses from the original casting process that would result in unwanted warping when you start to approach the mid-point of the melting temp of zinc-based alloy ( and at 400 deg. F. you're past the half-way mark ). With the shell not being held or stabilized in a secure manner you might end up with something that resembles a Timothy Leary - inspired design ! Some years ago I had a heavyweight observation with the usual downward bent base. I reasoned that if I took the base, put it in a pan of warm water and then clamped it to a board and let it cool, it might get rid of the downward dive. The water went from warm to boiling in the two seconds I wasn't watching and the base turned into the neatest piece of avant garde, free-form art, somewhat like Dali's painting of the watches. The point is, that at 10 minutes into your baking process, all might look well, but at 12 minutes, you've got irreversible problems. Regard"s", Smitty _______________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11732	From: garymccullah@usa.net	Date: 2/12/2001
Subject: Flyer? Metal Cars

I have come into possession of a pair of two-bay hopper cars equipped with AF link couplers/trucks. Did Gilbert ever make such? I also have a metal passenger car w/o trucks. Does anyone know the value of either of these cars? Gary

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11733	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/12/2001
Subject: Pics from the Toy Show!

The LOTS site has a bunch of pictures of the Toy Trade Show last week, here's the URLs to some of the pics that interest us! The main article: http://www.lots-trains.org/articles/chrono/tf2001/index.html Here's a pic of the MTH "Abe the Lamplighter" http://www.lots-trains.org/articles/chrono/tf2001/images/gabe.jpg Nice looking control button. I wonder if this is a prototype or just an AF original? S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11734	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 2/13/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Industrial Rail hopper car

Gentlemen, Industrial Rail is in the process of changing ownership. The product line is promised to continue but the details are not published at this time. If you folks can't find the products locally, we are working with a vendor who has a very large inventory here on the East coast. Will pass on your requests since he does not have a web site at this time. We are very interested in this line since the trolley which was just released, looks real good with an Eagle 1 chassis and our MCB sideframes. The box calls it out at 1:55 scale so, we are getting closer! This unit comes complete with an electronic reverse unit and operating bumpers. Former retail was $ 59.95. Anyone who visited us at West Springfield had an opportunity to view a couple of prototypes. Watch our web site for details. Tom D. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Karnes" <karnesrn@...> To: "S-Scale" <S-Scale@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 6:24 PM Subject: [S-Scale] Industrial Rail hopper car > All -- > > A few months back there was some consternation about the apparent lack > of prototype for the Industrial Rail 4-bay hopper. Well, take a look at > the Feb. 2001 Mainline Modeler magazine. It contains several photos as > well as an S scale drawing of a 4-bay hopper similar to the Industrial > Rail design. It's an N&W class HC-3. > > So, Keith Thompson (west), where can I buy one?? > > Dick Karnes > > > The topic is S Scale please keep your messages 'on-topic'. > To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@... >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11735	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 2/13/2001
Subject: Re: California

Yeh I heard that to. Problem is, they have to ship the spent batteries out of state! Tom D. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peck" <portlines@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 5:15 PM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] California > I hear the latest fad in California for hand-held technology is called a > "flashlight"! > > Doug Peck > Port Lines Hobby Supplies > 6 Storeybrooke Drive > Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 > Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST > 978-465-8798 > 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). > http://www.portlines.com > portlines@... > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11736	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 2/13/2001
Subject: Re: American Flyer .# 8153,8154,8155

In a message dated 2/12/01 3:56:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, finnhill@... writes: << I had a set of these with the can motors in them, (bought used in the mid 80's), now they may have been the result of a body swapout with a non-can motor set. >> Eric, I was interested to read your post. The thing that I find perplexing is that I have never seen a M/OB set of these (of which there were many to observe in the last 18 years) equipped with can motors. As you have, I have seen the occasional used samples equipped that way by a chassis swap, possibly by someone who thought that they might be "improving" the engine by doing so. Other observations, anyone? RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11737	From: Hansen, Bruce x1383	Date: 2/13/2001
Subject: AF questions

I got a box of AF stuff from a friend at work and I have some questions: 1> There is a single track greenish colored bridge. 18" L, 5" W with a small yellow shack w/ red roof. I couldn't find a number on it. Any guesses ? 2> There is a mail car # 718. It has a reddish body and a black metal hook at the door. It looks more like a #918 from the picture that I have available. 3> A 715 car without any load but in very good condition Are these " good" items. Any thoughts on value ? I could probably get the whole box, which is about 10 freight, two cabooses, four switches, the mail car, bridge and some plasticville buildings, for $100. Yes or No ??? Thanks Bruce

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11738	From: Peck	Date: 2/13/2001
Subject: Re: metal cars

<<I have come into possession of a pair of two-bay hopper cars equipped with AF link couplers/trucks. Did Gilbert ever make such? I also have a metal passenger car w/o trucks. Does anyone know the value of either of these cars? >> Sounds like you might have some prewar AF to which someone has mounted postwar trucks. Prewar heavyweight assenger cars were diecast metal. Prewar hoppers were tin........either yellow or red. All had larger sheet-metal trucks with prewar metal link couplers. Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11739	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 2/13/2001
Subject: Re: metal cars

I have a 1946 S gauge set with the metal Virginian (long since repainted)hopper. Peck wrote: > > <<I have come into possession of a pair of two-bay hopper cars equipped > with AF link couplers/trucks. Did Gilbert ever make such? I also > have a metal passenger car w/o trucks. Does anyone know the value of > either of these cars? > >> > Sounds like you might have some prewar AF to which someone has mounted > postwar trucks. > Prewar heavyweight assenger cars were diecast metal. > Prewar hoppers were tin........either yellow or red. > All had larger sheet-metal trucks with prewar metal link couplers. > > Doug Peck > Port Lines Hobby Supplies > 6 Storeybrooke Drive > Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 > Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST > 978-465-8798 > 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). > http://www.portlines.com > portlines@... > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11740	From: Peck	Date: 2/13/2001
Subject: Re: metal cars

<<I have a 1946 S gauge set with the metal Virginian (long since repainted)hopper. >> That's correct too. They also made an LNE diecast hopper in '46. Using up leftover diecast hoppers from the prewar era. Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11741	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 2/13/2001
Subject: Rumor On MTH Coal Loader

The word seems to be (and this is just rumor at this point as MTH as of today still says it is due February 15th) that the MTH Coal Loader will not be out until April--about the time of York. Anyone else hear this? Joe ===== Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,100 part lines American Models ########################## S-Helper Service Official Licensed Dealer for Gilbert Reproductions joestrainrepair@... Master Charge/Visa __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11742	From: kenwoodies@aol.com	Date: 2/13/2001
Subject: Re: MTH Coal Loader

I was told yesterday (Monday Feb. 12) at the Toy Fair in New York by MTH that the coal loader would be out in a week. I also in inquired about S gauge trains and was told "give them a year". Also visited Lionel's booth, which was adjacent to MTH, to look at the four new cars for this year. I found it interesting that the UP hopper had significant dust on the coal load, as if it had been on display for about 2 years.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11743	From: toby_loftus@mentor.com	Date: 2/13/2001
Subject: S-Trax switches and knuckle couplers

Hi all, Just received my first S-Trax switches and they look great! One problem I'm seeing, though, is that several of my knuckle couplers are, at least, scraping the moving tracks, and at worst, getting caught and hung up. Anyone else experience this problem? What solutions do you recommend? Thanks, Toby

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11744	From: Jerry Riechert	Date: 2/13/2001
Subject: noisy Franklin

Well I'm back with another question about my Franklin. How do I quiet down the reverse unit? This thing buzzes worse than my 977 caboose before I put a rectifier in it. Is that an option with the Franklin? Curious minds (mine anyway) want to know. -- Jerry Riechert

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11745	From: neil.trump@bt.com	Date: 2/13/2001
Subject: Broken cast steam chassis mounts

Passing on a fix tip if it helps anyone. I recently picked up a Royal Blue chassis that had both the lower chassis lugs broken. To repair it I cleaned up what was left of the casting so that it was flush with the main chassis. I then drilled a hole each side 1/16" diameter and about 3/16" deep so that I could fit a couple of steel pins, one chassis saved from being scrapped. Neil T.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11746	From: bob.arnott@att.net	Date: 2/13/2001
Subject: (no subject)

Why am I receiving each individual message separately as well as in a group. Before I changed email address I only received the group message. Individual messages fill my mail box. Help!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11747	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 2/13/2001
Subject: Re: Modern era

>G'Day all >Would certainly welcome hearing from any one modelling modern era 80/90's. >regards >Richard Snook >Frankston, AUSTRALIA Yo, Richard! Was just digging through older messages and found your post. I model the present era, or try to. It's very tough to do in S as the two prominent manufacturers, SHS and AM, haven't gotten around to making any freight locos more current than the GP35. But we do try. BTW, anybody know of a good article on converting a GP35 into a GP60, or (dare I hope?) something even newer? Chuck F. California, Land of Politicians and Candles

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11748	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 2/14/2001
Subject: Cheap People

I visited my local Scotty's Discount center again. I gought several more Tonka trucks. They all come with 3 S sized people. I took a 'group shot' and posted it to the s-trains files section. Each truck cost $3. Or another way to look at it is the people are a buck a piece and you get signs, fences, and the trucks for free. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/Tonka%20Crane/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11749	From: busyboy	Date: 2/14/2001
Subject: Re: AF questions

Bruce said: >I could probably get the whole box, which is about 10 freight, two cabooses, four switches, >the mail car, bridge and some plasticville buildings, for $100. Yes or No ??? Holy Smokin' Steamers, Batman. If there were only 2 Plasticville buildings that would total 20 items for $100. That's 5 bucks each for Flyer cars, 5 bucks for Flyer switches, 5 bucks for a Flyer era bridge. Dem's 1960 prices! A hundred bucks for the works. YES! Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11750	From: sgriggs@umich.edu	Date: 2/14/2001
Subject: Re: S-Trax switches and knuckle couplers

My American Models code 148 switches have the same problem. The only solution I'm aware of is to bend the coupler arm on the truck up until there is clearance between the bottom of the weight and the rail head. Similar operating problems can occur when using AF 90 deg crossings. --- In S-Trains@y..., toby_loftus@m... wrote: > Hi all, > > Just received my first S-Trax switches and they look great! One > problem I'm seeing, though, is that several of my knuckle couplers > are, at least, scraping the moving tracks, and at worst, getting > caught and hung up. Anyone else experience this problem? What > solutions do you recommend? > > Thanks, > Toby

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11751	From: Robert Wight	Date: 2/14/2001
Subject: Re: AF questions

I disagree myself. But that is what makes this list so great with the diversity. I think it is way to much. So I would suggest to give me the guys name and address and I'll send him the 100 bucks plus shipping because I'm okay with paying to much. (smiles) Happy Railroading Bob Wight busyboy <busyboy@...> wrote: Bruce said: >I could probably get the whole box, which is about 10 freight, two cabooses, four switches, >the mail car, bridge and some plasticville buildings, for $100. Yes or No ??? Holy Smokin' Steamers, Batman. If there were only 2 Plasticville buildings that would total 20 items for $100. That's 5 bucks each for Flyer cars, 5 bucks for Flyer switches, 5 bucks for a Flyer era bridge. Dem's 1960 prices! A hundred bucks for the works. YES! Chris Zizzo S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? - Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail Personal Address - only $35 a year! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11752	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 2/14/2001
Subject: AF questions

I think $100 for that box of stuff is a fair price -- I don't think it's a bargain. I think that is about what that stuff is worth. Question is, do you want it? Do you want those particular items? Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11753	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 2/14/2001
Subject: Re: S-Trax switches and knuckle couplers

I'm familiar with the problem from AF switches. Are they early AM knuckles, later AM knuckles , Flyer, SHS, or all of the above? I find that some of the early AM will drag and snag on AF switches. Fix, according to AM website, is to bend the actuating tab up. Yes, the plastic will take a bit of a set if you bend it- but not too severe or it breaks. The other brands and later AM do not catch AF switches. To complicate matters I found that some of my metal bodied Lionel Flyer passenger car couplers also dragged and shorted but that was fixed by bending the tongue that holds the coupler. toby_loftus@... wrote: > > Hi all, > > Just received my first S-Trax switches and they look great! One > problem I'm seeing, though, is that several of my knuckle couplers > are, at least, scraping the moving tracks, and at worst, getting > caught and hung up. Anyone else experience this problem? What > solutions do you recommend? > > Thanks, > Toby > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11754	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 2/14/2001
Subject: Re: noisy Franklin

I guess you could put a diode between the coil and one of the tender pickups. It will reduce if not eliminate the buzz. If not eliminated enough then you need a bridge rectifier beyween the coil and both pickups. The other option might be to merely run it on DC. It's a universal motor so likes DC as well as AC. Just be aware that sequence reverse units work, but seem to be a little more prone to stick on DC if they are normally the least bit sticky on AC. Jerry Riechert wrote: > > Well I'm back with another question about my Franklin. How do I quiet > down the reverse unit? This thing buzzes worse than my 977 caboose > before I put a rectifier in it. Is that an option with the Franklin? > Curious minds (mine anyway) want to know. > > -- > Jerry Riechert > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11755	From: Nick and Becky Colleran	Date: 2/14/2001
Subject: B&O PA motors

I bought the B&O PA's new at York within a year of their release. The powered unit eventually died as did the Southern Pacific although one motor in the B&O still "wants" to work. One day when I get lots of time I'll analyze the motors vs. the one-of-a-kind reverse unit only made for the early motors. I returned these to LIonel and the only "fix" was a chassis swap. This cost $200 per PA. However, the can motor chassis of the 1990's is far superior to the early 1980's motor that was similar but not identical to the original Giilbert. The first electronic reverse units are all but impossible to find. I ordered one from Hobby Surplus and they substituted the next generation which goes with the can motor and won't work with these. (They did refund my money, but it is a hassle dealing with folks who do not know what they sell.) I believe the Lionel motors can be made to run with a Dalle reverse by using only one of the double windings in the field. The field, of course, could be rewound if necessary. I, to noticed, corrosion on the chassis which could easily have been caused by acid core solder. I never thought about this before the post here. I just thought the dealer had stored them in a damp spot. The wrong solder would explain the corrosion. BTW - Lionel sent me the wiring diagrams for the early engines if anyone ever needs them. They are hand written. ________________________________________________________________________ >________________________________________________________________________ > >Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 09:58:09 EST > From: rbubeck327@... >Subject: Re: American Flyer .# 8153,8154,8155 > >In a message dated 2/12/01 3:56:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, finnhill@... >writes: > ><< I had a set of these with the can motors in them, (bought used in the mid >80's), now they may have been the result of a body swapout with a non-can >motor set. >> > >Eric, I was interested to read your post. The thing that I find perplexing is >that I have never seen a M/OB set of these (of which there were many to >observe in the last 18 years) equipped with can motors. As you have, I have >seen the occasional used samples equipped that way by a chassis swap, >possibly by someone who thought that they might be "improving" the engine by >doing so. Other observations, anyone? > >RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11756	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 2/14/2001
Subject: Loco Cam & Portable Layout (not mine)

Enjoy two new web pages on S-Trains. Bruce Crosby's Steam Loco Train Cam complete with power converter circuit board. http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/crosby//crosby_cam.html and Richard Nicholls - Portable Layout S-Helper Track based portable layout. AM, SHS and Flyer http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/nicholls/nicholls.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11757	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 2/14/2001
Subject: Lost S-Video

To Jim Sleeth Please contact me via email. The S-Gauge video I mailed to you on Jan 8th was returned to me TODAY. 2/14/01 Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11758	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 2/14/2001
Subject: Smoke for AF Steamers

Just bought an AF #283 steam locomotive and was wondering where I can get the smoke cartridges. Can I use the Lionel stuff or some other, and where can I get it. Thanks. Tom _---_---_---______--__--___+-----+||] [||####### B & O #####|______||_____ || pjpennington@... __| [][] |__ || ||_______________________/ _| B&O |___\_|| | ||| | | | | | | / | 4212 | # ||| | []|=|==================o=====o==================|=|[] /|-||(0)|=|(0)|=|(O) |_________| (0)|=|(0)|=|(O)||-|\ ============================================================================= [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11759	From: neil.trump@bt.com	Date: 2/15/2001
Subject: Latest from MTH

Dear Mr. Trump, The ship date for the Coal Loader has been moved to Late March/Early April. I am sorry for the delay and thank you for your patience. Sincerely, MTH Customer Service

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11760	From: busyboy	Date: 2/15/2001
Subject: Tonka

Paul: The strange thing about these Tonka playsets is that I never saw them as I foraged the major venues like Toys-R-Us and Target. Now they show up in discounters and dollar stores. My wife, bless her co-dependent little soul, cleaned out "Odd-Job", a cheapie discounter, of every Tonka playset and accessory set. If you flip the packages over, you will see all the styles they come in. I don't have everything made, but I have a fair sample. There is a fire truck series, a city service (municipal trucks) series, a construction series, a tree trimming environmental series and a farm series. There is a lot of redundancy, but they put different color uniforms on the people and give them different tools There are also some people and equipment that are totally unique to one set. There are pallets with box loads, sack loads and barrel loads. In the full playset, road sections similar to slot car track are included because one truck is battery powered. This same cab is used in every set with a different back snapped on. Sometimes it's a semi, sometimes a tow truck. There are loads of barricades, street lamps, guardrails and some silly ass trees. The full playsets are about eight bucks. As a test, my wife originally gave me the Fire Truck playset. I saw 1:72 scale on the box. I saw the more toy-like look (certainly not those "Code 1" die-cast scale models) and I rejected it! Then she showed me some of the other styles and I changed my tune. I did a comparison of the trucks with Flyer trailers from the intermodal cars and AM trailers from the spine cars, as well as some toy trucks marketed as 1/64th. These things appear to be right on scale. I don't know where they get that 1:72 stuff (except that the cement mixer truck was a little smallish.) I advise anyone who runs Flyer compatible to go out to your local dollar store, Cheap John's or whatever you have in your neighborhood and look for these things. Even scale guys will get a lot of kit-bashing basics for almost no money. Also, while you're there, check out some semis from "Golden" called "Hot Hauler" and actually labeled as 1/64th. The cabs are die-cast but the trailer is plastic and the top opens like a lid. These come in Pepsi, Mountain Dew and others and ARE NOT Racing Team Trucks, Yay! The price I got them for: $2.99. Can my wife spot a bargain, or what? A little pricier ($7.99) were the Revell Racing trucks, including a non-racing team Crayola Crayon semi. There is a small Nascar 50th Anniversary emblem on the side, so I guess there must be a Binney & Smith sponsored team out there, but this truck will be backed into the loading dock of a little Department 56 elementary school 'cause kids in my little world need lots of crayons! Also nice in this series is the McIlhenny Tabasco Sauce truck, though it is more racing related. Last year, Target stores had some great playsets, including a fantastic intermodal yard set in 1/64th., in their "Cool Toyz" line. These were name brand toys combined into playsets with similarly sized people and accessories and sold at bargain prices especially for the Christmas rush. What a great idea. They had "Cool Toyz" again this year, but not much in our scale. Boo Hoo. That's why this Tonka find was so cool. I will never grow up. Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11761	From: John Foley	Date: 2/15/2001
Subject: Lehigh Valley Models

Hi Folks Their seems to be a rumor floating around that Lehigh Valley Models is out of business. NOT TRUE Frank Titman is still producing his kits and is still in business. So send $2 to LVM for their catalog and see what Frank still produces and sells. Lehigh Valley Models 1225 N. Arch St. Allentown, Pa. 18104 610 423 3909

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11762	From: Victor Bereskin	Date: 2/15/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 912

Running a Flyer 2 step reverse unit on DC is not a good idea. It will work electrically and will reduce the buzz (even more so if you add a capacitor as a filter). However, these units are touchy at the best of times and DC may permanetly magnetize them so that the solenoid puunger never falls after lifting. There are ways to add a return spring to the 4 step unit to overcome this effect, but not with the two step. > Message: 7 > Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 12:44:43 -0500 > From: Chuck Smith <cesmith@...> > Subject: Re: noisy Franklin > > I guess you could put a diode between the coil and one of the tender > pickups. It will reduce if not eliminate the buzz. If not eliminated > enough then you need a bridge rectifier beyween the coil and both > pickups. > The other option might be to merely run it on DC. It's a universal > motor so likes DC as well as AC. Just be aware that sequence reverse > units work, but seem to be a little more prone to stick on DC if they > are normally the least bit sticky on AC. >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11763	From: Dick Kuepper	Date: 2/15/2001
Subject: Never-Heard-Of Item

Everyone needs one of these on their layouts: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=557602713 Enjoy! Dick [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11764	From: Ted R Larson	Date: 2/15/2001
Subject: Southern REX Gon

Thanks to Jeff English for this scan of the prototype for the REX lo-side gondola. http://www.trainweb.org/mhrr/mhrreast/fotos/SOU_56423-400.jpg A very good likeness indeed. And now, for inquiring minds, where is the REX gon currently available for purchase? Ted Larson Hope the rest of you don't get as much SPAM as I so, but if you get some, go to http://spamcop.net/subscribe.shtml ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11765	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 2/15/2001
Subject: Re: S-Trax switches and knuckle couplers

AM's method for dealing with their coupler height/clearance problem is to bend the arm of the release plunger up, which makes the coupler look really cheesy. I prefer to use a 3" disc sander to flatten the bottom of the plunger. If all but 1/32" of the horizontal "bar" is removed, there's plenty of clearance over the rails, and the plunger doesn't look mangled. In Gilbert's instruction books, they specified that the coupler weights (link or knuckle) should be 1/32" from the rail head. If that spec is maintained, there should be no problems negotiating AM or SHS turnouts. Not problems with couplers, anyway. Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11766	From: garymccullah@usa.net	Date: 2/15/2001
Subject: Metal Cars

My thanks to the several people who provided the info on the cars. Would anyone be interested in buying them as I am not a collector? Price would be whatever is fair market value plus shipping. Gary

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11767	From: David	Date: 2/15/2001
Subject: Re: Never-Heard-Of Item

I'm holding out for an Oxymoron myself. In blue if I can find it... :o)~

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11768	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 2/15/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Train Show

WE will be at the other GATS show in the Pittsburg this weekend. Also participating in the greenberg show at Fort Washington this weekend. Will try to promote some S gauge with our T Master. A prototype will be at both shows. these are complete units without side frames. Painted Pennsy of course! Tom D. ----- Original Message ----- From: <Borore@...> To: <S-Scale@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 4:48 PM Subject: [S-Scale] Train Show > Just wanted to let the group know that the Northwest S Scalers > will have out portable layout at the Great American Train Show at the > Expo Center in Portland Or. this weekend. We will be just inside the > main entrance so should get a lot of exposure for S scale. > This is the first showing since the S West show in Idaho and we > have made considerable progress. Although it is still a "work in > progress" I don't think that we will embaress anyone and we should be > able to show some current as well as some not too old equipment. > If you are in the area be sure to stop by and say hello. > Bob > > > The topic is S Scale please keep your messages 'on-topic'. > To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@... > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11769	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 2/16/2001
Subject: Autos

Last night I found a tube of 5 autos at Target by Eastway Plaza in Victor NY for $4.99. The set is a Matchbox "Car Wash" assortment and includes: 56 or 7 Chevie 2 door, 99 Mustang, BMW328i, Mercedes Benz SUV, 50 something Ford pickup. You vintage guys might have a problem with them- in my miniature world I choose to ignore anachronisms like a PRR GG1 parked next to an Amtrak Superliner set. All respectable, even if not exquisite, for use on a layout and at a buck a car they look even better. -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11770	From: Rick Evans	Date: 2/16/2001
Subject: Time flies when yer having fun....!!!

Was checking some of my old saved S-Train posts and found the "WELCOME TO S-TRAINS" email,....dated Feb. 11th, 2000. Wow!! It's been a year since joining! I just wanted to thank everyone for the tips, input, jokes, whatever. It has been a fun year with my new computer and The S-trains list and chat. Looking forward to another great year, (even with David Dewey's jokes), and maybe I shouldn't admit this, but it was some of David's responses to my posts that lead to me thinkin', "This will be a fun group!" Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11771	From: Robert W. Jackson	Date: 2/16/2001
Subject: Metaphore

Well, of course, the guy screwed up! He meant to say Semiwhore. Bob Jackson

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11772	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 2/16/2001
Subject: Part number mystery

Does anyone know the part number for the large (3/4") barrel-style commutator armature that ACG used in the 21130 Hudson? And where did you find that number ? I've looked in the Barker book diagrams, the Complete AF Repair book by K-line, parts catalogs, and can't find it anywhere. Thanks. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11773	From: David	Date: 2/16/2001
Subject: Re: Part number mystery

Dave try XA14B719

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11774	From: Wayne and Alice Beachy	Date: 2/16/2001
Subject: Web Page Update

Hi All, I have done some updating of the Atlantic Coast S Gaugers web pages. There are pictures of Carolinas Division member Rhett George's home layout, pictures of the Carolinas Division layout in the December Greenberg Show in NC, and pictures from the organizational meeting of the new Tidewater Division. To see these pictures go to: http://sgauge.homestead.com/acsgindex.html and then click on the appropriate button. If you are interested in joining one of our now four divisions, starting a division of your own, or having your current club become one of our divisions, contact me for information. Our main goals are to have fun with S Gauge trains and to grow S Gauge with our unique organization. While I have your attention, if any of you have ordered the 2000 ACSG Central Division club car, an American Models C&O/Overnite TOFC, these cars have been delayed by AM. Currently we do not have a delivery date but we are hoping it will be soon now that AM has almost finished the new engines and Budd passenger cars. We do have one car available for sale due to one person inadvertently ordering two cars when he only wanted one. Let me know if you are interested. Keep having fun with S Gauge. Wayne Beachy Virginia Central Division Atlantic Coast S Gaugers [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11775	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 2/16/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, February 18, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11776	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 2/16/2001
Subject: Re: [showcaseline] East Coast Hobby Show

Robin, Mike and I went to The Toy Fair in New York City on Wednesday. I had a meeting with Ertl and then with our builder in the Toy Building on 5th Ave. I was able to show Mike and Robin the old AC Gilbert building as it is on the way. A few years ago you could see where the large round display building used to be located. From there it was off to the Javits Center. I first went to the Lionel booth and saw long time friend and customer (and fellow S gauger) Mike Newcomber. He helped set up the booth and showed us around. We saw the new paint schemes for the Lionel 4 freight cars. I was under the impressions that they were going to lower the prices of the freight cars a bit to be more competitive. I was surprised to the the GN car in Sky Blue with white lettering for $54.95 MSRP as this is a one color paint and print job with no paint masks. I thought the other cars were a better value. They did not display any of the new accessories or at least I was not able to find them. This is a big improvement over last year when they had zip in S gauge, not even the Christmas Car. MTH had both the soon to be released Seaboard coal loader and a Gabe the Lamplighter. I asked one of the booth attendants when delivery of the Seaboard coaling tower could be expected and they said next month. I think I heard that in December, but that is OK, we are hoping to use one on our display layout. When asked about the Gabe, I was told it would be a month or two behind the coalling tower. We will have to see. I again thanked them for there nice line of S scale building and people. As usual, I got that blank stare, but I still appreciate the scale items they make even if only a few of us know about them. We visited a few out friends that we usually see at the other shows and had a great lunch on the corner of 9th and 34th St., across from the post office on the north side is a excellent Chinese restaurant. I guess I am getting ready for March. Don Rocco Passarette wrote: > Don, > > Any comments regarding the Accessory war you might want to share? > > --Rocco-- > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robin Thompson [mailto:robin@...] > Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 3:39 PM > To: showcaseline@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [showcaseline] East Coast Hobby Show > > Dear Steve, > Yes I will. We are at toy fair (as visitors) on Wednesday checking out > the accessories war between Lionel and MTH. Lost > of fun! > Don > > Schwartz family wrote: > > > Don: > > Are youse guys gonna be at the East Coast Hobby Show in March? As I > recall you weren't there last year. Huh, huh, are ya? > > > > Steve > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > showcaseline-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > -- Don Thompson > S Helper Service Inc. > http://www.showcaseline.com > 1.800.465.0303 > New standard flat cars with loads are now shipping! > http://www.showcaseline.com/fcwithloads_in_stock.html > http://www.showcaseline.com/fc_in_stock.html > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > showcaseline-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > showcaseline-unsubscribe@egroups.com -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New standard flat cars with loads are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/fcwithloads_in_stock.html http://www.showcaseline.com/fc_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11777	From: Alex	Date: 2/16/2001
Subject: Re: [showcaseline] East Coast Hobby Show

Hi Don: Your note reminded of the AC Gilbert building visits I used to make as a kid when I lived in the suburbs of NYC and occasionally ventured into Manhattan with a boyhood chum. We'd go to magic equipment stores, photography shops, Radio Row, and the A.C. Gilbert Hall of Science. In those days we got there by hopping a bus for 15 cents, and then the subway for another 15 cents--and we traveled without fear of muggers, people talking to themselves, druggies, etc. There were weirdoes (it was New York City, after all), but they were easy to steer clear of. Can you tell me exactly where the building is located? I occasionally get to NYC and thought it might be fun to go there and reminisce, but I haven't clue as to its location. -- Alex, in Kennebunk, Maine -----Original Message----- From: Robin Thompson [mailto:robin@...] Sent: Friday, February 16, 2001 8:26 PM To: showcaseline@yahoogroups.com; S Train Subject: [S-Trains] Re: [showcaseline] East Coast Hobby Show Robin, Mike and I went to The Toy Fair in New York City on Wednesday. I had a meeting with Ertl and then with our builder in the Toy Building on ......

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11778	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 2/16/2001
Subject: Super armature

Found it listed in TripleS parts print out as XA14B816 Super Armature for 21129/30 and 21139/40. Thanks for those who helped. Anyone buy the new TripleS catalog/reference book for $15? -------------------------- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld (www.BlackBerry.net) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11779	From: gino restivo	Date: 2/16/2001
Subject: Re: Part number mystery Uncovered

form # 1805 ,Feb.1-1957 # 326 GOES TO " " 1805, -21129 REVISED OCT.1,1962 for # 21129 / 21130 solid - split chassis 1958 - 1962 diagram # 42 - part # xa14b816 ACG co. service manual , parts catalog and price list new haven 6, conn ., usa * you can use one from franklin loco( pg. 75 ), my notes' reflect it won't run as good .....# PA14B719 if you need one rewound contact bob hannon at HANNON@... , -----Original Message----- From: david_horn@... <david_horn@...> To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Date: Friday, February 16, 2001 5:49 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Part number mystery >Does anyone know the part number for the large (3/4") barrel-style >commutator armature that ACG used in the 21130 Hudson? And where did you >find that number ? I've looked in the Barker book diagrams, the Complete AF >Repair book by K-line, parts catalogs, and can't find it anywhere. Thanks. > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Shop online without a credit card http://www.rocketcash.com RocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11780	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 2/16/2001
Subject: Re: [showcaseline] East Coast Hobby Show

Don T. wrote: >We saw the new paint schemes for the Lionel 4 freight cars. I was >under the impressions that they were going to lower the prices of >the freight >cars a bit to be more competitive. I was surprised to the the GN >car in Sky >Blue with white lettering for $54.95 MSRP as this is a one color >paint and >print job with no paint masks. I thought the other cars were a >better value... >This is a big improvement over last year when they >had zip in S >gauge, not even the Christmas Car. I dunno if it's a big improvement or not, Don. So Lionel has promised to crank out another token run of overpriced reissues, guaranteed to reduce most S gaugers to fits of yawning. If they actually produce these items (which are likely to move slowly at such prices), they'll just be furnishing themselves with more "evidence" that "AF doesn't sell." I wonder how Mike N. can stand it. As for myself, I gave up on Lionel/AF long ago. Been much happier ever since. There's too much other new stuff to buy anyway, made by that other company...uh, what do they call themselves? Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11781	From: rrusso4438@aol.com	Date: 2/17/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 914

I came upon an american flyer building which I am not familiar with .It's a wood type lite building with the name Golden grain elevator company.Can anyone give me info on this?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11782	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 2/17/2001
Subject: Re: PARKING AT GATS

Rick Evans wrote: > --- In S-Trains@y..., anormal1@a... wrote: > ***(((I just wanted to park not buy the space.......Most other > shows I have been to the parking is free or something like $3.00 > But $7.00 is a little steep even in So Cal........Mike S)))*** > > $7.00 does seem high,...the most I've paid is $5 I believe. Good > thing I a least had the $1.00 off coupon for the door!!! > > Rick. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Kansas City: usually charges $5 or $6 to get in the door, plus another 5/6 for parking outside, the later would be the domain of the city-owned facility, some of the adjacent lots are privately owned/operated. I've pretty well written it off anyway, seems like enough S scale to make it worthwhile comes up about once every 5 years. I think sometimes the NMRA meets give better results. DJE

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11783	From: kasemu@neosoft.com	Date: 2/17/2001
Subject: 21004 AF Engine

Restoring a 21004 Engine. Having a bear of a time trying to locate the crosshead guides/crosshead assemblies which are missing ( not exactly sure what the part numbers are. I have contacted folks such as Triple S, RFG, Portlines & Leventon with no luck. Any Suggestions, Advice, Help appreciated.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11784	From: n3jpu@erols.com	Date: 2/17/2001
Subject: Will a stock AF engine run on DC?

Will a stock AF engine run on DC? I thought I read somewhere the series wound motors will work fine.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11785	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 2/17/2001
Subject: Re: Will a stock AF engine run on DC?

A stock Flyer will run fine on DC. I think reverse units which are a little sticky tend to stick a little more on DC. A well operating reverse unit will not stick. No other problems because the series wound motors are really AC & DC. n3jpu@... wrote: > > Will a stock AF engine run on DC? I thought I read somewhere the > series wound motors will work fine. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11786	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 2/18/2001
Subject: Golden Grain Elevator

The "Golden Grain Elevator Company" building was Gilbert # 165, made by Mini-craft for Gilbert in 1953. Roger Delthony

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11787	From: Dick Kuepper	Date: 2/18/2001
Subject: Paint Spots on P'ville

I bought some old P'ville that has some green paint spots. I don't know what kind of paint it is. Anyone have success in removing paint w/o harming plastic? Thanks. Dick [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11788	From: gino restivo	Date: 2/18/2001
Subject: Re: 21004 . / parts #

crosshead assmbly # xa-14a382 - L & R , is the correct part you might want to contact HOBBY SURPLUS SALES for their REPAIRMAN KIT / GUIDE 1-860-223-0600 www.hobbysurplus.com ask if it is copy of service manual sheets ? got mine at the ballroom before york years ago some one should have the parts you need , have fun , GSR -----Original Message----- From: kasemu@... <kasemu@...> To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Date: Saturday, February 17, 2001 4:28 PM Subject: [S-Trains] 21004 AF Engine >Restoring a 21004 Engine. Having a bear of a time trying to locate >the crosshead guides/crosshead assemblies which are missing ( not >exactly sure what the part numbers are. I have contacted folks such >as Triple S, RFG, Portlines & Leventon with no luck. Any >Suggestions, Advice, Help appreciated. > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Shop online without a credit card http://www.rocketcash.com RocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11789	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 2/18/2001
Subject: Paint spots on P'ville

First make sure they are not water based kiddie paint and plain water and dish detergent mon't dissolve them. Three things that remove paint from plastic: 1. Soaking in a strong mixture of water and a detergent such as Mr. Clean or Top Job. 2. Brake fluid. 3. Paint remover for plastic, from your hobby store. These soften paint. Then scrub with an old toothbrush to remove the paint. Always test on an inconspicuous place such as the inside of a structure to make sure damage to plastic won't occur, before using a chemical like #2 or #3. Mr. Clean is most gentle. Paint remover for plastic is quickest. Brake fluid is cheap. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11790	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 2/18/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, February 18, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11791	From: Ted R Larson	Date: 2/18/2001
Subject: Fw: Re: Fw: Re: REX Gons

--------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Russell Mobley" Box Car Red -----Russ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ted R Larson" <mhrreast@...> To: <etuson@...>; <lg-prrr@...> Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2001 12:24 PM Subject: Re: Fw: Re: REX Gons > Great to have you guys as resources. > Now, do you know the color of the SOU gons? > Can't tell from b&w photos. > Ted > ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11792	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 2/19/2001
Subject: Re: [S trains] Digest Number 916

The best show in town Is the Denver TCA (Rocky Mountain Division). A 2 day show $5.00 tables plenty of free parking, including campers. At the Holiday inn I-70 and Chambers road. Check your TCA news for the next show. Tables for TCA members only. Public is welcome. Jerry 77-11644 ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11793	From: Scott Brown	Date: 2/19/2001
Subject: Re: Hobby Surplus

Just so you know, the Hobby Surplus Repairman's Kit sells you the K-Line Service Manual and some parts. Don't know which parts. So if you have the K-Line book, don't waste your money on the kit. Just get their free catalogue so you know what their part numbering system is. Scott Brown Atlantic Coast S Gaugers Washington & Old Dominion Division

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11794	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 2/19/2001
Subject: S GAUGE BY WEAVER

I just logged onto the Greenberg Train Shows website for the show in Pennsauken, NJ. They list an operating layout called S Gauge by Weaver featuring S Gauge trains. Have any of you seen this? Is it Hi-Rail, Scale or American Flyer? It is labeled a 6' x 12' scenic layout. They also list the South Jersey S Scalers. Did the "Black Sheep" borrow your old name or hasn't Greenberg updated you to South Jersey S Gaugers? Our modular layout worked great at Greenberg Train Show, Fort Washington, PA this past weekend but attendance was probably less than 4,000 for two days. Many dealers were hurting. Staying on the NPSG branceline of NASG track, Glenn

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11795	From: johnbraker@webtv.net	Date: 2/19/2001
Subject: mystic talking station # ?'s

Recently acquired a mystic station and have many questions about it. First how can we determine which catalog number it is.It has a green textured roof.Red and white sides and trim.A two tone grey base.With black metal signs on ends of roof stamped MYSTIC in white letters. Wires appear two be either rubber coated or very soft enamel. We found a partially legible number stamped in blue on the underneath 3-??-50 Has a newer style control button.And came with two #599 records.(Can these be original or replacements?) We are also in need of reproducer,horn and needles.Any ideas on where these might be found?? As always any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks, John Braker

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11796	From: Rick Evans	Date: 2/19/2001
Subject: Fun with trains on a rainy Calif. day.......

Just wanted to share with you (and hopefully not bore you!), some fun that my five year old daughter and I had on this wet day here on the central coast of California. I bumped around some furniture in the den, vacuumed good, and then we started laying down some track, circling around the fireplace and on the other end of this mis-shaped 14' long dog-bone, circling around the coffee table. Broke out the ERTL Cow Town and a farm set, and finally let my daughter get a chance to play with her Casey Jones, with a 802 Reefer, a 938 Caboose, and a 931 gondola that I threw together for one of her Christmas presents. I was pretty excited about the 931, not that it is anything special, However, it has never been on a track! Pulled it outta the box and un-wrapped it from the old yellow paper. Explained to my daughter that this has NEVER been run and is very old, "As old as dad!" (the 931 was put out in '53-'55) Of course that didn't mean doodaly-squat to her, but I had a moment! Had fresh batteries in the train clock, so every hour it whoo-whooed and chugged, and put on an old album (you know, a record!)... titled "SUNDAY ONLY", A MEMORABLE TRIBUTE TO THE FAMOUS STEAM LOCOMOTIVES OF THE BURLINGTON ROUTE,...recorded in the late 50's and early 60's. While we are loading cattle and horses onto the train, the UPS man stopped by with....MORE train stuff!! Just a couple of Frontier #20 coaches that I got off ebay. Can it get any better then this? We did take a little TV break while having our pizza, then back to the trains before I had to take the little one back to her mom's. A fine end to my week with my daughter. Of course I won't be pulling up track yet, it's been too cold out in my garage to play with my little layout, so I will have some fun for a day or two!! Hope everyone had a good weekend. Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11797	From: gino restivo	Date: 2/19/2001
Subject: re; sound reproducer

you might find one as a original item , 20 people or more have asked me for this part the last 2 years have not completed this part , it has been a tough one to make if the weight is not right it carves up the record or not enough sound , but it will be done sometime .... gino / gsr [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11798	From: gino restivo	Date: 2/19/2001
Subject: re; hobby surplus , service parts list

when contacting HOBBY SURPLUS , please ask for a set of service manual / station copies . if still available they cover all steam / diesel loco,oper cars,access, and most trans . you get slot car's or ' HO ' items if they dont have it ask if they can copy one for you ? or will they have it in near future I will send e-mail to HOBBY SURPLUS and ask for one also ,or when will they have them again [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11799	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/19/2001
Subject: MTH Coal Loader, latest ship date

HI all, this is from the MTH web site: 3-15-01 Hmm, they're still listing the year! ;-) Here's a few more dates, for whatever they're worth! No. 600 Crossing Gate 30-9118 shipping 6/15/2001 No. 787 Log Loader 30-9119 shipping 7/15/2001 Lamplighter 30-9120 shipping 4/15/2001 No. 23796 Sawmill 30-9122 Shipping 8/15/2001 S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11800	From: Bob	Date: 2/20/2001
Subject: Pulling Power.........

Dear Group, I just wanted some input from anyone who might have or know about these two engines.I am interested in buying a Balwin switcher for my layout.I like the one by S.H.S. and A.M. My question is which do you think has more pulling power?I have a A.F. trestle set that it must climb. I already got few responses,but I'd just thought I'd see what "the panel" thinks.Please e-mail me or post any and all comments. "S"incerely..........Bob

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11801	From: Trbngs@cs.com	Date: 2/20/2001
Subject: ATLAS "S" snap-track ??

Going through some old Model Railroader's, I found a March 1957 ATLAS ad for their "S"-gauge snap-track which was discribed as American Flyer compatable. Anyone know of this or used it? I would like to write an article about it for our IESGAPN newsletter. Thanks, Tom Bangs

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11802	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 2/20/2001
Subject: Re: ATLAS "S" snap-track ??

Dear Tom, I have two sections, a straight and curved that were test shots from the original tooling. I do not think they ever produced this track. I also have a box of Atlas "S" scale code 125 rail joiners that I found some time ago. Don T. Trbngs@... wrote: > Going through some old Model Railroader's, I found a March 1957 ATLAS > ad for their "S"-gauge snap-track which was discribed as American > Flyer compatable. Anyone know of this or used it? I would like to > write an article about it for our IESGAPN newsletter. > > Thanks, Tom Bangs > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New standard flat cars with loads are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/fcwithloads_in_stock.html http://www.showcaseline.com/fc_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11803	From: Scott Holm	Date: 2/20/2001
Subject: Re: MTH Coal Loader, latest ship date

--- David Dewey <djdewey@...> wrote: > HI all, this is from the MTH web site: 3-15-01 > Hmm, they're still listing the year! ;-) > Here's a few more dates, for whatever they're worth! Apparently they aren't worth anything since their customer service already told Neil that the coal loader was going to be late March or early April. They're already planning on missing the 3/15 date! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11804	From: M.McConnell	Date: 2/20/2001
Subject: Notes on Greenberg Show

>Message: 3 >Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 18:10:32 -0500 >From: Glenn Ritter <gartrain@...> >Subject: S GAUGE BY WEAVER >I just logged onto the Greenberg Train Shows >website for the show in Pennsauken, NJ. >They list an operating layout called >S Gauge by Weaver featuring S Gauge >trains. Have any of you seen this? >Is it Hi-Rail, Scale or American Flyer? >It is labeled a 6' x 12' scenic layout. I have not seen this layout before at Greenberg. I'll see what I can find out at the March 3rd show and let you know. >They also list the South Jersey S Scalers. >Did the "Black Sheep" borrow your >old name or hasn't Greenberg updated >you to South Jersey S Gaugers? They have not updated the name on the advertisement to S Gaugers yet. I'll make sure we send in another note. Up until this show, our 10x20 sectional layout was the only S-Gauge layout there. It will be nice to have company! If anyone is in the area on March 3, 4 stop in and pay us a visit. The show runs 10-3 Sat and Sun. Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11805	From: John Foley	Date: 2/20/2001
Subject: NASG Convention Hotels

Hi Folks I just want to straighten out a rumor I keep hearing. It is true that the Radisson Lackawanna Station Hotel is Full, This is the main convention hotel, But we have made arrangements with 4 other hotels. The Clarion is less than a mile away and the comfort suites and the Hampton are about 11/2 miles away. This shouldn't be a problem as we will have transportation between all the NASG hotels and Steamtown. Please go to our website for full info. http://trainweb.org/steamtown2001/ John Foley

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11806	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 2/20/2001
Subject: Re: Fun with trains on a rainy Calif. day.......

Rick Evans wrote: > Just wanted to share with you (and hopefully not bore you!), some fun > that my five year old daughter and I had on this wet day here on the > central coast of California. > > I bumped around some furniture in the den, vacuumed good, and then we > started laying down some track, circling around the fireplace and on > the other end of this mis-shaped 14' long dog-bone, circling around > the coffee table. > > Broke out the ERTL Cow Town and a farm set, and finally let my > daughter get a chance to play with her Casey Jones, with a 802 > Reefer, a 938 Caboose, and a 931 gondola that I threw together for > one of her Christmas presents. I was pretty excited about the 931, > not that it is anything special, However, it has never been on a > track! Pulled it outta the box and un-wrapped it from the old yellow > paper. Explained to my daughter that this has NEVER been run and is > very old, "As old as dad!" (the 931 was put out in '53-'55) Of course > that didn't mean doodaly-squat to her, but I had a moment! > > Had fresh batteries in the train clock, so every hour it whoo-whooed > and chugged, and put on an old album (you know, a record!)... > titled "SUNDAY ONLY", A MEMORABLE TRIBUTE TO THE FAMOUS STEAM > LOCOMOTIVES OF THE BURLINGTON ROUTE,...recorded in the late 50's and > early 60's. > > While we are loading cattle and horses onto the train, the UPS man > stopped by with....MORE train stuff!! Just a couple of Frontier #20 > coaches that I got off ebay. Can it get any better then this? > > We did take a little TV break while having our pizza, then back to > the trains before I had to take the little one back to her mom's. A > fine end to my week with my daughter. > > Of course I won't be pulling up track yet, it's been too cold out in > my garage to play with my little layout, so I will have some fun for > a day or two!! > > Hope everyone had a good weekend. > > Rick. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... When my older son was 3, in 1977, we were down by the KCS yard when he saw one of those green Canadian Pacific boxcars with the black semicircle and white triangle on one end. You guessed it, just like happened many times elsewhere: "Hey Daddy, there's a PAC-MAN TRAIN"

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11807	From: not2lance@yahoo.com	Date: 2/20/2001
Subject: Ace Trucks

Can anyone tell me who sells Ace trucks? Thanks Lance McCold

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11808	From: gino restivo	Date: 2/20/2001
Subject: RE; A.F. exploded views / part list etc ....

Hi , to all ... got a fast return e-mail from Peter Amato Manager , " HOBBY SURPLUS " it is the second item listed on this page at our website http:// www.hobbysurplus.com/repairbooks.asp this is the loose leaf style set you bought years ago , still available for $ 19.95 and listed in our catalog . also mentioned you dont get any parts, but discount coupons for your next 3 purchase of parts ...... THANKS Peter Amato for your help , Gino ps. note _ on a prior msg dated 2-19-01 10:28 pm is a mistake on my typing _ please note 2nd paragraph 1 st line to read .... " you DON'T get slot cars or " HO items , sorry , gino [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11809	From: gino restivo	Date: 2/20/2001
Subject: re ; a.f. service info ,

just checked on info rec as to hobby surplus exploded views and saw Tom Barkers repair manual ..... did some one ask where they could get one from a few weeks ago ? if so go to www.hobbysurplus.com/repairbooks.asp and scroll down page to 3 rd item . see ya ., gsr [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11810	From: Rick Evans	Date: 2/21/2001
Subject: Private seller/buyer feedback on ebay...????

I was just checking some Flyer on ebay and clicked on a item,...Where the seller's feedback number should be...it said "Private"!!! You have to email the seller to get his feedback ratings!! Whats up with that?? Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11811	From: Rick Evans	Date: 2/21/2001
Subject: Re: Private seller/buyer feedback on ebay...????

Ok,...sorry, I guess it pays to read the whole thing before getting excited!! When you click on "private", you can get the seller's feedback numbers, you just can't read the comments. Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11812	From: Alex Sibbald	Date: 2/21/2001
Subject: 312AC Steam Locomotive

Hi anyone, I have an American Flyer 312AC steam locomotive which lately is making clicking noises when running forward and it seems to be trying to go into reverse by itself. Is this a sign of approaching doom or does anyone know of a fast cure. I am using an 8b transformer and up until now the engine has worked fine. Thanks alot, Alex

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11813	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 2/21/2001
Subject: Re: Ace Trucks

not2lance@... wrote: > Can anyone tell me who sells Ace trucks? > > Thanks > > Lance McCold > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ I doubt they are available new, I do not remember anyone taking over operating the Ace line of many, many zamak parts after Walter Graeff passed on. However, there rare quite a few that would be out there as parts and components of cars that would come up as a result of some of us thinning out our rosters. DJE

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11814	From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade	Date: 2/21/2001
Subject: Re: Ace Trucks

ironhors@... wrote: > > not2lance@... wrote: > > > Can anyone tell me who sells Ace trucks? > > > > Thanks > > > > Lance McCold > > > I doubt they are available new, I do not remember anyone taking over operating > the Ace line of many, many zamak parts after Walter Graeff passed on. However, > there rare quite a few that would be out there as parts and components of cars > that would come up as a result of some of us thinning out our rosters. DJE They are not that rare. Downs Model Railroad took over the line and kept them going until he sold out last year to a company named Manheim. Trying to contact them about the line. We still have some of the roller bearing and bettendorf trucks in stock with scale wheels. Take care, Bill -- =============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11815	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 2/21/2001
Subject: Re: 312AC Steam Locomotive

Can you tell if the noises are coming from the reverse unit? Sounds like it could be poor contact through dirty tender pickup wheels or track. If so cleaning track and/or the wheels should eliminate the problem. If not, there might be a loose wire connection. One clue track /wheels are dirty is some visible arcing at the pickup wheels. Alex Sibbald wrote: > > Hi anyone, > > I have an American Flyer 312AC steam locomotive which lately is making > clicking noises when running forward and it seems to be trying to go > into reverse by itself. Is this a sign of approaching doom or does > anyone know of a fast cure. I am using an 8b transformer and up until > now the engine has worked fine. > > Thanks alot, > > Alex > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11816	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 2/21/2001
Subject: FREE TRAIN WEBSITES

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ This note was at the end of yesterdays list. Free Yahoo, Geocities, NBCi, Angelfire & Homestead sites may cut back on services. We will have to be alert as to how to rebuild our FREE sites. The industry seems to be changing fast. We lost our North Penn website after 3 years on XOOM and then NBCi. Staying on the NPSG branchline of NASG track, Glenn

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11817	From: Clay Buckage	Date: 2/21/2001
Subject: fall s-fest

Does anyone have the dates for the Fall S-Fest 2001? thnx Clay "Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men???" "The Shadow Knows!" Clay Buckage Dave's Twacks & Twains Box 388 Tatamy, Pa. 18085 clay@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11818	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 2/21/2001
Subject: Smitty

Oh so he's up there pacing back and forth while on his break, all this time I've thought he was checking the brakes. LOL http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1115038309 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11819	From: paul gibson	Date: 2/21/2001
Subject: Railpub price list

The February 15 price list (#88) has been posted to our website. Click on this link to go directly to the site: http://www.railpub.com Among the items this month are back issues of Classic Toy Trains, S Gaugian, NASG Dispatch, Train Collector's Quarterly, and early issues of Model Builder and Modelmaker. This is in addition to our regular offering of back issues from over 125 rail related magazines titles, and hundreds of books on rail, logging, mining, steel/iron, marine and industrial subjects. Thanks for taking a look. Paul Gibson [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11820	From: joe messinger	Date: 2/21/2001
Subject: Water Tenders & Torpedoes

Has anyone ever offered a water tender for S gauge? Is there much interest in them? In the area I live, (W.Va.) water tenders were used quite allot by N&W and B&O. I see LTI offers them in their catalog. Just wondered if S-Helper or Williams might consider water tenders for "S". Also, anyone remember, or ever heard of "torpedoes" being used on the R.R.? In the days before (perhaps during) trains were radio equipped, torpedoes were used to signal the train crew as to danger ahead, whether to stop or not at the next station and so on. Torpedoes were small explosive charges that were placed on the track and would detonate when the locomotive's wheels ran over them. They were about the size of a silver dollar and 3/4" thick. The charge was attached to lead straps that were wrapped around the rail. The number of torpedoes that were placed, in sequence, signified the message. I never knew the number code. As a young boy in the early 1950's, I can remember hearing the torpedoes "BANG" as the locomotives rolled over them. I would walk the tracks, occasionally, and gather up some of the lead straps from the spent torpedoes. Used them to make fishing sinkers. Just remembering my days of youth, I guess. Thought you might be interested. Joe Messinger _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11821	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 2/21/2001
Subject: 312AC

If the clicking noise is coming from the drive wheels, and they seem to be jamming, then one of them is probably loose from its axle. If so, check the archives -- we came up with at least 7 different methods for ifxing this problem, starting about 1/14/01. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11822	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 2/21/2001
Subject: Re: Ace Trucks

Gentlemen, Merlin gave his E Mail address to contact him mmttrains@... I lost the first one he gave me. I didn't check to see that it works, so here's his other address & phone: 1-717-295-4966 MM & T Inc 139 Nevin Street Lancaster, Pa 17603 Tom D. ----- Original Message ----- From: "B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade" <wadepub@...> To: <ironhors@...> Cc: <not2lance@...>; <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 7:38 AM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Ace Trucks > ironhors@... wrote: > > > > not2lance@... wrote: > > > > > Can anyone tell me who sells Ace trucks? > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Lance McCold > > > > > I doubt they are available new, I do not remember anyone taking over operating > > the Ace line of many, many zamak parts after Walter Graeff passed on. However, > > there rare quite a few that would be out there as parts and components of cars > > that would come up as a result of some of us thinning out our rosters. DJE > > They are not that rare. Downs Model Railroad took over the line and kept > them going until he sold out last year to a company named Manheim. > Trying to contact them about the line. We still have some of the roller > bearing and bettendorf trucks in stock with scale wheels. > > Take care, > Bill > -- > =============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ > Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer > Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 > B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com > S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com > Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11823	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 2/21/2001
Subject: NP 491

Anyone hav a NP 491 "B" unit for sale????.......Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11824	From: Ktrdd@AOL.com	Date: 2/21/2001
Subject: Re: Water Tenders & Torpedoes

Hi There, Here's a story for you on torpedoes. A former coworker of mine told me this 20 years ago. He had been a "Mudhopper" for the Pennsy railroad at the Chicago yards in the mid 50s--pretty young I suppose. He got his hands on rail torpedoes and joked about how he put those on streetcar rail lines in the city for a joke. He laughed and explained how "you should have seen those streetcars rock and seen the look on the motorman's face!" I guess you couldn't say that was funny, but it is a hell of a story about the failings of youth? Definitely a JD tale. JohnR

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11825	From: Dan Brindell	Date: 2/21/2001
Subject: Re: Water Tenders & Torpedoes

My uncle was a brakeman on the Lehigh Valley and I remember him talking about torpedoes. I had forgotten what they were called, but now that you mention it, I remember. He even showed me a couple of them when I was about 12 y.o., but he wouldn't give me any. Probably a smart move on his part. I also remember him talking about picking up train orders or messages that were "hooped up" and he would pick them up by sticking his arm through the hoop while the train was moving. I've never seen an operating accessory in any scale that depicted this, I wonder if anybody ever made one? Fascinating, isn't it, what they had to do to communicate in the days before radios? Everything is so much easier for us today. Dan Brindell -----Original Message----- From: joe messinger <jmessinger@...> To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Date: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 12:52 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Water Tenders & Torpedoes >Has anyone ever offered a water tender for S gauge? Is there much interest >in them? > >In the area I live, (W.Va.) water tenders were used quite allot by N&W and >B&O. I see LTI offers them in their catalog. Just wondered if S-Helper or >Williams might consider water tenders for "S". > >Also, anyone remember, or ever heard of "torpedoes" being used on the R.R.? >In the days before (perhaps during) trains were radio equipped, torpedoes >were used to signal the train crew as to danger ahead, whether to stop or >not at the next station and so on. Torpedoes were small explosive charges >that were placed on the track and would detonate when the locomotive's >wheels ran over them. They were about the size of a silver dollar and 3/4" >thick. The charge was attached to lead straps that were wrapped around the >rail. The number of torpedoes that were placed, in sequence, signified the >message. I never knew the number code. > >As a young boy in the early 1950's, I can remember hearing the torpedoes >"BANG" as the locomotives rolled over them. I would walk the tracks, >occasionally, and gather up some of the lead straps from the spent >torpedoes. Used them to make fishing sinkers. > >Just remembering my days of youth, I guess. Thought you might be >interested. > >Joe Messinger > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11826	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 2/21/2001
Subject: Lehigh Valley Models

I uploaded Lehigh Valley Models catalog to the web. If you place an order be sure and mention you saw it on the web. http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/lvm/lvm.html -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://S-Trains.com (alt e-mail PaulYorke@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11827	From: John Foley	Date: 2/21/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Lehigh Valley Models

Hi Paul That's very good of you to do this. Thanks John Foley At 09:36 PM 2/21/01 -0500, Paul Yorke wrote: >I uploaded Lehigh Valley Models catalog to the web. If you place an >order be sure and mention you saw it on the web. > >http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/lvm/lvm.html > >-- >Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. >American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers >http://S-Trains.com (alt e-mail PaulYorke@...) > > > >The topic is S Scale please keep your messages 'on-topic'. >To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11828	From: Dennis Conway	Date: 2/21/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Lehigh Valley Models

Wonderful, Paul!! Thanks very much. Dennis Conway Los Angeles ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Yorke To: s-trains@yahoogroups.com ; s-scale@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 6:36 PM Subject: [S-Scale] Lehigh Valley Models I uploaded Lehigh Valley Models catalog to the web. If you place an order be sure and mention you saw it on the web. http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/lvm/lvm.html -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://S-Trains.com (alt e-mail PaulYorke@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11829	From: busyboy	Date: 2/21/2001
Subject: Re: 312AC Steam Locomotive

Alex Sibbald wrote: >I have an American Flyer 312AC steam locomotive which lately is making >clicking noises when running forward and it seems to be trying to go >into reverse by itself. Is this a sign of approaching doom or does >anyone know of a fast cure. I am using an 8b transformer and up until >now the engine has worked fine. Alex: The clicking is the partial disengaging and rapid re-engaging of the powered solenoid in the tender. This is probably due to dirt. Clean the wheels, the pickups and the track and try again. If it still does it, there could be a loose solder joint on a wire from one of the tender trucks to the coil. Clicking is not indicative of a bad unit, worn fingers, damaged or dirty drum, or poor wiring from the unit to the engine. It is strictly an intermittant connection between transformer and reverse unit coil. Find and fix that and the clicking will stop. If you do open it up, a thorough cleaning and inspection can't hurt. It's called opportunistic mainenance. Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11830	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 2/21/2001
Subject: Track cleaning

Just bought some used track (I guess it is all used by now) that needs some pretty heavy cleaning. There is a fair amount of rust and some crud that looks like oil that hardened over time. Suggestions on the best method to clean it? I was thinking about a bright-boy or very fine sand paper. Any better methods? Thanks, Tom _---_---_---______--__--___+-----+||] [||####### B & O #####|______||_____ || pjpennington@... __| [][] |__ || ||_______________________/ _| B&O |___\_|| | ||| | | | | | | / | 4212 | # ||| | []|=|==================o=====o==================|=|[] /|-||(0)|=|(0)|=|(O) |_________| (0)|=|(0)|=|(O)||-|\ ======================================================== [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11831	From: Alex Sibbald	Date: 2/21/2001
Subject: Re: 312AC Steam Locomotive

Hello Chris, Thanks for all your help with my clicking problem. You hit the nail on the head. It wasn't pending doom as I feared, just pending maintainance. I had all the symptoms, sparks from the wheels of the tender with jerky motion. One of the metal wheels on the tender was caked with nasty crud. I can't believe that only one wheel got this dirty this soon. What a relief, I've had this locomotive since it was new. A little cleaning and all is well. It was great to get so much advice from a support group of knowledgeable hobbiests. Thanks again, Alex busyboy wrote: > Alex Sibbald wrote: > >I have an American Flyer 312AC steam locomotive which lately is making > >clicking noises when running forward and it seems to be trying to go > >into reverse by itself. Is this a sign of approaching doom or does > >anyone know of a fast cure. I am using an 8b transformer and up until > >now the engine has worked fine. > > Alex: > The clicking is the partial disengaging and rapid re-engaging of the powered > solenoid in the tender. This is probably due to dirt. Clean the wheels, > the pickups and the track and try again. If it still does it, there could > be a loose solder joint on a wire from one of the tender trucks to the coil. > > Clicking is not indicative of a bad unit, worn fingers, damaged or dirty > drum, or poor wiring from the unit to the engine. It is strictly an > intermittant connection between transformer and reverse unit coil. Find and > fix that and the clicking will stop. > > If you do open it up, a thorough cleaning and inspection can't hurt. It's > called opportunistic mainenance. > > Two to go, > Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11832	From: Rick Evans	Date: 2/22/2001
Subject: Re: Track cleaning

Tom Pennington wrote: ***(((There is a fair amount of rust and some crud that looks like oil that hardened over time. Suggestions on the best method to clean it? I was thinking about a bright-boy or very fine sand paper. Any better methods? Thanks, Tom)))*** Hi Tom, You'll get all kinds of answers on this one!! I have had good luck with a "Brite-Boy" type of product for light cleaning. It has been suggested to use a "Scotch Brite" pad, (is that the name??),...which I did try cleaning up some old track for my Christmas layout. It's a little more aggresive then a Brite-Boy and I had good luck with that. Depending on the amount of "Crud & Oil" build up you have,...perhaps a liquid track cleaner, or WD40, or some kind of solvent might be better to cut the crud first. Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11833	From: Doug	Date: 2/22/2001
Subject: Re: Track cleaning

Cleaning is one thing, but has anyone tried to restore the track to "new looking" condition?? I have boxes of track I want to do this to. My main concern is the bluing (for lack of a better word) on the ties. Any suggestions on how to restore that finish to it's original condition, after removing the rust and other crude?? As I went through the boxes, I also can tell that there is definitely two differently manufactured types of track in there. The type I grew up with in the mid to late 1950's, and then some other that looks like it was made possibly using a cheaper grade of steel. Anyone have a history on the track?? Thanks, Doug ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Evans" <comic@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 3:11 AM Subject: [S-Trains] Re: Track cleaning > Tom Pennington wrote: > ***(((There is a fair amount of rust and some crud that looks like > oil that hardened over time. Suggestions on the best method > to clean it? I was thinking about a bright-boy or very fine sand > paper. Any better methods? Thanks, Tom)))*** > > Hi Tom, > You'll get all kinds of answers on this one!! > > I have had good luck with a "Brite-Boy" type of product for light > cleaning. It has been suggested to use a "Scotch Brite" pad, (is > that the name??),...which I did try cleaning up some old track for my > Christmas layout. It's a little more aggresive then a Brite-Boy and I > had good luck with that. Depending on the amount of "Crud & Oil" > build up you have,...perhaps a liquid track cleaner, or WD40, or some > kind of solvent might be better to cut the crud first. > > Rick. > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11834	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 2/22/2001
Subject: Ace Trucks

The new owner of the downs Model Railroad offerings is Marlin (not Merlin) E. Becker, III. He owns Manheim Machine and Tool Company, Inc. (MM&T) at 139 Nevin Street, Lancaster, PA 17603. Contact information: Phone: 717/295-4966; Home Office and Fax: 717/627-3980. Marlin is really a nice guy who is struggling to keep this operation going. He really needs our support. Joe ===== Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,100 part lines American Models ########################## S-Helper Service Official Licensed Dealer for Gilbert Reproductions joestrainrepair@... Master Charge/Visa __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices! http://auctions.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11835	From: Eugene Steffan	Date: 2/22/2001
Subject: S Spree 2001

S Spree in Columbus, OH is May 18,19, & 20.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11836	From: W. Thomas Boussum	Date: 2/22/2001
Subject: Thanks.

Paul, Thanks for the LVM Catalog listing. I have a few projects in mind, and Lehigh Valley Models wil be used for a few of them. W. Thomas Boussum

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11837	From: Douglass Allen	Date: 2/22/2001
Subject: S-Fest

S-Fest 2001 is on 16,17,18 Nov. in S. Beloit Ill Doug Allen SLSG [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11838	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/22/2001
Subject: Re: Track cleaning

Hi all, Well, I don't have any documentation on track, just observation over the years. 1) Black track, AFAIK early production, though I have been told it was made during the Korean War years when Zinc and Cadmium were restricted for war production (yeah, I know, it was never declared a war). 2) Silver rails: Zinc or Cadmium or tin plated rails. I believe the different "metals" some note are different production runs. ACG bought plated steel sheets for the rail, and probably went with the currently lower priced finish. Haven't figured out if this can be related to a year. I suppose the only way to tell would be to compare track from intact set boxes, which are dated--though the track could be from production runs of a previous year! Anyone know when ACG did track production? 3) Pikemaster--gee need I say anything about this stuff?? I realize some really covet it, but I never liked it--it wasn't AF "T" Rail, and the curves are too tight! Rails appear to be tin plated. As for track cleaning, I have had good luck with low-pressure glass beading. Done carefully, depending on the amount of rust, you don't lose all the coatings, and a spray of clear coat keeps away the future rust, for a while (depends on the track's climate). If the tie bluing is lost, or the track plating goes away, I spray the track with "semi-gloss" black paint and have instant "black track." It at least looks better than rusty track! After coating, you need to sand or scotch-brite the tops of the rails for good electrical contact. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11839	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 2/22/2001
Subject: LTI diesel chassis wear

I just experienced my first LTI chassis wearing out. In June 1998 I replaced the two original ACG chassis on my 470 with LTI chassis. The axle holes on the originals had become badly opened from wear. I've run the 470 a fair amount since then and kept it well lubricated, but lately its performance decayed significantly. After evaluating all possible sources for the decrease in speed and power, and higher operating temperatures (e.g. field centering, new brushes, new springs, cleaning, lubrication, etc, etc,), it dawned on me - - could it be axle bushing wear already? Yes, the front chassis axle bushings had worn far enough that the front motor was not keeping pace with the rear motor. The rear motor has signs of some wear, but not as much and runs like a deer. Having one more new LTI chassis on hand, I put it in the front motor. Vavoom, back to normal (180 scale mph*, strong, and cool). Hint: if you turn an engine over, take off the sideframes, and the axle rocks like a teeter-totter, you've probably got a problem. It's rocking on the worm gear. It should have its axles supported by the chassis/bushings. Even with this condition it may spin fast when held up off the track. But my bet is it will run slowly on the track because the drive and worm gears are meshing too hard with each other. Next Steps: I'm going to rebush the worn LTI chassis with replacement bushings from Port Lines Hobby. I'll let you know how that goes. I'm also going to rebush a pair of original ACG chassis from a 360. Doug has those replacement bushings too. 360's had factory bushings, whereas later PA's have no bushings. I replaced the 360's chassis with LTI's when I thought I was going to use that chassis to power my 473 before realizing two different size PA motors were made by Gilbert (smaller non-pulmor, larger pulmor). Now I'm going to revert that 360 to original its configuration. I'll start a rotating pool of LTI's (rebushed as needed), swapping them out with others as they wear out. Someday I might also get the original 470 chassis rebushed and see how they compare. LTI bushings vs original ACG: LTI diesel chassis bushings don't go all the way through the wall of the chassis. ACG bushings do. That might be part of the reason they show signs of wear sooner than I expected. A difference in materials might also contribute to that, but I don't know what the differences are. Also, LTI maintenance instructions recommend you grease diesel axle holes, not just oil them. Gilbert sheets show oiling axle holes. I didn't know this until a couple of months ago. I'd been oiling all my diesel/electrics (LTI and ACG chassis). Since then, I've been greasing them with Labelle white grease (laced with Teflon, compatible with their oils). I've noticed engines run fine, and cooler. Hopefully, that method of lubrication will help extend the life of my diesels/electrics in the future, especially those with LTI chassis. * That's with a 15v transformer around a 5'x7' layout. 18v with a larger layout results may vary (ask Wayne Beachy, last June he caught it at the last minute during an unscheduled "why's it called American Flyer" demonstration. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11840	From: dlehnhoff@hotmail.com	Date: 2/22/2001
Subject: Growling engine

I have a 312 AC that has begun to 'growl'. Especially at low speeds. Could this be the worm gear? I notice it wobbles. How is it attached? Is the studd simply pressed on? Thanks! Dwight Lehnhoff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11841	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 2/22/2001
Subject: 312AC cycling

In a message dated 02/22/2001 4:50:37 AM Mountain Standard Time, S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes: > Alex: > The clicking is the partial disengaging and rapid re-engaging of the powered > solenoid in the tender. This is probably due to dirt. Clean the wheels, > the pickups and the track and try again. If it still does it, there could > be a loose solder joint on a wire from one of the tender trucks to the coil. > > Clicking is not indicative of a bad unit, worn fingers, damaged or dirty > drum, or poor wiring from the unit to the engine. It is strictly an > intermittant connection between transformer and reverse unit coil. Find and > fix that and the clicking will stop. > > If you do open it up, a thorough cleaning and inspection can't hurt. It's > called opportunistic mainenance. > > Two to go, > Chris Zizzo > > > > > > > Way to go Chris....You nailed it....Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11842	From: Trbngs@cs.com	Date: 2/22/2001
Subject: Club newsletters...

I need to get in touch with the editors of any S-scale or AF club newsletters reguarding exchange of newsletters with our club. Pleas contact me off-list. Thanks, Tom Bangs IESGAPN - S-TRAIN RAIL editor

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11843	From: Neil Trump	Date: 2/22/2001
Subject: Re: LTI diesel chassis wear

To all: I think you will find that the LTI bearings are fairly worn out from new. When they assemble the chassis together, they push in the bearings first, then they push the axle in from one side onto the gear, but to get the axle in with the raised knurl part in the middle, the bearing i/d must be a larger diameter than the axle bearing surface to accommodate it, thus the axles are a sloppy fit to begin with. I remember seeing some LTI marketing blurb proudly stating that these new chassis have '...wide axle bushings'. It took me a while to figure out what they actually meant, it soon became apparent. If you look at an original ACG chassis, the axle bearing diameters are different to overcome this problem, LTI just chose a cheap solution at the time. Neil T. >LTI bushings vs original ACG: LTI diesel chassis bushings don't go all the >way through the wall of the chassis. ACG bushings do. That might be part >of the reason they show signs of wear sooner than I expected. A difference >in materials might also contribute to that, but I don't know what the >differences are. Also, LTI maintenance instructions recommend you grease >diesel axle holes, not just oil them. Gilbert sheets show oiling axle >holes. I didn't know this until a couple of months ago. I'd been oiling >all my diesel/electrics (LTI and ACG chassis). Since then, I've been >greasing them with Labelle white grease (laced with Teflon, compatible with >their oils). I've noticed engines run fine, and cooler. Hopefully, that >method of lubrication will help extend the life of my diesels/electrics in >the future, especially those with LTI chassis. >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11844	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 2/22/2001
Subject: LTI chassis wear

David, this is bad news. I had always expected the nylon gears to start slipping, but not the problem you describe. I seem to recall that an old LTI parts list had the bushings for separate sale. If this is true, you might be able to talk them out of some, or Hobby Surplus had a large stock of L– parts, but LTI had asked them not to advertize them. They may be worth a shot too. Another idea -- you might be able to remove bushings from one LTI chassis and insert them in another, if you're careful not to distort them. Rebushing an LTI chassis might be more difficult than doing a Gilbert chassis, because of the problem Neil Trump mentioned. I have one question: the photo of your layout showed that it was small. Have you always been running this loco in the same direction on it? That might account for the wear you have found. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11845	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 2/22/2001
Subject: TRACK CLEANING

What I use to make this easier is a jig I made...I used a 1x4 36" long with molding strips nailed and glued to the 1x4.....the molding strips are just the right size to provide a nice fit.... not too tight but not to loose....this holds the track snugly and then I use a red Scotch brite pad rolled up...Also I spray the track with tuner cleaner before cleaning....after cleaning wipe witha cloth toremove crud....them spray with either a tuner cleaner or DEOXIT D5 then wipe with a cloth that has been used to wipe the DEOXIT with before.. the ties come out nicely this way and the track stays cleaner longer with this coductive coating......As far as the 1x4 I lay it across my lap or you could glue&nail a short 2x4 on the bottom and put it in a vise....... Also put a 1/2 track on each end of track to be cleaned this will save tearing the pad..... Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11846	From: BENJAMIN PERRY	Date: 2/22/2001
Subject: TEST

This is a test [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11847	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 2/22/2001
Subject: #728 and #26748 Re-railers

I have been looking on a number of web sites as well as eBay auctions, and have not seen either of the #728 or the #26748 re-railers available. Are these items rare, or so common nobody bothers? Also, was looking in an old A.C. Gilbert catalog (55-58) and noticed a #472 Alco PA in Santa Fe. I have never seen one of these, is this a catalog error, are they very rare or what. Thanks for the info. Tom _---_---_---______--__--___+-----+||] [||####### B & O #####|______||_____ || pjpennington@... __| [][] |__ || ||_______________________/ _| B&O |___\_|| | ||| | | | | | | / | 4212 | # ||| | []|=|==================o=====o==================|=|[] /|-||(0)|=|(0)|=|(O) |_________| (0)|=|(0)|=|(O)||-|\ ======================================================== [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11848	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/22/2001
Subject: Re: #728 and #26748 Re-railers

Tom, Yes, the 472 is a bit rare, SF silver scheme, 1956 only. Interestingly, although many of the '56 pieces are rare, the catalog itself is quite common, even in mint. Rerailers aren't that rare, seems like I've seen many on eBay recently. You do have to watch out for sagging rails in them, sometimes they need shimming to keep couplers happy. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11849	From: David	Date: 2/23/2001
Subject: Re: #728 and #26748 Re-railers

Tom, the 728 and 26748 re-railers are relatively common. They show up at shows and on e-bay on a regular basis. Recently, however, e-bay bidding on them has reached rediculous prices, and then the dealers jumped on the bandwagon, so you will see them priced way too high around $35 and $40. I've bought several in the last year, and did not pay over $15 to $20 each. So I would scoff at any priced over that range. The 472 is a for real loco. Its not easy to find as it was a 1 year only item.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11850	From: Gerry Evans	Date: 2/23/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Giving credit where credit is due.

GARY: Be careful what you wish for. You may get "bumped up" in the NASG modeling categories by becoming the "father" of model winners by default--and "typos" and "thinkos." Chuckle, chuckle! Gerry Evans

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11851	From: Gary.L.Ippolito@clev.frb.org	Date: 2/23/2001
Subject: Giving credit where credit is due.

Although I have not seen the latest issue of the S Gaugian, rumor has it that there is an article about the American Flyer Combine Car which won second place in the 1999 St. Paul Convention model contest. The article incorrectly states that I am the builder of the car when it was actually Jerry Poniatowski. However, if a future article gives me credit for any of his Scale models, I will not be so quick to point out that fact. Gary

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11852	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 2/23/2001
Subject: Re: LTI diesel chassis wear

It could be the LTI's start off behind the curve. It'd be interesting to compare how much axle play the following start off with - - 1) new (never run) early model ACG PA/GP chassis (with factory bushings) 2) new late model ACG PA/GP chassis (no bushings) 3) new LTI chassis (these have some initial axle play, but not a lot. However, relatively a lot? That's the question.) 4) rebushed LTI 5) rebushed early model ACG 6) bushed late model ACG Also to know something about the material used in each case, and how full-length or partial length the bushing/bearing is. [Not to mention AM/SHS engines too.] In the meantime, I'll be soon be operating with #3, 4, and 5, with at least anecdotal info on them over time. If any of you have mint/LN ACG engines you'd like to donate to this program, just let me know. :<> The fun in them, Is in run'n them. Dave [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11853	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 2/23/2001
Subject: Crossing Gate-Bell Danger Signal

Mike: try replacing the bell with a 3/4" copper end cap from a plumbing supply store. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11854	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 2/23/2001
Subject: 472

While it is true that the 472 was only made for one year, I don't think it is all that rare. It was part of a low priced set, almost a starter set, and I believe Gilbert made a lot of them that year. It seems that certain sets are more common in certain parts of the country. Has anyone else ever noticed this? For instance, the 21140 is supposed to be very rare, but I have seen 6 of them around New York, which leads me to believe a disproportionate number of them were marketed here. Also, unsold items were unloaded through a limited number of outlets. The uncataloged 484-486 A-A diesels, for example, were remaindered through Savoy Merchandise of NYC and Blum's of Cleveland. Various other items seem more common around Chicago or other areas, than they are in New York. Perhaps a lot of 472's were dumped in the New York area. But what do I know? All this is guessing . I was just a kid then. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11855	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 2/23/2001
Subject: BOXCAR???

Hi Guys, I'm looking for a #24003 SF boxcar Anyone with one that would like to sellit contact me........Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11856	From: David	Date: 2/23/2001
Subject: Re: 472

Tom, there may be more fact in your theory than your giving yourself credit for. In the northeast K5's and Atlantics are typically found coming out of the woodwork. A few years ago I lived in Florida. Atlantics, and better number K5's were rather challenging to find. I think demographics played a big part in what was shipped and bought where. Its been said that many specialty cars that are scarce today were demographically distributed by default. A sample would be the Whites box car. I understand that Whites were stores only located in the southwest, hence one would expect to have better luck crossing paths with one in that region. The Hudsons you mention would naturally show up more often in the northeast as thats where NYC ran them, and fans of the NYC bought them more often.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11857	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 2/23/2001
Subject: Re: 472

In a message dated 2/23/01 11:57:29 AM, jarcho@... writes: << While it is true that the 472 was only made for one year, I don't think it is all that rare. >> The 472 appears to be in the middle for scarcity. The old Flay and Lenart guide from 1992 rates this engine as a 5 on a scale from 9 (most common) to 0 (most scarce). In putting our new TM AF Guide together, by using collective input from our panel of AF collector/reviewers around the country, we arrived at a Rarity Rating of 3 on a scale of 1 to 5+. Personally, I have observed 472s fairly frequently at large eastern shows. Hope this helps. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11858	From: Tom Stolte	Date: 2/23/2001
Subject: New Decals from Oddballs Decals - N, S, HO & O scales

621 ATSF ACF 3 bay covered hopper. (6-73) Painted mineral red. Accurail or Athearn kit. Set will letter one car. Series 313800-314799. White lettering. Large Santa Fe billboard lettering. 622 I&M Rail Link PS 3 bay covered hopper. (3-80) Painted navy/dark blue. Athearn kit. Set will letter one car. Series 50238-50266. White & red lettering. 623 Midwest Railcar Corp. 60' boxcar. (6-99) Painted dark brown. Eel Rivers kit. Set will letter one car. White, blue, orange lettering. 624 I&M Rail Link 2 bay covered hopper. (5-97) Painted light grey. Details West kit. Set will 1 car. Black lettering. The N scale sets will letter 2 or 3 cars. S & O scale will letter 1 car. All the above decals refer to HO scale kits on the market. These will also work for other scales. Just pick a car of your choice in the other scales. Prefix numbers for N scale 60-. HO scale 87-. S scale 64-. O scale 48-. N & HO scale retail price $3.00. S & O scale retail price $6.00. These should be in your favorite hobby shop within the next month or so. If ordering direct, please include $1.75 for p&h. Up to date catalog N, HO, S & O scale, $5.00, plus $1.75 for p&h. You buy this catalog once, then every 3 months or so, send me a LSSAE for updates. Fits in a 3 ring binder. Tom Stolte - Oddballs Decals N, HO, S & O Scale Model Railroad Decals 26550 227th Street; McLouth, Kansas 66054 Phone: 913-727-6649 - oddballdecal@... Web site http://www.oddballsdecals.com/ Subscribe: OddballsDecals-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Missouri Pacific Photos Web Page: http://www.trainweb.org/mopac/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11859	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 2/23/2001
Subject: LTI Chassis wear

Tom J, I ordered some LTI replacement bushings from Doug Peck at Port Lines. I removed the old ones with a #3 Easy-Out and a piece of metal opposite the tip of the easy out for it to push against. This procedure ruins the old bushing, but makes a clean removal of it from the chassis. (LTI bushings don't go all the way through the chassis wall, so you can't knock them out.) How well the replacement bushings work, I'll let you know. I tend to run clockwise most of the time at home with the 470 in the lead position. On the club layout, both directions, and the 470 in the lead and #3 position backwards. I didn't notice one side's bushings worn more than the other. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11860	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 2/23/2001
Subject: 'Syndrome' article in S-Gaugian

Tom J's article in this month's S-Gaugian hit on one of the greatest mysteries I've run across. The article contains a boat-load of good advice about having everything even, balanced, centered, smooth, wired correctly, etc. I've found those measures help in nearly every case, but in many only temporarily. After 2-3 hours of running, the "syndrome" creeps back. So far I've had this happen to a 21088, 21004, 293, 303 and 21130. In all of them I've tried everything Tom hit on except rewinding. With the 21130 I even did that. The good news is my rewinding worked, the bad news is it ran exactly the same - - fast in reverse, noticeably slower in forward. With the Franklin, slope-back, heavy-Pacific, and Atlantic, the only lasting cure has been a new old-stock armature. They run great and have stayed that way. A super-size barrel commutator armature is on its way to me in the mail for the 21130. I'll let you know what happens. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11861	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 2/23/2001
Subject: Track Cleaning

Several Gilbert components including ties, sheet metal trucks, log loader tracks, and car chassis/underbodies were made from 'blued' steel. 'Bluing' is the finish used on guns, and is therefore readily available from gun shops and other (hardware type) stores. I got a 3 oz. bottle of Birchwood Casey 'Perma Blue Liquid Gun Blue For Steel' at Wal-Mart. Gun blue is a selenium dioxide solution which turns steel black upon contact. It is easy to use, but is toxic, so follow the health cautions on the bottle. Once you have removed the rust or other contaminants from the piece, you wash it with a degreaser such as rubbing alcohol. The area to be blued should be bright steel. Clean with steel wool or sand paper if needed to achieve that. After rinsing with water, bluing is applied. For small areas on things I use a Q-Tip. You leave it on for a minute, rinse with cold water, and dry. Light polishing with fine steel wool give the shine that blued pieces have. If the newly blued area is not dark enough, repeat the bluing cycle until it is dark enough for you. Bluing is a surprising fast and straightforward process. If the corroded part is pitted, bluing will not fill the pits. But it will restore the color. In a matter of ten or fifteen minutes you can have a cruddy looking part looking close to new. Roger Delthony

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11862	From: Doug	Date: 2/23/2001
Subject: Re: Track Cleaning

Gentlemen, Thanks for all the suggestions on restoring the track. Makes my work a little easier. Doug ps...where do you find MIB track??? I've never seen it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Delthony" <rpd3@...> To: <reefman@...>; "S-Trains" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 7:09 PM Subject: Track Cleaning > Several Gilbert components including ties, sheet metal trucks, log > loader tracks, and car chassis/underbodies were made from 'blued' > steel. 'Bluing' is the finish used on guns, and is therefore readily > available from gun shops and other (hardware type) stores. I got a 3 > oz. bottle of Birchwood Casey 'Perma Blue Liquid Gun Blue For Steel' at > Wal-Mart. > > Gun blue is a selenium dioxide solution which turns steel black upon > contact. It is easy to use, but is toxic, so follow the health cautions > on the bottle. > > Once you have removed the rust or other contaminants from the piece, you > wash it with a degreaser such as rubbing alcohol. The area to be blued > should be bright steel. Clean with steel wool or sand paper if needed > to achieve that. After rinsing with water, bluing is applied. For > small areas on things I use a Q-Tip. You leave it on for a minute, > rinse with cold water, and dry. Light polishing with fine steel wool > give the shine that blued pieces have. If the newly blued area is not > dark enough, repeat the bluing cycle until it is dark enough for you. > > Bluing is a surprising fast and straightforward process. If the > corroded part is pitted, bluing will not fill the pits. But it will > restore the color. In a matter of ten or fifteen minutes you can have a > cruddy looking part looking close to new. > > Roger Delthony > > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11863	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 2/23/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, February 25, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11864	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/23/2001
Subject: Re: 'Syndrome' article in S-Gaugian

Hmm, sounds like maybe the problem is wear in the worm gear?? If so, we will all face this problem (unless our trains sit on the shelf all the time). Maybe there's a market for repro armatures????? S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11865	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 2/23/2001
Subject: syndrome

David H.: have you tried adding an additional thin thrust washer (W1A92) to the rear of the armature shaft in those locos you mention in which the problem returned? I think (guess) that when a steam loco goes forward, the worm drive puts pressure on and causes wear at the rear armature bearing, be it the shaft or the bearing. The importance of adding the thin washer to the armature rear could be to compensate for that wear. After the Ranger game (yes, I'm an optimist), I am going to pull out the only armature I have that am sure had the faster in reverse problem, orig. from a 21004, and compare it to a good one. It is entirely possible that wear in the worm grooves (teeth) could cause the syndrome as David Dewey suggests. It can't be wear in the helical gear because a new armature cures the syndrome; on that we all agree. Wish I had a dissecting microscope. It would also be handy for other types of repairs and investigations. Haven't used one since about 1967, when I was working in a lab where a teratologist was trying to grow 2 headed fish embryos to maturity (he failed). But I would like to look at a few problematic armatures under one. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11866	From: Dick Kuepper	Date: 2/23/2001
Subject: Plasticville paint spots

Thanks to all who responded. Your suggestions were very helpful. What a group! Dick [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11867	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 2/23/2001
Subject: Re: Demographics/distribution

Tom and Dave An example of this that I am familiar with is the 1960 "Arrow" set with the 21105 and 24066. It was/is very common in the Mt. west where I live but not so easy to find in other parts of the country. Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11868	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 2/23/2001
Subject: Animated Coach

I need a restorable 735 coach, anyone have one? Also anyone ever heard of greg kreft, I think his company name was AFP. He made flyer parts.Keith _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11869	From: Al Paolozzi	Date: 2/23/2001
Subject: Re: Animated Coach

I don't know if he is still in business, but his phone no. is/was 248 375 9743. He was located in Utica, Michigan. Good luck! Al ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Kuzma" <keithkuzma@...> To: <s-trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 9:15 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Animated Coach > I need a restorable 735 coach, anyone have one? Also anyone ever heard of > greg kreft, I think his company name was AFP. He made flyer parts.Keith > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11870	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 2/24/2001
Subject: 'Syndrome' article in S-Gaugian

I've run into the "fast-one-way-slow-the-other-way" problem on a certain 336 that I own. I remember my incredulous joy at finding this beautiful steamer (with the BIG motor!) for sale at a reasonable price. I also recall my distress when, after servicing the loco thoroughly, it ran at only half speed in forward. (It flew down the track in reverse.) I know exactly what caused the problem, on my loco, anyway. I fixed it. The problem was caused by slightly uneven commutator plates. This seems to occur occasionally with locos that have been stored away for many years. What causes it is uncertain, it may have to do with the brushes applying pressure to the same spots on the commutator for an extended period of time. Or it may have something to do with shrinkage of the adhesives in the armature. Or not. At any rate, the warpage somehow occurs to the same edge of each plate. It isn't serious enough to be visible to the naked eye, but it has a pronounced effect. In one direction, there's no problem because the brushes can easily ride off the "high" edge of one plate and drop to the next plate. The problem comes when the motor turns the other way. The edge of the approaching plate is sticking out from the armature slightly further than the edge of the plate that the brush is already on, causing the brush to "catch" on the edge of the approaching plate. Both brushes do this, and so there are six "catches" per revolution of the armature. That adds up to a significant amount of increased mechanical resistance in one direction of rotation. (Not to mention increased brush wear.) You can detect the problem by slowly, gently rotating the armature with your thumb in the slow direction, while feeling for any roughness when a brush crosses a commutator gap (you'll need to detach the tender). It will take a light touch, but the problem can be felt. The armature will turn smoothly in the other direction. The cure is to resurface the commutator face. Some here may have better tools for doing this, but I did mine by using a drill press. After removing the armature from the motor, the worm shaft was covered with masking tape for protection so that the shaft could be inserted into the drill press chuck. Care must be taken that the jaws of the chuck do not press against the fiber armature sleeve. I cut a hole in a piece of emery ("wet/dry") paper to clear the shaft and oil slinger of the armature, and set the paper on a flat piece of metal which was mounted to the drill press table. (The metal piece also had a hole to clear the armature shaft and slinger. NOTE: The holes must not be too large. Even pressure must be applied to the entire surface of the commutator face.) With the DP set at it's slowest speed (710 RPM), and everything in place, I just lightly pressed the commutator face against the wet emery paper, checking every 10 seconds or so to see my progress. After the first "stab" at the thing, the raised spots of the plates were evident. Nice, clean copper on the same edge of each plate. Turning continued until the plates were enitrely clean and with uniform surfaces. Patience pays off here. Fortunately, the plates are thick, but it's nice to leave as much copper on them as possible. After reassembly, that Northern flies equally fast in both directions. It runs so well, it doesn't like to stop for Bossy the Bovine. When running the Northern in her neighborhood, I have to run the throttle noticeably lower than for other steamers, or things get messy! Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11871	From: Peck	Date: 2/24/2001
Subject: Re: Kreft

<<anyone ever heard of greg kreft, I think his company name was AFP. He made flyer parts.>> Greg sold the AFP business 2-3 years ago. It is under new operation, but not with as prompt service as Greg used to provide. AFP is quantity-wholesale-to-dealers-only. They do not retail individual parts. Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11872	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 2/24/2001
Subject: New file uploaded to S-Trains

Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the S-Trains group. File : /whatisit.jpg Uploaded by : yorke@... Description : WHAT IS IT? It is labeled 'RAILMASTER 1969279 3/16', Made of hard rubber, 2.2IN SQR BY 1/4 IN You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/whatisit.jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, yorke@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11873	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 2/24/2001
Subject: S Signal Tower

Just created a page showing a interesting S Signal, we are looking for information on it's origin. http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/signal/signaltower.html -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://S-Trains.com (alt e-mail PaulYorke@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11874	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 2/24/2001
Subject: "The Rock" decals

Now I am serious:) Ok, now that I have picked up a few L-Flyer "The Rock" boxcars and I will hit my local paint store to have a pint or two of "Bankruptcy Blue" mixed to paint up a geep and a few other cars Where can I find or have someone custom print some s-scale "The Rock" logos. I can use the HO "R" decal for gondolas but I am stuck for decaling up a GP-7 and others. Jeff T.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11875	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 2/24/2001
Subject: looking for AF Gondola shells and others

Good morning all As mentioned in a previous message I picked up a few "The Rock" Boxcars and I will be painting up a few cars in "The Rock" Bankruptcy Blue. Soooo.... Anyone out there have any AF gondola, hopper or flat car bodies even a clapped out GP-7 that is just dying for a fresh coat of Blue? All will eventually become knuckle couplered or may install newer trucks Thought I would ask. off to the paint store Jeff T.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11876	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 2/24/2001
Subject: retrofitting trucks

Say.... Has anyone ever changed from flyer trucks to ones used by AM or S-Helper? If so how did you do it?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11877	From: busyboy	Date: 2/24/2001
Subject: MIB track

Doug asked: >Where do you find MIB track??? I've never seen it. There was a box just recently on eBay. Was it shiny! It went for $5 a section! 22go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11878	From: busyboy	Date: 2/24/2001
Subject: Musings on motor and gear wear

With all the recent postings on wear and use problems in Flyer equipment, I have allowed my imagination some leeway, yet I cannot conceive the possibility that A.C. Gilbert could ever have predicted this future. No manufacturer has ever built any product, even the most durable of appliances, in the belief that the product would be used somewhat sporadically, perhaps for two weeks a year around the holidays, for a period of 6 or 7 years, then put away in storage in excellent mechanical condition for 35 years, only to be unpacked and then used continuously to the point of needing maintenance and repair parts. The idea that such a fate would await mechanical toys is nearly beyond belief, yet, here we are. Perhaps, instead of building new trains, the owners of the American Flyer name would do better by building the parts for old trains. Currently, an underground network of parts manufacturers makes a variety of repro pieces. If Lionel built replacement armatures and other essentials, or made can motor conversions that improved performance, they would finally be doing us a service we would pay for. I'd love to run the Odyssey system and use the Trainmaster controls to boot. Why not bring new Flyer into the fold? Well, I feel better now. Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11879	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 2/24/2001
Subject: musings on...

Chris: actually, Lionel trains WERE built to be run a little for a few years, put away for many years, and then passed on to the next generation, etc. One of their selling points was that they would become heirlooms. And they have. Remember that ad about a family gathering in a lawyer's office to hear the reading of a will, with the caption being, "Who gets the Lionel?" Lionel will generally run after 40 years in a closet. Flyer, unfortunately, was built to be just a little cheaper (and flimsier) than Lionel. Gilbert succeeded, too. Part of the fun in getting old Flyer to run well is to defy or defeat time (age), or at least get it to back up a little. When LTI first started making Flyer, they promised that they would make needed replacement parts as well. They never did, though. In my experience, getting parts from those boys is majorly difficult. About ten years ago, I spent months trying to get them to manufacture a kit that would include a replacement chassis, and possibly a brush mount (they always are warped), springs, and brushes, for Flyer diesel motors. It would have been a big seller too. This experience convinced me that they would never do S gauge much good. In the last ten years, haven't seen anything to make me change my mind. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11880	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 2/24/2001
Subject: Baldwin Locomotive 21801

Ok, I bought a 21801 Baldwin in near perfect condition (yes it does have the crack on the back deck). I remember from when I was a kid (all the brain cells are not gone yet) that the one I had then did not pull many cars, and this one does not either (3 is a strain). Has anyone experimented with this engine to improve tractive effort, or is it not worth the time. Can it be easily re-geared of re-motored, or would additional weight help. Thanks for any info, you guys have been a big help getting back into S guage and AF after 35 years or so. Tom _---_---_---______--__--___+-----+||] [||####### B & O #####|______||_____ || pjpennington@... __| [][] |__ || ||_______________________/ _| B&O |___\_|| | ||| | | | | | | / | 4212 | # ||| | []|=|==================o=====o==================|=|[] /|-||(0)|=|(0)|=|(O) |_________| (0)|=|(0)|=|(O)||-|\ ======================================================== [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11881	From: Bill Clark	Date: 2/24/2001
Subject: Pictures from Gene Kelley's Layout

Gene Kelley has an exceptionally fine Hi-rail layout with an amazing level of detail scenery. The Bristol Club had its meeting a Gene's house in January. Go to this URL to see some pictures of Gene's layout: http://www.trainweb.org/bristol-s-gauge/MembersLayouts/Gene/Gene.html or http://www.bristol-s-gauge.com Bill

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11882	From: Euell Johnson	Date: 2/24/2001
Subject: Re: Pictures from Gene Kelley's Layout

This is my DREAM!! EJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Clark" <billclark@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2001 2:17 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Pictures from Gene Kelley's Layout > Gene Kelley has an exceptionally fine Hi-rail layout with an amazing level > of detail scenery. The Bristol Club had its meeting a Gene's house in > January. Go to this URL to see some pictures of Gene's layout: > > http://www.trainweb.org/bristol-s-gauge/MembersLayouts/Gene/Gene.html > > or > > http://www.bristol-s-gauge.com > > Bill > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11883	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 2/24/2001
Subject: Re: retrofitting trucks

I epoxied wooden bolsters in place and mounted the trucks to them with small wood screws. You need to experiment to get the height right. Basswood from a hobby shop works well. I have used this method with both AF cars, and also Lionel small O27 box cars that I have used as sound cars because they will sccomodate 2" speakers. Jeffrey Tangeman wrote: > > Say.... > > Has anyone ever changed from flyer trucks to ones used by AM or S-Helper? > > If so how did you do it? > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11884	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 2/24/2001
Subject: : retrofitting trucks

To mount AM, SHS, or Ace trucks to an AF gon, flat, or tankcar I have used Ace conversion bolsters. Downs (Ace) made specific bolsters for specific cars. The bolsters were designed for Ace trucks, but having worked with SHS and Am trucks, I see no incompatibility problems with those. Downs also made a whole conversion floor for AF box, reefer, and cattle cars which works very well. A square-window caboose floor was also offered. Someone mentioned in an earlier post that Downs recently changed hands. Hopefully, these items are still being made. Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11885	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 2/24/2001
Subject: Re: #728 and #26748 Re-railers

David Dewey wrote: > Tom, > Yes, the 472 is a bit rare, SF silver scheme, 1956 only. Interestingly, > although many of the '56 pieces are rare, the catalog itself is quite > common, even in mint. > Rerailers aren't that rare, seems like I've seen many on eBay recently. > You do have to watch out for sagging rails in them, sometimes they need > shimming to keep couplers happy. > S' > David D. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Is the 1956 Catalog the one that the cover clearly shows a GP-7 with ALCO truck sideframes on it? I doubt they ever sold any units like that--hell of a way to say you had an SD-7 in your product line. DJE

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11886	From: John Denholm	Date: 2/24/2001
Subject: A-F Trucks & Couplers Please Help

Hi Guys & Gals; I want to purchase enough A-F Trucks with couplers to refit 12 Cars[24 units] 2 per car 4 wheel trucks with Link or nuckle couplers prefer second tyme around due to cost factor as I live away up here in Fishin the wolf Country :} I will prepay for anthin I Buy plus Shipping in U.S. Funds by Money order so you dont get stuck with Bankers Charges Etc. Thanks any help will be appreciated John Denholm. Please reply to jde@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11887	From: belairchevy@webtv.net	Date: 2/24/2001
Subject: AF 20730

Could someone advise me of what an American Flyer 20730 set in very good condition with the box is worth. The only item missing is the auto hauler for the flat car. Thanks! Brad

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11888	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 2/24/2001
Subject: Chassis wanted

I picked up a 21004 loco a while back with everything in near new condition, but it has one minor problem. It is missing the chassis. Anyone have a chassis in as complete a condition as possible they would like to sell? Roger Petrella Franktown, CO

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11889	From: Rick Evans	Date: 2/24/2001
Subject: Faster in reverse......

I finally got to work on my ol' 282 loco that I have complained about in the past having the "faster in reverse" problem. I somewhat tried to "true" the commutator with no success. Tried an extra washer to take out some play with no success. What worked for me was throwing in an old pre-pull mor armature, (somethin' I had laying around). The 282 is no speed demon with this armature BUT, it is running better!! As Tom Jarcho said in his response to my question a year ago regarding this problem, when all else fails, it could be a partially burnt out armature. I believe that in my case,...that was/is the problem. Just thought I would pass this along. Oh, does anyone sell re-placement armatures?? Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11890	From: not2lance@yahoo.com	Date: 2/24/2001
Subject: Axle bushings for PA diesels

Can anyone tell me where to get bushings for worn PA chasis? Also, Barker's book tells how to do the job. Does anyone have additional advice? What is not clear to me is how to locate the bearing the proper distance from the worm. If the axle is too high the worm and worm gear mesh too deeply and you get poor running. How do you know where to locate the new bushing so the axle is the proper distance from the motor? Thanks Lance McCold

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11891	From: donabrams	Date: 2/24/2001
Subject: Greg Kreft

I used to buy from Greg, but a few years ago he stopped sales to individuals and would only sell to dealers. No tax I.D. -- no sale. Don

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11892	From: John Denholm	Date: 2/24/2001
Subject: retrofitting Downs trucks

Hi all; I have installed the lionel steel wheel as a spacer inbetween the bottom of the deck and the truck and seems to be the right Height for the couplers be sure to test your height as sometymes you have to file the axle hole so its level also the wheels should be from the Fiftys for the right spacer hope this helps .John de

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11893	From: joe messinger	Date: 2/24/2001
Subject: Faster -in- reverse

Have seen the "Faster-in-reverse" thing come up several times recently. I think it's caused by the commutator being out of square with the armature (worm) shaft. I've cured the problem on quite a few motors by "squaring" them. The trick to fixing the situation is to chuck the armature in a lathe or drill press and, accurately, remove enough metal from the commutator to correct the bias. Simply spinning the armature and pressing a piece of sandpaper against the commutator doesn't do anything but polish the surface. The bias (and the problem) is still there. You can use a dial indicator to to check things as you go. Joe Messinger _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11894	From: Rick Evans	Date: 2/24/2001
Subject: Re: Faster -in- reverse

"joe messinger" wrote: ***(((Have seen the "Faster-in-reverse" thing come up several times recently. I think it's caused by the commutator being out of square with the armature (worm) shaft. I've cured the problem on quite a few motors by "squaring" them. The trick to fixing the situation is to chuck the armature in a lathe or drill press and, accurately, remove enough metal from the commutator to correct the bias.)))*** For those of you lucky enough to have a drill press or a lathe, what would you charge to do this for the few of us without such tools, and don't have the ability to use any tool other than a screw driver or a hammer??? :-) Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11895	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 2/24/2001
Subject: faster in reverse

For those who didn't see it: "In steam locos with end mounted commutators, wear on the commutator often causes poor forward performance. Specifically if you notice elliptical wear marks on one side (the same side) of each slot in the commutator, that will be what is causing the loco to run worse in forward. You may have to wipe off the commutator to see this. If you find this wear, you have to sand it out. To do this, drill a hole in a flat block of scrap wood to accommodate the short end of the armature shaft. Cut some #400 and #600 sandpaper into strips about 1 inch wide. Punch holes in the center of the strip every inch or so with a paper punch. Stick the short end of the armature shaft thru one of the holes in the sandpaper with the abrasive surface facing the commutator plates,and on into the hole in the wood block. Push down and turn the armature with your fingers. What this will do is sand the commutator down to a flat surface. As the paper gets clogged with residue, switch to the next hole in the paper. Use the #400 paper first and then the #600 to give a smooth finish once the pits are out of the commutator. If the damage is really deep, start with #280 or #320 sandpaper or it will take you all night to sand out the pits. When finished, brush away all dust and residue with a clean dry paint brush. " This will cure the f in r syndrome in most cases. I'm sure a lathe does a more precise job under skilled hands, but this manual method has worked well for me, well over a hundred times. It deals with correcting a wear pattern caused by arcing in a flat (true) commutator, not a warped or buckled commutator. Probably takes care of minor commutator warping too though. This wear pattern does not seem to occur in side mounted commutators. Could it be because the side mounted brushes are square? You have to be very careful when chucking an armature into a power tool. The metal of the armature shaft is soft, and can easily be bent by the weight of the plates and windings, especially in the large motor armature, if uneven pressure is applied to it. Much better if the armature shaft can be supported at both ends. Tom jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11896	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 2/24/2001
Subject: Re: Faster in reverse

--- In S-Trains@y..., "joe messinger" <jmessinger@h...> wrote: > Have seen the "Faster-in-reverse" thing come up several times recently. I > think it's caused by the commutator being out of square with the armature > (worm) shaft. I've cured the problem on quite a few motors by "squaring" > them. I found that problem with the armature in my trusty 303 Atlantic. The symptoms are different, though. A crooked pole assembly will cause uneven slow speeds (the loco slowing and speeding up once for each rotation of the armature), but this happens in both directions, although it might be slightly worse in forward due to the armature being forced harder into the brushes when running in that direction. The "slow-one-way" problem seems to have the cause that I outlined in an earlier post. > The trick to fixing the situation is to chuck the armature in a lathe or > drill press and, accurately, remove enough metal from the commutator to > correct the bias. Simply spinning the armature and pressing a piece of > sandpaper against the commutator doesn't do anything but polish the surface. I've sworn-off using sand paper for working on toy trains. It loses grit all over the place. 150 grit wet/dry EMERY paper, used WET, removes all the metal that is needed when supported by a hard, flat surface that is in turn supported by the drilling platform of a drill press. The "piece of metal" that I mentioned using for this operation is a milled aluminum jig 3/8" thick at it's thinnest area. It is flat on the "business" side, and has a hole drilled into it to clear the armature shaft and oil slinger. I bolt that to the platform, then using a machinist's square, I check the platform angle against a shaft held in the chuck of the drill press. (Hint: Look for an angle of 90 degrees! 8^D ) It also helps to go GENTLY (to avoid putting too much torque on the commutator) and SLOWLY (to avoid generating too much heat). Certainly, a lathe can be used for this, but the disadvantage is that there is less room for error. It's very easy for the lathe bit to knock a plate off the commutator. (Ask anyone who's used a lathe to dress the commutator of an RC race car motor.) The drill press method is slower, but safer. It works. I've done it with three of my steamers. Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11897	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/24/2001
Subject: Re: #728 and #26748 Re-railers

DJE, You wrote: "Is the 1956 Catalog the one that the cover clearly shows a GP-7 with ALCO truck sideframes on it? I doubt they ever sold any units like that--hell of a way to say you had an SD-7 in your product line. " Nope, that's the '58 catalog, which is itself a bit rare. The 56 cat has the NP streamliner in the foreground. Hmm, SD7, never thought of it that way! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11898	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/24/2001
Subject: Re: Axle bushings for PA diesels

Lance, You understand the situation very well! I've been preaching this for some time. IMHO, the only way to locate the axle holes is from the armature bearing "saddle." I plan to do this in my future fixture using some socket head screws with the ends rounded. One also need to use the bottom of the chassis to keep the axles parallel with the sideframes, as the sides of the chassis aren't parallel with each other, nor at right angles to the bottom. I also suspect the worn holes should first be enlarged using a mill cutter, as the holes are worn off-center, and a drill bit will want to wander to the hole center. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11899	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 2/24/2001
Subject: Faster in Reverse

Tom Jarco wrote: >For those who didn't see it: >"In steam locos with end mounted commutators, wear on the commutator >often >causes poor forward performance. Specifically if you notice >elliptical >wear marks on one side (the same side) of each slot in the >commutator, that >will be what is causing the loco to run worse in forward" I noticed this very pattern on a 316 that had a lot of miles on it. Resurfacing the commutator face (which did take some time) cured it. But the 336 Northern I mentioned had very little use on it when it came into our stable. There was none of the wear pattern described. That's what puzzled me. It LOOKED perfect. It wasn't until after I did everything else you can do to service a motor, without success, that I got desperate enough to try the method I described. >Cut some #400 and >#600 >sandpaper into strips about 1 inch wide. Punch holes in the center >of the >strip every inch or so with a paper punch. This is essentially what I did, but with wet/dry EMERY paper. It holds onto it's abrasive much better than sand paper. Also, I began with #150, then dressed the surface with #400 after getting a uniform surface with the coarse stuff. When it clogged, I'd just remove it from the work area, rinse it off, and put it back, soaking wet, (the paper, not me) to continue. >Stick the short end of the >armature shaft thru one of the holes in the sandpaper with the >abrasive surface facing the commutator plates,and on into the hole >in the wood block. After using a wood block at first, I found that wood can be a little too soft. Since a disc shaped surface will have less surface movement near the center than at the outer edge, the inner area takes longer to work down. As you go along, the wood tends to compress near the center, leaving the surface with a slight "bugle bell" shape. Using a block of aluminum as a backing cured that problem for me. >Push down and turn the armature with your fingers. I have the utmost admiration for anyone that has done this by hand. I'd still be working on that 316 if I hadn't used a drill press. >What this will >do is sand the commutator down to a flat surface. Klutz that I am, the surface that I would achieve doing this by hand would be anything but flat, let alone true. So I elected to use the ol' DP. >You have to be very careful when chucking an armature into a power >tool. True. But it's really ok to put the armature into a DP chuck IF you don't lean too hard on the chuck key, IF you sheath the worm shaft in something protective (masking tape is OK, but later on I used a length of brass tubing just large enough for the shaft), IF you don't press the chuck jaws against the fiber sleeve, and IF you don't try to go too fast by pressing the commutator into the emery paper too hard. Really, anyone with the patience to do this by hand is bound to have enough patience to accomplish it with a drill press. >The metal of the armature shaft is soft, and can easily be bent by >the weight of the plates and windings, especially in the large motor >armature, >if uneven pressure is applied to it. That's why I preferred to use a DP, which applies pressure consistently along the shaft. But again, a light touch is the key. Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11900	From: Rick Evans	Date: 2/25/2001
Subject: eliminating the reverse unit.....

First off I would like to comment on my earliar post about "faster in reverse",....My effort in trying "truing(or trueing)up" my commutator with no success, still doesn't mean the armature was partially burnt out, And by re-placing the armature only proves that it was maybe "truer" then the other,...or,...maybe not as burnt out! Gads, who knows?!? Anyway,....here's a simple question for you all. I'm working on a 290 loco, and have found the engine runs fine when I by-pass the tender,...started checking in the tender, fiddlin' with the fingers, and to make a long story short, a very small piece of the top finger unit broke off, therefore I can't keep the fingers down tight on the drum. (two little metal tabs go thru two little holes, and one little hole now has a open end!). So, my question is...since I can by-pass the reverse unit to make the loco run, why can't the unit be by-passed without the use of a diode bridge that Tom Barker speaks of in his book?? He says if you use DC, you can remove the unit and replace it with a diode bridge. So, if I want to stay with AC, how do I by-pass the unit? I'm in the fog with this electrical stuff!! I'm missing somethin' here! This 290 is a repaint (Southern, someone did a good job, I think), and I really don't care if it has a reverse or not. It's a great runner and a smoker! What can I do here?? Thanks, Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11901	From: Bob	Date: 2/25/2001
Subject: S.H.S. WINS......

Hello Group, I was taking a poll on two diesel switchers offered by two major companies. A.M. and S.H.S. It seems the group prefers S.H.S. over the A.M.Baldwin in pulling power and in detail.I'm still weighing over the two models to see which one I want to buy.Either way I figure I can't go wrong.Thanks for everyones in put. "S"incerely.........Bob

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11902	From: Bob	Date: 2/25/2001
Subject: Wire size.....

Dear Group, Last week we were discussing the gauge of wire to use as feeder wires under the table for power. 14g ,16g etc. The question I have is what size or gauge or type of wire do you use to connect the track to the feeder wires under the table,or for that matter the lighting and accessories ? I see atlas puts out wire but they come in different gauges.My layout is about 5 x 9 and I'm at the point where I starting to do my wiring on the layout and I need your help.Please e-mail me or post any or all suggestions.Thanks as always.You guys always know the answers ! "S"incerely.........Bob

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11903	From: busyboy	Date: 2/25/2001
Subject: Re: eliminating the reverse unit.....

Rick asked: >here's a simple question for you all. I'm working on a 290 >loco, and have found the engine runs fine when I by-pass the >tender,...started checking in the tender, fiddlin' with the fingers, >and to make a long story short, a very small piece of the top finger >unit broke off, therefore I can't keep the fingers down tight on the >drum. (two little metal tabs go thru two little holes, and one little >hole now has a open end!). >So, my question is...since I can by-pass the reverse unit to make the .loco run, why can't the unit be by-passed without the use of a diode >bridge that Tom Barker speaks of in his book?? He says if you use DC, >you can remove the unit and replace it with a diode bridge. So, if I >want to stay with AC, how do I by-pass the unit? I'm in the fog with >this electrical stuff!! I'm missing somethin' here! Rick: First, understand what the reverse unit is, electrically. It is a double pole, double throw switch with a center off. That means, it switches two circuits at once and can be closed to switch them in either of two directions or be left in an unswitched, open position. The solenoid, drum, pawl and fingers are nothing more than a mechanical device to make the switch sequence automatically. Therefore, the following are your options: 1.) You can solder together the wires that the drum would have connected to fix the engine in forward, reverse or even neutral. 2.) You can install a DPDT switch, with center off, from Radio Shack and manually select forward, reverse and neutral. 3.) You can buy a Dallee or some other modern electronic reverse unit and modernize your steamer. OR, the simplest solution of all: 4.) Buy a new fingerboard. These are available from Giardina, Peck, Leventon and just about anybody who sells Flyer repro parts. Replace both, and clean up the drum. It'll work like new. Two to go, forwards, backwards and nowhere, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11904	From: joe messinger	Date: 2/25/2001
Subject: Reverse Switches?

I saw an item on eBay described as, " Un-opened box of A.F. # 1 9257 Reverse Switches". Can't figure out what that is. Remote control (reverse) units are listed as # XA10587-E. Anyone know what they are? Maybe the slide switches that are used on (some?) 21160 Locos to manually put them in forward/reverse? Just curious. Joe M. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11905	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/25/2001
Subject: Re: Reverse Switches?

Joe, More likely it's a box of Slot Car item. Think it's been on eBay before, even! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11906	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 2/25/2001
Subject: Faster in Forward!!

Ok, What about my 336 that is twice as fast in forward than in reverse! Any ideas about this one?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11907	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 2/25/2001
Subject: All Aboard Panel Size?

Does anyone know the exact size of All Aboard panels? Are they all the same size?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11908	From: gunrjoe@aol.com	Date: 2/25/2001
Subject: access to yahoo

Thanks forn the great posts lately. On target and timely, have learned much. My problem is that yahoo will not let me in. Converted from e-groups already. When I enter all fields for forgotten yahoo password it says no record found. When I try to re-register, it says it does have a record and I cannot register. have been using computers for 10 years. can't figure this out?????? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11909	From: David	Date: 2/25/2001
Subject: Re: All Aboard Panel Size?

--- In S-Trains@y..., Chuck Harrington <myflyertrains@c...> wrote: > Does anyone know the exact size of All Aboard panels? Are they all the same size? Chuck, they are all the same size 17 inches by 17 inches.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11910	From: Rick Evans	Date: 2/25/2001
Subject: 290 reverse unit......

Thanks for the responses to my 'eliminating the reverse unit' question,...I'll probably try new finger boards, (call the fire Dept., Rick's gettin' out the soldering gun again!!). I did try a drop of solder on one of the fingers that had a hole in it, maybe too big of a drop, and then fiddlin' with the fingers, and the lack of being able to hold it tight because of the broken part, the unit seemed "hit & miss". But before I went to bed at 1 a.m., the 290 was running in both directions, which is better then when I started at 10:00, considering it wasn't running at all!! So new finger boards or I might just wire it in 'forward',..I really don't want to do the DC thing. Thanks to all, Rick ( do I smell something burning?) Evans

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11911	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 2/25/2001
Subject: refacing commutators

In a message dated 02/24/2001 10:58:14 PM Mountain Standard Time, S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes: > For those of you lucky enough to have a drill press or a lathe, what > would you charge to do this for the few of us without such tools, and > don't have the ability to use any tool other than a screw driver or a > hammer??? :-) > > Rick. > > I advertised on here a long time ago that I would resurface armatures for > $5 plus your shipping. Have been doing this successfully for many years. I > . Steve Blackburn Boise, Idaho [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11912	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 2/25/2001
Subject: Re: Wire size.....

Assuming you are using No. 12 or 14 as a bus wire, then 18 or 20 for the drops if you ever want to go to DCC and Bell type wire if you don't. There are several types of connectors that you can use to link the drops to the bus wire. cheers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11913	From: Ktrdd@AOL.com	Date: 2/25/2001
Subject: Re: eliminating the reverse unit.....

Hi There, I, too, had the misfortune of snapping-off the little metal tab that retains the fingerboard on the top of the tender mechanism (one side), what grief, followed by inward thought of "oh, s--t!". Having used a hot glue gun most of the last 2 years for everything from resecuring inside shoe liners to you-name-it, I thought, why not? I hot glued the edge of the board to the side of the tender mechanism knowing that (I thought and hoped) there is not alot of force on those 2 fingers from the rotating drum. Given that this tinny metal is 50 years old and the actual means of securing that board requires twisting the tab a bit, I am not surprised this happens. The hot glue will really "grab" the fiberboard, but I'm sure it's holding power to the tender metal will be well, a prayer. So far I haven't had a problem, but this is a hidden repair once you put the tender back together. Next time I fool with those metal tabs, I will leave them straight and use the glue like "solder" on the end of wire. Anyone old enough to remember those old time metal tab fasteners from many toys, knows that they break without warning and when least expected. Given the discussion of Flyer motor repairs (very informative thank-you), my question is: can someone make a can motor which can EASILY be swapped into place with a PROVIDED install kit? It would seem to be major upgrade? Or is this not conceivable? Seems that this was mentioned here and they are available, but my impression was that a lot of modification had to be made when used. Any info on that? JohnR

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11914	From: John Foley	Date: 2/25/2001
Subject: Downs Model Trains

Hi Folks I was setup at the Allentown Spring Thaw Train Show Saturday & Sunday Signing up new members and selling some nasg cars When the new owner of Downs Models, Manheim Machine & Tool Co. came over and joined up. He was setup at Russ's old spot at the show. Marlin the owner has the line up and running with a few new paint schemes. So call or write for their updated information at. MM&TC 139 Nevin St. Lancaster, Pa. 17603 Phone 717 295 4966 Home Phone/fax 717 627 3980 John Foley

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11915	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 2/25/2001
Subject: Gene Kelley's Layout

Well, that was a treat. What a great layout and great pictures of it. How many years has it been in the making? Now I am re-inspired to get back to work on my own layout. http://www.trainweb.org/bristol-s-gauge/MembersLayouts/Gene/Gene.html Staying on the NPSG branchline of NASG track, Glenn

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11916	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 2/25/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, February 25, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11917	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 2/25/2001
Subject: Re: eliminating the reverse unit.....

Below is info on a can motor. You would want to run this on DC to bypass your reverse unit. They can be wired to run off the reverse unit but it is more complex and assumes you have a good reverse unit. Motor source: Timko's Repair Depot 349 Grange Hall Road Beavercreek, OH 45430 Phone 937 429 1461 email FTimko@... It is a direct drop in for a Flyer steam engine using the 2 motor mounting holes and includes the worm to drive the AF worm gear. I haven't yet installed it. However, because it is a can motor and will probably draw little current it may not work well with the cow on the track, semaphore, or other accessories that provide a low holding voltage to stop a Flyer engine. Can motor equipped locos tend to not stop but merely slow down for these devices. This may not be a problem for you. A DC conversion of the normal Flyer motor will solve this problem. I think I paid about $27 for the conversion motor but haven't used it yet because it's not as convertible back to AC as a converted Flyer if I want to go that way. I'm saving it to use for a motor that really needs replacing. If you want directions on how to convert a Flyer to DC with polarity reversing with a $1.50 Radio Shack Rectifier see my article on Paul York's site. Also, if you use the can motor you need to retain the runit in the tender even though you don't use it or add weight for good electrical pickup. Ktrdd@... wrote: > > Hi There, > > I, too, had the misfortune of snapping-off the little metal tab that retains > the fingerboard on the top of the tender mechanism (one side), what grief, > followed by inward thought of "oh, s--t!". Having used a hot glue gun most > of the last 2 years for everything from resecuring inside shoe liners to > you-name-it, I thought, why not? I hot glued the edge of the board to the > side of the tender mechanism knowing that (I thought and hoped) there is not > alot of force on those 2 fingers from the rotating drum. Given that this > tinny metal is 50 years old and the actual means of securing that board > requires twisting the tab a bit, I am not surprised this happens. The hot > glue will really "grab" the fiberboard, but I'm sure it's holding power to > the tender metal will be well, a prayer. So far I haven't had a problem, but > this is a hidden repair once you put the tender back together. Next time I > fool with those metal tabs, I will leave them straight and use the glue like > "solder" on the end of wire. Anyone old enough to remember those old time > metal tab fasteners from many toys, knows that they break without warning and > when least expected. > Given the discussion of Flyer motor repairs (very informative thank-you), my > question is: can someone make a can motor which can EASILY be swapped into > place with a PROVIDED install kit? It would seem to be major upgrade? Or is > this not conceivable? Seems that this was mentioned here and they are > available, but my impression was that a lot of modification had to be made > when used. Any info on that? > > JohnR > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11918	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/25/2001
Subject: reverse unit tabs: WAS eliminating the reverse unit.....

AAUGH!! Yes, the bane of anyone restoring tabbed stuff! What I have learned over the years, is that the tab need only be SLIGHTLY twisted to hold the finger board down. I like the idea of hot glue to hold them on. Hmm. . . . When I build my Daylights, I silver solder nuts onto the metal tender body and drill the frame for screws, so the tabs don't matter--besides, it's easier to get in to replace the back-up light, or fix something that I missed the first time around. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11919	From: Robert Wight	Date: 2/25/2001
Subject: Reverse Unit Tabs

I have used five minute epoxy to replace the tab on the reverse unit. JB weld would work fine. I have a couple of tenders I run the devil out of that the finger boards on held on buy five minute epoxy for sometime now. Just file the broke metal shiny and apply a small dot of epoxy and your on your way. Just another suggestion of many. I have very little luck with hot glue. Bob Wight --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Personal Address - Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11920	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 2/25/2001
Subject: (no subject)

Tom Pennington <pjpennington@...> Wrote: Subject: Baldwin Locomotive 21801 <<Ok, I bought a 21801 Baldwin in near perfect <<condition (yes it does have the crack on the back <<deck). I remember from when I was a kid (all the <<brain cells are not gone yet) that the one I had <<then did not pull many cars, and this one does not <<either (3 is a strain). Has anyone experimented <<with this engine to improve tractive effort, or is <<it not worth the time. Can it be easily re-geared <<of re-motored, or would additional weight help. <<Thanks for any info, you guys have been a big help <<getting back into S guage and AF after 35 years or <<so. I strongly recommend the replacement chassis by PA Heritage. Although somewhat pricey at $199, it takes a useless but good looking AF Baldwin into a real good puller with its 8-wheel drive. Joe ===== Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,100 part lines American Models ########################## S-Helper Service Official Licensed Dealer for Gilbert Reproductions joestrainrepair@... Master Charge/Visa __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11921	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 2/25/2001
Subject: Reverse vs fwd

It must be I a need drill press. I tried refacing comms on flat-comm armatures by hand and in a drill. In the case of a drill, I protected the shaft with sleeve of butcher's paper. To face the comms I tried emory paper, sand paper, metal files, wetstones with cutting oil, wood backing, metal backing, grits ranging from 280 to 2000 (wet too). Dang things looked like the reflective foil on an astronaut's helmet. They worked great, but not for long. Must be not getting a really flat and perpendicular interface like you can wit a press. Now how do you remedy this on barrel comm armatures? And yes, I also tried all sorts of washer combinations fore and aft, spring tensions, spring and brush materials. -------------------------- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld (www.BlackBerry.net) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11922	From: Ktrdd@AOL.com	Date: 2/25/2001
Subject: Re: reverse unit tabs: WAS eliminating the reverse unit.....

Hi There again, Fortunately (?) for me, the intact remaining piece of "Tab" was just enough to anchor the fingerboard in position. Therefore it couldn't shift out of position. All it could do would be to rise up, but the glue would (Should) prevent that for the time being. I have seen what I think is Hot glue being used as a wiring retaining harness means inside newer engines, so someone must have faith in it. If the outside edge of a fiberboard snapped off, I would think hot glue might be a quick & dirty fix on old flyer. My experiments with Brazing have been unlucky. Brazing (with a micro torch) will probably be OK with tin, but stay away from pot metal. Pot metal has a low melting temp. JB weld works great, but I wonder about it's durability--I'm keeping my fingers crossed on a repair I used it on--a flyer cowcatcher--(watch out for head-ons!). JohnR

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11923	From: IronHorse	Date: 2/25/2001
Subject: Camera on board questions

I went to the site showing Bruce Crosby's installation of a mini camera in his trains. Good work Bruce. Check it out guy"S" . Questions coming up: Is the video in color ? what is the range of the camera signal. There are lenses out there that require only a 1/16" hole and take up less space. Could one of those lenses be used to replace the x-10 lens? or to be more specific is the wiring from lense (From a different lens mfg.) to the transmitter compatible. I would like to try this project with the smaller lens. Roger Hinds Swing and Sway the S gauge way

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11924	From: IronHorse	Date: 2/25/2001
Subject: "S" guage museum fund raiser.

> Hi Guy"S"; > > For those of you that do not know me, I own a toy and train museum in > New Hampshire. > The main theme of the museum is a large American Flyer (by Gilbert) > model railroad. > I have an offering for you to help raise funds for the museum. > I engrave plastic signs and name tags. > I will engrave a name tag for you with your name on the first line. On > the second line I will engrave > one of the following choices. Ferroequineologist, "S" guager, I > love "S" guage trains. You may choose something else for the second line > if you wish, like the name of your club. > I will engrave a 8" long sign for your train room desk or door. 2 > lines. You choose words for the lines. Same as above if you like > The name tag is $5.00 the 8" sign $10.00 price includes > shipping. > Order a bunch of name tags for your club. 5 or more $4.50 each. > Ask about colors available. > If you need other signs for your train room or place of business > please feel free to ask for > Information. All profits are for the museum. > The museum can be viewed at http://www.travel.to/cofa > > Roger Hinds [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11925	From: IronHorse	Date: 2/25/2001
Subject: Another fund raiser for the museum

I am making a 4 room log cabin (In "S" guage) for my layout at Crossroads of America. HTTP://www.travel.to/cofa. I was wondering if I should make the cabin available to other "S" guagers. AS a kit at $50.00 or ready made at $150.00 Any interest in this possible project? The cabin will be put together by the museum curator. If there is enough interest I will post a picture of the cabin when it is finished, Other buildings made here can be seen at the above web site. Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11926	From: Rick Evans	Date: 2/26/2001
Subject: Loose screw holes........

The screw holes in my 282 loco have been screwed one to many times! Last night both the screws fell out of the little plug-in unit on the rear of the loco, and a few other holes are worn out. Back in my racing days, (Aurora slot cars!), when the screw hole in the plastic car bodies wore out, we would fill the hole with model glue, then insert the screw, glue would harden, making new threads. This lasted for a while, then would have to be done again. What do you all suggest to do with my 282? I would prefer to use all of the original screws. Thanks, Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11927	From: Rick Evans	Date: 2/26/2001
Subject: Up to 651 members now.......

S-Trains is up to a whopping 651 members!! Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11928	From: Alex	Date: 2/26/2001
Subject: Re: access to yahoo

Thanks for posting your message about Yahoo. I have the same experience with Yahoo---and have given up. -- Alex in Kennebunk, Maine -----Original Message----- From: gunrjoe@... [mailto:gunrjoe@...] Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2001 12:40 PM To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [S-Trains] access to yahoo Thanks forn the great posts lately. On target and timely, have learned much. My problem is that yahoo will not let me in. Converted from e-groups already. When I enter all fields for forgotten yahoo password it says no record found. When I try to re-register, it says it does have a record and I cannot register. have been using computers for 10 years. can't figure this out?????? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11929	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 2/26/2001
Subject: Re: Loose screw holes........

Suggest filling the holes with epoxy and inserting the screws before it totally sets up. Rick Evans wrote: > > The screw holes in my 282 loco have been screwed one to many times! > Last night both the screws fell out of the little plug-in unit on the > rear of the loco, and a few other holes are worn out. > > Back in my racing days, (Aurora slot cars!), when the screw hole in > the plastic car bodies wore out, we would fill the hole with model > glue, then insert the screw, glue would harden, making new threads. > This lasted for a while, then would have to be done again. > > What do you all suggest to do with my 282? I would prefer to use all > of the original screws. > > Thanks, > Rick. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11930	From: Scott Brown	Date: 2/26/2001
Subject: Re: Can Motors

Chuck Smith had a post about the TImko can motor. I purchased one and installed it in my 312. It mounts right in where the old motor was and you just wire the headlight, smoke unit and motor in parallel out to the tender where you need a rectifier (sold with the motor for about $4.00) before the reverse unit to run on AC as this is a DC motor. The problem is that the flywheel on the can motor strikes the crossbar on the engine where the tender connects. As a matter of fact, you can't get the motor back in the boiler shell with the crossbar in the normal position. I tried to bend the crossbar down, but it still hit the flywheel. Finally, the crossbar came off altogether and now I have no where to connect the tender. I took some bailing wire and rigged it up to hold the tender to the trailing truck. The engine runs very nicely, but I still haven't figured out how to permanantly attach the tender to the engine. This will not be a problem on the Atlantics, but all the Pacifics have the crossbar. It would work if I could adapt the 312 to be like my 21139 Northern, with the tender connecting to the bar that runs through the trailing truck. Anyway, just thought I'd let you know my experience with the Timko motor. It's around $28 for the motor. Not bad if you can overcome the crossbar problem. Scott Brown Atlantic Coast S Gaugers Washington & Old Dominion Division

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11931	From: Robert Wight	Date: 2/26/2001
Subject: Re: Loose screw holes........

Rick; I would suggest for you to not bother with it myself and mail it to me. The PG&E bill is going to be to much to run it soon anyways. But if you wish to keep it, Chucks suggestion is exactly what i do. but I put a little release agent (oil) on the screw very litely and epoxy the hole and screw when it sets back the screw out. Has worked very well for me. Happy Railroading Bob Wight Rick Evans <comic@...> wrote: What do you all suggest to do with my 282? I would prefer to use all of the original screws. Thanks, Rick. S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Personal Address - Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11932	From: loubaldi@aol.com	Date: 2/26/2001
Subject: Re: Loose screw holes........

--- In S-Trains@y..., "Rick Evans" <comic@d...> wrote: > The screw holes in my 282 loco have been screwed one to many times! > Last night both the screws fell out of the little plug-in unit on the > rear of the loco, and a few other holes are worn out. Rick, Several months ago I was talking to Bob Tufts at a local train show here about making similiar repairs. He recommended a product called PC7 (epoxy based) which when mixed is like a paste which you can fill in or replace the missing boss. After the paste hardens it can be drilled or sanded as needed. I listed their web site below. http://www.pcepoxy.com/Products/products.html Lou

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11933	From: Skip Kendel	Date: 2/26/2001
Subject: Re: SHS wins

I just received an SHS SW-9. WOW!! What an improvement over my old AF steamers. I have an AM S-12 and GP-35 on order. It will be interesting to see how they compare "S"kip ----- Original Message ----- > Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 13:03:28 -0000 > From: "Bob" <YAZFACTS@...> > Subject: S.H.S. WINS...... > > Hello Group, > I was taking a poll on two diesel switchers offered by two > major companies. A.M. and S.H.S. It seems the group prefers S.H.S. > over the A.M.Baldwin in pulling power and in detail.I'm still > weighing over the two models to see which one I want to buy.Either > way I figure I can't go wrong.Thanks for everyones in put. > "S"incerely.........Bob > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11934	From: TPDavis7@aol.com	Date: 2/27/2001
Subject: Re: Can Motors

Scott, In the past I have installed a Dallee can motor in a 310 and had the same problem with the crossbar for the tender hook up. I solved the problem by removing the crossbar, then at the spots where the crossbar was mounted, I drilled and tapped holes to receive 2-56 bolts. Place the crossbar against the bottom head of the 2-56 bolts, run two nuts on each bolt as spacers between the crossbar and the loco body and you will have lowered the crossbar to clear the motor. Hook up the tender to the loco in the normal manner. Tom Davis Atlantic Coast S Gaugers Carolinas Division [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11935	From: Scott Holm	Date: 2/27/2001
Subject: Multimeter with temperature probe

I've just come across a meter that has a temperature probe for measuring from 20 to 1000 degrees celsius. I was thinking this might be handy when an engine is overheating to identify the part of the engine that is the hottest and therefore the most suspect. Has anybody tried this? And what about the source of noise like clicking? It's very difficult sometimes to tell where it's coming from. Does anybody have a way to do this? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11936	From: Alex	Date: 2/27/2001
Subject: Re: Multimeter with temperature probe

Scott: I've used B&K Corp. temp probes with digital multimeters for spotting hot parts on circuit boards. The thermistors are reasonably fast-acting, but you might be able to do just as well with a fingertip. As for clicking and noises, try a stethoscope, or (even better) a length of rubber tubing with one end in your ear. I've done that a few times to zero in on noise and it's surprising how ell it works. Keep it simple! Good luck. -- Alex in Kennebunk, Maine -----Original Message----- From: Scott Holm [mailto:imsscott@...] Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 11:52 AM To: s-trains Subject: [S-Trains] Multimeter with temperature probe I've just come across a meter that has a temperature probe for measuring from 20 to 1000 degrees celsius. I was thinking this might be handy when an engine is overheating to identify the part of the engine that is the hottest and therefore the most suspect. Has anybody tried this? And what about the source of noise like clicking? It's very difficult sometimes to tell where it's coming from. Does anybody have a way to do this? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11937	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 2/27/2001
Subject: S-Video rerun

Thanks again to all of you that made the initial run of the S-gauge video I produced last fall a success. They were all sold out by the start of this year. Here's the scenario and question. I have several people that ordered too late to get one and I put them on a waiting list in case some of the ones ordered didn't pay. I need to know if there is still enough interest out there from those of you that did not get in on the ground floor. I have to order the tapes in cases of 50 in order to make the process affordable for you and me. They are manufactured by 3M and are studio quality tapes. I really don't need 30 or so of them laying around my train room so I'm asking if any friends, etc., might like one. If not, I am not going to make another run and will just have to offer my apologies to those on the waiting list. Volume two is coming along nicely and will have a very diverse selection of layouts and collections. I am even including my own Christmas Layout from 1993 which is the first year I took video of it. Anyone interested in a copy of Volume 1 please email me at Boss31@... Steve Blackburn (Microbudget Productions) TCA, NASG, RMHR Boise, Idaho [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11938	From: John Denholm	Date: 2/27/2001
Subject: loco 282 hole wear-outs

Hi ther; I have had great success with Boss31@... Steve is great to deal with reasonable and knows his stuff when it come's to AF Trains Drop him a line ----> I know he'll help you as he fixed mine lickety -split! John De Boss31@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11939	From: Nick and Becky Colleran	Date: 2/27/2001
Subject: Can motor in a K-5 pacific

The can motor is the best thing to ever happen to a 336 Northern. You can buy 6 of them for the recent eBay price of a Gilbert Super Motor. It's a tight fit for a K-5 much like the Gilbert motor is in an 0-8-0 which leads to the solution: Swap the K-5 cab crossbar and drawbar with one for the 342 0-8-0. It will allow adequate clearance for the flywheel. To allow use of the jack panel, I installed two computer connector "standoffs". These screw into the cab holes and add a quarter inch of hex shapped post which has a threaded screw hole to mount the jack panel. It puts it away from the flywheel but still well under the cab roof. On wiring I recommend using a four prong plug with AC to the light and smoke on the outside pins and DC to the motor on pins 2 & 3. This allows instant smoke if a sequence reverse unit with neutral is used just like the 5 - wire engines. It also doesn't require current through the rectifier and the rectifier will be allowed to drop voltage to the motor without causing a decrease in light or smoke. The wiring diagram for the Gilbert reverse with a DC motor was printed in S Gaugian awhile back. I have Tom Jarcho's drawing handy whenever I wire one of these. For anyone who wants to see the can motor mounted, Wayne Beachy took a picture of the work in progress for the Atlantic Coast S Gaugers web site: http://www.sgauge.homestead.com/NICKCOLLERAN2.html Nick Colleran >Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 19:52:09 -0500 > From: "Scott Brown" <sbrown56@...> >Subject: Re: Can Motors > >Chuck Smith had a post about the TImko can motor. I purchased one and >installed it in my 312. It mounts right in where the old motor was and you >just wire the headlight, smoke unit and motor in parallel out to the tender >where you need a rectifier (sold with the motor for about $4.00) before the >reverse unit to run on AC as this is a DC motor. The problem is that the >flywheel on the can motor strikes the crossbar on the engine where the >tender connects. As a matter of fact, you can't get the motor back in the >boiler shell with the crossbar in the normal position. I tried to bend the >crossbar down, but it still hit the flywheel. Finally, the crossbar came off >altogether and now I have no where to connect the tender. I took some >bailing wire and rigged it up to hold the tender to the trailing truck. The >engine runs very nicely, but I still haven't figured out how to permanantly >attach the tender to the engine. This will not be a problem on the >Atlantics, but all the Pacifics have the crossbar. It would work if I could >adapt the 312 to be like my 21139 Northern, with the tender connecting to >the bar that runs through the trailing truck. Anyway, just thought I'd let >you know my experience with the Timko motor. It's around $28 for the motor. >Not bad if you can overcome the crossbar problem. > >Scott Brown >Atlantic Coast S Gaugers >Washington & Old Dominion Division >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11940	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 2/27/2001
Subject: can motor in a K-5 pacific

Yeah, and you'd better buy the 6 can motors too -- you're gonna need 'em! Remember, you can't repair a can motor. You have to replace it. And I seriously doubt they will last 40+ years as the Gilbert ones have. I just don't see it unless you have a specific reason, or as a last resort for a bad running loco. Some reasons might be that you want to pull super long trains, or you want to run a loco 8 hours a day in a store window. I'm sure there are others. but don't install a can motor in a Flyer steamer just for something to do. Motors are not the weak link in Flyer steamers. The wheels are! White metal centers on steel axles, with white plastic insulators and steel tires, can only take so much strain. Even the Flyer super motor is often too much for them. They are the Dagwood sandwiches of toy train wheels. Motors are not the limiting factors in train length either. Even if a loco could pull 100 cars, other things, such as coupler strength and derailments on curves, would usually keep trains shorter. I am quite satisfied with the performance of my Flyer steam fleet in terms of speed, pulling power, climbing ability, slow speed performance for switching, and especially, durability. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11941	From: Scott Brown	Date: 2/28/2001
Subject: Re: Can Motor

Tom is right that can motors in AF steamers are not the cure all. I tried it in my 312 as a last resort because it ran so poorly. It still runs poorly, so now I will be employing the Dave Horn method of total disassembly and cleaning. If that doesn't do it, then I guess I have a nice paperweight. What a shame as I have both a SIB and SIT 312. Both barely run around the track. Oh, well. Scott Brown Atlantic Coast S Gaugers Washington & Old Dominion Division

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11942	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 2/28/2001
Subject: 21130 new armature

I received and installed the NOS super-barrel commutator armature I mentioned in a previous post. My 21130 now runs as fast at half-speed as it used at full. At full speed it is pure terror in forward and reverse. Ahhhh, now that's more like what these must have run like out of the box 40-some years ago. Pricey, but worth it. I'm holding onto the old armature (as I am with all my 'syndrome' stricken armatures) in the hopes of one day owning a drill press and finding out first hand that refacing the comms with a press is the cure. On the can motors. I think its great that there's one around. Currently my preference is to own, operate, repair, and maintain as close to running like new one of each body-style and drive-train design engine Gilbert manufactured. I'm learning a lot and having a ball. Never a dull moment. While sometimes I wish they were built more robustly like some of the post-war Lionel O-gauge units I've worked on, there's more style and grace to Gilbert's engines. Kinda like chosing between a rugged Russian farm wife, or a ballerina. Kinda. Perhaps someday when I've nothing to do with the stable of engines I have, the can motor will be fun to experiment with. But that's not likely for awhile. The more ACG you run, the more ACG you have to work on, the more you work on them the more you learn, the more you learn, the better they run, the more you run them.....well you get the idea. Have fun with your trains. Dave [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11943	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 2/28/2001
Subject: Re: can motor in a K-5 pacific

In a message dated 2/27/01 11:29:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, jarcho@... writes: << I just don't see it unless you have a specific reason, or as a last resort for a bad running loco. Some reasons might be that you want to pull super long trains, or you want to run a loco 8 hours a day in a store window. I'm sure there are others. but don't install a can motor in a Flyer steamer just for something to do. >> Tom's correct, especially since the Gilbert motors and chassis are readily repaired. Tom's article in the latest S Gaugian is great -- a source of more helpful tips for motor overhauls. Besides, the thought of putting a can motor into a Gilbert Northern gives me "the creeps"! RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11944	From: finerty, paul	Date: 2/28/2001
Subject: can motors

I like the idea of a can motor as a replacement, although I haven't done it to any of my steamers (yet). I'll probably try it as an experiment soon though, just for the fun of it. I love to return a non-running loco to running status by cleaning up the motor and replacing the brushes, but once it's been done I'd like to leave it alone and not have to redo the process. The can motor offers that solution. I don't agree that the can motor won't have a long life, I have items with can motors in them that are from as far back as the seventies and early eighties and they all work fine. It may depend on the quality of the can motor. There are cheaply manufactured ones just as there are finely manufactured ones. You can't classify them all by saying they'll have a short life. That life span might be ten years, or it might be forty years...... Of course, I'd put one in an Alco in a half second if I could find a drop in solution. Oh, and the chassis should have long lasting bushings or bearings too, to get rid of that nasty axle wear issue. I still have about eight chassis with worn axle holes sitting around waiting for a good solution to present itself. I put new bushings from Doug Peck in a couple of them and they work well, but some of the others don't have factory bushings so they'll have to be machined. I don't want to open that can of worms just yet...... Paul Finerty

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11945	From: kathy/tom Gerbasi	Date: 2/28/2001
Subject: Fw: Membership.

If you've got the stomach for it, review the correspondence below and see how the big L is trying to cheat me out of something I already paid for. They wonder why they are losing market share in the O gauge market. Talk about rip offs. charging me $50 to recieve, over three years, their catalog in the mail, get a cheezy button and a useless newsletter, plus the opportunity to buy an O gauge car at an outrageous price, when all I want is to see what ne.w AF they are making. And they are rude while they try to rip me off for one of the pins I paid for. Thank god I'm not some little kid they are trying to rip off. Thank God for SHS, they understand what the words "customer service" mean. Tom Gerbasi From: kathy/tom Gerbasi <kgerbasi@...> To: LIONEL RAIL ROADER CLUB <LRRC@...> Cc: talktous <talktous@...> Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 9:08 AM Subject: Re: Membership. > You are incorrect, I had already received my 1998 button prior to my renewal > in 1998. I am upset by your adversarial tone, and I am upset by assumption > of facts not in evidence. I hope your superiors are in full support of your > rudeness and lack of understanding manner ( I note that you did not give > your name in your email). I am being punished because I renewed early and > did not wait for my membership to expire in 1998. In essence, BECAUSE I GAVE > YOU MY MONEY EARLY I am being abused by you. If the 2001 button does not > arrive without the payment of further funds, I shall seek legal redress, and > investigate the possibility of a class action. > > Tom Gerbasi > ----- Original Message ----- > From: LIONEL RAIL ROADER CLUB <LRRC@...> > To: <kgerbasi@...> > Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 8:45 AM > Subject: Re: Membership. > > > > Mr. Gerbasi, you paid $50.00 in 1998 for a 3 year membership. That > > entitled you to a membership for 1998, 1999 and 2000. The membership is > > supposed to be renewed in 2001. You should have received a 1998, 1999 > > and 2000 button along with the quarterly issues of the Inside Track > > newsletter and the catalogs that Lionel produced. You have not renewed > > for 2001 to be entitled to the 2001 button. Because of the > > re-organization of the club you are remaining on the mailing list and > > will receive the catalogs and newsletters. Once the club has decided > > what the changes will be they will notify you by mail and tell you how > > to renew and what you will receive for 2001. We hope this explains how > > the club works and clears up any confusion. > > > > Thank you, > > LRRC > > > > >>> "kathy/tom Gerbasi" <kgerbasi@...> 02/28/01 08:07AM >>> > > Let me get this right. You are telling me that even though I PAID for > > a > > three year membership that doesn't expire until 4/01, you are not going > > to > > send me a pin for the year 2001 THAT I ALREADY PAID FOR until you get > > some > > more money from me, and you won't tell me how much money until you > > reorganize. > > > > I think you had better rethink your position and I think you ought to > > discuss this with corporate council. If not I think the Attorney > > General of > > Michigan needs to talk to you about what consitiutes MAIL FRAUD.. > > > > Tom Gerbasi > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: LIONEL RAIL ROADER CLUB <LRRC@...> > > To: <kgerbasi@...> > > Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 8:48 AM > > Subject: Membership. > > > > > > > Mr. Gerbasi, the club is being re-organized at this time. They are > > not > > > renewing any memberships or allowing new members to join. Once the > > > details have been decided for the club they will notify everyone by > > > mail. You will remain on the mailing list until that time. > > Membership > > > cards and buttons are usually sent once the memberships are renewed, > > and > > > for now they are on hold pending the changes with the club. > > > > > > Thank you, > > > LRRC > > > > > > Name: Tom Gerbasi > > > Email: kgerbasi@... > > > Comments: Please forward this to the most appropriate person at the > > > Lionel Railroader Club. My Information states that I am enrolled in > > the > > > club until 4/01 and I received my new catalog okay but I don't yet > > have > > > a membership card or a button for this year yet. Is it coming? Also, > > > will I be able to renew my membership online, or do I have to do it > > in > > > writing. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Tom Gerbasi> > > > > > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11946	From: David	Date: 2/28/2001
Subject: Re: Fw: Membership.

Sorry Tom, but I think its quite clear your not entitled to a 2001 button, or anything else for the 2001 year. If I read this correctly, you paid $50 for a 3 year membership. That, as they point out, is for 1998, 1999, and 2000... not 2001. What I see is that you would need to renew by 4/1/2001 to start your 2001, 2002, 2003 membership. However, this is not possible yet as they are not allowing renewals or new memberships for the period starting in 2001 yet, as they have not worked out the fine details. Once they know what the details are for the memberships starting in 2001, then it looks like you will need to pay what ever fee they come up with, and if its a three year membership, you will get the years 2001, 2002, and 2003. Thats how I see it from an outside observers perspective.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11947	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 2/28/2001
Subject: steam loco commutator wear

I would just like to report that this week a customer brought me two poor running Flyer steamers. Both showed elliptical wear marks near the commutator slots. I sanded them down with sandpaper and a hardwook block as described in the Roundhouse; also replaced the brushes and brush springs. Both locos immediately ran like bats out of hell. No lathe. No drill press. No problems. A drill press or lathe is only required to reface commutators that are warped or buckled. Warped or buckled commutators are not routine or common conditions in Flyer steam locos. In fact they are quite unusual. If present, they are an indication that the phenollic base of the commutator is deteriorating. If so, the deterioration is likely to continue, throwing the commutator out of whack yet again. Moreover, no one has mentioned that the commutator also serves to absorb and radiate the heat produced by brush arcing. If a lot of metal is removed from the plates, they can no longer perform this task, and the armature is more likely to overheat. I have seen THIS condition several times. The amount of metal that can be removed before this overheating starts to occur is limited. For several years, I have been trying to find out why so much arcing occurs at the brush/commutator joints of these locos. It is hard on the commutator plates. I ask again: Why do flyer steam locos have so much more arcing than Lionel ones with the same basic design? Why does the arcing occur more at one brush than the other, and why does this change if the motor is run in the opposite direction? Can anything be done to limit this arcing electronically? Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11948	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 2/28/2001
Subject: steam loco commutator wear

Here's one more thought to add to my previous post. Flyer steam loco motors have a great deal of play in them, both lateral and forward-and-back. The oil impregnated sintered bronze armature bearings were probably never efficient at sustaining lubrication, and grit and dirt can always enter the bearings easily, since they are open frame motors. All such locos show wear at these bearings unless they are mint. The bearings of the helical geared axle are also usually worn, being soft white metal that wears easily. There is likely to be a lot of play in such a motor. In fact, without a certain amount of play, a worm geared loco will not go around a Flyer curve. Because of all this play, even if the face of a commutator is perfectly true, the contact between commutator brushes and plates is likely to be imperfect anyway. Therefore, trueing the commutator face to close tolerances should not be a priority. To me, the only scenario under which close tolerance trueing would make sense is if one replaced the armature bearings and the axle bearings with new ones, also machined to close tolerances. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11949	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 2/28/2001
Subject: S_SCALE KITS

Here is a site I found that offers S-Scale kits.....Have not seen or tried their items......Mike S. www.laserkit.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11950	From: g-wolfgang1@juno.com	Date: 2/28/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 927

PLEASE ADD MY NEW E-MAIL ADDRESS "G-WOLFGANG5@..." TO THE DAILY DIGEST LIST. I WILL LATER CANCEL THE OLD ADDRESS TOM HILLERY

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11951	From: IronHorse	Date: 2/28/2001
Subject: Armature

> > Hello -- What's this? A super barrel Armature ?? I missed out on this I guess. > > Is this a replacement for AF Gilbert armatures? What locomotives is it available > for? > Where can I get these? Who makes them? > > Roger Hinds > > david_horn@... wrote: > > > I received and installed the NOS super-barrel commutator armature I > > mentioned in a previous post. My 21130 now runs as fast at half-speed as it > > used at full. At full speed it is pure terror in forward and reverse. > > Ahhhh, now that's more like what these must have run like out of the box > > 40-some years ago. Pricey, but worth it. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11952	From: Ross	Date: 2/28/2001
Subject: AF Excitement

Excitement 1 My Christmas Toy Train Open House in December offered a little excitement. My American Flyer 336 was pulling about 20 cars around my upper suspended railway on the inside track. Neighborhood kids were at the throttle most of the time and of course they like speed. My AF 350 Royal Blue was on the second (outside) track going in the opposite direction. The AF 336 lost the bolt holding the trailing trucks. That caused the AF 336 to derail and depart its tracks as it was passing my MTH RR Crossing Signal. The AF 336, Engine and Tender, fell through an arc descending about 6 feet to my table top layout. It impacted just in front of my Plasticville Post Office with a LOUD thump. The impact damaged two diecast Johnny Lightning Post Office trucks carrying stamps. The Engine crushed one section of Dept. 56 fence as well. A Portlines Hobby billboard was damaged as well. The first car aft of the tender tangled in the wires for the RR Crossing Signal halting its descent and the rest of the cars stopped mostly on the tracks. The show must go on, so I picked up the Engine and Tender and moved them off the layout. My blood pressure was elevated to say the least. I resumed operation on my lower layout to entertain my guests. After the Open House, I examined the AF 336. I found a slightly bent bar between the Engine and the Tender. I'll have the Engine and Tender checked out, and the bold reattached, but they appear to have survived with only minor dents. At the time the crash happened I suspected total destruction. Now that it's over, I wish that someone had caught it on video tape. Long live American Flyer. Excitement 2 Today the Seattle area suffered an earthquake registering 6.8. We lost some lamps and ceramic things. In my train room a framed AF ad came off the wall and knocked over my AF 772D Checkerboard Water Tower. Approximately fifteen flat buildings and trees fell from my suspended railway (see above) onto the layout below. A Plasticville School suffered a broken roof and a ceramic house was destroyed. And, coincidentally, the Portlines Billboard (see above) is intact except that every supporting member was sheared off the back. When the flat buildings fell they took two AF cars with them. My S-Helper engine remained on the tracks as did 18 of the 20 cars behind it. In my office I have 4 tiers of Railrax covered with engines (my original AF 470-471-473, an AF 499 and an AF 302) and twenty-six cars. Five of six cars on the top tier fell but the AF 499 remained in place. Everything else held fast. I experienced some loss and I'll have to spend a lot of time getting everything back into place. Will I be better prepared for the next one? What will you do before it hits you? Ross & Sandra Roberts 4623 194th Avenue SE Issaquah WA 98027 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11953	From: castironv8@aol.com	Date: 2/28/2001
Subject: Excitement

Regarding Ross & Sandra Roberts' story of the crash of their 336 at Christmas, I had a somewhat similar experience with my 322 SIT a few weeks ago. I hit a switch the wrong way while going full speed. The loco and tender rolled off the platform and down toward the solid concrete basement floor, 42 inches below. I shrieked in horror!!! Upon examination, one set of wheels popped out of the tender trucks, I just put them back into place, and the peened sides of the trailing truck of the loco let loose, dislodging the wheels. A little epoxy to fix the trailing truck and I was back in business. Boy that old Flyer stuff was built. Regards, Curtis Dorwart [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11954	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 2/28/2001
Subject: excitement

You guys were pretty lucky with those accidents. I once repaired a 336 for a guy. The loco had gone off a pool table at full speed. There were 36 separate things wrong with it, including a twisted armature shaft. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11955	From: Ktrdd@AOL.com	Date: 2/28/2001
Subject: Re: AF Excitement

Hi There, (Comfortttttt Zone) My AF 336 took a 3'+ plunge off a switch onto a concrete basement floor in 1975. The only damage was a broken driver wheel and a broken tender step. The wheel was replaced and I have repaired the step now twice- (dam that epoxy). The engine runs well still now; the same as before then. Long live AF! This 336 is presently sitting on a short siding waiting for it's next assignment. It's original wiring harness between eng & tender has bare wire showing, but it still is running OK. A maintenance task on order? I can't imagine how this heavyweight survived it's fall--nor yours? My AF 303 plastic tender got stepped on by my father in 1962. He broke the sintered truck on the lead wheels. That was repaired also. It still runs fine. That accident left a "divot" spot in an AF straight track section. I still have that piece somewhere here. Many tears from that mishap. Really sad story this week--- Sioux Falls, SD (Tues paper 2/27): AF collector dies in fire at his residence. He also had Lionel stuff. John R

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11956	From: Mark Preman	Date: 2/28/2001
Subject: AmericanFlyer Trains for Sale

The new list is up, Bro! Click on this: http://www.americanflyertrains.com ===== Mark B. Preman AmericanFlyerTrains.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11957	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 2/28/2001
Subject: Re; steam loco commutator wear

Tom Jarcho wrote: >A drill press or lathe is only required to reface commutators that >are >warped or buckled. I suppose it depends on how much metal must be removed. The 316 that I mentioned had the arcing-ravaged plates that you described. It took more working to get past those indentations than it did to even-out the warped plates of the 336. >Warped or buckled commutators are not routine or common conditions >in Flyer steam locos. In fact they are quite unusual. That's VERY good to hear! I'd hate to encounter this often. >If present, they are an indication that the phenollic base of the >commutator is deteriorating. If so, the deterioration is likely to >continue, throwing the commutator out of whack yet again. The 336 was done several years ago. So far, it's held steady. I'll keep y'all posted. >Why do flyer steam locos have so much more arcing than Lionel ones >with the same basic design? I haven't noticed that difference. I'm not saying the observation is untrue, I just haven't seen it. The few Lionel motors I could see into during operation appeared to exhibit arcing comparable to AF motors, but I haven't observed very many. (Those 3-rail guys like to run things REALLY fast.) Most of the arcing is caused by the inductively reactive nature of the motor itself. Inductors (coils), once they get current running through them, tend to keep the current going. If the circuit is broken suddenly (which happens when a brush moves from one plate to another) the armature coil will greatly increase the voltage at it's terminals (for a short time) to try to keep the current going. The voltage "spike" that appears across the terminals will be considerably higher than the 18V max that your transformer will deliver. (It's analogous to abruptly stopping a heavy railroad car that is coasting. The force of the impulse transmitted to whatever is stopping the car can be much greater than the force that got the car moving, if the moving force is applied over a long time and the car is stopped quickly. You guys recall your high school physics, right? Remember "Impulse and Momentum"?) Anyway, the sparks occur when the current path through the energized armature coil is broken. The voltage spike occurs, and it is high enough and fast enough to shove electrons across the gap between the brush and the plate it has just left. So you get a spark. And ozone. And a teensy bit of damage to one edge of the plate. >Why does the arcing occur more at one brush than the other, and why >does >this change if the motor is run in the opposite direction? The arcing appears to be worse at one brush because of your viewing point. For each brush, one side is "approaching" plates (making connections) and the other side is "departing" plates (breaking connections). The brush side leaving plates will arc more because the current in that coil is being cut off abruptly, resulting in a high voltage spike and a strong arc on that side. The other side of each brush is connecting to a dead coil, so the voltage change there will be only whatever you're feeding the motor, resulting in a smaller arc. One brush seems to be doing the most arcing because you're seeing that side of it. The other brush is arcing just as badly on the side which is away from you. The visible "approaching/departing" sides are reversed in your frame of reference when the motor reverses. >Can anything be done to limit this arcing electronically? A small non-polarized capacitor connected across the input terminals is often used to reduce brush arcing in DC motors. It's done a lot with RC race cars. The value used is usually around 0.01 microfarad, 100 volts. It's function is to "bleed off" the voltage spike before it can cause an arc. Such a device might reduce arcing in an AF motor as well. One experiment I've wanted to do (but never seem to get around to) is to install a cap in an AF steamer to see it's effect. It could be installed easily (but temporarily) by wrapping each lead around one brush sleeve at the brush holder, outside the motor. (When installing anti-arcing caps, it is best to get them as close electrically and physically to the brushes as possible.) Maybe someone here would like to try it. Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11958	From: The Reis's	Date: 2/28/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Earthquake

I think Dick pretty well summed it up. The news media will find every injury and every scrap of damage. I am about 10 miles north of Dick's place. I work about 5 miles north of home in Bothell. This quake wasn't that jarring, it was like riding on a series of waves for about a minute. It just went on and on. I was in a second floor conference room of a typical metal beam, cement wall structure office building and we swayed a lot but ceiling tiles were the only casualties. I worried about my shelves and layout at home as I don't have protection in front of the cars, they just sit on the shelves with the flanges in slots I cut in with the table saw. To make a long story short, no damage, no cars on the floor, nothing. The cracks in the house sheetrock from the last earthquake in 97 or 98 didn't even open again. So I guess this time I am the lucky one. I feel bad for Ross and his layout and Dick's trains. (He is only about 8 miles east of Dick. One interesting thing I heard on a sports talk station from a steelworker working on top of the new Seahawks stadium that there may be considerable damage as they bent a lot of unsupported steel framing and scaffolding. He stated that they thought the whole thing was collapsing on its own until they realized it was "only" an earthquake shaking them instead. An interesting perspective to say the least. Eric Reis Kenmore, Wa. By the way, you guys in California, we may need some of our weather back, this dry stuff is getting old. The moss is turning brown and my web feet are drying out. -----------Original message 1 ------------- From Ross Roberts: Today the Seattle area suffered an earthquake registering 6.8. We lost some lamps and ceramic things. In my train room a framed AF ad came off the wall and knocked over my AF 772D Checkerboard Water Tower. Approximately fifteen flat buildings and trees fell from my suspended railway (see above) onto the layout below. A Plasticville School suffered a broken roof and a ceramic house was destroyed. And, coincidentally, the Portlines Billboard (see above) is intact except that every supporting member was sheared off the back. When the flat buildings fell they took two AF cars with them. My S-Helper engine remained on the tracks as did 18 of the 20 cars behind it. In my office I have 4 tiers of Railrax covered with engines (my original AF 470-471-473, an AF 499 and an AF 302) and twenty-six cars. Five of six cars on the top tier fell but the AF 499 remained in place. Everything else held fast. I experienced some loss and I'll have to spend a lot of time getting everything back into place. Will I be better prepared for the next one? What will you do before it hits you? Ross -----Original Message 2 ----- From: Richard Karnes All -- Several of you expressed concern about the earthquake here. My household (people, house, contents) is OK. 200,000 people are without power, but -- as you can see -- we have power. The quake was Richter magnitude 6.8, lasted about 30 seconds, and was centered about 50 miles SSW of us and 30 miles deep. As such, it was felt for hundreds of miles, but the effects at the surface was attenuated by the great vertical distance to the source. I was replacing a pair of trucks on my 0-6-0 camelback, off in the corner of my basement, when the quake hit. I knew immediately what it was, and moved to a door frame (as you're supposed to do) to wait it out. My wife dove under the dining-room table. Our house made a LOT of noise as it shook. But it's wood frame construction, so all is OK. The sensation was quite interesting -- like being on a barge in a stormy sea. Three pieces of my railroad equipment were damaged. One was a Jim Beam "Jupiter" bottle whose stack burst as it hit the floor. I think I can glue the pieces together. My SouthWind Pacemaker ("Swallowtail") observation car hit the carpeted floor, landing on its rear coupler. The coupler broke off, and the steam line is severely twisted, but the car itself is unscathed. The last item that fell was a scratchbuilt Niagara boiler, and it lost its sand dome. A few cars were hanging off their shelves, but did not fall. Stuff on the track remained on the track and did not derail (!). But some moved a fair distance down the tracks. Dick Karnes The topic is S Scale please keep your messages 'on-topic'. To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11960	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 2/28/2001
Subject: ATTENTION !!!! Re; steam loco commutator wear

To emphasize something about the anti-arcing capacitors mentioned in my last post: As I said, use NON-polarized capacitors. If the capacitor you're considering has a + or - sign on one of the terminals it's polarized, and may explode if AC is applied to it. The value noted, 0.01 microfarad, 100 volt, is a good place to start experimenting. I wouldn't go any lower in voltage, but a higher capacitance value (say, 0.02 microfarad) could also be tested. Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11961	From: mvandiver2@aol.com	Date: 3/1/2001
Subject: Falling trains

Some of you have seen my hanging trains on Paul Yorke's web site (Mike's Overhead Layout). When I first put up an overhead while we were living in Charleston, S.C., I had it in our kitchen and dinnette area. I can not tell you the number of times my 45 year old 322 fell from the tracks and would land either on a kitchen counter or the floor. Well, that same engine is still ruinning the tracks today! Oh, how I wish my body and motor functioned as well!!!! Gettin' a little old...Mike Vandiver [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11962	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 3/1/2001
Subject: EARTHQUAKE

We (on the East Coast) have heard about all these earthquakes and loss of life around the world. Loss of life is a terrible tragedy. But it is also sad to hear of the losses of one of our own friends. If your collection is really valuable put it in a vault otherwise enjoy it as long as you can. Staying on the NPSG branchline of NASG track, Glenn, as long as I can. Ross Roberts wrote: I experienced some loss and I'll have to spend a lot of time getting everything back into place. Will I be better prepared for the next one? What will you do before it hits you? Ross & Sandra Roberts 4623 194th Avenue SE Issaquah WA 98027

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11963	From: W. Thomas Boussum	Date: 3/1/2001
Subject: Spectacular 'S' gauge train wrecks.

S Gaugers, I rea-d Ross and Sandra Roberts post about the wreck of the airborne 336 and can commisreate, having experienced a similar situation with a Santa Fe warbonnet PA/PB-1 combination at the point of an extruded aluminum passenger consist. There was a group of about five of us in the Edgewood sneighborhood of Schuylkill Haven, PA in the fifties. One of the group had a nice big, clean basement under his home, where we built up a club layout. After operating about six months we decided to expand and put up a couple more 4X8 tables and started our scenery work. The original part of the layout was conncted to the new by several bridges to permit rail and highway connections from the old to the new. Onm this one occasion, the lightest of our work crew was seated on the section adjacent to the original 12X8 table. I was running my brand-new Santa Fe (can't stop the trains for layout work). Just as the passenger train came onto one of the bridges we had a rare (for Pennsylvania that is) high Richter count earthquake. The new section went down with Jim aboard, and my diesel and at least one of the coaches crashed about 225 S scale feet to the concrete floow, paded only with some corrugated cardboard that we were planning to throw out that night. Of couirse I feared the worst. I ran over to my pride and joy and picked up the pieces. The only casualties were the horns on the PA-1, the drawbar linking the PA and PB units, and a couple of scratches. Te corrugated cardboard apparently cushioned the blow enough to prevent any serious damage to the train. The coaches escaped without apparent damage. Istill own the set. I don't remember how many S scale people met their Maker that day. Video cameras were still in the distant future at the point, but I wish someone had had a 16mm sound movie camera to record the event for posterity. I have another story from about 20 years later about my 312 SIT Pennsy K5 with pulmore wheels that reflects what Tom Jarcho wrote recently about train length limits. I decided to see how many cars the K5 could haul. She is the fastest of my AF trains, but she can pull a load. I had combination (Plasticville) gas station, used car lot, and junk yard at the one end of my layout. There were probably 25 freight strung on to the K5 on AC Gilbert track. The K5 was making like a Reading Consolidation slowly but powerfully pulling the freight consist until it got to that turn. The freight cars fell into the junk yard (at least three of them and crushed a few wrecked Matchbox cars that my son had previously destroyed. (I remember seeing the rear of the split grille Mercury Cougar as a Lehigh and New England hopper lay on it. Neither of these two events ever made the headlines. W. Thomas Boussum "If you want to bake an apple pie from scratch you must start by creating the universe." Carl Sagan in Cosmos. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11964	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 3/1/2001
Subject: Barrel comm armature

By Super-barrel comm armature, I was referring to the 3/4" thick winding armature used by Gilbert in many 5 digit Hudsons (e.g. 21130), K-5's (21115), and Northerns (e.g. 21140). Barrel refers to the round instead earlier production flat commutator design. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11965	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 3/1/2001
Subject: 21130 recall

Last night after running this engine forward and reverse, alone and with cars, the syndrome crept back onto the scene. Now it runs faster in both directions than it used to with the old armature, but definitely once again it runs faster and with more pulling (actually pushing) power in reverse than forward. You could almost see the cross over as it ran. First fwd was marginally faster than reverse, then both directions were about the same, then finally reverse surpassed its counter direction. Weird. I'll try shifting the position of the armature more forward (reverse pushes the armature into the forward bearing, presently it nicely centered in fwd) and further minimizing armature travel (pretty minimal now) in an effort to replicate reverse-running conditions for the armature and gear-train. I'll also grease the short end of the armature (had it oiled lightly, but one ol' pro recommended a little grease). Other than that, I'm stumped, and this one's just gonna have to be this way. This is the first 'syndrome' victim for which a NOS armature has failed to cure its ailment on a lasting basis. Perhaps its something to do with wear in all elements of the drive train (motor bushings, axle holes, drive gear on axle, etc.). Conclusions - - the 'syndrome' can sometimes still be a mystery, and generally I like the pulling power and operation of flat super-motor (326, 336) engines better than barrel-comm models. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11966	From: William H Trefts	Date: 3/1/2001
Subject: Tootsie Toys

Greetings! Just returned from a successful hunting spree. Found a TootsieToy tank to put on my unloading car. It even has 1 1/2 Cannons on it. (The main cannon is broken part way down.) But, does anyone know of a source for the tires? These were white, but have mostly become goo. Thanks! Bill ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11967	From: David	Date: 3/1/2001
Subject: Re: Tootsie Toys

Bill try this link..... http://www.classictintoy.com/replace.html They carry/supply many usefull parts including tires & wheels for old toys including Tootsies.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11968	From: John Foley	Date: 3/1/2001
Subject: Ads for NASG convention

Hi Folks Just a note to let you all know that we will have ads in the following publications for our Steamtown 2001 Convention Model Railroad News May, June & July NMRA Bulletin May & June S Gaugain May Also I found about five free train show websites we are listed at. I sent in letters to MR, CTT and RMC for their Schedules section. MR & MRC are both coming to the Convention. I also asked Model Railroad News if they could attend, they can't but they offered to let someone do a write up on it with photos, they suggested Roy Hoffman I thought this was a good idea, We both asked Roy and he agreed. I am still waiting to hear from Classic Toy Trains. Also I plan on talking with 3 Local TV stations and invite them to see what S is about. Any other ideas are most welcome Thanks John Foley

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11969	From: Nick and Becky Colleran	Date: 3/1/2001
Subject: Comments on can motors

The can motor I installed replaced an early motor from a SIT engine circa 46-47 which was in a 336 Northern and obviously the wrong motor with questionable pulling power, along with bad wiring and the wrong reverse unit. I also pulled the wheels, fixed the whitewalls that were loose and realigned with the tool from Triple S for that purpose. The 312 on my bench was similar and has been repainted as well as striped for Pennsy. > >Tom is right that can motors in AF steamers are not the cure all. I tried it >in my 312 as a last resort because it ran so poorly. It still runs poorly, >so now I will be employing the Dave Horn method of total disassembly and >cleaning. If that doesn't do it, then I guess I have a nice paperweight. >What a shame as I have both a SIB and SIT 312. Both barely run around the >track. Oh, well. > >Scott Brown >Atlantic Coast S Gaugers >Washington & Old Dominion Division > >On the can motors. I think its great that there's one around. Currently my >preference is to own, operate, repair, and maintain as close to running like >new one of each body-style and drive-train design engine Gilbert >manufactured. I'm learning a lot and having a ball. Never a dull moment. A good Gilbert motor is a fine thing >..... there's more style and grace to Gilbert's engines. Amen to that. > the can motor will be fun to experiment with. The Timko really is fun to use. It can go into a 332 DC and removed at any time to put back to original, >Tom's correct, especially since the Gilbert motors and chassis are readily >repaired. That assumes it has a motor to be repaired. Mine did not! >Besides, the thought of putting a can motor into a Gilbert Northern gives >me "the creeps"! Since I had no motor to lose, I tried the Timko. It is a major improvement over the wrong Gilbert motor. I don't intend to remove the super motor from my other 336 even though the "canned" Northern runs better at the moment due to my complete overhaul of everything else. > >RB >.................I don't agree that the can motor won't >have a long life, I have items with can motors in them that are from as far >back as the seventies and early eighties and they all work fine. It may >depend on the quality of the can motor. There are cheaply manufactured ones >just as there are finely manufactured ones. > >Paul Finerty I plan to run the Timko can motor for 8-10 hours and see how it holds up. I appears to be the best I've seen and the worm gear, screws and mounting plate make things better. Nick Colleran

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11970	From: gino restivo	Date: 3/1/2001
Subject: re; rev is faster ,

hi, to all over the years repairing trains lionel, flyer , marx,ives, etc, etc, etc , the problem appears mostly in flyer , but i have seen it in others don't dispair it can be eliminated , 90 % of the time it is cured by machining the armature , BUT did you chk for a bent armture shaft before trueing / machining comm, did you use a new set of brush's- springs at reassmbly ,is their any dirt/dust/oil in brush tubes ? how snug are the brush tubes? is their any binding in chassis ? turn loco upside down and turn armature for this , try both direction's . take out armature and rotate wheels , starting with the geared set first .. IS their any TINSEL around axle's , string ? even a small amount of dirt build up,is brush brackett cracked / broken ? their may be other things to look for but i think you passed by it..... you also should look at comm from an angle to see if it is really flat - if not paint it with marker and machine again ... hope these hints can help someone , AMERICAN FLYER TRAINS are the BEST , and theirs the rest .......,best quality,scale size, great runners ,etc.... p.s. I have never seen in any flyer trains of any year with any WHITE METAL BEARINGS or even any repaired trains with same .... lionel does not have any bearing on comm side of 85% of their postwar items ! comments / questions are welcome ! gino / GSR [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11971	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/1/2001
Subject: Re: Comments on can motors

Nick, What is the worm like on these can motors? Are the motors made with them? I'm thinking about the worn worm problem (say that fast five times) and possible solutions. One scenario: turning down the armature shaft a bit and attaching a new worm AND a bearing (bushing) to fit in the chassis that mates with the worm's shaft, yet fits the original chassis bearing hole. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11972	From: Nick and Becky Colleran	Date: 3/1/2001
Subject: Armatures and steps (root canal repair)

Armature - Cylinder (barrel) vs disk commutator This armature is a Gilbert part from the later 5 digit supermotor engines such as the Northern. Commutator is a cylinder and brushes are to left and right sides facing center rather than parallel pushing against a disk. >> Is this a replacement for AF Gilbert armatures? What locomotives is it >available >> for? >> Where can I get these? E Bay >> Who makes them? Gilbert did. >> Roger Hinds >> >> david_horn@... wrote: >> >> > I received and installed the NOS super-barrel commutator armature I >> > mentioned in a previous post. My 21130 now runs as fast at half-speed >as it >> > used at full. At full speed it is pure terror in forward and reverse. >> > Ahhhh, now that's more like what these must have run like out of the box >> > 40-some years ago. Pricey, but worth it. Steps (root canal repair) ................ I came upon the idea to fix Flyer tender steps while getting a root canal done. I call it "drill and fill". Reattach the step with supperglue. Then drill through the chassis into the step with a wire gauge bit the size of a paperclip (#56 prox.) Fill the hole with superglue (Zap-A-Gap) and insert the paperclip pin. When set, cut the clip flush, file flat and paint. It won't break easily unless it drops just right onto a concrete floor. My mint 332 flew off the layout when I first brought it out for my kids layout in 1975. The old Flyer grease (wax) had the loco running slow until the wax softened. Then the engine sped up and flew off the table onto the tile-on- concrete floor. Ever since I have always scraped out the original grease and replaced it with Lubriplate (a white grease) and never left an engine running during warm up without watching it . >My AF 336 took a 3'+ plunge off a switch onto a concrete basement floor in >1975. The only damage was a broken driver wheel and a broken tender step. >The wheel was replaced and I have repaired the step now twice- (dam that >epoxy).

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11973	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 3/2/2001
Subject: 21130 renewed

I added 2 drops of medium Labelle oil and one drop of Gear Lube oil (thicker low-run oi) to the aft end motor bushing and regained a ton of responsiveness and speed from this engine. It is apparently very sensitive to that bushing not having enough lubrication and without a wick may need tending to once in awhile more often than usual (Mike T if you're out there you were right). All is well in 21130 land again. It runs very well, and nearly exactly equally well in both directions. The new armature was worth it. -------------------------- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld (www.BlackBerry.net) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11974	From: Nick and Becky Colleran	Date: 3/2/2001
Subject: Fwd: Re: [S-Trains] Comments on can motors

I failed to copy the list in my response to Mr. Dewey last night: >At 03:09 PM 2/28/01 -0800, you wrote: >>Nick, >> What is the worm like on these can motors? > >Fits right into the Gilbert chassis with no modification > >>Are the motors made with them? > >Yes. No cutting of the old armature shaft to fit to the new can. > >>I'm thinking about the worn worm problem (say that fast five times) >>and possible solutions. One scenario: turning down the armature shaft a bit >>and attaching a new worm AND a bearing (bushing) to fit in the chassis that >>mates with the worm's shaft, yet fits the original chassis bearing hole. > >Sounds like more than $25 worth of work! Of course, I once spent the time to >rewind a 1947 RIE unit from a mint 312 I acquired. To fix the my missing motor, >the can was great. For under $30 including rectifier from Radio Shack added, >I highly recommend trying one, especially if you like to run trains for long >periods pulling lots of cars. Timko got 4 motors to me within a week............. ................ I'm sure Timko has >plenty ........ although demand is up since I have been running my >mouth as well as my trains. Our list friends in England ordered 4 and I >think Joe's Train Repair did the same. ................................ >Nick Colleran

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11975	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 3/2/2001
Subject: Low number vs high number Alcos

I am considering purchasing an ALCO ABA set and was wondering if there is any significant quality difference between the low number units (360, 470 490 etc) vs the 21### series. I guess the higher numbers are later versions (late 50's early 60's) but was wondering if the quality of the motors etc was better or worse than the earlier ones. Any help would be appreciated. I realize I might be opening a can of worms here, but $300-$800 is a big difference. Opinions very welcome. Thanks, Tom _---_---_---______--__--___+-----+||] [||####### B & O #####|______||_____ || pjpennington@... __| [][] |__ || ||_______________________/ _| B&O |___\_|| | ||| | | | | | | / | 4212 | # ||| | []|=|==================o=====o==================|=|[] /|-||(0)|=|(0)|=|(O) |_________| (0)|=|(0)|=|(O)||-|\ ======================================================== [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11976	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 3/2/2001
Subject: Re: Low number vs high number Alcos

If you operate them, try to avoid very early diesels that have the power truck without a pivot located at the middle of the power truck frame. They are prone to jump the track when pwer is applied too quickly. You can spot this by pivoting the power truck front to back and noting whether the pivot point is at the center of the side frame or at the top munting of the truck. I'm not sure of the numbers, but I have an old PA that came with link couplers and had the unpivoted truck. If you're careful not to do jackrabbit starts it's OK. Is that a 360? Tom Pennington wrote: > > I am considering purchasing an ALCO ABA set and was wondering if there is > any significant quality > difference between the low number units (360, 470 490 etc) vs the 21### > series. I guess the higher > numbers are later versions (late 50's early 60's) but was wondering if the > quality of the motors etc > was better or worse than the earlier ones. Any help would be > appreciated. I realize I might be opening > a can of worms here, but $300-$800 is a big difference. Opinions very welcome. > Thanks, > Tom > > _---_---_---______--__--___+-----+||] > [||####### B & O #####|______||_____ > || pjpennington@... __| [][] |__ || > ||_______________________/ _| B&O |___\_|| > | ||| | | | | | | / | 4212 | # ||| | > []|=|==================o=====o==================|=|[] > /|-||(0)|=|(0)|=|(O) |_________| (0)|=|(0)|=|(O)||-|\ > ======================================================== > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11977	From: Dnnis A Troini	Date: 3/2/2001
Subject: Re: Comments on can motors

Can solution I have Used (I Know i'll catch flak) was to place motor in a tender shell, use 2 universals to connect t0 shaft. Have also gone so far as changing out worm and spiral gear on axle with quality HO parts and gear down the can and run universals under the floor plates. Add weight to tender and engine, they will be slow, but they will be great pullers. On Thu, 01 Mar 2001 21:01:12 -0500 Nick and Becky Colleran <colleran@...> writes: > The can motor I installed replaced an early motor from a SIT engine > circa 46-47 which was in a 336 Northern and obviously the wrong > motor with questionable pulling power, along with bad wiring and > the wrong reverse unit. I also pulled the wheels, fixed the > whitewalls > that were loose and realigned with the tool from Triple S for that > purpose. The 312 on my bench was similar and has been repainted > as well as striped for Pennsy. > > > > >Tom is right that can motors in AF steamers are not the cure all. I > tried it > >in my 312 as a last resort because it ran so poorly. It still runs > poorly, > >so now I will be employing the Dave Horn method of total > disassembly and > >cleaning. If that doesn't do it, then I guess I have a nice > paperweight. > >What a shame as I have both a SIB and SIT 312. Both barely run > around the > >track. Oh, well. > > > >Scott Brown > >Atlantic Coast S Gaugers > >Washington & Old Dominion Division > > > > >On the can motors. I think its great that there's one around. > Currently my > >preference is to own, operate, repair, and maintain as close to > running like > >new one of each body-style and drive-train design engine Gilbert > >manufactured. I'm learning a lot and having a ball. Never a dull > moment. > > A good Gilbert motor is a fine thing > > >..... there's more style and grace to Gilbert's engines. > > Amen to that. > > > the can motor will be fun to experiment with. > > The Timko really is fun to use. It can go into a 332 DC and removed > at any > time to put back to original, > > > >Tom's correct, especially since the Gilbert motors and chassis are > readily > >repaired. > > That assumes it has a motor to be repaired. Mine did not! > > >Besides, the thought of putting a can motor into a Gilbert Northern > gives > >me "the creeps"! > > Since I had no motor to lose, I tried the Timko. It is a major > improvement > over the wrong Gilbert motor. I don't intend to remove the super > motor from > my other 336 even though the "canned" Northern runs better at the > moment > due to my complete overhaul of everything else. > > > >RB > > >.................I don't agree that the can motor won't > >have a long life, I have items with can motors in them that are > from as far > >back as the seventies and early eighties and they all work fine. > It may > >depend on the quality of the can motor. There are cheaply > manufactured ones > >just as there are finely manufactured ones. > > > >Paul Finerty > > I plan to run the Timko can motor for 8-10 hours and see how it > holds up. I > appears > to be the best I've seen and the worm gear, screws and mounting > plate make > things > better. > > Nick Colleran > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11978	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/2/2001
Subject: SMOKE

Hi...someone wrote about the formula for AF smoke fl. It had something to do with Mr. Tuffs.... Mike

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11979	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 3/2/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, March 4, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11980	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 3/2/2001
Subject: Re: Low number vs high number Alcos

Early Alcos like the 360s had wheel axle bushings that are easily replaced. Alcos after those early Santa Fe units, just had holes drilled through the truck castings. I am told it really takes a mill to rebush these later units, and having a third party do it typically will cost you $25.00 or more per truck. I like the earlier Alcos, because they are more easily repaired. Most used Alcos I have seen / purchased are in need of this repair!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11981	From: Bob	Date: 3/2/2001
Subject: Elevate switches.......?

Dear Knowledgable group, I have a question for you.I use good old A.F. standard track with good old A.F. switches.I was wondering if it is possible ,or if anyone has ever elevated the switches to meet an incline or decline of a trestle set? I want to run another spur line, but the way my layout is it would require me to raise my switches a little in order to make this work.Can this be done ? Please e-mail me or post any and all responses.Thank you guys as always,you have the right answers to my problems...............Bob

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11982	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/2/2001
Subject: Re: Elevate switches.......?

Bob, et al, Switches ideally should be in the same plane as the tracks leading to them, or at least a half-section of track. This helps eliminate derailments. The switch doesn't have to be level, it can be inclined, but the branching track should also be on that incline, or if you must, level for one section before changing grade. I use blocks of wood with a piece of 1/4" plywood for a base, but then, I'm building temporary layouts, for example under the Christmas tree stuff. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11983	From: gino restivo	Date: 3/2/2001
Subject: Re: Elevate switches.......?

hi , bob yes you can , given the need to elavate the whole switch and some length at both ends,4-6 ", due to length of steam loco's, diesel's are more forgiving as their trucks will pivot end to end ! some trail "n"error time will have running soon . try to stay with the rise of the trestle set ( trestle support at track joint 9" apart ? did it to get thru vcr cabinet at x-mas time ... have fun , gino -----Original Message----- From: Bob <YAZFACTS@...> To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Date: Friday, March 02, 2001 10:12 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Elevate switches.......? >Dear Knowledgable group, > I have a question for you.I use good old A.F. >standard track with good old A.F. switches.I was wondering if it is >possible ,or if anyone has ever elevated the switches to meet an >incline or decline of a trestle set? I want to run another spur line, >but the way my layout is it would require me to raise my switches a >little in order to make this work.Can this be done ? Please e-mail me >or post any and all responses.Thank you guys as always,you have the >right answers to my problems...............Bob > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Shop online without a credit card http://www.rocketcash.com RocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11984	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/3/2001
Subject: CEDAR OIL

Someone had some info about cedar oil and how to obtain it Thanks.......Mike

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11985	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 3/3/2001
Subject: Layout construction

Ok, I am planning my new layout and I am doing a simple up and over on a 5' x 9' platform. My question is this: is a 2% grade to much for a single engine with 8 - 10 cars. I can back it off some, but in 5x9 there is not much room to make it much different. Thanks, Tom _---_---_---______--__--___+-----+||] [||####### B & O #####|______||_____ || pjpennington@... __| [][] |__ || ||_______________________/ _| B&O |___\_|| | ||| | | | | | | / | 4212 | # ||| | []|=|==================o=====o==================|=|[] /|-||(0)|=|(0)|=|(O) |_________| (0)|=|(0)|=|(O)||-|\ ======================================================== [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11986	From: Tom Young	Date: 3/3/2001
Subject: Layout construction

2% grades are no problem. I have them on my layout and all my Flyer steamers and diesels take them very easily. In fact I have one 4% grade that they will climb without losing traction. The only engines I have a problem with here are my 2 Sw's, being a little light in weight and not getting the traction to pull a long train, but they sure do try. That's not there purpose anyway. Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11987	From: donabrams	Date: 3/3/2001
Subject: 5-digit alcos

The 5-digit alcos I've seen have the 2 position reverse unit which I never liked. Also they have larger diameter flanges on the wheels with replaceable traction tires -- a possible plus. If you get one with "roar" it will more than likely have a cutoff switch which is a very good feature. Otherwise the motors are the same as the 4xx series of diesel locos. Don

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11988	From: donabrams	Date: 3/3/2001
Subject: Proofreading is dead

The March/April 2001 issue of S gaugian has a full page ad on page 2 for Stout Auctions. It takes (took) place on March 10, 2000 in Indianapolis, Indiana. Anyway it shows a factory sample(?) of a reverse loop relay setup. I don't think a Northern will make it around the turn, perhaps not even a handcar! Don

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11989	From: donabrams	Date: 3/3/2001
Subject: Greg Kreft

Did some digging in the old 'train folder' and came up with my most recent AFP price list -- it's dated 1997. AFP Products P.O. Box 180480 Utica, MI 48318-0480 (810) 375-9743 (810) 375-9912 (Fax) Last time I spoke with Greg was about the same year. He indicated he was passing the business on to his sons. Hope this helps, Don

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11990	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 3/3/2001
Subject: Missing Person/Video

Will the David who lives in Rockville, MD, and was using email address davedesian@... please contact me. I have a Video for you, but two mailings to that email address have been returned. I did another run of S-gauge Model Railroading Volume 1 so they are again available to any and all... Steve Blackburn Boise, Idaho [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11991	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/3/2001
Subject: Re: Missing Person/Video

Hmm, another run. I can see it now (Fade to 2004) "Blackburn Videos, Inc. annouces the purchase of Pentrex--promises great upgrades to the line. A spokesperson stated, "No more 200 3/4 view loco run-by shots for an hour, no more mispronounced nameplaces! AND an ALL S Gauge video line, to meet the growing demand for S gauge products." Fade back to 2001, Great Work Steve, can't wait for the next one. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11992	From: Rick Evans	Date: 3/3/2001
Subject: To the Sunday nite chat gang..........

I won't be at chat Sunday night,...I'll be a GATS down in Santa Barbara, CA,....about a two hour drive one way. Was planning to go on Saturday,...but found out I have a band gig that night! (Train money!) Taking Savanah, my five year old,....this is the one show I always take her to, (well, this will be her 3rd in S.B.)...she always has fun but doesn't like to admit it!! Hope everyone has a good weekend. Oh,...and I emailed David Dewey all my bad jokes for him to use a chat Sunday! (not that he NEEDS anymore bad jokes!) Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11993	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/3/2001
Subject: Re: To the Sunday nite chat gang..........

Hmm, I TOO may not make it, hafta go visit my Father-in-Law. Will try to get back in time, hate to leave ya all without some bad humor! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11994	From: david garber	Date: 3/3/2001
Subject: Re: sunday nite chat

someone will have to step up to the plate to help out." Us "in the north east will not be going out if the snow they are forcasting develops.than again maybe we can set an attendence record???If David is not there Rick can save the jokes for next week I do not think they will go BAD. DAVID GARBER

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11995	From: gino restivo	Date: 3/3/2001
Subject: Re: Missing Person/Video

** msg " forwarded " to davedesian@... -----Original Message----- From: boss31@... <boss31@...> To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Date: Saturday, March 03, 2001 11:41 AM Subject: [S-Trains] Missing Person/Video >Will the David who lives in Rockville, MD, and was using email address >davedesian@... please contact me. I have a Video for you, but two >mailings to that email address have been returned. > >I did another run of S-gauge Model Railroading Volume 1 so they are again >available to any and all... > >Steve Blackburn >Boise, Idaho > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Shop online without a credit card http://www.rocketcash.com RocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11996	From: joe messinger	Date: 3/3/2001
Subject: Brush Arc

I noticed among all the recent posts related to the "Faster in Reverse" thing that Chuck (eighthmile@...) pointed out that in regards to the question of "Why does one brush arc more that the other?", they both arc about the same when viewed form top and bottom. It's true! I had never given the subject much thought before. I had the shells off a couple of my locomotives. I hooked the chassis with motor up and turned on the juice. When viewed from the top and running in forward, the right brush arced more than the the brush on the left. When viewed from the bottom, the opposite was true. (No, I wasn't looking at the right brush on the left side because I had flipped the chassis over. . .) The results were the same on both locos. Apparently, both brushes arc about the same. Just depends on which side (top or bottom) you view it from. I don't know what all this means other than maybe it isn't a problem or any indication of a mechanical/electrical fault, at all? Joe M. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11997	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/3/2001
Subject: Boxcad????

Will the person that has the #24003 boxcar get in touch please...lost you r E-mail address... Or anyone else that has one for sale.....Mike

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11998	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/3/2001
Subject: BOXCAR????

Yes box CAD....Mike

Group: S-Trains	Message: 11999	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 3/3/2001
Subject: Price on MTH Sawmill

MTH has just lowered its price to dealers on the No. 23796 Sawmill (MTH #30-9122) offered in its 2001 Volume II catalog. However, even with this lower price, my price needs to be $80--a full $3 more than my price for the Lionel Sawmill (No. 6-49806). If anyone wants to charge their Lionel order to the MTH version, please let me know by Wednesday, March 7th. For new orders of the MTH 23796 Sawmill (MTH #30-9122), I must have these by March 20th. Did anyone else notice that Lionel Burlington gondola is pictured with only 4 canisters, even though AF canisters are made with slots to allow for 5 canister in a gondola load? Also, the $55 boxcar is the cheaper door rails with tabs and body with three slots for chassis tabs. Joe ===== Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,100 part lines American Models ########################## S-Helper Service Official Licensed Dealer for Gilbert Reproductions joestrainrepair@... Master Charge/Visa __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12000	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 3/3/2001
Subject: early and late Alcos

36X models have replacable axle bushings (eventually a plus), but they do not have pulmor wheels nor the slightly larger Pulmor field and armatures that the later 49X and 5-digit counterparts were built with. However, like early SIT steamers, they can be great runners and pull a fair amount, just not as much so as the later, larger motored, pulmor units. Some 5-digit counterparts also were single power truck while the predecessor was double (e.g. check the SF Chief family tree). And as mentioned before the later models came with 2- position reverse units, which aren't all that bad. 4-position, 2- position, even electronic LTI/AM 3-position units (creep in "trickle zones") all have their advantages, disadvantages, and operational quirks, but they work pretty well if you keep them and your tracks in good order, or in the case of electronic units don't pop them suddenly with too much power.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12001	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 3/3/2001
Subject: johnny lightning cars

Just came back from a trip to the local WalMart. They had about 10 different johnny lightning american chrome series cars, several in different colors. They ranged from 53-61 vintage. Paid $2.37 each for a pile of them. Roger Petrella Franktown, CO

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12002	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/3/2001
Subject: Re: johnny lightning cars

Roger, Why doesn't this stuff ever show up at MY local Wal-Marts?? All I ever see is '60s and '70s stuff. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12003	From: Ted R Larson	Date: 3/4/2001
Subject: Public Service Announcement

If you receive the Snow White OR any other virus, you can do everybody a favor by reporting it to the ISP that it orginated from. Look in the headers section of the message for a line something like this; Received: from earthlink.net (ip24.rochester6.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.84.24]) In this example, FORWARD the message to abuse@... so that the service provider can inform the infected customer that his computer has a problem. If there are several such lines, send it to the ISP lowest in the header. Ted Larson Duh! I just found a PHOTO-COPY button on my scanner! ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12004	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 3/4/2001
Subject: 752 coal loader gears

I just got a motor and one side plate for a 752 coal loader that I have that is missing the operating mechanism. I can make the other side plate and the drum and shafts, but need to find the gears. Does anyone know what the part numbers are for the two gears that drive the drum in the 752 coal loader? Also, any idea of who might have them? Roger Petrella Franktown, CO

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12005	From: lancemccold@chartertn.net	Date: 3/4/2001
Subject: Repair manual recommendations

There are several AF repair manuals available. K-Line has one. Hobby Surplus Sales has "Original Gilbert American Flyer Trains Exploded Views and Parts Lists." Triple S Supply has one. Please comment on which is best in your experience and what you found most helpful about it. Thanks, Lance McCold

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12006	From: lancemccold@chartertn.net	Date: 3/4/2001
Subject: Gargraves S-gauge sectional track

I have enjoyed the wider curves of the K-line curved track. Gargraves offers even wider curves with plastic ties and stainless steel rails. It sounds tempting. Does anyone have any experience with the Gargraves sectional track? If so, please post your experiences. Thanks, Lance McCold

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12007	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 3/4/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, March 4, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12008	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 3/4/2001
Subject: Re: access to yahoo

Alex wrote: > Thanks for posting your message about Yahoo. I have the same experience with > Yahoo---and have given up. > > -- Alex in Kennebunk, Maine > > -----Original Message----- > From: gunrjoe@... [mailto:gunrjoe@...] > Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2001 12:40 PM > To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [S-Trains] access to yahoo > > Thanks forn the great posts lately. On target and timely, have learned much. > My problem is that yahoo will not let me in. Converted from e-groups > already. > When I enter all fields for forgotten yahoo password it says no record > found. > When I try to re-register, it says it does have a record and I cannot > register. have been using computers for 10 years. can't figure this > out?????? > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ If YAHOO is going to start shutting us out, we need to come up with suitable alternative. Whatever happened to the FCC and such things as unlawful denial of access under the First Amendment?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12009	From: gino restivo	Date: 3/4/2001
Subject: Re: Repair manual recommendations

evening , i prefer the large sheet size like the original ( or copy of ) because i can take it out of three ring binder ...or hang it up will posting part #'s , or copy it ,etc .... k-line book is hard back greenburg book is soft back , triple 's' i believe has copies of original's also , but not sure call and ask .. don't forget the " A.F. " S Gauge Operatng and Repair Manual by Thomas Barker ....... more how -to and why from years of experience ! hope this helps , would like to see 20 plus inch's of snow in morning , have fun gino -----Original Message----- From: lancemccold@... <lancemccold@...> To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Date: Sunday, March 04, 2001 3:38 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Repair manual recommendations >There are several AF repair manuals available. K-Line has one. Hobby >Surplus Sales has "Original Gilbert American Flyer Trains Exploded >Views and Parts Lists." Triple S Supply has one. > >Please comment on which is best in your experience and what you found >most helpful about it. > >Thanks, > >Lance McCold > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Shop online without a credit card http://www.rocketcash.com RocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12010	From: gino restivo	Date: 3/4/2001
Subject: Re: 752 coal loader gears

eveng roger , saw you msg .... accs # 785 - 23785 shows the parts ... don't know if they are correct for 752 / 752-a never seen them bad or damaged ; page # 252 k-line book # x 2491-brp gear assmbly xa-10223 pinion & worm assmbly there are other parts on the shaft with drum , i recommend you get a repair / parts book have no idea who might have these pc's try leventon's hobby ? re; gino -----Original Message----- From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. <rogerpjr@...> To: s-trains@yahoogroups.com <s-trains@yahoogroups.com> Date: Sunday, March 04, 2001 2:58 PM Subject: [S-Trains] 752 coal loader gears >I just got a motor and one side plate for a 752 coal loader that I have >that is missing the operating mechanism. I can make the other side >plate and the drum and shafts, but need to find the gears. Does anyone >know what the part numbers are for the two gears that drive the drum in >the 752 coal loader? Also, any idea of who might have them? > >Roger Petrella >Franktown, CO > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Shop online without a credit card http://www.rocketcash.com RocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12011	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 3/4/2001
Subject: Re: Price on MTH Sawmill

Joe wrote: >Did anyone else notice that Lionel Burlington gondola >is pictured with only 4 canisters, even though AF >canisters are made with slots to allow for 5 canister >in a gondola load? I wondered about that too, especially since, with the 5 canister Gilbert load, only the center canister actually mates with any of the gussets in the gondola body. Did the photographer goof? They couldn't find a 5th canister at Lionel that day? Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12013	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 3/4/2001
Subject: Early and Late Alcos

I have only two Alco lash-ups, the 474-475 A-A that came with our "Rocket" set, and a 360-364 A-B. These pretty much stand at opposite ends of the Gilbert 3-digit era. In addition to the differences noted by others, another notable difference is that the earlier units have no sliding contacts on the trucks. The need for these was painfully demonstrated to me after running the freshly serviced 360 on clean track. I was used to the behavior of the Rocket Alco (which we purchased a few years before). I never had any trouble with wheel arcing or the loco putting dirt on clean track. (It has factory-fitted sliding contacts.) But, when I applied power to the 360 (after spending several hours getting it all cleaned and lubed,) I was crestfallen to find it lumbering along, spitting sparks from under it's current pick-up wheels, and leaving freshly cleaned track with black deposits. I cranked the throttle open wider to try "powering through" the conditions, but that didn't help matters. The sparking got worse with each lap of the main line. Then, when I removed the side frames and looked into the trucks (after a mere few minutes of these fireworks), I was astonished to find that all of the newly applied lubricants I had so carefully massaged into the axle bearings had dissappeared! There was still grease on the axles between the gears and the truck chassis, but none in the bearings proper. Then, it dawned on me: without pick-up shoes, all of the current had to go through the wheels, the bearings, and the lubricants in the bearings. Lubricants seem to resent being zapped with substanial amounts of electrical current. They respond by evaporating, it seems. No wonder these wore out so fast, and no wonder that Gilbert resorted to sliding contacts for the main current path into these hungry beauties. I've heard of some folks replacing the sideframes on 360 diesels with later slide contact equipped frame assemblies. I had no extras handy, so I resorted to making slip-in contact wipers out of sheet brass, brass angle, and #2 machine screws. The difference in performance is dramatic, like night and day. Now I can run the 360 for hours without so much as a single spark. Also, the lubricants remain intact and in place, which is no small advantage. The other main difference I noticed is the brush holder assembly. The later Alco uses those stiff paper and sheet steel brackets that tend to warp. The 360 I have has a well-designed and very nicely molded nylon bracket on each motor to hold the brushes, which stay right where they should on the commutators. Another nice side effect is that the comms don't seem to need cleaning as often as the later Alco motors. Of the two, the 360 is my favorite, and I love the closed pilot! Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12014	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/5/2001
Subject: Re: early and late Alcos

Ah, Chuck has noted, and explained the 'wear" often seen on AF Diesel Chassis. Note that the wear is often on the bottom of the hole, when, if it were merely wear, would be on the top of the hole! The electrical arcing, however, can be at the bottom of the hole! I have some almost radical ideas for improving, with little alteration, the situation, but until I get time to try them out, I'm not willing to propose them as solutions--they might not work! Neil Trump has some fantastic ideas too, some are very "radical" but good! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12015	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/5/2001
Subject: GP-20 Chessie # 4-8459

Someone on this list was looking for a Chessie GP-20....Befor I list it on E-bay it is offered to that person (or anyone else) for $260.00 sh&i included... It is like new with very little run time if any the box is missing the inserts and the clear plastic is torn other than that it is primo....The engine is like new E-mail with questions....Mike S

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12016	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 3/5/2001
Subject: Re: Price on MTH Sawmill(Containers)

Actually you can fit 4 containers into an AF gondola by locating the outer 2 on the outer 2 braces and not using the center one. I carried 8 containers in 2 gondolas this way for years. eighthmile@... wrote: > > Joe wrote: > > >Did anyone else notice that Lionel Burlington gondola > >is pictured with only 4 canisters, even though AF > >canisters are made with slots to allow for 5 canister > >in a gondola load? > > I wondered about that too, especially since, with the 5 canister > Gilbert load, only the center canister actually mates with any of the > gussets in the gondola body. Did the photographer goof? They couldn't > find a 5th canister at Lionel that day? > > Chuck F. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12017	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 3/5/2001
Subject: cedar oil

I found some in small bottles at a local health food store. Check in the aromatherapy section. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12018	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 3/5/2001
Subject: no pickup shoes on 360

Great point. Forgot to mention that. Before learning about the smaller size motor, I had purchased a bad looking 360 to use its chassis in a 473 to match my 470. Along with adding pulmor equipped LTI chassis I also upgraded to pickup shoe equipped sideframes. Since it won't work as the 470's double (just slightly less speed and pulling power than the larger motor), I got the body rechromed, and am now "regressing" it to original 360 configuration - - rebushing original chassis - - so there won't be any pulmor. I guess I might keep the pu shoe sideframes though. I wasn't going to because a club member runs a repainted 360 that's quite amazing. It has axle hole play like crazy, no pu shoes, and yet the the thing runs and pulls amazingly well. He bought it as a castout for ~$50 and somehow that little thing seems determined to work great despite all odds that it shouldn't. On the other hand, I too have found that even though pu shoes create some extra drag, they make all the conductivity difference in the world. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12019	From: IronHorse	Date: 3/5/2001
Subject: Repair manual

I also am interested in knowing the differences of the repair manuals. I have the Greenberg manual. It is a parts manual and that is all it is. I tells how to replace some parts. It does not tell how to repair parts. Whose manual has the pull out sheets? Are there manuals in color with photos? Roger Hinds Check out -----> http://www.travel.to/cofa an "S" museum site. Swing and Sway the "S" gauge way. :o)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12020	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/5/2001
Subject: SMOKE

Thanks to all that have responded to my inquiry on the smoke issue......Hopefully I can put some together...Have located the cedar oil so far....Now the choice of other ingredents....Hardest part is org to compare to...But am in the running for a full bottle (Pricey) on e-bay.....Mike S

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12021	From: Rick Evans	Date: 3/5/2001
Subject: Canisters for gondolas....

According to "Greenberg",...the #916 gondola came with five canisters,..however, the #24113 gondola came with five OR three. So I guess you could say that Lionel is shorting everyone of one canister, with their new gondola,...but on the other hand,..they are giving out one more then just three!!! Hmmmm.....half empty, half full,..all in how ya look at it I guess!! Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12022	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/5/2001
Subject: SMOKE

What is the biggest drawback of "Supersmoke" not that it isn't a good product... Is it the smell??? does it lack the ACG smell&body??? could it use more cedar to enhance the smell....I haven't smelled Gilbert (OK Jokes aside) in sooooooLong any input would help......Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12023	From: gino restivo	Date: 3/5/2001
Subject: Re: Repair manual

hi all ; there are no color photo's , only the cover ! original service parts sheets are 8 1/2 x 11 copiies of them will not have THREE RING BINDER HOLES ..., you can put them in if you like ,..... you can buy them or visit your local hobby shop they might have one you can see .. or contact someone local ? on a previous post only Tom Barkers book was mentioned to be " MORE HOW - TO " ....and the TITLE was typed in so if you called some body ,you had the full name on the cover ... the factory cover reads ; SERVICE MANUAL PARTS CATALOG AND PRICE LIST ACG CO, NEW HAVN , CONN...ETC ,. have fun , gino -----Original Message----- From: IronHorse <cofa@...> To: gino restivo <lastman@...> Cc: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Date: Monday, March 05, 2001 9:43 AM Subject: [S-Trains] Repair manual >I also am interested in knowing the differences of the repair manuals. >I have the Greenberg manual. It is a parts manual and that is all it is. >I tells how to replace some parts. It does not tell how to repair parts. > Whose manual has the pull out sheets? > Are there manuals in color with photos? > >Roger Hinds > >Check out -----> http://www.travel.to/cofa an "S" museum site. > >Swing and Sway the "S" gauge way. :o) > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Shop online without a credit card http://www.rocketcash.com RocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12024	From: gino restivo	Date: 3/5/2001
Subject: Re: SMOKE

hi , mike in response to your msg , I think it's great that someone made " SUPER SMOKE " for us to use , THAT'S not a drawback is it ? I thank Mr . Robert Board , for it relates to many memories in my life .......................... 1) yes 2) no 3) probably , it's just not quite as strong as original ,but it is available in thick ( original stlye ) or thin for use in suethe stlye smoke generator's as used in MANY " O " manufcturs , I asked mr. Board himself if he could make make a thin version for these products and he did , sold drums of it to mth ... and it is also very good to loosen up dried/hard smoke wick's , ( NOT BURNT / FRIED wicks ) try some when you can .... either will work in A.F.Trains smells better than burnt pine trees ... ! p.s. don't set off the smoke alarm ? THANK YOU , Mr .Robert Board have fun , gino -----Original Message----- From: anormal1@... <anormal1@...> To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Date: Monday, March 05, 2001 8:02 PM Subject: [S-Trains] SMOKE > What is the biggest drawback of "Supersmoke" not that it isn't a good >product... Is it the smell??? does it lack the ACG smell&body??? could it use >more cedar to enhance the smell....I haven't smelled Gilbert (OK Jokes aside) >in sooooooLong any input would help......Mike S. > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Shop online without a credit card http://www.rocketcash.com RocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12025	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/5/2001
Subject: Re: Repair manual

Did anyone notice the AF repair manual on CD that sold on eBay today? Hmm, who put that out??? Sounds like a great idea to me. Was supposed to be over 400 pages of original ACG stuff on CD. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12026	From: negative_pitch@hotmail.com	Date: 3/5/2001
Subject: Re: GP-20 Chessie # 4-8459

I posted a message looking for one, but I have found one since the posting. Thx Mark K --- In S-Trains@y..., anormal1@a... wrote: > Someone on this list was looking for a Chessie GP-20....Befor I list it on > E-bay it is offered to that person (or anyone else) for $260.00 sh&i > included... It is like new with very little run time if any the box is > missing the inserts and the clear plastic is torn other than that it is > primo....The engine is like new E-mail with questions....Mike S

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12027	From: joe messinger	Date: 3/5/2001
Subject: Alignment Tool

Does anyone know the actual dimensions of a Gilbert (R-2) wheel alignment tool for steam locomotives or perhaps where I might find a scale drawing? I believe I can make one of the tools but don't know, exactly, how they are made. The only reference I can find is in Baker's book and it isn't actual size. The drawing shows two pieces. I thought there were three components comprising the tool. I don't know for sure. Also, can the tool be used to align 4, 6, and 8 drive wheel locomotives? Any help would be appreciated. Joe Messinger _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12028	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/5/2001
Subject: Re: Alignment Tool

Joe, I believe there were different tools for the various wheel arangements (R-1, R-2, R-3, R-4 and another set for the smaller drivers for the 0-8-0 switcher (and maybe one for the 0-6-0 units? The interesting thing about these is that the tool does not "quarter" the wheels, but puts them at something like 50 degrees. Someone once posted the actual degrees. The tool uses the screw hole and the deep hole on the opposite side of the wheel for alignment. I'm attaching some pics to a seperate email to Joe, as this system just strips them for the group. Maybe he can work dimensions from the pics, I don't have a tool either! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12029	From: neil.trump@bt.com	Date: 3/6/2001
Subject: Re: Alignment Tool

To all: I seem to remember that the quartering value specified by Gilbert is actually 87 degrees, I'm at work at the moment and don't have the 'M' document here. Neil T. -----Original Message----- From: David Dewey [mailto:djdewey@...] Sent: 04 March 2001 21:49 To: S-Trains; joe messinger Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Alignment Tool Joe, I believe there were different tools for the various wheel arangements (R-1, R-2, R-3, R-4 and another set for the smaller drivers for the 0-8-0 switcher (and maybe one for the 0-6-0 units? The interesting thing about these is that the tool does not "quarter" the wheels, but puts them at something like 50 degrees. Someone once posted the actual degrees. The tool uses the screw hole and the deep hole on the opposite side of the wheel for alignment. I'm attaching some pics to a seperate email to Joe, as this system just strips them for the group. Maybe he can work dimensions from the pics, I don't have a tool either! S' David D. S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12030	From: Nick and Becky Colleran	Date: 3/6/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 933

Triple S makes an alignment tool for the Northern 8 wheel and the six wheel Pacific and Hudson locos. They sell for $90 - $100 and they work! I have them. They are cast and machined. From my experience they provide the proper alignment. I've heard that they are an improved version of the Gilbert tools. --- Nick >Message: 13 > Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 00:22:54 -0500 > From: "joe messinger" <jmessinger@...> >Subject: Alignment Tool > >Does anyone know the actual dimensions of a Gilbert (R-2) wheel alignment >tool for steam locomotives or perhaps where I might find a scale drawing? > >I believe I can make one of the tools but don't know, exactly, how they are >made. The only reference I can find is in Baker's book and it isn't actual >size. The drawing shows two pieces. I thought there were three components >comprising the tool. I don't know for sure. > >Also, can the tool be used to align 4, 6, and 8 drive wheel locomotives? > >Any help would be appreciated. > >Joe Messinger >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > >________________________________________________________________________ >________________________________________________________________________ > >Message: 14 > Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 13:48:47 -0800 > From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> >Subject: Re: Alignment Tool > >Joe, > I believe there were different tools for the various wheel arangements >(R-1, R-2, R-3, R-4 and another set for the smaller drivers for the 0-8-0 >switcher (and maybe one for the 0-6-0 units? The interesting thing about >these is that the tool does not "quarter" the wheels, but puts them at >something like 50 degrees. Someone once posted the actual degrees. The tool >uses the screw hole and the deep hole on the opposite side of the wheel for >alignment. I'm attaching some pics to a seperate email to Joe, as this >system just strips them for the group. Maybe he can work dimensions from the >pics, I don't have a tool either! >S' >David D. > > > >________________________________________________________________________ >________________________________________________________________________ > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12031	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 3/6/2001
Subject: Super Smoke

I found it just doesn't work all that well. At least not compared to LVTS S-Gauge Live Steam (apparently no longer available), MTH ProtoSmoke (made by LVTS), or just plain old 99.9% pure lamp oil (laced with a little cedar oil). I had some Super Smoke, gave it several tries, but found it to be over-formulated, too thick, sort of syrupy. Ended up tossing it out. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12032	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 3/6/2001
Subject: Re: Super Smoke

In a message dated 3/6/01 8:47:41 AM Eastern Standard Time, david_horn@... writes: << I found it just doesn't work all that well. At least not compared to LVTS S-Gauge Live Steam (apparently no longer available), MTH ProtoSmoke (made by LVTS), or just plain old 99.9% pure lamp oil (laced with a little cedar oil). I had some Super Smoke, gave it several tries, but found it to be over-formulated, too thick, sort of syrupy. Ended up tossing it out. >> I have found Super Smoke a bit dissapointing, too, although the "perfume" seems to be about right. It can really slop up the appearance of an engine. Rather than throw it out, however, I mixed it with LGB smoke fluid (roughly 3 parts LGB to 1 part SS) and this helps lower the vapor point for good smoking and stills yields an aroma -- not a perfect fix, but a suggestion. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12033	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 3/6/2001
Subject: Re: Super Smoke

Thanks for the tip. I too "thinned" SuperSmoke out with ProtoSmoke for awhile and got better results, but about that time found the LVTS S-gauge and decided not to bother mixing anymore. I bought the last 12 bottles of LVTS S-Gauge a dealer had at a show. When that's used up, I might be back to the chemistry kit again. Unless by then I've tried RFG's fluid and like it. Who know? -----Original Message----- From: RBubeck327@... [mailto:RBubeck327@...] Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 9:34 AM To: david_horn@...; S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Super Smoke In a message dated 3/6/01 8:47:41 AM Eastern Standard Time, david_horn@... writes: << I found it just doesn't work all that well. At least not compared to LVTS S-Gauge Live Steam (apparently no longer available), MTH ProtoSmoke (made by LVTS), or just plain old 99.9% pure lamp oil (laced with a little cedar oil). I had some Super Smoke, gave it several tries, but found it to be over-formulated, too thick, sort of syrupy. Ended up tossing it out. >> I have found Super Smoke a bit dissapointing, too, although the "perfume" seems to be about right. It can really slop up the appearance of an engine. Rather than throw it out, however, I mixed it with LGB smoke fluid (roughly 3 parts LGB to 1 part SS) and this helps lower the vapor point for good smoking and stills yields an aroma -- not a perfect fix, but a suggestion. RB [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12034	From: Rick Evans	Date: 3/6/2001
Subject: Liquid smoke--lamp oil.....

I have had good results with the good ol' lamp oil,... ..and CHEAP too! I would like to try mixing in some cedar oil. I believe I only payed about two bucks for at least 16 oz. of lamp oil! Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12035	From: colin_olsen@hotmail.com	Date: 3/6/2001
Subject: Air Chime Whistle

I have hooked up (correctly, I believe) an air chime whistle control for my AF 360A/364B. When the button is pressed the train starts up, or if the train is moving and the button is pressed, it runs faster. I am able to get a clicking noise from the speaker. All wires to the track terminal are disconnected save the ones going from the terminal to an alternative terminal in a large layout. Any suggestions. Thanks.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12036	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 3/6/2001
Subject: Re: Alignment Tool

David I have a set of the # R-2 Tool kit. It is for a 6 wheel (pacific) chassis, the pins are at 85 degrees by my measurement, In service bulletin #14, dated 9/15/55, Instructions for the tool give the angle of 87 degrees the same setting as used at the factory after 1955, before that date the factory set the wheels at 90 degrees. I have seen several three wheel tool sets for the pacific but no other configuration, I assume that others exist. comments are welcome. Jerry 77-11644 ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12037	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/6/2001
Subject: Re: Alignment Tool

As everyone must have figured out by now, I was asleep when I posted that the Quartering tool was at something like 50 degrees. For some reason, my fuzzy brain was thinking a right angle was 45 degrees! Ooops. Good thing I'm not plotting course for the space shuttle, or curves for a layout! Does anyone have a clue why ACG changed from 90 degrees? Is this maybe why some run better one direction than the other??? S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12038	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 3/6/2001
Subject: Re: Air Chime Whistle

Qhen you press the button the tube should oscillate at abiout 400 hz. This should be audible at the tube although not loud. If the oscillator is not "buzzing" then either replace the tube or repair it so it does. They can be opened for repair. Repair consists usually of tweaking the contact gaps. Hard to explain until you look inside. What you describe sounds like the 15V from the transformer is making solid contact instead of vibrating. Loco needs only the speaker to operate the horn. This is covered in Barker's book, I think. colin_olsen@... wrote: > > I have hooked up (correctly, I believe) an air chime whistle control > for my AF 360A/364B. When the button is pressed the train starts up, > or if the train is moving and the button is pressed, it runs faster. > I am able to get a clicking noise from the speaker. All wires to the > track terminal are disconnected save the ones going from the terminal > to an alternative terminal in a large layout. Any suggestions. Thanks. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12039	From: joe messinger	Date: 3/6/2001
Subject: Wheel Alignment

Thanks to all who offered information on the alignment tool. -David- Thank you for the pictures. At least, I now know what the thing looks like. Whether I can make one might be another story! Looks like it would require at least three, separate sets of tools for 4, 6, and 8 drive wheel locomotives? I'll let you all know if I have any success. Thanks again. Joe _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12040	From: donabrams	Date: 3/6/2001
Subject: PU shoes

The presence of the pickup shoe is good, but soldering a wire (superflex) to the top of the box and then to the top of the post on the yoke is even better. LTI does this. From the top of the yoke there is a connection to the reverse unit. The shoe gets the current into the sideframe. From there it must pass into the cradle, or centerpiece. From there it goes into the shoulder screw and from there into the yoke which is pivoting -- an even worse electrical connection than those previous to it. The wire bypasses all this. I've improved the performance and significantly lessened the arcing/sparking of wheels on the older diesels by doing this. See -- LTI did do something good for Flyer! Don

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12041	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/6/2001
Subject: Re: Wheel Alignment

Joe, I haven't checked center-to-center distances yet, but I think the three-axle tool can be used on the two-axle locos. Oh wait, nope that won't work, as it wouldn't clear the motor mount. RATS. Guess you're right! The greatest challenge I can think of is getting the wheel centers correct. Anyone have one of these they wouldn't mind measuring with a micrometer or at least a viener and sharing the dimensions? You will need a milling machine to make a set of these, unless you're really, really, good with a drill press! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12042	From: busyboy	Date: 3/7/2001
Subject: Re: Wheel Alignment

Dear Strainiacs: When some tough guy dies, someone will say: "What a man! He asked no quarter and he gave none." Join with me now in asking, "What the hell does that mean???" As to quartering drivers, I was a tough guy once. Some twenty five years ago, I cleaned up all my steamers. I set up shop on the kitchen table and I thoroughly disassembled each engine, cleaning and lubricating, and in the case of those annoying whitewalls, epoxying the rims back on. In some cases, wheels needed to be pulled. I did so with great alacrity. I then replaced them by eye! My steamers are the best running engines you ever did see. I get them down to crawl speeds that any scale guy would admire. So, here's my question. What's with the great accuracy in quartering? STOP! Don't answer yet. Get the full gist of where I am going with this. A half a million pounds of locomotive with 2000 pound side rods can set a lot of forces in motion. The timing of the cylinders which drive the wheels requires precise quartering as does the counterbalance effect of the forces applied to this great mass. But little Flyer engines are driven by a motor on an axle gear. The rearmost driven wheel imparts motion to the other wheels through the side rods, thus the side rod on EACH side must be spaced properly to allow smooth turning. When I reassembled my locos, I could tell on which spline to set a driver by testing. I set by eye, then put on the side rod. It might fit in one position, then jam as it went around. I would remove the offending wheel and retard or advance it one spline, thus achieving success. (Easy to rotate with the motor out.) I don't see the need for an accurate quartering relationship between the two sides of the loco, however. There is no steam, no timed cylinder cocks. There is precious little mass. I believe that if a Flyer engine were set up with anything but zero angle quartering, that is, both sides in the exact same position at the same time, that it would not affect performance in the slightest. While there is some credible argument that could be made concerning recovery angle, it would really only affect a steamer running in hand, off the rails, or when slipping. When the engine is on the rails, all wheels in contact, the very act of rolling bypasses the recovery angle requirement. By recovery angle, I mean the inclination of one side of drive wheels to keep the momentum of circular motion going while the opposite side has reached full extension of the drive rods. At the point where the rod must change direction from forward carry to rearward carry there is a stop point. Momentum can transcend this, but having the opposite side drivers, which are connected to these drivers through the axles, turning in a different part of the cycle is enough to overcome the moment and carry the motion, even at initial start-up. I think that Gilbert must have had a reason for picking a particular angle. I don't know that it had anything at all to do with prototype quartering angles. My question, restated, is: What's with the great accuracy in quartering? Does anyone have the real answer? Thanks, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12043	From: Gerry Evans	Date: 3/7/2001
Subject: Viruses Doth Abound

Picked up warnings about three "new" viruses this morning. Take caution: A Virtual Card for You, An Internet Flower for You, and Naked Wife. Do not open any of these especially if you use Outlook Express. Gerry [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12044	From: Robert Wight	Date: 3/7/2001
Subject: Quartering

Dont sweat the small stuff. Sometimes these repair manuals twist your head around. !/4 is easily done by eye. The hardest I find is the 0-8-0 and I have done two of them and they run like the devil. the previous post on how to eye ball it works just as good as anything else and it is fun to. Happy Railroading Bob Wight --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Personal Address - Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12045	From: busyboy	Date: 3/7/2001
Subject: Re: Wheel Alignment

FOLLOW-UP Sorry, I left this out of the previous post. Here is my method of quartering: Presume we are working with a Pacific, 6 driver chassis. Presuppose that all axles and wheels are apart on the bench except for the rear geared axle which is still mounted in the chassis. The motor is in and engaged to the gears. 1.) Press on one rear driver, anywhere on the rear axle. 2.) Rotate the motor so the rod mount hole is facing rearward, on a horizontal line with the axle center. NEVER TOUCH THE MOTOR AGAIN UNTIL STEP 9. 3.) Flip the chassis over and press on the other rear driver so the rod mount hole is straight down, on a vertical line with the axle center. 4.) Press two of the remaining drivers, one center type, one front, on two of the remaining axles. 5.) Insert the axles through the chassis from the first side. 6.) Install the side rod on the three wheels and tighten the screws. 7.) Flip the chassis over and press on the other two drivers so the rod mounts are straight down, on a vertical line with the axle center. 8.) Install the side rod on the three wheels and lightly tighten the screws. 9.) Remove the motor to free the wheels from the worm gear. 10.) Hand rotate the wheels, watching for rod binding ONLY on the second side. Ignore the first side. Through several rotations, determine if the wheels are truly running smoothly or if there is a tendency to pick up and lose slack in a rod joint. If there is binding, only two wheels will come under scrutiny. The front and middle wheels which were last installed will be the ones needing adjustment. Remove the screw from the middle wheel rod connection and check the front wheel only for binding. If this is smooth, the middle wheel needs to be either advanced or retarded by one spline. You should be able to determine which way by observation. If the front wheel is the one causing the bind, adjust it, reconnect it to the rod and check it again. If it is now smooth, reconnect the middle wheel and check again. It is possible that both were out. Reposition the middle wheel if necessary. Check once again for smooth rotation. Never go back to the wheels on the other side. Never change the relationship of the rear most drivers. These are the standards from which the front drivers on the one side are adjusted. Congratulations! You have successfully quartered a steam locomotive, by eye, without the use of expensive dies. I've done this twenty times or more. As I said, my engines run great! Two (and a quarter) to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12046	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/7/2001
Subject: Re: Wheel Alignment

Chris has some good points and a good question 1) Why Quartering on AF stuff Although the wheels are driven by a motor, not two cylinders, only the rear most wheels are so driven, the remaining wheels rely on the side rods to import their motion. If both sides were identical, the front wheels can get out of "sync" and bind. You need the quartering to keep them in alignment and in "sync". Actually only the rear and front wheels touch the rails, unless something is really worn! 2) Why not quarter by hand? Good procceedure, Chris! I also mention how to quarter by hand in my Dispatch article a few issues ago. As I mentioned before, I don't have a quartering tool, I must do it by eye too. BUT! notice all the rechecking, and moving required. With a quartering tool, you just drop everything into postition and put it together! Great time saver if you're working on a lot of locos or have a lot of other things to do and train repair time is precious. Keep 'em rollin'! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12047	From: belairchevy@webtv.net	Date: 3/7/2001
Subject: Liquid Smoke Test

With all the discussion on liquid smoke I tested several different brands in my 303 with a rebuilt smoke unit. Put 8 drops of liquid in and ran until smoke almost quit. LVTS had the most smoke and the best smell (cedar) RFG tied with LVTS for smoke amount but has a touch of a kerosene smell to it. (This is promoted as the original AF formula) LIONEL smoke had just slightly less smoke amount than LVTS and RFG and has no "scent", just smells like smoke but not objectionable. SUPERSMOKE had much less smoke output than the first three and a strong cedar aroma. It seems to clog the wick or had trouble being absorbed by the wick. LGB actually had more smoke output than Supersmoke but less than the first three and did not last very long. It works much better in my LGB Mogul. I did not test the MTH or Lamp oil. The garden railroad guys have used the lamp oil for years because of the cost of LGB liquid smoke. My LGB Mogul smokes more with lamp oil than LGB smoke but does not last as long. Those are my results...now what do I do with all this liquid smoke? Brad

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12048	From: Scott Holm	Date: 3/7/2001
Subject: Re: Air Chime Whistle

Before you do any adjusting of the vanes in the buzzer, try cleaning the contact points with 400 grit or higher sandpaper. You can open the can by cutting the metal band at bottom in 4 places and prying the band open. Epoxy it back together when done. By the way, the whistle button will indeed make the engine start up on an otherwise non-powered track even when it's ok. From the symptoms you describe it seems that you have it wired correctly. --- colin_olsen@... wrote: > I have hooked up (correctly, I believe) an air chime whistle control > for my AF 360A/364B. When the button is pressed the train starts up, > or if the train is moving and the button is pressed, it runs faster. > I am able to get a clicking noise from the speaker. All wires to the > track terminal are disconnected save the ones going from the terminal > > to an alternative terminal in a large layout. Any suggestions. > Thanks. > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12049	From: John DeFelice	Date: 3/7/2001
Subject: Quartering

Hi there I have also have been toying with the idea of building an alignment tool,,, but with the time it would take me to draw the plan and machine it properly,, I could quarter a few locomotives by eye,, I have had success by installing all the wheels on one side of the chassis, and then holding them in place (all facing straight down) with a rod fastened by screws without shoulders, and washers under them to clamp the wheels in place ( the rods allow a little play, which I don't want while aligning) I then flip the whole assembly over, and lightly place the wheels on the axles in line (at about 90 degrees from the other side) , You can sight down the chassis and tell that the wheels are all on the same plane.. I press them on with a 5/16" rod camped in the drill press It has never failed, & I still haven't taken the time to draw & build the alignment tool... Thanks for all the great ideas I've tried from this list,,, I'm glad I found you John [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12050	From: colin_olsen@hotmail.com	Date: 3/7/2001
Subject: Smoke

I have also experimented with smoke formulas for AF. I found a cedar perfume/oil in a bath place and tried it with lamp oil & kerosene. Lamp oil smoked great but obviously got to much cedar perfume in the mix and it really smelled pretty perfume like and not cedar like. The kerosene mix with less drops of cedar was better but did not smoke as well as lamp oil. Besides the kerosene I have is probably 50 years old. So that might make some difference. Its all fun anyway. C.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12051	From: joe messinger	Date: 3/7/2001
Subject: Quartering--Tool?

The discussion that followed my question regarding alignment tools has been very educational and I appreciate the information and individual views on the subject. I too have been quartering my locos by eye and have managed to get them running pretty well. I don't have any intention of quartering allot of locos, just the ones I own. From previous the information I've read, I assumed that the wheels had to be set up at 87 degrees and anything more or less would cause problems. Personally, I can't "eyeball" 87 degrees six times (or even one time) and be sure that it is accurate. From the recent posts, it appears that it's not that critical. I have access to a small machine shop and thought that if an alignment tool could be made without too much difficulty, I could eliminate the trial and error process and, maybe, some wear and tear on the drive wheels. Saving time isn't my foremost concern. Accuracy is what I'm more interested in. I buy a Flyer locomotive occasionally and repair/restore it. Get allot of pleasure out of working on them. I understand that a number of things can cause "glitches" in regards to the smooth operation of a Flyer locomotive. Correct quartering is just one part of the picture. When the loco I have just re-assembled demonstrates even a slight jerk or "hitch" in the mechanism while running, I always suspect my quartering job first. I just thought that the use of an alignment tool might eliminate one pitfall in the smooth running equation. Thanks for the input. Joe M. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12052	From: busyboy	Date: 3/7/2001
Subject: Re: Wheel Alignment

David said: > Chris has some good points and a good question > 1) Why Quartering on AF stuff > If both sides were identical, the front wheels can > get out of "sync" and bind. You need the quartering to keep them in > alignment and in "sync". Actually, that isn't what I asked. What I wanted to know is, why is an accuracy of just so many degrees required? I did note that if a Flyer engine were set up with ANYTHING BUT ZERO angle quartering, that is, both sides in the exact same position at the same time, that it would not affect performance in the slightest. Both sides should not be identical because at the point where the rod must change direction from forward carry to rearward carry there is a stop point. Momentum can transcend this, but having the opposite side drivers, which are connected to these drivers through the axles, turning in a different part of the cycle is enough to overcome the moment and carry the motion, even at initial start-up. The question still remains: Why 57 degrees or 85 degrees, or whatever the spec is? Is it arbitrary or is there a purpose to it? Is there a difference in performance at different angles? Who has this answer? 22go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12053	From: D Simon	Date: 3/7/2001
Subject: Re: Alignment Tool

I could sure use a tool also Dave >From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> >To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>, "joe messinger" <jmessinger@...> >Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Alignment Tool >Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 13:48:47 -0800 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from [64.211.240.232] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id >MHotMailBC6DC4B70010400431A240D3F0E898ED33; Mon Mar 05 21:46:54 2001 >Received: from [10.1.4.56] by fk.egroups.com with NNFMP; 06 Mar 2001 >05:46:32 -0000 >Received: (EGP: mail-7_0_4); 6 Mar 2001 05:46:31 -0000 >Received: (qmail 20674 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2001 05:46:31 -0000 >Received: from unknown (10.1.10.26) by l10.egroups.com with QMQP; 6 Mar >2001 05:46:31 -0000 >Received: from unknown (HELO ultra2.quiknet.com) (207.183.249.4) by mta1 >with SMTP; 6 Mar 2001 05:46:31 -0000 >Received: (qmail 18186 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2001 05:46:26 -0000 >Received: from unknown (HELO quiknet.com.quiknet.com) (207.231.75.236) by >ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 6 Mar 2001 05:46:26 -0000 >From sentto-26283-12009-983857591-aftrain Mon Mar 05 21:47:43 2001 >X-eGroups-Return: >sentto-26283-12009-983857591-aftrain=hotmail.com@... >X-Sender: djdewey@... >X-Apparently-To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com >Message-ID: <001501c0a4f5$04a5ee60$ec4be7cf@...> >References: <F300f0gh0eTZ2MErPFW0000077e@...> >X-Priority: 3 >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 >Mailing-List: list S-Trains@yahoogroups.com; contact >S-Trains-owner@yahoogroups.com >Delivered-To: mailing list S-Trains@yahoogroups.com >Precedence: bulk >List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:S-Trains-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com> > >Joe, > I believe there were different tools for the various wheel arangements >(R-1, R-2, R-3, R-4 and another set for the smaller drivers for the 0-8-0 >switcher (and maybe one for the 0-6-0 units? The interesting thing about >these is that the tool does not "quarter" the wheels, but puts them at >something like 50 degrees. Someone once posted the actual degrees. The >tool >uses the screw hole and the deep hole on the opposite side of the wheel for >alignment. I'm attaching some pics to a seperate email to Joe, as this >system just strips them for the group. Maybe he can work dimensions from >the >pics, I don't have a tool either! >S' >David D. > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to >s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12054	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 3/8/2001
Subject: Quartering

- Greeting`S' - The discussion on quartering has been interesting and educational. It seems that if the driving wheel axle bores are splined by casting or machining before the axle is fitted, that an angle close to 90 degrees may be the proper angle for assembly. The softer, plastic wheels used in the late years of production may have had smooth bores which conformed to the axle splines when pressed on. If this were the case, they could be quartered as close to 90 degrees as a fixture could permit. Of course, this is pure conjecture. What about the three-cylinder locos of the UP, SP(?), IHB, and other roads? Since there are six power strokes in 360 degrees of driver rotation, side rod pins on one side are set 60 degrees away from those on the other side. On most, if not all, of these locos, the center cylinder main rod goes to a main crank on the second axle. Because it needs swinging room, a crank or offset is built into the first axle. Aren't we glad we can do the quartering by eyeball. Cheer`S' Rhett

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12055	From: michael prell	Date: 3/8/2001
Subject: Fwd: Fw: SCAM - FW: AREA CODE 809

Hopefully this is not another "The Sky is Falling" warning. If so, I send my regrets at this time for being concerned. This might just be for real. --- SEARS <sears@...> wrote: > From: "SEARS" <sears@...> > To: "Warg" <webmaster@...>, > "Titan" <dbarkley@...>, > "Susan Lillie" <srlillie@...>, > "Spicer 2" <stmstm@...>, > "SoulKrusher" <sk@...>, > "REVENGE" <bsullivan@...>, > "Pinto" <crydgren@...>, > "Nova-_Z" <nova_z@...>, > "MWAC" <steiny@...>, > "Mike" <mlprell@...>, > "Memnoch" <memnoch@...>, > "Mary Ann Corasaniti" <mcorasan@...>, > "Marcia Kelley" <mkelley@...>, > "Lauren" <LaurenWSKG@...>, > "Laggy" <canislupus@...>, > "Kate" <sagefay@...>, > "Julie Gluck" <JMG6706@...>, > "Judy" <Rx4rd@...>, > "Jason Sherry" <jason@...>, > "ElBobbo" <mail@...>, > "Ed Kemp" <edkemp@...>, > "Duke" <Duke2000_3002@...>, > "Duffy Hart" <dhart@...>, > "Druidess" <m_james@...>, > "CJ" <cjackson@...>, > "CETORT" <cetort@...>, > "Boogarion" <boogarion@...>, > "Bob Makinson" <makinson@...>, > "Bill Geller" <geller@...>, > "Barbara Pauly" <bpauly@...>, > "Attika" <pwagner@...>, > "After~Burn" <burn@...>, > "~errtu~" <smargad@...>, > "~Di~" <mynameis@...> > Subject: Fw: SCAM - FW: AREA CODE 809 > Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 23:34:56 -0500 > > > To my E-mail contact friends, this is a good piece > of information to be > advised of I believe! > > > Date: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 9:30 PM > Subject: FW: SCAM - FW: AREA CODE 809 > > > > > >All, > > > >This is a good thing to know. This actually comes > to us from AT&T > >and Verizon who have had several customers involved > with this scam. > >I just wanted to pass this along because there > really is nothing > >that the Long Distance carriers or you local phone > company can do > >to prevent these charges if you make the call. > > > >Hope this information is useful, as this could > become a very expensive > phone > >call. > > > >Jill > > > > > >> > PLEASE READ BELOW!!!! THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT > PROVIDED TO US BY AT&T. > >> > > >> > DON'T EVER DIAL AREA CODE 809> > >> > > >> > This one is being distributed all over the US. > This is pretty > > >> scary-especially given the way they try to get > you to call. Be sure you > > >> read this & pass it on to all your friends and > family so they don't get > >> > scammed! > >> > > >> > MAJOR SCAM: > >> > Don't respond to Emails, phone calls, or web > pages which tell you to > >> call > an "809" Phone Number. This is a very > important issue of Scam > >> Busters > because it alerts you to a scam that is > spreading *extremely* > >> quickly - > can easily cost you $24100 or more, > and is difficult to avoid > >> unless you > are aware of it. We'd like to thank > Verizon for bringing > this > >> scam to our > attention. This scam has also been > identified > by the > >> National Fraud Information Center and is costing > victims a lot of > > money. > >> There are lots of different permutations of this > scam, but HERE'S > HOW > IT > >> WORKS:> > >> > > >> > You will receive a message on your answering > machine or your pager, > >> which asks you to call a number beginning with > area code 809.The reason > >> you're asked to call varies. It can be to receive > information about a > >> family member who has been ill, to tell you > someone has been arrested, > >> died, to let you know you have won a wonderful > prize, etc. In each case, > >> you are told to call the 809 number right away. > Since there are so many > >> new area > codes these days, people unknowingly > return these calls. If > you > >> call from the US, you will apparently be charged > $2425 per-minute. Or, > >> you'll get a long recorded message. The point is, > they will try to keep > >> you on the phone as long as possible to increase > the charges. > >> Unfortunately, when you get your phone bill, > you'll often be charged more > >> than $24100.00. > >> > > >> > WHY IT WORKS:> > >> > > >> > The 809 area code is located in the British > Virgin Islands (The > >> Bahamas). > The 809 area code can be used as a > "pay-per-call" number, > >> similar to 900 > numbers in the US. Since 809 is > not in the US, it is not > >> covered by U.S. > regulations of 900 numbers, > which require that you be > >> notified and warned > of charges and rates > involved when you call a > >> "pay-per-call" number. > >> > > >> > There is also no requirement that the company > provide a time period > >> during > which you may terminate the call without > being charged. Further, > >> whereas > many U.S. hones have 900 number > blocking to avoid these kinds > of > >> charges, > 900 number blocking will not prevent > calls to the 809 area > >> code. We > recommend that no matter how you get > the message, if you are > >> asked to call > a number with an 809 area code > that you don't recognize > >> and/or investigate > further and just disregard > the message. Be wary of > >> email or calls asking you to call an 809 area > code number. It's important > >> to prevent becoming a > victim of this scam, > since trying to fight the > > >> charges afterwards can become A real nightmare. > That's because you did > > >> actually make the call. If you complain, both > your local phone company > and > >> > your long distance carrier will not want to get > involved and will most > > > >> likely tell you that they are simply providing > the billing for the > foreign > >> > company. You'll end up dealing with a foreign > company that argues they > > > >> have done nothing wrong. Please forward this > entire message to your > > >> friends, family and colleagues to help them > become aware of this scam. > >> > > >> > > >> > Sandi Van Handel > >> > AT&T Field Service Manager > >> > (920) 687-9045 > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > ===== Being angry is the same as holding a hot coal in the palm of your hand. You want to hold on to it in order to throw it at another, but only hurt yourself in doing so. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12056	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 3/8/2001
Subject: Re: Fwd: Fw: SCAM - FW: AREA CODE 809

THIS IS NOT A mere scare; no " sky is falling"; VERY MUCH FOR REAL Businesses and public agencies (I work for N.Y.C.Transit Authority) in Metro area have gone as far as BLOCKING 809. Please distribute by other than E-mail as well as your forwarding these since many people don't know, and the lower life forms doing this have learned to - again - target the elderly. My parents are in their late 80's in _________ and got hurt by this one. Thanks to mlprell@yahoo and good luck to all.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12057	From: Douglass Allen	Date: 3/8/2001
Subject: quarter

To the busboy To ask for or give quarter is an expression circa 1000 A.D. It was heard at jousting contests, called "Tilts". When one party in the contest perceived that he could not win, he would say "Quarter!" This meant that he was saying: "You have the better of me sir. Please spare my life." An early 20th century equivalent was heard on schoolyards when two boys were fighting, and one would say "Uncle!" Now you tell me what "Uncle" meant. (If you like I can tell you why they called them "Tilts".) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12058	From: M.McConnell	Date: 3/8/2001
Subject: Promote S

I was thumbing through the latest (March) issue of Model Railroader and came across the "Readers Choice Award" ballot. One of the categories is S Scale and most of the well-known S manufacturers are listed. I suspect MR won't be the least impressed by who wins the S category, or even if (but highly unlikely) an S product wins the Product of the Year award, however, I wonder if they would notice a large number of S Scale votes, more than what their "2-3% of the industry is S" attitude would account for. Do you think they may consider including more S-oriented articles and reviews if they think S is now a growing interest? I'm usually not one to jump on any "let's all band together and protest" pitch, but at least for your $4.50 to buy the magazine to get a ballot - you get a couple of interesting articles on scenery, photography, electronics and modeling an industry that can be applied to S. One other observation on the ballot. There are product entries for SHS, AM, MTH, BTS, LVM, Banta, Dallee and others - but no products listed for Lionel - in any category! (Oh, and don't get me wrong - I would LOVE to see an S product win the "Product of the Year" but the decision of which one is really tough!)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12059	From: W. Thomas Boussum	Date: 3/8/2001
Subject: Driver quartering in 1:1 scale.

Hello S Gaugers, The discussion about steamm driver quartering in S Gauge reminds me of a discussion I had with my dad back in the days when I was a new S Gauger. He worked at the Reading Locomotive Shop on Sixth Street in Reading, PA as a machinist with a specislty of air brake, although his work there was not limited to air brake work. He told me that the practice was that the wheels on opposite sides were quartered 90 degrees apart. Although I really cannot remember which was 90 degrees ahead of which. A few later, when I studied torque in physics, I came to realize why that arrangement was the standard practice. If the wheels on either side were at "dead-center," with te result that the torque on them would be zero, the opposite would have maximum torque. (For those who don't know the relationship orque is the product of the force exerted times the perpendicular distance of the force from the center of the wheel.) If this relationship were to be violated the resulting rail pounding could cause serious problems. Of course, since we are driving our locomotives through smooth electrical power this is not critical. Couldn't you just imagine a quartering jig for a Union Pacific Big Boy? W. Thomas Boussum "If you want to bake an apple pie from scratch you must start by creating a universe." Carl Sagan in "Cosmos" [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12060	From: Al Rawdon	Date: 3/8/2001
Subject: Trainworld has LTI American Flyer for sale

Hi Everyone, Scott Leonard let me know that Trainworld has a sale on LTI American Flyer trains. Check it out at: http://www.trainworld.com/lionel/american_flyer.htm Enjoy, Al __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12061	From: negative_pitch@hotmail.com	Date: 3/8/2001
Subject: Re: Trainworld has LTI American Flyer for sale

You know, I didn't really see what I thought were any bargains here.. Am I missing something? Mark --- In S-Trains@y..., Al Rawdon <alsflyer@y...> wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > Scott Leonard let me know that Trainworld has a sale > on LTI American Flyer trains. > > Check it out at: > > http://www.trainworld.com/lionel/american_flyer.htm > > Enjoy, > > Al > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12062	From: Roy Inman	Date: 3/8/2001
Subject: TW ad

Mark, et al, That Trainworld ad is nothing new. Same items, same prices for months, at least. And, as you pointed out, no bargains at that. Roy Inman

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12063	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 3/8/2001
Subject: Re: TW ad

And if you mean the Trainworld \ Trainland in Brooklyn and Lynbrook, the staff (if they were wood they would be closer to human) can really be ( I am saying as nicely as I can) unfreindly.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12064	From: Doug	Date: 3/9/2001
Subject: Re: TW ad

I've noticed that too, it may be typical of people living in that area of NYC. There was one young lady that was friendly, but had a vocabulary composed mainly of four letter words not permitted on TV. I buy a some of my "G" scale stuff there, they do have some great prices on closeout items. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis A. Troini" <paladindennisalexander@...> To: <rinphoto@...> Cc: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 8:27 PM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] TW ad > And if you mean the Trainworld \ Trainland in Brooklyn and Lynbrook, the > staff (if they were wood they would be closer to human) can really be ( I > am saying as nicely as I can) unfreindly. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12065	From: rsharty@swbell.net	Date: 3/9/2001
Subject: 312

Can some one tell me how much current a 1946 312 with a motorized smoke unit in the tender supposed to draw? This one shows over 5 Amperes, but since this is a home made arraingement with a calculated shunt it may be incorrect. Rod Harty 9210 Meadow Branch Court Houston, TX 77095

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12066	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 3/9/2001
Subject: Fw: SCAM - FW: AREA CODE 809

To make this interesting and related, I am an vintage Gilbert AF collector and operator but at San Jose I thought I would buy the scale Pacific Rails convention car. I have assembled a lot of automobile car kits but this goes way beyond. The brake lines and railings are to proto 1/64th scale and the trucks won't ride on Flyer or Gargraves track. Well so much for S Scale. As for the SCAM, thanks and no thanks. There are more hoaxes and false alarms floating around than we care to know about. Let's stick to trains and intimately related topics please. Staying on the NPSG branchline of NASG track, Glenn Michael Prell wrote: Hopefully this is not another "The Sky is Falling" warning.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12067	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 3/9/2001
Subject: Re: TW ad

DOUG!! I live in NYC. I know, most of us were trained in confrontation 101 since kindergarten. But some of us are people. No offense taken. Just wish the people with manners would stay and try to make the city a better place. In the 50's and 60's this was the best place and best time to grow up. And we had the Lionel Showroom downtown. Nicer places and people charge more to try and suffer the city's fools. REALLY RUDE people and Shops charge still more. Wish to guess Who/Which??

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12068	From: Roger Zuerlein	Date: 3/9/2001
Subject: Re: PRS on AF

Glenn: The PRS cars are such nice pieces of equipment it would be a shame not to be able to have these on a highrail layout. I have found that the length of the chain and rod on the bell crank (part #11) causes the fowling of the wheel flanges on tight, AF curves. Even on my scale layout these can cause problems. Solution: Cut the rod at the chain. This will allow the trucks to swing in a greater arc allowing them to negotiate tighter curves. Scale flanges will not work reliably through the Gargraves or AF switches although I have sucessfully run them on AF track. I have not tried this, and don't know if there is clearance for them, but could you substitute a set of SHS or AM hirail wheel sets? I have an extra set if you would like to try them. This would allow you to run the cars through the switches. There is nothing quite as exhilerating as watching a car or locomotive you have built or superdatailed running on your layout The SP overnights are so well done and look so nice the need to have a special place on the rails. Good luck, Roger Zuerlein >From: Glenn Ritter <gartrain@...> >To: A/S-Trains <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> >Subject: [S-Trains] Fw: SCAM - FW: AREA CODE 809 >Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 08:14:13 -0500 > >To make this interesting and related, >I am an vintage Gilbert AF collector >and operator but at San Jose I thought >I would buy the scale Pacific Rails >convention car. I have assembled a >lot of automobile car kits but this >goes way beyond. The brake lines >and railings are to proto 1/64th scale >and the trucks won't ride on Flyer or >Gargraves track. Well so much for >S Scale. > >As for the SCAM, thanks and no thanks. >There are more hoaxes and false alarms >floating around than we care to know about. >Let's stick to trains and intimately related >topics please. > >Staying on the NPSG branchline >of NASG track, Glenn > >Michael Prell wrote: > >Hopefully this is not another "The >Sky is Falling" warning. > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to >s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12069	From: W. Thomas Boussum	Date: 3/9/2001
Subject: Steam driver quartering

Hello S Gaugers, The discussion about steam driver quartering in S Gauge reminds me of a discussion I had with my dad back in the days when I was a new S gauger. He worked at the Reading Locomotive Shop on Sixth Street in Reading, PA as a machinist with a specislty of air brake, although his work there was not limited to air brake work. He told me that the practice was that the wheels on opposite sides were quartered 90 degrees apart. Although I really cannot remember which was 90 degrees ahead of which. A few years later, when I studied torque in physics, I came to understand why that arrangement was the standard practice. If the wheels on either side were at "dead-center," with te result that the torque on them would be zero, the opposite would have maximum torque. (For those who don't remember or know the relationship orque is the product of the force exerted times the perpendicular distance of the force from the center of the wheel.) If this relationship were to be violated the resulting rail pounding could cause serious problems. Of course, since we are driving our locomotives through smooth electrical power this is not critical. Couldn't you just imagine a quartering jig for a Union Pacific Big Boy? W. Thomas Boussum "If you want to bake an apple pie from scratch you must start by creating a universe." Carl Sagan in "Cosmos" [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12070	From: Doug	Date: 3/9/2001
Subject: Re: TW ad

Dennis, No offense to you, or others in NYC. Although I have never visited TW, I have been told that particular area of NYC is a "visit at your own risk during the daytime only apart of town." Is this true??? Doug ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis A. Troini" <paladindennisalexander@...> To: <reefman@...> Cc: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 3:25 AM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] TW ad > DOUG!! I live in NYC. > I know, most of us were trained in confrontation 101 since kindergarten. > But some of us are people. > No offense taken. Just wish the people with manners would stay and try to > make the city a better place. > In the 50's and 60's this was the best place and best time to grow up. > And we had the Lionel Showroom downtown. > Nicer places and people charge more to try and suffer the city's fools. > REALLY RUDE people and Shops charge still more. > Wish to guess Who/Which?? >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12071	From: W. Thomas Boussum	Date: 3/9/2001
Subject: Sorry for the "stutter."

S Gaugers, Please forgive the "stutter," but for some unknown reason the first message was (apparently) also routed to another address and bounced back. So I sent it to the digest a second time. Then I started reading the issue I received today, and there my message was. Sometimes I think they should not have abandoned the Pony Express or at least RPO (Railway Post Office) coaches. By the way, does anyone know of a source for RPO coaches in S? W. Thomas Boussum "If you want to bake an apple pie from scratch you must start by creating the universe." Carl Sagan in Cosmos [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12072	From: wayne broadhead	Date: 3/9/2001
Subject: Re: Trainworld has LTI American Flyer for sale

I didn't see any bargains either Mark.....maybe to some the like the deals on the $100 box cars...<grin> negative_pitch@... wrote: > > You know, I didn't really see what I thought were any bargains here.. > > Am I missing something? > > Mark > > --- In S-Trains@y..., Al Rawdon <alsflyer@y...> wrote: > > Hi Everyone, > > > > Scott Leonard let me know that Trainworld has a sale > > on LTI American Flyer trains. > > > > Check it out at: > > > > http://www.trainworld.com/lionel/american_flyer.htm > > > > Enjoy, > > > > Al > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12073	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 3/9/2001
Subject: Re: PRS on AF

Glenn Ritter wrote: > To make this interesting and related,I am an vintage Gilbert AF collector > and operator but at San Jose I thoughtI would buy the scale Pacific Rails > convention car. I have assembled alot of automobile car kits but this > goes way beyond. The brake linesand railings are to proto 1/64th scale > and the trucks won't ride on Flyer orGargraves track. Well so much forS Scale. Roger Zuerlein wrote: > Glenn: > The PRS cars are such nice pieces of equipment it would be a shame not to be > able to have these on a highrail layout. I have found that the length of > the chain and rod on the bell crank (part #11) causes the fowling of the > wheel flanges on tight, AF curves. Even on my scale layout these can cause > problems. Solution: Cut the rod at the chain. This will allow the trucks > to swing in a greater arc allowing them to negotiate tighter curves. Don't give up yet, Glenn. I have sucessfully converted PRS cars to run on the SHS 19" radius curves, using SHS hirail trucks and the SHS coupler. First, do what Roger suggests above. Actually, I don't install the bell-crank and cut just the brake rod flush with the car bottom. Second, the trainline needs to be either cut off or relocated more towards the centersill in the truck area. Third, the portion of the underframe that extends past the bolster needs to be cut off. Fourth, the underframe will need to be notched a little to allow for the hirail flanges to clear. (It's easier to see where the flanges scrape than it is to describe.) Also, don't forget to add weight to the car before securing the roof. (I add two ounces, one ounce over each truck.) This weekend, I'll be packing trains for next week's All-American Train Show in La Grange, Il., so I'll try to remember to take some digi-pic's of a conversion and post them next week. Be seeing you... Rich G.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12074	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 3/9/2001
Subject: Solid vs. Stranded?

Two things, only one of which is train related. First item--thanks to all for the discussion last month on volts, amps, and current. My new layout will be wired with 14-gauge THHN. Quick question--what does the group recommend: solid wire or stranded? Each has advantages over the other. What's your preference and why, or should I use both? Second item--the Area Code 809 Scam: >>> Message: 2 Date: The, 8 Mar 2001 08:31:29 -0800 (PST) From: michael prell <mlprell@...> Subject: Fwd: Fw: SCAM - FW: AREA CODE 809 Hopefully this is not another "The Sky is Falling" warning. If so, I send my regrets at this time for being concerned. This might just be for real. >>> Michael, et al., I won't make any comments on the veracity of this scam, but I'd recommend you to the following page to get the full story: http://www.scambusters.org/809Scam.html Another page that I have bookmarked on my computer (there are several like this on the net) is: http://hoaxbusters.ciac.org/ This second site is sponsored by the U.S. Department of Energy, and is a valuable resource for information on scam chains and hoaxes. I recommend that you check it out before you forward any chain letter. YourS, John Eichmann RMHR Boise [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12075	From: Bill Porter	Date: 3/9/2001
Subject: Re: Solid vs. Stranded?

Howdy John and the Assembled Masses, Solid is fine for fixed installations. Stranded is better for situations where the wires must move or flex. I have a swing-out section, so all wires between the main benches and the swing section are stranded. There have been no failures. In times past, I used stranded at the places where wires went into control panels. Since all of my control panels were mounted with hinges, I needed the flexibility. I find it easy and simple to buy 'lamp cord' two-conductor wire for most of my longer runs. By using just one type of wire, my inventory is reduced and I become better practiced at recognizing the ribbed side from the non-ribbed side of the cord. Inside of control panels, I use some solid wire because it is easier to thread a single wire through a solder hole than to push a bunch of strands that are twisted together. Good Luck, Bill Porter -----Original Message----- From: JOHN EICHMANN <jeichmann@...> To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Date: Friday, March 09, 2001 2:10 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Solid vs. Stranded? >Two things, only one of which is train related. > >First item--thanks to all for the discussion last month on volts, amps, and current. My new layout will be wired with 14-gauge THHN. Quick question--what does the group recommend: solid wire or stranded? Each has advantages over the other. What's your preference and why, or should I use both? >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12076	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 3/9/2001
Subject: AF Alco slide pick-up shoe

In response to requests for info about a home-made pick-up shoe for earlier AF Alco diesels, I have posted a folder of pix in the "Files" here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/AF%20Alco%20Slide%20pick- up/ Also, I removed the pix of the C+D System that were huge files. If anyone's interested, I will try later to put up a folder of more pics of the layout that are easier to download. Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12077	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 3/9/2001
Subject: AF Alco slide pick-up shoe

And since the ENTIRE link was not "hyperized", the reader will need to cut and paste the link to the address bar of his/her browser to make it work. Ah, tekno-logiwockle... Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12078	From: cbrf@snet.net	Date: 3/9/2001
Subject: Train World Ad

I'll second Dennis's comments. I called their advertized number, to get prices for about 10 to 12 cars, I was thinking of ordering. I was told by the ":gentlemen" who answered, that he was busy and besides this number was for ordering only. I told him I didn't really need the cars anyway, and if I ever do order, guess who I'm not going to order from. Bill >"Message: 10 > Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 01:27:37 +0000 > From: "Dennis A. Troini" <paladindennisalexander@...> >Subject: Re: TW ad >And if you mean the Trainworld \ Trainland in Brooklyn and Lynbrook, >the >staff (if they were wood they would be closer to human) can really be ( I >am saying as nicely as I can) unfreindly."

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12079	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 3/9/2001
Subject: Virus Advice

Here are my advice on Virus prevention. (This is part of my job as a IT support person) 1) Use anti Virus software, the best kind is the kind that is kept up to date. (I use http://www.McAfee.com, it checks for updates every night) With out updates you are not fully protected. 2) Avoid MS Outlook, If that is your primary email, I suggest you use a 'web based' email for as much of your mail as possible. (I use YahooMail & NetscapeWebMail) These web based mail also have a built in virus protection. They also treat attachments differently than Outlook does. 3) With the exception of Outlook, opening a piece of mail does usually not pose a risk. I know of no risk from .jpg files. The most common threats are .EXE files and .VBS files. 4) If you get a note that sez, "Virus Alert" 'don't open the note..' & 'sent this to ALL your friends'. This is probably a HOAX. You can check an see if it is over on the http://www.McAfee.com site. Don't be hoax'ed. 5) If you get a note from someone and your virus software identifies a Virus in it. Go to McAfee, find the info page and send that person the like. These pages tell folks about their infection, and how they can get 'un-infected'. 6) If you don't feel like doing any of step 5, send me the name of the victim and the name of the virus, and I will assist them. Now back to TRAINS -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://S-Trains.com (alt e-mail PaulYorke@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12080	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 3/9/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, March 11, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12081	From: Victor Bereskin	Date: 3/9/2001
Subject: Quartering

In an aside related to quartering on 12" = 1 foot scale, live steam: In a pneumatic or steam cylinder the force on the push stroke is greater than the power on the pull stroke, due to the presence of the rod in the cylinder. On a locomotive, this results in two different chuffs. On a two cylinder locomotive with the wheels quartered, for each revolution of the drivers there are the cylinders go push1, push2, pull1, pull2. This gives a sound along the lines of CHOO CHOO choo choo CHOO CHOO choo choo. On a three cylinder locomotive with the wheels (triaded?) the cylinders would go push 1, pull 3, push 2, pull 1, push 3, pull 2. The sound then would be CHOO choo CHOO choo CHOO choo. This assumes that both locomotives are not compounded, but use primary steam in all cylinders. ----- Original Message ----- From: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 3:54 AM Subject: [S-Trains] Digest Number 936 > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > There are 10 messages in this issue. > > Topics in this digest: > > 1. Quartering > From: "Rhett T. George" <rtg@...> > 2. Fwd: Fw: SCAM - FW: AREA CODE 809 > From: michael prell <mlprell@...> > 3. Re: Fwd: Fw: SCAM - FW: AREA CODE 809 > From: "Dennis A. Troini" <paladindennisalexander@...> > 4. quarter > From: "Douglass Allen" <douglass@...> > 5. Promote S > From: "M.McConnell" <mmcconn@...> > 6. Driver quartering in 1:1 scale. > From: "W. Thomas Boussum" <euler@...> > 7. Trainworld has LTI American Flyer for sale > From: Al Rawdon <alsflyer@...> > 8. Re: Trainworld has LTI American Flyer for sale > From: negative_pitch@... > 9. TW ad > From: "Roy Inman" <rinphoto@...> > 10. Re: TW ad > From: "Dennis A. Troini" <paladindennisalexander@...> > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 11:05:05 -0500 > From: "Rhett T. George" <rtg@...> > Subject: Quartering > > - Greeting`S' - > > The discussion on quartering has been interesting and educational. > It seems that if the driving wheel axle bores are splined by casting > or machining before the axle is fitted, that an angle close to 90 > degrees may be the proper angle for assembly. The softer, plastic > wheels used in the late years of production may have had smooth bores > which conformed to the axle splines when pressed on. If this were > the case, they could be quartered as close to 90 degrees as a fixture > could permit. Of course, this is pure conjecture. > > What about the three-cylinder locos of the UP, SP(?), IHB, and other > roads? Since there are six power strokes in 360 degrees of driver > rotation, side rod pins on one side are set 60 degrees away from those > on the other side. On most, if not all, of these locos, the center > cylinder main rod goes to a main crank on the second axle. Because > it needs swinging room, a crank or offset is built into the first axle. > > Aren't we glad we can do the quartering by eyeball. > > Cheer`S' > Rhett > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 08:31:29 -0800 (PST) > From: michael prell <mlprell@...> > Subject: Fwd: Fw: SCAM - FW: AREA CODE 809 > > Hopefully this is not another "The Sky is Falling" > warning. If so, I send my regrets at this time for > being concerned. This might just be for real. > --- SEARS <sears@...> wrote: > > From: "SEARS" <sears@...> > > To: "Warg" <webmaster@...>, > > "Titan" <dbarkley@...>, > > "Susan Lillie" <srlillie@...>, > > "Spicer 2" <stmstm@...>, > > "SoulKrusher" <sk@...>, > > "REVENGE" <bsullivan@...>, > > "Pinto" <crydgren@...>, > > "Nova-_Z" <nova_z@...>, > > "MWAC" <steiny@...>, > > "Mike" <mlprell@...>, > > "Memnoch" <memnoch@...>, > > "Mary Ann Corasaniti" <mcorasan@...>, > > "Marcia Kelley" <mkelley@...>, > > "Lauren" <LaurenWSKG@...>, > > "Laggy" <canislupus@...>, > > "Kate" <sagefay@...>, > > "Julie Gluck" <JMG6706@...>, > > "Judy" <Rx4rd@...>, > > "Jason Sherry" <jason@...>, > > "ElBobbo" <mail@...>, > > "Ed Kemp" <edkemp@...>, > > "Duke" <Duke2000_3002@...>, > > "Duffy Hart" <dhart@...>, > > "Druidess" <m_james@...>, > > "CJ" <cjackson@...>, > > "CETORT" <cetort@...>, > > "Boogarion" <boogarion@...>, > > "Bob Makinson" <makinson@...>, > > "Bill Geller" <geller@...>, > > "Barbara Pauly" <bpauly@...>, > > "Attika" <pwagner@...>, > > "After~Burn" <burn@...>, > > "~errtu~" <smargad@...>, > > "~Di~" <mynameis@...> > > Subject: Fw: SCAM - FW: AREA CODE 809 > > Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 23:34:56 -0500 > > > > > > To my E-mail contact friends, this is a good piece > > of information to be > > advised of I believe! > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 9:30 PM > > Subject: FW: SCAM - FW: AREA CODE 809 > > > > > > > > > >All, > > > > > >This is a good thing to know. This actually comes > > to us from AT&T > > >and Verizon who have had several customers involved > > with this scam. > > >I just wanted to pass this along because there > > really is nothing > > >that the Long Distance carriers or you local phone > > company can do > > >to prevent these charges if you make the call. > > > > > >Hope this information is useful, as this could > > become a very expensive > > phone > > >call. > > > > > >Jill > > > > > > > > >> > PLEASE READ BELOW!!!! THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT > > PROVIDED TO US BY AT&T. > > >> > > > >> > DON'T EVER DIAL AREA CODE 809> > > >> > > > >> > This one is being distributed all over the US. > > This is pretty > > > >> scary-especially given the way they try to get > > you to call. Be sure you > > > >> read this & pass it on to all your friends and > > family so they don't get > > >> > scammed! > > >> > > > >> > MAJOR SCAM: > > >> > Don't respond to Emails, phone calls, or web > > pages which tell you to > > >> call > an "809" Phone Number. This is a very > > important issue of Scam > > >> Busters > because it alerts you to a scam that is > > spreading *extremely* > > >> quickly - > can easily cost you $24100 or more, > > and is difficult to avoid > > >> unless you > are aware of it. We'd like to thank > > Verizon for bringing > > this > > >> scam to our > attention. This scam has also been > > identified > by the > > >> National Fraud Information Center and is costing > > victims a lot of > > > money. > > >> There are lots of different permutations of this > > scam, but HERE'S > HOW > > IT > > >> WORKS:> > > >> > > > >> > You will receive a message on your answering > > machine or your pager, > > >> which asks you to call a number beginning with > > area code 809.The reason > > >> you're asked to call varies. It can be to receive > > information about a > > >> family member who has been ill, to tell you > > someone has been arrested, > > >> died, to let you know you have won a wonderful > > prize, etc. In each case, > > >> you are told to call the 809 number right away. > > Since there are so many > > >> new area > codes these days, people unknowingly > > return these calls. If > > you > > >> call from the US, you will apparently be charged > > $2425 per-minute. Or, > > >> you'll get a long recorded message. The point is, > > they will try to keep > > >> you on the phone as long as possible to increase > > the charges. > > >> Unfortunately, when you get your phone bill, > > you'll often be charged more > > >> than $24100.00. > > >> > > > >> > WHY IT WORKS:> > > >> > > > >> > The 809 area code is located in the British > > Virgin Islands (The > > >> Bahamas). > The 809 area code can be used as a > > "pay-per-call" number, > > >> similar to 900 > numbers in the US. Since 809 is > > not in the US, it is not > > >> covered by U.S. > regulations of 900 numbers, > > which require that you be > > >> notified and warned > of charges and rates > > involved when you call a > > >> "pay-per-call" number. > > >> > > > >> > There is also no requirement that the company > > provide a time period > > >> during > which you may terminate the call without > > being charged. Further, > > >> whereas > many U.S. hones have 900 number > > blocking to avoid these kinds > > of > > >> charges, > 900 number blocking will not prevent > > calls to the 809 area > > >> code. We > recommend that no matter how you get > > the message, if you are > > >> asked to call > a number with an 809 area code > > that you don't recognize > > >> and/or investigate > further and just disregard > > the message. Be wary of > > >> email or calls asking you to call an 809 area > > code number. It's important > > >> to prevent becoming a > victim of this scam, > > since trying to fight the > > > >> charges afterwards can become A real nightmare. > > That's because you did > > > >> actually make the call. If you complain, both > > your local phone company > > and > > >> > your long distance carrier will not want to get > > involved and will most > > > > > >> likely tell you that they are simply providing > > the billing for the > > foreign > > >> > company. You'll end up dealing with a foreign > > company that argues they > > > > > >> have done nothing wrong. Please forward this > > entire message to your > > > >> friends, family and colleagues to help them > > become aware of this scam. > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > Sandi Van Handel > > >> > AT&T Field Service Manager > > >> > (920) 687-9045 > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > ===== > Being angry is the same as holding a hot coal in the palm of your hand. You want to hold on to it in order to throw it at another, but only hurt yourself in doing so. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 12:37:31 +0000 > From: "Dennis A. Troini" <paladindennisalexander@...> > Subject: Re: Fwd: Fw: SCAM - FW: AREA CODE 809 > > THIS IS NOT A mere scare; no " sky is falling"; VERY MUCH FOR REAL > > Businesses and public agencies (I work for N.Y.C.Transit Authority) in > Metro area have gone as far as BLOCKING 809. > > Please distribute by other than E-mail as well as your forwarding these > since many people don't know, > and the lower life forms doing this have learned to - again - target the > elderly. > > My parents are in their late 80's in _________ and got hurt by this one. > Thanks to mlprell@yahoo and good luck to all. > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 12:22:28 -0800 > From: "Douglass Allen" <douglass@...> > Subject: quarter > > To the busboy > To ask for or give quarter is an expression circa 1000 A.D. It was heard at jousting contests, called "Tilts". > When one party in the contest perceived that he could not win, he would say "Quarter!" This meant that he was saying: > "You have the better of me sir. Please spare my life." An early 20th century equivalent was heard on schoolyards when two boys were fighting, and one would say "Uncle!" > Now you tell me what "Uncle" meant. (If you like I can tell you why they called them "Tilts".) > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 15:44:05 -0500 > From: "M.McConnell" <mmcconn@...> > Subject: Promote S > > I was thumbing through the latest (March) issue of Model Railroader and > came across the "Readers Choice Award" ballot. One of the categories is S > Scale and most of the well-known S manufacturers are listed. I suspect MR > won't be the least impressed by who wins the S category, or even if (but > highly unlikely) an S product wins the Product of the Year award, however, > I wonder if they would notice a large number of S Scale votes, more than > what their "2-3% of the industry is S" attitude would account for. Do you > think they may consider including more S-oriented articles and reviews if > they think S is now a growing interest? > > I'm usually not one to jump on any "let's all band together and protest" > pitch, but at least for your $4.50 to buy the magazine to get a ballot - > you get a couple of interesting articles on scenery, photography, > electronics and modeling an industry that can be applied to S. > > One other observation on the ballot. There are product entries for SHS, AM, > MTH, BTS, LVM, Banta, Dallee and others - but no products listed for Lionel > - in any category! > > (Oh, and don't get me wrong - I would LOVE to see an S product win the > "Product of the Year" but the decision of which one is really tough!) > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 18:26:17 -0500 > From: "W. Thomas Boussum" <euler@...> > Subject: Driver quartering in 1:1 scale. > > Hello S Gaugers, > The discussion about steamm driver quartering in S Gauge reminds me > of a discussion I had with my dad back in the days when I was a new S > Gauger. He worked at the Reading Locomotive Shop on Sixth Street in > Reading, PA as a machinist with a specislty of air brake, although his > work there was not limited to air brake work. He told me that the > practice was that the wheels on opposite sides were quartered 90 degrees > apart. Although I really cannot remember which was 90 degrees ahead of > which. > A few later, when I studied torque in physics, I came to realize > why that arrangement was the standard practice. If the wheels on either > side were at "dead-center," with te result that the torque on them would > be zero, the opposite would have maximum torque. (For those who don't > know the relationship orque is the product of the force exerted times > the perpendicular distance of the force from the center of the wheel.) > If this relationship were to be violated the resulting rail pounding > could cause serious problems. > Of course, since we are driving our locomotives through smooth > electrical power this is not critical. > Couldn't you just imagine a quartering jig for a Union Pacific Big > Boy? > W. Thomas Boussum > > "If you want to bake an apple pie from scratch you must start by > creating a universe." Carl Sagan in "Cosmos" > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 7 > Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 17:46:38 -0800 (PST) > From: Al Rawdon <alsflyer@...> > Subject: Trainworld has LTI American Flyer for sale > > Hi Everyone, > > Scott Leonard let me know that Trainworld has a sale > on LTI American Flyer trains. > > Check it out at: > > http://www.trainworld.com/lionel/american_flyer.htm > > Enjoy, > > Al > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 8 > Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 04:43:31 -0000 > From: negative_pitch@... > Subject: Re: Trainworld has LTI American Flyer for sale > > You know, I didn't really see what I thought were any bargains here.. > > > Am I missing something? > > Mark > > > > --- In S-Trains@y..., Al Rawdon <alsflyer@y...> wrote: > > Hi Everyone, > > > > Scott Leonard let me know that Trainworld has a sale > > on LTI American Flyer trains. > > > > Check it out at: > > > > http://www.trainworld.com/lionel/american_flyer.htm > > > > Enjoy, > > > > Al > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 9 > Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 23:27:03 -0600 > From: "Roy Inman" <rinphoto@...> > Subject: TW ad > > Mark, et al, > That Trainworld ad is nothing new. Same items, same prices for months, at > least. > And, as you pointed out, no bargains at that. > Roy Inman > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 10 > Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 01:27:37 +0000 > From: "Dennis A. Troini" <paladindennisalexander@...> > Subject: Re: TW ad > > And if you mean the Trainworld \ Trainland in Brooklyn and Lynbrook, the > staff (if they were wood they would be closer to human) can really be ( I > am saying as nicely as I can) unfreindly. > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12082	From: Tom Young	Date: 3/9/2001
Subject: 312

My 312's draw 2 3/4 amps for the '46' model and 2 1/2 amps for the later SIT. So you are drawing way too much current like you suspected. Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12083	From: Scott Holm	Date: 3/9/2001
Subject: Silver Bullet pulls 40 cars!

I got a 356 Silver Bullet off Ebay and it runs great. It was able to pull 40 cars around a a rectangular loop made with wide-radius k-line curves. There were 26 regular Flyer, 3 LTI Flyer, 5 SHS, 2 AM, and 4 converted Industrial Rail cars. The nose of the engine was less than a car length behind the last car as it went around the loop. How about that! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12084	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 3/9/2001
Subject: MATCHING MAROON AND DARK GREEN PAINT

Not among the selection of paints AF parts dealers carry is a Maroon, or Dark Green to match the 652-653-654 passenger cars. Can anyone reccommend a color match in a comercially available hobby paint?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12085	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 3/9/2001
Subject: Re: MATCHING MAROON AND DARK GREEN PAINT

One thing to consider when trying to match an AF color is that Gilbert didn't get these colors perfectly consistent everytime themselves. But, here's some readily available paints (Testor's Enamel) that will get you into the ballpark... For the maroon on passenger cars, I mix 4 drops of #1111 dark blue into a full jar (1/4 oz.) of #1104 dark red. Both are gloss paint. Be sure to mix the blue thoroughly before extracting the drops. I measure the drops by sticking a toothpick into the blue and letting 1 drop at a time fall into the red. After drying, this color precisely matches a certain 918 mail car we have. The shade can be varied easily by varying the # of blue drops per 1/4 oz. of red. I have used as many as 8 to get the right shade of maroon for various touch-ups. For the green, I have used #1171 beret green, which is a flat color. If it needs darkening, a drop or two of gloss black per 1/4 oz. works well. Any hobby shop should have Testor's Enamel. Even TRU has it. Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12086	From: hsjobbins@juno.com	Date: 3/10/2001
Subject: AF Alco Slide Power Pick

Great design and presentation in pic files. This is worth a publication article in "Dispatch" and "S Gaugian". The fact that you have created a two point contact nearly the width between the drive wheels assures a power point from the rail even better that the floating AF slider, as your design has a wider footprint on the rail. And you of course got rid of the arcing between the axles to chassis by by passing this area in routing the power on this early generation unit take a minute and check these files.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12087	From: Rick Evans	Date: 3/10/2001
Subject: To the Sunday night chat crowd......& shows?

May not be at chat again,...possibly heading to the GATS at the Cow Palace up San Francisco way,....according to the GATS schedule, this is their last show in northern Calif. until the Pleasanton show in Nov. So how about it, all you quiet Calif. "S"'ers on the list....any other shows I should know about other than the GATS?? I always see a lot of Flyer at these shows up north, and I didn't travel to any last year, (ebay came into my life!), so I'm ready for a good show, and I know I'll kick myself if I don't go to S.F.!! The Santa Barbara show was nice, but not a lot of Flyer, real slim! Had a big storm,..The wind and the rain was so bad, along with it being dark, my daughter and I ending up getting a motel room. Smart move on our part, heavy flooding on several roads and highways. She seemed to enjoy the train show, ( for alittle while anyway!), but her first stay in a motel made her trip!! Hope you all have a good weekend,....and no, there are no cows at the "Cow Palace",...unless there is a rodeo there!! Rick ("Keep yer rails clean") Evans

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12088	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 3/10/2001
Subject: Contributions

Many of you who subscribe to S Gaugian or are NASG members and receive the Dispatch may have read about the project of one of our members, Pete Hildenbrand. He puts together train sets, which his daughter, who is a school teacher, distributes to needy students at Christmas time. One student even sleeps with his engine. If any of you have some old AF equipment out there which you are ashamed to operate or is just not of your quality standards, would you consider donating it to this effort? This can be cars with broken steps, repaints, Crayola specials, etc. Also, we need common, non-desirable locos such as Casey Jones and hard-wired (nonreversible) or switch-reversible (e.g., 21085) Atlantics. Finally, we need those boat anchors in your closet (i.e., beginner set transformers) and curved track in any condition (Pete has plenty of straight track, believe it or not). Any and all contributions would be appreciated. Get an unfortunate kid started in trains. And not just any train, but an S gauge train. Help grow the future of S gauge. Please send any donations to me. I will test and repair them at no charge, and pass them onto Pete. We appreciate anything that you might be willing to donate and thank you for helping Pete in this worthwhile effort. Joe ===== Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,100 part lines American Models ########################## S-Helper Service Official Licensed Dealer for Gilbert Reproductions joestrainrepair@... Master Charge/Visa __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12089	From: busyboy	Date: 3/10/2001
Subject: Trainworld/Trainland

I am really starting to dislike e-mail and the process of list posting. I find that it has become akin to gossip, in which little hurtful comments are passed and allowed to hang there for a day or so, accreting truth by virtue of their existence, before anyone with some actual knowledge has an opportunity to refute them. I don't much like Trainworld/Trainland, either. I have done an extensive amount of business with them over the course of the last thirty years. Their policies seem to me to embody greed and avarice. They specialize in taking advantage of the rube. I have been in the Lynbrook store when a clerk offered someone $60 for a box of Lionel trains. He seemed genuinely sorry that he could not offer more, but these were such common items and they already had so many. I glanced into the box and saw a GG-1 and several orange and blue boxes of cars. The rube sold the clerk the box and took his sixty bucks, as so many others must have done over the years. These storeowners, and others like them, have used their powerbase to convince ordinary schmos that the reality of the train market was not the fantasy they had in their head. On the other hand, if you came in to buy a GG-1, they would attempt to convince you of the rarity and quality of their offerings. Fact is, most of us wish we owned Trainworld. Wouldn't it have been great to buy up all those attics full of trains out there for 20 cents on the dollar? These guys did. When I go into Trainworld, I assess what they've got and I make offers. If they hold firm to some fantasy price, I tell them just what tunnel they can store that train in. And then I walk out. You cannot bargain on the Internet. You can in face to face exchanges. Trainworld can beat anyone's price on new Flyer. Just buy it in the first year. After that, the price goes up. Trainworld/Trainland has EVERYTHING ever made in LTI/Flyer, and they have it in quantity. I know that they have more than twenty Southern Pacific passenger sets left. They bought huge inventories of this stuff when it came out and planned to warehouse it until the price went up. Seems wrong, doesn't it? Retailers should sell for retail, not trade in the aftermarket like collectors, no? Think about it. Knowing what you know right now, if you suddenly awoke tomorrow morning and found yourself to be a hobby store owner in 1946, wouldn't you start stockpiling Gilbert and Lionel items? About the neighborhoods surrounding the two Trainworld/Trainland stores. Lynbrook, the dyslexic namesake of Brooklyn, is a suburban setting. The town is filled with one family homes. Many, especially on its border with Rockville Center, are rather upscale. This part of Long Island is densely populated, but is still a safe and desirable location. The area near the Brooklyn store is under an "el", but is adjacent to a very densly populated multi-unit apartment building zone on Ocean Parkway. There is great ethnic diversity in Brooklyn. This part is dominated by middle class and upwardly mobile Jews, and bordered by an Hispanic working class neighborhood. McDonald Avenue itself has many businesses and is likely to be dark and unhospitable at night. With the advent of pervasive drug use and its resultant criminality, any desolate urban landscape is potentially dangerous at night. New York City has made great strides in lowering the crime rate, but no one is immune and common sense must prevail. In the daytime, this and most areas of the city, are busy and safe for general use. No one need fear walking on McDonald Avenue to go to this store. I want to address the remark about people in this part of the country being accustomed to being rude and foul-mouthed. I've used plenty of curses in my life. I am not a pervert nor am I a low-life. I think I am a fairly healthy man with a passionate sense of personal expression. I do not pepper all my remarks with four letter words. I, and the 11 million or so people who surround me, get along with each other in amazingly courteous and hospitable ways. I do not doubt the veracity of your story. I simply dismiss the idea that you can generalize your anecdote to include us all. I have hundreds of city tales to refute any one you can offer. Mine will warm your heart and reaffirm your faith in mankind. New York is not the crime capital of the world. It is not the black hole of sin and degradation that so many who have never been here seem to think it is. You certainly can find sin, degradation, crime, evil, hatred and anything else here if you know where to look, because this is the city, the center. It's ALL here, the bad and the good. This is the home of Cardinal Egan, the Pope's right hand man in America. This is where most of that TV you watch is made. This is the place where your beloved Gilbert Hall of Science was located, and where the annual Toy Fair still sets the tone for the toy industry worldwide. Do you think all of that is going on under a pile of cocaine while we stab each other and scream obscenities? Go to a video store and rent the PBS documentary on New York. Get a sense of the place. Next vacation, come here. See what the epicenter of civilization looks like. Feel it hum. Then, when you feel the need to pass a remark about New Yorkers in the future, it will at least be tempered by actual experience and not fueled by nonsensical hyperbole. Two to go, (walkin' in Central Park) Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12090	From: David	Date: 3/10/2001
Subject: Whats in a #30 Highway Signs Kit?

Can someone send me a picture of a complete in the box #30 Highway Signs Kit. I have a box, but I am unclear on the correct contents. Greenbergs lists 7 signs, but the A.G. Gilberts Heritage book says and shows 8 signs. So I know 8 is most likely correct. But how many were really yellow, and how many were really white, and what did each in each color say? Thanks in advance.... Dave

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12091	From: lancemccold@chartertn.net	Date: 3/10/2001
Subject: Bushings for diesel motor chassis

I got several helpful cautions about the difficulty of rebushing the diesel chassis in response to a previous post. Thanks to all for the helpful information. I am still thinking about giving it a try as I do not have much use for a locomotive that can barely get itself arount the track. I welcome any other advice on how to do this rebushing sucessfully. However, unless I can find the bushings, there is no getting started. Does anyone know where to get the oilite bearings Barker describes on page 29 of his book--or a suitable substitute? Thanks in advance. Lance McCold

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12092	From: Rick Evans	Date: 3/10/2001
Subject: Re: Whats in a #30 Highway Signs Kit?

In the 1951 catalog, there is a No.30A Highway sign set. It says there are eight signs in the set,..."includes measured mile, Stop, No Left turn, Speed limit, "S" Curve, R.R., and Parkway",..doesn't mention what the eighth sign is. The picture isn't in color,...but they look to be all white. There is also a No.31A Railroad marker set with eight signs. Hand painted and are die-cast. Hope this helps somewhat. Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12094	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 3/10/2001
Subject: AF Alco slide pick-up shoe info

For those curious, Re: materials and dimensions... The base mount of the shoe is formed from a 1/2" length of 1/4" brass angle. The bottom (horizontal) side of the angle is trimmed to about 1/8" (or slightly less). A U-shaped slot about 1/8" wide is cut into the center of the vertical side of the angle, down to about 1/16" from the bottom. The resulting "fork" will slide under the head of the yoke screw. Soldered to the base lengthwise is a "leaf" contact 1 3/4" long and 1/8" wide, made of 0.005" sheet brass. (Copper of the same thickness would be better, but brass is adequate.) The longer leaf end should be 25/32" from the nearest base end. The leaf will need to be located on the bottom (outside) of the base, with the leaf's outer edge protruding just slightly outside the vertical part of the base. This may take some experimentation; the exact side-to-side position of the leaf depends on how "bowed" your sideframes may or may not be, as well as how much side-play the wheels have. Soldered on top of each tip of the leaf is a 1/8" square piece of brass about 0.030" thick. This will provide some "meat" for screw threads. Screw hole centers are 3/32" from the ends, centered side-to-side, bored with a #50 drill bit. After tapping with a 2-56 thread tap, 2- 56 machine screws can be inserted from the bottom up. Any excess shank will be cut away, so it pays to use the shortest screws available. I used round head screws, and ground the heads flat slightly to get more wheel clearance and smooth-out tracking. That chore could have been avoided (probably) by using pan head screws. I don't recommend counter-sunk screws for this. Since screws have been employed here for durability as well as replaceability, I used steel screws instead of brass. If I'm not mistaken, stainless steel screws are a bit harder than normal steel, and should wear even longer. Not having worn these out yet, I don't know just how long they will last. The flexible parts of the leaf should "droop" a few degrees to assure reliable contact with the rail. The amount of upward force applied by the shoe will not be enough to significantly reduce tractive effort. Drag is also insignificant. Most of the actions above were accomplished with the help of a moto- tool to cut, grind, and shape. A 25 watt soldering pen was adequate for all soldering, given the small size of the parts. The materials and tools used are available at any hobby shop worthy of the term. Happy training... Chuck Furlong

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12095	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/11/2001
Subject: smoke opinion

I have 15 1/2 oz bottles of smoke fluid that I made and think It is very close to the org Flyer fluid....It is free but if you would like to send the postage back thats up to you...Mainly I need your honest opinion as to the Quality and the smell Also input as to price.... I think I can put it out for $10.00 for 4oz...Need feedback on that also I do'nt know the cost of shipping as yet and it my be unlabled for cost reasons/ but may have to for legal cr*p Chris Zizzo I welcom your point of view as you will tell it like it is MIke S. Will post when I have enough "NOSES" To me it Smells great and Smores the same way I used it in a 342 b est engine INHO around

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12096	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/11/2001
Subject: SMOKE

PLEASE CONTACT ME OFF POST

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12097	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 3/11/2001
Subject: Re: AF Alco slide pick-up shoe info

Guys, This sounds like a lot of work. Would there be enough interest to have the part photomilled? We could do it in phos. bronze and it would a lot less hassle. I need some feed back and and old sample. Tom D. ----- Original Message ----- From: <eighthmile@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2001 12:25 AM Subject: [S-Trains] AF Alco slide pick-up shoe info > For those curious, Re: materials and dimensions... > > The base mount of the shoe is formed from a 1/2" length of 1/4" brass > angle. The bottom (horizontal) side of the angle is trimmed to about > 1/8" (or slightly less). A U-shaped slot about 1/8" wide is cut into > the center of the vertical side of the angle, down to about 1/16" > from the bottom. The resulting "fork" will slide under the head of > the yoke screw. > > Soldered to the base lengthwise is a "leaf" contact 1 3/4" long and > 1/8" wide, made of 0.005" sheet brass. (Copper or bronze of the same > thickness would be better, but brass is adequate.) The longer leaf > end should be 25/32" from the nearest base end. The leaf will need to > be located on the bottom (outside) of the base, with the leaf's outer > edge protruding just slightly outside the vertical part of the base. > This may take some experimentation; the exact side-to-side position > of the leaf depends on how "bowed" your sideframes may or may not be, > as well as how much side-play the wheels have. > > Soldered on top of each tip of the leaf is a 1/8" square piece of > brass about 0.030" thick. This will provide some "meat" for screw > threads. > > Screw hole centers are 3/32" from the ends, centered side-to-side, > bored with a #50 drill bit. After tapping with a 2-56 thread tap, 2- > 56 machine screws can be inserted from the bottom up. Any excess > shank will be cut away, so it pays to use the shortest screws > available. I used round head screws, and ground the heads flat > slightly to get more wheel clearance and smooth-out tracking. That > chore could have been avoided (probably) by using pan head screws. I > don't recommend counter-sunk screws for this. > > Since screws have been employed here for durability as well as > replaceability, I used steel screws instead of brass. If I'm not > mistaken, stainless steel screws are a bit harder than normal steel, > and should wear even longer. Not having worn these out yet, I don't > know just how long they will last. > > Most of the actions above were accomplished with the help of a moto- > tool to cut, grind, and shape. A 25 watt soldering pen was adequate > for all soldering, given the small size of the parts. The materials > used are available at any hobby shop worthy of the term. > > Happy training... > > Chuck Furlong > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12098	From: Douglass Allen	Date: 3/11/2001
Subject: Highway signs

The 1949 catalog shows a No. 30 Highway sign kit first row: Speed limit 40 mph, to Parkway, No Left Turn. all yellow second row: Begin Measured Mile, End Measured Mile. both white third row: S-Curve, yellow,; RR, white,; STOP, yellow. Also shows items 31,32,578 1950 Catalog shows the same plus item 35 1951 Catalog describes contents,(same as 30) shows black and white picture of 30 A % 31 A too small to read, arangement in box is different than 30 & 31. 1952 Catalog shows signs without box; but here one can see why it changed from 30 to 30A. They are different signs. To Parkway, No Left Turn, School, STOP, Winding Road (Not S-Curve as it says in the caption), Men Working, US 6, One Hour Parking. B&W pic but School, STOP and Men Working appear to be yellow. STOP is lacking "thru traffic" which appears in 30. 1953 30A, 31 A, no longer cataloged. But 34 is; for one year only! That's gotta go high. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12099	From: Douglass Allen	Date: 3/11/2001
Subject: busyboy

I too am put off by off hand comments which get into e-mail. Many off these the same people would crumple them up and throw them away if they found themselves writing them on paper with pen. We are properly taken to task for it. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12100	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 3/11/2001
Subject: Re: AF Alco slide pick-up shoe info

What I would like to know about this shoe is : how does it do in terms of snagging switch frogs, crossings, uncouplers, rerailers, and other obstacles? Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12101	From: Scott Holm	Date: 3/11/2001
Subject: Ebay Warning.

Just wanted to tell everybody to be sure to check the bidding history on any of the closed auctions they have recently bid on to see if any of the bidders are suspect. Click on the bidder's feedback ratings to see the bidder's feedback comments and who is leaving their feedback, especially if the bidder's feedback rating is 1 or 2. You may have paid more than you should have. I have uncovered evidence of shilling in 13 recent AF auctions. I'm reporting the seller to Ebay, but I wanted to let you all know in case you wanted to contact the seller to try and recoup your losses or leave appropriate feedback. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12102	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 3/11/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, March 11, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12103	From: John Foley	Date: 3/11/2001
Subject: Coming Events

Hi Folks I picked up the April issue of Model Railroader. Our NASG convention is list first under national conventions on page 121. Now before I get jumped I will answer some Questions. I don't know why they didn't list our website or my email address. It is free. John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12104	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 3/11/2001
Subject: New file uploaded to S-Trains

Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the S-Trains group. File : /photo_shoot2.JPG Uploaded by : yorke@... Description : Big photo shoot down by the tracks, with a model too. You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/photo_shoot2.JPG To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, yorke@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12105	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 3/11/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] MR Coming Events

Hi John and others, Since everyone doesn't have web access, MR doesn't require an email or web site address but will print one if space is available. My guess is by looking at page 120 is that the web address might have been there at one time and sacraficed after the "paste-up" stage to avoid a widow or orphan. I watched both Roger Carp and Pete Wicklund wrestle with the time consuming job of making the most important stuff fit the space they were given without slighting an organization of its chance of getting a free plug. I imagine the information age has just made the Coming Events column job worse. For instance if a web address is too long, it'll wrap incorrectly and readers that are less-than-web-savvy will type in the wrong address. And guess who they call... :-) Anyway, look at the nine requirements on page 121 of the April issue and that's exactly what MR is obliged to print. I hope this answered the question. Of course the sure-fire way to get the web site printed might be to advertise in MR and on Trains.com. Just a thought. Better yet, maybe we'll get lucky and the web address will show up in next month's issue. — Keith Thompson West John Foley wrote: > > Hi Folks > I picked up the April issue of Model Railroader. > Our NASG convention is list first under national conventions > on page 121. Now before I get jumped I will answer some > Questions. I don't know why they didn't list our website or > my email address. It is free. > > John > > The topic is S Scale please keep your messages 'on-topic'. > To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12106	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/11/2001
Subject: SMOKE TESTERS

Thank all of you that answered the call to test my smoke.... Hopfully it will be as pleaseing to your noses as mine....But my little house now smells lkie a Cedar chest So your input is sorly needed It should be mailed out Monday AM.... as I knew a free offer would spark a great response I made a few more samples then stated so if ther are a few more that want a sample let me know....But tonight is the cut off....Please remember vto send the postage when you get it as I found out how much 30 samples cost to mail... looking forward to your response....Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12107	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 3/11/2001
Subject: paint stripping and refinishing 101

I'm sure that this has been covered before but I probably deleted any past responses. I picked up a few common flyer cars at a local stop of the GATS caravan and have a few others coming and I want to strip off existing paint so I may repaint and decal. it goes without saying that the job is easier with the trucks removed. What works best to remove all of the old paint without damaging the plastic? Brake fluid, Pine Sol. Would you soak the car overnight or coat and scrub? also any special surface prep? Thanks Jeff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12108	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 3/11/2001
Subject: Freebee link trucks

Anyone out there want a pair of link trucks? they're take-offs from a car I will be repainting in the near future. First response will get them Jeff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12109	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 3/11/2001
Subject: Re: paint stripping and refinishing 101

I have noticed that what appears to be the changing formulations of both the paints and the plastics has caused very variable and at times disastorous result. For some time I was successful in using weak solutions of Lye in a Pickle jar (the clear glass was necessary for the close monitoring of Progress) and the rapid removal, rinse and brush down of the shell as soon as the paint appeared to soften. This works reliably ONLY with late to near end of Gilbert car production.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12110	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/11/2001
Subject: CHRIS ZIZZO

Chris Zizzo could you contact me off list...Thank You/....Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12111	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 3/11/2001
Subject: Pick-up shoe performance

Regarding performance: These have been run through Gilbert turnouts (the C+D System has 10 so far) in every direction, over Gilbert, K-Line, and Gargraves track, across sectional gaps in excess of 1/8", over Gilbert re- railers, uncouplers, and the 4-rail operating car section, all without snagging, folding, buckling, or any other problem. We have no 90 degree crossings on our layout, but I have run the loco through one under power in a test situation; again, no problems. The shoe spans the crossing's dead zone with about 3/8" to spare, so the loco can cross at it's minimum speed without stalling. The only anomaly I have encountered with the shoe is a slight tendency to "shriek" a little when passing at low speed over rail with a bit of corrosion on the railhead. The noise disappears after the corrosion is worn away. Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12112	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 3/11/2001
Subject: paint stripping and refinishing 101

Jeff... I've had great results with Easy-Off oven cleaner (yellow label). I tried brake fluid once when attempting to remove the stubborn silver paint fron a 925 Gulf tank end. For some reason, that paint wasn't touched by mineral spirits or anything else I had on hand that I was sure wouldn't harm the plastic. Finally, I resorted to DOT 3 brake fluid, which took the paint off all right, but also began dissolving the plastic. The tank end was rescued in time, but certain details were...uh, compromised. I found the Easy-Off tip in an old TTOS SP Division newsletter. Lye is the active ingredient. You just spray on a heavy coat of the stuff, leave it there for 10-20 minutes, and hose it off with water. (It also may help to scrub crevices and rough areas with an old toothbrush as you wash it off.) Depending on the paint, a second application may be necessary, but Easy-Off is relatively cheap. Also, it's preferable to perform this activity out-of-doors. Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12113	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 3/12/2001
Subject: Pacifc Rail Shops HiRail Conversion

Hey gang. For those that are interested, I've uploaded some picturs for a Pacific Rail Shops HiRail conversion at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/PRSconversion/ Hope this may be of some help to those that want to run these cars on 19" radius track. Be seeing you... Rich G.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12114	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 3/12/2001
Subject: Re: paint stripping and refinishing 101

I had good luck with brake fluid soaking overnight. Some people have reported damage from this method so maybe I was just lucky. It's best to test on a spot inside the body or underneath where it won't show. If no problem with the spot after, say, 12 hours then go ahead. Jeffrey Tangeman wrote: > > I'm sure that this has been covered before but I probably deleted any past > responses. > > I picked up a few common flyer cars at a local stop of the GATS caravan and > have a few others coming and I want to strip off existing paint so I may > repaint and decal. > > it goes without saying that the job is easier with the trucks removed. > > What works best to remove all of the old paint without damaging the > plastic? Brake fluid, Pine Sol. > > Would you soak the car overnight or coat and scrub? > > also any special surface prep? > > Thanks > > Jeff > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12115	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/12/2001
Subject: Re: paint stripping and refinishing 101

Brake Fluid can strip paint, but the plastic is porous, and it seeps into the grains of the plastic and can continue to dissolve it over time. I stripped some cars and tried many different rinses trying to get rid of the smell afterwards. That was a few years ago, and you can still smell the brake fluid when you sniff the body. Not a good sign, IMHO. I've crossed it off as a stripper. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12116	From: Bruce Crosby	Date: 3/12/2001
Subject: Re: paint stripping and refinishing 101

Has anyone tried the more expensive, SCALECOAT paint remover??? Cost is not cheap but it doesn't dissolve the model.......price $8.95/pt. It is reusable and works relatively fast on most paints. Bruce Crosby NMRA#114573 ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>; <eighthmile@...> Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2001 3:15 PM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] paint stripping and refinishing 101 > Brake Fluid can strip paint, but the plastic is porous, and it seeps into > the grains of the plastic and can continue to dissolve it over time. I > stripped some cars and tried many different rinses trying to get rid of the > smell afterwards. That was a few years ago, and you can still smell the > brake fluid when you sniff the body. Not a good sign, IMHO. I've crossed it > off as a stripper. > S' > David D. > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12117	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/12/2001
Subject: Smoke Testers

Alright I have enough testers but am out of bottles right now so....thats the end for now... Thank everyone that has inquired....Mike

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12118	From: Trbngs@cs.com	Date: 3/12/2001
Subject: Smoke fluid....

I saw some "Model Railway Smoke Fluid" by Life-Like yesterday at a discount toy store. I had not seen or heard of this product before. The package stated it was for use with all toy trains and price was 1.98 per bottle. I did not buy any as I do not have any "smokeing" engines on my Sn2 layout so I can not report on its use in AF locomotives. If anyone has used it, let the list know how it worked. Tom Bangs

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12119	From: Scott Holm	Date: 3/12/2001
Subject: Ebay shilling

Ebay has responded to my complaint with, "We do not have enough evidence to show that the members have violated any eBay rules." I think this is completely outrageous. The evidence is overwhelming. Why do you suppose Ebay would condone this by refusing to fully investigate this? What makes me angry is that this guy is apparently going to get away with this and I lose out getting an item I rightly won. Please, if any of you feel you have been affected, contact Ebay and/or the seller. This seller is 1rrman - Richard Myers of Corryton, TN. email address is rmyers8710@... The four shill ids are: smokeyjoe555, coleyounger100, riverrambler, and devilance54 All four shills have feedback from only 1rrman that reference old transactions and all the feedback comments are identical. The shills never bid on any other sellers. In my case the shill won the auction for a 652 green heavyweight. The seller then contacted me and said he had another one and asked if I wanted it. He offered it at the price the shill bid, not the highest bid I made, nor the price that I would have won the auction at. What makes this so pathetic is that in my case it was 3.23 difference. Of course if my maximum had been higher it would have been for more, as was the case with the other auctions I saw. The auction numbers I found where the shills were used were: 1118962198 549026471 553855942 1118946116 1118968367 1118968394 1118946138 1118962194 1118994236 1118962201 1118974135 543707953 553840382 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12120	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 3/12/2001
Subject: Re: Ebay shilling & other eBay troubles

Thankyou for the username information. I will add it to my growing eBay NO BUY LIST! That is the 2nd addition this week. Another eBay seller shipped me impropely packed All Aboard panels, and one of them got broke in half during shipping. To make things worse, the seller charged my $1.10 for insurance, and then did not purchase it!!!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12121	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 3/12/2001
Subject: Re: Paint Stripping 101

Jeff, I've always had great success with plain old granular laundry detergent (I use Tide). 1. Remove the plastic shell from the metal floor, trucks, and couplers. 2. Fill a bucket with enough warm water to cover your shell. 3. Mix in about a cup of granular laundry detergent. You'll have to stir a bunch to dissolve it, as this is a lot of soap. 4. Insert your shell, and let nature take its course. 5. If you want to assist nature, use a very soft toothbrush to GENTLY scrub, especially in those hard-to-reach places. You may have to stir up the solution from time to time, as you'll get a lot of soap concentrate on the bottom of the bucket. 5. Depending on the age of the original paint job, stripping can take as few as 4 hours or as long as a week. 6. When completely stripped, thoroughly rinse in clean water, then rinse again before painting. Other fellows use more powerful strippers, such as brake fluid or (shudder) oven cleaner. However, I prefer detergent because it is gentle, won't leave any residue on the plastic, and is readily available. It's worked well for me every time, even once when I did a sloppy repaint job and had to start all over again. That new paint took about two weeks to soak clean, but the old oxidized original paint usually comes right off. While this method is for plastic, I've even stripped a couple of sheet-metal tenders using it. Be careful on the tenders, though--you'll get a lot of little rust spots all over the sheet metal, which should be thoroughly wire-brushed off (Dremel) just as soon as you can get it out of the water. Hope this helps. YourS, John Eichmann Rocky Mountain Hi-Railers Boise, Idaho >>> Message: 11 Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 19:38:33 -0600 From: Jeffrey Tangeman <jt12313@...> Subject: paint stripping and refinishing 101 I'm sure that this has been covered before but I probably deleted any past responses. I picked up a few common flyer cars at a local stop of the GATS caravan and have a few others coming and I want to strip off existing paint so I may repaint and decal. it goes without saying that the job is easier with the trucks removed. What works best to remove all of the old paint without damaging the plastic? Brake fluid, Pine Sol. Would you soak the car overnight or coat and scrub? also any special surface prep? Thanks Jeff [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12122	From: R2724@AOL.COM	Date: 3/12/2001
Subject: CAN MOTORS

CAN ANYONE TELL ME OF A STRONG,SMOOTH RUNNING CAN MOTOR THAT WILL POWER THE LARGER FLYER STEAM ENGINES (i.e.312 or 322)OR WHARE TO LOOK FOR THEM?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12123	From: Ktrdd@AOL.com	Date: 3/12/2001
Subject: Re: Paint Stripping 101

Hi Gang, This is my experience, Tried that home improvement place- water based stripper---it looks like white cream (I think it's that orange peel stuff). I had some of it left in a container--no label. The paint I wanted to remove was Testors enamel painted on a ACG boxcar door--lots of tiny crevices. Let this stuff set in for few minutes on small area that can be worked; worked off loosened paint piece by piece with my wife's ceramic tool picks--suggest wood toothpicks--then rinse with water; repeat process. looks ok but you can't leave this stuff in place long w/o rinsing it off. Stay away from lettering. This removed the paint but if you leave this stuff on too long, it will soften the plastic. Otherwise it will "scuff" the smooth sheen off the plastic. It won't be good for collectors, but I'm happy to return the piece to it's original color appearance (minus 30 yrs). This really takes patience on a boxcar door. I still have a few spots to work on. From a distance of 3+ feet, it's hard to tell it was ever painted over. I also stripped paint off the catwalk of a red caboose. Both of these cases involved colored ACG plastic, not painted plastic. If you are trying to strip paint off an originally painted ACG surface, this will surely disappoint you unless you have good touch up paint to match the original paint job--and know how to apply it (I don't). This is not a recommendation but simply another example of experimentation. I rate it a "C". I'm not sure where else this stuff would be used. John R

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12124	From: David	Date: 3/12/2001
Subject: Re: Ebay shilling

Scott, that is their typical canned response. I once saw several auctions for American Flyer that had the flaming symbol meaning high bidding activity. On investigating, I found that the items were all pathetic common items, and all offered by the same seller. Gee I said, only this sellers items have reached hot bidding activity, how coincidental. On investigation farther I found that they listed everything under the wifes name by one ISP, then most of the bidding was done by the husband under a different ISP. Only problem was their screen names were their last name and first initial. DUH!!! I gathered all of the data and sent it off to safe harbour, only to receive the same pathetic canned response. The only thing you can do is what you did, warn as many people as you can about that seller.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12125	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: Re: Ebay shilling

I bought a few things from this guy, but the auctions are too old to tell if I got "taken." I did buy two custom painted Burlington CZ passenger cars. These are supposed to be "professionally painted" but looks like spray can stuff, and one of the decals fell off as I took it from the box. This has been the only eBay sale where I think I didn't get full value. But then I expect my painting standards may be a bit "finicky' -- the cars still look fairly good, as long as the decals stay on! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12126	From: John Denholm	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: Can Motors conversions

Hi all ; I recently had 2 Engines converted over to "Can Motors" All I can say is "WoW" the pulling power and the fast and slow speed is incredible They actually run the way a Train is supposed to if you want more info contact Steve at Boss31@... yeah he's the same guy who made those fantastik Videos. The Can motors are really neat because he can supply the conversion Kit or he will install the kit oh yeah as this is the very latest in High Teck motors you will havto have a light hand on the Throttle as the power is humongous I mean real power an example when did you last see a #350 Royal Blue Pull 10 to twelve cars? Imagine what the Big hevys Locos would deliver with ease oh the price very reasonable anyone can live with give him call!youll be glad you did. Thanks John/jde Boss31@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12127	From: Scott Brown	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: Re: Paint Stripping

Maybe I am just missing something, but I usually don't get all that fanatical about stripping all the old paint off cars before I repaint them. On passenger cars (plastic) I just use a Brillo pad and try to get as much as possible off. You never can get all the silver out of the roof crevices. I just make sure I get any areas that are flaking smoothed down to bare plastic. I use a grey primer coat on everything and then just paint. I have been doing this for about 4 years now and have not had any problems. I have painted passenger cars, cabeese, boxcars, and hoppers all without problem. The guys in my Atlantic Coast S Gaugers division can tell you that my passenger sets look great. I tried the brake fluid idea once and it didn't do a thing but give me more to clean up. Tried Tide, but still had to scrub with the Brillo pad. I'm sure there are some scratches (very minor) from using Brillo, but a good primer coat covers that quite nicely. I use Poly Scale paint. Maybe you have to be more careful when using Floquil. Good old elbow grease seems to work best for me in removing paint. Scott Brown Atlantic Coast S Gaugers Washington & Old Dominion Division

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12128	From: busyboy	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: Re: Pacifc Rail Shops HiRail Conversion

Rich: You the man! Excellent job. The pictures were worth a thousand words apiece. I have built PRS kits and not had to do this. I suppose they were hi-rail kits. How does PRS handle the modifications to permit Flyer style trucks? I haven't got a boxcar handy to see. Thanks, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12129	From: Scott Brown	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: Re: TrainWorld

Just a comment about Train World. I have called them several times over the past couple of years and have never had a problem. I don't call the order line with questions. I call the regular #. I always have the numbers from their ad that I am intersted in and state I am checking on availability. I ask. They tell. We both hang up. Simple. No, I'm not a New Yorker. I am a native Californian now transplanted in northern Virginia. Maybe being a paramedic in Washington DC has helped me deal with city people. Who knows. LOL. Scott Brown Atlantic Coast S Gaugers Washington & Old Dominion Division

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12130	From: busyboy	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: Re: Smoke fluid....

Tom Bangs wrote: >I do not have any "smoking" engines on my Sn2 layout so I can not report on its use in AF >locomotives. WOW! You model in Sn2? Talk about minority gauges! What kind of railroading do you model? (logging, coal, general freight and passenger and what locale and setting?) I know some of the venues for 3 foot and 30 inch, but 2 foot railroading is unfamiliar to me. I'm fascinated with the idea of devoting all ones skills to something that must require a great deal of scratchbuilding and kitbashing. Your track gauge is narrower than HO, is it not? Thanks, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12131	From: busyboy	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: Re: Ebay shilling

Scot wrote: >The seller then contacted me and said he had another one and asked if I wanted it. This alone is a violation of eBay rules. Did you tell them about this? Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12132	From: Scott Holm	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: Re: Ebay shilling

Yes, I did and Ebay doesn't care. Apparently their statements about cracking down on shilling and other infractions is just lip service. I'm disgusted beyond belief. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what can be done? --- busyboy <busyboy@...> wrote: > Scot wrote: > >The seller then contacted me and said he had another one and asked > if I > wanted it. > > This alone is a violation of eBay rules. Did you tell them about > this? > > Chris Zizzo > > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12133	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: Re: Ebay shilling

Of course ebay doesn't care. It's in their best interest monetarily to get the highest selling price possible. This same thing happens on other types of ebay auctions. In the metalworking area, one guy did get removed by ebay, but it took a couple years of complaints. This guy also has a bad rep for extremely slow, if ever, delivery. They really didn't do anything about his alternate seller IDs or people listing his items under their names. Now people just alert each other when they find him selling on ebay (or other auctions) under different names. A couple of complaints had been filed with postal and state attorneys general, but nothing has happened. I have a couple of people who sell under AF listings that have some pretty bad practices that I will never buy from again, no matter how good the deal looks. Maybe we should start a list of sellers here to watch out for. Roger Petrella Franktown, CO Scott Holm wrote: > Yes, I did and Ebay doesn't care. Apparently their statements about > cracking down on shilling and other infractions is just lip service. > I'm disgusted beyond belief. Does anyone have any suggestions as to > what can be done? > > --- busyboy <busyboy@...> wrote: > > Scot wrote: > > >The seller then contacted me and said he had another one and asked > > if I > > wanted it. > > > > This alone is a violation of eBay rules. Did you tell them about > > this? > > > > Chris Zizzo > > > > > > > > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12134	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: Re: Ebay shilling

I have my own NO-BUY list. There are 10 eBay IDs on it, but that is out of 100s of transactions I have made. Fortunately, it is the exception, and not the rule! "Roger V. Petrella Jr." wrote: > Maybe we should start a list of sellers here to watch out for. >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12135	From: Trbngs@cs.com	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: Re: Smoke fluid....

--- In S-Trains@y..., busyboy <busyboy@o...> wrote: > WOW! You model in Sn2? Talk about minority gauges! Doesn't everyone? Actualy there are quite of few people interested in Sn2. The Yahoo-groups Sn2 list has 100+ members. > What kind of railroading do you model? (logging, coal, general freight and passenger and what locale and setting?) There is three groups of Sn2 modelers: The majority follow one or more of the Maine two-footers. These were common carrier railroads with a varity of traffic. Several others model the western two- footers which were shay operated mining lines. A few like me model two-foot industrial or plantation lines. My frelaced layout connects a mineral water plant with a std ga connection down the creek and has a branch going up the creek to a bottling plant. (see KCNG folder in the Sn2 list files). > I'm fascinated with the idea of devoting all ones skills to something that must require a great deal of scratchbuilding and kitbashing. Isn't that what the hobby is all about ? > Your track gauge is narrower than HO, is it > not? In S-scale, HO gauge is 42". HOn3(10.3mm) is 26" and N-gauge(9mm) = 22". Useing HOn3 gauge and wheelsets has become the defacto standard for Sn2. Tom Bangs

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12136	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: Re: Pacifc Rail Shops HiRail Conversion

busyboy wrote: > > Rich: > You the man! Excellent job. The pictures were worth a thousand words > apiece. > > I have built PRS kits and not had to do this. I suppose they were hi-rail > kits. How does PRS handle the modifications to permit Flyer style trucks? > I haven't got a boxcar handy to see. > > Thanks, > Chris Zizzo Chris: Thanks. I'm not sure how PRS handled this for hirail kits. I have a couple of PRS kits that were made for the NMRA as hirail versions, and they came with Ace trucks and couplers. Maybe the Ace flange is a little smaller, or the wheel base a little shorter, I'm not sure. I haven't built the NMRA cars yet(they're on my 'round tuit' list) but I sorta made the decision to standardize my hirail PRS roster with SHS trucks and couplers. Be seeing you... Rich G.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12137	From: David	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: Re: Ebay shilling

>Now people just alert each other > when they find him selling on ebay (or other auctions) under different names. > > > Good point Roger. But you can now only do it with people you know, and on forums such as this list. E-bay has tried to put a top to this under the guise of an anti-SPAM idea. You can no longer simply obtain a sellers/bidders e-mail address if they are using an alias. E-Bay has put into place a system that will forward your message to the seller/bidder. IE: You now MUST go thru THEIR e-mail system. They say it is NOT so they can filter content. To that I say .... Yeah Right.... and I have 5 eyes.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12138	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 940

In a message dated 03/13/2001 2:26:43 AM Mountain Standard Time, S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes: > 0000 > From: R2724@... > Subject: CAN MOTORS > > CAN ANYONE TELL ME OF A STRONG,SMOOTH RUNNING CAN MOTOR THAT WILL > POWER THE LARGER FLYER STEAM ENGINES (i.e.312 or 322)OR WHARE TO LOOK > FOR THEM? > > > Yep, check with me.... Steve Blackburn Boise, Idaho [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12139	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: Re: Ebay shilling

My viewpoint on the alias and shades, etc. on ebay is that usually someone is trying to hide something. I just don't bid on those items. This is somewhat related to the stupid method that ebay uses for feedback ratings. I think the ratings thing can provide much info, but some people really abuse it. Some sellers I have seen that get a negative rating immediately retaliate and give the person that sent the comment a negative feedback. I just won't provide feedback, especially to people who sell you something then ask you to give them feedback. If the system prevented this from happening, it would be used more. Roger Petrella Franktown, CO David wrote: > >Now people just alert each other > > when they find him selling on ebay (or other auctions) under > different names. > > > > > Good point Roger. But you can now only do it with people you know, > and on forums such as this list. E-bay has tried to put a top to this > under the guise of an anti-SPAM idea. You can no longer simply obtain > a sellers/bidders e-mail address if they are using an alias. E-Bay > has put into place a system that will forward your message to the > seller/bidder. IE: You now MUST go thru THEIR e-mail system. They say > it is NOT so they can filter content. To that I say .... Yeah > Right.... and I have 5 eyes. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12140	From: Rick Evans	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: S.F. GATS...J.L. 1/64th cars...SHS wooden reefers....

I was a little disapointed with the S.F. GATS as far as there wasn't very much Flyer offered in my opinion, and what I did see didn't interest me and/or the prices seemed high. I did buy some nice "Days Gone" trucks, and a few Arttista figures, and I bought my first SHS item, the TIVOLI BEER wooden reefer. No Flyer impressed me enough to dish out $40 on,..so I thought I'd buy somethin' new and nice looking. There was some Lionel AF at the show,...but I hate to say it, I've seen much better deal on ebay. The pics of SHS items always impressed me, and when ya get one in yours hands, wow, they are great looking!! As I sat on the bed in my motel room, (I'll tell THAT story in a minute!), playing with the goodies I had bought, I pulled out the reefer and studied it, gave the wheels a finger flick,..I thought the wheels whould NEVER stop rolling!! Hats off to Don and Robin for a fine product, and I'm sure I'll be buying more. Although the Lionel AF boxcar for $50+ is pretty tempting! (That's a joke!!) For the Johnny Lighting lovers,...I found at a Target while driving home, a new series...Buffy the Vampire Slayer. I bought a real nice black 4-door Desoto. Not sure of the year, but it looks real close to the '57 Plymouth that Racing Champions puts out. I have not seen this series at MY local Target as of yet. Now for a horror story,...I left S.F. about 5pm after the train show, ready for a nice three hour drive home. I was only on the freeway for a few minutes a heard a weird noise. Drove for awhile, the noise would come and go,..thought I'd better get off the freeway and check it out,...I'll make this short, (too late!)..I barely got into a gas station before the altenater (SP?) froze up!! Bad bearings! They had a 24 hour mechanic, but of course had to wait until morning for the part! I was within walking distance to a motel and got a $77 room!! Picked up my truck about 9:30 in the morning and THAT bill was about $220.00!! Ad that with the $130 plus some change I spent at the GATS,...throw in a couple of meals and a tank of gas,..It was a very expensive weekend!! One plus was that there was a CALTRAIN station there, (passenger service in and out of SF I guess), so I got to hear and see some trains! I also feel pretty lucky that I didn't break down on the freeway, or later on after it got dark, or out in the middle of nowhere! I think I'll stick to ebay for a while!! Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12141	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: Re: Pacifc Rail Shops HiRail Conversion

I bought a PRS reefer from Don Thompson at York. It came with SHS hirail trucks and couplers which mounted without any special effort. Only thing it needed which wasn't in kit was weight. busyboy wrote: > > Rich: > You the man! Excellent job. The pictures were worth a thousand words > apiece. > > I have built PRS kits and not had to do this. I suppose they were hi-rail > kits. How does PRS handle the modifications to permit Flyer style trucks? > I haven't got a boxcar handy to see. > > Thanks, > Chris Zizzo > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12142	From: Rick Evans	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: Re: Ebay feedback

***((((I just won't provide feedback, especially to people who sell you something then ask you to give them feedback.))))*** I don't have a problem with giving feedback. If I am happy with my item, I give them the positive feedback the seller deserves. They are trying to build their numbers, the same as I am, trying to get higher numbers as a buyer/seller. I only give feedback WHEN & AFTER I recieve my item and I am happy with it, which I usually am. I have had sellers request that IF I am indeed happy with the item, please post + feedback. Some just forget to post feedback, I have always taken this as a reminder from the seller. Of course higher numbers doesn't mean the seller/buyer is a saint! Reading the feedback is where you learn about the person. Rick

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12143	From: Rick Evans	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: Alias & shades.....on ebay

"Roger V. Petrella Jr." wrote: **((( My viewpoint on the alias and shades, etc. on ebay is that usually someone is trying to hide something. I just don't bid on those items.)))*** Roger, exactly what do you mean about the alias? And as for the shades,..don't ALL new sellers/buyers have those?? I did,...and I certainly had nothing to hide! Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12144	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: Smoke unit

Help,I need a Franklin smoke unit but dont have a core.Can anyone out there help?Keith _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12145	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: Re: Alias & shades.....on ebay

Rick, I guess when I said usually, I should have written what I was thinking. A lot of people trying to hide negative feedback will change their IDs and these show up with shades. According to ebay, the feedback ratings follow them with the ID change, but if you are looking for certain IDs known to be "bad", you will miss them. I wasn't talking about new people, but you can easily detect them by the low numbers. Roger Petrella Franktown, CO Rick Evans wrote: > "Roger V. Petrella Jr." wrote: > **((( My viewpoint on the alias and shades, etc. on ebay is that > usually someone is trying to hide something. I just don't bid on > those items.)))*** > > Roger, exactly what do you mean about the alias? And as for the > shades,..don't ALL new sellers/buyers have those?? I did,...and I > certainly had nothing to hide! > > Rick. > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12146	From: Al	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: Pine Sol

Jeff, Don't use Pine Sol. I did this last December on an old Santa Fe B-Unit and it took all the paint off and then in a few seconds started to pit the plastic really fast. I could not get the unit under fresh water fast enough.Now I have a B-unit with around a hundred little pits that was in really great condition before I did this. Whata mistaka to maka. Al Rawdon

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12147	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: PRS CONVERSION

Hi Rick, Thanks for the great shots of the PRS Hirail conversion. I finished mine over the weekend but may leave it in as Scale to use as an example of the differences between Scale & Hirail when explaining the options to a friend. Since this was my first S scale car kit there are some rough finishes but I am learning as I move forward on detailing my "Belfry Station" layout. Staying on the NPSG branchline of NASG track, Glenn

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12148	From: Gary Chidester	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: E-bay

This is just my two-cents, but I for one would really appreciate a list of names that have provided bad experiences on e-bay. It might've solved a problem I had with a seller that sold a 312 in much worse shape than advertised, offered a return, then cancelled, offered a rebate and then cancelled that too! I now can't get him to return e-mail. He is a Lionel collector and I haven't seen him back with another Am. Flyer item, but I would hate for someone else to have the same experience I did. One of the problems I see is that once a seller/buyer gets their rating up high enough who wants to sift through all of their ratings to see what their bad ones are? A higher rating only allows for a higher margin of rip-offs. A list of our own would at least warn of potential problems. If we still wanted to buy from someone on the list at least we would know to ask plenty of questions and then it would be "buyer beware." gary

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12149	From: Paul Krucik	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: Repair of track contact sliders

I have several engines that the track sliders on the truck frames have lost their tension. Not sure if the springs inside have become compressed or broke or what. I've looked at them from ten different directions and don't see how they can be removed from the truck frame for repair without breaking something. Has anyone found something I'm missing? Is there a way to successfully remove and replace them? Hoping someone has a solution. Thanks in advance Paul K

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12150	From: Trbngs@cs.com	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: Paint removal...

I've had very good results using a product called "Strip-A-Kit" which I got from one of the local hobby shops. It's easy to use and the only paint I had trouple removing was some very old (20-25 years) Foquil that had been baked on tin. That one took three applications, some vigerious scurbing with an old toothbrush, and using a soft wire brush in a low-speed motor tool to get the paint out of some of the crevases. This product is a soft gel and washes clean with warm water and liquid dishwashing soap folloed by a futher warm water rinse. I've used it on brass, plastic, and various old zamaic castings. One bottle has stripped numerious items over the 18 months since I bought it and still have about half the bottle left. I belive I paid around $5 for the bottle. My impression is that it is easier too use and less damaging then any of the other methods I've tried. Tom Bangs

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12151	From: Robert Wight	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: E-bay feedback

I think it is good to share some ideas and experiences about e-bay. I for one have learned alot the hard way. I have found myself that the feedback doesnt work. So i dont realy pay to much attention to it. I have found that if it is a good seller he will leave you good feedback before you even receive the item. This has been a sign to me i'm dealing with a good person. the others wait for you to leave feedback and if it is positive they will leave you feedback, sometimes. Sometimes they just dont reciporcate. If you leave them bad feedback they will leave you bad feedback as retaliation. I will not leave any feedback any more untill they have left me feedback. After all my end of the bargain is complete. I should get a response first. So my point is i know that i have left no feedback on a bad seller because of the retalliation they do. It certainly is a buyer beware market by all means. I just recently was screwed good but the guy has alot of great feedback with no negatives. On the other hand I have had some great experiences allso. It's just a crap shoot. Happy Railroading Bob Wight __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12152	From: Gary Chidester	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: Re: E-bay

Great idea! It's as much if not more valuable to know who you can trust! g on 3/13/01 5:31 PM, Daniel Neumayer at Daniel@... wrote: > If we're going to list the troublesome people, how about also listing > the ones who provide good experiences, ones we trust. > > Daniel >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12153	From: Peck	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: Re: EBAY feedback

<<. A lot of people trying to hide negative feedback will change their IDs and these show up with shades. According to ebay, the feedback ratings follow them with the ID >> Keep in mind that we may change our ID for OTHER reasons too, resulting in shades apearing for a month. In my case, I recently changed mine in order to hide my email address from the public postings. . Results in too much SPAM! Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12154	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: Re: Repair of track contact sliders

Paul: there is a spring inside each pickup shoe box that sometimes needs changing. With the shoe fully extended, reach into the box with a forceps or hemostat and grab the old spring. Yank it out. Take a steam loco coil type brush spring and insert it part way into the opening. Twist it counterclockwise, and it will screw itself most of the way into position. Then grab the end of the new spring in your forceps and push it all of the way inside the box. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12155	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: Re: Pine Sol

Similar disaster on a repainted car. Considering it a total loss I decided to try general alternatives. My best success was with auto-body red finish putty. This is usually used as the final coat on body-filler prior to priming and painting. tested a few brands on the interior of teh shells. The house brands at K-Mart, Sears and the Dupont worked fine THEN (some years ago). they filled the pits nicely, compounded down well and were the right color at that point for several cars. Recal decaling and oversraying as only added finish. Good luck, Dennis P>S> TEST ON THE INTERIOR first. Formulas change from year to year.,

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12156	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: Re: Pine Sol

Hi All, Most Auto body finishing putty (especailly the red stuff) is basically thick Lacquer primer/filler. New stuff can be acrylic. There is also a two-part catalyized finishing putty nowadays. I've used some green stuff they sell at hobby shops, for the little bit you need to do a model body, the other stuff is way overkill! Let it cure well before sanding! And don't build it up too fast, it does shrink. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12157	From: Neil Trump	Date: 3/13/2001
Subject: Re: Repair of track contact sliders

Paul, Don't use a loco brush spring. They are smaller in diameter than the original spring and have a tendency to work there way out again. You can get repros the correct size and length. Neil T. -----Original Message----- From: jarcho@... <jarcho@...> To: S-trains@yahoogroups.com <S-trains@yahoogroups.com> Date: 13 March 2001 17:21 Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Repair of track contact sliders >Paul: there is a spring inside each pickup shoe box that sometimes needs >changing. With the shoe fully extended, reach into the box with a forceps >or hemostat and grab the old spring. Yank it out. Take a steam loco coil >type brush spring and insert it part way into the opening. Twist it >counterclockwise, and it will screw itself most of the way into position. >Then grab the end of the new spring in your forceps and push it all of the >way inside the box. > >Tom Jarcho > > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12158	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 3/14/2001
Subject: Re: Repair of track contact sliders

Paul, I agree with Neil. Loco brush springs are too long and narrow. There is a special spring for this application that works quite nicely. BTW, if you ever want to remove the shoe, it is kept in by a tab that slides in a channel in the shoe holder. To remove it, simply squeeze the shoe (to reduce its width at the top) and pull it out. Joe >Paul: there is a spring inside each pickup shoe box that sometimes needs >changing. With the shoe fully extended, reach into the box with a forceps >or hemostat and grab the old spring. Yank it out. Take a steam loco coil >type brush spring and insert it part way into the opening. Twist it >counterclockwise, and it will screw itself most of the way into position. >Then grab the end of the new spring in your forceps and push it all of the >way inside the box. > >Tom Jarcho ===== Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,100 part lines American Models ########################## S-Helper Service Official Licensed Dealer for Gilbert Reproductions joestrainrepair@... Master Charge/Visa __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12159	From: LEAHY RUTH A	Date: 3/14/2001
Subject: Metal signs

I recently acquired 2 tootsietoy metal signs with some All Aboard panels. They are painted orange with black letters (slow/traffic light ahead). They appear to be about the right size for A.F. Anyone know anything about these & maybe how many other signs they made? Would like to acquire some more of these. Ideas? Mike Leahy

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12160	From: Douglass Allen	Date: 3/14/2001
Subject: e-bay

I am more than a little bewildered by all the talk of e-bay. What to do about these problems? etc. Answer: Unless you're bedridden, don't use them. What have they got that train shows don't? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12161	From: afstrains@aol.com	Date: 3/14/2001
Subject: Re: New List

Hi gang, We posted a new list on our web site for those who may be interested. <A HREF="www.AFSTrains.com">AFSTrains.com</A>. Getting ready for York, hope to see some of you there. John and Robin Vanacore

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12162	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 3/14/2001
Subject: pick-up shoe coil springs

Regular size, or full-length coil springs (used in flat comm steamers like 326, 336, 303, etc.) work pretty well, but not as well as their slightly shorter counterpart coil spring used in barrel-comm motors (21088, 21004, 21130, etc.). The longer springs tend to exert more pressure than is really needed, and sometimes pop out the sides of the shoes. The shorter springs provide full extension but a softer pressure (less drag), and stay in the shoe better. A full-size spring cut short doesn't work quite as well because you don't get the flat finished-end of an authentic short-spring making them tend to tilt in the box. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12163	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 3/14/2001
Subject: removing white "mildew"

What's the best way to remove that white mildew-like stuff on old Flyer plastic? I heard that if you warm it up with a hair dryer you can wipe it away. Apparently it has a low melting point. Sound familiar? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12164	From: donabrams	Date: 3/14/2001
Subject: Contact Sliders

Pull out the old spring with tweezers from the opening between the shoe and the box. You're going to put in a new one anyway so you don't need to be gentle. The new spring goes in by slipping in one end and twisting/winding it into the box. When you get to the last turn of the spring use the tweezers to grasp, compress, and push it the rest of the way in. I think the P/N for this spring is different from the ones used on the steamer brushes, but I use them anyway and just cut a few turns off with side cutting pliers. Hope this helps, Don

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12165	From: donabrams	Date: 3/14/2001
Subject: Paint Removal

Aren't we overlooking the obvious here? Two words. Bench Grinder :-)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12166	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/14/2001
Subject: Re: e-bay

Well, when you live in a place like I do, there ain't much choice! There are about four train shows each year within a reasonable distance (within a two hour one-way drive) that I can attend, except I WORK Saturdays, so it is even more difficult to attend. Add to that that the amount of flyer is very limited, except at two of the shows. I just bought a neat operating baggage car, but the P.O. dropped the box, and broke one end of the body, snapped the KC coupler conversion into four pieces (sheared the weight off the j bar!) and popped the nearby wheelset out of the truck. It was sent priority mail, anyone have any luck with collecting ANYTHING from the Post Office? S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12167	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 3/14/2001
Subject: name of Wal-Mart metal bluing product?

What was the name of that product at Wal-Mart someone posted earlier they found worked pretty well? And in which department should I look, sporting goods? Thanks. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12168	From: Bill Porter	Date: 3/14/2001
Subject: Re: e-bay and the Post Offfice

Hi David and colleagues, Yes, I have had good luck with the Post Office - provided the shipment was insured by them. I have been on both sides of the deal - shipper and receiver - and they have been OK to deal with. There is some paperwork to fill out and there is a need to establish the value of the item. If you bought it on eBay, the auction ad with the final amount is sufficient. The guy who shipped the goods needs to start the paperwork. After you work through the bureaucracy, the USPS is pretty effective. Later, Bill Porter -----Original Message----- From: David Dewey <djdewey@...> To: S Trains <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>; Douglass Allen <douglass.allen@...> Date: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 11:15 AM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] e-bay >Well, when you live in a place like I do, there ain't much choice! There are >about four train shows each year within a reasonable distance (within a two >hour one-way drive) that I can attend, except I WORK Saturdays, so it is >even more difficult to attend. Add to that that the amount of flyer is very >limited, except at two of the shows. > I just bought a neat operating baggage car, but the P.O. dropped the >box, and broke one end of the body, snapped the KC coupler conversion into >four pieces (sheared the weight off the j bar!) and popped the nearby >wheelset out of the truck. It was sent priority mail, anyone have any luck >with collecting ANYTHING from the Post Office? >S' >David D. >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12169	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 3/14/2001
Subject: shoe springs

I have replaced the springs in over two dozen pickup shoes on my trains, with steam loco brush springs, and then operated these trains exctensively. There has never been a problem with a spring escaping. Never. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12170	From: Neil Trump	Date: 3/14/2001
Subject: Re: shoe springs

Tom, all I can say is that I have experienced this problem on a number of occasions when I tried to use a steam brush spring. Besides, why use an incorrect part when an repro part is available designed to do the job. I'm sure if Gilbert could have got away with a brush spring they would have used it. Neil T. -----Original Message----- From: jarcho@... <jarcho@...> To: S-trains@yahoogroups.com <S-trains@yahoogroups.com> Date: 14 March 2001 10:18 Subject: [S-Trains] shoe springs >I have replaced the springs in over two dozen pickup shoes on my trains, >with steam loco brush springs, and then operated these trains exctensively. >There has never been a problem with a spring escaping. Never. > >Tom Jarcho > > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12171	From: Douglass Allen	Date: 3/14/2001
Subject: e-bay

Several people rapidly took me to task for saying, in essence, drop e-bay altogether. These people live in areas where access to shows is limited. So conceded; but what about the apparently forgotten third alternative? Mail Order. Get ahold of Marty Cohen. I've purchased many items from him and never been dissappointed. He's accessible on line too now. No hassles, no auctions, no shilling, no problems, just fair dealing, and well packed shipments with no damage. And he is just one of many mail order dealers still giving reliable service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12172	From: Douglass Allen	Date: 3/14/2001
Subject: Steamtown NASG Convention 2001

Are there any officers of the NASG reading this? I have been thru the Steamtown website forward and back and it seems to cover everything except the most basic facts. IE: During what days and hours is the trade show? Will there be clinics? On what subjects? What manufacturers might be there? R.S.V.P. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12173	From: Rick Evans	Date: 3/14/2001
Subject: Re: e-bay

"Douglass Allen" wrote: **(((I am more than a little bewildered by all the talk of e-bay. What to do about these problems? etc. Answer: Unless you're bedridden, don't use them. What have they got that train shows don't?**))) For me any way, Ebay DOESN'T have..... #1--3-4 hour drives one way to a decent show #2--$35-$45 for gas #3--$6 for the show #4--$5 for parking #5--$$$ for meals #6--Getting to a show and finding NO flyer #7--un-expected truck break downs resulting in.... #8--un-expected motel costs I could probably come up with a few more. I love a good train show, but after my last escapade,...I think I'll stick to ebay for a while!! Rick($77 for a sleazy motel room ??!??) Evans

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12174	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/14/2001
Subject: Re: e-bay

Hey Rick, I paid $85 for a Motel 6 dump in San Jose, and the book claimed, "Public Transit" with an image of a streetcar. Well, nearest light rail station was 2 miles away! Clerk gave me a blank stare when I asked about transportation. Had to drive to the convention, and the signage was terrible! Took me a half-hour to find the convention center, everyone kept giving me directions to the sports center! I hope I never have to drive in San Jose again! (and we won't go into the parking fees, etc. this time, the vendors had to suffer enough to ransom their stuff in and out of the center). S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12175	From: louis glumac	Date: 3/14/2001
Subject: Re: removing white "mildew"

that does work well,,,,,,,,,and if you soak the plastic overnight in baking soda water it will look new,,,,, ----- Original Message ----- From: <david_horn@...> To: <s-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 9:49 AM Subject: [S-Trains] removing white "mildew" > What's the best way to remove that white mildew-like stuff on old Flyer > plastic? I heard that if you warm it up with a hair dryer you can wipe it > away. Apparently it has a low melting point. Sound familiar? > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12176	From: Gourlie, Peter	Date: 3/14/2001
Subject: removes mildew, but decals?

Will soaking the plastic overnight in baking soda water remove or damage the decals in any way? -----Original Message----- From: louis glumac [mailto:lglumac@...] Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 6:23 PM To: s-Trains@yahoogroups.com; david_horn@... Subject: Re: [S-Trains] removing white "mildew" that does work well,,,,,,,,,and if you soak the plastic overnight in baking soda water it will look new,,,,, ----- Original Message ----- From: <david_horn@...> To: <s-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 9:49 AM Subject: [S-Trains] removing white "mildew" > What's the best way to remove that white mildew-like stuff on old Flyer > plastic? I heard that if you warm it up with a hair dryer you can wipe it > away. Apparently it has a low melting point. Sound familiar? > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12177	From: g-wolfgang1@juno.com	Date: 3/14/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 939

Please unsubscribe this E-mail address ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12178	From: David	Date: 3/14/2001
Subject: Re: removing white "mildew"

Dave, the white residue is actually mold release that was used by Gilbert to make sure the parts popped out of the mold after molding. Its very easy to clean off. If the part is off the piece, just heat with a hair dryer on low while moving the part around. If its on the piece, as in a link coupler thats not easily removed, place a rag between it and the car body and other parts. Heat with the hair dryer on low moving the hair dryer around to get all areas of the part. Once the residue turns back into its oily liquid form, give the part a shot of WD-40 to wash the oil away, then wipe clean with a clean cotton cloth. I then usually buff off with an old clean paint brush.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12179	From: Eugene Steffan	Date: 3/14/2001
Subject: All-Aboard Set

HI: I just aquired an All-Aboard Set, I have not been able to find any significant info on this set in Greenburg. First Question: What is the yellow wire running between the first and last rivet securing the track tie to each section? It seems isolated electrically from the rails and I can not figure out what it's purpose is. Second Question: Are their any pictures, instructions or list of accessories that are available for this set? I got a fair amount of parts with this set, but I don't know what it is supposed to include, or what could be purchased as accessories beyond the initial set. All help would be appreciated. Gene

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12180	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 3/14/2001
Subject: 302 vs 302AC

Can someone tell me the difference between a 302 and a 302AC 4-4-2 steamer? I have noticed the AC on a couple of other locomotives as well. Is there a significance? Thanks Tom _---_---_---______--__--___+-----+||] [||####### B & O #####|______||_____ || pjpennington@... __| [][] |__ || ||_______________________/ _| B&O |___\_|| | ||| | | | | | | / | 4212 | # ||| | []|=|==================o=====o==================|=|[] /|-||(0)|=|(0)|=|(O) |_________| (0)|=|(0)|=|(O)||-|\ ======================================================== [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12181	From: Steve Jones	Date: 3/14/2001
Subject: Re: fall s-fest

The 26th annual Fall S-Fest will be Nov 16-18, 2001 At the Holiday Inn, South Beloit, IL. For more information contact: Dave Pippitt 1608 Benton Street Rockford, IL 61107 (815) 963 8773 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clay Buckage" <cbuckage@...> To: "S-Trains" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 9:05 AM Subject: [S-Trains] fall s-fest > > Does anyone have the dates for the > Fall S-Fest 2001? > > thnx > Clay > > > "Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men???" > "The Shadow Knows!" > > Clay Buckage > Dave's Twacks & Twains > Box 388 > Tatamy, Pa. 18085 > clay@... > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12182	From: howard sheffield	Date: 3/14/2001
Subject: Re: e-bay

David is right about the lack of shows in the northern California valley areas. I have also learned that I have to get there early if I want to beat him to a deal. You can always tell the Flyer guys at the shows. They are the ones wearing track shoes waiting for the starting gun to go off at the opening of the gates. I didn't realize how serious this was untill I was a little slow at the first show and ended up trampled with shoe prints all over my back. Howard S Roseville >Well, when you live in a place like I do, there ain't much choice! There are >about four train shows each year within a reasonable distance (within a two >hour one-way drive) _______________________________________________________________________ Free Domain Name Registration with Web Hosting at Lanset Communications. 56k Dialup, DSL, and Colocation at http://www.lanset.net

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12183	From: The Reis's	Date: 3/14/2001
Subject: Re: e-bay

I have everything I buy sent to my post office box through the USPS (because I don't want things left alone on my porch during the day. I have also sold a number of items (to people on this list) and sent them through the USPS without ever having anything broken or lost. I usually over wrap as I can get used bubble wrap and foam chips at work to use. Anyway it is about half the UPS price to send something and no problems yet. Maybe its just my small Post Office, a branch office 12 miles from downtown Seattle (or I have had the P.O. Box for 15 years and they know me) but these guys are always friendly and more than willing to find the cheapest combination of ways to send stuff. Just my experience. On the Shows, we only have 3 or 4 a year also in Seattle and a couple more in Portland (170 miles) that have any S stuff at all. eric reis Kenmore, in the Dry, Parched state of Washington. -----Original Message----- From: David Dewey [mailto:djdewey@...] Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 7:35 AM To: S Trains; Douglass Allen Subject: Re: [S-Trains] e-bay Well, when you live in a place like I do, there ain't much choice! There are about four train shows each year within a reasonable distance (within a two hour one-way drive) that I can attend, except I WORK Saturdays, so it is even more difficult to attend. Add to that that the amount of flyer is very limited, except at two of the shows. I just bought a neat operating baggage car, but the P.O. dropped the box, and broke one end of the body, snapped the KC coupler conversion into four pieces (sheared the weight off the j bar!) and popped the nearby wheelset out of the truck. It was sent priority mail, anyone have any luck with collecting ANYTHING from the Post Office? S' David D. S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12184	From: belairchevy@webtv.net	Date: 3/14/2001
Subject: Re: All Aboard

The yellow wire conducts power for the switch machines on the switches and whistle motor on the whistle panel. Physical and electrical conection is made between panels by the spring metal clips at the end of each panel. I have an All Aboard website at : http://www.geocities.com/belairchevy/ab/home.html Complete set contents and track diagrams and an All Aboard TV commercial are included. There is also a section on the 007 Scenic Panel Road Race Sets. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12185	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/14/2001
Subject: Re: e-bay

Don't let Howard fool ya, he got all the deals at the last show. Of course, my having to be at work for a few hours before I could go might have had something to do with that! One thing I do like about train shows is that, so far, they start at a reasonable time, not the Dark-30 start with flashlights that old car swap meets are famous for. You show up in the dark, and there's always a bunch of groupies with flashlights trying to see what's in your truck before you even get in the gate! I've always wanted to find some rust, pour it in a coffee can, and label it; "RARE! '23 Pierce Arrow left cowl light, with reflector" just to see if anyone would bite! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12186	From: Ted R Larson	Date: 3/15/2001
Subject: my groups

http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups This is the Yahoo page to go to so that you can easily change your mail between individual messages, Digest version, and NO messages (such as when you want to stop messages while on vacation). ===== Ted Larson ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12187	From: John Denholm	Date: 3/15/2001
Subject: E-Bay

Hi All; I notice we all seem to be on the same wave concerning e-bay the needfull evil ogre I might have a solution why don't we as a A-F Sguage Members just have our own sales Group ,Auction, classified ads, where as a Member we could Buy, and Sell, Trade, Auction, now you got it! if we keep it simple Im sure it would work! I know we have 5 top of the line dedicated people who could set-up such a program and I for one would gladley pay the people 10.00 to setup and run such a program as we are close to 600 mems strong surely we could afford a 10.00 sign-up and 12.00 annual fee all we would require is Paul to setup a seperate Web-site for our Transactions, prepay,SGuage Auctions and Sales Please Keep this in mind the satisfaction of peace of mind is worth every penny it would cost as I have noticed our members are not the bad guys but outsiders trying to run a bad Deal and I personally am really tired of their Bad Deals so much so I now visit e-bay for interst in our Hobby only as I now too have quit buying through e-bay I prefer to buy when I can from our members. That's why I will recommend our members whenever I can for their services and Square Dealing Thanks for the listen please consider thi proposal as it could be a lifesaver for our Hobby Thanks John e-bay buyers name <jde>

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12188	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 3/15/2001
Subject: Re: 302 vs 302AC

The AC notation was used early on to distinguish from the DC powered versions that were also available and carried a DC suffix. Someome who is a better historian than me they can yell you the year or few years this numbering system was in place. Tom Pennington wrote: > > Can someone tell me the difference between a 302 and a 302AC 4-4-2 > steamer? I have noticed the AC on > a couple of other locomotives as well. Is there a significance? Thanks > Tom > > _---_---_---______--__--___+-----+||] > [||####### B & O #####|______||_____ > || pjpennington@... __| [][] |__ || > ||_______________________/ _| B&O |___\_|| > | ||| | | | | | | / | 4212 | # ||| | > []|=|==================o=====o==================|=|[] > /|-||(0)|=|(0)|=|(O) |_________| (0)|=|(0)|=|(O)||-|\ > ======================================================== > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12189	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 3/15/2001
Subject: Re: E-Bay

John I work In Procurement/Contracting arm of NYCTA; My experience in NY is that we will end up with VERY Costly Liability and UniformCommercial Code requirements. Before any serious discussion of setting up such a group, we very much need legal advice on all the hidden regulations, pitfalls, taxes, liability. If there is a Knowledgeable Attorney in the Group, please contact John and discuss this. To all others, please wait for authoritative information. I do not think we should hurry into this or even entertain it until some legal t's are crossed. Sorry Dennis Troini.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12190	From: J. Paul Hartman	Date: 3/15/2001
Subject: Re: e-bay

Also check the S-trains list sponsor: www.americanflyertrains.com On Wed, 14 Mar 2001, Douglass Allen wrote: > Several people rapidly took me to task for saying, in essence, drop e-bay altogether. These people live in areas where access to shows is limited. So conceded; but what about the apparently forgotten third alternative? Mail Order. Get ahold of Marty Cohen. I've purchased many items from him and never been dissappointed. He's accessible on line too now. No hassles, no auctions, no shilling, no problems, just fair dealing, and well packed shipments with no damage. And he is just one of many mail order dealers still giving reliable service. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12191	From: Douglass Allen	Date: 3/15/2001
Subject: e-bay VS mail order

More than one person asked me about Marty Cohen. Goes to show that one cannot assume that others know all the sources that one person may happen to. This is a general comment to all those who believe they have no alternative to e-bay. Look up these sites: www.martystrains.com www.americanflyertrains.com The second one you have to trip over every time you open an s-trains digest for heaven's sake. I invite and entreat everyone to point out others which I have not mentioned. They DON'T have to be on net. I acquired many of my trains by mail order before I ever acquired my first computer. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12192	From: Trbngs@cs.com	Date: 3/15/2001
Subject: E-Bay alteratives.....

Here's two more alteratives for avoiding E-Bay: 1. There is an existing E-group/Yahoo group for selling or trading railroad and model train items. This is the Backshop group. Messages are posted discribing the item and pictures (JPG format) can be posted to the file section. I haven't seen much S-scale items offered so far but I have only been on that list for a short time. Be sure to read the groups rules. 2. Other Yahoo train groups that I am in allow messages offering items for sale and have a file folder for these with the understanding that items will be limited to those directly related to the group's topic. In both cases, the seller provides an off-list e-mail for responses and all dealing is done directly between the seller and the buyer. Tom Bangs

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12193	From: Scott Holm	Date: 3/15/2001
Subject: Re: Train City

Train City has online ordering and several American Flyer items. http://www.traincity.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12194	From: Douglass Allen	Date: 3/15/2001
Subject: mail order

Here's another one just announced: www.AFSTrains.com He's even got pictures, if that's what trips your trigger. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12195	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 3/15/2001
Subject: Wanted to Purchase: ALL ABOARD PANELS

> If anyone has any All Aboard Panels they would like to sell, please email me your price. I am especially interested in purchasing 2 straight panels, but would consider purchasing a set of them if the price was reasonable. Thanks, Chuck Harrington

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12196	From: Douglass Allen	Date: 3/15/2001
Subject: mail order

Here's another great source: Ron Durst 1112 W. University Ave. Urbana, IL, 61801 217-367-3600 A great guy to deal with. He has lots of stuff, and if he doesn't have what you're seeking, he'll make a point of finding it for you! And no he's not on net. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12197	From: Alex	Date: 3/15/2001
Subject: Re: e-bay VS mail order

I've used Marty as a source, and all I can add is that he is everything claimed. He seems honest, he shipped quickly, and he packaged the trains properly so they wouldn't be damaged in transit. Moreover, he seemed genuinely *interested* in what I was doing. He gets my vote. -- Alex in Kennebunk, Maine -----Original Message----- From: Douglass Allen [mailto:douglass.allen@...] Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 11:48 AM To: S Trains Subject: [S-Trains] e-bay VS mail order More than one person asked me about Marty Cohen. Goes to show that one cannot assume that others know all the sources that one person may happen to. This is a general comment to all those who believe they have no alternative to e-bay. Look up these sites: www.martystrains.com www.americanflyertrains.com The second one you have to trip over every time you open an s-trains digest for heaven's sake. I invite and entreat everyone to point out others which I have not mentioned. They DON'T have to be on net. I acquired many of my trains by mail order before I ever acquired my first computer. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12198	From: Roy Inman	Date: 3/15/2001
Subject: train shows

But the big deal in going to train shows is that I can handle the merchandise, or at least look at it up close and personal. Plus, on an e-bay auction, the price moves only one direction: up. At a train show, downward negotiation is possible. Roy Inman

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12199	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 3/15/2001
Subject: White stuff on couplers, wheels, etc.

In an article in S-Gaugian in the mid 1990's, the author, who was a chemist at one of the rubber companies, identified the white stuff that appears on black Flyer parts such as link couplers, wheels, and car floors as an organic acid used as a cheap filler in plastics. This material is soluble in alcohols. I take a used toothbrush, wet it with rubbing alcohol from the drugstore, and brush off the white stuff. It dissolves and comes off easily. Occasionally on couiplers there is a layer of a more dense waxy material which I scape off with a moderately hard object such as a piece of wood or plastic. I've also found that the grey buildup (of oil and dirt?) on the running face of plastic wheels comes off with a moderate rubbing using mineral spirits on a Q-tip. After the above cleanings, a final wash in soapy water and cruddy wheels can look like new. Roger Delthony

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12200	From: John Foley	Date: 3/15/2001
Subject: Re: Steamtown NASG 2001 Convention

Hi Douglass The Schedule is still in the works. But I can tell you that we plan on opening the Trade room Wednesday the 25th as early as we can, Maybe by 1pm until 10pm. Thursday and Friday will be from 9 or 10am to 10pm. their will be a diner break between 5pm-7pm on Thursday. Friday We will close the trade at 1pm to 4pm for the train ride then open again to about 10pm. Yes clinics and they will be on modeling, Prototype railroading, Photography and more. As far as manufactures all the usual ones will be there, AM, SHS, River Raisin, Southwind, PHM, BTS, and many more. We have room for well over a hundred tables. Steamtown and the trolley museum [ included with registration fee] will be available to conventioneers from 9to 5pm everyday we are there. You will be allowed to go back and forth as many times as you like. We are still waiting for Steamtown to come up with a schedule for their guided tours. Our train ride will leave the Radisson Hotel at 2pm Friday Of course we will have the contests both Modeling and Photos. What Hotel you pick their will be no problem getting you folks around. Douglass and folks please feel free to ask any more questions you may have. Okay to do it on this digest as it may answer others questions. In the next Dispatch and soon at the website we should have more answers. John Foley Message: 15 Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 14:55:47 -0800 From: "Douglass Allen" <douglass.allen@...> Subject: Steamtown NASG Convention 2001 Are there any officers of the NASG reading this? I have been thru the Steamtown website forward and back and it seems to cover everything except the most basic facts. IE: During what days and hours is the trade show? Will there be clinics? On what subjects? What manufacturers might be there? R.S.V.P. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12201	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 3/15/2001
Subject: Re: Steamtown NASG 2001 Convention

Dear John, Please don't Denver the dealers. The dealer rooms were open too long. Most of the time we had no one but other dealers to talk to while EVERYONE ELSE was on interesting tours. I gave up my tickets for the tour to Cheyenne to sit in a nearly empty dealer room. Then when everyone came back from tours for dinner, the dealer room was closed. Finally, we just said screw this and left between 10 and 3 on Saturday when the room was open just to see the sights. Remember, most if not all of the dealers are (or were) model railroaders. Please do not deny them the enjoyment of the convention by having the dealer room open every possible minute while the interesting tours are running. Any other dealers from the Denver NASG Convention care to comment? It always has amazed me that the same mistakes are made every other year by the NASG convention as there is NO CONVENTION MANUAL to help guide the local clubs. Don T. PS DO NOT USE SCHOOL BUSES (this could be the chapter name for tours). John Foley wrote: > Hi Douglass > The Schedule is still in the works. But I can tell you > that we plan on opening the Trade room Wednesday the 25th > as early as we can, Maybe by 1pm until 10pm. Thursday and Friday > will be from 9 or 10am to 10pm. their will be a diner break between > 5pm-7pm on Thursday. Friday We will close the trade at 1pm to 4pm > for the train ride then open again to about 10pm. > Yes clinics and they will be on modeling, Prototype railroading, Photography > and more. As far as manufactures all the usual ones will be there, AM, SHS, > River Raisin, Southwind, PHM, BTS, and many more. We have room for well > over a hundred tables. > Steamtown and the trolley museum [ included with registration fee] will be > available to conventioneers from 9to 5pm everyday we are there. You will > be allowed to go back and forth as many times as you like. We are still > waiting for Steamtown to come up with a schedule for their guided tours. > Our train ride will leave the Radisson Hotel at 2pm Friday > Of course we will have the contests both Modeling and Photos. > What Hotel you pick their will be no problem getting you folks around. > > Douglass and folks please feel free to ask any more questions you may have. > Okay to do it on this digest as it may answer others questions. > In the next Dispatch and soon at the website we should have more answers. > John Foley > > Message: 15 > Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 14:55:47 -0800 > From: "Douglass Allen" <douglass.allen@...> > Subject: Steamtown NASG Convention 2001 > Are there any officers of the NASG reading this? > I have been thru the Steamtown website forward and back and it seems to > cover everything except the most basic facts. > IE: During what days and hours is the trade show? > Will there be clinics? On what subjects? > What manufacturers might be there? > R.S.V.P. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New 2nd run reefers are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12202	From: David	Date: 3/15/2001
Subject: Re: E-Bay

I've been to and have been familiar with the many sites listed as alternatives to e-bay, and many others. ALL have big negatives to me in my opinion. The e-bay perils are obvious.... misgradings, misrepresentations, idiotic reserves or starting prices, and many more. As for these other vendors I've known, its the same problems. Almost all have rediculous prices for the grade of the item. Some have good selections with nice stuff, another has decent selections but its all problem ridden and junky, and anothers selection is poor at best. One has astronomical shipping charges, another allows no returns. Its a tough situation when you have no local shows, they are your best bet. I gave up on buying via e-bay for the most part years ago when all of the misrepresentations and crazy prices started. Today I do not bid unless I have detailed clear pictures of all sides of the item, and a detailed description, and its something I just have not been able to find. Then I put my number on it, and if I win, I win, if not then someone paid too much. For big dollar items, its shows all the way. I want to touch, feel and personally inspect the item, and not have to deal with an internet full of others who want to interrupt my shopping experience and deal making. So in short there is no really "good" way to go, there are problems with every venue.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12203	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 3/15/2001
Subject: 3/16 Reminder....

Just a friendly reminder about tomorrow, guys. It's (unofficially) 3/16-NATIONAL S SCALE (or GAUGE, depending on your religion) DAY! Be seeing you... Rich G.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12204	From: deisaacs@yahoo.com	Date: 3/15/2001
Subject: Re. White Stuff

A hair dryer on low heat is the safest way to remove the white stuff heat it up and wipe it off with a Q tip sometimes you need to do it again solvents may damage paint decals & plastic be carefull

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12205	From: Peck	Date: 3/15/2001
Subject: Re: Insurance claims

<<Yes, I have had good luck with the Post Office - provided the shipment was insured by them. I have been on both sides of the deal - shipper and receiver - and they have been OK to deal with. There is some paperwork to fill out and there is a need to establish the value of the item. If you bought it on eBay, the auction ad with the final amount is sufficient. The guy who shipped the goods needs to start the paperwork. After you work through the bureaucracy, the USPS is pretty effective. >> They CAN'T be any worse than UPS. They take our $$$$ for insurance, toss the packages all over creation, and then claim "insufficient packaging" to deny claims! I really wish there was a cost-efficient alternative to UPS. I'd drop them in a minute! Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12206	From: Gerry Evans	Date: 3/15/2001
Subject: Cleaning house

Just trying to clean house here. Don't know if anyone will have any interest in these items, but they have got to be rare--or maybe too old to be of any use to anyone. Eight pieces of S scale/gauge code 125 brass tie-strip. Each is 36" long for a total of 24 feet. The ties appear to be some type of really hard, pressed board. I would not call these true flex-track as they are fairly ridged but not too much more ridged than Tomalco flex-track--which I personally never try to bend. The ties are stapled to the rail from the bottom to create the illusion of spikes. Could this be Miller tie-strip--I dunno. $45 plus shipping, or, preferably, trade for eight pieces of Shinohara S Scale code 100 flex-track. Nine pairs (18) Devore #320 metal knuckle couplers with sprung draft gear for AF. These are in the original packaging. They will mate with AF knuckles, AM dummies, and Kadee 802s. I do not know if they will mate with AM knuckles as I have none to try them with. Trip pin "glad hands" on the bottom open the knuckle by pushing them up and close it by gravity. They are about the same size as Kadee O scale metal knuckle couplers. They all appear to be in working order. $25 plus shipping, or, preferably, trade for 18 Kadee 802s. Gerry Evans [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12207	From: SMITTY@tir.com	Date: 3/15/2001
Subject: bluing compound

Someone recently asked about a bluing compound available at Wal-Mart stores. Another place to look is your local shooters' supplies/gunsmithing establishment, and ask for Birchwood Casey products. They have small bottles of bluing and browning solutions, I've used them both and they're very durable. Repeated applications of the bluing can result in an almost black appearance, I re-did the coal chute in one of my loaders, it's a dead-on restoration. Regard"S", Smitty

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12208	From: SMITTY@tir.com	Date: 3/15/2001
Subject: alternates to eBay

A couple of other places to try: www.trainsmore.com They also do mailorder, and have found them reliable and fair. Selection is not big but they do have nice items from time to time. Prices compare to Marty Cohen's things. Speaking of Marty, he's been collecting for over 20 years, he knows the stuff and the times I've dealt with him, I've been treated square. www.collectorauctions.com Another auction service, run by Stout. The quantity and variety of AF varies, sometimes fair prices sometimes not. Traincity's auction site is perhaps more fair than either eBay's or Stouts, as the end time is not hard and fast, the official end doesn't occur until there's been no bid activity for 10 ( 15 ? ) minutes past the posted end time. His selection isn't great, but he seems to grade fairly. I got a 21005 last spring that wasn't the best, it needed a little repair as was stated, but it was not overgraded either. Regard"S", Smitty

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12209	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/15/2001
Subject: E-Bay

Hey did everyone forget Portline Hobbies......Mike

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12210	From: deisaacs@yahoo.com	Date: 3/15/2001
Subject: Excess Locomotives

Hello I'm new to the group but I have a 336 & 342DC locomotive for sale I upgraded these engines in my collection the 336 is good+ the 342DC is good both run well & smoke I'm a TCA menber been collecting 10+ years. They will be on E Bay as soon as I figure out my scanner unless someone here is interested.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12211	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 3/15/2001
Subject: American Models BUDD Passenger Cars

By special arrangement, I will have a factory sample of the NEW American Models BUDD Passenger Car at the Gilbertsville Train Meet, Sunday March 18th. Look for us at table 29. Also will have a limited number of A-M current catalogs available. Sample is of course not for sale. The meet is in the Gilbertsville Fire Co Hall, east of PA Rt 100 on PA 73. Opens at 9 AM--admission is charged. Jim Lyle [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12212	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 3/16/2001
Subject: Re: American Models BUDD Passenger Cars

Also, Coventry Trains will have a PENNSY Trainmaster there. It will not have sideframes, but will be a running display. Another Trainmaster will be will PHM at Timonium MD Greenberg show this weekend. This one will have sideframes. It will be keeping company with a running prototype IR trolley with the new S gauge 8 wheel power chassis under it. As usual, it will be making 5" radius turns while performing mountain goat duty! Tom D. ----- Original Message ----- From: <WJJIM@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>; <S-Scale@yahoogroups.com> Cc: <rbashista@...> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 10:38 PM Subject: [S-Trains] American Models BUDD Passenger Cars > By special arrangement, I will have a factory sample of the NEW American > Models BUDD Passenger Car at the Gilbertsville Train Meet, Sunday March 18th. > Look for > us at table 29. Also will have a limited number of A-M current catalogs > available. > Sample is of course not for sale. > The meet is in the Gilbertsville Fire Co Hall, east of PA Rt 100 on PA 73. > Opens at > 9 AM--admission is charged. > Jim Lyle > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12213	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 3/16/2001
Subject: Fw: GVT RAIL SYSTEM ANNOUNCES SPECIAL CELEBRATION & EXCURSIONS

RE: GVT RAIL SYSTEM ANNOUNCES SPECIAL CELEBRATION & EXCURSIONSHey Guys, THis R.R. handles the frieght moves right thru Steam Town. If you get a chance, take a look at some of these Alcos doing thir thing. Just another reason to come to Steam Town this year. Also, the trolley line is going to be running about a mile up to the Iron Furnace site. God, I love that place! Tom D> ----- Original Message ----- From: ADJPMULL@... To: chiron1@... ; richkerr@... ; ADJPMULL@... ; john.gallagher@... ; john8042@... ; JWALKER166@... ; JamesBoylan@... ; gwmetz@... ; berks@... ; DGALLA8534@... ; dnoyes1@... ; David.Gairo@... ; DAVEG@... ; trolley1@... ; prtptc17@... ; allmanr@... ; gallagher@... ; gerhard@... ; greighn@... ; tom@... ; mtrosino@... Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 4:46 PM Subject: RE: GVT RAIL SYSTEM ANNOUNCES SPECIAL CELEBRATION & EXCURSIONS GVT RAIL SYSTEM ANNOUNCES SPECIAL CELEBRATION & EXCURSIONS: In conjunction with the 150th Anniversary of the Delaware Lackawanna & Western Railroad and the 100th Anniversary of the American Locomotive Company (ALCO), GVT RAIL has announced that they are planning, on August 10th, 11th and 12th, a special weekend to celebrate these events. The events will be held GVT's "the" Delaware-Lackawanna Railroad in Scranton, Pennsylvania. Drawing from the rich past of both of these historic companies, GVT continues the use of ALCOs on all of their lines, being one of the largest operators of 244 and 251 powered units in North America. In addition, two of GVT's rail lines, the Depew Lancaster & Western, with 5 miles in suburban Buffalo, and "the" Delaware-Lackawanna Railroad, with 46 miles between Scranton and Analomink, Pa., operate over tracks that were once were a part of the Lackawanna's Route of the Phoebe Snow from New York to Buffalo. Plans are being formulated for special photo sessions on Bridge 60, featuring "under and over" shots, and rare mileage excursion trips with multiple lash ups, including ALCO models: C420, C424, C425, C430, C636, and RS 3. Save the dates, ticket sales will be limited to the first 125 customers. TENTATIVE AGENDA: Friday August 10, 2001 a.. Slide Night-a presentation of Lackawanna operations in the Scranton area will be shown. There will also be time allowed for attendees to bring in their own slides of the Lackawanna and ALCOs. Location: Electric City Trolley Museum adjacent Steamtown. Separate admission $15.00 FOR ONE ADMISSION PRICE OF $130.00, GVT RAIL WILL PROVIDE YOU WITH OVER 18 HOURS OF ALCO ACTION: Saturday August 11, 2001 A Super Day! a.. 8:30-10:00 AM Static display of at least 7 different ALCO models, C420, C424, C425, C430, C636, M636*, RS3 plus Lackawanna SC 426 and period freight cars. *apologies to purest this is an MLW, but why complain b.. 10:00 AM departure of all day excursions on the Lackawanna's Pocono Main with multiple runbys, and an RS3 double headed freight following the passenger, for runby spectaculars. Special mind blowing rare mileage only ticket holders will know. Grain train with ALCO power may also be available, depending upon schedules. 7:00 PM ish return to Scranton, supper on your own. c.. 8:30 PM Birthday Party for two historic companies Delaware Lackawanna & Western RR Co. & American Locomotive Company Cake & Ice Cream will be served adjacent to Bridge 60 d.. 9:00 PM Spectacular Night Photo-D&H RS3's will be posed on the x-D&H main below Bridge 60, and Alcos and the 426 on top of Bridge 60 Sunday August 12, 2001 a.. 10:00 AM Excursion departure on the x-D&H Carbondale Main, powered by two RS3's, at least three runby's guaranteed b.. 1:30 PM Return to Bridge 60 in time to catch Steamtown's 2:00PM steam train, or catch a trolley ride to Roaring Brook Gorge Either 2:00 ride will require a separate ticket-on your own FOR MORE INFO: To get on our E-mail mailing list, send an email to DL&W-ALCO Days@... or phone 716 343-5398. (GVT - posted 3/11) P Phil Mulligan [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12214	From: John Foley	Date: 3/16/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: [S-Trains] American Models BUDD Passenger Cars

The NASG will be there also. John At 06:22 AM 3/16/01 -0500, Thomas@... wrote: >Also, Coventry Trains will have a PENNSY Trainmaster there. It will not have >sideframes, but will be a running display. Another Trainmaster will be will >PHM at Timonium MD Greenberg show this weekend. This one will have >sideframes. >It will be keeping company with a running prototype IR trolley with the new >S gauge 8 wheel power chassis under it. As usual, it will be making 5" >radius turns while performing mountain goat duty! >Tom D. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: <WJJIM@...> >To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>; <S-Scale@yahoogroups.com> >Cc: <rbashista@...> >Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 10:38 PM >Subject: [S-Trains] American Models BUDD Passenger Cars > > > > By special arrangement, I will have a factory sample of the NEW >American > > Models BUDD Passenger Car at the Gilbertsville Train Meet, Sunday March >18th. > > Look for > > us at table 29. Also will have a limited number of A-M current catalogs > > available. > > Sample is of course not for sale. > > The meet is in the Gilbertsville Fire Co Hall, east of PA Rt 100 on PA >73. > > Opens at > > 9 AM--admission is charged. > > Jim Lyle > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to >s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > >The topic is S Scale please keep your messages 'on-topic'. >To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12215	From: John Foley	Date: 3/16/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Fw: GVT RAIL SYSTEM ANNOUNCES SPECIAL CELEBRATION & E

Tom Those Alcos smoke beautifully John At 06:43 AM 3/16/01 -0500, Thomas@... wrote: >RE: GVT RAIL SYSTEM ANNOUNCES SPECIAL CELEBRATION & EXCURSIONSHey Guys, >THis R.R. handles the frieght moves right thru Steam Town. If you get a >chance, take a look at some of these Alcos doing thir thing. Just another >reason to come to Steam Town this year. >Also, the trolley line is going to be running about a mile up to the Iron >Furnace site. >God, I love that place! >Tom D> >----- Original Message ----- >From: ADJPMULL@... >To: chiron1@... ; richkerr@... ; ADJPMULL@... ; >john.gallagher@... ; john8042@... ; JWALKER166@... ; >JamesBoylan@... ; gwmetz@... ; berks@... ; >DGALLA8534@... ; dnoyes1@... ; David.Gairo@... ; >DAVEG@... ; trolley1@... ; prtptc17@... ; >allmanr@... ; gallagher@... ; gerhard@... ; >greighn@... ; tom@... ; mtrosino@... >Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 4:46 PM >Subject: RE: GVT RAIL SYSTEM ANNOUNCES SPECIAL CELEBRATION & EXCURSIONS > > >GVT RAIL SYSTEM ANNOUNCES SPECIAL CELEBRATION & EXCURSIONS: In conjunction >with the 150th Anniversary of the Delaware Lackawanna & Western Railroad >and the 100th Anniversary of the American Locomotive Company (ALCO), GVT >RAIL has announced that they are planning, on August 10th, 11th and 12th, >a special weekend to celebrate these events. The events will be held GVT's >"the" Delaware-Lackawanna Railroad in Scranton, Pennsylvania. Drawing from >the rich past of both of these historic companies, GVT continues the use >of ALCOs on all of their lines, being one of the largest operators of 244 >and 251 powered units in North America. In addition, two of GVT's rail >lines, the Depew Lancaster & Western, with 5 miles in suburban Buffalo, >and "the" Delaware-Lackawanna Railroad, with 46 miles between Scranton and >Analomink, Pa., operate over tracks that were once were a part of the >Lackawanna's Route of the Phoebe Snow from New York to Buffalo. Plans are >being formulated for special photo sessions on Bridge 60, featuring "under >and over" shots, and rare mileage excursion trips with multiple lash ups, >including ALCO models: C420, C424, C425, C430, C636, and RS 3. Save the >dates, ticket sales will be limited to the first 125 customers. TENTATIVE >AGENDA: Friday August 10, 2001 > > a.. Slide Night-a presentation of Lackawanna operations in the > Scranton area will be shown. There will also be time allowed for > attendees to bring in their own slides of the Lackawanna and ALCOs. > Location: Electric City Trolley Museum adjacent Steamtown. Separate > admission $15.00 >FOR ONE ADMISSION PRICE OF $130.00, GVT RAIL WILL PROVIDE YOU WITH OVER 18 >HOURS OF ALCO ACTION: Saturday August 11, 2001 A Super Day! > > a.. 8:30-10:00 AM Static display of at least 7 different ALCO models, > C420, C424, C425, C430, C636, M636*, RS3 plus Lackawanna SC 426 and > period freight cars. *apologies to purest this is an MLW, but why complain > b.. 10:00 AM departure of all day excursions on the Lackawanna's > Pocono Main with multiple runbys, and an RS3 double headed freight > following the passenger, for runby spectaculars. Special mind blowing > rare mileage only ticket holders will know. Grain train with ALCO power > may also be available, depending upon schedules. 7:00 PM ish return to > Scranton, supper on your own. > c.. 8:30 PM Birthday Party for two historic companies Delaware > Lackawanna & Western RR Co. & American Locomotive Company Cake & Ice > Cream will be served adjacent to Bridge 60 > d.. 9:00 PM Spectacular Night Photo-D&H RS3's will be posed on the > x-D&H main below Bridge 60, and Alcos and the 426 on top of Bridge 60 >Sunday August 12, 2001 > > a.. 10:00 AM Excursion departure on the x-D&H Carbondale Main, > powered by two RS3's, at least three runby's guaranteed > b.. 1:30 PM Return to Bridge 60 in time to catch Steamtown's 2:00PM > steam train, or catch a trolley ride to Roaring Brook Gorge Either 2:00 > ride will require a separate ticket-on your own >FOR MORE INFO: To get on our E-mail mailing list, send an email to >DL&W-ALCO Days@... or phone 716 343-5398. (GVT - posted 3/11) > >P >Phil Mulligan > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >The topic is S Scale please keep your messages 'on-topic'. >To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12216	From: Doug	Date: 3/16/2001
Subject: Re: American Models BUDD Passenger Cars

Is the Gilbertsville show open Saturday and Sunday?? ----- Original Message ----- From: <Thomas@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>; <S-Scale@yahoogroups.com>; <WJJIM@...> Cc: <rbashista@...> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 6:22 AM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] American Models BUDD Passenger Cars > Also, Coventry Trains will have a PENNSY Trainmaster there. It will not have > sideframes, but will be a running display. Another Trainmaster will be will > PHM at Timonium MD Greenberg show this weekend. This one will have > sideframes. > It will be keeping company with a running prototype IR trolley with the new > S gauge 8 wheel power chassis under it. As usual, it will be making 5" > radius turns while performing mountain goat duty! > Tom D. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <WJJIM@...> > To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>; <S-Scale@yahoogroups.com> > Cc: <rbashista@...> > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 10:38 PM > Subject: [S-Trains] American Models BUDD Passenger Cars > > > > By special arrangement, I will have a factory sample of the NEW > American > > Models BUDD Passenger Car at the Gilbertsville Train Meet, Sunday March > 18th. > > Look for > > us at table 29. Also will have a limited number of A-M current catalogs > > available. > > Sample is of course not for sale. > > The meet is in the Gilbertsville Fire Co Hall, east of PA Rt 100 on PA > 73. > > Opens at > > 9 AM--admission is charged. > > Jim Lyle > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12217	From: sigma@ecn.ab.ca	Date: 3/16/2001
Subject: Re: Today is 3/16

Yesterday Rich Gajnak reminded us of the 3/16 celebratioon, which was good, even though he dsecribed it as National S Day, whereas I thought it had been understood that today was to be INTERnational S Day. Having this in mind I had planned to do what we are now doing: sending greetings to everyone on the S Trains loop from S Canada. Denis Fortier, President Joe Pereira, Secretary email: sigma@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12218	From: Douglass Allen	Date: 3/16/2001
Subject: Convention trade show hours

Dear John I agree with SHS about the trade show hours. I was at the Minnesota convention. I'm sure it is a hassle for the dealers to be expected to attend their tables day in and day out. But it is not the optimum situation for the buyers either. Once or twice I was looking at something I wanted and the dealer was absent. I returned several times during the day looking for him, when I finally do get together with him the item may have just been sold. Suggested hours: Wed. 1-6 PM Thurs 9AM-1-PM Fri 9AM-1-PM [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12219	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 3/16/2001
Subject: Re: 302 vs 302AC

In a message dated 3/14/01 10:46:39 PM, pjpennington@... writes: << Can someone tell me the difference between a 302 and a 302AC 4-4-2 steamer? I have noticed the AC on a couple of other locomotives as well. Is there a significance? Thanks Tom >> Atlantics numbered 302 have smoke and choo-choo in boiler. The 302 appeared in the form of the four piece die cast engine in 1948, and in the form of the one piece plastic engine in 1952-53 (catalogued in 53). The 302AC appeared in the form of the one piece die cast engine in 1950-51 (catalogued in 51). Please see page 13 in (Here comes the blatant commercial!) in the "TM Illustrated American Flyer S Gauge Price Guide and History". Hope this helps. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12220	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 3/16/2001
Subject: New file uploaded to S-Trains

Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the S-Trains group. File : /Steamtown Schedule.doc Uploaded by : foley164@... Description : Steamtown USA 2001 Schedule You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/Steamtown%20Schedule.doc To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, foley164@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12221	From: Scott Brown	Date: 3/16/2001
Subject: MTH Prototypes

I just got home from the train store. In my possession are the prototypes for MTH's coal loader and Gabe the Lamplighter. MTH loaned them to us for our show this weekend. Both look quite nice. The coal loader seems to run a bit slow like several of you mentioned after seeing it at York. Gabe seems to work quite well. I will give you a more detailed report later on how they operate. Just thought I'd let you salivate a little. LOL Scott Brown Atlantic Coast S Gaugers Washington & Old Dominion Division

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12222	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 3/16/2001
Subject: Mike's smoke fluid

Mike Strickland, Please e-mail me regarding your project ASAP, I have lost your e-mail address. Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12223	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 3/16/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, March 18, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12224	From: SMITTY@tir.com	Date: 3/16/2001
Subject: AM Budd cars

By special arrangement, I will have a factory sample of the NEW American Models BUDD Passenger Car at the Gilbertsville Train Meet, Sunday March 18th. Look for us at table 29. Also will have a limited number of A-M current catalogs available. Sample is of course not for sale. The meet is in the Gilbertsville Fire Co Hall, east of PA Rt 100 on PA 73. Opens at 9 AM--admission is charged. Ron had samples of these cars at the Jan. SMSG meeting, the detail in the truck sides is REALLY nice. If you plan on attending the meet, take the time to check 'em out ! Ron is to be commended for his continued offering of fine S-products. Regard"S", Smitty

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12225	From: Ted R Larson	Date: 3/16/2001
Subject: Standards

Some time ago there was a question regarding how the NASG and NMRA standards relate. I do not recall seeing an answer. I recently checked the NMRA website for this. The NMRA PROTO - FINE SCALE standards match the NASG standards. NMRA RP-3 matches NASG S3. NMRA RP-4 matches NASG S4. http://www.nmra.org/standards/rp-4.html http://www.nmra.org/standards/rp-3.html The NMRA dimensional module standards match the NASG S-MOD standards. The NMRA standards include in addition a recommended minimum curved track-to-track center-line spacing dimension of 3-1/2", versus the 3-3/4" recommendation for 48 inch corner modules, however the track radius for 48 inch corner modules is correspondingly less than the NMRA recommended track radius. The NMRA electrical module standards state to refer to your local NASG club. The NMRA track design standards for maximum grade, minimum switch #, minimum radii (scale track and hi-rail track) appear to be consistent with recommendations that members of the S e-list community have recommended. http://www.nmra.org/standards/mrp-1.html I would like to hear from any S scale switch manufacturers or other knowledgable persons how the S scale products compare to the NMRA RP-12.2 Turnout Dimensions http://www.nmra.org/standards/rp12_2.html Note that the above standards also include crossover recommendations. Take some time to browse this site. There is a wealth of information useful to all flavors of model railroading. Ted Larson Duh! I just found a PHOTO-COPY button in my scanner software!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12226	From: guckian@infinet.com	Date: 3/16/2001
Subject: alco & geep

Hi Tom,Yes I would be interested in 12-14 sets of pickup shoe sets.Pickup shoes are needed on all deisel and steam engines for performance and keeping the sparking from track to wheel under control.I think you could sell a lot of pick up shoes for diesels.Looks like a real sensiable system to me.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12227	From: deisaacs@yahoo.com	Date: 3/16/2001
Subject: Re: Excess Locomotives

I've been overwhelmed with inquires on 336 & 342DC locomotives. I will try to respond to everyone. It's 1:47 AM here in Indiana good night!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12228	From: Rick Evans	Date: 3/16/2001
Subject: S-Trains member update......

We are now up to 670 members!! Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12229	From: Bob	Date: 3/17/2001
Subject: Dover,N.J. show......

Hello all, I was just wondering if anyone in our group is going to the Dover,N.J. train show on Sunday April 1,2001 ? No this is not an April Fools gag ! Please e-mail me or post any or all of your answers.Thanks again. "S"incerely...........Bob

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12230	From: Scott Holm	Date: 3/17/2001
Subject: Ebay results

Richard Myers and the four other ids have been suspended from Ebay for 30 days. Thanks to those who helped convince Ebay when I was unable to. I assume that you want to preserve your anonymity, so I'm not mentioning any names. I regret that Richard knows that I blew the whistle. The next time I will be more discreet. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12231	From: lancemccold@chartertn.net	Date: 3/17/2001
Subject: Book Review

This list is a great place to learn from others. I just saw an advertisement for a book, "American Flyer S Gauge 1946- 2000; A TM Illustrated Price Guide and History." Has anyone seen this book? Can anyone offer thoughts on whether it is worth the $20 being asked for it? Thanks in advance. Lance McCold

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12232	From: Tom Stolte	Date: 3/17/2001
Subject: One big mess

Folks, If you all have been trying to get to my web page and been having trouble viewing my pages & links. Seem like tripod.com has cancel my account with no notice to me explaining why they did this. Right now all the links are not working right. So I'm in the process in looking for another free web hosting site, or get one where I have to pay for a site. If you would like to email tripod and tell them what you think of their web hosting service or ask them why they cancel my account, please feel free to do so at: abuse@... Just refer me to them as mopac1. They should know what the heck is going on. So far I have not hear anything from Tripod at all about my account. You can still view the main page with all the decal listings, but my web counter, guest book, gif files of what the decals look like are history now. Along with other links. Tom Stolte - Oddballs Decals www.oddballsdecals.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12233	From: Nick and Becky Colleran	Date: 3/17/2001
Subject: Wanted: AF Pikemaster straight track

I am working on a project that requires a quantity of Gilbert American Flyer Pikemaster straight track. It doesn't have to be clean but needs to be unbroken. Let me know what you have and the cost. --- Nick

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12234	From: busyboy	Date: 3/18/2001
Subject: Let's do this!

I bought a Downs tank car from Gary Ippolito. Here is what he puts on his auctions: ATTENTION S SCALE MODELERS! Are you tired of having to search eBay with search strings of "American Models", "S Helper Service", "S Scale", "S Gauge" and the ever-popular "S Guage" then have to wade through all of the American Flyer stuff? Well, I certainly am. But there is an alternative. Please follow this link: http://pages.ebay.com/help/basics/select-support.html to eBay's Customer Service Department and let them know that we need an "S" category. Geeze, the TT and OO guys have their own category! It's about time we had our own. Thank you, Gary Ippolito This is a great idea. I have already done so and I urge the rest of you e-Bay sellers and buyers to do the same. Let us present a united front. By the way, the seller that Scott was complaining about for shilling last week has now been suspended. I wrote Safe Harbor reminding them of the past instances where we as a group worked to get two shill artists thrown off the service. I told them how we cooperate to gather information and I presented us as a united front. I think that made the difference. What Scott could not accomplish as a lone buyer was attainable with the strength of many voices. I've read a lot of stuff and nonsense in this list about eBay lately. These auctions are a viable tool for acquiring and divesting all sorts of merchandise. I think that it is a wonderful thing. I also think that a radial arm saw is a great tool, but it can cut your fingers off if you misuse it. On eBay, you are standing in a public market place and competing with everyone else in the on-line world. You have got to appreciate your position and understand that it is not the same as privately contacting a dealer and buying directly. It is a bigger place, filled with many pitfalls including thieves, swindlers and liars. It is up to you to navigate those waters, recognize the crap and cull out the good stuff. Once in a while, someone may burn you. If you are careful, though, you can get great bargains or at least get something you really want, that is hard to find, for a fair price. E-Bay is terrific, but it will never replace York, is not a substitute for going to see Charlie at Nassau Hobbies (who actually carries S-Gauge), and cannot diminish the need for regular mail-order suppliers. It's just another valuable resource and I am glad to have it. Happy Belated St. Gilbert's Day (3/16). The parade was terrific. The new 470 PA float in 1:1 was fantastic, and the Gabe the Lamplighter balloon was a tremendous new addition this year. I didn't like the guy with the bull horn doing the station announcements, he gave me a headache. I think that next year, they should just use a recording of the original. A great new touch this year was a line of fork lifts with barrels. Must have been eight of them across. Great idea. Also, they redid the "Kids at the Crossing Gate" banner, so it was nice and clear, no more stains on it. Of the two kids, the older guy passed on this year, but the younger one was there, riding under the banner in an open top limo with flags on the fenders also with the crossing gate picture. It was an emotional moment. My clothes stink from cedar smoke. My wife sent them all out to the cleaners already. Oh well, maybe I'll see you all in New Haven next year. Two to go (marching), Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12235	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 3/18/2001
Subject: Re: Happy Belated St. Gilbert's Day (3/16)

Dear Chris, You should have split your last e-mail. I usually ignore the e-bay stuff, but I always enjoy anything you write, so I kept on reading. The last part was a real gem, I am sure many missed. Don Happy Belated St. Gilbert's Day (3/16). The parade was terrific. The new 470 PA float in 1:1 was fantastic, and the Gabe the Lamplighter balloon was a tremendous new addition this year. I didn't like the guy with the bull horn doing the station announcements, he gave me a headache. I think that next year, they should just use a recording of the original. A great new touch this year was a line of fork lifts with barrels. Must have been eight of them across. Great idea. Also, they redid the "Kids at the Crossing Gate" banner, so it was nice and clear, no more stains on it. Of the two kids, the older guy passed on this year, but the younger one was there, riding under the banner in an open top limo with flags on the fenders also with the crossing gate picture. It was an emotional moment. My clothes stink from cedar smoke. My wife sent them all out to the cleaners already. Oh well, maybe I'll see you all in New Haven next year. Two to go (marching), Chris Zizz -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New 2nd run reefers are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12236	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 3/18/2001
Subject: Re: Let's do this!

I sent the message below to eBay customer support. I hope it does some good. It seems as S gaugers we are descriminated against every where you turn! Chuck Message below................ We would like you to add the catagory S to Scales, Top>Toys & Hobbies>Hobbies:Model RR, Trains>Scales>S This group is now using the American Flyer catagory which has grown very large. The Scales>S group would get many more auctions than say the Scales>TT group, which you already have. Thanks in advance for considering this... Chuck Harrington myflyertrains@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12237	From: Thomas EE Hillery	Date: 3/18/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 948

re: dover 4/1 train show I believe I will be there. Tom J. , are you interested- Tom Hillery

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12238	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 3/18/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 948

In a message dated 03/18/2001 1:53:13 AM Mountain Standard Time, S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes: > From: lancemccold@... > Subject: Book Review > > This list is a great place to learn from others. > > I just saw an advertisement for a book, "American Flyer S Gauge 1946- > 2000; A TM Illustrated Price Guide and History." > > Has anyone seen this book? Can anyone offer thoughts on whether it is > worth the $20 being asked for it? > > Thanks in advance. > > Lance McCold > > > . Steve Blackburn, TCA, NASG, RMHR Boise, Idaho [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12239	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 3/18/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, March 18, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12240	From: Tom Robichaud	Date: 3/18/2001
Subject: Re: MTH Prototypes

Scott: Any chance they told you when they are REALLY planning on shipping these items? Tommy "Scott Brown" <sbrown56@...> on 03/16/2001 06:05:13 PM Please respond to "Scott Brown" <sbrown56@...> To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com cc: Subject: [S-Trains] MTH Prototypes I just got home from the train store. In my possession are the prototypes for MTH's coal loader and Gabe the Lamplighter. MTH loaned them to us for our show this weekend. Both look quite nice. The coal loader seems to run a bit slow like several of you mentioned after seeing it at York. Gabe seems to work quite well. I will give you a more detailed report later on how they operate. Just thought I'd let you salivate a little. LOL Scott Brown Atlantic Coast S Gaugers Washington & Old Dominion Division S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12241	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 3/18/2001
Subject: Re: and Steamtown 2001 Schedule At-A-Glance

Dear John, I know of at least 3 manufactures that would like to change the times so that they to can enjoy the other parts of the convention. Are you sure the other dealers are aware of what happens that these events when the dealer hall is open while tours and a real rail museum is next door? In the past, it really is a ghost town. If your tours are not filling, it may be due to the fact that people are planning on seeing the prototype just out the back door. Please re-consider the times for the dealer halls. Don T. > Dear John, > Just a few comments, The only trip the dealers can take without closing down is the trip on Friday. > > Suggested Revised Schedule for the dealer halls to be open for sales: > Wednesday - 7PM to 10PM, open 3 hours > Thursday - 7PM to 10PM, open 3 hours > Friday - 9AM to 1PM, open 5 hours > Saturday - 9AM to 2PM, open 6 hours > Total hours open 17 hours > trips missed - none > Suggested layout and dealer set-up Wednesday 9AM to 7 PM Don T. John Foley wrote: > At 09:36 PM 3/17/01 -0500, you wrote: > > Don > I got more emails from dealers saying the hours are fine. > Only two have a problem. > So what can I say. > John -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New 2nd run reefers are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12243	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 3/18/2001
Subject: New file uploaded to S-Trains

Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the S-Trains group. File : /Mvc-001s.jpg Uploaded by : loubaldi@... Description : PHM's- New Trainmaster on display at Timonium You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/Mvc-001s.jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, loubaldi@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12244	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 3/18/2001
Subject: New file uploaded to S-Trains

Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the S-Trains group. File : /Trainmaster/Mvc-002s.jpg Uploaded by : loubaldi@... Description : You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/Trainmaster/Mvc-002s.jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, loubaldi@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12245	From: loubaldi@aol.com	Date: 3/18/2001
Subject: Digital Images

Uploaded several digital images of the Baltimore Area American Flyer Club modular layout to the folder marked 'Train Show - Timonium MD'in the FILES section of this message board. I'm trying to add the link below - but I have had trouble in the past when it wraps. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/Train%20Show%20-% 20Timonium%20Md%20/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12246	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 3/18/2001
Subject: Hvywt full baggage car

What do you know about a heavyweight full baggage car by Instruments Design? There was one up on eBay (1120627049). Looks interesting, just never heard of or saw one before. I'm Just getting into AF hvywts and thought one of these painted to match might look good -------------------------- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld (www.BlackBerry.net) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12247	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 3/18/2001
Subject: Gargraves Track

I was at the Timonium show yesterday, and saw several vendors selling Gargraves track. Is this track compatible with AF track? If not, are there conversion pieces available or easy to make? This stuff looks pretty nice, does anyone have experience using it, and is it better/worse than the track from S-Helper? I have plans for a large layout, and the one thing that is very hard to find is AF track in quantity and in very good condition. Also, ANYTHING would be better than trying to keep the steel track clean and rust free. Any info is appreciated. Thanks, Tom _---_---_---______--__--___+-----+||] [||####### B & O #####|______||_____ || pjpennington@... __| [][] |__ || ||_______________________/ _| B&O |___\_|| | ||| | | | | | | / | 4212 | # ||| | []|=|==================o=====o==================|=|[] /|-||(0)|=|(0)|=|(O) |_________| (0)|=|(0)|=|(O)||-|\ ======================================================== [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12248	From: nmescher@classictrains.com	Date: 3/18/2001
Subject: American "S" Gauge Track

Dallas of Dallee Electronics, Inc. will be showing and operating the new American "S" Gauge 60" Flex Track at the Eastern Division TCA, York, PA meet on April 27-28, 2001. This track is compatible with AF track and is rust free, featuring heavy-duty premium code.172 solid Nickel/Silver rail for optimum electrical contact. Rail, and 6 bolt rail joiners come weathered. You can install original AF track trips to it, or as we recommend, Dallee Electronics, Inc. state of the art electronic triggering devices. We have on order 5,000 pieces of the 60" Flex Track due in sometime in April, 2001 with the sectional track and closed frog S-54 Remote Control Switches due in before the end of the year 2001. The uniquely designed closed frog switch allows all three wheel flanges, AF, Hi-Rail, and Scale to operate on this track. You can view track samples at-http://trainweb.com/crocon/strack.html Thank you, Nick Mescher Classic Trains American "S" Gauge

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12249	From: lapasafe@worldnet.att.net	Date: 3/18/2001
Subject: Gargraves Track And Showcase Line

I'm using code 172, NS, American S Gauge track. Wouldn't consider using any other Track . Just waiting for the new switches. View at http://trainweb.com/crocon/strack.html you'll be glad you did. I'm running both AC/DC; Scale, Highrail and American Flyer. All run great. My newest engine, is On3 Shay, Modified to operate on S gauge. What a Beauty, even if do say so myself. Will be able to use Flyer Accessorys as well. Reginald Lapasafe Lamanda Park Santa Fe

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12250	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/19/2001
Subject: 944 Brownhoist Crane

Hi guys, Can someone let me know what the two steel plates and the sliding bar under them on the underside of a 944 Brownhoist Crane are for??? Thanks for your help....Results from the smoke test are comming in at this time 11 out of about 35....varing opinonsMost adverse at this time,the kerosene smell....working on that....the amt of smoke& viscosity / wicking are agreeable.....Will have a second offering to test ....when ready i'll let you know and any one that wants another sample of the second brew at no cost (no postage even) .....Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12251	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 3/19/2001
Subject: Re: Gargraves Track

Tom, We run Gargraves track on 9 of 14 sections of our modular layout, along with good old Gilbert AF on the other 5 sections. Gargraves has it's +s and -s. On the + side. 1. It does interface well with AF track since it also uses hollow rail and mating pins. 2. When laid on 3/16" thick roadbed (common HO cork) it's rail height matches AF with rubber roadbed. 3. Gargraves now has sectional track (which I haven't tried. Ours is all flex.) 4. Gargraves looks good when ballasted. Not quite as good as scale, or AM track, but better than AF. On the - side: 1. The metal used for the rail is a bit thin. The rail dents somewhat easily. Do NOT let anything like a hammer or drill motor (or a heavy loco) land on it from even a few inches above. 2. Their regular rail is made of tin-plated steel, just like AF. It solders easily, but after the tin wears off the rail top you'll begin to see light rust form on the bare steel if you let a month go between operating sessions. They do make track with stainless steel rail, which is a bit harder and non-corrosive. You can't solder to the SS stuff, but soldering feeders to the brass connecting pins seems to work well. (we have one module with GG stainless.) The stainless is more expensive. 3. Forming smooth curves with GG flextrack is a bit tricky. It's not impossible, but it takes much patient massaging of the rail and ties. 4. Quality control has been "iffy" in my experience. Six sections of flextrack that I bought from a hobby store a few years ago have rail with a definite ripple on the head. Heavy locos "hum" when they roll over it. On the other hand, the three sections of stainless flextrack that I got last year were perfectly smooth, very nice. 5. I have heard of, but not personally witnessed, operators wearing out Gargraves rail, but that has supposedly been with heavy, day-in- day-out use. In other words, in a routine year-round public display situation. That factor may not apply in your case. Still, the rail IS thin. I've become uneasy enough about the wear on our own layout that I've put off ballasting the Gargraves until I get a better idea of how long it will last. I may rip the GG stuff out and go with another brand on those sections. Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12252	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 3/19/2001
Subject: 944 Brownhoist Crane

That is what is sometimes called an "outrigger", what I think Gilbert referred to as a "jack". It's supposed to be extended and supported to keep the crane from toppling over when lifting something at the side. Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12253	From: David	Date: 3/19/2001
Subject: Re: 944 Brownhoist Crane

Those are jack bars. Not much use on a model, but a static scene can be set up using them. On the real car, those are extended, and jacks are placed under them to keep the crane from tipping over while lifting heavy loads.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12254	From: busyboy	Date: 3/19/2001
Subject: Hvywt full baggage car

David Horn wrote: >What do you know about a heavyweight full baggage car by Instruments Design? >There was one up on eBay (1120627049). Looks interesting David: Your BlackBerry Wireless Handheld is a bit behind the times. This auction ended 7 days ago! Nothing like teasing us with something we can't have. Did you at least buy the thing? Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12255	From: busyboy	Date: 3/19/2001
Subject: Re: American "S" Gauge Track

The track looks good, but . . . $1000 for 200 feet = $5 a foot, unballasted. I don't think so. Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12256	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 3/19/2001
Subject: Re: Gargraves Track

Just a suggestion on connecting to the stainless steel. We squeeze the bottom of the rails together and use a # 51 drill through both layers of the rail "web". Then put a # 2 self tap screw through it from the outside in. This is less visible and is safer since the screw point is between the rails. We then put a lug on the wire and place under the screw. Works great for our traveling show and is easily repairable if damaged. ----- Original Message ----- From: <eighthmile@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 3:12 AM Subject: [S-Trains] Re: Gargraves Track > Tom, > > We run Gargraves track on 9 of 14 sections of our modular layout, > along with good old Gilbert AF on the other 5 sections. Gargraves has > it's +s and -s. > > On the + side. > > 1. It does interface well with AF track since it also uses hollow > rail and mating pins. > > 2. When laid on 3/16" thick roadbed (common HO cork) it's rail height > matches AF with rubber roadbed. > > 3. Gargraves now has sectional track (which I haven't tried. Ours is > all flex.) > > 4. Gargraves looks good when ballasted. Not quite as good as scale, > or AM track, but better than AF. > > On the - side: > > 1. The metal used for the rail is a bit thin. The rail dents somewhat > easily. Do NOT let anything like a hammer or drill motor (or a heavy > loco) land on it from even a few inches above. > > 2. Their regular rail is made of tin-plated steel, just like AF. It > solders easily, but after the tin wears off the rail top you'll begin > to see light rust form on the bare steel if you let a month go > between operating sessions. They do make track with stainless steel > rail, which is a bit harder and non-corrosive. You can't solder to > the SS stuff, but soldering feeders to the brass connecting pins > seems to work well. (we have one module with GG stainless.) The > stainless is more expensive. > > 3. Forming smooth curves with GG flextrack is a bit tricky. It's not > impossible, but it takes much patient massaging of the rail and ties. > > 4. Quality control has been "iffy" in my experience. Six sections of > flextrack that I bought from a hobby store a few years ago have rail > with a definite ripple on the head. Heavy locos "hum" when they roll > over it. On the other hand, the three sections of stainless flextrack > that I got last year were perfectly smooth, very nice. > > 5. I have heard of, but not personally witnessed, operators wearing > out Gargraves rail, but that has supposedly been with heavy, day-in- > day-out use. In other words, in a routine year-round public display > situation. That factor may not apply in your case. Still, the rail IS > thin. I've become uneasy enough about the wear on our own layout that > I've put off ballasting the Gargraves until I get a better idea of > how long it will last. I may rip the GG stuff out and go with another > brand on those sections. > > > Chuck F. > > > > > > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12257	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/19/2001
Subject: Roger Patteralla???

Roger, You sent me the vials for testing......Lost your E-Mail address and how to spell your last name ......Mike Please send it to me...I did mail Item to you....Excuse me for using list to find Roger In Colo......Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12258	From: D Simon	Date: 3/19/2001
Subject: Lionel value help

I know this is a little off the list, but can anyone give me an idea of what a lionel set #6-11748 is worth. It is the Amtrack set The box looks ok and the trains look in vg to e- shape Thanks for your help Dave _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12259	From: riechert@qwest.net	Date: 3/19/2001
Subject: 769A beacon- what's the secret?

Just bought a 769A aircraft beacon and haven't gotten the top to rotate yet. I'm not sure if the top is original or not but AFAIK it's original. It appears to be unused. Most of the vanes in the top were not bent down at all. I've tried bending them down various amounts but not too far down. So far, haven't gotten it to rotate on it's own. I've made sure the base is level and that the top is not dragging as it rotates. What's the secret? Thanks. Jerry Riechert

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12260	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 3/19/2001
Subject: Re: 769A beacon- what's the secret?

Jerry, As far as I know (which usually isn't much), there is no real secret. You have to keep messing with them until they work. You can also vary the rotational speed by how much hot air flows through the vents. It does take a while for the hot air to start flowing too. And as soon as you get it working someone knocks the beacon off and the tabs get bent again. You do have to have a good bulb. The best I've seen come from, guess who, Doug Peck. I'm sure someone on the list must have a trick. Roger Petrella Franktown, CO riechert@... wrote: > Just bought a 769A aircraft beacon and haven't gotten the top to > rotate yet. I'm not sure if the top is original or not but AFAIK it's > original. It appears to be unused. Most of the vanes in the top were > not bent down at all. I've tried bending them down various amounts > but not too far down. So far, haven't gotten it to rotate on it's own. > I've made sure the base is level and that the top is not dragging > as it rotates. What's the secret? Thanks. > > Jerry Riechert > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12261	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/19/2001
Subject: BEACON WATTS THE SECRET (pun intended)

What about the wattage of the bulb you are using To low a wattage less heat Higher wattage more heat as any one with a G-P9 can tell you ( guys with 21004's also) Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12262	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 3/19/2001
Subject: Re: Gargraves Track

I use a lot of gargraves on my home layout. It is compatible with AF. If you use cork roadbed under Gargraves and rubber under AF the height match is very good. If you don't use roadbed under either then you have to shim up the Gargraves to match bare AF track. Flyer switch bases will not touch the table with this arrangement (nor do rhey with AF rubber roadbed either). Not a problem, the switches "hang" on the 6 connecting track pins and work fine. Gargraves pins don't match AF pin sizes 100% but they can be manhandles enough to make them work. When you ballast the Gargraves you really begin to appreciate how good it looks compared to AF. Tom Pennington wrote: > > I was at the Timonium show yesterday, and saw several vendors selling > Gargraves track. Is this track > compatible with AF track? If not, are there conversion pieces available or > easy to make? This stuff > looks pretty nice, does anyone have experience using it, and is it > better/worse than the track from S-Helper? > I have plans for a large layout, and the one thing that is very hard to > find is AF track in quantity and in very > good condition. Also, ANYTHING would be better than trying to keep the > steel track clean and rust free. > Any info is appreciated. Thanks, Tom > > _---_---_---______--__--___+-----+||] > [||####### B & O #####|______||_____ > || pjpennington@... __| [][] |__ || > ||_______________________/ _| B&O |___\_|| > | ||| | | | | | | / | 4212 | # ||| | > []|=|==================o=====o==================|=|[] > /|-||(0)|=|(0)|=|(O) |_________| (0)|=|(0)|=|(O)||-|\ > ======================================================== > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12263	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 3/19/2001
Subject: Re: 944 Brownhoist Crane

They are outriggers to prevent crane car from tipping over when lifting loads from the side. anormal1@... wrote: > > Hi guys, > Can someone let me know what the two steel plates and the > sliding bar under them on the underside of a 944 Brownhoist Crane are for??? > Thanks for your help....Results from the smoke test are comming in at this > time 11 out of about 35....varing opinonsMost adverse at this time,the > kerosene smell....working on that....the amt of smoke& viscosity / wicking > are agreeable.....Will have a second offering to test ....when ready i'll let > you know and any one that wants another sample of the second brew at no cost > (no postage even) .....Mike S. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12264	From: Eugene Steffan	Date: 3/19/2001
Subject: Lionel #11748

My Greenburg book lists this at 150, Exc. & 165, new.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12265	From: Ktrdd@AOL.com	Date: 3/19/2001
Subject: Gargraves & Outriggers

Hi Gang, Question asked how to bend Gargraves track? I used my water heater years ago. It offers enough radius to work this track for AF. The biggest plus is that most basement modelers have one? My present layout is 99% AF Track--1 Gargraves switch. Gargraves Track is fairly fragile. Avoid putting pliers on it or else! Outriggers can be found on firetruck ladder trucks: cranes and heavy road equipment used in stationary jobs. A crane operator will extend these outriggers when extending the "reach" of the boom. Depending upon the length of the boom when extended; the angle of the lift and the weight of the object lifted, the operator cannot exceed the "limit" of the crane for that load movement. If so, the boom buckles and guess what??! I don't know whether a gauge in the cab tells him the blow-by-blow, but I guess that's how it's works? I think the 944 is a work of art by ACG==one of my favorite pieces. John R

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12266	From: SMITTY@tir.com	Date: 3/19/2001
Subject: gargraves and beacons

I'd second Chuck's observations as to the ripple effect on the rail- head. I had a very temporary layout that used some Gargraves flex in the corners, just a couple of applications with a brightboy took the plating off the tops of the ripples which accelerated the corrosion process. Also found it difficult to get a smooth curve without kinks. Maybe their stainless variety is better ? Purchase a section or two of American Models .148 flex and compare that to the stainless before you jump in with both feet. As to the balky beacon, I've gone there, done that with the posted suggestions, ie., tweaking the vanes, more or less voltage, perfectly level / plumb structure, all without much difference until.......I took a Q-tip moistened with isopropyl alcohol and wiped off the pivot pin of the beacon and cleaned out the dimple in the bulb. What a difference ! Now normally within 30 seconds it's spinning merrily around spreading beams of red and green to all lost aircraft within a 3/16 scale one-mile radius ! Regard"S", Smitty

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12267	From: Tom Stolte	Date: 3/19/2001
Subject: Re: [N] One big mess

Thanks you very much Kevin. I will see what happens in the next 24 to 48 hours. "Kevin N. Wagner" wrote: > TomThis link may answer your question with > Tripodhttp://www.msnbc.com/news/546683.aspGood LuckKevin > Wagnerhttp://www.wagnerlines.com -- Tom Stolte - Oddballs Decals N, HO, S & O Scale Model Railroad Decals 26550 227th Street; McLouth, Kansas 66054 Phone: 913-727-6649 - oddballdecal@... Web site http://www.oddballsdecals.com/ Subscribe: OddballsDecals-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Missouri Pacific Photos Web Page: http://www.trainweb.org/mopac/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12268	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 3/19/2001
Subject: Re: 769A beacon- what's the secret?

Get a reproduction beacon and a new bulb from Doug Peck at Portline Hobbies. Doug gaurantees it to work, and it does! I bought one from him last year and it works great right out of the shipping carton. Chris [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12269	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 3/20/2001
Subject: American S Gauge track

Hmm. Lessee here... The ASG track costs $5 a foot, or just under $0.42/inch. That's for the 60" flex, with no ballast. Cost per inch is the same for the 10" sections. SHS has no flex (yet), but sectional is about $0.41/inch in 15" sections, $0.50/inch in 10" sections. It's "ballasted" already, which is ok if you like the ballast. (If you don't, and want to apply your own ballast, another brand of track must be used.) It looks like ASG track is comparable to SHS in cost, though it would seem that ASG has decided to put their production costs into heavier, more expensive rail rather than plastic ballast. American Models 36" flex is about $0.23/inch, but uses brass rail instead of ns. From what I've heard, ns is better. I can't help wondering how much cheaper the ASG track would be if they didn't color the rail. Rail has to be painted (weathered) for a truly realistic look anyway, so blackening or anodizing the rail seems like a wasted effort to me. Maybe it wouldn't make a significant difference, I dunno. Who'd have thought we'd one day have so many track options in S? Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12270	From: nmescher@classictrains.com	Date: 3/20/2001
Subject: American "S" Gauge Flex Pricing

To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com The 60" flex track is $4.00 per 10 inch section or $24.00 per length. The extra dollar per section was to include carton, shipping and insurance. I am going to eliminate that for now and charge shipping, handling and insurance charges at time of order. I will ask Craig O'Connell to make the changes on the trainweb site for me to reflect correct flex track pricing. Thank you Nick Mescher Classic Trains American "S" Gauge

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12271	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 3/20/2001
Subject: Bending Gargraves

Hi hi-railers, I used a 14" tire from my car that I didn't throw away. It gave the Gargraves a smooth curve and when you let it relax it will come back to any radius you need. On long curves you should solder sections before beding just as with AM flex track. I still have to weather and ballast my layout, perhaps after my life as NASG and NPSG secretary. Staying on the NPSG branchline of NASG track, Glenn John R wrote: Hi Gang, Question asked how to bend Gargraves track? I used my water heater years ago. It offers enough radius to work this track for AF. The biggest plus is that most basement modelers have one? John R

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12272	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 3/20/2001
Subject: baggage door window inserts

Does anyone sell replacement windows for 653 combination car baggage doors? They look a bit specialized in that they are cross-hatched with yellow-green lines. Thanks. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12273	From: Douglass Allen	Date: 3/20/2001
Subject: 769 A

The vanes should be bent UP not down. I find that about a 45 degree angle works best. If there are ANY drafts in the vicinity they will defeat the chimney effect and it won't turn. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12274	From: sgriggs@umich.edu	Date: 3/20/2001
Subject: Re: American S Gauge track

--- In S-Trains@y..., eighthmile@m... wrote: >> > American Models 36" flex is about $0.23/inch, but uses brass rail > instead of ns. From what I've heard, ns is better. > > > Chuck F. American Models offers Nickel Silver rail on a special order basis. I think it costs about $2 more per 36" section of flex. When American Models first announced their code 148 track system about 10 years ago, it was going to be NS with weathered sides. I later found out that Ron selected brass because it has better electrical properties. I am using standard (brass) AM track on my layout in progress. I considered using the NS stuff, but I was concerned about long term availability since it's only available special order. Real rail is grimy on the sides anyway, so AM's weathered brass rail still looks pretty realistic. Scott

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12275	From: Robert Wight	Date: 3/20/2001
Subject: Just a story

I recently moved from northern Minnesota to southern Minnesota. The house we purchased happen to be about 100 yards from a railroad track. Imagine that. When we purchased the house we had noticed that the neighbors had these tin signs on there yards. The signs showed a steam engine with a circle and a line down the middle. Words above this said "No Coal Trains". Now i had never seen such a thing and commented to my domestic partner. Why in the world would a person put such a thing in there yard? She said "dun-no". I'm glad she didn't know, because if she did,I would start to wonder. So we have made the move to our new environment. After living here for awhile we discovered that a train comes down the track about twice a day. We both enjoy it immensely and go outside and watch and never grow tired of it. In fact we find it very calming and peaceful for us. It turns out that in the paper people have been fighting the railroad because they want to use the track more and I guess it is to haul coal and scrape metal. I guess these signs are in protest and they don't like the trains. Early in the mourning we need to arrive in a larger town about 45 miles from hear for my partner in life to get her chemotherapy. At that time in the mourning in this town. Albert Lea Minnesota, the trains go buy honking the diesel horn and locomoting down the way as we enter the hospital. It makes us feel very good and calms us and we certainly enjoy it my all means. Isn't it funny on how diverse people's point of view is? One mans irritant is another mans medicine. Happy Railroading Bob Wight __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12276	From: Al Paolozzi	Date: 3/20/2001
Subject: Re: baggage door window inserts

I'm Pretty sure that Doug Peck carries them. ----- Original Message ----- From: <david_horn@...> To: <s-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 6:23 AM Subject: [S-Trains] baggage door window inserts > Does anyone sell replacement windows for 653 combination car baggage doors? > They look a bit specialized in that they are cross-hatched with yellow-green > lines. Thanks. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12277	From: M.McConnell	Date: 3/20/2001
Subject: American Models Track

Our club is in the process of building our second layout. We had much discussion on what track to use, and debated on: 1) looks 2) cost 3) easy of bending and laying 4) availability 5) durability 6) maintenance 7) compatibility with scale and hi-rail. We considered SHS S-Trax, but because we are building a sectional layout, we decided the need to cut and weld the sectional track at each 4' section would be too much work. We had asked Ron Bashista (of American Models) the pro's and con's of brass vs Nickle-Silver (NS). Ron informed us he is using an improved formulation of brass that is a light bright-yellow color and it does not oxidize as much as the older 'red brass' formulation first used. He believes the new brass rail works as well as NS and the color is close to the silver color, especially after some use and cleanings. Remember, the rail is pre-weathered - only the rail top is brass color. (All that said and done, we decided to special-order the NS track anyway since that's what we used on our old layout.) You can still get the NS-type of flex track from AM - but the order must be for 200+ pieces, and you will need to wait for it to be manufactured. It retails for about $.26/inch for weathered rail. (No, I don't own stock in AM - just passing on the info.) Michael >Message: 17 > Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 08:31:38 -0000 > From: eighthmile@... >Subject: American S Gauge track > > >Hmm. Lessee here... > >*SNIP* > >American Models 36" flex is about $0.23/inch, but uses brass rail >instead of ns. From what I've heard, ns is better. > > >I can't help wondering how much cheaper the ASG track would be if >they didn't color the rail. Rail has to be painted (weathered) for a >truly realistic look anyway, so blackening or anodizing the rail >seems like a wasted effort to me. Maybe it wouldn't make a >significant difference, I dunno. > > >Who'd have thought we'd one day have so many track options in S? > > >Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12278	From: budirusso@aol.com	Date: 3/20/2001
Subject: A.C. Gilbert catalog for sale

I want to alert the group of a great catalog I posted for sale on Ebay. It illustrates various trains, tracks, etc. It also has all of the microscopes, Erector sets, etc. by Gilbert if you are interested. I think this is a great historical resource for the collector. Let me know if you have any questions of if you want any research done before the sale ends. My seller name is marmardesign Thanks, Frank

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12279	From: John Foley	Date: 3/20/2001
Subject: Interesting Websites on Scranton PA.

Hi Folks Here are some websites on Scranton Pa. You may find interesting. http://www.northeast.railfan.net/scranton1997.gif http://www.northeast.railfan.net/scranton.html John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12280	From: louis glumac	Date: 3/20/2001
Subject: track fs

hi,anyone looking for some af black track i have some i am getting rid of,,,e mail me for your wants,,,,thanks lou. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12281	From: busyboy	Date: 3/20/2001
Subject: What is this?

I need a little help identifying a set of Flyer. I know that some of you guys really know your stuff, so a little help would be nice. This set has the little b2sb 0-6-0 switcher, numbered 21004, a Gulf tanker 24325, an 805 gondola, and a 24630 caboose. A 22004 transformer is included along with 22 curve and 8 straight track sections. Cardboard trestles are also in the set box. The box has no insert, so it is hard to be sure, but I'm guessing that this was a figure 8 set. By the engine and its numeration, I am figuring 1957 as the year of issue. Here is the conundrum. The set number on the box is 20175. The TM guide skips this set number, and no adjacent sets contain this equipment. It is not listed in the uncatalogued section either. The box is the later, white display style. Can anybody pinpoint this set a little more accurately? What is it? Thanks, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12282	From: Tom Stolte	Date: 3/20/2001
Subject: Oddballs Decals up and running again!!

The reply below is what I got back from Tripod today. Two of them believe it or not. The site is working now, seems like no files were lost. I just spent the last 2 hours downloading all my files. 12.4mb worth. Back them up on my hard drive, Zip Disk and CD. Well enought of this BS, now we all can calm down and get back with ours lifes till the next one happens again. Start talking trains, freight cars, etc. What ever turns your handle. Again, sorry for the cross posting. Subject: Your Tripod Membership Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:50:44 -0500 (EST) From: membership@... To: oddballdecal@... Dear Tripod Member, We apologize for the removal of your site over the weekend. Due to some technical errors, we mistakenly removed several member sites and are in the process of restoring them. We did not single out you or your site, please accept our apologies, your site has now been restored. Sincerely, The Tripod Team And....................................................................................... Subject: Tripod Account Restoration (KMM7762408C0KM) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 15:55:30 -0800 From: Tripod Support <membership@...> To: Tom Stolte <oddballdecal@...> Dear Tripod member: Over the past weekend, Tripod experienced a technical problem with one of our automated scripts. This error resulted in the removal of several legitimate member accounts. We assure you that your site was not singled out for any personal reason, nor was it deleted because of its subject matter. Bugs are indescriminate and target everyone equally, no matter who they are or what they are passionate about. We would like to take this opportunity to apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused you. We certainly understand how much time, effort and care goes into our members' sites, and are working steadily to reverse the problem. We have already begun the process of restoring Tripod accounts. We expect this to be complete within the next 48 hours. You will receive a confirmation email once your site has been restored. If you emailed Tripod concerning another service or abuse issue, we ask that you resubmit this request using one of the following addresses: Abuse issue: abuse@... General Questions: membership@... Thank you for your patience in this matter. We are grateful for your loyalty to the Tripod service and we value your membership. The Tripod Team -- Tom Stolte - Oddballs Decals N, HO, S & O Scale Model Railroad Decals 26550 227th Street; McLouth, Kansas 66054 Phone: 913-727-6649 - oddballdecal@... Web site http://www.oddballsdecals.com/ Subscribe: OddballsDecals-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Missouri Pacific Photos Web Page: http://www.trainweb.org/mopac/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12283	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 3/20/2001
Subject: Re: 944 Brownhoist Crane

anormal1@... wrote: > Hi guys, > Can someone let me know what the two steel plates and the > sliding bar under them on the underside of a 944 Brownhoist Crane are for??? > Thanks for your help....Results from the smoke test are comming in at this > time 11 out of about 35....varing opinonsMost adverse at this time,the > kerosene smell....working on that....the amt of smoke& viscosity / wicking > are agreeable.....Will have a second offering to test ....when ready i'll let > you know and any one that wants another sample of the second brew at no cost > (no postage even) .....Mike S. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ That is their simulation of an outrigger device. When properly blocked up from the ground, the crane could lift much heavier loads without risking a tipover. If you look at the outside ends of the sides, you'll see what appears to be a picket with an I-beam in it. That is also an outrigger. No real crane could work without them.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12284	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 3/20/2001
Subject: Re: 944 Brownhoist Crane

In a message dated 3/20/01 7:34:24 PM, ironhors@... writes: << > Hi guys, > Can someone let me know what the two steel plates and the > sliding bar under them on the underside of a 944 Brownhoist Crane are for??? > < That is their simulation of an outrigger device. When properly blocked up from the ground, the crane could lift much heavier loads without risking a tipover. If you look at the outside ends of the sides, you'll see what appears to be a picket with an I-beam in it. That is also an outrigger. No real crane could work without them. >> Yes, please look on page 22 of the 1951 (D1640) and page 25 of the 1952 (D1677) American Flyer catalogues. ("Note Jack Beam!"). RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12285	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/20/2001
Subject: Re: What is this?

Chris, Just a jumble of junk, I'll take it off your hands for 25, even pay the postage! The Tufts' set bible says this (which does indicate you have other than "normal" stuff in your set 1959 Promotional engine 21160 Cars 24110, 24325, 24630 Track 20 curve, 6 Straight 2 Pow-r-clips 22004 tranny and a 770 trestle set S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12286	From: Peck	Date: 3/20/2001
Subject: Re: Beacons

<<Just bought a 769A aircraft beacon and haven't gotten the top to rotate yet. I'm not sure if the top is original or not but AFAIK it's original. It appears to be unused. Most of the vanes in the top were not bent down at all. I've tried bending them down various amounts but not too far down. So far, haven't gotten it to rotate on it's own. I've made sure the base is level and that the top is not dragging as it rotates. What's the secret? >> The "secret" is to replace both the top and the bulb with ones that DO work. The original AF beacon tops are too heavy, and many of the repro bulbs on the market have very poor dimples. Combine the two, and it won't spin....even if on its own dedicated small transformer (which we always recommend). Our repro tops are actually MARX tops (sorry!), but they DO work, and when used with OUR bulb, we guarantee it will work or we'll buy them back! Top and bulb = $8.00 + sh. Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12287	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/20/2001
Subject: Re: 944 Brownhoist Crane

Hi I know what outriggers are and what they are for....I should have asked my question a little differently.... The two metal plates on the bottom is really what was in question....I thought that they were for some sort of trip device or something like that as they were not painted ,also pretty hefty for a model....Thank all who have responded to my question....Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12288	From: Ted Weiler	Date: 3/20/2001
Subject: Re: American S Gauge track

The Trinity 'S' Scalers in Dallas uses AM code 148 weathered brass rail for our HiRail outside loop and NS code 100 for the inner loop. Over the years on a portable layout, they both are no bother. I personally have chosen the AM track for my home layout due to our experience with it. The club layout is stored in an open warehouse between shows and needs only minor work before running trains. The brass works very well for us. Do not hesitate to use it based on other brass rail, this is better! Ted Weiler

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12289	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 3/20/2001
Subject: Re: 944 Brownhoist Crane

The plates hold the outrigger, which can be missing. anormal1@... wrote: > > Hi I know what outriggers are and what they are for....I should have > asked my question a little differently.... The two metal plates on the bottom > is really what was in question....I thought that they were for some sort of > trip device or something like that as they were not painted ,also pretty > hefty for a model....Thank all who have responded to my question....Mike S. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12290	From: David	Date: 3/20/2001
Subject: Re: What is this?

Chris, my database shows that set as follows: #20175 Uncataloged 1957 21160 Atlantic w/tender 24110 PRR Gondola (Early Sets Substituted 805) 24325 Gulf Tank (Early Sets Substituted 925) 24630 AFL Caboose 22004 Transformer 747 Trestle Set Circle of track w/2 straight sections Manual Uncoupler Track Clip All the contents are correct except the loco. Sounds like its possible that the Atlantic died or was broken, and was replaced with the better 0-6-0, or maybe the loco was swapped at purchase to please the customer.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12291	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/20/2001
Subject: Re: 944 Brownhoist Crane

Mike Yep, those bottom plates are only to keep the jack beam in place. Put on after the body is painted, probably some left-overs from some other part, so the metal is thicker than might be used. Another example of attention to detail and "play value" by ACG. Cost extra to make that separate part, and the retaining pieces and the rivets and the time to assemble. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12292	From: busyboy	Date: 3/20/2001
Subject: Re: What is this?

My thanks to everybody who replied to my query on this set. Mr. Bubeck and Mr. Dewey hit it on the head, thanks to Mr. Tuft's bible. The set is an uncatalogued Atlantic cheapie that has had the engine switched out. Had the 0-6-0 been the right engine for the set, TM books would probably have considered this a desirable item. With the 21160 Atlantic in place this is just another common, plain Jane set. What amazes me is that Gilbert found a reason to make so many redundant cheapie sets where a gondola was substituted for a hopper and a reefer for a boxcar. It is even more amazing that these would be uncatalogued, as if they were something special. I cannot help but think that for some special order that needed filling, say, 100 sets for a small hardware chain promotion, that Gilbert concocted an almost infinite variety of small sets that varied just enough from the catalogued production to defend wide differences in price and deep retailer discounts without conflicting with the established catalog prices. Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12293	From: R2724@AOL.COM	Date: 3/20/2001
Subject: PORTALS

Can anyone tell me the correct inside dementions of an "s gauge" portal? Rich R.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12294	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 3/21/2001
Subject: serif or sans-serif PULLMAN

Which is correct for maroon/red bakelite (solid, not painted) 65X heavy weight passenger cars? I've noticed some with serif lettered PULLMAN and others with clearly san serif PULLMAN. Did ACG manufacture them both ways, or is one likely relettered vs the other? Thanks for your help. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12295	From: Howell S Jobbins	Date: 3/21/2001
Subject: Re: 944 Brownhoist Crane

Dave, I also would guess, that the "Jack Beam" would slide in and out more smoothly on a plated surface. Steve J.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12296	From: Howell S Jobbins	Date: 3/21/2001
Subject: Re: What is this?

I think it was a smart use of inventory, and didn't run into specially large quantities of single road items. Especaially if sets might need to be taken back if unsold at xmas. Steve J

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12297	From: Neimanis,V. [NCR]	Date: 3/21/2001
Subject: Re: Bending Gargraves

Instead of car tire and water heaters, to help get a variety of curves I created a set of templates of various radii out of foam core (signboards or heavy cardboard would do). To outline their radii I used a yard stick as a large compass and drilled a small holes in its centre enough for a pencil lead to show through and pivoted the rig from a fixed centre point to get the curve. Then, reusing this rig using an exacto knife on the end to cut the foam core. Now using these templates carefully and progressively start curving the track along the desired template and adjust the moving rail ties to ensure a "smooth curve"; careful watch for potential kinks. Finally, cut the ends square using a dremel and fasten on top of roadbed with a small centre screw (predrilled hole)in the ties as needed. Hope this helps, I worked for me. V. Neimanis

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12298	From: Bill Porter	Date: 3/21/2001
Subject: Re: PORTALS

Rich, this is a dandy of a question. There is no simple, standard answer. The biggest issue is whether or not the tunnel entrance is on a curve or tangent. If tangent track, you can get by with 3 inches or so, provided you place your track precisely in the center of the opening. If on or near a curve, the opening must be wider. You need to consider a couple of things. If you run long equipment, the center of the items will be inside of the inside rail. Just how far inside depends on the curvature of the track and the distance between the the trucks. The other thing is the outside overhang caused by the parts of the car or loco beyond the truck mounting point. Those parts (especially on a long steamer) will swing outside of the curved track. Your best bet is to lay the track and then slowly run your longest equipment past the point at which you will place the portal. Look straight down and mark the extremes - both inside and outside - of the equipment as it traverses the area. Then allow another 1/4 inch on each side to be safe. Preserve the marks on the subroadbed so that you can properly place the portal when you are done. Do the same thing with the equipment that has the longest parts outside of the truck mounting points. Often we place a tunnel entrance on tangent track, then start a curve as soon as we get inside of the mountain. That means the portal is really on a curve since the leading end of a car going in will be curving while the trailing end has not yet arrived. Good Luck, Bill Porter -----Original Message----- From: R2724@... <R2724@...> To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Date: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 12:43 AM Subject: [S-Trains] PORTALS >Can anyone tell me the correct inside dementions of an "s gauge" >portal? > Rich R. > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12299	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 3/21/2001
Subject: rotating beacon

I use a Marx, oh horrors. I found the following make a difference (these are a bit tempermental, if you want more reliable rotation under a wider range of circumstances go with a vibrating type just be sure the little rubber nubn's are fresh) - bulb (need well formed, clean, centered dimple), top (the lighter Marx works better that heavier original ACG), vanes (I tweaked mine so the last third or so bends parallel to the gound, need to strike the right balance between enough opening for warm air flow versus forward force it exerts on each vane), air currents in the room (these get upset by drafts pretty easily), pin sharpness (I use downward strokes of a jewelers file in the tip now and then to increase sharpness of the tip), voltage (go with a full 16V), train activity on the layout (mine always spins its best when the trains are running, just that bit of extra kinetic energy imparted to it helps), balance and position of the top on the bulb (centerered and level, gently push the pin either toward the green or red lens until it positions correctly), level of the tower (the more level the better). A friend of mine also says the temperature and humidity of the ambient air affects performance. Could be, I haven't observed that yet. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12300	From: The McColds	Date: 3/21/2001
Subject: "American Flyer S Gauge 1946-2000"

I recently asked the list for comments about the book, "American Flyer S Gauge 1946- 2000; A TM Illustrated Price Guide and History." for the benefit of others who might be interested in the book, I am posting the replies I got to my question. I have deleted the names of those who made the comments: 1. my opinion only....It not only is worth the $ but might give you some insight as to the market prices today......greenburgs is a little out dated IMO 2. the new'ish TM price and rarity guide is a good book. Its values are a little more in line with what you actually see out on auctions and at better shows. These values are a little high as opposed to Greenbergs which are pathetically low, especially for accessories. However, many people do not understand, (or read the front of the book), that these TM values represent items in truly Excellent condition, not sliders and lesser grades. Truly Excellent and better items do not usually show up much these days, and it is a pitfall to me because one knows that these numbers will be abused by the sellers either through greed or naivete, and they are. With that aside, the book is very informative. They have a rarity grading system incorporated that shows you how scarce a piece really is, and makes you look again to see what the difference is that makes it so, so you know what to look for. There is also a trend indicator which is an up or down arrow. If an items popularity is going up, it gets an up arrow. If its going down it gets a down arrow. If its relatively stable it gets no arrow. The middle is full of high quality photos, some of which are of rather scarce items. But they really do show the quality of item they are applying the values to, so its important to see that and make the correlation. They also list some sets data too, but its not nearly a complete listing, and I don't believe they do any uncataloged sets. The only negative I see for me at least is that the book is laid out by item type. IE: Box cars are all together then listed numerically within that group, then tank cars etc. When looking for a value you need to keep flipping through to find the chapter you need before you can look for a number. This is frustrating especially if your at a show and in a bit of a hurry to check an item. The back of the book is filled with needless stories by unknown individuals, and I thought this was a waste of paper and time. The only pitfall that seems to be heard from others outwardly is that although its supposed to be a "Pocket" guide, its too big to fit in your pocket and use at shows. You would need to carry it in your bag or by hand. So that's all I can say. 3. I own a copy, I think the pictures alone are worth the price. 4. The TM book is excellent - worth every penny. Contact the s-trains list sponsor www.americanflyertrains.com and you might be able to save a buck or two. Thanks to all who took time to offer advice. Lance McCold

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12301	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/21/2001
Subject: Re: What is this?

