Messages in S-Trains group. Page 1 of 1.

Group: S-Trains Message: 1 From: Paul Yorke Date: 9/26/1998
Subject: First new message on S-Trains 'onelist'
Group: S-Trains Message: 2 From: Roger Hinds Date: 9/26/1998
Subject: Re: You have been added to S-Trains@onelist.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 3 From: esquivel Date: 9/26/1998
Subject: talking station
Group: S-Trains Message: 4 From: Ken Zieska Date: 9/26/1998
Subject: S Test
Group: S-Trains Message: 5 From: David Dewey Date: 9/26/1998
Subject: List test; track trips
Group: S-Trains Message: 6 From: Alex Binkley Date: 9/27/1998
Subject: military vehicles
Group: S-Trains Message: 7 From: Paul Yorke Date: 9/27/1998
Subject: New List
Group: S-Trains Message: 8 From: Chuck Smith Date: 9/27/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 0
Group: S-Trains Message: 9 From: PortLines@xxx.xxx Date: 9/27/1998
Subject: Re: New Tooling
Group: S-Trains Message: 10 From: kelvin white Date: 9/27/1998
Subject: Replies and M&StL hoppers
Group: S-Trains Message: 11 From: PortLines@xxx.xxx Date: 9/27/1998
Subject: Re: AF can motor transplants
Group: S-Trains Message: 12 From: Donald E. Munsey, Jr. Date: 9/28/1998
Subject: Re: AF can motor transplants
Group: S-Trains Message: 13 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 9/28/1998
Subject: 302AC on a 303
Group: S-Trains Message: 14 From: Richard Snook Date: 9/28/1998
Subject: Proto: 64
Group: S-Trains Message: 15 From: Richard Snook Date: 9/28/1998
Subject: Modern era
Group: S-Trains Message: 16 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 9/29/1998
Subject: BAAFC
Group: S-Trains Message: 17 From: Mark Preman Date: 9/29/1998
Subject: American Flyer Trains for Sale-October List
Group: S-Trains Message: 18 From: Bill & Diane Wade Date: 9/29/1998
Subject: Cleaning Out Sale
Group: S-Trains Message: 19 From: Richard Snook Date: 9/29/1998
Subject: PROTO:64
Group: S-Trains Message: 20 From: Richard Snook Date: 9/29/1998
Subject: PROTO:64 postscript
Group: S-Trains Message: 21 From: Arthur Armstrong Date: 9/29/1998
Subject: Re: PROTO:64
Group: S-Trains Message: 22 From: Hilary Smith Date: 9/30/1998
Subject: Re: PROTO:64
Group: S-Trains Message: 23 From: Alex Binkley Date: 9/30/1998
Subject: can help
Group: S-Trains Message: 24 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 9/30/1998
Subject: lack of choo-choo
Group: S-Trains Message: 25 From: Bill Porter Date: 9/30/1998
Subject: S-Trains Proto 64
Group: S-Trains Message: 26 From: thompson@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxx Date: 9/30/1998
Subject: PROTO:64
Group: S-Trains Message: 27 From: David Dewey Date: 9/30/1998
Subject: Re: PROTO:64 postscript
Group: S-Trains Message: 28 From: David Dewey Date: 9/30/1998
Subject: Re: lack of choo-choo
Group: S-Trains Message: 29 From: David Dewey Date: 9/30/1998
Subject: Re: can help
Group: S-Trains Message: 30 From: aleisen@xxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) Date: 9/30/1998
Subject: Dremel Lathe
Group: S-Trains Message: 31 From: kelvin white Date: 9/30/1998
Subject: Alligators wanted. Raid the toy box!
Group: S-Trains Message: 32 From: kelvin white Date: 9/30/1998
Subject: 1990s modelling & P64
Group: S-Trains Message: 33 From: Boul, Lawrence Date: 9/30/1998
Subject: Re: Proto64
Group: S-Trains Message: 34 From: Paul Yorke Date: 9/30/1998
Subject: Proto 64
Group: S-Trains Message: 35 From: Bilfrazier@xxx.xxx Date: 9/30/1998
Subject: Re: Atlantic shells
Group: S-Trains Message: 36 From: Richard Snook Date: 9/30/1998
Subject: FW: [S-Trains] S-Trains Proto 64
Group: S-Trains Message: 37 From: Richard Snook Date: 9/30/1998
Subject: Tie Plates
Group: S-Trains Message: 38 From: Russcalla@aol.com Date: 9/30/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 2
Group: S-Trains Message: 39 From: Ken Zieska Date: 9/30/1998
Subject: Proto 64
Group: S-Trains Message: 40 From: Mac Date: 10/1/1998
Subject: Re: Cleaning
Group: S-Trains Message: 41 From: Chris Palomarez Date: 10/1/1998
Subject: Proto:64
Group: S-Trains Message: 42 From: Hilary Smith Date: 10/2/1998
Subject: Proto 64 & Tie Plates II
Group: S-Trains Message: 43 From: Hilary Smith Date: 10/2/1998
Subject: Proto64 & Tieplates I
Group: S-Trains Message: 44 From: Paul Yorke Date: 10/2/1998
Subject: [Fwd: Proto 64 info]
Group: S-Trains Message: 45 From: BenTrous@xxx.xxx Date: 10/2/1998
Subject: Tie Plates
Group: S-Trains Message: 46 From: thompson@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxx Date: 10/2/1998
Subject: For sale or trade
Group: S-Trains Message: 47 From: thompson@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxx Date: 10/2/1998
Subject: S Gauge Heavy Equipment ???
Group: S-Trains Message: 48 From: TPLCoMinn@xxx.xxx Date: 10/2/1998
Subject: M&StL Hoppers
Group: S-Trains Message: 49 From: TPLCoMinn@xxx.xxx Date: 10/2/1998
Subject: Proto: 64
Group: S-Trains Message: 50 From: Alex Binkley Date: 10/2/1998
Subject: S Gauge Heavy Equipment ???
Group: S-Trains Message: 51 From: Alex Binkley Date: 10/2/1998
Subject: proto 64
Group: S-Trains Message: 52 From: Paul Yorke Date: 10/2/1998
Subject: Dis & Dat
Group: S-Trains Message: 53 From: Jim Allen Date: 10/2/1998
Subject: Rectifier
Group: S-Trains Message: 54 From: Paul Yorke Date: 10/3/1998
Subject: Proto 64 info
Group: S-Trains Message: 55 From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx Date: 10/3/1998
Subject: Proto: 64
Group: S-Trains Message: 56 From: Arthur Armstrong Date: 10/3/1998
Subject: Re: Proto 64 info
Group: S-Trains Message: 57 From: Bilfrazier@xxx.xxx Date: 10/3/1998
Subject: Re: Rectifiers /rectiformers
Group: S-Trains Message: 58 From: Dennis Back Date: 10/3/1998
Subject: 742 reversing handcar
Group: S-Trains Message: 59 From: Chuck Smith Date: 10/3/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 5
Group: S-Trains Message: 60 From: M. McConnell Date: 10/3/1998
Subject: Help finding geneology info
Group: S-Trains Message: 61 From: kelvin white Date: 10/4/1998
Subject: SSMRS - PROTO 64 standards
Group: S-Trains Message: 62 From: Ken Zieska Date: 10/4/1998
Subject: Proto 64
Group: S-Trains Message: 63 From: HSage3@xxx.xxx Date: 10/4/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 6
Group: S-Trains Message: 64 From: Boul, Lawrence Date: 10/4/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 6
Group: S-Trains Message: 65 From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx Date: 10/4/1998
Subject: Cars
Group: S-Trains Message: 66 From: Ken Zieska Date: 10/4/1998
Subject: More thoughts
Group: S-Trains Message: 67 From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx Date: 10/4/1998
Subject: Cars (revised)
Group: S-Trains Message: 68 From: Vic Bereskin Date: 10/4/1998
Subject: Re: Reversing Handcar
Group: S-Trains Message: 69 From: Richard Snook Date: 10/4/1998
Subject: PROTO:64 interest
Group: S-Trains Message: 70 From: David Dewey Date: 10/4/1998
Subject: Rail Joints
Group: S-Trains Message: 71 From: Hilary Smith Date: 10/4/1998
Subject: Re: S Gauge Heavy Equipment ???
Group: S-Trains Message: 72 From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx Date: 10/4/1998
Subject: Utility Truck
Group: S-Trains Message: 73 From: Dale Smith Date: 10/4/1998
Subject: Re: More thoughts
Group: S-Trains Message: 74 From: Arthur Armstrong Date: 10/4/1998
Subject: Proto:64
Group: S-Trains Message: 75 From: Arthur Armstrong Date: 10/4/1998
Subject: proto64
Group: S-Trains Message: 76 From: kelvin white Date: 10/5/1998
Subject: Proto 64 & slide clinics
Group: S-Trains Message: 77 From: PortLines@xxx.xxx Date: 10/5/1998
Subject: Re: smoke fluids
Group: S-Trains Message: 78 From: Paul Yorke Date: 10/5/1998
Subject: Two Items
Group: S-Trains Message: 79 From: Thompson, Keith Date: 10/5/1998
Subject: Re: Proto 64
Group: S-Trains Message: 80 From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx Date: 10/5/1998
Subject: Ideas
Group: S-Trains Message: 81 From: Ken Zieska Date: 10/5/1998
Subject: S Stuff
Group: S-Trains Message: 82 From: Steinkirchner, Alan Date: 10/6/1998
Subject: American Models New Haven PAs
Group: S-Trains Message: 83 From: Jerry Riechert Date: 10/6/1998
Subject: Re: Two Items
Group: S-Trains Message: 84 From: kelvin white Date: 10/6/1998
Subject: AM USRA heavy 4-6-2
Group: S-Trains Message: 85 From: Paul Yorke Date: 10/6/1998
Subject: Proto64 or not to proto64
Group: S-Trains Message: 86 From: L123 Montgomery Date: 10/7/1998
Subject: Cleaning Old Tarnished AF Track
Group: S-Trains Message: 87 From: John Foley Date: 10/7/1998
Subject: Throttles
Group: S-Trains Message: 88 From: ALLAN V EISENHAUR Date: 10/7/1998
Subject: 332/336 tender
Group: S-Trains Message: 89 From: Roger Hinds Date: 10/7/1998
Subject: Track
Group: S-Trains Message: 90 From: Richard Snook Date: 10/7/1998
Subject: Article on PROTO:X Nov MR ??
Group: S-Trains Message: 91 From: Roger Hinds Date: 10/7/1998
Subject: Re: Rust
Group: S-Trains Message: 92 From: RWJW3@aol.com Date: 10/8/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 10
Group: S-Trains Message: 93 From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx Date: 10/8/1998
Subject: WANTED: GMC
Group: S-Trains Message: 94 From: John Foley Date: 10/8/1998
Subject: South Jersay S Gaugers Train Show
Group: S-Trains Message: 95 From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx Date: 10/8/1998
Subject: SPAM
Group: S-Trains Message: 96 From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx Date: 10/8/1998
Subject: MACK B
Group: S-Trains Message: 97 From: Richard Snook Date: 10/8/1998
Subject: Miller tie strip
Group: S-Trains Message: 98 From: Richard Snook Date: 10/8/1998
Subject: FW: Miller tie strip
Group: S-Trains Message: 99 From: Richard Snook Date: 10/9/1998
Subject: Proto relevent website
Group: S-Trains Message: 100 From: skeeze@xx.xxxxxx.xxx Date: 10/9/1998
Subject: Couplers
Group: S-Trains Message: 101 From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com Date: 10/9/1998
Subject: couplers
Group: S-Trains Message: 102 From: Haenn, Joe Date: 10/9/1998
Subject: Help at York
Group: S-Trains Message: 103 From: John Foley Date: 10/9/1998
Subject: Promotions
Group: S-Trains Message: 104 From: Thompson, Keith Date: 10/9/1998
Subject: Re: SPAM
Group: S-Trains Message: 105 From: Roger Hinds Date: 10/9/1998
Subject: Track products
Group: S-Trains Message: 106 From: Roger Hinds Date: 10/9/1998
Subject: SPAM
Group: S-Trains Message: 107 From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx Date: 10/9/1998
Subject: Re: Couplers
Group: S-Trains Message: 108 From: Dennis Back Date: 10/9/1998
Subject: smelly smoke
Group: S-Trains Message: 109 From: Ken Zieska Date: 10/9/1998
Subject: C-D Models
Group: S-Trains Message: 110 From: Al Castellani Date: 10/10/1998
Subject: Al Castellani/CBT is out of the office.
Group: S-Trains Message: 111 From: Chuck Smith Date: 10/10/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 12
Group: S-Trains Message: 112 From: W. Thomas Boussum Date: 10/10/1998
Subject: Switching couplers
Group: S-Trains Message: 113 From: John Foley Date: 10/11/1998
Subject: YORK PA
Group: S-Trains Message: 114 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 10/12/1998
Subject: Stink'n L-smell
Group: S-Trains Message: 115 From: kelvin white Date: 10/12/1998
Subject: The S Scale Aligator Hunt
Group: S-Trains Message: 116 From: Kempfam@xxx.xxx Date: 10/12/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 14
Group: S-Trains Message: 117 From: Wayne Zebron Date: 10/12/1998
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains Message: 118 From: L Montgomery Date: 10/13/1998
Subject: Cleaning Plastic Passenger Cars
Group: S-Trains Message: 119 From: Jim Grimes Date: 10/13/1998
Subject: York???
Group: S-Trains Message: 120 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 10/13/1998
Subject: ACCESSORIES & GARGRAVES
Group: S-Trains Message: 121 From: Roger Hinds Date: 10/13/1998
Subject: Train
Group: S-Trains Message: 122 From: Roger Hinds Date: 10/13/1998
Subject: Picture
Group: S-Trains Message: 123 From: louis glumac Date: 10/13/1998
Subject: value line track
Group: S-Trains Message: 124 From: Paul Yorke Date: 10/14/1998
Subject: Sharing graphics
Group: S-Trains Message: 125 From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com Date: 10/14/1998
Subject: cleaning cars
Group: S-Trains Message: 126 From: W. Thomas Boussum Date: 10/14/1998
Subject: Layout pictures
Group: S-Trains Message: 127 From: W. Thomas Boussum Date: 10/14/1998
Subject: Cleaning plastic passenger cars.
Group: S-Trains Message: 128 From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx Date: 10/14/1998
Subject: Swap wheel sets
Group: S-Trains Message: 129 From: Roy Plotnick Date: 10/14/1998
Subject: Fall S-fest
Group: S-Trains Message: 130 From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton Date: 10/14/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 16
Group: S-Trains Message: 131 From: David Dewey Date: 10/14/1998
Subject: Re: cleaning plastic streamline pass. cars
Group: S-Trains Message: 132 From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx Date: 10/14/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 15
Group: S-Trains Message: 133 From: Thompson, Keith Date: 10/15/1998
Subject: How big is that grain bin by the siding, the one with the cone on i
Group: S-Trains Message: 134 From: PortLines@xxx.xxx Date: 10/15/1998
Subject: Re: Cleaning shells
Group: S-Trains Message: 135 From: PortLines@xxx.xxx Date: 10/15/1998
Subject: Re: Polishing shells
Group: S-Trains Message: 136 From: Paul Yorke Date: 10/15/1998
Subject: S-Trains getting better
Group: S-Trains Message: 137 From: David Dewey Date: 10/15/1998
Subject: Re: Chrome removal; Was cleaning shells
Group: S-Trains Message: 138 From: Dale Smith Date: 10/16/1998
Subject: Re: Cleaning shells
Group: S-Trains Message: 139 From: L Montgomery Date: 10/16/1998
Subject: Cleaning Wheels on Lighted Cars
Group: S-Trains Message: 140 From: David Dewey Date: 10/16/1998
Subject: Re: Cleaning Wheels on Lighted Cars
Group: S-Trains Message: 141 From: Thompson, Keith Date: 10/16/1998
Subject: Re: Chrome removal; Was cleaning shells
Group: S-Trains Message: 142 From: Keith B. Thompson - Sun Date: 10/16/1998
Subject: PRR steam paint scheme
Group: S-Trains Message: 143 From: John Stephenson Date: 10/16/1998
Subject: Flyer E-Units
Group: S-Trains Message: 144 From: Steve Gruninger Date: 10/17/1998
Subject: Re: chrome removal
Group: S-Trains Message: 145 From: mhrreast@juno.com Date: 10/17/1998
Subject: cleaning track
Group: S-Trains Message: 146 From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton Date: 10/17/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 19
Group: S-Trains Message: 147 From: Nick and Becky Colleran Date: 10/17/1998
Subject: Sticky reverse (a/ka "E" unit)
Group: S-Trains Message: 148 From: kelvin white Date: 10/17/1998
Subject: Southwind D&RGW 2-8-0s
Group: S-Trains Message: 149 From: kelvin white Date: 10/17/1998
Subject: American Models 4-6-2 driving wheel size
Group: S-Trains Message: 150 From: David Dewey Date: 10/17/1998
Subject: Re: Sticky reverse (a/ka "E" unit)
Group: S-Trains Message: 151 From: Roger Hinds Date: 10/18/1998
Subject: E-units & Cleaner
Group: S-Trains Message: 152 From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx Date: 10/18/1998
Subject: Reverse Units
Group: S-Trains Message: 153 From: Wayne Broadhead Date: 10/18/1998
Subject: American Flyer PA sets
Group: S-Trains Message: 154 From: AFSTrains@xxx.xxx Date: 10/18/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 17
Group: S-Trains Message: 155 From: Dennis Back Date: 10/18/1998
Subject: Reverse Units/ ANOTHER question
Group: S-Trains Message: 156 From: Alex Binkley Date: 10/18/1998
Subject: Interesting sights
Group: S-Trains Message: 157 From: Dale Smith Date: 10/18/1998
Subject: Re: cleaning track
Group: S-Trains Message: 158 From: Ken Zieska Date: 10/18/1998
Subject: CD Models
Group: S-Trains Message: 159 From: NYC17819@xxx.xxx Date: 10/18/1998
Subject: Cleaning Northerns
Group: S-Trains Message: 160 From: David Dewey Date: 10/18/1998
Subject: Re: cleaning track
Group: S-Trains Message: 161 From: BenTrous@aol.com Date: 10/19/1998
Subject: Cleaning Wheels & Replies
Group: S-Trains Message: 162 From: TPLCoMinn@xxx.xxx Date: 10/19/1998
Subject: Pacific Driver Sizes for Kelvin
Group: S-Trains Message: 163 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 10/19/1998
Subject: Cleaning wheels
Group: S-Trains Message: 164 From: John Foley Date: 10/19/1998
Subject: York PA.
Group: S-Trains Message: 165 From: kelvin white Date: 10/19/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 21
Group: S-Trains Message: 166 From: kelvin white Date: 10/19/1998
Subject: Alien attack on American Models
Group: S-Trains Message: 167 From: Thompson, Keith Date: 10/19/1998
Subject: Re: Alien attack on American Models
Group: S-Trains Message: 168 From: PortLines@xxx.xxx Date: 10/19/1998
Subject: Re: 2-pos. e-units
Group: S-Trains Message: 169 From: kelvin white Date: 10/19/1998
Subject: Re: Alien attack on American Models
Group: S-Trains Message: 170 From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx Date: 10/19/1998
Subject: FLASH!