Chris, As in any business, you often have specific items that don't sell well, and the stock sits around. ACG's solution to this was to package the left-overs into "special deal sets" (or Promotionals). As these set were designed to use up stuff, often items were substituted. The catalog sets were held to what was shown in the catalog to avoid complaints (though sometimes substitutes did happen anyway). Then there were marketing tests, such as the Scene-a-Rama set, (also marked as "Dept. Store Special") to see if an idea was good. (In this case, a trial run of the All Aboard idea, though not as complex as the all aboard panels became). S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12302	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 3/21/2001
Subject: Re: 944 Brownhoist Crane

Perhaps the best place to see the A/F Brownhoist crane in use is at the National Toy Train Museum in Strasburg Pa. The crane is displayed front and center on the S-Gauge layout as part of a PRR wreck train, lifting a New Haven boxcar that had gone astray. The obligatory crew and "daisy pickers" are there as well. Jim Lyle [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12303	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 3/21/2001
Subject: Talking station

Does anyone have a reproducer for a 755 for sale?Are they being repro'ed?Keith _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12304	From: Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S.	Date: 3/21/2001
Subject: [Commercial] New Products Status

Howdy Friends Baldwin 2-8-0 #42 kits and semi-kits left New Zealand last night so they will be safely out of the way of the falling MIR fireball on Friday. The crate should arrive here in Tampa on Monday and be on the way to you on Tuesday. R-T-R #41 and #42 locos are nearing completion! #43 kits will be on the way soon. Our caster has finished the molds for the BL2 and our sample is on the way here for the final inspection. Once we have these body parts, we can finish up the instructions and get these out to you! We are offering this undec loco kit in two versions - without the American Models trucks and motor and with them. Prices: #06400 BL2 Kit w/o mechanism is $169.95, and #06500 BL2 Kit with mechanism is $269.95. Orders are now being accepted with delivery scheduled for mid-April. The Cabin Creek Coal Tipple is nearly ready. Been cutting and packing parts for weeks now, and am making the final changes to the instructions as I build the sample model. Hard to believe I would ever say, "damn, I've got another model to build," but with all the new stuff we have coming, that is now the case! Got yours ordered? All for now! Thanks, and take care, Bill PS - Only have two 0-6-0 and two #41 2-8-0 kits left in stock! -- =============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12305	From: busyboy	Date: 3/21/2001
Subject: OO gauge on e-Bay

For the person who asked: Toys & Hobbies > Hobbies: Model RR, Trains > Scales > OO Still no S. Thanks, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12306	From: Douglass Allen	Date: 3/21/2001
Subject: another just a story

Bob reminded me of my vacation in 99 to Colorado. We rode 6 trains in 8 days. One was naturally the Durango & Silverton. As chance would have it we were in the first car behind the engine. When ready to depart they naturally blew the whistle, which admittedly was loud at a distance of 20 feet. Still when the rider in the seat in front of me said to his co-rider : "We should have brought ear plugs." I could have grabbed him by the lapels and thrown him off the train. That whistle was what I drove 1500 miles to hear, and the louder the better. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12307	From: busyboy	Date: 3/21/2001
Subject: e-Bay categories

I just sent this to e-Bay. You can too. Just go here and follow the steps. http://pages.ebay.com/help/basics/select-support.html Choose "Suggetions" and "Category Suggestion". Dear eBay Support: If you go here: http://listings.ebay.com/aw/plistings/list/all/category483/index.html You will find categories for all scales of model railroads, EXCEPT "S". You might argue that 3/16" to the foot, 1/64th. of reality, S scale is such a minority that there is no need to incorporate it. I might agree, but you see fit to include "Z", "OO" and "TT" gauges. All of these added together would only represent a fraction of the items in "S" already being listed on eBay. Of course, those of us who try to find items for sale must use a panoply of searches on "American Flyer", "S-Scale", "S-Gauge", and the misspelled "S-Guage". I also have searches under all the known manufacturers names, and under clever abbreviations, which invariably swamp me in unrelated products, requiring me to modify the search with many "but nots". For example, my search on "AF", the abbreviation for American Flyer which is used by many sellers, looks like this: AF -(Canon,Nikon,Nikkor,Tokina,Camera,Olympus,Lens,Minolta,Contax,Minox,Pent acon,Zoom,Converter,AM) Wouldn't you be doing a large number of your customers a good turn by including S gauge on your model railroad gauges listing? I think so. Thanks, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12308	From: Rick Evans	Date: 3/21/2001
Subject: Re: "American Flyer S Gauge 1946-2000"

***(((( IE: Box cars are all together then listed numerically within that group, then tank cars etc. When looking for a value you need to keep flipping through to find the chapter you need before you can look for a number. This is frustrating especially if your at a show and in a bit of a hurry to check an item.)))*** All the items are listed in the back of the TM book,...I just look up the number and then go right to the page. Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12309	From: The_maurers	Date: 3/21/2001
Subject: Wheel Insulator Replacement (0-8-0)

I need to replace one or more wheel insulators on my 343 0-8-0. 1. Do I need a special wheel puller for the small wheels on this engine, or will the one described in Tom Barker's repair manual work? 2. Do you need to glue the replacment insulator to the wheel assembly or does it just snap altogether? If yes, is there a special glue to use? 3. Is a vise essential for putting the wheels back on or is there another method? Any other tips you can offer, I'd appreciate. Thanks. Rich Maurer Auburn, AL

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12310	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 3/21/2001
Subject: Re: [Commercial] New Products Status

Will they have a frame even though they do not have trucks and motor??? Larry "Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S." wrote: > > Howdy Friends > > Baldwin 2-8-0 #42 kits and semi-kits left New Zealand last night so they > will be safely out of the way of the falling MIR fireball on Friday. The > crate should arrive here in Tampa on Monday and be on the way to you on > Tuesday. R-T-R #41 and #42 locos are nearing completion! #43 kits will > be on the way soon. > > Our caster has finished the molds for the BL2 and our sample is on the > way here for the final inspection. Once we have these body parts, we can > finish up the instructions and get these out to you! We are offering > this undec loco kit in two versions - without the American Models trucks > and motor and with them. Prices: #06400 BL2 Kit w/o mechanism is > $169.95, and #06500 BL2 Kit with mechanism is $269.95. Orders are now > being accepted with delivery scheduled for mid-April. > > The Cabin Creek Coal Tipple is nearly ready. Been cutting and packing > parts for weeks now, and am making the final changes to the instructions > as I build the sample model. Hard to believe I would ever say, "damn, > I've got another model to build," but with all the new stuff we have > coming, that is now the case! Got yours ordered? > > All for now! > > Thanks, and take care, > Bill > > PS - Only have two 0-6-0 and two #41 2-8-0 kits left in stock! > -- > =============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ > Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer > Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 > B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com > S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com > Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12311	From: gino restivo	Date: 3/21/2001
Subject: Re: Talking station

still in process to be completed , gsr , when done it will be posted / or to who you can buy from ..... gsr , -----Original Message----- From: Keith Kuzma <keithkuzma@...> To: S-trains@yahoogroups.com <S-trains@yahoogroups.com> Date: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 12:47 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Talking station >Does anyone have a reproducer for a 755 for sale?Are they being >repro'ed?Keith >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Shop online without a credit card http://www.rocketcash.com RocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12312	From: rlbelyea@msn.com	Date: 3/21/2001
Subject: Repair Parts

Has anyone in this Group ordered repair parts from "TOY TRAIN PARTS", Louisville,Ky. 1. Do they provide satisfactory service? 2. Are there any other online sites where repair parts can be ordered? Robert B.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12313	From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade	Date: 3/21/2001
Subject: Re: [Commercial] New Products Status

lawrence jackman wrote: > > Will they have a frame even though they do not have trucks and > motor??? > Larry > > "Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S." wrote: > > > > Howdy Friends (snip) > > Our caster has finished the molds for the BL2 and our sample is on the > > way here for the final inspection. Once we have these body parts, we can > > finish up the instructions and get these out to you! We are offering > > this undec loco kit in two versions - without the American Models trucks > > and motor and with them. Prices: #06400 BL2 Kit w/o mechanism is > > $169.95, and #06500 BL2 Kit with mechanism is $269.95. Orders are now > > being accepted with delivery scheduled for mid-April. (snip) Yep. Kit #06400 has everything, body, frame, fuel tank, details, etc., except the AM motor, universals, two gear towers and sideframes. We figure there are more than a few folks out there who have a basket case FP to use for the drive. Take care, Bill -- =============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12314	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 3/21/2001
Subject: Hvywt lettering

My books show photos of serif and san serif lettering. San serif seems most prevalent on early red painted heavyweights (in '48 sets) with PULLMAN centered across the top and 65X on each end of the car. Serif appears often on solid bakelite cars that also have PULLMAN, but just one 65X centered under the windows. Then san serif reappears on later models with American Flyer Lines across the top. -------------------------- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld (www.BlackBerry.net) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12315	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 3/22/2001
Subject: Talking station reproducer

Does anyone have one for sale,or know where I can get one?Thanks Keith _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12316	From: IronHorse	Date: 3/22/2001
Subject: TRIPOD train sites

For those that are having problems with losing your train site at TRIPOD.COM : membership@... wrote: > Dear Tripod member: > > Over the past weekend, Tripod experienced a technical problem with one of our automated > scripts. This error resulted in the removal of several legitimate member accounts. We > assure you that your site was not singled out for any personal reason, nor was it deleted > because of its subject matter. Bugs are indescriminate and target everyone equally, no > matter who they are or what they are passionate about. > > We would like to take this opportunity to apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused > you. We certainly understand how much time, effort and care goes into our members' sites, and > are working steadily to reverse the problem. > > We have already begun the process of restoring Tripod accounts. We expect this to be complete > within the next 48 hours. You will receive a confirmation email once your site has been > restored. > > If you emailed Tripod concerning another service or abuse issue, we ask that you resubmit this > request using one of the following addresses: > Abuse issue: abuse@... > General Questions: membership@... > > Thank you for your patience in this matter. We are grateful for your loyalty to the Tripod > service and we value your membership. > > The Tripod Team [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12317	From: sigma@ecn.ab.ca	Date: 3/22/2001
Subject: Re: Yahoo

Does anyone have a phone number for Yahoo? I can't get through by e mail. Joe Pereira email: sigma@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12318	From: Velapoldi's	Date: 3/22/2001
Subject: Western Maryland Area

Hi all: Though I left eastern Maryland for Norway, just wanted to remind you of the Western Maryland Scenic Railroad that goes from Cumberland Md. to Frostburg. Interesting website at <www.wmsr.com> which gives info on rides, various types of special events (who dunnit mystery trips, dinner trips, etc.). Has anyone taken a ride on the slightly larger than s-gauge steam train? Any good or bad things to report? Rance

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12319	From: David A. Highfield	Date: 3/22/2001
Subject: Re: Western Maryland Area

The Western Md. Scenic RR is a wonderful trip. Make sure the steam train is running and then plan to get soot in your eyes on the trip up the mountain if you stand behind the tender. The Cumberland and Frostburg stations are great renovations. The highlight is the turntable in Frostburg...take a camera to catch the action as the locomotive is turned for the trip back to Cumberland. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Velapoldi's" <velapoldi@...> To: "strains" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>; "Sscale" <S-Scale@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 4:04 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Western Maryland Area > Hi all: > Though I left eastern Maryland for Norway, just wanted to remind you of > the Western Maryland Scenic Railroad that goes from Cumberland Md. to > Frostburg. Interesting website at <www.wmsr.com> which gives info on > rides, various types of special events (who dunnit mystery trips, dinner > trips, etc.). Has anyone taken a ride on the slightly larger than > s-gauge steam train? Any good or bad things to report? > Rance > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12320	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/22/2001
Subject: 1946 - 2000 GUIDE

I don't know why they cant put the prices in the index....The # for the car is there it would expand the book by 4 pages max like below: ITEM# PAGE 715 $ 85-150 (2-3) 23 716 $45-65 (2-2+) 29 717 $55-65 (2-2+) 24 The rare rating could be omited but it would give you a quick reference the items with no var. of course would only have a single price value Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12321	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/22/2001
Subject: NORTHERN 4-8-4

Did any of the 4-8-4 Northerns come with knuckle couplers......I'd like to see one with The new AM Budd cars In UP Yellow (sort of the reason I'm letting go of my other Flyer)....IMO I think they could sell a lot of their cars if they were shown being pulled by a Pacific, Hudson, or Northern Or am I not in the right era???.....Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12322	From: SMITTY@tir.com	Date: 3/22/2001
Subject: 343 wheels

From: "The_maurers" <The_Maurers@e...> Date: Thu Mar 22, 2001 1:36am Subject: Wheel Insulator Replacement (0-8-0) I need to replace one or more wheel insulators on my 343 0-8-0. 1. Do I need a special wheel puller for the small wheels on this engine, or will the one described in Tom Barker's repair manual work? 2. Do you need to glue the replacment insulator to the wheel assembly or does it just snap altogether? If yes, is there a special glue to use? 3. Is a vise essential for putting the wheels back on or is there another method? Any other tips you can offer, I'd appreciate. Thanks. Rich Maurer Auburn, AL Rich.........the puller in Barker's manual is a modified car battery terminal clamp puller, and as such it doesn't close in enough so that the feet ground or filed into the ends of the arms can grip the smaller wheels. Maybe one of the supply houses ( like D. Peck ) has a specially made puller for these smaller wheels. Above all, don't lose the orientation of the wheel on the axle, otherwise the quartering will be gone and you run the risk of your rods binding as the wheels go around. Unless you really have to pull the wheels off, don't. You should be able to, if the insulators are loose, be able to reglue them in place. In my experience, it's usually the steel tire that's loose from the insulator, and not the insulator from the wheel. If this is the case, you can use a fine tip applicator to get a bit of lacquer thinner into the gap between the tire and the insulator and get the surfaces clean enough. Once dry, carefully apply your glue to the joint and rotate and wobble the tire around to distribute the glue and you should be all set. The white-wall insulator, if it's like what's used on it's bigger AF cousins needs to be glued. I'd reccomend staying away from "superglues", they generally don't give you enough time to position and double check position before they set up. Go to your local automotive supply or sometiimes even a good hardware will have a Permatex product called 'LocTite ", it's an industrial anerobic adhesive used for locking in bearing races, bolts or studs into machine assemblies. It comes in different strengths, look for the "service removable" variety. There's others, but this will be more than adequate for the job. The advantage of these adhesives is that they don't set up instantly, they give you time to position and double check. They also, in my experience, perform better than the usual "super glue". Any bearing retainer-type or thread-locker of anerobic will work, LocTite is the most common in my area. The key to whatever brand you use is to make sure the mating surfaces are CLEAN. Use a little lacquer thinner to get rid of any surface contaminants, ( oils from lubing the axles, even from your fingers ) keep wiping until your swab is clean. A vice, IMHO, is required. Otherwise you end up running the risk of crooked wheels, if you try and drive the wheels onto the axle using a drift pin, you may, unless VERY careful, mush over the edge of the hole in the wheel and it looks sloppy when done. If you have access to a small bench-top arbor press, there's another possibility, but not many home hobbiests have these and good ones are more expensive than a decent vice ( which can be used for many more jobs than an arbor press can ). Regard"S", Smitty

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12323	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/22/2001
Subject: WHEELPULLER

I have found that a cheap whellpuller is one from the plumbing section of any do it center $8.... They are used for pulling off valve handles....Mike S

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12324	From: aztecfan@yahoo.com	Date: 3/22/2001
Subject: $1 for 12 trees and 12 fenses

The discount toy stores sell a bag of solders for $1. Cut the leaves off the trees, paint and add Woodlands Foliage Clusters Medium Green FC58 for $6 and you will have great trees. Cut off bob wire from fensed and you will have a nice row in S Scale. Jim Sleeth

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12325	From: aztecfan@yahoo.com	Date: 3/22/2001
Subject: Marx 333 3/16

Help. Is it a Hudson. I need 2 pieces of Marx Linkage. I want to add a 283 drive train. Will have to cut off part of the inside cab supports. Has any one done this? I want to know if AF Hudson valve gear will fit a 283 frame. I am detailing a Plastic Pasific. I think I can use the valve gear from the Mark and attach on the center AF driver if I can find the missing linkage. If not perhaps I can use some S scale valve gear, AF Atlatic or Bullet nose or even Rex. It took me 8 years to find this Marx engine. It looks like the AF 283 will fit, but if not makeing it a DC can motor hot rod may be then anwser. Can any one make a mold of this engine for others to enjoy. So if any one know what type of engine this is and what type of valve gear it needs let me know. Marx did a good job on this, so it might have the correct valve gear and I may try and reproduce from parts. The AF K4 may be the right type. I think I heard Doug Peck has new AF hudson valve gear. If so will it fit the AF 283 frame. I would use it on my Pacific if I can find away to attach. Guys we have a lot of broke 4-6-2 drive trains that can be used for can motor conversions. I would love to build a Scale steem engine kit. I am very disapointed that we do not have articles on detailing Plastic Atlantics and Pacifics from S detail suppliers. It just takes to much time to try and figure out how to do this stuff on ones own, when someone has done it some were using off the shelf parts. I want to find new wheels as well. I have cut down stoke battery engine whhels taht could be used as in certs on AF tires. New wheel types would sure cange the look of AF engines. Jim Sleeth

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12326	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 3/22/2001
Subject: NORTHERN 4-8-4

All of the AF Northerns from the K335 on have knuckle couplers. That covers most of the S gauge Northerns that Gilbert built. Back in the days when SHS and AM were working together, they came out with heavyweight passenger cars in various road names, all chosen (apparently) to match Gilbert steam engines, Alcos, and EP-5s. The AM/SHS ads conspicuously displayed AF steamers pulling matching consists of the (then) new AM passenger cars. (I have a set of the UP cars m'self. They look great behind my 336 Northern.) Since then however, AM has broadened their line of diesels, and they have a couple of steamers as well, so they might not be too anxious to use up ad space to show off AF locos. It's probably not necessary anyway. We AF guys pick up on those associations pretty quickly. (Don't we?) Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12327	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 3/23/2001
Subject: Re: East Coast Hobby Show

This weekend (tomorrow, Sunday and Monday for hobby shops only!). We will have our layout as well as displaying and selling our products at the East Coast Hobby Show (Ft. Washington, PA, 9 AM to 5 PM). In two weeks we will be at the Great Scale Show in Timonium, MD. -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New 2nd run reefers are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12328	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 3/23/2001
Subject: Re: East Coast Hobby Show

As I re-read my e-mail, Saturday and Sunday the show is open to all, only Monday is for the trade (Hobby Shops) Don Robin Thompson wrote: > This weekend (tomorrow, Sunday and Monday for hobby shops only!). > We will have our layout as well as displaying and selling our products > at the East Coast Hobby Show (Ft. Washington, PA, 9 AM to 5 PM). > In two weeks we will be at the Great Scale Show in Timonium, MD. > -- Don Thompson > S Helper Service Inc. > http://www.showcaseline.com > 1.800.465.0303 > New 2nd run reefers are now shipping! > http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New 2nd run reefers are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12329	From: jd	Date: 3/23/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 953

Jim Contact Steve at Boss31@... He has some great Ideas and reasonable Can motor conversion Kits you know the Guy He made that great video a couple months Back! Hope this Helps John <jde> Oh yeah Chuck"s another fella he converted a 4-6-2 to a Great northerner sorry I haven't his address But im sure you can dig it up their is a picture of his Great Northerner on the S guage Listings Page . S-Trains@yahoogroups.com wrote: > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > There are 12 messages in this issue. > > Topics in this digest: > > 1. Talking station reproducer > From: "Keith Kuzma" <keithkuzma@...> > 2. TRIPOD train sites > From: IronHorse <cofa@...> > 3. Re: Yahoo > From: sigma@... > 4. Western Maryland Area > From: Velapoldi's <velapoldi@...> > 5. Re: Western Maryland Area > From: "David A. Highfield" <davidh@...> > 6. 1946 - 2000 GUIDE > From: anormal1@... > 7. NORTHERN 4-8-4 > From: anormal1@... > 8. 343 wheels > From: SMITTY@... > 9. WHEELPULLER > From: anormal1@... > 10. $1 for 12 trees and 12 fenses > From: aztecfan@... > 11. Marx 333 3/16 > From: aztecfan@... > 12. NORTHERN 4-8-4 > From: eighthmile@... > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 08:10:52 -0600 > From: "Keith Kuzma" <keithkuzma@...> > Subject: Talking station reproducer > > Does anyone have one for sale,or know where I can get one?Thanks Keith > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 10:27:17 -0500 > From: IronHorse <cofa@...> > Subject: TRIPOD train sites > > For those that are having problems with losing your train site > at TRIPOD.COM : > > membership@... wrote: > > > Dear Tripod member: > > > > Over the past weekend, Tripod experienced a technical problem with one of our automated > > scripts. This error resulted in the removal of several legitimate member accounts. We > > assure you that your site was not singled out for any personal reason, nor was it deleted > > because of its subject matter. Bugs are indescriminate and target everyone equally, no > > matter who they are or what they are passionate about. > > > > We would like to take this opportunity to apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused > > you. We certainly understand how much time, effort and care goes into our members' sites, and > > are working steadily to reverse the problem. > > > > We have already begun the process of restoring Tripod accounts. We expect this to be complete > > within the next 48 hours. You will receive a confirmation email once your site has been > > restored. > > > > If you emailed Tripod concerning another service or abuse issue, we ask that you resubmit this > > request using one of the following addresses: > > Abuse issue: abuse@... > > General Questions: membership@... > > > > Thank you for your patience in this matter. We are grateful for your loyalty to the Tripod > > service and we value your membership. > > > > The Tripod Team > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 08:59:57 -0700 (MST) > From: sigma@... > Subject: Re: Yahoo > > Does anyone have a phone number for Yahoo? I can't get through by e mail. > Joe Pereira > > email: sigma@... > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 22:04:08 +0100 > From: Velapoldi's <velapoldi@...> > Subject: Western Maryland Area > > Hi all: > Though I left eastern Maryland for Norway, just wanted to remind you of > the Western Maryland Scenic Railroad that goes from Cumberland Md. to > Frostburg. Interesting website at <www.wmsr.com> which gives info on > rides, various types of special events (who dunnit mystery trips, dinner > trips, etc.). Has anyone taken a ride on the slightly larger than > s-gauge steam train? Any good or bad things to report? > Rance > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 16:42:35 -0500 > From: "David A. Highfield" <davidh@...> > Subject: Re: Western Maryland Area > > The Western Md. Scenic RR is a wonderful trip. Make sure the steam train is > running and then plan to get soot in your eyes > on the trip up the mountain if you stand behind the tender. The Cumberland > and Frostburg stations are great renovations. The highlight is the turntable > in Frostburg...take a camera to catch the action as the locomotive is turned > for the trip back to Cumberland. > Dave > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Velapoldi's" <velapoldi@...> > To: "strains" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>; "Sscale" <S-Scale@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 4:04 PM > Subject: [S-Trains] Western Maryland Area > > > Hi all: > > Though I left eastern Maryland for Norway, just wanted to remind you of > > the Western Maryland Scenic Railroad that goes from Cumberland Md. to > > Frostburg. Interesting website at <www.wmsr.com> which gives info on > > rides, various types of special events (who dunnit mystery trips, dinner > > trips, etc.). Has anyone taken a ride on the slightly larger than > > s-gauge steam train? Any good or bad things to report? > > Rance > > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 18:06:35 EST > From: anormal1@... > Subject: 1946 - 2000 GUIDE > > I don't know why they cant put the prices in the index....The # for the car > is there it would expand the book by 4 pages max like below: > > ITEM# PAGE > > > 715 $ 85-150 (2-3) 23 > 716 $45-65 (2-2+) 29 > 717 $55-65 (2-2+) 24 > > > The rare rating could be omited but it would give you a quick reference > the items with no var. of course would only have a single price value > > Mike S. > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 7 > Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 18:31:03 EST > From: anormal1@... > Subject: NORTHERN 4-8-4 > > Did any of the 4-8-4 Northerns come with knuckle couplers......I'd like to > see one with The new AM Budd cars In UP Yellow (sort of the reason I'm > letting go of my other Flyer)....IMO I think they could sell a lot of their > cars if they were shown being pulled by a Pacific, Hudson, or Northern Or am > I not in the right era???.....Mike S. > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 8 > Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 23:49:04 -0000 > From: SMITTY@... > Subject: 343 wheels > > From: "The_maurers" <The_Maurers@e...> > Date: Thu Mar 22, 2001 1:36am > Subject: Wheel Insulator Replacement (0-8-0) > > > I need to replace one or more wheel insulators on my 343 0-8-0. > 1. Do I need a special wheel puller for the small wheels on this > engine, or > will the one described in Tom Barker's repair manual work? > 2. Do you need to glue the replacment insulator to the wheel > assembly or > does it just snap altogether? If yes, is there a special glue to use? > 3. Is a vise essential for putting the wheels back on or is there > another > method? > > Any other tips you can offer, I'd appreciate. Thanks. > > Rich Maurer > Auburn, AL > > Rich.........the puller in Barker's manual is a modified car battery > terminal clamp puller, and as such it doesn't close in enough so that > the feet ground or filed into the ends of the arms can grip the > smaller wheels. Maybe one of the supply houses ( like D. Peck ) has > a specially made puller for these smaller wheels. Above all, don't > lose the orientation of the wheel on the axle, otherwise the > quartering will be gone and you run the risk of your rods binding as > the wheels go around. > > Unless you really have to pull the wheels off, don't. You should be > able to, if the insulators are loose, be able to reglue them in > place. In my experience, it's usually the steel tire that's loose > from the insulator, and not the insulator from the wheel. If this is > the case, you can use a fine tip applicator to get a bit of lacquer > thinner into the gap between the tire and the insulator and get the > surfaces clean enough. Once dry, carefully apply your glue to the > joint and rotate and wobble the tire around to distribute the glue > and you should be all set. > > The white-wall insulator, if it's like what's used on it's bigger AF > cousins needs to be glued. I'd reccomend staying away > from "superglues", they generally don't give you enough time to > position and double check position before they set up. Go to your > local automotive supply or sometiimes even a good hardware will have > a Permatex product called 'LocTite ", it's an industrial anerobic > adhesive used for locking in bearing races, bolts or studs into > machine assemblies. It comes in different strengths, look for > the "service removable" variety. There's others, but this will be > more than adequate for the job. The advantage of these adhesives is > that they don't set up instantly, they give you time to position and > double check. They also, in my experience, perform better than the > usual "super glue". Any bearing retainer-type or thread-locker of > anerobic will work, LocTite is the most common in my area. The key > to whatever brand you use is to make sure the mating surfaces are > CLEAN. Use a little lacquer thinner to get rid of any surface > contaminants, ( oils from lubing the axles, even from your fingers ) > keep wiping until your swab is clean. > > A vice, IMHO, is required. Otherwise you end up running the risk of > crooked wheels, if you try and drive the wheels onto the axle using a > drift pin, you may, unless VERY careful, mush over the edge of the > hole in the wheel and it looks sloppy when done. If you have access > to a small bench-top arbor press, there's another possibility, but > not many home hobbiests have these and good ones are more expensive > than a decent vice ( which can be used for many more jobs than an > arbor press can ). > > Regard"S", > > Smitty > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 9 > Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 19:09:55 EST > From: anormal1@... > Subject: WHEELPULLER > > I have found that a cheap whellpuller is one from the plumbing section of > any do it center $8.... They are used for pulling off valve handles....Mike > S > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 10 > Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 02:15:33 -0000 > From: aztecfan@... > Subject: $1 for 12 trees and 12 fenses > > The discount toy stores sell a bag of solders for $1. Cut the leaves > off the trees, paint and add Woodlands Foliage Clusters Medium Green > FC58 for $6 and you will have great trees. Cut off bob wire from > fensed and you will have a nice row in S Scale. Jim Sleeth > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 11 > Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 02:32:44 -0000 > From: aztecfan@... > Subject: Marx 333 3/16 > > Help. Is it a Hudson. I need 2 pieces of Marx Linkage. > I want to add a 283 drive train. Will have to cut off part of the > inside cab supports. Has any one done this? > > I want to know if AF Hudson valve gear will fit a 283 frame. I am > detailing a Plastic Pasific. > I think I can use the valve gear from the Mark and attach on the > center AF driver if I can find the missing linkage. > If not perhaps I can use some S scale valve gear, AF Atlatic or > Bullet nose or even Rex. It took me 8 years to find this Marx engine. > It looks like the AF 283 will fit, but if not makeing it a DC can > motor hot rod may be then anwser. Can any one make a mold of this > engine for others to enjoy. > > So if any one know what type of engine this is and what type of valve > gear it needs let me know. Marx did a good job on this, so it might > have the correct valve gear and I may try and reproduce from parts. > The AF K4 may be the right type. I think I heard Doug Peck has new AF > hudson valve gear. If so will it fit the AF 283 frame. I would use > it on my Pacific if I can find away to attach. > Guys we have a lot of broke 4-6-2 drive trains that can be used for > can motor conversions. I would love to build a Scale steem engine > kit. I am very disapointed that we do not have articles on detailing > Plastic Atlantics and Pacifics from S detail suppliers. It just takes > to much time to try and figure out how to do this stuff on ones own, > when someone has done it some were using off the shelf parts. I want > to find new wheels as well. I have cut down stoke battery engine > whhels taht could be used as in certs on AF tires. New wheel types > would sure cange the look of AF engines. Jim Sleeth > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 12 > Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 07:09:34 -0000 > From: eighthmile@... > Subject: NORTHERN 4-8-4 > > All of the AF Northerns from the K335 on have knuckle couplers. That > covers most of the S gauge Northerns that Gilbert built. > > Back in the days when SHS and AM were working together, they came out > with heavyweight passenger cars in various road names, all chosen > (apparently) to match Gilbert steam engines, Alcos, and EP-5s. The > AM/SHS ads conspicuously displayed AF steamers pulling matching > consists of the (then) new AM passenger cars. (I have a set of the UP > cars m'self. They look great behind my 336 Northern.) > > Since then however, AM has broadened their line of diesels, and they > have a couple of steamers as well, so they might not be too anxious > to use up ad space to show off AF locos. It's probably not necessary > anyway. We AF guys pick up on those associations pretty quickly. > (Don't we?) > > Chuck F. > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12330	From: LEAHY RUTH A	Date: 3/23/2001
Subject: Trip to Europe

I am going to Amsterdam, Rome, Venice & Florence in the next week. Does anyone know of any can't miss shops that might deal in electric trains? Mike Leahy

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12331	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 3/23/2001
Subject: Western Maryland Scenic Railroad

About the Western Maryland Scenic Railroad, I can stand at my office window in Cumberland and see the steam engine at the station. I am regularly serenaded by the whistle, both at work and at home, which is also across from the station. A couple of years ago, I rode in the cab of the 2-8-0 to Frostburg and back. It was just a trip or two before the end of the season and before the engine was converted to stoker operation. It was quite a site to see the fireman picking up the coal, pivoting, stepping on the firebox door treadle, and then heaving the coal into the firebox. He was as graceful as a ballet dancer, but quicker. The trip has a lot of curves and rises hundreds of feet as it journeys to Frostburg. I was struck by the movement of the engine. The cab was thrusting side to side, while the entire engine seemed to be bobbing up and down. It was VERY forceful. I stood in back of the fireman's seat wedged against the side of the cab, but I still took many body slams. Even sitting in the fireman's seat on the way back to Cumberland did not fully diminish the force of the movement. It was an experience I'll never forget. Peter Ervin Cumberland, Maryland

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12332	From: neil.trump@bt.com	Date: 3/23/2001
Subject: Re: Trip to Europe

Mike, Can't help on the train front in Italy etc, but you'll enjoy the rest of the trip, especially a trip in a gondola in Venice, the nearest you will get to a train thrill! Neil T. England -----Original Message----- From: LEAHY RUTH A [mailto:ruth.leahy@...] Sent: 23 March 2001 13:23 To: S-Trains Subject: [S-Trains] Trip to Europe I am going to Amsterdam, Rome, Venice & Florence in the next week. Does anyone know of any can't miss shops that might deal in electric trains? Mike Leahy S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12333	From: Gerry Evans	Date: 3/23/2001
Subject: Re: Trip to Europe

MIKE: I've hunted for train shops in all four of those wonderful, historic places with no luck. Of course, that was about 14 years ago. If you get to Paris, however, there is a train shop that you can't miss called the Maison de Trains. It is a whole city block and, as I remember, about four stories tall--all filled with trains. The only thing I bought there was some Alpenbann O narrow gauge which, ironically, runs exactly on S gauge track. Gerry Evans

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12334	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 3/23/2001
Subject: removing white stuff

Thanks everyone for sending me your preferred method to remove that white mold-like stuff that some ACG AF units "grow" over the years. I worked on a heavily encrusted 65X chassis last night and thought I'd let you know which methods I tried and how well they worked. - isopropyl alcohol, no doubt removes the stuff but leaves some haze on the plastic. You can buff it off. - warm up and wipe off, works but time consuming especially with cars this badly afflicted, plus you must be careful to spread and maintain the heat properly. - 10:1 water to Murphy's Oil Soap, bingo, soak and gently scrub, soak and gently scrub, in the end looks like new, clean, shiny, wonderful. - soak over night in baking soda water solution, didn't try. But curious. - CLR, grey bottle cleaner/solvent, didn't try. PS I also got some insights as to what that 'mold' is and what causes it. Not all inputs were the same, but don't presently have my notes at hand. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12335	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 3/23/2001
Subject: Western MD Scenic

Great ride. Take a cap, some safety goggles, and a bandana to cover your face. Stick your head out the open upper half of the baggage car doors and windows. Ride one way through the tunnel outside at the very back of the train, the other way outside at the very front. Take in all the steam, smoke, sights, sounds, smells, and rumbling. Then go home and play trains. Makes for a great day

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12336	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 3/23/2001
Subject: New file uploaded to S-Trains

Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the S-Trains group. File : /Pike people/photo_shoot2.JPG Uploaded by : yorke@... Description : Tonka people involved in a photoshoot You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/Pike%20people/photo_shoot2.JPG To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, yorke@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12337	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 3/23/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, March 25, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12338	From: The Reis's	Date: 3/23/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] AM GP-9 parts

I tried to get Ron to trade me or sell me a set of PA shells. Note: I have Pennsy. and want UP. His response was a flat "We don't sell shells." I am still looking for a set (A-B-A) of UP PA shells and have Pennsy tuscan shells to trade. eric reis kenmore, wa Eric Reis -----Original Message----- From: Bill Roberts [mailto:wrob@...] Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 12:01 PM To: S Scale Subject: Re: [S-Scale] AM GP-9 parts Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 20:31:23 -0600 From: ironhors@... Subject: Re: AM GP-9 parts > [cut] Bashista has a problem with guys who want one complete unit and a shell > of each other paint scheme, and thus they are switching them around, or > something like that. My recollection is that Ron Bashista is willing to sell an extra shell with a complete locomotive. He will also sell a shell on an exchange basis. These policies do not help: (1) a modeler with a chassis but no shell; (2) a modeler who wants to just buy shells. If somebody finds himself in either situation and if a shell can't be bought from another modeler, he can contact American Models to see what, if anything, they are willing to do. - Bill Roberts The topic is S Scale please keep your messages 'on-topic'. To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12339	From: busyboy	Date: 3/23/2001
Subject: AF/HO

For you lovers of Flyer HO, here is an opportunity to see (and even buy) a set I did not even know existed. Go to: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1126535185 to see a really beautiful Southern Pacific Daylight, consisting of one F3 and 3 streamliners. Amazing. Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12340	From: busyboy	Date: 3/24/2001
Subject: Western Maryland Scenic Railroad

Peter Ervin wrote: >I can stand at my office window >in Cumberland and see the steam engine at the station. I am regularly >serenaded by the whistle, both at work and at home, which is also across >from the station. Now, here's the source of my envy. I commute two hours in each direction every day. That's four hours in the absence of trains, in the midst of heavy traffic. The thought of working so close to home that the same steam engine sounds I hear from my front yard are still with me in the office, well . . . You're probably married to a former centerfold girl, too. Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12341	From: busyboy	Date: 3/24/2001
Subject: Another S project shelved

I just got this from Ron Bashista. I am sure many of you received it as well. I wanted the long car set. I ordered mine through Bill Parr. I remember a lot of the negative blather on this list against the manufacture of these cars. For those of you who participated, perhaps this will describe for you how loose lips can sink ships. A few votes one way can change everything. Just ask a Florida voter. >Many of you know of the California Zephyr proposal we offered the strict S scalers who >demanded 85 foot coupled length scale cars. We we received almost 80 responses which >is short of the 100 we wanted. In the considerable controversy created by 3 or 4 S scale >guys (on S group sites) we found that some of them did not even place an order for these >cars and would not support the project, it seems some just wanted to criticize us for >entertainment. We'll I guess it goes with the territory of being the largest manufacturer of S >products. We also found that most, about (75%) of the strict S scalers (not AF or hi-rail >people) were wanting the present cars we are soon to ship as they don't have 30 or 40 foot >straight a ways to run the very long cars on. So we will shelve this project for the rest of the >year and concentrate on other items. (checks will be send back in the mail, we never >cashed any). Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12342	From: link_n_pin@yahoo.com	Date: 3/24/2001
Subject: (no subject)

Nice Pensy steam loco(s) jigsaw at http://jigzone.com/ms/z.php?q=im today. JimA

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12343	From: joe messinger	Date: 3/24/2001
Subject: Scenic Railroads

The Western Maryland Scenic R.R. offers a fun and interesting ride but one thing I haven't seen mentioned is that there is a really good restaurant right by the tracks at the destination in Frostburg, MD. They offer buffet style dining with lots of choices, good food and reasonable prices. You can view the turntable while having a good meal before you return to Cumberland, MD. The Cass Scenic R.R. in (Cass) WV offers spectacular views on the ride. Shay and Lima gear driven steam locomotives pull (and push) the train up the old logging rail line to the second highest point in WV called "Bald Knob" which is over 4000 feet in elevation. Cass has a web site, if anyone is interested, I'll look it up and post it on this list. Joe M. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12344	From: Roy Inman	Date: 3/24/2001
Subject: CZ cars

Negative comments on the list notwithstanding, there is one other factor that might have had a bearing on the insufficient number of modelers wanting the long CZ cars: to borrow a catch phrase from the Bush-Clinton election of the 90's, "It's the economy, stupid!" With corporate closing, layoffs and downsizing, and shrinking client lists of self-employeds, there may not be quite as many able to come up with the bucks just now, especially when the numbers of our S group are considered. In a larger pool, twenty additional reservations would be no problem. But, in a group our size, if you deduct from that twenty, say five who just did not hear about the project, five more who are currently unemployed or underemployed, another couple who are self-employed and the rest who just "don't have the money right now," or simply aren't interested, making that magic 100 number could be daunting. I did see mention of the project in one two publications, and while marketing is always a major concern, most people (but not all, certainly) would probably have known about the CZ cars. Roy Inman

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12345	From: Roy Inman	Date: 3/24/2001
Subject: Web link

To all; Many of you may already know, but just in case, there is an interesting model railroad site, about.com>hobbies>modelrailroads, that may be of interest. There are other web links to S, including one I had not heard of called Rairity Repaints that will repaint to better than new (they say) an existing, rare or never produced road name/color. There are always some interesting tips on scenery making, painting models, etc. A recent article, for instance, told how to make ground cover, color of your choice, from sawdust. regards, Roy Inman

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12346	From: dav21248@aol.com	Date: 3/24/2001
Subject: MTH OPERATING COALING TOWER

Can someone please give me the catalog number of MTH coaling tower and what catalog was it listed in. Thanks, Dave Loucks

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12347	From: sgriggs@umich.edu	Date: 3/24/2001
Subject: (no subject)

I think these are actually Chicago & Northwestern locomotives. Neat website. I'd never seen it before. --- In S-Trains@y..., link_n_pin@y... wrote: > Nice Pensy steam loco(s) jigsaw at http://jigzone.com/ms/z.php?q=im > today. JimA

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12348	From: SMITTY@tir.com	Date: 3/24/2001
Subject: crackle vs wrinkle paint

Does anyone know where I can find accessory green crackle finish paint for A.F.station roofs or possibly a white crackle finish that could be used as a primer? Toorailer........what you need to find is "wrinkle" paint. What may seem a matter of semantics will certainly make a difference at the paint store. The "crackling" product produces a finish that most closely resembles a crazing of the paint, sort of broken up into "islands" ( for lack of a better way to describe it ). The wrinkling effect is caused by the upper strata of the paint film drying at a different rate than the lower, it can be accomplished by adding a specifc polymer or by heat. I've been looking for the same grass green winkle paint for quite a while with no success. An alternate, as you suggested, is an undercoat of wrinkle paint top coated with the green final coat. Better auto supply paint stores carry it in black. There was also an antique electronics supply house that carried several different colors. The SafeTran Corp. makes railway signal equipment ( for the 1:1 world ) and some of their equipment cases have a wrinkle finish that is a dead-on duplicate of that used by ACG, I just need to get off my butt and get in contact with them ! Regard"S", Smitty

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12349	From: John Foley	Date: 3/24/2001
Subject: East Coast Hobby Show

Hi Folks. Well I just got back from the ECHS. Wow they had everything you could think of to put on display at a hobby show. But I must say Trains was the dominate items on display.MTH, Lionel, K-Line, and many more big names. S-Helper Service was also their. The were very busy answering questions from many of the folks looking to see what hobby they may be interested in. S-Helper also had their layout running. We owe them thanks as this was the only S layout at the show. Their were N to G gauge layouts. I think next year I am going to see about an NASG booth and see if we can get another S layout in operation their. Ron Sebastian of Des Plaines Hobbies had a booth. He had some of his tankers and hoppers for sale. He also had on Display test shots of his modern FMC and Pullman Standard Boxcars. Ron was so busy that all I was able to get is "in the works". The cars looked great and well detailed. John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12350	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 3/24/2001
Subject: NASG Elections

Since the NASG elections are coming up some folks on the S-scale list suggested that the candidates post a message with their qualifications for office and goals. I'm one of the candidates for president, so here is my resume. Experience: 1951 - First AF set for Christmas 1951-1981 - Various AF layouts 1981-1992 - Highrail layout - Penn Western #1 1992-1996 - Scale layout - PW #2 (20' X 23') 1996 - Scale/SN3 layout - PW #3 (29' X 45') My 50 years as an S Gauger cover every aspect of the scale Magazine articles: Classic Toy Trains Fall 1988 (third issue, now a collector's item) Winner of Perles Publication Award for 1989 Classic Toy Trains - Toy Train Layout Tour S-Gaugian - Sept/Oct - 1995 - Cover article S-Gaugian - Jul/Aug 1998 - Cover article S-Gaugian - May/Jun 2000 - Cover article Model Railroader - Sold layout tour type of article to MR 11/99 and awaiting (patiently) publication. Model Railroad News - Bi-Monthly Column 'S-Curves' Editor of South Jersey S-Gaugers (nee Scalers) newsletter 'The Waybill' Organizational: 1989 Co-founder of the South Jersey S-Scalers. Memberships: NASG Lehigh Valley S-Gaugers NMRA, Mid-East Region, South Mountain Division Promoting S: Part of 1993 NMRA/NASG joint convention layout tour Part of NMRA, MER convention layout tour 1989 Part of NMRA, MER convention layout tour 1999 Was part of NMRA, MER, NJ Division layout tours for several years. Internet Experience: www.innernet.net/rhoffman www.s-scaletrains.com www.s-scaletrains.com/pwrr www.sscaleloco.com Biggest goals: 1- More young people coming into S. 2- Getting S into the hobby shops. 3- Getting S into the discount stores with inexpensive starter sets. 4- Keeping pressure on Lionel and MTH, etc. to mass produce S. 5- Getting more S in the major magazines. 6- Supporting our manufacturers. a- Help with joint ads in major magazines b- Advertisements on the various web sites especially the NASG's. c- Helping to publicize trial reservations like the scale length CZ cars. 7- Helping with modular layouts at train shows. 8- Supporting the Dispatch staff in keeping its high standards. 9- Helping to recruit more members in the NASG. 10- Getting more people to run for office. 11- Good fiscal practice 12- Support the National and regional conventions. 13- Supporting SN3 as it is well on the way to becoming the dominant scale in Narrow Gauge 14- Helping to get S scale layouts to be part of home layout tours for the NMRA, etc. 15- Making the NASG perform like it's logo. It must be a United Team Effort all the way. The NASG is largely doing these things now and this list is not meant as a criticism, just an affirmation that these efforts will be continued and beefed up where necessary. I am 60 years old, married with two sons. Veteran of the U.S. Army 1962-1965 I am semi-retired (from Conrail) and work as a computer software consultant Respectfully submitted, Roy Hoffman

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12351	From: The Reis's	Date: 3/24/2001
Subject: Re: crackle vs wrinkle paint

In the mid 80's the late Virge Crosby (sounds strange when I say that as he passed away only earlier this year) and I made several hundred of the Flyer accessory roofs for Ron Leventon. I bent them up on a brake I had access to and Virge added the stack and painted them. The heat treating in the oven was a whole other story where his wife Francis was involved. Anyway we at first found the green wrinkle paint at auto supply stores and all worked well. Well, a hundred or so into it there was no green paint to be found. I tried the manufacturer of the paint we had and their response was that black and grey was all they made now. anyway, we did the rest in either black or with grey wrinkle undercoat and green overcoat. When done well this is quite acceptable, but needs to be tested on scrap a few times to get the drying and coverage down. In the 15 or so years since then I have looked for a green wrinkle finish paint and never found it. Doesn't mean it doesn't exist, just not that I could find. Happy painting' eric reis kenmore, wa. -----Original Message----- From: SMITTY@... [mailto:SMITTY@...] Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2001 1:38 PM To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [S-Trains] crackle vs wrinkle paint Does anyone know where I can find accessory green crackle finish paint for A.F.station roofs or possibly a white crackle finish that could be used as a primer? Toorailer........what you need to find is "wrinkle" paint. What may seem a matter of semantics will certainly make a difference at the paint store. The "crackling" product produces a finish that most closely resembles a crazing of the paint, sort of broken up into "islands" ( for lack of a better way to describe it ). The wrinkling effect is caused by the upper strata of the paint film drying at a different rate than the lower, it can be accomplished by adding a specifc polymer or by heat. I've been looking for the same grass green winkle paint for quite a while with no success. An alternate, as you suggested, is an undercoat of wrinkle paint top coated with the green final coat. Better auto supply paint stores carry it in black. There was also an antique electronics supply house that carried several different colors. The SafeTran Corp. makes railway signal equipment ( for the 1:1 world ) and some of their equipment cases have a wrinkle finish that is a dead-on duplicate of that used by ACG, I just need to get off my butt and get in contact with them ! Regard"S", Smitty S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12352	From: hgbutler	Date: 3/24/2001
Subject: ID Caboose Paint Matching

I'm in the process of converting an Industrial Designs caboose (Santa Fe) to S hi-rail, and I was wondering whether anyone could recommend a good match for the red body color. Thanks, Harry Butler

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12353	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 3/24/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] East Coast Hobby Show

I had a big thrill at the East Coast Hobby Show today, I met Paul Culp. I looked at his badge and saw his name while he was looking at our layout I could not believe my eyes. He started to go on about "S" being the perfect size and how he could never understand why it had not taken off, I realized I was in the shadow of a great S Scale figure. You see Paul and his brothers made all of the tooling for Rex and Nixon n the early 50's. We talked for a few minutes and I told him of all the stuff that was now available in brass and RTR plastic. He truly seemed surprised at the variety of our stuff running on the layout I gave him a catalog and he confided in me that he still had his original AF boxed away. Truly a day to remember for me. Don T. John Foley wrote: > Hi Folks. > Well I just got back from the ECHS. Wow they had everything you could > think of to put on display at a hobby show. But I must say Trains was the > dominate items on display.MTH, Lionel, K-Line, and many more big names. > S-Helper Service was also their. The were very busy answering questions > from many of the folks looking to see what hobby they may be interested in. > S-Helper also had their layout running. We owe them thanks as this was the > only S layout at the show. Their were N to G gauge layouts. I think next year > I am going to see about an NASG booth and see if we can get another S > layout in operation their. > Ron Sebastian of Des Plaines Hobbies had a booth. He had some > of his tankers and hoppers for sale. He also had on Display test shots of > his modern FMC and Pullman Standard Boxcars. Ron was so busy that > all I was able to get is "in the works". The cars looked great and well > detailed. > John > > > > The topic is S Scale please keep your messages 'on-topic'. > To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New 2nd run reefers are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12354	From: Scott Brown	Date: 3/25/2001
Subject: Re: Another S Project Shelved

Chris, While I did not join the critisism of the Zepher car project, I have been critical of American Models products in the past. Personally, I had hoped that the quality of his products was making a turn for the better as I have seen a couple of Ron's engines at our club shows. They have the "gription" wheels and seem to run fine. I have never understood why AM engines don't come with 2 motors. They just don't seem to have the power to pull anthing but the newer lighter AM and S Helper cars. (let's not start that discussion again). But, in the same email you posted, Ron now states that "For orders with extra coaches (5 or more Budd cars) we recommend two power units because these cars are a somewhat heavier than our other passenger cars." At least he is telling you now to add another couple of hundred bucks to your already close to $450 (6 cars) order so that you can enjoy his new cars. Why he can't just make engines that can do the job is beyond me. Many on here have told stories about their AM passenger cars derailing on the curves. Maybe he didn't get the support for his Zepher cars because people want to see if the new Budd passenger cars have the same problem. Maybe it was just a case of bad timing. If the new cars work well, then maybe his orders would have picked up for the Zepher cars. Ron seems to be good at blaming other people for problems with his products. Maybe a little more R&D would improve his image and sales. Instead of blaming us for not buying his trains. Scott Brown Atlantic Coast S Gaugers Washington & Old Dominion Division

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12355	From: Gerry Evans	Date: 3/25/2001
Subject: Attn: Badgerland S Gaugers

With any luck at all, Chuck and Pat Porter will be my first "official" S visitors to my "under construction" layout. They plan to drive from Phoenix to the clear, clean air of Flagstaff in Northern Arizona this afternoon. Maybe gonna park their RV in the driveway overnight. If they stay an extra day we can go watch some of the average 80 trains per day that go through here--not counting AmShack. Just thought you'd like to know. Gerry Evans [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12356	From: busyboy	Date: 3/25/2001
Subject: Re: crackle vs wrinkle paint

SMITTY said: >The SafeTran Corp. . . . equipment cases have a wrinkle finish that is a dead-on >duplicate of that used by ACG, I just need to get off my butt and get >in contact with them ! I did a search and found that SafeTran is SafeTran Systems Inc. and is located in Louisville, KY. Their website is http://www.SafeTran.com The address is: Safetran Systems 2400 Nelson Miller Parkway Louisville, KY 40223 Telephone: (502) 244-7400 Toll Free: 1-800-626-2710 Fax: (502) 244-7444 e-mail address for all inquiries is: safetran.sales@... Sorry, I don't show anything in the searches about your butt!!! Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12357	From: hgbutler	Date: 3/25/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] ID Caboose Paint Matching

Thanks for the tip, Bob.The rapid exchange of information like this is what I like most about these lists. Harry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert W. Jackson" <rwjackson@...> To: "hgbutler" <hgbutler@...> Cc: <s-scale@yahoogroups.com>; <s-trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2001 10:04 PM Subject: Re: [S-Scale] ID Caboose Paint Matching > hgbutler wrote: > > > I'm in the process of converting an Industrial Designs caboose (Santa Fe) to > > S hi-rail, and I was wondering whether anyone could recommend a good match > > for the red body color. > > > > Thanks, > > Harry, > Floquil makes an ATSF red which is a close match. You might also want to > consider Floquil's Signal Red. These are not plastic compatible paints however > so you would need a barrier coat first. Floquil may also have a water based > paint that is equivalent is color, but I don't know for sure. > Bob Jackson > > > The topic is S Scale please keep your messages 'on-topic'. > To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12358	From: Peck	Date: 3/25/2001
Subject: Re: Crackle paint

<<Does anyone know where I can find accessory green crackle finish paint for A.F.station roofs or possibly a white crackle finish that could be used as a primer? >> We carry crackle black, but I am not aware of crackle green availability. You have to paint with black, then second-coat it with regular green. Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12359	From: Dick Kuepper	Date: 3/25/2001
Subject: Glue

What is the best type of glue to use to fasten plastic-tie fixed radius track to cork roadbed? Thanks. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12360	From: busyboy	Date: 3/25/2001
Subject: The Jig Zone

JimA wrote the list: >Nice Pensy steam loco(s) jigsaw at http://jigzone.com/ms/z.php?q=im Life's little links. You just never know how things can move in a new direction from just one little casual, innocuous reference. I went to jigzone.com, following the link above. At first, I didn't see the locomotives, I saw pictures of animals. My wife came into the room. "What's that?" Jigsaw puzzles on-line. Too complicated for her special ed. kids. Wait, you can get it down to 6 pieces! Cute kitty. Nice doggie. Scary sharkie. Wow, when you finish, you can e-mail it as a postcard and write a message. This fits perfectly with the plan she had for her new grant project called "e-pals". She's off and running, making phone calls already. My wife thanks you. I go to see the locos. Nice. Has a link to a book on Amazon.com. Life & times of a Pennsy Engineer. Looked great. Bought the book. I thank you. It's a quiet Sunday morning, but, ya just never know. Two to go, in a new direction, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12361	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 3/25/2001
Subject: Re: Another S Project Shelved

HOW ABOUT WE STOP TRYING TO LAY ANY BLAME AND JUST ALL TAKE A PIECE OF THE RESPONSIBILITY. Modelers who do not buy products can't be blamed by manufacturers for not buying; manufacturers can't be blamed for not producing if they can't accurately predict the sales. When both parties make the wrong assumptions, businesses are destroyed Remember Edsel, Tucker,DeSoto and now Oldsmobile?? Maybe if AM got more early feedback or cooperation from the mechanically astute in our membership (consider ourselves their design consultants) we would see more and different models and results. I would rather see us all discuss and work towards solutions than criticism. I can't even imagine Athearn, MTH, or any other manufacturer developing tooling for production numbers as low as AM is considering. Give him a break if some design time or quality control slips because there is no (money from sales or) pre-sales commitments to support the effort. Dennis Troini On Sun, 25 Mar 2001 09:18:41 -0500 "Scott Brown" <sbrown56@...> writes: > Chris, > While I did not join the critisism of the Zepher car project, I > have > been critical of American Models products in the past. Personally, I > had > hoped that the quality of his products was making a turn for the > better as I > have seen a couple of Ron's engines at our club shows. They have > the > "gription" wheels and seem to run fine. I have never understood why > AM > engines don't come with 2 motors. They just don't seem to have the > power to > pull anthing but the newer lighter AM and S Helper cars. (let's not > start > that discussion again). But, in the same email you posted, Ron now > states > that "For orders with extra coaches (5 or more Budd cars) we > recommend two > power units because these cars are a somewhat heavier than our > other > passenger cars." At least he is telling you now to add another > couple of > hundred bucks to your already close to $450 (6 cars) order so that > you can > enjoy his new cars. Why he can't just make engines that can do the > job is > beyond me. Many on here have told stories about their AM passenger > cars > derailing on the curves. Maybe he didn't get the support for his > Zepher cars > because people want to see if the new Budd passenger cars have the > same > problem. Maybe it was just a case of bad timing. If the new cars > work well, > then maybe his orders would have picked up for the Zepher cars. Ron > seems to > be good at blaming other people for problems with his products. > Maybe a > little more R&D would improve his image and sales. Instead of > blaming us for > not buying his trains. > > > Scott Brown > Atlantic Coast S Gaugers > Washington & Old Dominion Division > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > r use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12362	From: Arden Goehring	Date: 3/25/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Attn: Badgerland S Gaugers

You mean AmWreck. AG

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12363	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/25/2001
Subject: Re: The Jig Zone

This #@#@!! site is addicting!!!! Spent more time doing puzzles than reading about trains!!! UH OH. . . . S' David D. Former Free Cell Addictie, now doing puzzles

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12364	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 3/25/2001
Subject: Re: Another S Project Shelved

Wow!!!!!!!! Larry "Dennis A. Troini" wrote: > > HOW ABOUT WE STOP TRYING TO LAY ANY BLAME AND JUST ALL TAKE A PIECE OF > THE RESPONSIBILITY. Modelers who do not buy products can't be blamed by > manufacturers for not buying; manufacturers can't be blamed for not > producing if they can't accurately predict the sales. When both parties > make the wrong assumptions, businesses are destroyed Remember Edsel, > Tucker,DeSoto and now Oldsmobile?? Maybe if AM got more early feedback or > cooperation from the mechanically astute in our membership (consider > ourselves their design consultants) we would see more and different > models and results. I would rather see us all discuss and work towards > solutions than criticism. I can't even imagine Athearn, MTH, or any > other manufacturer developing tooling for production numbers as low as AM > is considering. Give him a break if some design time or quality control > slips because there is no (money from sales or) pre-sales commitments to > support the effort. > Dennis Troini > > On Sun, 25 Mar 2001 09:18:41 -0500 "Scott Brown" <sbrown56@...> > writes: > > Chris, > > While I did not join the critisism of the Zepher car project, I > > have > > been critical of American Models products in the past. Personally, I > > had > > hoped that the quality of his products was making a turn for the > > better as I > > have seen a couple of Ron's engines at our club shows. They have > > the > > "gription" wheels and seem to run fine. I have never understood why > > AM > > engines don't come with 2 motors. They just don't seem to have the > > power to > > pull anthing but the newer lighter AM and S Helper cars. (let's not > > start > > that discussion again). But, in the same email you posted, Ron now > > states > > that "For orders with extra coaches (5 or more Budd cars) we > > recommend two > > power units because these cars are a somewhat heavier than our > > other > > passenger cars." At least he is telling you now to add another > > couple of > > hundred bucks to your already close to $450 (6 cars) order so that > > you can > > enjoy his new cars. Why he can't just make engines that can do the > > job is > > beyond me. Many on here have told stories about their AM passenger > > cars > > derailing on the curves. Maybe he didn't get the support for his > > Zepher cars > > because people want to see if the new Budd passenger cars have the > > same > > problem. Maybe it was just a case of bad timing. If the new cars > > work well, > > then maybe his orders would have picked up for the Zepher cars. Ron > > seems to > > be good at blaming other people for problems with his products. > > Maybe a > > little more R&D would improve his image and sales. Instead of > > blaming us for > > not buying his trains. > > > > > > Scott Brown > > Atlantic Coast S Gaugers > > Washington & Old Dominion Division > > > > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > > r use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12365	From: WNHOLCOMB@aol.com	Date: 3/25/2001
Subject: Re: Rechroming

I have a 356 Silver Bullet shell and tender that I am considering having rechromed. Does anyone have a rechroming source they would recommend ? Thanks, Neil Holcomb

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12366	From: Alex	Date: 3/25/2001
Subject: Re: Another S Project Shelved

The fact that AM will not accept returns from dissatisfied customers speaks worlds about the company's confidence in its products. Caveat Emptor! -- Alex in Kennebunk, Maine -----Original Message----- From: Scott Brown [mailto:sbrown56@...] Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2001 9:19 AM To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [S-Trains] Re: Another S Project Shelved Chris, While I did not join the critisism of the Zepher car project, I have been critical of American Models products in the past. Personally, I had hoped that the quality of his products was making a turn for the better as I have seen a couple of Ron's engines at our club shows. They have the "gription" wheels and seem to run fine. I have never understood why AM engines don't come with 2 motors. They just don't seem to have the power to pull anthing but the newer lighter AM and S Helper cars. (let's not start that discussion again). But, in the same email you posted, Ron now states that "For orders with extra coaches (5 or more Budd cars) we recommend two power units because these cars are a somewhat heavier than our other passenger cars." At least he is telling you now to add another couple of hundred bucks to your already close to $450 (6 cars) order so that you can enjoy his new cars. Why he can't just make engines that can do the job is beyond me. Many on here have told stories about their AM passenger cars derailing on the curves. Maybe he didn't get the support for his Zepher cars because people want to see if the new Budd passenger cars have the same problem. Maybe it was just a case of bad timing. If the new cars work well, then maybe his orders would have picked up for the Zepher cars. Ron seems to be good at blaming other people for problems with his products. Maybe a little more R&D would improve his image and sales. Instead of blaming us for not buying his trains. Scott Brown Atlantic Coast S Gaugers Washington & Old Dominion Division S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12367	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/25/2001
Subject: RECROMING

I had a 305 recromed by Portline Hobbies.....Reas. cost ....Excellent job overall.......Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12368	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 3/25/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, March 25, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EST (GMT-05:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12369	From: Dick Kuepper	Date: 3/25/2001
Subject: Castings

Has anyone tried the liquid silicone mold rubber and urethane casting resins sold by MicroMark? I'd like to make an ore car pattern and try making copies. Thanks. Dick [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12370	From: Clifford Manning	Date: 3/25/2001
Subject: 718 Baggage car shell

Does anyone have a replacement shell for an American Flyer 718 Baggage Car? Mine is cracked to the point that it needs to be replaced.The set is a Tuscan? Red. clifma19@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12371	From: John Foley	Date: 3/25/2001
Subject: More info on Scranton and Steamtown

Hi Folks Here is a website that talks about a short line that runs through Steamtown. Hopefully some of their equipment through Steamtown while were there. http://www.dnaco.net/~gelwood/other/dela.html John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12372	From: Wayne and Alice Beachy	Date: 3/25/2001
Subject: American Models

I have bought close to a hundred AM products, both directly from Ron and through dealers. I can only remember twice when I had any problems and both times Ron has stood behind his product and made it good. For AM engines with two motors, Their PAs come with two motors. Maybe he will do, or redo some of the roadnames in the PAs he does not already have to pull the new passenger cars. By the way, I understand the reason the passenger cars are so heavy is they will be metal. Wayne Beachy Atlantic Coast S Gaugers Virginia Central Division [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12373	From: Scott Brown	Date: 3/25/2001
Subject: Re: Another S Project Shelved

Sorry Dennis, I can't give him a break for "quality control slips" since his products cost as much or more than the other manufacturers you listed. I expect quality for that kind of money. Not excuses. I've already been burned by him on 2 previous purchases. And as Alex noted: " The fact that AM will not accept returns from dissatisfied customers speaks worlds about the company's confidence in its products." Don't get me wrong. I do see an improvement in his product and my comment was directed toward the idea that others might be waiting to see the same improvement before spending the money. I'm not going to shell out hundreds of dollars for a product I can't return if it won't stay on the track post-production. If the Budd passenger cars go well, then maybe next year he can try the Zepher idea again and get more support. He has to prove himself first. Just because he pumpes out the most product doesn't mean we should pay top dollar and ignore the defects. Scott Brown

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12374	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/25/2001
Subject: Chat tonite!!

Hi all! I will probably be late, going to Grass Valley for lunch w/ Linda's Dad, Brother & his kids, later! S' David D. PS. BEHAVE!! (Like I do???)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12375	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 3/25/2001
Subject: Re: Glue

My favorite is silicone bath sealer (clear) Dick Kuepper wrote: > > What is the best type of glue to use to fasten plastic-tie fixed radius track to cork roadbed? > Thanks. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12376	From: Robert Allen Conner NCARB Architect	Date: 3/25/2001
Subject: MOLDS - SPEEDEE-BILTS PLANES

I TOO WOULD LIKE TO FIND OUT HOW TO MAKE MOLDS...CAN SOMEONE OUT THERE SUPPLY ANY INFO....I HAD ONE 600 HW WITH THE END BROKE OFF....I TRIED SOME JUNK STUFF I GOT A T A HOBBY SHOP...HAD TO PAINT ON ABOUT 20 COATS.....FLIPPED IT TO THE OTHER END AND FILLED IT WITH EPOXY......A LITTLE PAINT AND IT REALLY LOOKS NICE!!!! I ALSO WANT TO TRY SEVERAL SMALL HOPPER STEPS....BUT FOR NOW. FIRST, I WANT TO TRY TO CAST SEVERAL "SPEEDEE-BIT" PLANE PARTS TO TRY TOI REBUILD SEVERAL OLD KITS I HAVE...(BTW....WILL TRADE FLYER FOR OLD SPEEDEE KITS BY MONOGRAM)(ALSO OTHER 1/2A BALSA KITS).....ALSO ANY IDES WHERE I CAN GET THE NEW LIONEL AF ASS. AT DISCOUNT PRICES? ANOTHER OFF TOPIC.....THE OTHER DAY I WENT INTO A HOBBY SHOP HERE IN FL....HE HAD A PILE OF JUNKERS IN A MARX BOX ON THE FLOOR......8.00 EACH......SOMEONE HAD REPLACED THE WHEELS ON A FLYER TANK CAR...ALL STEPS PRESENT..TOP GREAT...ALL RAILS NICE.....GRADE ALMOST E....I REPLACED THE TRUCKS WITH PIKEMASTER....THE CAR #30 BAKERS CHOC...!!!!!! SO KEEP LOOKING......I NOTICED IN THE BACK RECENTLY TWO PRE WAR FLYER COACHS WITH MARX TRUCKS...BUT REPAINTED.... THANKS.....BOB [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12377	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/25/2001
Subject: Re: Another S Project Shelved

Dennis had a great post, except for putting Tucker in the list. Tucker didn't die because of lack of sales. Tucker was forced out of business illegally. There are volumes of documentation to prove this, but what I trust most is a conversation with Alex Tremulus back in the 70s when he told me that if they'd had two more weeks, there would have been a thousand Tuckers out of the factory, and NO doubt as to the validity of their intention to produce what would have been one of the safest cars of that and the next 30 years. Sorry, another one of my slight passions! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12378	From: Roy Inman	Date: 3/25/2001
Subject: Re: crackle vs wrinkle paint

Chris, When I tried to email Safetran about the paint, I got back something about it not being a "public site," and of course no info. Have you tried to contact them, and if so, what was your experience? Roy Inman ---------- >From: busyboy <busyboy@...> >To: slist <s-trains@yahoogroups.com> >Subject: [S-Trains] re: crackle vs wrinkle paint >Date: Sun, Mar 25, 2001, 9:15 AM > >>The SafeTran Corp.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12379	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 3/26/2001
Subject: AM Quality control

Hoo-BOY... Is this ever a two-sided issue... As an owner of eight AM diesels and other misc rolling stock, AND as a "certifiable modern guy", this subject stirs conflicting passions in me. On one hand, I remember the first AM loco (a GP9) that I risked my patiently amassed "train money" to buy. How vivid is the recollection of that first moment of operation, how smoothly and reliably (and SLOWLY!) the thing ran, how accurate it's lines were, especially compared to the LTI Southern GP"9" (actually a GP7 with dynamic brakes) and another LTI GP"20" (a GP7 with dynamic brakes and a chopped nose) that I'd gotten really frustrated with. That did it for me. No more LTI, and very little Gilbert has been purchased since. On the other hand, all has not been beer and skittles. While I can attest to the improvement in AM quality control over the years, there certainly is room for improvement. I've had my share of out-of-the-box problems with rtr locos. Without going into gory details, let's just say there were a couple of instances where someone else would have returned the item in question. I HATE returning mail-order stuff, so, since the problems in each case were fixable, I made the repairs myself. (I doubt that there would have been a problem with returning anything. More than once, Ron has offered to refund my money if I didn't want to keep an item.) Also, There are the "tweaks" that AM locos seem to need, such as contact wiper tension (always too strong), coupler mods, etc. And they do benefit greatly from added weight. (It's been my experience that AM's low tractive effort is more due to weight than horsepower.) Nevertheless, all that done, I have always ended up with a fine running model. But, should I have had to do these things at all? There have been a few issues with recent editions of rolling stock such as the spine cars, with their tireways floating mysteriously above the supports, and a certain 50' boxcar that could have stood a bit more paint on the ends. But, hey, at least AM OFFERS a few truly modern items. (And, Ron B. HAS promised me he's still gonna bring out that SD60. Any time now. I'm ready...) To be fair though, there has been real improvement since 1981, especially with loco markings, detailing, windows, and such. All-in- all, I'm grateful for the AM line, and plan to buy more. Still, I can't help wondering if it wouldn't be wise for RB to temporarily slow down on introducing new equipment, and deal with some fundamental quality control issues for the long haul. AFTER the SD60 comes out, that is. :^) Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12380	From: John Denholm	Date: 3/26/2001
Subject: Re-storing Metal Alum'Pass/cars

Hi Guys & gals; I have recently found 4 Marx passenger cars and I am going to convert them over to A-F! What I need is a Great Manufacture of a Great Chrome Paint and where can I get it in Canada? if possible! "How-To" repaint the metal Alum' Cars Does any one know of a Top of the Line Chrome Paint or as there metal with plastic bits on them could they be Chromed? as I live up here in no man's land cost is always a factor! and a P.S. to Boss31@.com Steve if you read this I have a 312 that is running very sluggish and no Pull power max 5 cars and if it hits a 1/4" rise I have to hammer the engine with humonguos Volts to keep it rolling I have decided to shelve my 312 until this is repaired. if you are available for s repair on my engine please advise off-line many Thanks John jde@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12381	From: Douglass Allen	Date: 3/26/2001
Subject: wrinkle paint

There are many common spray can paints which can produce wrinkle finish. Look in the directions on the back. When it says for instance: "Recoat within 3 hours or after 24 hours." Just violate those instructions and voila! wrinkle finish. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12382	From: Douglass Allen	Date: 3/26/2001
Subject: Dennis/S project shelved

Hear Hear. Henry Ford said: "Don't find fault. Find answers." [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12383	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 3/26/2001
Subject: Trouble with a 302AC

Just got a 302AC which is in excellent appearance, but when put on the rails, the reverse unit clicks nicely, but nothing else happens. The wires appear to be intact, but before I go taking this thing apart, any suggestions on where to look? The motor does not seem frozen, nor is there any apparent binding, but the motor does not make a sound, does not move an inch, and does not smoke either (no sparking or anything). Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, you all have been a great help so far. Tom _---_---_---______--__--___+-----+||] [||####### B & O #####|______||_____ || pjpennington@... __| [][] |__ || ||_______________________/ _| B&O |___\_|| | ||| | | | | | | / | 4212 | # ||| | []|=|==================o=====o==================|=|[] /|-||(0)|=|(0)|=|(O) |_________| (0)|=|(0)|=|(O)||-|\ ======================================================== [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12384	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 3/26/2001
Subject: Re: Trouble with a 302AC

Is there an FAQ on this kind of information, and if so, can someone point me to it? Thanks At 01:47 PM 3/26/01 -0500, Tom Pennington wrote: >Just got a 302AC which is in excellent appearance, but when put on the >rails, the reverse unit clicks nicely, but nothing else happens. The wires >appear to be intact, but before I go taking this thing apart, any >suggestions on where to look? The motor does not seem frozen, nor is there >any apparent binding, but the motor does not make a sound, does not move an >inch, and does not smoke either (no sparking or anything). Any suggestions >would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, you all have been a great help so far. > > >Tom > > _---_---_---______--__--___+-----+||] > [||####### B & O #####|______||_____ > || pjpennington@... __| [][] |__ || > ||_______________________/ _| B&O |___\_|| > | ||| | | | | | | / | 4212 | # ||| | >[]|=|==================o=====o==================|=|[] > /|-||(0)|=|(0)|=|(O) |_________| (0)|=|(0)|=|(O)||-|\ >======================================================== > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ _---_---_---______--__--___+-----+||] [||####### B & O #####|______||_____ || pjpennington@... __| [][] |__ || ||_______________________/ _| B&O |___\_|| | ||| | | | | | | / | 4212 | # ||| | []|=|==================o=====o==================|=|[] /|-||(0)|=|(0)|=|(O) |_________| (0)|=|(0)|=|(O)||-|\ ======================================================== [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12385	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/26/2001
Subject: Re: Trouble with a 302AC

Tom, Most likely a bad finger on the reverse unit, or if the engine has been sitting a long time, a frozen brush. You need to chase it down, easiest with a volt-meter, but you can "poke around" and find the problem too! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12386	From: M.McConnell	Date: 3/26/2001
Subject: SJSG Train Show in Phila Metro.

This Sunday (April 1st), the South Jersey S Gaugers will hold their 7th Bi-annual train show for the benefit of Bellmawr Fire & Rescue #1. The show will be held in the fire hall just North of the corner of Browning Rd and Rt 168 (Blackhorse Pike). The show is only a 15 minute ride from Cherry Hill, NJ and center-city Philadelphia. The show will run from 9:00am to 2:00pm and has a nice representation of S gauge vendors (imagine that!) as well as those dealing in other gauges and railroad-oriented products. If you're in the area, stop in and say hello. Our club's modular layout will be on display and the coffee pot is always on. We will have a few new products on hand for "show-n-tell" - the new Hobo Junction & PA Heritage Models co-op S Trolley will be running on our layout, and we hope to have a pre-production AM Budd car on display.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12387	From: Roger Zuerlein	Date: 3/26/2001
Subject: Re: Another S Project Shelved

Alex: >The fact that AM will not accept returns from dissatisfied customers speaks >worlds about the company's confidence in its products. I have had the opportunity to return 2 locos to AM due to an ordering error on my end. I have never had a problem with the returns. Ron has always been ultimately reasonable and responsible. By the same token, I have never had an AM product do anything other than preform admirably (this is not to say, there are not problems with the performance, just I have not had personal experience with it). Roger Zuerlein _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12388	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 3/26/2001
Subject: Re: Trouble with a 302AC

In a message dated 3/26/01 2:51:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, djdewey@... writes: << Tom, Most likely a bad finger on the reverse unit, or if the engine has been sitting a long time, a frozen brush. You need to chase it down, easiest with a volt-meter, but you can "poke around" and find the problem too! S' David D. >> A broken wire in the wiring harness up close to the plug by the engine cab is another possibility. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12389	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 3/26/2001
Subject: Re: Trouble with a 302AC

http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm We are always looking for more FAQ material __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12390	From: John Foley	Date: 3/26/2001
Subject: New York to Scranton by Rail Someday maybe

Hi Folks You may find this website interesting. http://www.lackawannacutoff.org/ John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12391	From: joe messinger	Date: 3/26/2001
Subject: Cass Scenic R.R.

The web site for the Cass Scenic Railroad is: cassrr@.... Has history, pictures, sounds, schedules, sounds and directions. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12392	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/26/2001
Subject: Re: Trouble with a 302AC

RB, Broken wire, YES!! I missed that. Good suggestion. S David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12393	From: John Denholm	Date: 3/26/2001
Subject: Re-store Pass Cars

Hi all; on my previous post I made mention of a sluggish running Locmotive #312 for Steve weel it's a K5-#315 not a 312 I always figured the K5-#315 loco would be a great powerhouse of a Loco? but mine is running like a wannabe Loco? as it can only pull 5 cars including the caboose whereas my 21168 chuffs right along lot's smoke and speedy power I even hafto slow my 68 down on curves with the same freight loads! The K5-315 need twice the Volts and watts to even pull the above load around a curve! I sure wish i could get some feedback on this one as I would not like to just shelve this engine as I always believed they are made to run and work like a normal engines and its a real fine looking engine. thanks for the listen. John <jde>

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12394	From: joe messinger	Date: 3/26/2001
Subject: Cass R.R.- Address Correction

Sorry, the web address I just listed for Cass R.R is their e-mail address. I can't find my brochure on Cass. You can find it,if you're interested, by going to Yahoo Search and type in Cass Railroad WV. That will take you to the website. Even if you never go to Cass, it's worth the effort to look up their homepage. Lots of info. on Shay, Climax, Heisler steam locomotives. Great action photos of them with pretty mountain scenery included. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12395	From: lancemccold@chartertn.net	Date: 3/26/2001
Subject: American Models

American Models is clearly a contoverisal topic. I have not bought as much AM product as some of you, but I have been satisfied with what I have bought. It has not been perfect, but it is so much better than anything Gilbert ever made, I just have to say "wow!" Some of it needs tinkering to perform best, but what doesn't. I recently bought one of his Amtrak sets. the passenger cars are not scale length and there is a problem keeping the engine coupled to the cars, but when I solve the coupling problem, I will have one beautiful train set. I have to say that even if the AM product is not always everything I would like, I am grateful for what it is---good quality products that Gilbert never made. I bet there were people who had problems with the Flyer equipment we venerate. Look at the pikemaster stuff---it is pitifull. I don't hear people saying how terrible Gilbert was for making such stuff. Some gilbert stuff people do not even try to make run anymore. If you consider the diesel motors---poor design! We re- bush and re-motor, our old Flyer stuff to make it run half as well as AM engines. If you buy anything there will sometimes be problems. My friends who are into Lionel have bought their share of crappy stuff. Ask your Lionel friends about their switch tracks... We need to give Batista a lot of credit. He had the drive and vision to morgage his home and quit his day job to make something nobody else had the courage to make: brand new S-scale equipment. He is putting his livelihood on the line every time he spends big money to build a new type of train car for 100 people. Batista is not getting rich on the S-scale equipment he makes. I bet he works harder and earns less money than half the people on this list. If there are issues where he has not treated people fairly, there needs to be some way to find a just resolution. However, we are not talking about a Bachman here. Bachman Inc. is big and profitable and can afford to buy back things that people send back because of a quibble or a serious problem. I am grateful that he does what he does. If people on the list have specific problems, lets bring it to Batista's attention in the spirit of solving the problem. Otherwise, let's give him our moral support when we don't plan to buy his product, and let's find ways to give him technical and financial support when we do plan to buy his product. Lance McCold

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12396	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 3/26/2001
Subject: Re: American Models

> AM product > It has not been perfect, but it is > so much better than anything Gilbert ever made, > Gilbert never made scale RR models. All they ever produced was "TOYS". Can not compare the two. AM should be making good stuff if the are going to call them "MODELS"

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12397	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 3/26/2001
Subject: Toys

someone wrote it "AM product > It has not been perfect, but it is > so much better than anything Gilbert ever made, > Gilbert never made scale RR models. All they ever produced was  "TOYS". Can not compare the two. AM should be making good stuff if the are going to call them "MODELS"" I haven't been on the list much lately because of carpel tunnel in both hands, which makes it hard to type, but I have kind of been following the thread above to which I have to reply. Weather you call them scale, tinplate, exspensive, cheap, 1/64th scale true to life every minute detail reproduction of the real thing etc., etc., we play with them! They are all toys.What's that saying I hear all the time? The difference between a man and a boy is the cost of the toys? Well, my parents paid a fortune for my American Flyer toy trains, and now I am paying a fortune for my toy trains. I kind of like the AM trains because they are close to the Gilbert trains in appearance. At least the 1 Southern Baldwin switcher I have is. And the price I paid of 129.00 is more in line with what I can afford. But on the other hand I love the S-Helper SW-1 I have because of the detail.Cost a whole lot more for me to buy though. 200.00.They both run great!!!!! No tweaking neccesary here. But , The S-Helper engines are very fragile with all the fine detail. Plus, you get all the other stuff in the box to lose and break, And pay more for. I've digressed. Sorry. Even David Dewey's cars could be considered toys the way he plays with them! (sorry David) Anyway they are just toys darn it! Now go play with them. I am . Chris B. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12398	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/26/2001
Subject: Re: American Models

Ah Lawrence, I beg to differ with you. ACG made Scale models with toy wheelsets. I didn't say they were highly detailed scale models, but they were scale and 100% more accurate than their major competitiors. Not all of the equipment was accurate, modifications were made to fit the product line, but then we still see that today in many other "scale" lines. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12399	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/26/2001
Subject: SW/9.......Also Smoke

It would be nice to see a "dummy" or cow units made for the SW/9's That SHS puts out It really wouldn't take any extra tooling etc only a different # for each road name...With the opition of powering it or offering a unit that is #ed now without the motor as an opition...just an idea.....Mike S. Also a report will be out on the first smoke test.....The bigest complaint was the kerosene odor that has been "fixed " and another Run is almost ready for testing with out the kerosene odor... I belive it comes VERY close to the org But that is something that the other "noses" will help to confirm.. Those interested please send your names & address to me off list as it should be ready this week....Thank all that have given their opinions on the first batch...The 2nd is far better ....Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12400	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 3/26/2001
Subject: Re: American Models

I had AF and Lionel when I was a kid. When I started model railroading, I dumped the "TOYS" and started to model. Yes we play with them but we run railroads. I never ran a Railroad with AF or Lionel. I just played with toys. I ran a RR when I went into scale. Larry PS My AF was Zero Scale, not S Scale. David Dewey wrote: > > Ah Lawrence, > I beg to differ with you. ACG made Scale models with toy wheelsets.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12401	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 3/26/2001
Subject: Re: SW/9.......Also Smoke

To make a "B" unit from SHS SW9 would be a major project. I considered making a conversion kit for it. The biggest problem would be the frame. You would have to change the rear truck mount. I just have not come up with an inexpensive way of doing it. Larry anormal1@... wrote: > > It would be nice to see a "dummy" or cow units made for the SW/9's

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12402	From: Rick Evans	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Re: Sluggish engines.........

John D. was asking about his sluggish loco. After I replaced the armature (after attempting to true the old one, which I will tackle again!) in my 282,...it is now running MUCH better!! And I even used a pre-pulmore one at that!! After oiling and greasing and replacing brushes and spacer washers and pulling out some of my hair,..it STILL ran slow! My other Pacifics all run great. After all the faster-in-reverse talk on the list a while back,...I tried to "true" the old armature with no luck. Popped in another one, and finally,...that did the trick. Soooo.. my "truing" skills need some work or maybe the armature was somewhat burned out. Who knows,...all I know is, that as I was running my 282 today, I said to myself,..."That's more like it!!" Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12403	From: Howell S Jobbins	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Re: American Models

Lance, I couldn't agree more with everything you have stated. WELL DONE,--- AND THANK YOU RON BASHISTA FOR YOUR EFFORTS AND COMMENT TO "S" GAUGE. I was just looking through my old "S Gaugian" s and reread the article by Don Heimburger about American Models in the MAY/JUNE 1992 issue. Interesting reflections. We have a great range of sourcing of "S" gauge items from any companies, PLEASE SUPPORT THEM ALL, and enjoy our great hobby. Steve Jobbins

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12404	From: Tom Robichaud	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: MTH coal towers are in

Yo: Well, I got a call from my local dealer yesterday saying the MTH coal tower is in. I quickly drove the 30 miles and picked it up. Fired it up last night. Looks great! Runs smooth! A bit noisy and slow, but I really like it. Anyone else out there get one? Tommy

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12405	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Re: American Models

When I was a kid I had Marx and then American Flyer. The detail and design of the Flyer Cars were much more realistic than Lionel or Marx. True many passenger cars were actually a "shorty" version of the real thing, but American Flyer is the only model railroad to have a prototype car nick named " American Flyer Cars." At any rate, I had lots of fun playing trains.As I grew older I wanted real scale. I migrated first to N scale - small enough to build an empire, and then to HO because of the wide range of products. I love Passenger Trains most. Even in "N" scale a scale 10 Car streamliner was way to long to build a station that was big enough to handle it. ( Unless that would be the entire operation.) With space limited for railway empires in my house, I built and operated several switching layouts in HO. It lacked something. My intrest in model railroad faded. 20 years pass. I am blessed with a late life son! A bigger house is in order, and this one has a workshop which would make a great but compact train room. I have an 8' x 7' flyer layout. This inverted dogbone main line has a trestle to a Mountain station, a 3 track Talking Union Station and shed ( with siding for baggage loading car), a freight yard, a Mystic Talking station, block signal train control, and thanks to the excellent articles written by Tom Jarcho, track trip controlled operation. This provides plenty of "railroading". Because it is not scale, distance can be protrayed in the design of the layout, and it is okay to cram in as many action accessories as you can. To my son we are playing trains, to me we are railroading. Did I mention I spent 8 years railroading as a young engineer on the Illinois Central? Sometimes my flyer railroading is more fun than the real thing. lawrence jackman wrote: > I had AF and Lionel when I was a kid. When I started model railroading, > I dumped the "TOYS" and started to model. Yes we play with them but we > run railroads. I never ran a Railroad with AF or Lionel. I just played > with toys. I ran a RR when I went into scale. > Larry > PS My AF was Zero Scale, not S Scale. > > David Dewey wrote: > > > > Ah Lawrence, > > I beg to differ with you. ACG made Scale models with toy wheelsets. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12406	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Best thing for AC Steamers

The best thing for them is patience. Don't expect them to run day one, instead strip 'em down day one. Clean everything. Replace any worn parts, wires, connectors, etc. Carefully reassemble, and lubricate along the way. The last resort after all that might be a new armature. That's happened to me, but more often than not I've ended up with an engine that runs like new (at least as well as I guess they ran new) without needing a new armature. Don't piece meal your way through this. ACG items are old trains, not new rtr models. To get them back in the running order they deserve to be, you have to give them your patience and methodical refurbishing. They'll pay you back plenty in of hours of fun. Take your time. An average engine takes me at least 10-15 nights at 3-4 hours a night. But then again my prepulmors will easily pull 12 cars, and the pulmors the wallpaper off your house. Oil your rolling stock too. Sometimes I can't believe the strain folks put their engines under with cars that hardly roll anymore. Better yet, (at least on LC cars because you can more easily pry back and bend back in position the sideframes) remove all wheelsets, clean them (end stubs and faces too), and the axle holes of the sideframes, reinstall and oil. You'd be surprised how well these ol' timers roll when treated right. I just two heavyweights that started off slow and cranky to roll incredibly well by doing this. Have fun! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12407	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Re: American Models

Ah, Lawrence, Lawrence, To you, yes, there is a difference, but to 90% of the world's population, we are ALL just playing with toys. To believe otherwise is to be elitist. This is the same thinking that brings about brochures stating that modelers "Graduate" from toy trains to Highrail to scale. Not true, people evolve into that part of the hobby that gives them the most pleasure. One version is not better than another, although we hobbyists may fool ourselves into thinking our pastime is more acceptable, or justifiable, if we think we are replicating life in miniature as accurately as possible. Truth is, the non-railroad oriented population looks at all of us with (pick one or many) fascination, amusement, disdain--and some are looking for the padded cell to lock us in! As a comparison, I am a Piano Tuner, a member of the national organization, "The Piano Technicians' Guild." The Guild disdains the moniker, "piano tuner." We are above that, we are trained professionals, who have met testing standards that rate us as "Registered Piano Technicians" or RPT (used to be RTT, Registered Tuner Technician, but that was too close to "piano tuner"). The group's opinion is that "Technician" is more professional than "tuner." The group has been pushing this idea for some 30 years, but when the general piano-owning public needs their piano serviced, they look for a "Piano Tuner," despite our group's best efforts to "educate" them otherwise. Note that I introduced myself as a "Piano Tuner," as that is far more understood than to say "I'm a Piano Technician." It's just a title; it doesn't change how I approach my work, but it does help others understand that I'm not a piano PLAYER (though I like and work on player pianos). I think the Guild needs to wake up and work instead on getting people to have their pianos serviced regularly and not worry about semantics. That would make more work and income for all us "tuners" (and more train money for me!). I also think we S gaugers need to stop fretting about how we model in S and instead spend our time converting others to S in any facet of the scale! That would make more demand for S products, and more train choices (for me too!). Just having fun with trains, er toys, er. . er. . . ! S' David D. PS, and yes, I'm elitist too; MY trains run on TWO rails, not three! ;-)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12408	From: Bill Porter	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Toys and Models

Howdy Gents, I love this thread - it gets my heart pumping and it explores the extra added emotional content provided by our common language. These things we collect, admire, research, display, create, operate, cuss and discuss are toys. If a yacht that costs multiple millions of dollars is a toy, then our toys are in good company. I borrow a bit from the ancient Greek philosophers for the following discussion. We can classify our little trains into three bunches: (1) caricatures, (2) perfect, miniature reproductions and (3) something in between. Look at the American Flyer, Lionel and other tin plate trains from the pre-war (that is, prior to 1942) era. These things are clearly trains, but, they do not have much in the way of the perfectly scaled reproduction quality to them. Don't tell my scale buddies in the NMRA, but I really like these old trains. They are abstract sculptures that attempt to capture and emphasize some of the 'trainness' of the prototypes. Besides that, they are colorful and beautiful art works. They are certainly not scale models. We can all probably agree that they can be called 'toys'. After that it gets tougher. Consider some of the brass models and contest entries we have all seen - the type (2) trains. These items might reproduce the appearance of some locomotive or car as it was 15 months after it was made on July 13th, 1957 - before 2:00 PM. These models are delightful to look at. Some of us like to run them on our layouts. Of course, they are a little fragile and they are not made with scale thickness materials. The state of the art in producing 1 or many trains of this sort is constantly advancing. Few of us can populate a large railroad entirely with these things. It would take a lifetime to build them or a win in the lottery to buy them. Most of the trains we all have are type (3) trains. They are 'reasonable' reductions in scale with numerous compromises. We each set the 'reasonableness' bar for what sort of compromise we will accept in different places. There is no universally accepted place on that bar which establishes the line between junk and prized possession. There is no place on the bar which separates good businessmen from sleazy crooks. Some of us just like trains that are a little more on this side or that side. I wish we could have a set of universally accepted terms for these classes of small trains. These are toys and those are models. In between are bad, crummy or clumsy models. But, we don't. The caricatures are 'toys' because they......um.......don't faithfully reproduce......um.......enough detail to.......um.....satisfy me! The 'models' are exactly the sort that represents my desired train on some day and time in the past. It is a model because it.......er......has sufficient detail and .......er.....fidelity to represent.......er......my recollection of extra 265 on the GT driven my by uncle in 1957. That particular, model train is not quite right because the only box cars I could locate are painted as the prototypes were 6 months later and have the wrong sort of pad locks on the doors. That is not too objective. Worse yet, my taste will change over the course of my life. Far worse is that another of our members might like the boxcar and wish the locomotive and the other cars were all modified to match his preferred date and time. Until we get the universally accepted words that fit the different types of small trains, we need to ignore some of the emotional-loading that some of the words seem to carry with them. In other words, lighten up a bit - this is supposed to be fun. That's enough gas for now - I need to go back to playing with my toy trains. Bill Porter wpporter@... 561 791 1781 15212 79th Court N Loxahatchee, FL 33470 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12409	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Re: American Models

In a message dated 3/26/01 10:45:16 PM, lancemccold@... writes: << It has not been perfect, but it is so much better than anything Gilbert ever made, >> Welllll.........please, let's be careful. :-)) The "moderns" have built some great stuff in S, but no one has yet built a 4-8-4 that runs dependably on a high rail layout. Placing scale trains aside for the moment, the "moderns" have attempted only one steam engine, a Pacific, in high rail. I was doing a small repair on my 332AC the other day and marveled (again) at what a wonderful piece this is given its 'time and place'. It is a decent, but rugged, near-scale model of a known prototype. The many versions of the 0-8-0 are a joy to run and watch. Even in this day and age, the Gilbert heavyweights are still the option of choice for high rail operators, IMHO. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12410	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: American Models

I only purchased one piece of rolling stock by American models. It is so fragile that I had one end of the catwalk broke off before I got it out of the box. Also, It has knuckle couplers that do not seem to be at the correct height to match up with the AF stuff, and the coupler often uncouples when you pass the car over switches. Most AF stuff was rugged enough to be handled by Adults without breaking it. And as mentioned earlier, I have not seen the likes of the AF 343 being built by American Models or anyone else. Indeed I don't think we will see it's likes again, as a metal diecast engine of that quality would cost so much if made today that few would want to buy it. Please tread lightly when criticizing Gilbert stuff! :-)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12411	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: AF KC Truck Bushings

List Members, Due to a special purchase, I am able to greatly lower my price on the Ace #4050 Journal Bushings. These bushings fit American Flyer knuckle coupler trucks for both tenders and rolling stock and greatly increase rolling performance. I have had several customers come back for subsequent orders due to the increased performance created by these bushings. These bushings used to sell for 15 cents each, or 10 for $1.00. However, I am now offering them, with instructions, at 24 for $1.00 (enough to do 3 complete cars) or 100 for $3.00. Add $2.00 shipping and handling if ordering this item only. We will be announcing several exciting new products over the coming months. Please stay tuned. Joe ===== Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,100 part lines American Models ########################## S-Helper Service Official Licensed Dealer for Gilbert Reproductions joestrainrepair@... Master Charge/Visa __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12412	From: sgriggs@umich.edu	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Re: American Models

--- In S-Trains@y..., Chuck Harrington <myflyertrains@c...> wrote: > I only purchased one piece of rolling stock by American models. It is so fragile > that I had one end of the catwalk broke off before I got it out of the box.... > > Most AF stuff was rugged enough to be handled by Adults without breaking it. And > as mentioned earlier, I have not seen the likes of the AF 343 being built by > American Models or anyone else. Indeed I don't think we will see it's likes > again, as a metal diecast engine of that quality would cost so much if made today > that few would want to buy it. AM and SHS build cars and locomotives with much more fine (read delicate) detail than ACG ever did. These companies are trying to satisfy two segments of the S market: scale and hirail. The biggest problem with this is that the guys used to the rugged detail on a Flyer piece of rolling stock want that same level of detail, not fragile ladders and brakewheels that are easily damaged. People have been clamoring for "starter sets" in S gauge for years, but I honestly don't think anyone makes appropriate equipment for a starter set. AM and SHS might do well to consider a (for lack of a better term) "dumbed down" line of trains with coarse, molded on detail or thick-gauge wire handrails (like AF). I think the hirail guys would prefer it to what is presently offered and it might look better with original Flyer.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12413	From: louis glumac	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: MTH

Hi i just received a ad from leventon hobby to order the new gabe and sawmill at 15% discount,,is anyone on here taking orders i decided to buy them and i would like to give the bussiness to someone on here if possible,thanks......lou. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12414	From: sgriggs@umich.edu	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Re: American Models

" AM and SHS might do well to consider a (for lack of a > better term) "dumbed down" line of trains with coarse, molded on > detail or thick-gauge wire handrails (like AF). I think the hirail > guys would prefer it to what is presently offered and it might look > better with original Flyer." And no, I'm not calling hirail/Flyer guys dumb. I am a hirail/Flyer guy myself (although I like AM's and SHS's current products).

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12415	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: And another thing, in defense of Gilbert motors...

I can't agree with you guys who are in love with the little foreign made DC motors. I hope you have bought plenty of spare motors, because when they bite the dust, they are not repairable. I consider them to be inferior to the Gilbert motors, and frankly I am rather horrified that so many of you are replacing original motors with can motors. I can keep my original flyer motors running for as long as I live, and my decendents can keep them running too if they care to, because they can be repaired, rewound, rebrushed and rebushed for ever, or a long time! The day will come when the LTI Alcos that were made with can motors are hanger queens, because the can motors are worn out and good replacements are not available.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12416	From: Douglass Allen	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Toys

Chris B. said something I've always held to be the case. IE: no matter how meticulous one may be with his fine scale detail, the truth is we are all playing with toy trains. And what's wrong with that? I can appreciate the incredible detail in a fine scale model; but if someone came out with an s-scale handcar with Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck on it I'd be the first to buy one. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12417	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Re: American Models and toys

But your still playing with toys because it's not the real thing. It's only make believe! No matter how you try to justify it, it's just toys for grown up boys. And that's OK really!! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12418	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Toys and Models.

Are you listening Lionel, MTH, K-line ...... >People have been clamoring for "starter sets" in S gauge for years, >but I honestly don't think anyone makes appropriate equipment for a >starter set. AM and SHS might do well to consider a (for lack of a >better term) "dumbed down" line of trains with coarse, molded on >detail or thick-gauge wire handrails (like AF). I think the hirail >guys would prefer it to what is presently offered and it might look >better with original Flyer.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12419	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Re: Toys

To put in my 2 cents worth of opinions: AF trains were not Truly scale (compare the wheelbase of trucks) but they were virtualy scale and much better proportioned than Lionel in the world of toy trains. AF fans who complain about the delicate or fragile details on modern hirail stuff should stick to AF and stop badmouthing modern hirail. Flyer was made for 10 year old kids with no more than average motor skills. You can't have the looks of separately applied details AND ruggedness in the same model. I love my Flyer collection but have evolved more and more toward hirail. More and more I realize the diversity of this hobby. Some guys want everything to run perfect out of the box 'cause they can't fix the stuff. Others are modelers who enjoy fixing stuff up and think nothing of it. I perdonally would rather spend half an hour fixing something than taking the time to ship it back to the manufacturer and delay using it. I think that's maybe why we get such diverse opinions of AM stuff, thoough my experience with AM has been really great. Lionel is NOT "real" AF in my opinion, they only hold today's rights to the name. They are just another source of S gauge trains, not to be confused with "real" AF. Can motors are great, whether on Lionel, AM, SHS or any other brand. I have never had an AM engine that didn't run great and silky smooth, and look good, right out of the box. I own 11, from an early FP7 through the Streamlined K4. I also own a SHS SW9 with similar good performance. I rarely run most of my Flyers anymore because the modern stuff is so superior. AF is now for show on the walls, modern is for "go". AM deserves credit for making S as viable a scale as it is today. Without Ron there would be only aging Flyer fans and about 100 scale guys in the world. Maybe that was more like a nickel's worth. But it seems like we should all tolerate each others personal preferences with this hobby, there's room enough for all of us. There are no right or wrong ways to go about it, just personal preferences. Fire away! cbtrainnut@... wrote: > > someone wrote it > "AM product > > It has not been perfect, but it is > > so much better than anything Gilbert ever made, > > > > Gilbert never made scale RR models. All they ever produced was "TOYS". > Can not compare the two. AM should be making good stuff if the are going > to call them "MODELS"" > > I haven't been on the list much lately because of carpel tunnel in both > hands, which makes it hard to type, but I have kind of been following the > thread above to which I have to reply. > Weather you call them scale, tinplate, exspensive, cheap, 1/64th scale true > to life every minute detail reproduction of the real thing etc., etc., we > play with them! They are all toys.What's that saying I hear all the time? The > difference between a man and a boy is the cost of the toys? Well, my parents > paid a fortune for my American Flyer toy trains, and now I am paying a > fortune for my toy trains. > I kind of like the AM trains because they are close to the Gilbert trains in > appearance. At least the 1 Southern Baldwin switcher I have is. And the > price I paid of 129.00 is more in line with what I can afford. But on the > other hand I love the S-Helper SW-1 I have because of the detail.Cost a whole > lot more for me to buy though. 200.00.They both run great!!!!! No tweaking > neccesary here. But , The S-Helper engines are very fragile with all the fine > detail. Plus, you get all the other stuff in the box to lose and break, > And pay more for. > I've digressed. Sorry. > Even David Dewey's cars could be considered toys the way he plays with them! > (sorry David) Anyway they are just toys darn it! Now go play with them. I am > . > > Chris B. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12420	From: IronHorse	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Re: Toys

If this moment was in the year of 1959 , I would disagree with the comment below. In the 50's Gilbert trains were considered Scale trains. This is based on the major dimensions. length, width, and height of the model compared to the prototype. The large wheel flanges and big couplers were the only glaring out of scale details. Smaller details were added by more serious "S" scale people. "Wala", A scale model train with a few changes. Try that with L**** trains or Marx. Roger > > > Gilbert never made scale RR models. All they ever produced was "TOYS". > Can not compare the two. AM should be making good stuff if the are going > to call them "MODELS"" > > > Chris B.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12421	From: pieter_roos@yahoo.com	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Re: Toys and Models

This discussion seems to come up every few months. I looked at the definitions of "toy" and "model" in the Cambridge Dictionary Online and found the following: Toy: An object that children play with. Toy is also used to refer to an object which is used by an adult for amusement rather than for serious use. Model: a representation of something, either as a physical object which is usually smaller than the real object, or as a simple description of the object which might be used in calculations. Maybe this is why most people look at us funny when we get all huffy and announce we have models, not toys. Clearly, ALL toy trains are models no matter if they are hand-crafted brass museum pieces or blocks of wood laid out in a line and declared to be a "train". The fidelity of the representation is in question, but they all represent a train in smaller form. They are also all "toys" unless used for some serious purpose. If you are teaching professional railroaders or instructing people about crossing safety in an Operation Lifesaver demonstration, the models used are not toys (even if they are just wooden blocks). If you use them for your own amusement they are toys. Possibly sophisticated toys, but toys none the less. Nor is there any reason for us to be defensive about them. Most poeple have some recreational pursuit that involves "toys". Do golfers explain why they play the game, or fishermen justify owning rods and reels? Some people will not respect any hobby unless it's a: dangerous (hang gliding, mountain climbing) b: makes some people a whole lot of money (golf, football) c: costs a whole lot of money (flying, yachting) or d: they do it themselves. Such people will not be swayed by the "not toys" argument and probably walk away from any talk about simulating a real railroad even more certain we are wacko than if we just said "yeah, COOL toys". The Gilbert and Lionel products were designed to be handled by children, and still often suffered in use (how many AF boxcars have you seen with broken roofwalk ends). While children still seem to enjoy toy trains, the lack of visability of the real thing makes them less in demand, so American Models and SHS make products primarily aimed at adults, hence more fragile. The result is a different esthetic between Gilbert and AM, but even if Gilbert survived and continued producing trains they would probably have evolved. The best we can do is enjoy them for what they are. Pieter --- In S-Trains@y..., "Bill Porter" <wpporter@w...> wrote: > Howdy Gents, > > I love this thread - it gets my heart pumping and it explores the extra added emotional content provided by our common language. > > These things we collect, admire, research, display, create, operate, cuss and discuss are toys. If a yacht that costs multiple millions of dollars is a toy, then our toys are in good company. > > I borrow a bit from the ancient Greek philosophers for the following discussion. We can classify our little trains into three bunches: (1) caricatures, (2) perfect, miniature reproductions and (3) something in between. <SNIP>

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12422	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Re: American Models

PC is taking over. I had a friend in Seattle that was a sanitation engineer, PC for garbage collector. Sec. Watt in the Regan administration who lost his job by using the word CRIPPLE. PC is now MOBILITY CHALLENGED. As far as what others think of model railroaders, what about airplanes, cars, race cars, Barbie dolls, coin collecting, stamp collecting, or even collecting cars driven by famous people. I could go on for ever. In the Seattle area there is a club that build WW2 war ships with guns that fire Beebes at each other. You should see the holes in these models. Have fun what ever way Larry J or lawrence if you prefer Having more fun than than one human should be allowed to have. I do not mind change as long as I don't have to do things differently. David Dewey wrote: > > Ah, Lawrence, Lawrence, >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12423	From: David	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Re: MTH coal towers are in

Tom, give us more info! How does it compare to the originals? Whats the differences? Did they use a can motor or the old reliable Gilbert type? The originals are fairly slow and make some good noise too, but not anywhere near as bad as anything Lionel made with their buzzing contraptions.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12424	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Re: Toys and Models

I am having fun. In fact I am having more fun than one human should be allowed to have. Larry I do not mind change as long I do not have to do things differently !!!!!!!!!!!! 8^0 8^) (GRIN) PS We have the right to freedom of speech but do not have the right to be heard Bill Porter wrote: > > Howdy Gents,

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12425	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Re: "dumbed down" line of trains

I can only speak for myself, but why would I make a model that I would not be proud to run on my own layout? How can we compete with O or HO if our models are not as nice or better. Have you seen some of the stuff coming out of MTH, Lionel or Atlas in O? Or the Spectrum and Proto 2000 line in HO. The reason Lionel is not making new AF is because the market it to small. The way to expand the market is to get new people interested in "S". It is my philosophy that the best way to do that is by making the best that we can. Even ACG went from link couplers to knuckle. Don T. PS Even if you consider starter sets, I think that the most successful starter sets of something that is about S Scale size and feel is the Bachman On30 2-6-0 freight and passenger sets. They have loads of detail (as much as our stuff) and are at a very attractive price. I wish we had the financial backing to make something similar in "S". sgriggs@... wrote: > > " AM and SHS might do well to consider a (for lack of a > > better term) "dumbed down" line of trains with coarse, molded on > > detail or thick-gauge wire handrails (like AF). I think the hirail > > guys would prefer it to what is presently offered and it might look > > better with original Flyer." > > And no, I'm not calling hirail/Flyer guys dumb. I am a hirail/Flyer > guy myself (although I like AM's and SHS's current products). > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New 2nd run reefers are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12426	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Re: And another thing, in defense of Gilbert motors...

Yep I've got one SP GP L loco here that's already dead. The replacement motors don't fit it's motor mounts! The armature bird-nested! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12427	From: sgriggs@umich.edu	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Re: "dumbed down" line of trains

I'm not suggesting that AM and SHS should stop building their scale-detailed locomotives and rolling stock. I'm suggesting that if someone were to introduce an S gauge equivalent to MTH's "Railking" line, it would satisfy pent-up demand for new S gauge hirail equipment similar in detail and construction to Gilbert. The Lionel Flyer is just plain stale--they offer lackluster products and don't understand why they get a lukewarm response in the market. Their lack of success doesn't necessarily prove that no market exists. AM and SHS stuff runs superbly and is beautifully detailed and decorated, but it doesn't have the look and feel of a toy train. Don't get me wrong--I like the new stuff and own a lot of AM and SHS--I just think there is a market for scale-proportioned rolling stock with molded-on detail. - In S-Trains@y..., Robin Thompson <robin@s...> wrote: > I can only speak for myself, but why would I make a model that I would not > be proud to run on my own layout? How can we compete with O or HO if our models > are not as nice or better. Have you seen some of the stuff coming out of MTH, > Lionel or Atlas in O? Or the Spectrum and Proto 2000 line in HO. The reason > Lionel is not making new AF is because the market it to small. The way to > expand the market is to get new people interested in "S". It is my philosophy > that the best way to do that is by making the best that we can. Even ACG went > from link couplers to knuckle. > Don T. > PS Even if you consider starter sets, I think that the most successful starter > sets of something that is about S Scale size and feel is the Bachman On30 2-6-0 > freight and passenger sets. They have loads of detail (as much as our stuff) > and are at a very attractive price. I wish we had the financial backing to make > something similar in "S". >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12428	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: SETS DUMB OR OTHER ....WISE

This is just an idea that a man. like AM or SHS could use to "make" sets more cost effective to them...Some thing like the Chine. menu thing of picking from each list.... say list "A" would have the engines Pick one from that list.... next cars that you could pick let say 4 cars of your choice and road name last a track package....This way no dealer is stuck with a seldom bought "Whole" set the buyer gets the set discount and gets to choose if he/she wants all boxcars or a mix of different cars there is no packaged set that just sits there because the buyer doesn't want a caboose or a tank car Maybe the buyer gets a 10% discount coupon for his next purchase of 4cars or more.....this I think would give the buyer a lot more interest in the "Set" he is buying and the dealers don't get stuck with boxed sets.....Just a thought...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12429	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Re: SETS DUMB OR OTHER ....WISE

Hey Mike, that's a great idea. I would even consider buying a "set" like that. Roger Petrella Franktown, CO anormal1@... wrote: > This is just an idea that a man. like AM or SHS could use to "make" sets more > cost effective to them...Some thing like the Chine. menu thing of picking > from each list.... say list "A" would have the engines Pick one from that > list.... next cars that you could pick let say 4 cars of your choice and road > name last a track package....This way no dealer is stuck with a seldom bought > "Whole" set the buyer gets the set discount and gets to choose if he/she > wants all boxcars or a mix of different cars there is no packaged set that > just sits there because the buyer doesn't want a caboose or a tank car Maybe > the buyer gets a 10% discount coupon for his next purchase of 4cars or > more.....this I think would give the buyer a lot more interest in the "Set" > he is buying and the dealers don't get stuck with boxed sets.....Just a > thought... > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12430	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: SETS DUMD OR OTHER...WISE

You may just get rolled....Mike

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12431	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Re: Toys and Models

Amen to Larry's comment. lawrence jackman wrote: > > I am having fun. > In fact I am having more fun than one human should be allowed to have. > Larry > I do not mind change as long I do not have to do things differently > !!!!!!!!!!!! 8^0 8^) (GRIN) > PS We have the right to freedom of speech but do not have the right to > be heard Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12432	From: SMITTY@tir.com	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: (no subject)

So when I got home tonight, there were 48 messages on my machine, all but three were posts from this list, most had something to say about the current, rather pasionate thread, about AM / scale / toy "discussion". There are some good points to what some had to say. Tolerance: Geeze-Louise guys, we're all in this s-thing together, be it scale, hi-rail or other. What tickles me may not do the same for you or the next guy or maybe even anyone else that subscribes to this list, but our commonality here is that we enjoy models that are 1/64 the size of the protoype. We like two rails versus three. The diversity that is possible now as opposed to ten or fifteen years ago is great. We've got the antique Flyer that were pretty robustly made. Some of us, like myself, take great delight in these 50 year old pieces and methodically take them apart and go through each assembly and make the appropriate repairs until it runs like it did when new. We've got the hi-rail equipment that is very nice, most of it runs great right out of the box ( based on the posts made here in the past day or two ). These appeal to those of us that like the finer detail and/or do not have the patience or knowledge or desire to fuss with the antique equipment to get it running as well as they'd like. Omnicon ( if they're still in business ) and River Raisin do the brass scale stuff that delights still others. When painted well they look amazingly like the prototype, only smaller. Some are bought simply to shelve and admire ( another facet of the hobby ) and some are purchased to run on large, finely detailed layouts. Delicate ? Yes. Robust ? Maybe... derail one at speed and you'll have an amazing recreation of the mess that the big ones make of themselves when they lay over at 50 mph ! The point is, we all like the 3/16 equipment. There's enough variations to keep most of us happy. It'd get pretty boring if the only thing we all liked were Flyer 343 0-8-0's ( and Mike S. would have more than any of us ! ) Problems out of the box: Certainly there will be some who have the misfortune of getting a bad order car right from the factory. I had trouble with a set of AM heavyweights in that the couplers needed some tweaking. Since I like fiddling and repairing, I did what was necessary and made them run right. Should I have had to do that ? Probably not. But to get a set of heavyweight LN Flyer, I'd have had to shell out a bunch more dollars. To me, the difference in cost was large enough that the problems of the AM were negligible. Since then, there's been no problems. Did ACG have trouble with their stuff ? You betcha.... there was the time when they tried another variation of plastic for the insulating whitewalls and the material shrunk after molding and installing. They had to send out repairmen all over the country to open up sets and boxes and drill and pin the tires onto the centers using wooden pins ( I've got a 312 or 316 that was one of them ). So even the really big firms had their production and quality control problems. The point is, none of the current producers are raking in big profits. I've been to AM's headquarters in South Lyon, it's not big, it's not fancy and I didn't see Ron driving a BMW. From what I've read on this list, it would appear that he has tried to make good on the problem children that got out of the plant. If not, think about this: How did YOU approach him with you complaint ? Did you jump down his throat ? Even if unintentional, it may have seemed that way and the dander got up and no, you probably didn't get what you wanted. Scale/toy/model: No matter how you slice it, there is some compromise made between what we have in our basement layouts and what these things were copied after. The degree of compromise is in the eye of the beholder. To me, for a MASS-PRODUCED, die-cast piece, such as the ACG Hudson, Northern or K-5, Gilbert did a more than ceditable job in reproducing them from the original. Size, more than anything limits the amount of true-to-life 1/64 detail that can be built into any model, scale, semi-scale or toy. Even with the highest fidelity, one-off brass piece, you'll not likely be able to open the journal box lid on the tender truck, pull out some waste, and remove the journal brass or wedge that SHOULD, ( for accuracy's sake ), be located within ! What's acceptable to me may not be acceptable to the next guy as far as compromise, again it's a matter of personal likes and dislikes. As was stated in someone else's post, the current producers are doing their level best to listen the multiple wants and desires of a fairly small group of consumers and fill their needs as well as they can. I'm sure if the market and profit was there Don and Ron would gladly tool up separate dies for those that like rtr Flyer duplicates, as well as the highly detailed, fairly fragile cars others of us like. The reality is, the market isn't big enough and the profit margin isn't either, so we damn well ought to be appreciative there's anything out here at all that doesn't require major kit bashing or building from scratch. Don, Ron and all the suppliers of repro parts are to be commended for their comittment to this group. So I'll get off the soap box and beg forgiveness from C.Z. for being long winded ! Regard"S", Smitty

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12433	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Two bits worth on AM, SHS, AC Gilbert

I have enjoyed all the banter and opinions that have been rampant the past few days. I just can't keep still anymore, so here is the way I see it. I won't argue the "toys" Vs "models" points because they are moot. I also think that AM and SHS are today's saviors of S-Gauge. If AC Gilbert were alive and in business today, he would be building the same type of products that they are. We need to remember folks that the technology of the 50's has no comparison to the technology of today. The difference in manufacturing philosophy would be very evident because he would have continued making Steam Locos and sets as the technology changed. Today's manufacturers are just hesitant to jump into making 0-8-0s and the like because the messages being sent to them are so confusing. They just aren't getting a clear picture of what S-Gaugers would buy. I think the Pacific made by AM is terrific and I have a New Haven. I run it more than any of my classic Flyer pieces because of it's state of the art features. It has quit running twice but I was able to fix it both times. The wiring is very fragile on these but needs to be. Would I have another one? Absolutely. My Flyer Locos require work on a regular basis too. These beauties that today's manufacturers are making now allow me to let the 316, 326, 336 , etc., rest in the display cases. The fabulous, beautiful rolling stock that SHS makes allows the Flyer stock to rest too. I thank today's manufacturers for giving me the chance to let the rarer Flyer pieces that I have set and gain value while I look at them and run the SHS and AM. If one of them decides to make another Steam Loco, I'll buy it. I'll always be a Flyer lover first and foremost but these guys are who are keeping "S" alive today. Just my two bits worth Steve Blackburn, TCA...NASG...RMHR Boise, Idaho [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12434	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Re: SETS DUMB OR OTHER ....WISE

I can't speak for S-Helper, but if you visit their site that have lots of starter sets at great prices and they bend over backward to get you hooked up with the loco and cars that you want. http://showcaseline.com/startersets_in_stock.html or http://showcaseline.com Support the people that make quality trains and supply quality service! S is alive and well. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12435	From: Dick Kuepper	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: S Manufacturers

I have read the diatribe for and against one S manufacturer and another, and have only one thing to say - A.C. Gilbert is dead, Lionel makes junk, and long live SHS and American Models! I have both, and I love them both. I would love to see MTH take off from manufacturing ACG accessories to making S running equipment, but I think the scale is doing great right now. Thanks SHS and AM. Dick [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12436	From: aztecfan@yahoo.com	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: AF vs Scale

Seems to me that curent HO still has big wheel flanges and hook couplers. Flyer is just old scale. I wanted to show a movie to S people and one guy says he is into scale and is not interested. The movie is AF and Scale. I have an AF collection, but I also have more scale then most scale people. It is their loss. Getting a group of S gauges together is like hurding cats. Homestead said I have not worked on my web site in 6 months so I need to up date it or lose it. I was hoping to get some help. So I will try and get an up date and tell you guys to log on to make Homestead happy, even though I may not be happy with the result. Jim Sleeth

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12437	From: Ktrdd@AOL.com	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Toys

Hi Gang, Most on this list must remember: If you dropped a western electric rotary telephone set, it suffered no ill effects. Maybe the bell went "bong or 2" and the ID plate fell off, but the phone was fine. I don't think the electronic stuff can suffer those falls without a doubt? I wouldn't want my AM or SHS stuff to take a fall. Sure-please, can someone make a bland ACG type item? I still love to run my AF stuff just as before. If there is a statement to be made about today's world: we live in a much more fragile world---literally! (but also more flexible?). Would you try sitting on your car these days? John R

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12438	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: sad

There are as many ways to enjoy this hobby as there are people enjoying it. That said and respected, I have to say that it seems really sad to me to put one's Gilbert American Flyer locos on a display shelf and just run new stuff. Really sad. Sure it's great to have some new 'faces' and body types to run, but are they nice enough to push the Gilberts out of the picture? Most of those old locos run great with a little care and attention. Nothing compares with the excitement of operating a 40 or 50 year old Flyer loco. And sitting there running the new stuff while the old Flyer increases in value is silly. Value to whom? We are the generation who loved Flyer trains; to all other generations they are mostly a curiosity. And those old locos aren't much of an investment vehicle either. All that tin, zinc, steel, brass, copper, nickel, and bronze are constantly busy reacting away with each other. Paper, cardboard, rubber, unstable early plastic, paint, decals, inks, are all decaying at who knows what rate. An old toy train can become instant junk at any second. Maybe I'm missing something here, but I just don't see it. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12439	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Re: Two bits worth on AM, SHS, AC Gilbert

I totally disagree with you. If ACG was a live today he would be making the same Thing he made back then. There was good technology then. It had to be done by hand. Today you have the same machines (lathes, mills) controlled by computers so you can do it faster. My Mold maker makes molds on a Gorden Pantograph by hand and turns out just as good models as the Chinese are making on CNC controlled machines. His limitations are base on the information I give him and that would hold true with a CNC machine. The finished products is only as good as the information furnished to your mold maker. ACG could have turned out better stuff in the 50s because they were doing it in other scales. There is nothing wrong with AF, High rail or fine scale. To each his own. Have fun. Play with your toys or run your Railroad. With reference to Mark Twin. When you can not win your argument, resort to insults. It shows your mental age. And as I have said before the average mental age of the American adult is 13. Information furnished by the US government. Larry J Having more fun than one human should be allowed to have

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12440	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Re: S Manufacturers

You hit the nail on the head. Larry J Having more fun than one human should be allowed to have Dick Kuepper wrote: > > I have read the diatribe for and against one S manufacturer and another, and have only one thing to say - A.C. Gilbert is dead, Lionel makes junk, and long live SHS and American Models! I have both, and I love them both. I would love to see MTH take off from manufacturing ACG accessories to making S running equipment, but I think the scale is doing great right now. Thanks SHS and AM. > > Dick > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12441	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Re: SETS DUMB OR OTHER ....WISE

We do that now, all you have to do is ask. Many hobby shops have gotten custom sets. Some even get engines that do not match the caboose. If you calculate the MSRP of individual items vs. sets, some setsaare 40% off of retail. Don T. anormal1@... wrote: > This is just an idea that a man. like AM or SHS could use to "make" sets more > cost effective to them...Some thing like the Chine. menu thing of picking > from each list.... say list "A" would have the engines Pick one from that > list.... next cars that you could pick let say 4 cars of your choice and road > name last a track package....This way no dealer is stuck with a seldom bought > "Whole" set the buyer gets the set discount and gets to choose if he/she > wants all boxcars or a mix of different cars there is no packaged set that > just sits there because the buyer doesn't want a caboose or a tank car Maybe > the buyer gets a 10% discount coupon for his next purchase of 4cars or > more.....this I think would give the buyer a lot more interest in the "Set" > he is buying and the dealers don't get stuck with boxed sets.....Just a > thought... > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New 2nd run reefers are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12442	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Re: Two bits worth on AM, SHS, AC Gilbert

Larry, You're going to trust statistics from the US Government?? Hey, I worked for the US Census last year, I KNOW they don't don't know what they're doing! ;-) Probably they overestimated, I'd say about 8!! But back to fun with trains, I just couldn't resist this chance at a dig to the Gov't. I think ACG would have changed too, look at the uh, "stuff" they were making towards the end, that showed a major change from their previous thinking. And the stuff they produced really was state of the acceptable art of their time. Their mold makers were more artistic than L's, even L's recent stuff. Just look at the new cupola caboose, it lacks the asthetic details that classic AF has/had. Some of us have stated that it looks like a shrunk down 0-27 job, and that's because of the lack of neat 'eye detail' that the ACG mold makers had. Look at the catwalk ends if you want to know what I'm talking about. ACGs imitates the end bracing and has a nearly scale thin end, L's are just square thick ends. The little stuff adds up when looking at the entire piece, even if you can't put your finger on it (the difference, that is). S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12443	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 3/27/2001
Subject: Re: And another thing, in defense of Gilbert motors

I'm curious. How many hours, in actual running time, has anyone been able to squeeze from a pair of brushes in a Gilbert steam loco motor before replacement brushes are needed? I know that Jim Weatherford, a prominent Lionel repair "guru", has stated that the brushes in Lionel's similarly designed motors last about 50 to 60 hours, but I don't recall ever having heard any official word about Flyer brushes. Maybe Tom Jarcho can give us a figure on AF steamer brush life. Tom? Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12444	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 3/28/2001
Subject: Re: And another thing, in defense of Gilbert motors...

David Dewey wrote: >Yep I've got one SP GP L loco here that's already dead. The >replacement >motors don't fit it's motor mounts! The armature bird-nested! >S' David, all is not lost. Lionel went to an upgraded motor in 1990. The newer motor has a different part number than the old one used in the SP geep. (That came out in '87, as I recall.) The newer motor is the same size and basic shape as the old GE "dirty white" motor, but has a different mount as you found out. It also has much better performance than the GE motor. I put the newer motor in my SF GP "20" after burning out the GE motor by hauling 10 cars on level track for almost an hour. (I HAD a standing policy of not running either of my LTI geeps for more than 20 minutes without a cool-down period, but, I got distracted answering questions at a show, and, well, next thing I knew the engine was moving very slowly and emitting the tell-tale odor of hot wire enamel. After an hour of cooling down, it still ran very poorly. Motor was cooked.) The new motor can be attached to the old mount with some modifications to the mount at the brush end of the motor. Takes some filing, but it can be done. (A Dremel tool is a big help here.) I resorted to altering the mount after several months of trying to get Lionel to send me the newer mount. Never could get one, but that was during Lionel's big managerial tumult right after R. Kughn sold out. It may be possible to get a newer mount now. If properly installed, the new motor will upgrade the geep's performance considerably. It will turn a marginal shelf queen into an adequate hauler, something that Sir Topham Hatt might call "a useful engine" (though maybe not "a VERY useful engine.") Regarding can motors, if anyone's can motor experiences have been had with Lionel's AF locos ONLY, I don't blame them for being wary of cans. I have regaled many a dealer with the news that the can motor Lionel used from 1982 to 1990 is a certified "sofm" (smattering of fecal matter.) However, it is such ON IT'S OWN, not because it happens to be a can motor. There are excellent can motors out there, some are used in AM and SHS locos. Something else that must be noted where can motors and AF/LTI locos are concerned is the poorly designed retrofit that Lionel employed in the conversion. Not only is the design mechanically inefficient, it is thermally wrong. The truck's plastic mount assures that any heat generated by the motor will be prevented from escaping into the metal truck chassis (the GE motor itself has no air vents). Given the motor's other shortcomings, burn-out is almost guaranteed if you use the loco to drag more than thin air for very long. "Kluge job" defines the whole mess pretty well. It supports the notion held by some, that initially Lionel never intended their re-issued postwar locos to be run, but just displayed on shelves. (One O gauger I met at the TTOS convention in Long Beach in 1991 told me of an interesting phone conversation he had with a "gal" at Lionel. He was trying to get info on a loco he'd sent in for factory service. After registering a few complaints about how his new loco ran, she allegedly said, "Oh, you RUN them? They're only made to LOOK at!") I don't know if that really was Lionel's policy in the late '80s or not. If it was, I have a feeling they've changed it since then, for O gauge stuff, anyway. All that said, I think it is a mistake to write can motors off based on experience with LTI/AF locos exclusively. I have enough AM and SHS locos to know good cans work very well, for a very long time with very little maintenance. Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12445	From: David	Date: 3/28/2001
Subject: Figures & Signs Needed

Hello fellow S-Fans. I am trying to complete a #30 Highway Signs kit, and a 578 Station Figures kit. If anyone has any single pieces in EX original unbroken condition they are willing to part with, please e- mail me with what you have and the asking price. Thanks...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12446	From: IronHorse	Date: 3/28/2001
Subject: Toy or scale ?

> > I would like to see someone take a Never run Af Gilbert loco > and one of each > other manufactures equivalent loco. Run them non stop see > which one lasts > longest. Let each one hit the floor. Which suffers the least > damage. > Better yet let kids run the test for durability. > > Anyway -- I don't care. I enjoy all of the trains :o)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12447	From: IronHorse	Date: 3/28/2001
Subject: Smudged windows

> > I imagine a lot of you would like a response to the > following situation. > In one of my models I installed clear plastic windows. > I bit of testors glue got smudged on it. No matter how > hard a person tries to avoid it this happens on occasion. > Anyway can this smudge be removed or buffed ? > > Roger Http://travel.to/cofa

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12448	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 3/28/2001
Subject: Re: "dumbed down" line of trains (and other things)

Don Thompson wrote: > I can only speak for myself, but why would I make a model that I would not > be proud to run on my own layout? How can we compete with O or HO if our models > are not as nice or better. Have you seen some of the stuff coming out of MTH, > Lionel or Atlas in O? Or the Spectrum and Proto 2000 line in HO. The reason > Lionel is not making new AF is because the market it to small. The way to > expand the market is to get new people interested in "S". It is my philosophy > that the best way to do that is by making the best that we can. Even ACG went > from link couplers to knuckle. > Don T. > PS Even if you consider starter sets, I think that the most successful starter > sets of something that is about S Scale size and feel is the Bachman On30 2-6-0 > freight and passenger sets. They have loads of detail (as much as our stuff) > and are at a very attractive price. I wish we had the financial backing to make > something similar in "S". I heartily agree with Don. To make a product anything less than the other scale/gauge competition would be suicide. The closest thing to a dumbed-down set in recent years was the Ertl set. That set was indeed a toy. Although good for what it was, is that how we would want to portray S as a viable alternative to O and HO? --- Did two train shows this month with our modular group. Out of the 24 trains run over a three day period, we ran mostly SHS an AM stuff, two hours per train, (AND...mostly in their HiRail configurations, although a couple of scale versions snuck in.) only one of which was a Flyer train. Fear not...Flyer was well represented by one member's module with many old and rare Flyer accessories. Was a big hit with the kids. Many viewers were impressed on how GOOD the "new stuff" looks and runs. SHS catalogs flew off the display table. Even some HO guys from a VERY excellent modular group took more than one admiring look at our layout. (Well.... they couldn't escape us, they were next to us at both shows.) Of course, we had to answer the tough questions: "How much does it cost?" and "Where can I buy it?", but that's fodder for another thread. But the fact is: we displayed S, it ran well, it looked as good as the HO, N, G and 3-rail O being displayed by others, and that S is not dead. Did we win any converts? Don't know, only time will tell. Be seeing you... Rich G.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12449	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 3/28/2001
Subject: Re: Smudged windows

Try lapping with tooth paste. It will take time and a lot of elbow "grease". Or a very fine diamond lapping compound, say 20,000 or 30,000 grit. You can start it with 1500 grit wet and dry paper. Larry IronHorse wrote: > > > > > I imagine a lot of you would like a response to the > > following situation. > > In one of my models I installed clear plastic windows. > > I bit of testors glue got smudged on it. No matter how > > hard a person tries to avoid it this happens on occasion. > > Anyway can this smudge be removed or buffed ? > > > > Roger Http://travel.to/cofa > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12450	From: pieter_roos@yahoo.com	Date: 3/28/2001
Subject: Re: Two bits worth on AM, SHS, AC Gilbert

I would hope that had ACG survived they would have taken a different direction than the F unit, Casey Jones and Pikemaster, at least ultimately. Maybe a be something like Lionel's O line now. I is inconceivable to me that they would survive and be doing the same thing they were in 1956. The reality is AF is the poor stepchild for Lionel, and there is no evidence so far that they will ever improve te line or add any really "new" models. Pieter --- In S-Trains@y..., "David Dewey" <djdewey@c...> wrote: > Larry, <SNIP> > I think ACG would have changed too, look at the uh, "stuff" they were > making towards the end, that showed a major change from their previous > thinking. And the stuff they produced really was state of the acceptable art > of their time. Their mold makers were more artistic than L's, even L's > recent stuff. Just look at the new cupola caboose, it lacks the asthetic > details that classic AF has/had. Some of us have stated that it looks like a > shrunk down 0-27 job, and that's because of the lack of neat 'eye detail' > that the ACG mold makers had. Look at the catwalk ends if you want to know > what I'm talking about. ACGs imitates the end bracing and has a nearly scale > thin end, L's are just square thick ends. The little stuff adds up when > looking at the entire piece, even if you can't put your finger on it (the > difference, that is). > S' > David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12451	From: pieter_roos@yahoo.com	Date: 3/28/2001
Subject: Re: Smudged windows

After the toothpaste finish off with a coat or two of Future Floor polish and buff lightly. Pieter --- In S-Trains@y..., lawrence jackman <ljack70117@a...> wrote: > Try lapping with tooth paste. It will take time and a lot of elbow > "grease". > Or a very fine diamond lapping compound, say 20,000 or 30,000 grit. You > can start it with 1500 grit wet and dry paper. > Larry > > IronHorse wrote: > > > > > > > > I imagine a lot of you would like a response to the > > > following situation. > > > In one of my models I installed clear plastic windows. > > > I bit of testors glue got smudged on it. No matter how > > > hard a person tries to avoid it this happens on occasion. > > > Anyway can this smudge be removed or buffed ? > > > > > > Roger Http://travel.to/cofa > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@e... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12452	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/28/2001
Subject: Re: "dumbed down" line of trains (and other things)

So far the majority of comments on a (I prefer the word "Simplified" ) starter set have related stories about exciting existing model railroaders. I think what started this post was the idea of a set that could possibly compete out there in Discount Land with other starter sets. I also believe the idea was not to create stuff that you'd be ashamed of, but stuff without the add-on detail parts, very similar to the Industrial Rails caboose that was offered to the O 27 groups, but actually has an S sized body. I have one of these, and I'm not ashamed to put it on my layout. It also looks compatible with both AF, as it isn't "delicate" and with much of the modern detailed production, as it does have much detail. The unfortunate thing, is that, within the quantities currently produced, it probably costs as much to make this car as to make a detailed car! However, if you added trucks without springs, you might save some more bucks. I don't think TOY trains need sprung trucks. I remember having some HO stuff as a kid, and while the sprung trucks were "cool" they were also often apart! I never found the HO stuff as satisfying to play with as the S stuff, so stopped using it fast (it was a bunch of stuff inherited from some older relatives). It was just to delicate for my motor skills then. (ahem, we won't talk about my motor skills now, will we?) So Don, Yes I would hope someone would make models they might not want to run on their LAYOUT, but would be proud to give a child to run on the FLOOR! Of course that hope includes making them in quantities sufficient enough to sell them at "Wally World" for something under $150, or hopefully $100. IMHO, that's the consumer price resistance level for casual toy train purchasing. Of course, there will always be modelers who will take these cheap trains and rebuild them into detailed stuff! Gee, these rose colored glasses even make my neighborhood look good! Now if I could just put them on some potential house buyers. . . . . S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12453	From: trainzz99@aol.com	Date: 3/28/2001
Subject: UNSCRIBE

Please take me off the list Thank You trainzz99@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12454	From: Al	Date: 3/28/2001
Subject: APO white metal passenger car

Hi S gaugers and American Flyer friends, Let's get back to trains. Here is one for you to figure out: About a year ago I bought some American Flyer items from a fellow who had moved to Utah from California, some of which were American Flyer O gauge (AFO) - pre-war items. I bought about half of the items he had for sale, one of which was an AFO heavy weight passenger car with the spring-loaded doors on each end. The shell was in VG condition but the chassis was cracked around the truck rivets. I thought a little epoxy would repair this but never got around to it. I had forgotten about the warning that Tom Jarcho put out about APO white metal being able to disintigrate at a moments notice. So I left the car wrapped in a box of items that need repairs. I just opened the box up recently and, even though it had not been touched for 10 months or so, the metal had given way and the two trucks were broken out of the chassis. I tried to pick it up and it did as Tom said it would -- it literal turned to dust .... breaks your heart to see this happen. What remains of the chassis is small pieces about the size of pearls that crumble into dust when touched. The trucks are okay but the rest of the chassis is now in a sandwich baggy - gray crumbled dust. Now, I have the two trucks and the shell but no chassis for it. Anyone know if a heavy weight chassis or a chassis from a 650 would work with this shell? Has anyone already changed frames on other APO passenger cars? I believe this shell is painted Bakelite plastic. I would still like to use it if possible (it is really nice looking). A 3-car set of these would look really great. Any of you have this experience. If anyone has other APO passenger cars like this that need a home, email me off line. Al Rawdon alr@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12455	From: Thomas Stoltz	Date: 3/28/2001
Subject: turnouts

Hi, I'm looking for info on building turnouts using code 148 rail. I would like to run AF and Hi-rail through the turnouts. I'm using AM 148 flex track and AM #4 turnouts, but would like to make my own. Thanks, Tom [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12456	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 3/28/2001
Subject: Re: APO white metal passenger car

That is zamac with lead contamination. nothing you can do. Larry Al wrote: > > Hi S gaugers and American Flyer friends, > > Let's get back to trains. Here is one for you to figure out: > > About a year ago I bought some American Flyer items from a fellow who > had moved to Utah from California, some of which were American Flyer > O gauge (AFO) - pre-war items. I bought about half of the items he had > for sale, one of which was an AFO heavy weight passenger car with the > spring-loaded doors on each end. The shell was in VG condition but the > chassis was cracked around the truck rivets. I thought a little epoxy > would > repair this but never got around to it. I had forgotten about the > warning that > Tom Jarcho put out about APO white metal being able to disintigrate at a > > moments notice. So I left the car wrapped in a box of items that need > repairs. > > I just opened the box up recently and, even though it had not been > touched > for 10 months or so, the metal had given way and the two trucks were > broken > out of the chassis. I tried to pick it up and it did as Tom said it > would -- it literal > turned to dust .... breaks your heart to see this happen. What remains > of the > chassis is small pieces about the size of pearls that crumble into dust > when > touched. The trucks are okay but the rest of the chassis is now in a > sandwich > baggy - gray crumbled dust. > > Now, I have the two trucks and the shell but no chassis for it. Anyone > know if > a heavy weight chassis or a chassis from a 650 would work with this > shell? Has > anyone already changed frames on other APO passenger cars? > > I believe this shell is painted Bakelite plastic. I would still like to > use it if possible > (it is really nice looking). A 3-car set of these would look really > great. Any of you > have this experience. If anyone has other APO passenger cars like this > that need > a home, email me off line. > > Al Rawdon > alr@... > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12457	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 3/28/2001
Subject: LTI sales pressure

Just noticed a statement on a flyer (heh) from Ron Leventon offering the new Lionel Flyer items. This statement struck me as OUTRAGEOUS: "Lionel, L.L.C. has presented S Gauge collectors with a nice offering of Amerian Flyer Accessories and Rolling Stock with the idea that you will purchase them. Results of this year's sales will determine what they will offer in the future." Well, I am not excited by the accessories, all of which have been previously reproduced or are about to be. The new rolling stock is garbage. Are they saying that if we don't buy this batch of garbage, LTI won't make any more Flyer? There is a definite disconnect between LTI and the S Gauge market. Perhaps we could come up with a group statement to LTI that would outline what we percieve as some of their shortcomings. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12458	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 3/28/2001
Subject: residue

Sorry to interrupt the string of toys vs models vs AM vs AF vs SHS vs whatever with something about trains, but I thought I'd let you know I tried the technique of soaking an ACG AF item in a water and baking soda solution to remove white "mold" from it. This worked pretty well, but not as well as 10:1 water to Murphy's oil soap solution. That really loosens the gunk and leaves the plastic looking great. The only draw back is a bit of Murphy's odor lingers on the object, but that eventually goes away. Also, Tarnex really brightens up back railing of an observation car, just be sure to first remove it from the car and keep the Tarnex away from the AF Lines decal. ---Trains--- They're all worth, what you paid for them. And worthwhile, if you enjoy them. Dave [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12459	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 3/28/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 950

BROWN HOIST OUTRIGGERS. See picture in 1952 catalog page 25 769 A BEACON. The higher the altitude, the thinner the air, the harder they are to get working. Jerry 77-11644 ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12460	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 3/28/2001
Subject: More 302 AC questions

A couple of questions on fixing my DOA 302ac: 1) The armature seems to have a fair amount of play front to back, as if it was missing a washer. It starts to turn when power is applied, but quickly looses any contact with the brushes and there is a gap (which looks to be about the size of a small brass washer). There is one on the end where the worm is, but was not one on the other. Could it be that simple?? 2) There is no wick for the oil at the front end of the armature, and in fact the end of the shaft is visible. What material can be used to create a wick and seal this to keep dust and dirt out. Any help greatly appreciated. Thanks, Tom _---_---_---______--__--___+-----+||] [||####### B & O #####|______||_____ || pjpennington@... __| [][] |__ || ||_______________________/ _| B&O |___\_|| | ||| | | | | | | / | 4212 | # ||| | []|=|==================o=====o==================|=|[] /|-||(0)|=|(0)|=|(O) |_________| (0)|=|(0)|=|(O)||-|\ ======================================================== [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12461	From: J_Gasal@Compuserve.com	Date: 3/28/2001
Subject: MTH Coal Loader delivery

Has anyone received their coal loader from MTH or heard when it may be shipped? Ordered mine last July & seems like a long wait! John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12462	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 3/28/2001
Subject: Re: residue

Now back to our regular programing Larry david_horn@... wrote: > > Sorry to interrupt the string of toys vs models vs AM vs AF vs SHS vs > whatever with something about trains, but I thought I'd let you know I

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12463	From: IronHorse	Date: 3/28/2001
Subject: Train Price guide

Hi Guy"S" I was in a book store today and happened to check out books on antiques. I came across a book called, O'briens book on train collectibles. It has an AF Gilbert section for "S" and Gilbert HO. Scanning through it I got the impression everything is listed. The prices look more realistic than other price guides. Thought some of you might be interested. Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12464	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 3/28/2001
Subject: (train sets) ....something under $150

Dear David, Wally world would want 50+10 as a discount plus net 90 days, also you have to eat any returns. How would you pay for tooling, unit cost, shipping and then advertising? Even at $150. the market that you are talking about would buy the Lifelike set for $19.95 because it was cheaper. Even the Bachman On30 sets were more than that. Don David Dewey wrote:....to sell them at "Wally World" for something under $150, or hopefully $100. IMHO, -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New 2nd run reefers are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12465	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 3/28/2001
Subject: Re: Another S Project Shelved

> FWIW, I have two RI-painted FP-7s that first ran at the 1984 NMRA convention here when we put out modules with the ones from Detroit. They still run, just not much opportunity for it lately. DE [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12466	From: gino restivo	Date: 3/28/2001
Subject: Re: LTI sales pressure

very good idea Tom , since i've had no response to previous letters to LT I , WOULD YOU BE THE SPOKESPERSON ..... ? or could we contact some one directly thru E-MAIL maybe ..... ? I realy don't care to purchase a train (eg: U.P .pass set ) and have to spend 3 + hours to fix the .......................... thing ...... ! after 3 letters and not 1 response ,then they lied thru their teeth at the toy fair .... ! about parts availability and warranty repair's / warranty part's ....... you don't want me in contact with them .. Gino / gsr -----Original Message----- From: jarcho@... <jarcho@...> To: S-trains@yahoogroups.com <S-trains@yahoogroups.com> Date: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 4:15 PM Subject: [S-Trains] LTI sales pressure >Just noticed a statement on a flyer (heh) from Ron Leventon offering the >new Lionel Flyer items. > >This statement struck me as OUTRAGEOUS: > >"Lionel, L.L.C. has presented S Gauge collectors with a nice offering of >Amerian Flyer Accessories and Rolling Stock with the idea that you will >purchase them. Results of this year's sales will determine what they will >offer in the future." > >Well, I am not excited by the accessories, all of which have been >previously reproduced or are about to be. The new rolling stock is >garbage. > >Are they saying that if we don't buy this batch of garbage, LTI won't make >any more Flyer? > >There is a definite disconnect between LTI and the S Gauge market. Perhaps >we could come up with a group statement to LTI that would outline what we >percieve as some of their shortcomings. > > >Tom Jarcho > > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Shop online without a credit card http://www.rocketcash.com RocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12467	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 3/28/2001
Subject: Re: More 302 AC questions (Success!)

It's a beautiful thing to see a 50 year old locomotive that was DOA take off and haul ass around the track after some TLC (plus a few Rolaids and some swearing). The problem turned out to be 2 things, one was a broken wire in the tender, which when fixed turned up the second problem, a sticking reverse unit. I flooded it with some Radio Shack Electrical Cleaner and gently brushed the barrel and contacts. I then manually worked the barrel around several times and used a can of air to dry it off. Put power to the tender and the reverse unit worked like a champ. I then put the whole thing back together, put it on the track, and off she went. Thanks for all the help, I would not have known where to start otherwise. Tom _---_---_---______--__--___+-----+||] [||####### B & O #####|______||_____ || pjpennington@... __| [][] |__ || ||_______________________/ _| B&O |___\_|| | ||| | | | | | | / | 4212 | # ||| | []|=|==================o=====o==================|=|[] /|-||(0)|=|(0)|=|(O) |_________| (0)|=|(0)|=|(O)||-|\ ======================================================== [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12468	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/28/2001
Subject: JOHN ELCHMANN

John Elchmann ( Rocky Mt. High Railers) Would you please contact me....Need your address and E-mail address ....Mike

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12469	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 3/28/2001
Subject: Here is boys, the MTH Coaling tower already on eBay!

Go to the link, complete with picture.... http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1128715546 We don't have ours yet, but eBay already has one for sale. Hmmmm......

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12470	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 3/28/2001
Subject: LTI sales pressure

Tom J. wrote: >Are they saying that if we don't buy this batch of garbage, LTI >won't make >any more Flyer? Probably, Tom. They've said that every year since Kughn took over. Same old story. They try to get us to buy the current meager offerings either by making very soft promises of "good things to come" or by threatening to bury AF (which, for all intents and purposes, they've done already.) >There is a definite disconnect between LTI and the S Gauge market. Sure is. The relationship is downright dysfunctional, thanks to Lionel. >Perhaps we could come up with a group statement to LTI that would >outline what we >percieve as some of their shortcomings. I don't mean to discourage such an effort. But after conducting my own amicable exchange of correspondence with Lionel a few years back (and they're less open to serious AF production now than they were then when O gauge competition wasn't so fierce), I can guess what their response would be: "Thank you for your input. Many of your ideas dovetail with our current plans..." (Yeah, right.) And things will go on just as they are, at best. Sorry to be so pessimistic, Tom. Many have tried to wake Lionel up vis-a-vis AF, but in the mighty jungle, the Lion still chooses to sleep. Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12471	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/29/2001
Subject: Re: Here is boys, the MTH Coaling tower already on eBay!

Interesting, The control button looks AF, down to the metal center button, but has "MTH Electric Trains" instead of "AF" hmm. So maybe the rest of us will see our loaders before Tax Day! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12472	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/29/2001
Subject: Re: (train sets) ....something under $150

Don, Well, I never said it would be easy, or profitable!! It was mostly a "gee wiz" proposal. But one I would probably undertake if I won the Lottery. Might as well lose the money that way as any other! As another piano tuner replied, when he won the lottery, "What are you going to do now?" "Well, guess I'll just keep tuning pianos until the money runs out." ;-) S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12473	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 3/29/2001
Subject: Starter Set for S Gauge

Gentlemen, I support Don's comments 100%. With that said, how about a different approch to the distribution. We are all out there at some point or another at shows. etc. telling anyone interested about S gauge. If we could all agree to have these low end packages assembled and available to the clubs, dealers, non profit organizations, we could sell them at these locations to folks who are interested, but are not sure which gauge to support. The current network of NASG locations would be a great place to start and as a club member at a show is asked about S gauge , they could either recomend this product, or, if not real good at public contact, refer them to another member at the show who is able to expand on our goals. Yeh, this is a slow start and a lot of commerical issues need to be worked out, but it could work if we are truely interested in growing S Gauge. I will share a similar effort we experienced in the 1970's when we had a full line hobby shop here in Berks county. Marklin was having a real tough time getting new business and the main problem was the cost, not to mention the incompatability with other HO (2 rail). They made up a starter set using the least expensive rolling stock in their standard line, built a small loco which was not in the line, added some of their great track and the smallest pack. The retail of all the stuff came to approx. $ 75. The dealers bought these in packs of 4 and were able to sell them at a reduced mark up for $25. When someone came in with a brand new Tyco or AHM set that didn't work, the dealers would show this very European looking train which had all metal couplers, track, and a lot of play value. Result- they left with the Marklin set and were obligated to continue buying Marklin since it was different than all other HO. I still see some of our customers in public places and they are still very happy with that choice made a generation ago. Everyone was a winner ! Marklin still does this but the starter sets are now in the $ 75 -150 range. It does work! If we can draw on this success idea, I think it could be adapted to grow S Gauge. The dealers, manufacturers, clubs, and whoever all need to "BUY IN" if this is going to work. Our NASG could very easily become the focal point and once the ball starts to roll we will get all the help we can stand from the bystanders! Trust me on this, We suddenly had 3 other Marklin dealers within 50 miles where there had been none. We have a Spring Spree coming up and it might be a great place to have a small core discussion on paths to explore! Tom Doherty Pennsylvania Heritage Models, Ltd. http://www.paheritagemodels.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12474	From: Peck	Date: 3/29/2001
Subject: Re: MTH

<<Has anyone received their coal loader from MTH or heard when it may be shipped? Ordered mine last July & seems like a long wait! >> They've started to ship. Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12475	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 3/29/2001
Subject: Re: Smudged windows

You might try a little GOO GONE on the tip of a Q tip. IronHorse wrote: > > > > I imagine a lot of you would like a response to the > > following situation. > > In one of my models I installed clear plastic windows. > > I bit of testors glue got smudged on it. No matter how > > hard a person tries to avoid it this happens on occasion. > > Anyway can this smudge be removed or buffed ? > > > > Roger Http://travel.to/cofa > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12476	From: Tom Robichaud	Date: 3/29/2001
Subject: Re: MTH Coal Loader delivery

Yo: I picked mine up Monday. It is Awesome! Looks great, runs smooth, works reliable. Little noisy and slow, but other than that I satisfied. Tommy J_Gasal@... on 03/28/2001 07:21:49 PM To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com cc: Subject: [S-Trains] MTH Coal Loader delivery Has anyone received their coal loader from MTH or heard when it may be shipped? Ordered mine last July & seems like a long wait! John S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12477	From: sgriggs@umich.edu	Date: 3/29/2001
Subject: Re: Here is boys, the MTH Coaling tower already on eBay!

Pretty cool that they went to the trouble of reproducing the AF control button. I'm sure it was tempting to substitute a generic MTH control button and save the tooling cost. It'll be interesting to see how faithful the Lionel 752 is (assuming it sees the light of day). --- In S-Trains@y..., "David Dewey" <djdewey@c...> wrote: > Interesting, The control button looks AF, down to the metal center button, > but has "MTH Electric Trains" instead of "AF" hmm. So maybe the rest of us > will see our loaders before Tax Day! > S' > David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12478	From: pieter_roos@yahoo.com	Date: 3/29/2001
Subject: Re: "dumbed down" line of trains (and other things)

Don has pointed out that no train manufacturer can sell into Walmart or other discount chains at a price that will not eat him alive. Even Toys-R-Us seems to have dropped the low end Bachmann/Lifelike trains they used to carry. The only toy trains I see in these markets are those semi-G scale battery sets and some no-name sets with what looks like an F-40 and REALLY short passenger cars or freight cars with (IIRC) one axel per truck like the old Marx toys. One solution might be 1/64 scale equipment with alternent snap in trucks for S or 0-27 gauge. The failure of Industrial Rail suggests that this market may not be sustainable either. For that matter, does anyone have info on how well Ertl did with their S train? I'd guess not too well, since they didn't repeat or expand it. The O market, like current S, seems to demand more detail and better scale (like most of Lionel and MTH's recent product) rather than the older Lionel toy train styling. I think if I were an S manufacturer I'd be thinking real hard about swapping a couple of sets with a local Dept. 56 dealer to take some pictures of the trains in their display for an advertising brochure. My understanding is that was the initial market for Bachmann's On30 stuff, and would seem to have more potential for expanding S than trying to convert HO gaugers. They even have a '50s village that would go great with steam/diesel transition models (not that Dept. 56 buyers probably know or care about the era of the trains). Then agian, maybe Ron and Don have thought about this and deteremined that it will not work.... The one major problem with converting HO or N scalers, or even selling starter sets to new people looking to get into model railroading, is the follow on. Newcomers really need to be able to walk into the hobby store and see the accessories, buildings additional cars and track avialable. Telling someone just starting out that they need to buy only at train shows, mail order or by adapting stuff from other scales is really not a winning strategy . At least with the dept. 56 stuff, that isn't so much an issue. Pieter > --- In S-Trains@y..., "David Dewey" <djdewey@c...> wrote: > > So far the majority of comments on a (I prefer the word "Simplified" > ) > > starter set have related stories about exciting existing model > railroaders. > > I think what started this post was the idea of a set that could > possibly > > compete out there in Discount Land with other starter sets. I also > believe > > the idea was not to create stuff that you'd be ashamed of, but stuff > without > > the add-on detail parts, very similar to the Industrial Rails > caboose that > > was offered to the O 27 groups, but actually has an S sized body. > <SNIP> > > So Don, Yes I would hope someone would make models they might > not want > > to run on their LAYOUT, but would be proud to give a child to run on > the > > FLOOR! Of course that hope includes making them in quantities > sufficient > > enough to sell them at "Wally World" for something under $150, or > hopefully > > $100. IMHO, that's the consumer price resistance level for casual > toy train > > purchasing. > > Of course, there will always be modelers who will take these > cheap > > trains and rebuild them into detailed stuff! > > Gee, these rose colored glasses even make my neighborhood look > good! Now > > if I could just put them on some potential house buyers. . . . . > > S' > > David D. >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12479	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 3/29/2001
Subject: Re: LTI sales pressure

In a message dated 3/28/01 4:17:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, jarcho@... writes: << Are they saying that if we don't buy this batch of garbage, LTI won't make any more Flyer? >> In some fairness to Lionel LLC, I suspect that this is a bit of sales "hype" from Chehalis. BTW, my understanding is that the preorders for the new accessories have been pretty good -- the O gauge folks want them, too. Consequently, it is likely that we will see both the current catalogued accessories appear plus more in the future. It turns out that Lionel does have a lot of the original Gilbert tooling. The fairly boring and overpriced offering of rolling stock is another matter. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12480	From: Roy Inman	Date: 3/29/2001
Subject: ACG/AFL

To add still one more knit to the ACG vs AFL thread: I did not have Flyer as a kid. Wanted it, but dad talked me out of it. Lionel is more rugged, three-rail is easier to hook up were his arguments. Always wanted AF though. Loved the two rails and those long, sleek passenger cars, and liked the smell of AF smoke, and the accessories. Then, met Paul Stevens at a train show with his tables of AF, and boy was I happy to learn that I could go back and capture a childhood dream. Only problem was, all of the original AF stuff was, well, old. The engines needed attention to make them run properly, paint job considerably less than current technology, etc., Then I found out that Lionel was re-making some (a few) of the old Gilbert stuff. Immediately bought a couple of AFL sets, whatever cars were still around on dealers' shelves, got some new AM track, and was having a ball running these wonderful AFL trains that looked like the originals, only better, and that ran better (and had sound!) than what I could buy of the old ACG equipment. Then Paul and others just laughed and said "Heck, they saw you coming. They can't give that AFL stuff away. Nobody wants it. You paid how much?" etc. My bubble was burst. And I thought I had something pretty good there. I can completely understand Lionel's position on production of AF, if in fact the disgruntlement of folks on the list is a direct reflection of how much of the new stuff they buy. I can also understand the opinion of some who think the AFL stuff is not up to what they want. SHS equipment is infinitely better. But, it is NOT AF. Regarding, price, there is a definite relationship between brand recognition and how much a company can charge. In the camera world, with which I am most familiar, one does not buy a German Leica at Japanese Pentax prices, yet I have seen equally good results from both. You pay for the name, or to put it another way, if you are going to play, you have to pay. I wish the new Lionel offerings were more exotic items. I have very little of the old stuff, mostly because it is not available around these parts, and I pretty much have time only to "plug and play," not having much time to tinker with the old equipment, wonderful though it may be. So, lame as some items may be, I for one am glad to see Lionel producing at least something. A1950ish ACG catalog I have somewhere around here lists a Borden's milk car at, I believe, $3.95. The price of the remake is roughly 11x that amount. My dad made $50.00 a week in 1955, which for an auto mechanic was pretty good I guess. Today, most people I know can't make it on $550 a week, roughly 11x what dad made. My figures may be off somwhat, but I hope you get my point that salaries have (generally) increased more than the Borden's milk car when it was introduced (not current market value, of course). Add our small our market share of 1-2%, subtract the disgruntled among us, and frankly if I were in charge I don't believe I would produce any AFL at all. Roy Inman

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12481	From: pieter_roos@yahoo.com	Date: 3/29/2001
Subject: If AC Gilbert... was Re: Two bits worth on AM, SHS, AC Gilbert

Ah, "what if" can be fun. When I was about 13 I read a lot of Science Fiction, so here goes... Our intrepid S Gauger discovers that in an alternate timeline the A.C. Gilbert Co. not only survived, but becomes the pre-eminent toy manufacturer by the turn of the millenium. He just has to see this, so the intrepid S Gauger builds a Trans-Temporal Transporter (he always knew those Erector parts and spare AF controller buttons would come in handy some day) and visits this alternate reality. Rushing to a mall, he finds the local Toys-R-ACG store and hurries in. He finds the top selling toys in the ACG line are....Star Wars action figures, video games and Britiany Spears dress up dolls. In response to his questions, the clerk fishes under the counter for a dusty catalog showing the American Flyer Collectors series. The new models for 2001 are an Xmas boxcar, a UP hopper and (coming soon!) the Seaboard Coal loader.... My point being that there is no reason to assume A.C. Gilbert could have continued producing the same stuff through the toy train market collapse of the 1960s and '70s. All the same market and economic events which drove Lionel, Tyco and other train makers of the time would still have influenced Gilbert. There realy is no toy train market today as Gilbert and Lionel knew it, children don't have the same level of interest and have so many other choices. Had AF beat Lionel in the market there might have been (briefly) a broader S range and more of any one piece available (but maybe more AF collectors looking for it as well). You could even write a scenario where Gilbert survived the collapse of the toy train market by selling it's AF name and tooling to the second place company, Lionel.... Pieter --- In S-Trains@y..., lawrence jackman <ljack70117@a...> wrote: > I totally disagree with you. If ACG was a live today he would be making > the same Thing he made back then. There was good technology then. It > had to be done by hand. Today you have the same machines (lathes, mills) > controlled by computers so you can do it faster. My Mold maker makes > molds on a Gorden Pantograph by hand and turns out just as good models > as the Chinese are making on CNC controlled machines. His limitations > are base on the information I give him and that would hold true with a > CNC machine. The finished products is only as good as the information > furnished to your mold maker. ACG could have turned out better stuff in > the 50s because they were doing it in other scales. > There is nothing wrong with AF, High rail or fine scale. To each his > own. > Have fun. Play with your toys or run your Railroad.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12482	From: Alan Evans	Date: 3/29/2001
Subject: American Models at Springfield OH show April 1

A reminder that American Models will have two tables at the All Gauge Train Show in Springfield, Ohio, this Sunday, April 1 from 11 a.m. to 4 p.m. The location is the Clark County Fairgrounds, southeast of Springfield at Rt. 41 and I-70. Samples of the Budd Car set will be there for viewing. This is the second "local show" that AM has attended, so BE SURE TO STOP AND VISIT. This is getting S gauge out to the public and we need to acknowledge this positive approach!! Also visit Central Ohio S Gaugers layout which will be near the AM tables. "Meet a fellow S Gauger." This public show (twice a year) is our method of getting S out in the mainstream. - Alan Evans, Central Ohio S Gaugers P.S. - The special S Spree Krispy Kreme flatcar is almost sold out -- our club will have to return late orders to some individuals, so keep this in mind. Visit the Spring S Spree info on our website at www.cosg.freehomepage.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12483	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 3/29/2001
Subject: smudged windows

If you are very careful not to damage the piece, you can brush or spray some Glosscote on the inside of the window. This will reduce the smudge though probably not eliminate it. Better yet, replace the window! Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12484	From: michael prell	Date: 3/29/2001
Subject: S-monsters

In thinking ahead to Halloween, I've been entertaining the idea of setting up a haunted railroad section of the Board Break & Elbow Smash. Now comes the challange. Are there any S-gauge size monsters out there and who has them. Push comes to shove, I guess I could get little masks for my regular human types, but somehow I don't think I's find any. So back to the point, any s-frankensteins, werewolves mummies or Draculas out there? Might be fun if there were.Thanks. ===== Being angry is the same as holding a hot coal in the palm of your hand. You want to hold on to it in order to throw it at another, but only hurt yourself in doing so. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12485	From: Trbngs@cs.com	Date: 3/29/2001
Subject: Re: S-monsters

--- In S-Trains@y..., michael prell <mlprell@y...> wrote: > Are there any S-gauge size monsters out > there and who has them. > Never seen these in any model railroad scale! However, a general hobby shop in your area may carry "Dungon and Dragon" type gaming figures. Some of these should be small enough to use in S-scale, and if somewhat over-size, they'll just be BIG monsters. Tom Bangs _______________________________________

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12486	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 3/29/2001
Subject: (no subject)

PHM will be at the Wilmington MA Greenberg show this weekend. The T Master and the 8 wheel drive conversion to s gauge for the Industrial rail trolley will be running. Tom Doherty Pennsylvania Heritage Models, Ltd. http://www.paheritagemodels.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12487	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 3/29/2001
Subject: (no subject)

I, too, believe that 1) Lionel has a death wish concerning S gauge and the American flyer line or 2). they are so far out of line with reality that they cannot reasonably assess the S gauge market. Possibly both. Based on my sales of the Lionel 2001 Book 1 American Flyer items, each of the AF accessories is outselling ANY of the "new" AF cars by 3 to 1 on the Borden's flatcar, and by 6-12 to 1 on all of the other three cars. I mean, who in their right mind with a limited budget would pay $50 for a boxcar with a cheap tab and slot assembly when for $40 they could buy an SHS boxcar with add on details, sprung trucks, and convertibility to scale. Even less for an AM boxcar with more details than Lionel AF, but less than SHS. Lack of support for these cars will be viewed by Lionel as a further lack of an S gauge buying public, rather than their problem of not producing good and/or needed products. Look at their failed SD-2 and caboose effort, with the largest pre-order of any Lionel S gauge products. But they killed this project when they could not return their development costs on the very first run. Much more than my 2 cents. Joe ===== Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,100 part lines American Models ########################## S-Helper Service Official Licensed Dealer for Gilbert Reproductions joestrainrepair@... Master Charge/Visa __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12488	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 3/29/2001
Subject: Fwd: [S-Trains] LTI sales pressure

Originally sent to Tom offlist. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12489	From: alorince@yahoo.com	Date: 3/29/2001
Subject: pittsburgh train show

div 2 mid central region nmra train show is being held at castle shannon fire hall sat and sun mar 31, apr1 10 am to 4pm. pa route 88 south of off pa route 51. about 5 mi south of city of pittsburgh. i'll have my american models available. if your coming in for the first baseball game in the new PNC Park come in a little early and visit the show. andy lorince

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12490	From: TWesthelle@aol.com	Date: 3/29/2001
Subject: AF 771 Windows

Hi Everyone, I have been on this list for about 6 months. First time I've posted. First a comment. I am an American Flyer/AC Gilbert purist, or have so been called.I have had, operated, and collected AF from the 40-50's. I truely believe we have been left with a product that we will never see duplicated again. Gilbert not only had forsight in scale, durability and lasting construction, he also had fun and intended for his consumers to also. Well, I for one, am still having fun with his products. I have a question for all the experts out there, and so many there are. I enjoy the input from so many knowledgable people, nice to have this resource. I need to reattach my 5 original windows back into there original slots on my AF 771. Can anyone offer me any ideas or stragagies to accomplish this in as original a repair as possible. I await your ideas. Again, thanks for all the SGauge chat. Tom Westhelle Oviedo, FL

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12491	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 3/29/2001
Subject: Mid-Atlantic Train Shows

Are there any train shows going on this weekend (3/31 - 4/1) in Maryland, Pennsylvania, Virginia, West Virginia, Delaware or Ohio? Please respond to me at <pjervin@...> as well as to this list. Thanks, Peter Ervin

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12492	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/29/2001
Subject: SMOKE ADDRESS

Hi Guys, I have lost the address's of the following : James Silverling Allan Eisenhaur Thomas C. Fisher (sorry Smitty) David Horn Eugene Steffan Please contact me off list I mailed the latest samples & can't find your Address's Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12493	From: ussbadger@hotmail.com	Date: 3/29/2001
Subject: MTH Coal Loader

Hi Fellow S Gaugers, Just thought you might want to know that my local hobby shop in Southern Michigan has my MTH Coal Loader. I will be picking it up tomorrow. I can't wait and I hope that you won't have to wait much longer for yours. Jim Weide

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12494	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/29/2001
Subject: SMOKE REPORT

First ...Thank you to all that took part of the "Smell" test....about 90% caqme back with the same comment...KEROSENE to strong & little cedar smell On the plus side most said that it smoked from well to very well.... The viscosity was very good ,it wicked very well..... There were a few that compared it to RFG Protosmoke and LVTS..With the trial smoke being up there with them and at time exceding them in every area EXCEPT the kerosene odor.... The 2nd batch shipped today in my opinion nolonger has the kerosene odor and has a cedar smell to it... But only the opinions that I recieve from you will tell the tale.... As in any opinion poll there are some varing views....I look forward to the next group of replies.... Any club or group that would like to test it let me know ....I have about 6 4oz bottles left for club testing....Thank you ....Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12495	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/29/2001
Subject: Re: S-monsters

Michael, I've seen a lot of aliens and spacecraft that look S size! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12496	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 3/29/2001
Subject: S-monsters

i have been looking for S gauge dinosaurs for years with no success. Monsters would give the moe & joe car, the walking brakeman, and the action caboose a whole new look! Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12497	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/29/2001
Subject: Trains for sale

I'm going to be selling an LTI NP set new in the box Plastic wrap is unwraped.....It also has the extra "B" unit and an extra pass car# 48925 The "B" unit has the horn Also an LTI NH EP-5 with caboose Befor i list them on E-bay if anyone wants to make a offer I won't list till this weekend......Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12498	From: Lewis Webb	Date: 3/30/2001
Subject: MTH sawmill # 30-9122 and log loader #30-9119

Dose anyone know if these two items are S scale, and if MTH makes any other items in S. My coal loader was shipped to me on 03 29 01. Thanks for the help, Lewis [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12499	From: Jim Hannawald	Date: 3/30/2001
Subject: Mid-Atlantic Shows

Peter, There is a show at the Hartley, DE firehouse on this Sat. at 9-3. There are several S dealers most of the time--They have also had S layouts in the past. Jim Hannawald

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12500	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 3/30/2001
Subject: Re: "dumbed down" line of trains (and other things)

Pieter Roos wrote: > Newcomers really need to be able to walk into the hobby > store and see the accessories, buildings additional cars and track > avialable. Telling someone just starting out that they need to buy > only at train shows, mail order or by adapting stuff from other scales > is really not a winning strategy . Bingo. Rich G.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12501	From: Dan Brindell	Date: 3/30/2001
Subject: Re: Mid-Atlantic Train Shows

You could also try this one, which was posted on the list a few days ago....... This Sunday (April 1st), the South Jersey S Gaugers will hold their 7th Bi-annual train show for the benefit of Bellmawr Fire & Rescue #1. The show will be held in the fire hall just North of the corner of Browning Rd and Rt 168 (Blackhorse Pike). The show is only a 15 minute ride from Cherry Hill, NJ and center-city Philadelphia. The show will run from 9:00am to 2:00pm and has a nice representation of S gauge vendors (imagine that!) as well as those dealing in other gauges and railroad-oriented products. If you're in the area, stop in and say hello. Our club's modular layout will be on display and the coffee pot is always on. We will have a few new products on hand for "show-n-tell" - the new Hobo Junction & PA Heritage Models co-op S Trolley will be running on our layout, and we hope to have a pre-production AM Budd car on display. -----Original Message----- From: M.McConnell <mmcconn@...> To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Date: Monday, March 26, 2001 3:01 PM Subject: [S-Trains] SJSG Train Show in Phila Metro. >This Sunday (April 1st), the South Jersey S Gaugers will hold their 7th >Bi-annual train show for the benefit of Bellmawr Fire & Rescue #1. The show >will be held in the fire hall just North of the corner of Browning Rd and >Rt 168 (Blackhorse Pike). The show is only a 15 minute ride from Cherry >Hill, NJ and center-city Philadelphia. The show will run from 9:00am to >2:00pm and has a nice representation of S gauge vendors (imagine that!) as >well as those dealing in other gauges and railroad-oriented products. > >If you're in the area, stop in and say hello. Our club's modular layout >will be on display and the coffee pot is always on. > >We will have a few new products on hand for "show-n-tell" - the new Hobo >Junction & PA Heritage Models co-op S Trolley will be running on our >layout, and we hope to have a pre-production AM Budd car on display. > > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12502	From: colin_olsen@hotmail.com	Date: 3/30/2001
Subject: AF 302AC

This is an early (1946)302AC, cast boiler, metal tender. Runs great, smokes good, rescued from an antique store, but takes several switches or clicks of the reverse unit to go in reverse. Rewired with new jack plug and 4-wire lead, wired correctly, I believe, and now only goes forward and will not reverse. E-unit fingers & drum look good, seem to make contact, drum clean carefully. Any suggestions? Thanks, colin

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12503	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 3/30/2001
Subject: Monsters

As a door prize at the S-Fest last fall, I got The Addams Family Haunted House. I believe this was donated by Jeff Madden. It is a plastic kit "complete with ghosts" and is "The Model That GLOWS In The Dark". I haven't checked out the glowing. It is a three story Victorian house with the door 1-1/4" high - so it looks right for S-Gauge. It is copyrighted in 1995 by Playing Mantis, 805 Wolfe Avenue, Cassopolis, MI 49031 (1-800-MANTIS-8). It looks like a neat piece and you might find one either through Playing Mantis or at a toy/hobby shop that deals in plastic model kits. Good luck, Roger Delthony

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12504	From: M.McConnell	Date: 3/30/2001
Subject: Re: Mid-Atlantic Train Shows

8^) Great idea!! I think I'll stop by :) I'm pleased you've confirmed my message was read by at least ONE person! Those late-night computing sessions usually do me in too, but thanks for the reminder Dan! Michael At 09:16 AM 3/30/01 -0500, Dan Brindell wrote: >You could also try this one, which was posted on the list a few days >ago....... > >This Sunday (April 1st), the South Jersey S Gaugers will hold their 7th >Bi-annual train show for the benefit of Bellmawr Fire & Rescue #1. > >-SNIP- > >-----Original Message----- >From: M.McConnell <mmcconn@...> >To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> >Date: Monday, March 26, 2001 3:01 PM >Subject: [S-Trains] SJSG Train Show in Phila Metro. > > >This Sunday (April 1st), the South Jersey S Gaugers will hold their 7th > >Bi-annual train show for the benefit of Bellmawr Fire & Rescue #1.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12505	From: John Foley	Date: 3/30/2001
Subject: ST. Louis NMRA

HI Folks Were looking for a couple of fellows to help Tom Robinson At the NMRA's train show in St Louis at the Trans World Dome. Basically we need operators and help taking it down. The are July 13th 10am-7pm July 14th 10am-6:30pm July 15th 10am-9:30pm If you can help out let me know off list. John Foley

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12506	From: Ron Brady	Date: 3/30/2001
Subject: unsubscribe

unsubscribe rbrady@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12507	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 3/30/2001
Subject: Re: AF 302AC

You don't mention whether the drum rotates every time the e unit clicks. It should index one step. To diagnose apply power with the tender shell removed (or boiler shell if the e unit is there) and observe the drum. It should index one step per power application. If not tweak the pawl that indexes the drum and see if you can get it positioned so it works every time. In some cases it helps to smooth the sheet metal edges that guide the pawl inyto position when it lifts. colin_olsen@... wrote: > > This is an early (1946)302AC, cast boiler, metal tender. Runs great, > smokes good, rescued from an antique store, but takes several > switches or clicks of the reverse unit to go in reverse. Rewired with > new jack plug and 4-wire lead, wired correctly, I believe, and now > only goes forward and will not reverse. E-unit fingers & drum look > good, seem to make contact, drum clean carefully. Any suggestions? > > Thanks, > > colin > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12508	From: Velapoldi's	Date: 3/30/2001
Subject: Re: Toys

Hi John R and all: Unfortunately, I recently had an AM B&O set take a nosedive from 4 feet to a concrete floor. Everything survived (except the trucks on the observation). Just a very slight ding on the pacific. I must admit when it went I was quite worried about the disaster. To steal a common phrase: "It took a licking and kept on ticking!" Rance Ktrdd@... wrote: > Hi Gang, > > I don't think the electronic stuff can suffer those falls without a doubt? I > wouldn't want my AM or SHS stuff to take a fall. John R >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12509	From: Tom Rolfsmeyer	Date: 3/30/2001
Subject: Any good S guage store or hobby shops in St. Louis?

Well gents, I will be going to visit some friends in St. Louis in April, does any one on the list know of any shows, or good hobby shops that stock S guage stuff? Please reply to me off list. Thanks again. Tom Rolfsmeyer

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12510	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 3/30/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, April 1, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12511	From: Bill Lane	Date: 3/30/2001
Subject: B & O EM-1 in S Scale

Hi All, Southwind Models is now taking reservations for the awesome B & O EM-1 It is one of my 2 personal favorite non-Pennsy locomotives. Jettie is promising to get a computer, but until then, please follow the link http://users.snip.net/~billlane/EM1.jpg and allow it to load as it is a big file. Show your support of this project so we all can have the B & O's finest on our layout. Thanks Bill

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12512	From: howard sheffield	Date: 3/30/2001
Subject: Re: AF 302AC

I am having a similar problem with a 312 where it got finicky and now only wants to go in reverse for a foot or 3 after several power throws then stops in neutral. I talked to a local gent much more knowledgeable than I and he suggested that the armature may need washers front and back to keep it from jumping out of position. My reverse unit clicks as you suggested it should with each power hit and I see the armature moving a lot as he suggested may be the problem. Just thought I would pass that along. Howard Sheffield >You don't mention whether the drum rotates every time the e unit >clicks _______________________________________________________________________ Free Domain Name Registration with Web Hosting at Lanset Communications. 56k Dialup, DSL, and Colocation at http://www.lanset.net

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12513	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/30/2001
Subject: Re: AF 302AC

One finger of the reverse unit is not making connection. Many repro fingers are a fraction too long and sometimes cause this problem. Solution? carefully bend the curved tip a little tighter, that usually does the trick. Don't forget to add more downward pressure too, by bending the fingers down. You have to do this with them off of the unit. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12514	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/30/2001
Subject: NP OBS.CAR

Hi Guys, Has anyone heard of a recall by Lionel of their NP obs. cars in their sets when they first came out??? Or any other obs. car that had to be recalled for any reason...Thank You Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12515	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 3/30/2001
Subject: AF 302AC

While most of the steam loco problems that have been discussed on list this week sound like reverse unit problems, there is one other cause that should be mentioned. The armature and brushes must be able to move in and out freely. Several things can conspire to prevent this. Wear on the armature shaft tends to be uneven. A badly worn armature shaft can develop a sort of notch. Simultaneously, old lubricants and dirt can form a hard bulge of buildup on the inside of the front armature bearing. These two factors can prevent the free in and out motion of the armature. The brushes can lose their freedom of back and forth motion because the brush tubes become dirty, the brushes become deformed, or the springs lose their shape and power. These elements can all combine to cause loss of contact between the commutator and brushes. What you can do is polish the bearing surfaces of the armature shaft with #600 sandpaper and then carefully brush away all grit, clean out the insides of the armature bearings with qtips and mineral spirits (you may be amazed at the amount of crud that comes out!) and relubricate them, clean out the brush tubes with qtips and mineral spirits, and use new brushes and brush springs. This will maximize freedom of movement for the armature and brushes. Armature washers are important too. I believe that the insulated core on the front of an armature is vulnerable to shrinkage and/or wear over time; eventually a washer must be used to take up some, but not all, of the excess slack created. The rear armature bearing, in the absence of a W1A92 washer, tends to cut deeply into the oil slinger, so that the armature can travel too far to the rear. That is why replacing this washer, or adding it, is so important. Unfortunately, the new washer must be broken in; during this process it can produce a grinding or shrieking noise or even snag the armature to a complete halt. These problems will usually disappear when the new configuration is broken in. Please excuse the imprecise language; I'm writing this hurriedly. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12517	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 3/31/2001
Subject: Re: ACG/AFL

Roy wrote: >Add our small market share of 1-2%, subtract the disgruntled among >us, >and frankly if I were in charge I don't believe I would produce any >AFL at >all. Okay... relax... take DEEEEEP breath... now exhale...AAAAHHHHHhhhhhh... Now type... Roy, this is nothing against you. It wouldn't surprise me if most at Lionel had just what you said in mind. But... As one of the "disgruntled" (whenever I hear that word, I can't help thinking of Marvin Martian in a straightjacket), I feel it necessary to clarify what I personally am disgruntled about. It's not that Lionel neglects AF. That is their choice to make. It's not that they obviously don't have any significant plans for AF. Flyer is their property to do with as they see fit. It's not even the lame, almost insulting AF offerings Lionel waves under our noses each year. (Could you imagine the furor if Lionel introduced a comparable offering in O gauge? But they expect US to be ecstatic, even grateful!) So what is it? It's the pose. Y'know, the ruse, the pretence. It's this constant masquerade, this air of "caring" about AF. "Oh, we CARE, we DO! We really really REALLY do! And if you guys cared as much as we really really do, we'd care even MORE! Why, we might even make more stuff...well, maybe. Like we told what's-his-name, uh, that Heimburger guy, 'If the line warrants it...' Yeah! We SAID that!" Rolling along with all that is the thinly veiled implication that the reason for Flyer's poor showing is...us. "Yes, it's you, YOU guys! You snarling, apathetic S guys you. You simply won't march to our tune! You won't buy our lovely four S cars, just because you would rather have one of those cheeky little SHS switchers! Hey, we made the boxes blue and yellow, didn't we? Why we even put "GILBERT" on the boxes! Yet you turn from us, you, you ingrates!" Now, if Lionel would just fess-up, I wouldn't be disgruntled. (There it is, that voice, "OH! That wasn't very nice at ALL!") If Lionel would just say, "Look, guys, we really don't have much time for y'all two-rail freaks. Three-rail is our bread 'n butter, and MTH is really on our backs, so we got a full plate here, knowattahmean? Now, we do need to make a little return on the old AF tooling so we can pay the taxes an' such on it, so we'd appreciate it if y'all would just shuttup and tow the line, 'K?"... IOW, if they would just come clean and quit playing games, I'd say "No thank-ya kindly," and leave the subject alone. But... Tell ya what, Lionel: To paraphrase one of your execs, "When the line WARRANTS it..." Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12518	From: Lewis Webb	Date: 3/31/2001
Subject: Sawmill and Log Loader

Sorry about the 1st posting. Just learning how to do it. I need information on the MTH Sawmill #30-9122 and Log Loader #30-9119. Are the two items reproductions of the old american flyer for S Scale. Thanks Lewis [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12519	From: lancemccold@chartertn.net	Date: 3/31/2001
Subject: Re: AF 302AC

To emphasize Tom's point about brushes and springs ... I recently helped a friend with his 0-8-0 that would not run. Turns out the brush springs were out of shape. I put in spares I had bought just-in-case and the problem was solved. Lance McCold --- In S-Trains@y..., jarcho@r... wrote: > While most of the steam loco problems that have been discussed on list this week sound like reverse unit problems, there is one other cause that should be mentioned. > > The brushes can lose their freedom of back and forth motion because the brush tubes become dirty, the brushes become deformed, or the springs lose their shape and power. These elements can all combine to cause loss of contact between the commutator and brushes. > > > Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12520	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 3/31/2001
Subject: Re: Sawmill and Log Loader

Dear Lewis, Yes, they it is my understanding that they are exactly the same in appearance. The mechanism is most likely changed for production reasons. God forbid they would have the foresight or the imagination to make something new. Don Lewis Webb wrote: > Sorry about the 1st posting. Just learning how to do it. > > I need information on the MTH Sawmill #30-9122 and Log Loader #30-9119. Are the two items > reproductions of the old american flyer for S Scale. > > Thanks > Lewis > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New 2nd run reefers are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12521	From: negative_pitch@hotmail.com	Date: 3/31/2001
Subject: Re: Sawmill and Log Loader and other MTH

Along with the subject of the repro sawmill and loader. I read on this list some time back that there were many MTH items that were "close enough" to S scale to not look out of place on an AF/Sgauge layout. I even got the idea that some items were in fact 1/64. I live in a remote area and the only thing I have to look at is a catalog. Could someone who is familiar with their items or has some MTH on their layout let me know something about closeness to 1/64. MK

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12522	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 3/31/2001
Subject: Re: Sawmill and Log Loader and other MTH

Dear MK, The Farm house, Country house and Row house are indeed 1:64 structures. I thought that Mike should have received the Charles Sandersfield "S Scale" manufacturer of the year award" for that effort. Don Thompson negative_pitch@... wrote: > Along with the subject of the repro sawmill and loader. I read on > this list some time back that there were many MTH items that > were "close enough" to S scale to not look out of place on an > AF/Sgauge layout. I even got the idea that some items were in fact > 1/64. > > I live in a remote area and the only thing I have to look at is a > catalog. Could someone who is familiar with their items or has some > MTH on their layout let me know something about closeness to 1/64. > > MK > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New 2nd run reefers are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12523	From: busyboy	Date: 3/31/2001
Subject: Re: B & O EM-1 in S Scale

Bill Lane wrote: >Southwind Models is now taking reservations for the awesome B & O EM-1 . . . >Show your support of this project so we all can have the B & O's >finest on our layout. There seem to be two distinctly different types of S-gaugers out there. There are those of us who are still fiddling around with sticky reverse units in Flyer Atlantics and then there are those who are anticipating the arrival of a new 2-8-8-4 articulated for $2995.00. Yes, three thousand bucks! That Atlantic is worth about 50 bucks. That's 60 Atlantics. What a fleet! Sixty sticky reverse pawls. Say that sixty times. I am a man of moderation. I am unlikely to show up at your door driving a Porsche Boxter or a Hummer. Neither will I arrive in a reconditioned Yugo. I tend to shy away from the extravagant while avoiding the embrace of the frugal. Three grand for a new steamer is out of the question. I would adore having big steam engines on my layout. I frankly am tired of my Second Class Status (is that what the "S" stands for). The "O" guys have: O My, a Big-Boy and O Gosh, a Challenger and O Dear, an Allegheny and O Gee, guess what, a B&O EM-1. These locos, including the EM-1, are all about a thousand dollars apiece. Pricey, yes, but you get three of them in O for the price of one in S. Of course, they are not brass, they are all die cast. I'm starting to feel that the die has been cast for us S BoyS. Read what it says on that page Bill Lane sent us to. "The B&O had just passed through the Great Depression and was steam heavy with old, highly used and worn out equipment." Sound familiar? For us, the great depression started in the mid-60's and we are loaded with old, well beaten steamers whose reverse gear has been patched to death. I want new, big steam locomotives. Let me repeat that unequivocal statement for all manufacturers who monitor this list. I WANT NEW, BIG STEAM LOCOMOTIVES. Join me, won't you? What do we want? NEW STEAM! When do we want it? NOW! And don't have the brass to ask us for three grand each, either! Maybe next year we can march on March 16th. down the middle of New Haven and get busted and on the news. I'll bring my bullhorn. Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12524	From: Ted R Larson	Date: 3/31/2001
Subject: Chapel Cars

Several years back, Mike Shea of our local S club told me about "Chapel Cars", turn of the century passenger type cars that were used as rolling churches throughout the West and through some of the East. The April issue of "Guideposts" magazine has an article on these cars by Wilma Taylor, who with her husband Norman, restored the chapel car "Grace" and wrote a historical book on chapel cars, "This Train is Bound for Glory", Judson Press, 1999 (800-458-3766). Ted Larson Duh! I just found a PHOTO-COPY button in my scanner software! ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12525	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 3/31/2001
Subject: chapel cars

When I was a kid, there was a wonderful children's book in my school library about some Canadian passenger cars that were equipped as classrooms for use in rural areas. Maybe Joe P. knows more about this. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12526	From: busyboy	Date: 3/31/2001
Subject: Re: B & O EM-1 in S Scale

jfred wrote: > We can get new "scale" steam for under a grand, check BTS. They still need a > scale layout, but so would the brass EM-1 jfred: Sure, if what you want is teeny little tea kettles from the 1920's! I'm talking monolithic steam. When I first saw the C&O Sacred Cow steam turbine in a rail history book I said, "Man, somebody's got to make this thing in 'S' gauge". That was ten years ago. Last year, MTH manufactured this monstrosity in all it's grey and yellow glory for the benefit of the "O, is that another one for me?" crowd. And they don't care! I see it on the shelf of Nassau Hobbies every time I go in there! There is such a glut of big engines in "O Golly" gauge that you can actually go into a store and buy one without having a pre-order or a reservation or a 100% deposit in advance for three years. Thanks Ron Bashista for the all the affordable Pacific variations. I hope you make all of them and their related cousins in similar wheel arrangements, particularly all those cool streamliners. Thanks Bill Wade for venturing into a new venue and putting more varieties of small steam on standard S rails. Thanks in advance to Don Thompson. You know there is a steamer lurking under wraps at the S Helper plant and the happy announcement has got to come soon. (Look at the back cover of the last SHS catalog for a sneak preview.) Thanks, too to Jettie Padgett and the rest of the brass engine builders. There is probably not nearly as much profit in a 3000 dollar steamer as you guys would like to make. I offer these words of gratitude to show you that I am not overlooking the substantial contributions of those who are currently supplying us with equipment. It's just not enough, that's all. Call me a greedy SOB, (S, Oh Brother) but with all we got, it just doesn't fill the bill. We need affordable, die-cast, accurately detailed, well made monster steamers from the last glory days of steam. This is THE biggest hole in all our rosters. We cannot all buy in at 3 grand a pop and then end up with scale flanges, either. Somebody, somewhere has got to build a Hi-rail USRA 2-6-6-2 or a 4-8-8-4 Big-Boy, a Y-6b, a Class A, or a J1A. Where are the Niagara's and Mohawks? How about a heavy Northern or a Mountain (same as a Mohawk)? Texas style ten-wheelers, Pennsy oddball T-1's, bring 'em on. We are hungry, deprived S-gaugers with bank accounts. And do us all a favor, please. Don't take any surveys to find out who has curved tracks and straightaways that can handle the big stuff. You just build it, we will come. I've got a prybar and a hammer. You'd be amazed at what I can do with wood. Nobody asked the O gaugers if they had layouts big enough for Big-Boys, so don't ask us. Watch out for the curmudgeons, too. There is always going to be some guy who says "I don't care if you gave me a solid gold J-3 for nuthin', cause if it wasn't built by Gilbert before 1966, I hain't a runnin' it." There is also the perennial philosopher who believes that the true future of S scale is in narrow gauge logging short lines, primarily because that is what he is building. You gotta see through the special interests and grab the biggest market. We Want Big Steam, or Else! Che Zizzo Leader of the Revolution

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12527	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/31/2001
Subject: JAIL CARS

I was passing Taylor yard in LA one day and saw a Black & White caboose with bars on it and the lettering SP POLICE......Mike S My son who works there now said he will let me know when it is back in the yard so I can get a Pic.....Hopefully an inside look also

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12528	From: hgbutler	Date: 3/31/2001
Subject: Ideal Plastic Automobile Kits

Today I saw an older double kit made by Ideal Plastics for a Stutz roadster and a Model T (touring car, I believe it said), part of a line of 8, I think. They looked somewhat oversize for S, but I didn't have anything available for comparison. Does anyone know the approximate scale(s) of these kits? If not, can anyone point me to a source of dimensions for the abovementioned cars? Thanks, Harry Butler

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12529	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 3/31/2001
Subject: Re: Sawmill and Log Loader and other MTH

The operating Passenger Platform is almost dead on S. negative_pitch@... wrote: > > Along with the subject of the repro sawmill and loader. I read on > this list some time back that there were many MTH items that > were "close enough" to S scale to not look out of place on an > AF/Sgauge layout. I even got the idea that some items were in fact > 1/64. > > I live in a remote area and the only thing I have to look at is a > catalog. Could someone who is familiar with their items or has some > MTH on their layout let me know something about closeness to 1/64. > > MK > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12530	From: Ktrdd@AOL.com	Date: 3/31/2001
Subject: Toys Again

Hi there, again, All model trains are toys and all trainists are of the same fellowship, but ----can't help myself here. In looking at Classic Trains Mag and the photos of Lionel stuff on rails--must comment. Their rolling stock looks like roller skates with kitchen matchboxes mounted on them ---ugh. Couldn't have it here. No matter how it is dressed up in pictures, the old roller skate starts moving around on me! Now there's a rip: Start calling them "Skaters."? Does Lionel have the "rights" on everything connected with old flyer?---Is this still the case 35 years later? Chat says so, but I just want to hear it? Does it include all of the old equipment including track? Or what does it include? Can anyone just go ahead and produce look-a-like flyer stuff or what? Just curious. Or is it simply the name itself? Johnson Roadbed seems to be a dead-on dup for old roadbed so that confuses this guy. With 600+ electron members, this group should be able to manage a coup to revive flyer on a big scale---S that is. If we can't get a cheaper S product into production for youth, S could die with the old guys. Given the state of manufacture in the U.S., The new Flyer could be called Eastern Flyer--that would avoid the name problem anyway. John R

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12531	From: jfred4436@aol.com	Date: 3/31/2001
Subject: Re: Toys Again

In a message dated 03/31/2001 7:45:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, Ktrdd@... writes: > ., The new Flyer could be called Eastern Flyer--that > would avoid the name problem anyway. > > Does anyone know what became of Continental Flyer? jfred [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12532	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 3/31/2001
Subject: Re: Toys Again

Dear Ktrdd, Lionel holds the trade mark for the name "American Flyer" and "A.C. Gilbert". But, MTH can make the exact item like the coal loader (as AM did with the updated and improved PA) and can sell them as long as they do not call it "American Flyer". You can make something totally new, but if you put "American Flyer" or "American Flyer Lines" on the product, you would get sued for trademark infringement. You do not need permission to advertise products as being "American Flyer®" compatible as long as we include the trademark and site Lionel as the owner of the trademark. Don T. Ktrdd@... wrote: > Hi there, again, > > All model trains are toys and all trainists are of the same fellowship, but > ----can't help myself here. In looking at Classic Trains Mag and the photos > of Lionel stuff on rails--must comment. Their rolling stock looks like > roller skates with kitchen matchboxes mounted on them ---ugh. Couldn't have > it here. No matter how it is dressed up in pictures, the old roller skate > starts moving around on me! Now there's a rip: Start calling them > "Skaters."? > Does Lionel have the "rights" on everything connected with old flyer?---Is > this still the case 35 years later? Chat says so, but I just want to hear > it? Does it include all of the old equipment including track? Or what does > it include? Can anyone just go ahead and produce look-a-like flyer stuff or > what? Just curious. Or is it simply the name itself? Johnson Roadbed seems > to be a dead-on dup for old roadbed so that confuses this guy. With 600+ > electron members, this group should be able to manage a coup to revive flyer > on a big scale---S that is. If we can't get a cheaper S product into > production for youth, S could die with the old guys. Given the state of > manufacture in the U.S., The new Flyer could be called Eastern Flyer--that > would avoid the name problem anyway. > > > John R > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New 2nd run reefers are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12533	From: gino restivo	Date: 3/31/2001
Subject: Re: NP OBS.CAR

yes , the obs body split at the drum head , and you should return it to lionel for replacement ... gino / gsr -----Original Message----- From: anormal1@... <anormal1@...> To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Date: Friday, March 30, 2001 10:29 PM Subject: [S-Trains] NP OBS.CAR > Hi Guys, > Has anyone heard of a recall by Lionel of their NP obs. cars >in their sets when they first came out??? Or any other obs. car that had to >be recalled for any reason...Thank You Mike S. > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Shop online without a credit card http://www.rocketcash.com RocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12534	From: gino restivo	Date: 3/31/2001
Subject: Re: Toys Again

as explained to me by a corporate / patent attorney they own the name and all rights to it ..... all patents have ceased after 20 years if not kept in force , meaning their are no long term lapse's in production .... if you want to make them you can not use a.f.l. , acg ... etc on any items of any kind , continental flyer kinda fizzeled out due to the death of 1 or more of the original 3 persons trying to bring out this train line , their was several stories on this in S gaugian mag yr's ago aprox late 80's , if i run across any i will post issue # ..... L will not sell the name , and in the past many wanted to revive the a.f. train line but could not come up with the money to do this . again i would gladly contribute my talents to this project , metal casting , molding .. etc .. but i don't have access to large amounts of money to do this ....... gsr. -----Original Message----- From: Ktrdd@... <Ktrdd@...> To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Date: Saturday, March 31, 2001 7:43 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Toys Again >Hi there, again, > >All model trains are toys and all trainists are of the same fellowship, but >----can't help myself here. In looking at Classic Trains Mag and the photos >of Lionel stuff on rails--must comment. Their rolling stock looks like >roller skates with kitchen matchboxes mounted on them ---ugh. Couldn't have >it here. No matter how it is dressed up in pictures, the old roller skate >starts moving around on me! Now there's a rip: Start calling them >"Skaters."? >Does Lionel have the "rights" on everything connected with old flyer?---Is >this still the case 35 years later? Chat says so, but I just want to hear >it? Does it include all of the old equipment including track? Or what does >it include? Can anyone just go ahead and produce look-a-like flyer stuff or >what? Just curious. Or is it simply the name itself? Johnson Roadbed seems >to be a dead-on dup for old roadbed so that confuses this guy. With 600+ >electron members, this group should be able to manage a coup to revive flyer >on a big scale---S that is. If we can't get a cheaper S product into >production for youth, S could die with the old guys. Given the state of >manufacture in the U.S., The new Flyer could be called Eastern Flyer--that >would avoid the name problem anyway. > > >John R > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Shop online without a credit card http://www.rocketcash.com RocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12535	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 3/31/2001
Subject: Re: B & O EM-1 in S Scale

I have to agree with the sentiment here, I have an N scale BigBoy, an HO scale BigBoy plus numerous other large articulateds in HO, but they don't sound any different out of the box than the numerous Geeps, U-boats, PAs, Es and F unit diesels. I have an S guage (AF) 4-4-2 Atlantic that is 50 years old, and it chugs and smokes and gives such a sense of realism that the smaller scales have never achived. I don't do O guage because: 1) don't have the space 2) three rail track just does not cut it 3) don't like the non-realistic proportions of the equipment It's this simple, if I would pay $2-400 for a 50 year old PA set of diesels, I would be willing to pay as much or more for a new large steamer. It does not have to be as pretty or as detailed as some of its scale model cousins, it just needs to be close enough so that I can enjoy the hell out of watching it pull a loaded train around my room. Fully working valve gear is pretty to watch, but we have done very nicely all these years without it. If we want to add on details to make it look more realistic, well there is a whole new product line for someone to start up. What we need is the basics, the manufacturers don't need to hit a home run first time up at the plate, just get up to bat. If there were more variety of affordable new motive power in S-guage, it would allow more people to get back in, and help move from a small niche market to a larger base. It will never eclipse HO, but it can become far more viable for vendors and much more exciting for those of us who just like to play and still get a thrill out of watching these things go. At 06:41 PM 3/31/01 -0500, busyboy wrote: >jfred wrote: > > We can get new "scale" steam for under a grand, check BTS. They still need >a > > scale layout, but so would the brass EM-1 > >jfred: >Sure, if what you want is teeny little tea kettles from the 1920's! I'm >talking monolithic steam. When I first saw the C&O Sacred Cow steam turbine >in a rail history book I said, "Man, somebody's got to make this thing in >'S' gauge". That was ten years ago. Last year, MTH manufactured this >monstrosity in all it's grey and yellow glory for the benefit of the "O, is >that another one for me?" crowd. And they don't care! I see it on the >shelf of Nassau Hobbies every time I go in there! There is such a glut of >big engines in "O Golly" gauge that you can actually go into a store and buy >one without having a pre-order or a reservation or a 100% deposit in advance >for three years. > >Thanks Ron Bashista for the all the affordable Pacific variations. I hope >you make all of them and their related cousins in similar wheel >arrangements, particularly all those cool streamliners. > >Thanks Bill Wade for venturing into a new venue and putting more varieties >of small steam on standard S rails. > >Thanks in advance to Don Thompson. You know there is a steamer lurking >under wraps at the S Helper plant and the happy announcement has got to come >soon. (Look at the back cover of the last SHS catalog for a sneak preview.) > >Thanks, too to Jettie Padgett and the rest of the brass engine builders. >There is probably not nearly as much profit in a 3000 dollar steamer as you >guys would like to make. > >I offer these words of gratitude to show you that I am not overlooking the >substantial contributions of those who are currently supplying us with >equipment. It's just not enough, that's all. > >Call me a greedy SOB, (S, Oh Brother) but with all we got, it just doesn't >fill the bill. We need affordable, die-cast, accurately detailed, well made >monster steamers from the last glory days of steam. This is THE biggest >hole in all our rosters. We cannot all buy in at 3 grand a pop and then end >up with scale flanges, either. Somebody, somewhere has got to build a >Hi-rail USRA 2-6-6-2 or a 4-8-8-4 Big-Boy, a Y-6b, a Class A, or a J1A. >Where are the Niagara's and Mohawks? How about a heavy Northern or a >Mountain (same as a Mohawk)? Texas style ten-wheelers, Pennsy oddball >T-1's, bring 'em on. We are hungry, deprived S-gaugers with bank accounts. > >And do us all a favor, please. Don't take any surveys to find out who has >curved tracks and straightaways that can handle the big stuff. You just >build it, we will come. I've got a prybar and a hammer. You'd be amazed at >what I can do with wood. Nobody asked the O gaugers if they had layouts big >enough for Big-Boys, so don't ask us. Watch out for the curmudgeons, too. >There is always going to be some guy who says "I don't care if you gave me a >solid gold J-3 for nuthin', cause if it wasn't built by Gilbert before 1966, >I hain't a runnin' it." There is also the perennial philosopher who >believes that the true future of S scale is in narrow gauge logging short >lines, primarily because that is what he is building. You gotta see through >the special interests and grab the biggest market. > >We Want Big Steam, or Else! >Che Zizzo >Leader of the Revolution > > > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ _---_---_---______--__--___+-----+||] [||####### B & O #####|______||_____ || pjpennington@... __| [][] |__ || ||_______________________/ _| B&O |___\_|| | ||| | | | | | | / | 4212 | # ||| | []|=|==================o=====o==================|=|[] /|-||(0)|=|(0)|=|(O) |_________| (0)|=|(0)|=|(O)||-|\ ======================================================== [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12536	From: dav21248@aol.com	Date: 3/31/2001
Subject: American Models Switch

How well does the American Models 148 Switch work with American Flyer. Is there a problem with the drag shoe dropping in the open frog on their switch? Thanks, Dave Loucks

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12537	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 3/31/2001
Subject: LTI PASS CAR CRACK

Does the crack above the drum on the obs. car unique to the NP Set only or did it show up on other sets??? Has anyone had any luck in getting the car replaced/fixed by the big "L"??? Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12538	From: Trbngs@cs.com	Date: 3/31/2001
Subject: S-scale magazines for sale

IESGAPN member Rodney Cornwall has several issues of S-scale magazines he would lile to find a home for. These include 76 Hearlds, 37 Gauagians, and all 15 of Dick Karnes fine Scale Modeler. Rodney would like to sell them as a single package and is asking $75. Contact him at rconwal$gte.net(Rodney Cornwall) Tom Bangs

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12539	From: Howell S Jobbins	Date: 4/1/2001
Subject: Re: American Models Switch

Dave, The American Models Switches work great with all Hi-rail equipment, just a problem with Scale smaller flanged wheels. If you are referring to the magnetic "drag shoe" of the AF style couplers, you must adjust the arm from the truck center using small pliers to correct height. You can use a S Helper or American Models car as a model for proper height. I run the Hi-rail wheels, but am in the middle of refitting all stuff with Kadee #802 scale couplers, as they look so much better, and the cars mate much closer together, as in the real thing. If your referring about the diesel power pickup, I have never had a problem. On Sun, 01 Apr 2001 04:44:51 -0000 dav21248@... writes: > How well does the American Models 148 Switch work with > American Flyer. Is there a problem with the drag shoe > dropping in the open frog on their switch? > Thanks, > Dave Loucks > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12540	From: Velapoldi's	Date: 4/1/2001
Subject: Switches

Hi all: Just one general question (which turned into a few specific!). I know there has been a great amount of discussion on switches, and their use with high rail and scale wheels. I currently operate highrail, but definitely want to keep the option open for scale operation. Therefore: are there any switches around code 125 size that operate well with both high rail and scale wheelsets???? Don, will your future #5 switches do it? Do BK switches work for both? What is the definitive answer??? (if there is one!) Rance Velapoldi [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12541	From: Scott Brown	Date: 4/1/2001
Subject: Brass Engines

I'm with you Chris. There is no way I would ever pay 3 grand for a toy train engine. My wife would leave me for sure. That or she would have me committed for a psych evaluation. LOL. She about had a coronary when I told her I paid $400 for a 21139 Northern (which we all know is worth twice that). Now, if we could get something similar to brass but closer to the price of plastic, only in diecast, we would be going the right direction. American Models has a very nice steamer ( yes, you heard me correct - for those that thought I was a total AM hater). One of our club members, Bill Novak, has one of the B&O engines and it runs very well. But it would be so much nicer in diecast. Guess it just costs way too much to make engines in diecast. Maybe that's the reason we only have the choice between plastic and brass. Diecast might take the price up towards the brass prices. Bummer !! I did hear through the rumor mill that MTH might be coming out with a steamer for us next year. Let's keep our fingers crossed. Scott Brown Atlantic Coast S Gaugers Washington & Old Dominion Division

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12542	From: Scott Brown	Date: 4/1/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 966

Along with the steamers, I'd really love to have some current Diesel engines. Plastic is fine. I'd love to have a couple of Norfolk Southern Dash 9s like I get to see out here in Virginia. UP, CSX, and Canadian Pacific would be swell too !! I too have a hammer and a prybar to make make those long, sleek, bad boys run on my layout. LOL. Just dreaming ..... we now return you to your regularly scheduled program......... Scott Brown Atlantic Coast S Gaugers Washington & Old Dominion Division

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12543	From: eddie rickenbacker	Date: 4/1/2001
Subject: Re: LTI PASS CAR CRACK

The LTI observation cars crack at the drumhead, too?Oy gevalt- ALL the Gilbert observations crack, eventually-so modern plastic hasn't repaired the problem? The only luck i've had stopping/fixing the crack at the drumhead has been to spread the crack and treat both sides of it with LockQwick Primer. BE CAREFUL TO KEEP IT AWAY FROM THE FINISH!! After a day or 2, a good gel-type, gap filling CA glue will do the trick. I do a lot of mixed media aircraft models-photoetch, resin, diecast and plastic parts in one kit- and my pet brand is the mix that Branford Hobbies has for their house brans. He's notopen on mondays, but look him up in CT directory. Mark (the owner) will ship anywhere in the US. Branford is the "city, please" to ask for. LockQuick primer is available at any auto parts store. spray it into a cup and apply with a Q-tip or syringe.BTW, I've used the two to (so far) successfully repair die cast breakage -AND-the dread zinc rot!! A friend's Std ga 390 had the front boiler mounting lug break off, I used lockquick and Branford Hobbie's CA to reattach it, and it is still holding together 3 years later(he runs this loco frequently)It's worth a try-john marganski __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12544	From: eddie rickenbacker	Date: 4/1/2001
Subject: Re: Ideal Plastic Automobile Kits

The ITC (Ideal Toy Corp) cars were somewhere around 1/55-1/60 scale. others i recall were an MG-TD/Jag XK-120, Ferrari Barchetta/55 T-Bird (the T has an ugly solid plastic windscreen) so that keaves 2 I can't recall. Glencoe Models was reissuing the ITC line for the last 10 years-there was a two pack of a diamond stack 4-2-0 and a cabbage stack(i think) Mogul, of which the little guy did get reissued. Glencoe did start reissuing the Aurora WW1 aircraft, and apparently died because I haven't seen the (promised for) 8 Aurora kits for spring 1999-double drat!!!! scour the hobby shops-i scored the diamond stack loco and the ferrari at the previously mentioned Branford Hobbies.-john marganski __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12545	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 4/1/2001
Subject: Re: American Models Switch

I run a LTI NP set with pickup shoes on the Alco trucks and an AF 293 with tender pick up shoes and have had no problems with my AM code 148 switches. Never exhaustively tested this because I never thought of it before. We also run everything under the sun through some of these switches on the hirail side of our RASG club modules without apparent problems. dav21248@... wrote: > > How well does the American Models 148 Switch work with > American Flyer. Is there a problem with the drag shoe > dropping in the open frog on their switch? > Thanks, > Dave Loucks > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12546	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 4/1/2001
Subject: Re: Switches

BK closing frog switches with code 148 rail work well for scale and hirail on our RASG modules. They come as kits and need to be spiked down. We also bought some from Terry Harrison a few years ago that were built up and work very well. Velapoldi's wrote: > > Hi all: > > Just one general question (which turned into a few specific!). I know > there has been a great amount of discussion on switches, and their use > with high rail and scale wheels. I currently operate highrail, but > definitely want to keep the option open for scale operation. Therefore: > are there any switches around code 125 size that operate well with both > high rail and scale wheelsets???? Don, will your future #5 switches do > it? Do BK switches work for both? What is the definitive answer??? (if > there is one!) > Rance Velapoldi > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12547	From: Robert Allen Conner NCARB Architect	Date: 4/1/2001
Subject: s mags

would like your mags...can you tell me more..condition...shipping...tec...need to fill in many holes...bob...contact me direct at rcon@... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12548	From: donabrams	Date: 4/1/2001
Subject: MTH Coal Loader

To those on the list who have purchased one. What's under the hood? Is it AC or DC powered? What's the motor like? If AC powered does it have a rectifier to power a DC motor? How many Volts to operate? Does the string wind up the same way onto a drum? Is the clamshell coil AC or DC? Does the coil get 'hot' to the touch? Are the wires to the clamshell cloth covered and super flexible like the original? Will it dig into the coal pile pretty good or does a big finger have to come out out the sky to assist? Thanks, Don

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12549	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 4/1/2001
Subject: MTH Web site

Does MTH have a Web site?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12550	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 4/1/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Switches

Dear Rance, I guess this question is for us, as there are lots of S Dons and I know that two of them make switches (Don H of Scenery Unlimited's Shinahara. Our next swtich is a #6, will have a self guarding frog and will operate both AF compatible and RP-25, code 110 wheels. We are hoping to have these next year. Don T . Velapoldi's wrote: > Hi all: > > Just one general question (which turned into a few specific!). I know > there has been a great amount of discussion on switches, and their use > with high rail and scale wheels. I currently operate highrail, but > definitely want to keep the option open for scale operation. Therefore: > are there any switches around code 125 size that operate well with both > high rail and scale wheelsets???? Don, will your future #5 switches do > it? Do BK switches work for both? What is the definitive answer??? (if > there is one!) > Rance Velapoldi > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > The topic is S Scale please keep your messages 'on-topic'. > To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New 2nd run reefers are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12551	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 4/1/2001
Subject: 302AC

Got two of these, well actually my son and daughter each redceived one from Santa 2 years ago. Fantastically reliable, strong, smooth, fast and fun - - and all for about $50 a piece (at least that's what Santa's elves told me). As previously advised, sounds like the reverese unit rachet prawl isn't advancing the barrel with every power cycle or some number of fingers isn't making positive contact with the barrel. Correct armature washers fore and aft, clean comms, correct and ample brushes and springs make a big difference too. To look for the reverse unit issues, remove the tender shell as advised, and first test for the prawl action without the engine connected. If that's OK, reattach the engine, put the engine end tender up on blocks (engine such that drive wheels can turn), then cycle the reverse unit. As you do, press lightly with a toothpick on each finger on the drum. You'll usually find the guilty party. Assuming the barrel is clean, the finger either needs to be cleaned (small strip of 600 grit slipped under and moved back and forth), pressure adjusted (careful not too much or your reverse unit will cause the engine to "drift" when shifting when cycling between modes instead of responding crisply), or replaced. I usually fill the tips (cupped section) of mine with solder for extra body and heat sink. Best of all, if you haven't already, take this as an opportunity to disassemble, clean, inspect, and replace all worn parts on your 302AC from cow catcher to tender coupler. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12552	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 4/1/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, April 1, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12553	From: Velapoldi's	Date: 4/1/2001
Subject: Re Snow white and the seven dwarfs

During the last few days, I have received at least 5 mailings of "Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs" from "Hahaha". I seem to remember that our lists said that this message included a virus so I have just deep sixed the messages (even though I have Norton antivirus). Any knowledge of this? Tx. Rance Velapoldi

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12554	From: Ted Weiler	Date: 4/1/2001
Subject: Re: Re Snow white and the seven dwarfs

I get this periodically and my version of Norton identifies it and makes it safe. I then delete it without opening. It is a bad virus!!!!!!!! Ted Weiler

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12555	From: Michael Greene	Date: 4/1/2001
Subject: S scale products from Berkshire Junction

Yesterday I stopped by the NMRA Hub Division's Spring Convention & Show in Dedham, Massachusetts to pick up some DCC items from someone. This year the HUB division's spring convention was billed as a Model Railroading College, and they had a dozen or so clinics on various aspects of model railroading running throughout the day. In addition they had: - a small train show -- probably 12-20 dealers, - a learn about NMRA DCC area where you could try out various systems, and - several of their modular group's modules (HO) setup to show a railroad in operation. Five dollar admission ($3 for NMRA members) got you admission to everything. While it was not large as compared to a regional or national convention, it was busy. One of the clinics I looked in on had about 25 people sitting in the seats. While I was there I found out that one of the companies in the dealer area was a local multi-gauge manufacturer who has just started producing some items for S scale. The company is Berkshire Junction and you can find their web site at http://www.berkshirejunction.com Berkshire Junction is an interesting supplier to me, in that they attempt to offer complete solutions. They have several lines in their catalog, and also go to the trouble to re-sell other manufacturers' products to offer the complete solution. For example, they produce a Gate Activators "package" with everything you need to add lights and motion to your crossing gates. The package has 2 motors (one for each side), detection (three options: photo cell, infrared, or current sensing), flashing, and the activation controller. And they re-sell the NJI crossing gates (including the S scale ones if you like). So with a package from them it appears you can have everything up and running. If you already have your S scale NJI crossing gates, then you can just get the activation package to activate it. And they really had the S scale cross gates available for sale. So I could have left the show with an entire package. They also have cross-bucks in S scale with flashing lights, and of course the electronics and sensors you need to get them up and running. They were for sale at the show. And they have recently acquired the line of traffic signals from Burt Industries. This line includes stop lights on poles as well as hanging lights (3 color and warning/blinking). And after acquiring the line they have started to expand it to include other scales not represented in the Burt Industries line. Including S -- at this show they were selling pole mounted traffic signals in S. Another manufacturer of products for S. One of the owners indicated that he was interested to see if any S gaugers showed up. I saw at least three there, during the hour I was aroudn talking with folks. Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12556	From: loubaldi@aol.com	Date: 4/1/2001
Subject: Re: MTH Web site

--- In S-Trains@y..., Peter Ervin <pjervin@h...> wrote: > Does MTH have a Web site? Peter, MTH's Web site address is: http://www.mth-railking.com/ Lou

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12557	From: Nick and Becky Colleran	Date: 4/1/2001
Subject: Are we sure Lionel owns Gilbert name?

I am interested in knowing if anyone has researched the disposition of the Gilbert name after 1967. Are we assuming that Lionel owns it because they began using it in the late 1990's? I noticed that they were also claiming the "numbering system". If I recall they showed Gilbert with a "TM" rather than a circled "R", indicating that it is not a registered trademark. I remember seeing Gilbert Erector by Gabriel in the early 1970's. The Hollywood crowd that took over Lionel is very good with the copyright, trademark and other intellectual property games. If they can get enough folks to say they own something like the Gilbert name or numbering system, they will indeed own it. (I seem to recall from my real property law class that real estate can be acquired in the same way.) Enough rambling from me and back to my original question: Did Lionel acquire the Gilbert name? If so, why did they let the registration lapse and only begin to use the name on product i.e. the box in 1997? Inquiring minds want to know. --- Nick Colleran >Message: 17 > Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 21:07:37 -0500 > From: Robin Thompson <robin@...> >Subject: Re: Toys Again > >Dear Ktrdd, > Lionel holds the trade mark for the name "American Flyer" and "A.C. >Gilbert". But, MTH can make the exact item like the coal loader (as AM did >with >the updated and improved PA) and can sell them as long as they do not call it >"American Flyer". You can make something totally new, but if you put "American >Flyer" or "American Flyer Lines" on the product, you would get sued for >trademark infringement. You do not need permission to advertise products as >being "American Flyer®" compatible as long as we include the trademark and site >Lionel as the owner of the trademark. >Don T. > >Ktrdd@... wrote: > >> Hi there, again, >> >> All model trains are toys and all trainists are of the same fellowship, but >> ----can't help myself here. In looking at Classic Trains Mag and the photos >> of Lionel stuff on rails--must comment. Their rolling stock looks like >> roller skates with kitchen matchboxes mounted on them ---ugh. Couldn't have >> it here. No matter how it is dressed up in pictures, the old roller skate >> starts moving around on me! Now there's a rip: Start calling them >> "Skaters."? >> Does Lionel have the "rights" on everything connected with old flyer?---Is >> this still the case 35 years later? Chat says so, but I just want to hear >> it? Does it include all of the old equipment including track? Or what does >> it include? Can anyone just go ahead and produce look-a-like flyer stuff or >> what? Just curious. Or is it simply the name itself? Johnson Roadbed seems >> to be a dead-on dup for old roadbed so that confuses this guy. With 600+ >> electron members, this group should be able to manage a coup to revive flyer >> on a big scale---S that is. If we can't get a cheaper S product into >> production for youth, S could die with the old guys. Given the state of >> manufacture in the U.S., The new Flyer could be called Eastern Flyer--that >> would avoid the name problem anyway. >> >Message: 19 > Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 21:47:44 -0500 > From: "gino restivo" <lastman@...> >Subject: Re: Toys Again > >as explained to me by a corporate / patent attorney >they own the name and all rights to it ..... >all patents have ceased after 20 years if not kept in force , >meaning their are no long term lapse's in production .... > if you want to make them you can not use a.f.l. , acg ... etc >on any items of any kind , > >continental flyer kinda fizzeled out due to the death of >1 or more of the original 3 persons trying to bring out >this train line , their was several stories on this in >S gaugian mag yr's ago aprox late 80's , if i run across >any i will post issue # ..... > >L will not sell the name , and in the past many wanted to revive >the a.f. train line but could not come up with the money to >do this . again i would gladly contribute my talents to this >project , metal casting , molding .. etc .. but i don't have >access to large amounts of money to do this ....... > >gsr. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Ktrdd@... <Ktrdd@...> >To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> >Date: Saturday, March 31, 2001 7:43 PM >Subject: [S-Trains] Toys Again > > >>Hi there, again, >> >>All model trains are toys and all trainists are of the same fellowship, but >>----can't help myself here. In looking at Classic Trains Mag and the >photos >>of Lionel stuff on rails--must comment. Their rolling stock looks like >>roller skates with kitchen matchboxes mounted on them ---ugh. Couldn't >have >>it here. No matter how it is dressed up in pictures, the old roller skate >>starts moving around on me! Now there's a rip: Start calling them >>"Skaters."? >>Does Lionel have the "rights" on everything connected with old flyer?---Is >>this still the case 35 years later? Chat says so, but I just want to hear >>it? Does it include all of the old equipment including track? Or what >does >>it include? Can anyone just go ahead and produce look-a-like flyer stuff >or >>what? Just curious. Or is it simply the name itself? Johnson Roadbed >seems >>to be a dead-on dup for old roadbed so that confuses this guy. With 600+ >>electron members, this group should be able to manage a coup to revive >flyer >>on a big scale---S that is. If we can't get a cheaper S product into >>production for youth, S could die with the old guys. Given the state of >>manufacture in the U.S., The new Flyer could be called Eastern Flyer--that >>would avoid the name problem anyway. >> >> >>John R >> >>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12558	From: loubaldi@aol.com	Date: 4/1/2001
Subject: 650 Passenger Car Repairs

I have three 650 Passenger Cars that the bosses have crack and broken apart. There is no longer enough boss left to insert the pins that hold the die-cast floor frame to the shell. About a year ago in CTT I read about making this kind of a repair to a Lionel box car using masking tape to make a mold and filling it with epoxy glue to create a new boss to drill. I have talk to some AF guys who say stay away from using epoxies to repair these bakelite cars as the glue has a tendency to shrink with time and could cause the shells to crack. Has anyone made this type of repair to AF Passenger cars with success? Is there other options or methods of repairs that could be used? Any advise or tips will be greatly apperciated. These shells are in excellent condition other than the broken bosses. I hate to destroy them in the process of trying to make this repair. Thanks, Lou

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12559	From: W. Thomas Boussum	Date: 4/1/2001
Subject: Ideal Model Cars.

Harry and other S-Gaugers, I happen to have purchased the entire two sets of Ideal car models during the late 50s. They made two lines: a "modern" and an "antique" set. The modern series included the GM-Buick prototype LeSabre from the early 50s a Curtiss type Indy car of the time, and a 1955 Thunderbird, along with several others. The antique set included a center door Model T from the mid-20s, an old Packard (1903 I beleive), a Stanley Steamer, and the Stutz Bearcat from the teens, among others. They sold in about 1957 or 1960 for the price of two for $0.25 and were fairly well scaled models of their intended prototypes. I believe that they scale out to approximately 1:72, or a bit small for S and a bit large for HO. I have, however, used them on layouts in both gauges, and they do look nice, as long as you do not get them too close to the trains. Unfortunately, after a couple of moves most of these cars have disappeared, along with some rather nice F&F Mold and Die Works 1955 Fords that were Post cereal handouts during the early to mid fifties that were very close to S scale. One of these Crown Victorias is very close to the American Chrome version of the Crown Victoria. It's a shame that I lost these cars, but that is the cost of moving. Ah, those good old models... W. Thomas Boussum "If you want to bake an apple pie from scratch, you must start by creating the universe." Carl Sagan in "Cosmos" Message: 13 Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 18:54:38 -0500 From: "hgbutler" <hgbutler@...> Subject: Ideal Plastic Automobile Kits Today I saw an older double kit made by Ideal Plastics for a Stutz roadster and a Model T (touring car, I believe it said), part of a line of 8, I think. They looked somewhat oversize for S, but I didn't have anything available for comparison. Does anyone know the approximate scale(s) of these kits? If not, can anyone point me to a source of dimensions for the abovementioned cars? Thanks, Harry Butler [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12560	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 4/1/2001
Subject: AF Baldwin armatures

Does anyone have a couple of AF Baldwin armatures they can part with? Don't care if windings are bad, but commutators must be good. Roger Petrella Franktown, CO

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12561	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 4/1/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 966

Scott wrote: >Along with the steamers, I'd really love to have some current Diesel >engines. Plastic is fine. I'd love to have a couple of Norfolk Southern Dash >9s like I get to see out here in Virginia. UP, CSX, and Canadian Pacific >would be swell too !! Yeah! Go SCOTT!! Santa Fe, BN, and BNSF have a few fans as well. >I too have a hammer and a prybar to make make those >long, sleek, bad boys run on my layout. LOL. If one of these mfgrs put their mind to it, they could come up with a Dash 9 that would do Flyer curves. Shoot, if O gaugers can do scale length E-units that make 15.5" radius curves, S can do a scale length Dash 9 that will make 19" radius curves. It might, I say MIGHT take moving pilots, but if it did, provisions could be made for an alternate frame mount of the pilots for folks with wider curves. >we now return you to your regularly scheduled program......... Yep, back to the '50s... Scott, are you getting as antsy for that AM SD60 as I'm getting? Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12562	From: hgbutler	Date: 4/1/2001
Subject: Re: Ideal Plastic Automobile Kits

Thanks, John, that gives me something to work with. -- I've seen a few Glencoe models (a 1/59th scale early Packard and some 1/90th scale wagons/stage coaches/or the like), and I wondered if they were reissues, since the scales were so odd. Glencoe does still exist: http://www.glencoemodels.com, and I think I saw some WWI planes listed on their site (though I didn't check availability. On another note, of interest to some, I suspect, is a resin kit for a Cadillac hearse in 1/64th scale that I spotted on e-bay this evening: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=575337451. No maker is listed. Harry ----- Original Message ----- From: "eddie rickenbacker" <druvnik@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 10:34 AM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Ideal Plastic Automobile Kits > > The ITC (Ideal Toy Corp) cars were somewhere around > 1/55-1/60 scale. others i recall were an MG-TD/Jag > XK-120, Ferrari Barchetta/55 T-Bird (the T has an ugly > solid plastic windscreen) so that keaves 2 I can't > recall. Glencoe Models was reissuing the ITC line for > the last 10 years-there was a two pack of a diamond > stack 4-2-0 and a cabbage stack(i think) Mogul, of > which the little guy did get reissued. Glencoe did > start reissuing the Aurora WW1 aircraft, and > apparently died because I haven't seen the (promised > for) 8 Aurora kits for spring 1999-double drat!!!! > scour the hobby shops-i scored the diamond stack loco > and the ferrari at the previously mentioned Branford > Hobbies.-john marganski > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12563	From: Nick and Becky Colleran	Date: 4/1/2001
Subject: Gilbert trademark

I decided to check the Lionel - Gilbert trademark on the net. They registered "Gilbert" for toy trains and parts in 1998. The new owners must have caught this and moved to secure the rights. If you want to see it click: http://www.marksonline.com/app/tmsearch/find_mark?tok=gilbert&submit=Search Too bad someone else did not do this sooner. Of course, many suppliers have used the Gilbert name in the intervening 30 years. However, I doubt that anyone has the cash or inclination to question their newly claimed ownership of the name. --- Nick Colleran

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12564	From: Bruce Crosby	Date: 4/2/2001
Subject: Repair of AF Commutators

S-Group: I had a friend bring over an AF Northern Loco with the large motor in it, that wouldn't run. We took it apart and found that the former owner had placed two springs in each of the brush holders and there by caused the copper Commentator on the armature to be wore down to the bakelite. The bakelite wasn't broken or cracked so we were able to fix the Commentator. We'd be willing to fix anyone's commentators for $10.00 each (flat ones not round ones) (will check & fix straightness of armature shaft, too), if anyone is interested. (postage paid from my end).............just to help keep those Flyer Toys Running!!! If interested please e-mail me direct at: abcrosby@... and place the word COMMENTATOR in subject line. Thanks............. Bruce Crosby Hutchinson, MN abcrosby@... NMRA # 114573 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12565	From: jd	Date: 4/2/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 967

Hi lou; Contact Steve at> Boss31@... he did my repairs on a Loco Mounts he has a great product and neat repair methods and reasonable hope this helps <jde> John S-Trains@yahoogroups.com wrote: > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > There are 25 messages in this issue. > > Topics in this digest: > > 1. Re: American Models Switch > From: Howell S Jobbins <hsjobbins@...> > 2. Switches > From: Velapoldi's <velapoldi@...> > 3. Re:Brass Engines > From: "Scott Brown" <sbrown56@...> > 4. Re: Digest Number 966 > From: "Scott Brown" <sbrown56@...> > 5. Re: LTI PASS CAR CRACK > From: eddie rickenbacker <druvnik@...> > 6. Re: Ideal Plastic Automobile Kits > From: eddie rickenbacker <druvnik@...> > 7. Re: American Models Switch > From: Chuck Smith <cesmith@...> > 8. Re: Switches > From: Chuck Smith <cesmith@...> > 9. s mags > From: "Robert Allen Conner NCARB Architect" <RCON@...> > 10. MTH Coal Loader > From: "donabrams" <donabrams@...> > 11. MTH Web site > From: Peter Ervin <pjervin@...> > 12. Re: [S-Scale] Switches > From: Robin Thompson <robin@...> > 13. 302AC > From: david_horn@... > 14. Reminder - Sunday Chat > From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com > 15. Re Snow white and the seven dwarfs > From: Velapoldi's <velapoldi@...> > 16. Re: Re Snow white and the seven dwarfs > From: "Ted Weiler" <tjweiler@...> > 17. S scale products from Berkshire Junction > From: Michael Greene <mgreene@...> > 18. Re: MTH Web site > From: loubaldi@... > 19. Are we sure Lionel owns Gilbert name? > From: Nick and Becky Colleran <colleran@...> > 20. 650 Passenger Car Repairs > From: loubaldi@... > 21. Ideal Model Cars. > From: "W. Thomas Boussum" <euler@...> > 22. AF Baldwin armatures > From: "Roger V. Petrella Jr." <rogerpjr@...> > 23. Re: Digest Number 966 > From: eighthmile@... > 24. Re: Ideal Plastic Automobile Kits > From: "hgbutler" <hgbutler@...> > 25. Gilbert trademark > From: Nick and Becky Colleran <colleran@...> > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 07:30:20 -0400 > From: Howell S Jobbins <hsjobbins@...> > Subject: Re: American Models Switch > > Dave, > The American Models Switches work great with all Hi-rail equipment, just > a problem with Scale smaller flanged wheels. If you are referring to the > magnetic "drag shoe" of the AF style couplers, you must adjust the arm > from the truck center using small pliers to correct height. You can use a > S Helper or American Models car as a model for proper height. I run the > Hi-rail wheels, but am in the middle of refitting all stuff with Kadee > #802 scale couplers, as they look so much better, and the cars mate much > closer together, as in the real thing. If your referring about the diesel > power pickup, I have never had a problem. > > On Sun, 01 Apr 2001 04:44:51 -0000 dav21248@... writes: > > How well does the American Models 148 Switch work with > > American Flyer. Is there a problem with the drag shoe > > dropping in the open frog on their switch? > > Thanks, > > Dave Loucks > > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2001 14:46:29 +0200 > From: Velapoldi's <velapoldi@...> > Subject: Switches > > Hi all: > > Just one general question (which turned into a few specific!). I know > there has been a great amount of discussion on switches, and their use > with high rail and scale wheels. I currently operate highrail, but > definitely want to keep the option open for scale operation. Therefore: > are there any switches around code 125 size that operate well with both > high rail and scale wheelsets???? Don, will your future #5 switches do > it? Do BK switches work for both? What is the definitive answer??? (if > there is one!) > Rance Velapoldi > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 09:10:16 -0400 > From: "Scott Brown" <sbrown56@...> > Subject: Re:Brass Engines > > I'm with you Chris. > There is no way I would ever pay 3 grand for a toy train engine. My wife > would leave me for sure. That or she would have me committed for a psych > evaluation. LOL. She about had a coronary when I told her I paid $400 for a > 21139 Northern (which we all know is worth twice that). Now, if we could get > something similar to brass but closer to the price of plastic, only in > diecast, we would be going the right direction. American Models has a very > nice steamer ( yes, you heard me correct - for those that thought I was a > total AM hater). One of our club members, Bill Novak, has one of the B&O > engines and it runs very well. But it would be so much nicer in diecast. > Guess it just costs way too much to make engines in diecast. Maybe that's > the reason we only have the choice between plastic and brass. Diecast might > take the price up towards the brass prices. Bummer !! I did hear through the > rumor mill that MTH might be coming out with a steamer for us next year. > Let's keep our fingers crossed. > > Scott Brown > Atlantic Coast S Gaugers > Washington & Old Dominion Division > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 09:24:24 -0400 > From: "Scott Brown" <sbrown56@...> > Subject: Re: Digest Number 966 > > Along with the steamers, I'd really love to have some current Diesel > engines. Plastic is fine. I'd love to have a couple of Norfolk Southern Dash > 9s like I get to see out here in Virginia. UP, CSX, and Canadian Pacific > would be swell too !! I too have a hammer and a prybar to make make those > long, sleek, bad boys run on my layout. LOL. Just dreaming ..... we now > return you to your regularly scheduled program......... > > Scott Brown > Atlantic Coast S Gaugers > Washington & Old Dominion Division > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 5 > Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 07:21:24 -0700 (PDT) > From: eddie rickenbacker <druvnik@...> > Subject: Re: LTI PASS CAR CRACK > > The LTI observation cars crack at the drumhead, too?Oy > gevalt- > ALL the Gilbert observations crack, eventually-so > modern plastic hasn't repaired the problem? The only > luck i've had stopping/fixing the crack at the > drumhead has been to spread the crack and treat both > sides of it with LockQwick Primer. BE CAREFUL TO KEEP > IT AWAY FROM THE FINISH!! After a day or 2, a good > gel-type, gap filling CA glue will do the trick. I do > a lot of mixed media aircraft models-photoetch, resin, > diecast and plastic parts in one kit- and my pet brand > is the mix that Branford Hobbies has for their house > brans. He's notopen on mondays, but look him up in CT > directory. Mark (the owner) will ship anywhere in the > US. Branford is the "city, please" to ask for. > LockQuick primer is available at any auto parts store. > spray it into a cup and apply with a Q-tip or > syringe.BTW, I've used the two to (so far) > successfully repair die cast breakage -AND-the dread > zinc rot!! A friend's Std ga 390 had the front boiler > mounting lug break off, I used lockquick and Branford > Hobbie's CA to reattach it, and it is still holding > together 3 years later(he runs this loco > frequently)It's worth a try-john marganski > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 6 > Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 07:34:23 -0700 (PDT) > From: eddie rickenbacker <druvnik@...> > Subject: Re: Ideal Plastic Automobile Kits > > The ITC (Ideal Toy Corp) cars were somewhere around > 1/55-1/60 scale. others i recall were an MG-TD/Jag > XK-120, Ferrari Barchetta/55 T-Bird (the T has an ugly > solid plastic windscreen) so that keaves 2 I can't > recall. Glencoe Models was reissuing the ITC line for > the last 10 years-there was a two pack of a diamond > stack 4-2-0 and a cabbage stack(i think) Mogul, of > which the little guy did get reissued. Glencoe did > start reissuing the Aurora WW1 aircraft, and > apparently died because I haven't seen the (promised > for) 8 Aurora kits for spring 1999-double drat!!!! > scour the hobby shops-i scored the diamond stack loco > and the ferrari at the previously mentioned Branford > Hobbies.-john marganski > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 7 > Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2001 11:03:19 -0400 > From: Chuck Smith <cesmith@...> > Subject: Re: American Models Switch > > I run a LTI NP set with pickup shoes on the Alco trucks and an AF 293 > with tender pick up shoes and have had no problems with my AM code 148 > switches. Never exhaustively tested this because I never thought of it > before. We also run everything under the sun through some of these > switches on the hirail side of our RASG club modules without apparent > problems. > > dav21248@... wrote: > > > > How well does the American Models 148 Switch work with > > American Flyer. Is there a problem with the drag shoe > > dropping in the open frog on their switch? > > Thanks, > > Dave Loucks > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > -- > Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) > and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith > > "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool > than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 8 > Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2001 11:08:13 -0400 > From: Chuck Smith <cesmith@...> > Subject: Re: Switches > > BK closing frog switches with code 148 rail work well for scale and > hirail on our RASG modules. They come as kits and need to be spiked > down. We also bought some from Terry Harrison a few years ago that were > built up and work very well. > > Velapoldi's wrote: > > > > Hi all: > > > > Just one general question (which turned into a few specific!). I know > > there has been a great amount of discussion on switches, and their use > > with high rail and scale wheels. I currently operate highrail, but > > definitely want to keep the option open for scale operation. Therefore: > > are there any switches around code 125 size that operate well with both > > high rail and scale wheelsets???? Don, will your future #5 switches do > > it? Do BK switches work for both? What is the definitive answer??? (if > > there is one!) > > Rance Velapoldi > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > -- > Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) > and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith > > "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool > than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 9 > Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 12:12:45 -0400 > From: "Robert Allen Conner NCARB Architect" <RCON@...> > Subject: s mags > > would like your mags...can you tell me more..condition...shipping...tec...need to fill in many holes...bob...contact me direct at rcon@... > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 10 > Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 12:16:01 -0400 > From: "donabrams" <donabrams@...> > Subject: MTH Coal Loader > > To those on the list who have purchased one. > > What's under the hood? > Is it AC or DC powered? > What's the motor like? > If AC powered does it have a rectifier to power a DC motor? > How many Volts to operate? > Does the string wind up the same way onto a drum? > Is the clamshell coil AC or DC? Does the coil get 'hot' to the touch? > Are the wires to the clamshell cloth covered and super flexible like the > original? > Will it dig into the coal pile pretty good or does a big finger have to come > out out the sky to assist? > > Thanks, > Don > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 11 > Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2001 12:25:07 -0700 > From: Peter Ervin <pjervin@...> > Subject: MTH Web site > > Does MTH have a Web site? > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 12 > Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2001 12:47:30 -0400 > From: Robin Thompson <robin@...> > Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Switches > > Dear Rance, > I guess this question is for us, as there are lots of S Dons and I know > that two of them make switches (Don H of Scenery Unlimited's Shinahara. Our > next swtich is a #6, will have a self guarding frog and will operate both AF > compatible and RP-25, code 110 wheels. We are hoping to have these next > year. > Don T . > > Velapoldi's wrote: > > > Hi all: > > > > Just one general question (which turned into a few specific!). I know > > there has been a great amount of discussion on switches, and their use > > with high rail and scale wheels. I currently operate highrail, but > > definitely want to keep the option open for scale operation. Therefore: > > are there any switches around code 125 size that operate well with both > > high rail and scale wheelsets???? Don, will your future #5 switches do > > it? Do BK switches work for both? What is the definitive answer??? (if > > there is one!) > > Rance Velapoldi > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > The topic is S Scale please keep your messages 'on-topic'. > > To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > -- Don Thompson > S Helper Service Inc. > http://www.showcaseline.com > 1.800.465.0303 > New 2nd run reefers are now shipping! > http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 13 > Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 13:50:58 -0400 > From: david_horn@... > Subject: 302AC > > Got two of these, well actually my son and daughter each redceived one from > Santa 2 years ago. Fantastically reliable, strong, smooth, fast and fun - - > and all for about $50 a piece (at least that's what Santa's elves told me). > As previously advised, sounds like the reverese unit rachet prawl isn't > advancing the barrel with every power cycle or some number of fingers isn't > making positive contact with the barrel. Correct armature washers fore and > aft, clean comms, correct and ample brushes and springs make a big > difference too. > > To look for the reverse unit issues, remove the tender shell as advised, and > first test for the prawl action without the engine connected. If that's OK, > reattach the engine, put the engine end tender up on blocks (engine such > that drive wheels can turn), then cycle the reverse unit. As you do, press > lightly with a toothpick on each finger on the drum. You'll usually find > the guilty party. Assuming the barrel is clean, the finger either needs to > be cleaned (small strip of 600 grit slipped under and moved back and forth), > pressure adjusted (careful not too much or your reverse unit will cause the > engine to "drift" when shifting when cycling between modes instead of > responding crisply), or replaced. I usually fill the tips (cupped section) > of mine with solder for extra body and heat sink. > > Best of all, if you haven't already, take this as an opportunity to > disassemble, clean, inspect, and replace all worn parts on your 302AC from > cow catcher to tender coupler. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 14 > Date: 1 Apr 2001 21:02:01 -0000 > From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat > > We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. > > Sunday Chat > > Date: Sunday, April 1, 2001 > Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) > > Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page > http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 15 > Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2001 23:57:06 +0200 > From: Velapoldi's <velapoldi@...> > Subject: Re Snow white and the seven dwarfs > > During the last few days, I have received at least 5 mailings of "Snow > White and the Seven Dwarfs" from "Hahaha". I seem to remember that our > lists said that this message included a virus so I have just deep sixed > the messages (even though I have Norton antivirus). Any knowledge of > this? Tx. > Rance Velapoldi > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 16 > Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 17:40:28 -0500 > From: "Ted Weiler" <tjweiler@...> > Subject: Re: Re Snow white and the seven dwarfs > > I get this periodically and my version of Norton identifies it and makes it > safe. I then delete it without opening. It is a bad virus!!!!!!!! > > Ted Weiler > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 17 > Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2001 19:23:12 -0400 > From: Michael Greene <mgreene@...> > Subject: S scale products from Berkshire Junction > > Yesterday I stopped by the NMRA Hub Division's Spring Convention & Show in > Dedham, Massachusetts to pick up some DCC items from someone. This year the > HUB division's spring convention was billed as a Model Railroading College, > and they had a dozen or so clinics on various aspects of model railroading > running throughout the day. In addition they had: > - a small train show -- probably 12-20 dealers, > - a learn about NMRA DCC area where you could try out various systems, and > - several of their modular group's modules (HO) setup to show a railroad in > operation. > > Five dollar admission ($3 for NMRA members) got you admission to everything. > > While it was not large as compared to a regional or national convention, it > was busy. One of the clinics I looked in on had about 25 people sitting in > the seats. > > While I was there I found out that one of the companies in the dealer area > was a local multi-gauge manufacturer who has just started producing some > items for S scale. The company is Berkshire Junction and you can find their > web site at http://www.berkshirejunction.com Berkshire Junction is an > interesting supplier to me, in that they attempt to offer complete > solutions. They have several lines in their catalog, and also go to the > trouble to re-sell other manufacturers' products to offer the complete > solution. For example, they produce a Gate Activators "package" with > everything you need to add lights and motion to your crossing gates. The > package has 2 motors (one for each side), detection (three options: photo > cell, infrared, or current sensing), flashing, and the activation > controller. And they re-sell the NJI crossing gates (including the S scale > ones if you like). So with a package from them it appears you can have > everything up and running. If you already have your S scale NJI crossing > gates, then you can just get the activation package to activate it. And > they really had the S scale cross gates available for sale. So I could have > left the show with an entire package. > > They also have cross-bucks in S scale with flashing lights, and of course > the electronics and sensors you need to get them up and running. They were > for sale at the show. > > And they have recently acquired the line of traffic signals from Burt > Industries. This line includes stop lights on poles as well as hanging > lights (3 color and warning/blinking). And after acquiring the line they > have started to expand it to include other scales not represented in the > Burt Industries line. Including S -- at this show they were selling pole > mounted traffic signals in S. > > Another manufacturer of products for S. One of the owners indicated that he > was interested to see if any S gaugers showed up. I saw at least three > there, during the hour I was aroudn talking with folks. > > Michael > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 18 > Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 00:08:31 -0000 > From: loubaldi@... > Subject: Re: MTH Web site > > --- In S-Trains@y..., Peter Ervin <pjervin@h...> wrote: > > Does MTH have a Web site? > > Peter, > MTH's Web site address is: > http://www.mth-railking.com/ > Lou > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 19 > Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2001 20:24:49 -0400 > From: Nick and Becky Colleran <colleran@...> > Subject: Are we sure Lionel owns Gilbert name? > > I am interested in knowing if anyone has researched the disposition > of the Gilbert name after 1967. Are we assuming that Lionel owns it > because they began using it in the late 1990's? I noticed that they > were also claiming the "numbering system". > > If I recall they showed Gilbert with a "TM" rather than a circled "R", > indicating that it is not a registered trademark. I remember seeing > Gilbert Erector by Gabriel in the early 1970's. > > The Hollywood crowd that took over Lionel is very good with the > copyright, trademark and other intellectual property games. If they > can get enough folks to say they own something like the Gilbert > name or numbering system, they will indeed own it. (I seem to > recall from my real property law class that real estate can be > acquired in the same way.) > > Enough rambling from me and back to my original question: Did Lionel > acquire the Gilbert name? If so, why did they let the registration lapse > and only begin to use the name on product i.e. the box in 1997? > > Inquiring minds want to know. --- Nick Colleran > > >Message: 17 > > Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 21:07:37 -0500 > > From: Robin Thompson <robin@...> > >Subject: Re: Toys Again > > > >Dear Ktrdd, > > Lionel holds the trade mark for the name "American Flyer" and "A.C. > >Gilbert". But, MTH can make the exact item like the coal loader (as AM did > >with > >the updated and improved PA) and can sell them as long as they do not call it > >"American Flyer". You can make something totally new, but if you put > "American > >Flyer" or "American Flyer Lines" on the product, you would get sued for > >trademark infringement. You do not need permission to advertise products as > >being "American Flyer®" compatible as long as we include the trademark and > site > >Lionel as the owner of the trademark. > >Don T. > > > >Ktrdd@... wrote: > > > >> Hi there, again, > >> > >> All model trains are toys and all trainists are of the same fellowship, but > >> ----can't help myself here. In looking at Classic Trains Mag and the photos > >> of Lionel stuff on rails--must comment. Their rolling stock looks like > >> roller skates with kitchen matchboxes mounted on them ---ugh. Couldn't have > >> it here. No matter how it is dressed up in pictures, the old roller skate > >> starts moving around on me! Now there's a rip: Start calling them > >> "Skaters."? > >> Does Lionel have the "rights" on everything connected with old flyer?---Is > >> this still the case 35 years later? Chat says so, but I just want to hear > >> it? Does it include all of the old equipment including track? Or what does > >> it include? Can anyone just go ahead and produce look-a-like flyer stuff or > >> what? Just curious. Or is it simply the name itself? Johnson Roadbed seems > >> to be a dead-on dup for old roadbed so that confuses this guy. With 600+ > >> electron members, this group should be able to manage a coup to revive flyer > >> on a big scale---S that is. If we can't get a cheaper S product into > >> production for youth, S could die with the old guys. Given the state of > >> manufacture in the U.S., The new Flyer could be called Eastern Flyer--that > >> would avoid the name problem anyway. > >> > > >Message: 19 > > Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 21:47:44 -0500 > > From: "gino restivo" <lastman@...> > >Subject: Re: Toys Again > > > >as explained to me by a corporate / patent attorney > >they own the name and all rights to it ..... > >all patents have ceased after 20 years if not kept in force , > >meaning their are no long term lapse's in production .... > > if you want to make them you can not use a.f.l. , acg ... etc > >on any items of any kind , > > > >continental flyer kinda fizzeled out due to the death of > >1 or more of the original 3 persons trying to bring out > >this train line , their was several stories on this in > >S gaugian mag yr's ago aprox late 80's , if i run across > >any i will post issue # ..... > > > >L will not sell the name , and in the past many wanted to revive > >the a.f. train line but could not come up with the money to > >do this . again i would gladly contribute my talents to this > >project , metal casting , molding .. etc .. but i don't have > >access to large amounts of money to do this ....... > > > >gsr. > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Ktrdd@... <Ktrdd@...> > >To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> > >Date: Saturday, March 31, 2001 7:43 PM > >Subject: [S-Trains] Toys Again > > > > > >>Hi there, again, > >> > >>All model trains are toys and all trainists are of the same fellowship, but > >>----can't help myself here. In looking at Classic Trains Mag and the > >photos > >>of Lionel stuff on rails--must comment. Their rolling stock looks like > >>roller skates with kitchen matchboxes mounted on them ---ugh. Couldn't > >have > >>it here. No matter how it is dressed up in pictures, the old roller skate > >>starts moving around on me! Now there's a rip: Start calling them > >>"Skaters."? > >>Does Lionel have the "rights" on everything connected with old flyer?---Is > >>this still the case 35 years later? Chat says so, but I just want to hear > >>it? Does it include all of the old equipment including track? Or what > >does > >>it include? Can anyone just go ahead and produce look-a-like flyer stuff > >or > >>what? Just curious. Or is it simply the name itself? Johnson Roadbed > >seems > >>to be a dead-on dup for old roadbed so that confuses this guy. With 600+ > >>electron members, this group should be able to manage a coup to revive > >flyer > >>on a big scale---S that is. If we can't get a cheaper S product into > >>production for youth, S could die with the old guys. Given the state of > >>manufacture in the U.S., The new Flyer could be called Eastern Flyer--that > >>would avoid the name problem anyway. > >> > >> > >>John R > >> > >>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 20 > Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 00:49:25 -0000 > From: loubaldi@... > Subject: 650 Passenger Car Repairs > > I have three 650 Passenger Cars that the bosses have crack and broken > apart. There is no longer enough boss left to insert the pins that > hold the die-cast floor frame to the shell. About a year ago in CTT > I read about making this kind of a repair to a Lionel box car using > masking tape to make a mold and filling it with epoxy glue to create > a new boss to drill. I have talk to some AF guys who say stay away > from using epoxies to repair these bakelite cars as the glue has a > tendency to shrink with time and could cause the shells to crack. > Has anyone made this type of repair to AF Passenger cars with > success? Is there other options or methods of repairs that could be > used? Any advise or tips will be greatly apperciated. These shells > are in excellent condition other than the broken bosses. I hate to > destroy them in the process of trying to make this repair. > Thanks, > Lou > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 21 > Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2001 21:23:07 -0400 > From: "W. Thomas Boussum" <euler@...> > Subject: Ideal Model Cars. > > Harry and other S-Gaugers, > I happen to have purchased the entire two sets of Ideal car > models during the late 50s. They made two lines: a "modern" and an > "antique" set. The modern series included the GM-Buick prototype > LeSabre from the early 50s a Curtiss type Indy car of the time, and a > 1955 Thunderbird, along with several others. The antique set included a > center door Model T from the mid-20s, an old Packard (1903 I beleive), a > Stanley Steamer, and the Stutz Bearcat from the teens, among others. > They sold in about 1957 or 1960 for the price of two for $0.25 > and were fairly well scaled models of their intended prototypes. I > believe that they scale out to approximately 1:72, or a bit small for S > and a bit large for HO. I have, however, used them on layouts in both > gauges, and they do look nice, as long as you do not get them too close > to the trains. > Unfortunately, after a couple of moves most of these cars have > disappeared, along with some rather nice F&F Mold and Die Works 1955 > Fords that were Post cereal handouts during the early to mid fifties > that were very close to S scale. One of these Crown Victorias is very > close to the American Chrome version of the Crown Victoria. It's a > shame that I lost these cars, but that is the cost of moving. > Ah, those good old models... > W. Thomas Boussum > > "If you want to bake an apple pie from scratch, you must start by > creating the universe." Carl Sagan in "Cosmos" > > Message: 13 > Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 18:54:38 -0500 > From: "hgbutler" <hgbutler@...> > Subject: Ideal Plastic Automobile Kits > > Today I saw an older double kit made by Ideal Plastics for a Stutz > roadster > and a Model T (touring car, I believe it said), part of a line of 8, I > think. They looked somewhat oversize for S, but I didn't have anything > available for comparison. Does anyone know the approximate scale(s) of > these > kits? If not, can anyone point me to a source of dimensions for the > abovementioned cars? > > Thanks, > > Harry Butler > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 22 > Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2001 20:11:03 -0600 > From: "Roger V. Petrella Jr." <rogerpjr@...> > Subject: AF Baldwin armatures > > Does anyone have a couple of AF Baldwin armatures they can part with? > Don't care if windings are bad, but commutators must be good. > > Roger Petrella > Franktown, CO > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 23 > Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 03:42:09 -0000 > From: eighthmile@... > Subject: Re: Digest Number 966 > > Scott wrote: > > >Along with the steamers, I'd really love to have some current Diesel > >engines. Plastic is fine. I'd love to have a couple of Norfolk > Southern Dash > >9s like I get to see out here in Virginia. UP, CSX, and Canadian > Pacific > >would be swell too !! > > Yeah! Go SCOTT!! Santa Fe, BN, and BNSF have a few fans as well. > > >I too have a hammer and a prybar to make make those > >long, sleek, bad boys run on my layout. LOL. > > If one of these mfgrs put their mind to it, they could come up with a > Dash 9 that would do Flyer curves. Shoot, if O gaugers can do scale > length E-units that make 15.5" radius curves, S can do a scale length > Dash 9 that will make 19" radius curves. It might, I say MIGHT take > moving pilots, but if it did, provisions could be made for an > alternate frame mount of the pilots for folks with wider curves. > > >we now return you to your regularly scheduled program......... > > Yep, back to the '50s... > > Scott, are you getting as antsy for that AM SD60 as I'm getting? > > Chuck F. > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 24 > Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 23:40:47 -0400 > From: "hgbutler" <hgbutler@...> > Subject: Re: Ideal Plastic Automobile Kits > > Thanks, John, that gives me something to work with. -- I've seen a few > Glencoe models (a 1/59th scale early Packard and some 1/90th scale > wagons/stage coaches/or the like), and I wondered if they were reissues, > since the scales were so odd. Glencoe does still exist: > http://www.glencoemodels.com, and I think I saw some WWI planes listed on > their site (though I didn't check availability. > > On another note, of interest to some, I suspect, is a resin kit for a > Cadillac hearse in 1/64th scale that I spotted on e-bay this evening: > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=575337451. No maker > is listed. > > Harry > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "eddie rickenbacker" <druvnik@...> > To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 10:34 AM > Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Ideal Plastic Automobile Kits > > > > > The ITC (Ideal Toy Corp) cars were somewhere around > > 1/55-1/60 scale. others i recall were an MG-TD/Jag > > XK-120, Ferrari Barchetta/55 T-Bird (the T has an ugly > > solid plastic windscreen) so that keaves 2 I can't > > recall. Glencoe Models was reissuing the ITC line for > > the last 10 years-there was a two pack of a diamond > > stack 4-2-0 and a cabbage stack(i think) Mogul, of > > which the little guy did get reissued. Glencoe did > > start reissuing the Aurora WW1 aircraft, and > > apparently died because I haven't seen the (promised > > for) 8 Aurora kits for spring 1999-double drat!!!! > > scour the hobby shops-i scored the diamond stack loco > > and the ferrari at the previously mentioned Branford > > Hobbies.-john marganski > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 25 > Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 00:37:52 -0400 > From: Nick and Becky Colleran <colleran@...> > Subject: Gilbert trademark > > I decided to check the Lionel - Gilbert trademark on the net. They > registered "Gilbert" for toy trains and parts in 1998. The new owners > must have caught this and moved to secure the rights. If you want > to see it click: > > http://www.marksonline.com/app/tmsearch/find_mark?tok=gilbert&submit=Search > > Too bad someone else did not do this sooner. Of course, many suppliers > have used the Gilbert name in the intervening 30 years. However, I doubt > that anyone has the cash or inclination to question their newly claimed > ownership of the name. > > --- Nick Colleran > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12566	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/2/2001
Subject: Re: Repair of AF Commutators

Bruce, I wish the problem was as simple as doubled brush springs. The large motor commutators wear much faster than the others. Some have said it is because of softer material, but I suspect it's the same material, just a heavier electrical load. However, if you have figured out a way to put new surfaces on old commutators, that's a great service! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12567	From: colin_olsen@hotmail.com	Date: 4/2/2001
Subject: AF 320AC

This is my 2nd posting on this engine. Thanks to all that responded with suggestions. All suggestions were applied but to no avail. The problem: Engine will go forward, but not reverse, takes several power offs to get it to go forward. Drum in e-unit sequenses like it is supposed to, all fingers are making contact, unit has been cleaned, rewired, shows continuity through the jack panel. Armature, etc, cleaned, washered to take up slack, wiring looks ok throughout engine. When power is applied for the reverse sequence, armature attempts to turn but stops, headlight doesnot light up, works & runs fine for forward motion. Attached a second tender from a working AF302 and then suspect engine would only run in reverse and not forward. Is this an armature problem or winding problem now? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12568	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 4/2/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re Snow white and the seven dwarfs

Someone on this list clicked on an icon below the following note... From: Hahaha [hahaha@...] Subject: Snowhite and the Seven Dwarfs - The REAL story! Body: Today, Snowhite was turning 18. The 7 Dwarfs always where very educated and polite with Snowhite. When they go out work at mornign, they promissed a *huge* surprise. Snowhite was anxious. Suddlently, the door open, and the Seven Dwarfs enter... That icon was a virus that infected their PC and is sending out the virus the the rest of us. If you are this unfortunate person, please visit http://vil.mcafee.com/dispVirus.asp?virus_k=98873& or seek professional help. In the mean while, if you get a note that offers naughty pictures, or any thing for that matter, don't click, even if it is from a friend. In that case I would send them a note and ask if they in fact sent something. GET VIRUS PROTECTION! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12569	From: Jim Hannawald	Date: 4/2/2001
Subject: Re: AF 320AC

I had the same problem with a 302 and it turned out be the fifth wire will have to dig the engine out and try to remeber what I did . Got information from posts on this list. Jim Hannawald ----- Original Message ----- From: <colin_olsen@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 12:29 PM Subject: [S-Trains] AF 320AC > This is my 2nd posting on this engine. Thanks to all that responded > with suggestions. All suggestions were applied but to no avail. The > problem: Engine will go forward, but not reverse, takes several power > offs to get it to go forward. Drum in e-unit sequenses like it is > supposed to, all fingers are making contact, unit has been cleaned, > rewired, shows continuity through the jack panel. Armature, etc, > cleaned, washered to take up slack, wiring looks ok throughout > engine. When power is applied for the reverse sequence, armature > attempts to turn but stops, headlight doesnot light up, works & runs > fine for forward motion. > > Attached a second tender from a working AF302 and then suspect engine > would only run in reverse and not forward. Is this an armature > problem or winding problem now? Any thoughts would be greatly > appreciated. Thanks. > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12570	From: Scott Holm	Date: 4/2/2001
Subject: Re: AF 302AC

It sounds like there is a wiring problem in the engine that is putting the headlight and possibly the smoke unit in series with the engine when in reverse on the one tender and in forward on the other. This leaves not enough power for both the engine and the light bulb. If this had the 4 wire jack panel, reversing the plug would be the first thing to try, otherwise rewiring is in order. --- colin_olsen@... wrote: > This is my 2nd posting on this engine. Thanks to all that responded > with suggestions. All suggestions were applied but to no avail. The > problem: Engine will go forward, but not reverse, takes several power > > offs to get it to go forward. Drum in e-unit sequenses like it is > supposed to, all fingers are making contact, unit has been cleaned, > rewired, shows continuity through the jack panel. Armature, etc, > cleaned, washered to take up slack, wiring looks ok throughout > engine. When power is applied for the reverse sequence, armature > attempts to turn but stops, headlight doesnot light up, works & runs > fine for forward motion. > > Attached a second tender from a working AF302 and then suspect engine > > would only run in reverse and not forward. Is this an armature > problem or winding problem now? Any thoughts would be greatly > appreciated. Thanks. > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12571	From: Bill	Date: 4/2/2001
Subject: Brass Rolling Stock

Hi All, I have not posted here much. I have read the follow up messages to my B & O EM-1 announcement. I did not expect a flood of interest, however every engine sold helps the project. Hirail versions have pushed some brass projects over the top so they can be produced. What we are dealing with here is a different type of collecting. For instance: I have 2 of the Omnican PRR L-1. There was 45 of them made in the mid 1980s. They were $600.00 new. Current selling prices are in excess of $1300.00 if you can FIND one. The real advantage here is I get to run and enjoy them and still have the value appreciate. Your most collectable A F would probably never see active use. I also have 3 PRR E-8 diesels where there was 18 of the PRR version made. You are not going to get much more limited in production then that. The manufacturing process CREATES collectors items. There is not one piece os "S" Scale brass that is worth less that the original price offered when new. They always appreciate in value. Another advantage is if you are wanting something that is not available, you can do the research and have it made to your specifications as I have done. www.pennsysmodels.com I am also pretty certain that there are some of the A F passenger sets that are worth well over $3000.00, so it would appear that that amount spent on trains is not an issue. Hopefully this little blurb gave you some insight into "the other side on the "S" tracks" Thanks Bill

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12572	From: Peck	Date: 4/2/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 965

<<One finger of the reverse unit is not making connection. Many repro fingers are a fraction too long and sometimes cause this problem. >> True...but not ALL of them!!!!! Depends whose you buy! Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12573	From: Peck	Date: 4/2/2001
Subject: Re: MTH

<<> Along with the subject of the repro sawmill and loader. I read on > this list some time back that there were many MTH items that > were "close enough" to S scale to not look out of place on an > AF/Sgauge layout. I even got the idea that some items were in fact > 1/64. >> Many of the MTH accessories are in fact 1/60 scale....can't get too much closer than that! We carry several of the MTH accessories for that reason....even some that aren't AF-reproductions! On a related note, it has already been mentioned that the 785 Coal loaders have begun to arrive, and they are near-perfect AF reproductions, right down to the control button. Ours have arrived, and I am relieved to be able to say that we were not "allocated".....we received our entire order. MTH has a reputation for allocation, so I was concerned that we might not get them all! Thank you, MTH----now all our customer pre-orders will be filled! Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12574	From: Peck	Date: 4/2/2001
Subject: Re: Dept 56

<<Has anyone ever thought about approaching the "Dept '56" line of Christmas village people about using S scale trains with their basically 1/64th size buildings?>> There is a retail store within 5 miles of us that deals very heavily in Dept 56 product. They have a year-round display in their front window, facing the street. About 5-6 years ago, I sold them an Am Flyer set (Sorry.....I know that sends palpitations through the pacemakers of you "scalers"!!! <g> ) to incorporate into their window display. For some SIX years, that S equipment has been operating almost daily in-and-amongst the D-56 city landscape! And the owners are delighted with it! Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12575	From: pieter_roos@yahoo.com	Date: 4/2/2001
Subject: Re: Dept 56

Doug; A key question, have they sent anyone your way in search of similar equipment? Pieter --- In S-Trains@y..., "Peck" <portlines@m...> wrote: > <<Has anyone ever thought about approaching the "Dept '56" line of Christmas > village people about using S scale trains with their basically 1/64th size > buildings?>> > > There is a retail store within 5 miles of us that deals very heavily in Dept > 56 product. They have a year-round display in their front window, facing the > street. About 5-6 years ago, I sold them an Am Flyer set (Sorry.....I know > that sends palpitations through the pacemakers of you "scalers"!!! <g> ) to > incorporate into their window display. For some SIX years, that S equipment > has been operating almost daily in-and-amongst the D-56 city landscape! > And the owners are delighted with it! > > Doug Peck > Port Lines Hobby Supplies > 6 Storeybrooke Drive > Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 > Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST > 978-465-8798 > 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). > http://www.portlines.com > portlines@m...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12576	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 4/2/2001
Subject: DEPT 56

I was invited to set up a display with Dept. 56 at Desconso Gardens here in La Canada / Flintridge At xmas time....I do not have the expertise( or spelling ability) for such an undertaking....For you that don't know of this Garden, it is very close to the Rose Bowl and would be a great place to show off "S" / Flyer to many people... If someone has the time & energy and know how to pull this off contact me and I'll see if the offer still stands ...All that is needed is the trains they supply the Dept 56....Now that this has come up again in my fading memory I may ask a Division of TTOS....Anyway I know the people if someone has the ambition.....Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12577	From: belairchevy@webtv.net	Date: 4/2/2001
Subject: Trademarks (Gilbert)

Went to the Gilbert trademark site and also looked up All Aboard (scenic panels), pikemaster, auto-rama (slot cars) and erector. The only one that shows up is erector, now registered to S.A. MECCANO, originally registered in 1915 to MYSTO MFG. CO. of New Haven. All Aboard shows up for items other than trains. Does anyone have any idea how much of the original Gilbert tooling Lionel actually has? I have been told that some of it may have been destroyed several years ago. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12578	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 4/2/2001
Subject: Re: DEPT 56

Thank You Don, I'll keep that in mind.....It is just to big a project for me....Maybe a club will come forward...When I was offered the chance to do thgis I was not a member of TTOS but now I am ....It is nice to see that at all of their local (Glendale Ca) shows all that is being run is a very large Flyer layout...It has 3 rather large loops....By the way alot of your cars are run there ....I'd say that they think a lot like me ...I prefer to keep my Flyer Engines(343, 342 &a newly picked up 336) running with the rolling stock being new SHS....It's odd to see that amongst all the "O" fans there, but a great place to be when they auction off all that "Flyer" junk ....Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12579	From: Thomas EE Hillery	Date: 4/2/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 967

Just to comment re: switches; I bought a S Helper right hand manual switch at a show last week to see how it mated with a loop of AF track with SHS track. It seems very lightly built : the molded throw lever broke off when I touched it and after a weeks use the frog will not stay tight against the track in the straight position breaking electric contact. I will have to open it up and tweak it but it seems only friction holds the moving section in position on the manual and that loosens after some use . Maybe I'll try a powered switch but tight now I am sticking with some old #720 manuals that work fine --Tom Hillery

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12580	From: Thomas EE Hillery	Date: 4/2/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 967

Just to comment re: switches; I bought a S Helper right hand manual switch at a show last week to see how it mated with a loop of AF track with SHS track. It seems very lightly built : the molded throw lever broke off when I touched it and after a weeks use the frog will not stay tight against the track in the straight position breaking electric contact. I will have to open it up and tweak it but it seems only friction holds the moving section in position on the manual and that loosens after some use . Maybe I'll try a powered switch but tight now I am sticking with some old #720 manuals that work fine --Tom Hillery

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12581	From: Thomas EE Hillery	Date: 4/2/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 967

Just to comment re: switches; I bought a S Helper right hand manual switch at a show last week to see how it mated with a loop of AF track with SHS track. It seems very lightly built : the molded throw lever broke off when I touched it and after a weeks use the frog will not stay tight against the track in the straight position breaking electric contact. I will have to open it up and tweak it but it seems only friction holds the moving section in position on the manual and that loosens after some use . Maybe I'll try a powered switch but tight now I am sticking with some old #720 manuals that work fine --Tom Hillery

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12582	From: Thomas EE Hillery	Date: 4/2/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 967

Just to comment re: switches; I bought a S Helper right hand manual switch at a show last week to see how it mated with a loop of AF track with SHS track. It seems very lightly built : the molded throw lever broke off when I touched it and after a weeks use the frog will not stay tight against the track in the straight position breaking electric contact. I will have to open it up and tweak it but it seems only friction holds the moving section in position on the manual and that loosens after some use . Maybe I'll try a powered switch but tight now I am sticking with some old #720 manuals that work fine --Tom Hillery

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12583	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 4/2/2001
Subject: SMOKE UNITS

Anyone have old non working smoke units they want to get rid of cheap Or working ones.... Contact me off list....Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12584	From: Ted R Larson	Date: 4/2/2001
Subject: Winross

WINROSS is BACK! The March 16 issue of the Rochester NY paper announces that Winross has been purchased and that manufacturing operations of die-cast trucks began anew on March 15. Ted Larson Duh! I just found a PHOTO-COPY button in my scanner software! ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12585	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 4/3/2001
Subject: AF 302AC

- Greeting`S' - Colin Olsen has asked a good question and has included some tell-tale observations. Since the locomotive runs well in forward with one tender and well in reverse with a different tender, eith the locomotive is miswired or both tenders are miswired. Since the second tender works well with another AF 302, it is reasonable to conclude the locomotive is miswired to the connector under the cab roof. As it is early, I have not been wrong too many times today, so here goes. Since in teh back-up position, the armature is pulled only enough to align the slots with the field, there is current in the field, but not the armature. In locos without the "5th" wire, the headlight is usually wired across the brushes. That the headlight is off when in bak-up mode is another sign that there is no current in the armature. If the first tender works well with the second 302, then the best bet is to wire the recalcitrant 302AC at its under-cab-roof connector to be just like the second, working-well 302. Incidentally, do not try reverse too long. You will find that the field is getting hot. Had the headlight been wired to the armature and had glowed weakly, there wuld have been current thru the armature and none thru the field coil. In this case the armature would get hot instead of running in reverse. Hope this helps. Cheer`S' Rhett

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12586	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 4/3/2001
Subject: eBay question. Am I being a pain?

Ok, here is the story... I bid on an item of American Flyer rolling stock on eBay and won, then sent the seller a money order. The next week I see the same item for sale on eBay again, by the same seller, with the same exact picture. Both auctioned items have text stating that the item is grade E. Although the seller is someone I have dealt with in the past and have some trust in, I still have a huge problem with this. First, whenever I bid on an item eBay I assume that the picture is of the actual item I am bidding on. I study the item's picture in great detail, often blowing the picture up in a photo program to examine various details before I bid. The old saying that "a picture is worth a thousand words" applies here... Now the seller's email response says that although he understands my concern, that in this case the items all look the same because they are grades the same, so to taking different pictures is foolish. Well, in my opinion, since the items are E and say not LN, there definately are differences in the item (a piece of rolling stock), or the item would have been graded at least LN and not E. If you are selling brand new items there is no problem using one picture to represent multiple items, but as soon as the item is NOT new, than the picture on eBay should be of the actual item, at least that is my position. So, am I being a pain and should chill out, or what?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12587	From: Dnnis A Troini	Date: 4/3/2001
Subject: Re: eBay question. Am I being a pain?

I think the end result of such a comment will be NO photos. Having trouble with eBay and their standard answers. Seller took payment, did not ship because he later (after sale) advised me that condition was not as described (it somehow became very rusty overnight) but expected me to accept it because it was "Such a good price". Thought this was bait and switch. Asked for my money order back. He kept it, cashed it and gave me very negative feedback while I was trying to resolve it. Needless to say, EBAY HAS BEEN NO HELP. I am trying to find trustworthy dealers in this forum. A picture may be worth a thousand words, But they may all be lies. On Tue, 03 Apr 2001 12:40:53 -0400 Chuck Harrington <myflyertrains@...> writes: > Ok, here is the story... > > I bid on an item of American Flyer rolling stock on eBay and won, > then > sent the seller a money order. The next week I see the same item > for > sale on eBay again, by the same seller, with the same exact picture. > Both auctioned items have text stating that the item is grade E. > > Although the seller is someone I have dealt with in the past and > have > some trust in, I still have a huge problem with this. First, > whenever I > bid on an item eBay I assume that the picture is of the actual item > I am > bidding on. I study the item's picture in great detail, often > blowing > the picture up in a photo program to examine various details before > I > bid. The old saying that "a picture is worth a thousand words" > applies > here... > > Now the seller's email response says that although he understands my > concern, that in this case the items all look the same because they > are > grades the same, so to taking different pictures is foolish. Well, > in my > opinion, since the items are E and say not LN, there definately are > differences in the item (a piece of rolling stock), or the item > would > have been graded at least LN and not E. If you are selling brand new > items there is no problem using one picture to represent multiple > items, > but as soon as the item is NOT new, than the picture on eBay should > be > of the actual item, at least that is my position. > > So, am I being a pain and should chill out, or what? > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12588	From: Bill Porter	Date: 4/3/2001
Subject: Re: eBay question. Am I being a pain?

Hi Chuck and Esteemed Fellow List Members, This looks like a request for an opinion. Mine is as follows. If you are satisfied with your engine when it arrives, then do chill out. I suspect your hobby has more to do with American Flyer trains than with being an 'Auction Cop', so, don't borrow trouble. If you do not like your purchase and find that it was misrepresented, then, let the seller know. Next try eBay and let us all know about it. Right now, there seems to be 'no harm, no foul'. In my case, I try to avoid extra opportunities to raise my blood pressure. There seem to be amply many of them in my own back yard. So, maybe you can let us know how this sale works out for you. Good or bad, it would be a change to hear a little follow up when the dust settles. Later, Bill Porter -----Original Message----- From: Chuck Harrington <myflyertrains@...> To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Date: Tuesday, April 03, 2001 12:41 PM Subject: [S-Trains] eBay question. Am I being a pain? >Ok, here is the story... > >I bid on an item of American Flyer rolling stock on eBay and won, then >sent the seller a money order. The next week I see the same item for >sale on eBay again, by the same seller, with the same exact picture. >Both auctioned items have text stating that the item is grade E. > >Although the seller is someone I have dealt with in the past and have >some trust in, I still have a huge problem with this. First, whenever I >bid on an item eBay I assume that the picture is of the actual item I am >bidding on. I study the item's picture in great detail, often blowing >the picture up in a photo program to examine various details before I >bid. The old saying that "a picture is worth a thousand words" applies >here... > >Now the seller's email response says that although he understands my >concern, that in this case the items all look the same because they are >grades the same, so to taking different pictures is foolish. Well, in my >opinion, since the items are E and say not LN, there definately are >differences in the item (a piece of rolling stock), or the item would >have been graded at least LN and not E. If you are selling brand new >items there is no problem using one picture to represent multiple items, >but as soon as the item is NOT new, than the picture on eBay should be >of the actual item, at least that is my position. > >So, am I being a pain and should chill out, or what? > > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12589	From: Rick Evans	Date: 4/3/2001
Subject: Re: eBay question. Am I being a pain?

Dnnis A Troini wrote: . ***(((Seller took payment, did not ship because he later (after sale) advised me that condition was not as described (it somehow became very rusty overnight) but expected me to accept it because it was "Such a good price". Thought this was bait and switch. Asked for my money order back. He kept it, cashed it and gave me very negative feedback while I was trying to resolve it. Needless to say, EBAY HAS BEEN NO HELP.)))*** Just curious,....did the seller ever send the item?? Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12590	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 4/3/2001
Subject: Re: eBay question. Am I being a pain?

I expect that the piece will be fine. I have dealt with this seller before on and off of eBay. I think what I find unsettling, is the fact that auction pictures may often not be actually of the piece that is being sold. I usually take it for granted that the picture being shown actually is of the item being sold, and not one of a similar item. Bill Porter wrote: > If you are satisfied with your engine when it arrives, then do chill out. I > suspect your hobby has more to do with American Flyer trains than with being > an 'Auction Cop', so, don't borrow trouble.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12591	From: Dnnis A Troini	Date: 4/3/2001
Subject: Re: eBay question. Am I being a pain?

SELLER NEVER SENT ITEM> eBay will not intervene. Must take this to Postal Inspectors. On Tue, 03 Apr 2001 17:35:14 -0000 "Rick Evans" <comic@...> writes: > Dnnis A Troini wrote: > . ***(((Seller took payment, did not ship because he later (after > sale) advised me that condition was not as described (it somehow > became very rusty overnight) but expected me to accept it because it > > was "Such a good price". Thought this was bait and switch. Asked > for > my money order back. He kept it, cashed it and gave me very > negative > feedback while I was trying to resolve it. Needless to say, EBAY > HAS > BEEN NO HELP.)))*** > > Just curious,....did the seller ever send the item?? > > Rick. > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12592	From: Richard Cataldi	Date: 4/3/2001
Subject: Bill Banta's recent message on promoting S

I'd like to second Bill Banta's "proposal" that promotion must include articles in the general press. I have a few things to add to Bill's epistle: First, the most likely to be accepted articles will be of general interest. Construction techniques, building a railroad, the kinds of articles that the publication carries. There is nothing wrong with S being secondary to the article. As a matter of fact, the "Gee Whiz!, It's S Gauge!" type of article isn't going to be printed more often that maybe once every 4 years in Model Railroader, if that often. They want more general stuff. The fact that you are modeling in S and still have lots of things to offer to people in other scales is what they want. Don't send the same article to more than one publication. If the publisher declines to use your article, you can then send it to another publisher. (Enclose SSAE to get it back, otherwise kiss it goodbye.) By the way, if your article isn't accepted, you should ask (politely!!!) what you should do differently. They may give you some useful pointers. Usually, it just turns out that MR (or whomever) has 15 articles on sandhouses in the pipeline and they'll need 5 years to publish them all. While MR has the largest market and hits more newcomers than anyone else, there are other good places to get published. RMC for one. Not all of your articles should be for beginners. The more sophisticated modelers read some other publications that you probably read too. Those publications usually have very few articles in the pipeline and are apt to be eager to publish your article. You gotta write well. Model publications don't do much rewrite. If you write poorly or if your pictures are lousy, forget it. Clubs and perhaps this S group can provide some editing or co-authoring. If you are thin-skinned, don't bother. I've written scores of articles, technical papers, technical reports, etc., in my time and they've all been changed a lot of editors-reviewers. In every case, the result was a big improvement. And I'm considered in some circles to be a good writer. If you aren't a really super model photographer, find someone who is to do the picture taking. When did you last see an amaturish picture in Model Railroader? The pictures usually "sell" the article. If you are a great photographer, take and send pictures with informative captions to the publications. Again, don't send the same picture to more than one publisher. You'd be surprised how many articles are "requested" by the publishers after they see really interesting and high quality pictures. If you aren't the master photographer on your block, get the master to take pictures of your trains and send the pictures around. Credit him/her and give any payments to the photographer. MR and some other publishers will completely redo any drawings that accompany your article, but you've got to give them something to work with. It's gotta be accurate as far as it goes. It turns out that MR has a large staff and regular contributing authors. It takes a very well done story on a topic that MR hasn't published (at least lately) for an unknown author to get into that mag. The other publications are MUCH hungrier. When an article or picture is paid for by a publication, they will claim copyright. If you want to retain copyright to pictures, you've got to have a prior agreement with the publisher before you accept payment. In case you don't know, copyright means that even the author cannot publish the article or picture anywhere else without the express written consent of the copyright holder. Hope that these ramblings help some. We can only promote S by putting it in front of people at shows and in publications. Dick Cataldi [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12593	From: David	Date: 4/3/2001
Subject: Re: eBay question. Am I being a pain?

Chuck you have a valid point, and I agree, the item pictured "Should" be the actual item you will be bidding on, and receive. E-bay hawks these auction transactions as "binding contracts". So, to have a valid contract to begin with, the buyer would have to be presented with a product and an asking price. You are "Negotiating" this deal by bidding, IE: The Bid Price you make is based on what you can see and find out about the item your interested in purchasing. Your decision is based soley on the information presented, be it a photo, a detailed description, or both. The seller has a duty to represent the actual item honestly, and with as much detail as they possibly can. If you base your decision to bid, buy, or pass on that photo, and its a false photo that you were not aware that it was a false photo, or false representation of the goods offered, you have no binding contract, and have legal recourse in the event you suffer a loss. If you wanted to get radical, its actually fraud thru misrepresentation. You have a right to see the actual item you are buying or be advised ahead of time that the photo you are viewing is not of the actual item ofered.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12594	From: SMITTY@tir.com	Date: 4/3/2001
Subject: eBay pain

Chuck..........I guess it depends on how far you want to pursue the thing. Obviously you've had no satisfaction with either eBay or the seller. Pursuing it to the bitter end may of may not give you the results you want. You do have every right to be cheesed with the guy and with eBay. Although eBay has the "caveat emptor" disclaimer ( along with others )at the bottom of the pages, they should be more agressive in watching the sellers in cases like these. I don't know if this case constitutes mail fraud, perhaps the spector of a postal investigation will get your deadbeat seller to come through, though that's probably just wishfull thinking. Is the second auction a "re-list", or just a second auction ? If it's a re-list, as I understand it, eBay will allow the re-list and not charge for the first auction's fee (the one based on the final selling price ). Or at least reimburse that fee in your monthly statement. If he is posting the second piece as a re-list, then he's also cheating eBay out of their commision which might make them more interested in your particular case. Your case isn't unique. I had a simliar experience with a seller who re-listed an auction to sell a second, similar item. Immediately after I'd won the auction, ( the first listing ) he offered the second piece to me, and I declined. He then turned around and re- listed the piece I'd bid on, it wasn't a "new" auction it was a "re- list", same text, same picture. I didn't think much of it until I got my item, which was less than as described and I wrote asking for a reduction in what I'd paid. The flaw, very obvious, had not shown up in three pics he'd posted. His return letter was less than curteous, in fact it was rather nasty. I was offered a refund of bid, but I'd have lost out on the shipping both ways which was about what I asking for in a reduction. Had I had my wits about me I'd have brought the fraud relative to eBay loosing their commision to their attention. What I did do was contact the high bidder on the re-listed auction advising them of what was happening, the pics listed with the auction disappeared the next night. The only satisfaction I got out of it was that I got him really p.o.'ed and hopefully ruined his day, and, that the second auction's bidder had some fair warning as to what they could possibly expect with the guy. The flaw was able to be fixed with a little time and brake fluid, so what I ended up with, eventually, was a nice piece, just not as I had had expected it to come. You win some, and unfortunately, you lose some, just hard to take when it's on the same item! Regard"S", Smitty

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12595	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 4/3/2001
Subject: 322 DC

Question: Will a locomotive with the DC designation run unaltered with a standard AF transformer (18B)? What are the operating differences, particularly, how do you reverse direction? Thanks, Tom _---_---_---______--__--___+-----+||] [||####### B & O #####|______||_____ || pjpennington@... __| [][] |__ || ||_______________________/ _| B&O |___\_|| | ||| | | | | | | / | 4212 | # ||| | []|=|==================o=====o==================|=|[] /|-||(0)|=|(0)|=|(O) |_________| (0)|=|(0)|=|(O)||-|\ ======================================================== [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12596	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 4/3/2001
Subject: Re: 322 DC

If the engine is an unaltered DC it will only run on DC. The DC engines had a permanent magnet field instead of the wound one. The transformer puts out AC. DC engines ran on a "Rectiformer(DC power supply). You can have a DC source by rectifying the output of your transformer with a bridge rectifier commonly available at radio shack. With this setup all you need to reverse is a Double Pole Double Throw (DPDT) switch wired to reverse tthe polarity of the DC output from the bridge rectifier. You can mount the rectifier and DPDT switch in a $2.98 project box from radio shack and you have a DC source you can hang on any transformer. Tom Pennington wrote: > > Question: Will a locomotive with the DC designation run unaltered with a > standard AF transformer (18B)? > What are the operating differences, particularly, how do > you reverse direction? > > Thanks, Tom > > _---_---_---______--__--___+-----+||] > [||####### B & O #####|______||_____ > || pjpennington@... __| [][] |__ || > ||_______________________/ _| B&O |___\_|| > | ||| | | | | | | / | 4212 | # ||| | > []|=|==================o=====o==================|=|[] > /|-||(0)|=|(0)|=|(O) |_________| (0)|=|(0)|=|(O)||-|\ > ======================================================== > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12597	From: Peck	Date: 4/3/2001
Subject: Re: Dept 56

<<A key question, have they sent anyone your way in search of similar equipment? >> Yes, but I must admit....not a LOT! Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12598	From: donabrams	Date: 4/3/2001
Subject: Reply on MTH coal loader

I'm forwarding this from John. Don Hi, I got my unit Friday and just looked under the hood this morning. The unit is AC powered and needs about 16 volts. The motor is a DC can motor and is powered by 1/2 wave rectified DC. Why - I assume to avoid the expense and complexity of using a double pole / double throw switch (or E unit). The direction of the motor is changed by pressing either a green or red button. Each button has one diode connected to it, but in opposite polarity to change direction of the DC motor. A rubber band like belt connects the motor to a brass worm gear. The worm gear drives a plastic spur gear which is connected to the take up drum. The gears were coated with lubricant which is a nice touch. The string is like black nylon fishing line. The clam shell is operated by an AC power solenoid. It got warm to the touch after a few operations and has the familiar buzz of an A/C powered solenoid. It did not get hot, but my number of operations was limited. The wire to the clamshell is black plastic zip cord and is not real flexible (is about 22 gauge wire). My cat Archie is sitting on my lap as I am typing this, so please forgive any "cat like typing" in this reply! The coal bunker also has an A/C powered solenoid. I have not used it to load coal. It easily picked up plastic wire nuts. Operation is smooth and consistent. Areas for improvement: The lifting & lowering of the clamshell seems a little slow (although I do not know how fast the original operated) and the clam shell solenoid has the familiar AC buzz. When I get time I may add a full wave bridge rectifier to the solenoids to convert them to DC and stop the AC buzzing. This should make the solenoid run cooler due to the 1.2 volt drop in the rectifier. Speeding up the motor will be more complex. My first thoughts are to keep it as 1/2 wave rectified operation, but bump the effective (RMS) voltage up a volt or two by adding a bipolar electrolytic capacitor to smooth the waveform. Of course one should not even consider doing this until the 1 year warranty is over! Let's see that's only 363 days left! John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12599	From: Eugene Steffan	Date: 4/3/2001
Subject: Re: B & O EM-1 in S Scale

Go Baby Go! busyboy wrote: > jfred wrote: > > We can get new "scale" steam for under a grand, check BTS. They still need > a > > scale layout, but so would the brass EM-1 > > jfred: > Sure, if what you want is teeny little tea kettles from the 1920's! I'm > talking monolithic steam. When I first saw the C&O Sacred Cow steam turbine > in a rail history book I said, "Man, somebody's got to make this thing in > 'S' gauge". That was ten years ago. Last year, MTH manufactured this > monstrosity in all it's grey and yellow glory for the benefit of the "O, is > that another one for me?" crowd. And they don't care! I see it on the > shelf of Nassau Hobbies every time I go in there! There is such a glut of > big engines in "O Golly" gauge that you can actually go into a store and buy > one without having a pre-order or a reservation or a 100% deposit in advance > for three years. > > Thanks Ron Bashista for the all the affordable Pacific variations. I hope > you make all of them and their related cousins in similar wheel > arrangements, particularly all those cool streamliners. > > Thanks Bill Wade for venturing into a new venue and putting more varieties > of small steam on standard S rails. > > Thanks in advance to Don Thompson. You know there is a steamer lurking > under wraps at the S Helper plant and the happy announcement has got to come > soon. (Look at the back cover of the last SHS catalog for a sneak preview.) > > Thanks, too to Jettie Padgett and the rest of the brass engine builders. > There is probably not nearly as much profit in a 3000 dollar steamer as you > guys would like to make. > > I offer these words of gratitude to show you that I am not overlooking the > substantial contributions of those who are currently supplying us with > equipment. It's just not enough, that's all. > > Call me a greedy SOB, (S, Oh Brother) but with all we got, it just doesn't > fill the bill. We need affordable, die-cast, accurately detailed, well made > monster steamers from the last glory days of steam. This is THE biggest > hole in all our rosters. We cannot all buy in at 3 grand a pop and then end > up with scale flanges, either. Somebody, somewhere has got to build a > Hi-rail USRA 2-6-6-2 or a 4-8-8-4 Big-Boy, a Y-6b, a Class A, or a J1A. > Where are the Niagara's and Mohawks? How about a heavy Northern or a > Mountain (same as a Mohawk)? Texas style ten-wheelers, Pennsy oddball > T-1's, bring 'em on. We are hungry, deprived S-gaugers with bank accounts. > > And do us all a favor, please. Don't take any surveys to find out who has > curved tracks and straightaways that can handle the big stuff. You just > build it, we will come. I've got a prybar and a hammer. You'd be amazed at > what I can do with wood. Nobody asked the O gaugers if they had layouts big > enough for Big-Boys, so don't ask us. Watch out for the curmudgeons, too. > There is always going to be some guy who says "I don't care if you gave me a > solid gold J-3 for nuthin', cause if it wasn't built by Gilbert before 1966, > I hain't a runnin' it." There is also the perennial philosopher who > believes that the true future of S scale is in narrow gauge logging short > lines, primarily because that is what he is building. You gotta see through > the special interests and grab the biggest market. > > We Want Big Steam, or Else! > Che Zizzo > Leader of the Revolution > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12600	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 4/3/2001
Subject: Re: B & O EM-1 in S Scale

Hope Don Thompson has a Berkshire under wraps. Never done in S and great roadnames in the East. On Tue, 03 Apr 2001 22:20:37 -0400 Eugene Steffan <stefengineer@...> writes: > Go Baby Go! > > busyboy wrote: > > > jfred wrote: > > > We can get new "scale" steam for under a grand, check BTS. They > still need > > a > > > scale layout, but so would the brass EM-1 > > > > jfred: > > Sure, if what you want is teeny little tea kettles from the > 1920's! I'm > > talking monolithic steam. When I first saw the C&O Sacred Cow > steam turbine > > in a rail history book I said, "Man, somebody's got to make this > thing in > > 'S' gauge". That was ten years ago. Last year, MTH manufactured > this > > monstrosity in all it's grey and yellow glory for the benefit of > the "O, is > > that another one for me?" crowd. And they don't care! I see it > on the > > shelf of Nassau Hobbies every time I go in there! There is such a > glut of > > big engines in "O Golly" gauge that you can actually go into a > store and buy > > one without having a pre-order or a reservation or a 100% deposit > in advance > > for three years. > > > > Thanks Ron Bashista for the all the affordable Pacific variations. > I hope > > you make all of them and their related cousins in similar wheel > > arrangements, particularly all those cool streamliners. > > > > Thanks Bill Wade for venturing into a new venue and putting more > varieties > > of small steam on standard S rails. > > > > Thanks in advance to Don Thompson. You know there is a steamer > lurking > > under wraps at the S Helper plant and the happy announcement has > got to come > > soon. (Look at the back cover of the last SHS catalog for a sneak > preview.) > > > > Thanks, too to Jettie Padgett and the rest of the brass engine > builders. > > There is probably not nearly as much profit in a 3000 dollar > steamer as you > > guys would like to make. > > > > I offer these words of gratitude to show you that I am not > overlooking the > > substantial contributions of those who are currently supplying us > with > > equipment. It's just not enough, that's all. > > > > Call me a greedy SOB, (S, Oh Brother) but with all we got, it just > doesn't > > fill the bill. We need affordable, die-cast, accurately detailed, > well made > > monster steamers from the last glory days of steam. This is THE > biggest > > hole in all our rosters. We cannot all buy in at 3 grand a pop > and then end > > up with scale flanges, either. Somebody, somewhere has got to > build a > > Hi-rail USRA 2-6-6-2 or a 4-8-8-4 Big-Boy, a Y-6b, a Class A, or a > J1A. > > Where are the Niagara's and Mohawks? How about a heavy Northern > or a > > Mountain (same as a Mohawk)? Texas style ten-wheelers, Pennsy > oddball > > T-1's, bring 'em on. We are hungry, deprived S-gaugers with bank > accounts. > > > > And do us all a favor, please. Don't take any surveys to find out > who has > > curved tracks and straightaways that can handle the big stuff. > You just > > build it, we will come. I've got a prybar and a hammer. You'd be > amazed at > > what I can do with wood. Nobody asked the O gaugers if they had > layouts big > > enough for Big-Boys, so don't ask us. Watch out for the > curmudgeons, too. > > There is always going to be some guy who says "I don't care if you > gave me a > > solid gold J-3 for nuthin', cause if it wasn't built by Gilbert > before 1966, > > I hain't a runnin' it." There is also the perennial philosopher > who > > believes that the true future of S scale is in narrow gauge > logging short > > lines, primarily because that is what he is building. You gotta > see through > > the special interests and grab the biggest market. > > > > We Want Big Steam, or Else! > > Che Zizzo > > Leader of the Revolution > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12601	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 4/3/2001
Subject: Loco wishes

Reading all of the posts about the variety of steamers and diesels that the S community would like made me think of a Diesel that would be one big S gauge unit; The UP Centennial, I've seen the real thing on display in Omaha and it is BIG. Imagine that in S. Jeff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12602	From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com	Date: 4/3/2001
Subject: Re-installing AF 771 windows

Hello, All, I'm a little behind and getting caught up on several issues of the S-trains list. I just came across Tom Westhelle's question about re-installing the windows in his stockyard. I have had good luck using plain old rubber cement. Not so strong as to disolve the plastic, removable if necessary, and seems to stick quiet well. Just a little outlining the window opening, a little around the edge of the window, let dry a few moments, then stick em' together. Good Luck! Bill Trefts ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12603	From: Thomas EE Hillery	Date: 4/3/2001
Subject: Re: SHS SWITCH

Folks Sorry about the previous 4 sends, my mailer was saying it was not sending although it was. About the SHS manual switch: I was not complaining just discussing, and when I looked into it found that a small copper contact strip that contacts the "points" when bend up and and wedged seems to fix the problem. The good folks at S-Helper contacted me and offered to fix or exchange right away and that kind of service is what will keep me buying their products Tom Hillery

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12604	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 4/4/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 969

In a message dated 04/04/2001 2:07:45 AM Mountain Daylight Time, S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes: > Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 21:23:59 +0000 > From: "Dennis A. Troini" <paladindennisalexander@...> > Subject: Re: Re: B & O EM-1 in S Scale > > Hope Don Thompson has a Berkshire under wraps. Never done in S and great > roadnames in the East. > Not so Dennis, the video I sell shows a Berkshire on Jess Bennett's layout running helter skelter all over his huge S-Scale layout pulling a very long consist. Steve Blackburn RMHR [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12605	From: pieter_roos@yahoo.com	Date: 4/4/2001
Subject: Re: B & O EM-1 in S Scale

Arguably true in hi-rail/AF compatible, but in S in general. S Scale Loco and Supply had a brass kit for a berk in the 1970s-80s, and an imported brass RTR model came in and sold out last month! Still, not a bad choice for a sclae/hirail mass produced piece. Then again, there are a LOT of good choices available, so long as it isn't another Pacific! (Nothing against Pacifics, just there have been sooooo many in S). Pieter --- In S-Trains@y..., "Dennis A. Troini" <paladindennisalexander@j...> wrote: > Hope Don Thompson has a Berkshire under wraps. Never done in S and great > roadnames in the East. > On Tue, 03 Apr 2001 22:20:37 -0400 Eugene Steffan > <stefengineer@e...> writes: > > Go Baby Go! > > > > busyboy wrote: > > > > > jfred wrote: > > > > We can get new "scale" steam for under a grand, check BTS. They > > still need > > > a > > > > scale layout, but so would the brass EM-1 > > > > > > jfred: > > > Sure, if what you want is teeny little tea kettles from the > > 1920's! I'm > > > talking monolithic steam. When I first saw the C&O Sacred Cow > > steam turbine > > > in a rail history book I said, "Man, somebody's got to make this > > thing in > > > 'S' gauge". That was ten years ago. Last year, MTH manufactured > > this > > > monstrosity in all it's grey and yellow glory for the benefit of > > the "O, is > > > that another one for me?" crowd. And they don't care! I see it > > on the > > > shelf of Nassau Hobbies every time I go in there! There is such a > > glut of > > > big engines in "O Golly" gauge that you can actually go into a > > store and buy > > > one without having a pre-order or a reservation or a 100% deposit > > in advance > > > for three years. > > > > > > Thanks Ron Bashista for the all the affordable Pacific variations. > > I hope > > > you make all of them and their related cousins in similar wheel > > > arrangements, particularly all those cool streamliners. > > > > > > Thanks Bill Wade for venturing into a new venue and putting more > > varieties > > > of small steam on standard S rails. > > > > > > Thanks in advance to Don Thompson. You know there is a steamer > > lurking > > > under wraps at the S Helper plant and the happy announcement has > > got to come > > > soon. (Look at the back cover of the last SHS catalog for a sneak > > preview.) > > > > > > Thanks, too to Jettie Padgett and the rest of the brass engine > > builders. > > > There is probably not nearly as much profit in a 3000 dollar > > steamer as you > > > guys would like to make. > > > > > > I offer these words of gratitude to show you that I am not > > overlooking the > > > substantial contributions of those who are currently supplying us > > with > > > equipment. It's just not enough, that's all. > > > > > > Call me a greedy SOB, (S, Oh Brother) but with all we got, it just > > doesn't > > > fill the bill. We need affordable, die-cast, accurately detailed, > > well made > > > monster steamers from the last glory days of steam. This is THE > > biggest > > > hole in all our rosters. We cannot all buy in at 3 grand a pop > > and then end > > > up with scale flanges, either. Somebody, somewhere has got to > > build a > > > Hi-rail USRA 2-6-6-2 or a 4-8-8-4 Big-Boy, a Y-6b, a Class A, or a > > J1A. > > > Where are the Niagara's and Mohawks? How about a heavy Northern > > or a > > > Mountain (same as a Mohawk)? Texas style ten-wheelers, Pennsy > > oddball > > > T-1's, bring 'em on. We are hungry, deprived S-gaugers with bank > > accounts. > > > > > > And do us all a favor, please. Don't take any surveys to find out > > who has > > > curved tracks and straightaways that can handle the big stuff. > > You just > > > build it, we will come. I've got a prybar and a hammer. You'd be > > amazed at > > > what I can do with wood. Nobody asked the O gaugers if they had > > layouts big > > > enough for Big-Boys, so don't ask us. Watch out for the > > curmudgeons, too. > > > There is always going to be some guy who says "I don't care if you > > gave me a > > > solid gold J-3 for nuthin', cause if it wasn't built by Gilbert > > before 1966, > > > I hain't a runnin' it." There is also the perennial philosopher > > who > > > believes that the true future of S scale is in narrow gauge > > logging short > > > lines, primarily because that is what he is building. You gotta > > see through > > > the special interests and grab the biggest market. > > > > > > We Want Big Steam, or Else! > > > Che Zizzo > > > Leader of the Revolution > > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > > s-trains-unsubscribe@e... > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > > s-trains-unsubscribe@e... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12606	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 4/4/2001
Subject: B & O EM-1 in S Scale

Yes, the S Scale Loco and Supply Berkshire kit was produced in S in the '70's, and it was gorgeous. The interesting thing about it is that it was a cooperative project by modellers from all over the country who wanted big steam in S. Various craftsmen produced masters for lost wax detail castings as well as the drive mechanism components. In fact , it was possible to build just about any USRA steam locomotive. Those who had the skills taught those who didn't. Today, S gaugers are just sitting around waiting hopefully for someone to present them with fully built up big steam made in China. I lthink this says a lot about where we are today as a country and a people. First, we are too passive and too oriented toward being consumers. Second, we are not contemplating meaningful cooperative activities. i have repeatedly urged same in this forum. Third, we are devaluing our own abilities. It really isn't so difficult to make locomotives by kitbashing, scratchbuilding, improvising, and adapting. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12607	From: pieter_roos@yahoo.com	Date: 4/4/2001
Subject: Steam locos was Re: B & O EM-1 in S Scale

It is worth noting that another list on Yahoo is specifically aimed at helping/answering questions about building SSL&S and other kits. There have been posts about the new BTS kits as well, and I'm sure the NEW SSL&S kit will be covered when it is released. The down side is there are probably more un-built SSL&S kits around than finished ones, hence a mail list some 10-15 years after the kits were last available. SHS got it's start in a semi-cooperative manner (those wanting the model and paying up front got a discount AND financed much of the new product now found in S). If it worked before, there is no reason to think it will not work again. The recent CZ project doesn't mean the method is a failure unless you are POSITIVE the market for those peices existed but chose not to commit to them unless they were produced first. Pieter --- In S-Trains@y..., jarcho@r... wrote: > Yes, the S Scale Loco and Supply Berkshire kit was produced in S in the > '70's, and it was gorgeous. > > The interesting thing about it is that it was a cooperative project by > modellers from all over the country who wanted big steam in S. Various > craftsmen produced masters for lost wax detail castings as well as the > drive mechanism components. In fact , it was possible to build just about > any USRA steam locomotive. Those who had the skills taught those who > didn't. > > Today, S gaugers are just sitting around waiting hopefully for someone to > present them with fully built up big steam made in China. I lthink this > says a lot about where we are today as a country and a people. > > First, we are too passive and too oriented toward being consumers. > > Second, we are not contemplating meaningful cooperative activities. i have > repeatedly urged same in this forum. > > Third, we are devaluing our own abilities. It really isn't so difficult to > make locomotives by kitbashing, scratchbuilding, improvising, and adapting. > > > Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12608	From: Jim Carnes	Date: 4/4/2001
Subject: Jackrabbit starts

I am using Gilbert AF transformers. My Gilbert AF engines run fine. My LTI AF engines have the famous jackrabbit starts. I would like to know how the S-Helper and American Models engines behave with the starting voltages of Gilbert transformers. Also, is there any concern about circuit board burnout from the upper end voltages of the Gilbert transformers with the S-Helper or American Models engines? Jim C. ps - I'm not trying to start another long discussion on which brand is better. Just want to know if there are any problems running S-Helper or American Models engines with Gilbert transformers.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12609	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 4/4/2001
Subject: Re: Jackrabbit starts

Dear Jim, You have noticed the one of the minor problem of using the new style can motors with old ACG transformers that have a 7 volt starting voltage. New transformers start at O volts and go up slowly. But with the new diesels using electronic reverse units see 7 volts AC and take off. Regarding circuit board burnout, I can say that our SHS diesels do not have a problem with this voltage spike as we use electrical components that can handle the load. Don Thompson Jim Carnes wrote: > I am using Gilbert AF transformers. My Gilbert AF engines run fine. My > LTI AF engines have the famous jackrabbit starts. I would like to know > how the S-Helper and American Models engines behave with the starting > voltages of Gilbert transformers. Also, is there any concern about > circuit board burnout from the upper end voltages of the Gilbert > transformers with the S-Helper or American Models engines? > > Jim C. > > ps - I'm not trying to start another long discussion on which brand is > better. Just want to know if there are any problems running S-Helper or > American Models engines with Gilbert transformers. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New 2nd run reefers are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12610	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 4/4/2001
Subject: Re: B & O EM-1 in S Scale

Dear Tom, Other than the American Models Pacific, all of the steam engines in "S" that last few decades (like the wonderful Berk from River Raisin) were made in Korea, not China. Don T. jarcho@... wrote: > Yes, the S Scale Loco and Supply Berkshire kit was produced in S in the > '70's, and it was gorgeous. > > The interesting thing about it is that it was a cooperative project by > modellers from all over the country who wanted big steam in S. Various > craftsmen produced masters for lost wax detail castings as well as the > drive mechanism components. In fact , it was possible to build just about > any USRA steam locomotive. Those who had the skills taught those who > didn't. > > Today, S gaugers are just sitting around waiting hopefully for someone to > present them with fully built up big steam made in China. I lthink this > says a lot about where we are today as a country and a people. > > First, we are too passive and too oriented toward being consumers. > > Second, we are not contemplating meaningful cooperative activities. i have > repeatedly urged same in this forum. > > Third, we are devaluing our own abilities. It really isn't so difficult to > make locomotives by kitbashing, scratchbuilding, improvising, and adapting. > > Tom Jarcho > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New 2nd run reefers are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12611	From: Howell S Jobbins	Date: 4/4/2001
Subject: Re: Jackrabbit starts

Jim, After three years of almost daily "play" 1-2 hours running both a SHS SW-9, and AM FP-7's and FA-2 B units mixed with ACG Flyer locos I have not had any problems. Power supplies are 15-B's in various sections, some with the Ott Sound Controller in the loop. I think the concern is the Big Z Lionel transformers that get over the 16 volt range which might fry the circuit boards in the SHS and AM locos. On Wed, 04 Apr 2001 15:59:42 -0400 Jim Carnes <jcarnes@...> writes: > I am using Gilbert AF transformers. My Gilbert AF engines run fine. > My > LTI AF engines have the famous jackrabbit starts. I would like to > know > how the S-Helper and American Models engines behave with the > starting > voltages of Gilbert transformers. Also, is there any concern about > circuit board burnout from the upper end voltages of the Gilbert > transformers with the S-Helper or American Models engines? > > Jim C. > > ps - I'm not trying to start another long discussion on which brand > is > better. Just want to know if there are any problems running S-Helper > or > American Models engines with Gilbert transformers. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12612	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 4/4/2001
Subject: Re: Jackrabbit starts

Dear Howell, We were warned about the ZW and KW transformers, some have outputs as high as 24 volts. But, my 18B sends out 19.6 volts Howell S Jobbins wrote: > Jim, > After three years of almost daily "play" 1-2 hours running both a SHS > SW-9, and AM FP-7's and FA-2 B units mixed with ACG Flyer locos I have > not had any problems. Power supplies are 15-B's in various sections, some > with the Ott Sound Controller in the loop. I think the concern is the Big > Z Lionel transformers that get over the 16 volt range which might fry the > circuit boards in the SHS and AM locos. > > On Wed, 04 Apr 2001 15:59:42 -0400 Jim Carnes <jcarnes@...> > writes: > > I am using Gilbert AF transformers. My Gilbert AF engines run fine. > > My > > LTI AF engines have the famous jackrabbit starts. I would like to > > know > > how the S-Helper and American Models engines behave with the > > starting > > voltages of Gilbert transformers. Also, is there any concern about > > circuit board burnout from the upper end voltages of the Gilbert > > transformers with the S-Helper or American Models engines? > > > > Jim C. > > > > ps - I'm not trying to start another long discussion on which brand > > is > > better. Just want to know if there are any problems running S-Helper > > or > > American Models engines with Gilbert transformers. > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New 2nd run reefers are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12613	From: Wayne and Alice Beachy	Date: 4/4/2001
Subject: Going for a record

Hi All, The Virginia Central Division is going to have an all S benefit train show in Richmond Virginia on November 17, 2001. Proceeds from this show will be shared between a worldwide infant kits program of the Mennonite Church and our club's service program for the Children's Medical Center at Medical College of Virginia. We have contacted Guinness Records and they are considering if it can establish a record as the World's largest S Gauge Hi Rail modular layout. We also may have the longest S shaped section of track if we can get enough curve modules. Our modules are based on the BAAFC specifications so anyone wanting to participate can contact me. So far, members from all four Atlantic Coast S Gaugers divisions are planning to participate. This is way early, so I will be getting information out and on our web page as it becomes available. Wayne Beachy Atlantic Coast S Gaugers Virginia Central Division [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12614	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 4/4/2001
Subject: Re: Jackrabbit starts

An easy way to reduce this problem that our module club used is to provide a control box that includes both DC and half wave DC outputs from your AC transformer. The single diode that provides the half wave DC reduces starting voltage (speed) considerably with AM and SHS can motors. Don't know if the Lionel is AC/DC. I do know that AM and SHS sequence reverse AC units run on AC or DC. Of course, you can't use this approach if you're running DC triggered sound. Another option is a modern transformer that starts at 0 volts A third option (tongue in cheek)is to start with a long train in tow. Jim Carnes wrote: > > I am using Gilbert AF transformers. My Gilbert AF engines run fine. My > LTI AF engines have the famous jackrabbit starts. I would like to know > how the S-Helper and American Models engines behave with the starting > voltages of Gilbert transformers. Also, is there any concern about > circuit board burnout from the upper end voltages of the Gilbert > transformers with the S-Helper or American Models engines? > > Jim C. > > ps - I'm not trying to start another long discussion on which brand is > better. Just want to know if there are any problems running S-Helper or > American Models engines with Gilbert transformers. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12615	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 4/4/2001
Subject: Re: Going for a record

Dear Wayne, I think the S Mod layout at the NMRA/NASG National conventions at Pittsburgh (1990) and Valley Forge (1994) were over 400 feet long. They were not American Flyer compatible, but intended for code 110 wheelsets. Don Thompson Wayne and Alice Beachy wrote: > Hi All, > > The Virginia Central Division is going to have an all S benefit train show in Richmond Virginia on November 17, 2001. Proceeds from this show will be shared between a worldwide infant kits program of the Mennonite Church and our club's service program for the Children's Medical Center at Medical College of Virginia. We have contacted Guinness Records and they are considering if it can establish a record as the World's largest S Gauge Hi Rail modular layout. We also may have the longest S shaped section of track if we can get enough curve modules. Our modules are based on the BAAFC specifications so anyone wanting to participate can contact me. So far, members from all four Atlantic Coast S Gaugers divisions are planning to participate. > > This is way early, so I will be getting information out and on our web page as it becomes available. > > Wayne Beachy > Atlantic Coast S Gaugers > Virginia Central Division > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New 2nd run reefers are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12616	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 4/4/2001
Subject: Replacing orignal AF Trucks (and wheels)

I have been noticing more than a little difference between the trucks and wheels on two AM boxcars I have and the AF trucks and wheels on everything else. It occurs to me (not rocket science) that if I replace the AF trucks with more modern ones (materials and manufacture that is), the locomotives will be able to pull longer trains with significantly less strain. So the question is, how hard is this to do, which trucks are easiest to do this with, and can you get replacement trucks for the tenders? Thanks, Tom _---_---_---______--__--___+-----+||] [||####### B & O #####|______||_____ || pjpennington@... __| [][] |__ || ||_______________________/ _| B&O |___\_|| | ||| | | | | | | / | 4212 | # ||| | []|=|==================o=====o==================|=|[] /|-||(0)|=|(0)|=|(O) |_________| (0)|=|(0)|=|(O)||-|\ ======================================================== [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12617	From: Mike Vana	Date: 4/4/2001
Subject: Collecting S gauge (and AF)

I've been reading posts on this list for the last three months. This has turned out to be an interesting list to me. I've had AF trains ever since I can remember, My older brother had some, my Dad and my two younger brothers have some, too. I've turned out to be the AF collector and operator in the family, and I also have some S scale and hi-rail, and lots of O scale (all two rail stuff) and H-O. When I was about 12, I made a goal was to try to collect one of everything AF made in S gauge. While that's an impossible goal, I'm getting closer every year. There seem to be many operators here, which is good, because I think running the trains is a lot of the fun. Are there any collectors on this list? I was just curious if people are like me trying to collect everything, or have more specific goals. And does anyone operate or collect non-AF S gauge? Mike Vana Omaha, NE.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12618	From: Roy Inman	Date: 4/4/2001
Subject: Re: Loco wishes

Jeff, Boy, the Centennial sounds like a great choice. Mike Wolf told me and a group last year that the DD40AX they produced went so fast he did not even get one for himself!! I too saw the prototype, but at railroad days in Topeka, KS. Roy Inman ---------- >From: Jeffrey Tangeman <jt12313@...> >To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [S-Trains] Loco wishes >Date: Tue, Apr 3, 2001, 8:53 PM > > The UP Centennial,

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12619	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 4/4/2001
Subject: American Models

I bought a couple used,and abused sw-12's with a small collection of flyer.It was a shock to me that they ran at all ,I was expecting a lot less.I needed some parts to repair this stuff(Handrails),so I contacted American Models info off their website.The response I got was very prompt and helpful.My parts will be on their way soon.This is my first experience with A.M.,I am very pleased.Keith _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12620	From: loubaldi@aol.com	Date: 4/4/2001
Subject: Re: Jackrabbit starts

--- In S-Trains@y..., Jim Carnes <jcarnes@b...> wrote: Just want to know if there are any problems running S-Helper or > American Models engines with Gilbert transformers. Hi Jim, I'm operating both AM & S-Helper engines on my layout. I'm using two A.C. Gilbert transformers (30B & 15B). I haven't notice any problems with jack rabbit starts. Also, these engines come with fly wheel(s) which really smooths out their operation. I also checked the literature that came with the engines. AM will not warranty the electronics when operated at or above 20 volts. S-helper has a similar disclaimer for their engines. The SW-9 electronic warranty is voided at operation above 20 volts, while the SW-1 is voided above 21 volts. I thought it was interesting that the two S-Helper engines have a slighlty different voltage warning. Lou

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12621	From: Roy Inman	Date: 4/4/2001
Subject: Chicago S

Hi all, Making a trip to the Windy City (Chicagoland) this weekend. Anyone on the list who can suggest a good model rail shop or two, preferably S stuff? Thanks, Roy Inman

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12622	From: busyboy	Date: 4/5/2001
Subject: Re: Going for a record

Don Thompson said: >I think the S Mod layout at the NMRA/NASG National conventions at Pittsburgh (1990) >and Valley Forge (1994) were over 400 feet long. That's just 4.85 scale miles, the equivalent of a tiny mom & pop shortline serving a mainline freight service. For a big railroad, it's that little industrial branch siding that winds its way through the factory areas of a city. For us, it's a railroad with through sleeper service and ABBA diesel sets! A couple years ago, I was talking up the possibility of attempting the longest traim record. Any interest? CZ

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12623	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 4/5/2001
Subject: Re: Jackrabbit starts

Dear Lou, Progress Don loubaldi@... wrote: > --- In S-Trains@y..., Jim Carnes <jcarnes@b...> wrote: > Just want to know if there are any problems running S-Helper or > > American Models engines with Gilbert transformers. > > Hi Jim, > ......I thought it was interesting that the two S-Helper engines > have a slighlty different voltage warning. > > Lou > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New 2nd run reefers are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12624	From: Mark Preman	Date: 4/5/2001
Subject: American Flyer Trains For Sale

Tired of eBay, bunky? Can't find a decent show? Is your AF world crashing down around your ears?........ Sorry, I got carried away listening to some of the recent chatter. Only kidding! Anyway, the new list is posted and I bought some absolutely beautiful stuff in Switzerland and it was made for export by Gilbert. I was also able to feature Steve Blackburn's video on the homepage. This will take his film out of the "insiders" world and out to the public at large. Lots of new goodies and a money back guarranty. Check out the list at: http://www.americanflyertrains.com ===== Mark B. Preman AmericanFlyerTrains.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12625	From: Scott Holm	Date: 4/5/2001
Subject: Re: Chicago S

I don't have the flyer here at work, but S-gaugian/Scenery unlimited is having an open house on Saturday. There is also the midwest Gats train show on Sunday in nearby Wheaton. --- Roy Inman <rinphoto@...> wrote: > Hi all, > Making a trip to the Windy City (Chicagoland) this weekend. > Anyone on the list who can suggest a good model rail shop or two, > preferably > S stuff? > Thanks, > Roy Inman > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12626	From: Roy Plotnick	Date: 4/5/2001
Subject: Chicago S

Good timing! Scenery Unlimited (Don Heimberger) in Forest Park is having an Open House Saturday morning. Another place to go for S in the Chicago area is Des Plaines Hobbies. -Roy

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12627	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 4/5/2001
Subject: Re: Replacing orignal AF Trucks (and wheels)

You're right, you'll probably doiuble or better your hauling capacity. Ace makes bolsters to mount trucks. Don't know the address of Ace but Scenery Unlimited stocks the line, I think. See ads in S Gaugian or contact: Scenery Unlimited 7236 W. Madison St. Forest Park, IL 60130 Phone 708 366 7763 Also, if you're so inclined, you can fabricate bolsters from spruce stock, about 1/4" x 1/4", available at a hobby shop. Epoxy these in place and mount trucks with small wood screws. I've done this to several cars because I like to mount Ott sound units in small Lionel O27 boxcars which will fit the 2" speakers and are s scale except for the ladder rung width. Tom Pennington wrote: > > I have been noticing more than a little difference between the trucks and > wheels on two AM boxcars I have > and the AF trucks and wheels on everything else. It occurs to me (not > rocket science) that if I replace the > AF trucks with more modern ones (materials and manufacture that is), the > locomotives will be able to pull > longer trains with significantly less strain. So the question is, how hard > is this to do, which trucks are easiest > to do this with, and can you get replacement trucks for the > tenders? Thanks, Tom > > _---_---_---______--__--___+-----+||] > [||####### B & O #####|______||_____ > || pjpennington@... __| [][] |__ || > ||_______________________/ _| B&O |___\_|| > | ||| | | | | | | / | 4212 | # ||| | > []|=|==================o=====o==================|=|[] > /|-||(0)|=|(0)|=|(O) |_________| (0)|=|(0)|=|(O)||-|\ > ======================================================== > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12628	From: Gregg Mummert	Date: 4/5/2001
Subject: Geep Sideframes

Anyone have a pair of GEEP sideframes with KNUCKLE COUPLERS that would be interested in trading for a pair of ALCO sideframes with knuckle couplers? Please contact me off list at: gmummert@... Gregg Mummert gmummert@... S Gauge - the only way to Fly(er)!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12629	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 4/5/2001
Subject: (SIG) Special Interest Groups

Ways of finding other people that share your Special Interest(SI). 1) simple as adding your SI to your signature file (ask if you need help) 2) scheduling a chat on your favorite subject 3) making it the 'topic' of our existing Sunday night chat 4) making a small website that displays their interest in this aspect of S (add that link to your signature file) 5) contacting , offlist, others that identify them selves as having that interest and introducing yourself 6) ask the list members that you know if they share your intrest in this aspect .... 7) writing an article for dispatch, S-Trains website, etc that tells why you are excited or interested in this part of S ===== Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com Photography - Computers - Trains __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12630	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 4/5/2001
Subject: jack rabbit starts

My 1992 LTI NP diesel crawls when either my 15B or 16B are at their minimum "0" speed setting, so I can manage smooth slow starts pretty easily. Then as you apply power it lunges a bit at one point in the low range, and then smoothly increases speed from there. My AM's on the other hand, crawl at "0" and smoothly ramp up all the way from there. PS I think the key to LTI's is careful lubrication before use, even if NIB when you buy them. After all, many are already 2-18 years old in the box. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12631	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 4/5/2001
Subject: Coal loaders

I'm curious how the finished-product MTH 785 coal loader compares to an ACG unit. Last October at York I operated their prototype, then ran another prototype last month. How long does it take the ones recently shipped to lift the clamshell from tabletop to outermost end of the boom (straight up only)? The prototypes I tried took about 24 seconds. My ACG takes about 6 seconds. Then, of course, it'll be interesting to see how the Lionel model (assuming it actually gets done) compares to both of these. Thanks in advance for your help. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12632	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 4/5/2001
Subject: Re: Timonium This Weekend Great Scale Show

We will be in attendance on Saturday and Sunday with our layout and production models of most of the F-3s. We will also have a good supply of items for sale. You can also see the Potomac Valley S Gauger's S-Mod System layout in operation. Don -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New 2nd run reefers are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12633	From: J_Gasal@Compuserve.com	Date: 4/5/2001
Subject: Re: Coal loaders

I just got done timing my MTH unit. The times are: 22 seconds going up and 20 seconds going down (vertical movement only) I then estimated the scale speed for the MTH and American Flyer unit based on a 50 feet vertical movement @ S guage. The scale speeds are: MTH = 2.3 ft/second and Flyer = a reckless 8.3 feet per second! I kinda like the reckless speed! --- In S-Trains@y..., david_horn@b... wrote: > I'm curious how the finished-product MTH 785 coal loader compares to an ACG > unit. Last October at York I operated their prototype, then ran another > prototype last month. How long does it take the ones recently shipped to > lift the clamshell from tabletop to outermost end of the boom (straight up > only)? The prototypes I tried took about 24 seconds. My ACG takes about 6 > seconds. Then, of course, it'll be interesting to see how the Lionel model > (assuming it actually gets done) compares to both of these. Thanks in > advance for your help. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12634	From: Tom Stolte	Date: 4/5/2001
Subject: New Decals from Oddballs Decals - N, S, HO & O scales

625 KCS USRA composite drop bottom gondola. (4-52) Car is painted boxcar red. Set will letter 2 cars. Intermountain kit. White lettering. 626 Bunge Corp. 50' tank car. (7-98) Car is painted black. Atlas or Walthers funnel flow tank kit. Set will letter one car. White & blue lettering. 627 David J. Joseph new logos. (2000) 26 logos per set. White & green lettering. 628 Grain Terminal Assoc. 18 rib covered hopper. (3-74) Car is painted med gray. Set will letter one car. Black & red lettering. 629 UP Wings for hood units, GP 40's, GP 38's, etc. (2001) 72 inches long. 24 wings per set. White, red & blue logo. The N scale sets will letter 2 or 3 cars. S & O scale will letter 1 car. All the above decals refer to HO scale kits on the market. These will also work for other scales. Just pick a car of your choice in the other scales. Prefix numbers for N scale 60-. HO scale 87-. S scale 64-. O scale 48-. N & HO scale retail price $3.00. S & O scale retail price $6.00. These should be in your favorite hobby shop within the next month or so. If ordering direct, please include $1.75 for p&h. Up to date catalog N, HO, S & O scale, $5.00, plus $1.75 for p&h. You buy this catalog once, then every 3 months or so, send me a LSSAE for updates. Fits in a 3 ring binder. Tom Stolte - Oddballs Decals N, HO, S & O Scale Model Railroad Decals 26550 227th Street; McLouth, Kansas 66054 Phone: 913-727-6649 - oddballdecal@... Web site http://www.oddballsdecals.com/ Subscribe: OddballsDecals-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Missouri Pacific Photos Web Page: http://www.trainweb.org/mopac/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12635	From: softmoods@vcn.com	Date: 4/5/2001
Subject: July Train Show/Swap Meet

Hi All, Please pass the Notice below on to other E-Mail Lists: Sorry for the possible double posts. Sherman Hill Model Railroad Club will be hosting a Model Railroad Show / Swap meet and Afternoon of Railfanning, in Cheyenne, Wyoming. Details of show are below: Date: 14 July 01 Saturday Time: 9:00am - 12:00am Railfanning: Follows Train Show / Swap Meet and Lunch or after lunch 1:30pm Tour the Former Union Pacific Depot and The Union Pacific Steam Shops Location: 121 w 15th st - Downtown Cheyenne - Former Union Pacific Depot Admission: Adults . . . $ 3.50 Children . . $ 1.50 Families . . $ 7.00 Contact: Robert Sherwood 2837 Olive Dr Cheyenne, Wy. 82001-5736 Vendors: Contact For Booth / Table Information I'm looking forward to seeing and visiting with all of you in july. Sincerely, Robert Sherwood, President Sherman Hill Model Railroad Club, Cheyenne, Wyoming

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12636	From: The Reis's	Date: 4/5/2001
Subject: S Gauge Heralds

I finally cleaned out my S gauge heralds and separated out the last extras. These are the extras have. vol 9 2,3,4,5,6 vol 10 1.2.3.4.5.6 vol 11 1 vol 13 6 1973 1,2,3,4,5,6 1974 1,2,3,4,5,6 1975 1,2,3,4,5,6 1976 1.2.3.4.5.6 1977 1,2,3,4,5,6 43 Issues The first $35 plus postage (about $8) can have them. eric reis kenmore, wa.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12637	From: Roy Inman	Date: 4/5/2001
Subject: Chicago

Many thanks to all on the list who made suggestions as to where I can find things S in Chicago area. Now, if only I had a couple more credit cards... Kind regards, Roy Inman

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12638	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 4/6/2001
Subject: Re: Timonium Show 4/7 -4/8

Showcase Lines posted that they will be at the Timonium Show 4/7 -4/8. I assume this in Maryland. Do you think there will be much S at the show? Peter Ervin

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12639	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 4/6/2001
Subject: Re: Timonium Show 4/7 -4/8

Dear Peter, Oops! Yes, it is a bit north of Baltimore. I am not sure how much "S". We went last year and someone had a ton of brass and used AM stuff. I think it changes with each show. I know we will have our complete line of trains, the rental van is full and I will be leaving in about an hour. Don Peter Ervin wrote: > Showcase Lines posted that they will be at the Timonium Show 4/7 -4/8. I > assume this in Maryland. Do you think there will be much S at the show? > > Peter Ervin > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New 2nd run reefers are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12640	From: David A. Highfield	Date: 4/6/2001
Subject: Re: Timonium Show 4/7 -4/8

The Timonium Show is on York Road in Lutherville. Take the Timonium exit off of I-83. This is the Maryland State Fair Grounds. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Thompson" <robin@...> To: "Peter Ervin" <pjervin@...> Cc: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 9:20 AM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Re: Timonium Show 4/7 -4/8 > Dear Peter, > Oops! Yes, it is a bit north of Baltimore. I am not sure how much "S". We > went last year and someone had a ton of brass and used AM stuff. I think it > changes with each show. I know we will have our complete line of trains, the > rental van is full and I will be leaving in about an hour. > Don > > Peter Ervin wrote: > > > Showcase Lines posted that they will be at the Timonium Show 4/7 -4/8. I > > assume this in Maryland. Do you think there will be much S at the show? > > > > Peter Ervin > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > -- Don Thompson > S Helper Service Inc. > http://www.showcaseline.com > 1.800.465.0303 > New 2nd run reefers are now shipping! > http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12641	From: Richard J. Nicholls	Date: 4/6/2001
Subject: MTH Coal Loader

>I just got done timing my MTH unit. The times are: >22 seconds going up and 20 seconds going down (vertical movement only) ... I received my new 30-9043 MTH Coal Loader last night and timed its operation. It took 23 seconds going "up" and another 3 seconds going "in" before I released the load (for a total up/in time of 26 seconds). It will be an easy task to put a slightly larger diameter drive pulley on the motor shaft to increase the overall speed. (I'll try different sizes and let you know how fast it operates.) Regards, Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12642	From: Richard J. Nicholls	Date: 4/6/2001
Subject: MTH Coal Loader

... I should add that SHS track fits the indentation for roadbed in the new MTH Coal Loader perfectly. Regards, Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12643	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 4/6/2001
Subject: Lookout Junction on Display

If any S fans will be in the Boise, Idaho, area on Saturday and Sunday, April 21-22, please join the Rocky Mountain Hi-Railers as we display our layout, Lookout Junction. We'll be the featured attraction at the 76th Anniversary Celebration of the beautiful mission-style Boise Depot, which sits on a hill overlooking the Boise Valley. Many of you have seen Lookout Junction in Steve Blackburn's "S-Gauge Model Railroading in the Mountain West" video. The open house is free to the public, and will also include a small HO layout, a new 1:1 diesel switcher (and caboose) from Boise Locomotive out on the tracks, an operating speeder, old-time cars, and other railroad displays. Head north (toward the mountains) off the Airport exit of I-84, and you'll run right past the Depot. If you can make it, be sure to say hi. Info by contacting me, or at www.cityofboise.org/directories/visitboise.asp. YourS, John Eichmann, Coordinator Rocky Mountain Hi-Railers Boise, Idaho jeichmann@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12644	From: Peck	Date: 4/6/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Crown

There are a few S scale product lines that are changing hands. I'm not keeping up with all the changes, except for the ones that I can find that have webpages. Who is the current owner, address, e-mail etc. of ................. ...........How about Crown reefers? I guess I should be the one to let you know that Crown is closing their doors this summer. No more Crown production in S (or O). The previously-announced Carling Beer reefer is cancelled. It will not be made. There will be a final, SMALL, production run of Hoods, Schlitz, and PFEX reefers.....these are 2nd and 3rd runs of previous production cars. That will use up all existing unpainted shells. And that will be the end. We still have some inventory available of 3-4 roadnames.....Post Road Ale, URTX, WIF&S...... Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12645	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 4/6/2001
Subject: Re: 650 Passenger Car Repairs

loubaldi@... wrote: > I have three 650 Passenger Cars that the bosses have crack and broken > apart. There is no longer enough boss left to insert the pins that > hold the die-cast floor frame to the shell. About a year ago in CTT > I read about making this kind of a repair to a Lionel box car using > masking tape to make a mold and filling it with epoxy glue to create > a new boss to drill. I have talk to some AF guys who say stay away > from using epoxies to repair these bakelite cars as the glue has a > tendency to shrink with time and could cause the shells to crack. > Has anyone made this type of repair to AF Passenger cars with > success? Is there other options or methods of repairs that could be > used? Any advise or tips will be greatly apperciated. These shells > are in excellent condition other than the broken bosses. I hate to > destroy them in the process of trying to make this repair. > Thanks, > Lou > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ If these are big enough, find some brass rod that has an OD small enough, yet will hold a 2-56 thread. Make a plug to go into the boss, then use 2-56 bolt, and maybe a washer, from the frame. I did it with some PAs back in the 60s, worked ok then. If epoxies are an item of concern try fine-celled auto body putty.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12646	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 4/6/2001
Subject: Re: Re Snow white and the seven dwarfs

Velapoldi's wrote: > During the last few days, I have received at least 5 mailings of "Snow > White and the Seven Dwarfs" from "Hahaha". I seem to remember that our > lists said that this message included a virus so I have just deep sixed > the messages (even though I have Norton antivirus). Any knowledge of > this? Tx. > Rance Velapoldi > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ I understand it is a virus; there was a long commentary several months back about how it worked, so I have been ditching it the same. Wish they would leave us alone. It would be nice if there ws an address to which we could forward such crap which would lead to an entity that search and destroy it once and for all. DJE

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12647	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 4/6/2001
Subject: Re: Loco wishes

Roy Inman wrote: > Jeff, > Boy, the Centennial sounds like a great choice. > Mike Wolf told me and a group last year that the DD40AX they produced went > so fast he did not even get one for himself!! > I too saw the prototype, but at railroad days in Topeka, KS. > Roy Inman > > ---------- > >From: Jeffrey Tangeman <jt12313@...> > >To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com > >Subject: [S-Trains] Loco wishes > >Date: Tue, Apr 3, 2001, 8:53 PM > > > > > The UP Centennial, > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Roy, have you seen the one on Cliff Guthrie's O-hirail club layout. I'd hate to be anywhere near a curve when that beast came by, the overhangs had to be 3 inches or more!!!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12648	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 4/6/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, April 8, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12649	From: Peck	Date: 4/6/2001
Subject: Re: Changing Hands

<<I am sincerely sorry to hear that you are quitting. >> PLEASE!!!!! "I" am not quitting!!!!! Crown Models is NOT me ! I have done all of Crown's S distribution for the past 4-5 years, but Crown is its own company..... I have no other role with Crown! I played no role in their decision to fold! Port Lines goes on! Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12650	From: J_Gasal@Compuserve.com	Date: 4/6/2001
Subject: Re: MTH Coal Loader

One way to speed up the clamshell is the reconfigure the pulley system that lifts the clamshell. As designed, it has a 3 to 1 mechanical advantage and takes 22 seconds to rise. In otherwords, the string attached to the winch moves 3 times faster than the clamshell. So if the clamshell were hooked directly to the string, it would move up in 7 seconds (22/3). If configured for a 2 to 1 mechanical advantage, the speed would be about 11 seconds (22/2). >It will be an easy task to put a slightly larger > diameter drive pulley on the motor shaft to increase the overall > speed. (I'll try different sizes and let you know how fast it > operates.) > > Regards, Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12651	From: howard sheffield	Date: 4/6/2001
Subject: Re: MTH Coal Loader

What type of pressure increase would result on the motor. Wouldn't this cause more load and thereby shorten the motor life??? Howard S >One way to speed up the clamshell is the reconfigure the pulley >system that lifts the clamshell _______________________________________________________________________ Free Domain Name Registration with Web Hosting at Lanset Communications. 56k Dialup, DSL, and Colocation at http://www.lanset.net

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12652	From: M.McConnell	Date: 4/6/2001
Subject: Pictures of new products

I finally got around to uploading some pictures I took at the last Gilbertsville train show of the new AM Budd car and Trainmaster. The three pictures are all of pre-production products. The American Models Budd car is the AF Hi-Rail version, but is painted silver rather than being triple-chromed. The picture, being a rather low-resolution shot, shows moire patterns where the ribs appear on the side of the body. Trust me, the detail on the actual model is excellent. The car was at Jim Lyle's table. The Trainmaster shows a running model without the yet-to-arrive truck side frames, and the second picture shows the chassis and three possible paint schemes. The pictures can be found in the s-groups file section, in a directory called AM Budd_Trainmaster. You should find them at http://www.egroups.com/files/S-Trains/AM Budd_Trainmaster/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12653	From: M.McConnell	Date: 4/6/2001
Subject: Pictures of the SJSG-sponsered train show

The SJSG held their train show & sale last Sunday. The event went very well, and I've put some pictures up on our club's revised WEB site (notice how I smoothly worked that in??) Our WEB site can be found at http://www.trainweb.org/sjsg When you get there, click on the button for "Events". The train show is the only event I have uploaded (so far - I have a few more events to add). Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12654	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 4/7/2001
Subject: Re: Pictures of new products

"M.McConnell" wrote: > I finally got around to uploading some pictures I took at the last > Gilbertsville train show of the new AM Budd car and Trainmaster. The three > pictures are all of pre-production products. > > The American Models Budd car is the AF Hi-Rail version, but is painted > silver rather than being triple-chromed. The picture, being a rather > low-resolution shot, shows moire patterns where the ribs appear on the side > of the body. Trust me, the detail on the actual model is excellent. The car > was at Jim Lyle's table. > > The Trainmaster shows a running model without the yet-to-arrive truck side > frames, and the second picture shows the chassis and three possible paint > schemes. > > The pictures can be found in the s-groups file section, in a directory called > AM Budd_Trainmaster. You should find them at > http://www.egroups.com/files/S-Trains/AM Budd_Trainmaster/ > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Here goes the Yahoo Screw again--I could not get past their sign-in screens, and I am not sure I should have to. DE

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12655	From: J_Gasal@Compuserve.com	Date: 4/7/2001
Subject: Re: MTH Coal Loader

It would increase tension on the cable & increase the torque the motor would have to produce. Would it shorten the unit life - Not very likely. I did a test this morning & found that I could not detect an increase in the motor current draw when changing the pulley system from a 3:1 reduction to a 2:1 reduction. This was measured using both a RMS responding digital voltmeter and also an oscilloscope. Current draw was around .17 amperes which puts the motor load at about 2.5 watts. In theory, I should have seen a 50% increase in current. I suspect that the frictional losses of the motor & gears exceed the change in load caused by the change from 3:1 to 2:1 pulley reduction. I haven't decided to do this to my unit, but if I did, I would only change the unit from a 3:1 reduction to 2:1 reduction. This would take about 2 minutes to do - Disconnect the end of the string which is attached to the clamshell, and move it up and terminate it on a screw on the dolly which travels on the arm. When this is done, only 2 lines should be going down to the clamshell (instead of 3). Amount of tension increase? - Assume a 6 oz weight for the clamshell for ease of math. As delivered with a 3:1 reduction, the tension would be 2 oz on the cable. Changing to a 2:1 reduction would result in a tension of 3 oz or a 50% increase in tension. Hope this helps! John --- In S-Trains@y..., "howard sheffield" <hjinrosvle@l...> wrote: > What type of pressure increase would result on the motor. Wouldn't this cause > more load and thereby shorten the motor life??? > Howard S > >One way to speed up the clamshell is the reconfigure the pulley > >system that lifts the clamshell >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12656	From: J_Gasal@Compuserve.com	Date: 4/7/2001
Subject: Re: MTH Coal Loader

Latest report - For kicks, I reconfigured my coal loader with the 2:1 reduction pulley system to speed it up (see old message for how I did it). After all my messing around it DIDN'T WORK!! The clamshell did lift faster, but the increased tension caused the transport dolly to start moving towards the coal bin before the clamshell hit the top of the arm. It appears that any method to speed it up must be done with the motor / gear box / take up drum assembly. At least I'm having as much fun experimenting with the unit as I am playing with it! John > I haven't decided to do this to my unit, but if I did, I would only > change the unit from a 3:1 reduction to 2:1 reduction. This would > take about 2 minutes to do - Disconnect the end of the string which > is attached to the clamshell, and move it up and terminate it on a > screw on the dolly which travels on the arm. When this is done, only > 2 lines should be going down to the clamshell (instead of 3). > > > --- In S-Trains@y..., "howard sheffield" <hjinrosvle@l...> wrote: > > What type of pressure increase would result on the motor. Wouldn't > this cause > > more load and thereby shorten the motor life??? > > Howard S > > >One way to speed up the clamshell is the reconfigure the pulley > > >system that lifts the clamshell > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12657	From: M.McConnell	Date: 4/7/2001
Subject: Re: Pictures of new products

I just found out the files address I posted in my last message doesn't work. My e-mail program doesn't like spaces in the name - it messed up the link in my message. Try this address and see if it works better. It's for the pictures of the AM Budd car and Trainmaster. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/AM%20Budd_Trainmaster/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12658	From: Alan C Udy	Date: 4/7/2001
Subject: Based in Fact?

I just caught up with previous postings and haven't seen this tidbit. From the "B&O Modeler" column in the recently arrived "The Sentinel" of the B&O Railroad Historical Society: "Rumor has it that S-Helper Service will be bringing out Chinnese made models for B&O E-27 class 2-8-0s and a companion 0-8-0. Their F-3 diesel is due soon but will be available only in the blue, grey and black passenger scheme." It's nice when S gets some notice in the historical society press. Note, many of the prototype E-27s were converted to 0-8-0s and survived well into the fifties. Alan Udy, RMHRS Idaho Falls, ID ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12659	From: busyboy	Date: 4/7/2001
Subject: Re: Snow white and the seven dwarfs

>I have received at least 5 mailings of "Snow > White and the Seven Dwarfs" from "Hahaha". I seem to remember that our > lists said that this message included a virus so I have just deep sixed > the messages (even though I have Norton antivirus). >It would be nice if there was an address to which we could forward such >crap which would lead to an entity that search and destroy it once and for all. Your prayers are answered. Go to: http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/submit.html and follow the directions. Instead of deleting, you can send it along to them. This is Norton's service for Norton (Symantec) customers. They currently do not list Snow White under threats, jokes or hoaxes. Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12660	From: busyboy	Date: 4/7/2001
Subject: Re: Pictures of new products

M.McConnell says: >I finally got around to uploading some pictures I took at the last >Gilbertsville train show of the new AM Budd car and Trainmaster. I think that the people at Pennsylvania Heritage Models might be more than a little upset with you for this post! :-) Keep smiling. American models is indeed making the Budd passenger cars. The Trainmaster and the Budd RDC are products of PHM. Go to http://www.paheritagemodels.com/rdc.htm and http://www.paheritagemodels.com/train.htm to see the pictures and follow the progress. Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12661	From: busyboy	Date: 4/7/2001
Subject: Re: Based in Fact?

Alan C Udy posted: >From the "B&O Modeler" column in the recently arrived "The Sentinel" of >the B&O Railroad Historical Society: >"Rumor has it that S-Helper Service will be bringing out Chinnese made >models for B&O E-27 class 2-8-0s and a companion 0-8-0. Their F-3 diesel >is due soon but will be available only in the blue, grey and black >passenger scheme." AHA!!!!! Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12662	From: Trbngs@cs.com	Date: 4/7/2001
Subject: S-west

--- In S-Trains@y..., Alan C Udy <nsupbnsf@j...> wrote: > > "Rumor has it that S-Helper Service will be bringing out Chinnese made > models for B&O E-27 class 2-8-0s and a companion 0-8-0. > Gee, more "eastern" s-scale products! Of course, I'm glad to see any new S-scale product. However, except for the first AM pacific which could represent something found in the mid-west or even on a western railway, all the recent S-scale steam locomotives have been eastern prototypes. Maybe a majority of both S-scale modelers and manafactures are back east, but there are a few out west. Would it be too much to expect a little geographic distribution in future product prototypes? Tom Bangs

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12663	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 4/7/2001
Subject: Re: Pictures of new products

Same here--it gets better, I had e-mail address with Yahoo long before they took over e-groups. It gets better, that was my table I can't see. Even better, Yahoo seems to have no solution or way to address the problem. No way to contact anyone living or electronic. Service, a dying industry. Jim Lyle [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12664	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 4/7/2001
Subject: wrinkle paint

Well I looked at my local auto parts store,and hobby and craft store,does anyone have a brand name for the black wrinkle finish,or any other alternates?Thanks in advance,Keith. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12665	From: rlbelyea@msn.com	Date: 4/7/2001
Subject: Pa. Heritage Models

Does anybody have experience with the PHM Baldwin Chassis? What are pros and cons. I would appreciate some opinions. Robert

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12666	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 4/7/2001
Subject: Re: Pa. Heritage Models

I bought one about a month ago, and it is very nice. Installation is as simple as removing the screw in the back, take of the shell and put it on the new chassis. It runs very smooth, has more pulling power than the old one, and runs closer to scale speed. One downside is that the couplers are higher than the AF ones, and you may have to make a bolster to lower it for better contact. Best part is that if you want to go back to the old one, just reverse the process. Tom At 01:12 AM 4/8/01 +0000, you wrote: > Does anybody have experience with the PHM Baldwin Chassis? > What are pros and cons. I would appreciate some opinions. > Robert > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ _---_---_---______--__--___+-----+||] [||####### B & O #####|______||_____ || pjpennington@... __| [][] |__ || ||_______________________/ _| B&O |___\_|| | ||| | | | | | | / | 4212 | # ||| | []|=|==================o=====o==================|=|[] /|-||(0)|=|(0)|=|(O) |_________| (0)|=|(0)|=|(O)||-|\ ======================================================== [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12667	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 4/7/2001
Subject: Rubber stamps

Who sells the rubber stamps for relettering,and renumbering flyer repaints? I can't seem to find the link anymore.Thanks again,Keith _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12668	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 4/7/2001
Subject: You and Mark Twain

Doug-- LONG LIVE Port Lines!!! Reports of your death have been greatly exaggerated. John Eichmann RMHR Boise >>> Message: 12 Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 20:48:40 -0400 From: "Peck" <portlines@...> Subject: Re: Changing Hands PLEASE!!!!! "I" am not quitting!!!!! Port Lines goes on! Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12669	From: John Foley	Date: 4/7/2001
Subject: Fwd: re: NASG Convention & Open House

>Delivered-To: foley164@... >Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 20:14:20 -0400 >From: Al Howard <alhoward@...> >User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win95; en-US; CDonDemand) >Gecko/20010131 Netscape6/6.01 >X-Accept-Language: en >To: foley164@... >Subject: re: NASG Convention & Open House I just got this form Howard at ebay. Very nice of them to list our convention. John >Dear John Foley: > >Thought you might be interested in the free advertisement I placed >on our web site for you. > >Click here: >http://messageboards.ehobbies.com/ehobbies1/Forum9/HTML/000084.html > >I invite you and any of your members to visit our Trains Community >at any time, to view upcoming events, Model Trains discussions, and >help others in the hobby to enjoy what we have had the privilege of >enjoying for these many years. This is totally free and good promotion >for our hobby! > >Also feel free to post any advertisements for other Train related >events under the upcoming events folder. > >Please forward this email to all members of your club or >organization as a friendly reminder for your event. > >Regards, Al! > Howard >Trains Forum Manager ><http://www/eHobbies.com>http://www/eHobbies.com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12670	From: joestrainrepair@yahoo.com	Date: 4/8/2001
Subject: Yahoo! Auto Response

Attachments : Joe's Train Repair is closed until Monday, April 16th. All messages will be replied to when the shop is re-opened. Thanks, Joe -------------------- Original Message: Received: from mq.egroups.com (208.50.144.79) by mta469.mail.yahoo.com with SMTP; 08 Apr 2001 00:59:33 -0700 (PDT) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-26283-973-986716640-joestrainrepair=yahoo.com@... Received: from [10.1.4.56] by mq.egroups.com with NNFMP; 08 Apr 2001 07:57:20 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <986716640.382.65608.l10@yahoogroups.com> Mailing-List: list S-Trains@yahoogroups.com; contact S-Trains-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:S-Trains-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com> Date: 8 Apr 2001 07:57:20 -0000 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [S-Trains] Digest Number 973 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... --- _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12671	From: Velapoldi's	Date: 4/8/2001
Subject: Agreement

Dennis Conway wrote: "About the only other S product that needs to be addressed is a regular supply of S standard gauge turnouts in code .125 and/or code .148 closed frog versions. That would go a long way towards easing the transition from AF to hi-rail to scale for many existing fence-sitters." I couldn't agree more with Dennis. However, it isn't because I am a fence-sitter, I just want to be able to run both! I don't have enough room to build "two separate" layouts (have room for barely one), so some track switches (#5, #6, wyes, double slip, etc.) in code 125 or 148 that are "rtu" (ready to use) and handle both scale wheelsets AND AF type high rail wheels would be most welcome!! I just don't want to tinker/adjust some of the existing ones - and I am putting off building a permanent layout until I get some of those types of track. Also, I have quite a bit of Flyer and modern high rail and don't want to get rid of all that just to go into scale! I have SHS track, AM track, Miller tie strip + code 125 rail, a pair of code 125 switches from Branch line + AF track and switches. Unfortunately during my last move I "sold" some of the "scale" kits (regal, kinsman, permabilt, nimco, etc.) to some of you, so I don't have as many as I did before. But I digress! I have enjoyed the changing hands "train of thought". I also have some old advertisements from Branch Line (and possibly a few others) that I would be willing to send to a person who would like to put together all these thoughts on changing hands into a cogent document that would be interesting to some of this older generation as it brings back quite a bit of memories. Contact me off list if so and I will make up a little package and send it to you with the proviso that I get a copy of the final product. Rance Velapoldi. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12672	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 4/8/2001
Subject: Re: S-west

All we need is enough interest in the form of reservations and it can happen. Tom D. ----- Original Message ----- From: <Trbngs@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 7:08 PM Subject: [S-Trains] S-west > --- In S-Trains@y..., Alan C Udy <nsupbnsf@j...> wrote: > > > > "Rumor has it that S-Helper Service will be bringing out Chinnese > made > > models for B&O E-27 class 2-8-0s and a companion 0-8-0. > > > > Gee, more "eastern" s-scale products! Of course, I'm glad to see any > new S-scale product. However, except for the first AM pacific which > could represent something found in the mid-west or even on a western > railway, all the recent S-scale steam locomotives have been eastern > prototypes. Maybe a majority of both S-scale modelers and > manafactures are back east, but there are a few out west. Would it > be too much to expect a little geographic distribution in future > product prototypes? > > Tom Bangs > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12673	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 4/8/2001
Subject: Re: Pa. Heritage Models

Gentlemen, Just as a point of interest the run has been completely sold out. With the Trainamster project, the new trolley chassis, 2 new flagstops,( all in S Gauge) plus at least 2 other unannounced untertakings, the Baldwin chassis has been removed from our production schedule. If anybody would like one, we will be accepting resrevations for the next run which will either be late this year or early in 2002. Tom D. ----- Original Message ----- From: <rlbelyea@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 9:12 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Pa. Heritage Models > > > Does anybody have experience with the PHM Baldwin Chassis? > What are pros and cons. I would appreciate some opinions. > Robert > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12674	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 4/8/2001
Subject: Re: Pa. Heritage Models

OK folks , let me give all a bit of info here. The truck frames are pewter. They are very easy to adjust for this type of problem. Just hold onto the truck and gently push or pull the coupler mounting to the height required. If the coupler ends up on an angle, you may have to grab the tongue area with a pair of long nose and form it to give you what is required. We do adjust these at the factory, but the couplers do get out of whack in shipping so this is how it is done. The reason we have been using pewter is: it is easy to straighten after a derailment and can easily be adjusted without shims or whatever. If you look at all of our drives, we try to use this metal where we think damage can occur in rough handling, wrecks ,etc. Besides it adds weight to the bottom of the units where it can do the most good! Tom D. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Pennington" <pjpennington@...> To: <rlbelyea@...> Cc: "S-Trains" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 9:22 PM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Pa. Heritage Models > I bought one about a month ago, and it is very nice. Installation is as simple > as removing the screw in the back, take of the shell and put it on the new > chassis. It runs very smooth, has more pulling power than the old one, and > runs closer to scale speed. One downside is that the couplers are higher than > the AF ones, and you may have to make a bolster to lower it for better contact. > Best part is that if you want to go back to the old one, just reverse the > process. > > Tom > > At 01:12 AM 4/8/01 +0000, you wrote: > > > > Does anybody have experience with the PHM Baldwin Chassis? > > What are pros and cons. I would appreciate some opinions. > > Robert > > > > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > _---_---_---______--__--___+-----+||] > [||####### B & O #####|______||_____ > || pjpennington@... __| [][] |__ || > ||_______________________/ _| B&O |___\_|| > | ||| | | | | | | / | 4212 | # ||| | > []|=|==================o=====o==================|=|[] > /|-||(0)|=|(0)|=|(O) |_________| (0)|=|(0)|=|(O)||-|\ > ======================================================== > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12675	From: TWYLA STARR	Date: 4/8/2001
Subject: k-5 parts

Greetings, I am in need of a boiler front with the long fingers for a K5 s.i.t. 310 or 312 and also need an XA10447 eccentric crank for the same engine. If anyone has these items please contact me at starr007@... with price including shipping. Also, I remember seeing a post here a while back about a new e- group for Plasticville buildings, If anyone has that web address could you please post it again? Thanks in advance. J.R. Starr [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12676	From: Robert Allen Conner NCARB Architect	Date: 4/8/2001
Subject: BUGS AND PARTS

I TOO HAVE GOTTEN THIS E-MAIL......LAST NOVEMBER I SPENT 4000.00 ON A NEW SYSTEM....A FEW DAYS LATER SOMEONE ON THIS GROUP FORWARDED THE FUN LOVE VIRUS TO ME...I CHECKED BACK THE PREVIOUS DAY AND FOUND THE TIME...IT MATCHED THE OPENING OF A CERTAIN FILE GROUP...SO FAR I HAVE SPENT IN EXCESS OF 800.00 TRYING TO FIX IT AND SAVE ALL MY FILES...NORTON LET IT SLIP RIGHT BY....ITS NOW GONE.....MY SYSTEM, I HOPE IS WELL COVERED NOW, AS THE BRAND NEW NORTON LET IT SLIP THROUGH, BUT I WILL BE CAREFUL FROM NOW ON.....HOW ANYONE COULD HAVE FUN DOING THIS BEATS ME... QUESTIONS.... 1. I HAVE SEEN LOTS OF MAIL ON USING TRADE NAMES.....IS AMERICANFLYERTRAINS....LEGAL? 2. I NEED 4 TO 6 KC FLATS....CHEAP TO REPAINT TO GO BEHIND MY ROYAL OLIVE DRAB LOCO....ARMY 3. I NEED QUITE A FEW OF THE EARLY ISSUES OF "S" GUAGIAN PRIOR TO 73 AND "S" HERALD PRIOR TO 67..... 4. I ALSO NEED SOME ALL ABOARD ACCESSORIES...TREES, TUNNELS, ETC....ALSO PICS OF THE SNOW PANELS SO I CAN REPAINT MY GREEN ONES....HAD A LOT OF NICE PICS.....BUT THE BUG GOT THEM BOB CONNER [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12677	From: Howell S Jobbins	Date: 4/8/2001
Subject: Re: Rubber stamps

Hi Keith, Doug Peck's "Port Lines Hobby Supplies" has a complete line of marking stamps http://www.portlines.com he has phonelines too 978-465-8798 phone/fax, and a order line 888-708-0782. Order his complete catalog, and you will find a complete list of all the stamps available. good luck, Steve J. http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html through "S" sources.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12678	From: Howell S Jobbins	Date: 4/8/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Agreement - Need the switches !!!

On Sun, 08 Apr 2001 12:22:13 +0200 Velapoldi's <velapoldi@...> writes: > Dennis Conway wrote: > "About the only other S product that needs to be addressed is a > regular > supply of S standard gauge turnouts in code .125 and/or code .148 > closed > frog versions. That would go a long way towards easing the > transition > from AF to hi-rail to scale for many existing fence-sitters." > > I couldn't agree more with Dennis. However, it isn't because I am a > fence-sitter, I just want to be able to run both! I > have quite a bit of Flyer and modern high rail and don't want to get > rid I AM SURE THERE ARE MANY OF US IN THIS STATE, can buy a scale $800.00 kit with no where to run it, or scrub the tons of high-rail and AF that are a part of my hobby history. Please bring on the CLOSED FROG switches in .148 rail.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12679	From: Peck	Date: 4/8/2001
Subject: Re: rubber stamps

< From: "Keith Kuzma" <keithkuzma@...> Subject: Rubber stamps Who sells the rubber stamps for relettering,and renumbering flyer repaints? I can't seem to find the link anymore.Thanks again,Keith > WE do.....and we just completed a 2nd run of all the stamps. Plus, we've added some new ones, including some prewar. We can also reproduce almost any original lettering as a rubber stamp, as long as we have the original item to photograph. We then computerize the image, clean it up, shrink it, and create the r/s. These end up as perfect duplicates of the original r/s lettering! Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12680	From: SMITTY@tir.com	Date: 4/8/2001
Subject: wrinkle paint

I just spent about two hours on the computer searching for "wrinkle paint" and the results are disappointing. Quite a number of older radio and electronics equipment used wrinkle paint, and I remembered a firm in AZ. that specialized in such parts and supplies. Finally located them on the 'Net and they too, are down to just one color of wrinkle paint ------ BLACK ! A year ago they had four or five colors, and no, not that grass green stuff. Their web address is: www.tubesandmore.com should you care to look them up and purchase a small aerosol can of their wrinkle black. They also carry small electro-plating kits and electronic cleaning supplies that may prove useful in restoration and maintenance. I found another antique electronics supply firm ( Central Utah Electronics Suppy ) that stocks wrinkle finish, but gave no particulars, I'll try contacting them later in the week. An intersting side-light: I found a site that specializes in selling old radios and early '30's and '40's techno-gizmos...one was a 1930's Gilbert Malt Mixer with.......you guessed it, a green wrinkle finish ! Even the auto restorationists are searching for wrinkle paint......one page I found had a Ferrarie ( sp ? ) restoration company that used a Plasti-Kote aerosol product. I read where it's available from Pep-Boys Auto Parts, it's Plasti-Kote's product 217 Wrinkle Finish . Another page told of using the cheapest brand of spray enamel available, multiple heavy coats before the precceding one cured ( 10 min. or so) and then heat curing with a blow drier or in an oven ( lots of cautionary stories of disgruntled wives and roasts that still taste of paint product years later ). Finally, I did try contacting the SafteTran Corp. on Friday, got a real-live receptionist that forwarded me to a tech person who, unfortunatley, was out of the office. They have just mover their corporate offices from Minneapolis to Knoxville and things are in an uproar, according to my signal maintainer. I'll pursue the tech-guy this week and let you all know how it turns out. Regard"S", Smitty

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12681	From: Rick Evans	Date: 4/8/2001
Subject: Re: Plasticville

Plasticville@yahoogroups.com will get ya there. Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12682	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 4/8/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, April 8, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12683	From: donabrams	Date: 4/8/2001
Subject: MTH Coal Loader

Looks like good 'ol AC must have done his homework! BTW -- is the takeup drum like AC's in that it 'slips' if you don't release the up button at the upper limit of travel? Does it have a solenoid to release the coal from the internal bin like on the original? In the up direction, does the button have two 'steps.' One to close the clamshell, then one to lift it? Thanks, Don >Latest report - For kicks, I reconfigured my coal loader with the 2:1 >reduction pulley system to speed it up (see old message for how I did >it). > >After all my messing around it DIDN'T WORK!! The clamshell did lift >faster, but the increased tension caused the transport dolly to start >moving towards the coal bin before the clamshell hit the top of the >arm. > >It appears that any method to speed it up must be done with the >motor / gear box / take up drum assembly. > >At least I'm having as much fun experimenting with the unit as I am >playing with it! > >John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12684	From: Euell Johnson	Date: 4/8/2001
Subject: Re: S-west

How about a shark nose deisel? EJ ----- Original Message ----- From: <Thomas@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>; <Trbngs@...> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 7:24 AM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] S-west > All we need is enough interest in the form of reservations and it can > happen. > Tom D. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <Trbngs@...> > To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 7:08 PM > Subject: [S-Trains] S-west > > > > --- In S-Trains@y..., Alan C Udy <nsupbnsf@j...> wrote: > > > > > > "Rumor has it that S-Helper Service will be bringing out Chinnese > > made > > > models for B&O E-27 class 2-8-0s and a companion 0-8-0. > > > > > > > Gee, more "eastern" s-scale products! Of course, I'm glad to see any > > new S-scale product. However, except for the first AM pacific which > > could represent something found in the mid-west or even on a western > > railway, all the recent S-scale steam locomotives have been eastern > > prototypes. Maybe a majority of both S-scale modelers and > > manafactures are back east, but there are a few out west. Would it > > be too much to expect a little geographic distribution in future > > product prototypes? > > > > Tom Bangs > > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12685	From: J_Gasal@Compuserve.com	Date: 4/8/2001
Subject: Re: MTH Coal Loader

Answers to the following 3 questions: 1) Don't know if it slips. Haven't tried running it until it jams. 2) Yes, a separate solenoid opens the bin. 3) Yes, the button has two steps. John. BTW -- is the takeup drum like AC's in that it 'slips' if you don't release the up button at the upper limit of travel? Does it have a solenoid to release the coal from the internal bin like on the original? In the up direction, does the button have two 'steps.' One to close the clamshell, then one to lift it?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12686	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 4/8/2001
Subject: MTH Coal Loader

Can anyone tell me what the price was (is) for the MTH coal loader. I have seen several of these on eBay and was wondering what a "good" price would be for one. Thanks, Tom _---_---_---______--__--___+-----+||] [||####### B & O #####|______||_____ || pjpennington@... __| [][] |__ || ||_______________________/ _| B&O |___\_|| | ||| | | | | | | / | 4212 | # ||| | []|=|==================o=====o==================|=|[] /|-||(0)|=|(0)|=|(O) |_________| (0)|=|(0)|=|(O)||-|\ ======================================================== [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12687	From: Tom Robichaud	Date: 4/9/2001
Subject: Re: MTH Coal Loader

Answer to question 1, yes it does slip if you hold the up button too long. J_Gasal@... on 04/08/2001 10:37:28 PM To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com cc: Subject: [S-Trains] Re: MTH Coal Loader Answers to the following 3 questions: 1) Don't know if it slips. Haven't tried running it until it jams. 2) Yes, a separate solenoid opens the bin. 3) Yes, the button has two steps. John. BTW -- is the takeup drum like AC's in that it 'slips' if you don't release the up button at the upper limit of travel? Does it have a solenoid to release the coal from the internal bin like on the original? In the up direction, does the button have two 'steps.' One to close the clamshell, then one to lift it? S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12688	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 4/9/2001
Subject: Diesel Roar Unit

OK, I have my 470 running well, looks great, now I am working on the 471. How does the diesel roar unit work, how can I tell if mine works, are there any external parts needed (control buttons etc.). I have never heard one of these work so I do not know what it is supposed to do or how it sounds. Any help is appreciated. Thanks, Tom _---_---_---______--__--___+-----+||] [||####### B & O #####|______||_____ || pjpennington@... __| [][] |__ || ||_______________________/ _| B&O |___\_|| | ||| | | | | | | / | 4212 | # ||| | []|=|==================o=====o==================|=|[] /|-||(0)|=|(0)|=|(O) |_________| (0)|=|(0)|=|(O)||-|\ ======================================================== [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12689	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/9/2001
Subject: Re: Diesel Roar Unit

Tom, If it makes noise when you put the power to the track, it works! No external parts needed, though some may believe earplugs are required. <G> It is basically the guts to a whistle/horn control tube, though modified to create a slightly different "buzz." Some of these actually sound like Alcos, at least when they're new. The little coil in there causes the "finger" to vibrate, and it opens and closes the contacts attached very rapidly, which the speaker picks up and amplifies. The fingers do metal fatigue and also can rust right at the base and then fail. Wish there were replacements made! My NH unit needs one. s' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12690	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/9/2001
Subject: Fixin' Flyer

HI all, No Fixin' Flyer column in the next Dispatch. My fault! I just spent too much time living real life and not writing about fun stuff. It'll be back in June, just thought y'all might want to know. Jeff is so patient with me, as I'm usually late, just got way too late this time. I could use some suggestions for subjects! The next one is scheduled to be about SIT units, and I promised to do one on KC couplers. Any more ideas? S' David D. PS Back to doin' taxes AAAUGH!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12691	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 4/9/2001
Subject: Re: Fixin' Flyer

Dave, Does that mean we get two columns next issue? Roger Petrella Franktown, CO David Dewey wrote: > HI all, > No Fixin' Flyer column in the next Dispatch. My fault! I just spent too > much time living real life and not writing about fun stuff. It'll be back in > June, just thought y'all might want to know. Jeff is so patient with me, as > I'm usually late, just got way too late this time. > I could use some suggestions for subjects! The next one is scheduled to be > about SIT units, and I promised to do one on KC couplers. Any more ideas? > S' > David D. > PS Back to doin' taxes AAAUGH! > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12692	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 4/9/2001
Subject: diesel roar

Diesel roar is one of my very favorite Flyer features. It consists of an oscillating relay and a speaker/resistor/capacitor. The relay makes and breaks electrical contact many times per second andthese breaks each produce a sound in the speaker. Weak point is that the tongue of the relay, which has 2 electrical contacts on it, can break off. If this happens, you have to replace the tongue or the entire unit. A roar unit can be created by modifying the relay in a diesel horn controller tube. If the unit is intact, first maintenance task is to clean both pairs of contacts with #600 sandpaper. To quote from my Roundhouse column in the Sept-Oct '93 S Gaugian, "Use small pieces of #600 sandpaper folded over so that the abrasive is facing out on both sides. Pull down the tongue if necessary to access the contacts and sand away any crud and oxidation that may have developed. This is often all you need to do to get the unit vibrating again." Second thing is to adjust the positions of the contacts or tongue. "The contact on the upper side of the tongue should touch the upper contact when the unit is at rest. The lower contacts should touch when the tongue is bent down by the coil's magnetic pull. The upper and lower contact arms can be bent up or down a little at a time with a screwdriver blade. If the lower contact is too high it may cause the coil and/or the resistor to overheat. the weight on the end of the tongue should almost but not quite touch the center of the coil.." The roar is so loud that some find it obnoxious, expecially wives. Gilbert soon incorporated an on/off switch in most roar-equipped diesels. Look for this switch on your unit. If it has one, make sure it's on! Hope this helps. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12693	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/9/2001
Subject: Re: Fixin' Flyer

Two columns?? Heh heh heh! Hmm, ask Jeff! S' David

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12694	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 4/9/2001
Subject: (no subject)

- Greeting`S' - Colin asked about a wiring diagram for the 302AC. As there was not one in my maintenance book, I sat down with my loco and developed the ASCII diagram below. Hope it helps. Cheer`S' Rhett =============================================================================== AF 302AC - Wiring Diagram cab roof - from rear tender - from front /~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\ |----------------------------------------| | |-----------------------------------------------------| | | |---------------------| | | | o | o--------| | | | | | | | | /=/ /=/ | o | o | | II xxxxxII reverser | \ | \ | | II // II drum & | \ | \ | | IIxxxxx | II fingers // | field ()()()()() | | II // | II | | | | drum II | | II drum | armature |-*O*-----| | end | | end | | | |_________| | | | | | reverser coil | headlamp |__O______| |___()()()()()()____| | | | tender | %%% < trucks > %%%

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12695	From: Bill Porter	Date: 4/9/2001
Subject: Re: (unknown)

Sadly, something in the mail process renders these text pictures down to the constituent characters. I've noticed several efforts in the past. None of them ever look like anything but the entrails of a chicken by the time I get them. I suspect that they have to be prepared in HTML or with a fixed pitch font (controlled by HTML so that it comes through that way) in order for these efforts to carry across all of our platforms. Take a look at it as it comes back in this response. Come to think of it, a lot of my wiring looks just like this..... Good Luck, Bill Porter -----Original Message----- From: Rhett T. George <rtg@...> To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Date: Monday, April 09, 2001 3:16 PM Subject: [S-Trains] (unknown) > > - Greeting`S' - > >Colin asked about a wiring diagram for the 302AC. As there was not one >in my maintenance book, I sat down with my loco and developed the ASCII >diagram below. Hope it helps. > >Cheer`S' > Rhett >=========================================================================== ==== > > AF 302AC - Wiring Diagram > > cab roof - from rear tender - from front > /~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\ > |----------------------------------------| > | |-----------------------------------------------------| > | | |---------------------| | | > | o | o--------| | | | > | | | | | /=/ /=/ | > o | o | | II xxxxxII reverser | > \ | \ | | II // II drum & | > \ | \ | | IIxxxxx | II fingers // | > field ()()()()() | | II // | II | > | | | drum II | | II drum | > armature |-*O*-----| | end | | end | > | | |_________| | | > | | | reverser coil | > headlamp |__O______| |___()()()()()()____| > | | > | tender | > %%% < trucks > %%% > > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12696	From: dlehnhoff@hotmail.com	Date: 4/9/2001
Subject: MTH COAL LOADER

Ok Folks: Got the coal loader via Doug Peck. Now what's the concensus on the best coal?? Lionel, HO? Dwight Lehnhoff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12697	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 4/9/2001
Subject: MTH coaler pictures

http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/coaler/MTH_coaler.html ===== Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com Photography - Computers - Trains __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12698	From: howard sheffield	Date: 4/9/2001
Subject: Re: Fixin' Flyer

Dave, how about an article on how to get more trains for less money. >> I could use some suggestions for subjects! The next one is scheduled to be >> about SIT units, and I promised to do one on KC couplers. Any more ideas? >> S' >> David D. _______________________________________________________________________ Free Domain Name Registration with Web Hosting at Lanset Communications. 56k Dialup, DSL, and Colocation at http://www.lanset.net

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12699	From: SMITTY@tir.com	Date: 4/9/2001
Subject: diesel roar

Like Tom Jarcho, the diesel roar is one of my favorite as well. I got a set of the blue and yellow Alcos wherein the roar feature no longer functioned. The cause ? The vibrating tongue had broken off. The fix wasn't all that difficult. Steel shimstock available from machinist supply houses comes in many thickness. I tried 0.005 " which was too thin, the 0.007 " was almost it and the 0.010 " was just right. Trace out the design and use a carbide dental burr in your Dremel tool to get the proper shape. The originals had a piece of steel spot welded at the end nearest the magnet, I soldered a small piece on. I forget the thickness, if anyone's interested contact me off-line and I'll get the measurement for you. Reinstall the newly completed tongue and you should be in business ! The Alco's sound better than the T & P Geeps I have. Must be a function of tongue thickness and / or distance from the magnet. Regard"S", Smitty

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12700	From: JRKRrdd@aol.com	Date: 4/9/2001
Subject: "Like Television" for AF

Hi Gang, This website seems unique and is a storehouse for oldies including tv commercials. If Gilbert had tv commercials; videos or similar, this might be a spot to computerize (immortalize?) them--Barbie is there (toyland). They are looking for submittals: Http://ltvreal.liketelevision.com:554/ramgen/classic/stooge1.smil The first letter is '"L" = ltv and last expression is SMiL John R [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12701	From: busyboy	Date: 4/9/2001
Subject: MTH Coaling Tower

I just put my new coaling tower back into it's box. (MIB . . . cool). It came today. Thank you, Joe Haenn. It is very impressive. Because of it's flat paint finish and other details (windows, corrugated roof) it leans enough away from tinplate and toward scale that it achieves hi-rail. I am very pleased. I am delighted with the control button, designed to complement later era Flyer buttons. The fit and finish are impeccable. It comes well wrapped and packed in a cardstock box and wrapped in a corrugated shipping container all its own. I finally have a new Flyer accessory. If you, like me, are constantly striving to recreate 10 great minutes experienced under a Christmas tree 40 years ago, then you will understand the special little throwback thrill I got as I unwrapped this little treasure. It looks Flyer, it smells new and it isn't a coal loader at all. It's a time machine. Thank you, Mike Wolf. Mike, I guess, is finally a player in the S gauge market, though, he strangely avoids acknowledging us. For example, the instructions give clearance dimensions for every style of 0 gauge track, but never mention S at all. There is no reference to American Flyer either. This may be shrewd legal strategy to avoid copyright or patent infringements. It may also be simply a way for MTH to reproduce an old style train accessory for their 0 gauge customers, Flyer guys be damned. But then, there's that button. It won't match the Lionel style buttons, now will it? I take that as a mischievous wink and a nod from Mr. Wolf. Welcome to the perfect scale Mike. What's next? Two to go, (back to the future) Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12702	From: jmogil@aol.com	Date: 4/9/2001
Subject: Wanted SHS #0051 UP & #0053 CNW

I am looking for 2 of each S-Helper Service Stock cars #0051 UP and #0053 CNW for myself and fellow S gauger Lou Slotnick. If anyone in the group has either or both and would like to sell them, please contact me thru the group postings or directly thru AOL. (JMogil@...) Thanks, Joe Mogil Member South Jersey S Gaugers & NASG

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12703	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 4/9/2001
Subject: MTH Coaler

Let me join the list of those who received their MTH coal loader from Joe's Trains Repair today. It is sitting in the middle of my 14 panel and growing All Aboard layout, where I think it has found a home. MTH deserves credit for delivering an faithful reproduction at a reasonable price. These are certainly exciting times be a Flyer guy!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12704	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 4/9/2001
Subject: Re: MTH COAL LOADER

My original Flyer coal loader works great with Woodland scenics coarse black HO ballast. dlehnhoff@... wrote: > > Ok Folks: > Got the coal loader via Doug Peck. Now what's the concensus on the > best coal?? Lionel, HO? > > Dwight Lehnhoff > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12705	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 4/9/2001
Subject: Re: diesel roar

In a message dated 4/9/01 8:59:14 PM, SMITTY@... writes: << The Alco's sound better than the T & P Geeps I have. Must be a function of tongue thickness and / or distance from the magnet. >> The Alcos sound better primarily because the Alco body is a relatively large slotted chamber which yields more bass while the Geep body is small. The Diesel Roar in the '56 New Haven dummy PA (No. 495) sounds the best of all IMHO. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12706	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 4/9/2001
Subject: Re: MTH Coaling Tower

Dear Chris, I think you underestimate Mike Wolf. Yes, he too is a closet "S" scaler. Ever measure his "Country Hours, Farm House or Row House"? How about his people (set #1 and #2), they ain't Zero scale Chris, they is "S"! Don T. busyboy wrote: > I just put my new coaling tower back into it's box. (MIB . . . cool). It > came today. Thank you, Joe Haenn. > > It is very impressive. Because of it's flat paint finish and other details > (windows, corrugated roof) it leans enough away from tinplate and toward > scale that it achieves hi-rail. I am very pleased. I am delighted with the > control button, designed to complement later era Flyer buttons. The fit and > finish are impeccable. It comes well wrapped and packed in a cardstock box > and wrapped in a corrugated shipping container all its own. I finally have > a new Flyer accessory. > > If you, like me, are constantly striving to recreate 10 great minutes > experienced under a Christmas tree 40 years ago, then you will understand > the special little throwback thrill I got as I unwrapped this little > treasure. It looks Flyer, it smells new and it isn't a coal loader at all. > It's a time machine. Thank you, Mike Wolf. > > Mike, I guess, is finally a player in the S gauge market, though, he > strangely avoids acknowledging us. For example, the instructions give > clearance dimensions for every style of 0 gauge track, but never mention S > at all. There is no reference to American Flyer either. This may be shrewd > legal strategy to avoid copyright or patent infringements. It may also be > simply a way for MTH to reproduce an old style train accessory for their 0 > gauge customers, Flyer guys be damned. But then, there's that button. It > won't match the Lionel style buttons, now will it? I take that as a > mischievous wink and a nod from Mr. Wolf. > > Welcome to the perfect scale Mike. What's next? > > Two to go, (back to the future) > Chris Zizzo > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New 2nd run reefers are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12707	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 4/9/2001
Subject: Re: MTH COAL LOADER

In a message dated 4/9/01 10:53:55 PM, cesmith@... writes: << Ok Folks: > Got the coal loader via Doug Peck. Now what's the concensus on the > best coal?? Lionel, HO? Dwight Lehnhoff >> Highly recommend Life Like No. 1105 for the originals. It "works" well and looks good, too. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12708	From: Randall L. Griggs	Date: 4/9/2001
Subject: http://www.boysrailroadclub.com

Does anyone know John Huster at: john@... ? I sent John an order (via regular mail) back on Jan. 13, 2001 for a B&O TIME-SAVER Box Car and a Boys Club 6 episode video. Neither item has been received, nor have I heard anything back from John after several eMails and a snail-mail. He perhaps didn't, in fact, receive my mail order, but it would be nice to get a response, one way or another. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Regards, Randy Griggs

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12709	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 4/9/2001
Subject: Re: Diesel Roar Unit

Did a little more research after the descriptions did not match what I am looking at. The unit has a date stamp inside on the roof of Aug 1954. After checking, it seems this is to early for the roar unit, so what is it. There is a speaker and a tubular piece that is wired into the speaker, and says 15mf wvdc. Not up on the history here, HELP. Tom At 11:35 AM 4/9/01 -0400, you wrote: >OK, I have my 470 running well, looks great, now I am working on the >471. How does the diesel roar unit work, >how can I tell if mine works, are there any external parts needed (control >buttons etc.). I have never heard one >of these work so I do not know what it is supposed to do or how it >sounds. Any help is appreciated. Thanks, Tom > > _---_---_---______--__--___+-----+||] > [||####### B & O #####|______||_____ > || pjpennington@... __| [][] |__ || > ||_______________________/ _| B&O |___\_|| > | ||| | | | | | | / | 4212 | # ||| | >[]|=|==================o=====o==================|=|[] > /|-||(0)|=|(0)|=|(O) |_________| (0)|=|(0)|=|(O)||-|\ >======================================================== > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ _---_---_---______--__--___+-----+||] [||####### B & O #####|______||_____ || pjpennington@... __| [][] |__ || ||_______________________/ _| B&O |___\_|| | ||| | | | | | | / | 4212 | # ||| | []|=|==================o=====o==================|=|[] /|-||(0)|=|(0)|=|(O) |_________| (0)|=|(0)|=|(O)||-|\ ======================================================== [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12710	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 4/9/2001
Subject: Re: MTH coaler pictures

Hmmmm... Note the capacitor across the motor terminals... Thanx for the pix, Paul! Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12712	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 4/9/2001
Subject: Re: MTH Coaling Tower

Don T. wrote: >Mike Wolf...is a closet "S" scaler. >Ever measure his "Country Hours, Farm House or Row House"? How >about his people >(set #1 and #2), they ain't Zero scale... they is "S"! Wouldn't it be ironic if Mike Wolf did a "Gilbert" and began competing with Lionel using S as MTHs primary gauge? Oh well, I can dream... "Zero scale", indeed. I love it! (The comment, not the scale.) Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12713	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 4/9/2001
Subject: MTH COALING TOWER

Can someone let me know what the prices are on these towers...I saw one one E-bay for $142.00+ $7.00 Shipping.....Is this a reas. price Are there any dealers that are on this list selling them for about that price range >>>>I"d rather get one from a list dealer than an a E-bay deal unless of course the $$$ are alot more......Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12714	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 4/10/2001
Subject: Re: Diesel Roar Unit

You have the diesel horn. It requires a diesel horn controller to operate. The cylindrical thing is a capacitor. Tom Pennington wrote: > > Did a little more research after the descriptions did not match what I am > looking at. > The unit has a date stamp inside on the roof of Aug 1954. After checking, > it seems > this is to early for the roar unit, so what is it. There is a speaker and > a tubular piece > that is wired into the speaker, and says 15mf wvdc. Not up on the history > here, HELP. > > Tom > > At 11:35 AM 4/9/01 -0400, you wrote: > >OK, I have my 470 running well, looks great, now I am working on the > >471. How does the diesel roar unit work, > >how can I tell if mine works, are there any external parts needed (control > >buttons etc.). I have never heard one > >of these work so I do not know what it is supposed to do or how it > >sounds. Any help is appreciated. Thanks, Tom > > > > _---_---_---______--__--___+-----+||] > > [||####### B & O #####|______||_____ > > || pjpennington@... __| [][] |__ || > > ||_______________________/ _| B&O |___\_|| > > | ||| | | | | | | / | 4212 | # ||| | > >[]|=|==================o=====o==================|=|[] > > /|-||(0)|=|(0)|=|(O) |_________| (0)|=|(0)|=|(O)||-|\ > >======================================================== > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > _---_---_---______--__--___+-----+||] > [||####### B & O #####|______||_____ > || pjpennington@... __| [][] |__ || > ||_______________________/ _| B&O |___\_|| > | ||| | | | | | | / | 4212 | # ||| | > []|=|==================o=====o==================|=|[] > /|-||(0)|=|(0)|=|(O) |_________| (0)|=|(0)|=|(O)||-|\ > ======================================================== > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12715	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 4/10/2001
Subject: Re: http://www.boysrailroadclub.com

Thank goodness for this discussion group! I was just about to order from this guy! Randall L. Griggs wrote: > Does anyone know John Huster at: john@... ? I sent John > an order (via regular mail) back on Jan. 13, 2001 for a B&O TIME-SAVER Box > Car and a Boys Club 6 episode video. Neither item has been received, > nor have I heard anything back from John after several eMails and a > snail-mail. He perhaps didn't, in fact, receive my mail order, but it > would be nice to get a response, one way or another. Any help would be > greatly appreciated. Thanks! > > Regards, Randy Griggs > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12716	From: Tom Robichaud	Date: 4/10/2001
Subject: Re: MTH COAL LOADER

I use Woodland Scenics black course ballast. dlehnhoff@... on 04/09/2001 06:29:50 PM To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com cc: Subject: [S-Trains] MTH COAL LOADER Ok Folks: Got the coal loader via Doug Peck. Now what's the concensus on the best coal?? Lionel, HO? Dwight Lehnhoff S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12717	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 4/10/2001
Subject: Re: MTH Coaler & Leaving Chat

David, I got disconnected for yahoo, and could not connect to that sight for the rest of the night! The loaders were sent UPS ground, so it may take a day or so longer to CA.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12718	From: Douglass Allen	Date: 4/10/2001
Subject: S-Fest

Anyone who is not already on the S-Fest mailing list, and would like to be, send me, OFF LIST, your: Name Address Telephone number e-mail address and your preference as to whether you'd like to be contacted by postal or e-mail. Doug Allen Treasurer State Line S-Gaugers (hosting for 2001) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12719	From: Scott Holm	Date: 4/10/2001
Subject: Text pictures

If you can change the font on your mail reader to courier, (a monospaced font; all chars are the same size,) this might do the trick. Otherwise, you could also try selecting all the text, copying and then pasting it into a word processing program like word or even notepad and then selecting all again and changing the font to courier. --- Bill Porter <wpporter@...> wrote: Sadly, something in the mail process renders these text pictures down to the constituent characters. I've noticed several efforts in the past. None of them ever look like anything but the entrails of a chicken by the time I get them. I suspect that they have to be prepared in HTML or with a fixed pitch font (controlled by HTML so that it comes through that way) in order for these efforts to carry across all of our platforms. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12720	From: Gerry Evans	Date: 4/10/2001
Subject: Freebie

When we relocated from St. Louis to Flagstaff, I parceled out some of my structure models to the guys in the AFSGSLA club. This was a blessing in disguise as many of you are aware that our moving van crashed in NM on its way to AZ with many models destroyed or severely damaged. One of the models still in St. Louis has become available a/o the guy who has it can't seem to integrate it into his layout. I cannot integrate it into my layout either a/o I didn't plan either track alignment or space for it. So, the model is free-for-the-taking. The AFSGSLA club has first "dibs" on it for one of their two club layouts, but I thought I'd see if there were any interest in a "freebie" as if I didn't know S scalers/gaugers and how they don't like "freebies." The model is Frank Titman's anthracite coal mine. This includes the mine head and the coal breaker but not the power house. It is painted, wired for electricity, and, if I say so myself, extremely well-modeled. The only hitch is that you must pick it up in St. Louis. Also, since nothing in life is ever free, I think I'll turn this into an essay contest where I will be the sole judge. If the AFSGSLA club doesn't want to use the mine on their sectional or F-B layouts, the mine goes to the guy who can tell me best how he will use it--and who can commit to picking it up in St. Louis. Maybe I should exclude Bob Jackson a/o he's only two hours from St. Louis and can wax so eloquently on any subject <vbg>. Gerry Evans [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12721	From: Jerry Riechert	Date: 4/10/2001
Subject: diesel roar - too hot?

I've got my childhood 377/378 T&P set with diesel roar and horn. With the info printed here I should be able to resurrect the roar sound (although I don't remember it making noise, even as a kid?). But I also have had problems with a melt spot on the shell. I distinctly remember going to the hobby shop with my dad and getting a new shell because the old one melted. My current one also has such a spot (any suggestions on where I can get an unmelted shell?). According to Barker's book the roar circuitry was the culprit and he suggested disconnecting it which I did. If I try to get it working again, how do I prevent the melting? -- Jerry Riechert

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12722	From: colin_olsen@hotmail.com	Date: 4/10/2001
Subject: S-Gauge Round House

Is there any kit available for a Round House that will work with America Flyer stuff? If so, an address, email or whatever. Thanks.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12723	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 4/10/2001
Subject: too hot

Most body melting in the 377-378 diesel, which is common (the melting, that is) , is caused by the heat of the light bulbs and is found over and next to the bulb locations. When operating this unit it is best to use original 1447 (18 volt) bulbs. 18 volt bulbs produce less heat than 14 volt bulbs; the original bulbs are shorter than the ones made today. It is also possible to rotate the lamp brackets so the bulbs are as far away from the body as possible. If you want to contact me off list, we can discuss repairing the damage, which I have done successfully many times. The other Flyer loco that is notoriously vulnerable to bulb damage is the 499/21573 New Haven electric. Again, short 18 volt bulbs are best. The factory added foil sheets under the hoods over the bulbs on the 21573, but these are often missing. I like to cut pieces of aluminum from a takeout food container to fit under the hoods and glue them in place with a few small dabs of silicone sealant. These effectively protect the hoods from bulb heat. Tom Jarcho jarcho@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12724	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 4/10/2001
Subject: SHS B&0 2-8-0 (was Re: [S-Scale] Re: [S-Trains] Based in Fact?)

Don Thompson wrote: > Dear Rich, > I am not sure about the L-2 (0-8-0), but we expect the final assembly > drawings of the E-27 next month. > Don If anyone's interested, I've found a photo of a B&0 E-27 at: http://gelwood.railfan.net/other/bo/bo-s2803.jpg Be seeing you... Rich G.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12725	From: Velapoldi's	Date: 4/10/2001
Subject: Re: MTH COALING TOWER

I think the selling/list price was/is $149.95. anormal1@... wrote: > Can someone let me know what the prices are on these towers...I saw one > one E-bay for $142.00+ $7.00 Shipping.....Is this a reas. price Are there any > dealers that are on this list selling them for about that price range >>>>I"d > rather get one from a list dealer than an a E-bay deal unless of course the > $$$ are alot more......Mike S. > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12726	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 4/10/2001
Subject: Re: [showcaseline] E-27's Pics.

Dear Steve, Great Question, You can find prototype photos of the B&O E-27s on line at: http://www.northeast.railfan.net/bo_steam2.html#pt2 If you look in Mainline Modeler, February 1998 issue, a great article by S Scales own Geof Graber (Greenbriar Models, importer of the GP-30's in brass) has the best prototype photos and pretty good drawings. Don T. hsjobbins@... wrote: > Don, do you have any proto-type E-27's pics? Or railfan sites to > search for this new baby ??? Thanks, we are all very interested in > and appreciate your efforts. Steve J. -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New 2nd run reefers are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12727	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 4/10/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Agreement - Need the switches !!!

Dear Howell, Our #6 switch which is due next year will have a closed frog and operate both AF and code 110 wheels. Don T. -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New 2nd run reefers are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12728	From: Neimanis,V. [NCR]	Date: 4/10/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 975

In response to Message: 22 Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 23:51:41 -0400 From: "Randall L. Griggs" <rlgriggs@...> Subject: http://www.boysrailroadclub.com Does anyone know John Huster at: john@... ? I sent John an order (via regular mail) back on Jan. 13, 2001 for a B&O TIME-SAVER Box Car and a Boys Club 6 episode video. Neither item has been received, nor have I heard anything back from John after several eMails and a snail-mail. He perhaps didn't, in fact, receive my mail order, but it would be nice to get a response, one way or another. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Regards, Randy Griggs +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I did deal with this gentleman several years ago. I remember some delays in the reciept of the videos and related materials. But, in the end all worked out for me. FYI V. Neimanis _

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12729	From: Robert Allen Conner NCARB Architect	Date: 4/10/2001
Subject: remove rcon@mediaone.net

please remove rcon@......my address changed [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12730	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 4/10/2001
Subject: Flyer Images

Does anybody know the owner of this site?, warning it loads pretty slow. http://www.geocities.com/bastards_retreat/index.htm I would like to get permission to use some of these pictures on my site.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12731	From: donabrams	Date: 4/10/2001
Subject: Diagram

What settings do I need to modify on my e-mail program (Outlook Express) to make this look like an actual diagram on my PC's screen? Just looks like a mess on my screen. Ditto for the B&O diesel that someone puts below their signature. Thanks, Don >Message: 8 > Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 15:15:25 -0400 > From: "Rhett T. George" <rtg@...> >Subject: (unknown) > - Greeting`S' - >Colin asked about a wiring diagram for the 302AC. As there was not one >in my maintenance book, I sat down with my loco and developed the ASCII >diagram below. Hope it helps. >Cheer`S' >Rhett ============================================================================ === AF 302AC - Wiring Diagram cab roof - from rear tender - from front /~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\ |----------------------------------------| | |-----------------------------------------------------| | | |---------------------| | | | o | o--------| | | | | | | | | /=/ /=/ | o | o | | II xxxxxII reverser | \ | \ | | II // II drum & | \ | \ | | IIxxxxx | II fingers // | field ()()()()() | | II // | II | | | | drum II | | II drum | armature |-*O*-----| | end | | end | | | |_________| | | | | | reverser coil | headlamp |__O______| |___()()()()()()____| | | | tender | %%% < trucks > %%%

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12732	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 4/10/2001
Subject: TENDER-LESS

Can some one point me in the right direction?? I have an engine w/tender I want to wire it to run with out the tender....There are 4 wires coming out of the tender from the e-unit Etc...A black green two gray which do I have to put power to to let the engine run w/out the tender??? (I'm testing smoke with it ) Do the greys have to be twisted together or any other combo??? Thanks Mike S....

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12733	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 4/10/2001
Subject: Re: too hot

Tom (and others), I believe Triple S sells 24 volt replacement bulbs that burn much cooler, although with a slight loss in light output. Roger Petrella Franktown, CO jarcho@... wrote: > Most body melting in the 377-378 diesel, which is common (the melting, that > is) , is caused by the heat of the light bulbs and is found over and next > to the bulb locations. When operating this unit it is best to use original > 1447 (18 volt) bulbs. 18 volt bulbs produce less heat than 14 volt bulbs; > the original bulbs are shorter than the ones made today. It is also > possible to rotate the lamp brackets so the bulbs are as far away from the > body as possible. > > If you want to contact me off list, we can discuss repairing the damage, > which I have done successfully many times. > > The other Flyer loco that is notoriously vulnerable to bulb damage is the > 499/21573 New Haven electric. Again, short 18 volt bulbs are best. The > factory added foil sheets under the hoods over the bulbs on the 21573, but > these are often missing. I like to cut pieces of aluminum from a takeout > food container to fit under the hoods and glue them in place with a few > small dabs of silicone sealant. These effectively protect the hoods from > bulb heat. > > Tom Jarcho > jarcho@... > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12734	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 4/10/2001
Subject: Re: TENDER-LESS

On inspection you will find two wires connect to the field and two to the armature. Connect one field wire to one armature wire. Apply power to the remaining one field and one armature winding. Thus armature and field are in series. That must be why they call these things series wound. anormal1@... wrote: > > Can some one point me in the right direction?? I have an engine w/tender I > want to wire it to run with out the tender....There are 4 wires coming out of > the tender from the e-unit Etc...A black green two gray which do I have > to put power to to let the engine run w/out the tender??? (I'm testing smoke > with it ) Do the greys have to be twisted together or any other combo??? > Thanks Mike S.... > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12735	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 4/10/2001
Subject: COALING TOWER

Thanks to all that responded I came up with a supplier on this list.....clayk@........$140.00 + $7.00 shipping (No I don't work for him ) Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12736	From: Robert Allen Conner NCARB Architect	Date: 4/10/2001
Subject: Re: remove rcon@mediaone.net

s-trains-unsubscribe@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Allen Conner NCARB Architect" <rcon7@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 5:12 PM Subject: [S-Trains] remove rcon@... > please remove rcon@......my address changed > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12737	From: Peck	Date: 4/10/2001
Subject: Re: MTH Coaler

<< Can someone let me know what the prices are on these towers...I saw one one E-bay for $142.00+ $7.00 Shipping.....Is this a reas. price Are there any dealers that are on this list selling them for about that price range >>>>I"d rather get one from a list dealer than an a E-bay deal >> We have ONE unit left from our entire shipment, if anyone is still considering one of these! $150, with free shipping. Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12738	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 4/10/2001
Subject: DC CAN MOTOR CONVERSION KITS.

OK gang, Just to end all the rumors going around about me having a can motor kit for replacing Flyer Steam loco engines that may have bit the dust coming soon, I want to say that "THEY ARE HERE." After extensive testing, they are ready for the marketplace. These are 5 pole skewed armature can motors that fit COMPLETELY INSIDE any Flyer standard or super armature Steam Loco. You do not have to bend or remove anything in the cab or boiler. They are being sold two ways. One is as is with mounting plate and mounting screws along with the necessary wire to be run on DC transformers. The other is the same but with a 4 amp heavy duty rectifier that is attached to the e-unit and makes it completely 4 step functional on an AC transformer. They are smooth as glass and you won't believe how slow your 312 or 293 will creep around the layout if you so choose. On the other hand the will pull just as big a load and just as fast as a good running standard armature loco. They come with complete installation instructions including diagrams for either mode of operation. The selling price is $20 for the unrectified ones and $25 with the rectifier. On another note, Volume II of the S-Gauge video series has now been shot and it's off to the editing and production rooms. And surprise, Volume III is partly shot as well. We spent 5 hr. with Jess Bennett again with no crowd of S-festers to clog up the works. He does a lot of talking about construction of layouts and rolling stock, so the scalers will love that segment. Keep on rollin' that S-tock...Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12739	From: Jerry Riechert	Date: 4/10/2001
Subject: Re: too hot

This melted spot is smack dab in the center of one side, directly above the space between American and Flyer. jarcho@... wrote: > Most body melting in the 377-378 diesel, which is common (the melting, that > is) , is caused by the heat of the light bulbs and is found over and next > to the bulb locations. When operating this unit it is best to use original > 1447 (18 volt) bulbs. 18 volt bulbs produce less heat than 14 volt bulbs; > the original bulbs are shorter than the ones made today. It is also > possible to rotate the lamp brackets so the bulbs are as far away from the > body as possible. <<<snip>>> -- Jerry Riechert

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12740	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 4/11/2001
Subject: Re: S-west

Let's see. I think American Hirail made the shell. We can make a chassis, That might be an easy do if Tom H. ever gets back to casting again. Also, I seem to recall the folks in up state New York trying to get out the long awaited New York Lighting stripe version. Don't know how that is going. Tom D. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Euell Johnson" <bigfoot@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>; <Trbngs@...>; <Thomas@...> Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 9:24 PM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] S-west > How about a shark nose deisel? > > EJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <Thomas@...> > To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>; <Trbngs@...> > Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 7:24 AM > Subject: Re: [S-Trains] S-west > > > > All we need is enough interest in the form of reservations and it can > > happen. > > Tom D. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: <Trbngs@...> > > To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2001 7:08 PM > > Subject: [S-Trains] S-west > > > > > > > --- In S-Trains@y..., Alan C Udy <nsupbnsf@j...> wrote: > > > > > > > > "Rumor has it that S-Helper Service will be bringing out Chinnese > > > made > > > > models for B&O E-27 class 2-8-0s and a companion 0-8-0. > > > > > > > > > > Gee, more "eastern" s-scale products! Of course, I'm glad to see any > > > new S-scale product. However, except for the first AM pacific which > > > could represent something found in the mid-west or even on a western > > > railway, all the recent S-scale steam locomotives have been eastern > > > prototypes. Maybe a majority of both S-scale modelers and > > > manafactures are back east, but there are a few out west. Would it > > > be too much to expect a little geographic distribution in future > > > product prototypes? > > > > > > Tom Bangs > > > > > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12741	From: Douglass Allen	Date: 4/11/2001
Subject: Best Coal

Best coal is black blasting sand. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12742	From: Tom Robichaud	Date: 4/11/2001
Subject: Re: Best Coal

Yo: The sandblasting "black diamond" that I have and tried jams the unload mechanism. Not sure if it's too heavy or to fine. Tommy "Douglass Allen" <douglass.allen@...> on 04/11/2001 12:52:07 PM To: "S Trains" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> cc: Subject: [S-Trains] Best Coal Best coal is black blasting sand. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12743	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 4/11/2001
Subject: Re: DC motor conversions

Cool. While not in the market to convert any its a good thing to see one (actualy another one if you count Timko's) available. Now with all that, why hasn't/can't somebody offer affordably priced replacement motors for our LTI AF diesels? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12744	From: Gregg Mummert	Date: 4/11/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 977

I and several others I know have had successful transactions with John. Hang in there! He will probably be heading to York soon which may add to the delay. The videos are worth the wait! Gregg Mummert >Message: 2 Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 06:57:28 -0500 From: kite1@... >Subject: Re: http://www.boysrailroadclub.com > >Thank goodness for this discussion group! I was just about to order from >this guy! > >Randall L. Griggs wrote: > > > Does anyone know John Huster at: john@... ? I sent John > > an order (via regular mail) back on Jan. 13, 2001 for a B&O TIME-SAVER >Box > Car and a Boys Club 6 episode video. Neither item has been received, > > nor have I heard anything back from John after several eMails and a > >snail-mail. He perhaps didn't, in fact, receive my mail order, but it > >would be nice to get a response, one way or another. Any help would be > >greatly appreciated. Thanks! > > Regards, Randy Griggs > > S-Trains list >sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you >desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send >a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is >subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12745	From: Al	Date: 4/11/2001
Subject: Boys Railroad Club

I just contacted John Huster with no problems at all. Maybe those on this list who are having problems should send an email to John to see what has happened to their orders. John's email address is: John Huster <john@...> Good Luck, Al Rawdon ------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 06:57:28 -0500 From: kite1@... Subject: Re: http://www.boysrailroadclub.com Thank goodness for this discussion group! I was just about to order from this guy! Randall L. Griggs wrote: > Does anyone know John Huster at: john@... ? I sent John > an order (via regular mail) back on Jan. 13, 2001 for a B&O TIME-SAVER Box > Car and a Boys Club 6 episode video. Neither item has been received, > nor have I heard anything back from John after several eMails and a > snail-mail. He perhaps didn't, in fact, receive my mail order, but it > would be nice to get a response, one way or another. Any help would be > greatly appreciated. Thanks! > > Regards, Randy Griggs

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12746	From: Peck	Date: 4/11/2001
Subject: Re: engine bulbs

Do NOT make the mistake of buying imported 1449 engine bulbs! As Tom noted, they are taller. They will melt diesel shells, and a steam-engine boiler front will usually not be able to be inserted in the boiler if you use an imported bulb. You MUST use US bulbs for this purpose. Unfortunately, many parts dealers cannot accomodate you with this! We can.....We carry ONLY US 1449 bulbs! <<> Most body melting in the 377-378 diesel, which is common (the melting, that > is) , is caused by the heat of the light bulbs and is found over and next > to the bulb locations. When operating this unit it is best to use original > 1447 (18 volt) bulbs. 18 volt bulbs produce less heat than 14 volt bulbs; > the original bulbs are shorter than the ones made today. It is also > possible to rotate the lamp brackets so the bulbs are as far away from the > body as possible. >> Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12747	From: Peck	Date: 4/11/2001
Subject: Re: roundhouse

A roundhouse????? Please check out my website (or my magazine ads over the past 2-3 years!) ! Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12748	From: erierailroad@aol.com	Date: 4/11/2001
Subject: S-Trains] DC CAN MOTOR CONVERSION KITS and DCC

>>They are smooth as glass >>and you won't believe how slow your 312 or 293 will creep around the layout Does this mean that now we can install DCC in our Flyer engines too? That would expand our operating capabilities quite a bit. Has any one installed DCC in there Flyer trains? Jack [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12749	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 4/11/2001
Subject: 336 Passenger cars

Hi I finnaly went and got a 336... I was going to pull the UP Budd set from AM.... Got to thinking and found set K5357W calls for a 960 2-962's And a 963 in chrome.... Found the set on E-bay but w/red band on it If I were to take the red band off would I have to chrome the cars?? Next option I found was a 3 car set of heavy wts 952 953 954 I know the 960's are the correct "Set" cars (Except) for the band any comments as to help in making a choice here The Heavy WTs I should get for about $400. EX cond The others are at 86 right now but shouldn't pass the $400.00 Plus the poss recrome If they need it Any ideas (except) buying both.... I don't see the hvwts come around that often........Mike S

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12750	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 4/11/2001
Subject: 336 cars

I for got would the 600 series with link work out as I have a bunch of them just need to convert the trucks.....Mike

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12751	From: Peck	Date: 4/11/2001
Subject: Re: PHM Baldwin

Just as a point of information, we still have 2 of the PHM Baldwin chassis units left in stock here. Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@... << From: Thomas@... Subject: Re: Pa. Heritage Models Gentlemen, Just as a point of interest the run has been completely sold out. With the Trainamster project, the new trolley chassis, 2 new flagstops,( all in S Gauge) plus at least 2 other unannounced untertakings, the Baldwin chassis has been removed from our production schedule. >>

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12752	From: Peck	Date: 4/11/2001
Subject: Re: misc. questions

<1. I HAVE SEEN LOTS OF MAIL ON USING TRADE NAMES.....IS AMERICANFLYERTRAINS....LEGAL? ******** Lionel owns the legal rights to the name. 2. I NEED 4 TO 6 KC FLATS....CHEAP TO REPAINT TO GO BEHIND MY ROYAL OLIVE DRAB LOCO....ARMY ********We can supply you ARMY green flatcars, with or without AF KC trucks, and with or without loads! 3. I NEED QUITE A FEW OF THE EARLY ISSUES OF "S" GUAGIAN PRIOR TO 73 AND "S" HERALD PRIOR TO 67..... *******Have some old SGH, but no SG left...they sold out. 4. I ALSO NEED SOME ALL ABOARD ACCESSORIES...TREES, TUNNELS, ETC....ALSO PICS OF THE SNOW PANELS SO I CAN REPAINT MY GREEN ONES....HAD A LOT OF NICE PICS.....BUT THE BUG GOT THEM > *********How about a set of 6 original snow panels......nothing on them; just the panels. Have a set of 6 available. Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12755	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 4/11/2001
Subject: Re: DC motor conversions

david_horn@b... wrote... >why hasn't/can't somebody offer affordably priced replacement motors >for our LTI AF diesels? David, you should be able to get the new (post 1990) LTI can motor from Lionel. It retails for $11.10, (at least it did a couple of years ago). The part # is 6-40-8007-120, Desc: MTR & GEAR ASSY A/F. (The part# above is taken from the plastic bag it came in.) I ordered it through a local Lionel dealer who runs his own shop. I've seen the old (pre 1990) motor for sale by parts dealers at local shows like GATS and TTOS meets. The last time I saw an unused one, the dealer wanted $8.98 for it, which seems about right given the list price of the newer motor. That is significant, because another local toy train shop owner (not the one above) wanted $39 for the same part. He insisted that was the list price, and he was not aware of the post-1990 motor upgrade, so I question his claim. Yes, his is supposedly an "authorized" Lionel service center. On the other hand, the dealer that sold me the new one for $11.10 assured me that $11.10 was the Lionel retail list price. He showed it to me in the official Lionel price list he had in front of him. He also told me that many dealers like to charge exorbitant mark-ups to these items, so beware! The pre-1990 motor (made by General Electric) is very prone to overheating, so if I were you I'd get the new one even if I was repairing a pre-1990 loco. Some modification of the mount is needed, but the newer motor is more efficient, and much less prone to overheating. It might be possible to get the mounting bracket for the newer motor. I tried, but LTI was in a big management shake-up at the time, and my order got lost in the shuffle (carnage?). Things at Lionel may be more stable now. Any Lionel dealer with a service department should be willing to look up the #s and order these parts for you. (They're always telling us how much they CARE, right?) Just don't let them charge you upwards of $40 for either of these motors. Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12756	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 4/11/2001
Subject: SMOKE Vs REVERSE

Anyone want to trade 2-3 smoke units for 2-3 E-units??? Contact me off list MIke S. Also have some other misc items to trade For Sale LTI Chessie gp-9? For sale LTI 370? GM gp-7 A 499 NH EP-5 With or without caboose Contact me off list Also a NP LTI NP ABA +5 CARS Set Plus A "B" WITH RAIL SOUNDS unit and Extra dining Car ALL CARS AND SETS GAURANTEED OFFEREDV TO YOU FIRST BEFOR E -BAY May have a 405 that has been recromed and decaled by portline hobby Thank You Contact asap Thank You Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12757	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 4/12/2001
Subject: SMOKE Vs REVERSE

For got to mention all are brand new in their boxes....The NP was sealed But that's a different story....Mike Any Items bought will get some great #2 Smoke Fluid

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12758	From: Rick Evans	Date: 4/12/2001
Subject: Diagram Problems......

The diagram seems fine at the S-Trains site.... Go to S-Trains@yahoogroups.com and see ifn' it looks better there. Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12759	From: bilfrazier@aol.com	Date: 4/12/2001
Subject: Re: DCC in Flyer

I've been using a MRC AD320 decoder in my Flyer Atlantic for quite some time now. Although I'm using a Flyer DC field, it should work just as well with a wound field and bridge rectifier. A couple of members of my club, the Bristol S Gaugers, have installed decoders in larger Flyer locos with universal motors. I believe they used Digitrax. Any decoder that will handle the high amperage of a Flyer motor should work fine, but the other brands are a bit more expensive. I'm planning on converting most of my Flyer eventually (when I get rich)! Bill Frazier > > Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 18:25:08 EDT > From: erierailroad@... > Subject: S-Trains] DC CAN MOTOR CONVERSION KITS and DCC > > >>They are smooth as glass > >>and you won't believe how slow your 312 or 293 will creep around the > layout > > Does this mean that now we can install DCC in our Flyer engines too? That > would expand our operating capabilities quite a bit. Has any one installed > DCC in there Flyer trains? > > Jack > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12760	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 4/12/2001
Subject: New York Sharks

Tom D wrote: > Also, I > seem to recall the folks in up state New York trying to get out the long > awaited New York Lighting stripe version. Don't know how that is going. > Tom D. <snip> > > How about a shark nose deisel? > > > > EJ Well, I don't really know the current status, but last year or so I was contacted by the CNYSG, apologizing and stating they were contacting those folks that had made a deposit with an intention of continuing the project. I belive it had been about 7 years since the Shark Project had been started. I wrote them back politely stating that I was no longer interested, and asked for my deposit back. A few weeks later I did receive my deposit. Rich G.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12761	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 4/12/2001
Subject: passenger cars

I prefer 96X satin silver or matching paint-scheme (e.g. NP) streamliners behind diesels and electics (EP-5 or GG1), and the 65X/95X heavyweights behind steamers. The aluminum 66X are nice too. Polish them up and they look good behind a chrome PA/PB. A chrome ABA with chrome 96X-style would be sharp too, but I haven't any personal experience with a set like that. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12762	From: sigma@ecn.ab.ca	Date: 4/12/2001
Subject: horn controller

Can anyone tell me how to hook up the controller for the horn on the Flyer B unit produced by Lionel? Joe Pereira email: sigma@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12763	From: Scott Holm	Date: 4/12/2001
Subject: Re: DC motor conversions

--- david_horn@... wrote: > why hasn't/can't somebody offer affordably priced replacement motors > for our LTI AF diesels? Better yet, how about a replacement motor for the original AF diesels? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12764	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 4/12/2001
Subject: Re: horn controller

If you have the railsounds button merely hook it in series with the track on either lead from the transformer. In other words, one lead from the transformer goes through the sound button. If you have both bell and horn, then you need 2 rail sounds buttons hooked up in series with each other (head to head or tail to tail) in the same transformer lead. With only one button you will need to get the polarity right for the function you want- one button will work only the bell or horn, depending on which of the button leads is toward the track (it's polarity sensitive because the button produces a DC pulse). You will notice that physically reversing ehich way the loco faces on the track will reverse the functions of the buttons. sigma@... wrote: > > Can anyone tell me how to hook up the controller for the horn on the Flyer > B unit produced by Lionel? > Joe Pereira > > email: sigma@... > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12765	From: gino restivo	Date: 4/12/2001
Subject: Re: horn controller

mornin' joe , it is easy to hook up ,you connect it in series between trans. and track ....either wire ! if the item has railsounds you will need 2 6-5906 controls or one control and lionel whislte type trans pushing the 5906 button you should get the horn if not .... reverse the red / black wires ..... do the same for the bell ( railsounds ) if you want to use it ....( seperate control ) please note **** some times they will function if the pick/ups or track get dirty , 6-5906 railsounds control's are aprox. $ 14.00 ea. most parts dealers will have them ...... i have found some " b " unit 's had their original " railsounds " boards replaced with a horn cicuit brd only and were sold at local shows in md / va / pa / year's ago ............. have fun , gino / gsr -----Original Message----- From: sigma@... <sigma@...> To: s-trains <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Date: Thursday, April 12, 2001 9:24 AM Subject: [S-Trains] horn controller >Can anyone tell me how to hook up the controller for the horn on the Flyer >B unit produced by Lionel? >Joe Pereira > > email: sigma@... > > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Shop online without a credit card http://www.rocketcash.com RocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12766	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 4/12/2001
Subject: horn/bell controller

Don't be surprised if you're more impressed with the bell than the horn. Even with the volume up, the horn is not as loud nor clear as the bell. Wish it were louder.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12767	From: Gerry Evans	Date: 4/12/2001
Subject: Election

Oh, for crying out loud! I got my NASG ballot in the mail today, and it came with a 1:64 hanging chad already installed. Recount! Demand a recount! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12768	From: donabrams	Date: 4/12/2001
Subject: diagrams

Here's the deal. I use Outlook Express for e-mail. The diagrams were scrambled and unusable. 1)Click on 'tools' 2)Click on 'options' 3)Click on the 'read' tab 4)Click on the 'font' button 5)Change the 'proportional font' to Monotype.com 6)Click on 'set as default' 7)Click on 'OK' 8)Click on 'OK' again I tried the other fixed-width fonts, but this seemed the easiest on the eye. Hope this helps. Don

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12769	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 4/12/2001
Subject: NASG

Hi does anyone know if there is anyone ALIVE at NASG hqts???? I sent in my $ and app 3 mo.'s ago I called once they said they were working on it ...Did I join during the rush season??? Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12770	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 4/12/2001
Subject: NASG

Not that I'm complaing but I'm going to miss another riviting arct. about light bulb screwing in by D. Dewey<g>.....Mike

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12771	From: busyboy	Date: 4/12/2001
Subject: trainman-terry@webtv.net

(trainman-terry@...) is no longer a valid address, so I am forced to go public and humiliate myself. This was part of an old thread that Terry Bunish took off-list. Terry, are you still there?? __________________________________________________________________ Terry: Remember this???!!! I took me a full year to the day to get back to you! I'm so organized! Even for me, this is a record. I tried this and it did not work out. Sam's had no reference. I have since used Sam's for other schematics. Thank you. Got any other ideas, or is this a movie prop now. (Too light to keep the boat anchored.) Regards, Chris Zizzo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Bunish" <trainman-terry@...> To: "busy-boy" <busy-boy@...> Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 11:41 PM Subject: Re: transformers > Hi Chris > You will need a schematic of the scope . It will tel what part # > and what voltage you should have on each lead . Do you know who mfg. > it It should be on the back of the unit Also needed will me the > model # Sams Photofact will most > likely have a schematic , They have schematics on every thing > sence WW2 They have a web add. I just typed Sams in find > field and it was on the 2nd page > Terry Bunish >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12772	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 4/12/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 979

In a message dated 04/12/2001 1:49:06 AM Mountain Daylight Time, S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes: > Does this mean that now we can install DCC in our Flyer engines too? That > would expand our operating capabilities quite a bit. Has any one installed > DCC in there Flyer trains? > > Jack > > > Yessireee Jack. We have five of them running DCC around a brand new Layout > that is still under construction here in Boise. That's how the can motor > project got started. Try it, You'll like it... > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12773	From: D Simon	Date: 4/13/2001
Subject: WTB 353 Circus engine

I dont know if this is ok for this list but here goes. I am looking to buy a 353 circus engine for my son. I dont need a mint one but would like it in good shape. I can redue the running geal and e unit if that helps. I also dont really want to pay some of the prices I have seen on Ebay. Greenburg puts them between 125 and 450. Is there any reasonable ones out there? thanks for any help. Dave _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12774	From: Eugene Steffan	Date: 4/13/2001
Subject: Re: Election

Hey! Mine was only dimpled!!!! Gerry Evans wrote: > Oh, for crying out loud! I got my NASG ballot in the mail today, and it came with a 1:64 hanging chad already installed. Recount! Demand a recount! > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12775	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 4/13/2001
Subject: Link to KC back to Link

What's the best way to re-convert Link coupler cars that were converted to knuckle coupler back to link? Thanks for your help. Dave [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12776	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 4/13/2001
Subject: Re: SHS 2-8-0

Dear Glen, It started to become a reality over 2 years ago when I saw the Spectrum 2-8-0 in HO. We had been working on a USRA 0-6-0 as our first steam engine, but when I examined that little jewel from Bachman, I knew it was something that could move "S" into the next level of modeling. Next we had to decide which 2-8-0. I quickly found out that more consolidations were built than all other steam engines combines. The PRR owned almost 10,000 consolidations, that is more steamers than the AT&SF had ever owned. We wanted a prototype that lasted till the 50's, was not a tea kettle but with over 60" drivers and had a straight boiler, one we could find lots of prototype documentation and lastly, one that could be kit bashed into other roads steam engine. The real problem with steam engine is that they were not only unique for each railroad, but once they were shopped, they slowly were modified by the railroad so that no two steam engines of the same class looked exactly the same. They moved the piping, added appliances, changed or modified cabs and tenders, changed pilots, etc. Like with all of our projects, we had lots of help with with this one. The B&O E-27 2-8-0 built by in 1905 by the Alco's Schenectady and Richmond Works was chosen as our prototype. Over 414 of these engines were built. Two article have been written (MR October 1945 by Mel Thornburgh and MM February 1998 by S Gauges own Geoff Graber) and later we were given the general arrangement drawings of the locomotive. We were able to find lots of photos and even an HO brass model. We decided not to produce the 1905 as delivered version as it had a different cab, appliances and Stephenson valve gear which was changed in the 20's and 30's, but settled on the E-27ca. We are awaiting for the final set of assembly drawings which puts us about 18 months ahead of when we announce the F-3s. We are hoping to start tooling this summer with delivery next year. Don T. Glenn Ritter wrote: > Hi Don, > > When will the 2-8-0 start to become a reality? > > Glenn > > Robin Thompson wrote: > Dear Russ, > The boiler, steam chest, cab, chassis, tender > trucks, tender underframe are all die-cast in Zamac®. > The detail parts are either lost wax brass or ABS. > The piping is either Music wire, Celcon® or lost > wax brass castings. The > tender is ABS. > Regarding the price, I am hoping to keep it > in the $399 to $499 range. But, for us to do that, > we will have to > make (and sell) a bunch of them. > Don -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New 2nd run reefers are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12777	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 4/13/2001
Subject: Re: Link to KC back to Link

Lots of guys on this list could answer this question. What are you all doing, fellas, dyeing easter eggs??? Ordering can motors from Steve??? Reconverting from KC to LC: 1. Remove knuckle coupler. 2. Reshape coupler arm if necessary (it usually is) with long nosed pliers. 3. Make sure that link coupler rotates freely around pin. Remove weight by pushing out from the smaller side. If coupler does not rotate freely around pin, file pin hole with round needle file to enlarge hole slightly. 4. Place coupler on pin, pin in hole in truck arm. Place this assembly with pin head flat on hard flat steel surface (anvil, vise, etc.). Insert pin shaft into hole in link coupler tool ( available from parts dealers for under $10). Hammer link coupler tool to peen edges of pin lip around hole in truck arm, which will hold the coupler in place. 5. Replace coupler weight. 6. Adjust coupler height and direction. if it is too tight, stick a screwdriver between the coupler top and the arm and twist a little. 7. It may help to remove the wheelset nearest the coupler. I sometimes chuck the link coupler tool in my arbor press, but that thing tends to hurt my back. Doug Peck swears by the Brakeman's riveter tool for this job, but I haven't tried that. I enjoy hitting things with a hammer. Repro link couplers vary greatly in appearance. Some are downright grotesque looking. However, I have had good results using repro pins, and little luck trying to reuse original pins. '46 and '47 weightless link couplers may have a larger diameter pin. It's best to use original '46 and '47 pins (they are blackened) with those. Good luck with it. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12778	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/13/2001
Subject: MTH Coal Loader, mine's Here!!!!

Hi all, Well, it finally arrived, and on a day when someone was home!! No "left on the porch and the local urchin's swiped it!" Neat-O!! much lighter than I expected, but looks great. There'll be no confusing MTH parts for ACG parts, the roof is different, lighter, the clamshell has other things that are "unique" -- interesting shield around the coil. Does give it a more plausible "industrial" look than a honking big coil on a bucket look of the original. The button is a copy of ACG's, but different too, the lettering recess is much sharper, and deeper. Mine has a funny "whaaa-whaa" to it as the bucket lowers, hope it isn't a sign of anything, much quieter and constant going up. Yep, it is a bit sloooow, probably more realistic, but! Well, Happy Easter all, I probably will be on the road during Sunday Chat time, so have a good one! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12779	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/13/2001
Subject: Re: Link to KC back to Link

Some of us have a life!! <G> Tom's list works, but I don't like to take off the weights, that old plastic doesn't like stress! Get a small block of metal to put on your flat hard surface that is taller than the weight sticks out, and put your pin on that to "whack at it good." If you have a whole lot of these to do, you could fasten the block to your flat surface so it doesn't move around. (any number of methods, a screw, solder, braze, weld, rivet, glue. . . ) S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12780	From: Jerry Riechert	Date: 4/13/2001
Subject: looking for parts

I'm trying to identify several scenic items from my childhood and find parts for them The first is a dark green plastic streetlight, removeable top is 8-sided white translucent plastic with dark green lid, uses screw base light bulb ~ 5/8 inches high with base ~ 3/16 inch diameter: Need bulbs- 18V or so to match my AF transformer. I suppose I could connect several in series if only lower voltage bulbs are available. Several of the tops are slightly melted and could stand to be replaced too. The second is several double sided white frame billboards ~ 4 1/8 x 2 3/4 inches. One has Juicy Fruit/Pepsi Cola and the other has Gleem toothpaste and Minute Maid orange juice. Need 1 flat white foot and 4 light fixtures that fasten over the top with a light shining down each side. Any info is greatly appreciated. -- Jerry Riechert

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12781	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 4/13/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, April 15, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12782	From: sgriggs@umich.edu	Date: 4/13/2001
Subject: Re: MTH Coal Loader, mine's Here!!!!

I noticed that piece around the clamshell coil, too. I think it is a heat shield. Because the operation of this accesory is so much slower than the Gilbert version, the clamshell solenoid is energized for a much longer time and can get pretty warm. I think MTH recognized this and decided they needed a way to keep people from directly touching the hot coil. I suspect this may have been a late addition (maybe the cause for the delay from the release date?) If you look at the photo on the box, you'll notice that the unit does not have this extra piece on the clamshell solenoid. You can tell the box photo is an MTH version because you can see the can motor. Just speculation, though. Neat accessory at a terrific price. --- In S-Trains@y..., "David Dewey" <djdewey@c...> wrote: > Hi all, > Well, it finally arrived, and on a day when someone was home!! No "left > on the porch and the local urchin's swiped it!" > Neat-O!! much lighter than I expected, but looks great. There'll be no > confusing MTH parts for ACG parts, the roof is different, lighter, the > clamshell has other things that are "unique" -- interesting shield around > the coil. Does give it a more plausible "industrial" look than a honking big > coil on a bucket look of the original. The button is a copy of ACG's, but > different too, the lettering recess is much sharper, and deeper. > Mine has a funny "whaaa-whaa" to it as the bucket lowers, hope it isn't > a sign of anything, much quieter and constant going up. Yep, it is a bit > sloooow, probably more realistic, but! > Well, Happy Easter all, I probably will be on the road during Sunday > Chat time, so have a good one! > S' > David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12783	From: Rick Evans	Date: 4/14/2001
Subject: Re: Link to KC back to Link

I have had good luck doing a few of these. After reading Tom J.'s post,...I think I'm doing it "bass-ackwards"!! Hmmm...Let's see,....I believe that I tapped the flat head of the pin into the coupler, which was resting on the link tool which was resting on a solid flat piece of metal. I think Tom said he taps the link tool, pushing the coupler on to the pin,...that right Tom?? Anyway,...Tom's way sounds easier then the way that I've been doing it!! Rick (get a bigger hammer!) Evans.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12784	From: Peck	Date: 4/14/2001
Subject: Re: misc.

(1) Repro link couplers and pins are readily available, but you cannot install them without a tool to do so. We have both an economy model (for Tom and his hammer<g>), and the Brakeman's Riveter (for those who want a great multi-purpose tool, and plan to make some significant riveting, etc, use of it). (2) For the streetlights, you want 1447 clear bulbs (18v). Available. (3) Those billboards were Plasticville.........very fragile, and not often seen intact. Try joining the Plasticville Mail list. Several dealers on there. <The first is a dark green plastic streetlight, removeable top is 8-sided white translucent plastic with dark green lid, uses screw base light bulb ~ 5/8 inches high with base ~ 3/16 inch diameter: Need bulbs- 18V or so to match my AF transformer. I suppose I could connect several in series if only lower voltage bulbs are available. Several of the tops are slightly melted and could stand to be replaced too. The second is several double sided white frame billboards ~ 4 1/8 x 2 3/4 inches. One has Juicy Fruit/Pepsi Cola and the other has Gleem toothpaste and Minute Maid orange juice. Need 1 flat white foot and 4 light fixtures that fasten over the top with a light shining down each side. > Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12785	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 4/14/2001
Subject: Re: Link to KC back to Link

In a message dated 4/13/01 5:40:56 PM, jarcho@... writes: << I sometimes chuck the link coupler tool in my arbor press, but that thing tends to hurt my back. Doug Peck swears by the Brakeman's riveter tool for this job, but I haven't tried that. >> I have the riveter's tool and can recommend it highly. You obtain a very neat factory-installed "look" when used. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12786	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 4/14/2001
Subject: 336's

Did all the 336's come with knuckle couplers ??? Thanks Mike S

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12787	From: gino restivo	Date: 4/14/2001
Subject: Re: 336's

yes , from k 335 ( 1 st ) 336 , 21139 , 21140 all had original k / cplr's gsr -----Original Message----- From: anormal1@... <anormal1@...> To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Date: Saturday, April 14, 2001 4:02 PM Subject: [S-Trains] 336's > Did all the 336's come with knuckle couplers ??? Thanks Mike S > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > NetZero Platinum No Banner Ads and Unlimited Access Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month! http://www.netzero.net

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12788	From: busyboy	Date: 4/14/2001
Subject: Re: WTB 353 Circus engine

Dave Simon wrote: >I am looking to buy a 353 circus engine for my son. You indicate that: You are looking for an operator, not a collectible, You are willing to do work on it, You don't want to pay collector's prices. Consider this. Browse around train shows or e-Bay for a Royal Blue or Silver Bullet (preferably painted, not chrome) as well as a circus engine. Then paint it! It doesn't have to be red either. Yellow is nice. I just saw one in pinkish lavender with animal decals. Once you spray on new paint you are forever free of the collectibilty virus. Superdetail it. Letter it with transfer type. It doesn't have to say "American Flyer Circus" either. How about "Simon & Sons Super Circus"? While you're at it, find some repaintable stock cars. These are great for all your animal acts. And in addition to finding usable New Haven style passenger cars, find some of the Alco set streamliners in lousy paint. There are bargains in these all over e-Bay. Then paint them all in loud circus colors. Mix styles of cars. Find 2 or 3 log car flats with those smooth logs. Dress them up to be your tentpoles. If you want a circus train, there are loads of Flyer stuff to make a great one. Get free of the tyranny of duplicating the A.C. Gilbert train and fall instead under the spell of A.C. Gilbert the man, who believed in imagination and innovation. Good luck, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12789	From: Roger Zuerlein	Date: 4/14/2001
Subject: Re: http://www.boysrailroadclub.com

All: > > Does anyone know John Huster at: john@... ? I sent >John > > an order (via regular mail) back on Jan. 13, 2001 for a B&O TIME-SAVER >Box I have ordred two of the B&O Timesavers from John. Recieved them in short order. Have had not problems with this supplier. Recieved a flyer concerning six different box cars he is producing with SHS. I assume he is alive and well. Roger Zuerlein >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12790	From: The_maurers	Date: 4/14/2001
Subject: Re: 919 Coal Dump Car

Now that my MTH coal loader is here, it's time to put my 919 to good use. A few years ago there was an article in S Gaugian about wiring up the 919 so the dump action wasn't so violent. My question is, what is the general feeling out there on the necessity of doing this alternate wiring? I'm hoping I'll get some responses along the lines of .."after several years of operation using the Fixed voltage terminal, there have been no casualties" because who knows how long it will take me to find that article again. I'm using a 2B for power, and the 919 is in E+ condition. Thanks. Rich Maurer Auburn, AL

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12791	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 4/14/2001
Subject: Re: 919 Coal Dump Car

The article is the Roundhouse in the May-June '99 S Gaugian, "The Common Rail System and Action Cars". The problem with the 919 is that the hinges are extremely fragile. I don't use #2 transformers and don't know how the car would perform with them. But in general, it's a good idea to use the lowest voltage that will operate the car. Higher voltages from large transformers make it snap violently open. Another thing you can try, which is not mentioned in the article, is to wire several 1 ohm 10 watt wire wound resistors from Radio shack into the circuit between the transformer and the button or the button and the third rail. Experiment to find how many bive you the best result. With a 75 watt transformer, not many should be needed. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12792	From: Rick Evans	Date: 4/14/2001
Subject: Circus trains......

Chris has some good suggestions here....After I saw some circus boxcars on ebay,...I thought that I would start looking for some old, beat up Flyer boxcars/stock cars and re-paint 'em to go with my one circus flat, and one coach. I'll probably do the same with an older "bullet" style loco when I find one, (since I don't have a circus loco!) and maybe re-paint a caboose. Soooo many fun options!!! I'm also looking for a 651 baggage to re-paint for my Silver Bullet set,...got a nicked-up one on ebay, but it took a good hit while on it's way here!! Might be able to glue the big pieces back on,...this will be a good one to practice on. Rick (Life IS a circus!) Evans **((( Consider this. Browse around train shows or e-Bay for a Royal Blue or Silver Bullet (preferably painted, not chrome) as well as a circus engine. Then paint it! It doesn't have to be red either. Yellow is nice. I just saw one in pinkish lavender with animal decals. Once you spray on new paint you are forever free of the collectibilty virus. Superdetail it. Letter it with transfer type. It doesn't have to say "American Flyer Circus" either. How about "Simon & Sons Super Circus"? While you're at it, find some repaintable stock cars. These are great for all your animal acts. And in addition to finding usable New Haven style)))***

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12793	From: Rick Evans	Date: 4/14/2001
Subject: Easter train.....

Been out trying to find a Easter tree,....Guess I'll settle for runinng our Easter train around the fireplace!!! I have quite a few 931 T&P gondolas that my daughter and I load up with her plastic Easter eggs,...found some little Easter figurines to add to the train this year. Happy Easter to all!! Rick (Easter Bunny Calif. style....BBQ'd!) Evans

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12794	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 4/14/2001
Subject: CIRCUS TRAINS

I think a depresser flat would look good with a cage in the center and bales of hay on the enda also the 945 work car has a good look to it ....Mike

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12795	From: Scott Kubel	Date: 4/14/2001
Subject: New to S-Guage

Hi I have decided to add a small S-guage layout to my Lionel/Marx layout. The whole layout is not scale and leans towards toylike. I have never owned or operated S-guage equipment before and I have a couple of questions if someone can help me out: I am using AF track. What size screw is best to hold the track down? My platform is plywood covered with carpeting to deaden the sound. Does anyone still make end of track bumpers for S-guage or do I need to look for some vintage AF? Thanks for your help. You can e-mail me off line if you like sckubel@... Scott Kubel TCA #99-48731

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12796	From: Walt Danylak	Date: 4/15/2001
Subject: Re: looking for parts

--- In S-Trains@y..., "Jerry Riechert" <riechert@q...> wrote: I'm trying to identify several scenic items from my childhood and find parts for them. The first is a dark green plastic streetlight, removeable top is 8-sided white translucent plastic with dark green lid, uses screw base light bulb ~ 5/8 inches high with base ~ 3/16 inch diameter: Need bulbs- 18V or so to match my AF transformer. I suppose I could connect several in series if only lower voltage bulbs are available. Several of the tops are slightly melted and could stand to be replaced too. The second is several double sided white frame billboards ~ 4 1/8 x 2 3/4 inches. One has Juicy Fruit/Pepsi Cola and the other has Gleem toothpaste and Minute Maid orange juice. Need 1 flat white foot and 4 light fixtures that fasten over the top with a light shining down each side. Any info is greatly appreciated. Jerry Riechert Jerry, I don't know about the street light, but the billboard sounds like the one that was included with some brands of Post(?) cereal in the 50's. I can remember having a few of these. I don't know where you could purchase parts, but I would try some of the Plasticville dealers. Walt Danylak

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12797	From: Bob	Date: 4/15/2001
Subject: Smokin' Diesels ?

Dear Group, Happy holidays to all ! I have a question. I know that A.F. made plenty of steamers that smoked,but did A.F. ever make a diesel that smoked ?? Please post or e-mail me with any and all answers.Thank you,enjoy this wonderful day!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12798	From: d.garber@home.com	Date: 4/15/2001
Subject: Smokin' Diesels

Only when the motor windings over heat<g> and that is to often because of poor design or lack of maintenance.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12799	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 4/15/2001
Subject: NASG REGIONAL STATES

Hi John, I have received 53 ballots back already. 1700 to go. Some people in OH have already voted either Eastern, Central or all Regions. Maybe the NASG regions would be helpful. The NASG By-Laws state in Article IV item 1. A. Eastern- AL, CT, DE, FL, GA, KY, ME, MD, MA, MS, NH, NJ, NY, NC, OH, PA, RI, SC, TN, VT, VA, WV, DC, Maritime provinces of Canada, Quebec, Ontario and Europe. B. Central- AR, IL, IN, IA, KS, LA, MI, MN, MO, NB, ND, OK, SD, TX, WI, C. Western- AK, AZ, CA, CO, HI, ID, MT, NM, NV, OR, UT, WA, WY, and the Provinces of Aberta, British Columbia, Manitoba, Northwest Territories, Saskatchewan, the Yukon and Australia. Staying on the NPSG branchline of NASG track, Glenn Ritter, NASG Secretary John Oglesby wrote: Dear Glenn, I just got my NASG ballot and I was wondering how is one to know which region to vote? Thanks, John O. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12800	From: Rick Evans	Date: 4/15/2001
Subject: Re: Smokin' Diesels ?

"Bob" wrote: ***(((( Dear Group Happy holidays to all ! I have a question. I know that A.F. made plenty of steamers that smoked, but did A.F. ever make a diesel that smoked ?? Please post or e-mail me with any and all answers. Thank you, enjoy this wonderful day!)))*** Now don't anyone quote me on this,....but to MY knowledge (what there is of it!!),...I don't believe that AF made any smokin' diesels. Well,...maybe the 355 Baldwin,..but it WASN'T supposed to!! Rick "stepped on another Easter egg!" Evans.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12801	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 4/15/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, April 15, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12802	From: Jerry Riechert	Date: 4/15/2001
Subject: Re: misc.

S-Trains@yahoogroups.com wrote: The streetlight bulbs I'm looking for are about 2/3 the size of the 1447 bulbs. > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 09:59:16 -0400 > From: "Peck" <portlines@...> > Subject: Re: misc. > > (2) For the streetlights, you want 1447 clear bulbs (18v). Available. > > <The first is a dark green plastic streetlight, removeable top is 8-sided > white translucent plastic with dark green lid, uses screw base light bulb ~ > 5/8 inches high with base ~ 3/16 inch diameter: Need bulbs- 18V or so to > match my AF transformer. I suppose I could connect several in series if only > lower voltage bulbs are available. Several of the tops are slightly melted > and could stand to be replaced too. > > Doug Peck > Port Lines Hobby Supplies > 6 Storeybrooke Drive > Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 > Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST > 978-465-8798 > 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). > http://www.portlines.com > portlines@... > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 11:21:01 EDT > From: rbubeck327@... > Subject: Re: Link to KC back to Link > > In a message dated 4/13/01 5:40:56 PM, jarcho@... writes: > > << I sometimes chuck the link coupler tool in my arbor press, but that thing > tends to hurt my back. Doug Peck swears by the Brakeman's riveter tool for > this job, but I haven't tried that. >> > > I have the riveter's tool and can recommend it highly. You obtain a very neat > factory-installed "look" when used. > > RB > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 16:02:48 EDT > From: anormal1@... > Subject: 336's > > Did all the 336's come with knuckle couplers ??? Thanks Mike S > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 16:34:12 -0400 > From: "gino restivo" <lastman@...> > Subject: Re: 336's > > yes , from k 335 ( 1 st ) 336 , 21139 , 21140 > all had original k / cplr's > gsr > -----Original Message----- > From: anormal1@... <anormal1@...> > To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> > Date: Saturday, April 14, 2001 4:02 PM > Subject: [S-Trains] 336's > > > Did all the 336's come with knuckle couplers ??? Thanks Mike S > > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > NetZero Platinum > No Banner Ads and Unlimited Access > Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month! > http://www.netzero.net > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 5 > Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 17:17:04 -0400 > From: busyboy <busyboy@...> > Subject: re: WTB 353 Circus engine > > Dave Simon wrote: > >I am looking to buy a 353 circus engine for my son. > > You indicate that: > You are looking for an operator, not a collectible, > You are willing to do work on it, > You don't want to pay collector's prices. > > Consider this. Browse around train shows or e-Bay for a Royal Blue or > Silver Bullet (preferably painted, not chrome) as well as a circus engine. > Then paint it! It doesn't have to be red either. Yellow is nice. I just > saw one in pinkish lavender with animal decals. > > Once you spray on new paint you are forever free of the collectibilty virus. > Superdetail it. Letter it with transfer type. It doesn't have to say > "American Flyer Circus" either. How about "Simon & Sons Super Circus"? > While you're at it, find some repaintable stock cars. These are great for > all your animal acts. And in addition to finding usable New Haven style > passenger cars, find some of the Alco set streamliners in lousy paint. > There are bargains in these all over e-Bay. Then paint them all in loud > circus colors. Mix styles of cars. Find 2 or 3 log car flats with those > smooth logs. Dress them up to be your tentpoles. > > If you want a circus train, there are loads of Flyer stuff to make a great > one. Get free of the tyranny of duplicating the A.C. Gilbert train and fall > instead under the spell of A.C. Gilbert the man, who believed in imagination > and innovation. > > Good luck, > Chris Zizzo > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 6 > Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 06:44:26 -0700 > From: "Roger Zuerlein" <rzuerlein@...> > Subject: Re: http://www.boysrailroadclub.com > > All: > > > > Does anyone know John Huster at: john@... ? I sent > >John > > > an order (via regular mail) back on Jan. 13, 2001 for a B&O TIME-SAVER > >Box > > I have ordred two of the B&O Timesavers from John. Recieved them in short > order. Have had not problems with this supplier. Recieved a flyer > concerning six different box cars he is producing with SHS. I assume he is > alive and well. > > Roger Zuerlein > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 7 > Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 18:09:03 -0700 > From: "The_maurers" <The_Maurers@...> > Subject: Re: 919 Coal Dump Car > > Now that my MTH coal loader is here, it's time to put my 919 to good use. A > few years ago there was an article in S Gaugian about wiring up the 919 so > the dump action wasn't so violent. My question is, what is the general > feeling out there on the necessity of doing this alternate wiring? I'm > hoping I'll get some responses along the lines of .."after several years of > operation using the Fixed voltage terminal, there have been no casualties" > because who knows how long it will take me to find that article again. I'm > using a 2B for power, and the 919 is in E+ condition. > > Thanks. > > Rich Maurer > Auburn, AL > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 8 > Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 19:29:33 -0400 > From: jarcho@... > Subject: Re: 919 Coal Dump Car > > The article is the Roundhouse in the May-June '99 S Gaugian, "The Common > Rail System and Action Cars". > > The problem with the 919 is that the hinges are extremely fragile. I don't > use #2 transformers and don't know how the car would perform with them. > But in general, it's a good idea to use the lowest voltage that will > operate the car. Higher voltages from large transformers make it snap > violently open. > > Another thing you can try, which is not mentioned in the article, is to > wire several 1 ohm 10 watt wire wound resistors from Radio shack into the > circuit between the transformer and the button or the button and the third > rail. Experiment to find how many bive you the best result. With a 75 > watt transformer, not many should be needed. > > Tom Jarcho > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 9 > Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 01:17:58 -0000 > From: "Rick Evans" <comic@...> > Subject: Circus trains...... > > Chris has some good suggestions here....After I saw some circus > boxcars on ebay,...I thought that I would start looking for some old, > beat up Flyer boxcars/stock cars and re-paint 'em to go with my one > circus flat, and one coach. I'll probably do the same with an > older "bullet" style loco when I find one, (since I don't have a > circus loco!) and maybe re-paint a caboose. Soooo many fun options!!! > > I'm also looking for a 651 baggage to re-paint for my Silver Bullet > set,...got a nicked-up one on ebay, but it took a good hit while on > it's way here!! Might be able to glue the big pieces back on,...this > will be a good one to practice on. > > Rick (Life IS a circus!) Evans > > **((( Consider this. Browse around train shows or e-Bay for a Royal > Blue or Silver Bullet (preferably painted, not chrome) as well as a > circus engine. Then paint it! It doesn't have to be red either. > Yellow is nice. I just saw one in pinkish lavender with animal > decals. Once you spray on new paint you are forever free of the > collectibilty virus. Superdetail it. Letter it with transfer type. > It doesn't have to say "American Flyer Circus" either. How > about "Simon & Sons Super Circus"? While you're at it, find some > repaintable stock cars. These are great for all your animal acts. > And in addition to finding usable New Haven style)))*** > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 10 > Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 01:25:09 -0000 > From: "Rick Evans" <comic@...> > Subject: Easter train..... > > Been out trying to find a Easter tree,....Guess I'll settle for > runinng our Easter train around the fireplace!!! I have quite a few > 931 T&P gondolas that my daughter and I load up with her plastic > Easter eggs,...found some little Easter figurines to add to the train > this year. > > Happy Easter to all!! > > Rick (Easter Bunny Calif. style....BBQ'd!) Evans > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 11 > Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 22:13:02 EDT > From: anormal1@... > Subject: CIRCUS TRAINS > > I think a depresser flat would look good with a cage in the center and bales > of hay on the enda also the 945 work car has a good look to it ....Mike > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 12 > Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 21:15:17 -0500 > From: "Scott Kubel" <sckubel@...> > Subject: New to S-Guage > > Hi > > I have decided to add a small S-guage layout to my Lionel/Marx layout. The > whole layout is not scale and leans towards toylike. I have never owned or > operated S-guage equipment before and I have a couple of questions if > someone can help me out: > > I am using AF track. What size screw is best to hold the track down? My > platform is plywood covered with carpeting to deaden the sound. > Does anyone still make end of track bumpers for S-guage or do I need to look > for some vintage AF? > > Thanks for your help. You can e-mail me off line if you like > sckubel@... > > Scott Kubel > TCA #99-48731 > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Jerry Riechert

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12803	From: Peck	Date: 4/15/2001
Subject: Re: Bumpers

We carry reproduction bumpers in green, red, and black. Green and black are also available with yellow Warning Stripes painted diagonally on the "bumper bar". This makes a world of difference in their appearance! Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12804	From: Peck	Date: 4/15/2001
Subject: Re: Roundhouse column

<The article is the Roundhouse in the May-June '99 S Gaugian, "The Common Rail System and Action Cars". > Tom--- We REALLY need to have a good comprehensive INDEX to all your RH columns, as well as Tom Barker's previous columns! What a great help that would be! Anyone out there ever attempted one???? I started to do so MANY years ago, but never kept it up. Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12805	From: M.McConnell	Date: 4/15/2001
Subject: Street lights/Billboards

The first item sounds a lot like the street lights available from "Life-Like". They are still available in a blister-pak of 3 lights at any good hobby store that caters to 0-27. They definitely need to run on a lower voltage. I run mine on a separate transformer set to about 12 volts. The light bulbs are still available, check at the hobby store - they're in a blister pak too. They use the same miniature screw base used in old strings of Christmas lights. As for the melted lids - I've not found a way to fix them, I save the bases, sockets and poles for repair parts - and just replace them with new lamps. The billboards are Plasticville. I've made some extra feet from popsicle sticks cut to size - and drill holes for the tabs on the billboard frame to fit in - then paint them white. I suppose you could buy the lights from a good Plasticville parts dealer. Repro billboard inserts are available in many designs. >Message: 8 > Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 15:58:48 -0700 > From: "Jerry Riechert" <riechert@...> >Subject: looking for parts > >I'm trying to identify several scenic items from my childhood and find parts >for them > >The first is a dark green plastic streetlight, removeable top is 8-sided >white translucent plastic with dark green lid, uses screw base light bulb ~ >5/8 inches high with base ~ 3/16 inch diameter: Need bulbs- 18V or so to >match my AF transformer. I suppose I could connect several in series if only >lower voltage bulbs are available. Several of the tops are slightly melted >and could stand to be replaced too. > >The second is several double sided white frame billboards ~ 4 1/8 x 2 3/4 >inches. One has Juicy Fruit/Pepsi Cola and the other has Gleem toothpaste >and Minute Maid orange juice. Need 1 flat white foot and 4 light fixtures >that fasten over the top with a light shining down each side. > >Any info is greatly appreciated. >-- >Jerry Riechert

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12806	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 4/15/2001
Subject: Re: NASG REGIONAL STATES

Hi Gerry, No. I was surprised that some came back already and were incorrect. Actually once mailed I can only count what is correct You can wait til May and mail them with the Dispatch survey. Glenn Gerry wrote: GLENN: I didn't send my ballot right back, but, instead, put it in my x-up file for May because part of the information that came with the ballot said there was to be a survey in the next (April) "Dispatch" which we were to return with our ballots. Did I miss something? Gerry

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12807	From: Lee Johnson	Date: 4/15/2001
Subject: Re: NASG REGIONAL STATES

on 4/15/01 11:12 AM, Glenn Ritter at gartrain@... wrote: > Maybe the NASG regions would be helpful. > > The NASG By-Laws state in Article IV item 1. > > A. Eastern- AL, .... Although checking the NASG By-Laws for the listing of your state vs. the NASG Region, an alternate method of checking your region is to note the last character of your NASG membership number that is on the mailing label of the envelope in which the ballot was mailed. The last character will be an E, C, or W for Eastern Region, Central Region, or Western Region respectively. Lee

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12808	From: Peck	Date: 4/16/2001
Subject: Re: Smokin' diesels

<<I know that A.F. made plenty of steamers that smoked,but did A.F. ever make a diesel that smoked ?? >> Yes----they're called Baldwins <VBG> !!! Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12809	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 4/16/2001
Subject: SSL&S Mogul

There are some new test shots of the SSL&S Mogul at their web site: http://www.sscaleloco.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12810	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 4/16/2001
Subject: LC conversion

Thanks everyone for your help. It sounds like the Brakeman's is the way to go if this, and/or other riveting, is something you plan to do routinely. Otherwise for the occasional LC the ~$10 tool has worked well for many folks. In my case there are a couple of 661's that I want to reconvert to LC's, so the latter ought to work. Some say original pins as long as they have enough "meat" protruding through the sheet metal tab are OK, others say repro pins work fine. Perhaps both do. I think I'll try both while I'm at it. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12811	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 4/16/2001
Subject: SHS 2-8-0 Consolidation

It's great to hear S-Helper is coming out with a steamer! If the quality is anything like their other products we're all in for a treat. Don, is there any chance you'd produce this in a Great Northern paint scheme? I've seen them in HO and N-scale and have always wanted one in S. It has black, silver, green, with a red/rust roof. It looks great, and would be a welcomed change to black! Second to that would be a similar Southern version. Third would be Western Maryland (hey it looks good, and the real one still runs). Last, but not least, Reading, I for one will not count the rivets and compare yours to the actual engine(s). But then again the fun in them is in running them, at least for me. Thanks. Great Northern http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1125725461 Southern http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1129490516 Western Maryland (poor photo) http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1133963340 Reading http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1125165373 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12812	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 4/16/2001
Subject: AF Track screws

I use AF track and have found 3/4" screws with an 1/8" hole drilled in the tie work best. The screws can be Gargraves (nice because they're black and have Phillips head) or Home Depot type 6x32 wood screws. The 1/8' hole allows the screw to pass through the end of the tie without engaging the sheet metal of the tie itself. That helps when it comes to leveling the track with the screws (which is one advantage to screws vs nails/brads). However, in a pinch/hurry, you can drive the screw right through the existing holes without enlarging them to 1/8". I start with the first right hole and alternate ties up each full straight or curved section. That way at points where sections meet you have a nice left-right combination across the joint. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12813	From: Tom Robichaud	Date: 4/16/2001
Subject: Re: Smokin' Diesels ?

As far as I know, no, AF never made a smoking diesel. But, is there one running around? Yes. I have a Lionel GP9 that has a MTH smoke unit it it. It's a tight fit but a fit. I have had it running on our club layout (Bristol S-gauge Club) at shows a number of times. it gets some strange looks. Tommy "Bob" <YAZFACTS@...> on 04/15/2001 11:02:52 AM To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com cc: Subject: [S-Trains] Smokin' Diesels ? Dear Group, Happy holidays to all ! I have a question. I know that A.F. made plenty of steamers that smoked,but did A.F. ever make a diesel that smoked ?? Please post or e-mail me with any and all answers.Thank you,enjoy this wonderful day! S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12814	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 4/16/2001
Subject: Smokin'diesels

I saw a set of O gauge E-8 diesels running on a modular layout at a train show that had smoke units in them. The smoke units were closely synchronized and sent columns of smoke into the air as the diesels started up -- they didn't smoke continuously. I forgot to find out how this was done -- with DCC, or that the units were somehow designed to smoke only when the locos started or accellerated, or whatever. The sound and smoke together were quite impressive. Does anyone know more about these diesel smoke units? It would be fun to have a set of beat up Alco PA's, heavily weathered, that smoked like mad, perhaps running nose to tail as the S.P. used to run them. PA's were known as heavy smokers. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12815	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 4/16/2001
Subject: New file uploaded to S-Trains

Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the S-Trains group. File : /Smoking S-gauge GP9.JPG Uploaded by : trobicha@... Description : Smoking GP9 You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/Smoking%20S-gauge%20GP9.JPG To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, trobicha@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12816	From: Tom Robichaud	Date: 4/16/2001
Subject: Re: New file uploaded to S-Trains

Yo: As you can see, I posted a picture of my Smoking S-Gauge GP9. Tommy S-Trains@yahoogroups.com on 04/16/2001 10:46:16 AM To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com cc: Subject: [S-Trains] New file uploaded to S-Trains Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the S-Trains group. File : /Smoking S-gauge GP9.JPG Uploaded by : trobicha@... Description : Smoking GP9 You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/Smoking%20S-gauge%20GP9.JPG To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, trobicha@... S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12817	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 4/16/2001
Subject: Circus Train

Following the thread on circus trains, here are a few ideas for you to try. First a note about custom lettering. I get inexpensive single-colored (red, blue, or green) decals made at one of the Kinko's in Rochester. Print your custom text in black and white on your printer at home. Take your printed sheet with a sheet of decal paper (from Micro-Mark) to Kinko's and ask them to copy it in your color of choice (red, green, or blue) onto your sheet of decal paper. Voila - a sheet of red labels for about $ 0.15 copying cost. Not all Kinkos do this single color copying. Now a couple of cars that I have done. My first was to take a 715 Vehicle Unloading Car (which was already in circus red and yellow) and repaint a Manoil gasoline truck in yellow with red 'AMERICAN FLYER CIRCUS' dry transfers. The Manoil truck is the same size and shape as the Manoil coupe that came on the unloading car. I now had a circus water truck. Next I took a 607 Work and Boom Car to use as a 'Dumbo's Flying Circus' caboose. This car has a nice large platform area for mounting figures once you remove the toolbox. Disneykins are Disney characters (and others?) in 1/64? scale. I put Dumbo, Timothy, the ringmaster, and Dumbo's mother on the car. The car was painted yellow and lettered in red with 'DUMBO'S FLYING CIRCUS'. You can see this car on page 13 of the October 1998 DISPATCH, although it was attributed to Gary Ippolito. The Lionel 6473 HORSE TRANSPORT CAR is a stock car which has four horses heads that bob in and out through open windows as the car moves. Kids love to see the horses moving in and out. Lionel put this car out in green with Flyer trucks a few years ago. I thought about painting the green car yellow, but then saw the 6473 Lionel version in yellow which made it easier. I painted the horses heads as zebras and now need to get a red decal made to label the car as the 'ZEBRA' TRANSPORT CAR. The latest conversion was to take a 970 Walking Brakeman boxcar chassis (with the vibrating mechanism) and a yellow 639 boxcar body to make a circus walking chimp car. I used my Dremel with a 1/8" straight side cutting (milling?) bit to cut a slot in the top of the car. I taped the Dremel down horizontally on the bench to try and keep it at the right height, set the variable speed control as low as possible ( to keep from melting the plastic car), and moved the car backwards and forwards on its side to cut the slot. It was slow going and I used a fine tooth hobby saw to finish cutting the slot once once I cut through in one place. I also used a large diameter (~1/2") bit in the drill press from the inside of the car to remove the molded 'button' from the center of the car roof. There may be better ways of doing these things, but this worked. Of course you could avoid all this nonsense by painting the 970 car yellow (or your circus color). My only upright 'walking' animal for this car was a lead monkey which I was afraid might be too heavy, so I used a sitting plastic chimpanzee. Thus I have a 'Sliding Chimp' car rather than a Walking Brakeman car. I lettered the car with red 'Dell Antonio Family Circus' decals as above. Finally I put a 634 floodlight car in the train as circuses used searchlights to advertise their presence. The lighted car adds a little more interest to the train. My car with the yellow floodlight housing even fits the circus color scheme. The circus train draws a lot of interest and smiles from visitors to our Rochester Area S-Gaugers modular layout at train shows. Keep in training, Roger Delthony

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12818	From: sigma@ecn.ab.ca	Date: 4/16/2001
Subject: covered hopper

Can anyone identify for me the prototype followed by AF covered hopper 924? Joe Pereira email: sigma@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12819	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 4/16/2001
Subject: Re: Smokin' Diesels

>>> Dear Group, Happy holidays to all ! I have a question. I know that A.F. made plenty of steamers that smoked, but did A.F. ever make a diesel that smoked ?? Please post or e-mail me with any and all answers. Thank you, enjoy this wonderful day! >>> Bob--I recall seeing an AF Alco at the NASG '98 Worcester Convention which had been modified for smoke. Looked really great! Can't remember the name of the fellow who developed it (he's probably on this list), but it seems to me that he was a member of the Crescent City club in New Orleans. He was going to send me a plan for modification, but evidently got busy with other things. Jay Mellon--do you know his name, or do I have the wrong club? John Eichmann RMHR Boise

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12820	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 4/16/2001
Subject: Re: covered hopper

Dear Joe, These were built for the Central Railroad of Pennsylvania (actually a corp. formed to avoid NJ taxes by the CRRofNJ) by the Reading. They look a little like the car, but the prototype did have a few ribs on the sides. Don T. sigma@... wrote: > Can anyone identify for me the prototype followed by > AF covered hopper 924? > Joe Pereira > > email: sigma@... > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New 2nd run reefers are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12821	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 4/16/2001
Subject: SMOKING DIESELS

Couldn't a n ho smoke unit with a tiny motor /fan be insalled to get the smoke to flow there should be enough room in the PA's and Baldwins for this....Mike S ( Hey you could use my first batch of smoke fluid It smelled like Diesel fuel<G>)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12822	From: Tom Robichaud	Date: 4/16/2001
Subject: Re: SMOKING DIESELS

Been there, done that. The MTH smoke unit I used in my Lionel GP9 has a fan built in. Tommy anormal1@... on 04/16/2001 03:53:59 PM To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com cc: Subject: [S-Trains] SMOKING DIESELS Couldn't a n ho smoke unit with a tiny motor /fan be insalled to get the smoke to flow there should be enough room in the PA's and Baldwins for this....Mike S ( Hey you could use my first batch of smoke fluid It smelled like Diesel fuel<G>) S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12823	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 4/16/2001
Subject: Re: SHS 2-8-0 Consolidation

David Horn wrote: > Third would be Western Maryland (hey it looks good, and > the real one still runs). Well, not quite a real one, but a reproduction! Western Maryland Scenic's 2-8-0 is a former Bessemer and Lake Erie locomotive altered to closely represent a WM locomotive. Anybody say "prototype for anything?" Be seeing you... Rich G.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12824	From: ALLAN V EISENHAUR	Date: 4/16/2001
Subject: ERTL Parts

Hello All I am looking for some help. I purchased a 1/64 Bulldozer for my train layout a couple of years ago and now the treads have rotted. Ertl says on there WEB site they don't have replacement parts. Does anyone on the list know of any after market replacement parts supplier's for diecast toys. Thanks AL ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12825	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 4/16/2001
Subject: Re: ERTL Parts

Try these guys www.clasictintoy.com I don't know if you need the rest but here it is /replace.html Their Phone # is 900 693 8417 Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12826	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 4/16/2001
Subject: american models

I ordered some parts to repair a couple of abused baldwins,I got fast email responses,quick service,and exactly the parts I needed.If I'm happy with them I tell eveyone,If I'm not I'll tell them.Good job A.M.!!! Keith _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12827	From: Eugene Steffan	Date: 4/16/2001
Subject: Re: american models

I just received the same great service on parts I just ordered. Gene Keith Kuzma wrote: > I ordered some parts to repair a couple of abused baldwins,I got fast email > responses,quick service,and exactly the parts I needed.If I'm happy with > them I tell eveyone,If I'm not I'll tell them.Good job A.M.!!! Keith > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12828	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 4/16/2001
Subject: Re: New file uploaded to S-Trains

"Tom Robichaud" <trobicha@l> wrote: >As you can see, I posted a picture of my Smoking S-Gauge GP9. Actually, that's a GP7 (as are all Gilbert and LTI Geeps), but it does indeed look great a-smokin' like that. Good job! You could give those MTH guys a run (smoke) for their money. Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12829	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 4/16/2001
Subject: Re: ERTL Parts

Al, That happened to a couple of bulldozers and military tanks I have. On some of their later stuff, like the "variable floatation" farm gear, ERTL switched to vinyl for the tread material which lasts a long time. Much of the construction and military stuff still uses rubber treads, though. Even if you did get new rubber treads from ERTL, they'd still rot in another year or two. Instead, you might consider making treads out of styrene cardstock. I cut some strips of appropriate width from some Evergreen "metal siding" (item 4529), bent each strip around the "spools" of each vehicle, and glued the strip ends together, sometimes filing the ends to make a smooth joint where needed. These plastic treads can be painted the proper color (silver) and weathered. The vehicles won't "roll", but, of course, they don't need to for mrr purposes. Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12830	From: roninscho9@yahoo.com	Date: 4/16/2001
Subject: Re: SHS 2-8-0 Consolidation

--- In S-Trains@y..., Rich Gajnak <rich.gajnak@t...> wrote: > David Horn wrote: > > > Third would be Western Maryland (hey it looks good, and > > the real one still runs). > > Well, not quite a real one, but a reproduction! Western Maryland > Scenic's 2-8-0 is a former Bessemer and Lake Erie locomotive altered > to closely represent a WM locomotive. > > Anybody say "prototype for anything?" > > > Be seeing you... > Rich G. the W.M. 2-8-0 is a former L S & I Lake Superior & Michigan eng. ron inscho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12831	From: roninscho9@yahoo.com	Date: 4/16/2001
Subject: Re: SHS 2-8-0 Consolidation

--- In S-Trains@y..., Rich Gajnak <rich.gajnak@t...> wrote: > David Horn wrote: > > > Third would be Western Maryland (hey it looks good, and > > the real one still runs). > > Well, not quite a real one, but a reproduction! Western Maryland > Scenic's 2-8-0 is a former Bessemer and Lake Erie locomotive altered > to closely represent a WM locomotive. > > Anybody say "prototype for anything?" > > > Be seeing you... > Rich G. while I am a New York Central fan how about a PRR h-8-9 or h-10

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12832	From: roninscho9@yahoo.com	Date: 4/16/2001
Subject: Re: SHS 2-8-0 Consolidation

--- In S-Trains@y..., roninscho9@y... wrote: > --- In S-Trains@y..., Rich Gajnak <rich.gajnak@t...> wrote: > > David Horn wrote: > > > > > Third would be Western Maryland (hey it looks good, and > > > the real one still runs). > > > > Well, not quite a real one, but a reproduction! Western Maryland > > Scenic's 2-8-0 is a former Bessemer and Lake Erie locomotive > altered > > to closely represent a WM locomotive. > > > > Anybody say "prototype for anything?" > > > > > > Be seeing you... > > Rich > G. > while I am a New York Central fan how about a PRR h-8-9 or h-10

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12833	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 4/17/2001
Subject: FOR SALE

Check my items for sale on E-bay under my seller name anormal1@... If you see something you like (Sorry no pics) all items brand new in their boxes....E-mail me with an offer and I can stop the auction and sell it to you if we agree on a price....I also have an LTI Conrail w/caboose a LTI 371? GM GP-7 The NP SET is really a great deal and I will take offers on it, So is the EP-5 The prices there are E-bay prices I will consider reas. offers from list members and all list members have a $ back gaur.... I have had a very bad exper. with E-bay and the way they handel FRAUD....Thank you for your time and this spaceto gripe mildly Mike Strickland ...........Open to any Questions....

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12834	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 4/17/2001
Subject: Re: SHS 2-8-0 Consolidation

Ron Inscho wrote: > the W.M. 2-8-0 is a former L S & I Lake Superior & Michigan > eng. > ron inscho I stand corrected... Rich G.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12835	From: Tom Robichaud	Date: 4/17/2001
Subject: Re: New file uploaded to S-Trains

Yo: OK, GP7, close enough, thanks for clearing that up. Sometimes I get confused between 7 & 9. I am a member of the Bristol S-gauge Club and we are currently planning (again, that's the current plan) on attending (which means we will have our layout set up there, I believe in the roundhouse) the NASG convention in Steamtown. I will be bring the GP7 smoking diesel. Anyone interested in checking it out, live, make sure you "track" down the club layout. Tommy eighthmile@... on 04/17/2001 12:27:02 AM To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com cc: Subject: Re: [S-Trains] New file uploaded to S-Trains "Tom Robichaud" <trobicha@l> wrote: >As you can see, I posted a picture of my Smoking S-Gauge GP9. Actually, that's a GP7 (as are all Gilbert and LTI Geeps), but it does indeed look great a-smokin' like that. Good job! You could give those MTH guys a run (smoke) for their money. Chuck F. S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12836	From: Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S.	Date: 4/17/2001
Subject: New Phone & Fax Numbers for B.T.S.