Group: S-Trains Message: 171 From: Vic Bereskin Date: 10/19/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 21
Group: S-Trains Message: 172 From: Wayne Broadhead Date: 10/20/1998
Subject: American Flyer tips
Group: S-Trains Message: 173 From: RxMan46321@xxx.xxx Date: 10/20/1998
Subject: loose motor mount
Group: S-Trains Message: 174 From: Roger Hinds Date: 10/20/1998
Subject: E-Unit
Group: S-Trains Message: 175 From: John Foley Date: 10/20/1998
Subject: Train Shows
Group: S-Trains Message: 176 From: Alex Binkley Date: 10/20/1998
Subject: British S
Group: S-Trains Message: 177 From: David Dewey Date: 10/20/1998
Subject: Re: loose motor mount
Group: S-Trains Message: 178 From: Curtis Johnson Date: 10/20/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 22
Group: S-Trains Message: 179 From: L Montgomery Date: 10/21/1998
Subject: Lighted Caboose Buzzes Constantly
Group: S-Trains Message: 180 From: David Dewey Date: 10/21/1998
Subject: Re: Lighted Caboose Buzzes Constantly
Group: S-Trains Message: 181 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 10/21/1998
Subject: E-Units
Group: S-Trains Message: 182 From: Cdmodels@aol.com Date: 10/21/1998
Subject: Re: S-Gauge Trucks
Group: S-Trains Message: 183 From: Thompson, Keith Date: 10/21/1998
Subject: Re: S-Gauge Trucks
Group: S-Trains Message: 184 From: Paul Yorke Date: 10/21/1998
Subject: Grain Trucks
Group: S-Trains Message: 185 From: PortLines@aol.com Date: 10/21/1998
Subject: Re: -Repair tips
Group: S-Trains Message: 186 From: Richard McClary Date: 10/21/1998
Subject: Layout "maintenance"
Group: S-Trains Message: 187 From: Dennis Back Date: 10/21/1998
Subject: Re: Layout
Group: S-Trains Message: 188 From: Wayne Broadhead Date: 10/21/1998
Subject: bubbling towers
Group: S-Trains Message: 189 From: David Dewey Date: 10/21/1998
Subject: Re: Layout "maintenance"
Group: S-Trains Message: 190 From: Mark Preman Date: 10/22/1998
Subject: Oil Derrick and Checkerboard Water tower For Sale
Group: S-Trains Message: 191 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 10/22/1998
Subject: 479 motor loose
Group: S-Trains Message: 192 From: Mellon, Jay E. Date: 10/22/1998
Subject: Re: Layout "maintenance"
Group: S-Trains Message: 193 From: Roger Hinds Date: 10/22/1998
Subject: Re: Layout "maintenance"
Group: S-Trains Message: 194 From: Roger Hinds Date: 10/22/1998
Subject: Re: Layout "maintenance"
Group: S-Trains Message: 195 From: RxMan46321@xxx.xxx Date: 10/22/1998
Subject: Re: Cats
Group: S-Trains Message: 196 From: thompson@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxx Date: 10/22/1998
Subject: Alan Gibson products
Group: S-Trains Message: 197 From: Keith Thompson Date: 10/22/1998
Subject: Need Truck Wheels?
Group: S-Trains Message: 198 From: RBubeck327@aol.com Date: 10/22/1998
Subject: Re: Layout "maintenance"
Group: S-Trains Message: 199 From: Chuck Smith Date: 10/22/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 24
Group: S-Trains Message: 200 From: Allen Evans Date: 10/22/1998
Subject: What an E-Unit Is
Group: S-Trains Message: 201 From: Ken Zieska Date: 10/22/1998
Subject: Pines and Prairies/NASG 1999 Special
Group: S-Trains Message: 202 From: Mac Date: 10/23/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 25
Group: S-Trains Message: 203 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 10/23/1998
Subject: hazard-free degreasing
Group: S-Trains Message: 204 From: RxMan46321@xxx.xxx Date: 10/23/1998
Subject: Switch machines
Group: S-Trains Message: 205 From: David Dewey Date: 10/23/1998
Subject: Re: hazard-free degreasing
Group: S-Trains Message: 206 From: Roger Hinds Date: 10/23/1998
Subject: E-units
Group: S-Trains Message: 207 From: Roger Hinds Date: 10/23/1998
Subject: Switch Machines
Group: S-Trains Message: 208 From: Roger Hinds Date: 10/23/1998
Subject: Grease removal
Group: S-Trains Message: 209 From: TPLCoMinn@xxx.xxx Date: 10/23/1998
Subject: Alan Gibson
Group: S-Trains Message: 210 From: JOPKE, WALTER Date: 10/23/1998
Subject: Lake Special 99 - The 1999 NASG National Convention Webpage
Group: S-Trains Message: 211 From: Ken Zieska Date: 10/23/1998
Subject: Thursday report
Group: S-Trains Message: 212 From: RxMan46321@aol.com Date: 10/24/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 26
Group: S-Trains Message: 213 From: Chuck Smith Date: 10/24/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 26
Group: S-Trains Message: 214 From: David L. Cooke Date: 10/24/1998
Subject: SWITCHMACHINES
Group: S-Trains Message: 215 From: Keith Thompson Date: 10/24/1998
Subject: Re: Thursday report
Group: S-Trains Message: 216 From: Ken Zieska Date: 10/24/1998
Subject: three axel lust
Group: S-Trains Message: 217 From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton Date: 10/24/1998
Subject: AF Roadbed
Group: S-Trains Message: 218 From: mhrreast@juno.com Date: 10/25/1998
Subject: MISC
Group: S-Trains Message: 219 From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton Date: 10/25/1998
Subject: AF Air Chime Whistle
Group: S-Trains Message: 220 From: David Dewey Date: 10/25/1998
Subject: Re: AF Air Chime Whistle
Group: S-Trains Message: 221 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 10/26/1998
Subject: degreasing, air chime, chassis
Group: S-Trains Message: 222 From: JOPKE, WALTER Date: 10/26/1998
Subject: "Mental Health" and Model Railroading
Group: S-Trains Message: 223 From: Thompson, Keith Date: 10/26/1998
Subject: Re: "Mental Health" and Model Railroading
Group: S-Trains Message: 224 From: PortLines@xxx.xxx Date: 10/26/1998
Subject: Re: Horns and Whistles
Group: S-Trains Message: 225 From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx Date: 10/26/1998
Subject: Re: AF Air Chime Whistle
Group: S-Trains Message: 226 From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx Date: 10/26/1998
Subject: Target
Group: S-Trains Message: 227 From: Alex Binkley Date: 10/26/1998
Subject: Modern S group
Group: S-Trains Message: 228 From: Arthur Armstrong Date: 10/26/1998
Subject: Re: Modern S group
Group: S-Trains Message: 229 From: Richard Snook Date: 10/26/1998
Subject: Re: Modern S group
Group: S-Trains Message: 230 From: Ken Zieska Date: 10/26/1998
Subject: Sad note
Group: S-Trains Message: 231 From: Hilary Smith Date: 10/27/1998
Subject: Re: Modern S group
Group: S-Trains Message: 232 From: Alex Binkley Date: 10/27/1998
Subject: Modern S group
Group: S-Trains Message: 233 From: esquivel Date: 10/27/1998
Subject: Re: Modern S group
Group: S-Trains Message: 234 From: Richard Snook Date: 10/27/1998
Subject: Modern, proto etc
Group: S-Trains Message: 235 From: Paul Yorke Date: 10/27/1998
Subject: Proto 64 - group
Group: S-Trains Message: 236 From: sigma@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Date: 10/28/1998
Subject: Canadians
Group: S-Trains Message: 237 From: kelvin white Date: 10/28/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 26
Group: S-Trains Message: 238 From: Chris Palomarez Date: 10/28/1998
Subject: Modern and proto interest
Group: S-Trains Message: 239 From: JOPKE, WALTER Date: 10/28/1998
Subject: Power chassis for River Raisin SD7/9 Locomotive
Group: S-Trains Message: 240 From: Ken Zieska Date: 10/28/1998
Subject: Busted
Group: S-Trains Message: 241 From: John Foley Date: 10/29/1998
Subject: Proto 64
Group: S-Trains Message: 242 From: kelvin white Date: 10/29/1998
Subject: Modern Prototype 'S'cale Modellers Group
Group: S-Trains Message: 243 From: Alex Binkley Date: 10/29/1998
Subject: Re: Modern Prototype 'S'cale Modellers Group
Group: S-Trains Message: 244 From: Paul Yorke Date: 10/29/1998
Subject: New Server location for S-Trains
Group: S-Trains Message: 245 From: PortLines@xxx.xxx Date: 10/29/1998
Subject: Re: Airchime vibrators
Group: S-Trains Message: 246 From: Alex Binkley Date: 10/29/1998
Subject: proto64
Group: S-Trains Message: 247 From: Paul Yorke Date: 10/30/1998
Subject: Grade
Group: S-Trains Message: 248 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 10/30/1998
Subject: Railsound B-unit chassis match
Group: S-Trains Message: 249 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 10/30/1998
Subject: choo choo build up
Group: S-Trains Message: 250 From: David Dewey Date: 10/30/1998
Subject: Re: choo choo build up
Group: S-Trains Message: 251 From: Dennis Back Date: 10/30/1998
Subject: 742 Reversing handcar problem
Group: S-Trains Message: 252 From: Ken Zieska Date: 10/30/1998
Subject: Friday Report
Group: S-Trains Message: 253 From: alice beachy Date: 10/31/1998
Subject: 471 Shell
Group: S-Trains Message: 254 From: LEAHY RUTH A Date: 10/31/1998
Subject: Choo-Choo Unit
Group: S-Trains Message: 255 From: David Dewey Date: 10/31/1998
Subject: Re: Choo-Choo Unit
Group: S-Trains Message: 256 From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx Date: 10/31/1998
Subject: Vehicles
Group: S-Trains Message: 257 From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx Date: 10/31/1998
Subject: P:64
Group: S-Trains Message: 258 From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx Date: 10/31/1998
Subject: Farm Eqpt
Group: S-Trains Message: 259 From: Donald P. Abrams Date: 10/31/1998
Subject: Re: Choo-Choo
Group: S-Trains Message: 260 From: Tom Rolfsmeyer Date: 11/1/1998
Subject: What is a Triple crown TTUX?
Group: S-Trains Message: 261 From: PatnDave Date: 11/1/1998
Subject: MPSM SIG
Group: S-Trains Message: 262 From: David Dewey Date: 11/1/1998
Subject: Re: What is a Triple crown TTUX?
Group: S-Trains Message: 263 From: PortLines@xxx.xxx Date: 11/1/1998
Subject: Re: Smoke units
Group: S-Trains Message: 264 From: Keith Thompson Date: 11/1/1998
Subject: Re: Vehicles
Group: S-Trains Message: 265 From: Alex Binkley Date: 11/1/1998
Subject: p64 and modern groups
Group: S-Trains Message: 266 From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx Date: 11/1/1998
Subject: '56 Ford Tires
Group: S-Trains Message: 267 From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx Date: 11/1/1998
Subject: Trucks
Group: S-Trains Message: 268 From: Paul Yorke Date: 11/1/1998
Subject: More new Stuff
Group: S-Trains Message: 269 From: Richard Snook Date: 11/1/1998
Subject: Re: trucks
Group: S-Trains Message: 270 From: Richard Snook Date: 11/1/1998
Subject: Re: Trucks
Group: S-Trains Message: 271 From: Keith Thompson Date: 11/1/1998
Subject: Re: '56 Ford Tires
Group: S-Trains Message: 272 From: Keith Thompson Date: 11/1/1998
Subject: Fifties Ford F-100 Facts
Group: S-Trains Message: 273 From: Alex Binkley Date: 11/2/1998
Subject: Modern S
Group: S-Trains Message: 274 From: Bill & Diane Wade Date: 11/2/1998
Subject: Re: MPSM / P:64 SIGs
Group: S-Trains Message: 275 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 11/2/1998
Subject: choo-choo build up
Group: S-Trains Message: 276 From: David Dewey Date: 11/2/1998
Subject: Re: choo-choo build up
Group: S-Trains Message: 277 From: jbs@xxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) Date: 11/2/1998
Subject: Parts Needed
Group: S-Trains Message: 278 From: Arthur Armstrong Date: 11/2/1998
Subject: Re: MPSM / P:64 SIGs
Group: S-Trains Message: 279 From: kelvin white Date: 11/2/1998
Subject: MPSM - Born again.
Group: S-Trains Message: 280 From: Mark Preman Date: 11/2/1998
Subject: November List-American Flyer Trains For Sale
Group: S-Trains Message: 281 From: Neimanis,V. [NCR] Date: 11/2/1998
Subject: Re: S-Trains - Grades
Group: S-Trains Message: 282 From: L Montgomery Date: 11/2/1998
Subject: Is There Any New Loco Suitable for 7 Year Old?
Group: S-Trains Message: 283 From: Bill & Diane Wade Date: 11/2/1998
Subject: New Station Underway!
Group: S-Trains Message: 284 From: Keith Thompson Date: 11/2/1998
Subject: P64 site
Group: S-Trains Message: 285 From: Richard Snook Date: 11/2/1998
Subject: Practitioner inclusion
Group: S-Trains Message: 286 From: Arthur Armstrong Date: 11/3/1998
Subject: Re: P64 site
Group: S-Trains Message: 287 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 11/3/1998
Subject: funky tender weight
Group: S-Trains Message: 288 From: David Dewey Date: 11/3/1998
Subject: Re: funky tender weight
Group: S-Trains Message: 289 From: JoeAWood@xxx.xxx Date: 11/3/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 34
Group: S-Trains Message: 290 From: JoeAWood@xxx.xxx Date: 11/3/1998
Subject: Re: Grades
Group: S-Trains Message: 291 From: Chuck Smith Date: 11/3/1998
Subject: Re: funky tender weight
Group: S-Trains Message: 292 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 11/3/1998
Subject: odd combos
Group: S-Trains Message: 293 From: Boul, Lawrence Date: 11/3/1998
Subject: Chama Models kits
Group: S-Trains Message: 294 From: Rhett T. George Date: 11/3/1998
Subject: SW-9 wheels
Group: S-Trains Message: 295 From: thompson@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxx Date: 11/3/1998
Subject: Re: Proto 64
Group: S-Trains Message: 296 From: Keith Thompson Date: 11/3/1998
Subject: Re: Chama Models kits
Group: S-Trains Message: 297 From: Keith Thompson Date: 11/3/1998
Subject: Re: Proto 64
Group: S-Trains Message: 298 From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx Date: 11/3/1998
Subject: Re: odd combos
Group: S-Trains Message: 299 From: bljohns@xxxxx.xxx Date: 11/3/1998
Subject: Flyer Automatic Turnout Control?
Group: S-Trains Message: 300 From: Alan Evans Date: 11/3/1998
Subject: Any Proto:64 or SIG people going to S Fest?
Group: S-Trains Message: 301 From: Arthur Armstrong Date: 11/3/1998
Subject: Re: Proto 64
Group: S-Trains Message: 302 From: Dale Smith Date: 11/3/1998
Subject: Re: odd combos
Group: S-Trains Message: 303 From: Alex Binkley Date: 11/4/1998
Subject: 1925-27 American Flyer
Group: S-Trains Message: 304 From: BenTrous@xxx.xxx Date: 11/4/1998
Subject: Re: TTUX
Group: S-Trains Message: 305 From: Alex Binkley Date: 11/4/1998
Subject: Re: proto 64
Group: S-Trains Message: 306 From: Bill Porter Date: 11/4/1998
Subject: Re: Flyer Automatic Turnout Control?
Group: S-Trains Message: 307 From: David Dewey Date: 11/4/1998
Subject: Re: Flyer Automatic Turnout Control?
Group: S-Trains Message: 308 From: Bill & Diane Wade Date: 11/4/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 35
Group: S-Trains Message: 309 From: David Dewey Date: 11/4/1998
Subject: Re: 1925-27 American Flyer
Group: S-Trains Message: 310 From: David Dewey Date: 11/4/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 35
Group: S-Trains Message: 311 From: Bill & Diane Wade Date: 11/4/1998
Subject: Clearance Sale Items
Group: S-Trains Message: 312 From: Chuck Smith Date: 11/4/1998
Subject: Re: Flyer Automatic Turnout Control?
Group: S-Trains Message: 313 From: Richard Snook Date: 11/4/1998
Subject: Re: Netless
Group: S-Trains Message: 314 From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton Date: 11/4/1998
Subject: Loco Variations
Group: S-Trains Message: 315 From: Donald P. Abrams Date: 11/4/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 35
Group: S-Trains Message: 316 From: Bilfrazier@aol.com Date: 11/4/1998
Subject: A.C.Gilbert fans
Group: S-Trains Message: 317 From: Brian Johns Date: 11/4/1998
Subject: Flyer Automatic Turnout Control?
Group: S-Trains Message: 318 From: thompson@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxx Date: 11/5/1998
Subject: PRR P5a in brass
Group: S-Trains Message: 319 From: Boul, Lawrence Date: 11/5/1998
Subject: Re: Ford AA
Group: S-Trains Message: 320 From: kelvin white Date: 11/5/1998
Subject: Proto 64 Column
Group: S-Trains Message: 321 From: David Dewey Date: 11/5/1998
Subject: Re: Ford AA; more trivial info...
Group: S-Trains Message: 322 From: Roger Hinds Date: 11/5/1998
Subject: Auto forum
Group: S-Trains Message: 323 From: Keith Thompson Date: 11/5/1998
Subject: Re: Auto forum
Group: S-Trains Message: 324 From: David Dewey Date: 11/5/1998
Subject: Re: Auto forum
Group: S-Trains Message: 325 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 11/5/1998
Subject: David Horn/VA/Best is out of the office.
Group: S-Trains Message: 326 From: Brian Johns Date: 11/5/1998
Subject: Flyer Automatic Turnout Control
Group: S-Trains Message: 327 From: Hilary Smith Date: 11/6/1998
Subject: P64 Column in S Modeling Guide
Group: S-Trains Message: 328 From: nsupbnsf@xxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) Date: 11/5/1998
Subject: Repairs for Smoke in Tender
Group: S-Trains Message: 329 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 11/6/1998
Subject: TRAINS vs AUTOS
Group: S-Trains Message: 330 From: David Dewey Date: 11/6/1998
Subject: Re: Repairs for Smoke in Tender
Group: S-Trains Message: 331 From: Brian Johns Date: 11/6/1998
Subject: Whoops...
Group: S-Trains Message: 332 From: Bruce Crosby Date: 11/7/1998
Subject: Re: Smoking Tender Repair
Group: S-Trains Message: 333 From: mhrreast@juno.com Date: 11/7/1998
Subject: Die-Cast
Group: S-Trains Message: 334 From: PortLines@aol.com Date: 11/7/1998
Subject: Re: Structures, and reefers
Group: S-Trains Message: 335 From: Roger Hinds Date: 11/7/1998
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains Message: 336 From: Mac Date: 11/7/1998
Subject: AF 50
Group: S-Trains Message: 337 From: David Dewey Date: 11/7/1998
Subject: Re: Structures, and reefers
Group: S-Trains Message: 338 From: W. Thomas Boussum Date: 11/6/1998
Subject: Tender mounted smoke unit repairs.
Group: S-Trains Message: 339 From: David Dewey Date: 11/7/1998
Subject: Re: AF 50
Group: S-Trains Message: 340 From: Roger Hinds Date: 11/7/1998
Subject: Smoke unit
Group: S-Trains Message: 341 From: David Dewey Date: 11/7/1998
Subject: Re: Tender mounted smoke unit repairs.
Group: S-Trains Message: 342 From: Chuck Smith Date: 11/7/1998
Subject: Re: AF 50
Group: S-Trains Message: 343 From: RBubeck327@aol.com Date: 11/7/1998
Subject: Re: Tender mounted smoke unit repairs.