Howdy Friends I hate to do a multiple crossposting, but this is the fastest way to get the info out to you. Our move to a new office space will be finished by the end of the month. During the next two weeks, we will be bouncing between the two offices, getting all the books, files, furniture, and equipment moved. We have answering machines on both lines, and will get back to you as soon as possible. The fax move will be effective on April 30. New Phone - 813-643-1105 New Fax - 813-681-7326 Mailing address DOES NOT change - P O Box 561, Seffner, FL 33583 E-mail address DOES NOT change - bill@... Hours are still officially 10AM - 5PM Monday-Friday. However, as many of you know, we work longer than that, including weekends, so you might catch us during off hours. Thanks, Bill -- ============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-795-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 *** After April 30 *** Phone: 813-643-1105 FAX: 813-681-7326 B.T.S. http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12837	From: ALLAN V EISENHAUR	Date: 4/17/2001
Subject: Duplicate Magazines

HI all I have For Sale or Trade, duplicate train magazines, TCA Quarterly's , TCA Directories, CTT, S Gaugian and OGR. If interested please email me directly . Thanks AL ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12838	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 4/17/2001
Subject: Re: New file uploaded to S-Trains

Tom wrote: >OK, GP7, close enough, thanks for clearing that up. Sometimes I get >confused between 7 & 9. LOL! No problem, Tom, I'm jes' teazin'! Fact is, it's Lionel that can't get such things straight. But then, they're prone to omit entire axles from steamers, so I guess things like louvers, fans, and turbo-charger exhausts wouldn't impinge their thinking. Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12839	From: roninscho9@yahoo.com	Date: 4/17/2001
Subject: NYC Empire state express set from Am models

any info on when this is to be avalible ?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12840	From: Bill Frazier	Date: 4/17/2001
Subject: AF transformer ratings

I noticed that a 19B transformer, which is rated at 300 watts input, has a voltmeter which goes up to 15 volts and an ammeter that goes up to 6 amps. 15 volts x 6 amps = 90 watts output. I realize that the 300 watt designation is nominal, is input rather than output, and may come more from the advertising department than the engineering department. It still seems to be quite a difference, even allowing for some losses in the transformer. Does anyone know for sure what the actual maximum output of a 19B or 30B is? What amperage does the circuit breaker trip at? I don't have an ammeter that goes high enough to check it myself. Thanks, Bill Frazier

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12841	From: sgriggs@umich.edu	Date: 4/17/2001
Subject: Re: NYC Empire state express set from Am models

--- In S-Trains@y..., roninscho9@y... wrote: > any info on when this is to be avalible ? When and where did you find out about this?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12842	From: roninscho9@yahoo.com	Date: 4/17/2001
Subject: Re: NYC Empire state express set from Am models

--- In S-Trains@y..., sgriggs@u... wrote: > --- In S-Trains@y..., roninscho9@y... wrote: > > any info on when this is to be avalible ? > > > When and where did you find out about this? just seen the ad today in Classic trains summer issue on page 10 only info is set price to be $619.95 & eng.alone is $369.95 dc version checked A.M. web site an found no mention of this set or eng.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12843	From: roninscho9@yahoo.com	Date: 4/17/2001
Subject: Re: NYC Empire state express set from Am models

--- In S-Trains@y..., roninscho9@y... wrote: > --- In S-Trains@y..., sgriggs@u... wrote: > > --- In S-Trains@y..., roninscho9@y... wrote: > > > any info on when this is to be avalible ? > > > > > > When and where did you find out about this? just seen the ad > today in Classic trains summer issue on page 10 only info is set > price to be $619.95 & eng.alone is $369.95 dc version checked A.M. > web site an found no mention of this set or eng.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12844	From: sgriggs@umich.edu	Date: 4/17/2001
Subject: Re: AF transformer ratings

--- In S-Trains@y..., "Bill Frazier" <bilfrazier@a...> wrote: > I noticed that a 19B transformer, which is rated at 300 watts input, > has a voltmeter which goes up to 15 volts and an ammeter that goes up > to 6 amps. 15 volts x 6 amps = 90 watts output. I realize that the > 300 watt designation is nominal, is input rather than output, and may > come more from the advertising department than the engineering > department. It still seems to be quite a difference, even allowing > for some losses in the transformer. Does anyone know for sure what > the actual maximum output of a 19B or 30B is? What amperage does the > circuit breaker trip at? I don't have an ammeter that goes high > enough to check it myself. > > Thanks, > > Bill Frazier According to the original Gilbert service documentation reproduced in the Aurotech Flyer Service Manual, the ammeter in a 19B is only measuring the current through variable voltage post, so the total current draw on the transformer doesn't necessarily register on the gauge. The circuit breaker, however, is in series with the Base Post terminal.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12845	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 4/17/2001
Subject: Re: AF transformer ratings

If it is rated300 watts input there is heat loss from the trans.. also did you take into account the acc. posts...Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12846	From: Tom Rolfsmeyer	Date: 4/17/2001
Subject: Please unsubscribe me.

Please unsubscribe me for the next 7 days. Thanks Tom Rolfsmeyer

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12847	From: William Ellis	Date: 4/17/2001
Subject: Re: AF transformer ratings

Difference could be if it's rated under a load or not. Bill Ellis wb9cac@... ----- Original Message ----- From: <sgriggs@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 5:51 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Re: AF transformer ratings > --- In S-Trains@y..., "Bill Frazier" <bilfrazier@a...> wrote: > > I noticed that a 19B transformer, which is rated at 300 watts input, > > has a voltmeter which goes up to 15 volts and an ammeter that goes > up > > to 6 amps. 15 volts x 6 amps = 90 watts output. I realize that the > > 300 watt designation is nominal, is input rather than output, and > may > > come more from the advertising department than the engineering > > department. It still seems to be quite a difference, even allowing > > for some losses in the transformer. Does anyone know for sure what > > the actual maximum output of a 19B or 30B is? What amperage does the > > circuit breaker trip at? I don't have an ammeter that goes high > > enough to check it myself. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Bill Frazier > > > According to the original Gilbert service documentation reproduced in > the Aurotech Flyer Service Manual, the ammeter in a 19B is only > measuring the current through variable voltage post, so the total > current draw on the transformer doesn't necessarily register on the > gauge. The circuit breaker, however, is in series with the Base Post > terminal. > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12848	From: J_Gasal@Compuserve.com	Date: 4/17/2001
Subject: Re: AF transformer ratings

I own both a 18B and 30B. One cold winter day, I got to wondering if Flyer used the same transformer core/coil assembly for both units to reduce manufacturing inventory and merely rated them differently for marketing reasons. I performed what is called a full load transformer test to find the impedance of each unit (I used to work for a transformer manufacturer so I get a kick out of doing things like this). Based on the tests, Flyer did use different core/coil assemblies and the difference in impedance matched the difference in wattage ratings. My test had all the windings operating in parallel (ie, fixed voltage and variable voltage). A variation of this test could be done on the 19B to determine the impedance split between the variable and fixed voltage windings. This could then be used to estimate the wattage split between the variable & fixed voltage windings. John --- In S-Trains@y..., "Bill Frazier" <bilfrazier@a...> wrote: > I noticed that a 19B transformer, which is rated at 300 watts input, > has a voltmeter which goes up to 15 volts and an ammeter that goes up > to 6 amps. 15 volts x 6 amps = 90 watts output. I realize that the > 300 watt designation is nominal, is input rather than output, and may > come more from the advertising department than the engineering > department. It still seems to be quite a difference, even allowing > for some losses in the transformer. Does anyone know for sure what > the actual maximum output of a 19B or 30B is? What amperage does the > circuit breaker trip at? I don't have an ammeter that goes high > enough to check it myself. > > Thanks, > > Bill Frazier

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12849	From: Bill Lane	Date: 4/17/2001
Subject: Pennsy S Models X 29 project

Hi All, The Pennsy S Models website www.pennsysmodels.com has just been updated with the latest news of our brass PRR X29 project. While we have been quiet lately, we have not been inactive. We are fulfilling our promise to deliver the "spare no details" model that we said we would. Dan and I would like to thank our customers for their patience while we were waiting for a production slot. Please stop by the website and feel free to email us with any questions. Thank You Bill Lane Dan Mastrobuono Pennsy S Models

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12850	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 4/17/2001
Subject: AF transformer ratings

Do the larger AF transformers actually have more than one secondary winding? i have never unwound one. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12851	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 4/17/2001
Subject: AF transformer ratings

This is interesting. According to the diagrams on the service sheets, the turret rransformers have separate secondaries for the accessory post, whereas the later 5 digit large transformers without turrets do not. Just another way in which they were cheapened. The smaller transformers are shown as having just one secondary. Of course, the exploded views, parts lists, and circuit diagrams on Gilbert factory sheets are unreliable -- they are full of errors. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12852	From: Tom Robichaud	Date: 4/18/2001
Subject: Southwind Consolidation, anyone running one on DCC?

Yo: I have a Southwind Consolidation 2-8-0 and I'm in the process of converting it from DC to DCC. Has anyone converted a DC version to DCC? If so did you have any problems with how it operates? Thanks Tommy

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12853	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 4/18/2001
Subject: unsubscribe

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12854	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 4/18/2001
Subject: Re: Transformer ratings

It has been my experience that the rating of transformers is based on the input or draw of the transformer 300 watts = 120 volts x 2.5 amps. Out put seems to very between different makes of transformers of the same rating. The circuit breaker (the old bimetal strip) is more sensitive to time than amperage. The new polybreakers are more sensitive to amperage. Please comment on your findings. thanks Jerry 77-11644 ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12855	From: Guy Davis	Date: 4/18/2001
Subject: AF 4-4-0

My old tyme General style American Flyer 4-4-0 seems to be missing rubber tires from its drivers. These are apparently much thicker than the pull-more tires. Doers anyone know where I can get replacement tires? Thanks. Guy Davis.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12856	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 4/18/2001
Subject: accessories

I want to buy junk accessories.If you have any for sale,E-mail me pictures or descriptions and prices.Thanks Keith _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12857	From: bilfrazier@aol.com	Date: 4/18/2001
Subject: Re: Transformers.

You are absolutely right. I didn't think to check the schematic. This makes me wonder, with two secondaries, what is the maximum for each if the maximum is 300 watts for both? If a 19B has only 90 watts available, and assuming a 30B has the same, a 30B would have only 45 watts per sideif both were in use, less than some of the smallest single secondary transformers. This doesn't sound right to me. Bill Frazier > > Message: 18 > Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 23:52:00 -0400 > From: jarcho@... > Subject: AF transformer ratings > > This is interesting. According to the diagrams on the service sheets, the > turret rransformers have separate secondaries for the accessory post, > whereas the later 5 digit large transformers without turrets do not. Just > another way in which they were cheapened. > > The smaller transformers are shown as having just one secondary. > > Of course, the exploded views, parts lists, and circuit diagrams on Gilbert > factory sheets are unreliable -- they are full of errors. > > Tom Jarcho > > >    Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 22:15:29 -0000    From: "Bill Frazier" <bilfrazier@...> Subject: AF transformer ratings I noticed that a 19B transformer, which is rated at 300 watts input, has a voltmeter which goes up to 15 volts and an ammeter that goes up to 6 amps. 15 volts x 6 amps = 90 watts output. I realize that the 300 watt designation is nominal, is input rather than output, and may come more from the advertising department than the engineering department. It still seems to be quite a difference, even allowing for some losses in the transformer. Does anyone know for sure what the actual maximum output of a 19B or 30B is? What amperage does the circuit breaker trip at? I don't have an ammeter that goes high enough to check it myself. Thanks, Bill Frazier [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12858	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 4/18/2001
Subject: ACCESSORIES

Kieth.....My wife has some old pearls and some ear rings I think she';ll let you have let me know Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12859	From: Tom Stolte	Date: 4/18/2001
Subject: Missouri Pacific Photos web page updated..

Folks, Its been awhile since I did any updating to my MP Photos web page, but tonight I just uploaded 22 photos of covered grain hoppers from James Kinkaid. All of these are large color photos taken at the pullman plant I think. They would be located at the link that says, Other railroad photos from around the area, at the bottom of the page. So when you all get some time, go up and take a look. URL below. -- Tom Stolte - Oddballs Decals N, HO, S & O Scale Model Railroad Decals 26550 227th Street; McLouth, Kansas 66054 Phone: 913-727-6649 - oddballdecal@... Web site http://www.oddballsdecals.com/ Subscribe: OddballsDecals-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Missouri Pacific Photos Web Page: http://www.trainweb.org/mopac/ NMRA Member #121756

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12860	From: John Foley	Date: 4/18/2001
Subject: NASG Convention Car

Hi Folks The NASG convention cars are getting very low. They have been selling great. Their is only 20 of the convention year cars left and 45 of the prototype #'s cars. left. To order click on this address. http://trainweb.org/steamtown2001/ John Foley

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12861	From: Scott Brown	Date: 4/18/2001
Subject: All aboard panels

If anyone is looking for some all aboard panels, my local store has 6. They are just the panels, no trees or buildings, track, etc. If you are interested I'm sure I can get you a good price. Reply offline please. Scott Brown Atlantic Coast S Gaugers Washington & Old Dominion Division sbrown56@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12862	From: Rick Evans	Date: 4/18/2001
Subject: Hot Wheels hot rods....

Be on the look-out for the new cars from Hot Wheels. A four car series called "Rat Rods", includes a '33 Roadster and a '50 Ford. The cars are done in the old flat/primer look, and with white walls. Also in the 2001 series,...a Model A type convertible pick-up with black primer and flames, maybe throw a little paint on the grill and interior. Not bad looking cars for under a dollar each!!! And will look great parked at your diner or burger stand!! Rick "Too young to remember these cars but love 'em" Evans.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12863	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 4/19/2001
Subject: TRAINS 4 Sale

Hi I have the following for sale 2 GP-7's First a GM diesel Brand new in the box never run Box shows some shelf wwear $ 188.00 Includes Shipping & ins Nexrt a Conrail GP-7 brand new in the box It comes with a Conrail Baywindow caboose $210.00 shipping & ins included A Bordens #24575 flatw/2bordens tanks the car is like new pm couplers 65.00 shipping included a B&O9702 Sentinel box car Like new no box 35.00 shipping included next a 9707rail box boxcar 4 %50.00 shipping incl.. I have some other itemaxs On E-Bay lookunder anormal1@... as the seller All the items Included the ones on E-bay are open to Reas Offers The NP Set IS really worth the asking price....the slight flaw is really a fixable deal the extra cars more than make up for the tiny tiny seperation at the drum head....The NH 499 LTI has been sold.... If interested I have a 405 that was recromed by Doug Peck all it needs is a speaker and a few screws Runs great....I will also have aT&P GP-7 a # 375 a293 312 322 310 283 and some others the Items I just listed are E- or better I may also hav 3- 343's and a 342 ac and a docksider I was starting to list these tonight on E-bay but thought you guys might like a shot at them first ....Look at my feedback for my rep. as far as describing and grading and of course a $ back gaurntee Even if I spelled it wrong....There is a reason for selling most of my collection but I don't want to get into that... Thank You Michael Strickland

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12864	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 4/19/2001
Subject: NP SET

If some one is really looking for a NP set with the Extra "b" unit and pass car Feel free to make an offer direct to me ...I reserved the right to end that auction at any time But serious only please....I got the run around on it once from some one on this list but I will not name him....Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12865	From: Bill Lane	Date: 4/19/2001
Subject: Enhorning Items

Hi All, With the recent discussion of S Scale companies of the past, there are 2 listings on Ebay for Enhoring items. It says that they were owned by Enhorning himself. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1135927219 http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1135953161 FYI, Bill

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12866	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 4/19/2001
Subject: Transformers

- Greeting`S' - The recent discussion of transformers and their ratings sent me to a book entitled "Reference Data for Engineers:..." From the table "Classification of Electrical Insulating Materials" one sees that unimpregnated paper has a limiting temperature at the hottest spot of 90 C. Table 7 covers the types of insulation on the wire. Modified polyvinyl formal coating (typical - Formvar) is the thermal class 105 C. Higher tremperatures cause more rapid degradation of the wire coating and the paper separators between turns. Lower temps means the insulation will last longer. All we need now is a means of measuring the core temperature without boring a hole in the case. That will be the true measure of the wattage the transformer can handle on a continuous basis. Since these transformers are 40 or 50 years old, two caveats obtain. First, the insulating materials were not so advanced which suggests that a lower temp such as 60 C or 70 C should be used. Second, the insulating materials may have reached the statistical point where half the insulating life of the material is gone. At least the iron and the case are still good. Cheer`S' Rhett

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12867	From: sigma@ecn.ab.ca	Date: 4/19/2001
Subject: All Nation

Does anyone know whether All Nation Hobbies is still in business? If so, where? Joe Pereira email: sigma@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12868	From: Scott Holm	Date: 4/19/2001
Subject: Re: Transformers.

The 300 watts on a 30B is supposed to be the output, not the input. The 90 watts calculation was based on the incorrect assumption that the maximum number on the ammeter for the variable post on a 19B has something to do with the maximum number of amps that the transformer can produce. It doesn't; If the number of amps exceeds 6 it just causes the meter to peg. You would probably only exceed 6 if you were running 3 or more trains simultaneously. It was also pointed out that this is only the variable post and didn't include the fixed post. For example, you could have 10 amps being drawn from the fixed post while only drawing 2 from the variable post. Theoretically, a 30B could produce 300 watts total, such as 2 amps (30 watts) at one variable post, 4 amps (60 watts) at the other variable post, and 14 amps (210 watts) at a fixed post. 20 amps x 15 volts = 300 watts total. --- bilfrazier@... wrote: > If a 19B has only 90 watts available, and assuming a 30B has the > same, a 30B would have only 45 watts per sideif both were in use, > less than some of the smallest single secondary transformers. This > doesn't sound right to me. > > I noticed that a 19B transformer, which is rated at 300 watts input, > has a voltmeter which goes up to 15 volts and an ammeter that goes up > to 6 amps. 15 volts x 6 amps = 90 watts output. I realize that the > 300 watt designation is nominal, is input rather than output, and may > come more from the advertising department than the engineering > department. It still seems to be quite a difference, even allowing > for some losses in the transformer. Does anyone know for sure what > the actual maximum output of a 19B or 30B is? What amperage does the > circuit breaker trip at? I don't have an ammeter that goes high > enough to check it myself. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12869	From: negative_pitch@hotmail.com	Date: 4/19/2001
Subject: Location of AC Gilbert Building

I am staying in NYC for the next few days and was wondering if anyone had any suggestiongs on train shops to see with S gauge and or Flyer. Plus I was hoping to find the address of the old Gilbert building to drive by. Mark

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12870	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 4/19/2001
Subject: Enhorning items

Wasn't there some story that this diesel was developed as part of a celebration of a GM anniversary, which was used as an excuse to make the first S scale diesel? Could that GM demonstrator therefore have added significance?? Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12871	From: alorince@yahoo.com	Date: 4/19/2001
Subject: train shows ohio

apr 22 massillion oh k of c hall cherry street 10 am to 3 pm may 6, akron oh tadmor temple i 77 south arlington ave exit 10 am to 3 pm. i'm expecting to have my american models stock at both these shows. andy lorince

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12872	From: David Garber	Date: 4/19/2001
Subject: a.c.gilbert factory

I forgot the address try the Eli Whitney Museum 915 Whitney ave. Hamden Ct. 203)7771833 open w t f 12-5 sat 10-3 sun 12-5 .web page www.eliwhitney.org/ex.htm should have the info. and an A.C .gilbert display. dave garber check your e mail for more info d.garber@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12873	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 4/19/2001
Subject: Train Master Release

Gentlemen, The Train Master is now on our web. We are not able to send individual info out at this time to those who gave us their E Mail address. My web master is VERY ILL and is not able to do this. The S Gauge conversion for the Inds. Rail is also available but it could not get onto the web site at this time. They are complete with all the Inds. Rail features and our 8 wheel gear drive chassis at $ 145. plus shipping and handling $8.00. We will have a few of each of the Train Master chassis and shells along with the lighting and handrail options at TCA. next week. Also will have some of the S gauge converted Inds Rail trolleys if they last that long! We are in the Purple Hall at F 11 and F12. See us there! Tom Doherty Pennsylvania Heritage Models, Ltd. http://www.paheritagemodels.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12874	From: LASTMAN	Date: 4/19/2001
Subject: Re: Location of AC Gilbert Building

Ferry & Peck streets , ( Erector Square ) New Haven , Conn also search for A.C Gilbert Museum in Conn .... gsr -----Original Message----- From: negative_pitch@... <negative_pitch@...> To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Date: Thursday, April 19, 2001 4:12 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Location of AC Gilbert Building >I am staying in NYC for the next few days and was wondering if anyone >had any suggestiongs on train shops to see with S gauge and or >Flyer. Plus I was hoping to find the address of the old Gilbert >building to drive by. > >Mark > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > NetZero Platinum No Banner Ads and Unlimited Access Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month! http://www.netzero.net

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12875	From: negative_pitch@hotmail.com	Date: 4/19/2001
Subject: Re: Location of AC Gilbert Building

Thx, I hope I can break free to get over that way. So any suggestions on train shops within a reasonable distance of Madison ave and 50th? --- In S-Trains@y..., "LASTMAN" <lastman@n...> wrote: > Ferry & Peck streets , ( Erector Square ) > New Haven , Conn > > also search for A.C Gilbert Museum in Conn .... > gsr > -----Original Message----- > From: negative_pitch@h... <negative_pitch@h...> > To: S-Trains@y... <S-Trains@y...> > Date: Thursday, April 19, 2001 4:12 PM > Subject: [S-Trains] Location of AC Gilbert Building > > > >I am staying in NYC for the next few days and was wondering if anyone > >had any suggestiongs on train shops to see with S gauge and or > >Flyer. Plus I was hoping to find the address of the old Gilbert > >building to drive by. > > > >Mark > > > > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@e... > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > NetZero Platinum > No Banner Ads and Unlimited Access > Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month! > http://www.netzero.net

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12876	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 4/20/2001
Subject: accessories

Anyone have any junk accessories for sale?Condition doesn't matter.E-mail off list,photos or decription,and price.Thanks in advance.Keith _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12877	From: Clay Buckage	Date: 4/20/2001
Subject: Gilbert Get-Together Spring 2001

Hi All........ This springs Gilbert Get-Together will be held @ the Four Points Sheraton, 1650 Toronita Street (across the street from Days Inn, where the first one was held in October) Thursday April 26 9:00pm There will be no admission charge this time. There will be no refreshments so bring your own coffee. a.. Bring a special piece and tell the group about it b.. Meet a new friend c.. Prototypes will be on display d.. Bring that lionel friend you been trying to convert e.. There will be no buying, selling or trading of any kind f.. This is an educational event and has no connection with the TCA or Lionel Please tell your friends about the meeting and bring somebody with you Let's see if we can build this into a regular event LOOK FOR US IN THE GOLD HALL THIS YEAR THE SHIRTS ARE READY!!!!!!!!! YELLOW GOLF SHIRT W/BLUE STITCHING NORMALLY $30 YORK SPECIAL $25 DENIM LONG SLEEVES ALSO AVAILABLE thnx Clay "Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men???" "The Shadow Knows!" Clay Buckage Dave's Twacks & Twains Box 388 Tatamy, Pa. 18085 clay@... www.davestnt.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12878	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 4/20/2001
Subject: Cass

Any recommendations on where to stay and which ride to take at Cass? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12879	From: Ted R Larson	Date: 4/20/2001
Subject: S-MOD

I found a clamp that has many advantages over c-clamps when clamping S-MOD modules together. See http://www.jamesmorton.com/newclamps.html scroll down to the Bessey Mighty Mini bar clamp. http://www.jamesmorton.com/newproductimages/mightymini.html I bought 5 for $20 at a local industrial tool supply house. ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12880	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 4/20/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, April 22, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12881	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 4/20/2001
Subject: A/F NH 984 Boxcar door

Hi All, Looking for one door for a 984 New Haven boxcar. If you have one to part with at York or where-ever, let me know offlist with price and table location. Thanks Jim Lyle [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12882	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 4/20/2001
Subject: Re: Enhorning items

jarcho@... wrote: > Wasn't there some story that this diesel was developed as part of a > celebration of a GM anniversary, which was used as an excuse to make the > first S scale diesel? Could that GM demonstrator therefore have added > significance?? > > Tom Jarcho > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ I vaguely remember hearing that a long time ago also, Wish some of those like Doc Johnson in St. Louis, Cal Lasley, or others could tell.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12883	From: Rick Evans	Date: 4/20/2001
Subject: S, O, or HO Flyer bridge...??

Just curious of this item on ebay,....Anyone have a clue to it's number ifn' it is an "S" gauge item??? http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1133594363 Whew!! Hope that's right!!! Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12884	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 4/20/2001
Subject: "SAM"

Is lying l doing a sam this year?I was just advised by a lionel parts guy that I shouldn't try to repair the one I have.I should just wait a couple months until lionel releases theirs.As soon as they do the value of an original will drop by about 80%.If any out there has a real nice 758 for about $65 let me know.A good barrel loader $25,a sawmill $40. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12885	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 4/20/2001
Subject: "SAM"

Is lying l doing a sam this year?I was just advised by a lionel parts guy that I shouldn't try to repair the one I have.I should just wait a couple months until lionel releases theirs.As soon as they do the value of an original will drop by about 80%.If any out there has a real nice 758 for about $65 let me know.A good barrel loader $25,a sawmill $40. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12886	From: Al Paolozzi	Date: 4/20/2001
Subject: Re: S, O, or HO Flyer bridge...??

Very Interesting! Twenty years of looking at flyer and I 've never seen this one. Wish the photo was also from other end. Al amflyral@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Evans" <comic@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 8:09 PM Subject: [S-Trains] S, O, or HO Flyer bridge...?? > Just curious of this item on ebay,....Anyone have a clue to it's > number ifn' it is an "S" gauge item??? > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1133594363 > > Whew!! Hope that's right!!! > > Rick. > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12887	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 4/20/2001
Subject: "SAM"

hahahahahahahahahahahahaha. very funny. The only way you would get those Flyer accessories at those prices is at gunpoint.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12888	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/20/2001
Subject: Re: "SAM"

Keith, Most original AF items still retain there value after the intial production of a repro. Mostly because the repros are never quite the same as the real thang! And, yes, I own repros, can't afford the orginals! And yes, they don't work the same! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12889	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 4/21/2001
Subject: Re: "SAM"

"Lying L", "Flyonel" or now "Chionel" is (are) not known for doing anything original, so could be. It seems amazing that the dies they didn't have for years suddenly appear after other manufacturers bring out superior products. Maybe (could this be too much to hope) they are also working on prototypical sprung trucks with wheels that roll. Still seems that with their lunch being eaten in "O", they would put more effort in a market that continually cries out their (American Flyer) name. Perhaps it IS impossible to see the train for the 60 year old boxcars. Perhaps we expect too much. Jim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12890	From: Peck	Date: 4/21/2001
Subject: Re: bridge

This looks to me like someone took an original full-length bridge and cut it down. If you look closely, the 4 base corners do not match where the uprights meet the base. The two on one end are different from the two on the opposite end. Had it been original, you can be sure that all four corners would be identical. The write-up also states, "one of a kind", which tells me the writer recognizes this as an altered item. <Rick wrote: Just curious of this item on ebay,....Anyone have a clue to it's number ifn' it is an "S" gauge item??? http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1133594363 > Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12891	From: Eugene Steffan	Date: 4/21/2001
Subject: Re: bridge

Also, can't quite tell, but it looks like a couple of Erector Set girder pieces as cross members on the top. Gene Peck wrote: > This looks to me like someone took an original full-length bridge and cut it > down. If you look closely, the 4 base corners do not match where the > uprights meet the base. The two on one end are different from the two on the > opposite end. Had it been original, you can be sure that all four corners > would be identical. > The write-up also states, "one of a kind", which tells me the writer > recognizes this as an altered item. > > <Rick wrote: > Just curious of this item on ebay,....Anyone have a clue to it's > number ifn' it is an "S" gauge item??? > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1133594363 > > > > Doug Peck > Port Lines Hobby Supplies > 6 Storeybrooke Drive > Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 > Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST > 978-465-8798 > 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). > http://www.portlines.com > portlines@... > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12892	From: busyboy	Date: 4/21/2001
Subject: Re: S, O, or HO Flyer bridge...??

Rick Evans wrote: >Just curious of this item on ebay,....Anyone have a clue to it's >number ifn' it is an "S" gauge item??? >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1133594363 Rick: This bridge looks like some sort of hodge-podge. Note that the two top cross braces are Erector set pieces. Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12893	From: busyboy	Date: 4/21/2001
Subject: Re: "SAM"

Keith wrote: >I was just advised by a lionel parts guy >that I shouldn't try to repair the (Sam the Semaphore Man) I have. >I should just wait a couple >months until lionel releases theirs. As soon as they do the value of an >original will drop by about 80%.If any out there has a real nice 758 for >about $65 let me know.A good barrel loader $25,a sawmill $40. _________________________________________________________________ Keith: That's a good one! I'm sure your friendly dealer will be happy to take all your old ones off your hands at those generous prices, too. Is it just me, or do you notice an undercurrent of stupidity and greed in the world, too? If you tried to sell a dealer your old Sam, he'd say: "This is the old one, there's a new one out now with new electronics, modern materials. It makes this one worthless." If he were trying to sell it to you, he'd say: "This is the original. The new one is just a repro made of plastic. They don't make 'em like this anymore!" What he really means to say in either case is "Hand over your wallet. Now lie on the ground face down and count to 100." Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12894	From: Jerry Riechert	Date: 4/21/2001
Subject: Re: Gilbert Get-Together Spring 2001 - shirts?

For those of us not going to York how about some more info on the shirts you mentioned? > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 08:15:13 -0400 > From: "Clay Buckage" <cbuckage@...> > Subject: Gilbert Get-Together Spring 2001 > > Hi All........ > <<<Snip>>> > LOOK FOR US IN THE GOLD HALL THIS YEAR > THE SHIRTS ARE READY!!!!!!!!! > YELLOW GOLF SHIRT W/BLUE STITCHING NORMALLY $30 YORK SPECIAL $25 > DENIM LONG SLEEVES ALSO AVAILABLE > > thnx > Clay > > "Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men???" > "The Shadow Knows!" > > Clay Buckage > Dave's Twacks & Twains > Box 388 > Tatamy, Pa. 18085 > clay@... > www.davestnt.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12895	From: Rick Evans	Date: 4/21/2001
Subject: Chopped/hodge-podged/whatever bridge........

I had a bid on that weird bridge,....but it ended up at almost $35.00!! Thanks for all the replies! Rick "No bridge, look out below" Evans.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12896	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 4/21/2001
Subject: Re: "SAM"

Chris Zizzo wrote: >If you tried to sell a dealer your old Sam, he'd say: "This is the >old one, >there's a new one out now with new electronics, modern materials. >It makes >this one worthless." If he were trying to sell it to you, he'd >say: "This >is the original. The new one is just a repro made of plastic. They >don't >make 'em like this anymore!" What he really means to say in either >case is >"Hand over your wallet. Now lie on the ground face down and count >to 100." Exactly. And these same dealers wonder why some people get disgusted and leave the hobby (or avoid it altogether). Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12897	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 4/21/2001
Subject: SAM AGAIN

Just want to be clear on this.The parts dealer I was referring to in my "SAM" commentary is not listed on Paul Yorkes web page.Keith _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12898	From: Mark Preman	Date: 4/21/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 989

How many of you are going to York and how many will attend the S group get-together Thursday night? This was a blast last fall! Let's see a show of hands. Ok, smart alec, just know that this get together was about as much fun as "Flyer" guys can have (in public). Mark --- S-Trains@yahoogroups.com wrote: > S-Trains list sponsor: > http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories > too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > There are 12 messages in this issue. > > Topics in this digest: > > 1. Gilbert Get-Together Spring 2001 > From: "Clay Buckage" > <cbuckage@...> > 2. Cass > From: david_horn@... > 3. S-MOD > From: Ted R Larson <mhrreast@...> > 4. Reminder - Sunday Chat > From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com > 5. A/F NH 984 Boxcar door > From: WJJIM@... > 6. Re: Enhorning items > From: ironhors@... > 7. S, O, or HO Flyer bridge...?? > From: "Rick Evans" > <comic@...> > 8. "SAM" > From: "Keith Kuzma" > <keithkuzma@...> > 9. "SAM" > From: "Keith Kuzma" > <keithkuzma@...> > 10. Re: S, O, or HO Flyer bridge...?? > From: "Al Paolozzi" > <amflyral@...> > 11. "SAM" > From: jarcho@... > 12. Re: "SAM" > From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 08:15:13 -0400 > From: "Clay Buckage" > <cbuckage@...> > Subject: Gilbert Get-Together Spring 2001 > > Hi All........ > > This springs Gilbert Get-Together will be held > @ the Four Points Sheraton, 1650 Toronita Street > (across the street from Days Inn, where the first > one was held in October) > Thursday April 26 9:00pm > There will be no admission charge this time. There > will be > no refreshments so bring your own coffee. > a.. Bring a special piece and tell the group about > it > b.. Meet a new friend > c.. Prototypes will be on display > d.. Bring that lionel friend you been trying to > convert > e.. There will be no buying, selling or trading of > any kind > f.. This is an educational event and has no > connection with the TCA or Lionel > Please tell your friends about the meeting and bring > somebody with you > Let's see if we can build this into a regular event > > LOOK FOR US IN THE GOLD HALL THIS YEAR > THE SHIRTS ARE READY!!!!!!!!! > YELLOW GOLF SHIRT W/BLUE STITCHING NORMALLY $30 YORK > SPECIAL $25 > DENIM LONG SLEEVES ALSO AVAILABLE > > thnx > Clay > > > "Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men???" > "The Shadow Knows!" > > Clay Buckage > Dave's Twacks & Twains > Box 388 > Tatamy, Pa. 18085 > clay@... > www.davestnt.com > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 09:26:17 -0400 > From: david_horn@... > Subject: Cass > > Any recommendations on where to stay and which ride > to take at Cass? > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 19:19:00 -0400 > From: Ted R Larson <mhrreast@...> > Subject: S-MOD > > > I found a clamp that has many advantages over > c-clamps when clamping > S-MOD modules together. > See > http://www.jamesmorton.com/newclamps.html > scroll down to the Bessey Mighty Mini bar clamp. > http://www.jamesmorton.com/newproductimages/mightymini.html > I bought 5 for $20 at a local industrial tool supply > house. > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for > less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 4 > Date: 21 Apr 2001 00:02:08 -0000 > From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat > > > We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. > > Sunday Chat > > Date: Sunday, April 22, 2001 > Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) > > Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page > http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 21:40:43 EDT > From: WJJIM@... > Subject: A/F NH 984 Boxcar door > > Hi All, > Looking for one door for a 984 New Haven boxcar. > If you have one to part > with at York or where-ever, let me know offlist with > price and table > location. > > Thanks > Jim > Lyle > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 6 > === message truncated === ===== Mark B. Preman AmericanFlyerTrains.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12899	From: Mike Vana	Date: 4/21/2001
Subject: AF bridge on Ebay / Control Buttons

That bridge on Ebay looked like a regular size AF bridge that was cut down. Does anyone know when AF changed from their older style "generic" control button to the newer style ones where they labeled uncoupler, whistle, etc.? Mike Vana Omaha, NE.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12900	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 4/21/2001
Subject: AF bridge on ebay

What I want to know is, where is the other half of that bridge??? Is it gonna show up on ebay next week? In fact, this could be the beginning of a new "cut rate" type of accessory ! This method might answer the demand that has been expressed on this list the last few days for lower priced accessories.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12901	From: Scott Brown	Date: 4/21/2001
Subject: Re: S, O, or HO Flyer bridge...??

Rick, If you look at the picture again you can clearly see that someone cut the original bridge to make it short. The left edge is finished, but the right edge is cut straight up and down. Same at the top of the bridge. Not a rare item or factory error. Scott Brown Rick wrote : Just curious of this item on ebay,....Anyone have a clue to it's number ifn' it is an "S" gauge item??? http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1133594363 Whew!! Hope that's right!!! Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12902	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 4/21/2001
Subject: Track Trips

Anyone know of a source for track trips and control buttons (other than eBay). Have seen lots of operating accessories but they do not have the track trips and/or buttons, so are not much good at any price unless you just want to put it on a shelf. Thanks, Tom _---_---_---______--__--___+-----+||] [||####### B & O #####|______||_____ || pjpennington@... __| [][] |__ || ||_______________________/ _| B&O |___\_|| | ||| | | | | | | / | 4212 | # ||| | []|=|==================o=====o==================|=|[] /|-||(0)|=|(0)|=|(O) |_________| (0)|=|(0)|=|(O)||-|\ ======================================================== [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12903	From: Rick Evans	Date: 4/21/2001
Subject: Coal loads......

Where might you all suggest that I find coal loads for my 940 gondolas, like the ones used in the 921's??? Anyone making repros?? *(sorry Tom J...hope they don't lower the value of yours! ;-) )* Or any other coal loads? At a train show awhile back, I found a beat up 921 and stole the load for my 801. I like the looks better with a load in 'em,...plus the previous owner of these 940's I have, used them for mixing paint in!! (when he was younger,...darn kids!!) Thanks, Rick "Coal-less" Evans.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12904	From: roninscho9@yahoo.com	Date: 4/21/2001
Subject: short a.f. bridge

this is a good example of how an item can sometimes be. misrepresented weather intentional or not. as most sellers are only trying to get the highest dollar & are not concerned if the item is correct , good cond. or even fake so when buying from on line auctions it's as always buyer be aware ron inscho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12905	From: Bill Clark	Date: 4/22/2001
Subject: Bristol Club, pictures from Greenberg

I've just posted pictures from the Bristol Club layout at Greenberg in Wilmington MA March 31-April 1. The pictures include the PHM Trainmaster demo that Tom Doherty loaned us, and a SHS NYC F3 production model loaned to us by Don Thompson. There are also pictures of the operating coal dump. http://www.trainweb.org/bristol-s-gauge/Shows/GreenbergApril2001/Greenberg.html or http://www.bristol-s-gauge.com then click on the Greenberg Show Regards Bill

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12906	From: Bill Clark	Date: 4/22/2001
Subject: Photos of John Ciarleglio's layout

I've posted some pictures from the Bristol Club meeting in March at John Ciarleglio's layout. Take a look: http://www.trainweb.org/bristol-s-gauge/MembersLayouts/JohnC/JohnC.html Thanks! Bill

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12907	From: Peck	Date: 4/22/2001
Subject: Re: controls & coal loads

<Anyone know of a source for track trips and control buttons (other than eBay). Have seen lots of operating accessories but they do not have the track trips and/or buttons> < Where might you all suggest that I find coal loads for my 940 gondolas, like the ones used in the 921's??? Anyone making repros?? *(sorry Tom J...hope they don't lower the value of yours! ;-) )* Or any other coal loads? > We stock repro control buttons (as well as originals), original and repro 696 trips, and MTH TAD trips (which are a good substitute for 697 trips. We also carry Blue Mountain coal and stone loads for both hoppers and gondolas. These are a nice quality insert that looks great as well as add some weight to the cars! We have repro plastic coal loads too, but I would recommend these heavier inserts instead, for essentially the same $$$$. Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12908	From: Howell S Jobbins	Date: 4/22/2001
Subject: Re: Coal loads......

Hi Rick, Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies has them, they are great looking and made to fit AF gondolas, hoppers ans American Models various cars too. Steve J.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12909	From: Douglass Allen	Date: 4/22/2001
Subject: Coal loads

I assume when Rick said he "stole the load" that he bought it cheap. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12910	From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi	Date: 4/22/2001
Subject: help

Lost computer two weeks ago, and all the bookmarks (and e-mail addresses) stored in same. Am trying to recover them, but would someone send me the summary address that lists most of the bookmarks (locations) for s-gauge? I think Paul Yorke has one and so does ?? (Craig?) with crocon in title. As you can see, I just can't rely on my memory!! Tx. Rance

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12911	From: Rick Evans	Date: 4/22/2001
Subject: Re: Coal loads

"Douglass Allen" wrote: ***(((I assume when Rick said he "stole the load" that he bought it cheap.))*** Yes, I did get it cheap, THEN stole the coal for my 801 !! :-) Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12912	From: Rick Evans	Date: 4/22/2001
Subject: Re: help

Rance,... This will take you to Paul's site.. http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ Is this what ya need? Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12913	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 4/22/2001
Subject: My new Rock Island (ROCK) Geep:)

Happy Earth Day After nearly a month of work my new Rock Island Geep hit the rails. I started with a L-Flyer Conrail geep that I found in Denver, blue paint matched from the L-Flyer 1980 Rock box car by a local auto body paint shop I have used for years, decals provided by Walt in Syracuse, NY (thank you) and a bit of black and white paint too. I wish that I had a good enough camera to get some tight shots but... Now to finish repainting other L-Flyer cars. I bought three hoppers from a local dealer cheap and I have redone a L-Flyer flat car with tractors plus a few original Flyer cars. Say what you want about the L-Flyer product but if you want good candidates to repaint to your favorite lines' colors buy L-Flyer. They used a different plastic compound that is a bit more forgiving that the plastics that Gilbert used and when you are done painting you can always used original Flyer trucks with the older knuckle couplers. Now my next feat (Someday) is to try and build a EMD Cenntenial. Take two or more GP-35's and somehow find or build eight wheel drive trucks, make a new frame and graft at least three shells into one. Hmmm...easy. Jeff Tangeman

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12914	From: Rick Evans	Date: 4/22/2001
Subject: Speaking of Lionel Flyer rolling stock......

I had posted a while back of my first purchase of a SHS reefer "Billboard" car. Great car!! I gave it a slight push on a small oval of track the other day, and it's still rolling!! Ok....I made that up,...but do they really roll! Anyway,...the car couples well with old Flyer stock, couples well with the 80's Lionel Flyer stock, but had troubles with a piece of Flyer from the mid 90's!! No fault of SHS,....seems Lionel changed the coupler slightly, just enough so the SHS car won't couple. The angle of the dangle isn't big enough from what I can see on the newer Flyer car. (smaller coupler it seems) Anyone find the same to be true?? If it ain't broke, why do they always try to fix it??? Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12915	From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi	Date: 4/22/2001
Subject: Help

Thanks to all who gave me all that I needed (and more!!!). Also, thanks to those of you who were about to send info - I don't need it now! Rance

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12916	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 4/22/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, April 22, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12917	From: John Foley	Date: 4/22/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] help

Hi Rance Go to www.nasg.org and click on the links button. John At 04:45 PM 4/22/01 +0200, Rance and Bente Velapoldi wrote: >Lost computer two weeks ago, and all the bookmarks (and e-mail >addresses) stored in same. Am trying to recover them, but would someone >send me the summary address that lists most of the bookmarks (locations) >for s-gauge? I think Paul Yorke has one and so does ?? (Craig?) with >crocon in title. As you can see, I just can't rely on my memory!! Tx. >Rance > > >The topic is S Scale please keep your messages 'on-topic'. >To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12918	From: erierailroad@aol.com	Date: 4/22/2001
Subject: Hartoy Tractor Trailer

Howdy, I am looking for a Hartoy tractor trailer, that has double trailers and is painted two tone orange for the Southern Pacific Railroad. If you know of one for sale, please contact me. Thanks, Jack Bartman Walden NY [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12919	From: Bob	Date: 4/22/2001
Subject: Heard anything yet........

Dear Group, According to M.T.H. web site (updated 04/17/2001) the delievery date for their version of "Gabe The Lamplighter" is still 04/15/2001. Has anyone heard when their due to arrive, or does anyone have one yet ? Please e-mail me or post any and all answers. "S"incerely..........Bob

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12920	From: Al Paolozzi	Date: 4/22/2001
Subject: Re: Heard anything yet........

Mine is on the way to me and I should have it this week! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob" <YAZFACTS@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2001 4:47 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Heard anything yet........ > Dear Group, > According to M.T.H. web site (updated 04/17/2001) the > delievery date for their version of "Gabe The Lamplighter" is still > 04/15/2001. Has anyone heard when their due to arrive, or does anyone > have one yet ? Please e-mail me or post any and all answers. > "S"incerely..........Bob > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12921	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 4/22/2001
Subject: Re: Heard anything yet........

OK, after looking at all the accessories in the MTH line, I notice that a few have the same catalog numbers as the old AF versions. Are these accurate repros in S, or am I just wishing. > Tom > >At 06:34 PM 4/22/01 -0700, you wrote: >>Mine is on the way to me and I should have it this week! >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Bob" <YAZFACTS@...> >>To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> >>Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2001 4:47 PM >>Subject: [S-Trains] Heard anything yet........ >> >> >> > Dear Group, >> > According to M.T.H. web site (updated 04/17/2001) the >> > delievery date for their version of "Gabe The Lamplighter" is still >> > 04/15/2001. Has anyone heard when their due to arrive, or does anyone >> > have one yet ? Please e-mail me or post any and all answers. >> > "S"incerely..........Bob >> > >> > >> > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >> > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! >> > >> > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to >>s-trains-unsubscribe@... >> > >> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ >> > >> > >> >> >>S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >>All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! >> >>To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to >>s-trains-unsubscribe@... >> >>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > _---_---_---______--__--___+-----+||] > [||####### B & O #####|______||_____ > || pjpennington@... __| [][] |__ || > ||_______________________/ _| B&O |___\_|| > | ||| | | | | | | / | 4212 | # ||| | >[]|=|==================o=====o==================|=|[] > /|-||(0)|=|(0)|=|(O) |_________| (0)|=|(0)|=|(O)||-|\ >======================================================== _---_---_---______--__--___+-----+||] [||####### B & O #####|______||_____ || pjpennington@... __| [][] |__ || ||_______________________/ _| B&O |___\_|| | ||| | | | | | | / | 4212 | # ||| | []|=|==================o=====o==================|=|[] /|-||(0)|=|(0)|=|(O) |_________| (0)|=|(0)|=|(O)||-|\ ======================================================== [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12922	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 4/22/2001
Subject: Where's the domes?

I don't want anybody on list buying this thing and then whining the got cheated out of two domes.eBay item# 1137602929 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12923	From: noramz@webtv.net	Date: 4/22/2001
Subject: Smoking AF Alco

On 4-16-01 John Eichmann wrote:             ..."I recall seeing an AF Alco at the NASG '98 Worcester Convention which had been modified for smoke. Looked really great! Can't remember the name of the fellow who developed it (he's probably on this list), but it seems to me that he was a member of the Crescent City club in New Orleans. He was going to send me a plan for modification,..." John,           What I did with my Silver Rocket was scratch build a smoke unit to fit in the dummy A unit. I used galvanized tin to make a box with one end open and with a removable cover. At the open end I mounted a fan. I used a small hobby motor and made fan blades by cutting a disc out of tin, slicing it in four places, and bending the segments to make blades. I soldered that to a small round piece of brass with a small hole in it for a friction fit on the motor shaft. I had to add some cowling in the open end of the box to keep the smoke from coming back out around the fan. Into the cover I soldered some brass tubing and shaped it to fit the filed out exhaust hole in the shell. For a wick I used some attic insulation fiberglass. The nichrome wire I got from Tom Barker years ago. I ran two pieces of insulated solid 22 ga. wire through small holes in the box to hold the ends of the nichrome wire and wick in place in the air stream (and also for power, of course). The ends of the wick then run down into more fiberglass packed along the bottom of the box - similar to the way ACG made the smoke units in the steam engines except that mine is made as one chamber. I wanted it to smoke at slow speeds so I had to get really fancy with the electrical design. I made the nichrome winding in two sections, each one to heat up at a very low voltage. Then I connected them to a relay which at low track voltage connects them in parallel and at higher track voltage, to keep them from burning out, connects them in series. The relay is controlled by a transistor and pot so I can adjust at what voltage the parallel/series transition takes place. I wish I could send some pictures or diagrams but I can't do that with my WebTV. So I hope this description helps. Any questions, feel free to ask. I know I haven't covered every minute detail.            When I built the next smoke unit to put in my GP7 I simplified the design. I made only a single nichrome winding, again to work on low voltage, but this time controlled it with a voltage regulator, eliminating the need for the relay setup. I used a pot with the voltage regulator to be able to vary the voltage and thus the amount of smoke output. At first I didn't know if a single small element by itself would produce enough smoke but indeed it does, even coming out of both stacks on the GP7. I don't remember what motor I used for the fan in the PA but in the GP7 I have a 3 volt Mabuchi Motor (model FA 130) powered by a voltage regulator set to 3 volts. This is a separate regulator from the one powering the smoke element. All of the voltage regulators I refer to are the LM317T.           In both engines I have a piece of thick cardboard between the top of the smoke unit and shell to help insulate the plastic shell from the heat produced by the smoke unit.           I have begun construction of a third smoke unit using sheet brass instead of galvanized tin. I had trouble a few times trying to solder the tin. The brass takes the solder so much better. Happy RR'ing Norman Crescent City S Gaugers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12924	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 4/22/2001
Subject: Re: Speaking of Lionel Flyer rolling stock......

Rick wrote: >I had posted a while back of my first purchase of a SHS >reefer "Billboard" car. Great car!! I gave it a slight push on a >small oval of track the other day, and it's still rolling!! Ok....I >made that up,...but do they really roll! They sure do, don't they? Something similar happened to me after converting a Lionel 3-deck auto carrier to S with SHS trucks (and I am NOT making this up.) I loaded the car with one even dozen diecast metal autos. It must've weighed a couple of pounds. I railed it onto a section of straight track which I thought was level, and immediately turned away to get something else. When I turned back to where I'd set the auto carrier, it was gone! It was several feet down the line, merrily coasting away from me by gravity power alone. I don't think I've ever seen trucks that roll better than SHS. >seems Lionel changed the coupler slightly, just enough so the SHS >car won't couple. The angle of the dangle isn't big enough from what >I can see on the newer Flyer car. (smaller coupler it seems) >If it ain't broke, why do they always try to fix it??? That's a mystery alright. But it does seem to be Lionel's way. Maybe Lionel was just trying to remind us that they care. Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12925	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/22/2001
Subject: Re: Hartoy Tractor Trailer

Jack If you get a bunch of reasonable offers, let me know! I only have one of these truck sets. They're too cool! I understand that KayBee closed out a bunch of them at their "factory" stores, but I didn't catch them then--RATS! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12926	From: Clay Buckage	Date: 4/23/2001
Subject: Re: Gilbert Get together

Doug...... The Gilbert Get-together is a York, Pennsylvania event thanks for your interest Clay "Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men???" "The Shadow Knows!" Clay Buckage Dave's Twacks & Twains Box 388 Tatamy, Pa. 18085 clay@... www.davestnt.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Douglass Allen To: cbuckage@... Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2001 12:04 PM Subject: Gilbert Get together Where is it.? New Haven.? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12927	From: cbuckage@stokeselectric.com	Date: 4/23/2001
Subject: Fwd: Re: Gilbert Get-Together Spring 2001 - shirts?

------- Start of forwarded message ------- Subject: Re: Gilbert Get-Together Spring 2001 - shirts? To: riechert@... From: clay@... Cc: S-Trains@egroups.com Date: 23 Apr 2001 04:33:52 PDT On Sat, 21 April 2001, "Jerry Riechert" wrote: > > For those of us not going to York how about some more info on the shirts > you mentioned? > Jerry..... We are offering a yellow golf shirt w/blue stitching one breast has the GILBERT logo and the other breast has AMERICAN FLYER on it. Same logos in blue are stitched on a long sleeve denim. the golf shirt is $30.00 and the denim is $40.00. We won't be able to ship any orders until we return from york. thanks for your interest Clay My apologies if this message is duplicated a little problem w/my email ------- End of forwarded message ------- "Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?" "The Shadow Knows!" Clay Buckage Dave's Twacks & Twains Box 388 Tatamy, Pa. 18085 www.davestnt.com clay@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12928	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 4/23/2001
Subject: Cass recommendations

Thanks everyone for your helpful tips and past experiences. If all goes well, which I hope it does for you, perhaps I'll see you at Mecca, I mean York, on Friday. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12929	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 4/23/2001
Subject: B&O ALL ABOARD WEEKEND Days

Anyone been to ALL ABOARD WEEKEND at the B&O Museum in Baltimore. It's this Saturday and Sunday. Worth going to? http://www.borail.org/calendar.cfm [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12930	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 4/23/2001
Subject: Large vs Small Motor

At the risk of touching off a holy war, what are the pros and cons of large motors vs small motors on 336 and other AF steamers. I remember seeing in a thread several weeks ago that someone thought the larger armatures wore down faster. What is the difference in tractive effort etc... When anticipating a purchase of this size, like to know all I can. Thanks, Tom _---_---_---______--__--___+-----+||] [||####### B & O #####|______||_____ || pjpennington@... __| [][] |__ || ||_______________________/ _| B&O |___\_|| | ||| | | | | | | / | 4212 | # ||| | []|=|==================o=====o==================|=|[] /|-||(0)|=|(0)|=|(O) |_________| (0)|=|(0)|=|(O)||-|\ ======================================================== [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12931	From: David	Date: 4/23/2001
Subject: Re: Large vs Small Motor

I don't know much on the technical differences, but I know by pure observation my 336 and 313 with large motors seem to glide along smoother, quieter, and with seemingly less effort than those with standard motors.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12932	From: riechert@qwest.net	Date: 4/23/2001
Subject: Re: shirts

Clay, Thanks for the reply. You wouldn't happen to have any pictures of the shirts, would you? I tried your web site but, as you know, it isn't finished yet. Also how do you handle payment? Jerry > On Sat, 21 April 2001, "Jerry Riechert" wrote: > We are offering a yellow golf shirt w/blue stitching > one breast has the GILBERT logo and the other breast > has AMERICAN FLYER on it. Same logos in blue are > stitched on a long sleeve denim. the golf shirt > is $30.00 and the denim is $40.00. We won't be able > to ship any orders until we return from york. > > thanks for your interest > Clay --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Panda Mail. Check your regular email account away from home free! http://www.pandamail.net

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12933	From: sgriggs@umich.edu	Date: 4/23/2001
Subject: Re: Large vs Small Motor

--- In S-Trains@y..., "David" <Dave0616@a...> wrote: > I don't know much on the technical differences, but I know by pure > observation my 336 and 313 with large motors seem to glide along > smoother, quieter, and with seemingly less effort than those with > standard motors. A lot of people say that locomotives with large motors run faster than those with small motors. I'm not sure this is an advantage, given that it's often necessary to run AF steamers at 90 or above to see much smoke output.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12934	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 4/23/2001
Subject: large versus small motors

Some small motor engines can have as much speed as large motor engines, assuming you're running just the engine by itself. The main advantage to large motor engines is their pulling/climbing power. Large motor engines will generally pull more with less effort (heat) and wear than their small motor counterparts. Personally, I've found flat-commutator large motors run with a shade more strength than their sister barrel-commutator large motor engines. Try some of each and enjoy their differences. Variety makes training fun.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12935	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 4/23/2001
Subject: ANOTHER 336 QUESTION

Did the 336 come with both large & small motors....Ya still on the trail of the rat that sold me a 332 as a 336.....Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12936	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 4/23/2001
Subject: How a steam engine works.

Not that I think you don't already know, but this is a neat web site about how lots of things work - - even diesels for those so inclined. http://www.howstuffworks.com/steam.htm [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12937	From: Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S.	Date: 4/23/2001
Subject: [Commercial] Project Status at B.T.S.

Howdy Friends Here is the status on several of our S Scale projects: BL-2 ---- Have received the frame and fuel tank casting and will wrap up the instructions in about ten days. All the detail parts are bagged ready to go into the box. And the caster has promised the first batch of castings nlt May 10 so we will have them in hand for the Spree. http://www.btsrr.com/btsbl2.htm Saw the post this morning from Des Plaines Hobbies and I hope those of you wanting BL-2s will immediately support Ron's decal program. Since we are using American Models drive components, you can order the Hi-Rail DC version. PRR/Ma & Pa Bobber ---- The castings have arrived from the orient for the project and have been sent to Pennsylvania Heritage Models so they can do the etchings and assembly. Tom has not given us a firm delivery date, but I know it will be as soon as possible. http://www.btsrr.com/bts9006.htm Cabin Creek Coal Tipples ---- All pre-ordered kits have been shipped. We are cutting the last of the run now and expect it to be sold out soon. http://www.master-creations.com/coalmast.htm 2-8-0 ---- The #43 kits will be here very shortly. Our builder, John G., is packing them this week as he finally got the last of the parts back from the brass caster. R-T-R models of #41-43 will be along soon. John G. has added another gent to the group building the models so we now have four guys involved. It took a bit of time to get them up to speed, but it will make things better in the future. Sn3 2-8-2 ---- The East Broad Top #12 2-8-2 is just about finished. John G. is working day and night to have the sample model here for the Spree. THE MOVE ---- Aside for several aching muscles, it is going well. We expect to have it done by Sunday night, so the new phone and fax numbers will be in effect on Monday April 30. Please update your files!!! Look forward to seeing many of you at the Spring S Spree. Until then, Take care, Bill -- ============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 *** After April 30 *** Phone: 813-643-1105 FAX: 813-681-7326 B.T.S. http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12938	From: David	Date: 4/23/2001
Subject: Re: ANOTHER 336 QUESTION

--- In S-Trains@y..., anormal1@a... wrote: > Did the 336 come with both large & small motors....Ya still on the trail > of the rat that sold me a 332 as a 336.....Mike S. Yes, the 336 came both ways as did the 313, and 326.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12939	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 4/23/2001
Subject: Here it is Boys, the MTH GABE the Lamplighter already on eBay!

Well, I found this on eBay, so I guess MTH is shipping Gabe! The link is below. Enjoy.... http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1138005106

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12940	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 4/23/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] [Commercial] Project Status at B.T.S.

Very nice looking BL-2 Larry Jackman "Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S." wrote: >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12941	From: TWYLA STARR	Date: 4/23/2001
Subject: 4-8-4 tender frame

I recently purchased a 4-8-4 tender with the numbers PA 8913 on the frame. It had no trucks so I don't know if it is S or 3/16 O. Can anyone identify it by that number? Thanks in advance, J.R. Starr [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12942	From: loubaldi@aol.com	Date: 4/23/2001
Subject: Re: 4-8-4 tender frame

--- In S-Trains@y..., "TWYLA STARR" <starr007@f...> wrote: > I recently purchased a 4-8-4 tender with the numbers PA 8913 on the frame. It had no trucks so I don't know if it is S or 3/16 O. Can anyone identify it by that number? Thanks in advance, J.R. Starr > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] J.R., Triple 'S' Supplies Parts Catalog 2001 page 21 lists the description as 'Northern Tender Base for 3/16" 'O' Gauge'. Hope this helps. Lou

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12943	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 4/23/2001
Subject: Re: ANOTHER 336 QUESTION

In a message dated 4/23/01 7:57:21 PM, Dave0616@... writes: << Did the 336 come with both large & small motors....Ya still on the trail > of the rat that sold me a 332 as a 336.....Mike S. Yes, the 336 came both ways as did the 313, and 326. >> Well, not quite, if you please. The 313 and the 326 came both ways, but the 336 came from the factory only with the large motor. Greenberg has this listed incorrectly, BTW. Hope this helps. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12944	From: Richard Cataldi	Date: 4/23/2001
Subject: Re: Large vs Small Motor

I operate in scale and have no idea of the specific motors you are comparing. But, it is almost always better to use the largest motor that will fit. It should pull less current for any given train and speed combination, will be quieter, and smoother. It may allow you to operate at a slower speed, if you have any desire to do so. Higher speed is certainly possible, depending upon the design speed of the motor. I would not expect a larger armature to wear down faster, though it is possible that bearings and other contacting surfaces will wear faster. The one problem with cramming a larger motor into a locomotive is that there will be less air around the motor to cool it if you run the locomotive for long periods of time. The larger mass of the motor will hold the heat longer and take longer to overheat than a smaller motor, but then it will have less air cooling. For a display layout where you plan to run the same locomotive for hours on end, you're much better off with a larger motor if there is some kind of cooling ability. Otherwise, a smaller motor is better. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Pennington" <pjpennington@...> To: "S-Trains" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 3:48 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Large vs Small Motor > At the risk of touching off a holy war, what are the pros and cons of large > motors vs small motors on 336 and other AF steamers. I remember seeing > in a thread several weeks ago that someone thought the larger armatures wore > down faster. What is the difference in tractive effort etc... When > anticipating > a purchase of this size, like to know all I can. Thanks, Tom > > _---_---_---______--__--___+-----+||] > [||####### B & O #####|______||_____ > || pjpennington@... __| [][] |__ || > ||_______________________/ _| B&O |___\_|| > | ||| | | | | | | / | 4212 | # ||| | > []|=|==================o=====o==================|=|[] > /|-||(0)|=|(0)|=|(O) |_________| (0)|=|(0)|=|(O)||-|\ > ======================================================== > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12945	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 4/23/2001
Subject: Re: Walking the halls of York

Dear Gilbertphiles, Will be enjoying the extended version of York for three and one half days, and I would be delighted to meet and chat with any of you during the quest for goodies. Have fun, and happy hunting! Bob Bubeck

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12946	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 4/23/2001
Subject: Re: ANOTHER 336 QUESTION

Beg to differ with you. I have a 336 that my dad bought new that has a small motor. My guess is that if the factory "only" made them with large motors, some probably got out when large motors weren't available or during a transition from large to small motors. Roger Petrella Franktown, CO rbubeck327@... wrote: > In a message dated 4/23/01 7:57:21 PM, Dave0616@... writes: > > << Did the 336 come with both large & small motors....Ya still on > the trail > > of the rat that sold me a 332 as a 336.....Mike S. > > Yes, the 336 came both ways as did the 313, and 326. >> > > Well, not quite, if you please. The 313 and the 326 came both ways, but the > 336 came from the factory only with the large motor. Greenberg has this > listed incorrectly, BTW. Hope this helps. > > RB > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12947	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/23/2001
Subject: Re: Walking the halls of York

Lucky Stiff!! I'm Jealous! David D. out in Calif, working Saturday, as usual.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12948	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/23/2001
Subject: Re: Large vs Small Motor

I can see where this can be confusing to the non-AFaholic. The larger motor is longer, using a thicker field lamination and a longer armature. While I have no proof, I suspect the excessive commutator wear may be caused by the higher electrical load. If anyone has any scientific info on this, it would be great to hear it, as mine is just a "seat of the pants" analysis. Greater heat build up may be an issue, though I'd suspect the "larger" motor might run cooler? I'm gonna have to dig my big locos out of storage, I'm curious if my K335 has a large motor! If my 336 doesn't, then it means Mr. Fay must have had it repaired sometime in the 50s and the repair shop substitued what was available out here in the then unpopulated far northern California. His son Mike really ran the wheels off this loco! S' David D. PS Hmm, how many of you know the personal history of some of your collection? I only know about the ones I got before my first college years. (except the K335, I bought it off a hobby shop shelf in Villa Park back in '70--for $35!)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12949	From: Al Paolozzi	Date: 4/23/2001
Subject: Re: Large vs Small Motor

How would you like to double your money? Ha Ha ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> To: "S-Trains" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>; "Tom Pennington" <pjpennington@...>; "Richard Cataldi" <richard.cataldi@...> Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2001 2:20 PM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Large vs Small Motor > I can see where this can be confusing to the non-AFaholic. The larger motor > is longer, using a thicker field lamination and a longer armature. While I > have no proof, I suspect the excessive commutator wear may be caused by the > higher electrical load. If anyone has any scientific info on this, it would > be great to hear it, as mine is just a "seat of the pants" analysis. > Greater heat build up may be an issue, though I'd suspect the "larger" > motor might run cooler? > I'm gonna have to dig my big locos out of storage, I'm curious if my > K335 has a large motor! If my 336 doesn't, then it means Mr. Fay must have > had it repaired sometime in the 50s and the repair shop substitued what was > available out here in the then unpopulated far northern California. His son > Mike really ran the wheels off this loco! > S' > David D. > PS Hmm, how many of you know the personal history of some of your > collection? I only know about the ones I got before my first college years. > (except the K335, I bought it off a hobby shop shelf in Villa Park back in > '70--for $35!) > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12950	From: Al Paolozzi	Date: 4/23/2001
Subject: Re: ANOTHER 336 QUESTION

From my experience repairing Flyer over 10 years I saw many 336's with small motors as well as large. I think it came both with large and small. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger V. Petrella Jr." <rogerpjr@...> To: <rbubeck327@...> Cc: <Dave0616@...>; <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 8:02 PM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Re: ANOTHER 336 QUESTION > Beg to differ with you. I have a 336 that my dad bought new that has a small > motor. My guess is that if the factory "only" made them with large motors, some > probably got out when large motors weren't available or during a transition from > large to small motors. > > Roger Petrella > Franktown, CO > > > rbubeck327@... wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/23/01 7:57:21 PM, Dave0616@... writes: > > > > << Did the 336 come with both large & small motors....Ya still on > > the trail > > > of the rat that sold me a 332 as a 336.....Mike S. > > > > Yes, the 336 came both ways as did the 313, and 326. >> > > > > Well, not quite, if you please. The 313 and the 326 came both ways, but the > > 336 came from the factory only with the large motor. Greenberg has this > > listed incorrectly, BTW. Hope this helps. > > > > RB > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12951	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 4/23/2001
Subject: Can motor conversion kits.

In a message dated 04/23/2001 11:29:15 PM Mountain Daylight Time, S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes: > > Thanks to the many of you that have bought the new can motor conversion kit > that we are manufacturing and marketing. I hope you are all satisfied. I > haven't received any negative comments so far. I just want to let any of you that have been considering trying one, that it is soon to go into dealership distribution and the introductory price that is now in effect will go bye-bye. If any of you still want any at the current price please email me soon. A price refresher....Rectified for four step AC operation $25. Unrectified for DC operation $20. Shipping is $4 for up to 5 units. Steve Blackburn TCA, NASG > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12952	From: John DeFelice	Date: 4/24/2001
Subject: (no subject)

Hello, Does anyone know if the York train meet this weekend is an open event?? Are guests welcome ? If so would I need a sponser to attend? I was told that there would be mini shows/meets at some of the hotels during the week, Does anyone know which hotel/motels would be holding them?? Which days are they?? Thanks in advance for the info.... you are welcome to contact me off the list if you wisk John [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12953	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 4/24/2001
Subject: NP & CHESSIE GP-20

I have relisted my NP set with no reserve Item #1138249700 The Chessie GP -20 is # 1138243408 I'd rather someone on this list get a great deal on the NP set than a total stranger...It comes with an Extra "B" unit & an extra pass. Car There is a crack / seperation above the drum head on the obs. car.., Very small and easily fixed...... that I guess was pretty much the case with most of these sets....Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12954	From: Rick Evans	Date: 4/24/2001
Subject: Fwd: Reproduction AF cars (a must see)

Thought I would pass this along,..sorry if it has been posted before, Thought it was, but couldn't find it! Rick. --- In UTtrains-americanflyer@y..., Al <alr@m...> wrote: **((((Hi Everyone, Thought you would like to know about a web site for American Flyer/S Gauge that has new reproduction cars (made by S Helper Service) of old famous American Flyer cars (you know, the ones you always wanted but could not afford). Click on the following address to go there: http://www.boysrailroadclub.com The owner is John Huster and he seems to be very nice and easy to work with.Enjoy,Al)))***

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12955	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 4/24/2001
Subject: Fwd: NP & CHESSIE GP-20

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12956	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 4/24/2001
Subject: NP SET & CHESSIE

I though I would let you know I relised my NP set with no reserve the # is 1138249700 The Chessie GP-20 is #1138243408....The NP set is going to be sold no matter what ...One of you might as well get a good deal on it ....It comes with an extra "B Railsounds " unit and an extra pass. car It does have the minor crack above the Drumhead as did most of these sets....Very minor fix ....Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12957	From: David A. Highfield	Date: 4/24/2001
Subject: Re: Horseshoe Curve

I went to the Horseshoe Curve outside of Altoona, Pa. this weekend. It is a National Historical Landmark with an interesting museum, gift shop, and great track-side viewing. But beware. Once the trees come into bloom, much of the curve will be obstructed. They are trying to raise funds for the trimming of trees, but need $10,000 more to do the job in 2002. About 60-70 trains appear each day but the schedule varies since most are freight. Also, check the net for directions. The location is well outside of Altoona, and a bit off the main highways. --Dave

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12958	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 4/24/2001
Subject: Re: Horseshoe Curve

You know, about 25 years ago I used to live in the little town of East Freedom, PA, just down the mountain from Altoona. I must have driven past that curve hundreds of times. Guess what? Never once thought to take any pictures! Now I guess I need to figure out places here in CO to not take any pictures worth saving! Roger Petrella Franktown, CO "David A. Highfield" wrote: > I went to the Horseshoe Curve outside of Altoona, Pa. this weekend. It is a > National Historical Landmark with an interesting museum, gift shop, and > great track-side viewing. But beware. > Once the trees come into bloom, much of the curve will be obstructed. They > are trying to raise funds for the trimming of trees, but need $10,000 more > to do the job in 2002. About 60-70 trains appear each day but the schedule > varies since most are freight. Also, check the net for directions. The > location is well outside of Altoona, and a bit off the main highways. > --Dave > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12959	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 4/24/2001
Subject: Re: Walking the halls of York

OK, I am relatively new, not a member of anything yet, what is going on at York, when, and is it open to anyone. Thanks, Tom At 02:11 PM 4/21/01 -0700, David Dewey wrote: >Lucky Stiff!! >I'm Jealous! >David D. >out in Calif, working Saturday, as usual. > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ _---_---_---______--__--___+-----+||] [||####### B & O #####|______||_____ || pjpennington@... __| [][] |__ || ||_______________________/ _| B&O |___\_|| | ||| | | | | | | / | 4212 | # ||| | []|=|==================o=====o==================|=|[] /|-||(0)|=|(0)|=|(O) |_________| (0)|=|(0)|=|(O)||-|\ ======================================================== [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12960	From: Robert D Eves III	Date: 4/24/2001
Subject: S Scale wood kits

Have S Scale wood kits for sale. Have lots of them.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12961	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/24/2001
Subject: Re: Walking the halls of York

Tom, It is the Eastern Div.(i think) of TCA (train collectors of America?) big meet. Sort of the Mecca of toy trains. If you're into old cars, it is the Hershey of toy trains.YES, you do have to be a member to get in. Not sure, but think a member can take you in ONE day as a guest. It is so far away from California that I've never checked out the details, though an AF fan I know near here does go often! S David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12962	From: gino restivo	Date: 4/24/2001
Subject: re ; york train shows ...

mon to thurs 22-26 Valencia Ballroom show ( george st ) wed -thurs ,all hotel parking lots ( and most rooms ) trains for sale .. fri - sat york county fair grounds , TCA national show and yes you must be a member to get in or go in 1 time only as a guest of a member , then you must be a member to get in again ... drive safely , park and take the shuttle bus around to the various place's .... big variety of S flyer at the ballroom , bought a bunch of nice pc's ... i'll be their with some trains and parts gino . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12963	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 4/25/2001
Subject: York

The TCA train show at the York Fairgrounds is open to TCA members and guests (you need a TCA member to sponsor you as a guest) on Friday 9-6, and Saturday 9-3? It is not open to the public. However many of the dealers selling at the TCA show will be selling at three motels and a ballroom today (Wednesday) and tomorrow. The motels are the Holiday Inn on Rte. 30 near I-83, the Holi(dome?) - west on Rte. 30 by the big shopping mall, and the Best Western on Rte. 30 near the Holidome. Dealers also set up at the Valencia Ballroom, an old time dance hall on N. George Street in downtown York. Anyone can buy at these sites. The biggest setups are at the two Holiday Inns with dealers set up in the ballrooms and in the parking lots. There are just a few dealers at the Best Western, and the Valencia has had little Flyer lately. Some dealers will selling out of their rooms at the Holiday Inns in the evenings. If you can get to York today or tomorrow it is well worth your while. Roger Delthony

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12964	From: Al	Date: 4/25/2001
Subject: GILBERT HALL OF SCIENCE

Does anyone have or know where I can find a good clear picture of the A.C. Gilbert Co. building in NYC, known as GILBERT HALL OF SCIENCE? I have seen the photo on The R.F. Giardina, Co. web site but I am hunting for a much better picture. Also, does anyone know the exact wording on each level of windows on the building: Here is what I can make out (I'm not sure they are all correct): 1st floor: GILBERT HALL OF SCIENCE 2nd floor: ELECTRICAL APPLIANCES 3rd floor: (first word ???) SCIENTIFIC TOYS 4th floor: CHEMISTRY ? (second word ???) 5th floor: ERECTOR ENGINEERING 6th floor: AMERICAN FLYER TRAINS (above windows) TOP: THE A.C. GILBERT CO. I appreciate any help. Al Rawdon

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12965	From: Thomas Stoltz	Date: 4/25/2001
Subject: Re: Can motor conversion kits.

Has anyone heard any comments yet? I would like to hear some feedback. Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: <boss31@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 1:51 AM Subject: [S-Trains] Can motor conversion kits. > In a message dated 04/23/2001 11:29:15 PM Mountain Daylight Time, > S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes: > > > > > Thanks to the many of you that have bought the new can motor conversion kit > > that we are manufacturing and marketing. I hope you are all satisfied. I > > haven't received any negative comments so far. > > I just want to let any of you that have been considering trying one, that it > is soon to go into dealership distribution and the introductory price that is > now in effect will go bye-bye. > > If any of you still want any at the current price please email me soon. > > A price refresher....Rectified for four step AC operation $25. Unrectified > for DC operation $20. Shipping is $4 for up to 5 units. > > Steve Blackburn TCA, NASG > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12966	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/25/2001
Subject: Looking for Ross H. Tipps in So. Calif.

Hi all, I'm hoping someone knows Ross. I've been unable to contact him through the email address he gave on eBay. Maybe something happened to him, or since it's an AOL address, maybe something happened to aol! (ross6120hank@...) Thanks! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12967	From: Rick Evans	Date: 4/26/2001
Subject: Re: GILBERT HALL OF SCIENCE

Lets see,....from what I remember from my youth,... Top----THE A.C. GILBERT CO. 6th Floor---AMERICAN FLYER TRAINS 5th Floor---ERECTOR-ENGINEERING 4th Floor---CHEMISTRY-MICROSCOPES 3rd Floor---GILBERT SCIENTIFIC TOYS 2nd Floor---ELECTRICAL APPLIANCES 1st Floor---GILBERT HALL OF SCIENCE Ok, ok, ok.......I was never there, I found a picture on page 183 of Paul C. Nelson's book, "FAMOUS AMERICAN FLYER TRAINS". Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12968	From: busyboy	Date: 4/26/2001
Subject: ross6120hank@a0l.com

David: Your internal conflict over zero gauge is affecting other parts of your life! Try ross6120hank@... . It's aol, not a0l. Chris

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12969	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/26/2001
Subject: Re: ross6120hank@a0l.com

Hi Chris, and all. Oops, my mistyping! Yes, Chris, you have the correct address, and the one I've been using. Unfortunately the "fix" ain't that easy! I have to stop posting after midnight, I keep making spelling/grammer mistakes! S' David D. PS Still looking for this guy! PPS What internal conflict? I KNOW S is SUPERIOR! ;-)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12970	From: wayne broadhead	Date: 4/26/2001
Subject: Gabe the Lamplighter

Is it true that the MTH Gabe is ready and shipping?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12971	From: Tom Robichaud	Date: 4/26/2001
Subject: Re: Gabe the Lamplighter

Yo: I picked up my Gabe yesterday from my pusher. Yes, they are at your local dealers. Tommy wayne broadhead <afvair@...> on 04/26/2001 11:26:12 AM Please respond to afvair@... To: S Trains <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> cc: Subject: [S-Trains] Gabe the Lamplighter Is it true that the MTH Gabe is ready and shipping? S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12972	From: Al Paolozzi	Date: 4/26/2001
Subject: Re: Gabe the Lamplighter

Yes, I got a call from the shop i ordered from. It is on it's way to me already. surprise surprise surprise! ----- Original Message ----- From: "wayne broadhead" <afvair@...> To: "S Trains" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2001 8:26 AM Subject: [S-Trains] Gabe the Lamplighter > Is it true that the MTH Gabe is ready and shipping? > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12973	From: busyboy	Date: 4/26/2001
Subject: Re: ross6120hank@a0l.com

Grammar. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> To: "busyboy" <busyboy@...>; "slist" <s-trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2001 1:13 PM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] ross6120hank@... > Hi Chris, and all. > Oops, my mistyping! Yes, Chris, you have the correct address, and the > one I've been using. Unfortunately the "fix" ain't that easy! > I have to stop posting after midnight, I keep making spelling/grammer > mistakes! > S' > David D. > PS Still looking for this guy! > PPS What internal conflict? I KNOW S is SUPERIOR! ;-) > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12974	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/26/2001
Subject: Re: ross6120hank@a0l.com

Hi all, again! AAAUGH!! Yep, wrong word. Grammer was my Grandmother's name (Started by my cousin, her first grandchild, and it stuck, even to her tombstone!) GRAMMAR is what I blew on my first posting. Actually, I'm not doing bad for a dyslexic! Anyway, I now have a phone number that has an answering machine on it, maybe I can chase this guy down! Now if I could remember if I ordered a MTH Gabe, and if so, who from?? I'm too young for Alzheimer's, aren't I? S' David D. PS I even set my computer's clock before I sent this too! Gotta find a new battery for it.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12975	From: David	Date: 4/27/2001
Subject: YORK!!

York was very good for once. There was lots of nice Flyer there. Some was rediculously priced to border on the insane, especially boxed accessories, but there was plenty priced reasonably, and more bargains than usual. All the halls were very crowded, and the weather was really cooperative. Geeezzz traffic was even good this time!! My bargains included an EX 741 Handcar Shed only for $75, an EX 585 Tool Shed with half a box for $50, a 695 Reverse Loop Relay for $30, and an EX 593 Switch tower for $125. I also obtained a few more cabooses for the caboose collection. I'm now down to 5 and I am done with the cabeeces. I saw many other reasonably priced items, just could not afford to take it all home! Anyone else do York??

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12976	From: David	Date: 4/27/2001
Subject: 695 Reverse Loop Relay

Can anyone supply me with, or point me in the right direction on obtaining a wiring diagram for this accessory? I haven't a clue as to how to hook it up. Thanks!!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12977	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 4/27/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, April 29, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12978	From: wayned9@msn.com	Date: 4/27/2001
Subject: transformers

What transformers,in terms of wattage or model #'s, are you guys recommending these days that will run the new and old Flyer trains. (ie: AC & not right now contemplating anything in the latest in automation.) This would be used to run only one or two trains at a time, several turnouts and lighted accessories. thanks.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12979	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 4/28/2001
Subject: Replacement can motors

Most of you know by now that the can motor we developed to bring new health to ailing Flyer steamers is going into retail/wholesale distributorship on May 1st. This list is the only place they have been sold up until now. What better place to test it out than with a bunch of know how people? I have had nothing but good reports so far. The introductory price that we have been selling them for is available only until 11:59 PM Mountain time on April 30th. If there are any foot draggers out there, "time's a wastin' " Regards and thanks to all who have responded....Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12980	From: Walt Danylak	Date: 4/28/2001
Subject: Re: YORK!!

--- In S-Trains@y..., "David" <Dave0616@a...> wrote: York was very good for once. There was lots of nice Flyer there. Some was rediculously priced to border on the insane, especially boxed accessories, but there was plenty priced reasonably, and more bargains than usual. All the halls were very crowded, and the weather was really cooperative. Geeezzz traffic was even good this time!! My bargains included an EX 741 Handcar Shed only for $75, an EX 585 Tool Shed with half a box for $50, a 695 Reverse Loop Relay for $30, and an EX 593 Switch tower for $125. I also obtained a few more cabooses for the caboose collection. I'm now down to 5 and I am done with the cabeeces. I saw many other reasonably priced items, just could not afford to take it all home! Anyone else do York?? David, Just returned from York. Attended the Gilbert meeting Thursday night. Some interesting items were shown including a pair of fake Frontiersman cars numbered 28 & 38 instead of 20 & 30. It's really buyer beware if you don't know what you're buying. The MTH coal loader was all over the place. Best price I saw was $122. Most were selling for $125. Gabe was there too, but everybody wanted $150. Lionel did not, unless I missed seeing them, have the 4 "new" AF cars on display in their tent. I didn't even bother to ask why. As far as I'm concerned, Lionel has never done anything with AF and never will. It looks like the NYC Empire State Express will be the next item that AM will offer. Some dealers were taking orders. Prices start at $369.95 for the scale version of the locomotive only and sets start at $619.95. As I understand, the AM passenger cars were based on the Empire State Express passenger cars. The SHS F-3's should be available in May. They are now somewhere in the ocean on their way to NJ. York was well attended despite all the other shows that run all week. I would estimate that about 20,000 were there. Walt

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12981	From: David	Date: 4/28/2001
Subject: Re: 695 Reverse Loop Relay

Thanks to ALL who have written with scans and written descriptions on hooking up the reverse loop relay. Take care... Dave

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12982	From: wayne broadhead	Date: 4/28/2001
Subject: Does anyone have Joe's Train Shoppe's phone?

If anyone is online, do you have Joes Train Shoppe's phone number and email address? I looked on Pauls site and could not find it, and also in the S Guagian magazine. THanks, alot, Wayne Broadhead (in need of a Gabe real fast)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12983	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 4/28/2001
Subject: test

test to see if address is correct I am out of town right now.....If you see my smoke listed on E-bay that is an e-bay price The list price is lower and the type is different...I will explain more later...I have 3-4 types that I am marketing at this time...there is a demand for the different types....Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12984	From: wayne broadhead	Date: 4/28/2001
Subject: Thank you

Thank you Keith and Tom for the information about Joes......I have now what I need. Thanks, Wayne (in need of a Gabe)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12985	From: Rick Evans	Date: 4/28/2001
Subject: To the Sunday nite chat gang.....

Might not make chat,....headin' out to the big city of Pozo, Calif. (pop. about 10-15 people!)..to see Little Feat and Leon Russell in an outdoor concert. Took a tour through a B-17 Bomber today,....not much of a "Train" weekend, but a busy one!! Oh wait,...we did see Amtrak today! Hope all are having a great weekend. Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12986	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/28/2001
Subject: Re: To the Sunday nite chat gang.....

Add me to the list of probably miss, might make it late, 7:30?PDT, not going to a concert, but to Chico for some "doin's" Y'all behave now, hear? ;-) S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12987	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 4/29/2001
Subject: Re: (no subject)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12988	From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi	Date: 4/29/2001
Subject: Accessories

Hi: Has anyone had the opportunity to compare the "L" accessories with the MTH ones? Are the L out as yet? I see some "American Flyer" Gabe the Lamplighter (49805) and operating sawmill (49806) being advertised for $91 and $71, respectively. These must be L products that haven't been manufactured as yet? Any comments, observations? Rance

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12989	From: Walt Danylak	Date: 4/29/2001
Subject: Fwd: Re: NYC Empire State Express

--- In S-Scale@y..., "Walt Danylak" <waltdanylak@c...> wrote: Received the following message from Ron: The ad in Classic Trains (not Classic Toy Trains) came out a month early. Anyway the set prices are the same as our other 4-6-2 sets except the set has 4 Budd cars. Engine only is $20 more. The decorators tell me we may be able to ship in July. But I would figure on later than that. Scale will ship with matching silver & black paint on the engine, hi-rail will be chrome and black on the engine. The Budd cars we made are based on the Empire State Express train. We now have the 4 car sets and extra coaches available for those who want the cars alone. ...RB Walt

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12990	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 4/29/2001
Subject: 695 track trips

I have seen the 695 track trip several times, but have no idea what it is used for or how it works. Any hints??? Thanks, Tom _---_---_---______--__--___+-----+||] [||####### B & O #####|______||_____ || pjpennington@... __| [][] |__ || ||_______________________/ _| B&O |___\_|| | ||| | | | | | | / | 4212 | # ||| | []|=|==================o=====o==================|=|[] /|-||(0)|=|(0)|=|(O) |_________| (0)|=|(0)|=|(O)||-|\ ======================================================== [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12991	From: sgriggs@umich.edu	Date: 4/29/2001
Subject: Command Control

I am building my first hirail S layout and have been giving a lot of thought recently to the wiring/control strategy. Originally, I had planned on wiring traditional electrical blocks and controlling the trains via the normal variable voltage method. But in the interest of simplifying wiring and improving operation, I have started looking at different command control systems. I've looked at the Digitrax website and their products (having been mostly designed for HO and smaller applications) have the benefit of small size. A big negative, however, is the fact that NMRA-standard DCC is inherently a DC (direct current) standard. I have no desire to obsolete my large AF AC transformers or the original AF locomotives that I would not be converting to command control, so this does not seem like a good alternative. Additionally, all of my equipment with onboard sound uses a DC trigger to activate horns/whistles and bells, so DC track power doesn't seem like a good alternative. I've also looked at the Lionel Trainmaster system and the new MTH DCS. At this point I'm focusing on the Lionel system, since MTH doesn't offer retrofit kits for non-command equipped engines. The Trainmaster command control system has the big advantage of being specifically designed for a toy train (read AC power) operating environment. Old technology AC transformers can still be used to power a layout, with the digital control signal superimposed. The system is designed to permit older, non command AC engines to be run on variable voltage controlled by the wireless transmitter. Operating accessories (such as switches) can also be operated from the handheld remote. Things like smoke output can be controlled completely independent from train speed on command-equipped locomotives. One potential drawback I have found is the size of retrofit boards available from TrainAmerica Studios (tastudios.com) and Digital Dynamics (digitdynam.com), but I think they may be able to fit into most S applications. Now, the big question: Has anyone attempted to convert S hirail (Flyer, AM, SHS, LTI Flyer) to command control (DCC or Trainmaster command control or other) and what was the outcome? For your equipment with electronic sound effects (LTI Railsounds, AM steamers and diesels w/ sound), were you able to integrate the original sounds with command control?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12992	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/29/2001
Subject: Re: 695 track trips

Tom Well, there is the 695 Track trip from 1946 and the 695 Reverse Loop Relay, two very different items. If you've seen the 695 trip many times, you're very lucky, I've only seen them in pictures. This trip works with the brass buttons on the chassis of the early steam locos. The brass buttons close the circuit between the two contact plates, activating the accessory (usually a signal). The 695 reverse loop relay uses other track trips to to reverse "polarity" automatically for reverse loop operation. Somewhat complex process to quickly write down, and I have to leave the house! So, maybe Tom J. can post about it, he's a whiz at these! S' David D. PS Y'all have fun at chat tonite, since we're car-pooling today, don't know if I'll get back in time to join you! Someone post some bad puns or corny jokes for me, don't want anyone to feel "left out"! ;-)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12993	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 4/29/2001
Subject: Lost or Stolen Trains

I need some advice. I recently ordered the last B&O Pacific and 4 passenger cars left at American Models. Ron shipped them FedEx. Somewhere along the way they were lost or stolen. FedEx sent me a proof of delivery that proves nothing. Four calls to their customer service department resulted in nothing but escalating frustration. Ron told me he insured the trains for $300. I paid just under $600. So, does anyone know how to get FedEx to respond? Is it possible to get FedEx to reimburse me for the entire $600? Will my home owner's insurance cover any of this this? Do many credit cards have lost/stolen purchases coverage? And most importantly, does anyone know where I can get an AM B&O Pacific? Thanks, Peter Ervin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12994	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 4/29/2001
Subject: Re: ANOTHER 336 QUESTION

In a message dated 4/23/01 11:35:58 PM, rogerpjr@... writes: << I have a 336 that my dad bought new that has a small motor. My guess is that if the factory "only" made them with large motors, some probably got out when large motors weren't available or during a transition from large to small motors. >> Dear Roger, Found your comment, which I found most interesting, when I returned from York. Nominally, the transition period would have been when the K335s were built in 1952. The Gilbert exploded diagrams call for the big motor for the K335 as well as for the 336. My K335 does have small motor. Interestingly, when we were compiling observations and experiences when we were putting the new TM AF guide together, the sum of the observations indicated that the small-motored 336s we all had observed looked like swaps for repair rather than the original factory installations. Accordingly, the small motors would have been what was in stock at a repair station and could have been handily used to quickly deal with problems. In any case, I would appreciate a quick recheck on your part (the plate stack for the field should be 1/2'' rather than 3/4" ) to ascertain that you have an original small motor in your (gift from boyhood) 336 plus any other history that you can relate. This information may help lay to rest a long-standing question about the motors in 336s. Sorry for the somewhat pedantic sounding post, but there is a lot of skepticism out there in Flyerland about small motors in 336s being factory original -- at least as first built before a return for repair. Thanks for your help. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12995	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 4/29/2001
Subject: Re: YORK!!

In a message dated 4/27/01 6:43:29 PM, Dave0616@... writes: << York was very good for once. There was lots of nice Flyer there. >> Aw geez, York is always good. :-)) It is a matter of personal perspective, but there was a fair amount of Flyer available but higher quality items were more limited in quantity and selection compared to my general past experience. There was a marked lack of nice steam and complete sets for sale. One fellow was trying, with spectacular lack of success, to sell some wildly overpriced M/OB and LN/OB stuff. Nonetheless, I managed to bring home a few tougher and interesting pieces for the ol' collection. By the way, I managed to play with a MTH Gabe that was hooked up for operation at the MTH display in the Holiday Inn -- it appeared to operate just fine. Gabe returns to the bottom of the tower with new authority and assurance. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12996	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 4/29/2001
Subject: Re: YORK!!

In a message dated 4/27/01 6:43:29 PM, Dave0616@... writes: << York was very good for once. There was lots of nice Flyer there. >> Aw geez, York is always good. :-)) It is a matter of personal perspective, but there was a fair amount of Flyer available but higher quality items were more limited in quantity and selection compared to my general past experience. There was a marked lack of nice steam and complete sets for sale. Nonetheless, I managed to bring home a few tougher and interesting original Gilbert for the ol' collection. One fellow was trying, with spectacular lack of success, to sell some wildly overpriced M/OB and LN/OB stuff. As for the new, I had an opportunity to play with a MTH Gabe that was hooked up for operation at the MTH display in the Holiday Inn -- it appeared to look and operate just fine. Gabe returns to the bottom of the tower with new authority and assurance. The new F-3s in a variety of road names at the SHS exhibit look great -- these should turn out to be nifty "puppies". These are on the boat and should be arriving soon, according to the good folks from Cliffwood, NJ. The new AM Budd passenger cars were on display and appear to be well done. The chrome on the applicable pieces is, perhaps, too much of a good thing and a bit overwhelming IMHO -- you'll see what I mean. Satin silver may be the better option. Lionel had the four new Flyonel freight cars on display on the bottom shelf near the floor where they could be easily missed -- need I say more? Great weather and super fun as usual!!! RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12997	From: David	Date: 4/29/2001
Subject: Re: ANOTHER 336 QUESTION

I made a special note to look at as many 336's as I could find at York. I found 2 small motor jobs, and 3 large motor jobs. None of the small motor units looked altered, at least recently. The soldering was old looking and grayish, and smooth/neat like factory. I had done repairs for 28 years, and recall seeing both types in these locos as well. I wished I would have taken note of the dates in the boilers and related motor types. One interesting point, there was a dealer at York selling repro Large Motor fields and armatures.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12998	From: David Garber	Date: 4/29/2001
Subject: York and Gabe

York was great. Good selection of operator pieces and some quality boxed collectors items. Prices were within reason except for one or two that had a lot of boxed,( some unopened )items at how to become a millionare prices. Got to play with MTH Gabe, the light must be turned on and off manually. i never tried this with a Gilbert Gabe but with the MTH one you can stop Gabe part-way down on his decent, works great. I'm quite sure that with a micro-switch and some double- faced tape and rewiring the light can be made to work automatically. had a great time, the weather was cool in the morning but warmed up nicely every day. Came back with a few flyer items and a gilbert kaster kit.Highly recomended trip to end the winter blues. David Garber

Group: S-Trains	Message: 12999	From: David	Date: 4/29/2001
Subject: Re: YORK!!

> One fellow was trying, with > spectacular lack of success, to sell some wildly overpriced M/OB and LN/OB > stuff. Gee was he in the White hall with the 24627 common caboose in EX for $45 type stuff, or maybe the Purple hall with the $395 586F station EX boxed and $175 EX boxed 760 type stuff?? :o)~~ Yeow!!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13000	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 4/29/2001
Subject: Re: Lost or Stolen Trains

Why was it only insured for $300? The seller / shipper is responsible for this in my opinion, unless you asked him to insure it for less than the actual value. If he under-insured it, and it didn't make it, than he should make good on it. And if American Models does not, I would be interested in knowing it, because I certainly would not want to deal with them! You after all really had nothing to do with it. The seller has the relationship with the shipper. He packed, gave it to the shipper, filled out the paperwork, etc. If he did not purchase enough insurance, that wasn't your error. This is just my opinion but I believe the law / standard practice will support my position. You can protest the item on your credit card, since you never received it. They will investigate, and perhaps do a charge back to the seller. It may take some time and hassel. But what exactly is the sellers stance on this situation? Inquiring minds want to know! Please keep us posted! Peter Ervin wrote: > I need some advice. I recently ordered the last B&O Pacific and 4 > passenger cars left at American Models. Ron shipped them FedEx. Somewhere > along the way they were lost or stolen. FedEx sent me a proof of delivery > that proves nothing. Four calls to their customer service department > resulted in nothing but escalating frustration. Ron told me he insured the > trains for $300. I paid just under $600. So, does anyone know how to get > FedEx to respond? Is it possible to get FedEx to reimburse me for the > entire $600? Will my home owner's insurance cover any of this this? Do > many credit cards have lost/stolen purchases coverage? >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13001	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 4/29/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, April 29, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13002	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 4/29/2001
Subject: Lost or Stolen Trains

Five hours and 20 minutes ago I posted a message about not getting an order from American Models for a B&O Pacific and passenger cars. Ron shipped them but I didn't receive them. So far I have received 7 responses, and it hasn't even been published on S-Trains. Is this list wonderful or what?!! I'll post a synopsis once I see what course of action to take. Additional replies will be appreciated. Many thanks, Peter Ervin

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13003	From: David Garber	Date: 4/29/2001
Subject: 335-336

I do not have a 336 but my K 335 has the small motor This is a one owner (me ) and no repair shop unit.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13004	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 4/29/2001
Subject: Re: Lost or Stolen Trains

paperwork, > etc. If he did not purchase enough insurance, that wasn't your error. This is > just my opinion but I believe the law / standard practice will support my > position. The law is not on his side. The courts have ruled when it is delivered to the shipping carrier, it becomes the buyers mdse. and the buyer is at risk. The buyer though has a claim against the carrier. Larry Jackson

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13005	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 4/29/2001
Subject: Re: Lost or Stolen Trains

Maybe, but if the seller failed to adequately insure the items.... If I were the seller I would get this settled soon. I know I am reconsidering purchasing from them. It is too risky under these circumstances! The seller made an error, and is not correcting it! Bad service at the least... lawrence jackman wrote: > > The law is not on his > side. The courts have > ruled when it is > delivered to the > shipping carrier, it > becomes the buyers > mdse. and the buyer is > at risk.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13006	From: Gerry Evans	Date: 4/29/2001
Subject: Re: Lost or Stolen Trains

PETER: You are not in the NASG roster, so I can't determine where you live. AM, of course, is in Michigan. I had a similar problem not involving trains or anything close to the amount of money you have at stake. I contacted my state attorney general's office here in Arizona about a parcel that was to be shipped to Missouri by a firm in Illinois whose call center is in Kansas from a fulfillment center in who knows what state. My AG's office said all they could do was have me fill out an Arizona form which they would forward to the Illinois AG. Sadly, the AZ AG's web site was down, so I couldn't d/l the form. Then I found the Illinois AG web site, d/l their form, and mailed it off with copies of my cancelled check. It took seven months from the time I placed my order until I got my money back from the firm located in Illinois thanks to the help of the Illinois' AG's office. The Michigan AG might be able to help you. If all else fails, you might try this route--long and lonely as it is. Gerry

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13007	From: David	Date: 4/29/2001
Subject: New AF Steam On The Horizon??

This is a very interesting snip from a posting on another board somewhere of a conversation at York between collectors and Lionels Madoxx (sp?) >>Also at the AOL dinner, Dick Madoxx (sp?) indicated that there would be a replacement program for the WP F-3's, that they were going to reissue them and currrent owners would have the option of returning their shells to get replacements. However, he did not say when! But it will happen at some point. Also some time later in the future, maybe a year or so out, another standard gauge set would come. ******And yes there will probably be an American Flyer steam engine made, maybe a Mikado, at some point also. The current AF items in the recent catalog sold very well, so maybe it will happen as well.******* <<

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13008	From: Walt Danylak	Date: 4/29/2001
Subject: Re: NYC Empire State Express

I have had several questions about the ESE. I don't really know any more than the rest of about it. As to what the sets consists of, I'll quote the info I have: King of Steam! December 1941 was the inaugural for the Empire State Express, a spectacular stainless-steel train built by the Edward G. Budd Co. for service between New York City and Detroit and Cleveland. Our Empire State set features: the J3a Hudson steam engine and 4 Empire State cars, authentically designed from official blueprints. All chrome plated in real chrome, die cast boiler, smoke and chug sounds, bell, whistle and headlight. 20 feet of track is also included. Sets prices starting at only $619.95. And the engine only starting at $369.95 (DC versions) It would appear from this, and a photo of 5429 shown with the ad, that the locomotive will indeed be a Hudson. No mention of 85' cars is made. That was my question to you guys. I'll check with Ron and see what else I can find out. Walt

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13009	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 4/29/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] New "S"tuff

Dear Ed, You are so correct about the "Golden Age of "S"" now being upon us. Our F-3s are indeed on the water and are expected later in May (the week after the Spree...Rats!). Included in the container are the new MP "Eagle Merchandise Service" cars (here is a tip of the hat to Lee Johnson who sent us a photo of the MP subsidiary NOT&M "Eagle Merchandise Service" car, the first version, I-GN, sold out and we had many additional requests), the Green and Yellow CNW rebuilt boxcar as well as the NASG LRX convention reefer (John Foley told me they are over 85% sold out, so order soon) and Scenery Unlimited's 'Old Dutch Maid" and "Kahn's" colorful billboard reefers. You mentioned E-units, I guess it is not a secret that we have been working on a series of E units starting with a E-7's both A & B units. We are still in the design phase and hope to have test shots next year. I guess the new features for these will be the addition of a smoke unit and dual speakers. But maybe you are referring to the AM E-8 A units that we had heard about a few months ago. I believe we may see these later this year. We had test shots of our PRR 155# flex track at York this weekend and we received many favorable comments. We will have them apply the wood grain to the ties and I hope to see these later this summer. On Friday. we also received the 2nd set of drawings for the B&O E-27 2-8-0. I am hoping the corrections are minimal so we can start tooling this summer with test shots later this fall. The Double Sheathed boxcars are in production now and are expected to leave later in May. The next run of Extended Vision Caboose painted and lettered samples were shipped to us on Saturday and I expect them tomorrow. They to should be in production soon and I hope to see them later this summer. Yes Ed, when it rains, it does indeed pour in S gauge. Don T. Ed & Judi Loizeaux wrote: > The thought just occurred to me that good old S scale is experiencing > one heck of a surge of new locomotives. Just think of the RRM > Berkshires and SW cab forwards and RRM UP turbines. All of these are > big budget items and two of the projects are essentially sold out > already. (Turbine orders still being accepted.) Then, we see SHS F-3 > diesels are enroute from SE Asia. The AM Budd cars appear to be only > two or three boats ahead of the F-3 diesels. Not to mention all the > small steamers being done by BTS. > > Then, to top it all off, the internet is now awash in rumors of E-units, > passenger cars, etc. Holy smokes, Amos, when will it all end? This is > an amazing spurt of new products in a very short time frame. Can our > poor old scale of choice maintain this momentum? Or will there be a > silent period in the near future while the manufacturers wait for us to > deplete their inventory? > > I'm just amazed. "S"imply amazed! Never in my wildest dreams......... > > Cheers...Ed L. -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New 2nd run reefers are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13010	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 4/29/2001
Subject: TRAIN STORE

Anyone know the name & address of the train store in Canyonville Ore....They handle a lot of scale ans Sn3 stuff....I'm up here and did not bring their address...I can't even remember the name to look it up in the phone book.....Mike S.. PS am cleaning out my soon (1-2 years) to be train room

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13011	From: Rick Evans	Date: 4/29/2001
Subject: Re: Lost or Stolen Trains

I wrote to Peter curious to why the item was insured for only HALF the purchase price! I don't get it! Shouldn't the seller be liable for somethin' here?? The seller made a profit,...buyer lost $300 and doesn't have the item! Is it me,...or does something stink here?? Good luck Peter!! Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13012	From: Rick Evans	Date: 4/29/2001
Subject: Re: Lost or Stolen Trains

****((((The law is not on his side. The courts have ruled when it is delivered to the shipping carrier, it becomes the buyers mdse. and the buyer is at risk. The buyer though has a claim against the carrier.Larry Jackson))))**** But what good does THAT do,...if the seller doesn't insure it for full value???? Maybe the LAW isn't on the buyer's side,...but what about the BBB or other??? And who is to blame if a package is stolen from the front porch after the carrier drops it off?? Does having it insured still help?? Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13013	From: Bill Frazier	Date: 4/29/2001
Subject: Re: Command Control

> Now, the big question: Has anyone attempted to convert S hirail > (Flyer, AM, SHS, LTI Flyer) to command control (DCC or Trainmaster > command control or other) and what was the outcome? For your > equipment with electronic sound effects (LTI Railsounds, AM steamers > and diesels w/ sound), were you able to integrate the original sounds > with command control? I have converted all of the above loco types to DCC. E units (electronic or mechanical) are removed and replaced with a DCC decoder. Flyer universal motors will need a bridge rectifier added, or as I have sometimes done, an original Flyer DC field replacement. AC sound systems are another question entirely and I cannot comment much on them, except to say that I got the horn to work in a Flyonel EP5 using an F1 function lead from a DCC decoder. Bill Frazier

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13014	From: rbashista@yahoo.com	Date: 4/29/2001
Subject: Budd shipments

We are starting to ship the Budd cars today Monday, so please be patient we have a lot of orders to get out. Ron B

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13015	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 4/30/2001
Subject: York report

I hope everyone's York went well. It's an amazing event no matter how you slice it. Fortunately my schedule prevailed such that I got to go Friday, but I had to return a little earlier than usual to make it to a BSA camp out that night. Fortunately also my car didn't leave me stranded. The fuel injection system warning light came on 25 miles out of York. I thought (for a whole nanosecond) should I get the car looked at today, or go train shopping and risk not getting home. Needless to say, that light shown brightly all the way home! I had pretty good luck, but understand even a "bad" day at York beats any day in the office! I bought a couple more maroon 65X heavyweight passenger cars. Wow, were the prices on heavyweights higher than I expected. After buying a pair with boxes on eBay for $163 that were LN except for some easily removed white mold on their chassis, I was shocked to see similar condition cars (without the mold) for $200 or more a piece. I eventually bought two lesser pristine cars for $92 a piece. I'll have to replace a window or two on these, and they're a little darker than my first two cars, but they're otherwise in great shape. Bakelite car-to-car color varies some compared to the latter painted versions, but their marbled finish looks cool. I also got a 3-car aluminum set (660,662,663) to add to my two 661's for $125 - - great shape, good price. Now to reconvert my 661's back to LC. Those'll be my Birthday present. I found a Ex sheet metal chassis maroon 651 baggage car in great shape that'll be my transition car from the LC 65X's to KC engines. That's for Fathers Day! Oh yes, the cow-on-track I use at club events once again has a whistle to warn Ol' Bessy. I kitbashed the Diner (removed the original fried can motor assembly) and added the guts of an AF Billboard whistle which I also purchased at York. Sounds great! Add a bunch of parts and a tool or two and my day was done. What fun! Tom Seccia's new parts display panels were great. He knows a lot about parts and tools for Flyer. However, it was nice to have Fred Jester, Hobby Surplus, Joe's, and Triple-S all there. I went to everyone, and eventually found nearly all the parts I was looking for. Now if I had had more money - - a NIB 443 priced at $250, a beauty 644 NIB available for $110, and a sweet 656 with load listed at $135. Not to mention about a gazilion dollars worth of other treasures! Oh well that's why I have a budget, and there's always next year. On the new product side - - the new LocoMatic by Dallee was outstanding. It fits in a S-Gauge Atlantic tender - - chuff, bell, air brake compressor, and various whistles are available. A loud, terrific sounding T1 was demonstrated. Price=$119. AM is doing a limited run of the Empire Express engine through one of the dealers there (forgot his name). One of the conversion vendors has a 20th Century you can buy (Mike Cole's was on display). Didn't have time for the the Lionel tent, or to spend time at MTH. I saw a few dealers selling "Challenger" smoke fluid "just like the original" for Flyer trains. Anybody buy and try some yet? How many more weeks until October 19th? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13016	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 4/30/2001
Subject: Update on Lost Trains

I really appreciate all the off-list responses I got regarding the lost order for an AM B&O Pacific and 4 cars. I've gotten several emails from Ron at AM, and he has promised to get replacement merchandise, which is what I want more then the money. As for Ron insuring the items for half of what I paid for them, I'm not sure he has any other option. A normal retail markup is 100%, so if he sold them to me for $600, he has $300 of direct cost in them. The other $300 goes for his operating expenses and his profit. (Hopefully he has some profit!). He probably can't be reimbursed by FedEx for more then his actual out-of-pocket loss. If he had the items in stock and could reship them, he would have an additional $300 out of pocket and FedEx would reimburse him for that. So he would end up with his $300 above his direct cost and be even. Except that he wouldn't be able to sell the replacement set, so he would actually have a potential loss of $300. When this is all straightened out, I'll brief the list as to how it was resolved. Peter Ervin

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13017	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/30/2001
Subject: Re: Update on Lost Trains

Peter, Hope it all works out, I've had problems with lost or misdeliverd stuff too, and it's always a painful process. However, your explanation of the insurance made me think of a complex math "word problem", couldn't resist: If two model trains, costing $300 and $600 respectively leave Chicago at 9 AM traveling at 30 and 40 MPH. . . . . . . ;-) S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13018	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 4/30/2001
Subject: LIONEL Display

Check out the LIONEL "56" display on ebay item #1139781624. Jerry 77-11644 ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13019	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 4/30/2001
Subject: Re: Update on Lost Trains

You have been misinformed. When I was Smokey valley Railroad and Machine shop, also S Scale America, I insured all packages for the retail value. I had two disappear. UPS did not pay me for the loss. They paid the owner and receiver of the packages. When the packaged is picked up by the transportation co the package becomes the property of the BUYER and does not belong to the shipper. So the Package SHOULD have been insured for 600 dollars. Period end of story. Larry Jackman Peter Ervin wrote: > > I really appreciate all the off-list responses I got regarding the lost

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13020	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 4/30/2001
Subject: Re: Update on Lost Trains

One more thing. I have had two packages disappear from my front door after being left by UPS. The driver said he left them and I said they were not there. UPS paid me for them. So I would get on FEDEX and make them pay you, if you did not sign for them. The driver's signature does not count. Larry Jackman David Dewey wrote: > > Peter,

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13021	From: David A. Highfield	Date: 4/30/2001
Subject: Williamsburg, VA display

This weekend I saw the model train exhibit from the Carstens Collection at the Abby Aldrich Rockefeller Folk Art Museum in Colonial Williamsburg, VA. All gauges are on display, including a MTH running exhibit. It is a beautiful and informative display of antique model trains. FYI, A one day seminar, "Toy Trains and Miniature Railways" will be held there on June 16 at the Dewitt Wallace Decorative Arts Museum. Check it on www.history.org. Registration for the all-day seminar is $75.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13022	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 4/30/2001
Subject: Re: Update on Lost Trains

Thought I'd pass on this tidbit to you guys about Fedex. We do a LOT of shipping with them, both regular and dangerous goods, and have had a few problems. Fedex will routinely drop packages without signatures, especially during busy times, because they have found that it is more cost effective to pay the insured value rather than all the accumulated overtime the drivers get if they have to wait for each signature. We ship lots of environmental samples collected during field work and insure the coolers for what it would cost to travel back to the site and recollect the samples (including all per diem, air or ground transportation, materials and labor hours). We have received two payments for lost shipments or samples ruined because they were not delivered on time in the last four years. Both were in excess of $5000. Of course, we (the client really) pays a good bit on the insurance, but we haven't had any problems collecting. They did take about six weeks to find about $25,000 worth of equipment in their TN warehouse which is the size of about six football stadiums. Roger Petrella Franktown, CO lawrence jackman wrote: > One more thing. I have had two packages disappear from my front door > after being left by UPS. The driver said he left them and I said they > were not there. UPS paid me for them. So I would get on FEDEX and make > them pay you, if you did not sign for them. The driver's signature does > not count. > Larry Jackman > > David Dewey wrote: > > > > Peter, > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13023	From: Al	Date: 4/30/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 998

Hi, In regards to command control for American Flyer/S gauge: QSI Industries has been one of the main creators of DCS in partnership with MTH for a long time. The two companies parted company a few years ago. QSI has a web site for all the different sounds and extra features of digital command systems available. It is best that a quote from their web site best sums up what they can do: QSI Solves the Command Control Dilemma with QS-3000 UCS Beaverton, OR – QSIndustries, Inc. has developed a sound and train control system, QS-3000 UCS, that is compatible with both Lionel’s Trainmaster Command Control (TCC) and MTH’s Digital Command System (DCS*) and with Conventional Control. Users will have full operation of all QS-3000 features and effects in Conventional Control using standard transformers like the ZW or Z-4000. They can also opt to add the UCS Adapter Pack, which will give them full command of all features and effects under TCC. With the UCS Adapter Pack installed, instructions sent via Lionel’s Cab-1 handheld throttle through their TCC Command Base will operate QS-3000 UCS in Command mode. Since MTH’s new DCS (Digital Command System) is compatible with Lionel’s TCC Command Base, engines equipped with QS-3000 UCS and UCS Adapter Pack can also operate with MTH’s DCS handheld throttle. The aim of the Universal Control System, or UCS, is to make it easy to operate the locomotive without thinking about which control system is being used. Someone with a QS-3000 UCS with the UCS Adapter Pack installed, can run their train on a layout powered by a ZW, TCC, or DCS and access all the sound and train control features. All features and effects are available because QS-3000 UCS automatically detects the type of control system that is being used. All the operator has to do is place the train on the track and add power, knowing that their engine will respond properly in both Conventional and Command Control environments. Getting specific for American Flyer/S gauge, I emailed them last week and this is the reply they sent me: Al, Yes, our sound systems and reverse units are compatable with S gauge. The only problem would be the physical size for mounting (sound systems, DCC, and reverse units). Jim Christensen QSIndustries Click on the address below and you will end up at their web page for American Flyer compatible products. http://www.qsindustries.com/select.htm#American Flyer Hope this site will help you out. Al Rawdon

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13024	From: Greg Wilson	Date: 4/30/2001
Subject: Better way to find trains and other collectables on eBay

I hope nobody takes this as SPAM but I have created a site that allows you to setup search agents to search for particular items including rare coins, stamps, model trains, etc. on eBay. The service is free. It also provides auction tracking, email notifications based on rules, etc. I built this site for my own collecting and because I was frustrated at eBay's notifications being unreliable. The site is http://www.auctiongator.com I am looking for ways to let other collectors know about the site. If anyone knows of any good websites or groups for collectors of any kind, let me know. Thank you.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13025	From: Bill Lane	Date: 4/30/2001
Subject: Enhorning Items for sale

Hi all, Through a VERY weird set of events, my friend (Robert) in Michigan acquired a large collection of items from the surviving family of Arthur Enhorning. It was in a barn that was the manufacturing shop. They wanted it cleaned out (to demolish I think) They thought it was going to be worth a lot of $$, but I told Robert that it has been surpassed with better models. He sent it all to me. I have sold some items on Ebay, but would like to sell the rest as a lot. Perhaps you want to finish selling them at the NASG convention or on Ebay yourself. Consider this to be a private email auction. I do not have a price in mind, but do not offer me $25.00 either. Here is a list of the remaining items. Interested parties have until Sunday May 6th to make an offer. I would guess that shipping would be approximately $20-25.00 Please do not make an offer if you do not intend to complete the transaction. Work phone number - 8:00 to 5:00 Eastern 856-533-3118 Santa Fe F-7 B Unit powered http://users.snip.net/~billlane/sfbunit.jpg I did not test this unit. It weighs about 3 pounds, so if should pull pretty well when it is running. Santa Fe F-7 B Unit unpowered - Identical paint to the above. Hirail wheels F-7 A & B set - unpowered. This set has all of the ladders intact. http://users.snip.net/~billlane/dummyset.jpg F unit drive - Again untested http://users.snip.net/~billlane/drive1.jpg Union Pacific F-7 B Unit - This item had 2 vertically mounted motors. I do not have the corresponding trucks for it. The Union Pacific is more complete on the other side. http://users.snip.net/~billlane/upbunit.jpg 14) F-7 A Unit shells in various states of paint and condition. Here is one of the better-painted loose shells. http://users.snip.net/~billlane/painteda.jpg F-7 A & B set painted for New York Central. This is currently on Ebay. The thin white stripe needs to be redone. I will halt the auction and include them if you are interested. http://users.snip.net/~billlane/nyc.jpg 2) F-7 B Unit shells in various states of paint and condition 300 aluminum wheels only 300 steel wheels with misc. axles and 10 sideframes. Approximately 4-500 Enhorning decal sets new in the envelopes. I do not know what sets are in there. If you want 1 set you have to take them all. A large quantity of Devore couplers new in the envelope. I do not have these in my possession yet, so the exact number in unknown at this time. Some misc. Miller tie strip and various underframes are also included in the lot. Thank You Bill

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13026	From: John Foley	Date: 4/30/2001
Subject: Steamtown model contest

Hi Folks Don Heimburger of the S gaugain and Scenery Unlimited has graciously volunteered to award $100 for a model in any category at the NASG convention Steamtown USA this July. Don will judge the model he feels deserves the award. He will also present the award at the banquet. So folks get to work and finish your model entry the $100 could be yours. John Foley

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13027	From: Eugene Steffan	Date: 5/1/2001
Subject: Re: Coal loads......

Just returned from York. Found some nice coal loads for A/F gondolas, Etc. The label on the packages says: Blue Mountain Hobbies, R.D. #1, Box 616A, Annville, PA 17003; (717) 867-2528. They are made of foam, coated with granules, and left natural or painted black. I think they were $5 each. Gene Rick Evans wrote: > Where might you all suggest that I find coal loads for my 940 > gondolas, like the ones used in the 921's??? Anyone making repros?? > *(sorry Tom J...hope they don't lower the value of yours! ;-) )* > Or any other coal loads? > At a train show awhile back, I found a beat up 921 and stole the > load for my 801. I like the looks better with a load in 'em,...plus > the previous owner of these 940's I have, used them for mixing paint > in!! (when he was younger,...darn kids!!) > > Thanks, > Rick "Coal-less" Evans. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13028	From: Bob	Date: 5/1/2001
Subject: 30-9120 "Gabe"

Dear Group, I 'd just thought you would like to know my review on the new M.T.H. 30-9120 "Gabe The Lamplighter ".I picked it up on Sunday at my local hobby center.No mail order/internet for me.I support the little guys.And he gives me 10 % off for being a regular,so for a little more money I get the service that the others can't provide. Not really knowing how the orginal A.F. Gabe worked,(it's only been a dream to have a piece like this on my layout )M.T.H. version works great ! Little Gabe goes up and down like clock work .My kids had their friends over all day on Sunday and I'm going to say that Gabe has about a good 2 hours of playing time without a hitch.Even the buttons take a good pounding from their little fingers.The only slight problem that I had in the beginning is that when Gabe would slide back down from the top of the tower it would take about 10-15 clicks on the "up" button to get the string tight again.After about a twenty minutes the problem went away.I called Bill ( my local dealer ) and he said that the string is new and it probably had to be woned and unwoned a few times to get the string in working order.He was right ! Not a bit of a problem after the first break-in period.I think that it is worth every penny just to see my kids and their friends eyes light up in amazement!! For those who are unsure about buying a repro and not the orginal,ask yourself this question.Would your wife let you bring home an orginal for $1100.00 or a repro ( that probably works better than the orginal )for $149.95 ? Let me know what you think............Bob

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13029	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 5/1/2001
Subject: Preserving the past

Bill's posts about the Enhorning collection as well as a recent post on the S-Trains list selling off some old car kits made me wonder what's going to happen to all those old S scale products of the past. They are a part of our history and heritage and it would be a shame to lose them little by little. So I wondered if it would be desirable and/or feasible to have an S Gauge museum that preserved these items from our past. The NASG doesn't have a headquarters or a building so it would have to be a "travelling" museum that could be displayed at the conventions. There shouldn't be much of an expense because the items would be donated. Just a place to keep the items until a convention would be necessary. The NMRA has it's Kalmbach Memorial Library. We could honor one of our departed S gaugers pretty much the way we honor the memory of Bernie Thomas by naming the museum after them. Anyway, it's a thought. Roy

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13030	From: John Foley	Date: 5/1/2001
Subject: Programs and Tours at Steamtown

Hi Folks Please go to this page http://www.nps.gov/stea/home.htm To learn about things to do and see at Steamtown. I was told that this Schedule will be basically the same but with more of these tours scheduled each day in July. John Foley Chairmen NASG Steamtown 2001

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13031	From: Bob	Date: 5/1/2001
Subject: BEFORE I UPSET EVERYONE.......

Dear Group, Before I upset everyone let me state a few facts.I love American Flyer.I would like to purchase everything in it's orginal form but I don't have that kind of money.I do purchase a few items on line but I try, when it's at all possible, to give tha local guy first crack at it.Please don't be upset that I bought a repro.I really didn't mean to get anyone upset.Thanks......Bob

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13032	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/1/2001
Subject: Re: Preserving the past

I like the idea, I was thinking about that very concern when I first read the posting offering the collection. Many details to be worked out, like where does one keep it while it isn't on display?? S David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13033	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 5/1/2001
Subject: Preserving the past

Unfortunately, a collection of early S Scale items would involve a tremendous amount of preservation work. Here's why: Most of these items are wood, cardstock, white metal castings, and Enhorning's notorious warping plastic. They are just not going to last: specifically, the glues, be they acetate, ambroid, goo, or epoxy, are not going to hold over a long period and will have to be replaced; that is, items will have to be rebuilt. The only items that I see enduring for a long time are the brass locos. What makes more sense is a book -- perhaps a cooperative effort, with lots of photographs , interlarded with material from S Gauge Herald, S Gaugian, and other magazines from the period in question. The history of S gauge IS interesting. It is a story that should be told. I personally would rather see it in book form. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13034	From: David	Date: 5/1/2001
Subject: Re: BEFORE I UPSET EVERYONE.......

Bob, you should buy what you want. I have an original AF Gabe LN in OB thats worth $1800, I'm not about to use it on the layout. I'm also not about to drop $800 for a VG one just to have one to run. I purchased a MTH Gabe because the quality was there over anything Lionel could ever hope to produce, the price was right, and if someone doesn't like it TOUGH beans, they don't have to visit and see it run. You bought what you could afford and your happy. Thats what counts.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13035	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 5/2/2001
Subject: What happen to the list?

I haven't gotten any S-Trains posting in a couple of days. Is there a problem? Peter Ervin

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13036	From: Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S.	Date: 5/2/2001
Subject: B.T.S. New Phone Number In Effect

Howdy Friends Just a quick note to let you know that Diane and I survived the move, and the new phone and fax numbers listed below are ready. We will be unpacking for at least a week or two, and will try not to let that get in the way of taking care of your requests. Thanks, and take care, Bill -- ============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-643-1105 FAX: 813-681-7326 B.T.S. http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13037	From: wayne broadhead	Date: 5/2/2001
Subject: Re: What happen to the list?

Hi Peter...I'm here. Waiting for my Gabe from a dealer..come on Mr. UPS man..... Wayne Peter Ervin wrote: > > I haven't gotten any S-Trains posting in a couple of days. Is there a problem? > > Peter Ervin > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13038	From: Bill Frazier	Date: 5/2/2001
Subject: Re: Preserving the past

--- In S-Trains@y..., jarcho@r... wrote: > Unfortunately, a collection of early S Scale items would involve a > tremendous amount of preservation work. Here's why: Most of these items > are wood, cardstock, white metal castings, and Enhorning's notorious > warping plastic. They are just not going to last: specifically, the > glues, be they acetate, ambroid, goo, or epoxy, are not going to hold over > a long period and will have to be replaced; that is, items will have to be > rebuilt. The only items that I see enduring for a long time are the brass > locos. > > What makes more sense is a book -- perhaps a cooperative effort, with lots > of photographs , interlarded with material from S Gauge Herald, S Gaugian, > and other magazines from the period in question. The history of S gauge IS > interesting. It is a story that should be told. I personally would rather > see it in book form. > > Tom Jarcho Tom, I agree with everything you say, particularly the part about a book. I'll take a copy! However, I have Ambroid and Kinsman models that I assembled with Ambroid cement about 40 years ago that show no signs of coming apart. Just lucky I guess. Bill Frazier

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13039	From: John Foley	Date: 5/2/2001
Subject: Fwd: Model Railroading Magazine

>Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 13:01:06 -0400 >To: "S-Scale@egroups" <S-Scale@egroups.com>, "s-trains@egroups" ><s-trains@egroups.com> >From: John Foley <foley164@...> >Subject: Model Railroading Magazine > >Hi Folks > Well Model Railroading Magazine can't make it to our > convention either. >So far CTT, RMC, Rail Model Journal and Model Railroading are not coming. > >Jim Kelly is coming for Model Railroader and Roy Hoffman will be >representing Model railroad news. > >Are their any magazines I missed? Please let me know. Any ideas welcome. > >John Foley

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13040	From: John Foley	Date: 5/2/2001
Subject: Fwd: Model Railroading Magazine

Hi Again I should have mention that Don will be at the convention for his magazine the S gaugain and Scenery Unlimited. And of course Jeff will be there for the Dispatch as always. John Foley >Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 13:01:06 -0400 >To: "S-Scale@egroups" <S-Scale@egroups.com>, "s-trains@egroups" ><s-trains@egroups.com> >From: John Foley <foley164@...> >Subject: Model Railroading Magazine > >Hi Folks > Well Model Railroading Magazine can't make it to our > convention either. >So far CTT, RMC, Rail Model Journal and Model Railroading are not coming. > >Jim Kelly is coming for Model Railroader and Roy Hoffman will be >representing Model railroad news. > >Are their any magazines I missed? Please let me know. Any ideas welcome. > >John Foley

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13041	From: John Foley	Date: 5/2/2001
Subject: Model Railroading Magazine

Hi Folks Well Model Railroading Magazine can't make it to our convention either. So far CTT, RMC, Rail Model Journal and Model Railroading are not coming. Jim Kelly is coming for Model Railroader and Roy Hoffman will be representing Model railroad news. Are their any magazines I missed? Please let me know. Any ideas welcome. John Foley

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13042	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 5/2/2001
Subject: Lost Trains

Here's the latest on my lost American Models B&O Pacific and passenger cars: Karen at AM called today and said they expect to ship replacement items this week. Great! I don't know how she did it, since mine was supposed to be the last ones in stock. She said they didn't insure my original order for the retail amount ($600) due to the expense. So they insured it for $300. Apparently they haven't had many lost orders. Since FedEx shipments to businesses are always supposed to be signed for and since I used my business mailing address, Karen will challenge FedEx in an attempt to get both the $300 of insurance and the other $300. So this may work out for everyone involved. At this point all I have to do is wait for the order to arrive. Karen is handling the FedEx claim herself. Thanks again for the many suggestions and ideas. Peter Ervin

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13043	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 5/2/2001
Subject: Re: Preserving the past

Dear Roy, Wow, where are you guys! We don't need no stinking walls, we need a virtual S Scale/Gauge museum. Come on, All the NASG needs to do is get a nice big server (with all of those dot.coms drying up a second hand one should come cheap, maybe Dick Karnes can find one for us in Seattle), then we take jpegs of all that old stuff and add it to the NASG web page. Then EVERYONE can see it, not just those who would go to where a museum would be located (most likely inconvenient for 90% of the population). Just a thought. Don T. Bill Frazier wrote: > --- In S-Trains@y..., jarcho@r... wrote: > > Unfortunately, a collection of early S Scale items would involve a > > tremendous amount of preservation work. Here's why: Most of these > items > > are wood, cardstock, white metal castings, and Enhorning's notorious > > warping plastic. They are just not going to last: specifically, > the > > glues, be they acetate, ambroid, goo, or epoxy, are not going to > hold over > > a long period and will have to be replaced; that is, items will > have to be > > rebuilt. The only items that I see enduring for a long time are > the brass > > locos. > > > > What makes more sense is a book -- perhaps a cooperative effort, > with lots > > of photographs , interlarded with material from S Gauge Herald, S > Gaugian, > > and other magazines from the period in question. The history of S > gauge IS > > interesting. It is a story that should be told. I personally > would rather > > see it in book form. > > > > Tom Jarcho > > Tom, I agree with everything you say, particularly the part about a > book. I'll take a copy! However, I have Ambroid and Kinsman models > that I assembled with Ambroid cement about 40 years ago that show no > signs of coming apart. Just lucky I guess. > > Bill Frazier > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 F-3 A and B unit sets are now sailing! http://www.showcaseline.com/emdf3s_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13044	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 5/2/2001
Subject: Re: Preserving the past

Good points, but the items would only be for display and not to be run on a layout, etc. I was thinking of the visual part. Books are nice, but the real thing would be nicer. I agree that any S publications like mags and books could be archived much like a library,but I consider that a separate issue (excuse the pun). I also agree with David that storing the stuff would be the biggest problem. I have lots of space under the layout and would be glad to voluteer if noone else wanted to store the equipment. I would have to resist the temptation to run the stuff though. Roy --- In S-Trains@y..., jarcho@r... wrote: > Unfortunately, a collection of early S Scale items would involve a > tremendous amount of preservation work. Here's why: Most of these items > are wood, cardstock, white metal castings, and Enhorning's notorious > warping plastic. They are just not going to last: specifically, the > glues, be they acetate, ambroid, goo, or epoxy, are not going to hold over > a long period and will have to be replaced; that is, items will have to be > rebuilt. The only items that I see enduring for a long time are the brass > locos. > > What makes more sense is a book -- perhaps a cooperative effort, with lots > of photographs , interlarded with material from S Gauge Herald, S Gaugian, > and other magazines from the period in question. The history of S gauge IS > interesting. It is a story that should be told. I personally would rather > see it in book form. > > Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13045	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 5/2/2001
Subject: preserving the past

Don's idea of a digital S repository is excellent. However, it's a story, and someone who was there has got to tell it. There should be some narrative element. It's a good story, a story of individual and collective determination ( some would say pig-headedness), cooperation, and rewarding success against the odds. It's about people as much as rolling stock. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13046	From: M.McConnell	Date: 5/2/2001
Subject: Smoke fluid

Challenger smoke fluid is produced by Fred Jester - and from what he told me, Fred had a sample of original Flyer smoke fluid sent to a chemical analysis lab. He used the results of that test to create a formula that he says is as close to the original as we're going to get. Our club members use his fluid almost exclusively, and no one has reported any problems. It smokes well - and has a nice cedar smell. >Message: 1 >Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 09:34:01 -0400 >From: david_horn@... >Subject: York report > >I saw a few dealers selling "Challenger" smoke fluid "just like the >original" for Flyer trains. Anybody buy and try some yet? >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13047	From: sckubel@mindspring.com	Date: 5/2/2001
Subject: Digest Problems

Hi Has anyone else been having problems receiving the digest version of this mailing list? I haven't received one in 2 days. I have not changed my preferences. Thank you. Scott Kubel TCA 99-48731

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13048	From: Bill Lane	Date: 5/2/2001
Subject: Update on the Enhorning Items sale

Hi All, I am going away tomorrow to the PRR T& HS convention until Sunday. I am accepting offers on the following list of items until 6:00 p.m. on Sunday May 6th. The current high bid is $300.00. I would guess that shipping would be approximately $20-25.00 Please do not make an offer if you do not intend to complete the transaction. Santa Fe F-7 B Unit powered http://users.snip.net/~billlane/sfbunit.jpg I did not test this unit. It weighs about 3 pounds, so if should pull pretty well when it is running. Santa Fe F-7 B Unit unpowered - Identical paint to the above. Hirail wheels F-7 A & B set - unpowered. This set has all of the ladders intact. http://users.snip.net/~billlane/dummyset.jpg F unit drive - Again untested http://users.snip.net/~billlane/drive1.jpg Union Pacific F-7 B Unit - This item had 2 vertically mounted motors. I do not have the corresponding trucks for it. The Union Pacific is more complete on the other side. http://users.snip.net/~billlane/upbunit.jpg 14) F-7 A Unit shells in various states of paint and condition. Here is one of the better-painted loose shells. http://users.snip.net/~billlane/painteda.jpg F-7 A & B set painted for New York Central. This is currently on Ebay. The thin white stripe needs to be redone. I will halt the auction and include them if you are interested. http://users.snip.net/~billlane/nyc.jpg 2) F-7 B Unit shells in various states of paint and condition 300 aluminum wheels only 300 steel wheels with misc. axles and 10 sideframes. Approximately 4-500 Enhorning decal sets new in the envelopes. I do not know what sets are in there. If you want 1 set you have to take them all. A large quantity of Devore couplers new in the envelope. I do not have these in my possession yet, so the exact number in unknown at this time. Some misc. Miller tie strip and various underframes are also included in the lot. Thank You Bill Lane

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13049	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 5/2/2001
Subject: Missing the Digest

Hi Has anyone else been having problems receiving the digest version of this mailing list? I haven't received one in 2 days. I have not changed my preferences. Thank you. Scott Kubel TCA 99-48731 I missed # 998 and 999, but got 1000 and 1001. I wonder what's up? Peter Ervin

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13050	From: Alan C Udy	Date: 5/2/2001
Subject: Sam the Semaphore

I am restoring a Sam the Semaphore. Question: I can get the push rod to get the signal from green to yellow, but no further to red. With the push rod fully down, the green is in position. With it fully up (I mean fully) it is in the yellow position. Do they have a throw long enough to reach red, or is yellow/green all I can reasonable achieve? Thanks for any ideas. Alan Udy RMHRS Idaho Falls, ID ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13051	From: Peck	Date: 5/2/2001
Subject: Re: UPS

<<, I insured all packages for the retail value. I had two disappear. UPS did not pay me for the loss. They paid the owner and receiver of the packages. When the packaged is picked up by the transportation co the package becomes the property of the BUYER and does not belong to the shipper. So the Package SHOULD have been insured for 600 dollars.>> Not argueing with you, Larry, but I have NEVER experienced this! Every UPS loss I have had (shipping to a customer) over the past 10 years has required ME to file the claim, and payment to ME so that I could then replace the shipment to the buyer. I DO agree that insurance should be for the retail value.....that's why UPS requires a copy of the Sales Invoice to process a claim. As for FedEx, my experience with their deliveries to me (I do not ship with them) is that they will never leave a package here unless someone is here to sign for it. And if I sign their blanket permission to leave packages without a signature, I forfeit all rights to a loss claim..............so I won't give them that blanket permission! Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13052	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 5/2/2001
Subject: Sam the Semaphore

Al;an: this should not be a big problem. The angled sliding arm which pushes the semaphore rod up, is probably bent a little so that it doesn't push the rod up far enough. Simply bend it so that it pushes the arm up farther; that is , change the angle of the bend in it a little. Alternatively, this arm may be travelling too low because whatever holds it is bent, or the head of the semaphore may be so loose that the rod pushes it up instead of turning the semaphore blade. The first possibility is by far the likeliest though. I don't have a Sam in front of me right now, but hope I have explained this clearly anyway. Most problems in the Sam the Sem are due to the fact that the solenoid is really powerful. It can bend several parts in the assembly out of shape and also loosen the semaphore post. However the thing is a lot of fun and worth the trouble of repairing and maintaining. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13053	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 5/2/2001
Subject: digest problems

i don't get the digest form, but I have noticed that things are very slow on this list this week. it takes hours for a posting to appear, when it used to be minutes. Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13054	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/2/2001
Subject: Re: UPS

HI all, Not to start an argument, especially with Doug, but the latest UPS mix-up I had to deal with was shipped to me, and the payment went to the shipper. Now this may be because he was sending his merchandise to me for repair and return, I dunno! S' David D. PS it was over insured!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13055	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 5/3/2001
Subject: wiring

I'm trying to rewire a 290.I lost my diagram,and I can't get to paul yorke's page.Help,please.thanks ,Keith _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13056	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/3/2001
Subject: Re: UPS

I shipped an Overland brass dash 8-40CW to a person, He decided he did mot want it. When the return package arrived, it disappeared from my door step. I was the one who made the claim as the receiver and they paid me. I guess they do it as the want. When I was Smokey Valley, a large 1000 dollar order to Walthers disappeared and UPS paid Walthers, not me. Walthers then paid my invoice, Larry Peck wrote: >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13057	From: sgriggs@umich.edu	Date: 5/3/2001
Subject: Re: UPS

Evidently, AM decided that the loss rate was so low that it didn't justify the additional cost of insuring the full retail value of the merchandise. If it costs an extra $20 to insure for $600 vs $300 and a loss is only experienced 1/1000 times, it obviously doesn't make business sense to pay the extra $20 on every shipment. Besides, their cost is probably much closer to $300 than $600. And most importantly, they are handling the situation and shipping a replacement. The amount of insurance purchased is transparent to the buyer and is irrelevant. --- In S-Trains@y..., "Peck" <portlines@m...> wrote: > <<, I insured all packages for the retail value. > I had two disappear. UPS did not pay me for the loss. They paid the > owner and receiver of the packages. When the packaged is picked up by > the transportation co the package becomes the property of the BUYER and > does not belong to the shipper. So the Package SHOULD have been insured > for 600 dollars.>> > > Not argueing with you, Larry, but I have NEVER experienced this! Every UPS > loss I have had (shipping to a customer) over the past 10 years has required > ME to file the claim, and payment to ME so that I could then replace the > shipment to the buyer. I DO agree that insurance should be for the retail > value.....that's why UPS requires a copy of the Sales Invoice to process a > claim. > As for FedEx, my experience with their deliveries to me (I do not ship with > them) is that they will never leave a package here unless someone is here to > sign for it. And if I sign their blanket permission to leave packages > without a signature, I forfeit all rights to a loss claim..............so I > won't give them that blanket permission! > > Doug Peck > Port Lines Hobby Supplies > 6 Storeybrooke Drive > Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 > Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST > 978-465-8798 > 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). > http://www.portlines.com > portlines@m...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13058	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/3/2001
Subject: UPS-0h Bother! my mistake

Hmm, After re-reading Doug's post this AM, I realized that he and I have had the same experiences. The original Shipper had to instigate the claim & was the one paid. The claims adjuster did interview me, and I did have to provide replacement cost estimates, but that was the extent of my particpation. I don't even know for what they eventually settled! Must be the pain pills. . . .;-) (the only good thing that's come out of hurting myself (one should not go from couch potato to sheet rock hanger in one day) is I now have an excuse for messing up--it's the drugs, man!) S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13059	From: M.McConnell	Date: 5/3/2001
Subject: Contact info for Fred Jester

In response to the inquiries on how to contact Fred - Here is his phone and address. Fred is not yet "Internet Ready". Fred's Train Parts 2102 Concord Rd Chester, PA 19013 (610) 494-4578 or (610) 497-2670 FAX - (610) 494-7769 (Phone calls welcome from 8am to 11pm Eastern Time) In addition to Challenger Smoke Fluid, Fred carries an extensive list of original and repro Flyer parts.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13060	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/3/2001
Subject: Re: UPS

With UPS today the cost of insurance is .60 per $100. I think. When I was shipping stuff it .30 per $100 Larry Jackman sgriggs@... wrote: > > Evidently, AM decided that the loss rate was so low that it didn't > justify the additional cost of insuring the full retail value of the > merchandise. If it costs an extra $20 to insure for $600 vs $300 and > a loss is only experienced 1/1000 times, it obviously doesn't make > business sense to pay the extra $20 on every shipment. Besides, their > cost is probably much closer to $300 than $600. > > And most importantly, they are handling the situation and shipping a > replacement. The amount of insurance purchased is transparent to the > buyer and is irrelevant. > > --- In S-Trains@y..., "Peck" <portlines@m...> wrote: > > <<, I insured all packages for the retail value. > > I had two disappear. UPS did not pay me for the loss. They paid the > > owner and receiver of the packages. When the packaged is picked up > by > > the transportation co the package becomes the property of the BUYER > and > > does not belong to the shipper. So the Package SHOULD have been > insured > > for 600 dollars.>> > > > > Not argueing with you, Larry, but I have NEVER experienced this! > Every UPS > > loss I have had (shipping to a customer) over the past 10 years has > required > > ME to file the claim, and payment to ME so that I could then replace > the > > shipment to the buyer. I DO agree that insurance should be for the > retail > > value.....that's why UPS requires a copy of the Sales Invoice to > process a > > claim. > > As for FedEx, my experience with their deliveries to me (I do not > ship with > > them) is that they will never leave a package here unless someone is > here to > > sign for it. And if I sign their blanket permission to leave > packages > > without a signature, I forfeit all rights to a loss > claim..............so I > > won't give them that blanket permission! > > > > Doug Peck > > Port Lines Hobby Supplies > > 6 Storeybrooke Drive > > Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 > > Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST > > 978-465-8798 > > 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). > > http://www.portlines.com > > portlines@m... > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13061	From: M.McConnell	Date: 5/3/2001
Subject: Ad for AM Empire State Express

Walt brought the ad for the new AM set to our attention. I was curious so I picked up a copy of the magazine. Looks interesting! I've scanned in the ad and posted it in the files section at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/AM%20Budd_Trainmaster/NYC_AM.jpg I wanted to get a decent quality image, so the file is a larger than usual. Thanks Walt! >Message: 3 > Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 11:28:02 -0000 > From: "Walt Danylak" <waltdanylak@...> >Subject: Fwd: Re: NYC Empire State Express > > >--- In S-Scale@y..., "Walt Danylak" <waltdanylak@c...> wrote: >Received the following message from Ron: > > >The ad in Classic Trains (not Classic Toy Trains) came out a month >early. Anyway the set prices are the same as our other 4-6-2 sets >except the set has 4 Budd cars. Engine only is $20 more. The >decorators tell me we may be able to ship in July. But I would figure >on later than that. Scale will ship with matching silver & black >paint on the engine, hi-rail will be chrome and black on the >engine. The Budd cars we made are based on the Empire State Express >train. We now have the 4 car sets and extra coaches available for >those who want the cars alone. ...RB > > >Walt > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13062	From: mark.p.baker@bt.com	Date: 5/3/2001
Subject: D.C. VISIT

> I shall be visiting Washington, D.C., from the U.K., on a business trip at > the end of next week and thought it would be nice to visit a model > railroad shop or two whilst I am there. I recall, from my visits to > Washington some years ago, that there used to be a model shop in the main > railroad station in the centre of the city. Is it still there? Is it any > good? As I recall it also used to sell toys, or rather toys for younger > children! If it has gone, and I have a vague recollection of reading > somewhere that it had closed, are there any other model shops in the D.C. > area that are worth visiting? > > > Mar P. Baker. >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13063	From: Peck	Date: 5/3/2001
Subject: Re: UPS

<<Not to start an argument, especially with Doug, but the latest UPS mix-up I had to deal with was shipped to me, and the payment went to the shipper. >> I THINK that's just what I said....at least it's what I meant! I, as shipper, had to file all the paperwork, make the claim, and receive reimbursement (except in those cases when UPS DENIED my clain for "inadequate packaging"....their favorite response!) The I made restitution----$$ or product---- with the customer I shipped to. Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13064	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 5/3/2001
Subject: Re: UPS

Dear Doug, Same here, we are the ones who file the claim and not the customers. Don Peck wrote: > <<Not to start an argument, especially with Doug, but the latest UPS > mix-up I had to deal with was shipped to me, and the payment went to the > shipper. >> > > I THINK that's just what I said....at least it's what I meant! > I, as shipper, had to file all the paperwork, make the claim, and receive > reimbursement (except in those cases when UPS DENIED my clain for > "inadequate packaging"....their favorite response!) The I made > restitution----$$ or product---- with the customer I shipped to. > > Doug Peck > Port Lines Hobby Supplies > 6 Storeybrooke Drive > Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 > Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST > 978-465-8798 > 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). > http://www.portlines.com > portlines@... > -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 F-3 A and B unit sets are now sailing! http://www.showcaseline.com/emdf3s_in_stock.html [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13065	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/3/2001
Subject: Re: UPS

When that big shipment to Walthers disappeared they were the one that filed the claim. I furnish proof of shipping and they did the rest. I have never filed a claim as shipper. But several as the intended receiver. Larry Jackman Robin Thompson wrote: > > Dear Doug, >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13066	From: Jim Hannawald	Date: 5/3/2001
Subject: Re: D.C. VISIT

Mark, You are right the shop closed, and is gone. There is a shop in Kensington on University Blvd, just outside of D.C., they specialize in O and collectables- the last time I was there they had a good selection of AF. There is also Burrett,s in College Park, he sometimes has some S items. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: <mark.p.baker@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 4:48 PM Subject: [S-Trains] D.C. VISIT > > I shall be visiting Washington, D.C., from the U.K., on a business trip at > > the end of next week and thought it would be nice to visit a model > > railroad shop or two whilst I am there. I recall, from my visits to > > Washington some years ago, that there used to be a model shop in the main > > railroad station in the centre of the city. Is it still there? Is it any > > good? As I recall it also used to sell toys, or rather toys for younger > > children! If it has gone, and I have a vague recollection of reading > > somewhere that it had closed, are there any other model shops in the D.C. > > area that are worth visiting? > > > > > > Mar P. Baker. > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13067	From: busyboy	Date: 5/3/2001
Subject: Re: Update on Lost Trains

David D. sez: >If two model trains, costing $300 and $600 respectively leave Chicago at 9 >AM traveling at 30 and 40 MPH. . . . . . . . . Which one is heading West and which one East? Simple, really. The $600 train is heading East to New York to it's new home on the Central of America. It's travelling 40 miles per hour because I'm happy I got my little toy and I'm anxious to get it home. The $300 train is going West to California with David, who is driving only 30 miles an hour so he can savor the anguish of just missing the $600 set. He's in no hurry to get home with his consolation prize. Big :~} Two to go . . .but where?, CZ

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13068	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/3/2001
Subject: Re: Update on Lost Trains

Chris, ROFLMFHO! Thanks, I needed that one, it's been a loooong day! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13069	From: jmogil@aol.com	Date: 5/3/2001
Subject: Wanted: SHS cars #0053 CNW, 0051 UP, 0074 GG YV&N

I am looking for three S-Helper Service cars. #0053 CNW Stockcar #0051 UP Stockcar #0074 GG-YV&N Boxcar If anyone one on the list has any or all of these cars and would like to sell them, I would like to buy them. I need 2 of the #0053, 2 of the the #0051 and 2 of the #0074 (1 for myself and 1 for fellow S gauger Lou Slotnick). Please contact me thru the list or directly by e-mail @aol. Thanks, Joe Mogil Member South Jersey S-Gaugers, & NASG

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13070	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 5/3/2001
Subject: Re: Ad for AM Empire State Express

Many thanx for the pic! Strange. When AM brought out their Pacific, the first thing that popped into my mind was, "Now that they have a six-driver steamer, how long will it be until they bring out a Hudson?" And here it is! Sure hope they make it with those cool Scullin disc drivers. Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13071	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 5/3/2001
Subject: Anybody...

...in SoCal going to Railroad Days at Fullerton Station this weekend? Santa Fe #3751 is already there, and guess what? She runs on two rails! Chuck F. Info: http://www.trainweb.com/frpa/rrdays/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13072	From: Michael Greene	Date: 5/4/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Historial

At 03:45 PM 5/3/2001 -0400, John Foley wrote: >Hi Folks > I think the idea of an historian is excellent. >Maybe we could get a volunteer to collect donated >items, put them in some sort of order and maybe work >with Michael Green to start a History of the NASG >and S Gauge page as part of our web site. Good idea regarding NASG history on the NASG web site -- it is already in the works! But the is just a storage venue. Naming an active archivist/historian will be key to sorting through the available materials and helping determine content of such history efforts. > This I think would be a good start to get >something organized then later we can get one of >the large magazines to do a series of this history. >We also in the future could maybe do a brochure >to sell or give away. It would be great to do a clinic >at the NASG conventions to educate our newer >members about our history and I think if we put together >a clinic for the NMRA conventions we could preach to >many others. >So I would be happy to present something to the BOT >this July with the help of said volunteer. It seems to me that this is excellent time in the life of S and the NASG to do an oral history project. Although I'm a relative newcomer to the NASG, it appears that there are a lot of the founders/early influencers/movers & shakers (you pick the word so I don't get in trouble) still alive and modeling. It seems to me that a really good project to help preserve NASG history would be to have it told by some of these key folks on videotape. Videotaped interviews with many of these early forces in the NASG could be shot, edited and compiled into a "NASG History" videotape. This videotape could be put in some key archives for posterity, as well as copies being available for purchase by interested folks through the NASG Clearinghouse or some other venue. The sponsors (NASG BOT?) might even target the proceeds (if any) to support other historical projects. But the idea is much less about fund raising, and more about preserving the history using the faces, voices, oral histories, thoughts, etc. from some the key NASG influencers while they are still available to such a project. Imagine 20 years from now being a new NASG member and being able to hear about the early days of S and the NASG organization from those who helped make it. And being able to see the people, and hear them telling about it in their words. Just an idea, Michael Greene

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13073	From: Robert Werre	Date: 5/4/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Historial

> It seems to me that a really good project to help preserve NASG > history would be to have it told by some of these key folks on videotape. > Videotaped interviews with many of these early forces in the NASG could be > shot, edited and compiled into a "NASG History" videotape. This videotape > could be put in some key archives for posterity, as well as copies being > available for purchase by interested folks through the NASG Clearinghouse > or some other venue. The sponsors (NASG BOT?) might even target the > proceeds (if any) to support other historical projects. > Remember video is not archievel--even some of our CD's have a debatable live span. Bob Werre [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13074	From: Gerry Evans	Date: 5/4/2001
Subject: BUDD Cars

FedEx just left my Budd Cars at my front door from AM. They are absolutely beautiful. Per request, Ron made up a set for me in chrome but with scale flanges. Of course, I ordered Santa Fe and got Pennsylvania, but after seeing the ad pictures of the various roads, I think I'll keep the Penn set since they are more colorful than the Santa Fe. Gerry [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13075	From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi	Date: 5/4/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Whatza Rollie??

Jim: I think that is a nice write up - I did meet Rollie one or two times, once I think even at Sam Powell's house in Gaithersburg. He was a likeable person, and Rollie gave it a shot!! I think I went in for at least two subscriptions (and several that I didn't even know about) to the new S Gauge Herald and the mid year change to The Herald and have about 6 published copies, probably in 3 or four different formats including: S-Gauge Herald Vol 20 No 1 July-August 1986 (Regular format) S-Gauge Herald Vol 20 No 3 Dec86-Jan87 (Regular Format) the 1987 calendar The Herald Vol 20 No 4 Feb-Mar 1987 (Regular Format) The Herald Vol XXI No 1 June 1988 (large format, 11"x14", ungainly to say the least) The Herald Vol XXI No 2 Aug-Sept 1988 (Regular Format, but opens on short end, some interesting editorial comments about size change and I quote with original typing errors, etc., etc.: "OOPS! Wha' happened? Don't ask. the editor says, "they ain't gonna believe it" "The tribulation of gettting this @#**! magazine out are more than a strong man can stand!" ..................etc.) I think that was the last issue and I remember waiting in vain for the next issue. There might be more lying around or packed up, but I think that was it. Say, I recognize some of the list of editors (Dick Cataldi, Sam Powell, Eugene Fletcher, Ryan Donnelly?, etc.) but who are people like Carlton Friddly or Algonquin Lufsey? Anyhow, I enjoyed your somewhat milder view of Rollie. Rance Velapoldi Jim Kindraka wrote: > Just to provide a bit of perspective (who could ever accuse brother Ed of > lacking perspective! <G>)... Rollain Mercier was one of the original > movers and shakers of NASG, Inc., serving as Exec. VP on the first NASG, > Inc. BOT and eventually becoming President of the organization in the early > 80's. Sometime after his term, I believe he was awarded the Bernie Thomas > Award: NASG's and S Scales highest honorary recognition. > > Rollie (IMHO) can best be described as a visionary thinker with a bit of > larceny and scoundrel thrown in. Always chasing the next 'big deal' or > 'bold move', he tended to get in over his head when things didn't quite go > right. Rollie never seemed to worry too much about money - his, mine or > yours... He cooked up some interesting business ventures that (obviously) ...........etc. Truncated by Rance. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13076	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 5/4/2001
Subject: Conversion can motors

For those of you that have been tempted and/or curious about the can motors we offered at introductory price until May 1, keep your eyes peeled for a revue in S-Gaugian magazine. For those of you that already bought some, thanks and even more thanks for your kind words on them. They are a great replacement option for those that have dead armatures or dead field magnets. They are also the perfect option for running DCC or other similar operations. They are now available at retail prices through us or through Port Lines Hobby who is our national distributor. They will be available through other S-gauge dealers soon. The prices are $25.95 and $31.95 respectively. Thanks...Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13077	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 5/4/2001
Subject: Re: Preserving the past

Roy, TCA M & E Chairman is Gary Lavinus. Perhaps if we as a group e-mail him with our hopes for NTTM acquiring the Enhorning mtl's, TCA would consider displaying or at least preserving the items available at this time. While I hesitate to give out his e-mail address, you could e-mail me and I will fwd. Jim Lyle [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13078	From: Roy Inman	Date: 5/4/2001
Subject:

Please stop by and take a look, if you are (a)in town, (b)have a moment. Roy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13079	From: belairchevy@webtv.net	Date: 5/4/2001
Subject: MTH "Gabe" & Snow Panel Parts

Went to Caboose Hobbies yesterday to get a bridge for my "G" gauge. Came home with a bridge and the new MTH Gabe The Lamplighter. This is a really nice accessory! Hooked it up to my 4B and Gabe got a workout last night running up and down the ladder. He never missed a step! If you like the reproduction accessories this is a good one. Right now "Gabe" is on a corner panel of my All Aboard Snow Panel Set which brings me to this question...Does anyone have or know where I can get the two snow covered mountains and tunnel piece that came with this set? Any help is appreciated......Thanks! Bradley D. Eggeman (Denver)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13080	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 5/4/2001
Subject: trains on eBay

There is a seller(ssorel@yahoo)has some pretty nice operator stuff. 5 digit S.F. blue and yellow A and B unit,303,350,332,951,2,3,4 green,big lots of knuckle and link freight.Check it out.Keith _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13081	From: John Foley	Date: 5/4/2001
Subject: Fwd: Re: WEB Story

>Delivered-To: foley164@... >From: "Joshua Seltzer" <jseltzer@...> >To: "john foley" <foley164@...> >Subject: Re: WEB Story >Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 16:11:26 -0400 >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 Hi Folks Here's a neat train story Josh Seltzer found on the web. The Foley in the story is nutty enough to be my relative. John >John: > >I thought this might interest you. Check out >http://www.newromanticist.com/literature/foley.htm > > >Josh

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13082	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/4/2001
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: WEB Story

Tried to connect with this web sight but I will not let it set 3 cookies so it tell me "can not be found." Thank you Larry John Foley wrote: > > >Delivered-To: foley164@... > >From: "Joshua Seltzer" <jseltzer@...> > >To: "john foley" <foley164@...> > >Subject: Re: WEB Story > >Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 16:11:26 -0400 > >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 > > Hi Folks > Here's a neat train story Josh Seltzer found on the web. > The Foley in the story is nutty enough to be my > relative. > John > > >John: > > > >I thought this might interest you. Check out > >http://www.newromanticist.com/literature/foley.htm > > > > > >Josh > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13083	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 5/4/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, May 6, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13084	From: busyboy	Date: 5/4/2001
Subject: Those long lost trains

Okay, let me see if I've got this right. By distilling the 43 posts on this, it appears that when a shipper ships a shipment and insures that shipment for the selling price, then the shipment transfers to the shippee when the shipping company picks up the shipment and actually ships it. However, the insurance is made out by the insuror to the shipper and not the shippee, though the shippee may may be required to affirm the details of the shipment and, of course, save all receipts. Shippers buy insurance based on their cost to replace the item and the insurance process is irrelevant to the shippee, who will receive replacements or remuneration. Do you think that this just might be the last word on this subject or is this post only the penultimate word, much like American Model's last item in stock? The horse is dead, we can stop whipping now. Toodles, Chris Zizzo PS PS PS PS PS: There have been a number of mentions of the Digest slowdown this week. Notice that we turned 1000. I think it's all attributable to D1K. CZ Yet another PS: I bought a bunch of stuff on e-Bay from Rollain Mercier. I had no idea who he was. I invited him into this group! CZ >Rollain Mercier was one of the original > movers and shakers of NASG, Inc., serving as Exec. VP on the first NASG, > Inc. BOT and eventually becoming President of the organization in the early > 80's. Sometime after his term, I believe he was awarded the Bernie Thomas > Award: NASG's and S Scales highest honorary recognition. > > Rollie (IMHO) can best be described as a visionary thinker with a bit of > larceny and scoundrel thrown in. Always chasing the next 'big deal' or > 'bold move', he tended to get in over his head when things didn't quite go > right. Rollie never seemed to worry too much about money - his, mine or > yours...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13085	From: Tiny	Date: 5/4/2001
Subject: Price Increase

Hi all, On June 1, 2001, all my decals will be increase by 25 cents each, so buy some now and save before the price increase. So like most of the ones being $3.00 each, they will be $3.25 instead. Have to do it folks, as everything else is going up. -- Tom Stolte - Oddballs Decals N, HO, S & O Scale Model Railroad Decals 26550 227th Street; McLouth, Kansas 66054 Phone: 913-727-6649 - oddballdecal@... Web site http://www.oddballsdecals.com/ Subscribe: OddballsDecals-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Missouri Pacific Photos Web Page: http://www.trainweb.org/mopac/ NMRA Member #121756 "If the women don't find ya handsome, they should at least find ya handy" Red Green

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13086	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/4/2001
Subject: Re: Those long lost trains

The Supreme Court of the good old US of A ruled in a case in New York City as follows. A lady ordered a refrigerator for her place of business, which was a mom and pop candy and grocery store. The truck showed up with the item. The driver had a power lift gate and lowered the item to the sidewalk in front of her store. She ask him to please move it inside. The trucker refused saying that union ruled would not allow it. She refused to sign for the delivery. The trucker reloaded it and took it back to the truck terminal. The item disappears from the trucking terminal. She was sued by the trucking line for the freight. It went to the Supreme Court of the good old US of A and their ruling was: The ownership passed to the lady and her store when it was loaded on the truck for shipment. She had paid for it in advance because the seller would not ship it on open account. She had to pay the freight bill and because it had been delivered and she refused delivered, the freight company was not responsible for its loss. If you people have had UPS deal with the shipper when things are lost, it is because the company ( UPS. USPS or FEDEX ) chose to do it that way, not the law required it. As a shipper I have never dealt with UPS on lost packages. I furnished the needed info to the intended receiver and they dealt with UPS. Also I have always dealt with UPS as the intended receiver when packages have been lost coming my way. The shipper supplied The needed info and I made the claim. Case closed. End of story. Thank you gentleman Larry Jackman busyboy wrote: > > Okay, let me see if I've got this right. By distilling the 43 posts on > this, it appears that when a shipper ships a shipment and insures that > shipment for the selling price, then the shipment transfers to the shippee > when the shipping company picks up the shipment and actually ships it. > However, the insurance is made out by the insuror to the shipper and not the > shippee, though the shippee may may be required to affirm the details of the > shipment and, of course, save all receipts. Shippers buy insurance based on > their cost to replace the item and the insurance process is irrelevant to > the shippee, who will receive replacements or remuneration. > > Do you think that this just might be the last word on this subject or is > this post only the penultimate word, much like American Model's last item in > stock? > > The horse is dead, we can stop whipping now. > > Toodles, > Chris Zizzo > > PS PS PS PS PS: > There have been a number of mentions of the Digest slowdown this week. > Notice that we turned 1000. I think it's all attributable to D1K. > > CZ > > Yet another PS: > I bought a bunch of stuff on e-Bay from Rollain Mercier. I had no idea who > he was. I invited him into this group! > > CZ > > >Rollain Mercier was one of the original > > movers and shakers of NASG, Inc., serving as Exec. VP on the first NASG, > > Inc. BOT and eventually becoming President of the organization in the > early > > 80's. Sometime after his term, I believe he was awarded the Bernie Thomas > > Award: NASG's and S Scales highest honorary recognition. > > > > Rollie (IMHO) can best be described as a visionary thinker with a bit of > > larceny and scoundrel thrown in. Always chasing the next 'big deal' or > > 'bold move', he tended to get in over his head when things didn't quite go > > right. Rollie never seemed to worry too much about money - his, mine or > > yours... > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13087	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 5/4/2001
Subject: Help -- swap??

Does anyone out there have a pair of scale drive wheel sets for the Rex Suburban that they'd like to trade for Suburban hi-rail drivers? Dick Karnes

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13088	From: Rick Evans	Date: 5/4/2001
Subject: Re: Those long lost trains

busyboy (Chris)wrote: ***((( Okay, let me see if I've got this right. By distilling the 43 posts on this, it appears that when a shipper ships a shipment and insures that shipment for the selling price, then the shipment transfers to the shippee when the shipping company picks up the shipment and actually ships it. However, the insurance is made out by the insuror to the shipper and not the shippee, though the shippee may may be required to affirm the details of the shipment and, of course, save all receipts. Shippers buy insurance based on their cost to replace the item and the insurance process is irrelevant to the shippee, who will receive replacements or remuneration.)))**** Gee....thanks Chris!! Up to this point, I thought I had it figured out!! :-) Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13089	From: Michael Greene	Date: 5/5/2001
Subject: Updates to the NASG web site

To: NASG Members Others in the world of "S" From: Michael Greene NASG Web site Director Subject: Updates to the NASG Web site I'd like to take a few minutes of your time to call your attention to a number of changes that have been very recently made to the National Association of S Gaugers, Inc. (NASG) web site. We hope these changes will make the site more useful, easier to use/navigate, and we wanted to let you know that in addition, the changes are designed to provide a framework for expansion of the NASG's web site to include new material. Our goal has been to get a new framework in place, and then start expanding and filling it out. So please don't consider this an ending point -- it simply represents a launch point for further improvements. You'll probably notice "Under Construction" signs around the new web site, and when you see them you'll know we've got active work underway to enhance these areas. Please direct any and all questions, corrections, updates, suggestions, etc. to mailto:mgreene@... Look and feel -------------- The NASG's web site has a new look and feel, with more navigation bars, some departmental organization, etc. We hope this look & feel "refresh" makes it even easier to navigate our web site. And now that the basic framework is in place, the web site can & will be expanded as the organization needs/requires and/or users request. Introduction to the NASG ------------------------ We've brought the current text of the "This is S Gauge" brochure on-line along with membership benefits and an application to join. Over time we'll continue to enhance this section to develop an even stronger, more compelling case for S and for NASG membership. For Members section ------------------- This is a new section specifically for NASG members. Included in this section you will find the On-line Members listing, the NASG leadership directory and contact information, information on Special Run cars available exclusively to NASG members, and information on the NASG branded items available through the NASG Clearinghouse. For Special Run cars, photos, descriptions, and order forms (to be printed and mailed with your payment) are available on the web site. S Clubs section --------------- Maintained as before, but now all links to club web sites are from the S Clubs page. I would ask representatives of all clubs to check their listing and advise of any changes, updates, corrections, etc. Publications ------------ Information on the NASG Dispatch and contact information for other S specific publications. One of the new features for the Publications page will be an on-line listing of the current issue's table of contents, beginning with the next issue. S Modular section ----------------- Maintained as before with information on S modules. Library section --------------- A new library section has been added to the web site. In the on-line library you'll find a several new pieces of on-line information. First, we're beginning to bring NASG Standards and Recommended Practices on-line. Standards S3, S3.5, S4, S4.5 and RP3 & RP4 are already on-line. More will follow. Second, for those of you interested in the NASG history, we're bringing on-line a five part series titled The NASG Story, written by Bob Jackson, and previously published in the Dispatch. Part 1, Part 2 and Part 3 are already on-line with the rest to follow shortly. Read it on-line or print it out to read off-line. Third, we're currently planning to bring other articles about S on-line, and we're investigating ways to do with the most efficiency. See the Library page for more details. Finally, we would like to hear about other items that you think would enhance the value of the on-line library. We are already considering such basics as the NASG Constitution and NASG By-laws. If you know of other items that you feel would be of benefit to be on-line, please send us a note. Photos and the Photo Gallery ---------------------------- We planning to increase the use of photos with the web site. Beginning May 21 we plan to feature a new photo from the world of S on the web site home page EVERY TWO WEEKS. More details on how to submit yours & relevant requirements will be on the web site shortly. We're hoping this will give an improved "view" of the world of S -- layouts and people. In addition we will be instituting a photo gallery to retain photos previously featured and provide links to other S photos on the web. While we are not necessarily interested in becoming a major photo archive for S photos, we do want to feature pictures from the world of S. And we will include links to photo collections provided by others, such as a club's report on a convention they hosted or a report on a show they attended. S Products ---------- This be a new department coming to the web site. A place has been allocated for it, but we're still investigating a suitable organization and supporting technology that will make navigation, access, content, and updates effective and useful. You'll be hearing more about this over the coming months. There are so many new products in S these days that it has become difficult to keep up. And for someone new looking at our scale, we want to provide a fresh approach to seeing what is available in S. So we're looking at some new approaches to organizing, showcasing, and highlighting the ever increasing portfolio of S products. On-line Member Listing ---------------------- We've enhanced our Online Member listing to support links to a member's web page/site about their layout. You'll note some members already have the word "layout" with a hyperlink out to the right of their location. As we cleaned up the Links page on the old site, valid links to what appeared to be member's personal web sites were moved to the Online Members listing. If you click on "Layout" next to a member you will jump to their web page. Note we may be replacing the word "Layout" as the link with an icon in the near future. The rules for members utilizing this are fairly simple. The link should be to a web page that showcases your layout (or layout plans, construction, etc) or perhaps your S collection if you are a collector. It is NOT for links to "for sale" or business pages, nor is it designed to become a classified advertising section. Members who cannot meet the basic guidelines will have the links removed. Current NASG members are encouraged to maintain listings in the on-line directory to facilitate communication among NASG members. Current members may submit information to be listed in the directory (or updates as needed), along with links to their layout web page by using the mail contact information on the web site. As a reminder, members are responsible for notifying us of changes in links to their web page. Broken links will be removed when found, so please keep us advised of moves in your layout page. Members must have an email address in the on-line directory in order to have a link to their layout web page, so we can follow-up if we find a broken link. Links ----- Links are both a major value to web site users and also the bane of most web masters. The former because the connect users to other related sites which may be of interest. The latter because the links are often broken when the user goes to access the link - that is the linked page is missing or has moved. And there is nothing more frustrating for the user than seeing a link that sounds just like what they are looking for, and then finding the link doesn't work. And unfortunately we found a lot of broken links on the NASG Links page. No fault of any specific person or group -- just that it requires a lot of vigilance and work on everyone's part to prevent this. We will continue to maintain links from the NASG web site to other web sites where we believe they are valuable to the membership. Links are maintained under these guidelines: - Links to a member's personal web page will be from the Online Members page only. - Links to club web sites will be from the club's listing on the S Clubs web page only. - Other Links will be from the Links page in general. (This guideline may be further detailed as it relates to links to product & manufacturer web sites, as we bring the Products section online.) - In general, links from the NASG's web site to another site will appear on one page (the appropriate page) only. We will attempt to avoid duplicate links to the same site from multiple pages on the NASG web site, as multiple links compound the broken links problem. - Broken links will be removed when found. While we will make a best effort to contact the linked site web master to find out why the link broke, it is the final responsibility of the linked web site owner to update the NASG web master on changes to linked sites that require link changes on the NASG's web site. We want to be as supportive on links as possible and as our resources permit. But broken links are of no value to anyone, and will be removed as found. - For links TO the NASG website, we recommend that the link be to the NASG's home page, instead of a sub-page. While we don't plan to move pages around, it will reduce the chance that other sites' web masters will experience broken links to the NASG web site. If you are a site owner and prefer to link to a sub-page of the NASG web site, please contact us, and we will make every effort to accommodate your request, and thus not create a broken link situation if we have to move a page. If you had a site linked from the NASG's web site and the link is now missing, it is most likely because the link was broken, and was removed when we validated the site. Please feel free to re-submit the correct link, following the guidelines above. NASG.ORG domain and Bookmarks ----------------------------- For those of you who may have book marked specific pages in the NASG's old web site, we may have broken some of these. We tried to keep this to a minimum, and we apologize for any inconveniences. We're also pleased to announce that the folks at TrainWeb.Com who currently host our web site, have also graciously agreed to host our domain NASG.ORG. Over the next week or so we'll be completing the technical steps necessary to move the domain to TrainWeb. With the process involved and the response time from Network Solutions, Inc. on changes it may be 1-2 weeks before the changes are complete and percolate through the worldwide Internet. Those of you who wish to re-establish broken book marks may wish to wait a couple of weeks. At that time, if all goes as planned, you'll be able to do it using http://www.nasg.org as the web location. But of course in the meantime, you can reach our web site through either: http://trainweb.com/nasg (can book mark all pages currently) or http://www.nasg.org (will not currently let you book mark sub pages) Summary -------- As we said at the beginning of this note, we hope these changes and future improvements will make the current site even easier to use, a better resource to you the member and modeler, and as we add additional material, make it easy to find and use the new material. As always suggestions, corrections, updates, etc. are welcome at: mailto:mgreene@... Regards.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13090	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/5/2001
Subject: I fixed my computer clock!

Hi all, Everyone who's noticed the wrong dates & times on my postings, relax! I figured out where the computer clock battery was and replaced it. It's been on time for three days now. That much have been it. Turned out to be a simple pop out and pop in replacement, even got the battery at a drug store! (no not a head shop) ;-) Wish I'd realized a long time ago how simple that was! Now to go back to fixin' trains! S' David D. PS I was going to say that that also stopped the crashing problem, but then the danged thing locked up again. Had to reboot to post. . . RATS

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13091	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 5/5/2001
Subject: Four axle trucks?

Ok, does anyone manufacture such a thing (four axle trucks) in S? I have the urge to build something and might cobble up a UP Centennial out of a couple of GP-30/35 just for fun. Jeff T.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13092	From: Rick Evans	Date: 5/5/2001
Subject: Old A.C. Gilbert Flyer ads.........

I am looking for old Flyer ads from the 40's and 50's from Life magazine etc. Paul C. Nelson's book on Flyer has a listing of all ads placed in various magazines. About a year ago or so, I bought an ad from a 1946 life magazine. I assumed it had to be one of the first "S" gauge Flyer ads. Nelson's book has a picture of it on page 166, minus the color. According to his list, it was the first ad in a magazine. Bought the ad for $4,...but I just had it matted and framed for close to $80!! Sure looks nice though. Tried to match the blue from an older Flyer box, and had to use a duller yellow to match the yellow in the ad. Also have a small ad from '49 that came from a Popular Science I believe,...had it matted and I framed it to save some bucks. Just curious if anyone else has been collecting Flyer ads or related items, to hang on the ol' wall. An older Classic Toy Trains mag had an article on framing and hanging Lionel ads and art work, and that of course sparked my interest to do the same. I just can't afford to have TOO many frames made,..will half to buy some cheapies from a store!!! Rick (Hangin' on the wall) Evans

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13093	From: Mike Vana	Date: 5/5/2001
Subject: Small motor 336's

Add me to the list of people who have a small motor 336, and as info, it is an early one, with black cloth wires. My K335 has a small motor, too. I think that there are too many small motor 336's around to consider that somebody had been swapping out motors. Where would all those motors go, anyway? Has anyone ever bought a steam loco other than a 313, 326, or 336, or their 5 digit successors, with a large motor? I have a late 21130 with a large motor, and I saw a 21139 on Ebay with a large motor, too, but I don't know if 21115's, 21129's, 21140's, or all 21130's have them. It's pretty well documented that 313's made in 1955 have small motors, and those from 1956 and 1957 have large motors. Perhaps only 326's and 336's made in 1956-57 have large motors, but I'm not around enough AF to check that out. Mike Vana Omaha, NE.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13094	From: John Foley	Date: 5/5/2001
Subject: Train Time TV show

Hi All S Gaugers I need you HELP. I am working to convince Train Time a TV show that originates from the eastern PA area to attend our convention. So here is what I would like you folks to do, go to their website at http://www.cardinalvp.com/traintime/ Check it out, then find their email address and send then a note telling them way they should come to our convention Steamtown USA 2001 This July at the Radisson Lackawanna Lackawanna Hotel. Also tell them to contact me John Foley Email foley164@... or call at 570 622-3413. 3 1/2 million watch their show and we all can buy a copy of the show from them if they do it. Please CC: me what you email them Thanks in advance John Foley Convention Co-Chairmen P.S. add our convention website to your email http://trainweb.org/steamtown2001/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13095	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 5/5/2001
Subject: FUTURE OF S GAUGE

We often lament that children don't have a modern prototype train in S gauge. Last week I was at a Disney Wedding Chapel wedding but I didn't take pictures of nor ride on the Disney Monorail. Well, Disney has a model of the Monorail Train system. I scaled the battery operated model and an S Gauge figure can enter the doors. Also the pylons that the track are supported on clear my S gauge trains and track. So we have a candidate for kitbashing. It just needs DCC control since it has a protosound system included. Has anyone else stumbled on this gem? Yes! I bought a set. For those that like Disney or weddings here are the pictures: Just click on: http://www.geocities.com/glenn_ritter then go to: "Our Cousin's Wedding at Disney's Wedding Chapel" Staying on the NPSG branchline of NASG track, Glenn Ritter,

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13096	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 5/5/2001
Subject: Re: Those long lost trains

It is troubling that so many think that once they deliver an item to UPS, that no matter what happens, it is the buyer's problem. Maybe you will win in court. but please let me know this is your position, so that I know not to deal with you on eBay or any other type of business transaction. As an occasional eBay seller, I have always believed that I had some responsibility to deliver the item sold to the buyer in one piece. Latey when purchasing on eBay, I have been receiving many broken pieces, improperly packed. You end up between a seller who wants to wash his hands of the thing because it is not his problem once he gives the item to the shipper, and the shipper who does not want to pay because the item was improperly packed. This is getting old! Again, you main win in court by saying it is UPSes fault, but it is poor customer service, and I would love to know in advance this is the position that the seller wants to take, so I can take my business somewhere else.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13097	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 5/5/2001
Subject: FUTURE OF S GAUGE

I've seen the current "Mark V" monorail set for sale at Disneyland, and occasionally at GATS and TTOS meets. At least one of the TTOS SP division members has one set up on his O gauge layout. Almost bought one myself, but decided not to, since we have a Kenner SkyRail monorail that we intend to put on our modular system, assuming I can get the 40-year-old "skycar" to work. If I'm not mistaken, the Disneyland set runs on batteries in the train itself and has no conductors in the rail (is that right?) In that case, DCC conversion might be a problem. It might be easier just to put a radio control system in the power unit. One good thing: additional track sets are available, so your monorail line can grow. I don't remember what the specific curve/straight complement of the track sets is. BTW, with a monorail, you could have S scale, but how would you have S gauge? 8^D Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13098	From: Walt Danylak	Date: 5/5/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Whatza Rollie??

--- In S-Trains@y..., Rance and Bente Velapoldi <velapoldi@n...> wrote: Jim: I think that is a nice write up - I did meet Rollie one or two times, once I think even at Sam Powell's house in Gaithersburg. He was a likeable person, and Rollie gave it a shot!! I think I went in for at least two subscriptions (and several that I didn't even know about) to the new S Gauge Herald and the mid year change to The Herald and have about 6 published copies, probably in 3 or four different formats including: S-Gauge Herald Vol 20 No 1 July-August 1986 (Regular format) S-Gauge Herald Vol 20 No 3 Dec86-Jan87 (Regular Format) the 1987 calendar The Herald Vol 20 No 4 Feb-Mar 1987 (Regular Format) The Herald Vol XXI No 1 June 1988 (large format, 11"x14", ungainly to say the least) The Herald Vol XXI No 2 Aug-Sept 1988 (Regular Format, but opens on short end, some interesting editorial comments about size change and I quote with original typing errors, etc., etc.: "OOPS! Wha' happened? Don't ask. the editor says, "they ain't gonna believe it" "The tribulation of gettting this @#**! magazine out are more than a strong man can stand!" ..................etc.) Rance, There are at least 4 more issues of Rollie's SGH/TH. They are: SGH Vol 20 No 2 Oct-Nov 1986 (magazine format) TH Vol 20 No 5 Apr-May 1987 (magazine format) TH Vol 21 No 3 Oct-Nov 1988 (catalog format) SGH Vol 22 No 1 Oct-Nov 1994 (magazine format) Note that for the last issue the name reverted back to SGH. WAlt

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13099	From: William Porter	Date: 5/5/2001
Subject: Re: Monorails and The Future

Yup, I have three sets - two white ones and one 'collectible' silver job that was available before the general sale. In addition to the doors, the width of the cars is about right. I have been to Walt Disney World a bunch and paced the inside of the train. With those accurate measurements in hand, I computed that the model is about the right width for S. The lengths of the end cars (with control stations) and the center cars are a bit short for S - no surprise to those of us reading about the 'Great CZ Debate. The mechanism is not robust. We should not expect a lot for the $55.00 price tag that buys a train and track. I suspect that it would make sense to replace the cheapo motor and gears before I would invest in a radio or DCC control. As far as the future is concerned, I bought a couple of extra sets when they first came out and took them to local train shows. I asked $60.00 for them and received no end of grief from the passing patrons. They claimed I was ripping them since they could go to the Park and buy a set for $55.00. Of course, they would need to pay 6% Florida sales tax up there (150 miles away) and buy gas, pay tolls, park the car, buy admission (at the time they were only available in the parks) and then carry the thing back home. The responses I got made it seem like a poor promotion and a bad entrepreneurial venture for me. It makes all the more respectful of the guff that AM and SHS have to put up with. And now, back to my scenery, Bill Porter ----- Original Message ----- From: Glenn Ritter <gartrain@...> To: A/S-Trains <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2001 5:36 PM Subject: [S-Trains] FUTURE OF S GAUGE > We often lament that children don't > have a modern prototype train in S gauge. > Last week I was at a Disney Wedding > Chapel wedding but I didn't take pictures > of nor ride on the Disney Monorail. > Well, Disney has a model of the > Monorail Train system. > > I scaled the battery operated model > and an S Gauge figure can enter the doors. > Also the pylons that the track are supported > on clear my S gauge trains and track. > So we have a candidate for kitbashing. > It just needs DCC control since it has > a protosound system included. Has > anyone else stumbled on this gem? > Yes! I bought a set. > > For those that like Disney or weddings > here are the pictures: Just click on: > http://www.geocities.com/glenn_ritter > then go to: > "Our Cousin's Wedding at Disney's Wedding Chapel" > > Staying on the NPSG branchline > of NASG track, Glenn Ritter, > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13100	From: benevrcrgi@aol.com	Date: 5/5/2001
Subject: no subject

unsubscribe

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13101	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 5/6/2001
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Historial

Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Historial Bob Jackson in 1986 did a 4 part history of the NASG touching on many other aspects of S gauge. The story covers 4 issues of the Dispatch, Vol. IX no.3. Vol. IX no. 4, Vol. X no. 2 and Vol. X no.4. It is about 21 pages long. Perhaps it could be used as a base for a more extensive history. Part of this story is being loaded on the NASG Website: http://www.nasg.org or http://www.trainweb.com/nasg/ then go to Library/NASG History "For those of you interested in the NASG history, we're bringing on-line a five part series titled The NASG Story, written by Bob Jackson, and previously published in the Dispatch. Parts 1 and 2 are already on-line with the rest to follow shortly. Read it on-line or print it out to read off-line." Michael Greene <mgreene@...> Copies can be ordered from: Kent Singer <k_singer@...> Staying on the NPSG branchline of NASG track, Glenn

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13102	From: Walt Danylak	Date: 5/6/2001
Subject: Continental Flyer

Everyone, A friend of mine that operates a hobby shop received a phone call and then some literature in the mail concerning Continental Flyer starting up again. As anyone else been contacted by CF? For those of you who are not fimilair with the name CF, I'll give you a little background. In the mid 70's CF was formed to produce S gauge trains that were more less copies of AF. The company was based in the New Haven, CT area and held a ground breaking ceremony, which I attended. They claimed to have orders from Sears and other national chain stores, but either the orders and/or the financial backing to start the company never materialized. If you have access to the SGH or SG from 1977, you can read all about CF. Walt

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13103	From: William Porter	Date: 5/6/2001
Subject: ZOT Status Update

Howdy Gents, I have been working on the scenery for the new ZOT. The next installment of the saga can be found at the 'Current Status' link on my personal page..... http://wpporter.home.att.net/ Next up is screen covering! Bill Porter wpporter@... 561 791 1781 15212 79th Court N Loxahatchee, FL 33470 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13104	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 5/6/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, May 6, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13105	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 5/6/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Help -- swap??

Ed & Judi Loizeaux wrote: > Dick... > > If all else fails, a guy in our club might be willing to machine the > flanges down for you. I could ask him at least. Thanks, Ed. But I have found a fellow to swap Rex drivers with. So the need has been resolved. Dick Karnes

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13106	From: Scott Holm	Date: 5/6/2001
Subject: Re: Those long lost trains

--- Chuck Harrington <myflyertrains@...> wrote: > It is troubling that so many think that once they deliver an item to > UPS, that no matter what happens, it is the buyer's problem. Only one person on this list seems to think that's true. > Maybe you will win in court. Not likely. The US Postal Service requires the sender to file a claim for lost shipments. It's only common sense that the sender is responsible for getting it to the buyer. The addressee is not responsible until he receives the package. Don't believe the bogus court case story, which belongs in the urban legend category. > Again, you main win in court by saying it is UPSes fault, but it is > poor customer service, and I would love to know in advance this is > the position that the seller wants to take, so I can take my business > somewhere else. Amen! Sellers who do business this way should be avoided like the plague. Pity the poor customers who believe their nonsense. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13107	From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com	Date: 5/6/2001
Subject: Disney Monorail

Hey, Just read with great interest about the Disney Monorail model. Seems like there were some posts about it over a year ago. My wife and I were at Disney this past January and had a chance to take a closer look. Fortunately, I didn't buy one at the time, as when we got home, we were broke. But hope to get one on our return trip this June. Price for the Monorail and track at the time was $60.00 and additional track was, I believe, $10.00. The sets are available at different shops through the Disney properties, but we also spotted them at the airport souvenir shops. BTW: If you are a member of the Disney club, you can get 10% off at the Disney marketplace. Coming soon: An easy way to start that darned angel hair through those little holes in an AF smoke unit. Bill Trefts ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13108	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/6/2001
Subject: Re: Those long lost trains

Why don't you ask your lawyer to look it up for you in his law books. The Post office is a different story. They are not a common carrier but an arm of your great goverment. I will see what I can find in the law books and give you the case number and then you can look it up. Thank you gentleman Larry Jackman Scott Holm wrote: > > --- Chuck Harrington <myflyertrains@...> wrote: > > It is troubling that so many think that once they deliver an item to > > UPS, that no matter what happens, it is the buyer's problem. > > Only one person on this list seems to think that's true. > > > Maybe you will win in court. > > Not likely. The US Postal Service requires the sender to file a claim > for lost shipments. It's only common sense that the sender is > responsible for getting it to the buyer. The addressee is not > responsible until he receives the package. Don't believe the bogus > court case story, which belongs in the urban legend category. > > > Again, you main win in court by saying it is UPSes fault, but it is > > poor customer service, and I would love to know in advance this is > > the position that the seller wants to take, so I can take my business > > somewhere else. > > Amen! Sellers who do business this way should be avoided like the > plague. Pity the poor customers who believe their nonsense. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13109	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 5/7/2001
Subject: NASG ELECTION BALLOTS

Although the details of the election can not be released until after the May 15 mailing deadline and the May 30 receiving deadline I am overwhelmed with the returns so far. When I drafted the ballots for the election I added a note that the survey in the April Dispatch could be sent back with the ballot. Please don't wait for the April Dispatch as the election is more important although I do want to write a survey article before the July convention so I hope we do get a good response when the April Dispatch hits the newsstands. Staying on the NPSG branchline of NASG track, Glenn Ritter NASG Secretary Business website: http://www.glennritterarchitect.com/ Personal website at: http://www.geocities.com/glenn_ritter

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13110	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 5/7/2001
Subject: ebay seller

the seller I mentioned in my last message is actually ssorel@... Keith _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13111	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 5/7/2001
Subject: Re: [showcaseline] S Gauge Heralds

Hi Russ, I for one would buy such a collection. The NASG should also have the Heralds in a Library for public viewing. I have copies of the original 1976 charter plus most of the NASG minutes from 1978 to present in a blue binder to stay with future NASG secretaries. Staying on the NPSG branchline of NASG track, Glenn NASG secretary Russell Mobley wrote: Since we have been into the "History of NASG", and some of the history of the "Herald", and all about "Rollie", some of the new-comers have written me about articles from the old Heralds. Along with Jay Mellon, I had gotten together all of my issues of the Herald; which is a complete file of them from beginning to end. We were interested in getting them reproduced and put into either a hard-back book or a soft-back book. We could either have them in increments of one, five, or more years per book. I ran a little blurp in the Dispatch about the idea, but had no response at all. I would be willing to reconsider the idea and get some information about printing it and binding them if some of you would want to help with the expense. Let me hear from you............Russ Mobley [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13112	From: J. Paul Hartman	Date: 5/7/2001
Subject: Re: Disney Monorail

Someone asked about the monorail circle size! It is 51 inches in diameter. Set ours up at Christmas and could not use the typical 4 by 8 board which we all grew up with for our trains. Anyway - the circle is 51 inches in diameter and the straights are 10 inches (I believe). Yes it is a nice and relatively inexpensive accessory with the nice announcing sound chip. The Florida Sales Tax at WDW is 6% I believe (it varies between counties) - so the set is $63.60. There are now two colors (the stripe) - the earliest sets were red and I think the latest is blue (or black). Paul Hartman On Sun, 6 May 2001 wmhtreftsv@... wrote: > Hey, > > Just read with great interest about the Disney Monorail model. Seems > like there were some posts about it over a year ago. My wife and I were > at Disney this past January and had a chance to take a closer look. > Fortunately, I didn't buy one at the time, as when we got home, we were > broke. But hope to get one on our return trip this June. Price for the > Monorail and track at the time was $60.00 and additional track was, I > believe, $10.00. The sets are available at different shops through the > Disney properties, but we also spotted them at the airport souvenir > shops. > > BTW: If you are a member of the Disney club, you can get 10% off at the > Disney marketplace. > > Coming soon: An easy way to start that darned angel hair through those > little holes in an AF smoke unit. > > Bill Trefts > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13113	From: Dave	Date: 5/7/2001
Subject: Just Arived!

Welp The Budd cars i ordered from American Models arived about a half hour ago. After opening the box it was shipped in (and spilling plastic peanuts all over) I found a box with Budd marked across the top. I'm thinking to myself if nothing else the box is impressive. The real surprise came after I opened the Budd car set box. These cars are absolutly gorgous! My only disapointment was that I only ordered one extra coach. I'm a hi-railer and the cars i received were finished in chrome. The detail and the decorating (PRR) is some of the best I've seen. A job well done! I just thought I'd pass that along to any one who's interested. Dave

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13114	From: John Foley	Date: 5/7/2001
Subject: American Models E-8's

Hi Folks WOW!!!!! AMERICAN MODELS E-8S CHECK THEM OUT IN THE S GAUGAIN John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13115	From: dthomas@eznet.net	Date: 5/7/2001
Subject: Disney Monorail Accessories

Disney World in Orlando also sells at least 2 accessories to go with the Monorail: 1. EPCOT Spaceship Earth Building - $35. This is the ATT large sphere near the entrance. 2. Contemporary Hotel - $35. The A-Frame, which the monorail passes through on it's way to the Magic Kingdom. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13116	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 5/8/2001
Subject: Re: American Models E-8's

Yep. According to e-mail from RB, the E8 shells are waiting their turn to be painted. More good news: Masks are now being made for the SD60 shells. We will soon have a contemporary freight locomotive in S. Finally! Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13117	From: Douglass Allen	Date: 5/8/2001
Subject: Disney monorail train

The train can be ordered from Disney world by mail order, which is what I did. You don't have to make a trip to Florida to get it. Call the nearest Disney store for the address. Odd that the Disney stores don't carry it. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13118	From: Bill Lane	Date: 5/8/2001
Subject: Enhorning items - the final report

Hi All, I was VERY surprised to get the following email in reference to the Enhorning items that I had for sale. It would seem that some of the recent S Scale preservation posts might have been heard by TCA officials. There are more then enough F units in the lot for a TCA display. Perhaps a NASG official could contact Jim Lyle (via me) and buy a few pieces from the TCA for a NASG display as has been recently mentioned. Everyone is a winner here. Bill, Gary Lavinus, Museum and Education Chair at the TCA's National Toy Train Museum has asked me to offer a bid for the Enhorning items. The hope is that we would be able at some future date be able to display them as examples of S Gauge mfg's other than Gilbert. I am a member of the M & E Committee, my area being the S-Gauge layout and displays. Thank You, Jim Lyle

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13119	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 5/8/2001
Subject: Fwd: Preserving our Heritage

--- In S-Scale@y..., Roy Hoffman <royhoffman@y...> wrote: Jim Lyle had emailed me off-line and told me of the bid by the Toy Train Museum for the Enhorning stuff. I anxiously awaited word of the bidding and was happy to hear from Jim of the winning bid. Jim also added that the musuem displays and runs the A-M Amtrak set, and many of the S-Helper cars, including the PS-2's, wood stock and box cars, TOFC's and a Conrail Switcher and caboose. Of course, theirs lots of ACG, too. The NTTM is located in Strasburg, PA which is arguably the best concentration of trains and model trains in the country. S will get a double benefit in that our heritage will be on display as well as the latest equipment. A lot of people will be visiting the museum so we couldn't ask for a better way to showcase our gauge. Our thanks should go out to Jim and Gary and the TCA for their efforts on our behalf. Roy Hoffman __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ --- End forwarded message ---

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13120	From: Mark Preman	Date: 5/8/2001
Subject: American Flyer Trains For Sale

The May list is up and full of York "stuff". Mark http://www.americanflyertrains.com ===== Mark B. Preman AmericanFlyerTrains.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13121	From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi	Date: 5/8/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] S Gauge Heralds

Russ: Tx for your efforts. It needs someone like you with the historical knowledge of NASG. We really appreciate it. Although I have built Kinsman, etc. from the early 60's, I never knew much about the history. Keep it going, and tx again. Rance Unfortunately, I have pretty much a full set if the Herald, so I can't really say that I will buy one. Russell Mobley wrote:

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13122	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/8/2001
Subject: Lost shippments, etc.

Well, I didn't want to reopen this discussion, but my Gabe is lost in Raleigh, NC, and UPS requires the shipper to instigate the trace, not the receiver. Hmm. so just who owns the Gabe?? S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13123	From: David Garber	Date: 5/8/2001
Subject: Lost shippments etc.

well we have a club inside a club . My gabe made it to Conn. but was delivered to the wrong address in the wrong town . Dave I wonder If the guys at UPS know something .I saw and talked tond Mike Wolf TOday but fond out about the lack of delivery when the brown truck did not stop and that was at 5:00.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13124	From: John Foley	Date: 5/8/2001
Subject: (no subject)

Convention News!!! Hi Conventioneers Something a little extra for Steamtown USA. Mr Forwood " Fordy " Smith will be giving a special clinic " Steam, Electric & Routes of the Pennsy. The clinic will start on Friday July 27th at 10am in one of the clinic rooms and it will finish at Steamtown using one of the display steamers. At the end of Fordy's presentation he will be happy to answer your questions. Fordy is an old time steam engineer and later he run GG-1's. for the Pennsy. His father and brother were both engineers for the Pennsy also. Fordy's father started in 1916 and retired 44 years later. He also held the speed record for awhile between Washington and New York . So come to the clinic for great Information and stories. Even if you not a Pennsy fan it will be entertaining. Their is no charge. John Foley Convention Co-Chairman [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13125	From: Dan Brindell	Date: 5/8/2001
Subject: Re: Those long lost trains (conclusion)

Okay, I got so tired of reading this thread that I decided to look it up myself. The reference is http://www.law.cornell.edu/ucc/2/2-401.html See Paragraph 2, Sections a and b (and no, I am not a lawyer, so don't ask). Here is the language from that section: "(a) if the contract requires or authorizes the seller to send the goods to the buyer but does not require him to deliver them at destination, title passes to the buyer at the time and place of shipment; but (b) if the contract requires delivery at destination, title passes on tender there." The reason this question is so confusing is because you are both right. A contract calling for delivery of goods can be written either way. Line (a) says that the contract can be written so ownership passes to the buyer at shipment. Line (b) says that a contract can be written so that ownership doesn't pass to the buyer until the items are delivered. So you are both right. It can be done either way. But it is only worth the mess of hiring lawyers to write a contract when the item in question is very expensive. BUT....for a relatively small item like toy trains, I would do the following. If I ordered an item and it didn't show up, I would contact the seller and ask him to re-send the item or refund my money. It would then be up to the seller to contact UPS or the Post Office or whoever for a refund. If the seller refused the refund, I would contact my credit card issuer. Under the Fair Credit Reporting Act (and no, I am NOT looking that up for you, ask your bank!), the buyer is entitled to reverse the credit card charge if the item wasn't received. So that is what you need to do. Of course this only works with credit cards. If you sent a check or money order to an eBay seller you are out of luck. Now will you please start talking about S-Trains again! Dan Brindell (a) if the contract requires or authorizes the seller to send the goods to the buyer but does not require him to deliver them at destination, title passes to the buyer at the time and place of shipment; but (b) if the contract requires delivery at destination, title passes on tender there -----Original Message----- From: lawrence jackman <ljack70117@...> To: Scott Holm <imsscott@...> Cc: s-trains <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Date: Sunday, May 06, 2001 11:26 PM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Those long lost trains >Why don't you ask your lawyer to look it up for you in his law books. >The Post office is a different story. They are not a common carrier but >an arm of your great goverment. >I will see what I can find in the law books and give you the case number >and then you can look it up. >Thank you gentleman >Larry Jackman > >Scott Holm wrote: >> >> --- Chuck Harrington <myflyertrains@...> wrote: >> > It is troubling that so many think that once they deliver an item to >> > UPS, that no matter what happens, it is the buyer's problem. >> >> Only one person on this list seems to think that's true. >> >> > Maybe you will win in court. >> >> Not likely. The US Postal Service requires the sender to file a claim >> for lost shipments. It's only common sense that the sender is >> responsible for getting it to the buyer. The addressee is not >> responsible until he receives the package. Don't believe the bogus >> court case story, which belongs in the urban legend category. >> >> > Again, you main win in court by saying it is UPSes fault, but it is >> > poor customer service, and I would love to know in advance this is >> > the position that the seller wants to take, so I can take my business >> > somewhere else. >> >> Amen! Sellers who do business this way should be avoided like the >> plague. Pity the poor customers who believe their nonsense. >> >> __________________________________________________ >> Do You Yahoo!? >> Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices >> http://auctions.yahoo.com/ >> >> S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >> All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! >> >> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... >> >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13126	From: David Garber	Date: 5/9/2001
Subject: Re: Lost shippments etc.

--- In S-Trains@y..., "David Garber" <dngarb@y...> wrote: > well we have a club inside a club . My gabe made it to Conn. but was > delivered to the wrong address in the wrong town . Dave I wonder If > the guys at UPS know something .I saw and talked tond Mike Wolf > TOday but fond out about the lack of delivery when the brown truck > did not stop and that was at 5:00. I had to pick gabe up at the wrong address .He was fine .Just have to slow down the UPS man, as long as the truck is empty he has delivered it all. BTW if a claim was to be filed UPS told me to have the shipper do it.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13127	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 5/9/2001
Subject: Re: Disney Monorail

What scale is it? Thorin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13128	From: roberte613@aol.com	Date: 5/9/2001
Subject: Re: Lost shipments etc.

Must be the full moon. My Gabe arrived broken. The dealer has instructed me to contact UPS. Let you know what happens. Robert Ellis

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13129	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/9/2001
Subject: Re: Lost shippments etc. & lost posts!

HI all According to the shipper, UPS told him my Gabe is on a truck enroute to CA and should be at my door on Friday. According to the UPS web site, it is still at Raleigh since the 5th. So, fingers crossed! It is also interesting that this reply is posted to a post referring to another post that I've not received! Hmm, time to talk to my ISP again--it's not the first time their system has "hic-uped". I'll let you all know Fri PM if he's arrived. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13130	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 5/9/2001
Subject: Fw: Fwd: Fw: Fw: For real: how to lower Gas Prices ..

This and its attachments have been anti-virus scanned. This contains attachment within attachment. Seems like a good idea, But since I REALLY TRUST Big Oil, what would keep them from merely ending retail sales and selling wholesale only to meet the increased demand elsewhere. Dennis Troini ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: josephine sandow <josandow@...> To: paladindennisalexander@... Cc: Herm033050@... Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 19:52:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Fwd: Fw: Fw: For real: how to lower Gas Prices .. Message-ID: <20010509025245.5715.qmail@...> Note: forwarded message attached. Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Click and bid on cool stuff like Dave Matthews Band Tickets & more! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13131	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 5/9/2001
Subject: Fw: [S-Trains] Fw: Fwd: Fw: Fw: For real: how to lower Gas Prices ..

--------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Dennis A. Troini" <paladindennisalexander@...> To: S-trains@yahoogroups.com Cc: S-Scale@onelist.com Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 13:23:54 -0700 Subject: [S-Trains] Fw: Fwd: Fw: Fw: For real: how to lower Gas Prices .. Message-ID: <20010509.132354.-204099.4.paladindennisalexander@...> This and its attachments have been anti-virus scanned. This contains attachment within attachment. Seems like a good idea, But since I REALLY TRUST Big Oil, what would keep them from merely ending retail sales and selling wholesale only to meet the increased demand elsewhere. Dennis Troini ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: josephine sandow <josandow@...> To: paladindennisalexander@... Cc: Herm033050@... Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 19:52:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Fwd: Fw: Fw: For real: how to lower Gas Prices .. Message-ID: <20010509025245.5715.qmail@...> Note: forwarded message attached. Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Click and bid on cool stuff like Dave Matthews Band Tickets & more! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ---------- Return-Path: <josandow@...> Received: from mx6.boston.juno.com (mx6.boston.juno.com [64.136.24.38]) by m19.boston.juno.com with SMTP id AAA7RTNH8AEY5TQJ for <paladindennisalexander@...> (sender <josandow@...>); Tue, 8 May 2001 22:52:46 -0400 (EST) Received: from web13308.mail.yahoo.com (web13308.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.175.44]) by mx6.boston.juno.com with SMTP id AAA7RTNH7AZVDHWJ for <paladindennisalexander@...> (sender <josandow@...>); Tue, 8 May 2001 22:52:45 -0400 (EST) Message-ID: <20010509025245.5715.qmail@...> Received: from [152.163.207.78] by web13308.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 08 May 2001 19:52:45 PDT Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 19:52:45 -0700 (PDT) From: josephine sandow <josandow@...> Subject: Fwd: Fw: Fw: For real: how to lower Gas Prices .. To: paladindennisalexander@... Cc: Herm033050@... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="0-1189641421-989376765=:3166" --0-1189641421-989376765=:3166 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1025202362-989376765=:3166" --0-1025202362-989376765=:3166 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Note: forwarded message attached. --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Click and bid on cool stuff like Dave Matthews Band Tickets & more! --0-1025202362-989376765=:3166 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii <P> <BR> <P>  Note: forwarded message attached. </P><p><hr size=1><b>Do You Yahoo!?</b><br> <a href="http://auctions.yahoo.com/">Yahoo! Auctions</a> - Click and bid on cool stuff like <a href="http://user.auctions.yahoo.com/show/auctions?userID=dave_matthews_band_tickets&u=%3adave_matthews_band_tickets">Dave Matthews Band Tickets</a> & <a href="http://auctions.yahoo.com">more!</a> --0-1025202362-989376765=:3166-- --0-1189641421-989376765=:3166 Content-Type: message/rfc822 X-Apparently-To: josandow@... via web13304.mail.yahoo.com; 06 May 2001 06:04:57 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: <sgleason@...> X-Track: 1: 40 Received: from barry.mail.mindspring.net (207.69.200.25) by mta113.mail.yahoo.com with SMTP; 06 May 2001 06:04:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gleason (pool-63.52.4.88.atln.grid.net [63.52.4.88]) by barry.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA16436; Sun, 6 May 2001 09:04:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <003001c0d62d$8a59fec0$5804343f@gleason> From: "stephen gleason" <sgleason@...> To: "Wild Flowers" <wildflowers66@...>, "WGlea40916" <WGlea40916@...>, "Thomas Waltman" <tomn1qcd@...>, "Suzy Sease" <modstang@...>, "Stephen Corden" <sdjcordenn@...>, <SIN1ROZE2@...>, <Sean.Hunihan@...>, "Sean Hunihan" <hunshouse@...>, <Sandowb@...>, <Rocket8883539457@...>, <Pooh12670@...>, <Phil.DiChiara@...>, "Peter A. Simonson" <peter.simonson@...>, "MRS BARBARA A SANDOW" <UPFV46A@...>, "MMFLUFFER" <MMFLUFFER@...>, "mmfluffer" <mmfluffer@...>, "Michelle Sandow-Pajewski" <ms4j@...>, "MeyerPayne" <meyerpay@...>, <KKell6@...>, "keith eads" <twinkstp@...>, "josephine sandow" <josandow@...>, "Joann Woods" <prizm@...>, "Jennifer Kirol" <jennifergk@...>, <Jban778@...>, "Janet Verrier" <sexychiclet@...>, <GUNNING33@...>, "George Sheehan Jr" <george.f.sheehan.jr@...>, "George F Sheehan Jr." <moderncarpet@...>, <Gary-at-the10car@...>, <Fastererer@...>, "Chase, Travis V" <Travis.Chase@...>, "Amy Hunihan" <tigger0037@...> Subject: Fw: Fw: For real: how to lower Gas Prices .. Date: Sun, 6 May 2001 09:06:57 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0027_01C0D60B.E76341C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Content-Length: 4703 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C0D60B.E76341C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: <WGlea40916@...> To: <CORP.PRINT.INC@...>; <alffie@...>; <BillG7718@...>; <skatesjr@...>; <jennifergk@...>; <JRKULMANN@...>; <NJRACER1@...>; <AlderInc@...>; <Melonhead1967@...>; <betsicool@...>; <CindyS505@...>; <mvidetto@...> Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 4:36 PM Subject: Fwd: Fw: For real: how to lower Gas Prices .. > > ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C0D60B.E76341C0 Content-Type: message/rfc822; name="Fw_ For real_ how to lower Gas Prices ...eml" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Fw_ For real_ how to lower Gas Prices ...eml" Return-Path: <frank.c@...> Received: from rly-zc01.mx.aol.com (rly-zc01.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.1]) by air-zc04.mail.aol.com (v78.34) with ESMTP; Thu, 03 May 2001 15:43:40 -0400 Received: from mx2.snet.net (mx2.snet.net [204.60.3.114]) by rly-zc01.mx.aol.com (v77_r1.36) with ESMTP; Thu, 03 May 2001 15:43:15 -0400 Received: from dadscomputer (sttn-sh10-port219.snet.net [204.60.207.219]) by mx2.snet.net (8.11.1/8.11.1/SNET-mx-1.4/D-1.10/O-1.7) with SMTP id f43Jh1T10018; Thu, 3 May 2001 15:43:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002e01c0d409$559cafa0$0200a8c0@...> Reply-To: "FC" <frank.c@...> From: "FC" <frank.c@...> To: "WJG" <wglea40916@...>, "Rose Mandelbaum" <RBMandelbaum@...>, "Phil Casavant" <casavpa@...>, "MB Stewart" <Mbs83@...>, "Jim Stewart" <jimst56@...>, "Alan Gosselin" <alan.gosselin@...> Subject: Fw: For real: how to lower Gas Prices .. Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 15:43:30 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 > This may be worth a try.... > > -----Original Message----- > > > THE FOLLOWING WAS SENT BY AN ECONOMIST WITHIN THE FUEL INDUSTRY. > ANOTHER ECONOMICS PROFESSOR AT CAL REITERATED THE SAME LAST WEEK. > > I THINK IT IS WORTH TRYING. > > I got this from a reliable source & the website listed is legit. > We heard today from a man who is very savvy about the economy, > namely, Clark Howard, and he says that the gas prices are going > to start going up again and will be high this summer-$2.00 and up. > We need to do whatever we can, and do it NOW!!!! > > Gasoline Prices > This makes more sense than the don't buy gas on a certain day > routine that was going around last year re: Gasoline Prices. > Whoever started this has a good point. By now, you're probably > thinking gasoline priced at about $1.49 is cheap. Me too, as it > is now $1.58 for regular unleaded! > > Now that the oil companies and the OPEC nations have conditioned > us to think that the cost of a gallon of gas is CHEAP at less than > $1.50, we need to try an aggressive response. With the price of > gasoline going up more each day, we consumers need to take ACTION! > The only way we are going to see the price of gas come down is if > we don't buy it. But, (as the gas companies know full well, and are > counting on), that's not really a practical option since we all > have come to rely on our cars. But we CAN have an impact on gas > prices if we all act together. > > Here's the idea: For the rest of this year, don't purchase > gasoline from the two biggest companies (which now are one), > namely EXXON and MOBIL. You see, if they are not selling, they > should be inclined, (i.e., "forced"), to reduce their prices. > And, because of their size, and hence market share, if they reduce > their prices the other companies will too. > (They would HAVE no choice!). Isn't that a "juicy" prospect? But > to have an impact, we need to reach literally millions of users. > But it's do-able! > > I am sending this note to 42 people. If each of you send it to at > least 10 more...and those 10 send it to at least 10 more and so > on, by the time the message reaches the sixth reiteration, we > will have reached over one million consumers. Acting together we > can make a difference. > If this makes sense to you, please pass this message on, or one > you compose, to at least 10 more E-mail addresses. > PLEASE HOLD OUT UNTIL THEY LOWER THEIR PRICES TO BELOW $1.28 - > $1.29 AND KEEP THEM DOWN. THIS CAN REALLY WORK! > > If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention! > > ------=_NextPart_000_0027_01C0D60B.E76341C0-- --0-1189641421-989376765=:3166-- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13132	From: Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S.	Date: 5/9/2001
Subject: Back in Stock at B.T.S.

Howdy Friends Some S Scale stuff is back in stock: Old Pullman #6 Switches - http://www.btsrr.com/btsopm01.htm Trackside Details - http://www.btsrr.com/btstsd01.htm B.T.S. Loco Details - Steam Lines, Grab Irons, & Lift Rings are back! http://www.btsrr.com/btsdet01.htm --------- And soon to be gone forever! Act now or forever hold your peace: Orbisonia Station - two 1955 versions - http://www.btsrr.com/bts7127.htm Coon Gap Sawmill - Couple left - http://www.btsrr.com/btsmil01.htm --------- See ya at the Spring S Spree next week! Take care, Bill -- ============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-643-1105 FAX: 813-681-7326 B.T.S. http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13133	From: John Foley	Date: 5/9/2001
Subject: Electric City Trolley Museum

NASG Convention update. The Trolley Museum now has their trolleys rolling. The fare for the ride is $3.50 Adults 18 & up $2.50 for kids You would pay fare at museum Your Entrance fee into museum is included with your registration Hours 8:30 AM - 5:30 PM Wednesday-Sunday The schedule is as follows. Departs Arrives back 9:30 10:30 10:45 11:45 12:00 1:00 1:30 2:30 2:30 3:30 3:30 4:30 65 Passengers per trip

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13134	From: softmoods@vcn.com	Date: 5/9/2001
Subject: July Train Show/Swap Meet

Hi All, Please pass the Notice below on to other E-Mail Lists: Sorry for the possible double posts. Sherman Hill Model Railroad Club will be hosting a Model Railroad Show / Swap meet and Afternoon of Railfanning, in Cheyenne, Wyoming. Details of show are below: Date: 14 July 01 Saturday Time: 9:00am - 12:00am Railfanning: Follows Train Show / Swap Meet and Lunch or after lunch 1:30pm Tour the Former Union Pacific Depot and/or The Union Pacific Steam Shops . Limited Number to go ($ 5.00 Club Donation) (NOTE: First Come, First Serve on UP Steam Shop Tour) Location: 121 w 15th st - Downtown Cheyenne - Former Union Pacific Depot Admission: Adults . . . $ 3.50 Children . . $ 1.50 Families . . $ 7.00 Contact: Robert Sherwood 2837 Olive Dr Cheyenne, Wy. 82001-5736 Vendors: Contact For Booth / Table Information I'm looking forward to seeing and visiting with all of you in july. Sincerely, Robert Sherwood, President Sherman Hill Model Railroad Club, Cheyenne, Wyoming Robert Sherwood, Cheyenne, Wyoming

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13135	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 5/9/2001
Subject: Strasburg, PA

We went there this past weekend and did the rounds including stay over at the Red Caboose Motel. The best part IMHO still is riding the train. However, the Railroad Museum of PA, Choo-choo Barn, TCA museum, and even buggy ride were great fun too. Enough for now as I sit here waiting for them to fix the broken window on this 757 and try to forget about how late we already are. Have fun with your trains. Dave -------------------------- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld (www.BlackBerry.net) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13136	From: Bill Horzempa	Date: 5/9/2001
Subject: Disney Monorail & accessories How to order by phone

In addition to mailing Disney you can call their Merchandise Mail Order Center at 407-363-6200 to order the Disney Monorail and accessories. They also have an Email address WDW.mail.order@... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13137	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 5/9/2001
Subject: GG-1

I forgot to mention that at the museum at Strasburg they let you climb some steps and take a look into the beautiful late 48XX GG-1 they keepinside the museum. Wow, talk about cramped quarters. Not nearly the room in most diesel cabs. Made some thing like a Pennsy Centipede look like a palace. If you ever were the engineer on a GG-1, you better have loved that beast because you practically became part of it when it ran. -------------------------- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld (www.BlackBerry.net) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13138	From: William Porter	Date: 5/9/2001
Subject: Re: Disney Monorail

The trains are not to scale. The cross section - height and width is pretty close to S. The length is far shorter than scale. If you like the look, they will add a nice touch. The mechanisms are not robust. They are battery operated and made entirely of plastic. I suspect the motors, gears or traction wheels would wear out after 8 to 10 sets of batteries. Although I have not tested a set to destruction, I have observed several sets on display in the shops of Walt Disney World, I have spoken with cast members (that's retail clerks to the rest of us) and I have looked inside as part of my research. These items are not as durable as most model trains in the smaller scales and they are nothing like Flyer, AM or SHS. I have three sets, but I don't run them much. a friend of mine has a set running as part of his Lionel layout. They do have a nice sound effect system and some light built in. The accessory hotel - a selectively compressed Contemporary Hotel - is very nice and tells a reasonable story. That is, it looks enough like the real thing to be credible, if not quite to scale. The Spaceship Earth accessory is no where near scale. It is fun, but not really a model. The real SSE is about 162 feet high. that would be a sphere nearly 31 inches tall in S. The model is about a foot tall - which would make it about right for N scale. Actually, since the sphere is mounted considerable above the ground (in the toy, not in the Park) the actual diameter is too small for Z. I have one of each in the (Yes, there is a 'Sucker' on my forehead) limited edition silver plastic. I'm glad I own them, but, I don't plan to place them on my layout. Good Luck, Bill Porter ----- Original Message ----- From: Marty.Thorin <Thorin.Marty@...> To: 'S-Trains (E-mail) <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 9:23 AM Subject: [S-Trains] Re: Disney Monorail > What scale is it? > > Thorin > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13139	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 5/9/2001
Subject: Re: GG-1

David is most correct about the lack of space in the GG-1's. The loco in question is "Blackjack" 4935. The speedometer in the cab(s) reads to 100 MPH and they were known to be pegged regularly. Actually there were no creature comforts other than the padded seat and the window that opened (and an electric heater). I have the privilege of being one of several docents on that particular engine. 4800 "Old Rivets" is on display in the yard, but not accessible. Jim Lyle [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13140	From: johnbraker@webtv.net	Date: 5/9/2001
Subject: nynh&h colors?

gentlemen, i am in search of color schemes for a nynh@hboxcar-the only pictures i have are sepia toned(1912)and mybest guess is basic black any thoughts? also, a nh cabose-all black/or +w? any help greatly appreciated. , thanks, j.cbraker

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13141	From: race944t@sitestar.net	Date: 5/9/2001
Subject: Atlanta

Is anyone from the Atlanta area. I'm going to a train show in Macon this weekend (5-12-01) and am interested in purchasing AF for my 9 year old son. I also just enjoy meeting other Flyer "S" folks.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13142	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 5/9/2001
Subject: Re: nynh&h colors?

NYNH&H has an Historical group. I am sorry I do not know there current address, but I beleive their publication was called "The Shoreliner". I remember it as being very accurate and well produced as for the PRR and NKP Societies. Good Luck. Dennis On Wed, 9 May 2001 21:26:47 -0400 (EDT) johnbraker@... writes: > gentlemen, > i am in search of color schemes for a nynh@hboxcar-the only pictures > i > have are sepia toned(1912)and mybest guess is basic black any > thoughts? > also, a nh cabose-all black/or +w? any help greatly appreciated. > > > , thanks, > j.cbraker > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13143	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 5/9/2001
Subject: Re: GG-1

When it got real exciting is when the main transformer would erupt!. Hot oil with PCBs everywhere and no place to hide at 90+ mile an hour! Tom D. ----- Original Message ----- From: <david_horn@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 7:47 PM Subject: [S-Trains] GG-1 > I forgot to mention that at the museum at Strasburg they let you climb some > steps and take a look into the beautiful late 48XX GG-1 they keepinside the > museum. Wow, talk about cramped quarters. Not nearly the room in most > diesel cabs. Made some thing like a Pennsy Centipede look like a palace. > If you ever were the engineer on a GG-1, you better have loved that beast > because you practically became part of it when it ran. > -------------------------- > Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld (www.BlackBerry.net) > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13144	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 5/9/2001
Subject: Sam the Semaphore 758

I just purchased a 758 Sam the Semaphore Man, which seems to work fine except I have no clue how to hook it up. The book I have (1954?) shows the 758A with a 2 button controller and 707 track trip. Mine seems to be the one button variety with no track trip wire. Am I missing something or how does the hookup work. There are 4 wires, red, green black and yellow. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Tom _---_---_---______--__--___+-----+||] [||####### B & O #####|______||_____ || pjpennington@... __| [][] |__ || ||_______________________/ _| B&O |___\_|| | ||| | | | | | | / | 4212 | # ||| | []|=|==================o=====o==================|=|[] /|-||(0)|=|(0)|=|(O) |_________| (0)|=|(0)|=|(O)||-|\ ======================================================== [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13145	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 5/9/2001
Subject: Sam the Sem 758

Wiring: black wire to transformer base post, red wire to pushbutton connected to base post, yellow wire to transformer fixed voltage post, green wire to insulated rail segment in base post rail. Wiring diagrams for both Sams on p. 37 of the Jan/Feb'98 S Gaugian. Tom jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13146	From: David	Date: 5/10/2001
Subject: New Gabe

Thankfully, my new MTH Gabe arrived yesterday without damage or incident. It is a beauty too. A nice feature of these new accessories is that they have a built in plug assembly so you can disconnect the button and run the wire under the layout table top without cutting the cord. Other than that if they didn't put MTH on the button and decal, you'd never know it wasn't of New Haven vintage.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13147	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 5/10/2001
Subject: Long Lost Trains

Some of you may get a chuckle out of this post: I'm the guy that didn't receive the American Models trains. Guess what? I ordered a door on March 22nd and it isn't in either. The lumber company told me today that it was shipped to their Winchester, VA store by mistake. Also, I can't find the lady who cuts my hair anymore. I think the spirit in charge of lost items has a pin stuck in my doll. Peter Ervin

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13148	From: Al	Date: 5/10/2001
Subject: Missing S-Trains Person

Does anyone know Chuck Dietrich? I have been trying to reply to his emails from 6 months ago and get no replies. He was selling "S" Scale Bleachers & Circus Wagons and told me he had a fellow who was making circus big tops and smaller tents in circus colors. His email address was: Dietrich <circus@...> I would appreciate any help I can get regarding this matter. Thanks in advance. Al Rawdon

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13149	From: Douglass Allen	Date: 5/10/2001
Subject: Re: Disney monorail train

Disney monorail trainThey do make this hard to find if you're not at the counter at Wally World. I searched the web site too, and the disney store just does not carry it either on or off net. The Disney World mail order is apparently a separate corporate entity, and they don't advertise. One must call them to order what you want at 407-363-6200. I do recommend the set for S-scalers. Even fine scale modelers wouldn't be disappointed in it. ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard J. Nicholls To: Douglass Allen Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 1:21 PM Subject: Disney monorail train The train can be ordered from Disney world by mail order, which is what I did. You don't have to make a trip to Florida to get it. Call the nearest Disney store for the address. Odd that the Disney stores don't carry it. ... Hi Doug, I've found three pictures of the monorail at: http://www.bigbrian-nc.com/monomodelcolage.jpg BUT ... I live about 100 miles from the nearest Disney story and was hoping to buy one via the internet. Unfortunately I can't find a web site to order the darn thing! ... Disney.com (even their store) doesn't have it listed. Do you have the address you used? Thanks. Regards, Richard [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13150	From: Al	Date: 5/10/2001
Subject: Ted Larsen

Does any know if Ted Larson ever got his proposed web page listing of S (1:64th) scale articles. He was going to have articles regarding S gauge and S scale engines and rolling stock. He mentioned that he would appreciate articles or book references regarding this project. Just wondering if anything has been done about this proposed project. Al Ted Larson <mhrreast@...>

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13151	From: pieter_roos@yahoo.com	Date: 5/10/2001
Subject: Re: nynh&h colors?

John; Big topic, depending on the period. Up to the McGinnis era (1950s) the answer would be some form of boxcar red with white lettering. After that, a variety of paint schemes came into use. The NH Historical society (NHRHTA) has a web site at > http://www.nhrhta.org/ <. For a quick view of other paint info, go to Microscale's site > http://www.microscale.com/ < and search for all sets on the New Haven. Pieter --- In S-Trains@y..., johnbraker@w... wrote: > gentlemen, > i am in search of color schemes for a nynh@hboxcar-the only pictures i > have are sepia toned(1912)and mybest guess is basic black any thoughts? > also, a nh cabose-all black/or +w? any help greatly appreciated. > > > , thanks, > j.cbraker

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13152	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 5/10/2001
Subject: AM Budds

Got my set of hirail chrome PRR Budd cars today. They are awesome! Thanks American Models! -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13153	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 5/10/2001
Subject: NASG Survey Response Form

Please NASG members ONLY may use this form. 1. Interest: 2. Layout: 3. Era: 4. Type layout: 5. Favorite RRs: Wish List: 6. Steam loco: 7. Diesel: 8. Electric: 9. Freight Car: 10. Passenger car: 11. Plastic structure: 12. Operating accessory: 13. Track item: 14. Other: 15. Attended NASG Convention: 16. Attended any other S: 17. What can NASG do? 18. What see in Dispatch? 19. On line, email address? 20. S egroup: 21. S club: 22. Modular layout: 23. Modular layout is: 24. Willing to volunteer? NASG number

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13154	From: John Foley	Date: 5/10/2001
Subject: NMRA Bulletin

Hi Folks To those who get the NMRA Bulletin check out page 53 in the May Issue. Our Steamtown convention ad is there Thanks for your help Jeff Madden. John Foley

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13155	From: Michael Greene	Date: 5/10/2001
Subject: NASG History Series

For those interested in the early days of S and of the NASG, all five parts of the "The NASG Story" by Bob Jackson, as published in past issues of the NASG DISPATCH, are now on-line for your reading pleasure. Look for the in the "Library" on the NASG web site - http://www.nasg.org Enjoy! Michael Greene

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13156	From: John Foley	Date: 5/10/2001
Subject: Nice S Layout

Folks Maybe you have seen this website, I haven't. It is a AF layout with some scale aspects. Check it out at http://hometown.aol.com/kingmidg1/AMERICANFLYERWEBPAGE.html John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13157	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 5/10/2001
Subject: TRAINS 4 SALE

Hi befor I list these on E-bay anyone interested in thesze items contact me of list....They are brand new in the box First Conrail GP-7 # 48013 W/cab $215. Shipping included Second GM GP-7 #48009 $190.00 shipping included third a Bordens #24575 E+ no box PikeMaster $65.00 Shipping Inc the next two I'll take reas offers ...9707 rail box E+ 9702 B&O E+ they both are Like New but no boxes figure the shipping to be included in your offers....Thank You Mike S. Also at this time thank you to all that responded to the 336 questions It helped me to get my $ back from the seller.....He is an "L" guy that says he knows nothing about flyer....his E-bay name is " santafe" He did refund my $ after quite a battle....He sees nothing wrong in changing a 332 to a 336and saying that it was the engine that was a 336 even though the tender had link couplers . When this was pointed out his reply was that he was selling the 336 engine not the tender....I guess that in "L" land they sell the tenders seperate from the engine....Correct me if I'm wrong but in Flyer land the # indicaters the engine & tender.....He will be selling aq lot for an "estate"{ my only thing is that care and a lot of questions IMHO should be used.....Mike S

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13158	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 5/10/2001
Subject: E-mail address

Hi I need Joe's train shop E-mail address The one that repairs Trains for kids that need toys ( He'll know what I mean).....Mike S

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13159	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 5/10/2001
Subject: Joes Address

Thank You Guys I now Have Joe's Address....Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13160	From: John Foley	Date: 5/10/2001
Subject: New Viris

Hi Folks There's another virus out. It's Titled JHDAJKAJ Don't open it. JOHN

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13161	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/10/2001
Subject: One diff between L and AF: was: TRAINS 4 SALE

Yep, in L land the tenders are a separate item, although the guides do show what tenders normally came w/an engine. But, L could upgrade w/ a whistling tender, or downgrade w/a non-whistling tender, depending on market conditions and production. AF steamers always came with the tender, even in the late period when the tenders were in a separate box, and you really could "mix-n-match" 'em. Marx is the same way, tenders separate. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13162	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/10/2001
Subject: my gabe is no longer lost!

HI all, Well theUPS site says my Gabe is now in transit from Sacramento to Chico, should arrive on my doorstep tomorrow. Now do I leave a signed form, and risk it sitting on the front porch, or wait until Monday when I MIGHT be home? Hmmm. S' David D. PS Apparently it never got scanned being put into the truck from NC to CA, but arrived in SF area this morning.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13163	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 5/10/2001
Subject: Re: my gabe is no longer lost!

Well, it doesn't look like mine got lost - yet! Arrived in Denver yesterday, due to arrive at my house tomorrow. They sure did make a bunch of stops with it though. Roger Petrella Franktown, CO David Dewey wrote: > HI all, > Well theUPS site says my Gabe is now in transit from Sacramento to > Chico, should arrive on my doorstep tomorrow. Now do I leave a signed form, > and risk it sitting on the front porch, or wait until Monday when I MIGHT be > home? Hmmm. > S' > David D. > PS Apparently it never got scanned being put into the truck from NC to CA, > but arrived in SF area this morning. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13164	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 5/11/2001
Subject: test

test

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13165	From: colin_olsen@hotmail.com	Date: 5/11/2001
Subject: AF Engine

What would be wrong with this engine when power is applied to the brush holders (no tender connected) and the head light lights up, but the armature only moves to position communtators and nothing else? Wiring is good, brushes are good and make good contact. Is there a problem with the windings? Any suggestions are appreciated. Thanks.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13166	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 5/11/2001
Subject: Re: AF Engine

You have to have power on the brushes and the field winding for the motor to run! I hope this helps... Chuck colin_olsen@... wrote: > What would be wrong with this engine when power is applied to the > brush holders (no tender connected) and the head light lights up, but > the armature only moves to position communtators and nothing else?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13167	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 5/11/2001
Subject: Re: AF Engine

What Chuck H. means is that the series wound motor needs one power lead applied to a brush, the other to the field winding. There needs to be a wire connecting the other field lead to the othert armature lead. If reverse unit is in the tender be sure that the tender leads are discnnected. Chuck Harrington wrote: > > You have to have power on the brushes and the field winding for the motor to run! > I hope this helps... > > Chuck > > colin_olsen@... wrote: > > > What would be wrong with this engine when power is applied to the > > brush holders (no tender connected) and the head light lights up, but > > the armature only moves to position communtators and nothing else? > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13168	From: myflyertrains@cfl.rr.com	Date: 5/11/2001
Subject: You're invited!

Hello! You have been invited by myflyertrains to join the Listed Yahoo! Club named "All Aboard Sets". To become a member of this club, just go to the Web address below: http://edit.clubs.yahoo.com/config/sjg?.k=2FD3afc21f3OlIbr myflyertrains also sent you a personal message: "You are invited to join the new Yahoo Club for discussing ALL ABOARD SETS!" You need to go to the address above to join, but you can first take a look by going to: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/allaboardsets You can learn more about myflyertrains by looking at the Yahoo! Public Profile: http://profiles.yahoo.com/myflyertrains Note: This invitation will expire after 7 days, or after being used. A Yahoo! Club is a great way to bring friends, family or anyone you know together using the latest in Web technologies. Club members are able to take advantage of a club's private chat room, message boards and other features. You can also create your own free club focused on any interest, such as hobbies, families and industry associations. Clubs are either listed or unlisted. Listed clubs are available to the public while unlisted clubs are available exclusively to those who receive invitations. If you have no interest in joining this club, there is no need for you to do anything. You will not be enrolled as a member. Thanks, The Yahoo! Clubs team http://clubs.yahoo.com/ P.S. If you need some help on getting started, go to: http://help.yahoo.com/help/clubs/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13169	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 5/11/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, May 13, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13170	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 5/11/2001
Subject: RRMPA

The RailRoad Museum of Pennsylvania (RRMPA) is hosting "PENNSY DAYS" on June 2 & 3 and "MA & PA DAY" on June 16. RRMPA is of course in Strasburg PA on PA Rt 741 East of Strasburg, just minutes from the National Toy Train Museum (NTTM). Jim Lyle [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13171	From: Ted R Larson	Date: 5/11/2001
Subject: Fw: Fw: Lament

--------- Forwarded message ---------- A father and his young son were down at the depot watching the trains roll through. The boy turned to his father and said, "Dad, I want to grow up and be a train engineer!" The Father looked down at him and said, "Son, you can't do both."

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13172	From: Bill Lane	Date: 5/11/2001
Subject: Budd cars

Alrighty Kids, I have sandbagged it longed enough. In the early 80's I wanted a new car. In the mid 80's I wanted a Bud. Now it is 2001 and I want new BUDD cars. FULL length as Budd intended them to be. I want to mix up the consists with my brass cars and some Congo cars. The man who can bring us the FULL length Budd cars is Don Thompson. Stand up and be COUNTED. robin@... Don't provoke me! I will get 3 talking bullfrogs! Show case Liiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnne! Thanks Bill

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13173	From: wayne broadhead	Date: 5/11/2001
Subject: Gabe/operation

I received my MTH Gabe today! Nice reproduction...got a question though. Having never owned a real Gabe, or knowing anyone who does....how did the real one work? The MTH Gabe operates such: you push the green button and Gabe climbs a step, repeat the process until Gabe arrives at the top of the latter. When Gabe gets to the top guess what happens...NOTHING! The lights do not turn on...nothing happens he just hangs there. You can push the other large button, a red button on the side, it simply turns the lights on for as long as yer tired finger holds it on. The center small button lets Gabe slide down the latter properly and smoothly. What am I missing here? I thought that Gabe climbed the latter and upon reaching the top the lights came on automatically! Then you push another button and he slides down and the lights go off. It seems odd to me, that when he gets to the top NOTHING HAPPENS! WAYNE

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13174	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/11/2001
Subject: Re: Gabe/operation & Mine's here!!!

Wayne, The repo works just like the original, except I think the red light button is a bit different. If you twist the button clockwise, it will stay down and keep the lights on. Twist it counterclockwise to turn them off. Seems to be a ramp underneath on the button, I think the AF ones had a bayonett, but same results! I just got mine too, came in today's UPS, just like they promised AMAZING. Works very neat. Wish the house weren't so well fastened down, I'd like to look inside some, but will refrain for now, it's just too neat! The only thing that could have been better, is if Mikey had upgraded Gabe to automatically turn on the lights when he got to the top. Then you could run him up again to turn them off. I think the small fry and big kids are going to love this one!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13175	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 5/11/2001
Subject: MTH Saw Mill, #600 Crossing Gate, #787 Log Loader

I was looking thru the MTH web site (http://www.mth-railking.com/products/index.htm) and noticed a saw mill, crossing gate and log loader that look all the world like AF originals. Does anyone know if these are AF reproductions like Gabe and the Coal loader, or just O scale reproductions of a good design??? _---_---_---______--__--___+-----+||] [||####### B & O #####|______||_____ || pjpennington@... __| [][] |__ || ||_______________________/ _| B&O |___\_|| | ||| | | | | | | / | 4212 | # ||| | []|=|==================o=====o==================|=|[] /|-||(0)|=|(0)|=|(O) |_________| (0)|=|(0)|=|(O)||-|\ ======================================================== [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13176	From: David	Date: 5/12/2001
Subject: Re: Gabe/operation

I have an orignal Gabe, and the MTH one operates exactly like the original. Gabe never turned the lights on automatically in spite of what Greenberg said in their hardcover collectors edition. That would have been a neat feature though using a small switch or similar device. To get the lights to stay on all the time, push and turn the red button to the right. The button will catch and the light will stay on. To shut them off turn the red button counter clockwise.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13177	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 5/12/2001
Subject: Re: Gabe/operation & Mine's here!!!

Got my Gabe yesterday also. Grabbed an 8B transformer I use for testing locos and set the works up on the kitchen counter. Gabe really got a workout! My 3 yr. old grandson just loved it. Funny, I thought the same thing as Dave, "Let's take the house off an look inside". I think I will wait a while, but the house certainly will come off. I also think I may try the idea someone else mentioned about putting a microswitch at the top of the ladder so the lights turn on when Gabe gets to the top. Roger Petrella Franktown, CO David Dewey wrote: > Wayne, > The repo works just like the original, except I think the red light > button is a bit different. If you twist the button clockwise, it will stay > down and keep the lights on. Twist it counterclockwise to turn them off. > Seems to be a ramp underneath on the button, I think the AF ones had a > bayonett, but same results! > I just got mine too, came in today's UPS, just like they promised > AMAZING. > Works very neat. Wish the house weren't so well fastened down, I'd like > to look inside some, but will refrain for now, it's just too neat! The only > thing that could have been better, is if Mikey had upgraded Gabe to > automatically turn on the lights when he got to the top. Then you could run > him up again to turn them off. > I think the small fry and big kids are going to love this one! > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13178	From: wayne broadhead	Date: 5/12/2001
Subject: Re: Gabe/operation & Mine's here!!!

Thanks David for the explanation. I guess we are destined to have Gabe get to the top of the latter and wait for a little help from someone to turn the lights on. Thanks again, Wayne Broadhead David Dewey wrote: > > Wayne, > The repo works just like the original, except I think the red light > button is a bit different. If you twist the button clockwise, it will stay > down and keep the lights on. Twist it counterclockwise to turn them off. > Seems to be a ramp underneath on the button, I think the AF ones had a > bayonett, but same results! > I just got mine too, came in today's UPS, just like they promised > AMAZING. > Works very neat. Wish the house weren't so well fastened down, I'd like > to look inside some, but will refrain for now, it's just too neat! The only > thing that could have been better, is if Mikey had upgraded Gabe to > automatically turn on the lights when he got to the top. Then you could run > him up again to turn them off. > I think the small fry and big kids are going to love this one!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13179	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/12/2001
Subject: Re: Gabe/operation & Mine's here!!!

Roger, Hmm, I wasn't going to mention how I tested mine, but yep, on the kitchen table with a 1-1/2! --not even turned up all the way either. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13180	From: wayne broadhead	Date: 5/12/2001
Subject: Re: Gabe/operation & Mine's here!!!

...when you figure out the microswitch installation....let me know. Great idea. Wayne "Roger V. Petrella Jr." wrote: > > Got my Gabe yesterday also. Grabbed an 8B transformer I use for testing locos > and set the works up on the kitchen counter. Gabe really got a workout! My 3 > yr. old grandson just loved it. Funny, I thought the same thing as Dave, "Let's > take the house off an look inside". I think I will wait a while, but the house > certainly will come off. I also think I may try the idea someone else mentioned > about putting a microswitch at the top of the ladder so the lights turn on when > Gabe gets to the top. > > Roger Petrella > Franktown, CO > > David Dewey wrote: > > > Wayne, > > The repo works just like the original, except I think the red light > > button is a bit different. If you twist the button clockwise, it will stay > > down and keep the lights on. Twist it counterclockwise to turn them off. > > Seems to be a ramp underneath on the button, I think the AF ones had a > > bayonett, but same results! > > I just got mine too, came in today's UPS, just like they promised > > AMAZING. > > Works very neat. Wish the house weren't so well fastened down, I'd like > > to look inside some, but will refrain for now, it's just too neat! The only > > thing that could have been better, is if Mikey had upgraded Gabe to > > automatically turn on the lights when he got to the top. Then you could run > > him up again to turn them off. > > I think the small fry and big kids are going to love this one! > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13181	From: Eugene Steffan	Date: 5/12/2001
Subject: Re: Gabe/operation

You need to rotate the liht nkob to keep the ligjts on. This is similar to the original. Gene wayne broadhead wrote: > I received my MTH Gabe today! Nice reproduction...got a question > though. Having never owned a real Gabe, or knowing anyone who > does....how did the real one work? The MTH Gabe operates such: you > push the green button and Gabe climbs a step, repeat the process until > Gabe arrives at the top of the latter. When Gabe gets to the top guess > what happens...NOTHING! The lights do not turn on...nothing happens he > just hangs there. You can push the other large button, a red button on > the side, it simply turns the lights on for as long as yer tired finger > holds it on. > > The center small button lets Gabe slide down the latter properly and > smoothly. What am I missing here? I thought that Gabe climbed the > latter and upon reaching the top the lights came on automatically! > Then you push another button and he slides down and the lights go off. > > It seems odd to me, that when he gets to the top NOTHING HAPPENS! > > WAYNE > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13182	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 5/12/2001
Subject: Re: Gabe/operation & Mine's here!!!

In a message dated 5/12/01 12:10:34 AM, djdewey@... writes: << The repo works just like the original, except I think the red light button is a bit different. If you twist the button clockwise, it will stay down and keep the lights on. Twist it counterclockwise to turn them off. Seems to be a ramp underneath on the button, I think the AF ones had a bayonet, but same results! >> My original does have the bayonet, as you have correctly described. The operation of the MTH Gabe that I had the opportunity to play with at York is virtually identical to the original's. << The only thing that could have been better, is if Mikey had upgraded Gabe to automatically turn on the lights when he got to the top. Then you could run him up again to turn them off. I think the small fry and big kids are going to love this one! >> The Lionel reissue to slated to have the automatic turn on feature as an improvement. Visitors have loved the Gabe on my layout for years -- it's great that the repros and reissues at affordable prices are now being made. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13183	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 5/12/2001
Subject: Re: MTH Saw Mill, #600 Crossing Gate, #787 Log Loader

In a message dated 5/12/01 3:04:55 AM, pjpennington@... writes: << I was looking thru the MTH web site (http://www.mthrailking.com/products/index.htm) and noticed a saw mill, crossing gate and log loader that look all the world like AF originals. Does anyone know if these are AF reproductions like Gabe and the Coal loader, or just O scale reproductions of a good design??? >> These MTH accessories are intended to be close copies of the originals. Of course, the pictures in the catalogues (both L's and MTH) are of originals. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13184	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 5/12/2001
Subject: Re: MTH Saw Mill, #600 Crossing Gate, #787 Log Loader

So these are S gauge accessories? At 11:05 AM 5/12/01 -0400, you wrote: >In a message dated 5/12/01 3:04:55 AM, pjpennington@... writes: > ><< I was looking thru the MTH web site >(http://www.mthrailking.com/products/index.htm) and noticed a saw mill, >crossing gate and log loader that look all the world like AF originals. Does >anyone know if these are AF reproductions like Gabe and the Coal loader, or >just O scale >reproductions of a good design??? >> > >These MTH accessories are intended to be close copies of the originals. Of >course, the pictures in the catalogues (both L's and MTH) are of originals. > >RB _---_---_---______--__--___+-----+||] [||####### B & O #####|______||_____ || pjpennington@... __| [][] |__ || ||_______________________/ _| B&O |___\_|| | ||| | | | | | | / | 4212 | # ||| | []|=|==================o=====o==================|=|[] /|-||(0)|=|(0)|=|(O) |_________| (0)|=|(0)|=|(O)||-|\ ======================================================== [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13185	From: busyboy	Date: 5/12/2001
Subject: American Models New Budd Passenger Cars

Go here: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1144185850 and dig the close up pictures of: American Models New Budd Passenger Cars Item #1144185850 Yes, they're on e-Bay. Chris Z.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13186	From: Scott Kubel	Date: 5/12/2001
Subject: AF 293

Hi I have an AF 293 that the coupler on the tender keeps popping open. I am only hauling a caboose, a boxcar and a gondola. This happens when I cross over switches or go around curves. I replaced the coupler and I am still having the same problem. Is this endemic to the AF 293 or does anyone have some suggestions to keep this from happening? I am new to S-Guage although I have run O-Guage for years. Thanks for the help Scott Kubel TCA 99-48731

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13187	From: Walt Danylak	Date: 5/12/2001
Subject: Re: AF 293

--- In S-Trains@y..., "Scott Kubel" <sckubel@m...> wrote: Hi I have an AF 293 that the coupler on the tender keeps popping open. I am only hauling a caboose, a boxcar and a gondola. This happens when I cross over switches or go around curves. I replaced the coupler and I am still having the same problem. Is this endemic to the AF 293 or does anyone have some suggestions to keep this from happening? I am new to S-Guage although I have run O-Guage for years. Thanks for the help Scott Kubel TCA 99-48731 Scott, It sounds like the yolk holding the coupler is bent down a little too far. Try bending the yolk up a kittle and see if this doesn't solve your problem. Walt

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13188	From: Dick Kuepper	Date: 5/12/2001
Subject: Re: AF 293

Walt - How much is a kittle? :-) Dick

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13189	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/12/2001
Subject: Re: AF 293

Scott, Check your coupler height, with the coupler closed you should be able to slip a 1/16" piece of paper under the weight (Like run a business card on top of your rails under the coupler, should clear). Bend the coupler mount to fix. You can also bend the truck side mounts too, I covered this in one of my Dispatch articles a few issues ago. It does require care! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13190	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/12/2001
Subject: Flyer Chat Sunday

HI All, Have a great time, I will probably be on the road from Dunsmuir to home! Hope to be around the next weekend, depends on when the BBQ is over. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13191	From: Rick Evans	Date: 5/12/2001
Subject: Fwd: F-3 Warbonnet on the highway

I found the following over at "toytrains",...thought it was interesting, sorry if it has been posted here before. Rick. **(((Check out the following website, particularly the Chronicle & Pictures sections.)))*** http://www.mytrain.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13192	From: busyboy	Date: 5/12/2001
Subject: lotsa e-mail

Shiffy: Empty your mailbox at Goldens2@... . Anything mailed to you is returned as "account limit exceeded". Chris Z.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13193	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 5/12/2001
Subject: MRC 0-27

Here's a question from a reader that I can't answer. Can anyone on this list help? Send a copy of your email direct to him, because I don't know if he is on list. Thanks. Tom Jarcho From: "muskie97" <muskie97@...> Hello great articles learned alot. Have a problem in this months issue there is an article about running the Great old American flyer on the new transformers I have the new MRC 027 and like the guy wrote my 336 & 360 364 and my 21910-1 hums bad. I know its because of the transformer but it works great. I hope with the new things on the market this can be changed I don't just want to disconnected the speaker in the b unit. What do you suggest PLEASE HELP LET ME KNOW WHAT TO DO THANKS SCOTT

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13194	From: M.McConnell	Date: 5/12/2001
Subject: Motor repair kit images

I just received my order from Steve Blackburn of his new Flyer motor repair kit, and am quite impressed with quality of the machining in the kit. I know a picture is worth a thousand words - so I've uploaded two images to the files section. The first is a picture of the contents of the package; can motor, bracket, screws, wire, rectifier and instructions - everything you need. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/New%20Stuff/motorkit1.JPG The thing that impressed me was the inclusion of the worm shaft fastened to the can motor - which precludes the normal procedure of destroying an old flyer motor just to use the shaft. The second picture is a close-up of the motor/bracket assy. (sorry for the shallow depth-of-field, it's the best my camera can do.) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/New%20Stuff/motorkit2.JPG I think the kit is worth the price. . .nice job Steve. Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13195	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 5/13/2001
Subject: I'm Back!

After getting back from our Belize vacation ( http://www.homestead.com/PYorke/files/ ) and all that that involves, I finally got around to updating my site. I have had numerous requests, so please visit the site and make sure I fixed/changed/added the link that you requested. All the changes I made were on the Links page http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/links/links.htm. I am back to my normal (not quite so overwhelmed ) busy self so if you have any requests please feel free to fire away. See you all at Sunday Chat! ===== Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com Photography - Computers - Trains __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13196	From: busyboy	Date: 5/13/2001
Subject: The Yolk's on Me

Walt's advice: >Try bending the yolk up a kittle and see if this doesn't solve your problem. Gee Walt, I tried this, but I ended up with egg all over the cat. Big, big :~) Chris Z.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13197	From: Jim Carnes	Date: 5/13/2001
Subject: Delivery date for AF accessories

Does anyone have any information on the latest anticipated delivery dates for the AF Sawmill, Gabe, and Coaler?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13198	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 5/13/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, May 13, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13199	From: Tom Rolfsmeyer	Date: 5/13/2001
Subject: Won't be at Chat

Hi Guys and gals I will not be at chat tonight. So have a good time with out me. Tom R

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13200	From: roninscho9@yahoo.com	Date: 5/13/2001
Subject: Re: MRC 0-27

--unfortunately I don/t beleive there is an easy way out as this kind of power pack controls train speed by varring the wave form i.e. frequency of the A.C.current and the higher freq.ac is what makes the whistle / horn units work. therefor the high freq.wave form of this pack is trying to activate the whistle .you could try higher mfd capicators but I suspect the problem would still be there only now at higher throttle settings. try some higher value caps & let us know what ? you find Ron Inscho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13201	From: Clifford Manning	Date: 5/13/2001
Subject: track repair

I bought track which was used. Some of the track has broken pins. Does anyone have a suggestion as to removing them or to a repair/fix. I have 15 or 20 sections atleast. clifma19@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13202	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 5/13/2001
Subject: track repair

Clifford: You can drive new pins into the holes, which will push the old broken pins further into the rail sections. Perhaps you can salvage some pins from junk track sections. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13204	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 5/13/2001
Subject: Re: MRC O-27

From: eighthmile@m... Date: Sun May 13, 2001 10:09 pm Subject: Re: MRC O-27 Ron is correct in his analysis of the situation, but installing a higher value capacitor won't help. The Gilbert Airchime Whistle/Diesel Horn system that uses the vibrator "tube" uses the capacitor connected to the speaker as a "low cut" filter. It is meant to filter out the 60 Hz fundamental frequency of the AC feeding the track, allowing only the harmonics generated by the vibrator (when the button is pressed) to get to the speaker. The system depends on a smooth 60 Hz waveform being maintained when the button is NOT pressed to work properly. Any power supply that varies power by "gating" (chopping off) parts of the waveform (as opposed to simply varying it's amplitude) is essentially doing what the vibrator does to generate the horn sound. If the MRC power supply works that way, it simply is not compatible with the Gilbert whistle/horn system. Increasing the capacitance value or the capacitor will only lower the cut-off frequency of the filter, making the problem worse. Also, if the cut-off frequency is too low, enough of the constant 60 Hz voltage may leak through the capacitor and burn out the speaker, even when using a good old Gilbert transformer. (Personally, I wouldn't go over 25 mfd on the cap.) Sorry I can't be more encouraging, but it sounds like the choice is between Gilbert horn or MRC power. Ya got yer nostalgia or yer techno- logy, not always an easy choice in this hobby. Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13205	From: Alex	Date: 5/14/2001
Subject: Re: MRC O-27

What you may want to try is to *decrease* the value of the coupling capacitor, in order to pass more *higher* frequency energy and less lower frequency energy from the track into the speaker. The reactance, or ac "resistance" of a capacitor is *inversely* proportional to its value. If you increase the value (say, going from 1 uFd to 5 uFd), the cap present less opposition to the applied energy at a given frequency. If you decrease its value (say from 0.1 uFd to 0.005 uFd, for example), less signal will be coupled at the same frequency. A "uFd" or "uF" or "MF" or "MFD" is electronics shorthand for "microfarad." For those of you with a mathematical bent, the relationship is Xc = 1/ 2*pi*f*C. Xc is in ohms, even though it is NOT dc-resistance. It IS called reactance, specifically capacitive reactance. If you use this formula, C is in Farads and f is in Hertz. A microfarad is a millionth of a Farad, so move the decimal six places to the left. -- Alex in Kennebunk, Maine -----Original Message----- From: eighthmile@... [mailto:eighthmile@...] Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 1:15 AM To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [S-Trains] Re: MRC O-27 From: eighthmile@m... Date: Sun May 13, 2001 10:09 pm Subject: Re: MRC O-27 Ron is correct in his analysis of the situation, but installing a higher value capacitor won't help. The Gilbert Airchime Whistle/Diesel Horn system that uses the vibrator "tube" uses the capacitor connected to the speaker as a "low cut" filter. It is meant to filter out the 60 Hz fundamental frequency of the AC feeding the track, allowing only the harmonics generated by the vibrator (when the button is pressed) to get to the speaker. The system depends on a smooth 60 Hz waveform being maintained when the button is NOT pressed to work properly. Any power supply that varies power by "gating" (chopping off) parts of the waveform (as opposed to simply varying it's amplitude) is essentially doing what the vibrator does to generate the horn sound. If the MRC power supply works that way, it simply is not compatible with the Gilbert whistle/horn system. Increasing the capacitance value or the capacitor will only lower the cut-off frequency of the filter, making the problem worse. Also, if the cut-off frequency is too low, enough of the constant 60 Hz voltage may leak through the capacitor and burn out the speaker, even when using a good old Gilbert transformer. (Personally, I wouldn't go over 25 mfd on the cap.) Sorry I can't be more encouraging, but it sounds like the choice is between Gilbert horn or MRC power. Ya got yer nostalgia or yer techno- logy, not always an easy choice in this hobby. Chuck F. S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13206	From: D Simon	Date: 5/14/2001
Subject: Help needed

I just bought off our favorite thing "Ebay" the 32 City Street Equip. The inner part of the box is missing. Does anyone have an extra (ha ha) or know if there is a repro I can get.? thanks Dave _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13207	From: Walt Danylak	Date: 5/14/2001
Subject: Is There a AF Catalog Expert Out There?

To All, I have a question about the 1956 & 1957 AF catalogs. What is the difference between the 1956 D1866 and D1867 catalogs, and what is the difference between the 1957 D2006 and D2007 catalog? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Walt

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13208	From: riechert@qwest.net	Date: 5/14/2001
Subject: Re: Delivery date for AF accessories

I emailed Lionel and was politely pointed to the shipping schedule on their web page http://www.lionel.com/central/resources/shipping_frm.html The sawmill is scheduled for August and the others for October. > Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 12:31:24 -0400 > From: Jim Carnes <jcarnes@...> > Subject: Delivery date for AF accessories > > Does anyone have any information on the latest anticipated delivery > dates for the AF Sawmill, Gabe, and Coaler? -- Jerry Riechert --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Panda Mail. Check your regular email account away from home free! http://www.pandamail.net

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13209	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 5/14/2001
Subject: Re: track repair

Buy new KLine S gaugepins, available at a well stocked hobby store. They fit a little snug but aare useable. Push the old broken pins farther into the track with the new ones. Clifford Manning wrote: > > I bought track which was used. Some of the track has broken pins. Does > anyone have a suggestion as to removing them or to a repair/fix. I have > 15 or 20 sections atleast. > > clifma19@... > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13210	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/14/2001
Subject: Gee, wish I'd found one of these in the attic

Hi All, It's not an AF item, but it is sorta the start of toy electric trains. Ebay recently held an auction of one of J. Lionel's first engines. Something that was in this guy's family forever. He thought it was just a beat up piece, and might be interesting to someone. Hmm, final bid: $ 5,399.99! Yeah, MIGHT be interesting to someone! Here' s the auction number: OLD LIONEL DC POWERED COAL CAR Item #1142121941 and the URL for those of us with "click on" capabilities: http://cgi.ebay.aol.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1142121941&r=0&t= 0&showTutorial=0&ed=989712285&indexURL=0&rd=1 S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13211	From: Rick Evans	Date: 5/14/2001
Subject: Re: Is There a AF Catalog Expert Out There?

Well,...I'm no expert, but according to Greenberg, it's like this. The '56 D1866 is a consumer catalog for the east.... the '56 D1867 is for the west. The '57 D2006 for the east, and the D2007 for the west. There ya go Walt. Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13212	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 5/14/2001
Subject: NASG ELECTION & SURVEY

Thanks for all the responses to the election a few more may come in during the next few days. Remember they must be postmarked by May 15, 2001. The survey responses are also coming in and I have not gotten my NASG Dispatch yet. Hey David, I have some Gilbert pieces that look that bad. Perhaps I should put them on EBAY and retire early. I also have a Chicago American Flyer flat car from 1926. What's your opening bid on that. Staying on the NPSG branchline of NASG track, Glenn David Dewey wrote: Hi All, It's not an AF item, but it is sorta the start of toy electric trains. Ebay recently held an auction of one of J. Lionel's first engines. Something that was in this guy's family forever. He thought it was just a beat up piece, and might be interesting to someone. Hmm, final bid: $ 5,399.99! Yeah, MIGHT be interesting to someone! Here' s the auction number: OLD LIONEL DC POWERED COAL CAR Item #1142121941 and the URL for those of us with "click on" capabilities: http://cgi.ebay.aol.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1142121941&r=0&t= 0&showTutorial=0&ed=989712285&indexURL=0&rd=1 S' David D. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13213	From: Jim Carnes	Date: 5/14/2001
Subject: Re: Delivery date for AF accessories

Jerry, Thanks for the info. I'll mark my calendar and wait patiently (maybe!). I wasn't aware of this page on the Lionel site. Its been a long time since I spent much time on their site, that I didn't even think of looking there. Thanks, Jim Carnes riechert@... wrote: > I emailed Lionel and was politely pointed to the shipping schedule on their web page > > http://www.lionel.com/central/resources/shipping_frm.html > > The sawmill is scheduled for August and the others for October. > > > Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 12:31:24 -0400 > > From: Jim Carnes <jcarnes@...> > > Subject: Delivery date for AF accessories > > > > Does anyone have any information on the latest anticipated delivery > > dates for the AF Sawmill, Gabe, and Coaler? > > -- > Jerry > Riechert > > --------------------------------------------- > This message was sent using Panda Mail. Check your regular email account away from home > free! http://www.pandamail.net > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13214	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 5/14/2001
Subject: Re: Gee, wish I'd found one of these in the attic

In a message dated 5/14/01 12:18:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, djdewey@... writes: << Ebay recently held an auction of one of J. Lionel's first engines. Something that was in this guy's family forever. He thought it was just a beat up piece, and might be interesting to someone. Hmm, final bid: $ 5,399.99! Yeah, MIGHT be interesting to someone! Here' s the auction number: OLD LIONEL DC POWERED COAL CAR Item #1142121941 and the URL for those of us with "click on" capabilities: http://cgi.ebay.aol.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1142121941&r=0&t= 0&showTutorial=0&ed=989712285&indexURL=0&rd=1 >> The piece is a version of the early "Electric Express", which was the first powered car built by Joshua Lionel Cowan circa 1900 - 1903. This ran on 2 7/8 inch gauge track (pre Standard gauge). It may not be very pretty, but it is a very significant piece because relatively few have survived. It is isn't the first USA electric train -- Carlisle and Fitch were earlier -- but it does represent the dawn of Lionel. As kind of a rough approximation for the folk on this board, this is similar to finding a 633F (a G. Fox box car) or a 1946 Northern in AF S gauge. As such, it could be the center piece of a (prewar) Lionel enthusiast's collection. Under the circumstances and the history involved, ~$5000 is not out of whack. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13216	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 5/14/2001
Subject: Re: MRC O-27

I agree with Alex's presentation of capacitive reactance, but raising the filter cutoff frequency by decreasing capacitance will not eliminate the problem. The problem is that any power supply which controls it's output by gating (altering pulse width by removing part of the sine wave) is by nature of it's operation adding high frequencies (harmonics) to the power wave form. These harmonics will get through a high-pass filter whenever power is applied. What is actually needed is a "brick wall" low-pass filter that would filter out everything ABOVE the 60 Hz fundamental of the chopped up waveform coming from the MRC supply. Such a radical filter would be expensive to construct, would cause some power loss, and might defeat or reduce the finer control characteristics of the MRC supply. It would be cheaper and more efficient to just stay with a toy train transformer if the Gilbert horn/whistle system is in use. Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13217	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 5/14/2001
Subject: Long Lost Trains

This is the end of the story about the trains I ordered from American Models. As reported earlier, the B&O Pacific and 4 passenger cars were sent by American Models but I never got them. FedEx said they didn't require a signature for delivery because they were delivered to an individual, not a business. This is in spite of the fact that I had the trains delivered to my office, where I have been receiving business mail for 5 years, addressed to Peter J. Ervin, CPA. It's a public accounting firm. Got my name on the mail box and on a sign on the building next to the front entrance. It's not like FedEx doesn't realize I have a business there. The one piece of advice I can offer is to have items sent to a business, with the business's name on the box. That way they are supposed to get a signature, not just leave things in a hallway where anyone can pick them up. Ron is handling the insurance claim. The replacement items are beautiful and perfectly packaged. I'm very pleased with the way American Models handled this problem. This is one story with a happy ending! Peter Ervin

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13218	From: roninscho9@yahoo.com	Date: 5/14/2001
Subject: Re: MRC 0-27

its about time that we find a better way to control horns&whistles after all when these units worked good ? they were still a poor substitute for any whistle or horn .with todays electronics this shouldn/t pose much of a problem .as for a modern solution DCC is just one way. but for those with large layouts & lots of engines this is just too cost prohibitive RON INSCHO

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13219	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/14/2001
Subject: Re: Long Lost Trains

Peter, GREAT! I do find Fed ex's attitude interesting, as my DBA is my name, David Dewey, has been for some 20+ years, and the only permanent location of my business is my home. Hmmm.!!! Although for a few years I did actually have a Shop (Car Restoration) with it's own address. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13220	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/14/2001
Subject: Re: Gee, wish I'd found one of these in the attic

RB, Oh, I wasn't doubting the validity of the final bid, thought it might even be a bit low! Just that here's a train, been passed down through the family (if the blurb is to be believed) with none of the later owners realizing it's significance! Oh to find one at a yard sale, etc.!! Thanks for the AF comparision pieces examples. I wonder what happened to the track. Iron straps, I believe, set into wood ties? That probably would have really pumped up the price. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13221	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/14/2001
Subject: Re: Is There a AF Catalog Expert Out There?

Walt, I'm no expert, but the east catalog has lower prices than the western catalog. sometimes there are some differences in the page colors, I think? S David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13222	From: mk607@netzero.net	Date: 5/14/2001
Subject: smoke caps....help!!!!

Does anybody know what the flyer smoke caps are made out of??? here's the deal,I recently got my hands on a master carton, most are full, all are hard as a rock. is there anything I can use to "soften" these up before the rest of them break????? Thanks, Mike.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13223	From: sgriggs@umich.edu	Date: 5/14/2001
Subject: Re: Gee, wish I'd found one of these in the attic

--- In S-Trains@y..., "David Dewey" <djdewey@c...> wrote: > OLD LIONEL DC POWERED COAL CAR Item #1142121941 > and the URL for those of us with "click on" capabilities: > http://cgi.ebay.aol.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1142121941& r=0&t= > 0&showTutorial=0&ed=989712285&indexURL=0&rd=1 > > S' > David D. Note that the winning bidder sniped his way in with six seconds left in the auction. I bet the second place guy will think long and hard about this one that got away.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13224	From: d.garber@home.com	Date: 5/14/2001
Subject: smoke caps ...help

soaking in ARMORALL will do it but will remove the yellow printing also. If left in ARMORALL to long the caps. will become like mush or gell.If you have some broken ones try pieces first. Have fun Dave Garber

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13225	From: TWYLA STARR	Date: 5/14/2001
Subject: 720-720A Switches

I have a friend who is having a problem with a set of remote control switches. The coil is getting hot when the controller is activated. I think I remember seeing an article somewhere that said the early model controlers stayed engaged when activated causing a constant electrical supply to the switch instead of just a momentary one to throw it from one position to the other. If this is correct, how do you identify one type of controller from the other, or if anyone rembers seeing this article where can I find it? Thanks in advance, J. R. Starr [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13226	From: roninscho9@yahoo.com	Date: 5/14/2001
Subject: smoke caps

just about anything that you use to soften them will also cause them to break open & leak . one choice might be to do just that using a strainer & catch the smoke fluid a least you can salvage that .

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13227	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 5/14/2001
Subject: Re: 720-720A Switches

Switches with a square box to house the mechanism are the 720A's. Those with two rectangular boxes housing the mechanism and a manual throw lever next to the rails are 720s. (I have some of each.) The controllers are different. The 720 handles detent to and stay in the straight or curved position. The 720A controller handle always stays straight up, operates only when pushed to the curved or straight position, and springs back to straight up after you release it. TWYLA STARR wrote: > > I have a friend who is having a problem with a set of remote control switches. The coil is getting hot when the controller is activated. I think I remember seeing an article somewhere that said the early model controlers stayed engaged when activated causing a constant electrical supply to the switch instead of just a momentary one to throw it from one position to the other. If this is correct, how do you identify one type of controller from the other, or if anyone rembers seeing this article where can I find it? Thanks in advance, J. R. Starr > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13228	From: roninscho9@yahoo.com	Date: 5/14/2001
Subject: Re: 720-720A Switches

> > It is my experence the trouble is not in the controller unless it is somehow stuck making contact all the time but in the switch inside the motor house there is a throw bar connected to a sliding contact that when working right is supposed to disconnect the coil after each time it is thrown if this is stuck or off of the guideway it can cause the coil to be on all the time resulting in burned out coils Ron Inscho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13229	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/14/2001
Subject: Re: 720-720A Switches

Well, Chuck is partially right. The 720 switches do look like he described, but only the early 720 switches use the "constant on" controller. These are easy to spot by manually throwing the switch just part way open, either direction. At this point the switch coils won't get any power, as the disconnect contacts are open. This is why this design was dropped early on, too many switches didn't quite 'throw' and caused headaches! ACG should have listed "720" and "720A" AND "720B" to be accurate. The early mechanism also seems to have a tendency to come apart, I have seldom seen any that haven't been patched with solder, or other ideas. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13230	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 5/14/2001
Subject: Smoke Caps

You might try once the caps sofften to a "safe"pliability to take a syringe with a large needle and drain the capsuleyou might try this over a pyrex mesureing cup(large) with a strainer to capture any "crap" that falls apart....Just another of my wild ideas....it would also allow the caps to drainany excess...this is just an idea....I havent tried it with smoke caps.....Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13231	From: Rick Evans	Date: 5/15/2001
Subject: Re: Is There a AF Catalog Expert Out There?

"David Dewey" wrote: **(((I'm no expert, but the east catalog has lower prices than the western catalog. sometimes there are some differences in the page colors, I think?)))**** Ahhhhh,....good point David!! I forgot that part! As a Flyer ad in a 1955 Life magazine states,..."Prices slightly higher, Denver and West". Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13232	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 5/15/2001
Subject: Re: RENEWING NASG MEMBERSHIP

There is a generic dues notice in the April issue of the Dispatch. It is easier to send a dues reminder to everyone in the Dispatch mailing where the postage is already paid than to send specific renewal notices to the people who are due to renew this year. You can read the renewal date on the label of your Dispatch and determine whether the generic renewal notice applies to you. It is easy for many members to overlook the need to renew when their membership is actually expiring. It would cost over $500 postage to send a separate dues notice plus stationary & envelopes so please bear with us. If you are not a NASG member you can learn more about us and join at: http://www.nasg.org Staying on the NPSG branchline of NASG track, Glenn NASG Secretary

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13233	From: Richard J. Nicholls	Date: 5/15/2001
Subject: Disney Monorail

Friends, Several people have written to the list for information about ordering the Disney Monorail via mail order. See the e-mail below I received from WDW Mail Order <WDW.Mail.Order@...> about specific costs and shipping. Regards, Richard >Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 09:39:40 -0400 >From: WDW Mail Order <WDW.Mail.Order@...> >Subject: RE: Disney Monorail > >12700052 Monorail $60.00 >12744402 Space Ship Earth Building $35.00 >12744403 Contemporary $35.00 >12714000 extra curved track $10.00 >1271401 extra straight track $10.00 > >Regular ground shipping and handling within the continental United >States is $8.95 for up to $100 in merchandise and $13.95 if the >value exceeds $100. Please allow 3 to 4 weeks for U.S. deliveries. > >Please allow 5 to 10 business days for DHL deliveries. If you would >like to place an order you may do so by calling 407-363-6200, by fax >at 407-352-6369 or by e-mail with the following: Item List, Name, >Phone Number, Billing Address, Shipping Address and Credit Card >information with Expiration Date. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13234	From: Alex	Date: 5/15/2001
Subject: Re: MRC 0-27

Any circuit designers out there? Just a thought, but the quest for a simpler way to control horns and whistles (and lights, for that matter) would be to use an on-board relay, energizing it from a simple signal sent over the rails. When the relay closes, it would switch on a solid-state sound generator on the locomotive, perhaps something based on the ubiquitous 555 oscillator chip or discrete transistors. The sound generator could feed a small audio amplifier such as one based on an LM380 or LM386 chip, and that would drive the 8-ohm mini-loudspeaker on the loco. The electronic sound generator would derive its power from the rails as well, or perhaps it would use a small on-board battery. This type of scheme would alleviate the problem of sending (over the rails) the complex generated signal for the whistle/horn tones. The signal sent down the rails would only need to enable an on/off relay closure. Horn tones seem relatively easy to generate. I tinkered with a few circuits some time ago based on schematics I found in a book I was perusing at Borders Bookstore. It was a British publication, if I recall (I didn't buy it). The whistle was a tad more complex, involving some simple relaxation oscillators to get the generated tone to rise and fall. Fiddling with these systems on my workbench resulted in some acceptable tones (and a lot of weird sounds too). These circuits are similar to those used in electronic organs and sound-effect generators. A company called PAIA used to sell these a few years ago; perhaps a Web search would reveal some applicable circuits. This whole area of low-cost sound for model RRs seems ripe for someone to exploit to everyone's benefit. When you consider that El Cheapo greeting cards carry .WAV-based chips and amplifiers these days, why not put that kind of accurate sound into a model? The only constraint might be that the greeting card devices are mass produced (using cheap ROM-based silicon), but there are also sound recorder chips--from companies such as ISD--that are available in kits from Ramsey Electronics and maybe Radio Shack. These kits record sound and play it back from solid-state memory. With those you could record whatever you wish and then play it back. Ramsey's kit provides up to eight minutes of playback, and ISD's chips range from ten seconds to a half hour or more. ISD chips require no microprocessors or microcontrollers. Another thought: Sending much higher radio frequency (RF) energy down the rails, and modulating it appropriately, and then decoding it in the locomotive, would be an alternative way to go. Maybe that's what OSI does. I haven't looked into what that company does. But such a system would be akin to a carrier-current broadcast. That's used in some home networking systems or (even simpler) babysitter monitors or intercoms, where data and/or audio is sent over a home's ac power lines. In the case of a layout, the wiring is the rails, not the ac power lines. The remote intercoms that Heathkit sold back in the 1970s used simple L-C filters to provide modulation at various RF intervals across the low-frequency radio spectrum. I think it was around 150 kHz or so. That ensured that an intercom in one house wouldn't be picked up by a neighbor's intercom. It also provided multiple dedicated monitoring channels. These days, home networking is all the rage, and there are a number of companies selling silicon for ac-line powered transmission and reception of data. -- Alex in Kennebunk, Maine .-.-. -----Original Message----- From: roninscho9@... [mailto:roninscho9@...] Sent: Monday, May 14, 2001 4:54 PM To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [S-Trains] Re: MRC 0-27 its about time that we find a better way to control horns&whistles after all when these units worked good ? they were still a poor substitute for any whistle or horn .with todays electronics this shouldn/t pose much of a problem .as for a modern solution DCC is just one way. but for those with large layouts & lots of engines this is just too cost prohibitive RON INSCHO S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13235	From: Scott Holm	Date: 5/15/2001
Subject: Whistle controls

--- roninscho9@... wrote: > its about time that we find a better way to control horns&whistles > after all when these units worked good ? they were still a poor > substitute for any whistle or horn .with todays electronics this > shouldn/t pose much of a problem . Did anybody ever think of a way to replace the buzzer whistle controllers with something that sounds more like a whistle? We discussed this a long time ago and it was thought possible since all the speaker in the engine was doing was amplifying the noise the controller was making. So electronically or otherwise something could superimpose a whistle sound on the power supply. Has anybody tried anything that works? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13236	From: Rick Evans	Date: 5/15/2001
Subject: Re: RENEWING NASG MEMBERSHIP

Glenn Ritter wrote: ***(((There is a generic dues notice in the April issue of the Dispatch. It is easier to send a dues reminder to everyone in the Dispatch mailing where the postage is already paid than to send specific renewal notices to the people who are due to renew this year. You can read the renewal date on the label of your Dispatch and determine whether the generic renewal notice applies to you. It is easy for many members to overlook the need to renew when their membership is actually expiring. It would cost over $500 postage to send a separate dues notice plus stationary & envelopes so please bear with us.)))**** This makes good "cents" to me Glenn!! One can also check their memership card, however one would need to know where their card is!! I just found mine yesterday,..it never made it into my wallet! Rick (#OORO184W) Evans :-)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13237	From: Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S.	Date: 5/15/2001
Subject: [Advertisment] BL2 Photos and Delivery Schedule

Howdy Friends We have just put several new photos of the BL2 model on our web site. These can be viewed at http://www.btsrr.com/btsbl2.htm While we had expected to ship the first batch this week, early this morning we discovered a minor complication with one of the parts, and decided that the model would be much better if we reworked that part prior to shipment. So, we expect to ship the kits in a few weeks rather than tomorrow. Sorry for the delay, but we want you to have the best possible model. Diane and I are leaving for the Spree in Columbus tomorrow and we will be away from the email basket until next Monday. Thanks, and take care, Bill -- ============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-643-1105 FAX: 813-681-7326 B.T.S. http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13238	From: Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S.	Date: 5/15/2001
Subject: [Fwd: [S-Scale] BL2 Decals]

Howdy Friends Several folks have contacted us offline about BL2 decals. Here is the post Des Plaines Hobbies put on the list a couple of weeks ago. Hope everyone contacts Ron ASAP with a decal order!!! Thanks, Bill Sebastian Ron wrote: > > Apparently the BL2 model is imminent as we have had many requests recently > to do some decals for them. While we have not been actively adding to our > S Decal line for some time, we do have the artwork mostly completed for > some of the roads that had BL2s. > > We can paste up B&M, C&O, C&EI, CI&L, and WM pretty easily. I think CRIP > can be pieced together from our existing Rock Island set. All the art is > for the delivery schemes. The art is not digital as it was done several > years ago when Charlie Sandersfeld was going to get a BL2 done. That means > I would send it out to have them printed (as opposed to printing on an > ALPS). Most custom decal guys minimum is 25 sets so that is the magic > number to get these printed. With the exception of the set I need, we will > only print the roads that we have reservations for 25 sets for. > > Sets will only include correct heralds, road names, road numbers, and any > applicable banner slogans (such as the CI&L "The Hoosier Line"). Not > included will be striping, builder plates, and numberoard numbers as these > are generally available on other sets and including them would drive the > cost up horrendously. As it is, the cost will be somewhere in the $6.00 to > $8.00 range. > > We will take reservations for about two weeks. Although the numbers needed > are small, I suspect there may not be sufficient interest for some of the > roads. Any road not receiving 25 reservations, will not be done. Delivery > usually takes less than four weeks from the time we send the art to the > printer. > > Written reservations only by either email or send notes (and mark the > envelope "decals")to: > > Ron Sebastian > Des Plaines Hobbies > 1468 Lee Street > Des Plaines, IL 60018 > dphobbies@... -- ============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-643-1105 FAX: 813-681-7326 B.T.S. http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13239	From: Dick Kuepper	Date: 5/15/2001
Subject: Re: [showcaseline] Disney Monorail

Richard - Is there a website or ? where you can see these items? Thanks. Dick [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13240	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 5/15/2001
Subject: Re: 720-720A Switches

The point is, if you use the early controllers with the later switches then the switch coils will be on all the time and overheat. David Dewey wrote: > > Well, Chuck is partially right. The 720 switches do look like he described, > but only the early 720 switches use the "constant on" controller. These are > easy to spot by manually throwing the switch just part way open, either > direction. At this point the switch coils won't get any power, as the > disconnect contacts are open. This is why this design was dropped early on, > too many switches didn't quite 'throw' and caused headaches! ACG should have > listed "720" and "720A" AND "720B" to be accurate. The early mechanism also > seems to have a tendency to come apart, I have seldom seen any that haven't > been patched with solder, or other ideas. > S' > David D. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13241	From: John Foley	Date: 5/15/2001
Subject: Steamtown convention cars

Hi Folks The convention cars are almost gone. The car with the convention year are gone. We still have 20 of the cars with the prototype numbers available So if you want one order it now. http://trainweb.org/steamtown2001/ John Foley

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13242	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/15/2001
Subject: Re: 720-720A Switches

Chuck, VERY TRUE!! I should have made that point in my post. That's actually why I posted, as I didn't want to hear about someone using the early controller on the later 720 switches, which WILL burn them out. This is, of course, also true of the 720A switches. S' David D. Another way to spot those early switches is, they seldom work!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13243	From: Alan Evans	Date: 5/16/2001
Subject: All aboard for the Spring S Spree!!

Fellow S Gaugers: The S Spree is upon us!! A good list of pre-registered vendors and guests. See what American Models has in Empire State Express sample, E-8 sample, SD-60 samples, all the Budd cars. Banta Models - pick out some structures for your layout BTS - sample of that "beast" BL-2 and the latest small steamers! Des Plaines Hobbies - stop by Ron's table Greenbriar Models - GP30s John Heck - plenty of Flyer and bargains too Pennsylvania Heritage - drives for Trainmaster, other surprises S Helper - up-dated samples of F-3s, other goodies, track, switches River Raisin - Jim and Dan will be here with brass, maybe one Berk left(?), cabeese SouthWind Models - learn about upcoming projects Plus dealers from other places showing ONLY S GAUGE ITEMS -- NOT AN ALL GAUGE SHOW -- ONLY S GAUGE!!!! The Krispy Kreme flat car is sold out -- the tour to Longaberger Baskets leaves at 10:00 a.m. from the hotel. Some interesting clinics -- a popular model contest --- videos to watch in the hospitality room -- lots of goodies in the "goody bag." The picnic is always a fun time from 4:00 to 7:00 -- enough food for ALL!! SEE YOU THERE!!!!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13244	From: Richard J. Nicholls	Date: 5/16/2001
Subject: Disney Monorail

>Hey guys! I have the set and will send a picture to anyone who wants to see >this item. We run it before Disney trips to get the kids excited...as if >that was needed! ... Art, I think we would all love to see your picture. The only pictures I've seen thus far are at: http://www.bigbrian-nc.com/monomodelcolage.jpg Regards, Richard [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13245	From: Alex	Date: 5/16/2001
Subject: Re: [Advertisment] BL2 Photos and Delivery Schedule

Thanks too for the links to the Maine railroads page from your site. I notice that in one Maine RR photo there's a roundhouse in the background. I have some color prints of this and the turntable (it's still in use by the way) as well as photos of old snowplow cars that have since disappeared from the South Portland yard and have been replaced by modern snow plowing gear. I guess I have to find someone who can scan my prints so that others might be able to see these items of interest that date back to the steam era. -- Alex in Kennebunk, Maine -----Original Message----- From: Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S. [mailto:wadepub@...] Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 3:09 PM To: 9 - S-Scale; 9 - S-Trains Subject: [S-Trains] [Advertisment] BL2 Photos and Delivery Schedule Howdy Friends We have just put several new photos of the BL2 model on our web site. These can be viewed at http://www.btsrr.com/btsbl2.htm While we had expected to ship the first batch this week, early this morning we discovered a minor complication with one of the parts, and decided that the model would be much better if we reworked that part prior to shipment. So, we expect to ship the kits in a few weeks rather than tomorrow. Sorry for the delay, but we want you to have the best possible model. Diane and I are leaving for the Spree in Columbus tomorrow and we will be away from the email basket until next Monday. Thanks, and take care, Bill -- ============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-643-1105 FAX: 813-681-7326 B.T.S. http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13246	From: Scott Holm	Date: 5/16/2001
Subject: Re: Disney Monorail Pictures

--- Dick Kuepper <rkuepper@...> wrote: > Is there a website or ? where you can see these items? Here is a site with detailed pictures and story. It also has a link to buy it online, but the link is not found, and a search of the mouseshoppe only turns up the DisneyLAND monorail. http://www.mouseplanet.com/al/docs/monorail.htm And another picture with ordering information: http://www.disneyzone.net/gifts.htm Here's one that's up for auction at Ebay with a picture of the unopened set: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1144935385 And one with a couple of accessories: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1143078573 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13247	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 5/16/2001
Subject: (no subject)

I have gotten interested in having a snow plow for my layout. It started when I flew back from Chicago -- Immediately after the plane took off, it flew over a huge Soo LIne yard that had TWO snowplows sitting ready for action. (perhaps there's a clue there as to how those Chicago people survive that weather?) They looked very old fashioned, but were obviously still in use. Had never seen a railroad snow plow before. I think they were both flangers, but I wouldn't mind a rotary one. Perhaps it could have a miniature fog gun in it to simulate snow being blown away. So Alex, please post those photos! Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13248	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/16/2001
Subject: Re: Disney Monorail Pictures

Disney web page says these are HO scale. Larry Jackman Scott Holm wrote: > > --- Dick Kuepper <rkuepper@...> wrote: > > Is there a website or ? where you can see these items? > > Here is a site with detailed pictures and story. It also has a link to > buy it online, but the link is not found, and a search of the > mouseshoppe only turns up the DisneyLAND monorail. > > http://www.mouseplanet.com/al/docs/monorail.htm > > And another picture with ordering information: > > http://www.disneyzone.net/gifts.htm > > Here's one that's up for auction at Ebay with a picture of the unopened > set: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1144935385 > > And one with a couple of accessories: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1143078573 > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13249	From: Scott Holm	Date: 5/16/2001
Subject: Re: Disney Monorail Pictures

No, it says that earlier models were HO. Later in the article he estimates it as being 1:50 scale. --- lawrence jackman <ljack70117@...> wrote: > Disney web page says these are HO scale. > Larry Jackman > > Scott Holm wrote: > > > > --- Dick Kuepper <rkuepper@...> wrote: > > > Is there a website or ? where you can see these items? > > > > Here is a site with detailed pictures and story. It also has a link > to > > buy it online, but the link is not found, and a search of the > > mouseshoppe only turns up the DisneyLAND monorail. > > > > http://www.mouseplanet.com/al/docs/monorail.htm > > > > And another picture with ordering information: > > > > http://www.disneyzone.net/gifts.htm > > > > Here's one that's up for auction at Ebay with a picture of the > unopened > > set: > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1144935385 > > > > And one with a couple of accessories: > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1143078573 > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13250	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 5/16/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] All aboard for the Spring S Spree!!

Dear Alan, I am sorry that I had not talked to you last night when I called your house. I would have told you that S Helper Service would be displaying the following items at the Spree: PRODUCTION models for all roadnames of the phase II F-3, A & B sets Painted and lettered samples for our new Double Sheathed boxcars Painted and lettered samples for all our new caboose roadnames including the Chessie Special, Test shots of our flex track. Don T. Alan Evans wrote: > Fellow S Gaugers: > > The S Spree is upon us!! A good list of pre-registered > vendors and guests. See what > > S Helper - up-dated samples of F-3s, other goodies, > track, switches > > SEE YOU THERE!!!! -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 F-3 A and B unit sets are now sailing! http://www.showcaseline.com/emdf3s_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13251	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 5/16/2001
Subject: E-BAY ERROR OR WHAT????

Check Out item # 1146065654 On E-bay and the guy's attitude....Or am I missing something here....Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13252	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 5/16/2001
Subject: Re: E-BAY ERROR OR WHAT????

Quite a bargain. I would say that the seller made an error in his listing, and put $25 as his Buy-It-Now price. He would seem to be obligated to sell it for that. anormal1@... wrote: > Check Out item # 1146065654 On E-bay and the guy's attitude....Or am I > missing something here....Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13253	From: D Simon	Date: 5/17/2001
Subject: Warning

Just wnnted to let everyone know not to deal with Vince Jackson <paintingclemson@...>. He is a crook. I bought 4 cars from him 2 were fine right away the 3 was in wrong box that he did correct but the 4th was a 50's version pipe car NOT the new car he said it was. I sent it back to him for refund and now he claims that is not what he sent me. It took 3 emails just for him to admit he recieved the return. I am filing a complaint with the post office for fraud. Please be very careful if you deal with him Dave _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13254	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 5/17/2001
Subject: Re: E-BAY ERROR OR WHAT????

The guy was so intent on screwed-up attitude , he left a zero or 2 off the price. Ebay will of course let him slide on everything. Not filling the order if he does not Which he probably will not; threatening negative feedback in his description diatribe. Including phone number leaves a lot open to question. Could seller be a shill or ghost setting up a different vendor for harassment??. And still eBay will answer with, " ...we are only a venue... ". Dennis On Thu, 17 May 2001 00:06:56 EDT anormal1@... writes: > Check Out item # 1146065654 On E-bay and the guy's > attitude....Or am I > missing something here....Mike S. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13255	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 5/17/2001
Subject: GG-1 auction

I am ussually very quick to defend sellers on eBay.I have had more than my share of non-payers,I bid by mistake,I bid too much,I didn't read the description buyers.However just for kicks I called 718-294-1614 to see if this was a done deal.he said I didn't know what I was talking about .He didn't sell a GG-1 for $25 then hung up on me.Keith _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13256	From: Rick Evans	Date: 5/17/2001
Subject: Re: E-BAY ERROR OR WHAT????

What is the secret to finding an item at ebay with the item number???? Typing it into search doesn't work for me. Thanks, Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13257	From: Dennis Back	Date: 5/17/2001
Subject: Copying eBAy #'s (was E-BAY ERROR OR WHAT????)

--- Rick Evans wrote: > > What is the secret to finding an item at ebay with > the item number???? > Typing it into search doesn't work for me. Here is the secret. Don't tell anyone. ;-) You have to go to eBay Smart Search. Here is the link: http://pages.ebay.com/search/items/search.html Once you have done this, you will find TABS at the top of the page. You can search for ITEMS by just typing in a word. If you want to search by item NUMBER, you click on the tab that says "By Item Number." There are other options that you can search by on the top also. Just a note to people that want to share ebay items...the easiest thing to do is when you are looking at an item, go to the top of the browser where it says "Location" (all the www...http stuff) and highlight it and copy it by going to EDIT, then COPY. Or you can copy by going to Control and then "C". Then you can PASTE the whole item address into your email by going to EDIT, paste, or Control "V". So that's the secret. Remember...don't tell anyone. <vbg>. Regards, Dennis Miam __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13258	From: Alex	Date: 5/17/2001
Subject: That eBay GG-1 jerk

This situation underscores that maybe the "old fashioned" was of horse trading, where the buyers and sellers meet eye to eye at conventions and local swapfests is really still the best. The more I hear about eBay, the less I'm inclined to use it. -- Alex -----Original Message----- From: Keith Kuzma [mailto:keithkuzma@...] Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 1:52 PM To: s-trains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [S-Trains] GG-1 auction I am ussually very quick to defend sellers on eBay.I have had more than my share of non-payers,I bid by mistake,I bid too much,I didn't read the description buyers.However just for kicks I called 718-294-1614 to see if this was a done deal.he said I didn't know what I was talking about .He didn't sell a GG-1 for $25 then hung up on me.Keith _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13259	From: belairchevy@webtv.net	Date: 5/17/2001
Subject: CSX Runaway

Group, This has to do with the big trains as opposed to "S" but I thought it was worth sharing with the group. I received an email of a "blow by blow" description of the recent CSX runaway train. Go to: http://www.geocities.com/belairchevy/csx.html If you are interested in real railroad operations you will be amazed at what went on. It sounds like something that was written for Hollywood! Brad

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13260	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 5/17/2001
Subject: CSX Runaway

This is a very interesting story of old-time railroading derring-do. Don't let it fool you though. To quote from a local newspaper: "CSX said that an engineer had set two of three brakes and thought he had set a third, but accidentally hit the throttle instead. By the time he realized his mistake, he had hopped off the train to manually switch tracks. The engineer, whose name was not released, had an unblemished 35 year safety record. i suspect this train was running with a two man crew. With an adequate crew, the engineer would not have had to leave the cab during switching manuvers. Modern American railroads often run trains with inadequate crews. Since hazardous materials are routinely carried in bulk on trains, as they were on this one, the small crew policy represents a significant danger to the public. And it's only going to get worse unless the public gets involved. Railroads want to reduce crew sizes even further, and eventually use automated trains with no crews at all! These are recipes for disaster. Many disasters. Fortunately, there wasn't one this time. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13261	From: Jacques Ollivier	Date: 5/17/2001
Subject: something to pull with

Hi guys, I lucked into a set of 4 five digit Northern Pacific passenger cars (coach has one broken skirt). Along with all the other stuff I got, it was the best $100 I've ever spent! Being a poor school teacher with a stay-at-home wife, I can't see being able to afford the engine to pull them. I've got about 5 sixth graders repairing the various in-pieces locos that came in the collection with these cars during their lunch time. They love it! Three questions: 1. Does anyone have a spare top for a silver bullet tender. Condition doesn't matter since a repaint is necessary? 2. Which leads me to question two. Did Northern Pacific ever use this type of engine to pull passenger cars like mine? May be a tough repaint. 3. Were there any steam engines that would have pulled a set of passenger cars like this? Jacques

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13262	From: THOMAS C. FISHER	Date: 5/17/2001
Subject: EBay GG-1

I read the recent posts on the GG-1 for $25........by rights he was obligated to sell as such. I'd be real leary of this one, I do belive he uses shills. About a year ago he had a pre-war AF Royal Blue set with OBs, it sold with one bid at a price well in excess of four times what these normally go for. Smitty [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13263	From: John Harvey	Date: 5/17/2001
Subject: Can Motors for AF

A word from downunder. I have just installed Steve Blackburn's can motors in two of my ancient diecast AF steamers. They came complete with a "worm" and dropped straight in. A perfect fit! The improvement in slow speed performance was amazing. Just like a heart transplant! Kind Regards, John Harvey Beechworth, VIC, 3747, Australia e-mail: brigadie@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13264	From: busyboy	Date: 5/17/2001
Subject: Re: E-BAY ERROR OR WHAT????

Chuck & Mike were discussing an AM GG-1 that sold on a "Buy It Now" on e-Bay with $25 showing. I saw this too and I don't believe that $25 was the "Buy It Now" price. I believe that it was the opening bid, to which the eventual buyer responded. He bid the opening $25, then decided to go ahead and meet the seller's price. The actual selling price disappears once "Buy It Now" is activated. As to the seller's attitude, I have seen many auctions by this seller and on principle and acting out of good sense, I have never and will not ever do business with him. His attitude has always been suspicious to me and his policies are anathema to good business practice. This particular statement, "PEOPLE WHO LEAVE NEGATIVE FEEDBACK WILL NEVER RECEIVE REFUNDS, AND THEY WILL LOSE ALL BIDDING PRIVILEDGES", may actually constitute a violation of e-Bay policy. Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13265	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 5/17/2001
Subject: Re: E-BAY ERROR OR WHAT????

I can tell you as an eBayer with over 300 transactions myself, that this seller is not someone I would want to do business wtih. He has 32 negatives, and and 21 neutrals from people that are still eBay users. If you consider how reluctant people are to leave negative feedback for fear of retaliation, and the factor in his attempt discourage negative feedback via the no refund threat, this guy must be terrible to deal with and has many unhappy customers! Regarding the train that sold for $25, the way I understand Buy-It-Now (and I have been on both sides of Buy-It-Now transactions) the winning bid was absolutely $25. Of course a seller like we are dealing with here is never going to complete the transaction. His ethics appear thin, and what is he afraid of, another negative when you already have 32 of them. Yes I know he has a high positive feedback rating, but take my word for it, that the fact that he has so many negatives is just the tip of the iceberg! There are many sellers with a lot higher feedback rating, and not near this kind of negative thing. Many have zero negatives! Regarding you guys who justify not dealing with eBay because of the horror stories... I just received a Beautiful Frontiersman WASHINGTON Civil War boxed set I bought on eBay in E++ condition for 60% of it's value. This is a hard set to buy at any price. I have not seen it at the 3 Yorks I attended, nor have I seen it at any Florida trains shows. I am thrilled with this purchase, and it will be the very last AF train that I will ever part with. Thankyou eBay, I couldn't have done it with out you!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13266	From: ron inscho	Date: 5/17/2001
Subject: CSX Runaway

http://www.geocities.com/belairchevy/csx.html [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13267	From: ron inscho	Date: 5/18/2001
Subject: Fw: keep on cuting

----- Original Message ----- From: ron inscho To: plank@... Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 3:01 AM Subject: Fw: keep on cuting ----- Original Message ----- From: ron inscho To: rockyfork@... Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2001 11:55 PM Subject: keep on cuting http://messages.yahoo.com/bbs?.mm=FN&action=m&board=7081580&tid=csx&sid=7081580&mid=3447 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13268	From: ron inscho	Date: 5/18/2001
Subject: keep on cuting

http://messages.yahoo.com/bbs?.mm=FN&action=m&board=7081580&tid=csx&sid=7081580&mid=3447 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13269	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 5/18/2001
Subject: NEED A GG-1

Here is another one ,or the same one again.Apparently we were wrong when we decided he left a zero off.Take a look. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13270	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 5/18/2001
Subject: NEED A GG-1?

Here is another one ,or the same one again.Apparently we were wrong when we decided he left a zero off.Take a look. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13271	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 5/18/2001
Subject: NEED A GG-1?

Here is another one ,or the same one again.Apparently we were wrong when we decided he left a zero off.Take a look.Item #1146529657 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13272	From: Richard Gajnak	Date: 5/18/2001
Subject: Re: CSX Runaway

Brad (belairchevy@xxx) wrote: >If you are interested in real railroad operations you will be amazed at >what went on. It sounds like something that was written for Hollywood! Sorry, not "real" enough for Hollywood. 1. No disgruntled employee out to get even. 2. No damsel in distress. 3. Train speed too slow and constant. 4. No hospital or orphanage on the outside of a curve in immanent danger. 5. No attempt to get a crewman onto the train via helicopter or speeding SUV. 6. No crewman from the second locomotive running across the tops of the freight cars to get to the first locomotive. 7. No "bridge out" or other end of track scenario. 8. No disabled gasoline truck or school bus in the train's path. OK, there was some hazardous material on the train, but there's usually some on any train. But still, from what I saw on TV, there was indeed a measure of excitement. Be seeing you... Rich G.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13273	From: Thomas EE Hillery	Date: 5/18/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1018

RE: the GG-1 Just want to say that the 66699 GG-1 guy used to have a retail outlet a few years ago in NYC and I used to deal with him face to face and he was a nice guy then. Maybe EBAY drives people crazy--Tom Hillery

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13274	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/18/2001
Subject: Re: keep on cuting

Yes but the engineer is not required to throw the switch while the locomotive is moving, He could have stooped. Everybody wants to blame someone else for their mistake. Adam did it in the garden. Larry J ron ron inscho wrote: > > http://messages.yahoo.com/bbs?.mm=FN&action=m&board=7081580&tid=csx&sid=7081580&mid=3447 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ wrote: > > http://messages.yahoo.com/bbs?.mm=FN&action=m&board=7081580&tid=csx&sid=7081580&mid=3447 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13275	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/18/2001
Subject: Re: NEED A GG-1?--consider it reported!

I agree with the previous postings--that this guy's item description statement is a violation of eBay rules, so I have reported it to Safe Harbor. MAYBE it will do some good, as they sorta know me by now! BTW, the seller who still hasn't delivered my Frontiersman 30 car was "deregistered". but I see he is now back, with the same ID. Hmm. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13276	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 5/18/2001
Subject: GG-1

I think all this uproar over an obvious typographical error is disgusting. It just shows that collectors, especially the modern American kind, are not nice people. Cupiditas habendi is a curse. If that's the kind of bargain you want, i suggest you search your town dump every week. Or look upwards; maybe there's a pie in the sky. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13277	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 5/18/2001
Subject: Re: GG-1

Tom, the point was not about finding a steal(or creating one). It is about this sellers attitude and Ebay's unresponsiveness. Been through this as a buyer. (I DO NOT sell on ebay). After trying to settle and going to ebay, vendor got my phone no. from them to "try and resolve this". When I would not pay more than the settled as described BID and S/H , He gave me negative feedback on 2 items even though he had 2 USPS MOs in his possession. The real question goes to character. ON both sides of the issue at hand and any transaction. Dennis Troini On Fri, 18 May 2001 15:20:28 -0400 jarcho@... writes: > I think all this uproar over an obvious typographical error is > disgusting. > > It just shows that collectors, especially the modern American kind, > are not > nice people. Cupiditas habendi is a curse. > > If that's the kind of bargain you want, i suggest you search your > town dump > every week. Or look upwards; maybe there's a pie in the sky. > > Tom Jarcho > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13278	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 5/18/2001
Subject: Re: GG-1

Dennis: nonsense! Ebay is a zoo, and that atmosphere is created by the buyers, not the sellers. This was just a more obnoxious than usual example of it. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13279	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 5/18/2001
Subject: GG-1/eBay

I hate to be middle of the road but ,I agree and disagree with Mr. Jarcho.There are people on both sides of the buying and selling game that are less than honorable.Just like at shows,in mail order,in life.A few people mess it up for everyone. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13280	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/18/2001
Subject: Re: GG-1

Hi Tom, et al, My problem is not with the typo, but with this seller's stated attitude; that, if you complain about ANYTHING, you're out your money and banned from bidding with him/her. It turns out the guy who plopped down the $32 ($25, plus $7 shipping) is on the S-Scale list, and he figures he is out the bucks. Given that it probably was a typo on the sellers part, he should at least return the money! It is because of the sellers statement, really more a written threat, that I reported it to Safe Harbor. Now we will see if it makes any difference. . . . Meantime, I know one eBay seller I will avoid! Oh make that two, there's the guy who has my $27 still and I have no AF car yet. S' David D. PS everyone have a great weekend, I'll probably not make it, or at least be late, to Chat Sunday night--enjoy your reprieve from my bad jokes and puns!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13281	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 5/18/2001
Subject: TRAIN AUCTION (LIVE)

This Sat (Tomorrow) There is going to be a live train auction by one of So Californias largest train stores....It is being held by Allied Trains at the Arcadia Masonic Lodge 50 W. Duarte Road, Arcadia ,Ca. Time 9;00am -5:00pm Registration 9:00am Auction Starts11:00am sharp There are over 300 lots to be sold NO Reserve FREE Admission All scales new used parts etcThey take cash checks credit cards etc..No AMERICAN EXPRESS 2% discount for cash....This is located near the Santa Anita Race Track For INFO 310-313-9353 I know most of you guys are on the East coast but Myself and Dave Dewey do live on the west coast(a little far for him to drive)According to their flyer there will be a lot of different scales gauges there they list Z,N,HO,O-27,S,and G....Electric Norman should be there if you don't know him you should Everything Electrical he carries or can get.....Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13282	From: Salaway	Date: 5/18/2001
Subject: Re: TRAIN AUCTION (LIVE)

Sunday May 20th NOT Saturday. I'll be there and report back to the group regarding any great A.F. offerings !!! Thanks, Steve Salaway, L.A.Flyer ----- Original Message ----- From: <anormal1@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 4:14 PM Subject: [S-Trains] TRAIN AUCTION (LIVE) > This Sat (Tomorrow) There is going to be a live train auction by one of So > Californias largest train stores....It is being held by Allied Trains at the > Arcadia Masonic Lodge 50 W. Duarte Road, Arcadia ,Ca. Time 9;00am > -5:00pm Registration 9:00am Auction Starts11:00am sharp There are over > 300 lots to be sold NO Reserve FREE Admission All scales new used parts > etcThey take cash checks credit cards etc..No AMERICAN EXPRESS 2% discount > for cash....This is located near the Santa Anita Race Track For INFO > 310-313-9353 I know most of you guys are on the East coast but Myself and > Dave Dewey do live on the west coast(a little far for him to drive)According > to their flyer there will be a lot of different scales gauges there they list > Z,N,HO,O-27,S,and G....Electric Norman should be there if you don't know him > you should Everything Electrical he carries or can get.....Mike S. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13283	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 5/18/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, May 20, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13284	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 5/18/2001
Subject: Live Auction

Thank You Steve....I stand corrected....Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13285	From: John Harvey	Date: 5/18/2001
Subject: Touch Up Paint

I have quite a few "ancient" AF diecast steamers which I am in the process of restoring. Does anyone have a "sure fire" method of touching up the nicks and scratches in the black finish. I don't really want to completely strip and repaint them. How about lampblack or stove polish? Can anyone recommend an exact paint match? Regards, John Harvey e-mail: brigadie@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13286	From: mlmarmer	Date: 5/18/2001
Subject: Re: Touch Up Paint

I have seen Jim Patterson of Silver Spring, MD use just a Sharpie, Black of course. Looked okay, I have not this to any of my AF metal steamers however. Mike Marmer Germantown, MD

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13287	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 5/18/2001
Subject: Re; whistle controls

--- In S-Trains@y..., Scott Holm <imsscott@y...> wrote: > Did anybody ever think of a way to replace the buzzer whistle > controllers with something that sounds more like a whistle? >Snip< >So electronically or otherwise something could > superimpose a whistle sound on the power supply. Has anybody tried > anything that works? Essentially, that's what Gilbert did with their electronic whistle control. It was a vacuum tube oscillator mounted in a metal case about the size of a medium power AF transformer, that generated a signal of about 600 Hz. The signal was inserted into the power waveform by running track power through a coupling transformer within the case. The controller apparently wasn't too popular. I've seen a few for sale at toy train shows, usually for around $25. They always seem to be in excellent shape, as if they've seen little or no use. Here's one for sale: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll? ViewItem&item=590720676&tc=photo480 BTW, because the speaker in the AF whistle system does not, technically, "amplify" (increase) the signal (It merely transduces the electrical signal fed to it from electrical to acoustic energy), the signal voltage has to be of a level high enough to drive the speaker without amplification. Also, in order to be mixed with the power waveform, both the power current and the signal current must go through the device in question. It would therefore be most practical to design such a signal generator as part of a given power supply/controller. Why MRC or some other mrr power supply mfgr hasn't done such may have to do with perceived demand, or patent rights. Anybody care to guess who might own the patents on the Gilbert horn/whistle system? Wait...wait...it's coming to me... I see a big "L"... Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13288	From: The Reis's	Date: 5/18/2001
Subject: Re: Touch Up Paint

A paint match that I have used is some of the Krylon spray SATIN blacks. Not perfect but match the sheen better than most anything. I have used this for chips by spraying some in the paint cap and then dabbing it on the chip with a very small paintbrush or even a toothpick. Usually the chip leaves a small recess which you can fill up. For a large area you would feather in the area and spray it, but a small chip or scratch you can just drop a little bit of thin paint and it will usually fill in pretty well. Good luck Eric Reis Kenmore, Wa. -----Original Message----- From: John Harvey [mailto:brigadie@...] Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 7:58 PM To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [S-Trains] Touch Up Paint I have quite a few "ancient" AF diecast steamers which I am in the process of restoring. Does anyone have a "sure fire" method of touching up the nicks and scratches in the black finish. I don't really want to completely strip and repaint them. How about lampblack or stove polish? Can anyone recommend an exact paint match? Regards, John Harvey e-mail: brigadie@... S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13289	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 5/18/2001
Subject: Re: Touch Up Paint

Gawrsh, it's those little nicks in the paint that help to give the loco it's own "personality"! Besides, even if you did a great job of touching up the paint, the engine will likely pick up more nicks in normal use. But, if you just can't stand those teensy bare spots (I know the feeling), here's what you might try: Get a 1/4 ounce bottle of Testor's gloss black enamel paint from any hobby store. Get another same bottle of flat black enamel from the same place. From these two paints, mix a 50/50 glob of paint on a piece of cardboard or other disposable material. Apply the paint to individual nicks with a toothpick or very small paint brush. The flat/gloss mixture will dry to a sheen very close to the original semi-gloss (or semi-flat, if you prefer) of the original paint. Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13290	From: Bill Lane	Date: 5/19/2001
Subject: GG-1 episode

Roger and list, I am sorry, but a $15.00 gift certificate to a train shop that I would probably not be able to use would not satisfy me. As I mentioned in my first post, the S Trains list members have had dealings with that seller. No one could accuse them of being too kind when they posted of their experiences. As Ebay sellers know, you have plenty of time to review your ad while writing it before you cut it loose. If he put an incorrect price in the listing, shame on him. I would report him to Safe Harbor in a New York Minute! He is bound by Ebay rules to sell it to you at that price. You could possibly get that I D banned from selling. That would be a major inconvenience to an active seller to start over with a new I. D. As I recall, the seller had a pretty high feedback number. There were a slightly higher number of negative feedbacks then I expected. Go for the throat!! Please keep us updated on the little drama as it unfolds! BTW, I was going to wait a few days and offer you $100.00 for it. I know, I know, it is generous of me............ Bill

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13291	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 5/19/2001
Subject: Re: Touch Up Paint

I just came across this web site, know nothing about it, but might be worth a look for paint. If you try it let me know, as I will soon be doing the same with some of my old 302's. http://www.trainenamel.com/ Tom At 12:58 PM 5/19/01 +1000, John Harvey wrote: >I have quite a few "ancient" AF diecast steamers which I am in the process >of restoring. Does anyone have a "sure fire" method of touching up the >nicks and scratches in the black finish. I don't really want to completely >strip and repaint >them. How about lampblack or stove polish? Can anyone recommend an exact >paint match? > >Regards, > >John Harvey >e-mail: brigadie@... > > > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ _---_---_---______--__--___+-----+||] [||####### B & O #####|______||_____ || pjpennington@... __| [][] |__ || ||_______________________/ _| B&O |___\_|| | ||| | | | | | | / | 4212 | # ||| | []|=|==================o=====o==================|=|[] /|-||(0)|=|(0)|=|(O) |_________| (0)|=|(0)|=|(O)||-|\ ======================================================== [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13292	From: Peck	Date: 5/19/2001
Subject: Re: Whistle controls

If anyone is really looking for one of these Gilbert Electronic Whistle Controls, we have several of them in stock. <Essentially, that's what Gilbert did with their electronic whistle control. It was a vacuum tube oscillator mounted in a metal case about the size of a medium power AF transformer, that generated a signal of about 600 Hz. The signal was inserted into the power waveform by running track power through a coupling transformer within the case. The controller apparently wasn't too popular. > Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13293	From: Peck	Date: 5/19/2001
Subject: Re: Website sales list, & CAN MOTORS

Well-- We've finally got around to getting our Equipment Sales List posted on our website!!!! A long time coming, but it's there.........and it gets updated and expanded several times each week. We have a TON (probably literally!) of equipment to be added to the list as we process it....just need the time to do so....... so that's why it expands and changes every 3-4 nights, along with deleting sold items. So we encourage you to check it out with regularity. If you have trouble accessing it, let us know. We tried several different methods which didn't work for everyone. So far, this one seems OK. Next project, this summer, is our Parts Catalog on-line!!!! We ALSO have the new AF Conversion Can Motors added to the website, including photos. They are slick units, require no drilling, and no permanent modification to your engines. They're installed in minutes! These units are available through S-n-S (the manufacturer), or through us, at the same price. Any dealer inquiries about these units should be directed to Port Lines. Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13294	From: Rick Evans	Date: 5/19/2001
Subject: Re: GG-1 episode & circus loco.....

And to top it all off,....in the little description he had,..talk about BAD typing!! A five year old could do better! Quick! Bring me a five year old!! Found me a circus loco over a Mark Preman's site,..a 356 repaint, (and yellow at that) and numbered 353. Now maybe my circus train can actually travel to another town now!! Hope everyone has a great weekend!! Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13295	From: Al Paolozzi	Date: 5/19/2001
Subject: Re: Touch Up Paint

The paint is a Krylon 1613 Semi Flat Black. It is as close a steamer, black match as you will probably find. Al Paolozzi ----- Original Message ----- From: "The Reis's" <finnhill@...> To: "John Harvey" <brigadie@...>; <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 9:25 PM Subject: RE: [S-Trains] Touch Up Paint > A paint match that I have used is some of the > Krylon spray SATIN blacks. Not perfect but match > the sheen better than most anything. I have used > this for chips by spraying some in the paint cap > and then dabbing it on the chip with a very small > paintbrush or even a toothpick. Usually the chip > leaves a small recess which you can fill up. For > a large area you would feather in the area and > spray it, but a small chip or scratch you can just > drop a little bit of thin paint and it will > usually fill in pretty well. > > Good luck > > Eric Reis > Kenmore, Wa. > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Harvey > [mailto:brigadie@...] > Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 7:58 PM > To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [S-Trains] Touch Up Paint > > I have quite a few "ancient" AF diecast steamers > which I am in the process > of restoring. Does anyone have a "sure fire" > method of touching up the > nicks and scratches in the black finish. I don't > really want to completely > strip and repaint > them. How about lampblack or stove polish? Can > anyone recommend an exact > paint match? > > Regards, > > John Harvey > e-mail: brigadie@... > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: > http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories > too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13296	From: sgriggs@umich.edu	Date: 5/19/2001
Subject: Re: Re; whistle controls

> Essentially, that's what Gilbert did with their electronic whistle > control. It was a vacuum tube oscillator mounted in a metal case > about the size of a medium power AF transformer, that generated a > signal of about 600 Hz. The signal was inserted into the power > waveform by running track power through a coupling transformer within > the case. The controller apparently wasn't too popular. I've seen a > few for sale at toy train shows, usually for around $25. They always > seem to be in excellent shape, as if they've seen little or no use. > > > Chuck F. I've never heard one of the 1950 electronic whistles. Can someone compare their performance with that produced by the 708 air chime whistle control from 1951-1954? Does the plug-in version produce a more realistic whistle sound?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13297	From: Wayne and Alice Beachy	Date: 5/19/2001
Subject: New Vehicle Sets

Hi All, I was in a Toys R Us today and found two new Johnny Lightning car sets in 1/64th. One was call "The Point", and the other was called "Mearle's Diner". The point has a police officer in a 63 Ford (I think) checking out a hot rod parked at a necking spot. Figures include the cop with flashlight in hand and two kids watching. The Diner has a 53 Pink Corvette and a hot rod. Figures include a car-hop waitress, a girl with pony tail and 50s style dress and young man. These sets were $8.00 at Toys R Us. Well worth the price for the two cars and three 1/64th figures. Let me know if you find any different sets. Waiting for my F3s in Virginia. Wayne Beachy Atlantic Coast S Gaugers Virginia Central Division [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13298	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 5/19/2001
Subject: GG-1 episode

Trying to force a deal based on an obvious typographical error is ungentlemanly to say the least. This is exactly the type of collector behavior I can't stand -- trying to turn playing with electric trains into a game with "winners" and "losers". Sometimes posting to this list is like trying to talk to a brick. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13299	From: Walt Danylak	Date: 5/20/2001
Subject: Need a Computer? (Commercial Announcement)

For those of you who know me, many also know that I've worked for Radio Shack Service since BC (before computers). About 4 years ago Radio Shack started selling Compaq computers. Recently Radio Shack Service has been authorized by Compaq to remanufacture their returned computers for resale. Generally, these computers are NOT for sale at Radio Shack stores, but are available through Radio Shack Service. Many different models are available and inventory changes daily. Both desktop and laptop computers are available. As an example, a desktop model with a 500- 700 MHZ processor, 10-20 MB hard drive, CDROM drive and 64-128 MB of ram, sells for about $400.00. No, there's no need to sign up with an Internet service for 3 years, that's the price. Many options are available including faster processors, more memory, CDRW, DVD, etc. It all depends on the model. All models come with a 1-year warranty from Compaq. Also available are "no hassle" extended service plans. Simply bring your computer into ANY Radio Shack store for service. You NEVER need to make a phone call to get authorization for a repair. As an added bonus, if you purchase a monitor, that's also covered at no additional cost! For additional information, or if you have any questions, send an email, marked to Ed's attention, to: www.sc407117@... If you prefer, you can phone 518-456-7816. Ask to speak to Ed. Business hours are Monday through Friday, 8:00 am until 5:00 pm EDT. Walt Danylak

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13300	From: Peck	Date: 5/20/2001
Subject: Re: Train-Enamel paints

Re: TrainEnamel paints.......... We stock all of these for AF restorations. They are about the only line of custom paints available for AF. Some colors are better matches than others. The problem is that your original equipment will undoubtedly have experienced some fading over the years. So, no matter how good a color match is in a new paint, it is probably not going to produce very satisfactory results in a "touch-up". For overall repaints, it is a different matter, but I rarely recommend them for touchups (BTW---neither does the manufacturer). Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13301	From: Douglass Allen	Date: 5/20/2001
Subject: e-bay

I watch all this foofurah over e-bay with detached bemusement. I'm not going to comment after all the flak I got the last time on the subject. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13302	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 5/20/2001
Subject: train enamel

I have had extremely poor results with at least four different colors of train enamel, both spray and jar. It takes many and/or thick coats to get depth of color, which obscures detail. The colors are not close matches to the originals -- the Royal Blue is expecially bad. It dries slowly and not well. And it is much glossier than Flyer finishes. My friends have had similar results with and opinions of it. It is not a good idea to use this stuff on American Flyer S gauge trains. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13303	From: castironv8@aol.com	Date: 5/20/2001
Subject: train enamel

Re: Train Enamel. I have only used one color of Train Enamel, the 762 Accessory Green. My experience was similar to Tom Jarcho's. Lots of coats, because it has a tendency to run. You need to apply a bunch of thin coats to avoid running and to get coverage. The match is not good when comparing the Train Enamel repaint to an original Flyer piece. If you know anything about Flyer, you don't even have to hold the repaint and an original Gilbert piece side by side to tell the difference. It's just not right. You'll know that it is not right before your even finished. I followed all of the instructions on the can precisely, including the primer color on separate pieces at different times. It is a let down. I would be willing to pay $10 a can plus S&H if the stuff matched better. Maybe I'm doing something wrong? Anyone got an Accessory Green out there??? Regards, Curtis Dorwart [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13304	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 5/20/2001
Subject: Re: train enamel

I guess after all this I can throw in my thoughts. I use Krylon or Testors model spray paints that come close to Flyer. I have also had poor results with "Train Enamel". Check out my 356 Circus Engine repaint at http://www.geocities.com/glenn_ritter "My Model Railroad" using Testors. Glenn jarcho@... wrote: I have had extremely poor results with at least four different colors of train enamel, both spray and jar. It takes many and/or thick coats to get depth of color, which obscures detail. The colors are not close matches to the originals -- the Royal Blue is expecially bad. It dries slowly and not well. And it is much glossier than Flyer finishes. My friends have had similar results with and opinions of it. It is not a good idea to use this stuff on American Flyer S gauge trains. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13305	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 5/20/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, May 20, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13306	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 5/20/2001
Subject: Chat Trouble

Yahoo club chat seems to only support Internet Explorer not Netscape Browser?? http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13307	From: eddie rickenbacker	Date: 5/20/2001
Subject: classic model train paints

Problems with Classic Model Train paints can be lessened by thinning it with Humbrol thinner.Wonderful stuff-get it from Squadron Shop. It also is important to spray Classic on HOT days-yeah, I'm kind of weather dependent. Also, the best thing to set the paint is to bake it. Don't even think about doing this with plastic !! 150-180 for 45 minutes does the trick-DON'T DO THIS IN A GAS OVEN!!!-put aluminium foil above and below the part so it doesn't get a burn from the heating element. A match is, like Doug says,better with some colors than others. It is important to do a whole set rather than one item(this applies more to tinplate) for good color co-ordination.BTW the Humbrol thinner will allow you to layer on the thin coats and dtill get good surface definition. Baking Krylon gives a really HARD finish-you likely will never get a chip around a screwhole again if the shell was grit blasted, Kryloned, and baked.An alternative to baking in the oven is to build a force drying box. an old locker or crate is all you need, plus two, two-bulb light sockets(the ones like in aquarium hoods)one set goes on top, one on the bottom, make 4 quarter size vent holes(2 upper, 2 lower), and leave the boiler in it for 4 hours-your times will vary according to bulb wattage. Hope this helps-john marganski __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13308	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 5/20/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1018

In a message dated 05/18/2001 2:36:45 AM Mountain Daylight Time, S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes: > From: "John Harvey" <brigadie@...> > Subject: Can Motors for AF > > A word from downunder. I have just installed Steve Blackburn's can motors > in two of my ancient diecast AF steamers. They came complete with a "worm" > and dropped straight in. A perfect fit! The improvement in slow speed > performance was amazing. Just like a heart transplant! > > Kind Regards, > > John Harvey > Just a response note to all of the buyers and prospective buyers of these motors. Since I have been doing all the e-mailing of the data on these motors, people have been calling them "my" motors. They are in fact the product of myself and my partner Sam Rapp. We go by the name of S-n'-S Trains. These were developed equally by us and I don't want the opinion out there that they are "my" motors. Yes, we are now in the beginning stages of developing a replacement can motor for Flyer diesels. When we are satisfied that we have a foolproof one we will advertise here first. Thanks for all the kind words so far on this product. Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13309	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 5/20/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1018

Steve wrote... >Yes, we are now in the beginning stages of developing a replacement >can motor >for Flyer diesels. When we are satisfied that we have a foolproof >one we will advertise here first. What, Steve, you're saying there are so many fools here, we need foolproof stuff? :^) Naw, I'm just teazin'. Actually, a replacement diesel can motor sounds like a promising idea. While you're in the design stage, you might want to consider making such a replacement also capable of replacing Lionel's jury- rigged can motor installation used in post-Gilbert diesels. It would really be nice to get rid of that annoying whine in my GP20. Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13310	From: Alan C Udy	Date: 5/21/2001
Subject: Wrinkle Finish

There have been some questions and techniques discussed lately. I just ran across an advertisement for a product that may just do the job. The ad is in May 2000 "THIS OLD HOUSE," page 143. The manufacturer is Rustoleum, and I'm sure that is a registered trademark. The ad shows a spray can of RUST-OLEUM TEXTURED FINE TEXTURED FINISH Distinctive Durable Coating (They are pitching it for outdoor furniture). The ad states it is available in most popular colors, but I think they never thought to have an American Flyer green in their line. Getting the wrinkle right is first, a top coat of the right color can follow. I haven't found it here in the mountain tops, but where summer is already established, maybe it is out there. Hopefully, someone will try a can and provide us all with a product report. Alan Udy RMHRS Idaho Falls, ID ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13311	From: Douglass Allen	Date: 5/21/2001
Subject: Paint

I found a perfect match for American Flyer circus red: Sherwin Williams Safety Red 140-0548; in 12 oz. spray cans. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13312	From: TPDavis7@aol.com	Date: 5/21/2001
Subject: Items for sale, downsizing my collection

The following items are for sale and are in excellent condition: 1. American Models FP-7, PRR, green, DC, high-rail wheels w/AF compatible dummy couplers or scale wheels w/American Models "Snap-Lock" scale couplers, also will include an extra FP-7 body shell (painted BN green and lettered for my Marlyand Central RR).................................................$125.00. 2. American Models GG-1, PRR,green, 5 stripe, loco # 4935, DC, scale wheels, American Models "Snap Lock" scale couplers or KD's 802..................$180.00. 3. American Models 5 car ,70' heavywt. passenger car set, PRR, includes 1 Baggage Car, 1 RPO Car, 1 Combine Car, 1 Coach Car and 1 Observation Car. All of the cars including the baggage car are lighted, scale wheels with the American Models truck mounted scale size couplers or hi-rail wheel sets with the American Models, truck mounted, American Flyer compatible, operating couplers.....$220.00. Buyer to pay $3.50 for postage, I will pay for the insurance. Outside of the lower 48 postage will have to be adjusted as necessary. Thanks, Tom Davis, 3312 Rhett Butler Place, Charlotte, NC, 28270-4422, 704-845-8468 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13313	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 5/21/2001
Subject: Baking Paint

A few years ago I asked the people at Winross how they got they got their paints so nice and hard. The answer (as previously noted here) was to bake at 200' - 220'F for 15 - 20 minutes. I started doing this with the Testors paint on my toy soldiers and it worked like a charm. A toaster oven is a really nice tool for baking small things such as soldiers and trains. You can pick a used one up for $2-5 at garage sales, Salvation Army/VOA, etc. You may want to calibrate the temperature setting with an oven thermometer to be sure that you are where you want to be temperature wise. I keep one by the painting bench where I pop things in for 20 minutes, and then they're ready for the next coat. They come in a variety of sizes, so if you need a taller/longer one, look for one that fits your requirements. This way you can also avoid complaints about funny smells in the kitchen. Regards, Roger Delthony

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13314	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 5/21/2001
Subject: Enhorning

Greetings, As I hope all are now aware, the Museum and Education Committee of The National Toy Train Museum, under the direction of Committee Chairman Gary Lavinus now has the "Enhorning" items that Bill Lane had. NOW Gary would like to explore the display possibilities and needs your help. Seeking any "Enhorning" paper, includ- ing, but not limited to: catalogs, flyers, adv sheets, instruction sheets, in short, any- thing we can use to build an interesting and informative display. Most of what we received was undecorated, so we need to know if they were factory finished or not. May be looking for assorted truck parts, etc. If you can and wish to help, please contact me, WJJIM@..., to let me know what you have or can do. Hopefully, one of you will post this to the S-scale group, as I have not been able to access since the Yahoo! invasion ( and how do you contact Yahoo!) Thank You Jim Lyle [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13315	From: aarmstro@slonet.org	Date: 5/21/2001
Subject: Flyer Transformer #5

Hello - I am a short-time member on this list and I hope I don't violate any protocol with this post. I was cleaning out my garage (really!) when I found an American Flyer transformer. I don't know how it got there - I have never owned AF stuff - perhaps a gift from a yard-sale junkie friend? It is oval shape with the control bar on top painted red. The top rim is embossed sith "stop" on the left and multiples of ten up to 100 across the top. Printing - top to bottom on the top surface is: miles per hour 7-15 volts No. 5 transformer AMERICAN FLYER Mfg. by THE A.C.GILBERT CO. NEW HAVEN CONN. U.S.A. 50 watts 110 - 120 volts 60 cycles A.C.ONLY The control "knob" is an "L" shaped red bar across the top, pivoted with a vertical pivot, and extending down the near side. On the far side are three screw terminals. the left (looking from the rear) is labeled "base post" an arrow from the left to the center post is marked "7 to 15 volts" an arrow from the left post to the right post is labeled "15 volts only". There are two wires from the right side but they look too worn and decayed for me to want to connect them to 110 volts. If you would like to have this and are an NASG member listed in the August 2000 Digest send me an email off-list. I will wait a week and, if more than one person responds, I will select one at random and mail him the transformer. You can send me the postage costwhen you get the transformer. Art Armstrong aarmstro@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13316	From: Trbngs@cs.com	Date: 5/21/2001
Subject: Re: Baking Paint

--- In S-Trains@y..., Roger Delthony <rpd3@e...> wrote: > A few years ago I asked the people at Winross how they got they got > their paints so nice and hard. The answer (as previously noted here) > was to bake at 200' - 220'F for 15 - 20 minutes. I started doing this > with the Testors paint on my toy soldiers and it worked like a charm. > EXCEPT ON PLASTIC MODELS --- 220'+ will quickly melt any plastic model !

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13317	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 5/21/2001
Subject: stripping paint

I have a 732 mail car that has been painted .What is the safest way to remove the paint without hurting the car?Thanks in advance,Keith. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13318	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 5/21/2001
Subject: stripping paint

I have a 732 operating baggage car that has been painted .What is the safest way to remove the paint without hurting the car?Thanks in advance,Keith. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13319	From: Peck	Date: 5/21/2001
Subject: Re: pAINTS

I am presently working with a new manufacturer on a line of AF repro colors which I hope will prove better than the Train Enamel colors. The prior comments about Accessory Green are very true....it is WAY too light in color. In fact, I recommend the Lioenl 145 Accessory green instead. It is a bit brighter, but a closer color match. At any rate, as soon as we have something to announce on these new paints, I'll post it here. Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13320	From: roninscho9@yahoo.com	Date: 5/21/2001
Subject: stripping paint

the only thing I have had any luck with is automobile brake fluid but first test this by applying some on a small area on the inside of the car body as this can react to some early Gilbert plastics 1946to 1948 by turning it to mush most later plastics can tollerate this without any trouble Ron Inscho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13322	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 5/22/2001
Subject: Re: stripping paint

For stripping plastic stuff, I use Easy Off oven cleaner (yellow label, not blue). Give the carbody a good heavy coat of EO (I assume you have disassembled the car), and let it sit for 10-15 minutes. Then hose it off with water. It may take two or three treatments to get all of the paint off. BTW, all this is done outside, of course, following all safety precautions on the label, yada-yada, etc. Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13323	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 5/22/2001
Subject: Layout Pix

Well, golly. There doesn't seem to be any big rush to fill the 13+ Mb of space left in the S Trains files, so I uploaded a bunch of images showing our modular layout as it appeared in 1998. The occasion was a holiday toy train display in a local mall. This exciting S gauge extravaganza can be viewed at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/The%20C%2BD%20System% 201998/ Note: Somthing tells me that link didn't wrap right. Cutting and pasting the link may be necessary. Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13324	From: jbs@misi.org	Date: 5/22/2001
Subject: Stripping paint

I have had good luck soaking the plastic part in a concentrated solution of Tide (1-2 scoops of powder per gallon). After a day or two in the soak a scrub brush removes any remaining paint.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13325	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 5/22/2001
Subject: Convention

Since the NASG convention is only 2 months away, I wanted to extend an invitation to any folks who may want to visit my layout. I plan to take the entire week off and travel to the convention on Wednesday, the 25th. The open days would then be Saturday, Sunday, Monday and Tuesday. The hours are pretty much open to accommodate the travelers to the convention. All I need is a little warning in case I'm running an errand or something. My house is just off Exit #15 of the PA Turnpike, about 2 ½ hours from Scranton. East Broad Top is only an additional half hour from my house, so a trip over to here from Scranton would not be out of the question. On the way over you could also see the Enola Yards and Rockville Bridge. If you're not familiar with the Penn Western, there are lots of pictures at: http://s-scaletrains.com/pwrr/pwpics.htm The main web sites are: http://www.innernet.net/rhoffman http://www.s-scaletrains.com/pwrr If you are interested, just contact me off-line. Roy

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13326	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 5/22/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1022

I am in the process of repairing a 644 and a 944 crane, and would trade A.F. parts, etc for boom and pulley assembles (on boom and top of cab)in salvageable condition. Also I have some extra die cast body and cabs. Please contact me off line if you are interested. Thank you Jerry grdobbs@... ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13327	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 5/22/2001
Subject: Re: Enhorning

Walt, My address is WJJIM@... Jim Lyle [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13328	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/22/2001
Subject: The CSX runaway train--Management's response--HUMOR

this was posted on the toytrains list, was too good to just leave it there! S' David D. "Hah hah hah! I can visualize the scene taking place at CSX headquarters.... CEO: "You mean that train went 70 miles with no one on board?" Yes-man: "Yup." CEO: "No engineer, no conductor, no one?" Yes-man: "Yup." CEO: "And nothing bad happened?" Yes-man: "Uh-huh." CEO: "Well what are we doing with all those engineers on the payroll?" Yes-man: "I Don't know." CEO: "Can't we just operate the trains unmanned from terminal to terminal, and have an engine and a two-man crew at each end to drag the train to a stop?" Yes-man: "I guess so. It worked yesterday."

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13329	From: Eugene Steffan	Date: 5/22/2001
Subject: A/F Paint Color Match

Has anyone tried Home Depote's or Lowe's computer color match system for A/F paints? I tried it years ago for matching sun faded house paint and it worked perfectly. Gene

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13330	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 5/22/2001
Subject: Re: A/F Paint Color Match

Problem with that is it is only good for the latex or oil base house paints. You can, however, go to an automotive paint supply place or some of the larger paint suppliers like Sherwin Williams who have the ability to match and mix ENAMEL paints. I had this done for the 785 coal loader dark beige color. Roger Petrella Franktown, CO Eugene Steffan wrote: > Has anyone tried Home Depote's or Lowe's computer color match system for > A/F paints? I tried it years ago for matching sun faded house paint and > it worked perfectly. > Gene > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13331	From: The Reis's	Date: 5/22/2001
Subject: Lionel Flyer pass cars and PA's for sale

I have 6 lionel Flyer California Zephyr Passenger cars for sale. 2 each Dome Silver Palace 2 each Dome Silver Dollar 2 each Diner Silver Platter All in original boxes and like new $40 each or all 6 for $225 plus postage I also have an A-B-A set of S-Helper P-A�s in Pennsy Tuscan, High-Rail AC. A � Powered B - Dummy no sound A - Dummy All in SHS Box in Excellent condition Set for $325 plus postage. Please contact me off list if interested Thanks; Eric Reis Kenmore, Washington. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13332	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 5/22/2001
Subject: HO FLYER

Any one out there have an ho Flyer price guide?Help!! Keith _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13333	From: John Harvey	Date: 5/23/2001
Subject: Touch Up Paints

Many thanks for all the excellent ideas for matching the color of my diecast steamers. I'll try a few and let you know what happens! Kind Regards, John Harvey brigadie@... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13334	From: rgajnak@earthlink.net	Date: 5/23/2001
Subject: AM E-8

Hey guys, AM's posted information about the E-8 on their web page at: http://americanmodels.com/locos/e-8.html Includes description, price info and artwork for roadnames. No photo's yet. Be seeing you... Rich G. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13335	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/23/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] The CSX runaway train--Management's response--HUMOR

60 minuts 2 had a remark about this last night. At the end, the guy that always has something smart to say, said " there was a run away train the other day with no engineer on board. Seems he left the train to throw a switch. This is for all engineers. When you leave your engine, set the brakes or put your engine in park." Larry Jackman David Dewey wrote: > > this was posted on the toytrains list, was too good to just leave it

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13336	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 5/23/2001
Subject: JOE's Train Repair

Does any one have the email address for Joe's Train Repair? I have lost it in a computer crash. Thanks for your help. Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13337	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 5/23/2001
Subject: Re: JOE's Train Repair

-- Try: joestrainrepair@... - In S-Trains@y..., kite1@s... wrote: > Does any one have the email address for Joe's Train Repair? I have lost it in a > computer crash. Thanks for your help. Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13338	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 5/23/2001
Subject: TT upstages S-gauge!

My family and I went to Williamsburg, VA this past Fri-Mon and had a ball. Part of the unexpected fun was the Carstens Collection of Toy Trains and MTH operating layout at the Abby Aldrich Museum of Folk Art in Williamsburg. It was a very interesting display primarily focused on Lionel, American Flyer, Ives, Marklin and other Standard and O gauge prewar trains. The operating layout was multilevel, well done, and located in the center of the room surrounded by static displays of classics. My biggest disappointment was the display showing different toy train gauges. They had an example of Std, O, HO, TT, N and Z, but no S. Get that, TT, but not even a mention of S! AAAARGH! At least the placard describing American Flyer mentioned that Gilbert eventually manufactured HO and S. CSX and Amtrak actively use a line adjacent Williamsburg. My wife booked a room at the Patrick Henry right across the street from historic Wmsburg and right along the tracks. She even requested an upper room with a "view of the trains". How cool. We saw many long unit trains of hoppers full of coal, and several passenger trains from our perch. A few appeared to have no one driving.....hmmmm. The really odd part was they never sounded their horns. While there was no crossroad right there near the motel, there were a few not far away, and yet we never heard them honk. Wonder if that's due to some kind of Wmsburg ordnance or what. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13339	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 5/23/2001
Subject: Re: JOE's Train Repair

-- Sorry for not looking at what I was pasting. try: joestrainrepair@... > > - In S-Trains@y..., kite1@s... wrote: > > Does any one have the email address for Joe's Train Repair? I have > lost it in a > > computer crash. Thanks for your help. Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13340	From: Douglass Allen	Date: 5/23/2001
Subject: S-Fest Patches

S-Fest patches wanted: 1st, 9th, 21st, & 23rd. Have to trade: 16th, 18th, 19th, 25th. Just call me Patches. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13341	From: paul gibson	Date: 5/23/2001
Subject: Railpub May 15 price list

The May 15 price list (#90) has been posted to our website. Click on this link to go directly to the site: http://www.railpub.com If your web browser has difficulty getting you into the May price list, try this alternate web address, which will take you directly to the first page: http://www.railpub.com/pricelists/pricelist90.pdf Among the items this month are the Hertz books: Advanced Model Railroading, Complete Book of Model Railroading, and New Roads to Adventure in Model Railroading. Also the books Model Railroad Engineering(1942), Model Railway Encyclopedia(1950) and Model Railway Engines(Brit.) This is in addition to our regular offering of back issues from over 125 rail related magazines titles, and hundreds of books on rail, logging, mining, steel/iron, marine and industrial subjects. Thanks for taking a look. Paul Gibson

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13342	From: Wayne Broadhead	Date: 5/23/2001
Subject: Re: HO FLYER

I have one Keith what do you need? Keith Kuzma wrote: > > Any one out there have an ho Flyer price guide?Help!! Keith > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13343	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 5/23/2001
Subject: LTI Silver Flash set

For sale: 6-49606 LTI Silver Flash set plus extra 6-48942 Vista Dome with matching chestnut band. This set has been opened, runs well, is complete, and is in like new condition with all boxes. This set will provide its new owner with a handsome Alco PA-PB plus four car set to operate and enjoy. Being sold because of the recent purchase of the New Haven Gilbert version. $460.00 plus shipping. This item will not be placed on eBay but is being placed in the next TCA Headquarters News. If interested, please contact via e-mail off line. Thanks. Bob Bubeck NASG 95R0085C TCA 94-38531

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13344	From: Peck	Date: 5/23/2001
Subject: Re: HO Flyer

<Any one out there have an ho Flyer price guide?Help!! Keith > Yes.......softcover; $10.00 + sh. Descriptions, variations, values, etc. No pix. Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13345	From: M.McConnell	Date: 5/23/2001
Subject: Memorial Day Weekend

This weekend, there will be a Memorial Day event at Steamtown celebrating the contribution of trains to the war effort. The event starts Saturday and runs through Monday. For the third year, the South Jersey S Gaugers will be participating in the celebration by displaying our portable layout in the roundhouse (in the first bay). As in previous years, we re-decorate our layout in a WWII theme for the event and run lots of rolling stock with military loads (although this year, we may not run our special train of rocket launchers. . .as we discovered the only direct hits were on the steam engine itself.) If anyone is planning to attend (perhaps as a dry-run for the NASG Convention?) please stop by and pay a visit. We're always glad to discuss S community events with fellow S gaugers. The layout will be constantly manned throughout the weekend - and we're just chomping at the bit to talk about our plans for our new "improved" portable layout! If you want to see pictures of last year's escapades - stop by our WebSite at: http://www.trainweb.org/sjsg/events/steamtwn00/nwsevnt0.htm Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13346	From: Al	Date: 5/24/2001
Subject: Fun & Thrills video

Has anyone heard when the TM Fun and Thrills video - Part 2 - will be available?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13347	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 5/24/2001
Subject: Vacation

Hi everybody. Pheeeeew! We've been cranking out can motors like crazy. Sam and I are leaving today for British Columbia for a week to ride the "Cariboo Steam Special." Please hold all emails until May 30th. We ran out of the Superflex wire that we supply with the can motor kits so some of you will be slow in getting your motors. I'm sure the wire we ordered will be here by the time we get back. Thanks again for all the responses. Way beyond our imagination. Steve & Sam.....S-n'-S Trains Boise, Idaho TCA, NASG, RMHR [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13348	From: Al	Date: 5/24/2001
Subject: Home Videos of Layouts

Remember, way back in October of 2000, Wayne Broadhead made the statement: "Maybe someone else out there knows how to shoot professional video camera footage, and can step in and give us something that is good." And Rick Evans said: "Heck,...I'd be happy just to see someone's home videos of their layout!! Maybe we could get everyone to video tape their own layouts and then find someone with the right equipment and put it all together! Quality wouldn't be all that great, but just the fact they were all home videos of their layouts to share with others. I, for fun, have shot some video of my small layout, and it didn't look all that bad! And I was hand holding the camera, using my tripod would be MUCH better! Hmmmm....maybe we could start somethin' here." So where are all those videos of layouts in action??? Steve Blackburn, to date, has been the only man to produce new video footage for those of us interested in S gauge/S scale/AF train layouts. He has a 2nd video in the works. Not only videos but Steve and his friend have come up with replacement motors for AF steam engines (DC and AC versions) and is working on replacement motors for AF diesels. Where are all those other men who were going to put forth videos for us to enjoy??? We need to give recognition to those people who have the passion for helping the rest of us enjoy this wonderful hobby. Maybe Paul York could set up an area to recognize those people who have developed some product or idea to help this hobby along. This should include videos, layout designs (that includes Paul's layout he built earlier this year), circuitry for replacing/repairing old accessories, better power pickups, replacement motors (include Fred Jester here also), repair ideas/parts that work better than factory originals, designs in track (whatever happened to the fellow who designed the 30 degree crossover - we need this posted to this list along with the design), where to find great ideas from magazines (S Gauge Herald and S Gaugian), etc. Let's quit squabbling over Ebay listings, personalities, etc,. We don't need bad feelings between members of S-Trains. Let's feel good about this hobby. Let's give some praise to those who are trying to better it with their ideas, products, designs. I believe we should nominate these individuals to this listing so anyone looking at Paul's S-Trains web site can see innovations made by individuals not associated with any company. We should also have snail-mail and e-mail addresses and phone numbers so they can be contacted if more information is needed on how their ideas and designs work or how to purchase their goods. Let's give these people the credit they deserve. What do you think??? Al Rawdon

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13349	From: Wayne Broadhead	Date: 5/24/2001
Subject: Re: Fun & Thrills video

YES....I HEARD FROM TM IT WOULD BE 2001 Al wrote: > > Has anyone heard when the TM Fun and Thrills video - Part 2 - will be > available? > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13350	From: John Foley	Date: 5/24/2001
Subject: Dispatch Ads

Hi Folks If you are planning on doing on Booster ad in the August Dispatch, please send it to Jeff Madden at 438 Bron Derw Ct. Wales, WI. 53183 E-mail nasgdispatch@... Its $10 each or $20 for a double size ad. Make check out to NASG John Foley

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13351	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 5/24/2001
Subject: S-trains in New Orleans

I will be in New Orleans from June 1st through the 9th. Anyone know of any good train shops in the vicinity? Particularly looking for American Flyer stuff, but any trains will do. Roger Petrella Franktown, CO

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13352	From: mlmarmer	Date: 5/24/2001
Subject: Re: S-trains in New Orleans

Roger, Try www.hobbyretailer.com to search the city. There was two shoppe's showing for New Orleans. And type in LA for the state for a complete search. Of course, check out the phone book when you get in. My question to you is, why would anyone want to leave pleasent Colorado and the Rockies for awful disguisting New Orleans! My wife was in New Orleans last year for work and it was awful unless you like the smell of urine, seeing drunks and tranvesites!! Me, I'll take the mountains! At least there is Minor League Baseball there in New Orleans and Alligators! Try the alligator tail sandwiches! Baton Rouge is a hour away and may have some train Shoppe's also. My wife was just in Golden, Colorado for business and it was a nice small town. Good luck with your search and have a great time, Mike Marmer Germantown, Maryland

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13353	From: Alex	Date: 5/24/2001
Subject: Snowplow and roundhouse photos posted

Thanks to list member Michael Greene, my recent photos of the Guilford roundhouse and old snowplows are now on-line. Michael kindly scanned the photos and uploaded them to the Files area of the S-Trains lists in a folder called Alex Mendelsohn's Photos. -- Alex in Kennebunk, Maine

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13354	From: Karl Raab	Date: 5/25/2001
Subject: All Aboard Yahoo Club

Hi all Just a quick note: A Yahoo club-site has been established recently at http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/allaboardsets for fans of American Flyer All Aboard Panel sets, and Pikemaster equipment. You might drop by for the fun of it and take a look... The site started regarding the very rare "L" floor plan house that was cataloged as part of the whistle panel. I have speculated about it's similarity to a Plasticville New England Ranch House #1701. We are seeking photo's of any originals, beyond those published in the '65 catalog, or box cover artwork by A.C.Gilbert, Or, better yet information from someone that is lucky enough to actually own one.. All comments, information, theories..are welcome. Thanx...Karl

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13355	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 5/25/2001
Subject: Re: S-trains in New Orleans

Mike: Sounds like your wife hung out in the seedy part of the French Quarter from your description of the city. Roger, New Orleans is a beautiful historic city. The St Charles street car line is the oldest operating passenger railway line in the USA. The journey will take you past some of the most magnificent mansions, Audubon Park, as well as Tulane and Loyola Universities. You can buy an all day pass valid on all transit lines from the operator as you board for $4. You will also find the Riverfront streetcar line offers a scenic ride from the French Market to the Riverwalk. The streetcar line on Canal Street has just been put back in service and you can ride that too. Union Passenger Station offers a chance to view Superliners and Viewliners on the Crescent, City of New Orleans and the Sunset Limited. New Orleans also has its own Railroad - the New Orleans Public Belt Railway which runs along the Mississippi. As far as hobby shops, Hub Hobby on Broad Street is the oldest. Mainly HO stuff here I am afraid. Stay off of Bourbon Street in the French Quarter and you will miss the drunks, urine smell etc. Be prepared for HOT AND HUMID and dress as lightly as you can. Like any major cities, you need to watch where you go to avoid unsavory elements of society. A little care in planning and you will have a great time. Michael mlmarmer wrote: > Roger, > > Try www.hobbyretailer.com to search the city. There was two shoppe's > showing for New Orleans. And type in LA for the state for a complete > search. Of course, check out the phone book when you get in. > > My question to you is, why would anyone want to leave pleasent Colorado and > the Rockies for awful disguisting New Orleans! My wife was in New Orleans > last year for work and it was awful unless you like the smell of urine, > seeing drunks and tranvesites!! Me, I'll take the mountains! At least > there is Minor League Baseball there in New Orleans and Alligators! Try the > alligator tail sandwiches! > > Baton Rouge is a hour away and may have some train Shoppe's also. > > My wife was just in Golden, Colorado for business and it was a nice small > town. > > Good luck with your search and have a great time, > > Mike Marmer > Germantown, Maryland > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13356	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 5/25/2001
Subject: What is S's slice of the pie?

I recall reading somewhere that S had 3% of the model train market and O had 6%. But I have visited 3 hobby shops in the last couple of weeks, and they had little to no S. All 3 had O, but 2 of them had so much O that it looked like the shelves were about to crumble. And most of that was from MTH. So what are the real stats? Anyone care to offer an opinion? Peter Ervin Cumberland, MD

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13357	From: Michael Greene	Date: 5/25/2001
Subject: Re: What is S's slice of the pie?

Don't confuse shelf space with # or modelers...they can be very different. While there may be some relationship, I would propose it is not linear, nor consistent shop to shop. And some mannufacturers put a high premium on having more shelf space than their competitors, and some don't put as high a value on it... At 09:19 AM 5/25/2001 -0700, Peter Ervin wrote: >I recall reading somewhere that S had 3% of the model train market and O >had 6%. But I have visited 3 hobby shops in the last couple of weeks, and >they had little to no S. All 3 had O, but 2 of them had so much O that it >looked like the shelves were about to crumble. And most of that was from >MTH. So what are the real stats? Anyone care to offer an opinion?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13358	From: Robert Werre	Date: 5/25/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1025

> > > Remember, way back in October of 2000, Wayne Broadhead made the > statement: > > "Maybe someone else out there knows how to shoot professional video > camera > footage, and can step in and give us something that is good." > > And Rick Evans said: > > "Heck,...I'd be happy just to see someone's home videos of their > layout!! Maybe > we could get everyone to video tape their own layouts and then find > someone with > the right equipment and put it all together! Quality wouldn't be all > that great, but > just the fact they were all home videos of their layouts to share > with others. > > I, for fun, have shot some video of my small layout, and it didn't > look all that bad! > And I was hand holding the camera, using my tripod would be MUCH > better! > > Hmmmm....maybe we could start somethin' here." > > So where are all those videos of layouts in action??? > > Steve Blackburn, to date, has been the only man to produce new video > footage for those of us interested in S gauge/S scale/AF train layouts. > He has a 2nd video in the works. Not only videos but Steve and his > friend have come up with replacement motors for AF steam engines (DC and > AC versions) and is working on replacement motors for AF diesels. > > Where are all those other men who were going to put forth videos for us > to enjoy??? > > We need to give recognition to those people who have the passion for > helping the rest of us enjoy this wonderful hobby. Maybe Paul York > could set up an area to recognize those people who have developed some > product or idea to help this hobby along. This should include videos, > layout designs (that includes Paul's layout he built earlier this year), > circuitry for replacing/repairing old accessories, better power pickups, > replacement motors (include Fred Jester here also), repair ideas/parts > that work better than factory originals, designs in track (whatever > happened to the fellow who designed the 30 degree crossover - we need > this posted to this list along with the design), where to find great > ideas from magazines (S Gauge Herald and S Gaugian), etc. > > > What do you think??? > > Al Rawdon > > To All: Steve's video is (or will be) a great historical piece, but he was not the first by many years. Paul Riley from Peabody, Mass. shot and produced a video of several layouts sometime ending around 1990. I have a copy 'cause the early stages of my layout are on it. I don't think he sold enough copies for it to be well known. As I recall the video had some decent footage of several AF layouts and shows from the Eastern states from several past modelers. Also featured were the layouts in the Houston area (5 -I think) that were shot during the 1989 NMRA convention tours. Paul provided the narration for the footage although some of it is not totally accurate. Bob Werre

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13359	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 5/25/2001
Subject: Re: What is S's slice of the pie?

Hi Peter, Having been immersed in this for several years there are no real statistics. Model Railroader publishes stats based on their subscribers which you have quoted giving "HO" over 80%. Classic Toy Trains would lean more to "O". True "S" would comprise scale, Sn3, hi-rail and American Flyer. There are over 100,000 American Flyer owners that don't even get their trains out of the attic, basement, etc. There are no real statistics but finding "S" is worth the hunt. Seeing scale "S", Sn3, hi-rail and American Flyer in operation is a treat and building a layout is worth the time invested. Staying on the NPSG branchline of NASG track, Glenn NASG secretary Peter Ervin wrote: I recall reading somewhere that S had 3% of the model train market and O had 6%. But I have visited 3 hobby shops in the last couple of weeks, and they had little to no S. All 3 had O, but 2 of them had so much O that it looked like the shelves were about to crumble. And most of that was from MTH. So what are the real stats? Anyone care to offer an opinion? Peter Ervin Cumberland, MD

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13360	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 5/25/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, May 27, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13361	From: mlmarmer	Date: 5/25/2001
Subject: Re: S-trains in New Orleans

Hi Roger and Kite1(sorry I didn't see your name at the end of the email), I didn't mean to sound so down on New Orleans! But is was a bad first impression after hearing how wonderful NOLA was for my wife. Of course, everytown has it good and bad. We live 15 miles north of Washington, DC and it is amazing how sacred people are to come here to see the monuments and the museums! It is so safe in that area. It is the area in S.E. that has the problems of drugs and things. So I am sure New Orleans has lots of great things to see and do! My wife was staying near the airport and was at Tulane while doing work for Sodexho Marriott, a food contract services company. Tulane was wonderful. But everywhere her company went for dinner (Executive Chefs and Dieticians)and leisure activity, it was awful! One example, she saw a very nice B&B in town that was sounded by the smell of urine. Sorry. I know there is some nicer things to New Orleans. Didn't mean to sound so down on New Orleans, but my wife and I are into the outdoors like Acadia National Park, besides American Flyer Trains, and maybe towns like New Orleans isn't for us! But then Boston is a wonderful town with lots of train shops and things to see! We enjoyed Boston greatly. Kite 1 like you said, plan ahead. Fenway Park was wonderful, along with the subway. Roger good luck on your exam. I hope you find some AF trains. You never now what you might find when you are not looking. That is the fun part of traveling! I have found old Flyer in great shape in a hardware store, a B&B, and one time I got lost in Maine and found a train shop with tons of Flyer! Mike Marmer Germantown, MD

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13362	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 5/25/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1025

I agree with Mike Mermer, I spent some time last winter in New Orleans. Golden Colorado, is best, also it has a big train shop (Colorado Railroad museum) A must for any one visiting the Golden area. A lot of narrow gauge equipment + a large collection of Colorado railroadiana, Located across the street from COORS Brewery. Jerry Dobbs (5 minutes from Golden) ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13363	From: BENJAMIN PERRY	Date: 5/25/2001
Subject: PEARL HARBOR

Saw a movie trailer on TV for Pearl Harbor. It showed interior views of LA Union Station and platform scenes with stainless steel Budd CB&Q equipment in in the background. It had to be CBQ because a partial view of the nameboard said SILVER?????? so that would rule out the Santa Fe, as the Western Pacific and DRGW did not have stainless steel equipment in 1941. What was CBQ stainless equipment doing in LA in 1941? The Cal Zephyr was not running yet and it went to Oakland. Could not make out whether it was 74 ft or scale length :-]. On that fateful Dec 7th my dad was setting up my Marx Commodore Vanderbilt set in preparation for the forthcoming holiday season when the news came over the radio. I was a bit too young to fully understand it's meaning, but I will always remember the shock and concern of my parents who had lived through WW-I _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13364	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/25/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] PEARL HARBOR

I seem to recall the use of SF 3751 for this movie. Was towed to, I think, LA union station for the station shots. Most of this was done very quietly with little railfan publicity. There was a little bit of posting on it on the Trainorders Western RR BBS. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13365	From: John Harvey	Date: 5/26/2001
Subject: "The Boys' Railroad Club"

"The Boys' Railroad Club" was filmed in New York a little over 50 years ago. The "boys" would have been in their early teens. This would put them in their middle sixties now. Has anyone ever tried to track them down and record their first hand accounts of the filming of these shows? Regards, John Harvey brigadie@... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13366	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 5/26/2001
Subject: Re: PEARL HARBOR

Hi Ben, I have learned that movies are not always filmed in the city they portray. I have seen Philadelphia (my town) in movies or on TV but it was not a Philadelphia skyline. If it was old footage, they may have spliced in different cities as available. Glenn BENJAMIN PERRY wrote: > Saw a movie trailer on TV for Pearl Harbor. It showed interior views of LA > Union Station and platform scenes with stainless steel Budd CB&Q equipment > in in the background. It had to be CBQ because a partial view of the > nameboard said SILVER?????? so that would rule out the Santa Fe, as the > Western Pacific and DRGW did not have stainless steel equipment in 1941. > What was CBQ stainless equipment doing in LA in 1941? The Cal Zephyr was not > running yet and it went to Oakland. Could not make out whether it was 74 ft > or scale length :-]. > On that fateful Dec 7th my dad was setting up my Marx Commodore Vanderbilt > set in preparation for the forthcoming holiday season when the news came > over the radio. I was a bit too young to fully understand it's meaning, but > I will always remember the shock and concern of my parents who had lived > through WW-I > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13367	From: rgajnak@earthlink.net	Date: 5/26/2001
Subject: Re: PEARL HARBOR

Benjamin Perry wrote: Saw a movie trailer on TV for Pearl Harbor. It showed interior views of LA Union Station and platform scenes with stainless steel Budd CB Q equipment in in the background. It had to be CBQ because a partial view of the nameboard said SILVER?????? so that would rule out the Santa Fe, as the Western Pacific and DRGW did not have stainless steel equipment in 1941. What was CBQ stainless equipment doing in LA in 1941? The Cal Zephyr was not running yet and it went to Oakland. Could not make out whether it was 74 ft or scale length :-]. "This isn't railroading, this is insanity." --Silver Streak, RKO pictures, 1934 Yer not s'pposed to notice such things.........I read an article in the local paper that mentioned the studio heads, in order to save money, wanted to cut the scenes with FDR, with "what did he have to do with Pearl Harbor?" being the rational. SCHEEESH! Anyhow..your right. I caught the name when I saw a trailer and the car was the Silver Horizon, a CB Q Dome-Observation, built in 1948! They probably just wanted a pretty passenger car for "atmosphere." After all, everything in the movie is reported to be a backdrop (including the sneak attack) for a "love story." Studio guys aren't known for having a knowledge of railroads and railroading, just look at things like "Atomic Train" and other such silliness. Probably the best train movies are "Emperor of the North" and "The Train," with "Runaway Train" (NOT the made for TV movie), "Silver Streak" (1976, with Gene Wilder) and "Von Ryan's Express" as runners up. But, that's just my opinion Be seeing you... Rich G. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13368	From: busyboy	Date: 5/26/2001
Subject: Re: PEARL HARBOR

BENJAMIN PERRY pointed out the anachronistic incongruities of Hollywoodland: >Saw a movie trailer on TV for Pearl Harbor. It showed interior views of LA >Union Station and platform scenes with stainless steel Budd CB&Q equipment >in in the background. It had to be CBQ because a partial view of the >nameboard said SILVER?????? so that would rule out the Santa Fe, as the >Western Pacific and DRGW did not have stainless steel equipment in 1941. >What was CBQ stainless equipment doing in LA in 1941? The Cal Zephyr was not >running yet and it went to Oakland. Ben: These are not the only anachronisms. Check out the radar towers on some of the destroyers in the harbor. If that radar had been working, December 7th. would be the day we commemorate the destruction of the Japanese fleet! People who have been through such catastrophes vow to never forget. Then they have kids, and their kids have kids and then their kids have kids. After awhile, not forgetting is a purely emotional state of being where all the details are blurred. The thirties, the forties, the fifties, and the sixties begin to all merge into a unified mass known as the past. I have worked on many films and have pointed out such inaccuracies to the production designers, many of whom are old enough to know better. They all seem to share a common viewpoint; that no one will know the difference except a few afficionados, and that it is all "art", an impression of past events, a pastiche of memory. Experience tends to support this view because no substantive challenge from any published or broadcast reviews ever takes Hollywood to task for these errors. The flak that is now being directed at Disney for this movie seems to be aimed at the PC rewrite of actual historical events and at the cleanup of language (re: Japs, Gerrys, Nazis) designed to not offend potential Japanese and German audiences. Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13369	From: BENJAMIN PERRY	Date: 5/26/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: PEARL HARBOR

> > I agree with you selection of "train" movies. However, you forgot "The >Gray Fox" and "Breakheart Pass" with the latter being one of the most >suspenseful "train" movies ever made. > >Gerry > > Gerry; I too agree those are good selections, but I have always liked UNION PACIFIC. You almost have to be a railroad person to understand some of the terms used. Considering it was made more than 60 years ago, it's still a great one to watch. Pass the pop corn. Ben Perry > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13370	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 5/26/2001
Subject: Re: PEARL HARBOR

In a message dated 5/26/01 8:37:17 AM, rgajnak@... writes: << Probably the best train movies are "Emperor of the North" and "The Train," with "Runaway Train" (NOT the made for TV movie), "Silver Streak" (1976, with Gene Wilder) and "Von Ryan's Express" as runners up. But, that's just my opinion Be seeing you... Rich G. >> "The Train" is excellent, but there are a few more movies to add. "The General" with Buster Keaton is superb and to be preferred over Disney's "The Great Locomotive Chase". Also, the loading of a real circus train is shown (as backdrop in one scene) in southern Philadelphia on a PRR spur in DeMille's "The Greatest Show on Earth". :-) RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13371	From: David A. Highfield	Date: 5/26/2001
Subject: 1:64 toys for S Trains

Here are two great additions to any AF layout. 1. While looking at Johnny Lightening vehicles, I came across a Hotwheels 1:64 1948 Mecr Woodie. I found it at WalMart and it is a beauty. 2. Also look for a John Deere Harvesting Set. It includes a Combine, Flare Fox Wagon, 2510 Tractor, and a 1950 Chevy Grain Truck, all 1:64 (made in China). I don't know whether they are available in retail stores. Try www.deere.com Dave

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13372	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 5/26/2001
Subject: Re: PEARL HARBOR

Don't forget the original SILVER STREAK that starred the Burlington's Pioneer Zepher and made back in the 30's. It shows from time to time on AMC. rbubeck327@... wrote: > In a message dated 5/26/01 8:37:17 AM, rgajnak@... writes: > > << Probably the best train movies are "Emperor of the North" and "The Train," > with "Runaway Train" (NOT the made for TV movie), "Silver Streak" (1976, > with Gene Wilder) and "Von Ryan's Express" as runners up. But, that's just > my opinion > > Be seeing you... > > Rich G. >> > > "The Train" is excellent, but there are a few more movies to add. "The > General" with Buster Keaton is superb and to be preferred over Disney's "The > Great Locomotive Chase". Also, the loading of a real circus train is shown > (as backdrop in one scene) in southern Philadelphia on a PRR spur in > DeMille's "The Greatest Show on Earth". :-) > > RB > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13373	From: rgajnak@earthlink.net	Date: 5/26/2001
Subject: Movie Thoughts (was PEARL HARBOR)

See embedded comments below. Rbrubeck@*****.com wrote: "The Train" is excellent, but there are a few more movies to add. "The General" with Buster Keaton is superb and to be preferred over Disney's "The Great Locomotive Chase". Also, the loading of a real circus train is shown (as backdrop in one scene) in southern Philadelphia on a PRR spur in DeMille's "The Greatest Show on Earth". :-) Agree on "The General", have only a vague recollection on "Greatest Show on Earth." Disney's "Great Locomotive Chase" isn't bad, and can be classified above the average cinematic railroad fare. Gerry Evans wrote: I agree with you selection of "train" movies. However, you forgot "The Gray Fox" and "Breakheart Pass" with the latter being one of the most suspenseful "train" movies ever made. True, particularly the horse rustling scene in "Grey Fox" was one of the most understated and yet spectacular scenes shot. I found that excessive whistling in "Breakheart Pass" annoying and detracting from this fine movie. kite1@****.com wrote: Don't forget the original SILVER STREAK that starred the Burlington's Pioneer Zepher and made back in the 30's. It shows from time to time on AMC. The all time classic fun pot-boiler. I recall during the Pioneer Zephyr's 50th anniversary at Chicago's Museum of Science and Industry, there was a display of some of the props and stills from the movie. Also displayed was a letter by a railfan to the studio complaining about the "terrible railroading" that took place in "Silver Streak." The studio's response was that yes, while "Silver Steak" may have contained "terrible railroading," the movie was "swell melodrama." Indeed. Be seeing you... Rich G. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13374	From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton	Date: 5/26/2001
Subject: American Flyer Meeting at 2001 TCA Convention In Chattanooga

Hello, Fellow Flyer Fans, I am very pleased to report that a special session will be held on American Flyer Trains, for American Flyer fans, at this year's TCA Convention. The Convention will be held the week of June 24 in Chattanooga, TN, as most of you already know. A small group of us from the Atlanta area are putting together an afternoon session including discussion, videos, literature (and maybe a few trains) and possibly a guest speaker, on Thursday, June 28 from 1:00 PM to 5:00 PM. We have set the get-together around the theme, "AMERICAN FLYER TRAINS.... KEEP 'EM RUNNING." Since this is the first session of its type (to our knowledge here in the Southeast) at a TCA Convention ever, or at least in recent memory, we don't know how many attendees to expect. We figure, even if there are a dozen of us, that it will be a huge success. So, if you can make it to the Convention, plan on joining us. Bring your questions, share your operating and collecting experiences, and be ready to have some fun!! Let's KEEP 'EM RUNNING More information soon to follow. Best regards, Steve Pendleton and Fred Faist [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13375	From: John Foley	Date: 5/26/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Movie Thoughts (was PEARL HARBOR)

Hi Don't forget a real oldy, called Danger Lights. If I remember right they film that on the Milwaukee RR. One of the actors was Robert Armstrong from King Kong fame. Great Railroad movie. John At 01:38 PM 5/26/01 -0500, rgajnak@... wrote: >See embedded comments below. > > > >Rbrubeck@*****.com wrote: > > > > > "The Train" is excellent, but there are a few more movies to >add. "The > > General" with Buster Keaton is superb and to be preferred over Disney's >"The > > Great Locomotive Chase". Also, the loading of a real circus >train is shown > > (as backdrop in one scene) in southern Philadelphia on a PRR spur in > > > DeMille's "The Greatest Show on Earth". :-) > > > >Agree on "The General", have only a vague recollection on "Greatest Show on >Earth." > >Disney's "Great Locomotive Chase" isn't bad, and can be classified above >the average cinematic railroad fare. > > > >Gerry Evans wrote: > > > > > I agree with you selection of "train" movies. However, you forgot >"The > > Gray Fox" and "Breakheart Pass" with the latter being one of the >most > > suspenseful "train" movies ever made. > > > >True, particularly the horse rustling scene in "Grey Fox" was one of the >most understated and yet spectacular scenes shot. I found that excessive >whistling in "Breakheart Pass" annoying and detracting from this fine >movie. > > > >kite1@****.com wrote: > > > > > Don't forget the original SILVER STREAK that starred the Burlington's >Pioneer > > Zepher and made back in the 30's. It shows from time to time on >AMC. > > > >The all time classic fun pot-boiler. I recall during the Pioneer >Zephyr's 50th anniversary at Chicago's Museum of Science and Industry, >there was >a display of some of the props and stills from the movie. Also displayed >was a letter by a railfan to the studio complaining about the "terrible >railroading" that took place in "Silver Streak." The studio's response was >that yes, while "Silver Steak" may have contained "terrible railroading," the >movie was "swell melodrama." > > > >Indeed. > > > >Be seeing you... > >Rich G. > > > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >The topic is S Scale please keep your messages 'on-topic'. >To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13376	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 5/26/2001
Subject: R.R. errors and *@%# in 'Pearl Harbor'

Well, now that I've seen 'the turkey', the RR errors are worse than one might have expected: 1. Departure scene for the hero to Britain was shot in LA Union Station, but he left from NYC, so the (large) station would have had to be either Grand Central or Pennsylvania Station. 2. Because of #1, the CZ car is not only out of date, but on the wrong coast. 3. An SP (it looks like) steam engine pulling a train on the LIRR -- with mountains (!) in the background. The passenger cars aren't correct, either. Besides, if one departed for England from NYC in 1941, one would have most likely taken a ship, anyway. Some other non-RR beauts: 1. Mountains in Long Island? 2. Knox was Secretary of the Navy, but the Knox class destroyers in Pearl Harbor were about 25 years hence. 3. The USS Missouri was only blue prints and a keel in 1941. 4. The superstructures on the Japanese carriers kept shifting from port to starboard and back -- port is correct. 5. The Oklahoma capsizes -- which is correct -- but it rolls over floating way UP on its port side, which means that it would not have had taken on enough water to have rolled over in the first place. 6. Angle deck US carriers on the Halsey-Doolittle raid -- these were not around until the mid-50s -- and, the Brits did this innovation first. There are a lot more goofs, but you get the idea. Have fun looking for more on your own. You'll have NO trouble finding them! Those who are familiar with the history of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor will have a field day. :-)) RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13377	From: rgajnak@earthlink.net	Date: 5/26/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Movie Thoughts (was PEARL HARBOR)

Fear not...I haven't forgot about "Danger Lights", another pot-boiler classic. It did indeed have some great footage for the time, shot on the Milwaukee Road. I particularly liked the hero's changing out the journal packing (while in motion) of the locomotive's trailing truck (which alternated between a Pacific and a Mikado) during the high speed run (100mph???) to Chicago to save Dan Thorn's life. It don't get no better than that... Rich G. PS Let's also not forget "The Denver and Rio Grande", C.B. DeMill's "Union Pacific" and that quirky British classic "The Titfield Thunderbolt." ----- Original Message ----- From: John Foley To: STrains ;SScale ;rgajnak@... Sent: 05/26/2001 2:49:49 PM Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Movie Thoughts (was PEARL HARBOR) Hi Don't forget a real oldy, called Danger Lights. If I remember right they film that on the Milwaukee RR. One of the actors was Robert Armstrong from King Kong fame. Great Railroad movie. John At 01:38 PM 5/26/01 -0500, rgajnak@... wrote: See embedded comments below. Rbrubeck@*****.com"> Rbrubeck@*****.com wrote: "The Train" is excellent, but there are a few more movies to add. "The General" with Buster Keaton is superb and to be preferred over Disney's "The Great Locomotive Chase". Also, the loading of a real circus train is shown (as backdrop in one scene) in southern Philadelphia on a PRR spur in DeMille's "The Greatest Show on Earth". :-) Agree on "The General", have only a vague recollection on "Greatest Show on Earth." Disney's "Great Locomotive Chase" isn't bad, and can be classified above the average cinematic railroad fare. Gerry Evans wrote: I agree with you selection of "train" movies. However, you forgot "The Gray Fox" and "Breakheart Pass" with the latter being one of the most suspenseful "train" movies ever made. True, particularly the horse rustling scene in "Grey Fox" was one of the most understated and yet spectacular scenes shot. I found that excessive whistling in "Breakheart Pass" annoying and detracting from this fine movie. kite1@****.com"> kite1@****.com wrote: Don't forget the original SILVER STREAK that starred the Burlington's Pioneer Zepher and made back in the 30's. It shows from time to time on AMC. The all time classic fun pot-boiler. I recall during the Pioneer Zephyr's 50th anniversary at Chicago's Museum of Science and Industry, there was a display of some of the props and stills from the movie. Also displayed was a letter by a railfan to the studio complaining about the "terrible railroading" that took place in "Silver Streak." The studio's response was that yes, while "Silver Steak" may have contained "terrible railroading," the movie was "swell melodrama." Indeed. Be seeing you... Rich G. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] The topic is S Scale please keep your messages 'on-topic'. To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13378	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/26/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Movie Thoughts (was PEARL HARBOR)

Pray tell, why would you change out the packing of a journal box while the locomotive is running. Larry Jackman rgajnak@... wrote: > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13379	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/26/2001
Subject: Re: books

I have Greenburg's Guide To AMERICAN FLYER S Gauge, Vol one and Vol two. I would take 10 dollars each and 4 dollars shipping. Or make me an offer Larry Jackman

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13380	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/26/2001
Subject: Re: R.R. errors and *@%# in 'Pearl Harbor'

Yep, the steamer is SP2353. The station shots, done in LA are of SF 3751, which was not steamed up for the shooting, just towed there and back to storage at Redando Jct. (probably not spelled correctly!) S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13381	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/26/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Movie Thoughts (was PEARL HARBOR)

Larry asked, "Pray tell, why would you change out the packing of a journal box while the locomotive is running." BECAUSE IT'S IN THE SCRIPT! He he he! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13382	From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com	Date: 5/26/2001
Subject: Smoke Unit Wick: An easy way to start it.

Friends, A few weeks ago I was struggling with a replacement wick for a smoke unit. First time I had ever replaced one and no matter what I did, I couldn't get it through those little holes. I tried feeding some wire through from the bottom, making a loop for the fiberglass and pulling it back through. The wire just cut the fiberglass. The wire was too fine. Then I tried wetting the tip of the fiberglass with smoke fluid. No luck, just had a mess to deal with. Then I came up with the following idea remembering Junior High leather craft lacing needles. (When I was the teacher.) Soooo--here's what I did: I took a piece of notepaper, nothing special, cut a piece about 3/8" x 1 1/2" long. I rolled it into a long cone shape around the end of the fiberglass, rolled it tight and put the tip of the cone through the first hole in the smoke unit, tugged it through, and with just a little work - the wick was through the hole! Remaining paper was removed, then the other wick end was inserted in the same way. I was amazed at how easily the wick ends went through the holes with this insertion method. And after putting it all back together, it all worked!! I left 1 turn of wire off each end of the coil as had been suggested, and the engine really smokes nicely. I hope I may have helped enlighten someone trying to do this repair. I've learned a lot from reading the list, and it is the one e-mail I look forward to everyday! Have a pleasant Memorial Day! We'll be off early Monday to straighten flags at "our" section of Jefferson Barracks cemetery. Bill Trefts ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13383	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/26/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Movie Thoughts (was PEARL HARBOR)

You got that right. When my wife and I watch a movie and the Hero is in trouble, I tell her "do not worry, he will not get killed". She asks " how do I know" and I tell her "because that is the way the script is written". Then she will not give me any more Popcorn. Larry Jackman David Dewey wrote: > > Larry asked, > "Pray tell, why would you change out the packing of a journal box while > the locomotive is running." > > BECAUSE IT'S IN THE SCRIPT! > > He he he! > S' > David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13384	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/26/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Movie Thoughts (was PEARL HARBOR)

I know all that but I wanted to know just what the writer thought would be accomplished by do so. Jim: I CCed the s-trains list so they will get to see your answer Thanks Larry Jackman Jim Kindraka wrote: > > "Why did the chicken cross the road?" > > You have to repack the hot journal at 100 mph to get to Chicago to save the > guys life to get the girl... C'mon Larry, don't you know the classic > Hollywood musical was 'boy meets girl, boy looses girl, boy sings song, boy > gets girl back'! Well, this is classic railroad movie (Matinee at the > Bijou!) - boy meets girl, boy looses girl, boy repacks journal of moving > locomotive at 100 mph, boy gets girl back... > > It don't get no better than this! (Grin) > Jim K. > > (Sorry, not a member of S-Trains, so can't copy them.) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "lawrence jackman" <ljack70117@...> > Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2001 9:20 PM > Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Re: [S-Scale] Movie Thoughts > > > Pray tell, why would you change out the packing of a journal box while > > the locomotive is running. > > Larry Jackman

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13385	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/26/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Movie Thoughts (was PEARL HARBOR)

"Why did the chicken cross the road?" I forgot to answer this. To show the possum(spelling) it could be done Thanks Larry Jackman

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13386	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 5/27/2001
Subject: Re: F-3 deliveries

The F-3 container arrived late Friday afternoon. We will start to ship these items this week. Also included were : two numbers of the MP (NOT&M) "Eagle Merchandise Service" boxcar two numbers of C&NW (CStP&O) yellow and green boxcars. NASG 2002 LRX Convention Cars Scenery Unlimited Kahn's reefer Scenery Unlimited Old Dutch Maid reefers KD style close coupling couplers. Extra F-3 parts Re: DCC F-3 - Steve from Soundtrax has notified us that the new second generations DCC S scale sound decoders samples are ready to be shipped. Once these have been evaluated, we will start production. We are hoping to see these in late June. Anyone that has a DCC version of our F-3s on order will be getting a DC only F-3 at this time. We will send the DCC sound decoders once they are available to us. To install, one only needs to remove 4 screws, remove the DC shorting plug and plug in the DCC sound decoder. These new decoders will also fit into our SW series of switchers. -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 F-3 A and B unit sets are now in stock! http://www.showcaseline.com/emdf3s_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13387	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/27/2001
Subject: New MTH stuff?

Hi all, The following was posted on Toytrains, copied from OGR forum, it kinda flies in the face of the recently reported layoff at MTH and the reports of warehouses full of unsold stock, but here it is. My interest is the comment "All gauges" Hmm, could they be meaning S too??? S' David D. >>Subject: The Lionel Killer(Tony Lash) Date: 5/25/01 4:51 PM Pacific Daylight Time The Next MTH catalog is call The Lionel KILLER.MTH may put out over 225 new diesels and 170 new steam engine all with proto 2. This is ALL gauges. There will be a lot of new road names and road #'s.IMO MTH is giving you the customer what you want. Mike Wolf heard you at YORK.Just buy what you like,this catalog is just for you. Tony Lash

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13388	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/27/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Movie Thoughts (was PEARL HARBOR)

That is the answer I wanted. Changing the packing at speed to fix a hot box would do you no good. If the journal is hot enough to set the packing and oil on fire the bearing has all ready melted and all you can do is change the bearing but first you must cool it and make sure the journal is not cut. So the "idiot" did not have to risk his life to change it. They could have continued on as is because things inside the journal box did not change by just changing the packing. The new stuff would caught fire as soon as it was placed in the box. Good story though. Thank you Larry Jackman Russell Mobley wrote: > > Because you have a "Hot Box"...........Russ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "lawrence jackman" <ljack70117@...> > To: "SScale" <S-Scale@yahoogroups.com> > Cc: "STrains" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2001 9:20 PM > Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Re: [S-Scale] Movie Thoughts (was PEARL HARBOR) > > > Pray tell, why would you change out the packing of a journal box while > > the locomotive is running. > > Larry Jackman > > > > rgajnak@... wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The topic is S Scale please keep your messages 'on-topic'. > > To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13389	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 5/27/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1027

Movie greats, the fight seen on a flat car in "How the west was won" a stunt man was killed filming the sequence. In the " Greatest Show on Earth" shows a GG-1 in the yards. "Bell, Book, and Candle" a seen in the background shows the Gilbert Hall of science."Two Tickets to Tomahawk" two locomotives have a head-on (barn yard meet) crash, filmed in Colorado on the Rio Grand Southern. "Indiana Jones" circus train alias, Cumbres and toltec R.R. Jerry 77-11644 ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13390	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 5/27/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, May 27, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13391	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/27/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1027

Correct term ia cornfield meet. Larry Jackman Gerald R Dobbs wrote: > > Movie greats, the fight seen on a flat car in "How the west was won" > a stunt man was killed filming the sequence. In the " Greatest Show on > Earth" > shows a GG-1 in the yards. "Bell, Book, and Candle" a seen in the > background shows > the Gilbert Hall of science."Two Tickets to Tomahawk" two locomotives > have a head-on > (barn yard meet) crash, filmed in Colorado on the Rio Grand Southern. > "Indiana Jones" > circus train alias, Cumbres and toltec R.R. > > Jerry 77-11644 > > > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13392	From: negative_pitch@hotmail.com	Date: 5/27/2001
Subject: Re: R.R. errors and *@%# in 'Pearl Harbor'

Well the first blooper I noticed was not mentioned by any of you. It isn't a railroad blooper though. The first prototype Stearman was not built until 1933 which is 10 years after they showed it when the boys are playing "spray pilot" in the barn. I didn't bother to look it up, but I don't believe anyone was spraying crops in 1923 either. Mark --- In S-Trains@y..., rbubeck327@a... wrote: > Well, now that I've seen 'the turkey', the RR errors are worse than one might > have expected: > > 1. Departure scene for the hero to Britain was shot in LA Union Station, but > he left from NYC, so the (large) station would have had to be either Grand > Central or Pennsylvania Station. > 2. Because of #1, the CZ car is not only out of date, but on the wrong coast. > 3. An SP (it looks like) steam engine pulling a train on the LIRR -- with > mountains (!) in the background. The passenger cars aren't correct, either. > Besides, if one departed for England from NYC in 1941, one would have most > likely taken a ship, anyway. > > Some other non-RR beauts: > > 1. Mountains in Long Island? > 2. Knox was Secretary of the Navy, but the Knox class destroyers in Pearl > Harbor were about 25 years hence. > 3. The USS Missouri was only blue prints and a keel in 1941. > 4. The superstructures on the Japanese carriers kept shifting from port to > starboard and back -- port is correct. > 5. The Oklahoma capsizes -- which is correct -- but it rolls over floating > way UP on its port side, which means that it would not have had taken on > enough water to have rolled over in the first place. > 6. Angle deck US carriers on the Halsey-Doolittle raid -- these were not > around until the mid-50s -- and, the Brits did this innovation first. > > There are a lot more goofs, but you get the idea. Have fun looking for more > on your own. You'll have NO trouble finding them! Those who are familiar > with the history of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor will have a field > day. :-)) > > RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13393	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 5/27/2001
Subject: reverse unit fingerboards

What is the correct name for the material that the boards in repro reverse unit finger sets are made of? Thanks. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13394	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 5/27/2001
Subject: LTI Solid State reverse units

Is there anywhere you can send a defective LTI solid state reverse unit for repair? Has anyone had any luck with this? Thanks. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13395	From: sgriggs@umich.edu	Date: 5/27/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] PEARL HARBOR

--- In S-Trains@y..., "David Dewey" <djdewey@c...> wrote: > I seem to recall the use of SF 3751 for this movie. Was towed to, I think, > LA union station for the station shots. Most of this was done very quietly > with little railfan publicity. There was a little bit of posting on it on > the Trainorders Western RR BBS. > S' > David D. 3751 is indeed in the movie. There was a scene (supposed to take place at a train station in NYC--maybe Grand Central) where 3751 appears steamed up and with something like "New York Lines" painted on its steam chest. The passenger cars on an adjacent track are Budd corrugated Stainless--looked like CB&Q. The motive power in another scene of a passenger train going to New York City was one of the SP Pacifics that have been restored to operation. The producers obviously took some liberties with rail equipment to bring the movie home within budget. Of course it's inaccurate to have Western steam and rolling stock standing in for non-existant New York Central equipment, but that's economic reality. Most would rather see a movie with incorrect trains as background filler than see no movie at all because it's economically infeasible to perfectly reproduce every aspect.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13396	From: ronnat@cros.net	Date: 5/27/2001
Subject: e unit fingers

that stuff is called micarta board & I don/t know where to get it any more or why it might still be made ron

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13397	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 5/27/2001
Subject: Re: reverse unit fingerboards

I believe it is called phenolic. jarcho@... wrote: > > What is the correct name for the material that the boards in repro reverse > unit finger sets are made of? > > Thanks. Tom Jarcho > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13398	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/27/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Movie Thoughts (was PEARL HARBOR)

Chuck, Well, it all depends on the tonal inflection you want to convey! HEE HEE HEE implies hi pitched snickering, like Precious Pup would do. he he he implies a maniacal, but quiet gloating! Now where's that moustache wax?? Oh wait, I don't have a handlebar moustache to wax--but I do have a cape! S' David D. The quiet, mild-mannered railfan slips into a nearby handy ACG trackside toolshed and emerges--S-MAN!! Faster than a sticking reverse unit, able to leap over flying mailbags!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13399	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 5/28/2001
Subject: Tom's question on reverser fingers

- Greeting`S' - Need to see the material to be sure. If it is brown, it is likely phenolic board. If green and translucent, likely g;ass-reinforced epoxy board. Cheer`S' Rhett

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13400	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/28/2001
Subject: Re: Tom's question on reverser fingers

This brings up some questions: Can modern epoxy board be substituted for manufacturing the fingers? Would it hold up better? Is the original stuff becoming hard to find? S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13401	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 5/28/2001
Subject: Re: Tom's question on reverser fingers

David, I would think the answer to your questions would be Yes and Yes. Phenolic is more easily burned during soldering, and is more easily broken than the glass epoxy stuff. It will probably be green in color however.... Chuck David Dewey wrote: > This brings up some questions: Can modern epoxy board be substituted for > manufacturing the fingers? Would it hold up better? Is the original stuff > becoming hard to find? > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13402	From: TED R LARSON	Date: 5/28/2001
Subject: Mission Cars

A while back there were several comments about chapel cars on the railroads, operated by various Christian denominations or mission groups. My local paper has interesting info on a similar topic. I live within sight of the Erie canal (and the NYC Water Level Route). The HISTORY column of my paper shows a photo of "an old circus boat that was transformed into a gospel boat named the "Good News"". It was financed in 1893 by a Syracuse grocer who was "concerned that the failure to stop canal traffic and work on Sundays was jeopardizing the souls of canal workers." Morning meetings and evening services were held for travelers and workers along the Erie Canal. Ted Larson Don't drive yourself crazy.......... get a chauffeur!!!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13403	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 5/28/2001
Subject: David's questions on reverser fingerboards

- Greeting`S' - David raised some good questions regarding the small insulator boards which hold reverser contact fingers. The epoxy board is a bit stronger, more resistant to moisture, more predictable in its characteristics, and more expensive. In comment, several of my locos have very worn fingers, but no broken finger boards - phenolic may be strong enough. The change in conduc- tivity from near-zero to something small affects sensitive electronic circuits - 1 A to 2 1/2 A at 5 to 15 V in an AF loco is not a sensitive application. Capacitance between traces and between traces and what's on the other side of the circuit board does affect computer mother boards and memory boards - configuration of the finger boards causes no concern about capacitance. Finger boards are small - no real concern over cost, even if buying 100 of them. If I make my on finger board, I'm with you, David. I'll make it of epoxy. It is more pleasant to work with. Cheer`S' Rhett

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13404	From: loubaldi@aol.com	Date: 5/28/2001
Subject: Re: reverse unit fingerboards

--- In S-Trains@y..., jarcho@r... wrote: > What is the correct name for the material that the boards in repro reverse > unit finger sets are made of? > > Thanks. Tom Jarcho Tom, Looking at the spare fingers I have the material looks like Micarta to me. This product is heavily used in the electrical industry as an insulating material. It is still used today in the construction of motors and high voltage power circuit breakers, etc.. It can be purchased from various electrical distibutors. It comes in numerous thicknesses and sizes. Below is a web site for more info. http://www.ridoutplastics.com/higpreslammi.html Lou Baldi

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13405	From: d.garber@home.com	Date: 5/28/2001
Subject: fingerboards

looks like the web site that Lou took us to answers most of the questions.One is a brand name the other the material it is made of.The old (is it a Band- Aid or an adheasive bandage) idea. thanks LOU off to eat to much of the wrong thing at a cook out DAVE GARBER

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13406	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/28/2001
Subject: Re: David's questions on reverser fingerboards

Rhett, If you do go into production, get silver-plated phosphor bronze for the fingers! I have seldom run accross "L" fingers on their e-units that are burnt. Of course they also have plated drum contacts too. I dunno, here I am asking for longer-lasting parts for a unit that was designed at least by 1946, if not 1938, and no longer has a modern application. . . . . S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13407	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 5/28/2001
Subject: valve gear for 336

Anyone know where I can get the valve gear rods for a 336 Northern? thanks, Tom _---_---_---______--__--___+-----+||] [||####### B & O #####|______||_____ || pjpennington@... __| [][] |__ || ||_______________________/ _| B&O |___\_|| | ||| | | | | | | / | 4212 | # ||| | []|=|==================o=====o==================|=|[] /|-||(0)|=|(0)|=|(O) |_________| (0)|=|(0)|=|(O)||-|\ ======================================================== [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13408	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 5/28/2001
Subject: Re: valve gear for 336

Try Doug Peck at Portlines Hobby Supplies portlines.com. Tom Pennington wrote: > Anyone know where I can get the valve gear rods for a 336 Northern? > > thanks, Tom > > _---_---_---______--__--___+-----+||] > [||####### B & O #####|______||_____ > || pjpennington@... __| [][] |__ || > ||_______________________/ _| B&O |___\_|| > | ||| | | | | | | / | 4212 | # ||| | > []|=|==================o=====o==================|=|[] > /|-||(0)|=|(0)|=|(O) |_________| (0)|=|(0)|=|(O)||-|\ > ======================================================== > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13409	From: dlehnhoff@hotmail.com	Date: 5/28/2001
Subject: Valve rodes etc. 336 Northern

I was able to get cross head and other rods from Ron Leventon in Chehalis, Wa. Dwight Lehnhoff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13410	From: davedesian@clarkus.com	Date: 5/29/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1026

RE: Message #5, I am David Avedesian. I am the person that made/makes the 30/45/60 degree AF crossovers. If anyone is interested in talking to me about how they are made, I can be reached at 301 272 8384 w, 301 938 1811 c, 301 929 9000 h, davedesian@.... David S-Trains@yahoogroups.com on 05/26/2001 04:02:54 AM Please respond to S-Trains@yahoogroups.com To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com cc: Subject: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1026 S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ There are 11 messages in this issue. Topics in this digest: 1. All Aboard Yahoo Club From: "Karl Raab" <Frilen@...> 2. Re: S-trains in New Orleans From: kite1@... 3. What is S's slice of the pie? From: Peter Ervin <pjervin@...> 4. Re: What is S's slice of the pie? From: Michael Greene <mgreene@...> 5. Re: Digest Number 1025 From: Robert Werre <socksw@...> 6. Re: What is S's slice of the pie? From: Glenn Ritter <gartrain@...> 7. Reminder - Sunday Chat From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com 8. Re: S-trains in New Orleans From: "mlmarmer" <mlmarmer@...> 9. Re: Digest Number 1025 From: Gerald R Dobbs <grdobbs@...> 10. PEARL HARBOR From: "BENJAMIN PERRY" <BENPERRY1@...> 11. Re: [S-Scale] PEARL HARBOR From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 1 Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 09:45:18 -0000 From: "Karl Raab" <Frilen@...> Subject: All Aboard Yahoo Club Hi all Just a quick note: A Yahoo club-site has been established recently at http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/allaboardsets for fans of American Flyer All Aboard Panel sets, and Pikemaster equipment. You might drop by for the fun of it and take a look... The site started regarding the very rare "L" floor plan house that was cataloged as part of the whistle panel. I have speculated about it's similarity to a Plasticville New England Ranch House #1701. We are seeking photo's of any originals, beyond those published in the '65 catalog, or box cover artwork by A.C.Gilbert, Or, better yet information from someone that is lucky enough to actually own one.. All comments, information, theories..are welcome. Thanx...Karl ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 2 Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 07:52:03 -0500 From: kite1@... Subject: Re: S-trains in New Orleans Mike: Sounds like your wife hung out in the seedy part of the French Quarter from your description of the city. Roger, New Orleans is a beautiful historic city. The St Charles street car line is the oldest operating passenger railway line in the USA. The journey will take you past some of the most magnificent mansions, Audubon Park, as well as Tulane and Loyola Universities. You can buy an all day pass valid on all transit lines from the operator as you board for $4. You will also find the Riverfront streetcar line offers a scenic ride from the French Market to the Riverwalk. The streetcar line on Canal Street has just been put back in service and you can ride that too. Union Passenger Station offers a chance to view Superliners and Viewliners on the Crescent, City of New Orleans and the Sunset Limited. New Orleans also has its own Railroad - the New Orleans Public Belt Railway which runs along the Mississippi. As far as hobby shops, Hub Hobby on Broad Street is the oldest. Mainly HO stuff here I am afraid. Stay off of Bourbon Street in the French Quarter and you will miss the drunks, urine smell etc. Be prepared for HOT AND HUMID and dress as lightly as you can. Like any major cities, you need to watch where you go to avoid unsavory elements of society. A little care in planning and you will have a great time. Michael mlmarmer wrote: > Roger, > > Try www.hobbyretailer.com to search the city. There was two shoppe's > showing for New Orleans. And type in LA for the state for a complete > search. Of course, check out the phone book when you get in. > > My question to you is, why would anyone want to leave pleasent Colorado and > the Rockies for awful disguisting New Orleans! My wife was in New Orleans > last year for work and it was awful unless you like the smell of urine, > seeing drunks and tranvesites!! Me, I'll take the mountains! At least > there is Minor League Baseball there in New Orleans and Alligators! Try the > alligator tail sandwiches! > > Baton Rouge is a hour away and may have some train Shoppe's also. > > My wife was just in Golden, Colorado for business and it was a nice small > town. > > Good luck with your search and have a great time, > > Mike Marmer > Germantown, Maryland > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 3 Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 09:19:17 -0700 From: Peter Ervin <pjervin@...> Subject: What is S's slice of the pie? I recall reading somewhere that S had 3% of the model train market and O had 6%. But I have visited 3 hobby shops in the last couple of weeks, and they had little to no S. All 3 had O, but 2 of them had so much O that it looked like the shelves were about to crumble. And most of that was from MTH. So what are the real stats? Anyone care to offer an opinion? Peter Ervin Cumberland, MD ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 4 Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 09:54:38 -0400 From: Michael Greene <mgreene@...> Subject: Re: What is S's slice of the pie? Don't confuse shelf space with # or modelers...they can be very different. While there may be some relationship, I would propose it is not linear, nor consistent shop to shop. And some mannufacturers put a high premium on having more shelf space than their competitors, and some don't put as high a value on it... At 09:19 AM 5/25/2001 -0700, Peter Ervin wrote: >I recall reading somewhere that S had 3% of the model train market and O >had 6%. But I have visited 3 hobby shops in the last couple of weeks, and >they had little to no S. All 3 had O, but 2 of them had so much O that it >looked like the shelves were about to crumble. And most of that was from >MTH. So what are the real stats? Anyone care to offer an opinion? ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 5 Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 10:43:37 -0500 From: Robert Werre <socksw@...> Subject: Re: Digest Number 1025 > > > Remember, way back in October of 2000, Wayne Broadhead made the > statement: > > "Maybe someone else out there knows how to shoot professional video > camera > footage, and can step in and give us something that is good." > > And Rick Evans said: > > "Heck,...I'd be happy just to see someone's home videos of their > layout!! Maybe > we could get everyone to video tape their own layouts and then find > someone with > the right equipment and put it all together! Quality wouldn't be all > that great, but > just the fact they were all home videos of their layouts to share > with others. > > I, for fun, have shot some video of my small layout, and it didn't > look all that bad! > And I was hand holding the camera, using my tripod would be MUCH > better! > > Hmmmm....maybe we could start somethin' here." > > So where are all those videos of layouts in action??? > > Steve Blackburn, to date, has been the only man to produce new video > footage for those of us interested in S gauge/S scale/AF train layouts. > He has a 2nd video in the works. Not only videos but Steve and his > friend have come up with replacement motors for AF steam engines (DC and > AC versions) and is working on replacement motors for AF diesels. > > Where are all those other men who were going to put forth videos for us > to enjoy??? > > We need to give recognition to those people who have the passion for > helping the rest of us enjoy this wonderful hobby. Maybe Paul York > could set up an area to recognize those people who have developed some > product or idea to help this hobby along. This should include videos, > layout designs (that includes Paul's layout he built earlier this year), > circuitry for replacing/repairing old accessories, better power pickups, > replacement motors (include Fred Jester here also), repair ideas/parts > that work better than factory originals, designs in track (whatever > happened to the fellow who designed the 30 degree crossover - we need > this posted to this list along with the design), where to find great > ideas from magazines (S Gauge Herald and S Gaugian), etc. > > > What do you think??? > > Al Rawdon > > To All: Steve's video is (or will be) a great historical piece, but he was not the first by many years. Paul Riley from Peabody, Mass. shot and produced a video of several layouts sometime ending around 1990. I have a copy 'cause the early stages of my layout are on it. I don't think he sold enough copies for it to be well known. As I recall the video had some decent footage of several AF layouts and shows from the Eastern states from several past modelers. Also featured were the layouts in the Houston area (5 -I think) that were shot during the 1989 NMRA convention tours. Paul provided the narration for the footage although some of it is not totally accurate. Bob Werre ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 6 Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 13:25:30 -0400 From: Glenn Ritter <gartrain@...> Subject: Re: What is S's slice of the pie? Hi Peter, Having been immersed in this for several years there are no real statistics. Model Railroader publishes stats based on their subscribers which you have quoted giving "HO" over 80%. Classic Toy Trains would lean more to "O". True "S" would comprise scale, Sn3, hi-rail and American Flyer. There are over 100,000 American Flyer owners that don't even get their trains out of the attic, basement, etc. There are no real statistics but finding "S" is worth the hunt. Seeing scale "S", Sn3, hi-rail and American Flyer in operation is a treat and building a layout is worth the time invested. Staying on the NPSG branchline of NASG track, Glenn NASG secretary Peter Ervin wrote: I recall reading somewhere that S had 3% of the model train market and O had 6%. But I have visited 3 hobby shops in the last couple of weeks, and they had little to no S. All 3 had O, but 2 of them had so much O that it looked like the shelves were about to crumble. And most of that was from MTH. So what are the real stats? Anyone care to offer an opinion? Peter Ervin Cumberland, MD ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 7 Date: 26 May 2001 00:02:00 -0000 From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, May 27, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 8 Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 20:09:07 -0400 From: "mlmarmer" <mlmarmer@...> Subject: Re: S-trains in New Orleans Hi Roger and Kite1(sorry I didn't see your name at the end of the email), I didn't mean to sound so down on New Orleans! But is was a bad first impression after hearing how wonderful NOLA was for my wife. Of course, everytown has it good and bad. We live 15 miles north of Washington, DC and it is amazing how sacred people are to come here to see the monuments and the museums! It is so safe in that area. It is the area in S.E. that has the problems of drugs and things. So I am sure New Orleans has lots of great things to see and do! My wife was staying near the airport and was at Tulane while doing work for Sodexho Marriott, a food contract services company. Tulane was wonderful. But everywhere her company went for dinner (Executive Chefs and Dieticians)and leisure activity, it was awful! One example, she saw a very nice B&B in town that was sounded by the smell of urine. Sorry. I know there is some nicer things to New Orleans. Didn't mean to sound so down on New Orleans, but my wife and I are into the outdoors like Acadia National Park, besides American Flyer Trains, and maybe towns like New Orleans isn't for us! But then Boston is a wonderful town with lots of train shops and things to see! We enjoyed Boston greatly. Kite 1 like you said, plan ahead. Fenway Park was wonderful, along with the subway. Roger good luck on your exam. I hope you find some AF trains. You never now what you might find when you are not looking. That is the fun part of traveling! I have found old Flyer in great shape in a hardware store, a B&B, and one time I got lost in Maine and found a train shop with tons of Flyer! Mike Marmer Germantown, MD ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 9 Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 18:48:35 -0600 From: Gerald R Dobbs <grdobbs@...> Subject: Re: Digest Number 1025 I agree with Mike Mermer, I spent some time last winter in New Orleans. Golden Colorado, is best, also it has a big train shop (Colorado Railroad museum) A must for any one visiting the Golden area. A lot of narrow gauge equipment + a large collection of Colorado railroadiana, Located across the street from COORS Brewery. Jerry Dobbs (5 minutes from Golden) ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 10 Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 03:43:11 From: "BENJAMIN PERRY" <BENPERRY1@...> Subject: PEARL HARBOR Saw a movie trailer on TV for Pearl Harbor. It showed interior views of LA Union Station and platform scenes with stainless steel Budd CB&Q equipment in in the background. It had to be CBQ because a partial view of the nameboard said SILVER?????? so that would rule out the Santa Fe, as the Western Pacific and DRGW did not have stainless steel equipment in 1941. What was CBQ stainless equipment doing in LA in 1941? The Cal Zephyr was not running yet and it went to Oakland. Could not make out whether it was 74 ft or scale length :-]. On that fateful Dec 7th my dad was setting up my Marx Commodore Vanderbilt set in preparation for the forthcoming holiday season when the news came over the radio. I was a bit too young to fully understand it's meaning, but I will always remember the shock and concern of my parents who had lived through WW-I _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 11 Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 23:14:59 -0700 From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> Subject: Re: [S-Scale] PEARL HARBOR I seem to recall the use of SF 3751 for this movie. Was towed to, I think, LA union station for the station shots. Most of this was done very quietly with little railfan publicity. There was a little bit of posting on it on the Trainorders Western RR BBS. S' David D. ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13411	From: David	Date: 5/29/2001
Subject: Re: valve gear for 336

Used to be that only the crosshead and main rod assembly was not available. That may have changed now. The other items are available thru Port Lines or Leventons'. That 336 on e-bay is missing the eccentric assembly, thats available.....

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13412	From: Alex	Date: 5/29/2001
Subject: Re: Pix

Ah, I wish it were so Tom. The Guilford line apparently keeps the roundhouse and turntable because it's likely less costly than taking them down. However, your idea about the museum is excellent, especially considering that tourism is a large part of the Maine economy. Now, how would I go about getting someone interested? -- Alex -----Original Message----- From: Jarcho [mailto:jarcho@...] Sent: Monday, May 28, 2001 9:59 AM To: alexmm@... Subject: Re: Pix I thought they were 1)beautiful photographs and 2) extremely interesting. Is that a future Railroad Museum you have there? Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13413	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 5/29/2001
Subject: Wick starter tips

Pun intended. Try rolling a small piece of Scotch tape (the type you can write on) between your fingers around the ends of the new wick (dry) in the shape of a point. Try it a couple of times you'll see what I mean. Made small enough, they go right through the holes. Theh, either pull the tape tips off, or snip 'em, you'll only loose 3/8" of so. Where there's smoke, There's Flyer. Dave [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13414	From: gino restivo	Date: 5/29/2001
Subject: Re: LTI Solid State reverse units

hi, all yes i have repaired many of these reverse brds the most common to repair is # 600-0103-001 their are some i haven't seen yet , note the brd # is aprox $25 -28 plus s/h from most part suppliers, if you cant get one try george tebolt ( georges train house ) al franceschetti(alfra engineering) charlie schmitt(lionel postwar parts) i'm sure their are others who would have these pc's ck the # on the brd you have also what loco # it was in i have repaied these and hundreds of mth proto brds, williams,wvr, qsi, almost every time its cheaper to buy a replacement....all of these are mass produce oversea's and their are no schematic's or a list of parts.. parts for them have been deleted ,upgraded so many times you cant' keep count .....or locate the parts the name of the finger material is MICARTA, grade - ce it is a phenolic resin ( bakelite ) made by International Paper Co ,decorative product div. thru READ PLASTICS, rockville,md 301-881-7900 it was prepaid, size 24 x 36 min 9 sheets $ 85 per sheet,color brown - black , 6 -8 wks + s/h the green stuff is called e-glass and is a fiberglass laminate replacement fingers are 0.65 cents each per 1000 count bulk as rec from the manufacturer... hope this info can help you, i will be cking the site listed by lou , thanks -----Original Message----- From: jarcho@... <jarcho@...> To: S-trains@yahoogroups.com <S-trains@yahoogroups.com> Date: Sunday, May 27, 2001 7:24 PM Subject: [S-Trains] LTI Solid State reverse units >Is there anywhere you can send a defective LTI solid state reverse unit for >repair? Has anyone had any luck with this? > >Thanks. Tom Jarcho > > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > NetZero Platinum No Banner Ads and Unlimited Access Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month! http://www.netzero.net

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13415	From: toby_loftus@mentor.com	Date: 5/29/2001
Subject: online source for Wahl Clipper Oil

Hi all, For any of you looking for an online source for Wahl Clipper Oil (good for cleaning track), I just bought some from American Discount Beauty. Here's a link to their page with the oil: http://www.adiscountbeauty.com/page6.html Although the shipping was a little high, the total cost for four 4 oz. bottles was under $16. I have no affiliation with this company. I just get so much good information from this list that I thought I'd share my experience. -Toby

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13416	From: Clay Buckage	Date: 5/29/2001
Subject: Re: Wick starter tips

dave & all We use a piece of heat shrink on the ends of the wick regard'S' Clay "Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men???" "The Shadow Knows!" Clay Buckage Dave's Twacks & Twains Box 388 Tatamy, Pa. 18085 clay@... www.davestnt.com ----- Original Message ----- From: <david_horn@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2001 9:41 AM Subject: [S-Trains] Wick starter tips > Pun intended. Try rolling a small piece of Scotch tape (the type you can > write on) between your fingers around the ends of the new wick (dry) in the > shape of a point. Try it a couple of times you'll see what I mean. Made > small enough, they go right through the holes. Theh, either pull the tape > tips off, or snip 'em, you'll only loose 3/8" of so. > > Where there's smoke, > There's Flyer. > > Dave > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13417	From: Al	Date: 5/29/2001
Subject: Train Movies

Here's is one for the train movie aficionados (movie fans) on this list: I have been trying for a long time to find out the name and get a copy of a B/W movie of the late 30's/early 40's that involved a madman who was terrorizing a railroad company by causing train accidents of all types. I was about 9 or 10 years old when I saw the movie on TV. The finale was when the madman separated the passenger cars from the mail car while the train was going up a steep grade. The passengers were the RR president and board of directors and the RR detectives who thought they had the madman on board (he was). The engineer stopped the engine and put it in reverse to catch up with the passenger cars now going down hill gaining speed. The madman caught the passengers by surprise and held a gun on them as they went faster and faster. He wanted them all to die. The hero somehow got hold of the gun and a fight ensued. The engine caught up with the passenger cars and one by one the passengers got onto the mail car except the hero and villian. The hero knocked out the bad guy and got onto the mail car just before a big curve that went over a trestle. The engineer stopped the train short of this as the passenger cars and the madman, who was now awake and screaming in terror, went over the trestle into the gorge below. I have never seen this movie since and would like to know its name and if it is on video. As I remember it, the show was very exciting. Some other early movies with trains: a) The Little Rascals were in a short movie where a bunch of kids got onto an engine and started it but could not stop it. It is very amusing since the film was speeded up to make it more exciting. Not sure of film title. It is on video. b) John Wayne was in an early sound movie, "The Hurricane Express" (1932), a 12-part serial where another villian, The Wrecker, was destroying a RR by causing wrecks, killing the engineers, yardmen, etc. John Wayne's father (in the film) was killed and Wayne was investigating to find the madman. As serials go, the would be a B movie, but as one of the first sound serials, it was very good with a lot of special effects. It is on video, a shortened version with all episodes combined, and the long original version with all chapters. John Wayne was also in a silent movie as an extra about trains, don't know the title. c) In one of the Sherlock Holmes movies, "Terror by Night" (1946) Holmes is hired by Roland Carstairs to prevent the theft of the Star of Rhodesia, an enormous diamond owned by Carstairs' mother, Lady Margaret. Believing the diamond will be stolen on a train trip from London to Edinburgh, Holmes deftly switches diamonds with Lady Margaret while in her compartment. Soon after, as the train rolled along through the night, Roland is murdered and the fake diamond is stolen. Red herrings abound ..... the hunt was on. This is a very good movie. The train (the model in the movie) looked like an American Flyer train filmed in the dark with smoke and lights from the passenger car windows. If there in anyone with knowledge of the type of model used, I would like to know. Paul should set a list of railroad movies with a short synopsis of each and how it is rated ala Leonard Maltin or the like. We could enlarge our own libraries by using this list as a reference. Enjoy your own "Matinee At The Bijou" with your club members. Al

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13418	From: Gator	Date: 5/29/2001
Subject: New Decals from Oddballs Decals - N, S, HO & O scales

630 GACX 1 bay airslide. (7-70) Painted med gray. Walthers kit. Set will letter 1 car. Black & red lettering. 631 Full color modern day graffitti. Fits on a side of a 3 bay covered hopper. R rated. Set will do one car. 632 Scoular yellow cyl. hopper. (12-79) Intermountain kit. Set will letter 1 car. Green & brown lettering. 633 Nickel Plate Road, black diesel hood unit. (pre-1959) Dulux gold lettering. Set will letter one engine. 634 PTLX Farmers Elevators Co. 3 bay covered hopper. (12-73) Intermountain kit. Painted royal blue, black ends & bays. White lettering. Set will letter one car. 635 Full color modern day graffitti. Fits on a side of a 3 bay covered hopper. Set will letter do 1 car. 636 Missouri Pacific red, white & blue GP-7 "1776" or GP-18 "1976". (1-76) Red, white & blue lettering. Set will letter 1 engine. The N scale sets will letter 2 or 3 cars. S & O scale will letter 1 car. All the above decals refer to HO scale kits on the market. These will also work for other scales. Just pick a car of your choice in the other scales. Prefix numbers for N scale 60-. HO scale 87-. S scale 64-. O scale 48-. N & HO scale retail price $3.25. S & O scale retail price $6.50. These should be in your favorite hobby shop within the next month or so. If ordering direct, please include $1.75 for p&h. Up to date catalog N, HO, S & O scale, $6.00, plus $1.75 for p&h. You buy this catalog once, then every 3 months or so, send me a LSSAE for updates. Fits in a 3 ring binder. -- Tom Stolte - Oddballs Decals N, HO, S & O Scale Model Railroad Decals 26550 227th Street; McLouth, Kansas 66054 Phone: 913-727-6649 - oddballdecal@... Web site http://www.oddballsdecals.com/ Subscribe: OddballsDecals-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Missouri Pacific Photos Web Page: http://www.trainweb.org/mopac/ NMRA Member #121756

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13419	From: mark.p.baker@bt.com	Date: 5/29/2001
Subject: KING'S CROSS RAILWAY BOOK FAIR

A note to let you know that it is time for the Spring King's Cross Railway Book Fair again, which will be held at Keen House, the headquarters of the Model Railway Club (http://www.themodelrailwayclub.org/index.html), at 4, Calshot Street, London, N1, on Saturday 2nd June 2001 between 11:00 and 15:30. Admission is just £1 and refreshments will be available all day from the Club's licensed bar. Further details are available from me direct and details of other similar events may be found on Tony Hillman's 'Railway Collectors Events Diary' web page at http://website.lineone.net/~tony.hillman/diary.html. Mark P. Baker.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13420	From: IronHorse	Date: 5/29/2001
Subject: Re: online source for Wahl Clipper Oil

I sell the same oil for $5.00 with free instructions for proper use on the track. Roger toby_loftus@... wrote: > Hi all, > > For any of you looking for an online source for Wahl Clipper Oil > (good for cleaning track), I just bought some from American Discount > Beauty. Here's a link to their page with the oil: > > http://www.adiscountbeauty.com/page6.html > > Although the shipping was a little high, the total cost for four 4 > oz. bottles was under $16. > > I have no affiliation with this company. I just get so much good > information from this list that I thought I'd share my experience. > > -Toby > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13421	From: Al	Date: 5/29/2001
Subject: Halloween Tree

Nine months or so ago, this email appeared on S-Trains: Message: 5 Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 07:21:08 -0000 From: "Rick {bAss-flyer} Evans" <comic@...> Subject: Four season layout! I had made a comment just a short time ago about putting up a layout in the living room starting in Fall (Hey Paul,...have you found me a Halloween tree yet???) and that way one could have a layout for Halloween, Thanksgiving, and then slowly slide into the Christmas layout. Well it looks like the new issue of CTT's will have an article on a "Four Season Layout". Haven't received my issue as of yet, but was checking out their web-site. Rick. ============================== Rick, and everyone else, Just put up a Great Pumpkin for Halloween, runn your trains around this. Maybe even put a tunnel through it! Have some haunted houses with picket fences, a small pumpkin patch, a lot of cornstalks, some wicked looking trees, some bats, a witch on a broomstick flying over the houses, a bunch of kids dressed up going house to house trick'r'treatin', and a graveyard with funny engravings on the tombstones. Get a plastic or paper stuffed turkey for Thanksgiving. I found at Wal-Mart several different sets of fall and Thanksgiving houses, children, etc. that would work perfectly for Fall and Thanksgiving train shows. Christmas is easy to do, especially with the new Dept. 56 houses that are near S gauge size, of course, ya gotta be rich to buy most of it. Otherwise, do as I do, improvise with regular ceramic houses that K-Mart and others sell that look and measure close to S gauge. Al

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13422	From: IronHorse	Date: 5/29/2001
Subject: Anybody not getting what they paid for.

Hi Guy"S" ; In response to a conversion item talked about in this group, I ordered 4 of those items a couple of weeks ago. I started getting concerned where my order was so I e-mailed the seller a few days ago about, "When do I expect delivery?" Here we are a few days later and no response or delivery. Anybody else having the same problem? At what point do I mention his name if I get no response or delivery? I haven't seen him on this forum since I sent in my order. I wonder if he may be on vacation or something. I should have at least gotten something like. "Your order is received and is being processed. Expect delivery On the date of ______. Even when I asked, (by e-mail) no response. Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13423	From: Peck	Date: 5/29/2001
Subject: Re: Diecast vehicles

Classic Metal Works, well-known for their lines of quality HO and N scale vehicles in particular, currently has an ON-LINE POLL asking what folks would like to see more of.....and one of the choices is 1/64 scale. To record your interest with them, go to www.classicmetalworks.com and scroll down the page a bit. Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13424	From: Dennis Conway	Date: 5/29/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: [S-Trains] Diecast vehicles

Thanks for the posting, Doug! I went directly there and voted for good old 1:64. We're beating out 1:43. <g> Doug Peck wrote: >> Classic Metal Works, well-known for their lines of quality HO and N scale vehicles in particular, currently has an ON-LINE POLL asking what folks would like to see more of.....and one of the choices is 1/64 scale. To record your interest with them, go to www.classicmetalworks.com and scroll down the page a bit. Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13425	From: ljcamp1@aol.com	Date: 5/29/2001
Subject: Set box tape

Does anyone know where to find tape like was used on the set boxes in the 40's and early 50's. I think it was called "asbestic" tape.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13426	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/30/2001
Subject: Re: Halloween Tree

Halloween----- the day we teach our children to be criminals Larry Al wrote: > > Nine months or so ago, this email appeared on S-Trains: >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13427	From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com	Date: 5/30/2001
Subject: Little Rascals video

Good Morning! I am reading, with interest, about the train related movies. The Little Rascals movie with the trains is "Sundown Ltd." It's a silent movie, thus the "speeded up" action. Lots of fun and action. The Rascals, in their ingenious way, build a self propelled locomotive that they can ride in, and pull passenger cars with passengers. I have always wished to have a source of wheels and good junk like they had! Maybe that's why I never through anything away. It'll be good for something, someday! Bill Trefts ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13428	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 5/30/2001
Subject: Re: NASG AF TANK CARS

The NASG AF Gulf Tank Cars are selling well with 408 ordered so far. Place your order with Doug Peck soon. I have not received any comments on the digest for 12 hours and wondered if the system is still functioning. Staying on the NPSG branchline of NASG track, Glenn

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13429	From: Arden Goehring	Date: 5/30/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: [S-Trains] Diecast vehicles

I just checked their site and it was easy to vote. Click the 1/64th bullet and the view results box. Arden Classic Metal Works, well-known for their lines of quality HO and N scale vehicles in particular, currently has an ON-LINE POLL asking what folks would like to see more of.....and one of the choices is 1/64 scale. To record your interest with them, go to www.classicmetalworks.com and scroll down the page a bit. Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13430	From: Peck	Date: 5/30/2001
Subject: Re: "conversion items"??

<Subject: Anybody not getting what they paid for. In response to a conversion item talked about in this group, I ordered 4 of those items a couple of weeks ago. I started getting concerned where my order was so I e-mailed the seller a few days ago about, "When do I expect delivery?" Here we are a few days later and no response or delivery. > Unclear what this refers to, but I CAN tell you that IF it refers to the Can-motors, the manufacturers are presently away on a vacation trip, and will be returning next week, I believe. Meanwhile, we DO have the can motors in stock here at PLHS, both AC and DC. Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13431	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 5/30/2001
Subject: Re: Diecast vehicles

Everyone should do this as 1/64th is not far behind 1/87th. We will have a hard time catching 1/160th though. To make it easier click: http://www.classicmetalworks.com/ Click the 1/64th bullet and the view results box. Classic Metal Works, well-known for their lines of quality HO and N scale vehicles in particular, currently has an ON-LINE POLL asking what folks would like to see more of.....and one of the choices is 1/64 scale. To record your interest with them, go to www.classicmetalworks.com and scroll down the page a bit.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13432	From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton	Date: 5/30/2001
Subject: American Flyer function at 2001 TCA Convention in Chattanooga

Hello, S Fans, An update on our plans for the "American Flyer Trains....KEEP 'EM RUNNING" meeting being held at the TCA Convention In Chattanooga, TN from 1PM to 4PM on Thursday, June 28 in the host hotel: AF dealers, at our request, are responding with door prizes. We have some nice items, including original AF advertisements, and gift certificates, to award the lucky winners. We are in contact with an individual in his late seventies who is probably one of the last surviving field employees of A. C. Gilbert from the early 1950's. Chances are excellent that he will be joining us at our meeting on 6/28. Anyone who has the opportunity to meet him (as I have) will remember the experience, and his stories about A. C. Gilbert, forever. Hope that some of you on this list can attend. Any questions, please contact me. More (much more) to follow..... Regards, Steve Pendleton [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13433	From: Howell S Jobbins	Date: 5/30/2001
Subject: Re: Diecast vehicles

Hi Glenn, I was 294 for 1/64 , HO and N were over 400, but "S" was ahead of O . On Wed, 30 May 2001 18:15:54 -0400 Glenn Ritter <gartrain@...> writes: > Everyone should do this as > 1/64th is not far behind 1/87th. > We will have a hard time catching > 1/160th though. > To make it easier click: > http://www.classicmetalworks.com/ > Click the 1/64th bullet > and the view results box. > Classic Metal Works, well-known for > their lines of quality HO and N scale > vehicles in particular, currently has an > ON-LINE POLL asking what folks > would like to see more of.....and one > of the choices is 1/64 scale. > To record your interest with them, go to > www.classicmetalworks.com > and scroll down the page a bit. > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13434	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 5/30/2001
Subject: Vacation over

Hi everybody, Sam and I are back from British Columbia where we rode the Cariboo Steam Special for three days. Only problem, the Consolidation that was supposed to pull us was kaput. We had to settle for an FP7A that was built in Canada in 1952. A great ride nevertheless. On board we met several other S-gaugers including Michael Paschall who is the membership chairman of NASG. He went on from there to ride another Canadian train and we came home. The wire that we needed to complete the can motor orders on hand was here when I got home tonight and those of you that have not received your motors yet let me assure you that they will go out tomorrow and Friday. Thanks for holding off the emails while we were gone. WE IS BACK...business as usual... Steve & Sam [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13435	From: joe messinger	Date: 5/30/2001
Subject: 443 Trailing Truck

Would anyone know where I might find a trailing truck, either repo. or original, for an A.F. 443 Hudson HO locomotive? I have tried several train parts suppliers with no luck. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Joe M. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13436	From: Douglass Allen	Date: 5/31/2001
Subject: Digest 1031

I wouldn't count on that survey on scale diecast having a whole lot of impact. Yes I voted for 1/64. But over 88% of respondents voted for N.? Come on that's totally skewed. It would appear that the NANG (if there is one) mobilized their entire membership to vote. N doesn't have anywhere near that share of the market. They're less than HO and HO doesn't have that many. Item 2: There is NO correlation between a movie being silent and being speeded up for comedy effect. The Little Rascals (aka Our Gang) had speeded up action scenes in many of their films both sound and silent. Many other directors used the same device, as recently as the 1990's. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13437	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/31/2001
Subject: Re: Digest 1031

Silent movies were filmed at 16 frames per second. Today's movies are filmed at 24 frames per second. TV is filmed at 30 frames per second Thank you gentlemen Larry Jackman Douglass Allen wrote: Item 2: There is NO correlation between a movie being silent and being speeded up for comedy effect. The Little Rascals (aka Our Gang) had speeded up action scenes in many of their films both sound and silent. Many other directors used the same device, as recently as the 1990's. >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13438	From: Rick Evans	Date: 5/31/2001
Subject: Only a test......please delete.....

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13439	From: Rick Evans	Date: 5/31/2001
Subject: THAT many in "N" scale.....(die-cast survey)

Douglass wrote.... ***(((But over 88% of respondents voted for N.? Come on that's totally skewed. It would appear that the NANG (if there is one) mobilized their entire membership to vote. N doesn't have anywhere near that share of the market. They're less than HO and HO doesn't have that many.)))*** I too, wondered the same thing! If you check the other surveys at the site,.."N" scale has rather large numbers!! Hmmmmm..... Of course I added my vote for 1/64th. Rick (I wish I could be be the eye doctor for the "N" scalers) Evans.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13440	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/31/2001
Subject: Re: Digest 1031

Hi all, As Lawrence posted, silent movies were filmed at a slower speed than "talkies", which is why you often see silent movies that seem too fast--the projector is set for the "talkie" speed. But there is another trick used (at least in them "old days" ) called "under cranking" whereby the scene (action, usually) is filmed with the camera running slow, so when replayed at normal speed, the action seems "lively" (this helps when doing complicated stuff that can be done easier in "slow motion" like some sword duels. Of course we AF fans can achieve the same thing by running our trains at "'L' speed"! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13441	From: schwallieus@yahoo.com	Date: 5/31/2001
Subject: Downs Models tank cars

Does anyone know a good source for the tanktrain tank car model that Downs did a little while ago? Thanks

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13442	From: John Foley	Date: 5/31/2001
Subject: Steamtown USA 2001 News

Hi Folks This may be interesting to those that are coming to the NASG Convention. The Electric City Trolley Museum is start a new program titled ' The Electric's City's Trolley Through Time' This will be a musical living history presentation preformed at the Trolly Museum. Saturday and Sundays, beginning from June 23 and continuing until August 26. All performances will begin at 2 PM in the museum and include a trolley ride The one and one half hour historical production features a professional cast, period costuming, music and dance Audience members will be greeted by a singing conductor, transported back in time to 1886 by the electric trolley's inventor, Charles Van de Poele. The Saturday that we will be their is July 28th and the show stars at 2pm. $15. per adult $13 per child. If interested call to make a reservation at 570 963-6590 between 9am-5pm Don't delay as seats are limited. John Foley

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13443	From: johnbraker@webtv.net	Date: 5/31/2001
Subject: stopping in switches

dear group members, would anyone have ideas why my af locos have a habit of stopping dead in a switch-usually with the tender wheels in the base area? pushed past or back it usually will resume normal activity.there is no evidence of tire shortage',and all four lines are fiber pin insulated aswell as having all base rails in alignment.manual or remote ,the effect is the same-annoying. thanks, j.c.braker [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13444	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 5/31/2001
Subject: NASG Election

The election results are final. I triple checked the Central region because it was close but these are our new officers. As in the past the new officers will be installed at the General Membership Meeting of the NASG Convention. An article will appear in the June, 01 Dispatch which is soon to go to press. President (Total Ballots 581 out of 1743 sent) Roy Hoffman Treasurer Michael Shea Eastern Vice President (Eastern Ballots 347) William H. Fuhrman Central Vice President (Central Ballots 146) Tom Nimelli Western Vice President (Western Ballots 88) Gilbert Hulin Respectfully submitted, Glenn Ritter NASG Secretary

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13445	From: ronnat@cros.net	Date: 5/31/2001
Subject: Re: stopping in switches

first lets check the wheels & rails &make/em clean &shiney as best you can then check the moveable frog to see if it is tight on the pivot pin & contacts in the base are there & clean next and just as important check the wheel sets on the tender to see they are in gauge as this is a commonly overlooked area as these trains have aged I have found the plastic wheels will not stay on the raised wheel seat of the axles due to wear and at that point it is best to get new wheels . also a problem on hudsons & northerns is the axle hole in the side frames wear allowing the side frame to hang lower so when going through switches the side frame will touch & cause a short on the diverging rail & stalling / cycleing the e unit . in 30 yrs.of repairing trains my best fix for this is to use a small brass eyelet as a bushing such as found in the small servo mounting kit made by Du- Bro. this is intended for R/C models but we can use every thing in the # 114 kit and here is the best part the eyelets/bushing are easy to install just remove the wheel set put one eyelet in the hole & one on the other eng of the axle & reinstall in the truck & after doing both end axles check truck to see that it sets square on the track & adjust if needed. you do not need a bushing on the center axle if so equipped hope this helps Ron Inscho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13446	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 5/31/2001
Subject: Re: Downs Models tank cars

Manhiem Machine and Tool is running them as we speak. Merlin is vwey busy right now. TOm D. ----- Original Message ----- From: <schwallieus@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 5:17 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Downs Models tank cars > Does anyone know a good source for the tanktrain tank car model that > Downs did a little while ago? > > Thanks > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13447	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 5/31/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Steamtown USA 2001 News

This is "living history "type presentation and if it is anything like the rough draft I reviewed, it will be well worth the $. THe intent is to use professional actors and aspects of the museum to support the presentation. Tom D. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Foley" <foley164@...> To: "S-Scale@egroups" <S-Scale@yahoogroups.com>; "s-trains@egroups" <s-trains@egroups.com> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 8:07 PM Subject: [S-Scale] Steamtown USA 2001 News > Hi Folks > This may be interesting to those that are coming to the NASG > Convention. The Electric City Trolley Museum is start a new > program titled > ' The Electric's City's Trolley Through Time' > > This will be a musical living history presentation preformed at the > Trolly Museum. Saturday and Sundays, beginning from June 23 > and continuing until August 26. All performances will begin at > 2 PM in the museum and include a trolley ride > The one and one half hour historical production features a > professional cast, period costuming, music and dance > Audience members will be greeted by a singing conductor, > transported back in time to 1886 by the electric trolley's > inventor, Charles Van de Poele. > The Saturday that we will be their is July 28th and the show stars at 2pm. > $15. per adult > $13 per child. > If interested call to make a reservation at 570 963-6590 between 9am-5pm > Don't delay as seats are limited. > John Foley > > > The topic is S Scale please keep your messages 'on-topic'. > To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13448	From: Gary Chidester	Date: 6/1/2001
Subject: New layout

Can I ask for opinions from those more experienced than I on what track/balast would you use if you were starting a new layout? I have some clean A.F. track, but like the looks of the Gargraves or S-helper. gary

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13449	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 6/1/2001
Subject: Downs Models

On Thu, 31 May 2001 21:17:00 -0000, scwallieus@... wrote: <Subject: Downs Models tank cars < <Does anyone know a good source for the tanktrain tank <car model that <Downs did a little while ago? Why not go to the source? Down was purchased by Manheim Machine and Tool Company and is owned by Marlin Becker. This very nice gentleman can be contacted at (717) 295-4966. His fax number is (919) 627-3980. E-mail is mmttrains@.... His address is 139 Nevin Street, Lancaster, PA 17603. Marlin is very nice to work with and is eager to please S gauge. Hope this helps. Joe ===== Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,100 part lines American Models ########################## S-Helper Service Official Licensed Dealer for Gilbert Reproductions joestrainrepair@... Master Charge/Visa __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13450	From: davedesian@clarkus.com	Date: 6/1/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1032

Re: Track Ballast: I have used the following approach for my AF track and AF Switches. I have taken AF track and spray painted them completely using the cheapest flat black paint available. After the paint has dried, I quickly wire brush the top of the rail with my bench grinder wire wheel. the top becomes shiny clean and the rest of the track is black. I would place newspaper outside with the track lined up like soldiers. I could quickly paint hundreds of section of track in a short period of time. It is something that looks hard but actually easy to do. that process will always have my name on it. I then mount the track and add Beaver Boy's wooden ties between the AF ties. I place two wooden ties between each metal tie. I then use Ballast King's gray rubber ballast glued in place with a solution of white glue/water/dish soap Couple of tips: When mounting the track, I use a small hammer to tap each rail to the last mounted track. this gives a smooth rail look. Also, by spray painting the track black, you can buy the most ugly track under the tables. Instead of flat black paint, one could use brown primer paint for a rusty track look. I liked the black look based on the early AF black track look. As long as the track is physically straight. you can get old track that is painted or with some rust areas. When it is painted and top rails cleaned, it looks great. I like the system because I am a Hi-rail operator, I have gotten track for about 10 cents a straight, the system marries into AF switches, the rubber ballast is soft to the touch, looks great and over all I believe it is less expensive. However, it is a time consuming process. For me it is mindless activity. It is therapy to work on a small section at a time. I have received many compliments on the look of my layout. It really does not look like an AF track system after you dress it up. S-Trains@yahoogroups.com on 06/01/2001 04:35:18 AM Please respond to S-Trains@yahoogroups.com To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com cc: Subject: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1032 S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ There are 13 messages in this issue. Topics in this digest: 1. Digest 1031 From: "Douglass Allen" <douglass.allen@...> 2. Re: Digest 1031 From: lawrence jackman <ljack70117@...> 3. Only a test......please delete..... From: "Rick Evans" <comic@...> 4. THAT many in "N" scale.....(die-cast survey) From: "Rick Evans" <comic@...> 5. Re: Digest 1031 From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> 6. Downs Models tank cars From: schwallieus@... 7. Steamtown USA 2001 News From: John Foley <foley164@...> 8. stopping in switches From: johnbraker@... 9. NASG Election From: Glenn Ritter <gartrain@...> 10. Re: stopping in switches From: ronnat@... 11. Re: Downs Models tank cars From: Thomas@... 12. Re: [S-Scale] Steamtown USA 2001 News From: Thomas@... 13. New layout From: Gary Chidester <garychidester@...> ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 1 Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 10:35:56 -0700 From: "Douglass Allen" <douglass.allen@...> Subject: Digest 1031 I wouldn't count on that survey on scale diecast having a whole lot of impact. Yes I voted for 1/64. But over 88% of respondents voted for N.? Come on that's totally skewed. It would appear that the NANG (if there is one) mobilized their entire membership to vote. N doesn't have anywhere near that share of the market. They're less than HO and HO doesn't have that many. Item 2: There is NO correlation between a movie being silent and being speeded up for comedy effect. The Little Rascals (aka Our Gang) had speeded up action scenes in many of their films both sound and silent. Many other directors used the same device, as recently as the 1990's. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 12:33:33 -0400 From: lawrence jackman <ljack70117@...> Subject: Re: Digest 1031 Silent movies were filmed at 16 frames per second. Today's movies are filmed at 24 frames per second. TV is filmed at 30 frames per second Thank you gentlemen Larry Jackman Douglass Allen wrote: Item 2: There is NO correlation between a movie being silent and being speeded up for comedy effect. The Little Rascals (aka Our Gang) had speeded up action scenes in many of their films both sound and silent. Many other directors used the same device, as recently as the 1990's. > ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 3 Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 17:55:46 -0000 From: "Rick Evans" <comic@...> Subject: Only a test......please delete..... ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 4 Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 18:04:19 -0000 From: "Rick Evans" <comic@...> Subject: THAT many in "N" scale.....(die-cast survey) Douglass wrote.... ***(((But over 88% of respondents voted for N.? Come on that's totally skewed. It would appear that the NANG (if there is one) mobilized their entire membership to vote. N doesn't have anywhere near that share of the market. They're less than HO and HO doesn't have that many.)))*** I too, wondered the same thing! If you check the other surveys at the site,.."N" scale has rather large numbers!! Hmmmmm..... Of course I added my vote for 1/64th. Rick (I wish I could be be the eye doctor for the "N" scalers) Evans. ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 5 Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 12:11:52 -0700 From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> Subject: Re: Digest 1031 Hi all, As Lawrence posted, silent movies were filmed at a slower speed than "talkies", which is why you often see silent movies that seem too fast--the projector is set for the "talkie" speed. But there is another trick used (at least in them "old days" ) called "under cranking" whereby the scene (action, usually) is filmed with the camera running slow, so when replayed at normal speed, the action seems "lively" (this helps when doing complicated stuff that can be done easier in "slow motion" like some sword duels. Of course we AF fans can achieve the same thing by running our trains at "'L' speed"! S' David D. ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 6 Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 21:17:00 -0000 From: schwallieus@... Subject: Downs Models tank cars Does anyone know a good source for the tanktrain tank car model that Downs did a little while ago? Thanks ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 7 Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 20:07:10 -0400 From: John Foley <foley164@...> Subject: Steamtown USA 2001 News Hi Folks This may be interesting to those that are coming to the NASG Convention. The Electric City Trolley Museum is start a new program titled ' The Electric's City's Trolley Through Time' This will be a musical living history presentation preformed at the Trolly Museum. Saturday and Sundays, beginning from June 23 and continuing until August 26. All performances will begin at 2 PM in the museum and include a trolley ride The one and one half hour historical production features a professional cast, period costuming, music and dance Audience members will be greeted by a singing conductor, transported back in time to 1886 by the electric trolley's inventor, Charles Van de Poele. The Saturday that we will be their is July 28th and the show stars at 2pm. $15. per adult $13 per child. If interested call to make a reservation at 570 963-6590 between 9am-5pm Don't delay as seats are limited. John Foley ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 8 Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 21:02:25 -0400 (EDT) From: johnbraker@... Subject: stopping in switches dear group members, would anyone have ideas why my af locos have a habit of stopping dead in a switch-usually with the tender wheels in the base area? pushed past or back it usually will resume normal activity.there is no evidence of tire shortage',and all four lines are fiber pin insulated aswell as having all base rails in alignment.manual or remote ,the effect is the same-annoying. thanks, j.c.braker [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 9 Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 21:18:14 -0400 From: Glenn Ritter <gartrain@...> Subject: NASG Election The election results are final. I triple checked the Central region because it was close but these are our new officers. As in the past the new officers will be installed at the General Membership Meeting of the NASG Convention. An article will appear in the June, 01 Dispatch which is soon to go to press. President (Total Ballots 581 out of 1743 sent) Roy Hoffman Treasurer Michael Shea Eastern Vice President (Eastern Ballots 347) William H. Fuhrman Central Vice President (Central Ballots 146) Tom Nimelli Western Vice President (Western Ballots 88) Gilbert Hulin Respectfully submitted, Glenn Ritter NASG Secretary ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 10 Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 02:15:11 -0000 From: ronnat@... Subject: Re: stopping in switches first lets check the wheels & rails &make/em clean &shiney as best you can then check the moveable frog to see if it is tight on the pivot pin & contacts in the base are there & clean next and just as important check the wheel sets on the tender to see they are in gauge as this is a commonly overlooked area as these trains have aged I have found the plastic wheels will not stay on the raised wheel seat of the axles due to wear and at that point it is best to get new wheels . also a problem on hudsons & northerns is the axle hole in the side frames wear allowing the side frame to hang lower so when going through switches the side frame will touch & cause a short on the diverging rail & stalling / cycleing the e unit . in 30 yrs.of repairing trains my best fix for this is to use a small brass eyelet as a bushing such as found in the small servo mounting kit made by Du- Bro. this is intended for R/C models but we can use every thing in the # 114 kit and here is the best part the eyelets/bushing are easy to install just remove the wheel set put one eyelet in the hole & one on the other eng of the axle & reinstall in the truck & after doing both end axles check truck to see that it sets square on the track & adjust if needed. you do not need a bushing on the center axle if so equipped hope this helps Ron Inscho ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 11 Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 22:55:15 -0400 From: Thomas@... Subject: Re: Downs Models tank cars Manhiem Machine and Tool is running them as we speak. Merlin is vwey busy right now. TOm D. ----- Original Message ----- From: <schwallieus@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 5:17 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Downs Models tank cars > Does anyone know a good source for the tanktrain tank car model that > Downs did a little while ago? > > Thanks > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 12 Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 23:01:36 -0400 From: Thomas@... Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Steamtown USA 2001 News This is "living history "type presentation and if it is anything like the rough draft I reviewed, it will be well worth the $. THe intent is to use professional actors and aspects of the museum to support the presentation. Tom D. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Foley" <foley164@...> To: "S-Scale@egroups" <S-Scale@yahoogroups.com>; "s-trains@egroups" <s-trains@egroups.com> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 8:07 PM Subject: [S-Scale] Steamtown USA 2001 News > Hi Folks > This may be interesting to those that are coming to the NASG > Convention. The Electric City Trolley Museum is start a new > program titled > ' The Electric's City's Trolley Through Time' > > This will be a musical living history presentation preformed at the > Trolly Museum. Saturday and Sundays, beginning from June 23 > and continuing until August 26. All performances will begin at > 2 PM in the museum and include a trolley ride > The one and one half hour historical production features a > professional cast, period costuming, music and dance > Audience members will be greeted by a singing conductor, > transported back in time to 1886 by the electric trolley's > inventor, Charles Van de Poele. > The Saturday that we will be their is July 28th and the show stars at 2pm. > $15. per adult > $13 per child. > If interested call to make a reservation at 570 963-6590 between 9am-5pm > Don't delay as seats are limited. > John Foley > > > The topic is S Scale please keep your messages 'on-topic'. > To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 13 Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 01:34:33 -0600 From: Gary Chidester <garychidester@...> Subject: New layout Can I ask for opinions from those more experienced than I on what track/balast would you use if you were starting a new layout? I have some clean A.F. track, but like the looks of the Gargraves or S-helper. gary ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13451	From: Scott Holm	Date: 6/1/2001
Subject: Re: stopping in switches

--- johnbraker@... wrote: > would anyone have ideas why my af locos have a habit of stopping dead in a switch... If you can actually get the loco to stop dead with no power (not neutral) you can use a jumper cable to test every possible source of disconnect. When you get power with the jumper you can narrow down to the exact spot where there's a break in the circuit. On a switch, while one of the tender wheels is on the plastic section, the other tender wheel of that truck needs to be making electrical contact with a powered rail. You need to identify why it isn't. Is the wheel touching the rail? Is the wheel or the rail dirty? I had a situation a couple of days ago where an engine was cutting out and activating the reverse unit while going across a particular section of track in a turn. Going slow enough I got it to stop dead with no power at a specific spot. Using a jumper I connected spots on the track right under the tender wheels to adjacent track sections and this did not start the engine, so this ruled out a track connection problem. Jumping one of the rails to one the tender wheels got me power to the engine, so that rail was not making contact with that wheel. Examining the rail revealed a gray crud buildup on the top of the rail, which was not visible unless viewed up close. This crud was particularly obstinate, but when finally cleaned completely off the problems went away. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13452	From: Douglass Allen	Date: 6/1/2001
Subject: S-Fest

The S-Fest web site is up and running. Visit www.s-fest.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13453	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 6/1/2001
Subject: Re: Digest 1031

Douglass Allen wrote: > > . > You have not, and I'm sure would not, disagree with my original allegation > which started this correspondence. Namely there is no direct correlation > between speeded up action and whether a film is sound or silent, or even > during what era it was made. Slower framing rates may make pictures > flicker; but they do not in themselves speed up the action. The speed up is > the result of a difference between filming rate and projection rate. > We both may live to see the demise of film altogether, God forbid. > Let me hear from you again. I enjoy the education and the reparte'. Totally true. I have never seen an 8 mm camera that had two speeds. Of course there are a lot of pro stuff out there that you can do most any thing with. I saw a program on tv once that shows the bullet fired from a gun and it's travel to and through a balloon. It show the bullet start to senter the balloon the disappear in side and then exit. the bullet was about a foot from the balloon before the balloon exploded. They also showed other slow motion thing which is really high speed photo taking not slow motion. Also in movie film making, each individual frame is very poor quality but you do not notice it because it is "moving" to your eye. That is why when they stop frame a frame it is very blurred and grainy. When I ran movies it was the old carbon arc for light and you had to manualy change reels by hand. Not like it is to day where the whole thing is hooked in to one continuous real and feed with an automatic feeder and xenon (pronounced zenon) bulb. Oh things change with time. Thank you gentleman Larry Having more fun than one human should be allowed to have

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13454	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 6/1/2001
Subject: Re: New layout

For starting from scratch I would use AM code 148. Their #5 switches work great with AF and Hirail. A good second choice is SHS. It is second only because it's a little pricey. Gargraves is third because it's rail is grossly out of scale. It needs ballast to look good. Flyer isn't bad with rubber roadbed, (really pricey) but ugly as sin w/o roadbed. By the time you put roadbed and ballast on AM it gets more expensive, but AM also looks reasonably good on cork roadbed painted gray w/o ballast. All of the above is one man's opinion and applies to Hirail/AF only, not to scale. If you get a lots of opinions let us know, maybe we can have an opinion poll. Gary Chidester wrote: > > Can I ask for opinions from those more experienced than I on what > track/balast would you use if you were starting a new layout? I have some > clean A.F. track, but like the looks of the Gargraves or S-helper. > > gary > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13455	From: Euell Johnson	Date: 6/1/2001
Subject: Re: Downs Models tank cars

Do they have a web site and what is the address? EJ ----- Original Message ----- From: <Thomas@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>; <schwallieus@...> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 9:55 PM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Downs Models tank cars > Manhiem Machine and Tool is running them as we speak. Merlin is vwey busy > right now. > TOm D. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <schwallieus@...> > To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 5:17 PM > Subject: [S-Trains] Downs Models tank cars > > > > Does anyone know a good source for the tanktrain tank car model that > > Downs did a little while ago? > > > > Thanks > > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13456	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 6/1/2001
Subject: Re: New layout

For an very inexpensive ballast, I've had good luck with kitty litter. Some brands have a blend of gray granules that look good as S gauge ballast. I also blend it with the more expensive Woodland Scenics ballast to stretch it out a bit. Of course, I don't own a cat. Roy --- In S-Trains@y..., Chuck Smith <cesmith@e...> wrote: > For starting from scratch I would use AM code 148. Their #5 switches > work great with AF and Hirail. A good second choice is SHS. It is > second only because it's a little pricey. Gargraves is third because > it's rail is grossly out of scale. It needs ballast to look good. > Flyer isn't bad with rubber roadbed, (really pricey) but ugly as sin w/o > roadbed. > > By the time you put roadbed and ballast on AM it gets more expensive, > but AM also looks reasonably good on cork roadbed painted gray w/o > ballast. > > All of the above is one man's opinion and applies to Hirail/AF only, not > to scale. If you get a lots of opinions let us know, maybe we can have > an opinion poll. > > Gary Chidester wrote: > > > > Can I ask for opinions from those more experienced than I on what > > track/balast would you use if you were starting a new layout? I have some > > clean A.F. track, but like the looks of the Gargraves or S-helper. > > > > gary > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13457	From: riker@webspan.net	Date: 6/1/2001
Subject: S-Helper F-3's

Hi All, I just purchased a new S-Helper F-3 A&B unit set at a local hobby shop. It's quite impressive. Although, the store had all 11 varieties in stock, being a fan of the New York Central, I choose a 2 tone grey lightning stripe for passenger service. The attention to detail is right on the money. The paint work is beautiful. In operation, the units run smooth and I am quite pleased with the sound. Anyone who has one on order will be satisfied. If someone would like to purchase an F-3, you should contact George at LeBlanc Trains (billeblanc@... or 718-727-6126). He charged only $425.00 for the A&B. He also said he'd ship for $10.00 extra. Riker

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13458	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 6/1/2001
Subject: GOING ON VACATION

Please disconnect me for a couple of weeks as I will be away on Vacation. Thanks Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13459	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 6/1/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, June 3, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13460	From: busyboy	Date: 6/1/2001
Subject: Moviespeeds

Larry Jackman said: >Silent movies were filmed at 16 frames per second. Today's movies are >filmed at 24 frames per second. TV is filmed at 30 frames per second. Well, kinda. Silent movies filmed on hand cranked cameras approximated 16 fps. One of the reasons old films look herky-jerky is because the motion sometimes is. Projecting at 16 fps helps and lets you more readily see the inconsistencies. 24 fps projection has been the norm all along, with the idea being to gloss over the jerkiness. Sync sound movie cameras run at uniform crystal controlled speeds. 24 fps was the standard accepted when sound came in. TV shows are shot in 24 fps. TV itself uses a 30 frame like standard as it's sync is based on 60 Hz electrical current. 30 fps was used on some filmed TV shows, but it looked like video, not film. It also used 25% more film. An attempt was made (notably on "Dallas") to save film by using a 3 perf (instead of 4) pulldown. That has been largely abandoned. A 3/2 display of frames brings 24 fps film into sync with a 30 frame system. Two to go, (then three), Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13461	From: dav21248@aol.com	Date: 6/1/2001
Subject: Track For New Lay-Out

I've bought 2 of the new type switches from Gargrave. The first problem I had was nothing would go through the curved sections without derailing. I solved this problem by lengthening the guide rails to 2 1/2 inches which I made out of flyer rail. Second problem was, the engines with sliding electrical pick-up shoes go throught the switch, the pick-up shoot drops down in the frog and stops the engine dead. I have not been able to solve this problem as yet. If you use Gargrave track you will have to use American Flyer switches or you won't be able to run engines with the electrical pick-up shoes.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13462	From: Peck	Date: 6/1/2001
Subject: Tanktrain

<Does anyone know a good source for the tanktrain tank car model that Downs did a little while ago? > We still have one or two of the 3-car sets in stock. Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13463	From: IronHorse	Date: 6/1/2001
Subject: Re: New layout

Gary Chidester wrote: > Can I ask for opinions from those more experienced than I on what > track/balast would you use if you were starting a new layout? I have some > clean A.F. track, but like the looks of the Gargraves or S-helper. > > gary The answer to your question depends what you are using for rolling stock. Hirail or scale ? I would use the smallest rail I could to match scale. I make my own ties from bass wood strips. Buy granulated materials from woodland scenic for ballast. Mix with powdered glue. (If you can find it) After all is in place (ties rail and ballast) spray the ballast with water to activate the glue. a few drops of liquid ivory soap in the water is a must so the ballast will absorb the water properly. So the big question is, --- Is powered glue still available ? Comments anyone ? Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13464	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 6/1/2001
Subject: Re: Moviespeeds

While never showing movies on tv, I was told the showed regular 24 fps at at 24 fps but show the first frame twice and the second one three times, twice, next three times and so on. I never figured what this does to the matching the 30 fps of tv. If the federal government had not interfered we would probably have had good television by using the CBS color system instead of the RCA system. CBS was the best color but could not be received by he then B/W sets of the day as B/W. and good old uncle Sammy forced the inferior RCA color on us. busyboy wrote: > > Larry Jackman said: > >Silent movies were filmed at 16 frames per second. Today's movies are

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13465	From: M.McConnell	Date: 6/1/2001
Subject: Latest news on the Altoona K4 restoration

Our club spent the Memorial Day weekend at Steamtown and we were lucky enough to con a private tour of the backshop area from one of the staff. I know there has been speculation on the status of the restoration of the K4 from Altoona, so I took the opportunity to snap a few pictures - and uploaded them to the files section. There are two new files, K4-2001 and K4-2001c. I don't think the K4 will be anywhere near ready to run by the end of the year, let alone the NASG convention. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/Altoona%20K4/ Steam town has had more bad luck this year too. The Baldwin 0-6-0 was taken in for it's scheduled maintenance and a serious problem was discovered in the crown sheet. It will be out of service for an extended time. I have uploaded a picture of that also. Finally, the 3712 Canadian National that was running the excursion trips had an accident last January. We were told a rail on a siding track rolled over when they were running the engine past the enginehouse. The engine de-railed and almost rolled over - but managed to remain upright with all eight drivers on the ground. It's now also in the repair shop waiting for a new front truck. It MAY be back in service by the convention. Right now the only operating steam engine is the 3254 Canadian National. At least the Nickle-Plate GP is still running! If you want to see some other pictures I took of our club's trip - they are on the SJSG WEB site at: http://www.trainweb.org/sjsg At the main page, click on the "Club Events" button.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13468	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 6/1/2001
Subject: Re: New layout

Gary wrote: >Can I ask for opinions from those more experienced than I on what >track/balast would you use if you were starting a new layout? I >have some clean A.F. track, but like the looks of the Gargraves or S- >helper. Since the context of your question seems to involve tinplate or hi- rail, I'll assume that's the "universe" you're asking about (not scale.) My modular layout uses AF and Gargraves, AF in the area meant to be unabashed tinplate, Gargraves in the hi-rail area. The AF does fine, being durable enough, but the rail top does tend to begin corroding if several months pass between operating sessions. (That can happen with a mod layout that is too big to assemble in a typical house.) As for the Gargraves, the tinplated steel track has the same problem as the AF, The rail top rusts if not used frequently. Additionally, Gargraves rail can be dented fairly easily, and this has proven to be troublesome on a portable modular system. Gargraves track with stainless steel rail is available (which solves the corrosion problem), but the thin, hollow rail is still relatively easy to damage. I'm considering ripping the Gargraves off of the nine sections of my layout that use it (no small task) and replacing it with American S Gauge track, which employs solid nickel/silver code 172 rail and interfaces with AF straightforwardly. If I was making a hi-rail layout with the same track over the entire system, I would still go with American S Gauge. It can be found here: http://trainweb.com/crocon/strack.html No, I'm not affiliated with ASG. Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13469	From: TPDavis7@aol.com	Date: 6/2/2001
Subject: Temporary unsubscribe

I am going on vacation, please temporarly remove from the list. Thanks [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13470	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 6/2/2001
Subject: TEMPORARY UNSUBSCRIBE

On vacation for a couple of weeks. Please unsubscribe me on a temporary basis. Thanks Michael - Kite1@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13471	From: rxman46321@aol.com	Date: 6/2/2001
Subject: Ballast

I've used bird grit for ballast. It comes in several sizes and is CHEAP $10.00 or less for a 50 pound bag. It's chips of granite and other real rock. John Griffin

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13472	From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton	Date: 6/2/2001
Subject: American Flyer Function at TCA Convention

Hello. everyone, Just a note for any one who missed my earlier mails on this list. There will be a (first ever) American Flyer session at a TCA Convention. We have dubbed the meeting, "AMERICAN FLYER TRAINS...KEEP 'EM RUNNING!!!!!" Please come join us if you can...1PM to 4PM Thursday, June 28 in the TCA host hotel, the Chattanooga Marriott. Look forward to fellowship, door prizes, discussions on operating/repairs, and plenty of handouts to take home. Let's Keep American Flyer Trains Running!!! Regards, Steve Pendleton [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13473	From: busyboy	Date: 6/2/2001
Subject: Re: Moviespeeds

> While never showing movies on tv, I was told the showed regular 24 fps > at at 24 fps but show the first frame twice and the second one three > times, twice, next three times and so on. I never figured what this does > to the matching the 30 fps of tv. If the federal government had not > interfered we would probably have had good television by using the CBS > color system instead of the RCA system. CBS was the best color but could > not be received by he then B/W sets of the day as B/W. and good old > uncle Sammy forced the inferior RCA color on us. You are correct on all counts, Larry. The system is called a 3/2 pulldown and is simply a multiplier to find a least common denominator for TV and film frame rates. You can see weird artifacts of this during a long panning shot where items passed seem to reappear or in some wheel motion, especially wagon wheels that seem to go backwards. The government standardization, currently referred to as "backward compatibility" was a benign attempt of the federal government to protect the investment of millions of Americans in their television sets. Instantly obsoleting sets bought only yesterday would have been anathema to business. No company really needed the feds to tell them not to alienate all their customers. This would have been better left to self regulation via competition. It is tough though, because I still have several fully functioning Apple II's with pretty sophisticated software on 5 1/4 inch floppies. The Salvation Army thrift store won't take them as a donation. If the government had stopped Microsoft and forced compatibility, computers would never have moved ahead as they have done. Take American Flyer for example. It has nothing at all to do with this discussion. It's just my obligatory train reference. Sorry. I'll get back on topic. Discussion over. Off list if you want to continue. Two to go (back to Flyerville where everything is in sync but there is no "NSYNC") Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13474	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 6/2/2001
Subject: Switch problem

In a message dated 06/02/2001 2:13:12 AM Mountain Daylight Time, S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes: > Message: 8 > Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 21:02:25 -0400 (EDT) > From: johnbraker@... > Subject: stopping in switches > > dear group members, would > anyone have ideas why my af locos have a habit of stopping dead in a > switch-usually with the tender wheels in the base area? pushed past or > back it usually will resume normal activity.there is no evidence of tire > shortage',and all four lines are fiber pin insulated aswell as having > all base rails in alignment.manual or remote ,the effect is the > same-annoying. thanks, > j.c.braker > > > > If I'm reading this right and you have insulated pins in all six of the rail ends, that's the problem. You aren't getting any power to the switch rails. The four posts on the switches do not provide power to the rails, they only power the frog movement and the light. The electrical current to the rails on the switch is provided by the three pieces of track that are adjacent to the switch. That's why the switches came with metal pins. Regards.....Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13475	From: busyboy	Date: 6/2/2001
Subject: Movies and Trains

That episode of the Rascals that was speeded up centered around the kids jumping on a Santa Fe engine and driving it up and down the tracks in southern California. There are some great roundhouse and turntable shots and if you have a period roster you can identify many of the engines by number. There are at least a dozen. Rascals movies were sync sound and run at 24 frames per second. Parts of this episode were intentionally sped up to force the illusion of speed. This was not a case of silent film undercranking. I have not seen the episode where the kids build a train. I would love to again see the one where they built a car. I loved that one when I was 10! Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13476	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 6/2/2001
Subject: Re: Moviespeeds

How about HDTV to day??? The new set I just bought today will not operate on it tomorrow. So back then they could do what they are going to do today, Broadcast two signals, one for HDTV and one for regular TV and slowly drop one as the old sets die off. Also on the subject of American Flyer. It was not compatible with itself. Three different kinds couplers and other difference with itself. Thank you gentlemen Larry Having more fun than one human should be allowed to have. My door faces the wrong direction. Everyone keeps finding it!!!!!!!! busyboy wrote: > > > While never showing movies on tv, I was told the showed regular 24 fps > > at at 24 fps but show the first frame twice and the second one three > > times, twice, next three times and so on. I never figured what this does > > to the matching the 30 fps of tv. If the federal government had not > > interfered we would probably have had good television by using the CBS > > color system instead of the RCA system. CBS was the best color but c

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13477	From: JRKRrdd@aol.com	Date: 6/2/2001
Subject: Flyer switches and engine stallings

Hi There, Someone asked about engine stallings in AF switches. These flyer switches can mimic real conditions to some extent. The larger diecast engines are prone to this problem. When a steamer is exiting the spur side of the switch and running at speed toward the single track side of the switch- (the exact reverse direction problem seems less in occurrence)---the setting of the throw (that large moving switch piece) gets jarred slightly and becomes dislodged from it's setting. On the next repeat pass, you have a dead track section because the electric contacts inside the switch base are "disconnected"--you may even get a derailment. That dead section could be the throw itself, or more, depending on how the track is wired and fed through that switch. Generally the inside rail of the spur side is dead to current as it would be when the switch is set for staright. The mimic part of this scenario is how this switch sits in relation to the planes of level and plumb. By small degrees, I found on my layout, this can make a slight difference in the performance of the switch. You might try shimming the switch base with small pieces of cardboard. I have even used pieces of scrap vinyl flooring material. Shim to focus the force of motion to the inside of the turn ----this is ackward to explain here and you have to do your own experimenting--it may not be the wonder answer. In fact, I am still experimenting with a couple spots in that regard. The large wheelbase of a 6 or 8 driver setup causes a swing action which partly causes this problem. Essentially in turns, the lead drivers of a steamer are going to try and "ride-up" and over the outside rail in a turn. This explains the AF switch "throw" shifting. This problem seems incurable to me ---you can only mimize it somewhat. Only a better Flyer switch with tight snapping action seems to help sometime? Sloppy AF switch mechanisms are definitely more of a problem for sure on this. Pulling a load will also aggravate the driver ride-over problem. This is a "Real" railroading hazard for tight turns and transfers right down to the hobby level! The design of the flyer switch doesn't help either. Whatever this opinion was worth?? Bye John R [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13478	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/2/2001
Subject: Flyer switches and engine stallings

Hi all, Flyer switches are good units, when operating "as new." Unfortunately, the years and heavy/hard use has changed them! The main culprit seems to be the moving rail section, a die-cast part. Usually if you sight down the curved section of a troublesome switch, you will find it dips down in the middle. My cure for this is removal of the part and a straightening job. This can be done with a press, or by judicious use of a hammer and fairly large flat object. The idea is to turn the casting upside-down over two end supports, and press down (up?) in the middle. Go easy, you don't want to fracture it!. While it is apart, you can clean the contacts in the switch base that rub against the open end of the frog (or narrow end on earlier switches) Once the part is flat on top, and the contact areas polished (an ink eraser works well), you can reassemble the unit. I support the area under the pivot rivet and press the pin in by hand, using a short piece of wood doweling on the rivet head. If the rail section was rocking before, I will re-bend the fingered washer on the rivet to tighten it. The rest of the switch mechanism needs to be clean, clean, clean! Nice "snapping" action is caused by the little spring-loader pointer working freely. The "bump" that it works against can be adjusted for proper throw, though I seldom find that necessary. While you are underneath, polish the four contacts and the double-pointed slider that runs on them. You can bend the ends of the wide part of the rail casting to get the narrow end to line up with the point. You can also tweak the outside rails to get this right, but watch the gauge! You are looking for a smooth transition through the entire switch. Hope this helps some! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13479	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 6/2/2001
Subject: Flyer HO diner

I'll only ask one more time.Anyone have any idea what an HO "paradise " diner is worth?I think it is a #235.Thanks in advance,Keith _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13480	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 6/2/2001
Subject: Flyer switches and engine stalling

David: I have never seen a bent flyer switch frog before. Are you sure you didn't leave your switches in the driveway and accidentally back over them? Can't conceive how else that sturdy casting could get bent. Actually, i had a girlfriend who was a trombone player. She backed over her trombone in her driveway and couldn't afford to get it fixed for months. The bell was bent but not broken and it played quite well. Just looked rather unusual. Anyway, if it can happen to a trombone it can happen to a switch. What I HAVE noticed is that sometimes the plastic bed of the switch is warped. If so it will not operate well and is best used as a source of parts to repair other switches. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13481	From: Jim Hannawald	Date: 6/2/2001
Subject: Stringing the 944 Crane

Could one of you lead me to a diagram or intstructions for the re- stringing of the 944 Crane. I just acquired one that needs to be done and can't find a diagram in any of my files. Thanks, Jim

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13482	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 6/2/2001
Subject: Re: Stringing the 944 Crane

Try this link to Paul York's web site: http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/diagram/restring.htm Jim Hannawald wrote: > > Could one of you lead me to a diagram or intstructions for the re- stringing > of the 944 Crane. I just acquired one that needs to be done and can't find > a diagram in any of my files. > > Thanks, > > Jim > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13483	From: busyboy	Date: 6/2/2001
Subject: Re: Moviespeeds

The difference with HDTV is that they are going to broadcast on completely different channels with a system INTENDED to replace the outmoded NTSC standard. Back in the sixties there were no channels except UHF, and that was already spoken for. Besides, government regulation was in it's heyday. I take it back about Flyer. The conversion to S from 0 took chutzpah. There wasn't much backward compatibility there. Sure, they offered S trucks, but what about your steamers? So, this was train related after all. Hmmmmm. Two (subjects) to go, no anchovies, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13484	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 6/3/2001
Subject: AF GP-7

Were any of the original Flyer GP-7s dual motored, or is there a "reasonable" way to convert one? _---_---_---______--__--___+-----+||] [||####### B & O #####|______||_____ || pjpennington@... __| [][] |__ || ||_______________________/ _| B&O |___\_|| | ||| | | | | | | / | 4212 | # ||| | []|=|==================o=====o==================|=|[] /|-||(0)|=|(0)|=|(O) |_________| (0)|=|(0)|=|(O)||-|\ ======================================================== [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13485	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 6/3/2001
Subject: Re: AF GP-7

In a message dated 6/3/01 1:21:08 PM, pjpennington@... writes: << Were any of the original Flyer GP-7s dual motored??>> No, there isn't room for two Gilbert power trucks. The cab provides the space for the one power truck and its support. <<, or is there a "reasonable" way to convert one? >> Not without genuinely major surgery.... although one could double-head two GPs with the reverse units locked out. :-) RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13486	From: ronnat@cros.net	Date: 6/3/2001
Subject: Re: AF GP-7

--- In S-Trains@y..., rbubeck327@a... wrote: > > In a message dated 6/3/01 1:21:08 PM, pjpennington@f... writes: > > << Were any of the original Flyer GP-7s dual motored??>> > > No, there isn't room for two Gilbert power trucks. The cab provides the space > for the one power truck and its support. > > <<, or is there a "reasonable" way to convert one? >> > > Not without genuinely major surgery.... although one could double- head two > GPs with the reverse units locked out. :-) > > R B the geeps were never made with two motors not enough room & even if there was it would not be worth the trouble . these motors really were not that good even when new . I have used two geeps back to back with one e unit controlling both motors it works ok but if you really like geeps i suggest the AM models geeps they will run much better than the old gilbert units ever did and when you compare the price of AM to what it cost to repair & restore the gilbert you will see you are getting more eng . for your money . RON Inscho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13487	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 6/3/2001
Subject: Re: AF GP-7

In a message dated 6/3/01 2:37:52 PM, ronnat@... writes: << if you really like geeps i suggest the AM models geeps they will run much better than the old gilbert units ever did and when you compare the price of AM to what it cost to repair & restore the gilbert you will see you are getting more eng . for your money . RON Inscho >> True, in a way, but some still like to run the good old Gilbert AF stuff for any number of reasons. Let's just say that the New Haven Gilbert has 'soul' and let it go at that.:-) RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13488	From: Ted Walton	Date: 6/3/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1033

At 08:11 AM 6/2/2001 +0000, you wrote: >Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 12:56:34 -0400 > From: lawrence jackman <ljack70117@...> >Subject: Re: Digest 1031 > > ... > Totally true. I have never seen an 8 mm camera that had two speeds. ... If I might add a comment to this S-gauge TV /movie forum, I have an 8 mm movie camera that has 3 speeds for fast, normal and slow motion. Have not used it in decades, but I believe the normal speed was 18 frames/second. If someone has interest in more details, we could email directly (or not) rather then on the S-gauge train forum. Ted Walton TCA 73-5055

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13489	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 6/3/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, June 3, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13490	From: Neil Trump	Date: 6/3/2001
Subject: Re: AF GP-7

Hello Tom, I did it to a Lionel GP about 10 years ago. It is not an easy job, but it can be done. I have some details of it at on Paul's site at: http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/trump/trump1.html http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/trump/trump2.html Neil T. -----Original Message----- From: Tom Pennington <pjpennington@...> To: S-Trains <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Date: 03 June 2001 18:20 Subject: [S-Trains] AF GP-7 >Were any of the original Flyer GP-7s dual motored, or is there a >"reasonable" way >to convert one? > > _---_---_---______--__--___+-----+||] > [||####### B & O #####|______||_____ > || pjpennington@... __| [][] |__ || > ||_______________________/ _| B&O |___\_|| > | ||| | | | | | | / | 4212 | # ||| | >[]|=|==================o=====o==================|=|[] > /|-||(0)|=|(0)|=|(O) |_________| (0)|=|(0)|=|(O)||-|\ >======================================================== > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13491	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 6/3/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] RDC interior kit?