Group: S-Trains Message: 344 From: alice beachy Date: 11/7/1998
Subject: S gauge for children
Group: S-Trains Message: 345 From: mhrreast@juno.com Date: 11/7/1998
Subject: Die Cast Trees
Group: S-Trains Message: 346 From: Boss31@aol.com Date: 11/7/1998
Subject: Re: Alan Udys SIT bellows leak
Group: S-Trains Message: 347 From: Craig S. O'Connell Date: 11/8/1998
Subject: Re: Smoking Tender Repair
Group: S-Trains Message: 348 From: PortLines@xxx.xxx Date: 11/8/1998
Subject: Re: Trees
Group: S-Trains Message: 349 From: mary jo shutt Date: 11/8/1998
Subject: 30b transformer
Group: S-Trains Message: 350 From: PortLines@xxx.xxx Date: 11/8/1998
Subject: Re: SIT units
Group: S-Trains Message: 351 From: Alex Binkley Date: 11/8/1998
Subject: S for sale
Group: S-Trains Message: 352 From: Jeffrey Tangeman Date: 11/8/1998
Subject: Re: S gauge for children
Group: S-Trains Message: 353 From: Ken Zieska Date: 11/8/1998
Subject: weekend report
Group: S-Trains Message: 354 From: Donald P. Abrams Date: 11/8/1998
Subject: Smoke in Tender
Group: S-Trains Message: 355 From: Hilary Smith Date: 11/8/1998
Subject: Re: Auto forum
Group: S-Trains Message: 356 From: RobertE613@xxx.xxx Date: 11/10/1998
Subject: Track Advice
Group: S-Trains Message: 357 From: Chuck Smith Date: 11/10/1998
Subject: Re: Track Advice
Group: S-Trains Message: 358 From: John Foley Date: 11/10/1998
Subject: S-FEST
Group: S-Trains Message: 359 From: kelvin white Date: 11/10/1998
Subject: SP Bloody nose paint scheme
Group: S-Trains Message: 360 From: Richard Snook Date: 11/10/1998
Subject: SP Bloody Nose
Group: S-Trains Message: 361 From: Paul Yorke Date: 11/10/1998
Subject: Gargraves Track
Group: S-Trains Message: 362 From: John Foley Date: 11/10/1998
Subject: Thanks
Group: S-Trains Message: 363 From: W. Thomas Boussum Date: 11/10/1998
Subject: Thanks for the input on my SIT problems.
Group: S-Trains Message: 364 From: Paul Yorke Date: 11/11/1998
Subject: Loco Upgrades
Group: S-Trains Message: 365 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 11/11/1998
Subject: Re: Robert's Gargraves track
Group: S-Trains Message: 366 From: ClaimsBoss@xxx.xxx Date: 11/11/1998
Subject: Scale vs Hi-rail
Group: S-Trains Message: 367 From: Chuck Smith Date: 11/11/1998
Subject: Re: Scale vs Hi-rail
Group: S-Trains Message: 368 From: nsupbnsf@xxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) Date: 11/11/1998
Subject: 350 Connector Pins
Group: S-Trains Message: 369 From: Alex Binkley Date: 11/11/1998
Subject: modern prototype group
Group: S-Trains Message: 370 From: Richard Snook Date: 11/11/1998
Subject: proto:64 standards
Group: S-Trains Message: 371 From: Richard Snook Date: 11/11/1998
Subject: Proto 64 standards (proposed)
Group: S-Trains Message: 372 From: Paul Yorke Date: 11/12/1998
Subject: crinkle
Group: S-Trains Message: 373 From: Jeffrey Tangeman Date: 11/12/1998
Subject: Anyone near New Haven?
Group: S-Trains Message: 374 From: Bill Porter Date: 11/12/1998
Subject: Re: Anyone near New Haven?
Group: S-Trains Message: 375 From: Bill Porter Date: 11/12/1998
Subject: TTOS
Group: S-Trains Message: 376 From: Chuck Smith Date: 11/12/1998
Subject: Re: Anyone near New Haven?
Group: S-Trains Message: 377 From: Mellon, Jay E. Date: 11/12/1998
Subject: Re: Anyone near New Haven?
Group: S-Trains Message: 378 From: David Dewey Date: 11/12/1998
Subject: Re: Anyone near New Haven?
Group: S-Trains Message: 379 From: Neimanis,V. [NCR] Date: 11/12/1998
Subject: Re: Track Advice
Group: S-Trains Message: 380 From: L Montgomery Date: 11/12/1998
Subject: Snow Cover
Group: S-Trains Message: 381 From: David Dewey Date: 11/12/1998
Subject: Re: Snow Cover
Group: S-Trains Message: 382 From: Paul Yorke Date: 11/12/1998
Subject: protype
Group: S-Trains Message: 383 From: kelvin white Date: 11/12/1998
Subject: MPSM Sig
Group: S-Trains Message: 384 From: PatnDave Date: 11/12/1998
Subject: NMRA Memberships
Group: S-Trains Message: 385 From: Richard Snook Date: 11/12/1998
Subject: Hobby Surplus
Group: S-Trains Message: 386 From: Roger Hinds Date: 11/12/1998
Subject: Re: NMRA Memberships
Group: S-Trains Message: 387 From: Alex Binkley Date: 11/12/1998
Subject: Re: Where to go with Modern S group
Group: S-Trains Message: 388 From: Bill Porter Date: 11/12/1998
Subject: Re: NMRA Memberships
Group: S-Trains Message: 389 From: Keith Thompson Date: 11/12/1998
Subject: Re: NMRA Memberships
Group: S-Trains Message: 390 From: Paul Yorke Date: 11/13/1998
Subject: Electronic track trip
Group: S-Trains Message: 391 From: Alex Binkley Date: 11/13/1998
Subject: resend of Modern S group note to fix garbles, I hope
Group: S-Trains Message: 392 From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade Date: 11/13/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 43
Group: S-Trains Message: 393 From: thompson@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxx Date: 11/13/1998
Subject: Re: NMRA Memberships
Group: S-Trains Message: 394 From: David Dewey Date: 11/13/1998
Subject: Re: Electronic track trip
Group: S-Trains Message: 395 From: Dave Heine Date: 11/13/1998
Subject: NMRA Membership
Group: S-Trains Message: 396 From: Michael Greene Date: 11/13/1998
Subject: Re: NMRA Memberships
Group: S-Trains Message: 397 From: PortLines@xxx.xxx Date: 11/13/1998
Subject: Re: crackle paint
Group: S-Trains Message: 398 From: Arthur Armstrong Date: 11/13/1998
Subject: Re: NMRA Memberships
Group: S-Trains Message: 399 From: Paul Yorke Date: 11/13/1998
Subject: Webpage Update
Group: S-Trains Message: 400 From: Roger Hinds Date: 11/13/1998
Subject: Proto 64
Group: S-Trains Message: 401 From: Curtis Johnson Date: 11/13/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 43
Group: S-Trains Message: 402 From: Roger Hinds Date: 11/13/1998
Subject: Politics
Group: S-Trains Message: 403 From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx Date: 11/13/1998
Subject: F Units
Group: S-Trains Message: 404 From: jim Date: 11/13/1998
Subject: S guage questions
Group: S-Trains Message: 405 From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx Date: 11/13/1998
Subject: Majorette
Group: S-Trains Message: 406 From: RxMan46321@xxx.xxx Date: 11/14/1998
Subject: Lubricating axels
Group: S-Trains Message: 407 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 11/14/1998
Subject: NMRA OR ANY MEMBERSHIP
Group: S-Trains Message: 408 From: PatnDave Date: 11/14/1998
Subject: NMRA membership
Group: S-Trains Message: 409 From: Chuck Smith Date: 11/14/1998
Subject: Re: Lubricating axels
Group: S-Trains Message: 410 From: kelvin white Date: 11/14/1998
Subject: Lionel conversions and driving wheels.
Group: S-Trains Message: 411 From: kelvin white Date: 11/14/1998
Subject: MPSM --the future
Group: S-Trains Message: 412 From: kelvin white Date: 11/14/1998
Subject: MPSM --the future
Group: S-Trains Message: 413 From: Jeffrey Tangeman Date: 11/14/1998
Subject: Flyer part Number
Group: S-Trains Message: 414 From: Jeffrey Tangeman Date: 11/14/1998
Subject: Hobby surplus catalog arrived
Group: S-Trains Message: 415 From: Alex Binkley Date: 11/14/1998
Subject: Re: MPSM --the future
Group: S-Trains Message: 416 From: Curtis Johnson Date: 11/14/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 44
Group: S-Trains Message: 417 From: Chuck Smith Date: 11/14/1998
Subject: Re: Flyer part Number
Group: S-Trains Message: 418 From: Ken Zieska Date: 11/14/1998
Subject: Weekend Report
Group: S-Trains Message: 419 From: HSage3@xxx.xxx Date: 11/14/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 44
Group: S-Trains Message: 420 From: David Dewey Date: 11/14/1998
Subject: Re: Hobby surplus catalog arrived
Group: S-Trains Message: 421 From: mhrreast@juno.com Date: 11/15/1998
Subject: Lubricating Axles
Group: S-Trains Message: 422 From: Paul Yorke Date: 11/15/1998
Subject: Link Page Update
Group: S-Trains Message: 423 From: Robin Thompson Date: 11/15/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 44
Group: S-Trains Message: 424 From: LEAHY RUTH A Date: 11/15/1998
Subject: MTH in "S"?
Group: S-Trains Message: 425 From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx Date: 11/15/1998
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains Message: 426 From: PortLines@xxx.xxx Date: 11/15/1998
Subject: Re: Rivets and gondolas
Group: S-Trains Message: 427 From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx Date: 11/15/1998
Subject: Re: Lubricating axels
Group: S-Trains Message: 428 From: David Dewey Date: 11/15/1998
Subject: Re: Rollin' wheels
Group: S-Trains Message: 429 From: kelvin white Date: 11/15/1998
Subject: MPSM - Modern Locomotives List
Group: S-Trains Message: 430 From: kelvin white Date: 11/15/1998
Subject: MPSM - cut off dates
Group: S-Trains Message: 431 From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx Date: 11/15/1998
Subject: Re: Rollin' wheels
Group: S-Trains Message: 432 From: esquivel Date: 11/15/1998
Subject: Re: Webpage Update
Group: S-Trains Message: 433 From: Richard Snook Date: 11/15/1998
Subject: Proto:64
Group: S-Trains Message: 434 From: Robin Thompson Date: 11/15/1998
Subject: Re: MTH in "S"?
Group: S-Trains Message: 435 From: Vic Bereskin Date: 11/15/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 44
Group: S-Trains Message: 436 From: Roy E. Plotnick Date: 11/15/1998
Subject: An "Arggh" moment
Group: S-Trains Message: 437 From: Joseph F Haenn Date: 11/15/1998
Subject: NMRA Membership
Group: S-Trains Message: 438 From: Keith Thompson Date: 11/16/1998
Subject: Re: MPSM - Modern Locomotives List
Group: S-Trains Message: 439 From: Keith Thompson Date: 11/16/1998
Subject: Re: MTH in "S"?
Group: S-Trains Message: 440 From: sigma@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Date: 11/16/1998
Subject: roof styles
Group: S-Trains Message: 441 From: sigma@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Date: 11/16/1998
Subject: mainline modeler
Group: S-Trains Message: 442 From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com Date: 11/16/1998
Subject: electric track trip
Group: S-Trains Message: 443 From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com Date: 11/16/1998
Subject: new Casey by H-Surplus
Group: S-Trains Message: 444 From: Richard Snook Date: 11/16/1998
Subject: modern group
Group: S-Trains Message: 445 From: GPMLG@aol.com Date: 11/16/1998
Subject: Detail Parts
Group: S-Trains Message: 446 From: Milorod@aol.com Date: 11/16/1998
Subject: Re: NMRA membership
Group: S-Trains Message: 447 From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx Date: 11/16/1998
Subject: Canadian S-scalers
Group: S-Trains Message: 448 From: Alex Binkley Date: 11/16/1998
Subject: need to contact Don Richards
Group: S-Trains Message: 449 From: Bill Porter Date: 11/16/1998
Subject: Modern Stuff
Group: S-Trains Message: 450 From: Bilfrazier@xxx.xxx Date: 11/16/1998
Subject: Re: Modern locomotives
Group: S-Trains Message: 451 From: joes-train-repair@xxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: 11/16/1998
Subject: S Gauge Rogues
Group: S-Trains Message: 452 From: joes-train-repair@xxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: 11/16/1998
Subject: Re: MTH in "S"?
Group: S-Trains Message: 453 From: Richard Snook Date: 11/16/1998
Subject: modern loco
Group: S-Trains Message: 454 From: RB Date: 11/16/1998
Subject: American Flyer track
Group: S-Trains Message: 455 From: Mac Date: 11/17/1998
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains Message: 456 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 11/17/1998
Subject: original AF track
Group: S-Trains Message: 457 From: W. Thomas Boussum Date: 11/16/1998
Subject: Canadian 'S' gaugers
Group: S-Trains Message: 458 From: JOPKE, WALTER Date: 11/17/1998
Subject: Modern Locomotive Wish List
Group: S-Trains Message: 459 From: John Foley Date: 11/17/1998
Subject: S-Club L.I. N.Y.
Group: S-Trains Message: 460 From: Robin Thompson Date: 11/17/1998
Subject: Re: Detail Parts
Group: S-Trains Message: 461 From: Ross M Roberts Date: 11/17/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 47
Group: S-Trains Message: 462 From: Paul Yorke Date: 11/17/1998
Subject: Modern and a call for pictures
Group: S-Trains Message: 463 From: Ken Zieska Date: 11/17/1998
Subject: Catagories
Group: S-Trains Message: 464 From: Alex Binkley Date: 11/17/1998
Subject: Re: MPSM - Modern Locomotives List
Group: S-Trains Message: 465 From: Richard Snook Date: 11/17/1998
Subject: 40 year rule
Group: S-Trains Message: 466 From: Boss31@xxx.xxx Date: 11/17/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 47 American Flyer track
Group: S-Trains Message: 467 From: Jeffrey Madden Date: 11/17/1998
Subject: Re: Welcome to S-Trains@onelist.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 468 From: Alex Binkley Date: 11/18/1998
Subject: Canadian S site
Group: S-Trains Message: 469 From: Alex Binkley Date: 11/18/1998
Subject: old freight cars
Group: S-Trains Message: 470 From: JHAUGH12 Date: 11/18/1998
Subject: Lionel for next year
Group: S-Trains Message: 471 From: kelvin white Date: 11/18/1998
Subject: GG1 withdrawl dates ?
Group: S-Trains Message: 472 From: Chris Palomarez Date: 11/18/1998
Subject: Wishful Products for MPSM
Group: S-Trains Message: 473 From: Thompson, Keith Date: 11/18/1998
Subject: Re: GG1 withdrawl dates ?
Group: S-Trains Message: 474 From: Chris Palomarez Date: 11/18/1998
Subject: MPSM cutoff dates? why?
Group: S-Trains Message: 475 From: Thompson, Keith Date: 11/18/1998
Subject: Re: Wishful Products for MPSM
Group: S-Trains Message: 476 From: Chris Palomarez Date: 11/18/1998
Subject: Re: Wishful Products for MPSM
Group: S-Trains Message: 477 From: Chris Palomarez Date: 11/18/1998
Subject: MPSM scale trucks
Group: S-Trains Message: 478 From: Paul Yorke Date: 11/18/1998
Subject: Hold that thought!
Group: S-Trains Message: 479 From: Alex Binkley Date: 11/18/1998
Subject: Re: Wishful Products for MPSM
Group: S-Trains Message: 480 From: Richard Snook Date: 11/18/1998
Subject: re roller bearing truck
Group: S-Trains Message: 481 From: Paul Yorke Date: 11/18/1998
Subject: Proposed Survey Questions
Group: S-Trains Message: 482 From: Alex Binkley Date: 11/18/1998
Subject: Re: MPSM scale trucks
Group: S-Trains Message: 483 From: Robin Thompson Date: 11/18/1998
Subject: Re: MPSM scale trucks
Group: S-Trains Message: 484 From: PortLines@xxx.xxx Date: 11/18/1998
Subject: Re: Track
Group: S-Trains Message: 485 From: Rhett T. George Date: 11/19/1998
Subject: SW-9 wheels
Group: S-Trains Message: 486 From: Mark Preman Date: 11/19/1998
Subject: Fwd: S Gaugian Back Issues
Group: S-Trains Message: 487 From: RxMan46321@xxx.xxx Date: 11/19/1998
Subject: DCC decoders
Group: S-Trains Message: 488 From: John Foley Date: 11/19/1998
Subject: NASG Memberships
Group: S-Trains Message: 489 From: alice beachy Date: 11/19/1998
Subject: Mike Wolf Talk
Group: S-Trains Message: 490 From: Bilfrazier@xxx.xxx Date: 11/19/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 49
Group: S-Trains Message: 491 From: Ken Zieska Date: 11/19/1998
Subject: Thursday night report
Group: S-Trains Message: 492 From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx Date: 11/20/1998
Subject: Finescale Modeling
Group: S-Trains Message: 493 From: Alex Binkley Date: 11/20/1998
Subject: MPSG update
Group: S-Trains Message: 494 From: Alex Binkley Date: 11/20/1998
Subject: another MPSG update
Group: S-Trains Message: 495 From: Chris Palomarez Date: 11/20/1998
Subject: MPSM Scale Roller Bearing Trucks
Group: S-Trains Message: 496 From: Paul Yorke Date: 11/20/1998
Subject: Re: MPSG update
Group: S-Trains Message: 497 From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx Date: 11/20/1998
Subject: Rail Joiners
Group: S-Trains Message: 498 From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx Date: 11/20/1998
Subject: Car Accident
Group: S-Trains Message: 499 From: Nick and Becky Colleran Date: 11/20/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 50
Group: S-Trains Message: 500 From: seg@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) Date: 11/20/1998
Subject: AF up for sale?
Group: S-Trains Message: 501 From: Robin Thompson Date: 11/21/1998
Subject: Re: Rail Joiners
Group: S-Trains Message: 502 From: PatnDave Date: 11/21/1998
Subject: Scale Roller Bearing Trucks
Group: S-Trains Message: 503 From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx Date: 11/21/1998
Subject: Photos
Group: S-Trains Message: 504 From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx Date: 11/21/1998
Subject: Re: AF up for sale?
Group: S-Trains Message: 505 From: kelvin white Date: 11/21/1998
Subject: MPSG email list
Group: S-Trains Message: 506 From: Robin Thompson Date: 11/21/1998
Subject: Re: AF up for sale?
Group: S-Trains Message: 507 From: Roger Hinds Date: 11/21/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 50
Group: S-Trains Message: 508 From: alice beachy Date: 11/22/1998
Subject: MTH, AF, and S
Group: S-Trains Message: 509 From: Wesley, Jack Date: 11/22/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 51
Group: S-Trains Message: 510 From: donrich Date: 11/22/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 51
Group: S-Trains Message: 511 From: donrich Date: 11/22/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 51
Group: S-Trains Message: 512 From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx Date: 11/22/1998
Subject: Madison roof
Group: S-Trains Message: 513 From: Kempfam@xxx.xxx Date: 11/22/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 51
Group: S-Trains Message: 514 From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx Date: 11/22/1998
Subject: Re: Madison roof
Group: S-Trains Message: 515 From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade Date: 11/22/1998
Subject: Only Eight Days Left
Group: S-Trains Message: 516 From: Richard Snook Date: 11/22/1998
Subject: modern and P64 lists
Group: S-Trains Message: 517 From: Robin Thompson Date: 11/22/1998
Subject: Re: Madison roof
Group: S-Trains Message: 518 From: Vic Bereskin Date: 11/22/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 51
Group: S-Trains Message: 519 From: Charles L. Day Date: 11/23/1998
Subject: Digest Number 52
Group: S-Trains Message: 520 From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx Date: 11/23/1998
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains Message: 521 From: David Dewey Date: 11/23/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 52
Group: S-Trains Message: 522 From: David Dewey Date: 11/23/1998
Subject: Re: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains Message: 523 From: David Dewey Date: 11/23/1998
Subject: New oil drum loader?