Gerry, Etal, I don't have the drawings for that Gas Electric. I suspect the interior would be different since the prototypes were from different eras. We would also have the capacity to produce that interior, but again, we need to have enough reservations before we can go with that project also. Tom D. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerry Evans" <cujoacat@...> To: "Thomas Doherty" <Thomas@...>; "List, S scale" <S-scale@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 10:10 AM Subject: Re: [S-Scale] RDC interior kit? > Just wondering if these proposed RDC interiors might also be able to be > adaptable/bashed for Scenery Unlimited's gas-electric? If so, I would like > to sign up for one. > > Gerry > > > The topic is S Scale please keep your messages 'on-topic'. > To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13492	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 6/3/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] RDC interior kit?

Ed, we are not even planning this thing until we see enough interest. When we get to a point where we have all the answers you mentioned, it would be long after the determination to "GO" had been made. At this point, we have the capacity to make it in pewter, injection mold, resin cast, or kit of components. The production decisions would be based on who wants it and what their choices would be. Thanks for your response, Tom D. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed & Judi Loizeaux" <loizeaux@...> To: "Thomas Doherty" <Thomas@...>; "List, S scale" <S-scale@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 10:54 AM Subject: [S-Scale] RDC interior kit? > Thomas Doherty wrote: > > > > Ed, etal, > > Yes we have the capability to make an interior for the RDC and we are > > looking for reservations. > > Hi Thomas... > > I am VERY interested in three RDC interior kits. I would be happy to > place an official reservation if you can describe for me exactly what > the product is (kit, assembled, painted, etc.), price, delivery date, > etc. Also, photo of the product (test shot, mockup, etc.) would be most > helpful for me to make a final decision. > > Thanks...Ed L. > > The topic is S Scale please keep your messages 'on-topic'. > To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13493	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 6/3/2001
Subject: Re: AF GP-7

Actually guys, I suspect a modified version of the replacement Baldwin chassis would work well under the shell. If anything, the thing is bigger than the Baldwin so there should be room. Tom D. ----- Original Message ----- From: <rbubeck327@...> To: <pjpennington@...>; <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 1:59 PM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] AF GP-7 > > In a message dated 6/3/01 1:21:08 PM, pjpennington@... writes: > > << Were any of the original Flyer GP-7s dual motored??>> > > No, there isn't room for two Gilbert power trucks. The cab provides the space > for the one power truck and its support. > > <<, or is there a "reasonable" way to convert one? >> > > Not without genuinely major surgery.... although one could double-head two > GPs with the reverse units locked out. :-) > > RB > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13494	From: Lee Johnson	Date: 6/4/2001
Subject: Chateau Martin NASG 2000 Convention car

For all who were kind enough to ask, information and photos on the NASG 2000 Convention cars can be found on the NASG web site http://trainweb.com/NASG/cars.html, where you can also bring up the order form for the Chateau Martin and SP silver Overnight NASG 2000 Convention cars. The Chateau Martin cars are available in 3 numbers, and there are only 4 SP Overnight cars left in 2 different numbers. Each car sells for $40 plus $5 shipping per order. The convention cars can be purchased by NASG members and non-members alike. Only the commemorative cars are available to members only. If you have any further questions, e-mail me a leemax@.... Lee

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13495	From: Mark Preman	Date: 6/4/2001
Subject: Anyone ever heard of ALROCO?

I picked up a collection with an electronically altered 760, a kit to do another 760, and another for a 759 bell danger signal. Lots of wire and circuit boards. Anyone familiar with these kits? Mark http://www.americanflyertrains.com ===== Mark B. Preman AmericanFlyerTrains.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13496	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 6/4/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1034

KEITH The # is 253 #253 Roadside Dinner (1950) yellow plastic $55 $78 $125 Painted yellow 60 105 155 Use the prices at your discretion. Jerry 77-11644 ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13497	From: eddie rickenbacker	Date: 6/4/2001
Subject: excessing stuff

hey gang-i'm selling a couple of engines and coaches that i have doubles of-for details, e-mail me. a 1946 310 restored, a 287 ,293 and a coupla 650's-j marganski __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13498	From: J. Paul Hartman	Date: 6/4/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer HO diner

Sommer's AF HO Price Guide has it for the yellow plastic as 45 (good), 73 (excellent) and 120 (mint/boxed). For the painted yellow he has it at 55/100/150 for the same categories. Paul Hartman On Sat, 2 Jun 2001, Keith Kuzma wrote: > I'll only ask one more time.Anyone have any idea what an HO "paradise " > diner is worth?I think it is a #235.Thanks in advance,Keith > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13499	From: John Foley	Date: 6/4/2001
Subject: Layout on way to convention

Hi Folks The Hudson Model Railroad Club in Hudson Pa. [ about 20 minutes South of Scranton ] Have invited convention attendees to stop in. They are having an operating session Wednesday July 25th from 7pm-10pm. If you are driving contact me off list and I will forward you the photos and directions they send me. If you enough of you folks who would like me to look into transportation please let me know and I will look into a bus. I will let you know what it will cost, not much i am sure. John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13500	From: Walt Danylak	Date: 6/4/2001
Subject: Digest Number ???

Anybody, Maybe I'm not too smart, but what in hell is a Digest Number and where do they come from. I don't see any reference to them except in subjects and replies. Walt

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13501	From: Bill Lane	Date: 6/4/2001
Subject: S Helper Service F Units

Hi All, As previously reported, I went to Don's house on Saturday to pick up my B & O F-3 set. He has not done PRR YET, so I got B & O. I just now took them out of the box. There are no words that currently come to mind to accurately describe how AWESOME these engines are. They weigh a TON so they should be able to pull a house down. The new Kadee style close couplers are just the cherry on top of the tasty sundae. They are truly everything you could ask for in one box. For those of you who know me you also now of my obsession with brass. All I can say is if you have brass F units that you want to sell, you better do it now! I will NOT be buying any brass F units ever again. I know of people who have paid 80% of the cost of the SHS set to have an A-B set painted in B & O. I should have gotten an extra A unit. If anyone wants to part with an A unit only that is not locomotive # 82 please contact me. Thanks Bill

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13502	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/4/2001
Subject: MTH prices, AAAUGH!!

Hi all, Just got a flyer from Arizona Trains (520-325-2321) and they are having an MTH BLOWOUT sale, 30-9043 coal loaders for $119.23 and 30-9120 Gabes for $110.00!!! AAUGH, now that I've already gotten mine!!! Oh well, I think they were a good deal at the price I paid anyway, maybe some of you don't have one yet. Orders up to $200, $5 shipping, over $200, FREE (48 contiguous states only). I don't have any connection w/ AZ trains, just buy stuff from them now and again. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13503	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/4/2001
Subject: Digest Number ???

Walt, (& others) Some list member get the list on a "one-time-a-day" basis, known as "Digest Form." the software bundles everyone's messages into a single message, called a Digest, and posts it to these members. Now when they us "reply" on their computer, their software automatically grabs the message header as the reply header. The message header is "digest XXX." Is that clear as mud?? ;-) S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13504	From: Sam and Judy Williamson	Date: 6/5/2001
Subject: Fw: Identification please

I am looking for the catalog numbers of the A-F pre-war(?) stamped steel passenger cars. The cars are 3/16 scale on O-gauge trucks. There was a baggage car, operating mail car, coach, pullman and an observation. Also is there a book or site I can access to obtain information on other such cars, both p & f, that were produced prior to the plastic age. Thanks, Sam Williamson [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13505	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/5/2001
Subject: MTH prices, AAAUGH!!

Hi all, Just got a flyer from Arizona Trains (520-325-2321) and they are having an MTH BLOWOUT sale, 30-9043 coal loaders for $119.23 and 30-9120 Gabes for $110.00!!! AAUGH, now that I've already gotten mine!!! Oh well, I think they were a good deal at the price I paid anyway; maybe some of you don't have one yet. Orders up to $200, $5 shipping, over $200, FREE (48 contiguous states only). I don't have any connection w/ AZ trains, just buy stuff from them now and again. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13506	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 6/5/2001
Subject: Re: MTH prices, AAAUGH!!

In a message dated 6/4/01 8:18:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time, djdewey@... writes: << Just got a flyer from Arizona Trains (520-325-2321) and they are having an MTH BLOWOUT sale, 30-9043 coal loaders for $119.23 and 30-9120 Gabes for $110.00!!! >> These are pretty much standard prices (and the not the lowest) for these items -- look at some of the ads from the large mail order houses (e.g., Island Trains) in Classic Postwar Lionel Trains (also known as CTT). The Zero Gauge folk will tell you that it does not make much sense preorder much of anything these days from the "Biggies" such as Lionel and MTH unless the preorder involves a fairly steep discount up front. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13507	From: Doug Peck	Date: 6/5/2001
Subject: Re: MTH blowout

Most of you have probably read of complaints about distributors who also do wholesale and retail sales, killing your local hobby shops. Here is a good example that Dave cites. As a dealer, I paid more to buy these two items at wholesale than AZ (which purchases as a distributor) is retailing them for! And I didn't buy just a couple.....we bought over 30 of each..........wanted and ordered more, but was allocated about 30. Original message from Dave Dewey: << Just got a flyer from Arizona Trains (520-325-2321) and they are having an MTH BLOWOUT sale, 30-9043 coal loaders for $119.23 and 30-9120 Gabes for $110.00!!! AAUGH, now that I've already gotten mine!!! Oh well, I think they were a good deal at the price I paid anyway, maybe some of you don't have one yet. >> Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13508	From: Wayne Broadhead	Date: 6/5/2001
Subject: Re: MTH prices, AAAUGH!!

...thank you David, what a deal!! I think everyone should get a second Gabe....it is fantastic!!! My grandson is wearing mine out!! He uses that accesory more than any other. Wayne Broadhead David Dewey wrote: > > Hi all, > Just got a flyer from Arizona Trains (520-325-2321) and they are having > an MTH BLOWOUT sale, 30-9043 coal loaders for $119.23 and 30-9120 Gabes for > $110.00!!! > AAUGH, now that I've already gotten mine!!! Oh well, I think they were a > good deal at the price I paid anyway, maybe some of you don't have one yet. > Orders up to $200, $5 shipping, over $200, FREE (48 contiguous states only). > I don't have any connection w/ AZ trains, just buy stuff from them now and > again. > S' > David D. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13509	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 6/5/2001
Subject: Re: Fw: Identification please

In a message dated 6/5/01 11:23:42 AM, salrwy1948@... writes: << I am looking for the catalog numbers of the A-F prewar(?) stamped steel passenger cars. The cars are 3/16 scale on O-gauge trucks. There was a baggage car, operating mail car, coach, pullman and an observation. >> Dear Sam: You are apparently asking about Gilbert's prewar 490, 492, 494, 495, 496, and 497 painted sheet metal passenger car series: 490 = baggage car (New Haven style) with whistle in metallic gray or blue; 492 = mail car (New Haven style) in red, Tuscan, blue, or green; 494 = baggage car (New Haven style) in red, Tuscan, green, or blue; 495 = coach (New Haven style) in red, green, Tuscan or blue; 496 = Pullman in red, green, or Tuscan; and 497 = Pullman observation in red, green, or Tuscan. There are variations beyond this. The catalog numbers have suffixes for color (R, G, T, B) and (L) for being lighted. See pages 226 and 227 in Schuweiler's "Greenberg's Guide to American Flyer Prewar O Gauge". This is s decent reference, but beware that the prices are in many instances too low for trains in superior condition. BTW, the REALLY neat Gilbert prewar passenger cars are the die cast heavyweights, combination and Pullman, if you can find them in nice shape. Hope this helps. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13510	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 6/5/2001
Subject: Re: MTH blowout

In a message dated 6/5/01 5:14:45 PM, portlines@... writes: << Most of you have probably read of complaints about distributors who also do wholesale and retail sales, killing your local hobby shops. Here is a good example that Dave cites. As a dealer, I paid more to buy these two items at wholesale than AZ (which purchases as a distributor) is retailing them for! >> This situation is very common in Zero Gauge because of the Great O Gauge Glut being generated by the fierce competition in that market. Many O gauge guys scrounge for the best deals all the time. They know the cycle of 'glut and blowout' and time their purchases accordingly. The 'buzz' is that MTH O gauge is currently way overstocked on dealers shelves. The market for new O gauge tinplate (and repro Flyer accessories do fall into this category because of who is marketing them) is very different from the relatively tame S gauge market. All of this spills over into affecting prices for Lionel (postwar, MPC, and LTI) and much MTH in ways that we do not see for most vintage Gilbert. Personally, I support my local dealer at prices fair to us both, but blowouts go with the territory. It is unfortunate, IMHO, that some overly driven companies (and we know who) cannot see beyond the next catalog -- but that is the way of it. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13511	From: John Foley	Date: 6/5/2001
Subject: Another layout at Scranton

Hi Folks Here is another layout you can visit near Scranton if you are driving to the NASG Convention Steamtown USA 2001 It's called Miniature Memories. It's at exit 54 on interstate 81. Coming from the South you get off the exit [Drinker St] and make a right turn, go about 1/2 a mile to the Gertrude Hawk Chocolates. The layout is in the Chocolate outlet store. Coming from the north you would make a left on to Drinker St. There is no fee to view the layout but the do have a donations box that benefits the needy, The layout is H-O and depicts downtown Scranton and the surrounding area. Well worth the Stop, and if you like good chocolates your be in the right place. Hours are 12noon to 5pm Tuesday thru Sunday. John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13512	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/5/2001
Subject: MTH blowout and dealer's pre-orders

Doug's posting points out something I hjave really been wondering about. Here he is, shorted by almost half his order, paid for at full wholesale, and now there's another dealer blowin' them out at below his cost! So what was the manufacturer doing?? hoarding??? It's a strange world we live in!! S' David "the weakest link?" Dewey PS Think I'll stick to fixin' flyer, at least there most things seem logical! :-)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13513	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/5/2001
Subject: Re: Fw: Identification please

Hi all, RB should have mentioned, when he brought up the pre-war heavyweights, that they are very rare in good condition, as most of the pot-metal they were cast with was contaminated, and they usually have, or are in the process of, crumbled to dust! RATS! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13514	From: Sam and Judy Williamson	Date: 6/6/2001
Subject: Fw: Identification please

I am looking for the catalog numbers of the A-F pre-war(?) stamped steel passenger cars. The cars are 3/16 scale on O-gauge trucks. There was a baggage car, operating mail car, coach, pullman and an observation. Also is there a book or site I can access to obtain information on other such cars, both p & f, that were produced prior to the plastic age. Thanks, Sam Williamson [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13515	From: sigma@ecn.ab.ca	Date: 6/6/2001
Subject: Flyer prototypes

Can anyone identify for me the prototypes of Flyer's two Pacifics? Joe Pereira email: sigma@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13516	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 6/6/2001
Subject: Re: Fw: Identification please

In a message dated 6/6/01 12:10:48 AM Eastern Daylight Time, djdewey@... writes: << RB should have mentioned, when he brought up the pre-war heavyweights, that they are very rare in good condition, as most of the pot-metal they were cast with was contaminated, >> True enough, but luck has placed a very nice set of Tuscan ones in my collection, along with the appropriate prewar 3/16" scale Gilbert Northern to pull them. It's very tough, but nice prewar Gilbert die cast heavyweights can be had if one searches hard and long enough. The thrill of the chase is a big part of train collecting! :-)) RB My quote -- << BTW, the REALLY neat Gilbert prewar passenger cars are the die cast heavyweights, combination and Pullman, if you can find them in nice shape.>>

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13517	From: M.McConnell	Date: 6/6/2001
Subject: Digest Number

You're correct David - but I would also add that if you subscribe to the digest form of the list - you should NOT use the "Reply to Message" feature of your mail program, because when you do, you copy the entire previous day's digest in your message to the next day's compilation. That makes for confusing, (and if done more than once - rather frustrating) reading of the messages because it can be hard to tell yesterdays messages from today's. If you subscribe to the digest - you should copy & paste the relevant message from the digest into a new message (along with your comments), then post that to S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Those of us on the digest will thank you! (one more thing - since we get the digest every 24 hours, it could be two days before you get a response to a posting. Patience is a virtue here!) Michael >Message: 9 > Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 18:12:02 -0700 > From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> >Subject: Digest Number ??? > > >Walt, (& others) > Some list member get the list on a "one-time-a-day" basis, known as >"Digest Form." the software bundles everyone's messages into a single >message, called a Digest, and posts it to these members. Now when they us >"reply" on their computer, their software automatically grabs the message >header as the reply header. The message header is "digest XXX." > Is that clear as mud?? ;-) >S' >David D. > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13518	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 6/6/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer prototypes

In a message dated 6/6/01 9:24:32 AM, sigma@... writes: << Can anyone identify for me the prototypes of Flyer's two Pacifics? Joe Pereira >> There are four Pacifics. The K-5 (559*, 560*,561*, 310, 312, 315, 316, 21115) is modeled after PRR No. 5698. The Royal Blue (553*, 556*, 350) is, well, the B&O Royal Blue. This engine also serves as the basis for the Circus engine (353) and the Silver Bullets (354, 356). The New Haven Pacific (290, 293, 295, 296, 21095, and 21099) is loosely modeled after an NH I-4, I believe. The plastic C&NW Pacific (282, 283, 289, 21084, and 21085) is loosely modeled, as well -- it looks mostly like Frisco No. 1501 to me. The later Gilbert Pacifics designed in the postwar period had more 'freelance' in them while the designs based upon prewar efforts followed a prototype in scale fairly well, particularly for a toy. Additional thoughts, boys and girls? *Prewar. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13519	From: sgriggs@umich.edu	Date: 6/6/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer prototypes **SEE PHOTOS IN FILES**

--- In S-Trains@y..., rbubeck327@a... wrote: > > In a message dated 6/6/01 9:24:32 AM, sigma@e... writes: > > << Can anyone identify for me the prototypes of Flyer's two Pacifics? > Joe Pereira >> > > There are four Pacifics. The K-5 (559*, 560*,561*, 310, 312, 315, 316, 21115) > is modeled after PRR No. 5698. The Royal Blue (553*, 556*, 350) is, well, the > B&O Royal Blue. This engine also serves as the basis for the Circus engine > (353) and the Silver Bullets (354, 356). The New Haven Pacific (290, 293, > 295, 296, 21095, and 21099) is loosely modeled after an NH I-4, I believe. > The plastic C&NW Pacific (282, 283, 289, 21084, and 21085) is loosely > modeled, as well -- it looks mostly like Frisco No. 1501 to me. The later > Gilbert Pacifics designed in the postwar period had more 'freelance' in them > while the designs based upon prewar efforts followed a prototype in scale > fairly well, particularly for a toy. Additional thoughts, boys and girls? > > *Prewar. > > RB I have posted a folder in the files section called "AFPrototypePhotos" which contains photos of the real New Haven I4, Pennsy K5, B&O "Royal Blue", NYC J3a, and Reading P7. The photos have been culled from various web sources and I have posted photo credits when I have the information. Pretty cool to see the prototypes on which A.C. Gilbert based his models. Scott Griggs

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13520	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 6/6/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer prototypes **SEE PHOTOS IN FILES**

I always thought the C&NW 4-6-2 was based on the USRA light Pacific. Don T. sgriggs@... wrote: > --- In S-Trains@y..., rbubeck327@a... wrote: > > > > In a message dated 6/6/01 9:24:32 AM, sigma@e... writes: > > > > << Can anyone identify for me the prototypes of Flyer's two > Pacifics? > > Joe Pereira >> > > > > There are four Pacifics. The K-5 (559*, 560*,561*, 310, 312, 315, > 316, 21115) > > is modeled after PRR No. 5698. The Royal Blue (553*, 556*, 350) is, > well, the > > B&O Royal Blue. This engine also serves as the basis for the Circus > engine > > (353) and the Silver Bullets (354, 356). The New Haven Pacific (290, > 293, > > 295, 296, 21095, and 21099) is loosely modeled after an NH I-4, I > believe. > > The plastic C&NW Pacific (282, 283, 289, 21084, and 21085) is > loosely > > modeled, as well -- it looks mostly like Frisco No. 1501 to me. The > later > > Gilbert Pacifics designed in the postwar period had more 'freelance' > in them > > while the designs based upon prewar efforts followed a prototype in > scale > > fairly well, particularly for a toy. Additional thoughts, boys and > girls? > > > > *Prewar. > > > > RB > > I have posted a folder in the files section called "AFPrototypePhotos" > which contains photos of the real New Haven I4, Pennsy K5, B&O "Royal > Blue", NYC J3a, and Reading P7. The photos have been culled from > various web sources and I have posted photo credits when I have the > information. Pretty cool to see the prototypes on which A.C. Gilbert > based his models. > > Scott Griggs > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 F-3s are now shippng! http://www.showcaseline.com/emdf3s_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13521	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/6/2001
Subject: Re: Fw: Identification please

RB, Hmm, some guys have all the luck! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13522	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/6/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number

Michael posted: " You're correct David - but I would also add that if you subscribe to the digest form of the list - you should NOT use the "Reply to Message" feature of your mail program, because when you do, you copy the entire previous day's digest in your message to the next day's compilation" Um, well, yes that CAN be correct, but not necessarily! For some strange reason both popular email programs have this feature as the default. BUT! it is possible to deselect it under "Preferences" as I did so long ago I don't remember the exact process. Why this annoying feature should be the default is beyond me! So, if I reply to any message and need parts of in the new message, I do "copy & paste" it. Yes, deselecting this (ugh) feature does save lots of bandwidth and scrolling and download time! (hint, hint, everyone!!) ;-) S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13523	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 6/6/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer prototypes **SEE PHOTOS IN FILES**

Many thanks to Scott for posting the AF prototype pix. A few more things... I agree with Don T. about the Gilbert plastic Pacific. It seems to be a USRA Light Pacific (except for the tender, perhaps.) According to Kalmback's Steam Locomotive Cyclopedia, the particular Royal Blue Pacific modelled by Gilbert was the President Monroe, one of 20 B+O "President" class Pacifics. It was the only one to be steamlined in that specific style. The Reading's P7sa Atlantics began life with a 4-4-4 wheel arrangement, which was "unstable" according to E. P. Alexander's "Steam Locomotives 1900-1950". They were subsequently converted to 4-4-2s. Only four were made, Gilbert choosing an unusual design to model. Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13524	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 6/7/2001
Subject: Factory closing

Gentlemen, We will be closed next week while we perform some much needed renovations and upgrades. A note has been added to the web site to identify the time we will be closed so, if you try to contact us, no one will respond until the time specified on the note. thanks, Tom D. Tom Doherty Pennsylvania Heritage Models, Ltd. http://www.paheritagemodels.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13525	From: TPDavis7@aol.com	Date: 6/7/2001
Subject: re-subscribe

Back from vacation, put me back on the list. Thank you, Ton Davis, Charlotte, NC [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13526	From: sgriggs@umich.edu	Date: 6/7/2001
Subject: Website URL for Flyer Prototype Photos

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/AFPrototypePhotos/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13527	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 6/7/2001
Subject: WHAT RAILROAD TO PRODUCE

These are the choices of NASG members with 250 surveys back from 1743 members. Our official count this week is 1787 members ANSWERS TO #5 (6/1/01) "List your two favorite prototype railroads" I don't know some of these. ACL 1 Akron Canton & Youngstown 1 Amtrak 2 Atlanta & West Point 1 AT & SF 1 Bangor & Aroostook 2 B & O 30 Bessemer & Lake Erie 1 BC Rail 1 BNSF 5 Boston & Maine 5 Bostonian 3 Burlington Northern 2 C & EI 1 C & IM 1 C & O 6 C & S 1 C & NW 8 CB & Q 5 CP 2 CR 1 CSX 4 Canadian National 2 Canadian Pacific 2 Central of NJ 1 Central of Georgia RY 1 Chessie 3 Chicago Great Western 3 Conrail 5 D & H 1 D & RGW 6 DL & W 5 DT & I 1 Delaware & Hudson 1 Denver Rio Grande 1 Duluth, Missabe & Iron Range 2 Durham & Southern 1 EBT 1 EJ & E 1 East Broadtop 2 Erie 3 Erie Lackawanna 2 Evansville & Southern IN Traction Co. 1 Frisco 2 Grand Trunk Western 1 GM & O 1 Great Northern 7 Hudson 1 ICRR 1 Illinois Central 1 Kansas City Southern 3 Lehigh Valley 5 MA & PA 4 M & STL 2 MEC 3 M..PAC 2 Maine 2-Foot (Future) 1 Maryland & DE 1 Milwaukee Road 6 Minneapolis & St. Louis 1 Monon 2 N & W 1 NASA 1 NH 1 NKP 3 NP 1 NYO & W 1 NYNH & H 2 Nevada County Narrow Gauge 1 New Haven 12 Nickel Plate 9 Northern Pacific 3 Northwestern Pacific 1 NY Central 31 PA 25 PRR 18 Pere Marquette 1 Providence & Worcester 2 Quebec Light & Power C 1 Reading 14 Rio Grande 2 Rock Island 4 Rutland 2 SF 1 SP 8 SCL 1 SOU 1 Sandy River & Rangeley Lakes 2 Santa Fe 16 Silvertown 1 Southern 1 Southern Pacific 12 Southern RY 1 Susquehanna 1 T & P 1 TH & B 1 TMER & L 1 Tremont & Gulf 1 Union Pacific 30 Vermont Railway 1 Wabash 1 Western MD 1 Western Pacific 3 Wheeling & Lake Erie 1 Wisconsin Central 1 500 Line 5

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13528	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 6/7/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer prototypes **SEE PHOTOS IN FILES**

In a message dated 6/7/01 1:44:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time, eighthmile@... writes: << I agree with Don T. about the Gilbert plastic Pacific. It seems to be a USRA Light Pacific (except for the tender, perhaps.) >> I agree, as well. Frisco 1501 was a USRA light Pacific, and was intended in my answer as a POSSIBLE prototype for the 283s. It should not be surprising that the prototypes Gilbert choose for steam engines, except for the I-4, are also pictured in the war time "Roar of the Rails". This engine appears to be about as close to the 283s, IMHO, as any Pacific I've seen. Having the such pictures in front of them, it is interesting to speculate that the Gilbert designers may have chose the Frisco as the source of their inspiration. Hope this clarifies. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13529	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/7/2001
Subject: Tom's re-subscribe

So Tom, What'd you find while on vacation?? WHAT no trains???? ;-) Welcome back to the trenches! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13530	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/7/2001
Subject: Re: WHAT RAILROAD TO PRODUCE

Glenn, Hmm interesting, but I think you can combine "SP" and Southern Pacific" as one answer, and "SF" and "Santa Fe" might help the statistic analysis. :-) S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13531	From: sigma@ecn.ab.ca	Date: 6/7/2001
Subject: Flyer Pacifics

Thanks to all who have responded to my query about the prototypes of Flyer Pacifics. With respect to the C&NW series it's unanimous. Everyone agrees that they represent a USRA light Pacific. But a Frisco light Pacific? Didn't C&NW have any? Joe Pereira email: sigma@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13532	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 6/7/2001
Subject: Re: WHAT RAILROAD TO PRODUCE

I will be doing that Dave but 5 surveys a day are still coming in so until I have a better picture I just wanted you to have an idea of how diverse our interests are. I will also combine PA & PRR. Maybe in 10 years when we do the next survey we will give you 10 major roads to pick from. I hope every NASG member on this list sends in their form. And if you aren't a member go to http://www.nasg.org and join. Glenn David Dewey wrote: Glenn, Hmm interesting, but I think you can combine "SP" and Southern Pacific" as one answer, and "SF" and "Santa Fe" might help the statistic analysis. :-) S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13533	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 6/7/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer Pacifics

In a message dated 6/7/01 11:45:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time, sigma@... writes: << With respect to the C&NW series it's unanimous. Everyone agrees that they represent a USRA light Pacific. But a Frisco light Pacific? Didn't C&NW have any? Joe Pereira >> Yes, and so did a large number of other railroads. Some 21085s are marked 'Milwaukee Road'. The 283 (et al.) is a generalized toy copy of a generic USRA design. I was just offering the observation that Frisco 1501 (in "Roar of the Rails") looked about as much like the toy as a number of other possible choices. The speculation I am sharing with you is that the final choice of C&NW may have been as much a marketing decision as anything. Lionel and Flyer did take geography into account when choosing RRs. In the early 50s, Gilbert became rather cavalier at times about how they were labeling their engines. New Haven is no where to be found on the tenders of the 290 and 295. The 405 started out in preproduction as a Burlington and ended up as the "Silver Streak", and there's the "Silver Rocket", "Silver Flash", "Chief", and "Silver Comet", which may have had their respective origins as Southern, Maine Central, SF, and MP -- as is often speculated. And so on. Too bad that Mr. Romer is not around anymore to ask.:-)) RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13534	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 6/7/2001
Subject: Re: [showcaseline] Seaboard???

Hi Don, You inspired me to get out Dale Woodland's "Reading Diesels Volume 1" and look at my future F7 number 273 or whatever prototypical number you chose. I had better get back to work and earn some money to pay for your Readings. Glenn Don Thompson wrote: Dear Glenn, The Reading green and yellow extended vision caboose are to leave the end of this month for delivery in July. We are making 2 numbers. I am hoping on making a Reading F-7 in the next run if all goes well. Don PS S scale's own John Hall has completed the Reading caboose book and took it to the printers this week. I hope they are available for the convention.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13535	From: John Foley	Date: 6/7/2001
Subject: NASG Convention

Hi Folks Seems Pennsylvania has decided to change interstate 81's exit numbers. So exit 53 where the Radisson hotel is, is now exit #185. Exit 52 where the Clarion Hotel is will be exit 184 Exit 51 where the Comfort Suits and Hampton will be exit 182 John Foley

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13536	From: rgajnak@earthlink.net	Date: 6/8/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer prototypes

rbrubeck327 wrote: I agree, as well. Frisco 1501 was a USRA light Pacific, and was intended in my answer as a POSSIBLE prototype for the 283s. Whoa there...Frisco 1501 was (and still is) a USRA Light 4-8-2. She is currently on display in Rolla, MO. See: http://www.frisco1522.org/breakin401/breakin401.htm Frisco 4-6-2's were numbered 1000-1069. None were of the USRA type. Of course, that doesn't mean a 283 wouldn't look good decorated for Frisco. The Frisco also rostered USRA Light 2-8-2's. Be seeing you... Rich G. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13537	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 6/8/2001
Subject: More Reading SHS Stuff!!

<Don Thompson wrote: < <Dear Glenn, < < The Reading green and yellow extended vision <caboose are to leave the end of this month for <delivery in July. We are making 2 numbers. I <am hoping on making a Reading F-7 in the next <run if all goes well. < <Don Don, You know if its Reading, you can put me down. I already have 2 of your flatcars, and I eagerly await the extended vision caboose and the F-7. Joe ===== Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,300 part lines American Models ## S-Helper Service ## Gilbert Rerpoductions Featuring Parts by Toy Trains International joestrainrepair@... Master Card/Visa __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13538	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 6/8/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer prototypes

In a message dated 6/8/01 7:58:44 AM, rgajnak@... writes: << Whoa there...Frisco 1501 was (and still is) a USRA Light 4-8-2. She is currently on display in Rolla, MO. >> Thanks, Rich, for the correction. Shouldn't depend so much on my memory, I guess. :-) RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13539	From: Scott Holm	Date: 6/8/2001
Subject: Ertl county fair on Ebay

In case anybody is looking for the 1/64 Ertl county fair, there's one up on Ebay right now: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1605008032 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13540	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 6/8/2001
Subject: Re: New file uploaded to showcaseline

Don Thompson wrote: Inspired by Tom Lennon, we will have these for sale late September with the third run of reefers. Two numbers, 00686 & 00687 will be available. Great looking Northern Pacific Reefer at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/showcaseline/files/NPREEFER11.tif This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the showcaseline group. -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 F-3s are now shippng! http://www.showcaseline.com/emdf3s_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13541	From: alorince@yahoo.com	Date: 6/8/2001
Subject: orrvile oh depot days

i'll have my AM Stock at orrvile ohio depot days this weekend. train show kiddy rides food music and dancing train rides train watching former cr mainline ( now ns) conrail used to bring in there saftey car and a loco to be toured. don't know if ns is doing the same. show is free to public posted hours 10 to 4 for train show. andy lorince

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13542	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 6/8/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, June 10, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13543	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 6/9/2001
Subject: flyer "O"

Heres one of the Flyer "O" heavy sets.Ebay item 1605660757.Keith _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13544	From: Scott Brown	Date: 6/9/2001
Subject: ACSG-Manassas Heritage Railway Festival

This is a little bit late, but just wanted to let you all know how much fun the Washington & Old Dominion Division of the Atlantic Coast S Gaugers had last saturday, June 2nd at the Manassas, Virginia, Railway Festival. We had a 26' by 14' modular layout with lots of original American Flyer trains as well as several newer American Models trains. We ran races on our 2 main lines between steam and deisel engines, had near misses (and a couple of direct hits) with David Horn's Cow on Track, had Bill Novak's circus train with his red 293 engine, and ran my new AM Amtrak Superliner set. We used many of the AF accessories including the whistling billboard which we have a button that all the kids can push (with a cutout switch under the table for those persistent whistle blowers). We set up the new MTH coal loader with a string of coal hoppers which all the kids loved and even had an Ertle Farm with Barn, Silo, tractors, cattle building, and a special yard with UK mad cow diseased cattle (laying hoof up). Chris Johson had his multilevel Plasticville city with lots of cars which many oohed and ahhhed over. And much, much more. Manassas is our favorite show of the year as it is the only show we do that hundreds, maybe thousands of kids can see our layout. The attendance last saturday was over 31,000 people. Yes, that is 31 thousand. Many of them kids. Us BIg kids had a great time and can't wait until next year. I hope to have some pictures soon for you to view on our web site http://sgauge.homestead.com/ACSGindex.html Scott Brown Atlantic Coast S Gaugers Washington & Old Dominion Division

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13545	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 6/9/2001
Subject: Irish vehicle in 1/64

Hey vehicle fans: My wife just brought me back an s scale truck from Ireland. It's from the Shamrock Heritage Collection, "uniquely Irish die-cast models" It's a 1931 Morris van made by Lledo. The steering wheel is on the wrong side, of course. It's decorated for Jameson Irish Whiskey in a cream, black and plum paint scheme. And best of all, she brought me back a bottle of the whiskey, too! Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13546	From: Mike Vana	Date: 6/10/2001
Subject: Insuring your trains

Often I get asked if my model trains are insured. When I tell people that they aren't, they reply that I should. Does anybody have any advice on this? What type of insurance should I get, and what is a reasonable rate to pay? Mike Vana Omaha, NE.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13547	From: TWYLA STARR	Date: 6/10/2001
Subject: A.F. 30B transformer

Does anyone have any suggestions on modifying a 30B so it would start at 0 volts instead of 7 so I can use it with one of the new can motor conversion kits and not have a jack rabbit start? Would it be possible to use a rheostat and a dpdt switch between the transformer and track to start at 0 volts and to eliminate the e-unit for forward and reverse. Would I need to use a an A.C. voltmeter to make sure how much power was going to the track , or would I be better off to just sell the 30B and buy one of the new dual control transformers? Thanks in advance for your advice, J.R. Starr [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13548	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 6/10/2001
Subject: Re: Insuring your trains

A rider to your home owners. Larry Mike Vana wrote: > > Often I get asked if my model trains are insured. When > I tell people that they aren't, they reply that I should. > > Does anybody have any advice on this? What type of > insurance should I get, and what is a reasonable rate > to pay? > > Mike Vana Omaha, NE. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13549	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 6/10/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, June 10, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13550	From: howard sheffield	Date: 6/10/2001
Subject: Re: Insuring your trains

Hi Mike. I have some more advice. A long time ago I had a large collection started when my dad started buying me trains in '55. I continued buying into my married years. Some years ago, I decided to get an insurance rider and was told I needed an official appraisal to get covered. I went to a local dealer who was also a local big guy in the train market. He couldn't give me an estimate without my leaving the trains with him so he would have time to go through them. Long story short, my trains were "stolen" that very night. Moral of story is to make sure you work out a solution to getting the appraisal or do a few at a time, but don't leave them with someone you don't know extremely well. The cost to replace them is a killer. Howard Roseville, CA Often I get asked if my model trains are insured. When >I tell people that they aren't, they reply that I should. _______________________________________________________________________ Free Domain Name Registration with Web Hosting at Lanset Communications. 56k Dialup, Web Design, and Colocation at http://www.lanset.net

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13551	From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi	Date: 6/11/2001
Subject: Re: Reminder - Sunday Chat

Hi all: Sorry I missed you last night. I tried to get on about 2:05 am my time, Yahoo said I wasn't a member, when I tried to join, Yahoo said welcome back, but verify password, and then, because of "inactivity" I would have to follow instructions from an e-mail, which I waited for until around 2:55 am, then packed it in and got some sleep. I see they sent me a message at 2:34 am, but as I didn't get it, who knows where it was in the black hole of internet space. Maybe some other time! Rance S-Trains@yahoogroups.com wrote: > We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. > > Sunday Chat > > Date: Sunday, June 10, 2001 > Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) > > Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page > http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13552	From: busyboy	Date: 6/11/2001
Subject: Re: Insuring your trains

Most insurance companies writing collection insurance will issue a policy up to a limit (like $10,000 value) without a detailed list or an appraisal. Over that limit, or, if a single item has a particularly high value, a detailed price list from an approved appraiser will be required. Riders to homeowner's insurance usually require an appraisal regardless of value. Homeowner's will fight with you on a claim and they know very little about trains. Riders are usually taken to protect jewelry and artwork. You might be better off with a company that specializes in collection insurance. There are usually ads in CTT. I have always had a skeptical, untrusting side. Who are these insurance people? Are they friends of mine? Why am I handing them a detailed list of my most valued possessions, complete with values and the exact location where they can be found? Is it because I know that they are not involved with larcenous types who will buy such lists from them? To me, the less anybody knows, the better. If it is possible to get a rider on your homeowner's without providing a detailed list, that would be your best bet. Barring that, go to the collection insurance specialists and try the "no list" option. In either case, when they ask where the collection is stored, answer: "under lock and key in a room with an alarm." Avoid saying exactly where the trains are. That ought to make it unattractive. If your trains are worth more than the limit and you have to provide a list, consider holding to the low limit and getting supplemental insurance. It may be possible to take a collection policy up to the limit of "no list" and also take a limited rider with your homeowner's policy. You'll have to work this out with your agent. "No list" policies allow for changes, buying and selling items, without constantly updating the carrier. They also, after the deductible, if there is one, will pay for partial losses, such as fire or water damage to some pieces but not a total collection loss. Policies with a list are mandated if you have an original "President's Set" or some other high ticket items that you are likely to keep for life and pass on into heirloom status. They are also necessary where the sheer magnitude of a collection would make a loss claim a nightmare to calculate and where it is essential to prove the existence of pricey items. This is a process into which you must apply some careful thought. Evaluate your collection. By all means, maintain a detailed list. It will come in handy for a loss as well as serve you well in tracking your collection. Keep the list off-premises, maybe in your safety deposit box. If the house burns down and the trains burn AND the list burns, well, you get the idea. Be careful about into whose hands you place that list. See if you can get ample insurance without giving up the list. And finally, watch those premiums! Don't pay out the value of the trains to protect the trains. Go for lower cost options. Get simpler coverage that pays on a loss with no or a low deductible and save all the bells and whistles for your trains. Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13553	From: Wayne Zebron	Date: 6/11/2001
Subject: 0-7 volts

In reply to -- Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 12:48:55 -0500 From: "TWYLA STARR" <starr007@...> Subject: A.F. 30B transformer JR, I have placed a bridge rectifier on each 7-15 volt output of each transformer (this makes the output DC rather than AC) and now can control the direction with a DPDT switch. No need for the e-unit for forward and reverse. I have also placed a brige rectifier in each engine to control direction of current in the field windings, which controls the direction of the original American Flyer motor. In the engines I have replaced the AF motor with can motors I have used this rectifier (in each engine) in series with the DC can motor. One AC terminal to the power souce, the other AC terminal to other power terminal and connect plus + to minus - on the bridge rectifier. This provides about a 2 volt drop and seems to help. (I got this idea form someone on this list when working on a stubborn baldwin) I may try placing another bridge rectifier to provide another voltage drop. By the way the stop speed on my northern is still well over 100 scale miles per hour. I do like your idea of modifying to start a 0 vots instead of 7 volts. Perhaps we can both get some other ideas. Wayne

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13554	From: busyboy	Date: 6/11/2001
Subject: Re: A.F. 30B transformer

J.R. Starr wrote: >Does anyone have any suggestions on modifying a 30B so it would start at 0 volts >instead of 7 so I can use it with one of the new can motor conversion kits and not have >a jack rabbit start? Would it be possible to use a rheostat and a dpdt switch between >the transformer and track to start at 0 volts and to eliminate the e-unit for forward and >reverse. Would I need to use a an A.C. voltmeter to make sure how much power was >going to the track , or would I be better off to just sell the 30B and buy one of the new >dual control transformers? J.R.: Often, when people ask questions, they have already thought out the problem and include the best answer in with the question. Here it is: "I would be better off to just sell the 30B and buy one of the new dual control transformers." Or some other transformer that has a windings set up that starts lower. The MTH 4000 is an interesting choice. This might even be a good time to consider DCC or even TMCC. You could keep your 30B as the power source. Adding a rheostat between the transformer and the track adds complications both physically and electrically. A DPDT switch will only reverse the train if you are actually sending DC to the track and powering the can motor directly from track power. Even though the e-unit is nothing more than a DPDT switch, it outputs to four wires to accomplish reversal in AC. It can reverse a DC motor in two wires. Will you be running other trains? Will they all be running in DC? Do you want them all to reverse at once? It seems that you have brought about more change on your layout than you might have planned to do. Switching to can motors points out the obsolescence and inappropriateness of old power and control equipment. Assess your locomotives. It may make much more sense now to switch over to DC power. Say bye-bye to all those cranky e-units. Run for awhile like HO did for half a century, with an outboard DPDT to reverse block polarity. If all your engines are running well and you have sound board issues all worked out, then consider going full DCC. Your low end throttle problems will be solved in ways that will delight you. Forget jack-rabbit starts, you'll have true momentum as you take up coupler slack. If, on the other hand, you don't want to give up all the bells and whistles and you want to stay in AC, consider getting into the Lionel or MTH systems (I'd probably favor Lionel TMCC at this point) or even the Atlas Loco-Matic, which AM is promoting. Whatever you decide, it's time for a change of horses. Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13555	From: afstrains@aol.com	Date: 6/11/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1041

For those of you who may know him, Vinny Amato is recuperating from surgery after his most recent heart attack back in April. If you would like to send him a note you can do so to the following address and his son Steve will be sure he receives it. Vincent Amato Amato's Hobby Store 395 Main Street Middletown, CT 06457

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13556	From: Mark Preman	Date: 6/11/2001
Subject: American Flyer Trains For Sale

First chance I have had to tell everyone the new list is up even though it has been posted since the 3rd of the month. You can check it out at: http://www.americanflyertrains.com ===== Mark B. Preman AmericanFlyerTrains.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13557	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 6/11/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1042

In a message dated 06/11/2001 2:10:11 AM Mountain Daylight Time, S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes: > Subject: Re: Insuring your trains > > Most major Insurance companies will cover your trains on your Homeowners policy. If you are a renter you can get a "Tenants Package policy" that will do the same thing. Some companies will require you to provide a "schedule" of the trains and some will just automatically offer "blanket" coverage, as does mine. The rates charged by unnamed people in certain magazines is very exorbitant and unnecessary if you have one of the above policies. Regards...Steve. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13558	From: Robert Werre	Date: 6/11/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1042

> Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 11:22:27 -0500 > From: Mike Vana <amflyer@...> > Subject: Insuring your trains > > Often I get asked if my model trains are insured. When > I tell people that they aren't, they reply that I should. > > Does anybody have any advice on this? What type of > insurance should I get, and what is a reasonable rate > to pay? > > Mike Vana Omaha, NE. > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ Mike, the NMRA offers a separate insurance policy that covers the trains--I don't have the policy (I should) but I believe that all that is required is a photo of layout/collection. It is always wise to cover your entire household on video yearly-- we all replace items household or trains and forget to record them. Keep the video in a safety deposit box or mail to a friend. My regular homeowners policy has very tough requirement if your collection is worth a lot. Bob Werre

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13559	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 6/11/2001
Subject: A.F. 30B transformer

I think the 30B is great stuff! No other electric train controller ever made so resembles, and feels like, the controls of a real train, as an American Flyer turret transformer. I want to grasp that handle and drive that train, not push buttons and/or twirl knobs on a remote. It just feels so much better! Yes it's true that you can have better slow speed performance, smoother stops and starts, momentum, DCC control, if you gut your flyer and use electronic DC track power and can motors. But I question whether the relatively small improvement in performance is worth doing all that labor (and damage) on a large Flyer layout. Is the point here to imitate HO? Why bother? Just do HO! We'll buy your S gauge trains (heh heh). These techniques were originally developed for HO trains, which are tiny and tend to run poorly due to the tiny contact area between rails and pickup wheels. American Flyer trains are of a different nature than HO trains. They are larger, heavier, noisier, and more robust. Variations in reverse units and motors give each locomotive a unique personality with its own quirks. I greatly enjoy the fact that it takes some skill at the controls to overcome the problems these quirks produce. Real locomotives were and are far from perfect. Part of the challenge of railroading is to overcome the limitations of the equipment. I replicate this challenge on my toy railroad. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13560	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 6/11/2001
Subject: Live Steam near Baltimore

If you've never been to see the Chesapeake Live Steam Preservation Club http://calslivesteam.org/ at Leakin Park west of Baltimore, you should check it out. My wife, kids, and I went yesterday and had a ball, again. We've gone at least once each of the past four years. Actually yesterday was the best outing so far. The weather was perfect and they were running more trains than ever before. These are 1/8th scale trains that the public gets to ride for free around a very nice park on the second Sunday of the month. They are predominantly coal burning steam miniatures along with some diesels and electrics. There is also a loop or two for 1/12th scale live steamers, but those are for private rides only. Then there's also a section of elevated tracks for 1/16th scale live steamers (ridden side-saddle), but they don't run very often - - the owners are apparently getting too old. Yesterday they were running 1/8th scale - - Pacific, Berkshire, 2 ten-wheelers, Southern Cresent Pacific, WM GP-X diesel, along with a couple 1/12th live steamers to boot. All the 1/8th scale engines were pulling 4 to 12 cars designed for adults and children to sit on for a ride. The detail and craftsmanship in the engines and cars is incredible. Not quite as much fun as Flyer, then again what is, yet a good time for any rail nut. Dave [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13561	From: SCrabTiger@aol.com	Date: 6/11/2001
Subject: 1990 AF Christmas Car

I just round out recently that there was a 1990 AF Christmas Car made. I would like to locate one. Does anyone know of where I could get one from?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13562	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/11/2001
Subject: Re: A.F. 30B transformer

To add to Tom's comments: After all, these trains were made by A C Gilbert, they's suppos'd to run on A C! ;-) Guess I'm just a fuddy-duddy, but I like my AC trains, and YES ! I have tried DC, and it's missing the challenge of AC, even though it's more convenient (for reversing). S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13563	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 6/11/2001
Subject: 30B TRANSFORMER

I have been useing a MRC Tech II 0-27 ac single control I find it great for 1 train.......I do have a DC version Brand new it is the MRC TECH II 2400 DC Anyone want it for $45.00 shipping included let me know.....Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13564	From: sigma@ecn.ab.ca	Date: 6/11/2001
Subject: prototypes

Help! My own reference material does not include what I want. Nor does my local public library have it. And I can't find it on the web. What I want to know is whether Alco ever built any USRA light Pacifics with 74-inch drivers. If anyone can give me the name of a book that contains such info I will request it on inter-library loan. If you can answer the question yourself, so much the better. Joe Pereira email: sigma@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13565	From: Bill Lane	Date: 6/11/2001
Subject: S Helper Service Hirail wheels

Hi All, I have complete S Helper Service Hirail wheel and coupler sets for the following engines. Want 'em? Waddya got to trade? Reply to billlane@... I am not looking for anything huge, just a little something interesting. Surprise me........ 2) F Units 2) SW-1 Thanks Bill

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13566	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 6/11/2001
Subject: Re: Insuring your trains

Hi Mike, I just renewed my policy with American Collectors Insurance Company. Their base is $5000 for $80 per year. They asked for a list of my collection and a photograph. I originally started with them when I saw them in Classic Toy Trains magazine. Currently in Classic Toy Trains is http://www.collectinsure.com Staying on the NPSG branchline of NASG track, Glenn Mike Vana wrote: Often I get asked if my model trains are insured. When I tell people that they aren't, they reply that I should. Does anybody have any advice on this? What type of insurance should I get, and what is a reasonable rate to pay? Mike Vana Omaha, NE.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13567	From: Robert W. Jackson	Date: 6/11/2001
Subject: Invitation to Visit

> Hello All, > I have given specific invitation to certain people whom I know will > be traveling to St. Louis next month to attend the NMRA meeting to stop > by and visit Robert's Railroad. I would like to more generally extend > the invitation to any S scaler/gauger who might be going through, or > near, Springfield, Illinois to visit during that period. I will be > attending the NMRA meeting myself, but I have not decided on what days. > If there are a number of you who would like to visit, either coming or > going, let me know when and I will attempt to schedule my attendance at > the meeting so as to accommodate visitors here. I am about 90 miles > north of St. Louis, just off route I55. I usually take about an hour > and a half to make the trip to St. Louis. Robert's Railroad occupies a > basement room approximately 27 feet by 40 feet. It is a walk in type > and is about 240 feet long measured between its most distant ends. It > is very much still under construction, but the mainline is complete as > is the main yard and a secondary yard. The backdrop is in place as is > some scenery. The locale is Central California with the main prototype > being Santa Fe, but with a significant presence of Espee, and just a > hint of WP. (Some Big Four, NYC, equipment sneaks onto the railroad > from time to time!) Operation is point to point, but there is an > alternate route which permits loop to loop operation. Rail is code > 100. Visiting power has trackage rights. The railroad is powered by > Digitrax DCC, but I can operate one straight DC loco at one time. I > hope that some of you will be able to visit. > Bob Jackson > > The topic is S Scale please keep your messages 'on-topic'. > To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13568	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 6/12/2001
Subject: Re: A.F. 30B transformer

Chirs Zizzo wrote: If, on the other hand, you don't want to give up all the bells and whistles and you want to stay in AC, consider getting into the Lionel or MTH systems (I'd probably favor Lionel TMCC at this point) or even the Atlas Loco-Matic, which AM is promoting. Minor correction: S-Helper Service is using the Atlas Loco-Matic system (on the F3's.) AM uses the OTT Machine works sound system. Rich G. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13569	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 6/12/2001
Subject: 18-B bulb cover colors

My 18 B transformer has missing bulb covers. What are the correct colors (looking at the transformer from the front, as though you were using it), the color sequence, and where can I get the bulbs? Peter Ervin Cumberland, MD

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13570	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 6/12/2001
Subject: Re: BACK D=FROM VACATION PLEASE RE SUBSCRIBE ME.

HELLO: I HAVE RETURNED FROM VACATION. PLEASE RESUBCRIBE ME. thanks!! kite1@... wrote: > On vacation for a couple of weeks. Please unsubscribe me on a temporary > basis. > Thanks Michael - Kite1@... > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13571	From: rxman46321@aol.com	Date: 6/12/2001
Subject: A-M F7 shell

Have a brand new burgandy Pennsy F-7 shell that will be going on Ebay shortly. If any one is interested please contact me off list at RxMan46321@... John Griffin

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13572	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 6/12/2001
Subject: AF diesel armature bearings

Has anyone on this list ever changed the armature bearings on a Flyer diesel motor armature? Are the worms soldered to the armature shaft, or can they just be driven off with a punch? I imagine that replacing the worms exactly the distance they were before is critical. Is this true? Finally, what bearings did yu use? I have heard that the Oilite AA-238 can be used for this application. Any comments from anyone who has actually performed this procedure successfully would be welcome. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13573	From: David	Date: 6/12/2001
Subject: Re: AF diesel armature bearings

I've replaced bearings on AF diesel armatures before. I replaced them with originals, so I don't know of any repro parts applications. Just gently chuck the armature in a vise so one end is out and away so you can get to it. Note how far the end of the shaft sticks out from the end of the gear. It should be about 1/16 inch. Use a large gun type soldering iron, and heat the end of the shaft tovery hot, and using a plyers you can slip the gear off the shaft. Set aside safely as it is hot. Remove and replace the bearing. You may need to lightly sand excess solder on the shaft off with 400 grit paper to be able to slide the old bearing off. Slide the gear on until it sticks out about 1/16 inch. You can put a little masking tape on the shaft on the bearing side, or use a very small clamp to make sure the gear does not slip on too far. Heat the end of the shaft with your gun, and when really hot sweat a tiny amount of solder on the joint on the very end. Don't over do it, just a touch will hold the gear firm. Repeat for the other end if needed.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13574	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 6/12/2001
Subject: New file uploaded to S-Trains

Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the S-Trains group. File : /Self Guided Tour.doc Uploaded by : foley164@... Description : Layouts you can stop at on your way to Steamtown USA 2001 You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/Self%20Guided%20Tour.doc To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, foley164@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13575	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 6/12/2001
Subject: Dinner Date?

I will be in Austin Texas next Monday & Tuesday. Any locals care to get together for dinner?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13576	From: Gonzalo Fernández Gómez	Date: 6/12/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1043

Hi, I am from Argentina and will make a visit to US. I collect American Flyer trains, and wanted to visit some stores to buy some stuff. Can you send me addresses and working hours of stores in Miami and surroundings and Orlando? Thank you very much. -------------------------------------- | Gonzalo R. Fernandez Gomez | | Director - Network Global Facilities | | www.ngf.com.ar - (5411) 4774-3069 | | Miembro del Grupo Consultor SIAD | --------------------------------------

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13577	From: Hannon	Date: 6/12/2001
Subject: A.C.Gilbert S-Gauge Manual

First of all, I'd like to thank all those who responded to the survey (both on- and off-list) this past January and February. Your ideas really helped me to understand what was wanted and to set the scope of the manual. I'm especially grateful to those of you who provided tips on the basic management of this kind of effort (development of a return policy; and implementation of some kind of support for the purchasers of the book) , and the risks I would be facing (number of copies to produce versus final price versus "eating whatever is left over"). I think I've incorporated or implemented most, if not all, of your recommendations. Finally, I would like to thank those who took the time to add their own personal notes to the end of the E-Mail responses. In retrospect, these had a major impact on the final form, content and scope of the manual. The following is a TEMPORARY link to information on the final form and content of the manual. The "Description" section will display a modified extract from the introduction; and the "Details" and "Sample Page" will display an annotated features page and a sample page, respectively (both scrunched down to hopefully fit everyone's screen). The manual itself is expected to be available by June 25 at the latest (unless the printer has a fire). http://www.betterthanbouncing.com/sgauge Thanks again, Bob Hannon

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13578	From: gino restivo	Date: 6/12/2001
Subject: Re: AF diesel armature bearings

hi , all those brgs were available from triple s about 2 years ago they may still be some around ..... they are not hard to change over , a prior response describe the how to if you need to make some use bronze rod have fun, it's time to order 2 book 's from bob hannon ! gino -----Original Message----- From: jarcho@... <jarcho@...> To: S-trains@yahoogroups.com <S-trains@yahoogroups.com> Date: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 3:48 PM Subject: [S-Trains] AF diesel armature bearings >Has anyone on this list ever changed the armature bearings on a Flyer >diesel motor armature? Are the worms soldered to the armature shaft, or >can they just be driven off with a punch? > >I imagine that replacing the worms exactly the distance they were before is >critical. Is this true? > >Finally, what bearings did yu use? I have heard that the Oilite AA-238 can >be used for this application. > >Any comments from anyone who has actually performed this procedure >successfully would be welcome. > >Tom Jarcho > > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > NetZero Platinum No Banner Ads and Unlimited Access Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month! http://www.netzero.net

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13579	From: gino restivo	Date: 6/12/2001
Subject: Re: 443 Trailing Truck

hi ,joe , did you find a trailing truck for your af ho hudson ? if not i'll put it on my list of parts to make ...... gino / gsr -----Original Message----- From: joe messinger <jmessinger@...> To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Date: Thursday, May 31, 2001 12:30 AM Subject: [S-Trains] 443 Trailing Truck >Would anyone know where I might find a trailing truck, either repo. or >original, for an A.F. 443 Hudson HO locomotive? I have tried several train >parts suppliers with no luck. > >Any help will be greatly appreciated. > >Thanks, > >Joe M. >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > NetZero Platinum No Banner Ads and Unlimited Access Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month! http://www.netzero.net

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13580	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 6/12/2001
Subject: Re: A.C.Gilbert S-Gauge Manual

Joe, Looks awesome! The info will be great reference material for trouble shooting, but you'll still get the rewinding work. Don't need to learn more things at this point. Will have an order in the mail shortly. Hope you're autographing them. Roger Petrella Franktown, CO Hannon wrote: > First of all, I'd like to thank all those who responded to the survey > (both on- and off-list) this past January and February. > Your ideas really helped me to understand what was wanted > and to set the scope of the manual. > > I'm especially grateful to those of you who provided tips > on the basic management of this kind of effort (development > of a return policy; and implementation of some kind of > support for the purchasers of the book) , and the risks I > would be facing (number of copies to produce versus final > price versus "eating whatever is left over"). I think I've > incorporated or implemented most, if not all, of your > recommendations. > > Finally, I would like to thank those who took the time to > add their own personal notes to the end of the E-Mail > responses. In retrospect, these had a major impact on the > final form, content and scope of the manual. > > The following is a TEMPORARY link to information > on the final form and content of the manual. The "Description" > section will display a modified extract from the introduction; and > the "Details" and "Sample Page" will display an annotated > features page and a sample page, respectively (both scrunched > down to hopefully fit everyone's screen). The manual itself > is expected to be available by June 25 at the latest (unless > the printer has a fire). > > http://www.betterthanbouncing.com/sgauge > > Thanks again, > > Bob Hannon > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13581	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/12/2001
Subject: Re: A.C.Gilbert S-Gauge Manual

Bob & all, Hey everyone who likes to do stuff "right" here's the info! Just printed out my order for two books! Can't wait!!! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13582	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 6/13/2001
Subject: Poll results for S-Trains

The following S-Trains poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: If a Robert Hannon Repair "book" were to be published which provided detailed diagnostic and repair specifications for most, if not all, A.C. Gilbert S-Gauge electrical component(s): Multiple answers. CHOICES AND RESULTS - I would NOT buy it., 2 votes, 1.18% - Use it to diagnose problems., 32 votes, 18.93% - NOT use it to diagnose problems., 0 votes, 0.00% - I would buy it., 31 votes, 18.34% - Use it use it to perform a repairs, 31 votes, 18.34% - NOT use use it to perform a repairs., 1 votes, 0.59% - Should be Web Based Publication., 14 votes, 8.28% - Should be a traditional hard-copy publication., 28 votes, 16.57% - I also voted Via e-mail., 22 votes, 13.02% - I did not Vote via e-mail, 8 votes, 4.73% INDIVIDUAL VOTES - I would NOT buy it. - Dave0616@... - comic@... - Use it to diagnose problems. - ussbadger@... - jerryfish@... - jmessinger@... - jimsiverling@... - pkingstrain@... - rkuepper@... - lastman@... - joestrainrepair@... - jimpatterson11@... - jhbenton.78@... - Frilen@... - jwysopal@... - cbuckage@... - coachman1385@... - honkelrs@... - aleisen@... - parts22@... - yorke@... - mdkoenig@... - stefengineer@... - wpporter@... - bobgaylord@... - benperryjr@... - jmellon@... - djdewey@... - Dave0616@... - loubaldi@... - cbtrainnut@... - bilfrazier@... - pauljam@... - blange3@... - tom.druga@... - NOT use it to diagnose problems. - I would buy it. - ussbadger@... - jerryfish@... - jmessinger@... - jimsiverling@... - pkingstrain@... - rkuepper@... - lastman@... - joestrainrepair@... - jimpatterson11@... - Frilen@... - jwysopal@... - cbuckage@... - coachman1385@... - honkelrs@... - aleisen@... - roninscho9@... - parts22@... - yorke@... - mdkoenig@... - stefengineer@... - wpporter@... - bobgaylord@... - benperryjr@... - jmellon@... - djdewey@... - loubaldi@... - cbtrainnut@... - bilfrazier@... - pauljam@... - blange3@... - tom.druga@... - Use it use it to perform a repairs - ussbadger@... - jerryfish@... - jmessinger@... - jimsiverling@... - pkingstrain@... - rkuepper@... - lastman@... - joestrainrepair@... - jimpatterson11@... - jhbenton.78@... - Frilen@... - jwysopal@... - cbuckage@... - coachman1385@... - honkelrs@... - aleisen@... - parts22@... - yorke@... - mdkoenig@... - stefengineer@... - wpporter@... - bobgaylord@... - benperryjr@... - jmellon@... - djdewey@... - loubaldi@... - cbtrainnut@... - bilfrazier@... - pauljam@... - blange3@... - tom.druga@... - NOT use use it to perform a repairs. - Dave0616@... - Should be Web Based Publication. - jerryfish@... - jmessinger@... - jimsiverling@... - pkingstrain@... - joestrainrepair@... - jhbenton.78@... - Frilen@... - jwysopal@... - aleisen@... - yorke@... - bobgaylord@... - jmellon@... - Dave0616@... - pauljam@... - Should be a traditional hard-copy publication. - ussbadger@... - jerryfish@... - jmessinger@... - jimsiverling@... - pkingstrain@... - rkuepper@... - lastman@... - joestrainrepair@... - jimpatterson11@... - Frilen@... - jwysopal@... - cbuckage@... - aleisen@... - roninscho9@... - parts22@... - yorke@... - mdkoenig@... - stefengineer@... - wpporter@... - bobgaylord@... - jmellon@... - djdewey@... - loubaldi@... - cbtrainnut@... - bilfrazier@... - pauljam@... - blange3@... - tom.druga@... - I also voted Via e-mail. - jmessinger@... - pkingstrain@... - rkuepper@... - lastman@... - joestrainrepair@... - Frilen@... - jwysopal@... - honkelrs@... - aleisen@... - roninscho9@... - yorke@... - stefengineer@... - wpporter@... - bobgaylord@... - jmellon@... - djdewey@... - loubaldi@... - comic@... - cbtrainnut@... - bilfrazier@... - pauljam@... - tom.druga@... - I did not Vote via e-mail - ussbadger@... - jerryfish@... - jimsiverling@... - cbuckage@... - coachman1385@... - mdkoenig@... - benperryjr@... - Dave0616@... For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13583	From: gino restivo	Date: 6/13/2001
Subject: Re: A.C.Gilbert S-Gauge Manual

hi ,bob .... sending you ( 1) # 26671 track trip ... looking for 695 rev loop relay , will send it / drop off to you when i dig it out , their will be a note in the box for return etc, gino -----Original Message----- From: Hannon <hannon@...> To: toytrains@yahoogroups.com <toytrains@yahoogroups.com>; S-Trains@yahoogroups.com <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>; standg@yahoogroups.com <standg@yahoogroups.com>; TrainColSoc@yahoogroups.com <TrainColSoc@yahoogroups.com> Date: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 9:14 PM Subject: [S-Trains] A.C.Gilbert S-Gauge Manual >First of all, I'd like to thank all those who responded to the survey >(both on- and off-list) this past January and February. >Your ideas really helped me to understand what was wanted >and to set the scope of the manual. > >I'm especially grateful to those of you who provided tips >on the basic management of this kind of effort (development >of a return policy; and implementation of some kind of >support for the purchasers of the book) , and the risks I >would be facing (number of copies to produce versus final >price versus "eating whatever is left over"). I think I've >incorporated or implemented most, if not all, of your >recommendations. > >Finally, I would like to thank those who took the time to >add their own personal notes to the end of the E-Mail >responses. In retrospect, these had a major impact on the >final form, content and scope of the manual. > >The following is a TEMPORARY link to information >on the final form and content of the manual. The "Description" >section will display a modified extract from the introduction; and >the "Details" and "Sample Page" will display an annotated >features page and a sample page, respectively (both scrunched >down to hopefully fit everyone's screen). The manual itself >is expected to be available by June 25 at the latest (unless >the printer has a fire). > > http://www.betterthanbouncing.com/sgauge > > >Thanks again, > >Bob Hannon > > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > NetZero Platinum No Banner Ads and Unlimited Access Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month! http://www.netzero.net

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13584	From: Hannon	Date: 6/13/2001
Subject: Re: A.C.Gilbert S-Gauge Manual

Gino: You know I will have to take it apart and rebuild it, right? It's not just an inspection exercise. I have to take it apart, document it, rebuild it, and retest it to make sure the documentation is correct and that the unit works. That's what prevented their inclusion in the manual in the first place. No one could bear the thought of taking a working piece apart. Heck ... even I had qualms about it. If you decide to go ahead and let me do the complete characterization, there's a free book in it for you. I'll put the update page out on the web (when we get it finalized) so other purchasers can get to it, and update their manuals. Let me know right away if you want to proceed under these conditions, OK? In the meantime, I'll put you down for the #26671. Thanks, Bob gino restivo wrote: > hi ,bob .... sending you ( 1) # 26671 track trip ... > looking for 695 rev loop relay , will send it / drop off > to you when i dig it out , their will be a note in the box > for return etc, gino >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13585	From: softmoods@vcn.com	Date: 6/13/2001
Subject: July Train Show/Swap Meet

Hi All, Please pass the Notice below on to other E-Mail Lists: Sorry for the possible double posts. Sherman Hill Model Railroad Club will be hosting a Model Railroad Show / Swap meet and Afternoon of Railfanning, in Cheyenne, Wyoming. Details of show are below: Date: 14 July 01 Saturday Time: 9:00am - 12:00am Railfanning: Follows Train Show / Swap Meet and Lunch or after lunch 1:30pm Tour the Former Union Pacific Depot and/or The Union Pacific Steam Shops . Limited Number to go ($ 5.00 Club Donation) (NOTE: First Come, First Serve on UP Steam Shop Tour) Location: 121 w 15th st - Downtown Cheyenne - Former Union Pacific Depot Admission: Adults . . . $ 3.50 Children . . $ 1.50 Families . . $ 7.00 Contact: Robert Sherwood 2837 Olive Dr Cheyenne, Wy. 82001-5736 Vendors: Contact For Booth / Table Information I'm looking forward to seeing and visiting with all of you in july. Sincerely, Robert Sherwood, President Sherman Hill Model Railroad Club, Cheyenne, Wyoming Robert Sherwood, Cheyenne, Wyoming

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13586	From: Neimanis,V. [NCR]	Date: 6/13/2001
Subject: 18B bulb covers

Message: 2 Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 09:06:37 -0400 From: Peter Ervin <pjervin@...> Subject: 18-B bulb cover colors My 18 B transformer has missing bulb covers. What are the correct colors (looking at the transformer from the front, as though you were using it), the color sequence, and where can I get the bulbs? Peter Ervin Cumberland, MD ______________________________ The answer is Red, Green, Red for covers. The bulb us 24V AF # PA12A125; as to source, I am not sure. You many wish to try some of the suppliers on this list like Doug Peck, Portline Hobbies (portline@...); or Joe at Joe's train repair (joestrainrepair@.... V. Neimanis _

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13587	From: Donald Abrams	Date: 6/13/2001
Subject: Diesel Armature Bearings

Tom, For years I've used part number 640-8153-122 from Lionel. It's listed in their 2000-2001 Parts Catalog ($0.50 ea.), so therefore still available. The only think I'd add to the replacement procedures previously discussed on this list is the use of a heat sink on the shaft between the bearing and the armature. I get paranoid about excessive heat reaching the windings. At least it can't hurt to do this. Nothing like causing a new problem while fixing another. The heat sink can also be used to maintain the correct distance between the worm gear and the end of the armature shaft. In fact I had a weird repair come in last week. On a 360 alco three of the worm gears had broken free of the armature shaft and were just freewheeling! I've never seen the factory solder job come loose like that. Take care, Don P.S.: In case none of the parts dealers on the list carries the part here's the ordering information from the Lionel Parts Catalog. Lionel P.O. Box 748 New Baltimore, MI 48047-0748 Fax: 810 949-5429 Shipping/Handling is $5.00 under $50 and 10% for orders over $50 P.P.S.: About a year ago I posted to this list regarding the currently available Lionel parts that can be used on old Flyer. Wish I'd kept it in a text file, but didn't. Perhaps a search of the archives would bring it up.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13588	From: Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S.	Date: 6/13/2001
Subject: New Classified Ads Posted

Howdy Friends Just updated the web site to include some new S classified ads.... take a look when you have a minute. http://www.btsrr.com/btsclas1.htm Thanks Bill -- ============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-643-1105 FAX: 813-681-7326 B.T.S. http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13589	From: gino restivo	Date: 6/13/2001
Subject: Re: A.C.Gilbert S-Gauge Manual , part use

hi bob , i have glue and a lotta faith ... if you've seen some pieces i've repro'd , i have no fear's as to what your doing with it , enjoy ! do whatever you need , i got the container cover off last evening , ( couldn't resist it )whats under the hood ? i believe that a contact is missing from the bottom side to the ( corroded ) adjustment screw is their any other pieces that you might need , prewar ? oper car's , or for future reference use , if i can get them back when your done thats fine ........ ps.need a gabe release solenoid rewound , have you done those ? in the book maybe ? gino -----Original Message----- From: Hannon <hannon@...> To: gino restivo <lastman@...> Cc: toytrains@yahoogroups.com <toytrains@yahoogroups.com>; S-Trains@yahoogroups.com <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>; standg@yahoogroups.com <standg@yahoogroups.com>; TrainColSoc@yahoogroups.com <TrainColSoc@yahoogroups.com> Date: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 10:17 AM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] A.C.Gilbert S-Gauge Manual >Gino: > >You know I will have to take it apart and rebuild it, right? > >It's not just an inspection exercise. I have to take it >apart, document it, rebuild it, and retest it to make sure >the documentation is correct and that the unit works. >That's what prevented their inclusion in the manual in the >first place. No one could bear the thought of taking >a working piece apart. Heck ... even I had qualms about >it. > >If you decide to go ahead and let me do the complete >characterization, there's a free book in it for you. I'll >put the update page out on the web (when we get it >finalized) so other purchasers can get to it, and update >their manuals. > >Let me know right away if you want to proceed under >these conditions, OK? In the meantime, I'll put you >down for the #26671. > >Thanks, > >Bob > > >gino restivo wrote: > >> hi ,bob .... sending you ( 1) # 26671 track trip ... >> looking for 695 rev loop relay , will send it / drop off >> to you when i dig it out , their will be a note in the box >> for return etc, gino >> > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > NetZero Platinum No Banner Ads and Unlimited Access Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month! http://www.netzero.net

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13590	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 6/13/2001
Subject: gabe release solenoid

Gino, I have rewound a gabe release solenoid successfully. Believe I used #32 wire from a slot car supplier. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13591	From: gino restivo	Date: 6/13/2001
Subject: Re: gabe release solenoid , thanks

thanks tom , -----Original Message----- From: jarcho@... <jarcho@...> To: S-trains@yahoogroups.com <S-trains@yahoogroups.com> Date: Wednesday, June 13, 2001 10:22 PM Subject: [S-Trains] gabe release solenoid >Gino, I have rewound a gabe release solenoid successfully. Believe I used >#32 wire from a slot car supplier. > >Tom Jarcho > > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > NetZero Platinum No Banner Ads and Unlimited Access Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month! http://www.netzero.net

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13592	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 6/13/2001
Subject: Re: Diesel Armature Bearings

Don wrote: >I had a weird repair come in last week. On a 360 alco three of the >worm gears had broken free of the armature shaft and were just >freewheeling! I've never seen the factory solder job come loose like >that. Sounds like the armatures themselves may have overheated long enough to soften the solder (Duh, y'don't say, Chuck! :D). Do the armature windings look burnt? Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13593	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 6/13/2001
Subject: diesel armature bearing

I have another explanation for Don's 360 with 3 loose worms. In worn and dirty diesel motors, arcing sometimes occurs between the worms and axle gears as electricity flows from the pickup wheels through the axles, gears, worms, armature shaft, and armature bearings, to the chassis. It seems to be a better current path than dirty axle holes. if you had run this loco on the track with the cabin off and the lights out before you fixed it, you might have seen this. The arcing can get pretty spectacular and produce a lot of heat. Once the solder joints began to decay, arcing may even have occurred inside the worms' solder joints. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13594	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 6/14/2001
Subject: 720A SW parts

anyone have 3 remote sw. bulb covers at a reas price also need 12 of the 4-40 knurled nuts....Thanks Mike S. I also have a Tech II DC transformer Brand new...If anyone interested Reas Price

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13595	From: busyboy	Date: 6/14/2001
Subject: USRA Pacifics

Joe Pereira said: >What I want to know is whether Alco ever built any USRA light Pacifics >with 74-inch drivers. Joe: The Atlantic Coast Line rostered 45 USRA light Pacifics. The B&O had 30. The Louisville and Nashville had 6. A total of 81 were constructed. All 20 USRA heavy Pacifics were built for the Erie. This represents original USRA locomotives delivered between 1918 and 1919. Copies of USRA designs will extend this number. However, the above railroad's rosters are a good starting point to check for driver size. I got the above information from steamlocomotive.com in a chart of USRA allocations. From the same site's page on Pacifics I also got the following: There were two classes of 4-6-2 locomotives designed and built under Government auspices; one, the generally called "light", more correctly 4-6-2A, with 55,000 lbs weight per driving axle, and "heavy", 4-6-2B, with 60,000 lbs per driving axle. The "light" 4-6-2 was a beautifully balanced locomotive. It had a large boiler, as, indeed, did all of the USRA locomotives. 73 inch drivers were ideal for a period when train speeds (and, particularly, under wartime restrictions) when 70/75 mph speeds were sufficient. 25 x 28 cylinders were a good proportion, but the locomotive design had a starting tractive effort of over 40,000 lbs, at time when relatively few Pacifics had such a high starting tractive effort. The railroads to which these locomotives were assigned were the Atlantic Coast Line, which received 45, plus 25 non-USRA follow-ups; the Baltimore & Ohio, 30 units from the USRA, 15 subsequently, and the L&N, which received 6, later ordering 20 more. One of the most interesting developments was on the ACL. This company ordered 165 further Pacifics, identical to the USRA ones, except that they had 69-inch drivers and 210 lbs boiler pressure. These Pacifics, with a starting tractive effort of 45,275 lbs. On the relatively flat route between Richmond and Savannah, these Pacifics had a freight tonnage rating of 4400 tons (unadjusted) in either direction. And, with their 69 inch drivers. they were more than capable of maintaining the moderate passenger train schedules of the 1920s and early 1930s. I hope this provides some of the background you need. Why not go to http://www.steamlocomotive.com and read the material in depth? The internet will generally provide whatever you are looking for. Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13596	From: Neil Trump	Date: 6/14/2001
Subject: 600 crossing gate

Not sure if this is old news, but I see that MTH has cancelled the 600 crossing gate Neil T [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13597	From: Hannon	Date: 6/14/2001
Subject: A.C.Gilbert Survey ... NAME NOT ON FINAL POLL LIST

Name not on poll? Here's the explanation: The poll started on January 17. At that point, I was tallying your names, responses and sending out thank-you notes as fast as I could and, in some cases, asking additional questions. At the beginning of February, Paul Yorke sent me an E-Mail saying he'd be glad to set up the "egroup/yahoogroups" polling feature so I wouldn't have to retransmit the poll periodically to the list. Neither of us knew the response level was almost at its end by that time. To those who filled out the automated poll, I did not you send a discrete thank-you note because only a fragment of your e-mail address was exposed while the poll was active. Everyone who replied before the poll was automated got a confirmation "thank-you" e-mail, and your vote was definitely counted. Thanks Bob Hannon

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13598	From: Donald Abrams	Date: 6/14/2001
Subject: diesel armature bearings

The 360 with the 3 loose worm gears did have badly worn axle bearings and I put bushings in the chassis as part of the overall repair process.I did not put it on the track and attempt to run it before my repairs began so I don't know if it was arcing through the armature shaft worm gears. The armatures themselves stood up to whatever punishment they were subjected to, and the piece ran very strong when repairs were completed. Don

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13599	From: joeawood@aol.com	Date: 6/14/2001
Subject: Traveling

Iam currently working In Charleston WV. if there are any list members in the central part of the state it would be nice to hear from you. Off list is fine JOEAWOOD@... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13600	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/14/2001
Subject: Re: 600 crossing gate

WHAT!!! Augh!! and I've been avoiding buying old ones, as I figure the new ones won't be broken and will be discounted. I hope this isn't a sign that he's been disapointed in sales of coal towers and Gabes. Crossing my fingers that the log loader is still on track. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13601	From: Karl Raab	Date: 6/14/2001
Subject: Re 600 Crossing Gate

I agree with David...I had the same thoughts, and had passed up rebuildable originals. I was waiting until it was released, and hoped to pick up at least two nice shiny new ones. If it was slightly discounted, so much the better. OK, how many of us were planning the same strategy...and planned ourselves right out of the running? Karl

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13602	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 6/15/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, June 17, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13603	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 6/15/2001
Subject: diesel bell part

Does anyone have an arm and clapper assembly for a Flyer bell ringing diesel? The one I have is broken off right above the two rivets on the arm. Thanks. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13604	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 6/15/2001
Subject: eBay

Hype1999@... has some unusual stuff he is puuting up on auction.Much looks restorable/repairable.I can't afford most of it.Check it out.Keith _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13605	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 6/15/2001
Subject: Vacation

Please take me off list for vacation Thank You....Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13606	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 6/15/2001
Subject: Vacation

Please take me off list while I'm on vacation Thank You....Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13607	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 6/16/2001
Subject: testing

testing

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13608	From: Donald Abrams	Date: 6/16/2001
Subject: 21145 0-8-0 motor

Does anyone on the list have this loco in their collection? If it wouldn't be too much trouble could you measure the thickness (length?) of the armature laminations. The one in my collection has a motor with the drum type commutator and 1/2" laminations on the field and 7/16" on the armature (not including the fiber end pieces). I'm wondering if this is "correct" and original to the locomotive. Something in the back or my brain is telling me the motor should be bigger. Somewhere between the super motor and the more or less standard 1/2" motor. It looks as it there's a little room between the reverse unit and the cab curtain. Thanks in advance, Don

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13609	From: Donald Abrams	Date: 6/16/2001
Subject: Loose driver rim tip

I'm not sure if this has come up before, so I thought I'd share it. I use about a 6" length of packaging string soaked in alcohol and after pushing the loose rim back, give a "shoeshine" to the exposed surface of the whitewall. Makes for a clean, solid bond when used as a prep for Zap-a-Gap superglue. Don

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13610	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 6/16/2001
Subject: Re: 21145 0-8-0 motor

Don: I think the field and armature laminations should be the same thickness. I have found at least 3 different size armatures in 5 digit steamers, not counting the large motor. As Flyer got cheaper, armatures got smaller. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13611	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 6/16/2001
Subject: Re: 21145 0-8-0 motor

In a message dated 6/16/01 8:25:00 PM, donabrams@... writes: << If it wouldn't be too much trouble could you measure the thickness (length?) of the armature laminations. The one in my collection has a motor with the drum type commutator and 1/2" laminations on the field and 7/16" on the armature (not including the fiber end pieces). >> Don, Just measured the (drum commutator) motor my 21145 for you. The length of JUST the laminations is 9/16 inch for the field and 1/2 inch for the armature -- nominally the 5/8 inch motor. The engine is all original. Hope this helps. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13612	From: Robert Allen Conner NCARB Architect	Date: 6/16/2001
Subject: FARM SETS

Clear DayDoes anyone know how a FARM SET is packed? 5001T. I know the contents, but I have 5 sets and all are packed differently....so.....how did ac pack them. Bob Where can I find some cheap knuckle flats for repainting. Bob [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13613	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 6/16/2001
Subject: Monon flat cars

I have 2 AF #24550 Monon flat cars (K.C.) that show absolutely no signs of ever having had trailer mounts on them. Would they have had another load originally? Might they have been part of a set? I've always wondered about them. Does anyone know? Thanks. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13614	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 6/17/2001
Subject: Re: FARM SETS

Hi Bob, Fred Jester has just about every part and many trains that Gilbert ever made. He also has repro parts and cheap flats which I have painted for my Circus Train. Fred's Train Parts 2102 Concord Road Chester, PA 19013 610-494-4578 Robert Allen Conner NCARB Architect wrote: Where can I find some cheap knuckle flats for repainting. Bob

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13615	From: milorod@aol.com	Date: 6/17/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1044, message #9

Mr. Gomez, I recommend that you stop in to READY-To-ROLL, in Miami. THey have a few original Flyer items, and carry American Models & S-helper Engines & Freight cars, along with being a FULL service Lionel & MTH dealer, so you can get some of those re-production accessories too. Bill Lucas is the owner, and tell him that Milo, sent you by, he'll give you the store tour. Have fun! Milo Rodriguez J&M Custom Model Train Layouts ____________________________________________________________ Message: 9 Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 20:34:40 -0300 From: Gonzalo Fernández Gómez <ngf@...> Subject: RE: Digest Number 1043 Hi, I am from Argentina and will make a visit to US. I collect American Flyer trains, and wanted to visit some stores to buy some stuff. Can you send me addresses and working hours of stores in Miami and surroundings and Orlando? Thank you very much. -------------------------------------- | Gonzalo R. Fernandez Gomez | | Director - Network Global Facilities | | www.ngf.com.ar - (5411) 4774-3069 | | Miembro del Grupo Consultor SIAD | --------------------------------------

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13616	From: TWYLA STARR	Date: 6/17/2001
Subject: 30B Transformers

If anyone is interested, I have 2 30B transformers I would like to part with. I would like to trade for some engines, rolling stock, etc.If not I will sell them outright. If anyone is interested you may contact me at starr007@... for more information. Thanks in advance, J.R.Starr [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13617	From: John Foley	Date: 6/17/2001
Subject: NASG Convention News

Hi Folks To those who are coming to the NASG Steamtown 2001 convention in Scranton Pa. and signed up for the Early Bird layout trip 2, and those who are thinking about it, a Bonus. Harry Kidd who has a AF layout and a huge AF collection has been added to the tour. Still room fellas. John Foley Convention Co-Chairmen

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13618	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 6/17/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, June 17, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13619	From: Doug Peck	Date: 6/17/2001
Subject: Re: Diesel armature bearings

We stock the bearings, and yes, they are soldered onto the shaft. Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@... -----Original Message----- For years I've used part number 640-8153-122 from Lionel.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13620	From: jseltzer@larich.com	Date: 6/18/2001
Subject: Wanted: Korber S gauge Ice house & Platform kit

I am looking for the Korber Models S gauge #310 Ice House & Platform and #310A Ice Platform extention. Korber made these models in a small quantity 3-4 years ago and discontinued them due to poor demand. They were advertises in the S Gaugian for a time along with their S scale diesel shop kit. If anyone knows of thses kits for sale, please contact me off list. Josh Seltzer jmssgauger@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13621	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 6/18/2001
Subject: OT: engineering trivia]

Thought you guys might like this bit of info I got from another newsgroup. It sort of relates to trains. Roger Petrella Franktown, CO [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13622	From: BENJAMIN PERRY	Date: 6/18/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] OT: engineering trivia]

Strike Two; think I'll step out of the box to see if the coach wants me to hit away or take :-]. ------ Original Message ----- From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. Sent: Mon, Jun 18, 2001 3:23pm To: <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>; <s-scale@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [S-Scale] OT: engineering trivia] Thought you guys might like this bit of info I got from another newsgroup. It sort of relates to trains. Roger Petrella Franktown, CO [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] The topic is S Scale please keep your messages 'on-topic'. To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13623	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 6/19/2001
Subject: OT: Engineering trivia

Since the text from my my last message got edited out by yahoo, here is a link where you can read some interesting trivia about the width of railroad tracks (and other things). Don't know how much may be factual, but it is interesting anyway. You may have to type the URL in yourself, as I think that Yahoo may take the click on link out. Go to: http://www.snopes.com/spoons/fracture/gauge.htm. http://www.snopes.com/spoons/fracture/gauge.htm Roger Petrella Franktown, CO

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13624	From: John Foley	Date: 6/19/2001
Subject: Covention Hotels

Hi Folks I visited the four NASG Steamtown 2001 convention hotels. As you probably know the Radisson is full. The three others { Clarion, Comfort Suites and The Hampton } still have rooms. The main reason for this note is to let you know that all rooms not reserved by July 10th will be released back to the hotels. You can find the hotels information at http://trainweb.org/steamtown2001/ John Foley Convention Co-Chairman

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13625	From: hsjobbins@juno.com	Date: 6/19/2001
Subject: Pics of AM E-8's on line.

The actual color prototype pictures are on line. The PRR in Brunswick Green is fabulous, as is the NYC, Burlington, and ATSF, as the stainless screening sets the theme for certain color schemes.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13626	From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton	Date: 6/19/2001
Subject: TCA Convention in Chattanooga--American Flyer Meeting

Hello, I wanted to provide an update of where we are with the "American Flyer Trains...KEEP 'EM RUNNING" session we are holding 1PM to 4PM Thursday, June 28 at the TCA host hotel, the Chattanooga Marriott, in the Sequoia Room. Requests of all the American Flyer vendors, traders and suppliers that we know have brought a FLOOD of door prizes for the meeting. At last count, we had at least THIRTEEN door prizes donated. Several dealers will be setting up on the trading floor on Thursday morning, so they have informed us that they will be at the get -together. If you attend the TCA Convention, be sure to look for our flyer at the registration/sign-in table. If you have any further questions, please feel free to write me. The group planning this function is really looking forward to the companionship and exchange of ideas, information and stories by those who can attend. If you cannot personally attend, but know of a Gilbert enthusiast who will be at the Convention, please notify them about the affair. More later. Best regards, Steve Pendleton and Fred Faist [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13627	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 6/20/2001
Subject: Model Railroad News - MRN

I've just submitted the August "S Curves" column to the Model Railroad News. It's my sixth column beginning in October 2000. Add to that the two columns that the late John Craft wrote and we are well into our second year of producing the column. I remember a comment after John's first column that S had "shot it's wad" and "how are we going to fill up a second column"? Well, 8 columns later, I still have lots of stuff to put into the columns. I want everyone to know what a friend we have in MRN. Mike Lindsay and Michael J. Pratt have been absolutely supportive to the column and S in general. AM and PHM and the NASG have been regular advertisers furthering our cause even more. Many other companies that carry S products also advertise there. There are lots of reviews of S products, too. MRN will be covering the NASG convention and will give John Foley copies of MRN to hand out at the convention. They have a deal where you can get 3 free issues for subscribing. It's a shame, but I have no way of measuring the impact or success of the column. So far, I've only received two emails via MRN. They were questions on AF. I really enjoy doing the column so I will keep on writing it. You never know who's out there considering what scale to model in. If this sounds like a commercial so be it. I just want everyone to know that while we struggle for growth that it's nice to have a large and growing publication in our corner. Roy

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13628	From: Neil Trump	Date: 6/20/2001
Subject: A good day at the auctions

Gents, I/we over hear across the pond had a good day at a local train auction with some Flyer. We managed to pick up some early Flyer that had most of the boxes! It all appears to be in E to E+ condition and included a Royal Blue set, 310 pass. set and a 322 freight set. Being that there are only two people in the UK that collecte/operate Flyer, it meant the competition was nil, brilliant!! We cleaned up with some reasonable bids, the R/Blue went for just over £50 and a really nice E+ 310 went for just over £40. The best deal went on a lot that contained a 12B (boxed), 8B, and 718 mail pick up set(boxed), complete, for £14. We also picked up all the freight/passenger cars for a good price as well which topped off an excellent day. It's nice to find that even over here Flyer can still turn up, and this was a nice collection to find. Neil T. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13629	From: LEAHY RUTH A	Date: 6/21/2001
Subject: A.F. coal

With the new MTH Coal Loader now out, what are you guys finding for coal that works best on this new accessory? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks! Mike Leahy

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13630	From: dlehnhoff@hotmail.com	Date: 6/21/2001
Subject: Coal Loader Coal

I've tried a variety of types. Right now I'm using Woodland Scenes coarse Ballast. It is light, and of a consistant size. Has anybody come up with a simple way to speed the operation up? Dwight Lehnhoff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13631	From: d.garber@home.com	Date: 6/21/2001
Subject: software on E-bay

Has anyone used the software for Model train collectors being sold on E-bay .Item 1608667465 It will be in the completed area after about 3pdt but will be re-listed. Are better ones on the market. thanks d.garber@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13632	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 6/21/2001
Subject: Re: software on E-bay

I haven't tried that one, but I use Train Tracker. It's advertised in most magazines. Very easy to use, can be modified to your needs, and ties the Greenberg price guide into the database for valuing the collection. Roger Petrella Franktown, CO d.garber@... wrote: > Has anyone used the software for Model train collectors being > sold on E-bay .Item 1608667465 It will be in the completed area after > about 3pdt but will be re-listed. Are better ones on the market. > thanks d.garber@... > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13633	From: David	Date: 6/21/2001
Subject: Just to make conversation...

Is it me, or is anyone else tired of seeing the: American Flyer Tin Sign .... Buy It Now for $7.95 on E-bay???? :o)~

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13634	From: David Garber	Date: 6/21/2001
Subject: Re: just to make conversation

This person has 2209 items up at this time on E-bay, MOST with no bid. Must have a large inventory or makes them up when order comes in and that is not to often.He spends a lot of time listing items. I wonder what would do if he got 500 orders??

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13635	From: sigma@ecn.ab.ca	Date: 6/21/2001
Subject: Flyer Pacifics

This is one of the times I could wish I didn't live 2,817 miles from whatever library or archive has the info I'm after. Fortunately for me the people on this loop are helpful and generous, as they have been once again regarding my search for certain off-beat info on the prototypes for Flyer Pacifics. and I thank them all. Here's what we have (or think we have) to this point. The first Pacific produced by Flyer was based on USRA 4-6-2 "A" and was lettered for Chicago & North Western. C&NW had 242 Pacifics, all built by Alco, and some of them (not yet confirmed) folllowed the USRA "A" design. Canadian Pacific had 41 Pacifics built by the Alco subsidiary Montreal Locomotive Works (25 in 1923, 16 in 1926). It appears (subject to confirmation) that at least some of these followed Alco's version of USRA 4-6-2 "A." If that is so then a Flyer C&NW Pacific with a Canadian Pacific-style enclosed cab would begin to look like an MLW product from the 1920s. I'm expecting that a couple of other people will take it from there. Myself, being a Canadian National modeller, I could hardly care less, but as secretary of S Canada I get to field all sorts of queries. Again, thinks to all who have responded. Joe Pereira email: sigma@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13636	From: Rick Evans	Date: 6/21/2001
Subject: Re: Just to make conversation...

"David" wrote: ***(((Is it me, or is anyone else tired of seeing the: American Flyer Tin Sign .... Buy It Now for $7.95 on E-bay????)))*** Maybe ifn' we all bought one,...the seller would finally run out of 'em!!! :-) Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13637	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 6/21/2001
Subject: Diner end

I am looking for one end to a chrome plasticville diner.Keith _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13638	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 6/21/2001
Subject: Re: Just to make conversation...

And how about the guy who keeps listing the uncouplers for 5.99 and 6.99? Roger Petrella Franktown, CO Rick Evans wrote: > "David" wrote: > ***(((Is it me, or is anyone else tired of seeing the: American > Flyer Tin Sign .... Buy It Now for $7.95 on E-bay????)))*** > > Maybe ifn' we all bought one,...the seller would finally run out > of 'em!!! :-) > > Rick. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13639	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 6/21/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer Pacifics

Joe Pereira wrote: >Here's what we have (or think we have) to this point. >The first Pacific produced by Flyer was based on USRA 4-6-2 "A" and >was lettered for Chicago & North Western. Joe, I must take back what I posted earlier about the AF C&NW Pacific. On closer inspection of my copy of Kalmbach's Steam Locomotives, I see a prototype that better fits the AF model than a USRA Light Pacific (which according to the same source, C&NW never owned anyway.) It's a E2 class Pacific, shown on pages 152 and 153. The examples in the photos are very similar to the USRA Light, but seem to follow the Flyer plastic boiler shell a little more closely. Besides that, all carry C&NW markings! (D'OH!) Very sorry, should have noticed this before. BTW, the AF plastic C&NW Pacific (whatever its prototype) was the LAST 4-6-2 that Flyer came up with, not the first. Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13640	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 6/21/2001
Subject: Flyer Pacifics

There is a photo on p. 68 of Lucius Beebe's book "HIgh Iron", that I always thought was of the Flyer plastic Pacific's protptype. It's a shot of the C & NW's passenger train, "The 400". TRouble is, the shot is too head on to be sure. It certainly does look like the Flyer one, though. Here's the caption: "The Chicago and North Western's 400 was the first of the modern steam-drawn trains of conventional steel construction to challenge the then growing hold of light-weight streamlined Diesel-electric trains on the popular imagination. The 409-mile run between Chicago and St. Paul was carded for 390 minutes. A team of high speed heavy Pacifics was rebuilt with every improvement known to the North Western's executives: 79-inch drivers, cross-counterbalanced to assure smooth action, oil fuel installation, new main driving axles, crank-pins and piston-rods, superheater units and high-speed piston valves of new design. Passenger accommodations were modernized throughout and luxuriously decorated and a wide campaign of exploitatiojn and publicization was undertaken. Within a few months the 400 was the most talked-of train in the land and from that day to this it has been one of the crtack successful flyers of America. Rolling down the main at high speed, the 400 is shown pulling out of the North Western Station in Chicago at three o'clock of a spring afternoon." This COULD be the loco they were attempting to model. "High Iron" was orig8inally published in 1938, although my copy is a later reprint. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13641	From: afstrains@aol.com	Date: 6/22/2001
Subject: Re: Vinny Amato

This is a note to let those of you who don't already know, Vinny Amato of Amato's Hobby Stores recently underwent heart surgery. He is recuperating well and is still in the hospital. If you would like to send him a note e-mails can go to Amatohobby@... or Vincent Amato, 395 Main Street, Middletown, CT 06457. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13642	From: John Foley	Date: 6/22/2001
Subject: Walgreens

Hi Folks, Gregg Miller called me and said that Walgreens Drug Stores is selling an anniversary car. It is a 1/60th Chrysler PT Cruiser in different colors. Check it out! John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13643	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 6/22/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, June 24, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13644	From: Rick Evans	Date: 6/22/2001
Subject: Re: Plasticville Diner end

To keith and others in search of Plasticville, be sure to check out Plasticville@yahoogroups.com Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13645	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 6/23/2001
Subject: Re: A.F. coal

In a message dated 6/21/01 6:42:01 PM, ruth.leahy@... writes: << With the new MTH Coal Loader now out, what are you guys finding for coal that works best on this new accessory? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks! Mike Leahy >> No. 1105 Life Like coal works great in the original Gilberts -- it should be fine for the Chunking Flyer versions, as well. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13646	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 6/23/2001
Subject: 5 digit diesels

Would anyone on list have a 5 digit double motor diesel opened up on their workbench, or an unbodied chassis of same? I would like a description of the wiring scheme, the one where both fields and both brush pairs are wired together to the 2 step reverse unit, such as in the Missouri Pacific. I'm considering writing an article on diesel wiring schemes and don't have access to that one; there are others which I do have. Thanks. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13647	From: chalmetteref1@yahoo.com	Date: 6/23/2001
Subject: AF by LTI Union Pacific Passenger Set For Sale

Hello -- I'm a member of the Crescent City S-Gaugers and am new to the S- List. One of our club members suggested that I post this offer on the S-List. (In doing so, I hope I'm not violating an unwritten rule about buying and selling via the S-List.) I am offering for sale the Lionel Passenger Set, the Union Pacific "Pony Express". I purchased it new when it was offered by Lionel -- maybe around 1991 or so. I've only had it out of the boxes for test purposes and a couple of club meetings. The set consists of the Powered A Alco, Dummy A Alco, and 5 (not 4) passenger cars. (I bought the extra vista dome car that Lionel offered later on.) I'm asking $750 for everything, since they are in excellent condition and hardly used. If anyone is interested, please respond to my regular e-mail address: arandallw@.... Art Weller

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13648	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 6/23/2001
Subject: S Video update

Hi everyone, Just a note to pass on information on how Volume II of "S-gauge Model Railroading" is coming along. I'll be ready to ship about Sept 1 for those of you that are interested. Some of the editing is done and the format has been decided. I also wanted to add a note that some people who ordered Volume 1 never sent payment and as a result I still have a few (very few) left for anyone that missed out on the original go around. I don't plan to print any more of Volume 1, so first come, first served, on the remainder. The price is $13 and includes shipping. Regards and thanks....Steve Steve Blackburn 3239 Pepperwood Dr. Boise, Idaho 83704 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13649	From: M.McConnell	Date: 6/23/2001
Subject: Dollar off coupons

There are several dollar-off coupons that may be useful to those going to Steamtown for the convention. You can print them out for yourself by visiting: http://www.microserve.net/~magicusa/couponall.html (give the page some time to load - it's slow) The coupons are for the Lackawanna Coal Mine, Houdini Magic Show and the Trolley Museum.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13650	From: Scott Brown	Date: 6/24/2001
Subject: Good Reading

Last week, David Horn emailed our club with a link to a magazine article. It is a story from a book called The Nerve of Foley by Frank Spearman. I highly recommend you take a look : http://www.newromanticist.com/literature/foley.htm This is just one of the great short stories you will find in this and 3 other books by the author. I ordered the books online http://www.papertig.com/spearman.htm and am really enjoying the short stories about the engineers and railroad men of the early days of last century. The books were written in 1900 - 1906 and are very well written. The characters continue through many of the stories and most stories are of personal bravery and the challenges the railroad faced. It's been a while since I've found a book I've enjoyed so much. The books are hard cover and all 4 can be had for $40. I would highly recommend you get them if you enjoy reading about adventure and the RR. Scott Brown Atlantic Coast S Gaugers Washington & Old Dominion Division

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13651	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 6/24/2001
Subject: Good reading

Scott and everyone: two comments. 1. I have been looking for an ou t of print children's book called "The Roundhouse and Mr. Pickering", a children's book about a NYC Roundhouse and the engines and people that work there. Anyone on list know about this book? 2. My favorite book about trains is called "The Situation in Flushing", by Edmund S. Love. It's an autobiographical book about the author, a small boy growing up in Flushing, Michigan shortly after the turn of the century, when cars whre replacing horses, electricity was coming into use, and other changes in small town America were happening rapidly. The author was a total train freak and devoted most of his energy to the trains and men of the Grand Trunk Railroad branch which served his town. It's full of hilarious adventures and misadentures and is totally charming. According to the GTW historical society guys, it's faiirly accurate too. It has apparently been reissued by Wayne State University Press. Edmund S Love was quite a writer -- he wrote military history, general fiction, a hit Broadway show, and other things. One of the most special books I ever read. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13652	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 6/24/2001
Subject: Antivirus Protection - Off topic

If you don't have 'current' antivirus software on your PC I suggust you get some. The next document you read could contain a virus that could wipe out every bit of data on your hard drive. Visit http://www.symantec.com/homecomputing/ for Norton or http://www.mcafee.com for Mcafee I use the online option, that way it reminds me whenever there is a new update available. New virus show up every day.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13653	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 6/24/2001
Subject: Re: Antivirus Protection - Off topic

Also try Computer Associates for InoculateIT Personal Edition. Any search engine will pick it out from "InoculateIT"; Also Zonealarm as a Firewall provides additional protection and Command Central another anti-virus. These are FREE downloads. On Sun, 24 Jun 2001 13:19:07 -0400 Paul Yorke <yorke@...> writes: > If you don't have 'current' antivirus software on your PC I suggust > you > get some. The next document you read could contain a virus that > could > wipe out every bit of data on your hard drive. > > Visit http://www.symantec.com/homecomputing/ for Norton > or > http://www.mcafee.com for Mcafee > > I use the online option, that way it reminds me whenever there is a > new > update available. New virus show up every day. > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13654	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 6/24/2001
Subject: Flyer Pacifics

Tom Jarcho wrote: >There is a photo on p. 68 of Lucius Beebe's book "HIgh Iron", that I >always thought was of the Flyer plastic Pacific's protptype. It's a >shot of the C& NW's passenger train, "The 400". TRouble is, the >shot is too head on to be sure. It certainly does look like the >Flyer one, though. >This COULD be the loco they were attempting to model. Yes, it could very well be (although the E2 in its earliest configuration, with 75" drivers, seems to resemble the Gilbert CNW Pacific more closely.) According to the same source I quoted before, four E2 engines were modified to E2a class with 79" drivers and other improvements, specifically for hauling the 400. Later, more were converted to E2b class with similar modifications. Anyway, that's what Kalbach's book says. I still can't help leaning toward the USRA light though. The USRA and E2 are so similar in line. If you look at DOMES, the USRA design would seem to be the choice. But, since CNW by all accounts didn't have USRA locos, one wonders. Sorry, I don't mean to stir the pot on this controversy, but I just can't be sure anymore. Must be all that excitement about AM's SD60. :) Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13655	From: David	Date: 6/24/2001
Subject: Re: Antivirus Protection - Off topic

I use McAfee for the basic stuff, but a must use, which I use, is Zone Alarm to keep prying eyes out, and Ad-Aware to keep the Spyware out. Both are Freeware. You'd be amazed at how much goes on behind the scenes. AOL is the worse snoop I ever saw. Plenty more out there as well. I'm getting pinged as I type. But I am protected. :o)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13656	From: Robert W. Jackson	Date: 6/24/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Antivirus Protection - Off topic

Paul Yorke wrote: > If you don't have 'current' antivirus software on your PC I suggust you > get some. The next document you read could contain a virus that could > wipe out every bit of data on your hard drive. > > Visit http://www.symantec.com/homecomputing/ for Norton > or > http://www.mcafee.com for Mcafee > > I use the online option, that way it reminds me whenever there is a new > update available. New virus show up every day. Paul, About a month ago I installed McAfee Virus Scan Deluxe. It screwed up my system badly. Slowed it nearly to a halt and did something or another to the operating system (Windows 98). I am not sure, but I think it had something to do with automatic making of backup files. I uninstalled it with a great deal of effort. Now what? Bob Jackson

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13657	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 6/24/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, June 24, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13658	From: John Foley	Date: 6/24/2001
Subject: Steamtown USA Schedule

Hi Folks THE schedule for the NASG Steamtown USA convention is posted on our website At: http://trainweb.org/steamtown2001/ Also the Steamtown Museum schedule is now posted at their website http://www.nps.gov/stea/home.htm John Foley [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13659	From: Scott Holm	Date: 6/24/2001
Subject: Re: Antivirus Protection - Off topic

--- Paul Yorke <yorke@...> wrote: > If you don't have 'current' antivirus software on your PC I suggust > you get some. The next document you read could contain a virus that > could wipe out every bit of data on your hard drive. > You don't need virus protection if you NEVER open executables, such as .exe files, even if they come from a friend. Also, viruses that haven't been identified will go right by virus protection software. Be careful too of .doc and .dot files as they could contain word macros that contain viruses. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13660	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 6/24/2001
Subject: MTH GABE EVALUATION REQUESTED

Who out there has purchased the MTH "Gabe The Lamp Lighter"? I saw one in the train store the other day. It states that Gabe climbs up the ladder, turns on the light, and then climbs back down. The MTH control buttons look the same as the Flyer buttons, but doesn't Gabe slide down the ladder rather than climb? Does anyone know if the Lionel version will climb down or slide? I have purchased the MTH repo of the 785 coal loader. Very nice, but operation is much slower than the original. I will look forward to hearing from ya'll. regards Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13661	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/24/2001
Subject: Re: MTH GABE EVALUATION REQUESTED

Michael, My MTH Gabe climbs up by pushing the button repeatedly. Once at the top, one must push down and turn the light button to turn on the lamps and keep them on. Gabe slides back down when the "release" button is pushed. AFAIK, this is identical to the ACG unit. Would have been nice if more "realism" could have been added, BUT! this is still a fun accessory, and the "small fry" will love it! Don't know what/if the L version will be like. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13662	From: Wayne Broadhead	Date: 6/24/2001
Subject: Re: MTH GABE EVALUATION REQUESTED

Hi Michael, Yes, I bought the MTH coal loader.....you are right in your observation about it being slow......it is a beautiful reproduction....I am very pleased with the way it looks.....but the operation is MUCH to slow.......you have to have lots of patience for the bucket to make it to the coal...then back up and into the tower.....way to slow for my grandkids to use.........MTH needs to make a new gearset with the AF gear ratio....so things go much faster. Wayne Broadhead kite1@... wrote: > > Who out there has purchased the MTH "Gabe The Lamp Lighter"? I saw one > in the train store the other day. It states that Gabe climbs up the > ladder, turns on the light, and then climbs back down. The MTH control > buttons look the same as the Flyer buttons, but doesn't Gabe slide down > the ladder rather than climb? Does anyone know if the Lionel version > will climb down or slide? > > I have purchased the MTH repo of the 785 coal loader. Very nice, but > operation is much slower than the original. I will look forward to > hearing from ya'll. > regards Michael > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13663	From: Robert Allen Conner NCARB Architect	Date: 6/25/2001
Subject: Re: Antivirus Protection - Off topic

I GOT A VIRUS FROM SOMEONE ON THIS LIST LAST YEAR....SPENT MORE THAN 800.00 TRYING TO GET RID OF IT, AND I HAD JUST INSTALLED A NEW 4000.00 MACHINE!!!!!!! GOT REINFECTED RECENTLY, MCCAFFEE IS JUST NO GOOD!!!!, AND NORTON WAS REINSTALLED....WORKING FINE NOW...STILL HAVE A COMPUTER THAT CAN'T BE USED DUE TO THE WORM SPREADING.....THIS VIRUS CAME IN A LETTER THAT DIDN'T HAVE TO BE OPENED....HOW THIS IS FUN TO PEOPLE I DO NOT KNOW.....IF I DON'T USE MY COMPUTER....I DON'T WORK!!!!! BOB CONNER

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13664	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 6/25/2001
Subject: Re: Antivirus Protection - Off topic

I understand the Viruses are written for Microsoft programs. They do not seem to effect Apple computers and has not bothered Netscape. Larry Jackman Robert Allen Conner NCARB Architect wrote: >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13665	From: John Foley	Date: 6/25/2001
Subject: Contest forms

Hi Folks If you are planning to enter any of the model or photo contests at the NASG Steamtown convention you can print out the forms at. http://trainweb.org/steamtown2001/contests/index.html Fill them out and save time at the convention. John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13666	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 6/25/2001
Subject: repro graphics

I am @#$%^&* sick and @#$%^&* tired of trying to do serious Flyer repair and restoration work with the @#$%^&* repro stickers decals and transfers that are now available. They are just total @#$%^&* in terms of size, color, font, materials, artwork, and every @#$%^&* thing else. It's been driving me @#$%^&* nuts for years. Can't we do something? Maybe an online repository of digital images of the real thing, that we could download and print out on decal or transfer paper, or SOMETHING. Please excuse the profanity. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13667	From: Bill Lane	Date: 6/25/2001
Subject: Frank Titman's Tracks Ahead

Hi All, I was just surfing Ebay (imagine that) and I came upon the Track's Ahead tape that has Frank Titans' layout on it. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1157631530 I would be bidding on it myself, but am saving to go to the convention. I do not know the seller or current bidders. Bill

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13668	From: Michael Greene	Date: 6/25/2001
Subject: Re: Frank Titman's Tracks Ahead

Caution: I wouldn't bid it up much past the $16 I just saw, since they are only 19.95 (Vol 7+8 - 2 tapes) on the MPTV.org web site. A GOOGLE search found the Tracks Ahead web site easily. Michael At 07:08 PM 6/25/2001 -0400, Bill Lane wrote: >Hi All, > >I was just surfing Ebay (imagine that) and I came upon the Track's Ahead >tape that has Frank Titans' layout on it. >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1157631530 I would be >bidding on it myself, but am saving to go to the convention. I do not know >the seller or current bidders. > >Bill > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13669	From: loubaldi@aol.com	Date: 6/25/2001
Subject: S-Gauge Reference Manual

Received my copy of Bob Hannon's A.C. Gilbert's Postwar American Flyer S-Gauge Reference Manual in the mail today. Many thanks to Bob for producing this wonderful reference manual. The Chinese say a picture is worth a thousand words. Well, this manual is chock full of illustrated photographs, data tables and parts list.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13670	From: Rick Evans	Date: 6/25/2001
Subject: Re: repro graphics

Ok Tom,....the nurse is on the way!!! Just a few months ago, I bought some repro decals for some of my Silver Bullet coaches,...and yeah, they look fine and will do the trick,..however, they ARE different from the originals!! I'm still trying to find a decent repro of Moe & Joe that have faces (or even a face period!!) like the originals!! Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13671	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/25/2001
Subject: S-Gauge Reference Manual--WOW!!

I too just received mine. Beautifoil! Bob's done a great job with this manual. Will put it to good use almost immediately. The story of the BOMs that Joe A. has is fascinating, I will encourage all to post him to encourage the publication of them, if only as a CD! If you haven't ordered your copy yet, and you do much AF repair work, WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?? Get'em while they've got 'em! Thanks much Bob, you've done a great service publishing this book. S'incerely, David Dewey

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13672	From: Al Paolozzi	Date: 6/25/2001
Subject: Re: S-Gauge Reference Manual--WOW!!

I am interested in ordering a copy of the S-gauge reference manual. Can anyone provide me with info on how to purchase a copy. Thanks, Al Paolozzi amflyral@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Cc: <hannon@...> Sent: Monday, June 25, 2001 8:16 PM Subject: [S-Trains] S-Gauge Reference Manual--WOW!! > I too just received mine. Beautifoil! Bob's done a great job with this > manual. Will put it to good use almost immediately. > The story of the BOMs that Joe A. has is fascinating, I will encourage all > to post him to encourage the publication of them, if only as a CD! > If you haven't ordered your copy yet, and you do much AF repair work, WHAT > ARE YOU WAITING FOR?? Get'em while they've got 'em! > Thanks much Bob, you've done a great service publishing this book. > S'incerely, > David Dewey > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13673	From: Wayne Broadhead	Date: 6/25/2001
Subject: Re: repro graphics

...it is certainly in the realm of computer capability to make good reproductions. I am in the printing business...and have seen some beautiful stuff. We do not make transfers where I work...but there must be someone on the list who does this professionally and would like to take a stab at it for a little part time money.... Wayne Broadhead jarcho@... wrote: > > I am @#$%^&* sick and @#$%^&* tired of trying to do serious Flyer repair > and restoration work with the @#$%^&* repro stickers decals and transfers > that are now available. They are just total @#$%^&* in terms of size, > color, font, materials, artwork, and every @#$%^&* thing else. It's been > driving me @#$%^&* nuts for years. > > Can't we do something? Maybe an online repository of digital images of the > real thing, that we could download and print out on decal or transfer > paper, or SOMETHING. > > Please excuse the profanity. > > Tom Jarcho > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13674	From: Wayne Broadhead	Date: 6/25/2001
Subject: Re: S-Gauge Reference Manual--WOW!!

...what book? Please give the name, author, and where they can be purchased. Thanks, Wayne David Dewey wrote: > > I too just received mine. Beautifoil! Bob's done a great job with this > manual. Will put it to good use almost immediately. > The story of the BOMs that Joe A. has is fascinating, I will encourage all > to post him to encourage the publication of them, if only as a CD! > If you haven't ordered your copy yet, and you do much AF repair work, WHAT > ARE YOU WAITING FOR?? Get'em while they've got 'em! > Thanks much Bob, you've done a great service publishing this book. > S'incerely, > David Dewey > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13675	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/26/2001
Subject: Re: repro graphics

Tom, You should try fitting repro Model A or T parts to cars! Most of the flyer stuff is so much closer to factory than the car parts are! Some of the repros are sooo close, it is frustrating that they didn't go the extra penny to do it right! Others are so far off, I wonder why they bothered! I believe that Doug P. sells rubber stamps to letter tenders, etc. so you can replicate the stamped printing of the ACG factory. I've not tried them yet, myself. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13676	From: Scott Holm	Date: 6/26/2001
Subject: Re: Frank Titman's Tracks Ahead

You can also get it with online ordering at Pentrex: http://store.yahoo.com/pentrex/ta07.html --- Michael Greene <mgreene@...> wrote: > Caution: I wouldn't bid it up much past the $16 I just saw, since > they are > only 19.95 (Vol 7+8 - 2 tapes) on the MPTV.org web site. A GOOGLE > search > found the Tracks Ahead web site easily. > > Michael > > At 07:08 PM 6/25/2001 -0400, Bill Lane wrote: > >Hi All, > > > >I was just surfing Ebay (imagine that) and I came upon the Track's > Ahead > >tape that has Frank Titans' layout on it. > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1157631530 I > would be > >bidding on it myself, but am saving to go to the convention. I do > not know > >the seller or current bidders. > > > >Bill > > > > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13677	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 6/26/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1057

Repo Graphics Tom I make all of my own stickers on the computer, using good quality products, the only draw back is that you have to bowwow an original from some one, after that you can make as many as you meed,and have some on file. Jerry 77-11644 ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13678	From: sigma@ecn.ab.ca	Date: 6/26/2001
Subject: Flyer Pacific update

Chuck F. -- Having re-analyzed all the info received from yourself and others I have now narrowed my search to the following: C&NW Pacifics of Class E2 with boiler pressure 250 and 74" drivers built by A1co during the period 1923-26 to orders numbered in the series 318 to 337 and carrying serial numbers in the range 64550 to 66763. Wish me luck. Joe Pereira email: sigma@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13679	From: Hannon	Date: 6/26/2001
Subject: S-Gauge Reference Manual: Permanent Link

Information on the S-Gauge reference manual can be found at the following (PERMANENT) location: http://www.trainrefs.com This will be the permanent website for Ordering, Support and Updates. When the other book(s) are done, info on them will be posted there as well (under their own heading, of course). The manual has also been listed on E-Bay under American Flyer. About that free "book rate" shipping: The manuals came in Friday. The shipping boxes did not! So, I shipped them out Priority Mail on Saturday. That's how they got to you so quickly. The "real" boxes are scheduled to arrive Friday at the latest. Bob Hannon

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13680	From: Ted Walton	Date: 6/26/2001
Subject: S-Gauge Reference Manual--WOW!!

I have the "Complete Service Manual for Am. Flyer Trains" by K-Line,1983. How does this new manual compare as to compliment, completeness or surpass this K-Line manual. The K-Line manual appears to be only instruction sheets from ACG manuals with a fair amount missing even though it contains 402 pages. Would it be an advantage to have both, or more then that. Thanks. Ted Walton

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13681	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 6/26/2001
Subject: S-Gauge Reference Manual--WOW!!

While you are comparing manuals there is also the 1991 Greenberg's American Flyer Factory Manual by Smith & Smith. This has 710 pages of Gilbert reprints. I understand the "New" manual is a technical study of motors and parts not Gilbert reprints. Glenn Ted Walton wrote: I have the "Complete Service Manual for Am. Flyer Trains" by K-Line,1983. How does this new manual compare as to compliment, completeness or surpass this K-Line manual. The K-Line manual appears to be only instruction sheets from ACG manuals with a fair amount missing even though it contains 402 pages. Would it be an advantage to have both, or more then that. Thanks. Ted Walton

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13682	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/26/2001
Subject: S-Gauge Reference Manual--what it's about

The new manual is not a reprint of Gilbert stuff (except historical documents and the technical information from ACG documents); it is a rather complete, or nearly so, breakdown of the construction of ACG electrical components. If you do heavy-duty repairs of ACG, it is invaluable for checking your stuff with factory specs., or for rebuilding your stuff to factory specs. You also pick up other tid-bits reading the book, like the specifications for the material for steamer armature shafts/worm gears. HMMM!!! Now if someone with a screw machine or a CNC mill would take it on, we could have NEW armature shafts! Oh wait, still need core laminations, insulators and commutators. Speaking of which, the manual also lets you identify just what armature, or other parts you have in your loco, as things are often mixed and matched, if not by the factory, then by repair people. BTW, it also explains the differences between the DC and AC armatures, and they ARE different! See?? Neat stuff, at least for some of us! S' David D. PS full--sized color pics of all the parts in there too! WOW!!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13683	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 6/27/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1058

LOGS for loads on A.F. rail cars. I am trying to verify the correct loads for log cars and would appreciate any help, additions &/or corrections, and will post the findings in the Digest. pre war 3/16 scale #428 6 logs 1/2" dia. x 6 3/4 (green car) #428 6 logs 1/2" dia. x 6 13/16" (black car) post war 3/16 scale #605 6 logs 1/2" dia. x 6 1/4" round #628 6 logs 1/2" dia. x 7 1/2" #714 3 logs 13/16"dia. x 5 1/5" #928 6 logs 9/16" x 5/16" square x 7 1/4" Thanks Jerry 77-11644 ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13684	From: John Foley	Date: 6/27/2001
Subject: MR & S

Hi Folks Here's some news that was sent to me. Very interesting. The August MR has a lead editorial by Andy Sperandeo on S scale, and there is a 6-page feature story by Paul Dolkos on Mike Fyten's S scale (standard gauge) Kaw Valley RR in the Kansas City area. I think S has finally gotten somebody's attention. John Foley

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13685	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/27/2001
Subject: Clarification on my post RE the new manual-what's it about

Hi all, It just was pointed out; in my excitement to post about Bob's wonderful new book, I made mention of the info on steamer motor shafts. That tid-bit of info was in a "page filler" showing the BOM for a steamer motor--it doesn't give the machining info (like length, gear cut, etc. ) just the material specifications. AND it was only something "hidden" in the book's info that I found fascinating. The book is about electrical properties and construction, but for those reading in between the lines, it also tells a bit about the manufacturing, engineering and quality control process occurring at ACG. Whew! Hope I haven't clouded up the muddy picture more! Subliminal message follows: Watch the Railroad Watch: Buy the book, buy the book. . . .The future is in S. . . S'incerely, David Dewey

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13686	From: bulamatare@yahoo.com	Date: 6/27/2001
Subject: exploding mine carrier car

Maybe someone out there can help me.Does the 25062 exploding mine carrier car come with a control button that reads "mine carrier car"? Or, is it a common one button control? Thanks, Steve

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13687	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 6/27/2001
Subject: Re: MR & S

Thanks John, I wondered what I was going to read next after I finish my S Gaugian and wait for the June NASG Dispatch. Staying on the NPSG branchline of NASG track, Glenn John Foley wrote: Hi Folks Here's some news that was sent to me. Very interesting. The August MR has a lead editorial by Andy Sperandeo on S scale, and there is a 6-page feature story by Paul Dolkos on Mike Fyten's S scale (standard gauge) Kaw Valley RR in the Kansas City area. I think S has finally gotten somebody's attention. John Foley

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13688	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 6/27/2001
Subject: David Deweys desire from[S-Trains] Digest Number 1058

In a message dated 06/27/2001 4:43:39 AM Mountain Daylight Time, S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes: > You also pick up other tid-bits reading the book, like the > specifications for the material for steamer armature shafts/worm gears. > HMMM! Now if someone with a screw machine or a CNC mill would take it on, > we could have NEW armature shafts! > How many do you want???? Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13689	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 6/27/2001
Subject: Re: MR & S

You can also go to http://www.trains.com and look up "S".You will find the following. Scenery Unlimited offers three woodside refrigerator cars in S gauge. These S gauge refrigerator cars are Wilson & Co., Zion Fig Bars, and Berghoff Beer. Scenery Unlimited, 7236 W. Madison St., Forest Park, IL 60130, offers three woodside refrigerator cars by S-Helper Service. Price: $39.95 each plus $6.75 shipping. Illinois residents add 7.75 percent sales tax. You can order direct from Scenery Unlimited at 708-366-7763. 02/19/2001 Copyright ©2001 Kalmbach Publishing Co. All rights reserved.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13690	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 6/27/2001
Subject: Re: S-Gauge Reference Manual--what it's about

All, Fred Jester HAS newly manufactured A/F large motors and fields. Saw them at Gilbertsville, PA on June 10. Fred's # is 610-494-4578, fax 610-494-7769. Tell him I sent you. Jim Lyle [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13691	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 6/27/2001
Subject: Re: exploding mine carrier car

In a message dated 6/27/01 9:55:33 PM, bulamatare@... writes: << Did the 25062 exploding mine carrier car come with a control button that reads "Mine Carrier Car"? >> Yes. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13692	From: Bill Lane	Date: 6/27/2001
Subject: Wabash decals

Hi all, Does anyone have an "extraneous" set of these Wabash decals? http://users.snip.net/~billlane/decal.jpg If not, I need a good side photo of alternative schemes that have available decals for this hopper. http://users.snip.net/~billlane/hopper.jpg What about a good side shot of that hopper in Wabash transition era? Any help would be most appreciated. Thanks Bill

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13693	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 6/28/2001
Subject: Jester's Large motors and fields

Are these for three digit engines like the 326 and 336, or for the 5 digit models like 21130, 21115, etc? In other words, do they have flat commutators, or barrel shaped ones? Or does he have them for both? How much does he charge and what all comes with it? Thanks. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13694	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/28/2001
Subject: TTOS 2002 Flyer boxcar

Hi all, Just posted on Toytrains is the URL to view the preliminary art work for the TTOS 2002 Flyer car. Looks like it will be a nice one. Check it out: http://www.ttos.org/boxcars.htm S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13695	From: John Foley	Date: 6/28/2001
Subject: New S Manufacturer

Hi Folks Here is a new S manufacturer. Tunnel portals, bridge piers and walls Check it out at www.pre-size.com John Foley [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13696	From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi	Date: 6/28/2001
Subject: Bridges

Hi all: Has anyone seen any bridge kits that are available in S? I know about the $799 rtr brass? one, and although it is quite nice, is somewhat low on the list because of its high cost. Any wood ones out there? Anyone modified O or HO scale bridges for S? Or are you just scratch-building same? Tx Rance

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13697	From: John Foley	Date: 6/28/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Bridges

Hi Rance Try this website http://www.stainlessunlimited.com/ John At 08:09 PM 6/28/01 +0200, Rance and Bente Velapoldi wrote: >Hi all: >Has anyone seen any bridge kits that are available in S? I know about >the $799 rtr brass? one, and although it is quite nice, is somewhat low >on the list because of its high cost. Any wood ones out there? Anyone >modified O or HO scale bridges for S? Or are you just scratch-building >same? >Tx >Rance > > >The topic is S Scale please keep your messages 'on-topic'. >To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13698	From: Hannon	Date: 6/28/2001
Subject: S-Gauge Reference Manual: Questions

I've been getting a lot of questions (47 queries so far from from individuals with e-mail addresses I've seen on the S-Trains list and the toytrains list) about the manual. Here's an edited cut and paste from those e-mails. I'm putting these in here because I see more questions coming up in this post. Question 1: What is it? It's an ELECTRICAL reference manual. Every armature, field and bobbin/relay (except transformers) manufactured by A.C. Gilbert is in there (with a few omissions which will be available on the web shortly). For the most part, it's a quick-reference trouble shooting manual, with a lot of backup for the data (new part numbers, basis for the expected multimeter/ ohmmeter readings, etc.). Question 2: Where did the data come from? The part numbers/mechanical details came from Bills of Materials which Mr. Vincent Amato made available for the book. There's a writeup in the book on this source of the information. The electrical specs were accumulated over 10-years of rewinding these components. They have been checked and rechecked (some several times, others hundreds of times), and tested. This wasn't a paper exercise. Question 3: How does it relate to Greenberg/K-Line Manuals? You can use your Greenberg/K-Line manuals to find the part number you're trying to trouble-shoot, and then look it up in this manual. Where there were several variations of a part, they've been put in the manual as well. If you don't have either of these references, you can search through the manual until you find a match with one of the color pictures and the dimensions that are marked on the picture. Question 4: How is it different from Greenberg/K-Line Manuals? A. It deals ONLY with electrical components. The Sample and Details pages on the website will give you an idea of the content of the manual (http://www.trainrefs.com). B. The components are listed in color, with several indices to help you find them (You don't have to "know" A.C. Gilbert S-Gauge to do your troubleshooting). C. The expected/required resistance readings are given for each component. (Part of Chapter 1 is dedicated to other factors which could affect component performance and which are not obvious from resistance readings alone). D. The manual comes with free e-mail support if you have trouble getting started or need a clarification for something in the manual. E. The manual comes with free web-based updates for the few known omitted components, any confirmed variations which may be discovered in the future, any errors or inaccuracies which may be uncovered. Right now, access will be free. At some point, the website will be limited to those who have purchased and registered their copies (by name and manual serial number). So ... F. No. You won't have to buy another copy to get the updates/changes, or any other information which is posted there. G. You can actually use it to rebuild a component. Again, thanks to those who participated in the poll and helped define the scope of this manual. And special thanks to those who have received their copies and took the time to express their thanks and encouragement for the project. Bob Hannon

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13699	From: Arden Goehring	Date: 6/28/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] New S Manufacturer

They don't sell direct. Who handles it? Arden Hi Folks Here is a new S manufacturer. Tunnel portals, bridge piers and walls Check it out at www.pre-size.com John Foley

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13700	From: John Foley	Date: 6/28/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] New S Manufacturer

Hi Arden Great question. I forgot to post where the sell the items. Go to this address. http://www.normstrainworld.net/ They may be coming to the NASG convention next month John At 01:06 PM 6/28/01 -0700, Arden Goehring wrote: >They don't sell direct. Who handles it? Arden > >Hi Folks > Here is a new S manufacturer. Tunnel portals, bridge piers and >walls >Check it out at www.pre-size.com >John Foley

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13701	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 6/28/2001
Subject: pikemaster uncoupler

I have a pikemaster manual uncoupler/terminal track in most of a box that I got with a junk parts lot I bought.First person to contact off list ,willing to reimburse shipping can have it.Keith _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13702	From: Michael Greene	Date: 6/28/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Bridges

If you're willing to do some work you might check out the bridge jigs from Black Bear Construction Company. At the last NMRA National Convention I picked up the following jigs in the company store: #259 - Arch Bridge Jig #254 - Trestle Jig #267 - Deck Bridge Jig #263 - Truss Bridge Jig Each of these come with a detailed instruction guide for building the bridge, including sizes of wood to use. All in S scale of course. Alas I have not yet had time to build one yet. But they look to make bridge construction very easy. Black Bear Construction Co. PO Box 26911 Austin, TX 78755-0911 512-467-8400 They also have a good web site at http://www.blackbearcc.com/ Regards Michael At 08:09 PM 6/28/2001 +0200, Rance and Bente Velapoldi wrote: >Hi all: >Has anyone seen any bridge kits that are available in S? I know about >the $799 rtr brass? one, and although it is quite nice, is somewhat low >on the list because of its high cost. Any wood ones out there? Anyone >modified O or HO scale bridges for S? Or are you just scratch-building >same? >Tx >Rance

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13703	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 6/28/2001
Subject: Check out S-n'-S Trains

Hi everyone, We have developed a very simple and modest web site for our Can Motor and S-Video products. I hope the attached link works. We're train guys, not computer guys....Steve <A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/boss31/myhomepage/business.html">Click here: S-n'-S Trains</A> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13704	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 6/29/2001
Subject: Re: Check out S-n'-S Trains

Also check out the picture of the Non-North American locomotive on the instructions. Thorin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13705	From: Euell Johnson	Date: 6/29/2001
Subject: Re: S-Gauge Reference Manual: Questions

This is a wonderful reference. I know you put a lot of yourself into it and it really shows. For your next project, what about a reference containng sources of various components, kits and R-T-R loco's, deisels, freight and passenger rolling stock. If I needed a Dash 9-44, where would I find it? or a Hudson or Pacific? Who makes decals? Or detailed parts such as horns, bells, feedwater heaters? One reference should would be nice!! EJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hannon" <hannon@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>; <toytrains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 2:28 PM Subject: [S-Trains] S-Gauge Reference Manual: Questions > I've been getting a lot of questions (47 queries so far from > from individuals with e-mail addresses I've seen on the > S-Trains list and the toytrains list) about the manual. Here's > an edited cut and paste from those e-mails. I'm putting > these in here because I see more questions coming up in this > post. > > Question 1: What is it? > > It's an ELECTRICAL reference manual. Every armature, > field and bobbin/relay (except transformers) manufactured > by A.C. Gilbert is in there (with a few omissions which > will be available on the web shortly). For the most part, > it's a quick-reference trouble shooting manual, with a lot > of backup for the data (new part numbers, basis for the > expected multimeter/ ohmmeter readings, etc.). > > Question 2: Where did the data come from? > > The part numbers/mechanical details came from Bills > of Materials which Mr. Vincent Amato made available > for the book. There's a writeup in the book on this > source of the information. > > The electrical specs were accumulated over 10-years > of rewinding these components. They have been > checked and rechecked (some several times, others > hundreds of times), and tested. This wasn't a paper > exercise. > > Question 3: How does it relate to Greenberg/K-Line Manuals? > > You can use your Greenberg/K-Line manuals to find the > part number you're trying to trouble-shoot, and then look > it up in this manual. Where there were several variations > of a part, they've been put in the manual as well. > > If you don't have either of these references, you can > search through the manual until you find a match with > one of the color pictures and the dimensions that are > marked on the picture. > > Question 4: How is it different from Greenberg/K-Line Manuals? > > A. It deals ONLY with electrical components. The Sample > and Details pages on the website will give you an > idea of the content of the manual (http://www.trainrefs.com). > > B. The components are listed in color, with several indices > to help you find them (You don't have to "know" A.C. > Gilbert S-Gauge to do your troubleshooting). > > C. The expected/required resistance readings are given for > each component. (Part of Chapter 1 is dedicated > to other factors which could affect component > performance and which are not obvious from resistance > readings alone). > > D. The manual comes with free e-mail support if you have trouble > getting started or need a clarification for something in > the manual. > > E. The manual comes with free web-based updates for the few > known omitted components, any confirmed variations > which may be discovered in the future, any errors or > inaccuracies which may be uncovered. Right now, > access will be free. At some point, the website will > be limited to those who have purchased and registered > their copies (by name and manual serial number). So ... > > F. No. You won't have to buy another copy to get the > updates/changes, or any other information which is > posted there. > > G. You can actually use it to rebuild a component. > > Again, thanks to those who participated in the poll and > helped define the scope of this manual. And special > thanks to those who have received their copies and > took the time to express their thanks and encouragement > for the project. > > Bob Hannon > > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13706	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 6/29/2001
Subject: Missing Trains Return

You may remember that in April I posted information about a B&O Pacific and 4 passenger cars that American Models shipped to me, but I never received them. Ron replaced them with another set, which is beautiful. We thought the story ended there. But last Wednesday night I attended a "Guest Bartender Night" fund raiser for the woman who lives in my old house. She is battling breast cancer, hence the fund raiser. Sue told me that she received a box for me but just hasn't been able to get it to me. Well, of course, it's the trains American Models shipped in April! I talked to Ron and will be sending the first set of trains back to him on Monday. He was pretty surprised and said that someone called today asking for a set. I'm glad I connected with the first shipment so this other S fan can have some fun with this great set. Peter Ervin Cumberland, MD

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13707	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 6/29/2001
Subject: Pacific Rail Shops cars

I've had 2 PRS 50 boxcars since they first came out. bought 'em to support a new S manufacturer. Gorgeous cars, but they would never stay on the track despite weighting and other remedies. Sprung trucks and smaller flanges just don't seem to work for me. We've discussed it several times here. Well, I'm here to tell you I got mediaeval on their bottoms with my new dremel last night! Cut away everything that would interfere with (snag) a Flyer KC truck, filed the result flat, drilled out the truck holes to 7/64" diameter and attached repro Flyer KC trucks with self tapping screws, with thin washers between trucks and body. Then I found it necessary to drill new screw holes and move each truck toward the center of the car 5/16". Next I moved on to my PRS ACF airslide hopper kit. Another gorgeous car that I had never bothered to assemble since I knew It would stay on the rails. Followed the same mediaeval formula, had to cut away a lot of the outlets. I don't know about you, but I don't spend a lot of time looking at the bottoms of my freight cars. So it wasn't too traumatic. Moved the trucks in on this car also. Now these cars will finally stay on my track! So, I'm offering 3 pairs of Ace freight car trucks with KC in exchange for Flyer KC trucks. I know some of you have had good luck with sprung trucks. One pair is unassembled and 2 are assembled. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13708	From: John Foley	Date: 6/29/2001
Subject: (no subject)

Hi Folks Pre-Size the company that are doing the tunnel portals reserved a table for our NASG convention. Go to there website http://www.normstrainworld.net/ and see what they will have for sale John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13709	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 6/29/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, July 1, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13710	From: mlmarmer	Date: 6/29/2001
Subject: Re: Missing Trains Return

Hi Peter, Glad to hear about the trains, that they did get shipped to somewhere and that you are honest to return them to American Models. It was also great that they shipped out another set to you when the problem occurred. I guess we can renew our faith and trust in the US Post Office. But Cumberland, Maryland, where you are from, is also famous as you know, for the end of the C & O Canal which broke ground on July 4, 1828, the same day as the B & O RR. It closed in 1924 after losing the battle to floods from the Potomac river. Hard to image, that the canal was modern transportation back in the 1820's before the RR. The C & O canal has alot of history with it, as well as other canals in the country, and lives today as a 184.5 mile long national park with the tow path in complete use from Washington, DC to Cumberland with many great arched aqueducts. The canal is great for biking and walking while seeing lots of wildlife today. Paw Paw tunnel on the canal is a wonderful piece of 19th century architecture that took 20 years to blast 3/4th of a mile through a mountain, completely lined with bricks! The B&O fought in US court to block the path of the canal along the Potomoc river and lost. The RR and canal ran side by side at many places. Eventually, the RR brought the canal in the 1880's because the canal was bankrupt and then the government got the canal from the B&O when it went bankrupt itself in the early 20th century. Just wanted to let all know about another part of early American transportation history that live on today. Mike Marmer Germantown, Maryland

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13711	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 6/30/2001
Subject: Tom Potthast's S-Scale layout

Last week I was in Austin Texas (training at Dell Computers). John Oglesby was my host in Austin and among other adventures, brought me over to see Tom Potthast's S-Scale layout. I shot some pictures and they are now on the web at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/austin/austin.html Enjoy

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13712	From: John DeFelice	Date: 6/30/2001
Subject: Spray paints

Hi there Does anyone have a list of commercially available spray paint colors for Flyer accessories? I am currently working on an old, a very beat up Guilford station (baggage handler), that I had for years ,,,,,, And after having dinner last night in Guilford,Conn,,,,, I thought it would be a good time to try and "restore" it....... I thought I saw a list of spray paints available in an old issue of CTT,, but I can't find the article in the magizines I have........ The list may have been for Lionel colors,, I don't remember The light green color that Lionel used is pretty close, as I recall Thanks in advance..... John [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13713	From: TED R LARSON	Date: 6/30/2001
Subject: S-MOD

> Yes I have joined NASG and I am located about 25 mi. NW of Boston. I >am modeling the B&M and the MEC late 40s early 50s. I have no space yet >just a small test track but I'm working on it. > >Adam J. Palaza For Adam and any other newcomers to the list, S-MOD modules are a great way to get started. Build you small test track or switching layout to the S-MOD standards and you provide yourself with MUCH future flexibility in use of your handiwork. See the NASG website. Also see the April NASG Dispatch article on Tom Robinson's portable layout. The article does not state that the layout is built to S-MOD standards, but I'm quite sure that it is. Many S scale clubs use these standards, which permits people from all over the country to joing their modules together, similar to the N-TRAK standards. These can be built using scale or hi-rail track. The specifications define height from floor to top of rail, track centerline spacing, and electrical circuits. Ted Larson My computer's cup holder has a CUP WARMER! ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13714	From: Rick Evans	Date: 6/30/2001
Subject: we lost some members,....

We are slowly losing some members of S-Trains! We are down to 666!!! Hope we gain (or lose) a couple to get away from THAT number!!! Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13715	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 6/30/2001
Subject: spray paints

John: The paint you refer to is"Train Enamel" There are major problems with it. go to your yahoo "my groups"page, get into s-trains and search the archives for "Train enamel" There were eight messages posted on this topic between 5-19 and 5-22 of this year. Here's the contents of mine: I have had extremely poor results with at least four different colors of train enamel, both spray and jar. It takes many and/or thick coats to get depth of color, which obscures detail. The colors are not close matches to the originals -- the Royal Blue is expecially bad. It dries slowly and not well. And it is much glossier than Flyer finishes. My friends have had similar results with and opinions of it. It is not a good idea to use this stuff on American Flyer S gauge trains. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13716	From: Al Paolozzi	Date: 6/30/2001
Subject: Re: Tom Potthast's S-Scale layout

Paul, Thanks for sharing the layout. It looked real nice! What were the dimensions, approximately? Thanks AL amflyral@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Yorke" <yorke@...> To: <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>; <s-scale@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2001 5:04 AM Subject: [S-Trains] Tom Potthast's S-Scale layout > Last week I was in Austin Texas (training at Dell Computers). John > Oglesby was my host in Austin and among other adventures, brought me > over to see Tom Potthast's S-Scale layout. I shot some pictures and they > are now on the web at > http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/austin/austin.html > Enjoy > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13717	From: Bob	Date: 7/1/2001
Subject: Lionel / A.F. Sawmill ?

Dear Group, I was just wondering if anyone has heard when Lionel will be releasing their version of the American Flyer Sawmill ? I had orginally heard it was going to be released in June 2001. Has anyone heard differently ? Please e-mail me or post any and all answers.Thank you............Bob

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13718	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 7/1/2001
Subject: The Canal

Mike, Thanks for the comment about the missing trains as well as the C&O Canal. I live across the street from the Western Maryland Scenic Railroad. I can see the steam engine from my window and I hear its whistle anytime it blows. And the canal is at the same location. Sometimes I walk it in the evening or on weekeds. The cabin George Washington used when he came to Cumberland for the whiskey rebellion is between my house and the Western Maryland Scenic Railroad station. Sometimes I feel like I live in the middle of a museum! Peter Ervin Cumberland, MD At 08:07 AM 6/30/01 +0000, you wrote: > "mlmarmer" <mlmarmer@...>

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13719	From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton	Date: 7/1/2001
Subject: American Flyer Seminar at TCA Convention

Hello, everyone, Just wanted to report on the results of the "American Flyer Trains.....KEEP 'EM RUNNING" seminar held last Thursday at the TCA Convention in Chattanooga. Twenty-two people attended the seminar.....and we think this in itself is a miracle, since the TCA organization made no mention of our function either in the event catalog or in the registration packets. This detail probably just dropped through the cracks at TCA (despite all our efforts to make it happen.) Besides, they probably didn't know how to take this "wacko" group, that loves any train besides Zero scale!!! (Just kidding---kind of :-) ) It was heartwarming to the seminar hosts, that at least two Flyer fans changed their entire Thursday tours of Chattanooga attractions, so that they could attend this seminar. (They had found out about the seminar just the night before.) We had door prizes. LOTS of door prizes. Fourteen AF vendors, suppliers and enthusiasts donated multiple items ranging from $25 gift certificates, to the repro Checkerboard Water Tower! So everyone in attendance received at least one prize. Five display tables were loaded with AF and A. C. Gilbert books, manuals, videos. Nearly every periodical that has published Flyer related articles was represented, as was every AF dealer, supplier and repair person we could source. Each attendee took home about four pounds of bibliographies and indexes ( or is that indices?) of most AF articles published for the last twenty years, cross referenced by subject matter and title. Lists of dealers, repair manuals, and anything else you can think of that is AF related, were also passed out. All the above was supplied courtesy of Fred Faist of Atlanta. A lively discussion, lasting more than two hours, covered many aspects of American Flyer repair. We are sure that everyone left with new information on repair techniques. Near the session's end, the three TCA Division Presidents visited us to introduce the 2002 TCA Convention S gauge car, a heavyweight observation car from S Helper Service. We assume that everyone must have enjoyed themselves; no one left before 4PM closing time, except the dealers who still had to set up in the trading hall! All in all, we felt that this first effort went over well. We learned some lessons, and we would be happy to pass our experiences along to the American Flyer enthusiasts who might be interested in putting on a similar event at a future TCA Convention. (How about Chicago?) I would be happy to discuss details with anyone who would like to write (or call.) My home phone number is 770-479-6800. KEEP 'EM RUNNING!!!!! Steve Pendleton [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13720	From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton	Date: 7/1/2001
Subject: Article for NASG Dispatch

To Glenn Ritter: Glenn, would you please send me your e-mail address/mail address so that I can send you an article on the AF seminar at TCA? Thank you. Steve Pendleton [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13721	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 7/1/2001
Subject: Re: Lionel / A.F. Sawmill ?

Check out the Lionel web site www.lionel.com, go to CENTRAL STATION, click on RESOURCES, then select 2001 Shipping schedule. You will scroll down and see that the American Flyer Sawmill is scheduled to be shipped in JULY, and that the Seaboard Coaler and Gabe are slated for October. REgards Michael Bob wrote: > Dear Group, > I was just wondering if anyone has heard when Lionel will > be releasing their version of the American Flyer Sawmill ? I had > orginally heard it was going to be released in June 2001. Has anyone > heard differently ? Please e-mail me or post any and all > answers.Thank you............Bob > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13722	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 7/1/2001
Subject: SMOKE FLUID TESTING

Hello: A total system crash wiped out my entire memory. Who was it that ran a test of Smoke Fluid a couple of months ago? Will you please contact me as I need your address to send the payment to you for the postage on the test fluids you sent me. THanks Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13723	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 7/1/2001
Subject: Re: SHS F-3 DCC update

We have completed the testing of the F-3 DCC units this week (a tip of the hat to Mike Greene, Bill Clark and Chip Romig). We sent the purchase order to Soundtrax and they are now in production. We expect to see these in the next 45 days. Our Soundtrax EMD first generation diesel sound/decoder will use the next generation of software and has a programmable horn so that you can choose either Wabco, Nathan or Leslie. Other sounds include Engine exhaust (idle thru notch 8), dynamic brake, and bell It will have the current capacity to power both the A unit an the B unit via our MU cables (excess of 3 amps) I has a function for the Mars light, number boards and headlight as well as a backup light (12 volt, 100mA). the board size is 1.1"W x 3.25"L and are available as a separate item for $159.95. We have not tired this yet, but Steve at Soundtrax told us it would fit into our switches. Anyone that received one of our F-3s with the AC/DC Locomatic Sound system and would rather have the DCC system instead, we are offering a trade in program.. Please contact me off list. If anyone one would rather have DC no sound instead of the DCC or AC/DC Locomatic Sound system please contact me off list. We have extra F-3B units available. The price for DC no sound is $199.95, the price for DCC sound or with the AC/DC Locomatic Sound system is $299.95. Don -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 F-3s and Double Sheathed boxcars are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/emdf3s_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13724	From: Rick Evans	Date: 7/1/2001
Subject: down to 665 members now.....Whew!

Well,...at least we got rid of those dreaded "three 6's"!!!! Rick (I'll sleep better now!) Evans

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13725	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 7/1/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, July 1, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13726	From: dbaker221@home.com	Date: 7/1/2001
Subject: Removing 769-A bulb housing

Has anyone out there had to deal with a melted bulb housing on a 769- A Aircraft Beacon? The grey plastic bulb housing on mine melted at some point in the distant past. I'd like to replace the bulb housing but I'm not sure how to seaparate the housing from the top deck of the tower. The bulb housing appears to be attached to the top deck by what appear to be two tiny metal pins. It also seems that the housing may be glued to the top deck, though I'm not sure. (The top deck itself removes easily from the tower by gently bending the eight metal tabs.) Then there would be the issue of attaching the wires to the new bulb socket, or maybe that becomes easier once the bulb housing is removed and replaced...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13727	From: Wayne Zebron	Date: 7/1/2001
Subject: Tonka

Hi, I just returned from fishing vacation in Wisconsin. Caught a nice limit of panfish and several nice northern pike. I stopped in a "Shopko" and found more Tonka Power Trax Accessary sets on sale from $3.00 to $6.00. Each set containes 4 to 8 people, (kids, police, firemen, construction workers, dock workers) fence sections, signs and "loads". Also inculded were long and short trucks, fire trucks, and more. Tractors and cranes and conveyors and other neat stuff. The package says 1:72 scale but I measured the people and the measure about 5'6" to 5'9" on my scale. I placed several pieces on my layout and the fit in nice. If you have a "Shopko" near by check it out, I think you will like what you see and I don't think you can't beat the reduced price. Wayne

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13728	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 7/2/2001
Subject: Re: Removing 769-A bulb housing

I had the same problem. Ended up drilling the old housing out and installing a new one with epoxy. It was a little scary to start hacking on the plastic but it all worked out well and made an invisible repair. Once you drill thru from the top you can partially collapse the socket with a needlenose plier and it should pull out. You will have to cut new ends on the wire and resolder to the new socket. dbaker221@... wrote: > > Has anyone out there had to deal with a melted bulb housing on a 769- > A Aircraft Beacon? > > The grey plastic bulb housing on mine melted at some point in the > distant past. I'd like to replace the bulb housing but I'm not sure > how to seaparate the housing from the top deck of the tower. The > bulb housing appears to be attached to the top deck by what appear to > be two tiny metal pins. It also seems that the housing may be glued > to the top deck, though I'm not sure. (The top deck itself removes > easily from the tower by gently bending the eight metal tabs.) > > Then there would be the issue of attaching the wires to the new bulb > socket, or maybe that becomes easier once the bulb housing is removed > and replaced... > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13729	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 7/2/2001
Subject: S-Spree Flat Car

I was forced to stop my life in October in order to take care of my two young daughters. (My wife was finishing her dissertation.) Now that she has graduated, I am slowly resuming my life. I am so far behind on my mail and such that I just found my invitation to the Spring 2001 S-Spree: which happened several months ago. Are there any of the S-Spree flatcars with loads still available? Thorin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13730	From: softmoods@vcn.com	Date: 7/2/2001
Subject: July Train Show/Swap Meet

Hi All, Please pass the Notice below on to other E-Mail Lists: Sorry for the possible double posts. Sherman Hill Model Railroad Club will be hosting a Model Railroad Show / Swap meet and Afternoon of Railfanning, in Cheyenne, Wyoming. Details of show are below: Date: 14 July 2001 Saturday Time: 9:00am - 12:00am Railfanning: Follows Train Show / Swap Meet and Lunch or after lunch 1:30pm Tour the Former Union Pacific Depot and/or The Union Pacific Steam Shops . Limited Number to go ($ 5.00 Club Donation) (NOTE: First Come, First Serve on UP Steam Shop Tour) Location: 121 w 15th st - Downtown Cheyenne - Former Union Pacific Depot Admission: Adults . . . $ 3.50 Children . . $ 1.50 Families . . $ 7.00 Contact: Robert Sherwood 2837 Olive Dr Cheyenne, Wy. 82001-5736 Vendors: Contact For Booth / Table Information I'm looking forward to seeing and visiting with all of you in july. Sincerely, Robert Sherwood, President Sherman Hill Model Railroad Club, Cheyenne, Wyoming Robert Sherwood, Cheyenne, Wyoming

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13731	From: Mark Preman	Date: 7/2/2001
Subject: American Flyer Trains For Sale

Boy, June was a crazy month. Got rid of a bunch of trains and my gall bladder too! Mark The new list is posted at: http://www.americanflyertrains.com ===== Mark B. Preman AmericanFlyerTrains.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13732	From: John DeFelice	Date: 7/2/2001
Subject: sray paints

Thanks to all for the info on spray paint....the "train enamel" that was dicussed on the list last month wasn't what I was referring to... I read the messages & it seems it didn't work very well I have been experimenting with commercial paint which is sold in spray cans ( Krylon, Testors, Rustoleum, etc)...... I am still trying to locate the CTT article that listed the colors & manufactuers,, I'm not sure how long ago it was printed, & it was probably for Lionel....... Thanks again for your info John [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13733	From: John Foley	Date: 7/2/2001
Subject: Steamtown Convention News

Hi Folks WE will have an added attraction at Steamtown during our NASG convention. The Circus will be there in the form of different gauges of circus trains including the real ones. Antique wagons, equipment and much more. So bring those cameras and plenty of film. John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13734	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 7/2/2001
Subject: Updated - Tom Potthast's S-Scale layout

Tom sent me a diagram, so I added it and his recent comments to the page. http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/austin/austin.html The layout link is at the top and the comments are midway down the page. Thanks for all the positive comments on this layout and webpage. I bet there are many more out there just waiting to be shared. Anybody in Florida want to share?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13735	From: lancemccold@chartertn.net	Date: 7/2/2001
Subject: Flyer Aricraft Beacon

A friend who collects Lionel purchased some stuff from an estate sale. Included was a tower that seems to be from the aircraft beacon. Because hit was not Lionel and he knew I dis A.F., he gave it to me. Cool! The base is black plastic painted dark green. It has a metal AC Gilbert label. The base has a place for a small building, but no building. The building place has holes for three (not 4) tabs. First and second questions: Does this call for a plastic or metal building? Who has reproduction buildings? The top is green plastic. Naturally, the beacon is missing. Somebody had installed a red bulb. Third question: Who sells reproduction beacons and the bulbs with the depressed center? Thanks in advance for the information. Lance

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13736	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 7/2/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer Aricraft Beacon

Lance: It sounds like it might be a 769A. The building is metal. The Beacon's are available too. Check with Portlines Hobby Supply. Doug will fix you up with all the parts and bulbs you need. You can order on line. regards Michael lancemccold@... wrote: > A friend who collects Lionel purchased some stuff from an estate > sale. Included was a tower that seems to be from the aircraft beacon. > Because hit was not Lionel and he knew I dis A.F., he gave it to me. > Cool! > > The base is black plastic painted dark green. It has a metal AC > Gilbert label. The base has a place for a small building, but no > building. The building place has holes for three (not 4) tabs. First > and second questions: Does this call for a plastic or metal building? > Who has reproduction buildings? > > The top is green plastic. Naturally, the beacon is missing. Somebody > had installed a red bulb. Third question: Who sells reproduction > beacons and the bulbs with the depressed center? > > Thanks in advance for the information. > > Lance > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13737	From: Scott Holm	Date: 7/3/2001
Subject: off-scale Lionel Flyer

I've noticed that a lot of the Lionel produced American Flyer is not S scale; The horse car, the Triple Crown intermodal set, the flat car with the generator, and the AF Semi-trailer rig are all O size. And the tanks on the flat cars are much smaller than S. Anybody seen other Flyonel that ain't right? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13738	From: ronnat@cros.net	Date: 7/3/2001
Subject: off scale lionel flyer

now that you mention it have not seen any flynel that is right & don/t really expect to any time soon !!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13739	From: lancemccold@chartertn.net	Date: 7/3/2001
Subject: Thanks for Aircraft Beacon Advice

Thanks to all for the advice on completing my AF aircraft beacon. This is a great group! Lance

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13740	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 7/3/2001
Subject: Can Motors for Flyer

Just wanted to tell everyone that may attend the NASG convention in Steamtown later this month that We have sent Doug Peck a 322 that has been converted to the Can Motor and also has an AC/DC switch that allows you to run on any type of layout power. He will have it on display and running on different layouts (if they want him to) so stop by and have a peek. It's a real healthy way to fix up a sick old steamer... Regards to all...and now I leave for a weeks trout fishing in Idaho's Sawtooth Mts. Darn the luck anyhow.... Steve & Sam [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13741	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 7/3/2001
Subject: SMOKE FLUID #4

To all of you that tried my first tries at AF smoke fluid...I belive I have come up with the right formula....I have sold it on E-Bay with about 50 sales and all have been pos. as far as it being as close to the Org. I have address's of all that had to smell the first trys....So I am going to send a 2oz bottle (no cost) to all that helped me....I should have it in the mail by Monday.....Anyone not wanting the #4 result Please E-mail me and none will be sent....Thank You....... Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13742	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/3/2001
Subject: Re: off-scale Lionel Flyer

Scott, I don't think the new trucks "look right" too tall or something. The horse car and the TTUX cars were 0-27 cars retrofitted w/ flyer trucks. What's crazy is they have a double door boxcar in the 0-27 line that is nearly dead-nuts on for S. Gee. . . a "Brand New" S gauge car--without any tooling costs! (well, OK, some floor stampings and lettering masks) The new caboose doesn't look right either, I think it's the clunky mold making, compared to ACG's work--and those lousy endrails. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13743	From: Victor Bereskin	Date: 7/3/2001
Subject: Spray paint colors

The chart on spray paints is on page 55 of the March 2001 CTT. And yes, it was for Lionel. Vic Bereskin ______________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 16:43:47 -0400 > From: "John DeFelice" <jdefelice@...> > Subject: sray paints > > Thanks to all for the info on spray paint....the "train enamel" that was dicussed on the list last month wasn't what I was referring to... I read the messages & it seems it didn't work very well > I have been experimenting with commercial paint which is sold in spray cans ( Krylon, Testors, Rustoleum, etc)...... > I am still trying to locate the CTT article that listed the colors & manufactuers,, I'm not sure how long ago it was printed, & it was probably for Lionel....... > Thanks again for your info > John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13745	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 7/3/2001
Subject: Re: Off scale Lionel Flyer

David D, wrote: > I don't think the new trucks "look right" too tall or something. The newer (post 1990) freight trucks use what appear to be full O scale side frames. They have kept me from buying a copy of the new caboose. If I used the most accurate word I could use to describe their appearance, I'd get in trouble with the group host! >The horse car and the TTUX cars were 0-27 cars retrofitted w/ flyer >trucks. Correct, as is the drop-center flat. I converted a 3520 searchlight car which uses the altered diecast metal version of of the d-c flat a- waaayyy back in 1989. Even though it's over 10 scale feet wide (a bit much for a flatcar), it still looks so much better on Gilbert S gauge trucks than on its original trucks that it ain't funny. What's interesting (and frustrating) about the TTUX spine cars is that they have been sized so that they're too small to carry O scale trailers, and too large to carry S scale trailers. Only Lionel's odd size trailers will fit on them. Smart. REAL smart. >What's crazy is they have a double door boxcar in the 0-27 line that >is nearly dead-nuts on for S. Ayup! Got about 1/2 dozen of those. The only things that give them away as being non-S are the oversize roofwalks and grab-irons. Started converting them back in the mid '80s when I wanted some boxcar variety. Now the need to do such has been eliminated by the offerings from AM, SHS, etc. Still, I like to bring at least one of these O-27 boxcars along whenever we run publicly. It's fun to point out to people how Lionel always knew S scale is the better size for miniature trains. >Gee. . . a "Brand New" S gauge car--without any tooling costs! Strangely enough, it was probably the prompting of desparate S gaugers that led Lionel to resort to these cross-breeds. 'Course, by the time Lionel actually began making them (after some 15 years of hinting by S gaugers), they were largely obsolete for the reason stated above. >The new caboose doesn't look right either, I think it's the clunky >mold making, compared to ACG's work--and those lousy endrails. It's probably also the clunky Flyonel trucks. It would look significantly better on Gilbert trucks, I think. Certainly on scale trucks. Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13746	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 7/4/2001
Subject: Re: Off scale Lionel Flyer

There was a survey at train shows a few years back asking what Gilbert owners thought of some "L" Flyer new stuff. Most thought it was not to Gilbert "S" scale and it production seemed to end. Are there new offerings? Actually I am starting to buy Des Plaines and S Helper Reading RR offerings and the detail overshadows Gilbert. At the NASG convention I will be running both on our North Penn modules. If you want to bring some "L" stuff by we can photo it for the Dispatch. Staying on the NPSG branchline of NASG track, Glenn eighthmile@... wrote: David D, wrote: > I don't think the new trucks "look right" too tall or something. The newer (post 1990) freight trucks use what appear to be full O scale side frames. They have kept me from buying a copy of the new caboose. If I used the most accurate word I could use to describe their appearance, I'd get in trouble with the group host! Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13747	From: rgajnak@earthlink.net	Date: 7/4/2001
Subject: Re: Off scale Lionel Flyer

Chuck F wrote: >>The new caboose doesn't look right either, I think it's the clunky >>mold making, compared to ACG's work--and those lousy endrails. >It's probably also the clunky Flyonel trucks. It would look >significantly better on Gilbert trucks, I think. Certainly on scale >trucks. The new caboose would also look clunky on scale trucks. It is after all, a clone of a mediocre 0-27 caboose. Lionel would have been much better off cloning their O scale wood or steel caboose. They would have gotten a much better looking car that would probably have interested even us scalers. Be seeing you... Rich G

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13748	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 7/4/2001
Subject: off scale Lionel Flyer

Yes, that caboose is rather strange looking, as if a huge toad had sat on a Lionel caboose and squished it down to S size. I actually cut down a Lionel O caboose. As I recall, I cut a strip out of the center of the car, and strips above and below the windows, and reshaped the ends to fit. It ended up a very sharp looking car. Lionel's is very similar to it, except Lionel's looks clunky. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13749	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/4/2001
Subject: Those closed-point frogs

Finally, a prototype for the closed point frog switch. Found this while looking at some rr pics: http://community.webshots.com/photo/15834610/15834796dwtCphaIpj S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13750	From: Robert W. Jackson	Date: 7/4/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Those closed-point frogs

David Dewey wrote: > Finally, a prototype for the closed point frog switch. Found this while > looking at some rr pics: Yeah, but the sides of the frog are not soldered together on a sheet of brass!!!! (Interesting pic. Thanks.) Bob Jackson

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13751	From: busyboy	Date: 7/4/2001
Subject: Re: off-scale Lionel Flyer

Scott Holm said: >The Triple Crown intermodal set (is) O size. and Chuck F. said: >What's interesting (and frustrating) about the TTUX spine cars is >that they have been sized so that they're too small to carry O scale >trailers, and too large to carry S scale trailers. Only Lionel's odd >size trailers will fit on them. Dear Non-Scale S-Fans: I took the trailers off the spine cars and compared them side by side with other 1/64 th. road gear. I had tractor trailers for all those NASCAR racing teams and promotional soft drink rigs. I compared to ERTL and WinRoss and AHL and to the AM spine car trailers and the SHS TOFC trailers. I even used the Tonka rigs that Paul has been talking so much about. Amazingly, and very much to my surprise, they are pretty much right on. In fact, they coupled up to the fifth wheel on some of the truck tractors and looked fine. Remember, these are the more modern trailers, so they are longer than the transition era AM & SHS units, but they compare well with all my other 1:64 trucks. The problem with the TTUX cars is that they are structurally too large. Their center beams are enormous in "S". And, of course, Flyer trucks (the wheel bogies, not the road vehicles) have journal boxes in scale with their couplers, which, themselves are "G"scale! When you lie down with toys, you come up without scales. Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13752	From: Jon Marinello	Date: 7/4/2001
Subject: Selling American Models Heavyweight Passenger Cars

On EBay at: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll? ViewItem&item=1613868563&r=0&t=0&showTutorial=0&ed=994874795&indexURL= 0&rd=1 EBay item number 1613868563. This set is just awesome! A complete 5 car Union Pacific set. American Models 70 heavyweight high rail cars. Compatible with American Flyer cars and track. The cars included are: Coach, Observation, RPO, Combine and Baggage. These cars are in new condition. I bought them and never ran them. These are the early models and are very, very rare. These don't come along often. The boxes are perfect and all are present. It even comes with the original S-Helper Service shipping box.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13754	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 7/4/2001
Subject: Independence Day

I'd like to take this opportunity to wish everyone on this list, including the non-Americans, a happy Independence Day. This holiday is supposed to have a point to it. Unfortunately, the American public is asleep right now: there are important lessons about what we are about in this country that need to be taught or revisited, especially on a holiday like this. But the quality of the history teaching in this country is pathetic. I just recently finished David McCullough's excellent new biography of John Adams, which illuminated the events and personalities of July 1776. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13755	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 7/4/2001
Subject: Re: off-scale Lionel Flyer

Chris wrote: >Dear Non-Scale S-Fans: >I took the trailers off the spine cars and compared them side by >side with other 1/64 th. road gear. >Amazingly, and very much to my surprise, they are pretty much right >on. In fact, they coupled up to the fifth wheel on some of the >truck tractors and looked fine. Remember, these are the more modern >trailers, so they are longer than the transition era AM & SHS units, >but they compare well with all my other 1:64 trucks. The Lionel trailers measure out to just under 44 S scale feet, which is certainly well within the current maximum length (I think it's now 57') allowed for a single trailer on US highways. But their S scale width comes out to 9'4", somewhat over the 8'6" maximum. (I don't THINK the gummint has allowed trailers of 9' width yet!) That's to much for me, at least where a semi trailer is concerned. (You guys are all welcome to my share of Flyonel trailers. Gotta buy them yourselves, tho. :^D ) Undoubtedly, the extra width was added to "Lionelize" the trailers for use with the shrunk-from-zero-scale equipment that Lionel makes. >The problem with the TTUX cars is that they are structurally too >large. Their center beams are enormous in "S". Yup. Fortunately, I was able to find out that ERTL, Winross, and other 1/64 scale trailers would not fit on Lionel's spine chassis before buying a set. >And, of course, Flyer trucks (the wheel bogies, not the road >vehicles) have journal boxes in scale with their couplers, which, >themselves are "G"scale! Very true, but I can live with minor concessions like oversize couplers and flanges to guarantee smooth operation. I can even live with Gilbert AAR trucks for the sake of nostalgia, and shortened passenger cars for the sake of tight curves. But it's nice to be able to retain accurate S scale proportions whenever possible, and with truck trailers, it's VERY possible. Heck, it's easier to find S scale trailers than it is to find S gauge modern diesels, though that situation is about to improve... Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13756	From: mlmarmer	Date: 7/4/2001
Subject: Re: Independence Day

Tom, I think all holidays have been forgotten on what they are all about. It's all about sales at the mall and just another day off for most. The holidays are as follows: Martin L. King Day, Washington's Birthday, Easter, Memorial Day, 4th of July, Labor Day, Veterans Day, Thanksgiving, and Christmas. The main purpose of these days are forgotten. The Washington Post had some interesting things about kid's knowledge of American history, very sad, I should scan it for you. Very sad. Mike Marmer

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13757	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 7/4/2001
Subject: Re: Independence Day

Looks like you have forgotten some of the Holidays. NEW YEARS DAY Washington'S birthday LINCOLN'S BIRTHDAY DECORATION DAY 4th of July Labor day ARMISTICE DAY Thanksgiving day Christmas Martin Luther King is a new comer. Easter was never a holiday Memorial Day is a name change Veterans Day is also a name change The ones are the ones you forgot or missed the real name on. They even changed the day on a couple. Thank you Gentlemen Larry Jackman

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13758	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/4/2001
Subject: Re: Independence Day--my last thoughts on it for this list

This is a bit off-subject, but my concern is not the holidays we remember or forget, but the lack of knowledge about how one's country came to be (good and bad things) and how one's government functions (if only in theory!). These are the common threads that keep us as "one people" though we are many people. Although 3/4 of my grandparents were newcomers to this country, I was raised thinking of Washington, Adams, et al as my forefathers (turns out, I just found out, that the 1/4 side does go back to the colonial times, so they ARE my forefathers--my grandpappy 5 generations ago fought with Ethen Allen), as were all of my classmates taught so as we grew up. That's how we keep a nation together; reverance for the heritage of the country, and respect for the heritages of the various people that populate that country. Getting down from soapbox and back to playing with trains, they're usually safer! S' David Dewey Flemish-German-British-American (Gee, does that qualify me for any fed. programs?? ;-)) --aw heck, that's too long, just call me an American!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13759	From: Alex	Date: 7/5/2001
Subject: Re: Independence Day

Thanks for your note Tom: You might also enjoy reading "Flags Of Our Fathers," by James Bradley. It discusses the flag-raising on Iwo Jima in WW-II, but from a totally refreshing and terribly compelling point of view. Bradley's father, one of the flag-raising Marines, won a medal for his efforts, but never told his family about it. The medal was only discovered after his death many decades later. It's a wonderful, and sad, explanation of why that was so. Also, if you want to read an incredible history, check out Patrick Buchanan's "A Republic, Not An Empire." I typically do not agree with Buchanan, but he is a brilliant writer and fantastic historian. It's no wonder this book was on the NY Times Best sellers list. It's really worth reading--and very captivating. He reveals some amazing things that the average American probably doesn't know--and isn't being told or taught in schools--about our foreign policy. He starts with the American Revolution, then discusses WW-I and WW-II, Vietnam, and the end of the Cold War, and our recent big-time involvement in the Persian Gulf and Yugoslavia. As a follow-on to it, don't miss "Taliban," by Pakistani journalist Ahmed Rashid. He is one helluva captivating writer, and arguably the world's expert on Afghanistan. But, beware. You may get angry when you read how the US is involved in large-scale heroin trafficking in order to secure a place for Big Oil. Sorry to be off-topic, but it is the day after the 4th of July. -- Alex in Kennebunk, Maine -----Original Message----- From: jarcho@... [mailto:jarcho@...] Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 9:08 PM To: S-trains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [S-Trains] Independence Day I'd like to take this opportunity to wish everyone on this list, including the non-Americans, a happy Independence Day. This holiday is supposed to have a point to it. Unfortunately, the American public is asleep right now: there are important lessons about what we are about in this country that need to be taught or revisited, especially on a holiday like this. But the quality of the history teaching in this country is pathetic. I just recently finished David McCullough's excellent new biography of John Adams, which illuminated the events and personalities of July 1776. Tom Jarcho S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13760	From: Doug Peck	Date: 7/5/2001
Subject: Re: history, etc

Let's not paint an S-scale model with a broom! (that's the S tie-in to this posting!!!!!) Sure....there are problems.......but name a profession which has NONE! There are also a LOT of very good teachers and very good school systems which ARE doing their job. The press loves to pick up on news bits about those that aren't, so we all get tainted by that! Teaching today in the public schools is much different that when most of us went to school. Far more limitations, more restrictions, less parental (and administrative support), more kids with "baggage", more societal expectations. All of this is the main reason I'm glad I'm about to begin my final year in the classroom. I still LOVE my time in my science classroom, and I still LOVE working with my 8th graders every year, and I'm proud of what we all accomplish, working together......... It's everything else that has to be tolerated that destroys enthusiasm and energy. Doug Peck << But the quality of the history teaching in this country is pathetic.>> <<The Washington Post had some interesting things about kid's knowledge of American history, very sad, I should scan it for you. Very sad. >>

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13761	From: Euell Johnson	Date: 7/5/2001
Subject: Re: history, etc

Let's not paunt S-gauge with the same paint brush we use to paint the public school systems. It is frustrating to deal with the schools regarding a "problem" both as a parent and grandparent. I bet ALL of us have horror stories we could tell about teachers, school administrators and the school systems in general. Hopefully President Bush will begin addressing this problem. But as bad as the schools are, the US was the leader in mass education of its children. Since this is a forum for S-gauge, not the public schools, let's concentrate on addressing OUR problems. Let's make our interest and hobby better and more enjoyable. Not only do we need to grow our hobby, we MUST grow S-gauge, whether is it AF compatible or scale. It is a simple matter of economics and mathematics, the larger the base, the greater the ideas. This feeds the manufacturers, services providers, and retailers. EJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Peck" <portlines@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 10:39 AM Subject: RE: [S-Trains] history, etc > Let's not paint an S-scale model with a broom! (that's the S tie-in to this > posting!!!!!) > > Sure....there are problems.......but name a profession which has NONE! > There are also a LOT of very good teachers and very good school systems > which ARE doing their job. > The press loves to pick up on news bits about those that aren't, so we all > get tainted by that! > Teaching today in the public schools is much different that when most of us > went to school. Far more limitations, more restrictions, less parental (and > administrative support), more kids with "baggage", more societal > expectations. > All of this is the main reason I'm glad I'm about to begin my final year in > the classroom. I still LOVE my time in my science classroom, and I still > LOVE working with my 8th graders every year, and I'm proud of what we all > accomplish, working together......... It's everything else that has to be > tolerated that destroys enthusiasm and energy. > > Doug Peck > > << But the quality of the history > teaching in this country is pathetic.>> > <<The Washington Post had some interesting things about kid's knowledge of > American history, very sad, I should scan it for you. Very sad. > >> > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13762	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 7/5/2001
Subject: Re: history, etc

I do not wish you to take this as flaming as it is not meant to be. Kids are coming out of school to day not being able to count change back, tell time on a clock with hands. add or subtract. read and write. As a shift leader in a fast food chain I was very unhappy every time I got a new "child" on the floor. Only about one out of ten could do the job and those went on to better jobs. Of course they all knew about "condoms and sex". I do not know where the change came in the teaching system between when I and my siblings got out of school and today but in my opinion there was NO need to make any changes. Thank you Gentlemen Larry Jackman Euell Johnson wrote: > > Let's not paunt S-gauge with the same paint brush we use to paint the public > school systems. > > It is frustrating to deal with the schools regarding a "problem" both as a > parent and grandparent. I bet ALL of us have horror stories we could tell > about teachers, school administrators and the school systems in general. > Hopefully President Bush will begin addressing this problem. But as bad as > the schools are, the US was the leader in mass education of its children. > > Since this is a forum for S-gauge, not the public schools, let's concentrate > on addressing OUR problems. Let's make our interest and hobby better and > more enjoyable. Not only do we need to grow our hobby, we MUST grow S-gauge, > whether is it AF compatible or scale. It is a simple matter of economics and > mathematics, the larger the base, the greater the ideas. This feeds the > manufacturers, services providers, and retailers. > > EJ > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Doug Peck" <portlines@...> > To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 10:39 AM > Subject: RE: [S-Trains] history, etc > > > Let's not paint an S-scale model with a broom! (that's the S tie-in to > this > > posting!!!!!) > > > > Sure....there are problems.......but name a profession which has NONE! > > There are also a LOT of very good teachers and very good school systems > > which ARE doing their job. > > The press loves to pick up on news bits about those that aren't, so we all > > get tainted by that! > > Teaching today in the public schools is much different that when most of > us > > went to school. Far more limitations, more restrictions, less parental > (and > > administrative support), more kids with "baggage", more societal > > expectations. > > All of this is the main reason I'm glad I'm about to begin my final year > in > > the classroom. I still LOVE my time in my science classroom, and I still > > LOVE working with my 8th graders every year, and I'm proud of what we all > > accomplish, working together......... It's everything else that has to be > > tolerated that destroys enthusiasm and energy. > > > > Doug Peck > > > > << But the quality of the history > > teaching in this country is pathetic.>> > > <<The Washington Post had some interesting things about kid's knowledge of > > American history, very sad, I should scan it for you. Very sad. > > >> > > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13763	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 7/5/2001
Subject: NASG CONVENTION

Hi Wayne & All, Our modular layout uses AM Code 148 track with hand laid, closed frog switches. We operate on AC or DC power as needed. We designed and built it to accomodate both scale and highrail since we have all lines of "S" in our club so bring your favoite train or engine and we will run or display it for you. The North Penn S Gaugers, Glenn Wayne and Alice Beachy wrote: Hi Glenn, Jerry Poniatowski has asked me to bring one of my trains so he can see it run. He mentioned your club's layout. Would that be possible? Can you run Hi-Rail? Wayne Beachy [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13764	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 7/5/2001
Subject: 360 rebushing

About 2 yrs ago I bought a beater 360 and set out to use its guts to power a 473 for true double-heading with a 470. I converted it over to pulmor and pickup shoes by using LTI chassis and appropriate side frames. Then I discovered the fact there are different sized diesel armatures and matching fields. Therefore my "modernized" 360 in a 473 shell never could quite match the top speed and pulling power of its partner 470. Instead they were often at odds with each other. Hmmmmm. What to do next. Everything has a silver lining, eventually. Since one of my goals is to own, operate, maintain and repair one of each body-style and drive-train engine Gilbert ever manufactured (S-gauge that is), this little critter could be my "early" or "small" diesel motored specimen. But that meant converting it back to stock chassis (non-pulmor). And definitely doing something about its body - - completely intact with one hairline crack up near the horns, but at sometime painted (and I use that term loosely) silver with the likes of a Popsicle stick or small branch from a tree. Since the body was date stamped Oct 1950, I took the liberty to assume the engine was originally one of the all chrome SF 360's produced that year. I got the body rechromed, and added the appropriate decals/transfers. (Note: Testors decal set did not harm the chrome and the decals came out excellent.) OK, so now its looking pretty good, but how about getting it to run like new? While running it previously with an 18v rated 30B and the LTI chassis, I fried an armature winding wire which wouldn't unwind without further damage, so it turned into a rewinding project. I had rewound a steamer super motor, but never a diesel. While it was smaller with smaller wire, it wasn't that hard to do and turned out fine. I rebushed both chassis with replacement bushings (the originals on these old diesel chassis just pop out, new ones press in and stay in place with a little Loctite 271). I was looking forward to dreamy smooth worm-gear to axle-gear interfacing, but instead both motors tended to lock up. The axle gears and worm gears were pushed to close to each other while the engine ran on the track. If you picked it up and applied power it would appear to be fine, but just that little bit of difference created by bearing its own weight changed everything. One motor or the other would lock up completely or temporarily when changing direction at less that full throttle, or moderating the engine's speed. I inspected and reinspected everything like the armature bearings and they all seemed fine (same OD as new replacements, virtually no wear or play on the armature shafts.) The chassis castings were fine (no blemishes in the bearing cups, field bays, etc.). No axle or armature was bent. Gears showed no signs of damage or excessive wear. To make a long story short, in order for this rebushed 360 to run properly I had to shim both motors' armature bearings, fields, and grease caps by .003". Now it runs smoothly (even slowly, e.g. at the 30 mph mark on a 15v rated 15B), responds well to throttle and direction changes, runs fast, pulls fine (e.g. five 66X aluminum passenger cars with ease), and doesn't overheat. I was wondering if any of you have ever encountered this kind of problem/solution. It is just part of my "apprenticeship", so chalk it up to experience, or a fluke. I realize nothing (especially when it comes to AF engines) lasts forever, and therefore someday axle-bushing wear will negate the needed clearance my shims created, but it still amazes me that with carefully installed replacement bushings I had this problem at all. PS To balance things out I rewound the other motor's armature too. Both spin great. Forward and reverse speeds are nearly identical. Also, I kept the pick-up shoe side frames and added tiger-tails from their boxes up to the contact point atop each field yoke. Together they make a big difference as compared to relying on just the metal wheels for contact, but be sure to use the right length (slightly shorter) coil springs in the boxes, otherwise you trade off connectivity for traction. It looks great pulling polished 66X cars from the same time period. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13765	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 7/5/2001
Subject: Re: Selling American Models Heavyweight Passenger Cars

Jon Marinello wrote: > On EBay at: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll? > ViewItem&item=1613868563&r=0&t=0&showTutorial=0&ed=994874795&indexURL= > 0&rd=1 > > EBay item number 1613868563. > > This set is just awesome! A complete 5 car Union Pacific set. > American Models 70 heavyweight high rail cars. Compatible with > American Flyer cars and track. The cars included are: Coach, > Observation, RPO, Combine and Baggage. These cars are in new > condition. I bought them and never ran them. These are the early > models and are very, very rare. These don't come along often. The > boxes are perfect and all are present. It even comes with the > original S-Helper Service shipping box. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Is this the set that was at S Spree in Columbus? If so, there are at least three on the block, I think Billy Wade has a set also.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13766	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 7/5/2001
Subject: Fwd: RE: Proposed Toy Category Changes on eBay

>From: keith kuzma <keefer1_us@...> >To: keithkuzma@... >Subject: Fwd: RE: Proposed Toy Category Changes on eBay >Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 18:57:53 -0700 (PDT) > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13767	From: gino restivo	Date: 7/5/2001
Subject: re , 360 / 370 rebushing

evry now n then i get a 360 or 370 that has this problem , and replacement bushings don't fit it you must have clearrence for some play in the gears , i have made several drill fixture's for this over the years , the current fixture i made has adjustments for this .... bushings get drill in place with respect to the armature shaft/gears if anyone needs a chassis rebushed with bronze oil impregnated bushings steam or diesel e-mail me off list , gsr , see you at timomiun grnbrgs 7-14-01 i will be there sat only, with parts if anyone wants to get a rebushed chassis ( exchange ) e-mail me ,let me know early / late chassis loco # ? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13768	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 7/5/2001
Subject: Reponse from ebay

MSN Home Hotmail Web Search Shopping Money People & Chat Hotmail� keithkuzma@... Inbox Compose Address Book Folders Options Messenger Calendar Help Folder: Inbox From: keith kuzma <keefer1_us@...> Save Address - Block Sender To: keithkuzma@... Save Address Subject: Fwd: RE: Proposed Toy Category Changes on eBay Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 18:57:53 -0700 (PDT) Reply Reply All Forward Delete Previous Next Close -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Note: forwarded message attached. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ Hi Keith, You got it, I will add a category for S scale. Thanks very much for taking a look and replying. Cheers, Jill -----Original Message----- From: keith kuzma [mailto:keefer1_us@...] Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2001 6:24 PM To: Finlayson, Jill Subject: Re: Proposed Toy Category Changes on eBay None of these categories make any difference to me.I would like to see"S" under toy trains,scales,"s"Keith "Finlayson, Jill" <jill@...> wrote: Hi, I am the Senior Category Manager for Toys at eBay and I am writing you to ask that you take a look at the proposed changes to the toy category structure. I have had this proposal up for more than a couple weeks and have received very little feedback thus far, so I would very much welcome your thoughts. The link to the proposed structure can be found on the Toys category page which is accessible from the eBay Home Page by clicking on Toys. Or you can go directly to: http://pages.ebay.com/preview/chg-toys.html This is a holiday week so I am sure many of you have plans, but if you can fit in a few minutes to review, I would greatly appreciate it. Please reply to this email just to let me know you received it, as well as to send any feedback you may have to me. Based on feedback I have already received, there are two other changes thatI would like your feedback on in addition to those in the preview as you see it now. I am proposing to increase visibility for Ride-ons and Pedal cars categories by renaming "Outdoor Toys, Structures" top level category to "Ride-ons and Outdoor Toys". I am also proposing sub categories for Magic the Gathering Cards. I have put more detail on those suggested changes below in this email. The majority of the proposed changes are in the preview, though, so a glance and some feedback from your perspective would be great. If you would like to chat by phone, send me your number or call me at 408-558-7436. Take care and Happy Fourth of July, Jill Jill Finlayson Senior Category Manager eBay 2145 Hamilton Ave. San Jose, CA 95125 408-558-7400 toysbbs@... Ride-Ons, Outdoor Toys [11743] (was: Outdoor Toys, Structures) Pedal Cars new Modern (1970-Now) new Vintage (Pre-1970) [726] was: Vintage: Pe! dal Cars Ride-Ons, Tricycles new Modern (1970-Now) [11746] was: Tricycles, Ride-Ons Vintage (Pre-1970) [732] was: Vintage: Ride Ons Sand, Water Toys [11745] Swings, Slides, Gyms new Tents, Tunnels, Playhut [11744] was: Playhut, Tents, Tunnels Other [11742] was: General Magic, Gaming Cards (CCG) [2536] Gaming [478] Magic the Gathering Accessories Boxes, Packs Booster Packs Starter Packs Collections Full Sets Individual Cards Artifacts Lands Black Cards Blue Cards Gold Cards Green Cards Red Cards White Cards Other [218] Other [2535] _____ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ <http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=tagline> --0-1152558852-994384673=:7928-- Reply Reply All Forward Delete Previous Next Close (Move to Selected Folder)InboxSent MessagesDraftsTrash Can Inbox Compose Address Book Folders Options Messenger Calendar Help Get notified when you have new Hotmail or when your friends are online, send instant messages, listen to music and more. Try the new browsing software from Microsoft that makes it easy to get more from the Web. Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Other Links: Buy Music Download Music Buy Books Free Games Pharmacy More... Special Features: eShop: great stores, great deals Are your friends online? The Web's best personal finance site Keep your car running longer Get on your soap box More... � 2001 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. TERMS OF USE TRUSTe Approved Privacy Statement _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13769	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 7/5/2001
Subject: education and trains do mix

You have an opportunity to help education a little and get a piece of our "s" gauge history.Because of state funding reductions in our public schools in Alabama,teachers are having to provide a lot of their own supplies and equipment.I hate to ask any for anything without offering something in return.Here is the train part.I have one of Tom Barker's early(1974)edition repair guides.autographed with a great picture of Tom and his trains for a bookmark.I am going to auction it on ebay to help raise money towards a computer fo my favorite teacher,my wife.(Sorry Doug,yor a close second)The winner will be provided with a letter of donation for the entire amount.NOT NET PROFIT Thanks in advance for all your support.Keith _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13770	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 7/5/2001
Subject: history

Sorry, i made a mistake. I said "...the history teaching in this country is pathetic." I MEANT to say, "...the teaching of history in this country is pathetic." I did not mean to put the onus on the teachers at all. I blame our culture for not valuing our past enough. The education situation is a reflection of the cultural one. I'm not just talking about students, but everyone. During the American revolution, the British army was camped about one block from my house. I once found a musket ball in a street digging. Absolutely no one knows they were there. About a mile from me is the spot where the first cavalry battle, and the first colonial victory, took place? Know what's there? A Mac Donalds! No plaque, no nothing. Those who want to deal with the past in a meaningful way in America, be they history teachers or canal fans or electric train hobbyists, are a distinct minority. However, I sense a general dissatisfaction with the lack of engagement with the past. It seems to me that fans of history are getting louder, be they preservation groups, elementary school parents, or whomever. To me, this thread is on topic, because attitudes toward dealing with history impact directly on playing with toy trains. To those who feel this has been off topic, I apologize. It's just about over now anyway. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13771	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 7/5/2001
Subject: ebay category

I have just been advised,there will in the near future be an "s" category in scales.i have the reponse from ebay and will be happy to send it to anyone contacting me off list.Keith _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13772	From: Euell Johnson	Date: 7/5/2001
Subject: Re: history

Tom, You were much more eloquent that I was. And, yes, that are all kinds of ways to teach history. Another good hobby is genealogy. Having had the opportunity of visitng Saratoga, Sackets Harbor, Vicksburg, Gettysburg, Shiloh, New Market, Pea Ridge, Bull Run, the Wilderness, Spotsyvania and several other of these old national treasures, I understand your point of view. My Daddy would tell us to quit complaining and do something about it. EJ ----- Original Message ----- From: <jarcho@...> To: <S-trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 10:17 PM Subject: [S-Trains] history > Sorry, i made a mistake. I said "...the history teaching in this country > is pathetic." I MEANT to say, "...the teaching of history in this country > is pathetic." I did not mean to put the onus on the teachers at all. I > blame our culture for not valuing our past enough. The education situation > is a reflection of the cultural one. I'm not just talking about students, > but everyone. > > During the American revolution, the British army was camped about one block > from my house. I once found a musket ball in a street digging. Absolutely > no one knows they were there. About a mile from me is the spot where the > first cavalry battle, and the first colonial victory, took place? Know > what's there? A Mac Donalds! No plaque, no nothing. > > Those who want to deal with the past in a meaningful way in America, be > they history teachers or canal fans or electric train hobbyists, are a > distinct minority. However, I sense a general dissatisfaction with the > lack of engagement with the past. It seems to me that fans of history are > getting louder, be they preservation groups, elementary school parents, or > whomever. > > To me, this thread is on topic, because attitudes toward dealing with > history impact directly on playing with toy trains. To those who feel this > has been off topic, I apologize. It's just about over now anyway. > > Tom Jarcho > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13773	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 7/5/2001
Subject: Re: history

Guess what was on the news tonight. The NEA wants to teach about Homosexual life style in the schools.. They still will not know how to read or write but the will know how to be a queer. Larry jarcho@... wrote: > > Sorry, i made a mistake. I said "...the history teaching in this country > is pathetic." I MEANT to say, "...the teaching of history in this country > is pathetic." I did not mean to put the onus on the teachers at all. I > blame our culture for not valuing our past enough. The education situation > is a reflection of the cultural one. I'm not just talking about students, > but everyone. > > During the American revolution, the British army was camped about one block > from my house. I once found a musket ball in a street digging. Absolutely > no one knows they were there. About a mile from me is the spot where the > first cavalry battle, and the first colonial victory, took place? Know > what's there? A Mac Donalds! No plaque, no nothing. > > Those who want to deal with the past in a meaningful way in America, be > they history teachers or canal fans or electric train hobbyists, are a > distinct minority. However, I sense a general dissatisfaction with the > lack of engagement with the past. It seems to me that fans of history are > getting louder, be they preservation groups, elementary school parents, or > whomever. > > To me, this thread is on topic, because attitudes toward dealing with > history impact directly on playing with toy trains. To those who feel this > has been off topic, I apologize. It's just about over now anyway. > > Tom Jarcho > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13774	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 7/5/2001
Subject: 360 rebushing

David: I have had to shim several diesel motors. Usually just the armature bearings; I don't recall ever shimming a diesel field or gear covers. Mostly these were diesels that had been sloppily rebushed. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13775	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 7/6/2001
Subject: GET BACK ON TOPIC -

Consider this a warning to all my friends on this list that went WAY OFF topic. This is not the History of American Education list, if you like you can start that list someplace else. All you guys need to GET BACK TO TRAINS or railroad or toys. I think this is a good list and provides a good service, don't screw it up with opinions that just piss people off. No one is going to change their opinion because of something you write on this list. How about those F3s! List Moderator ===== Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com Photography - Computers - Trains __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13776	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 7/6/2001
Subject: 360 rebushing

Thanks for the comments. I shimmed the fields and grease caps to keep the same relative positioning and clearances between all components as if no shims. In fact the shims for the armature bearings are U-shaped with tabs under the hold-down screws so as to keep the same positioning of them to the bearings and the brushes to the armature. But frankly, I hope not to have to do this for awhile. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13777	From: Jon Marinello	Date: 7/6/2001
Subject: American Models UP Heavyweight Passenger Cars For Sale

I have added a bookmark to the auction so you can see pictures and bid if you would like to. Thanks, --jon

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13778	From: busyboy	Date: 7/6/2001
Subject: Off topic and off color

My Fellow Americans: I have read all the posts about history, wars, Independence Day, the failings of education, and society in general. I did not speak up to protest the off topic nature of these posts because, I figured, it's a national holiday. It's a patriotic holiday, when the hearts of men pound in their chests at the sight of the colors. It's an emotional holiday, when what is good about this country brings a tear to your eye, and it's shortcomings reduce you to bawling. It's a time for men of conscience to speak their mind and seek to rectify what is wrong, and I felt it would be downright unpatriotic of me to protest. Now I speak. The last post I saw in this thread was disgraceful. It was pejorative towards an entire group, simplistic in it's line of thought, filled with hate and predjudice, and beneath the moral tone of all that was said before. The poster, someone whose opinion in S trains is respected, need not apologize for his feelings expressed. If that is how he feels, then let him. But this is why groups such as ours are kept on topic. We all share an interest in trains. We may be widely disparate on many issues, but we all share one passion. Here is where we communicate. Politics and religion, race and sexuality are not a part of this communication. That is why it works so well. Let's not tear it apart with off topic opinions that seek to divide us. Sincerely, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13779	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 7/6/2001
Subject: boxes

I have some blue and yellow flyer box parts,tabs ,ends,tabless ,endless boxes.First response can have them for the $4.00 priority mail price.Keith _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13780	From: roberte613@aol.com	Date: 7/6/2001
Subject: MTH Hellgate Bridge

Really enjoying the 4th of July interchange but, a train question here. Can the MTH Hellgate bridge be successfully used with Flyer? Opinions? Thanks, Robert E.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13781	From: ronnat@cros.net	Date: 7/6/2001
Subject: mth hellgate bridge

I think it/s a bit pricey but if you like it/s looks & it fits on you layout why not?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13782	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 7/6/2001
Subject: Flyer in the newspaper

Hey guys, there's a photo of a Flyer loco in my newspaper today! In NY Newsday, on p. B 18, in the entertainment section, is a photo of a Franklin engine in an ad for a local theater company's summer program for kids, "The Friendship Express", by Spectrum Theater on Wheels. The photo is of a 21088 on a few sections of Flyer track. The sticker on the loco has been replaced with one that says, "Friendship". Why is it that this loco is always the one Flyer loco always seen in ads? It's gotta be the third ugliest one ever made, after the F-9 and the Casey Jones. Could it be because it's more historical??? Naaaaaah. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13783	From: Rick Evans	Date: 7/6/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer in the newspaper

The Franklin is the third ugliest loco ever made???? Ok Tom,...now you've done it!! Now you've crossed the line!! Just kiddin'!! Maybe they use the Franklin a lot due to that it looks like a typical "toy" train?? I like my Franklin,..although the scale is off. Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13784	From: Alan C Udy	Date: 7/6/2001
Subject: Christmas in July

I received today the first Christmas mailing related to a subject dear to all our hearts. I'm sure many of you have also. This commercial mailing was from the National Railroad Museum (800 556-5494), and one of the sample Christmas cards has the artists rendition of Santa putting the finishing magic tough on a #300 Atlantic coupled to a streamlined passenger car (red top and chrome sides, not exactly factory production). Not really artwork to be framed, but someone there needs to be congratulated on their choice of subjects. Alan Udy Idaho Falls, Idaho ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13785	From: IronHorse	Date: 7/6/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer in the newspaper

> HEY !!! I have a Franklin loco. I think it looks just dandy. It runs well and pulls strong. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. :o) Roger Hinds HTTP://travel.to/cofa > > Why is it that this loco is always the one Flyer loco always seen in ads? > It's gotta be the third ugliest one ever made, after the F-9 and the Casey > Jones. > > Could it be because it's more historical??? > > Naaaaaah. > > Tom Jarcho > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13786	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 7/6/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, July 8, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13787	From: Peck	Date: 7/6/2001
Subject: Re: NASG CONVENTION

For those of you attending the convention in Scranton, be aware that we will have the following at our tables........ (1) the SnS can motor converion kits, both AC and DC. W ewill also have a Hudson there with the conversion kit installed, and----from time to time---operating on one of the layouts. MOST LIKELY, it will be on the Bristol Club layout, which will be located in the roundhouse at Steamtown. If it isn't running, and you want to see it, ASK someone in the layout. I won't be there-----I'll be in the Dealer Hall----but the guys in the BClub should accomodate you, I hope! We will have the can motor kits for sale in the dealer hall. (2) the pilot model of the NASG GULF tankcar for 2001. We don't expect delivery until August, but we are still taking orders. Only about 150 cars remain (out of 750), so don't hesitate. John Foley will probably have the car on display, along with order forms, at the NASG table. (3) First announcement----at our tables, you will see samples of the first run of a series of unpainted heavyweight passenger car shells we will be offering. Repro shells of the Gilbert heavyweight shells, as well as a "new" heavyweight RPO shell. We will be accepting orders, but no delivery until fall. (4) Trailer vans---- first appearance of repro trailer vans used by Gilbert on the 956 MONON flatcars. These are brand new, quality production, and are now available, with or without stickers. If you previously saw any of these at YORK this spring, be aware that those were rejects!!!! These are the final product! (5) Hudson valve linkage assemblies! (6) Repro Armored car loads for the 715 Auto Unloader flatcars! (7) A large selection of S SCALE equipment. This comes from a scale member of our Bristol Club who is downsizing tremendously. One table full of SCALE items....not highrail. (8) MAYBE--- first samples of brand new repro PULLMOR steam driver rims! Depends whether they arrive in time. (9) An HO model, and order forms, for our exclusive BROOKSIDE MILK S-scale wood-sided reefer, due this fall, and produced by S-Helper Service. It can also be viewed, in color, on our website. See you in Scranton!!! Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@... VISA --MC--DISCOVER--AMEX--PAYPAL Accepted.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13788	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 7/6/2001
Subject: Re: MTH Hellgate Bridge

In a message dated 7/6/01 1:39:19 PM, roberte613@... writes: << Can the MTH Hellgate bridge be successfully used with Flyer? Opinions? Thanks, Robert E. >> I assuming that you are asking about the 30-9020/9021 plastic Hellgate and not the copy of Lionel's No. 300. I do not see any reason why it could not be made to "work". RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13789	From: wayned9@msn.com	Date: 7/6/2001
Subject: Joe's Train Repair

I had sent him an email and it was bounced back by YAHOO saying the account was (no longer) valid. Anyone know what happened?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13790	From: roy inman	Date: 7/6/2001
Subject: sale cars

Hi all, > I noticed at my local Wal-Mart that Matchbox cars were on sale for 87 cents.To > my rather jaded, unskilled eye, they looked sordakinda like they would be > close to S, maybe toward the back of a layout. (Rivet counters may > disregard, and I hope no one's sensibilities have been offended.) > Regards, > Roy Inman > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13791	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 7/7/2001
Subject: Re: Franklin Engine

Tom, The women dig the the engine man! And if the woman likes it, she usually let's you play with them.( The trains man, the trains!) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13792	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 7/7/2001
Subject: Re: history

Tom Have found, much to our dismay, that the local schools have no mechanism to teach local history. The teachers don't know it, because they aren't from here, and the system does not require it. SO, our local history lies under McDonalds and highways etc. I said "our" dismay, as I am involved in a Tri-Cenntenial Celebration and the Chair found that the schools could not help with the history EVEN of the school district. The Chair is a teacher in the district and she was amazed. Not many other people involved were amazed. Jim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13793	From: Scott Brown	Date: 7/7/2001
Subject: 290 ebay ad

I was laughing pretty good by the end of this ad. How many "rare", "powerful", "1949" can you find? LOL. And just think...after this auction, you may never see another 290 for sale !!! LOL Enjoy !! Scott Brown Atlantic Coast S Gaugers Washington & Old Dominion Division This rare COLLECTOR'S item American Flyer steam locomotive Engine Number 290 built in 1949 works very well in forward and reverse, plus neutral. This powerful American Flyer Engine Number 290 built in 1949 also comes with this beautiful Wood Tender with rare metal flip coupler, Gulf Silver Fuel Tanker and Red Caboose. The Steam Locomotive Head light shines beautifully. This Powerful locomotive also has a perfectly working Steam Smoke Unit. PLUS this Rare 1949 built American Flyer number 290 Steam Locomotive has a perfectly working CHUG CHUG SOUND Unit. Six pieces of track come with this train. Plus you also get a Powerful 40 Watt American Flyer Transformer. And so with all these extra options, this American Flyer Steam Locomotive Engine Number 290 built in 1949 is very very very rare to find. Once it is sold you may never see another American Flyer Engine Number 290 built in 1949 for sale EVER again. And so this powerful steam locomotive engine number 290 that was built in 1949 is a Rare COLLECTOR'S item. Please do not miss out on this opportunity to OWN a part of American Train HISTORY. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1612832115

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13794	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 7/7/2001
Subject: Re: 290 ebay ad

Wow! I own a lot of history and 2- 290s. Staying on the NPSG branchline of NASG track, Glenn Scott Brown wrote: I was laughing pretty good by the end of this ad. How many "rare", "powerful", "1949" can you find? LOL. And just think...after this auction, you may never see another 290 for sale !!! LOL Enjoy !!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13795	From: rxman46321@aol.com	Date: 7/7/2001
Subject: A-M RS3's

Just got a couple second hand RS3's. When I took the shell off there was a Dallee #910814 card in the wiring scheme. Is this an electronic reverser? I've never seen anything like it so assume that's what it is. I run DCC and want to take the loco to DC. John Griffin

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13796	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 7/7/2001
Subject: Re: A-M RS3's

Dear John, The first RS-3s were delivered in 1991 and had the Dallee AC/DC reversing units (green). These had 4 amp diode bridges and sometimes touched the drive train. Later, American Models had Dallee make custom boards (light gray). For DCC, you could at one time get extra headlight sockets and bulbs from AM. Don T. rxman46321@... wrote: > Just got a couple second hand RS3's. When I took the shell off there was a Dallee #910814 card in the wiring scheme. Is this an electronic reverser? I've never seen anything like it so assume that's what it is. > > I run DCC and want to take the loco to DC. > > John Griffin -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 F-3s and Double Sheathed boxcars are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/emdf3s_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13797	From: Michael Greene	Date: 7/7/2001
Subject: Re: A-M RS3's

We've converted a few of the more recent RS-3s to DCC. No problems. The last one I did I used a plug and play decoder from NCE as I recall -- it's very easy to solder right to the the tabs on the decoder. If I wanted sound I'd probably use one of the DSD100-LC decoders -- again probably a plug and play model because of ease of soldering. However I do recommend that you NOT use the AM bulbs. I don't know about the ones in these early units, but bulbs in more recent vintage, are high current draw bulbs. On top of that the inrush current of a cold bulb is as much as 10x the nominal current draw. So you end up with: - high inrush current - high current draw off your booster - lots of heat - an increased chance to blow the function output on the decoder. An an alternative we have pretty much standardized on the Miniatronics 16V 30mA bulbs. Alternatively LEDs with the appropriate resistor will make a good choice. Michael At 10:46 AM 7/7/2001 -0400, Robin Thompson wrote: >Dear John, > The first RS-3s were delivered in 1991 and had the Dallee AC/DC > reversing units (green). These had 4 amp diode bridges and sometimes > touched the drive train. Later, American Models had Dallee make custom >boards (light gray). > For DCC, you could at one time get extra headlight sockets and bulbs > from AM. >Don T. > >rxman46321@... wrote: > > > Just got a couple second hand RS3's. When I took the shell off there > was a Dallee #910814 card in the wiring scheme. Is this an electronic > reverser? I've never seen anything like it so assume that's what it is. > > > > I run DCC and want to take the loco to DC. > > > > John Griffin > >-- Don Thompson >S Helper Service Inc. >http://www.showcaseline.com >1.800.465.0303 >F-3s and Double Sheathed boxcars are now shipping! >http://www.showcaseline.com/emdf3s_in_stock.html > > > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13798	From: Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S.	Date: 7/7/2001
Subject: Congrats!

Howdy Friends The new Model Railroader just arrived here in sunny Florida, and congratulations go out to the winners of the 2000 Readers' Choice Awards for S products: Locomotive - S Helper Service SW-1 Rolling Stock - S Helper Service 40' Wood Refrigerator Car Structure - River Raisin Models Pin-Connected Pratt Bridge AND Mike Fyton's superior Kaw Valley S scale layout is the lead article!! Y'all done good! Bill -- ============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-643-1105 FAX: 813-681-7326 B.T.S. http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13799	From: Michael Greene	Date: 7/7/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] MARS Lights

On the S-Scale list Ken Z mentioned about the NP using the top headlight on F-3s for the MARS light and approaches for making the change. Once again it appears that excellent engineering from S Helper Service makes this easy. Thought I'd cross post some info as others might find it useful. Here's what you do: 1) Remove the A unit shell (4 screws on the bottom of the loco). 2) Remove the two screws that hold the cab floor in place (Between the engineer and the fireman) 3) Underneath the cab floor on each side you will see two 2-pin connectors. The connections on one side go to both headlights, and the connections on the other side go to the number boards. Swap the two connections on the side where the wires go to the headlights. This was on the fireman side on my loco, and I expect yours. Please note that the connectors are NOT "keyed". So be sure when you reconnect them, that the red wire connects to the red wire and the white wire connects to the white wire. Also you will note that S Helper Service has a small piece of tape on each of the connectors. I recommend replacing it when you're finished, as it will keep the connections from separating accidentally. 4) All done. Replace the screws that hold the cab floor in place and then replace the shell. This should work for all the environments where you separate control of the headlight and MARS light. Another tip that might be useful for those who will have the S Helper Service DCC sound decoders in your F-3s. These take the F-3s to a new level! In the case where the DCC decoder is installed, by default Function 0 (F0) controls the upper headlight and Function 6 (F6) controls the lower headlight. If you swap the connectors as described above, now F0 will control lower light and F6 the upper light. In addition to changing the location of the MARS light, the DCC decoder makes changing the light effect for the headlight (Function 0(F0)) and/or the MARS light(F6) very easy. There is a CV that can be programmed to your choice of values. Some of the options are: - on/off light - dimmable light (using Function 7 (F7) as the dimmer control) (default for F0) - MARS light (default for F6) - Gyralite - Oscillating headlight - Single flash strobe - double flash strobe - D312 rotary beacon - Prime Stratolite For example if you want F6 to turn on a Gyralite instead of a MARS light, simple change the value of CV52 from 2 to 3. All set. Hope this helps... Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13800	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/7/2001
Subject: Re: history

Jim, Hmm, I never thought about that, as being from a small town where the teachers were almost all long-term residents, it didn't come up (also Dunsmuir started out as a Railroad town, and still was at the time, so the history was hard to miss!); and now, as a curator for the local history museum, I am inundated with local history! And guess where the schools come for it?? Our educational program is one of our most active community outreaches (sorry for the modern political-speak, it becomes somewhat natural after a time of filling out paperwork!). The local county schools office IS aware of their history, they recently hosted our society with a talk and display of stuff from their archives. Guess I'm just lucky to be in this area! Now as far as local railroad history, other than the Feather River Canyon route, still in use, there is not a lot of awareness of the Swayne Lumber Company Railroad, which used to wind all around the mountains here, and there is still evidence of it in some areas (it is used as a horse trail near the Oroville Dam). The 4th oldest railroad in California still has about 4 miles intact here too, though few know it, and 1/4 mile of it was stolen for the ties (the DA let 'em go, even though we had the evidence and the perps did $50K of damage). The track is presently disconnected and held in reserve for industrial development--but how long that will last is anyone's guess. Lots of neat Model RRing prototypes around here--Tunnels that circle inside a mountain, deep cuts, bridges, ballast quarry on-line,etc.! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13801	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 7/7/2001
Subject: New file uploaded to S-Trains

Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the S-Trains group. File : /Steamtown with Clinic Sked.doc Uploaded by : foley164@... Description : Final Steamtown Schedule You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/Steamtown%20with%20Clinic%20Sked.doc To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, foley164@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13802	From: Robert Allen Conner NCARB Architect	Date: 7/7/2001
Subject: WHERE TO FIND STUFF

Clear DayHEY GUYS.....GOING TO GO ON A SHORT TRIP.....JACKSONVILLE VIA 95 TO RICHMOND, RICHMOND VIA 64 TO CHARLESTON, W. VA, CHARLESTON VIA BACKROADS TO PIGEON FORGE, PF TO ATLANTA, ATLANTA TO JAX VIA 75 / 10.... QUESTION...ANY GOOD PLACES TO FIND FLYER? OR GOOD WOOD MODEL AIRPLANES? ALONG THIS ROUTE? BOB [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13803	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 7/7/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1068

Rick: The Franklin loco is not that much out of scale, it's prototype is narrow gauge, it scale is On3 , (3'-0" = 3/4") between the rails AF is track is 7/8" so it is not that far off. Check out the American class loco's, NYC #999 or Atlantic & Gulf R.R.'s "SAM HILL". They were just built ugly. Jerry 77-11644 ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13804	From: rgajnak@earthlink.net	Date: 7/7/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] MARS Lights

Micheal Greene wrote: >On the S-Scale list Ken Z mentioned about the NP using the top >headlight on F-3s for the MARS light and approaches for making the >change. Once again it appears that excellent engineering from S >Helper Service makes this easy. Actually, most, if not all F-Units had the MARS light in the upper headlight casing when so equipped. This also appears true for E- units and Alco PA's and FA's so equipped. Be seeing you.. Rich G.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13805	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/7/2001
Subject: Re: 290 ebay ad

Hmm, One could write the following to the owner: You know, this is, you know, an interesting, you know, description of, you know, your, you know, rare, you know, uh, powerful, you know, 290 you know, steam locomotive, you know? Hmm, think I'd better go do something, you know, constructive, you know? S' David D. Owner of many "rare, powerful" 40 watt transformers!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13806	From: Scott Brown	Date: 7/7/2001
Subject: Re: 290 ebay ad

OMG !!!! You won't believe it !! There is ANOTHER 290 for sale on ebay !! Quick !!! BID NOW !! YOU MAY NEVER SEE ANOTHER RARE, POWERFUL, MADE IN 1949, AMERICAN FLYER 290, PIECE OF AMERICAN HISTORY AGAIN !!!!!! http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1611674020 LOL Scott Brown Atlantic Coast S Gaugers Washington & Old Dominion Division

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13807	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 7/7/2001
Subject: Re: sale cars

Roy Inman wrote: > I noticed at my local Wal-Mart that Matchbox cars were on sale for 87 cents.To > my rather jaded, unskilled eye, they looked sordakinda like they would be > close to S, maybe toward the back of a layout. Since the early '80s Matchbox, formerly of Lesney, then Tyco and now Mattel, makes it a practice to mold the scale of a given piece into its chassis. You can usually find it near the front or rear bumper underneath the piece. (Majorette used to do that as well.) In the regular "$1" line which usually sells for $0.74 to $1.49 depending on the store/chain selling it, there are vehicles ranging from 1/52 (usually small vehicles like quad-runners) to 1/110 (military vehicles, a rocket launcher). The majority run in the 1/56 to 1/72 range. Quite a few of those fall in to the 1/60 to 1/69 range. Cars that I have found useful are a '94 Camaro (1/63), an '83 Camaro (1/63), '70 El Camino (1/69), '98 Camaro convertible (1/63), '55 Chevy convertible (1/65), '69 Camaro convertible (1/61),... Am I starting to sound like a Chevy guy? Anyway, there are many others in the Matchbox line within + or - 5% of 1/64 scale, which is a pretty narrow range. That's not to mention Mattel Hotwheels, Maisto, Johnny Lightning, Racing Champions... okay, so I hang out in toy stores too much. I could post some pix of various examples if anyone's interested. Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13808	From: JamesIngram@track2.com	Date: 7/8/2001
Subject: FYI: New [S-Highlights] List

. === New [S-Highlights] List to announce "Highlights" of S Gauge === Mike McConnell of the South Jersey S-Gaugers has been sending the SJSG club members periodic emails, containing what I have termed "S-Gauge Highlights" (some of which appears may have come from 'sifting' through the S-Trains posts). I have been continuously nagging Mike (and he finally gave in) to let me create a new [S-Highlights] Listserver with Yahoo Groups, because I think the information he has been sending out will be of interest-to, and should be available-to, other interested S-Gaugers. Note this S-Highlights list is: * Announce-only by Mike only (i.e. you can't post to it) * If you subscribe, You will get an email only every week or two or three weeks or whenever Mike feels he has information worth sharing with you. * This list is set up to include attachments, as some messages do include pictures. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To view some of Mike's previous messages, go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Highlights/messages . If you want to SUBSCRIBE, just send a blank email to mailto:S-Highlights-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Anytime you want to unsubscribe, just send a blank email to mailto:S-Highlights-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Note that the above three links will be included in the footer of every [S-Highlights] message. Please note also that this list is not a "competitor" of the 'S-Trains' list. I have been learning how to use these Yahoo lists with Paul Yorke's assistance, and this new list has his 'blessing'. Thanks. - Jim Ingram -- . __ . _____ | | . _______________ _______________ _____ | | \/ . |James R. Ingram| | Williamsport | | | |[]]|_^___^_[] . | 570-322-0988 | | Pa | | D&H | | | | . =|_______________|=|_______________|=_|_____+-+___|________|_ . 0--0 0--0 0--0 0--0 | o+o +-+ <>--<>--<>-= \ . TTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13809	From: Richard J. Nicholls	Date: 7/8/2001
Subject: Train Collectors Quarterly

Friends, Have any of you read the EDITOR'S COLUMN in the July 2001 TRAIN COLLECTORS QUARTERLY? Editor Bruce Manson writes: "S - Alive and Well! S Helper Service and American Models had some great new S gauge products on display. S gauge is slowing (I think he meant slowly) growing, not as fast as O, thank goodness, but slow and steady." His inclusion of "thank goodness" represents the continuing bias against S-guage in TCA. Dick Nicholls [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13810	From: Neimanis,V. [NCR]	Date: 7/8/2001
Subject: Train Lighting Question

When I was just recently in Vancouver, I noticed a train at dusk (probably Canadian Pacific) shunting cars at dockside in the siding and it had a flashing red strobe light in addition to its regular headlight. Is this something recent or new? I had never a chance to see this before. Is this now common place and something to consider for our scale models. V. Neimanis

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13811	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 7/8/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, July 8, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13812	From: Robert E. Yablonski	Date: 7/8/2001
Subject: For Sale

I have a box of GarGraves Flex track and 8 switches, 4 right and 4 left for sale. You name the price and pay shipping. First come first serve. Robert E. Yablonski yabo@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13813	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 7/8/2001
Subject: Re: National Train Show in St. Louis

Robin, Mike and I will be exhibiting at the National Train Show in St. Louis next weekend (July 13th thru 15th) . If you are in the area, please stop by our booth. We will have a 6' X 12' layout, new products and our complete line of trains on sale at the show. For more information about the show go to" http://www.nationaltrainshow.com/ Don -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 F-3s and Double Sheathed boxcars are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/emdf3s_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13814	From: John Foley	Date: 7/8/2001
Subject: Clinic at Steamtown Convention

Hi Folks Thanks to Wally Collins for donating some Perma Built kits we are having a clinic Build An S Craftsman Car Kit. The charge is only $5 each. This includes a kit, glue and a complete copy of a 16 page early Perma-Built Catalog. We have room for 30. The clinics are scheduled for Wednesday July 25th at 8pm & Friday July 27th at 8:30pm. This clinic and all others will be listed in the Schedule booklet you will be issued with your registration packet. You can pay for this clinic at the registration table. Bill Fraley who has won many awards for his modeling will be your instructor. Bill plans on getting you started with your kit with the hope you finish it at home. These kits represent different railroads so first come first pick. All kits are complete Both Bill and I hope that some of the finished models will be entered in the 2002 convention John Foley Convention Chairmen

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13815	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 7/8/2001
Subject: Tom Barkers book

Ebay item #1615166756 is an autographed copy of Tom's 1974 repair book.Lets run the price up,all the money will be spent on computer/multi-media stuff in my wife's history classroom.Due to state budget cuts,most of her supplies will come out of her pocket.I also have a "Sam's Ford pickup" from Walmart.First guy willing to pay shipping can have it.Thanks in advance ,Keith _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13816	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 7/8/2001
Subject: New file uploaded to S-Trains

Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the S-Trains group. File : /Steamtown with Clinic Sked1Final.doc Uploaded by : foley164@... Description : Steamtown Schedule You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/Steamtown%20with%20Clinic%20Sked1Final.doc To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, foley164@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13817	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/8/2001
Subject: Sunday Chat -missed you all!

Well, my schedule and flyer-chat collided again, but Rick will appreciate my excuse! I wuz eating Mongolian BBQ! --oh, and Shubert's Ice Cream (Homemade since 1934) after taking Linda shopping for shoes (and I bought a saw--love those Sears stores, something for everyone!) While at "the big city mall" stopped by a magazine rack and the MR was there w/ the S gauge layout in it, and editorial that was pretty favorable to S!! COOL! (See, I found a RR thing to put in this post!) Anyway, got back at 7:15 PDT, and you were all gone! Maybe next Sunday. . . . S' David D. PS My three-year-old Christmas Tree layout will probably come down this month--we THINK we're going to sell this dump, er Wonderful House, and get something big enough for a REAL layout--but only time will tell (and the real estate market)--it's a complex "if this sells, and that is available, and the moon rises when the crow cries. . ." deal. No wonder my blood pressure is up! Need more train time. . .

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13818	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 7/9/2001
Subject: (no subject)

Richard J. Nicholls <nicholls@...> wrote: <Subject: Train Collectors Quarterly < <Friends, < <Have any of you read the EDITOR'S COLUMN in the July <2001 TRAIN COLLECTORS QUARTERLY? Editor Bruce Manson <writes: "S - Alive and Well! S Helper Service and <American Models had some great new S gauge products on <display. S gauge is slowing (I think he meant slowly) <growing, not as fast as O, thank goodness, but slow <and steady." His inclusion of "thank goodness" <represents the continuing bias against S-guage in TCA. < < Dick Nicholls Actually, I think that you misinterpreted Bruce's comment. Bruce is an avid S gauger, and has been a big supported within TCA. I believe that his inclusion of "thank goodness" meant that S gauge is growing at an acceptable rate that can be supported by the buying public, while the O market (O27, O gauge, O scale) has been pall mall (often combative and overly competitive) in its offerings. Joe ===== Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,300 part lines American Models ## S-Helper Service ## Gilbert Rerpoductions Featuring Parts by Toy Trains International joestrainrepair@... Master Card/Visa __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13819	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 7/9/2001
Subject: Franklin Loco

Well, Tom, I kinda like the looks of the AF old-time loco. I know that it is more O scale than S, but the Lionel version was even more out of scale. Beside, it is an excellent crowd pleaser. This Saturday at the Metrolina Train Show in Charlotte, NC, the Carolinas Division of the Atlantic Coast S Gaugers ran a 22 by 22 foot layout for the second weekend in a row. [This layout consisted entirely of Carolinas Division member modules, with none from the other 3 divisions, and included a T module and two 4-track yard modules.] Anyhow, I was able to run my Washington set for over 2 hours pulling 2 Franklin coaches, the Washington coach, and 4 cannon flatcars. This engine pulled this consist with ease, and smokes very well for a loco with an HO smoke unit. We have added a number of additional buttons for kids (of all ages). These included a whistle, a searchlight car on a siding, and Louie the Barrel Loader. Kids also greatly enjoyed the MTH "disappearing passengers" Station, my "Gilbert" Car Washer (with its up and down brush motion), and, of course, the stockyard. In addition, at one time we were running two 22 foot (over 1400 scale feet) freight trains. One was pulled by a pair of SHS SW-1s, while the other was pulled by a Southern A-B-B-A F3 set. Pictures should be on the Atlantic Coast S Gaugers web site soon. Joe ===== Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,300 part lines American Models ## S-Helper Service ## Gilbert Rerpoductions Featuring Parts by Toy Trains International joestrainrepair@... Master Card/Visa __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13820	From: Michael Greene	Date: 7/9/2001
Subject: S Helper Service F-3's and DCC

Even though there may be some risk in discussing S scale modeling topics on this list :-), those of you who will be or are considering running their S Helper Service F-3's on DCC may be interested in the following web page: http://www.trainweb.org/bristol-s-gauge/DCC/F3/F3decoder.html It will provide you some early information on the integrated DCC decoders that S Helper Service will be shipping for the F-3's. S Helper was the first S scale manufacturer (at least that I am aware of) to produce DCC ready locomotives. Now they have taken it a step further! They have partnered with SoundTraxx, the industry leader in DCC sound decoders. As a result S Helper Service is offering the F-3 with DCC controlled lights and sounds as part of their product. There are loco manufacturers in other scales, as well as some European manufacturers, who include a DCC decoder in their product, but as far as I know S Helper Service is the first American manufacturer to offer a locomotive with a DCC decoder with both separately controllable lights(headlight, number boards, and specialty lights (MARS, Gyralite, etc.) and separately controlled locomotive sounds (horn, bell, dynamic brakes, engine RPMs). All integrated, no additional wiring required, ready-to-run. In the very near term, look and listen for them at the National Train Show in St. Louis and the NASG National Convention at Steamtown. The web page above was assembled as a result of some testing of the decoder for S Helper Service, and I hope it might be of some value. If something is not clear or there are additional questions, feel free to let me know, and I'll see if we can ferret out the information and add it to the web page. I expect to be in St. Louis Wed PM through Sunday noon, and in Scranton all week. I suspect I may be easy to spot, since I will be carrying around a set of F3's to show my friends in other scales. Regards, Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13821	From: Bill Lane	Date: 7/9/2001
Subject: Pennsy S Models X-29

Hi All, I just received an email from our builder the he is going to be assembling the pilot model for the Pennsy S Models X-29 this week. It is going to be close, but we are hoping to have the website www.pennsysmodels.com updated with the photos of it before we go to the convention. We are going to put our new phone and fax numbers up too. If you are going to the convention, please stop by and see us. The pilot model of the X-29 will be there for you to see. We are also going to be revealing our next project at that time. Thank You Bill Lane Pennsy S Models

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13822	From: Rick Evans	Date: 7/9/2001
Subject: Re: The "FRANKLIN"......

OK,...let's open a can of worms here!! I made a comment about the AF Franklin loco not being to scale. I'm no scale expert, but have been led to believe from this list,...that the Franklin is closer to "O" then "S",...and a recent post just said the same thing. Gerald had brought up the following,.... **((The Franklin loco is not that much out of scale, it's prototype is narrow gauge, it scale is On3 , (3'-0" = 3/4") between the rails AF is track is 7/8" so it is not that far off.))** Sooooooo,......even if the prototype is narrow gauge,...and the scale is On3,..wouldn't that still make the Franklin (regardless of rail width),an "O" gauge loco?? Or closer to "O" then "S"? Hmmmm.....just curious on hearing some comments. Rick (either way, I like my Franklin) Evans

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13823	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/9/2001
Subject: Re: The "FRANKLIN"......

Yep, and the cars are also at least O scale. BUT!! in the scaler's behalf, they are full length! Maybe too long even! It's kinda funny to put one of these next to a heavyweight or a streamline car, as in real life they would be overwhelmed by the newer stuff. Old train stuff is really small! Of course, then the scale crowd would point out the equalized, roller-bearing equipped trucks under them, and there would go any "scale" possibilities! We must remember, these cars were done on an economy production basis, and used as much existing tooling as possible, which is why they are so oversized. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13824	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 7/9/2001
Subject: Re: The "FRANKLIN"......

David D. wrote: >Of course, then the scale crowd would point out the equalized, >roller-bearing equipped trucks under them, and there would go >any "scale" possibilities! Others beside the scale crowd notice that. Most AF tinplate guys I know like to point out with a laugh how Gilbert put their most modern (and expensive) passenger car trucks on the oldest prototype they ever modelled. >We must remember, these cars were done on an economy production basis True. Which is why I still wonder about Gilbert using their most expensive passenger truck on these cars. >and used as much existing tooling as possible, which is why they are >so oversized. I wonder about that too. Gilbert had to come up with new tooling for the carbodies, loco boiler and tender anyway. Why didn't they design them to a more S scale size? Even with the existing Atlantic chassis, the loco and tender could have been made more to S scale. The passenger cars could have been made exactly to S scale. They would have been smaller and used less plastic, saving money. Gilbert could have used freight trucks on them as they did on the New Haven coaches, which would have saved even more money. The sets certainly would have been no less attractive (read: "cute") to the "choo-choo" buying public, and would have been much more appealing to scale- oriented S gaugers. (Ah, hindsight!) But please, don't anybody hit me with that "They're just !*&%#$@ TOYS!" stuff. That's a Zero gauge argument. This is S gauge. They're supposed to be realistically proportioned toys, toys that are also credible models. Wasn't that one of A. C. Gilbert's main selling points? I can never help feeling a little sadness when looking at the Frontiersman sets. They represent one of Gilbert's first major departures from scale realism. As such, they also represent a kind of apostasy which contributed to the demise of AF. Yes, I know there were other factors involved, but the departure from scale was one of the most important, and ultimately proved to be one of the most expensive choices Gilbert execs ever made. So much for saving money. Very sad. Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13825	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 7/9/2001
Subject: Re: The "FRANKLIN"......

Without hitting the "they are toys argument" ,as another pointed out, they ARE fairly accurate On3 Models. Remember, af/acg HAD to appeal to a declining market and a Gift giving Seasonal market. Mothers, aunts , sisters could more easily identify the Franklins as real models. ( I worked seasonally at Polks Hobbies in NYC when it was a Real hobby shop) GTMF (get the money first), meant we had to have a general populace SALEABLE product, not necessarily an hobbyists product. Dennis On Tue, 10 Jul 2001 05:20:27 -0000 eighthmile@... writes: > David D. wrote: > > >Of course, then the scale crowd would point out the equalized, > >roller-bearing equipped trucks under them, and there would go > >any "scale" possibilities! > > Others beside the scale crowd notice that. Most AF tinplate guys I > know like to point out with a laugh how Gilbert put their most > modern > (and expensive) passenger car trucks on the oldest prototype they > ever modelled. > > >We must remember, these cars were done on an economy production > basis > > True. Which is why I still wonder about Gilbert using their most > expensive passenger truck on these cars. > > >and used as much existing tooling as possible, which is why they > are > >so oversized. > > I wonder about that too. Gilbert had to come up with new tooling for > > the carbodies, loco boiler and tender anyway. Why didn't they design > > them to a more S scale size? Even with the existing Atlantic > chassis, > the loco and tender could have been made more to S scale. The > passenger cars could have been made exactly to S scale. They would > have been smaller and used less plastic, saving money. Gilbert could > > have used freight trucks on them as they did on the New Haven > coaches, which would have saved even more money. The sets certainly > > would have been no less attractive (read: "cute") to the "choo-choo" > > buying public, and would have been much more appealing to scale- > oriented S gaugers. (Ah, hindsight!) > > But please, don't anybody hit me with that "They're just !*&%#$@ > TOYS!" stuff. That's a Zero gauge argument. This is S gauge. They're > > supposed to be realistically proportioned toys, toys that are also > credible models. Wasn't that one of A. C. Gilbert's main selling > points? > > I can never help feeling a little sadness when looking at the > Frontiersman sets. They represent one of Gilbert's first major > departures from scale realism. As such, they also represent a kind of > > apostasy which contributed to the demise of AF. Yes, I know there > were other factors involved, but the departure from scale was one of > > the most important, and ultimately proved to be one of the most > expensive choices Gilbert execs ever made. So much for saving money. > > Very sad. > > Chuck F. > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13826	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 7/9/2001
Subject: Franklin

"But please, don't anybody hit me with that "They're just !*&%#$@ TOYS!" stuff. That's a Zero gauge argument. This is S gauge. " The funny thing is,,this is an "s" gauge argument and they are just toys no matter what "scale they are . Why is it so hard for people to say they play with toys? Exspensive ? Yes! But explain that to the kids and wives at the train show that say,hey, look at that pretty green engine. They, and I don't care.It's just a fun to watch,toy train hobby. Chris Burger PS My Franklin set cost me 3 GI JOES when I was 8. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13827	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/9/2001
Subject: Re: The "FRANKLIN"......

Well, I can't argue much with Chuck's posting--BUT!! (don't you hate that?) What makes the trucks ACG's "most expensive"? The tooling dates from 1950, it only uses two wheelsets, as opposed to the heavyweight trucks, which use three. As to why they used them, I suspect it is because, except for the roller bearings, they most visually look "right" to the un-initiated. It wouldn't have cost much more to make new side bodies to fit the stamped metal chassis that would have replicated wooden beam friction-bearing trucks, but marketing obviously decided that most Mom's wouldn't notice (ACG learned early on that Mom usually had the final say over Pop's purchases). Shrinking down the boiler any further to make a scale engine would not leave enough room for the motor, it was already so compact that the HO smoke unit was used, and the usual "on the motor" reverse unit was put in the tender. Nope, I figure the loco was designed first, and the cars later to match the loco. Notice the cars use freight car brake wheels too. Yep, I was never going to own one of these, as they're just too big to run, but then I found one at a local junk shop in pieces (but cosmetically great) for far too cheap to ignore! Oh well. . . . . S' David "who needs Betty Ford (clinic)?" Dewey Hey, I don't need drugs, I gots trains!!!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13828	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 7/9/2001
Subject: Re: The "FRANKLIN"......

Dennis wrote: >Without hitting the "they are toys argument" ,as another pointed out, >they ARE fairly accurate On3 Models. But AF was supposed to be *S* standard gauge models! >Remember, af/acg HAD to appeal to a >declining market and a Gift giving Seasonal market. And, as I pointed out, these trains would have been no less appealing to the "Gift giving Seasonal market" if they were more stricly S scale. On the other hand, they would have been MORE appealing to dedicated S gaugers. More sales would have been made there. >Mothers, aunts ,sisters could more easily identify the Franklins as >real models. Because they were out of (S) scale? I don't see why. >( I worked seasonally at Polks Hobbies in NYC when it was a Real >hobby shop) GTMF (get the money first), meant we had to have a >general populace SALEABLE product, not necessarily an hobbyists >product. But I don't see why the Frontiersman sets would have been any less saleable to the general populace had they been made to a more strict S scale stantard. OTOH, they would certainly have been MORE saleable to Gilbert's existing customer base, declining as it was. (It might have declined a little more slowly.) I've read several accounts of how these sets were being blown out at a fraction of their retail price after that first year. Apparently, the general populace didn't like them all that much for very long. Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13829	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: Re: Franklin

Chris wrote: >The funny thing is,,this is an "s" gauge argument I disagree. The "proportions-don't-count-when-they're-just-toys" argument is a zero gauge argument. Gilbert firmly rebutted it in much of their literature. Check Gilbert's catalogues. S scale proportions were ALWAYS a main selling point. (The other was two rail track. Thank God Gilbert never gave THAT up!) Right from the start of S gauge, Gilbert went out of their way to point out AF's superior (to O gauge) scale accuracy. For example on pg. 3 of the 1953 catalogue we read: "Every 3/16-of-an-inch in an American Flyer train is equal to one foot in a real train. That's why American Flyer trains are not just toys - they're SCALE MODELS. Compare them with other makes which are higher and wider and yet actually SHORTER! Let your own eyes tell you which is the best!" [Capitals Gilbert's]. You see? Gilbert didn't dodge having their trains thought of as toys, but just try and say they are NOT supposed to be scale models, and imagine what a look you'd get from A.C.! >they are just toys no matter what "scale they are. I did not eschew the "toy" label. Whether or not they are toys is not the issue. The issue is that they were, according to Gilbert, ALSO supposed to be reasonably accurate scale models. Gilbert believed that the merging of those two concepts, "toy" and "scale model", constituted a major advantage over other toy train lines. I agree with that notion. My point was that by abandoning that foundational principle the Gilbert company seriously weakened their own product line. >Why is it so >hard for people to say they play with toys? It isn't, for myself. My previous post did not deal with the "toy or not toy" issue. I don't give diddly-squat if people know my trains are toys. If I cared what other people think of my hobby, I'd have taken up something "sophisticated", like stamp collecting, or dangerous, like sky diving. (Yeah, right.) >PS My Franklin set cost me 3 GI JOES when I was 8. I think you made a good trade, Chris! Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13830	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: Re: The "FRANKLIN"......

David wrote: >What makes the trucks ACG's "most expensive"? The tooling dates from >1950, it only uses two wheelsets, as opposed to the heavyweight >trucks, which use three. You're absolutely right David. I was thinking in terms of the passenger trucks relative to the AAR freight trucks. I neglected to consider the heavyweight trucks. Still I think it's safe to say the streamline passenger car trucks were more expensive to make than the sintered iron freight trucks which used less material, and which Gilbert already was cranking out in far greater numbers. >As to why they used them, I suspect it is because, except >for the roller bearings, they most visually look "right" to the >un-initiated. I think you're probably right about that. If so, it shows how inconsistent Gilbert company thinking was becoming as A.C. began to lose interest in day-to-day operations. Still, they weren't that concerned about such visual ussues when they decided what trucks to use on the New Haven cars, which had a more critical market (supposedly). >Shrinking down the boiler any further to make a scale engine would >not leave enough room for the motor, it was already so compact that >the HO smoke unit was used, and the usual "on the motor" reverse >unit was put in the tender. It's interesting that Gilbert DID retool the chassis to make drive wheel bearings more accessible. Too bad they didn't take the trouble to alter the design a little more to accomodate a more believable cab. They would have found more room in the boiler if they lengthened it enough to couple the main rods to the lead drivers instead of the 2nd pair. As for the cab, even without reducing its width it could have been done more accurately. >Nope, I figure the loco was designed first, and the cars later to >match the loco. I remember reading something years ago about how the Frontiersman loco was developed, something about it being actually copied from an engine that a hobbyist scatch built using an Atlantic chassis. In other words, it was handed to Gilbert's production people and they were told to put it into production. That would certainly explain its ungainly proportions, which up until that time would have been sub- standard for Gilbert. >I was never going to own one of these, as they're just too big to >run, but then I found one at a local junk shop in pieces (but >cosmetically great) for far too cheap to ignore! Oh well. . . . . Don't feel bad, David. I once vowed firmly never to bother with the Casey Jones steamer. For-GET that Pike Master stuff! Then my wife found one with a perfect shell and tender for $9. She insisted it was to be "only a shelf unit". But I couldn't stand to have a loco around that didn't run, so it was overhauled. At least I learned a lot about 2-step reverse units... Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13831	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: Re: The "FRANKLIN"......

The story goes that one of Gilbert's salesmen stopped in to see Ed Alexander, one of the founders of TCA and saw his model built on the Atlantic chassis. The salesman borrowed the engine from Ed and it ended up in production. The "cow on the track" came about in much the same way, from a hobby shop in Virginia, once again, the owner was affiliated with TCA. Jim Lyle [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13832	From: David	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: Re: Franklin

First of all, Gilbert did nothing as far as weakening their line by using the Franklin loco and related cars. They didn't even design the Franklin or the cars. The Franklin type loco and cars were modeled by a scaler for use on his pike using an atlantic chassis as a basis, and streamlined passenger car trucks on the cars. I cannot recall who, but either Maury Romer or maybe Gabe visitied this person and saw this hand made set, loved it, and though it would make a perfect addition to the S line, and bought it so they could copy same and include it in the S line. Gilbert copied this model in making their tooling. So if its off slightly in size, its not Gilberts doing. The locos & sets obviously sold well, are handsome, and run fairly well. Thats all that counts. I am researching to find the literature on this as its been a while since I've read the article, but it was one of those maury Romer interviews. Second, whats with this zero gauge? Zero, 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9, S, O N, HO... who cares, face it, they are all TOYS, nothing more, nothing less. None are perfect 100% scale models no matter what advertisement scheme was used in the media, or catalogs. Lionel said the same things about their garbage, so did Ives, Marx, and many others. They are still toys, toys, toys... imperfect toys, nothing can change that fact.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13833	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: Franklin then, how 'bout now...

Hey, Franklin sets, like ACG's F-9's, are clearly (and arguably unfortunately) a departure from all the great "more realism" AF trains that preceded them, but just the same they are fun to own and operate. Less aware observers really like the colorful engine and charm of the old fashioned cars despite how disproportionate they are compared to a Hudson pulling streamlined cars passing by. What puzzles me is that with all the notoriety and popularity of this set, why hasn't a modern manufacture provided us one with more true to 1:64 scale dimensions and true to time period details? My guess is they'd sell out of sets and move a lot of extra coaches, etc. For us train fans, it would more gratifying to run than the original, and for passing observers probably more "cute" than ever. SHS, AM, PA Heritage, LTI (what am I nuts), MTH (still waiting) can you help us scratch this itch? PS Somewhere on the web, I came across an photo of the 1939 Worlds Fair with a streamlined Hudson or Pacific next to an American (Franklin type) wood burner. Both looked great, but you wouldn't believe how much smaller the 4-4-0's really are. The 21088 and 21089 are clearly way off for S-gauge, all the more s-scale. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13834	From: Scott Holm	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: Car numbers for LTI NP set

Can somebody tell me what the car numbers are in the LTI Northern Pacific set (49602)? Are they 48920,48921,48922,48923 and is there two of one of these, and if so, which one and what type is it? And if not, then what is the fifth car missing from the list? Are the extra cars that are sold seperately, the 48924 vista dome, the 48925 coach, and the 48934 diner? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13835	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: Re: The "FRANKLIN"......

Chuck noted the re-tooling of the chassis, making the "axle bearings more accessible. Well, that retooling had little to do with the Franklin, and a lot to do with production costs. The "split Chassis" requires no axle hole drilling, the "holes" are just cast-in grooves. Also, the driver wheelsets can now be quartered and pre-assembled in bulk, and most of them used on any loco (except the Franklin and the Hudson, which used 1) red-center wheels, and 2) Hudson which used metal-tired wheels (usually!). BTW, the tires are the same as used on the Franklin--basically ACG just ran red plastic through the molds! This chassis change was one of the better thought-out cheapenings of the line, IMHO, as it doesn't seem to have effected performance. The beginning of the engineering failure of the AF line, I believe, is the Baldwin loco with a motor not engineered for the normal operating voltage of the rest of the train line. (but then my brother's 355 survived his and my playing) S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13836	From: TPDavis7@aol.com	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: The Franklin

Searched back into my memory, my wife says that I don't remember anything, but I have read an article in the past about the Franklin set. The story goes, that AF found out that Lionel was going to bring out there General set and AF needed to have a set to compete with the Lionel offering. There was a gentleman, E. P. Alexander, one of the founders of the TCA, I believe, who had taken an AF pre-war, 3/16" scale, O gauge, Atlantic, and made it into an American 4-4-0 with passenger cars. Some one from the AF factory contacted Mr. Alexander and bought his train set, which was built to O scale. The factory then made copies of Mr. Alexander's set for use on S gauge track. According to the article the factory reproduced the loco and car bodies just as Mr. Alexander had built them. The Franklin passenger cars are the only AF passenger car bodies not moulded in one piece. Included in the article were photos of the original set on Mr. Alexaner's home layout and also an industral espionage photo of the Lionel pilot model of the General, taken by an AF spy! Tom(Mr. Memory) Davis, Charlotte,NC [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13837	From: jbs@misi.org	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: Power Station Model for 'S'

Anyone know of a great looking electric utility power station kit? Thanks in advance for any info

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13838	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: Re: Car numbers for LTI NP set

Scott, The 8924 vista-dome came in the set, the 8925 coach was the extra car, and a few years later, when LTI made the diner mold, they painted some NP(8934), which is why it is out of the number series. There was also the Railsounds equipped B unit 8117, so you could have a train w/ ABBA and 7 cars--it's a monster of a train! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13839	From: IronHorse	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: AC Gilbert Toys ???

To me a toy is a plaything you buy and can afford to throw away when it is broken or you are tired of it. AC made toys but I wouldn't put most of his trains in that class. His "Toy trains" were the low quality cheepy trains. The others are models. Who of you would consider throwing away your trains when they are broken ??? Not one of you would even consider it because it is a valuable model. The end of the AC Gilbert line was caused by one thing. AC Gilbert died. His son either did not care about quality or had no business sense and therefore cheapened the line. He died a few years after his father. The next people in charge were worse yet at running the company. Then along came slot cars in the early 60s. The kids wanted the cars over trains because the cars were extremely fast. The Gilbert company joined the slot car crowd with a major error. The Gilbert slot cars were junk. AC Gilbert would have made the best slot cars if he was alive at that time. The income from from that would have kept the company stable until the slot car fad died out. The last of Gilbert trains were junk. With a few exceptions. The 19 inch radius kept a lot of guys from buying the pike master track. Some of the rolling stock and locos would hit the switch machines. The track however, looked great. While I am on this subject. You guys out there making the real good "S" trains. I hope you have a provision in your will to keep the product going and the quality there, so my grandchildren can buy good quality trains. I hate to see a good line die with the owner. Roger Hinds Swing and Sway the "S" gauge way.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13840	From: Jacques Ollivier	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: Let a child lead them

For his 5th birthday I let my then 5 year old pick any set that I owned for his Christmas present. Did he pick my Northern? a Pacific, an 0-8-0 switcher, or my New Haven AA set like I feared? Nope, No contest! He picked the Franklin set. There's something there. Then again, I like my Flyer F-9. P.S. Send me that unwanted pikemaster stuff all you true-to-scale guys hate so much. We'll give it a happy home. Have a happy day! Jacques

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13841	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: no mail option

Gentlemen, i am going to turn on the no mail option for a few days. That means I won't be getting any postings. if anyone wants to communicate, please email me directly. I'll try to check my email a couple of times a day. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13842	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: Re: AC Gilbert Toys ?? & the Scale/Toys feud

Roger has some good points, and I'm playing hooky taking time to expand on them, or add to them?? One can't help but notice the fervor that shows up when the discussion of the future of S comes up. Some wish that the AF name never be associated with S, 'cause, "We're serious modelers!" Others argue that AF type stuff is the future of S, "get them hooked, then convert them to scale modelers" is their cry. Well, I'm not about to step into that fray, but it suddenly dawned on me where the passion may be originating. Many of us, in our younger days, touted the superiority of "our" trains over "the others" because we ran on two rail track, and our trains were SCALE models, not fore-shortened caricatures (OK, we now know the passenger cars aren't full length, oh well. . . .). And ACG touted the scale nature of his trains, even showing how to build a real model railroad with them, including building company layouts with realism in mind. I suspect it is that early mind-set that gets us going, "how DARE they say my AF isn't realistic!!" Well, for it's time it really was. Nowadays, it's just close, and better detailing is available by the new companies. I hafta get to work, have fun with your trains! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13843	From: ronnat@cros.net	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: rare & sharp gp 7 on e bay

really what is this hobby coming to ? at last check this eng. was over $ 1,000 . is this eng, that rare? if so I will be retireing soon as I have bunch of these.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13844	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1071

Recently we have seen a Sn3 old timer loco and cars on the market, I don't recall the manufacture, maybe Atlas? and it was running on HO track 5/8" between the rails, an 1/8" too narrow, but it looked good. Jerry 77-11644 ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13845	From: milayman@aol.com	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: Franklin and Bruce

Bruce Manson is a S gauger. Bruce has a great S-gauge collection and a huge layout. Bruce says the standard gauge collection and layout belongs to Anna, his wife. Their toy collection is one of the best I have ever seen. It was truly an honor to meet Bruce and Anna. They are always at York. As editor of the TCA Quarterly, they have made a significant contribution to train collecting. They are good people. The Franklin (with associated rolling stock) is an important part of the American Flyer (Gilbert) collection. Because of the two step reversing unit, big smoke stack that smokes good, and the multiple colors, the Franklin consist in front of the Mystic train station is always ready to help young ones experience running their first train. The joy is unbelievable. It is not important that the Franklin is not prefect. The best example of the Franklin success is the number of times young visitors ask to run the Franklin, again. Marvin

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13846	From: busyboy	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: Re: The Great Franklin/Washington Debate

Chuck F. You GO brother! Defend your point. Whoo, can you see my house from up there? I have often wondered why Gilbert did not scale the Frontier locos down. They would have been so huge in 1:1! Stand one next to a Hudson to see what I mean. However, that's where the answer lies. When you stand the Franklin next to other Gilbert engines, it is roughly the same size. You buy 1/64th cars for your layout, don't you? Ever notice that Hot Wheels sports cars seem right but trucks, step vans, and big suburbans seem small? That's because the manufacturer is appealing to the child's hand size. Mattel is not concerned that you need scale models for your pike. There is an emotional component, too. That's why Beanie Babies are all the same size whether they are representing a house cat or a whale. The reason manufacturers feel they can violate these relative size differences is because . . . they are making toys. A.C. Gilbert was no longer the boss when the Franklin came out. The company was already sliding from the semi-scale milieu to the toy world. Soon they would make those wonderful F units. If they made the Franklin to scale, it would have appeared to the general public to be an HO train. Next to a 1940's streamliner, a frontier American 4-4-0 looks like a miniature. Gilbert was already making an HO line. The marketing disaster that would have resulted from the size confusion would only have served to accelerate the company's decline. To this day, people outside this hobby, when recalling the trains of their youth, seem compelled to remark on the heft, the weight of those big locos. Size does matter, and to the uninitiated, the scale differences matter very little. When you are selling to the parents of kids, you don't sell scale realism. You sell more bang for the buck. A miniature engine and cars might have been seen as cute or precious by some and scale by others, but the vast majority of potential buyers would have thought it wasn't worth the money. The irony is, most people would also have though that a true 1/64 th. Franklin set wasn't in scale with the rest of their Flyer trains! In terms of marketing toys, this was one Gilbert Co. decision that was right on the mark. You could, of course, buy an HO Franklin and convert it to S gauge! Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13847	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: Re: AC Gilbert Toys ???

We all know that many broken AF train sets were thrown away from 1950 to 1990. Today there are still a few broken pieces available but what has survived is in good to VG condition. Sorry but Gilbert products were toys to most of us in the 50s. Glenn IronHorse wrote: To me a toy is a plaything you buy and can afford to throw away when it is broken or you are tired of it. AC made toys but I wouldn't put most of his trains in that class. His "Toy trains" were the low quality cheepy trains. The others are models. Who of you would consider throwing away your trains when they are broken ??? Not one of you would even consider it because it is a valuable model. The end of the AC Gilbert line was caused by one thing. AC Gilbert died. His son either did not care about quality or had no business sense and therefore cheapened the line. He died a few years after his father. The next people in charge were worse yet at running the company. Then along came slot cars in the early 60s. The kids wanted the cars over trains because the cars were extremely fast. The Gilbert company joined the slot car crowd with a major error. The Gilbert slot cars were junk. AC Gilbert would have made the best slot cars if he was alive at that time. The income from from that would have kept the company stable until the slot car fad died out. The last of Gilbert trains were junk. With a few exceptions. The 19 inch radius kept a lot of guys from buying the pike master track. Some of the rolling stock and locos would hit the switch machines. The track however, looked great. While I am on this subject. You guys out there making the real good "S" trains. I hope you have a provision in your will to keep the product going and the quality there, so my grandchildren can buy good quality trains. I hate to see a good line die with the owner. Roger Hinds

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13848	From: David	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: Re: AC Gilbert Toys ???

> The end of the AC Gilbert line was caused by one thing. AC Gilbert died. > His son either did not care about quality or had no business sense and therefore > cheapened the line. > He died a few years after his father. The next people in charge were worse yet > at running the company. True, the company was hurt terribly by A.C.'s death and hence the loss of his direction. But the brother had nothing to do with it, as the family was forced to sell the company off due to tax problems. The next people in charge had no clue about quality, and tried to cut corners and use gimicks in a time when competition was tough.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13849	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: AM HEAVY WTS

Any coments pro or con as to the AM UP Heavy wt. sets....I am planing on buying a set and rember some talk about them on this list....Are they the right era for a 336???Thanks.....Mike PS everyone that helped test the smokefluid should be seeing the final product in your mail today or tomorrow Thanks Again for the help...Please let me know what you think of this latest offeringbefore I run any ads....The planed price will be $6.00 +$2.00 s&h for the 2oz size ( The ones I sent are FREE to you guys that I mailed them to)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13850	From: busyboy	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: Re: Car numbers for LTI NP set

David Dewey, putting down his mesmerizing railroad watch so he could type, wrote: >you could have a train w/ ABBA and 7 >cars--it's a monster of a train! This is what I did with the UP Pony Express. It is ABBA plus two UP headend cars plus the 4 cars, the diner, the extra 2 coaches, and 7 American models heavyweights including the three long extras. Now that is a monster train! Chris Z.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13851	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: Re: Car numbers for LTI NP set

busyboy wrote: > David Dewey, putting down his mesmerizing railroad watch so he could type, > wrote: > >you could have a train w/ ABBA and 7 > >cars--it's a monster of a train! > > This is what I did with the UP Pony Express. It is ABBA plus two UP headend > cars plus the 4 cars, the diner, the extra 2 coaches, and 7 American models > heavyweights including the three long extras. Now that is a monster train! > > Chris Z. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ How about the one running at S Spree. A-B-A NYC PAs, two brass hwt baggs, A-M Budd set with at least 3 extra coaches.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13852	From: rgajnak@earthlink.net	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: Re: The Great Franklin/Washington Debate

Chris Zizzo wrote: >You could, of course, buy an HO Franklin and convert it to S gauge! Well, not really. The HO Franklin was made for Gilbert by Manuta and was essentially a modiified version of their "General" locomotive. The Mantua General was/is a very small locomotive in HO. It is dwarfed by a HO boxcar. Be seeing you... Rich G.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13853	From: softmoods@vcn.com	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: July Train Show/Swap Meet

Hi All, This will be the final post about the Sherman Hill Model Railroad club's Train Show this comming weekend. Please pass the Notice below on to other E-Mail Lists: Sorry for the possible double posts. Sherman Hill Model Railroad Club will be hosting a Model Railroad Show / Swap meet and Afternoon of Railfanning, in Cheyenne, Wyoming. Details of show are below: Date: 14 July 2001 Saturday Time: 9:00am - 12:00am Railfanning: Follows Train Show / Swap Meet and Lunch or after lunch 1:30pm Tour the Former Union Pacific Depot and/or The Union Pacific Steam Shops . Limited Number to go ($ 5.00 Club Donation) (NOTE: First Come, First Serve on UP Steam Shop Tour) Location: 121 w 15th st - Downtown Cheyenne - Former Union Pacific Depot Admission: Adults . . . $ 3.50 Children . . $ 1.50 Families . . $ 7.00 Contact: Robert Sherwood 2837 Olive Dr Cheyenne, Wy. 82001-5736 Vendors: Contact For Booth / Table Information I'm looking forward to seeing and visiting with all of you in july. Sincerely, Robert Sherwood, President Sherman Hill Model Railroad Club, Cheyenne, Wyoming Robert Sherwood, Cheyenne, Wyoming

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13854	From: IronHorse	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: Franklin loco

I have an Mogul loco model I made years ago. It is a plastic model only. Well detailed. 7/8 of an inch between the rails, so it is "S" scale at least. It is similar as the Franklin as Far as features go. But it is much smaller. The Franklin should be the same size. I believe the Franklin was offered after AC Gilbert died. He would have insisted that the loco was built to scale. If one of today's "S" manufactures offered a correct scale Franklin and Washington set it would probably sell quite well. I still think the "Flying Yankee" would sell quite well. For every person that says I am interested in buying one, there is another one that will also. He won't say so because he is waiting to see one. Some won't speak up because ----- They just won't A perfect example is; We have over 600 members in this forum. I bet we haven't heard from more than 100 of them on any topic. Which is fine. Reading the posts here is fun. There are a lot of "S" gaugers out there that aren't in this forum. I have meet a lot of them. A lot of them ask where they can get "S" trains. If any manufacturer wants their material (brochures) picked up at my museum send them along. I will be happy to recommend your product. But I need something to hand my customers to keep their interest after they get home. The buyers are there but they need to have the train under their nose before they show interest in buying. A lot of serious buyers won't respond to surveys. They will wait and buy when they see it. Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13855	From: JFrederick Roberts	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: Franklin loco

It seems to me that the Franklin set was what Contental Flyer was going to make. Of course they never did get started, but that was what they were showing as the planned first item. jfred --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13856	From: Doug Peck	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: Re: Gray Franklin

In line with all the Franklin discussion recently, here's a question with a twist. Does anyone have any solid information about a GRAY Franklin engine and tender??? This engine has the boiler and the tender top (both of which would normally be black) painted a deep gray color. The handrails are also mounted differently than the normal Franklins; instead of simple brass cotter pins, this engine has the same unique boiler rail clips that were used on "the First 50" Franklins. (BTW...No, this is NOT "One of the First 50".....I have one of those as well. There is no lettering inside the tender of this engine.) I have been told that this engine was marketed as "Old Smokey", which name I did find mentioned in one ACG catalog. But that's about all I know. Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@... VISA --MC--DISCOVER--AMEX--PAYPAL Accepted. -----Original Message----- From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com [mailto:S-Trains@yahoogroups.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 8:01 PM To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1072 S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ There are 25 messages in this issue. Topics in this digest: 1. Re: RE: The "FRANKLIN"...... From: WJJIM@... 2. Re: Franklin From: "David" <Dave0616@...> 3. Franklin then, how 'bout now... From: david_horn@... 4. Car numbers for LTI NP set From: Scott Holm <imsscott@...> 5. Re: RE: The "FRANKLIN"...... From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> 6. The Franklin From: TPDavis7@... 7. Power Station Model for 'S' From: jbs@... 8. Re: Car numbers for LTI NP set From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> 9. AC Gilbert Toys ??? From: IronHorse <cofa@...> 10. Let a child lead them From: Jacques Ollivier <ollivier@...> 11. no mail option From: jarcho@... 12. Re: AC Gilbert Toys ?? & the Scale/Toys feud From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> 13. rare & sharp gp 7 on e bay From: ronnat@... 14. Re: Digest Number 1071 From: Gerald R Dobbs <grdobbs@...> 15. Franklin and Bruce From: milayman@... 16. re: The Great Franklin/Washington Debate From: busyboy <busyboy@...> 17. Re: AC Gilbert Toys ??? From: Glenn Ritter <gartrain@...> 18. Re: AC Gilbert Toys ??? From: "David" <Dave0616@...> 19. AM HEAVY WTS From: anormal1@... 20. Re: Car numbers for LTI NP set From: busyboy <busyboy@...> 21. Re: Re: Car numbers for LTI NP set From: ironhors@... 22. Re: The Great Franklin/Washington Debate From: rgajnak@... 23. July Train Show/Swap Meet From: softmoods@... 24. Franklin loco From: IronHorse <cofa@...> 25. Franklin loco From: JFrederick Roberts <jfred436@...> ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 1 Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 07:23:17 EDT From: WJJIM@... Subject: Re: RE: The "FRANKLIN"...... The story goes that one of Gilbert's salesmen stopped in to see Ed Alexander, one of the founders of TCA and saw his model built on the Atlantic chassis. The salesman borrowed the engine from Ed and it ended up in production. The "cow on the track" came about in much the same way, from a hobby shop in Virginia, once again, the owner was affiliated with TCA. Jim Lyle [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 11:27:56 -0000 From: "David" <Dave0616@...> Subject: Re: Franklin First of all, Gilbert did nothing as far as weakening their line by using the Franklin loco and related cars. They didn't even design the Franklin or the cars. The Franklin type loco and cars were modeled by a scaler for use on his pike using an atlantic chassis as a basis, and streamlined passenger car trucks on the cars. I cannot recall who, but either Maury Romer or maybe Gabe visitied this person and saw this hand made set, loved it, and though it would make a perfect addition to the S line, and bought it so they could copy same and include it in the S line. Gilbert copied this model in making their tooling. So if its off slightly in size, its not Gilberts doing. The locos & sets obviously sold well, are handsome, and run fairly well. Thats all that counts. I am researching to find the literature on this as its been a while since I've read the article, but it was one of those maury Romer interviews. Second, whats with this zero gauge? Zero, 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9, S, O N, HO... who cares, face it, they are all TOYS, nothing more, nothing less. None are perfect 100% scale models no matter what advertisement scheme was used in the media, or catalogs. Lionel said the same things about their garbage, so did Ives, Marx, and many others. They are still toys, toys, toys... imperfect toys, nothing can change that fact. ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:05:22 -0400 From: david_horn@... Subject: Franklin then, how 'bout now... Hey, Franklin sets, like ACG's F-9's, are clearly (and arguably unfortunately) a departure from all the great "more realism" AF trains that preceded them, but just the same they are fun to own and operate. Less aware observers really like the colorful engine and charm of the old fashioned cars despite how disproportionate they are compared to a Hudson pulling streamlined cars passing by. What puzzles me is that with all the notoriety and popularity of this set, why hasn't a modern manufacture provided us one with more true to 1:64 scale dimensions and true to time period details? My guess is they'd sell out of sets and move a lot of extra coaches, etc. For us train fans, it would more gratifying to run than the original, and for passing observers probably more "cute" than ever. SHS, AM, PA Heritage, LTI (what am I nuts), MTH (still waiting) can you help us scratch this itch? PS Somewhere on the web, I came across an photo of the 1939 Worlds Fair with a streamlined Hudson or Pacific next to an American (Franklin type) wood burner. Both looked great, but you wouldn't believe how much smaller the 4-4-0's really are. The 21088 and 21089 are clearly way off for S-gauge, all the more s-scale. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 4 Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 07:00:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott Holm <imsscott@...> Subject: Car numbers for LTI NP set Can somebody tell me what the car numbers are in the LTI Northern Pacific set (49602)? Are they 48920,48921,48922,48923 and is there two of one of these, and if so, which one and what type is it? And if not, then what is the fifth car missing from the list? Are the extra cars that are sold seperately, the 48924 vista dome, the 48925 coach, and the 48934 diner? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 5 Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 07:05:29 -0700 From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> Subject: Re: RE: The "FRANKLIN"...... Chuck noted the re-tooling of the chassis, making the "axle bearings more accessible. Well, that retooling had little to do with the Franklin, and a lot to do with production costs. The "split Chassis" requires no axle hole drilling, the "holes" are just cast-in grooves. Also, the driver wheelsets can now be quartered and pre-assembled in bulk, and most of them used on any loco (except the Franklin and the Hudson, which used 1) red-center wheels, and 2) Hudson which used metal-tired wheels (usually!). BTW, the tires are the same as used on the Franklin--basically ACG just ran red plastic through the molds! This chassis change was one of the better thought-out cheapenings of the line, IMHO, as it doesn't seem to have effected performance. The beginning of the engineering failure of the AF line, I believe, is the Baldwin loco with a motor not engineered for the normal operating voltage of the rest of the train line. (but then my brother's 355 survived his and my playing) S' David D. ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 6 Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:13:13 EDT From: TPDavis7@... Subject: The Franklin Searched back into my memory, my wife says that I don't remember anything, but I have read an article in the past about the Franklin set. The story goes, that AF found out that Lionel was going to bring out there General set and AF needed to have a set to compete with the Lionel offering. There was a gentleman, E. P. Alexander, one of the founders of the TCA, I believe, who had taken an AF pre-war, 3/16" scale, O gauge, Atlantic, and made it into an American 4-4-0 with passenger cars. Some one from the AF factory contacted Mr. Alexander and bought his train set, which was built to O scale. The factory then made copies of Mr. Alexander's set for use on S gauge track. According to the article the factory reproduced the loco and car bodies just as Mr. Alexander had built them. The Franklin passenger cars are the only AF passenger car bodies not moulded in one piece. Included in the article were photos of the original set on Mr. Alexaner's home layout and also an industral espionage photo of the Lionel pilot model of the General, taken by an AF spy! Tom(Mr. Memory) Davis, Charlotte,NC [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 7 Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 09:24:07 -0500 From: jbs@... Subject: Power Station Model for 'S' Anyone know of a great looking electric utility power station kit? Thanks in advance for any info ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 8 Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 07:12:51 -0700 From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> Subject: Re: Car numbers for LTI NP set Scott, The 8924 vista-dome came in the set, the 8925 coach was the extra car, and a few years later, when LTI made the diner mold, they painted some NP(8934), which is why it is out of the number series. There was also the Railsounds equipped B unit 8117, so you could have a train w/ ABBA and 7 cars--it's a monster of a train! S' David D. ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 9 Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:52:37 -0400 From: IronHorse <cofa@...> Subject: AC Gilbert Toys ??? To me a toy is a plaything you buy and can afford to throw away when it is broken or you are tired of it. AC made toys but I wouldn't put most of his trains in that class. His "Toy trains" were the low quality cheepy trains. The others are models. Who of you would consider throwing away your trains when they are broken ??? Not one of you would even consider it because it is a valuable model. The end of the AC Gilbert line was caused by one thing. AC Gilbert died. His son either did not care about quality or had no business sense and therefore cheapened the line. He died a few years after his father. The next people in charge were worse yet at running the company. Then along came slot cars in the early 60s. The kids wanted the cars over trains because the cars were extremely fast. The Gilbert company joined the slot car crowd with a major error. The Gilbert slot cars were junk. AC Gilbert would have made the best slot cars if he was alive at that time. The income from from that would have kept the company stable until the slot car fad died out. The last of Gilbert trains were junk. With a few exceptions. The 19 inch radius kept a lot of guys from buying the pike master track. Some of the rolling stock and locos would hit the switch machines. The track however, looked great. While I am on this subject. You guys out there making the real good "S" trains. I hope you have a provision in your will to keep the product going and the quality there, so my grandchildren can buy good quality trains. I hate to see a good line die with the owner. Roger Hinds Swing and Sway the "S" gauge way. ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 10 Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:18:51 -0700 From: Jacques Ollivier <ollivier@...> Subject: Let a child lead them For his 5th birthday I let my then 5 year old pick any set that I owned for his Christmas present. Did he pick my Northern? a Pacific, an 0-8-0 switcher, or my New Haven AA set like I feared? Nope, No contest! He picked the Franklin set. There's something there. Then again, I like my Flyer F-9. P.S. Send me that unwanted pikemaster stuff all you true-to-scale guys hate so much. We'll give it a happy home. Have a happy day! Jacques ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 11 Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 11:29:14 -0400 From: jarcho@... Subject: no mail option Gentlemen, i am going to turn on the no mail option for a few days. That means I won't be getting any postings. if anyone wants to communicate, please email me directly. I'll try to check my email a couple of times a day. Tom Jarcho ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 12 Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 08:35:54 -0700 From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> Subject: Re: AC Gilbert Toys ?? & the Scale/Toys feud Roger has some good points, and I'm playing hooky taking time to expand on them, or add to them?? One can't help but notice the fervor that shows up when the discussion of the future of S comes up. Some wish that the AF name never be associated with S, 'cause, "We're serious modelers!" Others argue that AF type stuff is the future of S, "get them hooked, then convert them to scale modelers" is their cry. Well, I'm not about to step into that fray, but it suddenly dawned on me where the passion may be originating. Many of us, in our younger days, touted the superiority of "our" trains over "the others" because we ran on two rail track, and our trains were SCALE models, not fore-shortened caricatures (OK, we now know the passenger cars aren't full length, oh well. . . .). And ACG touted the scale nature of his trains, even showing how to build a real model railroad with them, including building company layouts with realism in mind. I suspect it is that early mind-set that gets us going, "how DARE they say my AF isn't realistic!!" Well, for it's time it really was. Nowadays, it's just close, and better detailing is available by the new companies. I hafta get to work, have fun with your trains! S' David D. ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 13 Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 16:04:48 -0000 From: ronnat@... Subject: rare & sharp gp 7 on e bay really what is this hobby coming to ? at last check this eng. was over $ 1,000 . is this eng, that rare? if so I will be retireing soon as I have bunch of these. ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 14 Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:36:06 -0600 From: Gerald R Dobbs <grdobbs@...> Subject: Re: Digest Number 1071 Recently we have seen a Sn3 old timer loco and cars on the market, I don't recall the manufacture, maybe Atlas? and it was running on HO track 5/8" between the rails, an 1/8" too narrow, but it looked good. Jerry 77-11644 ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 15 Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 12:48:57 EDT From: milayman@... Subject: Franklin and Bruce Bruce Manson is a S gauger. Bruce has a great S-gauge collection and a huge layout. Bruce says the standard gauge collection and layout belongs to Anna, his wife. Their toy collection is one of the best I have ever seen. It was truly an honor to meet Bruce and Anna. They are always at York. As editor of the TCA Quarterly, they have made a significant contribution to train collecting. They are good people. The Franklin (with associated rolling stock) is an important part of the American Flyer (Gilbert) collection. Because of the two step reversing unit, big smoke stack that smokes good, and the multiple colors, the Franklin consist in front of the Mystic train station is always ready to help young ones experience running their first train. The joy is unbelievable. It is not important that the Franklin is not prefect. The best example of the Franklin success is the number of times young visitors ask to run the Franklin, again. Marvin ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 16 Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 13:06:33 -0400 From: busyboy <busyboy@...> Subject: re: The Great Franklin/Washington Debate Chuck F. You GO brother! Defend your point. Whoo, can you see my house from up there? I have often wondered why Gilbert did not scale the Frontier locos down. They would have been so huge in 1:1! Stand one next to a Hudson to see what I mean. However, that's where the answer lies. When you stand the Franklin next to other Gilbert engines, it is roughly the same size. You buy 1/64th cars for your layout, don't you? Ever notice that Hot Wheels sports cars seem right but trucks, step vans, and big suburbans seem small? That's because the manufacturer is appealing to the child's hand size. Mattel is not concerned that you need scale models for your pike. There is an emotional component, too. That's why Beanie Babies are all the same size whether they are representing a house cat or a whale. The reason manufacturers feel they can violate these relative size differences is because . . . they are making toys. A.C. Gilbert was no longer the boss when the Franklin came out. The company was already sliding from the semi-scale milieu to the toy world. Soon they would make those wonderful F units. If they made the Franklin to scale, it would have appeared to the general public to be an HO train. Next to a 1940's streamliner, a frontier American 4-4-0 looks like a miniature. Gilbert was already making an HO line. The marketing disaster that would have resulted from the size confusion would only have served to accelerate the company's decline. To this day, people outside this hobby, when recalling the trains of their youth, seem compelled to remark on the heft, the weight of those big locos. Size does matter, and to the uninitiated, the scale differences matter very little. When you are selling to the parents of kids, you don't sell scale realism. You sell more bang for the buck. A miniature engine and cars might have been seen as cute or precious by some and scale by others, but the vast majority of potential buyers would have thought it wasn't worth the money. The irony is, most people would also have though that a true 1/64 th. Franklin set wasn't in scale with the rest of their Flyer trains! In terms of marketing toys, this was one Gilbert Co. decision that was right on the mark. You could, of course, buy an HO Franklin and convert it to S gauge! Two to go, Chris Zizzo ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 17 Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 13:32:28 -0400 From: Glenn Ritter <gartrain@...> Subject: Re: AC Gilbert Toys ??? We all know that many broken AF train sets were thrown away from 1950 to 1990. Today there are still a few broken pieces available but what has survived is in good to VG condition. Sorry but Gilbert products were toys to most of us in the 50s. Glenn IronHorse wrote: To me a toy is a plaything you buy and can afford to throw away when it is broken or you are tired of it. AC made toys but I wouldn't put most of his trains in that class. His "Toy trains" were the low quality cheepy trains. The others are models. Who of you would consider throwing away your trains when they are broken ??? Not one of you would even consider it because it is a valuable model. The end of the AC Gilbert line was caused by one thing. AC Gilbert died. His son either did not care about quality or had no business sense and therefore cheapened the line. He died a few years after his father. The next people in charge were worse yet at running the company. Then along came slot cars in the early 60s. The kids wanted the cars over trains because the cars were extremely fast. The Gilbert company joined the slot car crowd with a major error. The Gilbert slot cars were junk. AC Gilbert would have made the best slot cars if he was alive at that time. The income from from that would have kept the company stable until the slot car fad died out. The last of Gilbert trains were junk. With a few exceptions. The 19 inch radius kept a lot of guys from buying the pike master track. Some of the rolling stock and locos would hit the switch machines. The track however, looked great. While I am on this subject. You guys out there making the real good "S" trains. I hope you have a provision in your will to keep the product going and the quality there, so my grandchildren can buy good quality trains. I hate to see a good line die with the owner. Roger Hinds ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 18 Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 18:41:21 -0000 From: "David" <Dave0616@...> Subject: Re: AC Gilbert Toys ??? > The end of the AC Gilbert line was caused by one thing. AC Gilbert died. > His son either did not care about quality or had no business sense and therefore > cheapened the line. > He died a few years after his father. The next people in charge were worse yet > at running the company. True, the company was hurt terribly by A.C.'s death and hence the loss of his direction. But the brother had nothing to do with it, as the family was forced to sell the company off due to tax problems. The next people in charge had no clue about quality, and tried to cut corners and use gimicks in a time when competition was tough. ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 19 Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 16:26:24 EDT From: anormal1@... Subject: AM HEAVY WTS Any coments pro or con as to the AM UP Heavy wt. sets....I am planing on buying a set and rember some talk about them on this list....Are they the right era for a 336???Thanks.....Mike PS everyone that helped test the smokefluid should be seeing the final product in your mail today or tomorrow Thanks Again for the help...Please let me know what you think of this latest offeringbefore I run any ads....The planed price will be $6.00 +$2.00 s&h for the 2oz size ( The ones I sent are FREE to you guys that I mailed them to) ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 20 Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 16:48:39 -0400 From: busyboy <busyboy@...> Subject: Re: Car numbers for LTI NP set David Dewey, putting down his mesmerizing railroad watch so he could type, wrote: >you could have a train w/ ABBA and 7 >cars--it's a monster of a train! This is what I did with the UP Pony Express. It is ABBA plus two UP headend cars plus the 4 cars, the diner, the extra 2 coaches, and 7 American models heavyweights including the three long extras. Now that is a monster train! Chris Z. ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 21 Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 16:36:40 -0500 From: ironhors@... Subject: Re: Re: Car numbers for LTI NP set busyboy wrote: > David Dewey, putting down his mesmerizing railroad watch so he could type, > wrote: > >you could have a train w/ ABBA and 7 > >cars--it's a monster of a train! > > This is what I did with the UP Pony Express. It is ABBA plus two UP headend > cars plus the 4 cars, the diner, the extra 2 coaches, and 7 American models > heavyweights including the three long extras. Now that is a monster train! > > Chris Z. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ How about the one running at S Spree. A-B-A NYC PAs, two brass hwt baggs, A-M Budd set with at least 3 extra coaches. ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 22 Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 22:11:01 -0000 From: rgajnak@... Subject: Re: The Great Franklin/Washington Debate Chris Zizzo wrote: >You could, of course, buy an HO Franklin and convert it to S gauge! Well, not really. The HO Franklin was made for Gilbert by Manuta and was essentially a modiified version of their "General" locomotive. The Mantua General was/is a very small locomotive in HO. It is dwarfed by a HO boxcar. Be seeing you... Rich G. ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 23 Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 16:24:56 -0600 From: softmoods@... Subject: July Train Show/Swap Meet Hi All, This will be the final post about the Sherman Hill Model Railroad club's Train Show this comming weekend. Please pass the Notice below on to other E-Mail Lists: Sorry for the possible double posts. Sherman Hill Model Railroad Club will be hosting a Model Railroad Show / Swap meet and Afternoon of Railfanning, in Cheyenne, Wyoming. Details of show are below: Date: 14 July 2001 Saturday Time: 9:00am - 12:00am Railfanning: Follows Train Show / Swap Meet and Lunch or after lunch 1:30pm Tour the Former Union Pacific Depot and/or The Union Pacific Steam Shops . Limited Number to go ($ 5.00 Club Donation) (NOTE: First Come, First Serve on UP Steam Shop Tour) Location: 121 w 15th st - Downtown Cheyenne - Former Union Pacific Depot Admission: Adults . . . $ 3.50 Children . . $ 1.50 Families . . $ 7.00 Contact: Robert Sherwood 2837 Olive Dr Cheyenne, Wy. 82001-5736 Vendors: Contact For Booth / Table Information I'm looking forward to seeing and visiting with all of you in july. Sincerely, Robert Sherwood, President Sherman Hill Model Railroad Club, Cheyenne, Wyoming Robert Sherwood, Cheyenne, Wyoming ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 24 Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 19:22:41 -0400 From: IronHorse <cofa@...> Subject: Franklin loco I have an Mogul loco model I made years ago. It is a plastic model only. Well detailed. 7/8 of an inch between the rails, so it is "S" scale at least. It is similar as the Franklin as Far as features go. But it is much smaller. The Franklin should be the same size. I believe the Franklin was offered after AC Gilbert died. He would have insisted that the loco was built to scale. If one of today's "S" manufactures offered a correct scale Franklin and Washington set it would probably sell quite well. I still think the "Flying Yankee" would sell quite well. For every person that says I am interested in buying one, there is another one that will also. He won't say so because he is waiting to see one. Some won't speak up because ----- They just won't A perfect example is; We have over 600 members in this forum. I bet we haven't heard from more than 100 of them on any topic. Which is fine. Reading the posts here is fun. There are a lot of "S" gaugers out there that aren't in this forum. I have meet a lot of them. A lot of them ask where they can get "S" trains. If any manufacturer wants their material (brochures) picked up at my museum send them along. I will be happy to recommend your product. But I need something to hand my customers to keep their interest after they get home. The buyers are there but they need to have the train under their nose before they show interest in buying. A lot of serious buyers won't respond to surveys. They will wait and buy when they see it. Roger ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 25 Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 17:00:54 -0700 (PDT) From: JFrederick Roberts <jfred436@...> Subject: Franklin loco It seems to me that the Franklin set was what Contental Flyer was going to make. Of course they never did get started, but that was what they were showing as the planned first item. jfred --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13857	From: Walt Danylak	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: Re: Franklin loco

--- In S-Trains@y..., IronHorse <cofa@t...> wrote: ... I still think the "Flying Yankee" would sell quite well. The Flying Yankee and Burlington Zepher was proposed about a year(?) ago by Sunset (3rd Rail). The project was cancelled for lack of orders. I'm not sure if a hi-rail version was being proposed or not. Granted, this was a brass model, but I don't think you'll ever this train in diecast or plastic in S unless SHS or AM decides to offer it. Walt Danylak

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13858	From: Walt Danylak	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: Re: The Franklin

--- In S-Trains@y..., TPDavis7@a... wrote: Searched back into my memory, my wife says that I don't remember anything, but I have read an article in the past about the Franklin set. The story goes, that AF found out that Lionel was going to bring out there General set and AF needed to have a set to compete with the Lionel offering. There was a gentleman, E. P. Alexander, one of the founders of the TCA, I believe, who had taken an AF pre-war, 3/16" scale, O gauge, Atlantic, and made it into an American 4-4-0 with passenger cars. Some one from the AF factory contacted Mr. Alexander and bought his train set, which was built to O scale. The factory then made copies of Mr. Alexander's set for use on S gauge track. According to the article the factory reproduced the loco and car bodies just as Mr. Alexander had built them. The Franklin passenger cars are the only AF passenger car bodies not moulded in one piece. Included in the article were photos of the original set on Mr. Alexaner's home layout and also an industral espionage photo of the Lionel pilot model of the General, taken by an AF spy! Tom(Mr. Memory) Davis, Charlotte,NC Tom, I heard the story more or less the same except that AF had the idea first. The set was designed Ed Alexander, but at Gilbert's request. Lionel may have had the idea first, but Gilbert ran a full page ad in either the January 1959 issue of Model Railroader or Model Trains announcing the train. Does anyone know if Lionel showed their General at the February 1959 Toy Show in New York? Also, don't forget Marx. They also offered an "old-timer" set. The Marx set in many way was closer to S than the AF set. Walt Danylak

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13859	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: Re: Franklin then, how 'bout now...

Actually the 4-4-0 was a very popular and long lasting wheel arangement for most railroads in US and Canada. The Canadians kept a group of 3 in service over in New Brunswick until the dieselization was basically complete. I know at least 2 of these still exist. # 136 was being used in rail fan service and # 127 is now supposed to be sitting in front of Canadian Pacific headquaters. THe Pennsy kept a few around for service on the delmarva branch and # 1223 ended up as the main stay of power on the Strasburg R.R. until it was retired and positioned at the main entrance to the train hall in the railroad Museum of PA. These are just the ones I have ridden. I know there are many more! So, if PHM were to be interested in scratching the itch, would it be an old wood burner or a modernized, great looking little engine that could? The question stands. Let us know which way it should be and we will talk! ----- Original Message ----- From: <david_horn@...> To: <S-trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 9:05 AM Subject: [S-Trains] Franklin then, how 'bout now... > Hey, Franklin sets, ....... My guess is they'd sell out of sets and move a lot of extra > coaches, etc. For us train fans, it would more gratifying to run than the > original, and for passing observers probably more "cute" than ever. SHS, > AM, PA Heritage, LTI (what am I nuts), MTH (still waiting) can you help us > scratch this itch? > > PS Somewhere on the web, I came across an photo of the 1939 Worlds Fair > with a streamlined Hudson or Pacific next to an American (Franklin type) > wood burner. Both looked great, but you wouldn't believe how much smaller > the 4-4-0's really are. The 21088 and 21089 are clearly way off for > S-gauge, all the more s-scale. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13860	From: belairchevy@webtv.net	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: Re: 60's Flyer...was it junk?

I was 10 years old in 1965 and the first train set I got was an All Aboard set. Over the next few years that poor old set got quite a workout, had a couple of switch panels added to it, and an upgraded 21168 smoke and choo choo locomotive. Was it junk?...Not to me or my brother. In fact several kids in the old neighborhood had them. The train set was around until the early 1980's when my mom cleaned out the basement and sent the trains, slotcars, G.I.Joes, baseball cards etc. to the Goodwill! About 1995 I decided to try and replace the old All Aboard set and ended up with all kinds of All Aboard stuff. Is it junk? Maybe to you but not to me. Lots of neat memories are associated with it. Pikemaster and All Aboard may not be the most popular of the AF line to collect, but they have their place. There is a nice Pikemaster/All Aboard group on Yahoo at: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/allaboardsets Bradley D. Eggeman Denver, Colorado [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13861	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1072

In a message dated 07/10/2001 8:30:45 PM Mountain Daylight Time, S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes: > Scott, > The 8924 vista-dome came in the set, the 8925 coach was the extra car, > and a few years later, when LTI made the diner mold, they painted some > NP(8934), which is why it is out of the number series. There was also the > Railsounds equipped B unit 8117, so you could have a train w/ ABBA and 7 > cars--it's a monster of a train! > S' > David D. > > > > David is right and I have this exact setup. You can see it running on the Rocky Mountain Hi-Railers layout on my S-Gauge video volume 1. It's almost 13 feet long. Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13862	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 7/10/2001
Subject: Re: The Great Franklin/Washington Debate

Chris Zizzo wrote: >Chuck F. >You GO brother! Defend your point. Whoo, can you see my house from >up there? I do see a round house. (Or should I say "roundhouse"?) Is that yours? You know, it's amazing the trouble one can get into just expressing an opinion on a "discussion" board. But, we ARE having a discussion! LOL! Didn't somebody say something about not wanting to open a "can of worms"? Too late! And, did you notice how that my own effort to avoid the volatile and irrelevant "they're just TOYS" issue-(I KNOW that!)-completely failed? Truth be told, I don't begrudge anyone their own preferences, nor would I belittle them. God bless all you folks who don't care so much how correctly scaled your toy trains are. It means a lot more "S gauge history" in the form of Franklins and Pikemaster will be preserved. To paraphrase another post, You GO boys! :^) (BTW, I do, of course, expect the same courtesy toward my own more scale preferences.) It is ironic that the "they're-just-TOYS-no-matter-what- size-they-are" point was tossed my way, since I have leveled that very point toward more than one nose-high, tinplate poo-pooing, time table following, rivet-counting HO gauger myself! Well, that'll teach me. The point I attempted to make actually had not so much to do with the choices of any S gauger, and certainly had nothing to do with the trains being toys AS OPPOSED TO models. Whatever our own preferences, it is a fact that A.C. GILBERT intended AF trains to be models as well as toys. The point was (partly) that A.C. Gilbert began his toy train line with a great (for a toy, anyway) vision. That vision was to make toy trains that were also good models. Not "perfect" models (I'm aware that none are, ultimately), but much BETTER models than any other company had attempted while still retaining the "toy" function in their product. In doing so, he took great risks. The decision to market toys that were also accurate MODELS in 1/64th scale on two rail track was bold, brilliant and very risky. It really bucked the system. Why would a level-headed businessman like Gilbert take such a risk? Because he believed in the concept. That is remarkable! Even though A.C. was NOT a hobbyist, NOT a model railroader, he was nevertheless a believer in S gauge 1/64th scale, model/toy trains. It was THAT vision that saved American Flyer from becoming just another defunct toy train line in 1938. THAT vision propelled AF until... until the late '50s, when the foundational concept of scale realism suffered its first major compromise. Yes, as I noted before, there were many other factors involved as well. But it is my opinion that AF would have had a much better shot at surviving "the slot car dark ages" etc. if the foundations of A.C.'s original vision had been adhered to. I just can't help finding it sad that it wasn't. Gilbert (the company) lost the vision, and that is, quite simply, very sad. Added to that, I suppose I'm a little surprised to find a few S gaugers that lost the vision too. But that's their choice. (See above.) >In terms of marketing toys, this was one Gilbert Co. decision that >was right on the mark. In the short term, maybe. It was certainly expedient. In the long term, it provedto be (along with some other decisions), fatal. Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13863	From: Walt Danylak	Date: 7/11/2001
Subject: Re: 290 ebay ad Update

--- In S-Trains@y..., "Scott Brown" <sbrown56@e...> wrote: I was laughing pretty good by the end of this ad. How many "rare", "powerful", "1949" can you find? LOL. And just think...after this auction, you may never see another 290 for sale !!! LOL Enjoy !! I guess we missed our chance to own the "rare 290" as well the as "common 290". Both where sold to the same person (grodhi 96792). The "rare version" cost him $142.50 while he purchased the "common version" for $76.50. Walt Danylak

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13864	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 7/11/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1071

Gerald R Dobbs wrote: Recently we have seen a Sn3 old timer loco and cars on the market, I don't recall the manufacture, maybe Atlas? and it was running on HO track 5/8" between the rails, an 1/8" too narrow, but it looked good. I think you may be referring to the Bachmann On30 stuff, some of which can be converted to S standard gauge with a little (and sometimes a lot of) work. It's nice stuff, runs well, looks good, relatively inexpensive, but unfortunately not S. Rich G. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13865	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 7/11/2001
Subject: Old-Time Train Espionage

The gentleman that Tom Davis referred to is Frank Edgecombe. He was employed by Gilbert at that time and made a lunch-time espionage run to the Lionel factory. Gilbert had heard that Lionel was developing an old-time loco, and wanted to see what it looked like. Frank was able to bring back some pictures. This episode appears in the foreward/opening piece to one of the Greenberg AF guides. I ran into Frank several years ago at a GATS Show in Hampton, Virginia. Frank was close to retirement at that time and indicated that perhaps after retirement he might provide some information for an article about his experiences with the A.C. Gilbert Company. I am attempting to get back in touch with him. Joe ===== Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,300 part lines American Models ## S-Helper Service ## Gilbert Rerpoductions Featuring Parts by Toy Trains International joestrainrepair@... Master Card/Visa __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13866	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 7/11/2001
Subject: The Great Franklin/Washington Debate

As you all know I am working on the data from the NASG survey sheets. An interesting point is emerging. Since the last survey in 1989 when hi-rail was not a coined word, we now have almost as many hi-railers as AF operators. Hi-rail is more scale in appearence than AF and has larger couplers than scale to link with AF and run on higher than code 100 track. All that to say the toy image will always be with us but most buyers today prefer a more realistic look than Gilbert's later "Toy Trains". So let's push for Brio and Thomas in "S" and then get them over to hi-rail "S". Staying on the NPSG branchline of NASG track, Glenn Chris Zizzo wrote: >Chuck F. >You GO brother! Defend your point. Whoo, can you see my house from >up there? I do see a round house. (Or should I say "roundhouse"?) Is that yours? You know, it's amazing the trouble one can get into just expressing an opinion on a "discussion" board. But, we ARE having a discussion! LOL! Didn't somebody say something about not wanting to open a "can of worms"? Too late!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13867	From: Scott Holm	Date: 7/11/2001
Subject: Rare and sharp 375 on Ebay

I see that there was a bid retraction on this so it's under $1000 now. The retraction says that the TM book says these are easily faked. He also made another bid and retracted it so he could further express his opinion. Is a real 375 rare? http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1615164531 http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=1615164531 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13868	From: Scott Brown	Date: 7/11/2001
Subject: Re: Franklin Engine

I just want to say how much I have enjoyed this current discussion about the Franklin engine. I did not know the story of how it came to be and found it very interesting. I'm also thankful that we haven't seen any real flaming in this discussion. This is a great list and I've learned so much in the few years I have been here. Thanks for all the great info. Personally, I really love watching my Franklin run around the track. It is my 11 y/o son's favorite. Now, if I could just find (and be able to afford) a Washington set. That would really look cool with both of them running at the same time. Scott Brown Atlantic Coast S Gaugers Washington & Old Dominion Division

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13869	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 7/11/2001
Subject: Re: Franklin then, how 'bout now...

My first preference would be one authentic to being a wood burner with all the color and bright trim of one like that on display at the RR Museum of PA. I think a lot of the allure of the original ACG Franklin is in fact how with it stands out from all the other engines with its bright and "brassy" look compared to the work-horse black of the Atlantics, Pacifics, etc. My understanding is that the railroads deliberately made their trains of the time flashy with ornate trim and attractive colors to attract passenger business, much the way later streamlining was used to distinguish flagship passenger trains such as the Twentieth Century, Royal Blue, etc. PS If I'm not mistaken, these American class 4-4-0's were capable of some pretty impressive speeds (i.e. 100+ mph) so don't be shy about giving it plenty of top end scale speed. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: Thomas@... [mailto:Thomas@...] Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2001 10:42 PM To: S-trains@yahoogroups.com; david_horn@... Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Franklin then, how 'bout now... Actually the 4-4-0 was a very popular and long lasting wheel arangement for most railroads in US and Canada. The Canadians kept a group of 3 in service over in New Brunswick until the dieselization was basically complete. I know at least 2 of these still exist. # 136 was being used in rail fan service and # 127 is now supposed to be sitting in front of Canadian Pacific headquaters. THe Pennsy kept a few around for service on the delmarva branch and # 1223 ended up as the main stay of power on the Strasburg R.R. until it was retired and positioned at the main entrance to the train hall in the railroad Museum of PA. These are just the ones I have ridden. I know there are many more! So, if PHM were to be interested in scratching the itch, would it be an old wood burner or a modernized, great looking little engine that could? The question stands. Let us know which way it should be and we will talk! > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13870	From: ronnat@cros.net	Date: 7/11/2001
Subject: Bachman On 30 eng.

while this eng. is a good looker after convetring 2 of them to S standard I will tell you that the motor's in these are minimal at best . probably ok to use as intended. but when changing to S & trying to pull S cars the motor is not up to it . will be working on this might try a can motor in the tender. more on this later. RON

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13871	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 7/11/2001
Subject: PA Museum woodie

It might be the engine getting referred to that is in the RR Museum of PA is actually a 2-6-0 not a 4-4-0 as evidenced by the text and attached photo below from http://www.rrmuseumpa.org/musviews/musviews3.htm, but the point remains, an attractive AF-compatible 1:64 wood burner would be fun to have. But, please, give it enough power, speed, and smoke to get our AF-days adrenalin flowing. Thank you. Occupying a choice corner in the new Railroaders Hall is our oldest locomotive, the Tahoe. Built in 1875 in Philadelphia, it pulls a Civil War vintage Cumberland Valley Railroad combine car. Next to it is a Pennsylvania Railroad G5 steam locomotive. <<ftahoe[1].jpg>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13872	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 7/11/2001
Subject: Re: Rare and sharp 375 on Ebay

In a message dated 7/11/01 9:52:11 AM Eastern Daylight Time, imsscott@... writes: << The retraction says that the TM book** says these are easily faked. He also made another bid and retracted it so he could further express his opinion. Is a real 375 rare? >> Greenberg Vol. 1 states this problem, as well. A genuine 375 in the GM demonstrator color scheme in superior condition is a tough bird to come by. The reason that I entered this comment in our guide is that all of the "bits" are out there to "manufacture" 375s. The going prices are high enough that someone might be tempted to "go into business", so to speak. The airchime whistle pieces can be added to a 371 on which number boards have been swapped from the more common TP 375. There are fakes out in circulation and this situation raises the concern that one of them could resurface. The shell interior of a genuine 1953 375 should be stamped Apr or May 1953 (among other things). Caution must be exercised in purchasing a 375. The one on ebay could be perfectly legit, but closer examination would be required to be absolutely sure. This is one of those instances were ebay may not be the ideal venue for the consumation of a deal unless there is an understanding up front between buyer and seller. RB ** Blatant Advertisement: One of the many reasons -- along with being able to determine the numbers of the LTI NP passenger cars and other nifty Gilbert AF info -- to own your very own copy of the TM Books American Flyer S Gauge Guide and History! :-))

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13873	From: Craig S. O'Connell	Date: 7/11/2001
Subject: Weathering Ties

Hi Folks, There are some really fine pics of how ties are weathered that have been added to the S Scale Model Railroading Homepage: http://trainweb.com/crocon/strack.html The photos, of work done by S Scaler Terry Harrison, show how one can achieve a very realistic effect using an exacto knife and some paint. Check it out. Craig S. O'Connell

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13874	From: IronHorse	Date: 7/11/2001
Subject: Re: Weathering Ties

To weather and stain ties I use the filth I clean my brushes in. That dirty grime makes the ties look very realistic. I make my own ties. After cutting them to length I will take a handful of ties put them in metal window screen and dip them in the dirty brush cleaner. Then i spread them out on news paper to dry Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13875	From: Walt Danylak	Date: 7/12/2001
Subject: Re: AM HEAVY WTS

--- In S-Trains@y..., anormal1@a... wrote: Any coments pro or con as to the AM UP Heavy wt. sets....I am planing on buying a set and rember some talk about them on this list....Are they the right era for a 336???Thanks.....Mike Mike, The only complaint I ever heard about the cars was that the first group had some problems with the trucks, but I think that was corrected. As for the cars themselves, Don of SHS was involved in their production. Nothing else needs to be said. Our local club (CNYSGA) have run the cars with just about every steam engine AF made, with no real problems. I think you'll be pleased with the cars. As for using them with the 336, they're a natural match for the 336. Walt Danylak

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13876	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 7/12/2001
Subject: Franklin/Washington

Here's a picture of a 4-4-0 that is decorated much like the ACG Washington. I took this at a Reenactment of the "Golden Spike" ceremony in Utah in 1999 Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13877	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 7/12/2001
Subject: A Letter From Lionel

<printed on Lionel letterhead> July 3, 2001 Mark B. Preman Mark B. Preman Enterprises, Inc. P.O. Box 691895 Orlando, FL 32869-1895 Dear Mr. Preman: I am the licensing and communications manager at Lionel, LLC. Hence, I am heavily involved with our intellectual property matters. Lionel owns a number of U.S. Trademark Registrations together with U.S. Trademark Applications. Including U.S. Registration No. 2,194,149 for the mark GILBERT and U.S. Trademark application No. 76/130,680 for the mark A.C. GILBERT CO. It has come to our attention that you are using both the mark "GILBERT" and "A.C. GILBERT CO." to sell shirts. Your use of the marks GILBERT and A.C. GILBERT CO. violates the Lionel trademarks and section 43(a) of the Lanham Act (15 U.S.C. I 125(a)). Violations of the Lanham Act can result in both monetary and equitable relief including discouragements and profits, attorney's fees and injunctions. We trust that you will voluntarily cease and desist using the marks GILBERT and A.C. GILBERT CO. as to avoid any unnecessary litigation. Please confirm within the next two weeks that you have discontinued use of the marks in question. Very truly yours, LIONEL, LLC <signed> Julie A. Laird Licensing & Communications Manager

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13878	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 7/12/2001
Subject: A Letter To Lionel

<printed on AmericanFlyerTrains.com letterhead> Mark B. Preman Enterprises, Inc. P.O. Box 691895 Orlando, FL 32869-1895 407-345-1682 July 10, 2001 Julie A Laird Licensing & Communications Manager Lionel, LLC 50625 Richard W. Boulevard Chesterfield. MI 48051-2493 Dear Ms. Laird, I am in receipt of your July 3 letter. Be advised, that as of this writing, I have removed the shirts from my website and am returning them to the vendor pursuant to Lionel's request. Now that I have your attention, though, I have a serious question to ask as proven by the success of folks like American Models and. S Helper Service and, my own website, how come all Lionel ever wants to do is kill activity in this substantial community? I can understand you wanting to limit competition, but you just stifle others and then never bring anything to the market yourselves. You could have a large loyal following if you treated the American Flyer collector community with just a litt1e respect and there is an entire "scale" group out there that would absolutely love some new products. Come on, you own the trademarks, the tooling, and the capacity to feed a huge upwardly mobile community. If you are not going to bring American Flyer "stuff" to the market place, let someone else do it! How do we begin the discussion of you licensing others to create products to feed the growing S community. You are missing out on some serious bucks! For supposedly savvy train people you sure have missed the boat! <signed> Mark B. Preman President, Mark B. Preman Enterprises, Inc. AMERICANFL YERTRAINS. COM

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13879	From: busyboy	Date: 7/12/2001
Subject: Re: Rare and sharp 375 on Ebay

Scott Holm asks: >Is a real 375 rare? It is rarer than a 370 or 371. Is anything that was mass produced actually rare in the sense of antique rareness? Very little. There are some important points to consider in this auction. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1615164531 One is that the seller put the diesel up at $24 and the bidders brought it up to these levels. He can set the reserve at a million. No one knows where it is. This is free will at work. Secondly, the bidders are some of the most knowledgeable collectors who buy up tons of Flyer on eBay. I noticed Paulthepro is among the bidders. So is sgauge1 and pfstrains. You see these names all the time. They must know something! Rare is a word that gets bandied about too much. Scarce is probably a better substitute. If something was made in limited numbers or if some circumstance caused a large amount of production to be destroyed, then examples are scarce. The simple laws of supply and demand tell us that the price will rise due to competition for a short supply. Rare? Nahh! This is a common as dirt GEEP chassis with a horn. The body is a common Flyer GP-7 GM demonstrator. The hard parts to find are the numberboards. The numbers on this model don't look like the numbers on my 370. Mine are smaller and san-serif. That does not make it a fake, however. Gilbert did use other typefaces on numberboards through the years. You have got to KNOW that the boards and the date inside are genuine, and that the chassis is original. Otherwise, you are throwing a thousand bucks away on a doctored up hundred dollar engine. Two to go (and buy 2, count 'em, TWO, S-helper F-3 AB sets; that's an ABBA set in one roadname, for the same money as this BORING diesel with a bicycle horn), Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13880	From: LocoWorksJB@aol.com	Date: 7/12/2001
Subject: A letter from Lionel

It must be the season. I have just finished an unpleasant discussion with a major aircraft manufacturer, because I identified one of their aircraft in my catalog, as a B.....B-...F.....F........ I used to manufacture model airplane kits and plans, mostly of WW2, Korean, and Vietnam vintage. I guess I was supposed to identify the airplane as a famous WW2 bomber, with an asterisk, explaining that if I identified the maker, and ident number, I could be sued. I am in complete agreement with Paul Yorke, and could not have put it any better. In my opinion, this stuff is all lawyer generated greed on the part of these manufacturers. Why can't they accept their fame gracefully, and help us out, instead of errecting stone walls, too high to climb? And, another thought, the military airplanes these aircraft companies built, do not belong to them. The belong to the American people, sometimes known as tax payers. John Bell

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13881	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 7/12/2001
Subject: Re: A Letter To Lionel

Paul Yorke wrote: > <printed on AmericanFlyerTrains.com letterhead> > Mark B. Preman Enterprises, Inc. P.O. Box 691895 Orlando, FL 32869-1895 > 407-345-1682 > > July 10, 2001 > > Julie A Laird > Licensing & Communications Manager > Lionel, LLC > 50625 Richard W. Boulevard > Chesterfield. MI 48051-2493 > > Dear Ms. Laird, > > I am in receipt of your July 3 letter. > > Be advised, that as of this writing, I have removed the shirts from my > website and am returning them to the > vendor pursuant to Lionel's request. > > Now that I have your attention, though, I have a serious question to ask > as proven by the success of folks > like American Models and. S Helper Service and, my own website, how come > all Lionel ever wants to do is kill activity in this substantial > community? I can understand you wanting to limit competition, but you > just stifle others and then never bring anything to the market > yourselves. You could have a large loyal following if you treated the > American Flyer collector community with just a litt1e respect and there > is an entire "scale" group out there that would absolutely love some new > products. Come on, you own the trademarks, the tooling, and the capacity > to feed a huge upwardly mobile community. If you are not going to bring > American Flyer "stuff" to the market place, let someone else do it! > > How do we begin the discussion of you licensing others to create > products to feed the growing S community. You are missing out on some > serious bucks! > > For supposedly savvy train people you sure have missed the boat! > > <signed> > > Mark B. Preman > President, > Mark B. Preman Enterprises, Inc. > AMERICANFL YERTRAINS. COM > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ If Lionel is trying to kill Flyer, maybe you guys could get a sharpie who is familiar with such things as, restraint of trade.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13882	From: TED R LARSON	Date: 7/12/2001
Subject: photos

http://members.aol.com/e44e33/Railpix/Photos.htm Just in case you are looking for more railroad photo sites. Ted Larson My computer's cup holder has a CUP WARMER! ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13883	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 7/12/2001
Subject: Re: A Letter To Lionel

This reminds me of my go around with Lionel lawyers four years ago. Our local club was using the classic symbol of A.C. Gilbert's engine and freight cars. I learned that Lionel was going after people using their copywrited material. I wrote and asked them how we could use a logo legally. They sent back several pages of literature with the conclusion that every time we printed the logo we would have to print under it that it was "Used by permission of Lionel LLC". I then asked what action they would take against a local club. They said if we didn't mass produce the logo on a profitable item then probably no action would be taken. For the 12 years that the club has used the logo no action has been taken. They seemed rather intent on going after people using "American Flyer" or any other related name. Thus this case is not a new issue, nor has Lionel produced anything in quantity since. Glenn Hmmmmm! Do I see "American Flyer" here. S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com "Used by permission of Lionel LLC"

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13884	From: mlmarmer	Date: 7/12/2001
Subject: Re: A Letter From Lionel

Hi Paul and Mark: What a bunch of crap from Lionel who is now producing their product in China after shutting down production in Michigan and many people in that state lost their jobs. I guess the big jobs at the corporate executive level at Lionel stayed in America to count all the big savings they are making with the downsizing of the company. I guess they were not so worry about those who lost jobs, but are worry about a few t-shirt sales by Mark in Orlando. Why are they so worry about very little possible profit lost that Mark may get in selling the shirts with the Gilbert names? I don't see them doing any marketing at all on American Flyer products that is a very small percent of total sales and profits to the company. I am sure the lost sales of non-existant shirts with AF names is really hurting the Lionel Corporation of America, I mean China! Hey, Neil Young, should I burn all my CD's and LP's of yours I own. Neil, speak up to this nonense of trademark rights they claim is hurting the company. It actually might help them sell more AF product (which is very little) they make. Let Mr. Perlman continue to help keep the name of Amercian Flyer alive, Lionel isn't doing very much to keep the memory alive. Hey Hey, My My, American Flyer is still alive, my stolen version from the LP "Rust Never Sleeps", 1980. Opps, Lyric violation on my part! Ride my Lama, too, Neil! Your last CD was titled "Silver and Gold", maybe the profits that Lionel gets, Silver and Gold Bars. My best to you and your family however, you do so much for CP with your wife's school and you do give concerts to raise money for the research to find a cure for the illness. Maybe it is a ploy on Lionel's part to squash the scale of S into history and convert us S gaugers to awful O gauge with that realistic looking 3 rail track that O runs on! That is the whole conspiracy behind this stupidity. LOL! Doesn't Lionel have anything else better to do, like concentrate their efforts in gaining market share over the other O gauge companies who's products look allot better to me than Lionel's? I hope Mark will fight back, but I sure the legal system, with Lionel's money and lawyer's will win this battle. Best of luck to you Mark, Mike Marmer Germantown, Maryland

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13885	From: mlmarmer	Date: 7/12/2001
Subject: Stupidity of Lionel but legal!

Hi Paul and Mark: What a bunch of crap from Lionel who is now producing their product in China after shutting down production in Michigan and many people in that state lost their jobs. I guess the big jobs at the corporate executive level at Lionel stayed in America to count all the big savings they are making with the downsizing of the company. I guess they were not so worry about those who lost jobs, but are worry about a few t-shirt sales by Mark in Orlando. Why are they so worry about very little possible profit lost that Mark may get in selling the shirts with the Gilbert names? I don't see them doing any marketing at all on American Flyer products that is a very small percent of total sales and profits to the company. I am sure the lost sales of non-existant shirts with AF names is really hurting the Lionel Corporation of America, I mean China! Hey, Neil Young, should I burn all my CD's and LP's of yours I own. Neil, speak up to this nonense of trademark rights they claim is hurting the company. It actually might help them sell more AF product (which is very little) they make. Let Mr. Perlman continue to help keep the name of Amercian Flyer alive, Lionel isn't doing very much to keep the memory alive. Hey Hey, My My, American Flyer is still alive, my stolen version from the LP "Rust Never Sleeps", 1980. Opps, Lyric violation on my part! Ride my Lama, too, Neil! Your last CD was titled "Silver and Gold", maybe the profits that Lionel gets, Silver and Gold Bars. My best to you and your family however, you do so much for CP with your wife's school and you do give concerts to raise money for the research to find a cure for the illness. Maybe it is a ploy on Lionel's part to squash the scale of S into history and convert us S gaugers to awful O gauge with that realistic looking 3 rail track that O runs on! That is the whole conspiracy behind this stupidity. LOL! Doesn't Lionel have anything else better to do, like concentrate their efforts in gaining market share over the other O gauge companies who's products look allot better to me than Lionel's? I hope Mark will fight back, but I sure the legal system, with Lionel's money and lawyer's will win this battle. Best of luck to you Mark, Mike Marmer Germantown, Maryland

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13886	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 7/12/2001
Subject: Re: Rare and sharp 375 on Ebay (plus more)

In a message dated 7/12/01 6:54:50 PM, busyboy@... writes: << Two to go (and buy 2, count 'em, TWO, S-helper F-3 AB sets; that's an ABBA set in one roadname, for the same money as this BORING diesel with a bicycle horn), Chris Zizzo >> Agreed -- "rare" is an much overused word and "scarce" is more appropriate. We are all savvy enough to know that 1953 375s and SHS F-3s are purchased for very different reasons -- both valid in their way. BTW, some of us have discovered that those boring old Gilbert "bicycle horns" are much more durable than the less than wonderful Chunking Flyer speakers in the new F-3s. For those of you who may not be aware of it, do not turn the level control for the sound system in the new F-3s all the way up (the counter intuitive counter clockwise direction) or you may have the permanently simulated sounds of a ball bearing plant rather than an Electromotive Division diesel. The speakers are easily overdriven and damaged. The second disappointment, once one opens up the unit to replace the speaker, is that you will find the speaker is hot glued in place rather than properly mounted with screws and a gasket. There is much else that is good (e.g., scale detail, smooth operation, etc.) about these new units, but the sound system, regrettably, is not one of them. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13887	From: Mike Marmer	Date: 7/12/2001
Subject: Duplication of messages

Sorry about the double sending of my message to Lionel, I had receive a return notice for some reason and didn't it went through, but I see on the website it did go through, along with other messages not receive. Mike Marmer

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13888	From: Scott Holm	Date: 7/12/2001
Subject: Where's the diner car supposed to go?

Speaking of the diner cars for the various LTI sets...Where is it supposed to go? After the combine? Does that mean that the passengers in the combine have to go through the kitchen to get to the diner? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13889	From: lancemccold@chartertn.net	Date: 7/12/2001
Subject: Track for scale and high-rail

A friend and I want to build some S-modules. We want to run scale equipment on the modules, but we want to be able to run flyer as well. We would like to use track that is as close as possible to scale that still will allow AF to run. I understand that code 125 is the smallest rail that can accommodate flyer wheels. Is that correct? We prefer to use flex track and #6 or larger switches. What would people suggest? Thanks, Lance McCold

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13890	From: Robert W. Jackson	Date: 7/12/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] photos

TED R LARSON wrote: > My computer's cup holder has a CUP WARMER! Been tryin' to figure out why a computer needs a warm cup??? Bob Jackson

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13891	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/12/2001
Subject: Re: Where's the diner car supposed to go?

Scott, In the real world, there is a side isle past the kitchen area. Diners are often placed mid-train, to shorten the distance from the passenger's farthest seating point. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13892	From: Damian Brindell	Date: 7/12/2001
Subject: Re: Where's the diner car supposed to go?

I am sure different railroads did it different ways, but most often, I have seen the diner or club car near the middle of the train. That way, nobody has to walk too far to get to it. There is an aisle alongside the kitchen so the patrons can reach the dining area without going through the kitchen. Dan Brindell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Holm" <imsscott@...> To: "s-trains" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 9:13 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Where's the diner car supposed to go? > Speaking of the diner cars for the various LTI sets...Where is it > supposed to go? After the combine? Does that mean that the passengers > in the combine have to go through the kitchen to get to the diner? > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13893	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 7/12/2001
Subject: Where's the diner car

In the East, the diner was often used to separate the first class passengers from the coach passengers. However, all four of the Gilbert streamlined plastic passenger carbodies (I don't own any LTI rolling stock) loosely reflect cars that would be open to all coach passengers -- the combine represents a baggage-tavern car. The coach and vista dome have coach window openings. The observation car would have been open to all passengers. So you can put the diner anywhere in THAT consist after the combine. Gotta add that that LTI diner looks like something you or I might have made when we were 8 years old. (My calling the Franklin "ugly" started a huge debate. How about this one?) Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13894	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 7/12/2001
Subject: Lionel Letter

I have really come to dislike Lionel, and this latest thing takes the cake. I don't plan to purchase any more Lionel products (except to honor a commitment I have already made to a dealer from which I have ordered a 752 repro, if that ever shows up). Flyer fans have been putting up with this stuff for years, hoping that some day Lionel will take the American Flyer name seriously and give them what they want. It hasn't happened, and my guess is, it never will. I think the best thing that could happen is for Lionel to go under, and hope that someone with good intentions towards S gauge gets the trademarks and molds at the bankruptcy auction. With Lionel moving its production to China, it would seem that they are in a fight to the death with MTH. I plan to support MTH and hope they can manage to prevail over Lionel. Not my intention to start a big fight or anything, but this is just how I feel...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13895	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 7/12/2001
Subject: Re: Stupidity of Lionel but legal!

I see you do not understand copyright laws. They enforce this not because his selling T-shirts is hurting them financially but if they don't enforce the unauthorized use of their owned names, they become public domain and they don't own them anymore. Thank you Gentlemen Larry Jackman mlmarmer wrote: > > Hi Paul and Mark: > > What a bunch of crap from Lionel who is now producing their product in China > after shutting down production in Michigan and many people in that state > lost their jobs. I guess the big jobs at the corporate executive level at > Lionel stayed in America to count all the big savings they are making with > the downsizing of the company. I guess they were not so worry about those > who lost jobs, but are worry about a few t-shirt sales by Mark in Orlando. > > Why are they so worry about very little possible profit lost that Mark may > get in selling the shirts with the Gilbert names? > > I don't see them doing any marketing at all on American Flyer products that > is a very small percent of total sales and profits to the company. I am > sure the lost sales of non-existant shirts with AF names is really hurting > the Lionel Corporation of America, I mean China! > > Hey, Neil Young, should I burn all my CD's and LP's of yours I own. Neil, > speak up to this nonense of trademark rights they claim is hurting the > company. It actually might help them sell more AF product (which is very > little) they make. Let Mr. Perlman continue to help keep the name of > Amercian Flyer alive, Lionel isn't doing very much to keep the memory alive. > Hey Hey, My My, American Flyer is still alive, my stolen version from the LP > "Rust Never Sleeps", 1980. Opps, Lyric violation on my part! Ride my > Lama, too, Neil! Your last CD was titled "Silver and Gold", maybe the > profits that Lionel gets, Silver and Gold Bars. My best to you and your > family however, you do so much for CP with your wife's school and you do > give concerts to raise money for the research to find a cure for the > illness. > > Maybe it is a ploy on Lionel's part to squash the scale of S into history > and convert us S gaugers to awful O gauge with that realistic looking 3 rail > track that O runs on! That is the whole conspiracy behind this stupidity. > LOL! > > Doesn't Lionel have anything else better to do, like concentrate their > efforts in gaining market share over the other O gauge companies who's > products look allot better to me than Lionel's? > > I hope Mark will fight back, but I sure the legal system, with Lionel's > money and lawyer's will win this battle. > > Best of luck to you Mark, > > Mike Marmer > Germantown, Maryland > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13896	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/12/2001
Subject: Re: Stupidity of Lionel but legal!

Lawrence is correct, but I find it interesting that they targeted Paul who is, I believe, only selling shirts printed by someone else. Shouldn't they be the ones that Big L goes after? Protection of the American Flyer name is why Big L sold H-O "American Flyer" sets through Sears (tm) back in 1975. When I saw them, I realized that Big L did think that the AF name was worth hanging onto. It would seem that some equitable arrangement could be made with Big L to allow the supportive kind of merchandise that T-shirts, etc. provide, after all, it is good PR for them, and right now they could use all they can get! (NO, this is not a statement of support for Big L--I too, am frustrated by their lack of understanding of the S market). S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13897	From: Rick Evans	Date: 7/12/2001
Subject: AF T-Shirts,.....

As an American Flyer fan,..I would like some AF T-Shirts!! And if YOU-KNOW-WHO isn't making them (or are they?),..then where am I supposed to find 'em??? I understand YOU-KNOW-WHO'S position,...BUT, are they willing to work with distributers(or is it o-r-s?) to help push AF merchandise?? I think they should dump the AF rights, Flyer is no threat to them, they have other companys to worry about!! Gee,..I hope the YOU-KNOW-WHO Police don't come to my house and take away the little AF T-Shirt I got off of ebay for my daughter!! Well, it's actually on one of her teddy bears, and he won't put up much of a fight! Rick "AF shirtless" Evans

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13898	From: Rick Evans	Date: 7/12/2001
Subject: Shirts again......

After re-reading Paul's first post,...it was stated that the use of "Gilbert" and "A.C. Gilbert" is the problem. Soooooo....what about shirts that just say "American Flyer"????? Is that still a problem?? Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13899	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 7/12/2001
Subject: : Re: [S-Trains] Stupidity of Lionel but legal!

Larry Jackman wrote: >I see you do not understand copyright laws. They enforce this not >because his selling T-shirts is hurting them financially but if they >don't enforce the unauthorized use of their owned names, they become >public domain and they don't own them anymore. I'm no legal authority, but I do believe Larry is correct about the legalities involved. Having acknowledged that, however, there is still an element of stupidity in play here on Lionel's part. (Oops! I used the name. Better use a non-trade mark, like, oh... the "Big L"...) The stupidity is not that they want to protect their trademark, which is a legitimate concern, and increasingly more important as MTH continues to clean Lio-... er, the Big L's clock. The stupidity is their heavy-handed approach, designed to intimidate, which costs them much needed goodwill and support, not to mention FREE ADVERTISING. On the other hand, maybe they're just embarrassed about AF. (They should be, given how they've handled it.) Y'know what? I think we should respect their trade names. Since they seem to want to keep the name "American Flyer" OUT of the public conciousness (at least as it involves them), suppose we declared a moratorium on the use of their name (the zero gauge one) in this forum? We could talk about "AF" and "A.C." etc., but never mention Li-... er, them, those guys in Mich-... er, China. It's only a suggestion, of course. Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13900	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 7/13/2001
Subject: Re: AF T-shirts...

Rick "AF shirtless" Evans wrote: >As an American Flyer fan,..I would like some AF T-Shirts!! Also needed are some American Models and S helper Service T shirts! And caps, and coffee mugs! Where does it say that I, along with Rick, should be shirtless (not to mention bear-headed and thirsty) just because nobody makes the proper accouterments for championing my favorite companies? Is there no justice anymore?!? Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13901	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 7/13/2001
Subject: Re: AF T-shirts(Safe Attachment).

On Fri, 13 Jul 2001 07:06:43 -0000 eighthmile@... writes: > Rick "AF shirtless" Evans wrote: > > >As an American Flyer fan,..I would like some AF T-Shirts!! > > Also needed are some American Models and S helper Service T shirts! > > And caps, and coffee mugs! Where does it say that I, along with > Rick, > should be shirtless (not to mention bear-headed and thirsty) just > because nobody makes the proper accouterments for championing my > favorite companies? Is there no justice anymore?!? > > Chuck F. > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > ---------- From: Dennis A. Troini <paladindennisalexander@...> To: eighthmile@... Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 07:00:33 -0700 Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Re: AF T-shirts... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Full-Name: Dennis A. Troini There is no more Justice. Remember she is Blind. No one should confuse Justice with Law. They are NOT mutual concepts today. Big Michigan Train Louse ( BMTL) has the law on its side , and the hell with Justice. Dennis Troini On Fri, 13 Jul 2001 07:06:43 -0000 eighthmile@... writes: > Rick "AF shirtless" Evans wrote: > > >As an American Flyer fan,..I would like some AF T-Shirts!! > > Also needed are some American Models and S helper Service T shirts! > > And caps, and coffee mugs! Where does it say that I, along with > Rick, > should be shirtless (not to mention bear-headed and thirsty) just > because nobody makes the proper accouterments for championing my > favorite companies? Is there no justice anymore?!? > > Chuck F. > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13902	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 7/13/2001
Subject: Lionel Logo clarification

I am not a target of the Lionel letter. I have tried to steer clear of logos and 'making a profit'. Mark sent me a copy and asked me to share them with you folks. I too wish I had a S-Helper shirt. (hint) ===== Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com Photography - Computers - Trains __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13903	From: busyboy	Date: 7/13/2001
Subject: Re: AF T-shirts...

Chuck F. wrote: >Where does it say that I, along with Rick, >should be shirtless (not to mention bear-headed and thirsty) just >because nobody makes the proper accouterments for championing my >favorite companies? NO SHIRT, NO HAT, NO MUG . . . NO SERVICE! Hey Preman, just between us list goers, how about selling us some of those shirts before you send them back? We'd expect a discount, of course! 2-2-go, Chris Z.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13904	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/13/2001
Subject: Re: AF T-shirts...

A Discount?? For an Item that can now be put on eBay as "RARE!!" "Recallled, out-of-production" RATS, and I don't have one either. . . . :-( S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13905	From: neil.trump@bt.com	Date: 7/13/2001
Subject: Re: AF T-shirts...

Just being curious, does Lionel have the ability to stop production overseas and then you guys ordering snail mail? Neil Trump SMAS Aldershot Neil.Trump@... 01252-352434 -----Original Message----- From: David Dewey [mailto:djdewey@...] Sent: 13 July 2001 15:31 To: busyboy; eighthmile Cc: slist Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Re: AF T-shirts... A Discount?? For an Item that can now be put on eBay as "RARE!!" "Recallled, out-of-production" RATS, and I don't have one either. . . . :-( S' David D. S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13906	From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com	Date: 7/13/2001
Subject: Big L and their stifling of Flyer

Greetings, Just read about the commotion Big L has started over T-shirts. I sure don't think much of their approach, yet can see their interest in squashing the "pirating" of their registered names. I agree that they should be more friendly toward the "S" people. If they were, we would buy more. (Provided the product was worth purchasing.) But to come out as they did could create 600 less customers just from our list. I can hear the board room now. "Hmmmm, I have an idea! Let's go after anyone infringing on our rights to control a name for a product we make little or none of. That way we can kill off the interests of the "old-timers", squelch any newcomers, claim the gauge dead, take a tax loss for the little bit of leftover inventory, write off the "development" costs, claim it isn't worth it to move the tooling to China, dump that in the lake claiming it'll make good habitats for the fish, claim a deduction for "helping the environment", and we'll come out smelling like a rose! Besides, no one is buying our product now since it is so shabby. If we kill it, we won't have to sink any more money into it!" Now, what we would like to hear would be: "Hmm, we're not making much from the "S" gauge line. Let's sell it to one of our little competitors. If they make a go of it, no big deal to us as our market is "O". The existing "S" people will commend our efforts, and speak well of us to their "O" friends, building us a "good neighbor" image. The little company may go under and take our "S" line with it, but what do we care? We'll have profited from the sale, built our image, and then all those disappointed "S" people will jump on the "O" wagon. After all, we've been around for a century, and see how long those "S" products have been around. Well, I'm rambling. Gotta' see if I can still get some shirts. Maybe they'll become collectible, scarce items on eBay. Oh, about boycotting their current product. If Big L produces something I want, I'll try to get it. To stop buying any Big L product will just fall into their apparent scheme of "No sales indicates no interest so we can drop the line." Maybe they'll see that a better product, and more of it, will create a larger market. (I ordered my 2001 Christmas car in January. I hope to get one this year.) OK, I'll stop. My work is calling me. "Come out to the shop, come out to the shop." Have a great day! (I'll sign off as "Sam" so Big L doesn't put me on their black list.) "Sam" ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13907	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/13/2001
Subject: Neat photo of S modeling

Hi all, Over on the S-scale list Richard S. posted some info on a New Zeland S model company, while this stuff is fine-scale, thought you might like to see one of the pictures, prettty amazing! http://www.nzfinescale.inet.net.nz/images/brunner2.jpg S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13908	From: louis glumac	Date: 7/13/2001
Subject: AF WHAT IS IT?

hi i need some help, just got a box full of american flyer stuff,and in with the switches were two metal structures 3 inches long, with a box and a shed built into them, with 3 wires comming out one side, and 4 wires comming out the other side, they look like some kind of controller for the swutches, your help would be appreciated thanks lou [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13909	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 7/13/2001
Subject: Re: AF T-shirts...

They can stop them from coming into the country. Larry neil.trump@... wrote: > > Just being curious, does Lionel have the ability to stop production overseas > and then you guys ordering snail mail? > > Neil Trump > > SMAS Aldershot > Neil.Trump@... > > 01252-352434 > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Dewey [mailto:djdewey@...] > Sent: 13 July 2001 15:31 > To: busyboy; eighthmile > Cc: slist > Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Re: AF T-shirts... > > A Discount?? For an Item that can now be put on eBay as "RARE!!" "Recallled, > out-of-production" RATS, and I don't have one either. . . . > :-( > S' > David D. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13910	From: Ted Larson	Date: 7/13/2001
Subject: Convention

Here's a topic for you photographers that plan to shoot plenty of Kodak's finest at the convention (Hint: always use ripe yellow film, never moldy green film). Some photofinishers now have an option to have your photos scanned at time of processing, and available for viewing on-line. You can choose to make the photos available to others for viewing. This sounds quite a bit simpler than uploading photos to Yahoo's shared photos section. Here's an example. http://www.clarkcolor.com/ Click "View Demo" I just found out about this, and dropped film in the mail this morning. I should be able to let you know how well it works in a few days. ===== Ted Larson __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13911	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/13/2001
Subject: Convention--Film & Digital

Ted, You wrote; " (Hint: always use ripe yellow film, never moldy green film). " Hmm, was this just a funny, or a funny jab at "the other major brand" (you know, the other four-letter word that starts with "F") that comes in green boxes? Either way, Good 'un! :-) S' David D PS I usually buy the outdated stuff on sale and keep it in my 'fridge--but it does make the vegies smell funny! ;-) Hmm, but not as bad as the super-glue does!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13912	From: IronHorse	Date: 7/13/2001
Subject: T-shirts

Wasn't the T-Shirts giving them (L*?!) free advertising ? Boy are they stupid. If any of you want to use my train logo on T-shirts -- go ahead. Just make sure the museum address is on them. :o) Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13913	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 7/13/2001
Subject: WHAT IS IT?

They sound like #695 reverse loop relays. Are they light green? This accessory is used to flip the polarity in the outer rail of a reverse loop. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13914	From: rgajnak@earthlink.net	Date: 7/13/2001
Subject: Re: Big L and their stifling of Flyer

"Sam" wrote: >Now, what we would like to hear would be: "Hmm, we're not making >much from the "S" gauge line. Let's sell it to one of our little >competitors. >If they make a go of it, no big deal to us as our market is "O". The >existing "S" people will commend our efforts, and speak well of us to >their "O" friends, building us a "good neighbor" image. The little >company may go under and take our "S" line with it, but what do we >care? >We'll have profited from the sale, built our image, and then all >those disappointed "S" people will jump on the "O" wagon. After >all, we've been around for a century, and see how long those "S" >products have been around. 1.) IMHO, the American Flyer name is worth more to Lionel dead and buried in the back room rather than alive in someone else's hand. 2.) Those other "S" companies may have a shorter history, but they have released more new, better product than the AF from Lionel over the past 20 or so years. 3.) This whole broo-ha-ha about the T-Shirts is probably some "legal eagle" at Lionel trying to justify his job. The lawsuit with MTH must be slowing down... Be seeing you... Rich G.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13915	From: The Reis's	Date: 7/13/2001
Subject: Re: Big L and their stifling of Flyer

If you look at this from the Lionel side ( I do not agree with or buy their rolling stock offerings) They need to keep up on the copy righted names or lose them like Larry says. On the T-shirts, they have people with licensing rights to make shirts with the American flyer and Gilbert names on them. I have a blue one with the yellow replica of a box end and have had a red and white one. They all have the "Produced under license of Lionel........." wording on them. They need to protect the name and the people who have paid to produce licensed products. Just like the ripoff t-shirts .selling here at the all star game this week. A lot higher profile but the same issue. Simply put, they own the names and they have the right to protect them and use them the way they want. What we need here is for Don and Ron to put out some T-Shirts for advertising of their much superior products. Eric Reis (Jaded by too much good Baseball lately) Kenmore, Wa. -----Original Message----- From: rgajnak@... [mailto:rgajnak@...] Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 12:15 PM To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [S-Trains] Re: Big L and their stifling of Flyer "Sam" wrote: >Now, what we would like to hear would be: "Hmm, we're not making >much from the "S" gauge line. Let's sell it to one of our little >competitors. >If they make a go of it, no big deal to us as our market is "O". The >existing "S" people will commend our efforts, and speak well of us to >their "O" friends, building us a "good neighbor" image. The little >company may go under and take our "S" line with it, but what do we >care? >We'll have profited from the sale, built our image, and then all >those disappointed "S" people will jump on the "O" wagon. After >all, we've been around for a century, and see how long those "S" >products have been around. 1.) IMHO, the American Flyer name is worth more to Lionel dead and buried in the back room rather than alive in someone else's hand. 2.) Those other "S" companies may have a shorter history, but they have released more new, better product than the AF from Lionel over the past 20 or so years. 3.) This whole broo-ha-ha about the T-Shirts is probably some "legal eagle" at Lionel trying to justify his job. The lawsuit with MTH must be slowing down... Be seeing you... Rich G. S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13916	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 7/13/2001
Subject: Big L

Big L. and S gauge? one word answer: Fuggedabowdit. They are not going to help us. End of story. Lets move on to the next thing. All this bitching and moaning is starting to sound like the s scale list, home of the Hatfields and the McCoys. (Oops, there I go talking about history again!) Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13917	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 7/13/2001
Subject: Re: Track for scale and high-rail

We have good luck with AM code 148 flex track with BK switches on our club modules. The BK switches handle both scale and Flyer but are tedious to asemble and debug. If AM ever produces their code 148 moving frog switch that would be ideal. SHS is good except you're limited to #3 switches. lancemccold@... wrote: > > A friend and I want to build some S-modules. We want to run scale > equipment on the modules, but we want to be able to run flyer as well. > > We would like to use track that is as close as possible to scale that > still will allow AF to run. I understand that code 125 is the > smallest rail that can accommodate flyer wheels. Is that correct? > > We prefer to use flex track and #6 or larger switches. What would > people suggest? > > Thanks, > > Lance McCold > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13918	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 7/13/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, July 15, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13919	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 7/13/2001
Subject: Type 4 smoke fluid

Thanks for sending me a sample to try. It arrived yesterday and I tried it last night. Thanks for the excuse to run my trains! Type 4 is better than types 1, 2 or 3. It smokes well and lasts pretty long, but there was more delay until the engine started to make smoke than I am used to. The aroma is woody, but not exactly the same evocative blend of balsam and cedar with a hint of menthol as with original ACG AF fluid. Type 4 fluid per se still smells as if the base is kerosene, but I didn't get a headache from running with it like I did with early types. The bottle it came in is not a good dispenser. Even with great care and a funnel it was hard to avoid spills. The flip lid allows too much fluid to pour out at a time, even drops are too big. I don't know how Type 4 compares to other "original" formula smoke fluids like the one from Hobby Surplus or "Challenger" fluid from Fred Jester, but perhaps other testers do and can share that with us. Thanks again for keeping me in mind for testing. Where there's smoke, There's Flyer. Dave -------------------------- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld (www.BlackBerry.net) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13920	From: BENJAMIN PERRY	Date: 7/13/2001
Subject: Re: Lionel Logo clarification

An S Helper (XL) T shirt sounds very good. HINT HINT ------ Original Message ----- From: Paul Yorke Sent: Fri, Jul 13, 2001 7:14am To: <s-trains@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [S-Trains] Lionel Logo clarification I am not a target of the Lionel letter. I have tried to steer clear of logos and 'making a profit'. Mark sent me a copy and asked me to share them with you folks. I too wish I had a S-Helper shirt. (hint) ===== Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com Photography - Computers - Trains __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13921	From: Damian Brindell	Date: 7/13/2001
Subject: Re: Where's the diner car

You'll get no argument from me on that one. Most of the LTI stuff I have seen is U-G-L-Y. Makes me appreciate the original A.C. Gilbert items all the more. I find it amazing that LTI can't do a better job; after all, the technology of plastics, molding, etc., has improved over the years. Should be easier to make a good-looking train now than it was in the old days. ----- Original Message ----- From: <jarcho@...> To: <S-trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 12:10 AM Subject: [S-Trains] Where's the diner car > In the East, the diner was often used to separate the first class > passengers from the coach passengers. However, all four of the Gilbert > streamlined plastic passenger carbodies (I don't own any LTI rolling > stock) loosely reflect cars that would be open to all coach passengers -- > the combine represents a baggage-tavern car. The coach and vista dome have > coach window openings. The observation car would have been open to all > passengers. So you can put the diner anywhere in THAT consist after the > combine. > > Gotta add that that LTI diner looks like something you or I might have made > when we were 8 years old. > > (My calling the Franklin "ugly" started a huge debate. How about this one?) > > Tom > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13922	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/13/2001
Subject: Big L's mold-makers, WAS: Where's the diner car

Historically, ACG's mold-makers always had a more "artful" hand in their creations than Big L. Finer details and more prototypical. Note even the later-made bay window caboose cupola. This is a one-piece roof mold, as opposed to the "regular caboose, which has roof overhangs on its cupola. Compare it to the "new caboose" which is the same technical type mold, but lacking the 'delicate' nature of the ACG one. Also note the handrails on the "new" caboose and compare them with any ACG one; much smoother, more prototypical curve. Another simple detail is the ends of the roof walks. ACG made the very ends thin, using fillets underneath that represent the prototype's braces, but leave the end edge looking more realistic. This is obvious when one looks at the "new" caboose roof. True, the thinner part is more easily broken, as all collectors know! So, when the Big L molders reworked the ACG molds, the fluting lost some of its delicate edging--it does allow the mold to be used longer, with less noticeable wear, but yuck! Of course, nowadays SHS has "raised the bar" on details, much as ACG did when the S'cale line debuted. Onward with S! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13923	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 7/14/2001
Subject: big L's mold makers

I do not agree with David that ACG's mold makers were better than Lionel's. (Taliking about old Lionel, not LTI). Rather, the two groups of mold makers were operating under different philosophies. Gilbert's were striving for the most realistic effect possible. Lionel's were trying to add as much play value as possible even if it was out of scale. Both succeeded. Gilbert's men took toy trains to a higher level of realism. Lionel's loaded their items down with doors, hatches, steps, ladders, and so forth, that invited the child's eye into the train. Compare the Lionel 0-27 coach and AF Osgood-Bradley New Haven coach. The Lionel has end doors, diaphragms,vestibules, roof hatches and vents, all oversize but adding to the play value. Gilbert merely produced an accurate if foreshortened model of a specific prototype with minimal end detail. Both cars were very successful sellers. The difference in philosophy between the two large train makers manifested itself in many differences between the two product lines. In the next Roundhouse, I compare the Lionel and AF track switches. This type of comparison has interested me for some time. I have no idea whether Lionel's old mold makers were better than the recent crop. I don't own any LTI rolling stock. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13924	From: Dick Kuepper	Date: 7/14/2001
Subject: RailArc

Tom Stolte wrote: Now here is a interesting web page where you can view any type of freight car. Well almost. URL is below. Just enter the reporting marks and or number of the car. It even works if you just enter the reporting marks, such as MP. http://www.railarc.org/ It's also a great site for excellent photographs of the scenery and structures around the cars. Dick [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13925	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 7/14/2001
Subject: Re: Big L

Tom Jarco wrote: Lets move on to the next thing. All this bitching and moaning is starting to sound like the s scale list, home of the Hatfields and the McCoys. Oh, come on now. The bitching and moaning on the S scale list is better detailed and held to tighter tolerances, with finer nits to pick.... :-) Toodles.... Rich G. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13926	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 7/14/2001
Subject: Re: T-shirts

IronHorse wrote: > Wasn't the T-Shirts giving them (L*?!) free advertising ? > Boy are they stupid. > > If any of you want to use my train logo on T-shirts -- go ahead. Just make > sure the > museum address is on them. :o) > > Roger > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ I think I mentioned this before, even though I am as far from L as I can be in my activities. What they seem to be doing is closely parallel to all the big oil companies buying up any alternative fuel developments such as hydrogen, and then squashing them--or maybe even like the oil and tire companies taking over all the city trolley lines in the 50s and putting them out of business. Nowadays with all the laws and regulations we have to live with, is there some way L can be hit with something along the line of "Restraint of Trade". I have heard such terms as "Magnuson-Moss Act" or "Sherman Anti-Trust Act" on the radio in this arena, though there may be others. DE

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13927	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 7/14/2001
Subject: Where's the diner car Hey here is the fun!

The first piece of LTI that I purchased was the REA Reefer. I was not impressed the car soon made its way to my sell list. The second LTI car I have purchased is a copy of the California Zephyr diner. I enjoy having the extra car flyer style streamline car type, it runs well, and the lighting is more consistent than the lighting in the accompanying AF originals in the consist. It was made in the USA. But then, I am an operator. Most visitors to my pike are non rail people, and they can't tell the difference. The car is easy to improve. Order a pair of repo Aluminum car signs replace the CALF ZEPHYR name on the upper plate, and SILVER PLATTER is covered with an Car nameplate. Clean the existing President's name off the plate. Replace it with a new President ( I chose CLINTON as this is an LTI car!!!) For the the name plate I suggest the one for AFL661 as it is easy to change the 1 to a 4 ( thus car #664). HAVE SOME FUN! I wish LIT would produce a sleeper or a full baggage car. David Dewey wrote: > Historically, ACG's mold-makers always had a more "artful" hand in their > creations than Big L. Finer details and more prototypical. Note even the > later-made bay window caboose cupola. This is a one-piece roof mold, as > opposed to the "regular caboose, which has roof overhangs on its cupola. > Compare it to the "new caboose" which is the same technical type mold, but > lacking the 'delicate' nature of the ACG one. Also note the handrails on > the "new" caboose and compare them with any ACG one; much smoother, more > prototypical curve. > Another simple detail is the ends of the roof walks. ACG made the very > ends thin, using fillets underneath that represent the prototype's braces, > but leave the end edge looking more realistic. This is obvious when one > looks at the "new" caboose roof. True, the thinner part is more easily > broken, as all collectors know! > So, when the Big L molders reworked the ACG molds, the fluting lost some > of its delicate edging--it does allow the mold to be used longer, with less > noticeable wear, but yuck! > Of course, nowadays SHS has "raised the bar" on details, much as ACG did > when the S'cale line debuted. Onward with S! > S' > David D. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13928	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/14/2001
Subject: Re: Where's the diner car Hey here is the fun!

Well, if we're going to talk wishes, I wish big L would produce not only a full baggage car in the streamline series, but an Operating mail car baggage car! Wouldn't that be cool??? I suppose one could change it to an operating baggage car and toss suitcases out and across the station parking lot! :-) BTW, the later ACG passenger cars didn't have the seperately applied nameboards either. My complaing on the CZ cars is the finish is too rough, perhaps hiding rust pits in the tooling?? Now a Chromed CZ car set (or nickeled, even closer to prototyp finish) would really make the cars look swell, like the stainless steel cars they represent. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13929	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 7/14/2001
Subject: Re: big L's mold makers and T-shirts

In a message dated 7/14/01 4:40:45 AM, jarcho@... writes: << I have no idea whether Lionel's old mold makers were better than the recent crop. I don't own any LTI rolling stock. >> Lionel (MPC, LTI, LLC) used (and will still use in China on many an occasion) the old Gilbert tools with some refurbishment and modifications. The only new tools were the new offset copula caboose, new inserts for the diners, chassis stampings, and the numerous changes (read "downgrades") in trucks, couplers, and power trucks. To give the Devil his due, the graphics for many of the society cars done for the TCA, TTOS, Toy Train Museum, etc., are pretty sharp within a post war toy train context, however, their efforts on much of the catalogued offerings could be disappointing and overpriced. Others may do as they wish, but for me, IMHO, their future efforts will probably be academic -- I love, collect, and operate AMERICAN Flyer. On the infamous T-shirt matter -- Lionels' reaction to protect their trademarks is the normal corporate response, which is legal and appropriate (unless you live in China where "faking" and copyright infringement are rampant!). If it was Ford to GM to Cargill to Microsoft to whathaveyou, the response would be the same. I have some nice AF Ts (yellow and white graphics on blue) purchased from the TCA Museum and they do have the licensing citation in small print on them. Rather than whine, get a licensing agreement. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13930	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 7/14/2001
Subject: American Flyer T Shirts

On Fri, 13 Jul 2001 12:57:53 -0700 Eric Reis wrote: <Subject: RE: Re: Big L and their stifling of Flyer < <If you look at this from the Lionel side ( I do <not agree with or buy their rolling stock <offerings) They need to keep up on the copy <righted names or lose them like Larry says. On <the T-shirts, they have people with licensing <rights to make shirts with the American flyer and <Gilbert names on them. I have a blue one with the <yellow replica of a box end and have had a red and <white one. They all have the "Produced under <license of Lionel........." wording on them. <They need to protect the name and the people who <have paid to produce licensed products. Just like <the ripoff t-shirts .selling here at the all star <game this week. A lot higher profile but the same <issue. Simply put, they own the names and they <have the right to protect them and use them the <way they want. What we need here is for Don and <Ron to put out some T-Shirts for advertising of <their much superior products. Well, Eric, you better take good care of them, because you can no longer purchase them. The reason: Lyin'L came after the manufacturer and wanted something like $2.75 per shirt (for a royalty fee). So he stopped making them. I have the yellow and blue shirts (with the train) and the red, blue, and white one that I wear to all train shows. I have been think about producing the iron-on transfers for these shirts, and then giving them away on orders of $30 or more. What is the legality of giving them away? Anyone want a Lyin'L shirt? Joe ===== Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,300 part lines American Models ## S-Helper Service ## Gilbert Rerpoductions Featuring Parts by Toy Trains International joestrainrepair@... Master Card/Visa __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13931	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 7/14/2001
Subject: L Parody

How far can a parady be legitimately carried? For example, would the following t-shirt considered a legal parady: Front Side: Orange T-shirt with black bar containing "Lyin'L" Back Side: Real authentic 3-rail tubular track Realistic looking stubby boxcars Accurate 1/4 inch to the foot** **Give or tack 1/16 of an inch to the foot Joe ===== Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,300 part lines American Models ## S-Helper Service ## Gilbert Rerpoductions Featuring Parts by Toy Trains International joestrainrepair@... Master Card/Visa __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13932	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 7/14/2001
Subject: L Parody

Joe, Joe, how could you forget that stupid grinning airbrushed lion ? That was a big part of their advertising at one point, wasn't it? Plenty of possibilities for that guy. Or perhaps I'm seeing triple. Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13933	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 7/14/2001
Subject: Re: American Flyer T Shirts

You can not use that logo any way, any shape or any how. You probably do not know but copyright infringement caries criminal penalties also and you can ( if they want to push the justice dept. hard enough ) be put in the "can" for a few years. Also if the want to push hard enough and if they have the records of where and to whom they were sold, come to your house with a warrant and pick up all copies. Take it off your back if they see you at a show. How far will they go????? Your guess is as good as mine. Thank you gentlemen Larry Jackman Joseph Haenn wrote: > > On Fri, 13 Jul 2001 12:57:53 -0700 Eric Reis wrote: > > <Subject: RE: Re: Big L and their stifling of Flyer > < > <If you look at this from the Lionel side ( I do > <not agree with or buy their rolling stock > <offerings) They need to keep up on the copy > <righted names or lose them like Larry says. On > <the T-shirts, they have people with licensing > <rights to make shirts with the American flyer and > <Gilbert names on them. I have a blue one with the > <yellow replica of a box end and have had a red and > <white one. They all have the "Produced under > <license of Lionel........." wording on them. > <They need to protect the name and the people who > <have paid to produce licensed products. Just like > <the ripoff t-shirts .selling here at the all star > <game this week. A lot higher profile but the same > <issue. Simply put, they own the names and they > <have the right to protect them and use them the > <way they want. What we need here is for Don and > <Ron to put out some T-Shirts for advertising of > <their much superior products. > > Well, Eric, you better take good care of them, because > you can no longer purchase them. The reason: Lyin'L > came after the manufacturer and wanted something like > $2.75 per shirt (for a royalty fee). So he stopped > making them. > > I have the yellow and blue shirts (with the train) and > the red, blue, and white one that I wear to all train > shows. I have been think about producing the iron-on > transfers for these shirts, and then giving them away > on orders of $30 or more. What is the legality of > giving them away? > > Anyone want a Lyin'L shirt? > > Joe > > ===== > Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9 > 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 > Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer > Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,300 part lines > American Models ## S-Helper Service ## Gilbert Rerpoductions > Featuring Parts by Toy Trains International > joestrainrepair@... Master Card/Visa > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13934	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 7/14/2001
Subject: SMOKE & LOGOS

Smoke is a little slow right now so I'm working on my logo T=shirt "American " L"iar" with the red white and blue shield....Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13935	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/14/2001
Subject: SMOKE & LOGOS--My proposed logo!!

Now we're gonna have fun!! I propose the following logo: http://www.quiknet.com/~djdewey/ffshield.jpg I don't THINK it violates any trademarks, except maybe the AF shield, but doesn't UP use it too?? Heh Heh Heh David :"Flyer Fanatics United" Dewey! PS feel free to copy the image, don't think I'll leave it on my site long. . . .

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13936	From: busyboy	Date: 7/15/2001
Subject: Re: Big L

Rich Gajnak said: >Oh, come on now. The bitching and moaning on the S scale list >is better detailed and held to tighter tolerances, with finer nits to >pick.... :-) Proto 64 Bitching? CZ

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13937	From: IronHorse	Date: 7/15/2001
Subject: Re: American Flyer T Shirts

> The reason: Lyin'L came after the manufacturer and wanted something like > $2.75 per shirt (for a royalty fee). So he stopped > making them. Why not add 2.75 to the price and keep selling them ???? Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13938	From: Neil Trump	Date: 7/15/2001
Subject: Re: American Flyer T Shirts

Why give Lyin'L another $2.75 for something they don't appreciate and nil return. ----- Original Message ----- From: "IronHorse" <cofa@...> Cc: "S Trains" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 1:48 PM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] American Flyer T Shirts > > > > The reason: Lyin'L came after the manufacturer and wanted something like > > $2.75 per shirt (for a royalty fee). So he stopped > > making them. > > Why not add 2.75 to the price and keep selling them ???? > > Roger > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13939	From: LEAHY RUTH A	Date: 7/15/2001
Subject: Cheyenne Train Show

Drove up to the Cheyenne, WY., Train Show on Saturday. The show itself was held in the old Union Station in Cheyenne, which they are restoring as funds are available. The great part of the day was a tour of the Union Pacific steam shops. The men who gave the tour were outstanding & we learned a lot about the history, etc. Included in the tour was a chance to climb aboard several steam engines & take pictures, see a snow plow up close, walk around the turntable, etc. They have the largest operating steam engine on the planet (as they referred to it). It was a great afternoon for $5.00. Mike Leahy

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13940	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/15/2001
Subject: Re: American Flyer T Shirts

Roger & all, Yes, you could just add the royalty fee to the wholesale price, BUT! You are talking about an item that wholesales at $8 to $10 (I'm not a dealer so I'm not privy to exact price, but this is about what we paid at the RR museum for shirts a few years ago). Now we are talking a 1/3 price jump just to cover "licensing fees" and your product is now that much more expensive than any of your comparable stuff (it doesn't matter that it is an AF shirt; it is just a "railfan market" shirt, as is the rest of your theoretical product line). The retailer has to add his/her "usual mark-up" so the shirt is now retailing at $21 to $26 each, compared to comparable merchandise that is at $16 to $20. The immediate bookkeeper's conclusion is; "Drop this item, it won't sell." Oh well, guess we're down to backyard silk-screen printers and underground shirt sales! (you didn't hear that from me!) Unless maybe someone at Big L reconsiders the licensing fee schedule. S' David D. PS It's too early in the morning to be so analytical! Gotta go look at a house that has an incredible train room, but is priced about double what we can afford--but gotta look!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13941	From: busyboy	Date: 7/15/2001
Subject: Re: T-shirts

The rants we've heard! >I don't see them doing any marketing at all on American Flyer products that >is a very small percent of total sales and profits to the company. I am >sure the lost sales of non-existant shirts with AF names is really hurting >the Lionel Corporation of America, I mean China! and a question: >Doesn't Lionel have anything else better to do, like concentrate their >efforts in gaining market share over the other O gauge companies who's >products look allot better to me than Lionel's? and an opinion: >I have really come to dislike Lionel, and this latest thing takes the >cake. I don't plan to purchase any more Lionel products . . . >I think the best thing that could happen is for Lionel to go under, and >hope that someone with good intentions towards S gauge gets the >trademarks and molds at the bankruptcy auction. and confusion: >I find it interesting that they targeted Paul [sic: it's Mark] who >is, I believe, only selling shirts printed by someone else. Shouldn't they >be the ones that Big L goes after? and a declaration: >I think they should dump the AF rights, Flyer is no threat to them, >they have other companys to worry about!! and a solution: >Y'know what? I think we >should respect their trade names. Since they seem to want to keep the >name "American Flyer" OUT of the public conciousness (at least as it >involves them), suppose we declared a moratorium on the use of their >name (the zero gauge one) in this forum? We could talk about "AF" >and "A.C." etc., but never mention Li-... er, them, those guys in >Mich-... er, China. and this is my favorite: >is there some way L can be hit >with something along the line of "Restraint of Trade". I have heard such terms >as "Magnuson-Moss Act" or "Sherman Anti-Trust Act" on the radio in this arena, >though there may be others. Dear Train Dudes: There's an awfully large quantity of emotion here. Some level heads have tried to prevail, pointing out that Lionel paid good money for the American Flyer names and now owns them outright. They have pointed out that it is the duty of the officers of a corporation to protect the corporation's trademarks from infringement by others, particularly for profit. This must be done for all trademarks, whether the corporation is using them or not. In fact, it is the right of the corporate officers to deliberately bury a trademark so it is never seen or heard from again, for whatever reasons they wish. If you want to see this in action, go mass produce an automobile and call it the "Edsel". I have met Mark Preman, and I like him. With his shirts he is just trying to make a buck selling a piece of nostalgia. He means no harm to Lionel, and I doubt any harm would come to Lionel. In fact, as many of you pointed out, these shirt logos would work to increase awareness of trains, Flyer and the Big L. However, (and let's get our heads straight about this) Mark's sale of these shirts IS an infringement of copyright laws. His sale of them takes control of the copyrighted names out of the hands of the owners, in a financially profit seeking manner. It really doesn't matter how any of us feel about it. It is not important that we think that it's a small, harmless infraction. Copyright law protects the owners of intellectual property even when that protection flies in the face of popular opinion. The recent Napster flurry made that clear. If you want to sell American Flyer T-Shirts, go cut a deal with Lionel for licensing rights. If they want too much money and you can't afford it, then you will not be making American Flyer T-Shirts! If I owned the name, that's the way I'd want it. I just got my Gabe the Lamplighter yesterday. It's great. I asked Charlie at Nassau Hobbies when all the Lionel stuff I ordered was coming in. Their Gabe has been pushed back to October. I said "Why do they bother? Everybody already has the MTH Gabe." "Oh No!" he answered, I've got over a hundred orders in on it now!" People want the "real" Flyer Gabe. Puppies are so loyal, even when you kick 'em. Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13942	From: Nick and Becky Colleran	Date: 7/15/2001
Subject: Trademarks

Some comments on this topic from someone who has been in copyrights trademarks and patents for the last 40 years... Read closely the letter from Lionel and you'll notice that the trademark "A.C. GILBERT CO." is not yet registered. It is an application pending. Lionel only registered GILBERT a few years ago. I doubt that anyone would have wanted the company name considering the financial condition at the time (1967). Buy the assets not the company with its debts. GILBERT was being used on Erector sets in the early 1970's (Gilbert ERECTOR). Excerpt from their letter: "Lionel owns a number of U.S. Trademark Registrations together with U.S. Trademark Applications. Including U.S. Registration No. 2,194,149 for the mark GILBERT and U.S. Trademark application No. 76/130,680 for the mark A.C. GILBERT CO." BTW - Giving away the property will not mean there are no damages. As pointed out earlier, there is more to it than money as well. It is a violation of Federal law to infringe. That is why when records (LP's etc.) were not protected by copyright in the late 1960''s and 1970's, the bootleggers would pay the publishers for the song license covered by the federal copyright but take their chances on a suit for duplicating the recording which was only subject to civil action. Damages on an individual 1000 or so units was not worth pursuing. The problem was so many folks were making their own album of current hits that copyright was extended to the performance, hence the "P" in a circle next to the copyright for the composition "C" I would think that Lionel is trying to accumulate additional "rights" by registering names, especially since they are jobbing out the building of product. This is a very "entertainment business" philosophy. It's too bad someone doesn't have the cash to throw away testing some of these claims. Prior use of Gilbert is a defense. There are now web sites devoted to debunking claims for intellectual property. Folks are getting rewards for information on "prior art" as companies save having to pay licensing fees. That's my rambling for the month. --- Nick

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13943	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 7/15/2001
Subject: new video

i just got a new digital sony camcorder to use at scranton. I hope to share it with all. Maybe combine with other peoples tapes and produce a comprehensive tape. Send me your comments offline or at the chat. ===== Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com Photography - Computers - Trains __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13944	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 7/15/2001
Subject: Re: T-shirts

Thank you Chris for a concise synopsis. Having been involved in licensing negotiations for the City of NY and the MTA, I would suggest sending a copy of your synopsis as cover for all the posted discussion , and (ASKING) proposing to Lionel that with inclusion of the PERMISSION statement and proper copyright and Trademarking (TM) they WAVE ALL Fees in order to obtain the additional advertising. This package, if denied, would go a long way to proving ,at least in this instance Mismanagement, to the stockholders , the real bosses. Just a thought, But It Has Worked Before. Dennis

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13945	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/15/2001
Subject: Re: Trademarks

Gabriel bought the Erector set line, and the Gilbert name, apparently, as their production was usually labeled Gilbert. I think they produced a few other products under the Gilbert name too. Where is Gabriel today?? Or maybe I should ask WHO owns Gabriel today? I would suspect they have a stronger case for the use of the Gilbert name, and could charge Big L for its use! BTW, I have heard that Mrs. Kuehn (sp?) actually owns the AF rights. Hope to catch you all on chat tonight, I'm a gonna play hooky on house packing! S' David D. PS No luck with the hunting so far. . . .

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13946	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 7/15/2001
Subject: 234 on eBay

Two sides lettering/numbers are not the same - one yellow, one nearly white. Buyer knows it. Faded from display, or "rare", ergo the price it up to already? http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1616118347 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13947	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 7/15/2001
Subject: Re: Trademarks

Erector sets are now available from Meccano of Italy. Check Toys-R-Us

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13948	From: David	Date: 7/15/2001
Subject: Re: 234 on eBay

He states Mint... I think not. He also states original frame..... I think not. Lettering is repro on one side. Buyer Beware!!!! Looks like this loco has serious problems.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13949	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 7/15/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, July 15, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13950	From: Rick Evans	Date: 7/15/2001
Subject: Re: Shirts again......

I'll ask this question again........Did I miss the answer?? OK,..that wasn't the question,... After re-reading Paul's/Mark's first post,...it was stated that the use of "Gilbert" and "A.C. Gilbert" is the problem. Soooooo....what about shirts that just say "American Flyer"????? Is that still a problem?? Rick "Still curious" Evans

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13951	From: IronHorse	Date: 7/15/2001
Subject: Re: American Flyer T Shirts

HMmmmm. Is there room for a black market here. Opps! I didn't say that.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13952	From: IronHorse	Date: 7/15/2001
Subject: Re: SMOKE & LOGOS--My proposed logo!!

Way to go David !!! Perhaps you should change it to "original" Flyer fanatics ? David Dewey wrote: > Now we're gonna have fun!! I propose the following logo: > > http://www.quiknet.com/~djdewey/ffshield.jpg > > I don't THINK it violates any trademarks, except maybe the AF shield, but > doesn't UP use it too?? > Heh Heh Heh > David :"Flyer Fanatics United" Dewey! > PS feel free to copy the image, don't think I'll leave it on my site long. . > . . > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13953	From: IronHorse	Date: 7/15/2001
Subject: Re: SMOKE & LOGOS--My proposed logo!!

Out of 600+ members of this group one of us is a multimillionaire. That person could wave enough money in front of Lyin "L" s nose to buy ACG , From LyinL, lock stock and barrel, to the point they would be insane to refuse the offer. Then Produce AF the way it should be. I think the right person could get his money back because he knows how to market a product effectively. Any smart rich people out there ? There are plenty of us that will give great advice on how to market AF. Most of us are very smart, we just don't have the finical resources to buy AF . How do you know we are smart ??? Were here aren't we? :o)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13954	From: IronHorse	Date: 7/15/2001
Subject: Re: SMOKE & LOGOS--My proposed logo!!

At all train shows someone should have a Lying L layout, with the word "Lying L" on the side of the rolling stock. And a poster expressing what Lying L is trying to do to "S" gauge. Have copies of actual letters from Lying L to back it up.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13955	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 7/15/2001
Subject: Re: American Flyer T Shirts

Black Market , Sure. And better , a RED one. Let the Red Chinese Make it and Market it and Lionel Loses all its rights to the product name , license , copyright and trademark. Thank the Brains in Washington, the Hague, and the perpetrators of the "Vision of a World Economy". It will happen ,: If the Red C can thumb its nose at Wm. Gates, SHOW THEM THE MONEY and they will do it to anyone. And the B.i.W. will be too scared to do anything , Except Maybe add a value added tax so they can get their cut. Al Capone ran the Chicago Mob for only 10 years. The gang of B.i.W. has been a closed ended fund and holding company since LBJ showed them the error of Honesty. On Sun, 15 Jul 2001 21:15:51 -0400 IronHorse <cofa@...> writes: > HMmmmm. Is there room for a black market here. > > Opps! I didn't say that. > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13956	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 7/15/2001
Subject: Re: SMOKE & LOGOS--My proposed logo!!

With all the a..h..ery about Lyingel, shall we begin a pool on what United( Airlines, Aircraft, Engines) will Threaten. No more Frequent flyer miles? Transit Through an operational Turbofan engine? Dennis the optimist. On Sun, 15 Jul 2001 21:39:57 -0400 IronHorse <cofa@...> writes: > Way to go David !!! > > Perhaps you should change it to "original" Flyer fanatics ? > > David Dewey wrote: > > > Now we're gonna have fun!! I propose the following logo: > > > > http://www.quiknet.com/~djdewey/ffshield.jpg > > > > I don't THINK it violates any trademarks, except maybe the AF > shield, but > > doesn't UP use it too?? > > Heh Heh Heh > > David :"Flyer Fanatics United" Dewey! > > PS feel free to copy the image, don't think I'll leave it on my > site long. . > > . . > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13957	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 7/15/2001
Subject: STOCK IN THE FUTURE

Just read COFA'S post.... May be there is one of us to buy the AC GILBERT thing in whole....we might be able to put in say $50.00 each for a stock type thing...and vonly be out one new SHS or AM car to help the cause....But would that really work....There are about 600 of us that can send a buck or two to Joe's train repair to help him get AF and/or"S" to children that need some toys(Trains)....I don't know how many of you know of what he is involved in with the repair of AF for kids...But we might look to the fact that an old car that sits in a box in storage can do for his cause....From what I understand of his project he will take anything RR related to repair for these kids.......JOE IF I"M IN ERROR HERE PLEASE LET ME KNOW.... Anyway this in my opinion This may help would help From the Grass Roots of AF....Mike S. PS If anyone wants to ream me go ahead on list or off....But $600-$1200 will go along way to repair or supply trains("S") or(AF) to a new group....This is the time as X-Mas is near

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13958	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 7/15/2001
Subject: (no subject)

This is added to my first post....Maybe as a group we could without hurting anyone's pocket book get together to supply some AF to a person or group that would take the procedes to help a project from our group to find a Boy"s(girl"s) club to sponser (sp)....I know there are many to choose from so there would be problems....But cant we find one to show we care about what we do...Everyone talks about modular this and that ....could we sponser a group or two that already may be going ...but with younger members ...not just the older guys(yes over my age)..to help them along...Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13959	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/15/2001
Subject: Re: SMOKE & LOGOS--My proposed logo!!

H:mm If we go with "Ironhorse's" suggestion: Original Flyer Fanatics United, then we have OFFU, pronounced, "Oh, Phew!" Or we could have Original Flyer United Fanatics, or OFUF, "oof, uuf" Hmm. . . . Feel free to copy and distribute the fun shield, at least until I can figure out what the licensing fees should be! ;-) S' David D. Having too much fun! But then I'm easy to entertain! www.quiknet.com/~djdewey/ffshield.jpg

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13960	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 7/15/2001
Subject: Re: T-shirts

Chris Zizzo wrote: >Dear Train Dudes: >There's an awfully large quantity of emotion here. I'm not sure if my tongue-in-cheek suggestion that we abstain from using "the name" on this board to avoid "copyright infringement" would qualify as "emotional", but if anyone wants to read it that way, be my guest. Having said that, it's certainly true that among S gaugers, there IS plenty of negative sentiment towards the L That Is Large. (There's plenty of it among O gaugers too, but I won't go there now.) The negative waves are inevitable given Large L's track record (sorry) with AF. Venting about it is also inevitable, especially in a forum like this. It's gotten so that even when L the Humongous takes some legitimate action to protect their copyrights, it doesn't sit well with many. Indeed, protecting AF copyrights seems to be the only thing the Huge 9th Consonant CAN do right with AF. Ah, well... Regarding another post I made about AM and SHS paraphernalia, though I was being facetious in tone, I was completely serious about wanting such stuff. Since he won't be making any T shirts with "AF" on them, maybe Mark Preman could contact Ron B. and Don T. about flying the colors for their products. That'd be even better than nostalgia! Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13961	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 7/15/2001
Subject: T-Shirts

Hey if you are looking for a person to sell these T-shirts....I have nothing to lose....All my things have been given to my kids...I really don't have much longer or anyrthing to lose ....All my thjings belong to the one's I want to have them So bring on the Mighty "L" I could care less and would enjoy a pleasent fight to the end (or beginning) Everything I user to own now is lent to me by the people I know....almost to the the clothes on my back.....The last thing I really owened was a Buick Parklane that was totaled after dinner last night...I lookat my(?) 336 and am happy that it landed at the place I live....Sorry for some of the rambing typing ,never could spell well or write a letter either...thios is not a letter to depress...sorry if it does but....This is why I want People to help the younger members.....I already have made a comment to Joe's Train Repair for parts and Smoke fluid toi sell Etc Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13962	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 7/16/2001
Subject: MEDS

Excuse me if I seem a bit out of it ....the meds seem to be taking effect...Mike

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13963	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 7/16/2001
Subject: Re: SMOKE & LOGOS--My proposed logo!!

Sorry, we are all humble model railroaders. I haven't met a multi-millionaire S gauger yet. Most lawyers collect Lyin"L". Also millionaires are counting their money not spending hours a day reading this list. I have two conventions in the next two weeks, one being the NASG. I won't be clearing my mailbox for 8 days. Hmmmm, at 30 messages a day that's about 240 to clear when I get back. Staying on the NPSG branchline of NASG track, Glenn IronHorse wrote: Out of 600+ members of this group one of us is a multimillionaire. That person could wave enough money in front of Lyin "L" s nose to buy ACG , From LyinL, lock stock and barrel, to the point they would be insane to refuse the offer. Then Produce AF the way it should be. I think the right person could get his money back because he knows how to market a product effectively. Any smart rich people out there ? There are plenty of us that will give great advice on how to market AF. Most of us are very smart, we just don't have the finiancal resources to buy AF . How do you know we are smart ??? Were here aren't we? :o)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13964	From: IronHorse	Date: 7/16/2001
Subject: Buy Lying L out

Every so many years the Lying L company goes up for sale. Isn't it about time it got on the market again. Maybe somebody is a friend of a multi millionaire. Maybe one of us is a good con-artist and can get a multi millionaire to buy Lying L in our favor I hear there are a lot of millionaires that actually are looking for an unusual way to spend their money. Someone out there have a good enough imagination to write up a story for the tabloids as a come on. Do I sound like I am desperate ? :o) Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13965	From: IronHorse	Date: 7/16/2001
Subject: [Fwd: Returned mail: Service unavailable]

> I am getting a lot of duplicate messages from this forum. > Can someone fix the situation. > Thanks [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13966	From: bulamatare@yahoo.com	Date: 7/16/2001
Subject: Going to Las Vegas

I will be in Las Vegas July 21st thru 28th. Can anyone suggest A hobby store or anyone in that area that may have some quality American Flyer for sale? Any suggestion would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Steve

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13967	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/16/2001
Subject: Re: Going to Las Vegas

Fer as I know, Vegas is a real dessert for AF & related stuff. Remember, when trains were big, Vegas was a relatively small town inhabited by big-time gamblers and the Marks who came to see the place! Gee, it hasn't changed much, has it??? :-) S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13968	From: Michael Greene	Date: 7/16/2001
Subject: News from the NMRA Convention & National Train Show

This past Thurs through Sunday I was able to attend the last half of the 2001 NMRA National Convention and the National Train Show in St. Louis. First a little news from the 2001 NMRA National Convention -- 1) The NMRA's DCC Working Group met Thursday morning from 8am-noon. This group is the NMRA body responsible for the technical work on the NMRA standards and Recommend Practices (RPs) for DCC. Attendance was quite good with all the major American manufacturers represented except for MRC, and several European manufacturers as well. In addition there were a number of Working Group members present who are not manufacturers. Among the topics covered included ongoing work on: - Comments received on new RP for the Control Bus that connects the Command Stations to power stations (aka boosters) - A new DCC instruction that would allow control on analog devices using joystick, etc. This would allow control of "multi-dimensional" analog items such as cranes, playable whistles, etc. - standardized accessory decoder connector for connection to turnouts - new DCC instruction to be sent over the control bus that would allow soft setup of power station parameters, instead of having to use jumpers, etc. - discussion about how to create "deep memory" for saving data in DCC decoders. On example use of this might be that when you get a decoder configured the way you want it, you could "save" all the CVs related to this setup as "user defaults", and instead of having to do a reset to factory defaults, you could also have the option to do a reset to user defaults. Another application might be allowing the user to define a curve of brightness for a lamp, so that the user can create light patterns to meet their needs for the bulbs they are using (the reason this was of interest is that the light patterns offered by some decoder manufacturers do not always meet a particular user's needs, or might need to be tuned for the correct effect on a certain bulb.) The big topic is a proposal for bi-directional communication on the rails, based on work on the hardware level by Lenz Electronic and on the protocol level by several working group members. Imagine a standardized way for decoders to "talk" with the commend station or other devices connected to the track. Imagine be able to both read and write CVs on the mainline. Or have the decoder provide information on back EMF to be used in load simulation, etc. There are a number of applications. At this point hardware is working, and the DCC working Group will begin intial testing of the proposal, along with developing a formal test plan. 2) I was able to attend a few other clinics while at the convention: - Joe Nichols, Sr. did an excellent clinic on scratch building interior details for passenger cars, and this clinic is actually on video in the NMRA library for NMRA members to access. An excellent clinic. - The NMRA DCC manufacturers' forum was well attended, and representatives of most manufacturers spent the entire time answering users' questions. - Ray Persing offered a good clinic on scratch building wood structures. Easy to follow, with good examples. - Marvin Selzer gave a good clinic on JigStones, an innovative product that allows the casting of stone wall components to be assembled as well as buildings and used on your layout. Marvin and his wife run C.L.A.M.S., and are a distributor of the product, resins, etc. They have a web site at http://www2.southwind.net/~mselzer The product focus is on use in garden layouts, but there is also an HO version, and both sizes may be useful on S scale layouts. Another good site is http://www.jigstones.com A search with your favorite search engine will also yiled other sites. And some information from the National Train Show. IMHO S was well represented at the National Train Show! And I can't believe how fast the S scale products are rolling out... 1) The Cuyahoga S Scale Assn. had their scale modular layout set up and running at the show. A nice modular layout with a variety of steam and diesel running at the show. Tom Robinson's was there with his S Gauge operating layout promoting the many facets of S. James Ingram was also there with an operating back and forth unit controlling a S Helper Service SW with Soundtraxx decoder, showing off the advantages of S with DCC and sound. 2) The NASG had good size booth promoting S with a number of NASG members staffing it. Among them were John Foley, Lee Johnson, Jeff Madden, and several others. In additional to finding out about S you could purchase NASG items (shirts, coupler height gauges, limited run cars, etc.). In addition Lee had shipped in some of the remaining Chateau Martin wine boxcars from the 2000 MASG Convention -- don't wait too long to get yours... 3) A number of manufacturers who produce products for S scale were present including the following. I'm sure I will miss some -- my apologies in advance! - S Helper Service http://www.showcaseline.com was there with their layout and lots of current and new products, including their outstanding new F3's available for purchase and take home, new freight cars, a F3 A-B-A DCC Sound consist running the entire time, samples of their new Code 125 flex track due this fall, and more. Also be sure to check out their new S scale coupler! - BTS http://www.btsrr.com was there with their absolutely gorgeous S scale steam engines (both standard gauge and narrow gauge) (available in kit, semi-kits, and ready-to-run) , a large number of S scale structures, a variety of Master Creations structures, a number of items for the narrow gauge modelers, and my favorite -- a built up BL2! I have to also say that their product focus on the East Broad Top is making modeling the EBT very attractive. - Des Plaines Hobbies http://www.desplaineshobbies.com was there with their tank cars, hoppers, S scale structures, detail parts, etc. Ron Sebastian also had an O scale version of the S scale brass industrial switcher for which SouthWind Models is currently taking reservations. Really nice looking model. I'm sure I can find a spot for one of these on my layout... - River Raisin Models http://www.riverraisinmodels.com was present with the new Nickel Plate caboose, in addition to a number of other brass models. They still have a few UP Super Turbines available if you have not put in your reservation yet! Also for those of you interested in the super turbines, Withers Publishing (book publisher and published of Diesel Era magazine) http://www.witherspub.com/ has just released a new hardcover book titled Union Pacific's Turbine Era, by A.J. Wolff (list price $55) with a good section on the 8500HP gas turbines. If you've had trouble finding or affording the out-of-print books on these engines by Lee and Keekley, you might want to check out this new book. There was a few copies of the long out of print book on the 8500 Turbines by Rev. Harold Keekley titled Big Blow -- prices ranged from $70-$100. And did you hear about their new Troop Sleeper project (see below for more info)??? - REM Models http://www.remsmodels.com/SKits.html has several S scale kits available, both standard gauge and narrow gauge. I was enamored with the 40' excursion gondola, and am sure it will be right at home on your tourist operation. It is a standard gauge kit, and is based on the cut down standard gauge box car used on the Durango & Silverton, Narrow Gauge RR. - Bar Mills Models http://www.barmillsmodels.com was there with even more new sign kits that would add those finishing touches to your layout. And boy are they simple to build! Art Fahie's (the owner) exquisite layout was featured in a recent Model Railroader article. - For those of you interested in WWII Troop Sleepers and Kitchen Cars, you might want to check out Volume 5 of the Railway Prototype Cyclopedia http://hometown.aol.com/rpcyc/rpcychome.html -- this volume has an extensive article with pictures and drawings...And if you want one or more of these models on your S scale layout, give the folks at River Raisin Models http://www.riverraisinmodels.com a call, as they have just recently announced plans to build these cars in brass - the as-built sleeper car, a kitchen car, and an express/box car version. - Funaro & Camerlengo was there with their three S scale kits. A couple of their NYC 40' Nine panel steel gondolas came home with me. Alas I did not make a note of their other two freight car kits. Perhaps someone else has the details. - Model Tech, Inc. http://www.model-tech.net was there with some beautiful laser cut S scale stations, along with a hay wagon, freight wagon, and a number of other items. Included in their S scale structure catalog are: Sterling Tower, an electrical interlocking tower, a highway type covered bridge, a section tool hours, Newton Falls B&O Freight Passenger Station (includes an electrical interlocking tower built into the roof), B&O standard freight/passenger station - Not specifically S scale, but RAMtrack http://www.ramrcandramtrack.com was there with their sound and light units. One item they produce is an "All Aboard" announcement message sound unit, and one interesting tidbit I discovered was that they are willing to record your announcement onto the system for a small fee. Record your announcement on a cassette, and for a small fee they will load up a sound unit with your recording. - Again not specifically S scale, but Bob's Photo was there with his latest book - this one on Railway Milk Cars. With both pictures as well as prototype & modeling information, these are sure to be a hit with milk car modelers. Bob thinks he has enough material for two more books in this series. Bob only sells these books direct, and can be reached at 37 Spring St., Ansonia, CT 06401 - (203) 734-6666. Bob also has other books in this series including a number of Passenger Car books on New England roads, some books on the New Haven, and one on the Freight Equipment of the New York Central -- Vol 1 -- Boxcars, Reefers and Stock Cars. - Another neat item spotted was the Trac Lite (TM) from OPI Industries. A small device for checking power and polarity on DC and DCC layouts. While they don't have a specific version for S, they do have the "LITE" version ($14.95) which works on N through S gauges. I had to order one as they were all sold out by the time I found them. I don't see a web site on their literature, but you can check out http://home.att.net/~Lindich/tracabut.htm for contact information. This seems to be an older page, without all their new products, but at least has some basics, and some contact info. I'm sure there were others there and other products that I have missed. Perhaps others can send in reports of their own...See you next week in Scranton! Regards Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13969	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 7/16/2001
Subject: Re: Buy Lying L out

IronHorse wrote: > Every so many years the Lying L company goes up for sale. Isn't it about time it > got on the market again. > Maybe somebody is a friend of a multi millionaire. > Maybe one of us is a good con-artist and can get a multi millionaire to buy Lying > L in our favor > I hear there are a lot of millionaires that actually are looking for an unusual > way to spend their money. > Someone out there have a good enough imagination to write up a story for the > tabloids as a come on. > Do I sound like I am desperate ? :o) > > Roger > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ What about the possibility of quietly buying up stock when it becomes available. Then you are a stockholder, and they damn well better treat you differently.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13970	From: Ted Larson	Date: 7/17/2001
Subject: SMOD concerns

In the following message, it appears that there is some misunderstanding regarding the SMOD standards. See my embedded comments. Hope this is good news, and helpful. Any other questions or concerns, please ask. Regards, Ted Larson > There are also the NASG S-mods Modular standards. > I have experimented with them and the module > benchwork can be heavy, awkward The NASG SMOD standards define: - height from floor to top of rail - spacing of mainlines - bridge rail configuration - electrical wiring The standards do NOT define how the benchwork is constructed. You can choose to construct modules that are very heavy, very light, or anything in between. You may make the modules to any length, width you desire. You may use any size and type of rail that you desire, as long as the gauge (distance between rails) meets NASG standards. The construction article on the NASG website depicts a module that meets the standards, but the size of this module and its construction method are NOT requirements. > worst of all : > time consuming to set up. > http://www.trainweb.com/nasg/smodinfo.html > --------or----------- > http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/smod/smod.htm There are multiple methods of attaching legs; none are specified by the standards, you may do as you wish. Several methods have been presented in the NASG Dispatch. > > Most of those problems are solved using the > the Sacramento Modular Railroaders (SMR) of Sacramento, California. > system: > http://saccentral.railfan.net/4ftlegs.html > > Their system is relatively light and efficent > and VERY quick to set up. We have six modules > that take about 25 minutes to set up and > and get operational. This system looks good, is NOT incompatible with SMOD standards, and is similar to one of the methods presented in the Dispatch. MAKE SURE that your wiring and mainline spacing meet SMOD standards. This will permit you to connect your module to anybody else's SMOD module. If the rail is of a different height, all that is needed is an adaptor bridge rail. ===== Ted Larson __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13971	From: G-WOLFGANG5@JUNO.COM	Date: 7/17/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1081

RE: Las Vegas Two stores are listed in the July CTT, one saying they deal in AF: TRAIN EXCHANGE @ 6008 Boulder Hwy...Phone # 702 456-8766. Good luck as Vegas is the most god -awful place otherwise . I was out there two weeks ago and did not have this info-- Tom Hillery

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13972	From: louis glumac	Date: 7/17/2001
Subject: WANTED ROOFS

hi looking for a roof for a 750 bridge and a 771 cattle pen, thanks,,,,,,lou. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13973	From: Bob	Date: 7/17/2001
Subject: Going to N.C.

Dear Group , On the first week of August I'll be leaving for vacation to North Carolina . It's in a town called Atlantic Beach. It's along the coast by a town called Moore Head City. Does anyone know of any good S-Gauge / American Flyer train shops ? Please e-mail me or post any and all answers. Thanks for all of your help...........Bob

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13974	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 7/17/2001
Subject: Re: Buying Lying L out

Roger (IronHorse) wrote: Maybe somebody is a friend of a multi millionaire. Maybe one of us is a good con-artist and can get a multi millionaire to buy Lying L in our favor I hear there are a lot of millionaires that actually are looking for an unusual way to spend their money. Ah, yes. Buying American Flyer would one way to turn a large fortune into a small fortune. Be seeing you... Rich G. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13975	From: John Foley	Date: 7/17/2001
Subject: New S Manufacturer

Hi Folks N-Way Products has come out with their first S product. Crossing Signals with flasher. check it out at, http://www.nwayproducts.com/ John Foley

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13976	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 7/17/2001
Subject: Re: T-shirts

Dear Chuck, We have these for SHS now. Don eighthmile@... wrote: > Chris Zizzo wrote: > > >Dear Train Dudes: > >There's an awfully large quantity of emotion here. > > I'm not sure if my tongue-in-cheek suggestion that we abstain from > using "the name" on this board to avoid "copyright infringement" > would qualify as "emotional", but if anyone wants to read it that > way, be my guest. > > Having said that, it's certainly true that among S gaugers, there IS > plenty of negative sentiment towards the L That Is Large. (There's > plenty of it among O gaugers too, but I won't go there now.) The > negative waves are inevitable given Large L's track record (sorry) > with AF. Venting about it is also inevitable, especially in a forum > like this. It's gotten so that even when L the Humongous takes some > legitimate action to protect their copyrights, it doesn't sit well > with many. Indeed, protecting AF copyrights seems to be the only > thing the Huge 9th Consonant CAN do right with AF. Ah, well... > > Regarding another post I made about AM and SHS paraphernalia, though > I was being facetious in tone, I was completely serious about wanting > such stuff. Since he won't be making any T shirts with "AF" on them, > maybe Mark Preman could contact Don T. about flying the > colors for their products. That'd be even better than nostalgia! > > Chuck F. > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 F-3s and Double Sheathed boxcars are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/emdf3s_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13977	From: Ted Weiler	Date: 7/17/2001
Subject: Extra Board Pg. 29

Jeff, I received my June Dispatch today and in the Extra Board, Page 29, at the bottom center of the page is a quote from the e-groups that is attributed to me regarding the conversion of the A.F. 0-8-0 to a 2-8-0. The conversion was done by Chuck Smith. With the fine Consolidations now available I will purchase one of them instead. Just wanted to set the record straight. Ted Weiler [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13978	From: JRKRrdd@aol.com	Date: 7/17/2001
Subject: Microsoft Train simulator

Hi Gang, I just have to say a word about Microsoft's Train Simulator> Excellent work. How can they pack all that stuff into a program and make it function?! This is really fantasy stuff. I ordered it on their website 2 weeks past and had the sim inside 3 working days from order date. The features are too many to mention. Either have Direct X 7 or 8* in your machine, and preferably a video driver better than mine= the game says 4mb, mine is much less. Microsoft tech was soo helpful in seeing this work for me (despite the driver problem) that I felt they needed a testimonial here----you won't be disappointed. *Direct X ?? > don't ask me , as far as I am concerned, it could be a suppository. Would someone please buy American Flyer from Lionel ?? Make them an offer they can't refuse. Are there enough potential stockholders waiting? I just looked at my "Stable of Champions" 49010 and laughed: a Lionel Stockbox mounted on Flyer trucks? It likes to derail going around one flyer turn---can't figure that out. It was a gift-----wished the "Giftor" knew who to buy from. Someone mentioned this car before on this list. John R [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13979	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 7/17/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1081

Las Vegas: I have visited three shops in the L.V. area, can't recall there names. One is by the RIO hotel, it has some tin plate in a corner of a ( ho) R.R. hobby shop, one is out by the air port, the third is in Henderson, on the south end, of L.V. . If I can find the names I will pass them on, but a check of the phone book will turn up one, they can point you to the rest of the shops. Jerry 77-11644 ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13980	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 7/17/2001
Subject: Re: T-shirts

Don T. wrote: >We have these for SHS now. Do they appear on your website, Don? I looked for them on the Showcase Line site before posting, couldn't find them. Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13981	From: jseltzer@larich.com	Date: 7/18/2001
Subject: 2002 NASG National Convention

The 2002 NASG National Convention will be hosted by the Cuyagoga Valley S Gauge Association in Cleveland, Ohio Wednesday, July 31, 2002 through Sunday, August 4, 2002. More information will be available on our new web site www.cvsga.org next month. Josh Seltzer

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13982	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 7/18/2001
Subject: New file uploaded to S-Trains

Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the S-Trains group. File : /itown_case.JPG Uploaded by : yorke@... Description : Library Display Case - If you local library has a display case, ask if they would like some trains for display. I did. You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/itown_case.JPG To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, yorke@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13983	From: abeachy@erols.com	Date: 7/18/2001
Subject: Library Showcase

Hi Paul and all S Gaugers, Paul, I love your idea to offer trains to your local libray if they have a showcase. I will check on that. My mail carrier collects die cast cars and we sometimes go to shows together. Last year when the post office came out with their streamline trains stamp, he arranged for me to display some toy trains in a showcase in the post office. Wayne Beachy Atlantic Coast S Gaugers Virginia Central Division

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13984	From: Rick Evans	Date: 7/18/2001
Subject: Train stores in Minn.????

Flying into Twin Cities, MN. next week, and boy, will my arms be tired!! Any train stores to visit?? How 'bout it Bob G.???? Yeah, surrrre!! Rick "The Calif. Swede" Evans

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13985	From: Richard Snook	Date: 7/18/2001
Subject: Shirts, Shorts and Shut-outs!!

Gentlemen A little distance is wonderous for clarity.... The Bad News....Lionel (tm) have no interest in S other than to make sure no one else steals that market, and alleviate them of any more lost sales!! Simple as that. If they wished to develop the market, they would. They havent, dont want to and dont care. That is the cold hard reality of it. They are as incompetent as many a company, have little understanding of their own market, and are their own worst enemy!! They are under extreme flack from MTH, and now to a degree from Atlas....these two are far better run companies...and they WILL survive....Lionel (tm) 's future I would dare to suggest is extremely shakey at best. Lionel (tm) having head buried in sand for SO long now will eventually die of asphyxiation...self induced. In mean time as Larry ( possibly tm...lol) points out....if they dont fight even the smallest spot fires, they open up them selves to large scale attack.....so they care not about Paul, other than he was most visible with the shirts, and hence most accessible for correspondence. Lionel (tm) is a beached whale waiting to die, amazing it has gone this far really. MTH will deliver the necessary final blows in the coming years. Lionel (tm) is punch drunk, having had its hometurf methodically and effectively wrenched from it by better product and better, more astute marketing. They have had a number of monumental failures over the last couple of decades, nad these have proved carciogenic. They are living off the name...have put very little investment into saleable product, and as they say, as you so sew, so shall you reap..... and Ill tell ya the reaper aint far away!! but please, enjoy your day cheers >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13986	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 7/18/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1082

Sorry to say it , but GILBERT AMERICAN FLYER went out of business in 1966. The old management tried to bring them back as CONTINENTAL FLYER. In "82" LIONEL reissued a few pieces testing the market. Really the only thing LIONEL has is the name and a few dies to remake some repaints of existing equipment. BUT we have some new manufactures coming up front, many are small manufactures, producing new and interesting equipment they need our support. Enjoy your original GILBERT FLYER, but it's gone. Jerry 77-11644 ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13987	From: IronHorse	Date: 7/18/2001
Subject: Re: Shirts, Shorts and Shut-outs!!

Lying L won't simply die off. They will sell out first. I hope one of our guys is the first one in line. Some feel American Flyer will not sell well. That depends who owns it. A smart person doesn't just make trains. He gets into every aspect of railroading, from Making matchbooks with RR logos to making the garden trains. A person good at marketing will find all kinds of ways to give the hobby public exposure. When is the last time American Flyer or Lying L was advertised in popular mechanics or newspaper or TV. No ads = No sales. About people using L trade mark. I bought some RR fabric today with The L trademark on it. I wonder if L knows about this fabric? I bet there are hundreds of people making items with the trade- mark without permission. I think they went after Paul because of the flack the company is getting from this forum. By the way I wonder how they found out about the T-shirts. I bet there is a fink among us.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13988	From: Rick Evans	Date: 7/18/2001
Subject: Fw: Metal Figures

Hi All, Got this from Keith Elson,...thought I would pass it along. Check out his site. Rick. Subject: Metal Figures Hello, I have a new web site. Thought you might be interested. Thanks, Keith. Keith Elson - Metal Figures 135 Manor Drive Wellsburg, WV 26070 304-737-2513 telson@... visit my new website http://access.mountain.net/~telson/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13989	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 7/18/2001
Subject: Re: Fw: Metal Figures

Dear Rick, If the figures are 1.5" tall, does that make them 8' in S world? Don Rick Evans wrote: > Hi All, > Got this from Keith Elson,...thought I would pass it along. > Check out his site. > > Rick. > > Subject: Metal Figures > > Hello, I have a new web site. Thought you might be interested. Thanks, Keith. > Keith Elson - Metal Figures > 135 Manor Drive > Wellsburg, WV 26070 > 304-737-2513 > telson@... > visit my new website > http://access.mountain.net/~telson/ > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 F-3s and Double Sheathed boxcars are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/emdf3s_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13990	From: IronHorse	Date: 7/18/2001
Subject: Dispatchers office

Hi Guy"S" ; I have a full size dispatchers office At my exhibitorium. I have the roll top desk, Morse code key, and a special addition. A genuine crank em up telephone. This is a great addition to my RR museum. This is a "S"tromberg Carlson crank handle Phone with original Columbia Phone batteries. I imagine the whole thing is 80+ years old. Nothing is missing, and the bell rings when I turn the crank. Anybody know about history on this kind of phone? I would like to add a little info. about it when I tell my customers about a dispatchers office. Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13991	From: Rick Evans	Date: 7/18/2001
Subject: Old Gilbert.....

Gerald R Dobbs wrote: """Sorry to say it , but GILBERT AMERICAN FLYER went out of business in 1966. Enjoy your original GILBERT FLYER, but it's gone."" Boy! I'm not EVEN gonna open up THAT can of worms again!! Rick "We've had THAT thread before" Evans

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13992	From: Rick Evans	Date: 7/18/2001
Subject: Re: Fw: Metal Figures

Don Thompson wrote: "Dear Rick,If the figures are 1.5" tall, does that make them 8' in S world?" ....and what a basketball team THAT would be!! Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13993	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/18/2001
Subject: Reat Looking Dispaly Paul ! (Was an uploaded file notice

Paul's done a great little display, if you haven't looked at it yet, do so! With all of us promoting S, there's nowhere to go but UP! Just got my issue of S' say, John E and crowd are doing a bang-up job of promoting S around Boise! Howard S. (appropriate last name intital, huh?) and I are planning something (small) for the "left coast" crowd too, If it works out, we'll let you know! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13994	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/18/2001
Subject: Re: Shirts, Shorts and Shut-outs!!

I doubt anyone on this forum "reported" the shirts to big L: big L probably has someone on staff who watches the web with a global search program looking for anything resembling ANY of the trademarked or copywrited words they own (Like "Americanflyer trains.com"??). Once found, they look over the site, and that's how I figure the T shirts came to their attention. Oh well. . . . S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13995	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/18/2001
Subject: Ooops, "Reat" was supposed to be "Neat" (nm)

Spell check spell check will I ever learn??

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13996	From: lapasafe@worldnet.att.net	Date: 7/19/2001
Subject: Code 172, Closed Frog Switches

Hi, I'm using code 172, nickle silver. Operating Scale, Hi rail,and Flyer. All Run Great. I can switch from AC to DC for Scale. Just Waiting for the American-S-Gauge, Closed frog switches. Won't be long now. Look at them on this sight. http://trainweb.com/crocon/strack.html I have preordered 12 switches. Reg Cunningham lapasafe Lamanda Park Santa Fe Lamanda Park is East Pasadena, Ca.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13997	From: Euell Johnson	Date: 7/19/2001
Subject: Re: Shirts, Shorts and Shut-outs!!

The other day I checked the Lionel site. They were going to have an auction of everything in the plant: equipment, development models, collectibles, etc. Has anyone on this list attended the auction? Who sells 6 wheel trucks? Do they have a coupler arm like the tinplate 4 wheel trucks? Ask the guys at AM and SHS. Marketing is everything. Where is the S-gauge niche? How large is it? What are the demographics? and their spending patterns? The entrepreneur takes huge risks. There must be the opportunity for a reward equaling that risk. EJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "IronHorse" <cofa@...> Cc: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 9:25 PM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Shirts, Shorts and Shut-outs!! > Lying L won't simply die off. They will sell out first. I hope one of our guys > is the first one in line. > Some feel American Flyer will not sell well. That depends who owns it. A > smart person doesn't > just make trains. He gets into every aspect of railroading, from Making > matchbooks with RR logos > to making the garden trains. A person good at marketing will find all kinds of > ways to give the hobby > public exposure. When is the last time American Flyer or Lying L was advertised > in popular mechanics > or newspaper or TV. No ads = No sales. > > About people using L trade mark. I bought some RR fabric today with The L > trademark on it. I wonder if L knows about this fabric? I bet there are > hundreds of people making items with the trade- > mark without permission. I think they went after Paul because of the flack the > company is getting > from this forum. > By the way I wonder how they found out about the T-shirts. I bet there is a > fink among us. > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13998	From: BENJAMIN PERRY	Date: 7/19/2001
Subject: S SPREE KRISPY KREME CARS & NASG CONVENTION

Those of you that received a gift certificate for Krispy Kreme donuts with your car can redeem same at the Scranton Krispy Kreme at the intersection of Moosic & Front streets. This location shouldn't be too far from the convention site. As to convention dates. Of course it's hard to pick a date that pleases everybody, but some of the suggestions by Michael Green should be given serious consideration. That is if we can ever resolve what times the dealers' hall should be open. Ben Perry _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

Group: S-Trains	Message: 13999	From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com	Date: 7/19/2001
Subject: Big L Stock and Hair Brained Idea.

Hey, Anyone know the listing name for Big L stock. Maybe if enough of us buy a share each, show up at the stockholders meeting, raise a stink about the lack of Flyer, they might turn an ear to us. 600 people owning one share each showing up at their door might throw a curveball to the few dozen stockholders that own multiple shares. At least the major holders would hear from us and not just go on what the CEO wants to tell them. Like I said. Hairbrained. Bill Trefts ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14000	From: busyboy	Date: 7/19/2001
Subject: The endless rant about those damn shirts.

Richard Snook <richard_snook@...> wrote: ....so they care not about Paul, other than he was most visible with the shirts, and hence most accessible for correspondence. and IronHorse <cofa@...> said: >I think they went after Paul because of the flack the company is getting from this forum. Guys, You know a thread has gone on long enough when people get the names wrong and then start compounding the error with theories based on the mistake. Paul Yorke simply passed the information on to us. Mark Preman was selling the shirts. Mark has contributed to this list, but has not offered the shirts here, nor has he drawn attention to himself here. The comments made on this list have nothing to do with this action. It is simply the result of routine search work done by the legal staff at Lionel corporate, or happenstantial discovery. Paul Yorke, who moderates this list, does not, to my knowledge, sell T-shirts. This T-shirt rant against the Lionel Corporation has run it's course and become tiresome. If anyone has anything new to add that will actually shed some light or be of some consequence, please post it now. Then, let us move on. The American Flyer issue, as sensitive a subject as it is for all of us who grew up defending our two rail trains, is essentially over. It is a dead subject. All posts about it should be in Latin, a dead language. The lingua-franca of today is S-Helper and American Models, leading a growing contingent of S-Gauge manufacturers. Hooray!!! This is why Andy Sperandeo did an editorial piece on S-gauge. This is why S is getting national recognition. When you hang your hat on American Flyer, people say: "Yeah, we know. 2-rail track, yadda, yadda, yadda." But when you rally 'round successful new manufacturers whose product lines are growing so fast we can't buy it all, people take notice. They say: "What's with all this 'S' gauge stuff? Is this viable?" The tide of public opinion is turning our way. We are sliding into the mainstream. We might still be the minority gauge, but we're moving away from the back of the bus. Soon, we will see converts. Converts bring money. Money brings growth. Growth brings more variety, more manufacturers, and more trains into our greedy little hands. Live well and prosper S-Trakkies. Our day is nearly at hand. Even the MTH giant has cast a glance our way. The Ross switches we want may be just over the horizon. Who knew that we would one day have a Train-Master? American Flyer is dead. S-Gauge lives on. Stop crying. Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14001	From: bulamatare@yahoo.com	Date: 7/19/2001
Subject: A.F. roofs and boom

Hello, Would anyone have any roofs for the 23796 sawmill? Also, need an original boom. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Steve

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14002	From: sgriggs@umich.edu	Date: 7/19/2001
Subject: Re: Big L Stock and Hair Brained Idea.

I don't think Lionel is a publicly-traded company (i.e. all of the shares are privately owned). --- In S-Trains@y..., wmhtreftsv@j... wrote: > Hey, > > Anyone know the listing name for Big L stock. Maybe if enough of us buy > a share each, show up at the stockholders meeting, raise a stink about > the lack of Flyer, they might turn an ear to us. 600 people owning one > share each showing up at their door might throw a curveball to the few > dozen stockholders that own multiple shares. At least the major holders > would hear from us and not just go on what the CEO wants to tell them. > > Like I said. Hairbrained. > > Bill Trefts > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14003	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 7/19/2001
Subject: S History

>>>David Dewey writes: Paul's done a great little display, if you haven't looked at it yet, do so! With all of us promoting S, there's nowhere to go but UP! Just got my issue of S' say, John E and crowd are doing a bang-up job of promoting S around Boise! Howard S. (appropriate last name intital, huh?) and I are planning something (small) for the "left coast" crowd too, If it works out, we'll let you know! >>> Thanks, David, for the mention. Yeah, we're having fun promoting S in Idaho, and I want to hear more about what you're doing in Northern California. Our niche of the hobby is growing, and it's an exciting time to be an S gauger. Along those lines, I stumbled across something that most of you probably already know about, but I'm passing the word for those who don't. I encourage EVERYONE to go to the NASG website and read the history of NASG, written by Bob Jackson and published in the "Dispatch" from 1986-89. It's as much a history of S as anything, and it's very well written. I'll guarantee that it will be of interest to all of you, whether you're NASG or not. Reading about some of the "S Legends" and realizing that some of those fellows are still actively with us (and on this list!) helps us appreciate just how far we've come in 40 years. It's a five-part series (46 pages), so you may want to print it out and read it at your leisure. I've got it as part of my S library now. Go to: http://www.trainweb.com/nasg/articles_1.html YourS, John Eichmann, Coordinator Rocky Mountain Hi-Railers Boise [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14004	From: aag_rlg@yahoo.com	Date: 7/19/2001
Subject: American Flyer Trademark

Someone on the list noticed that Lionel only accused Mark Preman of infringing on their Gilbert trademarks and not American Flyer. With a little research on the Trademark office website it appears that Lionel has let their registration of the American Flyer trademark expire. They first registered the mark in 1971 and then renewed it for 10 years on March 26, 1991. However, there is no indication of a further renewal on or about March 26, 2001. Therefore, it appears that they may have let this registration lapse. However, it is also possible that the renewal has not yet gotten through the trademark office as these things can take several months. In addition, even if they have not renewed the registration, they would still have a common law trademark right in American Flyer that could be enforced. My guess is the reason that they did not mention the American Flyer trademark is that they didn't need it to claim an infringement, because they had Gilbert, and the status of the American Flyer registration was somewhat up in the air. Typically, someone enforcing a trademark would not draw attention to a trademark registration that was in some doubt if it wasn't absolutely necessary. Art

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14005	From: BENJAMIN PERRY	Date: 7/19/2001
Subject: Re: The endless rant about those damn shirts.

Well said Chris. ------ Original Message ----- From: busyboy Sent: Thu, Jul 19, 2001 12:17am To: slist <s-trains@yahoogroups.com> Subject: [S-Trains] The endless rant about those damn shirts. Richard Snook <richard_snook@...> wrote: ....so they care not about Paul, other than he was most visible with the shirts, and hence most accessible for correspondence. and IronHorse <cofa@...> said: >I think they went after Paul because of the flack the company is getting from this forum. Guys, You know a thread has gone on long enough when people get the names wrong and then start compounding the error with theories based on the mistake. Paul Yorke simply passed the information on to us. Mark Preman was selling the shirts. Mark has contributed to this list, but has not offered the shirts here, nor has he drawn attention to himself here. The comments made on this list have nothing to do with this action. It is simply the result of routine search work done by the legal staff at Lionel corporate, or happenstantial discovery. Paul Yorke, who moderates this list, does not, to my knowledge, sell T-shirts. This T-shirt rant against the Lionel Corporation has run it's course and become tiresome. If anyone has anything new to add that will actually shed some light or be of some consequence, please post it now. Then, let us move on. The American Flyer issue, as sensitive a subject as it is for all of us who grew up defending our two rail trains, is essentially over. It is a dead subject. All posts about it should be in Latin, a dead language. The lingua-franca of today is S-Helper and American Models, leading a growing contingent of S-Gauge manufacturers. Hooray!!! This is why Andy Sperandeo did an editorial piece on S-gauge. This is why S is getting national recognition. When you hang your hat on American Flyer, people say: "Yeah, we know. 2-rail track, yadda, yadda, yadda." But when you rally 'round successful new manufacturers whose product lines are growing so fast we can't buy it all, people take notice. They say: "What's with all this 'S' gauge stuff? Is this viable?" The tide of public opinion is turning our way. We are sliding into the mainstream. We might still be the minority gauge, but we're moving away from the back of the bus. Soon, we will see converts. Converts bring money. Money brings growth. Growth brings more variety, more manufacturers, and more trains into our greedy little hands. Live well and prosper S-Trakkies. Our day is nearly at hand. Even the MTH giant has cast a glance our way. The Ross switches we want may be just over the horizon. Who knew that we would one day have a Train-Master? American Flyer is dead. S-Gauge lives on. Stop crying. Two to go, Chris Zizzo S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14006	From: IronHorse	Date: 7/19/2001
Subject: Re: American Flyer Trademark

If the facts below are true then one of us should apply for the trade mark. Seems to me after approval (Assuming it was granted ) after one of us got it they (L) have to challange it within so many days, or accept they lost it. Probably The common law does not apply here because the company knows about the registration process from previously being registered, rendering common law mute. I am aware that if a product (The hammer for instance) has been on the market for 100+ years then no one can claim a copyright on the product. A similar law is probably in effect with trade marks. In the example below: If is a fact, then the original Gilbert family should have the trade mark. Common law applies to what the general public accepts as a fact, not a specific group. Most people (People 0ver 45 years old) (but Not us, the general public) assume if American Flyer is still manufactured, then it is by the Gilbert family. Wouldn't common law apply to that? > Someone on the list noticed that Lionel only accused Mark Preman of > infringing on their Gilbert trademarks and not American Flyer. With > a little research on the Trademark office website it appears that > Lionel has let their registration of the American Flyer trademark > expire. They first registered the mark in 1971 and then renewed it > for 10 years on March 26, 1991. However, there is no indication of a > further renewal on or about March 26, 2001. Therefore, it appears > that they may have let this registration lapse. However, it is also > possible that the renewal has not yet gotten through the trademark > office as these things can take several months. In addition, even if > they have not renewed the registration, they would still have a > common law trademark right in American Flyer that could be enforced. > > My guess is the reason that they did not mention the American Flyer > trademark is that they didn't need it to claim an infringement, > because they had Gilbert, and the status of the American Flyer > registration was somewhat up in the air. Typically, someone > enforcing a trademark would not draw attention to a trademark > registration that was in some doubt if it wasn't absolutely necessary. > > Art > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14007	From: Scott Holm	Date: 7/19/2001
Subject: Building a super motor

A while back Joe Messinger posted instructions on how to build a super motor out of 1 1/2 regular motors. This link points to that post in the archives: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/message/9231 I was wondering if anybody, including Joe, if he's still here, has any updates or comments on the process? I am considering giving it a try. Has anybody else done this? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14008	From: dlehnhoff@hotmail.com	Date: 7/19/2001
Subject: Sacramento shops

People: I'm at a business meeting 1st week in August. Any Hobby Shop suggestions? I'll be at the convention center...where from there? Dwight Lehnhoff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14009	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 7/19/2001
Subject: STOCK OF "L"

If Big "L" is private stock can anyone get the names ,address etc of the stockholders to write to them direct??? I do not know anything about stock.....I don'ty know what it sells for at this time....Anyone know a "L" stockholder??? We might be able to "Bend" the right ear in our direction......Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14010	From: Euell Johnson	Date: 7/19/2001
Subject: Re: American Flyer Trademark

I am but a layman. There may be attorneys on our list that can better explain the law than I can. But this is the way I remember it from Biz Law in college. Let's see if I can remember my Biz Law class. Common law is a body of law that exists from litigation and the court's efforts to find justice. It is the previous trials and appeals of the various courts. This law may find its roots way back in our English, French and Spanish history. It differs from statutory law. Statutory law is the result of a legislating body, such as a state legislature, the Congress, city Aldermen, etc. Examples of statutory laws are taxes, criminal laws, universal commercial code (in 49 states), etc. There is a body a law that protects trademarks, copyrights and patents. Most, if not all of this, is legislated law. Once a product and its competitors become known by a name, it is assumed that the name becomes generic. An example of this is ASPIRIN. This was originally the product of Bayer. Others begin marketing ASPIRIN. Thus Bayer lost the trademark on the name. We are close to that with a host of products. Examples such as cotton swabs and Qtips, Cola drinks and Coke, are just two of many. There saving grace is that the companies holding these trademarks vigorously defend them. The loss of a copyright is very much like the loss of property due to a fence being mislocated for a fixed number of years. The person with the fence on their property is assumed to have abandoned that land between the fence and his neighbor. The person holding the trademark or patent is assumed to have abandoned it if they do not vigorously protect that property. That includes the now infamous latter, lwasuits, etc. We can not just start out manufacturing and selling 2001 or 2002 Studebaker, Packard, Desoto and Duesenberg automobiles. These names are still owned by some company. However, there have been so many kit cars produced with the Cobra nameplate that my bet is that Shelby has lost the trademark of the name. They have made a Cobra, but not a Cobra by Shelby. ----- Original Message ----- From: "IronHorse" <cofa@...> Cc: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2001 1:31 PM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] American Flyer Trademark > If the facts below are true then one of us should apply for the trade mark. > Seems to me after approval (Assuming it was granted ) after one of us got it they > (L) > have to challange it within so many days, or accept they lost it. > Probably The common law does not apply here because the company knows about the > registration process from previously being registered, rendering common law mute. > > I am aware that if a product (The hammer for instance) has been on the market > for 100+ > years then no one can claim a copyright on the product. > A similar law is probably in effect with trade marks. > In the example below: If is a fact, then the original Gilbert family should have > the trade mark. > Common law applies to what the general public accepts as a fact, not a specific > group. Most people > (People 0ver 45 years old) (but Not us, the general public) assume if American > Flyer is still > manufactured, then it is by the Gilbert family. Wouldn't common law apply to > that? > > > Someone on the list noticed that Lionel only accused Mark Preman of > > infringing on their Gilbert trademarks and not American Flyer. With > > a little research on the Trademark office website it appears that > > Lionel has let their registration of the American Flyer trademark > > expire. They first registered the mark in 1971 and then renewed it > > for 10 years on March 26, 1991. However, there is no indication of a > > further renewal on or about March 26, 2001. Therefore, it appears > > that they may have let this registration lapse. However, it is also > > possible that the renewal has not yet gotten through the trademark > > office as these things can take several months. In addition, even if > > they have not renewed the registration, they would still have a > > common law trademark right in American Flyer that could be enforced. > > > > My guess is the reason that they did not mention the American Flyer > > trademark is that they didn't need it to claim an infringement, > > because they had Gilbert, and the status of the American Flyer > > registration was somewhat up in the air. Typically, someone > > enforcing a trademark would not draw attention to a trademark > > registration that was in some doubt if it wasn't absolutely necessary. > > > > Art > > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14011	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 7/19/2001
Subject: researching Lionel shareholders/investors

Greetings, Since Lionel is privately held, they (Lionel) do not have to report much to the government (outside of paying taxes and fees) If you want to research the company (something spring assoc. LLC or thereabouts) look in a Ward's Business Directory or the Million Dollar Directory. At best you may find the mailing address, officers and and estimate of earnings. Privately held companies are the hardest to research, you could also try a "Google" or a database that indexes newpapers and periodcals. All in all try you local public Librarian, They're there to help. Jeff T.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14012	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 7/19/2001
Subject: Re: researching Lionel shareholders/investors

Lionel's backing comes from a company called Wellspring Capital. Check out their web page and write to them with your comments on Lionel's activities. Jeffrey Tangeman wrote: > Greetings, > > Since Lionel is privately held, they (Lionel) do not have to report much to > the government (outside of paying taxes and fees) > > If you want to research the company (something spring assoc. LLC or > thereabouts) look in a Ward's Business Directory or the Million Dollar > Directory. At best you may find the mailing address, officers and and > estimate of earnings. > > Privately held companies are the hardest to research, you could also try a > "Google" or a database that indexes newpapers and periodcals. > > All in all try you local public Librarian, They're there to help. > > Jeff T. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14013	From: Rick Evans	Date: 7/19/2001
Subject: AF dead...??

busyboy wrote: **((American Flyer is dead. S-Gauge lives on. Stop crying.))** As I said a few posts ago,..I'm not opening up a can of worms or repeating any past posts of mine on the AF subject....soooo, I'll just say this.... Chris...take a chill pill! Let the members of the list, and myself, who long for some new "Flyer", (or at least a dag gum AF shirt) and I know from the past they are out there,...let us have our dreams. American Flyer, as far as a "company" is gone,...but Flyer is far from dead! Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14014	From: roy inman	Date: 7/19/2001
Subject: Dead L

---------- > From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON@...> > Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 20:26:38 -0700 (PDT) > To: <rinphoto@...> > Subject: Returned mail: Service unavailable > > > Don't count L as among the corpses quite yet. > I have occasion to interact with a number of O guys (pretty nice bunch > actually, even if they do run that funny 3-rail stuff). > When they start talking relative merits of MTH v. Lionel, it always comes > down to "Yes but, there is just something about that orange box..." > Until the baby boomers have gone to their just reward, those who remember > "that orange box" from the old days will continue to support L. > Too bad L makes it so hard for S guys to support their products. > On a more cherry note: there sure was lots of good S stuff at the NMRA in > St. Louis. > Roy Inman > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14015	From: Bill Lane	Date: 7/19/2001
Subject: John Hall Decals

Hi All, I am looking for up to 2 sets of John Hall Lehigh & New England hopper cars decals. John thinks that they are his set #131. If you could look through your decal pile and see if there are any "extra sets", I would most appreciate it. Please let me know before the convention. You can bring them to the convention if you have them. Thanks Bill

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14016	From: d.garber@home.com	Date: 7/19/2001
Subject: SIT unit

anyone have an idea about the cotton grommet(washer,ring) around the front motor bearing of the SIT motor? I can not see a reason for it but than at times I cant see what is obvious.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14017	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 7/19/2001
Subject: Re: SIT unit

I think it's an oil wick, designed to hold oil and deliver it to the bearing. Whit the bearing and the cotton both clogged with old oil, it will no longer serve that purpose. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14018	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 7/20/2001
Subject: TEST

TEST ONLY

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14019	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 7/20/2001
Subject: @ND TEST

2ND TEST

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14020	From: IronHorse	Date: 7/20/2001
Subject: Re: SIT unit

Sometimes those cotton washers are supposed to hold oil to provide long term lubrication. It also can be used as a spacer. Other times it is used to clean as the shaft rotates d.garber@... wrote: > anyone have an idea about the cotton grommet(washer,ring) around > the front motor bearing of the SIT motor?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14021	From: IronHorse	Date: 7/20/2001
Subject: Re: AF dead...??

How about dormant ?? In the North country --- Hibernating Rick Evans wrote: > busyboy wrote: > **((American Flyer is dead. S-Gauge lives on. Stop crying.))**

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14022	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 7/20/2001
Subject: super motor

Some one mentioned Fred Jester is now selling repro super motor fields and armatures. But that's all I know. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14023	From: IronHorse	Date: 7/20/2001
Subject: lying L

I would like to write the backers of the Lying L Co. I forgot who the entertainer is, that is part owner. Can someone fill me in? How about names and e-mail addresses of Lying L Chief executive officers? Any E-mail addresses of public relation places In Lying L Co. location? Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14024	From: Doug Peck	Date: 7/20/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Conventions

From the point-of-view of a "non-scaler", and a former NASG BOT member--- I am in TOTAL agreement with Josh's comments! Attendance of NASG members at joint conventions is very poor, compared to separate conventions.....and that includes my own attendance record! I've been to both; I dislike joint conventions. NASG gets lost in the NMRA convention routine. Valley Forge was one of my worst personal experiences. NASG members were scattered in different hotels all over the place, and we had very few strictly--NASG functions. There were many NASG members at VF that I never laid eyes on in 4 days. It was NOT a memorable experience for me (or actually, I guess it WAS!) Apart from my own business exposure, I anxiously anticipate NASG conventions as a place to visit with fellow S enthusiasts and acquaintances......folks I may only see once or twice per year. I do think that's what the focus of NASG conventions should be. That having been said, I ALSO think it is very important for NASG and S manufacturers to have a very visible presence at the NMRA events----both national and regional! That's where promotions come into play. Presence of a prominent S layout (preferably scale, or a layout capable of handling both scale and highrail) is a MUST. A booth area organized by NASG where S-only dealers and manufacturers can concentrate their displays is a MUST. As Don pointed out, space costs at the NTS are extreme, making attendance by many of the smaller S dealers and manufacturers prohibitive. But the shared space concept of the NASG booth, even though it may be display-only and not sales, is both do-able and important for promotions. Both need to be continued every year at NMRA. At the regional NMRA show level, local clubs should organize an S display and layout presence whenever possible. The Bristol Club, last year, had our layout operating at the HUB Division NMRA Show, and it attracted a tremendous amount of attention, and lots of questions. That, together with a "formal" manned S-Information table (which we didn't have at that show) would go a long way in low-cost S promotion. NASG could support such a presence in any way feasible.....NASG tablecovers (preferably one that doesn't have to get mailed back and forth all the time), literature packs, display material, whatever. ....the kind of thing that John Foley does so well at many eastern shows each year! So, there's my pitch to the new BOT! Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@... <<< From: jseltzer@... Subject: RE: NASG 2002 Convention Dates I did not want to get inro a rant on the convention but.... I have been attending NASG conventions since 1973 and have attended most of them. I have attended most if not all of the joint NMRA/NASG conventions. I have been chairman or co-chariman both times our club (CVSGA) hosted NASG conventions in 1982 and 1992. The fact of the matter is that joint NMRA/NASG conventions are rather poorly attended by S gaugers when compaired to stand alone NASG conventions. Check out the registration numbers! (especially if the convention is in the eastern half of the country). What is the purpose of the NASG National Convention? You have to answer that one first. Is it the traditional "family" reunion of all S gaugers and our manufactures & dealers with our own contests and events totaly geared for us (the S gaugers (note not just scalers but all of us)? Or is the convention a promotional activity to show S scale to the "model railroading masses" and get new folks and manufactures on board. I guess the majority of existing NASG members have voted with their feet (by their attendence or lack thereof) on this subject no matter how much some of us wish otherwise. Back when I was on the BOT the subject caused a lot of discussion. We are trying to use one event for 2 distint purposes which mey in fact conflict. We tried to propose a compromise where every so many years there would be a joint NASG/NMRA convention. But I repeat, the turnout of NASG members at the joint conventions was not great. If most of the members want their own convention as an entertaining, engaging getogether and not a marketing/promotional event the have it that way. We will hoast a great NASG convention in Cleveland in 2002 in the tradition of the past. (We plan to invite NMRA Div 4 & 5 members to visit on one of the days and join some layout tours). I have found in my retail business life that in an event has too many purposes in never suceededs well in any of them. Promotions and marketing take focus. I really believe the NASG should be a leader in a crediable S presence at the NMRA national shows. I was the driving force behind my club's layout being at the NMRA National Train Show this year. Maybe the NASG booth should in the future have samples and literature from as many S manufactures as possible as most do not make it to NMRA shows. Our layout running Scale S and Sn3 did attract a lot of attention as did the large operating S Helper display and the other S Hi-Rail layout. The NASG should make an effort to involve the local S club in this type of event. Many of the suggestions made by others on this list should be considered for NMRA conventions....BUT is this a function of the NASG national?? I believe in facts and an examination of NASG member attendence at conventions should be the guide. That's just my oppinion, I could be wrong. Josh Seltzer ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 14 Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 17:46:10 -0400 From: Robin Thompson <robin@...> Subject: Re: RE: NASG 2002 Convention Dates Dear Josh, Wow, what a great concise analysis of the stated question of the two conventions. Thank you for your input. I too was disappointed in the lack of New S scale equipment or literature of non attending "S" manufacturers that could have been displayed at the 10' X 20' NASG booth. SP cab forwards, CN 4-6-0, E-8s, SD-60's, Budd cars (although a bit short), are all items that we saw at the S Spree this past spring in Columbus and were missed by the 17,000+ attendees of the National Train Show. Don T.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14025	From: Damian Brindell	Date: 7/20/2001
Subject: Re: lying L

The entertainer you are thinking of is Neil Young and the VC group is Wellspring Associates. See the following links. http://modelrailroad.about.com/library/dyk/blNeilYoung.htm?iam=dpile&terms=% 2Blionel+%2Bneil+%2Byoung http://www.detnews.com/menu/stories/17826.htm But please be careful what you say. If you p*** them off you will set back your cause instead of advancing it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "IronHorse" <cofa@...> To: <s-trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 9:41 AM Subject: [S-Trains] lying L > I would like to write the backers of the Lying L Co. > I forgot who the entertainer is, that is part owner. > Can someone fill me in? How about names and e-mail > addresses of Lying L Chief executive officers? > Any E-mail addresses of public relation places In Lying L > Co. location? > > Roger > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14026	From: Damian Brindell	Date: 7/20/2001
Subject: Re: more on Lionel/Wellspring

If you want details on the ownership of Lionel view this link. http://www.wellspringcapital.com/lionel.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "IronHorse" <cofa@...> To: <s-trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 9:41 AM Subject: [S-Trains] lying L > I would like to write the backers of the Lying L Co. > I forgot who the entertainer is, that is part owner. > Can someone fill me in? How about names and e-mail > addresses of Lying L Chief executive officers? > Any E-mail addresses of public relation places In Lying L > Co. location? > > Roger > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14027	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 7/20/2001
Subject: TM's AF2 - Good things come for those who wait.

Good News! Due to incessant demand (from me among others), "American Flyer 2" from TM Books and Video will be available about September 1, 2001. It features two S gauge layouts -- Mike Kolosseus' pure-Gilbert beauty and Ed Filkowski's six main line extravaganza. Mike's layout features many novel and original accessories assembled from Erector set parts. Ed's setup highlights American Models, S-Helper Service, and scale "S" trains, as well as American Flyer -- all provided with a colorful backdrop of Dept. 56 villages and scenery. 50 min. $19.95. Call TM Books (1-800-892-2822) for information and for ordering. And be sure to ask about the special value packages that include the AF Part 1 video, AF2 and the TM American Flyer S Gauge Illustrated Price Guide and History in various money saving combinations. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14028	From: The Reis's	Date: 7/20/2001
Subject: Re: TM's AF2 - Good things come for those who wait.

How old is the video of Mike K's layout? The interesting thing to note is that he took out his whole layout about 4 years ago and has been slowly building a new one. This probably makes this video "rare" as new ones cannot be made. His layout was a fantastic showplace as to what could be done with Gilbert flyer and Erector items, and I stress ONLY Gilbert Flyer items. Hopefully this has Mike explaining how many of the switching and Erector built accessories work, which if so would be worth it in itself. Eric Reis Kenmore, Wa. (about 15 miles south of Mike) -----Original Message----- From: rbubeck327@... [mailto:rbubeck327@...] Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 3:26 PM To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [S-Trains] TM's AF2 - Good things come for those who wait. Good News! Due to incessant demand (from me among others), "American Flyer 2" from TM Books and Video will be available about September 1, 2001. It features two S gauge layouts -- Mike Kolosseus' pure-Gilbert beauty and Ed Filkowski's six main line extravaganza. Mike's layout features many novel and original accessories assembled from Erector set parts. Ed's setup highlights American Models, S-Helper Service, and scale "S" trains, as well as American Flyer -- all provided with a colorful backdrop of Dept. 56 villages and scenery. 50 min. $19.95. Call TM Books (1-800-892-2822) for information and for ordering. And be sure to ask about the special value packages that include the AF Part 1 video, AF2 and the TM American Flyer S Gauge Illustrated Price Guide and History in various money saving combinations. RB S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14029	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 7/20/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, July 22, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14030	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 7/20/2001
Subject: Re: TM's AF2 - Good things come to those who wait.

In a message dated 7/20/01 7:48:11 PM, finnhill@... writes: << How old is the video of Mike K's layout? The interesting thing to note is that he took out his whole layout about 4 years ago and has been slowly building a new one. This probably makes this video "rare" as new ones cannot be made. >> The footage is of the "old' layout. This is a first time edit and release for distribution. In that sense it is documentary in nature and worth having -- one of the reasons that some of us encouraged Tom and Joe to complete the project. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14031	From: Euell Johnson	Date: 7/20/2001
Subject: Re: American Flyer Trademark

Same thing EJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "busy-boy" <busy-boy@...> To: "slist" <s-trains@yahoogroups.com> Cc: <bigfoot@...> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2001 9:24 AM Subject: Re: American Flyer Trademark > Euell Johnson said: > >Common law is a body of law > >that exists from litigation and the court's efforts to find justice. It is > >the previous trials and appeals of the various courts. > > Isn't this "Case Law"? > > CZ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14032	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 7/20/2001
Subject: New poll for S-Trains

Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the S-Trains group: Would you consider buying any "New" American Flyer if more was made available? o Yes o No To vote, please visit the following web page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/polls Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups web site listed above. Thanks!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14033	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 7/20/2001
Subject: Re: New poll for S-Trains

You forgot to include a target for "It depends..." :^) Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14034	From: ronnat@cros.net	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: A F BY Lionel

Lets face it even if not currently registered the name American Flyer Gilbert ect. rightfully belongs to Lionel . They can have name but we still have the trains. and if they don't produce trains that you want then the loss is their's as things are different now as we have other manufactures that can and will produce things that Lionel can't or won't. Just look at American Models and S Helper they have done cars and engs. that Lionel never could do or would do .

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14035	From: Rick Evans	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Re: New poll for S-Trains

I guess the keyword in the question is...."Consider". Rick. :-)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14036	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: LIONEL LISCENSING PROGRAM

There has been a lot of space debating the unauthorized production of American Flyer/Gilbert shirts. These are lovely items and I regret not buying one prior to them being pulled. I think those who feel strongly that Lionel LLC has done a terrible thing might like to read the article in the June edition (Run 180) of O GAUGE RAILROADING MAGAZINE. This is will give you a better understanding of the licensing program which is a profit center for Lionel which earns them " millions". How the Program Works: A license must submit a business plan with a sample of a product that is similar to the proposed Lionel ( or Lionel owned) branded item. The business plan must include the usual financials , projected sales, advertising support, distribution /sales channels and many other business details ( such as has the applicant done any other licensing projects?) . There is a minimum percentage that the licensee must pay to Lionel LLC on the product and a minimum guarantee of dollars that go to Lionel, regardless of the success or lack of success in the marketplace. Licensing is a revenue stream for Lionel LLC, and creates awareness of the Lionel brand to consumers that might not be into model railroading ( but may become interested as a result).Thus it is a positive thing for Lionel and the industry. Lionel action about the shirts may seem extreme, but they are a business, and a business that wants to protect their brand(s). So instead of writing to them and calling them names, why not write to their director of Communications and Licensing - Julie laird,and encourage her to seek licensing products for the American Flyer brand? If such items would increase awareness ( and thus demand) of AF, perhaps Lionel LLC would be more willing to produce more in the AF line.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14037	From: rgajnak@earthlink.net	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: In Defense of Lionel

***WARNING*** If you have a chip on your shoulder about Lionel, hit the "delete" key now. First, I would hope that anyone contacting a Lionel or Wellspring shareholder or executive would do it thoughtfully. An email similar to some of those that have been flying around on the list will not do the American Flyer cause any good. Second, I stopped buying American Flyer several years ago,(and Lionel "O" even longer ago) due primarily to what I perceived as major quality problems. That said, I would now like to present a small defense of Lionel. The current Lionel CEO, Richard Maddox, has a background in the model train industry, something some of the past CEO's have not had. He was responsible for Bachmann's "Spectrum" line, which has become one of HO scale's premier offerings. Mr. Maddox has been in the CEO position for about 2 years. His primary concern is to deal with the hemmoraging caused by customer defections to MTH, Atlas O and others. I would venture to say that at this point in time, there will not be any serious attempt in American Flyer unless MTH does something more than accessory reproductions. Since Mr. Maddox became CEO at Lionel, I've noticed an improvement in the "O" product line, particularly with the new offerings. I just saw the "Lionmaster" Challenger last night. It is a magnificent locomotive for the 031 crowd, and it beats the pants off of MTH's "Railking" Challengers. Lionel's recent new O scale 4-6-2's, 4-8-2's and 2-6-6-2's are also very nice indeed. And, they also run well. "Classic" Lionel however, even though there have been some mechanical and quality improvements, still looks like the same old thing in new paint. Additionally, one thing that Lionel has become is a VERY good electronic's company. The TMCC system has become the standard for the 3-rail folks, and Railsounds 2.0 is one of the best sound systems on the market. The electronics alone will prevent Lionel from going under. Even though I don't consider myself a true American Flyer enthusiast, I would hope that some of the "O" product development and improvements eventually filter down to the American Flyer line. A strong American Flyer, backed by Lionel would be of great benefit to "S." Rich Gajnak

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14038	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Re: Track for scale and high-rail

Dear Lance, Our S scale and AF compatible nickel silver 155# rail flex track (code 125) will leave our builder the end of this month. The cost is $7.95 per 40" section (6/giftbox) or $7.50 for bulk shipments (24/case). We will start to ship the end of August You can find code 125 switches and crossings from BK at: http://www.troutcreekeng.com/bk_s.html Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. lancemccold@... wrote: > A friend and I want to build some S-modules. We want to run scale > equipment on the modules, but we want to be able to run flyer as well. > > We would like to use track that is as close as possible to scale that > still will allow AF to run. I understand that code 125 is the > smallest rail that can accommodate flyer wheels. Is that correct? > > We prefer to use flex track and #6 or larger switches. What would > people suggest? > > Thanks, > > Lance McCold > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 F-3s and Double Sheathed boxcars are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/emdf3s_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14039	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Re: AF dead...??

Rick Evans asked: >Maybe I'm the one confused here,...but what exactly do you mean by American >Flyer is dead?? I think we have a difference of opinion or meaning, of "dead". Dear Rick: A.C. Gilbert produced a limited number of items between 1946 and 1966. We've seen them all . . . many times. Collectors love variations so a collector will have 40 K-5 Pacifics to demonstrate all the relatively minor differences in production. If such minutiae is satisfying to you, then enjoy it. But here is the bottom line. There will be no further production of AC Gilbert Pacifics. Even if Lionel made one, it would be a modern Lionel Pacific. Nobody, except for a few scholars on holiday in Italy, speaks Latin anymore. No one invents new uses for Latin nor writes brilliant prose or sparkling poetry in the classic tongue. Modern people have no really functional use for Latin and it consequently has no growth. I know no one who jokes or makes Latin puns. In fact, while Latin was once the language that bound all Rome together as one, it is virtually unknown to Romans (except the Vatican) today. There are Latin manuscripts and Latin masses, but even their proponents cannot restore the luster of this once glorious tongue. Nothing new comes from this language. Anything written or spoken must adhere to scholarly interpretation which rigidly defines "real" Latin. It is tantamount to sin if you vary from the classic mold. This is why it is called "a dead language." Nobody, except for a few collectors, cares about American Flyer anymore. No one adapts new uses for Flyer items or kitbashes Flyer items to any substantial degree. Model railroaders have no use for Flyer because, while it was scale like, it really was a toy, so it is not being developed and has no growth. No model railroaders find Flyer to be a source of inspiration, even if they like "S" gauge. In fact, while Flyer was the attraction to "S" fifty years ago, except for the collector community, it is the stagnation of "S" today. There are Flyer fans with Flyer layouts, but even these are repititious shadows of a faded glory. Nothing new is made in Flyer. Everything made comes from old molds that aficionados will accept. Variation from this will meet derision as not being "real" Flyer. It has become a sin to even change the paint jobs or small details. This is why I pronounce American Flyer "dead." American Models made an ALCO PA set. It had accurate detailing, the correct nose contour, a great sound system, fantastic paint jobs, new roadnames, and motors in both A units. It was roughly the same price as Flyer. It was compatible with Flyer. What did all the Flyer nuts do? Spend the money on a rehash of the Silver Flash! There is no talking to dyed in the wool fans. They never hear the truth. Somewhere out there, someone is waiting for Babe Ruth to hit his next homer, breathlessly hoping to be first in line at Bette Davis next premiere, calling their travel agent for tickets on the Twentieth Century Limited. That's what I think about when someone says that American Flyer is far from dead. I don't care what Lionel makes. I don't care if a new guy buys the Flyer name and starts making trains. Either I like them, and want them, or I am not buying them. They have to be well scaled, loaded with features, and cool as hell. I've got all the Gilbert Flyer I'll ever want. Now I want some trains. Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14040	From: Howell S Jobbins	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Re: New poll for S-Trains

Made by WHO ??? and at what prices ??? and how goofy and out of AC Gilberts attempt at reasonable scale. Those late L-flyer with high sitting toy like executions are a joke and at more cost than a beautiful SHS, PRS, DOWNS and American Models piece. HSJ. On 21 Jul 2001 01:47:26 -0000 S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes: > > Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the > S-Trains group: > > Would you consider buying any "New" > American Flyer if more was made > available? > > o Yes > o No > > > To vote, please visit the following web page: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/polls > > Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are > not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups > web site listed above. > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14041	From: lancemccold@chartertn.net	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Points of interest near Myrtle Beach South Carolina

Week after next I will be vacationing at Garden City, SC, south of Myrtle Beach. Does anyone have suggestions for S-gauge or prototype points in the area? ... Just in case it gets too rainy, too hot, or too sandy to enjoy the beach ... ;) Thanks, Lance McCold

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14042	From: Howell S Jobbins	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Re: AF dead...??