Group: S-Trains Message: 524 From: Paul Yorke Date: 11/23/1998
Subject: Don't use 'Reply'
Group: S-Trains Message: 525 From: Alex Binkley Date: 11/23/1998
Subject: computor woes (especially for modern prototype group)
Group: S-Trains Message: 526 From: John Foley Date: 11/24/1998
Subject: Happy Thanksgiving
Group: S-Trains Message: 527 From: Kempfam@xxx.xxx Date: 11/24/1998
Subject: Saw Mill Oil Drum Loader
Group: S-Trains Message: 528 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 11/25/1998
Subject: Thanksgiving
Group: S-Trains Message: 529 From: RBalli5085@xxx.xxx Date: 11/25/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 54
Group: S-Trains Message: 530 From: RBalli5085@xxx.xxx Date: 11/25/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 54
Group: S-Trains Message: 531 From: David Dewey Date: 11/25/1998
Subject: Happy Thanksgiving all!
Group: S-Trains Message: 532 From: Paul Yorke Date: 11/25/1998
Subject: Thanks to All
Group: S-Trains Message: 533 From: JFR040436@xxxxxx.xxx Date: 11/25/1998
Subject: Barrel Loader (by Lionel)
Group: S-Trains Message: 534 From: Ken Zieska Date: 11/25/1998
Subject: Happy Thanksgiving
Group: S-Trains Message: 535 From: Robin Thompson Date: 11/26/1998
Subject: Re: Happy Thanksgiving
Group: S-Trains Message: 536 From: mary jo shutt Date: 11/26/1998
Subject: lamplighter
Group: S-Trains Message: 537 From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx Date: 11/26/1998
Subject: Possible source of buildings for "S"
Group: S-Trains Message: 538 From: Hilary Smith Date: 11/26/1998
Subject: Re: Rail Joiners
Group: S-Trains Message: 539 From: Craig S. O'Connell Date: 11/27/1998
Subject: Re: Possible source of buildings for "S"
Group: S-Trains Message: 540 From: steve roche Date: 11/27/1998
Subject: Electromagnetic Crane
Group: S-Trains Message: 541 From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx Date: 11/27/1998
Subject: Tank cars
Group: S-Trains Message: 542 From: BenTrous@xxx.xxx Date: 11/27/1998
Subject: Code .148 Rail Joiners
Group: S-Trains Message: 543 From: Robin Thompson Date: 11/27/1998
Subject: Re: Code .148 Rail Joiners
Group: S-Trains Message: 544 From: PortLines@xxx.xxx Date: 11/28/1998
Subject: Re: - tankcar
Group: S-Trains Message: 545 From: Paul Yorke Date: 11/29/1998
Subject: Survey - last look
Group: S-Trains Message: 546 From: kelvin white Date: 11/29/1998
Subject: British 4mm buildings for S scale.
Group: S-Trains Message: 547 From: Keith Thompson Date: 11/29/1998
Subject: Re: British 4mm buildings for S scale.
Group: S-Trains Message: 548 From: Keith Thompson Date: 11/29/1998
Subject: Re: British 4mm buildings for S scale.
Group: S-Trains Message: 549 From: L Montgomery Date: 11/30/1998
Subject: Snow Scene Material
Group: S-Trains Message: 550 From: Mark Preman Date: 11/30/1998
Subject: December List Of American Flyer For Sale
Group: S-Trains Message: 551 From: seg@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) Date: 11/30/1998
Subject: 772 checkerboard tank disassembly
Group: S-Trains Message: 552 From: Tomlinson, John D Date: 11/30/1998
Subject: Replacement Motor Units
Group: S-Trains Message: 553 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 11/30/1998
Subject: All Aboard and others
Group: S-Trains Message: 554 From: Paul Yorke Date: 12/1/1998
Subject: Survey Time
Group: S-Trains Message: 555 From: Brad Lee Rockwell Date: 12/1/1998
Subject: Roger Hinds track cleaner
Group: S-Trains Message: 556 From: Steinkirchner, Alan Date: 12/1/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 60 Message 4 Replacement motor units
Group: S-Trains Message: 557 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 12/1/1998
Subject: Help start 'em young
Group: S-Trains Message: 558 From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade Date: 12/1/1998
Subject: New Classified Ads have been posted
Group: S-Trains Message: 559 From: Gregg Mummert Date: 12/1/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 60
Group: S-Trains Message: 560 From: John Foley Date: 12/1/1998
Subject: FOR SALE
Group: S-Trains Message: 561 From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade Date: 12/1/1998
Subject: AM Flats
Group: S-Trains Message: 562 From: Alex Binkley Date: 12/1/1998
Subject: Marx truss bridge
Group: S-Trains Message: 563 From: EMarkA@xxx.xxx Date: 12/2/1998
Subject: AF Engines
Group: S-Trains Message: 564 From: Theodore Fabian Date: 12/2/1998
Subject: prices / values / infomation
Group: S-Trains Message: 565 From: TerryMacE@xxx.xxx Date: 12/2/1998
Subject: Electronic Whistle Controller
Group: S-Trains Message: 566 From: David Dewey Date: 12/2/1998
Subject: Re: prices / values / infomation
Group: S-Trains Message: 567 From: David Dewey Date: 12/2/1998
Subject: Re: Electronic Whistle Controller
Group: S-Trains Message: 568 From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx Date: 12/2/1998
Subject: reefers
Group: S-Trains Message: 569 From: Gerbasi Date: 12/2/1998
Subject: 1957 Chevys for your layout
Group: S-Trains Message: 570 From: Keith Thompson Date: 12/2/1998
Subject: Proto 64 List is up and running
Group: S-Trains Message: 571 From: Bill Porter Date: 12/2/1998
Subject: Ratings
Group: S-Trains Message: 572 From: Paul Yorke Date: 12/2/1998
Subject: Re: Ratings
Group: S-Trains Message: 573 From: PortLines@xxx.xxx Date: 12/2/1998
Subject: Re: can motors
Group: S-Trains Message: 574 From: Richard Snook Date: 12/2/1998
Subject: Des Plaines Hobbies #88 wheels
Group: S-Trains Message: 575 From: Richard Snook Date: 12/2/1998
Subject: proto listserve
Group: S-Trains Message: 576 From: Roger Delthony Date: 12/2/1998
Subject: [Fwd: Ertl 1/64 building sets in stores]
Group: S-Trains Message: 577 From: SGaugeRAB@xxx.xxx Date: 12/2/1998
Subject: SHS Christmas Caboose
Group: S-Trains Message: 578 From: Richard Snook Date: 12/2/1998
Subject: Ertl GP35
Group: S-Trains Message: 579 From: SGaugeRAB@xxx.xxx Date: 12/2/1998
Subject: Re: Snow Scene Material
Group: S-Trains Message: 580 From: Dale Smith Date: 12/2/1998
Subject: Re: Electronic Whistle Controller
Group: S-Trains Message: 581 From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx Date: 12/3/1998
Subject: Plasticville Accesoeies
Group: S-Trains Message: 582 From: John Conant Date: 12/3/1998
Subject: Winter Scenes
Group: S-Trains Message: 583 From: Mark Preman Date: 12/3/1998
Subject: Fwd: Re: December List-American Flyer Trains For Sale
Group: S-Trains Message: 584 From: David Dewey Date: 12/3/1998
Subject: Re: Plasticville Accesoeies
Group: S-Trains Message: 585 From: Theodore Fabian Date: 12/3/1998
Subject: Re: prices / values / infomation
Group: S-Trains Message: 586 From: John E. Dalton Date: 12/3/1998
Subject: Re: Ertl GP35
Group: S-Trains Message: 587 From: Chuck Smith Date: 12/3/1998
Subject: Re: prices / values / infomation
Group: S-Trains Message: 588 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 12/3/1998
Subject: ERTL GP35
Group: S-Trains Message: 589 From: Richard Snook Date: 12/3/1998
Subject: Ertl GP35-more info please
Group: S-Trains Message: 590 From: Keith Thompson Date: 12/3/1998
Subject: Re: Ertl GP35-more info please
Group: S-Trains Message: 591 From: Ken Zieska Date: 12/3/1998
Subject: Blood on the Floor
Group: S-Trains Message: 592 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 12/4/1998
Subject: Trains for a 3.5 year old
Group: S-Trains Message: 593 From: Paul Yorke Date: 12/4/1998
Subject: First Survey results.
Group: S-Trains Message: 594 From: EMarkA@xxx.xxx Date: 12/4/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 62
Group: S-Trains Message: 595 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 12/4/1998
Subject: grimy, leaky choo-choo cont'd.
Group: S-Trains Message: 596 From: JOHN EICHMANN Date: 12/4/1998
Subject: Anemic Whistle
Group: S-Trains Message: 597 From: David Dewey Date: 12/4/1998
Subject: Re: Anemic Whistle
Group: S-Trains Message: 598 From: Bilfrazier@aol.com Date: 12/4/1998
Subject: Re: Ertl GP35
Group: S-Trains Message: 599 From: PortLines@xxx.xxx Date: 12/5/1998
Subject: Re: anemic billboard
Group: S-Trains Message: 600 From: Curtis Johnson Date: 12/5/1998
Subject: Re: Trains for a 3.5 year old
Group: S-Trains Message: 601 From: RWJW3@xxx.xxx Date: 12/5/1998
Subject: Anemic Whistle
Group: S-Trains Message: 602 From: randall.griggs@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) Date: 12/5/1998
Subject: Need unpainted Dreyfus Hudson kit.