Guys, Chris couldn't have said it better, beyond this your just beating your gums ! HSJ On Sat, 21 Jul 2001 10:48:02 -0400 Chris Zizzo <busyboy@...> writes: > > > Nobody, except for a few collectors, cares about American Flyer d. > > I don't care what Lionel makes. I don't care if a new guy buys the > Flyer > name and starts making trains. Either I like them, and want them, > or I am > not buying them. They have to be well scaled, loaded with features, > and > cool as hell. I've got all the Gilbert Flyer I'll ever want. Now I > want > some trains. > > Two to go, > Chris Zizzo > > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14043	From: Howell S Jobbins	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Re: [showcaseline] Re: [S-Trains] Track for scale and high-rail

Don, What is the difference in rail height to .148 ?? Thks HSJ On Sat, 21 Jul 2001 10:20:43 -0400 Robin Thompson <robin@...> writes: > Dear Lance, > Our S scale and AF compatible nickel silver 155# rail flex track > (code 125) > will leave our builder the end of this month. The cost is $7.95 per > 40" section > (6/giftbox) or $7.50 for bulk shipments (24/case). We will start to > ship the > end of August You can find code 125 switches and crossings from BK > at: > > http://www.troutcreekeng.com/bk_s.html > > Don Thompson > S Helper Service Inc. > > lancemccold@... wrote: > > > A friend and I want to build some S-modules. We want to run scale > > equipment on the modules, but we want to be able to run flyer as > well. > > > > We would like to use track that is as close as possible to scale > that > > still will allow AF to run. I understand that code 125 is the > > smallest rail that can accommodate flyer wheels. Is that correct? > > > > We prefer to use flex track and #6 or larger switches. What would > > people suggest? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Lance McCold > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > -- Don Thompson > S Helper Service Inc. > http://www.showcaseline.com > 1.800.465.0303 > F-3s and Double Sheathed boxcars are now shipping! > http://www.showcaseline.com/emdf3s_in_stock.html > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > showcaseline-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14044	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: [showcaseline] Re: [S-Trains] Track for scale and

Dear Howell, The tallest rail used by class one railroads in the US is 155# rail (this is the weight of one yard of rail in pounds). This was used primarily by the PRR on the New York to Washington and Philadelphia to Harrisburg lines. It was 8' tall and in S scale translates to 0.125" tall or code 125. Rail that is 0.148" or Code 148 would be 9 1/2" tall on the prototype. This is 18% taller than our rail. Don Thompson Howell S Jobbins wrote: > Don, > What is the difference in rail height to .148 ?? Thks HSJ > > On Sat, 21 Jul 2001 10:20:43 -0400 Robin Thompson > <robin@...> writes: > > Dear Lance, > > Our S scale and AF compatible nickel silver 155# rail flex track > > (code 125) > > will leave our builder the end of this month. The cost is $7.95 per > > 40" section > > (6/giftbox) or $7.50 for bulk shipments (24/case). We will start to > > ship the > > end of August You can find code 125 switches and crossings from BK > > at: > > > > http://www.troutcreekeng.com/bk_s.html > > > > Don Thompson > > S Helper Service Inc. > > > > lancemccold@... wrote: > > > > > A friend and I want to build some S-modules. We want to run scale > > > equipment on the modules, but we want to be able to run flyer as > > well. > > > > > > We would like to use track that is as close as possible to scale > > that > > > still will allow AF to run. I understand that code 125 is the > > > smallest rail that can accommodate flyer wheels. Is that correct? > > > > > > We prefer to use flex track and #6 or larger switches. What would > > > people suggest? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Lance McCold > > > > -- Don Thompson > > S Helper Service Inc. > > http://www.showcaseline.com > > 1.800.465.0303 > > F-3s and Double Sheathed boxcars are now shipping! > > http://www.showcaseline.com/emdf3s_in_stock.html -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 F-3s and Double Sheathed boxcars are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/emdf3s_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14045	From: Wayne and Alice Beachy	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: New Poll

If the poll were a presidential election, the results would be considered a sweep. As I type this the results are 70% would. Not even close. I guess those that say no-one would buy new Flyer are way wrong. I, for one, am not a collector, but I buy decent new Flyer to run on our modular layout. I have lots of SHS, AM, PRS, Downs, and other current production stuff, but it is too fragile to take to shows. When I did in the past, the things broke too easily. So I mostly run those on my layout at home. The old Gilbert was made as toys and will take more abuse. Since the new Lionel Flyer mostly uses the old dies it too will take more abuse, and looks better than Lionel O gauge toys. I will continue to buy "good looking" new Flyer to run on the modular layout and the others to run on my home layout. I also still would like to see someone make competitively priced S gauge toy trains so children 6 - 10 years old can be hooked on to something besides new 3 rail toy trains. Wayne [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14046	From: Howell S Jobbins	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Re: In Defense of Lionel

Rich, With survival on Mr. Maddox's mind, and a major war with competition, ---- and at some point a need to show a return on the heavy costs of the "O" war he has no chance to play in the field of "S". MTH could come in and he couldn't do a thing about it. ---- But we need to support our known and committed "S" players that have offered over the last 12-36 months a continuious range of new things, that have put so much life in "S" especially for us hi-railers, that I have a buying budget to last a long time. -----JUST NEED A ?-8-? base to modify into a range of variation in steam,---- and play with decoration varations of the exisiting new items and you've got years of great stuff. You would have a had time defining a vacant space for Mr. Maddox to play in. HSJ

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14047	From: Howell S Jobbins	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: [showcaseline] Re: [S-Trains] Track for scale and

Don, So I would have a .023 jump to blend in to .148 rail.(.148 -.125) Will rail joiners be your connecting system? I'd like to try it up against my exsisting rail, or have you already studied this ? I must say that the American Models flex track I have has been in place for about 4 years, and I have never had to clean it ever. The brass rails shine on the bearing surfaces, though I am in an attic location,(dry), and run the trains often. I've even got a Flyer Bashed 2-6-4 Tank engine using an AM single passenger truck, for power, that pulls a CNJ type 6 car commuter without hitting dead spots. Just anxious for some good closed frog switches so I can consider to mix more scale things with my Flyer and Hi-rail. This is further to my interest of your flex track, and as your prior mentioned, closed frog switches. The NYC F-3 runs great --- just the sound thing again.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14048	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: [showcaseline] Re: [S-Trains] Track for scale and

Dear Howell, Like the real railroads, we are investigationg a transition rail joiner that would match the top of our rail head to other codes of rails. Don T. Howell S Jobbins wrote: > Don, > So I would have a .023 jump to blend in to .148 rail.(.148 -.125) Will > rail joiners be your connecting system? I'd like to try it up against my > exsisting rail, or have you already studied this ? > -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 F-3s and Double Sheathed boxcars are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/emdf3s_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14049	From: Howell S Jobbins	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: [showcaseline] Re: [S-Trains] Track for scale and

Don, Transition rail ----------- GREAT IDEA, ------ You might even think of a brass casting, say 1or 2 " long that is .125 at one end and .148 at the other, and have rail joiners per rail used at each end. HSJ

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14050	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: [showcaseline] Re: [S-Trains] Track for scale and

Dear Howell, Not quite, a transition rail joiner would align the top of the rail head and web of rail while grasping the base of the rail at different heights. It would be the same length as one of our new rail joiners. Don Howell S Jobbins wrote: > Don, Transition rail ----------- > GREAT IDEA, ------ You might even think of a brass casting, say 1or 2 " > long that is .125 at one end and .148 at the other, and have rail joiners > per rail used at each end. HSJ > > The topic is S Scale please keep your messages 'on-topic'. > To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 F-3s and Double Sheathed boxcars are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/emdf3s_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14051	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Kitbashing (dead AF)

Lots of people kitbash American Flyer items. They are cheap, easy materials to work with, and mechanically simple, and Lionel, Marx, and other O gauge and even HO gauge bodies can be thrown into the mix. Decals and transfers are now widely available in S. Before and since the flood of allegedly Flyer compatible items arrived, I have kitbashed an Alco FA, a pair of F-3's, a piggyback train, extended New Haven coaches, 50 ft boxcars, double door boxcars, gondolas, cabooses, and so on. Other guys make articulated steam locos, work train equpment, lots of stuff. We say, if they don't make it, make it yourself. American Flyer operators are continually devising new challenges and meeting them. We find the combination of scale and toy elements, of childhood dreams and adult knowledge, is the perfect mix for big time fun. American Flyer traihns operate extremely well if properly maintained. The crisp freshness of diesel roar and choo choo cannot be matched by a tiny speaker and digital chips. And the American Flyer track system, with sound deadening rubber roadbed, train stopping switches and accessories, remote uncouplers that can be placed anywhere, easy to use trestles, train detection, and vairous other devices, is the best toy train track system ever made. So if you think your AF trains are dead, bury them! David Dewey will be along in about 7 minutes with a backhoe to dig them up. Tom Jarcho P.S.: The thread on Lionel and AF rights, trademarks, etc., is the most boring and long winded and essentially valueless topic we have beaten to death since I joined the list about 2 years ago. It's loong past time to find other things to chat about.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14052	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Flyer tooling rumor #1A

Greetings all, I was at my local multi-gauge train seller this morning and heard and interesting Flyer rumor/urban legand. Part one: Since Lionel has moved the manufacturing to China. They (Lionel) sold ALL tooling, fixtures and inventory at their Michigan factory to an auction house/liquidator. This part came from a fellow at the shop who read it from a trade magazine for the retail train trade. Part two: Bachmann bought the well travelled and underused flyer tooling and dies. The part came from a shop regular. Soooo. What do you all think? Fact, fiction or Urban Legend? Jeff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14053	From: honkelrs	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: American Flyer Turnout Problem

Can someone in the group explain what the problem is with ACG turnouts when the solenoid mechanism refuses to return the turnout to the straight position. It will work fine to position the track into the curve but will not return it to the regular position. Can the solenoid be replaced and, if so, where would I find replacement parts ? Much obliged for your help. Russ Sanford [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14054	From: ronnat@cros.net	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: A F turnouts

It sounds like the de tent / centering is out of whack . turn switch over & remove cover plate. look on the throw bar you will see a pointed metal block under another metal cover it is spring loaded on the throwbar is an adjustable/ moveable tab this should have the same amount of space on both sides when thrown . also check spring for proper strength as this is what holds the switch in position.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14055	From: Jim Carnes	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Repair Advice Needed - Caboose

Suggestions are needed on how to remove a stovepipe from an AF caboose shell (a 930). I need to repaint the shell and want to remove the pipe. Jim

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14056	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: A F turnouts

A F turnouts can almost always be repaired unless the base is deformed. i just overhauled 6 pairs, and the variety of things I found wrong with them was tremendous, but they all work fine now. The first thing is to determine if a problem is electrical or mechanical. ELECTRICAL Have you wired the switch correctly? Is power getting to the solenoid, and is that solenoid burned out? If power is getting to the proper coil, it will buzz. The resistance of a healthy solenoid (one side) is 1.8 to 2 ohms, according to Bob Hannon's book, which is reliable. If the resistance is less, the coil is damaged. It will usually show signs of burning. A damaged coil can be rewound with about 300 turns of #26 enamel coated magnet wire. Any soldered connection in a Flyer switch cannot be trusted. While it may look good, it may actually be a cold joint with a gap, or corrosion between surfaces. Check the soldered connections to the 4 terminal posts. Sometimes there is corrosion between a post and the ring tongue, the little part the wire is soldered to under the switch. They are different metals, and a bimetallic reaction may have occurred. If you find this, run a blob of solder from the center of the post's bottom to the tongue. MECHANICAL A mechanical fault may exist, such as corrosion on the plunger, a bent part, a snagged contact, a foreign object in the mechanism, excess glue from replacing the colored paper, and many other things. A caterpillar may have built a cocoon inside the solenoid! The spring and plunger that holds the switch in one position or the other may be jammed. Disassemble, test, observe, deduce, repair. Good luck! Tom Jarcho P.S. : To improve the flow of track current through a switch, it may be necessary to solder the rails to the small brass strips that hold them and have wires connected underneath. The contacts under the switch should be cleaned and reshaped, and the plunger spring may need to be refreshed. For more info, see the Roundhouse column in the Sept- Cot S Gaugian magazine.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14057	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Repair advice needed

To remove the stovepipe from the caboose, drill a stove pipe sized hole through a block of scrap wood. Place the body upside down on the block with the pipe in the hole and drive it out from the inside with a hammer and a punch, such as an awl, large nail, or nailset. The block of wood will support the body and prevent cracking if this is done correctly. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14058	From: mlmarmer	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Re: Points of interest near Myrtle Beach South Carolina

Lance, You could try the website, ww.hobbyretailer.com to search the area for train shoppes. I believe there is another search webites for train shoppes. Smething like trainshoppes. I think it is in Classic Toy Trains or S Gaugian. Of course the phone book is what most of us do when traveling. That's is the fun part of traveling, some good shoppes to find and some not so good, in that they have no S items. You may want to check out the Myrtle Beach Pelicans minor league baseball team for other things to do. It is a Class A team (lowest class in the minors, A, AA, AAA,) of the Altanta Braves and a new team in the Carolina League. The team is 3 years old and is very talented. The Stadium is brand new and is a wonderful place to watch a baseball game, even if you are not into baseball. Minor Leagues is very inexpensive form of nightly entertainment for the whole family with activities between the innings. Do a websearch for more information on the team, if that is a interest to you at all. Have a great trip to Myrtle Beach, Mike Marmer Germantown, MD

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14059	From: Euell Johnson	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer tooling rumor #1A

A week or so ago there was an auction notice on the Lionel site. Everything seemed to be for sale. That part is no surprise. Well, well. It only Bachmann bought the tooling, we might have a new, regular supplier of our stuff!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Tangeman" <jt12313@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2001 1:21 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Flyer tooling rumor #1A > Greetings all, > > I was at my local multi-gauge train seller this morning and heard and > interesting Flyer rumor/urban legand. > > Part one: > > Since Lionel has moved the manufacturing to China. They (Lionel) sold ALL > tooling, fixtures and inventory at their Michigan factory to an auction > house/liquidator. This part came from a fellow at the shop who read it from > a trade magazine for the retail train trade. > > Part two: > > Bachmann bought the well travelled and underused flyer tooling and dies. > The part came from a shop regular. > > > Soooo. What do you all think? Fact, fiction or Urban Legend? > > Jeff > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14060	From: ljcamp1@aol.com	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Re: AF dead...??

So Flyer is just a toy. What do you think S Helper,or American Models ,or any other of the so called "scale" models are. THEY ARE JUST TOYS also. They have no function in the world but for a little enjoyment for people to have in their spare time. So get off your pedestal and realize what and who is responsible for the enjoyment we all now have in "S" guage. It all goes back to AC Gilbert and his trains that got us all started in "S" guage. Enjoy your S scale trains, and at the same time respect and admire the history of where these trains came from. American flyer is not dead, it is enjoyed by a lot of people who want to relax and enjoy their trains for what they are, and not pretend (play) like they are the CEO of a real railroad.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14061	From: Jim Carnes	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Re: Repair advice needed

Thanks Tom and Ron for the suggestions. I think I will combine the two suggestions. Its raining today, but tomorrow I will warm the plastic up a bit in the sun before driving the stovepipe out as Tom suggested. Thanks again. Jim jarcho@... wrote: > To remove the stovepipe from the caboose, drill a stove pipe sized hole > through a block of scrap wood. Place the body upside down on the block > with the pipe in the hole and drive it out from the inside with a hammer > and a punch, such as an awl, large nail, or nailset. The block of wood > will support the body and prevent cracking if this is done correctly. ron inscho wrote: > after taking the body off of the frame I can usually push the pipe out from > the inside also since this plastic has shrunk some with age it don't hurt to > let the carbody out in the sun for a few mimutes as this will soften the > plastic a little making it easier to work with.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14062	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer tooling rumor #1A

I am not sure if it is true, but I talked to Lee Riley of Bachmann (who I have known for several years) at the MR People's Choice award last Friday in St. Louis, and he did not mention it to us. Lee told me once he had AF as a kid. I always thought that is how they ended up in the On3 business. Don T. PS Our builder in China (also for AM., S Scale America and Chesapeake Models) is now the new builder for Lionel. I am sure that any tooling of value would have been sent to China instead of being re-tooled. Euell Johnson wrote: > A week or so ago there was an auction notice on the Lionel site. Everything > seemed to be for sale. That part is no surprise. > > Well, well. It only Bachmann bought the tooling, we might have a new, > regular supplier of our stuff!! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeffrey Tangeman" <jt12313@...> > To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2001 1:21 PM > Subject: [S-Trains] Flyer tooling rumor #1A > > > Greetings all, > > > > I was at my local multi-gauge train seller this morning and heard and > > interesting Flyer rumor/urban legand. > > > > Part one: > > > > Since Lionel has moved the manufacturing to China. They (Lionel) sold ALL > > tooling, fixtures and inventory at their Michigan factory to an auction > > house/liquidator. This part came from a fellow at the shop who read it > from > > a trade magazine for the retail train trade. > > > > Part two: > > > > Bachmann bought the well travelled and underused flyer tooling and dies. > > The part came from a shop regular. > > > > > > Soooo. What do you all think? Fact, fiction or Urban Legend? > > > > Jeff > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 F-3s and Double Sheathed boxcars are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/emdf3s_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14063	From: David	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Re: American Flyer Turnout Problem

Russ, it could be something as simple as a loose wire or corroded contact, or as worse as a burnt out coil. Turn that turnout over and remove the plates (2) on the bottom. Look for any loose wires. If found, solder them back on. There is the two rail switch between the switch Y. Make sure that is making good contact and they are clean. On the motor end you will see a set of dual sliding contacts. Make sure these are clean and making contact. If all those fail then the one side of the coil is most likely shot. They are not too difficult to remove, chuck up in a drill and re-wind the offending end. They are not available new.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14064	From: David	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Re: Repair Advice Needed - Caboose

Jim, you should be able to tap it out from the bottom with a punch once the body is removed.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14065	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Re: New Poll

Wayne Beachy wrote: I, for one, am not a collector, but I buy decent new Flyer to run on our modular layout. I have lots of SHS, AM, PRS, Downs, and other current production stuff, but it is too fragile to take to shows. When I did in the past, the things broke too easily. So I mostly run those on my layout at home. -------------------------------------------------- Oh, I don't know...Admittedly, PRS cars are a bit fragile, and require special care in packing and transport, but AM and SHS are durable enough for the train show circuit. Matter of fact, during the past spring show season of two separate shows, our modular group only ran one Flyer train (and that was a Lionel/Flyer to boot) out of about 42 different trains run. (We generally change trains on the hour on the outside loop, and on the half hour on the inside loop, using trusty 0-5-0 switchers.) The other 41 trains consisted of AM and SHS, both scale and HiRail versions, and all survived unscathed. Be seeing you... Rich G. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14066	From: David	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer tooling rumor #1A

The Lionel tooling was in fact auctioned off as were tons of surplus stock and parts. Wheither Bachmann managed to purchase anything, I don't know but I am hopefull as they seem like a decent company willing to make stuff.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14067	From: IronHorse	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: TOYS !!! ???%3@

When visiting another model RR person It is inadvisable to call his trains, "TOYS". A comment like that I expect from the uneducated or Women. OPPS Sorry. As I said before. A toy is something you give a kid and aren't extremely concerned if it gets broken. Which was AF originally. How many wouldn't leave a 6 year old alone in the same room with your Gilbert trains. No longer Toys. American Models and others will never be toys, Because of there value. Their quality makes those items models. Because of the detail I would say models of museum Quality. Toys aren't well detailed and aren't close to scale. Fisher Price trains are Toys. Battery operated trains are toys. The Department store variety of LifeLike trains are toys. They are all cheap Throw a ways. Keep smiling. :o) Swing and Sway the "S" gauge way Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14068	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Re: New Poll

I guess those who say AF would sell are only 70% right. 30% of us wouldn't(that's nearly a third). Personally, I'll spend my money on the vastly superior AM and SHS products. Wayne and Alice Beachy wrote: > > If the poll were a presidential election, the results would be considered a sweep. As I type this the results are 70% would. Not even close. I guess those that say no-one would buy new Flyer are way wrong. > > I, for one, am not a collector, but I buy decent new Flyer to run on our modular layout. I have lots of SHS, AM, PRS, Downs, and other current production stuff, but it is too fragile to take to shows. When I did in the past, the things broke too easily. So I mostly run those on my layout at home. > > The old Gilbert was made as toys and will take more abuse. Since the new Lionel Flyer mostly uses the old dies it too will take more abuse, and looks better than Lionel O gauge toys. I will continue to buy "good looking" new Flyer to run on the modular layout and the others to run on my home layout. > > I also still would like to see someone make competitively priced S gauge toy trains so children 6 - 10 years old can be hooked on to something besides new 3 rail toy trains. > > Wayne > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14069	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Re: LIONEL LISCENSING PROGRAM

>There is a minimum percentage that the licensee must pay to >Lionel LLC on the product and a minimum guarantee of dollars that go >to Lionel, regardless of the success or lack of success in the >marketplace. Kinda sounds like they want all of the benefits win or lose, and none of the risk. No, that doesn't surprise me. Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14070	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Re: In Defense of Lionel

Rich Gajnak wrote: >***WARNING*** If you have a chip on your shoulder about Lionel, hit >the "delete" key now. Hmm. Well, let's just say there are those of us who've had a belly full of Lionel's claim to "care about AF", not to mention their continued inference that the problem with AF is "the market" (us). >Even though I don't consider myself a true American Flyer >enthusiast, I would hope that some of the "O" product development >and improvements eventually filter down to the American Flyer line. I sympathize with your hope, Rich, but it seems to me wishful thinking. What needs to filter down is a clue, and that to Lionel management (whoever that is at this writing). They simply do not understand S gauge, S gaugers, or the Gilbert AF concept. That's not likely to change with improvements to their O gauge line. >A strong American Flyer, backed by Lionel would be of great benefit >to "S." Very true. More importantly for them, it would be of great benefit to Lionel! Many S gaugers have been telling them that very nicely for decades, but they just don't see it. Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14071	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: WARNING

JUST A WORD TO THE WISE NORTHERNTRADERS IS BACK on E-bay.......Look at there feedback 9 complaints oin last 6 mo Theses were the guys that got caught shilling....MIke S

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14072	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Re: New Poll

Wayne wrote: >As I type this the results are 70% would. Not even close. I guess >those that say no-one would buy new Flyer are way wrong. Wayne, if I might paraphrase a Lionel executive: "...when the line WARRANTS it..." ...we'll buy it. >I have lots of SHS, AM, PRS, Downs, and other current >production stuff, but it is too fragile to take to shows. When I >did in the past, the things broke too easily Interesting. I've never had a problem at shows avoiding breakage of SHS or AM equipment. Funny thing, when we run our stuff at shows, I tend to be as concerned about scratching collectible Gilbert stuff as breaking new non-AF. I just give the SHS and AM equipment the same level of care I give my Gilbert Northern. My main concern with Flyonel is seeing that it isn't made to run long enough to overheat. Depending on the consist, sometimes that isn't very long. OTOH, I have no qualms about allowing any SHS or AM loco to haul the same consist non-stop for 8 hours. I might let a Gilbert loco go for as long as 2 hours before stopping it for a temperature/commutator check. >I also still would like to see someone make competitively priced S >gauge toy trains so children 6 - 10 years old can be hooked on to >something besides new 3 rail toy trains. Wayne, you're sounding a good deal like A.C. Gilbert. ;^) Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14073	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 7/21/2001
Subject: Re: TOYS !!! ???%3@

Roger wrote: >How many wouldn't leave a 6 year old alone in the same room with >your Gilbert trains. Yo! Over here! I wouldn't! Too nervous, I am. > No longer Toys. American Models and others will never be toys, >Because of there value. Well, in the broad sense meant by some, they all could still be regarded as "toys". The difference is, they're MY toys! :o) (Remember that commercial?) Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14074	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: Re: Kitbashing (dead AF)

Tom wrote: So if you think your AF trains are dead, bury them! David Dewey will be along in about 7 minutes with a backhoe to dig them up. 7 Minutes??? Gee I must be getting slow! Can't wait for the backhoe rental, hand me that old shovel!!!! Around this house, saying AF is dead is like saying there isn't a Santa Claus. . . . Of course, one might question the mental age of this house's occupants, at least one of them! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14075	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: Re: Kitbashing (dead AF)

> > Around this house, saying AF is dead is like saying there isn't a Santa > Claus. . . . THERE ISN'T and never was Larry

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14076	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: Where do we go from here?

I've been carefully reading your posts regarding AF from Lionel, etc. I guess the questions are: 1- Is AF dead? 2- Will Lionel ever wake up and revive the line the way it ought to be? 3- Should we move on and buy the highrail trains offered by others? 4- Can we get someone to make affordable entry-level trains sets for the kids who graduate from "Thomas"? For years I ran everything under the sun on my code 125 and 172 layout. I used "confusion cars" to mix Flyer, highrail and scale in trains with great results. I want to check out the new coupler that SHS has because I think that it's important to have a new reliable highrail coupler available. Anyway, I hope to talk to the members of the NASG BOT who are AF S Gaugers and get their views as well as continue to read your opinions here. I hope we can help you guys get what you want and need. Roy Hoffman

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14077	From: Rick Evans	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: Fw: AF dead...??

----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Evans To: busy-boy Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2001 1:25 AM Subject: Re: AF dead...?? Hi Chris, About collectors,...I am not one of those that need 40 or 50 K-5 Pacifics just to show a variation. Don't have the room, nor the money, nor do I need or want to collect them. I totally understand that any Flyer made today, is NOT "A.C. Gilbert" Flyer. Lionel itself has gone through many owners over the years, and any Lionel made now is NOT "Cowan" Lionel,...however, Lionel is still making trains and have a catalog full of trains and goodies that someone must be buying. Whether they be Lionel "purists",...or just like Lionel, the name is carrying on for these people, and of course if the "purists" aren't happy with the new stuff, they don't have to buy it. I see nothing wrong with hoping that maybe American Flyer could have new stuff back out also. DECENT stuff,...I am certainly not buying the recent rolling stock put out by Lionel!! Too expensive and doesn't even look that great! I had pointed out a few months ago when this topic surfaced,....NOTHING seems to be made the way it used to be! I'm a Chevy man,...but my six year old daughter can dent my truck with her little finger! Not made they way they used to be! I'll buy a Chevy truck again,..no vehicle is made the way they used to be, fancy gadgets, power this and power that,...but all plastic and made with old beer cans! I believe there is more then, "Just a few collectors", that care about Flyer. Seems to be quite a few outlets to buy and sell Flyer,..and several that repair Flyer. Checking the "S" clubs in the S Gaugian, quite a few are Flyer clubs, or Flyer and scale. The bottom of the NASG Dispatch states, "All aspects of S: Scale-Narrow gauge-American Flyer-Hi-rail". Seems the Flyer name comes up a lot for having only "Just a few collectors" out there that care about Flyer. I will agree with you that new Flyer would have to be cool! I'm no rivet counter however, don't care to be. But am very impressed when seeing a well detailed steam loco in any gauge. Like I had said,...as a company, American Flyer IS dead,...but to me, as long as magazines print articles featuring Flyer layouts, Flyer repair, etc.,....sellers are making money buying and selling Flyer,...new books on Flyer,...all the Flyer layouts across the states,... whether it be for nostalgic reasons or whatever,.. I feel Flyer is not dead,...which is my opinion, and your opinion is yours. I think you summed it up pretty good when you stated about new Flyer,..."Either I like them or want them, or I am not buying them". The point is,..I think there are quite a few of us out there that just want that option,.. ..the option to buy or not, NEW Flyer! If it doesn't meet the standards of rivet counters, or coolness,..then pass it by. One more note and I'll end this novel,....as a bass guitar player (a '77 Fender P-Bass), there are quite a few guitar pickers out there that feel new Fender guitars ain't what they used to be...and look for the older guitars,...and like Lionel, Fender has had several different owners over the years, and Fender still is going strong. Someone is liking, and buying the new gear!! The name continues,...I guess for me, I would just like to see the "American Flyer" name continue. Sooooo.....The "Babe" ain't playin' ball no more?? :-) Rick. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14078	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: Re: LIONEL LISCENSING PROGRAM

You are correct. They are protecting the integrity of the brand. Each time they say yes to a licensee they are taking a risk. They want to see quality products that will get great effort in distribution. If Bachman or some other manufacturer has brought the old Flyer molds, it will be interesting to see if the brand name goes with it...I would think that would be as valuable as the tooling! Michael eighthmile@... wrote: > >There is a minimum percentage that the licensee must pay to > >Lionel LLC on the product and a minimum guarantee of dollars that go > >to Lionel, regardless of the success or lack of success in the > >marketplace. > > Kinda sounds like they want all of the benefits win or lose, and none > of the risk. > > No, that doesn't surprise me. > > Chuck F. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ eighthmile@... wrote: > >There is a minimum percentage that the licensee must pay to > >Lionel LLC on the product and a minimum guarantee of dollars that go > >to Lionel, regardless of the success or lack of success in the > >marketplace. > > Kinda sounds like they want all of the benefits win or lose, and none > of the risk. > > No, that doesn't surprise me. > > Chuck F. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14079	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: Re: 102 car train

Dear Ed, Thank you for this report. Not bad for only 4500 hp. I am reading a PRR book on diesel1zation and they came up with the same results with there F-3 A-B-B-A lash ups. Interesting reading except for the part that they retired steam engines even faster once the first F-3s arrived on the property. Don Ed & Judi Loizeaux wrote: > This was an eventful day for S scalers in the San Francisco area. Our > regularly scheduled club meeting took place today with the expectation > that several of the new brass cab forwards would attempt to pull a > 100-car train. Since the cab forwards were delivered two or three weeks > ago and several folks in this area have them, the plan was to see how > many freight cars one cab forward could pull. Then, according to the > plan, double head and/or triple head cab forwards as necessary until the > 100-car train made it around the layout. > > So what really happened......??? > > Well, to start with nobody brought any cab forwards. There is no > sinister implication here -- just a statement of fact. Not a single one > showed up and nobody could relate a story of how well their cab forward > actually operated. I have to confess, I have not even tried to apply > electricity to mine yet either. Will it run? Heck, I couldn't say. One > fellow did say he admired his display model every day and might never > know if it actually ran or not. > > But Larry Hanlon did bring some SHS F-3s and he offered to put them on > the track to see what they could do. His A-B-B lashup pulled 96 freight > cars around the layout, up/down grades, around curves, etc. without a > wheel slipping at all. Then a few more cars were added. The train > totaled 102 cars and actually moved around the layout quite well until > it reached the steepest grade. The wheels slipped and the train > stopped. With a bit of help from an 0-5-0 (mine), the train continued > over the crest of the hill and down the other side without any > problems. In the 102-car train were 11 brass cars and 4 diecast flat > cars which were all quite heavy. In addition, several older cars were > without lubrication and rolled very non-easily. If only plastic/wood > cars were used and if all cars were lubricated and free rolling, the SHS > A-B-B would have easily pulled the 102-car train all around the layout > and up the 1.4% grades. Not a bad testimonial for the latest offering > from SHS. With an A-B-B-A lashup, even longer trains could become a > rather routine event. Amazing! > > Nobody out this way has purchased any of the new AM Budd cars. I > thought there would be at least a few club members with a set, but > unfortunately, everyone wants full length cars. Here is an entire club > with 25 members none of whom wants shorty Budd cars. Are we typical? > Or are we just a bunch of out-of-the-mainstream Californians? Any > ideas? > > The mechanics of running a 102-car train were quite interesting. I > thought that wheel gauge would be the primary problem, but it turned out > to be a nonexistent problem. The main difficulty was with coupler > height. As the pulling forces increased, the couplers really had to > match perfectly or else they would slip out of alignment and uncouple. > Larry rearranged cars to match coupler heights and the problem went > away. A few cars had air hoses that snagged on closure rails. These > were then bent up a bit. Lastly, lubrication was missing on several > cars and they did not roll easily at all. Rather than dealing with that > problem, the 0-5-0 provided a bit more horsepower on the up grade and > the train got over the top with a bit of a push. > > It was rather interesting to see such a long train winding it's way > along the tracks over/under itself and with the loco and caboose going > in opposite directions at the same time. Looked weird actually, but > interesting nevertheless. Not your usual sight. > > So..........how was your weekend?..........Ed L. -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 F-3s and Double Sheathed boxcars are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/emdf3s_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14080	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: 2 History lessons: was Kitbashing (dead AF)

HI all, Well first, Larry J. wrote me & the list that there never was a Santa Claus. Um, check your history, he is based on a real person (in Holland, I believe). It is true that the story has become legend, but so has AF, and legends "Live" as long as people believe in them! Second, and more important to this list at least, are the reports of the big L auction. It seems that no one learns from history! Back in '67 there was an auction, very similar to it, the ACG company liquidation. No, it wasn't a bankruptcy sale, it was a liquidation of the assets of the company. And now in hindsight, it is obvious that more care should have been given that auction so that tooling would have stayed together, as it still had (future) commercial use--as well as the paper documentation, which should have gone INTACT to a museum or library for archiving, as should any large corporation, as it almost always becomes important to future generations for study. Recently the UP bought up the SP (actually on paper it was the other way around!) and shortly thereafter threw away the SP archives. Some folks I know discovered this happening and went dumpster diving! UP now contacts them when they need some info! (they formed a SP historical archives in Dunsmuir). Even more recently the Dunsmuir museum lost it's donated facility. The two people in charge of boxing everything up for storage filled a dumpster with "unimportant junk" which my same two friends dumpster-dove when they found out and retrieved more railroad history including photographs of Dunsmuir taken in the 1870s! (Sorry, I just got this news and I'm really upset about it (the dumping), won't go into how many museum management rules this violated!) One would hope that we (as people or corporations) would learn from past mistakes--especially big L who has made them themselves already! (for instance the move to Mexico when they also lost some of their own tooling in the moves there and back). And the reports are coming out that not only was the auction poorly planned, it was mis-managed as well. I fully expect some investigations of the auction house based on what has been posted elsewhere already. From watch all this from "way out west" it certainly seems to me that Big L is also as "dead" as AF is now. I hope the demands of Big L's production doesn't force SHS out of their builder! Hmm that should be enough ammunition for another salvo of postings! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14081	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: Re: 2 History lessons: was Kitbashing (dead AF)

BASED ON a real person. That still makes him a figment of your pagan Mind. Just like the easter bunny and tooth ferry ABOUT LYIMG-L AUCTION. If you buy the tooling, you may not be buying the rights to produce the models. This happened with someone before. They produced models from the tooling and found themselves in court for copyright infringement. Thank you gentlemen Larry Jackman David Dewey wrote: > > HI all, > Well first, Larry J. wrote me & the list that there never was a San

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14082	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: Fate of AF tooling

Seriously doubt that (most of) the original AF tooling in Lionel's possession was auctioned off. Some indicators: 1. The TCA Toy Train Museum has contracted with Lionel for a rolling stock series that will eventually make up a TTM work train over the course of several years. 2. TTOS has an agreement for the 2002 convention car -- a boxcar. 3. Gabe and the coal loader are being made in China with original Gilbert tooling. 4. Less we forget, there are two tank cars (TTOS and NASG) that have yet to be delivered this year. And so on. On another matter of near future fun -- Shall be attending the NASG convention and I am very much looking forward to meeting with old friends again and making some new ones. I can't think of a better place than Steamtown for it. See ya there!!! RB PS: Dear Paul: I have not been receiving the S-Trains mailings for the last few days. I have been reading them by going to the board. Is there a problem?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14083	From: Rick Evans	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: (no subject)

lawrence jackman wrote: **(( BASED ON a real person. That still makes him a figment of your pagan Mind. Just like the easter bunny and {{tooth ferry}} ))** Are you referring to a boat/ship that halls teeth, or the magical little person that leaves money under your pillow for your tooth?? Speaking of the "Tooth Fairy", my daughter has it figured out! She just lost a tooth and put it under her pillow at her Mom's house and got a buck,..but the tooth was still there! Sooo...she brings the tooth to MY house and puts it under her pillow and gets another buck!! So there is no Easter Bunny, no Santa Clause, no Tooth Fairies, and the Babe isn't playing ball anymore?? Wow,..this list is bringin' me down! I'd better check to see if my trains are still here! Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14084	From: Rick Evans	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: Re: New Poll

Chuck Smith wrote: **((I guess those who say AF would sell are only 70% right. 30% of us wouldn't(that's nearly a third).))** Not to be picky,...BUT,...the 70% of us are NOT saying AF would sell,..but would "CONSIDER" buying new AF. Just wanted to clear that up since it is my poll. Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14085	From: Rick Evans	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: Re: New Poll

Chuck Smith wrote: **((I guess those who say AF would sell are only 70% right. 30% of us wouldn't(that's nearly a third).))** Not to be picky,...BUT,...the 70% of us are NOT saying AF would sell,..but would "CONSIDER" buying new AF. Just wanted to clear that up since it is my poll. Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14086	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: long trains

Congratulations to the crew of that 102 car freight train and to SHS for making the locos. I was wondering what radius curves were involved. In my attempts to run long freight trains, the limiting factor is shoestringing on curves. The longest train I have been able to run with Flyer trains on Flyer track is about 40 cars. Pulling power is not a problem -- it's keeping the cars on the track that's tough. Has anyone else on list had success with really long trains, and have tips, hints, or info to share on this topic? Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14087	From: Jim Carnes	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: Re: Fate of AF tooling

Just for the fun of it, I reviewed the auction catalog for the Lionel auction. The AF tooling was not included in the catalog of items being offered. There were several lots of AF rolling stock and AF locomotives as well as plenty of O gauge items. If they sold the tooling, it was as an unlisted item. Jim rbubeck327@... wrote: > Seriously doubt that (most of) the original AF tooling in Lionel's possession > was auctioned off. Some indicators: > > 1. The TCA Toy Train Museum has contracted with Lionel for a rolling stock > series that will eventually make up a TTM work train over the course of > several years. > 2. TTOS has an agreement for the 2002 convention car -- a boxcar. > 3. Gabe and the coal loader are being made in China with original Gilbert > tooling. > 4. Less we forget, there are two tank cars (TTOS and NASG) that have yet to > be delivered this year. > > And so on. > > On another matter of near future fun -- Shall be attending the NASG > convention and I am very much looking forward to meeting with old friends > again and making some new ones. I can't think of a better place than > Steamtown for it. See ya there!!! > > RB > > PS: Dear Paul: I have not been receiving the S-Trains mailings for the last > few days. I have been reading them by going to the board. Is there a problem? > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14088	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: Re: long trains

Dear Tom, This was originally posted by Ed on the S scale list and I posted it on the S train list as I thought it was interesting. Ed's layout is Flex track by Shinohara with code 100 rails, minimum radius is 48" and the equipment had code 110 flanges, not P:64 nor hi-rail. Most cars were AM or SHS or PRS plastic out-of-the-box freight cars of various types. Don jarcho@... wrote: > Congratulations to the crew of that 102 car freight train and to SHS for > making the locos. > > I was wondering what radius curves were involved. In my attempts to run > long freight trains, the limiting factor is shoestringing on curves. The > longest train I have been able to run with Flyer trains on Flyer track is > about 40 cars. Pulling power is not a problem -- it's keeping the cars on > the track that's tough. > > Has anyone else on list had success with really long trains, and have tips, > hints, or info to share on this topic? > > Tom Jarcho > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 F-3s and Double Sheathed boxcars are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/emdf3s_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14089	From: Tom Rolfsmeyer	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: Re: long trains

Tom, My longest train attempt was 32 cars, all I had at the time but suggestion for running long train consist I have are as follow: 1. Heavyest cars to the front. 2. Coupler heights must be even. 3. Use pike master cars only at the very end of the train. 4. Lubricate all the wheels before you start. 5. Break the curves into steps with strait track between the curves. Don't know why this helps but it does. 6. Go slow. Fast is a sure way to topple every thing. Tom Rolfsmeyer

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14090	From: IronHorse	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: Same Poll

> I guess those who say AF would sell are only 70% right. 30% of us > wouldn't(that's nearly a third). The actual percentage of sales would depend on how well the product is made and presented. A lot depends on the marketing and sales willingness to take chances and willingness to pay off buyers. It would take a lot to regenerate the general publics interest, but it could be done. Suppose an operating AF railroad was on display at Wal*Mart. And Arnold Swatszenager walks into the area and expresses how great the trains on display are. Great Commercial ? And later in a movie he is in his character displays a great interest In American Flyer. And during the same period of time He is in magazine adds (Non train) of all kinds. Also in computer magazines are articles on how American Flyer can be run by Computers. Suppose the Buyer of Wal*Mart was given a new Caddilac as a reward for purchasing lots of American Flyer items. Also, No more Casey Jones type of junk. Don't ya Awl Suppose the above will make sales go through the roof

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14091	From: IronHorse	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: Trains and Santa Clause

> Oh Yes there was a Santa Clause. Information was kept on the original Santa > Clause. The only difference was his name. I read an article on the original Clause. It started in a poor village In a small town in Europe. The idea spread to other towns using different Names for Santa. In many places around the world the name is different. Anyone that gives to the poor and needy and children is Santa Clause. Santa Clause resides in the heart of the giver. Santa gives without reservation and expects nothing in return. Whether or not you believe or not depends on you religion or emotional state of mind. Roger Hinds says, "It is Christmas every day at Crossroads of America" Come and see our Christmas tree. It is up all year round. As well as our halloween decorations. Crossroads of America is for the young and young at heart. Visit our web site at ----> Http://travel.to/cofa >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14092	From: IronHorse	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: Re: Where do we go from here?

Answers from me > 1- Is AF dead? Hopefully only dormant. Tain't buried yet. > > 2- Will Lionel ever wake up and revive the line the way it ought to > be? Not with the current owners. > > 3- Should we move on and buy the highrail trains offered by others? Of course we should support the others. Hopefully AF will get into the hands of a person that does not have a one track mind. Or is that 3 track? > > 4- Can we get someone to make affordable entry-level trains sets for > the kids who graduate from "Thomas"? Depends , does the "Someone" exist?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14093	From: IronHorse	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: Santa

OK, Holland. My Father is dead. Does that mean he is only a figment of my imagination? Santa was a real person also just a different name. Anyway I want to ask. You guys that don't believe in Santa. Is it because Santa doesn't give you trains for Christmas? Our people of higher powers that passed on. Jesus and the like. Are they figments of someone's imagination. There are official records on these people existence. Heck, enough of this. I think I will go run my AFG trains. MODEL trains, Heh :o)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14094	From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: Re: Santa

HAPPY TO TELL YOU.....JESUS WAS AND IS A REAL PERSON......WANT TO MEET HIM? AS ANY CHRISTIAN.....BOB > OK, Holland. My Father is dead. Does that mean he is > only a figment of my imagination? > Santa was a real person also just a different name. > > Anyway I want to ask. You guys that don't believe in > Santa. Is it because Santa doesn't give you trains for > Christmas? Our people of higher powers that passed on. > Jesus and the like. Are they

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14095	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, July 22, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14096	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: REligion

Mr. Conner: Please have the courtesy and the common sense to keep your religious beliefs to yourself, or at least keep them off this list. This kind of nonsense can destroy what we are trying to accompl;ish here. If you want to talk religion, I am sure there are places on the net where you can obsess to your heart's content. S list is not one of them. Mr. Conner, you ought to be ashamed of yourself for your rudeness, arrogance, and lack of sense and sensitivity. In case you haven't heard, there are many different outlooks on religion on this planet. Yours is only one of them. Get used to it. Preach somewhere else. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14097	From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: Re: REligion

I AM NOT OR WAS NOT PREACHING...JUST CORRECTING AN INCORRECT STATEMENT......I SEE THIS ON THIS LIST ALL THE TIME....BOB ----- Original Message ----- From: <jarcho@...> To: <S-trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2001 5:09 PM Subject: [S-Trains] REligion > Mr. Conner: Please have the courtesy and the common sense to keep your > religious beliefs to yourself, or at least keep them off this list. This > kind of nonsense can destroy what we are trying to accompl;ish here. If > you want to talk religion, I am sure there are places on the net where you > can obsess to your heart's content. S list is not one of them. > > Mr. Conner, you ought to be ashamed of yourself for your rudeness, > arrogance, and lack of sense and sensitivity. In case you haven't heard, > there are many different outlooks on religion on this planet. Yours is > only one of them. Get used to it. Preach somewhere else. > > Tom Jarcho > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14098	From: Dan Brindell	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: Re: long trains

Tom Jarcho wrote: > I was wondering what radius curves were involved. In my attempts to run > long freight trains, the limiting factor is shoestringing on curves. I am wondering, what is meant by shoestringing? I haven't heard that term before. Tom Rolfsmeyer wrote: >5. Break the curves into steps with strait track between the curves. >Don't know why this helps but it does. Train wheels drag on curves because the outer rail is longer than the inner one. The outer wheel gets to roll around the curve, but it is connected to the inner wheel by a solid axle. So the inner wheel has to slip a bit, because it doesn't get to roll, and it drags a little. Same reason why your car needs a differential. I can't prove it, but I am guessing that the total drag due to wheel slippage on a very long train has to add up to something. By sticking some straight sections in between the curves you are letting everything roll a little more easily. Dan Brindell

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14099	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: Re: long trains

Tom, I think shoestringing means when the train derails by being pulled inward on a curve. It can happen with a jackrabbit start or too many heavy cars behind light ones. Dan Brindell wrote: > > Tom Jarcho wrote: > > I was wondering what radius curves were involved. In my attempts to run > > long freight trains, the limiting factor is shoestringing on curves. > > I am wondering, what is meant by shoestringing? I haven't heard that term > before. > > Tom Rolfsmeyer wrote: > >5. Break the curves into steps with strait track between the curves. > >Don't know why this helps but it does. > > Train wheels drag on curves because the outer rail is longer than the inner > one. The outer wheel gets to roll around the curve, but it is connected to > the inner wheel by a solid axle. So the inner wheel has to slip a bit, > because it doesn't get to roll, and it drags a little. Same reason why your > car needs a differential. I can't prove it, but I am guessing that the > total drag due to wheel slippage on a very long train has to add up to > something. By sticking some straight sections in between the curves you are > letting everything roll a little more easily. > > Dan Brindell > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14100	From: Richard Snook	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: who would buy/sell ??

It has been pondered whether such concerns as Walmart and Ill include Target supersores would be interested in New AF -style product!!....well make it and package it so a set like Bachmanns On30 set...price it to retail at 150 bucks at Christmas...and Target will want 10000 sets at three distribution centres by late Sept..( for starters!!) .cant remember off hand what Walmarts response was....but was similar....beleive me....if you build it they will come....sellers and buyers alike... dont beleive me??....dont care anymore >:~)) Richard .s I liek the Arnie Idea.......maybe he could get some fellows like Stewart and Collins to chime in !! lol

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14101	From: BENJAMIN PERRY	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Conventions

I also was at the Valley Forge convention, and while I enjoyed it, I felt the S Gaugers were "lost". I think that Doug's suggestions are good ones. There is no solution that will please everyone, but we should all be willing to try different ones. Ben Perry ------ Original Message ----- From: Doug Peck Sent: Fri, Jul 20, 2001 10:30am To: <S-Scale@yahoogroups.com>; <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Subject: RE: [S-Scale] Conventions From the point-of-view of a "non-scaler", and a former NASG BOT member--- I am in TOTAL agreement with Josh's comments! Attendance of NASG members at joint conventions is very poor, compared to separate conventions.....and that includes my own attendance record! I've been to both; I dislike joint conventions. NASG gets lost in the NMRA convention routine. Valley Forge was one of my worst personal experiences. NASG members were scattered in different hotels all over the place, and we had very few strictly--NASG functions. There were many NASG members at VF that I never laid eyes on in 4 days. It was NOT a memorable experience for me (or actually, I guess it WAS!) Apart from my own business exposure, I anxiously anticipate NASG conventions as a place to visit with fellow S enthusiasts and acquaintances......folks I may only see once or twice per year. I do think that's what the focus of NASG conventions should be. That having been said, I ALSO think it is very important for NASG and S manufacturers to have a very visible presence at the NMRA events----both national and regional! That's where promotions come into play. Presence of a prominent S layout (preferably scale, or a layout capable of handling both scale and highrail) is a MUST. A booth area organized by NASG where S-only dealers and manufacturers can concentrate their displays is a MUST. As Don pointed out, space costs at the NTS are extreme, making attendance by many of the smaller S dealers and manufacturers prohibitive. But the shared space concept of the NASG booth, even though it may be display-only and not sales, is both do-able and important for promotions. Both need to be continued every year at NMRA. At the regional NMRA show level, local clubs should organize an S display and layout presence whenever possible. The Bristol Club, last year, had our layout operating at the HUB Division NMRA Show, and it attracted a tremendous amount of attention, and lots of questions. That, together with a "formal" manned S-Information table (which we didn't have at that show) would go a long way in low-cost S promotion. NASG could support such a presence in any way feasible.....NASG tablecovers (preferably one that doesn't have to get mailed back and forth all the time), literature packs, display material, whatever. ....the kind of thing that John Foley does so well at many eastern shows each year! So, there's my pitch to the new BOT! Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@... <<< From: jseltzer@... Subject: RE: NASG 2002 Convention Dates I did not want to get inro a rant on the convention but.... I have been attending NASG conventions since 1973 and have attended most of them. I have attended most if not all of the joint NMRA/NASG conventions. I have been chairman or co-chariman both times our club (CVSGA) hosted NASG conventions in 1982 and 1992. The fact of the matter is that joint NMRA/NASG conventions are rather poorly attended by S gaugers when compaired to stand alone NASG conventions. Check out the registration numbers! (especially if the convention is in the eastern half of the country). What is the purpose of the NASG National Convention? You have to answer that one first. Is it the traditional "family" reunion of all S gaugers and our manufactures & dealers with our own contests and events totaly geared for us (the S gaugers (note not just scalers but all of us)? Or is the convention a promotional activity to show S scale to the "model railroading masses" and get new folks and manufactures on board. I guess the majority of existing NASG members have voted with their feet (by their attendence or lack thereof) on this subject no matter how much some of us wish otherwise. Back when I was on the BOT the subject caused a lot of discussion. We are trying to use one event for 2 distint purposes which mey in fact conflict. We tried to propose a compromise where every so many years there would be a joint NASG/NMRA convention. But I repeat, the turnout of NASG members at the joint conventions was not great. If most of the members want their own convention as an entertaining, engaging getogether and not a marketing/promotional event the have it that way. We will hoast a great NASG convention in Cleveland in 2002 in the tradition of the past. (We plan to invite NMRA Div 4 & 5 members to visit on one of the days and join some layout tours). I have found in my retail business life that in an event has too many purposes in never suceededs well in any of them. Promotions and marketing take focus. I really believe the NASG should be a leader in a crediable S presence at the NMRA national shows. I was the driving force behind my club's layout being at the NMRA National Train Show this year. Maybe the NASG booth should in the future have samples and literature from as many S manufactures as possible as most do not make it to NMRA shows. Our layout running Scale S and Sn3 did attract a lot of attention as did the large operating S Helper display and the other S Hi-Rail layout. The NASG should make an effort to involve the local S club in this type of event. Many of the suggestions made by others on this list should be considered for NMRA conventions....BUT is this a function of the NASG national?? I believe in facts and an examination of NASG member attendence at conventions should be the guide. That's just my oppinion, I could be wrong. Josh Seltzer ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 14 Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 17:46:10 -0400 From: Robin Thompson <robin@...> Subject: Re: RE: NASG 2002 Convention Dates Dear Josh, Wow, what a great concise analysis of the stated question of the two conventions. Thank you for your input. I too was disappointed in the lack of New S scale equipment or literature of non attending "S" manufacturers that could have been displayed at the 10' X 20' NASG booth. SP cab forwards, CN 4-6-0, E-8s, SD-60's, Budd cars (although a bit short), are all items that we saw at the S Spree this past spring in Columbus and were missed by the 17,000+ attendees of the National Train Show. Don T. The topic is S Scale please keep your messages 'on-topic'. To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14102	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: Re: long trains

Lubricate with teflon powder, not oil of any kind. As opposed to stepping curves with straight track long radius curves with Gradual transitions to straight section or reverse curves are quite necessary. Longest train of any kind I have seen pulled (and up a 3.75% grade 31 feet long at that) was an HO ore train of 154 5.5 ounce each ore cars pulled by kitbashed ABBA s leaded throughout to over 1 pound each with 8 motors and traction tires. The tightest radius on the run was a 45 inch radius transitioning into a 63 inch radius reverse curve. This was at the old club in the Yonkers, N.Y. Tibbets Brook park Administration Building. I have never seen anything come close.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14103	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: Re: who would buy/sell ??

Dear Rich, Please let me know who would fund this project? Big stores expect 55% off of retail from your products, want to receive the merchandise right before the Christmas rush, then get net 90 (that means they pay 90 days after they receive the merchandise) and finally return all unsold merchandise or if they have a return policy for damaged goods in their purchase order, will damage all of the unsold stuff and return it. Bachman, Lionel. Lifelike... can afford this kind of investment. No one I know in S at this time can. If you have an extra US$650,000.00 hanging around, give me a call and we will have product for Christmas 2002. Don Richard Snook wrote: > It has been pondered whether such concerns as Walmart and Ill include > Target supersores would be interested in New AF -style > product!!....well make it and package it so a set like Bachmanns On30 > set...price it to retail at 150 bucks at Christmas...and Target will > want 10000 sets at three distribution centres by late Sept..( for > starters!!) .cant remember off hand what Walmarts response was....but > was similar....beleive me....if you build it they will come....sellers > and buyers alike... > > dont beleive me??....dont care anymore > > >:~)) > Richard > > .s I liek the Arnie Idea.......maybe he could get some fellows like > Stewart and Collins to chime in !! lol > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 F-3s and Double Sheathed boxcars are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/emdf3s_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14104	From: ronnat@cros.net	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: RE trains& SANTA CLAUSE

he stopped coming to my house in 1955 since then it's been pretty rough . Iv'e had to get MY own flyer since then .But i'm still looking for him because I think he still has lots of flyer he's been sitting on

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14105	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: Re: RUDENESS

Mr. Jarcho, It is not your place to attempt to intimidate , judge or comment on these types of statements. You are in this case the rude, officious, discourteous , intolerant commentator as you have been in the past. The only person who should address this is the list moderator. It is his AND HIS DECISION ALONE to critique, curtail or bar this type of discussion or comment. Display your intolerance elsewhere. In case you have not heard, freedom of speech applies to the printed and spoken word and includes religious belief and concourse. As you have so aptly demonstrated, common sense does not necessarily apply. Dennis Troini On Sun, 22 Jul 2001 17:09:51 -0400 jarcho@... writes: > Mr. Conner: Please have the courtesy and the common sense to keep > your > religious beliefs to yourself, or at least keep them off this list. > This > kind of nonsense can destroy what we are trying to accompl;ish here. > If > you want to talk religion, I am sure there are places on the net > where you > can obsess to your heart's content. S list is not one of them. > > Mr. Conner, you ought to be ashamed of yourself for your rudeness, > arrogance, and lack of sense and sensitivity. In case you haven't > heard, > there are many different outlooks on religion on this planet. Yours > is > only one of them. Get used to it. Preach somewhere else. > > Tom Jarcho > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14106	From: belairchevy@webtv.net	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1088.....train wheels and curves

On the "full scale" railroads the wheels have a slight taper of the wheel tread (the part that contacts the rail). This helps to center the wheel set on the track by applying pressure outward on the rail. The taper also allows the wheels to pivot on the curves to reduce any slipping by one wheel trying to turn faster than the other. As the wheels begin to wear the taper is reduced and can even become concave which increases the drag on the track. To help combat friction on curves the railroads use "oilers" which is a spray of oil that goes on the wheels just before a curve. Some locomotives have flange oilers for the same purpose. As a rule the big trains don't turn over on curves because their weight holds them down, however, poor train handling on the part of the engineer can cause cars to derail much like a jackrabbit start with an electric train. Modern locomotives weigh around 400,000 pounds. The amount of cars (tons) pulled by a locomotive is governed by the ruling grade where the train will run. Just thought I would throw this in for the heck of it. Bradley D. Eggeman Machinist (Wheel True Machine Operator) Union Pacific RR (Denver) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14107	From: Richard Snook	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: Re: who would buy/sell ??

Heheheh...what took you so long?? :-)) Unfortunately my pockets are bare.....we could always do a quick whip around!! ...lol Hey ...all jokes aside....i do actually understand the constraints imposed upon such a task...that wasnt the gist..though I knew a response would follow... the point was simply in answer to who would buy...and this was the suggestion...there are vehicle sfor such sales....did I say there was no risk , or hardship in getting there...dont seem to remeber writing that bit!!. The point was I beleive it could be done....do I have that money know...It is my belief structure...not trying to impose it on others....only offer it up!! ( there is a difference)... hmm 650...its gone up...( had arrived at 425) years ago...such is life!! (maybe not apples and apples either...doesnt really matter hey!!) Funny I was told they would want it a good 2 months before Xmas catalogs..still this could quite easily change, or differ. Target were seriously intersted, intrigued...whatever..... It like anything would be a calculated commercial gamblel.......... Its been a couple of years since I aired it....so there it is....well put it back in the cupboard.... well just throw it in the trash for now hey!! :-)) but keep going with the other stuff Don :-) >:~)) Richard Robin Thompson wrote: > Dear Rich, > Please let me know who would fund this project? Big stores expect 55% off > of retail from your products, want to receive the merchandise right before the > Christmas rush, then get net 90 (that means they pay 90 days after they receive > the merchandise) and finally return all unsold merchandise or if they have a > return policy for damaged goods in their purchase order, will damage all of the > unsold stuff and return it. > Bachman, Lionel. Lifelike... can afford this kind of investment. No one I > know in S at this time can. If you have an extra US$650,000.00 hanging around, > give me a call and we will have product for Christmas 2002. > Don > > Richard Snook wrote: > > > It has been pondered whether such concerns as Walmart and Ill include > > Target supersores would be interested in New AF -style > > product!!....well make it and package it so a set like Bachmanns On30 > > set...price it to retail at 150 bucks at Christmas...and Target will > > want 10000 sets at three distribution centres by late Sept..( for > > starters!!) .cant remember off hand what Walmarts response was....but > > was similar....beleive me....if you build it they will come....sellers > > and buyers alike... > > > > dont beleive me??....dont care anymore > > > > >:~)) > > Richard > > > > .s I liek the Arnie Idea.......maybe he could get some fellows like > > Stewart and Collins to chime in !! lol > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > -- Don Thompson > S Helper Service Inc. > http://www.showcaseline.com > 1.800.465.0303 > F-3s and Double Sheathed boxcars are now shipping! > http://www.showcaseline.com/emdf3s_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14108	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: test

test

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14109	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: test3

test3

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14110	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: test2

test2

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14111	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: Re: who would buy/sell ??

Concerning the sale of SHS at Wally Whirlled or Tar-JAY: Not meaning to flatter here, but frankly SHS (and AM) are too good to sell at such places. Even at Christmas, I wouldn't expect to find a train set of SHS quality in a Wally's toy aisle anymore than I'd expect to find LGB. (Although Toys 'R Us used to sell basic LGB starter sets, I don't think they do any longer.) Expected at such places are Life-like HO (very cheap), or those all-plastic (including track) holiday G gauge sets that go for $50 or so, i.e. throw-away- after-it's-been-stepped-on-or-chewed-on-by-the-dog-too-much trains. SHS is something to be found at a good hobby shop, or an upscale toy store like Toys International or F.A.O. Schwartz. Speaking of miniature trains and promotion, I don't think it's enough simply to promote well, though that certainly is important. But more important is to have a first-rate product line that is complete. By "first-rate" I don't mean "highly detailed", but rather possessing intrinsically a level of quality that is obviously high, that makes the product attractive in it's own right. Ever wonder how LGB got anyone's attention in this country, particularly in the '70s when toy trains were at an all-time low on the popularity curve? I don't recall them being promoted on TV. I remember the first time I saw an LGB train back in the '70s. It wasn't even in a train store. It was in a mall, specifically, in the window of a men's clothing store. The layout was a simple oval, part of a holiday display. The train was a small 0-4-0 tank engine pulling a couple of gons filled with watches, belts, and other store merchandise. That little engine ran constantly, all day, every day for a couple of months. Even without touching it, it was apparent that the train was of considerable quality with it's crisp castings and quiet, smooth-running operation. The store didn't sell trains, and G gauge hadn't caught on in the U.S. yet, but that train was promoting itself nonetheless. When I noticed LGB on sale at Toys International, I checked out the prices. Yi! $500 for a locomotive!! But when I took a close look at how these things are built, the quality of the workmanship, and especially the materials used, I saw the reasons for the price. Sheer quality. HIGH quality. This was evident even in the plastics used. Even the simplest gondola body was molded from a tough, resilient plastic (probably some variant of ABS), the trucks made of some super-tough virtually unbreakable substance. No brittle styrene here! (Listen UP Lionel!) Lots of plastic to be sure, but very high-grade plastic. Consequently the equipment had a durable, resilient feel to it that exuded high quality. Combined with the level of precision of manufacture and the bright colors, well, the product was highly attractive on a subtle but very profound level. This was no cheap decoration to throw away, but a valuable object worth taking care of. Even though the scale was new (though not the gauge), the price was high, and the toy not particularly trendy ("Trains? Are you kidding? It's the '70s!), the line caught on big time. It sold itself. That is, I think, what any new S gauge line will need to be to catch on. High intrinsic quality (though not too detailed), accessible, eye- catching quality. THEN comes promotion. Of course, it will take somebody with the right vision and a LOT of money to do with S now what LGB did with G in the '70s. One advantage is that nowadays trains are "cool" again, which is nice. SHS comes very, very close, I just hope it isn't too detailed. Still, I could easily see SHS being sold at any of the places I've found LGB. Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14112	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 7/22/2001
Subject: (no subject)

One day a farmer's donkey fell down into a well. The animal cried piteously for hours as the farmer tried to figure out what to do.    Finally he decided the animal was old and the well needed to be covered up anyway, it just wasn't worth it to retrieve the donkey.    He invited all his neighbors to come over and help him. They all grabbed a shovel and began to shovel dirt into the well.    At first, the donkey realized what was happening and cried horribly. Then, to everyone's amazement, he quieted down.    A few shovel loads later, the farmer finally looked down the well and was astonished at what he saw.    With every shovel of dirt that hit his back, the donkey was doing something amazing! He would shake it off and take a step up.    As the farmer's neighbors continued to shovel dirt on top of the animal, he would shake it off and take a step up. Pretty soon, everyone was amazed as the donkey stepped up over the edge of the well and trotted off! Life is going to shovel dirt on you, all kinds of dirt. The trick to getting out of the well is to shake it off and take a step up.    Each of our troubles is a stepping stone.  We can get out of the deepest wells, just by not stopping, never giving up!  Shake it off and take a step up! Remember the five simple rules to be happy: 1. Free your heart from hatred. 2. Free your mind from worries. 3. Live simply. 4. Give more. 5. Expect less. Someone sent this to me to think over so I am forwarding it to you to do the same.                 Enjoy Your Week             SHAKE IT OFF!            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14113	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Re: Fate of AF tooling

If they sell the tooling they can still keep the right to producing the items from the tooling/ Im other words, they sold you the right to scrap the tooling or to display it in a museum. I am trying to remember who ii was that fell into that trap in HO scale. They bought the tooling and who parts an found themselves in court for violation of the copyright laws. Thank you gentlemen \Larry Jackman Jim Carnes wrote: > > Just for the fun of it, I reviewed the auction catalog for the Lionel auction. > The AF tooling was not included in the catalog of items being offered. There were > several lots of AF rolling stock and AF locomotives as well as plenty of O gauge > items. If they sold the tooling, it was as an unlisted item. > Jim > > rbubeck327@... wrote: > > > Seriously doubt that (most of) the original AF tooling in Lionel's possession > > was auctioned off. Some indicators: > > > > 1. The TCA Toy Train Museum has contracted with Lionel for a rolling stock > > series that will eventually make up a TTM work train over the course of > > several years. > > 2. TTOS has an agreement for the 2002 convention car -- a boxcar. > > 3. Gabe and the coal loader are being made in China with original Gilbert > > tooling. > > 4. Less we forget, there are two tank cars (TTOS and NASG) that have yet to > > be delivered this year. > > > > And so on. > > > > On another matter of near future fun -- Shall be attending the NASG > > convention and I am very much looking forward to meeting with old friends > > again and making some new ones. I can't think of a better place than > > Steamtown for it. See ya there!!! > > > > RB > > > > PS: Dear Paul: I have not been receiving the S-Trains mailings for the last > > few days. I have been reading them by going to the board. Is there a problem? > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14114	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: turnouts

Sometimes a contact post is loosened from previously over zealous tightening. Check that none of your posts spin. If so remove bottom cover plate and re-secure to base. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14115	From: Euell Johnson	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Re: who would buy/sell ??

Don is right. Wal-Mart is a tough customer. Sears used to have this reputation. I have seen merchandise sold to Wal-Mart that was obviously damaged at the store or customer level returned to the factory as "damaged as received" and for full crediit. Anything sold to them must be armored plated. To address the comments of others, SHS and AM are producing products with features (design quality) and finish (production quality) well in advance of anything produced by AF. But I would still like to see AF products, if for no other reason than the nostalgic value. My first train was an AF for Christmas in 1947. Dad (Santa Claus) carefully researched his choice for his sons. The two rail system was much more realistic than the three rail. The AF equipment was much more scale looking. And the electricals were safer for his seven and five year old to play with. Every year after that Santa Claus had a tradition of adding some cares, track, accessories, etc. to the basic train. We began to have a large layout for the Christmas tree. It was always planned to put together a permenant layout, but for a 101 reasons this never happened. I remember Santa Claus in his white shirt and tie setting back and smiling as his two sons played for hours with the train. Though 28 years have passed since his death, the trains are just one way of keeping my moemory of him fresh. And I associate the "play" with the AF. Now as I am older and more serious, when I want quality scale, I want SHS and AM. EJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Snook" <richard_snook@...> To: <robin@...> Cc: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2001 11:55 PM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] who would buy/sell ?? > Heheheh...what took you so long?? :-)) > > Unfortunately my pockets are bare.....we could always do a quick whip around!! > ...lol > > Hey ...all jokes aside....i do actually understand the constraints imposed upon > such a task...that wasnt the gist..though I knew a response would follow... > > the point was simply in answer to who would buy...and this was the > suggestion...there are vehicle sfor such sales....did I say there was no risk , or > hardship in getting there...dont seem to remeber writing that bit!!. > > The point was I beleive it could be done....do I have that money know...It is my > belief structure...not trying to impose it on others....only offer it up!! ( there > is a difference)... > hmm 650...its gone up...( had arrived at 425) years ago...such is life!! (maybe > not apples and apples either...doesnt really matter hey!!) > > Funny I was told they would want it a good 2 months before Xmas catalogs..still > this could quite easily change, or differ. Target were seriously intersted, > intrigued...whatever..... > > It like anything would be a calculated commercial gamblel.......... > > Its been a couple of years since I aired it....so there it is....well put it back > in the cupboard.... > > well just throw it in the trash for now hey!! :-)) > > but keep going with the other stuff Don :-) > > >:~)) > Richard > > Robin Thompson wrote: > > > Dear Rich, > > Please let me know who would fund this project? Big stores expect 55% off > > of retail from your products, want to receive the merchandise right before the > > Christmas rush, then get net 90 (that means they pay 90 days after they receive > > the merchandise) and finally return all unsold merchandise or if they have a > > return policy for damaged goods in their purchase order, will damage all of the > > unsold stuff and return it. > > Bachman, Lionel. Lifelike... can afford this kind of investment. No one I > > know in S at this time can. If you have an extra US$650,000.00 hanging around, > > give me a call and we will have product for Christmas 2002. > > Don > > > > Richard Snook wrote: > > > > > It has been pondered whether such concerns as Walmart and Ill include > > > Target supersores would be interested in New AF -style > > > product!!....well make it and package it so a set like Bachmanns On30 > > > set...price it to retail at 150 bucks at Christmas...and Target will > > > want 10000 sets at three distribution centres by late Sept..( for > > > starters!!) .cant remember off hand what Walmarts response was....but > > > was similar....beleive me....if you build it they will come....sellers > > > and buyers alike... > > > > > > dont beleive me??....dont care anymore > > > > > > >:~)) > > > Richard > > > > > > .s I liek the Arnie Idea.......maybe he could get some fellows like > > > Stewart and Collins to chime in !! lol > > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > -- Don Thompson > > S Helper Service Inc. > > http://www.showcaseline.com > > 1.800.465.0303 > > F-3s and Double Sheathed boxcars are now shipping! > > http://www.showcaseline.com/emdf3s_in_stock.html > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14116	From: sgriggs@umich.edu	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Re: Fate of AF tooling

I wonder if process equipment such as injection molding machines and stamping presses is being confused with the actual tools to manufacture specific items. The key difference is that process equipment is relatively generic, accepting the specific tools to mold car and locomotive bodies, or to stamp sheet metal parts. Such equipment would provide little value to Lionel's operations in China (especially if they were as old and outdated as has been reported) and it would be expensive to ship long distances. I think it could be replaced relatively easily with new equipment. Besides, why sell original tooling for marketable products to a potential competitor? Even for Lionel, it doesn't make sense. Scott --- In S-Trains@y..., rbubeck327@a... wrote: > Seriously doubt that (most of) the original AF tooling in Lionel's possession > was auctioned off. Some indicators: > > 1. The TCA Toy Train Museum has contracted with Lionel for a rolling stock > series that will eventually make up a TTM work train over the course of > several years. > 2. TTOS has an agreement for the 2002 convention car -- a boxcar. > 3. Gabe and the coal loader are being made in China with original Gilbert > tooling. > 4. Less we forget, there are two tank cars (TTOS and NASG) that have yet to > be delivered this year.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14117	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Re: who would buy/sell ??

Hi You all, There is a lot of Gilbert American Flyer available today without fighting with Lionel to get new produced. Just check out: http://www.americanflyertrains.com or http://www.afstrains.com Since I am developing a Reading Hi-rail prototype layout I am buying current S gauge in that road name but I have over 100 pieces of original Gilbert in my collection. Staying on the NPSG branchline of NASG track, Glenn Euell Johnson wrote: Don is right. Wal-Mart is a tough customer. Sears used to have this reputation. I have seen merchandise sold to Wal-Mart that was obviously damaged at the store or customer level returned to the factory as "damaged as received" and for full crediit. Anything sold to them must be armored plated. To address the comments of others, SHS and AM are producing products with features (design quality) and finish (production quality) well in advance of anything produced by AF. But I would still like to see AF products, if for no other reason than the nostalgic value.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14118	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: REligion/RUDENESS

Dennis, you are very confused. Very. On the one hand, you state that I have no right to express my opinion, yet on the other you defend freedom of speech. Please let your right hand know what your left is doing! 1. THE MAIN POINT: S-list is composed of people of many different backgrounds and beliefs who are joined together by a common interest. That's pretty neat! S-list addresses points of commonality. Religion is NOT one of them. When a statement is made on this list that one religion is better than another, which was the case here, of course it is disrespectful and rude. But more importantly, it threatens the success of this wonderful list. In case you haven't heard, religious conflict can be violent and divisive. I do not see why you cannot take this simple point. 2. THE SECOND POINT: Your scurrilous and uncalled for personal attack on myself is about the worst piece of garbage ever posted on this list. Since you posted it here, instead of emailing me off list as you should have done, I will answer it here. I do favor language that is blunt, precise, and to the point. However, those who know me will tell you that I am excessively courteous and especially, tolerant. Among my most intimate personal acquaintances, the people I've been closest to in my life and learned the most from, have been Catholics, Protestants, Bhuddists, Hindus, Moslems, Jews, followers of the Afro-syncretic religions, and atheists and agnostics. This richness would not have been possible were I "rude, officious, discourteous, intolerant" as you claim. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14119	From: IronHorse	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Re: REligion/RUDENESS

jarcho@... wrote: > I do not see why you cannot take this simple point. Seems to me what he was pointing out it has nothing to do with trains > > Since you posted it here, instead of emailing me off list as you should have > done, I will answer it here. As an observer, Seems to me Tom posted his original message here first. Over all, this forum is for train comments only. Otherwise, don't post it. I really didn't want to see all that religious stuff here, along with negative comments from different parties. There are other sites for that. Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14120	From: IronHorse	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Re: who would buy/sell ??

There should be a seal on the box. That says, Breaking this seal before purchase voids all warranties. Along with , Damaged boxes voids all warranties. Customer return receipt must be sent to the manufacture for verification. Lack of verification from customer voids return claims. Also on the main packing box to the store a label that says something like, signing a receipt for this box means nothing within is damaged. Inspect contents for damage. Return entire box with contents for replacement if damaged. Other labels could be applied perhaps. There are ways to protect oneself. Euell Johnson wrote: > Don is right. Wal-Mart is a tough customer. Sears used to have this > reputation. I have seen merchandise sold to Wal-Mart that was obviously > damaged at the store or customer level returned to the factory as "damaged > as received" and for full crediit. Anything sold to them must be armored > plated.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14121	From: roberte613@aol.com	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: A turnout question

This is probably a very basic question, but can anyone explain exactly what Code 3, 4,5, etc. means as it relates to turnouts? Thanks, Robert E.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14122	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Re: who would buy/sell ??

Dear IronHorse Two thoughts... , That more interesting than most "S" gauger Mr. R. Mercier once told me that you can sell anything as long as you remove as many roadblocks as possible. The problem is not the customer returning merchandise it is the large retailers. Don IronHorse wrote: > There should be a seal on the box. That says, Breaking this seal before purchase > voids all warranties. > Along with , Damaged boxes voids all warranties. Customer return receipt must > be sent to the manufacture > for verification. Lack of verification from customer voids return claims. > Also on the main packing box to the store a label > that says something like, signing a receipt for this box means nothing within is > damaged. Inspect > contents for damage. Return entire box with contents for replacement if damaged. > Other labels could be applied perhaps. There are ways to protect oneself. > > Euell Johnson wrote: > > > Don is right. Wal-Mart is a tough customer. Sears used to have this > > reputation. I have seen merchandise sold to Wal-Mart that was obviously > > damaged at the store or customer level returned to the factory as "damaged > > as received" and for full crediit. Anything sold to them must be armored > > plated. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 F-3s and Double Sheathed boxcars are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/emdf3s_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14123	From: Scott Holm	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: ERTL farm country train set

Does anybody know where I can get one of the Ertl 1/64 farm country train sets? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14124	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Re: long trains

Tom Rolfsmeyer wrote: > Tom, > > My longest train attempt was 32 cars, all I had at the time but > suggestion for running long train consist I have are as follow: > > 1. Heavyest cars to the front. > 2. Coupler heights must be even. > 3. Use pike master cars only at the very end of the train. > 4. Lubricate all the wheels before you start. > 5. Break the curves into steps with strait track between the curves. > Don't know why this helps but it does. > 6. Go slow. Fast is a sure way to topple every thing. > > Tom Rolfsmeyer > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ On my old layout of around the 4 walls with 42 to 60-inch radii, grades of just under 1%, I handled 52 cars with two FP-7s and a GP-18, no real attempt to consider weight for individual cars in consist, just took it easy. Did not attempt any backup moves, just took it easy. Which is the greater challenge to operate: a train of 50 freight cars, or a train of 15-18 full-length passenger cars. How about push-pull commuter operations, such as in Chicago, or a few other places.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14125	From: Tom Stolte	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: New decals from Oddballs Decals - N, HO, S & O scales

637 SL-SF URSA composite rebuilt gondola (10-40) Painted boxcar red. White graphics. Set will letter 2 cars. Intermountain kit. 638 MP, FMC -50' Combo door (3-76) Painted boxcar red. White graphics. MDC kit. 639 St. Johnsbury & Lamoilly County Railroad 50' boxcar. (8-75) Painted orange. Black graphics. MDC kit. 640 CNW, ACF 4650 3 bay centerflow (6-68) Painted grey. Black & white graphics. Atlas kit. Has the large CNW railway black & white herald. New catalog now on CD. PDF format. $5.00. Comes with Adobe reader. The N scale sets will letter 2 or 3 cars. S & O scale will letter 1 car. All the above decals refer to HO scale kits on the market. These will also work for other scales. Just pick a car of your choice in the other scales. Prefix numbers for N scale 60-. HO scale 87-. S scale 64-. O scale 48-. N & HO scale retail price $3.25. S & O scale retail price $6.50. These should be in your favorite hobby shop within the next month or so. If ordering direct, please include $1.75 for p&h. Up to date catalog N, HO, S & O scale, $6.00, plus $1.75 for p&h. You buy this catalog once, then every 3 months or so, send me a LSSAE for updates. Fits in a 3 ring binder. New catalog now on CD. PDF format. $5.00. Comes with Adobe reader. -- Tom Stolte - Oddballs Decals N, HO, S & O Scale Model Railroad Decals 26550 227th Street; McLouth, Kansas 66054 Phone: 913-727-6649 - oddballdecal@... Web site http://www.oddballsdecals.com/ Subscribe: OddballsDecals-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Missouri Pacific Photos Web Page: http://www.trainweb.org/mopac/ NMRA Member #121756 -- Tom Stolte - Oddballs Decals N, HO, S & O Scale Model Railroad Decals 26550 227th Street; McLouth, Kansas 66054 Phone: 913-727-6649 - oddballdecal@... Web site http://www.oddballsdecals.com/ Subscribe: OddballsDecals-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Missouri Pacific Photos Web Page: http://www.trainweb.org/mopac/ NMRA Member #121756

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14126	From: Euell Johnson	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Re: who would buy/sell ??

Customers like Wal-Mart want to be treated "special". The group of "LIKE" may include Target, Sears, K-Mart and others. First they want a special price or discount. This lets them buy at prices cheaper than a local retailer like a hobby shop can. Then they want "special" terms. They don't pay at invoice. They want "Net 60" or in most cases "Net 90". What that means is that they are operating on the operating capitol of the small manufacturer/supplier. If they don't get the terms, they won't stock the merchandise. Can SHS, AM, PRS or others get these termsd from their suppliers? Would any of us work for a company that did not pay us until 13 weeks after we did the work? Many companies now want a stale merchandise return agreement. By that it is meant that merchandise that has not sold in a specified time can and usually is returned to the manufacturer/supplier, no questions asked, and at his expense. Thus the small manufacturer/supplier has to have one hot product or he risks being unidated with returned materials that has the potential for putting him out of business. The big retailers like Wal-Mart, Sears, Target, etc. are very clearly limiting their risks. That makes the supplier the entreprenuer, the risk taker. A close friend of mine is a Gunsmith in an upper middlewestern town. Wal-Mart built a store there several years ago. When the Winchester man came around for a new order, he found the same merchandise as last year. My friend took him down to Wal-Mart and showed him that their retail price was less than what he having to pay Winchester. He finally turned the merchandise and evolved to a smithing business altogether. K-Mart had one of their blue light specials. Another friend of mine ran a garage. He had quit buying from the oil company jobber. He bought everything he could on the blue light specials. The filters, oil, plugs, etc. were cheaper that way than from the jobber. It increased his profits. As consumers we think the big retailers are great. But there is something wrong with a picture that has Wally, Sears, or someone else with that much control over an entreprenuer's business. It appears that the smartest move he can make is to develop a distribution system for his products that does NOT include them. EJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Thompson" <robin@...> To: "IronHorse" <cofa@...> Cc: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 3:03 PM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] who would buy/sell ?? > Dear IronHorse > > Two thoughts... > , > That more interesting than most "S" gauger Mr. R. Mercier once told me that you > can sell anything as long as you remove as many roadblocks as possible. > > The problem is not the customer returning merchandise it is the large > retailers. > Don > > IronHorse wrote: > > > There should be a seal on the box. That says, Breaking this seal before purchase > > voids all warranties. > > Along with , Damaged boxes voids all warranties. Customer return receipt must > > be sent to the manufacture > > for verification. Lack of verification from customer voids return claims. > > Also on the main packing box to the store a label > > that says something like, signing a receipt for this box means nothing within is > > damaged. Inspect > > contents for damage. Return entire box with contents for replacement if damaged. > > Other labels could be applied perhaps. There are ways to protect oneself. > > > > Euell Johnson wrote: > > > > > Don is right. Wal-Mart is a tough customer. Sears used to have this > > > reputation. I have seen merchandise sold to Wal-Mart that was obviously > > > damaged at the store or customer level returned to the factory as "damaged > > > as received" and for full crediit. Anything sold to them must be armored > > > plated. > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > -- Don Thompson > S Helper Service Inc. > http://www.showcaseline.com > 1.800.465.0303 > F-3s and Double Sheathed boxcars are now shipping! > http://www.showcaseline.com/emdf3s_in_stock.html > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14127	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Re: Final reply; safe attachment: read only if you wish: Mr Jarcho'

Thank you all. I shall not belabor this any longer. The attachment has been scanned and is safe. Rather than subject you to more verbose dialogue, Choose for yourselves whether you wish to read my final response. Mr Jarcho will be hereafter listed as "ignore" under my preferences. Dennis On Mon, 23 Jul 2001 12:47:09 -0400 jarcho@... writes: > Dennis, you are very much on the point. Very. On the one hand, I > have no right to express my incorrectly held and false opinion, yet on the other I defend > freedom of > speech. Please tell my right hand what my left is doing! > > 1. THE MAIN POINT: S-list is composed of people of many different > backgrounds and beliefs who are joined together by a common > interest. > That's pretty neat! S-list addresses points of commonality. > Religion is > NOT one of them. When a statement is made on this list that one > religion > is better than another, which was not the case here, it threatens the my vision of and the > success of > this wonderful list. In case you haven't heard, intellectual conflict > can be > violent and divisive. I see why you cannot tolerate this > point of my ignorance. > > 2. THE SECOND POINT: Your most appropriate though not personal > response to > my piece of garbage posted on this list, my recent rant against Mr. Conner. > Since > you posted it here, instead of emailing me off list as I should > have also > done, I will answer it here. > > I do favor language that is blunt, precise, pedantic, insulting and to the point. > However, > those who know me will tell you that I am excessively courteous and > especially, tolerant, to their face. Among my most intimate personal > acquaintances, the > people I've been closest to in my life and learned the most from, > have > been people. This > richness > was necessary because I have been "rude, officious, > discourteous, > intolerant" as you claim. > > Tom Jarcho > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > ---------- From: Dennis A. Troini <paladindennisalexander@...> To: jarcho@... Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 17:12:37 -0700 Subject: Re: [S-Trains] /RUDENESS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Full-Name: Dennis A. Troini Stop trying the intellectual superiority exercises on this forum. You know full well the difference between Freedom and privilege. You continue to practice excess of verbosity and intellectual bullying on this list. Keep it to yourself. Stop trying to "CORRECT" others to your way of thinking. Stop insulting individuals you browbeat, and the rest of us. You will attack others on the list but informing you of its inappropriateness is not permitted by you, your Highness. Control yourself. Think before you speak. And then, Do not speak. It is a lesson most of us learned long ago. As for the " ...scurrilous...personal attack... " TOUCHE you should have mailed Mr. Connor , as well as many others off list previously, rather than put us through your self indulgent rants. Finally, Your claim to favor language that is," blunt , precise and to the point", is yet another intellectualized excuse for insulting those you are addressing. Good bye. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14128	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Re: REligion/RUDENESS

Thank you Ironhorse/ Roger My final word was posted as an attachment so that members could choose to read or ignore it.. I shall not belabor this further. Dennis Troini On Mon, 23 Jul 2001 15:26:11 -0400 IronHorse <cofa@...> writes: > > > jarcho@... wrote: > > > I do not see why you cannot take this simple point. > > Seems to me what he was pointing out it has nothing to do with > trains > > > > > Since you posted it here, instead of emailing me off list as you > should have > > done, I will answer it here. > > As an observer, Seems to me Tom posted his original message here > first. > > Over all, this forum is for train comments only. Otherwise, don't > post it. > I really didn't want to see all that religious stuff here, along > with negative > comments > from different parties. There are other sites for that. > > Roger > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14129	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Fw: Returned mail: User unknown

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14130	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Re: who would buy/sell ??

Euell These policies, put in place by a number of manufacturers of marginally profitable items, are exactly the reasons they no longer are in Toys-R-Us and other super-outlets. Management of such simply could not accept them. Dennis On Mon, 23 Jul 2001 15:40:22 -0400 IronHorse <cofa@...> writes: > > There should be a seal on the box. That says, Breaking this seal > before purchase > voids all warranties. > Along with , Damaged boxes voids all warranties. Customer return > receipt must > be sent to the manufacture > for verification. Lack of verification from customer voids return > claims. > Also on the main packing box to the store a label > that says something like, signing a receipt for this box means > nothing within is > damaged. Inspect > contents for damage. Return entire box with contents for replacement > if damaged. > Other labels could be applied perhaps. There are ways to protect > oneself. > > Euell Johnson wrote: > > > Don is right. Wal-Mart is a tough customer. Sears used to have > this > > reputation. I have seen merchandise sold to Wal-Mart that was > obviously > > damaged at the store or customer level returned to the factory as > "damaged > > as received" and for full crediit. Anything sold to them must be > armored > > plated. > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14131	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Fw: Re: Final reply; safe attachment: read only if you wish: Mr Jar

--------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Dennis A. Troini <paladindennisalexander@...> To: S-trains@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 17:48:15 -0700 Subject: Re: Final reply; safe attachment: read only if you wish: Mr Jarcho's varied responses Thank you all. I shall not belabor this any longer. The attachment has been scanned and is safe. Rather than subject you to more verbose dialogue, Choose for yourselves whether you wish to read my final response. Mr Jarcho will be hereafter listed as "ignore" under my preferences. Dennis On Mon, 23 Jul 2001 12:47:09 -0400 jarcho@... writes: > Dennis, you are very much on the point. Very. On the one hand, I > have no right to express my incorrectly held and false opinion, yet on the other I defend > freedom of > speech. Please tell my right hand what my left is doing! > > 1. THE MAIN POINT: S-list is composed of people of many different > backgrounds and beliefs who are joined together by a common > interest. > That's pretty neat! S-list addresses points of commonality. > Religion is > NOT one of them. When a statement is made on this list that one > religion > is better than another, which was not the case here, it threatens my vision of, and the > success of > this wonderful list. In case you haven't heard, intellectual conflict > can be > violent and divisive. I see why you cannot tolerate this > point of my ignorance. > > 2. THE SECOND POINT: Your most appropriate though not personal > response to > my piece of garbage posted on this list, my recent rant against Mr. Conner. > Since > you posted it here, instead of emailing me off list as I should > have also > done, I will answer it here. > > I do favor language that is blunt, precise, pedantic, insulting and to the point. > However, > those who know me will tell you that I am excessively courteous and > especially, tolerant, to their face. Among my most intimate personal > acquaintances, the > people I've been closest to in my life and learned the most from, > have > been people. This > richness > was necessary because I have been "rude, officious, > discourteous, > intolerant" as you claim. > > Tom Jarcho > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > ---------- From: Dennis A. Troini <paladindennisalexander@...> To: jarcho@... Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 17:12:37 -0700 Subject: Re: [S-Trains] /RUDENESS MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Full-Name: Dennis A. Troini Stop trying the intellectual superiority exercises on this forum. You know full well the difference between Freedom and privilege. You continue to practice excess of verbosity and intellectual bullying on this list. Keep it to yourself. Stop trying to "CORRECT" others to your way of thinking. Stop insulting individuals you browbeat, and the rest of us. You will attack others on the list but informing you of its inappropriateness is not permitted by you, your Highness. Control yourself. Think before you speak. And then, Do not speak. It is a lesson most of us learned long ago. As for the " ...scurrilous...personal attack... " TOUCHE you should have mailed Mr. Connor , as well as many others off list previously, rather than put us through your self indulgent rants. Finally, Your claim to favor language that is," blunt , precise and to the point", is yet another intellectualized excuse for insulting those you are addressing. Good bye. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14132	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Re: REligion/RUDENESS

Dennis Troini wrote: >My final word was posted as an attachment so that members could >choose to read or ignore it.. Dennis, For some reason, the attachment didn't make it through Yahoo/egroups. could you em it to me? I'd be interested to reading it. Many thanx. Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14133	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Special Request for your Input - Off List

***** Please doe this today - right now ***** I am working on my NASG presentation on "S and the Internet" Here is my request: (please reply directly to yorke@... or s_trains@...) (short answers please) 1) Please tell me your 10 favorite (non-internet) model railroading activites. then (part two is optional) 2) Please tell me about your favorite internet-based model railroading activites. ===== Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com Photography - Computers - Trains __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14134	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Re: A turnout question

Larger numbers are wider radius. Actually the number refers to the angle of the turnout track. Someone who knows more can correct me but isn't it the tangent of the angle, like a #6 is the angle whose tangent is about 1/6? roberte613@... wrote: > > This is probably a very basic question, but can anyone explain exactly what > Code 3, 4,5, etc. means as it relates to turnouts? > > Thanks, > > Robert E. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14135	From: IronHorse	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Re: who would buy/sell ??

That is why I mentioned the comments to be put on the main shipping box. Also Comments meant to protect the Mfg. can be put on the shipping packing list to be signed by the receiving dept. person. The paper in effect would mean. Inspect the contents NOW or forfeit your right to refund or exchange. After it is on the shelf and is physically broken then it to bad for the retailer. He should display the item in a safe manner. The Mfg. should have reasonable packaging to protect the item should it get dropped. The package should be difficult for youngsters to open. It should have a warranty seal. Roger Robin Thompson wrote: > Dear IronHorse > > Two thoughts... > , > That more interesting than most "S" gauger Mr. R. Mercier once told me that you > can sell anything as long as you remove as many roadblocks as possible. > > The problem is not the customer returning merchandise it is the large > retailers. > Don > > IronHorse wrote: > > > There should be a seal on the box. That says, Breaking this seal before purchase > > voids all warranties. > > Along with , Damaged boxes voids all warranties. Customer return receipt must > > be sent to the manufacture > > for verification. Lack of verification from customer voids return claims. > > Also on the main packing box to the store a label > > that says something like, signing a receipt for this box means nothing within is > > damaged. Inspect > > contents for damage. Return entire box with contents for replacement if damaged. > > Other labels could be applied perhaps. There are ways to protect oneself. > > > > Euell Johnson wrote: > > > > > Don is right. Wal-Mart is a tough customer. Sears used to have this > > > reputation. I have seen merchandise sold to Wal-Mart that was obviously > > > damaged at the store or customer level returned to the factory as "damaged > > > as received" and for full crediit. Anything sold to them must be armored > > > plated. > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > -- Don Thompson > S Helper Service Inc. > http://www.showcaseline.com > 1.800.465.0303 > F-3s and Double Sheathed boxcars are now shipping! > http://www.showcaseline.com/emdf3s_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14136	From: John Foley	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Virus

Hi Folks I just received an email with a virus. My Nortons caught it. It came from a Dan Pantages Subject year 2000 John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14137	From: IronHorse	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Selling ideas for "S"

If Arnold Swatzenager said there GRrrrreat then one dept. store chain or another would want the item on the shelf. The hobby shops that normally don't buy "S" might take notice of Arnold and decide to give it a shot. Create the demand in different ways. Hey, a great looking woman enticing one to buy won't hurt. They do it at car and boat shows. If you can't get Arnold, How about Johnny Cash ??? :o) By the way has Everyone forgotten the modern way to get great sales. It is called A GREAT INTERNET WEB SITE. with good action and irresistible sales pitch. Read the crap advertising in the tabloids to get sales pitch ideas. A person can be terrific at coming up with a product. Find someone with great sales skills and a little bit of daring. How many "S" Manufactures have hired a professional marketing person? Where is your sales going doing it your self? Advertising in just train mags. does not get the info to the general public. What percentage go the public does not know your stuff does not exist. That needs to be fixed. Yes/No ??? Bribe the Wal*Mart buyer into forgetting the company rules. If the company finds out, but the item is popular they will buy more. Money talks. If you don't have any. Oh well. There are other ways. I won't mention them. I shall keep the devil in reign. However here is an outrageous idea . Nah. No. Maybe. Anyone want to hear it? It is a riot when you stop and think about it. Sure would give "S" a lot of exposure. To the extreme. I am almost rolling on the floor laughing at the sheer thought of it. It just might work though. Comment"S" ??? Swing and Sway the "S" gauge way. Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14138	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: REligion/RUDENESS

Dennis, you are very confused. Very. On the one hand, you state that I have no right to express my opinion, yet on the other you defend freedom of speech. Please let your right hand know what your left is doing! 1. THE MAIN POINT: S-list is composed of people of many different backgrounds and beliefs who are joined together by a common interest. That's pretty neat! S-list addresses points of commonality. Religion is NOT one of them. When a statement is made on this list that one religion is better than another, which was the case here, of course it is disrespectful and rude. But more importantly, it threatens the success of this wonderful list. In case you haven't heard, religious conflict can be violent and divisive. I do not see why you cannot take this simple point. 2. THE SECOND POINT: Your scurrilous and uncalled for personal attack on myself is about the worst piece of garbage ever posted on this list. Since you posted it here, instead of emailing me off list as you should have done, I will answer it here. I do favor language that is blunt, precise, and to the point. However, those who know me will tell you that I am excessively courteous and especially, tolerant. Among my most intimate personal acquaintances, the people I've been closest to in my life and learned the most from, have been Catholics, Protestants, Bhuddists, Hindus, Moslems, Jews, followers of the Afro-syncretic religions, and atheists and agnostics. This richness would not have been possible were I "rude, officious, discourteous, intolerant" as you claim. Tom Jarcho S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14139	From: David A. Highfield	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Re: REligion/RUDENESS

Dennis and Tom, Please take your discussion somewhere else, away from S-trains. Respectfully, Dave

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14140	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Re: REligion/RUDENESS

This has gotten out of hand and several people should be censored till after the NASG convention. I was away for 4 days last week and came back to over 100 S-Trains messages. What will we see after the convention? Why don't you work on your layouts and cool off! Glenn

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14141	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Re: Religion and Rudeness/RUDENESS

Gee it finds the need to repeat itself. You have infringed on every person in this list. For the last time THIS DISCUSSION< THREAD< DIATRIBE IS CLOSED GO AWAY On Mon, 23 Jul 2001 19:44:20 -0400 jarcho@... writes: > Dennis, you are very confused. Very. On the one hand, you state > that I > have no right to express my opinion, yet on the other you defend > freedom of > speech. Please let your right hand know what your left is doing! > > 1. THE MAIN POINT: S-list is composed of people of many different > backgrounds and beliefs who are joined together by a common > interest. > That's pretty neat! S-list addresses points of commonality. > Religion is > NOT one of them. When a statement is made on this list that one > religion > is better than another, which was the case here, of course it is > disrespectful and rude. But more importantly, it threatens the > success of > this wonderful list. In case you haven't heard, religious conflict > can be > violent and divisive. I do not see why you cannot take this simple > point. > > 2. THE SECOND POINT: Your scurrilous and uncalled for personal > attack on > myself is about the worst piece of garbage ever posted on this list. > Since > you posted it here, instead of emailing me off list as you should > have > done, I will answer it here. > > I do favor language that is blunt, precise, and to the point. > However, > those who know me will tell you that I am excessively courteous and > especially, tolerant. Among my most intimate personal > acquaintances, the > people I've been closest to in my life and learned the most from, > have > been Catholics, Protestants, Bhuddists, Hindus, Moslems, Jews, > followers of > the Afro-syncretic religions, and atheists and agnostics. This > richness > would not have been possible were I "rude, officious, > discourteous, > intolerant" as you claim. > > Tom Jarcho > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14142	From: Richard Snook	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: a fact of life

Some intersting talk here... It is a fact of marketing life that sales to large stores ..such as wally's etc will carry the premium of 5-10% probable returns and/or damae claims. This must be factored into costing in first place...now this might make it look even less a viable concern than it already is. But look a little sideways at other products....such as the "holiday" $50 buck set...the ERTL set etc..even crappy LifeLike HO sets.....these all fall out of stores at inexpensive price tags....now if we from the outset ....have a design , which is clever in its simplicity , yet faithful to a prototype...so no caricature sets here....but can be Generic!! ...then ...why not possible....some else is doing it..... Its not the territory for SHS ( I would think, no offence Don :-)...just you make such beautiful stuff!!), unless they wish another "brand" so that ppl dont confuse one quality with another... ....again I hale back to my dribblings of a few years ago...it needs to be viewed as "widget" territory that just happens to be trains.....these are attractive to Train PPL....Toy PPL....accessory top Dept 56 PPL..Grandma and Grandpas looking for a present...etc....it goes back to what AF was in the first place...they were toy model trains!!..a toy..on a shelf along with other toys....other choices...be they cars, erector sets.....jigsaws..etc etc... Even Lionel knows that their base sets are toys...aimed at toy buyers.... Dont get confused by the tag "TOY"..as if infering a lowly staus...not meant that way...just to categorise it...I mean..its not a power tool...it ( Train Sets ) are toys...so are Digimons, gameboys and Lego...and I certainly respect the design and integrity of them. YES SHS etc deserves a respected position say long side LGB and co. What S needs..and even the hobby in general....is a feeder set that isnt complicated....priced reasonably....ala Bachmann sets ( $140-160)........maybe ive already highlighted the problem...Bachmann already have it :-((....and there also lies proof of the pudding...they do it......Bachmann must surely be the NIKE of trains....and that takes nothing away from anyone else.. Don is right...you dont make it too hard to stock and sell something.....they simply wont stock it!! As for the HiRail Flyer requisites...gentlemen...you already have your saviours at hand!! Time possibly to Canonise Flyer....ascend it to Martyrdom....and buy whats on the shelves...AM..SHS etc...they are now...the other was then!! cheers >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14143	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Re: Religion and Rudeness/RUDENESS

I have tried Dave, I have told the other to get off and go away. But like a bad penny he keeps coming back, The discussion is about rudeness and self-importance not religion, and is disruptive to the list. But jarcho will not give up. I have had my last say and have so indicated. I have told him to go away. he will not leave the issue ,or me, alone.. Thank you for your patience, this can not be easy to have observed so out of place. I HAVE STOPPED. The Discussion is over. At least on my part. Dennis On Mon, 23 Jul 2001 19:48:32 -0400 "David A. Highfield" <davidh@...> writes: > Dennis and Tom, > Please take your discussion somewhere else, away from S-trains. > Respectfully, > Dave > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14144	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Re: Religion and Rudeness/RUDENESS

You are correct Glenn and I have stopped. The discussion is over. At least for me. Dennis On Mon, 23 Jul 2001 19:57:33 -0400 Glenn Ritter <gartrain@...> writes: > This has gotten out of hand and > several people should be censored > till after the NASG convention. > I was away for 4 days last week > and came back to over 100 > S-Trains messages. What will we > see after the convention? Why don't you > work on your layouts and cool off! > > Glenn > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14145	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Re: a fact of life

Richard, I believe the 5-10% is an exceedingly low number. My experience with holiday returns runs closer to 25% and this is whether or not anything was actually wrong/ damaged/misrepresented or inappropriate with the product. As another suggested, a Professional Marketing analysis is needed. Dennis On Tue, 24 Jul 2001 10:02:45 +1000 Richard Snook <richard_snook@...> writes: > Some intersting talk here... > > It is a fact of marketing life that sales to large stores ..such as > wally's etc will carry the premium of 5-10% probable returns and/or > damae claims. This must be factored into costing in first > place...now > this might make it look even less a viable concern than it already > is. > > But look a little sideways at other products....such as the > "holiday" > $50 buck set...the ERTL set etc..even crappy LifeLike HO > sets.....these > all fall out of stores at inexpensive price tags....now if we from > the > outset ....have a design , which is clever in its simplicity , yet > faithful to a prototype...so no caricature sets here....but can be > Generic!! ...then ...why not possible....some else is doing it..... > > Its not the territory for SHS ( I would think, no offence Don > :-)...just > you make such beautiful stuff!!), unless they wish another "brand" > so > that ppl dont confuse one quality with another... > ....again I hale back to my dribblings of a few years ago...it needs > to > be viewed as "widget" territory that just happens to be > trains.....these are attractive to Train PPL....Toy PPL....accessory > top > Dept 56 PPL..Grandma and Grandpas looking for a present...etc....it > goes > back to what AF was in the first place...they were toy model > trains!!..a > toy..on a shelf along with other toys....other choices...be they > cars, > erector sets.....jigsaws..etc etc... Even Lionel knows that their > base > sets are toys...aimed at toy buyers.... > > Dont get confused by the tag "TOY"..as if infering a lowly > staus...not > meant that way...just to categorise it...I mean..its not a power > tool...it ( Train Sets ) are toys...so are Digimons, gameboys and > Lego...and I certainly respect the design and integrity of them. > > YES SHS etc deserves a respected position say long side LGB and co. > > What S needs..and even the hobby in general....is a feeder set that > isnt > complicated....priced reasonably....ala Bachmann sets ( > $140-160)........maybe ive already highlighted the > problem...Bachmann > already have it :-((....and there also lies proof of the > pudding...they > do it......Bachmann must surely be the NIKE of trains....and that > takes > nothing away from anyone else.. > > Don is right...you dont make it too hard to stock and sell > something.....they simply wont stock it!! > > As for the HiRail Flyer requisites...gentlemen...you already have > your > saviours at hand!! Time possibly to Canonise Flyer....ascend it to > Martyrdom....and buy whats on the shelves...AM..SHS etc...they are > now...the other was then!! > > cheers > >:~)) > Richard > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14146	From: Richard Snook	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Re: a fact of life

"Dennis A. Troini" wrote: > Richard, > I believe the 5-10% is an exceedingly low number. My experience with > holiday returns runs closer to 25% and this is whether or not anything > was actually wrong/ damaged/misrepresented or inappropriate with the > product. > As another suggested, a Professional Marketing analysis is needed. > Dennis > Dennis , you may be right......my experince it retail was different...but that doesnt make anyone right or wrong.....and arguably mine wasnt with a larger store...but my own....private concern. it does serve to highlight a further conundrum in sales and marketing though.....thats the danger of over supply....i.e.....allowing one buyer too much....yep I know...also danger of not enough.....but to be honest whilst it goes against much wisdom, i would rather do the numbers, and sail closer to under-provision, thanblatant over supply....I dont really have an answer to that..( nor do the marketeers that I know...all have their own wsdom!! lol ) There is a lot of shenanagans in sales..D'oh!!...a freind here had product...he barrowed it around the traps....one wanted the lot...he refused...( big risk)...another wanted what he considered too risky an amount...he declined their first offer, but accepted a smaller order....one wanted exclusivity...he declined...bluffing them that three other stores were waiting for product ( they werent!!).....he still made one mistake though....he didnt make enough!! But alas he isnt in that business any more :-(( he made his money, not millions....but quite a sum...now develops condos....lol The point...oh yeah, the point.........as another professed....there is difference between designing and making a product.......and selling.........like any ailment...seek professional advice, and mentorship!! the interesting aspect of the Target scenario....was they wanted an exclusive product.....but got round that objection by offering 'exclusive" paint job and different graphics on box!!...damn..wish id had the 425 then!! lol :-)) back to the mundane!! >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14147	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Re: a fact of life

Thanks Richard, You have obviously put some thought into this. Perhaps we should try to work out a sub-group AND Especially include our reliable Retailers and Manufacturers from this list to work on a Discussion/Brainstorming session. Going to the super stores could seriously damage our loyal retailers , the last thing we need to do. Thank You, Dennis On Tue, 24 Jul 2001 10:41:41 +1000 Richard Snook <richard_snook@...> writes: > > > "Dennis A. Troini" wrote: > > > Richard, > > I believe the 5-10% is an exceedingly low number. My experience > with > > holiday returns runs closer to 25% and this is whether or not > anything > > was actually wrong/ damaged/misrepresented or inappropriate with > the > > product. > > As another suggested, a Professional Marketing analysis is > needed. > > Dennis > > > > Dennis , you may be right......my experince it retail was > different...but > that doesnt make anyone right or wrong.....and arguably mine wasnt > with a > larger store...but my own....private concern. > > it does serve to highlight a further conundrum in sales and > marketing > though.....thats the danger of over supply....i.e.....allowing one > buyer > too much....yep I know...also danger of not enough.....but to be > honest > whilst it goes against much wisdom, i would rather do the numbers, > and > sail closer to under-provision, thanblatant over supply....I dont > really > have an answer to that..( nor do the marketeers that I know...all > have > their own wsdom!! lol ) > > There is a lot of shenanagans in sales..D'oh!!...a freind here had > product...he barrowed it around the traps....one wanted the > lot...he > refused...( big risk)...another wanted what he considered too risky > an > amount...he declined their first offer, but accepted a smaller > order....one wanted exclusivity...he declined...bluffing them that > three > other stores were waiting for product ( they werent!!).....he still > made > one mistake though....he didnt make enough!! But alas he isnt in > that > business any more :-(( he made his money, not millions....but > quite a > sum...now develops condos....lol > > The point...oh yeah, the point.........as another professed....there > is > difference between designing and making a product.......and > selling.........like any ailment...seek professional advice, and > mentorship!! > > the interesting aspect of the Target scenario....was they wanted an > exclusive product.....but got round that objection by offering > 'exclusive" > paint job and different graphics on box!!...damn..wish id had the > 425 > then!! lol :-)) > > back to the mundane!! > >:~)) > Richard > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14148	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: What I Would Want In American Flyer

With all the brouhaha-hah that's gone back and forth about what Lionel should, shouldn't, did, didn't, might, might not do with the American Flyer product line, I would like to offer some thoughts on what would make me consider purchasing new American Flyer products by Lionel again. Let me reiterate that I am not a "true" American Flyer collector, (matter of fact, I'm a scale guy) but in the past have purchased both Gilbert and Lionel production that have struck my fancy, and now confine my HiRail purchases to products from the "other" manufactures that provide Flyer-compatible trains. Note that I am not asking for specific products at this time. I would expect the following from ANY manufacturer making a product bearing the American Flyer brand before opening my wallet. 1) Get rid of that gawd-awful diesel power truck. Move the motor to the center of the locomotive. I want to be able to access the gears easily and remove wheelset by removing a cover plate. Dissect an American Models or S Helper Service diesel to see what I mean. 2) The above would also hold true for any potential steam locomotive drive mechanism. See how the American Models 4-6-2's are put together for an example. 3) Bring that GP truck down to the correct wheelbase. 3A) I want a contemporary Flyer engine to run smooth and quiet, right out of the box, no tinkering required. 3B) Think beyond the PA/PB, GP7/9/20 and EP5. (That's about as specific as I'll get today.) 4) Forget putting Flyer trucks on Lionel's 0-27 cars. 5) Any potential new rolling stock should be at MINIMUM to the detail level of "Classic" 50's Flyer. Lionel's "S" clone of the 0-27 caboose is a perfect example of how NOT to do it. 5A) In reality, at this point in time, I would expect to see some greater detail on rolling stock without sacrificing durability. It can be done, S Helper Service is doing it. Note: I'm not really asking for fine scale models here, while "Classic" Flyer was well done in it's day, it's time for American Flyer to evolve. 6) Less bulky freight truck sideframes. 7) For the most part, Lionel has been doing a decent job in decoration, with a couple of exceptions. About the only thing I would want here is to ensure the car or locomotive carries it's prototype's number. 8) Exceptions in the above would be considered for bona-fide "Classic" Flyer reproductions. Now, I'm not gonna hold my breath waiting for this to happen. If I want Flyer-compatible HiRail today, American Models, S Helper, S Scale America and Pacific Rail Shops can and do easily supply me. If Lionel or "whomever" wants me to buy American Flyer products, "warmed over Flyer" ain't gonna do it anymore. Rich Gajnak [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14149	From: Euell Johnson	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Re: a fact of life

The Arnold Schartznegger idea is a good one. I wonder what he would cost. The good Lord knows that S gauge needs all of the promotion we can get. The point made by all is that the numbers have to be there. Everyone in the pipeline has something at risk. It that risk is successful, then there has to be a profit. Long term, there will not be a supply withoout the numbers and a profit. But there is something wrong when a Wally's, Target, K-mart, Target, etc. can sell products cheaper than a hobby chop can buy them. EJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Snook" <richard_snook@...> To: "Dennis A. Troini" <paladindennisalexander@...> Cc: <s-trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 7:41 PM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] a fact of life > > > "Dennis A. Troini" wrote: > > > Richard, > > I believe the 5-10% is an exceedingly low number. My experience with > > holiday returns runs closer to 25% and this is whether or not anything > > was actually wrong/ damaged/misrepresented or inappropriate with the > > product. > > As another suggested, a Professional Marketing analysis is needed. > > Dennis > > > > Dennis , you may be right......my experince it retail was different...but > that doesnt make anyone right or wrong.....and arguably mine wasnt with a > larger store...but my own....private concern. > > it does serve to highlight a further conundrum in sales and marketing > though.....thats the danger of over supply....i.e.....allowing one buyer > too much....yep I know...also danger of not enough.....but to be honest > whilst it goes against much wisdom, i would rather do the numbers, and > sail closer to under-provision, thanblatant over supply....I dont really > have an answer to that..( nor do the marketeers that I know...all have > their own wsdom!! lol ) > > There is a lot of shenanagans in sales..D'oh!!...a freind here had > product...he barrowed it around the traps....one wanted the lot...he > refused...( big risk)...another wanted what he considered too risky an > amount...he declined their first offer, but accepted a smaller > order....one wanted exclusivity...he declined...bluffing them that three > other stores were waiting for product ( they werent!!).....he still made > one mistake though....he didnt make enough!! But alas he isnt in that > business any more :-(( he made his money, not millions....but quite a > sum...now develops condos....lol > > The point...oh yeah, the point.........as another professed....there is > difference between designing and making a product.......and > selling.........like any ailment...seek professional advice, and > mentorship!! > > the interesting aspect of the Target scenario....was they wanted an > exclusive product.....but got round that objection by offering 'exclusive" > paint job and different graphics on box!!...damn..wish id had the 425 > then!! lol :-)) > > back to the mundane!! > >:~)) > Richard > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14150	From: TED R LARSON	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: stick to it

From Juno's monthly tip sheet. Glue Anything to Anything No matter how obscure the topic, the Internet is sure to have a Web site that covers it. Take gluing things, for example. If you need to find out what substance will make, say, metal stick to ceramic, just look it up on thistothat.com's glue-finder. Check out the glue-of-the-month section, read up on gluing philosophy�if it has to do with glue, you'll find it here. http://www.thistothat.com/ And two that you might use on the way to the convention. All Things Root Beer As summer wings its way over the land, who among us wouldn't want to cool down with a nice mug of chilled root beer? At Root-Beer.org, you can find out everything there is to know about this great traditional American beverage, from its history to a list of the more than 500 brands currently available. Plus, you can learn about brewing your own�and maybe start making your own root beer fortune! http://www.root-beer.org/ Great Places for a Summer Drive Your summer may include a road trip lying in wait for you. If it does, make sure to visit the site hosted by the U.S. Department of Transportation's Scenic Byways Program. There you'll find scenic routes in pretty much each of the 50 states�complete with maps, driving directions, as well as lists of gas stations, restaurants, scenic sights, and more. http://www.byways.org/index.html Ted Larson

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14151	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: an apology

I would like to apologize to the list members for creating a monster. While i did not write Mr. Troini's personal attacks or the material attributed to me by Mr. Troini, I did turn over the rock that enabled him to crawl out and bore us all so thoroughly with his 15 postings However, the point remains, that it is not a good idea to talk religion or politics on this list. It is also not good to make personal attacks on list. I attacked statements that had been made on list, not people, and am sorry if these were misperceived as personal attacks. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14152	From: Bill Lane	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: The Pennsy S Models X-29 Pilot Model is HERE!!

Hi All, S Scale's first brass PRR X-29 was just delivered to my house tonight for a photo session before the trip up to the convention. The pilot model was personally delivered by our builder with hours to spare. Please check www.pennsysmodels.com in a few days for the updated website with photos of the pilot model. Dan will be preparing the update as soon as possible. We will also announce our next project at that time. If you are going to the convention, please stop by our table to see us. Thank You, Bill Lane Pennsy S Models

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14153	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Re: an apology

To you alone. I have already apologized to the list. I asked that this end,but you must have the last word. I therefore offer this last apology to the list with an admonition and an invitation for you. I will no longer respond on list . Do not deny what you wrote , you chose what to attach and attack. And you continue, rocks to crawl out from under , Something you are intimately knowledgeable of AND EXPERIENCED IN DOING; boring members, something you have practiced since I joined this list; personal attacks, your forte even if veiled; Your 2nd paragraph reiterates My first posting to you , only from a diametric view. Mine from tolerance, yours from a need to inject your own belief system and lay blame on an innocent other for not adhering blindly to it.. YOU COULD HAVE WITHDRAWN OR APOLOGIZED THEN TO MR .CONNER AND THE LIST. there would have been nothing to go on about. YOU chose not to do so. Get with it , accept your responsibility and apologize to the list WITHOUT COMMENTARY or QUALIFICATION. If you would wish to re-establish some type of good will with the 52 members who have contacted me in support off the list, I would simply respectfully request that you repost the apology ending the first paragraph at the first period, and then include your entire second paragraph which is appropriate. If you wish at some time to contact me for a Friendly informative discussion, I will be glad to participate as you are obviously, at the least, intelligent with a clear understanding of what you believe whether or not I agree. My final ,last, terminal post on this. Good Luck. I will leave in peace not anger. And I actually do hope to here from you personally for intelligent discourse Dennis Mon, 23 Jul 2001 21:37:50 -0400 jarcho@... writes: > I would like to apologize to the list members for creating a > monster. > While i did not write Mr. Troini's personal attacks or the material > attributed to me by Mr. Troini, I did turn over the rock that > enabled him > to crawl out and bore us all so thoroughly with his 15 postings > > However, the point remains, that it is not a good idea to talk > religion or > politics on this list. It is also not good to make personal attacks > on > list. I attacked statements that had been made on list, not people, > and am > sorry if these were misperceived as personal attacks. > > Tom Jarcho > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14154	From: Rick Evans	Date: 7/23/2001
Subject: Re: Would you "consider" to buy poll.....

So far 51 members have voted.....maybe by the time I come back from Minn.,... the other 610 members may of cast a vote!! Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14155	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 7/24/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1090

Of all the "wisdom" dispensed on this list lately: the manufacturing and retailing advice, the discussions of religious freedom and the right to speech, the speculations on the fate of Flyer tooling, the history of the real Santa Claus, the gripping debate on trademarks and t-shirts: of all these, I found one tidbit of wisdom nearly thrown away at the tail end of a post. It deserves a closer look. Here it is: "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." -- Mark Twain Ol' Samuel Clemens was a man of many letters and a staunch advocate of arranging them into words. But he also knew that flapping one's gums with nothing to say led more to personal injury than to healthy discourse. I stopped subscribing to the TCA mail list because it became a 30 - 40 message a day pile of doggerel. I would rather see 4 or 5 well written, relevant, and to-the-point posts than 25 endless, frothing at the mouth letters, carping over who insulted whom. I am not telling anyone what to do. I am not interested in hearing a thousand reponses to this, defending another point of view. I am just simply stating how I feel about what has become of this list of late. I am not suggesting that I plan to quit my subscription, either, so this is not one of those stop-it-or-I'm-leaving posts. When I unsubscribed TCA, no one was aware of it except the moderator. I'm not making a fuss here. What I AM doing is suggesting that the current threads (not the technical threads, just the ones mentioned above) be voluntarily terminated by all members. Any possible thoughts on these matters have been more than thoroughly exhausted. The speculative posts have reached a ludicrous extreme beyond any practicality. There is no real thought behind any of it. Some of what has transpired has been hurtful and divisive. No one's interests are being served. "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain took a photograph in 20 words. I just provided the thousand words of caption. Let's all cooperate to achieve his kind of wisdom on the S-Trains list. Cordially, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14156	From: richard_snook@primus.com.au	Date: 7/24/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1090

> I am not telling anyone what to do GOOD!! >Any possible thoughts on these matters have been more than thoroughly exhausted On some perhaps...but at what time and by whos instruction may we resume?? > "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool past caring what others think!! So we all sit he saying nothing...?? lol By other off list mail I may suggest that some of hese matters lay very much at the heart of many...especially where and how commercially intersted parties may persue this market. I do get the gist of the message, as they say...there is the delete or other buttons to deal with this if it so offends as do these.................. apparently dots arent allowed either. do I care ....NO !! To sit in sufference an profer no other solutions or ideas may be even more foolish than even ol Sam might have imagined!! >:~)) Richard.....or should that be Huck!!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14157	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 7/24/2001
Subject: Re: Would you "consider" to buy poll.....

Yes Chris I would consider certain new items A. not previously produced B. Produced to a high standard Such as 944 crane. diecast flats. engines I.E Northern, Hudson, K-5, A NEW BERKSHIRE (New productions of the old type motors would be more expensive than good can motors today but a boon to repairs and rebuilders) C. Longer Radius switches, intermediate radius track, (longer radius but shorter than 054) D. Reproductions, but again to high standards, such as ALL under frames Diecast or heavy Gauge metals., fully compatible knuckle couplers, E. If a new track type, Plastic ties F. as elsewhere stated, single motor modes to gearbox and frames Comment: We can get most of this from AM, K-line, SHS ,PH, PCS and others. I suspect that Bringing back new Flyer diminishes there markets and possibly makes them non-viable. I would like to hear their comments. . On Tue, 24 Jul 2001 05:33:52 -0000 "Rick Evans" <comic@...> writes: > So far 51 members have voted.....maybe by the time I come back from > Minn.,... the other 610 members may of cast a vote!! > > Rick. > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14158	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 7/24/2001
Subject: ENOUGH IS ENOUGH ALREADY...I'M OUTA HERE

THIS GROUP HAS GONE DOWN HILL RAPIDLY AND LOST ITS FOCUS ON TRAINS. IF THIS IS A TRUE REFLECTION OF S SCALE AND FLYER, I NEED TO CHANGE TO A MORE MATURE GAUGE GENERALLY INTERESTED IN MODEL RAILROADING.- UNSUBCRIBE ME!!!!!!!!!!!!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14159	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 7/24/2001
Subject: Fw: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1090

----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Kuzma" <keithkuzma@...> To: <busyboy@...> Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2001 9:12 AM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1090 > > Take yor own advice.Shut up!!!!!!!! > Keith > > > > >From: Chris Zizzo <busyboy@...> > >To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com > >Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1090 > >Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 03:29:57 -0400 > > > >Of all the "wisdom" dispensed on this list lately: > >the manufacturing and retailing advice, > >the discussions of religious freedom and the right to speech, > >the speculations on the fate of Flyer tooling, > >the history of the real Santa Claus, > >the gripping debate on trademarks and t-shirts: > > > >of all these, I found one tidbit of wisdom nearly thrown away at the tail > >end of a post. > >It deserves a closer look. Here it is: > > > >"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool > >than to speak up and remove all doubt." -- Mark Twain > > > >Ol' Samuel Clemens was a man of many letters and a staunch advocate of > >arranging them into words. But he also knew that flapping one's gums with > >nothing to say led more to personal injury than to healthy discourse. > > > >I stopped subscribing to the TCA mail list because it became a 30 - 40 > >message a day pile of doggerel. I would rather see 4 or 5 well written, > >relevant, and to-the-point posts than 25 endless, frothing at the mouth > >letters, carping over who insulted whom. > > > >I am not telling anyone what to do. I am not interested in hearing a > >thousand reponses to this, defending another point of view. I am just > >simply stating how I feel about what has become of this list of late. I am > >not suggesting that I plan to quit my subscription, either, so this is not > >one of those stop-it-or-I'm-leaving posts. When I unsubscribed TCA, no one > >was aware of it except the moderator. I'm not making a fuss here. > > > >What I AM doing is suggesting that the current threads (not the technical > >threads, just the ones mentioned above) be voluntarily terminated by all > >members. Any possible thoughts on these matters have been more than > >thoroughly exhausted. The speculative posts have reached a ludicrous > >extreme beyond any practicality. There is no real thought behind any of > >it. > >Some of what has transpired has been hurtful and divisive. No one's > >interests are being served. > > > >"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool > >than to speak up and remove all doubt." > > > >Mark Twain took a photograph in 20 words. I just provided the thousand > >words of caption. Let's all cooperate to achieve his kind of wisdom on the > >S-Trains list. > > > >Cordially, > >Chris Zizzo > > > > > > > > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > >s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14160	From: Scott Holm	Date: 7/24/2001
Subject: MTH operating freight platform

Is this item appropriately sized for S gauge like the operating passenger platform is? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14161	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 7/24/2001
Subject: A turnout question

- Greeting`S' - Chuck Smith has hit the nail on the head, I think. The turnout number is the reciprocal of the tangent of the angle. But where is the angle measured? I believe that it is measured at the frog. Toy train trackage often has the turning out portion designed to be equivalent to a section of curved track. Making the measurement at the frog makes sense in that a specific point is designated as the place of measurement. It seems that a #12 turnout is fairly sharp for a real railroad. Cheer`S' Rhett George

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14162	From: gpmlg@aol.com	Date: 7/24/2001
Subject: subscribe

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14163	From: IronHorse	Date: 7/24/2001
Subject: Locomotive wanted

I would be interested in a Properly scaled Frankin & Washington locomotives. In "S" Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14164	From: G-WOLFGANG5@JUNO.COM	Date: 7/24/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1091

Re: Arnold As a potential semi- celebrity I am willing to go to some hobby shops and even Toys R Stuff and promote everything S for just a few F-3s and E-8s; and for a set of Budd cars I will wear my "Real Men Collect Trains" hat in an adult video... Stop fighting boys and talk trains.-Tom Hillery

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14165	From: pieter_roos@yahoo.com	Date: 7/24/2001
Subject: Re: A turnout question

Hmmm. The number of a turnout is the number of linear units per unit of divergence. In other words, the rails of a #12 turnout seperate 1 foot for every 12 feet of distance traveled. You can pick any units, the ratio remains the same (although inches or cm are generally more practical on model railroads). The measurement will be the same at any place on the turnout. Toy train turnouts which match the radius of the curved tracks don't really fit this geometry, and generally can only "approximate" a numbered turnout. Does any of this match a the reciprocal of the tangentof the angle? I don't know, it's been a long time since geometry class, and remembering or figuring one unit for each (turnout # units) is a lot easier. Pieter --- In S-Trains@y..., "Rhett T. George" <rtg@e...> wrote: > - Greeting`S' - > > Chuck Smith has hit the nail on the head, I think. The turnout > number is the reciprocal of the tangent of the angle. But where > is the angle measured? I believe that it is measured at the frog. > > Toy train trackage often has the turning out portion designed to > be equivalent to a section of curved track. Making the measurement > at the frog makes sense in that a specific point is designated as > the place of measurement. > > It seems that a #12 turnout is fairly sharp for a real railroad. > > Cheer`S' > > Rhett George

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14166	From: michael prell	Date: 7/24/2001
Subject: Re: ENOUGH IS ENOUGH ALREADY...I'M OUTA HERE

Dear Kite1, I have not been following this site lately, so I'm not really qualified to respond to what you've indicated other than by this. Please don't judge the gauge by some of those who profess to be authorities. I hate to use the paraphrase, but it's the Gauge, (the rest omitted to avoid insults). Over the past few years. I've found this site to be both informative and educationally exciting. Sadly, every now and then we tend to get a case or few of the stupids. Chalk it up to human nature or what ever. I'm not excusing it. I just hate like hell to see an interested party driven away from a really great hobby.Take care. --- kite1@... wrote: > THIS GROUP HAS GONE DOWN HILL RAPIDLY AND LOST ITS > FOCUS ON TRAINS. IF > THIS IS A TRUE REFLECTION OF S SCALE AND FLYER, I > NEED TO CHANGE TO A > MORE MATURE GAUGE GENERALLY INTERESTED IN MODEL > RAILROADING.- UNSUBCRIBE > ME!!!!!!!!!!!! > > > S-Trains list sponsor: > http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories > too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > ===== Being angry is the same as holding a hot coal in the palm of your hand. You want to hold on to it in order to throw it at another, but only hurt yourself in doing so. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14167	From: yorke@gate.net	Date: 7/24/2001
Subject: Poll results

Thanks for your FAST response. It is cool to think that I have so many friends out there that can help me when I need it. You guys are great. Here is what I found out. In no particular order, What you enjoy: (trains = model trains) 1) Building and repairing trains & accessories. 2) Designing, building , and modifying layouts. 3) Operating trains 4) Buying, selling, collecting, and hunting for trains. 5) Reading about trains & proto trains. 6) Railfaning - proto trains 7) Photography of proto & model trains 8) Sharing/Showing (very popular) with everyone and anyone. Lots of you talked about showing kids and other folks your trains, and creations. I could tell that it is what you enjoy the most. I know it is with me. Now I hope to use this as a starting point for my talk. What effect goes the internet have on these activities? But that is all I am going to say for now. Thanks again.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14168	From: milayman@aol.com	Date: 7/24/2001
Subject: MTH

The local dealer that I buy trains from canceled my order for the MTH #600 Crossing Gate. Is there a known reason why MTH canceled the crossing gate? Marvin

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14169	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/24/2001
Subject: Re: A turnout question

Pieter has it right, I just couldn't remember what the ratio was. As to #12s being sharp, most are between 8 and 12, when you get to 12 the railroad like to use closed frog turnouts! The yard at Portola (RR museum) is laid with mostly 8, some 8-1/2s and they has successfully pushed their Centennial around the balloon (albeit very slowly!) S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14170	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 7/24/2001
Subject: Re: mr>jarcho LEAVE ME ALONE AND STOP HARASSING ME. END THIS.

On Tue, 24 Jul 2001 17:49:06 -0400 jarcho@... (Jarcho) writes: > Your note was arrogant rude ignorant and as preposterous as everything > else you have posted. > You must be living on a different planet from the rest of us. > You are as wrong as two left shoes. > Get real. > > Tom Jarcho > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14171	From: Richard Snook	Date: 7/24/2001
Subject: another idea...warning!!

Fellow Essers An idea struck me the other day.....on occasions when the kids come over to Daddies'....lo and behold....one of their favourite toys is to grab the box of Train-stuf..set up their Track ( flyer , as it happens!!) and set to with playing with their Ertl set..they love it...well when older one isnt attending to his Digimon. Now ..what I have noticed over a period of time is that , like most kids they have an active imagination...too active..LOL :-) They will use anything and everything to create mini-scenes. Bits of lego become ppl, shoe box is a Station etc..they arent too critical of the scale hehehe. Heres the interesting part ( well i thought this had potential) they often draw up and colour in, then cut out, tape together buildings and such. It occurrs to me that the NASG, or someone could make a die cut colouring book, with houses, farm stuff,...you could have a series of themes indeed, designed in such a way as the good ol tab and slot, so the kids could assemble without glue and tape ( isnt that a good idea I hear other Parents sigh!!) Im not sure how heavy a cardstock would be ideal, leave that to those better informed; but it struck me that this is perfect sort of thing to have at conventions , mall showings etc. Make them affordable whilst still returning a modicum of profit for the effort to say the NASG. Now the Cutout (punch out ) City etc is not new, agreed but this application could provide the type of induction for kids to trains that we strive for, and even better to 1:64. cheers >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14172	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/24/2001
Subject: Re: MTH

I've heard lack of sales (er, orders) RATS!! S David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14173	From: mlmarmer	Date: 7/24/2001
Subject: Re: mr>jarcho LEAVE ME ALONE AND STOP HARASSING ME. END THIS.

Hello Dennis, You said awhile back you were done with this discussion on religion. So why do you keep bringing it back up on this site. There was no email on S Trains today from Tom about it, so the statement you copied must be from a private email from Tom Jarcho. If you didn't like his private email, you need to take it up with him private. Please don't turn this site into a soap opera between you and Tom. I see no end to this. Please do your rebuttal to him private, but it will only fuel the anger between the two of you. We already had one person unsubscribed from this post due to the childness stuff this site is turning in to with your war with Tom. You both have allot of knowledge on the subject of S gauge trians. I wish you two can be gentlemen now and just end this personal battle between you two. It is not healthy for either one of you two. Take care, Mike Marmer Germantown, MD

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14174	From: Richard Snook	Date: 7/24/2001
Subject: further to idea...had to be hey!

I forgot the other side to this.....that is that these cutouts- buildings can also serve the S community at large with reasonable mockups to help with layout construction etc....helps give the modeller a real impression of space utilisation. What is on paper doesnt always translate in reality. You can even use them as templates for overlaying other materials into a more substantial edifice :-)) cheers >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14175	From: Richard Snook	Date: 7/24/2001
Subject: and theres more!! ( no not steak knives)

If the NASG was to feel a little entrepenureal , there might be the othe r avenue of sales. If said small collection of colour in-cut out books was developed, and packaged well i.e...appealing to kiddies...in the fashion that all those other supermarket shelf activity books are....then there is a whole nation of potential sales...if you could hook in with national or even regioonal distributors then the potential exists for the coffers of the NASG to appreciate considerably. A range could even include designs similar to the Dept 56 range...so the kids can assemble semi-ookalikes ( careful not to infringe copyright etc) of those buildings that Aunt May etc have...without damaging Aunt Mays originals....just like GrandMa's and so on. Kids arent so fussed with exact scale designs, though you could have books with some of each etc consider...the population....the number of supermarkets and other such outlets for this genre of publication...were talking mega thousands!!...of potential sales outlets... even if only 5000 retailers of some sort only ever recieved one box of books ...say 25 per carton...thats 125000...lets say the NASG even on a bum deal got only a quarter for each...thats a lot of money for projects and promotion......multiply that by 10...getting interested NASG????..maybe you make 50c..or even a dollar!! This doens t even account for the subliminal promotion to adults it would provide.....seeing all that 1:64 product. food for thought I would suggest cheers >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14176	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 7/24/2001
Subject: Re: MTH operating freight platform

According to the MTH catalog the enrire platform is the same. You decude if crates are to scale (but I think a crate esentially has no scale). I have the passenger platform and it's great to see people have boarded and detrained on the hidden side of my passenger cars. I'm recommending our module club get the freight platform 'cause we don't always run passenger trains all the time but generally have a freight going. Scott Holm wrote: > > Is this item appropriately sized for S gauge like the operating > passenger platform is? > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14177	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 7/24/2001
Subject: Perhaps my departure is a little hasty....

Dear S-Trains members: I would like to thank all of you who responded to my email today asking me to reverse my decision to leave the list. I do think there are many positive things to share on this list. I was just disappointed to see all the bickering especially from very talented people whos wisdom is shared and appreciated in S Gauge publications. May I respectfully suggest that we have some ground rules for what are acceptable and unacceptable topics? I get enough bickering at work during the day. I come here for knowledge and relaxation. I have invested a lot of time and money into my American Flyer layout, and I get great pleasure from it. I have also met a lot of great people on this list. I would like to stay on it so please RE SUBSCRIBE ME! Regards Michael (alias Kite 1.)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14178	From: mlmarmer	Date: 7/24/2001
Subject: Re: Perhaps my departure is a little hasty....

I would like to welcome Michael back to the list. Michael thanks for coming back! I understand completely why Michael left the list because we got away,badly, from the discussion of S trains. When we are dealing with many writings that reach 100's of people, something other that S trains and trains in general will be mentioned from time to time. I know some have asked to limit the writing to trains only, but an occassional mention of another interest isn't going to hurt anything, I feel. We have a large group of people with great knowledge of things on this list with other interest in life other than trains, and through an occassional mention of something else, that has turned out to be, of some good in developing friendships among us. I have learn that Jerry Dobbs in CO is into Mountain Biking and I hope he brings he bike along the next time he is in York so that I can take him biking in Washington on the C and O Canal, I have learned that Joe of Joe's Train Repair was a Philadephia A's fan and I got him information on their historical society and he invited me to go to a Durham Bulls game if I am every in NC and other things about him. I have received some wonderful email from Rance V. in Norway who used to leave in my neighborhood and great emails from Doug Peck, Kite1 and Alex in Maine. All of this was done in private once the interest or subject was mentioned. And yes, I have learned than Tom Jarcho is into history and books and we have sent private mails about that topic. Of course, I understand, the terrible thing about religon was upsetting for many and wasn't handle well by ALL of us, but I just wanted to let you all know that some good has come out of some of the non train mentions. I hope many of you have and can develop some new private friendship due to the interest you may share as individuals. I hope we all can come back together as a group again, including the main people who were in the crossfire of emails about religon which them turned ugly among people who share a common bond of S trains. We need to stay together as a group to promote S as a major scale in model railroading. If I bored anyone with this email, I am sorry. Be well, Mike Marmer Germantown, MD

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14180	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 7/25/2001
Subject: Re: Perhaps my departure is a little hasty....

Glad you decided to stay, Michael. Also glad you got that caps key problem fixed. :^) As you probably know, all discussion forums stray off topic from time to time. They can even get a little nasty on rare occasions. It's a human thing. Generally, this group is quite friendly, especially compared with some of the stuff that can show up on Usenet. The storms here blow over quickly. Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14181	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 7/25/2001
Subject: HEY

Maybe we can all take a moment to reflect on this statement "I Swear TOGOD I'M AN ATHEIEST" The posts have been entertaing like watching two kids in a sand box, throwing sand at each other untill one cries.As adults we watch as the kids have fun but at what cost to the SIGHT of the other....Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14182	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 7/25/2001
Subject: TO Tom &evreryone else

A quote from Bob Dylan "They only want to drag you down into the hole that their in"....This is not a quote to be take by the other gentelman as a remark directed at him,,,I just know Tom is into music.....Beat me to a pulp off list where non train items belong If you feel I stepped out of line....Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14183	From: mlmarmer	Date: 7/25/2001
Subject: Re: stick to it

Ted, Thanks for letting us know about that site. It is really a neat website that can finally answer all the quetions of what glue to get for a specific project. Not only is a great reference for train projects, but all types of projects around the house, etc. Anyone who has not saved that one somewhere on your computer, please do. Mike Marmer Germantown, MD

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14184	From: Donald E. Munsey, Jr.	Date: 7/25/2001
Subject: Re: another idea...warning!!

Richard and all S-Gaugers, To bridge the gap to the computer generation the "cut-out" books could be on CD and then the NASG wouldn't have to worry about the flat stock inventory and postage costs. My wife is an elementary teacher (3rd grade) and is currently teaching a summer computer workshop using two pieces of software that might serve as examples - the kids LOVE 'EM!!! Both pieces are by Tom Snyder Software and although they don't have accurate scale changing capabilities, some of the full-color buildings are visually near S-Gauge size (I didn't have my ruler with me). The titles are: Diorama Designer and Community Construction Kit. With the availability of Xerox machines, the cut-out CD could be marketed to all scales - wouldn't it be fun to have the N, HO and O crowds supporting the NASG! -- Big Swede (aka Don Munsey, Jr.) UpperRightCorner of Louisiana StoryTeller, CopperSmith, S/Sn3 ModelRailroader, Archer & Bonsai grasshopper. A Recovering Forester, now teaching High School Mathematics!! Richard Snook wrote: > Fellow Essers > > An idea struck me the other day.....on occasions when the kids come over > to Daddies'....lo and behold....one of their favourite toys is to grab > the box of Train-stuf..set up their Track ( flyer , as it happens!!) and > set to with playing with their Ertl set..they love it...well when older > one isnt attending to his Digimon. Now ..what I have noticed over a > period of time is that , like most kids they have an active > imagination...too active..LOL :-) They will use anything and > everything to create mini-scenes. Bits of lego become ppl, shoe box is a > Station etc..they arent too critical of the scale hehehe. > > Heres the interesting part ( well i thought this had potential) they > often draw up and colour in, then cut out, tape together buildings and > such. It occurrs to me that the NASG, or someone could make a die cut > colouring book, with houses, farm stuff,...you could have a series of > themes indeed, designed in such a way as the good ol tab and slot, so > the kids could assemble without glue and tape ( isnt that a good idea I > hear other Parents sigh!!) Im not sure how heavy a cardstock would be > ideal, leave that to those better informed; but it struck me that this > is perfect sort of thing to have at conventions , mall showings etc. > Make them affordable whilst still returning a modicum of profit for the > effort to say the NASG. > > Now the Cutout (punch out ) City etc is not new, agreed but this > application could provide the type of induction for kids to trains that > we strive for, and even better to 1:64. > > cheers > >:~)) > Richard > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14185	From: Ronald Huesman, Jr.	Date: 7/25/2001
Subject: S Fest 2001

I am interested in attending the 2001 S Fest. Does anyone have any information on who to contact regarding registration, etc. Thank you. Ron Huesman.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14186	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 7/25/2001
Subject: Re: ENOUGH IS ENOUGH ALREADY...I'M OUTA HERE

Yes, he said get a new key board!!!!!!!! Thank you gentle Larry Jackman eighthmile@... wrote: > > Did Mark Twain ever say anything that might relate to stuck caps keys? > > Chuck F. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14187	From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com	Date: 7/25/2001
Subject: "American Flyer" name registration?

Friends, Through the debate of who controls the American Flyer name, something was mentioned about "general usage(?)" ie: a tissue is called a Kleenex, etc. It comes to my mind that there is a brand of little red wagon called "American Flyer." Could this be why the name is not under Big L's registration? Thanks, Bill ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14188	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 7/25/2001
Subject: AF NAME

There is also a Rock? group by the name American Flyer You can see their listings on E-Bay if you go to items matching AF....Mike

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14189	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 7/25/2001
Subject: Looking for Cab Forward

Let me extend my thanks to the many people who have been assisting my desire to own a SouthWind AC-12 4294. I have learned an approximate price, that it has a minimum radius of about 38 inches, and comes with scale wheels only. Your many suggestions have been followed including telephone calls and a letter by snail-mail. I have left two phone-mail messages on his answering machine and I mailed the letter today at the Milwaukee, WI post office about 1:30 PM CST. If Jettie went to the NASG convention it might take him a week or so to get my letter. I will let you know the results of my quest. Thorin P.S. My name seems to be causing some confusion. My first name is Thorin and my last name is Marty and always has been -- odd as that might seem. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14190	From: jbs@misi.org	Date: 7/25/2001
Subject: SHS F3 Sound

If anyone in the group has SHS F3 AB units using Locomatic I would appreciate hearing from you regarding their behaviour. Mine run perfectly but the sound has two curious symptoms: One is an intermittent chirping sound which is produced only at idle. The other occurs during very slow forward accelleration during which the prime mover sound stops for a brief interval then re-starts repeatedly! (Motion is not interrupted, only the sound) Any and all comments appreciated

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14191	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 7/25/2001
Subject: Re: Would you "consider" to buy poll.....

--------------------------------------------------------------- Dennis A. Troini wrote: Comment: We can get most of this from AM, K-line, SHS ,PH, PCS and others. I suspect that Bringing back new Flyer diminishes there markets and possibly makes them non-viable. --------------------------------------------------------------- Actually, I think the above can stand on their own, and any new, decent Flyer would augment them. Be seeing you... Rich G. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14192	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 7/25/2001
Subject: Re: "American Flyer" name registration?

wmhtreftsv@... wrote: > Friends, > > Through the debate of who controls the American Flyer name, something was > mentioned about "general usage(?)" ie: a tissue is called a Kleenex, > etc. It comes to my mind that there is a brand of little red wagon > called "American Flyer." Could this be why the name is not under Big L's > registration? > > Thanks, > > Bill > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Any wagon I remember said RADIO FLYER.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14193	From: russcalla@aol.com	Date: 7/25/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1092

Hi Marvin, I talked to MTH at the TCA National convention about Flyer production. The crossing gates were dropped due to a lack of orders. Andy, at MTH said they would still produce the the log loader, but they still question the market for continuing Am. Flyer production. Hope this helps. Russ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14194	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 7/25/2001
Subject: Re: another idea...warning!!

Richard, thank you for not blocking me out over all this silliness. On your topic , because I grew up with Lionel 0, my choice of cardboard was corrugated shipping boxes cut to fit needs of the moment. If the box fold was included in the "structure" it was noticeably stronger than when taped. Glue and mucilage did not work well at all. But trestle piers and bridges could be successfully built and maintained. Somewhat later a commercial artist demonstrated the strength of layers of middle weight cardstock (about the same weight as quality paper doll books). I was able to construct very sturdy, accurate structures including a long truss bridge; the details are available in commercial art and architectural modeling publications. ( Really too long to go into here). My point is that , I believe several sets of identical and/or complementary parts in a Punch/Cut out book would reduce frustration of structure failure, still be affordable - for those not needing structure strength, they now have multiple models- and introduce youngsters to some engineering and architectural concepts in railroading and buildings. Thanks for jogging my memory and getting me back on track. Dennis Troini

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14195	From: David Garber	Date: 7/25/2001
Subject: deleting mail from outlook express

awhile back when discussing viruses, it was mentioned how to delete mail from outlook express without opening it. Does anyone remember how to do this or remember the number of the message? I think it was about three months ago. Thanks, Dave Garber

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14196	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 7/25/2001
Subject: Wednesday - NASG Convention Report

Hello List People. I Got to Scranton in the early afternoon. The Hotel is fantastic. A real piece of railroad history. Lots of marble. Everybody is friendly and happy to see 'the list guy'. I gave a 'clinic' on the internet and 7 or so guys came and listened. It was informal and fun. There are 3 large modular layouts. Lots of vendors, some new and some not so new. I shot some stills for the web and some video for the tape. Lots of new faces to go with familiar names.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14197	From: Howell S Jobbins	Date: 7/25/2001
Subject: Re: SHS F3 Sound

JBS, I have exactly the same problem, but when the prime mover crackle starts, it knocks out all sound and will not recover until the units have been shut down without power for an hour or more. It almost seems like there is a power connection in the sound board separates once the unit warms up. The run operation is superb, just the sound phase is a big disappointment . SHS AB F-3's in AC hirail HSJ Trumbull, CT On Wed, 25 Jul 2001 15:08:27 -0500 jbs@... writes: > If anyone in the group has SHS F3 AB units using Locomatic I would > appreciate hearing from you regarding their behaviour. > > Mine run perfectly but the sound has two curious symptoms: > > One is an intermittent chirping sound which is produced only at > idle. > > The other occurs during very slow forward accelleration during which > the > prime mover sound stops for a brief interval then re-starts > repeatedly! (Motion is not interrupted, only the sound) > > Any and all comments appreciated > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14198	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 7/25/2001
Subject: A units with a bell

Which Alco PA dummy units did ACG make with a bell? Thanks. -------------------------- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld (www.BlackBerry.net) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14199	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 7/25/2001
Subject: ACSG Pictures

I posted some pictures of the Carolinas Division of the Atlantic Coast S Gaugers 28 by 28 foot modular layout at the recent Charlotte Metrolina Train Show. These pictures can be seen at: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains Joe ===== Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,300 part lines American Models ## S-Helper Service ## Gilbert Rerpoductions Featuring Parts by Toy Trains International joestrainrepair@... Master Card/Visa __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14200	From: Robert D Eves III	Date: 7/25/2001
Subject: Re: Looking for Cab Forward

Hello Thorin; I have made a print of your post. I'll hand deliver it to him in the AM. Bob Eves ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marty.Thorin" <Thorin.Marty@...> To: "S-Scale (E-mail)" <S-Scale@yahoogroups.com>; "'S-Trains (E-mail)" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 3:50 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Looking for Cab Forward > Let me extend my thanks to the many people who have been assisting my desire > to own a SouthWind AC-12 4294. I have learned an approximate price, that it > has a minimum radius of about 38 inches, and comes with scale wheels only. > Your many suggestions have been followed including telephone calls and a > letter by snail-mail. I have left two phone-mail messages on his answering > machine and I mailed the letter today at the Milwaukee, WI post office about > 1:30 PM CST. > If Jettie went to the NASG convention it might take him a week or so > to get my letter. I will let you know the results of my quest. > > Thorin > > P.S. My name seems to be causing some confusion. My first name is Thorin > and my last name is Marty and always has been -- odd as that might seem. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14201	From: Tom Stolte	Date: 7/25/2001
Subject: New Decals from Oddballs Decals - N, HO, S & O scales.

641 CNW 50' waffle boxcar (11-80) painted Zito yellow with black ends. Walthers kit. Red, black & white graphics. Has large CNW system herald. 642 CNW 50' coil car. (2-91) painted CNW green. Walthers kit. Red, black, white & yellow graphics. Has the small CNW system herald. Set will letter 2 cars. 643 CNW 24' ore car. (3-85) painted CNW green. MDC kit. Red, black, white & yellow graphics. Has the small CNW system herald. Set will letter 2 cars. 644 CNW 40' MoW gondola. (7-89) painted CNW MoW red & grey. Old AHM kit. Red, black & white graphics. Has the med size CNW system herald. Set will letter 2 cars. New catalog now on CD. PDF format. $5.00. Comes with Adobe reader. The N scale sets will letter 2 or 3 cars. S & O scale will letter 1 car. All the above decals refer to HO scale kits on the market. These will also work for other scales. Just pick a car of your choice in the other scales. Prefix numbers for N scale 60-. HO scale 87-. S scale 64-. O scale 48-. N & HO scale retail price $3.25. S & O scale retail price $6.50. These should be in your favorite hobby shop within the next month or so. If ordering direct, please include $1.75 for p&h. Up to date catalog N, HO, S & O scale, $6.00, plus $1.75 for p&h. You buy this catalog once, then every 3 months or so, send me a LSSAE for updates. Fits in a 3 ring binder. -- Tom Stolte - Oddballs Decals N, HO, S & O Scale Model Railroad Decals 26550 227th Street; McLouth, Kansas 66054 Phone: 913-727-6649 - oddballdecal@... Web site http://www.oddballsdecals.com/ Subscribe: OddballsDecals-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Missouri Pacific Photos Web Page: http://www.trainweb.org/mopac/ NMRA Member #121756

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14202	From: Euell Johnson	Date: 7/26/2001
Subject: Re: Would you "consider" to buy poll.....

Flyer will always be a "toy". The stock should be design for primarily for kids. The scaler and hobbiest will alwys turn to "our" suppliers. What Flyer would or should bring to the table is that they would make more people aware of the scale and would be a starting point for bringing more people to the hobby. I would bet that most of us "S-Gaugers" started with a Flyer. On another subject, wasn't the little red wagon a RADIO FLYER? EJ ----- Original Message ----- From: " Rich Gajnak" <rgajnak@...> To: "STrains" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 5:00 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Re: Re: Would you "consider" to buy poll..... > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > Dennis A. Troini wrote: > > Comment: We can get most of this from AM, K-line, SHS ,PH, PCS and > > others. I suspect that > > Bringing > back new Flyer diminishes there markets and > > possibly makes them non-viable. > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > Actually, I think the above can stand on their own, and any new, decent > Flyer would augment them. > > Be seeing you... > > Rich G. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14203	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 7/26/2001
Subject: Re: Would you "consider" to buy poll.....

EJ there is/was an American Flyer wagon as well as the Radio Flyer....There is also a rock group with the AF name...I belive the AF is up for grabs but not to be regester(sp)....I don't belive the "Shield" is reg. either....Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14204	From: David	Date: 7/26/2001
Subject: Re: A units with a bell

21922-1 MoPac and 21925-1 UP

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14205	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/26/2001
Subject: Whew, I got rid of the Virus! & great report Paul!

HI All, Hope my computer didn't send you any emails, it turned out I had that new, nasty virus, so I haven't been posting or using email for a few days. I didn't have any record of anything going out, but I understand the virus doesn't log its outgoing messages. If so, My apoligies. When I opened the original attached message, I had a funny feeling; next time I won't open one so casually! Paul's report was great, I'd have thought more people would have attended his talk, though. Keep up the great work Paul! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14206	From: plotnick	Date: 7/26/2001
Subject: S-fest; Cardboard buildings

1. The 2001 S-fest page is: http://www.s-fest.com/ 2. > It occurrs to me that the NASG, or someone could make a die cut >> colouring book, with houses, farm stuff,... Dover and Usborne books, among others, publish a large number of cut-out and assemble building books, many in HO. I used two of these to build the Witch's Castle and the Emerald City on my Yellow Brick RR. There are also numerous paper building sites on the web. Many have free downloads. Here are two: http://www.fiddlersgreen.net/index.htm http://www.cardfaq.org/faq/ -Roy Plotnick Roy E. Plotnick Department of Earth and Environmental Sciences University of Illinois at Chicago 845 W. Taylor St. Chicago, Il .60607 phone: 312-996-2111 630-252-6377(May-August) e-mail: plotnick@... homepage: http://www.uic.edu/depts/geos/people/faculty/plotnick.html "Those who do not know the literature are condemned to repeat it."

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14207	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 7/26/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1090

Turnout question. The larger frog number is a larger radius. The actual heel length of the frog determines the frog number, such as a # 6, has a heel length of 6'-3",& a radius of 258.57'. A #8 has a heel length of 7'-11"& a radius of 487.28', etc,etc. American Flyer with a scale radius of 102.69' and a degree of curvature of 55 48' 27" is in the ball park of a #4 switch. Ref. Racor Trackworks Products. Jerry 77-11644 ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14208	From: Richard Snook	Date: 7/26/2001
Subject: how much??

with respect to the type of kids activity books etc that you might find in the supermarket, newspaper shop etc.....how much do these kinds of bboks sell for..I appreciate a range will occurr...but are we talking 99c...$2...$4-5..???? and for what.. Im currently pricng printing...and amcuriou what the market will bear!! help much apprecated thanks >~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14209	From: richard_snook@primus.com.au	Date: 7/26/2001
Subject: Re: Whew, I got rid of the Virus! & great report Paul!

I tell ya it pays to update the antivirus patterns very regularly...mine was only a week old and I got stung....fortunately cleaned it up too.... regarding attendees to Pauls clinic etc.......we seem , possibly to take for granted the degree of acceptance of computers and the internet. But I wonder what the real percentage is of the modeling comunity, and S in particualr for utilisation of the net? I mean who writes a "letter" anymore....even Birthday cards arent as common....lol.....but there must be a lot who dont use the mediu m to the degre that we do.I wonder how many??....and possibly why? cheers >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14210	From: t	Date: 7/26/2001
Subject: Gargraves track for sale

I have an unused box of Gargraves Stainless Steel track and 8 switches. The box contains 24 three foot sections. Two have been out of the box and test fit to the switches.. The switches are the older closed frog type. The track is listed on the GarGraves website for $8.75/section. I will sell the whole lot for $100 or best offer, you pay shipping. Robert E. Yablonski 949-888-1194 yabo@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14211	From: Peter King	Date: 7/26/2001
Subject: Canadian National Railways American Flyer Boxcar

Good Day Gentlemen: I understand that American Flyer released one box car in Canadian National colours. Does anyone on the list have one that they may be willing to part with? If so, please reply to me off list. I have an American Models insulated box car in CN and the SHS stock car. Are there any other pieces of rolling stock in Canadian National that folks could direct me to. Thanks in advance for any help you folks can provide. Cheers, Peter King

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14212	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 7/27/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1092

russcalla@... wrote in part: > > MTH said they would still produce the the log loader, but they still question > the market for continuing Am. Flyer production. Hope this helps. Russ You have to wonder about these guys! The coal loader and the GABE were oversold. In other words, they had more orders then they were able / willing to fill! Some people who pre-ordered Gabe ended up on the short end of the stick, without the unit they had pre-ordered. When my supplier came up short, I went to eBay to buy my Gabe. I mean we order this stuff months in advance, only to find out that when the piece does finally come out, that not enough units were made to fill orders. I would love to hear the explanation for this type of marketing!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14213	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/27/2001
Subject: MTH Saw Mill & Log Loader

I just checked the MTH shipping date page and interestingly, the Saw Mill (MTH's name for a sawmill) is scheduled to ship 9-15 while the log loader, annouced a year before?, is scheduled to ship 11-15. Hmm. Anyone know when Big L's sawmill is scheduled, or their coal loader? S David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14214	From: Clay Kinsner	Date: 7/27/2001
Subject: Over/under producing/selling

Hi Chuck and all: Actually, I think they were OVERsold meaning that there were too many produced. Perhaps a local dealer or two under-ordered (happens to all of us), but these things are still available from wholesalers and pseudo-wholesalers-to-the-public such as Island Trains. In fact, as one list member pointed out last month, Island was clearing Gabes and Coal Loaders out at wholesale, and these items are available on ebay at around wholesale off and on. I still have a few coal loaders and Gabes sitting around our shop in San Antonio. As for the marketing, when Lionel or MTH do run something O gauge at seemingly low numbers, I think they think it keeps interest high--kind of like when one of my customers eyes something over and over only to come in next time and find that item gone...he often won't make that mistake again, because now he sees these things really DO sell. I think the whole S gauge issue is more a matter of a lack of faith in the profitability (on their part) as well as their improperly assessing the S market. I wasn't a marketing major, but that's the best I can figure their motives. My 2 cents, Clay Kinsner Lone Star Trains and Collectibles San Antonio, TX ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Harrington" <myflyertrains@...> To: <russcalla@...> Cc: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 10:06 AM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1092 > russcalla@... wrote in part: > > > > MTH said they would still produce the the log loader, but they still question > > the market for continuing Am. Flyer production. Hope this helps. Russ > > You have to wonder about these guys! The coal loader and the GABE were > oversold. In other words, they had more orders then they were able / > willing to fill! Some people who pre-ordered Gabe ended up on the short > end of the stick, without the unit they had pre-ordered. > > When my supplier came up short, I went to eBay to buy my Gabe. I mean we > order this stuff months in advance, only to find out that when the piece > does finally come out, that not enough units were made to fill orders. I > would love to hear the explanation for this type of marketing! > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14215	From: IronHorse	Date: 7/27/2001
Subject: Got something to get rid of?

Anybody got a black-market inventory you need to dispose of? It must be train related. :o) Heh, I wonder what I could be referring to ?? ;o} Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14216	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 7/27/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1094

Canadian Pacific flat car #24558 with Christmas trees, without trees this car is very reasonable. Jerry 77-11644 ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14217	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 7/27/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1092

Frog number can be calculated by using the COTANGENT of the frog angle, measured at the frog, not the angle of the switch. A number 12 switch (A.R.E.A) has a switch angle of 1-19-46, & frog angle of 4-46-19 ( = a cotangent. of 11.950) and a center line radius of 1104.63 ( a 5-11-20 degree of curve, fairly common on railroads). As I posted earlier the frog number = length of the toe of the frog divided by x (distance between the rails at the toe end of the frog) + 1/2 or length of the heel of frog divided by y (distance between the rails at the heel end of the frog) - 1/2. If this confuses any one please contact me off line for a drawing showing a layout of an A.R.E.A. switch. Jerry 77-11644 ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14218	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 7/27/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1092

Mike You can be sure I will bring my bike back to York. Trading trains, & riding some of the old Rail lines, next time I can ride a canal trail, can't wait. AMERICA is a grate place to live. Jerry 77-11644 ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14219	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 7/27/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, July 29, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14220	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/27/2001
Subject: Canadian cars

Hi all Jerry noted the Christmas tree car, which I'd forgotten about, but I think the original request was for the CN Reefer 24419 which is somewhat "precious" (i.e.; it's not a $10 car!) If you don't mind missing or bad stickers, you might get one inexpensively. So that's 2 Canadian cars ACG made in S, are there others? S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14221	From: nyc17819@aol.com	Date: 7/27/2001
Subject: Re: Turnout Question

The number of a frog is the number of units (feet, inches, meters, etc.) between the theoretical point of frog and the place where the rails are 1 unit apart. The theoretical point of frog is the point where the two gauge faces of the rail intersect. The gauge face is the side of the rail where the flange of the wheel is. Most frogs have the point rounded off a little, so it is necessary to find the point where the two gauge lines intersect to find the true point of frog. On full size railroads, the actual point of frog is rounded off about a half inch, and the two gauge lines are about a half inch apart at that point. The angle is measured at the point of frog. The angle is two times the angle who's tangent is 0.5 divided by the frog number. For a number 10 frog, the point where the gauge lines of the rails are one foot apart is located ten feet from the theoretical point of frog and the angle is 5 degrees, 43 minutes, 29 seconds. A number 8 frog has an angle of 7 degrees, 9 minutes, 10 seconds. The length of the toe, heel or entire frog, cannot be used to determine the frog number because different weights of rail and different manufacturers have different lengths. Most turnouts have switches (the part of the turnout that moves) that are straight. They meet the outside rails at a slight angle (usually about 1.5 degrees) and remain straight to the hinge point. Beyond the hinge point, the rails on the curved side are curved until they get near the frog, and then they straighten out through the frog. American Flyer turnouts are curved throughout their entire length, and are not realistic in this aspect. American Flyer frogs are about a number 3 but the turnouts are shorter than a full size number 3 would be because the entire length of the turnout is curved on the diverging side. Full size railroads usually standardize on a combination of turnouts that meet their speed requirements, such as 8's and 10's for yard use, and 15's or 16's for 30mph diverging routes, and #20's for 40 or 45mph routes. New Jersey Transit has a #26.5 good for 80mph through the curved side, and Amtrak has #32.78 also good for 80mph but with a better ride. French railroads have a #64 turnout good for around 130mph, but the distance between the point of switch and the point of frog is over 900 feet. Closed frogs are becoming more popular with real railroads; spring frogs that close up the flangeway of the mainline side to provide a better ride but allow the flangeway for the diverging side to open when the wheels on the diverging track push against a movable part of the frog that springs back to the closed position as soon as the wheel leaves; and powered movable point frogs that have the nose or point of the frog swing back and forth from one closure rail to the other depending on which way the switch is thrown. Movable point frogs provide a continuous running surface with no gap through the flangeway of the other side of the frog. The ride through these is incredibly smooth. Some high speed turnouts have curved switch points that meet the other rail in less of an angle and then curve throughout their length, and may also have curved frogs on the diverging side so as to shorten the overall turnout length, and to provide a better ride. Be glad American Flyer switches were built as they are--it's a lot easier to replace a piece of AF curve track with an AF turnout than it is to use a scale turnout and then have to change all the track beyond it. Chris Harding

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14222	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 7/28/2001
Subject: Convention Photos

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/Scranton_model_comp/ I uploaded some pictures. Having too much fun to do more. I am going to shoot more layout video today.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14223	From: David Garber	Date: 7/28/2001
Subject: Canadian National

Kriss Modle Trains made one #205300. Thay were mafe using AF parts but the are repaints . Dave Garber

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14224	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 7/28/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1095

Chris Harding: In calculating your track & switches, do you use a centerline radius of 19 1/4" ( 102.69 scale feet) for the standard AF factory curved track. Most track plan dimensions from the factory only show 20" radius to the outside of the track tie, I have tried to measure existing track, but I find that different production runs of track have different lengths, 1/16(+/-), the closest I can measure is 20 3/16" to outside of track tie. This seams to work fine although I have never seen any engineering data on FLYER track. I am curious as to what dimensions you use. Thanks Jerry 77-11644 ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14225	From: Walt Danylak	Date: 7/28/2001
Subject: Re: MTH Saw Mill & Log Loader

--- In S-Trains@y..., "David Dewey" <djdewey@c...> wrote: I just checked the MTH shipping date page and interestingly, the Saw Mill MTH's name for a sawmill) is scheduled to ship 9-15 while the log loader, annouced a year before?, is scheduled to ship 11-15. Hmm. Anyone know when Big L's sawmill is scheduled, or their coal loader? David D. David, Lionel had production samples of the sawmill, gabe and the 4 freight cars at the convention. Missing was the coal loader. The samples were air freighted in for the convention according to the rep. The rest of the production items are on their way by ship. There was no additional info on the coal loader. Also mentioned was that Lionel is "interested" in doing a steam locomotive in S, but they would coment to nothing and had no further comment on the subject. Walt

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14226	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/28/2001
Subject: Re: MTH Saw Mill & Log Loader

Hmm, Walt; It appears "The Plot Thickens!" Hmmm. Not holding my breath and turning (Conrail) Blue! Sorry, unfair dig, but the play on words was too good to pass up! S David D PS so does this mean my pre-ordered L sawmill might make it home by September??

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14227	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 7/28/2001
Subject: Voltage regulator

Hi all, I need to find a part for the carousell on my christmas layout. I hope someone can help me. On the part it reads top line:KIA next line ,7805P , 3rd line reads 8DV. I think I figured it out to be a voltage regulator but not sure.Can anyone help on this? Thanks, Chris Burger [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14228	From: Gary Chidester	Date: 7/28/2001
Subject: family man

I just watched the "Family Man" and noticed that the character played by Nicholas Cage had a train on a shelf above his bed. I couldn't tell if it was a Flyer or Lionel or something else. Did anyone else identify? g

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14229	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 7/29/2001
Subject: HISTORY CHANNEL

Did anyone else catch the program on the History Channel " Trains in War" It showed the history of trains in wars from the Civial War to WWI, WWII, Korean With a bit in the Viet. War Showed some pretty interesting BIG guns on trains, Etc . Also the # of GI's that were involved in keeping trains running and of taking them out...Rebuilding thew rails and the yards that had to be built near the fronts of theses wars for supplies...If you didn't catch it try the next time it comes on ....Really makes you think of all the people behind the scenes in a conflict . 60's term ... ..(War).....MIke

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14230	From: Walt Danylak	Date: 7/29/2001
Subject: Re: Voltage regulator

--- In S-Trains@y..., cbtrainnut@a... wrote: Hi all, I need to find a part for the carousell on my christmas layout. I hope someone can help me. On the part it reads top line:KIA next line ,7805P, 3rd line reads 8DV. I think I figured it out to be a voltage regulator but not sure. Can anyone help on this? Thanks, Chris Burger Chris, It sounds like an 8 volt regulator. You should be able to find one at Radio Shack. Walt Danylak

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14231	From: Dan Brindell	Date: 7/29/2001
Subject: Re: HISTORY CHANNEL

If you enjoyed that, you should also check out the movie "The Train" starring Burt Lancaster, directed by John Frankenheimer. It is about the French resistance during WWII and has LOTS of great train action sequences. It was filmed around 1950 when the SNCF was migrating from steam to electric....so they were scrapping steam locos and didn't mind crashing them or blowing one up when necessary (sad, but true!). It is one of my favorite movies. ----- Original Message ----- From: <anormal1@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 3:29 AM Subject: [S-Trains] HISTORY CHANNEL > Did anyone else catch the program on the History Channel " Trains in War" > It showed the history of trains in wars from the Civial War to WWI, WWII, > Korean With a bit in the Viet. War Showed some pretty interesting BIG guns > on trains, Etc . Also the # of GI's that were involved in keeping trains > running and of taking them out...Rebuilding thew rails and the yards that had > to be built near the fronts of theses wars for supplies...If you didn't catch > it try the next time it comes on ....Really makes you think of all the people > behind the scenes in a conflict . 60's term ... ..(War).....MIke > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14232	From: Thomas & Diane Haberman	Date: 7/29/2001
Subject: Unsubscribe

Please take me off of your distribution list for trains or out of your individual address book. Thank you. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14233	From: Scott Brown	Date: 7/29/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1096

I may be off the mark here, but with all the critisism that Lionel has received on this list over the past couple of months (not to mention years), there seems to be an ample number of you salivating over the arrival of Gabe, the sawmill, coal loader, etc. from the big "L". The other day there were a few comments about how MTH may have lost interest in us as sales don't seem to be as high as originally forcast. Personally, I wouldn't blame MTH for backing out now as many of you dumped them and cancelled your order with MTH in favor of the Lionel items. Items I might ad, which have yet to show up. While the MTH items have shown up. (Yes, I did see the prototypes at the NASG convention) It just puzzles me how so much venom is spewed at Lionel here on the list, but the minute they hint they might do something in "S", many of you kick the new guy (MTH) to the curb to "return to their own vomit" as the Bible puts it. Ok, that might be a bit harsh, but you get my drift. Maybe someone can explain why you would favor a Lionel product over an MTH product for "S" gaugers. I'm not saying I wouldn't purchase a Lionel product, but I had hoped we would support MTH in their testing the waters in "S" with the hopes of their making more items for us. The rumor several months ago was that MTH might be making a steam engine in "S". Now that same rumor is coming from the Lionel camp. Seems like everytime MTH does something, Lionel has to copy them. The only motivation I can see is that Lionel wants to hurt MTH. And now after spitting in our face all these years, Lionel wants to use us to attack MTH. Oh, well, the battle goes on.........just my thoughts. Scott Brown Atlantic Coast S Gaugers Washington & Old Dominion Division

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14234	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 7/29/2001
Subject: Re: Voltage regulator

A 7805 is a 5 volt voltage regulator. You should be able to buy one at Radio Shack... Chuck

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14235	From: Tim Brown	Date: 7/29/2001
Subject: Stockyard button

Hi All, Do I need a 'stockyard button' to operate my stockyard, or will any old button do? There is a real one on eBay at: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1618530845 I don't get what if anything that silver thing to the left of the red button does. Thank, Tim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14236	From: Thomas & Diane Haberman	Date: 7/29/2001
Subject: (no subject)

Please take me off of your distribution list for trains or out of your individual address book. Thank you. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14237	From: Scott Holm	Date: 7/29/2001
Subject: Re: Stockyard button

That silver thing is a rotating switch that turns the stockyard on or off when turned until the next click. It's actually black; the silver being a reflection. The red button is to activate the stockyard car so that the cows move through it. --- Tim Brown <Timboy@...> wrote: > Hi All, > Do I need a 'stockyard button' to operate my stockyard, or will any > old button do? There is a real one on eBay at: > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1618530845 > I don't get what if anything that silver thing to the left of the red > button does. > Thank, > Tim > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14238	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/29/2001
Subject: flyerchat tonite!

Hi all, I'll probably be late to chat tonite, going to Grass Valley to celebrate Linda's Dad's 89 B-day, ya'all have fun! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14239	From: Alan C Udy	Date: 7/29/2001
Subject: Part Number

In response to: "Hi all, I need to find a part for the carousell on my christmas layout. I hope someone can help me. On the part it reads top line:KIA next line ,7805P , 3rd line reads 8DV. I think I figured it out to be a voltage regulator but not sure.Can anyone help on this?" Thanks, Chris Burger You are right, it is a 7805 voltage regulator. The P may well stand for positive. I believe Radio Shack carries this one. Alan Udy, RMHRS Idaho Falls, ID ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14240	From: michael prell	Date: 7/29/2001
Subject: Re: HISTORY CHANNEL

Didn't catch that one but a few months ago, PBS ran a program that delt with Streamliners. One interesting item that I had not thought about was the reason why, other than the advent of deasel power,that steam was replaced stemmed from the fact that the heavy use during WWII simply wore the big monsters out. Question. Can anyone tell me what the story is with real New York Central Hudsons? Were they all scrapped? Just wondering. --- anormal1@... wrote: > Did anyone else catch the program on the History > Channel " Trains in War" > It showed the history of trains in wars from the > Civial War to WWI, WWII, > Korean With a bit in the Viet. War Showed some > pretty interesting BIG guns > on trains, Etc . Also the # of GI's that were > involved in keeping trains > running and of taking them out...Rebuilding thew > rails and the yards that had > to be built near the fronts of theses wars for > supplies...If you didn't catch > it try the next time it comes on ....Really makes > you think of all the people > behind the scenes in a conflict . 60's term ... > ..(War).....MIke > > S-Trains list sponsor: > http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories > too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > ===== Being angry is the same as holding a hot coal in the palm of your hand. You want to hold on to it in order to throw it at another, but only hurt yourself in doing so. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14241	From: David Garber	Date: 7/29/2001
Subject: Hudsons: In Classic Toy Trains

In Septembers CTT, the pictures on page 74-75, have me confused. I do not have in my collection all the pictured Hudsons nor do I have the proper catalogue. Is the picture on page 75 a Hudson HO early 40's or 46 from the type of wire used. Are the bottom two engines on page 75 both 3/16 o gauge? On page 74, the two running on the boiler front bend in the wire handrail, crossarms, and other details on the engine seem more like an HO casting. The Tender body also seems more HO. The device in the tender is what? A choo-choo- sound unit? talk to some of you tonight in the chat room, Dave Garber

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14242	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 7/29/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, July 29, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14243	From: rgajnak@earthlink.net	Date: 7/29/2001
Subject: No Surviving NYC Hudsons

Micheal Prell wrote: >Question. Can anyone tell me what the story is with >real New York Central Hudsons? Were they all scrapped? >Just wondering. Well, I'm not an NYC expert, but they're all gone. Legend has it that NYC management vigoursly scrapped their steam power. I think only three examples of NYC steam survive: 4-4-0 999 in Chicago's Museum of Science and Industry, 4-8-2 Mohawk 3001 at the National NYC Museum in Elkhart, Indiana and an 0-4-0 (or was it an 0- 6-0?) location unknown.(I seem to remember this one was being at the Mid-Continent Ry Museum, but I don't see it listed on their roster. Possibly they traded it, or my memory's WAY off.) Every few years or so, a rumor surfaces about a Hudson stored in some backwater engine house somewhere, hidden from railroad management by loyal NYC employees, but it's more like a railroad preservation equivalent of a UFO report. The Mohawk managed to escape the scrapper's torch because she was purchased by the Texas & Pacific railroad to be displayed as a T&P engine. She eventually wound up at the Age of Steam Railroad Museum in Dallas, and was exchanged for a GG1 from the Elkhart group. There was talk of restoring it to operation, but I haven't heard anything more about it in over 10 years. According to their website, the 3001 is now an "interactive display." http://nycmuseum.railfan.net Rich G.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14244	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 7/29/2001
Subject: Re: SHS F3 Sound

Dear JBS, I believe the chirping at idle is the sound of the solenoid on the air tank that drains the accumulated moisture in the tank. If you have even been seen diesel idle, this is a prototype noise. I can honestly say that I am not sure why your prime mover sound cuts out at low speed, but I will copy Dallas Gutacker to see if he has an idea. Don jbs@... wrote: > If anyone in the group has SHS F3 AB units using Locomatic I would > appreciate hearing from you regarding their behaviour. > > Mine run perfectly but the sound has two curious symptoms: > > One is an intermittent chirping sound which is produced only at idle. > > The other occurs during very slow forward accelleration during which the > prime mover sound stops for a brief interval then re-starts > repeatedly! (Motion is not interrupted, only the sound) > > Any and all comments appreciated > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 F-3s and Double Sheathed boxcars are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/emdf3s_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14245	From: Peter King	Date: 7/29/2001
Subject: Thank you for the help with CN rolling stock.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank all who replied to me about Canadian National rolling stock. You were all most helpful. Cheers Peter King

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14246	From: Wayne Broadhead	Date: 7/29/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1096

..excellent comments Scott...my feeling exactly. Wayne Broadhead Scott Brown wrote: > > I may be off the mark here, but with all the critisism that Lionel has received on this list over the past couple of months (not to mention years), there seems to be an ample number of you salivating over the arrival of Gabe, the sawmill, coal loader, etc. from the big "L". The other day there were a few comments about how MTH may have lost interest in us as sales don't seem to be as high as originally forcast. Personally, I wouldn't blame MTH for backing out now as many of you dumped them and cancelled your order with MTH in favor of the Lionel items. Items I might ad, which have yet to show up. While the MTH items have shown up. (Yes, I did see the prototypes at the NASG convention) It just puzzles me how so much venom is spewed at Lionel here on the list, but the minute they hint they might do something in "S", many of you kick the new guy (MTH) to the curb to "return to their own vomit" as the Bible puts it. Ok, that might be a bit harsh, but you get my drift. Maybe someone can > explain why you would favor a Lionel product over an MTH product for "S" gaugers. I'm not saying I wouldn't purchase a Lionel product, but I had hoped we would support MTH in their testing the waters in "S" with the hopes of their making more items for us. The rumor several months ago was that MTH might be making a steam engine in "S". Now that same rumor is coming from the Lionel camp. Seems like everytime MTH does something, Lionel has to copy them. The only motivation I can see is that Lionel wants to hurt MTH. And now after spitting in our face all these years, Lionel wants to use us to attack MTH. Oh, well, the battle goes on.........just my thoughts. > > Scott Brown > Atlantic Coast S Gaugers > Washington & Old Dominion Division > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14247	From: Victor Bereskin	Date: 7/29/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1096

The 7805 is a very common 5 volt voltage regulator. Try Radio Shack part 276-1770 Vic Bereskin > Message: 6 > Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 00:34:43 EDT > From: cbtrainnut@... > Subject: Voltage regulator > > Hi all, I need to find a part for the carousell on my christmas layout. I > hope someone can help me. On the part it reads top line:KIA next line ,7805P > , 3rd line reads 8DV. > I think I figured it out to be a voltage regulator but not sure.Can anyone > help on this? Thanks, Chris Burger >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14248	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 7/29/2001
Subject: Re: Convention Photos

Thanx fox the pix, Paul! Who built the auto rack? Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14249	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 7/29/2001
Subject: regulator

Thanks to all who responded to the regulator question. Went to Radio Shack and bought one. Changed it out and it still doesn't work. Back to the guessing game. Chris [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14250	From: Michael Greene	Date: 7/30/2001
Subject: Re: Convention Photos

At 04:49 AM 7/30/2001 +0000, eighthmile@... wrote: >Thanx fox the pix, Paul! Who built the auto rack? > >Chuck F. I believe you will find that it was built by Bill Frazier. He also won Best in Category with an airslide hopper. And won the Best Amateur in Show award as well. Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14251	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 7/30/2001
Subject: Re: Convention Photos

I hope someone took a picture of Jerry Poniatowski's scratch built Amtrak AEM7 in Phase III paint which won three awards including Best in show. If you contact me off line and can receive pictures I can forward it to you. Staying on the NPSG branchline of NASG track, Glenn

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14252	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 7/30/2001
Subject: (no subject)

Dear Walt and Chris A 7805 is a 5 volt positive regulator. Put in an 8 volt regulator and whatever you are running will fry. Here is the link to Radio Shack Walt alluded to http://www.radioshack.com/searchsku.asp/find=900-4493 Thorin Message: 6 Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 00:34:43 EDT From: cbtrainnut@... Subject: Voltage regulator Hi all, I need to find a part for the carousel on my Christmas layout. I hope someone can help me. On the part it reads top line:KIA next line ,7805P , 3rd line reads 8DV. I think I figured it out to be a voltage regulator but not sure. Can anyone help on this? Thanks, Chris Burger [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14253	From: Doug Peck	Date: 7/30/2001
Subject: Re: possible virus alert

If anyone recently (last 24 hours) received an email "from me" with an attached file, don't open it. Some new virus that came to me unknowingly from a customer. He says it sends a random file from your "My Documents" file to everyone in your address book. I don't know for sure that it did so....no one has reported it to me yet. If you received such an email from me, please let me know. I would have expected my up-to-date McAfee to have caught it, but it didn't tell me so. In a harddrive scan, I located something called SirCam and deleted it, so maybe that was it. Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14254	From: David	Date: 7/30/2001
Subject: Re: possible virus alert

Thats most likely the new CODE RED virus. Very fast. Its not out on the virus portector sites yet as they are having difficulty identifying its traits. The virus was borne due to the discovery of a weakness in Microsofts Internet Explorer. MS is supposed to have a patch up on their download web site.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14255	From: David	Date: 7/30/2001
Subject: Re: possible virus alert

Here is a link for more info ..... http://www.digitalisland.net/coderedalert/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14256	From: bilfrazier@aol.com	Date: 7/30/2001
Subject: Re: Autorack

> > Message: 19 > Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 04:49:30 -0000 > From: eighthmile@... > Subject: RE: Convention Photos > > Thanx fox the pix, Paul! Who built the auto rack? > > Chuck F. > > > > I built the autorack. It took third prize in the Amateur category. I know that 1951 Studebakers don't belong on a 1960's era car, but I built it that way because I wanted to! Thanks for the interest. Bill Frazier [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14257	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 7/30/2001
Subject: The NASG Convention

Hi Everybody: We just got back from the NASG Convention (my first, and I just got my card the day before I left for Scranton), and we had a great time. I saw a lot, bought too much (now I need to go back to work), and put a lot of faces together with names. (Most of you are much shorter than I thought.) I saw the Lionel Gabe. It looks precisely like the MTH Gabe. It operates a little differently, though. It has only 2 buttons. One propels Gabe, rung by rung, up the ladder. The other slides him back down. There is no rotary light switch, so the only way to turn on the lights is to push the "climb" button about 20 times until Gabe reaches the top and switches them on. Ditto for turning them off. Gabe "stalled" many times on his way up. He didn't look like Jimmy Stewart, but he appeared to have vertigo and needed extra persuasion, unlike the brave MTH Gabe. I noticed that the string would go slack a bit. To be fair, this is a pre-production model being hammered by a record crowd of over 500 participants (though I did try it on only the second day). Hopefully, Lionel will have the bugs ironed out by the production run. To my mind, I don't need it. I have one. The MTH nameplate on it does not detract from my enjoyment. The Lionel sawmill worked perfectly. It picked up every board and deposited them all in the waiting gon. I thought the Flyer original passed the log a little closer to the saw blade than this. There is quite a gap that will need a little perspective treatment to foster the illusion of actual sawing. Again, this looks exactly like the MTH model. I had already ordered the L unit months ago, and my order still stands. We had an Internet chat clinic with Paul Yorke presiding and we straightened out the whole mess of how to reply to the list without hitting "reply". I'm so glad we'll never see another whole day's digest reposted again . . . ever . . . I hope. The DCC seminar was an incredibly detailed, tightly presented overview of DCC with hardware, demonstrations, and handouts. If anyone wants to know more about this, I will be happy to post some details and contact information as soon as I unpack all the paper I brought home. More to come as I think of it. I wish I could have met even more of you there. Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14258	From: Scott Holm	Date: 7/30/2001
Subject: Re: possible virus alert

The code red virus is attacking Microsoft web servers running NT or Windows 2000 with Microsoft IIS Versions 4.0 and 5.0 web server software, not Internet Explorer. People who use Internet Explorer don't need to do anything for this virus. --- David <Dave0616@...> wrote: > Thats most likely the new CODE RED virus. Very fast. Its not out on > the virus portector sites yet as they are having difficulty > identifying its traits. The virus was borne due to the discovery of a > > weakness in Microsofts Internet Explorer. MS is supposed to have a > patch up on their download web site. > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14259	From: pdng@aol.com	Date: 7/30/2001
Subject: Voltage Regulator

In response to Chris Burger list, The KIA7805P is a 3 leg + 5 volt rated at 1 amp Regulator in a plastic case. Avail. at TV parts houses and also Radio Shack. Paul [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14260	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 7/30/2001
Subject: ALERT

Hi guys there Is another Virus out there That I picked up from a member of this list....I never open attac. from anyone but this one I did thinking it was as it was put a tech proublem.....Anyway I do not send letters with attch. at anytime ...so do not open any from me.....I would advise anyone not to open any attch. unless you have heard from the person before hand.....The type I have atacks address books and spreads ....No one I know has gotten an atach from me as yet.....My son who sells on -line recieved 80+ from different.....I got mine from Giles who was unaware that he had it....Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14261	From: Alex	Date: 7/30/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1096

Caveat emptor. Keep in mind that Radio Shack bubble-pack semiconductors are typically low-grade devices that are "spinoff" from IC vendors. I've found that I often have to buy two or more each of RS devices in order to get one good device. ECG's parts, for example, are much more expensive, but you only have to buy one to get a reliable part. The kind of faults I've seen with RS parts include excess leakage current, and inoperative gates (in digital parts). On the flipside, you have to go to an electronics supplier to get ECG parts. BTW: electronics supply houses will typically give you a free, hefty, paper ECG cross-reference catalog. Also, check out http://www.nteinc.com/ to see NTE's site and how you can download on-line-accessed ECG bits. I use this NTE tool a lot to get datasheets, etc. but still find the paper-bound ECG book to be easier to use to locate obsolete parts, cross-references, and simple product descriptions. Alex in Kennebunk, Maine -----Original Message----- From: Victor Bereskin [mailto:bereskin@...] Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 11:21 PM To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1096 The 7805 is a very common 5 volt voltage regulator. Try Radio Shack part 276-1770 Vic Bereskin > Message: 6 > Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 00:34:43 EDT > From: cbtrainnut@... > Subject: Voltage regulator > > Hi all, I need to find a part for the carousell on my christmas layout. I > hope someone can help me. On the part it reads top line:KIA next line ,7805P > , 3rd line reads 8DV. > I think I figured it out to be a voltage regulator but not sure.Can anyone > help on this? Thanks, Chris Burger > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14262	From: Alex	Date: 7/30/2001
Subject: Radio Shack semiconductors

Caveat emptor. Keep in mind that Radio Shack bubble-pack semiconductors are typically low-grade devices that are "spinoff" from IC vendors. I've found that I often have to buy two or more each of RS devices in order to get one good device. ECG's parts, for example, are much more expensive, but you only have to buy one to get a reliable part. The kind of faults I've seen with RS parts include excess leakage current, and inoperative gates (in digital parts). On the flipside, you have to go to an electronics supplier to get ECG parts. BTW: electronics supply houses will typically give you a free, hefty, paper ECG cross-reference catalog. Also, check out http://www.nteinc.com/ to see NTE's site and how you can download on-line-accessed ECG bits. I use this NTE tool a lot to get datasheets, etc. but still find the paper-bound ECG book to be easier to use to locate obsolete parts, cross-references, and simple product descriptions. Alex in Kennebunk, Maine -----Original Message----- From: Victor Bereskin [mailto:bereskin@...] Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 11:21 PM To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1096 The 7805 is a very common 5 volt voltage regulator. Try Radio Shack part 276-1770 Vic Bereskin > Message: 6 > Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 00:34:43 EDT > From: cbtrainnut@... > Subject: Voltage regulator > > Hi all, I need to find a part for the carousell on my christmas layout. I > hope someone can help me. On the part it reads top line:KIA next line ,7805P > , 3rd line reads 8DV. > I think I figured it out to be a voltage regulator but not sure.Can anyone > help on this? Thanks, Chris Burger > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14263	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 7/30/2001
Subject: Re: regulator

cbtrainnut@... wrote: > > Thanks to all who responded to the regulator question. Went to Radio Shack > and bought one. Changed it out and it still doesn't work. Back to the > guessing game. Chris > The 7805 is not a mysterious part. Greater than 5 volts DC applied to the input leg, and exactly 5 volts output to the output leg. Center leg is ground. This is easily tested with a VOM. |-----| | | | | Viewed from front / part# side | | ------- | | | in out Center ground...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14264	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 7/30/2001
Subject: Can Motor question

We would appreciate some input be it positive or negative about the can motors that we manufacture as AF Steamer replacements. Most specifically we would like to hear from people that attended the NASG Scranton get together and saw it in action. We don't know if it was run on both AC and DC, but we set up and sent a Hudson for that purpose. We are still working on a can motor replacement for AF Diesels that won't be too complicated. Progress is in the making and we hope to have something by Thanksgiving. Thanks, and regards to all....Steve & Sam [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14265	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 7/30/2001
Subject: Amtrak AEM7 - Best of Show

I uploaded a picture of Jerry Poniatowski's AEM7. I also re-worked (made better) some of the pictures I uploaded the other day. Please re-visit. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/Scranton_model_comp/jerry_928_750s.JPG or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files then look for "Scranton_model_comp" ===== Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com Photography - Computers - Trains __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14266	From: THOMAS C. FISHER	Date: 7/30/2001
Subject: Re: HISTORY CHANNEL

Sadly, all NYC Hudsons have been converted into Packards, DeSoto's and toasters a l-o-n-g time ago. The only remnant of a NYC Hudson is a lone tender, from a class of engine that used the bar frame ( as opposed to later cast steel frames ~ so there's your start for a major project ) Even sadder is that there's less than a dozen remaining steam locomotives left that have direct lineage to NYC. One of the big reasons is that directly after WWII, NYC management banked heavily on the thought that post-war rail passenger travel would be at an all-time high. So they bought a lot of expensive passenger car equipment and found their purses pretty empty and not much coming in when reality caught up with them. So as the diesels had already made serious inroads onto the NCY properties ( including subsidiary lines ), they had to come up with the cash somewhere and with all those decrepit steam engines just laying around, the financial boys said "scrap 'em all " and most of of 'em did get scrapped. I think there's but one large NYC loco left, it was down in Elkhart, IN a few years ago, I think it was from the Mohawk class, which I believe was the 4-8-2 wheel arrangement. You'd think with all the homage paid to that class of engine within this country that a repro would be constructed. In England, where they take their steam very seriously, they "subscribe" to build or restore engines, that is, they get an accurate estimate made up , talk to all those interested and then sell subscriptions that take a certain amount of money out of the subscribers credit card account each month ~ moist people find it very easy to do this, and they've been successful at it. Regard"S", Smitty ----- Original Message ----- From: michael prell <mlprell@...> To: <anormal1@...>; <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 11:24 AM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] HISTORY CHANNEL > Didn't catch that one but a few months ago, PBS ran a > program that delt with Streamliners. One interesting > item that I had not thought about was the reason why, > other than the advent of deasel power,that steam was > replaced stemmed from the fact that the heavy use > during WWII simply wore the big monsters out. > Question. Can anyone tell me what the story is with > real New York Central Hudsons? Were they all scrapped? > Just wondering. > --- anormal1@... wrote: > > Did anyone else catch the program on the History > > Channel " Trains in War" > > It showed the history of trains in wars from the > > Civial War to WWI, WWII, > > Korean With a bit in the Viet. War Showed some > > pretty interesting BIG guns > > on trains, Etc . Also the # of GI's that were > > involved in keeping trains > > running and of taking them out...Rebuilding thew > > rails and the yards that had > > to be built near the fronts of theses wars for > > supplies...If you didn't catch > > it try the next time it comes on ....Really makes > > you think of all the people > > behind the scenes in a conflict . 60's term ... > > ..(War).....MIke > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: > > http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories > > too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > ===== > Being angry is the same as holding a hot coal in the palm of your hand. You want to hold on to it in order to throw it at another, but only hurt yourself in doing so. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14267	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 7/30/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1096

Scott Brown wrote: It just puzzles me how so much venom is spewed at Lionel here on the list, but the minute they hint they might do something in "S", many of you kick the new guy (MTH) to the curb --------------------------------------------------------- Ah yes, reminds me of a guy I knew. Always complained about Lionel/Flyer, then would by two of everything they made, one to run and one to "invest." The irony is, both Lionel and MTH versions will probably be coming from the same factory, the only difference being the "American Flyer" or "RailKing" labels. Be seeing you... Rich G. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14268	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 7/30/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1096

Dear Rich G., I am 99% sure that they do not come from the same factory in China. Don T. Rich Gajnak wrote: > Scott Brown wrote: > > It just puzzles me how so much venom is spewed > at Lionel here on the list, but the minute they hint they might do something > in "S", many of you kick the new guy (MTH) to the curb > > --------------------------------------------------------- > > Ah yes, reminds me of a guy I knew. Always > complained about Lionel/Flyer, then would by two of everything they made, one to > run and one to "invest." > > The irony is, both Lionel and MTH versions will > probably be coming from the same factory, the only difference being the > "American Flyer" or "RailKing" labels. > > Be seeing you... > > Rich G. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 F-3s and Double Sheathed boxcars are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/emdf3s_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14269	From: TED R LARSON	Date: 7/30/2001
Subject: Fw: Here are my photos shared to you via clarkcolor.com.

Here's some photos of vehicles same as, or similar to some s-scale vehicles. They might be helpful for detailing your models. They will be online for about a week. More to follow. Ted Larson Never argue with an idiot: People watching can't tell which is which. --------------------------------------- An online photo album has been activated for you. You can access this account, by clicking on the following link: http://www.clarkcolor.com/authenticate.asp?p1=CKTUSI3DXV This will bypass the login and automatically take you directly to the online photo album. Alternatively, you can visit the Clark website at: http://www.clarkcolor.com/ and login by entering an access code. The access code is: CKTUSI3DXV ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14270	From: Richard Snook	Date: 7/30/2001
Subject: congrats Jerry

Plaudits to all who entered....all deserve cudos!! (NASG convention competition) Thats a very nice model (from pix) of an AEM7 This, dare i say it is exactly what someone should be making!! :-))) Its modern, different, and understandable by the masses......sort of a modern day GG1 ( which it is!! ..lol) some cars behind..voila!! Any comments... not to detract from Jerry's model, which looks superb!! cheers >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14271	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 7/31/2001
Subject: The NASG Convention

While I was in Scranton I stopped at Gryzyboski's Hobby Shop, one of two train shops within a block of each other on the main drag, Lackawanna Ave. I was accompanied by my wife, Denise, and by Glenn Ritter, who we bumped into on the street. The shop (I AM NOT typing that name again) had a few pieces of "S", mostly Flyer NASG cars. He also had some die cast vehicles in 1/64th, including a selection of Chrysler PT Cruisers sold loose from a larger display box intended to hold 10 or 12 cars. This is the way we sometimes find schoolbuses, taxicabs and police cars in touristy shops and card stores. They were no-name cars, but nice . . . and cheap! Also, we found the Lionel tractor-trailers and some separate sale tractors, some with and some without the Big "L" on the cab door, also pretty cheap. We were able to compare against other vehicles and lo and behold (whatever that means) Lionel built these at just about a perfect 1/64th. When I got home, Classic Toy Trains arrived with an article on die-cast and there's the truck cab with a 0 gauge guy towering over the hood! (Page 56, top photo, blue truck) I got them in two shades of blue and a red. The store was loaded with 1/64th. tractor trailers in some unusual combinations. I deferred further purchases till the last day and by then I was running out of money. Oh well. So many toys, so little money. The owner of the store did a little bad-mouthing of his competitor across the street. (I'm the REAL Lionel dealer) but the other guy actually took a table at the convention! He had no S-tuff but said he wanted to get some in if he could set up an appropriate area for it. Was he blowing cedar scented smoke up my butt? Possibly, but the place was crammed, I mean crammed with trains in 0 and G and it was impressive. He was strong in MTH and Aristo-Craft. The store is worth a visit and the owner talks knowledgeably about trains, including S. He has had some discussion with Mike Wolf about it and has his own insights. So, the next time you are in Steamtown, stop into these two shops. More later, Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14272	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 7/31/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1098

The real problem as I see it, is not LIONEL or MTH, etc, etc, who are trying to keep there heads above the flood of completion, & The flood of older train & equipment for sale at meets, Older collectors dying off and leaving basements full of trains, ebay, auctions, etc,etc. IS the threat of NO young people getting onto trains, most young people haven't ridden on a real train (California Zephyr, 20 th. Century limited, etc,etc (no offence to the wonderful trains I didn't mention). We need to focus on how to entice the younger generation into trains. In Denver we have had a light rail commission for over 27 years and have only 11 mi. of light rail to show for it, can't get people out of there cars, traffic jams and road rage still doesn't convince people that rail is the only way to move large numbers of people between places with out the hassle of driving. The RMD TCA has a module that travels around and draws some attention with small kids, but I don't believe it is the answer to our problem. I believe that with a younger mobile society, small dwellings, too many other interest, WE may be a go the way of the dinosaurs and our treasured trains as fossils. what is the answer? Jerry 77-11644 ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14273	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 7/31/2001
Subject: The troubling position of Mike Wolf

russcalla@... said: >MTH said they would still produce the the log loader, but they still question >the market for continuing Am. Flyer production. I heard this at NASG. I've heard it in hobby shops. I've heard it before, right here. How many pieces does Mike need to sell to pay for the tooling? Don't answer unless you really know. Take it as rhetorical and move on. The Flyer-like accessories can fit in with his 0 gauge customers, so the support is there even without the S gaugers, or so we hear. We know he needs some minimum to make it worth the cost of bothering. So what's the minimum? Here's a possible answer. What if a fabulously successful 0 gauge manufacturer, like Mike, decided to build a bizarre looking 0 gauge car that did not fit in with any particular train? Let's say that it's an obscure type of MOW car. Let's also letter it for only one road. In fact, let's assume it models a prototype that is too tall for most tunnels, too long for most layouts, and incompatible with train consists. Would anybody buy it? Well, someone would, of course, but how many would be sold? 20? 40? Could he sell 100? Well, Mike's UP track inspection car is just that. See Classic Toy Trains September '01 issue, page 112. How many does he have to make and sell of these things to break even on the tooling? But he's making them nonetheless. If Mike can make a Union Pacific Rail Inspection Car that runs alone and on minimum 072 curves and sells for $349.95, he can certainly make S-gauge equipment. We'll buy more examples of his S-teamers and diesel-S than he'll sell of this 0-gauge oddity. Oh, you say, this is just a simple re-tooling and detailing of existing passenger car molds. It's not a complete re-tool. Really. Explain, then, the C&0 "Sacred Cow" Turbine, a nearly 4 foot long engine that has no relationship to any existing tooling and is also a model of a one road prototype. How many of those does Mike sell? As many as he would sell of an S-Gauge Berkshire or Mountain? There is also a lesson in this regarding American Models. AM is doing a terrific job, but Ron Bashista has sold himself on the idea that nobody will buy longer equipment than will run on Flyer curves. That is why the full length Zephyr project got canned. Yet, here is MTH, making all this incredible stuff that ONLY runs on 072. Go into a hobby shop and look at those monsters. Centennials, turbines, huge articulateds. Ron reads this list. When everybody here started grousing about curve radius a year or so ago, it was heard. The Zephyr got cancelled for want of 20 orders. I spoke with Ron and he would consider trying it again. If we want it, we are going to have to put our money where our mouths are. Or, we can hack it to death right here all over again. Right now we are living through the renaissance of S-gauge. There has never been so much stuff available. If all the hi-rail S-gear alone were assembled into one catalog, it would make one of those 1950's Gilbert catalogs look paltry by comparison. Heck, SHS's catalog alone has more in it than a Gilbert Flyer catalog. So it's hard right now to imagine that we might need more. Take a look at 0. They are past renaissance and into all-out glut. Trains are being manufactured that nobody ever even asked for. How many requests on the 0 gauge list do you think Mike Wolf entertained before he finally built that inspection car? Another rhetorical question with a zero answer. It's not that I am suggesting we glut the market. It's just that there soon will be a glut of stuff we already have and don't want to buy anymore. Like Alco PA's. There are a lot of them out there, but who cares? Now I'm seeing AM Pacifics laying around, unsold. Remember what a thrill it was that a new steamer was being built in S? We have to make our manufacturers realize that it makes economical sense to produce new product for us. Write Ron Bashista and tell him you would pony up the deposit on a full length all dome car Zephyr. Here is his address, do it now: info@.... Write Mike Wolf. He doesn't take deposits, but if you just tell him that you are an S-gauger and that you will buy a steamer if he makes something different than what we already have, and you will support an interesting diesel project with a purchase. Tell him that you bought the Gabe or whatever you bought from him. Identify yourself as a customer. Here is his address, do it now: sales@... . Don Thompson has a steamer in the works. E-3's and E-7's are on the way including all those delicious citrus colors of the Seaboard Orange Blossom Special, Florida East Coast, and Atlantic Coast Line. Write Don and tell him what you have bought that he produced and let him know what you are looking forward to buying in his line. Make sure he knows he has a market waiting for him. Here is his address, do it now: robin@.... Write Bill Wade. He's making a BL-2 that runs in High Rail. Thank him. But understand that the reason that this scale-only manufacturer did this is that he is using AM running gear which already had high-rail capability. Its an incidental bonus. Buy a BL-2 This will probably be the only time you can get one. Show Bill Wade the purchasing power of the high-rail dollar. He has a Santa Fe Hudson in the works, too. Plastic boiler and cab! I handled it at NASG. The running gear will be scale only. Your input could influence that. Write him and tell Bill that you would buy a high-rail 4-6-4 if he can produce it for under 500 dollars. Here is Bill's address, do it now: bill@... . The future of S-Gauge is us. We are all on the same train. Where we go has a great deal to do with how well we communicate. You have heard that one letter to a congressman or senator could sway a vote and change history. Think how much more powerful your vote will be in this microcosmic environment of only a few thousand afficionados. Work to make a future for u-S. Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14274	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 7/31/2001
Subject: A-Fossilling We Will Go!

Gerald R. Dobbs wrote: >WE may be a go the way of the dinosaurs and our >treasured trains as fossils. what is the answer? Why don't we make a new Jurassic Park movie where all the ingrate kids from 3001 AD get eaten up by a giant Bigboyus Rex while little Pacific Raptors peck their eyes out. "Duck, it's a K-5!" "Thank God there's only two of 'em!" Oops!, I said God. Bye now! 22go CZ

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14275	From: Mike Vana	Date: 7/31/2001
Subject: Another NYC Steam Loco exists

Add 4-8-2 2933 to the list of preserved NYC steam. It resides at the National Museum of Transport in suburban St. Louis, Missouri. Mike Vana Omaha, NE.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14276	From: Michael Greene	Date: 7/31/2001
Subject: Re: Another NYC Steam Loco exists

You beat to the same message -- we saw it when we were at the NMRA National Convention a couple of weeks ago. Michael At 05:21 PM 7/31/2001 -0500, Mike Vana wrote: >Add 4-8-2 2933 to the list of preserved NYC steam. >It resides at the National Museum of Transport in >suburban St. Louis, Missouri. > >Mike Vana Omaha, NE.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14277	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 7/31/2001
Subject: It's Grrrrrrrrrate!

Gerald R Dobbs said: >AMERICA is a grate place to live. Yes, but a Belpaire firebox is too hot this time of year. (It's a dry heat.) CZ

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14278	From: TED R LARSON	Date: 7/31/2001
Subject: Vehicle Photos

Some vehicles available in S scale, and some railroad detail shots. Ted Larson --------------------------------------- An online photo album has been activated for you. You can access this account, by clicking on the following link: http://www.clarkcolor.com/authenticate.asp?p1=CKCENB4H1W This will bypass the login and automatically take you directly to the online photo album. Alternatively, you can visit the Clark website at: http://www.clarkcolor.com/ and login by entering an access code. The access code is: CKCENB4H1W ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14279	From: Donald Abrams	Date: 7/31/2001
Subject: CTT Market Basket

Hi all! In the September CTT Market Basket feature they describe items from a recent Stout Auction. Specifically, in the American Flyer section they list a "Red Flyer 773 Gulf oil derrick, EX, $3,300 ! ! ! ! ! ! I'm assuming that this one actually has the Gulf emblem as it's shown in the 1951 catalog? If not, I'm sending mine to Stout and put it in their next auction. If it's legitimate, can anyone on this list shed some light on this item for those of us who have never seen one, let alone a picture of one? Have a Great Day, Don

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14280	From: Donald Abrams	Date: 7/31/2001
Subject: September CTT Flyer Hudson article

In the September CTT there's an article on Flyer Hudsons. On the top of page 74 is a photo of what is supposedly an "early S gauge Hudson . . . equipped with a smoking mechanism and 'choo-choo' sound in the tender." It sure looks like a prewar HO piece to me. No sign of any smoke or choo-choo equipment, just the directional control relays. What do you think ladies and gents? Another American Flyer faux pas by CTT? Don

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14281	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 7/31/2001
Subject: New file uploaded to S-Trains

Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the S-Trains group. File : /Geared DC Motor Conversion/GearedDC.txt Uploaded by : carl@... Description : Description of geared Conversion You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/Geared%20DC%20Motor%20Conversion/GearedDC.txt To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, carl@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14282	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 7/31/2001
Subject: Re: Canadian National Railways American Flyer Boxcar

Dear Peter, In September S Helper Service will have a new Canadian National 40' wooden reefer. The product numbers are 00699 and 00700, two number are available. Don Peter King wrote: > Good Day Gentlemen: > > I understand that American Flyer released one box car in Canadian > National colours. Does anyone on the list have one that they may be > willing to part with? If so, please reply to me off list. I have an > American Models insulated box car in CN and the SHS stock car. Are > there any other pieces of rolling stock in Canadian National that > folks could direct me to. > > Thanks in advance for any help you folks can provide. > > Cheers, > Peter King > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 F-3s and Double Sheathed boxcars are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/emdf3s_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14283	From: carl@wsbt.com	Date: 7/31/2001
Subject: Geared DC motor Conversion for AF steam Locos

I have posted a folder in the groups files showing my geared DC motor conversion that I have done on several of my AF locos using various motors and gear ratios using stock Lionel motors and gears. The worm gear is a recycled AF armature shaft turned down to accept the drive gear and shortened to fit into the rear plate using either a bronze bushing or a flanged ball bearing from an RC car. one of my conversions was done to a 342 0-8-0 that will pull stumps now. 25 AF cars up a 4% grade... (it has 4 traction tires) This reduces the current draw to less than an amp. Speed is very scale. Carl

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14284	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 7/31/2001
Subject: Re: The NASG Convention

Chris Zizzo wrote: >Also, we found the Lionel tractor-trailers and some separate sale >tractors, some with and some without the Big "L" on the cab door, >also pretty cheap. We were able to compare against other vehicles >and lo and behold (whatever that means) Lionel built these at just >about a perfect 1/64th. The Lionel highway tractor seems to be made from an umpteenth generation knock-off of the same Kenworth tractor that was originally made by Shinsei. These have been issued under several different company names over the last 20 years or so, maybe longer. Some have opening hoods, some don't. Lionel seems to be the last in line to make them. (The tooling was apparently in better shape when Yatming made them, although Lionel does use better looking wheels and tires.) According to information cast into the original Shinsei chassis tooling, they are 1/64th scale, at least the trailers are. (I checked the bottom of a Shinsei 40' trailer van.) All of the trailers that I have seen issued with the non-Lionel tractors are narrower than Lionel's "Lionelized" trailers. Isn't it interesting how so much 1/64th scale toy tooling has been resurfacing lately? Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14285	From: richard_snook@primus.com.au	Date: 7/31/2001
Subject: 1/64th scale toy tooling has been resurfacing lately?

Isn't it interesting how so much > 1/64th scale toy tooling has been resurfacing lately? > > Chuck F. maybe they have known all along as well :-))) that like the three bears knew... 1 / 64 th ....is just right !!! Wish the rest of world would wake up...lol >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14286	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 8/1/2001
Subject: Re: September CTT Flyer Hudson article

Donald Abrams wrote: >In the September CTT there's an article on Flyer Hudsons. >On the top of page 74 is a photo of what is supposedly an "early S gauge >Hudson . . . equipped with a smoking mechanism and 'choo-choo' sound in the >tender." >It sure looks like a prewar HO piece to me. No sign of any smoke or >choo-choo equipment, just the directional control relays. >What do you think ladies and gents? >Another American Flyer faux pas by CTT? I wouldn't go so far as to characterize it as a faux pas, but I am sure that is no S gauge Hudson. Compare it to the other castings. Both pre- and post-war Hudsons are the same basic casting. This one has the domes relocated as well as discrepancies in other areas. The trailing truck spring details are different and there are no whitewalls on the drivers. Early S steamers all had their whities. For a minute, I questioned whether it was even a Gilbert piece. I agree with your assessment that it was proably a pre-war HO Hudson, even though I don't have one to compare it. A faux pas might set us up to be insulted over this careless treatment at the hands of others. I think it's just an editorial boo-boo. Amazing how you cannot differentiate the scale in a photograph. Two to go, Chris Z.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14287	From: Douglass Allen	Date: 8/1/2001
Subject: off the topic

I just got back to the list after a long abscence. I was bewildered by what happened while I was gone. May I offer the following to pour oil on troubled waters.? "Most people are about as happy as they make up their minds to be." Will Rogers. "Life is short" Quai Chang Caine "Be true to your teeth and they'll never be false to you" Soupy Sales [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14288	From: Doug Peck	Date: 8/1/2001
Subject: Re: Scranton, etc

Just a quick report that we had five items at Scranton that received very favorable responses: (1) The S-n-S can-motor conversions were VERY well received. We took over 60 with us, sold them out, and took orders for about 20 more. Since returning, I've received additional orders as well! We should have them back in stock by early next week. (2) The heavyweight passenger resin shell samples were also well-received. Although we only had samples, we did take a few orders, and hope to have these all in stock by the end of the month. Of the 5 shells, there seemed to be the most interest (and orders) in the RPO shell.....a car ACG never made. (3) The new steam Pullmor rims, complete with factory-attached rubber, drew interest as well. These can be used to rebuild both original PM and non-PM drivers. Should have these ready early this fall, we hope. (4) Reproduction vans for the ACG Monon trailer flatcars. (5) Our soon-to-be-released NCCX flatcar with two Bakers Chocolate trailer vans. This car will complement our previous NCCX flatcar with BC milk containers, as well as the original ACG BC tankcars. As soon as this car is ready to ship (sometime this month), we'll have it on our website. One last comment---we're working on getting our AF Parts Catalog on-line, and it shouldn't be too much longer. We also now have in stock a "complete line" of all the Plasticville reproduction parts that are available....about 60-70 items. Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14289	From: michael prell	Date: 8/1/2001
Subject: Re: September CTT Flyer Hudson article

Editorial BOO, BOO!?!? Look. If CTT can't take the time to do the proper research then shame on them. There is no excuse for mistakes like that. Not for the $ one pays to buy the publication. That's like someone writing a story about '57 Chevy's and showing a '57 Ford as an example. Do the homework and get it right. They used to teach that in high school! Have our standards dropped to that low a level? Hay Maudie! Have you seen my Prozac??? --- Chris Zizzo <busyboy@...> wrote: > Donald Abrams wrote: > >In the September CTT there's an article on Flyer > Hudsons. > >On the top of page 74 is a photo of what is > supposedly an "early S gauge > >Hudson . . . equipped with a smoking mechanism and > 'choo-choo' sound in the > >tender." > >It sure looks like a prewar HO piece to me. No sign > of any smoke or > >choo-choo equipment, just the directional control > relays. > >What do you think ladies and gents? > >Another American Flyer faux pas by CTT? > > I wouldn't go so far as to characterize it as a faux > pas, but I am sure that > is no S gauge Hudson. Compare it to the other > castings. Both pre- and > post-war Hudsons are the same basic casting. This > one has the domes > relocated as well as discrepancies in other areas. > The trailing truck > spring details are different and there are no > whitewalls on the drivers. > Early S steamers all had their whities. For a > minute, I questioned whether > it was even a Gilbert piece. I agree with your > assessment that it was > proably a pre-war HO Hudson, even though I don't > have one to compare it. > > A faux pas might set us up to be insulted over this > careless treatment at > the hands of others. I think it's just an editorial > boo-boo. Amazing how > you cannot differentiate the scale in a photograph. > > Two to go, > Chris Z. > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: > http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories > too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > ===== Being angry is the same as holding a hot coal in the palm of your hand. You want to hold on to it in order to throw it at another, but only hurt yourself in doing so. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14290	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 8/1/2001
Subject: The troubling position of AF Track

Chris Zizzo <busyboy@...> was complaining about MTH making stuff that only runs on O-72. And that AM only makes stuff for S-44 (true AF track). Question: Where are the S-72 curves and switches? Lionel brought out the O-72 stuff in the 1930s or 20s. If someone were to bring them out TODAY in S-Scale, I will buy 10 left switches and 10 right switches and enough curves for three circles. Today. With cash. Required: closed frogs so I can run scale and highrail. Also transition pieces to couple with Flyer track. (Even better, S-90 which is a 45 inch radius. Even the imported brass can do 45 inches!) Let's stop bashing Ron of AM and Mike of MTH. They are making a living BASED ON THE SECTIONAL TRACK AVAILABLE. Any takers on my offer for S-72 or S-90? I've got cash... Thorin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14291	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 8/1/2001
Subject: 'RAILMASTER 1969279 3/16', Made of hard rubber, 2.2IN SQR BY 1/4 I

Paul posted a photo of this at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/. I was lucky enough to get about 30 of these and would happily buy another 100. These are sockets for AF track. Put two sections of AF track together. Now drop the joint into the socket on the rubber block. Your AF track is now suspended in the air (like on AF trestles) and has a rubber cushion. The sockets also works as a track lock so your track will not separate. I use my few in a staging yard. They are just as quiet as AF rubber roadbed and incorporate a track lock as well. Thorin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14292	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 8/1/2001
Subject: Re: The troubling position of AF Track

Thorin Marty said: >Chris Zizzo was complaining about MTH making stuff that only runs on O-72. And that >AM only makes stuff for S-44 (true AF track). >Let's stop bashing Ron of AM and Mike of MTH. They are making a living >BASED ON THE SECTIONAL TRACK AVAILABLE. Thorin: I think you may have misread my post. There was no complaining whatsoever. Nor was there any bashing at all. In fact, I cannot imagine how you got that from what I wrote. The purpose of my post was to make list members pro-active in dealing with manufacturers and making it quite clear what they want from those manufacturers. While I agree that there is a dearth of wide turnouts in S, these are also the companies who will make them. It would be far easier for a train maker with an operating infrastructure to retool for wide turnouts than for them to tool up for new rolling stock. If they build the trains, they can build the track. As it is, there is enough hi-rail flex track already in existence to make any curve you desire. Long car trains can at least be mainlined at this time. I guess a good thing to ask for, in your case at least, is S-72 and S-90 switches. What I would like is for Ross, the maker of all those cool Gargraves compatible Y's and Crossovers in 0 gauge to start building them in S. I talk to them about it constantly. Every item added to the S repertoire builds the backbone of the gauge. 0 has a true spine. S, while far improved from the old days, still must build to offer flexibility in railroading equipment, at least on the high rail end of the gauge. MTH is now building obscure trains that hardly anyone will buy, but they keep insisting that they can't afford to tool up for the "limited market" of S. That's nonsense. Ron Bashista did not cancel the Zephyr project because there was no sectional track available to run the trains. He can make the track. He cancelled it because guys he listened to whined that they already had layouts with tight curves and couldn't he cut the cars shorter. Their voices were louder than ours. My post was a call to speak up. Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14293	From: mlmarmer	Date: 8/1/2001
Subject: Re: The NASG Convention

And he also has a vintage signed photograph of Neil Young, in the shop, who didn't collect the collect scale and brought into the wrong train company. Mike Marmer Germantown, MD

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14294	From: Mark Preman	Date: 8/1/2001
Subject: American Flyer Trains For Sale

The new list is posted. Aside from the new stuff, I have also reduced prices on slow moving inventory(I need the cash flow, you know). Mark Click on this: http://www.americanflyertrains.com ===== Mark B. Preman AmericanFlyerTrains.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14295	From: mlmarmer	Date: 8/1/2001
Subject: Fw: [S-Trains] The NASG Convention

The second word "collect" sould of been "correct". Sorry about not proof reading the message. ----- Original Message ----- From: "mlmarmer" <mlmarmer@...> To: "slist" <s-trains@yahoogroups.com>; "Chris Zizzo" <busyboy@...> Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2001 12:57 PM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] The NASG Convention > And he also has a vintage signed photograph of Neil Young, in the shop, who > didn't collect the collect scale and brought into the wrong train company. > > Mike Marmer > Germantown, MD >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14296	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 8/1/2001
Subject: Westerfield Poling Pockets

I have been using Westerfield's poling pockets on my steeple cabs. I was getting them from Walthers but they stopped stocking them. Does anyone know of this company or item? Westerfield Route 21, Box 374 River Road Crossville, TN 38555 2139 Poling Pkt, Hopper $1.50 / 4 (Walther's number was 783-2139.) These are 'bolted on' poling pockets for a wooden HO hopper. They look great on S-Scale equipment and attach with a drop of glue. If anyone has another source of a poling pocket casting, I am interested. Thorin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14297	From: ALLAN V EISENHAUR	Date: 8/1/2001
Subject: Digest #1099

Hello Did everyone get S Trains Digest 1099, as I didnot, this the second time this has happen. It's a pain in the butt to go to yahoo and retrieve the messages. Can someone who still has the digest send it to me. Thanks AL ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14298	From: Kimball, Bob (CH)	Date: 8/1/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1094

Robert, I responded to your message off-list, that I was interested, but my message bounced. Are you still there and selling? Bob > ---------- > From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com[SMTP:S-Trains@yahoogroups.com] > Reply To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 12:53 AM > To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1094 > > > Message: 7 > Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 17:24:18 -0700 > From: "t" <yabo@...> > Subject: Gargraves track for sale > > I have an unused box of Gargraves Stainless Steel track and 8 switches. > The > box contains 24 three foot sections. Two have been out of the box and test > fit to the switches.. The switches are the older closed frog type. The > track is listed on the GarGraves website for $8.75/section. > > I will sell the whole lot for $100 or best offer, you pay shipping. > > Robert E. Yablonski > 949-888-1194 > yabo@... > > > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14299	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 8/1/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1096

Regarding "Big L's" foray into S steam, might that be like Yugo reviving the Packard? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14300	From: Mike Vana	Date: 8/1/2001
Subject: Classic Toy Trains AF Hudson Article

The Classic Toy Trains article indeed showed an H-O Hudson with the tender body removed. Like someone already said, it did not show a smoke and choo-choo unit in the tender like CTT said. Also, did anyone notice that in the picture of the five Hudsons spread across the two pages, the one next to the front is an O gauge engine with an S gauge tender shell? Notice the fatter looking trucks, the all metal drivers and wheels on the front truck, and lack of wires between the engine and tender. CTT should have done better research. They made no mention of the H-O Hudson in the text, and even though they are not an H-O oriented magazine, those should have been mentioned. They were made for lots of years and are fairly common. I notice that CTT tries to have an American Flyer article in every issue. I would quit subscribing if CTT leaned any more toward Lionel. I'm not crazy about any kind of three-rail trains at all, but I have converted some scale proportioned three-rail to two-rail O scale operation. Mike Vana Omaha, NE. e told about

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14301	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 8/1/2001
Subject: Re: A-Fossilling We Will Go!

Chris Zizzo wrote: >Why don't we make a new Jurassic Park movie where all the ingrate >kids from 3001 AD get eaten up by a giant Bigboyus Rex while little >Pacific Raptors peck their eyes out. >"Duck, it's a K-5!" >"Thank God there's only two of 'em!" "The...Pacifics? Oh, no! Don't tell me you've cloned the PACIFICS!!!" Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14302	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 8/2/2001
Subject: Re: possible virus alert

David, Doug indicated SirCam was identified. Pretty nasty virus in itself. Not all update utilities caught SirCam early enough . A web Based scan is available free from Central Command and includes an identification, sweep and clean of SirCam. Not certain about Code-Red but have not received update notices and / or warnings yet. It appears to be attacking servers and hosts , but Linux based systems seem quite resistant. Computer Associates InoculateIT has been reliable for me and can be downloaded and also has a Free download version. Same for Central Command Anti Virus Expert Lite, download for free. I use both, and Zonealarm Firewall (I believe it is up to version 2.6). I had McAfee but these seem to work better, although the combination does slow down the computer. Good Luck, Dennis Troini

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14303	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 8/2/2001
Subject: my bad

I would like to apologize to all for my ungentlemanly behavior in the heated exchanges of last week. Although it is an important point that postings on religious and political topics do not belong on this list, the rude and angry way I went about things was no way to convince anyone of anything. i would especially like to apologize to Mr. Conner, and also Mr. Troini and Paul Yorke. After reviewing the entire exchange, I was way out of line. Or should I say, way out of orbit? Houston, we had a problem! I hope that we can all reestablish cordial relations in the future. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14304	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 8/2/2001
Subject: disenchanted with CTT

I dropped my CTT subscription this year, and put the money toward Classic Trains and joined NASG instead. Its one thing to be O-centric, but another to make so many pictorial, technical, and editorial mistakes. PS If you haven't tried Classic Trains, pick up a copy. Its great to see "real-thing" photos of so many of our favorite toy trains, and to read some terrific stories of working on long gone RR's. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14305	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 8/2/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1100

Marty Thorin: Why not take a few minutes make your own 72 inch or other radius, I do it all the time using regular Flyer track. Draw your self a templet on a sheet of cardboard, loosen the track ties, reshape the track to your desired radius and re-tighten the ties. use the switches as best u can. This is what model railroading is all about. If you have questions on this procedure Email me off line. Enjoy Jerry 77-11644 ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14306	From: Ted Larson	Date: 8/2/2001
Subject: Wire

There has been much past discussion regarding conductivity and corrosion resistance of nickel silver vs brass rail. http://www.jewelwire.com/products.shtml provides some information on this topic. ===== Ted Larson __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14307	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 8/2/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1100

Jerry, Your track work might be of great interest to the list. It is here. Jim Lyle [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14308	From: Gregg Mummert	Date: 8/2/2001
Subject: After leaving the convention in Scranton....

We stopped at the Eastern Museum of Motor Racing on the way from Scranton to Hanover to visit the folks. In the corner of the one room, someone had donated a working replica of Williams Grove Speedway (a nearby dirt track). I am guessing this was a home-made, possibly pre-slotcar, attempt at model racing. What made it interesting is the person used Flyer S track and rail mounted flush in plywood, bending curves to provide two lanes on the oval racetrack. The cars were a variety of plastic and tin toys fitted with drives from Flyer maintenance cars and rocket sleds. Of course, small Flyer transformers were used for power - one for each lane and one for the floodlights. The "layout" measured about 4'X 6'. Unfortunately, I didn't have my camera with me! The museum is located off Rt 15, between Dillsburg and York Springs. If you are ever in the area, check it out. Their website is: http://www.emmr.org/ Gregg Mummert _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14309	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 8/2/2001
Subject: so what's this?

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1621014335 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14310	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 8/2/2001
Subject: Re: so what's this?

I saw this the other day and couldn't figure out what it was exactly, but decided I wanted it, so don't bid against me please. Roger Petrella Franktown, CO david_horn@... wrote: > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1621014335 > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14311	From: pieter_roos@yahoo.com	Date: 8/2/2001
Subject: Re: so what's this?

It's a model of the Jersey Central Baldwin double ended passenger locomotive. I've no idea if it is a comercial piece, custom work or somebody's scratchbuilding excercise. Pieter --- In S-Trains@y..., "Roger V. Petrella Jr." <rogerpjr@i...> wrote: > I saw this the other day and couldn't figure out what it was exactly, but decided > I wanted it, so don't bid against me please. > > Roger Petrella > Franktown, CO > > > david_horn@b... wrote: > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1621014335 > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@e... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14312	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 8/2/2001
Subject: Re: The troubling position of AF Track

Chriz Zizzo wrote: Ron Bashista did not cancel the Zephyr project because there was no sectional track available to run the trains. He can make the track. He cancelled it because guys he listened to whined that they already had layouts with tight curves and couldn't he cut the cars shorter. Their voices were louder than ours. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- It was more because of a lack of voices. As I remember it, Ron asked for 100 deposits of $100 per set to start the project. This would have covered about one-third of the development costs. The Zephyr project was in response to some of the more boisterous scalers carping about the 74' Budd cars. (Note: I am primarily a scaler. NO, I didn't carp about the shortened cars and YES, I did send in a deposit.) Rather than rejoicing that Budd cars finally were being made in S, although shortened, the unhappy few made a great noise about the length of the AM Budd cars. The Zephyr project was basically Ron's "put up or shut up" response to those scalers. Ron got 80 deposits (I think) within the specified time frame. That, combined with a slowing economy led Ron to shelve the project for now, and return the deposits. Rich G. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14313	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 8/2/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Wire

Dear Ted, If we do not know the exact alloys, how does this help? Don Ted Larson wrote: > There has been much past discussion regarding conductivity and > corrosion resistance of nickel silver vs brass rail. > http://www.jewelwire.com/products.shtml > provides some information on this topic. > > ===== > Ted Larson > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ > > The topic is S Scale please keep your messages 'on-topic'. > To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 F-3s and Double Sheathed boxcars are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/emdf3s_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14314	From: David A. Highfield	Date: 8/2/2001
Subject: Fw: S guage steam engine

MHT seems responsive. Keep the faith. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Edleman" <sales@...> To: "David A. Highfield" <davidh@...> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 1:49 AM Subject: Re: S guage steam engine > Dear Mr. Highfield, > > Thank you for your suggestion about our future product lines. We're always > happy to hear from our customers, so we know what you want and can continue > to provide the variety of interesting products people ask for. As you may > know, we get many of our ideas from folks like you who take the time to > write in and tell us what you want. We've put your request for an S Gauge > steam locomotive in with others for our marketing and product development > teams to evaluate when planning future product lines. We've had countless > requests for some S Gauge offerings and are aggressively studying the S > marketplace. Keep your eyes open--you may see what you've asked for in the > future! > > > Sincerely, > > Andy Edleman > Vice President - Marketing > M.T.H. Electric Trains > > > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14315	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 8/2/2001
Subject: Re: disenchanted with CTT

David wrote: >I dropped my CTT subscription this year, and put the money toward >Classic Trains and joined NASG instead. Its one thing to be O- >centric, but another to make so many pictorial, technical, and >editorial mistakes. I dropped CTT several years ago because we had just too many mags piling up. At the time (early '90s?) their info seemed pretty reliable, even with S gauge. Their "Tinplate Prototypes" feature was the only place I've seen it correctly reported that the Gilbert company did not - repeat:NOT - refer to the UP Northern loco as a "Challenger", but applied that name to the SETS that the Northern came with. Of course, the UP had a "Challenger" service as well as a 4-6-6-4 loco with the same name. Sometimes the Challenger trains (not locos) were pulled with the FEF-1 "Little 800" class of Northern, which the AF Northern is. I thought it was pretty good reporting, since the AF Challenger/Northern myth has been repeated in every kind of publication, from small club newsletters to expensive, hard-bound books. It's too bad that CTT has gotten sloppy. Oh well. Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14316	From: Mark Preman	Date: 8/3/2001
Subject: American Flyer Trains For Sale

The new list is posted. Aside from the new stuff, I also reduced prices on slow moving inventory (I need the cash flow, you know). Mark Click on this: http://www.americanflyertrains.com ===== Mark B. Preman AmericanFlyerTrains.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14317	From: ALLAN V EISENHAUR	Date: 8/3/2001
Subject: Digest #1099

Thanks to all who sent me the digest. I am all set till the next time. AL ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14318	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 8/3/2001
Subject: Re: so what's this?

No, I was beat out by a totally different player at the end. I bid more than 30% higher than the previous bidders thinking they wouldn't go that high based on what they were doing. Then someone jumped in who must have really wanted it bad or knew more about it. Roger Paul Yorke wrote: > well did you get it? > did you find out anything else? > maybe this has some ideas for the diesel re-moter > guys? > --- "Roger V. Petrella Jr." <rogerpjr@...> > wrote: > > I saw this the other day and couldn't figure out > > what it was exactly, but decided > > I wanted it, so don't bid against me please. > > > > Roger Petrella > > Franktown, CO > > > > > > david_horn@... wrote: > > > > > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1621014335 > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: > > http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories > > too! > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: > > http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories > > too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > ===== > Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com > Photography - Computers - Trains > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14319	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 8/3/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, August 5, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14320	From: TED R LARSON	Date: 8/3/2001
Subject: Virus

http://www.zdnet.com/filters/printerfriendly/0,6061,2776123-77,00.html The subject of these lists is 1/64th scale trains, but recent virus activity, including viruses within these groups, is cause for a reminder; DON'T OPEN any e-mail attachment unless it is from someone you know, you are expecting it, you know what it is, and you scan it with your anti-virus software before opening it. For much more information, see the URL above. Failure to practice safe web use can cause you and us much grief and possible loss. Ted Larson Never argue with an idiot: People watching can't tell which is which. ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14321	From: Bill Lane	Date: 8/3/2001
Subject: Kadee Spiker

Hi All, After much pontification, I have decided to sell my Kadee Spiker. http://users.snip.net/~billlane/spiker.jpg It is for code 100 rail. I am going to list it on Ebay on Sunday night unless someone wants it before then. I have seen what they are going for on Ebay. I paid $100.00 for it 12 years ago. I bought it from the original owner who said Kadee rebuilt it just before he sold it to me. I have used it to put down approximately 200 feet of S scale track in a yard module. I need the money for an S Scale B & O EM-1 that is being made next year. Included are 2 sealed spike packs (about 8000) and one that is about 1/2 used. The original Styrofoam box is in good condition. I am going to have a minimum bid of $250.00. Any takers? This informal auction ends this Sunday night at 6:00 p.m. Thanks Bill

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14322	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 8/4/2001
Subject: Poll results for S-Trains

The following S-Trains poll is now closed. Here are the final results: POLL QUESTION: Would you consider buying any "New" American Flyer if more was made available? CHOICES AND RESULTS - Yes, 40 votes, 67.80% - No, 19 votes, 32.20% For more information about this group, please visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14323	From: TWYLA STARR	Date: 8/4/2001
Subject: 4-8-4 chassis bushings

Greetings, I have 2, 4-8-4, A.F. chassis that the axle bushings are worn badly in. Does anyone have any experience in replacing them? I have located a source for the bushings but was wondering whether to try it myself or have it done. Thanks in advance for your advice, J.R. Starr [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14324	From: honkelrs	Date: 8/4/2001
Subject: Odd Shaped Coupler On An S-Gauge LTI Boxcar

I just opened up an LTI S-Gauge boxcar that I purchased some time ago at a train show and after putting it on my layout and trying to operate it in a mix of LTI, ACG and SHS consist I've experienced no end of trouble with derailments with the car on curves. When I examined the couplers on the car they appear to be of a different design than any I have ever seen on either ACG or LTI units. What is different is the fixed part of the coupler in that it does not have a flared tip allowing an adjacent coupler to move freely as it goes into a curve. Has anyone ever experienced this oddity in an LTI car or engine ? By the way, the car is a #8318 Erector Set Inventor S Gauge Pioneer commemorative boxcar. Thanks for any info, Russ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14325	From: Rick Evans	Date: 8/4/2001
Subject: Re: coupler problems with LTI.....

I had somewhat the same problem with a SHS Wooden reefer...worked with older Flyer, newer Lionel Flyer,..BUT, had a problem with an older Lionel Flyer boxcar. I have never run my A.C. Gilbert Lionel boxcar, it has just been on display, just compared it with my '96 Lionel Flyer Christmas boxcar and there is a difference with the couplers. The flange IS different! According to Greenberg, the A.C. Gilbert car came out in '93. My 9701 Rock Island came out in '80. OK,..now I'm confused!! Maybe I did run the A.C. car,....I just tried to couple my SHS to the '93, '96 and '80 boxcars (just on the table, didn't run 'em on the track) and they all seem to couple together! Hmmm....what WAS my problem a few months ago?? It still seems it was the '93 boxcar with a smaller flange. Might have to take this to the layout!! Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14326	From: carl@wsbt.com	Date: 8/4/2001
Subject: American Flyer Geep Power truck electrial pickup improvement.

Most of the Lionel-American Flyer Geep series engines have what I consider a defect in the assembly of the power truck. The wheel-axle assemblies of the power truck are switched front to rear. The traction tire wheel should be next to the truck side-frame power pickup. Not all of the trucks were assembled with this defect, but most were. The only one I have that was correctly built from the factory was the 370 GM demonstrator re-issue. By switching the axles from front to rear in the power truck frame it will spread the trucks ability to pickup power over switch frogs and crossovers and greatly improve performance... I have posted a web page and files showing a simple fix to the groups files. The page has a lot of pictures so it takes a little while to load. The link to the page is: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/AF-GP-Truckfix/AF- GPTruckFix.htm Carl

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14327	From: gino restivo	Date: 8/5/2001
Subject: Re: 4-8-4 chassis bushings

hi , jr it appeared no answered your post i would suggest you do the repair and also to use / get one of the alignment tools from a parts dealer or a friend to reinstall the wheel ...... its not a tough job ... have fun , gino -----Original Message----- From: TWYLA STARR <starr007@...> To: S-TRAINS <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Date: Saturday, August 04, 2001 11:21 AM Subject: [S-Trains] 4-8-4 chassis bushings >Greetings, I have 2, 4-8-4, A.F. chassis that the axle bushings are worn badly in. Does anyone have any experience in replacing them? I have located a source for the bushings but was wondering whether to try it myself or have it done. Thanks in advance for your advice, J.R. Starr > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > ---------------------------------------------------- NetZero Platinum Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month! http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14328	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 8/5/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, August 5, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14329	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 8/5/2001
Subject: MY VIEW OF THE NASG CONVENTION

Some pictures to go with my NASG convention story: http://www.geocities.com/glenn_ritter/ then go to National Association of S Gaugers Convention. Tuesday, July 24, we met at a train club members home and packed our modular railroad into several vehicles for the train convention. Wednesday morning Lin said goodby and went to work at 7:00am. At 7:15am I headed for Scranton, Steamtown and the train convention. We set up our layout from 10:00am til 1:00pm and ran trains until Saturday at 1:00pm. Thursday several of us went to the Steamtown National Historic Site where we saw two other club layouts, many old steam locomotives and a tour of the locomotive shops where they are rebuilding two Pennsylvania Steam Locomotives and restoring three passenger cars damaged during a hurricane in Florida. The shop in it's heyday had 70 employees repairing engines in a few months. The park service has 6 employees and the repairs take years. Many engines on display will never be repaired, too costly. Friday morning I took notes at our 3 hour Board meeting. Friday afternoon we went on a two hour steam train ride, about 400 of us. Over 500 registered for this convention. Saturday morning I took notes for one and a half hours at the general membership meeting, my third as secretary. Staurday night we had about 250 at the banquet. I arrived home to Ollie around midnight.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14330	From: t	Date: 8/5/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1103

I noticed this on my Milwaukee units. Took them apart, pounded out the axles, and moved the power pickup. Fixed the problem just as you say. I wrote to LTI and told them about the problem. No answer. Robert E. Yablonski Message: 4 Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 03:51:24 -0000 From: carl@... Subject: American Flyer Geep Power truck electrial pickup improvement. Most of the Lionel-American Flyer Geep series engines have what I consider a defect in the assembly of the power truck. The wheel-axle assemblies of the power truck are switched front to rear. The traction tire wheel should be next to the truck side-frame power pickup. Not all of the trucks were assembled with this defect, but most were. The only one I have that was correctly built from the factory was the 370 GM demonstrator re-issue. By switching the axles from front to rear in the power truck frame it will spread the trucks ability to pickup power over switch frogs and crossovers and greatly improve performance... I have posted a web page and files showing a simple fix to the groups files. The page has a lot of pictures so it takes a little while to load. The link to the page is: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/AF-GP-Truckfix/AF- GPTruckFix.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14331	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 8/5/2001
Subject: Re: Track Cleaning Car Maker

Dear Jim, You can find the company that makes the track cleaning PS-2 covered hopper for S gauge track at: http://www.aztectrains.com/pages/TrackClean-G,O&S.html Don JamesIngram@... wrote: > Don - > > SUBJECT: Track Cleaning Car Made From SHS Covered Hopper > > 1--At the Scranton NASG event, I think you mentioned you could email > me the contact information to get in touch with the manufacturer of > the track cleaning cars you were using on your layout. > > If you have that info handy, could you please send it. > > Thanks. - Jim Ingram > > P.S. -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 F-3s and Double Sheathed boxcars are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/emdf3s_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14332	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 8/6/2001
Subject: Re: Fall Get Together

The CJSS Fall Get-Togeher has been moved one week forward to Saturday September 22nd to accommodate some of our dealers and members. If you are planning on coming, please note this change in you calendar. It will be held in the Christ Church Hall, Main St., South Amboy, NJ. I will post more information in the coming weeks including directions. Please respond to this e-mail address if you have any questions. Don E Kelly wrote: > Hi Don, I heard the date of the Fall Get Together has been changed > to September 22nd. Please confirm and could you provide directions to > the meet? I think others would be interested in this information, so > could you post your answer to the S Scale list for the benefit of > everyone?Thanks,Ed Kelly -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 F-3s and Double Sheathed boxcars are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/emdf3s_in_stock.html [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14333	From: ALLAN V EISENHAUR	Date: 8/6/2001
Subject: Digest #1101

Hello on the list Yahoo groups did it to me again I did not get #1101, but got #1102-1103 , this the third time this has happen. Has any one had this problem ? AS I said it's a pain in the butt to go to yahoo and retrieve the messages one at a time. Can someone who still has the digest send it to me. Thanks AL [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14334	From: ALLAN V EISENHAUR	Date: 8/6/2001
Subject: AF Service Manual on CD

Hi All I thought I would pass this on to everyone on the list. I just purchased a AF Service Manual on a CD from Studeolet@... for $20 + $1 postage. He has copied what looks like original service sheets much like the Greenbergs book. The CD also has some AF HO and other items. The great thing of CD is you can zoom in on a page and print it. This makes it lot easier than trying to copy a page out of the Greenbergs or Kline books. AL [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14335	From: ALLAN V EISENHAUR	Date: 8/6/2001
Subject: Digest #1101

Thanks to who ever sent the Digest 1101 all set. Thanks AL ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14336	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 8/6/2001
Subject: FW: re: The troubling position of AF Track

To all: Chris wants a public retraction of ruffled feathers. Please consider this the official 'smoothing down'. As all of my posts have been trying to say: Switches: I would like to purchase a closed frog, #6 or #8 switch with integral ground throw or switch machine that I can treat like a slightly more fragile AF 720 and connect to true AF track. (If an Atlas switch controller is used, the switches can form a true ladder track.) Since my original post have started exchanging e-mails with Nick Mescher of Classic Trains, American "S" Gauge(tm) who has closed frog #8 switches. Curves: I would like to purchase S-90 curves (45 inch radius) sectional track that I can put into a box and when I pull it out it is still S-90. (Just like true AF 702 Curve which is S-44.) Flex-track could be used if I mount it to something but what to mount it to and then I worry about rail head heights. Although I have a number of choices for flex track, I don't have a supplier for S-90 curves. TODAY I have the money to purchase these items. Enough said. I'm shutting up. Thorin -----Original Message----- From: Chris Zizzo [mailto:Busyboy@...] Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 6:51 PM To: Marty.Thorin Subject: Re: re: The troubling position of AF Track It's not that you ruffled feathers, Thorin. It's that posts like yours mislead others. If I say "Gee, we ought to get more gear made and take a pro-active stance with the manufacturers", and you AGREE, then why would you categorize my post as Mike bashing and Ron trashing. It makes no sense. Then people who might have been swayed by my argument, back off, thinking, "Oh, this is just another of those list arguments." Post your retraction on the list, where the damage was done, and where it will do some good. Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marty.Thorin" <Thorin.Marty@...> To: <busyboy@...> Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 1:07 PM Subject: Re: re: The troubling position of AF Track > Dear Chris: > I agree with what you said! > > My objective, then and now, is to see some WIDE radius sectional track and > switches I can throw into a box and take somewhere else -- like to school > to show the kiddies. AC took care of my need for straight track and TIGHT > curves and TIGHT switches. S-90 (45 inch radius) is my suggested size and > I am willing to purchase S-90, closed frog, switches with built-in ground > throws TODAY. > > Sorry if I ruffled any feathers. > > Thorin > > P.S. I am exchanging e-mails with Nick Mescher of Classic Trains, > American "S" Gauge(tm) who has closed frog #8 switches. > > > --------------------- > > Subject: re: The troubling position of AF Track > > Thorin Marty said: > Chris Zizzo was complaining about MTH making stuff that only runs on > O -72 And that AM only makes stuff for S-44 (true AF track). > Let's stop bashing Ron of AM and Mike of MTH. They are making a living > BASED ON THE SECTIONAL TRACK AVAILABLE. > > Thorin: > > I think you may have misread my post. There was no complaining > whatsoever. Nor was there any bashing at all. In fact, I cannot > imagine how you got that from what I wrote. > > The purpose of my post was to make list members pro-active in dealing with > manufacturers and making it quite clear what they want from those > manufacturers. While I agree that there is a dearth of wide turnouts in > S, these are also the companies who will make them. It would be far easier > for a train maker with an operating infrastructure to retool for wide > turnouts than for them to tool up for new rolling stock. > > If they build the trains, they can build the track. As it is, there is > enough hi-rail flex track already in existence to make any curve you > desire. Long car trains can at least be mainlined at this time. I guess > a good thing to ask for, in your case at least, is S-72 and S-90 switches. > What I would like is for Ross, the maker of all those cool Gargraves > compatible Y's and Crossovers in 0 gauge to start building them in S. I > talk to them about it constantly. > > Every item added to the S repertoire builds the backbone of the gauge. 0 > has a true spine. S, while far improved from the old days, still must > build to offer flexibility in railroading equipment, at least on the high > rail end of the gauge. MTH is now building obscure trains that hardly > anyone will buy, but they keep insisting that they can't afford to tool > up for the "limited market" of S. That's nonsense. > > Ron Bashista did not cancel the Zephyr project because there was no > sectional track available to run the trains. He can make the track. He > cancelled it because guys he listened to whined that they already had > layouts with tight curves and couldn't he cut the cars shorter. Their > voices were louder than ours. My post was a call to speak up. > > Two to go, > Chris Zizzo > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14337	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 8/6/2001
Subject: Re: my bad

Thank you Tom, This is quite gracious and gentlemanly of you. I would like to extend my apologies to you for becoming so heated in the exchanges last week, to Paul Yorke and the list as whole again, for subjecting them to that exchange and to Mr. Conner for , uninvited , taking up and extending that exchange beyond reasonable limits. Anger and passion I believe took us both over, and this discussion simply descended into rudeness on both our parts because of passionate personal beliefs that are clearly at odds and not appropriate to the list. I too was well out of line and hope we can put this behind us and re-establish a cordial relationship and dialogue. My Apologies and Regards. Thank You, Dennis Troini On Tue, 31 Jul 2001 14:56:04 -0400 jarcho@... writes: > I would like to apologize to all for my ungentlemanly behavior in > the > heated exchanges of last week. Although it is an important point > that > postings on religious and political topics do not belong on this > list, the > rude and angry way I went about things was no way to convince anyone > of > anything. > > i would especially like to apologize to Mr. Conner, and also Mr. > Troini and > Paul Yorke. After reviewing the entire exchange, I was way out of > line. > Or should I say, way out of orbit? Houston, we had a problem! > > I hope that we can all reestablish cordial relations in the future. > > Tom Jarcho > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14338	From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi	Date: 8/6/2001
Subject: Turnout Radii

Hi all: I think this was discussed recently, but I just can't find the info in my files on track! Did someone say what the curve radii were for #3, #4, #6 and #8 turnouts? I am going to order some and would like to get turnouts that could potentially be used for some of the scale brass engines that are available, as well as for some of the AF engines. What are the radii of curvature for the various turnouts? I assume that the AF turnouts, which are about #3, are something like 19" or whatever AF track is. What are the others? Tx for the info. R. Velapoldi

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14339	From: Mark Preman	Date: 8/6/2001
Subject: Great American Train Show This Weekend-Orlando

The biggest show of the year for Central Florida at the Orlando Fairgrounds (route 50) this weekend. Open from 11am to 5 pm Saturday and Sunday. Mark ===== Mark B. Preman AmericanFlyerTrains.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14340	From: Bill Lane	Date: 8/6/2001
Subject: Pennsy S Models X-29

Hi All, Dan and I are back and almost recovered from the N A S G convention. We achieved our goal of showing the pilot model of our PRR X-29 boxcar at the convention. Dan is going to debut the photos of the pilot model on our website www.pennsysmodels.com which will hopefully be in about a week. For the moment, he has to concentrate on his "real" job. Here is what our table at the convention looked like for those who were unable to attend. http://users.snip.net/~billlane/table.jpg The X-29 is in the far corner near the chair. We also have a LARGE O scale "hint" at what our second project will be in the center of the table. We will be adding the information for that project to the website as well. Dan and I would like to thank everyone who stopped by our table. Your compliments and deposits were most appreciated. It only reaffirmed our commitment to bring the X-29 project to a successful completion. I was running the pilot model on my layout last night. It felt great to have it in the mix of cars from S Helper Service and Pacific Rails Shops. The diversity of the styles and roof heights in the boxcars and reefers had a very prototypical feel to it. Gentleman, I can assure you that while it may be "brown" and a boxcar, it will not be "just another ordinary brown boxcar." Here is a short list of previously unavailable features that include Celcon bushings in the trucks, punched (not etched) rivets for that three-dimensional look, and a prototypical draft gear that clearly separates this car from the ordinary. We are still taking reservations if you are interested. Thank You, Bill Lane Pennsy S Models

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14341	From: Euell Johnson	Date: 8/6/2001
Subject: Re: my bad

This happens to all of us. I got off on the teacher issue a few weeks ago. I know this is not the forum for these kinds of things, but there are issues in each of our lives that we have a passionate, personal interest in. It is extremely difficult to stay out of them. Frankly, I did NOT mean a slam towards anyone, just a comment. I put my foot in it and I too must apologize. On the other hand, we are suppose to be adults. And that implies the maturity to self discipline ourselves. EJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis A. Troini" <paladindennisalexander@...> To: <jarcho@...> Cc: <S-trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 11:14 AM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] my bad > Thank you Tom, > This is quite gracious and gentlemanly of you. I would like to extend my > apologies to you for becoming so heated in the exchanges last week, to > Paul Yorke and the list as whole again, for subjecting them to that > exchange and to Mr. Conner for , uninvited , taking up and extending that > exchange beyond reasonable limits. Anger and passion I believe took us > both over, and this discussion simply descended into rudeness on both our > parts because of passionate personal beliefs that are clearly at odds and > not appropriate to the list. > I too was well out of line and hope we can put this behind us and > re-establish a cordial relationship and dialogue. > My Apologies and Regards. > Thank You, > Dennis Troini > > On Tue, 31 Jul 2001 14:56:04 -0400 jarcho@... writes: > > I would like to apologize to all for my ungentlemanly behavior in > > the > > heated exchanges of last week. Although it is an important point > > that > > postings on religious and political topics do not belong on this > > list, the > > rude and angry way I went about things was no way to convince anyone > > of > > anything. > > > > i would especially like to apologize to Mr. Conner, and also Mr. > > Troini and > > Paul Yorke. After reviewing the entire exchange, I was way out of > > line. > > Or should I say, way out of orbit? Houston, we had a problem! > > > > I hope that we can all reestablish cordial relations in the future. > > > > Tom Jarcho > > > > > > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14342	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 8/7/2001
Subject: Re: Fw: humor

I took the original post, changed the locomotives to F40s (only one crankshaft per unit) and sent it to a friend who is a pilot. He forwarded it to 350 other pilots. THEY LOVED IT! I and 350 pilots thanks you for posting it. Thorin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14343	From: W. Thomas Boussum	Date: 8/7/2001
Subject: Engines, motors, and generators

I have been reading the thread on engines and motors. In a diese electric locomotive, the engine is the diesel internal combustion device that provides the mechanical energy necessary to drive generator that powers the traction motors. When speaking of electrical devices a motor and generator are basically inverse devices. That is to say that a motor takes electrical energy and converts it to mechanical while a generator takes mechanical energy and converts it to electrical. Those of us who have been driving forever remember a time when a belt driven generator was used in a car to recharge the battery while driving. It took mechanical power from the engine and converted to 12 volts DC (6 volts before 1956). That is to say back when the radios were not driven by those plastic thingys that they used to replace the glass vacuum tube devices. I found out the difference between steam engine and steam locomotive back right after World War II when my Uncle John brought a steam engine he acquired while in Europe. When he wrote home and told us about it I visualized a life steam model locomotive. Imagine my disappointment when it turned out to be a stationary engine. By the way, does anyone have any ideas on powering Gilbert built PB units. I would like to create an energy hog that would make a heavy train load appear like nothing. W. Thomas Boussum [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14344	From: Robert W. Jackson	Date: 8/7/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: Fw: humor

"Marty.Thorin" wrote: > I took the original post, changed the locomotives to F40s (only one > crankshaft per unit) and sent it to a friend who is a pilot. He forwarded > it to 350 other pilots. THEY LOVED IT! > > I and 350 pilots thanks you for posting it. Ever wonder why, if flying is so safe, they call the airport a terminal? Bob Jackson

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14345	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 8/7/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1105

TURN OUT RADIUS: GILBERT lists a outside radius of 20" to out side of track tie (ref. McClintock, how to build and operate a model railroad, Gilbert track planning kit.) deduct 7/8" (half the tie length) gives a C/L (center line radius) of 19 1/4", this is equal to 102.68' which is a 30 degree curve, which is way to sharp for a real railroad. min for steam 23 deg. , road engines 18 deg. some diesel switch engines get down to 38 deg.-56 min (150' rad.) The smallest commercial switch made is a #4 = 115.3835 C/L radius. #5= 186.955' rad. Jerry 77-11644 ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14346	From: Dennis Conway	Date: 8/7/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: Fw: humor

>> Ever wonder why, if flying is so safe, they call the airport a terminal? Bob Jackson I just read a little interesting stat online somewhere about there being more folks being killed on planet earth each year by donkeys than by airplanes. I imagine that must include all the "donkeys" driving cars, SUV's, mini-vans and pick-ups, as well. <g> Dennis Conway Los Angeles

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14347	From: Bill Lane	Date: 8/7/2001
Subject: Jeff Sankus

Hi All, If anyone has a recent phone number for Jeff Sankus of north jersey please contact me. I am still looking for 2 sets of John Hall Lehigh & New England hopper decals. Thanks Bill

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14348	From: richard_snook@primus.com.au	Date: 8/7/2001
Subject: Another thought

Sorry if this is repeated..all sorts of hassles posting lately!! To Roy and assoc :-) and anyone who cares for another diatribe!!! Long story short ( well sorta)...was flicking through Model Railroad News ( good rag btw!!..shame the freebies dont come south to OZ, nice of them to send me one anyway!!)..anyhows...there are ads in this for the TAMR...( Teen Association of Model Railroaders)...it kinda occurs to me we may have all been staring right past a golden opportunity to snare newbies....thats right...heres a bunch of train mad teenagers....they are the semi-converted!! lol What say The NASG helps out a lil with some mentorship......maybe create a list of sociable folk who might have time to take a young-un under their wings...kinda like a big-bruther-buddy thing.....lets take them by the hand and take them to our "S" land!! lol :-) Also they are always after something for their conventions.....maybe someone can set up a layout....they are after prizes...now dont fight Ron , Bill , Don and all...am sure there are comps galore for prizes for all of you to donate to....Maybe NASG could promote a prize for best "S" model at the convention...something for them to aspire to....ppl love to compete...especially teenagers!! :-) Honestly heres a chance...on a plate..to be the pied piper of modeling....why not show them first hand ..there are other choices besides HO and N.....there will always be a maverick who'll jump at the chance to be differrent....lets encourage it These are the very future of modeling...first in best dressed!!! well just an idea :-) ( another one!!) cheers >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14349	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 8/7/2001
Subject: ebay category

I have just been advised that there is a great posibility that after this weekend you will have to go to the new category"trains...scales...S..American Flyer" or "Other Manufacturers " to find S trains on ebay. Keith _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14350	From: Bill Lane	Date: 8/7/2001
Subject: American Models Budd cars

Hi All, I have just finished body mounting Kadee # 802 couplers to a new American Models Budd coach. I had to mill .20 brass square stock to .165 on one side. I can't figure out why I had to use such a large shim for a coupler pad. I tapped the first hole 1/2 way through with a 0-80 and the other half with a 2-56. This was mounted using existing the hole in the floor with a short 2-56 screw. Another 2-56 hole was drilled and tapped right next to it. A mere 4 1/2 hours later, it rolled out of the Deptford & Western shops ready to serve among the Great Tuscan Fleet. Be careful, because the interior and shell only fit together on the floor one way. Has anyone else done this yet? Do you have a better way? Thanks Bill

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14351	From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com	Date: 8/7/2001
Subject: 1102,1103,1104?

Greetings, Unlike Allen Eisenhauer, I received digests 1101 and 1105, but nothing between. Is it me? Or is it Yahoo? If anyone has them please send them. Thanks! Bill Trefts ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14352	From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com	Date: 8/7/2001
Subject: Zephyr? Deposit?

Friends, Is the Zephyr project of Ron Bashista the same as the /Sunset Models Zephyr project, or am I missing something. I had placed an order with Sunset, but to the best of my knowledge, was never asked to place a deposit. Boy, I sure would like to see a Zephyr! Thanks, Bill Trefts ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14353	From: richard_snook@primus.com.au	Date: 8/7/2001
Subject: is it me??

is it me or are the lists doing some weird things lately...many messages die a cyber death.. Some of you probably think thats a good thing..lol :-) but its annoying anyone else?? >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14354	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 8/7/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: Fw: humor

Robert W. Jackson wrote: >Ever wonder why, if flying is so safe, they call the airport a >terminal? Not only that, but train engineers get into locomotives every day. But would anybody want to get into a loco-plane? (Apologies to Joe Martin.) Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14355	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 8/8/2001
Subject: Re: Zephyr? Deposit?

What Zepher Project? Tom D. ----- Original Message ----- From: <wmhtreftsv@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 11:38 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Zephyr? Deposit? > Friends, > > Is the Zephyr project of Ron Bashista the same as the /Sunset Models > Zephyr project, or am I missing something. I had placed an order with > Sunset, but to the best of my knowledge, was never asked to place a > deposit. Boy, I sure would like to see a Zephyr! > > Thanks, > > Bill Trefts > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14356	From: Michael Greene	Date: 8/8/2001
Subject: Re: Zephyr? Deposit?

At 10:38 PM 8/7/2001 -0500, wmhtreftsv@... wrote: >Friends, > >Is the Zephyr project of Ron Bashista the same as the /Sunset Models >Zephyr project, or am I missing something. I had placed an order with >Sunset, but to the best of my knowledge, was never asked to place a >deposit. Boy, I sure would like to see a Zephyr! > >Thanks, > >Bill Trefts Bill, I think you have confused two projects: 1) Quite some time ago (about 2 years ago) Sunset/3rd Rail proposed to do a brass quality (plated actually as I recall) model of the Flying Yankee. This is a model they already had in O and they were testing the market in S I believe. This proposal resulted in insufficient orders (at one count I saw an email from them that said they had 99 but were looking for 200), and they extended the proposal to also do a Zephyr (Pioneer) as well. But they still ended up with insufficient reservations. And it died. 2) More recently, American Models (Ron Bashista) responded to interest in the "scale" segment of the S community in the availability of scale length Budd cars. They also put a proposal on the table, but with insufficient reservations at the time to make it a go. I hope we will eventually see both the Flying Yankee and scale length Budd cars in S. Now that S has a BL2 (thanks Billy!) I'm sure we will eventually get a Flying Yankee from one of the manufacturers, since relatively speaking the interest in that is I believe even higher. And I feel that scale length Budd cars will come, it's only a matter of time... Hope this helps Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14357	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 8/8/2001
Subject: Re: Zephyr? Deposit?

Bill Trefts wrote: >Is the Zephyr project of Ron Bashista the same as the /Sunset Models >Zephyr project, or am I missing something. I had placed an order with >Sunset, but to the best of my knowledge, was never asked to place a >deposit. Boy, I sure would like to see a Zephyr! Bill: Two Zephyr projects shelved . . . kinda sucks, doesn't it? The Sunset project was a plan to build, in brass, a model of the articulated unit Zephyr. This was one of the original trains that bore the name and is very similar to the Flying Yankee, so that they would also have been able, with a few modifications, to produce all the variations of the original streamliners. It was to be offered in scale and High Rail to maximize sales. For a brass model, it would have been very competitive with plastic/die-cast stuff, coming in at around 7 or 8 hundred for the train. Sunset couldn't get up enough interest, or so they felt, so they dropped it, and S with it apparently. It is very tough for manufacturers to move into a new gauge. It's like fish switching ponds. You gotta entice 'em, catch 'em and them lift them bodily and drop them into the new environment. Then they'll discover that they're not going to die. American Models, under Ron Bashista's guidance, was planning a later Zephyr made up of the Budd cars he is now building, but in full scale length. Presumably, the diesels would have been available separately. Ron offers F-7s and now E-8s in the Burlington Silver scheme. The train was planned as an all-dome train (even the observation car) and would also be available in scale and High-Rail. This project reached an impasse when Ron only received 80 out of his required 100 deposits. He did not trust that the market would sustain the cost of tooling the longer cars and the complexities of the Vista-Domes. He has not written it off altogether, and told me, at the NASG convention, that he would consider it again if he can find the support amongst S-gaugers for the project. The ball is in our court, I guess. Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14358	From: Scott Brown	Date: 8/8/2001
Subject: TAMR

Richard wrote about recruiting younger members from TAMR. It reminded me that Steamtown was having their annual RailCamp during the NASG convention. Not sure if that was TAMR or not, but I was wondering if either of the clubs that had their layouts in the museum got a chance to talk with those kids ? They were the ones wearing the bright blue ball caps. I watched them get to couple cars out in the yard at Steamtown. They were using the NPR geep if any of you saw that. Didn't even dawn on me that we should invite them over to the convention. What was I (not) thinking about ? Scott Brown Atlantic Coast S Gaugers Washington & Old Dominion Division

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14359	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 8/8/2001
Subject: Re: TAMR

The RAILCAMPers you saw were in a program run by the National Park Service and the National Railway Historical Society. Prox four yrs old and very well received by campers and everyone else involved. Know a first yr camper and she came away very pleased and impressed, which might be tough for a girl whose family heritage is PRR, READING, PENN CENTRAL, CONRAIL, AMTRAK. OOPS, forgot to mention her mother has been Chair of the joint FP7 Committee from Lancaster, PA and Phil- adelphia, PA NRHS Chapters for over 15 yrs. They have saved and rebuilt Reading FP-7's 902 and 903 to running order and they do run them, a trip is planned from 30th St Station in Philly to Strasburg Station in Strasburg, on Sept 8. Tix available. This trip is the FIRST ever scheduled passenger train between those two points. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14360	From: IronHorse	Date: 8/8/2001
Subject: Flying Yankee

The real "Flying Yankee" is in NH being completely restored. When it makes its maiden run on the Mountain Division in NH there will be thousands of people to witness the event. I am positive enough excitement will be generated so that many people, in attendance, would by a working model of this train based on impulse. Many wealthy people and politicians will be there to ride the train. Will the Makers of "S" miss out on this opportunity to make a quick sale at this event. This desire to buy the model , generated by this energy, will be a one time thing. Don't miss the boat on this. All kinds of Flying Yankee items will sell very good at this event. Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14361	From: Michael Greene	Date: 8/8/2001
Subject: Christmas comes early to Maine Junction

Yesterday Christmas came early to the Maine Junction layout. Arriving home last night, I found a yet another box of fine S Helper Service products... Imagine our surprise when we opened the box to discover that a Northern Pacific double sheathed boxcar (road number 200001) had arrived on the Maine Junction. Imagine our greater surprise when we open the boxcar to discover one of Santa's elves asleep next to a Christmas package. Obviously the folks at the North Pole are in high gear getting ready for the upcoming Christmas season. Perhaps this elf had been packing boxcars with Christmas packages all day, and after loading this package, decided to sit down and rest for a bit. He obviously fell asleep, but imagine his surprise when he wakes to discover that not only did he fall asleep, but while he slept the car was shipped out with him in it! He has graciously agreed to stick around and help the Maine Central and other area railroads get their Christmas trains ready for the upcoming season. I'm quite sure it he doesn't mind the more relaxed environment in Maine. (It also probably helped that we offered a cabin (with hammock for more naps), shorts & t-shirts, fishingboat, Maine guide, and three weeks of bass fishing at some of the best, most secret fishing spots in Northern Maine before starting work!) Also arriving on the Maine Junction was the second paint scheme of the Maine Central Extended Vision caboose (MEC #645). (A sample of this was seen in Scranton at the S Helper Service booth.) Now the MEC has two cabooses ready and available to work behind the F-3's. With the recent release of the S Helper Service F-3s in Maine Central colors, this year's touring Maine Junction Christmas train will be lent by our friends on the Maine Central, and led by Maine Central F-3 A/B #671 (appropriately decorated). Look for more information & pictures of this year's Christmas Train and its planned schedule in the near future. Regards (and thanks to our friends at S Helper Service), Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14362	From: Robert W. Jackson	Date: 8/8/2001
Subject: AF Hoppper Car Details

> I have one dozen Liberty Models kits for adding the brake detail to AF > hopper cars. These have never been opened. They include white metal > castings for air tank, brake cylinder etc., and brass stampings for the > levers and brake wheel. Any one interested can have them for a buck a > piece or ten bucks for the lot, plus cost of mailing. Please contact me > off list if interested. > Bob Jackson

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14363	From: roy inman	Date: 8/8/2001
Subject: C&A logo

Hi to all on lists: Does anyone know the whereabouts of a Chicago & Alton logo? Anything of most any size will do. Oddball decals no got. Any suggestions appreciated. Roy Inman

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14364	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 8/8/2001
Subject: Re: Zephyr? Deposit?

In case it wzsn't clear below, Sunset proposed the streamliner Zephyr whereas AM was looking into the California Zephyr full length psddenger cars. Two different projects. Michael Greene wrote: > > At 10:38 PM 8/7/2001 -0500, wmhtreftsv@... wrote: > >Friends, > > > >Is the Zephyr project of Ron Bashista the same as the /Sunset Models > >Zephyr project, or am I missing something. I had placed an order with > >Sunset, but to the best of my knowledge, was never asked to place a > >deposit. Boy, I sure would like to see a Zephyr! > > > >Thanks, > > > >Bill Trefts > > Bill, > > I think you have confused two projects: > > 1) Quite some time ago (about 2 years ago) Sunset/3rd Rail proposed to do a > brass quality (plated actually as I recall) model of the Flying Yankee. > This is a model they already had in O and they were testing the market in S > I believe. This proposal resulted in insufficient orders (at one count I > saw an email from them that said they had 99 but were looking for 200), and > they extended the proposal to also do a Zephyr (Pioneer) as well. But they > still ended up with insufficient reservations. And it died. > > 2) More recently, American Models (Ron Bashista) responded to interest in > the "scale" segment of the S community in the availability of scale length > Budd cars. They also put a proposal on the table, but with insufficient > reservations at the time to make it a go. > > I hope we will eventually see both the Flying Yankee and scale length Budd > cars in S. Now that S has a BL2 (thanks Billy!) I'm sure we will eventually > get a Flying Yankee from one of the manufacturers, since relatively > speaking the interest in that is I believe even higher. And I feel that > scale length Budd cars will come, it's only a matter of time... > > Hope this helps > Michael > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14365	From: Robichaud, Thomas Jr (Thomas)	Date: 8/8/2001
Subject: Re: Zephyr? Deposit?

You who may be interested in taking on a Flying Yankee project in S-gauge. Anyone doing this sign me up for one. And in talking to a number of people in the New England area, I know there is a lot more S-gaugers interested. Tom -----Original Message----- From: Chuck Smith [mailto:cesmith@...] Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 3:14 PM To: Michael Greene Cc: wmhtreftsv@...; S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Zephyr? Deposit? In case it wzsn't clear below, Sunset proposed the streamliner Zephyr whereas AM was looking into the California Zephyr full length psddenger cars. Two different projects. Michael Greene wrote: > > At 10:38 PM 8/7/2001 -0500, wmhtreftsv@... wrote: > >Friends, > > > >Is the Zephyr project of Ron Bashista the same as the /Sunset Models > >Zephyr project, or am I missing something. I had placed an order with > >Sunset, but to the best of my knowledge, was never asked to place a > >deposit. Boy, I sure would like to see a Zephyr! > > > >Thanks, > > > >Bill Trefts > > Bill, > > I think you have confused two projects: > > 1) Quite some time ago (about 2 years ago) Sunset/3rd Rail proposed to do a > brass quality (plated actually as I recall) model of the Flying Yankee. > This is a model they already had in O and they were testing the market in S > I believe. This proposal resulted in insufficient orders (at one count I > saw an email from them that said they had 99 but were looking for 200), and > they extended the proposal to also do a Zephyr (Pioneer) as well. But they > still ended up with insufficient reservations. And it died. > > 2) More recently, American Models (Ron Bashista) responded to interest in > the "scale" segment of the S community in the availability of scale length > Budd cars. They also put a proposal on the table, but with insufficient > reservations at the time to make it a go. > > I hope we will eventually see both the Flying Yankee and scale length Budd > cars in S. Now that S has a BL2 (thanks Billy!) I'm sure we will eventually > get a Flying Yankee from one of the manufacturers, since relatively > speaking the interest in that is I believe even higher. And I feel that > scale length Budd cars will come, it's only a matter of time... > > Hope this helps > Michael > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14366	From: Stan S.	Date: 8/8/2001
Subject: Re: Zephyr? Deposit?

> This project reached an impasse when Ron only received > 80 out of his required 100 deposits. He did not trust that the market would > sustain the cost of tooling the longer cars and the complexities of the > Vista-Domes. He has not written it off altogether, and told me, at the NASG > convention, that he would consider it again if he can find the support > amongst S-gaugers for the project. The ball is in our court, I guess. > I don't know about anyone else, but while I'd buy Budd cars, I have absolutely no use for dome cars. I'd have to believe that proposing a complete train of domes is one reason this project didn't get a larger number of reservations. Stan Stokrocki

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14367	From: TED R LARSON	Date: 8/8/2001
Subject: American Muscle

A while back, Ken Z commented on finding an American Muscle (replacement for Mint Editions) '61 Chev at Target. I finally got around to stopping by. Not only did they have that, but they had '64 Ford Fairlane, '65 Chevelle, and '65 GTO. Ted Larson Never argue with an idiot: People watching can't tell which is which.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14368	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 8/8/2001
Subject: Re: Zephyr? Deposit?

Bill Trefts wrote: Is the Zephyr project of Ron Bashista the same as the /Sunset Models Zephyr project, or am I missing something. I had placed an order with Sunset, but to the best of my knowledge, was never asked to place a deposit. Boy, I sure would like to see a Zephyr! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Hello Bill, No, they were two different projects. Sunset Models (aka Third Rail) proposed a Pioneer Zephyr articulated train set in brass. Ron's project was for a full length, ten car (or two five car sets) California Zephyr in plastic, similar in construction to his current Budd car sets. Both projects were shelved due to lack of orders, or commitment, if you will. If I remember correctly, Sunset wanted 300 firm commitments and received about 90, whereas Ron wanted 100 deposits of one hundred dollars each, and received 80. Rich Gajnak [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14369	From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi	Date: 8/8/2001
Subject: Spirals

Hi all: Has anyone had experience with spirals, especially ones that start reasonably rectangular and then get a little tighter as they get higher? Is there a problem in doing this with some tangential forces or something? I am considering building one to go up about 3-4 feet from the 38" table height to put some track at around 60 inches. I would build a mountain on one end of the layout and I would rather have the track remain mainly in the mountain, but show in a few places so that it appeared to follow the contour of the mountain. Probably I don't have enough room and should go to Sn3 or something else, but I would like to keep it S. Tx for any info or suggestions. Rance

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14370	From: roy inman	Date: 8/8/2001
Subject: C&A logo

Many thanks to those who gave excellent suggestions on where to find a Chicago & Alton logo. I now have an image of that logo that will work. Roy Inman

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14371	From: Rick Evans	Date: 8/8/2001
Subject: Some fun vehicles for your layout.....

Have ya seen the "MUSCLE MACHINES" cars?? They are 1:64th, but are more "cartoon" in appearance. Large, very large engines poppin' outta the hood! Huge tires, and they are actually rubber, well, even the JL's have "sorta real" rubber tires,...they are rubber like! These Hot Rods would be more for fun on your layout. I have seen these in the past, but the cars didn't strike me,...Mustangs, GTO's, etc....however, tonight in Target, I found a '41 Willys Coupe, a '53 Chevy P-UP and a '56 Ford P-UP. Couldn't find the '57 Chevy or the '50 Ford Woody. Soooo,...of course, I bought a few! Just about three bucks each. If ya like the ol' hot rods with big ol' motors,...check these out. Also saw 1:64 G.I. Joe army vehicles, single or a five pack. Rick. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14372	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 8/9/2001
Subject: Re: Zephyr? Deposit?

Stan Stokrocki said >I don't know about anyone else, but while I'd buy Budd cars, I have >absolutely no use for dome cars. I'd have to believe that proposing >a complete train of domes is one reason this project didn't get a >larger number of reservations. _________________________________________________________________ Well, I agree, Stan. You don't know about anyone else. The California Zephyr was an all dome train. Had you purchased a ticket to ride it, you could have explained to the conductor that you "have absolutely no use for dome cars." I think he might have suggested a transfer to another line west. Buy the CZ, get the CZ domes. People who want a CZ don't want a dome-less CZ. It wouldn't be true to prototype. Even American Flyer's Zephyr is all domes. You may find this totally impossible to believe, given your domic outlook, but some people actually like dome cars. Me, for instance. I didn't put up a deposit because I didn't have the greenbacks at the time (you know, those pocket sized pieces of paper with the Capitol dome on the back.) Two to go, CZ

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14373	From: Stan S.	Date: 8/9/2001
Subject: Re: Zephyr? Deposit?

________________________________________________________________ > Well, I agree, Stan. You don't know about anyone else. > > The California Zephyr was an all dome train... People who want a CZ > don't want a dome-less CZ. It wouldn't be true to prototype. Duh. No kidding? This project did not result from a volume of requests to make a Zephyr. It resulted from various people asking for scale-length Budd cars. So what will maximize sales here? A selection of cars that would allow people to approximate a number of trains which ran all over the country, or a consist of cars which is pretty much representative of one specific train? We have a pretty good idea of how many people want to buy Zephyr cars. This is only a percentage of the total number of modelers who might want to buy Budd cars. Since the CZ was the only choice offered, we really don't know what that percentage might be. The math seems obvious if I use both hands and only take the sock off of one foot, but again, that's just me talking. Stan Stokrocki

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14374	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 8/9/2001
Subject: Re: Zephyr? Deposit?

Stan Stokrocki wrote: So what will maximize sales here? A selection of cars that would allow people to approximate a number of trains which ran all over the country, or a consist of cars which is pretty much representative of one specific train? ------------------------------------------------------------------- I believe that's how Kato's marketing their N Scale Budd's. Four car sets (A, B and sometimes C sets) with cars to approximate the intended train. Of course, by being S Scalers, it's got to be absolutely correct for XYZ Railroad as it was on June 24th, 1954 at 3:17 in the afternoon, or we're not interested.... Say, isn't that window supposed to be one and a half inches to the left??? :-) Be seeing you... Rich G. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14375	From: richard_snook@primus.com.au	Date: 8/9/2001
Subject: Re: Zephyr? Deposit? and the wheel!!

ya know its kinda funny how we in S try to reinvent the Wheel all the time....there is no need....Its ROUND !! lol by this..I refer to a plethora of history of other manufacturers in those other scales to learn from. What did they try wha worked what failed... OK iknow we might be a slightly different subset of the overall equation ..BUT...two arms..two legs...or sounds like a duck etc..... Athearn have it worked out..Walthers have it worked out..Bachmann have it worked out..Atlas does to..Micro trains etc..no need to reach for the head ache powders...we can ride on their coat-tails...and IMPROVE it by selecting initially the better successes and emulate them...It is quite likely that some one who is switching across from Ho to S and liked the CZ Zephyr ...didnt have an exact train in HO either!!..unless he bought nickel plated brass!! Okie lets do the ol Atheran routine over at Am-Mod say...maybe Ron can gear up for a Dome roof on an existing car...sure not perfect...but itll sell..I betcha!...and those amongst us who want a 'real' train..well a-kitbash-we-a-go!!...thats the commercial route... Still itd be great to be able to buy say a box-pack of raw undecs...just chuck all the bits in Ron...dont assemble...dont paint...just like the big Bachmann G kits..cheaper, but not by any means nasty!!...well just an idea!! Still got me danged why No one has chosen a Harriman Consolidation ...I mean they even had them in the East too!!..What were ya thinking Don!! .*VBG*...lol back to the medication cheers >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14376	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 8/9/2001
Subject: Convention Pictures - Trading Floor part1

Sorry, but I have been busy with the non S-Trains parts of my life. here is a reward for your patience. http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/nasg01/conv1_floor.html just the tip of the iceburg.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14377	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 8/10/2001
Subject: Re: Zephyr? Deposit?

Stan Stocrocki said: "Duh." Then he said: "So what will maximize sales here? A selection of cars that would allow people to approximate a number of trains which ran all over the country, or a consist of cars which is pretty much representative of one specific train?" Well Stan, here's a "Duh" for you. I always assumed, as did most people, that a spin off of the CZ project would be full length Budd cars in various road names, with and without domes. Once they are actually producing full length cars, how tough is it to not cut in the dome and swap the window cutouts around and offer all the variations of Budd fluted side cars that there were prototypes to support? The CZ was just the opening project, and everyone knew that. That 80 people sent a deposit meant that there were a lot more who would buy it once it was produced. The kind of person who sends advance money on a project is a far rarer bird than the guy who will buy what already exists. On the other hand, I agree that it might have been simpler to offer duplication of the short cars in scale length. It would have been a giant inventory headache for Ron B. and would have probably been a tremendous resource drain, however. He was attempting to control this by offering one special train in full length. Perhaps it should have been the "Empire State Express." Perhaps, since it had more scale appeal than high-rail, it should have been a plain silver set that scalers could letter and weather. Whether you like domes or not, the 10 car, full length, all dome set, behind a pair of E-8's, would have been magnificent. Two to doh, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14378	From: Novak, William	Date: 8/10/2001
Subject: There's nothing like a dome

Dome's are one of the best things to happen to passenger railroading. Some of my best memories of train rides are in the domes: Left Washington headed south on the Auto Train one sultry, rainy summer evening in the early 90s. Had a spectacular lightening show entertain us while we enjoyed a late dinner in the full-length dome diner that provided a 180 degree overhead view! (A show that beat IMAX.) My young son organizing a pick-up poker game in the beautifully refurbished Budd dome on the VIA Chaulier on our way to Gaspe. Watching the passing line side signals change from the old dome on the Capitol Limited as we headed to Chicago. Its interesting to note how Gilbert's first dome (the aluminum 662 version) had the window arrangement and sizes right. He had the prototypical smaller, lower windows under the dome to reflect the lowering of the floor in that area due to the low ceiling needed to accommodate the floor in the dome above. He was also correct in not showing silhouetted people seated in that area since it was primarily a passageway and/or snack bar. In the later plastic versions of the dome car the smaller and lower windows were eliminated because AF simply used a coach body with a hole placed in the roof for the dome. Bill Novak Washington & Old Dominion Division Atlantic Coast S Gaugers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14379	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/10/2001
Subject: Re: There's nothing like a dome

Hiall, Bill pointed out the prototypical windows in the aluminum dome car, but that wasn't the only neat feature--the dome isn't centered also, another prototypical feature. The plastic domes used a seperate roof mold, or at least an insert, as the dome isn't just put over a hole in the roof, the roof ribbing is also eliminated in the dome mounting area. I've always thought that some form of "interior" for the domes would be a real neat addtion, maybe even a dome that had painted window frames and ribs! It's done in that other scale, why not S?? Speaking of domes, I also thought the addition of an observation dome would have made the L/AF CZ set "right". S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14380	From: Novak, William	Date: 8/10/2001
Subject: Domes

David is right about the off-set dome of the AF 662 aluminum dome car reflecting the prototype. I just wish someone would make a dome-observation car --something that was seen on many of the RRs. (I think the VIA Ocean between Montreal and Halifax uses one.) Is anyone aware if they were ever produced in S? Bill Novak

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14381	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 8/10/2001
Subject: eBay has a new SCALES catagory S !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ok, after a lot of complaining and proding, eBay has created a separate catagory for S scale!! As of this minute, there are no postings. I suggest we get to the business of using it! :-)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14382	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 8/10/2001
Subject: TRAIN WRECKS

Tonight at 10:00 on the History Channel...."Train Wrecks" If you watch the History Channel you already know they have a good amtount of train history ,that they air....MIke S. PS Has anyone tried the #4 smoke fluid I sent as yet??Your input is very helpful

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14383	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 8/10/2001
Subject: Re: Zephyr? Deposit? and the wheel!!

Richard Snook wrote: Still got me danged why No one has chosen a Harriman Consolidation ...I mean they even had them in the East too!!..What were ya thinking Don!! .*VBG*...lol ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Probably because of the Southwind Harriman 2-8-0's of a few years ago. They seem to show up periodically at meets. I'll admit that when SHS "sneaked" a steam locomotive onto the cover of the 2001 catalog, I was expecting a 2-8-0 something along the lines of what Bachmann's done in HO. Those 2-8-0's seem to be based closely on an IC locomotive, and also seem close to the ex-NYC 2-8-0's that the Santa Fe acquired when they bought up the Orient. And, most of the roadnames offered by Bachmann seem to "fit" as it were, nicely to the locomotive. But, that's one of the problems with manufacturing model steam locomotives, with the exception of the USRA series, most prototype steam loco's were very specific for the individual roads. Although it is a nice looking chooch, I'm a little concerned that the 2-8-0 chosen by SHS may be a bit too specific for decorating for roads other than Baltimore and Ohio. I guess we'll have to wait and see. Personally, I'd like to see some "Russian" Decapods in S. I've always liked them since I saw a PFM(HO) ad on the back of RMC many, many moons ago. About twenty-seven US roads had them. On big road, they were small loco's, and on small roads, they were big power. Be seeing you... Rich G. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14384	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 8/10/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, August 12, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14385	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 8/10/2001
Subject: SCALE? GAUGE?

Hi Guys, I've run across of a lot of different size cars and trucks claiming to be 1/64 Mattels !/64 is different than the ones that come from China ( I know they mostly all come from China) Then there is AHL....They all claim to be 1/64 but at times don't look like they are....Then there are the 3/16 trucks that "L" made they are the same size truck the 3/16 and the 027 are the same truck ...whats up there?? A confused Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14386	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 8/10/2001
Subject: More Scranton!!

I have now uploaded 3 pages (I got couple more to do, look for model comp, more trading floor, toy museum, maybe steam town then there is video, don't know about that yet.) Yesterday ... Scranton 2001 NASG Convention (Pictures from the main trading floor) http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/nasg01/conv1_floor.html Tonight ... Strassburg RR / PRR Museum (12 inches equal one foot) http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/prr_museum/prr.html Cuyahoga Valley S Gaugers Modular layout on Main Trading Floor (complete with underside pictures) http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/cuy/cuy.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14387	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 8/10/2001
Subject: Re: SCALE? GAUGE?

A confused Mike S. wrote: >I've run across of a lot of different size cars and trucks >claiming to be 1/64 Mattels !/64 is different than the ones that >come from China ( I know they mostly all come from China) Mattel seems to claim "1/64" as a general category for their Hotwheels $1 blue card line of vehicles, but they're pretty loose with that spec. Besides having some very fanciful designs, Mattel seems to "reverse-Lionelize" Hotwheels proportions even with prototypical designs. Their somewhat pricey ($8+ each) line of "Cool Collectibles" are much more accurate proportionally, but I sometimes wonder about the scale of some of them as well. Some are obviously NOT 1/64, some are durned close. Matchbox (also by Mattel) molds the scale of each piece onto the chassis. It's usually readable through the card blister, which is nice. Mattel, Winner's Circle, and some others do make some really snazzy 1/64 big-rigs in the $8-$12 range, but they're always carrying NASCAR livery of some kind. Some stripping and repainting could turn one into a great moving van, though. >Then there is AHL....They all claim to be 1/64 but at times don't >look like they are.... Some of the more modern AHL trucks, like the Ford F5 cab, look a little small to me too, but I can't be sure. The old trucks were narrower than what I'm used to seeing bear down on me in my rear-view mirror nowadays. I think AHL got them pretty close, although they did put the front axle of the early Mack non-COE too far back. (It should be in front of the radiator, not underneath the engine.) Still, those 22' trailers do have a certain charm, don't they? And two of them fit so nicely on a Flyer flat! >Then there are the 3/16 trucks that "L" made they are the same size >truck the 3/16 and the 027 are the same truck ...whats up there?? Apparently, Lionel took a knock-off of a Shinsei 1/64 Kenworth cab, simplified the casting, and upgraded the wheels and tires. The trailer vans they use have details similar to those of 40 foot 1/64 trailers I've seen by Shinsei and Roadchamps, but with a removable chassis. Lionel's are slightly longer (not a problem), but their width has been stretched to well over 9 scale feet, which is much more than the 8'6" prototypical maximum. It might not sound like much, but it's obvious to me when I put a Lionel trailer near a true 1/64 trailer that something's wrong. "Lionelization" rears its ugly head. Since Lionel usually isn't concerned with the subtleties of scale proportion, it's to be expected, of course. These days, when I want a 1/64 scale truck I look to ERTL or the occasional "Pic-'n-Save Special" find. If I had more money, I'd go with Winross and PEM. If trailers are all I need, SHS and AM make great products. They also weigh much less than diecast metal. There y'go, Mike. Any less confused? I don't think I am. :^) Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14388	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 8/11/2001
Subject: Scranton Stills - Final Batch

I just uploaded a couple more pages of Scranton Pictures. I think this takes care of all the stills.http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/nasg01/main_nasg2001.html Main Index page to My Convention Photos orNASG ConventionPhotos CuyahogaValley Layout in Main Trading room ToyMuseum StrassburgRR & Penn RR Museum MainTrading Floor (part1) MainTrading Floor (p2) & Steamtown Layouts Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com Photography - Computers - Trains --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14389	From: Timboy@att.net	Date: 8/11/2001
Subject: Train show in Connecticut

I'm just curious. Is anyone else going to the Gilbert factory tour aand train show next week-end?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14390	From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi	Date: 8/12/2001
Subject: Switch Installation

Hi All: Has anyone put code 125 BK closed-frog switches on ties on cork roadbed? Other alternatives? (Such as spike the turnouts to milled roadbed for switches.) Any cork turnout roadbed sold for under s-gauge turnouts? (I know that Heimburger sells s-gauge cork roadbed). Also, how well does the 1/2 HO-1/2 O cork roadbed work??? Tx for info. Rance

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14391	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 8/12/2001
Subject: Re: Train show in Connecticut

Hi Tim Boy, 5 members of our North Penn S Gaugers will be there. Joe, Jerry, Glenn, Phil & Linda. There are 70 people registered but they can take up to 90. Glenn Timboy@... wrote: I'm just curious. Is anyone else going to the Gilbert factory tour aand train show next week-end?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14392	From: Michael Greene	Date: 8/12/2001
Subject: Re: Train show in Connecticut

At 02:24 AM 8/12/2001 +0000, Timboy@... wrote: >I'm just curious. Is anyone else going to the Gilbert factory tour >aand train show next week-end? There are a number of members of the Bristol S Gaugers who will be attending the train show. We're taking our modular layout down and will be operating it. I don't know the exact number, but be sure to stop by. I don't know if anyone is going on the Gilbert Tour... Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14393	From: semaphoresam@yahoo.com	Date: 8/12/2001
Subject: GILBERT TOUR IN NEW HAVEN

Hello Boys! Can someone give me details of the event in New Haven next weekend? I would like to come out of my shed and attend. Thanks Sam

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14394	From: Stan S.	Date: 8/12/2001
Subject: Re: Zephyr? Deposit?

> Whether you like domes or not... Who said that? I said that they aren't exactly useful to anyone who wants to model what runs in the Northeast. > the 10 car, full length, all dome set, behind > a pair of E-8's, would have been magnificent. > No kidding, again. It'd look great.. assuming there's enough support in the marketplace to make it happen. Once again, I'm only expressing my opinion; others may vary. This is supposed to be a hobby- relax. Stan

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14395	From: afstrains@aol.com	Date: 8/12/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1110

In a message dated 8/12/01 10:01:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time, S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes: > Can someone give me details of the event in New Haven next weekend? I > would like to come out of my shed and attend. Thanks Sam > > For those of you interested in the train show next weekend you can visit > the website <A HREF="www.AFSTrains.com">www.AFSTrains.com</A> for both registration of the factory tour and > events, information about the show and directions, etc., or you can call > John or Robin Vanacore 203-239-1346. Hope to see ALL of you there. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14396	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 8/12/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Switch Installation

Our club has used homosote roadbed for closing frog code 148 BK switches with no problems. They must be spiked in place and I don't trust merely spiking into the ties to hold the switches. Cork is OK for flex trackbut not for spiked switches. You also need to mount a piece of wood in the roadbed for the screw that the moveable frog pivots on to close. If I misunderstood and you're using fixed frogs I still think homosote is better. Cork is fine for Gargraves or preassembled AM code 148 switches. You split the outer pieces to follow the routes and fill in the center. Rance and Bente Velapoldi wrote: > > Hi All: > Has anyone put code 125 BK closed-frog switches on ties on cork roadbed? > Other alternatives? (Such as spike the turnouts to milled roadbed for > switches.) Any cork turnout roadbed sold for under s-gauge turnouts? (I > know that Heimburger sells s-gauge cork roadbed). Also, how well does > the 1/2 HO-1/2 O cork roadbed work??? Tx for info. > Rance > > The topic is S Scale please keep your messages 'on-topic'. > To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14397	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 8/12/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, August 12, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14398	From: IronHorse	Date: 8/13/2001
Subject: Re: Zephyr? Deposit?

I live in New England. Have all my life. There are many guys in this neck of the woods that would like dome cars. Even though I am in NH I would be interested in a buddliner "Stan S." wrote: > > Whether you like domes or not... > Who said that? I said that they aren't exactly useful to anyone > who wants to model what runs in the Northeast.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14399	From: davedesian@clarkus.com	Date: 8/13/2001
Subject: Re: Sprials

There is a lot to the geometrey of building a Sprial. A side note: The correct term would be a Helix. A Helix is a 3D term and a sprial is a 2D term. This of course should not be confussed with a Sprial Staircase which is a 3D shape with a 2D term. Whenever a train goes around a curve or up a grade, the train will need added power due to increase resistance. In the case of a Helix, the train is experiencing both cases at the same time. There are two very important demenisons that need consideration. They are the diameter/radis of the centerline of the track and the total clearance between the raod bed as the loops pass over each other. To take the above one more step. The two demensions will affect the grade of the Helix. For example: If the the total rise in one loop is 4.00 inches and the length of the centerline of the track is 15 feet (180 inches), the grade would be 4"/180" * 100 = 2.2%. Be carefull to get all excited about a 2.2% grade. This grade is not the same as the grade of a straight up section of track. Always keep in mind that a Helix is a constance up curve grade. I made a double Helix. For a 12% added wood, I added an inside Helix to my outside track. I use the outside track for up travel and the inside track for down travel. My Helix is made with 1/2 plywood, threaded rod for fine tuning adjustments and I used American Models Flex Track for the Helix. It had a very low profile, which is good. My layout is comprised of AF track and swiches. When I did to marry into the American Models track, I solded the track together to make the transistion. It works like a charm. I had planned to hid the Helix inside a mountin with access from the inside. Everyone complained that they could not see the trains climing the Helix. So I change the plan and now you can watch it climb 18 inches in five turns. If you would like more detail information, you can call me at 301-272 8384 w est or email: davedesian@... I would be happy to share my "Lessons Learned". David Avedesian Baltimore Area American Flyer Club Rockville, MD S-Trains@yahoogroups.com on 08/10/2001 02:15:01 AM Please respond to S-Trains@yahoogroups.com To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com cc: Subject: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1107 S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ There are 22 messages in this issue. Topics in this digest: 1. Re: Zephyr? Deposit? From: Thomas@... 2. Re: Zephyr? Deposit? From: Michael Greene <mgreene@...> 3. Re: Zephyr? Deposit? From: Chris Zizzo <busyboy@...> 4. Re:TAMR From: Scott Brown <sbrown56@...> 5. Re: Re:TAMR From: WJJIM@... 6. Flying Yankee From: IronHorse <cofa@...> 7. Christmas comes early to Maine Junction From: Michael Greene <mgreene@...> 8. AF Hoppper Car Details From: "Robert W. Jackson" <rwjackson@...> 9. C&A logo From: roy inman <rinphoto@...> 10. Re: Zephyr? Deposit? From: Chuck Smith <cesmith@...> 11. RE: Zephyr? Deposit? From: "Robichaud, Thomas Jr (Thomas)" <trobicha@...> 12. Re: Re: Zephyr? Deposit? From: "Stan S." <sscale@...> 13. American Muscle From: TED R LARSON <mhrreast@...> 14. Re: Zephyr? Deposit? From: " Rich Gajnak" <rgajnak@...> 15. Spirals From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi <velapoldi@...> 16. C&A logo From: roy inman <rinphoto@...> 17. Some fun vehicles for your layout..... From: "Rick Evans" <comic@...> 18. Re: Zephyr? Deposit? From: Chris Zizzo <busyboy@...> 19. Re: Re: Zephyr? Deposit? From: "Stan S." <sscale@...> 20. Re: Re: Zephyr? Deposit? From: " Rich Gajnak" <rgajnak@...> 21. Re: Zephyr? Deposit? and the wheel!! From: richard_snook@... 22. Convention Pictures - Trading Floor part1 From: Paul Yorke <yorke@...> ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 1 Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 06:12:11 -0400 From: Thomas@... Subject: Re: Zephyr? Deposit? What Zepher Project? Tom D. ----- Original Message ----- From: <wmhtreftsv@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2001 11:38 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Zephyr? Deposit? > Friends, > > Is the Zephyr project of Ron Bashista the same as the /Sunset Models > Zephyr project, or am I missing something. I had placed an order with > Sunset, but to the best of my knowledge, was never asked to place a > deposit. Boy, I sure would like to see a Zephyr! > > Thanks, > > Bill Trefts > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 06:50:35 -0400 From: Michael Greene <mgreene@...> Subject: Re: Zephyr? Deposit? At 10:38 PM 8/7/2001 -0500, wmhtreftsv@... wrote: >Friends, > >Is the Zephyr project of Ron Bashista the same as the /Sunset Models >Zephyr project, or am I missing something. I had placed an order with >Sunset, but to the best of my knowledge, was never asked to place a >deposit. Boy, I sure would like to see a Zephyr! > >Thanks, > >Bill Trefts Bill, I think you have confused two projects: 1) Quite some time ago (about 2 years ago) Sunset/3rd Rail proposed to do a brass quality (plated actually as I recall) model of the Flying Yankee. This is a model they already had in O and they were testing the market in S I believe. This proposal resulted in insufficient orders (at one count I saw an email from them that said they had 99 but were looking for 200), and they extended the proposal to also do a Zephyr (Pioneer) as well. But they still ended up with insufficient reservations. And it died. 2) More recently, American Models (Ron Bashista) responded to interest in the "scale" segment of the S community in the availability of scale length Budd cars. They also put a proposal on the table, but with insufficient reservations at the time to make it a go. I hope we will eventually see both the Flying Yankee and scale length Budd cars in S. Now that S has a BL2 (thanks Billy!) I'm sure we will eventually get a Flying Yankee from one of the manufacturers, since relatively speaking the interest in that is I believe even higher. And I feel that scale length Budd cars will come, it's only a matter of time... Hope this helps Michael ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 08:55:28 -0400 From: Chris Zizzo <busyboy@...> Subject: Re: Zephyr? Deposit? Bill Trefts wrote: >Is the Zephyr project of Ron Bashista the same as the /Sunset Models >Zephyr project, or am I missing something. I had placed an order with >Sunset, but to the best of my knowledge, was never asked to place a >deposit. Boy, I sure would like to see a Zephyr! Bill: Two Zephyr projects shelved . . . kinda sucks, doesn't it? The Sunset project was a plan to build, in brass, a model of the articulated unit Zephyr. This was one of the original trains that bore the name and is very similar to the Flying Yankee, so that they would also have been able, with a few modifications, to produce all the variations of the original streamliners. It was to be offered in scale and High Rail to maximize sales. For a brass model, it would have been very competitive with plastic/die-cast stuff, coming in at around 7 or 8 hundred for the train. Sunset couldn't get up enough interest, or so they felt, so they dropped it, and S with it apparently. It is very tough for manufacturers to move into a new gauge. It's like fish switching ponds. You gotta entice 'em, catch 'em and them lift them bodily and drop them into the new environment. Then they'll discover that they're not going to die. American Models, under Ron Bashista's guidance, was planning a later Zephyr made up of the Budd cars he is now building, but in full scale length. Presumably, the diesels would have been available separately. Ron offers F-7s and now E-8s in the Burlington Silver scheme. The train was planned as an all-dome train (even the observation car) and would also be available in scale and High-Rail. This project reached an impasse when Ron only received 80 out of his required 100 deposits. He did not trust that the market would sustain the cost of tooling the longer cars and the complexities of the Vista-Domes. He has not written it off altogether, and told me, at the NASG convention, that he would consider it again if he can find the support amongst S-gaugers for the project. The ball is in our court, I guess. Two to go, Chris Zizzo ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 4 Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 09:17:24 -0400 From: Scott Brown <sbrown56@...> Subject: Re:TAMR Richard wrote about recruiting younger members from TAMR. It reminded me that Steamtown was having their annual RailCamp during the NASG convention. Not sure if that was TAMR or not, but I was wondering if either of the clubs that had their layouts in the museum got a chance to talk with those kids ? They were the ones wearing the bright blue ball caps. I watched them get to couple cars out in the yard at Steamtown. They were using the NPR geep if any of you saw that. Didn't even dawn on me that we should invite them over to the convention. What was I (not) thinking about ? Scott Brown Atlantic Coast S Gaugers Washington & Old Dominion Division ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 5 Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 11:27:15 EDT From: WJJIM@... Subject: Re: Re:TAMR The RAILCAMPers you saw were in a program run by the National Park Service and the National Railway Historical Society. Prox four yrs old and very well received by campers and everyone else involved. Know a first yr camper and she came away very pleased and impressed, which might be tough for a girl whose family heritage is PRR, READING, PENN CENTRAL, CONRAIL, AMTRAK. OOPS, forgot to mention her mother has been Chair of the joint FP7 Committee from Lancaster, PA and Phil- adelphia, PA NRHS Chapters for over 15 yrs. They have saved and rebuilt Reading FP-7's 902 and 903 to running order and they do run them, a trip is planned from 30th St Station in Philly to Strasburg Station in Strasburg, on Sept 8. Tix available. This trip is the FIRST ever scheduled passenger train between those two points. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 6 Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 11:59:50 -0400 From: IronHorse <cofa@...> Subject: Flying Yankee The real "Flying Yankee" is in NH being completely restored. When it makes its maiden run on the Mountain Division in NH there will be thousands of people to witness the event. I am positive enough excitement will be generated so that many people, in attendance, would by a working model of this train based on impulse. Many wealthy people and politicians will be there to ride the train. Will the Makers of "S" miss out on this opportunity to make a quick sale at this event. This desire to buy the model , generated by this energy, will be a one time thing. Don't miss the boat on this. All kinds of Flying Yankee items will sell very good at this event. Roger ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 7 Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 12:52:10 -0400 From: Michael Greene <mgreene@...> Subject: Christmas comes early to Maine Junction Yesterday Christmas came early to the Maine Junction layout. Arriving home last night, I found a yet another box of fine S Helper Service products... Imagine our surprise when we opened the box to discover that a Northern Pacific double sheathed boxcar (road number 200001) had arrived on the Maine Junction. Imagine our greater surprise when we open the boxcar to discover one of Santa's elves asleep next to a Christmas package. Obviously the folks at the North Pole are in high gear getting ready for the upcoming Christmas season. Perhaps this elf had been packing boxcars with Christmas packages all day, and after loading this package, decided to sit down and rest for a bit. He obviously fell asleep, but imagine his surprise when he wakes to discover that not only did he fall asleep, but while he slept the car was shipped out with him in it! He has graciously agreed to stick around and help the Maine Central and other area railroads get their Christmas trains ready for the upcoming season. I'm quite sure it he doesn't mind the more relaxed environment in Maine. (It also probably helped that we offered a cabin (with hammock for more naps), shorts & t-shirts, fishingboat, Maine guide, and three weeks of bass fishing at some of the best, most secret fishing spots in Northern Maine before starting work!) Also arriving on the Maine Junction was the second paint scheme of the Maine Central Extended Vision caboose (MEC #645). (A sample of this was seen in Scranton at the S Helper Service booth.) Now the MEC has two cabooses ready and available to work behind the F-3's. With the recent release of the S Helper Service F-3s in Maine Central colors, this year's touring Maine Junction Christmas train will be lent by our friends on the Maine Central, and led by Maine Central F-3 A/B #671 (appropriately decorated). Look for more information & pictures of this year's Christmas Train and its planned schedule in the near future. Regards (and thanks to our friends at S Helper Service), Michael ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 8 Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 12:18:26 -0500 From: "Robert W. Jackson" <rwjackson@...> Subject: AF Hoppper Car Details > I have one dozen Liberty Models kits for adding the brake detail to AF > hopper cars. These have never been opened. They include white metal > castings for air tank, brake cylinder etc., and brass stampings for the > levers and brake wheel. Any one interested can have them for a buck a > piece or ten bucks for the lot, plus cost of mailing. Please contact me > off list if interested. > Bob Jackson ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 9 Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 12:33:42 -0500 From: roy inman <rinphoto@...> Subject: C&A logo Hi to all on lists: Does anyone know the whereabouts of a Chicago & Alton logo? Anything of most any size will do. Oddball decals no got. Any suggestions appreciated. Roy Inman ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 10 Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 15:14:21 -0400 From: Chuck Smith <cesmith@...> Subject: Re: Zephyr? Deposit? In case it wzsn't clear below, Sunset proposed the streamliner Zephyr whereas AM was looking into the California Zephyr full length psddenger cars. Two different projects. Michael Greene wrote: > > At 10:38 PM 8/7/2001 -0500, wmhtreftsv@... wrote: > >Friends, > > > >Is the Zephyr project of Ron Bashista the same as the /Sunset Models > >Zephyr project, or am I missing something. I had placed an order with > >Sunset, but to the best of my knowledge, was never asked to place a > >deposit. Boy, I sure would like to see a Zephyr! > > > >Thanks, > > > >Bill Trefts > > Bill, > > I think you have confused two projects: > > 1) Quite some time ago (about 2 years ago) Sunset/3rd Rail proposed to do a > brass quality (plated actually as I recall) model of the Flying Yankee. > This is a model they already had in O and they were testing the market in S > I believe. This proposal resulted in insufficient orders (at one count I > saw an email from them that said they had 99 but were looking for 200), and > they extended the proposal to also do a Zephyr (Pioneer) as well. But they > still ended up with insufficient reservations. And it died. > > 2) More recently, American Models (Ron Bashista) responded to interest in > the "scale" segment of the S community in the availability of scale length > Budd cars. They also put a proposal on the table, but with insufficient > reservations at the time to make it a go. > > I hope we will eventually see both the Flying Yankee and scale length Budd > cars in S. Now that S has a BL2 (thanks Billy!) I'm sure we will eventually > get a Flying Yankee from one of the manufacturers, since relatively > speaking the interest in that is I believe even higher. And I feel that > scale length Budd cars will come, it's only a matter of time... > > Hope this helps > Michael > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 11 Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 15:29:28 -0400 From: "Robichaud, Thomas Jr (Thomas)" <trobicha@...> Subject: RE: Zephyr? Deposit? You who may be interested in taking on a Flying Yankee project in S-gauge. Anyone doing this sign me up for one. And in talking to a number of people in the New England area, I know there is a lot more S-gaugers interested. Tom -----Original Message----- From: Chuck Smith [mailto:cesmith@...] Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 3:14 PM To: Michael Greene Cc: wmhtreftsv@...; S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Zephyr? Deposit? In case it wzsn't clear below, Sunset proposed the streamliner Zephyr whereas AM was looking into the California Zephyr full length psddenger cars. Two different projects. Michael Greene wrote: > > At 10:38 PM 8/7/2001 -0500, wmhtreftsv@... wrote: > >Friends, > > > >Is the Zephyr project of Ron Bashista the same as the /Sunset Models > >Zephyr project, or am I missing something. I had placed an order with > >Sunset, but to the best of my knowledge, was never asked to place a > >deposit. Boy, I sure would like to see a Zephyr! > > > >Thanks, > > > >Bill Trefts > > Bill, > > I think you have confused two projects: > > 1) Quite some time ago (about 2 years ago) Sunset/3rd Rail proposed to do a > brass quality (plated actually as I recall) model of the Flying Yankee. > This is a model they already had in O and they were testing the market in S > I believe. This proposal resulted in insufficient orders (at one count I > saw an email from them that said they had 99 but were looking for 200), and > they extended the proposal to also do a Zephyr (Pioneer) as well. But they > still ended up with insufficient reservations. And it died. > > 2) More recently, American Models (Ron Bashista) responded to interest in > the "scale" segment of the S community in the availability of scale length > Budd cars. They also put a proposal on the table, but with insufficient > reservations at the time to make it a go. > > I hope we will eventually see both the Flying Yankee and scale length Budd > cars in S. Now that S has a BL2 (thanks Billy!) I'm sure we will eventually > get a Flying Yankee from one of the manufacturers, since relatively > speaking the interest in that is I believe even higher. And I feel that > scale length Budd cars will come, it's only a matter of time... > > Hope this helps > Michael > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 12 Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 17:21:36 -0400 From: "Stan S." <sscale@...> Subject: Re: Re: Zephyr? Deposit? > This project reached an impasse when Ron only received > 80 out of his required 100 deposits. He did not trust that the market would > sustain the cost of tooling the longer cars and the complexities of the > Vista-Domes. He has not written it off altogether, and told me, at the NASG > convention, that he would consider it again if he can find the support > amongst S-gaugers for the project. The ball is in our court, I guess. > I don't know about anyone else, but while I'd buy Budd cars, I have absolutely no use for dome cars. I'd have to believe that proposing a complete train of domes is one reason this project didn't get a larger number of reservations. Stan Stokrocki ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 13 Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 18:09:07 -0400 From: TED R LARSON <mhrreast@...> Subject: American Muscle A while back, Ken Z commented on finding an American Muscle (replacement for Mint Editions) '61 Chev at Target. I finally got around to stopping by. Not only did they have that, but they had '64 Ford Fairlane, '65 Chevelle, and '65 GTO. Ted Larson Never argue with an idiot: People watching can't tell which is which. ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 14 Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 17:9:43 -0500 From: " Rich Gajnak" <rgajnak@...> Subject: Re: Zephyr? Deposit? Bill Trefts wrote: Is the Zephyr project of Ron Bashista the same as the /Sunset Models Zephyr project, or am I missing something. I had placed an order with Sunset, but to the best of my knowledge, was never asked to place a deposit. Boy, I sure would like to see a Zephyr! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Hello Bill, No, they were two different projects. Sunset Models (aka Third Rail) proposed a Pioneer Zephyr articulated train set in brass. Ron's project was for a full length, ten car (or two five car sets) California Zephyr in plastic, similar in construction to his current Budd car sets. Both projects were shelved due to lack of orders, or commitment, if you will. If I remember correctly, Sunset wanted 300 firm commitments and received about 90, whereas Ron wanted 100 deposits of one hundred dollars each, and received 80. Rich Gajnak [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 15 Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 01:01:37 +0200 From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi <velapoldi@...> Subject: Spirals Hi all: Has anyone had experience with spirals, especially ones that start reasonably rectangular and then get a little tighter as they get higher? Is there a problem in doing this with some tangential forces or something? I am considering building one to go up about 3-4 feet from the 38" table height to put some track at around 60 inches. I would build a mountain on one end of the layout and I would rather have the track remain mainly in the mountain, but show in a few places so that it appeared to follow the contour of the mountain. Probably I don't have enough room and should go to Sn3 or something else, but I would like to keep it S. Tx for any info or suggestions. Rance ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 16 Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 21:40:29 -0500 From: roy inman <rinphoto@...> Subject: C&A logo Many thanks to those who gave excellent suggestions on where to find a Chicago & Alton logo. I now have an image of that logo that will work. Roy Inman ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 17 Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 22:08:46 -0700 From: "Rick Evans" <comic@...> Subject: Some fun vehicles for your layout..... Have ya seen the "MUSCLE MACHINES" cars?? They are 1:64th, but are more "cartoon" in appearance. Large, very large engines poppin' outta the hood! Huge tires, and they are actually rubber, well, even the JL's have "sorta real" rubber tires,...they are rubber like! These Hot Rods would be more for fun on your layout. I have seen these in the past, but the cars didn't strike me,...Mustangs, GTO's, etc....however, tonight in Target, I found a '41 Willys Coupe, a '53 Chevy P-UP and a '56 Ford P-UP. Couldn't find the '57 Chevy or the '50 Ford Woody. Soooo,...of course, I bought a few! Just about three bucks each. If ya like the ol' hot rods with big ol' motors,...check these out. Also saw 1:64 G.I. Joe army vehicles, single or a five pack. Rick. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 18 Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 11:12:35 -0400 From: Chris Zizzo <busyboy@...> Subject: Re: Zephyr? Deposit? Stan Stokrocki said >I don't know about anyone else, but while I'd buy Budd cars, I have >absolutely no use for dome cars. I'd have to believe that proposing >a complete train of domes is one reason this project didn't get a >larger number of reservations. _________________________________________________________________ Well, I agree, Stan. You don't know about anyone else. The California Zephyr was an all dome train. Had you purchased a ticket to ride it, you could have explained to the conductor that you "have absolutely no use for dome cars." I think he might have suggested a transfer to another line west. Buy the CZ, get the CZ domes. People who want a CZ don't want a dome-less CZ. It wouldn't be true to prototype. Even American Flyer's Zephyr is all domes. You may find this totally impossible to believe, given your domic outlook, but some people actually like dome cars. Me, for instance. I didn't put up a deposit because I didn't have the greenbacks at the time (you know, those pocket sized pieces of paper with the Capitol dome on the back.) Two to go, CZ ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 19 Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 16:15:43 -0400 From: "Stan S." <sscale@...> Subject: Re: Re: Zephyr? Deposit? ________________________________________________________________ > Well, I agree, Stan. You don't know about anyone else. > > The California Zephyr was an all dome train... People who want a CZ > don't want a dome-less CZ. It wouldn't be true to prototype. Duh. No kidding? This project did not result from a volume of requests to make a Zephyr. It resulted from various people asking for scale-length Budd cars. So what will maximize sales here? A selection of cars that would allow people to approximate a number of trains which ran all over the country, or a consist of cars which is pretty much representative of one specific train? We have a pretty good idea of how many people want to buy Zephyr cars. This is only a percentage of the total number of modelers who might want to buy Budd cars. Since the CZ was the only choice offered, we really don't know what that percentage might be. The math seems obvious if I use both hands and only take the sock off of one foot, but again, that's just me talking. Stan Stokrocki ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 20 Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 19:36:17 -0500 From: " Rich Gajnak" <rgajnak@...> Subject: Re: Re: Zephyr? Deposit? Stan Stokrocki wrote: So what will maximize sales here? A selection of cars that would allow people to approximate a number of trains which ran all over the country, or a consist of cars which is pretty much representative of one specific train? ------------------------------------------------------------------- I believe that's how Kato's marketing their N Scale Budd's. Four car sets (A, B and sometimes C sets) with cars to approximate the intended train. Of course, by being S Scalers, it's got to be absolutely correct for XYZ Railroad as it was on June 24th, 1954 at 3:17 in the afternoon, or we're not interested.... Say, isn't that window supposed to be one and a half inches to the left??? :-) Be seeing you... Rich G. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 21 Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 01:12:06 -0000 From: richard_snook@... Subject: Re: Zephyr? Deposit? and the wheel!! ya know its kinda funny how we in S try to reinvent the Wheel all the time....there is no need....Its ROUND !! lol by this..I refer to a plethora of history of other manufacturers in those other scales to learn from. What did they try wha worked what failed... OK iknow we might be a slightly different subset of the overall equation ..BUT...two arms..two legs...or sounds like a duck etc..... Athearn have it worked out..Walthers have it worked out..Bachmann have it worked out..Atlas does to..Micro trains etc..no need to reach for the head ache powders...we can ride on their coat-tails...and IMPROVE it by selecting initially the better successes and emulate them...It is quite likely that some one who is switching across from Ho to S and liked the CZ Zephyr ...didnt have an exact train in HO either!!..unless he bought nickel plated brass!! Okie lets do the ol Atheran routine over at Am-Mod say...maybe Ron can gear up for a Dome roof on an existing car...sure not perfect...but itll sell..I betcha!...and those amongst us who want a 'real' train..well a-kitbash-we-a-go!!...thats the commercial route... Still itd be great to be able to buy say a box-pack of raw undecs...just chuck all the bits in Ron...dont assemble...dont paint...just like the big Bachmann G kits..cheaper, but not by any means nasty!!...well just an idea!! Still got me danged why No one has chosen a Harriman Consolidation ...I mean they even had them in the East too!!..What were ya thinking Don!! .*VBG*...lol back to the medication cheers >:~)) Richard ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 22 Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 21:33:09 -0400 From: Paul Yorke <yorke@...> Subject: Convention Pictures - Trading Floor part1 Sorry, but I have been busy with the non S-Trains parts of my life. here is a reward for your patience. http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/nasg01/conv1_floor.html just the tip of the iceburg. ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14400	From: D Simon	Date: 8/13/2001
Subject: Help Needed 21205 F

Hi I need help. I just picked up a 21205 B&M F unit. I do not have the motor mouting. I cannot find a pic of it so cant get part number. If anyone has a pic or the part number and wiring diagram I would REALLY appecate it Thanks Dave PS also if you have an extra mout please let me know _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14401	From: Michael Greene	Date: 8/13/2001
Subject: More DCC Projects

Another weekend has come and gone. On Sunday it rained here along the Mass./NH border, so I used the time to catch up on a couple of DCC projects. First I finished some documentation on a project I did a while back -- installing a DCC decoder and working alternating strobes in an American Models Amtrak F40PH. This project was finished before I took any pictures, but hopefully the text and final pictures might help anyone interested in a similar project. You can find it on the web in the Bristol S Gaugers web site DCC Projects page at: http://www.trainweb.org/bristol-s-gauge/DCC/Amf40ph/AMF40dcc.html Second I have been thinking for some time about installing DCC decoders in passenger cars to provide fully dimmable passenger car lighting, as well as control of other items like tail lights, drumhead lights, and perhaps even sound & animation in the cars. When Lenz Electronik released the ultra-small LE077XF decoder last year, I suspected that it would be a good decoder for such a project, and picked up several from a DCC dealer. When I saw the new Budd Co. passenger cars from American Models a few weeks back, I impressed at the quality & I knew I'd "need" a set for the layout, and thought this would be a really good set on which to try this project. So on Sunday with the rain, I completed the installation in two of the cars -- the coach and the observation car. I hope to have the installation on the other two completed this week, so that all four will be on the rails running at the New Haven CT show this coming Sunday. You can find more information about this project, with pictures and instructions at: http://www.trainweb.org/bristol-s-gauge/DCC/Ambudd/AMBudd.html Enjoy! Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14402	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 8/13/2001
Subject: Diesel hp ratings

If an F-unit, for example, was rated at 1500 horsepower, is that the horsepower of the diesel engines powering the generators which power the motors, or the hp rating of the motors that make the engine move? Thanks for your help. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14403	From: howard sheffield	Date: 8/13/2001
Subject: Getting involved

There have been a lot of interesting and revealing threads on promoting the interests of various groups and the perception of new people to us and of us to the people in the various parts of our S families in Sn3, Scale, new products vs old, and Hi-rail. Regardless of which area your interests lie, the key to the expansion of these/your interests is to get involved in some way. Those in the major market areas are fortunate to have the shows like Scranton and others where many clubs and vendors are already involved. If you are going to be in those areas, how about offering to help in some way for a little while, even if it is to stand there and talk to newbies. In the outer market areas where you don't have an organization doing an S layout or showing merchandise keep in mind that you could do it on your own. A table at a show could be as cheap as $15 and only take a day or two of your time. Some shows will give you a free layout spot just to have more trains running. In the general Sacramento California area, there aren't that many shows within 100 miles or more, and at the ones we have, there seems to be just some ACG and L-flyer sales and occasionally, an out of the area dealer who does not otherwise support the local market will show a few new manufactured items. Talking to people in the local hobby shops and elsewhere has shown that most people don't even know S is alive beyond old Flyer. David Dewey and I have decided to get tables at the area shows and promote S. I decided to get even more involved and have licensed myself as Howard' S Trains and will sell new products at our tables and at a couple of shops locally. We will be promoting NASG with the organizations literature being sent to me as well as any S club that furnishes information. I will have a binder and literature spot for S products that I get from the various suppliers. We have been offered free layout space and will be running ACG trains as well as AM sets and maybe some others. I will offer complete new sets to tempt newbies and returnies. We will show the public the old ACG track as well as the new code 148 and maybe other track items if things work out. David will put on his "Dr. Dave" the train doctor hat too. I may have to get him a stethoscope and medical scrubs from work to make it even better. The idea is to have some fun, hopefully make a few bucks, and promote the various conceptions of S. If we can, we will try to get an example of Sn3 to show. I haven't had time to do my V&T Shops shay conversion. Yup, I am one of the guys that will have a little of everything on his layout. I love the looks of scale and building it, but also have fun running ACG and accessories. Any manufacturors and suppliers out there that would like to furnish information or have product representation, please let me know on a personal e-mail. Our next shows will be in October and November. Anyone wanting show info, please contact us. Remember---YOU TOO CAN GET INVOLVED. Howard Sheffield Howard' S Trains Roseville, CA hjinrosvle@... _______________________________________________________________________ Free Domain Name Registration with Web Hosting at Lanset Communications. 56k Dialup, Web Design, and Colocation at http://www.lanset.net

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14404	From: Jim Carnes	Date: 8/13/2001
Subject: LTI AF GP-20 shell

Will a LTI AF GP-20 shell fit on a LTI AF GP-7/9 chassis? How about a Gilbert GP-7 chasis? Jim

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14405	From: Euell Johnson	Date: 8/13/2001
Subject: Re: Getting involved

Has anyone thought of a youth division modeling contest for the next convention? Say, scratch build a car and engine? Or another contest for the best kitbashed car/structure? For the winner(s) there could be a SHS/AM setup. The awards need not be elaborate or expensive. Maybe you give two or three awards. I leave it to you pros to come up with the rules, prizes and judges. These things fet kids involved. INVOLVED is the key word. A kid involved in this is one less on the street and into "stuff". EJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "howard sheffield" <hjinrosvle@...> To: <S-Trains@...>; <S-Scale@...> Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 7:13 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Getting involved > There have been a lot of interesting and revealing threads on promoting the interests > of various groups and the perception of new people to us and of us to the people > in the various parts of our S families in Sn3, Scale, new products vs old, and > Hi-rail. Regardless of which area your interests lie, the key to the expansion > of these/your interests is to get involved in some way. Those in the major > market areas are fortunate to have the shows like Scranton and others where > many clubs and vendors are already involved. If you are going to be in those > areas, how about offering to help in some way for a little while, even if it > is to stand there and talk to newbies. In the outer market areas where you > don't have an organization doing an S layout or showing merchandise keep in > mind that you could do it on your own. A table at a show could be as cheap > as $15 and only take a day or two of your time. Some shows will give you a > free layout spot just to have more trains running. > In the general Sacramento California area, there aren't that many shows within > 100 miles or more, and at the ones we have, there seems to be just some ACG > and L-flyer sales and occasionally, an out of the area dealer who does not otherwise > support the local market will show a few new manufactured items. > Talking to people in the local hobby shops and elsewhere has shown that most > people don't even know S is alive beyond old Flyer. > David Dewey and I have decided to get tables at the area shows and promote > S. I decided to get even more involved and have licensed myself as Howard' > S Trains and will sell new products at our tables and at a couple of shops > locally. We will be promoting NASG with the organizations literature being > sent to me as well as any S club that furnishes information. I will have a > binder and literature spot for S products that I get from the various suppliers. > We have been offered free layout space and will be running ACG trains as well > as AM sets and maybe some others. I will offer complete new sets to tempt newbies > and returnies. We will show the public the old ACG track as well as the new > code 148 and maybe other track items if things work out. David will put on > his "Dr. Dave" the train doctor hat too. I may have to get him a stethoscope > and medical scrubs from work to make it even better. The idea is to have some > fun, hopefully make a few bucks, and promote the various conceptions of S. > If we can, we will try to get an example of Sn3 to show. I haven't had time > to do my V&T Shops shay conversion. Yup, I am one of the guys that will have > a little of everything on his layout. I love the looks of scale and building > it, but also have fun running ACG and accessories. Any manufacturors and suppliers > out there that would like to furnish information or have product representation, > please let me know on a personal e-mail. > Our next shows will be in October and November. Anyone wanting show info, please > contact us. > Remember---YOU TOO CAN GET INVOLVED. > Howard Sheffield > Howard' S Trains > Roseville, CA > hjinrosvle@... > _______________________________________________________________________ > Free Domain Name Registration with Web Hosting at Lanset Communications. > 56k Dialup, Web Design, and Colocation at http://www.lanset.net > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14406	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/13/2001
Subject: Re: Getting involved

Howard, Hmm, OK, but what I really need is one of those reflector lights that go on the Dr.'s head! That would be too cool! BTW, we're going to have fun guys, isn't that what this hobby is all about???? S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14407	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 8/13/2001
Subject: Getting Involved

Has anyone checked with Joe's Train Repair as to the program he is "Ivolved" in???....Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14408	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 8/13/2001
Subject: Re: Diesel hp ratings

david_horn@... wrote: > If an F-unit, for example, was rated at 1500 horsepower, is that the > horsepower of the diesel engines powering the generators which power the > motors, or the hp rating of the motors that make the engine move? Thanks > for your help. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ In the US, this is seen as the horsepower available for traction--that is, after you deduct for accessories, resistance's, etc. In Europe. diesels are rated at their potential horsepower at the end of the motor shaft. The 1500hp F-7 goes to Europe and could be an 1800hp F-7. DJE

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14409	From: richard_snook@primus.com.au	Date: 8/13/2001
Subject: Re: Getting involved

--- In S-Trains@y..., "David Dewey" <djdewey@c...> wrote: > Howard, > Hmm, OK, but what I really need is one of those reflector lights that go > on the Dr.'s head! That would be too cool! > BTW, we're going to have fun guys, isn't that what this hobby is all > about???? > S' > David D. And of course the Obligatory "Hawkeye" dress code....best Hawiain shirt of course!! >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14410	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/13/2001
Subject: Re: Getting involved

Richard, ALL RIGHT!! I missed that ! And since I have a nice selection (hmm, some would question the use of "nice" here) of LOUD Hawaiian shirts, it's a no-brainer! Hmm, except I don't want to get cleaning fluids or oils on my shirts. Hmmm. . . . We WERE going to go to Kona for our 25th anniversary, but air fares are still astronomical (if we only wanted to go to Honolulu, maybe, but there's no free housing, food, & transport there!). Sooo. . .Watch out Rocky Mountain S Gaugers, we're a planin' a trip your way!! (Ike, Steve, fair warning!) S David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14411	From: gino restivo	Date: 8/13/2001
Subject: Re: Help 21205 F

hi dave , sorry no help in factory manual for the mounting bar , expldd view shows a strap bar riveted on the dmy trk , it goes into the slots on the side of the body , maybe some- one in this group has one and can measure it for you ? i don't have any f - diesels ... if you have a fax # e-mail to me ( off list ) , i can fax you the expldd view page ... try a few parts dealers for a used dmy truck ? you may get what you need ...... have fun , gino -----Original Message----- From: D Simon <aftrain@...> To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Date: Monday, August 13, 2001 12:41 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Help Needed 21205 F >Hi > >I need help. I just picked up a 21205 B&M F unit. I do not have the motor >mouting. I cannot find a pic of it so cant get part number. If anyone has a >pic or the part number and wiring diagram I would REALLY >appecate it > >Thanks > >Dave > >PS also if you have an extra mout please let me know > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > ---------------------------------------------------- NetZero Platinum Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month! http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14412	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 8/13/2001
Subject: S-Gauge Video, Volume II

For all interested parties. The editing is all done on Vol. II and next week we title and start printing copies. I will start accepting payment for these as of Aug 24 post mark (my birthday) #63 thank you very much. The first copies should be able to be mailed as of Aug 27th barring any Gremlins. The price is $13 post paid by snail mail. If you want Priority mail add $2.50 and so note on your check or money order. by the way I still have 2 copies of Volume 1 in case anyone out there didn't get one and would like to have one. Thanks to all of you that bought #1. It was a huge success in my eyes and I don't think anyone will be disappointed in #2. And yes, Vol. III is in the making. It will feature Jess Bennett's fabulous Great Northern Pacific again but in much more depth with construction tips from Jess and no S-West crowds in the way. It will also feature some 1989 vintage video of Ernie Horr at the throttle of Jess Bennett's layout doubleheading a Challenger and a Big Boy. I will probably release it in time for Christmas. Best of everything to all of you and give our Can Motor a try. It won't disappoint you either. Steve And Sam [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14413	From: Lee Johnson	Date: 8/14/2001
Subject: Re: Getting involved

on 8/14/01 7:34 AM, Euell Johnson at bigfoot@... wrote: > Has anyone thought of a youth division modeling contest for the next > convention? The NASG contest rules already state that there will be a Junior event open to all those who are 16 years old or less and must be an NASG member in good standing including family memberships. It is an open category. The mechanism is already in place. What is needed, is to get the youth interested in entering models in the contest. Lee

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14414	From: Lee Johnson	Date: 8/14/2001
Subject: Re: Diesel hp ratings

on 8/13/01 1:35 PM, david_horn@... at david_horn@... wrote: > If an F-unit, for example, was rated at 1500 horsepower, is that the > horsepower of the diesel engines powering the generators which power the > motors, or the hp rating of the motors that make the engine move? David, The horsepower used for rating locomotives is the horsepower of the prime mover (diesel engine) that is available for traction. This is the horsepower that is available for input to the traction generator (or traction alternator) after the horsepower needed to drive the auxiliaries (air compressor, radiator fans, aux. generator, exciter, and anything else driven off the crankshaft of the diesel engine) is accounted for. As DJE stated, the brake horsepower (total engine output) of the diesel engine of an F-3/F-7 is about 1800 HP, so the auxiliaries consume about 300 HP on an F-3/F-7. The HP at the traction motors in something less, as there are losses incurred going through the generator, and there are additional losses going through the traction motor. On a locomotive a traction motor is not rated by HP, but by the maximum current it can receive without over heating. On an F-3, this is 700 amps. Lee

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14415	From: Alex Sibbald	Date: 8/14/2001
Subject: 759 bell danger signal

Hi all, I seemed to have melted the coil in my 759 bell house. Can anyone confirm the size of the magnet wire and the number of turns on the coil. I counted about 600 turns of blackened wire. Does anyone sell the assembly or is it fabrication time for me? Thanks alot, innotron

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14416	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 8/14/2001
Subject: S GAUGE & AMERICAN LOCOMOTIVE COMPANY

I was surprised that no one mentioned the September issue of "Trains" Magazine. Seems that it is the 100th anniversary of American Locomotive Company (ALCO). The front cover has the Alco PA in Santa Fe colors (looks like a Gilbert prototype) so I bought the magazine. Very interesting reading as it features a fold out of the "Big Boy". On page 27 is a shot of Empire State Express cars being pulled by RS3s. On page 46 are two J-3a Hudsons. The story of ALCO is interesting too since the company died in the 1960s much like the the A.C. Gilbert toy train industry. Seems the ALCO diesel engine quality was poor and the company dropped to third place and then out of business. Staying on the NPSG branchline of NASG track, Glenn

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14417	From: joe messinger	Date: 8/14/2001
Subject: Pleasant Surprise

Yesterday evening, I got a phone call from Bob Carpenter who is a member of the South Jersey S Guagers. Bob said that he had read a post that I had offered on the S list last year regarding building 3/4" "Super Motors" using 1/2" motors for parts. He told me that he tried the project and was successful. Bob has since built a good many of these motors. He has also built and re-built lots of other Flyer motors. He is now the "Motor Man" for his club! In the area where I live here in West Virginia, I don't know of any S enthusiasts or related clubs. It was good to talk with someone who shared my interest. Thanks, Bob, for taking the time to call me. It's good to know that my post was of some help to others. Thanks, also, to all of you who have helped me greatly by sharing your knowledge here on the list. Joe Messinger _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14418	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 8/14/2001
Subject: B&O Museum 2002/3

I read an article a couple of weeks ago in a train magazine (think it was Trains), about how the B&O Museum is gearing up for a big 125th anniversary celebration during 2002 and into part of 2003. The finale is supposed to be in July 2003 with a gathering of steam locos from around the country. I think it said they will be trying to replicate a similar gathering of iron-horse power similar to what was present at an event there in the 30's. Oh, how does, this relate to S-gauge trains, who knows, maybe you'll see one of your ACG favorites in real life, or maybe our S-gauge club (W&OD Division of ACSG) can participate by running our layout there........hmmmmm. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14419	From: Mark Preman	Date: 8/14/2001
Subject: Train Show This Weekend in Lake Worth

Train show this Saturday at the Polish Club on Lake Worth Road open to the public from 10:30 to 3:30. Mark ===== Mark B. Preman AmericanFlyerTrains.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14420	From: jseltzer@larich.com	Date: 8/14/2001
Subject: Buds, Domes & Economics

I would guess a lot of model RR operators love dome cars. Back in my American Flyer days I sure did. What we are discussing is not if we like dome cars, but the economic reality of having long Budd cars made in S. In order to justify the investment the first order has to sell a lot of cars. So one way to do this is to try to put out the most 'generic' Budd cars possible. Ten years ago when I produced the 80' Budd coach bodies I discovered that very few Budd cars are not unique to one or two Rail Roads. There are many generic traits but there are differences in windows, skirts & trucks between most Budd car owners. To see what I mean read up on the first years of Amtrak when they had to operate, maintain and refurbish these cars. That said there are a few almost generic cars. Walthers has jumped on this by producing an Amtrak Heritage coach, diner and 10-6 sleeper. They are offering these cars in the Amtrack HEP Heritage versions as well as Budd "origional" versions for various railroads. While not exact prototype modeling, It comes so close to most of the roads offered that the differences are hardly noticable. The point is they are not trying to market a 'set' but just popular generic type cars. A generic coach, sleeper, diner and perhaps a 60' Baggage car could be the start as all railroads with Budd cars used most if not all of these types. Even the CB&Q had flat top coachs in the Dome trains. More unique car types could be produced once the initial investment was paid for. Producing a parlor or lounge car is just a case of changing the sides. A dome car or observation car would be much more involved. By the way, in regard to the plastic AF dome car, the first 2 Budd dome cars were buit out of flat top Budd coachs in the shops of the CB&Q and kept the full height coach windows. So by cutting a hole in the top of a coach Gilbert was just folowing the real thing. Josh Seltzer

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14421	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 8/14/2001
Subject: Re: B&O Museum 2002/3

Maybe the NASG should consider having the NASG convention there in July too! Don T. david_horn@... wrote: > I read an article a couple of weeks ago in a train magazine (think it was > Trains), about how the B&O Museum is gearing up for a big 125th anniversary > celebration during 2002 and into part of 2003. The finale is supposed to be > in July 2003 with a gathering of steam locos from around the country. I > think it said they will be trying to replicate a similar gathering of > iron-horse power similar to what was present at an event there in the 30's. > Oh, how does, this relate to S-gauge trains, who knows, maybe you'll see one > of your ACG favorites in real life, or maybe our S-gauge club (W&OD Division > of ACSG) can participate by running our layout there........hmmmmm. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 F-3s and Double Sheathed boxcars are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/emdf3s_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14422	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 8/14/2001
Subject: make that 175th

July 4, 1828 .......... A massive public parade was held, in which nearly every resident of Baltimore participated or witnessed, from downtown to a site chosen for the laying of the B&O Railroad's ceremonial FIRST STONE. Merchants, military, politicians, trade unions, guilds, masons and the commercial enterprises of Baltimore all built floats and displays for the occasion. Charles Carroll of Carrollton (a distant cousin of James Carroll) presided over the laying of the stone by Maryland's Masonic Grand Lodges. Charles Carroll of Carrollton, one of the B&O's earliest investors, was the last living signer of America's Declaration of Independence. He was 90 years old when he pushed the spade in the ground and declared that he considered the moment "among the most important acts of my life, second only to my signing The Declaration of Independence, if even it be second to that!" But no mention of 2002/2003 celebrations yet on their web site from what could see with a quick scan. http://www.borail.org/about.html I put in a request for information on their plans for celebrations in 2002 and 2003. I'll let you know what I find out. PS On that same day, former President John Quincy Adams was in Georgetown, attempting to dig the first shovel full of dirt for the C&O Canal (he hit rock the first two attempts). The B&O you see was viewed by many top press and brass as a lark or folly, after all, why pull a carriage on rails with a horse when you could already drag it around whereever you wanted to .... talk about not seeing "the train coming". The canal was to get to the Ohio river in 10 years and cost 3 million dollars. It took 22 years and 13 million dollars to get half way (Cumberland, MD). The B&O got to Cumberland 8 years ahead the canal. Hmmmmm, how many model canal operators do you know? All kidding aside, if you ever get to visit the C&O Canal National Park in Maryland, do so. It is a great park with a terrific ride on a barge through a working lock system and very informative commentary provided by park rangers in 1870's attire. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14423	From: Stan S.	Date: 8/14/2001
Subject: Re: Buds, Domes & Economics

> What we are discussing is not if we > like dome cars, but the economic reality of having long Budd cars > made in S. Exactly- thanks. Personally, I'd like to see Viewliners and Amfleet cars above all else. If I were a manufacturer, would these be the first things that I'd make? From a business standpoint, absolutely not. (But if I win the lottery jackpot, look for them on your dealer's shelves). > > A generic coach, sleeper, diner and perhaps a 60' Baggage car could > be the start as all railroads with Budd cars used most if not all of > these types. I'd definitely include a reasonably generic dome car in the list. There are too many trains that can't be done without it and, as you said, it's a popular car. This is a lot more than I ever wanted to say about the subject. Are we done now? Stan

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14424	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 8/14/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] RE: 2003 in B&O land

Dear Terry, Maybe if the Potomac Valley S Scalers and Baltimore Area AF club jointly hosted the convention, we would get the best of both worlds. Don Terry Harrison wrote: > This sounds real good. Sure would be plenty of RR > people there. We don't have to draw them in. Plus > maybe the society would love to have convention there. > Sounds like job for convention chairman. I know > Lee is looking for some takers on the job. > > BUT. What do we have for clubs in that area? S. Jersey > and who else? Less then 24 months to get this one going. > Time to jump if this is where we want to be. Plus we need > to schedule away from O scale meet that year. > > Terry > > The topic is S Scale please keep your messages 'on-topic'. > To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 F-3s and Double Sheathed boxcars are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/emdf3s_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14425	From: richard_snook@primus.com.au	Date: 8/14/2001
Subject: Youth in Modeling

Lee raises the point...getting youth into the contest!! Here in OZ our largest org..the AMRA has many of its comps 'open'...that is you do not need to be a member....... how about we let people enter an open youth comp..anyone uner say 18..anyone....lets get them in...then get their dues!!! lol cheers >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14426	From: J_Gasal@Compuserve.com	Date: 8/14/2001
Subject: Re: 759 bell danger signal

> I seemed to have melted the coil in my 759 bell house. Can anyone > confirm the size of the magnet wire and the number of turns on the coil. > I counted about 600 turns of blackened wire. Does anyone sell the > assembly or is it fabrication time for me? I looked at my unit and 30 guage copper seems to be the size. Since this is not a tuned "radio circuit", the number of turns is not real critical. If it were me, I'd use a variable speed drill to wind the coil until the thickness of the coil matches the size of the original unit. I don't know if they make replacement coils. One of my "to do" projects is to add an electronic timer circuit to go between the track trip and the bell so a stalled wheel on the track trip will not burn out the coil. The timer would give a pulse and would not allow continuous current if the trip is held down. hope this helps. John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14427	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 8/15/2001
Subject: [Fwd: Delivery Notification: Delivery has failed]

> I received a copy of the new Lionel 2001 Vol. 2 catalog today. The only > American Flyer listed besides a Christmas Box Car is the Sawmill....no > Gabe the Lamplighter...no Seaboard Coaler. Is this a bad sign that > perhaps production has been dropped on these items? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14428	From: Michael Christensen	Date: 8/15/2001
Subject: NO SEABOARD COALER? NO GABE THE LAMPLIGHTER

Hello Boys: Disappointed to see the new Lionel 2001 Vol 2 catalog today. Can't see my friend Gabe the Lamplighter or the Seaboard Coaler in the catalog...only the Sawmill is there. Does this mean the big L has dropped plans for production? Sam __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14429	From: Doug Peck	Date: 8/15/2001
Subject: Re: email

If anyone has emailed me within the past couple weeks, expected a reply, and hasn't received it, please inquire again. We have had some serious computer and email problems here which culminated with my hard drive craoking last weekend. Luckily, my computer-knowledgeable son was able to retrieve the entire contents from it and transfer it to a new hard drive. But I know lots of things went astray in the interim. While I'm posting, I'll also note that our new, revised website is now active. Hopefully, you will find it a bit more maneuverable, and more useful. There will be more to come on the site, over the next few weeks as well. Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14430	From: John Foley	Date: 8/15/2001
Subject: 2001 NASG Convention car

Hi Folks To those on the list who ordered a 2001 NASG Convention car [ Lackawanna reefer ] they have all been shipped. If you have not received your car please contact Bill Fuhrman at cbrf@... or call him at 203 266 7935 John Foley

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14431	From: TPDavis7@aol.com	Date: 8/15/2001
Subject: Homasote

In "How to build MODEL RAILROAD BENCHWORK," by Linn Westcott, on page 46, it says that it is not necessary to use a layer of plywood under Homasote when used for roadbed. In the past I have used Homasote over top of 3/8" or 1/2" plywood, but on the new layout I am planning to build, if I can just use Homasote, it will save the expense of the plywood, plus it will be easier to work with. Has anyone on the list had any experience just using Homasote as a base for your road bed? Has anyone built a solid tabletop type of layout just using Homasote for the top? On my planned layout I will be using the SHS S-Traxx System and combined with a Homasote roadbed should provide for noise free running, just the click-click at rail joints and turnout frogs. On one of the layout tours at the Scranton convention, the Sn3 layout, I noticed that both a double layer (plywood and Comatose) and a single layer (Homasote) were used on the layout. Thanks for any advise you guys can give me. Tom Davis, Charlotte, NC [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14432	From: Dennis Conway	Date: 8/15/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Homasote

Hi Tom, >> Has anyone on the list had any experience just using Homasote as a base for your road bed? Has anyone built a solid tabletop type of layout just using Homasote for the top? Yes. Check out my old Christmas display of Department 56 buildings and AF trains at: http://home.earthlink.net/~dlconway/ Check out the "Construction Views" pages. The benchwork is all pretty standard L-girder type. The tops, expect the little flat spot near the "mountain" top, are all Homasote. The Homasote is attached with drywall screws to the legs of the L-girders. No problems with warpage or anything. But, this is Los Angeles with no heavy humidity, etc. And I have central air and heat. The convoluted dogbone trackage is AM's code .148 flextrack and turnouts on cork roadbed. The trains ran fairly quietly with good "clicky- clack" with good old AF "choo-choo and smoke features. Dennis Conway Los Angeles

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14433	From: Keith B. Thompson - Sun	Date: 8/15/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Homasote

> > In "How to build MODEL RAILROAD BENCHWORK," by Linn Westcott, on page 46, it > says that it is not necessary to use a layer of plywood under Homasote when > used for roadbed. In the past I have used Homasote over top of 3/8" or 1/2" > plywood, but on the new layout I am planning to build, if I can just use > Homasote, it will save the expense of the plywood, plus it will be easier to > work with. > > Has anyone on the list had any experience just using Homasote as a base for > your road bed? Has anyone built a solid tabletop type of layout just using > Homasote for the top? "Solid" and "Homasote" should not be used in the same sentence. Homasote will sag over time unless the supports under it are _very_ close together. One problem you will have is if you scenic the top of the Homasote and leave the other side naked. The difference in moisture absorption rates between the top and bottom will cause big time problems. If it is only a temporary layout, you may be able to get away with it. But for long term... no way. IMHO of course, kbt

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14434	From: IronHorse	Date: 8/15/2001
Subject: Re: Homasote

TPDavis7@... wrote: > > Has anyone on the list had any experience just using Homasote as a base for > your road bed? Has anyone built a solid tabletop type of layout just using > Homasote for the top? This shortcut may cost you. Homosote is easy to break. A plywood base is required for a sturdy base. Use open grid work and cut the plywood in strips for the base, with homosote and then track. I just use plywood. I find no need for Homosote. Real trains are noisy, so I want my trains to be like the real ones. Also homosote is more likely to sag after a while. Not to mention it is heavy stuff as I recall. Strips cut from campers sleeping pads might make a good sound deading base. Ties could be glued down which should hold rail spikes. Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14435	From: J. Paul Hartman	Date: 8/15/2001
Subject: All Aboard Whistle

Info needed, please, w.r.t. the whistle that came with All Aboard panel #26121. A colleague has the panel, the button, and the house (2 story) but wonders what whistle was used. Any help would be appreciated. Many thanks. Paul Hartman

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14436	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 8/15/2001
Subject: Re: Homasote

Hi Tom, Our club, North Penn S Gaugers, uses homosote on our corner modules and some straights. After 3 years of setups we have not had any problems. Supports are 16" O.C. Staying on the NPSG branchline of NASG track, Glenn TPDavis7@... wrote: In "How to build MODEL RAILROAD BENCHWORK," by Linn Westcott, on page 46, it says that it is not necessary to use a layer of plywood under Homasote when used for roadbed. In the past I have used Homasote over top of 3/8" or 1/2" plywood, but on the new layout I am planning to build, if I can just use Homasote, it will save the expense of the plywood, plus it will be easier to work with. Thanks for any advise you guys can give me. Tom Davis, Charlotte, NC

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14437	From: Bill Lane	Date: 8/15/2001
Subject: Pennsy S Models Website updated

Hi All, The X-29 pilot model photos have been added to the Pennsy S Models website. www.pennsysmodels.com Please give it a look. We should have an Adobe Acrobat download of the order form on the Website soon. We also have announced our next car project. There was substantial interest shown for both cars at the NASG convention. Our builder has promised us a near production sample of the Railway Express version by our show in South Amboy NJ on Sept. 22. I hope to see you there. Thank You Bill Lane Pennsy S Models

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14438	From: carl@wsbt.com	Date: 8/15/2001
Subject: Looking for a 343 tender.

Does anyone have a tender for a 343 or 342 that would like to sell? Carl

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14439	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 8/15/2001
Subject: Re: Homasote

Tom Davis said: >On one of the layout tours at the Scranton convention, the Sn3 layout, I >noticed that both a double layer (plywood and Comatose) and a single layer >(Homasote) were used on the layout. I'm sorry. I fell asleep halfway through and missed the rest. Boy was I knocked out! CZ

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14440	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 8/15/2001
Subject: Stan's Final Word On Domes

Stan Stocrocki bemoaned: >This is a lot more than I ever wanted to say about the subject. Are >we done now? Sure Stan! You never have to talk about dome cars again. Say, though, what is the end message we want to pass along to Ron Bashista over there at American Models. From what I get, it's: "make a generic Budd set." Thanks. He made them, I already bought 2 of 'em. What about the domeliners. No? You don't want them? OK, I'll go without 'em. Thanks! Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14441	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 8/16/2001
Subject: Portable layout

Hi all, I just loaded some pics of the new portable layout I built to take to some shows in Ohio, Kentucky, Indiana, and possibly some in Tennessee. <A HREF="http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains">Click here: Yahoo! Clubs strains</A> or http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains. I hope to get some better pics on how I built the layout. I used store bought folding table legs which I think are about 30" off the ground. My wife made the skirt around the layout. Total cost for the table and legs with the skirt was right around $100.00. We used mostly all S-Helper track and switches with some flyer track to show the folks how they can be used together. All the accessories came off the home layout for temporary use. We used the new MTH Gabe along with a Lionel repro of the Louie the Loader, a whistling billboard, a water tower and an aircraft beacon. I had about 60 kids sitting on my lap running Gabe and the Barrel loader. I hope to go to Indianapolis, Columbus, Oh. and Cincinnati in Oct. Nov. and DEC. I have been approached by the NMRA guys to do their show in Nov. in Dayton also. Hopefully we can do a show a month for the next year. I hope you enjoy the pics. Chris Burger [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14442	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 8/16/2001
Subject: Portable layout con't.

Forgot to state that we ran an S-Helper Northern Pacific Starter set on the inside loop and the new F-3's on the outer loop. Needless to say, people were amazed with the F-3's sound when they could here it over the noise of the show. Both ran flawlessly for 12 hours during the show on saturday and sunday. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14443	From: David	Date: 8/16/2001
Subject: Re: Homasote

I had a 4 X 8 layout when I lived in Florida. Lots of heat and humidity. I had a simple 4 X 8 square frame with one brace running between the long sides. I had NO trouble with saging or breaking. In fact I used to kneel on it to reach the shelving above the layout. It attached very easily with sheet rock screws, was a pleasure to work with when using modeling materials such as white glue, and it cut and drilled easily. The hardest part was finding it, only one store carried it, and they had stuffed it all the way in the back on the top shelf. The price was about half of plywood. Just make sure its supported with cross bracing, and not exposed to actual water and you'll have no troubles.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14444	From: Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S.	Date: 8/16/2001
Subject: Re: Homasote

David wrote: > > I had a 4 X 8 layout when I lived in Florida. Lots of heat and > humidity. I had a simple 4 X 8 square frame with one brace running > between the long sides. I had NO trouble with saging or breaking. In (snip) I still live in FL and have purchased Homasote at various times over the years. Left over pieces that were purchased in the 1970's are still straight and true. Others purchased in the 1990's warped out of shape and were trashed. Like the auto milage, results will vary! I suspect that it is like just about everything else and things have changed over the years. Perhaps the glues, materials, or manufacturing processes. When building a layout that will be the showcase for perhaps thousands of dollars of equipment, why go cheap on the construction side? Use good quality, straight lumber, then put down a layer of 1/2" plywood, and follow it with the Homasote. Take care, Bill -- ============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-643-1105 FAX: 813-681-7326 B.T.S. http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14445	From: afstrains@aol.com	Date: 8/16/2001
Subject: Re: New Haven Train Show

Hope to see ALL of you at Connecticut's largest train show, Sunday, August 19 from 9:00 to 3:00. Yale's, Payne Whitney Gymnasium. AFSTrains.com for directions. John and Robin Vanacore [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14446	From: David A. Highfield	Date: 8/16/2001
Subject: Re: Homasote

I have used Homasote only but found that unless it is well-supported underneath, after a time, it will sag. I had to add more supporting 2x4s. If I rebuild my table, I will put Homasote over plywood. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: <TPDavis7@...> To: <S-Scale@egroups.com>; <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 1:05 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Homasote > In "How to build MODEL RAILROAD BENCHWORK," by Linn Westcott, on page 46, it > says that it is not necessary to use a layer of plywood under Homasote when > used for roadbed. In the past I have used Homasote over top of 3/8" or 1/2" > plywood, but on the new layout I am planning to build, if I can just use > Homasote, it will save the expense of the plywood, plus it will be easier to > work with. > > Has anyone on the list had any experience just using Homasote as a base for > your road bed? Has anyone built a solid tabletop type of layout just using > Homasote for the top? > > On my planned layout I will be using the SHS S-Traxx System and combined with > a Homasote roadbed should provide for noise free running, just the > click-click at rail joints and turnout frogs. > > On one of the layout tours at the Scranton convention, the Sn3 layout, I > noticed that both a double layer (plywood and Comatose) and a single layer > (Homasote) were used on the layout. > > Thanks for any advise you guys can give me. > > Tom Davis, Charlotte, NC > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14447	From: David A. Highfield	Date: 8/16/2001
Subject: Fw: [S-Trains] Homasote

----- Original Message ----- From: "David A. Highfield" <davidh@...> To: <S-Scale@egroups.com>; <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>; <TPDavis7@...> Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 1:30 PM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Homasote > I have used Homasote only but found that unless it is well-supported underneath, after a time, it will sag. I had to add more supporting 2x4s. If I rebuild my table, I will put Homasote over plywood. > Dave > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14448	From: Bob	Date: 8/16/2001
Subject: Lionel's Gabe..........

Dear Group, A few weeks ago someone in our group went to the convention and seen the Lionel's version of the A.F. Gabe "the lanp lighter".He had stated that there was only two button on the controller not three like the orginal and the M.T.H.version ( which by the way I have and it works great!).Could that person or anyone else could explain how that two button version works.Please post any and all responces.Thanks as always........Bob

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14449	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 8/16/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1113

759 Danger bell coil. John Hannon has just published a book that will list all the specifications for winding the coil + every motor and coil produced by Gilbert. Excellent book. # 30 wire 15 layers, 608 - 630, turns & 7.0 - 8.3 ohms resistance. Jerry 77-11644 ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14450	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 8/16/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1114

QUITE TRAINS. I have used plywood for a base table top (strong to walk on), lay my track (original Flyer) on jute carpet cut in 3"strips, add extra ties, ballast with light colored oil absorbent clay, held in place with John's ballast glue. this quiets the trains so that I can hear the choo-choo. For grades I cut the plywood along a portion of the track and bent it up to the tangent of the vertical curve, it gives a perfect transition for the vertical curve. Jerry 77-11644 ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14451	From: David Garber	Date: 8/16/2001
Subject: Re: New Haven Train Show

I will be at the show on Sun. helping a A.F vender. I will have a printed "S-Trains.com Badge" .Stop and say hello. d.garber@... Enjoy Dave Garber

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14452	From: Timboy@att.net	Date: 8/16/2001
Subject: Compatability with Flyer track

Hey guys, Here's an elementary question: Are the high-rail turnouts compatible with regular Flyer track. I built a Flyer layout this summer using all Flyer track and switches. The switches don't look very good and they are rough - causing lots of derailments. I put all my track up on Johnson roadbed and it looks nice. Is it feasible to keep the Flyer track and change the switches to high-rail turnouts? Thanks. Maybe I'll see some of you guys at Mecca this weekend.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14453	From: JamesIngram@track2.com	Date: 8/17/2001
Subject: FYI: Computer-Controlled S-Gauge

FYI: Point To Point, Computer-Controlled S-Gauge DCC With Sound If you were at the NASG National Convention in Steamtown (or at the NMRA National Convention in St. Louis), and saw the automated point-to-point display, featuring the customized S-Helper Service SW-9 with the rotary beacon light on top of the cab and Soundtraxx sound, using a computer to control the North Coast Engineering DCC command station; I have put some updated information about this system at http://track2.com/pa/dcc2-cpu.shtml . Thanks. - Jim Ingram __ . ______ | | . _______________ _______________ _____ | | \/ . |James R. Ingram| | Williamsport | | | |[][]|_^___^___^_[] . | 570-322-0988 | | Pa | | D&H | | | | . =|_______________|=|_______________|=|_____+-+____|____________|_ . 0--0 0--0 0--0 0--0 o+o +-+ 0-+ <>-<>-<>-<>-= \ . TTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14454	From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi	Date: 8/17/2001
Subject: Re: Compatability with Flyer track

What is Johnson roadbed? Tx. Rance Timboy@... wrote: > Hey guys, > Here's an elementary question: Are the high-rail turnouts compatible > with regular Flyer track. I built a Flyer layout this summer using > all Flyer track and switches. The switches don't look very good and > they are rough - causing lots of derailments. I put all my track up > on Johnson roadbed and it looks nice. Is it feasible to keep the > Flyer track and change the switches to high-rail turnouts? Thanks. > Maybe I'll see some of you guys at Mecca this weekend. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14455	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 8/17/2001
Subject: Show Visit

Gentlemen, For those of you in the Washington DC region who are not attending the New Haven gathering, We will be at the Greenberg show in Chantilly Va. Stop by and see us. Thanks, Tom D. Tom Doherty Pennsylvania Heritage Models, Ltd. http://www.paheritagemodels.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14456	From: Tim Brown	Date: 8/17/2001
Subject: Re: Compatability with Flyer track

Hi, It's a repro roadbed made to the exact specs of the original Flyer rubber roadbed. Here's the link to their website: http://www.roadbed.net/ In the quantity I recently purchased, I paid about $1.87 per section. Regards, Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rance and Bente Velapoldi" <velapoldi@...> To: <Timboy@...>; "S-trains yahoo" <S-trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 6:00 AM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Compatability with Flyer track > What is Johnson roadbed? Tx. > Rance > > Timboy@... wrote: > > > Hey guys, > > Here's an elementary question: Are the high-rail turnouts compatible > > with regular Flyer track. I built a Flyer layout this summer using > > all Flyer track and switches. The switches don't look very good and > > they are rough - causing lots of derailments. I put all my track up > > on Johnson roadbed and it looks nice. Is it feasible to keep the > > Flyer track and change the switches to high-rail turnouts? Thanks. > > Maybe I'll see some of you guys at Mecca this weekend. > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14457	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 8/17/2001
Subject: Re: Lionel's Gabe..........

Bob asked: >A few weeks ago someone in our group went to the convention >and seen the Lionel's version of the A.F. Gabe "the lanp lighter".He >had stated that there was only two button on the controller not three >like the orginal and the M.T.H.version ( which by the way I have and >it works great!).Could that person or anyone else could explain how >that two button version works. That someone was me. Here is my original post. It answers your question. I saw the Lionel Gabe. It looks precisely like the MTH Gabe. It operates a little differently, though. It has only 2 buttons. One propels Gabe, rung by rung, up the ladder. The other slides him back down. There is no rotary light switch, so the only way to turn on the lights is to push the "climb" button about 20 times until Gabe reaches the top and switches them on. Ditto for turning them off. Gabe "stalled" many times on his way up. He didn't look like Jimmy Stewart, but he appeared to have vertigo and needed extra persuasion, unlike the brave MTH Gabe. I noticed that the string would go slack a bit. To be fair, this is a pre-production model being hammered by a record crowd of over 500 participants (though I did try it on only the second day). Hopefully, Lionel will have the bugs ironed out by the production run. To my mind, I don't need it. I have one. The MTH nameplate on it does not detract from my enjoyment. So, Gabe does it when he gets there. Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14458	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 8/17/2001
Subject: AF Turnouts

I used to get mine to operate better (i.e. trains run more smoothly over them in both directions) with shims of various thickness styrene plastic under either the forward or aft portions of each frog. However, I've discovered the secret is the spring washer associated with the post on which the frog rotates. If that spring washer exerts the proper force on the frog you don't need any shims. In fact I've removed all shims. Assuming you've got the internals or each turnout correct (remove the back plate, inspect, clean, adjust spring loaded cam, etc.), then getting that spring washer-frog combination right is next. Many spring washers have lost their curved or "hemi" shape over the years and are relatively flat - - ergo no more push upward on the frog, ergo a frog that can rock when an engine goes over it, ergo less than reliable operation. Using two screwdrivers, one on each side, gently work the post up out of the turnout's base. Clean the post and washer so they interface smoothly with each other. While the post and washer are out, I pass a piece of cotton cloth dampened with 91% isopropyl alcohol back and forth under the frog so as to clean its underside and create a clean smooth surface on the base for it to slide on. I also clean the hole in the frog with iso on a Q-tip. If you don't have replacement spring washers, here's what I've found works best to revitalize them. If you reshape a spring washer back into a dome like configuration, you may not have as much success with it as if you bend each tab more discretely down about 3/64" of an inch from its edge. So it looks more like a claw than a dome. [for mental image -- put you hand on a table top so it is upright on your finger tips only as if a half-grapefruit were under your palm (the dome), now 'remove the half-grapefruit', and push down, see how your fingers bend at the second knuckle of each finger, that's the claw-like look you want with your spring washer.] The reason I've found the claw works better than the dome is because when reinstalling the post and spring washer, the base of a turnout can give under the pressure of reinserting the post, and in the process actually over extend the spring washer backward, leaving it nearly flat again. The claw can take that and rebound with a shape that continues to exert pressure upward against the frog. When reinstalling the post and spring washer (tabs down) I've found it helpful to gently lift the frog, position the post and washer in the hole in the frog, now lower the frog-post-washer assembly so the post lines up with hole in the base and reinsert the post. That helps avoid the spring-washer slipping under the "shelf" in the post and crimping the inside surface of the hole in the washer as you push the post back in the hole. Try it. You'll see. The engines I've found most critical to test turnouts with are 21004 (low flange height makes them particular about their frogs), 471/360 PA's backwards and forwards (small diameter drivers, dual pick-up shoes, side frames all make for a lot to get smoothly over turnouts, especially at high speed), 326 Hudson (especially when the turnout is set curved, Hudson's tend to be a bit top heavy and depend on sure footing for balance, even more so than Northerns which have a longer wheel base on which to share the load). You can get even old heavily used AF turnouts to work crisply, and smoothly with a wide range of engines if you're patient and methodical about your work on each unit. I found trying to tune only one or two at a time helps. Eventually I got through them all, and they work great. PS Don't lubricate your turnouts other than internally. There's no need to oil anything on the outside, besides if you do, those points just become dust/gunk magnets. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14459	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 8/17/2001
Subject: roadbed

Tim: did you know that when using rubber roadbed, you have to elevate switches, crossings, and rerailers slightly? The roadbed raises the track by about 1/16 inch but does not raise the switches etc. Perhaps this is why trains are not running through your Flyer switches smoothly. You can place sheets of shirt cardboard or a similar material under switches. Also, if you still suffer derailments after doing that, it may help to raise the outer rail side of switches by another 1'16 inch or so with little pieces of the same cardboard. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14460	From: Doug Peck	Date: 8/17/2001
Subject: Re: (S-Trains)-New Haven

We will be at the big New Haven Train Show this Sunday with our usual 40' of sales tables, including AF Parts. Things to look for: (1) After selling out at the NASG Convention, we ARE restocked on the AF Can Motor Conversion kits. (2) Our new BAKERS CHOCOLATE NCCX flatcar with two BCh trailer vans is ready, and will be available. (Next week, we'll get it on our website.....) (3) Close-out prices on remaining Crown S reefers. (4) Inventory-reduction prices on our Twin Whistle Structure kits. (5) Some S-SCALE (not highrail) consignment items from one of our club members. Hope we see you there.... Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@... VISA -MC-DISCOVER-AMEX-PAYPAL Accepted.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14461	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 8/17/2001
Subject: AF turnouts

I have to disagree with David horn about the subject of AF turnouts. Now, I like DH a whole lot and his postings are very informative. He takes a fine and meticulous approach to repairing Flyer that often helps us all. So this is not the start of another mudslinging session! I may be wrong here but... Now, to those of you who don't deal with Flyer switches much, this may seem like a lot of arcane nonsense. But Flyer switches generally need just a little help. It's the difference between a good running layout and a very frustrating one. A switch must throw positively and the frog must be stable in both positions or constant derailments result. I have found that in most cases the spring washer, PA10927, that sits on top of the frog, is not very important at all to the performance of the switch. Removing the switch Pilot stud PA10925 that holds the frog in place almost always cracks the bed of the switch, and then the stud will only fit loosely when it is replaced. These cracks tend to sprad over time, too. This is therefore an operation that should be avoided whenever possible. And it very often results in no improvement in performance. I just overhauled 5 or 6 pairs of Flyer switches last month. Only ONE of these switches needed to have the spring washer refreshed -- the frog was just wobbling too much. That switch was definitely helped by the procedure. \ The most helpful procedure in stabilizing the frog is to make sure that the plunger spring, PA11414, is strong. You can remove this spring, place it on the shaft of a Phillips' head screwdriver, and stretch each coil. Then, it will drive the plunger firmly and that will hold the frog in most cases. Also, the tip of the plunger may be worn and it may help to turn it upside down so another spot on it gets the wear. I know that David Dewey is also in favor of overhauling the spring washer, so I have to disagree with him too. Please don't get angry at me, Duck! The current paths also need a little maintainence. The contact plates under the switch must be kept clean, and the diamond shaped contact must be shaped properly. The small metal tabs that hold the rails and have wires soldered to their undersides, may have to be soldered to the outside of the rail to provide reliable conductivity. That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14462	From: Scott Holm	Date: 8/17/2001
Subject: any news on proposed stuff?

Is there any news on some of the things that have been mentioned here recently? Such as, replacement can motors for AF diesels, decent paint in AF colors (not Train Enamel,) or reproduction reproducers? Anybody got anything else to tease us with? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14463	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 8/17/2001
Subject: AF Turnouts

Plunger profile and spring tension are important to the frog's yaw (lateral stability, i.e. how snug it sets against the outer or inner rail side). They also effect how "crisply", yet easily, the frog throws into position. Having those correct is part of what I referred to as first having the internals of (Note: typo in original post says "or") the turnout correct or "tuned" up. I didn't go into detail about that because of a previous post. I think by Tom J, and as with most of his technical postings, was worth printing out for reference later. Rejuvenating the "bounce" in the spring washer affects the stability of the frog in terms of its roll, or how much it rocks side-to-side on the base. Pitch is handled by the little "feet" under the wide and narrow sections of the frog - - assuming of course they aren't worn down. All I can say is that seven (each having first been internally tuned) of my switches now run better since "pepping up" their spring washers. Five of them used to require shims for smooth train travel, but no longer do. None of the seven post holes cracked or showed signs of any lesser grip on the post upon its reinsertion. I think the trick might be to lift the post out in a purely vertical fashion with two screwdrivers at a time. Any rocking of the post on its way out, and I'll bet it could crack the base, or at least deform the hole enough to prevent the post from ever fitting back in quite the same again. Maybe this turnout sensitivity of mine stems from the fact I run a small layout with one train or the other traversing 6 of the 7 switches on each lap - - also to interchange between loops. Add to that the fact I like to run 'em fast once in awhile (OK, most of the time), and desire smooth uninterrupted operation as much as possible.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14464	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 8/17/2001
Subject: Re: roadbed

My leyout uses switches without rubber roadbed and track with rubber roadbed. The switches need no shims, but merely suspend on the track pins, and I have never had derailments due to this. I install just the bevel edge from pieces of cork roadbed painted black (my roadbed is black) alongside the switches to hide the air gap underneath. jarcho@... wrote: > > Tim: did you know that when using rubber roadbed, you have to elevate > switches, crossings, and rerailers slightly? The roadbed raises the track > by about 1/16 inch but does not raise the switches etc. Perhaps this is > why trains are not running through your Flyer switches smoothly. You can > place sheets of shirt cardboard or a similar material under switches. > Also, if you still suffer derailments after doing that, it may help to > raise the outer rail side of switches by another 1'16 inch or so with > little pieces of the same cardboard. > > Tom Jarcho > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14465	From: Kimball, Bob (CH)	Date: 8/17/2001
Subject: High Rail Turnouts

I have a mixture of AF track, turnouts and Gargraves track and turnouts. They all work fine together. If your AF turnouts are not working right, try tuning them up. Clean them, lubricate them, and make sure you are giving the solenoid enough power. I have bought some pretty rough AF turnouts and they all work great - I like them better in some situations. I like the Gargraves turnouts in some situations too - but they are actually harder to get adjusted to work exactly right. > ---------- > From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com[SMTP:S-Trains@yahoogroups.com] > Reply To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 12:32 AM > To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1115 > > > Message: 11 > Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 02:40:01 -0000 > From: Timboy@... > Subject: Compatability with Flyer track > > Hey guys, > Here's an elementary question: Are the high-rail turnouts compatible > with regular Flyer track. I built a Flyer layout this summer using > all Flyer track and switches. The switches don't look very good and > they are rough - causing lots of derailments. I put all my track up > on Johnson roadbed and it looks nice. Is it feasible to keep the > Flyer track and change the switches to high-rail turnouts? Thanks. > Maybe I'll see some of you guys at Mecca this weekend. > > > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14466	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 8/17/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, August 19, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14467	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 8/17/2001
Subject: Re: -New Haven Train Show

Several of our Showcase Line dealers will be at the New Haven Train Show this weekend. Doug Peck will have many of our new cabooses and USRA Double Sheathed boxcars at the show. If any other of our dealers will also be at the show and would like a mention, just contact me. Don -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 F-3s and Double Sheathed boxcars are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/emdf3s_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14468	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/17/2001
Subject: Re: AF turnouts

Well, I won't argue with Tom too much over the spring washer! I am writing a column on switch tune-up for the Dispatch, so won't disclose EVERYTHING here! :-) I suspect the spring washer is NOT usually the culprit. I do believe the pivot pin can be removed with minor damage and replaced even! The trick is proper support, and some heat applied to the pin AND an avoidance of hammering (although I have resorted to it myself. A press is much better for this process. I have found (and I think Tom and I disagree on this, but hey! a little debate is good for the soul) that some switch "points" (whatever you want to call the moving rail piece) are warped! This causes the loco to tip sideways going around the curve (curve side seems to be the one that warps most) and the tender, which leads to derails or at least loss of electrical contact momentarily. Sight down your switch and see if you can see it, or use a straight edge to help your observation(s). Push down on the piece while looking too, to simulate a loco going over it. This can also tell you if the spring washer is weak, but if you over tension it, the switch won't want to pivot either (Been there, done that!). Once removed, you can straighten it w/ brute force. There's that press again! (or a hammer) Another source of derailments is the final alignment of the switch, especially at the frog end. The inside of the moving rail should line up with the inside of the plastic point. One can tweak the other end of the moving rail so it lines up when it's against the fixed rail. That should be enough info to start a lot of conversations! :-) S' David "the Duck" Dewey PS Gee, thanks Richard for the nickname--at least its better than my high school one (NO I'm not telling!)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14469	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/17/2001
Subject: Missing Sunday Flyerchat, AGAIN!!! AUGH!!!!

Hi all, Thought I'd drop a note, missed chat last week because of a last-minute trip to see a friend in the Hospital in Sacramento, and will miss this weekend because of an Historical Society meeting (PC important for me to attend because of my job), so I'll be absent again. You can spend time talking about me--that should use up 15 seconds! Just don't fail too many trout! S David D. PS If I don't post much this week, the historical society has a booth at the county fair, so I'll be gone a lot, and then I have to fix MY truck; it appears I've blown a head gasket, guess I'm too much a hot head! (had to use the pun before someone else did)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14470	From: John Denholm	Date: 8/18/2001
Subject: E-Bay Complaint [explaination]

Hi Gang! I am sorry to have to do this But as many of you have helped me with my AF collection these last few years I must advise you of a situation that is ongoing with me and a ebay seller and believe me you do deserve an explanation! I bid on a camera and I won the bid [67.00] U.S plus shipping that's Ok When i asked the seller to mail me the total costs he did comply The only problem was he tried to charge me $38.95 Air-Mail from Vancouver BC to me here in Edmonton Alberta!!Note all the other charges were correct except the Air-Mail Plus he charged me the G.S.T. over and above on the Air mail yet as the G.S.T. Tax is on the Total this really kicked the Price up [This Guy has a real money maker goin for him aye] Unfortunatley for him and lucky for me I happened to recieve a parcel from Seattle to edmonton just last week and it too was air mail first class same size and same weight cost? $6.13!! Well sir I am here to tell you I sent him an e mail cancelling the the bid and I flatly refused to send him any Money I also told him to sell it to the other Bidder or relist the Camera. So if I happen to Bid on any of our members trains please not to worry or concern as I have always played the straight Game and I always will my ebay name is [jde] oh yeah this Guy sells only cameras not Trains his ebay name is [photocentr1 ] Vancouver BC Canada. so please be carefull when dealing with this guy I only wish that i had been warned about him ! Thanks for the listen Guys Keep on "S" trains John Denholm Edmonton Canada

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14471	From: milayman@aol.com	Date: 8/18/2001
Subject: 21167?

Grand sons ask great questions! We were talking about the different American 4-4-0 (Casey Jones) engines. We were using the engine numbers (21165, 21166, and 21168) in our discussion. The question was asked: Why no 21167. I didn't have an answer. Do you have an answer. Was the number assigned to a product and never produced? What? Any assistance will be appreciated. Yes, I do know about the L-2001 and L-2002. Marvin

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14472	From: Bob	Date: 8/19/2001
Subject: M.T.H. Version........

Dear Group, I know this subject was talked about before , but I just bought the M.T.H. version of the A.F. #785 Coal Loader.I would like to know what kind of "fake" coal looks the best ,and works the best with this accessory.Please e-mail me or post any and all responces. Thank you evertone for all of theur knowledge and support......Bob

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14473	From: TED R LARSON	Date: 8/19/2001
Subject: Several Subjects

I'm catching up on 1-2 weeks of S-scale Digests, so several subjects here. There have been several requests for URL's or e-mail addresses. Don't forget that the NASG website offers a splendid set of S links, AND member e-mail addresses. I have very few S vendor websites bookmarked, I just go to the NASG link page. Thanks current and past NASG webmasters! Homabed: YES it can be thoroughly soaked. I'm going from memory here since I don't have any Homabed on hand, so the following might not be exactly right, BUT the Homa-Bed instruction sheet I once had said that if you need a curved piece and have none of the bendable sections (with saw kerfs in them), soak a straight section overnight, shake the water out, and bend it to your desired curve, let it dry. I suspect that you need to wait to glue it down until after it dries. I did it. It worked. I hope that someone can fill in the details that are missing from my memory. Homa-bed under switches? Just cut roadbed Homa-bed to fit the area under the switch. I'm told that Homa-bed also sells larger pieces that are the same thickness as their regular roadbed, for use under switches. There was a letter recently from someone who thought that the on-line S-MOD module construction diagram was clunky. I assume the writer referred to the plywood top with multiple 1x4 braces on edge under the plywood. Those braces ARE necessary. Thin plywood will sag without bracing. In addition to the cross braces, I like to put braces lengthwise under the track to avoid saggy track. In addition to sealing the top of your Homa-Bed, seal the bottom of the plywood to help reduce moisture absorption and sag. S on e-Bay: I suspect that when e-Bay advertises having an S - Scale section, S refers to the SIZE of our trains, 1/64th scale. I doubt very much that they intend to exclude AF, hi-rail, and Sn3 from that classification. All of these flavors of S are 1/64th (S) scale. I hope that ALL flavors of 1:64th scale trains are advertised in the S scale section; where S scale means the 1:64th scale in size, just as HO scale means 1:87, O means 1:48, etc. If everybody uses this section, it will make it much easier to find, therefore much easier for the seller to sell! Cab ride: Ken talks about cab rides in the mid-70's! I'm jealous! I spent many hours watching the local GN switcher in my small town during the 60's and I never got or saw any one else get a cab ride. ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14474	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/19/2001
Subject: Heads up Northern California--REAL trains!

Hi all, There is going to be a very interesting train running the feather river canyon and donner route. I may be prejudiced, as I painted three of the locomotives in the consist! But for you WP fans, and F units, etc. here's the release. Not mentioned in the release, and you didn't hear it from me, is that the UP Centennial MAY be in the consist too. S David D. Orange and Silver Returns to the Canyon With the cooperation and assistance of the Union Pacific Railroad, the Feather River Rail Society and the Downtown Truckee Merchants Association announce a ferry move of historic equipment from the Society's Portola Railroad Museum in Portola, CA, to Truckee, CA, for participation in Truckee 's Railroad Days, to be held on September 8-9, 2001. This equipment move will originate in Portola on Saturday, Sept. 1st, and travel down the ex-Western Pacific line through the Feather River Canyon to Oroville, then continue on the ex-WP to Haggin, near Sacramento, where it will transfer to the ex-SP to Roseville for an overnight layover. On Sunday, Sept. 2nd, the train will proceed from Roseville to Truckee via the ex-SP line over Donner Pass, where it will be stored until Railroad Days. After Truckee's Railroad Days, the train will return to Portola by the same routing, departing Truckee on Sunday evening, Sept. 9th, to Roseville, then back to Portola via the Feather River Canyon on Monday, Sept. 10th. Highlighting this equipment move will be four locomotives from the Museum's collection: GP7 WP 707, F9Bu WP 925C, FP7 WP 805A, and GP20 WP 2001, all of which are painted in the classic orange and silver of the Western Pacific, as well as freshly refurbished caboose WP 428. Also in the train will be gift shop/display car FRRX 5653, a former UP baggage car, and FRRX 754, a former VIA café-lounge car, both painted in a WP-inspired silver and orange scheme, as well as former UP business car 105, other cabooses, and an ex-WPMW boxcar for steps and supplies. For further information regarding this equipment move, the contact is Steve Habeck at the Portola Railroad Museum, at (530) 832-4131, or home at (530) 283-3396, or via E-mail at chooch@.... Please do NOT contact the Union Pacific; direct all inquiries to Mr. Habeck.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14475	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 8/19/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, August 19, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14476	From: hornickw@RMA.EDU	Date: 8/19/2001
Subject: AF 0-8-0 to Consolidation conversion

Hello All, Yes, I admit that I have been lurking but I've learned plenty just by listening. I have finally found some time to work on trains and would like to convert one of my junker AF 0-8-0's into a 2-8-0 Consolidation. I remember seeing such conversions in the Herald. They seemed to be rather non-destructive. My collection of the Herald is rather meagre, so I have to ask: Can anyone remember how it was done and what sort of a pilot truck was used? I'd appreciate any help I can get. John Hornick

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14477	From: Tim Brown	Date: 8/19/2001
Subject: Re: High Rail Turnouts

Hi, Thanks for all your insights on fine tuning AF post-war switches. Perhaps I was a bit misleading in my posting. Although proper functioning of the switches is a concern, I think the real reason I may want to replace the vintage switches with an 'S' gauge version, is 'cuz the vintage ones don't look very nice on my layout with all that bakelite - just my opinion - I could be wrong. Now that my Flyer layout is set up (at least the track, if not the scenery), I may want to gradually upgrade it, starting with the switches. I believe if Gilbert was still turning out Flyer, it all would be more like the 'S' gauge stuff - more realistic and with the digital enhancements. After all, AC was a pioneer and an innovator. In that spirit, I don't think it would be un-purist to upgrade locos to digital and track to 'S' gauge (high-rail). So, the first thing I need to find out is: is there an 'S' gauge switch compatible with post-war track? If so, what must be done to marry them? Thanks, Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kimball, Bob (CH)" <bob.kimball3@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 6:20 PM Subject: [S-Trains] High Rail Turnouts > I have a mixture of AF track, turnouts and Gargraves track and turnouts. > They all work fine together. If your AF turnouts are not working right, > try tuning them up. Clean them, lubricate them, and make sure you are > giving the solenoid enough power. I have bought some pretty rough AF > turnouts and they all work great - I like them better in some situations. > I like the Gargraves turnouts in some situations too - but they are actually > harder to get adjusted to work exactly right. > > > ---------- > > From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com[SMTP:S-Trains@yahoogroups.com] > > Reply To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 12:32 AM > > To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1115 > > > > > > Message: 11 > > Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 02:40:01 -0000 > > From: Timboy@... > > Subject: Compatability with Flyer track > > > > Hey guys, > > Here's an elementary question: Are the high-rail turnouts compatible > > with regular Flyer track. I built a Flyer layout this summer using > > all Flyer track and switches. The switches don't look very good and > > they are rough - causing lots of derailments. I put all my track up > > on Johnson roadbed and it looks nice. Is it feasible to keep the > > Flyer track and change the switches to high-rail turnouts? Thanks. > > Maybe I'll see some of you guys at Mecca this weekend. > > > > > > > > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14478	From: Don	Date: 8/19/2001
Subject: Re: question

Dear Juli, I am not sure if these will be S Scale, but the first two figure offering from MTH are indeed S (or very short 0 Scale). In their 2001 volume III catalog, they list several new figure sets and set 6 figure set #2 Fire House Employees (MTH# 30-11046 MSRP $19.95) may just fit your needs. Don PS I get my MTH figures from Doug Peck of Port Lines mailto: portlines@... CROMER wrote: > Hi, > > I'm wondering if you can help. I'm trying to find S scale figures. I see > that you have a couple, do you have others or know of sources for more? > I'm particularly looking for firemen. > > Thanks! > Juli Cromer > cromer@... -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 F-3s and Double Sheathed boxcars are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/emdf3s_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14479	From: Tim Brown	Date: 8/19/2001
Subject: The Gilbert factory tour

Hi all, I just wanted to thank the nice people who organized the Gilbert factory tour on Saturday. I thanked them at the train show in Connecticut on Sunday, but I wanted to express my appreciation to them via this 'S' list. Thanks guys!!! It was nicely organized and fun. I'm glad I made the trip to Connecticut for this event and the train show on Sunday. The commemorative car looks great on my layout. Thanks again, Tim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14480	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 8/19/2001
Subject: Re: AF 0-8-0 to Consolidation conversion

I did it with a K5 pilot casting cut off to fit. Alsso made a new 2 wheel lead truck out of some sheet steel and a Flyer wheelset. Made it so I could convert it back to an 0-8-0 because I realized I didn't want to irrevocably alter a rare piece. Still have all the conversion parta in a jar so I can convert it back to a consolidation at will. hornickw@... wrote: > > Hello All, > > Yes, I admit that I have been lurking but I've learned plenty just by > listening. I have finally found some time to work on trains and > would like to convert one of my junker AF 0-8-0's into a 2-8-0 > Consolidation. I remember seeing such conversions in the Herald. > They seemed to be rather non-destructive. My collection of the > Herald is rather meagre, so I have to ask: Can anyone remember how it > was done and what sort of a pilot truck was used? I'd appreciate any > help I can get. > > John Hornick > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14481	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 8/19/2001
Subject: Re: The Gilbert factory tour

In a message dated 8/19/01 7:56:29 PM, Timboy@... writes: << I just wanted to thank the nice people who organized the Gilbert factory tour on Saturday. >> Just a note to ad my thanks to that from Tim to the Vanacores for (yet) again organizing the Gilbert Factory Tour and Train Show. The factory tour always has new twists, some surprising display items and visiting former Gilbert employees to ad spice to the proceedings -- just as a journey to Mecca should have. The train show is always a good one. Just finished the assembly of the final details of my Gilbert's Milk tank car -- it looks great in my Gilbert Factory Tour train. For those in the know, I opted for a "head" and a "tail" on my tank car! :-) Thanks again, John and Robin. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14482	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 8/19/2001
Subject: Re: M.T.H. Version........

In a message dated 8/19/01 10:19:31 AM, YAZFACTS@... writes: << but I just bought the M.T.H. version of the A.F. #785 Coal Loader.I would like to know what kind of "fake" coal looks the best ,and works the best with this accessory. >> As before, I highly recommend Life Like No. 1105 coal for all Gilbert and Chunking Flyer coal loaders. It is a good compromise in terms of looks and operation. Hope this helps. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14483	From: Tom Stolte	Date: 8/19/2001
Subject: New decals from Odballs Decals - N, HO, S & O scales

645 BNSF M of W modern trucks. (1998 +) Green, blue, orange & white graphics. Set will letter 12 trucks. Has the small BNSF 2 color herald. HO, S & O scale only. 645 ATSF assorted station sign names from around the ATSF system, 2 of each name (present) 12 inch black lettering for the Sunrise Enterprises cast station sign. 646 ATSF assorted station sign names from around the ATSF system, 2 of each name (present) 12 inch black lettering for the Sunrise Enterprises cast station sign. 647 ATSF assorted station sign names from around the ATSF system, 2 of each name (present) 12 inch black lettering for the Sunrise Enterprises cast station sign. 648 ATSF assorted station sign names from around the ATSF system, 2 of each name (present) 12 inch black lettering for the Sunrise Enterprises cast station sign. 649 ATSF assorted station sign names from around the ATSF system, 2 of each name (present) 12 inch black lettering for the Sunrise Enterprises cast station sign. 650 ATSF assorted station sign names from around the ATSF system, 2 of each name (present) 12 inch black lettering for the Sunrise Enterprises cast station sign. 651 ATSF assorted station sign names from around the ATSF system, 2 of each name (present) 12 inch black lettering for the Sunrise Enterprises cast station sign. New catalog now on CD. PDF format. $5.00. Comes with Adobe reader. The N scale sets will letter 2 or 3 cars. S & O scale will letter 1 car. All the above decals refer to HO scale kits on the market. These will also work for other scales. Just pick a car of your choice in the other scales. Prefix numbers for N scale 60-. HO scale 87-. S scale 64-. O scale 48-. N & HO scale retail price $3.25. S & O scale retail price $6.50. These should be in your favorite hobby shop within the next month or so. If ordering direct, please include $1.75 for p&h. Up to date catalog N, HO, S & O scale, $6.00, plus $1.75 for p&h. You buy this catalog once, then every 3 months or so, send me a LSSAE for updates. Fits in a 3 ring binder. --- --- Tom Stolte - Oddballs Decals N, HO, S & O Scale Model Railroad Decals 26550 227th Street; McLouth, Kansas 66054 Phone: 913-727-6649 - oddballdecal@... Web site http://www.oddballsdecals.com/ Subscribe: OddballsDecals-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Missouri Pacific Photos Web Page: http://www.trainweb.org/mopac/ NMRA Member #121756

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14484	From: TED R LARSON	Date: 8/20/2001
Subject: GM&O

Forwarded message: the only thing I have to sell in S scale are GM&O freight car decals. If you would like to put a line in the Dispatch about this, that would be fine with me. all the info can be seen at the following web address http://www.redshift.com/~h2oman/gmo.htm Joe Visintine h2oman@... ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14485	From: afstrains@aol.com	Date: 8/21/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1118

To all of those who attended either the Gilbert Factory Tour and/or the Train Show in New Haven this past weekend, Both John and I appreciate your kind words. We have as much fun putting it together as I hope everyone does attending. We will continue to put this weekend together as long as we are permitted to rent the factory for the day. Again thanks for your comments and your support. Robin Vanacore

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14486	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 8/21/2001
Subject: 300 Atlantic Prototypes

I was flipping through an old issue of Trains from 1996 and ran across an article titled "Tinplate dreams". "Everybody's Atlantic "The Reading Company was a small 1400-mile Northeaster railroad that enjoyed disproportionate fame because of its inclusion the Monopoly game board. Its place in history was further secured when American Flyer in 1046 make one of Reading's locomotives -- the P-7sa 4-4-2 -- the prototype for a best-selling line of tinplate engines. In some ways it was an odd choice: the Reading only had four non-Camelback Atlantics, rebuilt in 1916 from 4-4-4's and their arch-window cabs and Wooten fireboxes (for anthracite coal) made them look ungainly. But their appearance improved when their 80 inch drivers got them up to speed, as No. 355 shows here south of Pottstown, Pa,, in August 1940. How many thousands of owners of Flyer's popular 4-4-2 would give their eye-teeth just to stand back and watch the show?" Just reporting what I found Thorin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14487	From: Rick Evans	Date: 8/21/2001
Subject: Re: NO SEABOARD COALER? NO GABE THE LAMPLIGHTER

Michael Christensen wrote: **(((Disappointed to see the new Lionel 2001 Vol 2 catalog today. Can't see my friend Gabe the Lamplighter or the Seaboard Coaler in the catalog...only the Sawmill is there. Does this mean the big L has dropped plans for production?)))** Hmmmm.....the only piece of American Flyer I found in the whole catalog, was the sawmill. What does it all mean?? Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14488	From: Rick Evans	Date: 8/21/2001
Subject: Ebay's "S" scale..........

Gee,....Don't rush to take a look!! No items on auction!! Rick. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14489	From: Michael Greene	Date: 8/21/2001
Subject: New Haven, CT Train Show Pictures

This past weekend the Bristol Club once again took its modular layout to the All Gauge Train Show in New Haven, CT. It seemed that everyone had a good time. Despite being an "all gauge show", it clearly has a heavy S presence. In addition to our layout, the Connecticut S Gaugers were also there with their modular layout. There was an NASG information table, and there were a good number of S dealers at show... There are a few pictures from our club's participation at the show on the Bristol Club web site. If you're interested, go to the home page at: http://www.bristol-s-gauge.com and either choose it from Highlights on the home page, or select Shows on the left hand menu and navigate to it. Enjoy! Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14490	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 8/21/2001
Subject: A.C. GILBERT FACTORY TOUR

A great big thank you to John & Robin Vanacore for the 6th annual Gilbert Factory Tour on August 18th, 2001. You may view pictures at: http://www.geocities.com/glenn_ritter/index.html go to "A.C. Gilbert Factory Tour" We arrived shortly before 10:00am and were warmly greeted by Robin Vanacore. Those of us that had displays were directed to our tables. I had brought a K 5210 W set that was shipped from New Haven in 1952 to my Uncle Bud who owned Sattler's Trains and Hobbies in Westmont, NJ. At 10:30 Steve Ebinger, who returned this year, led us through the factory and explained the history of the A.C. Gilbert Company from Mysto Magic sets in 1909, Erector sets in 1915 and American Flyer Trains in 1938. Three former employees joined us for the tour and gave insights of how they enjoyed working for A.C. Gilbert. The growth of the factory building was also explained. Gilbert had bought this site in 1915. It had been a munitions company at the turn of the century. Gilbert made many additions over the years through World War II. We were able to visit most areas of the buildings including A.C. Gilbert's office and the roof top offices known as "Dog Houses". Also the secret research laboratory was at the Dog House level. Through the dust of 35 years we could still sense the glory that once was A.C. Gilbert's Heritage. We had a delicious buffet lunch and saw many of A.C. Gilbert's products. A history in detail was given by John Vanacore and friend. The building is for sale if you would like to make part of it a Gilbert museum and rent out the rest. There are some tenants already. I hope you enjoy the website picture tour. Staying on the NPSG branchline of NASG track, Glenn [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14491	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 8/21/2001
Subject: New Haven train show

I was at the New Haven show sunday, and greatly enjoyed the modular layouts of the Bristol club and the CT S Gaugers. Thanks, guys! Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14492	From: Rick Evans	Date: 8/21/2001
Subject: Ebay's "S" scale.....

Well,.....No longer a big "goose" egg,.....30 items up for auction now at the S Scale site @ ebay!! Rick. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14493	From: David Garber	Date: 8/21/2001
Subject: ebays S scale site

I ihav won 2 auctions at this site.things take time the sleeping pill is starting to work nite; Dave1:46 on the east coast

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14494	From: Mark Preman	Date: 8/22/2001
Subject: The Long Awaited TM Video Volume 2

It's in! "AMERICAN FLYER 2" is out at a retail price of $19.95 plus $4 S&H. My price is $18 POSTPAID in the continental US. Don't look for it on the website yet as I haven't had a chance to even put it up. (Still in the shipping box in the garage). Mark ===== Mark B. Preman AmericanFlyerTrains.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14495	From: ALLAN V EISENHAUR	Date: 8/22/2001
Subject: Items For Sale

Hi All I have been culling out some American Flyer items & projects. I have to many and not enough time. I plan to put these on ebay, but I thought I would offer them to the members on the list first. I have described each item with as much info as I can so everyone knows what they will get if purchased. There are10 items which include 3- 21004's, 21155, 314AW, 355, 8551 and some Alco shells. Anyone interested email me and I would happy to email you a detailed list. Thanks AL [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14496	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 8/22/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Digest Number 917

In a message dated 08/22/2001 2:45:35 AM Mountain Daylight Time, S-Scale@yahoogroups.com writes: > Subject: Re: S-Video Vol. II > > Hi Steve, > Can you give us a hint about what is on Vol.II. I liked Vol.I and > am > waiting to see more of Jess Bennett's layout on Vol.III, but can't remember > if you told us about Vol.II yet. > Thanks. > Bob > > > Per my reply to Bob, Volume II features six different layouts and two collections. It is titled "The Utah-Ohio Connection." There is a short trailer of portions of "Jess Bennett revisited," from Vol. III. The total run time is 90 min. Vol. III will feature Jess Bennett as previously stated along with The NASG Steamtown convention just completed. There will also be a DCC layout construction project from bare walls to operational. Regards to all....Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14497	From: howard sheffield	Date: 8/22/2001
Subject: Shows

Hello all. I am making a new layout table 5'x8'for shows coming up. Also to take to other clubs and events to show off S. I would like to know what height any of you have found best for the general public's veiwing taking in consideration the kids that have been mentioned on this list as playing with the accessories on the layouts. Do you have any particular items or information that people went for more than other things. Thanks for any help given. Howard Sheffield Howard' S Trains _______________________________________________________________________ Free Domain Name Registration with Web Hosting at Lanset Communications. 56k Dialup, Web Design, and Colocation at http://www.lanset.net

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14498	From: The Reis's	Date: 8/22/2001
Subject: Items listed on EBAY

I have just listed the following 2 items on EBAY if anyone is interested: Greenberg American Flyer factory manual. This is the white hardbound 700 page version Greenberg American Flyer Volume 2. This is the one with all the set information. Both are like new: Ebay numbers are 1630304329 and 1630308468 or you can search with �Greenberg American flyer� Thanks; Eric Reis Kenmore, Wa. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14499	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 8/23/2001
Subject: Re: Shows

Hi Howard, I used folding table legs which gave my portable layout a height of 30 inches. I found it was absolutely perfect for the kids to see and play with all the buttons on the sides for the accessories. I posted some pictures of my portable layout at the s-trains site. If you can't get to the site, I would be glad to send them to you. Chris Burger [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14500	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 8/23/2001
Subject: AF video II

From toytrains group list Message: 16 Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 18:26:40 -0400 From: "L. Andrew Jugle" <lajugle@... </cgi-bin/compose?curmbox=F000000001&a=a49a64f161b33e7a733af019ba03322e&mail to=1&to=lajugle@...&msg=MSG998564177.42&start=1543810&len=26447&src =&type=x>> Subject: Need an "S-Gauge" video fix??? Just finished review of new McComas "American Flyer 2" video. See it all!! Every accessory and some they SHOULD have made using Erector parts. Mike Kolosseus had this wonderful layout that is now being replaced and we are fortunate to have it frozen in time via video tape. The Everett, WA, layout is 100 per cent Gilbert. Also on tape are S gauge layouts of Ed "Trees" Fialkowski in Illinois and Terry "Mr 56" Dyer of almost Wisconson. Both Hi-rail toy train layouts are in the classic tradition of "Where do we put the farm?". Great tape, fabulous sequel to "McGooey and Twoey" Bruce Manson layout tape! I'm sure the tapes will be at York!!! L.A. Jugle, Elmhurst, IL [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14501	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 8/23/2001
Subject: B&O Museum Celebrations 2002-2003

More info on the B&O Museum's plans: B&O Railroad Museum's Calendar of Events 2002-2003 Ambassador's of Service February 16, 2002 A day long educational program featuring the museum's ongoing series teaching the traditions and role of African-American railroad employees at work and in society. Lectures, special tours and programs presented by retired railroad employees. Founders of American Railroading February 28, 2002 The Smithsonian's National Portrait Gallery comes to the B&O Railroad Museum with a premier exhibition featuring paintings, drawings and images of important American railroad figures from the Smithsonian's collection. Through July 2003. Founder's Weekend at the B&O Railroad Museum March 2-3, 2002 A huge public kick off event for the 16-month program 175 Years: America on Track. This weekend celebrates the birth of railroading in America and Baltimore and its genesis across the nation. Women on the Railroad March 23-24, 2002 A weekend educational program featuring the museum's ongoing series highlighting women and the railroad from early 19th century through the present day. Women's various roles as passengers, operating workers, stewardesses and employees and their impact on the industry and society is explored. It's About Time April 6-7, 2002 This weekend program highlights the railroad's role in standardizing time as well as the impact that the railroad had on the clock and watch industry in America. Visitors may bring old clocks and watches for evaluation by experts. Society in Motion I April 20-21, 2002 The weekend debut of this ongoing educational program featuring how passenger and freight trains forever altered American society and culture. All Aboard Days May 18-19, 2002 A wonderful weekend of train rides behind classic steam and diesel locomotives. Special tours, family activities, fun and food. Round-trip train rides between Carroll Park and the B&O Railroad Museum. 150th Anniversary of Western Maryland Railroad July 13, 2002 The B&O Railroad Museum celebrates the landmark anniversary of one of the regions most historic and best loved railroads, The Western Maryland. Train rides feature historic locomotives and rolling stock from this railroad. I've Been Working on the Railroad August 17-18, 2002 The weekend debut of this ongoing educational program highlighting the diversity, role and importance of the people who built the railroad and made it run. All Aboard Days: "Re-Inventing The Wheel" September 21-22, 2002 The weekend debut of this ongoing educational program highlighting the use of cutting edge systems and the present and future of railroad technology. Train rides will be offered all weekend between the B&O Railroad Museum and Carroll Park. Private Palaces on the Rails October 9-13, 2002 The 25th anniversary convention of the American Association of Private Rail Car Owners will bring approximately 25 magnificent and historic privately owned palace and passenger cars to the B&O Railroad Museum. Fall Foliage Excursion October 26, 2002 The B&O Railroad Museum in conjunction with MARC Train Service and CSX will offer an excursion across historic rails from Baltimore's Camden Station to a location to be determined. Inner Harbor Train Show November 2, 2002 The B&O Railroad Museum's historic roundhouse will be filled with model train hobbyists offering models of every gauge and type for sale or trade. Holiday Traditions at the B&O Railroad Museum November 29-31, 2002 The three day kick off of the B&O Railroad Museum's winter holiday celebration featuring traditional model train gardens. Holiday Traditions at the B&O Railroad Museum December 1-30, 2002 A month long celebration of model railroading in America. Operating model train layouts and holiday gardens. Museum closed Christmas Eve, Christmas Day, New Year's Eve and New Year's Day. Locomotion January 25-26, 2003 The weekend debut of this ongoing education program teaching how things move, from real horsepower to steam, diesel, electric and magnetic levitation concepts. Ambassadors of Service February 8, 2003 A day long program highlighting the Museum's ongoing series featuring the role of African-Americans on the rails. Lectures, special tours and programs offered by retired railroad employees. 50 Years on Track February 27 - March 3, 2003 Five days of celebration commemorating the 50th Anniversary of the B&O Railroad Museum. Special programs, family activities and artifacts from the Museum's first 50 years. Women at Work on the Railroad March 15, 2003 A day long educational program featuring the groundbreaking roles of women working in the railroad industry from World War I through the present day. Society in Motion II April 26-27, 2003 The B&O Railroad Museum unveils its new interpretive exhibits for the Museum's unparalleled roster of historic locomotives and rolling stock. The Fair of the Iron Horse 175 June 27-July 6, 2003 A 10 day festival and pageant to be held throughout the B&O Railroad Museum's 40-acre campus and in Baltimore City's Carroll Park. The festival features pavilions of model railroading, rail travel, railroad history and technology. Each day a parade of historic locomotives from all over America and the world will tell the saga of American railroading from the beginning to present day. Live entertainment, train rides, food and activities for adults, seniors, families and children. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14502	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 8/23/2001
Subject: Layout Height

Howard Sheffield wrote: I would like to know what height any of you have found best for the general public's viewing. >>> Howard, the Rocky Mountain Hi-Railers originally constructed Lookout Junction at a height of 42". However, we decided that was just too high for small people, so we cut 6" off our folding legs to make it 36". That seems to work well for our audiences. Most kids can push our buttons. Children shorter than that usually need to have a parent lift them up, which is good for us, too. We have no barriers around our layout, and kids under 3 feet tall are generally too young to be crowding up by themselves and possibly interfering with trains as they pass by. By holding them, mom or dad are available to prevent any potential mishaps. Another reason why we don't want less than a 36" height is that it's just easier for some of us old guys to crawl around under the layout during setup. At 5' x 8' for your layout, though, that may not be a factor (our layout is 525 square feet). >>> Do you have any particular items or information that people went for more than other things? >>> While our trains are the stars of Lookout Junction, the operating accessories are what keep the people hanging around. I think most clubs will agree that anything that moves and performs will be a hit. Our most popular: --Mailbag pickup stand w/918 mail car. Enlist the audience to catch the bags for you. They'll stand around all day to watch it over and over. --Stockyard. We leave the cows running around throughout the show (reduced voltage on separate transformer). --Log loader. --Barrel loader. --Bell danger signal. --Whistles and horns with audience-operated buttons. We're adding Gabe, the Sawmill, and Coal Loader, and I'm sure they'll be successful. We've even had a 6-foot-high Erector parachute drop which was a show-stopper, but the young man who made it every year is off to college soon. Any lights are good, including bubbling towers and beacons. At a show several years ago, someone inadvertently killed all the overhead lights in the hall, and, for a while, ours was the only layout of 11 that you could see. It was gorgeous! We always have a literature table, and NASG is very good about furnishing all kinds of stuff. The most popular is the Dispatch, which always goes quickly. We also have a flyer and a sign-up sheet for our club. Your compatriot in this project, David Dewey, will be able to see Lookout Junction when he visits our club next month. Ask him for a full report. Hope this helps. YourS, John Eichmann, Coordinator Rocky Mountain Hi-Railers Boise

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14503	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 8/23/2001
Subject: Re: Layout Height

We have our S modules at std. 42" height. Nice for us geezers to duck under, but small kids need to stand on a chair or be lifted by an adult to see anything. That's why we have a small layout with accessories that kids can use. It is about 36" x 48" with 15" radius pikemaster track and 1 switch to a siding. It sits on a standard table, 30" tall, same as used for the trains for sale, and the smaller kids love it. We have a smoking 307, rocket car and log car, action caboose, Marx barrel loader, and a kline diesel refueling station with buttons for them to operate. Always draws a crowd. JOHN EICHMANN wrote: > > Howard Sheffield wrote: > I would like to know what height any of you have found best for the general public's viewing. > >>> > > Howard, the Rocky Mountain Hi-Railers originally constructed Lookout Junction at a height of 42". However, we decided that was just too high for small people, so we cut 6" off our folding legs to make it 36". That seems to work well for our audiences. Most kids can push our buttons. > > Children shorter than that usually need to have a parent lift them up, which is good for us, too. We have no barriers around our layout, and kids under 3 feet tall are generally too young to be crowding up by themselves and possibly interfering with trains as they pass by. By holding them, mom or dad are available to prevent any potential mishaps. > > Another reason why we don't want less than a 36" height is that it's just easier for some of us old guys to crawl around under the layout during setup. At 5' x 8' for your layout, though, that may not be a factor (our layout is 525 square feet). > > >>> > Do you have any particular items or information that people went for more than other things? > >>> > > While our trains are the stars of Lookout Junction, the operating accessories are what keep the people hanging around. I think most clubs will agree that anything that moves and performs will be a hit. Our most popular: > --Mailbag pickup stand w/918 mail car. Enlist the audience to catch the bags for you. They'll stand around all day to watch it over and over. > --Stockyard. We leave the cows running around throughout the show (reduced voltage on separate transformer). > --Log loader. > --Barrel loader. > --Bell danger signal. > --Whistles and horns with audience-operated buttons. > We're adding Gabe, the Sawmill, and Coal Loader, and I'm sure they'll be successful. We've even had a 6-foot-high Erector parachute drop which was a show-stopper, but the young man who made it every year is off to college soon. > > Any lights are good, including bubbling towers and beacons. At a show several years ago, someone inadvertently killed all the overhead lights in the hall, and, for a while, ours was the only layout of 11 that you could see. It was gorgeous! > > We always have a literature table, and NASG is very good about furnishing all kinds of stuff. The most popular is the Dispatch, which always goes quickly. We also have a flyer and a sign-up sheet for our club. > > Your compatriot in this project, David Dewey, will be able to see Lookout Junction when he visits our club next month. Ask him for a full report. Hope this helps. > > YourS, > John Eichmann, Coordinator > Rocky Mountain Hi-Railers > Boise > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14504	From: jseltzer@larich.com	Date: 8/23/2001
Subject: Train Show Sunday August 26 Parma Ohio (Cleveland Area)

The Cuyahoga Valley S Gauge Association is hosting an All Gauge Train Show at the UAW Hall 5615 Chevrolet Blvd., Parma, Ohio from 10am to 3pm. There will be aprox 150 Tables (tables are sold out) and our S gauge code 140 HiRail layout in operation. For more information contact Lee McCarty, 440-526-9864. All S gaugers (and everyone) are invited. Josh Seltzer

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14505	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 8/24/2001
Subject: Halloween Tree - available online

The online 'Wireless' gift catalog includes a Halloween tree and ornaments. This is just the sort of thing that has been mentioned on this list in the past. It looks pretty cool and would be a great excuse to break out the holliday trains a couple months early. http://www.giftcatalog.com/common/catalog/product.jhtml?navAction=jump&navCount=0&prodid=89228&_requestid=204295 or http://www.giftcatalog.com/ product 203306 ===== Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com Photography - Computers - Trains __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14506	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 8/24/2001
Subject: TM's "AF2" - A review

The latest video from TM Books and Video, “American Flyer 2”, is a study in contrasts. Three great S gauge layouts, which span the spectrum from the purest-of-the-pure Gilbert to fanciful holiday offerings, are presented for our enjoyment. The video starts with the fabulous Mike Kolosseus layout, which was built upon the philosophy that less is more. The scenery is rather stark along the lines of a desert in the American southwest, but this backdrop permits the gorgeous, smooth running, colorful trains to be seen to excellent advantage. The layout was built using only Gilbert products available in the 1940s, 50s, and 60s. Those of you who can grab a hold of a copy of “Great Toy Train Layouts” by Tom McComas and James Touhy can glimpse the radical and striking style of Mike’s Brantford and Western RR. The most impressive feature of the layout is the wide array of one-of-a-kind accessories built exclusively with Erector parts. Fascinating to watch, the accessories include a unique oil drum loader, two different magnetic cranes, a milk can loader with a two chain drive conveyors, a clever pipe loader, a log loader, a neat variation on the theme of the Lionel No. 97 coal loader, a turntable, and (way, way ahead of the new Lionel catalog) a rotary dump for hopper cars. The Kolosseus layout is followed by a mid-1960s vintage TV ad for Gilbert All Aboard sets. These sets had the unique feature of providing scenic panels complete with track and wiring which permitted a youngster to assemble a complete railroad literally in minutes. Shifting gears, the next layout on the tour is one built by Ed Fialkowski. His vision was a pike that would be entertaining for kids (of all ages) based on the extensive use of Dept. 56 buildings. Six trains and a trolley operate simultaneously. The felicitous combination of S gauge trains and Dept. 56 buildings comes off very well because these ceramic buildings are much closer in scale to S than to O. Ed operates vintage Gilbert Flyer, ‘Flyonel’, American Models and S Helper Service S gauge trains. During the visit with Ed, a comparison is made that will probably start a few arguments. The sound of a vintage Gilbert K335 Northern with mechanically synchronized smoke and choo-choo is pitted against a MTH GS-4 with ProtoSounds and a Lionel Commodore Vanderbilt with RailSounds 2. The 49 year old Gilbert steamer gets the nod from this, admittedly, biased listener -- but no matter how you vote, oh gentle reader, which engine do you think will sound best 50 years from now? The third layout on the tour is an homage to 1950s Christmases by Terry Dyer. Wide use of Plasticville buildings and accessories provide a vintage display of Gilbert and Lionel American Flyer S gauge trains. Toy train fans of all stripes will greatly appreciate the Kolosseus layout being preserved for posterity. Mike has since torn down the layout shown in the video and he is in the process of building a new one that will incorporate all that was learned in constructing and operating the one depicted. The Failowski and Dyer layouts are the products of creative thinking and are beautiful in the classic tinplate manner. These pikes will give viewers some great ideas for the holidays regardless of the flavor of trains in which they indulge. A few minor factual lapses do not detract from the fun. Available from TM Books and Video or from better toy train emporiums for $19.95. Highly recommended. Oh, and if you like “AF2”, try out “Part One, Fun and Thrills with American Flyer S Gauge”. Bob Bubeck

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14507	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 8/24/2001
Subject: Train Tracker - A "switch"

While I am in a 'blatant advertisement' mode, there is another commercial item that might be of interest to this board. For a number of years BangZoom Software has been marketing a train collection data base program called "TrainTracker". Early this fall, BangZoom will be introducing an all new version of their program. As part of the effort behind the new program, BangZoom has signed an agreement with TM Books and Video to provide the listings files, including price and rarity, for the program. Consequently, the American Flyer data will be that from TM's "American Flyer S Gauge Illustrated Price Guide and History". The few various typos in the book were fixed, some pricing has been updated, and reader feedback were all accounted for in a modest update for the new program. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14508	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 8/24/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, August 26, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14509	From: Tim Brown	Date: 8/24/2001
Subject: Train Show

Hey guys, Isn't there a train show scheduled for Saturday (08/24/01) in Gettysburg. I think I saw it on Paul's page, but the link is broken right now. Is the show still on and where/when? Thanks and hope to see you there (if there is one), Tim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14510	From: alorince@yahoo.com	Date: 8/24/2001
Subject: Re: Train Show

The Great scale train show is in gettysburg pa aug 25 9 to 4 and sunday aug 26 10-4. more information at www.GSMTS.com i will have my american models at parma on aug 26. andy lorince --- In S-Trains@y..., "Tim Brown" <Timboy@a...> wrote: > Hey guys, > Isn't there a train show scheduled for Saturday (08/24/01) in Gettysburg. I think I saw it on Paul's page, but the link is broken right now. Is the show still on and where/when? > Thanks and hope to see you there (if there is one), > Tim > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14511	From: Clifford Manning	Date: 8/25/2001
Subject: repair

am looking for repair plans/ manuals for an Electro Magnetic Crane 583A and a 742 Hand Car. Both need work to be restored. Missing at least one part on each. I also am looking for 2 metal frames to rebuild 2 Silver Bullet passenger cars. Cast frames will do even though the sheet metal frames were original. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14512	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 8/25/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1123

In a message dated 08/25/2001 3:49:42 AM Mountain Daylight Time, S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes: > Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:53:45 EDT > From: rbubeck327@... > Subject: TM's "AF2" - A review > > The latest video from TM Books and Video, “American Flyer 2”, is a study > in > contrasts. Three great S gauge layouts, which span the spectrum from the > purest-of-the-pure Gilbert to fanciful holiday offerings, are presented for > our enjoyment. Thanks for the review Bob. It gives me a lead in to remind everyone that my own "S-Gauge Model Railroading" Vol. II will begin shipping on Monday Aug. 27. It features SIX layouts and two collection reviews. It runs for 90 minutes and sells for $13 ppd. Steve Blackburn, TCA, NASG, RMHR > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14513	From: Bill Lane	Date: 8/25/2001
Subject: plea for more decals

Hi All, This is what seems to be Bill's weekly plea for unavailable decals. This week's selection is the Jones & Laughlin tank car. If you have set or 2 that you could part with I would appreciate it. Even if you have a set or 1 complete sheet that you don't want to sell, I would like to borrow it since it would be real easy to copy. BTW, it is not even for me. My car is done. It is for Dan, so you would be helping him out. You all probably like Dan better then me anyway :) Thanks Bill

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14514	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 8/25/2001
Subject: Scale on ebay

S scale is over 50 now and climbing.I just listed a few very unusual items. Keith _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14515	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 8/25/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1123

In a message dated 8/25/01 11:59:10 AM, boss31@... writes: << Thanks for the review Bob. It gives me a lead in to remind everyone that my own "S-Gauge Model Railroading" Vol. II will begin shipping on Monday Aug. 27 >> Good for you! The more videos of S gauge, the better. Maybe, one should buy one of each. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14516	From: Dick Kuepper	Date: 8/25/2001
Subject: Layout Ideas

I'm probably being blasphemous, but I get as many good ideas for lyouts/ideas/scenery/etc from G/O/HO/N gauge publications as I do from S - ideas are ideas! I subscribe to CTT. O' Guage RRg, MRR, Dispatch, NMRA - they're ALL helpful, and, more importantly, fun reading to see what others are doing, no matter what the scale. So what if they're slanted! Can't we all just have fun? Dick [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14517	From: Rick Evans	Date: 8/25/2001
Subject: To the Sunday night chat crew.......

Might not make it to chat,...taking a short Amtrak trip over the infamous Cuesta Grade here on the Central Coast of California. The tracks run under Highway 101 on the North side of the grade, and while the highway runs south down into San Luis Obispo on one side of the mountains, across the canyon the tracks run along the mountain range through a few tunnels and then winds it's way down around the back side of the range, and finally into SLO. To drive from Paso Robles to SLO (which is our train route) takes maybe.... ...a little over 1/2 an hour,...about 30 miles or so....but due to the snaking around on the west side of the grade, into SLO,...quite a few more miles are added on,...and time!! Taking a friend and our two daughters. Her daughter just turned four the other day, and mine just turned six today (Sat.). I have lived here all my life (so far!)...46 years, and have never made the trip!! We adults are more excited then the girls I think!! Have a good chat! Might catch the tail end of it. Rick. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14518	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 8/26/2001
Subject: Smoke Units

Hi S Guys, need a litle help in locating a source for a type of smoke unit to use in Ceramic houses such as Dept 56. I need to get some smoking chimneys on the displays.I do appreciate any and all ideas. Even making something homemade!? THanks Chris B. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14519	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 8/26/2001
Subject: Re: Layout Ideas

I agree. Model Railroading is fun at any age for any size train. We just need to promote S to gain more products in 1/64th scale. I just bought a Hot Wheels "Low Rider". It's a chopped, nosed and decked 1948 Ford coupe just like my first car. It does not say American Flyer on it. Belfry Station, Glenn Visit my personal website at: http://www.geocities.com/glenn_ritter/index.html Go to "My Model Railroad". National Association of S Gaugers at: http://www.nasg.org North Penn S Gaugers (local Club) at: http://npsg3.homestead.com/files/npsgi.htm Dick Kuepper wrote: I'm probably being blasphemous, but I get as many good ideas for layouts/ideas/scenery/etc from G/O/HO/N gauge publications as I do from S - ideas are ideas! I subscribe to CTT. O' Guage RRg, MRR, Dispatch, NMRA - they're ALL helpful, and, more importantly, fun reading to see what others are doing, no matter what the scale. So what if they're slanted! Can't we all just have fun? Dick

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14520	From: David	Date: 8/26/2001
Subject: Re: Smoke Units

Most modelers use Seuth smoke units. These are available in a variety of sizes from HO to G scale, are easy to install into structures, and require little voltage. They are available from any well stocked hobby or train shop, or thru Walthers. You might want to try Port Lines Hobby Supply. Doug posts here occasionally under "Peck". He may have what you need in stock.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14521	From: Eugene Steffan	Date: 8/26/2001
Subject: Re: Scale on ebay

Hi: Can someone provide a link to the eBay "S Scale" listings. I've tried to find it but have so far been unsuccessful. Thanks. Gene Keith Kuzma wrote: > S scale is over 50 now and climbing.I just listed a few very unusual items. > > Keith > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14522	From: Jim Carnes	Date: 8/26/2001
Subject: [Re: [S-Trains] Scale on ebay]

Try: http://listings.ebay.com/aw/listings/list/all/category16509/index.html or navigate the category links from the ebay home page with the following: Top > Hobbies & Crafts > Model RR, Trains > Scales > S Jim Eugene Steffan wrote: > Hi: > Can someone provide a link to the eBay "S Scale" listings. I've tried to find it but > have so far been unsuccessful. Thanks. > Gene > > Keith Kuzma wrote: > > > S scale is over 50 now and climbing.I just listed a few very unusual items. > > > > Keith > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14523	From: Mark Preman	Date: 8/26/2001
Subject: AF Video #2 and O Gauge Flyer

The new TM video is up on the home page and I picked up some sweet AF O gauge stuff for you collectors-look for the "PREWAR" button. Mark Click on this: http://www.americanflyertrains.com ===== Mark B. Preman AmericanFlyerTrains.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14524	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 8/26/2001
Subject: S Video Series from Steve Blackburn

Last week I sent the video footage that I shot at the convention to Steve Blackburn, to be included in his next video. Steve Blackburn 3239 Pepperwood Dr. Boise, Idaho 83704 Steve is doing an outstanding job of compiling video of 'S' from all over the country. He is doing this in a professional manner and not making any money for his effort. I STRONGLY recommend that you purchase a copy of his video ($13 pp) and also consider sending him your 'S' video. And if you are considering shooting some video to be included in a future compilation, Steve is happy to give you some helpful tips on shooting technique. In my opinion, when someone like Steve comes forward and is willing to do a job like this, we should support him. PS. Buy an extra copy for your local Library or Club Paul Yorke __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14525	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/26/2001
Subject: (Paul's posting) S Video Series from Steve Blackburn

"Dittos" from me too. Besides, Steve's a nice guy! I thinks S is hogging all the good guys/gals, no wonder it's so much fun! David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14526	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/26/2001
Subject: Had a great visit & plans for more!

Hi all, Last week Bill Tefts came out west for a piano technician's training session and we got together one evening over dinner and ice cream (of course!). Neither of us got to sleep before midnite (hmm, like 2AM his time) because we had so much fun talking about almost everything. (We are both piano technicians, S gaugers, and old car "nuts") I'm just now catching up on stuff (work, work, work!) and had to post y'all to tell you that as much fun as everyone is on the web, so far they're just as much, or more, in person! I hope Bill didn't sleep through his classes the next day! We are planning on vacationing in the Boise area next month, and boy, am I looking forward to meeting all the neat S people up there (and all the museums, kinda a "busman's holiday" I guess). Now if I can just keep the cars running until after the vacation. . . S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14527	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 8/26/2001
Subject: Re: Smoke Units

Chris B. asks: >need a litle help in locating a source for a type of smoke unit to >use in Ceramic houses such as Dept 56. Why not buy the Dept. 56 unit? Several 56 houses have smoking chimneys built in and I believe there is a kit that you can buy. Also, other ceramic house companies that sell their wares in seasonal stores also have smoker kits. You might have to wait until the holiday season to find those. The stores are probably still selling lawn furniture and above-ground pools. Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14528	From: Robert W. Jackson	Date: 8/26/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Had a great visit & plans for more!

David Dewey wrote: > We are both piano technicians, S gaugers, and old car "nuts" I get the bit about S gaugers, and probably get the bit about piano technicians, but is an old car nut the same as a lug nut? Bob Jackson

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14529	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 8/26/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, August 26, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14530	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/26/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Had a great visit & plans for more!

Hmm, Well, I dunno, but I suspect both our spouses think we're SOME kind of "nuts" :-) S' David D. PS Hmm, am I a Lug Nut when I'm carrying the latest "find" from the meet to the car?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14531	From: Rick Evans	Date: 8/26/2001
Subject: Re: Smoke Units

**(((You might have to wait until the holiday season to find those. The stores are probably still selling lawn furniture and above-ground pools.)))** Nope,...at out Target, that has all been replaced with school supplies!! Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14532	From: Robert W. Jackson	Date: 8/26/2001
Subject: Re: Lug Nuts

David Dewey wrote: > Hmm, Well, I dunno, but I suspect both our spouses think we're SOME kind of > "nuts" > :-) > S' > David D. > PS Hmm, am I a Lug Nut when I'm carrying the latest "find" from the meet to > the car? Naw, then you are just a big goofy S gauge lug. A lug nut is a rounded nut that covers the end of bolt such as is used to hold automobile wheels in place (just playin' with words again.) How would you simulate them on S scale automobiles, especially the decorative kind that are prominently visible? Bob Jackson

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14533	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/27/2001
Subject: Re: Smoke Units

Your Target store is slow, by next week the local WalMart will have the animated Christmas large decorations out in Garden Dept. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14534	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 8/27/2001
Subject: Re: Had a great visit & plans for more!

When the piano bar became a sushi bar, all they served was tuna. CZ

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14535	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 8/27/2001
Subject: Security & Virus reminder

Just a reminder: Don't open any attachments from anyone unless you know exactly what it is. I don't care if it is from your most trusted friend. The notes that come with infected files are designed to make you think that your buddy is sending you something. This may be the case, but I suggest you send a note to your buddy and ask them. "Did you send me an attachment?" If you do not know how to turn off your auto-open function, I suggest you find out or change to another mail product. Yahoo (web based) mail is free and includes a Norton anti-virus filter. You can check files while they are still on Yahoo's mail server. Yahoo can also check your Earthlink (or other) mail too. Don't become a victim! ===== Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com Photography - Computers - Trains __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14536	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 8/27/2001
Subject: Passenger car bulbs

Lionel AF streamlined passenger cars bulbs are part number (6)00-0057-300 (14-volt bayonet type bulbs). When I removed bulbs some from cars from different sets, I found the bulbs marked GE 57, without any voltage rating. In my one of my spare parts bins I have similar bayonet based bulbs marked 57, 12v. Are they the same thing? Should I not use them (too much heat, possible melting, or early burn out)? Or are the OK? Should I look for 14v b-based bulbs specifically under the L-P/N, or #431, or AF#454? I think at some time I asked a bulb vendor at York for spare Lionel passenger car bulbs and they sold me the 57's, but at the time I wasn't aware of the 12v vs 14v difference. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14537	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 8/27/2001
Subject: AM Streamline K4 in CTT

Hello Boys, Got the October CTT in the mail today, and the American Models Streamlined K4 got a real good review. And it was the lead review, too! Be seeing you... Rich G. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14538	From: Rick Evans	Date: 8/27/2001
Subject: Re: Passenger car bulbs

Everyone please correct me if I'm wrong! Just survived two birthday parties for my six year old! I believe the 12 volt are for the loco headlight and 14 volt for the coaches. Or do I have it bass-akwards again?? Rick "pass me more cake and earplugs" Evans

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14539	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 8/28/2001
Subject: L-AF passenger car bulbs

Lionel AF streamlined passenger car replacement bulbs are supposed to be part number (6)00-0057-300 (14-volt bayonet base bulbs). Bulbs from such cars, however, are marked GE 57, without any voltage rating. I have some similar bayonet-based bulbs marked 57, 12v. Are they the same thing? Should I use them, or will they create too much heat, possibly melt a car's body, or burn out early? Should I instead look for 14v bayonet-based bulbs, specifically the L-P/N, or #431, or AF#454? I think at one time I asked a bulb vendor at York for spare Lionel passenger car bulbs and they sold me the 57's, but at the time I wasn't aware of the 12v vs 14v difference. Thanks in advance for your help. PS Sorry about the first posting. Got scrambled. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14540	From: Bob	Date: 8/28/2001
Subject: Hershey Park.....

Dear Group, My family and I will be going to Hershey Pak ,PA. this holiday weekend and I was just wondering how far away is Hershey Park from the Toy Train Museam in PA. ?? Also I seem to remember that one of our S-Groups members live out that way,but I can't remember his name......Bill? Please let me know.......Bob S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14541	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 8/28/2001
Subject: Re: Hershey Park.....

Hi Bob, Hershey Park is about 30 minutes from Strasburg and the TCA museum. If you have a map locate the intersection of Route 30 and 896. All the railroading you want is withing 15 minutes of that intersection. The Red Caboose Motel, Choo Choo Barn, Bob Board"s "All Aboard American Flyer Layout", Strasburg Railroad, Pennsylvania Railroad Museum. Bill Fraley lives near Hershey. Glenn Bob wrote: Dear Group, My family and I will be going to Hershey Pak ,PA. this holiday weekend and I was just wondering how far away is Hershey Park from the Toy Train Museam in PA. ?? Also I seem to remember that one of our S-Groups members live out that way,but I can't remember his name......Bill? Please let me know.......Bob S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14542	From: Doug Peck	Date: 8/28/2001
Subject: Re: AM Hvyweight trucks

I checked the "archives" and couldn't find a reference to this topic, but I know it has come up here in the past. Who has found a solution(s) to the frequent derailment of the AM hvyweight passenger car trucks???? Particularly the 6-wheel trucks, and particularly---though not exclusively--- on curves. I've tried all the tips on the AM "Troubleshooting" site, without success. Doug

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14543	From: Scott Holm	Date: 8/28/2001
Subject: Re: AM Hvyweight trucks

When doing searches in a yahoo group archive it only searches some of the messages. There is a NEXT button to search further back in the archives. doing this while searching for AM heavyweights yielded a group of messages from 3946-3989, another at 7176-7239, and another 9740-9774 that discussed the AM Heavyweights. One interesting solution in message 3989 was to remove the inner (not middle) set of axles from the trucks. Don Thompson had some suggestions in msg 9767. --- Doug Peck <portlines@...> wrote: > I checked the "archives" and couldn't find a reference to this topic, > but I know it has come up here in the past. Who has found a > solution(s) to the frequent derailment of the AM hvyweight passenger > car trucks???? Particularly the 6-wheel trucks, and > particularly---though not exclusively--- on curves. > I've tried all the tips on the AM "Troubleshooting" site, without > success. > > Doug > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14544	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 8/28/2001
Subject: Re: AM Hvyweight trucks

My solution included: 1) Increase the swing of the couplers by filing the coupler tongue narrower where it passes thru the truck frame. 2) Filing away someof the body centersill where it interfered with the truck. 3) making absolutely sure the axle ends are in the proper holes (easy to miss). 4) I finally added kadees truck mounted on brass strips that replaced the original coupler shanks. This last step was not to improve operation but to get the cars to couple more closely together. One side benefit was that the brass strips could be tweaked sio the couplers never drag on the body when the truck swings. My heavyweights operate on AF curves with no problems. I admit I don't stress them by trying to back over AF radius S curves. (forward is OK). My terminal throat got considerable attention in getting a mix of AF and Gargraves switches located to minimize S turn radii and to sit really level. Backing a train into a train shed turned out to be demanding of track and cars, but careful work paid off. Doug Peck wrote: > > I checked the "archives" and couldn't find a reference to this topic, but I know it has come up here in the past. Who has found a solution(s) to the frequent derailment of the AM hvyweight passenger car trucks???? Particularly the 6-wheel trucks, and particularly---though not exclusively--- on curves. > I've tried all the tips on the AM "Troubleshooting" site, without success. > > Doug > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14545	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 8/28/2001
Subject: Re: AM Hvyweight trucks

Chuck offered several good solutions. Another thing to watch out for is that the coupler support can be warped so that the uncoupler trip (the weight on Gilbert couplers) can fowl with the switches. .....but the REAL solution is for the folks at AM to get off their "youknowwhats" and offer a proper diecast truck, preferably sprung, to retrofit on their heavyweights and use on any new production. Their current trucks have been an absolute embarrassment for ages. While I can hand a Lioneler a Gilbert heavyweight with some pride, I am ashamed to hand one of those AM cars to anyone in the hobby for inspection. Whenever I am remotely tempted to buy anything of AM's, all I have to do is think of their heavyweights and I walk away the richer for it. I trust that I have made myself clear. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14546	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 8/28/2001
Subject: Re: Passenger Car Lamps

David : A #57 lamp is listed as auto and Interment, 14 volt, draws .24 amps, has 2 candle power and a rated average live of 500 hours. It will work OK. On some of my passenger cars I use a 28 volt lamp, they give a worm glow and don't get so hot. For the locomotive headlight A.F. # 440 is now a #1449, also a 14 volt, but it has a screw base. Jerry 77-11644 ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14547	From: loubaldi@aol.com	Date: 8/28/2001
Subject: Re: Passenger car bulbs

Dave, The spec's on a #57 lamp is 14 volt .240 amps see web site below: http://www.topbulb.com/find/prod_list.asp?p=11&intSubCategory=460 you may need to cut paste this into your address box Lou --- In S-Trains@y..., david_horn@b... wrote: > Lionel AF streamlined passenger cars bulbs are part number (6)00- 0057-300 > (14-volt bayonet type bulbs). When I removed bulbs some from cars from > different sets, I found the bulbs marked GE 57, without any voltage rating. > In my one of my spare parts bins I have similar bayonet based bulbs marked > 57, 12v. Are they the same thing? Should I not use them (too much heat, > possible melting, or early burn out)? Or are the OK? Should I look for 14v > b-based bulbs specifically under the L-P/N, or #431, or AF#454? I think at > some time I asked a bulb vendor at York for spare Lionel passenger car bulbs > and they sold me the 57's, but at the time I wasn't aware of the 12v vs 14v > difference. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14548	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 8/28/2001
Subject: AM Streamline K4 in CTT

Hello Boys, Got the October CTT in the mail today, and the American Models Streamlined K4 got a real good review. And it was the lead review, too! Be seeing you... Rich G. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14549	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 8/28/2001
Subject: AM Models Heavyweights

Check www.americanmodels.com/trouble.html#ht. May help solve truck problems. Jim Lyle [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14550	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 8/28/2001
Subject: Re: Hershey Park.....

Bob, Allow 45 min to an hour because of highway construction. From Hershey, take Rt 743 S to Rt 283 E to merge with Rt 30 E into construction. They are SERIOUS about the 40 mph speed limit. Continue on Rt 30 E until you come to Rockvale Square Shopping Center, take extreme Right lane to Rt 896 S. At square in Strasburg, turn left onto Rt 741 E, you will pass Choo-Choo Barn on right, Strasburg RR on left, Railroad Museum of Pa on right. Go to first crossroads, turn left onto Paradise Lane, pass red Caboose Motel on right and the TCA's National Toy Train Museum is on the right. Welcome to Lancaster Co. ENJOY IT ALL!!!! Jim Lyle [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14551	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/28/2001
Subject: Re: Hershey Park.....

Jim, These are all great directions, if *I* ever get there, but one important omission-- WHERE'S THE FUNNEL CAKE booth??? S' David "having a coronary, likely" Dewey

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14552	From: Wayne and Alice Beachy	Date: 8/28/2001
Subject: Atlantic Coast S Gaugers Update

Hi All, Just wanted to let you know I have updated the Atlantic Coast S Gaugers web pages. Be sure to see the new division we will be forming. Check them out at http://sgauge.homestead.com/acsgindex.html Wayne Beachy Atlantic Coast S Gaugers Virginia Central Division [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14553	From: Walt Danylak	Date: 8/29/2001
Subject: AF/Gilbert Meeting at York

Good Morning Group, Does anyone know if there is going to be a AF/Gilbert Meeting on Thursday night before the York TCA Meet in October? Walt

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14554	From: Clay Buckage	Date: 8/29/2001
Subject: Fw: Gilbert Meeting @ York

----- Original Message ----- From: "Clay Buckage" <cbuckage@...> To: "S-Trains" <S-Trains@egroups.com> Cc: "Mark Preman" <amerflyer@...> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 7:23 AM Subject: Gilbert Meeting @ York > Walt and all........ > > There will absolutely be a meeting in October > It will be at the Four Points Sheraton starting around 9:00pm > Thursday night. The Four Points is located off Arsenal Road > behind the 'Round the Clock Diner' > > The meeting is a PERMANENT fixture of York Week, > Will always be held @ the Four Points about 9:00pm > > unfortunately our train activities have been curtailed this > year due to an illness in the family. see below for messages > between myself and others to get the meeting into the meet notice > > Stop by and bring something and/or someone > You may be able to pick up one of those new famous shirts > > thnx > Clay > > > "Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men???" > "The Shadow Knows!" > > Clay Buckage > Dave's Twacks & Twains > Box 388 > Tatamy, Pa. 18085 > clay@... > www.davestnt.com > > Sent to Linda Webber after obtaining the address from Ron Morris > > Linda...... > > pls advise how to get an educational meeting > added to the bulletin > > we have been having a Gilbert meeting similar > to the Marx meeting for the last 3 or 4 Yorks > The meeting is growing but more people need to > know about it in advance. We have been running around > during York week passing out fliers. > > It is at the Four Points Sheraton behind the > Round the Clock Diner off Arsenal Road > 8:30pm Thursday night of every York week > > TCA Members and their guests bring special items, meet new friends > teach & learn about Gilbert history, etc. > Bob Tufts usually attends and helps chair the meeting > > Don Lorance 66-1584 was at the last one > and said he would talk to you or Kathy > However, I have not heard from either one of them > and I don't want to miss the printing date this time > > thnx for your help > Clay > > > Clay Buckage > Dave's Twacks & Twains > Box 388 > Tatamy, Pa. 18085 > clay@... > www.davestnt.com > > ********************************* > HER REPLY > > Dear Clay, > I'm sorry you already missed the printing of the meet notice for October, it has > already been completed. I will glady keep your information for the April Meet. > Either Kathy Stevens or I will get in touch with you before the next printing to > double check times and meeting place. > Thank you > Linda Webber > > ********************************** > We then sent the following message to Nicole Berninger (HQ Editor) > > Nicole > > please take a look at the exchange below between Linda Webber and myself > regarding an educational > activity during York week. Pls advise if there will be another HQ News mailing > before York and whether > we would be able to purchase a 1/2 or full page ad > > THANKS > Clay > > ******************************** > Her reply > > The only newsletter between now & October York is the September issue, which > has already been completed. > > Nicole A. Berninger > Publications Editor/Secretary > hqeditor@... > 717-687-8623 > > ******************************** > > We are now hoping to at least get into Clem's York Primer > > Clem.... > > if it's not too much trouble, we would like a mention > in the york primer > > see below > > thnx > Clay > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14555	From: Doug Peck	Date: 8/29/2001
Subject: Re: Bulbs

<<A #57 lamp is listed as auto and Interment, 14 volt, draws .24 amps, has 2 candle power and a rated average live of 500 hours. It will work OK. On some of my passenger cars I use a 28 volt lamp, they give a worm glow and don't get so hot. For the locomotive headlight A.F. # 440 is now a #1449, also a 14 volt, but it has a screw base. >> I know I have posted this before, but a CAUTION to you all: #1449 IMPORTED bulbs will NOT work in AF engines! They are taller than US-made bulbs. As a result, they will not fit into the boiler front opening when screwed into the boiler-front socket. If used in diesels, they get a bit closer to the plastic shell. Since they are 14v bulbs, they are hot to begin with..... move them closer to the shell and you are asking for damage! Use ONLY US-made 1449 bulbs (the only ones we carry, BTW). Yes, they cost a bit more than imported bulbs, but at least they fit properly! #432 bulbs are usually used in pass. Cars and cabeese....an 18 volt clear bulb. Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14556	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 8/29/2001
Subject: 57

Thanks for all the scoop on #57 bulbs. Based on that I feel OK about using the ones I have, but isn't it odd they're clearing marked 12v? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14557	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 8/29/2001
Subject: Hershey

You also won't be very far from the Wannamaker, Kempton & Southern steam train ride (610) 756-6469. Call for an address and schedule, then try Yahoo, or MSN's Map/Direction aids on the web to get there. Its not on the scale of the steam rides at Cumberland or Strasburg, but it is a lot of fun. Usually a little 0-6-0 tank engine pulls a train of three or four cars through some pretty PA countryside (lots of PA is scenic) along what we used to call Maiden Creek. The best part is they many times have an open-air car (gondola with a big bench seat down the middle) from which you get the full "steam train experience" (sounds, smell, soot, etc.). Love it. Have fun. Pennsylvania is definitely train country. Even this weekend at the Split Rock Lodge when I told my wife we wouldn't do anything train related just celebrate my mom's 75th and parents 50th, there is was - - a plaque explaining that the retaining wall along the lodge patio was made up of limestones that were once part of the D&H railroad's trestle system. In 1996 the lodge owners purchased four trestle foundations worth of the limestone to build the wall. Hmmmm, made me wonder if the owner was a train kook too. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14558	From: roberte613@aol.com	Date: 8/29/2001
Subject: Re: AM derailing

I have a slightly related question to the heavyweight problem. I have never been able to get my Southern Crescent AM steamer to back through Flyer switches. Any suggestions? Robert Ellis

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14559	From: G-WOLFGANG5@JUNO.COM	Date: 8/29/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1127

I have had decent running out of my AM heavyweights. As long as they are heavily weighted in the centersill underneath, the axles are checked to make sure they are properly seated, the wheels are clean and the TRACKWORK IS PERFECT, ( I am moving to S helper track on which they run fine). I also use a AF 918 which seems to smooth the turn transitions. They are not perfect and I would never back them fast thru a switch , but I am looking for another PRR coach Tom Hillery

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14560	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 8/29/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1127

In a message dated 8/29/01 1:42:04 PM, G-WOLFGANG5@... writes: << I have had decent running out of my AM heavyweights. As long as they are heavily weighted in the centersill underneath, the axles are checked to make sure they are properly seated, the wheels are clean and the TRACKWORK IS PERFECT... >> Tom's comments are correct. I have gotten mine to run OK on an all Gilbert layout, as well, with some adjustments (You have some of us early customer's complaints to thank for the weight pipes in the centersill, by the way). However, the quality of these cars is just awful, given their price. The roof and windows are both part of one piece of transparent plastic which is painted where required on the roof. Because of this, light shines through the parts of the roof where the paint is thin, which is readily visible in a darkened room. The couplers are not really Gilbert-compatable. Just try using a 706 to uncouple the cars. While I'm kvetching, AM has had the habit through the years of cutting corners and compromising. To wit: 1. The GG-1's lack some of the most rudimentary details. And, why oh why, are the lead trucks and their supports plastic (again!) rather than diecast? 2. The Southern Crescent is painted in a shade of green that is not even in hailing distance of the real thing. The Pacific is lacking in detail and (on the early ones) the details that are there are too fragile. I personally do not like the plastic tender, but that could be a matter of personal taste. This set is the reason that I am now very resistant to putting down a deposit in advance on trains unseen. 3. The hand rails on my Baldwin are very fragile. Because the couplers are mounted to the body rather than Talgo style, these switchers are less than ideal for yard duties on many layouts. 4. In the case of a gauge that prides itself on being the "scale" gauge with attention to the prototypes, AM will paint any old road name on a piece to sell it. AM has shown some signs of improvement lately, but one should compare what is available for the money in other gauges and not just in S to make a judgment as to what is good value. If one is willing to accept Asian manufacture, some of what is available in O gauge is phenomenal. Check out a Lionel RS-11 with TMCC, Odyssey cruise control, ElectroCouplers, Railsounds, diesel smoke, two motors, fine decoration, and near scale proportions for a street price of less than $300. Sets of quality scale detailed heavyweights are available for under $300. One the other side, go see what Marklin offers the customer (e.g., HO with all-metal construction except for car interiors, diesels with diecast bodies, etc.) and still manages to provide a living wage for its workers in Germany. Not cheap, but not overpriced compared to what's offered in S. Sorry if these comments may offend some, but they are made with the constructive intent that the occasional critique often leads to improvement. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14561	From: LocoWorksJB@aol.com	Date: 8/29/2001
Subject: American Models 4-6-2

On the other hand... I kind of like the plastic tender on the AM 4-6-2. I was able to modify the tender quite a bit, as those who saw the model at the Scranton convention may have noticed. It was lowered, shortened, the outline of the side along the top of the coal box was altered, a new water hatch installed, and the cast coal was replaced with real coal. The locomotive, while not extensively detailed, was easy to modify, and add to. The fact that the cab is removable, and being plastic, made it easy to modify. Sometimes these things have a silver lining,...you just have to look for it. John Bell

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14562	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 8/29/2001
Subject: AM UP HEAVYWEIGHTS

Hi Guys, Anyone out there looking for a UP AM 5 car hvwt.(72') Brand new never out of the box....$265.00 shipping included ins extra Will also entertain reas. offers.....Mike S. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14563	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 8/30/2001
Subject: Re: American Models 4-6-2

In a message dated 8/30/01 1:26:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time, LocoWorksJB@... writes: << On the other hand... I kind of like the plastic tender on the AM 4-6-2. I was able to modify the tender quite a bit, ...<snip> ...The fact that the cab is removable, and being plastic, made it easy to modify. Sometimes these things have a silver lining,...you just have to look for it. >> Good for you, John. To each their own. My perspective is from the point of view that quality-built ready-to-run steam engine models have the look, heft, and feel of a well-decorated diecast tender. Cheap engines have plastic tenders. The postwar, experience, I guess. :-)) RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14564	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 8/30/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1128

In a message dated 08/30/2001 5:42:47 AM Mountain Daylight Time, S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes: > I have a slightly related question to the heavyweight problem. I have never > been able to get my Southern Crescent AM steamer to back through Flyer > switches. Any suggestions? > > Robert Ellis > > > Remove the trailing truck or "Don't back up through AF switches," I have the same problem. One of the reasons I switched to AM track and switches. Steve Blackburn Boise, Idaho [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14565	From: Michael Greene	Date: 8/30/2001
Subject: B.T.S. BL2s have arrived!!!

My local postman attempted to deliver a box to my house yesterday and we were not there to receive it. So I picked it up at the PO today. I was very happy to find it contained my BL2 kits from B.T.S. Now it's my turn to do some work. I hope to get the first one built over the new few weeks. I just wanted to publicly say thanks to Bill & Diane, and everyone else involved in the kit's production. I expected I'd be retired before I saw a BL2 in S, and I'm not even close! For those not familiar with it, or who did not make it to St. Louis or Scranton to see it, it's a urethane kit (available with or without mechanism), with urethane, brass, ad other detail parts. Although I have not fully unpacked every part, the parts are very crisp, with good molded in detail in addition to all the detail parts provided. It uses parts from American Models for motor, flywheel, gear towers and trucks, so it can be built in scale or hi-rail. Kit includes Kadee couplers. You can see more at the B.T.S. web site at: http://www.btsrr.com/btsbl2.htm Thanks again B.T.S. for all the persistence, the effort, and the willingness to take the risks involved in bring the BL2 to market. Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14566	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 8/30/2001
Subject: Re: AM derailing

Try loosening the rear truck mounting screw so it has more vertical play. You may want to put a drop of glue or loctite in the screw hole to keep the adjustment. I think that's what I did for mine a couple years ago. No serious problems since. roberte613@... wrote: > > I have a slightly related question to the heavyweight problem. I have never > been able to get my Southern Crescent AM steamer to back through Flyer > switches. Any suggestions? > > Robert Ellis > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14567	From: gunrjoe@aol.com	Date: 8/30/2001
Subject: Track for turnouts

I have all original flyer track and 12 turnouts. When constructing a siding on a straightaway flyer track comes up 2" short. I do not have any bad track to cut up and would I cut only a 2" piece or two 6"? Is there a better way. But 12" cargraves?? Cut off 12" from 36" repro track?? This is probably old hat to most of you but I,m still learning. Second, in the Greenberg price book they always state that you should refer to their guides VOL I, II, and III. Why do they even mention this when most of can't buy beg or even steal copies of vol II and III? Thirdly, I went to my library and found little on S or Gilbert. Only one suburb in the Chicago area has the Man Who Lives in Paradise. I found only one with Classic Toy Trains. Most including mine has Model Railraoding which is mostly HO. I was reviewing a guide to Model Railraoding that stated some gauges have not been discussed as they have all but died out. They didn't list "S". My points are obvious.In the eyes of many "S" did die and they are unaware of the new momentum in "S". [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14568	From: IronHorse	Date: 8/30/2001
Subject: Re: Track for turnouts

If you want only 2" of AF track then you will have to cut a section off a sacrificial piece. Don't use another brand. It won't look good on the end of the siding if it is where people see it. You could get old AF track at most train shows. It would be found in a box under some- ones display table. Roger gunrjoe@... wrote: > I have all original flyer track and 12 turnouts. When constructing a siding > on a straightaway flyer track comes up 2" short. I do not have any bad track > to cut up and would I cut only a 2" piece or two 6"? Is there a better way. > But 12" cargraves?? Cut off 12" from 36" repro track?? This is probably old > hat to most of you but I,m still learning.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14569	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 8/30/2001
Subject: "S" IS ALIVE AND GROWING

Hi Joe, In 1989 the NASG had about 900 members. Today we are close to 1800 and growing. S-Gaugian sells close to 6,000 copies per year. The August issue of Model Railroader had an editorial and a feature article on S. We are promoting S at the National Train Show, NMRA conventions in Model Railroad News and soon in other publications. We depend on people like you to start local clubs and promote S at local train shows. "S" has momentum so help us promote it. You can use these websites: National Association of S Gaugers at: http://www.nasg.org North Penn S Gaugers (local Club) at: http://npsg3.homestead.com/files/npsgi.htm Roy Hoffman's (NASG President) website: http://www.s-scaletrains.com/ Atlantic Coast S Gaugers on Homestead: http://www.homestead.com/waynestrains/acsg.html Badgerland S Gaugers on Trainweb http://www.trainweb.org/bsg/ Bristol S Gaugers at Trainweb http://www.trainweb.org/bristol-s-gauge/index.html A lot more ideas can be found at: http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/links/links.htm You may visit my model railroad by going to: http://www.geocities.com/glenn_ritter/index.html then go to: "My Model Railroad". Staying on the NPSG branchline of NASG track, Glenn NASG Secretary gunrjoe@... wrote: Thirdly, I went to my library and found little on S or Gilbert. Only one suburb in the Chicago area has the Man Who Lives in Paradise. I found only one with Classic Toy Trains. Most including mine has Model Railraoding which is mostly HO. I was reviewing a guide to Model Railroading that stated some gauges have not been discussed as they have all but died out. They didn't list "S". My points are obvious. In the eyes of many "S" did die and they are unaware of the new momentum in "S".

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14570	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 8/30/2001
Subject: Re: Track for turnouts

gunrjoe@... wrote: > > I have all original flyer track and 12 turnouts. When constructing a siding > on a straightaway flyer track comes up 2" short. I do not have any bad track > to cut up and would I cut only a 2" piece or two 6"? Is there a better way. > But 12" cargraves?? Cut off 12" from 36" repro track?? This is probably old > hat to most of you but I,m still learning. I would opt for 2 sixes. A 2" piece is not very useful except for the specific application, as well as being flimsy. Flyer needed 1/2 sections for crossovers so they made them. A six inch piece could be remade into one of these 1/2 sections later. > > Second, in the Greenberg price book they always state that you should refer > to their guides VOL I, II, and III. Why do they even mention this when most > of can't buy beg or even steal copies of vol II and III? Who knows? -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14571	From: Don	Date: 8/30/2001
Subject: Re: Flex track, PRR 155# (code 125)

Today we unloaded the first shipment of our PRR 155# flex track. It come is 40" length and includes rail joiners. We are selling this as #00465 (6 packs ($47.95) and #00466 bulk (24 sections for $179.95). We also have #00660 rail joiners (36 for $3.95). All items are now available. Don -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 F-3s and Double Sheathed boxcars are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/emdf3s_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14572	From: Don	Date: 8/30/2001
Subject: Re: Sound units

Dear Dave, Our DCC decoders/sound units are being produced for us by Soundtrax and were shipped to us today. We expect the wire harnesses from our overseas builder in the next 2 weeks. You should see these in mid September. The E-7 A and B units are being designed for us now and we will get the opportunity to meet our engineer next week at the International Hobby and Model Show in Chicago to go over a few more details. He should have the test shots of the new phase 1, F-7 shell and stainless steel early Farr grill panels next week too! We saw the 36" dynamic brake panels in July. We are hoping to see these this winter. Seven roadnames are planned, AT&SF (warbonnet passenger), AT&SF freight, PRR (brunswick green, single stripe), Great Northern (as delivered), D&RGW (4 stripe gold scheme), Boston & Maine (Tuscan) and L&N (as delivered, black and cream scheme). We will market these as single As, Bs or A, B sets. They can be ordered, DC no sound, AC/DC Locomatic sound or DCC sound. Thanks for asking, Don David Held wrote: > Don, What's the latest timing on the release of the Digitrax > sound/throttel units for the F3's. The E7s, fact or fiction? Same for > F7s? Haven't talked for some months, so I thought I'd try EMail. > Thanks, Dave -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 F-3s and Double Sheathed boxcars are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/emdf3s_in_stock.html [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14573	From: IronHorse	Date: 8/30/2001
Subject: RR web site links

Those of you with train web sites, add my link to your site and I will add yours to mine. Crossroads of America RR museum. HTTP://www.travel.to/cofa Roger Hinds

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14574	From: Bill Lane	Date: 8/30/2001
Subject: Bill's Train Shop air hoses

Hi All, Does anyone have any "extra" B.T.S. freight car air # 02302 Air Hoses? Bill is out of them. I will buy what you have. Thanks Bill

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14575	From: mlmarmer	Date: 8/31/2001
Subject: Re: "S" IS ALIVE AND GROWING

Hi Glen, Your mentioning of the NASG is perfect timing for me, because I just sent in my membership application to join the group two days ago, after putting it off since getting back into American Flyer trains in 1992! I waited too long. Looking forward to the newsletters from this group. Mike Marmer Germantown, MD

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14576	From: IronHorse	Date: 8/31/2001
Subject: Parts

Hi Guys; I am interested in building up an inventory of repair parts so I can fix trains for those in need. I would appreciate a list of people that MAKE replacement parts. The last time I asked I got a list of dealers which is fine. But no mention of who makes replacement parts. I am not lyin L so I won't be seeking action on a copyright infringement. I own a museum specializing in AF Gilbert trains. Repairing and selling parts would be a side line to keep out of trouble. You could send the info directly to cofa@... instead of the group if that is a preferred contact Roger HTTP://www.travel.to/cofa

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14577	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 8/31/2001
Subject: Re: RR web site links

Hi Roger, I put a link to your site on my AF page. If it's OK, could you put in a link to my site. http://www.s-scaletrains.com Your link is at http://www.s-scaletrains.com/saf.htm I enjoyed my visit to COFA last year. Regards, Roy --- In S-Trains@y..., IronHorse <cofa@t...> wrote: > > Those of you with train web sites, add my link to your site and I will add yours to > mine. > > Crossroads of America RR museum. HTTP://www.travel.to/cofa > > Roger Hinds

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14578	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 8/31/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, September 2, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14579	From: IronHorse	Date: 8/31/2001
Subject: traction & tire rims

I had an interesting thought. My 0-8-0 steam switcher came with rubber tires on the rear drivers. Has anyone tried using rubber tired rims both front and rear ? I realize the front metal rims may have to be changed to match the diameter of the rear rims. Any way is this feasible? Would it make a noticeable improvement? Comments ? Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14580	From: carl@wsbt.com	Date: 8/31/2001
Subject: Re: traction & tire rims

If you want a real stump puller 4 traction tires will do it.. I have done it with a 342 of mine and the drawbar pull is 24+ ounces! You have to modify the front hole in the connecting rods so that they are not elongated. I made an insert and re-drilled it. This is because the side rod is acually doing some work now. If you don't the engine will become jerky under load. Careful quartering of the drivers is also critical to smooth operation. I made my own traction wheels buy turning down regular wheels and bonding Lionel traction tires on with CA glue. My little 342 will pull 20+ AF cars up a 3-4% grade now. Carl --- In S-Trains@y..., IronHorse <cofa@t...> wrote: > I had an interesting thought. > > My 0-8-0 steam switcher came with rubber tires on the rear > drivers. > Has anyone tried using rubber tired rims both front and rear > ? > > I realize the front metal rims may have to be changed to > match the diameter > of the rear rims. > > Any way is this feasible? Would it make a noticeable > improvement? > > Comments ? > > Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14581	From: John Foley	Date: 8/31/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale]

Russ Mobley's passing is a great loss to S Gauge model railroading. Russ was one of the real old timers that kept S gauge from just disappearing in the dark days. He also kept the NASG going while he was serving our country in the USAF. I built a few of his Quality Craft freight cars kits he produced years ago. I know plenty of folks will dearly miss Russ but I but he will be organizing an S club in heaven. Goodbye Russ you won't soon be forgotten. John Foley NASG VP At 09:18 PM 8/31/01 -0400, Russell Mobley wrote: >I would like to let each of you know that Mr. Russell Morris Mobley, Sr. >passed away this morning. The untimely death of Russ will be a loss to us >all. His family and surviving wife would appreciate all your prayers and >thoughts during this trying and difficult time. We all will miss Russ >very much, but we all know he is in a better place. As my youngest son >says now he is with Jesus and there is no more pain. We thank each of you >for all your prayers and most of all for what your friendship, or just >emails meant to Russ. > >Thank you so much, >Tammy >with Love Russ----your daughter > > >Funeral Home will be Curtis Funeral Home Thomson, Georgia >Graveside Services on Monday Sept 3, 2001. > >Condolences may be sent to Mae Mobley > 5636 Woodvalley Road > Thomson, GA 30824 > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >To see or post Photos visit >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Scale/files/ >or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/ >To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14582	From: Bob	Date: 9/1/2001
Subject: Thanks Group......

Dear Group, I just want to thank everyone who sent me info on Hersey Park and all of the train related thing to do out in that part of PA.That's why I like this group of guys.........always willing to help a member in need! Have a happy and healthy holiday,I'm off to TRAIN COUNTRY........smell that coal.........Bob S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14583	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/1/2001
Subject: WP train down the feathe river canyon update

Hi all, Well, news late last night is that the train is postponed while an insurance glitch is worked out. I'll try to let y'all know when something happens, if I get any advanced warning! Back to smaller railroading! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14584	From: Ross	Date: 9/1/2001
Subject: Early American Flyer

I acquired an American Flyer 263 Narrow Gauge Hoosac Tunnel. 11 inches long. American Flyer Mfg. Co. Made in USA. Inside the tunnel is the manufacturer's label listing the above information. On the left side of the label appears to be a horizontal stamp: 10 followed by the Cents symbol On the center of the label appears to be a vertical stamp: 10 followed by the Cents symbol On the upper right side of the label appears to be several attempts to stamp. One is the 10 but the rest is impossible to read. I searched the web and found lots of information on the real Hoosac Tunnel. Does anyone know where I can find more information about this American Flyer 263 Tunnel? Year(s) produced? Value today? Thanks. Ross Roberts 4623 194th Avenue SE Issaquah WA 98027 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14585	From: Clay Kinsner	Date: 9/1/2001
Subject: Re: Early American Flyer

Hi Ross (and all): The Hoosac Tunnel was made 1929-34. According to the catalog, it was paper mache. Flyer named their tunnels early on, usually designating a different length. The 263 was billed as "narrow gauge", 12 inches long. Source: Greenberg's Guide to American Flyer Wide Gauge. Last time we sold one, I think we got around $35-$40 bucks. Clay Kinsner Lone Star Trains and Collectibles San Antonio, Texas clayk@... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ross" <roberts2100@...> To: "S Trains" <S-Trains@...> Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 11:15 AM Subject: [S-Trains] Early American Flyer > I acquired an American Flyer 263 Narrow Gauge Hoosac Tunnel. 11 inches long. American Flyer Mfg. Co. Made in USA. > > Inside the tunnel is the manufacturer's label listing the above information. > On the left side of the label appears to be a horizontal stamp: 10 followed by the Cents symbol > On the center of the label appears to be a vertical stamp: 10 followed by the Cents symbol > On the upper right side of the label appears to be several attempts to stamp. One is the 10 but the rest is impossible to read. > > I searched the web and found lots of information on the real Hoosac Tunnel. Does anyone know where I can find more information about this American Flyer 263 Tunnel? Year(s) produced? Value today? > > Thanks. > > > Ross Roberts > 4623 194th Avenue SE > Issaquah WA 98027 > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14586	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 9/1/2001
Subject: Re: Early American Flyer

In a message dated 9/1/01 12:15:10 PM, roberts2100@... writes: << I searched the web and found lots of information on the real Hoosac Tunnel. Does anyone know where I can find more information about this American Flyer 263 Tunnel? Year(s) produced? Value today? >> Robert, An entry for #263 Hoosic Tunnel is to be found on page 125 of the old "Greenberg's Guide to American Flyer Wide Gauge" by A. R. Schuweiler, 1989. O gauge accessories are to found in this book as well. According to this reference, the tunnel was built from 1929 to 1934. Found a nice picture (artist's color rendering) on page 24 in my 1932 AF catalog where it is described as being 12" long and costing $1.25 (East) and 1.34 (West) <g>. Current value will turn very much on condition since this was made of paper-mache, which readily deteriorates. The guide lists a value of $15 for E, but this is probably a bit low in today's market (and we all know how much one can trust Greenberg prices <g>!). Hope this helps. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14587	From: HOGHEADHAT@AOL.COM	Date: 9/1/2001
Subject: Hoghead Hatwear and apparel announcement

Hello, We are pleased to announce our new line of Dunsbrooke apparel. The apparel are custom embroidered with your favorite RR logo. Golf shirts, fleecewear and jackets. Our hats are quality -heavy duty, and made in USA. New designs each month. "A Promise of Performance in every hat we make." http://cencalrails.railfan.net/hoghead.html highball the rollby! We now accept PAYPAL and will soon accept credit cards. We will also have store front on Trainshops.com open this week. Thanks, Kent Kahle Hoghead Hatwear

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14588	From: Dick Kuepper	Date: 9/1/2001
Subject: Cardboard Building Interiors

Does anyone know where to get paper/cardboard pix of building interiors? Like the ones P'ville has for some of their stores, but for offices, factories, etc. There are tons of websites with paper buildings, signs, etc., but I haven't found these. Also would like to know of any commercial sites - catalogs, etc. I want to use them in windows of background bldgs. Thanks. Dick [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14589	From: Hannon	Date: 9/1/2001
Subject: S-Gauge Reference Manual Updates Available

To Everyone Who Purchased This Reference Manual: IF YOU PURCHASED THIS MANUAL AND YOU DIDN'T RECEIVE A COPY OF THIS E-MAIL OFF-LIST, THEN WE EITHER DON'T HAVE YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS OR WE HAVE THE WRONG ADDRESS. PLEASE LET US KNOW, OK? Updates to the A.C. Gilbert S-Gauge Reference Manual are available at: http://www.trainrefs.com Click on the manual cover on the Home page; then, Click on the "Updates" button on the tracks to the left; then, Click on one of the "Title"s in the table. These updates include new data on the following accessories: The #695 Reverse Loop Relay The #26671 Electric Track Trip (with instruction sheets). Problems? Drop us a line at support@.... Thanks, Bob & Patrick Hannon

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14590	From: M.McConnell	Date: 9/1/2001
Subject: WEB link exchange

Roger - I added a link to your site from ours, the link is at http://trainweb.org/sjsg - just click on the button for "WEB Links" at the top. Michael McConnell South Jersey S Gaugers http://trainweb.org/sjsg >Message: 11 >Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 21:24:03 -0400 >From: IronHorse <cofa@...> >Subject: RR web site links > >Those of you with train web sites, add my link to your site and I will add >yours to >mine. >Crossroads of America RR museum. HTTP://www.travel.to/cofa >Roger Hinds >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14591	From: Rick Evans	Date: 9/1/2001
Subject: S Gaugian & CTT.....

I'm sure glad my S Gaugian came at the same time as my CTT,....just was skimmin' through the CTT and haven't seen much to do with "S" !!! :-( Rick. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14592	From: M.McConnell	Date: 9/1/2001
Subject: Pictures from the NASG Convention

Hank Worrell took some great shots of the attendees at the NASG convention - and they've been posted on our WEB site. I think you'll recognize some of the people in the photos - you've been talking to them on this list for some time (Paul York, Chris Zizzo, Don Thompson, Ron Bashista, Roy Hoffman, Kelvin White - and a bunch of others.) Just thought you might want to take a look - stop by at http://www.trainweb.org/sjsg and click on the 'S' to get to the main page - then click on the button marked "Club Events". Enjoy! Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14593	From: The Reis's	Date: 9/1/2001
Subject: Steve Blackburns S-Gauge Video #2

Exceptional Job Steve !! Got the video in the mail today and watched it for the first, I�m sure, many times. Lots of great Flyer video with operating layouts and static displays. Now I can�t wait for volume 3. And the $13 is a real bargain. All around great job Steve. Eric Reis Kenmore, Wa. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14594	From: rgajnak@earthlink.net	Date: 9/2/2001
Subject: Re: S Gaugian & CTT.....

--- In S-Trains@y..., "Rick Evans" <comic@d...> wrote: > I'm sure glad my S Gaugian came at the same time as my CTT,....just was skimmin' > through the CTT and haven't seen much to do with "S" !!! :-( > > Rick. Well, take it when you can get it... I guess if one expects CTT to contain stunning "S" content every issue, one is going to be sorely dissapointed at regular intervals. However...the AM K4 review took top spot over all other reviews in this issue, demonstrating to CTT's readers that there are indeed viable alternatives to the 3-rail phenomenon (today's $5.00 word.) And it was a good review to boot. Plus, the MTH Flyer repro coal loader in the 'New Products' column is displayed, with yes indeed, "S" hoppers from AM and vintage Flyer, and NOT with evil 3-rail O products. Two small steps for "S". Or would the "S" cause have been better served if CTT had not published these? Be seeing you... Rich G.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14595	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 9/2/2001
Subject: Re: S Gaugian & CTT.....

All, It just could be that both mags plus the various clubs and organizations involved in the toy/scale train hobby lack the quantity of good, well written, informative articles we like to see. Must be many among us who could share pictures, stories etc if we put our fingers to keyboards. Not a challenge, just a thought. Jim Lyle [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14596	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 9/2/2001
Subject: Ebay Item 163 187 8773 MTB switch system

Hello all. I was hoping to obtain some helpful knowledge of , information or experience with this item. I am using Pikemaster track and will be purchasing Pikemaster switches . Will these "System Controllers " work well with the necessary switch machine and which would be best for pikemaster? Tortoise? I have a few Tenshodo intended for HO? Will I be better off trying to adapt 0 machines such as MTH or Atlas? Any and all help appreciated. Thanks Dennis

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14597	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 9/2/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, September 2, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14598	From: gino restivo	Date: 9/2/2001
Subject: re ; pikemaster switchs

" Ho " pikemaster switch machine are very close to Atlas " Ho " , and can be used ... even for complete replacement ... compare them , you will see have fun , gsr [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14599	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 9/2/2001
Subject: Re: re ; pikemaster switchs

Thanks Gino, Dennis

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14600	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/2/2001
Subject: WP in the Feather River canyon update

Latest word is that tomorrow (monday, 3rd) is the date! Lv 8 AM Portola. As usuall, all scheduled times are a fantasy! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14601	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 9/3/2001
Subject: Re: S Gaugian & CTT.....

In a message dated 9/2/01 3:23:43 PM, WJJIM@... writes: << It just could be that both mags plus the various clubs and organizations involved in the toy/scale train hobby lack the quantity of good, well written, informative articles we like to see. Must be many among us who could share pictures, stories etc. if we put our fingers to keyboards. >> A good thought, Jim, and this is done by folks on a limited basis. A principal problem, however, is that publishers in our hobby often offer to non-staffers insufficent to no remuneration. Not to imply that one should expect to get rich from occasional freelancing, but in many instances the money is not enough to reimburse one for photographic expenses. It should be remembered that the publishers are running for profit businesses for which advertising and subscription fees are collected. Small and fair nominal sums to pay for articles should be included in their budgets and would provide some modest financial encouragement to potential authors. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14602	From: Don Thompson	Date: 9/3/2001
Subject: Re: "S" Quote of the week (maybe the year)

rgajnak@... wrote: ...and NOT with evil 3-rail O products. > Be seeing you... > Rich G.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14603	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 9/3/2001
Subject: Re: "S" Quote of the week (maybe the year)

In a message dated 9/3/01 4:03:06 PM, robin@... writes: << rgajnak@... wrote: ...and NOT with evil 3-rail O products. > Be seeing you... > Rich G. >> Which year? 2001, 1961, 1953,....? <g>

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14604	From: Don Thompson	Date: 9/3/2001
Subject: Re: "S" Quote of the week (maybe the year)

Dear Rich, Good point...Every year! Don rbubeck327@... wrote: > In a message dated 9/3/01 4:03:06 PM, robin@... writes: > > << rgajnak@... wrote: > > ...and NOT with evil 3-rail O products. > > > Be seeing you... > > Rich G. >> > > Which year? 2001, 1961, 1953,....? <g> -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 F-3s and Double Sheathed boxcars are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/emdf3s_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14605	From: Tom Stolte	Date: 9/3/2001
Subject: New decals from Oddballs Decals - N, S, HO and O scales.

652 ATSF assorted station sign names from around the ATSF system, 2 of each name (present) 12 inch black lettering for the Sunrise Enterprises cast station sign. 653 UP M of W trucks. (1990's+) Trucks are painted white. Red, white, blue and yellow stripes. Set will letter 9 trucks. Has the small 3 color UP herald. 654 BN M of W trucks. (1980's+) Trucks are painted BN green and BN orange. Black & white lettering. Set will letter 9 trucks of each color. Total of 18 trucks. Has the small BN 5 1/4" BN logo. 655 ATSF M of W trucks. (1970's+) Trucks are painted white. Blue lettering & stripes. Set will letter 12 trucks. Has the small ATSF circle/cross herald, plus the 38" Santa Fe spelled out lettering that fits on the side of the door. New catalog now on CD. PDF format. $5.00. Comes with Adobe reader. The N scale sets will letter 2 or 3 cars. S & O scale will letter 1 car. All the above decals refer to HO scale kits on the market. These will also work for other scales. Just pick a car of your choice in the other scales. Prefix numbers for N scale 60-. HO scale 87-. S scale 64-. O scale 48-. N & HO scale retail price $3.25. S & O scale retail price $6.50. These should be in your favorite hobby shop within the next month or so. If ordering direct, please include $1.75 for p&h. Up to date catalog N, HO, S & O scale, $6.00, plus $1.75 for p&h. You buy this catalog once, then every 3 months or so, send me a LSSAE for updates. Fits in a 3 ring binder. --- --- Tom Stolte - Oddballs Decals N, HO, S & O Scale Model Railroad Decals 26550 227th Street; McLouth, Kansas 66054 Phone: 913-727-6649 - oddballdecal@... Web site http://www.oddballsdecals.com/ Subscribe: OddballsDecals-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Missouri Pacific Photos Web Page: http://www.trainweb.org/mopac/ NMRA Member #121756

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14606	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 9/3/2001
Subject: Re: "S" Quote of the week (maybe the year)

Isn't the term "evil 3-rail" somewhat redundant? :^) Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14607	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 9/4/2001
Subject: Re: S Gaugian & CTT.....

I have experienced in both CTT & S-Gaugian that it is not just the cost of the photographs but they want you to take extra hours to present them in very specific ways that cost more in time and money than say our NASG Dispatch which has some fine articles, takes less time and the photos are visible. When we read CTT or Model Railroader the layouts are beyond what many of us have time to build or enjoy. Also CTT is drawing from 80,000 "O" gaugers and we may only have 10,000 active "S" gaugers who would rather enjoy our layouts than build to what CTT expects. rbubeck327@... wrote: In a message dated 9/2/01 3:23:43 PM, WJJIM@... writes: << It just could be that both mags plus the various clubs and organizations involved in the toy/scale train hobby lack the quantity of good, well written, informative articles we like to see. Must be many among us who could share pictures, stories etc. if we put our fingers to keyboards. >> A good thought, Jim, and this is done by folks on a limited basis. A principal problem, however, is that publishers in our hobby often offer to non-staffers insufficent to no remuneration. Not to imply that one should expect to get rich from occasional freelancing, but in many instances the money is not enough to reimburse one for photographic expenses. It should be remembered that the publishers are running for profit businesses for which advertising and subscription fees are collected. Small and fair nominal sums to pay for articles should be included in their budgets and would provide some modest financial encouragement to potential authors. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14608	From: Mark Preman	Date: 9/4/2001
Subject: American Flyer Trains For Sale

The new list is posted. I even have some AF O gauge for you prewar guys. Look for the PREWAR button. I also have the new TM AF video VOL II. Click on this: http://www.americanflyertrains.com ===== Mark B. Preman AmericanFlyerTrains.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14609	From: Mark Preman	Date: 9/4/2001
Subject: American Flyer Trains For Sale

The new list is posted. I even have some AF O Gauge for you prewar guys. Look for the PREWAR button. I also have the new TM AF video VOL II. Click on this: http://www.americanflyertrains.com ===== Mark B. Preman AmericanFlyerTrains.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14610	From: davedesian@clarkus.com	Date: 9/4/2001
Subject: S Gaugian Magazine

I enjoy kit bashing a model or making something that is not commercially available. We are a scale/gauge of can-do people. I have written how-to articles on many of the projects that I have under taken over the years. A number of years ago, I offered a dozen written articles with photos and/or drawings to S Gaugian Magazine. I requested for payment/compensation a one subscription. I thought that an in-kind payment on their part would cause the lowest out-of-pocket cost on their behalf. My suggestion/request was rejected and my articles were not printed. From my point of view, the subscription was of more value to me than a payment of any amount. I have to believe a subscription for the magazine would of been an easy compensation trade on their part. I know that it takes time and care to prepare an article for print. I thought my suggestion was a win/win for both parties. The benefits to everyone would be a plentiful of subjects and projects for the readers, the gratification of seeing ones work in print and the magazine would have a surplus of articles to select for each issue. However, my thoughts were not the same as others. Therefore, I enjoy my hobby on a local level. David Avedesian President Boston and Maryland Railroad Baltimore Area American Flyer Club 301 272 8384 w 301 938 1811 c 301 929 9000 h davedesian@... S-Trains@yahoogroups.com on 09/04/2001 10:18:41 AM Please respond to S-Trains@yahoogroups.com To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com cc: Subject: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1133 S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... ------------------------------------------------------------------------ There are 7 messages in this issue. Topics in this digest: 1. Re: Re: S Gaugian & CTT..... From: rbubeck327@... 2. Re: "S" Quote of the week (maybe the year) From: Don Thompson <robin@...> 3. Re: Re: "S" Quote of the week (maybe the year) From: rbubeck327@... 4. Re: Re: "S" Quote of the week (maybe the year) From: Don Thompson <robin@...> 5. New decals from Oddballs Decals - N, S, HO and O scales. From: "Tom Stolte" <oddballdecal@...> 6. Re: Re: "S" Quote of the week (maybe the year) From: eighthmile@... 7. Re: Re: S Gaugian & CTT..... From: Glenn Ritter <gartrain@...> ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 1 Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 11:46:20 EDT From: rbubeck327@... Subject: Re: Re: S Gaugian & CTT..... In a message dated 9/2/01 3:23:43 PM, WJJIM@... writes: << It just could be that both mags plus the various clubs and organizations involved in the toy/scale train hobby lack the quantity of good, well written, informative articles we like to see. Must be many among us who could share pictures, stories etc. if we put our fingers to keyboards. >> A good thought, Jim, and this is done by folks on a limited basis. A principal problem, however, is that publishers in our hobby often offer to non-staffers insufficent to no remuneration. Not to imply that one should expect to get rich from occasional freelancing, but in many instances the money is not enough to reimburse one for photographic expenses. It should be remembered that the publishers are running for profit businesses for which advertising and subscription fees are collected. Small and fair nominal sums to pay for articles should be included in their budgets and would provide some modest financial encouragement to potential authors. RB ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 16:01:05 -0400 From: Don Thompson <robin@...> Subject: Re: "S" Quote of the week (maybe the year) rgajnak@... wrote: ...and NOT with evil 3-rail O products. > Be seeing you... > Rich G. ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 16:39:24 EDT From: rbubeck327@... Subject: Re: Re: "S" Quote of the week (maybe the year) In a message dated 9/3/01 4:03:06 PM, robin@... writes: << rgajnak@... wrote: ...and NOT with evil 3-rail O products. > Be seeing you... > Rich G. >> Which year? 2001, 1961, 1953,....? <g> ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 17:40:27 -0400 From: Don Thompson <robin@...> Subject: Re: Re: "S" Quote of the week (maybe the year) Dear Rich, Good point...Every year! Don rbubeck327@... wrote: > In a message dated 9/3/01 4:03:06 PM, robin@... writes: > > << rgajnak@... wrote: > > ...and NOT with evil 3-rail O products. > > > Be seeing you... > > Rich G. >> > > Which year? 2001, 1961, 1953,....? <g> -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 F-3s and Double Sheathed boxcars are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/emdf3s_in_stock.html ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 21:44:38 -0400 From: "Tom Stolte" <oddballdecal@...> Subject: New decals from Oddballs Decals - N, S, HO and O scales. 652 ATSF assorted station sign names from around the ATSF system, 2 of each name (present) 12 inch black lettering for the Sunrise Enterprises cast station sign. 653 UP M of W trucks. (1990's+) Trucks are painted white. Red, white, blue and yellow stripes. Set will letter 9 trucks. Has the small 3 color UP herald. 654 BN M of W trucks. (1980's+) Trucks are painted BN green and BN orange. Black & white lettering. Set will letter 9 trucks of each color. Total of 18 trucks. Has the small BN 5 1/4" BN logo. 655 ATSF M of W trucks. (1970's+) Trucks are painted white. Blue lettering & stripes. Set will letter 12 trucks. Has the small ATSF circle/cross herald, plus the 38" Santa Fe spelled out lettering that fits on the side of the door. New catalog now on CD. PDF format. $5.00. Comes with Adobe reader. The N scale sets will letter 2 or 3 cars. S & O scale will letter 1 car. All the above decals refer to HO scale kits on the market. These will also work for other scales. Just pick a car of your choice in the other scales. Prefix numbers for N scale 60-. HO scale 87-. S scale 64-. O scale 48-. N & HO scale retail price $3.25. S & O scale retail price $6.50. These should be in your favorite hobby shop within the next month or so. If ordering direct, please include $1.75 for p&h. Up to date catalog N, HO, S & O scale, $6.00, plus $1.75 for p&h. You buy this catalog once, then every 3 months or so, send me a LSSAE for updates. Fits in a 3 ring binder. --- --- Tom Stolte - Oddballs Decals N, HO, S & O Scale Model Railroad Decals 26550 227th Street; McLouth, Kansas 66054 Phone: 913-727-6649 - oddballdecal@... Web site http://www.oddballsdecals.com/ Subscribe: OddballsDecals-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Missouri Pacific Photos Web Page: http://www.trainweb.org/mopac/ NMRA Member #121756 ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 6 Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 05:18:59 -0000 From: eighthmile@... Subject: Re: Re: "S" Quote of the week (maybe the year) Isn't the term "evil 3-rail" somewhat redundant? :^) Chuck F. ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 7 Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 08:30:21 -0400 From: Glenn Ritter <gartrain@...> Subject: Re: Re: S Gaugian & CTT..... I have experienced in both CTT & S-Gaugian that it is not just the cost of the photographs but they want you to take extra hours to present them in very specific ways that cost more in time and money than say our NASG Dispatch which has some fine articles, takes less time and the photos are visible. When we read CTT or Model Railroader the layouts are beyond what many of us have time to build or enjoy. Also CTT is drawing from 80,000 "O" gaugers and we may only have 10,000 active "S" gaugers who would rather enjoy our layouts than build to what CTT expects. rbubeck327@... wrote: In a message dated 9/2/01 3:23:43 PM, WJJIM@... writes: << It just could be that both mags plus the various clubs and organizations involved in the toy/scale train hobby lack the quantity of good, well written, informative articles we like to see. Must be many among us who could share pictures, stories etc. if we put our fingers to keyboards. >> A good thought, Jim, and this is done by folks on a limited basis. A principal problem, however, is that publishers in our hobby often offer to non-staffers insufficent to no remuneration. Not to imply that one should expect to get rich from occasional freelancing, but in many instances the money is not enough to reimburse one for photographic expenses. It should be remembered that the publishers are running for profit businesses for which advertising and subscription fees are collected. Small and fair nominal sums to pay for articles should be included in their budgets and would provide some modest financial encouragement to potential authors. RB ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14611	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 9/4/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1133

EVIL 3- rail? not!!!! I run a lot of older 3-rail American Flyer, ( grandad of the present two rail) these trains were also built by Gilbert in New Haven, Conn. At 60+ years of running they still have the Gilbert quality. The New Haven (metal) cars, running behind a 4-8-4 northern looks very impressive. Plus, Reverse loops are a lot simpler to wire. The Chicago Flyer is very nice, The City of Denver, The Burlington Zephyr, and the scale Hudson (on the market a year before LIONEL). Don't pick on #3-rail. Jerry 77-11644 ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14612	From: Carl Tuveson	Date: 9/4/2001
Subject: Re: S Gaugian Magazine

This is fhe perfect use of this forum. You can still submit your pet projects and tips for all to benefit from. Publish them in the files section for downloading and future reference. Carl > -----Original Message----- > From: davedesian@... [SMTP:davedesian@...] > Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 12:09 PM > To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [S-Trains] S Gaugian Magazine > > > I enjoy kit bashing a model or making something that is not commercially > available. We are a scale/gauge of can-do people. I have written how-to > articles on many of the projects that I have under taken over the years. > > A number of years ago, I offered a dozen written articles with photos > and/or drawings to S Gaugian Magazine. I requested for > payment/compensation a one subscription. I thought that an in-kind > payment > on their part would cause the lowest out-of-pocket cost on their behalf. > My suggestion/request was rejected and my articles were not printed. > > From my point of view, the subscription was of more value to me than a > payment of any amount. I have to believe a subscription for the magazine > would of been an easy compensation trade on their part. > > I know that it takes time and care to prepare an article for print. I > thought my suggestion was a win/win for both parties. The benefits to > everyone would be a plentiful of subjects and projects for the readers, > the > gratification of seeing ones work in print and the magazine would have a > surplus of articles to select for each issue. > > However, my thoughts were not the same as others. Therefore, I enjoy my > hobby on a local level. > > David Avedesian > President > Boston and Maryland Railroad > Baltimore Area American Flyer Club > 301 272 8384 w > 301 938 1811 c > 301 929 9000 h > davedesian@... > > > > > > > S-Trains@yahoogroups.com on 09/04/2001 10:18:41 AM > > Please respond to S-Trains@yahoogroups.com > > To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com > cc: > > Subject: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1133 > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > There are 7 messages in this issue. > > Topics in this digest: > > 1. Re: Re: S Gaugian & CTT..... > From: rbubeck327@... > 2. Re: "S" Quote of the week (maybe the year) > From: Don Thompson <robin@...> > 3. Re: Re: "S" Quote of the week (maybe the year) > From: rbubeck327@... > 4. Re: Re: "S" Quote of the week (maybe the year) > From: Don Thompson <robin@...> > 5. New decals from Oddballs Decals - N, S, HO and O scales. > From: "Tom Stolte" <oddballdecal@...> > 6. Re: Re: "S" Quote of the week (maybe the year) > From: eighthmile@... > 7. Re: Re: S Gaugian & CTT..... > From: Glenn Ritter <gartrain@...> > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 11:46:20 EDT > From: rbubeck327@... > Subject: Re: Re: S Gaugian & CTT..... > > > In a message dated 9/2/01 3:23:43 PM, WJJIM@... writes: > > << It just could be that both mags plus the various clubs and > organizations > involved in the toy/scale train hobby lack the quantity of good, well > written, informative articles we like to see. Must be many among us who > could share pictures, stories etc. if we put our fingers to keyboards. >> > > A good thought, Jim, and this is done by folks on a limited basis. A > principal problem, however, is that publishers in our hobby often offer to > non-staffers insufficent to no remuneration. Not to imply that one should > expect to get rich from occasional freelancing, but in many instances the > money is not enough to reimburse one for photographic expenses. It should > be > remembered that the publishers are running for profit businesses for which > advertising and subscription fees are collected. Small and fair nominal > sums > to pay for articles should be included in their budgets and would provide > some modest financial encouragement to potential authors. > > RB > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 16:01:05 -0400 > From: Don Thompson <robin@...> > Subject: Re: "S" Quote of the week (maybe the year) > > rgajnak@... wrote: > > ...and NOT with evil 3-rail O products. > > > Be seeing you... > > Rich G. > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 16:39:24 EDT > From: rbubeck327@... > Subject: Re: Re: "S" Quote of the week (maybe the year) > > > In a message dated 9/3/01 4:03:06 PM, robin@... writes: > > << rgajnak@... wrote: > > ...and NOT with evil 3-rail O products. > > > Be seeing you... > > Rich G. >> > > Which year? 2001, 1961, 1953,....? <g> > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 17:40:27 -0400 > From: Don Thompson <robin@...> > Subject: Re: Re: "S" Quote of the week (maybe the year) > > Dear Rich, > Good point...Every year! > Don > > rbubeck327@... wrote: > > > In a message dated 9/3/01 4:03:06 PM, robin@... writes: > > > > << rgajnak@... wrote: > > > > ...and NOT with evil 3-rail O products. > > > > > Be seeing you... > > > Rich G. >> > > > > Which year? 2001, 1961, 1953,....? <g> > > -- Don Thompson > S Helper Service Inc. > http://www.showcaseline.com > 1.800.465.0303 > F-3s and Double Sheathed boxcars are now shipping! > http://www.showcaseline.com/emdf3s_in_stock.html > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 21:44:38 -0400 > From: "Tom Stolte" <oddballdecal@...> > Subject: New decals from Oddballs Decals - N, S, HO and O scales. > > 652 ATSF assorted station sign names from around the ATSF system, 2 of > each > name (present) 12 inch black lettering for the Sunrise Enterprises cast > station sign. > > 653 UP M of W trucks. (1990's+) Trucks are painted white. Red, white, blue > and yellow stripes. Set will letter 9 trucks. Has the > small 3 color UP herald. > > 654 BN M of W trucks. (1980's+) Trucks are painted BN green and BN orange. > Black & white lettering. Set will letter 9 trucks of each > color. Total of 18 trucks. Has the small BN 5 1/4" BN logo. > > 655 ATSF M of W trucks. (1970's+) Trucks are painted white. Blue lettering > & stripes. Set will letter 12 trucks. Has the small ATSF > circle/cross herald, plus the 38" Santa Fe spelled out lettering that fits > on the side of the door. > > New catalog now on CD. PDF format. $5.00. Comes with Adobe reader. > > The N scale sets will letter 2 or 3 cars. S & O scale will letter 1 car. > > All the above decals refer to HO scale kits on the market. These will > also work for other scales. Just pick a car of your choice in the other > scales. > > Prefix numbers for N scale 60-. HO scale 87-. S scale 64-. O scale 48-. > N & HO scale retail price $3.25. S & O scale retail price $6.50. These > should be in your favorite hobby shop within the next month or so. > > If ordering direct, please include $1.75 for p&h. Up to date catalog N, > HO, S & O scale, $6.00, plus $1.75 for p&h. You buy this catalog once, > then every 3 months or so, send me a LSSAE for updates. Fits in a 3 ring > binder. > > --- > --- > Tom Stolte - Oddballs Decals > N, HO, S & O Scale Model Railroad Decals > 26550 227th Street; McLouth, Kansas 66054 > Phone: 913-727-6649 - oddballdecal@... > Web site http://www.oddballsdecals.com/ > Subscribe: OddballsDecals-subscribe@yahoogroups.com > Missouri Pacific Photos Web Page: http://www.trainweb.org/mopac/ > NMRA Member #121756 > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 6 > Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 05:18:59 -0000 > From: eighthmile@... > Subject: Re: Re: "S" Quote of the week (maybe the year) > > Isn't the term "evil 3-rail" somewhat redundant? :^) > > Chuck F. > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 7 > Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 08:30:21 -0400 > From: Glenn Ritter <gartrain@...> > Subject: Re: Re: S Gaugian & CTT..... > > I have experienced in both CTT & > S-Gaugian that it is not just the cost > of the photographs but they want you > to take extra hours to present them > in very specific ways that cost more in > time and money than say our NASG > Dispatch which has some fine articles, > takes less time and the photos are visible. > When we read CTT or Model Railroader > the layouts are beyond what many of us > have time to build or enjoy. Also CTT > is drawing from 80,000 "O" gaugers > and we may only have 10,000 active > "S" gaugers who would rather enjoy > our layouts than build to what CTT expects. > > rbubeck327@... wrote: > In a message dated 9/2/01 3:23:43 PM, WJJIM@... writes: > > << It just could be that both mags plus the various clubs and > organizations > involved in the toy/scale train hobby lack the quantity of good, well > written, informative articles we like to see. Must be many among us who > could share pictures, stories etc. if we put our fingers to keyboards. >> > > A good thought, Jim, and this is done by folks on a limited basis. A > principal problem, however, is that publishers in our hobby often offer to > non-staffers insufficent to no remuneration. Not to imply that one should > expect to get rich from occasional freelancing, but in many instances the > money is not enough to reimburse one for photographic expenses. It should > be > remembered that the publishers are running for profit businesses for which > advertising and subscription fees are collected. Small and fair nominal > sums > to pay for articles should be included in their budgets and would provide > some modest financial encouragement to potential authors. > > RB > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14613	From: Michael Greene	Date: 9/4/2001
Subject: Re: Magazines, authors, and publishing

Depending on your objectives, self-publishing can easily be achieved in this Internet age. It costs you very little to publish to the Internet, you can control the format if desired using a format like PDF, and most importantly you can preserve and protect your copyright and ability to re-use in any media or variation you desire. When it comes to commercial model rail magazines, authors are at the bottom of the food chain IMHO. Why should an author give an article to a publisher, wait for to be published at the publisher's discretion, and lose your copyright and ability to re-use in other media, other variations, etc.? Perhaps the hobby could use a place for author's to self-publish their articles, while protecting their rights. (No I'm not offering to start such a item), but club web sites, NASG Dispatch, etc. are all good alternatives... Michael At 01:40 PM 9/4/2001 -0500, Carl Tuveson wrote: >This is fhe perfect use of this forum. You can still submit your pet >projects and tips for all to benefit from. Publish them in the files section >for downloading and future reference. > >Carl > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: davedesian@... [SMTP:davedesian@...] > > Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 12:09 PM > > To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [S-Trains] S Gaugian Magazine > > > > > > I enjoy kit bashing a model or making something that is not commercially > > available. We are a scale/gauge of can-do people. I have written how-to > > articles on many of the projects that I have under taken over the years. > > > > A number of years ago, I offered a dozen written articles with photos > > and/or drawings to S Gaugian Magazine. I requested for > > payment/compensation a one subscription. I thought that an in-kind > > payment > > on their part would cause the lowest out-of-pocket cost on their behalf. > > My suggestion/request was rejected and my articles were not printed. > > > > From my point of view, the subscription was of more value to me than a > > payment of any amount. I have to believe a subscription for the magazine > > would of been an easy compensation trade on their part. > > > > I know that it takes time and care to prepare an article for print. I > > thought my suggestion was a win/win for both parties. The benefits to > > everyone would be a plentiful of subjects and projects for the readers, > > the > > gratification of seeing ones work in print and the magazine would have a > > surplus of articles to select for each issue. > > > > However, my thoughts were not the same as others. Therefore, I enjoy my > > hobby on a local level. > > > > David Avedesian > > President > > Boston and Maryland Railroad > > Baltimore Area American Flyer Club > > 301 272 8384 w > > 301 938 1811 c > > 301 929 9000 h > > davedesian@... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > S-Trains@yahoogroups.com on 09/04/2001 10:18:41 AM > > > > Please respond to S-Trains@yahoogroups.com > > > > To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com > > cc: > > > > Subject: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1133 > > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > There are 7 messages in this issue. > > > > Topics in this digest: > > > > 1. Re: Re: S Gaugian & CTT..... > > From: rbubeck327@... > > 2. Re: "S" Quote of the week (maybe the year) > > From: Don Thompson <robin@...> > > 3. Re: Re: "S" Quote of the week (maybe the year) > > From: rbubeck327@... > > 4. Re: Re: "S" Quote of the week (maybe the year) > > From: Don Thompson <robin@...> > > 5. New decals from Oddballs Decals - N, S, HO and O scales. > > From: "Tom Stolte" <oddballdecal@...> > > 6. Re: Re: "S" Quote of the week (maybe the year) > > From: eighthmile@... > > 7. Re: Re: S Gaugian & CTT..... > > From: Glenn Ritter <gartrain@...> > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 11:46:20 EDT > > From: rbubeck327@... > > Subject: Re: Re: S Gaugian & CTT..... > > > > > > In a message dated 9/2/01 3:23:43 PM, WJJIM@... writes: > > > > << It just could be that both mags plus the various clubs and > > organizations > > involved in the toy/scale train hobby lack the quantity of good, well > > written, informative articles we like to see. Must be many among us who > > could share pictures, stories etc. if we put our fingers to keyboards. >> > > > > A good thought, Jim, and this is done by folks on a limited basis. A > > principal problem, however, is that publishers in our hobby often offer to > > non-staffers insufficent to no remuneration. Not to imply that one should > > expect to get rich from occasional freelancing, but in many instances the > > money is not enough to reimburse one for photographic expenses. It should > > be > > remembered that the publishers are running for profit businesses for which > > advertising and subscription fees are collected. Small and fair nominal > > sums > > to pay for articles should be included in their budgets and would provide > > some modest financial encouragement to potential authors. > > > > RB > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > > > Message: 2 > > Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 16:01:05 -0400 > > From: Don Thompson <robin@...> > > Subject: Re: "S" Quote of the week (maybe the year) > > > > rgajnak@... wrote: > > > > ...and NOT with evil 3-rail O products. > > > > > Be seeing you... > > > Rich G. > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > > > Message: 3 > > Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 16:39:24 EDT > > From: rbubeck327@... > > Subject: Re: Re: "S" Quote of the week (maybe the year) > > > > > > In a message dated 9/3/01 4:03:06 PM, robin@... writes: > > > > << rgajnak@... wrote: > > > > ...and NOT with evil 3-rail O products. > > > > > Be seeing you... > > > Rich G. >> > > > > Which year? 2001, 1961, 1953,....? <g> > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > > > Message: 4 > > Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 17:40:27 -0400 > > From: Don Thompson <robin@...> > > Subject: Re: Re: "S" Quote of the week (maybe the year) > > > > Dear Rich, > > Good point...Every year! > > Don > > > > rbubeck327@... wrote: > > > > > In a message dated 9/3/01 4:03:06 PM, robin@... writes: > > > > > > << rgajnak@... wrote: > > > > > > ...and NOT with evil 3-rail O products. > > > > > > > Be seeing you... > > > > Rich G. >> > > > > > > Which year? 2001, 1961, 1953,....? <g> > > > > -- Don Thompson > > S Helper Service Inc. > > http://www.showcaseline.com > > 1.800.465.0303 > > F-3s and Double Sheathed boxcars are now shipping! > > http://www.showcaseline.com/emdf3s_in_stock.html > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > > > Message: 5 > > Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 21:44:38 -0400 > > From: "Tom Stolte" <oddballdecal@...> > > Subject: New decals from Oddballs Decals - N, S, HO and O scales. > > > > 652 ATSF assorted station sign names from around the ATSF system, 2 of > > each > > name (present) 12 inch black lettering for the Sunrise Enterprises cast > > station sign. > > > > 653 UP M of W trucks. (1990's+) Trucks are painted white. Red, white, blue > > and yellow stripes. Set will letter 9 trucks. Has the > > small 3 color UP herald. > > > > 654 BN M of W trucks. (1980's+) Trucks are painted BN green and BN orange. > > Black & white lettering. Set will letter 9 trucks of each > > color. Total of 18 trucks. Has the small BN 5 1/4" BN logo. > > > > 655 ATSF M of W trucks. (1970's+) Trucks are painted white. Blue lettering > > & stripes. Set will letter 12 trucks. Has the small ATSF > > circle/cross herald, plus the 38" Santa Fe spelled out lettering that fits > > on the side of the door. > > > > New catalog now on CD. PDF format. $5.00. Comes with Adobe reader. > > > > The N scale sets will letter 2 or 3 cars. S & O scale will letter 1 car. > > > > All the above decals refer to HO scale kits on the market. These will > > also work for other scales. Just pick a car of your choice in the other > > scales. > > > > Prefix numbers for N scale 60-. HO scale 87-. S scale 64-. O scale 48-. > > N & HO scale retail price $3.25. S & O scale retail price $6.50. These > > should be in your favorite hobby shop within the next month or so. > > > > If ordering direct, please include $1.75 for p&h. Up to date catalog N, > > HO, S & O scale, $6.00, plus $1.75 for p&h. You buy this catalog once, > > then every 3 months or so, send me a LSSAE for updates. Fits in a 3 ring > > binder. > > > > --- > > --- > > Tom Stolte - Oddballs Decals > > N, HO, S & O Scale Model Railroad Decals > > 26550 227th Street; McLouth, Kansas 66054 > > Phone: 913-727-6649 - oddballdecal@... > > Web site http://www.oddballsdecals.com/ > > Subscribe: OddballsDecals-subscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Missouri Pacific Photos Web Page: http://www.trainweb.org/mopac/ > > NMRA Member #121756 > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > > > Message: 6 > > Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 05:18:59 -0000 > > From: eighthmile@... > > Subject: Re: Re: "S" Quote of the week (maybe the year) > > > > Isn't the term "evil 3-rail" somewhat redundant? :^) > > > > Chuck F. > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > > > Message: 7 > > Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 08:30:21 -0400 > > From: Glenn Ritter <gartrain@...> > > Subject: Re: Re: S Gaugian & CTT..... > > > > I have experienced in both CTT & > > S-Gaugian that it is not just the cost > > of the photographs but they want you > > to take extra hours to present them > > in very specific ways that cost more in > > time and money than say our NASG > > Dispatch which has some fine articles, > > takes less time and the photos are visible. > > When we read CTT or Model Railroader > > the layouts are beyond what many of us > > have time to build or enjoy. Also CTT > > is drawing from 80,000 "O" gaugers > > and we may only have 10,000 active > > "S" gaugers who would rather enjoy > > our layouts than build to what CTT expects. > > > > rbubeck327@... wrote: > > In a message dated 9/2/01 3:23:43 PM, WJJIM@... writes: > > > > << It just could be that both mags plus the various clubs and > > organizations > > involved in the toy/scale train hobby lack the quantity of good, well > > written, informative articles we like to see. Must be many among us who > > could share pictures, stories etc. if we put our fingers to keyboards. >> > > > > A good thought, Jim, and this is done by folks on a limited basis. A > > principal problem, however, is that publishers in our hobby often offer to > > non-staffers insufficent to no remuneration. Not to imply that one should > > expect to get rich from occasional freelancing, but in many instances the > > money is not enough to reimburse one for photographic expenses. It should > > be > > remembered that the publishers are running for profit businesses for which > > advertising and subscription fees are collected. Small and fair nominal > > sums > > to pay for articles should be included in their budgets and would provide > > some modest financial encouragement to potential authors. > > > > RB > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to >s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14614	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/4/2001
Subject: S Gaugian Magazine & article payment

As one who has sent articles, and some printed, and some rejected (that were later accepted by CTT, paid for, and not published!), I feel your pain! ;-) (sorry, couldn't resist!). I too, think an extension of subscription would be an "inexpensive" way for them to compensate, but they think sending a nice paper "Award" is enough thank-you. As to the cost of photographing, I always felt that was part of the creative process of writing the article, and I do it myself, but I can understand that not everyone enjoys photography. I might point out, however; if you're going to sell something on eBay, you have to photograph it (if you expect any good bids). My last item went for $2.00 (and I paid $2.50 for it, but that's another story!). Hmm, maybe that's what the expensive "shipping costs" are about, paying for the bid preparation! I shouldn't think while I type, the thoughts aren't always clear, and the smoke haze from the brain overload makes it hard to read the screen. S' David " I'll keep on writin' " Dewey

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14615	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 9/4/2001
Subject: Publishing S Stuff

As always I would love to publish any S related material on the web. I also encourage folks to try and publish their stuff in the paper versions also. I think it is great that when folks log onto the net they see 'tons' of S stuff. ===== Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com Photography - Computers - Trains __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14616	From: Charlie&Edith	Date: 9/4/2001
Subject: Repair question

We are new to the computer and recently found this forum. As there seems to be a lot of knowledge present perhaps someone will have a suggestion/solution for a problem 360-661 AF diesel? I have installed new chasis and preformed all the suggested "tune-ups" and adjustments but I cannot get both motors to run at the same speed. A meter check brings the same readings for the armatures and the same readings for the fields. Switching the armatures switches the "problem". This engine will pull its 3 Alum. Passenger cars now, but not with the same speed as a Steamer. Is this the best I can expect or is there something else I can do? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14617	From: richard_snook@primus.com.au	Date: 9/4/2001
Subject: Re: S Gaugian Magazine

A curious thing strikes me about the way Don ( good on him for what hes' done!!) Heimberger goes about remuneration for articles!! ( oxymoron..I know)....you see Don doesnt expect anything for nothing when hes contra dealing with other Publishers to run ads...yet he wont cough up for an article....after some effort is made...and well no articles....no mag!!! A pro-rata subscription seems very fair to me...am surprised he doesnt do this!!... I think no payment at all for a commercial mag..is well ( very clever on his part...and a bit of a raw deal to the authors!!) Hes prepared to shell out it seems on one hand..and not another..maybe there is a good explanation for this....Id like to hear it. Not attempting to be-smerch anyone....just seems a bit of an anomaly. So Don...not having a personal go at ya!! far from it.... just why is it S Guagian doesnt pay?? Dont expect the Dispatch to...nor would I the Bulletin etc... just curious >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14618	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 9/4/2001
Subject: Re: S Gaugian Magazine

Richard wrote: >A curious thing strikes me about the way Don ( good on him for what >hes' done!!) Heimberger goes about remuneration for articles!! ( >oxymoron..I know)....you see Don doesnt expect anything for nothing >when hes contra dealing with other Publishers to run ads...yet he >wont cough up for an article....just why is it S Guagian doesnt pay?? I've wondered about that myself. I suspect it has to do with the way S Gaugian began: as a hobby. DH is so accustomed doing the mag as a labor of love, he apparently expects any contributors to do the same. Of course, years ago Don began making S Gaugian pay it's own way, but the changeover didn't spill into the way contributors are regarded. Imo, that change is overdue, and would improve the quality of the articles and the mag, but it's tough to begin paying for something after getting used to having it for nothing. (I'm reminded of certain homepage webspace providers...) Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14619	From: richard_snook@primus.com.au	Date: 9/4/2001
Subject: Re: S Gaugian Magazine

> Imo, that change is overdue, and would improve the quality of the > articles and the mag, but it's tough to begin paying for something > after getting used to having it for nothing. > Chuck F. Whilst Im in no way going to comment in any negative about the current level of authorship ( they are doing it for nothing...and doing it well)...I tend to agree with Chuck that there might be many a contributor prepared to step up to bat...if they were compensated in some way...not always money ( but its a good one anyways!! lol ) This might bring a stream of new pens to paper....and in turn bring a new audience. Time is a precious commodity...and Im sure many might happily share their experiences and knowledge...but need prompting....nudge nudge!! (we all have hobby budget to work within) In the overall scheme of things Id be surprised if some effort towards remuneration would seriously dent the overheads!!....especially if it brought with it a slightly larger circulation!! cheers >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14620	From: Euell Johnson	Date: 9/5/2001
Subject: Re: S Gaugian Magazine

If the truth be known, I bet his circulation is so small that he has little profit from it. We couldn't live on that profit! I can see where there are certain standards that must be met in the way an article is laid out and the tupes and numbers od photos that musy be used with the article. Think about it. It truly is almost a labor of love. That is what a hobby is. Precious few of us anymore are able to make a sound income from our hobby, from something that we really love. It would be womderful if he could commission use to write and article. But I doubt if many of use really know how to do the magazine layout work and have the ability to really profrssionally edit the raticles. Ley praise him, not become frustrated by this wonderful hobby. EJ ----- Original Message ----- From: <eighthmile@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 12:40 AM Subject: [S-Trains] Re: S Gaugian Magazine > Richard wrote: > > >A curious thing strikes me about the way Don ( good on him for what > >hes' done!!) Heimberger goes about remuneration for articles!! ( > >oxymoron..I know)....you see Don doesnt expect anything for nothing > >when hes contra dealing with other Publishers to run ads...yet he > >wont cough up for an article....just why is it S Guagian doesnt pay?? > > I've wondered about that myself. I suspect it has to do with the way > S Gaugian began: as a hobby. DH is so accustomed doing the mag as a > labor of love, he apparently expects any contributors to do the same. > Of course, years ago Don began making S Gaugian pay it's own way, but > the changeover didn't spill into the way contributors are regarded. > Imo, that change is overdue, and would improve the quality of the > articles and the mag, but it's tough to begin paying for something > after getting used to having it for nothing. (I'm reminded of certain > homepage webspace providers...) > > Chuck F. > > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14621	From: joe messinger	Date: 9/5/2001
Subject: S-Gauging Articles

Funny thing, the subject of articles has come up regarding S-Gaugian. Awhile back, at the suggestion of several people on this list, I wrote to Jeff Madden at the magazine's office and inquired as to if he might be interested in and article about building Flyer 3/4" motors (for steam locos) using 1/2" motor components. I offered photos to go with the text. Actually, I've written twice now, the first time being last year. I understand that they don't pay anything for an article. Pay wasn't my objective. No one at the magazine ever bothered to answer my queries. Even if they're not interested, I would think they might, at least, acknowledge a request for submission. I have written articles for several fly fishing and outdoor related magazines. Some have a small circulation and some circulate millions of copies monthly. They all respond to an author's submission even if it's to say, "No thanks". Most also pay for an article if they accept it, and a complimentary subscription usually is standard practice. I would like to do whatever I can to help the S hobby. Maybe that's not much, but considering the apparent attitude that the folks at S-Gaugian have, I think I'll try somewhere else. Joe Messinger _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14622	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 9/5/2001
Subject: Re: S-Gauging Articles

Hi Joe, Jeff Madden is with the NASH Dispatch. He will welcome any articles if you are a member of the NASG. I send most articles to him as the S-Gaugian gets fussy about how the articles are submitted as does CTT. Staying on the NPSG branchline of NASG track, Glenn NASG secretary joe messinger wrote: Funny thing, the subject of articles has come up regarding S-Gaugian. Awhile back, at the suggestion of several people on this list, I wrote to Jeff Madden at the magazine's office and inquired as to if he might be interested in and article about building Flyer 3/4" motors (for steam locos) using 1/2" motor components.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14623	From: jfrodgers@rpb-law.com	Date: 9/5/2001
Subject: Bachman On30-Kitbashing

I recently read something in the Dispatch column about narrow gauge that the Bachmann On30's can be kitbashed into S gauge. Anyway I noticed that eHobbies was having a 1/2 price sale on these engines for those who might enjoy such a task. That's more task than my limited skills allow. John Rodgers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14624	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 9/5/2001
Subject: New flex track for AF

I couldn't wait till the December Model Railroad News to let you all in on this. It's IMHO a terrific new product. I uploaded some pictures of the track in the new "Photos" section right under the "Files" section for everyone to look at. Roy > --- nmescher <nmescher@...> wrote:> > Roy,> > > > Can you please post in the Model Railroad News under> > S / Curves> > > > Now available and ready for shipment! American "S"> > Gauge™ 60" Flex > > Track. Without exception, we feel the finest track> > ever made for the > > S-Gauge market. It has the look of the real stuff,> > and the quality to > > back it up. It's the only track out on the market> > that will accept > > original Gilbert track trips, mail pick-up post,> > uncoupler, etc. For a > > limited time only, a special introductory offer.> > Free shipping on all > > flex track orders received before September 30,> > 2001. Dealer inquires > > welcome.> >> > Thank you,> >> > Nick Mescher> > Classic Trains > > American "S" Gauge> > 18927 E.Colima Road> > Rowland Heights, CA 91748> > > > Tel: (626) 912-0774> > Fax: (626) 912-1033> > > > Email: nmescher@...> >> >> >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14625	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 9/5/2001
Subject: Re: Magazine Articles

Keep in mind that it is hard to fit a train related article into any magazine, it has to fit between all of the advertisements, ( March CTT, contained 138 pages, 85 pages of advertisement & only 53 pages of train articles). Advertisers pay dearly for advertising, and we pay to get the advertising, which is the almost the same month after month. I believe that the publisher is doing better than just showing a profit. At $5.00 per copy it is a license to steal. Model Railroader cost $0.35 in the 50's it should cost about $3.50 in today market. I have to go now, out and wait by the mail box for my next issue. Jerry 77-11644 ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14626	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 9/5/2001
Subject: Repairs question

Assuming you moved only the armature and not the field and armature when you say the problem transferred from truck to truck, then the problem is likely with the armature. That can be a number of things. Some you can fix, for others its easier to just get a replacement armature. 1) gook between the commutator segments - - be certain the channels between segements are clear of carbon build up. 2) commutators - -either then aren't clean or they're worn. Clean them with 91% alcohol on a dampened (not dripping wet) cotton cloth. Sand them lightly with 400-600 grit sand paper, wipe clean, and check those channels again (see #1). If worn, this is the hard part, not easy to see, and difficult to re-face back to new. 3) commutator timing - - commutators sometime shift on the shaft of the armature. Look to see if a seg-to-seg channel lines up on the same point on the other armature. 4) armature bearings - - those brass bearings that stay on the armature may be worn more on one armature than the other. Compare the degree of play and see if you can see or feel any appreciable difference. Replacement bearings are available. 5) armature size - - the pre-pulmor armatures in 360's have coil windings 2-3 mm's shorter than those in the later pulmor engines (e.g. 470). Someone may have slipped one in over the years, although a pulmor armature's field [wider to match the armature] will not seat properly in the orginal chassis of a non-pulmor PA. Be sure both your armatures are of the same winding size. And have matching fields. 6) armature windings - - the wire needs to be without direct or low grade shorts. If direct it won't spin, if low-grade (leak) it will but not very efficiently/well. Sounds like your seg-to-seg ohms are OK, so this may not be the problem. 7) bent armature shaft - - hand spin the armature while in the chassis and field. Are there any points around a rotation that feel more resistant than others? Could be the armature shaft is bent, or the armature field is not centered on the armature. An armature in an PA/GP chassis should turn easily by hand with little force required. 8) worm gear wear or damage - - hand turning can sometime tell you this, otherwise look at the good armature worms with a magnifying glass, look at the bad, see more wear spots or difference in profile? Worms can be replaced. 9) rough end - - this is very unlikely, but check the ends of the armature shaft, they should be smooth and rounded. Any roughness will interfere with it spinning in one direction more than the other. 10) lubrication - - both armatures should have small drops of medium oil (be careful not to get any on the commutators) on their bearings, and grease on their worm and drive gears. Good luck, and have fun with your Flyer. Dave [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14627	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 9/5/2001
Subject: Re: S-Gauging Articles

Twice a year at York, the folks from OGR apologize to a friend of mine because their photographer still has not made an appointment to photograph his layout with all the scratch-built (and well built, too) buildings. Could be a series of articles on how they were made/how to make them. This has been going on for three (3)yrs. Guess it is tough to fit the meat in between the bread. Jim Lyle [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14628	From: rgajnak@earthlink.net	Date: 9/5/2001
Subject: Re: Bachman On30-Kitbashing

--- In S-Trains@y..., jfrodgers@r... wrote: > I recently read something in the Dispatch column about narrow gauge > that the Bachmann On30's can be kitbashed into S gauge. Anyway I > noticed that eHobbies was having a 1/2 price sale on these engines for > those who might enjoy such a task. That's more task than my limited > skills allow. > > John Rodgers Probably a going out of business sale. According to the September Model Railroader, eHobbies is pulling the plug. No termination date was given. But, Bachmann's On30 box, stock, gondola, flat and tank car could convert rather easily in to some nice old time equipment. The coaches, caboose, porter and 2-6-0 would take a little work. Next up from Bachmann, an On30 T-boilered two truck shay that may also show some promise. Be seeing you... Rich G.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14629	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 9/5/2001
Subject: Re: "S" Quote of the week

Ronald Reagan weighed in on this issue. He said, "Um, uh, anyone who models the Great Northern railway in 0 gauge is an Evil Empire Builder." Or was that George Bush (the elder). No, wouldn't be prudent. CZ

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14630	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 9/5/2001
Subject: Re: S Gaugian

I have had a little experience with magazine publishers and I have found that they do not take well to having terms dictated to them. Even if they offer large sums for an article, they do not want to switch that to a free subscription (which is handled by the Circulation Dept. anyway.) You said you had multiple articles. That's like a three picture deal . . . too open ended for people who sign contracts and pay lawyers and look at the down side. Anything out of the ordinary, where they are on the sure ground of monotonous repitition, will be thrown out. Forget the common sense you know when you are playing catch in someone else's ballpark. CZ

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14631	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 9/5/2001
Subject: Re: [toytrains] Digest Number 858

Anyone living near the PRR main line from Philadelphia to Paradise or who might be a READING fan, the only operating READING FP-7 diesel locomotives, 902 & 903 are running from 30th Street Station to Strasburg Station and return on Sat Sept 8. They will be pulling SEPTA commuter cars on the first scheduled run EVER between these two locations. As soon as I have more info I will post. Williams modeled the 902 & 903, unfortunately making the 903 a "B" unit (toy train tie-in). Tix are also still available. Contact off list for info. Jim Lyle [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14632	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 9/5/2001
Subject: Re: Repair question

Charlie and Edith Hancock write: > I cannot get both motors to run at the same speed (in a) 360-661 (361? sic) AF diesel. Switching the armatures switches the "problem". Dear C&E: I think the armature switchover tells us that the armature itself is the problem. There were many other possibilities until you said this. If these are rewound armatures, they are not rewound to the same number of turns. If the field were the problem, the speed difference would have stayed on the truck. It moved when the armature moved. Send BOTH armatures back to the rewinder and ask for a matched set. He can sell these two to single motor diesel owners. Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14633	From: richard_snook@primus.com.au	Date: 9/5/2001
Subject: Re: S Gaugian

> that they do not take well to having terms dictated to them. Even if they > offer large sums for an article, they do not want to switch that to a free > subscription (which is handled by the Circulation Dept. anyway.) I think the point here is that Heimberger Pubs is not a Collosal enterprise...and the idea of a subscription or pro-rata part thereof might be an easy amicable way of rewarding the author for his contribution to what IS a commercial outcome!! As there are always a few freeies thrown around the traps...advertisers etc...its not going to dent HP Inc too much to dish out a few to compensate for the input....surely...yet this act of co-operation will be much appreciated I bet by modelers scrimping with their budgets!! Personally I think in this day and age...any contribution to a commercial press , expected as gratis...is a bit rich!!...someone is having their cake and eating it too I dont want to entertain anyones opinion on what Don has done for the hobby..there is no arguement...this is an isolated issue ( no pun intended) that is...how does a commercial mag get away with not paying....maybe its all honky-dory and the status quo is maintained....but as the subject has been broached, then I would tend to feel that the magazine could grow and develop if it adopted a more realistic ( my opinion) stance to payment. cheers >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14634	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 9/5/2001
Subject: Re: S Gaugian

No trick to having their cake and eating it. They are eating their cake and still have it. On Thu, 06 Sep 2001 01:07:16 -0000 richard_snook@... writes: > > > that they do not take well to having terms dictated to them. > Even > if they > > offer large sums for an article, they do not want to switch that > to > a free > > subscription (which is handled by the Circulation Dept. anyway.) > > > > I think the point here is that Heimberger Pubs is not a Collosal > enterprise...and the idea of a subscription or pro-rata part thereof > > might be an easy amicable way of rewarding the author for his > contribution to what IS a commercial outcome!! > > As there are always a few freeies thrown around the > traps...advertisers etc...its not going to dent HP Inc too much to > dish out a few to compensate for the input....surely...yet this act > of > co-operation will be much appreciated I bet by modelers scrimping > with > their budgets!! > > Personally I think in this day and age...any contribution to a > commercial press , expected as gratis...is a bit rich!!...someone is > > having their cake and eating it too > > I dont want to entertain anyones opinion on what Don has done for > the > hobby..there is no arguement...this is an isolated issue ( no pun > intended) that is...how does a commercial mag get away with not > paying....maybe its all honky-dory and the status quo is > maintained....but as the subject has been broached, then I would > tend > to feel that the magazine could grow and develop if it adopted a > more > realistic ( my opinion) stance to payment. > > cheers > >:~)) > Richard > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14635	From: richard_snook@primus.com.au	Date: 9/5/2001
Subject: s-guagian

A number of comments in response to some arings have sponsored the idea that it is not uncommon in niche marketed periodicals ...to have material supplied gratis. Yes I agree..( what isnt there to agree to..lol) And yes Mr Heinnburger ( apologies for previous mispellings) does put it up front !! no doubting that.. and things may well, probably will continue in this vein. My point is simply....a periodical with a supposed circ measured in the thousands...am told somewhere between 5 and 10...open to confirmations...must surely be able to come to the party with say "gratis" subs ( in same spirit as articles...ne'cest pas??) even if pro rata.......the real cost wont even be the advertised subs price...but becomes a win/win for all around We are talking about possible widening the apppeal of the magazine by a simple reward for time expended. This expanded interst in readership may also prompt extra revenue from new advertising!! and so on. I'd be almost prepared to lay bets that there are at least 20 current S-Modelers who who be very intersted in contributing to S-Guagian ( and so benefit all) if there was a little cherry to be had!! But of course that might entail change!!! cant have that now :-) cheers >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14636	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 9/5/2001
Subject: Re: S Gaugian Magazine

Richard wrote: >Whilst Im in no way going to comment in any negative about the >current level of authorship ( they are doing it for nothing...and >doing it well)... I wasn't throwing rocks at S Gaugian's current level of quality, just pointing out that it would probably change for the better if some type of compensation were offered to contributors. (It certainly wouldn't hurt.) If nothing else, there would be more material to choose from. But, DH may be getting all he needs now. At any rate, things can always be improved, even if they are already done well. Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14637	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 9/5/2001
Subject: Re: S Gaugian

Richard wrote: >but as the subject has been broached, then I would tend >to feel that the magazine could grow and develop if it adopted a >more realistic ( my opinion) stance to payment. I would tend to agree, that's precisely what I was getting at. >Personally I think in this day and age...any contribution to a >commercial press , expected as gratis...is a bit rich!!...someone is >having their cake and eating it too And there's the Internet. These days, if I were doing an article without compensation, I would be more inclined to write it for a website, especially if pictures were involved. Rather than deal with 35mm slides and snail-mail and such, it's much easier (and cheaper) to zap the whole pile of ones and zeros to a webmaster. I can't help but wonder if that alternative will cut increasingly into DH's contributor base, eventually making compensation mandatory for S Gaugian's suvival. Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14638	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 9/5/2001
Subject: Re: New flex track for AF

Looks good! Makes me REALLY want to replace the Gargraves on my layout with this track... Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14639	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 9/6/2001
Subject: Re: New flex track for AF

The track does look real nice. Where can it be purchased? Roger Petrella Franktown, CO eighthmile@... wrote: > Looks good! Makes me REALLY want to replace the Gargraves on my > layout with this track... > > Chuck F. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14640	From: roy inman	Date: 9/6/2001
Subject: S-Gaugian

To Richard, et al: Concerning the S-Gaugian, it isn't a matter of "change," it is a matter of the realities of the publishing world. Yes, you can bet your boots that if SG offered real compensation, the pros would come out of the woodwork. Take a look at CTT to see what a decent day rate will buy a publisher in terms of photo quality and wordsmithing. But CTT's circulation is five times greater than SG's, according to easily found subscription figures on the net. When a publisher is buying less than about 10,000 of anything-magazines, news papers, etc., the price PER UNIT goes way up. As soon as the press run gets over about 10,000 the price PER UNIT goes way down, and consequently the profits go way up. And after how many years of publishing? the SG, based on no payment to contributors-my guess is that the budget is figured so closely, and extra issues are so limited (given the small production run) that DH feels he can't afford it. He probably figures that anyone contributing is a subscriber already. By giving a free subscription, DH is eroding his already miniscule subscription base. In addition, ad rates are based on PAID subscriptions, not freebies. And given the small subscription base, ten or twenty or more freebies could possibility affect ad rates negatively. It all goes back to numbers. If the S ranks increase dramatically, as did the high rail O market after MTH jumped in, then we might see SG looking something like CTT. Until then, what we see is what we get. An astute editor for whom I worked in a previous life was confronted with an irritated (and irritating) reader who asked why the paper wasn't better. The editor replied, "Well, you get what you deserve." Our numbers are small, our expenditures (compared to the O gauge guys) are small, so there we are. Respectfully submitted, Roy Inman

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14641	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 9/6/2001
Subject: Re: New flex track for AF

Roger, He gave me the following to put in MRN: Nick Mescher Classic Trains American "S" Gauge 18927 E.Colima Road Rowland Heights, CA 91748 Tel: (626) 912-0774 Fax: (626) 912-1033 Email: nmescher@... I was also informed of the following url for this product on Craig's website: http://trainweb.com/crocon/strack.html Hope this helps. Roy --- In S-Trains@y..., "Roger V. Petrella Jr." <rogerpjr@i...> wrote: > The track does look real nice. Where can it be purchased? > > Roger Petrella > Franktown, CO > > > eighthmile@m... wrote: > > > Looks good! Makes me REALLY want to replace the Gargraves on my > > layout with this track... > > > > Chuck F. > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains- unsubscribe@Y... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14642	From: sigma@ecn.ab.ca	Date: 9/6/2001
Subject: Re: S-Gaugian

S Gaugian a labor of love? Don't make me laugh. It's the house organ for Heimburger's other enterprises and because it's the only place his rival S-scale suppliers can advertise they pay him to produce it. He argues that we should contribute gratis for the benefit of S scale, but he does not publish his magazine gratis, or for the benefit of anyone but Don Heimburger. And while I gladly do freebies for charitable organizations I won't do them for commercial enterprises. I have suggested what I thought was a reasonable compromise: a pair of trucks or even a pair of couplers per article. I get the song and dance about publication policy. But policy or no policy some contributors get free subscriptions. Some are more equal than others, I guess. Joe Pereira email: sigma@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14643	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 9/6/2001
Subject: New flex track for AF

Roy: Is this the new nickle-silver stuff I saw advertised in CTT? I notice that you have Flyer switches plugged directly into it. Is it a Flyer match? Chris Z.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14644	From: Euell Johnson	Date: 9/6/2001
Subject: Re: S-Gaugian

Have we not jumped the track again? We, and I am as guilty as anyone, tend to get off the subject, into religion, politics andnow into how someone else runs his business. Where is our rerailer. EJ ----- Original Message ----- From: <sigma@...> To: "roy inman" <rinphoto@...> Cc: "S-trains" <S-trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 11:22 AM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] S-Gaugian > S Gaugian a labor of love? Don't make me laugh. It's the house organ for > Heimburger's other enterprises and because it's the only place his > rival S-scale suppliers can advertise they pay him to produce it. > He argues that we should contribute gratis for the benefit of S scale, > but he does not publish his magazine gratis, or for the benefit of > anyone but Don Heimburger. And while I gladly do freebies for charitable > organizations I won't do them for commercial enterprises. > I have suggested what I thought was a reasonable compromise: a pair > of trucks or even a pair of couplers per article. I get the song and dance > about publication policy. But policy or no policy some > contributors get free subscriptions. > Some are more equal than others, I guess. > Joe Pereira > > email: sigma@... > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14645	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 9/6/2001
Subject: Re: New flex track for AF

Chris, I'll need help on that one. Maybe you can ask Nick himself because he sent me those pictures I posted. They do show the track connected to AF switches, but since the track is code 172, there must be some sort of track connector that mates the two rail sizes. Craig put a lot of info about them on his website which I gave in an earlier email. Roy --- In S-Trains@y..., Chris Zizzo <busyboy@o...> wrote: > Roy: > Is this the new nickle-silver stuff I saw advertised in CTT? I notice that > you have Flyer switches plugged directly into it. Is it a Flyer match? > > Chris Z.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14646	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 9/6/2001
Subject: Re: S-Gaugian

I do want all to know, that when I asked Don H. for help with Toy Train Open Houses, a case of back issue S-Guagians arrived promptly. Bet we'll ask him again this year. Bet we'll get them, too. Thanks Don for the help. S-Guagian was not the only group to pitch in, NASG came forward quickly and so did Kalmbach, American Models and S-Helper. All of their help was appreciated and most of what was handed out went to teenagers and young adults!! If you are doing something like the Open Houses, these people jumped in quickly to support us. We, (the unaffiliated) are planning more "Open Houses" this yr, stay tuned. Jim Lyle [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14647	From: Richard	Date: 9/6/2001
Subject: that mag!! lol :-)

Roy et all I perfectly understand where youre coming from...and yes I know most of the advertising is indeed paid for...these folks will inevtably receive a copy as proof of ad ( well at least some will....there is always a proportion of run ascribed to this) Its a litlle chicken and egg isnt it regarding growth of a mag...but the sales of S-guagian wont appreciably change until content morphs!!( not a slight against current...just ...well ..it could expand its vistas a little!!) Im not advocating big buck rates for articles...just maybe some subs!!( we arent talking big bucks!!...but a big effect!!)...also..it just seems just downright FAIR !!....efforts should not go unrewarded ?? I spent a few years at a very large publishing group here (OZ)..(make Kalmbach look small potatoes)..so have an appreciation for the dif between a major media production...and a hobby orientated semi co-op effort. The reason I maintain that subs or part there-of as reward is viable..is ..inthe greater scheme of things...a coupla dozen extra mags mailed out a month...isnt really going to cost the world..( and much less than even low rates for articles)......and it seems a nice way of rewarding those who help make the Guagian whatever it is to many..( and could be to a few more ) But Ive flogged this horse long enough!! cheers >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14648	From: Ogauge749050467@aol.com	Date: 9/6/2001
Subject: 1/64 autos

Hi all I was looking at www.diecastdirect.com site and found a bunch of 1/64 autos, trucks, etc. If you go to the site you can click on autos and scroll the pages. There are 25 listed per page and are in mfg alpha order. The company name is Siku so maybe you can search by that name. Anyway it was quite a selection of vehicles. Frank D [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14649	From: LEAHY RUTH A	Date: 9/6/2001
Subject: MTH Buildings

I noticed in the October issue of CTT a Mike's Train House ad showing some new buildings. Has anyone checked out the McDonalds or Mel's Operating Drive-in Diner? If so, how close are they to "S" scale? Any idea what they mean by an operating drive-in diner? Any thoughts on this would be appreciated. Mike Leahy

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14650	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/6/2001
Subject: WP in the Feather River Canyon

Hi All, Well, the PRM train did happen, and there's a pic I took of it on the Web. This is almost my only pic, as my truck blew a head gasket (or worse, don't know yet) and was merrily bubbling coolant on the ground behind me when I took the pic. (I was able to mostly coast back home, thank goodness for hills!) You can go to: http://railroadnews.net/news/9-6.html to see and read about it,or for just the pic, go to: http://railroadnews.net/newsimages/frrsspecial.jpg S'ee ya later! David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14651	From: gino restivo	Date: 9/6/2001
Subject: Re: MTH Buildings

you drive up , girl comes out to take you order , last of the idea's i gave them during my employment ! of course I WILL NEVER GET CREDIT FOR IT ......... no further comment have fun , Gino S.R . # 67 6-92 / 3-96 -----Original Message----- From: LEAHY RUTH A <ruth.leahy@...> To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Date: Thursday, September 06, 2001 9:25 PM Subject: [S-Trains] MTH Buildings >I noticed in the October issue of CTT a Mike's Train House ad showing some >new buildings. Has anyone checked out the McDonalds or Mel's Operating >Drive-in Diner? If so, how close are they to "S" scale? Any idea what >they mean by an operating drive-in diner? Any thoughts on this would be >appreciated. > >Mike Leahy > > > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > --------------------------------------------------------------- NetZero Platinum Only $9.95 per month! Sign up in September to win one of 30 Hawaiian Vacations for 2! http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14652	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 9/6/2001
Subject: Re: MTH Buildings

Mike, My WIFE made me buy the Mels diner last week when we saw it at the store. It comes with 1/43 scale cars which I immediately through in the trash and replaced with 1/64 scale cars. The piece undes one of the cars has to be replicated for the 1/64 scale care in order for it to become a moving vehicle. I haven't done this yet, but it looks very easy. The diner lightd up inside and out. Looks very 50's/60's with simulated red neon light on the outside with a flashingtower of 5 bulbs on top.When started by pushing the button, you hear a car start up, then a 60's type song begins to play as the Car in the back of the diner is moved forward by a moving piece in the base. The car continues around until it is in a parking space. A pair of waitreese then move in and out at the same time. When one is in, the other comes out and turns to face the car. The music then stops while the order is placed. Music starts up again and the waitresses change positions again while the music plays again. Next, they deliver food. to each car, you hear some more talking, alternating with the music. Finally, you hear the car start again then the music as the car backs out of it's space. It is a really neat piece fo the 120.00 dollars that it cost me. The wives will love it. Hope this helps a bit. Chris Burger [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14654	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 9/6/2001
Subject: Re: New flex track for AF

I've examined a preproduction piece of their sectional track, and compared it to AF. I asked one of the Meschers about rail height specifically because I'm interested in replacing all the Gargraves (but not the AF) track on our modular system, and the new track would need to line up with AF at certain section joints. He has assured me that the thickness of the ties of both the sectional and flextrack was chosen to match the height of code .172 railhead to AF railhead height, when the AF is mounted in rubber roadbed and the new track is mounted on 1/4" thick roadbed. Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14655	From: Rick Evans	Date: 9/7/2001
Subject: Re: MTH 50's style diner.....

Just how big are these car-hop gals compared to 1/64th cars as opposed to the 1/43rd cars that came with the diner?? The pic of the diner looks cool,..how is the size of the diner compared to 1/64th cars?? Rick "I'll take a Double Chubby-Chuck with cheese" Evans. ((For the movie buffs,....what movie had the "Double Chubby-Chuck"??))

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14656	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 9/7/2001
Subject: NASG Library

I'm pleased to announce that the NASG Board of Directors has approved the Russ Mobley Memorial Library. The library will eventually contain: 1- All S-only magazines past and present. 2- Mainstream magazines with S articles, drawings, etc. 3- Books like Marshall McClintocks AF books. 4- Catalogs, both past and present. 5- A video library of S related video tapes of layouts, clinics, and interviews with our remaining old-timers, etc. 6- Other publications like brochures. 7- How-to and introductory booklets like "Getting Started in S", etc. 8- Artifacts of S gauges past. This material would be made available to clubs and individual NASG members for free or loan depending on the content. We could also be able to provide this material to NASG members involved with youth educational programs. The library will also serve as a source of reference material to provide information to the members on various topics related to S. We would appreciate any donations of material for the library. We'll be forming a library committee and seeking a volunteer or volunteers for Librarian/Historian.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14657	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 9/7/2001
Subject: Flyer/Lionel Sawmill

I just uploaded some pictures of the new Fly-nel Sawmill. http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/sawmill/sawmill.html The movie is about 1 meg and may be too big for folks with a slow internet connection. ===== Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com Photography - Computers - Trains __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14658	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 9/7/2001
Subject: Re: MTH 50's style diner.....

The scale of the diner lookst to be closer to s-scale than o-scale. And the waitresses look to be about 5'8" on roller skates for s and about 5'3" on roller skates for O. My wife is 5'7" in gym shoes, so they look good to me at 5'8". I think it works great for s-gauge. But then, I'll put anything I like on my layout as long as it is close. Chris Burger [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14659	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 9/7/2001
Subject: Re: MTH Buildings

I thought the 1/43 scale cars were too big for the building. The 1/64 look more fitting next to the diner. I am not a scale purist type of guy though. The skaters are about the same size as the guy (louie the loader) driving the forklift on the barrel loader. The way I see it, The louie guy is a short beer belly, union kind of guy, and the skaters are tall, long legged gorgeous car hop babes.So it works for me. Chris Burger [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14660	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 9/7/2001
Subject: Catenary being hung and other news

I have finished a strip of catenary 41 feet long and have nearly finished a strip 28 feet long. When complete I will be hanging it with the longer on the lower level and the shorter just above it in the greater NE corner area. I build my catenary on a open ended 3 foot jig. I finish 3 feet and slide it down. When up it will support both poles and pantographs as there are no switches in this area. I build my catenary for pantographs but have a friend who has pole only equipment -- and his is all North Shore. I have a North Shore coach I have added a pantograph to the front of. As the rear pole is still intact, I have a pole I can test with. Future catenary will have to support both as well and although I have had catenary over five layouts, I have never hung wire for poles. I have read the articles on hanging overhead for poles. I build working, powered catenary for pantographs from just phosphor bronze wire, poles to hold it up, and small springs for tension -- no fancy, expensive castings! The tools are a soldering iron, one pair of nippers, one pair of needle nose pliers, solder, and a tub of RESIN flux. (NEVER, EVER USE ACID FLUX UNLESS YOU ARE USING A TORCH!) No fancy tools here! The real excitement will come should I get a cab-forward. The curves in the NE corner are on plywood cut to 40 and 44 inch radius (all right, 38/42 and 42/46 radius boards) with AF and K-Line track on it. The inner curve is 27-inch curve, full straight, 27-inch curve, full straight, and 27-inch curve. The outer has two half straights too. The cab-forward (should I get one) has scale wheels and requires a minimum of 38 inch radius. So I will have to relay those curves with flex track and rehang the catenary should this happen. Getting this locomotive around the room will ultimately require rebuilding all eight 90 degree curves on my two level layout. Having fun at 20 minutes a day, Thorin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14661	From: Hannon	Date: 9/7/2001
Subject: Donations to NASG Library

Roy: Just read your note on the S-Trains msg board. I would be happy to donate a copy of my book to the Library: A.C. Gilbert's Postwar American Flyer; S-Gauge Reference Manual Locomotives, Rolling Stock & Accessories. ISBN: 0-9710225-0-X LCCN: 2001116907 Are you handling the collection of the material? If so/If not, please send me an address to ship it to, librarian name, and an e-mail address to send update notifications to. Bob Hannon http://www.trainrefs.com P.S. I don't know where this manual fits into David Dewey's Decimal system, but the Library of Congress has it under Engineering.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14662	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 9/7/2001
Subject: Re: Donations to NASG Library

I gave my temporary address to Bob off line. We're grateful for his offer. You can send material to me and I'll keep it until we get a Librarian and then ship it to whoever it is. Let me know and I'll provide a ship-to address. Roy The person who volunteers must be well experienced in the David Dewey Decimal System (grin) --- In S-Trains@y..., Hannon <hannon@e...> wrote: > Roy: > > Just read your note on the S-Trains msg board. I would > be happy to donate a copy of my book to the Library: > > A.C. Gilbert's Postwar American Flyer; S-Gauge Reference Manual > Locomotives, Rolling Stock & Accessories. > ISBN: 0-9710225-0-X > LCCN: 2001116907 > > Are you handling the collection of the material? If so/If not, > please send me an address to ship it to, librarian name, and > an e-mail address to send update notifications to. > > Bob Hannon > http://www.trainrefs.com > > P.S. > > I don't know where this manual fits into David Dewey's > Decimal system, but the Library of Congress has it > under Engineering.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14663	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 9/7/2001
Subject: Re: Donations to NASG Library

We should also start donations of funds toward the purchase of a building. I am licensed as an architect in PA, NJ, NY, OH & MD. I would travel to detail the renovations. An old train station would be nice. Maybe a railroad would sell us the building rights on their property. Any ideas? Glenn Roy Hoffman wrote: I gave my temporary address to Bob off line. We're grateful for his offer. You can send material to me and I'll keep it until we get a Librarian and then ship it to whoever it is. Let me know and I'll provide a ship-to address. Roy The person who volunteers must be well experienced in the David Dewey Decimal System (grin)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14664	From: Mike Vana	Date: 9/7/2001
Subject: A question about magazines

I heard a claim once that when the model railroad magazines get items for reviews, they don't return them, but instead keep them. Does anybody know if that's true? What would they do with the stuff if they kept it? Mike Vana Omaha, NE.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14665	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 9/7/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, September 9, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14666	From: Michael Christensen	Date: 9/7/2001
Subject: American Flyer Lionel new sawmill

Paul Yorke's photos of the new Sawmill look great. Any one seen Gabe The Lamplighter ( Lionel)?? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14667	From: Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S.	Date: 9/7/2001
Subject: Re: A question about magazines

Mike Vana wrote: > > I heard a claim once that when the model railroad magazines get items > for reviews, they don't return them, but instead keep them. Does anybody > know if that's true? What would they do with the stuff if they kept it? > That is pretty much a true statement. Most mags accept gratis products for review. Usually, the reviewer is given the product in exchange for doing the review, writing some text and taking some photos. In some case, such as with high-priced brass locos, the model may simply be borrowed and returned. Take care, Bill -- ============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-643-1105 FAX: 813-681-7326 B.T.S. http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14668	From: Lawrence Jackman	Date: 9/7/2001
Subject: Re: A question about magazines

100 percent. They are modelers also. Larry -----Original Message----- From: Mike Vana [mailto:amflyer@...] Sent: Friday, September 07, 2001 6:56 PM To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [S-Trains] A question about magazines I heard a claim once that when the model railroad magazines get items for reviews, they don't return them, but instead keep them. Does anybody know if that's true? What would they do with the stuff if they kept it? Mike Vana Omaha, NE. S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14669	From: Clifford Manning	Date: 9/7/2001
Subject: repair

I am looking for repair plans/ manuals for an Electro Magnetic Crane 583A and a 742 Hand Car. Both need work to be restored. Missing at least one part on each. I also am looking for 2 metal frames to rebuild 2 Silver Bullet passenger cars. Cast frames will do even though the sheet metal frames were original.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14670	From: alorince@yahoo.com	Date: 9/7/2001
Subject: train shows ohio and pennsylvania

i'll be at the following train shows in ohio and pennsylvania. i have my american models s scale and some ho. Sep 9 Massillon Ohio knights of Columbus hall cherry road. ( go west from ohio route 21. hours 10 am to 3 pm September 16 Shearton North Pittsburgh pa. 9 us route 19 about 1/2 mile south of turnpike exit 3. hours 10 am to 3 pm. October 6-7 Cuyahoga county fair grounds berea ohio I- 71 bagley road exit and west. Oct 6 10 am to 5 PM, oct 7 11am to 4 pm. andy lorince

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14671	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 9/8/2001
Subject: Niagara Falls Great American Train Show

Ladies and Gentlemen, We will be at the GATS show in Niagara Falls N.Y. Sept 15. & 16. If you are in the area, please stop by and meet us. We like to hear what you want! Also check out our web site for other shows we are currently scheduled to attend. Stuff worth coming to see! The prototype for our newest conversion chassis will be running for the S Gaugers. No, I ain't spilling the beans early, but you folks have been asking for this one for several years now. Time to let us know if you really want it! Also, our newest wooden passenger shelters in S and O will be there also. See advertisements in OGR & MRN. Tom Doherty Pennsylvania Heritage Models, Ltd. http://www.paheritagemodels.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14672	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 9/8/2001
Subject: Play nice!

One day, a mother working in her kitchen hears her son playing with his electric trains in the living room. She hears the train stop and her son says, "All you jerks who want off, get the heck off now because this is the last stop! All you morons who are getting on, get your butts on the train now. We're leaving!" Mom goes into the living room and tells her son, "We don't act rude in this house. Now go to your room for an hour. When you come back down, you may play with your trains as long as you're more polite." An hour later, the mother is still working in the kitchen when her son comes out of his room and resumes playing with the trains. The train stops again and she hears, "All passengers who are disembarking the train, please remember to take all your belongings. We thank you for riding with us today and hope your trip was a pleasant one. For those just boarding, we ask that you store your hand luggage under the seat and we hope you enjoy your trip. For those of you who are ticked off about the hour delay, please see the hag in the kitchen."

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14673	From: Jollivier4@cs.com	Date: 9/8/2001
Subject: fire engines

Hey Readers Digest fans, guess what you get when you order the new condensed books? That's right, a 1/64th scale fire truck! I'm looking at my 1939 Ward LaFrance right now. These are really nice quality. They're made by a company called High Speed. My dad said there were 8 in the set, and all of them were pre-1960. He lost the order form for the rest. Jacques Please note the e-mail address change

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14674	From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi	Date: 9/8/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Ground throws

Hi all: What are the ground throws or switch machines that you all are using for BK enterprises closed frog code 125 switches? Will the Atlas switch machines work on these or are they too skimpy? Anyone have any experience with Alder S-gauge switch stands? Tx for info. Rance rxman46321@... wrote: > I'm using the N scale Caboose Industries throws and they have performed well. On some turnouts I've had to adjust the points a bit but not to where it interferes with wheel tracking. > > Did I miss info on converting A-F steamers to K-D couplers? I have been meaning to put out that question for a week now. > > John Griffin > > To see or post Photos visit > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Scale/files/ > or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/ > To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14675	From: lancemccold@chartertn.net	Date: 9/8/2001
Subject: AF #600 Crossing Gate question

I am rewstoring a # 600 crossing gate. I purchased a reproduction pedestrian gate for it, but I cannot figure out how to put it on so it works. I have looked at all the references I have and cannot find any drawings or photographs that show detail. I would appreciate any clues. Thanks, Lance McCold

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14676	From: Bob	Date: 9/8/2001
Subject: Great Photos...........

Paul, Great photos and video and the "Lying-L" A.F. Sawmill.It actually looks a lot more like a real log being sawed.Great sound too.I have a Lionel version on order from my local train shop.Anyone know when they are due out ? I called M.T.H. and their version is now due out the end of October.If Lionel was smart they ship there's out A.S.A.P. Everyone keep in touch.Should have a lot of A.F. accessories coming out by Christmas I hope.............Bob

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14677	From: thomrhymer@excite.com	Date: 9/8/2001
Subject: Re: Great Photos...........

I saw 2 of the lionel sawmills in my local hobby store this week. So I think they are out in some areas. -John --- In S-Trains@y..., "Bob" <YAZFACTS@W...> wrote: > Paul, > Great photos and video and the "Lying-L" A.F. Sawmill.It > actually looks a lot more like a real log being sawed.Great sound > too.I have a Lionel version on order from my local train shop.Anyone > know when they are due out ? I called M.T.H. and their version is now > due out the end of October.If Lionel was smart they ship there's out > A.S.A.P. Everyone keep in touch.Should have a lot of A.F. accessories > coming out by Christmas I hope.............Bob

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14678	From: Michael Christensen	Date: 9/8/2001
Subject: Re: Great Photos...........

Looks like the sawmills arrived. There is an auction on EBAY with great photos. Nice Box too! Check out item # 1634817039. Currently the bid is about at retail. --- thomrhymer@... wrote: > I saw 2 of the lionel sawmills in my local hobby > store this week. So > I think they are out in some areas. > > -John > > --- In S-Trains@y..., "Bob" <YAZFACTS@W...> wrote: > > Paul, > > Great photos and video and the "Lying-L" A.F. > Sawmill.It > > actually looks a lot more like a real log being > sawed.Great sound > > too.I have a Lionel version on order from my local > train > shop.Anyone > > know when they are due out ? I called M.T.H. and > their version is > now > > due out the end of October.If Lionel was smart > they ship there's > out > > A.S.A.P. Everyone keep in touch.Should have a lot > of A.F. > accessories > > coming out by Christmas I hope.............Bob > > > S-Trains list sponsor: > http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories > too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14679	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 9/8/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Ground throws

I rigged an Atlas by extending the throw arm to power a manual AM #5 switch. My experience with Caboose hand throws on closing frog BKs on our club layout is- you need the sprung O gauge for adequate throw to put enough contact on the points to maintain power on the moving drog. A caveat, you musy center the throw carefully. Rance and Bente Velapoldi wrote: > > Hi all: > What are the ground throws or switch machines that you all are using for BK enterprises closed frog code 125 switches? Will the Atlas switch machines work on these or are they too > skimpy? Anyone have any experience with Alder S-gauge switch stands? Tx for info. > Rance > > rxman46321@... wrote: > > > I'm using the N scale Caboose Industries throws and they have performed well. On some turnouts I've had to adjust the points a bit but not to where it interferes with wheel tracking. > > > > Did I miss info on converting A-F steamers to K-D couplers? I have been meaning to put out that question for a week now. > > > > John Griffin > > > > To see or post Photos visit > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Scale/files/ > > or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/ > > To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > To see or post Photos visit > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Scale/files/ > or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/ > To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14680	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 9/8/2001
Subject: Re: Great Photos...........

Got mine from Joe Naenn yesterday (Friday) thomrhymer@... wrote: > > I saw 2 of the lionel sawmills in my local hobby store this week. So > I think they are out in some areas. > > -John > > --- In S-Trains@y..., "Bob" <YAZFACTS@W...> wrote: > > Paul, > > Great photos and video and the "Lying-L" A.F. Sawmill.It > > actually looks a lot more like a real log being sawed.Great sound > > too.I have a Lionel version on order from my local train > shop.Anyone > > know when they are due out ? I called M.T.H. and their version is > now > > due out the end of October.If Lionel was smart they ship there's > out > > A.S.A.P. Everyone keep in touch.Should have a lot of A.F. > accessories > > coming out by Christmas I hope.............Bob > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14681	From: Gerald Fish	Date: 9/9/2001
Subject: Re: Great Photos...........

Bob Mine came in to the hobby shop where I ordered it on Aug 31, I picked it up that same day . jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob" <YAZFACTS@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 4:57 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Great Photos........... > Paul, > Great photos and video and the "Lying-L" A.F. Sawmill.It > actually looks a lot more like a real log being sawed.Great sound > too.I have a Lionel version on order from my local train shop.Anyone > know when they are due out ? I called M.T.H. and their version is now > due out the end of October.If Lionel was smart they ship there's out > A.S.A.P. Everyone keep in touch.Should have a lot of A.F. accessories > coming out by Christmas I hope.............Bob > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14682	From: wayned3@earthlink.net	Date: 9/9/2001
Subject: Rosemont Hobby Exposition

Plenty of train exhibitors but hardly much in S. S-Helper was the only exhibitor that I found with trains in S. An MTH rep told me the log loader won't be out until 2002.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14683	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 9/9/2001
Subject: [Fwd: Re: [S-Trains] Re: Great Photos...........]

Correction(poor typing): Got mine from Joe Naenn yesterday (Friday) -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Re: Great Photos........... Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 19:42:01 -0400 From: Chuck Smith <cesmith@...> To: thomrhymer@... CC: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com References: <9ne4nd+m7av@...> Got mine from Joe Naenn yesterday (Friday)should read Got mine from Joe Haenn. Sorry Joe! thomrhymer@... wrote: > > I saw 2 of the lionel sawmills in my local hobby store this week. So > I think they are out in some areas. > > -John > > --- In S-Trains@y..., "Bob" <YAZFACTS@W...> wrote: > > Paul, > > Great photos and video and the "Lying-L" A.F. Sawmill.It > > actually looks a lot more like a real log being sawed.Great sound > > too.I have a Lionel version on order from my local train > shop.Anyone > > know when they are due out ? I called M.T.H. and their version is > now > > due out the end of October.If Lionel was smart they ship there's > out > > A.S.A.P. Everyone keep in touch.Should have a lot of A.F. > accessories > > coming out by Christmas I hope.............Bob > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14684	From: gunrjoe@aol.com	Date: 9/9/2001
Subject: s-trains knowlege and publishing

Read with great interest comments about articles and publishing. I am often at a loss regarding issues such as re-painting. I have items of varing condidtion. As an operator I have no insight as to when to repaint something. Also, after reviewing this list's archives and other sources I am still not clear on colors and sources. I have some paint from Portlines for AF accessories. I read somewhere that the paint on AF fades with time, but my accessories are darker than the Portlines paint. I thought to fade meant to get lighter. I have no access to old S-gaugians or Herolds. I would like to see more articles about these subjects even if repeats. Or if some knowledgable person has the inclination I would even pay for even a crudly published article if it would list all available paint shemmes for all accessories and the corresponding paint sources to match. Being an operator I want some items to look weathered but if I repaint I want it to be as close to AF as possible. Thanks to those who have helped greatly in the past.-Joe [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14685	From: Rick Evans	Date: 9/9/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer/Lionel Sawmill

Just talked to my hobbie store out here on the west coast,...and no sawmill yet,...figures if the stores in the east are receiving them,..should be here soon, maybe this week. Anyone out here in the west heard any different?? Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14686	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 9/9/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, September 9, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14687	From: plotnick	Date: 9/9/2001
Subject: Re: Lionel (AF) Sawmill

All: I have my sawmill (thanks Joe Haenn!) and I've set it up. My family and I have had great fun playing with it. Considering that I saw an original Gilbert one at the Dupage IL (Great Midwest) Train Show today for $350+, I am more than hapopy to have paid so a little for a fun item! -Roy Roy E. Plotnick Department of Earth and Environmental Sciences University of Illinois at Chicago 845 W. Taylor St. Chicago, Il .60607 phone: 312-996-2111 630-252-6377(May-August) e-mail: plotnick@... homepage: http://www.uic.edu/depts/geos/people/faculty/plotnick.html "Those who do not know the literature are condemned to repeat it."

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14688	From: lensman@erols.com	Date: 9/9/2001
Subject: AF GP-7 turns tail and runs away.

Hello everyone. I've been observing the banter on the list for some time now and am impressed by the wealth of knowledge regarding this hobby. I am seeking some technical assistance in getting AF GP-7 running again. The problem is that I can only get the unit to run in reverse. Also, the unit doesn't seem to have a great deal of power but spins fairly well. I have replaced the brushes but no difference. The reversing unit seems to switch all right and all seems in order. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Jerry

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14689	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 9/9/2001
Subject: AF GP-7

Jerry: Reverse unit may be locked in reverse. if not, most probably a reverse unit problem. Spray TV tuner contact cleaner onto reverse unit drum. Blow away surplus. You may need to clean the reverse unit drum from underneath with Q-tips and contact cleaner. Fingers may need replacement. Otherwise, the loco may be miswired. There are other possibilities. These are the most probable. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14690	From: Bill Lane	Date: 9/10/2001
Subject: S Helper Service Pennsy Flat car

Hi All, Does anyone have an "extra" S Helper Service PRR flat car only? I need to buy one quick-like-a-rabbit for a special purpose. I don't mind if you ran it as long as it is in good condition and has the scale wheels with it. Thanks Bill

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14691	From: Novak, William	Date: 9/10/2001
Subject: Re: New Flex tack for AF

The new Flex track by American S-Gauge (ASG) looks like a real winner for those of us who are trying to mate AF switches and track trips with newer track. However, the price Mescher is asking is out of sight - $4.78 per foot! That's more than double the SHS price of $2.24/ft., which is also close to the AM price on flexible track. ASG's price can be found at trainweb.com/crocon/strack.html . And, at $50-60 per switch a modest size layout with a couple of loops, several sidings, and half dozen switches would run nearly $1000 in ASG track work. That's an awfully steep investment before you can even run the first engine. Bill Novak Arlington, Virginia

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14692	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 9/10/2001
Subject: Re: New Flex tack for AF

The new track or really the proto type I saw 2 years ago at his shop was solid SS just like HO track is it may be the reason for the steep price....I saw him yesterday at a TTOS meet but he did not have any with him .....He will have some with him at Cal Stuart in November at Pasadena ,Cal this Fall....Two things may determin his higher cost first the solid rail, second a low run amt as he is just putting this on the market....When I see him again ....Which should be at a small meet in Tujunga, Ca....I'lll inquire....I know he had trouble with the manufa. for quite sometime as far as the amt he was ordering....Just a few facts....I couldn't afford it myself, but it might be the way to go if you are never going to change your track work for a long time.....Mike S. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14693	From: Ted Larson	Date: 9/10/2001
Subject: photos

I looked at some of the online N&W photo archive that someone told us about. http://worf.cc.vt.edu/cgi-bin/imagebase/pub_browse?collection_id=ns&place=0 First 144 records, lots of passenger cars, some steam engines, including one that looks British. Here's some interesting freight that I found. Reefers http://scholar2.lib.vt.edu/imagebase_new/norfolksouthern/full/NS2753.jpeg WFEX 67395 http://scholar2.lib.vt.edu/imagebase_new/norfolksouthern/full/NS2754.jpeg FGE 81123 http://scholar2.lib.vt.edu/imagebase_new/norfolksouthern/full/NS2755.jpeg NW 292945 http://scholar2.lib.vt.edu/imagebase_new/norfolksouthern/full/NS2756.jpeg http://scholar2.lib.vt.edu/imagebase_new/norfolksouthern/full/NS2757.jpeg http://scholar2.lib.vt.edu/imagebase_new/norfolksouthern/full/NS2859.jpeg Box car interiors http://worf.cc.vt.edu/cgi-bin/imagebase/pub_browse?collection_id=ns&place=276 Pig Train http://scholar2.lib.vt.edu/imagebase_new/norfolksouthern/full/NS2862.jpeg Auto rack (1962 Lincolns and T-birds) http://scholar2.lib.vt.edu/imagebase_new/norfolksouthern/full/NS2850.jpeg http://scholar2.lib.vt.edu/imagebase_new/norfolksouthern/full/NS2851.jpeg http://scholar2.lib.vt.edu/imagebase_new/norfolksouthern/full/NS2852.jpeg ===== Ted Larson __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14694	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 9/10/2001
Subject: Miles off topic

I know Paul is going to take me to task for being so far off topic but... During the Rubic's Cube craze of about 1980, there was a more difficult one called the Rubic's Revenge. The normal cube is 3 * 3 * 3. The Revenge is 4 * 4 * 4. The Rubic's Cube was cloned off my almost everyone but the 'Genuine, Authentic, U.S.A. approved Rubik" is from Ideal as is the Revenge. My Revenge is so worn out the cubes keep popping out (Rating: Poor). Does anyone have any suggestions on even how to hunt for one with a EX or better rating? I am an 'operator' so it does not have to be cosmetically perfect -- just work well. Thorin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14695	From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT	Date: 9/10/2001
Subject: Re: Miles off topic

Does the wear come from taking it apart to put the cubes back in order......never could work that thing...Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marty.Thorin" <Thorin.Marty@...> To: "'S-Trains (E-mail)" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 12:33 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Miles off topic > I know Paul is going to take me to task for being so far off topic but... > > During the Rubic's Cube craze of about 1980, there was a more difficult one > called the Rubic's Revenge. The normal cube is 3 * 3 * 3. The Revenge is 4 > * 4 * 4. The Rubic's Cube was cloned off my almost everyone but the > 'Genuine, Authentic, U.S.A. approved Rubik" is from Ideal as is the Revenge. > > My Revenge is so worn out the cubes keep popping out (Rating: Poor). Does > anyone have any suggestions on even how to hunt for one with a EX or better > rating? I am an 'operator' so it does not have to be cosmetically perfect > -- just work well. > > Thorin > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14696	From: Scott Holm	Date: 9/10/2001
Subject: Royal Blue Passenger Cars

After painting some 650 passenger cars royal blue, they now need decals. I think they should be "BALTIMORE AND OHIO" ? Is that right? Does anybody know where these could be obtained, if anywhere? Oddball Decals was no help. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14697	From: roberte613@aol.com	Date: 9/10/2001
Subject: Reverse Help

My son and I are redoing our layout this year (hopefully done for the holidays) and would like to have a single line of track for trolley/handcar etc. purposes. We will be running this line on DC and need a reversing mechanism to have the car change direction as it reaches each end of the track. I've seen a few prefab modules, but I know nothing about them and they seem pretty expensive. Any suggestions? Thanks, Robert

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14698	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 9/10/2001
Subject: Re: Miles off topic

Thank you, Scott. I have ordered a new one so I can retire my old one. And now we return us back to our regularly scheduled programming S Gauge trains! Thorin -----Original Message----- From: Scott Holm [mailto:imsscott@...] Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 12:36 PM To: Marty.Thorin Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Miles off topic They have them for sale at their web site: http://www.rubiks.com/ --- "Marty.Thorin" <Thorin.Marty@...> wrote: > I know Paul is going to take me to task for being so far off topic > but... > > During the Rubic's Cube craze of about 1980, there was a more > difficult one called the Rubic's Revenge. The normal cube is > 3 * 3 * 3. The Revenge is 4 * 4 * 4. The Rubic's Cube was > cloned by almost everyone but the 'Genuine, Authentic, U.S.A. > approved Rubik" is from Ideal as is the Revenge. > > My Revenge is so worn out the cubes keep popping out (Rating: > Poor). Does anyone have any suggestions on even how to hunt for > one with a EX or better rating? I am an 'operator' so it does not > have to be cosmetically perfect -- just work well. > > Thorin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14699	From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT	Date: 9/10/2001
Subject: Re: Royal Blue Passenger Cars

If someone has an idea about these decals....please let me know toooooo!!!!!! years ago I bought a set "royal blue with pass cars...the owner wanted a royal blue set...since they didn't make one he bought new 4 - 900 series hw....and repainted them...I still need decals...Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Holm" <imsscott@...> To: "s-trains" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 1:52 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Royal Blue Passenger Cars > After painting some 650 passenger cars royal blue, they now need > decals. I think they should be "BALTIMORE AND OHIO" ? Is that right? > Does anybody know where these could be obtained, if anywhere? Oddball > Decals was no help. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger > http://im.yahoo.com > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14700	From: Alex	Date: 9/10/2001
Subject: Re: Reverse Help

Hi Robert: See my article entitled "Modifying an A.C. Gilbert American Flyer Handcar for Reverse" at Paul Yorke' site at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/diagram/handcar_diode_hrm.htm I use DC and reverse my modified handcar, as well as Putt Trolleys, this way. Good luck. -- Alex in Kennebunk, Maine -----Original Message----- From: roberte613@... [mailto:roberte613@...] Sent: Monday, September 10, 2001 2:08 PM To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [S-Trains] Reverse Help My son and I are redoing our layout this year (hopefully done for the holidays) and would like to have a single line of track for trolley/handcar etc. purposes. We will be running this line on DC and need a reversing mechanism to have the car change direction as it reaches each end of the track. I've seen a few prefab modules, but I know nothing about them and they seem pretty expensive. Any suggestions? Thanks, Robert S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14701	From: michael prell	Date: 9/10/2001
Subject: Re: New Flex tack for AF

And that's New! Went to the annual Clayton show held this past weekend in upstate New York where they were selling old flyer track ( s & c ) at between $2.50 to $3.00 per section. I guess if people want it bably enough, they'll pay for it. You're right. It is too high! --- "Novak, William" <wjnovak@...> wrote: > The new Flex track by American S-Gauge (ASG) looks > like a real winner for > those of us who are trying to mate AF switches and > track trips with newer > track. However, the price Mescher is asking is out > of sight - $4.78 per > foot! That's more than double the SHS price of > $2.24/ft., which is also > close to the AM price on flexible track. ASG's > price can be found at > trainweb.com/crocon/strack.html . And, at $50-60 per > switch a modest size > layout with a couple of loops, several sidings, and > half dozen switches > would run nearly $1000 in ASG track work. That's an > awfully steep > investment before you can even run the first engine. > > Bill Novak > Arlington, Virginia > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: > http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories > too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > ===== Being angry is the same as holding a hot coal in the palm of your hand. You want to hold on to it in order to throw it at another, but only hurt yourself in doing so. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14702	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 9/10/2001
Subject: AF accessories on DC

Can anyone tell me if AF action cars (715, 734, 918, etc.) and track powered accessories will work okay on DC power. I never tried this, so don't know what to expect. Roger Petrella Franktown, CO

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14703	From: joe messinger	Date: 9/10/2001
Subject: Train Christmas Cards

I know it's a bit early for Christmas stuff but I just got some sample Christmas cards in the mail today. They're from the National Railroad Museum, offer different railroad scenes, and three of the nine cards feature model trains. Best of all, the model trains are all on two rail tracks and it wouldn't be stretching things too much say they just might be "S" gauge. The cards are all really nice. A bit pricey, but nice and for a good cause. Thought those of you that haven't gotten the samples might be interested. The N.R.M. address is: National Railroad Museum 2285 S. Broadway Green Bay, WI 54304-4832 www.nationalrrmuseum.org Happy Holidays? Joe Messinger _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14704	From: dlehnhoff@hotmail.com	Date: 9/11/2001
Subject: DC powered action cars

Yes-and less noisy Dwight Lehnhoff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14705	From: David	Date: 9/11/2001
Subject: God bless their souls.....

May God bless the souls of the innocent who were killed today in the US. This outrage is no less than that which occurred at Pearl Harbor, and may the veterans be still in their graves. I pray that our response is no less swift, deliberate, and complete. George, its time.....

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14706	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 9/11/2001
Subject: AF accessories on DC

- Greeting`S' Roger asked a fine question, directed in part, no doubt, to those of us who run trains on DC. Can action cars and track accessories be run on DC. The answers are yes and no. Here goes. One shot solenoid operators - log unloading car for instance - yes. Long duration solenoid operator - brakeman on caboose - maybe yes. The solenoid resistance and AC impedance combine to keep current drain fairly low. The impednace component goes away on DC and the solenoid draws more and maybe too much current. My caboose with brakeman makes inadequate contact with the rails so that the solenoid really is not on continuously. Vibrator action solenoid operator - passenger unloading car - no. The pulsing from AC shakes the floor and makes the passengers move. Use of unfiltered DC allows some shaking. Hope this helps. Cheer`S' Rhett

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14707	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 9/11/2001
Subject: new york situation

It's pretty intense here, guys. Thousands of people with grim looks on their faces streamed past my house because the subways were closed. Other people calmly going about their business with an ear cocked for the latest news. Lots of fighters zooming around overhead, lots of sirens. Phones, especially cell phones, overloaded. Many people have been killed and injured, and families devastated. It's horrible. As horrible as it is, we are going to get through this, even if there is more of it. You are about to see New York at its best. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14708	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 9/11/2001
Subject: Re: AF accessories on DC

Thise using electromagnets should work OK. Would recommend you don't keep power on too continuously. "Roger V. Petrella Jr." wrote: > > Can anyone tell me if AF action cars (715, 734, 918, etc.) and track > powered accessories will work okay on DC power. I never tried this, so > don't know what to expect. > > Roger Petrella > Franktown, CO > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14709	From: michael prell	Date: 9/11/2001
Subject: Re: new york situation

Tom, Let's all hope that we are all about to see the United States of America at her best! --- jarcho@... wrote: > It's pretty intense here, guys. Thousands of people > with grim looks on > their faces streamed past my house because the > subways were closed. Other > people calmly going about their business with an ear > cocked for the latest > news. Lots of fighters zooming around overhead, > lots of sirens. Phones, > especially cell phones, overloaded. > > Many people have been killed and injured, and > families devastated. It's > horrible. As horrible as it is, we are going to get > through this, even if > there is more of it. You are about to see New York > at its best. > > Tom Jarcho > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: > http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories > too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > ===== Being angry is the same as holding a hot coal in the palm of your hand. You want to hold on to it in order to throw it at another, but only hurt yourself in doing so. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14710	From: Scott Brown	Date: 9/11/2001
Subject: Terrorist Attacks

Man, am I depressed. I just got home from working 36 hrs straight. (For those of you that don't know me, I'm a paramedic in Washington DC) I actually had left my station this morning after my 24 hr shift just about 10 minutes before the plane hit the Pentagon. I drove by on 395 and saw all the black smoke. I think I'm still kinda in shock. I'm sure many of you are too. I got home around noon today and 30 minutes later was called back in and placed on alert. It took 2 1/2 hours to get back to my ambulance due to the massive exodus of people leaving DC. Fortunately I didn't have to go to the scene today (Pentagon). I was told to stand down around 5pm and sent home so I can rest and come back tomorrow at 6am for 12 hrs. We are anticipating a severe lack of hospital beds for survivors of the NYC disaster and may be sent to NYC to bring patients back down to DC hospitals. That's counting on the # of injured at the Pentagon to remain low as it is now. I really doubt that anyone still in the rubble will be found alive. Many of us at work are just numb and still in disbelief that this has happened to our country. And to be really honest, I'm a bit scared at the moment. It really bothered me to watch (on TV) the plane slam into the 2nd tower knowing that the plane was full of passengers. If you haven't already done so, please say a prayer for our country, those families who lost loved ones today and for the many police, fire and rescue personel who are involved in this disaster both in NYC and DC. While this is not a post about S gauge trains, I am an S gauge person and hope you will pardon me today. Scott Brown Atlantic Coast S Gaugers Washington & Old Dominion Division [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14711	From: richard_snook@primus.com.au	Date: 9/11/2001
Subject: off topic :-(

My sincere and heartfelt sympathies to all my US brethren. Words fail. My thoughts and hopes are with you. Richard Oz

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14712	From: Dick Kuepper	Date: 9/11/2001
Subject: Re: new york situation

I love to see the Japanese whining about our nuking Nagasaki and Hiroshima - Pardon me, but didn't you ask for it??? Now let's talk about Afghanistan! Can we talk about trains, folks?? Sincerely, Dick, US Army Ret. ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael prell" <mlprell@...> To: <jarcho@...>; <S-trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 8:17 PM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] new york situation > Tom, Let's all hope that we are all about to see the > United States of America at her best! > --- jarcho@... wrote: > > It's pretty intense here, guys. Thousands of people > > with grim looks on > > their faces streamed past my house because the > > subways were closed. Other > > people calmly going about their business with an ear > > cocked for the latest > > news. Lots of fighters zooming around overhead, > > lots of sirens. Phones, > > especially cell phones, overloaded. > > > > Many people have been killed and injured, and > > families devastated. It's > > horrible. As horrible as it is, we are going to get > > through this, even if > > there is more of it. You are about to see New York > > at its best. > > > > Tom Jarcho > > > > > > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: > > http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories > > too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > ===== > Being angry is the same as holding a hot coal in the palm of your hand. You want to hold on to it in order to throw it at another, but only hurt yourself in doing so. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger > http://im.yahoo.com > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14713	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 9/11/2001
Subject: Re: AF accessories on DC

Rhett, Thanks for that answer. Now for another question resulting from your answer. If the action cars such as cattle and passenger unloading cars won't work on DC, how do you make them operate? Is there a way to hook up AC power to affect the operation of these cars only? Maybe some way to wire the clamp on third rail pickup only? Roger "Rhett T. George" wrote: > - Greeting`S' > > Roger asked a fine question, directed in part, no doubt, to those > of us who run trains on DC. Can action cars and track accessories > be run on DC. The answers are yes and no. Here goes. > > One shot solenoid operators - log unloading car for instance - yes. > > Long duration solenoid operator - brakeman on caboose - maybe yes. > The solenoid resistance and AC impedance combine to keep > current drain fairly low. The impednace component goes away > on DC and the solenoid draws more and maybe too much current. > My caboose with brakeman makes inadequate contact with the > rails so that the solenoid really is not on continuously. > > Vibrator action solenoid operator - passenger unloading car - no. > The pulsing from AC shakes the floor and makes the passengers > move. Use of unfiltered DC allows some shaking. > > Hope this helps. > > Cheer`S' > Rhett > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14714	From: Doug Peck	Date: 9/11/2001
Subject: Re: xmas cars

And in case you didn't notice, one of those cards features an unmistakable AF Atlantic in Santa's hand!!! It's the "Dreamliner" card. Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@... << I know it's a bit early for Christmas stuff but I just got some sample Christmas cards in the mail today. They're from the National Railroad Museum, offer different railroad scenes, and three of the nine cards feature model trains. Best of all, the model trains are all on two rail tracks and it wouldn't be stretching things too much say they just might be "S" gauge. The cards are all really nice. A bit pricey, but nice and for a good cause. Thought those of you that haven't gotten the samples might be interested. The N.R.M. address is: National Railroad Museum 2285 S. Broadway Green Bay, WI 54304-4832 www.nationalrrmuseum.org Happy Holidays? Joe Messinger >>

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14715	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 9/11/2001
Subject: Terrorist Attacks

After recounting his activities during a day of devastation, Scott wrote... >While this is not a post about S gauge >trains, I am an S gauge person and hope you will pardon me today. No pardon necessary, Scott. The crime commited today against our nation transcends "topics". God bless and keep you, and thank you for your work. Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14716	From: Rick Evans	Date: 9/12/2001
Subject: Re: National Railroad Museum Christmas cards....

I have ordered these cards the past two Christmas'....really some nice cards,...I prefer the ones with Santa and toy trains,...but the others are beautiful! And they sure look "S" gauge to me! No 3-rail stuff! Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14717	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 9/12/2001
Subject: Re: Accessories on DC power

Roger Petrella Accessories like the #735 people loader car and #736 cattle loader car will not work on DC power. They can be wired to run on AC power at the same time DC is operating the locomotive. If you need more help, contact me off line. Jerry 77-11644 ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14718	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 9/12/2001
Subject: Off topic -- WTO and happier times

I remember being on the South tower on a 100% wind free day -- July 4th, 1984. A friend and I were in NYC for the fireworks which we saw from in front of the UN. It was a perfect day with temps in the mid 70s. We constructed paper airplanes and launched two that got past the tower. One stuck the other tower (how eerie today) and the other swooped, stalled, dropped its nose, and swooped again. It did this until we could not track it with his binoculars. Recently (last couple of weeks) I have been thinking about Arun and how much fun we had that day -- the drive down I95 from Old Saybrook, Connecticut beside the former New Haven railroad, electrified from New Haven to New York, the parking mess down by Battery park, the discussion on if we had time to visit the Statue of Liberty (no), visiting the observation decks on WTO, a trip across the bridge to Queens and back on the Brooklyn Bridge because Arun didn't know another way to Manhattan's Chinatown. We ate at a Chinese bakery with strings of firecrackers going off around us. Finally we drove over to the UN and walked to the East River to watch the fireworks. Someone had a radio (actually, a lot of people had radios). The fireworks and all the radios were coordinated with the 1812 overture. Although the fireworks were over by 10:00, we didn't get out of there until after midnight And didn't get back until about 2:00. A very exhausting, very happy, very rewarding day with views and joys that I will, now, never be able to share with my wife nor children. My heart goes out to those who lost loved ones. And my great frustration with the misguided 'boys' who thought they were being 'heroes' by committing these horrible acts. Excuse me, I have to dry my cheeks and eyes again. Boys don't cry -- but men do. Thorin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14719	From: John Rodgers	Date: 9/12/2001
Subject: Re: Terrorist Attacks

I walked outside yesterday for lunch. It was a clear blue sky except for what I thought were a few clouds, then I got a whiff of the air from the Pentagon five miles away. Those weren't clouds. We all lost a little innocence yesterday, and we all were drafted. If terrorists are going to use civilians as their weapons, then civilians are going to have to be soldiers and be willing to die. I suspect that is what happened on that fourth flight. Someone got a cell phone message of what happened in New York and the passengers did the best they could to avert a fourth strike. There are probably some stories of heroism that we'll never know. John Rodgers Wjnovak99@... wrote: > Scott, > > I thought of you (and David Bollinger) on this one. I was sitting in my Rosslyn office and heard the boom when the plane hit. By the time I looked out the window the smoke was billowing across the river. A couple of hours later I would duck every time an USAF fighter plane flew over. Road blocks were also set up on Lee Highway as I drove home. And, one of my staff members has her brother-in-law missing up at the World Trade Center in NYC. This is a lot closer then I ever wanted to get to such a tragedy. > > Bill

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14720	From: rhoffman@innernet.net	Date: 9/12/2001
Subject: AF Flextrack

At Nick's request, I uploaded 4 pictures of AF track and switches being joined to the new flextrack to the "Photos" section.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14721	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 9/12/2001
Subject: A Sad Topic

I've been staring at my last post and it looks off-topic as we have for now forgotten about toys for a while. I should have waited for a more appropriate time. Anyway, here is a post that I hope is more appropriate for the moment. 100 years ago, when America was entering a new century, John Philip Sousa wrote "The Invincible Eagle". We fought in several wars including two world wars since then, but the message is still the same. We're a great nation and a great people and we are still invincible because our cause is still just. May God protect the people looking for survivors and may He guide them to whoever is still alive in that horrible mess. The messages that have come over the train lists have shown that more than a toy train gauge unites us all. I don't remember shedding so many tears as I have since yesterday morning and even though I served my country during some tough times, I have never felt more like an American. With deepest sympathy to those who lost their lives and their loved ones. Roy

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14722	From: G-WOLFGANG5@JUNO.COM	Date: 9/12/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1141

I was mentally thanking my former investment bank employer for laying me off because they moved their tech support staff to WTC tower #1 and I would have been there. Maybe cause I kept an Ebay window open on my work station so I could bid on AF... Tom Hillery

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14723	From: mlmarmer	Date: 9/12/2001
Subject: Fw: [grogers-l] sad

Sent this to Neely of Garnet Rogers Yahoo Group ----- Original Message ----- From: mlmarmer To: grogers-l@yahoogroups.com Cc: Jeffrey Snell Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 9:16 PM Subject: Re: [grogers-l] sad Hi Neely, It is very sad what is going on in the world today and that these people who can't live in peace with others decided to kill 1000's of innocent,decent people. The people who lost their life's can never be forgotten by all. I believe you are Canadian, a country I have great respect for and hope to see allot in my retirement days. We love Acadia National Park and try to get to Campobello Island on some of our two trips a year there. We were scheduled to go to Maine next week. We will be seeing Dave Mallett in Ellsworth, Maine. But that trip is not as important as to the tragic events of yesterday. We in the U.S. must first take care of the injured and then go forward with life. NYC and the Pentagon will be rebuilt in time, but the people hurt are more important right now. Once, the country regroups, the WORLD needs to come together as a whole to end this terror once and for all, so that you and I may live in peace as a "group of people" in this world. We all have different beliefs about things in life, but rational people still will live in harmony side by side. Thanks for writing to the group and showing your concern. Take care, Mike Marmer Germantown, Maryland, United States Of America, where all can live in peace, hopefully. We here in North America came from diverse groups, seeking a better life, for the most part, and hopefully, all of us will survive and overcome this group of people trying to destroy what our forefathers gave to us. And the world will be a better place in the end when this is solved, once and for all. ----- Original Message ----- From: missravenblue@... To: grogers-l@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 9:40 AM Subject: [grogers-l] sad Yesterdays events were truelly horrific, I'm checking in to see that everyone on here is alright. Prayers go out to those lost and those still looking. Friends,famalies and anyone who is just plain scared. I hope all are well. Take Care Neely To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: grogers-l-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14724	From: Robert D Eves III	Date: 9/13/2001
Subject: Re: A note from a friend

A note to me from a close friend. I hade to forward it. Bob Eves A TRIBUTE TO THE UNITED STATES We should appreciate this one. This is from a Canadian newspaper, it's worth sharing. TRIBUTE TO THE UNITED STATES America: The Good Neighbor. Widespread but only partial news coverage was given recently to a remarkable editorial broadcast from Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a Canadian television commentator. What follows is the full text of his trenchant remarks as printed in the Congressional Record: "This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as the most generous and possibly the least appreciated people on all the earth. Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy were lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of these countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the United States. When France was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans who propped it up, and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it. When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the United States that hurries in to help. This spring, 59 American communities were flattened by tornadoes. Nobody helped. The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now newspapers in those countries are writing about the decadent, warmongering Americans. I'd like to see just one of those countries that is gloating over the erosion of the United States dollar build its own airplane. Does any other country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10? If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all the International lines except Russia fly American Planes? Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or woman on the moon? You talk about Japanese technocracy, and you get radios. You talk about German technocracy, and you get automobiles. You talk about American technocracy, and you find men on the moon, not once, but several times and safely home again. You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs right in the store window for everybody to look at. Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued and hounded. They are here on our streets, and most of them, unless they are breaking Canadian laws, are getting American dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here. When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down through age, it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old caboose. Both are still broke. I can name you 5,000 times when the Americans raced to the help of other people in trouble. Can you name me even one time when someone else raced to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake. Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them get kicked around. They will come out of this thing with their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating over their present troubles. I hope Canada is not one of those." Stand proud, America This is one of the best editorials that I have ever read regarding the United States. It is nice that one man realizes it. I only wish that the rest of the world would realize it. We seem to be blamed for everything, and don't get a thank you for the things we do. Makes you proud to live here doesn't it??

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14725	From: Dave0616@ATT.NET	Date: 9/13/2001
Subject: Be on the lookout....

The CIA is looking for the following vehicles. This is a clip of the info from other public boards: If your out and about, keep an eye out for these vehicles and contact the local authorities if you happen to come across one. I know it's a long shot, but if they are a part of this terrorist group, they need to be brought to justice. 1989 Red Pontiac, Florida Lic #D79DDV and 2001 Tan Oldsmobile (4-door) Florida Lic #UEP54N

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14726	From: Becker, Neil A	Date: 9/13/2001
Subject: We'll go forward from this moment

The Miami Herald Published Wednesday, September 12, 2001 By, Leonard Pitts Jr. We'll go forward from this moment. It's my job to have something to say. They pay me to provide words that help make sense of that which troubles the American soul. But in this moment of airless shock when hot tears sting disbelieving eyes, the only thing I can find to say, the only words that seem to fit, must be addressed to the unknown author of this suffering. You monster. You beast. You unspeakable bastard. What lesson did you hope to teach us by your coward's attack on our World Trade Center, our Pentagon, us? What was it you hoped we would learn? Whatever it was, please know that you failed. Did you want us to respect your cause? You just damned your cause. Did you want to make us fear? You just steeled our resolve. Did you want to tear us apart? You just brought us together. Let me tell you about my people. We are a vast and quarrelsome family; a family rent by racial, social, political and class division, but a family nonetheless. We're frivolous, yes, capable of expending tremendous emotional energy on pop cultural minutiae -- a singer's revealing dress, a ball team's misfortune, a cartoon mouse. We're wealthy, too, spoiled by the ready availability of trinkets and material goods, and maybe because of that, we walk through life with a certain sense of blithe entitlement. We are fundamentally decent, though -- peace-loving and compassionate. We struggle to know the right thing and to do it. And we are, the overwhelming majority of us, people of faith, believers in a just and loving God. Some people -- you, perhaps -- think that any or all of this makes us weak. You're mistaken. We are not weak. Indeed, we are strong in ways that cannot be measured by arsenals. IN PAIN Yes, we're in pain now. We are in mourning and we are in shock. We're still grappling with the unreality of the awful thing you did, still working to make ourselves understand that this isn't a special effect from some Hollywood blockbuster, isn't the plot development from a Tom Clancy novel. Both in terms of the awful scope of their ambition and the probable final death toll, your attacks are likely to go down as the worst acts of terrorism in the history of the United States and, probably, the history of the world. You've bloodied us as we have never been bloodied before. But there's a gulf of difference between making us bloody and making us fall. This is the lesson Japan was taught to its bitter sorrow the last time anyone hit us this hard, the last time anyone brought us such abrupt and monumental pain. When roused, we are righteous in our outrage, terrible in our force. When provoked by this level of barbarism, we will bear any suffering, pay any cost, and go to any length, in the pursuit of justice. I tell you this without fear of contradiction. I know my people, as you, I think, do not. What I know reassures me. It also causes me to tremble with dread of the future. In the days to come, there will be recrimination and accusation; fingers pointing to determine whose failure allowed this to happen and what can be done to prevent it from happening again. There will be heightened security, misguided talk of revoking basic freedoms. We'll go forward from this moment sobered, chastened, sad. But determined, too. Unimaginably determined. THE STEEL IN US You see, the steel in us is not always readily apparent. That aspect of our character is seldom understood by people who don't know us well. On this day, the family's bickering is put on hold. As Americans we will weep, as Americans we will mourn, and as Americans, we will rise in defense of all that we cherish. So I ask again: What was it you hoped to teach us? It occurs to me that maybe you just wanted us to know the depths of your hatred. If that's the case, consider the message received. And take this message in exchange: You don't know my people. You don't know what we're capable of. You don't know what you just started. But you're about to learn. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14727	From: Gregg Mummert	Date: 9/13/2001
Subject: Fly-onel Crane

Has anyone seen one of these before? http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1634615239&r=0&t=0&showTutorial=0&ed=1000402237&indexURL=0&rd=1 I thought the TTOS crane was the first Flyer crane since the '60s. Gregg Mummert _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14728	From: Mark Preman	Date: 9/13/2001
Subject: Am. Models and S-helper Collection for Sale

Hi guys (and a few gals), I just picked up a collection of American Models and S-Helper Service rolling stock from an estate sale. It is mostly AC/Highrail (American Flyer compatable) and mostly like new or still in the boxes. It will take me a while to type it all up but if you are looking for something in particular, contact me off-line. Mark http://www.americanflyertrains.com ===== Mark B. Preman AmericanFlyerTrains.com __________________________________________________ Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14729	From: ron inscho	Date: 9/13/2001
Subject: Re: Fly-onel Crane

this would appear to be a lionel crane body with an af boom on an af chassis . with af passenger trucks . no it was not a regular production item. I suspect this was assembled out of a junk box and is now being presented as a rare collectable . buyer be ware ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gregg Mummert" <gmummert@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 1:07 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Fly-onel Crane > Has anyone seen one of these before? > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1634615239&r=0&t=0&sh owTutorial=0&ed=1000402237&indexURL=0&rd=1 > > I thought the TTOS crane was the first Flyer crane since the '60s. > > Gregg Mummert > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14730	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 9/13/2001
Subject: Fwd: Fw: The barbarians will learn what America's all about

In a message dated 9/13/01 6:09:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, BEtrained@... writes: > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14731	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 9/13/2001
Subject: Re: Fly-onel Crane

In a message dated 9/13/01 2:12:16 PM, gmummert@... writes: << Has anyone seen one of these before? http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1634615239&r=0&t=0&show Tutorial=0&ed=1000402237&indexURL=0&rd=1 I thought the TTOS crane was the first Flyer crane since the '60s. Gregg Mummert >> Well, yes.....sort of. This IS a No. 19412 Lionel Frisco crane car from 1992, but with AF streamlined passenger car trucks swapped for the usual Lionel O gauge trucks. There is no accompanying documentation to indicate that this is a prototyping experiment by LTI. No. 19412 does not fit any of the known numbering schemes for Flyonel. Note that the car was bid up to what the value would be for an "operator" piece. Probably someone's weekend hobby project. BTW, the first AF crane car from MPC/LTI was the 49009 derrick car (ugh!) from 1996. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14732	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 9/13/2001
Subject: Re: AF accessories on DC

Very easy to run trains on DC and accessory cars on AC. Hook one lead from an AC transformer to the base rail for the action car. Hook the other AC lead to the action car actuator rail. Keep this AC transformer separate from the DC power supply and you will have no problem. The DC train circuit and the AC action car circuit are separate though they share a common lead. I do this all the time on my layout and we have done it on our NASG modules. Just run no connection from the AC to the other rail. The AC source and DC power supply must be kept separate. If you try to run DC track power from the same transformer you'll get in trouble. "Roger V. Petrella Jr." wrote: > > Rhett, > > Thanks for that answer. Now for another question resulting from your answer. > > If the action cars such as cattle and passenger unloading cars won't work on DC, how > do you make them operate? Is there a way to hook up AC power to affect the operation > of these cars only? Maybe some way to wire the clamp on third rail pickup only? > > Roger > > "Rhett T. George" wrote: > > > - Greeting`S' > > > > Roger asked a fine question, directed in part, no doubt, to those > > of us who run trains on DC. Can action cars and track accessories > > be run on DC. The answers are yes and no. Here goes. > > > > One shot solenoid operators - log unloading car for instance - yes. > > > > Long duration solenoid operator - brakeman on caboose - maybe yes. > > The solenoid resistance and AC impedance combine to keep > > current drain fairly low. The impednace component goes away > > on DC and the solenoid draws more and maybe too much current. > > My caboose with brakeman makes inadequate contact with the > > rails so that the solenoid really is not on continuously. > > > > Vibrator action solenoid operator - passenger unloading car - no. > > The pulsing from AC shakes the floor and makes the passengers > > move. Use of unfiltered DC allows some shaking. > > > > Hope this helps. > > > > Cheer`S' > > Rhett > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14733	From: Don Thompson	Date: 9/13/2001
Subject: Re: Fall Get-Together...counting noses

We are counting noses for anyone that will be attending our Fall Get-Together's Saturday evening buffet dinner on September 22nd (changed from the 29th). If you have already registered, you need not apply, but, please let me know as we almost ran out of food last year. Hope to see you then! Don PS If you would like tables, please let me know too! -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 F-3s and Double Sheathed boxcars are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/emdf3s_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14734	From: Bruce Papky	Date: 9/13/2001
Subject: Digest # 1142 'A note from a friend'.

Gordon Sinclair (1900-1984) was indeed one of Canada's most renowned journalists and authors. I believe his glowing editorial, America: the good neighbour, was written almost 30 years ago. Type his name in any of your search engines and you will likely find a minimum of 20 sites to go to for information. A good biography can be found at www.rcc.ryerson.ca Bruce.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14735	From: roy inman	Date: 9/14/2001
Subject: Candle lighting

<davebarrett94@...>; 'Diane McCutchen' <DianeDM1@...>; 'Dianne McCutchen' <diannemccutchen@...>; 'Doug Bynum' <doug.bynum@...>; 'Gaile Eubank' <pgaile@...>; 'Heather Hvidsten' <Heather.Hvidsten@...>; 'Heather Krafft' <hrkfashion@...>; 'Jill Moeder' <jmoeder@...>; 'Jones' <dandc@...>; 'Karen McCutchen' <CarynEM2@...>; 'Kelly Emmerson' <klemmerson@...>; 'Ladonna Sumpter' <Ladonna.Sumpter@...>; 'Matt Chance' <mattchance@...>; 'Matt Ramsey' <mtramz26@...>; 'Michelle McCutchen' <mmcc Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 12:46 PM Subject: FW: FW: Candle Lighting Ceremony > >Subject: FW: Candle lighting ceremony on Friday at 7PM > >Importance: High > > > >An important message I have been asked to forward: > > > >Friday Night at 7:00 p.m. step out your door, stop your car, or > step out > >of your establishment and light a candle. We will show the world > that > >Americans are strong and united together against terrorism. > >Please pass this to everyone on your e-mail list. We need to reach > >everyone across the United States quickly. > > > > The message: WE STAND UNITED-WE WILL NOT TOLERATE TERRORISM. > > > > We need press to cover this-we need the world to see. > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > <http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp>

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14736	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/14/2001
Subject: The WP train special.

Hi all, Well here's another picture of the WP special with "my three" locomotives, it was a beautiful day, weather-wise. Chasing the train, we passed through the Poe fire area, where some 26 families lost their homes--it covers and amazingly large area, but this disaster pales in comparison to Tuesday's events. This first URL takes you to the Railroad New site with the caption http://railroadnews.net/news/9-13.html This second URL is just the photo: http://railroadnews.net/newsimages/WPspecial-poe.jpg S; David D. PS Only a week to go Boise, we're a'comin'! Better lock up yer S trains! :-)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14737	From: roy inman	Date: 9/14/2001
Subject: FW: From The Miami Herald

---------- > From: "David and Kathy Wismer" <spike@...> > Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2001 19:27:47 -0500 > To: "Cathy Tobisch" <ATobisch@...>, "Jackie Smith" <Quoline@...>, "Sue > Andrews" <Sandrews4204@...>, "Roy Inman" <rinphoto@...>, > <BGPHOTO@...>, "Mary Heberling" <mheberling@...>, "Lisa Moose" > <EMAILMOOSE@...>, "Robert Riese" <rcriese@...> > Subject: Fw: From The Miami Herald > > >>>> >>>> THE MIAMI HERALD >>>> >>>> Published Wednesday, September 12, 2001 >>>> >>>> We'll go forward from this moment >>>> by Leonard Fitz >>>> It's my job to have something to say. >>>> They pay me to provide words that help make sense of that which > troubles >>> the >>>> American soul. But in this moment of airless shock when hot tears > sting >>>> disbelieving eyes, the only thing I can find to say, the only words > that >>>> seem to fit, must be addressed to the unknown author of this > suffering. >>>> >>>> You monster. You beast. You unspeakable idiot. >>>> What lesson did you hope to teach us by your coward's attack on our >> World >>>> Trade Center, our Pentagon, us? What was it you hoped we would learn? >>>> Whatever it was, please know that you failed. >>>> >>>> Did you want us to respect your cause? You just damned your cause. >>>> Did you want to make us fear? You just steeled our resolve. >>>> Did you want to tear us apart? You just brought us together. >>>> Let me tell you about my people. We are a vast and quarrelsome family, > a >>>> family rent by racial, social, political and class division, but a >> family >>>> nonetheless. We're frivolous, yes, capable of expending tremendous >>> emotional >>>> energy on pop cultural minutiae -- a singer's revealing dress, a ball >>> team's >>>> misfortune, a cartoon mouse. We're wealthy, too, spoiled by the ready >>>> availability of trinkets and material goods, and maybe because of > that, >> we >>>> walk through life with a certain sense of blithe entitlement. We are >>>> fundamentally decent, though -- peace-loving and compassionate. We >>> struggle >>>> to know the right thing and to do it. And we are, the overwhelming >>> majority >>>> of us, people of faith, believers in a just and loving God. >>>> >>>> Some people -- you, perhaps -- think that any or all of this makes >>>> us weak. You're mistaken. We are not weak. Indeed, we are strong in > ways >>>> that cannot be measured by arsenals. >>>> >>>> IN PAIN >>>> Yes, we're in pain now. We are in mourning and we are in shock. We're >>> still >>>> grappling with the unreality of the awful thing you did, still working >> to >>>> make ourselves understand that this isn't a special effect from some >>>> Hollywood blockbuster, isn't the plot development from a Tom Clancy >> novel. >>>> Both in terms of the awful scope of their ambition and the probable >> final >>>> death toll, your attacks are likely to go down as the worst acts of >>>> terrorism in the history of the United States and, probably, the > history >>> of >>>> the world. You've bloodied us as we have never been bloodied before. >>>> >>>> But there's a gulf of difference between making us bloody and making >>>> us fall. This is the lesson Japan was taught to its bitter sorrow the >> last >>>> time anyone hit us this hard, the last time anyone brought us such >> abrupt >>>> and monumental pain. When roused, we are righteous in our outrage, >>> terrible >>>> in our force. When provoked by this level of barbarism, we will bear > any >>>> suffering, pay any cost, go to any length, in the pursuit of justice. >>>> >>>> I tell you this without fear of contradiction. I know my people, as >>>> you, I think, do not. What I know reassures me. It also causes me to >>> tremble >>>> with dread of the future. >>>> >>>> In the days to come, there will be recrimination and accusation, >>>> fingers pointing to determine whose failure allowed this to happen and >>> what >>>> can be done to prevent it from happening again. There will be > heightened >>>> security, misguided talk of revoking basic freedoms. We'll go forward >> from >>>> this moment sobered, chastened, sad. But determined, too. Unimaginably >>>> determined. >>>> >>>> THE STEEL IN US >>>> You see, the steel in us is not always readily apparent. That aspect > of >>> our >>>> character is seldom understood by people who don't know us well. On > this >>>> day, the family's bickering is put on hold. >>>> >>>> As Americans we will weep, as Americans we will mourn, and as >>>> Americans, we will rise in defense of all that we cherish. >>>> >>>> So I ask again: What was it you hoped to teach us? It occurs to me >>>> that maybe you just wanted us to know the depths of your hatred. If >> that's >>>> the case, consider the message received. And take this message in >>> exchange: >>>> You don't know my people. You don't know what we're capable of. You >> don't >>>> know what you just started. >>>> >>>> But you're about to learn. >>>> >>>> >> >> >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14738	From: Don Thompson	Date: 9/14/2001
Subject: Re: Am. Models and S-helper Collection for Sale

Dear Mark, Unless someone took the code 110 wheels out of the SHS boxes, our products are both AF compatible and code 110. Don Thompson Mark Preman wrote: > Hi guys (and a few gals), > I just picked up a collection of American Models and > S-Helper Service rolling stock from an estate sale. It > is mostly AC/Highrail (American Flyer compatable) and > mostly like new or still in the boxes. It will take me > a while to type it all up but if you are looking for > something in particular, contact me off-line. Mark > http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > ===== > Mark B. Preman > AmericanFlyerTrains.com > > __________________________________________________ > Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? > Donate cash, emergency relief information > http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/ > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 F-3s and Double Sheathed boxcars are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/emdf3s_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14739	From: John Denholm	Date: 9/14/2001
Subject: off topic

Hi All; Just a quiet word to all our friends south of the Border from my Family to yours please accept our Condolances and our prayers on your terrible and Horrendous Attack from the enemys of our countrys please remember we stand beside you as we would with any of our true Friends and Neighbors. John & Margret Denholm < Your Canadian Friends> jde@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14740	From: John Foley	Date: 9/14/2001
Subject: (no subject)

Hi Folks This was sent to me with a request to put it on the S Digests John ERNIE HORR'S TINPLATE ROAD ESTATE SALE A 40 page list is now available for the S gauge items of the late Ernie Horr. $5.00 is requested to defray printing and mailing costs. Most items are rolling stock and locos, some lettered for the Tinplate Road. Send to Mrs. Harriet Horr, 1307 W. Dalke, Spokane, WA 99205 - Phone: 509-325-0392.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14741	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 9/14/2001
Subject: Re: Catenary being hung and other news

Catenary update and such: Yesterday I was able to build another three feet of catenary. That's the RR news. Dear Dick: Thanks for getting my name right. My electrics are few. I have two J. Wolf/Hoquat 44 ton steeple cabs built onto Athearn SW-9 mechanisms. (This is identical to what Dick Karnes did. I didn't know Dick at the time.) Each have a home-made pantograph and actual working MU cables. I can, and do, run them with one pantograph down and the MU cables power the other. They are my pride and joy. Both of these are lettered for the Iowa Traction Railroad and have visited the real Iowa Traction which is very alive and very healthy today. The real railroad is 100% freight hauled by Baldwin Westinghouse steeple cabs. I have a J. Wolf/Larry Slone North Shore coach in the greenliner scheme. It runs very poorly but it does run! The shell casting has AF caboose doors for ALL of its doors. Ron Popiers (sp), J. Wolf, Stan Romans, and Larry Slone are part of the Chicago 'gang of four' (my name) that created this shell. I think this is the shell Ron (Pope Imagineering) is selling but I would have to ask him. I removed the front pole and installed a pantograph. I have an AF EP-5, two Lionel NH EP-5, and a Lionel Milw EP-5. All of these have their original, non-functional pantographs. (The AF/Lionel pans don't work with overhead.) I have plans to clip one of my pantographs to the top of the Lionel pan so she can work from the energized overhead. I have an EP-6 which is the Karnes/Hodges Alco electric. (Replace the ends of an EP-5 with FA noses). This loco is half built. She is stalled for reasons other than time. I have another North Shore coach body which will become a 'shed' beside the car barn. I also have two unbuilt Hoquat steeple cab shells. I hope to someday own 40 ton Baldwin Westinghouse steeple cabs. If I will make them or a commercial builder will do a run is for the future. I expect I will have to build my own copy of Waterloo, Cedar Falls, and Northern 100, painted as she was rebuild by Ed Allen in Mason City in 1968. But this is out 10 to 20 years. As I have stated before, I build my overhead for catenary and use small springs for tension. Such catenary is virtually indestructible and far stronger than the cat, who walks on the layout and sleeps on a folded up blanket on the layout. (In 1989, in Connecticut, she was sleeping in the engine house. Cat hair on the rails is an excellent insulator.) Yesterday I was able to put my free 20 minutes to model railroading. So I got another 3 feet done. What electric joys do you have? Thorin (first name) Marty (last name) Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 02:51:34 -0000 From: wholfden@... Subject: Re: Catenary being hung and other news --- In S-Scale@y..., "Marty.Thorin" <Thorin.Marty@w...> wrote: > I have finished a strip of catenary 41 feet long and have nearly finished a strip 28 feet long...(edit) I build my catenary on a open ended 3 foot jig...I build my catenary for pantographs but have a > friend who has pole only equipment -- and his is all North Shore. I have a North Shore coach I have added a pantograph to the front of...(snip) I have read the articles on hanging overhead for poles. I build working, powered catenary for pantographs from just phosphor bronze wire, poles to hold it up, and small springs for tension -- no fancy, expensive castings! The tools are a soldering iron, one pair of nippers, one pair of needle nose pliers, solder, and a tub of RESIN flux. (NEVER, EVER USE ACID FLUX UNLESS YOU ARE USING A TORCH!) No fancy tools here! > Thorin Thorin, Glad to hear that someone else is into S electrics. A loud amen on your ACID FLUX comments!!! Phosphor bronze wire is the way to go. What type equipment are you running besides the NS coach (Is this one of Pope Imagineering cars?) Looking forward to hearing more about your electrics and their operation. Dick Wholf, Pagosa Springs TO LIST MEMBERS: Are there other S electric builders/juicejockies besides Karnes, Conway, Thorin and myself(Wholf)? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14743	From: John Harvey	Date: 9/14/2001
Subject: condolences from "Downunder"

Our thoughts are with you. "God Bless America". Regards, John Harvey brigadie@... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14744	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 9/14/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, September 16, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14745	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 9/14/2001
Subject: An Open Letter to Osama Bin Laden

(To my friends. Circulate this, if you will and pass it around the Internet. Sooner or later, it may actually reach the addressee.) Mr. Osama Bin Laden: You have been portrayed in the American press as an intelligent and educated man. If you are indeed the brains behind the coordinated attack on American targets this September 11th, then you clearly are intelligent, a leader, and an effective strategist. Your mission was a 75% success, taking into account the downed plane in Pennsylvania, but a 100% success in striking at America's heart and creating a demoralization right through the fabric of our society. You are to be congratulated. Of course, you are not the first. Emporer Hirohito of Japan, did much the same thing to us just sixty years ago. Shortly after bombing Pearl Harbor in Hawaii, the emperor's top admiral commented, "I fear that we have merely awakened the sleeping giant in the East." For you, a more appropriate quote might be, "Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it." I am no world leader. I like to think of myself as an intelligent man, but I lay no claim to great thoughts. There are those who have preceded me, however, and they have presciently commented on these events, which, for them, lay far in the future. Your attack (and I do use "your" generally, since I do not know that you are directly responsible, but instead paint you with the same brush as I do all terrorists) was one of extreme brutality, exceeding the death toll of Pearl Harbor by at least double and possibly five times the casualty rate. It also was aimed at civilians. We are told that this, and the previously failed attempt to topple the trade towers in 1993, are a direct result of our military forces establishing a base in your holy land during the Gulf War in 1990, thus committing a heinous offense against your people. Two thoughts from Plato come to mind. "Excess generally causes reaction, and produces a change in the opposite direction, whether it be in the seasons, or in individuals, or in governments," and "The only thing worse than suffering an injustice is committing an injustice." You may have been exacting your revenge, but as Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. said, "The old law about 'an eye for an eye' leaves everybody blind." I am afraid your blindness has led you to some wrong assumptions about Americans. Our news media have speculated that your intent was to cause Americans to retreat into our shells, to break our resolve and to make us feel vulnerable. Well, bravo. Taking out some of our most treasured symbols right here on our own home soil did have that exact result. Two days later, we are still hurting, but how long do you think that will last? We are now thinking deeply about the ramifications of what you have done. We are investigating, putting the pieces together and planning our next move. "Beware when the great God lets loose a thinker on this planet. Then all things are at risk. It is as when a conflagration has broken out in a great city, and no man knows what is safe, or where it will end." How could Ralph Waldo Emerson have known that much about this event? Soon we will act. "It is in your moments of decision that your destiny is shaped. " says Anthony Robbins. And it won't be one leader ordering his men about, it will be all of us Americans, banded together, working toward one goal,as we have in the past. "History, although sometimes made up of the few acts of the great, is more often shaped by the many acts of the small." Mark Twain was an American, too. Thousands were killed on Tuesday. Hundreds of millions carry on. "That which doesn't kill me, makes me stronger" said Friedrich Nietzsche. Now we are stronger. We are changed. We have dropped petty differences. Our politicians have united their politics. Your people chant that "God is great". God is. "My concern is not whether God is on our side," said Abraham Lincoln. "My great concern is to be on God's side." If you are laboring under the delusion that the great evil which you wrought here is good and just and the will of God, then I advise you to view the armies of the civilized world arrayed against you. "It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring," warns another great American thinker, Carl Sagan. You displayed indifference to human life merely to achieve your own ends. "Life must be lived and curiosity kept alive. One must never, for whatever reason, turn his back on life." Eleanor Roosevelt savored life. Life is good and right. Brutally taking it away is clearly wrong. "They who feel no shame in doing what is obviously wrong , are the most shameful of all." I wish I knew who said that. You're a learned man, perhaps you know. It stands to reason that doing hateful things begets hate in response. At our most visceral level, we Americans want to paint you as Nostradamus' third antichrist, the evil serpent upon which we will vent all our frustrations. It is probably exactly what you want us to do. "I will permit no man to narrow and degrade my soul by making me hate him." said Booker T. Washington of his sworn enemies. No, you are not that boogeyman, and hatred will leave us in a few days as we adjust to what has happened; as the enormity of this act sinks in. Then we will get to work. "I'm a loving guy, but I've got a job to do." That was our President, George W. Bush. Speaking of presidents, one of our best, John F. Kennedy, said at his inauguration, "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask, rather, what you can do for your country." We will not allow terrorist acts to continue past this point. We will figure out how to defeat an enemy who is suicidal. We will come to grips with those fighting a quasi-religious war. "I think vital religion has always suffered when orthodoxy is more regarded than virtue," commented Ben Franklin. "The scriptures assure me that at the last day we shall not be examined on what we thought but what we did." You started a new chapter in our history books just two days ago. Soon we, as a people, will write the conclusion to that chapter and all of it's footnotes to boot. "Few will have the greatness to bend history itself; but each of us can work to change a small portion of events, and in the total of all those acts will be written the history of this generation," said Robert F. Kennedy of the Americans he knew. I don't believe that your goal has anything to do with world domination, furtherance of your religion, defense of your people, or any motive higher than your personal agrandisement. I see you as the ultimate prankster; the self-congratulatory sophomore who put bubble bath in the water supply or jammed the Internet with a virus. Only, you are deadly and manipulate your followers with religious fervor. "Any effort that has self-glorification as its final endpoint is bound to end in disaster." says Robert M. Pirsig. Soon, you will cease to exist. We will make that so. "If your enemy smite one cheek, turn the other to him. But you must stop there. You cannot apply this to your country. As members of a social community, this maxim does not apply to you. When you consider injuries done to your country, your political duty tells you of vengeance. Forgive as a private man, but never forgive public injuries." Patrick Henry understood the roles of religion and politics. None less than our first president, George Washington, said, "Government is not reason, it is not eloquence -- it is force!" Does that sound like the soft, self satisfied America you know? How about this presidential quote; "We, and all others who believe in freedom as deeply as we do, would rather die on our feet than live on our knees." -- Franklin D. Roosevelt, in a Letter to Viscount Halifax, June 19, 1941. Another pansy pushover? The way to get to you is to make your supporters give you up. "One who condones evils is just as guilty as the one who perpetrates it," said Martin Luther King, who was a man of peace. Soon the pounding will begin. It will last a long time. You will not live to see the end of it. All the cells will be rooted out. Many will die. It troubles all Americans to do this to any people. When our souls become disturbed at what we are doing, however, we will replay the videotapes of those jet planes disappearing into the World Trade Towers and re-emerging as fireballs. If we start to concern ourselves about the loss of innocent lives, we will look at pictures of our friends jumping from 30 floors above the ground to escape the flames. Thank you for those images. We will garner our strength and resolve in them. The sleeper is awake. God have mercy on your immortal soul. Sincerely, Christopher G. Zizzo American Citizen __________________________________________________________________

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14746	From: IronHorse	Date: 9/14/2001
Subject: Re: An Open Letter to Osama Bin Laden

I not only sent it out to my family and friends, I sent it out to the news media that I had in my address book.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14747	From: IronHorse	Date: 9/14/2001
Subject: Osama Bin Laden

I have a unique idea to drive this crazy person absolutely nuts. Get a bunch of high quality (large and weather proof) speakers controlled by a satellite system. A bunch meaning a large quantify. Spread them around the jerks territory. (hidden) A couple of hours a day blast him with our national anthem, and Battle hymn of the republic. This would be at random hours. Speakers alternating off and on so they would be hard to find. Doing it at late hours of the night would be a nice touch. I bet a lot of people would donate speakers. And I bet space could be got on someone's satellite for free. cell phone technology could be used to call up the speakers.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14748	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 9/15/2001
Subject: Re :SPAM

Could the moderators of the S-Scale and S-Trains Lists please delete the "Money Maker" SPAM of September 14 from the message archives. Thank you, Rich G. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14749	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 9/15/2001
Subject: decals/transfers

Cananyone help me find a source for christmas type decals? or transfers. I'm not picky about scale, ho or o will work. Thanks, Chris B. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14750	From: David	Date: 9/15/2001
Subject: Re: An Open Letter to Osama Bin Laden

All he needs to know is this: YOU AND ALL YOUR FOLLOWERS ARE DEAD MEN....... PERIOD.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14751	From: Jim Carnes	Date: 9/15/2001
Subject: Re: decals/transfers

Chris, Try Rag Shop (or similar cloth & craft stores in your area). I have gotten holiday themed stickers from this type of store to use to decorate rolling stock for my Christmas train. Jim cbtrainnut@... wrote: > Cananyone help me find a source for christmas type decals? or transfers. I'm > not picky about scale, ho or o will work. Thanks, Chris B. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14752	From: G-WOLFGANG5@JUNO.COM	Date: 9/15/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1144

As a forum and outlet for the grief of 9/11 , the off topic use of this list has been useful,(scares me that we might sink to that level in rage) but the Moneymaker solictation was totally offensive- T. Hillery

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14753	From: mlmarmer	Date: 9/15/2001
Subject: Fw: [S-Trains] Re :SPAM

----- Original Message ----- From: "mlmarmer" <mlmarmer@...> To: <rgajnak@...> Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2001 2:07 PM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Re :SPAM > I second that request to remove that email from the archives, especially > during this terrible time in our lives and this person is worried about > being a millionaire? > > I guess some don't get it about how precious life is and all that person can > only think about is greed. > > Why doesn't that person take all that money and donate it to the need in > finding the innocent people. I hope all of us are giving something to help > out instead of getting involve with this garbage. > > Mike Marmer > Germantown, MD > ----- Original Message ----- > From: " Rich Gajnak" <rgajnak@...> > To: "SScale" <S-Scale@yahoogroups.com>; "STrains" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2001 8:19 AM > Subject: [S-Trains] Re :SPAM > > > > > > Could the moderators of the S-Scale and S-Trains > > Lists please delete the "Money Maker" SPAM of September 14 from the > message > > archives. > > > > > > > > Thank you, > > > > Rich G. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14754	From: mlmarmer	Date: 9/15/2001
Subject: Re: An Open Letter to Osama Bin Laden

Chris, A great letter. Thanks for doing it and I hope it makes the internet rounds. It really says allot about the American spirit that continues today during a crisis that allot of us have never really seen like this before. Be well, Mike Marmer Germantown, MD

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14755	From: David A. Bollinger, (Co 21 & WC4J)	Date: 9/15/2001
Subject: Re: Terrorist Attacks

Hi Everybody in ACSG-W&OD, Today is the first day I have had to catch up on anything here at home including E-Mail. I was on duty from 10:30 a.m. on Tuesday morning as everything started unfolding and "All Fairfax County volunteers were asked to report to their stations" until 10:30 p.m. on Wednesday evening (36 hours (maximum for career and volunteers)) and again from 6 p.m. on Thursday until 6 a.m. on Friday (12 hours). During my duty time I drove one of our two ambulances, rode third on our medic unit, was the unit officer on our engine, was unit officer on one of our ambulances and then ferried equipment, apparatus and people around the County. Since the acts of terrorism, I've been in service running calls from our fire and rescue station 21 on Route 50 in the Fair Oaks area, FS 10 (Bailey's Crossroads), FS 26 (Edsall Road), FS 1 (McLean), FS 32 (Fair lawn near Burke), FS 30 (Merrifield), FS 11 (Mount Vernon), and back to FS 21 (Fair Oaks). Eye opening times. I have 8 career members and 2 volunteer members of my fire and rescue station 21 and 8 key players on my Montgomery County F&R team I normally work with for TRW in Gaithersburg and Rockville, MD down at the Pentagon with the FEMA Urban Search and Rescue teams and 1 key Montgomery County player up in NYC with the FEMA incident command structure. I went to college with and have worked and trained with several of the lost firefighters in FDNY. I'm coping by helping others, but still feel numb. I have a simple rule I tell all of my fire and rescue crew members -- "Let us all stay part of the solution and not become part of the problem".......... Also, my daughter, Peggy (24) who works for Booz Allen Hamilton in Tysons Corner was supposed to be transferred to the Pentagon a week ago, but her clearance did not come through in time (thank goodness for government red tape) and three BAH employees on her team at the Pentagon are reported as missing. Peggy also has a friend she met at James Madison University who worked in one of the World Trade Center Towers, who cell phoned his girl friend he was on his way out, but never made it out, and is now missing in the rubble. Peggy and several of her friends are planning on driving up to NJ for a memorial service later this week... Too close for comfort... God Bless America!!! My best to you all, David A. Bollinger Fire Officer I, EMT-B, V.P. & Communications Officer Fair Oaks Volunteer Fire & Rescue Company Fairfax, VA & Atlantic Coast S Gaugers Washington & Old Dominion Division

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14756	From: Bill Lane	Date: 9/15/2001
Subject: The X-29 is painted

Hi All, I have painted our PRR X-29 pilot model http://users.snip.net/~billlane/paintedx29.jpg We are going to the Central Jersey S Scalers Get Together next weekend. We are still taking reservations. Please go to www.pennsysmodels.com for more information. Thank You Bill Lane Pennsy S Models

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14758	From: William Porter	Date: 9/15/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1144

I received three copies of the note....one for each of the three yahoo groups of which I am a member. Could that be a coincidence? Later, Bill Porter ----- Original Message ----- From: <G-WOLFGANG5@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2001 2:23 PM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1144 > As a forum and outlet for the grief of 9/11 , the off topic use of this > list has been useful,(scares me that we might sink to that level in rage) > but the Moneymaker solictation was totally offensive- T. Hillery > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14759	From: John Denholm	Date: 9/15/2001
Subject: open letter

Hi Chris; Thanks for a great summation of the monster I only Hope a copy will get to your President Bush Keep up the great work we need it Truly. My Wife and I went to our local IGA in Edmonton and the locals are truly affected by the Terrible act of war as we all know it could have and still might happen here as Alberta is the major Oil Province in the North Thanks again Chris we don't seem to feel so alone now <jde> John & Peg Denholm jde@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14760	From: Walt Danylak	Date: 9/16/2001
Subject: Interactive CDROM

Good Morning, Has anyone purchased the interactive CDROM now being listed on Ebay? Walt Danylak

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14761	From: IronHorse	Date: 9/16/2001
Subject: Off topic messages

I fully understand people responding in this forum about Tuesdays events. The emotion behind it took priority over train topics. However this does not mean other off topic items should be brought up. Our prayers and hearts are with the effected families. Time to get back to just trains. If someone has a need to discuss an off topic item there is more than likely a web site or yahoo group to help you. Use a search engine at HTTP://dogpile.com type in your topic in the window and click on fetch. A dozen search engines will be activated hunting down your search request. Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14762	From: Ross	Date: 9/16/2001
Subject: AF CD-ROM

Has anyone purchased the interactive CDROM now being listed on Ebay? I just received my copy of the AF CD-ROM listed on Ebay and looked at it briefly. It's worth the $15. The CD contains copies (mostly in Adobe Acrobat format) of other AF sources including instruction manuals, catalogs, promotional pictures, S Gaugian articles, etc plus some audio train whistles. If you don't have some or all of this in another format, here's your chance. If you do have the other paper sources, having a searchable source should be a plus. Hopefully other users will tell us what they have found. Ross Roberts 4623 194th Avenue SE Issaquah WA 98027 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14763	From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT	Date: 9/16/2001
Subject: K -LINE

SLIGHLY OFF TOPIC.....BUT THE OTHER DAY A FRIEND OF MINE ASKED ME TO COME OVER AND HELP HIM LAYOUT HIS NEW LAYOUT....AFTER ABOUT AN HOUR WE HAD TWO LOOPS WITH SWITCHES AND SIDINGS LAID OUT WITH NEW MTH TRACK...LOOKED OK...I PUT AN OLD ENGINE ON THE TRACK AND AFTER A GOOD CLEANING, IT RAN FINE...NEXT WAS THE NEW K LINE HUDSON....WOULDN'T GO BUT AN INCH OR SO....I THINK THE WHEELS ARE OUT OF QUARTER....OUT FOR REPAIRS...NEXT WAS THE NEW 100.00 PASS CAR.....TRANSFORMER SHORTED OUT....NEEDS REPAIRS TOO... HOPE "S" PEOPLE NEVER PUT OUT PRODUCTS THIS BAD...ALL MY STUFF IS FLYER, EXCEPT FOR 1 NH EP-5....BOB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14764	From: Doug Peck	Date: 9/16/2001
Subject: Re: CD-ROM

<<Has anyone purchased the interactive CDROM now being listed on Ebay? >> I did......I didn't find it particularly useful. Nothing much that isn't already in print (and both quicker and easier to utilize...... how many of us have a computer setup at the workbench!) Doug

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14765	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 9/16/2001
Subject: Convention Layouts - Help Identify

Steve is making S-Scale Video #3, He is including some of my Convention footage. He has asked for some clarification on what layouts are what..... If your club had a layout at the Scranton Convention... Please look at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/con_video/screen_shots.html If I have my layouts mixed up, or you would like more info or interesting details for Steve's voice over.... Please contact Steve, his email is Boss31 at AOL . (replace at with @, and remove spaces) If I have mis-information on the above mentioned web page please let me know.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14766	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 9/16/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1145

David Bollinger: As you preform your duty in search and rescue, be assured all "s" gaugers ( and the rest of the Americans )are with in spirt, and grieve with you over the loss of so many. GOD BLESS AMERICA Jerry 77-11644 ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14767	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 9/17/2001
Subject: S-Video's Vol. 1 and Vol. II

Hi everyone, This is an update on the S-Video projects. As Vol. II (The "Utah-Ohio Connection") came on the market there were a few requests for Vol. 1 also. While printing 90 copies of Vol. II I had the shop make another 10 copies of Vol. 1 for anyone that may have missed it and would like one. There are eight of them and eleven of Vol. II left. If anyone wants either of these volumes please speak up. Since I have to buy tapes in lots of 50 I won't be running any more of these unless/until enough orders show up to warrant it. The tapes we use are 3M EHG studio quality tapes for the best possible transfer capability from 8 mm etc. Volume III is still scheduled to be out in November in time for Christmas. Regards to all and thanks for the support that keeps this project going. Steve Blackburn Boise, Idaho [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14768	From: d.garber@home.com	Date: 9/17/2001
Subject: computer at workbench

this could be expensive.workbench,BARBIE room,office.thanks Doug

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14769	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 9/17/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, September 16, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14770	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/17/2001
Subject: Re: Terrorist Attacks

David, As Gerald has already posted, our thoughts and prayers are with you and your fellow firefighters and everyone who was personally touched by these events. Even though I have met in person very few of this group's members, you seem like old friends and even family (we even sometimes fight like family!). So I am certain that all of us join in support. The 11th was our 25th anniversary, but when the clock radio came on, and I groggily heard that a plane had crashed into the WTC, there was little joy in doing any celebrating. Every one of us probably knows someone who was involved somehow: one friend here has a cousin who works in the Pentagon in the center of the destroyed area, but he had gone across the street to get some food, and survives. I doubt I am composing this very well, so I shall stop, I only want to express Linda's and my empathy for all who have been struck by this. Sincerely, David & Linda Dewey

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14771	From: John Foley	Date: 9/17/2001
Subject: Re: Convention Layouts - Help Identify

Hi Paul It all looks correct to me John Message: 4 Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 17:22:33 -0400 From: Paul Yorke <yorke@...> Subject: Convention Layouts - Help Identify Steve is making S-Scale Video #3, He is including some of my Convention footage. He has asked for some clarification on what layouts are what..... If your club had a layout at the Scranton Convention... Please look at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/con_video/screen_shots.html If I have my layouts mixed up, or you would like more info or interesting details for Steve's voice over.... Please contact Steve, his email is Boss31 at AOL . (replace at with @, and remove spaces) If I have mis-information on the above mentioned web page please let me know. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14772	From: Glenn Sarlitto	Date: 9/17/2001
Subject: Flyer/Shrink Wrapping

Did Gilbert ever use shrink wrap for their products? There was an auction on ebay that proclaimed that the items were new and never used as they are still in original shrink wrap. Thanks, Glenn S Milwaukee WI

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14773	From: Clifford Manning	Date: 9/17/2001
Subject: sound and repair

I have been very impressed with the sound units on the Lionel and MTH units. What does anyone use and how reliable is it with Flyer and other S equipment. More importantly, if you are installing in AF equipment, what do you buy? I guess I am looking for a break down of parts and equipment so I know that it will work when done. I appreciate the help from Doug on a wiring problem. Thanks, it worked great. I still am looking for repair plans/ manuals for an Electro Magnetic Crane 583A and a 742 Hand Car. Both need work to be restored. Missing at least one part on each. I tried Giardina but their online ordering would not work. Job keeps me from contacting them during hours they are open. I also am looking for 2 metal frames to rebuild 2 Silver Bullet passenger cars. Cast frames will do even though the sheet metal frames were original. Last, my thoughts are with those that are suffering. May your God bless you and give you peace. Keep em on the track. Clifford Manning clifma19@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14774	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 9/17/2001
Subject: S-Helper Flex Track

Just got some S-Helper Flex Track, check it out at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/track/track.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14775	From: Dan Brindell	Date: 9/18/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer/Shrink Wrapping

I have seen some very late Flyer items (All Aboard cars?) in a five-sided cardboard box, shrinkwrapped, with the clear plastic making the sixth (front) side. In the early days of Flyer, I don't think shrinkwrap had been invented yet ;-) Of course it is fairly easy to re-shrinkwrap things if you have access to the proper machinery. So don't get too excited about those claims unless you know the seller is honest. Dan Brindell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glenn Sarlitto" <sgauger2000@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 5:59 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Flyer/Shrink Wrapping > Did Gilbert ever use shrink wrap for their products? There was an > auction on ebay that proclaimed that the items were new and never > used as they are still in original shrink wrap. > > Thanks, > > Glenn S > Milwaukee WI > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14776	From: gino restivo	Date: 9/18/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer/Shrink Wrapping

I don't believe it was ever used by gilbert co, they had see thru , red box / white letters celephane center , clear packs , hard plastic sleeve w/solid ends item description on ends of both , tan/browwn envolopes, cloth bags, a variety of box's for sets and acces, I have some late A.F. slot car track that had the " blister pack " stlye ..... a very early form that may lead up to current " shrink wrap " which is very much like " saran wrap " you would use around the kitchen .................. shrink wrap is heated and it seals / shrinks ! window insulation is identical blister pack is a thick sheet and is heated and vacuumed to suck it down and seal see if anyone else knows of its use with the gilbert co. gino , -----Original Message----- From: Glenn Sarlitto <sgauger2000@...> To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Date: Monday, September 17, 2001 10:52 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Flyer/Shrink Wrapping >Did Gilbert ever use shrink wrap for their products? There was an >auction on ebay that proclaimed that the items were new and never >used as they are still in original shrink wrap. > >Thanks, > >Glenn S >Milwaukee WI > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > --------------------------------------------------------------- NetZero Platinum Only $9.95 per month! Sign up in September to win one of 30 Hawaiian Vacations for 2! http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14777	From: David	Date: 9/18/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer/Shrink Wrapping

--- In S-Trains@y..., "Glenn Sarlitto" <sgauger2000@y...> wrote: > Did Gilbert ever use shrink wrap for their products? There was an > auction on ebay that proclaimed that the items were new and never > used as they are still in original shrink wrap. > > Thanks, > > Glenn S > Milwaukee WI

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14778	From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT	Date: 9/18/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer/Shrink Wrapping

neqr near the end they did put a few cars in shrink wrap...crane, flood, tank, flat....bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "gino restivo" <lastman@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>; "Glenn Sarlitto" <sgauger2000@...> Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 12:09 AM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Flyer/Shrink Wrapping > I don't believe it was ever used by gilbert co, > they had see thru , red box / white letters celephane > center , clear packs , hard plastic sleeve w/solid ends > item description on ends of both , tan/browwn > envolopes, cloth bags, a variety of box's for sets > and acces, I have some late A.F. slot car track > that had the " blister pack " stlye ..... a very early > form that may lead up to current " shrink wrap " > which is very much like " saran wrap " you > would use around the kitchen .................. > shrink wrap is heated and it seals / shrinks ! > window insulation is identical > blister pack is a thick sheet and is heated > and vacuumed to suck it down and seal > > see if anyone else knows of its use with > the gilbert co. > gino , > > -----Original Message----- > From: Glenn Sarlitto <sgauger2000@...> > To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> > Date: Monday, September 17, 2001 10:52 PM > Subject: [S-Trains] Flyer/Shrink Wrapping > > > >Did Gilbert ever use shrink wrap for their products? There was an > >auction on ebay that proclaimed that the items were new and never > >used as they are still in original shrink wrap. > > > >Thanks, > > > >Glenn S > >Milwaukee WI > > > > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > NetZero Platinum > Only $9.95 per month! > Sign up in September to win one of 30 Hawaiian Vacations for 2! > http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97 > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14779	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 9/18/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer/Shrink Wrapping

Dear Glenn: My AF crane came from Target in 1966. The one near Southdale in Minneapolis (all right, Edina). The All-Aboard packaging was red and white and was definitely shrink wrapped as the shrink wrap was too 'shrunk' and the box was partially crushed. The location still exists. Enter the store and go left about 6 feet. Turn right and face whatever display is there. That day it had about 15 feet of just the 24569 AF crane! I received the crane at Easter and the packaging was promptly discarded. So, yes, there is NIB shrink wrapped AF. I saw more 24569s NIB at Amatos' Hobby Shop in Middletown, CT in the latter half of the 1980s. These looked like they had been re-wrapped as the shrink wrap looked like the roll plastic the grocery store uses. My experience has the vintage, original shrink wrap in self-destructed shreds by 1980. Thorin Message: 6 Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2001 21:59:22 -0000 From: "Glenn Sarlitto" <sgauger2000@...> Subject: Flyer/Shrink Wrapping Did Gilbert ever use shrink wrap for their products? There was an auction on ebay that proclaimed that the items were new and never used as they are still in original shrink wrap. Thanks, Glenn S Milwaukee WI [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14780	From: ljaneski@bellsouth.net	Date: 9/18/2001
Subject: Flyer/Shrink Wrapping

I saw the auction and it is anachronistic and incorrect bordering on fakery. The heat shrink packaging, that the ebay seller claimed, was not even available in the early sixties. There is no GILBERT logo on the packaging. The cardboard backing was unaged. When you see old boxes the acid in the cheap paper of that time has usually aged them to an almost yellow brown color. All of the Gilbert clear plastic packaging I have seen, was hard plastic "blister pack". This is true of the Pikemaster Klear Packs and the Pikemaster store displays of track components. When NOT sold as sets, this is also true of the Gilbert Chemistry Sets and the road race components (007,stock car, halter horse race). When I have stumbled across these items they are always in a hard plastic case with a thin cardboard backing (blister pack) or card board boxes with early sixties GILBERT logo. My experience is that the hard plastic has yellowed and the plastic was clear on the item Thanks Larry Janeski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14781	From: Mark Preman	Date: 9/18/2001
Subject: AM, SHS, Crown, Downs Stuff For Sale

I finally got to catalog everything and type up the list. Contact me off line if you want me to e-mail a copy. Mark http://www.americanflyertrains.com ===== Mark B. Preman AmericanFlyerTrains.com __________________________________________________ Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14782	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 9/18/2001
Subject: Re: sound and repair

I like Ott products if you'e using AC. They can be found at http://www.trainexchange.com/ottother.htm and http://www.justrains.com/OMS.htm Clifford Manning wrote: > > I have been very impressed with the sound units on the Lionel and MTH > units. What does anyone use and how reliable is it with Flyer and other > S equipment. More importantly, if you are installing in AF equipment, > what do you buy? I guess I am looking for a break down of parts and > equipment so I know that it will work when done. > > I appreciate the help from Doug on a wiring problem. Thanks, it worked > great. > > I still am looking for repair plans/ manuals for an Electro Magnetic > Crane 583A and a 742 Hand Car. Both need work to be restored. Missing at > least one part on each. I tried Giardina but their online ordering would > not work. Job keeps me from contacting them during hours they are open. > > I also am looking for 2 metal frames to rebuild 2 Silver Bullet > passenger cars. Cast frames will do even though the sheet metal frames > were original. > > Last, my thoughts are with those that are suffering. May your God bless > you and give you peace. Keep em on the track. > > Clifford Manning > clifma19@... > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14783	From: Don Thompson	Date: 9/18/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer/Shrink Wrapping

I might be wrong, but I remember buying and selling pikemaster AF frieght cars packaged in the manner that you describe. I purchased these in the early 70's and they were in red white and blue boxes with no top, but a thin layer of plastic similar to shrink wrap. I think it was track cleaning car and crane that I sold. Don Thompson ljaneski@... wrote: > I saw the auction and it is anachronistic and incorrect bordering on > fakery. > > The heat shrink packaging, that the ebay seller claimed, > was not even available in the early sixties. > > There is no GILBERT logo on the packaging. > > The cardboard backing was unaged. When you see old boxes > the acid in the cheap paper of that time has usually > aged them to an almost yellow brown color. > > All of the Gilbert clear plastic packaging I have seen, > was hard plastic "blister pack". > This is true of the Pikemaster Klear Packs > and the Pikemaster store displays of track components. > > When NOT sold as sets, this is also true of the Gilbert Chemistry > Sets and the road race components (007,stock car, halter horse race). > > When I have stumbled across these items they are always in a > hard plastic case with a thin cardboard backing (blister pack) or > card board boxes with early sixties GILBERT logo. > > My experience is that the hard plastic has yellowed and the plastic > was clear on the item > > Thanks > > Larry Janeski > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 F-3s and Double Sheathed boxcars are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/emdf3s_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14784	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/18/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer/Shrink Wrapping

Hmm, Would someone post the URL of this auction, or at least the item number, so's I can take a looky -lou? I have three Pikemaster cars here in an early form of shrink wrap. Floodlight car, mobilgas tank car, and track cleaning car. The plastic wrap is very fragile! There is Gilbert logo all over the red & white boxes. S David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14785	From: af2rail@aol.com	Date: 9/18/2001
Subject: Re: Shrink Wrap

I did not see the auction item, but the cars everyone is referring is the All Aboard series made by American Flyer. These were packaged in a red and white box with a display window and then covered in clear plastic. As someone said earlier, they were wrapped tightly and sometimes crushed the corner of the box. These cars were all Pikemaster and promoted as companion sales to compliment the All Aboard panel sets. They are shown in the All Aboard instruction manual M6788 but not in their red and white box. The box has All Aboard over the display window. The series was made up of the 24316 Mobilgas Tank, the 24549 Erie Floodlight, the 24569 Industrial Brownhoist Crane, the 24076 UP Stockcar, and the 24533 Track Cleaning car. Don Rosa

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14786	From: Rick Evans	Date: 9/18/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer/Shrink Wrapping

I too, have a 24549 Floodlight car that I got off ebay not to long ago,...Gilbert clearly marked,...same type of shrink wrap I suppose. Books say,...'58-'66,..so I'm not sure what year mine was made, has Pikemasters. Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14787	From: Glenn Sarlitto	Date: 9/18/2001
Subject: Flyer Shrink Wrap PHOTO

I couldn't get the link to work for the ebay item that listed the shrink wrap but I copied the photo and placed it in the PHOTOS section for all to view. Glenn S http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/lst

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14788	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/18/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer Shrink Wrap PHOTO

Well, Now I've looked at the picture (of a Frontiersman car in shrink wrap). NOPE!! DEFINATELY NOT original. One dealer out here loved to shrink wrap everything, kept the dust off, I guess, maybe this is some of his merchandise, as he sent it all to his brother somewhere back east (hmm, almost every state is "back east" out here). S' David D. PS Also, the plastic looks too thick and "new" for original stuff.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14789	From: David	Date: 9/18/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer Shrink Wrap PHOTO

What a scam. That looks like something you'd see at The Great American Train Show. Definitely NOT original Gilbert.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14790	From: David Garber	Date: 9/18/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer Shrink Wrap PHOTO

another vote from another DAVID .I think this type of wrap is late 70's early 80's??? cant remember but not early 60's.cello pack on 5 sided box was used on AF and hard blister pack on 007 James Bond stuff in 65.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14791	From: Scott Holm	Date: 9/18/2001
Subject: The URLs for the shrink wrap auctions

In case you want to see the auctions: Item 1631603107 http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1631603107 item 1631605524 http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1631605524 __________________________________________________ Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14792	From: Rick Evans	Date: 9/18/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer Shrink Wrap PHOTO

Hmmm...I have no clue to how they would have been wrapped back in the early '60s! The cars look in pretty good shape,...and if they have never been used, and supposedly with oringinal wrapping,...where are the oringinal boxes??? Ifn' they have been stored this long in un- used condition,.. seems the boxes would be there! Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14793	From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com	Date: 9/19/2001
Subject: Shrink Wrap mystery - continued

Hmmmm, In my feeble mind I think both my 24055 Gold Belt Line Boxcar and my 24565 FY & PRR Flatcar w/Cannon load came in an open sided box sealed with a shrink wrap. Now this was in the sixties, and I was a kid. Boxes weren't important to me then. I'm kicking myself now, though, as those boxes were bouncing around in the attic for several years after that. They may yet be in a box somewhere, I hope. (Later thought - it may have been a box with one open side and a cellophane panel.) I'm sure some of you folks still have some nearly new-in-box items to enlighten us. As to my cannon, half the barrel broke off when I was a kid, well, younger. (I think there is still a lot of kid in me.) The remains went into a drawer somewhere, then was "packed up" and delivered to me when I was in my first house. The box is still there, but I haven't been in it since I received it in 1981. So I'm still not sure if I have the cannon. It sure was fun shooting paper wads out of it, though. My 2 cents worth for today. Bill Trefts ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14794	From: amerflyr@aol.com	Date: 9/19/2001
Subject: Flyer Shrink Wrapping

Just to confirm, I have personally opened (cringe) sealed cases of both the All Aboard crane cars and floodlight cars, which come sealed in a thin cello-like clear plastic. This wrap is similar to that found on individual pieces in the All Aboard packaging obtained from shows and the like. As mentioned before, it does tend to be tightly wrapped, and somewhat delicate.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14795	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/19/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer Shrink Wrapping

Opening sealed cases--hmm, it seems that there are quiet a few of these cases still floating around today. I have an opened one here, even. Were these over-produced, or never left the factory, or??? Not to say such stuff isn't 'rare' , but it seems to show up more often than one would suspect. BTW, about 15 years ago I heard of a set a guy had found, and went and looked at it, he had opened the box, but everything was still inside as ACG had packed it back in '55 ( I think, I can't identify the set number now). At the time I was flat broke, and he wasn't interested in selling it, as he wanted a train to run around under his tree (he wasn't a "toy train person"). I still wonder what happened to that set. S David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14796	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 9/19/2001
Subject: Shrink wrap

There's no way in this lifetime that that 24730 baggage car ever came in shrink wrap. It's just some Dinkus trying to fool the stupid. I've seen a few other non Pikemaster cars on auctions wrapped like that. It was someone's way of "preserving" the quality of the item. Steve Blackburn [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14797	From: ljaneski@bellsouth.net	Date: 9/19/2001
Subject: shrink

The ersatz shrink wrap I have seen at Gats and Greenberg were: 1. an unmarked spotlight car shrink wrapped to a sheet of thick cardboad with so much tension as to bend the card board back. The backing was unmarked. 2. a traditional allaboard box shrink wrapped with enough force that the box was crushed and the little celophane window material broken. I have seen allaboard boxes with loose fitting Polypropylene bag/wrapper that had a seam along the back. The material was almost opaque and scuffed. It looked very old. Thanks Larry Janeski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14798	From: Don Thompson	Date: 9/19/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer Shrink Wrapping

Dear David, Almost 30 years ago, Robin and I went to a unclaimed freight outlet in Red Bank, NJ and I found cases (at least a container full) of brand new AF in the original boxes. I was amazed.. At the time, I did not have enough $$$ to even buy an item.. At that time, I was not a "born again" Flyer enthusiast. A few years later I could have kicked myself. Don David Dewey wrote: > Opening sealed cases--hmm, it seems that there are quiet a few of these > cases still floating around today. I have an opened one here, even. Were > these over-produced, or never left the factory, or??? > Not to say such stuff isn't 'rare' , but it seems to show up more often than > one would suspect. > BTW, about 15 years ago I heard of a set a guy had found, and went and > looked at it, he had opened the box, but everything was still inside as ACG > had packed it back in '55 ( I think, I can't identify the set number now). > At the time I was flat broke, and he wasn't interested in selling it, as he > wanted a train to run around under his tree (he wasn't a "toy train > person"). I still wonder what happened to that set. > S > David D. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 F-3s and Double Sheathed boxcars are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/emdf3s_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14799	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 9/20/2001
Subject: NASG Library

I am pleased to announce that we have appointed a chairman for the Russell M. Mobley Memorial Library. He's a veteran S modeler who is well known to many of you; Dick Karnes. As the primary tending librarian, Dick will keep most of the material and artifacts with him. We're still ironing out the fine details of how the library will be set up and how to best serve the membership. More will be published at a later date. We have had several people answer our call for contributions so far. The neatest item so far is John Eichmann's offer to donate Russ Mobley's own collection of NASG Dispatches. If you want to donate any S-related item to the library, contact: Dick Karnes 4323 86th Ave SE Mercer Island, WA 98040-4124 One more reason to belong to the NASG! Thanks, Roy

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14800	From: Bob	Date: 9/20/2001
Subject: Lionel A.F. Sawmill ........

Dear Group, I just wanted to tell you about the bad experience that I had with my new Lionel /A.F. sawmill . I picked it up last Sunday from my local hobby store and was very impressed by the box. Very retro ! I unpacked everything and was also impressed by the packing . The only thing that I didn't like was that Lionel used the Lionel-looking man for the carriage box part.(I think that the A.F. guy always looked more life-like than the all blue Lionel man.) I set it up on my lay-out and did the wiring just has the instructions said.That's when my problems started . The problem was that only one motor worked. The sawmill blade spun but the log didn't move back and forth.The other motor and the silver plate that pushes out the cut boards didn't work either.I must have workd on that for an hour before giving up.I take it back to my local hobby guy ( who is a big Lionel guy) and after he exmined it he came up with the answer.The one motor was put in either upside down or backwards and it didn't run.Since only the one motor spun it chewed up the gears in the other motor.( which by the way is plastic ) Also the string underneath that moves the log carrige back and forth was strung wrong. I was so excited to get this piece and now I don't even know if I want it back.My local train guy went to order a new gear box and motor and since it's a brand new item....you guessed it...NO PARTS AVAILABLE !! Lionel is replacing my Sawmill with a new one ,no charge, thankfully. I'm so glad I bought M.T.H. version of "Gabe"................any other thoughts out there ??!? Bob S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14801	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 9/20/2001
Subject: FALL GET TOGETHER

I was looking forward to seeing some of you at the Central Jersey Fall Get Together this Saturday but will not be able to be there. If you take some pictures please post them for all to enjoy. Staying on the NPSG branchline of NASG track, Glenn

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14802	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 9/20/2001
Subject: AF Sawmill

Hi Bob, sorry about your sawmill. I bought one from the guy in Dayton who is closing shop 9/30. It ran perfect out of the box. Unfortuneately, quality control doesn't always get the bad one or two that get through. I'll bet the next one works great. This is also a good reason as to why we should support a hobby shop if they sell what we want. I know I hate to buy online when I can't see something in person. Plus, when you deal online, you get stuck with the shipping when it wasn't your fault. Chris B [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14803	From: Timboy@att.net	Date: 9/20/2001
Subject: Flyer curved track radius

Hi Guys, What is the radius (in inches) of Gilbert #702 Flyer curved track? From what point to what point is the radius measured? Is it from the very outside edge of the ties, the outside rails, the middle of the track, the inside rails or the very edge of the inside of the ties? I am designing a very precise layout and although I've checked all the sources I know, this information is elusive. Thanks, Tim

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14804	From: Howard Sheffield	Date: 9/20/2001
Subject: N- Way

Hi group Can anyone provide me with the e-mail address for N- Way Products in Oregon. Thanks Howard S _______________________________________________________________________ Free Domain Name Registration with Web Hosting at Lanset Communications. 56k Dialup, Web Design, and Colocation at http://www.lanset.net

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14805	From: russellmcc@aol.com	Date: 9/20/2001
Subject: Straightening AF Window Material

I have a couple of problems in cleaning up some otherwise nice (VG+/E-) AF cars. In both cases it has to do with window materials: 1) 600-series aluminum passenger cars - the window material is warped and must be straightened before it will stay in its grooves. Are there any reliable methods to do this? 2) 655 coaches - the window material is curled into a tube about 1 inch in diameter. Is there any reliable methods to flatten it? Also, in regard to shrink wrapped Gilbert AF... there was quite a bit of it sold several years ago in the Butterfield&Butterfield auction of a collection out of a San Diego Train Shop. My father and I were fortunate enough to win some at very reasonable bids. We photographed ourselves opening cartons which had been packed in the mid-1960s. It was all Pikemaster in the Red-White-Blue shrinkwrapped window boxes. Each carton contained four boxed cars of one type. We opened cartons containing 24533 Track Cleaners(white tank & silver tank versions mixed in the same carton), 24549 Searchlight Cars(white lamp & black lamp versions mixed in the same carton), 24316 Mobilgas Tank Cars(flat red & shiny red painted versions), and 24569 Brownhoists. Though the cars are relatively common it was a blast! The shrink wrap is quite tight on some of them, causing the boxes to "bow" in. Thanks for any guidance on the windows! Russell [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14806	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 9/20/2001
Subject: Straightening AF Window Material

I have had some luck straigtening the window strips from aluminum 660 cars. I soak the strips in warm water for a little while and then clamp them tightly between flat pieces of wood, leaving them there overnight. The key to reinstalling these windows is to add additional supports of thin (0.02") styrene strip between the window openings, in back of the strips, and into the same slots that the window strips go in. Three or four per side ought to do it. I have not had any luck with the late 655 window strips which typically curl up into a tube shape. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14807	From: Rick Evans	Date: 9/21/2001
Subject: Re: Straightening AF Window Material

This is what I did a while back with my original 655's from my youth. I wanted to use the original di-fuser paper and clear window sheet. I took a papertowel cardboard tube and sliced/cut it down the length of the tube so it could be rolled tighter to fit inside the coach. Then simply inserted it into the window material and popped it into the coach. Expanded out the material quite well and didn't have to use tape, glue, or whatever. BUT,...this only works with non-lighted coaches!! I do want to add lights to these 655's, so I'll have to use new material. I have re-done some Silver Bullet 655's, that I added lights to, using materials for windows that I found thrown away at the school where I work. (being a custodian...{wish I could think of that fancy word Dewey uses},..has it's advantages!) I found some nice heavier (SP?) rubbery type clear sheets that work great for windows. I believe I stole some paper from my daughter's drawing/coloring pad! I have used oringinal window material in a couple of coaches with lights that had the "curls"...but what a hassle just to keep the oringinal stuff!! I used tape to hold them in place!! Must be some good glue to use.....any other ideas out there?? Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14808	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 9/21/2001
Subject: Steve Blackburn's Vol 2 Video

I did some screen captures from Steve Blackburn's S Gauge Vol 2 video last night. http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/vol2/Thumbnails.html It has several segments. Steve shot some of it and other segments were shot by others. The quality varies from segment to segment. Steve has done an excellent job of putting it all together. Salt Lake train show, and several private collections are featured. Steve tries to get a close up of just about every piece of Flyer these guys own. Chris Burger's Christmas Layout & Miami Ohio modular layout are included. There is also a preview of a Scale layout included in Vol3. I suspect these videos will be the treasures just like the Heralds are now. If the Scale (or Narrow S) guys shot some video, I am suspect Steve could assist in the compilation. I know I would love to see that video. ===== Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com Photography - Computers - Trains __________________________________________________ Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help? Donate cash, emergency relief information http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Emergency_Information/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14809	From: mark.p.baker@bt.com	Date: 9/21/2001
Subject: Re: God bless their souls.....

May God bless the souls of the innocent who were killed today in Toulouse. Many people have been killed and injured, and families devastated. It's horrible. As horrible as it is, I am sure that the good people of Toulouse are going to get through this, even if there is more of it. You are about to see Toulouse at its best. My sincere and heartfelt sympathies to all my French brethren. Words fail. My thoughts and hopes are with you. With deepest sympathy to those who lost their lives and their loved ones. Mark.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14810	From: riechert@pop.phnx.qwest.net	Date: 9/21/2001
Subject: Re: Lionel AF sawmill

I bought my sawmill from Doug Peck. The packaging was first class- the AF looking box, wrapped in tissue paper and placed in an exact size shipping box. Unfortunately, when I opened it up one of the pulleys had fallen out of the arm which was easy enough to fix. The next problem was that the carrier didn't pick up the boards. After some study I realized that the carrier wasn't moving close enough to the building. Moving the crimped on end point of the string unerneath solved that. My last problem is that when the carrier gets to the end of the arm and dumps the board, the whole mechanism binds, the motor noticeably slows down, the arm raises up somewhat from the tension of the string. I'm guessing that I need to adjust the string some more but haven't had time to look at it. I am disapointed, though, that they didn't supply a Flyer style switch. I'll also need to put resistor in the power line because, I think, it goes WAY to fast on full Flyer transformer voltage. --- Jerry -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ .

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14811	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 9/21/2001
Subject: Lionel AF Sawmill

If the sawmill binds at the point described, the string is a little too short. TJ

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14812	From: mlmarmer	Date: 9/21/2001
Subject: Engine is running again!!

Back in February I wrote to this group about my 21130 Hudson having a problem of not running on the track, but only when you picked it up and pressed slightly on the reverse unit, then it would run great, only to stop when you let go of the reverse unit. Many of you were so kind to write about it and gave me tips on what to try. I have very little knowledge on the workings of these engines and proceeded to destroy the smoke unit in the process! Anyway, I found a shop to repair it and it runs and smokes like it used to! O:))))))!!!! The problem he wrote on the ticket about the reverse unit, just in case this happens to anyone else in the future, was something about the ground circuit needed to be repaired. I am not sure what that means but it is up and running again. Smoke element was replaced and is smoking up the room! What a great smell. LOL!! Better than the things we did in college! I better stop with that for I am way past those days! Go Terps! On a serious note, I everyone is giving money, blood or time to organizations that are working in New York and Virginia and of course, let us not forget the plane in Pennsylvania. I hope everyone is doing well in light of what happen to us last week, be well, Mike Marmer Germantown, Maryland [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14813	From: mlmarmer	Date: 9/21/2001
Subject: Re: Engine is running again!!

Hi David, You are not too far from Germantown! We are at the other end of RT. 27. The shop is in Manassas, which is a about 45 miles for me one way! I am sure there are closer places for you to get things fixed. I know Harwood Owings in Highland, Md near Laurel does good work and Ralph Loveless in Silver Spring, MD also. They are in the TCA book, maybe Jim Patterson in Silver Spring, also. But the engine runs great, so this place does great work also. He is open on Saturdays, so it would be a great day trip also to see some Civil War things, even though with things going on in the country right now. If you really want the address I will get the card. The shop does not have any new or used S items however, so don't go just for that. I was at a Greenberg Show in Chantilly, VA and brought the engine along in case someone would look at it, the reason it ended up in Manassas, not like the time my 21129 engine was taken to Model Railroad Center in Rockville in 1974 and the place closed up two months later (!!!!!). I was able to track (no pun intended) down the owner through Red's Hobby Shoppe (now gone too!) in Wheaton and it took 10 years to get it back! I wasn't into Flyer then and had no idea about the scarcity of that engine. Let me know if you want the address, Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "David A. Highfield" <davidh@...> To: "mlmarmer" <mlmarmer@...> Sent: Friday, September 21, 2001 3:30 PM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Engine is running again!! > Mike, > Out of curiosity, where is that repair shop? > Dave Highfield > Westminster, MD > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "mlmarmer" <mlmarmer@...> > To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, September 21, 2001 2:36 PM > Subject: [S-Trains] Engine is running again!! > > > > Back in February I wrote to this group about my 21130 Hudson having a > problem of not running on the track, but only when you picked it up and > pressed slightly on the reverse unit, then it would run great, only to stop > when you let go of the reverse unit. > > > > Many of you were so kind to write about it and gave me tips on what to > try. I have very little knowledge on the workings of these engines and > proceeded to destroy the smoke unit in the process! > > > > Anyway, I found a shop to repair it and it runs and smokes like it used > to! O:))))))!!!! > > > > The problem he wrote on the ticket about the reverse unit, just in case > this happens to anyone else in the future, was something about the ground > circuit needed to be repaired. I am not sure what that means but it is up > and running again. Smoke element was replaced and is smoking up the room! > What a great smell. LOL!! Better than the things we did in college! I > better stop with that for I am way past those days! Go Terps! > > > > On a serious note, I everyone is giving money, blood or time to > organizations that are working in New York and Virginia and of course, let > us not forget the plane in Pennsylvania. > > > > I hope everyone is doing well in light of what happen to us last week, be > well, > > > > Mike Marmer > > Germantown, Maryland > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14814	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 9/21/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer curved track radius

Flyer radius is 20" to the outside rail. Most people round it to 19" at the center between the rails, which is close enough, but it actually was measured as to the outer rail. Don't ask me if it was inside or outside the rail. Anyone recollect? Timboy@... wrote: > > Hi Guys, > What is the radius (in inches) of Gilbert #702 Flyer curved track? > >From what point to what point is the radius measured? Is it from the > very outside edge of the ties, the outside rails, the middle of the > track, the inside rails or the very edge of the inside of the ties? > I am designing a very precise layout and although I've checked all > the sources I know, this information is elusive. > Thanks, > Tim > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14815	From: Neil Trump	Date: 9/21/2001
Subject: Re: Terrorist Attacks

I am catching up on my emails after being away for a week which also had limited access to what was going on in the real world. Why I am responding to this email is because I feel let down by my American friends, in fact not just me but about another 52 million British people. I was saddened to learn in my newspaper today that your John McDonagh, Chairman of the National Irish Freedom Committee, openly vowed to continue raising funds for the IRA. He is basically saying that the IRA only kill in small numbers which is OK, but it is not OK to murder 6,000+ people in the US. I just don't see it, terrorism is terrorism. GBW claims he will shut down bank accounts of known terrorist support groups, I'm sure he will, but guess which one will remain open. It seems to me that all the time terrorism was happening off the shores of the US that was OK, but once the main land US gets involved the rules suddenly change. We are all aware over here that our Mr. Blair openly supports GBW, what this means now is that we now become a target, a softer target than the US. I would welcome 6,7,8 planes targeted in the UK and wiping out thousands of people, because it will be a small price to pay for what may/will be a larger threat, a terrorist 'dirty nuclear' weapon, how many thousands will this kill? At this point I shall get off my political soap box and apologise to the list owner for my outburst. Let us now pray for the innocent people that will murdered tonight, tomorrow night and ......... Neil T. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> To: "David A. Bollinger, (Co 21 & WC4J)" <DBolling@...> Cc: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 5:46 AM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Re: Terrorist Attacks > David, > As Gerald has already posted, our thoughts and prayers are with you and > your fellow firefighters and everyone who was personally touched by these > events. Even though I have met in person very few of this group's members, > you seem like old friends and even family (we even sometimes fight like > family!). So I am certain that all of us join in support. > The 11th was our 25th anniversary, but when the clock radio came on, and > I groggily heard that a plane had crashed into the WTC, there was little joy > in doing any celebrating. Every one of us probably knows someone who was > involved somehow: one friend here has a cousin who works in the Pentagon in > the center of the destroyed area, but he had gone across the street to get > some food, and survives. > I doubt I am composing this very well, so I shall stop, I only want to > express Linda's and my empathy for all who have been struck by this. > Sincerely, > David & Linda Dewey > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14816	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 9/21/2001
Subject: AD FOR A FRIEND

Here is a short AD for a Friend....E-Mail him for decals that you might need ...He is heavy into "S" Also check out his auctions on E-Bay....I just recived a AM Boxcar Custom painted& decaled for the Ken. State Police.......I had asked him if he could do a GP-7 for Central Oregon& Pacific ....No problem ...He says he has a lot of the smaller and unheard of lines avail. His E-Mail & E-Bay address is ...thefatearl@.......Tell him mike (anormal1) sent ya... Mike S. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14817	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 9/21/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, September 23, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14818	From: lancemccold@chartertn.net	Date: 9/21/2001
Subject: AF #600 Crossing Gate question

I am fixing up a #600 crossing gate. I purchased a reproduction pedestrian (sidewalk) gate, but I cannot figure out how to attach it so it goes down and up with the highway crossing gate. Can anyone give me any hints? Thanks, Lance McCold

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14819	From: gino restivo	Date: 9/21/2001
Subject: Re: AF #600 Crossing Gate question

the sidewalk gate should set onto pins from the side of the box / housing , it also must have one longer end to stick out into the roadway gate weight pin ..... road gate goes up it pushes down on the long end of the walk gate and it goes up ...it should come down freely with the roadway gate hope this may help , try a search in the msge archives if it doesn't, I'm sure x-ing gates have been covered gino ---Original Message----- From: lancemccold@... <lancemccold@...> To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Date: Friday, September 21, 2001 8:03 PM Subject: [S-Trains] AF #600 Crossing Gate question >I am fixing up a #600 crossing gate. I purchased a reproduction >pedestrian (sidewalk) gate, but I cannot figure out how to attach it >so it goes down and up with the highway crossing gate. Can anyone >give me any hints? > >Thanks, > >Lance McCold > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > --------------------------------------------------------------- NetZero Platinum Only $9.95 per month! Sign up in September to win one of 30 Hawaiian Vacations for 2! http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14820	From: Charlie&Edith	Date: 9/21/2001
Subject: 600 series window material

Russell, I used stencil material, a heavier sheet plastic left over from one of Edith's decorating projects. We cut this into strips that would slide into but fit tightly between the inside window rails, top to bottom. The thickness and stiffness is such, that it forced the window material to flatten by filling the "space" between the rail and the body. An added benefit was that it filled in the shrinkage in length of the original material making end spaces almost unnoticeable. This has been in place over two years and is holding up well in operation. Best wishes, Charlie

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14821	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 9/22/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer curved track radius

Chuck Smith wrote: >Most people round it to 19" at the center between the rails, which >is close enough, but it actually was measured as to the outer rail. >Don't ask me if it was inside or outside the rail. Anyone recollect? After assembling a full circle of Gilbert track, "evening up" the circle as much as possible, and measuring, I've found the "20 inch" spec that Gilbert sometimes gave actually applied beyond the outside end of the ties. (Your results may vary!) The "official" radius, judging from repro Gilbert layout templates, seems to be 19 inches at the track center. Adding half the gauge to that would give you 19 and 7/16 inches to the inside edge of the outer rail, and about 19.5 inches to the outer edge of same. When building our modular layout, I found the actual radius at track center to fall between 19 and 1/16 to 19 and 1/8 inches. I had to be picky about it because I wanted to keep the double mainline tracks absolutely parallel, even through cross-overs formed with two Af turn- outs. (Turns-out?) Assembling two #720s curve to curve will put your parallel track centers 5 and 1/8 inches apart, not 5 inches as the templates indicate. All that led me to check and re-check the corner radii I needed very closely. Hence the results above. Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14822	From: Richard Dunlap	Date: 9/22/2001
Subject: Noisy Handcars

All four of my 740/742 handcars are noisy compared to one that a friend has. Other than trying to but the one he has, is there a way to quiet them. They run o.k. and are lubed. Or do they just get noisy with wear. txflyer [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14823	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 9/22/2001
Subject: David Dewey, fact or fiction?

Having met David day before yesterday, I must warn all of you to think twice about taking American Flyer repair advice from him...................................................... He wears Orange and Green Hawaiian shirts while Mountain climbing..... Steve Blackburn Boise, Idaho [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14824	From: Rick Evans	Date: 9/22/2001
Subject: David Dewey, fact or fiction?

--- In S-Trains@y..., boss31@a... wrote: **((Having met David day before yesterday, I must warn all of you to think twice about taking American Flyer repair advice from him...................................................... He wears Orange and Green Hawaiian shirts while Mountain climbing.....))*** Steve,...and your point is?? :-) I can handle the shirts,...but HE was MOUNTAIN CLIMBING??? And he wasn't wearing plaid shorts I hope!! Rick "another Calif. Hawaiian shirt wearer" Evans

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14825	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 9/22/2001
Subject: Neil Trumps message

Before you all flame Neil Trump for his rather poorly thought out message . . . Stop. Do it off the list. This is the S-trains list, not the Terrorist Flame list. I don't quite know what he was getting at, but I have written him in private. Please do the same. I am certain his intentions are good even if his reasoning is unsound. This can get ugly if it is done in public. Pull back, think, and respond appropriately, in private. Thanx, Chris Z.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14826	From: John Denholm	Date: 9/23/2001
Subject: Fire at Train Show!

Hi All ; I thought I would drop you all a line as we had awee bit of excitement yesterday! some Roofers were fixing the Roof at our Local Train show yesterday and set there Big Truck on fire the Diesal Tanks caught and all hell broke loose Fire, Smoke, Fire Reels, Sirens, Bells aringin Kid's Howlin, people evact like right now! Our Brave Fire Dept was right on the Ball and our local CNR Police Guy jumped right in to help of course he had to leave his" Patrol car" as he had it on Display inside yet! Generally we only see the Yard bulls with flashing lights aye!:} I don't think he was to happy about that thoug as he too had a Display! Fortunatly the Fire on the Truck was put under control quite quickly and the Total evac of Hundreds of Folks and was done quite neatly!! And no serious damage done, to our Beloved Trains, and Displays, Our Show was Quite impressive Peg and I managed to get a great selection of Pics and I picked up a nice Model Kit of a Ambroid Snow Plow, with all the hardware in S'Guage for 8.00 Cdn, a great buy and its all complete to boot, I also got a Saw-Mill wood Burner and conveyor in S'Guage which is really a Great find, for 5.00 Cnd. There was't to much in S'Guage but the guys all said how much they admire our s guage and the nice Detail etc, so just a line to let you all know our Trains are sure goin great up NW Canada in Edmonton AB. Thanks John & Peg

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14827	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 9/23/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1152

In a message dated 09/23/2001 1:46:46 AM Mountain Daylight Time, S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes: > I can handle the shirts,...but HE was MOUNTAIN CLIMBING??? And he > wasn't wearing plaid shorts I hope!! > > Rick "another Calif. Hawaiian shirt wearer" Evans > > > > Alas, he was! I thought it to much to drop on you all at once. Steve > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14828	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 9/23/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, September 23, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14829	From: Robert E. Yablonski	Date: 9/23/2001
Subject: Flyer Sawmill

I received my AF Sawmill from Ron Leventon. Took it out of the box. Pulley bounced out of the package. Hooked it up, the unit made one trip and jammed. No amount of inspection would make it work. I sent it back to Ron, he of course, wanted me to sent it to flyer for repair. This upset me. I want a new working sawmill, not a repair. Tomorrow I am going to call the credit card company and have the charge reversed. Too bad AF makes junk. Robert E. Yablonski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14830	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 9/23/2001
Subject: AF Sawmill

I received my sawmill from Portlines on Friday. I opened it with care, expecting to have to send it back because of problems like others had. The pulley on the boom was loose in the box, as well as the roofs. I put everything together, and hooked it directly to the variable side of an 8B transformer. It ran beautiful with no problems whatsoever at all but the slowest speeds. On the slowest speed settings, it took a lot of effort for the board to be kicked out, then everything went fine. It needed to be run at about half speed on the dial to look the best to me. I think my 20 year old daughter and I played with it for 15-20 minutes. My wife returns from a business trip tonight, so then it will be her turn. I think I will be making a bigger stack of boards so it doesn't run out so soon though. Roger Petrella Franktown, CO

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14831	From: clay@davestnt.com	Date: 9/23/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer Sawmill

On Sun, 23 September 2001, "Robert E. Yablonski" wrote: > > Too bad AF makes junk. > > Robert E. Yablonski > Don't you mean "Lyin'L" not AF "Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?" "The Shadow Knows!" Clay Buckage Dave's Twacks & Twains Box 388 Tatamy, Pa. 18085 www.davestnt.com clay@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14832	From: David	Date: 9/23/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer Sawmill

> > Too bad AF makes junk. > > Robert E. Yablonski Incorrect!! Too bad LIONEL makes JUNK, is the correct statement. Always have, always will. Yet those Louies keep buying it up, and wasting their money. Real A.C. Gilbert AF was never junk.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14833	From: J_Gasal@Compuserve.com	Date: 9/23/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer Sawmill

Before you condemn the new unit, keep in mind that the original saw mill wasn't perfection compared to other flyer accessories. I bought an 1950's unit in excellent condition last spring. The boards would jam, the kicker plate that pushed the boards out would bind, and the cam that would push the kicker plat would also jam. The good news is that I was able to tinker with the unit and after a few hours, new flatter boards and some re-engineering, got it working so that it would work properly 95% of the time. --- In S-Trains@y..., "Robert E. Yablonski" <yabo@l...> wrote: > I received my AF Sawmill from Ron Leventon. > > Took it out of the box. Pulley bounced out of the package. Hooked it up, > the unit made one trip and jammed. No amount of inspection would make it > work. I sent it back to Ron, he of course, wanted me to sent it to flyer > for repair. This upset me. I want a new working sawmill, not a repair. > > Tomorrow I am going to call the credit card company and have the charge > reversed. > > Too bad AF makes junk. > > Robert E. Yablonski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14834	From: Don Thompson	Date: 9/23/2001
Subject: Re: 20th annual Fall Get Together

The Central Jersey S Scalers hosted their 20th Annual Fall Get-Together this past weekend. I was the best attended FGT to date with 20% more attendees than last year, This year's Clinic was on DCC and give by Mike Greene, Tommy Robichaurd and Helen Lenart. We would like to thank them for helping us out this year. On of the nicest things introduced this year at the FGT was the SSL&L CNR 2-6-0 operating with a Soundtraxx DCC sound unit. I operated flawlessly and sounded GREAT. Other items of interest were PortLines pilot model of their Brookside reefer, RSSVP Carling Black Label and Knickerbocker Beer Cars, Pennsy Models Painted and Lettered PRR X-29 pilot model, SHS had the test shots of their new F-7 A & B units as well as painted and lettered samples of the 3rd run reefers (including the three car sets - Fruit Growers Express, Burlington Ref. Express, NWX (green and yellow) and PFE (orange) and the PRR and GN re-built boxcars. We would like to thank all of those who attended and the dealers who displayed at this year's FGT. I would also like to thank those who helped us set up the modules on Friday and tear down today. -- Don Thompson PS If anyone took jpegs of the FGT this year, I will happily post them. Please send them to my e-mail address.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14835	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 9/23/2001
Subject: "Real A.C. Gilbert AF was never junk."

I have always considered most Pikemaster stuff, including the F-9's and Casey Jones locos, to be junk, and was very disappointed when the Gilbert Co. cheapened their line and started making it Interesting? Yes. Collectible? Yes. But junk all the same. TJ

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14836	From: Rick Evans	Date: 9/23/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer Sawmill

Haven't got the call from the train store yet about my sawmill,...I will let you know how mine operates and how many "bugs" it has, when I get it! Rick "Still sawin' logs by hand" Evans

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14837	From: Bill Lane	Date: 9/23/2001
Subject: Jones & Laughlin decals

Hi All, Someone was asking me about 1 month ago to contact him if I found extra Jones & Laughlin tank car decals. I have. Please contact me. (please be honest here - I will check if I have to) Thanks Bill

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14838	From: The Reis's	Date: 9/23/2001
Subject: Re: Flyer Sawmill

I keep hearing the saw mill is new, but isn't this just a re-release of the 2321 Lionel Flyer Saw Mill from 1986? They made both the Saw mill and Oil Drum Loader in those years. I had both for a number of years operating well and replaced them with originals as I found them. Just a thought. Eric Kenmore, Wa. -----Original Message----- From: J_Gasal@... [mailto:J_Gasal@...] Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2001 6:53 PM To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [S-Trains] Re: Flyer Sawmill Before you condemn the new unit.................

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14839	From: The Reis's	Date: 9/23/2001
Subject: American models GG1 on EBAY

I listed a GG1, Green, AC powered, highrail loco on EBAY yesterday. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1641498370 <http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1641498370> If you actually read this far and are the high bidder I will pay the first $10 of shipping. Just mention the Yahoo S-trains list. I am not a regular seller on ebay but have done well on the few things I have sold. Now back to your regular emails. Eric Kenmore, Wa. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14840	From: Robert W. Jackson	Date: 9/23/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: 20th annual Fall Get Together

Don Thompson wrote: > The Central Jersey S Scalers hosted their 20th Annual Fall > Get-Together this past weekend. <snip> I operated flawlessly and sounded > GREAT. <cut> Well, of course! We did not expect anything less from you. Bob Jackson

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14841	From: David	Date: 9/24/2001
Subject: Re: "Real A.C. Gilbert AF was never junk."

> > Interesting? Yes. Collectible? Yes. But junk all the same. > > TJ NOT!! Pike stuff may have looked and felt cheaper, but it ALWAYS ran like a scalded dog, and was not falling apart coming out of the box like Lionel garbage made since 1969.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14842	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 9/24/2001
Subject: Lionel AF Sawmill

Robert E. Yablonski <yabo@...> wrote: <Subject: Flyer Sawmill < <I received my AF Sawmill from Ron Leventon. < <Took it out of the box. Pulley bounced out of the <package. Hooked it up, the unit made one trip and <jammed. No amount of inspection would make it work. <I sent it back to Ron, he of course, wanted me to <sent it to flyer for repair. This upset me. I want <a new working sawmill, not a repair. < <Tomorrow I am going to call the credit card company <and have the charge reversed. < <Too bad AF makes junk. First off, Ron has no choice. This unit is under warranty and has to be sent back to Lionel. Secondly, Ron could not get parts to repair the unit because Lionel does not yet have them in stock. It appears that somewhere between 1 in 10 to 1 in 20 of these units are defective out of the box. Many people bought this product because it says "American Flyer" on it and was made using "original dies." However, it was made by Lionel, did not use original AF-type parts (e.g., it has a can motor and a nylon gear off of the worm drive) and does not even come with an American Flyer-style button. It seems that, at least so far, MTH does a bettter job of reproducing American Flyer accessories than Lionel does of making American Flyer reproductions. Of course, with MTH you do not get the American Flyer sticker, which is being shown to be worthless since it is Flyonel AF. fortunately, several of my customers switched their Sawmill orders to the MTH version. When it comes out next month we will be able to compare product. Joe ===== Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,300 part lines American Models ## S-Helper Service ## Gilbert Rerpoductions Featuring Parts by Toy Trains International joestrainrepair@... Master Card/Visa __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14843	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 9/24/2001
Subject: Re: Lionel AF Sawmill

You should see the original Flyer sawmill one of our club members has. It's proof that ACG did make some junk near the end. It doesn't behave as well as the Lionel repro I just got. The repro may have introduced a new problem from what I'm hearing about the plastic gear, but mine is working fine so far. It also operates more reliably than the original I referred to above. We have used the original at shows and needed to insert only one board at a time before loading it in the car because it was prone to jam with the stacked boards. MTH might be better. They re-engineered the chute door on the coaling station so it works much better than my original Flyer. The same club member referred to above has the MTH coal loader and I've seen the door. Joseph Haenn wrote: > > Robert E. Yablonski <yabo@...> wrote: > > <Subject: Flyer Sawmill > < > <I received my AF Sawmill from Ron Leventon. > < > <Took it out of the box. Pulley bounced out of the > <package. Hooked it up, the unit made one trip and > <jammed. No amount of inspection would make it work. > <I sent it back to Ron, he of course, wanted me to > <sent it to flyer for repair. This upset me. I want > <a new working sawmill, not a repair. > < > <Tomorrow I am going to call the credit card company > <and have the charge reversed. > < > <Too bad AF makes junk. > > First off, Ron has no choice. This unit is under > warranty and has to be sent back to Lionel. Secondly, > Ron could not get parts to repair the unit because > Lionel does not yet have them in stock. > > It appears that somewhere between 1 in 10 to 1 in 20 > of these units are defective out of the box. Many > people bought this product because it says "American > Flyer" on it and was made using "original dies." > However, it was made by Lionel, did not use original > AF-type parts (e.g., it has a can motor and a nylon > gear off of the worm drive) and does not even come > with an American Flyer-style button. It seems that, > at least so far, MTH does a bettter job of reproducing > American Flyer accessories than Lionel does of making > American Flyer reproductions. Of course, with MTH you > do not get the American Flyer sticker, which is being > shown to be worthless since it is Flyonel AF. > fortunately, several of my customers switched their > Sawmill orders to the MTH version. When it comes out > next month we will be able to compare product. > > Joe > > ===== > Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9 > 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 > Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer > Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,300 part lines > American Models ## S-Helper Service ## Gilbert Rerpoductions > Featuring Parts by Toy Trains International > joestrainrepair@... Master Card/Visa > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14844	From: David	Date: 9/24/2001
Subject: Re: Lionel AF Sawmill

Ok Chuck, and how old is that original by this date, and how much abuse did it endure before your club member obtained it?? Both answers unforunately make your point moot. I also seriously doubt that back in 1959, you would be able to find 4, 5, or 6 customers in a row who bought one new in the box from Gilbert and all were falling apart in the box. Lionel has always produced garbage, and thats not going to change any time soon. Its not that Gilbert absolutely never had a defect leave the factory, thats not practical. However, to say Gilbert produced junk because a 43 year old original with an unknown past is acting up and running horribly is rediculous.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14845	From: Bob	Date: 9/24/2001
Subject: What is.....?

Dear Group , One quick question.(I know one quick answer ).What exactly is the sintered-iron side frames on a lot of A.F. trucks made of ?? Please post any and all answers.Thanks..........Bob S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14846	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 9/24/2001
Subject: Re: Lionel AF Sawmill

David wrote: > > Ok Chuck, and how old is that original by this date, and how much > abuse did it endure before your club member obtained it?? Both > answers unforunately make your point moot. Looks to me like those were questions, not answers. Actually the abuse factor is probably a non issue. It has been treated well and has had replacement parts. What's interesting is that the original and repro have the same tendencies for failure: boards tend to hang up. It's about a 90+% success rate feeding boards. >I also seriously doubt > that back in 1959, you would be able to find 4, 5, or 6 customers in > a row who bought one new in the box from Gilbert and all were falling > apart in the box. Lionel has always produced garbage, and thats not > going to change any time soon. I won't defend Lionel, having had to spend weeks debugging my NP passenger set. My point was that Flyer also produced some flaky stuff. They were TOYS. > Its not that Gilbert absolutely never > had a defect leave the factory, thats not practical. However, to say > Gilbert produced junk because a 43 year old original with an unknown > past is acting up and running horribly is rediculous. Junk, like a Pikemaster F unit, Is junk no matter how new or old it is. As to the question of age, in my experience as a mechanical engineer I find that things that are designed well work well. The problems with the Flyer sawmill were endemic to the design. They didn't get worse with normal wear and just plain age. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14847	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 9/24/2001
Subject: Re: What is.....?

You already named it- called sintered iron, from a powder metalurgy process. It's a process where hot powdered iron was pressed into a mold at tremendous pressure and fused. A similar process was used to make sintered bronze bearings. Bob wrote: > > Dear Group , > One quick question.(I know one quick answer ).What exactly > is the sintered-iron side frames on a lot of A.F. trucks made of ?? > Please post any and all answers.Thanks..........Bob S. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14848	From: Bill Lane	Date: 9/24/2001
Subject: lettering remover

Hi Everyone, I came across an item on Ebay a few months ago by accident when surfing my usual PRR variations. It claimed to be able to remove just the lettering and leave the paint intact. It was cheap, so I bid the Dutch auction. I just tried it. It REALLY works well. I was removing the lettering with a Q-tip on a Golden Wheels die cast taxi. It removed just what I wanted in 2 minutes leaving the paint intact and unnoticeable. You could also use it to do very specific weathering. The small container will last you a while. I have NO affiliate with the seller. Check it out. http://www.erie.net/~joepol/ Bill

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14849	From: David	Date: 9/24/2001
Subject: Re: Lionel AF Sawmill

Well, anyone who would call an American Flyer F3 junk doesn't know anything about American Flyer. You cannot judge a book by its cover, and that statement is doing exactly that. Those units were simple in design but ran like a charm. I'll bet not many were found with parts falling off in the box when new either. THATS the point. Not how pretty it is, or how scale it is, or wheither is a marvel of engineering. How many had parts falling off or refused to run when new from the box?? It was the answers to those two question I posed earlier that were the issue in my previous statement, and they still make your point moot. The answers were... Anything mechanical will wear and go out of adjustment with age, and unless an item is still mint, you can never tell how much abuse or over use its been subjected to. If it needed parts, it was most likely abused to some extent or used hard, parts don't "just break" when an item in sitting still in storage. The other point is, your comparing brand new with parts falling off, to a 43 year old unit thats well used and possibly abused to prove that American Flyers were junk?? Sorry this is never going to fly, and the statement still sounds rediculous. :o)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14850	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 9/24/2001
Subject: Flyer F Units (was Lionel Sawmill)

David: I consider Flyer Funits to be junk, so I guess I don't know anything about American Flyer You see, I didn't know that a toy train should sound like a coffee grinder and look like a cartoon. Guess the 60 or so magazine articles on American Flyer published under my name must have been ghost written. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14851	From: roy inman	Date: 9/24/2001
Subject: FW: [S-Trains] Re: "Real A.C. Gilbert AF was never junk."

David, I must respectfully disagree with you about the "Lionel garbage". I do only have four of the Flyonel sets and a couple of engines, but in truth they all ran fine out of the box. Maybe mine were the rare exceptions, I don't know. The Pony Express set with the B unit sound, for instance, is really quite terrific. Paint job is excellent on all. I don't have the AFL sawmill, so can't offer an opinion on it. Regards, Roy Inman ---------- > From: "David" <Dave0616@...> > Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 11:27:00 -0000 > To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [S-Trains] Re: "Real A.C. Gilbert AF was never junk." > >> >> Interesting? Yes. Collectible? Yes. But junk all the same. >> >> TJ > > NOT!! Pike stuff may have looked and felt cheaper, but it ALWAYS ran > like a scalded dog, and was not falling apart coming out of the box > like Lionel garbage made since 1969. > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14852	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 9/25/2001
Subject: Respect One Another

Ok folks, Some of you have been real good about framing your remarks with things like "in my humble opinion' and 'respectfully'. Please try and remember these are 'opinions' about 'toys & models' and lets try and respect each other even if we think the other guys opinion is BS. Remember we all have our own opinions and its ok to express them, but lets try and be nice. If you disagree with this approch please contact me off list and we can hash it out. ===== Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com Photography - Computers - Trains __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14853	From: joeawood@aol.com	Date: 9/25/2001
Subject: Sawmill boards

I have run a friends mill on our club layout for hours one problem that may be happening is the boards are not straight. Examine them very carefully if they have a slight warp or twist they will definatly hang up. Also a little dry lube on them will help. You can use soap or parifin wax rub the edges ends and faces of the boards with a cake of soap or wax, wipe them off with a cloth do not leave any excess on the boards. If the boards are not stock they may be slightly oversize or undersize I believe from examining some originals they were made from Birch making them out of some other material such as pine or balsa will weigh differently this will also create problems. We run the mill hundreds of cycles during a show and only have a few occasional jams. The boards should be stored in a dry container when not used for any length of time humidity may cause cupping warping or twisting and will definatly have an affect on the condition of the lumber and affect the performance of the unit [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14854	From: eddie rickenbacker	Date: 9/25/2001
Subject: Re: "Real A.C. Gilbert AF was never junk."

--- roy inman <rinphoto@...> wrote: > David, > I must respectfully disagree with you about the > "Lionel garbage". > > The Pony Express set with the B unit sound, for > instance, is really quite > terrific. > Paint job is excellent on all. > I don't have the AFL sawmill, so can't offer an > opinion on it. >Let me offer my disagreement, too.i collect and OPERATE 3 gauges- S (primary), 0 (at least 5 mfrs, 1910 to present) and Standard. My first and foremost love is A.C. Gilbert flyer- be it pre-war 0 three rail or postwar S. Gilbert was an inovator in toy trains, making what RC aircraft modelers call "stand off scale" eqipment for the mass market. quality and realism (paint schemes) improved steadily, until the "5 digit" age arrived in 1958. The 2 position E-unit is a particular point-it was re-designed at least 3 times-i have engines from 1963 and 4 that were new in the wrapper, and i had problems a plenty with the E-units. The motors, on the other hand , are superior pullers and runners compared the previous designs-and there is NOTHING wrong with the early design, either. The cheapening of the rolling stock, on the other hand, was a really BAD move. The Flyonel items, remember, are the same components as the late Gilbert ones-the cheapening was initiated in New Haven, not Michigan. And Flyonel HAS improved the construction with the metal couplers- MUCH more rugged than Gilbert (i had coupler claws break off at the hinge pin in 1958, so i am not talking about 40 year old plastic). The paint jobs are , as was Gilbert, state of the art-the Gilbert Eagle and Pony Express looked great in the late 50's, but the visual appeal of the 80's revivals of those sets is a night and day experience. As to Lionel garbage, in my experience, that boils down to 1 bad sound board in the MoPac Eagle B unit. OOPS- i forgot a curiosity-the Nickel Plate Road gondola-i have 2, because the first one that i purchased was stamped on one side only-a quality oversight that has given me a unique(??) variant. My promlems with The Big L new production items have been zero. My total of Flyonel and Lionel new items, locomotives and rolling stock, is over 100 and that boils down to a less than 2% problem rate. My MTH experience, in 0 and Standard gauges, approaches 50%-trucks gauged too narrow(400E Blue Comet) severed wires (Railking PRR streamliner set, 400E and 390E), dead short from the factory(400E, 390E, 392E,Boulevard lights(3 out of 12)). AS far as comparing L and AF from 46-60,it's apples and oranges-you might as well compare them to H0. And BOTH firms had a huge cheapening of the product begining in '59. Here's a true story-for Christmas in '64, my cousin got a Gilbert slot car set.Nothing worked. His Dad had purchased it at the Gilbert factory store, called, and was told to bring it back, in person. I went along-hey, i was going to A.C.'s shop for the first time!! The man at the service desk told my uncle to pull his car up to a truck dock, where the fellow GAVE Joe 20 slot car sets!! The Gilbert fellow said that we should get a working set out of that lot!!this was January of 1965.As to the F9's, they were competing with Marx for entry-level kids-if you compare them, they are identical in layout and construction. BTW, once i used my UP F9 to pull the Pony Express-complete with the 3 extra coaches-it pulled them! Not well, but it completed several laps around the layout. My favorite Pre-war marque, BTW is Ives-now, THERE was a toy train! All our E-units postwar are derived from Ives. Personally, I strongly dislike the divisiveness that brand-or number of rails-loyalty causes in this hobby. I have come to get a huge kick out of toy, scale, vintage AND modern toy trains. There's no right or wrong-just different tastes. Every manufacturer has had its great stuff, and its crap. Flyer and Lionel BOTH went out of business within a few months of eachother. Like the products or not, MPC saved both by buying and re-introducing the marques. Like HIM or not, Richard Koontz saved both marques from mediocrity. I think Flyer deserves better that it's gotten, but at least it's still out there. Ya gotta love 'em to have 'em, ya gotta run 'em to ENJOY 'em-regardless of age, era, scale(?) or manufacturer. So as, Mammy Yokum(another NEW Haven creation) said-" Ah has spoken!!".-j marganski __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14855	From: Keith B. Thompson - Sun	Date: 9/25/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] lettering remover

There is an auction currently going on for this stuff. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1642340902 It does not look like you can place a single order directly from this person (according to the website). Also, the guy needs a name for it! It was quite a pain to find the ebay item. I to have NO affiliation with the seller, though I must admit to knowing Mr. Lane :) kbt > Hi Everyone, > > I came across an item on Ebay a few months ago by accident when surfing my > usual PRR variations. It claimed to be able to remove just the lettering and > leave the paint intact. It was cheap, so I bid the Dutch auction. I just > tried it. It REALLY works well. I was removing the lettering with a Q-tip > on a Golden Wheels die cast taxi. It removed just what I wanted in 2 minutes > leaving the paint intact and unnoticeable. You could also use it to do very > specific weathering. > > The small container will last you a while. > > I have NO affiliate with the seller. Check it out. > http://www.erie.net/~joepol/ > > Bill

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14856	From: sigma@ecn.ab.ca	Date: 9/25/2001
Subject: PA

I have an Omnicon PA conversion with American Flyer body shell (undecorated) which I don't plan to use. It has run perhaps 50 feet. I bought it 12 years or more ago, before I realized that although Canadian National tested this locomotive it did not buy. Any interest? Joe Pereira email: sigma@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14857	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 9/25/2001
Subject: CNW REFER

There is a nice looking 5 digit CNW refer on EBAY.1642547753 is the item number.I'm currently high bidder but I'm sure that won't last long,way out of my range. Keith _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14858	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 9/25/2001
Subject: Re: FW: [S-Trains] Re: "Real A.C. Gilbert AF was never junk."

Liionel graphics are top notch. I should mention that after I debugged my NP set it runs like a champ and will pull the wallpaper off the walls. roy inman wrote: > > David, > I must respectfully disagree with you about the "Lionel garbage". > I do only have four of the Flyonel sets and a couple of engines, but in > truth they all ran fine out of the box. Maybe mine were the rare exceptions, > I don't know. > The Pony Express set with the B unit sound, for instance, is really quite > terrific. > Paint job is excellent on all. > I don't have the AFL sawmill, so can't offer an opinion on it. > Regards, > Roy Inman > > ---------- > > From: "David" <Dave0616@...> > > Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 11:27:00 -0000 > > To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [S-Trains] Re: "Real A.C. Gilbert AF was never junk." > > > >> > >> Interesting? Yes. Collectible? Yes. But junk all the same. > >> > >> TJ > > > > NOT!! Pike stuff may have looked and felt cheaper, but it ALWAYS ran > > like a scalded dog, and was not falling apart coming out of the box > > like Lionel garbage made since 1969. > > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14859	From: Jay E. Mellon	Date: 9/25/2001
Subject: Response to S Gaugian Letter

S Folk: There is a letter in the Sept./Oct. 2001 S Gaugian from a Bruce Smale that I just have to respond to. It seems that Bruce attended a GATS show in Anaheim, CA and was aghast to find no S layouts and no S products for sale. He then takes S manufacturers to task for not being at the show with their products and poses the question, "What do we need to do to get you involved with the train shows?" Bruce,...time for a Reality Check. :-} The vast majority of S manufacturers have full time careers which keep them plenty busy, in addition to their modeling activities. I know of only two manufacturers that devote their full time to production of S products: Ron Bashita of American Models and Bill Wade of BTS (O.K. I know he does HO and O, as well). In their "spare time", the proprietors of S Helper Service (Don, Robin, & Mike) have developed one of the nicest RTR lines of S scale model railroad products ever seen. Frankly, I am in awe of how much these folks (all S manufacturers) get accomplished. Obviously, with limited time, they have to focus their marketing efforts on train shows that will have a national impact (e.g. NMRA & NASG conventions, S-Fest, S-Spree, etc.). If they followed the GATS entourage around the country, I doubt they would have time to produce the objects of our adoration. So, Bruce, let me re-direct your question back to you. What do we need to do to get you involved with the train shows? The lack of S presence at shows clearly calls for action by local S modelers. I counted no less than four S standard gauge and narrow gauge clubs in the Southern Calif. area listed in the recently published 2001 NASG Directory. Surely with that number of S modelers in the area, you could come up with a group of people to put together a display layout to take to local shows. Do some networking. We faced the same situation in S.E. Louisiana 10 years ago. We built a display layout and use it to promote S model railroading in as many shows in our area as we can. I know that Allied Model Trains (in L.A.) used to carry some S product. Palmdale Hobbies has one of the best selections of S product I have ever seen in a shop. Contact them and see if they would be willing to attend some local shows. At the risk of sounding like a Dilbert cartoon caption, rather than looking at this situation as a liability, look at it as an opportunity to promote S. With 11 million residents in the Sou. Calif. area, you surely have a huge pool of potential converts. If you aren't a member of NASG, join it. It has a number of resources that can help you promote S in your area. Good luck. 'S'incerely, Jay Mellon New Orleans, LA

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14860	From: Robert Wight	Date: 9/25/2001
Subject: My Fly-onel sawmill

Just a short input on my experience with my new lionel sawmill. It ran great right out of the box. The only trouble i had was me and my son had it at full speed and we were feeding the lumber in as fast as we can and we put one in wrong and jammed it. Just like a real sawmill. Jams when you are screwing around. Reminds me of my younger days in Oregon playing on the green chain. Im glad it didn't strip the nylon gear. It showed no damage. So im very pleased with mine. I don't care for the button, but that's no big deal. I'm Very pleased. The only reason I chosen the Lionel over the MTH was only because of the timing. Lionel was coming out at a time that was more convenient and affordable for me at the time. Happy Railroading Bob Wight _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14861	From: Don Thompson	Date: 9/25/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Need SHS F3 unit

Dear Butch, All of our B units are now available. The price is $199.95 for the DC no sound version, $299.95 with the AC/DC Locomatic sound equipped and $299.95 for the DCC Soundtrax sound unit models. Individual A units are available for some roadnames, you would need to call Robin to see what is in stock as this changes from Day to Day. The prices are $199.95 for the DC no sound version, $299.95 with the AC/DC Locomatic sound equipped and $299.95 for the DCC Soundtrax sound unit models. Don Butch Holtgrieve wrote: > Hey Guys, > > Anyone out there with a SHS F-3 A or B unit that is excess to your > needs. Would like to acquire either an extra A or B unit painted for > the Union Pacific. > > Butch H. > > To see or post Photos visit > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Scale/files/ > or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/ > To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 F-3s and Double Sheathed boxcars are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/emdf3s_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14862	From: Milton	Date: 9/25/2001
Subject: Special Meeting Next Month At OKC

Their will be an Special Meeting next month, Around the 2nd weekend in October, On the 13th...This special meeting will be to setup A new railgroup club, here within the OKC area and they will be having their 1th meeting in 2 weeks. The meeting will be at the McDonalds on NW23 & Broadway Ave. (Close to the mainline of the Red Rock Sub, 23rd street bridge) Meeting is called for 8Pm. Is meeting open to all people, and would You all pass the word around, as to this 1th meeting of OKRailway. If you need more INFO please E-Mail wiz83053@... 73's...Milton Obuch, CEO/Owner of: Trains of the OKC Area & Okrailway

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14863	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 9/25/2001
Subject: Gats

In responce to the "S" layouts at Gats shows in the So Cal area ...Iwent to one in Pomona, Ca About 30 miles from Anahiem....There were a couple of "S" layouts ....Also there was the guy (Don't remember his name ) fromClassic Toy Trains in Rowland Hgts. You know the one that is marketing the new solid rail track. I haven't been to the Lancaster store But I'll tell you that Classic Trains is floor to ceiling AF....Cal Stuart will be in Pasadena this Nov. & TTOS the mostly all Lionel Club has a n AF off shoot of their main Assoc. I go to all of TTOS meets every 3mos in glendale and have gotten alot of flyer...They always have an "S" layout that anyone can run their own trains on...So there is a "BIT" of Flyer interest in this area....Also terir is Train Depot in San Dimas....about 5 mi from Pomona....This coming Sunday Allied will have an auction in Arcadia near the Santa Anita Race Track...Have I left out anyone ....More than Likely Mike S. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14864	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 9/25/2001
Subject: Re: Response to S Gaugian Letter

Many thanks to Jay for the heads-up on this issue. I agree with Jay's turnabout. What's with the "you guys" stuff, Bruce? A little story... A couple of years ago, my wife and I contacted GATS about bringing our modular S hi-rail layout to the up-coming GATS show at the Orange County Fairgrounds in Costa Mesa. The show was scheduled about 10 months away, so we figured we were giving sufficient notice of our availability. We were wrong. In fact, I found out from other sources that, as far as GATS shows in Orange County are concerned, it's pretty tough to get a new layout into the show that hasn't already established a presence in past shows. Why? Limited room. There's so many clubs in the area attending with huge modular layouts, they can't fit any more in. As it is, some of the clubs run smaller set- ups than they usually might. Unfortunately, circumstances have precluded us from getting our system out of the house this year, but we hope to give GATS another try someday, Lord willing. Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14865	From: Bill Clark	Date: 9/26/2001
Subject: Photos of turbine pilot from Jim Kindraka

Jim sent 4 pictures of the pilot model of the new turbine to Don Thompson. Don asked me to post them, so I've put them in a "turbine pilot" album in both S-trains and S-scale photo areas. Take a look, this is an amazing model! Great work, Jim! http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Scale/lst http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/lst Bill

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14866	From: colin_olsen@hotmail.com	Date: 9/26/2001
Subject: AF/Lionel Sawmill

I received my newly issued sawmill,(long awaited), opened the shipping carton and was dismayed to see "American Flyer" proudly printed and then Made in China. My how times have changed! Set the sawmill on the layout, operated it for a few loads of lumber and then a board jammed because it did not drop poperly (also went un- noticed by me)in place. The can motor is pretty powerful because it stripped the gears off the drive gear before I could shut down. Anyway, totally inoperable, unrepairable. I called Lionel customer service, they gave me a return authorization, took down my info, were very polite about all of it. Return the sawmill to them, and with in 3 wks got a replacement. Now I carefully reload the lumber on the replacement and it works fine. So, sawmill operators, be careful. Colin

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14867	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 9/26/2001
Subject: New Flex Track

Just for fun I took one section of S-Helper track and made a loop. Yes thats about a 6 inch radius loop. see the video in the S-Trains Yahoo group files section. It is called Trolly3.avi http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/trolly3.avi Enjoy!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14868	From: Robert E. Yablonski	Date: 9/26/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1154

Gentlemen, Boy am I sorry I said the J word (Junk). We all have opinions. I own about 30 engines and a few hundred cars. It upsets me when stuff arrives and is either broken, or just does not meet expectations. Sorry I am such a perfectionist. But, it has to work out of the box or it is junk. Robert E. Yablonski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14869	From: Don Thompson	Date: 9/26/2001
Subject: Re: New Flex Track

Dear Paul, Wow, thanks for posting the video of the trolley. Robin and I had a good laugh. I can't believe that you were able to make a 6" radius in S scale. Don Paul Yorke wrote: > Just for fun I took one section of S-Helper track and made a loop. > Yes thats about a 6 inch radius loop. > see the video in the S-Trains Yahoo group files section. It is called > Trolly3.avi > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/trolly3.avi > > Enjoy! > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 F-3s and Double Sheathed boxcars are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/emdf3s_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14870	From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com	Date: 9/26/2001
Subject: Glue: Metal to Plastic?

Friends, Just received a Branford Diner through parcel post and found the chimney bouncing around loose. What glue would you recommend to reattach it? Thanks in advance, Bill Trefts BTW: I may not have any Hawaiian shirts, but I do have some that practically glow in the dark! Hi, David. ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14871	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 9/26/2001
Subject: 1/64th SCALE CARS & TRUCK/BLATANT AD

I just listed some 1/64 scale cars and a truck on E-bay Item # 1643240500 Take a look .....I will give this group a price of $17.50 for the set of 5 some choice of color right now but that may change....That comes out to $3.50per car and includes shipping....Mike S. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14872	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 9/26/2001
Subject: Re: New Flex Track

I see a dozen tiny people plastered to the right side windows... :^) Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14873	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 9/26/2001
Subject: Re: AF/Lionel Sawmill

Colin wrote: >Set the sawmill on the layout, operated it for a few loads of lumber >and then a board jammed because it did not drop poperly (also went >un-noticed by me)in place. The can motor is pretty powerful because >it stripped the gears off the drive gear before I could shut down. >Anyway, totally inoperable, unrepairable. Given the fact that occasional jamming is practically unavoidable with such an accessory, I can't help but wonder why Lionel didn't incorporate a slip-clutch of some kind into the drive mechanism to spare the gears. It would have saved them and their customers a lot of trouble. Such things are found routinely in cassette tape players costing as little as $30. But, given the configuration of the can motor conversion done to the Alco/Geep power truck years ago, it's evident that Lionel doesn't think too hard when they re-engineer AF designs. Neither do they seem to adequately test the designs, apparently. Maybe operating the L/AF sawmill at a reduced voltage will spare the drive mechanism when the inevitable "logjam" occurs. Has anyone tried that yet? Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14874	From: Rick Evans	Date: 9/26/2001
Subject: Down at the ol' sawmill....

Finally picked up my sawmill on Tuesday and hooked it up today. It hasn't made it off the coffee table to the layout though! After my bumbling around trying to get it put together right,...it worked fine....so far!! I did keep a close watch on the boards when loading,...had a couple go cock-eyed! I would imagine someone sells repro boards for the sawmills,..five sure isn't enough! Probably take forever to get any out of Lionel. Has anyone made their own boards?? Rick "Sawin' more than Z's now" Evans.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14875	From: Robichaud, Thomas Jr (Thomas)	Date: 9/27/2001
Subject: Re: Down at the ol' sawmill....

Yo: I have made them for an older Lionel unit. What I have found is that if you custom build the boards so they come out of the slot without turning they are much more reliable. I ended up making them out of hard wood, and a little bigger than the original ones. They work great every time. Tom Robichaud -----Original Message----- From: Rick Evans [mailto:comic@...] Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2001 2:42 AM To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [S-Trains] Down at the ol' sawmill.... Finally picked up my sawmill on Tuesday and hooked it up today. It hasn't made it off the coffee table to the layout though! After my bumbling around trying to get it put together right,...it worked fine....so far!! I did keep a close watch on the boards when loading,...had a couple go cock-eyed! I would imagine someone sells repro boards for the sawmills,..five sure isn't enough! Probably take forever to get any out of Lionel. Has anyone made their own boards?? Rick "Sawin' more than Z's now" Evans. S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14876	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 9/27/2001
Subject: glue, sawmill, flex/trolley

I recommend Future Glue products. The Magnum bonds almost anything to anything. Avail at Home Depot. About 1 1/2 years ago, I had a heck of time getting my LTI 2321 sawmill to run reliably. I think I posted a summary awhile back. I ended up getting it to run great. Paid $300 for it. The originals were going for $400 or more. Felt a little bad recently to see the new ones for only ~$80, but then again the 2321 has metal gearing and easily survives jams. I ended up making my own boards, installing a guide underneath to ensure more repeatable placement of the push-arm against the ejection mechanism lever underneath the deck (piece of moulding worked great) and tuning (gently bending) that lever until it exerted the right range of motion against each board. The main problem with mine, however, turned out to be that the indented "runners" on the ejection plate were not as well formed/defined as they should have been. I removed the plate and peened them in more clearly. Since then I've run dozens of 11-board stacks (knock on wood) without failure. I run with 13volts. I tried a range of voltages and that one turned out to be the best combination of speed and reliability. I loved that 6" radius video. I've been thinking about replacing my 742 run with a cross-town trolley, but have limited space. I'll bet I'm not alone. I predict a run on trolley and flex track sales. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14877	From: gino restivo	Date: 9/27/2001
Subject: Re: diner chimney

on most originals their should be a push nut ( speed nut ) to hold it in place , you can get them at you local hardware store i would suggest silicone sealer if you go towards glue, as it can be peeled off if needed ....pliobond was also used , it is a heavy industrial type contact cement gino -----Original Message----- From: wmhtreftsv@... <wmhtreftsv@...> To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Date: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 10:36 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Glue: Metal to Plastic? >Friends, > >Just received a Branford Diner through parcel post and found the chimney >bouncing around loose. What glue would you recommend to reattach it? > >Thanks in advance, > >Bill Trefts > >BTW: I may not have any Hawaiian shirts, but I do have some that >practically glow in the dark! Hi, David. > >________________________________________________________________ >GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! >Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! >Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: >http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > --------------------------------------------------------------- NetZero Platinum Only $9.95 per month! Sign up in September to win one of 30 Hawaiian Vacations for 2! http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14878	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 9/27/2001
Subject: Junk

But, it has to work out of the box or it is junk. Robert E. Yablonski Robert, I have seen projects of senior housing built in our historic neighborhood at a cost of 15 million dollars. The roof has some small keaks in it. Let me say this. The project isn't junk. It seems these days, and I am a perfectionist also,(you should see the Tin ceiling I installed in my 1885 home), Almost everything needs to be tinkered with to be Perfect. Chris,Love my sawmill, Burger [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14879	From: Tom Young	Date: 9/27/2001
Subject: Sawmill Boards

Rick, I used paint stirrers, the kind they give you went you buy paint, work perfectly. Easy to cut with a utility knife and they're the same thickness and weight as the original boards. You'll want to find stirrers without any advertising print on them. A couple will give you more boards than you need and they're free most of the time. Just for the record, my new sawmill worked perfectly right out of the box and hasn't missed a board yet, at any voltage. Tom........

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14880	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 9/27/2001
Subject: Branford Chimney

>>>Bill Trefts writes: Subject: Glue: Metal to Plastic? Just received a Branford Diner through parcel post and found the chimney bouncing around loose. What glue would you recommend to reattach it? >>> Bill, if I'm not mistaken, the Branford Diner chimney is made of lead. You should be able to insert the shouldered portion through the chimney hole in the roof of the diner and swage it. That's what I did when I restored mine. Hope this helps. YourS, John Eichmann RMHR Boise

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14881	From: Rick Evans	Date: 9/27/2001
Subject: Re: Junk

--- In S-Trains@y..., cbtrainnut@a... wrote: **((Robert, I have seen projects of senior housing built in our historic neighborhood at a cost of 15 million dollars. The roof has some small keaks (LEAKS??) in it. Let me say this. The project isn't junk.))** Well, maybe the "project" wasn't "junk",...But I wouldn't hire THOSE roofers again!! All in all,..I think a lot of stuff is "junk" now days,...seems nobody wants to stand behind their product,..oh, unless you are willing to buy an extended warranty for a few $$ more!! Buy a new TV or whatever,...90 day warranty?? Give me a break! Sometime the parts aren't much,...but the labor to put in that two dollar part! Jeez,...maybe I'm gettin' old, but it seems with the high prices of everything these days,.. should better quality control or better warranties!! You can buy a $20 garden hose with a lifetime guarantee, but a $500 TV set comes with a 90 day warranty!! Well, gotta bump somethin' outta the way on my small layout to make room for the new sawmill! need to get my AF barrel loader workin' now! Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14882	From: riechert@pop.phnx.qwest.net	Date: 9/27/2001
Subject: Re: AF/Lionel Sawmill

Sat down with my sawmill yesterday to figure out why it slows down while dumping the boards. In watching the operation from underneath I figured out the slow down occurs when the mechanism to eject a new board starts activating. The additional mechanical load is causing the slow down and probably can't be further adjusted. I also played with the location of the crimp-on on the string which effectively sets the length of the string. Lengthening it slightly removed the tendency of the string to pull so hard that it was raising the end of the boom due to the string tension. Lengthening any more prevented the cab from reaching the end of the boom and dumping the boards. Interestingly there is a white mark on the string that I initially thought might be the desired location of the crimp-on but that made the string too long. Full voltage makes it run waaaay to fast. Half throttle or less (using a small AF tansformer) looks much more realistic, I think. Anyway, my son and I think it's great. He's already talking about getting more boards and in different colors to simulate different wood types. Jerry -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ .

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14883	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/27/2001
Subject: David Dewey--Facts!

HI all, I'm BAAACk! Hmm, OK, YES I did wear that shirt, NO I did not have on shorts (I only wear them in Hawaii, and only been there ONCE--but it might have made an interesting outfit!) "mountain climbing" Hmm, I think that Steve's car did most of the climbing, we mostly just walked around. Steve and John gave us the Royal Treatment while we were in Boise, as soon as the pics are loaded in, I will post some for the group. Have to get back to life here, but wanted to say THANK YOU to both Steve and John for a really great time. If it weren't for Steve taking two days off to show us around, we wouldn't have seen the real Idaho. Wow! John took off time too, and took us around the interesting RR sites in Boise, including a "behind the scenes" tour of the great Depot there. S' David & Linda D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14884	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 9/27/2001
Subject: Sawmill Tune-up summary

My previous postings are not easy to piece together so I consolidated them into this note. I also attached a Word file of the same. Hope it helps you. LTI 2321 and ACG Sawmill Tune Up: David Horn 9/27/01 1) Attach a 2-1/2" long piece of 3/8"x1-1/4" wooden molding (nominal dimensions, actual after milling are 1/16" less) to the underside of the sawmill floor. Position it diagonally so that the bull-nosed push-tongue travels perpendicular to the molding. The tongue pushes against the vertical lever of the ejection mechanism. The curved face of the molding should face toward the tongue as it approaches the lever and help guide the tongue onto the top surface of the molding. The 1-1/4" width of the molding provides a broad surface to consistently position the tongue as it drives back the vertical lever. Cover the bottom of the molding with double-stick tape. Attach it to the underside of the sawmill, and "strap" it in place with a 1/4" wide strip of aluminized duct tape at each end (this is the shiny metal tape, it follows the profile of the molding really well and sticks like heck). You may want to remove this part some days/years later. GOO-OFF, GOOF-OFF, GOOP-OFF, whatever-OFF that is safe for plastics should clean up any tape residue. I added a molding guide to a new LTI 2321 and a previously used ACG unit and got noticeably better results in both cases. 2) Make your planks or boards of basswood (or harder) in the dimensions of 3/32" thick, 11.5 mm wide (so they just fit through the feed slot on the side of the sawmill), and 73 mm long. Be sure the planks are FLAT, with no bowing or warp. Make sure all angles and edges are square (90 degrees). Polish the broad faces of each board with 2000 grip sandpaper. The walls of the plank-bay of the mill are not perfectly plumb, so in order to load more than 6-7 planks, they may need to be slightly less than 73 mm in some cases. 3) Try running the sawmill at different voltages. It should run OK over a range of voltages (e.g. 7-16v). Experiment 'til you find the one you like. I chose 13v, because I liked how "robust" it sounded/looked, and how reliably it operated. One other thing to look for: On my unit, I removed the ejector plate and found that its "runners" were not fully formed along their entire length (shallow toward the front). Also, the ejector was slightly bowed with a low mid-section (looking at it from the front of the sawmill). I re-indented the "runners", made sure the piece rested flat and level on a smooth surface, and reinstalled it. With these changes I found the ejector wouldn't quite retract all the way because it contacted the stud (at the very end of its retraction the back edge of the ejector drops down lifting the front edge a bit). I shortened the spring a turn and that achieved complete retraction every time. I also tweaked (gently twisted) the push lever beneath the deck until the action of the push-tongue against it generated a consistently straight outward-push and inward-retraction of the ejector. <<AF Sawmill Tune Up.doc>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14885	From: reefman@voicenet.com	Date: 9/27/2001
Subject: Train stores in Charlotte

I will be in Charlotte, NC for business next week, and was wondering if there are any train stores (s-trains in particular)or other train associated places to visit while I'm there, that are recommended. Thanks, Doug K. --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Voicenet WebMail. http://www.voicenet.com/webmail/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14886	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 9/27/2001
Subject: Re: AF/Lionel Sawmill

I ran my sawmill at approx. 1/2 setting of the varuiable output on an AF transformer (12V?-didn't measure) and made sure it ran reasonably well before putting on full voltage. I "tweaked" the shape of the pusher a bit and it might have helped. I don't get jams, though a board occasionally hangs up just a bit on the side of the exit nearest the saw blade. It seemed to have plenty of power on the 1/2 voltage setting. eighthmile@... wrote: > > Colin wrote: > > > >Set the sawmill on the layout, operated it for a few loads of lumber > >and then a board jammed because it did not drop poperly (also went > >un-noticed by me)in place. The can motor is pretty powerful because > >it stripped the gears off the drive gear before I could shut down. > >Anyway, totally inoperable, unrepairable. > > Given the fact that occasional jamming is practically unavoidable > with such an accessory, I can't help but wonder why Lionel didn't > incorporate a slip-clutch of some kind into the drive mechanism to > spare the gears. It would have saved them and their customers a lot > of trouble. Such things are found routinely in cassette tape players > costing as little as $30. > > But, given the configuration of the can motor conversion done to the > Alco/Geep power truck years ago, it's evident that Lionel doesn't > think too hard when they re-engineer AF designs. Neither do they seem > to adequately test the designs, apparently. > > Maybe operating the L/AF sawmill at a reduced voltage will spare the > drive mechanism when the inevitable "logjam" occurs. Has anyone tried > that yet? > > Chuck F. > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14887	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 9/27/2001
Subject: Re: Down at the ol' sawmill....

I made some boards from shim stock that loks like popsicle sticks. Tried them and they work about as well as the ones suplied. However, they're a hair thinner, so after all the comments I've heard about jamming and stripping gears I haven't used them any more. (I figure the thinner boards would be easier to jam.) Rick Evans wrote: > > Finally picked up my sawmill on Tuesday and hooked it up today. It > hasn't made it off the coffee table to the layout though! > > After my bumbling around trying to get it put together right,...it > worked fine....so far!! I did keep a close watch on the boards when > loading,...had a couple go cock-eyed! > > I would imagine someone sells repro boards for the sawmills,..five > sure isn't enough! Probably take forever to get any out of Lionel. > > Has anyone made their own boards?? > > Rick "Sawin' more than Z's now" Evans. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14888	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 9/27/2001
Subject: Worlds Smallest S Layout

I uploaded a still photo for my smallest layout. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/s_helper_flex.JPG

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14889	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 9/27/2001
Subject: Commerical Notice

If anyone is looking for the latest Corgi PCC- New Jersy Transit- they are on the street. Really sharp looking. For pictures, see our web site. Tom Doherty Pennsylvania Heritage Models, Ltd. http://www.paheritagemodels.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14890	From: Robert Werre	Date: 9/27/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Commerical Notice

To all: Just got my advance copy of MR for November--we got a bit of good coverage of the Scranton convention. Additionally E-bay ran a full page listing all the scales except S and N !! guess we are not the only stepchildren! Actually the design of the page would not support every scale--but they left out the best. Bob Werre

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14891	From: John Foley	Date: 9/27/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Commerical Notice

Hi Bob I guess persistence pays off. Now if RMC, Model Railroading and Model Railroad News also keeps their word to me we should see some more articles. We have three of our own S Scalers writing something up for them. Can't wait until I get my copy. John Foley At 05:50 PM 9/27/01 -0500, Robert Werre wrote: >To all: > >Just got my advance copy of MR for November--we got a bit >of good coverage of the Scranton convention. >Additionally E-bay ran a full page listing all the scales except S and N >!! guess we are not the only >stepchildren! Actually the design of the page would not support every >scale--but they left out the best. >Bob Werre > > >To see or post Photos visit >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Scale/files/ >or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/ >To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14892	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 9/27/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Commerical Notice

Hi John, I just got my Model RR news and they do have the NASG Conv. Covered....I don't know if you recieve the Paper but the (Most Months) have athe S-Curves page every issue....When the big debate was going on about being compesated for articles (sp) I forgot about this "Paper" they might compensate....at least they try to have something about "S" each issue....At the end of the piece is an address to submit info to the writer..... scurves@..........Mike S. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14893	From: John Foley	Date: 9/27/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Commerical Notice

Hi Mike Roy Hoffman our NASG president now authors The S Curves column in MRS. He also wrote the convention article. Two Magazines down two to go. I'll have to fine a copy. John At 07:22 PM 9/27/01 -0400, Anormal1@... wrote: >Hi John, > I just got my Model RR news and they do have the NASG > Conv. Covered....I don't know if you recieve the Paper but the (Most > Months) have athe S-Curves page every issue....When the big debate was > going on about being compesated for articles (sp) I forgot about this > "Paper" they might compensate....at least they try to have something > about "S" each issue....At the end of the piece is an address to submit > info to the writer..... > scurves@..........Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14894	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 9/27/2001
Subject: to Steve Footer

Steve Footer: I cannot get through to your email address. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14895	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 9/27/2001
Subject: S-Gauge Videos, Vol.'s 1 and II

Hi everyone, Here's the latest update on the Video projects. I have 2 copies of Vol. 1 left and 2 copies of Vol. 2 left. I am getting inquiries from folks and don't have a good answer for them. I need to buy the tapes by the carton (50) to be economically feasible. So here's the question for all of you. Is there enough remaining support out there to warrant the plunge? I can split the printing of the video's up between volumes as long as I do them 10 at a time. Are there some of you out there that missed out on either volume, or have just been thinking about it? How about friends or club members? This is the only advertising forum that I have, so I need some input. Thanks to all of you....Regards....Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14896	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 9/28/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Commerical Notice

Model Railroad News doesn't compensate for the column, but just the fact that they print it is important for S. It runs every other month and I bug them to let me go monthly with it. It will take some time to get that because space is limited for now. It would be a good time to point out that we like to promote any American Flyer or highrail oriented items as well as scale and SN3, so all anyone has to do is get in touch with me and they get free notice in the column. Hope that helps answer your questions. Roy --- In S-Trains@y..., anormal1@a... wrote: > Hi John, > I just got my Model RR news and they do have the NASG Conv. > Covered....I don't know if you recieve the Paper but the (Most Months) have > athe S-Curves page every issue....When the big debate was going on about > being compesated for articles (sp) I forgot about this "Paper" they might > compensate....at least they try to have something about "S" each issue....At > the end of the piece is an address to submit info to the writer..... > scurves@m... S. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14897	From: dlehnhoff@hotmail.com	Date: 9/28/2001
Subject: Worlds Smallest S Layout

Paul: It's also the worlds ugliest ruler. Dwight

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14898	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 9/28/2001
Subject: PIKEMASTER AD

Hi I have some Pikemaster cars that are in E to E+ cond Befor I list them on E-bay contact me off list if interested Nothing rare or hard to come by by E Cond And will part with them as a group....Mike S. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14899	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 9/28/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, September 30, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14900	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 9/28/2001
Subject: NASG Steamtown Convention

Hi again everyone, If any of you took any video (any format) of layouts on the tour or at the show and would like to see your name in lights, please send it to me for possible inclusion in Volume III. to be released in Mid November. We will just do a Beta window burn of them and send them right back to you. Thanks....Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14901	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 9/28/2001
Subject: ADDITION TO 1/64 VEHECILES

This is another offering (AD) I picked up 2 more cars to make the package a little better heres what I have 1957 Corvette New VW Bug A total of 7 cars & trucks New Audi TT the price $20.00 includes 1955 T-Bird New Ford KA shipping...If you want to HUMVEE add an extra car or truck 1955 Chevy step-side Add $2.50 for each Thank You Ask questions about color [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14902	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 9/28/2001
Subject: ADDITION TO 1/64 VEHECILES

This is another offering (AD) I picked up 2 more cars to make the package a little better heres what I have 1957 Corvette New VW Bug A total of 7 cars & trucks New Audi TT the price $20.00 includes 1955 T-Bird New Ford KA shipping...If you want to HUMVEE add an extra car or truck 1955 Chevy step-side Add $2.50 for each Thank You Ask questions about color [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14903	From: TED R LARSON	Date: 9/29/2001
Subject: FREE mo

> I forgot to send a URL for the Freemo idea. Here 'tis > http://www.free-mo.org/ It seems that some list members perceive Freemo as being "better" than S-MOD? I spent some time looking at this site. There is much good info here, but some comments are needed to help avoid confusion. I see Freemo as an enhancement, IN ADDITION to S-MOD, rather than instead of. Conflicts between the two that I have found are minor, and can be accomodated, such as height of rail from floor (legs can be changed). "Free-mo's emphasis is on scenery and track flexibility. The standards just mandate the ends in which we join our module together, leaving the length and track configuration up to the modeler. ....modules can be inverted 180 degrees and still mate up to the adjacent module with out modification to wiring or track." S-MOD standards are also INTERFACE standards only. The standards cover single track and double track, and permit inverting the module 180 degrees. "Free-mo layouts are operated with a single track mainline in a point to loop, loop to loop, or point to point." The same can be done with S-MOD, such as the setup at the NMRA Pittsburgh convention. S-MOD does not EMPHASIZE single track, however some S-MOD modules are single track. Ted Larson We ask that God Bless America; Let our actions be worthy of those Blessings. ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14904	From: Ross	Date: 9/29/2001
Subject: MTH Gabe

I have misplaced my instruction sheet for the MTH Gabe the Lamplighter. Is there an on-line source for a replacement sheet? Or could some one email or Fax me a copy? Ross Roberts 4623 194th Avenue SE Issaquah WA 98027-9357 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14905	From: Robert E. Yablonski	Date: 9/29/2001
Subject: Sawmill

David, Thank you for all the helpful information. I will use the tips when and if I ever get back my repaired "brand new" sawmill. Too bad Lionel hasn't read you comments. You made my point. L ships junk, and we suffer. Robert E. Yablonski Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 12:10:35 -0400 From: david_horn@... Subject: Sawmill Tune-up summary

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14906	From: TED R LARSON	Date: 9/29/2001
Subject: Here are Steamtown photos shared to you via clarkcolor.com.

Here's some of my photos from Steamtown. Don't remember if I sent this link before. With a little luck, the photos will be on the webpage for a few more days. --------------------------------------- An online photo album has been activated for you. You can access this account, by clicking on the following link: http://www.clarkcolor.com/authenticate.asp?p1=CKB2FYJEU3 This will bypass the login and automatically take you directly to the online photo album. Alternatively, you can visit the Clark website at: http://www.clarkcolor.com/ and login by entering an access code. The access code is: CKB2FYJEU3

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14907	From: TED R LARSON	Date: 9/29/2001
Subject: Modern Tanker

Here's something for the "semi"-modern guys....... http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1642417898 http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1641721319 http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1642122996 http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1642236877 http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1642146209 ALSO, 1955 Chev PU http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1644214993 Has anybody seen this one? Where is it available? Is it really 1/64th? Sometimes things are not really the size that they are advertised. Ted Larson We ask that God Bless America; Let our actions be worthy of those Blessings. ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14908	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 9/29/2001
Subject: Re: Modern Tanker

TED R LARSON wrote: > Here's something for the "semi"-modern guys....... > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1642417898 > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1641721319 > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1642122996 > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1642236877 > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1642146209 > > ALSO, 1955 Chev PU > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1644214993 > Has anybody seen this one? Where is it available? > Is it really 1/64th? Sometimes things are not really the size > that they are advertised. > > Ted Larson > We ask that God Bless America; > Let our actions be worthy of those Blessings. > > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Is there a web access for the Ertl people at Dyersville, Iowa, especially those involved in their product development? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14909	From: Arden Goehring	Date: 9/29/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Modern Tanker

Ted, those 55 Chev PU's are way undersized, close to HO, but not quite. I bought one just to see. Too bad, detail is excellent. AG

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14910	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 9/29/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Modern Tanker

Arden Goehring wrote: >Ted, those 55 Chev PU's are way undersized, close to HO, but not >quite. Very true. The only Kinsmart vehicles I've seen that can pass for 1/64th scale are their '60s VW bug, New Beetle, and maybe the '60s VW van. The New Beetle seems the closest, and the detail gets better with each new production run. Not bad for a $0.99 toy. I'll try to leave a pic or two of a new Beetle in the photo section. Chuck

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14911	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 9/29/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Modern Tanker

And it's done, pix of the Kinsmart New Beetle are in the Photo section. These are available in a variety of colors, and have shown up with at least four different wheel types, always with rubber tires. One of the handy things about these is that they are held together with one screw, so it's easy to disassemble/reassemble them for repainting or "installing" occupants. Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14912	From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT	Date: 9/30/2001
Subject: Paint colors

Clear DayHas anyone ever done a study on matching AF paints?? I just got a really nice Peabody hopper car......but 1b/s....i can duplicate the step very easy with latex and epoxy...but how do I match the paint...Also have quite a few others to do too. I did one repair on a h/w coach that had most of one end broken off...made a latex mold of the opposite end...switched it to the broken end...added epoxy....only a light line shows....now to repaint this car....Bob [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14913	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 9/30/2001
Subject: S-Video, Volumes 1 and 2, and Can Motor updates

Wow, what a great bunch of people hang out here! S-Gaugers are without doubt the "Greatest" of the model train people. In just two days after asking if there was support out there for us to plunge in for another case of 50 tapes, We had orders for 35. So as of tomorrow we are printing 20 more copies of Vol. II and 30 copies of Vol.1. It appears that there were people out there that didn't get # 1 and now want one. We are going to a train Show in Ogden Utah on Oct. 5-7 and will take a few copies of each with us. We will also be taking two Flyer Locos that have the Can Motor conversion kits in them, for folks to see/operate. One of them is set up switchable. It has a DPDT switch mounted in the tender that allows it to be run on either AC or DC. We are also getting closer to completing the can motor for Gilbert Alcos/Geeps. Still think we can do it by Jan. 1, 2002. We are still looking for anyone that attended Steamtown convention and took Video. We would like more than we have, to incorporate into S-Gauge Model Railroading Vol. III or maybe Vol. IV. Thanks again for all your support on both of these projects. For such a small forum we have really had great results. Regards to all....Steve & Sam [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14914	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 9/30/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, September 30, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14915	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 9/30/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, September 30, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14916	From: Jollivier4@cs.com	Date: 9/30/2001
Subject: the trolleys are back

For anyone whs has followed the Yakima Trolley story here in central Washington, they'll be running again for a couple of weeks in Yakima! I'm excited! The trolley on my layout (powered by a handcar chassis) will make a couple of celebration laps. I still have an extra MTH Gabe if anyone didn't get one. Contact me offlist. Jacques

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14917	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 9/30/2001
Subject: Re: Free-Mo

I am totally fascinated by this great idea. It solves some layout building problems I have and will give me movable sections in my basement. I would use it as an adjunct to the permanent area. I was considering modules, but the 2 track main doesn't fit in and the ridgid shapes don't conform to my needs. By using Free-Mo, I may be able to approach my through station and other features off the main layout with much more flexibility. It also makes changes and total revamps easier. The additional plus is being able to set up with others in a community layout by bringing sections to meets. Of course, this assumes that anyone else in "S" is going to start building Free-Mo modules. The track placement standards will not be compatible with NASG mods. Chris Z.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14918	From: Tom Rolfsmeyer	Date: 9/30/2001
Subject: [Fwd: Sunday Chat]

Dick Kuepper wrote: > Hi Tom I have tried for three weeks now to log on to Chat, and Yahoo > won't let me. Please convey my regrets to the group, but Yahoo is not > worth the aggravation. Have a great chat. dick [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14919	From: af2rail@aol.com	Date: 9/30/2001
Subject: 55 Chevy Pick-ups

In response to the questions about the Kinsmart cars as 1/64 scale, I had experience last year when I bought various kinds. Those 55 chevy trucks trucks by Kinsmart are more HO. The T-birds were OK but still to small. Wouldn't guess at the exact scale but definitely not 1/64. I was stuck with a whole box when they first came out. I don't know about the Volkswagen or any of the later issues.....Don

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14920	From: Ted Larson	Date: 10/1/2001
Subject: Highway Trucks

Here's an interesting post from the Freightcars e-list. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> A couple of days ago there was a question on trucking companies. At a train show today a book dealer had sveral volumes of: The Trucking Pioneers by M K Terebecki. (at least 7 volumes) These are paper back, about 200 pages and sell for about $15.00 ea. Inside it says they are availible from: Pioneer Press 4338 Dover Crossing Dr Marietta, GA 30066 770-591-7300 or American Truck Historical Society PO Box 531168 Birmingham, AL 35259 The one I open had lots of photographs. Howard Pickens, SC ===== Ted Larson __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Listen to your Yahoo! Mail messages from any phone. http://phone.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14921	From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi	Date: 10/1/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] S-Video, Volumes 1 and 2, and Can Motor updates

Hi Steve and Sam: Would be interested in an article (with multidudinous pictures and schematics) on the conversion to can motor for all Gilbert engines INCLUDING the DPDT switch in tender to that we can run on AC or DC (that is if it hasn't been already done, or if your directions do not include it!) Tx in advance Rance Velapoldi boss31@... wrote: > Wow, what a great bunch of people hang out here! S-Gaugers are without doubt > the "Greatest" of the model train people. In just two days after asking if > there was support out there for us to plunge in for another case of 50 tapes, > We had orders for 35. So as of tomorrow we are printing 20 more copies of > Vol. II and 30 copies of Vol.1. It appears that there were people out there > that didn't get # 1 and now want one. > > We are going to a train Show in Ogden Utah on Oct. 5-7 and will take a few > copies of each with us. We will also be taking two Flyer Locos that have the > Can Motor conversion kits in them, for folks to see/operate. One of them is > set up switchable. It has a DPDT switch mounted in the tender that allows it > to be run on either AC or DC. We are also getting closer to completing the > can motor for Gilbert Alcos/Geeps. Still think we can do it by Jan. 1, 2002. > > We are still looking for anyone that attended Steamtown convention and > took Video. We would like more than we have, to incorporate into S-Gauge > Model Railroading Vol. III or maybe Vol. IV. > > Thanks again for all your support on both of these projects. For such a > small forum we have really had great results. > > Regards to all....Steve & Sam > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > To see or post Photos visit > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Scale/files/ > or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/ > To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14922	From: Mark Preman	Date: 10/1/2001
Subject: American Flyer Trains For Sale

The new list for October is posted at: http://www.americanflyertrains.com I also have a list(revised) of SHS, AM, etc for sale but not on the website. If you are interested, send me an e-mail and I will attach the list to the reply. Mark ===== Mark B. Preman AmericanFlyerTrains.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Listen to your Yahoo! Mail messages from any phone. http://phone.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14923	From: rwjw3@aol.com	Date: 10/1/2001
Subject: Re: 312 vers. 312 AC

Easy question Guys and Dolls: What's the difference between the two? I have multiples of each version and outside of the manufacturing date, I have no idea what the difference is. Same goes for the 302. A visitor to Paul's site (Thanks Paul for having my Layout on it) asked the question to me and I'll be darned if I know what the difference is! Thanks All Bob

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14924	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 10/1/2001
Subject: Re: 312 vers. 312 AC

I heard that AC was used as a suffix only while, or part of the time while, DC versions were being produced. Otherwise they are identical to the ones without the AC suffix. They all should have the year of manufacture stamped inside the boiler, and you should see that ACs were for certain limited years. Anyone remember which years?. rwjw3@... wrote: > > Easy question Guys and Dolls: > > What's the difference between the two? > > I have multiples of each version and outside of the manufacturing date, I > have no idea what the difference is. Same goes for the 302. > > A visitor to Paul's site (Thanks Paul for having my Layout on it) asked the > question to me and I'll be darned if I know what the difference is! > > Thanks All > Bob > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14925	From: lensman@erols.com	Date: 10/1/2001
Subject: AF #322 Loco Reversing Problem

Hello everyone. Got a question for the group. I just picked up a AF #322 unit. The loco runs fine but the reverse unit is going nuts. The slightest twitch on the unit causes it to trip. I can't find a short but... seems like if I change the pressure on the tender wheels anywhere the unit trips. I don't want to lock the unit so as to stop the tripping. I would appreciate any ideas and suggestions? Jerry

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14926	From: Charlie&Edith	Date: 10/1/2001
Subject: AF Sawmill

Was able to set-up the sawmill tonight and enjoyed operating it! Question is about the return trip after ejection and dumping. There is a noticeable slow-down of the motor and cart. This "slow-down" covers about an inch and a half of movement in the log cart return cycle. Past this point the cart moves well. I have lengthened the string and done a bit of "adjusting" on the underside mechanics to try and smooth this out ... with some success. Should I consider this "normal" or has someone found a way to "even out" this part of the cycle? Your thoughts are appreciated! Charlie

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14927	From: Carl Tuveson	Date: 10/1/2001
Subject: Re: AF #322 Loco Reversing Problem

Obviously clean the wheels and axle wiper contact springs and check their tension against the axles. I have found this problem is usually caused by the trucks being twisted and not sitting level on the track. Check for squareness to the tender bottom and track. Carl -----Original Message----- From: lensman@... To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Sent: 10/1/01 10:09 PM Subject: [S-Trains] AF #322 Loco Reversing Problem Hello everyone. Got a question for the group. I just picked up a AF #322 unit. The loco runs fine but the reverse unit is going nuts. The slightest twitch on the unit causes it to trip. I can't find a short but... seems like if I change the pressure on the tender wheels anywhere the unit trips. I don't want to lock the unit so as to stop the tripping. I would appreciate any ideas and suggestions? Jerry S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14928	From: Tom Stolte	Date: 10/1/2001
Subject: New decals from Oddballs Decals - N, HO, S & O scale

656 NFO Grain (11-73) Painted light grey. Intermountain kit. Blue-green lettering. Set will letter one car. 657 KCS PS covered hopper. (6-69) Painted yellow with black ends. Athearn kit. Black lettering. Set will letter 2 cars. 658 MP 60' high cube boxcar. (2-79) Painted boxcar red. Athearn kit. White & black lettering. Set will letter 1 car. 659 ODTX, Oil-Dri Corp. of American. (3-96) Painted med gray. Accurail kit. Blue & black lettering. The N scale sets will letter 2 or 3 cars. S & O scale will letter 1 car. All the above decals refer to HO scale kits on the market. These will also work for other scales. Just pick a car of your choice in the other scales. Prefix numbers for N scale 60-. HO scale 87-. S scale 64-. O scale 48-. N & HO scale retail price $3.25. S & O scale retail price $6.50. These should be in your favorite hobby shop within the next month or so. If ordering direct, please include $1.75 for p&h. Up to date catalog N, HO, S & O scale, $6.00, plus $1.75 for p&h. You buy this catalog once, then every 3 months or so, send me a LSSAE for updates. Fits in a 3 ring binder. --- --- Tom Stolte - Oddballs Decals N, HO, S & O Scale Model Railroad Decals 26550 227th Street; McLouth, Kansas 66054 Phone: 913-727-6649 - oddballdecal@... Web site http://www.oddballsdecals.com/ Subscribe: OddballsDecals-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Missouri Pacific Photos Web Page: http://www.trainweb.org/mopac/ NMRA Member #121756 Subscribe: MOPAC-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14929	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 10/1/2001
Subject: 322 loco reversing problem

Carl's suggestions are very sound. I would like to add mention of two conditions that might be causing the problem, if Carl's tips don't do the trick. First, their may be a cold solder joint somewhere in the wiring between tender truck rivets and reverse unit coil that causes an intermittent break in the circuit. These can be hard to spot but are common. The way to find them is to wiggle each wire while the power is on. Second, if this is a loco with the smoke unit in the tender (the 322 came both ways), the fiber bushings which insulate the tender truck rivets from the tender floor may have decayed, rotted away by old smoke fluid. If this has happened, the tender will rock from side to side excessively. If you decide to replace the bushings with new ones, use new rivets as well. Unfortunately, repro rivets are not exactly the correct size for this application, and it is usually necessary to add a washer under each rivet head to get a tight enough fit. If a new rivet is too tight and its truck does not swivel freely, stick a screwdriver between truck and floor and twist slightly to loosen it. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14930	From: John Foley	Date: 10/2/2001
Subject: Fwd: HELLO AGAIN

>Delivered-To: foley164@... >From: ErieRailroad@... >Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 15:57:07 EDT >Subject: HELLO AGAIN >To: foley164@... >X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows US sub 10536 > >Hi Folks Below is part of a letter i received from a friend of mine who is interested in starting an S club in his area. If interested please do contact him John Foley >Hi John > >There must be lots of guys interested in S gauge in Bergen, Passaic, and >Sussex counties in New Jersey, as well as Orange and Rockland counties in >New York. The Central Jersey club is still a hike from up here. I can't >believe one never formed in this area. So the answer is yes, pass my idea >around and have them contact me. Lets see what happens. My phone number is >845-778-0145. Have them contact me via email. > >Thanks, >Jack Bartman >95 Bergen Ave. >Walden NY >12586 > email ErieRailroad@... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14931	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 10/2/2001
Subject: Montvale NJ Train Show.

Hi Folks, If anyone would like to meet us or see our products, we will be at the Montvale NJ train show this Sunday. Tom Doherty Pennsylvania Heritage Models, Ltd. http://www.paheritagemodels.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14932	From: David A. Highfield	Date: 10/2/2001
Subject: The big question

Last night, on "Who Wants to be a Millionaire?" a question was asked about A.C. Gilbert, who apparently was also a medal winner in pole-vaulting. The question related to his inventions. The player narrowed to 2 choices: (a) Mark-A-Lot (b) Erector sets. Despite my vigorous prompting and desire to change placed with the contestant (I think it was John Elway), he selected "A," Mark-A-Lot. Game over. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "The Reis's" <finnhill@...> To: <S-trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2001 10:53 PM Subject: [S-Trains] American models GG1 on EBAY > I listed a GG1, Green, AC powered, highrail loco on EBAY yesterday. > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1641498370 > <http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1641498370> > > If you actually read this far and are the high bidder I will pay the first > $10 of shipping. > Just mention the Yahoo S-trains list. > > I am not a regular seller on ebay but have done well on the few things I > have sold. > > Now back to your regular emails. > > Eric > Kenmore, Wa. > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14933	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/2/2001
Subject: 322 loco reversing problem & stuff.

Hi all, Carl & Tom's suggestions are "spot on", I wanted to add, one sometimes hidden problem is that the rivet is loose on the truck. The rivet should turn with the truck, not independently of it. Sometimes a little hidden corrosion under the rivet "tail" causes an intermittent "non-conductivity" which the reverse unit thinks is a signal to trip. Also, I have found that the new insulating washers are made of a plastic that melts a little when you heat the rivet to solder the wires on. I haven't tried this yet, but I suspect that tinning the rivet before installing it may allow one to solder the wire on quicker and avoid much of the melting. HEY SUPPLIERS! If the stepped rivet were made of fiber, like the originals, this wouldn't be an issue! I'm almost "back" from vacation--"new" radiators in both vehicles, maybe our car problems are over for a bit, and now I'll have time for hobbies, etc! If I haven't said enough before (doubt it can be said enough!)--there are a great bunch of people on this list, not the least of which are our Boise bretheren, Steve and John took much time out of their usual days to give Linda and I the royal treatment and showed us stuff we would not have done left to our own devices! I still haven't downloaded the pics, but once I do, I will share them with y'all! S David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14934	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 10/2/2001
Subject: The Russ Mobley Library

I sent Mrs. Russ Mobley a card on behalf of the NASG, in which I told her that the NASG Library was to be named after Russ. She was thrilled to hear that and sent me a very nice letter in response. I don't think she'll mind it if I repeat some of it because it is really meant for all of us. She said: "When I gave him his new train building 1 1/2 years ago, he was just like a little boy on Christmas morning. I'm just so very sorry he didn't get to finish this layout. About one month ago he started talking about getting another building. 24 X 30 to put the layout in. I said, not thinking, "we haven't finished this one yet". This is what he said to me. "The day a man finishes his layout, he doesn't have anything to live for". I know he's working on the biggest train layout of all now. I'm sure he has a lot of friends, the "Old - Timers", as he called them helping him now. Please let all your members know how much Russ cared for each one of them that he knew. Also let them know how much the cards and emails have done for me." Russ not only deserved the honor, but he was at the time, the most recently deceased member. However S has lost many of its stalwarts over recent years. We already honor the memory of Bernie Thomas with the S Gauger of the Year award. Perhaps we can find ways of honoring other past members of note. The danger, of course, would be in having to pass over some deserving members, but to my knowledge no one ever complained about the Bernie Thomas award and selecting Russ Mobley for the name of the NASG Library has met with overwhelming approval. With this in mind, we might consider honoring some of our other "giants" of the past. Mrs. Mobley also enclosed some articles from years ago about Russ and his A&P RR. I forwarded them to Dick Karnes for the library. If you have access to any articles in newspapers or magazines about these S pioneers, please let us know so we can include them (or copies) in the library. Roy

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14935	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 10/2/2001
Subject: BILL TREFTS

Is there a Bill Trefts in this group....I belive there is .....I lost your address to send the Pikemaster Cars to.....Mike S. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14936	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 10/2/2001
Subject: Re: 322 loco reversing problem & stuff.

Just remembered another possibility. Stiff wires from the loco to the tender can do strange things. I had a 293 where someone had used stiff wire to hook up and it was lifting the tender front truck on curves and virtually impossible to run in reverse. David Dewey wrote: > > Hi all, > Carl & Tom's suggestions are "spot on", I wanted to add, one sometimes > hidden problem is that the rivet is loose on the truck. The rivet should > turn with the truck, not independently of it. Sometimes a little hidden > corrosion under the rivet "tail" causes an intermittent "non-conductivity" > which the reverse unit thinks is a signal to trip. > Also, I have found that the new insulating washers are made of a plastic > that melts a little when you heat the rivet to solder the wires on. I > haven't tried this yet, but I suspect that tinning the rivet before > installing it may allow one to solder the wire on quicker and avoid much of > the melting. HEY SUPPLIERS! If the stepped rivet were made of fiber, like > the originals, this wouldn't be an issue! > I'm almost "back" from vacation--"new" radiators in both vehicles, maybe > our car problems are over for a bit, and now I'll have time for hobbies, > etc! > If I haven't said enough before (doubt it can be said enough!)--there > are a great bunch of people on this list, not the least of which are our > Boise bretheren, Steve and John took much time out of their usual days to > give Linda and I the royal treatment and showed us stuff we would not have > done left to our own devices! I still haven't downloaded the pics, but once > I do, I will share them with y'all! > S > David D. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14937	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 10/2/2001
Subject: O. Winston Link / 2002 Price Guide

I added a page of O. Winston Link books to the S-Trains bookstore and a link to the Greenburg 2002 price guide (yes I already know that some list members don't think Greenburg is the best price guide) http://www.gate.net/~yorke/booklist2.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14938	From: joeawood@aol.com	Date: 10/2/2001
Subject: RAILFEST ALTOONA PA.

This is it, This weekend in Altoona PA. October 6th & 7th Alto Model Train Museum Association Fall meet 65 tables so far and more by saturday. On display one of the largest S modular layouts in the East. In conjunction with the Altoona Railroaders Memorial Museum "RAILFEST", Excursion rides On two E-3'S around the Horseshoe Curve, tours of the world fomous Juniata Locomotive Shops, also second TOY TRAIN show at Cresson Pa. HO & O modular Layouts also, Positivly the biggest railroad event on the East Coast this Fall. for more info e mail me Joe Anderson JOEAWOOD@... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14939	From: joeawood@aol.com	Date: 10/2/2001
Subject: Alto Model Train Museum Association Fall meet

Station Mall downtown Altoona PA 17th Street Exit Off I-99 October 6 - 9 am to 6pm October 7th 10 am 4 pm For more Info JOEAWOOD@... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14940	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 10/2/2001
Subject: BILL TREFTS

Anyone know Bill Trefts...I need his address....Mike S. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14941	From: michael prell	Date: 10/3/2001
Subject: Re: The big question

What did you expect? It was ELLLL-WAY! --- "David A. Highfield" <davidh@...> wrote: > Last night, on "Who Wants to be a Millionaire?" a > question was asked about > A.C. Gilbert, who apparently was also a medal winner > in pole-vaulting. The > question related to his inventions. > The player narrowed to 2 choices: (a) Mark-A-Lot (b) > Erector sets. Despite > my vigorous prompting and desire to change placed > with the contestant (I > think it was John Elway), he selected "A," > Mark-A-Lot. Game over. > Dave > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "The Reis's" <finnhill@...> > To: <S-trains@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2001 10:53 PM > Subject: [S-Trains] American models GG1 on EBAY > > > > I listed a GG1, Green, AC powered, highrail loco > on EBAY yesterday. > > > > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1641498370 > > > <http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1641498370> > > > > If you actually read this far and are the high > bidder I will pay the first > > $10 of shipping. > > Just mention the Yahoo S-trains list. > > > > I am not a regular seller on ebay but have done > well on the few things I > > have sold. > > > > Now back to your regular emails. > > > > Eric > > Kenmore, Wa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: > http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories > too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: > http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories > too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > ===== Being angry is the same as holding a hot coal in the palm of your hand. You want to hold on to it in order to throw it at another, but only hurt yourself in doing so. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Listen to your Yahoo! Mail messages from any phone. http://phone.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14942	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 10/3/2001
Subject: "L" SAWMILL REVISITED

Now that the upsetment over the Sawmill has settled let us add this. The North Penn S Gaugers met on Saturday afternoon and opened the new "L" Sawmill with great care and patience. After checking all the parts against all the emails of those that had problems we found no flaws. We connected to power and watched it perform perfectly. We will soon be building a corner module with a lumber camp and sawmill for the public to enjoy. Staying on the NPSG branchline of NASG track, Glenn

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14943	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 10/3/2001
Subject: BILL TREFTS

Thank All of you that have responded with Bill's E-mail address....Mike S. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14944	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 10/3/2001
Subject: BILL TREFS ADDRESS

Thank ALL of YOU that responded to the inquiry for Bill's address even if you didn't have it thank you for you time in looking for it...No chopped liver on this list ...Just another oversight like losing Bill's address to begin with....Mike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14945	From: Milton	Date: 10/3/2001
Subject: Looking for OKLA Members...

HI, Would their be anyone at this group, Living within the sooner state or within the OKC area ?? >> If so would you please get back with me. << 73's...Milton Obuch RE: Ok Railroad Club, Special Club Meeting, Oct. 13th

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14946	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 10/3/2001
Subject: Big International News, Off-Topic

This from my friend, Ted Hoppe. Great report, Ted. Wish I could attend! ___________________________________________________________ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Theodore Hoppe" <atthehops@...> To: "Chris Zizzo" <Busyboy@...> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 12:08 PM Subject: Re: .and so it goes ___________________________________________________________ > First Annual Kabul Air Show Scheduled for Afghanistan > > Kabul: Citizens of this Afghanistan city are reportedly looking forward > with great anticipation as reports filter in of a huge International > Air Show to be held in the skies over their nation. > > An unnamed official informed us that "Now the rest of > the world will look upon our beloved city with great > honor, just as they do Farnborough, England and Paris, > France", referring to the sites of two previous international air shows. > > The exact date and time of the upcoming Kabul > International Air Show has not yet been announced. It > is believed that event organizers feel that such an > announcement would detract from the fun of the > celebration by spoiling the surprise. > "It's going to be just spectacular," enthused one planner. > > Unlike most air shows the Kabul event will feature > almost no static ground displays, but will have an > unusually high number of aerial demonstrations and > fly-bys. "We are most pleased by this feature of our > air show. Instead of many boring > airplanes just sitting around on the tarmac, the > aircraft attending our show will actually be up in the > air demonstrating what they do best!" one Kabul official said proudly. > > Participation will probably be heaviest by high flying aircraft of > the United States Air Force. U.S. Navy fighter squadrons > will join in from carrier bases offshore. Army and Marine Corps > helicopter squadrons will create low > altitude displays to keep the interest level high. Aircraft expected > include appearances by F-15's, F-16's, A-10's, > B-52's and Apache helicopters. It is rumored that the exciting > opening ceremonies will feature a Tomahawk - Cruise > fireworks display. Grucci's, eat your hearts out! > A few B-2's, and F-117A's may also > help out in some unseen capacity. > > Several other countries have expressed an interest in > sending representatives. These include all nineteen > nations in the NATO alliance as well as Australia. The > excitement generated for this gala event has even > prompted the Israeli Air Force to apply for > participation. What a turnout! > > Of course, no one is more excited than the Afghan > people themselves. Great numbers of them are in the > streets of Kabul looking constantly heavenward in > gratitude for the historic event, which will soon take > place in their skies. > > The Talaban government itself had plans to participate > by staging dogfights with the American teams using their aging Mig jets. > Disappointingly, there seems to be a shortage of trained pilots in the > country at the present, so the Migs will have to serve as the static ground interest. > It has been observed that some Kabul residents > are so concerned about missing the spectacle that even as > they bow to the East they keep snatching worried > glances toward the West. Thousands, in fact, have > been seen leaving the city and making their way to the > mountains carrying food and blankets - obviously > anxious to get a good vantage point for the show, > and to make a picnic of it. > Sorry we can't attend, but, hopefully, there will be some good coverage on TV. ______________________________________________________________ This just in: __________________________________________________________________ In a related story, sources in Afghanistan report that Talaban leaders, meeting in secret, have agreed to change the name of the venerated Afghani city of Kabul. The new, and subtly different name will be Kaboom.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14947	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 10/3/2001
Subject: Re: Taliban

On Wed, 3 Oct 2001 17:18:38 -0400 "Russ Foeks" <mytrains@...> writes: As for the heat seekers, disguise them inside of dummy U.S. soldiers parachuting from aircraft of course. As they come down, the Terdban Twats will fire at them. Bingo, we have ignition and the heat seekers will follow the trail of the shooters!! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14948	From: cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 10/3/2001
Subject: new e-mail

To all my ,relatives and 1 friend. And all my train friends. My new e-mail address is cbtrainnut1@... will be untill I can transfer my old screen name to my new Delphi$3.00 a month account. I apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.Thanks, Chris Burger [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14949	From: neil.trump@bt.com	Date: 10/4/2001
Subject: Re: Reply to CZ's Off-Topic posting

CZ, I find it very amusing that when others post something off-topic that doesn't meet with your approval, you become very colourful and tell them where to go and what to do. Yet when it suits you, it is a different matter, a case of double standards I see. As you have reminded others as well as me in the past, can I ask you in your own words now, '..please take this crap elsewhere, as it isn't wanted here, this is a train list, not a war-mongering site. I am sure there are dedicated places for this and you will be most welcome there.' It may not be exactly as you would say it, but it looks about right, though I'm sure you will correct me on how it should be said. I am really looking forward to your biased, animated and colourful reply! I did say to you off-list that I'm looking forward to the next time we meet, didn't think it would be this soon though <g>. Neil T. PS lets keep this an S-trains list please, no more off-topic discussions, thank you.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14950	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 10/4/2001
Subject: Please Stay on Topic

Please keep your S-Trains notes 'on topic'. Thank You ===== Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com Photography - Computers - Trains __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? NEW from Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14951	From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT	Date: 10/4/2001
Subject: WAY OFF TOPIC

ANY ONE NEED A "LIONEL" HOBBY SHOP? WHEN I ORDERED THE SAWMILL, GABE AND COAL LOADER (AF) ALONG WITH A MTH "G" HUDSON AND CHALLENGER IT SOME HOW GOT INCLUDED IN MY LIST...OR THATS WHAT THE MAIL ORDER COMPANY "TOY TRAINS UNLIMITED" SAID....SO MY CC GOT BILLED AN EXTRA 344.96....I WANTED TO RETURN IT BUT WAS INFORMED THERE IS A 25% RESTOCKING CHARGE...IF ANYONE CAN USE THIER MISTAKE I WILL PAY THE SHIPPING..BOB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14952	From: Don Thompson	Date: 10/4/2001
Subject: Re: WAY OFF TOPIC

Dear Robert, You might be able to contact your credit card company about the mistake to return the merchandise for a full refund. This may be assuming the mistake was not yours. Any decent credit card company will help you our here and give you a credit for returned merchandise you did not order. Don ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT wrote: > ANY ONE NEED A "LIONEL" HOBBY SHOP? > WHEN I ORDERED THE > SAWMILL, GABE AND COAL LOADER (AF) ALONG WITH A MTH "G" HUDSON AND > CHALLENGER IT SOME HOW GOT INCLUDED IN MY LIST...OR THATS WHAT THE MAIL > ORDER COMPANY "TOY TRAINS UNLIMITED" SAID....SO MY CC GOT BILLED AN EXTRA > 344.96....I WANTED TO RETURN IT BUT WAS INFORMED THERE IS A 25% RESTOCKING > CHARGE...IF ANYONE CAN USE THIER MISTAKE I WILL PAY THE SHIPPING..BOB > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 F-3s and Double Sheathed boxcars are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/emdf3s_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14953	From: Michael Christensen	Date: 10/4/2001
Subject: Circus Train freight cars

I have recently won a Worlds Greatest Show flat car with two Ringling Bros vans on Ebay. These cars can be converted to Link trucks also and will look great on your circus train. My question is, has anyone made any other reproductions of the American Flyer Circus flat cars? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? NEW from Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14954	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 10/4/2001
Subject: Re: Circus Train freight cars

I think I recall seeing some yellow circus flat bodies sold at York the last couple of years. I think they were also for sale from the same lady at the Valencia ballroom before the fairground show. I don't have her name but maybe someone else on the list remembers her or who sponsored the Valencia event. I think it's largely one club. She sells a lot of parts at reasonable prices. Michael Christensen wrote: > > I have recently won a Worlds Greatest Show flat car > with two Ringling Bros vans on Ebay. These cars can be > converted to Link trucks also and will look great on > your circus train. My question is, has anyone made any > other reproductions of the American Flyer Circus flat cars? > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > NEW from Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. > http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14955	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 10/5/2001
Subject: Re: Circus Train freight cars

Several companies make unpainted knuckle coupler flat cars and yellow flat cars. Check with scenery unlimited or Fred (610-494-4578) Jester (least expensive). Fred also has repro cages. You may visit my model railroad by going to: http://www.geocities.com/glenn_ritter/index.html then go to: "My Model Railroad". Staying on the NPSG branchline of NASG track, Glenn NASG Secretary http://www.jesusiscoming.com ><///> ><///> ><///> ><///> ><///> Michael Christensen wrote: I have recently won a Worlds Greatest Show flat car with two Ringling Bros vans on Ebay. These cars can be converted to Link trucks also and will look great on your circus train. My question is, has anyone made any other reproductions of the American Flyer Circus flat cars?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14956	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 10/5/2001
Subject: Circus Car Trains

On Thu, 4 Oct 2001 19:07:23 -0700 (PDT), Michael Christensen <semaphoresam@...> wrote: <Subject: Circus Train freight cars < <I have recently won a Worlds Greatest Show flat car <with two Ringling Bros vans on Ebay. These cars can be <converted to Link trucks also and will look great on <your circus train. My question is, has anyone made any <other reproductions of the American Flyer Circus flat <cars? Just about all of the parts for this car, except for the wrapper, are readily available. This product is produced by Violin Stillmank. The flatcar and all parts are made in Bulgaria and the flatcar has been selling for about $2 at York. The vans are preproduction rejects; carefully examine the oversized tires as well as the poor finish on the vans. These were supposed to be destroyed, but somehow some got smuggled out of the country by the manufacturer's ex-wife. A better van with the appropriate tires is now available through myself or Doug Peck. The wrapper appears to be faded, but I have never seen it before. The trucks, van holder brackets, and billboards are also readily availabe reproduction parts. As to your question, I will be offering a limited edition series of 5 circus trains cars, with a release of a new car every six months at York. The first will be available later this month and is similar to the one you purchased, except that it has two red vans with a full color Worlds Greatest Circus wrapper (matching the quality of the original Gilbert wrapper)and the correct tires, a yellow #24574 Worlds Greatest Circus flatcar (every car in my series will be numbered), and comes with either original link coupler trucks (to match the original AF Circus Set) or reproduction knuckle coupler trucks. Cost for this car is $49.95 plus S&H. A picture of this car will be posted to the S-Trains picture site later this evening. Joe ===== Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,300 part lines American Models ## S-Helper Service ## Gilbert Rerpoductions Featuring Parts by Toy Trains International joestrainrepair@... Master Card/Visa __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? NEW from Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14957	From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT	Date: 10/5/2001
Subject: Way off topic

Clear DayIs it me or are prices really falling. I also have some MTH stuff and a small layout....I just got the y6b for 431.00...n & w hoppers for 108.00 per set...I have gotten some very good deals lately in other areas of collecting like airplane kits...Things i would have paid more for last year, now i get for half.....Has anyone noticed any low prices for any "s" new stuff and where it can be found? Bob [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14958	From: Gerhard Stegemann	Date: 10/5/2001
Subject: K325 early, riveted knuckle coupler

On the K325 that had riveted on knuckle coupler, was the truck on the tender a link type.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14959	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 10/5/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, October 7, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14960	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 10/5/2001
Subject: New file uploaded to S-Trains

Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the S-Trains group. File : /Donation LT.doc Uploaded by : mao83053@... Description : Donation Letter - Please Read You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/Donation%20LT.doc To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, mao83053@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14961	From: lapasafe@worldnet.att.net	Date: 10/5/2001
Subject: American S Gauge, Code 172, Nickle Silver Track

Went by Classic Trains. Saw the new Sectional Track samples. Test shots of the 2 1/2",and 10" straight - 19", 27" curve. They are Excellent, and ready for production. The Flex Track is available now. They are working on the 27" radius, #3 switch, should be ready soon. I'm using the flex track, And run A/C and D/C. Look at the Track at http://trainweb.com/crocom/strack.html Reggie C.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14962	From: Don Thompson	Date: 10/6/2001
Subject: Re: More SHS Blantant Commercialism

Today's Topic - New 40' Steel Rebuilt boxcars, 3rd Run wooden "Billboard" reefers and our New Wooden Reefer 3 car sets - Somewhere steaming towards Long Beach, CA is a container ship with our latest shipment (plus Special cars for RSSVP Models, Port Lines, The Baltimore Area S Gaugers and the AF Boys Club). We expect these the end of this month (Maybe in time for York, but no guarantees!). Our PRR and GN rebuilt boxcars have sold very well and two more new schemes are being offered. The PRR X26c rebuilt boxcar will be the earlier Merchandise Service scheme featuring an aluminum stripe and the ball Keystone in red. The Great Northern offering will be the Omaha orange and Pullman green Express Car. The price of each car is $39.95 and can be viewed at: http://www.showcaseline.com/rebuiltboxcars_in_stock.html In all scales, wooden Billboard reefers seem to be the most popular freight cars. With thousands of stunning prototype paint schemes possible not to mention these are the most colorful series of cars that operated during the steam era (actually, 90% of these paint schemes ONLY operated during the steam era). So, it was natural that these would be a sought after product in "S" too! We have asked our builder to make 5 new paint schemes for our third run These include two numbers of Northern Pacific, two number of Canadian National (our first Canadian wooden reefers), Kraft (our first cheese car), Edelweiss (continuing the tradition of beer cars, this will be our 4th) and SFRD "the Scout" (our third Santa Fe "slogan map reefer"). These can be seen at: http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html I guess two criticisms that we have heard about our wooden reefers is that we do not produce adequate quantities of the more popular roadnames and that we do not offer enough numbers to make a prototype string or block of reefers. The roadnames that we have selected for our three car reefer sets have several things in common. They are schemes that were seen from the 50, 60's and some of these in the 70's. They are all "railroad owned" instead of privately owned. We sold out of NWX (green and yellow), PFE (orange, single herald) and BREX in about two weeks after we received the container. We have selected these roadnames plus one new roadname to introduce our three car wooden reefer sets. The new roadname is Fruit Growers Express. I will admit that we have had reservations about this roadname. Although a very important refrigerator company with lots of cars and a very impressive history, I am not sure of the popularity of paint scheme that is not very complicated. FGE was started in 1920 by the Southern, PRR, B&O, ACL and five other partner railroads. It exchanged cars with the Western Fruit Growers Express (GN) and BREX (CB&Q). By the 1970, over 60 partner railroad were part of the FGE system. Like our three car freight sets, the cost of these is lower than purchasing single cars and they are offered at $109.95 per set (a 17% savings). We are only making 100 or each set. You can check them out at: http://www.showcaseline.com/3carrwoodeneefersets_in_stock.html At this time, we would like to thank Bob Werre for his spectacular photos of our stuff and Jon Marinello for the great job he is doing designing and maintaining our web pages -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 F-3s and Double Sheathed boxcars are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/emdf3s_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14963	From: Robert E. Yablonski	Date: 10/6/2001
Subject: 12B Transformer

Group, I have a very nice 12B transformer. It is missing a Black handle. I am looking for either an origional or a repro. Anyone know where? I tried Ron Leventron, no luck. I received my "repaired sawmill" today. Am going to start it up later this afternoon. Wish me luck. Robert E. Yablonski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14964	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 10/6/2001
Subject: Picture of First JTR Circus Car

The first of a series of at least five limited production add-on cars for the Gilbert American Flyer S gauge Circus Train will be released at York later this month, with an additional car added each sixth months at York. These cars are exclusive to Joe's Train Repair, and each will come in a numbered box. This first car is a Worlds Greatest Circus Flatcar with Vans. The red flatcar is numbered 24584 and has a built date of 98. This is not the general release reproduction World Greatest Circus flatcar. It contains two red vans each with a high quality Worlds Greatest Circus self-adhesive wrapper applied. These are the production (not preproduction) quality vans with the correct wheelsets. Each car is available with either original American Flyer link coupler trucks (24584LC) or reproduction S gauge knuckle coupler trucks (24584KC). Cost is $49.95 plus S&H. To view this car, go to the S-Trains clubs site at: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains and select the album: JTR Circus Train Cars and choose: 24584 WGS Circus Flat w/Vans You must be a member to enter the site, but membership is free. All you have to do is register. Joe ===== Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,300 part lines American Models ## S-Helper Service ## Gilbert Rerpoductions Featuring Parts by Toy Trains International joestrainrepair@... Master Card/Visa __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? NEW from Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14965	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 10/6/2001
Subject: Re: Picture of First JTR Circus Car

Joe, Went looking for your cars, however, once again Yahoo refuses admittance, even tho I have been a member going back to e-groups and possibly before. AS USUAL, there is NO WAY to contact Yahoo. Is there any other server we can use???? I am sure I am not the only one having this problem. Jim Lyle [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14966	From: lapasafe@worldnet.att.net	Date: 10/6/2001
Subject: American S Gauge - correction

Please look at track at, http://trainweb.com/crocon/strack.html. Reggie C.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14967	From: lapasafe@worldnet.att.net	Date: 10/6/2001
Subject: American S Gauge Correction

Look at http://trainweb.com/crocon/strack.html Reggie C.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14968	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 10/6/2001
Subject: Re: Picture of First JTR Circus Car

Um, Joe... Would it be possible for you to upload the Pix to the regular S- Trains files or photo sections, rather than the club section? It would be easier for some. Many thanx. Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14969	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 10/7/2001
Subject: Circus Car

Joe's (of Joe's Train Repair) Circus Car can be seen at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/photos/circus_car1.jpg Thank you Joe. ===== Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com Photography - Computers - Trains __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? NEW from Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14970	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 10/7/2001
Subject: Mike Kolosseus

Anybody got a e-mail or phone number for Mike Kolosseus? If not do you know which part of the country he lives in? I found two in Yahoo people search , one in Washington State and one in Texas. I would like to bring some of his creations to the web.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14971	From: Wayne and Alice Beachy	Date: 10/7/2001
Subject: Benefit Show Update

Hi All, I have updated the web page with new information on our benefit train show on Saturday November 17. Check out http://sgauge.homestead.com/acsgindex.html and click on the show button. New information includes the raffle, maps, times, admission donation etc. One of our members has gotten a block of rooms at a near-by Days Inn for a special show price. Hope some of you can make it. Wayne Beachy Atlantic Coast S Gaugers Virginia Central Division [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14972	From: sigma@ecn.ab.ca	Date: 10/7/2001
Subject: (no subject)

Will Jeff Nelson please re-contact JP regarding AM passenger cars. email: sigma@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14973	From: Michael Christensen	Date: 10/7/2001
Subject: Re: Picture of First JTR Circus Car

What a great looking car! Very different from the Worlds Greatest Show I car I recently won on Ebay. The vans on that car are labled Ringling Bros. Barnum and Bailey " The Greatest Show on Earth". Joe's cars will be a great addition to my circus train. Hmmmm....I wonder how many cars my 353 can manage up the grade on my layout? --- Joseph Haenn <joestrainrepair@...> wrote: > The first of a series of at least five limited > production add-on cars for the Gilbert American > Flyer > S gauge Circus Train will be released at York later > this month, with an additional car added each sixth > months at York. These cars are exclusive to Joe's > Train Repair, and each will come in a numbered box. > > This first car is a Worlds Greatest Circus Flatcar > with Vans. The red flatcar is numbered 24584 and > has > a built date of 98. This is not the general release > reproduction World Greatest Circus flatcar. It > contains two red vans each with a high quality > Worlds > Greatest Circus self-adhesive wrapper applied. > These > are the production (not preproduction) quality vans > with the correct wheelsets. Each car is available > with either original American Flyer link coupler > trucks (24584LC) or reproduction S gauge knuckle > coupler trucks (24584KC). Cost is $49.95 plus S&H. > > To view this car, go to the S-Trains clubs site at: > http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains > and select the album: > JTR Circus Train Cars > and choose: > 24584 WGS Circus Flat w/Vans > You must be a member to enter the site, but > membership > is free. All you have to do is register. > > Joe > > > ===== > Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: > 919/471-2613*9 > 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC > 27572-9338 > Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer > Parts Dealer > Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,300 part > lines > American Models ## S-Helper Service ## Gilbert > Rerpoductions > Featuring Parts by Toy Trains International > joestrainrepair@... Master > Card/Visa > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > NEW from Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site > hosting, just $8.95/month. > http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 > > S-Trains list sponsor: > http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories > too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? NEW from Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14974	From: Michael Christensen	Date: 10/7/2001
Subject: Re: Picture of First JTR Circus Car

What a great looking car! Very different from the Worlds Greatest Show I car I recently won on Ebay. The vans on that car are labled Ringling Bros. Barnum and Bailey " The Greatest Show on Earth". Joe's cars will be a great addition to my circus train. Hmmmm....I wonder how many cars my 353 can manage up the grade on my layout? --- Joseph Haenn <joestrainrepair@...> wrote: > The first of a series of at least five limited > production add-on cars for the Gilbert American > Flyer > S gauge Circus Train will be released at York later > this month, with an additional car added each sixth > months at York. These cars are exclusive to Joe's > Train Repair, and each will come in a numbered box. > > This first car is a Worlds Greatest Circus Flatcar > with Vans. The red flatcar is numbered 24584 and > has > a built date of 98. This is not the general release > reproduction World Greatest Circus flatcar. It > contains two red vans each with a high quality > Worlds > Greatest Circus self-adhesive wrapper applied. > These > are the production (not preproduction) quality vans > with the correct wheelsets. Each car is available > with either original American Flyer link coupler > trucks (24584LC) or reproduction S gauge knuckle > coupler trucks (24584KC). Cost is $49.95 plus S&H. > > To view this car, go to the S-Trains clubs site at: > http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains > and select the album: > JTR Circus Train Cars > and choose: > 24584 WGS Circus Flat w/Vans > You must be a member to enter the site, but > membership > is free. All you have to do is register. > > Joe > > > ===== > Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: > 919/471-2613*9 > 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC > 27572-9338 > Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer > Parts Dealer > Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,300 part > lines > American Models ## S-Helper Service ## Gilbert > Rerpoductions > Featuring Parts by Toy Trains International > joestrainrepair@... Master > Card/Visa > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > NEW from Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site > hosting, just $8.95/month. > http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 > > S-Trains list sponsor: > http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories > too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? NEW from Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14975	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 10/7/2001
Subject: Reefer Madness (Was: Re: More SHS Blantant Commercialism)

Don Thompson wrote: "two number of Canadian National (our first Canadian wooden reefers)," ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- :-) What were the Pacific Great Eastern reefers, chopped liver???? :-) Seriously, I'm glad to see the reefers selling well, and SHS manages to hit my "hot" button with each successive run. I hope that some day the "Grand Union" reefer will be added to the fleet. Dark green car, large yellow lettering, tuscan roof. It's one of my favorites,.. don't know why,.. it just is. Be seeing you... Rich G. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14976	From: John Foley	Date: 10/7/2001
Subject: Train Time

Hi Folks Please go to http://www.cardinalvp.com/traintime/times.html and follow the directions in the third paragraph. If it works for you click on program 41 if it is listed, and you will see Don Thompson taking about S-helper Service. Its in about the middle of the show. For some reason my latest version [ 7.0 ] of Mirosofts media player will not work. Thanks John Foley

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14977	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 10/7/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, October 7, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14978	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 10/7/2001
Subject: (no subject)

Due to popular demand and the courtesy of Paul Yorke, the first of a new series of cars for the American Flyer Circus Train set is now available for viewing at: http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/photos/circus_car1.jpg Thank you for all of the interest. Joe ===== Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,300 part lines American Models ## S-Helper Service ## Gilbert Rerpoductions Featuring Parts by Toy Trains International joestrainrepair@... Master Card/Visa __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? NEW from Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14979	From: Scott Holm	Date: 10/7/2001
Subject: Re: Picture of First JTR Circus Car

Could the problem be that you aren't a member of the club? Yahoo groups and Yahoo clubs are two completely different things. The S trains club is not the s-trains group, and vice versa. --- WJJIM@... wrote: > Joe, > Went looking for your cars, however, once again Yahoo refuses > admittance, > even tho I have been a member going back to e-groups and possibly > before. AS > USUAL, > there is NO WAY to contact Yahoo. Is there any other server we can > use???? > I am sure I am not the only one having this problem. > Jim Lyle > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? NEW from Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14980	From: lensman@erols.com	Date: 10/7/2001
Subject: AF 371 Diesel Correct Wiring

Hello all! First let me say thanks to everyone who gave guidance about my AF 322 loco. The culprit was indeed the trucks shorting out on the tender due to were of the isolation washers. Up and running now. My next question is regarding the correct wiring for a AF 371 Diesel Loco. Particularly the hook up for the reverse unit. I found a loco at a garage sale. Unfortunately the wiring has been badly butchered and had all the wiring loosely connected. Can anyone give me assistance as to correct wiring for this unit? Jerry

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14981	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 10/7/2001
Subject: 370 & 371

Does anyone know if a shell off an LTI #48009 GM GP-7 Fit an org 370 or 371 Gilbert frame????....Mike S. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14982	From: Hannon	Date: 10/8/2001
Subject: Anyone else have this problem?

Every week, I save this announcement (I print it out and leave it on top of the CPU case), as a reminder to get on the computer and join in on the chat. And every weekend, once the dust settles from the weekend's activity, I finally get to sit down between 10 and 11:30 on Sunday evening and realize "Yes! I missed it again!" Anyone else have this problem? Bob Hannon > Message: 5 > Date: 6 Oct 2001 00:02:06 -0000 > From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat > > We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. > > Sunday Chat > > Date: Sunday, October 7, 2001 > Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14983	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 10/8/2001
Subject: Black Label Beer reefer

Will any of you be selling the RSSVP Black Label Billboard Reefer at York? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14984	From: Eugene Steffan	Date: 10/8/2001
Subject: Re: Anyone else have this problem?

ALWAYS! Gene Hannon wrote: > Every week, I save this announcement (I print it out and leave > it on top of the CPU case), as a reminder to get on the > computer and join in on the chat. And every weekend, > once the dust settles from the weekend's activity, I > finally get to sit down between 10 and 11:30 on Sunday > evening and realize "Yes! I missed it again!" > > Anyone else have this problem? > > Bob Hannon > > > Message: 5 > > Date: 6 Oct 2001 00:02:06 -0000 > > From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat > > > > We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. > > > > Sunday Chat > > > > Date: Sunday, October 7, 2001 > > Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14985	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/8/2001
Subject: Sunday Chat problem

Well, if you'd go on to the chat room, you might find us still there. I know three of us held out till 9PM PDT, which I think Tom J. mentioned was midnite in NY. S David D. PS Yeah, it's hard for me to get there at 5 pacific time, but easier once we're back on standard time and winter is here (then it's dark outside by then!)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14986	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 10/8/2001
Subject: Re: Anyone else have this problem?

Gee, too bad Bob. Last night we were talking about you! :-) CZ __________________________________________________________________ "once the dust settles from the weekend's activity, I finally get to sit down between 10 and 11:30 on Sunday evening and realize 'Yes! I missed it again!'"

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14987	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 10/8/2001
Subject: Michael T. Kolosseus

Thanks for the info, I sent Mike an email, I will keep you posted. ===== Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com Photography - Computers - Trains __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? NEW from Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14988	From: Bob	Date: 10/8/2001
Subject: 650-950 Series Passenger Cars..........

Dear Group , I have a American Flyer question about the #650 Series passenger cars. The one I have is the #652 Pikes Peak. It's the red version. I noticed that the #900 series have cars called : Grand Canyon, Niagara Falls,Pikes Peak. My question is did Gilbert make the #600 series with all the same names as the #900 series or just that one car ??? Please post any and all answers.Thank you...........Bob

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14989	From: Don Thompson	Date: 10/8/2001
Subject: Re: 36" Meat reefers

Dear Thomas, From our pamphlet that is included with each reefer, "...Responding to complaints, in 1933, the ICC ruled that lesse names could be no taller than 12" and that shippers would not be able to interchange reefers that had not been correct by July 1938. Cars owned by the company whose "Billboard" advertisements they carried were still leagal and did not have to be changed." That is why meat reefers. like Swift were able to continue the tradition of "Billboard" reefers. Yes, I would love to make a 36" meat reefer, but I would need all new tooling except for the brake gear (new roof, body and centersill, the most costly part of the tooling). Some meat companies did use 40' wooden cars, NWX Oscar Meyers cars come to mind. I think if I could convince Mike to spend the money on new tooling for a 36" car, I would do it with truss rods. Don Thomas Baker wrote: > Was it not true that actual billboard schemes--advertising a specific > product on a reefer otherwise in general service--was illegal after 1930? > Colorful cars on a layout add interest, but accuracy is important, too, > isn't it? > > As for colorful schemes, the Swift & Co culd legally use a "billboard" > scheme because the cars, as I understand it, were in captive > service--i.e., leased to Swift. People of my vintage--sixty and > above--probably never saw a true billboard car anywhere on a railroad. > We would have started noticing trains at the earliest in the Forties, and > by that time billboard cars had been scrapped or painted over for lease > to any road. > > To the folks as SHS: Have you guys thought of doing a 37-foot or 36-foot > variant of the wooden reefer for the various meat companies? Knowing > nothing of costs for mold-alteration, I ask the question in all > innocence? The meat companies leasing cars for exclusive use on their > lines had a variety of interesting paint schemes, usually with cars > shorter than the 40-foot types you currently produce. I mean even > Dougdale Packing Company in St. Joseph, Missouri, a small outfit had at > least a few refrigerator cars in service, and that was in the Fifties. > There was a Jewish Kosher outfit in St. Paul, Morris Rifkin & Sons, that > leased from, I think, URTX. The scheme was nothing flashy but could add > interest to an operation. Rath Packing was in Waterloo, Iowa, and had > some interesting schemes. The Midwest was a haven for small packers, > many of which leased refrigerator cars. > > Tom -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 F-3s and Double Sheathed boxcars are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/emdf3s_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14990	From: Doug Peck	Date: 10/8/2001
Subject: Re: Circus flatcars

Regarding those circus flatcars on ebay....be aware that the vans being used on them are reportedly "rejects" from the first run of this new item. Although I am not the manufacturer, I was sent the first samples to inspect. They were then rejected and improved before the second run. The trailers used on our own Bakers Chocolate flatcar (see our website) are NOT the rejects! I just don't want anyone thinking I'm connected with these circus items, or that my trailers are of similar quality (or lack thereof). Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14991	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 10/8/2001
Subject: Repro 643's

Are link coupler reproduction 643 circus flat cars with repro loads (cages and tractor) available? Thanks. -------------------------- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld (www.BlackBerry.net) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14992	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 10/9/2001
Subject: Repro Vans

I want to echo what Doug Peck said about the repro vans and circus car on eBay. These vans are rejects, which were supposed to have been destroyed. But somehow some of them made it out of Bulgaria, probably illegally. The vans that I carry (both the black repro vans and my exclusive red circus vans) are the correct vans--not the rejects. The rejects only came in black. Vans in white or red plastic are NOT rejects. My Circus Flat w/Vans uses the red vans. Joe ===== Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,300 part lines American Models ## S-Helper Service ## Gilbert Rerpoductions Featuring Parts by Toy Trains International joestrainrepair@... Master Card/Visa __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? NEW from Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14993	From: Hannon	Date: 10/9/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1168

Chris: :-( or :-) ? Bob > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 14:16:36 -0400 > From: Chris Zizzo <busyboy@...> > Subject: Re: Anyone else have this problem? > > Gee, too bad Bob. > Last night we were talking about you! :-) > > CZ

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14994	From: Milton Obuch	Date: 10/9/2001
Subject: Re: You Have Been Invited...(Resend)

The OK Railroad Club, this Saturday [10-13] will have an special meeting at: 8 Pm. At the McDonalds [NW23 & Broadway] ... You have been invited to be our guest, at this special meeting, for we are setting up the club, and we need any railfan,train-spotter, railroad people or any model railroading people to atten this special meet. Help us pack the place full,the group will meet in the North East corner, Look for "turn here' signs to guide you. If your coming from out of town, take I-35 to I-235 and take the NW 23rd street exit, or the Santa Fe exit on I-235 McDonalds is at this exit. Hope to see you their, Yours Truly, Milton Obuch, Chairman: OK Railroad Club. okrailroadclub@... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14995	From: Walt Danylak	Date: 10/9/2001
Subject: Re: 650-950 Series Passenger Cars..........

--- In S-Trains@y..., "Bob" <YAZFACTS@W...> wrote: Dear Group , I have a American Flyer question about the #650 Series passenger cars. The one I have is the #652 Pikes Peak. It's the red version. I noticed that the #900 series have cars called : Grand Canyon, Niagara Falls,Pikes Peak. My question is did Gilbert make the #600 series with all the same names as the #900 series or just that one car ??? Please post any and all answers.Thank you...........Bob Bob, Regardless of color or couplers, all 652/952 series cars were named Pikes Peak, all 653/953 series cars were named Niagara Falls and all 654/954 series cars were named Grand Canyon. Having said that, I'm sure someone will claim they have car with a different name, but I'm reasonably sure all factory made cars followed the above numbering and names. Walt

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14996	From: Gary Chidester	Date: 10/9/2001
Subject: Link to Knuckle

I know this has been covered before and I thought I saved the message, but apparently not. Will someone tell me the easiest way to remove a link coupler for installation of the knuckle version? Thanks, gary

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14997	From: IronHorse	Date: 10/9/2001
Subject: Re: Link to Knuckle

You put a small steel pipe under the head of the link pin Tap the other end with a hammer. The pin will fall into the tube. Careful not to hit the car with the hammer. I have the original Pipe supplied by AC Gilbert. I even think I have the envelope. Roger Gary Chidester wrote: > I know this has been covered before and I thought I saved the message, but > apparently not. > > Will someone tell me the easiest way to remove a link coupler for > installation of the knuckle version? > > Thanks, > > gary > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14998	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/9/2001
Subject: Re: 650-950 Series Passenger Cars..........

I will add to Walt's good posting that some early 600 series car had no names, just "PULLMAN" on the top nameboard. S David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 14999	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 10/10/2001
Subject: World's Greatest Hobby Campaign

Check out...http://www.greatesthobby.com/ (I already told them about our S-Trains 'virtual' Club) The World's Greatest Hobby Campaign is a five (5)-year program for promoting the hobby of model railroading to the general public. The program has three basic components: 1.to amplify the grass roots promotional efforts of hobbyists themselves; 2.to conduct a public relations effort coupled with advertising to our targeted group of men between the ages of 45 and 64; and 3.to make it easy for beginners to get started in the hobby. ===== Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com Photography - Computers - Trains __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15000	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 10/10/2001
Subject: Re: World's Greatest Hobby Campaign

The World's Greatest Hobby campaign is not quite as altruistic as it sounds. It was an invention of the Kalmbach Publishing Co. as a response to the fact that the circulation of Model Railroader has slipped from about 220,000 to about 190,000 due to attrition. If you look at the major sponsors, they are big players in the HO world. If we want S to benefit from this, we can't sit back and rely on them to recruit people for S. We will have to toot our own horn and be very aggressive in attracting people to S. Slogans like "You've found the World's Greatest Hobby, now discover the best size!" could help us grab some of the new people to the hobby. We should appreciate Paul for getting involved. I just sent an application form to them so I could get involved with their public speaking program. I sent it just for myself in an unofficial manner (not the NASG) for now, but hopefully, the NASG can get involved as the thing unfolds. Meanwhile, if you have ideas how we can turn this into something good for S, let us know. Roy --- In S-Trains@y..., Paul Yorke <s_trains@y...> wrote: > Check out...http://www.greatesthobby.com/ > (I already told them about our S-Trains 'virtual' > Club) > > The World's Greatest Hobby Campaign is a five (5)-year > program for promoting the hobby of model railroading > to the general public. The program has three basic > components: > > 1.to amplify the grass roots promotional efforts of > hobbyists themselves; > > 2.to conduct a public relations effort coupled with > advertising to our targeted group of men between the > ages of 45 and 64; and > > 3.to make it easy for beginners to get started in the > hobby. >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15001	From: Ted Larson	Date: 10/10/2001
Subject: archives

Here's a some GREAT comments from the freight car e-list. Ted Larson Jim Eager notes ... >Here is a link (I think originally posted by Bob Webber) to the FSA >photographs viewable on the Library of Congress website at: >http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/fsowhome.html I went there and now I have a puzzle for the list to solve. I used the above link and then did a search and came up with a photo titled "C.M.St.P.&P.R.R., a general view of part of Galewood yard, Chicago, Ill." The photo looks down on the tops of boxcars spotted five abreast on five tracks located between two long covered freight house loading platforms. http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?fsaall:9:./temp/~ammem_6WPH:: In the second row of five cars (in this row, the first car to the left is the one displaying a freshly painted steel end), notice the car in the center. What originally caught my eye was how relatively clean this car's roof was when compared to the cars nearby. Then I noticed some other things about the car. That brings me to the puzzle first mentioned - that being, what sort of roof construction was used on this car? Second question is, why can't I see lateral end walks on this car? Is it a function of the answer to the first question. After you are done with the puzzle, feast your eyes on all else there is to see in this photo - sizes - shapes - colors - weathering - do you see a lumber door in the A end of a boxcar that otherwise appears to sport an end made of stacked flat plates with a horizontal seam mid-way up the end? Another view of this freight house scene is at: http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?fsaall:15:./temp/~ammem_poWA:: The caption for this photo is "General view of part of the Galewood yard of the Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul and Pacific Railroad, Chicago, Ill." ============= Finally, wasn't steam glorious? Try the added hi-res jpeg version of this shot. That way you can really get a good look at the tarpaper roof (or is it canvass) of the shed in the foreground - notice the wrinkles! You will also notice that they flipped the slide when scanning the additional versions. Correctly so, too - in the hi-re jpeg version, look at the herald on the side of the hopper car just beyond the end of the shed. http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?fsaall:240:./temp/~ammem_23SN:: Roger Miener ===== Ted Larson __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15002	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 10/10/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1169

In a message dated 10/10/2001 4:52:59 AM Mountain Daylight Time, S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes: > Regardless of color or couplers, all 652/952 series cars were named > Pikes Peak, all 653/953 series cars were named Niagara Falls and all > 654/954 series cars were named Grand Canyon. Having said that, I'm > sure someone will claim they have car with a different name, but I'm > reasonably sure all factory made cars followed the above numbering > and names. > > Walt > > > Oops!, the 652, 653, 654 came lettered with only the word "PULLMAN" on the > top of the sides also. They came that way in both green and red. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15003	From: sigma@ecn.ab.ca	Date: 10/10/2001
Subject: e-mail address

Does anyone have an e-mail address for Jeff Nelsom? Joe Pereira email: sigma@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15004	From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi	Date: 10/10/2001
Subject: NASG

Hi all: I think I remember someone on one of these lists talking about "rolling" NASG track gauges. I ordered track gauges from one of the suppliers, but they were only the flat type. Is there such a thing as "rolling" track gauges? Tx Rance

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15005	From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi	Date: 10/10/2001
Subject: NMRA

Hi again: Noted that NMRA doesn't have any "S" track gauges available (do have Sn3). Is this true or just an oversight? Couldn't find anything about S track gauges under NASG. Tx Rance

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15006	From: Keith B. Thompson - Sun	Date: 10/10/2001
Subject: Rollie Holders (was: Re: [S-Scale] NASG)

Rollie Holders(tm?) I use about six at a time when spiking rail. The slots on mine were a bit tight so i had to turn them out a bit. I don't recall where i got them from, sorry. kbt > > Hi all: > I think I remember someone on one of these lists talking about "rolling" > NASG track gauges. I ordered track gauges from one of the suppliers, > but they were only the flat type. Is there such a thing as "rolling" > track > gauges? > Tx > Rance > > To see or post Photos visit > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Scale/files/ > or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/ > To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15007	From: Ted Larson	Date: 10/10/2001
Subject: Sprues and runners

A while back I commented on the difference between sprues and runners in injection molds. For more info, see: http://www.immnet.com/articlelibrary/archive/getOneArticle.php3?getArtID=1664 The rectangles are the "moldings" (the molded parts); The round branching "tubes" connecting the rectangles are the runners. The slightly cone-shaped "tube" facing down is the sprue. The plastic melt comes into the mold through the sprue, branches out via the runners, and enters the part cavities. ===== Ted Larson __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15008	From: Michael Greene	Date: 10/10/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] NMRA

S track gauges are available from the NASG Clearinghouse. Look under the For Members menu item. While most Clearinghouse items are available for members, track gauges are available for sale to anyone. Michael PS The rolling gauges you asked about in an earlier email are available from another supplier, not the NASG. Although I have some I can;t remember where I got them. At 09:34 PM 10/10/2001 +0200, Rance and Bente Velapoldi wrote: >Hi again: >Noted that NMRA doesn't have any "S" track gauges available (do have >Sn3). Is this true or just an oversight? Couldn't find anything about >S track gauges under NASG. >Tx >Rance > > >To see or post Photos visit >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Scale/files/ >or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/ >To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15009	From: Michael Greene	Date: 10/10/2001
Subject: Re: NASG

I just checked my files. You can find them here: http://www.railway-eng.com/gauges.htm Michael At 09:26 PM 10/10/2001 +0200, Rance and Bente Velapoldi wrote: >Hi all: >I think I remember someone on one of these lists talking about "rolling" >NASG track gauges. I ordered track gauges from one of the suppliers, >but they were only the flat type. Is there such a thing as "rolling" >track >gauges? >Tx >Rance

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15010	From: Lawrence Jackman	Date: 10/10/2001
Subject: Re: [FC] Sprues and runners

You still did not tell about the GATE Larry -----Original Message----- From: The Freightcars List [mailto:freightcars@...]On Behalf Of Ted Larson Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2001 4:01 PM To: Cars Freight; Scale S; Trains S Subject: [FC] Sprues and runners A while back I commented on the difference between sprues and runners in injection molds. For more info, see: http://www.immnet.com/articlelibrary/archive/getOneArticle.php3?getArtID=166 4 The rectangles are the "moldings" (the molded parts); The round branching "tubes" connecting the rectangles are the runners. The slightly cone-shaped "tube" facing down is the sprue. The plastic melt comes into the mold through the sprue, branches out via the runners, and enters the part cavities. ===== Ted Larson __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15011	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 10/10/2001
Subject: Johnny Lightning "Lightning Brigade" WC-54

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/military_on_move.JPG I picked up a pair of Johnny Lightning "Lightning Brigade" WC-54 Military Police wagons. I uploaded the picture to the file section.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15012	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 10/11/2001
Subject: 342- 343 Tender

Anyone out therewitha a 343- 342 tender that has all the steps and ladder The lettering is not inportant The reverse unit in tender would help..Mike S [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15013	From: Lee Johnson	Date: 10/11/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: [S-Trains] NASG

on 10/10/01 1:43 PM, Michael Greene at mgreene@... wrote: > I just checked my files. You can find them here: > > http://www.railway-eng.com/gauges.htm I believe the rolling track gauges made by Railway Engineering are made to NMRA standards, and not NAASG standards. To my knowledge, there is not a rolling track gauge made to NASG standards. Lee

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15014	From: Dennis Conway	Date: 10/11/2001
Subject: Rolling gages ...

Lee Johnson wrote: >> To my knowledge, there is not a rolling track gauge made to NASG standards. Hi Lee and the list, What are the rolling gages that Scenery Unlimited sells? Dennis Conway Los Angeles

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15015	From: Jay	Date: 10/11/2001
Subject: Newbie

Good morning all, I joined the list several weeks ago and have been reading it every day. My wife and I have decided to set up a rail line in the basement and have been looking into S scale as that is what we remember most. A couple of questions - Is there a single best book on S guage which covers the basics of operation and repair? I've been to the library and picked up a stack of old "Model Railroader" and can find nothing relating to S guage. Also we have decided to begin with American Flyer and then look at newer stuff; I guess it's the nostalgia. So, if anyone has any thoughts on the book or any other start-up ideas for first-timers; I am all ears. Jay -- Jay _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15016	From: Carl Tuveson	Date: 10/11/2001
Subject: Re: Newbie

Jay An easy way to find info on s-guage is to do a search on http://www.google.com for "s gauge" or "american flyer" This will find lots of resources to numerous to list here. The there publications that promote s-gauge and tinplate such as "S Guagian", "Classic Toy Trains" plus the NASG's Dispatch. Do you have a feeling for what you are interested in yet? Tinplate, Highrail (tinplate in a scale setting) or scale. Join the NASG. http://trainweb.com/nasg There are many new manufacturers for "S" now than ever before, making products second to none. To name a few , American Models. S-Helper, and even Lionel makes a few products each year. There are Train shows everywhere. Some local hobby shops carry "S" and of course there is E-bay. Do research with the Greenburgs price guide before you make any major purchases of vintage Flyer. I'm sure you will hear from others as well. That is the great thing about this gauge. It is a family. "S" is the best gauge there is... Not an opinion, just a fact. Carl -----Original Message----- From: Jay [mailto:jaay_st@...] Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 7:04 AM To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [S-Trains] Newbie Good morning all, I joined the list several weeks ago and have been reading it every day. My wife and I have decided to set up a rail line in the basement and have been looking into S scale as that is what we remember most. A couple of questions - Is there a single best book on S guage which covers the basics of operation and repair? I've been to the library and picked up a stack of old "Model Railroader" and can find nothing relating to S guage. Also we have decided to begin with American Flyer and then look at newer stuff; I guess it's the nostalgia. So, if anyone has any thoughts on the book or any other start-up ideas for first-timers; I am all ears. Jay -- Jay _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15017	From: Keith B. Thompson - Sun	Date: 10/11/2001
Subject: Rollee Holders (was: Re: Rollie Holders (was: Re: [S-Scale] NASG))

Hi, I dug around last night and found the source for the gauges that i use. The are $5.95 for four round gauges. http://www.railway-eng.com/gauges.htm And its Rollee Holders... -- kbt > > > Rollie Holders(tm?) > > I use about six at a time when spiking rail. > > The slots on mine were a bit tight so i had to > turn them out a bit. I don't recall where i got > them from, sorry. > > kbt > > > > > Hi all: > > I think I remember someone on one of these lists talking about "rolling" > > NASG track gauges. I ordered track gauges from one of the suppliers, > > but they were only the flat type. Is there such a thing as "rolling" > > track > > gauges? > > Tx > > Rance

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15018	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 10/11/2001
Subject: Re: Newbie

I think that you hit on one of the biggest needs we have right now. There have been "getting started" books in the past like Marshall McClintock's book in the 50's and S-Gaugian's book in the 70's, but we need an up to date book or booklet to help new folks like you to get started in S. The NASG is starting up a new library so we are beginning to address issues like this by providing a central place where members can get valuable information they need. Some day we'll have a current book for newcomers. Meantime you can always rely on this list as a source of help as well as Carl's suggestions. Carl was right about S Gaugers. Always ready to help! Roy --- In S-Trains@y..., Jay <jaay_st@y...> wrote: > Good morning all, > I joined the list several weeks ago and have been reading it every > day. My wife and I have decided to set up a rail line in the basement > and have been looking into S scale as that is what we remember most. > A couple of questions - > Is there a single best book on S guage which covers the basics of > operation and repair? I've been to the library and picked up a stack > of old "Model Railroader" and can find nothing relating to S guage. > Also we have decided to begin with American Flyer and then look at > newer stuff; I guess it's the nostalgia. So, if anyone has any > thoughts on the book or any other start-up ideas for first-timers; I > am all ears. > Jay > -- > Jay > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15019	From: Jay	Date: 10/11/2001
Subject: Re: Newbie

Well, never thought i'd get such a response. Thanks to all. Just a bit of background - what got me going is that last year a nephew got a train set for Christmas. My wife got to thinking back to when she was a kid and how jealous she was that only the boys got trains. Well, for Christmas this year I thought i'd try to put together a set from items in the 1954 (birthday year) AF catalog that I got on ebay. Well, got a few cars, orig boxes, some track, the 1954 AF instruction booklet. Still looking for a locomotive/tender. I think it will be a nice gift and from there we will be setting up a line in the cellar. The cars all seem to be nice so far with one exception - bad couplers on a #921 Coal car. That's where a repair guide will come in handy. Also, if I understand it correctly, to keep a line compatible with the AF items I already have, any new items should be Hi-Line? Looking at some of the sites sent me, it seems all(?) the newer track is compatible with AF using the short track adapters? Kieth, the URL for the repair guide is closed. I sent an email to Tom Barker to see if he still has the CD available. If not, does anyone have a copy? Seems I have my work cut out for me. Biggest item left is the loco/tender - looking for a #293 or #316. Trying to keep with items from that 1954 catalog. Thanks again Jay Stevens in Rhode Island -- Jay _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15020	From: Ted Larson	Date: 10/11/2001
Subject: archives

Here's an update from the freight car list. >>>>>>>>>> Hi all, I have discovered that the links provided in my two posts of last evening are no longer valid. I don't know why this is so, but it is. Hence, use the fall-back routine earlier mentioned. Here's the drill ... Go to the website address of http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/fsowhome.html Select "Color photos" At the search window, enter search string *railroad* Change default number of returns from 100 to 300 Click on "SEARCH" You should now be at the list of returns. In the order mentioned, the first email involved items 47, 15 and 117. For the second email, and again in the order mentioned, the items involved were 211, 216, 117, 218, 239 and 240. Roger at Tacoma WA ===== Ted Larson __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15021	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 10/11/2001
Subject: Air chime whistle generator

Help! How do I hook this thing up? Thanks in advance. Keith _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15022	From: jfrodgers@rpb-law.com	Date: 10/11/2001
Subject: Re: Answering Questions

If you are replacing a bad link coupler there is a response recently on this chat page about doing that. If you want to remove a link coupler and replace it with a knuckle coupler, you can find how to do it on the S gauge Q&A page. Also, you can get replacement parts at any number of suppliers (they are listed on the NASG links page) SSS, RL Giardano, Port Lines Hobbies and others. If you can't find the CD there is also a K-Line book out that you can usually find through some of the other sources. Also, I think Kalmbach has a book on AF repair which has some helpful hints in it. Good luck. John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15023	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 10/11/2001
Subject: Re: Newbie

I liked Tom Barker's book on repairing Flyer. Anyone know where to get a copy? Scenery Unlimited? Try this website- http://www.heimburgerhouse.com/scenery.htm or call them. Jay wrote: > > Good morning all, > I joined the list several weeks ago and have been reading it every > day. My wife and I have decided to set up a rail line in the basement > and have been looking into S scale as that is what we remember most. > A couple of questions - > Is there a single best book on S guage which covers the basics of > operation and repair? I've been to the library and picked up a stack > of old "Model Railroader" and can find nothing relating to S guage. > Also we have decided to begin with American Flyer and then look at > newer stuff; I guess it's the nostalgia. So, if anyone has any > thoughts on the book or any other start-up ideas for first-timers; I > am all ears. > Jay > -- > Jay > > _________________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15024	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 10/11/2001
Subject: Re: Newbie

Another great pair of sites are PaulYork's at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ and Craig O'Connel's at http://www.connix.com/~crocon/sscale.ht. Carl Tuveson wrote: > > Jay > > An easy way to find info on s-guage is to do a search on > http://www.google.com for "s gauge" or "american flyer" This will find lots > of resources to numerous to list here. The there publications that promote > s-gauge and tinplate such as "S Guagian", "Classic Toy Trains" plus the > NASG's Dispatch. Do you have a feeling for what you are interested in yet? > Tinplate, Highrail (tinplate in a scale setting) or scale. Join the NASG. > http://trainweb.com/nasg > > There are many new manufacturers for "S" now than ever before, making > products second to none. > To name a few , American Models. S-Helper, and even Lionel makes a few > products each year. There are Train shows everywhere. Some local hobby > shops carry "S" and of course there is E-bay. Do research with the > Greenburgs price guide before you make any major purchases of vintage Flyer. > > I'm sure you will hear from others as well. That is the great thing about > this gauge. It is a family. > > "S" is the best gauge there is... > Not an opinion, just a fact. > > Carl > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jay [mailto:jaay_st@...] > Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 7:04 AM > To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [S-Trains] Newbie > > Good morning all, > I joined the list several weeks ago and have been reading it every > day. My wife and I have decided to set up a rail line in the basement > and have been looking into S scale as that is what we remember most. > A couple of questions - > Is there a single best book on S guage which covers the basics of > operation and repair? I've been to the library and picked up a stack > of old "Model Railroader" and can find nothing relating to S guage. Also we > have decided to begin with American Flyer and then look at > newer stuff; I guess it's the nostalgia. So, if anyone has any > thoughts on the book or any other start-up ideas for first-timers; I > am all ears. > Jay > -- > Jay > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15025	From: Lee Johnson	Date: 10/11/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Rolling gages ...

on 10/11/01 12:27 AM, Dennis Conway at dlconway@... wrote: > What are the rolling gages that Scenery Unlimited sells? According to the Scenery Unlimited catalog, they are made by Simpson, and are manufactured to the NMRA standards. Lee

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15026	From: Dennis Conway	Date: 10/11/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Rolling gages ... (2)

>> According to the Scenery Unlimited catalog, they are made by Simpson, and are manufactured to the NMRA standards. >> Lee Thanks very for clearing that up for me (us), Lee. You just saved a lot of us a little money. <g> Dennis

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15027	From: David	Date: 10/11/2001
Subject: Re: Air chime whistle generator

Keith, as a rule of thumb always remember that when hooking up American Flyer, black is always Base Post, and Yellow is always Fixed Voltage. With that in mind, hook those two wires accordingly. Hook red to Variable Post, and hook Green directly to track clip. Run a seperate black lead to the track clip from Base Post.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15028	From: Hannon	Date: 10/11/2001
Subject: Re: S-Gauge Reference Manual Updates Available

To Everyone Who Purchased This Reference Manual: IF YOU PURCHASED THIS MANUAL AND YOU DIDN'T RECEIVE A COPY OF THIS E-MAIL OFF-LIST, THEN WE EITHER DON'T HAVE YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS OR WE HAVE THE WRONG ADDRESS. PLEASE LET US KNOW, OK? Updates to the A.C. Gilbert S-Gauge Reference Manual are available at: http://www.trainrefs.com Click on the A.C. Gilbert manual cover on the Home page; then, Click on the "Updates" button on the tracks to the left; then, Click on one of the "Title"s in the table. These updates include new data on the following item(s): The #26672 Electric Track Trip (including instruction sheets); courtesy of Mike Newcomer, Sr. Problems? Drop us a line at support@.... Thanks, Bob & Patrick Hannon

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15029	From: M.McConnell	Date: 10/11/2001
Subject: SJSG sponsered Train Show

This Sunday (October 14th), the South Jersey S Gaugers will hold their Bi-annual train show for the benefit of Belmawr Fire & Rescue #1. The show will be held in the fire hall just North of the corner of Browning Rd and Rt 168 (Blackhorse Pike). The show is only a 15 minute ride from Cherry Hill, NJ and center-city Philadelphia. The show will run from 9:00am to 2:00pm and has a nice representation of S gauge vendors (imagine that!) as well as those dealing in other gauges and railroad-oriented products. If you're in the area, stop in and say hello. Our club's modular layout will be on display and we hope to run some of the latest products from SHS and American Models. As usual, Fred Jester AF Parts will attend, and I understand we will also enjoy the company of John Foley. Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15030	From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi	Date: 10/12/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Rolling gages ... (2)

Hi all: I think I am missing something. I seem to remember that the NASG standards for S gauge are not the same as the NMRA standards - wasn't that a thread for discussion about 6 months ago? Anyhow, are you saying that I shouldn't buy the NMRA standards-made gauges? What about the rollee holders made by railway engineering (or similiar named company)? Tx Rance Dennis Conway wrote: > >> According to the Scenery Unlimited catalog, they are made by Simpson, and > are manufactured to the NMRA standards. > > >> Lee > > Thanks very for clearing that up for me (us), Lee. > You just saved a lot of us a little money. <g> > > Dennis

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15031	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 10/12/2001
Subject: Tom Barker's Book

Tom is offering his book in a CD version. The CD also includes an 11 minute repair video and a length of #40 Nichrome wire to repair smoke units. The CD sells for about $20. see http://www.synergisticquality.com/AFRepairManual.html Contact tom at tbbeqa@... or via http://www.rit.edu/%7Etbbeqa/GAF.html ===== Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com Photography - Computers - Trains __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15032	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 10/12/2001
Subject: Newbie

S-gauge is a whole lot of fun. Glad to hear you're getting started. The purchase of good reference materials is worth every dime. I have several and find myself going back to them time and time again. If you'd like I can provide you more details, but this is the best I can do from memory away from home. - Thomas Barker, Handbook to American Flyer Train Repairs and Maintenance (soft bound, AF SF PA on the front cover) - Greenberg volumes I, II, and III on AF Rolling Stock and Engines, Accessories, and Sets respectively. - K-line Complete Guide to American Flyer Repair (black hard bound book). - complete set of exploded parts diagrams - - RF Giardinia, good complement to the K-line book. Handy to have in a binder at the work bench. - Almost Complete Guide to American Flyer Sets by Bob Tufts. - A.C. Gilbert S-Gauge Reference Manual by Bob Hannon. - TM's 1946-200 AF Illustrated Price Guide and History. - Guide to Operating AF Trains - - green softcopy, don't remember the author's name. - subscribe to S-Gaugian. (CTT is mostly O, but if you want pics and stories about many of the real trains that ACG mfr'd for us in S then get Classic Trains, its great.) - go to shows (you can find copies of books both still in publication and no longer). - talk with fellow train nuts. - shop eBay - - buy, sell, learn about AF from pics and descriptions. - join NASG. - join TCA. - participate in S-Trains list. - run your trains! Dave PS I have some AF HO, and AF O books which are fun to read as well even though I focus primarily on AF-S. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15033	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 10/12/2001
Subject: Re: Newbie - Book suggestions

In a message dated 10/12/01 9:16:43 AM, david_horn@... writes: David has made a number of fine suggestions. << Greenberg volumes I, II, and III on AF Rolling Stock and Engines, Accessories, and Sets respectively. >> The last (and only) editions of Vols 2 and 3 are, regrettably, long out of print. Of the two, Vol. 3 is the one really worth springing for on the used book market. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15034	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 10/12/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, October 14, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15035	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 10/12/2001
Subject: 342 343 TENDERS

Does anyone have a 342 or 343 tender that they would like to part with for$$$ ...Mike S. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15036	From: gunrjoe@aol.com	Date: 10/12/2001
Subject: Newbie

You can go to your library and they can borrow bboks from other libraries. Just have them look up AC Gilbert and American Flyer. I just checked out 5 such books from different libraries including one from a university. They all have inter-loan agreements. Be carefull this is a disease. I started four or five years ago to rebuild what I had as a kid. I am going well beyond that. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15037	From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT	Date: 10/12/2001
Subject: ho and g hopper

Clear DayLooking thru the af bid lists....Noticed a Western Maryland hopper...Is the picture distorted or is it me....It looks like it is an "HO" hopper car with "G" guage knuckle couplers? The old flyer never looked this way....do other cars by the same outfit look like this too? Bob [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15038	From: Doug Peck	Date: 10/12/2001
Subject: Re: Barker repair manual

<<I liked Tom Barker's book on repairing Flyer. Anyone know where to get a copy?>> Tom's book is now long out-of-print. However, he has acquired the rights to it from Kalmbach, and is now making it available on CD-ROM (including a video repair-movie clip). He is NOT producing it in hard-copy at this time. We are stocking his CD-ROM version, at $20, +$3.50 shipping. VISA -MC-DISCOVER-AMEX-PAYPAL Accepted. Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15039	From: James Tanley	Date: 10/13/2001
Subject: Yorkers

Can anyone who has access to York Yellow pages post the phone numbers of some car rental agencies? Thanks, Jim

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15040	From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT	Date: 10/13/2001
Subject: Re: Yorkers

IF YOU ARE FLYING IN...ITS BEST TO GO TO SOMEWHERE LIKE BWI NEAR WASH...AIRFARE AND RATES FOR CARS ARE A LOT LOWER....WORTH THE SHORT DRIVE....BOB ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Tanley" <tanley.1@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2001 8:04 AM Subject: [S-Trains] Yorkers > Can anyone who has access to York Yellow pages post the phone numbers of > some car rental agencies? > > Thanks, > > Jim > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15041	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 10/13/2001
Subject: CORP #'S

Anyone have any idea what the Engine #'s are for the Central Ore & Pacific RR Also need the #'s off therir Bulkhead lumber cars If they have any....Thanks......Mike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15042	From: lensman@erols.com	Date: 10/13/2001
Subject: AF repair recommendations

Hello all, Well I have reached the end of the line with my AF 371 Loco. It appears to be very sick and well beyond my area of expertise. I think the coil needs to be redone or replaced. Besides that the reverse unit sticks terribly and it likes to jump the track at AF 722 switches. Anyhow, I was wondering if anyone could recommend a repair facility the does good work in a reasonable amount of time and naturally is cost friendly. I live Maryland but will ship the chassis to wherever is best. I would really like to get this unit on the track again soon. Jerry

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15043	From: Milton Obuch	Date: 10/13/2001
Subject: Out & Around IN OKC Tonight >>

HI, To all of you out their...Well this evening we tryed to hold that Special Meeting over at the McDonalds to setup the OKlahoma Railroad Club (& Railway Society)...No one took the time to atten the meeting this evening,for I was their for several hours just incase someone showed up to atten this special meeting...Can't say why no-one came, For I had several tell me that they would be their and they would be attening the meeting...For we got the word out, and it was covered in the Daily Oklahoman, as well as other areas. >> So we're going to reset the date and time for two weeks from now, but we're going to change the time of the meeting (& maybe the place also ?)...So tonight since I didn't do any train-spotting, I would like to ask a few Questions, to the groups that this message has been send to. ~~ I'de like to hear back from any-one, so here's the Questions: 1: What would be the best-time of day to have an meeting, would early [11 Am to 1 Pm] be good or would later that day be better [5 Pm to 7 Pm] ?? 2:What days would be the best for someone wanting to atten an meeting, Would the weekdays be good OR Would Saturday be better ?? 3:For them that live within the OKC area, What would be the best-time and date for an meeting ?? 4:For them that live in the state of Oklahome, What would work for you ?? 5:As far as meeting at McDonalds, Would their be an better place ?? For I live real-close to whats knowen as "Classen Blvd & NW36th Street", and the McDonalds is down at NW23 & Broadway Ave. (about 3 miles down the road) 6:Would any-one have any ideas (tips/hints) on how we could get people to atten an meeting, what would make them want to atten ? (Food,Free Gift, Etc...) Well this is all for this evening...">> I will be out & around the OKC area, after Church on Sunday, so if anyone is out & around the OKC area ... Come down to the very S End of Nowers Yard, and let's " Shoot-The-Bull " for I'll be their from: Noon to 4 Pm. <<" PS: If anyone would like to join the OK Railroad Club, Let me know...RSVP ?? 73's...Milton Obuch [N5ULP] Webmaster,Founder,CEO,List-Owner. Membership allways open, Trains of the OKC area & OK Railway Group NEW AT YAHOO GROUPS: Oklahoma Railroad Club, New Link: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Okrailroadclub EMAIL: okrailroadclub@... >> Please visit our web-sites, heres an updated listing << Links: Web: http://hometown.aol.com/okrailroadclub/myhomepage/club.html Web: http://hometown.aol.com/youwereborn4vcc/index.html Web: http://hometown.aol.com/trainsofokc/index.html Web: http://hometown.aol.com/trainsofokc/ElReno.html >> Please visit our other groups sites, and the links are: (**) Group: http://groups.aol.com/okrailway Group: http://groups.aol.com/railroadclub Our Yahoo Group:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Trains_Of_The_OKC_Area >> Love Donuts,Try our poll on "Krispy-Kreme-Donuts", Vote at this link: << http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Trains_Of_The_OKC_Area/polls NOTE: (**): You don't have to be an member of AOL, to join or use this group It has open-membership and anyone can post messages, or use the chat area at the group site >> To Learn More About OK Railroad Club << >> Please Visit Our Web-Site For More Info: << Web: http://hometown.aol.com/mao83053/SMPage.html >> To See Whats Listed On Our Group-Club Yahoo Calendar, Click Link: << http://calendar.yahoo.com/mao83053 . . . . . . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15044	From: Don Thompson	Date: 10/14/2001
Subject: Re: Decals

We have been getting inquiries regarding sources of decals for our unlettered items or also Pacific Rail Shops and American Models products. Once source of S scale decals is Des Plaines Hobbies. They have sets for steam era (PRR, NYV, LV etc.) , right up to today (BNSF, Montana Rail Link, etc. ). You can see their links at; http://www.desplaineshobbies.com/s_decals.html You can give Ron or Susan a call at 1-800-264-1956 to order these of any of their S Scale products. Don -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 F-3s and Double Sheathed boxcars are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/emdf3s_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15045	From: Dan Brindell	Date: 10/14/2001
Subject: Power to the track

When using American Flyer track, does anyone have any comments on the best way to attach the power leads from the transformer to the track? I have been using the old original clip-ons with the spring terminals. They work OK but not great. Do you solder the wires directly to the track? To the side or to the bottom of the track? Does it help to run a second power feed to the far side of the layout? Thanks in advance for any advice or suggestions. Dan Brindell

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15046	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/14/2001
Subject: Re: Power to the track

Dan, For permanent trackwork; yes, soldering leads to the underside or outside of the rails works--if you're really good, you can solder to the inside rails, but you have to be careful to not foul the wheel flanges. IMPORTANT! do NOT use acid core solder, or flux, as you will invariably start a rust action that may take time to show up, but WILL show up eventually! Rosin core will work, given patience. A second connection farther away does help too. Do think out where you are putting your power leads, especially when using the "two train operation" feature of the AF switches. You can use this to advantage, limiting power to sections of track with the switches, but if you put the power leads in the wrong places, you will disable that feature. (I know this sounds obvious, but I've made the mistake, even after years of playing with this stuff!-since I use track terminals the correction was simple, but DUH!). Have fun! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15047	From: carl@wsbt.com	Date: 10/14/2001
Subject: Speeding up the MTH Coal loader.

The stock MTH coal loader is painfully slow moving the bucket up and down. By changing the stock tiny brass pulley with a larger one the speed of the bucket is now about 12 seconds from pickup to drop with 10-12 volts at the terminals. This reduces the strain on the motor and sounds much better too. I have posted a html document with pictures here on the Yahoo group's files section at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/MTH%20Coal%20loader/ If this link does not work go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/ And look for the "MTH Coal loader" folder and open the file "MTHCoalLoader.htm" Carl

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15048	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 10/14/2001
Subject: Just an Okie . . .

Milton: I like your survey about Krispy-Kreme Donuts. Just the name got my attention. However, I don't know that I would attend a meeting just because my favorite donut could be found there. Krispy-Kreme sure does have their act together, don't they? Their newest store opened near me and there is nothing better than hot off the presses glazed donuts. They're great! They're the best there is. Their flavor is superior to Dunkin' Donuts. Well, I hope you have better attendance at your next meeting. The donuts could make the difference! Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15049	From: Bob	Date: 10/14/2001
Subject: Sliding Shoe Pick-up...........

Dear Group, I have an A.F.#293 steamer which runs just great.I partically like the idea of the sliding pick -up shoe on the tender as well as the brass wheels.I hardly ever have loss of power unlike my Atlantics (which I love also).My question to the group is has anyone ever put a list together that tells us which A.F. steamer has this great feature ?? Thanks as usually.Please post any and all answers.I hope to see some of my S-Group at York.I'm going on Friday. "S"incerely.......Bob S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15050	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 10/14/2001
Subject: Reminder - Sunday Chat

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. Sunday Chat Date: Sunday, October 14, 2001 Time: 8:00PM - 9:30PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Weekly Yahoo Chat at S-Trains Club Page http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15051	From: Wayne Broadhead	Date: 10/14/2001
Subject: Re: Speeding up the MTH Coal loader.

Thank YOU Carl! Boy do we all need this fix for the MTH Coal Loader. I have been hoping someone would come up with it. Thanks alot. My grandson gave up playing with the accessory long ago because of its painfully slow operation. Wayne Broadhead carl@... wrote: > > The stock MTH coal loader is painfully slow moving the bucket up and > down. > > By changing the stock tiny brass pulley with a larger one the speed > of the bucket is now about 12 seconds from pickup to drop with 10-12 > volts at the terminals. This reduces the strain on the motor and > sounds much better too. > > I have posted a html document with pictures here on the Yahoo group's > files section at: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/MTH%20Coal%20loader/ > > If this link does not work go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/ > > And look for the "MTH Coal loader" folder and open the file > "MTHCoalLoader.htm" > > Carl > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15052	From: Milton Obuch	Date: 10/14/2001
Subject: Looking For OKLA & OKC Members

HI, I'm sending this out to several groups, and I am looking for anyone that may live within Oklahoma and the general area of Oklahoma City. ~ I'm trying to form an new club, that will be knowen as the OK Railroad Club, DBA:Oklahoma Railroad Club and Railway Society. If you've been wanting to help form an totaly new railroad club, or have wanted to find an place to run your train(s) at, or you just love to watch trains. I would like to hear from anyone, so would you send me your Name & Email address, and later next month we'll find an super good place to meet at and we'll have another go at forming an new club, we'll let everyone that sends me their INFO where and when the next meeting it at... Yours Truly, Milton Obuch, CEO-Chairman: OK Railroad Club [405-528-5646] okrailroadclub@...;wiz83053@... http://hometown.aol.com/okrailroadclub/myhomepage/club.html [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15053	From: Walt Danylak	Date: 10/15/2001
Subject: Fwd: Brass For Sale

--- In S-Scale@y..., "Walt Danylak" <waltdanylak@c...> wrote: Good Morning Group, One of our club members has some S scale brass items for sale. He is not on line, so please contact him by phone or mail if you're interested. The items are: Sunset Big Boy, Overland SD40-2, GP38-2 & Ditcher and River Raisin Burro Crane. There is also a 6th piece which he thinks is a River Raisin GE 44-Ton switcher. Contact: Charlie Brown 99 Lynnhaven Drive North Syracuse, NY 13212 Daytime: 315-458-6753 Evenings: 315-452-0349 Charlie is planning to take these item to the TCA Show in York, PA this weekend. He is leaving Thursday (October 18) morning. Walt --- End forwarded message ---

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15054	From: Hannon	Date: 10/15/2001
Subject: First timer on Sunday Chat

For those who missed it, here's a running log of my first visit to the Sunday chat line: 8:03 (20:03:15:012): Yes! I made it! Quick! Log onto YahooGroups and click the chat button. 8:04 (20:04:02:100) Oops. Have to download the YahooGroups chat module. No Sweat! 8:06 (20:06:39:666) Blue screen of death. Reboot. 8:10 (20:10:19:911) System still recovering Drive D: 8:15 (20:15:19:000) System done recovering from crash. 8:16 (20:16:35:001) Start dial-up module. 8:18 (20:18:44:751) Start browser and get back into YahooGroups Chat. 8:20 (20:20:46:68) I'm in! 8:33 (20:33:59:128) Hello? 8:49 (20:49:22:337) Hello? 9:03 (21:03:77:576) Hello? <<duplicate transmissions deleted>> 9:10: (21:10:55:332) (Kids yell "Dad! You're missing 'Band of Brothers' "). <<go watch 'Band of Brothers' with one ear tuned to >> <<computer speaker>> 10:24 (22:24:11:111) (Screen filled with a bunch of "Hello"s from some guy named Hannon.). 10:29 (22:29:39:954) (Get kicked off computer so my son (double check homework assignment (due Monday morning). ------------------------------------------------------------- Well, that was really great! I'll have to do this again next Sunday night ... that is ... if I survive York! Suffering from a bad case of "rewinder's humor", I am, Sincerely Yours, Bob Hannon

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15055	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 10/15/2001
Subject: S-Trains CLUB chat

If anyone would like to join our weekly chat, go to http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains and click on chat. It is a good idea to visit the room prior to Sunday night. That way you can get all the latest files needed by your browser. If you need help let me know and we can offer more details. We had a pretty good crowd last night, and yes we did more than say 'Hello'. We have lots of fun, except when they gang up on me... but it's all 'in fun'. Anyway, visit the 'Club', join if it asks, be ready for a good time on Sunday. Bookmark it.(or add it to favorites) PS: The 'Club' is seperate from 'the list', it's a long story. ===== Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com Photography - Computers - Trains __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15056	From: Ted Larson	Date: 10/15/2001
Subject: Hardware Photos

See http://www.trainweb.org/nwrp/main2.htm scroll down to the bottom, there are several excellent links for freight car hardware photos. Also note that to find fallen flags, click on a current railroad to find its predecessor photos. ===== Ted Larson __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15057	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 10/15/2001
Subject: S-Video project countdown

Hi Everyone, A while back I asked if there was enough interest out there for me to run another 50 copies of "S-Gauge Model Railroading" volumes 1 and/or II. I received 35 almost immediate responses and therefore printed another 20 copies of Vol. 1 and 30 copies of Vol. II. Volume 1 is again "sold out," and there are 5 copies of Vol. II left. If anyone that hasn't already asked for one wants one they better hurry. We are editing Volume III right now and it will be ready before Thanksgiving. It will contain footing of the NASG convention of 2001 at Steamtown, a 22 by 24 ft. layout under construction from bare walls to DCC operational, (I will follow this in future volumes to completion including the turntable), Jess Bennett's "Great Northern Pacific" revisited with Ernie Horr and sans conventioneers, and more. Thanks for the continued support....Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15058	From: milayman@aol.com	Date: 10/15/2001
Subject: Track wiring

Soldering wires to the track is good. We elected to solder both power and return wires to the side of the rail on the outside for ease of inspection in 1973. We did. We used a uniform soldering method. To maintain uniform power, we wired to several locations in track blocks from a common supply. We took time to do a good job of soldering. It is now 2001 and we have used the track every week. Every day at times. We have had one problem with this method. One wire broke loose. We have been very satisfied with electrical flow from the transformer to the track. The track is sectionalized. There are nine blocks. With properly set switches, there usually are five consists available to parade. That is a good recommendation. Marvin

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15059	From: G-WOLFGANG5@JUNO.COM	Date: 10/15/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1174

Hi Guys I'm looking to trade a S-Helper AM heavyweight NYC coach ( that I got from Ernie Horr) w/box for a B&O or PRR coach. I added weight to the car and it rolls fine (no lites). Contact me off list pls. --Tom Hillery

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15060	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 10/15/2001
Subject: PSL Train Show

http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/photos/show.html here are some photos from our local (45 min drive)Train Show. Can you tell these guys are having more fun than the kids. Also check out the worlds 'second smallest' layout. ===== Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com Photography - Computers - Trains __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15061	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 10/15/2001
Subject: More Flex Track Adventures

http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/track_compare/trackage.html Just made a page of photos comparing the new American S Gauge from Classic Trains with the S-Flex track from S-Helper. ===== Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com Photography - Computers - Trains __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15062	From: Alex	Date: 10/16/2001
Subject: Re: More Flex Track Adventures

Great info! Thank you Paul. -- Alex in Kennebunk, Maine -----Original Message----- From: Paul Yorke [mailto:s_trains@...] Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 9:00 PM To: s-trains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [S-Trains] More Flex Track Adventures http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/track_compare/trackage.html Just made a page of photos comparing the new American S Gauge from Classic Trains with the S-Flex track from S-Helper. ===== Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com Photography - Computers - Trains __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15063	From: Euell Johnson	Date: 10/16/2001
Subject: Layout

I have quite a bit of old AF stuff, track, cars, two locomotives, a GP and a desiel, switchs crosses and two transformers. We started with a set for Christmas after the was and as part of a Christmas tradition, added to it each year. Assume for the moment that you were going to set up a new layout. Should I use the original AF track? If not, what? In order to maximize the fun, what is your advice on a layout? I am a retired manufacturing type, not a RR man. bigfoot [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15064	From: Ted Larson	Date: 10/16/2001
Subject: ballast

> Looking for suggestions for best looking ballast to use for hand-laid > track. A good combination of price and cost is to use bird grit from your local farm supply store, or buy parakeet grit at the pet store. In either case, you may need to do a bit of work to get it looking good, but it is vastly less expensive than hobby shop ballast. Parakeet grit sometimes has a yellow hue to it. Give it a wash of dilute india ink. Bird grit sometimes has particles that are oversize. Strain it using a kitchen strainer. Prototype ballast in my area is mostly 2-3 inch diameter, with a few pieces down to 1 inch or up to 4 inch diameter. Therefore, most of your ballast should be 2/64" to 3/64". I use the pieces that are too large as fill, then put the proper size particles on top. Cement it to the trackbed using dilute glue or artists matte medium with a few drops of liquid dish soap as a wetting agent. Matte medium is more expensive, but is reputed to bestow less sounding board effect to the roadbed. I guess which one to use depends on your pocketbook and how much clickety-clack you want to hear. I'm cc'ing this to the s-scale and s-train lists for the benefit of newcomers on these lists. ===== Ted Larson __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15065	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 10/16/2001
Subject: Re: Layout

Which Track??? well, you could start by looking at the cost. also include cost of switches, a/f are pretty cheap and reliable. did you plan on using roadbed? how flexile do you want to be, will you be changing it from time to time? (most folks are not happy with first try) are you planning on putting this on a big sheet of plywood? any elevated track? I think I would (for a first flyer layout) build a solid table out of plywood, 2x4s and 1x4s and use that as a learning space. start with the flyer track you have, and play with some ideas. If you decide to go in a different direction, you can recycle the table, and you are just playing with existing track. You can get bits of other track, for testing. I think it will all attach to flyer, more or less. As for me... If i had it to do all over, I would make a contoured, layout with the new flex track. It looks much better than flyer. but that is a big project and I don't think i am ready for it yet. ===== Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com Photography - Computers - Trains __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15066	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 10/16/2001
Subject: NORTH PENN S NEWSLETTER

I am pleased to announce that the North Penn S Gaugers website is up to date and functioning again. Scroll down for our "Newsletter Current" or visit our various train shows. North Penn S Gaugers website at: http://npsg3.homestead.com/files/npsgi.htm Staying on the NPSG branchline of NASG track, Glenn Ritter, Corresponding Secretary

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15067	From: Dan Brindell	Date: 10/16/2001
Subject: Re: Layout

If I were you, I would stick with the Flyer track for now. It is more economical, especially if you already have some, and looks good, at least it's not Lionel 3-rail track, which really looks like heck. Also, take a look at rubber roadbed, which is available as original Flyer or repro. It make the track look even better and it kills unwanted noise. The roadbed comes in two colors, black or grey. I like black better, because it blends in with the black ties on the Flyer track. The rubber roadbed is widely available at around $2 a piece or a bit less. You might want to set up a layout with your Flyer track and just avoid building too much permanent scenery for the time being, so it will be easy to change. At the same time, visit some train shows and take a look at the flex track or sectional track with the molded plastic roadbed. You might like it better, but be sure to add up the cost before making your final decision. The cost might change your mind! To maximize fun, try to add some things to do, in addition to watching the trains go 'round (which most of us find to be fun anyway). The smoking Flyer steam locos are great. Switches add fun, but best of all are the operating accessories like the coal loader. You might start out with a lower-cost accessory like a bell danger signal or cow on track and work your way up from there. I congratulate you on starting out with the right question, which is, how to have fun! Good luck! Dan Brindell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Euell Johnson" <bigfoot@...> To: "slist" <s-trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2001 11:33 AM Subject: [S-Trains] Layout > I have quite a bit of old AF stuff, track, cars, two locomotives, a GP and a desiel, switchs crosses and two transformers. We started with a set for Christmas after the was and as part of a Christmas tradition, added to it each year. > > Assume for the moment that you were going to set up a new layout. > > Should I use the original AF track? If not, what? > > In order to maximize the fun, what is your advice on a layout? I am a retired manufacturing type, not a RR man. > > bigfoot > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15068	From: carl@wsbt.com	Date: 10/16/2001
Subject: Carl's S Gauge Empire web site

I have a new web site devoted to my layout and S gauge ideas. I will be adding my tips and welcome suggestions for new content. Please visit and come back now and again. The url is: http://list.wsbt.com/af Thanks, Carl

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15069	From: Wayne Broadhead	Date: 10/16/2001
Subject: Re: Carl's S Gauge Empire web site

Hey Carl, All I can say is WOW!! What a layout! Thanks for the URL....it was a blast to see...and yes I will be back to visit. Wayne carl@... wrote: > > I have a new web site devoted to my layout and S gauge ideas. > I will be adding my tips and welcome suggestions for new content. > Please visit and come back now and again. > > The url is: > > http://list.wsbt.com/af > > Thanks, > > Carl > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15070	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 10/17/2001
Subject: Re: Carl's S Gauge Empire web site

Nice job, Carl, really nice. Very tight electronics, super neat wiring. You are going in a direction with train control that I want to explore. Now comes the part that says goodbye to the engineer in you and calls for the artist to come out and play. It's a hard transition to make, but this thing ought to be awesome once you scenic it. Thanx for the look-see. I am reposting the URL for anyone who passed over it the first time. This site is mandatory viewing for everyone on this list. The url is: http://list.wsbt.com/af Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15071	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 10/17/2001
Subject: Re: Carl's S Gauge Empire web site

Hi Carl, Thanks for the link to the NASG. The layout has a great start and I saw some Pennsy freight behind those F units. I have bookmarked it to keep up with your progress. Staying on the NPSG branchline of NASG track, Glenn carl@... wrote: I have a new web site devoted to my layout and S gauge ideas. I will be adding my tips and welcome suggestions for new content. Please visit and come back now and again. The url is: http://list.wsbt.com/af Thanks, Carl

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15072	From: davedesian@clarkus.com	Date: 10/17/2001
Subject: Layout Track

I am a hi-rail AF/AM/SHS fan. My layout is 10'x20' on seven levels with a 5 turn 60" helix. I used AF track and switches on the layout. I have over 100 AF switches on the layout. I however, dress the track and system in a number of inexpensive ways. 1) I would buy the cheapest, dirtiest, ugliest track that I could find. My average cost for track maybe 10 to 15 cent per section for both straight and curve. 2) I would then lay the track on paper outside and spray paint the track flat black. I would buy the cheapest spray paint form Home Depot, about $2.00 per can. 3) I would then by using my bench grinder wire wheel, wire brush the black paint form the top of the rail and end pins. 4) I would draw a center line on my bench work for the track and either nail or screw the track directly to the 1/2" board. I ended up drilling an oversized hole in every other metal ties and used black sheet rock screws to hold the track in place. It made installations easier with a cordless drill and screw bit. 5) A simple hint when installing the track. As each track is put in place, with a small hammer and punch, lightly tap the new rail to mate tight up against the in place track. If there is any bumps in the mated track, with a quick hit of a metal file, smooth the rail tops. When you are completed, the system is going to catch everyone's attention. 6) I then placed Beaver Boys' black wooden ties between the metal ties. I used two wood ties between each metal tie. Having the track screwed down made it easier to back the track off for the ties to slide under the track. 7) I then used gray Ballast King's ground up rubber ballast between the ties to put the finishing touch on the track system. 8) Care needs to be taken to make sure that the ballast is spread between the ties and that the tops of the ties are clear of any stray ballast. It makes a big difference on the look of the system. 9) I would use a diluted white glue and dish soap solution to glue the whole system in place. 10) For sidings and yards, I would sprinkle fine black dust over the gray ballast to give it a dirty look. 11) When the glue dries, I have a system that looks good and is soft to the touch. I have used American Models track in the helix and I have two Gargraves switches. But for the most part, my layout is AF track and switches. My train operations is flawless due to the attention in laying the track straight and smooth including the curves. If you are experiencing derailments, it generally falls into to one of two areas. One is poor track alignment and the other is improper wheel gauging on the engines and rolling stock. If they are correct, you will be able to run your trains for hours without a problem. And that is a thing of beauty. If anyone would like more information, feel free to e-mail me. Also if anyone is in the DC area and would like to view my layout, again e-mail me or call. David Avedesian Baltimore Area American Flyer Club 301 272 8384 w 301 929 9000 h

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15073	From: louis glumac	Date: 10/17/2001
Subject: for sale

hi,if anyone is interested i have a few sets of af switches and control buttons for ass. for sale, would like to give the group first chance at them,, email me for a price and we can work something out, i have some hard to find extra control buttons for sale also,,,,, thanks lou [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15074	From: Ted Larson	Date: 10/17/2001
Subject: phun foto

Check out SSW 84566 at: http://www.snowcrest.net/photobob/flat1.html Mark T. Evans Anaheim, CA ===== Ted Larson __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15075	From: Rick Evans	Date: 10/17/2001
Subject: Good to be back,....

I've been off-line for a couple of weeks,...computer has been in the shop. What a pain,..had to go through and re-set all of my personal settings,..still haven't figured them all out yet!! I have also been working on my "Fall" layout...just a 42"x54" board on my coffee table, enough room for a small loop and all of my Fall buildings, trees, Plasticville station and water tower. Still need to wire all of the buildings for lights. I am taking down my little layout out in the garage, so I can sell/donate the furniture that it is resting on!! Couldn't bear not running any trains until the Christmas set-up around the tree. I had bought some more Fall buildings on sale (from Rite-Aid, in our area, they bought out Thrifty Drug I believe) to ad to the ones I bought last year. So I thought I would build a little "Fall" layout in my den. I'll try to get some pics of it and send them to Paul, and maybe he can post them. Hopefully this week I can catch up on all the S-Trains posts!! Rick "Back in the Saddle" Evans.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15076	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 10/17/2001
Subject: Video Projects

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15077	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 10/17/2001
Subject: Video projects

Thanks to everyone that came on board. Both Volumes 1 and Volume II are completely sold out. We will now finish up Volume III and get it ready for mid November mailing. We may make up some "trilogy" sets of all three to be released the first of the year, (depends on interest) but in the meantime please don't send any more payments for Volumes 1 or II. Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15078	From: Hansen, Bruce x4383	Date: 10/17/2001
Subject: Correct loads for 715/915 car

What are the correct loads for the 715/915 car ? I have seen many different variations ( types, colors ) of the Manoil, Renwal, Tootsietoys, etc. I have a really nice example of the loading/unloading car but am unsure of the "heritage" of the loads I have seen offered. Also, is there a specific track trip that operates the car ? Thanks bwhansen@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15079	From: John Foley	Date: 10/17/2001
Subject: (no subject)

Hi Carl GREAT LAYOUT!!! Empire is right. Your website is very well done, great photos. Maybe we will see your layout in the Dispatch. John Foley NASG VP www.nasg.org Message: 7 Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 03:09:18 -0000 From: carl@... Subject: Carl's S Gauge Empire web site I have a new web site devoted to my layout and S gauge ideas. I will be adding my tips and welcome suggestions for new content. Please visit and come back now and again. The url is: http://list.wsbt.com/af Thanks, Carl [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15080	From: aztecfan@yahoo.com	Date: 10/17/2001
Subject: Wall Mart S Gauge

They now have 4 versions of the Blue Box houses. I'll try and post pictures later. Walgreens some times cares them 2 for $11. Just remove the handle on the top of the houses. The School does not look like a school, but the inside details can be used in another school house. There is a new moder version with bay windows. The other product I like is $4.88 three bay fire house and 1 bay police Station. I added a section on the top half. Just add a piece of plastic abouve the top window and possibly below. Two go building frons for less then $5. Now that is ceaper then both HO or O gauge. It comes in a flat blue box. I use the fense for my Vitorian Adam's Family House.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15081	From: gunrjoe@aol.com	Date: 10/17/2001
Subject: Electrical Pickups on trucks

I think I now have every repair manual and parts catalog for AF, but even the latest Greenbergs guide to AF fails to detail the two? trucks with electrical pickups. I see that my log and coal dump cars have a lever which goes all the way accross and is anchored in the opposite side frame. My auto unloading and operating box car have pickups which anchor on a post held on by a retainer clip. Finally my question. I just picked up a 735 for my passenger station but found that both the elecrtical pickup arm is missing but it also obviously should also have an anchoring post which is broken out of the truck bracket and is missing Looking through my parts catalog I think that the anchoring post is likely not available. Can I just use the longer pickup style arm that anchors on the opposite side?? as it does have a slot there. Do I need a whole new truck assembly?? What is the best way to proceed to get the car operating. Thanks ,Joe [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15082	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 10/17/2001
Subject: electrical pickups on trucks

Joe: there is no post missing from the shoed truck of your 735 car. You are just missing a shoe and a spring. The link truck has no post, just a dimple on the truck frame. There is also a dimple on the shoe. The spring is held in place by these two dimples. The knuckle version has a post, with a hole in the shoe to accommodate it. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15083	From: Cheri221@aol.com	Date: 10/17/2001
Subject: Pacific NW Train Show

For those in Western Washington (or who want to travel): this coming weekend, October 20-21, is the 4th Annual Maple Valley Operating Model Train Show. Last year, we were the first S-Gaugers to be invited. This year we will have another S-Gauge layout along with other gauges represented. The Kitsap Live Steamers, Boeing Model Railroad Club (HO), Lego trains, Brio trains, N-scalers, the "L" folks (O), LGB, G-Scale, Standard Gauge. Even some OO gauge. The entire weekend is dedicated to playing trains. Bring your trains to run on our tracks! The show runs from 10-6 on Saturday and 10-5 on Sunday. The address is: Gracie Hansen Community Center, 27132 S.E. Ravensdale Way, Ravensdale, WA. Check out their website at: http://mytown.koz.com/community/trainshow Hope to see you there! Cheri and John Warner Auburn, WA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15084	From: Milton Obuch	Date: 10/17/2001
Subject: November Is Model Railroad Month...

HI to all of the Gang. Next month is Model Railroad Month, durring the month of November our newly formed club {Oklahoma Railroad Club & Railway Society} will be holding an month long FundRasiser to help raise funds for our club and to later rebuild our clubs HO scale layout that the club has received. Its now in storage in Western Oklahoma, once the club has found an site to place the layout at and to build the 2nd half, once we have found somewhere to put it. [ Anyone got an building their not using, witnin OKC ? ] > All month long durring the Model Railroad Month [November] the club will be holding an FundRasier, then on December 8th over at the Oklahoma Station Bar B Q, will be an Special Meeting as to this newly formed club.< [The meeting is around the Lunch Time, so that all that would like to have lunch with other railfans,trainbuffs and Railroader, and others that just love trains can come and have lunch with the others and around 12:30 to 1 Pm their will be an special meeting] > Our club will be building an new S Gauge layout, can't yet say how large it will be but it will be smaller that the HO gauge layout, that was donated to our club. I'de like to hear from other S Gauge people, for I have been out of the "AC Gilbert" area for over 15 years, and now just found some old S gauge cars, that I am going to restore, plus I'm going to have to build an new S gauge layout once I have found an place to put our clubs layouts at. { Anyone within OKC have an space that they would let us use ?? } Next-time I'll post what my old S Gauge layout looked like. < For more INFO see our web-page, or send him an Email, let us all help get this newly formed club started off right. We're get the 'Non-For-Profit-Group" off to an good start. > If your able to atten this meeting, later on Dec. 8th Please RSVP me, so that we'll have some idea of the number that may be going to atten the meeting, we have booked an room that will hold around 35-40 people, we'll have lunch from 11:30 to 12:30 then the meeting will be after 12:30 Pm. We'll have an new video to show everyone that attens the meeting, for I'm going to later next week run out to Sayre, and make an totaly new video of the layout, as it now sits and film the layout from spots that I can get to. = Plus I'll have new images of the layout and will bring them to the meeting in December. > Since I don't know ''yet" if our club will have an table at the OKC Train Show, we'll just maybe handout flyers and invite cars to anyone that attens the 2 day train show. < = > Then durring the next '7' weeks time {Oct. 18th to Dec. 08th} the club will hold an month long FundRasiser, then after we're done with the OKC TrainShow, we'll hold an meeting on Dec. 8th to show off the clubs layout. < Anyone wating to learn more INFO as to the Layout or our club can now visit the clubs web page, for it has been updated, and I've covered it all their at our web-site, but the INFO as to National Model Railroad Month hasn't yet been added to our site, but I will add it soon. > Well this is all for this evening. > This edited post is being send to only the S Gauge Groups. ~ Plus I do understand that some may not like to have an long boring text, so I'll try to hold it to around an page and half, and edit out whats not needed for the groups that now get it. < 73's...Milton Obuch [N5ULP] Webmaster,Founder,CEO,List-Owner. Trains of the OKC area & OK Railway Group, Membership allways open NEW YAHOO GROUP: Oklahoma Railroad Club, EMail & Link: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/okrailroadclub okrailroadclub@... Please visit our web sites, heres an updated listing and Links: Web: http://hometown.aol.com/youwereborn4vcc/index.html Web: http://hometown.aol.com/trainsofokc/index.html Web: http://hometown.aol.com/trainsofokc/ElReno.html Please visit our other web sites, heres an updated listing and Links: (**) AOL Group: http://groups.aol.com/okrailway AOL Group: http://groups.aol.com/railroadclub Yahoo Group:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Trains_Of_The_OKC_Area Now with "24" members, Membership allways open Have You Tryed Our Donut Poll ?? Got Krispy-Kreme Donuts ?? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Trains_Of_The_OKC_Area/polls (**): You don't have to be an member of AOL, to join or use this group, You just have to have an screen-name to use their service, and Membership allways open, anyone can post messages, or use the chat area at our new group sites. > November Is National Model Railroad Month, So check out this new railroad club, and Learn More About OK Railroad Club and our Sponsor Membership Page http://hometown.aol.com/okrailroadclub/myhomepage/club.html http://hometown.aol.com/mao83053/SMPage.html Our New Event Calendar Can Be Found At: http://calendar.yahoo.com/mao83053 PS:If any of you S-Gauge Scale Modelers live within Oklahoma or OKC, Please let me know I'de like to learn about your layout(s) you have. . . . . . . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15085	From: Milton Obuch	Date: 10/17/2001
Subject: November Is Model Railroad Month...

HI to all of the Gang. Next month is Model Railroad Month, durring the month of November our newly formed club {Oklahoma Railroad Club & Railway Society} will be holding an month long FundRasiser to help raise funds for our club and to later rebuild our clubs HO scale layout that the club has received. Its now in storage in Western Oklahoma, once the club has found an site to place the layout at and to build the 2nd half, once we have found somewhere to put it. [ Anyone got an building their not using, witnin OKC ? ] > Most of you have heared of the Down & Under --and-- Over & Across Railroad Company. It's the name that I called it,when I was building it, for my mom out at Sayre has donated it to the club, since its in her storage building. < The 2nd Half will display an 1940 to 1960 setup of the old AT&SF Nowers Freight Yard, as it was before Flynn came along. > The club is now seeking any data,maps or drawing or information as to Nowers Yard, as it was back in the 40's to late 50's, So if anyone has any INFO would they get with me ASAP, The 2nd Half of this layout is just now in the planing stage, for the 1th half was in an 2 year planing stage, before the 1th nail or board was used. < All month long durring the Model Railroad Month [November] the club will be holding an FundRasier, then on December 8th over at the Oklahoma Station Bar B Q, will be an Speical Meeting as to this newly formed club. > The meeting is around the Lunch Time, so that all that would like to have lunch with other Railfans,Trainbuffs,Railroader, and others that just love trains can come and have lunch with the others and around 12:30 to 1 Pm their will be an special meeting. For more INFO see our web-page, or send him an Email, let us all help get this newly formed club started off right. We're get the 'Non-For-Profit-Group" off to an good start. > If your able to atten this meeting, later on Dec. 8th Please RSVP me, so that we'll have some idea of the number that may be going to atten the meeting, we have booked an room that will hold around 35-40 people, we'll have lunch from 11:30 to 12:30 then the meeting will be after 12:30 Pm. We'll have an new video to show everyone that attens the meeting, for I'm going to later next week run out to Sayre, and make an totaly new video of the layout, as it now sits and film the layout from spots that I can get to. = Plus I'll have new images of the layout and will bring them to the meeting in December. > Since I don't know ''yet" if our club will have an table at the OKC Train Show, we'll just maybe handout flyers and invite cars to anyone that attens the 2 day train show. < = > Then durring the next '7' weeks time { Oct. 18th to Dec. 08th Anyone wating to learn more INFO as to the Layout or our club can now visit the clubs web page, for it has been updated, and I've covered it all their at our web-site, but the INFO as to National Model Railroad Month hasn't yet been added to our site, but I will add it soon. > Well this is all for this evening. > This edited post is being send to only the HO Gauge Groups,plus I'll later send the S Gauge Groups, another text thats just for them.~ Plus I do understand that some may not like to have an long boring text, so I'll try to hold it to around an page and half, and edit out whats not needed for the groups that now get it. < 73's...Milton Obuch [N5ULP] Webmaster,Founder,CEO,List-Owner. Trains of the OKC area & OK Railway Group, Membership allways open NEW YAHOO GROUP: Oklahoma Railroad Club, EMail & Link: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/okrailroadclub okrailroadclub@... Please visit our web sites, heres an updated listing and Links: Web: http://hometown.aol.com/youwereborn4vcc/index.html Web: http://hometown.aol.com/trainsofokc/index.html Web: http://hometown.aol.com/trainsofokc/ElReno.html Please visit our other web sites, heres an updated listing and Links: (**) AOL Group: http://groups.aol.com/okrailway AOL Group: http://groups.aol.com/railroadclub Yahoo Group:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Trains_Of_The_OKC_Area Now with "24" members, Membership allways open Have You Tryed Our Donut Poll ?? Got Krispy-Kreme Donuts ?? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Trains_Of_The_OKC_Area/polls (**): You don't have to be an member of AOL, to join or use this group, You just have to have an screen-name to use their service, and Membership allways open, anyone can post messages, or use the chat area at our new group sites. > November Is National Model Railroad Month, So check out this new railroad club, and Learn More About OK Railroad Club and our Sponsor Membership Page http://hometown.aol.com/okrailroadclub/myhomepage/club.html http://hometown.aol.com/mao83053/SMPage.html Our New Event Calendar Can Be Found At: http://calendar.yahoo.com/mao83053 PS:If any of you HO Scale Modelers live within Oklahoma or OKC, Please let me know I'de like to learn about your layout(s) you have. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15086	From: Ted Larson	Date: 10/18/2001
Subject: Fwd: Re: [FC] Interchange Dates

If ya have a week or two that you would like to spend exploring railroad modeling data at one website, here's a good one to click on, see below. I especially like the section labeled "Things that say Southeast", click on "Mailpouch 2" and "Burma-Shave". Ted > From: hosam <hosam > Subject: Re: [FC] Interchange Dates > > > Good Evening, > > I have this information on my web site, and have had for about 2 > years. http://www.hosam.com click on "When did that happen". My > site is > devoted primarily to Southeastern Railroading but some areas must > include all aspects. Hope you enjoy the visit...hosam... > > At 09:04 AM 10/17/01 -0700, you wrote: > > > >The list of interchange rule effectivity dates is outstandingly helpful. It would be great to see this developed into a website page, for reference availability to anybody. If this exists or if someone plans to do it, I'd like to know about it. Ted Larson > ===== Ted Larson __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15087	From: Milton Obuch	Date: 10/18/2001
Subject: Building An New S-Gauge Layout--->

HI to all of the Gang at the S-Gauge Group...This message was an group send from our server, its to only the S Gauge Groups...This text come from the Home Office for the newly formed:"Oklahoma Railroad Club & Railway Society", If you'de like to learn more about our new club, just see the end of this text, I've placed an link at the very-bottom of this text. > I now live in OKC, came from western Oklahoma, where I had both an S gauge layout, and later in life build an HO gauge layout thats now being stored out at Sayre. ~ I'm an PT train-spotter, as well as an railfan, we live close to the old AT&SF Nowers Yard, at times we can hear the trains on the Red Rock Sub, from the area that we now live at,plus I'm the CEO & Chairman for the Club. < The old AC Gilbert that we had down in the family's basement is now gone, but lives on in 3 old photos, that I had remade years ago. We had the saw-mill,coal loader,cattle pen,plus an water tower and water tank and an old green colored railroad station. The power supply was an old dual power pack, that was very big as I recall...Well I'm now drawing up an new S gauge layout, its going tobe big in size,maybe "25X25", its going to have 2 or 3 mainlines, an switching yard, plus several other idems. > Since I have been out of the S Gauge area, for over 20 years, I would like to hear from others on this S Gauge list, Plus if their are any of you within the OKC area or just some-where in Oklahoma, I would like to hear from you. < Well this is all for this Thursday afternoon, I do plan to get out later and do some train-spotting here in the Nowers Yard Area... 73's...Milton Obuch [N5ULP] Webmaster,Founder,CEO,List-Owner. Trains of the OKC area & OK Railway Group, Membership allways open NEW YAHOO GROUP: Oklahoma Railroad Club, EMail & Link: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/okrailroadclub okrailroadclub@... Please visit our web sites, heres an updated listing and Links: Web: http://hometown.aol.com/youwereborn4vcc/index.html Web: http://hometown.aol.com/trainsofokc/index.html Web: http://hometown.aol.com/trainsofokc/ElReno.html Please visit our other web sites, heres an updated listing and Links: (**) AOL Group: http://groups.aol.com/okrailway AOL Group: http://groups.aol.com/railroadclub Yahoo Group:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Trains_Of_The_OKC_Area Now with "24" members, Membership allways open Have You Tryed Our Donut Poll ?? Got Krispy-Kreme Donuts ?? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Trains_Of_The_OKC_Area/polls (**): You don't have to be an member of AOL, to join or use this group, You just have to have an screen-name to use their service, and Membership allways open, anyone can post messages, or use the chat area at our new group sites. > November Is National Model Railroad Month, So check out this new railroad club, and Learn More About OK Railroad Club and our Sponsor Membership Page http://hometown.aol.com/okrailroadclub/myhomepage/club.html http://hometown.aol.com/mao83053/SMPage.html Our New Event Calendar Can Be Found At: http://calendar.yahoo.com/mao83053 PS:If any of you S-Gauge Scale Modelers live within Oklahoma or OKC, Please let me know I'de like to learn about your layout(s) you have. . . . . . . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15088	From: John Foley	Date: 10/18/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Building An New S-Gauge Layout--->

Hi Milton It's always great to hear about new clubs starting up. Your new layout sounds great. You have a very interesting website I enjoyed it and added it to my favorites. I am the VP of the National Association of S Gaugers. Check out our website at www.nasg.org. We have a very good links page. You can visit other S layouts and also view many S manufacturers websites. Keep us informed how you folks are doing. We can put a message in our association's magazine the Dispatch that you are looking for folks in your area who share our interest. Please send me some contact information and I would be how to send it to our editor if you wish. Also I will be happy to send a packet of our literature. Yours Truly John Foley At 02:42 PM 10/18/01 -0500, Milton Obuch wrote: >HI to all of the Gang at the S-Gauge Group...This message was an group >send from our server, its to only the S Gauge Groups...This text come from >the Home Office for the newly formed:"Oklahoma Railroad Club & Railway >Society", If you'de like to learn more about our new club, just see the >end of this text, I've placed an link at the very-bottom of this text. > I >now live in OKC, came from western Oklahoma, where I had both an S gauge >layout, and later in life build an HO gauge layout thats now being stored >out at Sayre. ~ I'm an PT train-spotter, as well as an railfan, we live >close to the old AT&SF Nowers Yard, at times we can hear the trains on the >Red Rock Sub, from the area that we now live at,plus I'm the CEO & >Chairman for the Club. < > >The old AC Gilbert that we had down in the family's basement is now gone, >but lives on in 3 old photos, that I had remade years ago. We had the >saw-mill,coal loader,cattle pen,plus an water tower and water tank and an >old green colored railroad station. The power supply was an old dual power >pack, that was very big as I recall...Well I'm now drawing up an new S >gauge layout, its going tobe big in size,maybe "25X25", its going to have >2 or 3 mainlines, an switching yard, plus several other idems. > Since I >have been out of the S Gauge area, for over 20 years, I would like to hear >from others on this S Gauge list, Plus if their are any of you within the >OKC area or just some-where in Oklahoma, I would like to hear from you. < > >Well this is all for this Thursday afternoon, I do plan to get out later >and do some train-spotting here in the Nowers Yard Area... > >73's...Milton Obuch [N5ULP] Webmaster,Founder,CEO,List-Owner. > >Trains of the OKC area & OK Railway Group, Membership allways open > >NEW YAHOO GROUP: Oklahoma Railroad Club, EMail & Link: > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/okrailroadclub > >okrailroadclub@... > >Please visit our web sites, heres an updated listing and Links: > >Web: http://hometown.aol.com/youwereborn4vcc/index.html > >Web: http://hometown.aol.com/trainsofokc/index.html > >Web: http://hometown.aol.com/trainsofokc/ElReno.html > >Please visit our other web sites, heres an updated listing and Links: (**) > >AOL Group: http://groups.aol.com/okrailway > >AOL Group: http://groups.aol.com/railroadclub > >Yahoo Group:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Trains_Of_The_OKC_Area > >Now with "24" members, Membership allways open > >Have You Tryed Our Donut Poll ?? Got Krispy-Kreme Donuts ?? > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Trains_Of_The_OKC_Area/polls > >(**): You don't have to be an member of AOL, to join or use this group, > >You just have to have an screen-name to use their service, and > >Membership allways open, anyone can post messages, or use > >the chat area at our new group sites. > November Is National > >Model Railroad Month, So check out this new railroad club, and > >Learn More About OK Railroad Club and our Sponsor Membership Page > >http://hometown.aol.com/okrailroadclub/myhomepage/club.html > >http://hometown.aol.com/mao83053/SMPage.html > >Our New Event Calendar Can Be Found At: > >http://calendar.yahoo.com/mao83053 > >PS:If any of you S-Gauge Scale Modelers live within Oklahoma or OKC, > >Please let me know I'de like to learn about your layout(s) you have. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >To see or post Photos visit >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Scale/files/ >or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/ >To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15089	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 10/19/2001
Subject: Edwards Motor Car - on the web

http://www.ci.salisbury.nc.us/nctrans/M200.htm http://www.nsrm-friends.org/nsrm14.htm http://davesrailpix.railfan.net/odds/tx/htm/dallas68.htm WOW! I found this also... RS: Re-birth of the Edwards Motor Car Co. To: railspot@... Subject: RS: Re-birth of the Edwards Motor Car Co. From: Cary Poole <Cary.Poole@...> Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 16:38:04 -0500 Sender: owner-railspot@... Just got word that the rights to the Edwards Motor Car Co., have been purchased by Steve Torrico of Mt. Dora, Fla. He intends to build both the floor plans of the #10 and #20 models. The Edwards Motor Car was a self-propelled early version of the EMC "doodlebug." The unique feature was that the gasoline powdered straight line engine sat directly on the front truck and delievered power directly to a four-speed manual transmission. This transmission was equipped with both four forward AND reverse gears. With the prime mover lowered directly to the truck, there was no bulky engine compartment to contend with. Approximately 100 of these cars were built in the 1920's, with the CB&Q having the largest single order of 12. Other southern shortlines picked up the units, as well as several going to Central and South America. The niche is to sell them to municipalities who want street car type service, but without the overhead electric wires. They also think some excursion lines will purchase the units as well. Expected operational costs are to be around $.50 a mile, with the model #20 holding 42 passengers. Actually more seats can be added since the standard Edwards model #20 left room for baggage space and a toilet. There was also a model #21 which was streamlined. Future plans for the revived company may include building some of these units as well. A prototype has been built, with a couple of other orders on hand. The idea is to build the units for around $150,000. Those of you who are in the excusion business, the contact name and number are: Steve Torrico, P.O. Box 1064 Mt. Dora, Fl, 32756, ph: 352-383-7910. It should be interesting to see this historic railroad related company back in business. If anyone knows of contacts, photos, or diagrams of the Edwards models, please contact me (Cary Poole <Cary.Poole@...>) and I will forward to Steve. ===== Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com Photography - Computers - Trains __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15090	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 10/19/2001
Subject: Sound, DCC, and trolleys

Doe anyone make a sound 'decoder' for an interurban? (This includes MU coaches.) I am thinking along the lines of SoundTraxx's Steam, Diesel, and GG1 sounds. Thorin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15091	From: David Sapadin	Date: 10/19/2001
Subject: Curve Radius of AF Track

Hi: Can someone tell me what the curve radius is of the original AF sectional track? Does anyone know if Gargraves or American Models flextrack can be flexed successfully to that same radius? Thanks! David Sapadin david@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15092	From: lancemccold@chartertn.net	Date: 10/19/2001
Subject: Wobbly wheels

I took the wheels off a diesel motor to do some clean up. When I put them back on they wobbled. They seem to be on the axle tight, but when the motor turns the wheels turn, the flanges go in and out. What did I do wrong? How do I get them to go on square? Thanks in advance for the advice. Lance

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15093	From: ron inscho	Date: 10/19/2001
Subject: Re: Curve Radius of AF Track

It's about 22 in. radius & way too sharp ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Sapadin" <david@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 3:00 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Curve Radius of AF Track > Hi: > > Can someone tell me what the curve radius is of the original AF > sectional track? Does anyone know if Gargraves or American Models > flextrack can be flexed successfully to that same radius? Thanks! > > David Sapadin > david@... > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15094	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 10/19/2001
Subject: Re: Curve Radius of AF Track

David Sapadin Wrote: >Can someone tell me what the curve radius is of the original AF >sectional track? Does anyone know if Gargraves or American Models >flextrack can be flexed successfully to that same radius? Thanks! AF curved track radius is "officially" 19 inches at the CENTER of the track. (That is what the layout planning templates show.) In practice it will tend to be just that, or as much as 1/8 inch more. Gargraves flextrack will curve to 19 inches, but of course it must be properly "massaged". Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15095	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 10/19/2001
Subject: 21910-1 horn

Hey ACG Flyer operators, what might be wrong with a SF freight b-unit 21910-1 for which Diesel Roar works great, but the horn does not respond. It is hooked up to an air chime whistle generator which, for example, makes the horn on a 499 EP-5 sound off really well, but not the horn on this beauty "B". Thanks in advance for your help. Dave -------------------------- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld (www.BlackBerry.net) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15096	From: IronHorse	Date: 10/20/2001
Subject: Re: Wobbly wheels

Either you bent the axle or the metal tire got twisted on the insulator. The wheel itself is in three pieces. Run your loco again and look at the end of the axle. Is it wobbling? If so, then it is bent. If not, then the wheel is twisted on the insulator within the wheel. Roger lancemccold@... wrote: > I took the wheels off a diesel motor to do some clean up. When I put > them back on they wobbled. They seem to be on the axle tight, but > when the motor turns the wheels turn, the flanges go in and out. > > What did I do wrong? How do I get them to go on square? Thanks in > advance for the advice. > > Lance > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15097	From: IronHorse	Date: 10/20/2001
Subject: Re: Curve Radius of AF Track

Original AF track is 24" radius. Pike-master is 19" radius. Pike master is no good for some of the older locos. The older locos hit the switch machines on pike-master switches. Some older passenger cars do the same. Which is a shame because pike-master track looks good. The tight radius would look good in a city scene where tight radiuses are common. Only small switchers go through the city shuttling freight cars around. Roger eighthmile@... wrote: > David Sapadin Wrote: > > >Can someone tell me what the curve radius is of the original AF > >sectional track? Does anyone know if Gargraves or American Models > >flextrack can be flexed successfully to that same radius? Thanks! > > AF curved track radius is "officially" 19 inches at the CENTER of the > track. (That is what the layout planning templates show.) In practice > it will tend to be just that, or as much as 1/8 inch more. Gargraves > flextrack will curve to 19 inches, but of course it must be > properly "massaged". > > Chuck F. > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15098	From: Jay	Date: 10/20/2001
Subject: Re: Curve Radius of AF Track

Ron, You wrote that the AF radius is way too sharp. As a real newcomer (haven't even set up my first layout yet); could you expound a little on this subject. I'm sure I'm not the only neophyte. Jay -- Jay _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15099	From: Scott Holm	Date: 10/20/2001
Subject: Re: Curve Radius of AF Track

--- IronHorse <cofa@...> wrote: > Original AF track is 24" radius. Pike-master is 19" radius. No, original AF track is 19-1/8" radius measured to the center line of the track. Pikemaster is 15" radius. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15100	From: gino restivo	Date: 10/20/2001
Subject: Re: 21910-1 horn

hi dave , seems like you may have a broken wire , bad capaciter,bad spkr you need to do some ck'ing to determine which is the cause , use a test lite or volt meter and trace it .... good luck , gino -----Original Message----- From: david_horn@... <david_horn@...> To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Date: Saturday, October 20, 2001 1:06 AM Subject: [S-Trains] 21910-1 horn >Hey ACG Flyer operators, what might be wrong with a SF freight b-unit >21910-1 for which Diesel Roar works great, but the horn does not respond. >It is hooked up to an air chime whistle generator which, for example, makes >the horn on a 499 EP-5 sound off really well, but not the horn on this >beauty "B". Thanks in advance for your help. Dave >-------------------------- >Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld (www.BlackBerry.net) > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > ---------------------------------------------------- Sign Up for NetZero Platinum Today Only $9.95 per month! http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15101	From: gino restivo	Date: 10/20/2001
Subject: Re: Wobbly diesel wheels

hi lance , did this many times , i take it ,you took off all the wheels ? i do when they need to have bushings installed , i use a small press and wheel cups to put them back on you can use a drill press , a bench vise can be used , something to hold and push the axle or wheel on , i have made many wheel cups for various diesel's, if i can help you further e-mail me off list for this good luck , gino -----Original Message----- From: lancemccold@... <lancemccold@...> To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Date: Friday, October 19, 2001 9:50 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Wobbly wheels >I took the wheels off a diesel motor to do some clean up. When I put >them back on they wobbled. They seem to be on the axle tight, but >when the motor turns the wheels turn, the flanges go in and out. > >What did I do wrong? How do I get them to go on square? Thanks in >advance for the advice. > >Lance > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > ---------------------------------------------------- Sign Up for NetZero Platinum Today Only $9.95 per month! http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15102	From: David	Date: 10/20/2001
Subject: Part Needed....

Had a blast at York. Tons of Flyer for a change. In the White hall and Red hall it seemed that every time you turned around there were two or three tables loaded with the stuff. There were certainly deals to be made, and its hard passing on some bargains so I didn't spend all of my money in the first two buildings. I picked up a 23601 crossing gate with the plastic shed. Its roof has some chipping along one edge. I've tried the major parts vendors, and I understand this piece is not being repro'd yet. Don't know why except its supposedly a rather pricey project. There were a lot of later accessories there at York cheap that had this part missing, so a market is definitely there. Anyway, if anyone has one in their stash and is willing to sell it off, please let me know. I'd also accept a junk later aircraft beacon or floodlight tower with a good building on it if the price was reasonable. Thanks in advance.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15103	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 10/20/2001
Subject: 21901-1

I have had only had a few minutes to check this out, but found continuity between the body of the speaker and the chassis. The factory taped the speaker to insulate it from the metal strap that holds the speaker to the chassis but the strap's screw apparently had become loose enough that the speaker shifted and the broader uninsulated portion was making contact with the strap. Could that have fried the speaker? It seems dead to any current applied to its posts. Usually they crackle. Who has good replacement speakers, and what replacement capacitor and resistor should I look for? Thanks again for your help. PS. This speaker looks original, but it has only two posts, not three (i.e. VCF). Diagrams for b-units with roar indicate 3-post speakers. What's up with mine having only 2? -------------------------- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld (www.BlackBerry.net) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15105	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 10/20/2001
Subject: Re: Curve Radius of AF Track

Roger wrote: >Original AF track is 24" radius. Dunno how you arrived at that figure, Roger, but it's a might...um, off. I personally have measured AF curved track on several occasions to be (practically) 19 and 1/8 inches in radius. The "official" figure of 19 inches was chosen so that a 180 degree turn would fit neatly on a piece of plywood 4 feet wide, leaving a few inches of space left over at the outside of the curve. I have a Christmas layout with an oval of 12 curves and six straight sections mounted on a base board of 4 feet by six feet 10 inches. If AF curves were 24 inches in radius, the oval would not have fit on a board of only 48 inches in width. >Pike-master is 19" radius. Pike master is actually 15 inches in radius. That's pretty tight alright, but it's still more than the 13.5 inch radius of O-27. (A fact I delight in pointing out to my O gauger friends... :^D ) Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15106	From: Tom Rolfsmeyer	Date: 10/21/2001
Subject: Sunday Chat

Hi guys, Won't make the Sunday chat today. We will be piking up my mom at the air port. Have a good chat and stay on the S side. Tom Rolfsmeyer

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15107	From: Dan Brindell	Date: 10/21/2001
Subject: Re: 21901-1

To get a good test of your speaker, I would try applying a audio signal to it instead of direct current. Use the headphone output of a radio or TV or even the speaker output of your computer's sound card. That should give you a definitive test of whether the speaker works, instead of relying on the crackle. Dan Brindell ----- Original Message ----- From: <david_horn@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2001 11:16 PM Subject: [S-Trains] 21901-1 > I have had only had a few minutes to check this out, but found continuity > between the body of the speaker and the chassis. The factory taped the > speaker to insulate it from the metal strap that holds the speaker to the > chassis but the strap's screw apparently had become loose enough that the > speaker shifted and the broader uninsulated portion was making contact with > the strap. Could that have fried the speaker? It seems dead to any current > applied to its posts. Usually they crackle. > > Who has good replacement speakers, and what replacement capacitor and > resistor should I look for? Thanks again for your help. > > PS. This speaker looks original, but it has only two posts, not three (i.e. > VCF). Diagrams for b-units with roar indicate 3-post speakers. What's up > with mine having only 2? > -------------------------- > Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld (www.BlackBerry.net) > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15108	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 10/21/2001
Subject: Re: 21910-1 horn

David Horn needs a Diesel Horn generator. You might whistle when you're horny, but your diesels won't. Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15109	From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT	Date: 10/21/2001
Subject: Re: Wall Mart S Gauge

where in wallyworld can you find the blue bell houses? bob

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15110	From: Don Thompson	Date: 10/21/2001
Subject: Re: Latest Container & other news

As you can imagine, we have been busy with the move to the new, larger warehouse (suite 7C & 7D) a few units from our home of the last two years (suite 2C). Added to the fun of moving, we are happy to announce that the container with our new Reefers, reefer 3 car sets, new rebuilts and special cars for American Flyer Boys Club, The Baltimore Area AF club, Port Lines and RSSVP arrived on Wednesday, the day before we left for York. We will be shipping all advanced orders starting tomorrow. -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15111	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 10/21/2001
Subject: Sunday chats

I just keep going round in circles trying to get on to the chats. Somebody please help me get there. Thanks...Steve

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15112	From: Rick Evans	Date: 10/21/2001
Subject: Ceramic buildings @ Wal-Mart...

This evening I bought a ceramic train station for $10 at Wal-Mart. Interesting looking station, round type of building with a tower,.. will fit in nicely with the village I bought from Costco last year! Had no place for trains to stop last year around the Christmas tree!! Well,..I coulda used one of my Plasticville stations. Comes with light cord and bulb,...not bad for $10. Also,...ifn' you have those Dollar stores around your area,..I found four people for a buck for the Christmas layouts. I bought some ice skaters and musicians. Eight people for two bucks! Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15113	From: Wayne Zebron	Date: 10/21/2001
Subject: 293 pacific

Hi, Having a bit of a problem with my 293 Pacific. There is to a "cherping" sound coming from the engine. It seems to be coming from the chug sound unit. I have lubed all moving parts and cleaned out the little hole in the unit. Anybody have any experience with this. Thanks in advance, Wayne

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15114	From: jackress@yahoo.com	Date: 10/21/2001
Subject: Ideas to repair wire on 46' all plastic 630

This is my first attempt to post anything, so kindly bear with me. I have an all red-plastic 1946- 630 Reading caboose that the wires have become disconnected. This 630 is in very nice condition, with only the 46 warp thing going on. There are no breaks, or cracks. Has all the steps, and catwalk ends. I know it's not worth a whole lot, but that's not my concern. My concern is that it is a nice piece, that could be a little nicer with some internal illumination. I'm just not sure about the best way to get inside, past the glue that holds it together. I've had it for years, thinking that at some point I'd find a proper solution to the problem. I believe in waiting for the best solution, as opposed to forcing less than pleasent results. I'm not a high roller Flyer guy with unlimited funds. I'm just an owner operator type who can appreciate, but cannot afford the finner things that others are fortunate enough to have. Good for them, good for me if I get a chance to view them. I'd bet I have just as much fun with American Flyer as the next guy/girl. I enjoy nothing more than finding an abused piece of Flyer and bringing it back to near original operating condition. I make many of my own replacement parts, when the parts required are not available elseware, and have from time to time been able to help out others. But now I'm the one seeking some help, and or advise. I enjoy reading about other people's ideas and fixes, many of which I've been there done that type. Always keeping in mind to be respectful of each persons way about doing things. There are many roads that can lead to your destination, the road you choose is up to the one driving. Thanks for being here. Cheers, Jack Larson

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15115	From: Rick Evans	Date: 10/21/2001
Subject: Re: Ideas to repair wire on 46' all plastic 630

Hmmmm...This is new to me! I have several cabeese,..cabeeses,..cabooses, whatever,..but none with a clued plastic frame. But sure enough, checking the Greenberg book, the first 630's had a plastic clued frame. Boy,..I haven't a clue for the glue! Hopefully someone here can help ya! Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15116	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 10/22/2001
Subject: Sunday Chat

We had a good turn out last night at chat. Head count was 14. We had a fellow that published a recent book on flyer repair, A major parts vendor, two guys that write Flyer repair columns in the two largest Flyer publications, just to name a few. One problem we had last night was that the system was not working properly if you logged on using Netscape. Three of us fired up Microsoft Internet Explorer and were able to join the fun. Join us next Sunday at... http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains Note: this chat is at the Yahoo Club page not the YahooGroup page. If you need assistance, I can meet you at the club room just about any night for a test drive. ===== Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com Photography - Computers - Trains __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15117	From: Steve Roche	Date: 10/22/2001
Subject: York and new layout

Went to my first York last week. Wow, showed considerable restraint due to the fact I had only a carry on bag and did not know how airport security would react to a bag full of trains. Did make the mistake of going to a big trade show in Chicago the day before I went to York. Talk about sore. I got inspired about putting up a semi-permanent layout. In the past I would only set up a Xmas layout. However, my trains have exceeded the allowable space (my wife won't let me move living room furniture out) I'm looking for tips on setting up the first layout. I have 200+ pcs of AF track most with roadbed, 5 pr switches, two 30B transformers, bunch of accessories and action cars and 15 AF locos. I live in SE Texas with no basements hence the layout will be located in the garage and probably dormant in the summer. Any help or guidance is greatly appreciated. Steve

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15118	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 10/22/2001
Subject: 21910-1

Thanks everyone for your notes of information, experience, and recommendations. You're terrific. It turns out my own lack of experience with Roar and a fried 2-post ceramic speaker were the problem. When I tested this b-unit at the train show, it sounded like the Roar was OK, but all I was hearing was load buzzing from the Roar unit without any output from the speaker. There was no air-chime whistle or horn generator around to test the horn, and both the owner and I thought the Roar sounded OK. I should have known better, but up until then had only heard Roar twice and that was while other trains were running. The speaker in this b-unit was shot. I tested for conductivity across the speakers posts with my VOM - - zippo. Your other test suggestions were great and also proved the speaker was dead. To make a long story short, I replaced it with a 3-post ACG speaker from a 326 that I'd rather not have sound like a diesel* and rewired this b-unit accordingly. All is well. Roar roars, and the horn fires off with or without Roar on. Neat. Albeit a little cheesy, but good ol' fifties-fun just the same. If any of you have an original 2-post ceramic speaker that you wouldn't mind selling, please let me know. Thanks. If I had known better I could have pointed this out to the seller and might have possibly gotten a better price, but otherwise this ABA set is in excellent original condition and IMHO one of the most handsome sets of PA's ever made. I'm grateful to own a set, and love this hobby. It always seems there's something to learn, and great people to learn from and share with in the experience. Thank you. * I use the "whistle" in my 336 as a horn based on the fact/excuse that some Northerns were actually equipped with a bell, whistle and horn. Other than that I find it hard to run a steamer with ACW and tell anyone "that's a whistle". [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15119	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 10/22/2001
Subject: Re: wire on 46' all plastic 630

Jack: As far as I know, there are only two wires, one coming from each truck and soldered to the bulb socket. It should not be necessary to open the caboose to repair it. The bulb socket untwists from the bottom, no? This is such a simple repair, and you have so much repair experience, that I feel I may be missing what the problem really is. Most 630's can be totally rewired without disassembly. Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15120	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 10/22/2001
Subject: Yahoo-ooooh-oooooo

Last night's chat room fiasco with some of us being segregated so we could not see the others, even though they could see us, was bizarre to say the least. Very entertaining, but I think we need a new chat server. I have never seen a chat that was so difficult to get into and so laborious to stay on. Paul? Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15121	From: Alex	Date: 10/22/2001
Subject: Re: 21910-1

Hi all: Using a small loudspeaker as a replacement will work---but typically only for a short while before the voice coil burns out (I tried it on two occasions, and that's what I found). However, check with Doug Peck at Port Lines Hobbies. He had whistle speakers that were proper replacements and wouldn't burn out. Also, be very careful of testing a loudspeaker of the size of one that fits in a loco. Feeding audio to it from a large amplifier, as one reader suggested, must be done with extreme care. It's easy to overpower the tiny coil and permanently fry it. Usually, if the speaker coil is intact, a test with an ohmmeter will cause it to crackle, as well as read just a few ohms. Typically, that's all the testing that should be needed to ascertain if it's open or not. You're not looking for super fidelity, just reasonable operation. Even distortion that would be intolerable in an audio application in a radio, for example, would likely result in a decent whistle sound from a loco. On my 336, I actually repaired the open voice coil by very, very carefully re-soldering the fine wire leads, under a workshop magnifier, and then gluing the staked leads in place. I had to "dig" out a bit of the original bakelite, but it didn't take too much to do. It's been working fine since that repair. I tested with an ohmmeter as I worked. On the X1 or X10 range (for my meter), it caused the speaker to crackle. -- Alex in Kennebunk, Maine -----Original Message----- From: david_horn@... [mailto:david_horn@...] Sent: Monday, October 22, 2001 9:13 AM To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [S-Trains] 21910-1 Thanks everyone for your notes of information, experience, and recommendations. You're terrific. It turns out my own lack of experience with Roar and a fried 2-post ceramic speaker were the problem. When I tested this b-unit at the train show, it sounded like the Roar was OK, but all I was hearing was load buzzing from the Roar unit without any output from the speaker. There was no air-chime whistle or horn generator around to test the horn, and both the owner and I thought the Roar sounded OK. I should have known better, but up until then had only heard Roar twice and that was while other trains were running. The speaker in this b-unit was shot. I tested for conductivity across the speakers posts with my VOM - - zippo. Your other test suggestions were great and also proved the speaker was dead. To make a long story short, I replaced it with a 3-post ACG speaker from a 326 that I'd rather not have sound like a diesel* and rewired this b-unit accordingly. All is well. Roar roars, and the horn fires off with or without Roar on. Neat. Albeit a little cheesy, but good ol' fifties-fun just the same. If any of you have an original 2-post ceramic speaker that you wouldn't mind selling, please let me know. Thanks. If I had known better I could have pointed this out to the seller and might have possibly gotten a better price, but otherwise this ABA set is in excellent original condition and IMHO one of the most handsome sets of PA's ever made. I'm grateful to own a set, and love this hobby. It always seems there's something to learn, and great people to learn from and share with in the experience. Thank you. * I use the "whistle" in my 336 as a horn based on the fact/excuse that some Northerns were actually equipped with a bell, whistle and horn. Other than that I find it hard to run a steamer with ACW and tell anyone "that's a whistle". [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15122	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/22/2001
Subject: Re: Ideas to repair wire on 46' all plastic 630

Jack, I'd have to dig out my '46 crummy to look over the wiring system, don't remember how the wire connects to the truck, BUT! I do know the heat of the lamp agravates the warping, so if you run your hack, you will be better off without illumination. I have yet to find any trick to ungluing these things, I believe the glue system that was used actually melts the two parts together. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15123	From: Hannon	Date: 10/22/2001
Subject: York Meet & #26672 Download Problems

York Meet: I just wanted to say I really enjoyed meeting some of you at York. Thanks for stopping by my table and taking the time to say hello. Sorry if I was a bit "out of it", but my son and I stayed up until 3:30 A.M. Friday morning finishing up those shadow boxes with the rewound parts. That trashed us for the rest of the weekend. What I do remember of the meet is some very nice people I'd like to stay in touch with. Bob Hannon ----------------------------------------------- Now: If you're having trouble downloading the update for the #26672 Electric Track Trip, you may be running an outdated version of Adobe Acrobat Reader. Everyone who has contacted me so far with the problem has successfully download the update AFTER upgrading to the latest problem (except for 1 person, and that's still in progress). This is a FREE download from Adobe Systems. If you still have problems with the Update, please let me know by e-mail. It's very important to me that each and every one of you be able to access this information. This is the easiest way to get the update: 1. In Internet Explorer, go to http://www.trainrefs.com 2. Click on the A.C. Gilbert book cover. 3. Click on the "Updates" button on the track. 4. Click on the Adobe Acrobat icon on the "Updates" page (the latest version is now Acrobat Reader 5.0). 5. Scroll to the bottom of the Adobe Page. and click on the icon that reads: "Get Adobe Acrobat Reader FREE!" 6. Select the system you have in the selection box (Step 1 box); then, 7. Click on the Download button (Step 3 box) 8. Follow the prompts. Normally, all you have to do is click on OK, SAVE, CONTINUE, FINISH. -------------------------------------------------------

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15124	From: Ted Larson	Date: 10/22/2001
Subject: Oh, so that's why

Here' an answer on the Freight Car List to a question I've long wondered about; Ted Larson From: "Jeff English" <> Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 13:58:48 -0400 Subject: Re: AB brakes was - Dates for Interchange Requirements While Sir Richard explained the chronology of the orderly development of AB brakes, he didn't mention what made them so much better. K brakes have valves that are sliding plates with orifices, while AB brakes are little poppet valves or rubber diaphragms (I forget which). This type of valve is far less likely to stick, leak or be damaged by grit, and is much more durable. To top it off, I believe the whole thing is less expensive to manufacture, and obviously less expensive to maintain. All compelling reasons to convert as soon as practicable. ===== Ted Larson __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15125	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 10/22/2001
Subject: Re: wire on 46' all plastic 630

> Chris, > I am assuming the wires are soldered to the top of the truck rivits, and > have come loose there--not having dug mine out, is this possible? > S > David Must be. Would it not be possible to run a new wire to the center of the truck, outside the body, then pass it through a convenient or newly drilled hole adjacent the truck, ala Pike Master Casey Jones tenders? Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15126	From: Rick Evans	Date: 10/22/2001
Subject: Re: wire on 46' all plastic 630

David wrote: ***((I am assuming the wires are soldered to the top of the truck rivits, and have come loose there--not having dug mine out, is this possible?))*** Chris wrote: ***((Must be. Would it not be possible to run a new wire to the center of the truck, outside the body, then pass it through a convenient or newly drilled hole adjacent the truck, ala Pike Master Casey Jones tenders?))*** OK,..I can see running new wires to the center of the trucks, to avoid taking the caboose apart,..but I am confused about running the wire through a convenient or newly drilled hole. Run it to where? Looking at my only Casey Jones loco,..wires come through the front of the tender,..tender still needs to be taken apart to attach wires to trucks. I'm missing something here. Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15127	From: Ted Larson	Date: 10/22/2001
Subject: Dealers?

>>>There is not enough brick and mortar shops supplying S scale anyhow so go where you can get it, and if you want to save a buck or two go to the discounter, we are still selling product when you do, and that supports us, and if your chosen S dealer does not have it, ask him to get it. Your local dealer will most likely choose not to stock S products and quite truthfully many manufacturers will not sell to non stocking dealers or at least not give a them full dealer discount.<<<< My local hobby shop stocks much AF and Lionel along with the more common HO, N, etc. A few years ago when I started telling him that I'd like to be able to buy PacRail, SHS, and AM from him, he started ordering whatever SHS and AM that I asked for. After a while of doing that for me and others, he started stocking a few items, which makes those products visible to other customers. When mail-order discounters started becoming common for S products, he told me that he would give me a discount on anything that I special ordered, because he would like to have my business rather than having me go to the mail order discounters. The result is a win-win for everyone. ===== Ted Larson __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15128	From: Rick Evans	Date: 10/22/2001
Subject: Re: Dealers?

While in the local train store in my area,...I made a comment about a new "Harry Potter" train in HO. I said, "Nice train, to bad the wrong scale!" One of the owners (They know I'm a Flyer person), made a comment back, somethin' like, "Good luck finding anything like that in S!!". Not an exact quote, but you get the drift! This store deals in HO and N scale mainly,...some O (MTH) also. I began talking to them about quite a few of the new S offerings. I think I will take them down a SHS catalog so they can see what's out there in S. Just maybe,..they might stock some SHS or other!! One can only try! Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15129	From: Scott Holm	Date: 10/22/2001
Subject: Re: wire on 46' all plastic 630

For the purposes of this discussion they were talking about running the wires to the removable caboose light socket. As for the Casey Jones Tender, the wires that are soldered to the outside of the trucks would go up into the tender, out the hole in the front and would then be connected to the motor and reverse unit in the boiler, with no connection necessary inside the tender. --- Rick Evans <comic@...> wrote: > David wrote: > ***((I am assuming the wires are soldered to the top of the truck > rivits, > and have come loose there--not having dug mine out, is this > possible?))*** > > Chris wrote: > ***((Must be. Would it not be possible to run a new wire to the > center of the > truck, outside the body, then pass it through a convenient or newly > drilled > hole adjacent the truck, ala Pike Master Casey Jones tenders?))*** > > OK,..I can see running new wires to the center of the trucks, to > avoid taking the caboose apart,..but I am confused about running the > wire through a convenient or newly drilled hole. Run it to where? > Looking at my only Casey Jones loco,..wires come through the front of > > the tender,..tender still needs to be taken apart to attach wires to > trucks. > > I'm missing something here. > > > Rick. > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15130	From: Rick Evans	Date: 10/22/2001
Subject: Re: wire on 46' all plastic 630

Scott Holm wrote: **(( As for the Casey Jones Tender, the wires that are soldered to the > outside of the trucks would go up into the tender, out the hole in the > front and would then be connected to the motor and reverse unit in the > boiler, with no connection necessary inside the tender.))*** My Casey Jones is not hooked up that way. Seems the wires are connected inside the tender. I don't see any wires hooked to the outside trucks. And it is a Pikemaster. Hmmmmmm...... Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15131	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 10/22/2001
Subject: Re: Ideas to repair wire on 46' all plastic 630

Is there a hole in the bottom that looks like maybe a 3/4" diameter with a rectangle running across it? If so, you can mount a bulb in a standard AF light fixture. AF used the same light fixture in all their illuminated cas and I think it's available as a part. The other thing you need is to change to the wheelsets that are metal on one side to pick up power from the track, also available as parts. Solder wires from the truck rivets to the light socket. If it's a plastic bottom with no hole you can drill a hole and either hot glue or silicon caulk in a Radio shack lamp and socket. A 14V bulb should be about right. jackress@... wrote: > > This is my first attempt to post anything, so kindly bear with me. > I have an all red-plastic 1946- 630 Reading caboose that the wires > have become disconnected. This 630 is in very nice condition, with > only the 46 warp thing going on. There are no breaks, or cracks. Has > all the steps, and catwalk ends. I know it's not worth a whole lot, > but that's not my concern. My concern is that it is a nice piece, > that could be a little nicer with some internal illumination. I'm > just not sure about the best way to get inside, past the glue that > holds it together. I've had it for years, thinking that at some point > I'd find a proper solution to the problem. I believe in waiting for > the best solution, as opposed to forcing less than pleasent results. > I'm not a high roller Flyer guy with unlimited funds. I'm just an > owner operator type who can appreciate, but cannot afford the finner > things that others are fortunate enough to have. Good for them, good > for me if I get a chance to view them. I'd bet I have just as much > fun with American Flyer as the next guy/girl. I enjoy nothing more > than finding an abused piece of Flyer and bringing it back to near > original operating condition. I make many of my own replacement > parts, when the parts required are not available elseware, and have > from time to time been able to help out others. But now I'm the one > seeking some help, and or advise. I enjoy reading about other > people's ideas and fixes, many of which I've been there done that > type. Always keeping in mind to be respectful of each persons way > about doing things. There are many roads that can lead to your > destination, the road you choose is up to the one driving. Thanks for > being here. Cheers, > Jack Larson > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15132	From: Bob	Date: 10/22/2001
Subject: York Findings..........

Dear Group, I went to my first "York" show on Friday with my friend Dave , who is also a big A.F./S-Gauge nut like me.My jaw dropped to the ground when I seen how many dealers and how large of a show it is !!I would have to bet that there was a least 40-50 tables selling A.F. items and parts.I never been to a train show with so much S-Gauge items in my life.The highlite of my day had to have been when I met and shook hands with a Mr. Bruce Mansen ! For all of you non- A.F. fans, he's the gentleman in the orginal A.F. video that was produced in the early 90's.He's the one that has the huge layout in his garage,and has all of those older toys as well. He hasn't aged a bit !! It was quite an honor to meet him.By the way he also likes the new S.H.S. and A.M. things too.I really am going to have a had time going to my local train shows knowing that I'll only see about three-to-four tables of S-Gauge items there. I did get a couple of good deals there as well.An older non -Flyer tunnell ( I think it was made for O-Gauge) for $15.00 .A video tape of the American Flyer Boys Club made I think in 1951.Which includes all six episodes.A real nice #24633 A.F. caboose in excellent condition for $55.00.A real nice A.F.#561 Billboard,the one that makes the diesel roar in excellent condition for $40.00. And a lot of little parts that are hard to get locally.I also seen Mike from M.T.H. there, but I didn't get to talk to him.I did find out that their version of the A.F.#787 will be out in about 6 weeks.I also notice that their coming out with a tin-plate looking crane that looks a lot like an old Lionel crane.One other thing that I noticed is that I seen a lot of old Flyer things that I don't see around my part of the country.For example I see a few #772 checker board water tower with a plastic shack as opposed to the metal shack versions that I'm used to seeing.Loading baggage platforms with different color bases...and so on.All in all I had a really great time and I'm looking forward to the show in April. Take care.........Bob S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15133	From: Tim Brown	Date: 10/22/2001
Subject: Food for thought

Hi all, Has anyone who is involved on a high level with model railroading ever tried to get funding for a PBS weekly series on scale model railroading? Seems to me if there is room for woodworking, home remodeling, antiquing and gardening, there could be interest in model railroading as well. Weekly installments could show a Chris or a Paul completing a section of benchwork, scenery, repairs, kit-bashing, etc. How cool would that be? Totally, I think (in my humble opinion). Of course, the series would have to be more broadly based than 'S' scale. Perhaps scale model railroading would be broad enough. The principles of scenicing, etc. are the same across scales. Just my thoughts... Regards, Tim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15134	From: Scott Brown	Date: 10/22/2001
Subject: Sunday night Chat

Hmmmm I just did a test run to see if I could get into the chat room. I didn't have any problems at all. Of course no one was there to chat with, but hey, it works. Yahoo is a strange beast and my regular Yahoo chat instant messanger screws up on a regular basis. Wish I could offer some help to those that can't seem to log into the sunday night chat.It worked for me. Scott Brown [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15135	From: Don Thompson	Date: 10/22/2001
Subject: Re: Which three car reefer sets?

Dear Rance, After we sold out of the single NWX (green & yellow), PFE (orange, single logo) and BREX reefers in just a few weeks. We had many more requests for these cars. When we reviewed the database, I notice that a higher percentage of our supporters purchased both numbers. We decided to offer three new numbers and in the case of the BREX, we added Colorado Southern and Fort Worth and Denver versions as three car sets. I had wanted to make Fruit Growers Express, but was unsure of the demand of these ubiquitous car. I guess I was too much of a coward to offer 300 single cars (Mike's could make a pretty good argument over why we do not need over stock on these), so I took a gamble on 100 three cars sets. Yes, we only made 100 of each of the above. You can see these at: http://www.showcaseline.com/3carrwoodeneefersets_in_stock.html Don Rance and Bente Velapoldi wrote: > Hi Don: > Which are the 3 car reefer sets? > Rance > > Don Thompson wrote: > > > As you can imagine, we have been busy with the move to the new, > > larger warehouse (suite 7C & 7D) a few units from our home of the last > > two years (suite 2C). Added to the fun of moving, we are happy to > > announce that the container with our new Reefers, reefer 3 car sets, new > > rebuilts and special cars for American Flyer Boys Club, The Baltimore > > Area AF club, Port Lines and RSSVP arrived on Wednesday, the day before > > we left for York. We will be shipping all advanced orders starting > > tomorrow. -- -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15136	From: Dan Brindell	Date: 10/22/2001
Subject: Re: Food for thought

You may have a point there. I think the worst show I ever saw on PBS was "Sew Many Quilts," which of course was about making quilts. If there's room for a show about that, there's room for a show about model railroading. It seems like most of the the shows are produced by a local station, then picked up by the PBS network. So you might contact your local station and see if they are interested. I'm sure it helps to bring your own financial sponsors. Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Brown" <Timboy@...> To: "S-List" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, October 22, 2001 7:22 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Food for thought > Hi all, > > Has anyone who is involved on a high level with model railroading ever tried to get funding for a PBS weekly series on scale model railroading? Seems to me if there is room for woodworking, home remodeling, antiquing and gardening, there could be interest in model railroading as well. Weekly installments could show a Chris or a Paul completing a section of benchwork, scenery, repairs, kit-bashing, etc. How cool would that be? Totally, I think (in my humble opinion). Of course, the series would have to be more broadly based than 'S' scale. Perhaps scale model railroading would be broad enough. The principles of scenicing, etc. are the same across scales. > > Just my thoughts... > > Regards, > Tim > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15137	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 10/22/2001
Subject: York musings

Although things got off to a chilly start, the weather improved remarkably during the course of the week. As a kind of parallel to the weather, the pre-York "bandit" meets were comparatively weak in the selection of Flyer offered for sale, however, York Friday opened up with a lot of new blood with a good deal of nice S gauge Flyer and a surprising amount of prewar "Chicago" Flyer available. There were few genuine "Oh, wows!" but a lot of nice Gilbert S gauge was to be had for those trying to build collections and layouts -- at a price, of course. Attendance was at about 16,000, according to the TCA, as posted on the Toytrains board this morning. Picked up a few interesting vintage Gilbert goodies for my collection during the proceedings (surprise!). The "boys" from SHS were set up for business, as usual, in Purple Hall with the expanded line of wood side reefers previously announced here by them on S-Trains. The advanced production prototype of the Seaboard coaler was on display at the Lionel setup in White Hall. If it runs as well as it looks, this should be a fun reissue that is pretty faithful to the Gilbert original (can motor, though). During my discussion with Dick Maddox on Saturday morning, he said that Lionel was planning on offering a completely new steam engine for AF during the first half of 2002. Dick said that "it is time to bring American Flyer into this century" with a steam engine "that had the operational features of the (my) new Century Club 2 Niagara but not with quite that level of detail". This comment suggests the possibility of an AF engine with TMCC, Railsounds, electrocouplers, etc. He envisions the engine being "an operator's, not a collector's, piece". If done, it will be built by Korean Brass, which is the same company that does Lionel's current near-scale and scale O gauge steam engine offerings. The quotes are real -- but, let's hope that Lionel actually comes through. We'll see. York -- there's no substitute!!! RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15138	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 10/23/2001
Subject: Re: wire on 46' all plastic 630

I looked back at my Pikemaster locos and realized that I was the one who connected the pick up wire on the outside of the tender truck. I bought this particular engine combo with a broken rear truck and replaced it with a repro PM I picked up at a show. I brought the wire out a convenient hole in the tender floor and soldered it to the rivet. I believe that this might be the answer for this litle 630. Jack Larson indicates that this is a slightly warped operator piece, not a mint collectible, so I don't see a problem with drilling the chassis for a wire pass through. On my 630, the existing wire (there is only one as the other connection for the bulb is made through the metal chassis) comes through a hole next to the light. It is such a short distance to the truck that a wire could be neatly glued to the bottom of the hack with a loop near the truck and a loop near the bulb. When Jack says "all-plastic" does he mean the chassis as well??? I have not seen this, but if it is so, and both wires (there would have to be 2) must be replaced, then this would be the best method, I believe. The drilling through the floor plan would have taken the wire inside at a point just beyond the swing reach of the wheels and back out again to reach the center connector on the light socket. If indeed, the floor is plastic, then the second wire would pass through at a similar point abaft the other truck and come out the bulb hole. In operation, it would stay inside, as it would be soldered to the side of the threaded bulb socket. It is such a short distance, the two holes would be right next to each other. Still, it is a good way to manage the wire. All of this should neatly avoid disassembly and possible destruction of this piece. Jack said something else. He said: "I'm not a high roller Flyer guy with unlimited funds." Neither am I Jack. I would like to meet one, though. I'd get my daughter to marry him (if I had a daughter). Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15139	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/23/2001
Subject: Re: wire on 46' all plastic 630

Chris' solution should work, but in thinking about it, why put the center contact wire through the chassis at all? The wheelbase on cabooses (cabeese?) is so short anyway. There is already one hole, so run the wire to the socket side through it, and VOILA no extra holes. Also thinking a bit more; I doubt both wires are loose, use a meter and only replace the one that is! The plastic base was only used on the early '46 production. They are usually red, like the body, but I have seen a black one (Sorry, can't say where, I was just very surprised when I saw it). I suspect the warping started really early, or maybe they were too light, so the diecast base was used instead. Besides the plastic base, there's also the problem of the early narrow-shanked, non-weighted link couplers. . . . S David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15140	From: Hannon	Date: 10/23/2001
Subject: Chat Room Problems

This is the first time I was in on the chat. Paul walked me through it earlier in the week on-line. I was using Internet Explorer 5.0. I had absolutely no problems. As a first time, very wary user, what I did not do was: 1. Attempt to use the audio feature. 2. "Wave" at someone. 3. Initiate a side-room/private-room conversation. NetScape? God, I used to love(?) that program! But I just couldn't put up with the "bugginess" and the erratic behaviour of the later releases. Bob Hannon

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15141	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/23/2001
Subject: Re: Chat Room Problems--some suggestions/hints & invite!

Glad you made it, Bob! A few things about the chat: 1) DON'T use the audio feature--with any more than three people, it just becomes static, and it bounces some off the system (???? no one knows why, but it does this). 2) Go into the "preferences" area (click on the pencil icon above the text-writing window) and set your "auto-away" to something like 50 minutes; the default is 10, and that oftentimes 'bumps' you off if you're busy 'listening' to a thread and not posting. 3) Side chats (Private Message in Yahoo lingo) are done by double-clicking on the person's name in the "chatters list". They don't seem to effect the main chat, but it is confusing to try to follow both at once! Last Sunday, it was the only way to communicate with some people who were there, but not connected. We suspect they were using Netscape, but again, it's YAHOO! -- AAAUGH! You can move the private dialog box around your screen so it doesn't cover the main chat texts. 4) Emotions, the ! icon, can be sent to the group, or an individual. Click on the ! icon, a new window will open between the chatters list and the text window. Scroll through and click on one, then click the "emote user' button to send the emotion. If you haven't clicked on any chatter name, it will send the emotion to the room, if you click on a chatter first before the "emote" button, it will direct that emotion to that user. i.e.: "Wave" will say "<your name> waves at the room" but if you click Traindavid first, it will say "<your name> waves at Traindavid" (BTW, that's my Yahoo ID) 5) some of us miss the old "XX slaps YY around a bit with a large trout" emotion that the old site had (it was the only emotion you could use there). So if you note references to a trout, or Large Trout, it's only some of us trying to be funny. Also note that Rick E. (Bassflyer) is always running his BBQ during chat, so we'll razz him about that. One of these days I'm gonna drop in on him, his posts make me hungry--Chat is on about my dinner time-priorities!! 6) If you're not there, you're square! (or a three-railer??) :-) S'incerely, David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15142	From: Bob	Date: 10/23/2001
Subject: Control Button......

Dear Group, Does anyone know if an old Gilbert controll button can be used to operate the new Lionel Sawmill ?? Please post any and all answers. Thanks..Bob

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15143	From: David A. Highfield	Date: 10/23/2001
Subject: Insurance coverage

Aside from placing a rider on a homeowner insurance policy, has anyone had experience with insuring your trains, making use of a special policy or company? Thanks, Dave Highfield

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15144	From: jfrodgers@rpb-law.com	Date: 10/23/2001
Subject: Re: Food for thought

--- In S-Trains@y..., "Tim Brown" <Timboy@a...> wrote: > Hi all, > > Has anyone who is involved on a high level with model railroading ever tried to get funding for a PBS weekly series on scale model railroading? Seems to me if there is room for woodworking, home remodeling, antiquing and gardening, there could be interest in model railroading as well. Weekly installments could show a Chris or a Paul completing a section of benchwork, scenery, repairs, kit-bashing, etc. How cool would that be? Totally, I think (in my humble opinion). Of course, the series would have to be more broadly based than 'S' scale. Perhaps scale model railroading would be broad enough. The principles of scenicing, etc. are the same across scales. > > Just my thoughts... > > Regards, > Tim > > You might try calling your local cable access channel. They are starving for programming and the use of the equipment is free. They'll even train you and sometimes even supply students to run the cameras. After polishing the product locally, you can take it to PBS. Just a thought. John Rodgers > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15145	From: jfrodgers@rpb-law.com	Date: 10/23/2001
Subject: Re: York and new layout

--- In S-Trains@y..., "Steve Roche" <srochepe@h...> wrote: > Went to my first York last week. Wow, showed considerable restraint due to > the fact I had only a carry on bag and did not know how airport security > would react to a bag full of trains. Did make the mistake of going to a big > trade show in Chicago the day before I went to York. Talk about sore. > I got inspired about putting up a semi-permanent layout. In the past I > would only set up a Xmas layout. However, my trains have exceeded the > allowable space (my wife won't let me move living room furniture out) > I'm looking for tips on setting up the first layout. I have 200+ pcs of > AF track most with roadbed, 5 pr switches, two 30B transformers, bunch of > accessories and action cars and 15 AF locos. > I live in SE Texas with no basements hence the layout will be located in > the garage and probably dormant in the summer. Any help or guidance is > greatly appreciated. Steve I have the same problem and have taken over the garage. The problems are that it gets hot and humid there in the summer and cold in the winter. Not the best environment for track. So, you have to clean the track more often. You've got plenty of track to do what you want to do. I would suggest a single outside oval for fast running. No switches. I would probably add an inside oval with switches to a yard or multiple sidings for your accessories. This is all dependant on the mix of straight and curved track. You need to either get a good track planning software or lay it out, eyeball it, change it, eyeball it again until you're happy with it. Trust me in a year or so, you'll decide to change everything all over again. But that's the fun of it. John Rodgers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15146	From: Don Thompson	Date: 10/23/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: Which three car reefer sets?

Dear Thomas, Future paint schemes are dependent on the sales of the current offerings. But, if the second run is any indication, it may not be that far in the future. Do you have any photos of these cars that you could share? I have the CGW photo. Don Thomas Baker wrote: > Dear Don, > > It's probably a long time before you offer the refrigerator cars in a new > set of paint schemes. You probably are, however, planning for the > future. Let me suggest three cars that could be offered in a three-pack > unit. Have you considered the Soo Line with the black Dollar sign > emblem, the Minneapolis & St Louis [not entirely sure here whether the > M&StL had any refrigerator cars with the fishbelly underframe. That > would need checking], the Chicago Great Western [I refer to the earlier > yellow and black scheme with the "Corn Belt Route" emblem, not to the > version put out by Accurail and marketed by 5th avenue Train Shops with > the so-called "Lucky Strike" emblem.] Another possibility would be the > Milwaukee Road herald with the full company name Chicago, Milwaukee, St. > Paul & Pacific. > > I know I have suggested four because I am not sure which cars had the > fishbelly underframe. I know for a fact that the CGW did, and one is > pictured in the Morning Sun CGW equipment book. I am referring, however, > to a time when the emblem was on one side of the doors and the full > lettering of the leasor was on the other side. All of the above > companies leased cars from the Union Refrigerator Transit Lines. These > cars would certainly be a colorful addition to the offerings. > > Tom -- -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15147	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/23/2001
Subject: Re: York and new layout

Hmm, John wrote: "You've got plenty of track to do what you want to do. " based on Steve R. report that he has 200+ pieces of AF track. Hmmm, I have 1200+ pieces (not with roadbed, however!)--I was afraid that might not be enough! Hmm, maybe I'm hoarding??? Of course, I still don't know how much space I will have for the layout, first we have to find the house to move into (that we can afford)--or else this house has to lose the "guest bedroom" which is currently serving as the "Train and other Stuff" warehouse! The Garage, in this area at least, is too HOT in the summer, and too HUMID in the winter--besides Linda parks her car there, and that doesn't leave enough room (not to mention the Model T that resides there too.). Back to the livingroom "Christmas Tree" layout (minus the tree right now). S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15148	From: Rick Evans	Date: 10/23/2001
Subject: Too much track...???

"David Dewey" wrote: **((Hmmm, I have 1200+ pieces (not with roadbed, however!)--I was afraid that might not be enough! Hmm, maybe I'm hoarding???))** Well,..I'm sure it is better to have TO much track and not need it, rather than NOT enough track and need it!!!!! Hmmm...never counted all my track,..another project after I finish taking down my garage layout!! Oh heck,..I'll start now! Let's see,...14 pieces of track in my fall layout,...then there is THIS box full,...and some still on the garage layout,...and...... Rick "still countin" Evans.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15149	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/23/2001
Subject: Re: Too much track...???

Rick, If it helps your counting, you can fit about 320 curves or 384 straights in an apple box. Ooops, I just let my storage system secret out! S' David "too many boxes" Dewey

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15150	From: jfrodgers@rpb-law.com	Date: 10/23/2001
Subject: Re: York and new layout

--- In S-Trains@y..., "David Dewey" <djdewey@c...> wrote: > Hmm, > John wrote: "You've got plenty of track to do what you want > to do. " based on Steve R. report that he has 200+ pieces of AF track. > Hmmm, I have 1200+ pieces (not with roadbed, however!)--I was afraid that > might not be enough! Hmm, maybe I'm hoarding??? Of course, I still don't > know how much space I will have for the layout, first we have to find the > house to move into (that we can afford)--or else this house has to lose the > "guest bedroom" which is currently serving as the "Train and other Stuff" > warehouse! The Garage, in this area at least, is too HOT in the summer, and > too HUMID in the winter--besides Linda parks her car there, and that doesn't > leave enough room (not to mention the Model T that resides there too.). > Back to the livingroom "Christmas Tree" layout (minus the tree right > now). > S' > David D. Even with 200+ he will probably be able to make due. That's half the fun. At 10 inches per piece, let's see that's 2000+ inches or 167 feet of track. For a mere 8x8 oval, he'd use about 32 feet. That's plenty of room for getting one's spouse plenty angry. Trust me, I know. John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15151	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 10/23/2001
Subject: Roar units with an on/off switch

Did a on/off switch for Diesel Roar only come on 5-digit models of roar-equipped ACG AF b-units, or did some 3 digit models have a switch too? The wiring diagrams I have are labeled 471/485 and they show an on/off switch, but I found a 485 at York with Roar and it did not have an on/off switch for its Roar unit. On the other hand, all 5 digit models I looked at had one, including a 21720 (the Brinks truck was parked outside in case anyone actually bought it). Thanks again for your help. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15152	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 10/23/2001
Subject: Re: Food for thought

Tim Brown wrote: Has anyone who is involved on a high level with model railroading ever tried to get funding for a PBS weekly series on scale model railroading? Seems to me if there is room for woodworking, home remodeling, antiquing and gardening, there could be interest in model railroading as well. Weekly installments could show a Chris or a Paul completing a section of benchwork, scenery, repairs, kit-bashing, etc. How cool would that be? Totally, I think (in my humble opinion). Of course, the series would have to be more broadly based than 'S' scale. Perhaps scale model railroading would be broad enough. The principles of scenicing, etc. are the same across scales. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, Kalmbach had a series called "Tracks Ahead" some years ago, that covered mostly the real thing, but also had some model railroad content. I recall another program, who's name escapes me, from the 80's, that was sponsored by a hobby shop in Texas. As I recall it was moderately amateurish, and everything that wasn't a product from a certain brass importer (oddly enough, the very same hobby shop) was treated as junk. I think there may have been one or two other attempts at a show that I ran across while channel surfing. I apologize for not having a lot of details, but even though the Chicago area has two PBS stations, these programs appeared on the smaller station, and didn't seem to have a consistent time slot. This is not to say that the concept shouldn't be tried again, but it will take the right balance of financing, content and production values to make it interesting to the public. Rich G. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15153	From: garymccullah@usa.net	Date: 10/23/2001
Subject: Food for Thought

A way to get your foot in the door is to get on local or community access television. In most instances, all you would have to provide are the material you are going to use(i.e. track, cars, locos, buildings, scenery). Everything else is provided. Some CAT operations are desperate for programming and might be willing to do extra just to have something to fill the time. I would think that this is how most PBS shows actually got started. Gary

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15154	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 10/23/2001
Subject: Re: York musings

If this new A/F steamer is like Lionel, does that mean it will run out of the box or pieces will run out of the box??? Just curious. Jim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15155	From: SMITTY@tir.com	Date: 10/23/2001
Subject: (no subject)

Gary wrote: A way to get your foot in the door is to get on local or community access television. In most instances, all you would have to provide are the material you are going to use(i.e. track, cars, locos, buildings, scenery). Everything else is provided. Some CAT operations are desperate for programming and might be willing to do extra just to have something to fill the time. I would think that this is how most PBS shows actually got started. Gary I would second this notion big-time......locally there is an individual that's a die-hard railfan and video tapes just about everything imaginable, he's got the local CATV giving him access three or four spots per week, and his productions are not all that slick. A well done, well received program would certainly get your foot in the door with the regular PBS stations. Tracks Ahead was pretty much a proto-type based program, but in the Detroit area there was a tie-in modeller program that came on it's heels, but it was so long ago, I couldn't give you any specifics. Seems like there were "clinics" on building terrain, airbrushing clouds onto backdrops and that sort of thing. Regard"S", Smitty

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15156	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 10/23/2001
Subject: Re: Roar units with an on/off switch

In a message dated 10/23/01 5:36:48 PM, david_horn@... writes: << Did a on/off switch for Diesel Roar only come on 5-digit models of roar-equipped ACG AF b-units, or did some 3 digit models have a switch too? >> I have a 1956 No. 485 with no switch and a 1957 No. 485 with. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15157	From: Tom Stolte	Date: 10/23/2001
Subject: New decals from Oddballs Decals - N, HO, S & O scales

660 ACFX, Williams Bio-Engery, 50' tank car. (4-01) Painted antique white. Atlas tank car. Black, red, white & blue lettering. Set will letter one car. 661 PTLX, FAR-MAR-CO, 18 rib covered hopper. (5-74) Painted orange. Intermountain kit. Black, gold, white & brown lettering. Set will letter one car. 662 WCDX, FAR-MAR-CO, ACF 3 bay covered hopper. (2-74) Painted orange. Altas kit. Black, gold, white & brown lettering. Set will letter one car. 663 MKT caboose. (1940's) Painted Sloan yellow. Any kit will do. Black lettering. The N scale sets will letter 2 or 3 cars. S & O scale will letter 1 car. All the above decals refer to HO scale kits on the market. These will also work for other scales. Just pick a car of your choice in the other scales. Prefix numbers for N scale 60-. HO scale 87-. S scale 64-. O scale 48-. N & HO scale retail price $3.25. S & O scale retail price $6.50. These should be in your favorite hobby shop within the next month or so. If ordering direct, please include $1.75 for p&h. Up to date catalog N, HO, S & O scale, $6.00, plus $1.75 for p&h. You buy this catalog once, then every 3 months or so, send me a LSSAE for updates. Fits in a 3 ring binder. --- --- Tom Stolte - Oddballs Decals N, HO, S & O Scale Model Railroad Decals 26550 227th Street; McLouth, Kansas 66054 Phone: 913-727-6649 - oddballdecal@... Web site http://www.oddballsdecals.com/ Subscribe: OddballsDecals-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Missouri Pacific Photos Web Page: http://www.trainweb.org/mopac/ NMRA Member #121756 Subscribe: MOPAC-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15158	From: Kimball, Bob (CH)	Date: 10/23/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1182

Steve, It is time to live. We all did the tree, and then did the garage with the board on pulleys to put it away on the ceiling in the summer. Then we sold the wife's car, and then the boat to finally have our own garage to run trains. Don't do that - you only risk severe personal harm. Build a train room - a big one! I love mine and my wife, she drives her car and the kids help build the layout. regards, Bob > ---------- > From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com[SMTP:S-Trains@yahoogroups.com] > Reply To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 4:29 AM > To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1182 > > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 07:51:29 -0500 > From: "Steve Roche" <srochepe@...> > Subject: York and new layout > > Went to my first York last week. Wow, showed considerable restraint due to > the fact I had only a carry on bag and did not know how airport security > would react to a bag full of trains. Did make the mistake of going to a > big > trade show in Chicago the day before I went to York. Talk about sore. > I got inspired about putting up a semi-permanent layout. In the past I > would only set up a Xmas layout. However, my trains have exceeded the > allowable space (my wife won't let me move living room furniture out) > I'm looking for tips on setting up the first layout. I have 200+ pcs > of > AF track most with roadbed, 5 pr switches, two 30B transformers, bunch of > accessories and action cars and 15 AF locos. > I live in SE Texas with no basements hence the layout will be located > in > the garage and probably dormant in the summer. Any help or guidance is > greatly appreciated. Steve > > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15159	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/23/2001
Subject: Re: Food for thought

I've tried to pitch this idea to a few video guys out here (if you ever see the video "Itgo and the Time Train" my AF is in it, and I also play two of the characters) but so far no $$$ to support it. I believe "Tracks Ahead" is still in production. My idea combines modeling and real stuff to provide the general mix necessary for a wide audience. I still think it's marketable, but how??? S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15160	From: Walt Danylak	Date: 10/24/2001
Subject: Re: Roar units with an on/off switch

--- In S-Trains@y..., david_horn@b... wrote: Did a on/off switch for Diesel Roar only come on 5-digit models of roar-equipped ACG AF b-units, or did some 3 digit models have a switch too? ... At least some of the 3-digit models had the on/off switch. I had a 480 Silver Flash B unit that had the switch. I don't recall the 478 SF B unit, the 471 ATSF B unit or the 491 NP B unit having the switch. Walt

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15161	From: David	Date: 10/24/2001
Subject: Re: Roar units with an on/off switch

The earlier units to come with Roar had no switch. The switch was added later because of complaints that the noise got on peoples nerves, and they were disconnecting the feature, or asking their service station to disconnect it for them.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15162	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 10/24/2001
Subject: Re: Roar units with an on/off switch

I cannot imagine that diesel roar came without a switch. When I was a kid, I ran my Santa Fe ABA's for two Christmases before I found the switch and first turned it ON! What a racket! I ran with it on for a while but it annoyed even me, a ten year old. And my mother, she was getting real sorry that she bought that train set for me. I had (and still have) the 470-471-473 combination, and it most definitely had the switch. Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15163	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 10/24/2001
Subject: Re: Food for thought

Tim Brown wrote: >Weekly installments could show a Chris or a Paul >completing a section of benchwork, scenery, repairs, kit-bashing, etc Who, ME??? A show about my layout would have to be a part of "This Old House". We are excavating and moving tons of dirt at the moment in an attempt to add a kitchen onto the old homestead. I am paying extra to go with a full basement under the addition so my empire has some elbow room. My wife and I have actually had serious discussions about having an outside leg of the layout including penetration of the cellar wall, helixes to move the trains up and down and weatherproof track, weighing the value of Gargraves Stainless against Nickle Silver from SHS. She loves the garden railroad concept and how can I deny her? I would love to videotape the building process. I do that (video camera) for a living. Of course, building and shooting, a man can't serve two masters. Still, I can get help. I agree that shooting a toytrains/model railroad show that covers a wide swath of the hobby would be a good idea with some solid, though limited, market potential. Funding for such a project could be provided by manufacturers of model RR gear in exchange for a "Funding provided by:" end tag, complete with logo and product pictures, phone numbers and website addresses, and also by careful in-show product placement and verbal mentions. This cannot work if it is all "S" gauge. Sorry, but you cannot afford to lose the largest part of the audience by ignoring HO and 3-railers and everyone else. The scenicking and benchwork applies to all scales, of course, but there will always be some parochialism that must be bridged. Just think how you all feel about Model Railroader. Nice mag, but it's for HO and N. There are S and 0 articles and general cross-platform info, but it is, after all, an HO and N publication. CTT, Classic Toy Trains, has Flyer and Marx, but some people still refer to it as CLT, "Classic Lionel Trains". A TV program needs to avoid alienating sectors of its audience. If it stays broad enough while promoting its own agenda beneath the surface, it could be a success. I would like to be a part of that effort if any of you guys are serious about taking it on and not just jawboning. I can get the shots, write the scripts and design the lighting and the look of the show. I can edit and title and make a professional presentation out of it. I need a salesman, a schmoozer who knows how to talk people into parting with their money, products and facilities in order to make it work. We could start with some layouts in one geographical area to get rolling. We can also videotape at a trainshow and in train stores. I see the push of the show being to demonstrate how big and widespread and available this hobby is to all the public who still, to this day, think that it all died in 1966 with the end of Lionel post-war production. If you don't think the public has no clue, read this. At York, my wife and I watched the MTH demonstration in their tent. Using command control, the operator backed a helper steamer down a grade, hooked up to a waiting train, added a second train with a diesel behind the first, blew the whistle and moved everybody forward up the hill. When it was over, a middle aged gentleman, wearing a TCA Member's badge, leaned over and asked me, "Do you know how he did that . . . you know, got one engine to wait while the other backed-up and then hooked 'em all together and made them run forward, all on the same track?" The guy had NEVER heard of command control, TMCC, DCC or anything like it. And this guy was a current operator! So, the point of a show, I think, is to make the public aware that all the cool stuff that we, as insiders to this hobby, take as a given is available for general consumption. Remember, the first toy train era was fueled by the general public who bought the merchandise as toys for their kids. The second toy train era, which is greater in diversity, technology and in sheer gross sales, is being fueled by nostalgic hobbiests who once were those kids. If we do anything, we must get the attention of the general public and point their credit cards in this direction. The money and the future are locked up in the kids. Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15164	From: louis glumac	Date: 10/24/2001
Subject: FOR SALE,

hi,clearing out extra stuff slowly here,always give first chance to people on here, old goodshape black tie track $1, also short sections , cross over-3$, 581 bridge vg-15$, 695 reverse loop relays 60$,single switch control-25$,759a E- 45$ thanks,i hope no one minds me posting here,,,, if some do let me know and i will stop, bye. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15165	From: Scott Brown	Date: 10/24/2001
Subject: Re: Food for thought

I don't remember which list I got this from. It may have been this one, but here is the web address for a TV show out of Pa. that you can also view on the web. Kinda boring ,but hey, they tried. And it's on the web too. It may just give someone an idea. http://www.cardinalvp.com/traintime/times.html Scott Brown Atlantic Coast S Gaugers Washington & Old Dominion Division [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15166	From: John Bandstra	Date: 10/24/2001
Subject: Re: [showcaseline] Re: [S-Scale] Re: Which three car reefer sets?

Don, I also support the idea of a M&StL car. M&StL information can be found at: http://www.eldora.net/lyndon/mstlfan.html with modeling pictures at: http://www.eldora.net/lyndon/propst/index.html John --- Don Thompson <robin@...> wrote: > Dear Thomas, > Future paint schemes are dependent on the sales > of the current > offerings. But, if the second run is any > indication, it may not be that far > in the future. Do you have any photos of these cars > that you could share? > I have the CGW photo. > Don > > Thomas Baker wrote: > > > Dear Don, > > > > It's probably a long time before you offer the > refrigerator cars in a new > > set of paint schemes. You probably are, however, > planning for the > > future. Let me suggest three cars that could be > offered in a three-pack > > unit. Have you considered the Soo Line with the > black Dollar sign > > emblem, the Minneapolis & St Louis [not entirely > sure here whether the > > M&StL had any refrigerator cars with the fishbelly > underframe. That > > would need checking], the Chicago Great Western [I > refer to the earlier > > yellow and black scheme with the "Corn Belt Route" > emblem, not to the > > version put out by Accurail and marketed by 5th > avenue Train Shops with > > the so-called "Lucky Strike" emblem.] Another > possibility would be the > > Milwaukee Road herald with the full company name > Chicago, Milwaukee, St. > > Paul & Pacific. > > > > I know I have suggested four because I am not sure > which cars had the > > fishbelly underframe. I know for a fact that the > CGW did, and one is > > pictured in the Morning Sun CGW equipment book. I > am referring, however, > > to a time when the emblem was on one side of the > doors and the full > > lettering of the leasor was on the other side. > All of the above > > companies leased cars from the Union Refrigerator > Transit Lines. These > > cars would certainly be a colorful addition to the > offerings. > > > > Tom > > -- -- Don Thompson > S Helper Service Inc. > http://www.showcaseline.com > 1.800.465.0303 > New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars > are now shipping! > http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15167	From: The Reis's	Date: 10/24/2001
Subject: Re: (unknown)

There is a program like that now on Seattle / King County public access channel 29 or 77 (depends on cable company) that runs videos of train museums or general trains. I think it is on at 5PM Thursdays. That's usually before I get home from work. (I know, use the VCR.) But anyway It is the same idea, basically a no charge public access and not necessarily the best quality video. Now the Monday night vintage Car show has exceptional video. Just some thoughts. Eric Kenmore, Washington. -----Original Message----- From: SMITTY@... [mailto:SMITTY@...] Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2001 6:04 PM To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [S-Trains] (unknown) Gary wrote: A way to get your foot in the door is to get on local or community access television. In most instances, all you would have to provide are the material you are going to use(i.e. track, cars, locos, buildings, scenery). Everything else is provided. Some CAT operations are desperate for programming and might be willing to do extra just to have something to fill the time. I would think that this is how most PBS shows actually got started. Gary I would second this notion big-time......locally there is an individual that's a die-hard railfan and video tapes just about everything imaginable, he's got the local CATV giving him access three or four spots per week, and his productions are not all that slick. A well done, well received program would certainly get your foot in the door with the regular PBS stations. Tracks Ahead was pretty much a proto-type based program, but in the Detroit area there was a tie-in modeller program that came on it's heels, but it was so long ago, I couldn't give you any specifics. Seems like there were "clinics" on building terrain, airbrushing clouds onto backdrops and that sort of thing. Regard"S", Smitty S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15168	From: TED R LARSON	Date: 10/25/2001
Subject: auto rack

Here's a fun web page. SP flats, including a bi level auto rack. Corvair mini-bus load. http://www.snowcrest.net/photobob/flat1.html Mark T. Evans Anaheim, CA ===== Forwarded by Ted Larson

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15169	From: TED R LARSON	Date: 10/25/2001
Subject: clip-art

Here's an interesting site: http://www.ribbonrail.com/art/index.html Ted Larson We ask that God Bless America; Let our actions be worthy of those Blessings. ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15170	From: Rick Evans	Date: 10/25/2001
Subject: Where to buy boxes...??

Where might one find CHEAP boxes to pack individual rolling stock, etc.? I believe someone is making repro AF boxes,..anyone know how to contact and the cost? I checked with a local mailing store, and no boxes the right size,..I had found two boxes at work (only two, darn it!) that worked pretty well, nice tabs for closing the box. For my #650-655 coaches and some Franklin coaches, I wrapped them in un-used newsprint and stored in cardboard wine boxes. Cardboard dividers made six compartments, and two coaches fit per compartment. And these wine boxes are just the right height. I mostly use the 18 Gal. Rubbermaid containers for all my train stuff, and could just wrap rolling stock in paper and place in container, but having them vertical in a box, such as the coaches, sure makes it a lot easier to see what's-what in the box! I do have a few oringinal boxes for some items. Most of those fit into one container. (Hmmmm....apple boxes,...Thanks Dewey!!) Never realized just how many vehicles I have on my little layout that I am taking down. I have a bunch of little bubble-wrap bags that vehicles fit into perfectly, then into a box. I have quite a few locos and rolling stock on shelves in cupboards in the garage, and need the shelf space for Plasticville buildings and things that I don't want to box up. Whew! Never realized I had collected soooo much stuff! That darn Ebay!! Well, off the computer and back to work in the garage! Have to go to my REAL job at 3pm!! Rick "Where did all this stuff come from?" Evans. And no Dewey,...I'm NOT thinning my collection, so don't bother driving down here!! Unless ya bring somethin' to BBQ!!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15171	From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com	Date: 10/25/2001
Subject: Re: Where to buy boxes...??

Rick, Ron Leveton Carries reproduction Red and White boxes in different sizes. I have a bunch of these I use so I don't mees up original boxes anymore. If you want blue and yellow boxes, I think Doug Peck is making these now. <A HREF="http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html">Click here: Port Lines Hobbies</A> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15172	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 10/25/2001
Subject: Re: Where to buy boxes...??

I don't know if there are problems with newspaper stock, but you don't want to wrap them directly in bubble wrap for long periods. the chemicals in the plastic attack the paint and plastic of the cars, etc. The best storage method is to wrap in acid free tissue paper (I got mine from Papermart.com) and then in the small size bubble wrap. I don't have boxes for most of my cars, and I just stack them in heavy weight cardboard boxes. I have all kinds of sizes, so they don't fit the greatest on shelves. Roger Petrella Franktown, CO Rick Evans wrote: > Where might one find CHEAP boxes to pack individual rolling stock, > etc.? I believe someone is making repro AF boxes,..anyone know how to > contact and the cost? > > I checked with a local mailing store, and no boxes the right size,..I > had found two boxes at work (only two, darn it!) that worked pretty > well, nice tabs for closing the box. > > For my #650-655 coaches and some Franklin coaches, I wrapped them in > un-used newsprint and stored in cardboard wine boxes. Cardboard > dividers made six compartments, and two coaches fit per compartment. > And these wine boxes are just the right height. > > I mostly use the 18 Gal. Rubbermaid containers for all my train stuff, > and could just wrap rolling stock in paper and place in container, > but having them vertical in a box, such as the coaches, sure makes it > a lot easier to see what's-what in the box! I do have a few oringinal > boxes for some items. Most of those fit into one container. > (Hmmmm....apple boxes,...Thanks Dewey!!) > > Never realized just how many vehicles I have on my little layout that > I am taking down. I have a bunch of little bubble-wrap bags that > vehicles fit into perfectly, then into a box. > > I have quite a few locos and rolling stock on shelves in cupboards in > the garage, and need the shelf space for Plasticville buildings and > things that I don't want to box up. Whew! Never realized I had > collected soooo much stuff! That darn Ebay!! > > Well, off the computer and back to work in the garage! Have to go to > my REAL job at 3pm!! > > Rick "Where did all this stuff come from?" Evans. > > And no Dewey,...I'm NOT thinning my collection, so don't bother > driving down here!! Unless ya bring somethin' to BBQ!! > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15173	From: Bill Lane	Date: 10/25/2001
Subject: is there an artist in the house?

Hi All, I am hoping that there is an artistically inclined person out there who would design a logo for us. My company, Pennsy S Models is about to deliver our first project, the X-29 in S Scale. You can go to our website www.pennsysmodels.com to get a flavor of who we are. The incorporation of the flavor of the PRR is a must. (Keystone etc.) It would be even better if your design were in an electronic form, i.e. JPEG etc. It is understood that there will be minimal to no compensation for this. You will hold no rights to the design. Your satisfaction would be knowing that your design would be adorning a website and the box ends of fine PRR brass models. I know that I am asking for a lot, but it does not hurt to ask. Thank You, Bill Lane Pennsy S Models

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15174	From: Dan Brindell	Date: 10/25/2001
Subject: Re: Where to buy boxes...??

In the Hobby Surplus catalog (www.hobbysurplus.com) they have plain white boxes in two sizes. Medium are 2 5/8 by 2 1/8 by 8. Large are 2 1/2 by 4 by 11 7/8. They sell them in bundles of 36, the medium bundle costs $22.99. That's 64 cents each. I don't think you will find any cheaper than that. But I haven't purchased any and can't vouch for the quality. Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Evans" <comic@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2001 2:13 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Where to buy boxes...?? > Where might one find CHEAP boxes to pack individual rolling stock, > etc.? I believe someone is making repro AF boxes,..anyone know how to > contact and the cost? > > I checked with a local mailing store, and no boxes the right size,..I > had found two boxes at work (only two, darn it!) that worked pretty > well, nice tabs for closing the box. > > For my #650-655 coaches and some Franklin coaches, I wrapped them in > un-used newsprint and stored in cardboard wine boxes. Cardboard > dividers made six compartments, and two coaches fit per compartment. > And these wine boxes are just the right height. > > I mostly use the 18 Gal. Rubbermaid containers for all my train stuff, > and could just wrap rolling stock in paper and place in container, > but having them vertical in a box, such as the coaches, sure makes it > a lot easier to see what's-what in the box! I do have a few oringinal > boxes for some items. Most of those fit into one container. > (Hmmmm....apple boxes,...Thanks Dewey!!) > > Never realized just how many vehicles I have on my little layout that > I am taking down. I have a bunch of little bubble-wrap bags that > vehicles fit into perfectly, then into a box. > > I have quite a few locos and rolling stock on shelves in cupboards in > the garage, and need the shelf space for Plasticville buildings and > things that I don't want to box up. Whew! Never realized I had > collected soooo much stuff! That darn Ebay!! > > Well, off the computer and back to work in the garage! Have to go to > my REAL job at 3pm!! > > > Rick "Where did all this stuff come from?" Evans. > > And no Dewey,...I'm NOT thinning my collection, so don't bother > driving down here!! Unless ya bring somethin' to BBQ!! > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15175	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 10/26/2001
Subject: CLASSIC TOY TRAINS

Yes, that is the name of a popular O Gauge magazine as many would say but the December, 2001 issue just arrived with a 6 page S Gauge article by NASG member Mark Edwards. Thank you Mark!. Mark has built a panelized Christmas layout using American Models track and featuring American Models and S Helper trains. Many of you have given up on CTT but this month is worth the $4.95 as it also has an article on an original Flyer Christmas Tree car #24558. So let's not give up on writing articles for Model Railroader and Classic Toy Trains. As SHS says on page 7 "The difference is in the detail". National Association of S Gaugers at: http://www.nasg.org North Penn S Gaugers (local Club) at: http://npsg3.homestead.com/files/npsgi.htm Paul Yorke's links: http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ Staying on the NPSG branchline of NASG track, Glenn NASG Secretary http://www.jesusiscoming.com ><///> ><///> ><///> ><///> ><///>

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15176	From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com	Date: 10/26/2001
Subject: New AF Repair Manual?

Greetings, I received my Hobby Surplus Train Repair Parts catalog yesterday. There is a NEW AF Factory Parts Department Comprehensiv Exploded Views and Parts Lists book. (Page 55) I have the Kalmbach book, and somewhwhere, the Barker (?) book. (Like I said, somewhere.) So now I'm confused as to my next purchase. Do I order the new book? Or do I order the AF Exploded Views and Parts Lists, loose leaf. Is one just a duplicate of the other? Is one more complete? The NEW book claims to list part numbers as well as sub-assemblies and their part numbers. Have any of you seen the new book? Did I hear about this from Bob Hannon? (Oh, I have his book, too. Just succesfully rewound a toasted 720A coil. Not as neat as the factory, but it works.) Sorry for so many questions. My fingers just keep rambling on. Thanks for any answers and suggestions. Bill Trefts ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15177	From: Scott Brown	Date: 10/26/2001
Subject: Duralube car

While shopping online I came across a 1:64 scale die cast racing car for Duralube for $5.99 + s/h. Here is the address : http://www.tvinventions.com/cgi-bin/800web/webmall/all_products.txml?cart=01J26npa.mjn&%71st=%365 If the link doesn't work, just go to www.tvinventions.com and do a search under Automotive. Scott Brown Atlantic Coast S Gaugers Washington & Old Dominion Division [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15178	From: joeawood@aol.com	Date: 10/26/2001
Subject: Train Storage

Old suitcases make good storage containers they are avalable at goodwill, yard sales,flea markets and other places that you buy used goods for a dollar or two. You can make dividers out of cardboard or plywood. I have a small one that I made with plywood dividers to carry my trains along when our club sets up our modular layout.. I roll the cars into wrapping and put them in the case and they are well protected to travel. Have fun run your trains. Joe Anderson [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15179	From: David	Date: 10/26/2001
Subject: E-Bay Auction of the Week

In light of recent depressing events, this should cheer us up each week. There are so many oddities and funny items on auction these days as a lot of folks jump on the internet bandwagon. If there is one, I'll post the funniest auction I saw that week each Friday so we can all have a chuckle. This weeks auction of choice is.... E-Bay #1655263353 You've gotta get this jewel!! Enjoy!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15180	From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT	Date: 10/26/2001
Subject: Re: E-Bay Auction of the Week

DUH!!!!!! LOOK AT HIS 642 BOX CAR TOO!!!!...BOB ----- Original Message ----- From: "David" <Dave0616@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, October 26, 2001 11:54 AM Subject: [S-Trains] E-Bay Auction of the Week > In light of recent depressing events, this should cheer us up each > week. There are so many oddities and funny items on auction these > days as a lot of folks jump on the internet bandwagon. If there is > one, I'll post the funniest auction I saw that week each Friday so we > can all have a chuckle. > > This weeks auction of choice is.... E-Bay #1655263353 > You've gotta get this jewel!! > > Enjoy! > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15181	From: Scott Holm	Date: 10/26/2001
Subject: New yahoo erector group

I've started a new group devoted to Erector sets. The name is erector. We now have two members! If you're interested, please join the group at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/erector __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15182	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 10/26/2001
Subject: Re: CLASSIC TOY TRAINS

I have been to Mark's home and photographed his layout. It is very cool. He had already signed an exclusive with CTT and asked me to not put the stuff on the web. I suspect that when the next issue hits the stands I will be free to publish my pictures. Is that OK Mark? ===== Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com Photography - Computers - Trains __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15183	From: Donald P. Abrams	Date: 10/26/2001
Subject: Wobbly Wheels

You can get your wheels 'factory straight' without wheel cups and a press. I use a drill press vise. It has channels on the outside edges to minimize wobble. Also only push them on a little bit at a time. Loosen the vise between squeezes and rotate the wheel/axle about 1/4 turn each time. Don

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15184	From: Walt Danylak	Date: 10/27/2001
Subject: Re: York musings - Lionel Steam Engine

--- In S-Trains@y..., rbubeck327@a... wrote: ... During my discussion with Dick Maddox on Saturday morning, he said that Lionel was planning on offering a completely new steam engine for AF during the first half of 2002. ... I sent an email to Lionel asking about the steam engine and received the following reply: "Sorry, but we have no information on this product at this time. Thank you for your understanding!" To me this would indicate that Lionel may be have plans for the engine. They did not deny the fact. Any comments? Walt

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15185	From: Don Thompson	Date: 10/27/2001
Subject: Re: York musings - Lionel Steam Engine

Dear Walt, This is real interesting news in light of the fact that at York Dick Maddox also announced he would be leaving Lionel by next July. Don Walt Danylak wrote: > --- In S-Trains@y..., rbubeck327@a... wrote: > ... During my discussion with Dick Maddox on Saturday morning, he > said that Lionel was planning on offering a completely new steam > engine for AF during the first half of 2002. ... > > I sent an email to Lionel asking about the steam engine and received > the following reply: > > "Sorry, but we have no information on this product at this time. > Thank you for your understanding!" > > To me this would indicate that Lionel may be have plans for the > engine. They did not deny the fact. Any comments? > > Walt -- -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15186	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 10/27/2001
Subject: Re: York musings - Lionel Steam Engine

Walt Danylak wrote: --- In S-Trains@y..., rbubeck327@a... wrote: ... During my discussion with Dick Maddox on Saturday morning, he said that Lionel was planning on offering a completely new steam engine for AF during the first half of 2002. ... I sent an email to Lionel asking about the steam engine and received the following reply: "Sorry, but we have no information on this product at this time. Thank you for your understanding!" To me this would indicate that Lionel may be have plans for the engine. They did not deny the fact. Any comments? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Anybody remember the SD40? There is a big difference between planning and doing here. Although the SD40 was planned by a past administration, and the current management appears to have a better "track record" in the O gauge world, I will have to remain skeptical until I can see, touch, feel, a new Flyer steam locomotive. If one makes it to the catalog stage, expect to see a photo of either an HO or O gauge product, probably heavily retouched or airbrushed, and not of a pilot or production model. I would hope however, that such a locomotive comes into existence, it would be up to Lionel's premiere offerings, and not just a clone of an O-27 unit, like the offset cupola caboose. Of course, don't expect it to be a 125 buck locomotive, more in the 400 to 500 dollar range, with Railsounds and TMCC, of course. Time will tell. Be seeing you... Rich G. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15187	From: Tim Brown	Date: 10/27/2001
Subject: Re: York musings - Lionel Steam Engine

Hi, It's been my observations in life that: 1. Management usually talks in opposites. So if you were told there weren't any plans, there are - they just don't want you to know it yet. 2. Rumors are usually true - at least to a degree. If you've 'heard through the grapevine' that Lionel is planning a Flyer release of a steam engine, they probably are. Just my humble opinion, I could be wrong. Later, Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: " Rich Gajnak" <rgajnak@...> To: "STrains" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2001 12:00 AM Subject: [S-Trains] Re: York musings - Lionel Steam Engine > > Walt Danylak wrote: > > > --- In S-Trains@y..., rbubeck327@a... wrote: > > ... During my discussion with Dick Maddox on Saturday morning, he > > said that Lionel was planning on offering a completely new steam > > engine for AF during the first half of 2002. ... > > > > I sent an email to Lionel asking about the steam engine and received > > the following reply: > > > > "Sorry, but we have no information on this product at this time. > > Thank you for your understanding!" > > > > To me this would indicate that Lionel may be have plans for the > > engine. They did not deny the fact. Any comments? > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------- > > Anybody remember the SD40? > > There is a big difference between planning and doing here. Although > the SD40 was planned by a past administration, and the current management > appears to have a better "track record" in the O gauge world, I will have > to remain skeptical until I can see, touch, feel, a new Flyer steam > locomotive. If one makes it to the catalog stage, expect to see a > photo of either an HO or O gauge product, probably heavily retouched or > airbrushed, and not of a pilot or production model. > > I would hope however, that such a locomotive comes into existence, it would > be up to Lionel's premiere offerings, and not just a clone of an O-27 unit, like > the offset cupola caboose. Of course, don't expect it to be a 125 buck > locomotive, more in the 400 to 500 dollar range, with Railsounds and TMCC, of > course. > > Time will tell. > > Be seeing you... > > Rich G. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15188	From: eddie rickenbacker	Date: 10/27/2001
Subject: E-Bay #1655263353

Laughed my butt off at the caboose-until i realized that it is the EXTREMELY RARE factory weathered, steps, railing, platform and roof sawed-off at one end variant.Geeze, guys, don't you know a gem when you see one? Hell, I'm going to bis $250,000 for this 'un. Yeah, and get a second mortgage for the same guy's "coal hopper" that looks just like a scrap 293 tender. i want to watch these and get the e-mail address of whoever is lame enough to bid/buy 'em!- john marganski __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15189	From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT	Date: 10/27/2001
Subject: Re: E-Bay #1655263353

I TO THOUGHT IT COULD BE A RARE....VERRRRRRRY RARE FACTORY PROTOTYPE OF THE WEATHERED AND WORN SERIES THEY WERE COMING OUT WITH...OR MAYBE A FACTORY ERROR.....HOWEVER...I ONCE HAD A lionel INCORRECTLY NUMBERED ENGINE.....THE FOLKS A YORK STANDARDS FELT IT WAS A GENUINE ERROR....BUT WHEN I SPOKE TO LENNY DEAN ABOUT IT..."NO QUESTION...ITS A FAKE....lionel NEVER MAKES MISTAKES!!!!!!!!" BOB ----- Original Message ----- From: "eddie rickenbacker" <druvnik@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2001 9:45 AM Subject: [S-Trains] E-Bay #1655263353 > Laughed my butt off at the caboose-until i realized > that it is the EXTREMELY RARE factory weathered, > steps, railing, platform and roof sawed-off at one end > variant.Geeze, guys, don't you know a gem when you see > one? Hell, I'm going to bis $250,000 for this 'un. > Yeah, and get a second mortgage for the same guy's > "coal hopper" that looks just like a scrap 293 tender. > i want to watch these and get the e-mail address of > whoever is lame enough to bid/buy 'em!- john marganski > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. > http://personals.yahoo.com > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15190	From: erierailroad@aol.com	Date: 10/27/2001
Subject: Re: York musings - Lionel Steam Engine-Price Comment

>>I would hope however, that such a locomotive comes into existence, it would >>be up to Lionel's premiere offerings, and not just a clone of an O-27 unit, like >>the offset cupola caboose.  Of course, don't expect it to be a 125 buck >>locomotive, more in the 400 to 500 dollar range, with Railsounds and TMCC, of >>course Hey Rich G. I thought the reason Lionel fired its union employees and moved all production to CHINA was to be able to offer Lionel products at a much lower price for the consumer. So maybe that $125 price is realistic! :) Jack [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15191	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 10/27/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1181

RADIUS of Flyer track is 19 1/4" radius according to Gilbert, "How to operate a model railroad", by Marshall McClintock, page 45. Fig. 19 shows cutting A 3 1/2" road bed with a 20" out side radius, splitting the 3 1/2" road bed = a 19 1/4 center line and center line for 2" wide A.F. track. In a recent post someone was looking for replacement black wooden handles for a #12B transformer, If anyone needs one I can turn then out on my lathe, contact me off line. Jerry 77-11644 grdobbs@... ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15192	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 10/27/2001
Subject: Re: York musings - Lionel Steam Engine

Rich G. wrote: >Anybody remember the SD40? I do, I do!! (Bitterly.) >There is a big difference between planning and doing here. Sheesh, is that ever true, especially with Lionel. Based on past experience, I don't think AM or SHS have anything to worry about in the way of competition from L/AF. >I will have to remain skeptical until I can see, touch, feel, a new >Flyer steam locomotive. We could probably institute a new club based on folks in the same frame of mind. >If one makes it to the catalog stage, expect to see a >photo of either an HO or O gauge product, probably heavily retouched >or airbrushed, and not of a pilot or production model. SOP for L/AF. Dunno about anyone else here, but I continue to breath normally. Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15193	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 10/27/2001
Subject: 720 vs 720A

Which in your opinions are the better switch the 720 or the 720A??? And why?? Mike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15194	From: Joe	Date: 10/27/2001
Subject: Trying to resolve a problem

Hi everyone.... I have an American Flyer I got way back in 1958. It hasn't run since I was in elementary school. A few years ago I took the engine in to be cleaned and serviced and returned it to storage. Now that I have new track I ran it for the first time tonight after all these many years. The problem is that it runs really great and at top speed in reverse but forward it runs slow and sluggish and sometimes stops. Does anyone have any idea what is causing this and how I can correct the problem? Any suggestions would be appreciated. Joe

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15195	From: Rick Evans	Date: 10/27/2001
Subject: Re: Trying to resolve a problem

Hi Joe, You should get a bunch of answers on this one!! Been discussed quite a bit,...the ol' "Faster in reverse" syndrome!! My 282 had the same problem. Seems armature wear is the main problem if I remember right. Many seem to be able to "true" the commutator. I attempted it with my 282 with no success,....finally threw in a pre- pulmor armature and that solved the problem. I will replace sooner or later with a pulmor one. You will get more detailed answers I'm sure. Good luck with your loco. Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15196	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 10/28/2001
Subject: Re: York musings - Lionel Steam Engine

Don Thompson wrote: This is real interesting news in light of the fact at York Dick Maddox also announced he would be leaving Lionel by next July. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hmmmm. Add to that that Lionel announced a new CEO on October 14th. A copy of the press release can be seen at: http://www.coilcouplers.com/hirail/hirail.shtml Sez there that Maddox will continue as president, but doesn't state for how long. Appears they've hired another fellow that doesn't know the train business. Here we go again... Thank goodness we got S Helper and American Models. Be seeing you... Rich G. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15197	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 10/28/2001
Subject: FAQ's Update

I took a break from my layout re-do to punch out some FAQ pages. (http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm) slow-forward syndrome more smoke track ballast cheap flyer track Hope to see you tonight at chat, maybe we will try out my web cam. ===== Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com Photography - Computers - Trains __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15198	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 10/28/2001
Subject: Re: E-Bay #1655263353

Eddie Rickenbacker (aka John Marganski) said: >Yeah, and get a second mortgage for the same guy's >"coal hopper" that looks just like a scrap 293 tender. >I want to watch these and get the e-mail address of >whoever is lame enough to bid/buy 'em! Well, John, if you are watching, you must have noticed that "Port Lines" bid on the tender "box car". How badly does Doug peck want that reverse unit? Doug? Wassup? Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15199	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 10/28/2001
Subject: Recent E-Bay junk

I looked over all of these people's offerings and quickly realized that this was a litle junk shop in Maine, where you would have been happy, on vacation, to browse for a half hour and look at all the neat old crap. What a surprise it would have been to find all this old Flyer stuff. Doubtless, any one of us would have made a $20 offer on the lot. (BTW, the engine is still up there. It's a mess, but it has parts.) The sellers have NO clue. They never heard of Gilbert or of Flyer. They are so disconnected from the world we live in that they don't even know what a "Big Mouth Billy Bass" is. They have one for sale and identified it as a "singing bass fish on plaque like back". They said "This fish sings two songs..'Be Happy'..the other I don't know the title." I guess "Take Me to the River" hasn't played much in Maine. It doesn't matter. In their shop, they would have cut a deal and you might have walked away happy with your pile of Flyer parts. On e-Bay, everything is ala carte. Every item is a valuable antique, each with it's own price. Laugh at these people if you want, but they WILL get $20 for the engine, and $10 each for the tender, boxcar and caboose. Would you have offered $50 for the set in their store? They probably acquired it in an attic cleanout for next to nothing. Laugh if you want, these people will do better than if they took this stuff to York. Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15200	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 10/28/2001
Subject: Re: log loaders

Joseph H. Lechner, Ph.D. postulates: >All of which goes to show that even adders can multiply on a log table. Not if they're practicing the logarhythm method. Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15201	From: J_Gasal@Compuserve.com	Date: 10/28/2001
Subject: Re: Trying to resolve a problem

Had the same problem on my steamer 283. I put in new brushes & brush springs which helped some. Resurfacing the commutator made a huge improvement and my unit works great now. See Message 15197 from Paul York. His link - http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/syndrome.html tells how to resurface the commutator (assuming it is a flat one like most steamers have). I didn't have a drill press, so I improvised and used a handheld cordless drill operated very slowly. I put my sandpaper on a block of wood rather than the steel mentioned in the article. My commutator had deep grooves from lots of use, so I had to change sandpaper several times. Also, regular sandpaper did not work very well - the more expensive 3M wet/dry paper worked much better. I used a handheld paper punch to cut holes in the sandpaper for the armature shaft to clear. If I recall, I started with 200 grit sandpaper and finished with 400 grit. The whole project took under 1 hour to do. --- In S-Trains@y..., "Joe" <jatradad@y...> wrote: > Hi everyone.... I have an American Flyer I got way back in 1958. It > hasn't run since I was in elementary school. A few years ago I took > the engine in to be cleaned and serviced and returned it to storage. > Now that I have new track I ran it for the first time tonight after > all these many years. The problem is that it runs really great and > at top speed in reverse but forward it runs slow and sluggish and > sometimes stops. Does anyone have any idea what is causing this and > how I can correct the problem? Any suggestions would be appreciated. > Joe

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15202	From: plotnick	Date: 10/28/2001
Subject: Balky handcar

I have a handcar that has been giving me problems for a long time. To put it simply, it balks when power is first supplied. The armature jams somehow. If I then start the armature spiining by hand it runs fairly well. I have rebushed it (thanks Tom J.) and tried putting new thrust washers in, put to no avail. So - suggestions? -Roy Plotnick Roy E. Plotnick Department of Earth and Environmental Sciences University of Illinois at Chicago 845 W. Taylor St. Chicago, Il .60607 phone: 312-996-2111 630-252-6377(May-August) e-mail: plotnick@... homepage: http://www.uic.edu/depts/geos/people/faculty/plotnick.html "Those who do not know the literature are condemned to repeat it."

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15203	From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi	Date: 10/28/2001
Subject: Portland Locomotive Works

Hi all: I noted that J. Foley mentioned Portland Locomotive Works as contributing some products to the timesaver layout. Do they have a website, what do they produce, provide, etc. Tx Rance Velapoldi

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15204	From: John Foley	Date: 10/28/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Portland Locomotive Works

Hi Rance Portland manufactures Sn2 equipment and S Structure They don't have a website. You can write to them at. Portland Locomotive Works P.O. Box 288 Utica, NY 13505 John At 06:34 PM 10/28/01 +0100, Rance and Bente Velapoldi wrote: >Hi all: >I noted that J. Foley mentioned Portland Locomotive Works as >contributing some products to the timesaver layout. Do they have a >website, what do they produce, provide, etc. Tx >Rance Velapoldi > > >To see or post Photos visit >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Scale/files/ >or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/ >To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15205	From: Doug Peck	Date: 10/28/2001
Subject: Re: "coal hopper" on Ebay

<<Yeah, and get a second mortgage for the same guy's "coal hopper" that looks just like a scrap 293 tender. i want to watch these and get the e-mail address of whoever is lame enough to bid/buy 'em!- john marganski >> Caveat to readers----- Before you think I'm criticizing John, please realize that I know him quite well ! Just yanking his chain here! Well, John----congratulate me ! I won that "coal hopper" for $10. Now, consider the parts value of a pair of repaired KC tender trucks, and an e-unit (which is visible in the picture). Like they say, "one man's trash.........." <g> Anyone else have e-units they want to sell???????? Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15206	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/28/2001
Subject: Re: "coal hopper" on Ebay

RATS!!! I woulda bid again' ye, If I'd had found it! Even with shipping, them's the kinda parts I'm always short on! S' David D. PS Well, often I don't bid, if I recongnize the bidder as "one of us."

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15207	From: Doug Peck	Date: 10/28/2001
Subject: Re: "coal hopper" on Ebay

<<Well, often I don't bid, if I recognize the bidder as "one of us." >> Likewise, Dave.......... My "policy" at train auctions (the REAL ones) and now on EBAY is that I will not bid against one of my customers if my purpose is resale. The only time I bid against a customer is if I'm interested in the piece for my own collection. I may lose some ITEMS that way, but hopefully I keep my customers! Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@... VISA --MC--DISCOVER--AMEX--PAYPAL Accepted. NEW ! View our entire AF Parts Catalog On-Line !!!! -----Original Message----- From: David Dewey [mailto:djdewey@...] Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2001 4:12 PM To: s-trains; portlines@... Subject: Re: [S-Trains] "coal hopper" on Ebay RATS!!! I woulda bid again' ye, If I'd had found it! Even with shipping, them's the kinda parts I'm always short on! S' David D. PS Well, often I don't bid, if I recongnize the bidder as "one of us."

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15208	From: jackress@yahoo.com	Date: 10/28/2001
Subject: Inside my all Red Plastic Reading 630

First off, thanks to everyone who offered sugestions on how to gain access to effect the wire repair. It was good reading. But I realized that I was on my own. Which is fine, because if any thing went wrong I could only blame myself. I ended up selecting a drill bit the size of the four corner holes, and started by drilling through the glue in that area. Then with many new exacto blades I carefully knifed my way through. I was surprised I didn't end up with a visit to the E.R. I finally made it through without loss of blood, or without any breakage to the plastic. I found upon entry that there is a brass, or copper strip riveted to the floor with the wire underneath it, that ventures over to make contact with the truck rivet. No part is soldered. I took some pictures of it apart, and would gladly e-mail to any interested parties. Again, I very much appreciate having this forum to seek help, and advise, and thank all who made the effort. I enjoy all types of repair, and make an effort not to alternate too much from Gilberts original design. Like some of the so-called eBay junk, I'll pay $10.00 for something, spend another $15.00 to fix it up, only to end up with a $6.00 piece of Flyer. But how can you put a price on the fun you have doing so? Like the commericial: $10.00 for a box of junk. Parts to fix it up $25.00. The entertainment you have getting there,PRICELESS. Cheers, Jack Larson

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15210	From: lensman@erols.com	Date: 10/28/2001
Subject: AF 322 Heavy Sparking Problem.

Hello again, Well I finally got the 322 on the track now. It runs and seems to want to run strong except it has a rather heavy persistent sparking occurring at the back wheel set of the chassis. Is this normal? If not how do I correct it? My 293 and 302 don't do this nearly as bad. Jerry

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15211	From: Rick Evans	Date: 10/28/2001
Subject: Re: AF 322 Heavy Sparking Problem.

I have certain locos with some wheels that just won't quit sparking,...no matter how much I clean 'em, shine 'em up, whatever! And I try to keep the track clean! Have noticed if they are very pitted, they spark worse it seems. I finally replaced the pitted ones on my ol' 282,...also a problem with the 282 was a worn armature, so it ran slow in forward and really had to crank up the juice to get it to go,..so, more juice, more arching I assume. I think you mentioned it was just the rear wheels? Is the tender traveling evenly down the track? Have a weird lean or anything? Just a thought. Anyway,..the ol' pros here will help ya out. Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15212	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 10/28/2001
Subject: 322 heavy sparking problem

The tires are supposed to be insulated, but they are not, for the sparking is an intermittent short circuit through them. The tires are probably loose or have been reglued in an incorrect position. If one touches the chassis, it connects it to the rail. In some cases due to excess wear, the trailing truck sideframe, if there is one, can touch the driver rim and cause the same connection. Instructions for repairing loose tires have been posted on this list. go to "my groups", then "s-trains", then click on "files" to find them. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15213	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 10/28/2001
Subject: balky handcar

Roy: the slow starting of the handcar is probably due to the gears not meshing well. Unfortunately the axle bearings aren't the only places on that chassis that can wear out. The channels that hold the armature shaft may have become worn too. I have had good luck adding shims of sheet brass to force the armature into a more correct location. i have even glued tiny shims to the arm that holds the gear which pumps the men, since this arm also holds down the armature shaft. This was to keep the shaft from rising, and force it to mesh with the gear. If you find that the motor runs better if the long end of the armature shaft is pushed in a certain direction, then the shaft must be shimmed in that direction. Most good art supply stores sell a small package of different thicknesses of sheet brass, which is perfect for jobs like this. You can cut the brass with a heavy scissors. Slow starting could also be caused by a damaged armature. It may have overheated and one coil may now be somewhat weak. Ifso, if you test the resistance of the armature coils, one pairing may have a lower resistance than the other two. With handcars, it's best to acquire a few junkers, and recombine the good parts to get a couple of good running units. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15214	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/28/2001
Subject: Re: Inside my all Red Plastic Reading 630

Jack, Intetersting, I was wondering if maybe ACG hadn't used the contact finger set-up, as they did on their heavyweight cars. I suspect the plastic didn't like the heat that soldering would require, just as many of the modern repro truck pivot insulationg washers don't! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15215	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 10/29/2001
Subject: Re: Inside my all Red Plastic Reading 630

Jack Larson writes: >I took some pictures of it apart, and would gladly e-mail >to any interested parties. Please do, Jack. Did you fix it? What method will you use to reassemble it. Will you glue again? If so, hot glue may be a good way to go. It will fill gaps and you'll be able to break it open if you need to again. BTW, your e-mail address, jackress @ yahoo.com , comes back as NG. Chris Zizzo P.S. to the list: The post I put up about "logarhythmic method" was a joke response to a thread on the toytrains list. Sorry, I got mixed up. I missed you guys at chat last night. My wife was using the computer. What nerve! CZ

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15216	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 10/29/2001
Subject: Re: AF 322 Heavy Sparking Problem

Jerry wrote: >it has a rather heavy persistent sparking occurring at the back wheel set of the >chassis. Is this normal? No, it is definitely not normal. A load, (and the loco is an electrical load) placed on a power source, will spark at the moment and place of contact. Since contact can be somewhat sporadic in a moving load, the power pickup points can spark a little. The power pickup on a 322 is all in the tender. That's why you will see some sparks coming from the tender wheels; more so if your track is dirty. The engine might as well have plastic wheels for all the electrical connection it is supposed to make with the track. In fact, later Pikemasters did have plastic wheels. The metal wheeled locos have whitewall tires that are plastic insulators. They have them on all drivers. Front pilot truck wheels are always plastic. Rear trailing truck wheels should also be plastic, although I do believe some early ones were metal and insulated at the axle. You can see from the above that Gilbert intended the steamer to be electrically isolated from the rails. You have a breakdown of that isolation. You should check your motor housing to be certain that the trailing truck is not making contact with the brush sleeves or any other motor parts. With the engine off the track, you should test for continuity between the sparking tires and each of the four contacts in the cab receptacle. Disconnect the tender first. You said that the wheels were pitting from the sparks. Disassemble the engine and seek out other areas for similar pitting evidence. You see the wheel sparks. There may be others happening that you can't see. Look over the motor shaft and the outside of the commutator. Look for points that should be insulated and try to think out ways that that insulation could be compromised. Don't overlook the headlight and smoke unit. I had this problem some years ago and it turned out to be the balance arm on the cast Delta truck (trailing), was bent and contacting the brush caps. Coupled with a single driver that had bad insulation, it caused sparking. Once the trailing truck was fixed, I did not think I actually needed to fix the driver, since it was solid and the opposite driver was still insulated. However, physically turning the engine around on the track caused a recurrence. That was because, in one direction, the wheel was the same polarity as the rail it was on and in the other direction it was a sporadic short. Each situation is unique, even though the same materials are involved. There is uniformity in the trains but not in their decay. As in all situations, YMMV. Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15217	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/29/2001
Subject: Re: AF 322 Heavy Sparking Problem

Thought I'd add to Chris' observations. The main drive wheels are designed to be isolated from the chassis, even though the chassis (with four-step reverse units) is also designed to be electrically isolated. If you hold you loco upside-down and look at the space between the wheels and the chassis, you will note that the wheels have a raised section in their centers (where the axle goes through them. A wheel that hasn't deteriorated has the tire rim flush with the outside edge of the wheel center (the part inside the white insulator. The raised section prevents the rim from touching the chassis, and also provides a side thrust surface for the wheels. If the wheel rim (tire) becomes loose, as is becoming common as the white plastic ages, it can touch the chassis, providing electrical continuity to it. If anything else has given the chassis power from the other rail, ZING! you get sparking, momentary short, etc. which often only shows itself by sequencing the reverse unit! (Ah, clue #2!) The wheels on the geared axle sometimes loose some of this raised area from wear, as that axle gets a lot of side thrust from the worm gear. I have used a brass armature thrust washer to replace the worn area with success. This also helps center the axle gear to the armature. Hmm, is this another clue to the "slow in forward" problem??? S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15218	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 10/29/2001
Subject: Re: AF 322 Heavy Sparking Problem

David Duck sez: > Hmm, is this another clue to the "slow in forward" problem??? My precise thoughts as I was writing my post. However, wouldn't it become a "slow in reverse" problem by switching track polarity or turning the engine around? Chris Z.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15219	From: Hannon	Date: 10/29/2001
Subject: Balky Handcar Armature

Roy: If the chassis was rebushed, and everything checks out fine mechanically, time to break out the manual and check that the armature produces a balanced reading as described in the introduction. Sounds like it was run a bit before the rebushing was done, so check that the soldering joints on the commutator are intact (after you take the reading). Bob Hannon P.S. I assume that slots in the chassis where the armature shaft rests were also checked, and that there's no play in there when the motor is assembled. > > From: plotnick <plotnick@...> > Subject: Balky handcar > > I have a handcar that has been giving me problems for a long time. To put it > simply, it balks when power is first supplied. The armature jams somehow. If > I then start the armature spiining by hand it runs fairly well. I have > rebushed it (thanks Tom J.) and tried putting new thrust washers in, put to no > avail. > So - suggestions? > -Roy Plotnick > > Roy E. Plotnick

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15220	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/29/2001
Subject: Re: AF 322 Heavy Sparking Problem

Chris, No, as the problem is wear; as the loco goes forward, it forces the geared axle to one side (Left I think, but I'm not looking at an engine). If the shoulder is worn down, this allows the gears to mis-align, causing binding. At least that is one of my theories right now! Gotta go to work! S David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15221	From: Rick Evans	Date: 10/29/2001
Subject: Re: AF 322 Heavy Sparking Problem.

I missed the fact that Jerry was talking about the "chassis" of the loco, and NOT the tender!! I shouldn't try to respond to posts late at night!! I've done the ol' super glue to fix a couple of loose wheels. Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15222	From: Hannon	Date: 10/29/2001
Subject: The Hunt for Living S-Gaugers

Last night on the chat line, an estimate was kicked around about the number of S-Gaugers in ?the world?. The number was: approximately 5,000. Now this was the second time I've heard that "ballpark" number. Both times, it was based on the number of active subscribers to the S-Gaugian Magazine. Talking with parts dealers, their estimates of "living" S-Gaugers was at least in the range of 53,000 to 57,000. Definitely an order of magnitude higher, but the 4-5000 number is the number on which some publishers and manufacturers make their production (or non-production) decisions. I think it's time someone took a real poll! Not everyone subscribes to the S-Gaugian magazine. Personnally, for years I didn't simply because I enjoyed the incentive to take the kids down to our local (25 miles) hobby shop, look around, get a copy, and have dinner at McDonald's on the way home (or pick up a really great pizza at this hole-in-the-wall Italian place run by Greek immigrants). Let's face it. If there's only 4000-5000 S-Gaugers out there, how do companies like S-Helper, American Models, and other manufacturers and parts dealers survive? And why would Lionel even bother to produce anything, much less the sets they've produced in the past, for that small a market? Bob Hannon

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15223	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 10/29/2001
Subject: cranky handcar

As TJ pointed out, some physical impediment exists that requires the "big hand in the sky" to initially overcome because the motor hasn't the momentum from a dead-start to do so itself. Gear mesh is key, as are the other possible points of drive-train interference that Tom pointed out. It's been awhile since I worked on my 742, but I believe you can center the field. If it isn't centered it might have a glancing point of interference with an armature segment. Check that out too. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15224	From: IronHorse	Date: 10/29/2001
Subject: Re: The Hunt for Living S-Gaugers

There ar thousands of "S" gaugers that don't subscribe or belong to any group. I don't subscribe to any S magazine because many of the articles are exact re- productions of articles published in the sixties. The only group I belong to is this one. I am not a member of NASG or NMRA. Because I don't like receiving the political info. of guys running for office in those groups. A lot of other model railroaders feel the same way. I would become a member if I had the option of never receiving political info. Keep in mind I own a museum with the principal display being AFG. So I get to meet a lot of "S" gaugers. Roger Hinds HTTP://travel.to/cofa

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15225	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 10/29/2001
Subject: Re: The Hunt for Living S-Gaugers

Hi Bob, I believe that S Gaugers are divided into several catagories: 1. Active members of NASG, Clubs and magazines. 2. Active operators that don't buy magazines or belong to any organizations. 3. Collectors that buy new issue AF for their shelves by keeping in touch with Lionel dealers. 4. Old timers that own a set of AF and run it once a year. When we hold local train shows independent of Greenberg or GATs we see all of the above but can never encourage groups 2., 3. or 4. to get involved like Roger. Thus 50,000 to even 100,000 thousand AF owners may be out there but only 3,000 to 5,000 are actively buying new or used products. I didn't even touch on the Scale, Hi-Rail, Sn2, Sn3 or AF factions within those 3,000 to 5,000 numbers. The only way to take an accurate poll would be to have a question on the National Census requiring people to divulge what size trains they own or operate. Staying on the NPSG branchline of NASG track, Glenn NASG Secretary Hannon wrote: Last night on the chat line, an estimate was kicked around about the number of S-Gaugers in ?the world?. The number was: approximately 5,000. Now this was the second time I've heard that "ballpark" number. Both times, it was based on the number of active subscribers to the S-Gaugian Magazine. Talking with parts dealers, their estimates of "living" S-Gaugers was at least in the range of 53,000 to 57,000. Definitely an order of magnitude higher, but the 4-5000 number is the number on which some publishers and manufacturers make their production (or non-production) decisions. I think it's time someone took a real poll! Not everyone subscribes to the S-Gaugian magazine. Personnally, for years I didn't simply because I enjoyed the incentive to take the kids down to our local (25 miles) hobby shop, look around, get a copy, and have dinner at McDonald's on the way home (or pick up a really great pizza at this hole-in-the-wall Italian place run by Greek immigrants). Let's face it. If there's only 4000-5000 S-Gaugers out there, how do companies like S-Helper, American Models, and other manufacturers and parts dealers survive? And why would Lionel even bother to produce anything, much less the sets they've produced in the past, for that small a market? Bob Hannon

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15226	From: IronHorse	Date: 10/29/2001
Subject: Re: The Hunt for Living S-Gaugers

Glenn Ritter wrote: > > When we hold local train shows > independent of Greenberg or > GATs we see all of the above but > can never encourage groups 2., > 3. or 4. to get involved like Roger. I can't emphasize strong enough how many people are turned of by The politics. I hear it often. Get it out of the NASG and NMRA magazine's send it separately to those that want it. Once done, send info on the change to former members. Then I would be interested in coming back. To exaggerate. Some people want to throw up when they get political Info. It actually made me angry to get issues filled with political Info. Who wants to belong to a group that makes them sick. Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15227	From: IronHorse	Date: 10/29/2001
Subject: Museum closed

Hi guy"S" ; Crossroads of America is closed for the season. I am making a major change in my layout. I am tearing it down. Don't fret! I am going to make a new one, bigger and better. I hope ;o} The new one will be of the Mountain division in the White Mountains of New Hampshire. This will mean a lot less track even though the layout will be longer. It will be About 100' long and 3' - 4' wide. It will wrap around 3 walls. The only turn around will be, A turntable for the loco in N. Conway or Bartlett. At the other end a "Y" at Fabian's Station. Maybe a hidden loop instead. I am still working on the Frankienstien trestle. A big job. Later http://travel.to/cofa

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15228	From: Tim Brown	Date: 10/29/2001
Subject: Re: cranky handcar

Hi, Have you tried running the hand car with the shell off? Sometimes those rubber men get brittle and is too much for the motor. Regards, Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: <david_horn@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, October 29, 2001 12:37 PM Subject: [S-Trains] cranky handcar > As TJ pointed out, some physical impediment exists that requires the "big > hand in the sky" to initially overcome because the motor hasn't the momentum > from a dead-start to do so itself. Gear mesh is key, as are the other > possible points of drive-train interference that Tom pointed out. It's been > awhile since I worked on my 742, but I believe you can center the field. If > it isn't centered it might have a glancing point of interference with an > armature segment. Check that out too. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15229	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 10/29/2001
Subject: Re: AF 322 Heavy Sparking Problem.

You proabably have a driver tire rubbing the frame. If tire is loose pry it out and glue it on. If tire isn't lose you may have to pry the driver out, keeping a check on the wheel gauge. lensman@... wrote: > > Hello again, > > Well I finally got the 322 on the track now. It runs and seems to want to run strong except it has a rather heavy persistent sparking occurring at the back wheel set of the chassis. Is this normal? If not how do I correct it? My 293 and 302 don't do this nearly as bad. > > Jerry > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15230	From: louis glumac	Date: 10/29/2001
Subject: FOR SALE

Hi more extra stuff for sale here, 23791 cow E-OB 100$ green bumpers 12$ each tressels sets 12$ each 770 barrel loader- 20$ real project 596 water tower 40 VG 771 stock yard only-hand made roof-40$ 466 engine needs work 75$ 960,962,963, poor, 40$ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15231	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 10/29/2001
Subject: TWO THINGS

First the cable show : anyone remember Enginer Bill??? Second: TTOS asks on all their apps what your interests are O S HO TT N Etc AND if any are scale Or highrail ....They may have a fair accounting of how many are AF or S that are in their ranks.... If anyone knows the head of the National they may give the info.....I know that the Division that I belong to in LA has a seperate div just for AF with I belive about 50 members for AF alone At each of their quarterly shows there is always a sizable layout with three loops for AF to run on this shows up far more often than the O layout.....I can find out a bit more at CAL STUART In Nov...Mike S. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15232	From: Neil Trump	Date: 10/29/2001
Subject: part needed for magnetic crane

Help! I am rebuilding a magnetic crane but it needs a part. I am looking for the chrome bell shaped spacer that goes between the silver super-structure and the black rotating crane assembly, any ideas? Neil T.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15233	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 10/29/2001
Subject: CAL-STEWART

CAL-STEWART ( Correct spelling this time)is Nov 16-18 With the 18th being the only day open to the gen. public Address is: 300 E Green street Pasadena, Ca 91101 Mike S. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15234	From: John Foley	Date: 10/29/2001
Subject: Fwd: failure notice

> >Hi Folks > Here's a website I found while surfing, >http://usloki.tripod.com/Manufacturers.htm > Lots of drawings of lots of diesels. Just click on the companies loco. >John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15235	From: Dan Brindell	Date: 10/29/2001
Subject: Strange Gilbert

It's a bit off subject, but if you want to see one of the oddest things A.C. Gilbert ever made, take a look at ebay auction 1654178024. The URL is http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1654178024 It's hard to believe that anybody thought this would be a suitable subject for a game. Dan B.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15236	From: Rick Evans	Date: 10/29/2001
Subject: Strange Gilbert....& Christmas train pics....

That does seem quite odd for a game!! ....And, did anyone send in a pic of your youth with your trains at Christmas? Classic Lionel,..oops, I mean Classic TOY Trains magazine is/was looking for pictures for a book. Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15237	From: Rick Evans	Date: 10/29/2001
Subject: Re: The Hunt for Living S-Gaugers

Maybe we could start up a nation wide "S" club,...no dues, no politics etc.,....just a list of all those interested in "S". A "WHO'S-WHO" of S gaugers, for S gaugers. Just a thought I had being home with a cold! Rick "Pass the tissue" Evans.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15238	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 10/29/2001
Subject: Re: Strange Gilbert

Checked this game out. Really is "unique". Wife says to buy it. Letting you guys know I'm going to try to snipe a winning bidding right at close of auction just in case you are planning on bidding as well. Roger Petrella Franktown, CO Dan Brindell wrote: > It's a bit off subject, but if you want to see one of the oddest things A.C. > Gilbert ever made, take a look at ebay auction 1654178024. The URL is > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1654178024 > It's hard to believe that anybody thought this would be a suitable subject > for a game. > > Dan B. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15239	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/29/2001
Subject: Own an AF Prototype!

Hi all, Just spotted this on Railway Preservation News site. Anyone for a 925 tank car, full size? http://www.rypn.org/Briefs/October2001/011030.htm It's free!! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15240	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 10/29/2001
Subject: diesel wiring diagram

Does anyone have a wiring diagram for an early double motor 5 digit diesel with 2 step reverse unit? This would be the one where the brushes are paired and fields are paired too.I don't have such a unit handy. Thanks. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15241	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 10/29/2001
Subject: AF prototype

D.D.: Somehow, I think the wife might object to finding that in the living room, Flyer prototype or not.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15242	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/29/2001
Subject: A bit of steam railroad reading

If you want a break from the "usual" here's an interesting piece of writing. S' David D. http://www.cumbresandtoltec.com/discussionboardphotopage/discussionboardphot opage.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15243	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 10/30/2001
Subject: Gilbert PulMor Wheels

Anybody have any ideas as to why Gilbert usually put their PulMor driver wheels on the front axles of their S gauge locomotives? It seems that it would have made more sense to put them on the rear axle, as this axle is geared and gets the most torque from the motor. By having the PulMor tires on the rear axle, there also should be less wear on the holes of the side rods. Joe ===== Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,300 part lines American Models ## S-Helper Service ## Gilbert Rerpoductions Featuring Parts by Toy Trains International joestrainrepair@... Master Card/Visa __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15244	From: IronHorse	Date: 10/30/2001
Subject: Re: Gilbert PulMor Wheels

Perhaps it is because of the weight of the smoke unit ??? Or perhaps the loco will do a wheel stand (if the tires were in the back)(under sudden full power) like a race car, which would derail the loco . Roger Hinds Joseph Haenn wrote: > Anybody have any ideas as to why Gilbert usually put > their PulMor driver wheels on the front axles of their > S gauge locomotives? It seems that it would have made > more sense to put them on the rear axle, as this axle > is geared and gets the most torque from the motor. By > having the PulMor tires on the rear axle, there also > should be less wear on the holes of the side rods. > > Joe > > ===== > Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9 > 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 > Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer > Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,300 part lines > American Models ## S-Helper Service ## Gilbert Rerpoductions > Featuring Parts by Toy Trains International > joestrainrepair@... Master Card/Visa > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. > http://personals.yahoo.com > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15245	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 10/30/2001
Subject: Re: The Hunt for Living S-Gaugers

Since you live in New Hampshire, no wonder you're tired of politics. Many times in the past politics almost killed the NASG. However, we have a new group of Board members who only have the best interests of all of S in mind. You might think about at least giving us a try one more time, but that's up to you. Your layout does a great job of promoting S. I visited it a couple of years ago and enjoyed your stories and exhibits. As far as living S gaugers go, I wish we could quantify the number, because whenever we try to get a company to make products for S, they always say they will do it if the market warrants it. If we could hit them with some hard numbers it would really help. Roy

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15246	From: plotnick	Date: 10/30/2001
Subject: Re: balky handcar

Based on the comments from Tom and Bob (thanks!) I now have tow things to check. My guess is that it is worn channel for the armature. I can see the armature noticeably shift when I apply the power; I had hoped that putting new thruct washers in would reduce the play. I will aslo check the meter readings. Stay tuned. -Roy BTW. There are still bargains out there. I picked up a reversing handcar at an antique store last week for $35! Pretty good shape, except for one broken nub. One last thing, if I want to strup and repaint a handcar shell, what is the best paint match? Roy E. Plotnick Department of Earth and Environmental Sciences University of Illinois at Chicago 845 W. Taylor St. Chicago, Il .60607 phone: 312-996-2111 630-252-6377(May-August) e-mail: plotnick@... homepage: http://www.uic.edu/depts/geos/people/faculty/plotnick.html "Those who do not know the literature are condemned to repeat it."

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15247	From: David	Date: 10/30/2001
Subject: Re: Gilbert PulMor Wheels

I read an article on this a long time ago. Gilbert originally put the Pul-Mor wheels on the rear set of drivers for the reasons you mentioned. Its the geared wheel, and more weight is placed on this set as opposed to the front set of drivers. However, Pul-Mor was so good (As opposed to Lionels magnatraction.... :o)), that when pulling a train, the front drivers would tend to pull up off the rails and a derailment would occur. Rather than abandoning this valuable feature, they moved the Pul-Mor drivers to the front of the loco. Problem solved.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15248	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 10/30/2001
Subject: pulmors on which axle

Some steamers were mfr'd with drivers on the front or rear axle, others not. Of those not, they typically had their pulmors on the rear axle. I prefer it that way. The weight of the engine gets thrown to the back axle as it starts pulling a train. In other cases, perhaps ACG wanted to experiment with front wheel drive. Who knows. In terms of single power-truck PA's, I believe some were also made power in the front truck, others had it in the rear. Consult a good reference book for details. With Geeps and EP-5's it all depends which end you consider the "front". Personally I like to run those with the power truck in the rear. Over all, however, I prefer for dual-motorized units. They have noticeably greater pulling power without much penalty paid in terms of speed assuming both motors are tuned so as not to create a struggle with each other. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15249	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 10/30/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1190

In a message dated 10/30/2001 7:28:39 AM Mountain Standard Time, S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes: > From: Joseph Haenn <joestrainrepair@...> > Subject: Gilbert PulMor Wheels > > Anybody have any ideas as to why Gilbert usually put > their PulMor driver wheels on the front axles of their > S gauge locomotives? It seems that it would have made > more sense to put them on the rear axle, as this axle > is geared and gets the most torque from the motor. By > having the PulMor tires on the rear axle, there also > should be less wear on the holes of the side rods. > > Joe, They did put them on the rear drive wheels of most of their locos. Seems to be a hit and miss proposition. I have a near mint 326 that has them on the front and a 336 that are on the rear. all my others three digit locos are also on the rear. Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15250	From: David Garber	Date: 10/30/2001
Subject: Fwd: Re: The Hunt for Living S-Gaugers

--- In S-Trains@y..., "Rick Evans" <comic@d...> wrote: Maybe we could start up a nation wide "S" club,...no dues, no politics etc.,....just a list of all those interested in "S". A "WHO'S-WHO" of S gaugers, for S gaugers. Just a thought I had being home with a cold! Rick "Pass the tissue" Evans. --- End forwarded message --- Good idea. The problem would be letting it be known that there was such a club to people that do not get train literature. It was a surprise to me that no one picked up on the American Flyer Collectors Club after Frank Hare's eyesight failed in the late 90's. AFCC had over a thousand members if I remember correctly. This list is about the closest thing that we have at this time, but is limmited to train/computer people. Dave Garber

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15251	From: Novak, William	Date: 10/30/2001
Subject: Pulmors on AM diesels

My American Models F7 is equipped with a one-wheel set of their Gription tires on the rear powered axle. I've notice that the torque on start-up acceleration will raise the front wheel set on that truck. Only after coming up to speed does that wheel set drop back onto the rails. No derailment problems to date. Just doin' wheelies! Bill Novak Arlington, Virginia

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15252	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 10/30/2001
Subject: pul-mor rims

Guys, I've been thinking about Neil's new pul-mor rims. How to replace the rims without removing a wheel? Quartering problems are best avoided if possible, and it's best if the axle-wheel joint isn't disturbed. I've changed rims on several locos, but it was awkward. The old rim and insulator can be removed with a wheel puller. In order to push the new rim and an insulator (whitewall) onto the wheel core, it seems to me that what is needed is a tool like a C clamp. The bottom arm of the C would have to be thin enough to fit between the wheel and the chassis, and have a channel to accommodate (clear) the axle and possibly the raised center of the wheel core. With this, it would be relatively easy to force the new tire onto the wheel. Any comments? Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15253	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 10/30/2001
Subject: Re: The Hunt for Living S-Gaugers

Let's see if 600 computer people contacted every non-computer AF person then someone could develop a mailing list for the new "3/16" Model Train Collector and Operator Club". Glenn David Garber wrote: --- In S-Trains@y..., "Rick Evans" <comic@d...> wrote: Maybe we could start up a nation wide "S" club,...no dues, no politics etc.,....just a list of all those interested in "S". A "WHO'S-WHO" of S gaugers, for S gaugers. Just a thought I had being home with a cold! Rick "Pass the tissue" Evans. --- End forwarded message --- Good idea. The problem would be letting it be known that there was such a club to people that do not get train literature. It was a surprise to me that no one picked up on the American Flyer Collectors Club after Frank Hare's eyesight failed in the late 90's. AFCC had over a thousand members if I remember correctly. This list is about the closest thing that we have at this time, but is limmited to train/computer people. Dave Garber

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15254	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 10/30/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1189

Rick Evens; wrote about forming a nation wide S gage group without any dues or politics, etc.. That what we have now in the S-trains Digest (which I believe everyone enjoys, even with the small conflicts and disagreements), we just need to recruit moor new members. Jerry 77-11644 ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15255	From: erierailroad@aol.com	Date: 10/30/2001
Subject: Re: Pulmors on AM diesels

Bill, My American Models FP7 had the same wheelie problem, and would derail around curves. I moved the Gription wheel to the back, and this solved my problem. The AM diesels work great with the Gription. I wish SHS would jump on the band wagon. Jack [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15256	From: Howard Sheffield	Date: 10/30/2001
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: The Hunt for Living S-Gaugers

Another point for all to remember when having a booth at shows is to do what we do at ours and put NASG as well as other S information on a table for people to get. I also put info out on my tables to show the different mnfrs and distributors of S stuff that I don't carry as a dealer. It all helps the cause. Some shows also have separate information tables for literature you can put things on. Howard Sheffield Howard' S Trains Roseville, CA >--- In S-Trains@y..., "Rick Evans" <comic@d...> wrote: >Maybe we could start up a nation wide "S" club,...no dues, no >politics etc.,....just a list of all those interested in "S". >A "WHO'S-WHO" of S gaugers, for S gaugers. > >Just a thought I had being home with a cold! > >Rick "Pass the tissue" Evans. >--- End forwarded message --- > > Good idea. The problem would be letting it be known that there >was such a club to people that do not get train literature. It was a >surprise to me that no one picked up on the American Flyer Collectors >Club after Frank Hare's eyesight failed in the late 90's. AFCC had >over a thousand members if I remember correctly. This list is about >the closest thing that we have at this time, but is limmited to >train/computer people. Dave Garber > > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > _______________________________________________________________________ Free Domain Name Registration with Web Hosting at Lanset Communications. 56k Dialup, Web Design, and Colocation at http://www.lanset.net

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15257	From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT	Date: 10/30/2001
Subject: hobby shops

Clear DayDoes anyone know of any good Hobby Shops or stores close to I-10 between Jacksonville, Fl and Phoniex, Az...That have FLYER and maybe old Model Airplane Kits? bob [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15258	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 10/30/2001
Subject: Re: Gilbert PulMor Wheels

Joseph Haenn wrote: >Anybody have any ideas as to why Gilbert usually put >their PulMor driver wheels on the front axles of their >S gauge locomotives? I assume we're talking about steam locos. Gilbert usually DID put the Pulmor tires on the rear drivers. Only a few models, such as the 307 Atlantic had Pulmors attached to the front drivers, most other post- 302 Atlantics had them on the rear. BTW, the 307 had no smoke unit, so it's doubtful the pms were put on the front because of extra weight there. Even with a smoke unit up front, AF steamers are still a bit tail-heavy anyway. As for rail-hopping proclivities on curves, any AF steamer that uses a cab-mounted drawbar will experience more flange-to-rail pressure at the outside lead driver than the same type loco with a drawbar connected to the loco chassis. Simple leverage is the reason. When negotiating a curve, the rear of the cab swings wide to the outside. If the tender is hitched to the cab, the whole consist becomes devoted to pulling the loco straight, forcing the outer lead flange against the rail. With the tender drawbar attached to the chassis just behind the rear drivers (as it is on Atlantics and Pacifics with the "floating" trailing truck, and the 5-digit Hudsons and Northerns), there is no outward swing of the drawbar hitch point, so any such leverage is virually nil. That could be one more reason Gilbert adopted the chassis-mounted drawbar on the 5-digit Northern. The Northern has the greatest cab-to-rear driver length of any steam loco in the Gilbert lineup, which is one of the reasons that Northerns with cab-mounted drawbars jump curves so easily. Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15259	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 10/31/2001
Subject: Gilbert PulMor Wheels

Most interesting points, Chuck. I have only seen pulmor on the front drivers of 283's, 287's , and 307's. I have never seen a 326 with this, but don't doubt they exist. I think it was a mistake. The few locos I have with this run poorly, especially through switches, curves, and trestles. They tend to buck. Flyer had driving wheel issues with their steam locos at this time, because they made the tire flanges larger, and these struck the boiler mountings on some chassises. Perhaps it was connected to that. The way pulmor tires are placed in diesel motors is instructive. In single motor diesels, the pair of tires in the power truck nearest the center of the loco are "pulmored". In double motored diesels, one wheel in each wheelset nearest the middle of the loco is "pulmored". In all cases, the pulmor tire is not on the first wheelset, but is guided by a non pulmor wheel. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15260	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 10/31/2001
Subject: Re: Gilbert PulMor Wheels

In a message dated 10/31/01 3:18:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, jarcho@... writes: << I have only seen pulmor on the front drivers of 283's, 287's , and 307's. >> I own some 303s with Pulmor tires on the front drivers, as well. I've also seen this done on some (ugh!) Casey Jones. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15261	From: Eugene Steffan	Date: 10/31/2001
Subject: Discussion About PBS

I just happen to be paging through an old issue of Model Railroader (May 1987) and found an article by Russ Larson, Editor, on page 53 and 132. He discusses their attempt at producing videos for PBS, their success and failures. Anyone interested in pursuing trains on PBS may want to review this article. Another interesting article in the same issue is a 6 page write-up on the past 50 years, present (1987), and future of S scale. The "L" word isn't mentioned even once. However, they do give a lot of press to American Models, NASG and many others in S-scale. Yesterday, I visited our only hobby shop in the Ft. Myers area (Hobby Warehouse). I think it is a National chain. I already know they don't carry any S, but was interested to see if they could order some Gargraves S track. I received a totally blank stare as none of the 3 people behind the counter had ever even heard of the product. They searched their computer and found nothing! I was promised they would get back to me if they could get the track. During our discussions, The "L" word came up. While they have a huge amount of "L" on the shelves, they told me they have tried to order American Flyer and were told it was not available. Verly interesting? Gene

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15262	From: jfrodgers@rpb-law.com	Date: 10/31/2001
Subject: 283 Help.

I am working on a 283 that I recently acquired. It does not run. I have done the following. Checked the fingers on the reverse unit. They look fine, and unit has been cleaned. The unit clicks when power turned on and off like it should. I replaced the brush springs and cleaned the commutator and lubed the gears. When I hand twirl the armature the wheels move. I tried the bypass of the tender and with the diagonal wire and the transformer hooked to the brush wires. It started smoking near the armature and nothing happened. (The circuit breaker in the transformer did not trip so it did not detect a short) I checked the brushes (milk can shaped) and they are about 3/8" long and clean. Any ideas? I must confess that I am not really savvy at this. Sincerely yours, John Rodgers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15263	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 10/31/2001
Subject: Re: Discussion About PBS

That 1987 issue would be usefull in our NASG Library. Who wrote the history of S and can copies be made available legally? Glenn Eugene Steffan wrote: Another interesting article in the same issue is a 6 page write-up on the past 50 years, present (1987), and future of S scale. The "L" word isn't mentioned even once. However, they do give a lot of press to American Models, NASG and many others in S-scale.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15264	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 10/31/2001
Subject: Re: Discussion About PBS

I think there were co-authors and one of them was Sam Powell. --- In S-Trains@y..., Glenn Ritter <gartrain@n...> wrote: > That 1987 issue would be usefull > in our NASG Library. Who wrote > the history of S and can copies > be made available legally? > > Glenn > > Eugene Steffan wrote: > > Another interesting article in the same > issue is a 6 page write-up on > the past 50 years, present (1987), and > future of S scale. The "L" word > isn't mentioned even once. However, > they do give a lot of press to > American Models, NASG and many > others in S-scale.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15265	From: gino restivo	Date: 10/31/2001
Subject: Re: 283 Help.

hi all , does your loco have a jack panel at the rear of the cab , if so do the bypass at this point , NOT TO THE BRUSH WIRES ..... that would cause the armature to overheat and fry ....use one brush and one field wire please keep in mind the wiring of these motors is in series ,trans power in to brush,thru armature,out other brush, to field, out field back to trans post ..... your post noted you hooked power to the brush wires, you need to have the field in series with the armature for the motor to run .. if you need additional help e-mail or post it have fun , gino -----Original Message----- From: jfrodgers@... <jfrodgers@...> To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Date: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 9:40 AM Subject: [S-Trains] 283 Help. >I am working on a 283 that I recently acquired. It does not run. I >have done the following. Checked the fingers on the reverse unit. >They look fine, and unit has been cleaned. The unit clicks when power >turned on and off like it should. I replaced the brush springs and >cleaned the commutator and lubed the gears. When I hand twirl the >armature the wheels move. I tried the bypass of the tender and with >the diagonal wire and the transformer hooked to the brush wires. It >started smoking near the armature and nothing happened. (The circuit >breaker in the transformer did not trip so it did not detect a short) > I checked the brushes (milk can shaped) and they are about 3/8" long >and clean. Any ideas? I must confess that I am not really savvy at >this. >Sincerely yours, >John Rodgers > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > ---------------------------------------------------- Sign Up for NetZero Platinum Today Only $9.95 per month! http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15266	From: Paul Husby	Date: 10/31/2001
Subject: Correct wiring of stockyard switch?

I took apart our stockyard switchbox to repair the rotary switch, and got to wondering if the box is supposed to do something more than what I have had it doing. Having never seen any wiring diagram, I had set it up so the rotary switch controls the stockyard vibrations, and the pushbutton runs the cattlecar vibrations. Looking inside the switchbox, I see that the pushbutton has a second set of completely independent contacts. Is this to control some additional function? It always seemed like there were a lot of connectors on the box for what I needed to do. Thanks, Paul Husby St. Paul, MN

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15267	From: Tom Stolte	Date: 10/31/2001
Subject: Oddballs Decals 20% off sale.

Since November is Model Railroad Month. All decals are now 20% off retail price for the month of Nov. only. All orders must be postmark between Nov. 1st and Nov. 30th. This offer does not cover orders from the hobby shops that sells my decals. --- --- Tom Stolte - Oddballs Decals N, HO, S & O Scale Model Railroad Decals 26550 227th Street; McLouth, Kansas 66054 Phone: 913-727-6649 - oddballdecal@... Web site http://www.oddballsdecals.com/ Subscribe: OddballsDecals-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Missouri Pacific Photos Web Page: http://www.trainweb.org/mopac/ NMRA Member #121756 Subscribe: MOPAC-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15268	From: James Tanley	Date: 10/31/2001
Subject: Hot Wheels

Does anyone know anything about Hot Wheels? A friend ha come upon a large cache & is interested in pricing & selling them.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15269	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 10/31/2001
Subject: cranky 283

John, by-passing the rev-unit (e-unit is a Lionel term) is a great test, but must be done very carefully. Using the plug-board as mentioned is important. Otherwise, assuming your brush posts and field posts are isolated, you need four lead wires - - a base lead and 7-15V lead connected to the brush posts, and a similar pair assigned to the field posts. The idea is AC "flows" through the armature from brush to brush, while in parallel from one end of the field to the other. Depending on the relative L to R directions of the flow through each, the motor spins in one direction, or the other. If you get all that and wire it accordingly, but still have no motion, you've likely got a broken field or armature segment wire, or a "leak" (partial shorting out due to a weakenin of the ceramic insulation) in one or the other. Rewinding should solve that. PS I once bought a basket case 326 with the pulmors on the front axles. As a part of getting it 'refreshed' I changed them out to the rear set. It ran better, but later I learned it very well could have come from the factory with them in the front. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15270	From: Don Thompson	Date: 10/31/2001
Subject: Re: Discussion About PBS

Dear Roy, The "50th Anniversary of S" was a project of the NASG Promotions Committee while I was the chairman We asked Model Railroader if they would be interested in publishing such an article and they agreed. I then contacted Sam Powell if he could help author the article. There may have been other authors, I do not remember. I think that we had Bob Werre take some of the photos. I know that Vic Roseman had at least one of the photos for this article. All of the authors and photographers were paid by Kalmbach for their efforts. The NASG purchased reprints to be used as promotional hand outs. "L" was never mentioned due to the fact that we felt they had no interest in "S" scale. They were not making any new "S Scale" products and gave us no indications that they were even planning on producing anything that was truly "S Scale". Don T. article for Roy Hoffman wrote: > I think there were co-authors and one of them was Sam Powell. > > --- In S-Trains@y..., Glenn Ritter <gartrain@n...> wrote: > > That 1987 issue would be usefull > > in our NASG Library. Who wrote > > the history of S and can copies > > be made available legally? > > > > Glenn > > > > Eugene Steffan wrote: > > > > Another interesting article in the same > > issue is a 6 page write-up on > > the past 50 years, present (1987), and > > future of S scale. The "L" word > > isn't mentioned even once. However, > > they do give a lot of press to > > American Models, NASG and many > > others in S-scale. -- -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15271	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 10/31/2001
Subject: PARTS????

Anyone know where I can get 2 PA horns not repos and a tender for a 342 or 343???? any leads would help....The tender would have to have the e_unit in it....Thanks Mike S. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15272	From: gunrjoe@aol.com	Date: 10/31/2001
Subject: Need advice and help to preserve trains!!!!!!!!!!

All of you have been vey helpful to me in the past. Now I need you to help me assist some train people in trouble. Last month I went to Monticello Illinois to a train club and drove a real F-7. While killing time in town I went to a place named RAYVILLE. It was a large store turned into a model train museum and more by a man named Ray. He died and left the store to the county historical society. They planned to build a new building for the collection next to the big train museum and club next year. A fellow named Chuck who is mostly a Lionel guy was trying to keep the old store together and was fighting roof leaks and other damage problems. Rayville had quite a bit of Flyer including an exc. condition 0-6-0 which I would love to have. I had a great time talking to Chuck and listening for his hopes for a better Rayville. Ray spent his entire life collecting trains, Lincoln Memorabilia, political posters and buttons, etc. Finally to the problem. Last week a Twister hit Monticello and tore the roof off of Ray,s life's work. Much was destroyed inclusing his large HO layout which must have been 40 by 20 feet, I don't know if his smaller O and S layout; 's survived. Antway, Chuck and some volunteers are tring to preserve the rolling stock, much of which already has signs of rust. They have tented the roof and are trying to dry everything. I want to try to visit him soon and sure could use some suggestions to pass on to him. I know WD40 displaces moisture and helps protect meatal but also know that it shouldn't get into some motor parts. What advice can I pass on to Chuck. Should they completely dry each piece, oil profusely and wrap in paper until each piece can be properly evaluated and cleaned up? What products and procedures would be best. Excuse any typos in this message I do not have time to correct them, but anything you can email me in the way of advice I will get to Chuck. I feel really bad for him and his buddies down there and it must be sad to see all this train equipment in need of such extensive work. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15273	From: Eugene Steffan	Date: 10/31/2001
Subject: Re: Discussion About PBS

Co-authors of the article were Sam Powell and Jeff Wilson. In addition, Don Dewitt authored an insert (my term, not a publishers) on "Modular S scale railroading". Photographs are credited to Bob Werre, Ed Loizeaux, Gaylord Gill and Vic Roseman. Gene Glenn Ritter wrote: > That 1987 issue would be usefull > in our NASG Library. Who wrote > the history of S and can copies > be made available legally? > > Glenn > > Eugene Steffan wrote: > > Another interesting article in the same > issue is a 6 page write-up on > the past 50 years, present (1987), and > future of S scale. The "L" word > isn't mentioned even once. However, > they do give a lot of press to > American Models, NASG and many > others in S-scale.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15274	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 10/31/2001
Subject: Re: 283 Help.

You can't connect just to the brushes. The power must go to one brush and the field. Another wire connects the other brush to the other side of the field. If you can power the engine his way then the motor is OK. You really ought to get a cheap multimeter (I have a $10 one I got at Sears) to be sure the reverse unit is producing voltage at the wires to the motor and that neither the field or armature coils are shorted. BTW, reverse unit fingers can look fine and be not quite making contact. Try pushing them against the drum with a toothpick. jfrodgers@... wrote: > > I am working on a 283 that I recently acquired. It does not run. I > have done the following. Checked the fingers on the reverse unit. > They look fine, and unit has been cleaned. The unit clicks when power > turned on and off like it should. I replaced the brush springs and > cleaned the commutator and lubed the gears. When I hand twirl the > armature the wheels move. I tried the bypass of the tender and with > the diagonal wire and the transformer hooked to the brush wires. It > started smoking near the armature and nothing happened. (The circuit > breaker in the transformer did not trip so it did not detect a short) > I checked the brushes (milk can shaped) and they are about 3/8" long > and clean. Any ideas? I must confess that I am not really savvy at > this. > Sincerely yours, > John Rodgers > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15275	From: Scott Holm	Date: 10/31/2001
Subject: Re: cranky 283

--- david_horn@... wrote: > you need four lead wires - - a base lead and 7-15V lead > connected to the brush posts, and a similar pair assigned to the > field posts. No! You can't connect the base and 7-15 post across the brush posts and the field posts. Doing this will burn one or both out and it won't run right either. The field and armature must be connnected in series, not parallel. Only three wires are needed; base to one side of the field, 7-15 to one armature brush post, and a final patch cord connecting the remaining field post to the remaining brush post. If you want to run the armature in the opposite direction exchange both wires going to the brush posts or the field posts. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15276	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 10/31/2001
Subject: Re: Gilbert PulMor Wheels

Chuck reports: >Only a few models, such as the 307 >Atlantic had Pulmors attached to the front drivers, most other post- >302 Atlantics had them on the rear. BTW, the 307 had no smoke unit, >so it's doubtful the pms were put on the front because of extra >weight there. Chuck: At York, I bought an unknown Atlantic chassis, complete with smoke unit. It has front wheel Pull-Mor tires. That was the first time I had ever seen that and I queried the seller. He said it was to prevent wheelies and that they were all like that. I found it surprising that ACG actually expected their drive rods to work for a living. You are right about the smoke units, they weigh next to nothing. The chassis is balanced to stand on it's tail. With a plastic boiler they would have needed lead in the nose of the Atlantics. Bigger engines had leverage (length) to keep them down. Longer cast chassis and more wheels weighted the fronts enough to counter the torque. Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15277	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 10/31/2001
Subject: Re: 283 Help

John Rodgers asks: >I am working on a 283 that I recently acquired. It does not run. I >have done the following. Checked the fingers on the reverse unit. >They look fine, and unit has been cleaned. The unit clicks when power >turned on and off like it should. >I tried the bypass of the tender and with >the diagonal wire and the transformer hooked to the brush wires. It >started smoking near the armature and nothing happened. Well, if you get smoke on the bypass trick, it usually means you did it wrong. I'm more concered that you don't get anything at all on the reverse unit. You need, first of all, to test the output of the reverse unit with the tender sitting on live rails. If sequencing produces track voltage through the solder drops on the fingerboards in the right order, then check again at the engine plug. If it still is OK, test all the engine points with the shell off. Is the headlight coming on? Is the smoke unit fired up? If not, there is a continuity failure in one of the wires or connections. If they do work, you could have a damaged winding in the field or commutator. Bob Hannon's book will give you the correct continuity values for those. It's just a mechanical device, not an ancient conundrum. There is an answer. Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15278	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/31/2001
Subject: Re: Gilbert PulMor Wheels

Chris & All, The very late smokeless atlantic chassis had two steel plates riveted on them using the smoke unit mounting hole. Only reason I can think of is to provide weight, espcially for going around those right-angle Pikemaster curves! S' David D. PS Speaking of pullmor wheels, anyone tried the new vulcanized ones?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15279	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 11/1/2001
Subject: Re: Gilbert PulMor Wheels

Chris Zizzo wrote: >At York, I bought an unknown Atlantic chassis, complete with smoke >unit. It has front wheel Pull-Mor tires. That was the first time I >had ever seen that... Was it a metal or plastic-shelled Atlantic? Of all the Pulmor steamers I have ever personally seen (dozens beside my own), only the 307 and 308 Atlantics had Pulmors on the front, and that seems to be a regular feature for those particular versions of the Atlantic. (That is, I've never seen a 307 with Pulmor on the REAR. I'm not sure about the one or two 308s I've gazed upon.) Perhaps what others have suggested, that front Pulmors on other models were a factory error (or at least an infrequent variation), is the case. Or maybe it's an "East Coast" thing? :^) >and I queried the seller. He said it was to prevent wheelies and >that they were all like that. And of course, as I'm sure you already know, he's wrong about them being "all like that", since they weren't, as many here can attest. I am often amazed at the ability of some dealers to "ad lib" were AF S gauge is concerned. I've never had any problem with any Pulmor steamer doing wheelies, regardless of where the Pulmor tires were mounted. LATERAL forces on the bigger steamers with long cab overhang and a cab-mounted drawbar (Hudsons and Northerns) have caused much more trouble in my experience. >I found it surprising that ACG actually expected >their drive rods to work for a living. Me too. Could it have been an attempt to increase "prototypical realism"? Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15280	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 11/1/2001
Subject: Re: Gilbert PulMor Wheels

David D. wrote: >The very late smokeless atlantic chassis had two steel plates >riveted on them using the smoke unit mounting hole. Now that you mention it, I have one such chassis in my spare parts box. Gilbert threw together some interesting bits and pieces toward the end, didn't they? >Only reason I can think of is to provide weight, espcially for going >around those right-angle Pikemaster curves! And for bearing down on front-mounted Pulmor tires? :^D >Speaking of pullmor wheels, anyone tried the new vulcanized ones? I would like to know this too. And could someone explain what "vulcanized" means? (I have this image of multiple tiny pointed ears surrounding the rear drivers of a 303 Atlantic.) Does it mean the tires are treated to resist rotting? That would be nice. The repro tires that I applied to the rims of a certain 336 took about a year to crack and flake off. Not encouraging... Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15281	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 11/1/2001
Subject: New Products (Shameless Promotion)

Several New Products are now available from Joe's Train Repair. They include: 1. The Circus Car Flat w/Vans $49.95 (This is the first of a set of at least 5 add-on cars for the Gilbert American Flyer Circus Train. This is a Joe's Train Repair original and exclusive product. Do not be fooled by copycat imitations using black vans and paper stickers. To see this car, go to: http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/photos/circuscar1.jpg Be sure to specify whether you want original AF link coupler or reproduction knuckle coupler trucks.) 2. Vulcanized PulMor rims for AF Steam Locomotives $7.95 each; pair for $15; assembled with original centers and repro insulator, $15 each (specify loco and with or without stud; $3 more for Northern centers) (These are the excellent reproduction rims produced in England with the rubber tire vulcanized to the rim; they provide a more accurate AF profile and have excellent wear qualities) 3. Replacement Can Motors for AF Steam Locomotives 25.95 (DC) or $31.95 (AC). These are Steve Blackburn's excellent replacement motors, and are now available.) 4. Bob Hannon's AF Electrical Book $24.95 5. Joe's Model Train Gel $8.95 kit (Developed by a model railroader (not me), this gel removes decals, numbers, lettering, etc. without ruining the paint below. To read more about this product, go to http://www.erie.net/~joepol/index.html) Look for more new product announcements soon. Joe ===== Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,300 part lines American Models ## S-Helper Service ## Gilbert Rerpoductions Featuring Parts by Toy Trains International joestrainrepair@... Master Card/Visa __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15282	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 11/1/2001
Subject: cranky 283

My bad John!! The armature and field should be in series not parallel as Scott so aptly pointed out. Like I said "by-passing the rev-unit ...must be done very carefully." ;> I've done this test with 4-step and 2-step rev-unit equipped engines and it worked great. Sorry about my faulty recall on exactly how. I should have refrained from sending a repair note when in a rush to leave work, carve pumpkins and take our 'lil Trick o' Treaters around the neighborhood. Get a VOM, leads, diagram, etc, and try again, or just bring it over some evening and we'll get this puppy running. Dave [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15283	From: jfrodgers@rpb-law.com	Date: 11/1/2001
Subject: 283 rehab project

I want to thank all those who responded to my plea for help. First, the female end of the jack panel was wired differently than shown in the manual, which attributed some of the problems. I think the problem is in the engine itself from trying all of the tests suggested and that it probably is the field coil. I will play with it a little more to be sure before I attempt a rewinding job. As Chris said, it's only a motor and it is a learning experience. Thanks to all again. John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15284	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 11/1/2001
Subject: Re: Need advice and help to preserve trains!!!!!!!!!!

gunrjoe@..., who is doing his part, sez: >I know WD40 displaces moisture and helps protect metal but also know that it >shouldn't get into some motor parts. What advice can I pass on to Chuck. >Should they completely dry each piece, oil profusely and wrap in paper until >each piece can be properly evaluated and cleaned up? My first priority would be to get everything out of that building and into a safe house. A tent top is temporary. The building will either be demolished or repaired, both situations of which are anathema to toytrains. Vacate, vacate, vacate. Now. I cannot stress that enough. Then get all of it to a dry, heated workspace with tables you can spread stuff out on. Turn up the heat. Point housefans at the trains and get the drying process going. As this is going on, get the volunteers to steal their wive's hairdryers and start to blow-dry everything individually. WD-40 is not the preferred wipe down for trains, but it beats the alternative, rust. You are not supposed to get it on commutators and brushes, so avoid that. You certainly can wipe down metal pieces and chassis with it and squirt it into all moving parts. A more thorough and appropriate lube and cleaning can be applied later, prior to operation. At this moment you are salvaging and protecting. Compressed air or photo "Dust-Off" can be used to blow out intricate parts or motor bays. After each piece is thoroughly dry, you can wrap it in "newsprint", the paper that newspapers are printed on. Don't use newspapers. The ink will imprint on the trains. You can get short ends of unused rolls from a local newspaper printing plant. Look 'em up. If you explain the preservation need you have as twister victims, they may even donate it to you. The layouts may not make it. Getting them out intact may be beyond your means and ability. The track and structures will need drying and protection as well. If the building is to be repaired, perhaps the layouts can be wrapped tightly (after drying) to protect them. from construction debris. If they cannot be, or if the building is to be razed, then it looks as if "Rayville" as you know it, is gone. Clean off all the good stuff, dry it, wrap it and above all else, catalog it and number the boxes you pack into. One catalog sheet per box. You'll go crazy finding stuff later if you don't. One oddball possibility for the layouts. If you plan to get them out of the building and put them up elswhere, consider sawing them into smaller pieces at appropriate points. Get a real carpenter, one who makes a living with wood, to advise you on this. Above all, get the trains out of that building. Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15285	From: david_horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 11/1/2001
Subject: factory original?

After going through every hall at York and considering some 484/5/6 sets, I circled back and bought a 5-digit set of ACG Santa Fe freight A-B-A's at York from Jim Barker out of MA. They're beautiful, and with only minor cleaning/tuning now run like the wind. However, upon much closer inspection, I've noticed something about the paint job on the dummy a-unit (21910-2)that I thought I'd ask this knowledgeable group about. I can see light brush marks in the dark blue paint on both sides of the yellow stripe on the front hood. There's no difference in the color, simply a subtle textural difference. Elsewhere on this shell there are two small (1/4" diameter) dark blue dabbles of paint where it looks like some touching up was done. Again the paint's color, hew, finish, etc. is an absolute match. All three units are date stamped JAN 1958 inside, and otherwise touch-up free, scratch-free, and cosmetically sound (e.g. only a couple of small chips in the nose decal of the 21910 pwr unit). Could it have been that in Gilbert's zeal to ship product with as few parts wasted as possible, they took it upon themselves to touch things up now and then to pass inspection? PS The boxes weren't displayed with these beauties, but they're in such good condition that I wish I had thought to ask about them. Being the operallector that I am I paid closer attention to axle bearing wear, reverse unit function, etc. at the test track. How were these engines originally boxed? I'm familiar with LTI PA/PB packaging, but haven't seen how ACG did it. If you wrap them in repro corrugated wrap will they fit in repro 15.5" boxes?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15286	From: Mark Preman	Date: 11/1/2001
Subject: American Flyer Trains For Sale

Hey gang, The November list is posted at: http://www.americanflyertrains.com It is loaded with some really neat purchases from York. I also have some SHS and AM stuff left. Send e-mail for list. Mark ===== Mark B. Preman AmericanFlyerTrains.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15287	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 11/1/2001
Subject: New Pullmores

In a message dated 11/01/2001 8:47:13 AM Mountain Standard Time, S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes: > >Speaking of pullmor wheels, anyone tried the new vulcanized ones? > > I would like to know this too. And could someone explain > what "vulcanized" means? (I have this image of multiple tiny pointed > ears surrounding the rear drivers of a 303 Atlantic.) Does it mean > the tires are treated to resist rotting? That would be nice. The > repro tires that I applied to the rims of a certain 336 took about a > year to crack and flake off. Not encouraging... > > Chuck F. > > > Chuck, Vulcanization is a heat and chemical (a sulfurous treatment I think) > process that hardens rubber to make it more durable. Rubber in it's natural > state is very soft and doesn't stand up to abrasive use. Regaeds....Steve > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15288	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 11/1/2001
Subject: Re: factory original?

In a message dated 11/1/01 12:22:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, david_horn@... writes: << Could it have been that in Gilbert's zeal to ship product with as few parts wasted as possible, they took it upon themselves to touch things up now and then to pass inspection? >> Factory touchups have been documented. Some known examples are for MP Eagle, UP Pony Express passenger cars (See Greenberg Vol. 2), and satin silver on 960 series passenger cars, for example. I've seen what appear to be factory touch ups on early Alcos (e.g., chestnut on Silver Flashes). There was occasional touch up of small chrome chips with silver paint (but to be genuine the silver had better match Gilbert satin silver!). It is likely that the touch up on your Santa Fe Alcos is "factory", too. Having said the reassuring comments, however, I have to add that a few "artisans" have gotten very skilled at matching paints, so care is advised when a purchase is considered. One trick, BTW, is to carefully scrape paint from the interior of a piece, dissolve it, and then apply the newly mixed paint to the offending spot on the exterior. Usually, five digit Alcos were packed in the ~13 inch long red and white boxes of the five digit period. The use of wraps for both steam, diesel, operating cars, etc., was discontinued by Gilbert, for the most part, in the five digit era. Hope this helps. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15289	From: Dan Brindell	Date: 11/1/2001
Subject: Re: Gilbert PulMor Wheels

Vulcanization is a process of heating rubber with sulfur to stabilize it. Un-vulcanized rubber is soft, like crepe-soled shoes, and gets even softer and more sticky when warm. So the vulcanized stuff should be better for train tires. Automobile tires are definitely vulcanized and wouldn't be possible without it. Off-subject, I think it is interesting that most people today "get" pop culture references, but don't "get" classical references. Vulcanization was invented by Charles Goodyear in 1839 (I looked it up), and the reference is to Vulcan, the Roman god of fire, not Vulcan, the planet from Star Trek, which of course hadn't been invented yet. My local high school has the same problem. The football team is nicknamed "Trojans", and I actually met somebody who thought the reference was to something you buy at the drugstore, not warriors who fought the ancient Greeks. Whatever.... ----- Original Message ----- From: <eighthmile@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 4:03 AM Subject: [S-Trains] Re: Gilbert PulMor Wheels > David D./Chuck F. wrote: > > > >Speaking of pullmor wheels, anyone tried the new vulcanized ones? > > I would like to know this too. And could someone explain > what "vulcanized" means? (I have this image of multiple tiny pointed > ears surrounding the rear drivers of a 303 Atlantic.) Does it mean > the tires are treated to resist rotting? That would be nice. The > repro tires that I applied to the rims of a certain 336 took about a > year to crack and flake off. Not encouraging... >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15290	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/1/2001
Subject: Re: Gilbert PulMor Wheels

Loved Dan's posting. BTW, the "planet" Vulcan was named after the God, if my "trek memory" serves me well. Live long and prosper! I suspect the vulcanization referred to with pullmor tires is the process by which they are bonded, under heat, to the wheel rim. The original rims are serrated (looks like really fine gear teeth) with the rubber tire molded onto them. BTW, the invention of this process was accidental, caused by some rubber mixture boiling over and "frying" on the stove top. Mr. Goodyear noted the properties of his "boo-boo" and became wealthy! Amazing how many modern materials came from accidents while experimenting with other stuff. If it had been me, I'd just have been in the dog-house for messing up the kitchen! ;-) S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15292	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 11/2/2001
Subject: Re: Gilbert PulMor Wheels

Many thanx to all for the info about vulcanizing rubber. Fascinating. Very logical. ,8^l I believe David is correct about Spock's home planet being named after Vulcan the god. That's the link that I was jabbing at. The repro rubber tires that I referred to were sold a few years ago as a "kit" for replacing original Pulmor tires that had been damaged. A tube of Pliobond cement was included to make the replacement stay put. Of course, the remains of the factory pm tire had to be removed first. (The rims on my 336 were not serrated.) The cement worked well, but the tires themselves soon began to crack and break apart long before they had a chance to wear out. That's one product I won't use again. The new bonded replacements sound much more promising, a much more logical choice. Spock would approve. Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15293	From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi	Date: 11/2/2001
Subject: Humor

My daughter found this site which lists some humorous model train stuff, including Haiku, one of which she sent me. Sorry it is O, but humor is humor. http://users.foxvalley.net/~osn/Laughing.htm Rance Velapoldi

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15294	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/2/2001
Subject: Re: Humor

Rance, Super, Now saved in "Favorites."\ You sure it's aimed at O? Note this Haiku there: Model Railroad Haiku Poetry I shall convert you If your scale is not my scale, Lest your soul be lost. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15295	From: David	Date: 11/2/2001
Subject: Auction of the Week 11/2

Ok this is our auction for the week. Its a doozie now. Someone somewhere really needs these rare and exciting parts.... Auction #1658085273

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15296	From: Rick Evans	Date: 11/2/2001
Subject: Re: Hot Wheels

James Tanley wrote: **((Does anyone know anything about Hot Wheels? A friend ha come upon a large cache & is interested in pricing & selling them.))** I feel that the best Hot Wheel price guide is by TOMAC.(Hope I spelled the author's name right, haven't been able to find my book, due for a new one anyway!!). You might be able to pick one up at a book store, if not, they can order it for you,...about $30, I believe. Just like any train price guide,...it is just a guide! I have sold off the rack $1 Hot wheels for $15!!!! Of course the older HW's are worth some money,..some BIG money, some not! Some are limited editions, which will bring a higher $. Check ebay's HW's auctions to see how things are selling. They can also be sold at local swap meets or train shows. Curious to just how large of a cache he has!! 20? 30? 100? 547?? Gee,,all that pricing and selling COULD be a bother,...he had better just send them to me!! Rick "need to sell more of my HW's to support my train habit" Evans.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15297	From: Rick Evans	Date: 11/2/2001
Subject: Does CTT know NASG exists...??

While sitting in my favorite reading room (if ya know what I mean), I was thumbing through the Jan. issue of Classic Toy Trains, and came across an article that bugged me when I first read it! "Join the Club" is the article, which mentioned several toy train clubs. Of course, NASG, or any other American Flyer club, were not mentioned. Now I'm assuming there might be Flyer people in TTOS. The clubs listed were: TCA LCCA TTOS LOTS KCC LRRC Marx MTHRRC . The smallest club being Marx with a whopping 500 members! I know it has been mentioned here,..but how many members does the NASG have? (save me from me counting them all in my directory!) It seems that if we,(the NASG) can't be recognized in THE, (or one of THE) major toy train magazines,...how CAN we contact all the "S"er's out there?? Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15298	From: Scott Holm	Date: 11/2/2001
Subject: 930 on Ebay

Undaunted, the seller is putting up the caboose for auction a third time and the minimum bid is once again 9.99 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Find a job, post your resume. http://careers.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15299	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 11/2/2001
Subject: Re: Does CTT know NASG exists...??

In a message dated 11/2/01 2:09:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, comic@... writes: << Of course, NASG, or any other American Flyer club, were not mentioned. Now I'm assuming there might be Flyer people in TTOS. The clubs listed were: TCA LCCA TTOS LOTS KCC LRRC Marx MTHRRC . The smallest club being Marx with a whopping 500 members! I know it has been mentioned here,..but how many members does the NASG have? (save me from me counting them all in my directory!) It seems that if we, (the NASG) can't be recognized in THE, (or one of THE) major toy train magazines,...how CAN we contact all the "S"er's out there?? >> Just another example of CTT's "bush league" treatment of S gauge and American Flyer. Have you noticed that most of the articles (with a few isolated pleasant surprises) devoted to Flyer in CTT are just plain awful and are but sources of misinformation? Remember the Flyer Hudson article from the summer? Remember from earlier in the year picture of a dummy 473 knuckle coupler PA butted up against an aluminum link coupler 660 as if this would pass as a picture of a Santa Fe set? As it pertains to vintage Gilbert Flyer, the article on train values in the November issue is badly flawed. CTT did not elect to cover the NASG convention this summer, too. BTW, the TTOS does have Flyer members (I'm one of them). RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15300	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 11/2/2001
Subject: Re: Does CTT know NASG exists...??

The NASG BOT is discussing the placing of Ads in CTT. We want to do them on a regular basis and possibly have joint ads with S companies. One thing is certain. The CTT ad's are very expensive. S is "S"nubbed in almost every mainstream magazine whether it's scale or Flyer. I guess we have to keep trying to wake 'em up. Roy --- In S-Trains@y..., rbubeck327@a... wrote: > In a message dated 11/2/01 2:09:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, > comic@d... writes: > > << Of course, NASG, or any other American Flyer club, were not > mentioned. Now I'm assuming there might be Flyer people in TTOS. The > clubs listed were: TCA LCCA TTOS LOTS KCC LRRC Marx MTHRRC . > The smallest club being Marx with a whopping 500 members! I know it > has been mentioned here,..but how many members does the NASG have? > (save me from me counting them all in my directory!) > > It seems that if we, (the NASG) can't be recognized in THE, (or one of > THE) major toy train magazines,...how CAN we contact all the "S"er's > out there?? >> > > Just another example of CTT's "bush league" treatment of S gauge and American > Flyer. Have you noticed that most of the articles (with a few isolated > pleasant surprises) devoted to Flyer in CTT are just plain awful and are but > sources of misinformation? Remember the Flyer Hudson article from the summer? > Remember from earlier in the year picture of a dummy 473 knuckle coupler PA > butted up against an aluminum link coupler 660 as if this would pass as a > picture of a Santa Fe set? As it pertains to vintage Gilbert Flyer, the > article on train values in the November issue is badly flawed. CTT did not > elect to cover the NASG convention this summer, too. > > BTW, the TTOS does have Flyer members (I'm one of them). > > RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15301	From: Rick Evans	Date: 11/2/2001
Subject: Current issue of CTT......

However,...I DID enjoy the "S" layout in the current issue of CTT!! Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15302	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 11/2/2001
Subject: RW Jackson

To all: I tried to send Bob Jackson an e-mail (rwjackson@...) and it came back -----Original Message----- Subject: Delivery failure (rwjackson@...) Your message has encountered delivery problems to the following recipient(s): rwjackson@... Delivery failed 550 unknown user <rwjackson@...> No recipients were successfully delivered to. ------------------ Does anyone know how to contact Bob? Thorin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15303	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 11/2/2001
Subject: TTOS

In this months issue of "THE BULLETIN" The TTOS Mag IS a Article on page 20, 21 & 23 It s a great article called "The worlds most beautifully proportioned diesels" It's all about AF's PA's Plenty of pics It covers the Rocket , The Silver flash. THE NP HH, SANTA FE Both War Bonnet and the Blue & Yellow Text is by Dan Walkiewicz I go to alot of their meets and am always wecome even though most are "L" fans...There is a seperate group in our division for Flyer & at every meet there is always a Flyer layout to run our trains on ....the "L" guys don't get that chance every meet as we do.....Mike S. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15304	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 11/2/2001
Subject: CTT NASG

Does CTT have a page for clubs to place an ad for free or at a discount where we (NASG) place an ad along with this list and how to get on it.....Mike S. ( I'm willing to throw in a buck) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15305	From: riechert@pop.phnx.qwest.net	Date: 11/2/2001
Subject: CTT or ????

All the CTT bashing lately has got me wondering. I'm not particularly impressed with their coverage of Flyer, or anything else S for that matter. My primary interest is AFlyer but I also enjoy reading other aspects of the S world. Since my subscription for CTT is up soon, would my dollars be better spent on some other mag like S-Guagian? I haven't seen any others to compare. Jerry -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ .

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15306	From: Scott Brown	Date: 11/2/2001
Subject: Trains are for kids too.

Hi guys, I was reminded a week or so ago of Pete Hildenbrand's Christmas Train Project. If you are not familiar, Pete takes AF trains and puts together sets for children that might not otherwise have the opportunity to own one, and gives the trains to them at Christmas. Last year was the first year that I heard of his project and I wasn't able to participate. So, this year I started looking for reasonable priced engines, sets, etc on ebay. I finally won one the other day and will have it shipped to Pete. I wanted to encourage you all to do the same if you can. It doesn't have to be a perfect set or have lots of pieces. I won a set that needs some repairs and has 2 cars and a caboose with the 21160 engine. I got it for under $40. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1654221235 I hope to find some more like this. If you can participate please consider it.This is a very worthy project and one that several children benefited from last year. Let's make a train Christmas for more children this year. I have included Pete's msg to me about what he does and can use. You can contact Pete directly at : djandpete@... or contact me: sbrown56@... Thanks Scott Brown Atlantic Coast S Gaugers Washington & Old Dominion Division "Hi, Scott, --We accept, encourage, and gratefully appreciate any item in any condition that we include to enhance the train experience for these students/ children. To give you an idea of the final " product" , the set has the essential track, transformer, engine and cars. I add smoke fluid, Plasticville, trucks, autos, a wooden whistle, uncoupler and anything else we come across. Above all else, Scott, keep your ears open for those girls and boys who just have to have a train.--- Pete djandpete@..." [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15307	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 11/2/2001
Subject: Re: Gilbert PulMor Wheels

Dan Brindell said: "I think it is interesting that most people today "get" pop culture references, but don't "get" classical references. Vulcanization was invented by Charles Goodyear in 1839 (I looked it up), and the reference is to Vulcan, the Roman god of fire, not Vulcan, the planet from Star Trek, which of course hadn't been invented yet. My local high school has the same problem. The football team is nicknamed "Trojans", and I actually met somebody who thought the reference was to something you buy at the drugstore, not warriors who fought the ancient Greeks." How about that movie, "Remember the Titans"? What, the rocket ships, then? Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15308	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 11/2/2001
Subject: Auction of the Week 11/2

David laments: Ok this is our auction for the week. Its a doozie now. Someone somewhere really needs these rare and exciting parts.... Auction #1658085273 David: Within the year, you will be buying two of them from Doug Peck for the price he just paid for four. Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15309	From: carl@wsbt.com	Date: 11/2/2001
Subject: Speaking of traction tires and other New web pages

Three new pages on Carl's Web Site. With all of the discussion about traction tires on the front or the rear, here's an idea that uses both. Also I have added some details for converting Plasticvilles "O" gauge signal bridge to "S". Here's an Idea I used to make signals easy to install and remove from the layout. All of these and more at: http://list.wsbt.com/af And then Click on the "Hints and Tips" link Carl

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15310	From: Charlie&Edith	Date: 11/2/2001
Subject: Transformer

Greetings ... Looking for a home for a transformer (1270L), the remaining part of the decal indicates American Flyer-Chicago, 2 posts, about 12 volts output, braided cord, size is approximately 2 1/2"W. by 3 1/2"L. by 2 1/2"H, with a black wrinkle-finished case. A favorable exchange is available for a good home. Thanks, Charlie

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15311	From: Rick Evans	Date: 11/2/2001
Subject: Carl's phone plug connections......

As I have told carl before,..I enjoy his site! I like the phone jack plug idea,....I can see using that idea in the future! Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15312	From: Rick Evans	Date: 11/2/2001
Subject: S-Trains members .....669 of us!

When I got by computer out of the shop, I was surprized to see the number of members got up to 674 I believe,....fell back now to 669. Hmmmm....maybe they quit when I started posting again!! :-) Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15313	From: Rick Evans	Date: 11/3/2001
Subject: CTT talk over @ the toy train list.......

Wow!! I thought just we "S"ers had a gripe with CTT!! If you aren't on the Toy-Train list,..you should go to the Yahoo Groups site and check out what they are saying about CTT. And since my last post about S-Train members,..we lost two more!! Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15314	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 11/3/2001
Subject: Re: CTT or ????

CTT does not have a club page like S Gaugian. I enjoy the history of all scales which is why I still subscribe to CTT even though I am an AF guy. Join the NASG and get our well done Dispatch every other month. S-Gaugian is your only other S Gauge choice. Staying on the NPSG branchline of NASG track, Glenn NASG Secretary "riechert@..." wrote: All the CTT bashing lately has got me wondering. I'm not particularly impressed with their coverage of Flyer, or anything else S for that matter. My primary interest is AFlyer but I also enjoy reading other aspects of the S world. Since my subscription for CTT is up soon, would my dollars be better spent on some other mag like S-Guagian? I haven't seen any others to compare. Jerry

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15315	From: Doug Peck	Date: 11/3/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1194

<<David laments: Ok this is our auction for the week. Its a doozie now. Someone somewhere really needs these rare and exciting parts.... Auction #1658085273 David: Within the year, you will be buying two of them from Doug Peck for the price he just paid for four. Chris Zizzo >> We frequently get asked for sideframe assemblies. A few years ago, I had several hundred hard (non-bendable.....there's the key!) replacement sideframes made for both PA and GP7 units. But the sheet-metal straps like these have NOT been made (yet!) So.....I'm always on the lookout for these. And even though these were the less-requested LC versions, that's OK. We can convert them to KC assemblies! So, once again, "Thanks, David !!!!! " I might never have seen these without your posting! <G> Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15316	From: gunrjoe@aol.com	Date: 11/3/2001
Subject: Lesson About Auctions

Wanted to pass a lesson learned by myself to any of my fellow "new guys" to this hobby. I skipped a country auction this week because on the web site it said there was much non train items for sale and some Marx and Lionel trains. A guy I know just called me and said there was a ton of flyer. After he gave me examples of Tuscan colored passenger cars going for $3.00 each, some new lionel transformers in boxes going for the same (the light came on that such items could be traded for flyer), pallets of track for very little and plastic boxes of accessories going for very little, I had to tell him to stop telling me all as it was so drepressing. Boy, I felt like jumping out the window but realized that I only live in a one story house. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15317	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/3/2001
Subject: Re: S-Trains members .....669 of us!

Rick, Hmm, maybe you're like the new Preacher, just out of school, who is assigned a small rural church. His first Sunday he had a house-full- all 74 members. After Ten weeks of "brilliant" preaching, his membership had grown to 17 attendees, and his own wife was threatening to join the nearby Baptist church! At this rate, he figured he had about two weeks left in his career. ;-) S' David D. PS, and my point was??? I dunno, I lost track! (required RR connection in post) Hey, I just woke up.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15318	From: Jay	Date: 11/3/2001
Subject: Track

Hello, Since I am new to S guage, could anyone comment on the pros & Cons of Gargraves vs. American Models vs. AF track. I am particularly interested on compatability with each other and with AF stock of the 50's and later. Jay -- Jay _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15319	From: Bob	Date: 11/3/2001
Subject: M.T.H. Seaboard Coal Loader ???

Dear Group, I just got a phone call from my mother who said that her friend ,who owens a hobby center about 30 miles from me,said that he just got in the M.T.H. version of the A.F. Seaboard Coal Loader !!? two questions:Does anyone know if M.T.H. was, is, coming out with one ?(I didn't)....Is Lionel still coming out with there's ?? Please post any and all answers.Thanks Bob

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15320	From: Dick Kuepper	Date: 11/3/2001
Subject: Interesting photos

I found this site, which has some interesting railroad photos. http://www.webshots.com/photos/wheels.html Enjoy! Dick [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15321	From: Dick Kuepper	Date: 11/3/2001
Subject: Interesting Photos

I found this site, which has some interesting railroad photos. http://www.webshots.com/photos/wheels.html Enjoy! Dick [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15322	From: Jim Hannawald	Date: 11/3/2001
Subject: Clean Wheels

Does anyone on the list have a simple method or solution to clean the gunk off the wheels on AF cars that have been in storage for many years? Thanks, Jim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15323	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/3/2001
Subject: Re: Clean Wheels

Jim, On the plastic wheels, I take a flat-bladed screwdriver that isn't dinged up. I lay the tip against the wheel at an angle, such as you would use to put a chisel against a piece of wood to plane it. Then I turn the wheel with my other hand (actually turning the other wheel on that axle) against the blade, and the gunk just peels off. done carefully, you don't damage the wheel. A cloth with plastic-compatible tuner cleaner on it can then be rubbed against the wheel to rid of the last bits and shine it up. Brass wheels get the same treatment, then I polish then with my buffer. Buffers can grab things and throw them, so you need a bit of experience with using them. I suspect you could use some 400 grit wet/dry paper with water or WD-40 or similar product. Place the paper against the wheel surfaces (you will probably have to fold the paper to get the wheel face and flange) and spin it back and forth using the other wheel until the wheel shines. A scratchy-pad would also work well, instead of the paper. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15324	From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com	Date: 11/3/2001
Subject: Help Fast

Hi All, can anyone steer me to the wiring diagram for installing the can motors using a bridge rectifier. I know there is a good one out there, but I can't find it. I'm in the middle of replacing the motor in my 336 and can't seem to get it right with the diagram I have. Thanks, Chris Burger [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15325	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/3/2001
Subject: Re: Track

Pretty much interchangeable, except I have no experience with the latest Gargraves switches (bought one but have not installed it yet). Gargraves ia a perfect height match with AF on rubber roadbed. Af switches work well with Gargraves. Some people shin the Flyer switches up. I let mine hang off the track pins with about a 1/32 air gap underneath them. I use a piece of roadbed that contains the beveled edge on the edge of switches so the air gap isn't visible.Flyer switches are nice because they route power and come with the switch machines ready to use. Gargraves newer switches also have this advantage if you buy the powered ones. The big plus for Gargraves track is that when ballasted it is, to me, infinitely better looking than Flyer. Both are okay for operation, except Flyer yields a little better traction in curves. Given all the above, pick the factors that matter most to you. Jay wrote: > > Hello, > Since I am new to S guage, could anyone comment on the pros & Cons of > Gargraves vs. American Models vs. AF track. I am particularly > interested on compatability with each other and with AF stock of the > 50's and later. > Jay > -- > Jay > > _________________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15326	From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com	Date: 11/3/2001
Subject: Need links to our website

<A HREF="http://imgserv.adbutler.com/adserve/;ID=127172;size=468x60;setID=42555;aff=on;loc=0;type=iframe">Click here: Miami Valley S Gaugers</A> If anyone on the list can add our link to there website for the MVSG , we would greatly appreciate it. It will have all the information on it for the 2002 S-Spree in Dayton(Middletown) Ohio. It will have info on the Special Spree Car and Hotel Info. There will also be an opportunity for a limited number of guests to sign up for the Cincinati Museum Tour. This includes the Cincinnati In Motion Exhibit ,plus a behind the scenes tour of the Cincinnati Union Terminal. This is one Spree not to be missed. If I'm not mistaken, and I could be, but I think arrangements have been made to have CTT there to do a story . I hope a lot of you can plan to attend in 2002. I will also have my Christmas Display up and open to the Spree guests. It will be a to die for S-Spree. TRUST ME! But if anyone can link to us, especially NASG, and all the different club members out there, it would be greatly appreciated. I will also try to link our site with anyone who would like us too. Thanks, Chris Burger MVSG PS contact me off list to let me know if you can do this. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15327	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/3/2001
Subject: Re: Clean Wheels

I get the worst of it off by scraping with a sharp screwdriber blade. I rotate the wheel against the blade. Jim Hannawald wrote: > > Does anyone on the list have a simple method or solution to clean the gunk off the wheels on AF cars that have been in storage for many years? > > Thanks, > > Jim > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15328	From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com	Date: 11/3/2001
Subject: Check out Miami Valley S Gaugers

<A HREF="http://www.mvsg.freehomepage.com/">Click here: Miami Valley S Gaugers http://www.mvsg.freehomepage.com/</A> sorry about my first post on the link. The URL is www.mvsg.freehomepage.com Thanks again. Chris [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15329	From: jackress@yahoo.com	Date: 11/3/2001
Subject: The all plastic red 630 Caboose

I have not checked back in since last week. I enjoy fixing more then computing, and I understand fixing way more. I have a tough time understanding all the computer stuff. My e-mail address is clarson700@... I stared looking at the conversion at yahoogroups, and chickened out fast. I know my computer works right now, so if it isn't broke I don't mess with it. I was able to click on the "photos" to the left, and I was able to put two pictures of this boreing old caboose over there. I can see them, so my computer must still be working. As far as the reassembling goes, it won't be with glue. That stuff is brutal.The upper part of the caboose body is similar to the corners of boxcar/reefer bodies that are fastioned with the floor pins. So I'm going to go that way, but with just two pins. And thanks to everyone for not blowing me out of the water.Happy reading. Jack Larson clarson700@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15330	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 11/4/2001
Subject: Re: Track

Chuck Smith wrote: >Pretty much interchangeable, except I have no experience with the latest >Gargraves switches (bought one but have not installed it yet). > The Gargraves switches I bought I consider to be a mistake. Your engines with hot shoes will not run. Also, you will have to set the wheels on your orginal Gilbert rolling stock further apart to get them to run through the switches smoothly. I have gotten the link coupler trucks and the pikemaster ones to run pretty well by doing this. I have not had good luck with the 900 series trucks. The wheel spacing for newer rolling stock like SHS and American Models is fine right out of the box. Gilbert set the wheels closer together for some reason? I am looking at ways to modify original AF switches so that they look a little more like Gargraves, and use them to replace the Gargraves ones. The track has been fine. The tin plate stuff does have a very thin layer of plating on it. I have wondered what it would take to wear through that. You might want to go to the stainless type. I have been able to bend the tinplace track to pikemaster (16" or so) radius.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15331	From: Ogauge749050467@aol.com	Date: 11/4/2001
Subject: interesting ebay

Hi I guess you've all seen ebay# 1656636309. An interesting item. Frank D [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15332	From: dav21248@aol.com	Date: 11/4/2001
Subject: NASG DISPATCH

I was wondering if anyone has received their September 2001 #5 Dispatch issue yet? Please let me know.I have not received mine yet. Thanks, Dave Loucks dav21248@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15333	From: Don Thompson	Date: 11/4/2001
Subject: Re: NASG DISPATCH arrives

Dear Dave, We got them last week in New Jersey. Don dav21248@... wrote: > I was wondering if anyone has received their September 2001 #5 > Dispatch issue yet? Please let me know.I have not received > mine yet. > Thanks, > Dave Loucks > dav21248@... > > -- -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15334	From: gunrjoe@aol.com	Date: 11/4/2001
Subject: are some s stations really O?

here's one for you s gurus..the books talk about how items such as my 612 station were carryovers from before the war. I also just picked up a flyertown No.96 ticket office. The No. 96 is not listed in any of my flyer books???. I measured the roof height on both and found them the same. Does this mean that they are both really 'O' gauge?? I tranlate the real heighth to 20 feet for both using 3/16 to 1', which seems high for S. Was the no. 96 not carried over???Acually it sure looks nice on the layout and does not take up alot of space like the Mystic station does. Where can I find a discussion or pictures of items like the Flyertown N0.96??? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15335	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 11/4/2001
Subject: Re: are some s stations really O?

In a message dated 11/4/01 3:15:21 PM, gunrjoe@... writes: << I also just picked up a Flyertown No. 96 ticket office. The No. 96 is not listed in any of my flyer books???. I measured the roof height on both and found them the same. Does this mean that they are both really 'O' gauge?? >> The No. 96 is an American Flyer Manufacturing Company ("Chicago Flyer") accessory made up from 1923 to about 1935. This accessory was intended for prewar O gauge use. The No. 96 is not part of the Gilbert legacy and so your are not finding it in books that emphasize AF S gauge. The 612 is a Gilbert-designed ("New Haven Flyer") prewar accessory and, like all of the Mystic station variants, was carried over into postwar production by Gilbert, but often with some change in paint scheme or color hue. All of the Mystic station variants (597, 612, and 589) are arguably "bigger" than S and closer to O scale, as well. To read more about the No. 96, see page 98 in "Greenberg's Guide to American Flyer Wide Gauge" by A. R. Schuweiler from 1989, which is way, way, ... out of print. Nothing wrong with using a No. 96 with S gauge Flyer if you are going for a tinplate look. Lithographed pieces are in vogue, anyway. Hope this helps. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15336	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/4/2001
Subject: Flyer Chat tonite, I'll be late!

Hi all, Don't forget, Flyer Chat tonite; be there, or be square! I'll drop in late, we're going to Grass Valley to see Linda's Dad. Later Dudes! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15337	From: Clifford Manning	Date: 11/4/2001
Subject: 583/ 583A Crane

I need a parts diagram for the 583/ 583A Electric Crane. If not available, could some one diagram the parts that are used to attach the Crane Cab to the Motor. I am missing what looks to be 2 or three of those parts that are on the inside of the cab that hold it on. I am also not sure of the washer set up under the cab. Those parts may not all be there also. I have the operating instructions but can not find a parts diagram. Any additional help would be appreceiated. Clifford Manning Topeka, ks

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15338	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 11/4/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1195

In a message dated 11/04/2001 5:24:08 AM Mountain Standard Time, S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes: > Hi All, > can anyone steer me to the wiring diagram for installing the can motors > using a bridge rectifier. I know there is a good one out there, but I can't > > find it. I'm in the middle of replacing the motor in my 336 and can't seem > to > get it right with the diagram I have. Thanks, Chris Burger > > > Chris, if that's one of our motors/kit it's as easy as falling off a log. You should have received a 4 page how to booklet with it. Need one? get it from whomever you bought it from, or I can send you one. Steve Blackburn "S-n'-S" Trains [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15339	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/4/2001
Subject: Chat tonite

Hi all, I got back around 7PM PST, but couldn't get logged onto the chat system. It just hung in the middle of logging me on. Hmmm. Yahoo'd again, and I am using OE too! Hope y'all had a great time. Train show next weekend, doubt I'll get back in time to chat, but I'll be doin' trains! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15340	From: Rance and Bente Velapoldi	Date: 11/5/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1195

Hi again: This is a repeat of an earlier message. It would be great to have the wiring diagram for S-n-S replacement can motor that includes the on-off switch for going from ac to dc operation. It would be extremely useful to have an article in the Dispatch, on-line, or whatever as I think I would like to go this route with the layout I am planning, starting to build, etc. Scale and hi-rail operation is the objective, and I have closed frog switches from BK enterprises to help this along. Question 2: how is the conversion going for the can motors for AF (and L) diesels? Look forward to a conversion kit for those also. Regards to all: Rance Velapoldi boss31@... wrote: > In a message dated 11/04/2001 5:24:08 AM Mountain Standard Time, > S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes: > > > Hi All, > > can anyone steer me to the wiring diagram for installing the can motors > > using a bridge rectifier. I know there is a good one out there, but I can't > > > > find it. I'm in the middle of replacing the motor in my 336 and can't seem > > to > > get it right with the diagram I have. Thanks, Chris Burger > > > > > > > > Chris, if that's one of our motors/kit it's as easy as falling off a log. You > should have received a 4 page how to booklet with it. Need one? get it from > whomever you bought it from, or I can send you one. > > Steve Blackburn "S-n'-S" Trains > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15341	From: Wayne and Alice Beachy	Date: 11/5/2001
Subject: Smoke units

Hi All, Does anyone have any suggestions as to where I can find smoke units to place inside a structure for a chimney or house on fire display? Prefer new product not old flyer. Thanks. Wayne Beachy Atlantic Coast S Gaugers Virginia Central Division Don't forget our big S gauge show Nov. 17 in Richmond Virginia [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15342	From: gino restivo	Date: 11/5/2001
Subject: Re: Smoke units

hi all , you can find them under the name " SUETHE " , in the Walther's catalog walthers.com ? you local hobby shop can get them for you , from walthers they do have a variety of size's to fit "ho" size stm loco's etc . have fun , gino -----Original Message----- From: Wayne and Alice Beachy <abeachy@...> To: S-Trains <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>; Showcase <showcaseline@yahoogroups.com> Date: Monday, November 05, 2001 5:59 AM Subject: [S-Trains] Smoke units >Hi All, > >Does anyone have any suggestions as to where I can find smoke units to place inside a structure for a chimney or house on fire display? Prefer new product not old flyer. Thanks. > >Wayne Beachy >Atlantic Coast S Gaugers >Virginia Central Division >Don't forget our big S gauge show Nov. 17 in Richmond Virginia > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > ---------------------------------------------------- Sign Up for NetZero Platinum Today Only $9.95 per month! http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15343	From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com	Date: 11/5/2001
Subject: Check out Seuthe product line page

<A HREF="http://www.enginetender.com/667m.htm">Click here: Seuthe product line page</A> http://www.enginetender.com/667m.htm Try This place Wayne. I will be ordering some for my layout from here. Chris Burger [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15344	From: pdng@aol.com	Date: 11/5/2001
Subject: American Flyer 3 Rail pickup

Hi Guys, I know this is an S list, But buy chance I thought I would ask if anybody would have A 3 rail pick up for the large Coleman Flyer Caboose for the light. Thanks for your help. Paul [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15345	From: Robichaud, Thomas Jr (Thomas)	Date: 11/5/2001
Subject: Re: Smoke units

Yo: The other option is to contact MTH parts department and purchase the smoke units they install in the steam locomotives. They come with a blower which pumps out a ton of smoke. I have one in a burning building, looks like it's really burning. Tom -----Original Message----- From: gino restivo [mailto:lastman@...] Sent: Monday, November 05, 2001 8:53 AM To: S-Trains; Showcase; Wayne and Alice Beachy Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Smoke units hi all , you can find them under the name " SUETHE " , in the Walther's catalog walthers.com ? you local hobby shop can get them for you , from walthers they do have a variety of size's to fit "ho" size stm loco's etc . have fun , gino -----Original Message----- From: Wayne and Alice Beachy <abeachy@...> To: S-Trains <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>; Showcase <showcaseline@yahoogroups.com> Date: Monday, November 05, 2001 5:59 AM Subject: [S-Trains] Smoke units >Hi All, > >Does anyone have any suggestions as to where I can find smoke units to place inside a structure for a chimney or house on fire display? Prefer new product not old flyer. Thanks. > >Wayne Beachy >Atlantic Coast S Gaugers >Virginia Central Division >Don't forget our big S gauge show Nov. 17 in Richmond Virginia > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > ---------------------------------------------------- Sign Up for NetZero Platinum Today Only $9.95 per month! http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97 S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15346	From: Bob	Date: 11/5/2001
Subject: Gilbert Repro.......

Dear Group, Does anyone know if Gilbert Repro.Co. has a website that I can log onto and see what they have to offer ?? I recently ordered and recieved a repro of the #772 Checkerboard Water Towel and I am so impressed by it I want to order some more repro items . Please post any and all answers. "S" incerely....Bob S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15347	From: Wayne and Alice Beachy	Date: 11/5/2001
Subject: Thanks

Hi All, I received several good suggestions for smoke units for a structure. Thanks to all of you. Wayne Beachy Atlantic Coast S Gaugers Virginia Central Division http://waynestrains.homestead.com/acsgindex.html [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15348	From: Jim Hannawald	Date: 11/5/2001
Subject: clean wheels

Thanks to all of you who responded to my request on what to use to clean up those old dirty wheels. Jim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15349	From: louis glumac	Date: 11/5/2001
Subject: FOR SALE

hi i have some cars for sale this week, 718-45$ 650-30$ 803- a few of them 10 to 20 $\ 24508 pm -10$ 623, 923-13$ 929-10$ 925- 12$ and 16$ 912- 55$ and 25$ 934-18$ 42597 10$ 928 12 to 30$ 24575 - pm - 33$ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15350	From: Dan Brindell	Date: 11/5/2001
Subject: Re: Gilbert Repro.......

Try http://www.ssstrains.com/ or http://www.ssstrains.com/GilbertReproductions1.htm Dan B. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob" <YAZFACTS@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, November 05, 2001 3:39 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Gilbert Repro....... > Dear Group, > Does anyone know if Gilbert Repro.Co. has a website that I > can log onto and see what they have to offer ?? I recently ordered and > recieved a repro of the #772 Checkerboard Water Towel and I am so > impressed by it I want to order some more repro items . Please post > any and all answers. > "S" incerely....Bob S. > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15351	From: Dan Brindell	Date: 11/5/2001
Subject: Re: Smoke units

There is a company that makes a smoke unit that runs on atomized water instead of smoke fluid. They claim it is safer and the water evaporates so it doesn't rust your stuff. A bit hard to believe, and I haven't used the product myself so I can't vouch for it, but maybe worth checking out. The web site is www.modelsteam.com. Dan B. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne and Alice Beachy" <abeachy@...> To: "S-Trains" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>; "Showcase" <showcaseline@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, November 05, 2001 5:58 AM Subject: [S-Trains] Smoke units > Hi All, > > Does anyone have any suggestions as to where I can find smoke units to place inside a structure for a chimney or house on fire display? Prefer new product not old flyer. Thanks. > > Wayne Beachy > Atlantic Coast S Gaugers > Virginia Central Division > Don't forget our big S gauge show Nov. 17 in Richmond Virginia > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15352	From: eddie rickenbacker	Date: 11/5/2001
Subject: real rr books

hey, all-my neighbor was cleaning house, and has some real rail books she wants to sell-contact me for a listing- john marganski __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Find a job, post your resume. http://careers.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15353	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 11/6/2001
Subject: More New Parts

Here are some more parts recently added to our parts list. For a free copy of our Parts Listing of American Flyer S, HO, prewar O and Chicago Flyer parts, please send a double-stamped, preaddressed business (#10) envelope to: Joe's Train Repair 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 1447A 18 volt bulb w/correct no. of threads 1.00 (same as PA9723; plastic engines) 1449A 14 volt bulb w/correct no. of threads 1.00 (same as PA8999; cast steam locos) JTR-234 Smoke-in-tender gasket 1.50 JTR-301 Scale card (great for figures/vehicles) 4.95 JTR-302 24 inch S gauge 1:64 ruler 12.95 JTR-303 6 inch S Gauge 1:64 Ruler 2.95 JTR-304 Scale conversion card (go between scales) 4.95 JTR-305 Double-end red and black ins. test leads 1.50 793-5 Roof with 2 vents (Union Station) 35.00 XA9249 Crane car rear handwheel with shaft 7.50 XA9249A Crane car side handwheel with shaft 6.50 PA9352 HO Hudson trailing truck (right side) 2.50 PA9353 HO Hudson trailing truck (left side) 2.50 XA10523-1 Smoke unit top plate assembly (with gasket and solder lugs) 4.50 PA10523-2 Smoke unit top gasket 1.50 PA10522 Smoke unit gasket (fits into top chamber) 1.50 PA10781 Light support crossbar (for 759/760) 6.25 PA10782 Light Housing (for 759/760) 3.00 PA11A211 Old-Time Loco/Streamline Passenger Car truckside 2.50 XA11290 771 Cattle coral roof (green crackle) 7.50 PA11B913BLK GP-7 Pilot (KC version; black) 6.25 PA11B913GRY GP-7 Pilot (KC version; gray) 6.25 PA12A894 Heavyweight Passenger Car truckside 2.50 PA25057 TNT Exploding Boxcar End (silver) 8.50 Joe ===== Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,300 part lines American Models ## S-Helper Service ## Gilbert Rerpoductions Featuring Parts by Toy Trains International joestrainrepair@... Master Card/Visa __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Find a job, post your resume. http://careers.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15354	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 11/6/2001
Subject: Clean those wheels with this repro

Bob S. said: > I recently ordered and received a repro of the #772 Checkerboard Water Towel. . . You know, I'm thinking this might be good for Jim Hannawald who was requesting info on what to use to clean up those old dirty wheels. My wife might like a couple for the kitchen, too. Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15355	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/6/2001
Subject: Re: Clean those wheels with this repro

Chris, YOU BAD!! ROFL! David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15356	From: Horn, David	Date: 11/6/2001
Subject: Insta Smoke with water

Neat, but in effect a miniature ultra-sonic humidifier like you can buy at drug stores for health purposes. As such, I don't know how they can claim that its discharge or vapor is exempt from the otherwise normal laws of the water cycle - evaporation, condensation, precipitation. My guess is if you ran these often enough you will experience some moisture accumulation on objects or surfaces "down wind". Same as oily residue with smoke units using smoke fluid, except with water. Let me know if these actually avoid that somehow, I'd be very interested to understand how.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15357	From: Doug Peck	Date: 11/6/2001
Subject: Re: PLHS website

For those who have not yet discovered it, our new revamped and improved website now includes our complete Parts Catalog online, searchable by category. It is your most up-to-date reference regarding parts availability for AF, since our hard-copy catalog only gets updated about once per year. The website listings can be (and are) updated at will! Likewise our Used AF Equipment Catalog is also online and as up-to-date as we can keep it. Items removed as sold, and added as we uncover them in the piles of equipment around here! Check us out (hope you enjoy some of the music, too!) Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@... VISA --MC--DISCOVER--AMEX--PAYPAL Accepted. NEW ! View our entire AF Parts Catalog On-Line !!!!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15358	From: J_Gasal@Compuserve.com	Date: 11/6/2001
Subject: Re: Smoke units

If I recall, Dept 56 (which makes ceramic buildings sold in craft stores) makes smoke units for their buildings. Haven't used one, but may be worth checking out. --- In S-Trains@y..., "Wayne and Alice Beachy" <abeachy@r...> wrote: > Hi All, > > Does anyone have any suggestions as to where I can find smoke units to place inside a structure for a chimney or house on fire display? Prefer new product not old flyer. Thanks. > > Wayne Beachy > Atlantic Coast S Gaugers > Virginia Central Division > Don't forget our big S gauge show Nov. 17 in Richmond Virginia > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15359	From: Rick Evans	Date: 11/7/2001
Subject: Re: Smoke units @ Dept 56...

J_Gasal... wrote: **((If I recall, Dept 56 (which makes ceramic buildings sold in craft stores) makes smoke units for their buildings. Haven't used one, but may be worth checking out.))** I checked the Dept 56 web site and came up with nothing! I found one building with "magic smoke element",...but that was it. Not saying they don't have 'em,...just that I couldn't find 'em!! Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15360	From: roberte613@aol.com	Date: 11/7/2001
Subject: Aren't train people ever cold?

Casting practicality aside, my son and I decided to scrap our usual Christmas layout and do something new. We decided it was finally time to cast things in the right season and provide a winter landscape for our trains, town, and accessories. But where are the people in coats, scarves blowing against the wind, boots wet with melted snow, and kids bundled up to nothing but eyes. It seems all the figures I can find that even come close to correct size are basking in the tropics, or at least enjoying an Indian summer. Any one know of a source for "winterized" inhabitants? Thanks as always, Robert

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15361	From: Harry Butler	Date: 11/7/2001
Subject: Re: Aren't train people ever cold?

roberte613@... asks about figures in winter gear. Robert, I found a source for a few, though not foreground material, at a local dollar store (maybe Dollar Tree) a few years ago. In their version of "Christmas village" products was a blister pack including a few proper sized (but definitely not finely detailed) figures. And I think I saw some in a box of drugstore Christmas village buildings last year, too. You might check out similar sources. Harry Butler --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Find a job, post your resume on Yahoo! Careers. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15362	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 11/7/2001
Subject: Doug's Top 40

Doug Peck, Port Lines Hobby Supplies, wrote: "...our new revamped and improved website now includes our complete Parts Catalog online...Check us out (hope you enjoy some of the music, too!)" >>> Well, Doug, I did visit your site last week. It's great, but I have a word of warning to others--make sure that you're not at work when you open Doug's pages, or else turn off the sound card on your computer. The music, the railsounds, are really cool and add to the excitement of our hobby, but they can be embarrassing if they suddenly blare out of your computer when a co-worker or your boss just happens to walk past your desk. Gee--I wonder what Eichmann's doing on company time? (Actually, it was during my lunch hour, so there.) John "Still Employed" Eichmann RMHR Boise

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15363	From: Rick Evans	Date: 11/7/2001
Subject: Re: Aren't train people ever cold?

Robert... wrote: **(((Casting practicality aside, my son and I decided to scrap our usual Christmas layout and do something new. We decided it was finally time to cast things in the right season and provide a winter landscape for our trains, town, and accessories. But where are the people in coats, scarves blowing against the wind, boots wet with melted snow, and kids bundled up to nothing but eyes.))*** Hmmmm.....Must be Christmas is California!!!! Rick. ;-)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15364	From: araujonyc@yahoo.com	Date: 11/7/2001
Subject: My life after Sept. 11

I'm 31-years-old, married and father of one beautiful girl. On Sept. 11 I was in Manhattan when the first tower collapsed. Nothing happened to me, but the terrorists took my job away. My employer lost about 80% its customers when the World Trade Center collapsed. Now I got bills to pay and I'm unable even to pay my rent. I'm looking desperately for another job since the terrorist attacks. I know I just can't give up but even my 10-years-old daughter is worried about our future. I need help, anything gonna help us a lot. My Bank: Queens County Savings Bank Account number: 36-633216-7 God bless you! United we stand!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15365	From: Tom Stolte	Date: 11/7/2001
Subject: Fw: [Union_Pacific] How to stop him, was (My life after Sept. 11)

Sorry for the off topic post, folks, we have a scammer on our hands. Tom Stolte To: "Union Pacific List" <Union_Pacific@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2001 6:09 PM Subject: [Union_Pacific] How to stop him, was (My life after Sept. 11) > If you are the owner of a list just ban the e-mail address before he finds > you; and if he has found you ban him and delete his messages from your > archives. I'm removing all the messages from this list now, and have banned > him from all my other list. If you see this kind of thing on one of your > list, just follow these steps and you can cut them off before they become > too big a problem. Also let other list owners know what's coming if you > can. > > Address to ban; araujonyc@... > > Hope this helps slow this guy down. I have sent notices to the Espee list, > n_scale list, and NScale1949-1970 list owners. > > I'm 31-years-old, married and father of one beautiful girl. On Sept. > 11 I was in Manhattan when the first tower collapsed. Nothing > happened to me, but the terrorists took my job away. My employer > lost about 80% its customers when the World Trade Center collapsed. > Now I got bills to pay and I'm unable even to pay my rent. I'm looking > desperately for another job since the terrorist attacks. I know I > just can't give up but even my 10-years-old daughter is worried about > our future. > > I need help, anything gonna help us a lot. > > My Bank: >I need help, anything gonna help us a lot. >My Bank: >Queens County Savings Bank >Account number: >36-633216-7

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15366	From: Tom Stolte	Date: 11/7/2001
Subject: Fw: The Scammer

Below is some info on reporting scammers. So please past this on to your freinds. Again, sorry for the off topic post. Anyone know how to show all the headers in Outlook Express?? Thanks --- --- Tom Stolte > Sure, you can report him to yahoo. The address is abuse@yahoogroups.com > You might also forward his messages to uce@... and > www.usdoj.gov/criminal/fraud/Internet.htm > > That should fix him in short order.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15367	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 11/7/2001
Subject: Re: Insta Smoke with water

It's not water, David. It is a water based fog fluid. The distinction is to separate it from earlier oil based fog fluids which left a mess (but no rust) behind. The fog is extremely fine and dry and evaporates without wetting everything down. It is used in the movie and TV industry to create moods, like a smoky barroom. Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15368	From: milayman@aol.com	Date: 11/7/2001
Subject: Disappearing train

In November 2001 issue of CTT on page 91, there is an article relating to a disappearing train layout. Has anyone built one using S gauge? I know S doesn't have Nagne-Traction. There are rubber tires. Some of my elevations are 4 per cent. I am thinking this might make for great S promotion at RMDTCA shows. Keep it simple as illustrated. The under compartment (hidden) could be modified to reduce elevation problem. Could be assembled for viewer to run. Might draw a crowd. Any S gauge RMD members want to discuss or/and maybe even participate? Marvin

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15369	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 11/7/2001
Subject: Wintery figures

In a message dated 11/07/2001 12:51:32 PM Mountain Standard Time, S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes: > Any one know of a source for "winterized" inhabitants? > > Thanks as always, > > Robert > > > I have a full set of people in winterized wear. Postman, kids, carolers, dogs, Santa, adults, etc., in very, very close to 1/64 scale at a crafts shop a few yrs ago near Christmas time. It went by the name of Jo Anne Fabrics. I don't know if they are a chain or not. I can look again this yr. for anyone interested. They are very cute people and add a lot to the wintery, Christmas scenes. Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15370	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 11/7/2001
Subject: Need e-mail address

Does anyone out there know the email address of Paul Schwartz? He lives in Carmel Indiana and is a Pastor of a church there. I have a copy of Video volume 1 for him but can't contact him. Thanks....Steve

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15371	From: Horn, David	Date: 11/7/2001
Subject: Re: Insta Smoke with water

Interesting. Then why on their web site do they say to simply add regular tap water too make it run?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15372	From: Dan Brindell	Date: 11/7/2001
Subject: Re: Disappearing train

I saw the same article and I thought it was a neat idea. It would display well at train shows....I think kids would be wondering where the train went. And I agree with you that Pulmor tires are every bit as good as Magne-traction and probably better. For those who didn't see the article, it is just a simple loop of track with a small tunnel. The engine disappears into the tunnel and you expect it to come out right away, but it doesn't. The engine doesn't come out until the caboose is just entering. So where did the train go? There is a spiral loop underneath the tunnel. It is a neat gimmick but it requires some real hill-climbing ability to make it work. Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: <milayman@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2001 8:09 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Disappearing train > In November 2001 issue of CTT on page 91, there is an article relating to a > disappearing train layout. Has anyone built one using S gauge? I know S > doesn't have Nagne-Traction. There are rubber tires. Some of my elevations > are 4 per cent. I am thinking this might make for great S promotion at > RMDTCA shows. Keep it simple as illustrated. The under compartment (hidden) > could be modified to reduce elevation problem. Could be assembled for viewer > to run. Might draw a crowd. Any S gauge RMD members want to discuss or/and > maybe even participate? Marvin > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15373	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 11/8/2001
Subject: Re: Insta Smoke with water

David: Mebbe I stuck my nose into a discussion where I had missed some important information. Whose web site? I thought this was a continuation of an earlier thread about alternative smoke machines. Apparently, it got specific about one company's product. I have never seen a water only smoke machine. Chris Zizzo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Horn, David" <David_Horn@...> To: <Busyboy@...> Cc: <s-trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2001 9:08 PM Subject: Re: Insta Smoke with water > Interesting. Then why on their web site do they say to simply add regular > tap water too make it run? >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15374	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 11/8/2001
Subject: New Orleans

The topic of this post is New Orleans. I'm going there next week as my wife's tag along. She's attending a convention. I will have many free hours. Anybody from the list live in the area? How about interesting train stuff around there? Who knows anything? Who wants company? Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15375	From: Horn, David	Date: 11/8/2001
Subject: Re: Insta Smoke with water

More on Model Steam Inc. Simple refill using tap water The fine spray of liquid, which in this application is plain tap water, is generated by feeding the water to a vibrating plate that has a large number of tiny holes in it. The water is siphoned through the holes to form a fine spray. A printed circuit board, PCB, provides the ultra-sonic oscillations that cause the plate to vibrate. A small tank is attached above the vibrating plate to provide a constant water flow - one fluid ounce will last for several minutes - and it can be quickly refilled using a supplied pipette. The spray is generated the instant power is applied by the PCB. Power can be derived from power packs (to 18VAC or 14VDC) or an AC/DC converter (12VDC output). A separate battery operated system (4AA) is also available.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15376	From: Horn, David	Date: 11/8/2001
Subject: Re: Insta Smoke with water

http://www.modelsteam.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15377	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/8/2001
Subject: Re: New Orleans

Chris, Never been there, but there's always the Society for the Preservation of American Jazz! (Think that's the name, my RIM memory unit is functioning normally (Randomly Inaccessible Memory).) Maybe the Delta Queen riverboat is in town for a stop?? :-) S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15378	From: Tim Brown	Date: 11/8/2001
Subject: Re: Wintery figures

Hi, I think Jo Anne Fabrics is a chain. We even have at least one here in Cowtown (Harrisburg). -Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: <boss31@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2001 8:16 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Wintery figures > In a message dated 11/07/2001 12:51:32 PM Mountain Standard Time, > S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes: > > > > Any one know of a source for "winterized" inhabitants? > > > > Thanks as always, > > > > Robert > > > > > > > > I have a full set of people in winterized wear. Postman, kids, carolers, > dogs, Santa, adults, etc., in very, very close to 1/64 scale at a crafts shop > a few yrs ago near Christmas time. It went by the name of Jo Anne Fabrics. I > don't know if they are a chain or not. I can look again this yr. for anyone > interested. They are very cute people and add a lot to the wintery, Christmas > scenes. > > Steve > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15379	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 11/8/2001
Subject: Re: New Orleans

Chris.....Have you contacted Crescent City S-Gaugers???....I belive he (They) are on this list....Mike S. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15380	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 11/8/2001
Subject: Disappearing train

I saw that article too. Looked pretty neat. I am in the design stages of a new layout for my den and have incorporated a similar, but longer, disappearing section on two of the three loops of track I will have. Each will loop back over about nine feet. Roger Petrella Franktown, CO

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15381	From: Eugene Steffan	Date: 11/8/2001
Subject: Re: Disappearing train

There was one running with "L" trains in the Silver Hall at York this fall.I don't recall the group that had it on display. Gene milayman@... wrote: > In November 2001 issue of CTT on page 91, there is an article relating to a > disappearing train layout. Has anyone built one using S gauge? I know S > doesn't have Nagne-Traction. There are rubber tires. Some of my elevations > are 4 per cent. I am thinking this might make for great S promotion at > RMDTCA shows. Keep it simple as illustrated. The under compartment (hidden) > could be modified to reduce elevation problem. Could be assembled for viewer > to run. Might draw a crowd. Any S gauge RMD members want to discuss or/and > maybe even participate? Marvin > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15382	From: IronHorse	Date: 11/8/2001
Subject: Fog on my layout

Hi Guy"S" ; I am interested in creating fog on my next layout. I bought a Gemmy Industries fogger from Wal*Mart. Does anyone the content of the liquid, and how much of each chemical makes up the composition of the liquid? My fog will be over a simulated swamp village. "Horn, David" wrote: > http://www.modelsteam.com/ > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15383	From: Robert Wight	Date: 11/8/2001
Subject: 696 Track trip

Any make there own 696 Track trips for the daner bell crossing? Thanks _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15384	From: sonny2158@yahoo.com	Date: 11/8/2001
Subject: Landscaped Train Table for Sale, Garland,TX Area

I have a 4 ft X 8 ft landsacaped train table, with original flyer "S" gauge track and black rubber roadbed, 4 switches, plastic buildings, varying ages (some plasticville, some more recent). It is wired with lights under the buildings and for the switches. It accomodates four trains, with two able to run simultaneously. The table top detaches from the base. I have to move the table and am contemplating selling it if I find a local buyer in the next day or two. Would recommend a pickup truck to haul it. I will upload a picture to the photo section (don't know how to attach one to this message). Makes for a great operating layout. If anyone in the Dallas area is interested email me at "sonnystuart7@...". By the way, the trains on the table in the picture are NOT included. Thanks David

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15385	From: Robert Wight	Date: 11/8/2001
Subject: making your own roof's

I know there are a few of you folks that, like me, like to make your own parts or scenery when and if possible. I discovered that the grocer gets shipping crates in with Kiwi fruit. The wood is very thin. Happens to come out as thin as the roof's on the accessories. I soak it in hot water and bend to shape. You can cut it with scissors. I then use a green dye paint that is used in ceramics. The texture of the roof along with the color comes out just like the crackle look. I then make a chimney out of to size dowel. The roofs came out wonderful at no cost to me. Just thought some might get some use from this. Bob Wight _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15386	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 11/8/2001
Subject: Re: making your own roof's

Bob, I too use Fruit or veg boxes for the thin lumber that can be gained....You can also use the wood grain running Vert. and with a ruler and sharp point make "boards" with it. Looks good after stain or Paint.....Mike S. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15387	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 11/8/2001
Subject: Re: Disappearing train

Bob, Do you have the Nov. 2001 issue of Classic Toy Trains? The article was on page 91 that showed how Lionel did it on one of their displays. If you don't have it, here is basically what happens. The train enters a tunnel opening in a mountain with the other opening a short distance away on the layout. You would expect to see the train emerge in just a few seconds, but it doesn't. It may take a minute or so. What happens is the train goes into a spiral (double spiral really) down and back up under the layout before coming out the exit opening. I've actually done this similar thing before. The ones I am currently designing in do two different things. One will enter and do a little longer loop under the layout, instead of the steeper spiral, before coming out about three feet from the first opening. The second will make a very long sweep under the layout only two emerge on a track paralleling the first going into the same portal. It makes people wonder how the train turned around inside the mountain. You could do this with a single reverse loop and a switch inside the tunnel and have the train come out on the same track, but I don't want to mess with the reverse loop and the higher probability of derailment inside the tunnel. It's bad enough going under the layout as it is, you have to have fairly easy access in case of a derailment and make it so the train doesn't fall to the floor under the layout. Lots of work, but the end results are fun. Roger Robert Wight wrote: > Roger; Im in the process of doing a new layout. Looking for plans and ideas. > This disappearing loop sounds very interesting. Can you direct me on were to > get more info on how to do this. thanks. > Bob Wight > > >From: "Roger V. Petrella Jr." <rogerpjr@...> > >To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com > >Subject: [S-Trains] Disappearing train > >Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 09:44:22 -0700 > > > >I saw that article too. Looked pretty neat. I am in the design stages > >of a new layout for my den and have incorporated a similar, but longer, > >disappearing section on two of the three loops of track I will have. > >Each will loop back over about nine feet. > > > >Roger Petrella > >Franktown, CO > > > > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > >s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15388	From: NotColdEnough@hotmail.com	Date: 11/8/2001
Subject: model RR addiction

Check this web page out. My wife got worried after she read it and noted similarites with my habits. http://www.theonion.com/onion3740/model-train_hobby.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15389	From: Charlie&Edith	Date: 11/8/2001
Subject: Control Buttons

Greetings to all. Need some help with approximate dating of control buttons, and the 711(?) track trips for operating cars with outside pick-up. On the control buttons - the brown control box with red/yellow decal versus the brown control box with white printing. The track trip with the wire clip versus the trip with the post and knurl nut. Thanks for any help you can provide! Best Wishes, Charlie

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15390	From: joeawood@aol.com	Date: 11/9/2001
Subject: New Orleans

Chris I've never been there either But with my work I travel to different cities. First I check a copy of CTT in the back, the hobby shop & train shop listings. Then the first thing I do when I get into the hotel is check the yellow pages for hobby shops. I have also found never cross any shops off the list because they don't list AF or S guage Many shops I have been in seem to always have a few pieces around. Have fun, Joe Anderson [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15391	From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com	Date: 11/9/2001
Subject: Found: Gilbert Newsstand for sale

Good Morning! I was trundling through a local antique mall and came upon a "Gilbert Newsstand". Looked reasonably good. Some paint loss from the front of the roof, some of the magazines were missing, but all in all, original. Would anyone on the list be interested in it? It is priced at $225.00. Too much for me. Any comments as to the accuracy of their pricing? I haven't acquired any of the Minicraft/Gilbert buildings and I don't know what "good pricing" would be. I just have the price guides to base my opinions on. Enjoy the day!! Bill Trefts ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15392	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 11/9/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1200

CONTROL BUTTONS The control buttons with decals were prewar. Not to say that some overstock was not included in sets put together during and after the war. The #711 is a mail pickup S gage 1946-47, The clip type is the second run probably 1948-54. A similar pickup was available with 3 rail O gage flyer 1941. Jerry 77-11644 ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15393	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 11/9/2001
Subject: Re: New Orleans

Thanks to everybody who replied to my request for contacts in New Orleans. I'll be there from the 14th. to the 20th. of this month. I will try to get back to everyone personally. Here's an interestin item I found on a New Orleans tourist website. #101 on a list of 101 things to do in New Orleans: Louisiana Toy Train Museum You just don't know 'til you look! Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15394	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 11/10/2001
Subject: 751 Log Loader

Hi Folks, Anybody gave a diagram and/or instructions on restringing a 751 Log Loader? I would like to add it to my on-line help page. See Ya at Sunday Chat http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/strains ===== Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com Photography - Computers - Trains __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Find a job, post your resume. http://careers.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15395	From: NotColdEnough@hotmail.com	Date: 11/10/2001
Subject: Sticking brushes

Hi, A couple of times my 283 steamer has stalled. Problem each time has been a brush that is sticking in the brush holder. This then causes a small air gap between the brush and the commutator. It has a matched pair of replacement springs and brushes. Could the brush springs be too weak? Any other ideas? John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15396	From: gino restivo	Date: 11/10/2001
Subject: Re: Sticking brushes

hi john , use a small calibre bore brush or even a Q - tip and clean out the tube ... make sure the brush does not have any grease or build up on it , also ck to see any deep scratch's are in the tube's one of these should fix you up have fun , gino -----Original Message----- From: NotColdEnough@... <NotColdEnough@...> To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Date: Saturday, November 10, 2001 1:53 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Sticking brushes >Hi, > >A couple of times my 283 steamer has stalled. Problem each time has >been a brush that is sticking in the brush holder. This then causes >a small air gap between the brush and the commutator. > >It has a matched pair of replacement springs and brushes. > >Could the brush springs be too weak? Any other ideas? > >John > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > ---------------------------------------------------- Sign Up for NetZero Platinum Today Only $9.95 per month! http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15397	From: Gary Chidester	Date: 11/10/2001
Subject: Test?

I just thought I'd test my e-mail, sorry for any inconvenience. I haven't had a posting form the list for two days....very unusual! ;-)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15398	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 11/11/2001
Subject: sticking brushes

Dirt in the tubes is the most likely cause. (The brushes and springs should be in perfect condition.) Other possibilities: One tube may be loose in the brush mount. It can be glued with a small amount of Zap or something similar. don't let any glue get into the inside surfaces of the tube. The brush mount may be cracked (broken). The crack may not be visible due to dirt. The commutator may be warped. It should be perfectly flat except for the 3 slots. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15399	From: ALLAN V EISENHAUR	Date: 11/11/2001
Subject: Digest 1201

Hi All Looks like yahoo acting up again. I didn't receive the Digest 1201 posting. If anyone still has it that's if you got it. Would you please send it to me. Thanks AL ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15400	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 11/11/2001
Subject: Re: sticking brushes

John, who is NotColdEnough because he uses hotmail, sez: >A couple of times my 283 steamer has stalled. Problem each time has >been a brush that is sticking in the brush holder. This then causes >a small air gap between the brush and the commutator. >It has a matched pair of replacement springs and brushes. John: I hear the answer to your question in your second paragraph. All the good suggestions made by Tom and Gino notwithstanding, I would examine those brushes carefully. Repros may not be made to the same exact specifications as originals. If they are even a fraction of a thousandth of an inch too big, they could hang up in the brush tubes. Worse, if they are a fraction too small, they could cock to one side from the rotational torque. They'll run fine until the brush wears down and then there will be a gap as it cannot feed out any more carbon. With the whole brush tube section removed from the motor body, examine the carbons and the tubes under a magnifier and a strong light. The brushes should slide through with the smooth precision of a hydraulic piston. It should not be possible to move the brushes laterally in the tubes. Further, there should be no binding as the carbon travels in one end and out the other. Check the springs to make sure the ends are well formed with no scraggly pieces of metal binding on the tube walls. Finally, check to see that the springs have enough force to keep the brushes extended out of the tubes as you keep them just barely retained with your finger. If it still is a problem, check to see if the thrust washers at the front end of the motor shaft are still in place. It is possible that there is excessive forward/backward commutator movement, though good brushes should be able to track this with ease. The final answer may be new brushes and springs from Doug Peck. Keep us posted. Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15401	From: Mr V Kosobiecki	Date: 11/11/2001
Subject: Udanavarga 5:18) Confucianism: "Is there

Analects 15:23) Hinduism: "This is the sum of duty: Do naught unto others which would cause you pain if done to you." (Mahabharata 5:1517) Islam: "No one of you is a believer until he desires for his brother that which he desires for himself." (Sunan) Judaism: "What is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow man. That is the entire Law: all the rest is commentary. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15402	From: Mr V Kosobiecki	Date: 11/11/2001
Subject: When the new language.

Setup will automatically install the language that corresponds to your current language settings (or English if that language is unavailable). Have Fun! Dive into this diverse collection of addictive puzzle games. Enjoy Microsoft Entertainment Pack: The Puzzle Collection. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15403	From: Jay	Date: 11/11/2001
Subject: Bumpers?

Hi all, I have a question about consists which will be on shelves v. track. Other than buying AF bumpers; how do you keep the trains from rolling? I was thinking of brass horseshoe nails that would fit over the couplers; this would allow some movement and one car could be rolled under the nail and the next would slip over the locked coupler. Any other thoughts as the nail would not be adjustable? Does anyone else make a bumper which mounts to the track? Thanks Jay -- Jay _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15404	From: Don Thompson	Date: 11/11/2001
Subject: Re: Bumpers?

Dear Jay, Frank Titman's Lehigh Valley Models as S scale wheel stops that can be painted yellow and applied (goo works great) to the railhead will prevent your trains from moving on the track. Don Jay wrote: > Hi all, > I have a question about consists which will be on shelves v. track. > Other than buying AF bumpers; how do you keep the trains from > rolling? I was thinking of brass horseshoe nails that would fit over > the couplers; this would allow some movement and one car could be > rolled under the nail and the next would slip over the locked > coupler. Any other thoughts as the nail would not be adjustable? Does > anyone else make a bumper which mounts to the track? > Thanks > Jay > -- > Jay -- -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15405	From: David	Date: 11/11/2001
Subject: Auction Of The Week......

I'm late this week. Got busy and did not get a chance to search the sites. This week we have a doozie. If these are "Mint" then this $1 bill I have here is really a $50... E-Bay Auction # 1662111205 Enjoy!!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15406	From: Jim Hannawald	Date: 11/11/2001
Subject: Rivets

I have used this list in the past for information on American Flyer and really appreciate the quick answers that have been very helpful. I now need your help again. Does anyone know which rivet is used on the #24219 Western Maryland hopper to attach the trucks. Thanks, Jim Hannawald [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15407	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 11/11/2001
Subject: Item of the week

You miss read it it was near mint....Is there a mint in Atlanta???... mike S. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15408	From: Horn, David	Date: 11/11/2001
Subject: sticking brushes

Most likely it is grimy build up in the tubes and/or on the brushes/springs. Clean them as others have said to. If that's not the problem, check to see that your brushes are the minimum recommended length. I don't off the top of my head remember exactly what that is, but I think it's 3/16" including the shoulder. I also think new AF brushes are about 5/16" including the shoulder. Lionel brushes are a little shorter (~1/4"), but also work. Heat fatigues metal. Springs are made of metal. Eventually physical and heat fatigue can take the bounce out of a spring even if it looks to be the right length. You might want to try new springs. They too might liven the step of your Pacific. I've recently conducted some spring and brush combination experiments on a large motor 313 that I want to replicate on a similarly performing large motor 326 before documenting the results. However, spring tension, brush size, brush material, and the quality of the interface between brush and commutator contribute a lot to overall engine performance. Even to the point now where I can introduce and take away the "syndrome" (i.e. faster in reverse than in forward). What a hobby. PS Some Baldwin powered-truck pick up foot springs clearly show heat fatigue. The original Baldwin p.u. foot springs were made of a very fine soft wire and therefore had a low k-factor. Sometimes you'll find they've obviously lost their bounce. Baldwins run hot, so it figures.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15409	From: ron inscho	Date: 11/11/2001
Subject: eBay item 1030468003 (Ends Nov-15-01 145901 PST ) - NORFOLK SOUTHER

buy this & you can be just like the N&S big boys http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1030468003 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15410	From: lancemccold@chartertn.net	Date: 11/11/2001
Subject: Grading trains

I recently bought an item that was advertized as VG+. It has quite a bit of rust and lots more wear than I would have expected (paint scuffed off in quite a few places). According to the TM books guide, the TCA and TTOS grading standards say "very good" means "few scratches, exceptionally clean; no dents." "Fair" is supposed to mean "well-scratched, chipped dented, susted or warped." with these guidelines, I would have called this item fair or maybe fair+, but I could not have gotten to very good. On the other hand, I have no experience using these grading standards, so I am not sure whether or not my idea of well scratched is actually what most people would think of as few scratches. It would be very helpful if this group or some other site posted photos of examples of what each of these grade levels mean by concensus of the members. If someone submitted good photos of six sides of an item and let the members of this group vote on what grade each would give it, it would tell us all how consistently we see it. If the results of the voting were posted with the pictures of the item, we could use them for reference in grading other items. To be most effective, there should be a couple items of each grade level to refer to. Any thoughts? Lance

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15411	From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com	Date: 11/11/2001
Subject: (no subject)

Other than buying AF bumpers; how do you keep the trains from rolling? heck, i bet super glue on the wheels would work! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15412	From: gino restivo	Date: 11/11/2001
Subject: Re: Grading trains

you should return it if it was listed as v.g. and rec. a refund including s& h fee's grading is use to determine the value , it is used by every one maybe the person who sold is blind or just wants big bucks ......... had a similar problem with a fellow tca member ..... it was advtzed as E+ what i got was broken and had been partialy repainted I GOT A COMPLETE REFUND AFTER 3 PHONE CALLS maybe i should have waited until 6:am , sorry 3 hr time diff get your money back , gino -----Original Message----- From: lancemccold@... <lancemccold@...> To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Date: Sunday, November 11, 2001 8:39 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Grading trains >I recently bought an item that was advertized as VG+. It has quite a >bit of rust and lots more wear than I would have expected (paint >scuffed off in quite a few places). > >According to the TM books guide, the TCA and TTOS grading standards >say "very good" means "few scratches, exceptionally clean; no >dents." "Fair" is supposed to mean "well-scratched, chipped dented, >susted or warped." with these guidelines, I would have called this >item fair or maybe fair+, but I could not have gotten to very good. > >On the other hand, I have no experience using these grading >standards, so I am not sure whether or not my idea of well scratched >is actually what most people would think of as few scratches. > >It would be very helpful if this group or some other site posted >photos of examples of what each of these grade levels mean by >concensus of the members. If someone submitted good photos of six >sides of an item and let the members of this group vote on what grade >each would give it, it would tell us all how consistently we see it. >If the results of the voting were posted with the pictures of the >item, we could use them for reference in grading other items. To be >most effective, there should be a couple items of each grade level to >refer to. > >Any thoughts? > >Lance > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > ---------------------------------------------------- Sign Up for NetZero Platinum Today Only $9.95 per month! http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15413	From: David	Date: 11/11/2001
Subject: Re: eBay item 1030468003 (Ends Nov-15-01 145901 PST ) - NORFOLK SOU

Wow, and I thought my not so near mint, near mint junk pile auction was a doozie... :o)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15414	From: David	Date: 11/11/2001
Subject: Re: Grading trains

Well Lance thats not a bad idea at all, but I have been trying to put together a pictorial archive of everything AF made in S & HO. So far I am about 2/3 done, and have 1,389 picture files. To get 4 or 6 pictures of each item in each of the 5 conditions commonly used would be a lot of pictures, and I would think, not very practical. If you bought that item on an auction or thru a mail order house, I would certainly make a complaint and ask for a refund upon return based on the item being incorrectly graded. Grading has always been a problem, and it affects a lot of hobby's, not just trains. Coin collecting is one that comes to mind. It depends on the seller, and the venue. I know of a big show for trains where everything is Like New or some other high grade, and priced accordingly irregardless of true condition... :o). Your best bet is to know what your looking at and how to grade accurately. Always get a return guarantee to cover yourself. In as many cases as possible, see and touch the item or at least get good clear photos of the item(s), so you can make an educated decision.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15415	From: David	Date: 11/11/2001
Subject: Re: Bumpers?

An easy and inexpensive way, harmless too, to keep rolling stock in its placce on a shelf if it wants to tend to roam is to take a bread bag tie, and slip it under both axels of the truck and twist it tight. This keeps the axels on that truck from spinning by supplying the right amount of friction to keep them from turning. You cannot see the tie after its installed, its easily removed, and causes no harm to the car at all.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15416	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/11/2001
Subject: Re: Auction Of The Week......

Dave, The auction doesn't say "mint" it says; "near mint"! Well, that $1 is near a $50, isn't it?? Ya need change for a $20? Well, I've got a crisp, clean $10 I'll give ya!! ;-) At least the pics are clear enough you can see (mostly) how un-mint the cars are! I can't believe they're bid up to $42 now, maybe I'd better clean out some of my project boxes. . . . (Nah, never happen, I like projects too much!) S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15417	From: Don Thompson	Date: 11/12/2001
Subject: Re: Bumpers?

Dear David, We have the same problem at trade shows when we display our models in the 6' glass cases. At first I had cut some foam rubber ins squares (about 1/2" X 1") and forced them between the axle and floor to prevent them from rolling. I forgot them at a show and Robin started to use the styrofoam packing chips the same way and they worked just fine. The real fun began when we started to have a layout at he shows and would take items out of the display case and run and realize that they run a lot better without the brakes set from the foam chips. Don T. David wrote: > An easy and inexpensive way, harmless too, to keep rolling stock in > its placce on a shelf if it wants to tend to roam is to take a bread > bag tie, and slip it under both axels of the truck and twist it > tight. This keeps the axels on that truck from spinning by supplying > the right amount of friction to keep them from turning. You cannot > see the tie after its installed, its easily removed, and causes no > harm to the car at all. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15418	From: Al Galli	Date: 11/12/2001
Subject: Train Auction

The Train Gallery Auctions is having an auction sale 11/30 in Phillipsburg NJ. There are many American Flyer lots including a 336, 21573 and a 977. If you would like a catalog emailed send me your email address Al Galli

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15419	From: Rick Evans	Date: 11/12/2001
Subject: Re: Auction Of The Week......

Well,...the #922 boxcar and the #947 reefer top out at $41-$46 in exc. condition (according to Greenberg's '98 edition)....I would imagine the high bidder is looking to nab these from that "mint", sorry, "near" mint lot!!! Awwww,.....who knows?!? Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15420	From: Bob	Date: 11/12/2001
Subject: Brass Button.........?

Dear Group, I know this question was asked before ,but I cannot remember the answer.What are the two (?) brass buttons on the bottom of the very early A.F. steamers used for? I seen a #310 penn. that has them.Were they used for accessories,switches ?? Please post any and all answers. Thanks n advance.........Bob

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15421	From: David	Date: 11/12/2001
Subject: Re: Brass Button.........?

The brass buttons were originally intended to be used with the 695 track trip to activate accessories. For unknown reasons, the plan was abandoned, and the brass buttons dissapeared into toy train history the next year.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15422	From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT	Date: 11/12/2001
Subject: Re: Brass Button.........?

THEY WERE A HOLD OVER FROM THE OLD THREE RAIL DAYS...BOB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob" <YAZFACTS@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 7:18 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Brass Button.........? > Dear Group, > I know this question was asked before ,but I cannot > remember the answer.What are the two (?) brass buttons on the bottom > of the very early A.F. steamers used for? I seen a #310 penn. that has > them.Were they used for accessories,switches ?? Please post any and > all answers. > Thanks n advance.........Bob > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15423	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 11/12/2001
Subject: TENDER

Hi Guys I am still looking for 3 org PA horns and a 342/343 tender with the rev in it ...Cond is good or better a repaint fine Thank you ....Mike S. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15424	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/12/2001
Subject: Re: Brass Button.........?

David (the other David! ) has it right; used to activate the signals with a special trip that was basically two brass strips that the buttons contacted, providing a closed circuit. Two problems arose: The brass buttons made contact with the switch points, and they would also occasionally short out the signals. This is because the chassis, which is intended to be electrically neutral (no connections to it) often isn't because of bad insulation, shifted wheel rims, wiring errors, etc. The locomotive will often still run, in fact the late chassis are designed to be "live." It would have been a great idea, anything that you only wanted the loco to activate would, it was replaced with the spring-loaded track trip 967(?) S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15425	From: kempfam@aol.com	Date: 11/12/2001
Subject: Alco Motor

I have a single motor diesel, three position reverse and pull-mor. The engine does not run. Visually everything is fine. The armature looks good, the commutator and slots are clean. The field looks good as does the reverse unit. The fingers are not worn and they contact the drum. The reverse sequences properly and the headlight is on when power is applied. The motor does not budge, not even a hint of movement. I have checked continuity and all wires and connections test ok. I replaced the armature for the heck of it with no change. While checking continuity, I placed the tester on both field connections and believe I heard a very faint buzz presumably from the 1.5 volt battery. Saw a tiny spark too. Any suggestions? The engine ran sluggishly when put in storage some years ago. I believe it was slow due to a sticky armature bushing, not an electrical problem. Ron Kemp

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15426	From: beanie_bari@yahoo.com	Date: 11/12/2001
Subject: American Flyer running on AC?

I pulled out an old American Flyer set, and prepared to use my multimeter to test the transformers. I'm not sure if mine's really an 'S', it's one of the ones that has three rails. (Sorry, I mainly work with HO, so I'm new with this stuff). Flipped the meter to 15VDC, tested--blew the fuse in my meter. Darn. Got a new fuse, and noted that it says "Output xx Cycles" on the transformer. Wait a sec- -DC doesn't have cycles! Flipped the meter to 15VAC, and it works fine. Is this set really AC? And is there any way to make it accept DC? Thanks! --Beanie

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15427	From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com	Date: 11/12/2001
Subject: 785 Coal Loader Wiring

Greetings! I dug out my 785 coal loader to see what it needed to get it running. (A pretty sad 785 I paid too much for.) With some oil, I got it working!! But the wire to the clamshell is missing. I think one lead would go to the control button, but where would the other connect in the tower. This would be the "base" wire as the hot would come from the button. I also read that by pushing the button part way down closes and holds the clamshell, the the rest of the way down draws the bucket into the tower. I guess I should open up the control box again to see if I over-adjusted the contacts. Thanks for your input! Bill Trefts ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15428	From: David Garber	Date: 11/12/2001
Subject: Track Trips

ok it was the 695 in 1946 .The 697 in 1950. What was used in 47- 49??? The 591 4 wire crossing gate had its own relay.But what other accessories would need this type of relay? will have to check some old cat. to see what was for sale.Time to start a new thread. I do not remember this one B4. Dave G.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15429	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 11/12/2001
Subject: Alco Motor

A very interesting problem. Is the loco wired correctly? The armature can be freely spun by hand, right? Or are the gears and axles jammed with old grease? There does not appear to be a short circuit, since the light and reverse unit work. It appears that electricity is not flowing through the motor because of a break in the motor circuit. This loco contains three parallel circuits: the lamp circuit, the reverse unit coil circuit, and the motor. In order to check continuity in the motor circuit, it must be separated from the other two. Otherwise you can get a false continuity reading that actually travelled through one of the other circuits. The lamp circuit can be broken by removing the bulb; one wire from a truck to the reverse unit coil can be cut. If a speaker is present, its circuit must be interrupted too, in the most convenient way. (Double motor diesels are even trickier in this regard). Check the continuity of the motor as a whole. If there is continuity, then the problem is between the motor or reverse unit fingers, and the truck pickups. If there is no continuity, the break in the motor circuit must be located. The field should be checked for continuity between terminals. The armature should be tested for continuity between (among) all three plates. There should be no continuity between any plate and the armature shaft. Each wire, especially those in the harness, should be checked for continuity. The reverse unit fingers should also be tested for continuity. This is easiest in the reverse position, where the copper on the reverse unit drum connects the top right finger to the top left one, and the bottom right finger to the bottom left one. In this position there should be continuity between the solder terminals of the two top fingers and between the two bottom ones. Soldered connections that look OK may actually be NG due to corrosion within the joint. So check each soldered joint for continuity. There are three pairs of especially trouble-prone soldered joints in a Flyer diesel motor. These are the field terminals, which are fragile and easily damaged, the connections between the wire harness and the brush arms, which are also easily damaged, and the brushes. The graphite brushes are soldered to brass brush holders, and these soldered connections are vulnerable to damage from vibration, heat, dirt, and corrosion. Make sure that the brushes are securely mounted,and test for continuity between the brass arm and the FACE of each brush. I have found several instances in which there was none, though the brush was securely in place. Just because electrical contact surfaces look clean, does not mean they are. A thin layer of some transparent or nearly transparent material may have formed over something like a commutator or reverse unit drum. I once restored (most of) a collection that had been in a house fire. Every commutator, every reverse unit drum, every pickup wheel and shoe, had been coated with a very tough layer of light brown soot that was nearly invisible and a very effective insulator. It had to be removed with abrasives. It is unlikely, but some substance of this sort may be present on the reverse unit drum, the commutator, or the brush faces. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15430	From: David	Date: 11/13/2001
Subject: Re: 785 Coal Loader Wiring

Bill, hook the other lead to where the black wire is connected that comes in from the power source. That connection should be at the motor and have other leads connected. All you need is that ground there, and the hot from the button does the rest. David

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15431	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 11/13/2001
Subject: "S"tructures

I've been talking to some folks who are interested in making plastic structure kits for S. One of them has a need for someone to help out with some CAD design for a specific kit. If anyone is interested, or knows of someone else who might be interested, please contact me. Thanks, Roy

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15432	From: Hannon	Date: 11/13/2001
Subject: Alco Motor ... more ideas

Ron: If everything checks out ok, and the motor doesn't budge when power is applied, the you might want to check the following: 1. Check that both brushes are actually making contact on the commutator drum. The harness was so short that it tends to pull the brushes away from the commutator with the slightest nudge (even going around a curve). Just power it up and using thumb and fore- finger, press both brushes inward. 2. Check that the brush tips themselves have not developed a hard, insulating glaze due to years of running in light contact with the drum commutator and dirt/oil accumulation. Sand or scrape them down till you see dull, relatively soft carbon; not shiny black carbon with the touch and feel of pumice. Better yet, call Doug Peck of Port Lines Hobbies and get a pair of fresh, full-sized replacements. Bob Hannon

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15433	From: Horn, David	Date: 11/13/2001
Subject: balky Alco

Tom J as usual covered it, especially the point about can you easily spin the armature by hand. 3-4 alligator-clip ended lead wires might also come in handy. Isolate the field and brush leads, then hard wire the motor from a transformer with 3 leads to be sure. The field and armature flow in series with each other as so aptly pointed out about a week ago. Leads can also help find a defective wire (braids broken inside the insulation) or gone-bad solder connection. Connect two points together with an alligator-lead in parallel to the orginal wiring and see if that makes a difference.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15434	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 11/13/2001
Subject: S gauge tinplate track in new radii

Did the rest of you guys get this e-mail? I put in a call to find out more and Marshall Douglas, who sent it, is to get back to me. The concept is certainly intriguing, though S-Helper super flex obviates the necessity for this on permanent layouts. Under the tree and other seasonal set-ups might benefit. I'll post again when I know more. Flyer operators: S gauge tinplate track in new radii options like the scale guys enjoy! 22.0" radius 25.1" radius 28.2" radius 31.3" radius 34.4" radius 37.5" radius 46.7" radius 49.8" radius 59.0" radius 62.1" radius reusing the original rails, pins, ties & insulators ultra-cleaned and rebent to new curvatures call Track Fun toll-free for details 866 233 3840 at prompt 5840 phone inquiry preferable to email Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15435	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 11/13/2001
Subject: AC/DC Blown Meter Blues

Beanie, who has my wife's pet name, asks: >Is this set really AC? And is there any way to make it accept DC? Dear Beanie: Generally, toy trains run on AC, scale on DC. That's changing, but yes, your three rail Flyer (3/16th's O and the Chicago Flyer 1/4" O) most definitely run on AC. S gauge locos made in the postwar period were equipped with universal motors. They will run on AC or DC, though transformers were always AC. I don't know if the stuff Gilbert made in 3 rail also had universal motors. They might have, and if they did, you can run DC. For a short period in 1947-48, two Flyer steamers were made with DC only motors. That experiment ended quickly because of it's incompatibility with existing equipment, at least in the public mind. Newer equipment runs on DC can motors with bridge rectifiers installed to modify the AC power. I installed a bridge in my 332DC and it runs beautifully. Unfortunately, you can't turn that around the other way, at least not in a practical way. Motors intended for AC use only will run on AC, not DC. That's the skinny, so watch your volts, dolts and take care your amps, champs! Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15436	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/13/2001
Subject: Re: Brass Button.........?

They were for tripping an accessory by completing a circuit through the chassis. Heard they caused problems and were short lived. I have a pair of K5s with the feature I bought as a teenager the first Christmas after WII. Can't recall what sccessory they tripped and can't recall why they were undesirable and dropped right away. Anyone recall? They may have had something to do with tripping a turnout before the loco arrived. Bob wrote: > > Dear Group, > I know this question was asked before ,but I cannot > remember the answer.What are the two (?) brass buttons on the bottom > of the very early A.F. steamers used for? I seen a #310 penn. that has > them.Were they used for accessories,switches ?? Please post any and > all answers. > Thanks n advance.........Bob > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15437	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/13/2001
Subject: Re: Alco Motor

Don't forget the only was to really test the motor is to remember it's series wound. One power lead to a brush, one to a field. Place a lead from the other end of the field to the other brush. If you can't get to them at least try to give the motor a prod if it's trying to run. Amazing what old Gunk will do. Some tuner cleaner spray might do wonders but KEEP IT OFF the PAINT. (voice of sad experience) kempfam@... wrote: > > I have a single motor diesel, three position reverse and pull-mor. The > engine does not run. Visually everything is fine. The armature looks good, > the commutator and slots are clean. The field looks good as does the reverse > unit. The fingers are not worn and they contact the drum. The reverse > sequences properly and the headlight is on when power is applied. The motor > does not budge, not even a hint of movement. I have checked continuity and > all wires and connections test ok. I replaced the armature for the heck of > it with no change. While checking continuity, I placed the tester on both > field connections and believe I heard a very faint buzz presumably from the > 1.5 volt battery. Saw a tiny spark too. Any suggestions? The engine ran > sluggishly when put in storage some years ago. I believe it was slow due to > a sticky armature bushing, not an electrical problem. > Ron Kemp > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15438	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/13/2001
Subject: Re: American Flyer running on AC?

Get a radio shack bridge rectifier, at least about 6 amps (buck anda half?), and feed it from the AC transformer. Turn the transformer power knob and you have a DC power supply. Now put the DC output through a double pole double throw switch to reverse DC locos and you're all set. beanie_bari@... wrote: > > I pulled out an old American Flyer set, and prepared to use my > multimeter to test the transformers. I'm not sure if mine's really > an 'S', it's one of the ones that has three rails. (Sorry, I mainly > work with HO, so I'm new with this stuff). Flipped the meter to > 15VDC, tested--blew the fuse in my meter. Darn. Got a new fuse, and > noted that it says "Output xx Cycles" on the transformer. Wait a sec- > -DC doesn't have cycles! Flipped the meter to 15VAC, and it works > fine. Is this set really AC? And is there any way to make it accept > DC? > > Thanks! > > --Beanie > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15439	From: Thomas Stoltz	Date: 11/13/2001
Subject: kadee couplers

Hello, I'm considering using Kadee couplers on my current production rolling stock & engines. I read about someone converting the Am Models Budd cars and in seemed like a lot to go through.--- shim this, tap that, adjust the height---hey, the holes are already there, can't they be used? SHS states that you need to use bolster spacers to make the car the correct height for the Kadees??, spacers are not provided with AM cars, do they need them? Why? How about minimum radius for the track curvature using body mounted couplers? I am using 27" minimum radius, with easements, on AM .148" track and their #4 turnouts. I would like to use the Kadees, body mounted, on AM heavyweights, Budd cars, & the long (80 foot?) streamliners. Where is the best buy for Kadee 802's? Thanks for the help, Tom [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15440	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 11/14/2001
Subject: American Flyer running on AC?

Chuck, I think you need to re-read the question. He doesn't want his transformer to run on DC. He wants the trains to run on DC. If they are universal motors, they will. If they are AC motors, they will not. Period. Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15441	From: jhodges@pen.k12.va.us	Date: 11/14/2001
Subject: Transformer Info Needed

II am currently planning a layout with an old American Flyer train set my dad bought for us when I was young. I have also purchased some new S-helper track and cars so I can run more than one train. My question is what new transformers would best serve me for running multiple trains in a large layout? I have an old AF transformer that I was going to use to power some accessories. Would appreciate any advice anyone might have. Jim Hodges

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15442	From: Hannon	Date: 11/14/2001
Subject: Alco Brushes

Got a few off-list requests for brushes and other parts. I don't carry them, but these guys do. ------------------------------------------------------------- Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,300 part lines American Models ## S-Helper Service ## Gilbert Rerpoductions Featuring Parts by Toy Trains International joestrainrepair@... Master Card/Visa -------------------------------------------------------------- Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15443	From: Horn, David	Date: 11/14/2001
Subject: Mold signature?

My 25057 exploding box car has an unusual marking that I was wondering if any of you have ever seen or heard of. It is identical on both side panels. It looks like an elongated s-shaped curve on the surface extending from the top edge to the bottom edge about 1" the right hand side of the door in each side panel. To the one side of the curve under certain light the plastic is glossy and smooth, on the other side it is more a matte finish. The printing is complete on the car, but the yellow does have a slightly different finish to the left of this line than to the right. I pointed this out to the seller because otherwise this car is a peach (i.e. all tabs, etc.) and he said that that was from the molds at the Gilbert factory ergo the fact they are identical on both side panels. Which is the case. I bought his explanation and the car, but have wondered if any of you have come across anything like this too. Thanks in advance for your help.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15444	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 11/14/2001
Subject: Fwd: AMERICAN MODELS CUSTOM TRAINS BLATANT AD

Hi Guys , This is the guy that made my CORP SET (Central Ore & Pacific) I will have pics of the set he did for me in a week or so....He also has AM at reas. Prices....Mike S. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15445	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 11/14/2001
Subject: Fwd: (no subject) CORP

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15446	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 11/14/2001
Subject: 343's for sale

Hi Guys , Befor listing these on E-bay I'll give you guys a shot at them ....343 w/4pos in the cab E- $400.00........ 343 2/pos in cab E-$325 .00 This includes shipping Ins extra .....They both have been serviced by Steve on this list (Boss31@...) Mike S. Both have playwear and one has repo handrais (Front pilot)...Both smoke very well and run great [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15447	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 11/14/2001
Subject: Re: S gauge tinplate track in new radii

Chris Zizzo wrote: Did the rest of you guys get this e-mail? I put in a call to find out more and Marshall Douglas, who sent it, is to get back to me. The concept is certainly intriguing, though S-Helper super flex obviates the necessity for this on permanent layouts. Under the tree and other seasonal set-ups might benefit. I'll post again when I know more. Flyer operators: S gauge tinplate track in new radii options like the scale guys enjoy! 22.0" radius 25.1" radius 28.2" radius 31.3" radius 34.4" radius 37.5" radius 46.7" radius 49.8" radius 59.0" radius 62.1" radius reusing the original rails, pins, ties insulators ultra-cleaned and rebent to new curvatures call Track Fun toll-free for details 866 233 3840 at prompt 5840 phone inquiry preferable to email ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ He also ran an ad in the Nov/Dec S Gaugian. Says "all radii same length as original curved track." Seems it might create some odd geometries. Rich G. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15448	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 11/14/2001
Subject: Re: kadee couplers

Tom Stoltz wrote: I'm considering using Kadee couplers on my current production rolling stock engines. I read about someone converting the Am Models Budd cars and in seemed like a lot to go through.--- shim this, tap that, adjust the height---hey, the holes are already there, can't they be used? SHS states that you need to use bolster spacers to make the car the correct height for the Kadees??, spacers are not provided with AM cars, do they need them? Why? How about minimum radius for the track curvature using body mounted couplers? I am using 27" minimum radius, with easements, on AM .148" track and their #4 turnouts. I would like to use the Kadees, body mounted, on AM heavyweights, Budd cars, the long (80 foot?) streamliners. Where is the best buy for Kadee 802's? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To allow for closer coupling, the AM Budds coupler mounting pad is set to clear the Flyer compatible coupler they use. AM says they have spacer pads available for body mounting Kadee's, why they're not included with the cars is a question best asked to AM. Even the "scale" cars have truck mounted couplers, and us scalers need to shim down for Kadee body mounts if we so desire. The SHS bolster spacers are included with their cars. The SHS truck mounting is adjusted so the cars do not sit high with the HiRail couplers. Their truck spacer merely takes up the space the HiRail coupler uses. After all, you have to remove the truck to remove the HiRail coupler, so just drop in the truck spacer before remounting the truck. 80' cars WILL make it around 27" radius with body mounted Kadees. Just make sure the couplers are mounted far out enough to ensure the cars don't clip each other on the curve. Don't expect them to handle an S curve though. It may also be necessary to taper the side openings of the Kadee coupler box to to allow for slightly more swing. Rich G. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15449	From: THOMAS C. FISHER	Date: 11/14/2001
Subject: Re: Transformer Info Needed

Jim......Is there a particular reason for wanting to use a "new" transformer to run your Flyer ? ACG made a number of great, twin control, powerful transformers and they can be found at reasonable prices at swaps, on lists and places like eBay. In my opinion, the 12B gives the best bang for the buck, it packs 250 watts of power, more than enough for two trains and a few accessories, it has circuit breakers and one of the best features is the "reverse" button which allows you to cycle the reverse unit in your locomotive without using the "throttle" handle. Smitty ----- Original Message ----- From: <jhodges@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2001 5:52 AM Subject: [S-Trains] Transformer Info Needed > II am currently planning a layout with an old American Flyer train > set my dad bought for us when I was young. I have also > purchased some new S-helper track and cars so I can run more > than one train. My question is what new transformers would > best serve me for running multiple trains in a large layout? I > have an old AF transformer that I was going to use to power > some accessories. Would appreciate any advice anyone might > have. > > Jim Hodges > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15450	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/14/2001
Subject: Re: Transformer Info Needed

I prefer multiple (75-100 watts per train circuit) multiple Flyer transformers. If you're near a store that sells them they won't break your budget. I use an old 12B dual to power 2 loops because I picked it up as a bargain longer ago than I care to remember. I recently bought a used Lionel transformer of 75 or 100 watts for about $10 at a train show. Works great with Flyer. If you want a "nicer" and/or newer solution there are some new MRC transformers available. If you look at a Flyer #30 dual, make sure it's in really good shape. Several people in our club have them and they're the only transformers that ever have given us any problem, plus I don't like the way they still have power on at the lowest power setting unless you lift the dead man throttle lever. jhodges@... wrote: > > II am currently planning a layout with an old American Flyer train > set my dad bought for us when I was young. I have also > purchased some new S-helper track and cars so I can run more > than one train. My question is what new transformers would > best serve me for running multiple trains in a large layout? I > have an old AF transformer that I was going to use to power > some accessories. Would appreciate any advice anyone might > have. > > Jim Hodges > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15451	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/14/2001
Subject: Re: American Flyer running on AC?

Read your request more carefuly and found I didn't answer your question. All Flyer engines with series wound motors will also run on DC. Depending on your particular reversing unit it may not reverse well on DC. Some reverse units tend to be more sticky and hang up on DC power, which needs a tap on the tender with power off to free up the mechanism. This can happen on AC too but seems worse on DC. To convert to DC polarity reverse see the wiring diagram on Paul York's website. > beanie_bari@... wrote: > > > > I pulled out an old American Flyer set, and prepared to use my > > multimeter to test the transformers. I'm not sure if mine's really > > an 'S', it's one of the ones that has three rails. (Sorry, I mainly > > work with HO, so I'm new with this stuff). Flipped the meter to > > 15VDC, tested--blew the fuse in my meter. Darn. Got a new fuse, and > > noted that it says "Output xx Cycles" on the transformer. Wait a sec- > > -DC doesn't have cycles! Flipped the meter to 15VAC, and it works > > fine. Is this set really AC? And is there any way to make it accept > > DC? > > > > Thanks! > > > > --Beanie > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > -- > Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) > and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith > > "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool > than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15452	From: Eugene Steffan	Date: 11/15/2001
Subject: 718 Mail Car, Red Arm

Hi; hope the group can help. Looking through the price guides I noticed a variation in the 718 mail car where the pick-up arm may be Red. Checking my inventory I found several with blued steel arms and then I found one with a definite Red cast to it instead of the blue. My question is: Is this what is referred to as the Red arm? Any help would be appreciated. Gene

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15453	From: Horn, David	Date: 11/15/2001
Subject: transformers including updated summary

For a large two loop layout that you might run more than one train at a time on a loop (or multi-headed front ends), I recommend an 18V version of the 30B. For smaller less demanding layouts 15V versions of the 15B, 16B, 18B, 17B or 19B are fine. The 12B is no doubt a cheap powerhouse and great for accessories, but like some other two-digit and five-digit transformers the 12B uses a wiper or scraper instead of carbon roller. Scrapers are more prone to wearing out the coil. For extra kick to your switches, select one of the 18v (read the back plate) versions to power them - - snnapp!. Below is a summary from a survey I conducted some time ago. It's also available if you search S-Trains for "Transformers Summary" with the exception that since then I've found 18V and 15V 18B's. The table below has been updated with that "discovery". Measured Model # Rated v max volt w/(rated) Rated watts, scraper or roller, notes 1 1/2B 16v 16.3v 50W, scraper, I believe some 75w units are around. 4B 15v or 16v 17.2v (15v) 16.5v (16v) 100w, scraper. 8B 15v 16.8v 100w, scraper. 12B 15v 16.5v 250w, scrapers (2). 15B 15v or 16v 16.7v (15v) ___v (16v) 110w, roller. 16B 15v or 18v 16.9v (15v) 19v (18v) 175w or 190w, roller. 17B 15v 16.89v 190w, roller. 18B 15v or 18v 19v (15v) ___ (18v) 175w or 190w, roller. 19B 15v 16.6v 300w, roller. 30B 15v or 18v 19.3v (15v) 19.6v (18v) 300w, rollers (2). 22006 16v 16.5 v 25w, scraper. 22035 17v 19.5v 175w, _______. 22060 18v 19.91v 175w, _______. 22090 17v _____v 350w, _______. PS Keep the transformer data coming if you have some units that are not shown yet!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15454	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 11/15/2001
Subject: Re: 718 Mail Car, Red Arm

I also have at least one with the red cast to the metal arm. I have seen one though with the arm painted the same color as the body. Not sure since I've only seen the one, but I think this is what was meant by red arm. Roger Petrella Franktown, CO Eugene Steffan wrote: > Hi; hope the group can help. > Looking through the price guides I noticed a variation in the 718 mail > car where the pick-up arm may be Red. Checking my inventory I found > several with blued steel arms and then I found one with a definite Red > cast to it instead of the blue. > My question is: Is this what is referred to as the Red arm? Any help > would be appreciated. > Gene > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15455	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 11/15/2001
Subject: Re: 718 Mail Car, Red Arm

In a message dated 11/15/01 9:48:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, rogerpjr@... writes: << I have seen one though with the arm painted the same color as the body. Not sure since I've only seen the one, but I think this is what was meant by red arm. >> Red arms (as understood and desired by collectors) on a 718 are red-painted. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15456	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 11/15/2001
Subject: Re: Mold signature?

In a message dated 11/14/01 1:20:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, david_horn@... writes: << My 25057 exploding box car has an unusual marking that I was wondering if any of you have ever seen or heard of. It is identical on both side panels. It looks like an elongated s-shaped curve on the surface extending from the top edge to the bottom edge about 1" the right hand side of the door in each side panel. To the one side of the curve under certain light the plastic is glossy and smooth, on the other side it is more a matte finish. The printing is complete on the car, but the yellow does have a slightly different finish to the left of this line than to the right. >> Dave, If I understand your post correctly, what I believe you are observing is a knit line that results from two flows of plastic feed by different runners meeting each other in the middle of the part cavity. Visible knit lines are common visible features (to varying degrees of severity) on the surface of the walls of the exploding and mine carrier cars. Knit lines can occur by less than optimum injection flows and variations in melt temperatures. They could have fixed the problem, but these cars were 'just toys' and cosmetic concerns were not paramount. Painting would have covered these marks. Hope this helps. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15457	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/15/2001
Subject: Re: Transformer Info Needed

A few suggestions for powering a layout with AF transformers: 1) A normally open push button wired from the fixed post to track can provide a momentary voltage surge to "kick" reverse units into action. Any AF single button will work for this, BTW. 2) A normally closed push button on the base post to track is more convenient to kill power for reversing, etc. when using a "dead-man's" throttle transformer, also saves a lot of wear and tear on the turret tops. You can add an on-off switch too, for longer "off" times. 3) It is true that the high-voltage trans. will kick switches better, but they will also heat up light bulbs more too, resulting in control box melt-down. Best suggestions I've seen so far are high-voltage bulbs (where do we get them???) or isolating the bulbs from the high voltage and running them on lower voltage-I haven't done this yet, but hope to test some ideas out next year. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15458	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 11/15/2001
Subject: S-Video Volume III

Hi all, We are right on schedule. We start printing Volume III today. We will have some ready for mailing on Monday, Nov. 19th. It runs for 90 minutes and covers the NASG convention in Steamtown in July. It includes the tour layouts of several of the open door people in addition to the layouts at the convention. We have North Penn, Bristol, Cuyahoga Valley, Neshaminy, S-Helper, and other layouts. I'm not going to tell who is covered in the tour. It will be a surprise to many of you. After all the coverage of the convention we swing back west to revisit Jess Bennett, unencumbered by conventioneers. He is now 86 yr. old and still very chipper. He gives some info on layout building and lots of info on building brass locos. He has scratch built 49 and several others form import kits. Wait till you see the interiors of some of the "passenger" type cars he has scratch built. One has a scale size roll of TP in the head. We end this video with a short tribute to Ernie Horr who passed away in June of 2000. This is a GOOD video. We are also going to make available a "set of three" Vol.I, Vol. II, & Vol. III for the price of $36 plus $2 postage for those that may not have gotten in on the ground floor of this project. The current Vol. III will sell for $13 ppd. We'll take reservations on the set of 3 because we are only going to print 10 of them at this time. Volume III is on a first come first served basis. Please don't write and ask me to "Hold" one for you. If you wish to notify us that you have sent payment for one that's fine. We are printing an initial run of 80 copies of Vol. III. As the math shows you that's 100 total for all the videos. That's because I have to buy the tapes (3M Studio quality) in Box lots of 50 to keep this affordable. Thanks again to all for your support and input. Steve Blackburn, Sam Rapp, S-n'-S Trains, Boise, Idaho.....NASG, TCA, RMHR Payments by check or money order to: Steve Blackburn 3239 Pepperwood Dr. Boise, Idaho 83704

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15459	From: Horn, David	Date: 11/15/2001
Subject: FW: transformers including updated summary

Hopefully this format is better than the first one. It looked OK and printed OK on my computer, but apparently the formatting on Yahoo is different. I hope you can read/print this one more easily. Dave Measured Model# Rated v max volt w/(rated) Watts, scrpr/rllr, notes 1 1/2B 16v 16.3v 50W, scraper, 75w units? 4B 15v or 16v 17.2v (15v) 16.5v (16v) 100w, scraper. 8B 15v 16.8v 100w, scraper. 12B 15v 16.5v 250w, scrapers (2). 15B 15v or 16v 16.7v (15v) ___v (16v) 110w, roller. 16B 15v or 18v 16.9v (15v) 19v (18v) 175w or 190w, roller. 17B 15v 16.89v 190w, roller. 18B 15v or 18v 19v (15v) ___ (18v) 175w or 190w, roller. 19B 15v 16.6v 300w, roller. 30B 15v or 18v 19.3v (15v) 19.6v (18v) 300w, rollers (2). 22006 16v 16.5 v 25w, scraper. 22035 17v 19.5v 175w, _______. 22060 18v 19.91v 175w, _______. 22090 17v _____v 350w, _______. PS Keep the transformer data coming if you have some units that are not shown yet!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15460	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 11/15/2001
Subject: Re: Transformer Info Needed

Dave, SSS trains has 24 V. bulbs that will work in lots of AF applications to cut down on the heat damage. They aren't quite as bright naturally, but in most cases it doesn't matter,. Roger Petrella Franktown, CO David Dewey wrote: > A few suggestions for powering a layout with AF transformers: > 1) A normally open push button wired from the fixed post to track can > provide a momentary voltage surge to "kick" reverse units into action. Any > AF single button will work for this, BTW. > 2) A normally closed push button on the base post to track is more > convenient to kill power for reversing, etc. when using a "dead-man's" > throttle transformer, also saves a lot of wear and tear on the turret tops. > You can add an on-off switch too, for longer "off" times. > 3) It is true that the high-voltage trans. will kick switches better, > but they will also heat up light bulbs more too, resulting in control box > melt-down. Best suggestions I've seen so far are high-voltage bulbs (where > do we get them???) or isolating the bulbs from the high voltage and running > them on lower voltage-I haven't done this yet, but hope to test some ideas > out next year. > S' > David D. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15461	From: David	Date: 11/15/2001
Subject: Re: 718 Mail Car, Red Arm

Gene, the "Red Arm" 718 mail car will have the arm painted in that infamous Erector Red. If one can match that color with enamel, the car is easily faked.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15462	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/15/2001
Subject: Re: transformers including updated summary

I've been running a 12B a lot for well over 20 years and the wiper is still working and the coil is intact. Can't say the roller on a 30B is that dependable. No one should be afraid of a 12B based on my experience. "Horn, David" wrote: > > For a large two loop layout that you might run more than one train at a time > on a loop (or multi-headed front ends), I recommend an 18V version of the > 30B. For smaller less demanding layouts 15V versions of the 15B, 16B, 18B, > 17B or 19B are fine. The 12B is no doubt a cheap powerhouse and great for > accessories, but like some other two-digit and five-digit transformers the > 12B uses a wiper or scraper instead of carbon roller. Scrapers are more > prone to wearing out the coil. For extra kick to your switches, select one > of the 18v (read the back plate) versions to power them - - snnapp!. Below > is a summary from a survey I conducted some time ago. It's also available > if you search S-Trains for "Transformers Summary" with the exception that > since then I've found 18V and 15V 18B's. The table below has been updated > with that "discovery". > > Measured > Model # Rated v max volt w/(rated) Rated watts, scraper or > roller, notes > > 1 1/2B 16v 16.3v 50W, scraper, I > believe some 75w units are around. > 4B 15v or 16v 17.2v (15v) 16.5v (16v) 100w, scraper. > 8B 15v 16.8v 100w, > scraper. > 12B 15v 16.5v 250w, > scrapers (2). > 15B 15v or 16v 16.7v (15v) ___v (16v) 110w, roller. > 16B 15v or 18v 16.9v (15v) 19v (18v) 175w or 190w, > roller. > 17B 15v 16.89v 190w, roller. > 18B 15v or 18v 19v (15v) ___ (18v) 175w or 190w, > roller. > 19B 15v 16.6v 300w, > roller. > 30B 15v or 18v 19.3v (15v) 19.6v (18v) 300w, rollers (2). > 22006 16v 16.5 v 25w, scraper. > 22035 17v 19.5v 175w, _______. > 22060 18v 19.91v 175w, _______. > 22090 17v _____v 350w, _______. > > PS Keep the transformer data coming if you have some units that are not > shown yet! > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15463	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 11/15/2001
Subject: S-Video Vol.III

Hi all, We are right on schedule. We started printing Volume III today (11/15). We will have some ready for mailing on Monday, Nov. 19th. It runs for 90 minutes and covers the NASG convention in Steamtown in July. It includes the tour layouts of several of the open door people in addition to the layouts at the convention. We have North Penn, Bristol, Cuyahoga Valley, Neshaminy, S-Helper, and other layouts. I'm not going to tell who is covered in the tour. It will be a surprise to many of you. After all the coverage of the convention we swing back west to revisit Jess Bennett, unencumbered by conventioneers. He is now 86 yr. old and still very chipper. He gives some info on layout building and lots of info on building brass locos. He has scratch built 49 and several others form import kits. Wait till you see the interiors of some of the "passenger" type cars he has scratch built. One has a scale size roll of TP in the head. We end this video with a short tribute to Ernie Horr who passed away in June of 2000. This is a GOOD video. We are also going to make available a "set of three" Vol.I, Vol. II, & Vol. III for the price of $36 plus $2 postage for those that may not have gotten in on the ground floor of this project. The current Vol. III will sell for $13 ppd. We'll take reservations on the set of 3 because we are only going to print 10 of them at this time. Volume III is on a first come first served basis. Please don't write and ask me to "Hold" one for you. If you wish to notify us that you have sent payment for one that's fine. We are printing an initial run of 80 copies of Vol. III. As the math shows you that's 100 total for all the videos. That's because I have to buy the tapes (3M Studio quality) in Box lots of 50 to keep this affordable. Thanks again to all for your support and input. Steve Blackburn, Sam Rapp, S-n'-S Trains, Boise, Idaho.....NASG, TCA, RMHR Payments by check or money order to: Steve Blackburn 3239 Pepperwood Dr. Boise, Idaho 83704

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15464	From: Eugene Steffan	Date: 11/15/2001
Subject: Re: 718 Mail Car, Red Arm

Thanks to all for your help. Just like the stock market, my $240.00 mail car just got reduced to $25.00 (I hope). Gene, never a winner, Steffan (: David wrote: > Gene, the "Red Arm" 718 mail car will have the arm painted in that > infamous Erector Red. If one can match that color with enamel, the > car is easily faked. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15465	From: Gary Chidester	Date: 11/15/2001
Subject: Smoke units

I remember someone asking about smoke units for houses. I saw this and thought I would pass it along. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1661544778

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15466	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 11/16/2001
Subject: Transformer voltages

- Greeting`S' - The comments regarding brightly-burning lamp bulbs is a good one. Thanks, David. On my layout the lamps in the turnouts are powered not by the yellow lead from the machine but from a separate transformer (about 10 VAC) connected to the yellow and black terminals. That keeps the switch machines from glaring at me. Cheer`S' Rhett

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15467	From: mark.p.baker@bt.com	Date: 11/16/2001
Subject: KING'S CROSS RAILWAY BOOK FAIR

A note to let you know that it is time for the Autumn 2001 King's Cross Railway Book Fair again, which will be held at Keen House, the headquarters of the Model Railway Club (http://www.themodelrailwayclub.org/index.html), at 4, Calshot Street, London, N1, on Saturday 24th November 2001 between 11:00 and 15:30. Admission is just £1 and refreshments will be available all day from the Club's licensed bar. Further details are available from me direct and details of other similar events may be found on Tony Hillman's 'Railway Collectors Events Diary' web page at http://website.lineone.net/~tony.hillman/diary.html. Mark P. Baker.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15468	From: Rick Evans	Date: 11/16/2001
Subject: HO DeWitt Clinton Train set....

Yeah I know,....It isn't "S", but it is cool looking! Found it in the Smithsonian catalog,..or Catalogue, as they spell it!! Era: 1831,.. I posted a pic of it at the S-Trains site,..just click on photos. $75, comes with power pack and small loop of track. Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15469	From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT	Date: 11/16/2001
Subject: Re: HO DeWitt Clinton Train set....

They also make a JOHN BULL set.....I often run across the set at train shows.....Love to tell people I rode behind it in the wood coach that comes with the set.......I AM ONLY 63>>>>NOT THAT OLD !!!!...What actually happened was I was at the TCA musem area at york one year....about 84 - 85 and went to the Pennsy Museum down the road....They had just pulled the JOHN BULL AND COACH out of the museum and had finished servicing it......There was about 10 of us watching...the engineer said hop on....lets see how it runs.....off we went down the track for a couple of miles and back...it was later loaded on a flat car to take to the worlds fair out west...A ONCE IN A LIFETIME RIDE!!!!!! Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Evans" <comic@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 5:29 PM Subject: [S-Trains] HO DeWitt Clinton Train set.... > Yeah I know,....It isn't "S", but it is cool looking! Found it in the > Smithsonian catalog,..or Catalogue, as they spell it!! Era: 1831,.. I > posted a pic of it at the S-Trains site,..just click on photos. $75, > comes with power pack and small loop of track. > > Rick. > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15470	From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT	Date: 11/16/2001
Subject: Re: HO DeWitt Clinton Train set....

ALSO DON'T FORGET...THEY MAKE THE CLINTON, PRUSSIA AND JOHN BULL SETS....CHECK AT TRAIN SHOWS....CAN GO FOR AS LOW AS 30.00 A SET...HAVE SEEN AT 25.00 WHEN I GOT MY SETS......WOULD MAKE A GREAT PARK RIDE ON A "S" LAYOUT...........BOB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15471	From: Walt Danylak	Date: 11/16/2001
Subject: Re: HO DeWitt Clinton Train set....

--- In S-Trains@y..., "Rick Evans" <comic@d...> wrote: Yeah I know,....It isn't "S", but it is cool looking! ... It seems like I read somewhere a long time ago that while the set is gauged to HO, it is really S scale in size. It may have the John Bull and not the DeWitt Clinton. Does anyone own one? If so, measure it to see if it is really HO. Walt

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15472	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 11/17/2001
Subject: S-Video Vol. III

Hi all, We are right on schedule. We started printing Volume III on Thurs. 11/15. We will have some ready for mailing on Monday, Nov. 19th. It runs for 90 minutes and covers the NASG convention in Steamtown in July. It includes the tour layouts of several of the open door people in addition to the layouts at the convention. We have North Penn, Bristol, Cuyahoga Valley, Neshaminy, S-Helper, and other layouts. I'm not going to tell who is covered in the tour. It will be a surprise. After all the coverage of the convention we swing back west to revisit Jess Bennett, unencumbered by conventioneers. He is now 86 yr. old and still very chipper. He gives some info on layout building and lots of info on building brass locos. He has scratch built 49 and several others form import kits. Wait till you see the interiors of some of the "passenger" type cars he has scratch built. One has a scale size roll of TP in the head. We end this video with a short tribute to Ernie Horr who passed away in June of 2000. This is a GOOD video. We are also going to make available a "set of three" Vol.I, Vol. II, & Vol. III for the price of $36 plus $2 postage for those that may not have gotten in on the ground floor of this project. The current Vol. III will sell for $13 ppd. We'll take reservations on the set of 3 because we are only going to print 10 of them at this time. Volume III is on a first come first served basis. Please don't write and ask me to "Hold" one for you. If you wish to notify us that you have sent payment for one that's fine. We are printing an initial run of 80 copies of Vol. III. As the math shows you that's 100 total for all the videos. That's because I have to buy the tapes (3M Studio quality) in Box lots of 50 to keep this affordable. Thanks again to all for your support and input. Steve Blackburn, Sam Rapp, S-n'-S Trains, Boise, Idaho.....NASG, TCA, RMHR Payments by check or money order to: Steve Blackburn 3239 Pepperwood Dr. Boise, Idaho 83704

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15473	From: gpmlg@aol.com	Date: 11/17/2001
Subject: looking for 2001 xmas boxcar

Hi all, Forgot to put my order in for the 6-48342 Christmas car, please send me email or phone number of someone who have them. Thanks, George [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15474	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 11/17/2001
Subject: Jacksonville Florida

Hello Listers, I will be in Jacksonville Florida visiting the inlaws, next week (Turkey week)from Monday night till Saturday. Would anyone like to get together for coffee and a chat. A whole week with the inlaws might be more than I can take. I will have my car so if you live in that area and want to hook up, please let me know. ===== Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com Photography - Computers - Trains __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals http://personals.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15475	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 11/17/2001
Subject: New Video - S-Scale/S-Gauge

To get a taste of Steve's new video visit http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/con_video/vol3.html. I can't wait for my copy! (Hint)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15476	From: Bill Lane	Date: 11/17/2001
Subject: another decal plea

Hi All, I am now on the hunt for the C-D-S dry transfer sets # S359 and S 360 for the B & O M-54 Wagontop boxcar. How many do you have? I'll take 'em! Please reply to billlane@... Thanks Bill

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15477	From: Clifford Manning	Date: 11/17/2001
Subject: air chime whistle

Does the different modulators in the air chime create a horn or a whistle? This makes sense but all I must have is the diesel pitch. If a modulator tube will create a whisle sound, can I still get one? Suggestions and help would be appreciated. Clifford Manning

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15478	From: Rick Evans	Date: 11/17/2001
Subject: Re: New Video - S-Scale/S-Gauge

Paul Yorke wrote: > To get a taste of Steve's new video visit > http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/con_video/vol3.html. Paul,....seems to be an error with that address. Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15479	From: Tim Brown	Date: 11/17/2001
Subject: Scranton Train Show on Sunday

Hi All, Can anyone tell me, historically, has there been a lot of Gilbert Flyer stuff for sale at the Grzyboski train show in Scranton? This would be the one listed as 'Scranton's Premier Toy Train Show'. There's one scheduled for Sunday (11/18) and I'm thinking of making the trip, but I don't really know what to expect. Thanks, Tim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15480	From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT	Date: 11/17/2001
Subject: Re: Jacksonville Florida

PAUL...WOULD LOVED TO HAVE MET YOU AND TALKED TRAINS......BUT I'M HEADING OUT MONDAY AFTERNOON TO GO TO W. VA. FOR A WEEK OF WEIGHT GAINING...I MEAN TURKEY STUFFING....OH WELL YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN...DON'T FORGET NEXT SAT IS A TCA MEET ABOUT A 2 HOUR DRIVE FROM JAX IN ORLANDO.....A LITTLE "S" USUALLY THERE...WENT TO A MEET IN OCALA TODAY...ONE FELLOW HAD A PILE WITH REASONABLE PRICES...I THOUGHT, LIKE A 474/75 AT 375...CARS AT 20 TO 120 ( B& M) 3 RED STRIPED PASS CARS, ETC.... UNTIL HE SAID.....HALF PRICE!!!!!....TOOK ABOUT ALL...WENT TO ANOTHER TABLE...970 WITH OB 30.00 + MORE AND WELL ANOTHER 150.00 SPENT....WALKED AWAY FROM A NICE 21084 FOR 50.00....S T U P I D M E!!!!..... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Yorke" <s_trains@...> To: <s-scale@yahoogroups.com> Cc: <s-trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 10:58 AM Subject: [S-Trains] Jacksonville Florida > Hello Listers, > I will be in Jacksonville Florida visiting the inlaws, > next week (Turkey week)from Monday night till > Saturday. > Would anyone like to get together for coffee and a > chat. A whole week with the inlaws might be more than > I can take. > I will have my car so if you live in that area and > want to hook up, please let me know. > > ===== > Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com > Photography - Computers - Trains > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals > http://personals.yahoo.com > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15481	From: Rick Evans	Date: 11/17/2001
Subject: Re: New Video - S-Scale/S-Gauge

--- In S-Trains@y..., "Rick Evans" <comic@d...> wrote: > Paul Yorke wrote: > > To get a taste of Steve's new video visit > > http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/con_video/vol3.html. > > Paul,....seems to be an error with that address. > > Rick. It seems to be working now!! Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15482	From: Rick Evans	Date: 11/17/2001
Subject: I'm confused now!!

Hmmmm.....Glenn sent me the link of Steve's video and it works,... ..but when I click on it at the S-Trains site,...it tells me there is an error! Modern technology!! Gotta love it!! Rick. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15483	From: Ted Walton	Date: 11/17/2001
Subject: Re: HO DeWitt Clinton Train set....

Sounds and looks like a Buchman HO set I purchased during the Etoys sale last year for $21. It is a nice looking set. Ted Walton >Yeah I know,....It isn't "S", but it is cool looking! Found it in the >Smithsonian catalog,..or Catalogue, as they spell it!! Era: 1831,.. I >posted a pic of it at the S-Trains site,..just click on photos. $75, >comes with power pack and small loop of track. > >Rick. >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15484	From: Rick Evans	Date: 11/17/2001
Subject: Address request.......

Does anyone have an email or snail mail address for Paul C. Nelson, author of "Famous American Flyer trains"? Thanks, Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15485	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 11/17/2001
Subject: Re: Address request.......

Rick Evans wrote: > Does anyone have an email or snail mail address for Paul C. Nelson, > author of "Famous American Flyer trains"? > > Thanks, > Rick. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Waterloo, Iowa, last I heard--does that help any?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15486	From: David Garber	Date: 11/17/2001
Subject: address Paul Nelson

The last one I have is 1105 F Avenue, Grundy Center, Ia 50638.or also American Lutheran Church Grundy Center Iowa .these are a few years old but may still be good. Dave S. Garber

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15487	From: Tim Brown	Date: 11/18/2001
Subject: Scranton Train Show

Hi All, In regards to the inquiry I made concerning the Scranton Tran Show on Sunday: I take the total lack of response by the people 'in the know' in this group to indicate that the show is a dog. Thus, I will not be attending. Thanks, Tim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15488	From: Ted Weiler	Date: 11/18/2001
Subject: Re: New Video - S-Scale/S-Gauge

It worked for me! Ted Weiler ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Evans" <comic@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 12:36 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Re: New Video - S-Scale/S-Gauge > Paul Yorke wrote: > > To get a taste of Steve's new video visit > > http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/con_video/vol3.html. > > Paul,....seems to be an error with that address. > > Rick. > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15489	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 11/18/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1208

To reduce the voltage on bright burning lamps, simply install a 1 amp diode in the power (yellow wire) line. This reduces the power to 30 cycles and is much simpler than an additional transformer. If you have a tremendous amount of lights, a separate transformer is still a good idea. Jerry 77-11644 ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15490	From: Scott Brown	Date: 11/18/2001
Subject: Christmas Project

Guys, a week or so ago I posted regarding Pete Hildenbrand's Christmas Project. Pete fixes up AF trains and puts together sets for deserving children. Yesterday I got to spend time with Pete and the rest of our Atlantic Coast S Gauger family at our HUGE S gauge show in Richmond, Va. (I think Wayne Beachy will be posting about the great time we had). Pete has lots of stories about how the trains have made a difference in the lives of needy and special needs children. I hope he won't mind me mentioning that S Helper sent a big box of items to help out this year. What Pete needs most right now are some Atlantic engines. 302 s are the best since they both smoke and choo choo. If you have one that is just collecting dust and would like to share it with a child this Christmas, won't you please consider donating it to Pete ? Sorry for the blatant advertisement, but I believe in what Pete is doing for children and for our hobby. If you have any questions about his project, you can email Pete at djandpete@... . He can give you his address to send the engines to. There may be others of you involved in similar projects. Let us hear about what you are doing and how we can help. Thanks Scott Brown Atlantic Coast S Gaugers Washington & Old Dominion Division [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15491	From: Clifford Manning	Date: 11/18/2001
Subject: Air Chime Whistles

Do the different modulators in the American Flyer air chime horns create a horn or a whistle sound? Since they send a frequency it makes sense but all I must have is the diesel pitch. If a modulator tube will create a whistle sound, can I still get one? Suggestions and help would be appreciated. Clifford Manning

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15492	From: Rick Evans	Date: 11/18/2001
Subject: Speaking of Paul C. Nelson.......

I see that in the January issue of "Classic (you fill in the blank) Trains" magazine, that there will be an article by Paul on Lionel's modern-era production of American Flyer S gauge locos and rolling stock. At least there will be ONE article on Flyer/"S" in the Jan. issue!!!! Rick. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15493	From: Mark Preman	Date: 11/19/2001
Subject: TCA Train Show - Orlando Area

Saw it mentioned once. Decent little train show by the TCA at the Maitland Sheraton Hotel November 24th and 25th. Your humble sponsor will have 4 tables of "Flyer" for your shopping pleasure. Y'all come! Happy Holidays. Mark ===== Mark B. Preman AmericanFlyerTrains.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals http://personals.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15494	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 11/19/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1210

Air Chime Whistle Most whistle and horn generator tubes are similar and produce a 600 cycle sound. (the tube is a vibrator similar to the vibrator used in old car radios to create pulsating DC current to operate the interior coils & transformer in the radio). The A.F. Seam whistle controller # 710 has a variable control to change the frequence and sounds a little better than the # 708 controller. I have seen a circuit to replace the vibrator in car radios and believe there is a possibility to modify its use to the A.F. whistle. Jerry 77-11644 ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15495	From: pdng@aol.com	Date: 11/19/2001
Subject: E-UNIT wiring diagram

Hi Guys, Can anyone on the list send me a wiring diagram on how to wire a flyer e-unit in a 302 Atlantic. Thanks Paul [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15496	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/19/2001
Subject: Re: E-UNIT wiring diagram

Paul, Hmm, I should be able to do this in my sleep, but I looked it up! Rear truck rivet to top center finger and to unit coil, Front truck rivet to coil and front truck rivet to left (fireman's side) motor brush, and forward to smoke unit and headlamp. Top left (fireman's side) finger to left field wire. Bottom Right (engineer's side) finger to Right field wire. Bottom Center finger to Right Brush and forward to smoke unit and headlight. If you want "instant on" smoke, take the right smoke unit/headlight wire and don't connect it to the brush, but continue to the tender and connect at top center finger (this puts three wires to that one little eyelet!). Hope this is clear as mud. I have omitted the connecting plug, but if your engine is still wired, you should be able to choose the proper pins for the tender. (varies, can be upper pins brushes, lower pins coils, or can be outer pins brushes, inner pins coils! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15497	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/19/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1210

For a number of years I have been toying with the idea of a signal generator that would give three frequencies and a capacitor to provide a bit of "fade out" for proper steam whistle effect. Not being an electronic guru, I haven't chased it down much, except to ask a few gurus I know who tell me, "sure!" Besides choosing the proper three frequencies for musical intonation, they also have to be within the filtering range of the tender unit capacitors. I also wanted the unit to plug into the original AF button base, so there is the problem of finding unit base plugs, or just pins and molding them into a resin casting holding all the parts. Maybe one can even have different frequencies and even something closer to the Leslie Air Chime for the Alcos? S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15498	From: Jay	Date: 11/19/2001
Subject: Hartford CT show

Hi all, The train show is this weekend in Hartford; I believe Greenberg's. I am planning on going and have never been to one. How is the S-guage representation? Jay -- Jay _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15499	From: J.Frederick Boberts	Date: 11/19/2001
Subject: Vibrators

Since the whistle generator was the same size as a car radio Vibrator, it seems like some of the "old car" buffs on the list would know where to look for those. Factory radios, as well as after market, from the mid thirties to the end of using vacuum tubes, used a Vibrator. I remember reading how to use one to replace the Gilbert unit (which models to get)at some time in the past. Even a broken one could give you the plug(base) to use for the connection.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15500	From: David	Date: 11/19/2001
Subject: Re: TCA Train Show - Orlando Area

I see their still site hopping down there Mark. What happended to the fairgrounds in November??

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15501	From: rfgiardina@yahoo.com	Date: 11/19/2001
Subject: RFG parts now Direct from RFGCO.com

All of the more than 2000 parts that are manufactured in the U.S.A by RFG, in its' own manufacturing facility, are now available direct to you. Our Online Catalog features secure ordering and many of the parts you were previously able to get from other parts dealers. Now you can order direct and get, not only quality parts, but save money as well. And new parts are in the works. Parts RFG has refrained from making will soon be available at greatly reduced prices. Check out our web sites, and our prices. New items will be added this week, so check our NEW Products page often. RFG will not be undersold, and will, as it has for 25 years, deliver the highest quality parts. Parts that most parts dealers, until now, have relied on. And if we say we have it, we actually do. RFGCO also puts several items on Ebay each week at even bigger discounts, with no reserves! The R.F. Giardina, Co. POB 562, Oyster Bay, NY 11771-0562 Full Catalog $3.00 Post Paid, USA/ International $5.00 Phone Ordering Hours Mon-Fri 9:00-11:00 AM & 5:00-7:00 PM EST VISA / MASTERCARD / DISCOVER / AMERICAN EXPRESS S&H on all merchandise orders 10% -w/$5.00 min. $15.00 max. USA International 10% -w/$10.00 min. Phone/FAX 516-922-1364 NEW! Please note the following changes. E-mail service@... Home Page www.rfgco.com Online Parts Catalog www.rfgco.com/catalog/ AF History www.rfgco.com/history/ Photo Galleries www.rfgco.com/galleries/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15502	From: Jay E. Mellon	Date: 11/19/2001
Subject: News From New Orleans

Dear S Folk, We completed the second of our fall train exhibit efforts this past Saturday at a local TCA show. By all accounts, it was a big success. Our new display layout was the hit of the show. We have been working hard over the past 11 months on a modular expansion that doubles the size of the public display (10 by 15 feet). Norman(Maunz) and Allen(Evans) had DCC operations going reasonably smoothly, with the only major problem occurring when the engineers failed to properly communicate with each other, resulting in a "Casey Jones" mishap (no damage done). Hey, just like the real thing. Both diesel-powered and steam-powered versions of the Southern Crescent were magnificent and well received by the onlookers. Larry(Janeski) and Mike(Bushnell) successfully performed some scale switching operations for the crowd's entertainment and railroad education. We turned a number of attendee's heads to our scale and got them to thinking about it. That's why we do it. And the kids loved it! So, it was rewarding to see our hard work pay off in terms of entertainment and promotional value. And we welcomed our first long distance club member aboard. Chris Zizzo had the good sense to accompany his wife to New Orleans for her professional meeting so that he could partake of train activity and the country's best food. He helped us with operations and promoting s scale to the attendees. He even has one of our newly produced official club shirts. So, we now have a Long Island Division to our club. Finally, thanks to all our members who participated in the construction phase, as well as show setup and operations phase (especially Rhonda). It all paid off. Thanks also to John Foley and NASG for promotional literature that was handed out to interested attendees. The SHS catalogs are always a big hit. 'S'incerely, Jay Mellon Crescent City S Gaugers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15503	From: Bob	Date: 11/19/2001
Subject: 740-742 ?

Dear Group, I know that the American Flyer #742 was the reversing handcar.I know that it could reverse itself when the metal bar at the end of the handcar made contact with another object.My question to our elite panel is,does the #740 have a e-unit in it so that it is able to reverse itself,or does this handcar only travel in one direction ?? Please post any and all answers. Thanks, Bob p.s.-is anyone going to the Dover,N.J. train show this Sunday,November 25,2001 ?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15504	From: David	Date: 11/19/2001
Subject: Re: 740-742 ?

Bob, the 740 only runs in one direction.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15505	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 11/19/2001
Subject: S-Video Vol. III

Hi all, We are right on schedule. We started printing Volume III on Thurs. 11/15. The first 20 copies go out tomorrow, 11/20. It runs for 90 minutes and covers the NASG convention in Steamtown in July. It includes the tour layouts of several of the open door people in addition to the layouts at the convention. We have North Penn, Bristol, Cuyahoga Valley, Neshaminy, S-Helper, and other layouts. I'm not going to tell who is covered in the tour. It will be a surprise. After all the coverage of the convention we swing back west to revisit Jess Bennett, unencumbered by conventioneers. He is now 86 yr. old and still very chipper. He gives some info on layout building and lots of info on building brass locos. He has scratch built 49 and several others form import kits. Wait till you see the interiors of some of the "passenger" type cars he has scratch built. One has a scale size roll of TP in the head. We end this video with a short tribute to Ernie Horr who passed away in June of 2000. This is a GOOD video. We are also going to make available a "set of three" Vol.I, Vol. II, & Vol. III for the price of $36 plus $2 postage for those that may not have gotten in on the ground floor of this project. The current Vol. III will sell for $13 ppd. We'll take reservations on the set of 3 because we are only going to print 10 of them at this time. Volume III is on a first come first served basis. Please don't write and ask me to "Hold" one for you. If you wish to notify us that you have sent payment for one that's fine. We are printing an initial run of 80 copies of Vol. III. As the math shows you that's 100 total for all the videos. That's because I have to buy the tapes (3M Studio quality) in Box lots of 50 to keep this affordable. Thanks again to all for your support and input. Steve Blackburn, Sam Rapp, S-n'-S Trains, Boise, Idaho.....NASG, TCA, RMHR Payments by check or money order to: Steve Blackburn 3239 Pepperwood Dr. Boise, Idaho 83704

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15506	From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com	Date: 11/19/2001
Subject: S-Gauge Promoting

Hi all, Just came home from doing the GATS show in Lexington Kentucky, about 2 1/2 hour drive from Dayton Ohio. My wife and I took our S-Helper portable Christmas layout to promote s-gauge and share our little piece of Christmas layout with the masses. I have come back so disappointed it almost makes me want to give up this quest. I found out that Lexington has no hobby shops with s-gauge trains. As we were showing off our layout, we had several very interested families interested in s-gauge because of the size, durability and looks. What hurts is when they ask if s-gauge is readily available and I have to tell these people no it isn't. Unless you have a computer and can order directly from the companies. We had a shop in Dayton whose owner would order the s-gauge trains for me at no extra cost to me, he would place the order for me, and I would pay him the ivoice amount when it arrived, but he has closed his doors to pursue a new line of work. In one year of being able to get the s-gauge trains, I was able to sell over 2000.00 dollars of trains in a year, my cost. This included 2 starter sets which were for new s-gaugers. This weekend, I could have sold 2 more starter sets. One to a family who had purchased a HO train set the year before and could not keep it on the track nor keep it running. They were at our display over 30 Minutes. The man asked if he could buy a starter set from me. I had to tell him no, I can't get them anymore. I did give him my card and asked him to e-mail me if he could not get one off the computer. The second set was for an older gent looking to go DCC. When I told him of the capabilities of S-Helper and DCC, he asked if I had a set he could purchase. Same answer to him. His reply, I don't have a computer and don't want one. I also gave him my card. I later saw him leave with a lot of digitrax product to try to install in his HO gauge. Twice in one show we lost. I understand wanting to protect a Hobby Shop Dealer from someone that runs a business out of their house and offers big discount's because he has no overhead, but in certain cases, there needs to be a way we can get the s-gauge stock to sell at the shows when we go to promote s-gauge. IT IS SO DAMN HARD TO PROMOTE WHAT IS NOT AVAILABLE!!!!!! Many people go to these shows because they don't have a computer and they don't have a Hobby Shop willing to carry a DEAD SCALE TRAIN. Fella's, I am frustrated to the core after this weekend. Kalmbach publishing's world's greatest hobby promotion has a contest going and they ask, which scale train set would you like to receive? G,O,HO, N or Z. Where in the Hell is S-Gauge. They aren't even making it an option for the winner. Maybe it's time I start asking for a corporate sponsor. I want to promote S-Gauge trains. I don't want to have to open a store front in these times and carry models, paints, Lionel, HO and N just to promote s-gauge. Hell, I can't afford it. How many people can? If we want to grow S-Gauge the manufacturers need to make it available for us to sell. There are many legitimate businesses run out of homes then expanded as they grow, Sorry I have taken so much space, please, don't take my tirade personal. I am just frustrated. Anyone else have an opinion on this? THE TRAINNUT CHRIS [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15507	From: The Reis's	Date: 11/19/2001
Subject: SHS PS@ Hoppers for Sale

I have the following 5 S helper service 2 Bay PS-2 hoppers for sale. $22 each postpaid in the USA. $20 each if 2 or more wanted. 1. 00037-2 CSX (226062 on shell) 2. 00089 Grand Trunk (111163 on car) 3. 00089 Grand Trunk (111163 removed and replaced with 64138 decal) 4. 00034-1 Rock Island (507103 on car) 5. 00034-1 Rock Island (507182 on car) All have their original Boxes with foam inserts, All have High Rail wheels and Knuckle couplers. If you really need Scale wheels I will find some from one of my other hoppers and trade them out for the High-rail wheels and couplers. Eric Reis Kenmore, Wa.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15508	From: TWesthelle@aol.com	Date: 11/19/2001
Subject: Re: Dead Gauge

So many of us are true lovers of the S Gauge. It all started with Gilbert, and has evolved into much more, but the base of it still has direct ties to Gilbert/American Flyer. The part that is the irritant to me, Lionel, holds the patents, tool and die, and the equipment to basically provide us with all the stuff we ever could dream of. If they are unwilling, or the folks in China don't know how to use the equipment, make it available to someone, or another corporation to provide the goodies. Until this is open, S Gauge is on life support. Just my two cents, a rare input from me, but had to speak my mind. Thanks, Tom Westhelle Oviedo, FL

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15509	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 11/19/2001
Subject: Re: S-Gauge Promoting

Chris, I went to the TTOS Cal-Stuart show this weekend in Pas. Cal. There was quite a bit of Flyer there Along with A guy selling SHS & AM...Also there was the Brothers from Clasic Trains ewith there new Solid rail flex track VERY NICE stuff....There seems to be no shortsage of S in the LA area....I will be in the Medford Ore area this week at the Show they have there some Flyer there but no shops that carry S in that area....Mike S. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15510	From: Don Thompson	Date: 11/19/2001
Subject: Re: Dead Gauge

Dear Tom, I am not sure about your dreams, but mine always included GG-1s, F3s, RS-3s, FAs, full length Pullman cars, extended vision cabooses, SD-60s, SW-1s, more than only one radius of curved track, etc...a lot more than the tooling Lionel now has in their possession. Don T. TWesthelle@... wrote: > ...Lionel, holds the patents, tool and die, and the equipment to basically > provide us with all the stuff we ever could dream of.... > Thanks, > Tom Westhelle > Oviedo, FL -- -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15511	From: The Reis's	Date: 11/19/2001
Subject: Re: S-Gauge Promoting

I went to the GATS show in Seattle (Puyallup) this weekend and was very disappointed on the availability of any S helper or American models items. The local hobby shop does not have the dedicated S-train people it used to have so their quantity of S-gauge items has also dropped dramatically. Maybe we are not buying so much as we used to. The thing I see is no one has the new stuff on display at the shows or in the shops. I am sure this keeps Ron B. and Don T up nights trying to get more items out there. At the Gats show there were 4 or 5 people selling Flyer and 2 selling the Lionel and MTH accessories. I saw only 4 s-helper older boxcars and hoppers on one back shelf. I do have 2 local hobby shops that will order SHS or AM items for me but they will not stock anything. They basically order as a favor and hope to sell me the other things like trees, etc. Admittedly I order from out of state to save 20% off their prices and the 8.9% sales tax on top of that. What may have helped you is if you had taken one of the SHS catalogues (tied to the table) and informed people where they can get their own catalog or a phone number/address/website for SHS and AM. They do operate well without a computer, it just takes more time. On another note, My AM UP E-8 set arrived and they look and run great pulling the Budd Cars . A set of these at a show would really get some interest , but there was none and there are only 2 real shows in the Seattle area a year, well..... maybe next November. Just some rambling thoughts to add to yours. Eric Reis Kenmore, Wa. -----Original Message----- From: Cbtrainnut1@... [mailto:Cbtrainnut1@...] Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 5:13 PM To: s-trains Subject: [S-Trains] S-Gauge Promoting Hi all, Just came home from doing the GATS show in Lexington Kentucky, about 2 1/2 hour drive from Dayton Ohio. My wife and I took our S-Helper portable....... .......Anyone else have an opinion on this? THE TRAINNUT CHRIS [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15512	From: Thomas@PAHeritageModels.com	Date: 11/19/2001
Subject: Re: Hartford CT show

We will be there! Tom D. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay" <jaay_st@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 12:47 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Hartford CT show > Hi all, > The train show is this weekend in Hartford; I believe Greenberg's. I > am planning on going and have never been to one. How is the S-guage > representation? > Jay > -- > Jay > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15513	From: David	Date: 11/19/2001
Subject: Re: S-Gauge Promoting

I did my part. I wrote a scathing letter to Kalmbach.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15514	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/19/2001
Subject: Re: 740-742 ?

My handcar, which I don't know the number of, does ot reverse and contains no reversing unit. Bob wrote: > > Dear Group, > I know that the American Flyer #742 was the reversing > handcar.I know that it could reverse itself when the metal bar at the > end of the handcar made contact with another object.My question to our > elite panel is,does the #740 have a e-unit in it so that it is able to > reverse itself,or does this handcar only travel in one direction ?? > Please post any and all answers. > Thanks, > Bob > > p.s.-is anyone going to the Dover,N.J. train show this Sunday,November > 25,2001 ? > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15515	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 11/19/2001
Subject: 740-742?

The 742 reversing handcar has a tiny bakelite dpdt rocker switch inside it. This switch is thrown by the metal rod when the handcar strikes an object such as a bumper. The switch reverses the direction of the motor exactly as a reverse unit would. The switch was too fragile for this application and is often found broken. Repros are available. There is also a contact outside the switch housing which is identical to the contacts on reverse unit fingerboards. The 742 reversing handcar typically runs poorly in one direction. It wasn't Gilbert's best design. For more information, see the Roundhouse column in the Jan-Feb '97 S Gaugian. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15516	From: Howard Sheffield	Date: 11/19/2001
Subject: Re: S-Gauge Promoting

Eric, If you will come to the GATS show in Sacramento, CA on Jan 26 & 27/02, or the Santa Rosa GATS on 6/1/02, or other local shows, you will see a layout of AM,SHS, and Portlines running with the newest items as well as no less than 2 sales tables crammed with the new products. We have had the same dealer problems so decided to do something about it here. It isn't easy and costs, but that is the price to pay for promotion. Howard Sheffield Howard' S Trains >I went to the GATS show in Seattle (Puyallup) this weekend and was very >disappointed on the availability of any S helper or American models items. >The local hobby shop does not have the dedicated S-train people it used to >have so their quantity of S-gauge items has also dropped dramatically. >Maybe we are not buying so much as we used to. The thing I see is no one >has the new stuff on display at the shows or in the shops. I am sure this >keeps Ron B. and Don T up nights trying to get more items out there. At >the Gats show there were 4 or 5 people selling Flyer and 2 selling the >Lionel and MTH accessories. I saw only 4 s-helper older boxcars and hoppers >on one back shelf. > >I do have 2 local hobby shops that will order SHS or AM items for me but >they will not stock anything. They basically order as a favor and hope to >sell me the other things like trees, etc. Admittedly I order from out of >state to save 20% off their prices and the 8.9% sales tax on top of that. > >What may have helped you is if you had taken one of the SHS catalogues (tied >to the table) and informed people where they can get their own catalog or >a phone number/address/website for SHS and AM. They do operate well >without a computer, it just takes more time. > >On another note, My AM UP E-8 set arrived and they look and run great >pulling the Budd Cars . A set of these at a show would really get some >interest , but there was none and there are only 2 real shows in the >Seattle area a year, well..... maybe next November. > >Just some rambling thoughts to add to yours. > >Eric Reis >Kenmore, Wa. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Cbtrainnut1@... [mailto:Cbtrainnut1@...] >Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 5:13 PM >To: s-trains >Subject: [S-Trains] S-Gauge Promoting > >Hi all, > Just came home from doing the GATS show in Lexington Kentucky, about 2 1/2 >hour drive from Dayton Ohio. My wife and I took our S-Helper portable....... >.......Anyone else have an opinion on this? > >THE TRAINNUT >CHRIS > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to >s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > _______________________________________________________________________ Free Domain Name Registration with Web Hosting at Lanset Communications. 56k Dialup, Web Design, and Colocation at http://www.lanset.net

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15517	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/19/2001
Subject: Re: S-Gauge Promoting

Howard's post was being modest. At the last show in Roseville, we had one corner space with three tables full of NEW S stuff, and the layout with three loops of trains. Inner loop of AF w/barrel loader, sidings w/ sawmill & log unloading car, and Coal Loader. Also a bell danger and crossing light protecting the highway crossing. There's also a Gabe in there with the buttons up front for the kids to push. Middle loop is SHS track, outside loop is AM sectional track.There are also three bridges the tracks go through--an unidentified metal through truss, then a plate girder, and the inside loop is the little curved truss bridge. We run AF on the inside loop, usually a steamer. The middle loop has an SP freight w/ the Black Widow F's, and the outside loop is usually a passenger train using either AM E's or WP winged F's---or a loco someone wants to test! With all the noise from the sound units, gabe, bell danger, billboard whistle, etc. we get LOTS of attention. So many people with no idea that S is still alive! My job is to keep the trains rolling, and the kids entertained. Howard's better half, Judy was a big help feeding barrels and lumber and talking to the kids. My Linda helped some too, but mostly watched the tables for Howard. Howard was busy answering questions and making deals! The new stuff ran almost constantly from 10 to 5 both days. Only problem was with some coupler screws that worked loose. These locos are so stable, they even run around the loop derailed! (no switch points to make the problem really noticeable!). A lot of people thought the different track types were different scales! Howard has really stepped out with an investment in stock to promote S. So far, I think we have done some good, got lots more to educate though! Kalmbach should hang their head in shame for not putting S in their campaign. It is obvious to me that the products we have are superior in both "tinplate" and "scale" to the competition from the other gauges (within the same price ranges--and if you want to compare expensive brass stuff, well, we've got that in S too!). I dunno about Howard, but we're (Linda & I) having a great time with our part in this! Besides, Judy's cooking is great! (yeah, he even puts us up when we're there!) S' David D PS I set up two cop cars pulling over a sports car to see the audience's reaction, and no one noticed! Hmm. . .

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15518	From: Rick Evans	Date: 11/20/2001
Subject: S-Gauge Promoting & the CTT '02 Sweepstakes....

**(((What may have helped you is if you had taken one of the SHS catalogues (tied to the table) and informed people where they can get their own catalog or a phone number/address/website for SHS and AM. They do operate well without a computer, it just takes more time.))*** Eric pretty much makes the same point that was rolling around in my noggin'.....a computer isn't the only way to order goodies. Good ol' snail mail order, or over the phone. Point them to the magazines with the "S" ads,...even CTT run ads for "S". We are getting to lazy with all this computer stuff!! Although I love it!! Copies of a list that could be passed out to future S'ers with all major "S" companies,..SHS, AM, etc. All the Doug Pecks, Ron Leventons, Mark Premans, etc., etc., etc. They all have snail mail addresses and telephone (remember those?) numbers I'm sure. Here's an issue that I have been wanting to make a comment about,...the CCT 2002 Sweepstakes. There is a Grand Prize and six other prizes,...But what is my incentive to enter?? NO "S"!! A year subscription to CTT wouldn't be too bad,...and I guess one could ebay off the "O" stuff if ya won it! But why can't CTT give ya a choice of a "O" gauge loco, or a "S" gauge loco?? SHS and AM make locos,...have CTT ever contacted them even? I will be sending an email to good ol' Neil at CTT about this. Been buggin' me! Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15519	From: louis glumac	Date: 11/20/2001
Subject: I could explain the point.

Provide an example of subjective and objective data that you obtained from the interview. An example of the subjective data, was the back pain that the patient felt. An example of the objective data the patients blood pressure of 150/95. 4.List two examples of open-ended questions that you utilized in the interview. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15520	From: ljaneski@bellsouth.net	Date: 11/20/2001
Subject: Re: News From New Orleans

Jay Did y'all meet up with Chris Zisssssssso the next day. Thanks Larry Janeski > > From: "Jay E. Mellon" <jmellon@...> > Date: 2001/11/19 Mon PM 05:04:07 EST > To: <ARANDALLW@...>,<mmbushnell@...>, <callall@...>, > <ljaneski@...>, <W_A_E@...>, > <choomeyer@...>, <noramz@...>, > <s-scale@yahoogroups.com>, <s-trains@yahoogroups.com> > Subject: News From New Orleans > > Dear S Folk, > > We completed the second of our fall train exhibit efforts this past Saturday at a local TCA show. By all accounts, it was a big success. Our new display layout was the hit of the show. We have been working hard over the past 11 months on a modular expansion that doubles the size of the public display (10 by 15 feet). Norman(Maunz) and Allen(Evans) had DCC operations going reasonably smoothly, with the only major problem occurring when the engineers failed to properly communicate with each other, resulting in a "Casey Jones" mishap (no damage done). Hey, just like the real thing. Both diesel-powered and steam-powered versions of the Southern Crescent were magnificent and well received by the onlookers. Larry(Janeski) and Mike(Bushnell) successfully performed some scale switching operations for the crowd's entertainment and railroad education. We turned a number of attendee's heads to our scale and got them to thinking about it. That's why we do it. And the kids loved it! So, it was rewarding to see our hard work pay off in terms of entertainment and promotional value. > > And we welcomed our first long distance club member aboard. Chris Zizzo had the good sense to accompany his wife to New Orleans for her professional meeting so that he could partake of train activity and the country's best food. He helped us with operations and promoting s scale to the attendees. He even has one of our newly produced official club shirts. So, we now have a Long Island Division to our club. > > Finally, thanks to all our members who participated in the construction phase, as well as show setup and operations phase (especially Rhonda). It all paid off. Thanks also to John Foley and NASG for promotional literature that was handed out to interested attendees. The SHS catalogs are always a big hit. > > 'S'incerely, > Jay Mellon > Crescent City S Gaugers > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15521	From: W. Thomas Boussum	Date: 11/20/2001
Subject: Care and feeding of whistle controllers.

My dad, who was employed for many years at the Reading Locomotive Shop, purchased Haven Cab Co. in Schuylkill Haven, PA when he left the Reading Railroad in 1948. Im 1950 he outfitted the cabs with two-way radios to improve efficiency of operations. One of his particular peeves was when a driver started the cab without turning the radio off. It seems that this literally welded the vibrator points. Pop was a radio enthusiast from the 20s. It was not long before he began taking the vibrators apart to clean the points. If they were badly burned he would use an ignition file to start off. Then he would hit the points with gradually finer abrasive material until finally he would just take a piece of writing paper that had a slightly abrasive feel to it to polish the points. He got a lot of life from his vibrators that way. The same approach should work with the vibrators used by A.C. Gilbert whistle controllers. I don't know this from experience, since I had severaL locomotives with whistles, but none of them ever worked. My cure for this was to put a whistling billboard under the layout that was connected to an old Lionel transformer's variable voltage outputs. This allowed variations that sounded like a real steam engine's whistle. By the way, Terry Harrison had a list of S scale automobiles available on the S scale digest. As I read through the list I noticed two 1958 Plymouths. My dad had two of these as taxicabs. It seems that the front ends lasted just about 10,000 miles, and then the ball joints went out. So to be correct for S scale, the "three wheel" version should work well. That is three wheels in the normal position and one of the front wheels tucked neatly beneath the chassis. It's the user's choice as to which wheel should be tucked under. W. Thomas Boussum "If you want to bake an apple pie from scratch, you must start by creating the universe." Carl Sagan in "Cosmos."

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15522	From: Roy E. Plotnick	Date: 11/20/2001
Subject: S-fest & competing events

Just some brief notes on the last weekends S-fest in Beloit. Judging by the number at the banquet, there was an excellent turnout. A number of manufacturers were well represented, and a good selection of both old and new S-gauge was on sale. Prices seem to have stabilized, although part prices still seem to be climbing ($65 for a SIT smoke unit). Al Roman once again won best overall in the train races (I fell to 3rd in Flyer steam). It was nice to see some kids participating in the races. Stateline S-Gaugers (the hosting organization) seems to do a wonderful job on keeping spouses/families involved. The banquet speaker, who discussed the Great Western, showed 500 slides (even the most dedicated train buffs started to nod off a bit)! Food was good, though. Visited Vera Geerts small but packed attic layout on Sunday. A thought. Perhaps the lack of S at the GATS show in Lexington was due to competition from S-fest? -Roy

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15523	From: aag_rlg@yahoo.com	Date: 11/20/2001
Subject: S-Gauge Promoting

Hi: Just wanted to let you know my experience with trying to promote S Scale. I have constructed a holiday layout for an open house at the historical society in our village. (My wife is on the Board of Directors). The layout is primarily AF with accessories that the kids can operate. I figured that people might ask questions about S Scale and therefore I sent an e-mail to John Foley at the NASG and Don Thompson at S Helper. I was hoping to get a few informational items from John and perhaps 10 catalogs from Don. Frankly I was overwhelmed with their response. John sent 20 or 30 copies of the most recent Dispatch and too many to count copies of a list of S Scale and AF suppliers with complete contact information, as well as NASG information and membership forms. I almost fainted when I opened the box Don sent. It had 50 catalogs and 50 Toy Train brochures from CTT and a TOFC NYC car donated to the historical society. If anyone asks me at the open house where they can buy S Scale or AF I will have more than enough material to give them so that they can buy what they want with or without a computer. I don't know if my small operating layout will result in any converts, but if nothing else, the response of John and Don shows the type of people we have in S Scale. Thanks to them both. Art Goodell

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15524	From: rfgiardina@yahoo.com	Date: 11/20/2001
Subject: Re: 740-742

RFG makes the reversing switch for the 742, along with the contacts and the metal bar. The contacts are similar to the reverse unit fingers, except the material is thicker and the shape is different. It is not bakelight that the unit is made from, but paper phenolic. 740s can be converted to 742s with a little modification. RFG

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15525	From: Scott Holm	Date: 11/20/2001
Subject: S-Fest

Roy left out who won the steam engine race or the incline challenge. The winner of both is a fellow I know pretty well: ME! It was really fun to see how excited all the kids were while rooting my Santa Fe LTI alco all the way to the top in the tie-breaking run at half power. The steam engine winner was a 21156 docksider that I bought at last year's S-Fest, which was and still is pretty much of a basket case. Almost every part of it is corroded and replacement docksider parts are hard to come by, but a lot of epoxy, super zap, and JB weld held it together long enough to race. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15526	From: Scott Holm	Date: 11/20/2001
Subject: Heavyweight chassis?

Does anyone know of a source for heavyweight chassis? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15527	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 11/20/2001
Subject: Re: Dead Gauge

Tom Westhelle wrote: The part that is the irritant to me, Lionel, holds the patents, tool and die, and the equipment to basically provide us with all the stuff we ever could dream of. If they are unwilling, or the folks in China don't know how to use the equipment, make it available to someone, or another corporation to provide the goodies. Until this is open, S Gauge is on life support. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Just because S doesn't have an active American Flyer Corporation, doesn't mean it's on life support. Seems to me that American Models and S Helper Service have both been growing steadily since they were born. Additionally, Mike's Train House has lately been reproducing some of Flyer's accessories. To expect that Lionel is going to revive Flyer to say, late 1950's coverage, or sell it off to encourage competition with their own products, is just a fantasy. It would be nice, but it ain't gonna happen. Even Lionel O gauge nostalgia only went so far and Lionel has had to pour resources into dealing with their O gauge competition. Plus, they just got yet another new C.E.O. and it looks like Dick Maddox is going to leave sometime next year. Besides, my best running Flyer (classic ACG or Lionel production) doesn't even come close to how well my worst running AM or SHS product. (Oops...wait a minute, I don't have a worst running AM or SHS product!) The way I see it. American Flyer is the past and American Models and S Helper Service are the present and future. Be seeing you... Rich G. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15528	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 11/20/2001
Subject: Re: Dead Gauge

Please tell me what Lionel has to do with saving S scale. Their dies, tools, and molds are for 50 year old stuff. Let the past die and look to the bright future that is in the hands of Don Thompson, Bill Wade, Des Plains Hobbies and others who are running rings around Lionel. "The king is dead, long live the king. (The new one.) Thank you Larry Jackman Rich Gajnak wrote: > > Tom Westhelle wrote: > > The part that is the irritant to me, Lionel, holds > the patents, tool and die, and the equipment to basically provide us with > all >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15529	From: SMASTER636@aol.com	Date: 11/20/2001
Subject: AF Question

S-Trains Group: My question: I have a modest two track AF lay out that put up around the Christmas Holidays. Most of my equipment is post war, circa 1959 - ?????. When I was a kid, one of my aunts gave me a Lionel Newstand for my lay out. God Bless her - she didn't know the diffference between AF and Lionel. It's out of scale but I still use it. It's the newsstand with the guy selling newspapers and the dog running around the fire hydrant. When I turn on the device, it buzzes badly. How can I hook up it up properly to my AF power sources? Advice please. Joe Fariello Fort Lauderdale, FL.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15530	From: David	Date: 11/20/2001
Subject: Re: AF Question

Joe.... Yup, thats Lionel alright, loud and obnoxious. Hook up is essentially the same as on a lionel layout with a lionel transformer. One lead from accessory to the 15V fixed terminal on the AF transformer. One lead to a button of your choice. One lead from the button to the BASE Post on the AF transformer. Enjoy...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15531	From: afstrains@aol.com	Date: 11/20/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1211

In a message dated 11/20/01 2:31:17 AM Eastern Standard Time, S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes: > The train show is this weekend in Hartford; I believe Greenberg's. I > am planning on going and have never been to one. How is the S-guage > representation? > There will be several S gauge dealers there including us (John and Robin Vanacore). See you there. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15532	From: Michael Greene	Date: 11/21/2001
Subject: Re: Dead Gauge

I can easily agree with Larry's statement. Nothing Lionel could produce from the tooling they have (or at least I suspect they have) would have persuaded me to move from N to S. If S meant Lionel's products I would never even have considered S. I would have gone to another scale. The strength and promise of S in the future are the manufacturers who are delivering high quality, current state of the art products in the market for S scale like S Helper Service, BTS, S Scale America/Des Plaines, River Raisin, American Models, Banta Modelworks, American Model Builders, etc. + the DCC manufacturers, all of who IMHO build & deliver better products than Lionel is delivering today (even in O, their prime market). Just my 2 cents. Michael At 07:08 PM 11/20/2001 -0500, lawrence jackman wrote: >Please tell me what Lionel has to do with saving S scale. >Their dies, tools, and molds are for 50 year old stuff. Let >the past die and look to the bright future that is in the >hands of Don Thompson, Bill Wade, Des Plains Hobbies and >others who are running rings around Lionel. "The king is >dead, long live the king. (The new one.) >Thank you >Larry Jackman > >Rich Gajnak wrote: > > > > Tom Westhelle wrote: > > > > The part that is the irritant to me, Lionel, holds > > the patents, tool and die, and the equipment to basically provide us with > > all > > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to >s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15533	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 11/21/2001
Subject: New file uploaded to S-Trains

Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the S-Trains group. File : /PennWestern/pwpics.htm Uploaded by : rhoffman@... Description : PW Picture Tour You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/PennWestern/pwpics.htm To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, rhoffman@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15534	From: eddie rickenbacker	Date: 11/21/2001
Subject: Re: Dead Gauge

S isn't a dead gauge-it's merely far from mainstream. Standard gauge was dead for over 50 years-only limited production of repro equipment and the McCoy engines and rolling stock were available, and a lot of that was by word-of-mouth. Now, thanks to MTH, trackage, accessories and rolling stock are readily available. The reason is economics-a sufficient number of PURCHASES were made to justify more production. What happened to the S Flying Yankee? Lots of talk, no green. If S had a stronger support of Lionel's version of Flyer, perhaps MTH would try the waters with something other than accessories-the Flyer repros they have produced are "safe" inasmuch as they are usable with 0-27 and small 0 equipment. MTH likely views SHS and AM as specialty producers, and penetrating their market isn't a viable tooling and promotional risk. Comparing Lionel's half-hearted S production to modern S equipment isn't viable-it's more of a Gilbert revival with modern graphics. Most SHS and AM operators seem to feel that Gilbert is inferior to the current S offerings-so why should, or would, Gilbert re-hash be any different? The product direction was?/is? new Gilbert for Gilbert fans. Like the new Marx, it is at best a niche, nostalgia-driven segment of the market. Also like the new Marx, fans of the "real" marque scream that it's an injustice to the original. There will never be a Gilbert,new trainset again. ANY product marketed as such would be a new item being pushed as being "just like the real thing". Well, how authentic would you have it be? Would anyone care to claim a case of the hots for an F-9 set with fixed couplers and fall-apart Pikemaster track? Or a can-motored Casey Jones? Not this boy. A GG-1? Gilbert never made one. Looking at the way Flyer de-evolved in their final years and comparing it to the Flyer of 1955-58 makes MPC and LTI Flyer look great. Gilbert is gone, gone, gone. AM and SHS are the present of S. MTH may be it's future. Gilbert and Lionel Flyer are now the province of collector/operator people, not the leading edge of S trains. I don't really care about the future of the product-I operate and collect in 3 gauges, but Gilbert Flyer in S is by far my favorite and most well-represented genre. I love the ruggedness, the robust construction, the reliability-and i never had a problem with a Lionel produced item, either. I only have one SHS set-B&O heavyweights. These, i consider to be cheesy-no lights, all plastic, needed weight added to track well, extremely poor quality trucks that were in pieces in the container. I corrected all this, and would not consider another SHS product unless i can be assured that the quality has improved. I do not mind, and in fact expect, problems with 50 and 60 year old equipment.So am I a mainstream S gauger? I doubt it, but there's my buck's worth on the topic-john marganski __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15535	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 11/21/2001
Subject: S-Video Vol. III

The first batch of videos that we picked up have all been mailed. The Company printing them for us is closed until Monday, Nov 29. We will have some more to mail during that week. Just to advise you in case yours takes a little longer to get to you than the normal slow way it gets to you. We will also have some of the 3 Vol. sets to mail in that week. Thanks everybody, and have a nice Thanksgiving Holiday. Steve & Sam

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15536	From: Doug Peck	Date: 11/21/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] VIRUS alert

WATCH OUT! Someone has unknowingly opened and thus sent out the "Snow White" HAHAHA virus again. Arrived here this AM. DELETE it without opening it! Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15537	From: Scott Holm	Date: 11/21/2001
Subject: Ebay caboose

Will sombody please put them out of their misery? It's up for auction for the 5th time and the minimum bid is still 9.99. If it weren't for that, even I'd bid a quarter on it. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1666446051 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15538	From: michael prell	Date: 11/21/2001
Subject: Re: Dead Gauge

Yes, and not to sound isolationist, but won't it be great when the Big-L moves all of it's manufacturing to our good old friends in CHINA? After a hundred years here, they've sure as hell shown their true colors, and they ain't red, white and blue,well...well,RED maybe!!! I wonder what A.C. would think about all this? Hell, what about J.L.C. for that matter? Anyway, take yer old trains out, dust 'em off and run 'em and shout, "Happy Thanksgiving! " Be thankful you've got 'em to play with!Even if some should happen to be old Big L stuff. --- Michael Greene <mgreene@...> wrote: > I can easily agree with Larry's statement. Nothing > Lionel could produce > from the tooling they have (or at least I suspect > they have) would have > persuaded me to move from N to S. If S meant > Lionel's products I would > never even have considered S. I would have gone to > another scale. The > strength and promise of S in the future are the > manufacturers who are > delivering high quality, current state of the art > products in the market > for S scale like S Helper Service, BTS, S Scale > America/Des Plaines, River > Raisin, American Models, Banta Modelworks, American > Model Builders, etc. + > the DCC manufacturers, all of who IMHO build & > deliver better products than > Lionel is delivering today (even in O, their prime > market). > > Just my 2 cents. > Michael > > At 07:08 PM 11/20/2001 -0500, lawrence jackman > wrote: > >Please tell me what Lionel has to do with saving S > scale. > >Their dies, tools, and molds are for 50 year old > stuff. Let > >the past die and look to the bright future that is > in the > >hands of Don Thompson, Bill Wade, Des Plains > Hobbies and > >others who are running rings around Lionel. "The > king is > >dead, long live the king. (The new one.) > >Thank you > >Larry Jackman > > > >Rich Gajnak wrote: > > > > > > Tom Westhelle wrote: > > > > > > The part that is the irritant to me, Lionel, > holds > > > the patents, tool and die, and the equipment to > basically provide us with > > > all > > > > > > >S-Trains list sponsor: > http://www.americanflyertrains.com > >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories > too! > > > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > >s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > S-Trains list sponsor: > http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories > too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > ===== Being angry is the same as holding a hot coal in the palm of your hand. You want to hold on to it in order to throw it at another, but only hurt yourself in doing so. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15539	From: Don Thompson	Date: 11/21/2001
Subject: Re: Dead Gauge

Dear Michael, Anyone that owns AC Gilbert HO track with the red brass rails on plastic roadbed that was made in the 60's might know what AC would think.. It reads "MADE IN JAPAN" on the back. Don michael prell wrote: > ...I wonder what A.C. would think about all this?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15540	From: Nick and Becky Colleran	Date: 11/21/2001
Subject: Horn generator contact cleaning

I have cleaned the contact points on the Gilgert horn generators with audio patch bay abrasive. This is like a ruberized cloth that polishes contacts. They work as good as when they left the factory after cleaning. --- Nick ________________________________________________________________________ >________________________________________________________________________ > >Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 09:39:53 -0500 > From: "W. Thomas Boussum" <euler@...> >Subject: Care and feeding of whistle controllers. > > My dad, who was employed for many years at the Reading Locomotive >Shop, purchased Haven Cab Co. in Schuylkill Haven, PA when he left the >Reading Railroad in 1948. Im 1950 he outfitted the cabs with two-way >radios to improve efficiency of operations. One of his particular >peeves was when a driver started the cab without turning the radio off. >It seems that this literally welded the vibrator points. > Pop was a radio enthusiast from the 20s. It was not long before he >began taking the vibrators apart to clean the points. If they were >badly burned he would use an ignition file to start off. Then he would >hit the points with gradually finer abrasive material until finally he >would just take a piece of writing paper that had a slightly abrasive >feel to it to polish the points. He got a lot of life from his >vibrators that way. > The same approach should work with the vibrators used by A.C. >Gilbert whistle controllers. I don't know this from experience, since I >had severaL locomotives with whistles, but none of them ever worked. My >cure for this was to put a whistling billboard under the layout that was >connected to an old Lionel transformer's variable voltage outputs. This >allowed variations that sounded like a real steam engine's whistle. > By the way, Terry Harrison had a list of S scale automobiles >available on the S scale digest. As I read through the list I noticed >two 1958 Plymouths. My dad had two of these as taxicabs. It seems that >the front ends lasted just about 10,000 miles, and then the ball joints >went out. So to be correct for S scale, the "three wheel" version >should work well. That is three wheels in the normal position and one >of the front wheels tucked neatly beneath the chassis. It's the user's >choice as to which wheel should be tucked under. > W. Thomas Boussum > >"If you want to bake an apple pie from scratch, you must start by >creating the universe." Carl Sagan in "Cosmos." >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15541	From: Robert E. Yablonski	Date: 11/21/2001
Subject: 12B

I need a red metal pointer for my 12B Transformer. The one I have has had the handle screw tab broken off. Anyone know where I can find one? Robert E. Yablonski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15542	From: Clay Buckage	Date: 11/21/2001
Subject: Fw: AC Gilbert

"From: Clay Buckage To: strains@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 8:47 PM Subject: AC Gilbert AC was born in Oregon 2/15/1884 Died in 1961 a wealth of info can be found at www.acghs.org happy thanksgiving play with your trains regard'S' Clay "Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?" "The Shadow knows" Clay Buckage Dave's Twacks & Twains Box 388 Tatamy, Pa. 18085 cbuckage@... clay@... www.davestnt.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15543	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/21/2001
Subject: Re: New file uploaded to S-Trains

The file didn't open for me. Said "document done" with a blank gray screen on my Netscape browser. S-Trains@yahoogroups.com wrote: > > Hello, > > This email message is a notification to let you know that > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the S-Trains > group. > > File : /PennWestern/pwpics.htm > Uploaded by : rhoffman@... > Description : PW Picture Tour > > You can access this file at the URL > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/PennWestern/pwpics.htm > > To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files > > Regards, > > rhoffman@... > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15544	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/21/2001
Subject: Re: Ebay caboose

I just recieved a parts loco from this seller. In my correspondence with her, I will inform her of the real condition of the caboose and it's relative non-value. Wish I'd noticed the seller ID before, probably could have had it thrown in the box with the loco! BTW, the loco was a good deal, and very well packed! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15545	From: Alex	Date: 11/21/2001
Subject: Train trek

Hi folks: My wife and I just returned from a 14-day train trek across Canada on a VIA Canadian National train. What a gas! The Classe Bleu D'Argent (Silver and Blue Classic) was pulled by a pair of GM F40PH-2 16-cylinder locos, and we had sixteen cars, including three dome cars and an observation car---all looked almost exactly like those on my AF layout. We departed from Toronto, stopped at Winnipeg for two nights, Edmonton for two, and Jasper for three, finally getting off at Vancouver. The views of the Rockies were really something else, and we went over some nifty trestles and through great tunnels too. The train crew were terrific (very friendly), the food was elegantly served and excellent, the ride quiet and soothing, and the 2-berth compartment very comfy, with the greatest goose down comforters you could ever snuggle under. The trip was also a neat social experience, as we got to know almost everyone aboard. Along the way I was quite amazed to see Canadian freights with as many as 300 cars in a consist. Some of these trains were three miles long (16,000 feet of rumbling squealing rolling stock). As you might imagine, there were countless other sights as well, and I'm sure a dyed-in-the-wool railfan would've gone nuts on this trip. It's good to be back, and I look at my old AF trains with renewed fondness. == Alex in Kennebunk, Maine .-.-.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15546	From: Alex	Date: 11/21/2001
Subject: FW: Train trek

Hi folks: My wife and I just returned from a 14-day train trek across Canada on a VIA Canadian National train. What a gas! The Classe Bleu D'Argent (Silver and Blue Classic) was pulled by a pair of GM F40PH-2 16-cylinder locos, and we had sixteen cars, including three dome cars and an observation car---all looked almost exactly like those on my AF layout. We departed from Toronto, stopped at Winnipeg for two nights, Edmonton for two, and Jasper for three, finally getting off at Vancouver. The views of the Rockies were really something else, and we went over some nifty trestles and through great tunnels too. The train crew were terrific (very friendly), the food was elegantly served and excellent, the ride quiet and soothing, and the 2-berth compartment very comfy, with the greatest goose down comforters you could ever snuggle under. The trip was also a neat social experience, as we got to know almost everyone aboard. Along the way I was quite amazed to see Canadian freights with as many as 300 cars in a consist. Some of these trains were three miles long (16,000 feet of rumbling squealing rolling stock). As you might imagine, there were countless other sights as well, and I'm sure a dyed-in-the-wool railfan would've gone nuts on this trip. It's good to be back, and I look at my old AF trains with renewed fondness. == Alex in Kennebunk, Maine .-.-.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15547	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 11/22/2001
Subject: Re: Dead Gauge

john marganski wrote: >I only have one SHS set-B&O >heavyweights. These, i consider to be cheesy-no >lights, all plastic, needed weight added to track >well, extremely poor quality trucks that were in >pieces in the container. I corrected all this, and >would not consider another SHS product unless i can be >assured that the quality has improved. John: Exactly what assurance will you need? That SHS only marketed those heavyweights, that were actually produced jointly with American Models? That SHS models are robust, perfectly painted, possibly the best rolling cars in any gauge with the highest quality control is already an established fact among us all. Don't you go to train meets? Have you never handled a PS-2? Everybody acknowledges the problems with early heavyweight production. We were all glad to get the cars and willing to make the modifications. (S was for Scratchbuilding, we're the guys with tools, remember?) However, no work is required to enjoy SHS products anymore. They are the tops, right out of the box. How's that for assurance? You've been waiting for this? You have got to get out more! Get down to your local hobby shop and buy an SHS car. Take it home and try it out. Then, if you can find the time between making bank withdrawals and going to train shows to try and catch up on all the SHS you missed, post a little something about how you have changed your mind and your errant ways! Happy Thanksgiving John and Everyone! Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15548	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 11/22/2001
Subject: Re: Dead Gauge (NOT!)

I just want to clarify that I agree that the future of S is not with American Flyer by made Lionel or anyone else. If S had to rely on Lionel alone, S would truly be dying. In a way it's a shame, because a quality Lionel/American Flyer presence would be good for S. Instead, Lionel/Flyer is a weight around the collective S gauge/scale neck. It may be time place American Flyer in the halls of history, acknowledge A.C. Gilbert's contribution to the creation of a marketable scale, that American Flyer trains were a wonderful toy in their day, and move on. I did a quickie tally of locomotives made available in to S gaugers over the last 20 years (not counting brass and various craftsman kits.) I don't think I forgot anything. American Models: FP7A/F7B, GP9, GP35, FA2/FB2, PA1/PB1, S12, GG1, F40PH, E8, SD60, USRA Heavy 4-6-2, Streamlined PRR K4 4-6-2. Imminent: NYC Empire State Express 4-6-4. (If memory serves me correctly the AM GP35, FA's and GG1 were "helped out" by SHS.) S Helper Service: SW9, SW1, F3A/F3B. Coming next year: F7A/F7B. On the drawing boards: E7(?), B O 2-8-0. Lionel/Flyer: PA1/PB1, GP7, so-called GP9, so-called GP20, EP5. Coming: More promises? It ought to be fairly obvious where the growth is coming from. I won't even go into rolling stock released from AM and SHS because the list is too lengthy. Suffice it to say that Lionel/Flyer falls way short in this department too, with the exception of the streamline diner and dome diner, everything else has been warmed over Flyer. Oh yeah, another brilliant idea was placing S gauge trucks under O-27 cars. Lionel's only new train tooling (thus far) was for a mediocre S clone of a mediocre O-27 caboose. Additionally, Lionel has done nothing to improve the running qualities of Flyer. Most folks seem to blame the electronic reverse units and can motors, (which are used by AM and SHS with great success) but every poor running Flyer locomotive in my collection can be attributed to bent shafts, off-center gears, poor tolerances, or plain old poor workmanship. And the best of my Lionel/Flyer doesn't even come close to the running qualities of my AM and SHS stuff. I will grant, however, that Lionel has done a fairly decent job of decorating. I do have some clear favorites here, as long as they're standing still. It all boils down to: Lionel/Flyer - Past and stagnation. AM SHS - Future and growth. Be seeing you... Rich G. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15549	From: TWesthelle@aol.com	Date: 11/22/2001
Subject: Re: Dead Gauge

I, like Rich G., want to restate my sentiments on S gauge and American Flyer/lionel. I am an AF Purist, I am wrapped into S gauge thru AF. The point I was making, probably inadequately, is that, lionel/lti, note lower case letters, is DEFINITELY not the future of S gauge. They have destroyed the quality of O gauge, and have done their very best to do the same for S gauge. They have made moves through self protective acts, and have used the valuable assets acquired from Gilbert in a totally self serving manor. The point I was making is this, lti holds and owns the patents, a certain amount of the tool/die equipment, and the name American Flyer. My hope would be that they would allow, or sell these assets to a company willing and able to provide a quality replication of AF/ Gilbert wears. As I stated earlier, I am an AF Purist, I enjoy and admire AF, and all the things produced by AC Gilbert and his company. To consider the advances he directed in the world of model railroading, is nothing short of stupendous, in the period of the 40's thru the 60's. I know that there are many other offerings in S gauge that are BEAUTIFUL, and I hope that these companies help maintain the S gauge, that we all have come to love and appreciate. Thanks for the forum to state ones view, I know I am thankful for this and many other things on this Thanksgiving Day. Tom Westhelle

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15550	From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com	Date: 11/22/2001
Subject: S-Helper in Hoby Shops.

I agree with CZ on almost every part of is e-mail except the part of go down to your local hobby shop and pick up an S-Helper car and enjoy. If you live in the Dayton Ohio area, or somewhere similar, where there are no hobby shops that will carry s-gauge, you have to order sight unseen over the net if you have a computer, through a catalog if you are fortunate enough to find one somewhere. Sorry, but manufacturers need to change the way they think on how they are marketing to the public. You want more people to see the scale, you need to get the product in front of the people. The only people reading train magazines, and going to the hobby shops if there are any in the area, are the ones already making the purchases. As long as those that have a hobby shop are the only ones allowed to be a dealer, this hobby isn't going to expand it's customer base. We need a way to get the product in front of the public. For example, those of us who take displays to shows, churches, civic groups and youth groups, need to have the product in hand to display and sell to these new people we are trying to recruit. It does absolutely no good to show off our displays and talk a product up, then tell someone they can't buy it without ordering it sight unseen over the Internet or via snail mail or phone. The manufactures should be using sales people to go the hobby shops and sell these products to the owners. Offer the hobby shops a starter set at cost to display in the shop. it's also funny how some e-mails to the manufactures get jumped on right away and others get ignored. It is all totally frustrating at times. I am just glad that I love this hobby so much to continue trying to promote it. I have a chance to start a local youth group at the local Baptist church into the model railroading hobby. I will probably go with HO gauge because it is available in the city of Dayton. If I was allowed to be a dealer, I could start them with S-Gauge.I could probably even sponsor the group in this way because I would Have the resources available. Oh well, everyone have a Happy Thanksgiving! Remember our troops and all the victims of terrorism. Until I ramble again, play with the trains. THE TRAINNUT CHRIS [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15551	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 11/22/2001
Subject: Turkey day

Happy Thanksgiving to all. God bless and keep you. Steve Blackburn, Sam Rapp. S-n'-S Trains..Boise, Idaho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15552	From: don652@webtv.net	Date: 11/22/2001
Subject: E-Bay

What section are AF trains under on e-bay? I went in under my old favorites and only found 25 pieces where there used to be around a thousand. Thanks. A Happy Thanksgiving to all. Don Bitting

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15553	From: Wayne and Alice Beachy	Date: 11/22/2001
Subject: Web Page updates

Hi Everyone, I have updated the Atlantic Coast S Gaugers' and my web pages. The Atlantic Coast S Gaugers recently hosted a benefit toy train show in Richmond last weekend. I have added a page with photos from that show. There will also be an article in the club newsletter about the show when I get it loaded sometime this weekend. To check it out go to http://sgauge.homestead.com/acsgindex.html and click on the show button. I have also put a page on my own homepage telling about a new operating accessory I am making. To check that out go to http://waynestrains.homestead.com/index.html and click on the Red Gulch Button. Have a great Thanksgiving. Wayne Beachy Atlantic Coast S Gaugers Virginia Central Division [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15554	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 11/22/2001
Subject: Re: S-Helper in Hobby Shops

If all else fails, your dealer can order S Helper Service products thru Walthers. Happy Thanksgiving to one and all. Rich G. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15555	From: Rick Evans	Date: 11/22/2001
Subject: Re: E-Bay

**(( What section are AF trains under on e-bay? I went in under my old favorites and only found 25 pieces where there used to be around a thousand.))** Go to Model RR, trains > S Scale > American Flyer.... That outta do it. Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15556	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 11/23/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1214

Transformer handle: Bob contact me off line, I have a method for repairing the 12b red pointer. I do have some spares. grdobbs@... Jerry 77-11644 ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15557	From: Mike Vana	Date: 11/23/2001
Subject: Trivial Fact

Lionel has been making S gauge trains for more years than Gilbert - 23 years now for Lionel (1979-2001), while Gilbert made them for 21 years (1946-1966, although a knowledgeable person said nothing was manufactured after 1963 or 1964). I wonder if Gilbert made more in a good year than Lionel made in all 23 years, and if some of the rarer Gilbert items were produced in greater quantities than any of Lionel's yearly offerings. Will the Lionel produced S gauge someday be worth as much as Gilbert? An important difference, though, is that Gilbert's primary interest was not to make trains for collectors, while it appears that Lionel's interest is mainly for collectors. Does anyone know of anybody who bought a Lionel/AF train just for their kid(s) to play with? It seems like more fun to collect Gilbert stuff just because it was not made with collectors (and thus, big dollars) in mind. For the record, I am basically a Gilbert collector and operator, with a few Lionel S gauge things. But I also have AM and SHS and other manufacturers locos and cars too. Mike Vana Omaha, NE.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15558	From: Tom Stolte	Date: 11/23/2001
Subject: If anyone here is having trouble getting to my web page

If anyone here is having trouble getting to my web page, try this url instead: http://members.tripod.com/mopac1/oddballs.htm Seems like right now the current one is not working for some reason or another. --- --- Tom Stolte - Oddballs Decals N, HO, S & O Scale Model Railroad Decals 26550 227th Street; McLouth, Kansas 66054 Phone: 913-727-6649 - oddballdecal@... Web site http://www.oddballsdecals.com/ Subscribe: OddballsDecals-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Missouri Pacific Photos Web Page: http://www.trainweb.org/mopac/ NMRA Member #121756 Subscribe: MOPAC-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15559	From: mark.p.baker@bt.com	Date: 11/23/2001
Subject: KING'S CROSS RAILWAY BOOK FAIR

A note to remind you that the Autumn 2001 King's Cross Railway Book Fair again, which will be held at Keen House, the headquarters of the Model Railway Club (http://www.themodelrailwayclub.org/index.html), at 4, Calshot Street, London, N1, tomorrow, Saturday 24th November 2001, between 11:00 and 15:30. Admission is just £1 and refreshments will be available all day from the Club's licensed bar. Further details are available from me direct and details of other similar events may be found on Tony Hillman's 'Railway Collectors Events Diary' web page at http://website.lineone.net/~tony.hillman/diary.html. Mark P. Baker.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15560	From: rodgers_carl@hotmail.com	Date: 11/23/2001
Subject: Information on viparts

Does anyone have an email adress or any other information on how to contact viparts, who lists items on ebay. A web site adress or anything. Also were can I find parts dealers or web sites for any parts dealers, don't like using mail to get information. Too slow. I need a good source of parts. thanx

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15561	From: John Foley	Date: 11/23/2001
Subject: Promotions

Hi Folks I am told that a company is selling promotional materials for S gauge. So I figured that I should remind you folks that the NASG provides these materials free of charge to clubs that do shows. At this time we are updating and printing more of our S buyer's guide and our brochure This Is S Gauge. John Foley

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15562	From: Rick Evans	Date: 11/23/2001
Subject: Hallmark 1947 Harley-Davidson Ornament.....

Made a trip to our local Longs Drugs, and found the 3rd in the Hallmark miniature Harley series. Many commented on the Harley side-car ornament last year. This year it is a 1947 Servi-Car. It was produced from 1932 to 1973 and says it was the longest running V-Twin model ever built by Harley.The three wheeler was used primarily for police department traffic patrol and automotive repair pickup and delivery. Colors are black and white with "POLICE" on the rear. I was using the side car Harley from last year as a police cycle,...this one works perfect for that! $7.95. Back to the BBQ turkey,...having ours a day late! Rick "craven some turkey" Evans. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15563	From: Walt Danylak	Date: 11/23/2001
Subject: Re: Information on viparts

--- In S-Trains@y..., rodgers_carl@h... wrote: Does anyone have an email adress or any other information on how to contact viparts, who lists items on ebay. A web site adress or anything. The fastest way is to go to one of his Ebay listing (eg. 1667044541) and ask the seller a question. This will send an email directly to him. He may not answer it, but it is a way to contact him. Walt

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15564	From: Don Thompson	Date: 11/23/2001
Subject: Re: Trivial Fact

Dear Mike, I think Lionel's years of AF can be summed up in the line, "Twenty three years of making American Flyer trains and not one section of track" Mike Vana wrote: > ...it appears that Lionel's interest is mainly for collectors. > > Mike Vana Omaha, NE. -- -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15565	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 11/24/2001
Subject: Re: Trivial Fact

Mike Vana comments: >Gilbert's primary interest >was not to make trains for collectors, while it appears >that Lionel's interest is mainly for collectors. Mike: Well, sort of. Lionel made all those sets you wished you had gotten as a kid (UP,NP,MP,SF,NH) and then made some you wished they made when you were a kid. (WP,SP,C&O, Erie and Freight SF, PA, NYC, IC, B&M, and a couple of others.) Then they got lost. Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15566	From: Nick and Becky Colleran	Date: 11/24/2001
Subject: Viparts Re: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1216

Matt & Violin Hazekamp 4 Caitlin Ct. Newton, NJ 07860 (973) 383 5772 viparts@... She was selling parts at York. I believe these are continuing to be made in Bulgaria. --- Nick ________________________________________________________________________ >________________________________________________________________________ > >Message: 8 > Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 01:43:57 -0000 > From: "Walt Danylak" <waltdanylak@...> >Subject: Re: Information on viparts > >--- In S-Trains@y..., rodgers_carl@h... wrote: >Does anyone have an email adress or any other information on how to >contact viparts, who lists items on ebay. A web site adress or >anything. > >The fastest way is to go to one of his Ebay listing (eg. 1667044541) >and ask the seller a question. This will send an email directly to >him. He may not answer it, but it is a way to contact him. > >Walt

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15567	From: Doug Peck	Date: 11/24/2001
Subject: Re: AF Parts

Our entire Parts Catalog is now ONLINE, and searchable by category. Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@... VISA --MC--DISCOVER--AMEX--PAYPAL Accepted. NEW ! View our entire AF Parts Catalog On-Line !!!!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15568	From: Bruce Papky	Date: 11/24/2001
Subject: 2001 AF Christmas car...

A few days ago, someone inquired about the availability of a Lionel/Flyer 2001 Christmas boxcar. My favourite hobby shop still has several in stock. The owner's name is Brent Boutiller, the store name is '2B in Trains', and the website is: www.2bintrains.on.ca Brent's e-mail address is: 2btrains@... Good luck. Bruce.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15569	From: rfgiardina@yahoo.com	Date: 11/24/2001
Subject: New Products by RFG

As promised, our New Products page has been updated with several new items. All of which are manufactured by RFG in the U.S.A. Our Web Site www.rfgco.com and our Online Catalog www.rfgco.com\catalog\ has also been updated. Several of the NEW items will also be at auction on Ebay at even lower starting prices. If you've never purchased from RFG before, check our feedback on Ebay. Secure online ordering or call, FAX or mail your orders.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15570	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 11/24/2001
Subject: Lionel Officer Interview

Here it is guys, Paul Nelson's interview with Lionel President/COO Dick Maddox and VP of Marketing John Brady: http://www.trains.com/Content/Dynamic/Articles/000/000/001/415sfgxt.asp Make of it what you will. Rich G. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15571	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 11/24/2001
Subject: In case you didn't know...

Many substribers of this list are not in the habit of dashing to read the latest MTH catalogs*, but some folks might wish to take a gander at pages 138 and 139 of 2002 Vol. 1. MTH is offering for future delivery reproductions of the Nos. 772, 774 and 769 (the checkerboard water, floodlight, and aircraft beacon towers, respectively). If the picture and new item number mean what they seem to indicate, MTH is also planning to offer a second repro of 'Gabe' as the scarce emerald green version. The towers are priced at $89.95 list and O'Gabe is $149.95 list, but street prices will be lower. The repros of the 785 and 787 are continued. This information may be of interest to some, and I do not recollect this having been posted here yet. Anyone care to place a bet on when the nifty (but unusual!) all-die cast near-scale MTH Premier O gauge PRR DD-1 on page 80-81 will be offered in AF-compatible S? :-(( Hope you all had a super Thanksgiving! RB * I have been congenitally predisposed to devour any train catalog since the age of three! :-))

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15572	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 11/24/2001
Subject: Re: Lionel Officer Interview

Amazing. They've moved to China (where AM and SHS production is), and they claim they would STILL have to charge "$800 to $900" for a locomotive! It's the same old "We'd-like-to-do-it-but-you-guys-won't-cough-up-the- $" nonsense. Where AF is concerned, nothing has changed at the big L. I say again: "When the PRODUCT warrants it..." Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15573	From: Don Thompson	Date: 11/25/2001
Subject: Re: MTH figures

Dear RB, In the last MTH catalog I saw some new figures, firemen, track crews, gas station employees, bus travelors, etc. Does anyone know if they have been released and are they S scale height like the sets #1 and #2 they made a few years back? I asked Mike Wolfe at the last Yorke and he did not seem to know. They were on page 152 and 153 of the 2001 vol 3 catalog. Don rbubeck327@... wrote: > Many substribers of this list are not in the habit of dashing to read the > latest MTH catalogs*, but some folks might wish to take a gander at pages 138 > and 139 of 2002 Vol. 1. MTH is offering for future delivery reproductions of > the Nos. 772, 774 and 769 (the checkerboard water, floodlight, and aircraft > beacon towers, respectively). If the picture and new item number mean what > they seem to indicate, MTH is also planning to offer a second repro of 'Gabe' > as the scarce emerald green version. The towers are priced at $89.95 list and > O'Gabe is $149.95 list, but street prices will be lower. The repros of the > 785 and 787 are continued. This information may be of interest to some, and I > do not recollect this having been posted here yet. > > Anyone care to place a bet on when the nifty (but unusual!) all-die cast > near-scale MTH Premier O gauge PRR DD-1 on page 80-81 will be offered in > AF-compatible S? :-(( > > Hope you all had a super Thanksgiving! > > RB -- -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15574	From: NotColdEnough@hotmail.com	Date: 11/25/2001
Subject: Speed up MTH coal loader

Back in October, a member submitted a message on how to replace the motor pulley to speed up the MTH coal loader. I took mine apart and found I could not easily remove the old pulley without cutting it off with a dremel tool. After some thought, I left the old pulley on, and constructed a new pulley over it. How - I built a new pulley made of flexible plastic tubing that was slid over the existing brass pulley. See photo "MTHcoalspeedup.jpg" in the files section. The pulley was made of two diameters of clear flexible plastic tubing that most hardware stores carry. The sizes I used were: 3/16 ID x 5/16 OD 5/16 ID x 7/16 OD The smaller size is cut to the length of the brass pulley and becomes the new driving surface for the belt. It did not need to be glued on as it had a friction fit over the existing pulley. The larger size was used to make flanges to create the sides of the pulley. I cut two peices about the thickness of a penny and used wathers goo to glue it on each end of the smaller tubing. The new pulley has reduced the lift time from 20 seconds to about 10 seconds. And I can always slip off the new pulley if I want to restore the loader back to original condition. John Gasal

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15575	From: IronHorse	Date: 11/25/2001
Subject: Re: Lionel Officer Interview

Well ---- Seems to me Lionel is using old-fashioned methods for tooling. Yes, NO? WHo does the tooling? "L" or someone else? If they hire someone else then that explains the expense. If they had computer run equipment for tooling it would cut costs way down. They could have the tooling done overseas. This should make a huge cut in the expense. Making a loco with only a few road names is why they did not sell well. If they had road names to represent different parts of the country they would have sold a lot more. Maybe those road names were no desirable for the majority of us. If AF was made in large volume and chain dept. stores carried them it would play a big part in reducing the price. The biggest mistake by Lionel is. There seems to be a TREMENDOUS lack of advertising in non-train magazines. Nothing on TV. The general public is unaware of model railroading altogether, because of a lack of adds. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15576	From: Tim Brown	Date: 11/25/2001
Subject: Re: Lionel Officer Interview

It's just yet another example of how sloppy Lionel is and why they have had tough times. They have been so mismanaged over the years they don't have a clue now. Just my humble opinion. I could be wrong. Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: "IronHorse" <cofa@...> Cc: "STrains" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2001 12:31 PM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Lionel Officer Interview > Well ---- Seems to me Lionel is using old-fashioned methods for tooling. Yes, NO? > WHo does the tooling? "L" or someone else? If they hire someone else then that > explains > the expense. If they had computer run equipment for tooling it would cut costs way > down. > They could have the tooling done overseas. This should make a huge cut in the > expense. > > Making a loco with only a few road names is why they did not sell well. If they had > road names to represent different parts of the country they would have sold a lot > more. > Maybe those road names were no desirable for the majority of us. > > If AF was made in large volume and chain dept. stores carried them it would play a > big part in > reducing the price. > > The biggest mistake by Lionel is. There seems to be a TREMENDOUS lack of > advertising in non-train magazines. Nothing on TV. The general public is unaware of > > model railroading altogether, because of a lack of adds. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15577	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/25/2001
Subject: Re: Lionel Officer Interview

I found three interesting items in the interview. 1) The Hudson Project--was deemed too expensive for production. DUH! This shows the lack of AF knowledge these guys have. Of course the Hudson was too expensive--far too many old AF ones around to buy! Now if they'd chosen the 21004 I think there would have been far more interest. Also, they are trying to amortize the tooling/production costs over ONE engine. Hey guys, AF used the same parts for multiple engines, making the production more affordable. IF you were sincere about producing AF, you would do the same! 2) They are amazed at the other producers in S and what they are manufacturing. Hmm, too hot in the Kitchen for big L?? Don & Ron are worrying them! 3) Lack of non-railfan advertising. Big L says that it is too expensive to advertise in the mainstream media (TV, major mags, etc.). Hmm, chicken or the egg here: No advertising, products don't sell: products don't sell, no budget for advertising. What happened to their big leveraged funding?? Wasn't that for bringing them "up to speed" with other toy marketers?? They are fascinated with our two-rail system, and admit it is the right size to bring youngsters into railroading; fitting not only the hands, but the house space too. I think they admitted that S is superior to O! (OK, I won't start that childhood argument again; but my trains are better than your trains! ;-) S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15578	From: Bente Velapoldi	Date: 11/25/2001
Subject: MTH

Does MTH have a website? I have tried all sorts of combinations and haven't found anything. Tx. Rance

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15579	From: Carl Tuveson	Date: 11/25/2001
Subject: Re: MTH

Try.. www.railking.com Carl -----Original Message----- From: Bente Velapoldi [mailto:velapoldi@...] Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2001 2:49 PM To: S-trains yahoo; s-scale yahoo Subject: [S-Trains] MTH Does MTH have a website? I have tried all sorts of combinations and haven't found anything. Tx. Rance S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15580	From: Carl Tuveson	Date: 11/25/2001
Subject: Re: Speed up MTH coal loader

John, This would be a good project for somebody with access to a CNC mill to spit out a few hundred retro-fit pulleys to fit over the original similarly to what you have designed. They could be held in place with a small allen set screw. Carl -----Original Message----- From: NotColdEnough@... [mailto:NotColdEnough@...] Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2001 11:21 AM To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [S-Trains] Speed up MTH coal loader Back in October, a member submitted a message on how to replace the motor pulley to speed up the MTH coal loader. I took mine apart and found I could not easily remove the old pulley without cutting it off with a dremel tool. After some thought, I left the old pulley on, and constructed a new pulley over it. How - I built a new pulley made of flexible plastic tubing that was slid over the existing brass pulley. See photo "MTHcoalspeedup.jpg" in the files section. The pulley was made of two diameters of clear flexible plastic tubing that most hardware stores carry. The sizes I used were: 3/16 ID x 5/16 OD 5/16 ID x 7/16 OD The smaller size is cut to the length of the brass pulley and becomes the new driving surface for the belt. It did not need to be glued on as it had a friction fit over the existing pulley. The larger size was used to make flanges to create the sides of the pulley. I cut two peices about the thickness of a penny and used wathers goo to glue it on each end of the smaller tubing. The new pulley has reduced the lift time from 20 seconds to about 10 seconds. And I can always slip off the new pulley if I want to restore the loader back to original condition. John Gasal S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15581	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 11/25/2001
Subject: Re: MTH figures

In a message dated 11/25/01 8:32:28 AM, robin@... writes: << In the last MTH catalog I saw some new figures, firemen, track crews, gas station employees, bus travelors, etc. Does anyone know if they have been released and are they S scale height like the sets #1 and #2 they made a few years back? I asked Mike Wolfe at the last Yorke and he did not seem to know. They were on page 152 and 153 of the 2001 vol 3 catalog. Don >> There is a shipping schedule option in the menu of the new MTH web site that functions very well -- hopefully the information on it is correct. The 12-piece railroad figure set was delivered in November and the other sets are due in 12/15/01. I cannot state their scale since I have not had them in my hands, but judging from the die cast vehicles (1:48) that they are displayed against it appears that they may be in between the two scales. Hope this helps. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15582	From: kite1@swbell.net	Date: 11/25/2001
Subject: MTH COAL LOADER / Lionel Interview

MTH is doing a great job with repos of American Flyer accessories? Since they are much more progressive than Lionel, could Mike be talked into production of a new Flyer engine or cars??? I like the ideas to adapt the MTH Coal Loader to run faster. Perhaps MTH would listen and provide such an adapter to make it run faster?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15583	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 11/25/2001
Subject: attachments

Please DO NOT attach attachments to S-trains posts. If you have a photo or document to share with the list, please post it to the S-trains files section. If you are unsure about how to do this, check with Paul. Thanks. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15584	From: Dennis Conway	Date: 11/25/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] MTH

Try: http://www.mth-railking.com/ BTW ... MTH stands for Mike's Train House. Dennis Conway Los Angeles From: Bente Velapoldi To: S-trains yahoo ; s-scale yahoo Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2001 11:49 AM Subject: [S-Scale] MTH Does MTH have a website? I have tried all sorts of combinations and haven't found anything. Tx. Rance

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15585	From: Carl Tuveson	Date: 11/25/2001
Subject: A new page on Carl's web site. Scenic backdrop.

Here's a page posted on my web site showing how I did a scenic backdrop on my layout. I had to deal with outside corners and this shows one way to deal with them. http://list.wsbt.com/af/backdrop/backdrop.htm Now on to the ballasting.. Anybody have any ideas for source for "S" gauge ballast? Carl

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15586	From: Lance McCold	Date: 11/25/2001
Subject: Diaphragms for Superliner cars

I recently bought a set used of American Models superliner cars. Some of them had diaphragms on the ends. They are made of black rubber with metal ribs. Does anyone know who made them and how they are supposed to be installed? They seem too thick for the cars to couple correctly--especially when there is one on each car. I could take them off, but they seem like a nice touch. I also thought of removing the metal ribs. The rubber looks like it would hold its shape with out them and it surely would compress better. I wonder if they were designed for some other passenger cars. Thanks in advance for any information, tips or suggestions. Lance

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15587	From: johnbraker@webtv.net	Date: 11/25/2001
Subject: RECOMMENDATIONS NEEDED

We have an 8' X 12' layout, with old style AF track.4 separate ovals.Powered by a 12b and an 18b.4 sets of 720A switches connecting loops to each other, with fiber pins in between. We experience sluggish power transfer to locomotives which run great on the bench with a 40watt transformer. We would like to test the track to see how much power is being lost and where.We have tried doing this using our search light car but that tells us we are getting power to all rails. Does anyone recommend any tester to measure continuous power? If so what type of tester would you recommend? Will a multimeter do the trick? If so how do we test for delivery from transformer to track? We use 690 clip-on track terminals with fairly heavy wire. Second problem...21158 Docksider. The top of the armature has several 5 sided copper wire clips.Do these effect the gears sychronizing on the other end? Gears on ours pop into neutral and spin freely. They seem to have alot of play almost 3/16".....this seems to be an awful lot of play.Is it possible to add a reverse unit to this loco?? If so what style and how would you wire it up? I am interested in ANY and ALL advise and info on the Docksider that anyone has to offer. Third question....the 293 has a coal pusher on the tender.Is it possible to purchase coal pushers and place on other Atlantic locomotives? Thanks in advance for any and all suggestions and help. John and Susan Braker

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15588	From: Rick Evans	Date: 11/25/2001
Subject: PLASTICVILLE- Vintage Woolworth Ad

Found this over at the Plasticville site,...I believe in the lower left hand side of the text in the ad, it says somethin' about "O" gauge, but isn't that "FLYER" track in the left hand corner of the pic?? ;-) Rick. check it out.... http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1667335753

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15589	From: alex sibbald	Date: 11/26/2001
Subject: 312ac

Hi, I have a 312ac steamer that is going progressivly slower over time. It can barely make its way around the track now. The motor is getting louder as well. I have lubricated the items accessable without taking anything apart. Am I missing a lube point or is this an engine problem? The track has power and the wheels are clean. Thanks alot, Alex

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15590	From: TED R LARSON	Date: 11/26/2001
Subject: Vehicles

I have added several pages of information on S scale vehicles to the MHRR website. Enjoy. Note that my information is incomplete. I welcome any addtional information. http://www.trainweb.org/mhrr/mhrreast/vehicles.html Ted Larson Most paved roads lead to trouble; Dirt Roads more likely lead to a fishing creek or a swimming hole. ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15591	From: Hannon	Date: 11/26/2001
Subject: Re: 312AC Problems

Alex: Here are some other items to check. I'm assuming the axle bushings are ok. 1. Noisy Motor: The armature bearings/bushings in the chassis and the brush plate may be worn to the point that the armature is flopping around in there instead of spinning smoothly. These bearings can be replaced. If let go too long, the condition can damage the shaft on the armature, requiring that it be replaced. 2. Progressively Slower: Have you checked the commutator face to see if it is gummed up with brush carbon and oil? Once this happens, progressively more current is shunted across the commutator face, instead of going through the coils. If let go too long, the carbon/oil combination can eat into the insulation between the commutator segments and permanently short them out. The 312AC is a terrific runner when it's bearings/bushings are in spec and there is no crud embedded in the slits between the commutator bars. I hate to hear when one is going "down the tubes", which is why I am replying to your post. Bob Hannon http://www.trainrefs.com > Message: 17 > Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 00:09:57 -0800 > From: alex sibbald <innotron@...> > Subject: 312ac > > Hi, > I have a 312ac steamer that is going progressivly slower over time. It > can barely make its way around the track now. The motor is getting > louder as well. I have lubricated the items accessable without taking > anything apart. Am I missing a lube point or is this an engine problem? > The track has power and the wheels are clean. > Thanks alot, > Alex >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15592	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/26/2001
Subject: Re: 312ac

Alex, Turn your engine over and look at where the commutator and the brushes meet. Is the commutator hitting the ends of the brush tubes? If it hasn't gone on long, you can add a shim washer to the commutator to provide clearance. Clean the brush tubes and the commutator face, and if it's been hitting, look for a burr on the end of the brush tube. A jeweler's file can remove it, as can a carefully applied exacto knife--but it ruins the blade for paper cutting! Let us know what you find S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15593	From: Ted Larson	Date: 11/26/2001
Subject: Freight Car Paint Schemes

http://www.union.rpi.edu/railroad/images/rolling-stock/Paint/Paint-A.html This site is GREAT! ===== Ted Larson __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15594	From: davedesian@clarkus.com	Date: 11/26/2001
Subject: Vol III

Dear Steve: Vol III is great. Thank you for a job well done, David

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15595	From: Doug Peck	Date: 11/26/2001
Subject: Re: MTH figures

<<In the last MTH catalog I saw some new figures, firemen, track crews, gas station employees, bus travelors, etc. Does anyone know if they have been released and are they S scale height like the sets #1 and #2 they made a few years back? I asked Mike Wolfe at the last Yorke and he did not seem to know. They were on page 152 and 153 of the 2001 vol 3 catalog. >> The only ones delivered so far are the unpainted figures. None of the others have arrived yet. Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15596	From: Craig	Date: 11/26/2001
Subject: New, but not to S

I'm in Rolla, MO and have a fairly extensive, very old set of American Flyer. Most of the set was new around 1950-1. I have the Reading Lines 4-4-2 w/New Haven baggage/mail, boxcar, and red caboose that came with original set, plus have the Silver Bullet and matching Pullmans, maroon Caboose and brakeman that jumps back and forth on the back as the train is moving. Operatinf headlights and smoke on both engines, choo-choo pistons, plus 14 other pieces of rolling stock and enough track for a 5x9 foot oval with inside switched figure 8, have two 90 degree intersections and the old two rail, 3 tie tracks with the rubber roadbed still fitted on each piece. It's been properly stored, but I have not even run the operating hand car in more than 30 years. I wish to get into my trains again. Recently bought some G-Scale stuff and have been looking at On30, trying to stay with conventional 2 rail modeling without ending up across the pond and it's not been an easy search and to read about MTH and what they call fairly priced, my God are all the engines now in the $1000 price range ? How about joining the old 1940's/50's track with todays S track, is that even possible so I can possibly incorporate the old stuff with the new and get it all going again. I've been away from this for too long and I have to admit I'm out of touch with the jargon. I don't necessarily have to have the old Flyer running, but it's an "inner" argument that I'm having with myself on which scale I should pursue, the G is too big, I can do it, but need 40 acres to turn this rig around and On30 seems like it's just too small. I feel sort of like Goldilocks, porridge too hot and porridge to cold, isn't there one that's just right ? I don't really want to get into another kit-bashing and funky, proto scale stuff here. I just like to set 'em on the track and run 'em, maybe get detailed in the landscape, out in them thar hills. Is there such a thing as RTR S scale that's truly reasonably priced ? Craig Manning Rolla, MO

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15597	From: Douglass Allen	Date: 11/26/2001
Subject: ballast

Perfect s-ballast is shingle gravel, available from contractor supply houses like "ABC Supply". It comes in various colors. The disadvantage is you have to buy 50 lbs. at a time for around $25. Compared to the little packages at hobby shops of the same stuff for around $ 7.50/lb, it's a pretty good deal. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15598	From: Don Thompson	Date: 11/26/2001
Subject: Re: MTH figures

Dear Doug, Did you ever get any of these? If you did, how tall are they? Don Doug Peck wrote: > The only ones delivered so far are the unpainted figures. None of the others > have arrived yet. > -- -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15599	From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com	Date: 11/26/2001
Subject: Re: New, but not to S

Hi Craig, My porridge is just right! It's Scale, and it does have some nice starter sets with engine cars and track and transformers that are truly compatible with your American Flyer. The neat thing is, you can get a new set and run right away, then work on getting your old flyer trains to operate again. Once they are running again, you can run them together. Unless you have link couplers that can be converted to knuckle couplers. You obviously have a computer, so check out American Models and my Favorite, S-Helper Service web sites. <A HREF="http://www.showcaseline.com/">Click here: American Flyer Compatible S gauge model trains from the Showcase Line</A> or www.showcaseline .com and <A HREF="http://www.americanmodels.com/">Click here: American Flyer Compatible S gauge model trains from American Models.</A> WWW. Americanmodels.com. My website is <A HREF="http://www.trainweb.org/cbtrainnut/">Click here: COLLECTING AND RUNNING S-GAUGE TRAINS</A> or www.trainweb.org/cbtrainnut The S-Helper track will also mate up very nicely with the old Flyer Track too. Hope this helps. THE TRAINNUT CHRIS [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15600	From: Lance McCold	Date: 11/26/2001
Subject: Diaphragms for Superliner cars

I got no response before, so I will try again: I recently bought a set used of American Models superliner cars. Some of them had diaphragms on the ends. They are made of black rubber with metal ribs. Does anyone know who made them and how they are supposed to be installed? They seem too thick for the cars to couple correctly--especially when there is one on each car. I could take them off, but they seem like a nice touch. I also thought of removing the metal ribs. The rubber looks like it would hold its shape without them and it surely would compress better. I wonder if they were designed for some other passenger cars. Thanks in advance for any information, tips or suggestions. Lance

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15601	From: David	Date: 11/26/2001
Subject: Re: New, but not to S

Craig, definitely get all those old Flyers cleaned up and running and start from there. You have an excellent base to start with in "THE" perfect size.... "S"!!! Add on with other original equipment or delve into the excellent products offered by American Models, S-Helper, MTH, Port Lines, and R F Gardinia. Tons of options here to go in any direction you want in "S".

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15602	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 11/26/2001
Subject: Re: New, but not to S

Craig, Congratulations!!! You have the BEST size right now. Stick with the Flyer and the new goodies from American Models and S Helper Service and Des Plaines and BTS and Putt and others, you'll be glad you did. Check out S-Guagian magazine and Classic Toy Trains, and look over "S scale/American Flyer" on Ebay. Go easy until you have a feel for the market if buying "collectible" Flyer. The people on the S-trains list are most helpful and patient, don't be afraid to ask. Jim Lyle [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15603	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 11/26/2001
Subject: Re: Diaphragms for Superliner cars

Lance, I believe that Scenery Unlimited offered at on time, diaphragms similar to what you described. A call to Don Heimberger could easily confirm that. Not aware if Don is on-line in the S-trains group or not. 703-366-7763 Jim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15604	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 11/26/2001
Subject: Correction

Scenery Unlimited number is 708-366-7763 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15605	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/26/2001
Subject: Re: ballast

Try parakeet grit from a pet store. Won't break you. Color of stuff I bought was a little yellowish so I mixed some black pigment in my ballast cement to tone it down. Douglass Allen wrote: > > Perfect s-ballast is shingle gravel, available from contractor supply houses like "ABC Supply". It comes in various colors. The disadvantage is you have to buy 50 lbs. at a time for around $25. Compared to the little packages at hobby shops of the same stuff for around $ 7.50/lb, it's a pretty good deal. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15606	From: dlehnhoff@hotmail.com	Date: 11/26/2001
Subject: Coal Loader pulley

Did the plastic hose fix. Works fine, though my ability to cut even slices off the end was challenged! Dwight Lehnhoff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15607	From: Tom Young	Date: 11/26/2001
Subject: Re: A new page on Carl's web site. Scenic backdrop.

Carl Tuveson wrote: > Here's a page posted on my web site showing how I did a scenic backdrop on > my layout. I had to deal with outside corners and this shows one way to deal > with them. > > http://list.wsbt.com/af/backdrop/backdrop.htm > Great job on your backdrop Carl, and your layout as a whole. I'm impressed as I've also been building one for the last 18 months. What did you use to paint the mountains. Did you paint the trees with a sponge? Very realistic, reminds me of what I see when I look out the window in my place in upstate New York. I'm also at the stage where I'm ready for backdrops so I would appreciate your sharing how you did the mountains. Tom Young

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15608	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/26/2001
Subject: Re: New, but not to S

Craig, Your old stuff is good, so clean it and run it! The new stuff is good too (uh oh, here's the die-hard AF fan telling you the new stuff is good too). I hate to admit it, but we took both SHS F's and AM's E's out of the boxs & on the table, and ran them 8+ hours straight at two train shows. I did allow myself a bit of time after a few hours to oil the axles, as instructed. There's lots of RTR in S now, the perfect scale is just getting better! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15609	From: milayman@aol.com	Date: 11/26/2001
Subject: Looking for solutions (ideas)

I finally acquired a 742 at the RMD Christmas show that works. On the layout is a 741 shed. When I installed the shed, I cut out a piece of plywood to allow for rubber road bed and to fit inside the shed to serve as a stabilizer. The 741 shed is like new and I would like to maintain the like new condition. The plywood is secured to the layout surface. Now I need a bumper in the shed. What have you done to provide a bumper in the shed? The shed sets at a corner of the layout behind a manual switch. I usually allow a guest to open the switch to the track leading to the shed. Since I am at the control panel controlling the movement, I usually slow or stop the hand car and ask the guest to play bumper. I try to make the layout guest friendly. Some are not exited about being a bumper. So, also, I would like to add a temporary and/or mobile bumper to the track a distance from the shed to get a demonstration of back and forth action of the reversible hand car. What are your suggestions for a temporary and/or mobile bumper? Marvin.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15610	From: Al Paolozzi	Date: 11/26/2001
Subject: Re: Looking for solutions (ideas)

I once used a large block of soft foam, the type that is often used for packing material. It worked great. I had put it in the shed and it worked better than a bumper. AL Paolozzi ----- Original Message ----- From: <milayman@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 8:15 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Looking for solutions (ideas) > I finally acquired a 742 at the RMD Christmas show that works. On the layout > is a 741 shed. When I installed the shed, I cut out a piece of plywood to > allow for rubber road bed and to fit inside the shed to serve as a > stabilizer. The 741 shed is like new and I would like to maintain the like > new condition. The plywood is secured to the layout surface. Now I need a > bumper in the shed. What have you done to provide a bumper in the shed? The > shed sets at a corner of the layout behind a manual switch. I usually allow > a guest to open the switch to the track leading to the shed. Since I am at > the control panel controlling the movement, I usually slow or stop the hand > car and ask the guest to play bumper. I try to make the layout guest > friendly. Some are not exited about being a bumper. So, also, I would like to > add a temporary and/or mobile bumper to the track a distance from the shed to > get a demonstration of back and forth action of the reversible hand car. > What are your suggestions for a temporary and/or mobile bumper? Marvin. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15611	From: alex sibbald	Date: 11/27/2001
Subject: 312ac solutions

Hi , I would like to thank all who replied to my sad tale of the slowing locomotive. I have one more question. Do any of the service manuals for sale document any of these service procedures, maybe even offer pictures? I purchased a service manual cd from ebay and all it offers is some exploded views and some partlists. Thanks alot again, Alex

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15612	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/27/2001
Subject: Re: 312ac solutions

Alex, I did an article on this in the Dispatch a few issues ago. Since I don't have my issues handy, can't tell you which one, but I'm fairly sure it is still available. If you can't find one, maybe someone has the issue handy and can send him a photocopy of the article? S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15613	From: Craig E Manning	Date: 11/27/2001
Subject: Fwd: Re: [S-Trains] New, but not to S

I've checked out the sites, got a couple questions about the differences between "scale" and "hi-rail", AC and DC current, cuz I don't know what my old AF is ? I don't have the transformer. At one of the sites you needed to choose one or the other on ordering and also the current seemed to be important to sound or DCC ??? I liked the track I saw with showcaseline, but liked the sets and diesels better at the AM's site. And... can I run the diesels with my old AF track ? I don't know what the radius on curves is right at the moment, or if that is even an issue ? I grew up in Corning NY and am familiar with Erie Lackawanna and the Chemung River and Chemung Valley, but now live where the BNSF is mainline and used to be St Louis & San Francisco (SLSF) Frisco, which I'm not seeing much on that roadname, but that's not a big deal. When I lived in the Washington DC area (VA suburbs-Vienna), the roads were the B&O and C&O. Do people here run blue-board for a base to the train layouts ? Craig Manning cmanning@... plumloco@... Rolla, MO --- In S-Trains@y..., Cbtrainnut1@a... wrote: Hi Craig, My porridge is just right! It's Scale, and it does have some nice starter sets with engine cars and track and transformers that are truly compatible with your American Flyer. The neat thing is, you can get a new set and run right away, then work on getting your old flyer trains to operate again. Once they are running again, you can run them together. Unless you have link couplers that can be converted to knuckle couplers. You obviously have a computer, so check out American Models and my Favorite, S-Helper Service web sites. http://www.showcaseline.com/ American Flyer Compatible S gauge http://www.americanmodels.com/ American Flyer Compatible S gauge My website is : http://www.trainweb.org/cbtrainnut/ COLLECTING AND RUNNING S-GAUGE TRAINS The S-Helper track will also mate up very nicely with the old Flyer Track too. Hope this helps. THE TRAINNUT CHRIS

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15614	From: Tom Stolte	Date: 11/27/2001
Subject: New decals from Oddballs Decals - N, HO, S and O scales

666 86' autorack (3-82) Rack painted boxcar red, flat painted TT yellow. White, black and yellow graphics. Set will letter one car. Walthers kit. 667 86' autorack (3-82) Rack painted boxcar red, flat painted TT yellow. White, black and yellow graphics. Set will letter one car. Walthers kit. 668 station names, all eras. Black 9 inch tall lettering. 669 station names, all eras. Black 9 inch tall lettering. 670 station names, all eras. Black 9 inch tall lettering. 671 station names, all eras. Black 9 inch tall lettering. 672 station names, all eras. Black 9 inch tall lettering. 673 ADMX 50' tankcar (8-91) (repainted 9-01) Tank painted black. White, green and blue graphics. Set will letter one car. Atlas tank car kit. The N scale sets will letter 2 or 3 cars. S & O scale will letter 1 car. All the above decals refer to HO scale kits on the market. These will also work for other scales. Just pick a car of your choice in the other scales. Prefix numbers for N scale 60-. HO scale 87-. S scale 64-. O scale 48-. N & HO scale retail price $3.25. S & O scale retail price $6.50. These should be in your favorite hobby shop within the next month or so. If ordering direct, please include $1.75 for p&h. Up to date catalog N, HO, S & O scale, $6.00, plus $1.75 for p&h. You buy this catalog once, then every 3 months or so, send me a LSSAE for updates. Fits in a 3 ring binder. --- --- Tom Stolte - Oddballs Decals N, HO, S & O Scale Model Railroad Decals 26550 227th Street; McLouth, Kansas 66054 Phone: 913-727-6649 - oddballdecal@... Web site http://www.oddballsdecals.com/ Subscribe: OddballsDecals-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Missouri Pacific Photos Web Page: http://www.trainweb.org/mopac/ NMRA Member #121756 Subscribe: MOPAC-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15615	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 11/27/2001
Subject: S-Video

In a message dated 11/27/2001 4:05:45 AM Mountain Standard Time, S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes: > Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 16:08:59 -0500 > From: davedesian@... > Subject: Vol. III > > > Dear Steve: > > Vol. III is great. Thank you for a job well done, David Thanks David, We are glad you enjoyed it. This is an opportune time to update the progress. Once again I underestimated how may copies of what that you guys and gals would want and have received 13 orders for the 3 volume set and a total of 86 for Vol. III. Since we only had 10 each printed of Vols. II and III it creates a small dilemma. We are going to have to buy another 50 tapes and try to work out the number logistics. We'll do that, but it again leaves us in that position of having to do an odd number of tapes. I guess we'll take our chances that they will be wanted. Thanks to you all for the continued support. If anyone out there will be attending train shows or visiting some S-Gauge layouts between now and March or April and would like to provide video for an upcoming volume, please contact us. We need to give you some tips on procedures that work the best. This would be a good time for some "Clubs" to show off their layouts. We get orders form Canada, Europe and Australia as well as all over the US. We will also travel to layouts and clubs and shows if they are west of the Rockies and within 1000 miles of Boise. I have been a non flyer since 1959, (Plane crash survivor) so that puts a kink in getting back east* where the majority of layout and clubs are. *(Translation...East of the Rockies). When I retire in 2004 I am going to travel all over the country by vehicle looking up S-Gaugers. That should carry us through volume XXVII.......{:>).......Steve & Sam [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15616	From: Bill Clark	Date: 11/27/2001
Subject: Pictures of Bob Hogan's Rairoad

The Bristol club's October meeting was at Bob Hogan's house, where we got to see and admire his fantastic 3' narrow gauge railroad. I've posted some pictures on the Bristol Club's website, its worth a look: http://www.trainweb.org/bristol-s-gauge/MembersLayouts/BobHogan/BobHogan.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15617	From: Tom Stolte	Date: 11/27/2001
Subject: Fw: New decals from Oddballs Decals - N, HO, S and O scales - CORR

666 MP 86' autorack (3-82) Rack painted boxcar red, flat painted TT yellow. White, black and yellow graphics. Set will letter one car. Walthers kit. 667 MP 86' autorack (3-82) Rack painted boxcar red, flat painted TT yellow. White, black and yellow graphics. Set will letter one car. Walthers kit. 668 MP station names, all eras. Black 9 inch tall lettering. 669 MP station names, all eras. Black 9 inch tall lettering. 670 MP station names, all eras. Black 9 inch tall lettering. 671 MP station names, all eras. Black 9 inch tall lettering. 672 MP station names, all eras. Black 9 inch tall lettering. 673 ADMX 50' tankcar (8-91) (repainted 9-01) Tank painted black. White, green and blue graphics. Set will letter one car. Atlas tank car kit. The N scale sets will letter 2 or 3 cars. S & O scale will letter 1 car. All the above decals refer to HO scale kits on the market. These will also work for other scales. Just pick a car of your choice in the other scales. Prefix numbers for N scale 60-. HO scale 87-. S scale 64-. O scale 48-. N & HO scale retail price $3.25. S & O scale retail price $6.50. These should be in your favorite hobby shop within the next month or so. If ordering direct, please include $1.75 for p&h. Up to date catalog N, HO, S & O scale, $6.00, plus $1.75 for p&h. You buy this catalog once, then every 3 months or so, send me a LSSAE for updates. Fits in a 3 ring binder. --- --- Tom Stolte - Oddballs Decals N, HO, S & O Scale Model Railroad Decals 26550 227th Street; McLouth, Kansas 66054 Phone: 913-727-6649 - oddballdecal@... Web site http://www.oddballsdecals.com/ Subscribe: OddballsDecals-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Missouri Pacific Photos Web Page: http://www.trainweb.org/mopac/ NMRA Member #121756 Subscribe: MOPAC-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15618	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 11/27/2001
Subject: Ballast, gravel, and grit

- Greeting`S' - Friends (and I consider each of you in this list my friend), please do not put anything down around the track that you would not want to have in the locomotive or car mechanism later. Unless, of course, it comes with a lifetime guarantee of staying in place. What would I want in my locomotive? Only things which are softer than the steel, brass, bronze, and plastic I find in axles, bushings, and gears. That woould be good quality lubricants. What would I not want in the mechanisms? Stuff harder than plastic, brass, bronze, even steel. That would be crushed real rock (gravel), carborundum, even loose steel filings. Dust found in most every building is bad enough. All this means I vote for plastic ballast with some assurance that it is glue-able. Cheer`S' Rhett George

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15619	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 11/27/2001
Subject: locomotive running (or not)

- Greeting`S' - A comment for Alex, Craig, and others. At the risk of being known as Ammeter George, I still promote the use of AC ammeters to tell you what is going on with a locomotive that has a decent running voltage applied such as 13 to 15 VAC. One of the maintenance books tells me that each loco should go around a specified loop in a certain number of seconds while drawing no more than 1.9 A or 2.5 A or that value appropriate for the loco. To get a good evaluation of a performance difficulty, you will need to know this current. A loco which is slowing with current diminishing means that resistance is increasing in the circuit. It may be reverser contact fingers getting hot and making poorer contact. It may be brushes which are gummed and are not pressing well on the commutator. If the loco is slowing with increasing current, motor windings with damaged insulation could be heating and forming short circuits Knowing the loco current helps a great deal when getting one running after it has sat for a long time. If you are pulling the trains out and hoping for good operation, an ammeter will tell you how close you are to success. If acquiring an ammeter, be sure that it will read AC amps. Bring, say, the yellow wire from the transformer to one terminal on the ammeter, another yellow wire from the ammeter to the track connector. Black wire from transformer to track. The ammeter should have at least 5 or 6 A capacity, not more than 10 A. A cold, two-motor Rocket with four lighted cars will draw maybe 4A, even 4.5 A. When the oil and grease warm up, the current drops. A limber Atlantic may run light on no more than 1.4 A. Hope this helps. Cheer`S' Rhett George

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15620	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 11/27/2001
Subject: Re: NASG DISPATCH

dav21248@... wrote: > I was wondering if anyone has received their September 2001 #5 > Dispatch issue yet? Please let me know.I have not received > mine yet. > Thanks, > Dave Loucks > dav21248@... > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ I have Vol. XXIV, October, with the ATK 928 (toaster?), and the GG-1 on the cover. What was on the cover of Vol. 4??--my issue is not in the stack here, but may not be missing yet either. DJE-KCMO

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15621	From: John Foley	Date: 11/27/2001
Subject: Re: NASG DISPATCH

Hi Dave I think you are talking about our Oct 2001 issue. I will put one in the mail for you. Cottonwood, Ca? John Foley At 02:52 PM 11/27/01 -0600, ironhors@... wrote: >dav21248@... wrote: > > > I was wondering if anyone has received their September 2001 #5 > > Dispatch issue yet? Please let me know.I have not received > > mine yet. > > Thanks, > > Dave Loucks > > dav21248@... > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >I have Vol. XXIV, October, with the ATK 928 (toaster?), and the GG-1 on >the cover. >What was on the cover of Vol. 4??--my issue is not in the stack here, but >may not be >missing yet either. DJE-KCMO

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15622	From: Doug Peck	Date: 11/27/2001
Subject: Re: "How to....."manual for AF

Alex--- The only "How To....." manual for AF was Tom Barker's Repair Manual, which is now long out of print. However, it has been re-issued on CD-ROM, and you can always load and print out individual chapters. It also includes a VIDEO of how to do various repairs. We have it in stock if you're interested. $20. Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@... <<<< Do any of the service manuals for sale document any of these service procedures, maybe even offer pictures?>>>>

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15623	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/27/2001
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [S-Trains] New, but not to S

Craig E Manning wrote: > > I've checked out the sites, got a couple questions about the differences > between "scale" and "hi-rail", AC and DC current, cuz I don't know what > my old AF is ? I don't have the transformer. Your old Flyer stuff ran on AC from a transformer. Most of the new stuff runs that way also, though for some new engines you need to specify when you order. SHS locomotives will run AC out of the box. AM will run on AC if you order the hirail version. The advantage to AC with AM is their sound systems work with AC. Your best buy for a power source is a used Flyer transformer. In fact AM sells them on thir website. >At one of the sites you needed > to choose one or the other on ordering and also the current seemed to be > important to sound or DCC ??? You don't need to worry about DCC for starting off. AC will enable sound on AM locos that are equipped with it as mentioned above. If you can build your own sound button(s) you can save $50. If you think you want to I have a plan somewhere that used diodes from Radio Shack. > > I liked the track I saw with showcaseline, but liked the sets and diesels > better at the AM's site. > > And... can I run the diesels with my old AF track ? I don't know what the > radius on curves is right at the moment, or if that is even an issue ? Gilbert track is about 19 1/2" radius and all SHS and AM hirail locomotives will run on it. > > I grew up in Corning NY and am familiar with Erie Lackawanna and the > Chemung > River and Chemung Valley, I also grew up in Elmira and my railroad is named the " Chemung Valley". Strong Pennsy flavor 'cause the Elmira Branch of the PRR ran from Williamsport PA to Sodus Bay on Lake Ontario. > but now live where the BNSF is mainline and used > to be St Louis & San Francisco (SLSF) Frisco, which I'm not seeing much on > that roadname, but that's not a big deal. When I lived in the Washington DC > area (VA suburbs-Vienna), the roads were the B&O and C&O. > > Do people here run blue-board for a base to the train layouts ? > I use blueboard because it's carveable without making a mess. > Craig Manning > cmanning@... > plumloco@... > Rolla, MO > > --- In S-Trains@y..., Cbtrainnut1@a... wrote: > > Hi Craig, > > My porridge is just right! It's Scale, and it does have some nice > starter sets with engine cars and track and transformers that are > truly compatible with your American Flyer. > > The neat thing is, you can get a new set and run right away, then > work on getting your old flyer trains to operate again. Once they > are running again, you can run them together. Unless you have link > couplers that can be converted to knuckle couplers. > > You obviously have a computer, so check out American Models and my > Favorite, S-Helper Service web sites. > > http://www.showcaseline.com/ > American Flyer Compatible S gauge > > http://www.americanmodels.com/ > American Flyer Compatible S gauge > > My website is : > > http://www.trainweb.org/cbtrainnut/ > COLLECTING AND RUNNING S-GAUGE TRAINS > > The S-Helper track will also mate up very nicely with the old Flyer > Track too. Hope this helps. > > THE TRAINNUT > CHRIS > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15624	From: Lance McCold	Date: 11/27/2001
Subject: Report on diaphragms for AM superliner cars

Thanks to all who offered suggestions. I contacted both Scenery Unlimited and American Models. Neither had suggestions about their use or modification The consensus is that they are SU diaphragms. The best suggestion I received was to mount only one per car and arrange the cars so there was only one between each pair of cars. This group great for giving quick advice! Thanks, Lance

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15625	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 11/27/2001
Subject: Re: New, but not to S

David Dewey said: >The new stuff is good too. No, no kidding, he really did! Let's listen to it again: >The new stuff is good too. Hey Duck . . . you OK out there? Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15626	From: Steven P. Salaway	Date: 11/27/2001
Subject: Track Screws

Need advice as to what size and length screws for k-line S track with rubber road bed. Hate to use nails. Smallest screws I can find from catalog are brass (not black) #4 round head, 1 inch in length. Will do the job, however, pilot holes for the ties and painting the heads add a few steps. Thanks, Steve S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15627	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 11/27/2001
Subject: Re: ballast

At York, in the White Hall, I met a seller who had created his own ballast. It was a dust-free mineral ballast that was crushed to get the right edges and contour. It is chemically neutral and stable and comes in a variety of colors to duplicate many roads. It does not absorb moisture nor change size and shape. It can even be custom made for your road. I believe it was in 5 pound bags. He makes it in several scales including S. This was the ONLY ballast I have ever seen that looked exactly right. The man offers shipping deals as well ($4 for the first bag, additional bags free. 50 bags ship completely free.) His York show special; if you ordered 5 bags, you got a sixth free, and an eleventh free with 10. This whole project is a sideline to his actual mineral related business and uses tools and resources from that business. I was impressed. Check it out for yourself. Contact: Jim Sinkowski 800-976-6991 860-445-8086 860-445-5577 Fax His company is Dur-A-flex, Hobby Division I get no percentage, as usual. We've got to figure a way to change that! (Tell him I sent you. Maybe I can nick a free bag.) Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15628	From: gino restivo	Date: 11/27/2001
Subject: Re: Track Screws

hi all , for my af track i used pan head sheet metal screws 3/4 or 1 " length with road bed used 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 length , pilot holes thru tie's into base are needed , find them at your local hardware / home center ps. i have not found them with phillips head , still looking .... have fun , gsr -----Original Message----- From: Steven P. Salaway <salaway@...> To: S-Trains <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Date: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 9:49 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Track Screws >Need advice as to what size and length screws for k-line S track with >rubber road bed. Hate to use nails. Smallest screws I can find from catalog >are brass (not black) #4 round head, 1 inch in length. Will do the job, >however, pilot holes for the ties and painting the heads add a few steps. >Thanks, > >Steve S. > > > > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > ---------------------------------------------------- Sign Up for NetZero Platinum Today Only $9.95 per month! http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15629	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Re: New, but not to S

I knew that would get me in trouble! Oh well. . . . I ain't abandoning my AF yet! Got too much of it! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15630	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: diaphragms

Lance: I seem to recall something about this problem in the old S Gauge Herald. There were rubber diaphragms available in S in the '70's -- still have a few. The suggestion was made to remove (cut off) one fold of each diaphragm. Don't know if this applies to the ones you have. If there are end plates they would presumably be reattached to the shortened diaphragms, and perhaps modified in some way. Phragm, phragm, phragm. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15631	From: David	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Re: Track Screws

AHHH! Why are you drilling holes in the ties, especially when using roadbed? There are two proper ways to attach track to your base/platform without ruining it by drilling holes in the ties. With plain track or with track with roadbed use 3/4 inch wire nails. They will just about fit thru the small holes on each end of the ties punched there by the factory. A light tap and it goes right through the factory holes and into the base material. For track with roadbed you can use 1/2 inch wire nails, and place one on each side of the track directly through the roadbed at all track joints, and one in the middle of the section thru the roadbed edge as needed. This method will prevent the sound from traveling thru the nails and into a hard base board material making a lot of racket which is typically why we use roadbed in the first place as to avoid the racket. Both of these methods makes secure attachment of trackage to your base, and avoids ruining the track by drilling holes in the ties.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15632	From: LEAHY RUTH A	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Mel's Diner

Have any of you tried converting the 1/43rd cars on the MTH Mel's Diner? How procedure did you use? Any advice would be appreciated. Also, does anyone know whether Earl Beegle still makes "S" scale people? Need a baseball team for my grandson's lay-out. Thanks! Mike Leahy

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15633	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1220

Chris, THE TRAINNUT, wrote this reply to a fellow with some basic questions: The neat thing is, you can get a new set and run right away, then work on getting your old flyer trains to operate again. Once they are running again, you can run them together. Unless you have link couplers that can be converted to knuckle couplers. Instead of converting to knuckle couplers, I took a cheap AF box car that was link coupler and installed one knuckle coupler. It's a transition car behind my 312 steamer. Works great, is easy and you only have to alter the authenticity of 1 car (or several if necessary). You also don't really notice that the box car has 2 different couplers, unless you look closely. Peter Ervin Cumberland, MD [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15634	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1219

CRAIG: S gage is the only American Scale 3/16" = 1'- 0". "O" = is 1/48 or maybe 1/43 or something, HO 35mm between the rails 1'- 0" = 87' ?, try "G" @ 1:22.5 =1/32 or 3/8? S gage will also complement On3 with track 1/8" wider. TRACK BALLAST I use "STP Oil Absorbent" clay $2.00 per 10 lb bag Jerry 77-11644 ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15635	From: mark.p.baker@bt.com	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1219

On 28/11/01 Jerry Dobbs wrote: S gage is the only American Scale 3/16" = 1'- 0". What does "only American Scale" mean? Mark.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15636	From: finerty, paul	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1220

Craig E. Manning wrote: >> I liked the track I saw with showcaseline, but liked the sets and diesels >> better at the AM's site. >> >> And... can I run the diesels with my old AF track ? I don't know what the >> radius on curves is right at the moment, or if that is even an issue ? Chuck Smith wrote: >Gilbert track is about 19 1/2" radius and all SHS and AM hirail >locomotives will run on it. I have the American Models PA set of diesels (Southern Pacific) and they can't handle the curves of my Flyer track. The length of the six wheel trucks themselves seems to be the issue. I bought a bunch of AM track, replaced one of my Flyer loops, and everything works fine. I have to run them on the loop with AM track exclusively though, but it's no big deal. They are gorgeous engines and run great. Paul Finerty

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15637	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Re: New, but not to S

Craig: You are already getting great answers to your questions (see Chuck Smith's post) about AC-DC and DCC. I just wanted to add a point or two. Most older 2-rail Gilbert Flyer locos can run on AC or DC. They have universal motors. If you choose to go DC, you need not abandon your Flyer for new trains. In fact (and I'm not sure just what engines you already have) the only exceptions to the Flyer universal motor are two steamers made around 1947-48 that were DC only. The 332 Northern "Challenger" and the 342 0-8-0 switcher were equipped with this so-called "Electronic Propulsion" which was Gilbertese for DC. The experiment died and Gilbert went back to the universal motor. Gilbert transformers were always AC and a special rectifier device, to be inserted between transformer and track, came with the sets to run the DC engines. In short, no matter which American Flyer stuff you have, it will ALL run on DC. The reason for using AC is that traditional sound devices (horns & whistles) use DC pulses modulated over AC. If you run DC, the horns blow constantly and must be disabled. Also, in the newer equipment, the fancy sound systems work only in AC, and also use something like a DC pulse to activate bells and horns. DC versions come without sound. The reason for using DC is that reversing can be accomplished by switching polarity of the track rather than relying on an on-board reversing unit. (This will not affect your old Flyer, which will still have to cycle it's mechanical reverse unit to achieve reverse, even on DC). Another reason would be that DC versions of new trains are cheaper to buy since you don't get a bunch of the on board electronics. I agree, by the way, with your comment about some of the very sexy train sets that AM makes. With all those long passenger cars, they are reminiscent of the expensive Flyer sets from the back of the catalog, while SHS's sets seem more like Flyer's front-of-book switch engine cheap sets. Nothing could be farther from the truth, however. While the AM stuff is indeed wonderful, those SHS sets are dynamite. The engines can really pull, the cars are extremely free rolling and the details are terrific. These sets come complete with track and a transformer. What's more, SHS engines are pre-configured to accept DCC. DCC should be thought of as a third type of electricity, somewhere between AC and DC. It has a wave, but that wave is manipulated to perform tasks. This will probably be beyond what you want right now. I imagine you'd just like to get some choo-choos set up around the tree. But don't let DCC out of your sights. Keep it stored away in a corner of your brain and always look toward the possibility that one day, you will want to use it. It will give you control parameters that you cannot yet conceive. My short answer for you will agree with Chuck. For now, stick with AC (provided, of course, that your old Flyer engines are not one of those "Electronic Propulsion" models I mentioned). Buy new stuff that is "Flyer Compatible". That will give you high-rail wheels that will run on Flyer track and knuckle couplers that will mate with the Flyer type. There are tons of old Flyer transformers out there that have been re-worked and are in top condition. They are not expensive. Buy the bigger wattage models so you have some room for expansion and so you can run passenger trains that are all lit up. If you get a dual (two-handled) unit, it will run two trains on two loops at once. You can mix track. Adapters are sold to combine Flyer and SHS track. Don't forget to get some accessories. Right now, hobby shops are clearancing K-Line bubbling water towers, aircraft beacons and some other items. I got mine for $14 each! Make two loops. Run lots of trains. Draw your kids away from the X-box. Have fun! Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15638	From: Craig E Manning	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1220

Just a quick question...how come when I hit reply for a message that comes from the S-Trains list, addressed To: S-Trains..., my reply generates back TO: the person who wrote the email and not to the YahooGroup ? Is this a setting on the groups configuration ? It seems to me that sometimes the way a person replies, they might want the whole group to read it, and as a mailing list that is the intended purpose of them; having to re-address a reply is REALLY unusual. If members do not want lots of email each day then the options are there to read messages ONLY at the Group Website. In looking at the archives the average number of messages here is about 14 per day, that is not a high number. I belong to a group called On30Conspiracy and at their list it's not uncommon to receive 50 or 60 messages a day, sometimes after 2 and 1/2 days away I will have 180 messages from them at my inbox. If the settings at S-Trains are such to alleviate the number of messages to the list, you should try a couple of the mailing lists that have 1600 or 1700 members. I've seen 300 messages in one day before, less than 20 is not even close to a problem. On the AM site I think I saw where the 3 unit diesels and a couple of the 2 unit locos said in the description where it needed 21 inch radius, but the others there was no indication, one way or the other, which told me maybe it didn't matter. Craig Manning Rolla, MO "finerty, paul" To: "'S-Trains@yahoogroups.com'" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> <finerty_paul cc: @...> Subject: RE: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1220 11/28/01 08:40 AM Craig E. Manning wrote: >> I liked the track I saw with showcaseline, but liked the sets and diesels >> better at the AM's site. >> >> And... can I run the diesels with my old AF track ? I don't know what the >> radius on curves is right at the moment, or if that is even an issue ? Chuck Smith wrote: >Gilbert track is about 19 1/2" radius and all SHS and AM hirail >locomotives will run on it. I have the American Models PA set of diesels (Southern Pacific) and they can't handle the curves of my Flyer track. The length of the six wheel trucks themselves seems to be the issue. I bought a bunch of AM track, replaced one of my Flyer loops, and everything works fine. I have to run them on the loop with AM track exclusively though, but it's no big deal. They are gorgeous engines and run great. Paul Finerty S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15639	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Re: New, but not to S

In a message dated 11/28/01 9:58:25 AM Eastern Standard Time, busyboy@... writes: Good comments. A few helpful "tweaks": << In fact (and I'm not sure just what engines you already have) the only exceptions to the Flyer universal motor are two steamers made around 1947-48 that were DC only. The 332 Northern "Challenger" and the 342 0-8-0 switcher were equipped with this so-called "Electronic Propulsion" which was Gilbertese for DC. >> DC Northerns and 0-8-0s were built from 1947 into 1950 (e.g., 334DC). BTW, the use of DC is worthwhile considering because several DC versions of these desirable engines are often found in nicer condition for less money, and they do run very well. <<The reason for using AC is that traditional sound devices (horns & whistles) use DC pulses modulated over AC.>> One also has to have a small AC source (such as a small Gilbert transformer) and be a bit clever about using the stock yard and the Guilford station, if one goes DC. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15640	From: Scott Brown	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Re: Mel's Diner

Mike, I just ordered 2 baseball teams from Doug Peck at Portlines Hobbies. They should be here any day. I will let you know how they look. Also take a look at Kramer Products. http://www.kramerproducts.com/baseball.htm These are made for 0/027 but I've seen them at my local train store and they are very close to S scale. They are a bit pricey though. I am building a ball park on my layout for my 11 y/o (and me too) as we have become Baltimore Orioles fans this year. Good luck. Scott Brown Atlantic Coast S Gaugers Washington & Old Dominion Division VA/DC/MD ----- Original Message ----- From: "LEAHY RUTH A" <ruth.leahy@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 8:18 AM Subject: [S-Trains] Mel's Diner > Have any of you tried converting the 1/43rd cars on the MTH Mel's Diner? > How procedure did you use? Any advice would be appreciated. > > Also, does anyone know whether Earl Beegle still makes "S" scale people? > Need a baseball team for my grandson's lay-out. > > Thanks! > > Mike Leahy > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15641	From: roy inman	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Holiday trains

Hi all, Just FYI to the list at large: Our local S club got a nice little gig setting up a 1950's Flyer train set under the tree for the holidays at a local historical society museum. The house was built in 1954 as an "Electric Home of the Year" by KCP&L, the local electric utility. I saw a photo of the house with the aluminum tree and presents underneath in a local paper last year, and on a whim, called the museum inquiring if they would like to have an operating, vintage toy train running under the tree for this year. They kept my name and number, called me this year, and Paul Stevens, Fred Hauser and myself set up a simple oval with a Pacific and five chrome passenger cars. The tour guide was instructed in the operation; she runs the train only when a group comes through the house. It will be a nice little holiday PR for our club and S in general, and the Johnson County Museum of History is delighted. Just passing it along for anyone who might be interested in doing a similar wherever you live. The circumstances have to be just right, of course, but it might one small way to spread the word. If anyone is interested in particulars, contact me off list. rinphoto@.... Cheers to all. Roy Inman

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15642	From: Scott Holm	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: AM GG-1 and Flyer track

> Chuck Smith wrote: > >Gilbert track is about 19 1/2" radius and all SHS and AM hirail > >locomotives will run on it. My AM GG-1 derails on Flyer radius track; Is there anything that can be done to prevent this? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15643	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1219

I believe he was referring to the inch-foot instead of metric measurement basis--but, he could have been referring to the origination of S by C-D Hobbies (although I understand there may be a British predecessor?). S' David D. Hmm, a new angle, "The American Scale!" Hmm. . . .Although methinks S is universally the best scale, world-wide!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15644	From: Craig E Manning	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Re: Holiday trains

Another FYI, similarly, I had an idea about 2 weeks ago to see about getting an entry into the Rolla Christmas Parade, figuring that I was way too late to get in, but found that I could enter right up until early this week. I've created a 6-1/2 x 6-1/2 foot plywood layout with two Walmart plastic battery operated "G" similar, scale trains, installed on top of the bed rails of my Dodge Dakota pick-up. One large 6 foot oval and a smaller 5 foot circle in the middle, will have two trains, Santa Express and a Gold Rush loco/mining train running with snow covering the plywood and Christmas presents piled high where the trains are running through tunnels created within the presents. Slap a few Red Ribbons and Bows on my deep blue truck and we'll be in Section 5 Saturday Morning, throwing candy, advertizing the Rolla Train Collectors, and having a blast. We spent about 2 hours assembling plywood and making it strong enough, last Saturday morning and working a few minutes each night in the garage with the snow, track, and wrapped presents and the float/entry is just about ready to roll. Haven't spent more than $50 on the whole deal. I already had the trains and track, one sheet of plywood and this makes for a real contribution to community involvement and introduces our new RR Club to the City in a big way. Using xerox and PC's we made a couple of signs for the doors. It was way easier than I thought; I highly recommend, if you are thinking of something like it. Craig Manning Rolla, MO roy inman <rinphoto@eart To: S-trains <S-trains@yahoogroups.com> hlink.net> cc: Subject: [S-Trains] Holiday trains 11/28/01 09:45 AM Hi all, Just FYI to the list at large: Our local S club got a nice little gig setting up a 1950's Flyer train set under the tree for the holidays at a local historical society museum. The house was built in 1954 as an "Electric Home of the Year" by KCP&L, the local electric utility. I saw a photo of the house with the aluminum tree and presents underneath in a local paper last year, and on a whim, called the museum inquiring if they would like to have an operating, vintage toy train running under the tree for this year. They kept my name and number, called me this year, and Paul Stevens, Fred Hauser and myself set up a simple oval with a Pacific and five chrome passenger cars. The tour guide was instructed in the operation; she runs the train only when a group comes through the house. It will be a nice little holiday PR for our club and S in general, and the Johnson County Museum of History is delighted. Just passing it along for anyone who might be interested in doing a similar wherever you live. The circumstances have to be just right, of course, but it might one small way to spread the word. If anyone is interested in particulars, contact me off list. rinphoto@.... Cheers to all. Roy Inman S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15645	From: sigma@ecn.ab.ca	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1219

C-D was the first commercial producer of S-scale models, but the first operating locomotive in 1/64 scale was built 15 years earlier by the English modeller, Charles Wynne. Development in the U,K, was cut off by World War II. England's S Scale Model Railway Society is the oldest S group in the world. Joe Pereira email: sigma@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15646	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Ammeter Usage

In a message dated 11/28/2001 4:33:54 AM Mountain Standard Time, S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes: > ) > From: "Rhett T. George" <rtg@...> > Subject: locomotive running (or not) > > - Greeting`S' - > > A comment for Alex, Craig, and others. At the risk of being known as > Ammeter George, I still promote the use of AC ammeters to tell you > what is going on with a locomotive that has a decent running voltage > applied such as 13 to 15 VAC. Amen! Rhett. I have used one for so long that I can't remember when I didn't. I also use a volt meter in line. The ammeter helps too, when you have a trackage problem because you will see it spike when a bad or dirty section of track rears it's ugly head. They are available at electronic dealerships everywhere for $20 or less. As Rhett stated, be sure to get one that says AC on it, unless of course you are running DC. Steve Blackburn S-n'-S Trains Boise, Idaho [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15647	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Dewey's "too much" Flyer

In a message dated 11/28/2001 4:33:54 AM Mountain Standard Time, S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes: > From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> > Subject: Re: Re: New, but not to S > > I knew that would get me in trouble! Oh well. . . . I ain't abandoning my > AF yet! Got too much of it! > S' > David D. > > Too much of it?? Better get rid of most of it. > You're the guy that told me you were suffering from "Flyer overload" when you were visiting here in September. Probably "Flyer shock" rather than overload...{8>) Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15648	From: Euell Johnson	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Re: Lionel Officer Interview

There appears to be some misstatements by our "L friends". Attached is an Excel spread sheet with some cost developements. The essence of the work is to develop a Break Even point. How many units must I sell before I can recoop my expenses. By using modern CAD and CNC equipment, as well as doing it overseas, the one time project developement costs can be minimized. I attended an AUTOCAD demonstration a few years ago where an the item was designed and the program would generate the code for the CNC computer. Thus, there is no machine programming time. The spreadsheet analysis that I have done makes no allowance for selling expenses or overhead. These would have to be added back to get a truer BEP. Also I have grouped all rolling stock. No doubt a Flat Car or a Gondola would have a different cost than a Box or Stock Car. The actual costs may vary some, but not by much. This is probably the type of analysis that SHS and AM use. AM and SHS do NOT have the business superstructure with its high costs that must be allocated as does L. If they can do it at these numbers, then why can't L? Did you say lack of commitment by management to get into the market? I thought so. EJ ----- Original Message ----- From: " Rich Gajnak" <rgajnak@...> To: "STrains" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2001 12:00 AM Subject: [S-Trains] Lionel Officer Interview > > Here it is guys, Paul Nelson's interview with > Lionel President/COO Dick Maddox and VP of Marketing John Brady: > > > > http://www.trains.com/Content/Dynamic/Articles/000/000/001/415sfgxt.asp > > > > Make of it what you will. > > Rich G. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15649	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Re: Track Screws

I've got track fastened as David describes and it lasts apparently forever. David wrote: > > AHHH! Why are you drilling holes in the ties, especially when using > roadbed? There are two proper ways to attach track to your > base/platform without ruining it by drilling holes in the ties. With > plain track or with track with roadbed use 3/4 inch wire nails. They > will just about fit thru the small holes on each end of the ties > punched there by the factory. A light tap and it goes right through > the factory holes and into the base material. For track with roadbed > you can use 1/2 inch wire nails, and place one on each side of the > track directly through the roadbed at all track joints, and one in > the middle of the section thru the roadbed edge as needed. This > method will prevent the sound from traveling thru the nails and into > a hard base board material making a lot of racket which is typically > why we use roadbed in the first place as to avoid the racket. Both of > these methods makes secure attachment of trackage to your base, and > avoids ruining the track by drilling holes in the ties. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15650	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1220

I have a pair of AM PA's that runs on my Flyer track with no Problems. Does yours have the extra cutout in the pilot for the hirail couplers? "finerty, paul" wrote: > > Craig E. Manning wrote: > > >> I liked the track I saw with showcaseline, but liked the sets and diesels > >> better at the AM's site. > >> > >> And... can I run the diesels with my old AF track ? I don't know what the > >> radius on curves is right at the moment, or if that is even an issue ? > > Chuck Smith wrote: > > >Gilbert track is about 19 1/2" radius and all SHS and AM hirail > >locomotives will run on it. > > I have the American Models PA set of diesels (Southern Pacific) and they > can't handle the curves of my Flyer track. The length of the six wheel > trucks themselves seems to be the issue. I bought a bunch of AM track, > replaced one of my Flyer loops, and everything works fine. I have to run > them on the loop with AM track exclusively though, but it's no big deal. > They are gorgeous engines and run great. > > Paul Finerty > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15651	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Re: AM GG-1 and Flyer track

My GG1 operates on Flyer track. (assuming you don't mean pikemaster) Check to be sure track is really level and no kinks in alignment. Next make sure power trucks are free of each other in forward and reverse. I had a similar problem with traversing several switches in my terminal throat and found it liked facing one direction better than the other. However, as I recall, after weaing the trackwork alignment and releveling it the problem went away. I admit it's a tight fit, but I routinely run mine without derailments. Scott Holm wrote: > > > Chuck Smith wrote: > > >Gilbert track is about 19 1/2" radius and all SHS and AM hirail > > >locomotives will run on it. > > My AM GG-1 derails on Flyer radius track; Is there anything that can be > done to prevent this? > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. > http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15652	From: Rick Evans	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1220

"Craig E Manning" wrote: > > Just a quick question...how come when I hit reply for a message that > comes from the S-Trains list, addressed To: S-Trains..., my reply > generates back TO: the person who wrote the email and not to the > YahooGroup ? Is this a setting on the groups configuration ? It seems > to me that sometimes the way a person replies, they might want the > whole group to read it, and as a mailing list that is the intended > purpose of them; having to re-address a reply is REALLY unusual. Seems to me there was a good reason for this,...but not sure I remember!! When you send a post (email), to S-Trains, it goes to the site (where I read all the posts), and it also goes out to everyone individualy, if they have their preference set that way. So by hitting reply, it goes to the oringinal poster, I believe. You shouldn't have to re-address the reply, just send a CC to S- trains. Paul, someone,...explain it better then I just did!! Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15653	From: Craig E Manning	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1220

It's a listserv, Yahoo is listserv software. The idea is people register their email address and the email posting from an individual goes to the "S-Trains" address at Yahoo, this is like a giant mirror, it bounces the incoming message out to everyone who has registered. Replies go the exact reverse of this, the reply goes back using the same path and everyone sees it. That is how it works. Changing the settings to cut down on one word replies or the classic "me too" post, is not only frustrating to someone who does not know this, it hinders discussion. People in the course of discussion read something that another member posted in THEIR reply and it sparks another small piece of information that other members will benefit from and that's why they call these things we have here discussion threads. Sometimes they fray a little, but that's all part of it. The idea of listserves was to have a medium where everyone could be a member and members would start a thread and replies would keep it going, and the whole time there would be only one address everyone used. What I'm doing is simply after I click reply, I'm backspacing the individuals address on the To: line and substituting the S-Trains address, pretty easy really. The reply all option I've been seeing here, is why some members get messages twice. They originated the email, the reply all sends another's reply back to the listserv and sends one privately off list, also. So that one member sees the reply twice. Have you ever had a message come in twice ? Craig Manning Rolla "Rick Evans" <comic@digital To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com putty.com> cc: Subject: [S-Trains] Re: Digest Number 1220 11/28/01 12:48 PM "Craig E Manning" wrote: > > Just a quick question...how come when I hit reply for a message that > comes from the S-Trains list, addressed To: S-Trains..., my reply > generates back TO: the person who wrote the email and not to the > YahooGroup ? Is this a setting on the groups configuration ? It seems > to me that sometimes the way a person replies, they might want the > whole group to read it, and as a mailing list that is the intended > purpose of them; having to re-address a reply is REALLY unusual. Seems to me there was a good reason for this,...but not sure I remember!! When you send a post (email), to S-Trains, it goes to the site (where I read all the posts), and it also goes out to everyone individualy, if they have their preference set that way. So by hitting reply, it goes to the oringinal poster, I believe. You shouldn't have to re-address the reply, just send a CC to S- trains. Paul, someone,...explain it better then I just did!! Rick. S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15654	From: finerty, paul	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1220

Hi Chuck, I don't know off the top of my head, if I have time I'll check tonight. Might the problem be that I have an A-B-A? I'll try them individually and as a pair with the B unit removed and see if any of the different combinations run through the AF curves OK..... Paul -----Original Message----- From: Chuck Smith [mailto:cesmith@...] Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 12:28 PM To: finerty, paul Cc: 'S-Trains@yahoogroups.com' Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1220 I have a pair of AM PA's that runs on my Flyer track with no Problems. Does yours have the extra cutout in the pilot for the hirail couplers? "finerty, paul" wrote: > > Craig E. Manning wrote: > > >> I liked the track I saw with showcaseline, but liked the sets and diesels > >> better at the AM's site. > >> > >> And... can I run the diesels with my old AF track ? I don't know what the > >> radius on curves is right at the moment, or if that is even an issue ? > > Chuck Smith wrote: > > >Gilbert track is about 19 1/2" radius and all SHS and AM hirail > >locomotives will run on it. > > I have the American Models PA set of diesels (Southern Pacific) and they > can't handle the curves of my Flyer track. The length of the six wheel > trucks themselves seems to be the issue. I bought a bunch of AM track, > replaced one of my Flyer loops, and everything works fine. I have to run > them on the loop with AM track exclusively though, but it's no big deal. > They are gorgeous engines and run great. > > Paul Finerty

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15655	From: Craig E Manning	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Reply messages...

I don't have a problem with reply messages, or even with duplicate emails. My IP has a 5 meg limit on email capacity and here at work I think there is no limit. I delete almost as soon as I read, unless there is one or two that are informative for me then I archive them locally. They all are archived at the webpage for our group, anyhoo. It just doesn't make much sense to me to configure the group the way it has been, but I guess whatever floats your boat.... or runs your train, as it would apply here. On the use of nails for roadbed, wouldn't an electric stapler with small clip of brads work better than using a hammer to drive them ? All it takes is a little practice to see where the brad ejects from the head of the electric stapler and one light squeeze...BAM. Done. Craig Rolla, MO

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15656	From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Reply button And Brad Nailer

It just doesn't make much sense to me to configure the group the way it has been....wouldn't an electric stapler with small clip of brads work better than using a hammer to drive them ? Craig, Your starting to sould a little lazy.LOL! Kind of like adding a 3rd rail so you don't have to figure out how to wire a DPDT switch for a reverse loop! THE TRAINNUT CHRIS [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15657	From: Craig E Manning	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Re: Reply button And Brad Nailer

Lazy ? Who me ? A 3rd rail ? Shirley not. The nailer saves the day, er uh, rail; with a hammer, one whack in the nic-nac paddy and you're done. That rail will never be the same. I hammer in the morning, I hammer in the evening, all over this land, but my aim doesn't improve. A nailer is all ya need and a reply (of course) to all, even if YOU have to read this twice. :-) Craig Rolla, MO Craig, Your starting to sound a little lazy. LOL! Kind of like adding a 3rd rail so you don't have to figure out how to wire a DPDT switch for a reverse loop! THE TRAINNUT CHRIS

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15658	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Re: AM GG-1 and Flyer track

Mine works fine. Try going slower! Are you sure you have the hi-rail wheels? Roger Petrella Franktown, CO Scott Holm wrote: > > Chuck Smith wrote: > > >Gilbert track is about 19 1/2" radius and all SHS and AM hirail > > >locomotives will run on it. > > My AM GG-1 derails on Flyer radius track; Is there anything that can be > done to prevent this? > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. > http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15659	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Re: diaphragms

jarcho@... wrote: > Lance: I seem to recall something about this problem in the old S Gauge > Herald. There were rubber diaphragms available in S in the '70's -- still > have a few. The suggestion was made to remove (cut off) one fold of each > diaphragm. Don't know if this applies to the ones you have. If there are > end plates they would presumably be reattached to the shortened diaphragms, > and perhaps modified in some way. > > Phragm, phragm, phragm. > > Tom Jarcho > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ I presume we are discussing the old MHP diaphragms, which Heimburger has taken over sometime back--is there any new production of these, or is Heimburger just selling from the original manufacture stock--consider the prices when you answer that. My I had a crunch problem also, but it seemed to solve it self by just bending down those "locking tabs" so the two faceplates can freely slide back and forth across each other--as long as they don't bypass on a very sharp curve, of course.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15660	From: Ted Walton	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Track Screws

I'm confused. The subject heading is "track screws" but you are talking about nails. Maybe my problem is that I'm not sure what a " wire nail" is. Is there something special about a wire nail vs. a nail? Second problem I'm having with the discussion is that the idea is to preserve the original integrative of the track ( and of course hold the track in place). But what happens if (when) you need to take the track or a section up. When I have tried to remove nailed track, I do end up doing some damage. OK, maybe that's just clumsy me. My thoughts are that the use of a proper size screw would work just as well in holding the track down, and when its time to take the track up, the screw can be backed out without any damage to the track. Yes, it will take time to screw several hundred feet of track down, but you get this time back when you need to take the track up with out damage. Or as I said in the beginning, am I just confused over such a simple concept? Dave wrote: >AHHH! Why are you drilling holes in the ties, especially when using roadbed? There are two proper ways to attach >track to your base/platform without ruining it by drilling holes in the ties. With plain track or with track with roadbed use >3/4 inch wire nails. They will just about fit thru the small holes on each end of the ties punched there by the factory. A >light tap and it goes right through the factory holes and into the base material. For track with roadbed you can use 1/2 >inch wire nails, and place one on each side of the track directly through the roadbed at all track joints, and one in the >middle of the section thru the roadbed edge as needed. This method will prevent the sound from traveling thru the >nails and into a hard base board material making a lot of racket which is typically why we use roadbed in the first >place as to avoid the racket. Both of these methods makes secure attachment of trackage to your base, and avoids >ruining the track by drilling holes in the ties. <

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15661	From: Tim Brown	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Re: Track Screws

Hi, I'm going to add my 2 cents worth. A quick check at a local home supply center (Home Depot, etc), will find nails, wire nails and brads. I use wire nails (17X1) with a flat head (a sharpie will color in the head after installation). They are easily tapped through roadbed into homosote over pine with either a tack hammer or pushed in with pliers. Removal is simple with either a pair of needle nose pliers or regular pliers. Just position the pliers, push down, grab and extract (jeez, I sound like my dentist). Please try to avoid drilling through the rails. My thinking has always been that we don't own Flyer train stuff, we are caretakers until the guys in diapers are ready for it when we are in diapers. In my humble opinion (Paul), there will always be people interested in collecting antiques as long as there are antiques to collect, Flyer trains included. Okay, I'm done and I feel better now. Regards, Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ted Walton" <trwalton@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 7:43 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Track Screws > I'm confused. The subject heading is "track screws" but you are talking about > nails. Maybe my problem is that I'm not sure what a " wire nail" is. Is there > something special about a wire nail vs. a nail? Second problem I'm having with > the discussion is that the idea is to preserve the original integrative of the > track ( and of course hold the track in place). But what happens if (when) you > need to take the track or a section up. When I have tried to remove nailed > track, I do end up doing some damage. OK, maybe that's just clumsy me. My > thoughts are that the use of a proper size screw would work just as well in > holding the track down, and when its time to take the track up, the screw can > be backed out without any damage to the track. Yes, it will take time to screw > several hundred feet of track down, but you get this time back when you need to > take the track up with out damage. Or as I said in the beginning, am I just > confused over such a simple concept? > > Dave wrote: > > >AHHH! Why are you drilling holes in the ties, especially when using roadbed? > There are two proper ways to attach >track to your base/platform without > ruining it by drilling holes in the ties. With plain track or with track with > roadbed use >3/4 inch wire nails. They will just about fit thru the small holes > on each end of the ties punched there by the factory. A >light tap and it goes > right through the factory holes and into the base material. For track with > roadbed you can use 1/2 >inch wire nails, and place one on each side of the > track directly through the roadbed at all track joints, and one in the >middle > of the section thru the roadbed edge as needed. This method will prevent the > sound from traveling thru the >nails and into a hard base board material making > a lot of racket which is typically why we use roadbed in the first >place as to > avoid the racket. Both of these methods makes secure attachment of trackage to > your base, and avoids >ruining the track by drilling holes in the ties. < > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15662	From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: 641 GONDOLA - COMMON OR RARE?

Clear DayI need help with A Question for the experts! According to the Greenberg AF guide the 641 Gondola in gray with the TYPE A Trucks is A rare car. This is a GRAY plastic, unpainted and made in 51 car with trucks made in 47 - 48 and put on a 51 issue car...My 641 has TYPE A Trucks with 48 brass weights, just as described in the book however as I was comparing this one to my other 641, I noticed that it has TYPE B Trucks with 49 and up black weight links....Since this one is not listed in my book does any one know if it is listed in a newer issue. It seems to me that the one I sold in 91 was with black weights also, although I am not sure....So which version is common and which is rare? BOB [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15663	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Re: Dewey's "too much" Flyer

OH Bother! Hasty reply gets me into more trouble!!! "Too much" Flyer meant that I have too much equipment already to even THINK about going "all new stuff." Besides, my favorite pastime is repairing Flyer. Open up these new units and you see can motors and electronic circuit boards! While I have replaced power diodes in a solid state reverse unit, I'm really not that comfortable with this new-fangled apparatus! I hope this reply isn't too hasty, but it is hasty as dinner is calling!! Priorities, you know! S' David D. PS And, yes I was suffering from toy train overload after seeing the collection Steve took me to (no names, but there were things like G Fox, White, SIT 332 & 342, zowies!). My visit "up north" was fantastic, made so because of the hospitality given me by SnS and John Eichmann and the Rocky Mountain Hi-Railers.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15664	From: Tim Brown	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: So many train show, so little time

Hi, Which train show should I attend this weekend, The Whistle Stop in Williamsport, or the Greenberg Train Show in Timonium, Maryland? Simple question, hope it's not a tough answer. Regards, Tim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15665	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Re: New, but not to S

Chris: The AC designation appeared in 1949 or 50 to differentiate the regular line from the DC line. It was an attempt to overcome dealer confusion about the line. For a while, the Electronic Propulsion 332 and 342 had a DC suffix. AC remained on the cabs of the regular trains after DC was discontinued. Even the Hudsons and Atlantics had AC suffixes, though there was never one produced in DC to differentiate them from. The Hudson was previewed in an early dealer catalog in DC, but never produced. In short, if it is not a DC motor, it's a universal motor. Chris Zizzo ----- Original Message ----- From: <Cbtrainnut1@...> To: <busyboy@...> Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 3:31 PM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Re: New, but not to S > In a message dated 11/28/01 6:58:48 AM Pacific Standard Time, > busyboy@... writes: > > > > In short, no matter which American Flyer stuff you have, it will ALL run on > > DC. > > > > > > CZ wrote:In short, no matter which American Flyer stuff you have, it will ALL > run on > DC. > Hi Chris, correct me if I'm mistaken, but aren't there a few engines marked > with AC after the numbers on the engines which can only run on AC? For > example, the 332AC. I know the 332 DC will only run on DC. Maybe I am > confused. I know most have universal motors which run AC/DC. Straighten me > out on this . > > THE TRAINNUT > CHRIS >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15666	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Re: New, but not to S

Bob Bubeck said: >DC Northerns and 0-8-0s were built from 1947 into 1950 (e.g., 334DC). BTW, >the use of DC is worthwhile considering because several DC versions of these >desirable engines are often found in nicer condition for less money, and they >do run very well. Bob: I bought a 332 DC some years ago and installed a reverse unit from a junker 302, a big Radio Shack full wave bridge and a large capacitor. I run it on AC and it is an amazing puller. It easily handles 9 extruded aluminum cars. Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15667	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1220

BTW, I forgot to mention that I am running an AB combination, with the B unit hooked to the cars. Don't know if that makes a difference. Try that combination also. "finerty, paul" wrote: > > Hi Chuck, > > I don't know off the top of my head, if I have time I'll check tonight. > Might the problem be that I have an A-B-A? I'll try them individually and > as a pair with the B unit removed and see if any of the different > combinations run through the AF curves OK..... > > Paul > > -----Original Message----- > From: Chuck Smith [mailto:cesmith@...] > Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 12:28 PM > To: finerty, paul > Cc: 'S-Trains@yahoogroups.com' > Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1220 > > I have a pair of AM PA's that runs on my Flyer track with no Problems. > Does yours have the extra cutout in the pilot for the hirail couplers? > > "finerty, paul" wrote: > > > > Craig E. Manning wrote: > > > > >> I liked the track I saw with showcaseline, but liked the sets and > diesels > > >> better at the AM's site. > > >> > > >> And... can I run the diesels with my old AF track ? I don't know what > the > > >> radius on curves is right at the moment, or if that is even an issue ? > > > > Chuck Smith wrote: > > > > >Gilbert track is about 19 1/2" radius and all SHS and AM hirail > > >locomotives will run on it. > > > > I have the American Models PA set of diesels (Southern Pacific) and they > > can't handle the curves of my Flyer track. The length of the six wheel > > trucks themselves seems to be the issue. I bought a bunch of AM track, > > replaced one of my Flyer loops, and everything works fine. I have to run > > them on the loop with AM track exclusively though, but it's no big deal. > > They are gorgeous engines and run great. > > > > Paul Finerty -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15668	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: To reply, or not to reply . . . that is the question.

If you get individual e-mails, they are "From" the person who sent them and are merely duplicated and distributed by the list server software. If you hit "Reply", the answer goes back to the person in the "From" line. If you get the Digest version, the "From" line says "S-Trains@yahoogroups.com". If you hit Reply, you send to S-Trains, which is were you got it "From". If you hit "Reply", and your mail program is configured to re-print the original e-mail in your reply, you will copy and send the entire previous day's digest, up to 25 messages with all the headers and other nonsense, just so you can say "Yeah, me too!" This will be posted as a permanent part of the S-trains archives. In your reply to an individual, only the one message will repeat, and only to him. The bottom line: If you subscribe to the Digest version, don't use "Reply" . Instead, generate a new e-mail and send it to S-Trains@yahoogroups.com. If you need to quote something, cut and paste it in. Put the S-Trains address into your address book. Use a simple name for it. I use "slist". Then your auto-complete software will address your mail automatically after you type in "s" or "sl". It's much easier than some of the incredible shananigans people go through to post. Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15669	From: Lance McCold	Date: 11/28/2001
Subject: Loose drivers

I bought a die cast 302 with metal drivers. It looks pretty good and runs fine. But, occasionally, it derails for no apparent reason. I took it apart because the wheels did not seem true--they seem to wobble from wider gauge to narrower gauge as they go around. I thought I would take them off and press them back on square. As I was taking it apart, I found that on one side both drivers slide in and out on the axle about 1/16 inch with very little pressure. I took one wheel off and found that the raised ridges on the axle are fine, but the inside of the wheel (where the axle goes) is somewhat smooth and obviously too large to grip the axle tightly. So, what do I do? Do I need to buy new wheels? Should I use epoxy? Should I use super glue? Would a shim of 0.001 brass do the job? Has anyone found a better solution? Thanks in advance for your suggestions. Lance

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15670	From: Alex Sibbald	Date: 11/29/2001
Subject: great american train show

Hi Group, The Great American Train Show is coming out to my neck of the woods in Del Mar, Ca this weekend. Does anyone know if S guage will be represented by any of the manufacturers, NASG, etc. Thx, Alex(innotron)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15671	From: David	Date: 11/29/2001
Subject: Re: Track Screws

Ted, a wire nail is a very thin nail like a brad only with a flat head. They almost fit thru the small hole punched in the ends of the ties by the factory without effort. There is no screw small enough to use in those holes that is also long enough so screws are not possible unless one starts drilling holes in ties which ruins the track. When you go to buy these "nails" you will need to go to the hardware section and look for wire nails, as that is what the industry calls them. They are very simple to remove. If the nails are used in the ends of the ties simply take a needle nose plyers, insert under the tie end and lift gently. It pulls the tie and nail up neatly and without damage. Then just use the needle nose to grab the nail and pull it out. If you've nailed thru the roadbed, its flexible enough that you can use the needle nose plyers push the tips down into the roadbed a little to get ahold of the nailhead and squeeze and pull. Again, very neat and effective with no damage inflicted.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15672	From: David	Date: 11/29/2001
Subject: Re: 641 GONDOLA - COMMON OR RARE?

The trucks have nothing to do with rarity. If its moulded gray its rare, if its painted red its common.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15673	From: David	Date: 11/29/2001
Subject: Re: great american train show

There is typically some showing of Flyer at those shows. To spot it easily look for outrageous prices for junky items that are shrink wrapped. :o)~

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15674	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 11/29/2001
Subject: Re: Loose drivers

It seems to me that the subject of this post could take on quite different meanings on different lists. Imagine: Golf_Equipment@yahoogroups.com , Computer_Troubleshooting@yahoogroups.com , and Auto_Erotica@... . Lance McCold implores us: >So, what do I do? Do I need to buy new wheels? Should I use epoxy? Should I >use super glue? Would a shim of 0.001 brass do the job? Has anyone found a >better solution? Actually, Lance, you've got some winners there. Take a hold on the shim, though. This is a good way to make it worse and go out of center. Buying new wheels, of course, well what can I say? It solves it, doesn't it? So that leaves us with glue. Epoxy works great. It fills gaps and stops extraneous movement. I've used it and I'm happy with it 20 years later. However, you didn't say if the wheels are actually wobbling, or running off center. If you think they are simply sliding on the axle, start with some Zap-A-Gap CA glue. Clean the axle and hub with alcohol first. Glue it, and don't rotate out of quarter!!!!! Make some mark so you know where you are. This stuff will stop the sliding, at least for a while. If it works really well and there are no more problems, keep running the engine until the CA breaks (could be a year). Then repair again with epoxy. That will be more permanent. Hopefully, you are only doing one side. You might need to disassemble the engine someday and epoxy is, well . . . more permanent. If, after the CA repair, the engine hops up and down, your hubs were more worn than you thought and new wheels is where you're goin'. Two to go, Chris Zizzo Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15675	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 11/29/2001
Subject: Re: Loose drivers

I had made a document of excerpts of all the ways guys came up with on list to fix this problem, because there were about 7 different good ways to do it. I thought this was a very interesting demonstration of how good this list can be. So I sent Lance a copy. He now has all of our ideas on this subject. Tom J

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15676	From: Scott Holm	Date: 11/29/2001
Subject: Re: Track Screws

--- Ted Walton <trwalton@...> wrote: > The subject heading is "track screws" but you are > talking about nails. Another advantage to using screws is that with the proper size they can be used to raise and lower the tie so you can adjust the level of the track. You can create a slight bank in the turns. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15677	From: Scott Holm	Date: 11/29/2001
Subject: 332 DC

--- Chris Zizzo <busyboy@...> wrote: > I bought a 332 DC some years ago and installed a reverse unit from a > junker 302, a big Radio Shack full wave bridge and a large capacitor. I run it on AC and it is an amazing puller. It easily handles 9 extruded aluminum cars. I did the same and it ran faster than any engine I've ever seen, until it ran right off the layout and plunged to the concrete. It never ran well after that, so I completely converted it to an AC large motor and now it can barely pull 4 aluminum cars. I'm going to try pulmor tires next, but if that doesn't work out, I'm going back to the DC, with perhaps a new DC magnet. I remember measuring the DC output voltage from the rectifier/capacitor and it was almost 40 volts! No wonder it ran so fast. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15678	From: mvandiver2@aol.com	Date: 11/29/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1221

What is the best material to use for road bed? I am doing a layout on a 3/4" piece of plywood and would like to keep noise level down as much as possible. Mike Vandiver [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15679	From: Horn, David	Date: 11/29/2001
Subject: 742 bumpers, track screws, shows

OK, so everyone enjoyed a respite from my emails while I tried to figure out how to edit my email address on Yahoogroups from david_horn to david.horn. It looks straightforward at first, but not really. There's actually no way to edit an existing email address, you have to add one, and then enter each group that you're a member of and select the newly added address instead of one of the old ones, weird, but hopefully now this will work. Anyway, for the 742, I've experimented with different bumper materials and designs, and finally arrived at a solution that works well. Each bumper is cut from a piece of high density gray foam. They slip between the rails at the ends of the run and are secured to the layout with a single 2" 6x32 bolt down through each unit. The end of the handcar's chassis (not the shell) strikes one surface of the bumper while the reverse rod meets a more recessed surface of the bumper and gets gently pushed into position. Bingo, it's off and running in the opposite direction. I can send you a crude diagram with dimensions if you'd like. I screw my AF track down and also prefer the technique of drilling a 1/8" hole in the tie ahead of time. I've used different screws (slotted, Phillips, Home Depot and hobby shop), but IMHO the best ones are by Gargraves. They're black, Phillips head, and work great. Gargraves sells them in bags of 50 or 100 (not sure which) and in different lengths. The 1/2" are too short, but the next length up I think is 3/4" (not at home to check at the moment) and work beautifully. In a pinch, you can even use these without drilling the pilot hole. [|:0 In terms of which show to go to, I've been to Timonium and for S it's so-so. I don't know about the Williamsport show, but personally I'd try that one and see. PS As far a the "dead" gauge things goes, I think it's great we have the classics and new items to enjoy. Both provide lots of fun. For example, I doubt anyone will ever again produce a steamer like AC's large motor 313 in good tune - - top end speed way beyond scale with drivers that probably aren't exactly the right size, but it delivers a ton of toy train pleasure. I too like the repairability of the classic engines compared to new ones. On the other hand, I just ordered 5 box cars from John Huster because I love the quality, price, detail, looks, and smooth, easy rolling of SHS metal-wheeled, sprung-truck, rolling stock compared to their original ACG counterparts. The best of both worlds is out there with more to come. I certainly don't have all the ACG I'd ever want, and there's surely more neat new stuff on the way. Life and S-gauge is good. Relax, and enjoy it. http://www.boysrailroadclub.com/ <--link to J Huster's site. PS Only 20 or so Cookie Box cars left. The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for the addressee(s). BEST! Software, Inc. disclaims any responsibility for the contents of this message, including any attachments. The views expressed in this message are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect the views of the company or any other employee of the company. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, please notify BEST! Software, Inc. immediately by E-mailing Postmaster@... and destroy all copies of this message.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15680	From: Ted Larson	Date: 11/29/2001
Subject: Administration

Here are two administration concerns from the office of assistant list administrator...... 1) I've received virus infected e-mail from two NASG members in the last two days. If you receive an attachment that ends in .pif, send a note to whoever sent the note to inform him that he has a virus, and DELETE the note. REMINDER, practice safe-surfing; ALWAYS run an anti-virus program, update it frequently (some people advise WEEKLY), don't open any attachments from people you don't know, and don't open attachments from people you know UNLESS you are expecting an attachment from them. 2) The "budd-buddies" episode occasionally comes up in jest. Unfortunately, the subject is apparently painful for some list members and usually elicits much extraneous commentary, most of which is not beneficial to our list purpose. I suggest that this subject be off-limits unless pertinent to a list topic AND can be referenced constructively. If you disagree, please contact Paul Yorke and myself off-list. Thanks, ===== Ted Larson __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15681	From: Carl Tuveson	Date: 11/29/2001
Subject: Re: Administration

RE: Item 1. The latest E-mail virus plague is "Win32.Badtrans". This virus does not even have to be opened to be activated. If you use Outlook or Outlook Express and use the message preview pane, You will become infected. My mail server here has been inundated with messages from people that are not running any virus protection. If you are on the list it (in my opion) should mandatory that you run an anti-virus scanning program. Get the latest patches from Microsoft if you use Outlook and don't use the preview message option. Keep your Anti-virus updated weekly. Carl -----Original Message----- From: Ted Larson [mailto:mhrreast@...] Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 11:58 AM To: Scale S; Trains S Cc: Paul Yorke Subject: [S-Trains] Administration Here are two administration concerns from the office of assistant list administrator...... 1) I've received virus infected e-mail from two NASG members in the last two days. If you receive an attachment that ends in .pif, send a note to whoever sent the note to inform him that he has a virus, and DELETE the note. REMINDER, practice safe-surfing; ALWAYS run an anti-virus program, update it frequently (some people advise WEEKLY), don't open any attachments from people you don't know, and don't open attachments from people you know UNLESS you are expecting an attachment from them. 2) The "budd-buddies" episode occasionally comes up in jest. Unfortunately, the subject is apparently painful for some list members and usually elicits much extraneous commentary, most of which is not beneficial to our list purpose. I suggest that this subject be off-limits unless pertinent to a list topic AND can be referenced constructively. If you disagree, please contact Paul Yorke and myself off-list. Thanks, ===== Ted Larson __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15682	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 11/29/2001
Subject: Loose drive wheel centers

- Greeting`S' - Lance has asked a good question regarding wheel centers loose on the axle. My preferred cure if the axle bore in the wheel is not so worn that the wheel will roak around on the axle is cement. I use LocTite brand Stud-n-Bearing liquid cement from the engine adhesives counter of the auto parts store. Clean axle and bore thoroughly. Make up shims from file cards or file folders to assure an equal spacing of wheel from chassis. Apply the cement to the bore after assuring that the wheel is properly quartered with respect to the other driver on that axle and the other driver set. It is better to lower the axle into the backside of the wheel. This keeps the cement from running along the axle and getting into the bearing. If this direction does not work for you, put a couple of snug-fitting pieces of absorbent paper on the axle to catch any runs, be sparing with the cement, and place the wheel down on the up-ended axle. Watch a test drop of cement on a scrap of card stock. When it starts to set up, get the absorbent paper out. With armature and rods removed, you may rotate the drivers and axles for a last-minute squareness check and adjustment. My experience with this cement has been good. Let's see what others suggest. Regarding proper wheel spacing, I find the axle does not protrude beyond the wheel center. Cheer`S' Rhett George

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15683	From: Bill Lane	Date: 11/29/2001
Subject: small chain

Hi All, I am in need of a large supply of small chain, preferably 40 links per inch on a reel and not blackened. I did a search for Builders in Scale, but did not find anything for them directly. The link was disabled. Are they still in business? Other suppliers had B I S items listed, but I am not sure of their in stock status. Does anyone know of another supplier? I cannot afford approximately $2.00 per foot retail. Please reply to billlane@... Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you Bill

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15684	From: Dennis Conway	Date: 11/29/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] small chain

Bill, Try E-mailing Precision Scale from their website at: http://www.precisionscaleco.com/ ... and/or by faxing Clover House at 707-823-7301 Perhaps one of them can help direct you to a good source. Hope this helps, Dennis Conway Los Angeles Hi All, I am in need of a large supply of small chain, preferably 40 links per inch on a reel and not blackened. I did a search for Builders in Scale, but did not find anything for them directly. The link was disabled. Are they still in business? Other suppliers had B I S items listed, but I am not sure of their in stock status. Does anyone know of another supplier? I cannot afford approximately $2.00 per foot retail. Please reply to billlane@... Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you Bill To see or post Photos visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Scale/files/ or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/ To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15685	From: gunrjoe@aol.com	Date: 11/29/2001
Subject: Flyer track/roadbed

Read with interest the recent discussions as I have gone through much of it recently. I recently obtained about 40 pieces of the Johnson repro rubber roadbed for flyer track. I wanted it for under the tree and set up a 70" by 60" mainline with one siding. Boy does it look great on the hardwood floor, nothing else is needed. I would recommend any of the newer guys to at least obtain a sample and look at it. My greatest fear now is how I am going to resist buying another 200 pieces to put under other trackage. The illness continues. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15686	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/29/2001
Subject: Re: Loose drivers

I had a similar problem and loctite worked for me. You have to be patient and let it set, preferably for 24 hours. Got it at an auto supply store. I was impatient and it took a couple of attempts to get it to set up. may or may not work for your case but it's another avenue to try short of replacing. Lance McCold wrote: > > I bought a die cast 302 with metal drivers. It looks pretty good and runs > fine. But, occasionally, it derails for no apparent reason. I took it apart > because the wheels did not seem true--they seem to wobble from wider gauge > to narrower gauge as they go around. I thought I would take them off and > press them back on square. As I was taking it apart, I found that on one > side both drivers slide in and out on the axle about 1/16 inch with very > little pressure. I took one wheel off and found that the raised ridges on > the axle are fine, but the inside of the wheel (where the axle goes) is > somewhat smooth and obviously too large to grip the axle tightly. > > So, what do I do? Do I need to buy new wheels? Should I use epoxy? Should I > use super glue? Would a shim of 0.001 brass do the job? Has anyone found a > better solution? > > Thanks in advance for your suggestions. > > Lance > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15687	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/29/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1221

Homasote ain't bad. AM sells it on their website. mvandiver2@... wrote: > > What is the best material to use for road bed? I am doing a layout on a 3/4" > piece of plywood and would like to keep noise level down as much as possible. > Mike Vandiver > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15688	From: john4flyer@yahoo.com	Date: 11/29/2001
Subject: Help with smoke unit......

I am at my wits end. Just rebuilt an AF 290 Pacific including the smoke unit. Ohms are 34. Entire unit was ultrasonically cleaned and appropriate holes cleaned out with a needle. Engine chugs fine and loud. Unit smokes, but barely. Loco is now very fast and smokes better at top speed, but just a little better. This was with 16v going the the track...too fast to keep it on the track even with 6 passenger cars. Any suggestions? Does it make sense that with a very fast loco you would reduce your windings even more? Thanks! John Napierski.....TCA 98-47685

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15689	From: Don Thompson	Date: 11/29/2001
Subject: Re: Roadbed

> Another type is Vinyl Bed from Hobby Innovations Dept. X, 1789 Campbell > Rd, Mountain City, TN 37683, voice 423-727-8000, or Vinylbed@... > Part number 416126 is for the 3/8" tall S roadbed that matches our > roadbed from the sectional track. > > Don Thompson Chuck Smith wrote: > Homasote ain't bad. AM sells it on their website. > > mvandiver2@... wrote: > > > > What is the best material to use for road bed? I am doing a layout on a 3/4" > > piece of plywood and would like to keep noise level down as much as possible. > > Mike Vandiver > > -- -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15690	From: Donald P. Abrams	Date: 11/29/2001
Subject: 641 Rare?

Robert, I've wondered about the grey 641 for a long time myself. The only one I've ever seen is the one I have. I bought it on Ebay about 3 years ago. I don't have access to the car or the hardcover Greenberg's right now, but will try to sneak a peek tomorrow. I really don't see why brass or black weights would make a difference in rarity (value?) because I can't think of another instance where it is so at least for link cars. I spoke breifly to Mr. Tufts a few years ago and asked if he knew more about this car than the price guides state, but he didn't. I've always been curious as to who went on record as putting it in as a 1951 product. If they are out there with brass weights then it makes more sense that it would be a 1948 piece just like the 631 in grey unpainted plastic. I had one of those, but let it go when I was offered a price I couldn't refuse and it had brass weights. The only 1951 set containing the 641 was the 590T. Interestingly enough that set is described in the catalog as having a red 642 boxcar, a red 641 gondola and a red 638 caboose. That makes little sense either -- three freight cars all the same color??? Very unusual -- you would think they wouldn't market something like that. So I've watched Ebay for years to see if a 590T set would turn up. I've seen only two. One did have the three red cars and also the 300AC with the long tender frame -- it was in good condition at best and had no boxes. The other was boxed and had boxes for the cars. The 638 and 641 gondola (red) were in early postwar blue/yellow boxes and there was a 639 reefer in yellow in the later blue/yellow box. I e-mailed the seller concerning originality of the set, but he wasn't knowledgeable about trains. So I guess the 641 grey gondola is considered 'uncataloged' because of its' color, because it was only cataloged in red. According to Mr. Tufts book ( from my memory here) there weren't any uncataloged sets made in 1951. I also just noticed that the pocket Greenberg (2001 edition) claims 1949-1952 production, but I'm pretty certain that it's not in any cataloged sets in 1952. Take care, Don

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15691	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 11/29/2001
Subject: Help with smoke unit

The 290 is a 4 wire loco; smoke unit wired in parallel with brushes. With these locos, I've had good luck with replacement smoke coils at about 25 to 30 ohms. Did the ultrasonic cleaner really get the wick clean? Mine, which is a small one, wouldn't do that. A new wick might help too. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15692	From: Carl Tuveson	Date: 11/29/2001
Subject: Re: Help with smoke unit......

John, 34 ohms is a good reading for the winding. I assume you replaced the wicking? Here are couple of possibilities as to why the smoke unit is not putting out like it should. In re-assembling the smoke unit you may have the air way blocked with the element or wicking. Did you prime the wicking with smoke fluid before re-assembling? As a last resort now that you have the motor running so well, the voltage accross the brushes may not be high enough for the smoke element to get hot enough. You could wire the smoker so that it gets the full track voltage. This was done on some models by using a fifth wire soldered into the eyelet of the engines connector and then to the tender. Here is a link to a wiring diagram: http://list.wsbt.com/af/steamwiring.htm Carl -----Original Message----- From: john4flyer@... [mailto:john4flyer@...] Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 9:56 PM To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [S-Trains] Help with smoke unit...... I am at my wits end. Just rebuilt an AF 290 Pacific including the smoke unit. Ohms are 34. Entire unit was ultrasonically cleaned and appropriate holes cleaned out with a needle. Engine chugs fine and loud. Unit smokes, but barely. Loco is now very fast and smokes better at top speed, but just a little better. This was with 16v going the the track...too fast to keep it on the track even with 6 passenger cars. Any suggestions? Does it make sense that with a very fast loco you would reduce your windings even more? Thanks! John Napierski.....TCA 98-47685 S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15693	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/29/2001
Subject: Re: Help with smoke unit......

John, Your ohm reading are in the ballpark, so what might have happened? Many variables: 1) old wick that is burnt, so won't "wick" fluid up. 2) wick isn't centered in the airstream opening. (needs to be hanging in the "middle" of that pocket, to low and it burns the cardboard, too high and it burns the micarda top, and neither position gives good air circulation around the wick. 3) you say it chuffs nicely, but there is still the (remote) possibility that the small air entry hole is blocked (cardboard out of place maybe?? 4) How bright is the headlight, any chance of a mis-wire so it's in series with some motor component? 5) Bad smoke fluid (just throwing this on in, not sure if it's even valid!) I know most of my rebuilt units will drive you outa the room with some of the modern smoke fluids. 6) Element wire crossing over itself (which usually gives a lower ohm reading, and burns out quickly). Think that's most of the problems. Let us know what you find. S' David D. PS BTW, if it isn't in the instructions, the proper way to install the unit cover is to set the wick and element where it belongs in the unit, carefully feed the nichrome wire through the cover eyelets and screw the cover on. Then take each lead and wrap it around the wire lug four or five times, cut off the extra length. Then you solder the wires on, and the solder goes around the nichrome wire (which will NOT solder). Removing cover is just the reverse, and YES I use a magnifier to see what I'm doing during this operation!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15694	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/29/2001
Subject: Re: Help with smoke unit......

When I rebuilt and repainted my 290 I added a fifth wire from one tender truck directly to the smoke unit so the smoke element always gets full track voltage. It's a good smoker now. This is a "utiity engine" I usually have on the layout and it sports a K5 tender lettered for the "Chemung Valley". Obviously not a rare collectible piece anymore. After running all one day at a train show the engine is now one of my best runners, draws very little current and is fast. Carl Tuveson wrote: > > John, > > 34 ohms is a good reading for the winding. I assume you replaced the > wicking? Here are couple of possibilities as to why the smoke unit is not > putting out like it should. In re-assembling the smoke unit you may have the > air way blocked with the element or wicking. Did you prime the wicking with > smoke fluid before re-assembling? As a last resort now that you have the > motor running so well, the voltage accross the brushes may not be high > enough for the smoke element to get hot enough. You could wire the smoker so > that it gets the full track voltage. This was done on some models by using > a fifth wire soldered into the eyelet of the engines connector and then to > the tender. > > Here is a link to a wiring diagram: > http://list.wsbt.com/af/steamwiring.htm > > Carl > > -----Original Message----- > From: john4flyer@... [mailto:john4flyer@...] > Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 9:56 PM > To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [S-Trains] Help with smoke unit...... > > I am at my wits end. Just rebuilt an AF 290 Pacific including the > smoke unit. Ohms are 34. Entire unit was ultrasonically cleaned and > appropriate holes cleaned out with a needle. Engine chugs fine and > loud. > > Unit smokes, but barely. Loco is now very fast and smokes better at > top speed, but just a little better. This was with 16v going the the > track...too fast to keep it on the track even with 6 passenger cars. > > Any suggestions? > > Does it make sense that with a very fast loco you would reduce your > windings even more? > > Thanks! > > John Napierski.....TCA 98-47685 > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15695	From: Craig E Manning	Date: 11/30/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1221

G'morning all, Homosote is a common building material, not used as much today as it used to be but you can find the stuff at local lumber supply places and I'm sure cheaper than any website. The stuff will take a wire brad quite easily and hold too, yet allow the ease of pulling out and a layout on this stuff with the rubber roadbed makes for a nice quiet pike. Mine was a 5x9 sheet with an outside oval and a figure 8, inside with a couple switches to access the main line and we had that board for 25 years before we took it all apart to move. We routed a 1x3 to fit the thickness of the homosote and mitered the corners (framed) and that left us with about an inch below the surface (on a gnip-gnop table left room for wiring) and maybe an inch and half above all the way around. We spanned with ribs across the 5 foot dimension like studs for additional support. Saved those engines many a time from a nose dive onto the floor during a derail. And too if we needed, we could collect up the building's and loose stuff and stand up the pike against the wall next to the table. Craig Manning Rolla, MO Chuck Smith <cesmith@ezne To: mvandiver2@... t.net> cc: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1221 11/29/01 06:19 PM Homasote ain't bad. AM sells it on their website. mvandiver2@... wrote: > > What is the best material to use for road bed? I am doing a layout on a 3/4" > piece of plywood and would like to keep noise level down as much as possible. > Mike Vandiver > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15696	From: rpd3@att.net	Date: 11/30/2001
Subject: budd buddies

Ted, What are budd buddies and what is your concern with them? Roger Delthony

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15697	From: Scott Holm	Date: 11/30/2001
Subject: Re: Help with smoke unit

You could also add a 5th wire and rewire it so that the full 16V is applied to the smoke unit. With it wired in parallel with the brushes, it's also wired in series with the field, so some of the power is lost. To wire it so it gets full power, remove the wire that leads from the smoke unit to the brush that is connected to the reverse unit (not the one connected to a truck,) and replace it with a wire from the smoke unit all the way to the other truck. --- jarcho@... wrote: > The 290 is a 4 wire loco; smoke unit wired in parallel with brushes. > With these locos, I've had good luck with replacement smoke coils at about 25 to 30 ohms. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15698	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 11/30/2001
Subject: Re: 641 Rare?

In a message dated 11/29/01 10:23:16 PM, donabrams@... writes: << I've wondered about the gray 641 for a long time myself. >> The gray 641 is an uncommon, "tough" car, but it is not "rare"* and they do show up from time to time in some level of condition. It is an uncataloged version from 1951. I do not own one, but both of my Flyer buddies in town do have nice examples. As a point of reference, I see more gray 641s than I do orange 625s. Since the gray for the 641 is the same as for many 632s and 640s, which were made in large quantities up into 1953, it is easy to imagine that on a production run (or so) of 641s they may have had a lot of gray polystyrene that they wished to use up. And, they may have been short of red. Voila! One should not get too over wrought about brass coupler weights -- I own a 648 with original brass coupler weights and that is a 52-54 car. Remember that at that time, parts were parts, and they would grab whatever they needed (or found) to assemble toys and push them out of the door. Another example -- both my buddy and I have single piece die cast 302ACs with natural color die cast journal boxes -- 1946 parts on 1950-51 engines. Go figure. RB *PS: "Rare" is an overused word -- "scarce" is usually more appropriate.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15699	From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com	Date: 11/30/2001
Subject: Re: word rare

I like my Steaks medium RARE!:) THE TRAINNUT CHRIS [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15700	From: lawrence Jackman	Date: 11/30/2001
Subject: Re: budd buddies

WHAT WERE THE "BUDD BUDDIES"? They were were a group of S scales modelers who put up the money for me to produce a set of Budd passenger cars. The project fell apart when my mold maker (who is one of the finest in the hobby) refused to make any more molds after one of the Buddies ( who had the power to accept or reject the part) rejected the bolster on the 41NDO passenger car truck 5 times plus other detail on the truck several times. The time period for the project ran out and I called him to see what he wanted to do about the time element and he said hold off. Then about 6 months later when I did not go the the model meet in Michigan, he feelings got hurt. I tried to sell the project and had a buyer but he said he would sue the buyer if he bought it. So the sale fell through. Had the project been sold the Budd Buddies would have gotten their money back including the interest. Then to punish me he sued me. The suit was settled for 50 cents on the dollar. I got the molds which I sold to the person who was going to buy them to start with. So the Budd Buddies lost half of their money and all of the interest. I lost nothing. The money I received for the sale was used to pay my lawyer, so the Budd Buddies ended up paying my lawyer fees because one on them wanted to get even with me because I embarrassed him. Notice no names have been used but I will name names in my next post if this person wants to get it started again. If sleeping dogs allowed to go back to sleep, then there will not be a next post. Thank you Larry Jackman rpd3@... wrote: > > Ted, > > What are budd buddies and what is your concern with them? > > Roger Delthony

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15701	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 11/30/2001
Subject: New Building Kit

To broaden the appeal of S, the NASG is considering a venture into new territory for us. The BOT is discussing a proposal for the NASG to sell a new modular building kit. It would be a design similar to the HO City Classics Smallman Warehouse #103. This kit can be viewed at the Walthers website. By using a modular approach, the kit could be expanded or altered by adding additional walls to the basic kit, which would be a medium size factory with a footprint of 8" by 12" by 8" high. The retail cost would be in the 45$ to $50 range per kit including shipping. It would go together easily and give S a valuable addition to its available products. We would be very interested in your reactions and whether such an item would have enough market appeal to make it worth while. Roy Hoffman NASG Pres.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15702	From: Bruce Crosby	Date: 11/30/2001
Subject: Re: Help with smoke unit

Scott & fellow rr's I've had success removing a few turns of nichrome wire off of wick.......this lowers the amount of volts needed to make the nichrome hot. Usually you have to run the trains very fast to get good smoke, using this method allows lower volts to get smoke and trains don't have to run wide open. The only caution is make sure you always keep the smoke generator full of liquid smoke to help eliminate it burning out the nichrome wire. I have yet to burn out a nichrome wire unit by removing turns off the wick !! Just another route to travel...................... Thanks Bruce Crosby NMRA# 114573 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Holm" <imsscott@...> To: "s-trains" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, November 30, 2001 9:12 AM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Help with smoke unit > You could also add a 5th wire and rewire it so that the full 16V is > applied to the smoke unit. With it wired in parallel with the brushes, > it's also wired in series with the field, so some of the power is lost. > To wire it so it gets full power, remove the wire that leads from the > smoke unit to the brush that is connected to the reverse unit (not the > one connected to a truck,) and replace it with a wire from the smoke > unit all the way to the other truck. > > --- jarcho@... wrote: > > The 290 is a 4 wire loco; smoke unit wired in parallel with brushes. > > With these locos, I've had good luck with replacement smoke coils at > about 25 to 30 ohms. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. > http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15703	From: Mark Preman	Date: 11/30/2001
Subject: Florida Great American Train Shows

AmericanFlyerTrains.com will be at the GATS in Miami on December 8 and 9 and at the GATS in Tampa on December 15 and 16. Hope to see some of you there. Mark B. Preman ===== Mark B. Preman AmericanFlyerTrains.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15704	From: Tim Brown	Date: 11/30/2001
Subject: Train Shows

Hi All, I want to pose this question again 'cuz I haven't heard a response yet. Is the Williamsport, PA train show scheduled for this Sunday a good one for people interested in Flyer stuff? There are a couple guys from the Harrisburg area interested in maybe making the trip. Thanks, Tim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15705	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 11/30/2001
Subject: Re: Train Shows, Sunday Dec 2

Tim, Good bet is the Gilbertsville Show at the Gilbertsville Fire Co Hall on Rt 73 several blocks east of Rt 100 North. Always several good A/F dealers there, on both the main floor and in the lower level. Fred Jester, the Flyer parts guy is there also. You Harrisburg guys might want to take the turnpike east to the Downingtown exit and jump on Rt 100 North. Probably two hour ride, but almost always worth it. Stop at table 29, beside and across from two big Flyer dealers and say Hi!. Jim Lyle [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15706	From: Don Thompson	Date: 11/30/2001
Subject: Re: SHS 2001 christmas cars Now in Stock

Dear Jim, Yes, we have a 2001 Christmas Boxcar. It is a Northern Pacific, single sheathed 40' wooden boxcar. When the doors are open, the car features "Santa's helper asleep on the large gift wrapped package. CTT had a great picture of the car with the doors closed. Boy, were we depressed. On the outside of the car in tiny chalk marks it has, " Merry Christmas 01" in scrip lettering. The cars retails for $39.95. Don Jim Hughes wrote: > Do you have any christmas cars or cabooses.Thanks JimPlease let me > know -- -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15707	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 11/30/2001
Subject: mth sawmill

Is it out yet? How does it work? Keith _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15708	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 11/30/2001
Subject: Roadbed option

In a message dated 11/30/2001 4:10:43 AM Mountain Standard Time, S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes: > Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 11:37:14 EST > From: mvandiver2@... > Subject: Re: Digest Number 1221 > > What is the best material to use for road bed? I am doing a layout on a > 3/4" > piece of plywood and would like to keep noise level down as much as > possible. > Mike Vandiver > > > I usually keep my mouth shut on questions like this, but since I haven't seen this "solution" put forth yet, I just gotta speak up. The cheapest "effective" way to keep the noise down is with "Blueboard" glued down over your plywood. (Use liquid nails) It is an insulation material available at home improvement stores. It comes in 1/2 inch and 1" thick sheets and is 4x8 ft. It is very, very inexpensive. It's what I just used to remodel my layout with AM track from AF with rubber roadbed. On top of the blueboard I use 1/4' thick insulation material that comes in a 5 1/4 inch wide roll and is used for insulating the cement foundation from the wood sills in home construction. It is baffled on one side, and that's the side you put down on the blueboard. (same glue) I cut it with scissors to a size wider than the track and it gives you the elevation needed for ballasting. This configuration is whisper quiet even with the nosiest of Locos and cars. We will be showing this technique is Vol. IV of S-Gauge Model Railroading. Try it, you'll like it. Steve Blackburn S-n'-S Trains Boise, Idaho [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15709	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 11/30/2001
Subject: NTTM

The National Toy Train Museum has been a New Years Eve day stop for many years for our friends from the South Jersey S Guagers. Just a note to everyone that NTTM is closing for the season on New Years Eve at 1500 hrs (3 PM), and will not reopen to the public until Easter Time. Visitors to NTTM of the S-Guage persuasion will normally find the new American Models PRR "Torpedo" K-4s Pacific pulling heavy-weights, AMTRAK getting into training plus many fine examples of S-Helper Service cars and locos. As always, American Flyer reigns supreme on the rear display wall along with some recent Lionel/Flyer and American Models. NTTM is open weekends until Christmas week and then daily, always 10 AM to 5 PM Tell them Jim sent you. Won't get you anything. Jim Lyle [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15710	From: Lance McCold	Date: 11/30/2001
Subject: Thanks for loose driver help

Thanks to all those who posted or sent me suggestions for fixing the loose drivers. I have not fixed them yet, but I am confident I can do it now. You guys are great! Lance

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15711	From: negative_pitch@hotmail.com	Date: 12/1/2001
Subject: Smoke unit leaking

I get smoke fluid leaking through the mounting screw threads. What is a good sealer to use to prevent this mess on the bottom of the chassis?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15712	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 12/1/2001
Subject: New file uploaded to S-Trains

Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the S-Trains group. File : /00564photo2.JPG Uploaded by : yorke@... Description : S-Helper Christmas 01 Boxcar You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/00564photo2.JPG To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, yorke@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15713	From: TED R LARSON	Date: 12/1/2001
Subject: timeSaver

To go along with the recent announcement of an NASG timeSaver switching module, I would like to see NASG sponsor a timeSaver design contest for 3 purposes; allow us to see the creative ideas of other NASG members, allow us to see good ideas for a timeSaver, and for FUN. Prizes need be nothing more than the honor of winning. I further suggest that the contest rules specify that the timeSaver fit on two 4 foot x 30 inch (max) S-MOD modules as a way to promote S-MOD. Based on a quick look at the timeSaver plans, I'm not sure if it would actually fit in 8 feet....... if not, modify the rules to require that all the switches be on the two modules, but that the switching space be allowed to spill over on to an adjacent module(s). One other point of clarification is needed, I've seen timeSaver designs using 5, 6, and 7 switches. Which is "correct"? 6 switches seems to predominate. http://members.tripod.co.uk/thirdrail/sw-timesaver.html I'm especially interested in any S-MOD timeSaver which incorporates the typical S-MOD two track mainline. Ted Larson Most paved roads lead to trouble; Dirt Roads more likely lead to a fishing creek or a swimming hole. ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15714	From: kathy/tom Gerbasi	Date: 12/2/2001
Subject: Loads for Flyer unloading car, and other stuff

Corgi has just come out with a line of fire trucks called "Fire Heros". They are "about 1/64" scale, although most of the items are retreads of the old LLedo line, so the ones that are cars or light trucks are closer to 1/50 and the trucks are closer to what Johnny Lightning calls 1/64 scale (which is smaller that what Ertl calls 1/64 scale). The 1/50 items (a Fire Chief Car and a Pontiac Panel truck), both look good with the old Plasticville figures The 1939 Ford Pumper, 1950's Mack B open Pumper and the 1966 GMC pumper, all share the same basic body. As is (i.e., unmodified), these truck will fit on a Flyer unloading car (the part of the mechanism that normally holds the axel on the original car slips into the spot on the Corgi truck behind the rear axel and the rear of the truck and unload just fine (for those of you who want a more prototypical load on a non prototypical car, but what the hell, Model Railroading is supposed to be FUN). For those of you, more into scale, the pumper body can be removed by drilling out the rivets, and underneith is a frame attached to the cab that can be adapted as a tractor for a trailer or you can mount another body, like a stake bed. At about $7-10 per truck, this is affordable. There are what appear to be 2 completely new casting in the bunch, a Seagrave Pumper and an American La France 900 Pumper that are both VERY nice, although they will not fit on the Unloading car. I put these in my fire house on my layout. . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15715	From: Scott Brown	Date: 12/2/2001
Subject: Re: Loads for Flyer unloading car, and other stuff

If any of you are looking for city specific fire aparatus that is truly 1/64, you need to find Code 3 trucks and ambulances. www.code3.net They also sell replica fire stations for cities like DC (where I am a paramedic) and FDNY. Corgi items are very nice, but too big for S gauge in my opinioin. I also use Road Champs fire trucks which fit size wise and cost alot less, but the detail isn't any where near as nice as Code 3. Scott Brown Atlantic Coast S Gaugers Washington & Old Dominion Division ----- Original Message ----- From: "kathy/tom Gerbasi" <kgerbasi@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2001 12:58 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Loads for Flyer unloading car, and other stuff > Corgi has just come out with a line of fire trucks called "Fire Heros". They are "about 1/64" scale, although most of the items are retreads of the old LLedo line, so the ones that are cars or light trucks are closer to 1/50 and the trucks are closer to what Johnny Lightning calls 1/64 scale (which is smaller that what Ertl calls 1/64 scale). The 1/50 items (a Fire Chief Car and a Pontiac Panel truck), both look good with the old Plasticville figures > > The 1939 Ford Pumper, 1950's Mack B open Pumper and the 1966 GMC pumper, all share the same basic body. As is (i.e., unmodified), these truck will fit on a Flyer unloading car (the part of the mechanism that normally holds the axel on the original car slips into the spot on the Corgi truck behind the rear axel and the rear of the truck and unload just fine (for those of you who want a more prototypical load on a non prototypical car, but what the hell, Model Railroading is supposed to be FUN). For those of you, more into scale, the pumper body can be removed by drilling out the rivets, and underneith is a frame attached to the cab that can be adapted as a tractor for a trailer or you can mount another body, like a stake bed. At about $7-10 per truck, this is affordable. > > > There are what appear to be 2 completely new casting in the bunch, a Seagrave Pumper and an American La France 900 Pumper that are both VERY nice, although they will not fit on the Unloading car. I put these in my fire house on my layout. > . > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15716	From: Scott Brown	Date: 12/2/2001
Subject: Ebay prize of the week

Here is my submission for ebay prize of the week. The seller is Marty's Trains in Oceanside NY which many of you have patronized. Marty's will let you buy a new 6-49010 Stable of Champion's Horse Car for ONLY $70 (buy it now price). Starting bid was $65. This item lists for $28. in the TM book and Trainworld has it for $34.95 . Go figure !! Fortunately with 40 minutes to go, no one has bid on it. Scott Brown [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15717	From: Scott Brown	Date: 12/2/2001
Subject: Ebay prize of the week

Opps. here is the address. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1669057473 Scott Brown [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15718	From: Charlie&Edith	Date: 12/2/2001
Subject: Hopper?

Greetings to all. Need some help identifying a possible AF unloading hopper? This was a gift from a friend who does "L", but there were only five parts in the package. Wonder if that was on purpose? Anyway, I'll try to describe them. The base is yellow, 6 1/2" long by 1 7/8" wide and is stamped. The sides of the base are straight across and the end steps are identical to Flyer as are the truck rivet indention's. There is a cutout in the center of the base that is 3" long by 1 /12" wide. In the center of the bottom of the frame are two tabs that hold a shaft with a partially circular (cookie with a bite out of it) metal disk in the center. There are four slots in one end and six in the other end of the base between the rivet indention and the end of the base. There are two sloping pieces that that attach to the base and appear to form the inside ends of a hopper car. These extend through the base but do not come together, an opening of about an inch. The last piece is a ladder, identical to the one on my 716, except it is also painted yellow. Look forward to your thoughts. Thanks and best wishes, Charlie

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15719	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 12/3/2001
Subject: Christmas lights resistor

I have a string of very small Christmas lights operating on 120 volts. I want to cut the brightness by 25 to 30%. What size resister would work? What other options are there? Peter Ervin Cumberland, MD

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15720	From: Craig E Manning	Date: 12/3/2001
Subject: Re: Christmas lights resistor

I don't know anything about resistors for something like that, but several years back I wanted to put some lights in a ceramic village I had and the average all white strings of lights were so bright, and in placing 3 sockets inside each building there was a lot of heat building up, plus the ceramic walls were not thick enough and the light shown through. I decided to grab a "cheep" string with 20 lights from Walmart's' and just turned it into a science experiment. Chalked up the cost to experience and took out 2 of every 3 lights and simply wired the lines each side of the sockets back together fully expecting the fuse box to have a hemorrhage when I plugged that puppy back in and it worked great. I went out and bought a longer string so I could accomodate my 30 really small buildings and have been using it ever since. I have the wire covered as it traverses the table surface (this is not in a train layout) with thick white stuffing or batting for quilts and stuff, looks like a deep snow settled in, only trouble is figures and trees don't stand too well, but I suppose I could cut little X's and push them through from underneath. Craig Manning Rolla, MO plumloco@... cmanning@... Peter Ervin <pjervin@herei To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com ntown.net> cc: Subject: [S-Trains] Christmas lights resistor 12/03/01 10:14 AM I have a string of very small Christmas lights operating on 120 volts. I want to cut the brightness by 25 to 30%. What size resister would work? What other options are there? Peter Ervin Cumberland, MD S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15721	From: davedesian@clarkus.com	Date: 12/3/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1221

Dear Scott (imsscott@...): RE: GG1 Derailment. The front and back truck will just touch the main body of the shell. If you look very close, you will see that the shell has a small triangle shape. If you nip the triangle shape back to square the shell at the four corners, the front and back trucks will just miss the main body of the shell. If you use a squaare rail nipper, no one will be the wiser and you will be able to run your GG1 through an AF track S-curve. My layout is all AF track and switches. If you have any questions, I will be happy to help. David

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15722	From: Robichaud, Thomas Jr (Thomas)	Date: 12/3/2001
Subject: Performance of the new River Raisin UP Turbine

Yo; Friday I received a package in the mail. It was my new River Raisin UP Turbine. This was great because Saturday I was heading of to a Greenberg show were our club (The Bristol S-gaugers) had our layout setup to operate. So, bright an early Saturday morning, before anyone got to the show, I took the A unit out, inspected it and then place it to run. Fired up the DC power supply and off it went. Then I took the B-unit out, inspected it, stopped the A-unit, attached the B-unit to the A-unit, fired up the power supply and off they both went. Ran it around a couple of times (layout is 26' x 14'), during which I took the tender out, did the inspection, stopped the loco, attached the tender and fired it back up. The units ran flawless. The unit I purchased was highrail which means it had the huge coupler on the back, so I grabbed a bunch of rolling stock with knuckle couplers and connected them to the loco. A total of 60 cars, from various manufactures, (Flyer, SHS, American Models, Down, Crown...) was connected up. Fired up the power supply and off they went. I ran them for most of the day with the 60 cars. Thing ran like a champ. I just want to say thank you to River Raisin for a fantastic job they did on this unit. And by the way, I will be replacing the knuckle coupler so it looks more prototypical (I run mostly highrail with KDs). Tom Robichaud President of the Bristol S-gauge Club

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15723	From: David	Date: 12/3/2001
Subject: Re: Train Shows, Sunday Dec 2

Jim I cannot place your table by your writing. I've always loved Gilbertsville, just hated the ride up from Delaware. Too many road morons, and there were plenty yesterday!! I was poor this time around after buying a rare car on e-bay for the collection that tapped me out, and only came with $100. But I managed to walk away with $300 worth of stuff one being a rare $200 boxcar I got for $50. Fred.... he's just there to pester and annoy. Then again, I've been his friend for years... :o).

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15724	From: David	Date: 12/3/2001
Subject: Re: Smoke unit leaking

If the bottom of the unit is the leaky part, there was no factory gasket there. Go to your local auto parts store. Locate and buy a small tube of blue silicone gasket maker material. Clean and dry your smoker housing. put a thin film of the "blue" on the bottom edges of your smoker housing. Then replace the cover, and tighten. Unless your screw holes are stripped and not allowing a tight application of the bottom cover, you should obtain a tight seal. Leave set up over night, and your good to go.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15725	From: loubaldi@aol.com	Date: 12/3/2001
Subject: Re: Christmas lights resistor

Since the bulbs are incandescent and the voltage is a 120 volts AC - Buy and install a household dimmer light switch which you can purchase from Home Depot, Lowes or any other hardware store. It will work great and you can dim the lights to any brightness you want. Lou --- In S-Trains@y..., Peter Ervin <pjervin@h...> wrote: > I have a string of very small Christmas lights operating on 120 volts. I > want to cut the brightness by 25 to 30%. What size resister would > work? What other options are there? > > Peter Ervin > Cumberland, MD

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15726	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/3/2001
Subject: Re: Smoke unit leaking

Actually, there WAS a thin factory gasket on the bottom plate, but it usually leaks anyway. The blue goo will work, but I've been told of another repair that sounds quite good too. Clean the outside of the unit with alcohol (no, not the stuff you drink!) or lacquer thinner, then apply fingernail polish to the seam. Let it dry and apply again. Since nail polish is basically lacquer paint, it should seal the joint, and not be effected by the smoke fluid. I will admit I haven't tried this yet, but it sounds like a simple, effective fix. Credit this idea to Ernie R. , not me! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15727	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 12/3/2001
Subject: The catenary is in and it works!

I have finished hanging my two sections of catenary. One piece is 38 feet long. The other starts at a switch and goes 28 feet. Thus I have a Y. The tail is 6 feet long. One leg is 28 feet and the other is 32 feet. These long stretches include a 90 degree turn in the NE corner of the room. The catenary is energized at 0 - 18V DC, I invite anyone who has a pantograph equipped piece of equipment to come run under my wires. The track is all AF with K-Line curves (27 inch radius) so the gauge is good for even scale equipment. Someday I will be able to get to my stored trains. I will get out the North Shore coach and try her. She has a pan on one end and a pole on the other. The wires will be re-adjusted as needed for her pole and then the invitation will be expanded to ALL electrics able to handle my 27 inch radius curves. Thorin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15728	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 12/3/2001
Subject: United Publishers Network

Well folks, here's the scoop on United Publishers Network. In conversation with Kalmbach, they DO NOT represent Kalmbach Publications. In conversation with the Reno, Nevada Better Business Bureau, all they had was bad reports, some claims filed. Oregon Better Business Bureau lists complaint filed and customer complaints unserviced. They of course do not answer the listed phone numbers on their invoices, rather you get a round robin recorder message. On my way to pick up form at local Post Office to file "Mail Fraud" complaint. Jim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15729	From: TED R LARSON	Date: 12/3/2001
Subject: squeal those wheels

My brother sent me an article from: http://www.spikesys.com/Trains/whel_faq.html Railroad Wheel FAQ Christopher Coleman, webville@... 30 May 1997 Based on article by Christopher A. Lee, chrislee@... NOTE: I am not a rail professional but have applied the neccessary physics to the railroad wheel to explain what is happening to the layman. When a train goes around a curve, the outside wheels have further to travel than the inside wheels. This is the same event that occurs in automobiles which requires a differential rather than a solid axle. In the case of railroads a solid axle is necessary for stregnth and simplicity, so another solution was applied. Go to the webpage to see the rest. FASCINATING! Ted Larson Most paved roads lead to trouble; Dirt Roads more likely lead to a fishing creek or a swimming hole.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15730	From: Tom Stolte	Date: 12/3/2001
Subject: Thanks

I would like to thank each and everyone for ordering decals for the month of November for my 20% off sale. This has been the best ever!! Each order will be process in the order I have received them. All my HO sets except for the newest ones are in stock. I still have to print these. As for the N, S, and O scale orders, these will have to be printed also. As I do not print these and keep them in stock. So please be patient, as all mail orders will take some time to fill now. Right now I'm very swamp with orders. Thanks for understanding. --- --- Tom Stolte - Oddballs Decals N, HO, S & O Scale Model Railroad Decals 26550 227th Street; McLouth, Kansas 66054 Phone: 913-727-6649 - oddballdecal@... Web site http://www.oddballsdecals.com/ Subscribe: OddballsDecals-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Missouri Pacific Photos Web Page: http://www.trainweb.org/mopac/ NMRA Member #121756 Subscribe: MOPAC-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15731	From: NotColdEnough@hotmail.com	Date: 12/3/2001
Subject: Re: Christmas lights resistor

Peter, Another method is to put a diode in series with the lights. This will drop the effective voltage by 1/2. I was able to replace one of the two fuses in the plug of some Xmas lights with a diode (took some soldering). John --- In S-Trains@y..., Peter Ervin <pjervin@h...> wrote: > I have a string of very small Christmas lights operating on 120 volts. I > want to cut the brightness by 25 to 30%. What size resister would > work? What other options are there? > > Peter Ervin > Cumberland, MD

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15732	From: roberte613@aol.com	Date: 12/3/2001
Subject: How do I wire?

Hi Group, We're nearing completion of the holiday layout but I have a wiring question I hoped someone could help me with. I found in my parts box a 1202 Electric Track Trip that I think I bought from Giardina a few years back and never used. I've decide to use it to control a crossing gate, but I can't remember how to wire it. I vaguely remember that you're supposed to use insulating pins in the control section of the track but that's about all. Any help? There are three wires coming from the device - Red (fused), Black, and Yellow. Thanks in advance. Robert E. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15733	From: Raul Catta	Date: 12/3/2001
Subject: 21089 smokestack & chrome and re-chrome

I've just bought the American Flyer D2192 ADVANCE/60 Catalog at eBay (if you want to see it, is Item # 1659897307) What confuse me is that on the cover there is a 21089, I suppose it's a Washington but with a smokestack different of the real one produced, is it just for the photo or is it a prototype? Inside is the drawing of the #20655 set as it is also in the 1961-62 catalog with the same smokestack I have the books ILLUSTRATED AMERICAM FLYER "S" GAUGE CHECKLIST (1971) and ILLUSTRATED AMERICAM FLYER CHECKLIST "S" GAUGE 1946 to 1966, 0 & STANDARD GAUGE 1927 to 1937(1975). I also have the excellent American Flyer S Gauge: Illustrated Price Guide & History 1946-2000 (2000) and there is no mention about any difference between locomotive's smokestacks (at page 60 is a photo of a 21098). Also, there is no mention in the Joe Deger book. I want to re-chrome some 960-961-962-963 (they are perfect except the chrome), and the people that do the work ask me what kind of plastic are they made off, I have both the black and the sand color ones. That's because they want to know what temperature they tolerate, they are using the vacuum systems that replate with aluminum (do you know if it is similar to the original?). I'm planing then to re-stamp the AMERICAN FLYER LINES, do you think that they originally use a rubber stamp? I know there are too many questions but I gladly accept any advice you can give me. I'm an American Flyer operator but I'm afraid I'm becoming a collector Thanks Raul Catta Florida 1065 Buenos Aires Argentina

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15734	From: eighthmile@msn.com	Date: 12/3/2001
Subject: Re: Performance of the new River Raisin UP Turbine

Tom Robichaud wrote: >The unit I purchased was highrail which means it had the huge >coupler on the back Tom, what is the minimum turn radius that this loco will negotiate? Just curious. Many thanx. Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15735	From: lawrence Jackman	Date: 12/4/2001
Subject: No subject was specified.

Dade County Youth Fairgrounds loaced at 10901 SW 24th st. Larry

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15736	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 12/4/2001
Subject: Re: 21089 smokestack & chrome and re-chrome

In a message dated 12/3/01 11:19:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, rcatta@... writes: << What confuse me is that on the cover there is a 21089, I suppose it's a Washington but with a smokestack different of the real one produced, is it just for the photo or is it a prototype? Inside is the drawing of the #20655 set as it is also in the 1961-62 catalog with the same smokestack >> At one point in time, Gilbert considered making the Washington with a different style smoke stack (a "cabbage" stack) than the Franklin. The insert to my Washington set has its clearance cut to fit this alternate stack. Beyond a prototype, however, the Washingtons were built with the same stacks as the Franklins -- to save costs no doubt. This is not the only example of a switch in intent as Gilbert initiated production (e.g., the various schemes for the 405 in various 1952 catalogs). RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15737	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 12/4/2001
Subject: S-N-S web site

Steve Blackburn and Sam Rapp have put their S-N-S trains on the www.s-scaletrains.com web site. As you know it's a free service to any S manufacturer, club, layout, etc. They join milepost169. You can go to them directly or go to s-scaletrains.com and click on the S-N-S button. The direct URL is: http://www.s-scaletrains.com/s-n-s S-N-S produces those neat videos (3 now). If anyone can provide snapshots of scenes from the videos and send them as digital files to me, I'd appreciate it. They could then go on the site. Thanks, Roy Hoffman

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15738	From: Christopher Bain	Date: 12/4/2001
Subject: (no subject)

Greetings! We're starting production on a new book on American Flyers, which will be published in the fall of 2002. The author is Jerry Souter who has written many books on the subject of model trains before. Last year we produced a large color book on 100 Years of Lionel, which you can view at http://www.metrobooks.com/transportation/lionel.html <http://www.metrobooks.com/transportation/lionel.html> I need to locate collectors who have decent sized collections and (hopefully) beautiful layouts that we can shoot them on. We'll pay you a small fee for access to your collection and layout, of course, and would like to shoot in December or January. If you can help us out, or have any friends that might be interested, please get in touch with me soon. Thanks, Chris Bain Photography Director Barnes & Noble Publishing 122 Fifth Avenue, 5th Floor New York, NY 10011 cbain@... 212-633-3358 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15739	From: Horn, David	Date: 12/4/2001
Subject: plastic truck equipped AF

At what point did Flyer rolling stock get manufactured with plastic trucks instead of metal - - was it with the 9XXX series, late 6-48XXX cars, and/or a particular year? Thanks. Are they totally junk or OK to operate? Thanks again gang for your help. The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for the addressee(s). BEST! Software, Inc. disclaims any responsibility for the contents of this message, including any attachments. The views expressed in this message are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect the views of the company or any other employee of the company. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, please notify BEST! Software, Inc. immediately by E-mailing Postmaster@... and destroy all copies of this message.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15740	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/4/2001
Subject: Re: plastic truck equipped AF

They came on the 5 digit equipment and are called Pikemaster trucks. I find the cars OK to operate behind (not ahead of) heavier cars. Biggest problem is the little plastic tabs that hold the integral couplers closed tend to be broken off. Actualy I have repaired this in a couple of cases by gluing a brace across the coupler tongue that attaches too the truck, making it into a fixed coupler. I don't have any 5 digit locos except the Casey Jones, which is ugly and sounds tinny but actually runs well. The rule is 6xx for links, 9xx for knuckles and 2xxxx for the plastic pikemaster couplers. Later stuff by Lionel now has several variations. Lionel started numbering with 4 digit numbers, then 5 digit, then with a dash like the 6-48xxx example above. Hard to believr Lionel has been in production for so long now- longer than Gilbert was.. "Horn, David" wrote: > > At what point did Flyer rolling stock get manufactured with plastic trucks > instead of metal - - was it with the 9XXX series, late 6-48XXX cars, and/or > a particular year? Thanks. Are they totally junk or OK to operate? Thanks > again gang for your help. > The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for > the addressee(s). BEST! Software, Inc. disclaims any responsibility for the > contents of this message, including any attachments. The views expressed in > this message are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect the > views of the company or any other employee of the company. If you are not > the intended recipient of this message, please notify BEST! Software, Inc. > immediately by E-mailing Postmaster@... and destroy all copies > of this message. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15741	From: David	Date: 12/4/2001
Subject: Re: plastic truck equipped AF

Gilbert started using the Pike Master all plastic truck on some rolling stock during the later 5 digit numbering series starting in 1960. Those would be 24XXX, 25XXX, and CXXXX numbers. The CXXXX were some odd numbers placed on the cars such as C2009.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15742	From: jimandvickypat@earthlink.net	Date: 12/4/2001
Subject: Christmas Car's

Hi! All. Does anyone have knowledge of a source that one may obtain (One) each of the American Flyer Christmas Car's by "lying-nel". The Christmas Car's I'm interested in are Christmas Box Car (48309) for 1990, the Christmas Gondola w/tree's 48335 for 1998, and the Christmas Box Car (48341) for (1999). Request that all car's be in there original boxes. When I have the (3) above car's my Christmas collection would be complete. Except for the Christmas Engine (48216) and Caboose. I did find one in Denver in 1998. But! The store owner wanted to sell the Christmas train as a set and complete, ie: Engine, Caboose, and several cars, they wouldn't split it up. I did find several Christmas Box Car (48323)'s for 1996 at a local store in San Diego, Ca. "Frank The Trainman". on Park Blvd. Phone # 619-295-1611. Price 44.95. About 5 block's north of Balboa Park. If anyone is interested.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15743	From: Horn, David	Date: 12/4/2001
Subject: Re: plastic truck equipped AF

Oh, so in other words, any car with operating knuckle couplers whether Gilbert AF or Lionel AF will not have plastic trucks -- correct? The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for the addressee(s). BEST! Software, Inc. disclaims any responsibility for the contents of this message, including any attachments. The views expressed in this message are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect the views of the company or any other employee of the company. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, please notify BEST! Software, Inc. immediately by E-mailing Postmaster@... and destroy all copies of this message.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15744	From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com	Date: 12/4/2001
Subject: Bypassing e-unit

Hi all, Two things,1- Is there a way to by-pass these sorry American Flyer e-units until I can afford electronic e-units. I apologize to all the Flyer faithful for my disguttedness. I am so sick of fudging with these things. I just want my trains to run in forward direction anyway. I have 4 engines with crummy e-units, keeping me from running different engines. 2- went to Cincinnati with my portable s-helper layout and one first place in the GATS layout contes. There were 8 layouts, 2 were s-gauge. We got first and the Miami Valeey S-gaugers took 2nd. I also belong to that group. Thanks a bunch. THE TRAINNUT CHRIS [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15745	From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com	Date: 12/4/2001
Subject: Previous post spelling

I apologize for my terrible spelling in my previous post. Disgusted and won. Need to always use my spell check. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15746	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 12/4/2001
Subject: Christmas lights

Peter Ervin sez: >I have a string of very small Christmas lights operating on 120 volts. I >want to cut the brightness by 25 to 30%. What size resister would >work? What other options are there? Peter: How about a standard household dimmer? Get a tabletop model for dimming a lamp, or panel mount a wall style on your control panel. Then tou can select the brightness level and set it as your mood suits. Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15747	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 12/4/2001
Subject: S-Video Vol. III

Wow, What a rush. The cup is almost empty (again). We have 4 of the three volume sets left. We also have 4 copies of Volume III left. If any of you have mailed a payment since last Friday, please notify us because there may not be anything left for you when it gets here. We will reserve "sets," but singles are a first come first served basis. If/when we run out we will notify all of you here and then take reservations to see if there is enough interest to buy another 50 blank tapes. Also special thanks to Roy Hoffman for getting our little enterprise on the WWW. I think we are linked from his site and from Paul Yorke's site. Thanks to the people that supplied video to us from the NASG convention in July. We were both very glad to see some of those "back east" layouts in action. Paul did an especially good job with his digital camcorder. Thanks again to all Steve & Sam .....TCA. NASG. RMHR S-n'-S Trains Boise, Idaho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15748	From: TED R LARSON	Date: 12/5/2001
Subject: die cast

If you are looking for die cast vehicles that are no longer in production, here is a part-time dealer where I've found several "needed" items. Gary Robbins 585-223-8450 (Tuesday evening, Saturday) 315-986-7764 nights and weekends For out of production Racing Champions Mint Editions, check Odd Lots. For current production Racing Champions, Target, ToysRus and Eckerd are the only places where I've found them lately. Nothing at K-Mart or WalMart. Somebody mentioned finding a Johnny Lightning army Jeep at ToysRus. I saw it also. It looks S scale to me! All the JL passenger cars I saw are undersize though. They are not much bigger than the Jeep, although real cars are much larger than a Jeep. Ted Larson Wishing you a Joyous Christmas And a fun non-millenium New Year ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15749	From: af21115	Date: 12/5/2001
Subject: Re: plastic truck equipped AF

That is correct. If a car or loco has the Pike Master plastic truck it will not have a normal knuckle coupler. The Pike Master coupler is basically an extension off the truck bolster that is moulded in the shape of a coupler. It is split down the middle from the back of the knuckle pocket to the bolster. The the tension of the plastic and two tiny tabs keep the sides closed so the cars stay coupled. You can mix regular knuckle equipment with Pike Master in a train with no modifications. The Pike Master cars are much lighter however, and are not good for being placed in the front of or middle of longer trains. Lionel to my knowledge never made any Pike Master equipment. No passenger cars were ever made with Pike master trucks. Thankfully, they decided to go back to a real knuckle truck.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15750	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 12/5/2001
Subject: Call for assistance

I would like to encourage owners of large collections and/or large layouts to contact Chris (CBain@...) from barnes & noble and assist him in his efforts to create a new book that shows folks how fantastic our hobby is. If you know someone that is not on the list please make sure they get the word, most folks love to show their stuff. ===== Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com Photography - Computers - Trains __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping. http://shopping.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15751	From: michael prell	Date: 12/5/2001
Subject: Re: Call for assistance

Paul Too bad it calls for only "large layouts". There are some mighty fine smaller setups that show the love of the hobby equally well. Oh well. Maybe in another edition. Bigger ain't always better. Mike --- Paul Yorke <s_trains@...> wrote: > I would like to encourage owners of large > collections > and/or large layouts to contact Chris (CBain@...) > from barnes & noble and assist him in his efforts to > create a new book that shows folks how fantastic our > hobby is. > If you know someone that is not on the list please > make sure they get the word, most folks love to show > their stuff. > > > > ===== > Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com > Photography - Computers - Trains > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping. > http://shopping.yahoo.com > > S-Trains list sponsor: > http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories > too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > ===== Being angry is the same as holding a hot coal in the palm of your hand. You want to hold on to it in order to throw it at another, but only hurt yourself in doing so. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping. http://shopping.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15752	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 12/5/2001
Subject: Re: Call for assistance

We are taking pictures and submitting them of our 5 X 8 Flyer layout. The layout this yr has found it's way to Bellevue Presbyterian Church in Gap PA. It will only be on view one night for the Children's Christmas Program on Sunday DEC 9th. While it is small, it will feature two operating American Flyer Steam trains, one freight, one passenger, much Plasticville, several operating accessories for LITTLE fingers to control and lots of lights. Louise, the Church Business Manager has suggested we operate by the layout lights, something we readily agreed to do. We ran the trains last night for a Brownie Troop after their meeting in another part of the larger room, they either loved the "smoke" or thought it smelled. What a treat. Their eyes were wide with wonder. Jim Lyle [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15753	From: dwightlehnhoff	Date: 12/5/2001
Subject: Sawmill

It is time for me to decide on my Christmas present-will it be Lionel or MTH for the Sawmill? Have read the variouis comments on the Lionel version. What about the MTH. Thanks Dwight Lehnhoff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15754	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 12/5/2001
Subject: Re: Layout Lighting

Dear Dennis: When I got my basement it came with pull chain sockets every six feet. I promptly went out and purchased LOA (Lights Of America) circular fluorescents. These give off a nice warm glow and work well with normal incandescent. They are cheap. But when you do get a shadow, you get a very odd circle shadow that echoes the bulb! Over the workbench I have an additional 4 foot shop light with 'warm' bulbs. Thorin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15755	From: ronaljac	Date: 12/5/2001
Subject: Test

test

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15756	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 12/5/2001
Subject: Bypassing e-unit

Chris Becker asks: >Is there a way to by-pass these sorry American Flyer e-units >until I can afford electronic e-units. I apologize to all the Flyer faithful >for my disguttedness. I am so sick of fudging with these things. I just want >my trains to run in forward direction anyway. Well, Chris, I am not sure there is a word as "disgustedness", in spite of your later posted correction. I actually thought you DID mean disgutted as in "get these malfunctioning guts out of here!" The temporary answer is simple. Work the unit around into "forward" direction and then lock it with the swing arm. It will never need to cycle again. Electronic reverse units are nice, until they burn out. Then they are junk. Mechanical reverse units can be made to work impeccably. I have disassembled all of mine; cleaned every nook and cranny like new, mostly with isopropyl alcohol; buffed the copper drum with a pencil eraser (Pen eraser is even better. Some stick pens have them. They are gray and more abrasive.); and checked to make sure the frame was not bent or racked. The drum must spin freely, the pawl must swing freely and the gear must advance one full tooth for every activation. I replaced original, worn through fingers with repros and checked for full contact. I smeared a vapor thin layer of Caig's Cailube (formerly Cramolin Paste) on the finger tips (go to www.caig.com ) as it dramatically improves conductivity while lubricating. I lubed all the mechanical parts with powdered graphite and I keep them free of all oils. I'm a regular train doctor, ain't I? But I'm a tender thumper no more. Two to go (over switches and crossovers and across blocks without cycling), Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15757	From: davedesian@clarkus.com	Date: 12/5/2001
Subject: By passing e-unit

The method that I have used is the bridge rectifier with DC on the rails. This method has been written up in many books. Once you use this method, you will not go to the electronic e-units. you will save money and love your trains even more. What's there not the like? David

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15758	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 12/5/2001
Subject: Re: Layout Lighting

Thorin, Beware the U-V rays emitted by flourescent lamps. For that reason, there are NO flourescent lights in the display area of The National Toy Train Museum (NTTM). You may be able to buy filter tubes to cut U-V emission. U-V's fade the paint on the trains. Jim Lyle [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15759	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/5/2001
Subject: Re: plastic truck equipped AF

that sounds right, except that the Pikemaster couplers actualy "operate" to couple and uncouple. They auto couple together anywhere and uncouple over a Pikemaster uncoupler. "Horn, David" wrote: > > Oh, so in other words, any car with operating knuckle couplers whether > Gilbert AF or Lionel AF will not have plastic trucks -- correct? > > The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for > the addressee(s). BEST! Software, Inc. disclaims any responsibility for the > contents of this message, including any attachments. The views expressed in > this message are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect the > views of the company or any other employee of the company. If you are not > the intended recipient of this message, please notify BEST! Software, Inc. > immediately by E-mailing Postmaster@... and destroy all copies > of this message. -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15760	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/5/2001
Subject: Re: Bypassing e-unit

Good advice if the fingers are OK. Otherwise, I recommend running on DC. See Paul York's website for how to wire a motor for DC polarity reverse. Then build or buy a DC supply of sufficient amperage (>2 amps/Flyer train). Option 2: Bypass by wiring directly from the tender trucks to the motor- one brush and one field connection and run on AC with no reverse. Then hook the other brush and field connection together. Leave smoke and headlight wired as is. If it runs backwards switch the leads to the field or the brushes. Chris Zizzo wrote: > > Chris Becker asks: > >Is there a way to by-pass these sorry American Flyer e-units > >until I can afford electronic e-units. I apologize to all the Flyer > faithful > >for my disguttedness. I am so sick of fudging with these things. I just > want > >my trains to run in forward direction anyway. > > Well, Chris, I am not sure there is a word as "disgustedness", in spite of > your later posted correction. I actually thought you DID mean disgutted as > in "get these malfunctioning guts out of here!" > > The temporary answer is simple. Work the unit around into "forward" > direction and then lock it with the swing arm. It will never need to cycle > again. > > Electronic reverse units are nice, until they burn out. Then they are junk. > Mechanical reverse units can be made to work impeccably. I have > disassembled all of mine; cleaned every nook and cranny like new, mostly > with isopropyl alcohol; buffed the copper drum with a pencil eraser (Pen > eraser is even better. Some stick pens have them. They are gray and more > abrasive.); and checked to make sure the frame was not bent or racked. The > drum must spin freely, the pawl must swing freely and the gear must advance > one full tooth for every activation. I replaced original, worn through > fingers with repros and checked for full contact. I smeared a vapor thin > layer of Caig's Cailube (formerly Cramolin Paste) on the finger tips (go to > www.caig.com ) as it dramatically improves conductivity while lubricating. > I lubed all the mechanical parts with powdered graphite and I keep them free > of all oils. I'm a regular train doctor, ain't I? > > But I'm a tender thumper no more. > > Two to go (over switches and crossovers and across blocks without cycling), > > Chris Zizzo > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15761	From: Bente Velapoldi	Date: 12/5/2001
Subject: Turnouts

Hi: I am in the process of building some code 125 switches (turnouts for the other half). Any good pictures available to show the usual alignment of ties under the track? for example, where do the ties begin to diverge to be perpendicular to each of the track directions? etc. Will check out the AM and SHS track websites. Anything else? Tx. Rance Velapoldi

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15762	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 12/5/2001
Subject: Re: Bypassing e-unit

Yes, Chuck, but I was writing about making the reverse unit totally fumctional. Bypasses are temporary affairs. New fingers, man! It's the best way to go. Chris Zizzo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Smith" <cesmith@...> To: "Chris Zizzo" <busyboy@...> Cc: <Cbtrainnut1@...>; "slist" <s-trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 4:13 PM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Bypassing e-unit > Good advice if the fingers are OK. > Otherwise, I recommend running on DC. See Paul York's website for how > to wire a motor for DC polarity reverse. Then build or buy a DC supply > of sufficient amperage (>2 amps/Flyer train). > Option 2: Bypass by wiring directly from the tender trucks to the > motor- one brush and one field connection and run on AC with no > reverse. Then hook the other brush and field connection together. > Leave smoke and headlight wired as is. If it runs backwards switch the > leads to the field or the brushes. > > Chris Zizzo wrote: > > > > Chris Becker asks: > > >Is there a way to by-pass these sorry American Flyer e-units > > >until I can afford electronic e-units. I apologize to all the Flyer > > faithful > > >for my disguttedness. I am so sick of fudging with these things. I just > > want > > >my trains to run in forward direction anyway. > > > > Well, Chris, I am not sure there is a word as "disgustedness", in spite of > > your later posted correction. I actually thought you DID mean disgutted as > > in "get these malfunctioning guts out of here!" > > > > The temporary answer is simple. Work the unit around into "forward" > > direction and then lock it with the swing arm. It will never need to cycle > > again. > > > > Electronic reverse units are nice, until they burn out. Then they are junk. > > Mechanical reverse units can be made to work impeccably. I have > > disassembled all of mine; cleaned every nook and cranny like new, mostly > > with isopropyl alcohol; buffed the copper drum with a pencil eraser (Pen > > eraser is even better. Some stick pens have them. They are gray and more > > abrasive.); and checked to make sure the frame was not bent or racked. The > > drum must spin freely, the pawl must swing freely and the gear must advance > > one full tooth for every activation. I replaced original, worn through > > fingers with repros and checked for full contact. I smeared a vapor thin > > layer of Caig's Cailube (formerly Cramolin Paste) on the finger tips (go to > > www.caig.com ) as it dramatically improves conductivity while lubricating. > > I lubed all the mechanical parts with powdered graphite and I keep them free > > of all oils. I'm a regular train doctor, ain't I? > > > > But I'm a tender thumper no more. > > > > Two to go (over switches and crossovers and across blocks without cycling), > > > > Chris Zizzo > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > -- > Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) > and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith > > "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool > than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15763	From: Horn, David	Date: 12/5/2001
Subject: Re: plastic truck equipped AF

OK, how 'bout -- all cars with hinged operating couplers do not have plastic trucks. Thereby giving "credit" to the action created by the slot in some PM couplers as opposed to the solid ones. The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for the addressee(s). BEST! Software, Inc. disclaims any responsibility for the contents of this message, including any attachments. The views expressed in this message are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect the views of the company or any other employee of the company. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, please notify BEST! Software, Inc. immediately by E-mailing Postmaster@... and destroy all copies of this message.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15764	From: Don Thompson	Date: 12/5/2001
Subject: Re: Turnouts

Dear Rance, Bill Banta has some neat laser cut tie beds for switches. Have you considered them? For orders, call 800-653-8214 or email billbwks@... Don T. Bente Velapoldi wrote: > Hi: > I am in the process of building some code 125 switches (turnouts for the > other half). Any good pictures available to show the usual alignment of > ties under the track? for example, where do the ties begin to diverge > to be perpendicular to each of the track directions? etc. Will check > out the AM and SHS track websites. Anything else? > Tx. > Rance Velapoldi > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15765	From: Bente Velapoldi	Date: 12/6/2001
Subject: e-bay item

Hi all: Has anyone used the following software package "advertised" on e-bay? ~SMART SOFTWARE FOR *MODEL TRAIN* COLLECTORS! Item # 1673027571 What are your experiences if so. Tx. Rance

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15766	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 12/6/2001
Subject: DON'S 2002 CATALOG

Not since the days of A.C. Gilbert himself have I seen such well laid out and interesting model train catalogs. Thank you Don. I hope you outsell Lionel and MTH. If only I had time to redo my layout in Don's flex track. Staying on the NPSG branchline of NASG track, Glenn NASG Secretary http://www.jesusiscoming.com ><///> ><///> ><///> ><///> ><///> Message: 1 Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 16:20:14 -0600 From: " Rich Gajnak" <rgajnak@...> Subject: Re: 2002 Catalogs John Degnan wrote: I think there are subliminal messages in it, though... 'cause I can't look at it without wanting to buy everything! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Don plans it that way. Be seeing you... Rich G.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15767	From: Alan C Udy	Date: 12/6/2001
Subject: Ties for turnouts

The question was asked: "I am in the process of building some code 125 switches (turnouts for the other half). Any good pictures available to show the usual alignment of ties under the track? for example, where do the ties begin to diverge to be perpendicular to each of the track directions? etc. Will check out the AM and SHS track websites. Anything else?" Beg or borrow a good HO track switch, place it on the glass of a photocopier, and enlarge by 136%. Do both right and left hand. Good luck. Alan Udy, RMHRS Idaho Falls, Idaho ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15768	From: yazfacts	Date: 12/6/2001
Subject: M.T.H. 787 Log Loader........

Dear Group, Back in October I visited the M.T.H. booth at "York" and asked when we can expect their version of the Gilbert #787 Log Loader.They told me in about six weeks.That was on October 19th,almost two months ago.Has anyone hear about a release date yet ?? Please post any and all answers.Thanks as always.......Bob S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15769	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 12/6/2001
Subject: Whistling tenders

Question for the group. On ebay today, there is a diecast 302 with a tender with a whistle unit in it like the one in a 295 or 336. I recently got a 290 with the same tender. The shells on my 290 and this 302 look alike and look like what is supposed to be on the 290. From looking at the 290 I got, it doesn't appear that the tender was switched. Knowing how Gilbert used what they had when they needed something to go out, do you think these could both be factory jobs? Seems a bit unlikely given the extra cost of the whistle in the tender for the low priced 290 or 302, but who knows? Roger Petrella Franktown, CO

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15770	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 12/6/2001
Subject: Train donations

I need the name and address of the gentleman collecting trains for kids.Thanks Keith _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15771	From: david_garber2000	Date: 12/6/2001
Subject: 15769 Whistle tender

Also not sure if link couplers came with a sliding shoe like the Kc.6 wheel cast trucks had? LOOKS GOOD AND SHOULD WORK WELL .

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15772	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 12/6/2001
Subject: Re: Whistling tenders

In a message dated 12/6/01 1:45:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, rogerpjr@... writes: << On ebay today, there is a diecast 302 with a tender with a whistle unit in it like the one in a 295 or 336. I recently got a 290 with the same tender. The shells on my 290 and this 302 look alike and look like what is supposed to be on the 290. >> No 302s or 290s ever came from the factory with air chime whistles. If such pieces appear they are most emphatically due to a tender switch, which is easy to perform. The 290s came with the same sheet metal tender (allowing for sheet metal truck variations) as the single piece die cast 302s and 300ACs of the same period (1950 - 51). Hope this helps. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15773	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/6/2001
Subject: Re: Whistling tenders

Pure speculation on my part, but the early catalogs listed a 305 with whistle, but it was never produced. A dealer might have a good customer that he/she wanted to keep happy, so "created" these locos using replacement parts. Just an idea! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15774	From: Scott Brown	Date: 12/6/2001
Subject: $125 for a 302 AC

Someone care to explain this one to me ? An ebay auction for a 302 AC with a buy it now price of ONLY $125.00 What is going on here ? http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1671334944 Scott Brown Atlantic Coast S Gaugers Washington & Old Dominion Division [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15775	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/6/2001
Subject: Don't you just love eBay's logic?

Hi all, I recently lost the bidding on some AF Heavy weight pass. cars. I got the usual "Unfortunately you lost. . . ." posting giving me the suggestion to bid on some similar items: Heavy weight Shirt, Heavy weight Matchbox truck, heavy weight tights (3 pair!). Gee. . . . S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15776	From: bellokdaka@webtv.net	Date: 12/6/2001
Subject: Re: $125 for a 302 AC

Welcome to eBay Scott, where everything listed is a classic. Tell you what if you respond to this in the next 24 hours I will let go of a 336 in EX+ for only $5000.00 and I'll pay for shipping and insurance. Oh Boy! Trains!............Herky 1950 Obie Bell

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15777	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 12/6/2001
Subject: SD60's

Hi guys, Pictures of the SD60's are up on American Models' web site. http://americanmodels.com/locos/sd-60.html Rich G. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15778	From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT	Date: 12/6/2001
Subject: Re: Don't you just love eBay's logic?

SO....PUT ON YOUR TIGHTS, AND YOUR SHIRT, AND GO PLAY IN THE DIRT WITH YOUR MATCHBOX!!!!!!!! BOB ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 4:53 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Don't you just love eBay's logic? > Hi all, > I recently lost the bidding on some AF Heavy weight pass. cars. I got > the usual "Unfortunately you lost. . . ." posting giving me the suggestion > to bid on some similar items: Heavy weight Shirt, Heavy weight Matchbox > truck, heavy weight tights (3 pair!). > Gee. . . . > S' > David D. > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15779	From: af21115	Date: 12/6/2001
Subject: Re: Whistling tenders

I doubt that it is factory, but you never know. The only way to tell is to look at it in hand. I've installed Air Chimes in Atlantics before using original parts.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15780	From: Howard Sheffield	Date: 12/6/2001
Subject: Re: SD60's

Also guys-- They run really smooth and pull great!!! Howard Howard' S Trains > >Hi guys, > >Pictures of the SD60's are up on American Models' >web site. > >http://americanmodels.com/locos/sd-60.html > > > >Rich G. > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > _______________________________________________________________________ Free Domain Name Registration with Web Hosting at Lanset Communications. 56k Dialup, Web Design, and Colocation at http://www.lanset.net

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15781	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 12/6/2001
Subject: Re: Don't you just love eBay's logic?

Gee Dave, will those tights go with the Hawaiian shirt? Not sure I'd want to see though. Roger Petrella Franktown, CO David Dewey wrote: > Hi all, > I recently lost the bidding on some AF Heavy weight pass. cars. I got > the usual "Unfortunately you lost. . . ." posting giving me the suggestion > to bid on some similar items: Heavy weight Shirt, Heavy weight Matchbox > truck, heavy weight tights (3 pair!). > Gee. . . . > S' > David D. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15782	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 12/6/2001
Subject: Re: Whistling tenders

In a message dated 12/6/01 7:11:30 PM, Dave0616@... writes: << I doubt that it is factory, but you never know. The only way to tell is to look at it in hand. >> Well, yes. I'm afraid, however, that the only way that one could be certain about factory originality would be if you were the one to break the seal on the wrap of a mint 302 and found it had a 295 tender. This swap is just too easy to do. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15783	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 12/6/2001
Subject: Holiday Suggestions

Here are some perfect presents for the S gauge fanatic in your house. All items available for immediate shipping. [Pass this on to your wife with spouse/parents/etc. with items circled] Circus Car #1 w/Vans $49.95 plus $5 Priority Mail For a picture, see www.trainweb.org/s-trains/photos/circus_car1.jpg Specify original Link Coupler (LC) trucks or reproduction Knuckle Coupler (KC) trucks Steve Blackburn's videos: All 3 volumes available $12 each plus $3 shipping & handling (add $1 S&H for for each additional video) Master Card or Visa accepted Joe ===== Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,300 part lines American Models ## S-Helper Service ## Gilbert Rerpoductions Featuring Parts by Toy Trains International joestrainrepair@... Master Card/Visa __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15784	From: Scott Brown	Date: 12/6/2001
Subject: Re: $125 for a 302 AC

Yeah, my pet peeve used to be the K Line repair manual. I used to email the bidders when the price started to get above $35. and let them know how to buy it from the various dealers on this list for less. One poor sap paid $180. for one of those books. I missed the auction until it was too late. I've been watching Marty's trains in NY selling Bob Tufts book for a starting bid of $10 more than anyone can buy it direct. Marty's always seems to have ebay auctions that have a high starting price and you can usually get it for less elsewhere. Lots of crazy prices now on ebay. I've been buying there for several years and you have to know what things are worth or you will get taken. I just couldn't believe the 302 AC for $125. LOL Scott Brown ----- Original Message ----- From: <bellokdaka@...> To: "Scott Brown" <sbrown56@...>; <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 5:57 PM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] $125 for a 302 AC > Welcome to eBay Scott, where everything listed is a classic. Tell you > what if you respond to this in the next 24 hours I will let go of a 336 > in EX+ for only $5000.00 and I'll pay for shipping and insurance. > Oh Boy! Trains!............Herky 1950 > > Obie Bell > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15785	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 12/6/2001
Subject: 3 Volume Video Sets.

Just a note to all of you that have sent payment for the three videos that they will ship tomorrow 12/7. The following names are among those being shipped to. James Dean, Lee Barnett, Butch Holtgrieve, Gil Swanson, Larry Piro, Bill Fraley, David Baker, Walt Danylak, Mark Koenig, David Martens, Brian Walker, Howard Sheffield, Erika Remmy, Don Munsey, David Poulin. Sorry I used up so much space on this but I didn't have email addrersses on many of these people. Thanks All....Steve & SAm...S-n'-S Trains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15786	From: Scott Brown	Date: 12/6/2001
Subject: 302 AC

Here is the response I got from the seller : I was not aware that I could not ask any price I want. You never know what some lucky bidder might pay. I guess it got your attention. I do see my reserve has been met on this item. By the way this is a dicast engine,not plastic. Thanks Ray Scott Brown [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15787	From: Irving Washington	Date: 12/6/2001
Subject: Re: $125 for a 302 AC

I'm not getting why $125 for a "buy it now" price is so out of line. You would normally want to choose a price that's higher than what you expect the bidding to reach. He didn't make that the minimum or the reserve, so why the problem? _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15788	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 12/6/2001
Subject: Re: $125 for a 302 AC

Check to see what else the guy is selling. Most likely he is a dealer in just about anything and uses the WAG method (wild ass guess) for fixing a price. Once in awhile these guys greatly undervalue an item, but more often they have second rate merchandise and don't know enough about it to know that. As always, buyer beware!! At 04:57 PM 12/6/01 -0600, you wrote: >Welcome to eBay Scott, where everything listed is a classic. Tell you >what if you respond to this in the next 24 hours I will let go of a 336 >in EX+ for only $5000.00 and I'll pay for shipping and insurance. >Oh Boy! Trains!............Herky 1950 > > Obie Bell > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to >s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ _---_---_---______--__--___+-----+||] [||####### #####|______||_____ || UNION PACIFIC __| [][] |__ || ||_______________________/ _| UP |___\_|| | ||| | | | | | | / | 6212 # ||| | []|=|==================o=====o==================|=|[] /|-||(0)|=|(0)|=|(O) |_________| (0)|=|(0)|=|(O)||-|\ ======================================================== [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15789	From: Bente Velapoldi	Date: 12/7/2001
Subject: Switches

Hi all: Thanks to all of you who answered. I definitely have the info I need - Dick Karnes those pictures were great, and I also checked Whiteoak, AM, SHS, etc. pictures on their websites and in the groups area. All the pictures answered the question about when the ties start to "go their own way" (perpendicular to specific route of track they are under. Guess I can start glueing ties down to homemade wooden "bed" and then laying the rails. no more excuses to think about! Rance

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15790	From: af21115	Date: 12/7/2001
Subject: Advertisements

HEY!!! Whats with these PITA advertisements in the middle of every post??? This SPAM best dissapear before I do!! What a nuisance...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15791	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 12/7/2001
Subject: Re: Person Collecting Trains for Needy Kids

Keith, The person collecting the trains for kids on behalf of the Atlantic Coast S Gaugers is Pete Hildenbrand. His e-mail address is djandpete@..., his telephone number is 704/541-6443, and his address is 11507 April Day Lane, Charlotte, NC 28226. Thanks for your help in this effort. ===== Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,300 part lines American Models ## S-Helper Service ## Gilbert Rerpoductions Featuring Parts by Toy Trains International joestrainrepair@... Master Card/Visa __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15792	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 12/7/2001
Subject: Re: S-Helper 2002 catalog

Holy Mackrel, where's mine? Sounds like the good old days out there....Steve

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15793	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 12/7/2001
Subject: TTOS tank car.

For those who ordered: The 2001 TTOS AF tank cars are arriving at last. They did a nice job -- it is quite good looking, actually. As is often the case, the Flyonel society cars are nicer than the cataloged rolling stock. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15794	From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com	Date: 12/7/2001
Subject: BY-PASSING e-unit

Thanks to everyone responding to the e-unit doilema. I want to BY-PASS because I am tired of changing out finger, fighting to get the unit in forward to lock it out. All of my engines are locked out in the forward position. They still don't want to run. Thus my plea to BY-Pass the e-unit.I'm not totally stupid when it comes to my trains. I just want to run them and by-passing the e-unit is the way to go in my opinion. Get rid of the piece of crap totally. I'm off work right now do to surgeries on my hands. Funds are limited. So by-passing(this would be going around the e-unit, not through it) is the best and most inexspensive way to go. I have 7 engines lockrd out and 3 are still going. Very frustrating. But I will eventually replace with electronic e-units. I will look for the diagram to by-pass the e-unit. Someone stated it was online at one of Paul sites but I haven't found it yet. Thanks again for all the wisdom passed on! THE TRAINNUT CHRIS [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15795	From: af21115	Date: 12/7/2001
Subject: Re: BY-PASSING e-unit

Ok Chris, thats easy enough. Here is the least expensive process. Take off the tender shell. Unsolder all leads to the reverse unit, remove its mounting screws and put in your spare parts box. You now have a chassis with two black leads one coming off each truck rivet. You also have a 4 wire lead coming back from the loco either plug type or direct connect. If the loco has a smoker, you will want to disconnect one lead on the loco and run a sperate 5th lead from it to the tender. Connect that lead to either black lead coming off the trucks. Find which of the other leads coming back contain the connection to the other side of the smoker. This must be connected to the other black lead from the other truck. Look to see where that other smoker lead connects to, if its a brush, then you need to take the other brush lead coming back and tie it off to either lead coming from the field. The other field lead goes to the truck you connected the 5th wire to for the other side of the smoker. Now, if the loco runs in the correct direction, put electrical tape on your connections to insualte them and replace your shells and your set to go. If the loco runs backwards swap the field leads.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15796	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 12/7/2001
Subject: Looking for Gerry Dobbs

Gerry, Can't seem to find your phone number anywhere in my mess. Can you contact me off list with your phone number as I'd like to call you about some layout issues. Roger Petrella Franktown, CO

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15797	From: Scott Holm	Date: 12/7/2001
Subject: Electromagnetic Crane 583 vs 583A

I saw this item on Ebay; It's a brass tray to hold the scrap iron for an electromagnetic crane. I always wondered what should be used to hold the iron. Brass makes perfect sense, being non-magnetic. I never thought of that! I'm going to have to make one now, since the auction for it is now over $42! http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1671656825 What I really want to know is which one works better, the 583 or the 583A? I have the 583 which has one button and a reversing unit. I understand that the 583A doesn't have a reversing unit, but has a two button controller. Does a push of one button energize the electromagnet and start the crane moving? And then do you let go of the button to stop the movement and drop the load? And then does pushing the other button swing the crane back? Can one be converted to the other? How does the 583A reverse without a reversing unit; does it have two coils? Does anyone know the dimensions for the brass tray? Does anybody have any modifications to the crane to make it work better? One problem I see is that it can be easily over-rotated or rotated in the wrong direction. Another nice idea would be to have a seperate button for activating the magnet; It's a little tricky to operate it with one button. A couple of issues back in CTT there was an article or letter about modifying a length of track so that it would run through the crane support. Has anybody tried that? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15798	From: THOMAS C. FISHER	Date: 12/7/2001
Subject: Re: Electromagnetic Crane 583 vs 583A

Good series of questions ! I'll be watching to see what sort of anwers get generated, I've always thought the crane was such a neat acc'y......I had two of the 583's and other than a sometimes sticky reverse unit they worked well. My wish is that the magnet could be raised independent of the crane's swing movement, as I think Lionel's could. But I think Gilbert was looking for simplicity and they certainly got it with their version. BTW, did you know that the bearing cap/brush holder ass'y for them is the same piece that was used in their pre-war vertical motored HO Hudson's ? If I remember right, I had a brass tray and it was the same size as the steel ones. Smitty ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Holm <imsscott@...> To: s-trains <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 3:47 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Electromagnetic Crane 583 vs 583A > I saw this item on Ebay; It's a brass tray to hold the scrap iron for > an electromagnetic crane. I always wondered what should be used to hold > the iron. Brass makes perfect sense, being non-magnetic. I never > thought of that! I'm going to have to make one now, since the auction > for it is now over $42! > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1671656825 > > What I really want to know is which one works better, the 583 or the > 583A? I have the 583 which has one button and a reversing unit. I > understand that the 583A doesn't have a reversing unit, but has a two > button controller. Does a push of one button energize the electromagnet > and start the crane moving? And then do you let go of the button to > stop the movement and drop the load? And then does pushing the other > button swing the crane back? Can one be converted to the other? How > does the 583A reverse without a reversing unit; does it have two coils? > > Does anyone know the dimensions for the brass tray? > > Does anybody have any modifications to the crane to make it work > better? One problem I see is that it can be easily over-rotated or > rotated in the wrong direction. Another nice idea would be to have a > seperate button for activating the magnet; It's a little tricky to > operate it with one button. A couple of issues back in CTT there was an > article or letter about modifying a length of track so that it would > run through the crane support. Has anybody tried that? > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send your FREE holiday greetings online! > http://greetings.yahoo.com > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15799	From: samusvulgaris	Date: 12/7/2001
Subject: AF Steamer Problems

My trains are not running satisfactorily. I would appreciate any suggestions to correct the problem. Two loops of track around Christmas tree. Tracks are laid directly on carpet. There are no switches or crossovers. One loop (12 curved, 8 straight) are original AF with AF roadbed. The other loop (12 curved, 4 straight – AF radius) is recently- purchased S-Trax from S-Helper. Transformers are AF 8B therefore, this is an AC system. AF steam engines spark at tender wheels and spring-loaded pickups (where applicable). Some of the AF locos are 326, 316, 283, 342AC. The sparking seems to be dependent on direction, i. e., sparking occurs on whichever set of tender wheels happens to be on the outside rail. I have cleaned the track and tender wheel sets numerous times. I have checked gauging of the tender wheels (just shy of 7/8 inch). The problem does not occur with an American Flyer/Lionel GP-9 nor an American Models GG1. Please help! Thanks, Sam

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15800	From: af21115	Date: 12/7/2001
Subject: Re: Electromagnetic Crane 583 vs 583A

Boy, that seller found himself a real piegeon. Those trays are all over for about $15 to $20, both types. To answer some of your questions.... Its a matter of preference on which is better. If you like cycling the button a lot then the 583 is just fine. The 583A is a bit easier to operate for many. It has a double wound field just like the coal loaders. One side of the button is wired to one side of the field, and the other button to the other side of the field. Inside the button. If its adjusted correctly, its just like the coal loaders. You have two sets of contacts under the buttons. If you press the button lightly, you get contact enough to run the motor but not the magnet. Press the button all the way down and you get the motor and magnet. So in a way you have good control over the movement of the crane cab as well as the magnet. Stopping the movement is up to the operator, however, if you keep pushing the button the string will run out and hang the cab up and it will stop moving. You cannot easily convert one to the other as they have two different types of motors. I find a shortcoming with the 583 is that it uses a cast brush plate, and it deteriorates and crumbles. No one makes them so when yours fails your Out O Luck. You can unconnect the correct orignal control and use seperate buttons for the movements and the magnet operation if you want. The article you refer to was where someone removed the center ties on a pice of straight track and then it fit over the base. A little caution so the rails do not touch the base and casue a short and its an easy set up to do. You can only fit gondolas or flats on that spur to go under the crane as other freights are too tall. Hope this gives you some answers you need....

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15801	From: John Harvey	Date: 12/7/2001
Subject: Track Gauge for American Flyer Size Rail

About twenty years ago I acquired a very large S gauge hi-rail layout from the early 1950's which has hand laid brass rail and hand made switches. This was quite a find for Australia! Unfortunately it was constructed on very thin plywood which has been disintegrating ever since. I would like to reconstruct a portion of this layout on a new table and roadbed reusing the original brass rail which is approximately the same size and height as the rail on original AF track. My question: Does any one know of a commercially available track gauge that suits AF size rail or how to construct one? Regards, John Harvey brigadie@... *************************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential, and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the original recipient, any use, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this email is strictly prohibited. If you received this email in error, please notify the sender. This message has been scanned for viruses by the Dragnet CleanMail Service. *************************************************************************** [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15802	From: Carl Tuveson	Date: 12/7/2001
Subject: Re: AF Steamer Problems

Some sparking of these older steam locos is normal. The reason the GG-1 and GP-9 don't spark is they both use a Permanent Magnet motor that does not draw much current. Typically less than an amp. The AF locos use universal series wound AC motors and can draw between 1.5 to 3 amps depending on the load. Since you say that all of the AC locos are sparking it seems likely there is not a problem other than dirt or old lubrication. Be sure you clean out the old grease and re-lube the engines. If you have access to an AC ammeter, that will tell you if things are operating in a normal range. Carl -----Original Message----- From: samusvulgaris [mailto:samusvulgaris@...] Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 8:19 PM To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [S-Trains] AF Steamer Problems My trains are not running satisfactorily. I would appreciate any suggestions to correct the problem. Two loops of track around Christmas tree. Tracks are laid directly on carpet. There are no switches or crossovers. One loop (12 curved, 8 straight) are original AF with AF roadbed. The other loop (12 curved, 4 straight - AF radius) is recently- purchased S-Trax from S-Helper. Transformers are AF 8B therefore, this is an AC system. AF steam engines spark at tender wheels and spring-loaded pickups (where applicable). Some of the AF locos are 326, 316, 283, 342AC. The sparking seems to be dependent on direction, i. e., sparking occurs on whichever set of tender wheels happens to be on the outside rail. I have cleaned the track and tender wheel sets numerous times. I have checked gauging of the tender wheels (just shy of 7/8 inch). The problem does not occur with an American Flyer/Lionel GP-9 nor an American Models GG1. Please help! Thanks, Sam S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15803	From: Robert E. Yablonski	Date: 12/7/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1230

Message: 1 Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 16:20:14 -0600 From: " Rich Gajnak" <rgajnak@...> Subject: Re: 2002 Catalogs John Degnan wrote: I think there are subliminal messages in it, though... 'cause I can't look at it without wanting to buy everything! ------------------------------------------------------------------- Don plans it that way. Be seeing you... Rich G. I think I have! R. Yablonski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15804	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/7/2001
Subject: Re: AF Steamer Problems

You didn't mention whether the wheels are shiny clean or not. They need to be. Another reason an AM doesn't spark much is they use more wheels so contact is better. With only 2 wheels on each side picking up it's important to keep them clean. It helps to burnish them after cleaning. Avoid coarse grit sandpaper. A bright boy track cleaning tool is good for cleaning tender wheels. Some will disagree, but a few drops of smoke oil on each rail of a loop will usually prevent a lot or all of the sparking for me. Some people like Wahl's hair clipper oil. Light oil eeps oxygen away from the contact point of the wheel to avoid arcing and the associated pitting, and the very low viscosity oil doesn't prevent pickup. However, use too much or for too long and you have a gunky mess you need to clean up. Carl Tuveson wrote: > > Some sparking of these older steam locos is normal. The reason the GG-1 and > GP-9 don't spark is they both use a Permanent Magnet motor that does not > draw much current. Typically less than an amp. The AF locos use universal > series wound AC motors and can draw between 1.5 to 3 amps depending on the > load. Since you say that all of the AC locos are sparking it seems likely > there is not a problem other than dirt or old lubrication. Be sure you clean > out the old grease and re-lube the engines. If you have access to an AC > ammeter, that will tell you if things are operating in a normal range. > > Carl > > -----Original Message----- > From: samusvulgaris [mailto:samusvulgaris@...] > Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 8:19 PM > To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [S-Trains] AF Steamer Problems > > My trains are not running satisfactorily. I would appreciate any > suggestions to correct the problem. > > Two loops of track around Christmas tree. Tracks are laid directly > on carpet. There are no switches or crossovers. One loop (12 > curved, 8 straight) are original AF with AF roadbed. The other loop > (12 curved, 4 straight - AF radius) is recently- purchased > S-Trax from S-Helper. Transformers are AF 8B therefore, this is an > AC system. > > AF steam engines spark at tender wheels and spring-loaded pickups > (where applicable). Some of the AF locos are 326, 316, 283, 342AC. > The sparking seems to be dependent on direction, i. e., sparking > occurs on whichever set of tender wheels happens to be on the outside > rail. I have cleaned the track and tender wheel sets numerous times. > I have checked gauging of the tender wheels (just shy of 7/8 inch). > > The problem does not occur with an American Flyer/Lionel GP-9 nor an > American Models GG1. > > Please help! Thanks, Sam > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15805	From: lawrence Jackman	Date: 12/7/2001
Subject: Re: Electromagnetic Crane 583 vs 583A

Side triva!!!! Brass is magnetic if you know how to do it Thank you Larry Jackman Scott Holm wrote: >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15806	From: Charlie&Edith	Date: 12/7/2001
Subject: Dimensions,brass tray

These measurements come from the brass tray for my 716 coal unloading car. Length..6", width..4", depth..1/4". I used a scrap piece of aluminum siding to make the tray for the Crane and gave it a couple of coats of True Value Hardware Wedgewood Blue. This color approximates the original color and the tray works fine with the crane. Finding a quantity of scrap metal has been a more difficult project. Perhaps someone from the group could help? Good luck with your project. Charlie

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15807	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/8/2001
Subject: Re: Electromagnetic Crane 583 vs 583A

Hi All, I can't resist responding to a little post about brass being magnetic. I beg to differ. Good brass is not magnetic. If you have 'brass' that is magnetic, it is cheap brass with a lot of tin (I think) in it. I used to collect scrap metal (as a hobby) for salvage. I always carried a magnet with me. I was versed in my "ABC's" - Aluminum, Brass and Copper - non of which are magnetic. Any metal that wouldn't attract a magnet would attract me. The money I collected from my little salvage was used to fund IRA accounts for my retirement (also had other means). I must have all-in-all been successful, 'cuz I retired at age 51! BTW, good stainless steel is also not magnetic. The operative word here is 'good'. Cheap stainless steel is another (form of) matter. Regards, Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: "lawrence Jackman" <ljack70117@...> To: "Scott Holm" <imsscott@...> Cc: "s-trains" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 11:44 PM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Electromagnetic Crane 583 vs 583A > Side triva!!!! Brass is magnetic if you know how to do it > Thank you > Larry Jackman > > Scott Holm wrote: > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15808	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 12/8/2001
Subject: Wheels a Sparking

I realize this doesn't help you folks with existing layouts or huge caches of Flyer track, but I've noticed that old Flyer has less tendency to spark on the newer track available from American Models and S Helper Service. Of course, sparking wheels and the ozone it creates is one of the boyhood charms associated with the old Flyer (and Lionel) trains. Be seeing you... Rich G. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15809	From: TED R LARSON	Date: 12/8/2001
Subject: Fw: PacRail >> CN,CP

This is from a Freight e-list. I don't recall hearing of these items. Have they been in the Dispatch? Is there a webpage? Earl, I would enjoy seeing a "how-to" article in the Dispatch. Ted Larson Wishing you a Joyous Christmas And a fun non-millenium New Year >>>>>> Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 17:02:12 -0500 From: "Jeff English" <englij@ Subject: Re: Re: News from Naperville ..... the display of Earl Tuson's conversions of S-scale Pacific Rail Shops AAR box cars to CN and CP variations, using resin replacement parts. These are available as kits from Earl's Standard Railway Castings Co. --------------------------------------------------------------- Jeff English Troy, New York Proto:64 Classic Era Railroad Modeling englij@ | R U T L A N D R A I L R O A D | Route of the Whippet --------------------------------------------------------------- <<<<<< Ted Larson __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15810	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 12/8/2001
Subject: S-Helper switches

Greetings all, For those of use the S-Helper S-Trax, and started with the starter set (six curves, four straights) and would like to pick up some switches for christmas Will the Number 3 switches work with the 19" radius curves in the starter set or do I need to buy additional curves? Just wondering:) Jeff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15811	From: lawrence Jackman	Date: 12/8/2001
Subject: Re: Electromagnetic Crane 583 vs 583A

I said "if you know how to do it" They pick up any kind of brass with an electromagnetic crane all the time. They induce a magnetic field in the brass and then pick up the field and the brass comes with it. Tool steel can be anti-magnetic. When you heat treat it, if you over heat it it will go anti-magnetic. Thank you Larry Jackman Tim Brown wrote: > > Hi All, > > I can't resist responding to a little post about brass being magnetic. I beg to differ. Good brass is n

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15812	From: robbe_wan	Date: 12/8/2001
Subject: Re: S-Helper switches

Depends on how you define work. The switches will plug into the 19" radius and work fine with SHS stuff. Don't be surprised if you have to re-gauge any AF rolling stock to prevent de-railing. The same with the AF Steamers, You may need to re-gauge. If you have any Flyer/Lionel diesels they may have trouble negotiating the switch even after re-gauging. I have posted a photo to the list showing what I think is the apparent nature of the interference. (switch.gif) I don't recommend the trim shown in the picture as a solution. This was a graphic that was used in communication with the showcase people. They are really nice looking switches and work well with SHS items, but I don't really think they should advertise compatibility with AF if it doesn't do it. Something I have intended to try and have not .. I am convinced that if you machine the wheel flange so it is a little more sharp the de- railing might not occur. I haven't had time to test this. I just boxed the switches back up and haven't used them since. They look great, but since I have only one SHS engine and only a couple of cars I haven't messed with the switches or any mods. to equipment to make it work. --- In S-Trains@y..., Jeffrey Tangeman <jt12313@n...> wrote: > Greetings all, > > For those of use the S-Helper S-Trax, and started with the starter set (six > curves, four straights) and would like to pick up some switches for christmas > > Will the Number 3 switches work with the 19" radius curves in the starter > set or do I need to buy additional curves? > > Just wondering:) > > Jeff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15813	From: Donald P. Abrams	Date: 12/8/2001
Subject: 583 & 583A

I agree. The 583A is the best operator. Ditching the reverse unit was a good move on Gilbert's part. And the motor in the 583 is an inferior design. Also, if you see a prewar 583 -- run away!!! These have only one electrical lead to the magnet. The return path for the magnet is from the coil to the cover to the eyelet to the hook to the pulley and then through a segmented metal wire which raises the magnet and then attaches to the gantry. Talk about high resistance! 60+ years of oxidation on these components pretty much leaves the magnet unsuable. Useing two wires to the magnet and a string to raise it was a postwar move I believe. Don

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15814	From: Donald P. Abrams	Date: 12/8/2001
Subject: AF Steamer Problems

Start with a motor tuneup as previously suggested. Also, something I see on many repairs I get in is that the axle wipers on the tender are deformed and don't make good contact with the axle. Clean this area and reform the wipers. Some of these wipers ( the coper strips) are no longer very tight either. Recrimp the rivet or solder the rivet to the strip to get a good connection at this point. Don P.S. Another problem spot is the connecting plug between the engine and tender. Sometimes squeezing the female side of the connector gives a better electrical connection. Remember every time it's unplugged this gets a little looser!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15815	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 12/8/2001
Subject: Part needed

I am looking for an AF GP-7 dummy chassis. Anyone got one they could part with? Roger Petrella Franktown, CO

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15816	From: JFrederick Roberts	Date: 12/8/2001
Subject: 583 A

The 583A is the best operator. Ditching the reverse unit was a good move on Gilbert's part. And I thought getting rid of the reverse unit was just a cost cutting move. It sure is one less thing to go wrong. Yes, big L did build a better one, that is it did a lot more. But it cost so much that not a lot of them sold. I bet Gilbert sold a lot to people that couldn't go the price of big L's unit. I don't think it would be too hard to wire power for the magnet to it's own switch so it was independent of the motor power. Wouldn't be "Pure Gilbert", but should not be all that hard to do. jfred --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online at Yahoo! Greetings. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15817	From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com	Date: 12/8/2001
Subject: S-Helper switches

Negative_Pitch@... (robbe_wan) wrote" They are really nice looking switches and work well with SHS items, but I don't really think they should advertise compatibility with AF if it doesn't do it." I've been running S-Helper switches for over 50 hours now on my portable layout using a Franklin engine, a 336, and a K325 with the only problem being my flyer tender wheels being out of gauge. Once that small problem was taken care of, they ran great through the S-helper switches. That is the same for the Christmas cars I ran, gauged the whells and flawless through the switches. I don't think the advertising of AF compatible is the problem. I think our Flyer trains wheels have just been neglected when it comes to gauging the wheels. After gauging for the S-Helper switches, I also have no derailments on my home layout which is Gargraves, and Flyer mixed. THE TRAINNUT CHRIS [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15818	From: af21115	Date: 12/9/2001
Subject: Most Recent Guide

What is the most recent guide available for Gilbert HO?? I have the 1996 book by Charles Sommer. Is this the latest, or is there one more recent? Thanks.... Dave

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15819	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 12/9/2001
Subject: Reverse only loco

I have a friends 302 that was completely serviced recently. It has suddenly stopped going in forward. It runs and smokes great in reverse. The e-unit functions fine, in fact I plugged the tender into another 302 I just picked up and it works fine in both directions. Everything in the loco appears okay. New brushes & springs, everything clean and shiny, no armature play, no cracked wheels or loose drivers, all wire connections shiny and tight, all of which leads me to think that there may be a problem with the armature. Any suggestions? Roger Petrella Franktown, CO

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15820	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 12/9/2001
Subject: a christmas story - Off topic

If you can listen to this story and not be moved ... http://www.npr.org/ramfiles/wesun/20001224.wesun.08.ram

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15821	From: gino restivo	Date: 12/9/2001
Subject: Re: Reverse only loco, gp-7 chassis

merry x-mas to all ........ hi roger , if this loco is a 5 wire ? you need to flip over the jack panel plug ! if it's not ck the wiring it could be wrong also ck for a sticking brush ...... ps. how much do you need on the gp-7 chassis ? without sideframes ? have fun , gino -----Original Message----- From: Roger V. Petrella Jr. <rogerpjr@...> To: s-trains@yahoogroups.com <s-trains@yahoogroups.com> Date: Sunday, December 09, 2001 4:41 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Reverse only loco >I have a friends 302 that was completely serviced recently. It has >suddenly stopped going in forward. It runs and smokes great in >reverse. The e-unit functions fine, in fact I plugged the tender into >another 302 I just picked up and it works fine in both directions. >Everything in the loco appears okay. New brushes & springs, everything >clean and shiny, no armature play, no cracked wheels or loose drivers, >all wire connections shiny and tight, all of which leads me to think >that there may be a problem with the armature. Any suggestions? > >Roger Petrella >Franktown, CO > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > ---------------------------------------------------- Sign Up for NetZero Platinum Today Only $9.95 per month! http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15822	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 12/9/2001
Subject: S-helper switches redux

The great thing about asking a question sometimes is realizing that there was something that you did not consider when you asked the first question. S-Helper switches as I now understand work great with S-helper products but if you are useing Flyer... the Flyer wheel/gauge may need some tweeking. Ok, since I keep my pikemaster era Flyer on pikemaster track... Those Pikemaster Casey Jones engine are darn near indestructable, aren't they? My modern S-gauge is mostly American Models, how will my AM Geep and cars handle the switchs. If it matters it's all high-rail. And... when you buy a S-trax switch, what is included and what needs to be purchased? Thanks for everything. Jeff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15823	From: Tom Stolte	Date: 12/9/2001
Subject: [FC] Thanks

I would like to thank each and everyone for ordering decals for the month of November for my 20% off sale. This has been the best ever!! Each order will be process in the order I have received them. All my HO sets except for the newest ones are in stock. I still have to print these. As for the N, S, and O scale orders, these will have to be printed also. As I do not print these and keep them in stock. So please be patient, as all mail orders will take some time to fill now. Right now I'm very swamp with orders. Thanks for understanding. --- --- Tom Stolte - Oddballs Decals N, HO, S & O Scale Model Railroad Decals 26550 227th Street; McLouth, Kansas 66054 Phone: 913-727-6649 - oddballdecal@... Web site http://www.oddballsdecals.com/ Subscribe: OddballsDecals-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Missouri Pacific Photos Web Page: http://www.trainweb.org/mopac/ NMRA Member #121756 Subscribe: MOPAC-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15824	From: Tom Stolte	Date: 12/9/2001
Subject: [FC] Thanks

I would like to thank each and everyone for ordering decals for the month of November for my 20% off sale. This has been the best ever!! Each order will be process in the order I have received them. All my HO sets except for the newest ones are in stock. I still have to print these. As for the N, S, and O scale orders, these will have to be printed also. As I do not print these and keep them in stock. So please be patient, as all mail orders will take some time to fill now. Right now I'm very swamp with orders. Thanks for understanding. --- --- Tom Stolte - Oddballs Decals N, HO, S & O Scale Model Railroad Decals 26550 227th Street; McLouth, Kansas 66054 Phone: 913-727-6649 - oddballdecal@... Web site http://www.oddballsdecals.com/ Subscribe: OddballsDecals-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Missouri Pacific Photos Web Page: http://www.trainweb.org/mopac/ NMRA Member #121756 Subscribe: MOPAC-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15825	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 12/9/2001
Subject: Re: Reverse only loco

I found the problem with the reverse only loco. About the 10th time I took it apart, a wrinkled up piece of heavy clear plastic bag fell out from somewhere. Must have somehow been jamming up something, but only in forward. Seems the guy had been running the loco on the floor around his tree. Thing works fine again. Roger Petrella Franktown, CO

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15826	From: rodgers_carl	Date: 12/9/2001
Subject: Another Prize for the Ill informed

For a bid of only $145.00 you can get a reproduction flyer Hotel, from Marty's Trains, and for $45.01 LESS you can buy it direct from the manufacturer RFGCO.com RFGCO.com should keep an eye on this, to see if they should raise their prices? http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1675880926

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15827	From: scott brown	Date: 12/9/2001
Subject: Re: Another Prize for the Ill informed

Thank you Carl. At least Im not the only one that complains about Marty's reselling other people's items for more than you can get it from the original manufacturer. You can also get a great buy on Bob Tuft's AF Set book from Marty's. Only $10. more than Bob wants for it. LOL Scott Brown -----Original Message----- From: "rodgers_carl" <rodgers_carl@...> Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 03:18:20 -0000 To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [S-Trains] Another Prize for the Ill informed > For a bid of only $145.00 you can get a reproduction flyer Hotel, > from Marty's Trains, and for $45.01 LESS you can buy it direct from > the manufacturer RFGCO.com > > RFGCO.com should keep an eye on this, to see if they should raise > their prices? > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1675880926 > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > --

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15828	From: lawrence Jackman	Date: 12/9/2001
Subject: Re: Another Prize for the Ill informed

What is the problem. That is the good old American, buy and sell at a profit. If some one is stupid enough to pay him more than they would pay someone else, that is between them not you and them. Sounds a little from the left to me. What is your favorite color "red" 8>) Big grin 8>)) Thank you Larry Jackman scott brown wrote: > > Thank you Carl. At least Im not the only one that complains about Marty's reselling other people's items fo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15829	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: 583 & 583A

I have one of those prewar units--it was the childhood toy of an old family friend. Yep, the Electro magnet likes to drop the scrap at inopportune times. I blame it on ACG's trying to use the hook and eye as the return lead, and vow to add a second wire sometime! The cotton wire is another matter. . . . S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15830	From: scott brown	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: Another Prize for the Ill informed

LOL. Good one Larry. LOL. No, actually my favorite color is AF Royal Blue. Big Grin :D Scott Brown -----Original Message----- From: lawrence Jackman <ljack70117@...> Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 01:39:58 -0500 To: scott brown <sbrown56@...> Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Another Prize for the Ill informed > What is the problem. That is the good old American, buy and sell at a > profit. If some one is stupid enough to pay him more than they would pay > someone else, that is between them not you and them. Sounds a little > from the left to me. What is your favorite color "red" 8>) > Big grin 8>)) > Thank you > Larry Jackman > > scott brown wrote: > > > > Thank you Carl. At least Im not the only one that complains about Marty's reselling other people's items fo > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > --

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15831	From: af21115	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: Part needed

Here is one Rodger, not sure of how nice a one you need. This one needs a little work, but is not bad. E-Bay #1675950713

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15832	From: af21115	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: Another Prize for the Ill informed

It does pay to be informed. A few bucks is not bad, its the way its supposed to work. Now a $130 car for $224.95??? Thats someone waiting for a pigeon to land on their coop. Check this out. E-Bay #1676033820. This is for a 24324 Hooker Tank in EX with OB. Lists for $130 often seen in that range at shows. Starting bid is great at $49 plus some change, but if its still showing, check out that Buy It Now!! WOW! $224.95.... NOT! I know this seller as I've dealt with him in person and via the internet. He's a quality AF collector and is a great guy to deal with. I still haven't figured out why he does this with the Buy It Now except that maybe he's looking for someone to give in and do a knee jerk reactionairy bid. Beats coffee for a morning eye opener... :o)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15833	From: SMASTER636@aol.com	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Request for Part

I need a Control Box for my AF Remote Control Track Switches. The plastic levers on mine broke. Does anyone have a Contol Box for sale or can anyone advise how I can make what I have left work? Thank you. Joe Fariello Cooper City, Florida

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15834	From: Craig E Manning	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Reverse only loco

There may have been a piece of plastic preventing a connection, but seems to me that would have prevented power altogether. Under the tender at least on my 302, there's a switch that can easily be struck with ones middle (road rage) finger as you pick up and turn over the engine and tender and this switch will hold the engine in only a reverse direction (something to do with e-unit ops), I guess so it could be coupled with another engine. I have hit this switch before and not even realized I did and you tend to forget it's there, so the idea never comes that may be the problem. I had a drill once that refused to work, took it 25 miles down the road to my electrician Father, pulled it all apart, checked armature, brushes, windings, switch, used all the tools for complete circuit testing, put it back together plugged it in and it just whizzed, and zinged like a champ; ran perfectly. I go back home and plug it in ready to resume my project and it don't work. I call him and we're thinking a few minutes and he says : "Is the outlet a switched outlet ?" Ooooops........ Craig Manning Rolla, MO "Roger V. Petrella Jr." To: s-trains@yahoogroups.com <rogerpjr@ix.n cc: etcom.com> Subject: [S-Trains] Reverse only loco 12/09/01 03:39 PM I have a friends 302 that was completely serviced recently. It has suddenly stopped going in forward. It runs and smokes great in reverse. The e-unit functions fine, in fact I plugged the tender into another 302 I just picked up and it works fine in both directions. Everything in the loco appears okay. New brushes & springs, everything clean and shiny, no armature play, no cracked wheels or loose drivers, all wire connections shiny and tight, all of which leads me to think that there may be a problem with the armature. Any suggestions? Roger Petrella Franktown, CO S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15835	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: Another Prize for the Ill informed

Here's a point I wish to make: As a seller, I'd personally be a little cautious about using the 'buy it now' feature with a grossly pumped up price. I think it encourages the deadbeat who can't keep his finger off the button then regrets it after he sobers up. It takes time to go through the process with a deadbeat before relisting. If a seller is trying to take advantage of a brisk seasonal market, he could end up missing it - not to mention the stress. Just my thoughts... Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: "af21115" <Dave0616@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 6:34 AM Subject: [S-Trains] Re: Another Prize for the Ill informed > It does pay to be informed. A few bucks is not bad, its the way its > supposed to work. Now a $130 car for $224.95??? Thats someone waiting > for a pigeon to land on their coop. Check this out. E-Bay > #1676033820. This is for a 24324 Hooker Tank in EX with OB. Lists for > $130 often seen in that range at shows. Starting bid is great at $49 > plus some change, but if its still showing, check out that Buy It > Now!! WOW! $224.95.... NOT! I know this seller as I've dealt with him > in person and via the internet. He's a quality AF collector and is a > great guy to deal with. I still haven't figured out why he does this > with the Buy It Now except that maybe he's looking for someone to > give in and do a knee jerk reactionairy bid. Beats coffee for a > morning eye opener... :o) > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15836	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: Another Prize for the Ill informed

Larry Jackman asks if Scott Brown has now, or has ever had, a favorite color: >What is your favorite color; "red"? I take mine with a side order of blue and white Larry. But I despise these schivoso who are so f&#%*(G greedy that they START their auction price at a 50% higher level than retail. Guys like this who cruise for clueless marks give the whole train market a shady glow. We've seen it time and again. They buy for $50 ("oh, it's common as dirt") and sell for $1000 ("RARE, L@@K!"). I sent him a message to let him know we're onto him. It probably won't matter. If things are falling down to the right, you have to lean to the left. Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15837	From: Craig E Manning	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: Another Prize for the Ill informed

Well it's always buyer beware, but the "buy it now" option is not a comittment until you complete the deal with a final submit, checkout comes after that. I kinda resent the fact that assumptions are drawn here that someone who choses the "buy it now" option are deadbeats. Sellers can be deadbeats also. Matter of fact instances of sellers not coming through on eBay for what was advertized or auctioned, is more common than the deadbeat buyer. If someone bid and they realized they shouldn't have then they have no legal recourse, the warnings are everywhere, a "bid is a contract". And too a buyer has plenty of opportunity to back out. The buy it now option, you don't have to commit, you select it, they tell you the price and then you do a final submit. Then checkout begins, or contacting the seller. My understanding is the "buy it now" option is for reserve bid auctions, and even tho one can usually email the seller and ask them what the reserve is, when you see the "buy it now" it usually says what the amount is right up front. It shouldn't be a surprize to anyone. If it's out of line then that seller won't sell his item. The two sets I did the item description showed "buy it now for $125", I knew that was a pretty good deal. The trains are en-route. Craig Rolla, MO "Tim Brown" <Timboy@att.n To: "S-List" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> et> cc: Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Re: Another Prize for the Ill informed 12/10/01 07:45 AM Here's a point I wish to make: As a seller, I'd personally be a little cautious about using the 'buy it now' feature with a grossly pumped up price. I think it encourages the deadbeat who can't keep his finger off the button then regrets it after he sobers up. It takes time to go through the process with a deadbeat before relisting. If a seller is trying to take advantage of a brisk seasonal market, he could end up missing it - not to mention the stress. Just my thoughts... Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: "af21115" <Dave0616@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 6:34 AM Subject: [S-Trains] Re: Another Prize for the Ill informed > It does pay to be informed. A few bucks is not bad, its the way its > supposed to work. Now a $130 car for $224.95??? Thats someone waiting > for a pigeon to land on their coop. Check this out. E-Bay > #1676033820. This is for a 24324 Hooker Tank in EX with OB. Lists for > $130 often seen in that range at shows. Starting bid is great at $49 > plus some change, but if its still showing, check out that Buy It > Now!! WOW! $224.95.... NOT! I know this seller as I've dealt with him > in person and via the internet. He's a quality AF collector and is a > great guy to deal with. I still haven't figured out why he does this > with the Buy It Now except that maybe he's looking for someone to > give in and do a knee jerk reactionairy bid. Beats coffee for a > morning eye opener... :o) > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15838	From: Horn, David	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: crane

I recommend the Lionel crane. You can go completely around as much as you like, work the up and down as you wish, and even run up or down with one of the turning directions at the same time (cool looking action). Among the post war models there is one favored over the others (165 vs. 182). I bought mine years ago, so I'd have to check my references, but it's the one with a girder (fixed, not wheeled) base, OO motor for extra uummmpph, dual solenoids instead of one, and an ingenious clutch mechanism. Works dreamy. The later production models came with two motors, which makes a lot of sense. I've only briefly operated them. They seem to work very well too. As much as I love Flyer, gotta hand it to Ly'n-L on cranes. The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for the addressee(s). BEST! Software, Inc. disclaims any responsibility for the contents of this message, including any attachments. The views expressed in this message are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect the views of the company or any other employee of the company. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, please notify BEST! Software, Inc. immediately by E-mailing Postmaster@... and destroy all copies of this message.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15839	From: Robichaud, Thomas Jr (Thomas)	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Chapter 2 of my experience with the RR UP Turbine.

Yo: I posted my experience with my new River Raisin Turbine last week. Now for an update. In the original testing it was run on the Bristol Club Modular layout. I had the opportunity to finally test it out on my own layout. My layout has 24" and 27" rad. curves, along with some # 3, 4 and 5 close frogs switches. I was hoping to at least be able to run the Turbine on the mainline. After the initial test I found that the B-unit had no problem negotiating the curves but the A-unit front truck would hit the front pilot on one side. I then talked to Dan at River Raisin about this. The Turbine was really only designed to handle SHS max curves (which I thinks is 29" rad.). This was a bummer but we did discuss a few options I was thinking of trying. What I decided to do is to elongate the chassis holes and slide the chassis back. I only need about 0.050" to 0.100" to clear the front pilot. There are 8 screws that mount the chassis to the body, I elongated 6 of them, keeping 2 just in case I needed to bring it back to the original alignment. After filing and testing, filing and testing I got it to a point where the truck cleared the pilot. Guess what, the UP Turbine now runs on 24" radius curves. It actually runs through the # 3 close frog switch as well. I also believe it will run on even tighter curves. And by sliding the chassis back, I don't think I sacrificed any of the look. And finally I want to thank River Raisin for the quick call back regarding my Loco! I run both O-gauge and S-gauge and my experience with S-gauge manufactures is much more pleasant the it is with the O-gauge manufactures. Enjoy Tommy

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15840	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: Another Prize for the Ill informed

Marty, of Marty's Trains, replied to my e-mail directing him to the RFG website to see the hotel for $99.95. Here is his reply: >Hi Chris >Thanks for the info. > I wonder if his is made as well, and nice as the one we offer? >Marty I wrote back: Marty: It IS the one you offer. Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15841	From: lawrence Jackman	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: Another Prize for the Ill informed

Of course it won't matter and it is his RED WITH A SIDE ORDER OF BLUE AND WHITE right to do as he is doing. It is not illegal. For the last 40 years, the pinkos and pure reds have been teaching your very argument in our schools. It did not work in Russia so WHY would we want it to work here. This kind of thinking has not worked in any country in the world and will not work in this one. If it does, we are doomed. Also remember P T Barnum. (sp) Of course you can despise these people, that is also your right. But the greed of the American people is what makes these scams work. Thank you Larry Jackman REMEMBER YOU HAVE THE FREEDOM OF SPEECH BUT YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE HEARD. Chris Zizzo wrote: > > Larry Jackman asks if Scott Brown has now, or has ever had, a favorite > color: > >What is your favorite color; "red"? > > I take mine with a side order of blue and white L

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15842	From: lawrence Jackman	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: Another Prize for the Ill informed

BUT IT IS STILL HIS RIGHT TO DO SO!!!!!!!! Thank you Larry Jackman Craig E Manning wrote: > > Well it's always buyer beware, but the "buy it now" option is not a

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15843	From: lawrence Jackman	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: Another Prize for the Ill informed

I just remembered when my oldest daughter was looking for a car in the 70s, we went shopping. We went to the Subaru dealer. Not only would he not discount like the other dealers but he was adding a 2000 dollar charge on top of the MSRP because they were a hot car at that time and he could sell all he could get. The good old red, white and blue way of doing business. Thank you Larry Jackman Chris Zizzo wrote: > > Larry Jackman asks if Scott Brown has now, or has ever had, a favorite > color: > >What is your favorite color; "red"? > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15844	From: Scott Brown	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: Another Prize for the Ill informed

Ok Ok. I'm sorry I stirred up the pot. We haven't had any real arguments for some time. I appologize. Actually, I don't appologize. I just wish we could have a discussion without people getting all bent and insulting other people's opinions. One thing that has frustrated me for years is that when someone from the other side of the track from the people on Larry's side of the track, voices their opinion, they are told to shut up. That we are somehow closed minded and stupid and they are not. They are somehow so much more wise and intelligent and we are bumbling neandrathals. Larry says I have the right to freedom of speech but not the right to be heard. Reminds me of when someone puts their fingers in their ears and runs away shouting. I CAN'T HEAR YOU. Instead of discussing the issue, Larry chose to insult me by asking if my favorite color was RED.. I tried to lighten the subject by passing it off with a silly comment about my favorite color being AF Royal Blue. Chris picked up on it and then Larry decided to call him a "pinko" and a "pure red". Let's just drop the subject as it appears we can't act like grown men on here. Scott Brown ----- Original Message ----- From: "lawrence Jackman" <ljack70117@...> To: "Chris Zizzo" <busyboy@...> Cc: "slist" <s-trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 10:13 AM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Re: Another Prize for the Ill informed > Of course it won't matter and it is his RED WITH A SIDE ORDER OF BLUE > AND WHITE right to do as he is doing. It is not illegal. For the last 40 > years, the pinkos and pure reds have been teaching your very argument in > our schools. It did not work in Russia so WHY would we want it to work > here. This kind of thinking has not worked in any country in the world > and will not work in this one. If it does, we are doomed. > Also remember P T Barnum. (sp) > Of course you can despise these people, that is also your right. But the > greed of the American people is what makes these scams work. > Thank you > Larry Jackman > > REMEMBER YOU HAVE THE FREEDOM OF SPEECH BUT YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO > BE HEARD. > > > > > Chris Zizzo wrote: > > > > Larry Jackman asks if Scott Brown has now, or has ever had, a favorite > > color: > > >What is your favorite color; "red"? > > > > I take mine with a side order of blue and white L > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15845	From: roberte613@aol.com	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Tires?

I've read discussions about tires off and on but wondered if tires are suitable for all engines. I never remember my trusty old 302 having tires. Did it at some time? Are there any downsides to tires? My AM Southern Crescent could sure use some help climbing a grade. Is adding tires a good solution? Are there variations in quality among suppliers? Enough questions. Thanks for any input on this subject. Robert E.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15846	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: Another Prize for the Ill informed

What the hell happened here? Everybody, listen up! Calm down. My remarks about greedy sales techniques are not meant to tell anyone that they cannot try to get high prices from unwitting sellers, nor am I attempting to regulate such sales, as outrageous as they might be. These practices annoy me and I was expressing that annoyance. When I see someone engaging in such practices, I make a point of telling them how I feel about it. Then they are free to react in whatever way they want. See? It all hinges on freedom of speech and freedom of action. My counter comments to the Larry Jackman "red" remarks were intended to be taken lightly. Actually, I thought they were clever in their McCarthy references. In a free society, you can make such remarks and people take them in the spirit intended because we don't live in fear of what is said. Larry, this: "For the last 40 years, the pinkos and pure reds have been teaching your very argument in our schools.", is a bit over the top. I see the faults in both Communism and Capitalism, and I side with no one philosophy. If you are using this forum to level an attack on the educational system or on teachers, it is inappropriate, no matter how well founded your argument. Scott said: "Let's just drop the subject as it appears we can't act like grown men on here." I don't agree. Grown men have been acting like this since the dawn of time. We need to start acting like something else; like people without a pre-set agenda and a lot of cast-in-stone ideas. We need to pursue subjects we fear so we can conquer them and further our own art of communication. Let's evolve a little bit. For starters, let's return to civility. Here is the order again, lest we forget: 1.) Brains, 2.)Trains, 3.)Everything Else. Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15847	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: Tires?

Robert E. asks: >I wondered if tires are suitable for all engines. >I never remember my trusty old 302 having tires. Early Flyer engines went metal wheel to rail. They were pretty heavy engines and they handled the sets of 3 or 4 cars just fine. Later, Flyer introduced "Pull-Mor" which was a rubber tire on two drivers to increase traction. This was helpful as the boilers went to light plastic and the trains got longer. Sets were being released with 5, 6 and 7 cars. Diesel passenger sets had 5 streamline cars and two dummy units to haul around. The new AM steamers have tires. The first generation did not, but AM offers a retro-fit kit. The wheel must be changed out. Tires substantially improve traction. On the downside, the could cause a wobble, they can come off, and they can induce a motor stall as they stop slippage. The good points outweigh the bad. Go to www.Americanmodels.com and get your kit. You'll be glad you did. Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15848	From: ohiowx	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Heated discussion

To all involved in today's heated discussion. If you want to disagree in the way today's posts have been, do it by contacting the person at their personal e-mail. The remainder of us on this list have other things to do but to read these heated comments. Larry Huff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15849	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Die Cast S train!!

Was in the auto shop getting parts for Linda's car this AM and saw in a catalog a "Dale Earnhardt Train, 1/64" for $299.95. Hmm, pic looks like an F unit w/many flatcars w/racing cars on them and a caboose. You can see it at: http://www.toolweb.com/prodDetail.cfm?pn=MOTMM1RV64013T#Self Anyone know anything about it?? S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15850	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: crane

Also, the L crane body looks to be S size! I also have one! I don't remember which one it was, but it was needing some major surgery, so I will hide it's heritage during the repairs!!! Heh Heh Heh S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15851	From: Scott Brown	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: Another Prize for the Ill informed

Good one Chris. Well said. Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Zizzo" <busyboy@...> To: "slist" <s-trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 12:43 PM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Re: Another Prize for the Ill informed > What the hell happened here? > > Everybody, listen up! > > Calm down. > > My remarks about greedy sales techniques are not meant to tell anyone that > they cannot try to get high prices from unwitting sellers, nor am I > attempting to regulate such sales, as outrageous as they might be. > > These practices annoy me and I was expressing that annoyance. When I see > someone engaging in such practices, I make a point of telling them how I > feel about it. Then they are free to react in whatever way they want. > > See? It all hinges on freedom of speech and freedom of action. My counter > comments to the Larry Jackman "red" remarks were intended to be taken > lightly. Actually, I thought they were clever in their McCarthy references. > In a free society, you can make such remarks and people take them in the > spirit intended because we don't live in fear of what is said. > > Larry, this: "For the last 40 years, the pinkos and pure reds have been > teaching your very argument in our schools.", is a bit over the top. I see > the faults in both Communism and Capitalism, and I side with no one > philosophy. If you are using this forum to level an attack on the > educational system or on teachers, it is inappropriate, no matter how well > founded your argument. > > Scott said: "Let's just drop the subject as it appears we can't act like > grown men on here." I don't agree. Grown men have been acting like this > since the dawn of time. We need to start acting like something else; like > people without a pre-set agenda and a lot of cast-in-stone ideas. We need > to pursue subjects we fear so we can conquer them and further our own art of > communication. Let's evolve a little bit. For starters, let's return to > civility. > > Here is the order again, lest we forget: 1.) Brains, 2.)Trains, > 3.)Everything Else. > > Chris Zizzo > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15852	From: lawrence Jackman	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: Another Prize for the Ill informed

Gentlemen I did not call you any of those names. But you are mouthing their thoughts. What am I to think. I have heard this all my life. Don't get me started on unions. Thank you Larry Jackman Scott Brown wrote: >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15853	From: lawrence Jackman	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: Another Prize for the Ill informed

Remember there is freedom of speech BUT Nowhere is it writen you have the right to be heard. Larry Jackman Chris Zizzo wrote: > > What the hell happened here? > > Everybody, listen up! > > Calm down. > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15854	From: Michael Greene	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Die Cast S train!!

At 10:31 AM 12/10/2001 -0800, David Dewey wrote: >Was in the auto shop getting parts for Linda's car this AM and saw in a >catalog a "Dale Earnhardt Train, 1/64" for $299.95. Hmm, pic looks like an F >unit w/many flatcars w/racing cars on them and a caboose. You can see it at: >http://www.toolweb.com/prodDetail.cfm?pn=MOTMM1RV64013T#Self > >Anyone know anything about it?? >S' >David D. See... http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/011017/170024_1.html http://shop.store.yahoo.com/msdirect/thed.html http://secure-shopping-cart.com/prostar/cart/cart508.html Perhaps the cars are 1/64 -- who knows about the train...don't seem very clear -- sounds like will be sold under the Revell name. But non-motorized. Perhaps ERTL? Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15855	From: Euell Johnson	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Die Cast S train!!

The MSD site says that the cars are 1:64. Interesting in that it goes on to say that the rolling stock will fit HO track. Recently I saw a site with a MoPac BM in the product list. I have lost the URL. Does anyone know where this site is? EJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Greene" <mgreene@...> To: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...>; "s-trains" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>; "S-Scale" <S-Scale@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 1:02 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Re: [S-Scale] Die Cast S train!! > At 10:31 AM 12/10/2001 -0800, David Dewey wrote: > >Was in the auto shop getting parts for Linda's car this AM and saw in a > >catalog a "Dale Earnhardt Train, 1/64" for $299.95. Hmm, pic looks like an F > >unit w/many flatcars w/racing cars on them and a caboose. You can see it at: > >http://www.toolweb.com/prodDetail.cfm?pn=MOTMM1RV64013T#Self > > > >Anyone know anything about it?? > >S' > >David D. > > See... > > http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/011017/170024_1.html > > http://shop.store.yahoo.com/msdirect/thed.html > > http://secure-shopping-cart.com/prostar/cart/cart508.html > > Perhaps the cars are 1/64 -- who knows about the train...don't seem very > clear -- sounds like will be sold under the Revell name. But non-motorized. > Perhaps ERTL? > > Michael > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15856	From: royhoffman	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: World's Greatest Hobby Program

Waiting for me with my emails this morning were two updates from the World's Greatest Hobby program. One was from the public speaker's program called "The Ambassadors" and one from the "Clubs" program. They now have about 500 ambassadors and 300 clubs that have volunteered. I wanted the NASG to participate in this program because, as model railroaders first, we have a vested interest in the growth of the hobby. As you probably know, the number of model railroaders in most of the scales is diminishing little by little and the best way to stem that is to get new people interested in model railroading. This thing is bigger that one scale. Also, it doesn't have to be just an NASG thing. The WGH folks would be happy to have individuals and clubs volunteer to help out. They will provide lots of material for speaking at public gatherings or helping out at train shows. You can get more information at their new website at http://www.greatesthobby.com The website implies that the program will cover every aspect of model railroading including collecting, so it's a program that will benefit all of model railroading. Please give it some thought and if you have any questions let me know or get in touch with WGH directly. Roy Hoffman NASG Pres.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15857	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: Die Cast S train!!

Have we missed the words "Fits most HO track" in this ad? http://shop.store.yahoo.com/msdirect/thed.html Glenn [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15858	From: lawrence Jackman	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Die Cast S train!!

There is one engine, 9 flat cars and one caboose. that is 11 pieces and it says the train is 5 1/2 feet long. Divide 66 inches by 11 and you get 6 inches per car. I do not think that makes them S Scale. What do you think Thank you Larry Jackman Michael Greene wrote: > > At 10:31 AM 12/10/2001 -0800, David Dewey wrote: > >Was in the auto shop getting parts for Linda's car this AM and saw in a >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15859	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: World's Greatest Hobby Program

We operated our modular S layout at the Fort Washington Greenberg show this weekend. If you buy any of the Kalmbach literature you receive several free handouts. One is an introduction to model railroading. This is mostly HO with a little N. On a comparison page they show engines in every size including S. There is also the new "Worlds Greatest Hobby" brochure which also shows N, HO, O and G layouts. The comparison page shows S and there are websites to visit including the NASG. Both books obviously promote Kalmbach publishing. Our North Penn S Gaugers were surprised to meet so many people who did not know S lived after A.C. Gilbert or that S by anybody was made today. We along with John Foley gave out a lot of S literature and stirred up some interest in possible new members. Staying on the NPSG branchline of NASG track, Glenn NASG Secretary royhoffman wrote: Waiting for me with my emails this morning were two updates from the World's Greatest Hobby program. One was from the public speaker's program called "The Ambassadors" and one from the "Clubs" program. They now have about 500 ambassadors and 300 clubs that have volunteered. I wanted the NASG to participate in this program because, as model railroaders first, we have a vested interest in the growth of the hobby. As you probably know, the number of model railroaders in most of the scales is diminishing little by little and the best way to stem that is to get new people interested in model railroading. This thing is bigger that one scale. Also, it doesn't have to be just an NASG thing. The WGH folks would be happy to have individuals and clubs volunteer to help out. They will provide lots of material for speaking at public gatherings or helping out at train shows. You can get more information at their new website at http://www.greatesthobby.com The website implies that the program will cover every aspect of model railroading including collecting, so it's a program that will benefit all of model railroading. Please give it some thought and if you have any questions let me know or get in touch with WGH directly. Roy Hoffman NASG Pres.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15860	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: ebay lunacy

Here's another good one on ebay's automated attempt at finding you more things to bid on when you lose. I lost the bid on "15+ pieces of Nice Gargraves Track for AF". A couple of items the computer selected as a close match were " Amico Christmas 20 Light Set C6 Boxed" and several different "Tamron 28-80 AF Lens for Canon (also for Nikon & Minolta). I guess the "AF" made some link between the two, but haven't figured out the light set, other than most people bring the trains out for Christmas, but I don't think computers can rationalize that concept yet. Roger Petrella Franktown, CO

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15861	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Die Cast S train!!

I don't know either, but if it's not an AM or SHS train set, we missed a great marketing opportunity for S! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15862	From: Tom Pennington	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: ebay lunacy

Seems to me that it should be easy enough for them to limit the search to the category the item was listed in, save everyone lots of wasted bandwidth, but then again, I guess I am suggesting that some write some "good" software!!! Maybe if we all "suggested" this as an improvment... Tom _---_---_---______--__--___+-----+||] [||####### #####|______||_____ || UNION PACIFIC __| [][] |__ || ||_______________________/ _| UP |___\_|| | ||| | | | | | | / | 6212 # ||| | []|=|==================o=====o==================|=|[] /|-||(0)|=|(0)|=|(O) |_________| (0)|=|(0)|=|(O)||-|\ ======================================================== [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15863	From: Craig E Manning	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: Die Cast S train!!

Did I read this wrong or is this train NOT motorized, most HO or not ? Don't we, uhmmm, play with trains that run around on our layouts ? I guess this one just sits on a siding someplace and whatever...... Craig Glenn Ritter <gartrain@net- To: Michael Greene <mgreene@...> thing.net> cc: David Dewey <djdewey@...>, s-trains <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>, S-Scale <S-Scale@yahoogroups.com> 12/10/01 02:19 Subject: [S-Trains] Re: Die Cast S train!! PM Have we missed the words "Fits most HO track" in this ad? http://shop.store.yahoo.com/msdirect/thed.html Glenn [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15864	From: Bente Velapoldi	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: Tires?

Robert: I haven't read all the answers, but AM sells the gription tires for the Pacific. I have a pair (about $12-13) and am still working up the courage to put them on! Rance roberte613@... wrote: > I've read discussions about tires off and on but wondered if tires are > suitable for all engines. I never remember my trusty old 302 having tires. > Did it at some time? Are there any downsides to tires? My AM Southern > Crescent could sure use some help climbing a grade. Is adding tires a good > solution? Are there variations in quality among suppliers? > > Enough questions. Thanks for any input on this subject. > > Robert E. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15865	From: Ted Walton	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Another Prize for the Ill informed

I'm sorry to continue this subject but I think this is important to say. In spite of all the name calling, insinuations, insulting remarks (real or imaginary) by Larry Jackman, please don't let him or anyone else intimidate you (this group) from reporting these incidents of "over charging" on eBay, by dealers, and other individuals, and any other price information. In fact, if you feel Lionel, MTH or other manufactures have put out a poor product or you been ripped off by someone in this hobby, please report that information here. This is one of the formats I use to learn from, and if Larry doesn't need this information, I wish I was so knowledgeable. That having been said, I still like the messenger and his individualism, but do have a problem with his messages sometimes. His train comments have been very helpful to me in the pass. Best regards to all combatants, Ted Walton

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15866	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Back to TRAINS!!! NOW!!!

Keep the Politics offline. If you can't you will be 'Moderated'. If you have a problem with this talk to me offline. Now 'BACK TO TRAINS!' ===== Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com Photography - Computers - Trains __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15867	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: Heated discussion

Larry admonished: >To all involved in today's heated discussion. >If you want to disagree in the way today's posts have been, do it by >contacting the person at their personal e-mail. The remainder of us >on this list have other things to do but to read these heated >comments. Well . . . don't get all in a huff! Ooooh, sorry. Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15868	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: Die Cast S train!!

David Dewey, who has recently repaired his wife's car, expounded: >saw in a catalog a "Dale Earnhardt Train, 1/64" for $299.95. A little mis-direction in the description, I'm afraid. Look again at that ridiculous picture and the truth shall reveal itself. "HO HO HO said Santa, I'm not fay. But the trains I bring you are H.O. today." The cars, which are sized to match all those HO racing sets from Aurora Model Motoring, are, of course, 1/64th. scale. The flat cars are just big enough to hold one. H.O. trains, S vehicles. And 300 bucks, gee whiz! Sorry, Duck. Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15869	From: Bill Lane	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Blatant self promotion

Hi Guys, I decided to let a few things go that I probably will not get around to finishing. Please give this a look. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1675820470 Thanks Bill

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15870	From: robbe_wan	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: GAEX 922 Stamped

Could I have some input on the value of this car? The 2001 Greenberg has it at $41.00 for an excellent. You can see pictures at: http://www.perryisp.net/~mkiner/GAEX_stamped.htm Thanks, Mark

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15871	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: Die Cast S train!!

Chris, It's even worse! After reading different web sites, thanks to others who posted URLs, I found out the train doesn't even run!!! I sent a polite email to them, including the URLs of our favorite RTR manufacturers. Maybe they'll see the light??? S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15872	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Message for the Sunday Chat groupies.

HI All, Well, the noise in Linda's car turned out to be the water pump, which seized when she pulled in the driveway. Spit out bearing rollers even, but never leaked! By 11PM that night, I had bashed knuckles and the pump, and all the belts out (Hondas are soooo much fun to work on---NOT!!!) By 10 AM today, I had it back together, except for an extra bolt and washer. AAAUGH! Drove it to Drs appt and town, and figured out where they were supposed to go, so another hour of disassembling and putting them in, reassembling and we were good to go. Interestingly, that funny click, click that we've been hearing under the dashboard is now gone too. I think the bearing had been telegraphing noise to the heater core! To 'er on a test drive up the hill to the possible new digs, ran fine, I still like the looks of the place, Linda is so-so! Won't know until after Christmas at the earliest. So all the dire predictions we tossed around at chat didn't come true! Whew! MIght be at chat Sunday, but we have two parties to be at, so will depend if I get a breather in between them! S' David D. PS If you're not at chat, you're not where it's at!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15873	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: Another Prize for the Ill informed

OK If we are going to get silly again, I will let you get started on Unions; You know , Organized Labor, the people who brought you the 5 Day Work Week , the 8 Hour Work Day , an end to Child Labor, an answer to those like the men who killed the needle trades men and women at the Triangle Shirtwaist Company. Unionists like the men who were killed at River Rouge. Union members like the Fire, Police and Emergency Service members killed 9/11. Dennis Troini , Civil Service Technical Guild, Local 375 , Executive Board Parliamentarian; Chapter 2 , Pension Chair , Workplace Health and Safety Committee , Grievance Committee , Bargaining Committee , Executive Board. On Mon, 10 Dec 2001 13:49:58 -0500 Lawrence Jackman <ljack70117@...> writes: > Gentlemen > I did not call you any of those names. But you are mouthing their > thoughts. What am I to think. I have heard this all my life. Don't > get > me started on unions. > Thank you > Larry Jackman

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15874	From: David A. Highfield	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Model train site

Suddenly I am receiving off-topic emails...everything from a faulty auto water pump to organized labor. Boring...... And now, on topic, thanks for whoever referred the list to Code 3 products. I ordered and received the Washington, D.C. 1/64 firehouse. It is a big building for my layout but with great detail. My matchbox fire engines will look great beside it. Check it out at www.code3.net. Dave

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15875	From: Jay	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Switch remote

Hi, In case everyone missed Joe's post, I too would like to ask about switch controls. Can some kind of toggle switch from the likes of radio Shack be used. I am interested because I would like to put all the controls on a control board. Jay -- Jay _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15876	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: Switch remote

For making your own switch controllers, if you don't need the indicator lights, a simple Single Pole, Double Throw (SPDT) Momentary contact switch can be used. conect tthe yellow wire to the center contact, and the red and green wires to the outer contacts. Another way to do this is to get some push buttons, single pole Normally Open ("NO") and mount them on your board indicating which way they throw. Radio Shack sells some with red and green buttons even! The important thing is, for all but the early 720 switches, that the contact be only momentary, so you don't burn out your coils. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15877	From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com	Date: 12/10/2001
Subject: Re: Model train site

Suddenly I am receiving off-topic emails...everything from a faulty auto water pump to organized labor. Boring...... And code 3 fire vehichles are about Trains in 1/64th scale? THE TRAINNUT CHRIS [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15878	From: Don Thompson	Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: Re: Switch remote

Dear Jay, We market a switch controller similar to the original AF. Except, ours used LEDs instead of light bulbs The wires are color coded the same as AF and we have sold these to AF parts dealers as replacements. They are number #00533 and are $9.95. Extension ribbon wire sets are also available. They can be found on our web site at: http://www.showcaseline.com/track_in_stock.html Don Thompson Jay wrote: > Hi, In case everyone missed Joe's post, I too would like to ask about > switch controls. Can some kind of toggle switch from the likes of > radio Shack be used. I am interested because I would like to put all > the controls on a control board. > Jay > -- > Jay > > _________________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15879	From: Hannon	Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: Water Pumps and Off-Topic

But Dave's post was "on-topic". It's all about train budgets, spending priorities, and the evil forces that are at work to erode that budget. Case(s) in point: 1. Bearings laying all around and no water leaked? 2. Linda conveniently "drives in" at 9 o'clock on a Sunday night, in the middle of the chat session? 3. Linda is "so-so" on the new house? You're wrong, Dave! My prediction still holds. LINDA WILL GET A NEW CAR! Bob

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15880	From: Jay	Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: Re: Switch Controllers

Thanks to David and Don for the advice. Jay ps. for the rest of the listserve - another day of this gibberish and i'm gone. As a newcomer to model trains in general and S in particular; the list has been a great resource. It has taken a decided downturn of late, becoming more entertaining but less informative. -- Jay _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15881	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: Re: GAEX 922 Stamped

In a message dated 12/10/01 9:37:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, Negative_Pitch@... writes: << The 2001 Greenberg has it at ......... >> Never heard of them. <grin> RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15882	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: Re: Water Pumps and Off-Topic

Bob, Thanks for the post. UH OH! I hadn't thought about that (new car). THAT will muck up the train budget!! BTW, yeah Linda usually does come home during Chat--I skip evening services to go to chat!! (I'm not hot on "modern" services anyay). How's that for dedication! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15883	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: Special to Jay and othe list "newbies" --Hang in there! was: Re: Sw

Hay Jay & all, Don't think of leaving yet; this list sometimes gets a bit off-topic as some of us have been here for years and think of list members as "family" so we sometimes talk a _little_ bit about non-train things, and we ocassionally blow up at each other. Just consider it "dinner table" discussion and wait a few days, it'll blow over and we'll get back to things like "runs faster in reverse than forward" "what is the TRUE radius of AF track" "When will my XYZ accessory be shipped" "Why doesn't Big L sell AF?" and other on-topic subjects. Some of which have NO answers, but we try! Like brothers and sisters we can blow up at each other, but we usually settle down and put up with the differences (but they're wrong and I'm right anyway!). I don't think you'll find a better bunch or more helpful bunch, except at the Model T Club site (also a big family who sometimes discusses Pipe Organ playing instead of car problems--and even the "AF is better than L" comes up! Gee I wonder who would start that argument??). S' David D. PS For a diversion you could visit my site: www.quiknet.com/~djdewey (blatant suggestion!)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15884	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: Re: GAEX 922 Stamped

Mark, I don't know, but I do believe it to be fairly uncommon, I can't remember seeing a non-decal version in a long time. I've mis-placed my new illustrated guide which probably gives a lot more info on this car than the G guide. Maybe someone else here can look it up? S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15885	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: Re: Switch Controllers

Jay, Glad to see your interest in the list and S trains. But give the list more of a chance. Everyone here seems to go off on a side trip or rant at one time or another. It even gets a bit ugly at times. Kind of like brothers and sisters fighting. But I think you will find that if you hang around long enough that you will learn to filter out what you don't want and learn an awful lot. There really are a lot of great helpful people on the list. Roger Petrella Franktown, CO Jay wrote: > Thanks to David and Don for the advice. > Jay > ps. for the rest of the listserve - another day of this gibberish and > i'm gone. As a newcomer to model trains in general and S in > particular; the list has been a great resource. It has taken a > decided downturn of late, becoming more entertaining but less > informative. > -- > Jay

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15886	From: Craig E Manning	Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: Re: Switch Controllers

Off topic posts are going to happen, fact of life on any listserv. The list has been a great resource for me too, lots of information but they like to have a little fun too, and that's OK as long as it doesn't continue on too long. Craig Frisco1501 Rolla, MO "Roger V. Petrella Jr." To: s-trains@yahoogroups.com <rogerpjr@ix.n cc: etcom.com> Subject: [S-Trains] Re: Switch Controllers 12/11/01 09:17 AM Jay, Glad to see your interest in the list and S trains. But give the list more of a chance. Everyone here seems to go off on a side trip or rant at one time or another. It even gets a bit ugly at times. Kind of like brothers and sisters fighting. But I think you will find that if you hang around long enough that you will learn to filter out what you don't want and learn an awful lot. There really are a lot of great helpful people on the list. Roger Petrella Franktown, CO Jay wrote: > Thanks to David and Don for the advice. > Jay > ps. for the rest of the listserve - another day of this gibberish and > i'm gone. As a newcomer to model trains in general and S in > particular; the list has been a great resource. It has taken a > decided downturn of late, becoming more entertaining but less > informative. > -- > Jay S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15887	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1235

In a message dated 12/11/2001 2:27:59 AM Mountain Standard Time, S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes: > Hi, In case everyone missed Joe's post, I too would like to ask about > switch controls. Can some kind of toggle switch from the likes of > radio Shack be used. I am interested because I would like to put all > the controls on a control board. > Jay > -- > Jay > > Jay, Atlas sliding, momentary contact switches work just fine and they are cheap. I have used them for years in place of the clugey Flyer control boxes. They mount flat on your control panel and can all be run by common linkage of the power source. I recently switched to American Models trackage and they work just fine on the Rix switch machines that I am now using as well. Regards....Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15888	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: test

testing!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15889	From: Gregg Mummert	Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: Plasticville Parts

Does anyone have a name and number/email address for a Plasticville parts dealer? Thanks Gregg Mummert _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15890	From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com	Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: Re: Switch Controllers

Jay, the list seems to do this every couple of months. Someone gets a pole up the butt and someone else gets one up there further and so on. Just delete the stuff and read the good stuff. Not worth losing out on the good info available to us on the list. THE TRAINNUT CHRIS [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15891	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1235

Switch Controllers: Use HO switch controllers they stack up into a gang of switches and can be found at HO meets for pennies. Some years back WALTHERS made a momentary contact telephone switchboard type switch which I use, it remains in the position it is thrown and makes contact only briefly when it is being thrown I found them at an HO meet. Also push buttons with LED for indicators work well. ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15892	From: Scott Holm	Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: Re: Plasticville Parts

One is: http://www.ssstrains.com/Plasticville1.htm Another is: http://www.bobbylines.net/ --- Gregg Mummert <gmummert@...> wrote: > Does anyone have a name and number/email address for a Plasticville > parts > dealer? > > Thanks > > Gregg Mummert > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15893	From: Robert Wight	Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: Off topic Fights

I'm sort of upset and I had to write. Lately the net has been slow here. So i have only been reading the "S" posts on subjects I wanted to read. The rest I delete without opening. That's what makes me so upset with myself. It seems we have a good fight about every three months. We were due for a another one and I missed it. Shoot anyway, I really enjoy the entertainment value at lest if not get some insight on others thoughts as a bonus. Teach me not to delete uninteresting subjects. I was thinking. Yes you do smell something burning. Ha Ha. Do you think we could put "FIGHT" in the subject line? Then some of us like myself will not delete the fun stuff. Just a thought. I have been working on a new setup and I have a train related subject I do need some answers on but ill post it later if I cant get it out of our archives. Happy Railroading Bob Wight _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15894	From: Don Thompson	Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: Re: SHS 2001 Christmas Car

I regret to report that Robin sold our last 2001 Christmas Car earlier today. If you are interested in this item, you may want to contact our dealers to see if they still have any in stock. Sorry, Don Thompson -- -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15895	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: Re: Plasticville Parts

Gregg, First off, you can go to the Plasticville users group on Yahoo. Then there is: The Plasticville Collectors Association Homepage http://users.erols.com/kutza/plasticville/plasticville.html The Plasticville Gazette Magazine http://www.plasticvillagegazette.com These should give you links to all you need. Roger Petrella Franktown, CO Gregg Mummert wrote: > Does anyone have a name and number/email address for a Plasticville parts > dealer? > > Thanks > > Gregg Mummert > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15896	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: switch control boxes

Two comments on switch control boxes/ The plastic handles for the late type control boxes are easy to replace. Just open up the box, snap out the broken one, and snap in a good one. Many parts dealers have this part. K-line and Lionel switch controllers can be used with Flyer switches and are cheap too, at least the K-line ones are. You have to cut a gap in the metal plate under the control bow and rewire it with rainbow wire. The bulbs on the controller only light up while you are throwing the switch, but they have the right look for a control panel. Tom Jarcho :-)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15897	From: TWesthelle@aol.com	Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: Re 922 Car

TM guide places the value of excellent for the 922 stamped at $40, $5 less than the value of the decal version. It states rarity at the value 2 for both, on its scale of 1-5, 5 being the rarest. I find TM guide to be a bit more realistic than Greenburg, the 2002 value guide give decal version at $39 and stamped at $36. All values are in excellent condition. RARELY do either of these guides do more than give a relative value comparison, I have never seen this car in excellent condition to go for these prices. Again, its just a GUIDE. Hope this helps. Tom Westhelle

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15898	From: Hannon	Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: Religion

Dave: I'm surprised that Linda hasn't taken to putting random drops of clear nail polish on your tracks. MY PREDICTIONS FOR TODAY 1. God and Linda will get even with you. 2. Linda will get a new car. 3. You will begin to experience mysterious RCU dropouts on all your trains. 4. You will eventually turn to God for help, and God will LAUGH, BECAUSE HE LIKES LINDA AND HER NEW CAR BETTER! (in my humble opinion) Bob

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15899	From: Bill Lane	Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: Blatant self promotion

Hi All, I received the following email privately. I do not receive the email from this list for obvious reasons like the following. I don’t know if it was supposed to be a joke or not. If you don’t like something on Ebay don’t bid on it. Hopefully the author doesn’t post like this often and uses spell check. The rest speaks for itself. Bill -----Original Message----- From: Cbtrainnut1@... [mailto:Cbtrainnut1@...] Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 12:49 AM To: billlane@... Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Blatant self promotion In a message dated 12/10/01 3:53:33 PM Pacific Standard Time, billlane@... writes: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1675820470 <http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1675820470> I'll give you 5 dollas for it. You split shipping cost. Buy it for 30 dollas. Ha! I wanta bargains. I hope you a didn't pay thata much for a piece of plastic with no wheels or paint or nothin, not even coal. If you did. Well, they say there is one born every minute. Hope you get your money back from someone. THE TRAINNUT CHRIS [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15900	From: Wayne and Alice Beachy	Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: New train list

For those who may be interested in a mainly non-scale group, there is a new list for people in all sizes of toy trains. So far, I am the only S gauge member. Go to yahoo and look up whimseytrains. Wayne Beachy Atlantic Coast S Gaugers [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15901	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Die Cast S train!!

Sez the Duck: >I don't know either, but if it's not an AM or SHS train set, we missed a >great marketing opportunity for S! Quack. David, I don't think anyone buying that set cares about the train, even a little. If you made it in 1/64th. scale, nobody would notice. This train is just a vehicle (in both senses of the word) to present the racing cars. It's not even powered! It's nothing but a mounting platform. By the way, on one of the sites where it first appeared, announcing it as a future release, the writer enumerated the contents as an engine and coal car. Perhaps it was first planned as a steamer. Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15902	From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com	Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: Apology

Bill, I apologize about my e-mail to you.It was meant in jest. Unfortunately, it didn't come off that way. I would actually like to get a few so I could decorate them for Christmas and load them with 1/64 scale fruit cakes. You know, the one that gets past back and forth every year. Again , my apologies. THE TRAINNUT CHRIS [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15903	From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com	Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: MTH Coal Loader Pulleys

Can someone tell me who had the fix for the coal loader? A friend in the MVSG has one and wants to speed his up. Thanks. THE TRAINNUT CHRIS [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15904	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: Flat based milk cans

I have some cans that are wood with a steel base, and others that are aluminum with are steel base.Are the wood ones original or just early repros? Keith _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15905	From: bellokdaka@webtv.net	Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: Anybody seen Gabe?

I ordered a Gabe the Lamplighter from Charles Ro in March, delivery was to be in July. In September I called and was told date was postponed until November. Just wondering if anyone knows if there is trouble with the production of this item. Oh Boy! Trains!.............Herky 1950 Obie Bell

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15906	From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com	Date: 12/11/2001
Subject: Yucky e-units

FOR SALE, Just a kidding guys, I got the first unit out and my 302 runs like a new one.(thanks Bob). Thanks to all who tried to help me. THE TRAINNUT CHRIS [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15907	From: TED R LARSON	Date: 12/12/2001
Subject: Clearance

>Subject: Siding Clearance > >Is there a standard clearance when a siding is run to a factory or loading >platform? This is one of the questions that are answered in the NASG S-MOD information pack. The answer shown there is 5'6". Ted Larson Making mashed potatoes with skim milk is like buying a sports car with an automatic transmission. ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15908	From: Craig E Manning	Date: 12/12/2001
Subject: Re: New train list

I have searched YahooClubs and YahooGroups for whimseytrains, whimsytrains, whimsyrail, whimseyrail, done so with the 's' at the end and without it, logged in and searched, everything I can think of and cannot find this new list. What is the address (URL) of the list ? Craig Rolla, MO

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15909	From: Craig E Manning	Date: 12/12/2001
Subject: Re: New train list

OK.....I found it. It's at YahooGroups and it's called whimseyrails type in your browser URL bar : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/whimseyrails/ And you will be magically whicked off to this list, the join button is in the upper right. Craig Rolla, MO

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15910	From: Carl Tuveson	Date: 12/12/2001
Subject: Re: MTH Coal Loader Pulleys

Chris, There were two. One on my web site in the Hints and Tips: http://list.wsbt.com/af And another post: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/message/15574 Carl -----Original Message----- From: Cbtrainnut1@... [mailto:Cbtrainnut1@...] Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 11:05 PM To: S-Trains@egroups.com Subject: [S-Trains] MTH Coal Loader Pulleys Can someone tell me who had the fix for the coal loader? A friend in the MVSG has one and wants to speed his up. Thanks. THE TRAINNUT CHRIS [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15911	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 12/12/2001
Subject: Re: Anybody seen Gabe?

In a message dated 12/11/01 11:49:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, bellokdaka@... writes: << I ordered a Gabe the Lamplighter from Charles Ro in March, delivery was to be in July. In September I called and was told date was postponed until November. >> Flyonel's Gabe is now being delivered to dealers. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15912	From: Hansen, Bruce x4383	Date: 12/12/2001
Subject: Re: Something different...Trains questions !!!

This is my first year setting some AF trains up for Xmas. Naturally some things don't work right so I have some questions 1. The revolving Beacon doesn't ! The bulb seems to get warm but the Beacon top doesn't turn. I have tried giving it a little push but it just stops again. 2. I have a 312 SIT with a sticky e-unit. Can I spray tuner cleaner in through the top or should I remove the shell first ? 3. How can I quiet the Semaphore Sam ? Works great but is noisy as heck. P.S. Is it just me or have others tried " Barrel loading while on the fly " just for the heck of it ? Kinda fun !

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15913	From: Scott Holm	Date: 12/12/2001
Subject: Re: Lionel seaboard coal loader

Any info on when this is coming? --- rbubeck327@... wrote: > In a message dated 12/11/01 11:49:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, > bellokdaka@... writes: > > << I ordered a Gabe the Lamplighter from Charles Ro in March, > delivery was > to be in July. In September I called and was told date was postponed > until November. >> > > Flyonel's Gabe is now being delivered to dealers. > > RB > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15914	From: Scott Holm	Date: 12/12/2001
Subject: Re: Yucky e-units

--- Cbtrainnut1@... wrote: > I got the first unit out and my 302 runs like a new one. No it doesn't; A new one runs in forward and reverse. Just kidding. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15915	From: Scott Holm	Date: 12/12/2001
Subject: Re: Something different...Trains questions !!!

--- "Hansen, Bruce x4383" <hansenbw@...> wrote: > > > 1. The revolving Beacon doesn't ! The bulb seems to get warm but the > Beacon top doesn't turn. I have tried giving it a little push but it > just stops again. This has been covered a lot in the archives. Some suggested brand new bulbs and tops. Doug Peck's are guaranteed to work. Cleaning the pivot points is another thing to try. Another suggestion is to isolate the beacon to a 19 volt transformer, but this also causes the bulb to burn out sooner. Still another suggestion was to put it on the shelf and use the lionel beacon. > > 2. I have a 312 SIT with a sticky e-unit. Can I spray tuner cleaner > in through the top or should I remove the shell first ? You can certainly try it, but to get better accuracy, you'll need to open it up. Try to use a tuner cleaner that doesn't leave an oily residue. The CRC cleaner is the best at not leaving a residue. > 3. How can I quiet the Semaphore Sam ? Works great but is noisy as > heck. Converting the coil circuit(s) to DC with a rectifier might quiet it as has been suggested for the operating caboose, but this won't work with some devices. I don't know if this will work for Sam. > > P.S. Is it just me or have others tried " Barrel loading while on the > fly " just for the heck of it ? Kinda fun ! It's fun until you miss and the barrel wedges in the track and either causes a short, a fire, or a plunge to the concrete. Yes, I have tried it. We also play follow the leader where you try to add and remove objects from your gondola when the train goes zipping by. I'm also reminded of my favorite Ebay auction for a Casey Jones loco where the seller suggested that the engine was good for train demolition derby. Anybody else play train games? The kids really like stuff like this. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15916	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 12/12/2001
Subject: Switch remote

Dear Joe and Jay: I assume you are trying to control AF 720 switches (or more correctly, turnouts). I used to have this problem until I discovered Atlas switch controllers #56. (It is on the Atlas web site.) It is a small black box with a normal looking yellow slide switch. It is a two position slide switch (SPDT for the knowledgeable.) It only makes contact when you press down on the slider. They are much smaller than the AF controller. Wiring is simple and is found on the back of the package. It does not have the wire for the bulb as Atlas turnouts do not a bulb. So wire the bulb directly to a SEPARATE transformer and adjust to 10 volts for a nice glow that will never burn out nor overheat. I expect to hear from someone who will scream the contacts in the Atlas controller are not intended for the load an AF switch impacts. They are right. Mine will burn out sooner. But at $3.15 list and that I haven't yet burned one out in 14 years of use, I don't worry too much. Thorin Message: 20 Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 23:43:55 -0500 From: Jay <jaay_st@...> Subject: Re:Switch remote Hi, In case everyone missed Joe's post, I too would like to ask about switch controls. Can some kind of toggle switch from the likes of radio Shack be used. I am interested because I would like to put all the controls on a control board. Jay -- Jay [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15917	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 12/12/2001
Subject: No mo' reverse units

- Greeting`S' - One member of this list seems to be working on teasing us with his soon-to-be half-filled draw of reversing units. They will have been removed from his locos which will run only forward. An intermediate operation is to replace the reversing unit with a double-poled double-throw slide switch wired just as the A F plant wired the least-expensive Atlantics so many moons ago. The switch is mounted on the same bosses as the tender wire receptacle under the cab roof. Cheer`S' Rhett

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15918	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 12/12/2001
Subject: Re: A Christmas story - Off topic

Thanks for sharing. It is a tear jerker. I heard one on NPR many years ago about a woman who as a child wanted a red wagon. This is purely from my memory but here it goes: "There was one thing I wanted more than anything else for Christmas: a red wagon. On Christmas morning I didn't my wagon. Oh, ether were the normal dolls and clothes and such but I was very sad. Finally I told my parents what I had wanted. My parents wandered off and I saw them parents talking together. Then papa went to the phone and asked for long distance. "That afternoon, when the train was due, papa asked who wanted to go down to the station. This being a fairly normal activity everyone went, even the baby. "Well the train pulled into the station and the conductor pulled open the Southern Railway baggage car, looked down at me, and said "Santa made an error and delivered this to the wrong town. This is for you." He handed down a brand new red wagon, complete with a red ribbon on the handle. I pulled my new red wagon all the way home." I was driving home when I heard this. I tried to keep it in my brain so I could retell it to my wife as soon as I got home, which I did. Again, this is from memory and I only heard it once. Peace, Thorin Message: 3 Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2001 16:57:17 -0500 From: Paul Yorke <yorke@...> Subject: a christmas story - Off topic If you can listen to this story and not be moved ... http://www.npr.org/ramfiles/wesun/20001224.wesun.08.ram [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15919	From: TWesthelle@aol.com	Date: 12/12/2001
Subject: AF LTI Northern Pacific Set 1992 #49602 Mint

I am getting ready to list on EBay this mint/sealed in the box set I acquired two years ago. I have been fortunate enough to obtain the AF Gilbert 1958 set, so am looking to find a good home for this set. Not trying to use the list for sale items, just thought with all the people here that shop EBay, this will be offered less as an outright sale than thru EBay bidding. If anyone has an interest in this set, please contact me by personal email. Thanks, Tom Westhelle Oviedo, FL 32765

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15920	From: jfrr54	Date: 12/12/2001
Subject: Sam the Semiphore Man

I have a Sam that appears to work, except that he has a short in him somewhere that appears intermittently. How do you find the short in Sam? Thanks in advance John Rodgers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15921	From: lou342ac	Date: 12/12/2001
Subject: Mighty Machines

I was in Rite Aid the other day and saw some very interesting 1/64" scale flat bed & transport haulers. They come with Ford/Chevrolet Hot Rods & Stock Cars as loads. They appear to be well made and are priced at $4.99 each. Rite Aid has stores in Central Maryland, Pennslyvania and Northern Virginia. They may have stores in Delaware also. Below are some links for you to view. If the links don't work the web address is www.imperialtoy.com, click on toys then on mighty machines. http://www.imperialtoy.com/toys.php?cat=19-Mighty-Machines&item=03961 http://www.imperialtoy.com/toys.php?cat=19-Mighty-Machines&item=03962 http://www.imperialtoy.com/toys.php?cat=19-Mighty-Machines&item=03978

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15922	From: tomsmitty2001	Date: 12/12/2001
Subject: af turnout controllers

Someone in the last few days was asking about controllers for af turnouts, see the following:http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll? ViewItem&item=1676795196 Regard"s", Smitty

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15923	From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com	Date: 12/12/2001
Subject: Fwd: [S-Trains] No mo' reverse units

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15924	From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com	Date: 12/12/2001
Subject: (no subject)

Hi Rhett, I don't mean to tease, but I run my trains constantly on the weekends for train shows, open houses, and this weekend for the Dayton Philharmonic Orchestra's Pop's concert. There will about 4000 people by the display in 2 nights. I can't spend time fooling with e-units when they decide to go stupid on me. I may try the idea of the DPDT slide switch. I do have one Atlantic set up this way. Our neighborhood is having a holiday tour this weekend, but the trains won't be hear. Actually, I can't be both places at the same time. THE TRAINNUT CHRIS [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15925	From: Doug Peck	Date: 12/12/2001
Subject: Re: PVL parts

<< Does anyone have a name and number/email address for a Plasticville parts dealer? >> We also carry just about all the PVL repro parts that exist! Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@... VISA --MC--DISCOVER--AMEX--PAYPAL Accepted. NEW ! View our entire AF Parts Catalog On-Line !!!!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15926	From: John L.	Date: 12/12/2001
Subject: FLYONEL E UNIT

I recently purchased an American Flyer (Lionel) Erie A unit Alco locomotive #8251. The electronic e unit is defective in it. Runs in one directon only. Where can I get a replacement e unit? Is there a generic substitute etc.? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks for reading my email.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15927	From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com	Date: 12/12/2001
Subject: Plasticville

Doug Peck wrote: We also carry just about all the PVL repro parts that exist! Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@... VISA --MC--DISCOVER--AMEX--PAYPAL Accepted. NEW ! View our entire AF Parts Catalog On-Line !!!! Gee, go figure!!!!!!LOL! Doug, what don't you have? Received my wheels the other day, the pair from Vulcan, and they look great. Can't wait to get them out on. Question, what is the cost of the 8 wheel quartering tool? And should I be sitting down when I read the reply? THE TRAINNUT CHRIS [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15928	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 12/12/2001
Subject: switch remote

If you follow Marty Thorin's suggestion to use a separate transformer to power the lamps in Flyer switches. be careful! The transformer which powers the switch motors and the transformer that powers the ;amps should be placed in phase with each other and their base posts connected. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15929	From: TWesthelle@aol.com	Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: 970 Walking Brakeman

I have come across a metal, or casted walking brakeman that sits, excuse me, runs along the 970, and also the same piece, excuse me again, worker, that throws lumber from the 971. I believe this to be a repo, just looking for verification of this. Thanks, Tom Westhelle Oviedo, FL 32765

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15930	From: rodgers_carl	Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: Who really makes parts?

Does anybody know which AF parts dealers actually make the parts they sell, or are they all just middle men?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15931	From: neil.trump@bt.com	Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: Re: FLYONEL E UNIT

I also have a Lionel electronic reverse unit that runs in one direction only, I seem to remember that there are what looks like two power transistors? mounted on the edge of the board. Is it one of these that fails and if so can you get replacements for them? If this is not the problem has anyone faulted one and found out what does fail on them? Neil T.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15932	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: Re: Lionel seaboard coal loader

In a message dated 12/12/01 11:24:37 AM Eastern Standard Time, imsscott@... writes: << Any info on when this is coming? >> i.e., Seaboard According to the Lionel web site*, the arrival date is December. The advance preproduction prototype was on display at York. RB * www.Lionel.com -- click on "Customer service" in the menu on the Lionel home page, and then select "Shipping Dates." Items are listed on order of their catalog numbers --> that way you can all see when the next great thing in O gauge is coming. <grin> Flyonel, such as it is, is also listed.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15933	From: Horn, David	Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: ACG AF reverse units

Hey, other than the occasional skip, these are good units that can be made to operate very reliably. You just have to be patient, thorough, and careful with them. Or pay someone who knows how to work on it for you. Frankly it never ceases to amaze me how many people buy 45-55 year old engines and expect a squirt-squirt here or a drop of this there should make them "run like new". Sorry, but unless you strictly buy engines that were very lightly used yet very well maintained and stored under just-right conditions, there is going to be some work to do. And that takes some learning, a lot of patience, and a bit of time to get it right. But the results are always well worth it. Instead of "what can I do fast", try starting with a thorough cleaning (I mean everything off, dip the chassis, pick the old grease out of every tooth on the gears, that kind of cleaning), replace worn parts, repair others, lubricate, tune, and test. That alone might take you a few weeks of evening work depending on the engine and its general condition, but what's the rush? When you're finally done, that engine's going to be a ton of fun to run, and you will have done a nice job of refreshing a treasured piece of Americana (just take a look at that "Made in New Haven, Conn. USA" stamping and tell me you don't reminisce a little). If a reverse unit in particular is driving you nuts, and you've tried all the "quick fixes" around, take it apart, clean the drum, replace the fingers (carefully). I fill the cupped ends with solder for body and heat sink purposes. Adjust the pressure they exert on the drum, and tweak the ratchet before reinstalling the shell (diesel body or tender) until you're satisfied with it. This might take you 3 or 4 nights instead of 10 minutes, but you'll get months, years, decades (?) of honest work out of one of these if you try. Geez, I mean you wouldn't expect to buy a '57 Chevy, just through in a new battery and drive off to the races......or would you? Love 'em a little, They'll love you back. Dave The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for the addressee(s). BEST! Software, Inc. disclaims any responsibility for the contents of this message, including any attachments. The views expressed in this message are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect the views of the company or any other employee of the company. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, please notify BEST! Software, Inc. immediately by E-mailing Postmaster@... and destroy all copies of this message.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15934	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: Re: FLYONEL E UNIT

Some years ago I did obtain new power transistors from some "Big L" parts dealer--I've forgotten who it was. This did repair the reverse board, but I was warned that these were the "Achilles heel" of the Flyonel units, as they are operated at the edge of their design performance and a few derails can be enough to fry them. Now I wish I knew where, or if I made them, my notes are! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15935	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: Re: ACG AF reverse units

Geee, just the other day I went to look at a '26 T that had been parked since 1951. I was hoping that some tires, oil and battery, and I have a driver! Well, the engine still turns over, but there were other problems (like rotten wheel spokes), so I didn't buy it--BUT!!!! the analogy David H. brought up is very good. Yep, the old AF engine may still turn over, but she'll need a careful cleaning. Only when you really know these puppies can you *sometimes* cut a few corners (I just put a 336 back on the rails that I didn't have to pull the chassis from the body--but the reverse unit got a cleaning, as did the motor and it's gears (YES, you can pull an armature "in the shell" on some locos)). On the other hand, the 1946 322 I picked up recently, with the cars still in their boxes, is in one of my project trays in as many pieces as I can take down to! It was "too far gone" to fix it any other way. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15936	From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com	Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: Re: ACG AF reverse units

Hi David, Thanks for the hot to clinic. I save and print these helpful hints. My biggest problem is this. I just had carpel tunnel surgery on both of my hands recently. Still only 4 weeks for the second hand. Still very swollen and painful most days. I have a train show almost every weekend of Dec, and Jan. I don't have time or patience to tinker. I've got to be highballin man! Someday, I'll have the time and patience to put all the e-units back in and running right. THE TRAINNUT CHRIS [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15937	From: Horn, David	Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: Re: ACG AF reverse units

David D, I agree. Once you know these beasts, you can sometimes apply just a few key procedures to, for example, see "how much life there is in there". John R's DOA 283, for example, turned out to be a screamer in disguise, but still I recommended he follow up with more thorough measures for it to be completely ready, at least IMHO, for prime time. On other occasions just a little battle-field surgery can significantly pep up slow pokes on the spot. At a recent charity show, I had the privilege of "tuning" a few Hudsons. They all responded well with improved running, but again, I recommended more thorough measures as follow up. On the more rare occasion, but I have had the thrill of it occurring, you come across a unit that actually requires very little work to be completely back in action. However, more often than not I find it helpful to simply resign myself to the fact that a thorough tear down, then build up is the way to go. Less futzing and fussing in the end. -----Original Message----- From: David Dewey [mailto:djdewey@...] Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 10:53 AM To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com; Horn, David Subject: Re: [S-Trains] ACG AF reverse units Geee, just the other day I went to look at a '26 T that had been parked since 1951. I was hoping that some tires, oil and battery, and I have a driver! Well, the engine still turns over, but there were other problems (like rotten wheel spokes), so I didn't buy it--BUT!!!! the analogy David H. brought up is very good. Yep, the old AF engine may still turn over, but she'll need a careful cleaning. Only when you really know these puppies can you *sometimes* cut a few corners (I just put a 336 back on the rails that I didn't have to pull the chassis from the body--but the reverse unit got a cleaning, as did the motor and it's gears (YES, you can pull an armature "in the shell" on some locos)). On the other hand, the 1946 322 I picked up recently, with the cars still in their boxes, is in one of my project trays in as many pieces as I can take down to! It was "too far gone" to fix it any other way. S' David D. The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for the addressee(s). BEST! Software, Inc. disclaims any responsibility for the contents of this message, including any attachments. The views expressed in this message are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect the views of the company or any other employee of the company. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, please notify BEST! Software, Inc. immediately by E-mailing Postmaster@... and destroy all copies of this message.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15938	From: Carl Tuveson	Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: Re: FLYONEL E UNIT

Radio Shack has transistors that will do the job just fine. They are part#: 276-2017 (TIP31)and 276-2027 (TIP42) They are not that hard to replace if you can solder etc.. Carl -----Original Message----- From: David Dewey [mailto:djdewey@...] Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 10:45 AM To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com; neil.trump@... Subject: Re: [S-Trains] FLYONEL E UNIT Some years ago I did obtain new power transistors from some "Big L" parts dealer--I've forgotten who it was. This did repair the reverse board, but I was warned that these were the "Achilles heel" of the Flyonel units, as they are operated at the edge of their design performance and a few derails can be enough to fry them. Now I wish I knew where, or if I made them, my notes are! S' David D. S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15939	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: Atlas controllers for AF switches

In a message dated 12/13/2001 2:28:27 AM Mountain Standard Time, S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes: > . > I expect to hear from someone who will scream the contacts in the > Atlas > controller are not intended for the load an AF switch impacts. They are > right. Mine will burn out sooner. But at $3.15 list and that I haven't > yet > burned one out in 14 years of use, I don't worry too much. > > Thorin > > You sure won't here that from me because it's the same solution I came up with many years ago. They won't burn out unless you are hitting them with high voltage and holding the contact slide down too long. (often necessary in the older 720 switches) If AC Gilbert called them switches I will too. If they do burn out you can fix them with a size 22 jumper wire anyway. 10/4 on the inexpensive, and not taking up tons of space on your control panel either. Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15940	From: IronHorse	Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: Re: Who really makes parts?

I have asked this question a number of times. The answer is always from someone saying, "We stock the parts". So far, no one claims to make them. rodgers_carl wrote: > Does anybody know which AF parts dealers actually make the parts they > sell, or are they all just middle men? > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15941	From: af21115	Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: Re: Who really makes parts?

I know Lionel makes a lot of parts many vendors sell. R.F. Gardinia claims to manufacture a good amount of parts. I am sure Doug Peck of Port Lines can shed some more light on this matter.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15942	From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT	Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: Re: Who really makes parts?

I THINK THAT YOU WILL FIND THAT A LOT OF PARTS ARE MADE IN SMALL HOME SHOPS. THESE ARE THEN SOLD TO THE PARTS SUPPLIERS. IF YOU MAKE A GOOD PART, PRICED REASONABLLY, YOU WILL FIND DEALERS WHO WILL STOCK AND ADVERTISE THEM. I HAVE SOME MOLDS FOR HOPPER STEPS NOW THAT I AM TRYING TO WORK ON...BOB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15943	From: yazfacts	Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: M.T.H. 787 Log Loader ??

Dear Group , Does anyone know when M.T.H. is going to release their version of the Gilbert # 787 Log Loader ?? Back in October when I was at York, I stopped at their booth and asked them and they said in about six weeks. It's been about eight weeks and I haven't heard anything.Please post any and all responces. Thanks ......Bob

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15944	From: Doug Peck	Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: Re: Quartering

<<Gee, go figure!!!!!!LOL! Doug, what don't you have? Received my wheels the other day, the pair from Vulcan, and they look great. Can't wait to get them out on. Question, what is the cost of the 8 wheel quartering tool? And should I be sitting down when I read the reply? THE TRAINNUT CHRIS >> We DON'T have any N, HO, or O gauge equipment!!!! (Well.....not very much, anyway...........) The 8-wheel Quartering Tool is...........$115. Personally, I can quarter a 4 or 6-wheel engine by eye......but I have never been successful with a Northern by eye. I always use the tool.......and it is very well made. Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@... VISA --MC--DISCOVER--AMEX--PAYPAL Accepted. NEW ! View our entire AF Parts Catalog On-Line !!!!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15945	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: What the heck is it?

Someone sent me these pictures, can you ID it? Looks like sheet metal Flyer. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/What_the_heck/whatisit.html ===== Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com Photography - Computers - Trains __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15946	From: ron inscho	Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: Re: What the heck is it?

this is the bottom of a pre war 3/16 o gauge hopper car ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Yorke" <s_trains@...> To: "slist" <s-trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 6:21 PM Subject: [S-Trains] What the heck is it? > Someone sent me these pictures, can you ID it? > Looks like sheet metal Flyer. > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/What_the_heck/whatisit.html > > ===== > Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com > Photography - Computers - Trains > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of > your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com > or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15947	From: Howard Sheffield	Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: Re: ACG AF reverse units

What David doesn't say is that the 336 is mine and he did the repair on the desk in my home office. He and Linda stayed overnight after a club party and I discovered 336 parts all over my papers ect on the desk when I went in to see what the noise was early in the am. Nothing to do but go make coffee and hope there weren't any parts left over later. The engine did run great after and looked good pulling a long set of SP daylight heavyweights on the layout.----Thanks David. >Geee, just the other day I went to look at a '26 T that had been parked >since 1951. I was hoping that some tires, oil and battery, and I have a >driver! Well, the engine still turns over, but there were other problems >(like rotten wheel spokes), so I didn't buy it--BUT!!!! the analogy David H. >brought up is very good. Yep, the old AF engine may still turn over, but >she'll need a careful cleaning. Only when you really know these puppies can >you *sometimes* cut a few corners (I just put a 336 back on the rails that I >didn't have to pull the chassis from the body--but the reverse unit got a >cleaning, as did the motor and it's gears (YES, you can pull an armature "in >the shell" on some locos)). On the other hand, the 1946 322 I picked up >recently, with the cars still in their boxes, is in one of my project trays >in as many pieces as I can take down to! It was "too far gone" to fix it any >other way. >S' >David D. > > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > _______________________________________________________________________ Free Domain Name Registration with Web Hosting at Lanset Communications. 56k Dialup, Web Design, and Colocation at http://www.lanset.net

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15948	From: gino restivo	Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: re.... who makes the parts .... ?

hi to all , merry x-mas .... ? , who makes the parts ? I MAKE a bunch of the parts .. they are priced according to the cost of making them ........ is their something you need made ? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15949	From: af21115	Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: Re: What the heck is it?

Innards/Frame to a Pre War O gauge hopper car. Wish Gilbert would have carried that over into the Post War era instead of the 716.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15950	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: Re: What the heck is it?

Looks like a prewar Flyer 3 rail hopper base from what I can make out from the picture. I've seen them in that color. Paul Yorke wrote: > > Someone sent me these pictures, can you ID it? > Looks like sheet metal Flyer. > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/What_the_heck/whatisit.html > > ===== > Paul Yorke - S-Trains.com > Photography - Computers - Trains > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of > your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com > or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15951	From: SMASTER636@aol.com	Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: AF Steam Whistle

First, I'd like to thank everyone for the response to my AF remote control switch dilema. For now I went with Radio Shack Momentarily On Throw Switches. They work great. Total cost including: $7.00. I'll use them temporarily until I purchase the Gilbert plastic switch control box. Next problem: The Steam Whistle for my AF 21099 locomotive does not work. I bought a new generator tube, but still no whistle. The tube is vibrating but no steam whistle sound. Any and all suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Joe Fariello Cooper City, FL.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15952	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: 1/64 cars

I was at a Dodge dealer yesterday picking up the company truck that had been repaired. While waiting at the cashier/parts area I saw what looked like a veritable toy store! Although I didn't see any for the time frame I wanted (late 40s to early 60s) there were lots of Johnny Lightning and several other brands of 1/64 cars for sale. Most of the Johnny Lightnings were early to late 70s Dodge muscle cars. There was nothing more than $6.95. Just another source you guys may want to check out. Also, if there are any in your areas, all the different tractor/farm equipment dealers carry diecast tractors, vehicles, etc. in various sizes. Worth a look. Roger Petrella Franktown, CO

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15953	From: bilfrazier@aol.com	Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: Re: E unit

In a message dated 12/13/01 4:28:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes: > > Message: 20 > Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 22:33:48 -0500 > From: "John L." <larry.asp@...> > Subject: FLYONEL E UNIT > > I recently purchased an American Flyer (Lionel) Erie A unit Alco > locomotive #8251. The electronic e unit is defective in it. Runs in one > directon only. Where can I get a replacement e unit? Is there a generic > substitute etc.? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks for reading my > email. > > > > I've got one in new condition from a (4)8008 NH EP-5, 1991 production. Measures about 1 1/8" by 3 1/2" not counting the heat sink that it mounts to the chassis by. Does this sound like what you have? I'll sell it for $20 plus shipping. Or, I have a couple of S Helper units which might or might not work, as the Lionel motor draws more current than the better quality S Helper motors. Bill Frazier [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15954	From: Lance McCold	Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: A Revolving Beacon Solution

I found a solution for my beacon. Maybe it will work for you. I restored an old beacon. I bought a new bulb and reproduction top. It lighted up nice, but no movement. After staring at it a while, I tried to close the vanes down a little. This time it kept going longer after I gave it a push. I closed them down some more and it started and ran by itself. My theory is that the hot air rising through the vanes was getting through too easily, that is, almost straight up. To make the beacon go around, the hot air has to push on the sides of the vanes. By closing the vanes down, the hot air has to change directions to get out the top--forcing the beacon top to rotate. I hope it works for you. Lance Message: 6 Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 07:50:43 -0800 From: "Hansen, Bruce x4383" <hansenbw@...> Subject: RE: Something different...Trains questions !!! This is my first year setting some AF trains up for Xmas. Naturally some things don't work right so I have some questions 1. The revolving Beacon doesn't ! The bulb seems to get warm but the Beacon top doesn't turn. I have tried giving it a little push but it just stops again.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15955	From: Bill Lane	Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: PRR boiler weight

Hi All, I am wondering if anyone is in need of a larger boiler weight for their Omnicon M-1, K-4 or L-1. The weight in the M-1 out of the box is just about non-existent. I took some measurements, and then designed a steel mold for casting a larger weight for these engines. It is currently drilled for the 2 screws to bolt right up to the M-1. You may have to drill 1 hole in the bottom of the boiler for the L-1 and K-4. The weight has 2 bushings in it tapped for 2-56 screws. I guarantee that they will not spin in the weight. This weight MAY work for other engines as well, but I will not guarantee it. It measures 1.12 dia. and 4.32 long. It has some recesses for the gear tower and smoke stack casting. According to an old Postal scale that Ed L. gave me a while ago, it is over 1 pound. It pinned the scale to the bottom. But, there is still room to fish wires to the front for a headlight. I also plan on putting the DCC decoder between the boiler and the weight just in front of the motor. Please contact me if interested. Thanks Bill

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15956	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: Who Makes the Parts

"rodgers_carl" <rodgers_carl@...> wrote: <Subject: Who really makes parts? < <Does anybody know which AF parts dealers actually <make the parts they <sell, or are they all just middle men? I did not answer Carl's questions because it seemed somewhat obtuse. Some parts are made for me, and a few I fabricate myself. Others I have to paint, assemble, etc. I get my parts from more than 30 different suppliers ranging from Lionel, MTH, and K-Line to people who make only one or two parts. The most difficult part of this job is ordering parts from so many suppliers. I don't get to just call up someone and say "send me the parts that I need." AC Gilbert went out of business 35 years ago. Joe ===== Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,300 part lines American Models ## S-Helper Service ## Gilbert Rerpoductions Featuring Parts by Toy Trains International joestrainrepair@... Master Card/Visa __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15957	From: Mike Vana	Date: 12/13/2001
Subject: Lionel/ AF Reverse Units

When my Lionel/AF Erie PA1's reverse unit failed, and I saw that it had can motors that were really DC, I removed the reverse unit, and rewired it to run on DC. There is less to go wrong that way. I later did the same with the MP and UP PA's, and then repowered the trouble-prone SP and B&O PA's with the DC can motors. (When it comes to Lionel production AF, I am an operator and not a collector.) I wish sometimes that all the original AF was DC. I certainly enjoy my 342DC's and a 332 which is DC also. I have converted some other non-original AF locos to DC, as well as removing those reverse units completely from an A.M. S12 and SHS SW1. I have toggle switches to run either AC or DC, with the DC run from Rix handheld throttles. Switching is sure a lot easier with DC. Has anybody ever tried switching with two or three powered AF diesels that weren't locked in one direction? It certainly was frustrating when I was young and did it. Mike Vana Omaha, NE.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15958	From: TED R LARSON	Date: 12/14/2001
Subject: Detail Parts

Several years ago I read (in the Dispatch?) about a detail kit available for adding the visual bolts, bars, braces, etc to frogs and points. Does anybody know about that? Is it still available? Where? Ted Larson Making mashed potatoes with skim milk is like buying a sports car with an automatic transmission. ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15959	From: ALLAN V EISENHAUR	Date: 12/14/2001
Subject: FLYONEL E UNIT

Merry Christmas All Dallee makes a universal electronic e-unit ( #400 ), It will work with AC or DC motors. They also have a lot of other electronic gadgets that can be used with S. www.dallee.com AL ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15960	From: ALLAN V EISENHAUR	Date: 12/14/2001
Subject: Federal Bill 602p

Is this old or current news ? Sorry if it not appropriate for the list but I thought I should pass it on as we all send emails. AL Federal Bill 602p Guess the warnings were true. Federal Bill 602P 5-cents per E-mail sent. It figures! No more free E-mail! We knew this was coming!! Bill 602P will permit the Federal Government to charge a 5-cent charge on every delivered E-mail. Please read the following carefully if you intend to stay online and continue using E-mail. The last few months have revealed an alarming trend in the Government of the United States attempting to quietly push through legislation that will affect our use of the Internet. Under proposed legislation, the US Postal Service will be attempting to bill E-mail users out of "alternative postage fees." Bill 602P will permit the Federal Government to charge a 5-cent surcharge on every e-mail delivered, by billing Internet Service Providers at source. The consumer would then be billed in turn by the ISP. Washington DC lawyer Richard Stepp is working without pay to prevent this legislation from becoming law. The US Postal Service is claiming lost revenue, due to the proliferation of E-mail, is costing nearly $230,000,000 in revenue per year. You may have noticed their recent ad campaign: "There is nothing like a letter." Since the average person received about 10 pieces of E-mail per day in 1998, the cost of the typical individual would be an additional 50 cents a day -- or over $180 per year -- above and beyond their regular Internet costs. Note that this would be money paid directly to the US Postal Service for a service they do not even provide. The whole point of the Internet is democracy and noninterference. You are already paying an exorbitant price for snail mail because of bureaucratic inefficiency. It currently takes up to 6 days for a letter to be delivered from coast to coast. If the US Postal Service is allowed to tinker with E-mail, it will mark the end of the "free" Internet in the United States. Congressional representative, Tony Schnell (R) has even suggested a "$20-$40 per month surcharge on all Internet service" above and beyond the governments proposed E-mail charges. Note that most of the major newspapers have ignored the story the only exception being the Washingtonian which called the idea of E-mail surcharge "a useful concept who's time has come" (March 6th, 1999 Editorial). Do not sit by and watch your freedom erode away! Send this E-mail to EVERYONE on your list, and tell all your friends and relatives to write their congressional representative and say "NO" to Bill 602P. It will only take a few moments of your time and could very well be instrumental in killing a bill we do not want. PLEASE FORWARD! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15961	From: dwightlehnhoff	Date: 12/14/2001
Subject: MTH SAWMILL

Has the MTH sawmill been produced yet. My hobby shop couldn't find it in his data base. Dwight Lehnhoff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15962	From: David A. Highfield	Date: 12/14/2001
Subject: Re: Federal Bill 602p

"Federal Bill 602P 5-cents per E-mail sent." This is basically an urban legend. Forgetaboutit. Become alarmed when AF operators are taxed for the amount of enjoyment we have in playing with our trains. This could amount to big bucks. Dave

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15963	From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com	Date: 12/14/2001
Subject: Re: Federal Bill 602p

Allen, you must be rather new to the internet. This one has been going around for years. When I first got online and saw this 4 years ago, I e-mailed my congressman, then found out it's a "HOAX" e-mail. Anytime you get one like this go to www.urban legends .com and type in the subject matter, you will usuall find how the story started and when. Don't feel too bad though, we all fall for one or two of them. THE TRAINNUT CHRIS [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15964	From: Craig E Manning	Date: 12/14/2001
Subject: Re: Federal Bill 602p

Uhmmm, you all can read about this at THE site for Internet related hoaxes. UrbanLegends at About.com http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/blemtax2.htm The articles for this surface from time to time and this one, quoting a bill 602p and a Congressman Schnell has been circulating at least on 2 separate occasions this year alone. It has been started in Canada before, has been reported to be in a Postal Rate increase proposal, all kinds of people are falling for this and it is absolutely false. It is a hoax. There is no such Congressman "Schnell" and there is no such Bill #602p Think about it. How would they monitor it ? 130 million internet users. C'mon guys..... The page I forwarded should take you directly to the story on this. Next time you hear something that sounds outraegous, it probably is, but all ya gotta do is visit urbanlegends.about.com and see what their appraisal is. Nuff said. Craig Manning Rolla, MO ALLAN V EISENHAUR To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com <aleisen@juno cc: .com> Subject: [S-Trains] Federal Bill 602p 12/14/01 08:21 AM Is this old or current news ? Sorry if it not appropriate for the list but I thought I should pass it on as we all send emails. AL Federal Bill 602p Guess the warnings were true. Federal Bill 602P 5-cents per E-mail sent. It figures! No more free E-mail! We knew this was coming!! Bill 602P will permit the Federal Government to charge a 5-cent charge on every delivered E-mail. Please read the following carefully if you intend to stay online and continue using E-mail. The last few months have revealed an alarming trend in the Government of the United States attempting to quietly push through legislation that will affect our use of the Internet. Under proposed legislation, the US Postal Service will be attempting to bill E-mail users out of "alternative postage fees." Bill 602P will permit the Federal Government to charge a 5-cent surcharge on every e-mail delivered, by billing Internet Service Providers at source. The consumer would then be billed in turn by the ISP. Washington DC lawyer Richard Stepp is working without pay to prevent this legislation from becoming law. The US Postal Service is claiming lost revenue, due to the proliferation of E-mail, is costing nearly $230,000,000 in revenue per year. You may have noticed their recent ad campaign: "There is nothing like a letter." Since the average person received about 10 pieces of E-mail per day in 1998, the cost of the typical individual would be an additional 50 cents a day -- or over $180 per year -- above and beyond their regular Internet costs. Note that this would be money paid directly to the US Postal Service for a service they do not even provide. The whole point of the Internet is democracy and noninterference. You are already paying an exorbitant price for snail mail because of bureaucratic inefficiency. It currently takes up to 6 days for a letter to be delivered from coast to coast. If the US Postal Service is allowed to tinker with E-mail, it will mark the end of the "free" Internet in the United States. Congressional representative, Tony Schnell (R) has even suggested a "$20-$40 per month surcharge on all Internet service" above and beyond the governments proposed E-mail charges. Note that most of the major newspapers have ignored the story the only exception being the Washingtonian which called the idea of E-mail surcharge "a useful concept who's time has come" (March 6th, 1999 Editorial). Do not sit by and watch your freedom erode away! Send this E-mail to EVERYONE on your list, and tell all your friends and relatives to write their congressional representative and say "NO" to Bill 602P. It will only take a few moments of your time and could very well be instrumental in killing a bill we do not want. PLEASE FORWARD! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15965	From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT	Date: 12/14/2001
Subject: Re: MTH SAWMILL

MINE CAME THE OTHER DAY....NOW HAVE BOTH...BOB ----- Original Message ----- From: "dwightlehnhoff" <dlehnhoff@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 9:34 AM Subject: [S-Trains] MTH SAWMILL > Has the MTH sawmill been produced yet. My hobby shop couldn't find > it in his data base. > > Dwight Lehnhoff > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15966	From: Scott Brown	Date: 12/14/2001
Subject: Re: MTH SAWMILL

Yes the MTH sawmill hit my local train store over a week ago. Scott Brown ----- Original Message ----- From: "dwightlehnhoff" <dlehnhoff@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 9:34 AM Subject: [S-Trains] MTH SAWMILL > Has the MTH sawmill been produced yet. My hobby shop couldn't find > it in his data base. > > Dwight Lehnhoff > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15967	From: af21115	Date: 12/14/2001
Subject: Use Caution.....

AF friends, use caution when searching on E-Bay. If you come across this auction #1677877668 avoid it. In my opinion this seller is a bit shady. Why... 1.) In this listing they claim they have no digital camera at this time... all their other current auctions have digital pictures, and in the past their auctions have had pictures as well. Strange that now all of a sudden the camera didn't exist. 2.) Its now a private auction. Why? Well this seller before tried to sell a circus set as "All Original", and the loco was clearly restored. If this is the same set in this lot, the description is still incorrect. I would not doubt that this auction is private because in previous attempts to sell that set others have clued the bidders in to the fact that the set(s) being offered were not as described, and they retracted bids. This auction is a nightmare waiting to happen IMHO.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15968	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 12/14/2001
Subject: HAPPY HOLIDAYS

Just a short holiday note to say that this year we are running a circus train under the tree. The track is a beautiful loop of SHS S Trax. The engine is painted as a circus 353 but it was salvaged from a 356 so it has a smoking unit. A 715 Auto unloading car has a 1929 yellow and black Lincoln touring car for the owner, next a repro flat car with two circus vans, the passenger car is the only original circus piece followed by a repro circus flat with a repro Gilbert truck and cages. A 24631 yellow caboose seemed right to bring up the rear. This all runs over cotton batting with Lemax ceramic buildings in the village. MERRY CHRISTMAS from our layout to yours. You may visit the North Penn S Gaugers layout at: http://npsg3.homestead.com/files/npsgi.htm or you may visit my model railroad by going to: http://www.geocities.com/glenn_ritter/index.html then go to: "My Model Railroad". Sorry but I don't have our Christmas layout on the website. Staying on the NPSG branchline of NASG track, Glenn NASG Secretary http://www.jesusiscoming.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15969	From: Craig E Manning	Date: 12/14/2001
Subject: Re: Use Caution.....

This person has 88 postive feedbacks, 46 in the last 6 months, 4 in the last month and zero negative, zero neutral and no bid retractions. Maybe their images are done by an outside source, some are, and this is a HUGE collection, so I could understand where it might be impossible to get all that stuff to the source for digital images. If you read the feedbacks, it appears that they are excellent sellers. I only perused the list about 4 pages, but this seems like a reasonable auction. The reserve is not yet met and it will not sell till that is done. Buyer can email the seller and I have asked before of a seller for his reserve price and they told me, they want to sell. I can't afford several thousand for this auction, already over $1000 and it may not ever reach their reserve, so we won't be seeing this set in my house, if I plan on living through the Christmas Holidays anywayz. Craig Rolla, MO "af21115" <Dave0616@ATT To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com .NET> cc: Subject: [S-Trains] Use Caution..... 12/14/01 11:36 AM AF friends, use caution when searching on E-Bay. If you come across this auction #1677877668 avoid it. In my opinion this seller is a bit shady. Why... 1.) In this listing they claim they have no digital camera at this time... all their other current auctions have digital pictures, and in the past their auctions have had pictures as well. Strange that now all of a sudden the camera didn't exist. 2.) Its now a private auction. Why? Well this seller before tried to sell a circus set as "All Original", and the loco was clearly restored. If this is the same set in this lot, the description is still incorrect. I would not doubt that this auction is private because in previous attempts to sell that set others have clued the bidders in to the fact that the set(s) being offered were not as described, and they retracted bids. This auction is a nightmare waiting to happen IMHO. S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15970	From: trzp1800	Date: 12/14/2001
Subject: 15B Transformer, Proper reassembly

Hello: Figured i'd start off my new membership in the group with a couple of questions. I recently purchased a well used 15B transformer. Have taken it apart and cleaned up everything, tightened the transformer plates, put a shine back on the case and have "adjusted" the circuit breaker so it actually trips under a direct short. 1. Is there a way to fine tune my rough adjustment of the circuit breaker so it doesn't unnecessarily trip under load? 2. How is the contact lever supposed to be adjusted? The dead man didn't work when i bought the unit. I have adjusted the contact lever so it is not in constant contact with the coils, the default off position i am assuming. When the top cover is put on the base, with the contact rod and control knob mounted on it, they push the contact lever down onto the coils, without the control lever being pushed down onto the unit and locked in place. Do i bend the short copper arm on the control rod up to create more clearance? I assume the arm is supposed to point toward the coils. The K-Line book is not much help in reassembly, it shows the short arm pointing towards the front, tried that and it doesn't appear to me this can work as it doesn't come anywhere near the end of the contact lever that needs to be pushed down. Thanks in advance.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15971	From: W. Thomas Boussum	Date: 12/14/2001
Subject: Restoration question.

Help! I recently acquired a Gilbert Royal Blue locomotive and tender that some previous owner drilled and tapped four holes in the top to install a pantograph. I removed the pantograph and tried to fill in the holes with epoxy, but it did not take. All I had was four holes with epoxy rings inside. Does anyone have a suggestion for successfully filling in these holes? Since the locomotive's value has been diminished, I plan to repaint it to conform to the B&O original scheme to use as an operator's piece. Thanks. W. Thomas Boussum "If you want to bake an apple pie from scratch, you must start by creating the universe." Carl Sagan in "Cosmos."

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15972	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/14/2001
Subject: Re: Restoration question.

Hi, Just a suggestion here, but try JB Weld, found at auto parts stores such as Pep Boys. I believe it would fill the hole and harden so you could sand it smooth and repaint. Despite your best efforts, you may still see tiny ring marks where the holes used to be. Regards, Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: "W. Thomas Boussum" <euler@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 2:36 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Restoration question. > Help! > I recently acquired a Gilbert Royal Blue locomotive and tender that > some previous owner drilled and tapped four holes in the top to install > a pantograph. I removed the pantograph and tried to fill in the holes > with epoxy, but it did not take. All I had was four holes with epoxy > rings inside. > Does anyone have a suggestion for successfully filling in these > holes? > Since the locomotive's value has been diminished, I plan to repaint > it to conform to the B&O original scheme to use as an operator's piece. > Thanks. > W. Thomas Boussum > > "If you want to bake an apple pie from scratch, you must start by > creating the universe." Carl Sagan in "Cosmos." > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15973	From: ALLAN V EISENHAUR	Date: 12/14/2001
Subject: Bill 602p Hoax

Thanks to all who answered the 602p bill question. I had received it from a friend who emailed me in a panic about it. I told him I check it out. I guess this will ease his mind now. AL ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15974	From: Scott Holm	Date: 12/14/2001
Subject: Re: Restoration question.

--- Tim Brown <Timboy@...> wrote: > Hi, Just a suggestion here, but try JB Weld, found at auto parts stores such as Pep Boys. JB Kwik is the 5 minute drying version of JB Weld which might be easier to use. JB Weld will run out the same as epoxy. You could put tape on the inside and outside to keep it from running. Another thing to try is Squadron Green putty sold in Hobby stores. And still another is epoxy putty found in hardware and automotive stores. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15975	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 12/14/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1240

BEACON Problems: Keep in mind that the beacon doesn't operate very well at high altitudes (thin air), I have switched to brand " X " ,it uses a magnet & rubber fingers to rotate the top. Jerry 77-11644 ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15976	From: THOMAS C. FISHER	Date: 12/14/2001
Subject: rotating beacon tops once more

In addition to adjusting the vanes and cleaning the pivot pin, I had the greatest improvment by cleaning the dimple in the bulb top with a q-tip moistened with rubbing alcohol, works like a champ now. Regard"S", Smitty [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15977	From: Scott Brown	Date: 12/14/2001
Subject: MTH Sawmill

I just purchased the MTH Sawmill. Right out of the box, it runs just great. It is very smooth and all the boards come out without a hitch. And, none of the parts fell out of the box like I heard some comments about the new lionel sawmill. It looks identical to my original AF sawmill and I am quite pleased with my purchase. And for only $89.95 minus my 15% club discount, it was a very good buy. Just wanted to let you know. Scott Brown Atlantic Coast S Gaugers Washington & Old Dominion Division [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15978	From: Keith Kuzma	Date: 12/14/2001
Subject: Passenger car windows

I need to flatten out the curling window inserts on some 66x passenger cars.What 's the quickest way? Keith _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15979	From: Tom Young	Date: 12/14/2001
Subject: 30B

I'm hoping that with all the knowledge about AF that I've seen in this group, that someone might be able to help me with a problem 30B transformer. Have a dead spot on the right control. I get the control to about the 30 to 35 mph mark and there is a loss of power, then power resumes after that, accelerating smoothly. Decelerating, the same thing, 30mph it goes dead. I checked the roller and although a little worn , I see no reason for it to be causing this. And I think if it was the roller it wouldn't give me a problem in the same spot constantly. Could it be the coil, which I cleaned. Anybody else ever had this problem? This is driving me up nuts, usually when there's a problem, I can fix it. But this has me stumped. HELP, please.... Tom Young [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15980	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/14/2001
Subject: Re: Restoration question.

I agree there may be run-out or drop-out. A piece of tape as a backer may be a good idea. After the patch is cured, a little epoxy where the tape used to be may provide a platform or reinforcement for the patch. A more serious approach would be to find someone who specializes in pot-metal welds, then grind it down, sand and repaint - a pretty severe restoration. That kind of restoration would probably kill the value of the piece. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Holm" <imsscott@...> To: "s-trains" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 4:39 PM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Restoration question. > --- Tim Brown <Timboy@...> wrote: > > Hi, Just a suggestion here, but try JB Weld, found at auto parts > stores such as Pep Boys. > > JB Kwik is the 5 minute drying version of JB Weld which might be easier > to use. JB Weld will run out the same as epoxy. You could put tape on > the inside and outside to keep it from running. Another thing to try is > Squadron Green putty sold in Hobby stores. And still another is epoxy > putty found in hardware and automotive stores. > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of > your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com > or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15981	From: sonny2158	Date: 12/14/2001
Subject: S Guage Train Table for Sale in Garland, TX Area

Folks, if anyone in the Dallas area is interested I still have a 4 ft X 8 ft landsacaped train table I am selling. It has original flyer "S" gauge track and black rubber roadbed, 4 switches, plastic buildings, varying ages (some plasticville, some more recent). It is wired with lights under the buildings and for the switches. It accomodates four trains, with two able to run simultaneously. The table top detaches from the base. I have it disassembled and sitting in the garage. The track landscaping, track and wiring are intact. I had the table up and functional for the last 10 years and recently decided to take it down for some minor office remodeling. I will sell it at a reasonable price if I find a local buyer. Would recommend a pickup truck to haul it. I forgot just how heavy the landscaped table top was until my son and I started to move it. I did snap off one or two of the plastic telephone poles while we were moving it...but these can be fairly easily replaced. I did upload a picture to the photo section (traintable). Makes for a great operating layout. It pains me to part with it, but I needed to recover the space it had been taking. By the way, the trains on the table in the picture are NOT included. Email at sonny.stuart7@... if interested.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15982	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/14/2001
Subject: Re: 30B

I'll bet your arm that carries the roller isn't staying in contact all the way from off to high. My solution to the problem on a friends transformer was to bend the arm a little more toward the coil. You'll know if you go too far- the dead man control won't shut it off. The problem we saw was that the pivot for the arm was a little too loose. The arm bending worked merely to compensate for the looseness of the pivot mount, which looked like it would need new parts, and this was a quick repair. Tom Young wrote: > > I'm hoping that with all the knowledge about AF that I've seen in this > group, that someone might be able to help me with a problem 30B > transformer. > Have a dead spot on the right control. I get the control to about the > 30 to 35 mph mark and there is a loss of power, then power resumes after > that, accelerating smoothly. Decelerating, the same thing, 30mph it goes > dead. > I checked the roller and although a little worn , I see no reason for > it to be causing this. And I think if it was the roller it wouldn't give > me a problem in the same spot constantly. > Could it be the coil, which I cleaned. Anybody else ever had this > problem? > This is driving me up nuts, usually when there's a problem, I can fix > it. But this has me stumped. > HELP, please.... > Tom Young > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15983	From: gino restivo	Date: 12/14/2001
Subject: Re: 30B

hi tom , i've seen this a few times ... ck for very stiff wiring to the roller arm replace if needed , ck for a bad solder joint also ....you could use a ohm meter , hooked in , to see exactly where the problem occurs ( accross the arm - and coil ) .... hindsite tells me to ck the roller , something may be stuck on it ! have fun gino -----Original Message----- From: Tom Young <tyoung5@...> To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Date: Friday, December 14, 2001 9:47 PM Subject: [S-Trains] 30B > I'm hoping that with all the knowledge about AF that I've seen in this >group, that someone might be able to help me with a problem 30B >transformer. > Have a dead spot on the right control. I get the control to about the >30 to 35 mph mark and there is a loss of power, then power resumes after >that, accelerating smoothly. Decelerating, the same thing, 30mph it goes >dead. > I checked the roller and although a little worn , I see no reason for >it to be causing this. And I think if it was the roller it wouldn't give >me a problem in the same spot constantly. > Could it be the coil, which I cleaned. Anybody else ever had this >problem? > This is driving me up nuts, usually when there's a problem, I can fix >it. But this has me stumped. > HELP, please.... > Tom Young > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com >All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > >To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > ---------------------------------------------------- Sign Up for NetZero Platinum Today Only $9.95 per month! http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15984	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/14/2001
Subject: Re: Restoration question.

I assume these hole are on the top of the locomotive (A Pantagraph on a steamer??? I know PE had trolley poles on some steam engines, to activate their signal system, but gee. . . .). Take some masking tape, and tape over the holes on the outside. Turn over the loco, and JB Weld the holes, leaving the loco upside down during the curing process. IMHO, JB Quik doesn not work as well. Let it cure overnight. Remove the tape, and clean the area with alcohol or Lacquer thinner (note, do I need to say to use a well-ventilated area, and no open flames??). Lightly sand the area with some 380 or finer sandpaper, preferably with a rubber block (use an old piece of belting, or buy a little glazing block at the auto paint store, they're pretty cheap (under $2). now apply a thin layer of squadron green (you can use other brands of paste filler, but this one is fairly common and GOOD). Allow that to dry a few hours. With a rubber block, sand the area smooth with 400 grit paper. You should be able to now prime and paint your loco. The primer may need some wet sanding with 800 wet or dry to smooth out all the sanding marks. When you are done, no one should see the repair from the outside. S' David D. PS I've filled many reverse unit slots with this method, it should work on round holes too. (I put the reverse in the tender and add smoke & pullmore when I create a Daylight)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15985	From: Donald P. Abrams	Date: 12/15/2001
Subject: Re: Filling holes

Chamfer the holes. You'll get a better bond and they'll be less noticeable. Don

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15986	From: Donald P. Abrams	Date: 12/15/2001
Subject: Re: Ebay circus stuff

I don't recall the auction numbers or the sellers names, but there were a couple of fishy circus flatcars with loads that were up about a week ago. The seller claimed "originality" on the loads. The tractors had wheels that were clearly from circus cages (spokes). I've never seen that before. Has anyone else? They went for about $250 each. Hope no one was taken. Don

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15987	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 12/15/2001
Subject: B&O Daylight

David D. Quacks: >I've filled many reverse unit slots with this method, it should work on >round holes too. (I put the reverse in the tender and add smoke & pullmore >when I create a Daylight) David: Do you have a picture of one of your conversions? I'd like to see it. Are you actually emulating a GS series or are you simply freelancing a Daylight paint job on the streamlined Pacific? The GS is a larger engine and has a different wheel configuration, so I'm wondering how you handle all that. Post a pic in the files section. Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15988	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 12/15/2001
Subject: BEACON Problems

Here's an alternative plan for the rotating aircraft beacon fix. This solution was first posted on the TCA list about a year ago or more. One of the members, who was using fish tank air pumps for some other layout purpose, got the bright idea of running an auxiliary air line off his manifold and up the middle of the tower. I think that he used some rigid tube and painted it and hooked in the flexline at the base. The end of the tube pokes into the opening under the rotating shell. With the air well regulated, you get perfect performance response from the beacon and can even control the speed of rotation. If you are running Del-Aire air activated switches, this side line to run your beacon is a no brainer, but watch the pressure or you'll launch the beacon top and then we're into a whole other genre of train toys. Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15989	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/15/2001
Subject: Re: B&O Daylight

Chris & all, Pic is on my website, actually in the area hosted by Paul Y. Here's the URL: http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/david/daylite.htm It is a sorta-freelance, a "what if ACG had done a daylight using existing tooling." I say sorta, as SP had some similar locos on the Sunset. Not quite exact, but similar! After all, these are TOYS! The SP locos were 4-6-2s, and had a single headlight in a nose and skyline casing. I wish I could remember where I saw a prototype picture. My unit features some wire handrails, marker jewels, operating back-up light, pullmor wheels and smoke. I have to modify the smoke unit top to fit the RB body shell, the SB body shell was modified to move the smokestack foreward to fit the unit. The backup light is wired through the reverse unit, so it's only on in reverse. I have intended on making more, but parts are getting too expensive, and time is too short! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15990	From: lensman@erols.com	Date: 12/15/2001
Subject: AF Log Loader - Hookup

Hello, I just picked up a AF log loader at a yard sale. Looks complete but I am unsure how to hook it up. It has 4 wires, black, green, yellow and red. No button. Does this unit operate with a single or two button control? Can anyone tell me how to hook this up? Also, I am not sure it this is a AF 751 or 751A unit. It has a black metal base. Any info would be appreciated. Jerry

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15991	From: Tom Young	Date: 12/15/2001
Subject: 30B

Chuck, Gino and Rhett, thanks a lot for your help. Repaired it this morning. Zeroed in on the problem with my test meter. Turns out it WAS the wire to the roller arm, right at the connection to the arm. Figures, that's where all the stress from moving back and forth for 50 years would be. No break visible to the naked eye, but continuity was broken when I flexed the wire by hand. Ya learn somethin' every day I'm HAPPY, you guys are great, thanks again. HAPPY HOLIDAY'S to all in S-TRAINS Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15992	From: af21115	Date: 12/15/2001
Subject: Re: Ebay circus stuff

Don, one legitimate version of the tractors came with the circus cage type wheels. One has to be very careful when buying circus items from E-bay. I've seen on several occasions locos being passed off as original, that are obviously repainted. Original loads to the untrained eye are often attempted to be passed off as originals as well.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15993	From: aag_rlg	Date: 12/15/2001
Subject: Train Layout for Open House

Everyone: Several weeks ago I mentioned that I was going to have an operating American Flyer layout at a Historical Society open house. I did that and it was quite a success. I have posted pictures from the open house in the files section as "layout2001-1 etc." The layout was fun for the kids and adults alike. I had four operating accessories that could be operated by buttons on the edge of the table and the cattle loader was the biggest hit, even though it needed some finger assistance on occasion. Some of the Dads walked away with S-Helper catalogs and NASG information, so you never know, we may get some converts. I had the set my parents gave me for Christmas in 1959 operating on the layout as well as some other trains. Interestingly, I talked to a man whose father was a good friend of my fathers when I was growing up. He told me that his father sold American Flyer trains at Christmas in his hardware store in town and it is likely that my train was purchased at that store. Trumansburg is a very small town, so this makes perfect sense and is probably why I got American Flyer instead of Lionel. Thank goodness for that. I want to again thank Don Thompson and John Foley for sending the catalogs and other information. It was great to be able to send people away with something in their hand. It seems very likely that I will be doing this next year, as at the end of the day, one of the volunteers at the Historical Society asked what I would be doing next year. I think that I have this job for awhile. Thanks, Art

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15994	From: af21115	Date: 12/15/2001
Subject: Re: AF Log Loader - Hookup

Jerry, you have a 751A. Both models ran off a double button control. You can use two generic buttons if you do not have a spare double. One button (Green) popped the log up into the carriage, the other button (Red) started the motor. When wiring AF, black is always Base Post or ground. Yellow is always fixed 15V post. With that done, run a lead from the 15V fixed post to your button(s) and connect it to one side of each set on a double button or just one side of two seperate buttons. The green and red wires connect to each of the other open posts on the double or single buttons, which ever your using. The green should operate the log lifter, and red should start your motor. Enjoy....

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15995	From: Don Thompson	Date: 12/15/2001
Subject: Re: FLYONEL E UNIT

Dear Alan, Dallee ( https://www.dallee.com ) also has sound units with electronic reverse unit to retro fit any AC Gilbert or Lionel's American Flyer engines (both diesel and steam). Don Thompson ALLAN V EISENHAUR wrote: > Merry Christmas All > > Dallee makes a universal electronic e-unit ( #400 ), It will work with AC > or DC motors. They also have a lot of other electronic gadgets that can > be used with S. www.dallee.com > > AL -- -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15996	From: afsgauge@aol.com	Date: 12/15/2001
Subject: Rite Aid

The oher day it was mentioned: Message: 15 Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 00:36:58 -0000 From: "lou342ac" <loubaldi@...> Subject: Mighty Machines I was in Rite Aid the other day and saw some very interesting 1/64" scale flat bed & transport haulers. They come with Ford/Chevrolet Hot Rods & Stock Cars as loads. They appear to be well made and are priced at $4.99 each. Rite Aid has stores in Central Maryland, Pennslyvania and Northern Virginia. They may have stores in Delaware also. <<<<<<<< Just wanted to add that Rite Aid does have over 3600 stores nationwide and does have a wbbsite that has a user friendly store locator feature that can be ;ocated at <A HREF="http://www.riteaid.com/">http://www.riteaid.com/</A> Thanks, John [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15997	From: Mark Preman	Date: 12/15/2001
Subject: I Have The MTH Sawmill

I saw the post looking for the MTH sawmill. I have 4 at $85 each plus shipping. I haven't even had a chance to put them up on the website. Mark americanflyertrains.com ===== Mark B. Preman AmericanFlyerTrains.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15998	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/15/2001
Subject: [Fwd: Fw: Please check your computer!]

See below. Found this on my computer so you should check yours per instructions below. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Fw: Please check your computer! Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 11:46:30 -0500 From: "Ken Henderson" <kenh1@...> To: "Rainer Korittke" <RKUFO@...>,"Edmond" <edmondyeung@...>,"Laurence" <laurence@...>,"Rocky Mong" <rocky@...>,"Ken Niepokoy" <kniepokoy@...>,"Ted Endreny" <te@...>,"David Perlman" <dnpeee@...>,<ahuynh@...>,"George P Henderson" <gphenderson80@...>,"YY Chang" <yowyieh.chang@...>,"Patrick Land & Auction Inc" <patrland@...>,<reinas@...>,"John B. Reinhard" <reinharj@...>,"Jonas, Michael" <MJonas@...>,"Charles E. Smith" <cesmith@...>,"Charles Henderson" <CHende6381@...>,"Jeffrey P. Renelt" <jrenelt@...>,"Jeff Keller" <fjk@...>,"Bruce Kahn" <bekpph@...>,"Karen Lewis" <karen.lewis@...>,"Vittal Shenoy" <vsh92640@...>,"MARY M GRAY" <grayii@...>,"Barnie Day" <bday@...>,"Smith, Scott \(New York\)" <Scott.Smith@...>,"Judy Bourdet" <Jbourdet777@...>,"Gary Streber" <gary.streber@...>,"Sara Renna" <sjrgcip@...>,"Dave Zhang" <dzhang8@...>,"Jackie Spiro" <jackie.spiro@...>,"Rochelle A" <rochelam@...>,"Gretchen Kinnear" <gretchen.kinnear@...>,"Anna Henderson Endreny" <endreny1@...>,"Alex Martens" <amartens@...> I received this e-mail from my nieces husband. It warns of a computer virus. I found it on my machine, so be sure to check yours. Ken H. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jason Silverman To: Yvonne Wood ; Tom Silverman (home) ; Tom Silverman ; Tina Androutsos ; Stacy Torkopoulos ; Ronitt Katz ; Michelle Weissenberg ; Michael Kalezic ; Michael & Whitney Gnat ; Mark Lewis ; Marcie Silverman ; Linda Miller ; Ken Henderson ; John Gourgouvelis ; George (Hotmail) ; Dimitra Papadopoulos ; David Vanslingerland ; David ; Danny Rossi ; Con Torkopoulos ; Chuck Henderson ; Carolyn Roissl ; Bradley A. Silverman ; Anna EndrenySent: Saturday, December 15, 2001 1:01 AMSubject: Fw: Please check your computer! Hi everyone, Please read this message and follow the instructions. I had the file on my computer and deleted it. I am not sure if it is credible but as I do not know what the file is I found it safer to delete it than not. Jason ----- Original Message ----- From: James Casey To: Paul Black ; Guy Royston ; Robert Farrell ; Jobaris Len ; Greg Cynaumon ; Karen Casey ; Linda Rodgers ; White Allen ; William Baker ; Charles DimonSent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 12:48 PMSubject: Please check your computer! Hi All, I just received an email from a friend telling me that I'd just gotten a virus...probably from him, and you are likely to be next because it goes into my address book and sends it out! Luckily, it doesn't work for two weeks...it sort of lurks around and waits and then hits.So you have time! Remove it today!READ this and do it! I had it and removed it EASILY! I am not usually very good at following instructions but this was really fast! Let me know if you had it! This is a new virus that is spread from address book to address book. It is apparently undectectable by Norton and McAfee. It remains dormant for about 14 days, then activates and wipes out the hard drive data. The directions for removing it are easy.1. Go to 'start' - then to 'find or search' (depending on your computer)2. In the 'search for files or folders' type in sulfnbk.exe -- this is the virus.3. In the 'look in' make sure you're searching Drive C.4. Hit 'search' button (or find)5. If this file shows up (it's an ugly blackish icon that will have the name 'sulfnbk.exe') DO NOT OPEN IT6. Right click on the file - go down to delete and left click.7. It will ask you if you want to send it to the recycle bin, say yes.8. Go to your desktop (where all your icons are) and double click on the recycle bin.9. Right click on sulfnbk.exe and delete again - or empty the bin. If you find it send this email to all in your address book, because that's how it's transferred Thanks,Jim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 15999	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/15/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Tis The Season to be frugal.

They work well on my layout where I have strung together 5 of the 3 volt type and run on my transformer's fixed 15V. You can do this with 10 of the 1.5V variety. Easy to cut apart a string to get down to a number that suits your source. For example, at 18V fixed use 12 of the 1.5V variety. You can also slip in an extra bulb or 2 and get a warmer glow and longer bulb life. I have also found replscement buls of 6 nd 12 volts. The 12 volters made excellent headlights for a diesel cab unit with a burned out bulb. The 12 volters also come in things like a Xmas tree star with 10 bulbs that runs on 11VAC. Daniel Waskes wrote: > > Hi Group, > Here's a frugal tip that's probably been around since > A.C. Gilbert was a pup. Christmas tree lights to light > your structures. No, not the old-timey ones, the new > miniature ones. They come in strings of 100, 200, etc. > They measure approx. 1.5 " in length with the socket > and aapprox. .200" in dia. About the same size as the > ones Walther"s supplies in their building kits. The > ones I bought are rated at 1.5 volts a piece. These > are usually available after Christmas sales are over. > I picked up about 200 lights at less than 2 cents a > piece last year. This included the sockets and the > step down transformer that came with the set. Not a > bad deal if you're frugal. Heat should be no problem > with these bulbs because of their low voltages and the > light they put out is great, you just can't use them > where scale sized lighting is desired. You electrical > wizards out there could probably light every structure > on your layout using one light string. The other item > I picked up was an item called "Mini Lights". This was > 20 lights about the size of G.O.W lights with a > battery holder and switch for $4.oo. Not too shabby > paying .20 cents for G.O.W bulbs. They come in colors > too. Buy these "minis" before Christmas, they go fast. > The other can be purchased after Christmas for your > best prices. Where to get them? I got mine at > Wal-Mart. > While I'm on this structure lighting kick, try to > mount your lights high in the structures. It's a > subtle touch but your lights look a lot more realistic > when the light shines down through the windows onto > the ground. Check it out. Best wishes to all on the > coming holidays. God Bless America. > Dan W > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of > your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com > or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com > > To see or post Photos visit > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Scale/files/ > or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/ > To UNSUBSCRIBE send a note to s-scale-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16000	From: Jim Hannawald	Date: 12/15/2001
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fw: Please check your computer!]

Chuck and others, This is what I just got off McAfee's site McAfee AVERT Labs would like to inform you of a new email HOAX. This email message is just a HOAX. Although, the SULFNBK.EXE file may become infected by a number of valid viruses (most commonly W32/Magistr@MM, the details of this HOAX message are not based on actual events. We are advising users who receive the email to delete the message and DO NOT pass it on as this is how an email HOAX propagates. SULFNBK.EXE is a Microsoft Windows utility that is used to restore long file names. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Smith" <cesmith@...> To: "Miner, Duane" <DcPa2001@...>; "Anthony Lisi" <nsmlisi@...>; "Baldwin, Leroy" <Leroy.Baldwin@...>; "Betty at MCC" <bsmith@...>; "Bill at Sutherland" <bsmith@...>; "Bill Smith" <wsmith09@...>; <blieks@...>; "BOUDRIE,Warren" <wboudrie@...>; "charles cummings" <ckkc@...>; "CharlieC" <CCummings@...>; "Chuck Smith" <csmith03@...>; "Chuck Sr." <cesmith@...>; "chuck.smith@..." <Chuck.Smith@...>; "Cousin Judy" <royt@...>; "Daughton, Jack" <Jack.Daughton@...>; "Daughton, Jack" <Jack.Daughton@...>; "debbie" <dorosz@...>; "Dejong, Ed" <Ed.DeJong@...>; "dewey" <djdewey@...>; "Diana Floyd" <dfloyd@...>; "dougross" <dross2@...>; "Duane Miner" <DcPa2001@...>; "greg mummert" <gmummert@...>; "Harry Butler" <hgbutler@...>; "Jack Gauronski" <Jack.Gauronski@...>; "jim" <cacummings@...>; "John F. Elter" <john.elter@...>; "Joseph Haenn" <joestrainrepair@...>; "Kaye" <ckkc@...>; "Ken Henderson" <kenh1@...>; "mcswan" <mcswan@...>; "Mike Holland" <mjhtrains@...>; "Mike Shea" <mikeshea@...>; "Minagawa, Gary" <Gary.Minagawa@...>; "Miner, Duane" <DuaneMiner@...>; <NickJrPostcards@...>; <orosz@...>; "Patrick Mudd" <minni1@...>; "Paul Yorke" <yorke@...>; "PEGGY HARWELL" <pjharwell@...>; "Preston Pierce" <pep209@...>; "greg mummert" <gmummert@...>; "Harry Butler" <hgbutler@...>; "Mike Holland" <mjhtrains@...>; "Preston Pierce" <pep209@...>; "Ray Abbot" <ford58@...>; "Rick Isrealson" <rickleeRS3@...>; "Ted Larson at home" <mhrreast@...>; "Patrick Mudd" <minni1@...>; "steve coughlin" <lee0077237@...>; "Chuck Sr." <cesmith@...>; "greg mummert" <gmummert@...>; "Harry Butler" <hgbutler@...>; "Mike Holland" <mjhtrains@...>; "Preston Pierce" <pep209@...>; "Rick Isrealson" <rickleeRS3@...>; "Ted Larson at home" <mhrreast@...>; "mcswan" <mcswan@...>; "Patrick Mudd" <minni1@...>; "steve coughlin" <lee0077237@...>; "Duane Miner" <DcPa2001@...>; "Mike Shea" <mikeshea@...>; "Ray Abbot" <ford58@...>; "Rick Isrealson" <rickleeRS3@...>; "Roger Delthony" <rpd3@...>; "Ron Bashista" <rbashista@...>; "S-scale" <S-scale@egroups.com>; "S-Scale" <S-Scale@yahoogroups.com>; "Steve Coughlin" <stephen.coughlin@...>; "steve coughlin" <lee0077237@...>; "s-trains" <S-trains@egroups.com>; <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>; "Ted home/w/files" <tclarson@...>; "Ted Larson at home" <mhrreast@...>; "Ted Larson at work" <tlarson@...>; "Terry Crosby" <crosbyte@...>; "To:" <To:@...>; "Tom Pautz" <TPautz@...> Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2001 8:18 PM Subject: [S-Trains] [Fwd: Fw: Please check your computer!] > See below. Found this on my computer so you should check yours per > instructions below. > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Fw: Please check your computer! > Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 11:46:30 -0500 > From: "Ken Henderson" <kenh1@...> > To: "Rainer Korittke" <RKUFO@...>,"Edmond" > <edmondyeung@...>,"Laurence" > <laurence@...>,"Rocky Mong" > <rocky@...>,"Ken Niepokoy" > <kniepokoy@...>,"Ted Endreny" <te@...>,"David > Perlman" > <dnpeee@...>,<ahuynh@...>,"George P > Henderson" <gphenderson80@...>,"YY Chang" > <yowyieh.chang@...>,"Patrick Land & Auction Inc" > <patrland@...>,<reinas@...>,"John B. > Reinhard" <reinharj@...>,"Jonas, Michael" > <MJonas@...>,"Charles E. Smith" > <cesmith@...>,"Charles Henderson" > <CHende6381@...>,"Jeffrey P. Renelt" > <jrenelt@...>,"Jeff Keller" > <fjk@...>,"Bruce Kahn" > <bekpph@...>,"Karen Lewis" > <karen.lewis@...>,"Vittal Shenoy" > <vsh92640@...>,"MARY M GRAY" <grayii@...>,"Barnie > Day" <bday@...>,"Smith, Scott \(New York\)" > <Scott.Smith@...>,"Judy Bourdet" > <Jbourdet777@...>,"Gary Streber" > <gary.streber@...>,"Sara Renna" > <sjrgcip@...>,"Dave Zhang" <dzhang8@...>,"Jackie > Spiro" <jackie.spiro@...>,"Rochelle A" > <rochelam@...>,"Gretchen Kinnear" > <gretchen.kinnear@...>,"Anna Henderson Endreny" > <endreny1@...>,"Alex Martens" <amartens@...> > > I received this e-mail from my nieces husband. It warns of a computer > virus. I found it on my machine, so be sure to check yours. Ken H. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jason Silverman > To: Yvonne Wood ; Tom Silverman (home) ; Tom Silverman ; Tina Androutsos > ; Stacy Torkopoulos ; Ronitt Katz ; Michelle Weissenberg ; Michael > Kalezic ; Michael & Whitney Gnat ; Mark Lewis ; Marcie Silverman ; Linda > Miller ; Ken Henderson ; John Gourgouvelis ; George (Hotmail) ; Dimitra > Papadopoulos ; David Vanslingerland ; David ; Danny Rossi ; Con > Torkopoulos ; Chuck Henderson ; Carolyn Roissl ; Bradley A. Silverman ; > Anna EndrenySent: Saturday, December 15, 2001 1:01 AMSubject: Fw: Please > check your computer! > Hi everyone, Please read this message and follow the instructions. I > had the file on my computer and deleted it. I am not sure if it is > credible but as I do not know what the file is I found it safer to > delete it than not. Jason > ----- Original Message ----- > From: James Casey > To: Paul Black ; Guy Royston ; Robert Farrell ; Jobaris Len ; Greg > Cynaumon ; Karen Casey ; Linda Rodgers ; White Allen ; William Baker ; > Charles DimonSent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 12:48 PMSubject: Please > check your computer! > Hi All, I just received an email from a friend telling me that I'd just > gotten a virus...probably from him, and you are likely to be next > because it goes into my address book and sends it out! Luckily, it > doesn't work for two weeks...it sort of lurks around and waits and then > hits.So you have time! Remove it today!READ this and do it! I had it > and removed it EASILY! I am not usually very good at following > instructions but this was really fast! Let me know if you had it! > This is a new virus that is spread from address book to address book. > It is apparently undectectable by Norton and McAfee. It remains dormant > for about 14 days, then activates and wipes out the hard drive data. > The directions for removing it are easy.1. Go to 'start' - then to 'find > or search' (depending on your computer)2. In the 'search for files or > folders' type in sulfnbk.exe -- this is the virus.3. In the 'look in' > make sure you're searching Drive C.4. Hit 'search' button (or find)5. If > this file shows up (it's an ugly blackish icon that will have the name > 'sulfnbk.exe') DO NOT OPEN IT6. Right click on the file - go down to > delete and left click.7. It will ask you if you want to send it to the > recycle bin, say yes.8. Go to your desktop (where all your icons are) > and double click on the recycle bin.9. Right click on sulfnbk.exe and > delete again - or empty the bin. > > If you find it send this email to all in your address book, because > that's how it's transferred > > Thanks,Jim > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16001	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 12/16/2001
Subject: Another Hoax - Please check with me or Mcafee

Name: SULFNBK Hoax Characteristics: AVERT HOAX Notice!! McAfee AVERT Labs would like to inform you of a new email HOAX. This email message is just a HOAX. Although, the SULFNBK.EXE file may become infected by a number of valid viruses (most commonly <A href="virusSummary.asp?virus_k=99040" target=_blank>W32/Magistr@MM</A>, the details of this HOAX message are not based on actual events. We are advising users who receive the email to delete the message and DO NOT pass it on as this is how an email HOAX propagates.SULFNBK.EXE is a Microsoft Windows utility that is used to restore long file names Below is the actual text from the message that may be received via email. There are numerous variations on these messages. </U> (English version) A VIRUS could be in your computer files now, dormant but will become active on June 1. Try not to USE your Computer on June 1st. FOLLOW DIRECTIONS BELOW TO CHECK IF YOU HAVE IT AND TO REMOVE IT NOW. No Virus software can detect it. It will become active on June 1, 2001. It might be too late by then. It wipes out all files and folders on the hard drive. This virus travels thru E-mail and migrates to the 'C:\windows\command' folder............ <SNIP> To learn how to protect yourself from computer viruses, visit the McAfee.com Clinic at http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=2103. For complete information on this Hoax, view McAfee.com's Virus Information Library listing at http://vil.mcafee.com/dispVirus.asp?virus_k=99084. This email was sent to you by Paul Yorke

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16002	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 12/16/2001
Subject: Where is the "files section"?

Art made this post where he mentioned the "files" section. Is that part of our list? If so, where is it? Pete Ervin Cumberland, MD ' Several weeks ago I mentioned that I was going to have an operating American Flyer layout at a Historical Society open house. I did that and it was quite a success. I have posted pictures from the open house in the files section as "layout2001-1 etc." '

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16003	From: Dennis A. Troini	Date: 12/16/2001
Subject: Re: VIRUS MIGRATION [S-Trains] : Please check your computer! {{( A

To ALL; CHECK ALL DRIVES> I FOUND IT EXACTLY AS INSTRUCTED BUT IT WAS ALSO IN MY D: (2nd) HARD DRIVE I do not know where or when it came in but it may have gone out in replies on and offlist to s-list members as well as Address Book. Alternate Deletion: Go to Windows Explorer, tools , find , files or folders , in NAMED type sulfnbk.exe , in LoCATION select My Computer,( this will search all your drives including removables and is especially important if you have 2 or more and/ or SCSI Drives); if found right click the name , delete , empty recycle bin. This will do exactly as the later instructions. Sorry if I sent this to anyone. Dennis On Sat, 15 Dec 2001 20:18:47 -0500 Chuck Smith <cesmith@...> writes: > See below. Found this on my computer so you should check yours per > instructions below. > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Fw: Please check your computer! > Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 11:46:30 -0500 > From: "Ken Henderson" <kenh1@...> > To: "Rainer Korittke" <RKUFO@...>,"Edmond" > <edmondyeung@...>,"Laurence" > <laurence@...>,"Rocky Mong" > <rocky@...>,"Ken Niepokoy" > <kniepokoy@...>,"Ted Endreny" <te@...>,"David > Perlman" > <dnpeee@...>,<ahuynh@...>,"George P > Henderson" <gphenderson80@...>,"YY Chang" > <yowyieh.chang@...>,"Patrick Land & Auction Inc" > <patrland@...>,<reinas@...>,"John B. > Reinhard" <reinharj@...>,"Jonas, Michael" > <MJonas@...>,"Charles E. Smith" > <cesmith@...>,"Charles Henderson" > <CHende6381@...>,"Jeffrey P. Renelt" > <jrenelt@...>,"Jeff Keller" > <fjk@...>,"Bruce Kahn" > <bekpph@...>,"Karen Lewis" > <karen.lewis@...>,"Vittal Shenoy" > <vsh92640@...>,"MARY M GRAY" > <grayii@...>,"Barnie > Day" <bday@...>,"Smith, Scott \(New York\)" > <Scott.Smith@...>,"Judy Bourdet" > <Jbourdet777@...>,"Gary Streber" > <gary.streber@...>,"Sara Renna" > <sjrgcip@...>,"Dave Zhang" > <dzhang8@...>,"Jackie > Spiro" <jackie.spiro@...>,"Rochelle A" > <rochelam@...>,"Gretchen Kinnear" > <gretchen.kinnear@...>,"Anna Henderson Endreny" > <endreny1@...>,"Alex Martens" > <amartens@...> > > I received this e-mail from my nieces husband. It warns of a > computer > virus. I found it on my machine, so be sure to check yours. Ken H. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jason Silverman > Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2001 1:01 AMSubject: Fw: > Please > check your computer! > Hi everyone, Please read this message and follow the instructions. > I > had the file on my computer and deleted it. I am not sure if it is > credible but as I do not know what the file is I found it safer to > delete it than not. Jason > ----- Original Message ----- > From: James Casey > To: Paul Black ; Guy Royston ; Robert Farrell ; Jobaris Len ; Greg > Cynaumon ; Karen Casey ; Linda Rodgers ; White Allen ; William Baker > ; > Charles DimonSent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 12:48 PMSubject: > Please > check your computer! > Hi All, I just received an email from a friend telling me that I'd > just > gotten a virus...probably from him, and you are likely to be next > because it goes into my address book and sends it out! Luckily, it > doesn't work for two weeks...it sort of lurks around and waits and > then > hits.So you have time! Remove it today!READ this and do it! I had > it > and removed it EASILY! I am not usually very good at following > instructions but this was really fast! Let me know if you had it! > This is a new virus that is spread from address book to address > book. > It is apparently undectectable by Norton and McAfee. It remains > dormant > for about 14 days, then activates and wipes out the hard drive > data. > The directions for removing it are easy.1. Go to 'start' - then to > 'find > or search' (depending on your computer)2. In the 'search for files > or > folders' type in sulfnbk.exe -- this is the virus.3. In the 'look > in' > make sure you're searching Drive C.4. Hit 'search' button (or > find)5. If > this file shows up (it's an ugly blackish icon that will have the > name > 'sulfnbk.exe') DO NOT OPEN IT6. Right click on the file - go down > to > delete and left click.7. It will ask you if you want to send it to > the > recycle bin, say yes.8. Go to your desktop (where all your icons > are) > and double click on the recycle bin.9. Right click on sulfnbk.exe > and > delete again - or empty the bin. > > If you find it send this email to all in your address book, because > that's how it's transferred > > Thanks,Jim > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16004	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/16/2001
Subject: [Fwd: virus warning and hoaxs]

Found out this was a hoax. Below is more info and a fix if you deleted the file. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: virus warning and hoaxs Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 00:21:30 -0800 From: "G. Elems" <gelems@...> To: s-scale@yahoogroups.com,Chuck Smith <cesmith@...> Before you remove any files, you better make sure that you are not removing part of your operating system. This is an old hoax that has been around a while. Go to this web site and it will explain the hoax and give you a fix if you did delete anything. It will send you to a Microsoft web site. http://securityresponse.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/sulfnbk.exe.w arning.html Be sure to type in the whole address. Greg Elems PS you are the virus if you just start removing files....

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16005	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/16/2001
Subject: Re: VIRUS MIGRATION [S-Trains] : Please check your computer! {{( A

Sorry I bit on that hoax- got it from a neighbor who should know better. > "Dennis A. Troini" wrote: > > To ALL; > CHECK ALL DRIVES> I FOUND IT EXACTLY AS INSTRUCTED BUT IT WAS ALSO IN > MY D: (2nd) HARD DRIVE > I do not know where or when it came in but it may have gone out in > replies on and offlist to s-list members as well as Address Book. > Alternate Deletion: Go to Windows Explorer, tools , find , files or > folders , in NAMED type sulfnbk.exe , in LoCATION select My Computer,( > this will search all your drives including removables and is > especially important if you have 2 or more and/ or SCSI Drives); if > found right click the name , delete , empty recycle bin. This will do > exactly as the later instructions. > Sorry if I sent this to anyone. > Dennis > > On Sat, 15 Dec 2001 20:18:47 -0500 Chuck Smith <cesmith@...> > writes: > > See below. Found this on my computer so you should check yours per > > instructions below. > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > > Subject: Fw: Please check your computer! > > Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 11:46:30 -0500 > > From: "Ken Henderson" <kenh1@...> > > To: "Rainer Korittke" <RKUFO@...>,"Edmond" > > <edmondyeung@...>,"Laurence" > > <laurence@...>,"Rocky Mong" > > <rocky@...>,"Ken Niepokoy" > > <kniepokoy@...>,"Ted Endreny" <te@...>,"David > > Perlman" > > <dnpeee@...>,<ahuynh@...>,"George P > > Henderson" <gphenderson80@...>,"YY Chang" > > <yowyieh.chang@...>,"Patrick Land & Auction Inc" > > <patrland@...>,<reinas@...>,"John B. > > Reinhard" <reinharj@...>,"Jonas, Michael" > > <MJonas@...>,"Charles E. Smith" > > <cesmith@...>,"Charles Henderson" > > <CHende6381@...>,"Jeffrey P. Renelt" > > <jrenelt@...>,"Jeff Keller" > > <fjk@...>,"Bruce Kahn" > > <bekpph@...>,"Karen Lewis" > > <karen.lewis@...>,"Vittal Shenoy" > > <vsh92640@...>,"MARY M GRAY" > > <grayii@...>,"Barnie > > Day" <bday@...>,"Smith, Scott \(New York\)" > > <Scott.Smith@...>,"Judy Bourdet" > > <Jbourdet777@...>,"Gary Streber" > > <gary.streber@...>,"Sara Renna" > > <sjrgcip@...>,"Dave Zhang" > > <dzhang8@...>,"Jackie > > Spiro" <jackie.spiro@...>,"Rochelle A" > > <rochelam@...>,"Gretchen Kinnear" > > <gretchen.kinnear@...>,"Anna Henderson Endreny" > > <endreny1@...>,"Alex Martens" > > <amartens@...> > > > > I received this e-mail from my nieces husband. It warns of a > > computer > > virus. I found it on my machine, so be sure to check yours. Ken H. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Jason Silverman > > Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2001 1:01 AMSubject: Fw: > > Please > > check your computer! > > Hi everyone, Please read this message and follow the instructions. > > I > > had the file on my computer and deleted it. I am not sure if it is > > credible but as I do not know what the file is I found it safer to > > delete it than not. Jason > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: James Casey > > To: Paul Black ; Guy Royston ; Robert Farrell ; Jobaris Len ; Greg > > Cynaumon ; Karen Casey ; Linda Rodgers ; White Allen ; William Baker > > > ; > > Charles DimonSent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 12:48 PMSubject: > > Please > > check your computer! > > Hi All, I just received an email from a friend telling me that I'd > > just > > gotten a virus...probably from him, and you are likely to be next > > because it goes into my address book and sends it out! Luckily, it > > doesn't work for two weeks...it sort of lurks around and waits and > > then > > hits.So you have time! Remove it today!READ this and do it! I had > > it > > and removed it EASILY! I am not usually very good at following > > instructions but this was really fast! Let me know if you had it! > > This is a new virus that is spread from address book to address > > book. > > It is apparently undectectable by Norton and McAfee. It remains > > dormant > > for about 14 days, then activates and wipes out the hard drive > > data. > > The directions for removing it are easy.1. Go to 'start' - then to > > 'find > > or search' (depending on your computer)2. In the 'search for files > > or > > folders' type in sulfnbk.exe -- this is the virus.3. In the 'look > > in' > > make sure you're searching Drive C.4. Hit 'search' button (or > > find)5. If > > this file shows up (it's an ugly blackish icon that will have the > > name > > 'sulfnbk.exe') DO NOT OPEN IT6. Right click on the file - go down > > to > > delete and left click.7. It will ask you if you want to send it to > > the > > recycle bin, say yes.8. Go to your desktop (where all your icons > > are) > > and double click on the recycle bin.9. Right click on sulfnbk.exe > > and > > delete again - or empty the bin. > > > > If you find it send this email to all in your address book, because > > that's how it's transferred > > > > Thanks,Jim > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16006	From: Horn, David	Date: 12/16/2001
Subject: 15B and 30B

Assuming you have good a roller(s), pin(s), and coil(s) -- adjust the copper arm to which the roller is pinned such that 1) with the control arm up you can rotate the control through its full range of motion without any power getting conveyed to the tracks (i.e. the roller should not so much as glance the coils, if you've used AF rollers this adjustment is usually not necessary, if you've used the more prevalent larger diameter Lionel rollers, you will need to adjust and fuss with this to get it right, few "repair" shops by the way seem to do this/care), 2) when somewhere within the power range (e.g. above "30 mph") you should be able to push the control arm down to about the point it contacts its mounting clips but does not push through into them and the engine get enough power to activate the reverse-unit (in other words, you should be able to activate the rev unit without having to press the control arm down into its clip and then lift it back out through the clip). That makes for easy, less noisy, direction changes. In terms of the mystery dead-spot on the 30B, it could be you still haven't the roller height correct, but I've also had few where the old original braided wire from the pivot has developed a weak spot somewhere such that in one position or another it no longer passes current like it should. And you're right, until you find this, it can drive you nuts. Replace that wire (I use heater repair extension cord from Sears, it is black, soft and flexible, heavy gauge, and you can easily and safely pull the two leads apart to get separate wires), and get back to running your trains without a hiccup. For fun, take the old lead you removed, hook a continuity tester up to each end and gently change its shape, you'll eventually find that point where the cont tester tone stops sounding. You can even discover it while the lead is still in the transformer. That's how I first did. Viola. PS Also on the 30B, make sure your low-end plate and full-speed plates on the 30B are level, not cock-eyed. Some come cocked down or up on one end or the other, making the fine tuning of roller height kind of a pain. Level off both by gently lifting on the low end and you'll have better luck.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16007	From: Mike Vana	Date: 12/16/2001
Subject: December List

Did you send out a December list? If you did, I didn't get it. Mike Vana

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16008	From: Don Thompson	Date: 12/16/2001
Subject: Re: SHS Single F-3 A units availability

Dear Russ, Right now we have CB&Q, C&NW and MEC phase II F-3 A units available. The price is $199.95 for the AC or DC slave and DC no sound, $239.95 for the AC no sound and $299.95 for the AC/DC or DCC sound versions. Don T. Russ Dondero wrote: > Robin, > > Do you have any SP or UP F-3 A units left - which you are willing to sell > separately? If so, what's the price? > > If not, what A units do you have available? > > Russ -- -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16009	From: lensman@erols.com	Date: 12/16/2001
Subject: AF 18B Transfomer - No separate throttle control

Hello all! I am trying to solve a puzzle. I have a dual control AF 18b. The problem is that it doesn't matter what trottle control I use as either controller acts as if it is the lone controller for the system. I have two separate track setups but by using either controller I affect operation on both track layouts at the same time. There must be short in the unit some place. I can not seem to locate it. Any ideas and how to get these two controllers to operate in the separate fashion as I am sure the unit is designed for? Jerry

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16010	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/16/2001
Subject: Re: AF 18B Transfomer - No separate throttle control

Jerry, The two tracks are not connected in any way, like by a switched track?? S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16011	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 12/16/2001
Subject: 15B and 3oB

The comments on these transformers are mostly right oin. When you adjust the height of the roller arm, don't put any strain on the rivet that holds it to the transformer. Bend the arm using two pairs of pliers to avoid this. The rivet is the weak point of the entire design. Never use any solvent or cleaner to wipe the windings. Just use a clean 100% cotton cloth. A miswired transformer is possible but unusual. Jerry, are your two loops of track not connected by switches? If they are, current is probably leaking through the switches. An insulated track pin or 2 in the right places in the variable voltage rail will solve the problem. If the two loops are not connected, THEN look for a problem in the transformer. Cello. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16012	From: Horn, David	Date: 12/17/2001
Subject: SHS rolling stock, and 48721 SF caboose

Hey, I love SHS rolling stock including those great looking cars from John Huster, but how do you get them to work with AF remote uncouplers. More often than not no matter how fast or slow I run ( or even park) the train over the uncouplers (5 different ones) those great cars just stay coupled to each other, but my AF's uncouple perfectly. On a separate and unrelated note, does any one know if the AF 48721 SF "merger" caboose is illuminated or not? Thanks. The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for the addressee(s). BEST! Software, Inc. disclaims any responsibility for the contents of this message, including any attachments. The views expressed in this message are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect the views of the company or any other employee of the company. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, please notify BEST! Software, Inc. immediately by E-mailing Postmaster@... and destroy all copies of this message.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16013	From: sigma@ecn.ab.ca	Date: 12/17/2001
Subject: Re: "Awesome"

I protest the transmission of the porno sales pitch "Awesome." Even if it had anything to do with model trains it would be unacceptable. Where is the monitor? Joe Pereira email: sigma@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16014	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/17/2001
Subject: Moderation, re: Re: "Awesome"

Joe, This list is mostly "Unmoderated", we are expected to monitor ourselves, and it works very well, for the most part! So far I haven't recieved the "Awsome" emailing, so maybe it wasn't sent to the entire list, or???? Maybe there's a see-through pic of an AF Northern there??? ;-) S'incerely, David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16015	From: Craig E Manning	Date: 12/17/2001
Subject: Re: Moderation, re: Re: "Awesome"

Awh shucks, I was looking trying to find it and hoping for a topless Gondola or maybe a cute bare Caboose ? I didn't find any "Awesome" porno emails, I think for one to come thru to the list, the porno sender has to be a member. C. Rolla, MO "David Dewey" <djdewey@cncn To: <S-trains@yahoogroups.com>, <sigma@...> et.com> cc: Subject: [S-Trains] Moderation, re: Re: "Awesome" 12/17/01 10:14 AM Joe, This list is mostly "Unmoderated", we are expected to monitor ourselves, and it works very well, for the most part! So far I haven't recieved the "Awsome" emailing, so maybe it wasn't sent to the entire list, or???? Maybe there's a see-through pic of an AF Northern there??? ;-) S'incerely, David D. S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16016	From: Roger J. Dumas	Date: 12/17/2001
Subject: Re: Lionel Gabe is here!

Well Group.... The Lionel Gabe has arrived. Just received mine. Haven't had a chance to run it, but it appears to be nice. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16017	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 12/17/2001
Subject: PARTS HELP

Anyone know where I can get # boards for an LTI Santa Fe #8551....Also did these come with horns??? I have a new shell but there are no pre drilled holes for horns....Thank You....Mike S. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16018	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/17/2001
Subject: Re: PARTS HELP

Hmm, NO Li@@!L questions here! ;-) I dunno, but the '57'58 version of the EP-5 had horns, just in front of the pantagraph, looks like the same one used on the Fs, but just a single one. For parts, I'd try Mikes Trains, I think the phone number is 805-736-6747. He's in Lompac, CA. Carries almost everything, and VERY knowledgeable. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16019	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/17/2001
Subject: Can motor conversion

Hi guys, Here's one that's a stumper for me: I just bought an AC can motor and rectifier from Portlines. I want to run an original Flyer engine (#290) with the can motor, converting the AC current from the track to DC current in the tender. Did I buy the right can motor? I hooked it all up according to the directions and it doesn't run. Here's what I've checked so far: 1.) The gears in the chassis are free and non-binding. 2.) The reverse unit cycles, the drum is clean, the fingers are straight and make good contact. 3.) I pick up AC current from the track via the tender wheels okay. 4.) I can spin the motor drive shaft with my fingers when it's disconnected from the chassis. Is there a measurement I could take from the tender leads to the can motor, and if so, what instrument would I use, and what measurement would I expect to get? I need to determine if the problem is with the tender/rectifier arrangement or the can motor. Is there a way I can run the motor without a connection to the tender as a way to test the motor? Can anyone suggest what further tests I should do, or where I can find the information I need? Thanks, Tim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16020	From: david_s_garber	Date: 12/17/2001
Subject: what gauge ?

was looking at some wind up trains made in Germany. 48mm between center of rail head, what is this considered? Thanks Dave Garber

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16021	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 12/17/2001
Subject: 342DC AD

Hi Guys, I will be listing a 342DC again on E-bay the # is 1678034698 take a look If intersted contact me....The res. price is $265.00 and if a list you want it befor I relist it I'll throw in the shipping and a 2oz bottle of #4 smoke fluid...Thank You Mike S. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16022	From: joe messinger	Date: 12/17/2001
Subject: Re-railer

I'm having trouble with my knuckle coupler cars un-coupling almost everytime they pass through my re-railer. I have bent the trucks on the cars up as far as I can but the weight on the bottom of the coupler still hits the, pointed, center section of the re-railer causing the cars to uncouple. Seems my 651 passenger cars are the most prone to do this. Any suggestions for a remedy would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. Happy Holidays to all! Joe Messinger Morgantown, WV _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16023	From: joe messinger	Date: 12/17/2001
Subject: correction

Make that-650- passenger cars on my last post. Far as I know not too many passengers rode in baggage cars! Thanks, Joe _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16024	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 12/17/2001
Subject: rereailer

Joe: the rerailer rails are unsupported in the center and tend to sag down . Bend em back up. Maybe support them with styrene strip or something. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16025	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/17/2001
Subject: Re: Re-railer

Sounds like it could be a well known problem where the rails sag from not being well supported by the plastic. The easiest fix is shim enough popsicle sticks or whatever under the rail(s) in the offending area. It also is manifested by tender pickups losing contact if the plastic is higher than the sagging rail and the wheels ride on it. If that's not it let us know what else you find. joe messinger wrote: > > I'm having trouble with my knuckle coupler cars un-coupling almost everytime > they pass through my re-railer. I have bent the trucks on the cars up as > far as I can but the weight on the bottom of the coupler still hits the, > pointed, center section of the re-railer causing the cars to uncouple. Seems > my 651 passenger cars are the most prone to do this. > > Any suggestions for a remedy would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. > > Happy Holidays to all! > > Joe Messinger > Morgantown, WV > > _________________________________________________________________ > Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16026	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 12/17/2001
Subject: Re: what gauge ?

In a message dated 12/17/01 4:53:04 PM, dngarb@... writes: << was looking at some wind up trains made in Germany. 48 mm between center of rail head, what is this considered? Thanks Dave Garber>> I believe that what you have in your hands, Dave, is No. 1 gauge. Measuring from rail head to read head is the incorrect method of measuring gauge. I believe that if you measure from inside contact surface to inside contact surface of the rails you will most likely measure 45 mm -- No. 1 gauge (e.g., LGB, the big Aristocraft stuff) has a spacing of 45 mm (1 3/4"), but other tinplate trains were made in Europe matching this gauge, as well. See pages 46 through 51 of "Riding the Tinplate Rails" by Louis Hertz. By the way, S gauge was first known as H1 in England since 7/8" is half No. 1 gauge in the same way that H0 is half 0 (Number 0, not "oh"). Hope this helps. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16027	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 12/17/2001
Subject: Re: SHS rolling stock, and 48721 SF caboose

In a message dated 12/17/01 9:32:33 AM, david.horn@... writes: << ....but my AF's uncouple perfectly.>> Gee. How about that? And you thought that the new "stuff" is Gilbert AF compatible. <grin!> I wish that AM and SHS would cease using those cheap plastic "thingies" with the narrow release tongues, and that Flyonel (Chunking Flyer?) would cease tampering with what God and Gilbert wrought to perfection 50 years ago! <<On a separate and unrelated note, does any one know if the AF 48721 SF "merger" caboose is illuminated or not? >> It should have a light. Every Flyonel caboose is illuminated (by specification, anyway). RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16028	From: lensman@erols.com	Date: 12/17/2001
Subject: Re: AF 18B Transfomer - No separate throttle control

Okay, found the culprit . . . seems that a solder lug for one variable output was contacting the metal mounting plate while the fiber washer on the other variable output had worn through. Makes a convient circuit. Anyhow, corrected the problem. Now if I could only figure out why all my 4-6-2 and 4-6-4 locos want to derail at 720 switch (on the turn to right)! Jerry Mid Life Crisis and the American Flyer Collector Empire. David Dewey wrote: > Jerry, > The two tracks are not connected in any way, like by a switched track?? > S' > David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16029	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 12/17/2001
Subject: derailments at switch (was no separate throttle control)

Jerry: have you tried placing a piece of shirt cardboard or something under the outer side of the switch to superelevate (tilt) the outer rail of the curve a little? Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16030	From: jahoozdumm	Date: 12/17/2001
Subject: Re: PARTS HELP

anormal1@a... wrote: >Anyone know where I can get # boards for an LTI Santa Fe >#8551....Also did these come with horns??? I have a new shell but >there are no pre drilled holes for horns.... That would be the chopped-nosed blue/yellow GP7 that Lionel/AF calls a GP20. Nope, they didn't come with horns. As far as I know, none of the low-nose L/AF Geeps did. As for # boards, do you mean decals, or the # board lenses? The lenses should be available from any Lionel parts dealer. (I think they are one part with the headlight lenses.) #ing decals are a more complicated matter. Dunno what works well for that purpose... Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16031	From: kathy/tom Gerbasi	Date: 12/17/2001
Subject: bad virus

Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 11:13 PM Subject: Re: Bad Virus--Getting Passed Via address books > I had this virus on my computer as well. Please make sure you follow the > instructions below very carefully. > > Debbie Coultis > > ----- Original Message ----- > Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 6:15 PM > Subject: FW: Bad Virus > > > > > > Subject: Fw: Bad Virus > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Bad Virus > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > Many apologies for this, but I have picked up a virus that is > transmitted > > > automatically via address books. Because I have your address means that > > > you're likely to have the virus. The virus is not detected by McAfee > or > > > Norton, and lies dormant for 14 days before it then closes down your > > entire > > > system. The attached letter is a simple yet effective method of > finding > > > and deleting the virus before it can do you any harm. Please act > > PROMPTLY. > > > > > > > > > This is a virus that is spread from address book to > > > address book. It is apparently undectectable by Norton > > > and McAfee. It remains dormant for abut 14 days then > > > activates and wipes out the hard drive data. > > > > > > The directions for removing it are easy. > > > > > > 1. Go to 'start' - then to 'find or search' (depending > > > on your computer) > > > 2. In the 'search for files or folders' type in > > > sulfnbk.exe -- this is the virus. > > > 3. In the 'look in' make sure you're searching Drive C. > > > 4. Hit 'search' button (or find) > > > 5. If this file shows up (it's an ugly blackish icon > > > that will have the name 'sulfnbk.exe') DO NOT OPEN IT > > > 6. Right click on the file - go down to delete and > > > left click. > > > 7. It will ask you if you want to send it to the > > > recycle bin, say yes. > > > 8. Go to your desktop (where all your icons are) and > > > double click on the recycle bin. > > > 9. Right click on sulfnbk.exe and delete again - or > > > empty the bin. > > > If you find it send this email to all in your address > > > book, because that's how it's transferred. > > > > > > Once again, many apologies. > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16032	From: kathy/tom Gerbasi	Date: 12/17/2001
Subject: maybe not a bad virus

I don't know what's going on with the virus, but you should read this . . . anybody who has deleted "sulfnbk.exe" is the victim of a hoax. this file > is not a virus, it's part of microsoft windows- it's a little-known > utility for fixing long filenames. nobody ever uses it, most people > don't know it's there, but it is a valid part of windows. > > if you've rushed out and emailed all of your friends, telling them to > delete this file, you need to forward this message to them as well. > > this web page is mcafee's "virus library" entry on the hoax. it includes > directions on how to get this file back if you've already deleted it. > > http://vil.mcafee.com/dispVirus.asp?virus_k=99084 > > you may also want to check out kua.net's virus information page, > especially the last question in the FAQ (which i've just added because > of this incident.) > > http://virus.kua.net/ And from another email message flying through. . . . Here's what to do to reinstall SULFNBK.exe if you have already deleted the file: A. Click DOWNLOAD on this E-mail 1. You will see an option box. Select: Download Now 2. A screen will pop up showing folders 3. Click on the little downpointing arrow to the right of the top display box B. Downlaod the attachment directly into C:\Windows\COMMAND 1. Browse Windows Explorer 2. Click on the little [+] box to the left of Hard Drive (C:) 3. This will reveal all the contents of your C drive 4. Scroll down until you get to the W's 5. Click on the little [+] box to the left of the little folder marked Windows 6. This will reveal all the contents of your Windows folder 7. Scroll down until you you get to the file called: Command 8. Double click on the folder immediately to the left of the word: Command 9. It will now appear to be open 10. Click the option: SAVE [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16033	From: Bente Velapoldi	Date: 12/17/2001
Subject: Re: correction

Hi: If memory serves me right, in 1979 riding from Gaithersburg, MD to Washington DC on C&O, we had a car which I probably would have labelled a combine or a made-over baggage car - no seats, and we all stood for the ride. It was the first car after the engine - never thought about it, but Joe's comment jogged my memory. Only did it for about 9 months, and did try to avoid that car after the first time, especially if I had to outline a speech. Rance Velapoldi joe messinger wrote: > Make that-650- passenger cars on my last post. Far as I know not too many > passengers rode in baggage cars! > > Thanks, > > Joe > > _________________________________________________________________ > Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16034	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/17/2001
Subject: Re: SHS rolling stock, and 48721 SF caboose

While I agree that I don't understand why everyone keeps fiddling with a tried & true coupler design (and usually fails in making one at least as good!), not all Flyonel cabooses (cabeese?) are illuminated. The first bay window job isn't, but I've forgotten which one it is, chessie maybe? S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16035	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/17/2001
Subject: Re: AF 18B Transfomer - No separate throttle control

Jerry, Check the moveable part for warpage, it is probably low in the center (could also be called high on the ends!). S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16036	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/17/2001
Subject: Re: bad virus

This is a hoax! That file is a MS file that alows long file names to be used. David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16037	From: TED R LARSON	Date: 12/18/2001
Subject: sulfnbk.exe

This is an administrative note, there is a "virus" hoax that could cause YOU to be the virus to your own computer if you follow its instructions. DO NOT FOLLOW the instructions to delete sulfnbk.exe THIS IS A HOAX, the file is part of Windows. Use your browser to look it up at any of the hoax alert websites. If you have deleted the file, some websites give instructions on how to restore the file. Ted Larson On Mon, 17 Dec 2001 23:48:45 -0500 writes: > Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 11:13 PM > Subject: Re: Bad Virus--Getting Passed Via address books > > > > I had this virus on my computer as well. Please make sure you > follow the > > instructions below very carefully. > > > > > > 5. If this file shows up (it's an ugly blackish icon > > > > that will have the name 'sulfnbk.exe') DO NOT OPEN IT > > > 6. Right click on the file - go down to delete and > > > left click.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16038	From: Craig E Manning	Date: 12/18/2001
Subject: Re: bad virus

This virus is an executable (.exe) and can only be passed on with attachments, receiving email text (body) from the sender will not infect. The .exe must be opened also. Here at S-Trains I believe all attachments are stripped off incoming (to server) email. So it by virtue of being a member here, is unlikely that you have this virus. However if you received private email w/an attachment that could have contained the virus, from kathy/tom, then it would be wise to check to see if this virus is on your PC's. Mine (home and work) do not contain it and I use Norton AV here at work. Craig frisco1501 Rolla, MO U.S. Geological Survey Cartographer "kathy/tom Gerbasi" To: <kgerbasi@wny cc: ip.net> Subject: [S-Trains] bad virus 12/17/01 10:48 PM Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 11:13 PM Subject: Re: Bad Virus--Getting Passed Via address books > I had this virus on my computer as well. Please make sure you follow the > instructions below very carefully. > > Debbie Coultis > > ----- Original Message ----- > Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 6:15 PM > Subject: FW: Bad Virus > > > > > > Subject: Fw: Bad Virus > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Bad Virus > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > Many apologies for this, but I have picked up a virus that is > transmitted > > > automatically via address books. Because I have your address means that > > > you're likely to have the virus. The virus is not detected by McAfee > or > > > Norton, and lies dormant for 14 days before it then closes down your > > entire > > > system. The attached letter is a simple yet effective method of > finding > > > and deleting the virus before it can do you any harm. Please act > > PROMPTLY. > > > > > > > > > This is a virus that is spread from address book to > > > address book. It is apparently undectectable by Norton > > > and McAfee. It remains dormant for abut 14 days then > > > activates and wipes out the hard drive data. > > > > > > The directions for removing it are easy. > > > > > > 1. Go to 'start' - then to 'find or search' (depending > > > on your computer) > > > 2. In the 'search for files or folders' type in > > > sulfnbk.exe -- this is the virus. > > > 3. In the 'look in' make sure you're searching Drive C. > > > 4. Hit 'search' button (or find) > > > 5. If this file shows up (it's an ugly blackish icon > > > that will have the name 'sulfnbk.exe') DO NOT OPEN IT > > > 6. Right click on the file - go down to delete and > > > left click. > > > 7. It will ask you if you want to send it to the > > > recycle bin, say yes. > > > 8. Go to your desktop (where all your icons are) and > > > double click on the recycle bin. > > > 9. Right click on sulfnbk.exe and delete again - or > > > empty the bin. > > > If you find it send this email to all in your address > > > book, because that's how it's transferred. > > > > > > Once again, many apologies. > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16039	From: Craig E Manning	Date: 12/18/2001
Subject: Re: bad virus

Never mind mentioned above; I had no idea this was a hoax, but even so, generally speaking, whether Norton AV, McAfee, PC-Cillin, or whatever, detects a virus or not, it MUST arrive at your local PC in the form of an attachment. Some can be disguised within an image file, but it still must arrive to you as an attachment, and you have to open the attachment to release the virus. C. Rolla, MO "Craig E Manning" To: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com <cmanning@usg cc: s.gov> Subject: Re: [S-Trains] bad virus 12/18/01 06:13 AM This virus is an executable (.exe) and can only be passed on with attachments, receiving email text (body) from the sender will not infect. The .exe must be opened also. Here at S-Trains I believe all attachments are stripped off incoming (to server) email. So it by virtue of being a member here, is unlikely that you have this virus. However if you received private email w/an attachment that could have contained the virus, from kathy/tom, then it would be wise to check to see if this virus is on your PC's. Mine (home and work) do not contain it and I use Norton AV here at work. Craig frisco1501 Rolla, MO U.S. Geological Survey Cartographer "kathy/tom Gerbasi" To: <kgerbasi@wny cc: ip.net> Subject: [S-Trains] bad virus 12/17/01 10:48 PM Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 11:13 PM Subject: Re: Bad Virus--Getting Passed Via address books > I had this virus on my computer as well. Please make sure you follow the > instructions below very carefully. > > Debbie Coultis > > ----- Original Message ----- > Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 6:15 PM > Subject: FW: Bad Virus > > > > > > Subject: Fw: Bad Virus > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Bad Virus > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > Many apologies for this, but I have picked up a virus that is > transmitted > > > automatically via address books. Because I have your address means that > > > you're likely to have the virus. The virus is not detected by McAfee > or > > > Norton, and lies dormant for 14 days before it then closes down your > > entire > > > system. The attached letter is a simple yet effective method of > finding > > > and deleting the virus before it can do you any harm. Please act > > PROMPTLY. > > > > > > > > > This is a virus that is spread from address book to > > > address book. It is apparently undectectable by Norton > > > and McAfee. It remains dormant for abut 14 days then > > > activates and wipes out the hard drive data. > > > > > > The directions for removing it are easy. > > > > > > 1. Go to 'start' - then to 'find or search' (depending > > > on your computer) > > > 2. In the 'search for files or folders' type in > > > sulfnbk.exe -- this is the virus. > > > 3. In the 'look in' make sure you're searching Drive C. > > > 4. Hit 'search' button (or find) > > > 5. If this file shows up (it's an ugly blackish icon > > > that will have the name 'sulfnbk.exe') DO NOT OPEN IT > > > 6. Right click on the file - go down to delete and > > > left click. > > > 7. It will ask you if you want to send it to the > > > recycle bin, say yes. > > > 8. Go to your desktop (where all your icons are) and > > > double click on the recycle bin. > > > 9. Right click on sulfnbk.exe and delete again - or > > > empty the bin. > > > If you find it send this email to all in your address > > > book, because that's how it's transferred. > > > > > > Once again, many apologies. > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16040	From: kathy/tom Gerbasi	Date: 12/18/2001
Subject: sorry for hoax message

Sorry for the confusion about the virus hoax. My husband told me it wasn't a virus but I wasn't paying attention. Kathy Gerbasi ----- Original Message ----- From: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 3:43 AM Subject: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1246 > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > There are 2 messages in this issue. > > Topics in this digest: > > 1. Re: AF 18B Transfomer - No separate throttle control > From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> > 2. Re: bad virus > From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 23:41:01 -0800 > From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> > Subject: Re: AF 18B Transfomer - No separate throttle control > > Jerry, > Check the moveable part for warpage, it is probably low in the center > (could also be called high on the ends!). > S' > David D. > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 23:43:48 -0800 > From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> > Subject: Re: bad virus > > This is a hoax! That file is a MS file that alows long file names to be > used. > David D. > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________ > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16041	From: Horn, David	Date: 12/18/2001
Subject: Re: SHS rolling stock, and 48721 SF caboose

Thanks everyone as usual for your help. It turns out the 48721 is illuminated, and I guess it's just par for the course so far that there's one trade off or another between good 'ol Flyer and the new stuff. The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for the addressee(s). BEST! Software, Inc. disclaims any responsibility for the contents of this message, including any attachments. The views expressed in this message are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect the views of the company or any other employee of the company. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, please notify BEST! Software, Inc. immediately by E-mailing Postmaster@... and destroy all copies of this message.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16042	From: Horn, David	Date: 12/18/2001
Subject: Re: fussy switches

When faced with a switch problem I've found it helpful to run the problematic engine through the switch while closely observing how the engine's wheels (on both sides) interact with the rails and frog of the switch. Sometimes even gently sliding the engine back and forth through the switch will tell you something. It might rock, get stuck, shift, or lift giving you a clue of what's wrong. Could be the drivers aren't quite gauged properly, or the rails of the switch aren't gauged correctly all the way through. The frog might be loose and rock too much, or fail to meet the outer or inner rail heads like it should. Atlantics and Pacifics are usually pretty robust through switches. Hudsons on the other hand can be a little more switch sensitive - - maybe because they tend to be a bit top-heavy tipsy. The most challenging engine I've found is the 21004 at high speeds straight through left hand switch from the forked end. Their drivers have such short flanges that unless the far end of the frog meets the inside railhead just flush and level, the front right driver can momentarily get lifted as it catches the edge of the inside rail and pop the whole engine off in a wild trajectory. The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for the addressee(s). BEST! Software, Inc. disclaims any responsibility for the contents of this message, including any attachments. The views expressed in this message are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect the views of the company or any other employee of the company. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, please notify BEST! Software, Inc. immediately by E-mailing Postmaster@... and destroy all copies of this message.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16043	From: roberte613@aol.com	Date: 12/18/2001
Subject: Wide-Eyed Kids

Well, my wife and I had our annual Christmas open house this weekend, always a chance to catch up with our friends and show off the holiday layout. This year we had about 12 6-11 year olds in-house as part of the group of about 60 and they were fascinated. One section of the layout has the cow loader, Sam, Log loader, Coal loader, MTH gas station, Milk stand, Barrel loader, various gates and semaphores, and my boyhood 302 hauling appropriate cars. They could have pushed buttons for hours. As a matter of fact they did. On the mainline board, I'm running two trains, an AM Southern Crescent and a Marx Christmas train, one through a mountain, both passing over a Hellgate bridge, from a MTH Z4000 using their remote control. The kids loved it, and found the remote very kid-user friendly. Reminded them of TV I bet. Anyway, I spent way more time with the kids than the adults and I bet I had the best time of anyone there. Just the other day my 10 year old son asked what would happen to all the trains when I got "too old" (euphemism for died) for them. When I told him I hoped he'd want them and share them with his family and friends just like we do now -- what a smile! Anyway. Happy holidays to all and renewed thanks for the great help in keeping things running. If any decent pictures of this year's layout come out, I'll post them. Robert Ellis

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16044	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 12/18/2001
Subject: Re: SHS rolling stock, and 48721 SF caboose

In a message dated 12/17/01 9:32:33 AM Eastern Standard Time, david.horn@... writes: << More often than not no matter how fast or slow I run ( or even park) the train over the uncouplers (5 different ones) those great cars just stay coupled to each other, but my AF's uncouple perfectly. >> Dave, The way I find myself (almost unconsciously) handling this problem is to alternate vintage Gilbert (you know -- the quality made rolling stock made in New Haven, USA about 45 years ago) with the new (you know -- the pretty, but operationally challenged stuff) rolling stock so at least one working coupler is involved in joining two cars. I also strategically place vintage Gilbert cars in selected positions in a consist if I know I will spotting an operating car at an accessory during operation. Hope this helps. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16045	From: kathy/tom Gerbasi	Date: 12/18/2001
Subject: hoax: apology and remedy

I received this message from computer experts (see below...per theri suggestion I forward you this message). I am offcially out of the virus reporting business.Sorry for all the trouble ! Kathy Gerbasi ----- Original Message ----- From: John Zeder To: kathy/tom Gerbasi Cc: Bruce Watkins Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 9:14 AM Subject: Re: bad virus Hi Kathy, Although there are many nasty viruses out there, there are almost as many hoaxes. This is one of the hoaxes. You can read more about this at http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/sulfnbk.exe.warninghtml I recommend sending this informative retraction to the same list that received the "virus" warning. Hope your holidays are good for you and yours. John Zeder Arista Technologies ----------------------------------------------------- At 11:48 PM 12/17/01, you wrote: Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 11:13 PM Subject: Re: Bad Virus--Getting Passed Via address books [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16046	From: Ted Larson	Date: 12/18/2001
Subject: NP 1974

Here's a steam e-list message that will be helpful for "correct" usage of vintage stock cars. Ted Message: 11 Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 21:33:40 -0000 From: "bnsd45" <bnsd45 Subject: Re: Stock Car Time Warp --- In STMFC@y..., "Jeff Prince" <rockisl@y...> wrote: > Andy Harman wrote: > > http://www.hhcustom.com/nspmg/photos/prototype/xnpstock.jpg > > > > Date of photo is July, 1974. Northbound at Osborn Tower, Hammond IN, on the Penn Central. Jeff Prince wrote: > According to the October 1974 ORER, there were still 587 of these cars > (series 82500-83249) in service. Now, whether or not they were actually in "use" is another story. Thanks for posting the numbers in service for us Jeff. This class of NP stock cars was used for a variety of commodities during the 1970s (post-NP era), including grain loading, livestock, and company tie service (principal tie service car during this time). I would have to ask Dan Holbrook for sure, but I don't think they were used for hides. Andy, you earlier asked about offline uses for these cars. In the early-mid 1970s this NP car was probably a grain load (returning empty) to Buffalo or Albany on PC. You asked about other stock cars; BN rostered several flavors of ex-Q, NP, and GN stockcars, and many were still in use in the services mentioned above. Livestock was loaded at several BN sites, although by the 1970s most were NP sites, such as the Gallatin Valley of MT. FWIW. David Lehlbach ===== Ted Larson __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16047	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/18/2001
Subject: Bridge rectifiers from Radio Shack

Hi, There have been a lot a great tips on how to test and get the can motor running I recently bought. Thanks to all of you. I will respond back to each individual as soon as I am done digesting the information. In the meanwhile, can someone please let me know what the part number is or what I should otherwise ask for at Radio Shack when buying a bridge rectifier? I want to convert my track voltage to DC. I don't want to get rid of the AC transformers, however. My goal is to remove the reverse units from the tenders. I figure I'll reverse the direction of the trains manually by using DPDT switches. Thanks for all your help, Tim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16048	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 12/18/2001
Subject: Re: Bridge rectifiers from Radio Shack

Tim, We used 4amp-50 volt rectifiers on all the converted eqpt at the National Toy Train Museum (NTTM) with no problems, very few failures during my time there. Just follow the posts on the piece. Jim Lyle [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16049	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 12/18/2001
Subject: MTH 787 log loader (30-9119)

I just talked to Don Heimburger and was informed the log loaders are in Boston. He should receive them either just before or after Christmas. So it looks like these will start arriving in early January. Thorin P.S. Do not take me to task for calling the MTH 30-9119 a 787. I have wanted a NEW 787 that I could OPERATE without guilt for 30 years! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16050	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/18/2001
Subject: Re: MTH 787 log loader (30-9119)

Great news!!! Thanks! Hey, MTH calls it a 787! S David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16051	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 12/18/2001
Subject: Can motor conversion

- Greeting`S' - The can motors from S'n'S are beautiful in design and execution. I selected DC motors so I may not hit all the possibilities that confront Tim Brown. As I read his question, I understand that he bought the AC version of the can motor * and * the bridge rectifier. This could be redundant, circuit- wise. Methinks Tim has noted that the AC version comes with rectifier. Nonetheless, the motor by itself should spin up easily on 5 to 10 VDC. It just might spin along for a minute on a 9 VDC transistor radio battery. Similarly, the connection points for the motor are the fingers on the reversing drum. A 12 or 14 V bulb connected to those fingers should glow with increasing intensity as the voltage is turned up, presuming that the reverser is not in neutral. This should be true with the motor connected or disconnected. A DC voltmeter across the motor leads will tell what voltage is applied there. A DC ammeter placed in series with one of the leads (DO NOT CONNECT TO BOTH LEADS) will tell if the motor is drawing current. Cheer`S' and Merry Christmas Ammeter George

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16052	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/18/2001
Subject: Re: cranky 283

Hi David, Thanks so much for your insights. I took out the reverse unit and followed your wiring instructions. Success! Now for the good part: I wired a bridge rectifier in between a transformer and a piece of test track to supply the track with DC voltage. The train runs very well in forward. How do I get it to run in reverse (without resorting to a reverse unit)? I have a DPDT switch that I have wired up every way I can think of. I can only get the engine to run in forward. I'm so close. My goal is to take all the reverse units out of all my locos and run on DC - hopefully in either direction at will. Thanks again, Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: Horn, David To: 'Tim Brown' Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 10:32 AM Subject: RE: [S-Trains] cranky 283 Make sure you've isolated everything (field and brushes) from their normal connections. Then, connect one lead from the 7-15v post to one field connection point. Then a lead from the opposite field connection point to one of the brush caps (I usually connect to the opposite side's brush first, i.e. left field to right brush). Then one lead from the opposite brush cap to the Base post on the transformer. Slowly apply power and it should run. To reverse the direction of the motor, swap field connections. Let me know what you discover. PS My instructions below were wrong. I should have known better than to send them in a hurry from the office. However, you'll see in the archives I was aptly and quickly corrected by others on the list. Such is the beauty and power of this group. -----Original Message----- From: Tim Brown [mailto:Timboy@...] Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 10:03 AM To: david_horn@... Subject: Re: [S-Trains] cranky 283 Hi, Is by-passing the reverse unit just as simple as it sounds? Should I take one lead and pair it to a field and brush, then take another lead and pair it to the other field and other brush? Is that all there is to it? Thanks, Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: <david_horn@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 5:06 PM Subject: [S-Trains] cranky 283 > John, by-passing the rev-unit (e-unit is a Lionel term) is a great test, but > must be done very carefully. Using the plug-board as mentioned is > important. Otherwise, assuming your brush posts and field posts are > isolated, you need four lead wires - - a base lead and 7-15V lead connected > to the brush posts, and a similar pair assigned to the field posts. The > idea is AC "flows" through the armature from brush to brush, while in > parallel from one end of the field to the other. Depending on the relative > L to R directions of the flow through each, the motor spins in one > direction, or the other. If you get all that and wire it accordingly, but > still have no motion, you've likely got a broken field or armature segment > wire, or a "leak" (partial shorting out due to a weakenin of the ceramic > insulation) in one or the other. Rewinding should solve that. > > PS I once bought a basket case 326 with the pulmors on the front axles. As > a part of getting it 'refreshed' I changed them out to the rear set. It ran > better, but later I learned it very well could have come from the factory > with them in the front. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for the addressee(s). BEST! Software, Inc. disclaims any responsibility for the contents of this message, including any attachments. The views expressed in this message are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect the views of the company or any other employee of the company. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, please notify BEST! Software, Inc. immediately by E-mailing Postmaster@... and destroy all copies of this message. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16053	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 12/18/2001
Subject: can motor conversion

Holiday greetings to everyone. I have set up a floor layout with all kinds of stuff on it -- bridges, trestles, yards, etc. I would like to tell you folks that the S 'n S can motor conversion is FABULOUS. i put the AC version with bridge rectifier in a pul-mor equipped K-5 that I made up from parts. The thing crawls all over the layout without stalling or stopping, walks up the trestles, picks its way through yard tracks. It runs superbly at high speed too. Much more responsive to the controls than any Gilbert motor. I was sent an early sample of this motor to review for S Gaugian. The review and a Roundhouse about the conversion (and other things) will probably be in the next issue. I tested this motor on a variety of test loops and it showed superb slow speed performance. I wrote the review and article on the basis of these tests. But when you put that sucker on a real layout, its amazing quality really reveals itself! Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16054	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/18/2001
Subject: Re: cranky 283

Not sure I understand the problem, but: If you have a wound Flyer motor, a coversion to DC which uses polarity reversing is at Paul York's websire at: http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/repair/rectifier.htm If your're using a can motor just hook the 2 leads to the tender trucks and you can run with DC polarity reversing. For polarity reverse hook the 2 center poles of the DPDT switch across the transformer output. Cross wire the other 4 terminals (2 wires hooked across the opposite corner terminals.) Take the 2 terminals from one end (either end) and hook them to the track. Now when you throw the switch the polarity to the track is reversed. Put the rectifier and switch in a Radio Shack project box and you look like a pro. Your locos will reverse flawlessly and coast over dirty track without reversing. Tim Brown wrote: > > Hi David, > > Thanks so much for your insights. I took out the reverse unit and followed your wiring instructions. Success! Now for the good part: I wired a bridge rectifier in between a transformer and a piece of test track to supply the track with DC voltage. The train runs very well in forward. How do I get it to run in reverse (without resorting to a reverse unit)? I have a DPDT switch that I have wired up every way I can think of. I can only get the engine to run in forward. I'm so close. My goal is to take all the reverse units out of all my locos and run on DC - hopefully in either direction at will. > > Thanks again, > Tim > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Horn, David > To: 'Tim Brown' > Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 10:32 AM > Subject: RE: [S-Trains] cranky 283 > > Make sure you've isolated everything (field and brushes) from their normal connections. Then, connect one lead from the 7-15v post to one field connection point. Then a lead from the opposite field connection point to one of the brush caps (I usually connect to the opposite side's brush first, i.e. left field to right brush). Then one lead from the opposite brush cap to the Base post on the transformer. Slowly apply power and it should run. To reverse the direction of the motor, swap field connections. Let me know what you discover. > > PS My instructions below were wrong. I should have known better than to send them in a hurry from the office. However, you'll see in the archives I was aptly and quickly corrected by others on the list. Such is the beauty and power of this group. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tim Brown [mailto:Timboy@...] > Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 10:03 AM > To: david_horn@... > Subject: Re: [S-Trains] cranky 283 > > Hi, > Is by-passing the reverse unit just as simple as it sounds? Should I take one lead and pair it to a field and brush, then take another lead and pair it to the other field and other brush? Is that all there is to it? > Thanks, > Tim > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <david_horn@...> > To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 5:06 PM > Subject: [S-Trains] cranky 283 > > > John, by-passing the rev-unit (e-unit is a Lionel term) is a great test, but > > must be done very carefully. Using the plug-board as mentioned is > > important. Otherwise, assuming your brush posts and field posts are > > isolated, you need four lead wires - - a base lead and 7-15V lead connected > > to the brush posts, and a similar pair assigned to the field posts. The > > idea is AC "flows" through the armature from brush to brush, while in > > parallel from one end of the field to the other. Depending on the relative > > L to R directions of the flow through each, the motor spins in one > > direction, or the other. If you get all that and wire it accordingly, but > > still have no motion, you've likely got a broken field or armature segment > > wire, or a "leak" (partial shorting out due to a weakenin of the ceramic > > insulation) in one or the other. Rewinding should solve that. > > > > PS I once bought a basket case 326 with the pulmors on the front axles. As > > a part of getting it 'refreshed' I changed them out to the rear set. It ran > > better, but later I learned it very well could have come from the factory > > with them in the front. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for the addressee(s). BEST! Software, Inc. disclaims any responsibility for the contents of this message, including any attachments. The views expressed in this message are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect the views of the company or any other employee of the company. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, please notify BEST! Software, Inc. immediately by E-mailing Postmaster@... and destroy all copies of this message. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16055	From: TWesthelle@aol.com	Date: 12/18/2001
Subject: American Flyer HO Value

Im wondering if anyone here on the list has the American Flyer value guides for any HO passenger cars. I have three NP passenger cars numbered 33540, 33541, and 33543 like new in their original boxes. Wonder if anyone has the guide to give me an approximate value, have a HO collector wanting to trade for some S Gauge, trying to determine the value of the cars. Thanks in advance. Tom Westhelle Oviedo, FL 32765

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16056	From: up6936	Date: 12/18/2001
Subject: Train Fest 2001

Hi all, Thought I would post a little info on The model railroad show called Train Fest in Tacoma,Washington. Washington State History Museum 1911 Pacific Avenue Tacoma, Washington 98402 Phone Number: 253-272-3500 Driving Directions: From I-5 North or South take the City Center exit #133. Follow the I- 705/City Center signs to 21st Street where you'll turn left, and then turn right onto Pacific Avenue. Museum parking lot is located on Pacific Avenue and behind the museum near the Group Entrance. http://www.wshs.org/wshm/trainfest.htm Bring the whole family down to the Washington State History Museum for the Sixth Annual Model Train Fest! 10am to 4pm. This event for all ages, celebrates the railroads past and present. Put on your conductor's hat and get ready for a ride through the golden age of railroads! The Model Train Fest will run from December 26 to December 31, and is included with the price of admission to the museum. The Washington State History Museum is proud to have the largest permanent train layout in the State of Washington. ( 90x20 feet). This fabulous exhibit is built and operated by the Puget Sound Model Railroad Engineers. ( www.psmre.org ). Temporary displays will join the permanent layout and includes the Tacoma Northwestern Model Railroad Club, Puget Sound Model Railroad Engineers, Friends of the South Cle Elum Depot, Onyx Division Puget Sound N-Scale, Pierce County Lionel Club, and Mount Rainier N-Scale. Especially designed for children are the LEGO Christmas Train Display by TrainBuilder Productions, Clint Cannon's Kids Play G Scale, and the Washington State Operation Lifesaver booth. Also, Jim Fredrickson, noted regional photographer and railroad expert, will be signing his new book Steam To Diesel on Friday, December 28th from 1:00pm-4:00pm. Washington State History Museum 1911 Pacific Avenue Tacoma, Washington 98402

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16057	From: Scott Holm	Date: 12/18/2001
Subject: Re: cranky 283

-- Tim Brown <Timboy@...> wrote: > Now for the good part: > I wired a bridge rectifier in between a transformer and a piece of > test track to supply the track with DC voltage. The train runs very > well in forward. How do I get it to run in reverse (without > resorting to a reverse unit)? I have a DPDT switch that I have wired > up every way I can think of. I can only get the engine to run in > forward. I'm so close. My goal is to take all the reverse units out > of all my locos and run on DC - hopefully in either direction at > will. A DPDT switch to switch the DC polarity isn't going to cause an AF universal motor to reverse. Consider that with AC the polarity is reversing 60 times a second and it still runs in one direction because both the field polarity and the armature polarity reverse together. This is the same thing that happens when the DC polarity is reversed with the DPDT switch. You have to reverse the polarity on only the armature or coil and not the other. This means using a DC magnet instead of a field coil. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16058	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/18/2001
Subject: Re: cranky 283

Hi Chuck, Thanks for your response. I believe I'll try a combination of your two suggestions. I have a wound Flyer motor (standard issue in a #290 Pacific). First, I'll put the rectifier in between the field and armature (per Paul's procedure). That will convert the AC current from the track to DC current into the motor. Then I'll use your plan for a polarity reverse switch using the DPDT switch as you described with AC current output from the transformer, through the switch, onto the track and into the rectifier in the loco. Does this sound doable? Thanks, Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Smith" <cesmith@...> To: "Tim Brown" <Timboy@...> Cc: "Horn, David" <David.Horn@...>; "S-List" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 6:07 PM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] cranky 283 > Not sure I understand the problem, but: > If you have a wound Flyer motor, a coversion to DC which uses polarity > reversing is at Paul York's websire at: > http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/repair/rectifier.htm > If your're using a can motor just hook the 2 leads to the tender trucks > and you can run with DC polarity reversing. > For polarity reverse hook the 2 center poles of the DPDT switch across > the transformer output. Cross wire the other 4 terminals (2 wires > hooked across the opposite corner terminals.) Take the 2 terminals from > one end (either end) and hook them to the track. Now when you throw the > switch the polarity to the track is reversed. Put the rectifier and > switch in a Radio Shack project box and you look like a pro. > Your locos will reverse flawlessly and coast over dirty track without > reversing. > > Tim Brown wrote: > > > > Hi David, > > > > Thanks so much for your insights. I took out the reverse unit and followed your wiring instructions. Success! Now for the good part: I wired a bridge rectifier in between a transformer and a piece of test track to supply the track with DC voltage. The train runs very well in forward. How do I get it to run in reverse (without resorting to a reverse unit)? I have a DPDT switch that I have wired up every way I can think of. I can only get the engine to run in forward. I'm so close. My goal is to take all the reverse units out of all my locos and run on DC - hopefully in either direction at will. > > > > Thanks again, > > Tim > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Horn, David > > To: 'Tim Brown' > > Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 10:32 AM > > Subject: RE: [S-Trains] cranky 283 > > > > Make sure you've isolated everything (field and brushes) from their normal connections. Then, connect one lead from the 7-15v post to one field connection point. Then a lead from the opposite field connection point to one of the brush caps (I usually connect to the opposite side's brush first, i.e. left field to right brush). Then one lead from the opposite brush cap to the Base post on the transformer. Slowly apply power and it should run. To reverse the direction of the motor, swap field connections. Let me know what you discover. > > > > PS My instructions below were wrong. I should have known better than to send them in a hurry from the office. However, you'll see in the archives I was aptly and quickly corrected by others on the list. Such is the beauty and power of this group. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Tim Brown [mailto:Timboy@...] > > Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 10:03 AM > > To: david_horn@... > > Subject: Re: [S-Trains] cranky 283 > > > > Hi, > > Is by-passing the reverse unit just as simple as it sounds? Should I take one lead and pair it to a field and brush, then take another lead and pair it to the other field and other brush? Is that all there is to it? > > Thanks, > > Tim > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: <david_horn@...> > > To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 5:06 PM > > Subject: [S-Trains] cranky 283 > > > > > John, by-passing the rev-unit (e-unit is a Lionel term) is a great test, but > > > must be done very carefully. Using the plug-board as mentioned is > > > important. Otherwise, assuming your brush posts and field posts are > > > isolated, you need four lead wires - - a base lead and 7-15V lead connected > > > to the brush posts, and a similar pair assigned to the field posts. The > > > idea is AC "flows" through the armature from brush to brush, while in > > > parallel from one end of the field to the other. Depending on the relative > > > L to R directions of the flow through each, the motor spins in one > > > direction, or the other. If you get all that and wire it accordingly, but > > > still have no motion, you've likely got a broken field or armature segment > > > wire, or a "leak" (partial shorting out due to a weakenin of the ceramic > > > insulation) in one or the other. Rewinding should solve that. > > > > > > PS I once bought a basket case 326 with the pulmors on the front axles. As > > > a part of getting it 'refreshed' I changed them out to the rear set. It ran > > > better, but later I learned it very well could have come from the factory > > > with them in the front. > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for the addressee(s). BEST! Software, Inc. disclaims any responsibility for the contents of this message, including any attachments. The views expressed in this message are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect the views of the company or any other employee of the company. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, please notify BEST! Software, Inc. immediately by E-mailing Postmaster@... and destroy all copies of this message. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > -- > Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) > and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith > > "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool > than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16059	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/18/2001
Subject: Re: cranky 283

Not quite true. A DPDT switch that reverses the polarity of the field relative to the armature will reverse an AC wound motor. That's what the reverse unit does. However, this style of reversing requires the switch be mounted in the engine and is thus not remotely controlled. Flyer used this in a cheap Atlantic I once had. Scott Holm wrote: > A DPDT switch to switch the DC polarity isn't going to cause an AF > universal motor to reverse. Consider that with AC the polarity is > reversing 60 times a second and it still runs in one direction because > both the field polarity and the armature polarity reverse together. > This is the same thing that happens when the DC polarity is reversed > with the DPDT switch. You have to reverse the polarity on only the > armature or coil and not the other. This means using a DC magnet > instead of a field coil. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of > your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com > or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16060	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/18/2001
Subject: Re: cranky 283

> Tim Brown wrote: > > Hi Chuck, > Thanks for your response. I believe I'll try a combination of your > two suggestions. I have a wound Flyer motor (standard issue in a #290 > Pacific). First, I'll put the rectifier in between the field and > armature (per Paul's procedure). That will convert the AC current > from the track to DC current into the motor. Not quite. The motor is assumed to be running on DC. Merely putting the rectifier in between the field and armature doesn't make the motor truly DC. It just makes DC polarity reversing work, making the motor behave like a permanent magnet DC motor. I have never tried AC for running a motor with rectifier installed as shown at Paul's website. Let me know if it works. > Then I'll use your plan > for a polarity reverse switch using the DPDT switch as you described > with AC current output from the transformer, through the switch, onto > the track and into the rectifier in the loco. Does this sound doable? No. You need another rectifier to convert the transformer output to DC before it hits the track. The DPDT switch gos after the recifier so you're reversing the polarity of the DC with the switch. > Thanks, > Tim > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chuck Smith" <cesmith@...> > To: "Tim Brown" <Timboy@...> > Cc: "Horn, David" <David.Horn@...>; "S-List" > <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 6:07 PM > Subject: Re: [S-Trains] cranky 283 > > > Not sure I understand the problem, but: > > If you have a wound Flyer motor, a coversion to DC which uses > polarity > > reversing is at Paul York's websire at: > > http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/repair/rectifier.htm > > If your're using a can motor just hook the 2 leads to the tender > trucks > > and you can run with DC polarity reversing. > > For polarity reverse hook the 2 center poles of the DPDT switch > across > > the transformer output. Cross wire the other 4 terminals (2 wires > > hooked across the opposite corner terminals.) Take the 2 terminals > from > > one end (either end) and hook them to the track. Now when you throw > the > > switch the polarity to the track is reversed. Put the rectifier and > > switch in a Radio Shack project box and you look like a pro. > > Your locos will reverse flawlessly and coast over dirty track > without > > reversing. > > > > Tim Brown wrote: > > > > > > Hi David, > > > > > > Thanks so much for your insights. I took out the reverse unit and > followed your wiring instructions. Success! Now for the good part: > I wired a bridge rectifier in between a transformer and a piece of > test track to supply the track with DC voltage. The train runs very > well in forward. How do I get it to run in reverse (without resorting > to a reverse unit)? I have a DPDT switch that I have wired up every > way I can think of. I can only get the engine to run in forward. I'm > so close. My goal is to take all the reverse units out of all my > locos and run on DC - hopefully in either direction at will. > > > > > > Thanks again, > > > Tim > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Horn, David > > > To: 'Tim Brown' > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 10:32 AM > > > Subject: RE: [S-Trains] cranky 283 > > > > > > Make sure you've isolated everything (field and brushes) from > their normal connections. Then, connect one lead from the 7-15v post > to one field connection point. Then a lead from the opposite field > connection point to one of the brush caps (I usually connect to the > opposite side's brush first, i.e. left field to right brush). Then > one lead from the opposite brush cap to the Base post on the > transformer. Slowly apply power and it should run. To reverse the > direction of the motor, swap field connections. Let me know what you > discover. > > > > > > PS My instructions below were wrong. I should have known better > than to send them in a hurry from the office. However, you'll see in > the archives I was aptly and quickly corrected by others on the list. > Such is the beauty and power of this group. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Tim Brown [mailto:Timboy@...] > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 10:03 AM > > > To: david_horn@... > > > Subject: Re: [S-Trains] cranky 283 > > > > > > Hi, > > > Is by-passing the reverse unit just as simple as it sounds? > Should I take one lead and pair it to a field and brush, then take > another lead and pair it to the other field and other brush? Is that > all there is to it? > > > Thanks, > > > Tim > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: <david_horn@...> > > > To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 5:06 PM > > > Subject: [S-Trains] cranky 283 > > > > > > > John, by-passing the rev-unit (e-unit is a Lionel term) is a > great test, but > > > > must be done very carefully. Using the plug-board as > mentioned is > > > > important. Otherwise, assuming your brush posts and field > posts are > > > > isolated, you need four lead wires - - a base lead and 7-15V > lead connected > > > > to the brush posts, and a similar pair assigned to the field > posts. The > > > > idea is AC "flows" through the armature from brush to brush, > while in > > > > parallel from one end of the field to the other. Depending on > the relative > > > > L to R directions of the flow through each, the motor spins in > one > > > > direction, or the other. If you get all that and wire it > accordingly, but > > > > still have no motion, you've likely got a broken field or > armature segment > > > > wire, or a "leak" (partial shorting out due to a weakenin of > the ceramic > > > > insulation) in one or the other. Rewinding should solve > that. > > > > > > > > PS I once bought a basket case 326 with the pulmors on the > front axles. As > > > > a part of getting it 'refreshed' I changed them out to the > rear set. It ran > > > > better, but later I learned it very well could have come from > the factory > > > > with them in the front. > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The information in this message is confidential and is intended > solely for the addressee(s). BEST! Software, Inc. disclaims any > responsibility for the contents of this message, including any > attachments. The views expressed in this message are those of the > sender and do not necessarily reflect the views of the company or any > other employee of the company. If you are not the intended recipient > of this message, please notify BEST! Software, Inc. immediately by > E-mailing Postmaster@... and destroy all copies of this > message. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > -- > > Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) > > and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith > > > > "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool > > than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain > > -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16061	From: Scott Holm	Date: 12/18/2001
Subject: Re: cranky 283

--- Tim Brown <Timboy@...> wrote: > Hi Scott, > Thanks for your input. Are you familiar with the procedure Paul > Yorke outlined in wiring a rectifier between the field and the > armature? Would creating a reverse polarity switch using a DPDT > switch work then? > Thanks, > Tim Yes, the rectifier + and - dc output leads are connected to the field, The input ac leads will have the two leads that were originally attached to the field. The input to the rectifier is also DC and no matter which way the DPDT switch is set, the rectifier will always feed the same polarity to the field, thus creating a "magnet" that never reverses it's polarity. Also needed back at the transformer is another rectifer to create a DC source which goes through the DPDT switch and then to the track. Switching the DPDT switch will reverse the polarity of the DC to the tracks, which will then reverse the polarity of the armature, but not that of the field and you're in business. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16062	From: Don Thompson	Date: 12/18/2001
Subject: Re: SHS rolling stock, and 48721 SF caboose

Dear David, Yes, we are aware of this situation and have informed our builder. They are working on an uncoupler that will work with both our cars and AM's. I will also share some of the responsibility. When we asked AM to produce the heavyweight cars for us in 1991, we did not realize that their coupler pin would have that interesting bend. Once the cars were received we realized that some of the pins hung down too low and actually caused cars to pole vault off of layouts when the lowest edge of the pin snagged a 90° crossing or switch. When we came out with our PS-2s, we instructed our builder to make sure there was adequate clearance between the drop pin and the rail head. Maybe I was a bit too conservative. Don "Horn, David" wrote: > Hey, I love SHS rolling stock including those great looking cars from John > Huster, but how do you get them to work with AF remote uncouplers. More > often than not no matter how fast or slow I run ( or even park) the train > over the uncouplers (5 different ones) those great cars just stay coupled to > each other, but my AF's uncouple perfectly. > > On a separate and unrelated note, does any one know if the AF 48721 SF > "merger" caboose is illuminated or not? Thanks. > The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for > the addressee(s). BEST! Software, Inc. disclaims any responsibility for the > contents of this message, including any attachments. The views expressed in > this message are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect the > views of the company or any other employee of the company. If you are not > the intended recipient of this message, please notify BEST! Software, Inc. > immediately by E-mailing Postmaster@... and destroy all copies > of this message. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16063	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 12/18/2001
Subject: converting to DC (was cranky 283)

Tim: transmission is getting a little garbled here. you need a diode bridge in each loco with field wound motor. You also need another diode bridge with DPDT switch between the transformer and the track. You should be aware that Radio Shack diode bridges are not high quality and will not last forever. Sometimes they explode. One nearly got me in the eyeball once. I usually wear safety goggles when working with them! Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16064	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/18/2001
Subject: Re: cranky 283

Hi Scott, Thanks for your input! Whew! I didn't quite expect this solution. I can kinda follow but I almost have to 'hear you now and believe you later'. I have all the necessary parts, the time and the locomotive. I'm going to put this to the acid test tomorrow (Wednesday). I will let you know how it works. My goal is to remove the reverse unit, keep the original Flyer motor and create a control situation whereby I can change the direction of the loco at will, remotely. Here's what I'm going to do: 1.) Remove the reverse unit (already done) 2.) Wire a rectifier between the field and the armature a la Paul Yorke 3.) Wire a rectifier between the transformer and a DPDT switch per your instructions 4.) Rig a DPDT switch to reverse polarity (Chuck Smith) 5.) Post my success in a clear, concise way to 'the group' so others may learn Thanks again for you help. I can't wait until Wednesday to give this a try. Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Holm" <imsscott@...> To: "s-trains" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 10:27 PM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] cranky 283 > --- Tim Brown <Timboy@...> wrote: > > Hi Scott, > > Thanks for your input. Are you familiar with the procedure Paul > > Yorke outlined in wiring a rectifier between the field and the > > armature? Would creating a reverse polarity switch using a DPDT > > switch work then? > > Thanks, > > Tim > > Yes, the rectifier + and - dc output leads are connected to the field, > The input ac leads will have the two leads that were originally > attached to the field. The input to the rectifier is also DC and no > matter which way the DPDT switch is set, the rectifier will always feed > the same polarity to the field, thus creating a "magnet" that never > reverses it's polarity. Also needed back at the transformer is another > rectifer to create a DC source which goes through the DPDT switch and > then to the track. Switching the DPDT switch will reverse the polarity > of the DC to the tracks, which will then reverse the polarity of the > armature, but not that of the field and you're in business. > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of > your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com > or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16065	From: lawrence Jackman	Date: 12/19/2001
Subject: Re: what gauge ?

49 mm between rails would be 7 foot in O scale at 7mm = a foot david_s_garber wrote: > > was looking at some wind up trains made in Germany. 48mm between > center of rail head, what is this considered? Thanks Dave Garber > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16066	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/19/2001
Subject: LIFTOFF!

Hi All, I was successful in creating my Frankenstein. I wired a full wave rectifier in between the field and armature (I did it from the tender 'cuz there was more room since I removed the reverse unit). I installed a similar rectifier between the transformer and track. Voila! I now have a loco that runs with full remote directional control on DC current. I discovered that you have to go 'full Monty' on this project. You must have both rectifiers installed for this to work. I will draw this up more formally later. For now, the thought has occurred to me that a DC transformer could take the place of the one rectifier to put DC current to the track. Can anyone suggest an inexpensive (Lionel?) 100 watt transformer? I feel like Thomas Edison down in my basement. Nice when that light bulb comes on. More later. Thanks, Tim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16067	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/19/2001
Subject: Night before Christmas

Found this on the Toytrains List, I modified it to get rid of that tiny scale references, enjoy! 'Twas the night before Christmas, and all through my pike, Not a steamer was stirring, not even a Mike. My yard tracks invitingly empty and bare, In hopes that St. Nicholas soon would be there The diesels were nestled all snug in their sheds, While visions of DCC danced in their heads. While I, in my blue-and-white engineer's cap, Had just settled down for a long winter's nap, When down in the train room, there rose such a clatter, I sprang from my bed to see what was the matter. Away to the basement I flew like an ace, Tripped over the cat and fell flat on my face I stifled a curse meant for Chessie (the cat), And I muttered to no one, "I meant to do that," When what to my wondering eyes should appear, But an S-scale sleigh and eight BTS reindeer, With an engineer driving, so lively and quick, I knew in a moment it must be St. Nick. More rapid than GG-1's, onward they came, And he blew a steam whistle and called them by name: "On Flyer! On Lionel, MTH and Walthers! On Kadee and S-Helper, AM and others! To the top of the mountains of Hydrocal plaster, Now dash away, dash away, dash away faster!" As dry leaves that behind a new Genesis fly, When they meet with an obstacle, mount to the sky, So in through the window the coursers they flew With the sleigh full of trains, and St. Nicholas too. And then, on my roundhouse, I saw on the roof The prints in the dust of each S-scale hoof. As I drew a deep breath, and was turning around, From beneath the benchwork, St. Nick came with a bound. He was dressed like an engineer from head to foot, And his clothes had that fine smell of ashes and soot; A bundle of trains he had flung on his back, And he looked like a peddler just opening his pack. His eyes - just like marker lights! Dimples, how merry! His cheeks like a Warbonnet, nose like a cherry! His droll little mouth was drawn up like a bow, And his beard was so white, it would please Phoebe Snow. He puffed on a pipe as he refilled its bowl, And the smoke, it smelled just like bituminous coal. He had a broad face and a belly (I found) That shook like a tank car with wheels out-of-round. He was chubby and plump, and I wanted to shout, "Yes! The man's got a route the UP can't buy out!" A wink of his eye as he passed near the door Soon gave me to know I'd have freight cars galore. He spoke not a word, but went straight to his work. He filled all my yard tracks; then turned with a jerk, And leaving an airbrush he'd found on eBay, And giving a nod, he returned to his sleigh. He pumped up the brakes, blew two blasts on his whistle, And away they all flew like the down of a thistle. But I heard him exclaim, ere he drove out of sight, "HAPPY CHRISTMAS TO ALL! KEEP 'EM ROLLING! GOOD-NIGHT!" Author Unknown

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16068	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 12/19/2001
Subject: uncoupling SHS freight cars

Don and RB: I don't think there's any reason to modify your couplers or take any similar action. I just tried inserting a piece of 1/4" balsa wood in between the blades of a Flyer uncoupler, so that the uncoupler blades could still fall back down all the way. Then rounded and trimmed the balsa flush with the blades. The wood could be painted and glued in place with a slow acting glue that would allow final positioning of the balsa.if desired. It seems to work very well on my 2 SHS cars. THe cost of this modification is less that 25 cents, and it takes about a minute and a half. Try it and see what you think. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16069	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 12/19/2001
Subject: Re: uncoupling SHS freight cars

In a message dated 12/19/01 1:36:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, jarcho@... writes: << I just tried inserting a piece of 1/4" balsa wood in between the blades of a Flyer uncoupler, so that the uncoupler blades could still fall back down all the way. Then rounded and trimmed the balsa flush with the blades. The wood could be painted and glued in place with a slow acting glue that would allow final positioning of the balsa.if desired. It seems to work very well on my 2 SHS cars. >> Good idea. Sounds like a plan. Thanks. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16070	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 12/19/2001
Subject: converting to DC (was cranky 283)

Folks, I have a different method of connecting the bridge rectifier. (When I rewire, I REWIRE!) My wiring: 1. Left field wire to front truck of tender. 2. Right field wire to one of the AC connections on the bridge rectifier. 3. Left brush (armature) to the + connection on the bridge rectifier. 4. Right brush (armature) to the - connection on the bridge rectifier. 5. The other AC connection on the bridge rectifier to the rear truck of the tender. If the loco runs backwards, reverse the two brush (armature) wires at the rectifier. In the original AF one brush of the armature is run directly to a truck, so it is powered at all times. The field is tied to the drum of the reverser so it is the field that changes. All of the discussions here have us replacing the drum of the reverser with a bridge rectifier thus making the field a permanent magnet and, I will add, the field will eventually BECOME a permanent magnet because the flux ALWAYS is applied the same way. This permanent magnet is not good if you ever want to run the loco on AC again. The loco will run sluggish until the AC destroys the magnetism in the field. So I reverse the armature and the field when I rewire. Thus the FIELD is tied directly to a truck and its polarity will reverse when the rail voltage reverses. The ARMATURE is run to the bridge rectifier. Why do I do this? Because the armature will never be magnetized because of the changing polarity as it rotates. The field will not become magnetized because what magnetism it acquires is destroyed every time I reverse direction. This keeps any part of the motor from becoming permanently magnetized so I am always ready to return to AC. And I have done this on occasion. I build all of my own throttles. It is easier to lug an A.C. Gilbert transformer than one of my fancy power packs when showing at my daughter's schools. So when I get done converting back, the ARMATURE is connected to the drum on the reverser, not the FIELD as it came out of the factory. Thorin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16071	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/19/2001
Subject: Re: converting to DC (was cranky 283)

Hi Thorin, Your system sounds great, but it still uses a reverse unit. If my goal is to remove the reverse unit and still have directional control, I submit that the plan to install a rectifier between the field and armature and run on DC track voltage is about the only option. Is there another way without installing a can motor? It's not that I have anything against canned motors, I'm just trying to push the envelope and find another way. Your point about creating a permanent magnet does need to be weighed in making the decision, though. Thanks, Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marty.Thorin" <Thorin.Marty@...> To: "'S-Trains (E-mail)" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 3:55 PM Subject: [S-Trains] converting to DC (was cranky 283) > Folks, > I have a different method of connecting the bridge rectifier. (When > I rewire, I REWIRE!) > > My wiring: > 1. Left field wire to front truck of tender. > 2. Right field wire to one of the AC connections on the bridge > rectifier. > 3. Left brush (armature) to the + connection on the bridge rectifier. > 4. Right brush (armature) to the - connection on the bridge rectifier. > 5. The other AC connection on the bridge rectifier to the rear truck of > the tender. > If the loco runs backwards, reverse the two brush (armature) wires at the > rectifier. > > In the original AF one brush of the armature is run directly to a truck, so > it is powered at all times. The field is tied to the drum of the reverser > so it is the field that changes. > All of the discussions here have us replacing the drum of the > reverser with a bridge rectifier thus making the field a permanent magnet > and, I will add, the field will eventually BECOME a permanent magnet because > the flux ALWAYS is applied the same way. > This permanent magnet is not good if you ever want to run the loco > on AC again. The loco will run sluggish until the AC destroys the magnetism > in the field. > > So I reverse the armature and the field when I rewire. Thus the FIELD is > tied directly to a truck and its polarity will reverse when the rail voltage > reverses. The ARMATURE is run to the bridge rectifier. > Why do I do this? Because the armature will never be magnetized > because of the changing polarity as it rotates. The field will not become > magnetized because what magnetism it acquires is destroyed every time I > reverse direction. This keeps any part of the motor from becoming > permanently magnetized so I am always ready to return to AC. > And I have done this on occasion. I build all of my own throttles. > It is easier to lug an A.C. Gilbert transformer than one of my fancy power > packs when showing at my daughter's schools. So when I get done converting > back, the ARMATURE is connected to the drum on the reverser, not the FIELD > as it came out of the factory. > > Thorin > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16072	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/19/2001
Subject: Re: converting to DC (was cranky 283)

Hi, Did I misunderstand? Are you removing the reverse unit or not? I'm now a little confused. Thanks, Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marty.Thorin" <Thorin.Marty@...> To: "'S-Trains (E-mail)" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 3:55 PM Subject: [S-Trains] converting to DC (was cranky 283) > Folks, > I have a different method of connecting the bridge rectifier. (When > I rewire, I REWIRE!) > > My wiring: > 1. Left field wire to front truck of tender. > 2. Right field wire to one of the AC connections on the bridge > rectifier. > 3. Left brush (armature) to the + connection on the bridge rectifier. > 4. Right brush (armature) to the - connection on the bridge rectifier. > 5. The other AC connection on the bridge rectifier to the rear truck of > the tender. > If the loco runs backwards, reverse the two brush (armature) wires at the > rectifier. > > In the original AF one brush of the armature is run directly to a truck, so > it is powered at all times. The field is tied to the drum of the reverser > so it is the field that changes. > All of the discussions here have us replacing the drum of the > reverser with a bridge rectifier thus making the field a permanent magnet > and, I will add, the field will eventually BECOME a permanent magnet because > the flux ALWAYS is applied the same way. > This permanent magnet is not good if you ever want to run the loco > on AC again. The loco will run sluggish until the AC destroys the magnetism > in the field. > > So I reverse the armature and the field when I rewire. Thus the FIELD is > tied directly to a truck and its polarity will reverse when the rail voltage > reverses. The ARMATURE is run to the bridge rectifier. > Why do I do this? Because the armature will never be magnetized > because of the changing polarity as it rotates. The field will not become > magnetized because what magnetism it acquires is destroyed every time I > reverse direction. This keeps any part of the motor from becoming > permanently magnetized so I am always ready to return to AC. > And I have done this on occasion. I build all of my own throttles. > It is easier to lug an A.C. Gilbert transformer than one of my fancy power > packs when showing at my daughter's schools. So when I get done converting > back, the ARMATURE is connected to the drum on the reverser, not the FIELD > as it came out of the factory. > > Thorin > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16073	From: Horn, David	Date: 12/19/2001
Subject: Re: cranky 283

Tim, do let us know how it works and a concise summary would then be appreciated. On a similar note, for the SnS motors to have impressed TJ that much is saying something. TJ, when you say you bought the AC version, does that mean you install it in place of the original open frame ACG motor, but can (no pun intended) still use AC transformers for power and the original reverse unit, if not, what then instead? Thanks. PS On the one hand, all this AC to DC and can motor dialogue has me glad I'm so far sticking to ACG original or LTI/AM/SHS AC RTR, on the other hand, it sure is facinating and might be fun someday to tinker with. The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for the addressee(s). BEST! Software, Inc. disclaims any responsibility for the contents of this message, including any attachments. The views expressed in this message are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect the views of the company or any other employee of the company. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, please notify BEST! Software, Inc. immediately by E-mailing Postmaster@... and destroy all copies of this message.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16074	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/19/2001
Subject: Re: LIFTOFF!

My favorite source of power for a DC Flyer engine is still the AF transformer with a rectifier. 75 watts is plenty for one train- that delivers up to 4-5 amps DC. You can't beat the price and rugged simplicity. DC power packs made for HO are a usually low on amperage for converted to DC Flyer engines. If you run any DC can motors this transformer will not throttle them down to a full stop because it starts off a about 7 volts. A solution to this is to switch your output from the full wave rectifier to a single diode when running can motors. This will allow most can motors to stop or virtually stop at the lowest voltage. Tim Brown wrote: > > Hi All, > > I was successful in creating my Frankenstein. I wired a full wave rectifier in between the field and armature (I did it from the tender 'cuz there was more room since I removed the reverse unit). I installed a similar rectifier between the transformer and track. Voila! I now have a loco that runs with full remote directional control on DC current. I discovered that you have to go 'full Monty' on this project. You must have both rectifiers installed for this to work. > I will draw this up more formally later. For now, the thought has occurred to me that a DC transformer could take the place of the one rectifier to put DC current to the track. Can anyone suggest an inexpensive (Lionel?) 100 watt transformer? > I feel like Thomas Edison down in my basement. Nice when that light bulb comes on. More later. > > Thanks, > Tim > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16075	From: TED R LARSON	Date: 12/19/2001
Subject: Re: Detail Parts

THANKS for the switch detail parts info! Ted Larson > > Hi Ted, is the article from 3/16th S Scale Railroading? I > searched through my magazines and found such an article in Volume > 3, number 3, the Feb./March 1992 issue. Hope this helps. > Mike Sulzbach On Sat, 15 Dec 2001 00:35:21 -0000 "mikeschessie" <mikeschessie@ > --- In S-Scale@y..., TED R LARSON <mhrreast@j...> wrote: > > Several years ago I read (in the Dispatch?) about a detail kit > available > > for adding the visual bolts, bars, braces, etc to frogs and > points. Does anybody know about that? Is it still available? Where? > > > > Ted Larson > ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16076	From: Donald P. Abrams	Date: 12/19/2001
Subject: Subject: Re: cranky 283

I recently converted seven steam locos using the diagram on Paul's website. I believe it's the same as the one in Tom Barker's book. I put the 4 Amp bridge between the jack panel and the motor. Since the engine/tender wire harnesses were bad I just ran new wires from the tender truck to the jack panel leaving two posts empty. This also made it easy on the loco side to run wires directly to the smoke unit so it would receive full track voltage. One of the bridge rectifier leads is soldered directly to the loco side of the jack panel. The two outputs of the bridge, positive and negative, connect to the field. It doesn't matter which field lead goes to the positive or negative. What this does is assures that the field never changes polarity! Only the armature does so that when changing the DC track polarity the motor runs in the opposite direction. I used a 6 Amp bridge on a 12B transformer to test the locos. I just formed the AC inputs so they'd be secured to the transformer posts and reformed the positive and negative leads straight out and used EZ hooks to make the connections to the track. The train's owner will do a DPDT switch, but eventually buy a DC power pack. I suppose a purist could keep the original tender/loco wiring by unsoldering the three leads from the reverse unit, tape two off and splice the wire from the rear truck to the fourth wire in the harness. The harness would then look 'original', but only two wires would be used. Please note that the days of AC operation of this loco are over. If you still want AC on the track then you keep the reverse unit and that changes the wiring schematic. The converted locos have much better speed control. One even had the dreaded 'syndrome' and ran noticeably better forward after conversion. I later resurfaced the commutator just for the sake of brush longevity. Don

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16077	From: Charlie&Edith	Date: 12/19/2001
Subject: What the heck is it?

"What the heck is it?", the partial - prewar yellow hopper pictured on last weeks list, needs a home. If anyone can help, please contact me off-list and we will arrange an adoption. Thanks for the help with identification and best wishes to all! Charlie

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16078	From: JFrederick Roberts	Date: 12/19/2001
Subject: Re-Mount a sinterated sideframe

Christmas layout woes. For a Christmas layout I set up a 6 panel A.A. set and had that going powered by a 303. Then the right front sideframe came off the tender. True, I can line up the axels and slide the frame back on the tab, looks great but won't stay on for more than twenty times around the loop. Is ther a way to fix this without taking the truck off of the tender? True, I can run my 302 for now. The 302 doesn't smoke as well and I can't find my funnel for filling it but it runs and had been converted to KC anyhow (link doesn't take PM curces). The 302 smokes well at full throtle, but wouldn't stay on the track at that speed, guess I should give the smoke unit a direct wire. But that doesn't fix the 303. Any ideas? Or must I take the truck off to fix it? --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctionsfor all of your holiday gifts! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16079	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/19/2001
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: cranky 283

Hi Don, This is exactly what I've been working on. I have had encouraging results but need to repeat the process with another loco as I believe I have a seperate mechanical problem with the first loco that has skewed the results. I wired the rectifier the same as you except I kept it in the tender and ran the wires up to the loco through a black shrink wrap tube. I took off the jack panel and dummied one up by cutting a piece of circuit board to the same shape and screwing it on the back of the loco. At least it covers the space and hides some of the motor. I used a project box from the Shack to hide the rectifier between the transformer and track. I then cross-wired a DPDT switch and screwed it down to the top of the project box. Now I have DC current supplied to the track and can change the direction of the DC converted loco by throwing the knife switch. Doesn't seem to have any adverse effect on my accessories 'cuz they are powered from the other fixed post of the same transformer. The base post seems not to mind receiving both AC and DC current. Thorin has pointed out that this process makes the open frame field a permanent magnet and pretty much ends it's functionality as an electromagnet. I guess we better be pretty sure this is what we want to do before we do the conversion. I think I'll do it on some of my 'minor' locos first - an Atlantic, a 290 Pacific and a 287. I don't figure on doing this to any loco that is running perfectly right now. If it ain't broken, don't fix it, right? Since I operate two loops that don't connect, I can keep the DC converted locos for one loop, and all the AC locos on the other, for now. Makes me happy. Regards, Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donald P. Abrams" <donabrams@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 10:41 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Subject: Re: cranky 283 > > I recently converted seven steam locos using the diagram on Paul's website. > I believe it's the same as the one in Tom Barker's book. > I put the 4 Amp bridge between the jack panel and the motor. Since the > engine/tender wire harnesses were bad I just ran new wires from the tender > truck to the jack panel leaving two posts empty. This also made it easy on > the loco side to run wires directly to the smoke unit so it would receive > full track voltage. One of the bridge rectifier leads is soldered directly > to the loco side of the jack panel. The two outputs of the bridge, positive > and negative, connect to the field. It doesn't matter which field lead goes > to the positive or negative. What this does is assures that the field never > changes polarity! Only the armature does so that when changing the DC track > polarity the motor runs in the opposite direction. I used a 6 Amp bridge on > a 12B transformer to test the locos. I just formed the AC inputs so they'd > be secured to the transformer posts and reformed the positive and negative > leads straight out and used EZ hooks to make the connections to the track. > The train's owner will do a DPDT switch, but eventually buy a DC power pack. > I suppose a purist could keep the original tender/loco wiring by unsoldering > the three leads from the reverse unit, tape two off and splice the wire from > the rear truck to the fourth wire in the harness. The harness would then > look 'original', but only two wires would be used. > Please note that the days of AC operation of this loco are over. If you > still want AC on the track then you keep the reverse unit and that changes > the wiring schematic. > The converted locos have much better speed control. One even had the dreaded > 'syndrome' and ran noticeably better forward after conversion. I later > resurfaced the commutator just for the sake of brush longevity. > > Don > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16080	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 12/19/2001
Subject: shoelaces (283)

TIm and others: I assume there is going to be a rash of conversions. This is sad, because with a little trouble reverse units will work OK. But I can understand it -- those little buggers can drive a saint nuts., Here's my point. If you're running new wires between engine and tender: 1. try to use super flexible wire (Lionel dealers sell it). 2. You can put the wires inside shoe laces to make a harness. Yes -- shoe laces! Those old fashioned Buster Brown type shoe laces are actually hollow fabric tubes! A child's size shoe lace generally works best. And of course you have the choice of brown or black. Frank Zappa, may he rest in peace, would have chosen black. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16081	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/19/2001
Subject: Re: Re-Mount a sinterated sideframe

My favorite solution, because it uses AF parts, is hard to see and fixes the problem: is to first remove the tender body, rotate the truck so the sideframe area is clear of the chassis. You now install the sideframe and drill a hole through the sheetmetal into the sideframe (from the top, hole should be in the middle of the "tab" on top of the sideframe. I wish I could remember what size hole! It should be the diameter of a body shell pin, as that's what I push into the hole to hold the sideframe tight to the sheet metal part. You do have to re-drill the sheet metal part slightly larger, so the pin just drops through without binding. So far this fix has worked on dozens of trucks. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16082	From: Bente Velapoldi	Date: 12/20/2001
Subject: Re: LIFTOFF!

Chuck: This sounds interesting; would you show some kind of wiring diagram with appropriate words to us uninitiates? Is there some effect on the single diode and how does this compare with the supplied rectifier supplied by SnS with the can motor for AC operation? Thanks in advance. Rance Velapoldi Chuck Smith wrote: > My favorite source of power for a DC Flyer engine is still the AF > transformer with a rectifier. 75 watts is plenty for one train- that > delivers up to 4-5 amps DC. You can't beat the price and rugged > simplicity. DC power packs made for HO are a usually low on amperage > for converted to DC Flyer engines. > > If you run any DC can motors this transformer will not throttle them > down to a full stop because it starts off a about 7 volts. A solution > to this is to switch your output from the full wave rectifier to a > single diode when running can motors. This will allow most can motors > to stop or virtually stop at the lowest voltage.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16083	From: Don Thompson	Date: 12/20/2001
Subject: Re: LIFTOFF!

Dear Chuck, They had me buy a costly clean DC power source for my DCC set up a few years ago. I got just as good results from my AF transformers and now use them at shows. Don Bente Velapoldi wrote: > Chuck: > This sounds interesting; would you show some kind of wiring diagram with appropriate words to us uninitiates? Is there some effect on the single diode and how does this compare with the supplied rectifier supplied by SnS with the can motor for AC operation? > Thanks in advance. > Rance Velapoldi > > Chuck Smith wrote: > > > My favorite source of power for a DC Flyer engine is still the AF > > transformer with a rectifier. 75 watts is plenty for one train- that > > delivers up to 4-5 amps DC. You can't beat the price and rugged > > simplicity. DC power packs made for HO are a usually low on amperage > > for converted to DC Flyer engines. > > > > If you run any DC can motors this transformer will not throttle them > > down to a full stop because it starts off a about 7 volts. A solution > > to this is to switch your output from the full wave rectifier to a > > single diode when running can motors. This will allow most can motors > > to stop or virtually stop at the lowest voltage. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16084	From: THOMAS E HILLERY	Date: 12/20/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1249

Re: shoelaces I had to slap my forehead when I read TJ's shoelace fabric wire harness idea .. so simply , so great and right in front in plain sight. I love this stuff--Tom Hillery

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16085	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 12/20/2001
Subject: Re: Re-Mount a sinterated sideframe

Dear Frederick: I have a fast, easy solution that works for me every time. I use good ol' fashion 5 minute epoxy from the hardware store. I put the truck (still on the car) on the workbench, arranged how I want the truck to be. (The truck is complete with wheelsets and all.) I mix a small batch of epoxy and then slather it onto the back of the loose sideframe and metal frame, making sure it can not be seen from the outside. The next day the car runs like gold. I have used this fix on both AF and Flyonel. I have never had it fail. The epoxy does not alter the original pieces. I can cut the epoxy out later with an Exacto, should I need to remove it. You have to be more careful with tender trucks and other power trucks. Epoxy is an excellent insulator! Remember, PC cards (printed circuit) consist of epoxy coated with copper. For these trucks I clamp the truck before adding the epoxy to be sure metal touches metal to continue conducting power. (The steel AF axles conduct power to BOTH sideframes. So if one side is insulated by the epoxy, the other will conduct.) Good luck and Happy Holidays! Thorin Message: 14 Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 20:12:54 -0800 (PST) From: JFrederick Roberts <jfred436@...> Subject: Re-Mount a sinterated sideframe Christmas layout woes. For a Christmas layout I set up a 6 panel A.A. set and had that going powered by a 303. Then the right front sideframe came off the tender. True, I can line up the axels and slide the frame back on the tab, looks great but won't stay on for more than twenty times around the loop. Is ther a way to fix this without taking the truck off of the tender? True, I can run my 302 for now. The 302 doesn't smoke as well and I can't find my funnel for filling it but it runs and had been converted to KC anyhow (link doesn't take PM curces). The 302 smokes well at full throtle, but wouldn't stay on the track at that speed, guess I should give the smoke unit a direct wire. But that doesn't fix the 303. Any ideas? Or must I take the truck off to fix it? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16086	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 12/20/2001
Subject: (no subject)

Dear Tim: I use DC to run my trains. I have been converting my AF from AC (with reverser) to DC (with bridge) since 1976. (AC locomotives run fine on DC so the low use locomotives stay AC.) After I remove all of the wires from the reversing unit, I leave it in the tender or diesel. Why? It adds weight. (It is also with the locomotive should I need it later.) Here are my DC wiring instructions to not magnetize the field: 1. Left field wire to front truck of tender. 2. Right field wire to one of the AC connections on the bridge rectifier. 3. Left brush (armature) to the + connection on the bridge rectifier. 4. Right brush (armature) to the - connection on the bridge rectifier. 5. The other AC connection on the bridge rectifier to the rear truck of the tender. If the loco runs backwards, reverse the two brush (armature) wires at the rectifier. As you can see from reading this, none of these wires go to the old reverser. Happy converting! Thorin Message: 7 Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 17:44:42 -0500 From: "Tim Brown" <Timboy@...> Subject: Re: converting to DC (was cranky 283) Hi Thorin, Your system sounds great, but it still uses a reverse unit. If my goal is to remove the reverse unit and still have directional control, I submit that the plan to install a rectifier between the field and armature and run on DC track voltage is about the only option. Is there another way without installing a can motor? It's not that I have anything against canned motors, I'm just trying to push the envelope and find another way. Your point about creating a permanent magnet does need to be weighed in making the decision, though. Thanks, Tim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16087	From: Horn, David	Date: 12/20/2001
Subject: Re: sideframe repair

David D's method sure sounds robust and made to last for a looong time. If you need a quicker fix, try this. Clean the sideframe and truck sheet metal with 90% alcohol, make certain they still interface well and align (tabs aren't bent or other problems in case the tender took a fall), then put in the axles position the sideframe on the truck and from the backside of the sideframe apply some Magnum Future Glue with a toothpick. Not a lot, but enough that if it creates a little fillet that's OK. Allow it to dry (20 minutes is plenty) and off you go. I've done this on Hudson, Atlantic, and Pacific tenders and none have failed so far. PS While you have the axles out, take the opportunity to clean out the axle holes in both sideframes with a reduced (i.e. pull about half the cotton off) Q-tip swab and alcohol. You'd be surprised the gook that sometimes builds up in those, and how nicely they roll again after getting cleaned, and then lightly oiled after assembly and repairs are completed. The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for the addressee(s). BEST! Software, Inc. disclaims any responsibility for the contents of this message, including any attachments. The views expressed in this message are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect the views of the company or any other employee of the company. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, please notify BEST! Software, Inc. immediately by E-mailing Postmaster@... and destroy all copies of this message.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16088	From: Scott Holm	Date: 12/20/2001
Subject: Re: converting to DC (was cranky 283)

--- "Marty.Thorin" <Thorin.Marty@...> wrote: > All of the discussions here have us replacing the drum of the > reverser with a bridge rectifier thus making the field a permanent > magnet and, I will add, the field will eventually BECOME a permanent > magnet because the flux ALWAYS is applied the same way. Hey! Does it become enough of a magnet that it could be used without being powered? After training, could the rectifier and the wires connected to it be done away with? Maybe we could even use this technique to restore old weakened DC magnets? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16089	From: Scott Holm	Date: 12/20/2001
Subject: Re: can motor conversion

--- jarcho@... wrote: > I would like to tell you folks that the S 'n S > can motor conversion is FABULOUS. What does it do in a deadened section of track that's using a lock eliminator? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16090	From: Scott Holm	Date: 12/20/2001
Subject: Re: Re-Mount a sinterated sideframe

--- David Dewey <djdewey@...> wrote: > My favorite solution, is to first remove the tender body, rotate the > truck so the sideframe area is clear of the chassis. You now install > the sideframe and drill a hole through the sheetmetal into the > sideframe (from the top,)... I looked at my 303 and don't see how, even after removing the shell and rotating the truck, you can get clearance to drill a hole from the top? I thought this too was the reason why they couldn't be fixed by peaning the sheet metal tab flat unless the truck was removed from the chassis. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16091	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/20/2001
Subject: Re: Re-Mount a sinterated sideframe

Well, Scott made me dig out a project loco and look, since I *know* I've done this. On this chassis there are holes at each end (one is for a riveted drawbar, not used on a 303, etc., If you rotate the truck 90 degrees, these holes are in a perfect position to run the drill through. The front hole is big enough to drop the rivet through too, but the back hole isn't, I believe, so you have to use needlenose pliers to get it in the hole, and then a THIN punch that will fit through the hole (unless you drill the hole bigger, which won't hurt anything except originality). Is this clear as mud??? BTW, This repair is one I started using many years ago. At that time, I wasn't having any luck with glues to hold them on. I imagine the modern stuff might work, as some have suggested, and used. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16092	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 12/20/2001
Subject: Re: can motor conversion

David: the contacts of an AF reverse unit ARE a DPDT switch. Think about it. The inputs are the upper right and lower fingers (let's call them A and B). The outputs are the upper left and lower right contacts (call them C and D). So" Top: CA Bottom BD. Usually,in forward direction, the reverse unit connects A to D and B to C. In reverse direction, the unit connects A to C and B to D. The contacts of the 5 digit 2 step reverse unit are also a DPDT switch. In Gilbert locos., the reverse unit's DPDT capability is used to reverse the direction of the current through the field in relation to the brushes, or the direction of the current through the brushes in relation to the field. Either of these will reverse the direction the motor runs. Since the conversion motor is a can motor, no rectifier is required inside the loco as would be necessary with a field wound Gilbert motor. The reverse unit merely reverses the polarity of the DC output of the rectifier bridge to the can motor. This is exactly the same thing a DPDT switch at the transformer would do, if you were operating with DC track power. So to sum up, the combination of a reverse unit and a diode bridge allows a loco with a DC can motor to be operated on AC track power, and reverse sequentiially, just the way a Gilbert loco does. I wrote about this in the Sept-Oct '96 S Gaugian Roundhouse Tom Jarcho.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16093	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/20/2001
Subject: Converting AC Flyer Locos to DC with directional control

Hi Thorin and all, I get it. Bravo! Holding the field polarity constant in the armature and reversing it in the field is the perfect solution. I went downstairs and tried your wiring system. It went very smoothly and I now have a #290 loco converted to DC with no fear of turning the field into a permanent magnet. I used Tom Jarco's shoestring method of cabling the wires from the tender to the loco. I didn't have a male jack panel, so I cobbled one up by cutting it out of circuit board and drilling a couple holes through it for the wire. After I put the wires through the male panel, I stripped the ends of the wires off, doubled them over and built up a male end with solder. They plugged into the female jack panel perfectly. [Tom - in true Frank Zappa's non-conformist style, I used a dark maroon colored shoelace.] One little caveat: a DC converted loco will not run on AC track current. In regards to converting an AC transformer to DC: I don't know if I mentioned this previously, but I used a Radio Shack project box to house the rectifier and mounted a cross-wired DPDT switch to the top of the box. Then I took AC leads from the transformer to the rectifier in the box, DC leads out of the box to the DPDT switch and finally, DC leads out from the DPDT switch to the track. Another caveat here to all those wishing to duplicate this procedure: when using a rectifier, you must know which leads are AC and which are DC. If you don't, you can short out your transformer and maybe even start a fire. If in doubt, test the rectifier with a multitester first to determine which leads are AC and which leads are DC. Does anyone out there in Flyer-land have a better way or any refinements to the above process? Thanks to all, Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: Marty.Thorin To: 'Tim Brown' ; 'S-Trains (E-mail) Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 9:41 AM Dear Tim: I use DC to run my trains. I have been converting my AF from AC (with reverser) to DC (with bridge) since 1976. (AC locomotives run fine on DC so the low use locomotives stay AC.) After I remove all of the wires from the reversing unit, I leave it in the tender or diesel. Why? It adds weight. (It is also with the locomotive should I need it later.) Here are my DC wiring instructions to not magnetize the field: 1. Left field wire to front truck of tender. 2. Right field wire to one of the AC connections on the bridge rectifier. 3. Left brush (armature) to the + connection on the bridge rectifier. 4. Right brush (armature) to the - connection on the bridge rectifier. 5. The other AC connection on the bridge rectifier to the rear truck of the tender. If the loco runs backwards, reverse the two brush (armature) wires at the rectifier. As you can see from reading this, none of these wires go to the old reverser. Happy converting! Thorin Message: 7 Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 17:44:42 -0500 From: "Tim Brown" <Timboy@...> Subject: Re: converting to DC (was cranky 283) Hi Thorin, Your system sounds great, but it still uses a reverse unit. If my goal is to remove the reverse unit and still have directional control, I submit that the plan to install a rectifier between the field and armature and run on DC track voltage is about the only option. Is there another way without installing a can motor? It's not that I have anything against canned motors, I'm just trying to push the envelope and find another way. Your point about creating a permanent magnet does need to be weighed in making the decision, though. Thanks, Tim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16094	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/20/2001
Subject: Re: converting to DC (was cranky 283)

Hi Scott, Just a guess here, but I doubt it. I just don't think the field would become magnetized to that extent. What do some of you guys think? Thanks, Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Holm" <imsscott@...> To: "s-trains" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 10:17 AM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] converting to DC (was cranky 283) > --- "Marty.Thorin" <Thorin.Marty@...> wrote: > > > All of the discussions here have us replacing the drum of the > > reverser with a bridge rectifier thus making the field a permanent > > magnet and, I will add, the field will eventually BECOME a permanent > > magnet because the flux ALWAYS is applied the same way. > > Hey! Does it become enough of a magnet that it could be used without > being powered? After training, could the rectifier and the wires > connected to it be done away with? > > Maybe we could even use this technique to restore old weakened DC magnets? > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of > your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com > or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16095	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 12/20/2001
Subject: Polarity reversing

- Greeting`S' - The on-going discussion of merits vs de-merits of converting AF locos to DC operation with polarity reversing as been interesting. Hope I do not add mud to the waters, here. First, the bridge rectifier is happier with the ' + " and " - " terminals connected to the field. There is no back EMF generated in the field - only in the armature. Therefore the total voltage across the rectifier will be only the resistive drop due to field resistance, not a larger voltage consisting of armature plus brush resistive drops plus the back EMF added in. Second, I usually make such a conversion to locos which may have been basket cases. Or to an Atlantic with the DPDT switch under the cab roof. Third, the sheet steel used in motors and transformers (called electrical steel by Armco, J & L, Crucible, U. S. Steel, and other great names that belong on some of our cars) has little retentivity. This means little ability to retain magnetism once the current goes to zero. Consider the B-H loop of steel. | B ^ | *** | * * | * * |* * ---------------*|*-------------- * *| H > * * | * * | *** | | Set your e-mail reader to plain text to get the spacings correct. Start at the center, move one space to the right, and follow the slanted line upward and to the right. This happens in the steel when the field coil has a positive rising current which provides the energy for magnetization. At the top right, the steel goes into saturation. Do not increase the current further. That action will yield no increease in magnetic flux density B, it will only heat the winding. Now the current diminishes by virtue of the applied voltage. The magnetization path is to the left and takes the left-hand slanted line downward. Notice where the path crosses the vertical line. the value of H at that point and the value of current at that point are zero. The little bit of B that remains is due to reten- tivity. What about the space between the right-hand upward to the right line and the left-hand downward tot he left line. This is due to hysteresis in the steel. It takes energy to go around the path and this energy heats the steel itself. A good electrical steel will have the upward and downward paths close together. [Remember to go around the path CCW.] This means little loss and little retentivity. For the record, the highest poossible retentivity is desired for a permanent magnet. Reverser-equipped locos on my layout run fine on DC. If the reverser unit armature sticks up against the coil after serious degreasing and careful lubing with graphite, I put a dot of sticky paper or tape (not Scotch-like tape - it turns gooey) on the armature where it hits the pole piece of the magnet. This miniscule air-gap greatly lowers the retained flux and that result helps the reverser drop when the voltage is turned off. More than you ever wanted to know? Cheer`S' and Merry Christmas Rhett

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16096	From: Robichaud, Thomas Jr (Thomas)	Date: 12/20/2001
Subject: AM SD60 DCC ready

Yo: My train pusher was over the house last night for an operating session and he brought with him my American Models SD60 (CSX) duel set that I had on order. Well before I could start the operating session I had to take it out of the box and check it out. One of the 2 units I pulled out of the box had a broken grab rail (easily fixed) but other than that they came in tack. After looking it over and passing it around we put it aside and did our operating session. Later after the session I was real interested in the "DCC Ready" aspect. So, I took one apart. Struggled a bit taking it apart but I finally figured it out. Once open I found that there was a NMRA plug (with a board plugged into it, a shorting plug). Looked through my inventory and found a LE135, pulled out the shorting plug, plugged in the LE135, put the shell back on, placed it on the programming track, read address = 03, knew it was ready so I flip the switch from programming to operating, fired it up and off it went. It ran nice and smooth. It has a front headlight (bright blue tint LED) but no reverse light, which can be easily modified. It's nice to see that now American Models recognizes that many of us use DCC and are willing to do a little extra to make the transition from DC to DCC easier. First it was S-Helper Service and now American Models. Thanks guys! I haven't done any real measurements on the draw current yet, my guess is that the LE135 is overkill. Anyone else had any experience with the new SD60s? Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16097	From: Doug Peck	Date: 12/20/2001
Subject: Re: wire

<<If you're running new wires between engine and tender: 1. try to use super flexible wire (Lionel dealers sell it).>> So do some AF parts dealers, Tom!!!!!! Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supplies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Weekday evenings: 7 PM - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free; Orders only, please). http://www.portlines.com portlines@... VISA --MC--DISCOVER--AMEX--PAYPAL Accepted. NEW ! View our entire AF Parts Catalog On-Line !!!!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16098	From: gino restivo	Date: 12/20/2001
Subject: re , wire / shoestrings ?

parts dealer's also have 6" and 12" wire harness ( covered ) male and female cab jack panels a few $ 100 K of other parts too ...... Merry Christmas to all , gino [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16099	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/20/2001
Subject: Re: LIFTOFF!

My son's scanner is on the fritz and I don't have one so will try to describe. The single diode creates a half wave rectified DC. Passes only every other cycle from the AC input. The way to wire it is to have a selector switch in your control box that switches between full wave and 1/2 wave DC. This can be done by powering both the full wave (bridge) rectifier and diode from the transformer terminals. Both output wires from the bridge rectifier put out the full wave DC. The single diode is in either leg of the transformer output, the other wire from the transformer is plain. The output of these two wires is 1/2 wave rectified. Now install another dpdt switch beyween the full wave and half wave rectifiers so you can select either as the the input at the switch end terminals. The output, from the center of that DPDT, switch now feeds the DPDT switch you use for reversing. One switch selects full or 1/2 wave, the other reverses the polarity. Bente Velapoldi wrote: > > Chuck: > This sounds interesting; would you show some kind of wiring diagram with appropriate words to us uninitiates? Is there some effect on the single diode and how does this compare with the supplied rectifier supplied by SnS with the can motor for AC operation? > Thanks in advance. > Rance Velapoldi > > Chuck Smith wrote: > > > My favorite source of power for a DC Flyer engine is still the AF > > transformer with a rectifier. 75 watts is plenty for one train- that > > delivers up to 4-5 amps DC. You can't beat the price and rugged > > simplicity. DC power packs made for HO are a usually low on amperage > > for converted to DC Flyer engines. > > > > If you run any DC can motors this transformer will not throttle them > > down to a full stop because it starts off a about 7 volts. A solution > > to this is to switch your output from the full wave rectifier to a > > single diode when running can motors. This will allow most can motors > > to stop or virtually stop at the lowest voltage. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16100	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/20/2001
Subject: Re: LIFTOFF!

If you wanr "clean" DC merely hang a large (I recall 2000mfd recommended) capacitor on your supply output and the ripples are pretty well gone. You will also see a slightly higher top speed. Don Thompson wrote: > > Dear Chuck, > They had me buy a costly clean DC power source for my DCC set up a few years ago. I got just as good results from my AF transformers and now use them at shows. > Don > > Bente Velapoldi wrote: > > > Chuck: > > This sounds interesting; would you show some kind of wiring diagram with appropriate words to us uninitiates? Is there some effect on the single diode and how does this compare with the supplied rectifier supplied by SnS with the can motor for AC operation? > > Thanks in advance. > > Rance Velapoldi > > > > Chuck Smith wrote: > > > > > My favorite source of power for a DC Flyer engine is still the AF > > > transformer with a rectifier. 75 watts is plenty for one train- that > > > delivers up to 4-5 amps DC. You can't beat the price and rugged > > > simplicity. DC power packs made for HO are a usually low on amperage > > > for converted to DC Flyer engines. > > > > > > If you run any DC can motors this transformer will not throttle them > > > down to a full stop because it starts off a about 7 volts. A solution > > > to this is to switch your output from the full wave rectifier to a > > > single diode when running can motors. This will allow most can motors > > > to stop or virtually stop at the lowest voltage. > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > -- -- Don Thompson > S Helper Service Inc. > http://www.showcaseline.com > 1.800.465.0303 > New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping! > http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16101	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/20/2001
Subject: Re: converting to DC (was cranky 283)

Real DC motors use powerful permag material. I don't think the cheap steel in the field will hold anywhere near that kind of field. I'd have to see a motor running on DC without power to the field to believe it/=. Tim Brown wrote: > > Hi Scott, > > Just a guess here, but I doubt it. I just don't think the field would become magnetized to that extent. What do some of you guys think? > > Thanks, > Tim > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Scott Holm" <imsscott@...> > To: "s-trains" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 10:17 AM > Subject: Re: [S-Trains] converting to DC (was cranky 283) > > > --- "Marty.Thorin" <Thorin.Marty@...> wrote: > > > > > All of the discussions here have us replacing the drum of the > > > reverser with a bridge rectifier thus making the field a permanent > > > magnet and, I will add, the field will eventually BECOME a permanent > > > magnet because the flux ALWAYS is applied the same way. > > > > Hey! Does it become enough of a magnet that it could be used without > > being powered? After training, could the rectifier and the wires > > connected to it be done away with? > > > > Maybe we could even use this technique to restore old weakened DC magnets? > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of > > your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com > > or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16102	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 12/20/2001
Subject: Re: LIFTOFF!

Tim Brown reveals: >I wired a full wave rectifier in between the field and armature (I did it from the tender >'cuz there was more room since I removed the reverse unit). I installed a similar >rectifier between the transformer and track. Voila! I now have a loco that runs with full >remote directional control on DC current. Tim: I am glad you solved your problem, but your solution troubles me. In wiring your locomotive with a full wave bridge rectifier, you provided DC power to the motor from AC track power. In wiring the track with a full wave bridge rectifier, you provided DC power to the AC input leads of the on-board rectifier, which has nothing to rectify since it is in a DC system. Wiring a DC rectifier between the field and armature is certainly an interesting idea but the redundancy of your wiring plan may eventually damage one or both rectifiers and possibly play havoc with the universal motor. I would like to know the operational theory including the need for dual rectifiers. How do you achieve reversing? Thanks, Chris Zizzo Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16103	From: Jay	Date: 12/20/2001
Subject: Wire size

Hi all, Just a quick little question; for wiring up my ne layout. What size wire is used? Can I use wire for Lionel as there is a Lionel dealer nearby? Thanks Jay -- Jay _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16104	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/20/2001
Subject: Re: Wire size

Jay, Just be sure and remove all the Li#@@L markings before you bring them home, or your trains may revolt! S' David D. PS I suspect you can get a better buy at radio shack, although much of their stuff is "radio Sh**" I don't think they can screw up wire too bad. Also automotive places carry wire in 14, 16, 18 and some even 22 gauge.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16105	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 12/20/2001
Subject: wire size

I use 16 gauge speaker wirre from Radio Shack. No power loss over a 15 to 20 ft. distance. Other guys have their own favorite wire. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16106	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/20/2001
Subject: Re: LIFTOFF!

Hi Chris, I know it does sound, what - redundant at best to run DC current into a rectifier. The idea is that the motor field needs a constant polarity. While it is true that the rectifier in the loco has nothing to do if there is already DC current, it's job becomes that of always supplying a constant polarity via it's '+' and '-' terminals. When the DC track polarity is reversed, the polarity to the armature reverses and we have motor rotation in the opposite direction. There was some speculation that we would be permanently magnetizing the open frame field using this technique and would render subsequent deconversion back to AC problematic.* However, there is also a strong argument that the steel used in the electromagnet has a high resistance to permanent polarization.** Now, what - if anything - will result from two rectifiers working? Well, one rectifier doesn't 'know' the other exists. All the rectifier in the loco 'knows' is that it is getting DC current and putting out DC current. I don't know if there is any way we could measure wear and tear on this rectifier. I have felt it after operation, and it isn't hot which leads me to believe the only resistance is that of it's own material - a very unscientific observation. There also is an argument that splicing the loco rectifier into the armature does indeed generate added resistance and could be a hazard.** As for reversing the loco: I wired the rectifier from the transformer to a cross-wired DPDT switch, then out to the track. Throwing this switch reverses polarity with the result as I have described above. Okay. I'm not an engineer and don't know the physics behind all this. I've pulled this together in the past week from our postings and my own experimentation with an old #290. Actually, I consider this a last resort effort to get that old 290 to run any way I can and an interesting experiment. I advocate keeping Flyer stock in as pristine condition as possible, fine tuning the reverse unit so it will reverse well even on DC current. I hope this helps clarify the procedure. Clearly, more experimentation, observation and measurement is needed. Lets keep 'em rolling, Tim Please refer to the following postings: *Marty Thorin 12/19/01 'converting to DC (was cranky 283)' **Rhett T. George 12/20/01 'Polarity reversing' ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Zizzo" <Busyboy@...> To: "Tim Brown" <Timboy@...> Cc: "slist" <s-trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 10:23 PM Subject: re: LIFTOFF! > Tim Brown reveals: > >I wired a full wave rectifier in between the field and armature (I did it > from the tender >'cuz there was more room since I removed the reverse unit). > I installed a similar >rectifier between the transformer and track. Voila! > I now have a loco that runs with full >remote directional control on DC > current. > > Tim: > I am glad you solved your problem, but your solution troubles me. > > In wiring your locomotive with a full wave bridge rectifier, you provided DC > power to the motor from AC track power. In wiring the track with a full > wave bridge rectifier, you provided DC power to the AC input leads of the > on-board rectifier, which has nothing to rectify since it is in a DC system. > > Wiring a DC rectifier between the field and armature is certainly an > interesting idea but the redundancy of your wiring plan may eventually > damage one or both rectifiers and possibly play havoc with the universal > motor. I would like to know the operational theory including the need for > dual rectifiers. How do you achieve reversing? > > Thanks, > Chris Zizzo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chris Zizzo > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16107	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 12/20/2001
Subject: Superflex wire

In a message dated 12/20/2001 9:44:23 PM Mountain Standard Time, S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes: > <<If you're running new wires between engine and tender: > 1. try to use super flexible wire (Lionel dealers sell it).>> > > So do some AF parts dealers, Tom!!!!!! > > And so do the manufacturers of the can motor conversion kits. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16108	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 12/20/2001
Subject: Wiring

In a message dated 12/20/2001 9:44:23 PM Mountain Standard Time, S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes: > Subject: Wire size > > Hi all, > Just a quick little question; for wiring up my ne layout. What size > wire is used? Can I use wire for Lionel as there is a Lionel dealer > nearby? > Thanks > Jay > Oh boy, is that ever a loaded question. Use the largest that you can fit into/onto whatever you are wiring. ...Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16109	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/20/2001
Subject: Re: LIFTOFF!

Chris Zizzo wrote: > > Tim Brown reveals: > >I wired a full wave rectifier in between the field and armature (I did it > from the tender >'cuz there was more room since I removed the reverse unit). > I installed a similar >rectifier between the transformer and track. Voila! > I now have a loco that runs with full >remote directional control on DC > current. > > Tim: > I am glad you solved your problem, but your solution troubles me. > > In wiring your locomotive with a full wave bridge rectifier, you provided DC > power to the motor from AC track power. Actually this only rectifies the field. It forces one lead to the field to be always positive DC and the other always negative. >In wiring the track with a full > wave bridge rectifier, you provided DC power to the AC input leads of the > on-board rectifier, which has nothing to rectify since it is in a DC system. > > Wiring a DC rectifier between the field and armature is certainly an > interesting idea but the redundancy of your wiring plan may eventually > damage one or both rectifiers and possibly play havoc with the universal > motor. I would like to know the operational theory including the need for > dual rectifiers. How do you achieve reversing? When polarity of the track DC is reversed the armature polarity is reversed. The motor rectifier causes the field to remain at a constant (non reversed) polarity. Thus reversing polarity of the rails causes polarity of the armature and field to be reversed relative to each other. This is how you reverse a motor. Take a look at the diagram on Paul York's website and you can trace both polarities thru the motor. > > Thanks, > Chris Zizzo > > Chris Zizzo > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16110	From: bilfrazier@aol.com	Date: 12/20/2001
Subject: Re: DC conversion

In a message dated 12/20/01 11:44:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, S-Trains@yahoogroups.com writes: > > Message: 12 > Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 13:12:01 -0500 > From: "Tim Brown" <Timboy@...> > Subject: Re:Converting AC Flyer Locos to DC with directional control > > Hi Thorin and all, > > I get it. Bravo! Holding the field polarity constant in the armature and > reversing it in the field is the perfect solution. I went downstairs and > tried your wiring system. It went very smoothly and I now have a #290 loco > converted to DC with no fear of turning the field into a permanent magnet. > I used Tom Jarco's shoestring method of cabling the wires from the tender > to the loco. I didn't have a male jack panel, so I cobbled one up by > cutting it out of circuit board and drilling a couple holes through it for > the wire. After I put the wires through the male panel, I stripped the > ends of the wires off, doubled them over and built up a male end with > solder. They plugged into the female jack panel perfectly. [Tom - in true > Frank Zappa's non-conformist style, I used a dark maroon colored shoelace.] > One little caveat: a DC converted loco will not run on AC track current. > > In regards to converting an AC transformer to DC: I don't know if I > mentioned this previously, but I used a Radio Shack project box to house > the rectifier and mounted a cross-wired DPDT switch to the top of the box. > Then I took AC leads from the transformer to the rectifier in the box, DC > leads out of the box to the DPDT switch and finally, DC leads out from the > DPDT switch to the track. Another caveat here to all those wishing to > duplicate this procedure: when using a rectifier, you must know which > leads are AC and which are DC. If you don't, you can short out your > transformer and maybe even start a fire. If in doubt, test the rectifier > with a multitester first to determine which leads are AC and which leads > are DC. > > Does anyone out there in Flyer-land have a better way or any refinements to > the above process? > > Thanks to all, > Tim > If you are not too concerned with the resale value, as I am not, the rectifier and DPDT switch can be installed inside the transformer itself. I have an 18B and a 15B which have the switch (or switches on the 18B) mounted on the sloped panel behind the turret, and the rectifiers bolted down inside the case and wired to the terminal posts. I use 25 amp Radio Shack full wave bridge rectifiers and have been using the 18B this way for 15 or 20 years and the 10B for 10 years with no problems. I switched to DC about 40 years ago and have never regretted it. All 16 of my AF locos have been converted to DC, either with rectifiers, DC fields, or can motors. Some are now being converted again to DCC, but that's another story. Bill Frazier [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16111	From: Eugene Steffan	Date: 12/20/2001
Subject: Wire Size

For my switches, I use 16 ga. automotive trailer harness wire. Different colors than A/F rainbow wire, but easily adapted. Gene

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16112	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/21/2001
Subject: Re: LIFTOFF!

Hi Chuck, Thanks for the information. What purpose is there is creating a 1/2 wave DC current? Thanks, Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Smith" <cesmith@...> To: "Bente Velapoldi" <velapoldi@...> Cc: "Tim Brown" <Timboy@...>; "S-List" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 6:56 PM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] LIFTOFF! > My son's scanner is on the fritz and I don't have one so will try to > describe. The single diode creates a half wave rectified DC. Passes > only every other cycle from the AC input. The way to wire it is to have > a selector switch in your control box that switches between full wave > and 1/2 wave DC. > This can be done by powering both the full wave (bridge) rectifier and > diode from the transformer terminals. Both output wires from the bridge > rectifier put out the full wave DC. The single diode is in either leg > of the transformer output, the other wire from the transformer is > plain. The output of these two wires is 1/2 wave rectified. Now > install another dpdt switch beyween the full wave and half wave > rectifiers so you can select either as the the input at the switch end > terminals. The output, from the center of that DPDT, switch now feeds > the DPDT switch you use for reversing. One switch selects full or 1/2 > wave, the other reverses the polarity. > > Bente Velapoldi wrote: > > > > Chuck: > > This sounds interesting; would you show some kind of wiring diagram with appropriate words to us uninitiates? Is there some effect on the single diode and how does this compare with the supplied rectifier supplied by SnS with the can motor for AC operation? > > Thanks in advance. > > Rance Velapoldi > > > > Chuck Smith wrote: > > > > > My favorite source of power for a DC Flyer engine is still the AF > > > transformer with a rectifier. 75 watts is plenty for one train- that > > > delivers up to 4-5 amps DC. You can't beat the price and rugged > > > simplicity. DC power packs made for HO are a usually low on amperage > > > for converted to DC Flyer engines. > > > > > > If you run any DC can motors this transformer will not throttle them > > > down to a full stop because it starts off a about 7 volts. A solution > > > to this is to switch your output from the full wave rectifier to a > > > single diode when running can motors. This will allow most can motors > > > to stop or virtually stop at the lowest voltage. > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > -- > Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) > and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith > > "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool > than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16113	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/21/2001
Subject: Re: LIFTOFF!

Hi Chuck, What advantage is there to 'clean' DC current? Thanks, Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Smith" <cesmith@...> To: "Don Thompson" <robin@...> Cc: "Bente Velapoldi" <velapoldi@...>; "Tim Brown" <Timboy@...>; "S-List" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 6:58 PM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] LIFTOFF! > If you wanr "clean" DC merely hang a large (I recall 2000mfd > recommended) capacitor on your supply output and the ripples are pretty > well gone. You will also see a slightly higher top speed. > > Don Thompson wrote: > > > > Dear Chuck, > > They had me buy a costly clean DC power source for my DCC set up a few years ago. I got just as good results from my AF transformers and now use them at shows. > > Don > > > > Bente Velapoldi wrote: > > > > > Chuck: > > > This sounds interesting; would you show some kind of wiring diagram with appropriate words to us uninitiates? Is there some effect on the single diode and how does this compare with the supplied rectifier supplied by SnS with the can motor for AC operation? > > > Thanks in advance. > > > Rance Velapoldi > > > > > > Chuck Smith wrote: > > > > > > > My favorite source of power for a DC Flyer engine is still the AF > > > > transformer with a rectifier. 75 watts is plenty for one train- that > > > > delivers up to 4-5 amps DC. You can't beat the price and rugged > > > > simplicity. DC power packs made for HO are a usually low on amperage > > > > for converted to DC Flyer engines. > > > > > > > > If you run any DC can motors this transformer will not throttle them > > > > down to a full stop because it starts off a about 7 volts. A solution > > > > to this is to switch your output from the full wave rectifier to a > > > > single diode when running can motors. This will allow most can motors > > > > to stop or virtually stop at the lowest voltage. > > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > -- -- Don Thompson > > S Helper Service Inc. > > http://www.showcaseline.com > > 1.800.465.0303 > > New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping! > > http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html > > -- > Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) > and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith > > "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool > than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16114	From: Roger J. Dumas	Date: 12/21/2001
Subject: 752 Seaboard Coaler

FYI The Lionel 752 Seaboard Coalers have arrived. Received mine this AM. Haven't opened it yet. But it's finally here. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16115	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/21/2001
Subject: Re: Can motor conversion

Hi Howell, There is a way to 'fine tune' the reverse units so they work well on DC current: 1.) Thoroughly clean/polish/repair everything - drum, fingers, all hinge and contact points, etc 2.) Lubricate all moving parts with a graphite or other very high quality locomotive grease 3.) Make sure there are no burrs or obstacles to interfere with the smooth mechanical operation of the reverse unit. I have had to carefully use a file to smooth out a rough spot or two where the lifter would hang after power is switched off 4.) Place a small dot or square of conductive tape (a kind that won't get gooey in time) between the plate and bottom of the coil. By 'the plate', I mean that little metal pan under the coil that lifts the hinged arm that rotates the drum. You may need to insert two pieces of tape, one over top of the other. This tape creates a little air gap or buffer to break the residual magnetic field after power is turned off and lets the plate drop back down. You'll probably have to remove the reverse unit from the tender to do this - only one screw, hopefully 5.) (This step is an experiment I am conducting). Install a weight to the bottom of the plate heavy enough to let the plate drop when the power is turned off, yet not so heavy as to cause the plate not to rise in contact with the coil when power is applied. Be very careful here as you do not want to cause a short or a mechanical obstacle. It may be best to choose something that won't become magnetized in time and defeat your efforts. I have used a small washer, split and worked on over the edge, keeping clear of all contacts. There may be another way. I have followed my own advise and fine tuned reverse units to work on DC current. Now the regular non-adapted loco will run with full directional control on DC current. Of course, there is still the on-going maintenance problem with the reverse units to contend with. Hope this helps someone. Best wishes, Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Howell S Jobbins" <hsjobbins@...> To: <Timboy@...> Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 8:47 PM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Can motor conversion > Tim, > Are you running the power out of the "E" unit ? If you are just running > AC power into the rectifier and then out to the can motor this gives just > one directional operation, and you switch the leads from the rectifier > motor till it runs in the direction you want. The "E" unit using the > center and the right point or the center to the left point to create the > reversing of the power. the "E" unit magnet still needs the AC to pulse > which turns the drum to switch the polarity. I run engines with and > without the "E" units, but all on AC track power. The results are great > as these can motors draw a fraction of the power the old Gilbert field > motors used so you can run multi engines on the same loops and at crall > speeds. > Use test leads from the track into the rectifier and from the rectifier > to the wiring points on the motor, it should spin. Then work your way > through the "E" unit. Its sue to work . > Best of luck Steve J. NASG > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16116	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/21/2001
Subject: Re: LIFTOFF!

The 1/2 wave allows locos with can motors, like AM diesels, to nearly (or always with a load) stop when the Flyer transfrmer is at starting voltage. Remember that starting voltage for a Flyer transformer is about 7 volts. Tim Brown wrote: > > Hi Chuck, > Thanks for the information. What purpose is there is creating a 1/2 wave DC current? > Thanks, > Tim > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chuck Smith" <cesmith@...> > To: "Bente Velapoldi" <velapoldi@...> > Cc: "Tim Brown" <Timboy@...>; "S-List" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 6:56 PM > Subject: Re: [S-Trains] LIFTOFF! > > > My son's scanner is on the fritz and I don't have one so will try to > > describe. The single diode creates a half wave rectified DC. Passes > > only every other cycle from the AC input. The way to wire it is to have > > a selector switch in your control box that switches between full wave > > and 1/2 wave DC. > > This can be done by powering both the full wave (bridge) rectifier and > > diode from the transformer terminals. Both output wires from the bridge > > rectifier put out the full wave DC. The single diode is in either leg > > of the transformer output, the other wire from the transformer is > > plain. The output of these two wires is 1/2 wave rectified. Now > > install another dpdt switch beyween the full wave and half wave > > rectifiers so you can select either as the the input at the switch end > > terminals. The output, from the center of that DPDT, switch now feeds > > the DPDT switch you use for reversing. One switch selects full or 1/2 > > wave, the other reverses the polarity. > > > > Bente Velapoldi wrote: > > > > > > Chuck: > > > This sounds interesting; would you show some kind of wiring diagram with appropriate words to us uninitiates? Is there some effect on the single diode and how does this compare with the supplied rectifier supplied by SnS with the can motor for AC operation? > > > Thanks in advance. > > > Rance Velapoldi > > > > > > Chuck Smith wrote: > > > > > > > My favorite source of power for a DC Flyer engine is still the AF > > > > transformer with a rectifier. 75 watts is plenty for one train- that > > > > delivers up to 4-5 amps DC. You can't beat the price and rugged > > > > simplicity. DC power packs made for HO are a usually low on amperage > > > > for converted to DC Flyer engines. > > > > > > > > If you run any DC can motors this transformer will not throttle them > > > > down to a full stop because it starts off a about 7 volts. A solution > > > > to this is to switch your output from the full wave rectifier to a > > > > single diode when running can motors. This will allow most can motors > > > > to stop or virtually stop at the lowest voltage. > > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > -- > > Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) > > and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith > > > > "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool > > than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16117	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/21/2001
Subject: Re: LIFTOFF!

None that I can find. Actually the series wound motors creep better without the capacitor (This is caled pulse control on fancy power packs). The big capacitor tends to level out the rectified pulses, which are not smoothed out, to approach a battery-like DC. There might be an advantage with some control systems that need really smooth DC, and series wound motors seem to pick up a little top speed, but, as I said, for normal conditions I see no actual advantage to the smoothed out DC. Tim Brown wrote: > > Hi Chuck, > What advantage is there to 'clean' DC current? > Thanks, > Tim > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chuck Smith" <cesmith@...> > To: "Don Thompson" <robin@...> > Cc: "Bente Velapoldi" <velapoldi@...>; "Tim Brown" <Timboy@...>; "S-List" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 6:58 PM > Subject: Re: [S-Trains] LIFTOFF! > > > If you wanr "clean" DC merely hang a large (I recall 2000mfd > > recommended) capacitor on your supply output and the ripples are pretty > > well gone. You will also see a slightly higher top speed. > > > > Don Thompson wrote: > > > > > > Dear Chuck, > > > They had me buy a costly clean DC power source for my DCC set up a few years ago. I got just as good results from my AF transformers and now use them at shows. > > > Don > > > > > > Bente Velapoldi wrote: > > > > > > > Chuck: > > > > This sounds interesting; would you show some kind of wiring diagram with appropriate words to us uninitiates? Is there some effect on the single diode and how does this compare with the supplied rectifier supplied by SnS with the can motor for AC operation? > > > > Thanks in advance. > > > > Rance Velapoldi > > > > > > > > Chuck Smith wrote: > > > > > > > > > My favorite source of power for a DC Flyer engine is still the AF > > > > > transformer with a rectifier. 75 watts is plenty for one train- that > > > > > delivers up to 4-5 amps DC. You can't beat the price and rugged > > > > > simplicity. DC power packs made for HO are a usually low on amperage > > > > > for converted to DC Flyer engines. > > > > > > > > > > If you run any DC can motors this transformer will not throttle them > > > > > down to a full stop because it starts off a about 7 volts. A solution > > > > > to this is to switch your output from the full wave rectifier to a > > > > > single diode when running can motors. This will allow most can motors > > > > > to stop or virtually stop at the lowest voltage. > > > > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > -- -- Don Thompson > > > S Helper Service Inc. > > > http://www.showcaseline.com > > > 1.800.465.0303 > > > New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping! > > > http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html > > > > -- > > Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) > > and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith > > > > "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool > > than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16118	From: JFrederick Roberts	Date: 12/21/2001
Subject: 1/2 Wave

The 1/2 wave allows locos with can motors, like AM diesels, to nearly (or always with a load) stop when the Flyer transformer is at starting voltage. Remember that starting voltage for a Flyer transformer is about 7 volts. Would this then be a way to get can locos to stop for "lockout eliminator" type accessories such as a station? Oh, thanks everyone for the ideas on how to get my 303 back on track! --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctionsfor all of your holiday gifts! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16119	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 12/21/2001
Subject: Re: converting to DC (was cranky 283)

Dear Tim: The metal A.C. Gilbert used in his motor's field was not cheap. It is a special form of steel that does not hold a magnetic charge too well but conducts magnetic flux very well. This is good when run under AC. When run under DC, the field does eventually become a magnet. However the resulting magnet is weak and I doubt would be strong enough to run the loco. It would be strong enough to make the engine run slower in reverse until the magnet is destroyed by the field's coil. To avoid this I use the bridge on my armatures. As for the back EMF from the armature: this is a valid point. That is why I use 100 WVDC or higher bridges. (That was fancy talk for "buy the one rated for 100 volts or more".) The higher voltage ones are the same size and shape. They cost only a few pennies more. This has been a great discussion! Holiday peace, Thorin Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 13:15:21 -0500 From: "Tim Brown" <Timboy@...> Subject: Re: converting to DC (was cranky 283) Hi Scott, Just a guess here, but I doubt it. I just don't think the field would become magnetized to that extent. What do some of you guys think? Thanks, Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Holm" <imsscott@...> To: "s-trains" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 10:17 AM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] converting to DC (was cranky 283) > --- "Marty.Thorin" <Thorin.Marty@...> wrote: > > > All of the discussions here have us replacing the drum of the > > reverser with a bridge rectifier thus making the field a permanent > > magnet and, I will add, the field will eventually BECOME a permanent > > magnet because the flux ALWAYS is applied the same way. > > Hey! Does it become enough of a magnet that it could be used without > being powered? After training, could the rectifier and the wires > connected to it be done away with? > > Maybe we could even use this technique to restore old weakened DC magnets? [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16120	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 12/21/2001
Subject: MTH 787 (Was Lionel Pricing)

Dear Joe: I listed the following on the S-Trains list because I understand the S-Trains list is the A.C. Gilbert AF, Lionel AF, and Highrail list. The S-Scale list (where you posted), I feel is for Scale (and sometimes Highrail). (These two lists have LOTS of overlap with SHS, AM, BTS, etc.) The MTH 787 Log Loader is a 'reissue' of the American Flyer 787 so I posted it on the AF list. If you are not a member of the S-Trains list, I recommend you go to Paul York's site and sign up! All S Gauge trains are fun! -----Original Message----- From: Marty.Thorin Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 2:27 PM To: 'S-Trains (E-mail) Subject: MTH 787 log loader (30-9119) I just talked to Don Heimburger and was informed the log loaders are in Boston. He should receive them either just before or after Christmas. So it looks like these will start arriving in early January. Thorin P.S. Do not take me to task for calling the MTH 30-9119 a 787. I have wanted a NEW 787 that I could OPERATE without guilt for 30 years! Today I visited MTH's web site. The name is "No. 787 Log Loader". Its MTH number is 30-9119. Finally! A 787 at a reasonable cost that I can run until the cows come home! Thorin Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 10:32:14 -0500 From: "joe haughney" <J.Haughney@...> Subject: Lionel Pricing Gents, <Snip> Also has anyone seen the MTH log loader yet. Was supposed to be released 15 December but have not seen and presume that it wont be under by tree as much as I want it to be. Seasons Greetings, Merry Christmas, Happy New Year and to all a good night of electrified delight. Joe Haughney [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16121	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 12/21/2001
Subject: Re: Wire size

Dear Jay: You can use the Lionel wire. Purchased wire can be expensive! For long runs (15 feet or more) I prefer 12 to 14 gauge wire. I salvage this from the nearest remodeling job! (Most demolition is not done by an electrician. So the laborer just tears it out.) I just watch the junk piles or do a little dumpster diving when I need more wire. For the low current stuff I use 20 gauge also salvaged from a number of sources. (If you hunt you can find the cabinets that hold 15 car radios and 10 pairs of car speakers like a Radio Shack display. Lots of wire within plus a 12 volt power supply. Normally these become available when the power supply dies.) If I have a large current need I have been known to use two or four of these 20 gauge wires in parallel. If you have to buy, buy in bulk. It is much cheaper than the Radio Shack or Lionel blister packs. Look under 'surplus stores' in your yellow pages. Call them and ask if they sell wire. A surprising number do and what they have is someone's leftovers. (Example: This spool has only 990 feet left after company XYZ removed umpteen jillion feet from it -- five bucks and its yours.) One of my best lengths came from a well where the motor burned out. 150 feet of three wire cable. In its death throughs it roasted the wire. It can not be re-used for 110V or higher applications -- the insulation has been roasted. But it is still very well insulated for 18 volts. Good luck in finding cheap wire! It takes patience! Holiday peace, Thorin Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 22:38:54 -0500 From: Jay <jaay_st@...> Subject: Wire size Hi all, Just a quick little question; for wiring up my ne layout. What size wire is used? Can I use wire for Lionel as there is a Lionel dealer nearby? Thanks Jay [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16122	From: Dennis Conway	Date: 12/21/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: Wire size

Try: http://www.allelectronics.com/ The sell all kinds of electrical and electronic surplus stuff cheap, including all gauges of wiring. Dennis Conway Los Angeles

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16123	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/21/2001
Subject: Re: 1/2 Wave

It might work if there is a load behind the loco. The trick is that can motors draw only a fraction of the currect that Flyer series wound draw. Not sure you'll get 100% stopped. JFrederick Roberts wrote: > > The 1/2 wave allows locos with can motors, like AM diesels, to nearly > (or always with a load) stop when the Flyer transformer is at starting > voltage. Remember that starting voltage for a Flyer transformer is > about 7 volts. > > Would this then be a way to get can locos to stop for "lockout eliminator" type accessories such as a station? > > Oh, thanks everyone for the ideas on how to get my 303 back on track! > > > > --------------------------------- > Do You Yahoo!? > Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctionsfor all of your holiday gifts! > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16124	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 12/21/2001
Subject: Wire

Being a retired electrican I can recomend the building supply stores like Lowes Home Depot Etc Or a Hardware store....You can buy it by the foot ...#14 is great (Stranded) You can use #12 or #10 solid and tap off with lighter wire .. be sure to solder and tape these conections....The use of # 10 is good as a "Buss" wire for all the "Base" term. runs.....Basic is to run the #10 solid around the perimeter of your layot and "Tap" off of it....This saves a lot of wires running here and there....If useing multi Transformers make sure they are in Phase.....Mike S PS..I have made my own variable speed (Voltage) by useing a surplus transformer and a common hosehold light dimmer....The dimmer supplies power to the Primary side of the transformer....Works great...I did this just to see if it would work ...It does....I wanted to use these "Cheap" controls for independent spurs in a large switching yard [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16125	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/21/2001
Subject: Fw: AF Turntable

----- Original Message ----- From: "jl_lensman" <jl_lensman@...> To: <S-Trains-owner@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 21, 2001 11:15 AM Subject: AF Turntable > Hello, > > I am thinking about adding a turntable to my layout. Does anyone know > where I can get plans and lisitngs for part/equipment suppliers? I > don't want to buy an already made unit as the cost seems to be a bit > on the high side. Any info would be greatly appreciated. > > Jerry > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16126	From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com	Date: 12/21/2001
Subject: Wire

Try looking for wire at a liquidation type store. They buy stuff for pennies on the dollar. We have Mendelsons Liquidation outlet here in Dayton. I bought 400 ft of 16 gauge wire, 100 ft each of yellow, green, black, and red for 8.00 dollars about 2 months ago. They have anything you can imagine if you have time to look. A guy in our group found some stuff not related to trains that had made by AC Gilbert on them. He's on this list but rarely says much. Hey Bob, what were those things you found at Mendelson's? THE TRAINNUT CHRIS [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16127	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 12/21/2001
Subject: NPSG DECEMBER NEWSLETTER

You may visit our current newsletter at our North Penn S Gaugers website at: http://npsg3.homestead.com/files/npsgi.htm Staying on the NPSG branchline of NASG track, Glenn Ritter, Corresponding Secretary

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16128	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 12/21/2001
Subject: Re: LIFTOFF!

Well, I understand the theory and I think you're a freaking genius for coming up with it, Tim. I guess my problem was that I was thinking by the book and not laterally, like you. In my brain, you don't put DC on the AC inputs of anything. The premise that DC which reverses polarity once in an hour is really very slow AC is a charming concept and I am delighted to hear how well it works. I presume that DC engines working the same track will also be just as direction controllable. What a neat, problem solving conversion to DC. Congratulations. Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16129	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/21/2001
Subject: Re: LIFTOFF!

Hi Chris, Thank you for your very kind words. However, I don't think I can take full credit. This concept has actually been in use for a while. What I did was merely draw together the thoughts of the bright minds in S-land and brought it all to the forefront. Happy holidays to everyone, Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Zizzo" <Busyboy@...> To: "Charles E. Smith" <cesmith@...>; "Tim Brown" <Timboy@...>; "Scott Holm" <imsscott@...>; "slist" <s-trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 21, 2001 9:31 PM Subject: re: LIFTOFF! > Well, I understand the theory and I think you're a freaking genius for > coming up with it, Tim. I guess my problem was that I was thinking by the > book and not laterally, like you. In my brain, you don't put DC on the AC > inputs of anything. The premise that DC which reverses polarity once in an > hour is really very slow AC is a charming concept and I am delighted to hear > how well it works. I presume that DC engines working the same track will > also be just as direction controllable. > > What a neat, problem solving conversion to DC. Congratulations. > Chris Zizzo > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16130	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 12/21/2001
Subject: turntable

I have been sort of loosely planning a turntable for quite some time. Here are some ideas I'm considering; they may prove helpful to you; I would make the bridge from 2 or 3 Atlas HO truss bridges. I would mount a can motor inside a house ( shack) on the bridge. there would be a large round disc under the bridge, with a rubber band around it. The can motor would engage this rubber band and slowly move the bridge. You need 4 conductors to the bridge - 2 for the motor and 2 for the bridge. Therefore, I would make the center pivot of the turntable out of a three conductor stereo plug and jack. The fourth conductor would be the pit rail. On the bottom of the bridge would be four wheels. Each wheel would be held in half a Flyer link truck folded over on both sides of the wheel, with shortened axles. they would have 5to be mounted so their height was adjustable. The rail would be reshaped Flyer rail. For an indexing mechanism I would try to use the triangle pointed spring loaded wedges that hold AF #720 switch mechanisms in position. Triangular notches would be cut into the fact of the pit to accept the triangle point. The wedges would be inside both ends of the bridge floor, facing the pit wall. This is all theoretical at this point, but I hope it helps. A lot of trial and error would be needed! Happy holidays. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16131	From: TCS	Date: 12/21/2001
Subject: New decals from Oddballs Decals - N, HO, S and O scales

674 MP truck rail service 32 foot container. (early 50's) Painted MP blue & gray. Red, white, blue & black graphics. Set will letter one container. Kitbash your own container. 675 MP speed restriction sign numbers. (all eras) May be used for other railroads. 6 each of 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50, 55, 60, 65, 70 and 75. Silver numbers. You have to make your own sign post. 676 ADM 5150 cuft 3 bay covered hopper. (repainted 10-01) Painted med gray. Accurail kit. White, blue, green and black graphics. Set will letter one car. 677 DT&I 86' auto parts car. (3-70) Painted magenta, silver doors. Athearn kit. Yellow, white, & black graphics. Has the large DT&I compass yellow & white, black & yellow herald. This set retails for $5.25 for HO & N scales. $10.50 for S & O scales. Set will letter one car. The N scale sets will letter 2 or 3 cars. S & O scale will letter 1 car. All the above decals refer to HO scale kits on the market. These will also work for other scales. Just pick a car of your choice in the other scales. Prefix numbers for N scale 60-. HO scale 87-. S scale 64-. O scale 48-. N & HO scale retail price $3.25. S & O scale retail price $6.50. These should be in your favorite hobby shop within the next month or so. If ordering direct, please include $1.75 for p&h. Up to date catalog N, HO, S & O scale, $6.00, plus $1.75 for p&h. You buy this catalog once, then every 3 months or so, send me a LSSAE for updates. Fits in a 3 ring binder. May you all have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!! --- --- Tom Stolte - Oddballs Decals N, HO, S & O Scale Model Railroad Decals 26550 227th Street; McLouth, Kansas 66054 Phone: 913-727-6649 - oddballdecal@... Web site http://www.oddballsdecals.com/ Subscribe: OddballsDecals-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Missouri Pacific Photos Web Page: http://www.trainweb.org/mopac/ NMRA Member #121756 Subscribe: MOPAC-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16132	From: joe messinger	Date: 12/22/2001
Subject: Track Repair?

Would anyone know of a "slick" way of replacing a section of damaged Flyer track on a layout after it has been nailed down? I dropped a heavy box on my Christmas layout last night and mashed a section of track on a curve. Just wondered if there was an easy way of replacing it without tearing up half of my layout. Thanks and Merry Christmas to all. Joe Messinger _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16133	From: yazfacts	Date: 12/22/2001
Subject: Switch Derailing problems with my #293.........

Dear Group, I seen it posted on Paul's web site,but I can't seem to find it anymore.Could the person who posted a picture of a A.F. switch that showed which part of the switch to file down or cut off to make the wheels go over the switch without derailing please re- post it or contact me.yazfacts@... I'm having a problem with my A.F. #293 derailing on a right handed A.F.switch. Everytime it comes into that switch it falls on it's side !! I think modifing my switch will help that problem.Or does anyone have any ideas........ Thanks as always.......Bob

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16134	From: Scott Brown	Date: 12/22/2001
Subject: TrainWorld

I just wanted to tell you my experience the other week with TrainWorld. ( www.trainworld.com ) I wanted a G scale train for around my Christmas tree. I have a new dog that has already eaten the channel changer and I wasn't going to risk my AF trains which are just the right size for his mouth. lol. I looked on the Trainworld website and found a nice PRR 2-4-2 set with smoke and chug sound for $135. including shipping. I called and placed my order and 2 days later it arrived on my doorstep. It was only missing the track connector for the transformer, but I soldered the wires to the track and voila !! the train ran great ! I just wanted to let you know how pleased I was with the service and speed I received from Trainworld. It's nice when you find a store that actually serves their customers. Trainworld also sells LTI AF cars and engines if you are interested in those. If you buy more that $100 of LTI stuff, you get a 20% discount. Trainworld buys closeouts from other stores and manufacturers, so you may get refurbished items or items that are missing a piece or 2, so you need to examine your purchase carefully, but overall I have been pleased with their products and service. Just thought you'd like to know a good place to buy trains. Scott Brown [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16135	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/22/2001
Subject: Re: Track Repair?

I remove track nails from about 3 sections on either side. Then pry up the offending piece, not worrying about kinking the pins a little bit. Replace the bad piece and push everything back down into place and renail. The pins will be force back into position while you are forcing everything back down and will still make good contact. It looks scary to see the pins so bent but don't worry. In fact, it may improve contact. I have done this to work on switches (turnouts) that needed repairs on the part of my layout that uses Flyer track with rubber roadbed. joe messinger wrote: > > Would anyone know of a "slick" way of replacing a section of damaged Flyer > track on a layout after it has been nailed down? > > I dropped a heavy box on my Christmas layout last night and mashed a section > of track on a curve. Just wondered if there was an easy way of replacing it > without tearing up half of my layout. > > Thanks and Merry Christmas to all. > > Joe Messinger > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16136	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 12/22/2001
Subject: S Trains for Christmas

The message below was supposed to be sent out to everyone who contributed to make the Christmas Train Set Giveaway of the Carolinas Division of the Atlantic Coast S Gaugers a huge success. If you did not receive this message and contributed to the project, please let me know so your name can be added to the list of contributors and you can be truly acknowledged. WE apologize for any oversights, but in our zeal to get these trains out we sometimes failed to write down names. A list of all contributors will appear in a future message. In the meantime, thanks to everyone who made this project such a huge success. A special thank you to Pete Hildenbrand for organizing the effort and to his daughter Amy for playing Santa Claus to needy children with the gift of trains. Joe <Dear All of Santa's Little Helpers, < <My name is Amy Hawley. My dad is Peter Hildenbrand. I <just wanted to send you a note of thanks for all your <help in making Christmas very special for 20 families <this year. Many of the parents have allowed the <trains to be discovered early and have reported <that "this confirms that there is a Santa Claus." <When the children were asked how did they know, they <responded very quickly that the train was elf-made, <not like the ones in the store that are all wrapped <up. These little guys are awfully intuitive. I can't <begin to express myself adequately in words for all <that your trains do for these families. They are <wonderful gifts that they never dreamed of giving to <their children as well as bringing the family <together on the floor as they experiment with layouts <and just watch as the engine chugs around the base of <that tree. One little boy has changed his list to <Santa and says he only wants cardboard. He has the <train and that is enough, if he could have cardboard <he and his dad and sister could create a town for the <train. Basically through your one toy, you have <sparked imagination, rekindled fond memories, and <planted the seed for the true meaning of Christmas-<Giving and being with family. <One train set has served as a medium for a father and <son to become reunited after 3 years of separation. <The child will be joining his father and new step <mother in Germany after the New Year. The father is <with him here in the states. He is a member of the <armed forces and will be in Germany for the duration <of Operation Terrorist. The little boy was very <distressed until he was told that the train would be <coming too. <You all are truly Santa's Helpers and your reaching <out to children let's me know that the world is not <as bad as all the media would like us to believe. You <have touched the lives of so many and you have <touched my heart. Thanks for letting me be a part of <this special time. Without you I would not be able to <play Santa Claus. It is just like the Grinch <discovered.. Christmas is not in the bright packages <and new toys with the glitter and glitz. Christmas is <in the eyes of a child who believes. I witnessed <Christmas from the faces of 35 year old children when <they received the trains. You are spreading love and <peace and the spirit of reaching out to others with <your kind and thoughtful donations. You are my <heroes! Merry Christmas. < <With respect, appreciation, and fondness, <Amy Hawley ===== Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613*9 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,300 part lines American Models ## S-Helper Service ## Gilbert Rerpoductions Featuring Parts by Toy Trains International joestrainrepair@... Master Card/Visa __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16137	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/22/2001
Subject: Re: Track Repair?

Hi Joe, Here's some things I would try: If you can work a gap in the rail joint, use a cutting wheel on a dremmel tool to cut through the rail jointers. Lift out the bad old section. You'll have to push the cut ends further into the remaining sections of track. You could do that with spare rail joiners and a set of pliers. Now you can put in a new section with it's rail joiners removed (a good set of pliers and a firm grip will extract them). You end up with a dead section of track, though. You could first solder a set of jumper wires to it and across to a power clip on an adjoining section. Be careful not to cross the wires. Or, you could grind down a pair of rail joiners just a little less in width and insert them into the new section so they slip. After the new section is installed, if there is room to get a small set of needle-nose pliers, slip them back across the joint. It might work. It may just be easier to tear up enough track to remove/replace the old one. Does anyone have a different/better solution? Good luck, Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: "joe messinger" <jmessinger@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2001 5:45 AM Subject: [S-Trains] Track Repair? > > Would anyone know of a "slick" way of replacing a section of damaged Flyer > track on a layout after it has been nailed down? > > I dropped a heavy box on my Christmas layout last night and mashed a section > of track on a curve. Just wondered if there was an easy way of replacing it > without tearing up half of my layout. > > Thanks and Merry Christmas to all. > > Joe Messinger > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16138	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/22/2001
Subject: Re: Switch Derailing problems with my #293.........

Hi Bob, It may not be the fault of the switch. I wouldn't advocate a 'shotgun' approach of just tinkering with this and that to see if it solves the problem. By observation, determine exactly what the problem is first. Push, guide or slowly run the loco over the section. Observe how the wheels behave. When exactly is a wheel leaving the track? What is causing that? There could be any number of problems/solutions. Perhaps all you need to do is shim up the other side of the switch/track section to bank the loco into the switch. Maybe the track section before the switch is bent down a little causing the loco to rise then fall onto the switch. Perhaps the track is a little out of gauge. Maybe the switch frog is unstable and it rocks under the weight. Maybe the very end of the frog has a little burr on it that need filed down to make an almost seamless match to the rail. Maybe the frog doesn't close tight against the rail. Do other locos have a problem on this switch? I solve most of my derailments by careful observation, looking for that cause/effect. I hope I haven't confused the issue. Sight unseen, I'm just offering up some things to consider. Happy Holidays, Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: "yazfacts" <YAZFACTS@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2001 7:09 AM Subject: [S-Trains] Switch Derailing problems with my #293......... > Dear Group, > I seen it posted on Paul's web site,but I can't seem to > find it anymore.Could the person who posted a picture of a A.F. > switch that showed which part of the switch to file down or cut off > to make the wheels go over the switch without derailing please re- > post it or contact me.yazfacts@... I'm having a problem with my > A.F. #293 derailing on a right handed A.F.switch. Everytime it comes > into that switch it falls on it's side !! I think modifing my switch > will help that problem.Or does anyone have any ideas........ > Thanks as always.......Bob > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16139	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/22/2001
Subject: Re: track repair

Hi Joe, As a follow-up. It may indeed be best just to take up several sections by bending them up at the rail joiner to get them apart. Yes, it looks like you are destroying your track, but you're not. Lots of us use that technique from time to time. I didn't know if you have scenery or ballast glued down or something else 'permanently' in place that would be a pain to disturb. That would be a reason to try surgery. Happy Holidays, Tim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16140	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 12/22/2001
Subject: holiday fun

Five minutes ago, the Union Pacific merchandise train pulled by two greasy bell ringing Alcos just pulled into the yard under the tree and cut off its engines into the loco siding. Next, the other U.P. Freight, pulled by a GP-7, is going to come out of the staging track behind the sofa and enter the yard. Then the Santa Fe Chief will pull out of the arrival/departure track and go behind the sofa. The 10 car coal train will come down off the trestle and enter the yard too, and cut off its engine. The switcher will come out of its siding, pull off the coal train's caboose, cut the train in half and divide its coal cars between the two freight trains. It will also cut out two tank cars from one of the freights and spot them at the Gilbert oil depot. The two freight trains will head out in opposite directions. The loco from the coal train will be pulling one of them. The GP-7 will stay behind helping the switcher restore order in the sidings. While the switching operations are going on, the other passenger train will be running around the main line up,over, down, under, and up again. Floor railroading is fun!!! Hope you guys are enjoying the holidays too. Happy New Year to all of you. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16141	From: IronHorse	Date: 12/22/2001
Subject: Re: Track Repair?

joe messinger wrote: > Would anyone know of a "slick" way of replacing a section of damaged Flyer > track on a layout after it has been nailed down? Yup. Use a modelers saw to cut out a section (away from the pins) Then pull out the pieces with the pins. Or you could use a heavy pair of wire cutters to cut a section out of the middle of that section of track. then pull out the remaing ends. > > > I dropped a heavy box on my Christmas layout last night and mashed a section > of track on a curve. Just wondered if there was an easy way of replacing it > without tearing up half of my layout. > > Thanks and Merry Christmas to all. > > Joe Messinger > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16142	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 12/22/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1252

Yes, the subject actually is: "Re: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1252" because S-Trains said: > There are 20 messages in this issue. And every one was a gem. I actually saved this and the last two days digests of posts for future reference. What a terrific tech talk on DC rectifiers and a new thread starting up on turntables; amazing. Merry Christmas to you all. May you spend many hours with your cheek pressed to the living room carpet, your eyes squinted down until one pine tree becomes a thousand as you wait for the twice a minute passing of the Super Chief. Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16143	From: Jim Hannawald	Date: 12/22/2001
Subject: Knuckle Coupler

I'm wondering if any one on this list can tell me how the knuckle coupler is assembled and/or disassembled. I have some that need to be repaired and I'm having trouble getting them apart without breaking something. Mainly the weight and the hook. Thanks, Jim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16144	From: Scott Brown	Date: 12/22/2001
Subject: MTH Log Loader

Well, I"m now the proud owner of an MTH Log Loader. I picked it up today. It runs quite well right out of the box. May need a little adjustment of the hook, but other than that, it runs great. So, now I own the MTH Coal Loader, Gabe, Sawmill, and Log Loader. All of them work very well right out of the box. Can't say the same for their Lionel counterparts. MTH has been worth the money every time. Just thought you ought to know. Scott Brown [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16145	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 12/22/2001
Subject: knuckle couplers

Jim: try to get a copy of or from the January 1993 Classic Toy Trains. There's an article I wrote in there, with excellent photos, on repairing Flyer knuckle couplers. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16146	From: John L.	Date: 12/22/2001
Subject: 8B Transformer Parts

Are there replacement parts for the 8B transformer? - The wiper arm on mine was "repaired" some time ago by a former owner who had the tip that wiped against the transformer coil break off - then he resoldered it on - eventually leading to intermittant behavior from the transformer and making gouges on the transformer winding. . Are new wiper arms available (or replacements) and if so how does one put it on - as the parts on the original arn't assmbeled with screws, but rather with rivets. Or is there a good fix for this situation?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16147	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 12/22/2001
Subject: 8B parts

A part like that must be obrtained from a junk transformer. A parts dealer may have one and can sell you the whole arm assembly. In general, combining parts from several defective units is the best way to deal with a problem like this. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16148	From: lensman@erols.com	Date: 12/22/2001
Subject: Log Loader Setup

Hello everyone, Well I got my 751A Log Loader setup and it needs a bit of tweaking. I have two qustions regarding this unit. My first question regards the pulley, the log carriage comes all the way up against it. I am wondering if perhaps this is the wrong pulley. It seems big to me, looking like the pulley on a AF906 work caboose that I have on the layout. The part number on the pulley is #PA9719, could be #PA8719 as my eyes aren't what they used to be. My second questions is in relation to the cord and wheel. My assumtion is that the wheel only travels is one direction, so the cord should be adjusted to allow the wheel to make a complete revolution with enough tnesion to trip the log carriage and drop the log into an awaiting car. Any info would be appreciated. The unit seems strong. The log carriage just about shoots the logs through the shack when loading and I believe that with the right amount of tweaking the unit should work just fine. Jerry

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16149	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 12/23/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1252

E-UNIT: ( reverse unit ) Tim Brown, Step #5 adding weight to the ( armature ) lifter plate will cause the unit to buzz. I have fount that the holes punched into the side plated to small in some units and by re drilling will help. Adjusting the angle of the ball where it contacts the drum also will help. Jerry 77-11644 Before I get criticized for using a LIONEL term E-unit , I will apologize to the AF group. ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16150	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 12/23/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1252

TURNTABLE I have built a turntable for my layout. You need at least an area at least 4'-0" square. The bridge is a 1" x 3" x 1-10" ( 2 - 1/4" x 3/4" straight hardwood ), shaft is a bolt 1/2" x 0'-6", with a chain sprocket attached by sandwiching it between 2 nuts and fiber washers to act as a friction clutch drive this with a 400 : 1 geared motor. bridge sets on a thrust bearing in center and a single HO track on short ties on the ends, and HO brass wheels. Power ( on a DPDT switch to change the polarity of the power ) to bridge is thru the bolt & HO track. Bridge is detailed with card stock and wood strips. Keep in mind you have to move locomotives that are heavy. Remember to mark each end of the bridge, so you can match the polarity of exit or entrance track. Note: layout all construction lines before drilling for the center shaft. Indexing is by eye, indexing units are available at $90.00, ( the eye works just fine). Chain and motor were salvaged from a copier. total cost about $5. Jerry 77-11644 ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16151	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 12/23/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1253

Track replacement: with a small pair of diagonal wire cutters, insert then between track sections at one end of the damaged track and move the track pin into the damaged rail, replace with a new section, with track pin notches removed, push the pin into the new rail far enough to clear the adjacent fixed rail, but leave sufficient length to grip and slide the pin into the adjacent fixed rail ( only one end is necessary ). The track pins slide into the rail fairly easy. Jerry 77-11644 ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16152	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/23/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1252

Hi Jerry, I have done the fine-tuning of the reverse unit procedure to three locos: #287, #302 and #355. I haven't detected any buzzing sound when run on DC current. Quite the contrary. I've observed that running on DC current has the effect of quieting the reverse unit. The only thing I noticed is that instead of the little 'click' when the plate drops back down, it's now more of a muffled 'thump'. I'll take a look at the other part, though - making an adjustment. I'm definitely receptive to making the least invasive 'fix' I can for running the reverse unit on DC. Boy, those three units I did sure do work nice now. Each one goes through the four positions smoothly every time whether I run them on AC or DC current. The next loco I want to try this fix on is a Franklin two-position reverse unit. I'll post my findings for the group when I get it done. Best wishes for a happy train-running holiday, Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerald R Dobbs" <grdobbs@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2001 9:39 AM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Digest Number 1252 > > E-UNIT: ( reverse unit ) Tim Brown, Step #5 adding weight to the ( > armature ) lifter plate will cause the unit to buzz. I have fount that > the holes punched into the side plated to small in some units and by re > drilling will help. Adjusting the angle of the ball where it contacts the > drum also will help. > > Jerry 77-11644 > > Before I get criticized for using a LIONEL term E-unit , I will apologize > to the AF group. > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16153	From: Cbtrainnut1@aol.com	Date: 12/23/2001
Subject: Holidays.

I hope everyone has a Wonderful Christmas and a Great New Year! Remember, Jesus is the reason for the season. The trains are the icing on the birthday cake! We will be away for the holidays and away from the computer, so if you e-mail us , we will get back to you after the 6th of Jan. Happy Holidays!!!! THE TRAINNUT CHRIS [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16154	From: Horn, David	Date: 12/24/2001
Subject: 751A log loader

The hook 'n pulley is similar if not the same as used on work cabooses, cabeese, you know what I mean. I bought my 751A (log lift solenoid below the deck vs 751 with it above) about 3 years ago and had to mess with that part of it too, but don't remember now exactly which hook 'n pulley it ought to be. Check parts guides, or online sources to see if different or identical part #'s are used for the two applications. You're right, the big horizontal wheel travels only in a counter-clockwise direction and it should have just enough tension to activate the log release as it forces the silver rod and spring in the cart to compress. If the cart is interfering with the hook 'n pully then maybe you need to adjust/extend the silver pusher rod on the cart (and accordinly the length of cord). It's really quite an ingenious design - - large wheel comes to the point of a switch on the left side (facing the unit), stops the rotation, when you press the power button momentarily it takes the pulley past that point (allowing the switch to close) and power is applied for the remainder of the rotation until it returns to open the switch again. Cool. And you're also right about the log lift - - bizZZZAAATTTT! On the one hand, it sounds more like post war Lionel than AF, on the other hand I love the way it wakes up anyone watching or playing trains with you! Enjoy, and Merry Christmas! The information in this message is confidential and is intended solely for the addressee(s). BEST! Software, Inc. disclaims any responsibility for the contents of this message, including any attachments. The views expressed in this message are those of the sender and do not necessarily reflect the views of the company or any other employee of the company. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, please notify BEST! Software, Inc. immediately by E-mailing Postmaster@... and destroy all copies of this message.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16155	From: W. Thomas Boussum	Date: 12/24/2001
Subject: Holiday greetings.

Every year at this time my memory revisits a time during the 1948s, when our troops were engaged fighting enemies in another lands, just as they are today. My mom, dad, and I are standing at the Reading station in Schuylkill Haven, PA awaiting the arrival of the passenger train that would take us on an about two hour rail trip to Philadelphia for our annual Christmas shopping trip. I could not wait to get to Gimbels where I could see the American Flyer trains in Toyland. Because of the war effort and the resultant strategic priorities there were no trains available for kids of the time. We who were growing up at that time had wooden push toy trains and cardboard trains, but electric trains were out of the question. So at Gimbels I could, at vicariously, see "my" trains running. Of course the American Flyers of the time were the O-S trains that A.C. Gilbert was making at the time, but that only meant that the store could operate Flyer, Marx, and Lionel on the same track. Then I heard the barking of the locomotive's whistle as the P7sb Atlantic (as I now know the inspiration for the American Flyer Atlantics) with its consist of clerestory roof coaches rounded a slight turn approaching Conner's crossing, about a mile north of the Schuylkill Haven station. Looking north, I could see the plume of smoke as I heard the distinct "choo-choo" of the steam engine. On cold mornings with no wind, as we had on this particular morning, the smoke from the stack and the steam exhaust had a characteristic appearance that told the observer just how cold the day was. Then, as the locomotive approached the station, the white puffs of steam from the steam chest revealed that I soon would be surrounded by the comforting warmth of the passenger coach as we headed toward "the City," as most people in Haven at the time referred to Philadelphia. Finally, as the train arrived at the station, the welcome odor of the burning 60%-40% bituminous-anthracite mixture that was burning in firebox was a delight to the olfactory sense. After a long stop at Outer Station in Reading while the tender was was refilled with water, and passengers could refill their bodies with food, and we were under way again. Finally we arrived at Reading Terminal, within its vast trainshed, which always appeared to be a night scene, even now at just about 9am. For several hours we would visit all the department stores in Philadelphia, have lunch at the Turin Grotto, an Italian Restaurant that was near the Reading Terminal. After several more hours we eventually would arrive back at Reading Terminal for the trip home. While I waited there, I looked at the live steam model of the Reading G1sa that was displayed in the waiting room along the Market Street wall of the Terminal. This locomotive was built by Reading Locomotive Shop apprentices during the 30s. It is pictured in the book "Reading Power Pictorial," by Bert Pennypacker. If I remember correctly the model is on permanent display at the Franklin Institute in Philadelphia. It was dark when we arrived back in Schuylkill Haven. We boarded a taxicab and were driven to our home on St. John Street. This five year old was so tired that he immediately went to bed to dream of the coming Christmas morning and all the wonderful gifts that he would receive. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ That rather personal experience having been recorded, I wish to take this opportunity to wish every one on the S-Trains List my best for a Merry Christmas and/or a Happy Holiday Season. W. Thomas Boussum [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16156	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 12/24/2001
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Digest Number 1057

Wishing all of you out there in "S" land a Merry Christmas from Steve & Sam at S-n'-S Trains in the wilds of Idaho.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16157	From: david_garber2000	Date: 12/24/2001
Subject: xmas cheer

A very merry Christmas to all and a blessed happy New Year. May all your problems be 3/16 of last years and happiness be 100%. Keep S- Gauge running for years to come, see you in the chat room, enjoy!! David S. Garber (Dave)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16158	From: John Foley	Date: 12/24/2001
Subject: Happy Holidays

Hi Folks Here's hoping you all have a Happy Holiday and Happy New Year. John Foley

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16159	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/24/2001
Subject: Franklin reverse unit

Hi Folks, In my last posting, I mentioned wanting to look at my Franklin reverse unit and see if I could get it to run on DC track voltage. First I tested it on DC. For some odd reason, it cycles in forward and reverse just fine as is. Whew! I'm not sure I could have modified it with my own advise anyway. It's a two-position reverse unit and operates differently than the four-position ones. So apparently all that's needed to permit a Franklin to run on DC current is just to keep everything clean and well lubricated, which I'm sure all of us always do anyways. Has anyone else done any tinkering with the Franklin reverse unit and have some advise/tips to share? Peace, Tim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16160	From: W. Thomas Boussum	Date: 12/24/2001
Subject: Turntables and roundhouses.

I read Gerald Dobbs' posting in S-Trains Digest Number 1254. The size of the area needed for such a model is almost prohibitive for most S modelers. I have often thought of the roundhouse that used to be in the St. Clair yard of the Reading. It was really a roundhouse, being 3600 with what would have been a stall open for locomotives to access the turntable. The structure had to be large to accomodate all the BIG motive power that the grades of eastern Pennsylvania anthracite region demanded. I know that there were 2-8-8-2 pushers (class N1sd), 2-10-2 road locomotives (class K1s), and Northerns (class T1) housed in the building, as well as smaller locomotive classes. Ah, to be able to have room for such a structure and its accompanying turntable on an S gauge layout. Incidentally, Yuengling is presently building a brewery where the railroad entered the St. Clair yard from the south. W. Thomas Boussum "If you want to bake an apple pie from scratch, you must begin by creating the universe." Carl Sagan in "Cosmos." [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16161	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/24/2001
Subject: Christmas card

Look in the files section of S-Trains for a Christmas card- It's a picture of a railroad snow plow in action -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16162	From: S-Trains@yahoogroups.com	Date: 12/24/2001
Subject: New file uploaded to S-Trains

Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the S-Trains group. File : /xmasplow.jpg Uploaded by : chasesmithus <cesmith@...> Description : Christmas card You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/files/xmasplow.jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, chasesmithus <cesmith@...>

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16163	From: Angelo Corridori	Date: 12/24/2001
Subject: Angelo Corridori/Poughkeepsie/IBM is out of the office.

I will be out of the office starting December 21, 2001 and will not return until January 2, 2002. I will respond to your message when I return.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16164	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 12/25/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1252

>I have fount that the holes punched into the side plated to small in some units and by re >drilling will help. Gerry: You wanna write this sentence again, so I can understand it? Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16165	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 12/25/2001
Subject: Re: Franklin reverse unit

Even though the reverse unit is a two position device, it still is capable of operation on DC. The Franklin motor is a universal, so DC operation without modification is possible. The caveat that others have brought up is that solenoids are not always as reliable on DC and not as forceful when they activate. Thus the call for weights and overhauls and lubrication. My caveat to this entire discussion would be that I have had a reverse winding burn out under DC operation. It might have burned out equally as well on AC. Maybe it's time was up. I do wonder if any of you have found extra heat in the solenoids on DC and if you have experienced any problems, from darkening of the varnish, electrical smells, solder breakdowns, right through total burnouts? Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16166	From: tomsmitty2001	Date: 12/25/2001
Subject: solenoids on dc

Chris Z. commented on the potential for overheating solenoids when operating AF on DC. Somewhere through the discussion of DC conversion, and it may have been in an earlier, shorter-lived discussion, someone had the "official explanation" for why the solenoids got hot....something about back-EMF or hysteresis or somesuch electrical jargon that I don't fully understand. Nearly all of my locomotives have been converted to run on DC by utilizing the two-bridge rectifier method and a DPDT for reversing. What I have found and am responding to Chris's query about, is that the solenoids in the action caboose' DO get hot, and it doesn't take a lot of running, maybe half an hour, and the body of the caboose is noticeably warm to the touch. My solution has been to park those particular caboose' for a cool-off. I know there are such things as inverters that will take DC and convert it back to AC, however my knowledge of these devices is that they're much too big to fit in a caboose body....do the electrically astute among us know of smaller gizmos that will do the same ? Best regard"S" and Happy Holidays to all on the list, Smitty

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16167	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/25/2001
Subject: Re: Franklin reverse unit

Tim, I think the problem with the statement below is that solenoids actually pull in MORE forcefully on DC, assuming the same voltage. Given that, it may make them more prone to burnout on DC, though I've never seen the problem. Anyone know for sure? We have converted action cabooses to run on DC by installing a rectifier to eliminate the loud hum and had no apparent problems. Chris Zizzo wrote: > > Even though the reverse unit is a two position device, it still is capable > of operation on DC. The Franklin motor is a universal, so DC operation > without modification is possible. The caveat that others have brought up is > that solenoids are not always as reliable on DC and not as forceful when > they activate. Thus the call for weights and overhauls and lubrication. > > My caveat to this entire discussion would be that I have had a reverse > winding burn out under DC operation. It might have burned out equally as > well on AC. Maybe it's time was up. I do wonder if any of you have found > extra heat in the solenoids on DC and if you have experienced any problems, > from darkening of the varnish, electrical smells, solder breakdowns, right > through total burnouts? > > Chris Zizzo > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16168	From: john4flyer	Date: 12/25/2001
Subject: Help choosing repro accessories........

I am in the market for both the repro Gabe and Sawmill. These will be used on my layout and operational efficiency is very important. I purchased the LTI barrel loader (2300) made in the early '80's and it is a piece of junk compared to my original Flyer (779) barrel loader. So.....I am looking for suggestions on either the MTH or Flyonel versions of these accessories. Thanks in advance......John Napierski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16169	From: Scott Holm	Date: 12/26/2001
Subject: DC Burnouts

--- Chris Zizzo <busyboy@...> wrote: > I do wonder if any of you have found extra heat in the solenoids on DC and if you have experienced any problems, from darkening of the varnish, electrical smells, solder breakdowns, right through total burnouts? I converted the action caboose to DC and after extended operation it started to smell like it was burning out so it's on the shelf to be reworked by removing the capacitor and/or replacing the full wave rectifier with a diode. I think the reason for the burnouts is that with AC converted to DC, the voltage is higher. If you use a full wave rectifier on a 30B, with a large filter capacitor it will achieve almost 40 volts DC at the top setting. That's over twice the current and power of what it would be with AC. You would probably get less problems using a DC transformer because its maximum output DC voltage would be much lower. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16170	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 12/26/2001
Subject: DC Power (was LIFTOFF!)

Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 09:20:20 -0500 From: "Tim Brown" <Timboy@...> Subject: Re: LIFTOFF! Below is a summary of DC power. There is lot here and I cover DC, filtered DC, and half wave DC. ------------------------------ Full Wave DC DC power, as it comes off of the bridge rectifier is the same voltage as was inputted, almost. If you input 18 volts AC into the bridge, you will get 18 volts full wave DC out .. almost. The almost is because the silicone diodes each eat 0.7 volts. A bridge rectifier consists of four diodes, two of which are active at a time. 0.7 * 2 = 1.4 volts. So 18 volts - 1.4 volts = 16.6 volts. This 16.6 volts is full wave power. mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm That is much of what it looks like on an oscilloscope. So it goes up, has a gentle crest (like a tall, skinny rainbow), and then falls back to earth (or zero volts). These humps and drops are called 'ripple'. ------------------------------ Filtered DC Adding a capacitor has two effects. First, it pulls the voltage to its true voltage (ever heard of RMS voltage?) by multiplying the voltage by the square root of 2. If the capacitor is big enough, it also smoothes the voltage until it is flat like comes off a battery (no ripple). I'm talking 2000 mfd or larger.) Square root of 2 is 1.44. 16.6 volts * 1.44 = 23.5 volts Wow! No wonder they move like the wind with my 19B on DC! (4000 mfd) Summary: 18V AC into a bridge rectifier with a big capacitor results in 23.5 volts DC! ------------------------------- My Railroad (plus lead in for Half Wave) I said I use my 19B with the bridge rectifier. I am tapping the base post and the variable voltage post into the bridge rectifier. Then I add the capacitors and last it is out to the tracks. I have a second transformer that give me 18 Volts AC for my transistor throttle. After the filter capacitor I introduce a small amount of ripple before it hits the rails. Why? The ripple actually causes the motor to shake. This shaking will break the friction and allow the motor to spin at a slower speed. This throttle also has a three way switch to determine output voltages: 0 - 12, 0 - 23, 6 - 23 or scale, full range, AF. I normally run full range. ------------------------------- Half Wave DC This is easy to do. Just use one diode instead of the bridge rectifier. (This is how those 'energy saver' buttons you can put beneath your bulbs work.) The result is every other hump is eliminated. (See above under Full Wave DC.) The motor only gets half the power and really shakes as it works. I don't use half wave as this shaking causes heat. Lots of heat. I have seen motors burned out because of the effects of half wave. So you can use half wave to get past the fact that the AM and SHS motors will creep at 2 or three volts. I don't because of the danger of burning them out. Instead I recommend purchasing a RIX transistorized throttle. The old Troller throttles managed a very nice ripple by having two throttles in the same box run off the same knob. Each sub-throttle was for each half-wave. When the throttle was cracked, one throttle would produce half wave power at like 3 volts and the other was off. When run at full speed, both throttles were running flat out and the power output was almost flat, 12 volts DC. Abet at one amp -- not enough! ------------------------------- House Hold dimmers used to vary the voltages on an AF transformer I saw this idea posted recently. I warn against this. Remember how I said before that Full Wave DC consists of all these humps? Most dimmers work by making the humps narrower by chopping them off. You have dead spots between. This is fine for incandescent lights and halogens. But not good for things with windings -- like motors and transformers. Some of the new dimmers are rated for running ceiling fans. These MIGHT be okay but I am still leery. The correct solution to vary 110 V AC is to use a Variac. This is a dangerous operation as a Variac is an Auto Transformer -- it only has one winding so the output voltage (variable) is some percentage of the input 110 AC and will shock you because it has the house circuit as the ground. The output of the Variac is to be inputted to step-down transformers such as an AF transformer. Do not work with Variacs unless you know the rules for high voltage electricity! ------------- Well, I hope this clears a few things up. Holiday Peace, Thorin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16171	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 12/26/2001
Subject: Re: DC Power (was LIFTOFF!)

Hi Thorin, Under your filtered DC With your math calc. That might explain why the coils tend to be hotter when changed fron AC to DC opperation.......Mike S. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16172	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 12/26/2001
Subject: Turntable ideas

I have a number of CHEAP ideas for turn tables. I have seen the Bowser S-Scale. It is a kit. There are cheaper ideas for a good turntable. Idea one: don't power it. Instead, reach in and turn it by hand. I have a number of HO friends who have such 'armstrong' turntables and they love them. I have a simple way to do this. Go buy the 15 inch turntable from Rubber maid. It is intended for a kitchen cabinet. This turntable forms the bottom of your pit. Now you don't have to worry about the ring rail being round, or flat -- they are glided to the Rubber maid turntable, which is the bottom of the pit! The challenge is powering the rails. You will need some sliders, extra flexy wire, or something. Build a bridge on top of the turntable and scenic the rest. Put it into a round hole and no one will notice the scenery moves with the table. This idea works best for tables near the edge so you can see to line up the rails. Harvey's includes a small lever on the side of the turntable near the end. This lever runs a plunger which sockets into the turntable pit wall to provide alignment. Idea two: use the new Atlas turntable. It is only 8 inches long but has 22 indexed locations. Again install it into the bottom of the pit. Build the S Scale turntable on top of it and as long as you need. (I need enough for an UP 4-8-4.) You will have to hang the Atlas motor under the turntable but that isn't hard. The Atlas turntable has all of the voltage connections, wipers, etc. built in. It also has the alignment built in. The biggest catch with the Atlas turntable is it pauses on each and every track as it goes around. Not prototypical. Idea three: Build from scratch. Design your own motor and such to power it too! Worried about alignment? The real ones had alignment problems too. I remember seeing one being jockeyed back and forth because it didn't want to do the last 6 inches -- it kept drifting past. (Turntables often did not have brakes -- where are they going?) It used a trolley car motor geared VERY high and it zipped! Once it was finally aligned, they pushed a plate between the rails of the turntable between the rails on the edge and that one sheet of 1/4 steel provided the alignment and locking. Thorin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16173	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 12/26/2001
Subject: Re: DC Power (was LIFTOFF!)

You got it. This also explains why the 977 breakman caboose snaps better after conversion to DC with a capacitor. (The capacitor is to get past the dirty track, not raise the voltage. The capacitor does both.) Thorin -----Original Message----- From: Anormal1@... [mailto:Anormal1@...] Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2001 11:57 AM To: Thorin.Marty@...; s-trains@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [S-Trains] DC Power (was LIFTOFF!) Hi Thorin, Under your filtered DC With your math calc. That might explain why the coils tend to be hotter when changed fron AC to DC opperation.......Mike S. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16174	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 12/26/2001
Subject: Re: DC Power (was LIFTOFF!)

Hi Thorin, I hope that NO ONE USES A DIMMER FOR AN AF TRANS. The dimmer and transformer that I was writing about was a Suplus transformer that was used to var. the voltage going into the primary side of the transformer...This also produces a "Choppy" wave form...Thia is for AC use only...The top of the wave is cut off a bit which lowers the voltage so the sec.has to be about 19v no more than 20v....I am sorry If anyone took the "Dimmer" approach to mean that it was to be use with an AF transformer....I always use a V meter with my Dimmer Transformers.....Another thing that can be done to take the "load" of a transformer(AF) is to use the AF transformer to run the trains on and buy a larger surplus trans former with 18-19v secodarys to run all of your switches & acc. Mike S. Ps I had spoken to the gentleman from Duke Univ.(Sorry can't remember his name) as to the effects of using the dimmer and was assured the motors would not suffer [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16175	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 12/26/2001
Subject: Re: Turntable ideas

Anyone in the SO Cal area if you have the time you might want to go to Taylor yard Just of the 5 next to Grifith Park....They are tearing it out soon to put in a park there....There are two really nice Turntables there....Taylor is/was there main maint. Yard for UP/SP I will try to get some pics as my sons work there and I get to run loose there(Somewhat).......Mike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16176	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 12/26/2001
Subject: Turntable Alignment

About turntables, Thorin wrote: >>> "Idea three: Build from scratch. Design your own motor and such to power it too! Worried about alignment? The real ones had alignment problems too." >>> Here's a tip from S-scale Master Craftsman Jess Bennett for perfect alignment and indexing on your turntable. He uses cow magnets!! These are the very powerful magnets that are fed to cows to collect the nasty little bits of ferrous metal they inevitably swallow. As I recall from seeing Jess's layout, he has a magnet inserted under the track from each stall. Once properly aligned and installed, there's no way the bridge track on your turntable is going to deviate! The magnets are relatively inexpensive and are usually available at your local feed store (if you live in or near cattle country--urbanites may have to surf the web). A plug for fellow RMHRer Steve Blackburn's S-Gauge video series: you can see Jess's turntable in Volume I, and I believe it's in Volume II as well. (That right, Steve?) By the way, I just returned from one of my most enjoyable lunch hours in a long time. Our club set up Lookout Junction for members to play on during the month of December, and I put together about 32 cars pulled by my new S-Helper Union Pacific F3 A-B. What a gorgeous sight! The engines had plenty more pulling power and could have taken even more cars, but I had some discrepancies in coupler height, so had to remove the offending stock. Still, it was impressive! (You have another winner, Don Thompson.) Then I cranked the transformer down to crawl speed and watched the F3 inch the lo-o-o-ng consist around the layout. Bringing up the rear was my new Hobby Surplus UP caboose in Armour Yellow, which sure looked fine. Thanks, Santa! Aren't we all fortunate to live in lands where one can have so much fun??? Hope you all have a good holiday season, and the best of everything in 2002! Come visit us at the Boise Depot Celebration, April 20-21, 2002. YourS, John Eichmann Rocky Mountain Hi-Railers Boise, Idaho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16177	From: TCS	Date: 12/26/2001
Subject: New Decals from Oddballs Decals - N, HO, S and O scale

678 CNW M of W trucks. Painted old or Zito CNW yellow. Set will letter 23 trucks. CNW bar & ball 3 color red, black & white logos. 679 MP M of W trucks. Painted orange. Set will letter 18 trucks. Screaming Eagle & Missouri Pacific Lines 2 color red & white logos. 680 MP 40' piggyback trailer. (1982) Set will letter 2 trailers. Screaming Eagle red, white & blue logo. 681 MP 40' piggyback trailer. (1978) Set will letter 2 trailers. Missouri Pacific Lines red & white logo. The N scale sets will letter 2 or 3 cars. S & O scale will letter 1 car. All the above decals refer to HO scale kits on the market. These will also work for other scales. Just pick a car of your choice in the other scales. Prefix numbers for N scale 60-. HO scale 87-. S scale 64-. O scale 48-. N & HO scale retail price $3.25. S & O scale retail price $6.50. These should be in your favorite hobby shop within the next month or so. If ordering direct, please include $1.75 for p&h. Up to date catalog N, HO, S & O scale, $6.00, plus $1.75 for p&h. You buy this catalog once, then every 3 months or so, send me a LSSAE for updates. Fits in a 3 ring binder. --- --- Tom Stolte - Oddballs Decals N, HO, S & O Scale Model Railroad Decals 26550 227th Street; McLouth, Kansas 66054 Phone: 913-727-6649 - oddballdecal@... Web site http://www.oddballsdecals.com/ Subscribe: OddballsDecals-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Missouri Pacific Photos Web Page: http://www.trainweb.org/mopac/ NMRA Member #121756 Subscribe: MOPAC-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16178	From: Don Thompson	Date: 12/26/2001
Subject: Re: River Raisin Update

River Raisin Update - The move to Illinois is progressing and there has been some work continuing on other fronts. The builders drawings for the C&O and PRR 2-10-4 locomotives have been received and are being reviewed for accuracy. There is a lot of detail on these locomotives! After the drawings are reviewed, revised and approved, construction of the pilot model will begin. We still have a few of the UP 8500 hp turbines left in stock, including two hirail (DC) units. The Pullman Troop Sleepers are once again on the active board. We expect to have pricing by the end of January. Plans call for the sleepers themselves to come with interior detail and as built paint and lettering. Other lettering schemes will be dependent on the availability of correct S scale decals or artwork. If you have questions contact Dan at: raisintwo@.... Also, if you haven't looked at our website lately, take a look. S scaler Michael Greene has been updating the site with our current projects and a newer look. http://riverraisinmodels.com/ (Note: Jim Kindraka has not yet estalished contact with a local internet provider, so we have been helping Jim with his updates - Don Thompson) -- -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16179	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 12/26/2001
Subject: DC Power

Marty: is there any potential shock hazard from the 2000 mfd capacitor? Thanks. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16180	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 12/26/2001
Subject: More on DC power etc.

We here at S-n'-S Trains give you the best of both worlds of AC/DC operation with our can motor conversion kits. I bring this up after reading all the conjecture and physics of electrical engineering on this list recently. What we do is keep your reverse unit coil and your smoke units and headlights running on full track power AC while using the reverse unit drum as the DPDT switch that is needed to reverse the current to change loco direction. Thus the can motor itself runs on DC from the reverse unit mounted rectifier and everything else runs on AC. No need to worry about the solenoid in the reverse unit burning out because of DC. No need to have additional DPDT switches mounted between transformer or anything else. Simple but effective. We believe in the KISS method of doing things. Regards to all Steve & Sam

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16182	From: jahoozdumm	Date: 12/26/2001
Subject: Get yer hot coils!

"Marty.Thorin" <Thorin.Marty@w...> wrote: >Summary: 18V AC into a bridge rectifier with a big capacitor results >in 23.5 volts DC! That's PART of the reason coils run hotter with the capacitor in place. There is another reason. Coils resist the flow of electrical current in two ways: 1. DC resistance of the wire. 2. Inductive reactance. The DC resistance of a coil depends, of course, on the length and size of the wire used to wind the coil. This resistance value does not change, whether the coil is driven with DC or AC. (Unless so much current is jammed through the circuit that the coil gets hot. Then it's resistance will increase.) Inductive reactance in the coil comes into play with alternating currents. It's value (measured in ohms, like resistance) will depend on the number of turns in the coil, the type of "core" the coil has, and the frequency of the AC feeding it. As frequency goes up, so does inductive reactance. The 60 cycle frequency of the current coming from our walls is high enough to cause significant amounts of inductive reactance in the coils typically used in AF solenoids. However, if the coil is fed smooth, filtered DC, there IS no AC frequency, so there is no reactance. The only opposition to current is the coil's DC resistance, which is lower than the combined resistance/reactance value that the coil would exhibit with 60 cycle AC. So, even if you lower the DC voltage so its value is equivalent to the AC RMS value, the coil will still get hotter. More current would be flowing through it. One way to arrive at a lower value of DC for a given AC track voltage would be to use the filtered DC to drive a voltage regulator chip, which would drive the solenoid. The output of the regulator would be determined by a calibration resistor. Such devices are small enough to fit easily into any AF caboose. Chuck F.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16183	From: Ted Larson	Date: 12/27/2001
Subject: through truss

Here's a site showing construction of a through truss bridge, a bit rare these days. This bridge is about 1/2 mile from my house. It is interesting to compare the rate of construction progress for the truss portion vs the rest which is of modernd deck construction. The difference is similar to the difference between handlaying track and installing panel track. http://www.lyndonroad.com/PHOTOS.HTML ===== Ted Larson __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16184	From: lawrence Jackman	Date: 12/27/2001
Subject: Re: DC Burnouts

Remember an old electrical term "BACK ELECTRICAL MOTIVE FORCE". Also called Back EMF. An AC coil sets up in itself a back flow current. This Back EMF cuts the amount of current used by the coil so the coil runs cooler. A DC coil does not have this Back EMF ao it uses more current and gets hotter. Look at your Electric 101 text books and you will see what I am talking about. Thank You Larry Jackman Scott Holm wrote: > > --- Chris Zizzo <busyboy@...> wrote: > > I do wonder if any of you have found extra heat in  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16185	From: WNHOLCOMB@aol.com	Date: 12/27/2001
Subject: Florida Train Shows

Anyone know of any train shows in central Florida during January and February ? Neil Holcomb [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16186	From: Hannon	Date: 12/27/2001
Subject: Lionel Postwar O-Gauge Reference Manual, Volume I

Hi Everyone: This is to let you know that Volume I of the Lionel Postwar O-Gauge Reference manual will be available on 11 January 2002 at the latest. This manual is organized primarily by postwar period motor, and includes troubleshooting and repair information on armatures, fields, horns, relays, and reverse unit coils. The name of the manual is: J.L. Cowen's Postwar Lionel Trains O-Gauge Reference Manual I Steamers, Diesels & Electrics You can get a preview of the contents of this manual at: http://www.trainrefs.com (The quality of the pictures had to be "dumbed-down" to avoid excessive transfer times, and browser time-outs). The manual is scheduled to go to press on the 7th of January. On the website, you will find a special offer for all orders received on/before January 6th. (If you have ever attempted to publish a full-color manual/book, you will understand the reason for this offer on the first printing). Thanks to all of you who responded to the poll back in February/March of this year. And special thanks to those of you who kept following up on its availability over the past months. A lot of work went into verifying the contents of the manual, which resulted in delay of its publication. But ... "better late than to make a mistake". Bob Hannon

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16187	From: Don or Marsha Munsey, Jr	Date: 12/27/2001
Subject: AF HO Items

Friend's', I recently came by 2 AF HO passenger cars. They are diecast metal similar in style to the smooth sided New Haven S-guage cars. They have diecast frames. They are hevy!. They are painted red enamel (I don't know whether this is original or not) with black matte roofs. There is no lettering on the car sides. They have "American Flyer//Made by//A.C. Gilbert CO.//U.S.A." molded into one end, inside the diaphram. They have some paint chips, BUT NOTHING is broken. All four steps are good. Acetate window glazing is loose inside each car. They have diecast trucks with diecast hook-horn couplers. One car is missing one truck. I don't know what they are worth to a collector of AF HO, but I'd be willing to swap them for Flyer S-gauge rolling stock in operator condition or less. Any interest? - please contact me off-list. Don Munsey, Jr. dmunsey@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16188	From: Don or Marsha Munsey, Jr	Date: 12/27/2001
Subject: On30 trucks

I know this is heresey, but I need a pair of Bachmann On30 passenger trucks. Anybody got a pair out there they'd be willing to part with? Contact me off list. THNX, Don Munsey, Jr. dmunsey@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16189	From: TED R LARSON	Date: 12/27/2001
Subject: turntable

Somebody recently asked about instructions for building a turntable. The article that tells how to use a 1/4" phone plug for the center bearing AND power to the rails is in MR Feb. 1987 Ted Larson Making mashed potatoes with skim milk is like buying a sports car with an automatic transmission. ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16190	From: boss31@aol.com	Date: 12/27/2001
Subject: Jess Bennett's tuntable

Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 14:15:01 -0700 From: "JOHN EICHMANN" <jeichmann@...> Subject: Turntable Alignment > A plug for fellow RMHRer Steve Blackburn's S-Gauge video series: you can see > Jess's turntable in Volume I, and I believe it's in Volume II as well. > (That right, Steve?) > > No John, it's in Volume III..........Steve [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16191	From: Alex	Date: 12/27/2001
Subject: FW: [S-Trains] DC Power

Tom: The capacitor charges up to 1.4 times the voltage (rms) that you see on your voltmeter. That's known as the peak value of the ac waveform that's being rectified. Nothing to worry about in terms of shock hazard, above and beyond what you normally encounter. -- Alex in Kennebunk, Maine -----Original Message----- From: jarcho@... [mailto:jarcho@...] Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2001 6:13 PM To: S-trains@yahoogroups.com Subject: [S-Trains] DC Power Marty: is there any potential shock hazard from the 2000 mfd capacitor? Thanks. Tom Jarcho S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16192	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 12/27/2001
Subject: Re: Florida Train Shows

Jan 26, '02 Deland FL, Fairgrounds This is from Mark Preman's web site, link below. I do not have any more information. Perhaps you can email Mark. > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16193	From: Gerald R Dobbs	Date: 12/27/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1257

Gilbert HO passenger cars. Green polystyrene body, die cast frame marked P9241A, 1946-50, average value $25, exc.$50. painted red?. Jerry 77-11644 ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16194	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 12/27/2001
Subject: cow magnets

Try this: http://www.magnetsource.com/cowmags.htm Notice that the heavy duty is cheaper than the standard model! Great idea, John. Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16195	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/27/2001
Subject: Beware Tom R's predictions! (not really S, but list stuff!)

HI all!--WARNING! If you can't stand non-flyer posts, just delete--this here's S-trains Family stuff! On chat recently Tom R (I think it was you, Tom!) predicted that Linda (my better half) would get a new car. Well. . . . On our way home from Dunsmuir and a great Christmas time w/ family, we blew a head gasket and had to be towed home. Haven't yet gotten the head off (too many @!#@!!! tubes and other smog stuff in there!), but if we messed up the motor too, we'll probably be car shopping! (260K miles on this one already!) SOOO, if Tom R tells you something is going to happen in your future, better take heed!! Hope you all had a Merry Christmas! (BTW, being in Dunsmuir was fun; I'd forgotten how much I liked the echo of the train loco whistles in the canyon, especially in the snow, it changes the tone. And I got to "belly whop" down the park hill again--first time in 25 years! It was great, but OH! am I sore now! (If ya don't know what "belly whopping" is, watch the Skeleton sledders during the Olympics, same thing, 'cept we use Flexible Flyers (couldn't find my old Yankee Clipper--that sled could be the pants off any Flexible Flyer!) ) Back to trains now!! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16196	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 12/28/2001
Subject: Frequencies: AC, DC Full Wave, DC Half Wave

> From: Gerald R Dobbs [mailto:grdobbs@...] > Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 4:38 PM > To: Thorin.Marty@... > Subject: > > Marty: > May by you can answer a electrical question. I have been under > the impression that putting a half wave rectifier in line to power a > locomotive, say 18 volts AC - 60 cycles per. sec. from the transformer. > After half wave you have 18 volts AC - 30 cycles per. sec. I have been > told that it is still 60 cycles per sec. > > Thanks for your time > > Jerry 77-11644 Dear Jerry: It is still 60 cycle power because the width of the pulses are still from the 60 cycle source. The difference between 60 cycle full wave power and 60 cycle half wave power is half the pulses are missing. The frequency is measured from the 'zero crossings'. AC power, when viewed on an oscilloscope is a sine wave. Here is a VERY bad drawing of such -- -- -- -- -- + volts A / \ B / \ / \ / \ / \ --/----\----/----\----/----\----/----\----/----\--- 0 volts / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ - -- -- -- -- - - volts Time ---> This goes on forever. See how it goes up and down? See how it crosses the zero volts line? Lets look at the two that go up. (Near the letters A and B) If you measure from A to B on 60 cycle power you will find it is 1/60th of a second. Or 60 cycles per second or 60 Hertz (Hz). If you rectify this power with a bridge rectifier you get this picture -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- - + volts / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / __V____V____V____V____V____V____V____V____V____V___ 0 volts A B - volts Notice how the bottom half of the sine wave got moved into the upper half. This is full wave DC power. (And points A and B are still 1/60th of a second apart.) Half wave has the following picture -- -- -- -- -- + volts / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ _ /____\____/____\____/____\____/____\____/____\___ 0 volts A B - volts See how every other hump is missing? Yet if you measure from A to B, you once again get 1/60th of a second. So this is not 30 cycle power -- it is half wave 60 cycle power. Of course, all of this discussion assumes you are starting with 60 cycle AC power. Thorin (First name) Marty (Last name) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16197	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/28/2001
Subject: DC discussion

Hi, Well, it certainly is nice to see the discussion on DC current is still viable. There has been so much information! Whew! I'm keeping every one of the emails on this subject! At this point I would like to see if I can draw one simple conclusion. Would this be a safe statement: Overall, there is no harm in running non-modified Flyer universal motors and reverse units on full wave DC current (converted via a bridge rectifier from AC current), provided one does not concurrently use another device to boost voltage. From all the emails on the above subject, I believe any incidence of breakdown by running on DC would fall within normal occurrences. What we really need is a quantitative test: e.g. 50 Atlantics MIB run 24/7 on AC current until they fail vs. 50 on full wave DC current until they fail. I wonder what we'd find. Any conjectures? Have a great new year, Tim [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16198	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 12/28/2001
Subject: Capacitors raise the voltage?

Dear Ted: Adding a capacitor doesn't really raise the voltage, is smoothes it. Your meter measures the AVERAGE voltage. Below is a VERY bad drawing of an AC sine wave. C -- -- -- -- -- + volts A / \ B / \ / \ / \ / \ --/----\----/----\----/----\----/----\----/----\--- 0 volts / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ - -- -- -- -- - - volts Time ---> D See that the sides slide up and down? So there isn't full voltage there all the time. Your meter measures the AVERAGE voltage including the portions that aren't there. This is the RMS voltage. (Root Mean Squared) If you measure from PEAK-to-PEAK, (Points C and D) you get the peak-to-peak voltage (AC scale). If you rectify this power with a bridge rectifier you get this picture C -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- - + volts / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / __V____V____V____V____V____V____V____V____V____V___ 0 volts A B D - volts Here your meter will read the same (DC scale). (I am ignoring the losses due to diodes.) Again we are measuring C to D. What a capacitor does is to try to smooth out the dips. It does this by briefly storing the volts (and a smidgeon of amps). Then you get something like this: _ ____ ____ ____ ____ _C__ ____ ____ ____ ____ V V V V V V V V V V + Volts --+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+--- 0 Volts A B D - volts This one is harder to visualize. The plus signs in the 0 Volts line is where the arcs used to touch zero and I added it as a reference to the picture above. Note how the capacitor ALMOST fills the entire void between the peaks. What is left is called ripple. (The bigger the capacitor, the smaller the void that is left.) Now if you measure this with your meter, the RMS voltage it shows is almost identical to the peak-to-peak voltage shown. So where does the power to fill these voids come from? Amps. There are fewer amps available as a micro speck of them were ultimately used to fill the gaps. (This loss is not noticeable with our models.) ---------------------- Below is a link to a web site that does a better job explaining RMS than I can. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/g_Knott/elect39.htm After reading the article on RMS you would expect my voltages to be twice what I show. They aren't because I am only using RECTIFIED AC which folds the lower half of the sine wave above the line. I have half the peak-to-peak AC voltage (because it is DC) and thus half the voltage. 2 * 1/2 = 1. I didn't show this in my equations before. Summary: The bridge rectifier provides RMS voltages to the rail (or DC scale on the meter). Adding a capacitor brings the reading on the DC scale on your meter closer to Peak Voltages. Holiday Peace, Thorin -----Original Message----- From: TED R LARSON [mailto:mhrreast@...] Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2001 2:35 PM To: mhrreast@...; Thorin.Marty@... Subject: dc ac GREAT summary. I'm startled though by the comment that a capacitor RAISED the voltage... I would have expected it to "average out" the voltage. Ted Larson Merry Christmas http://members.localnet.com/~tclarson/2001lttr/2001lttr.html [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16199	From: Carl Tuveson	Date: 12/28/2001
Subject: And now for something completely different. Train Cam

Well it's different for me anyway. I have made my new Train Cam available on the Web that runs on My layout. It is live occasionally when the layout is running. There are also Archived Pictures at: http://list.wsbt.com/af/archive/test.htm I hope to have it live for the Sunday Yahoo "strains" chat (8pm est) so we can watch trains while chatting. The Live page will refresh every 10 seconds. It's url is: http://list.wsbt.com/af/traincam.htm I hope to see you all there an hope it works :-) Carl http://www.tuveson.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16200	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/28/2001
Subject: Re: And now for something completely different. Train Cam

Hi, Well, someone had to do it! Bravo! Happy new year, Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Tuveson" <carl@...> To: "S-Trains (E-mail)" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>; <strains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, December 28, 2001 9:24 AM Subject: [S-Trains] And now for something completely different. Train Cam > Well it's different for me anyway. > > I have made my new Train Cam available on the Web that runs on My layout. > It is live occasionally when the layout is running. > > There are also Archived Pictures at: > http://list.wsbt.com/af/archive/test.htm > > I hope to have it live for the Sunday Yahoo "strains" chat (8pm est) so we > can watch trains while chatting. > > The Live page will refresh every 10 seconds. It's url is: > http://list.wsbt.com/af/traincam.htm > > I hope to see you all there an hope it works :-) > > Carl > > http://www.tuveson.com > > > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16201	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/28/2001
Subject: Re: switch remote

Hi Tom, I finally got around to connecting the base posts on my transformers. I didn't see any noticeable increase in voltage. I need to get an ammeter and check each section out. BTW, I noticed when phasing my 30B to the 8B transformers, I got a pretty good spark no matter which way I turned the plug, so I really can't tell which way puts it in phase. Any suggestions? Happy New Year, Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jarcho" <jarcho@...> To: "Tim Brown" <Timboy@...> Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 10:18 PM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] switch remote > If your transformers are phased correctly and you connect the base posts, > you very well may see an improvement in the power supply to your track. > > Tom Jarcho > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16202	From: TED R LARSON	Date: 12/28/2001
Subject: Fw: Re: Fw: wedding cake

Upon closer inspection, the bottom level is 3-rail! The train on level 3 it is noticably smaller. The track on level 2 resembles AF track. I'm suspicious that the levels, starting from the bottom, are O, S, HO, N. Ted Larson Merry Christmas http://members.localnet.com/~tclarson/2001lttr/2001lttr.html > Anyway, here is a cake that we could > aspire to. But you would have to have the recipe AND a bill of materials. > Check it out.... > > http://users.snip.net/~billlane/weddingcake.jpg > > Bill ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16203	From: Marty.Thorin	Date: 12/28/2001
Subject: Pulse width and DCC

Dear Ed, et all There have been some discussions that pulse width modulation must be OK for motors because all of the DCC controllers use it. First, a discussion on what 'pulse width modulation' is. Please refer to this picture: |----| |--| |-------| |------------------ + volts | | | | | | | _ |____|____|__|______|_______|_|__________________ 0 volts A B E F G - volts Time --> Please note that points A, B, E, F, and G are all the same distance apart. What changes is the width of the pulse above them. Pulse A is on 1/2 of the distance to B. So it is a 50% duty pulse. Pulse B to E is less and E to F is more. F to G is so wide that it doesn't have and 'off' section. If you average the voltage from A to B you will find it is 1/2 the total voltage. All of the DCC controllers use this method to control the motor. However, unlike normal pulse power (half wave 60 cycle power), they use a frequency much higher. And the new 'high frequency' (or humless) decoders push this frequency into the stratosphere. Once the frequency is high enough, the motor can not tell the difference between the pulse version and a voltage supplied by a battery. (Batteries produce perfect DC.) The lower the frequency, the more heat the motor will produce as it pulses with the power. (Let's NOT bring the discussions of EMF and voltage spikes in here! Please! Another e-mail chain, maybe...) There have been discussions here about coreless motors being burned out when placed on DCC track (without a decoder). A normal motor can dissipate the heat from shaking just fine. A coreless motor is missing all of the IRON in the armature and just has windings instead. There isn't the bulk there to dissipate the heat. These pulses cause shaking. The shaking is the armature wrenching itself towards the field poles and then relaxing. Extremely tiny yanks but yanks never-the-less. These yanks pull the windings, the core, the shaft, etc. All of these micro movements cause friction. If you do lots of BIG yanks, you will get bigger motions and bigger heat. 60 cycle half wave power is the king of BIG yanks because it is slow so the power yanks longer. The DCC decoders use a higher frequency so the yanks come much closer together so the motor doesn't have as long to relax. Less shifting within the motor equals less heat. The high frequency DCC decoders (humless) use even smaller yanks. For a fun exercise, put a old, open frame motor onto 60 cycle half wave power. Run it real slow. Then grab the shaft and stall the motor. You can feel the pulses! Holiday Peace, Thorin [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16204	From: TED R LARSON	Date: 12/28/2001
Subject: turntable, forklift and JL

Several years ago I found a nice, generic, medium size fork lift truck, good size for lumber yard, or similar use. I just found it available again, this time with a roll cage. Brand name is Motor Max. See photo at http://www.trainweb.org/mhrr/mhrreast/vehicles9.html I found it at Odd Lots. There are several other Motor Max construction items, most NOT S scale. The road packer and bulldozer might be ok. Most Johnny Lightning items are too small for S, however when JL makes a small vehicle, it turns out correct for S. I recently saw an army jeep, Jaguar, and Citroen from JL that all look like they are S scale, or very close to it. Didn't buy the Citroen or Jaguar, just don't think there's much chance that they would have shown up often in a small central Minnesota town. I sent this message previously, but don't recall seeing it show up on the list, so here's a "repeat". To get power to the track of a turntable, use a 1/4" phone plug; it functions as your pivot point also! Per Model Railroader, Feb. 1987. A Sept. 1986 MR article suggests picking up the power from the turntable circular rail. Split the rail, so that 180 degrees has one feed, the other 180 degrees has the other feed. Have a pickup wiper at each end of the turntable. Another advantage of this is that when the turntable rotates 180 degrees, the track polarity automatically reverses. Ted Larson Merry Christmas http://members.localnet.com/~tclarson/2001lttr/2001lttr.html ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16205	From: Scott Holm	Date: 12/28/2001
Subject: Re: DC Power

--- "Marty.Thorin" <Thorin.Marty@...> wrote: > Summary: 18V AC into a bridge rectifier with a big capacitor results > in 23.5 volts DC! Good grief, was I wrong! I've been measuring every rectifier and capacitor pair that I have (even used my old, unreliable meter) and can't figure out how I ever measured 39 volts. In the words of Gilda Radner's Emily Litella: never mind. In any case, due to the filtering and lack of back EMF there is still more power in a DC circuit to be dissipated, which may cause quicker burnout. There is also the issue in a true DC motor with a magnet in that the armature is not wired in series with a field, so the armature has the full voltage applied across it. And then another reason for a quicker burnout in a DC magnet motor is that the magnet weakens, causing the engine to stall or slow down, which in turn causes overheating of the armature. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16206	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/28/2001
Subject: Re: DC discussion

Tim Wrote: "What we really need is a quantitative test: e.g. 50 Atlantics MIB run 24/7 on AC current until they fail vs. 50 on full wave DC current until they fail. I wonder what we'd find. Any conjectures?" Yeah! A slight increase in the value of Atantics due to the loss of 100 of them!!!! ;-) S David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16207	From: bassflyer	Date: 12/28/2001
Subject: Flyer in CTT....

Just getting over the stomach flu, and my eyes might be playing a trick on me,...but in the Feb. CTT,..is that actually a large Flyer layout on page 82?? I didn't go to work today, still feeling a little crappy, but received the new CTT and S-Gaugian,..made my day!!! Hope everyone had a good Christmas, and Happy New Year to all!! Rick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16208	From: TED R LARSON	Date: 12/28/2001
Subject: Re: JL

On Fri, 28 Dec 2001 12:06:28 -0500 (EST) Thomas Baker <bakert@...> writes: > RE: proper scale vehicles > > I recently bought several items which I think were Johnny Lightning. > I bought the Citroen--saw them in Michigan, think I saw them in Minneapolis > years ago--bought two or three military ambulances, two or three Jeeps. > In addition, I have a 55' Chev convertible. These aren't scale? I > thought that JL outfit produced stuff 1/64. That Chev looks real close, Sorry to tell you, but yes, most JL cars are undersize. The JL models of full size cars, such as the recent '55-57 Chevs, are about the same size as the JL models of smaller cars, such as Corvette, Citroen, Jeep, Jaguar. The JL '55 Chev Nomad scales out at 5'7" wide; about 1/68th scale. The real 55' Chev is 6' wide (I have a '55 Chev wagon). Strangely, the JL pickups; '57 Chev, 70's Dodge, 60's Studebaker, 40's Ford; are full S scale. VERY sad that the cars are undersize. They ARE nice models. Use them in the background for forced perspective, or use them all together, apart from other S vehicles, so that the size difference is not apparent. I don't know what the real size is of the military ambulance, so can't comment on that one. General rule of thumb is that typical cars and pickups are 6' wide. Older cars and compact cars are typically 5'6" wide. Luxury cars are frequently wider, up to 6'6". > and I missed a chance to get a 1940 Mercury woody station wagon. I think that I have seen that one, nice model. > It, too, looked like 1/64. They are all too large for HO and too small > for O. Isn't this where Goldilocks comes in with "S"? I'm willing to go 1/62 to 1/66 without my eyeballs complaining too much. Other people's eyes are more forgiving about what is "close enough". Ted Larson Merry Christmas http://members.localnet.com/~tclarson/2001lttr/2001lttr.html ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16209	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 12/28/2001
Subject: AF 24720 info

Can anyone tell me what would be the actual size (length. width, interior height) of the prototype car that the AF 24720 passenger car models? Roger Petrella Franktown, CO

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16210	From: Gary Chidester	Date: 12/28/2001
Subject: e-Bay help?

Does anyone on the list know anything about or can give me information on e-bay seller "vinaro"? He has had several 336's for sale all using the same photos. Thanks. gary

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16211	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 12/28/2001
Subject: Re: DC discussion

Tim said: >What we really need is a quantitative test: e.g. 50 Atlantics MIB run 24/7 on AC current >until they fail vs. 50 on full wave DC current until they fail. I wonder what we'd find. Any >conjectures? Yes. It will take a long time. The MIB Atlantics will be worth $50 each when you start. Once they break down, they will be worth $50 each. Half wave, full wave, new wave, they'll still be $50 Atlantics. Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16212	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 12/28/2001
Subject: Re: switch remote

Tim Brown observed: >I finally got around to connecting the base posts on my transformers. I didn't see any >noticeable increase in voltage. I need to get an ammeter and check each section out. >BTW, I noticed when phasing my 30B to the 8B transformers, I got a pretty good spark >no matter which way I turned the plug, so I really can't tell which way puts it in phase. >Any suggestions? Tim: Connecting the baseposts together will not increase the voltage or current in the track at all. The purpose of doing this is to smooth the transitions a train makes as it moves from one transformer's controlled block to another's. The variable posts remain isolated. A voltmeter will show no increase. An ammeter will only demonstrate the current draw caused by the train, which will remain the same regardless of the transformer used. As to your 30B/8B mismatch, I suggest you verify that you were using the fixed voltage post on each for your spark test. Using the variable post will, well, vary. Get out your voltmeter and measure each transformer separately between base and fixed. If there is a substantial difference between the two units, measure base to variable and set each transformer to output exactly the same voltage. Then try your spark test on the variable posts. Alternatively, you can use your voltmeter. Phased transformers will have a small voltage difference from one fixed post to the other. Out-of-phase transformers will nearly double the expected fixed post voltage when measured across the units. Use care. It may be low voltage, but it's still electricity! Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16213	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/28/2001
Subject: Re: RETRACTION! CRS strikes again! WAS: Beware Tom R's Predicitons.

Ahem, It has come to my attention that, once again, I've slipped a cog, and it was Bob Hannon who made that prediction!! (although, it sure sounds like something Tom R. would do. . . .). So, my advise would be to avoid both of their predictions!!!! BTW, Happy new year to all!! S' David D. PS, Car should be back together by Monday, I'm about $450 poorer, and three days of work lost. AAUGH (don't know how many knuckle scrapes yet, but there's a few already!) Had to buy one "thermo valve" about two inches long w/ 1/4" fittings made of brass and aluminum (which rots away!), "dealer only" item-$70!!! Oh well, the first one lasted 15 years.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16214	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/28/2001
Subject: Re: AF 24720 info

Roger, I don't have the actual dimensions, but the AF car is at least O, if not bigger! These were fairly small cars by today's cars, or even 1940s cars. I would guess something like 40' length, maybe 50'. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16215	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 12/29/2001
Subject: Re: e-Bay help?

Gary Chidester wrote: >He has had several 336's for sale all using the same >photos. > Gary, As a 3 year eBay user who has bought many trains, this is a bad sign! When a person uses a photo that does not match the item for sale, they are misrepresenting it from the start, at least in IMHO... After all, you know what a 336 looks like, but you want to see what the one looks like you are bidding on, don't you? Unless the item being offered is brand new (really mint), I don't know how the same photo can honestly be used over and over again.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16216	From: fjg1870	Date: 12/29/2001
Subject: Re: AF 24720 info

--- In S-Trains@y..., "Roger V. Petrella Jr." <rogerpjr@i...> wrote: Can anyone tell me what would be the actual size (length. width, interior height) of the prototype car that the AF 24720 passenger car models? Roger Petrella Roger, As the story goes, the Franklin set was copied after an On3 passenger set. The biggest problem is the height of the car. The length of the AF car is about 56', which is a little short, but acceptable. Most cars from this period (1870-1880) were 57-60' long. The worst part of the car is the roof, and of course the streamlined passenger trucks. The Franklin locomotive is way oversized, but I guess this was done to make use of the Atlantic chassis rather design a totally new chassis. Too back the Franklin wasn't introduced in 1950 instead of 1959, it might have been a better looking, closer to scale set. After saying all this, I still think the Franklin set is one of AF's better offerings. Walt Danylak

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16217	From: Don Thompson	Date: 12/29/2001
Subject: Re: AF 24720 info

> Dear Walt, I had heard that EP Alexander had designed the Franklin set for the 50th Anniversary in 1959. Don > Roger, > > As the story goes, the Franklin set was copied after an On3 passenger > set. The biggest problem is the height of the car. The length of the > AF car is about 56', which is a little short, but acceptable. Most > cars from this period (1870-1880) were 57-60' long. The worst part of > the car is the roof, and of course the streamlined passenger trucks. > The Franklin locomotive is way oversized, but I guess this was done > to make use of the Atlantic chassis rather design a totally new > chassis. Too back the Franklin wasn't introduced in 1950 instead of > 1959, it might have been a better looking, closer to scale set. After > saying all this, I still think the Franklin set is one of AF's better > offerings. > > Walt Danylak -- -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New Reefers, 3 car reefer sets and Rebuilt boxcars are now shipping! http://www.showcaseline.com/woodenreefers_in_stock.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16218	From: Carl Tuveson	Date: 12/29/2001
Subject: No train cam Sunday...

I will be out of town Sunday due to a family emergency, therefore no Sunday chat etc.. Carl

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16219	From: Neimanis,V. [NCR]	Date: 12/29/2001
Subject: Turntables & Wiring

Since turntables are a recent topic of conversation and our list of S members has increased, I will again repose my asked question. I lost my wiring diagram when moving my layout and turntable years ago and have been unable to figure out the connections. It is probably a retrofit HO turntable with a 15 1/2 in diameter metal base. It is powered by a #5-100 Wilson's of Cleveland multi-geared motor and has 2 slider switches and a Bradley 926 gizmo (whatever that is). There are 4 wires coming from the turntable but the permutations and combinations with the switches (one was direction of movement and the other was polarity) along with this Bradley gizmo makes the job somewhat daunting. Again,any advice or leads to a diagram would be much appreciated. Thanks V. Neimanis Ottawa, Canada

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16220	From: notcoldenough	Date: 12/29/2001
Subject: solenoids on dc / test results

I read with interest several recent messages about solenoid operation on DC (My action caboose has a rectifier installed). A couple nights ago I operated my trains for our neighbor kids and noticed the caboose indeed got warm. All this gave me the incentive to do some testing this morning. What I found was interesting & confirmed what others have observed. What was surprising is that the increase in the amount of heat generated was more than I imagined (almost triples). As others mentioned, the operation on unfiltered DC lowers the impedance of the coil (drops from 32 to 19 ohms). The increased current as a result of this (goes up from .52 to .88 amps) increases the heating in the coil from 3.7 watts to 10.5 watts (2.8 times increase!!). Solutions: 1) Don't worry about it (but keep a Lionel #52 fire fighting car handy!) 2) Let caboose cool down periodically after operation near full voltage. 3) Increase impedance by adding a 5 ohm resistor in series with coil. This dropped the coil heating down to 5.2 watts. Only drawback is that the voltage at which the solenoid pulls the plunger in, increases to 8.4 volts (compared to 6.6 volts pull-in on AC without rectifier). 4) Remove the rectifier and operate coil on AC as originally designed. I removed the rectifier. The increase in noise was hardly noticeable. Here is the test data for the caboose solenoid, which was operated on AC as originally built and also modified with a bridge rectifier (no capacitor). Current draw from transformer (metered RMS values) AC – 0.52 amps rectified DC - 0.88 amps Coil resistance – 13.5 ohms (measured by ohm meter) Watts heat generated by coil: AC - 3.7 watts Rectified DC - 10.5 watts Impedance AC – 32.1 ohms Rectified DC – 19.1 ohms Notes: All measurements done with RMS capable digital meter. Power was from fixed terminals of a 4B transformer operating at 16.8 volts.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16221	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 12/29/2001
Subject: Re: AF 24720 info

Guys, thanks for the answers so far, but I think you are missing the point of my question. I know the AF cars are not to scale (or even close), but I want to know the size of the REAL cars. I don't have any reference material on these. Roger Petrella Franktown, CO

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16222	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/29/2001
Subject: Re: switch remote

Hi Chris, Thanks for your help on transformers. I now am confident my two 8B and one 30B transformers are all in phase. I believe the locos (even my Baldwin) run a little more smoothly through the blocks with all the base posts wired together. Now. I have a bunch of burned out #21160 Atlantics I would love to sell to you for $50 each (just kidding). Maybe what we need to fund that 'quantitative test' is celebrity endorsement. Lionel has Neil Young. Who does S-Gauge have? I wonder if there are any celebs who collect Flyer. I've never seen any Bruce Willis's or Demi Moore's (bad example) at any of the train meets. Maybe I wouldn't recognize them even if they were there. Happy New Year, Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Zizzo" <Busyboy@...> To: "slist" <s-trains@yahoogroups.com> Cc: "Tim Brown" <Timboy@...> Sent: Friday, December 28, 2001 8:24 PM Subject: re: Re: switch remote > Tim Brown observed: > >I finally got around to connecting the base posts on my transformers. I > didn't see any >noticeable increase in voltage. I need to get an ammeter > and check each section out. >BTW, I noticed when phasing my 30B to the 8B > transformers, I got a pretty good spark >no matter which way I turned the > plug, so I really can't tell which way puts it in phase. >Any suggestions? > > Tim: > Connecting the baseposts together will not increase the voltage or current > in the track at all. The purpose of doing this is to smooth the transitions > a train makes as it moves from one transformer's controlled block to > another's. The variable posts remain isolated. A voltmeter will show no > increase. An ammeter will only demonstrate the current draw caused by the > train, which will remain the same regardless of the transformer used. > > As to your 30B/8B mismatch, I suggest you verify that you were using the > fixed voltage post on each for your spark test. Using the variable post > will, well, vary. Get out your voltmeter and measure each transformer > separately between base and fixed. If there is a substantial difference > between the two units, measure base to variable and set each transformer to > output exactly the same voltage. Then try your spark test on the variable > posts. > > Alternatively, you can use your voltmeter. Phased transformers will have a > small voltage difference from one fixed post to the other. Out-of-phase > transformers will nearly double the expected fixed post voltage when > measured across the units. > > Use care. It may be low voltage, but it's still electricity! > > Chris Zizzo > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16223	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 12/29/2001
Subject: AC common rail

Connecting all the base posts together and establishing an AC common rail system greatly improves the delivery of power to the trains on my floor layouts, as well as make the transitions from block to block easier. Have any of you DC users established a DC common rail system on your layout? I'm kind of interested in that. Happy New Year to all. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16224	From: fjg1870	Date: 12/29/2001
Subject: Re: AF 24720 info

--- In S-Trains@y..., "Roger V. Petrella Jr." <rogerpjr@i...> wrote: Guys, thanks for the answers so far, but I think you are missing the point of my question. I know the AF cars are not to scale (or even close), but I want to know the size of the REAL cars. Roger, I have a drawing of a DL&W coach, about 1870, that measures as follows: Length over platforms: 59' Width: 9' 7 1/2" Height of car body: 10' 6" Height from rail: 14' Hope this is what you're looking for. Walt

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16225	From: Bruce Papky	Date: 12/29/2001
Subject: Sawmill available.

Happy New Year everyone! I ended up with two of Lionel's AF Sawmills (one was a Christmas surprise), and so my local hobby shop has decided to help me try to sell it. Because of a low local demand for S gauge, I thought I would try the S-Trains list. If you are interested, please contact me off-list for details. Thanks. Bruce.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16226	From: jde_can	Date: 12/29/2001
Subject: Phasing Transformers?

Hi there; Just a word re Phasing 2 Transformer's Please remember if you phase 2 different sizes of transformers, the highest voltage will be the pulled down to the lower level of the lowest Wattage/voltage transformer, [not the highest voltage] as many folks figured, actually if your voltage/Wattage Tranny is too low it can be a deterant and pull down rather then be an assett hope this is of some help. John Denholm <jde> PS; Please note my NEW E-mail address for your address File! jde@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16227	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/29/2001
Subject: Re: Phasing Transformers?

Hi John, Good comment. I guess in my case my two 8B transformers would bring down the voltage to the track from my honking 30B. I don't mind that. IMHO 15 volts is more than enuf to run the trains. Would the voltage to the accessories from the fixed post be pulled down as well? (Hoping the right answer is "no" cuz I like having 18 volts to run some of the accessories - really makes switches 'snap'.) Happy New Year, Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: "jde_can" <jde@...> To: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2001 7:33 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Phasing Transformers? > Hi there; > Just a word re Phasing 2 Transformer's > Please remember if you phase 2 different sizes > of transformers, the highest voltage will be the pulled down > to the lower level of the > lowest Wattage/voltage transformer, [not the highest voltage] > as many folks figured, actually if your voltage/Wattage > Tranny is too low it can be a deterant and pull down rather then > be an assett hope this is of some help. John Denholm <jde> > > PS; Please note my NEW E-mail address for your address File! > > jde@... > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16228	From: Scott Kubel	Date: 12/29/2001
Subject: HO Help

Hi This may be off topic but I have a question. I just received some AF and Marx HO in trade. Will AF and Marx HO run on modern HO track such as Atlas? Is it ok to use a modern HO tranformer such as MRC? I am not into HO but was thinking about putting up a small loop to run this stuff for fun. Thanks for the help. Scott Kubel TCA 99-48731

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16229	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/29/2001
Subject: Re: AC common rail

DC common rail is not a perogative when you use polarity reversing. jarcho@... wrote: > > Connecting all the base posts together and establishing an AC common rail > system greatly improves the delivery of power to the trains on my floor > layouts, as well as make the transitions from block to block easier. > > Have any of you DC users established a DC common rail system on your > layout? I'm kind of interested in that. > > Happy New Year to all. > > Tom Jarcho > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16230	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/29/2001
Subject: Re: HO Help

Post-war AF HO, yes. In fact, I believe Atlas made some track for ACG! Prewar AF HO is likely to be AC! Marklin HO is actually 3 rail, the center rail is a set of "buttons" on the ties; clever, yes? S David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16231	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 12/29/2001
Subject: DC common rail

Oh yes it is! Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16232	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 12/29/2001
Subject: Re: Phasing Transformers?

JDE said: >Just a word re Phasing 2 Transformer's >Please remember if you phase 2 different sizes >of transformers, the highest voltage will be the pulled down >to the lower level of the >lowest Wattage/voltage transformer, John Denholm <jde> This would only happen if both the variable voltage posts of both transformers, AND their base posts, were connected to each other, such as to power the same section of track. This should obviously not be done with disparate transformers. If the fixed voltage posts are connected, the problem JDE refers to would occur also. If the two transformers are in phase and have their base posts connected, as long as the variable voltage posts are not connected to each other, such as when they are used to power 2 separate blocks of track with isolaation in the variable voltage post rail, the problem would not occur. If one transformer is used to power the track, for example, and another is used to power action cars or track connected accessories such as the semaphore, in phase and with their base posts connected, it would not be a problem either. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16233	From: Al Paolozzi	Date: 12/29/2001
Subject: Re: Phasing Transformers?

Thanks for clearing that up for me. AL ----- Original Message ----- From: <jarcho@...> To: <S-trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2001 7:50 PM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Phasing Transformers? > JDE said: > > >Just a word re Phasing 2 Transformer's > >Please remember if you phase 2 different sizes > >of transformers, the highest voltage will be the pulled down > >to the lower level of the > >lowest Wattage/voltage transformer, John Denholm <jde> > > This would only happen if both the variable voltage posts of both > transformers, AND their base posts, were connected to each other, such as > to power the same section of track. This should obviously not be done with > disparate transformers. If the fixed voltage posts are connected, the > problem JDE refers to would occur also. > > If the two transformers are in phase and have their base posts connected, > as long as the variable voltage posts are not connected to each other, such > as when they are used to power 2 separate blocks of track with isolaation > in the variable voltage post rail, the problem would not occur. > > If one transformer is used to power the track, for example, and another is > used to power action cars or track connected accessories such as the > semaphore, in phase and with their base posts connected, it would not be a > problem either. > > Tom Jarcho > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16234	From: Gregg Mummert	Date: 12/29/2001
Subject: FLAGS

I was given this site if you want to add some flags to your layout. There are various sizes in O, HO, and N - but will work for S as well. http://www.tonystrains.com/download/us_flags_sheet.pdf or http://www.tonystrains.com/ and click on the "Free Flags" at the top of the page. You will need Adobe Acrobat Reader. Gregg Mummert _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16235	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 12/29/2001
Subject: AF tender truck rivet bushings

I recently discovered that at least 6 of my Flyer steam locos needed replacement of the fiber bushings that iinsulate the tender truck rivets from the tender floors. Some of these bushings were broken and some had just shrunk. This causes the tender to rock too much, causing excessive sparking from the pickup wheels and unwanted reverse unit cycling. If the bushing breaks, short circuits occur. The truck may be pulled out of its correct position. I find broken bushings most often on the front tender truck of locos whose drawbars run between the loco chassis and the front tender truck. The whole weight of any train such a loco pulls is transmitted through this bushing. I have some original AF replacement bushings, and those show signs of shrinkage too! What bugs me about this is the replacement bushings and rivets available from parts dealers. They seem to be the same size and width as the originals, yet it is always necessary to use a washer under the head of the rivet to get a decently tight fit. I just cannot figure out why this happens. Anyone else have a similar problem with these replacement parts? Any comments on this repair in general? Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16236	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/29/2001
Subject: Re: AF tender truck rivet bushings

What I don't like about the repro parts is the "fiber" washers are now made of plastic, and don't like the high heat required to get the steel rivets to accept the solder. I have learned to quench the plastic part right after soldering. Two solutions to this; 1) make the bushings out of fiber, 2) make the rivets out of brass! (or at least copper plate them) S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16237	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 12/29/2001
Subject: New Lionel Flyer Stuff

Hi: This is a cross post to two lists. I picked up my New Lionel flyer items at Nassau Hobby today. Charlie had them all laid out for me. I didn't take the Gabe because I didn't order it. I have the MTH version and just don't need two. I also gave back the Christmas car. I never buy Christmas cars. He was happy because he has guys lined up for both. (I guess he assumed I wanted ALL the new Flyer when it came in.) Demand for both items is causing a sellout. I have not broken the seal on the Seaboard Coaler. I thought I'd like to enjoy having an MIB item around for a little while. When I get tired of owning a cardboard box, I'll slice the tape and go in. What I will find is the "Searboard Coaler". Geez. I complain about the spelling on these lists, but an error like that right on the box is inexcusable. Wanna know why you don't have the coal tipple in your hot little hands? It's because the box says "Coal Nipple" and ladies working overtime are putting sticker replacement labels over the mistake. And what's with the $175 price on the log loader from MTH? The coal loader was $75. Is there another 100 bucks built into the thing that I don't see? The four freight cars look good, with new packaging that protects them in their boxes by suspending the car in two halves of a clear plastic bubble. New Flyer toys. Life is grand. God is good. I am free. Rant over, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16238	From: Chris Zizzo	Date: 12/30/2001
Subject: Re: Phasing Transformers?

John Denholm said: >if you phase 2 different sizes >of transformers, the highest voltage will be the pulled down >to the lower level of the >lowest Wattage/voltage transformer Sorry, but this is simply not true. The voltage in any given section of track will be the voltage supplied by the transformer operating that section. Base post tying is merely a method of making sure there is a polarity match from track block to track block and to the accessories. All the transformers, having been phased on their primary sides, are then tied together on their "neutral" leg so there is a single reference point. To apply any of this Least Common Voltage stuff mentioned, you would have to be wiring PARALLEL transformers, where both base and fixed posts are wired together to increase current capacity for heavier loads. It's like paralleling batteries. Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16239	From: Alex Sibbald	Date: 12/30/2001
Subject: 293 tender trucks

Hi all, I recently had one side of the front tender truck part company with the assembly after a derailment. Can this be reattached or must I replace the assembly? How were they originally attached? The side piece looks to be cast iron and the attached piece appears to be steel. Thanks alot, Alex(innotron)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16240	From: notcoldenough	Date: 12/30/2001
Subject: Re: 293 tender trucks

Alex, This has been discussed before. If you do a search in the messages area for "loose truck", "loose sideframe", "truck repair", etc, you should find some ideas. My method has been to glue them similar to what is described in the following message: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/message/16085 Rather than use 5 minute epoxy, I have been using a two part plastic bonder which sets hard in about 20 minutes and isn't as brittle as epoxy. Try Devcon plastic welder or Power Poxy plastic bonder. Good luck John Gasal --- In S-Trains@y..., Alex Sibbald <innotron@a...> wrote: > Hi all, > I recently had one side of the front tender truck part company with the > assembly after a derailment. Can this be reattached or must I replace > the assembly? How were they originally attached? The side piece looks to > be cast iron and the attached piece appears to be steel. > Thanks alot, > Alex(innotron)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16241	From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT	Date: 12/30/2001
Subject: Re: New Lionel Flyer Stuff

Just went and looked at mine!!!!!! Can't find the " cold nipple ".....But mine says " 752 searboard coaler !!! "....Guess the Chinese think SEARS made them....BOB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16242	From: jde_can	Date: 12/30/2001
Subject: Re Phasing Transformers 2 ;

Hi all Yeah Chris is right in what he says in referance to Block tracking ! I was refering to the Phasing of 2 transformers together to boost your power to your track [ like if you wired a 150 watts to a 50 watts] you would only have 100 watts of true power ] as the fifty can not be increased to the higher power watts. the best suggestion I would say is to read Greenburgs Wiring on phasing Transformers as he is an expert in this field . Oh Yeah Chris [I want to thank you for the Advice on getting a refund from the Post office] as you said stick to your guns re insurance for damaged goods Well I did what you said and they did compensate my 100.00 CDN from the CDN Post [although it took 6 months aye! but thank's again chris <jde> John Denholm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16243	From: robbe_wan	Date: 12/30/2001
Subject: Re: Re Phasing Transformers 2 ;

I doubt that Greenburg believes that: 150 watts + 50 watts = 100 watts > I was refering to the Phasing of 2 transformers > together to boost your power to your track [ like > if you wired a 150 watts to a 50 watts] you would only have > 100 watts of true power ] as the fifty can not be increased > to the higher power watts. > > the best suggestion I would > say is to read Greenburgs Wiring on phasing Transformers > as he is an expert in this field . >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16244	From: rfgiardina	Date: 12/30/2001
Subject: Re: AF tender truck rivet bushings

There is more than one source of repro parts. We make the bushings from the original style fiber material. It's called vulcanized fiber. The Gilbert originals were made by Franklin Fibre, we buy our material from them and make the bushings ourselves. The "cinch" of the rivet can be controlled. Gilbert used a rivet press, that had a controlled and even pressure. It caused the cinch to be tighter than what you can get by using a hand riveting roll tool. Bob RFG --- In S-Trains@y..., "David Dewey" <djdewey@c...> wrote: > What I don't like about the repro parts is the "fiber" washers are now made > of plastic, and don't like the high heat required to get the steel rivets to > accept the solder. I have learned to quench the plastic part right after > soldering. Two solutions to this; 1) make the bushings out of fiber, 2) make > the rivets out of brass! (or at least copper plate them) > S' > David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16245	From: Michael Christensen	Date: 12/30/2001
Subject: Re: New Lionel Flyer Stuff

I was really disappointed on Christmas morning when I opened my Lionel AF Sawmill....some assembly required although not mentioned on the box...more complicated than anything I had to put together for my grandchildren! Felt even worse the next day when I stopped at the train store to see the MTH Railking version. My goodness this one is fully assembled, and has a flyer type operating button (rather than a tiny Lionel one)...what a concept. Now a Searboard Coaler??? Lionel will soon have the distinction of making the AF Pikemaster products look like state-of-the-art by comparison. --- Chris Zizzo <busyboy@...> wrote: > Hi: > This is a cross post to two lists. > > I picked up my New Lionel flyer items at Nassau > Hobby today. Charlie had > them all laid out for me. I didn't take the Gabe > because I didn't order it. > I have the MTH version and just don't need two. I > also gave back the > Christmas car. I never buy Christmas cars. He was > happy because he has > guys lined up for both. (I guess he assumed I > wanted ALL the new Flyer when > it came in.) Demand for both items is causing a > sellout. > > I have not broken the seal on the Seaboard Coaler. > I thought I'd like to > enjoy having an MIB item around for a little while. > When I get tired of > owning a cardboard box, I'll slice the tape and go > in. What I will find is > the "Searboard Coaler". Geez. I complain about the > spelling on these > lists, but an error like that right on the box is > inexcusable. Wanna know > why you don't have the coal tipple in your hot > little hands? It's because > the box says "Coal Nipple" and ladies working > overtime are putting sticker > replacement labels over the mistake. And what's > with the $175 price on the > log loader from MTH? The coal loader was $75. Is > there another 100 bucks > built into the thing that I don't see? > > The four freight cars look good, with new packaging > that protects them in > their boxes by suspending the car in two halves of a > clear plastic bubble. > > New Flyer toys. Life is grand. God is good. I am > free. > > Rant over, > Chris Zizzo > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: > http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories > too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16246	From: Michael Christensen	Date: 12/30/2001
Subject: Re: New Lionel Flyer Stuff

If anyone wants to purchase a never out of the box Lionel versionb of the AF sawmill please contact me off list at kite1@.... Michael --- Michael Christensen <semaphoresam@...> wrote: > I was really disappointed on Christmas morning when > I > opened my Lionel AF Sawmill....some assembly > required > although not mentioned on the box...more complicated > than anything I had to put together for my > grandchildren! Felt even worse the next day when I > stopped at the train store to see the MTH Railking > version. My goodness this one is fully assembled, > and > has a flyer type operating button (rather than a > tiny > Lionel one)...what a concept. > Now a Searboard Coaler??? > Lionel will soon have the distinction of making the > AF > Pikemaster products look like state-of-the-art by > comparison. > --- Chris Zizzo <busyboy@...> wrote: > > Hi: > > This is a cross post to two lists. > > > > I picked up my New Lionel flyer items at Nassau > > Hobby today. Charlie had > > them all laid out for me. I didn't take the Gabe > > because I didn't order it. > > I have the MTH version and just don't need two. I > > also gave back the > > Christmas car. I never buy Christmas cars. He > was > > happy because he has > > guys lined up for both. (I guess he assumed I > > wanted ALL the new Flyer when > > it came in.) Demand for both items is causing a > > sellout. > > > > I have not broken the seal on the Seaboard Coaler. > > > I thought I'd like to > > enjoy having an MIB item around for a little > while. > > When I get tired of > > owning a cardboard box, I'll slice the tape and go > > in. What I will find is > > the "Searboard Coaler". Geez. I complain about > the > > spelling on these > > lists, but an error like that right on the box is > > inexcusable. Wanna know > > why you don't have the coal tipple in your hot > > little hands? It's because > > the box says "Coal Nipple" and ladies working > > overtime are putting sticker > > replacement labels over the mistake. And what's > > with the $175 price on the > > log loader from MTH? The coal loader was $75. Is > > there another 100 bucks > > built into the thing that I don't see? > > > > The four freight cars look good, with new > packaging > > that protects them in > > their boxes by suspending the car in two halves of > a > > clear plastic bubble. > > > > New Flyer toys. Life is grand. God is good. I > am > > free. > > > > Rant over, > > Chris Zizzo > > > > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: > > http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories > > too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send your FREE holiday greetings online! > http://greetings.yahoo.com > > S-Trains list sponsor: > http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories > too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16247	From: notcoldenough	Date: 12/30/2001
Subject: Re Phasing Transformers 2

John Denholm wrote: I was refering to the Phasing of 2 transformers > together to boost your power to your track [ like > if you wired a 150 watts to a 50 watts] you would only have > 100 watts of true power ] as the fifty can not be increased > to the higher power watts. This is correct (100w output) if the secondaries of two transformers are wired in series (ie base post of one connected to 16 volt post of the other to give 32 volts). The smaller transformer sets the current limit that the two in series can draw. While not relevant to this answer, I was wondering how many feet would the operating milk car throw a milk can on 32 volts! If transformers are operated in parallel things get messier. If the voltages are different, a circulating current flows between the two transformers. This results in the output voltage being somewhere between the voltage of the two units. This circulating current can be quite high if the voltages are very different and is why you don't want to parallel the variable terminals. Interesting enough, this happens on a two block / two transformer layout every time the engine crosses the between the blocks and temporarily ties the variable posts of the two transformers together. You can parallel transformers of even different wattages assuming the voltage is matched. The wattage output of parallel units is dependent on how well the two transformers share the load. This depends on the impedance of each transformer relative to its wattage. So it would be possible to parallel a 50 watt and 300 watt transformer to get 350 watts if their impedance is matched. If their impedance is not matched, then the wattage would be derated. Electric utilities (I work for one) fequently parallel transformers, but they have the advantage of computer models and know what the transformer characteristics are. My advice - don't parallel if you can help it. If you do, only parallel the fixed posts and use identical transformers. Gotta run now to see how far those milk cans go on 32 volts! John Gasal

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16248	From: ROBERT ALLEN CONNER NCARB ARCHITECT	Date: 12/30/2001
Subject: 752 seaRboard coaler

Clear Day Just went and looked at mine!!!!!! Can't find the " cold nipple ".....But mine says " 752 searboard coaler !!! "....Guess the Chinese think SEARS made them....BOB [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16249	From: robbe_wan	Date: 12/30/2001
Subject: Re: New Lionel Flyer Stuff

It has been a while, but I don't remember any major assembly with my new Flyonel saw mill. What did you have to put together? I was missing the boards and log though.... --- In S-Trains@y..., Michael Christensen <semaphoresam@y...> wrote: > I was really disappointed on Christmas morning when I > opened my Lionel AF Sawmill....some assembly required > although not mentioned on the box...more complicated > than anything I had to put together for my > grandchildren! Felt even worse the next day when I > stopped at the train store to see the MTH Railking > version. My goodness this one is fully assembled, and > has a flyer type operating button (rather than a tiny > Lionel one)...what a concept. > Now a Searboard Coaler??? > Lionel will soon have the distinction of making the AF > Pikemaster products look like state-of-the-art by > comparison. > --- Chris Zizzo <busyboy@o...> wrote: > > Hi: > > This is a cross post to two lists. > > > > I picked up my New Lionel flyer items at Nassau > > Hobby today. Charlie had > > them all laid out for me. I didn't take the Gabe > > because I didn't order it. > > I have the MTH version and just don't need two. I > > also gave back the > > Christmas car. I never buy Christmas cars. He was > > happy because he has > > guys lined up for both. (I guess he assumed I > > wanted ALL the new Flyer when > > it came in.) Demand for both items is causing a > > sellout. > > > > I have not broken the seal on the Seaboard Coaler. > > I thought I'd like to > > enjoy having an MIB item around for a little while. > > When I get tired of > > owning a cardboard box, I'll slice the tape and go > > in. What I will find is > > the "Searboard Coaler". Geez. I complain about the > > spelling on these > > lists, but an error like that right on the box is > > inexcusable. Wanna know > > why you don't have the coal tipple in your hot > > little hands? It's because > > the box says "Coal Nipple" and ladies working > > overtime are putting sticker > > replacement labels over the mistake. And what's > > with the $175 price on the > > log loader from MTH? The coal loader was $75. Is > > there another 100 bucks > > built into the thing that I don't see? > > > > The four freight cars look good, with new packaging > > that protects them in > > their boxes by suspending the car in two halves of a > > clear plastic bubble. > > > > New Flyer toys. Life is grand. God is good. I am > > free. > > > > Rant over, > > Chris Zizzo > > > > > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: > > http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories > > too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to > > s-trains-unsubscribe@Y... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send your FREE holiday greetings online! > http://greetings.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16250	From: HOGHEADHAT@AOL.COM	Date: 12/30/2001
Subject: hoghead hatwear

Happy New Year! Wishing you all clear tracks ahead and high greens. We have come out with some new designs. Please take $2 off all hats. http://cencalrails.railfan.net/hoghead.html highball the rollbye! The only RR logo hats made in the USA. Some of the apparel is made in the US. Send mailing address for flyers. Best regards, Kent Kahle hoghead hatwear "A Promise of Performance in every hat we make".

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16251	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 12/30/2001
Subject: Re: AF tender truck rivet bushings

Tom, I'm not trying to give you any instruction as I'm sure you have much more experience at AF repairs than me, but I haven't had that problem replacing rivets. It could be that I was taught a long time ago by my father the proper way to set rivets. Of course, at the time I didn't think much of the importance of what he was teaching me for the job he had me doing. He even made a couple of tools (anvil and punches) that greatly aid in the task, which I still have. The anvil was made from a piece of round bar stock with various size depressions milled into the top. The punches were made to evenly roll the opposite rivet end. The closest thing I've seen to these are roll pin punches used to drive in hardened roll pins without damage. You can get these from most tool suppliers like MSC, Enco, J&L, etc. or from Brownell's gunsmithing catalog. For those of you who don't know about Brownell's, they are a great source for some quality tools and supplies. I think the Brakeman's riveter set (of course available from Port Lines) does this job slightly more efficiently for small rivets since you don't need a hammer. One thing my father did tell me, although I always don't use the advice, is that the correct way to set rivets is to have a metal washer or some other hard material (not fiber washer) under the end that is peened over. This aids in getting a smoother set and prevents the rough edges from cutting through softer materials eventually. Here's one other trick he showed me when using solid rivets as opposed to tubular ones. Center punch the end first and then use the round end of a small ball peen hammer to start and tap around the circumference of the rivet, hitting harder as you go. Switch to the flat end as the rivet starts to mushroom. Or use a small drill bit and drill a hole a short depth in the center and make it into a thick walled tubular style rivet. Hopes this helps you some. Roger Petrella Franktown, CO jarcho@... wrote: > I recently discovered that at least 6 of my Flyer steam locos needed > replacement of the fiber bushings that iinsulate the tender truck rivets > from the tender floors. > > Some of these bushings were broken and some had just shrunk. This causes > the tender to rock too much, causing excessive sparking from the pickup > wheels and unwanted reverse unit cycling. If the bushing breaks, short > circuits occur. The truck may be pulled out of its correct position. > > I find broken bushings most often on the front tender truck of locos whose > drawbars run between the loco chassis and the front tender truck. The > whole weight of any train such a loco pulls is transmitted through this > bushing. > > I have some original AF replacement bushings, and those show signs of > shrinkage too! > > What bugs me about this is the replacement bushings and rivets available > from parts dealers. They seem to be the same size and width as the > originals, yet it is always necessary to use a washer under the head of the > rivet to get a decently tight fit. > > I just cannot figure out why this happens. Anyone else have a similar > problem with these replacement parts? Any comments on this repair in > general? > > Tom Jarcho > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16252	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 12/30/2001
Subject: Re: AF tender truck rivet bushings

Dave, I've always had a problem with melting things when soldering. Recently, I built myself a resistance soldering unit (couldn't afford to pay the cost of commercial units). Wow, what a difference! I can solder the wires to trucks, etc. in a fraction of the time and have hardly melted anything. Got the idea from reading about guys soldering brass locos together where soldering on a new part close to a previously soldered joint doesn't even affect it. Try one. Roger Petrella Franktown, CO David Dewey wrote: > What I don't like about the repro parts is the "fiber" washers are now made > of plastic, and don't like the high heat required to get the steel rivets to > accept the solder. I have learned to quench the plastic part right after > soldering. Two solutions to this; 1) make the bushings out of fiber, 2) make > the rivets out of brass! (or at least copper plate them) > S' > David D. > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16253	From: DoUg	Date: 12/30/2001
Subject: train shows

Does anyone know the train show schedule for the Gilbertsville firehouse in Eastern PA? Thanks, Doug

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16254	From: TCS	Date: 12/30/2001
Subject: If anyone was having trouble...............

If anyone was having trouble seeing all the new sets I have release in the last 2 years, seems like Tripod.com deleted my second account with them for a unknown reason. So everything is now working again, as everything has been uploaded in my first account. So if you see any dead links, please tell me an I'll fix em asap. Now if you don't see anything listed that you want, it means I don't have it. So please don't email me and ask if I have a certain decal. Oh the joys of free web hosting................ --- --- Tom Stolte - Oddballs Decals N, HO, S & O Scale Model Railroad Decals 26550 227th Street; McLouth, Kansas 66054 Phone: 913-727-6649 - oddballdecal@... Web site http://www.oddballsdecals.com/ Subscribe: OddballsDecals-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Missouri Pacific Photos Web Page: http://www.trainweb.org/mopac/ NMRA Member #121756 Subscribe: MOPAC-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16255	From: WJJIM@aol.com	Date: 12/30/2001
Subject: Re: AF 24720 info

The story goes that the Gilbert rep stopped to see Ed Alexander as he did frequently and Ed was working on the 4-4-0 with materials at hand. Ed, was of course, one of the two men credited with founding TCA in 1954, so the mfg's were interested in them. The rep reported the sighting to the factory and the factory "borrowed" the finished model to copy. The story is anecdotal, at best, but the most frequently told one. Jim Lyle [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16256	From: Dan Brindell	Date: 12/30/2001
Subject: Re: train shows

Try this link: http://www.trainfinder.com/trainshows/results.asp?action=newSearch&state=Pen nsylvania&dest=TrainShows Dan B. ----- Original Message ----- From: "DoUg" <reefman@...> To: "S-Trains (E-mail)" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com>; <strains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 9:30 PM Subject: [S-Trains] train shows > Does anyone know the train show schedule for the Gilbertsville firehouse in > Eastern PA? > Thanks, > Doug > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16257	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/30/2001
Subject: Re: AF tender truck rivet bushings

Hi Roger, What is a resistance soldering unit and how did you build yours? Thanks, Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger V. Petrella Jr." <rogerpjr@...> To: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> Cc: <S-trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 5:33 PM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] AF tender truck rivet bushings > Dave, > > I've always had a problem with melting things when soldering. Recently, I built > myself a resistance soldering unit (couldn't afford to pay the cost of commercial > units). Wow, what a difference! I can solder the wires to trucks, etc. in a > fraction of the time and have hardly melted anything. Got the idea from reading > about guys soldering brass locos together where soldering on a new part close to a > previously soldered joint doesn't even affect it. Try one. > > Roger Petrella > Franktown, CO > > > David Dewey wrote: > > > What I don't like about the repro parts is the "fiber" washers are now made > > of plastic, and don't like the high heat required to get the steel rivets to > > accept the solder. I have learned to quench the plastic part right after > > soldering. Two solutions to this; 1) make the bushings out of fiber, 2) make > > the rivets out of brass! (or at least copper plate them) > > S' > > David D. > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16258	From: The Reis's	Date: 12/30/2001
Subject: Thinning out some S helper Rollingstock

I thought I would offer these here prior to listing on Ebay. These are like new in the original boxes with packing, paper, and both wheelsets. (EXCEPT SP PS2) 00180 TOFC ROCK ISLAND W/RI TRAILER $50 00189 TOFC NEW HAVEN W/NH TRAILER $50 00303-8 TOFC CANADIAN PACIFIC W/SPEEDWAY TRAILER $50 00264-2 TRV B AND M TRAILER ONLY $10 00197 BAR 35’ HOR CORR TRAILER ONLY $10 00328-1 TRH D & RGW TRAILER ONLY $10 00000? REA EXPRESS SILVER TRAILER ONLY $10 00039-9 PS2 CHICAGO NORTHWESTERN GREEN $30 00000? PS2 SOUTHERN PACIFIC (401431) (trucks brown and not original, AM?) $20 000231 CABOOSE D&RGW YELLOW/BLACK $50 FIGURE SHIPPING $3 FOR ONE (OR 2 TRAILERS) AND $5 FOR 2 OR MORE. Or make an offer !!! Thanks Eric Reis Kenmore, Wa. In the beautifully sunny Pacific Northwest. (at least this week) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16259	From: alsflyer	Date: 12/31/2001
Subject: S Gauge Herald repair/build

I remember Paul Yorke saying he had posted the S Gauge Heralds somewhere but I cannot find them. Anyone know the address to look them up? Thanks in advance. Al Rawdon Golden Spike American Flyer Club

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16260	From: srgriggs	Date: 12/31/2001
Subject: Can someone post a review of the new Flyonel 752?

How about an operating review of the new seaboard coal loader? How does it compare with the MTH 785 in looks and performance (as well as the Gilbert original)? Surely someone out there will get out the X-acto knife and open their box. Scott

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16261	From: SMASTER636@aol.com	Date: 12/31/2001
Subject: AF Caboose

I have an AF 977 Caboose that I am looking to take apart and service. I cannot get the four corner rivets out to get into the caboose. Any suggestions? Joe Fariello Cooper City, FL. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16262	From: TWesthelle@aol.com	Date: 12/31/2001
Subject: Touch Up paints for AF Rollingstock

I have heard mention of touchup paints here and there, and am curious if anyone here either has found a peticular brand that both matches, color and finish. Someone here mentioned a while ago, Krylon 1613 for the black color and yes that does a nice finish match to the black used on engines. If anyone has any information, or has found any products that work, I would most certainly appreciate that, as Im sure many on the list will also. Thanks again and to all a Very Happy and Safe New Year. Tom Westhelle Oviedo, FL 32765

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16263	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/31/2001
Subject: Re: Touch Up paints for AF Rollingstock

Hi Tom, Boy, I second that request! It would be nice if there was a chart showing common sources for the basic (at least) Flyer colors. I just can't find anyone who knows what color paint they sell thoroughly enough. Has anyone out there done any cross-referencing like this? Happy New Year, Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: <TWesthelle@...> To: "S Trains" <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, December 31, 2001 11:25 AM Subject: [S-Trains] Touch Up paints for AF Rollingstock > I have heard mention of touchup paints here and there, and am curious if > anyone here either has found a peticular brand that both matches, color and > finish. > Someone here mentioned a while ago, Krylon 1613 for the black color and yes > that does a nice finish match to the black used on engines. > If anyone has any information, or has found any products that work, I would > most certainly appreciate that, as Im sure many on the list will also. > Thanks again and to all a Very Happy and Safe New Year. > Tom Westhelle > Oviedo, FL 32765 > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16264	From: rbubeck327@aol.com	Date: 12/31/2001
Subject: Re: AF Caboose

In a message dated 12/31/01 10:33:57 AM Eastern Standard Time, SMASTER636@... writes: << I have an AF 977 Caboose that I am looking to take apart and service. I cannot get the four corner rivets out to get into the caboose. Any suggestions? Joe Fariello Cooper City, FL. >> Joe: Carefully heat each rivet head (in turn) with a small soldering iron and then pull it with a pare of point nose pliers. Don't over heat the rivet for the obvious reason. If you can, I suggest that you first practice on a piece of rolling stock that you do not care about too much. Hope this helps. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16265	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/31/2001
Subject: Re: AF Caboose

Joe, In my first Dispatch column (unabashed commercialism here) I mentioned my favorite system. Take a small soldering iron/gun, touch it to the head of the floor pin. At the same time, with the other hand (that is probably holding the car), push the truck away from the body, providing release pressure on the pin. As soon as it moves, remove the iron and go to the next pin. I insert pins the opposite way, pushing them in with a warm iron. I believe this way they "melt" their way into the plastic, reducing the stress on the now-aged brittle plastic. Before pushing them in, I try to set them into the original grooves they made in the plastic. This is a touch-feel process that you pick up after doing it a few times--just like starting the body screws back into their original threads. Patience is a virtue when re-assembling AF stuff! S' David D. BTW, getting the body off the action brakeman is a challenge too!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16266	From: wmhtreftsv@juno.com	Date: 12/31/2001
Subject: Ouch!!! Real Virus Warning "lavalamp"

Greetings, again. Well, after being infected on Dec. 12, I've finally caught up on the S-Trains digests and am almost back in action. Juno email is back, but I'm having trouble getting MSN web started again. The Virus: I was emailed something about a Lavalamp. My grandson wanted one for Christmas so I mailed it to my MSN email, then tried to click through to the site. All heck then broke loose. A window popped up extolling that "You Think You're God?" "You're Nothing but a big hunk of sh**" I closed that window, tried to print my email address book, couldn't do that, shut the computer down and that was all she wrote. Well, the hard drive was infected as well as startup files so the harddrive is now reformatted, and the startup files re-written. (Windows still isn't closing correctly though. It keeps rebooting.) I sincerely hope this did not get passed on to any of you on the list. Or anywhere else. Happy New Year!!! Bill Trefts ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16267	From: Scott Holm	Date: 12/31/2001
Subject: Re: Touch Up paints for AF Rollingstock

A long time ago I asked the same thing and offered to compile the responses. Apparently there are no matches that anybody is confident of, since no responses came in. One thing to point out about Krylon 1613 is that it isn't really a match for Flyer locomotive black, but a good one to use for a complete repaint. I think somebody pointed out that it was closer to Lionel's black. Here are some links to messages in the s-trains archive about paint matches: touch up paint for a locomotive: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/message/13289 Heavyweight green and red: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/message/12085 circus red: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/message/13311 List of paints needed for a coal loader restore which includes tape body, red supports, green base, amd red roof: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/message/6832 Was told also that Testor's silver, covered with Testor's semi-gloss is a match for Flyer's aluminum. Try to avoid "Train Enamel" as it dries too slowly and isn't a good match. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16268	From: trzp1800	Date: 12/31/2001
Subject: Activating signal crossings and block signals

Well, i've just finished searching all the way back to post number 5 for this one, and don't feel like i understand it yet, so here's my post. I'd like to activate a K-line twin block signal bridge and an AF block signal using some sort of train activated device. Can't use "block" switching because they are going on a club "modular" layout and we don't use blocks. I'll break down and spend the $20 for a MTH IR device if that's the best way to do it, but... would rather spend $5. Also, i have a bunch of Lemax crossing signals that i would like to use. They run on 3V DC and have a little relay circuit built into the battery case to make the lights flash in an alternating way. Plan to use a 3volt transformer to run all these little signals. Anyway to activate these so they will run just when the train is going by instead of all the time? I will be using about 5 pairs of these so the MTH or Lionel IR devices start to add up if i use these for the four modules i have made to use at club events. Are there any books on wiring AF stuff like the ones i've found for HO/DC and Lionel? I have Faust's little book but i need more. Thanks to all for the discussions on phasing transformers, track trips and other electrical topics. High school electronics was a long time ago. Regards, Ted

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16269	From: jarcho@rcn.com	Date: 12/31/2001
Subject: DC common rail

Two different types of DC common rail circuits are shown in The Electrical Handbook for Model Railroaders (New York, Simmons-Boardman, 1955), starting on p. 63. A DC common rail system is shown to reduce the number of gaps which must be cut in the rails , and the numbers of wires to the tracks that are required. A safety advantage is claimed because one rail is grounded. (But perhaps this is a relict of the days when car batteries were the principal source of power for model railroads.) It requires either a multiple power supply or a double power supply. These are the two systems shown. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16270	From: robbe_wan	Date: 12/31/2001
Subject: Re: Touch Up paints for AF Rollingstock

What about the paint listed at Portlines? One for satin black is listed as well as other colors for rolling stock and assys. --- In S-Trains@y..., Scott Holm <imsscott@y...> wrote: > A long time ago I asked the same thing and offered to compile the > responses. Apparently there are no matches that anybody is confident > of, since no responses came in. One thing to point out about Krylon > 1613 is that it isn't really a match for Flyer locomotive black, but a > good one to use for a complete repaint. I think somebody pointed out > that it was closer to Lionel's black. > > Here are some links to messages in the s-trains archive about paint > matches: > > touch up paint for a locomotive: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/message/13289 > > Heavyweight green and red: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/message/12085 > > circus red: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/message/13311 > > List of paints needed for a coal loader restore which includes tape > body, red supports, green base, amd red roof: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Trains/message/6832 > > Was told also that Testor's silver, covered with Testor's semi- gloss is > a match for Flyer's aluminum. > > Try to avoid "Train Enamel" as it dries too slowly and isn't a good > match. > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send your FREE holiday greetings online! > http://greetings.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16271	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 12/31/2001
Subject: PAINT

I have found that MODEL brand a water based paint Engine Black is an exact match for AF engine black....I don't have the # I got a bit sloppy and there is paint on the #.......Mike S. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16272	From: Bill Lane	Date: 12/31/2001
Subject: Pennsy S Models new X29 pilot model photo

Hi Everyone, As we close out the year 2001, I thought I would give a short update on the project. Dan and I would like to thank everyone for their continued support of our S Scale X-29 project. Once again, while we have been quiet lately, we have been continually working to bring you the high quality X-29 we promised we would. If you have not given us a deposit yet, we can still accommodate you. We are building the Railway Express version first, which will be followed by the freight versions. Please visit www.pennsysmodels.com for more information and an order form. Here is a photo of the second generation pilot model that I just received from our builder this morning. http://users.snip.net/~billlane/X29pilotmodel.jpg It is still a work in progress, however, I was VERY impressed. I think you will be too. The punched rivets are much improved over the first pilot model. Thank You, Bill Lane Dan Mastrobuono Pennsy S Models

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16273	From: anormal1@aol.com	Date: 12/31/2001
Subject: PAINT

I have found that MODEL brand a water based paint Engine Black is an exact match for AF engine black....I do not know if it comes in a spray form....Mike S. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16274	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 12/31/2001
Subject: Homemade choo choo cam Sale Ends Today... NOT AN ADVERTISEMENT!

Hello Folks, After on live S Chat last night, and the enjoyment from Carl's home made choo choo cam, I went to the x10 camera site and found that they have a pretty good sale going on that ends tonight at midnight. This is the link to Carl's web site that shows the installation of the camera on a flatcar http://list.wsbt.com/af/traincam/train_cam.htm This is the link to see and purchase the camera. It is $15 off. Sale ends midnight New Years Eve, it says... http://www.x10.com/products/x10_vk45a_av.htm I have mine on order, my wife is making it a present for our upcoming anniversary...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16275	From: bull_gator_1	Date: 12/31/2001
Subject: Paint

The Good News: I was surfing the Web and came across a website that sold touch-up paint specially mixed to match American Flyer accessories and rolling stock. The Bad News: I did not bookmark the site and have not been able to find it since. I've tried several search engines, but no luck yet. I'll continue searching for this site as I have a bunch of accessories I would like to touch-up. I'll post the site once I find it, unless someone else can help us all out and post it here. BG1

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16276	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 12/31/2001
Subject: Re: AF tender truck rivet bushings

Since I've gotten several requests for info on the resistance soldering, I thought I'd post the reply I sent one person. I made my carbon rod probe from parts off a Radio Shack soldering iron and a carbon rod. Carbon rods are readily available from welding supply places. My tweezers type probe uses 1/8" round stainless steel (also from welding supply shop) for probe tips. The wires to both were 16-3, black rubber jacket extension cord wire from the hardware store. I joined all three wires together so it could carry a heavier load, but it probably wasn't necessary. You have to experiment with the settings to get enough output wattage to quickly heat the parts without overheating things. I've turned a couple things almost white hot at the point of contact - just a little too hot to solder! One thing you will want to purchase is one of those momentary on foot pedals sold for scroll saws and other power tools. (You can also make one of these with little effort and a few parts) That way you can have your probes in contact with the material before applying power and you avoid the big scary spark you get if you were just moving the powered probe to the work. If you can't find the sources, I can make you copies of the magazine articles I have and mail them for the postage costs. Contact me off list if you need more info. > Basically, the unit is a variable transformer that outputs to a large tweezer > like device or a carbon or SS rod. It generates a LOT of heat at at very small > point in seconds. Do a web search (Google.com works good) for "resistance > soldering". There's lots of info on building, buying and using them. P-B-L, > Allied Electronics and Micromark all sell real good units. Just be sure to have > a good hold on your seat when you see the prices. PBL has a real good line of > solders and fluxes as well as lots of other model train items. Mine is based > on an old Boeing surplus Wassco Mfg. unit I got from a guy in WA. I made the > probes myself. If you want to build one, let me know and I'll tell you how to > make the probes. Don't know, but I bet an old AF 12B transformer core might > work for the supply. You couldn't use the actual transformer as you are > basically causing a short circuit and it would trip the breaker in the > transformer. My unit is rated for 500 watts and I normally use it at about 1/2 > - 2/3 setting. The one thing to remember when building or buying one is to get > bigger than you think you will need. You can always turn the output wattage > down, but can't get more than your unit will produce. Roger Petrella Franktown, CO

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16277	From: Jim Carnes	Date: 12/31/2001
Subject: Re: Paint

Try: http://www.trainenamel.com This may be the site you were at. Jim C. bull_gator_1 wrote: > The Good News: I was surfing the Web and came across a website that > sold touch-up paint specially mixed to match American Flyer > accessories and rolling stock. > > The Bad News: I did not bookmark the site and have not been able to > find it since. I've tried several search engines, but no luck yet. > > I'll continue searching for this site as I have a bunch of > accessories I would like to touch-up. I'll post the site once I find > it, unless someone else can help us all out and post it here. > > BG1 > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16278	From: Nick and Becky Colleran	Date: 12/31/2001
Subject: Re: Digest Number 1262

I have successfully mounted the X10 camera in the nose of a dummy PA using a Flyonel plastic B unit chassis (which has a convenient switch mounting hole). The shell is an old worn Silver Streak. I plan to power a matching B Unit. Next I am going to attempt mounting the system in an observation car. It looks better watching from the end of the train to me. X10 often runs a sale where you can get the camera, receiver and battery pack for $80. A battery holder from Radio Shack and a switch finish the job. The X10 has not quite as sharp an image as some of the really pricey cameras but, to me, it makes the layout look better, something like film vs. videotape in commercial production. That's my .02 for the year! --- Nick >________________________________________________________________________ >________________________________________________________________________ > >Message: 17 > Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 14:54:26 -0500 > From: Chuck Harrington <myflyertrains@...> >Subject: Homemade choo choo cam Sale Ends Today... NOT AN ADVERTISEMENT! > >Hello Folks, > >After on live S Chat last night, and the enjoyment from Carl's home made >choo choo cam, I went to the x10 camera site and found that they have a >pretty good sale going on that ends tonight at midnight. > >This is the link to Carl's web site that shows the installation of the >camera on a flatcar >http://list.wsbt.com/af/traincam/train_cam.htm > >This is the link to see and purchase the camera. It is $15 off. Sale >ends midnight New Years Eve, it says... >http://www.x10.com/products/x10_vk45a_av.htm > >I have mine on order, my wife is making it a present for our upcoming >anniversary... >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16279	From: Tim Brown	Date: 12/31/2001
Subject: Re: Paint

Hi Jim, I have that site bookmarked. The problem I have in ordering paint online from anyone is that I don't know what color to specify. For example, I want to repaint a #740 handcar. So, from the Train Enamel site, do I order #375 Orange, #17410 Hiawatha Orange, or #4644 Orange? They don't have a description to distinguish between the orange choices. If there was a little swatch beside the paint color at the online site, I could maybe get it closer. Maybe instead of trying to order paint online, I should just call one of our suppliers. Any suggestions? Happy New Year! Tim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Carnes" <jcarnes@...> To: "bull_gator_1" <bull_gator_1@...> Cc: <S-Trains@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Monday, December 31, 2001 6:55 PM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Paint > Try: > http://www.trainenamel.com > This may be the site you were at. > Jim C. > > bull_gator_1 wrote: > > > The Good News: I was surfing the Web and came across a website that > > sold touch-up paint specially mixed to match American Flyer > > accessories and rolling stock. > > > > The Bad News: I did not bookmark the site and have not been able to > > find it since. I've tried several search engines, but no luck yet. > > > > I'll continue searching for this site as I have a bunch of > > accessories I would like to touch-up. I'll post the site once I find > > it, unless someone else can help us all out and post it here. > > > > BG1 > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > S-Trains list sponsor: http://www.americanflyertrains.com > All the "Flyer" you desire...books and accessories too! > > To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list send a note to s-trains-unsubscribe@... > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 16280	From: Ms. Judy Messinger	Date: 12/31/2001
Subject: HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!

Just wanted to see if I could be the first to send something to the S- List in 2002. It's now 12:20 a.m. E.S.T. Went out in the back yard, fired my shotgun in the air at midnight (we live out in the country here in West Va.. Don't guess that would be a good idea if you live in L.A?) came in the house (we still have electricity and phone). Didn't shoot down any utility lines.) and fired up the computer. Happy New Year to all. Thanks for all the great "S" stuff this past year. May this New Year bring good things to everyone. Joe Messinger [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]