Group: S-Trains Message: 603 From: Ken Zieska Date: 12/5/1998
Subject: Trackwork
Group: S-Trains Message: 604 From: Robin Thompson Date: 12/5/1998
Subject: Re: Proto 64 Trackwork & code 125 rail
Group: S-Trains Message: 605 From: BenTrous@xxx.xxx Date: 12/5/1998
Subject: Workman's Comp
Group: S-Trains Message: 606 From: PortLines@aol.com Date: 12/6/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 65
Group: S-Trains Message: 607 From: Bilfrazier@xxx.xxx Date: 12/6/1998
Subject: Re: Ballston Loco phone #
Group: S-Trains Message: 608 From: Gerbasi Date: 12/6/1998
Subject: coal loads for hoppers
Group: S-Trains Message: 609 From: David Dewey Date: 12/6/1998
Subject: Re: coal loads for hoppers
Group: S-Trains Message: 610 From: Ken Zieska Date: 12/6/1998
Subject: Clinic for 1999
Group: S-Trains Message: 611 From: Richard Snook Date: 12/6/1998
Subject: Ertl GP35 Thanks
Group: S-Trains Message: 612 From: Mark Preman Date: 12/7/1998
Subject: Train Sets for Kids
Group: S-Trains Message: 613 From: mcwb@xxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) Date: 12/7/1998
Subject: AF Parts for Restoration Work
Group: S-Trains Message: 614 From: Steinkirchner, Alan Date: 12/7/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 66, 65 & Ballston phone number
Group: S-Trains Message: 615 From: FANN, ROBERT Date: 12/7/1998
Subject: Call for Modules
Group: S-Trains Message: 616 From: kelvin white Date: 12/7/1998
Subject: tie spacing and size for turnouts.
Group: S-Trains Message: 617 From: Richard Snook Date: 12/7/1998
Subject: Christmas Present for Proto:64 Modellers
Group: S-Trains Message: 618 From: Robin Thompson Date: 12/12/1998
Subject: Re: tie spacing and size for turnouts.
Group: S-Trains Message: 619 From: Arthur Armstrong Date: 12/8/1998
Subject: Re: Christmas Present for Proto:64 Modellers
Group: S-Trains Message: 620 From: Keith Thompson Date: 12/8/1998
Subject: Re: [Proto64] Sn3 / S
Group: S-Trains Message: 621 From: Roy Plotnick Date: 12/8/1998
Subject: S-gaugian back issues
Group: S-Trains Message: 622 From: Wayne Broadhead Date: 12/8/1998
Subject: S Helper products
Group: S-Trains Message: 623 From: Wayne Broadhead Date: 12/8/1998
Subject: AF
Group: S-Trains Message: 624 From: Wayne Broadhead Date: 12/8/1998
Subject: book list
Group: S-Trains Message: 625 From: Richard Snook Date: 12/8/1998
Subject: Modern SIG ??
Group: S-Trains Message: 626 From: Richard Snook Date: 12/8/1998
Subject: re Wayne Broadhead's How do you turn it off??
Group: S-Trains Message: 627 From: David Dewey Date: 12/8/1998
Subject: Re: AF
Group: S-Trains Message: 628 From: Gf3897@aol.com Date: 12/9/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 68
Group: S-Trains Message: 629 From: Alex Binkley Date: 12/9/1998
Subject: modern proto group
Group: S-Trains Message: 630 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 12/9/1998
Subject: the spending
Group: S-Trains Message: 631 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 12/9/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 68
Group: S-Trains Message: 632 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 12/9/1998
Subject: TURN OFF TRAINS?
Group: S-Trains Message: 633 From: L Montgomery Date: 12/9/1998
Subject: Fiber Pins
Group: S-Trains Message: 634 From: Chuck Smith Date: 12/9/1998
Subject: Re: Fiber Pins
Group: S-Trains Message: 635 From: kelvin white Date: 12/8/1998
Subject: ERTL GP 35 and a small world!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 636 From: David Dewey Date: 12/9/1998
Subject: Re: ERTL GP 35 and a small world!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 637 From: Paul Yorke Date: 12/9/1998
Subject: Modern Prototypical Scale Modeling
Group: S-Trains Message: 638 From: Richard Snook Date: 12/9/1998
Subject: re small world
Group: S-Trains Message: 639 From: Robin Thompson Date: 12/9/1998
Subject: Re: latest shipment
Group: S-Trains Message: 640 From: NYC17819@aol.com Date: 12/9/1998
Subject: AF Catalogue
Group: S-Trains Message: 641 From: TerryMacE@aol.com Date: 12/9/1998
Subject: Questions
Group: S-Trains Message: 642 From: Wayne Broadhead Date: 12/9/1998
Subject: Branford Diner
Group: S-Trains Message: 643 From: Richard Snook Date: 12/9/1998
Subject: Spare parts
Group: S-Trains Message: 644 From: Wayne Broadhead Date: 12/9/1998
Subject: e unit problem
Group: S-Trains Message: 645 From: Paul Yorke Date: 12/10/1998
Subject: Re: Questions
Group: S-Trains Message: 646 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 12/7/1998
Subject: hobble bobble Franklin
Group: S-Trains Message: 647 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 12/10/1998
Subject: misc
Group: S-Trains Message: 648 From: Haenn, Joe Date: 12/10/1998
Subject: Re: Fiber Track Pins
Group: S-Trains Message: 649 From: Roy Plotnick Date: 12/10/1998
Subject: Re: Spare parts
Group: S-Trains Message: 650 From: Mark Preman Date: 12/10/1998
Subject: Another Opportunity
Group: S-Trains Message: 651 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 12/10/1998
Subject: hobble bobble Franklin
Group: S-Trains Message: 652 From: PortLines@xxx.xxx Date: 12/10/1998
Subject: Re: Repro boxes
Group: S-Trains Message: 653 From: PortLines@xxx.xxx Date: 12/10/1998
Subject: Re: AM parts
Group: S-Trains Message: 654 From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx Date: 12/10/1998
Subject: set DIGEST
Group: S-Trains Message: 655 From: PortLines@xxx.xxx Date: 12/10/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 69
Group: S-Trains Message: 656 From: Hilary Smith Date: 12/11/1998
Subject: Re: tie spacing and size for turnouts.
Group: S-Trains Message: 657 From: gdavis@xxxxxx.xxxxxxxxx.xx Date: 12/11/1998
Subject: AM lightweight coaches
Group: S-Trains Message: 658 From: Ted Fabian Date: 12/11/1998
Subject: Season's Greetings
Group: S-Trains Message: 659 From: kelvin white Date: 12/10/1998
Subject: Re: Spare parts
Group: S-Trains Message: 660 From: L Montgomery Date: 12/11/1998
Subject: Lighted Cars Blink Too Much
Group: S-Trains Message: 661 From: Chuck Smith Date: 12/11/1998
Subject: Re: Lighted Cars Blink Too Much
Group: S-Trains Message: 662 From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade Date: 12/11/1998
Subject: Christmas Sale
Group: S-Trains Message: 663 From: Dennis Back Date: 12/11/1998
Subject: Calling the ELECTRICAL EXPERTS
Group: S-Trains Message: 664 From: Allen Evans Date: 12/11/1998
Subject: Re: Calling the ELECTRICAL EXPERTS
Group: S-Trains Message: 665 From: Allen Evans Date: 12/11/1998
Subject: More on Electrical Lighting. . .
Group: S-Trains Message: 666 From: David Dewey Date: 12/11/1998
Subject: Re: Light flickering
Group: S-Trains Message: 667 From: esquivel Date: 12/12/1998
Subject: Re: Light flickering
Group: S-Trains Message: 668 From: EMarkA@xxx.xxx Date: 12/12/1998
Subject: Christmas Sale Hudson
Group: S-Trains Message: 669 From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx Date: 12/12/1998
Subject: wiper wires
Group: S-Trains Message: 670 From: Roger Hinds Date: 12/12/1998
Subject: Lights
Group: S-Trains Message: 671 From: Curtis Johnson Date: 12/12/1998
Subject: Re: Fiber Pins
Group: S-Trains Message: 672 From: James Wysopal Date: 12/13/1998
Subject: loose engine tires
Group: S-Trains Message: 673 From: alice beachy Date: 12/12/1998
Subject: Sound for S scale Steam
Group: S-Trains Message: 674 From: Paul Yorke Date: 12/13/1998
Subject: ...take a few seconds...
Group: S-Trains Message: 675 From: Chuck Smith Date: 12/13/1998
Subject: Re: loose engine tires
Group: S-Trains Message: 676 From: Allen Evans Date: 12/13/1998
Subject: Last Word on Improving Your Lights
Group: S-Trains Message: 677 From: Robert E. Yablonski Date: 12/13/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 71
Group: S-Trains Message: 678 From: Paul Yorke Date: 12/13/1998
Subject: More S than you need.
Group: S-Trains Message: 679 From: David Dewey Date: 12/13/1998
Subject: Re: Wheel repairs
Group: S-Trains Message: 680 From: Ken Zieska Date: 12/13/1998
Subject: weekend Report
Group: S-Trains Message: 681 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 12/14/1998
Subject: clean journals
Group: S-Trains Message: 682 From: AL BABBITT (JOHN EICHMANN) Date: 12/14/1998
Subject: 1/64 Vehicles etc.
Group: S-Trains Message: 683 From: Kimball, Bob (PB) Date: 12/14/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 70
Group: S-Trains Message: 684 From: Keith B. Thompson - Sun Date: 12/14/1998
Subject: Re: Welcome to S-Trains@onelist.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 685 From: Paul Yorke Date: 12/14/1998
Subject: Two Address list problem
Group: S-Trains Message: 686 From: PatnDave Date: 12/14/1998
Subject: Tamalco for SALE
Group: S-Trains Message: 687 From: Robin Thompson Date: 12/14/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 70
Group: S-Trains Message: 688 From: Robin Thompson Date: 12/14/1998
Subject: Re: Tamalco for SALE
Group: S-Trains Message: 689 From: GPMLG@aol.com Date: 12/14/1998
Subject: stripping paint/chrome
Group: S-Trains Message: 690 From: EMarkA@aol.com Date: 12/14/1998
Subject: For Sale Update
Group: S-Trains Message: 691 From: aleisen@xxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) Date: 12/15/1998
Subject: WTB
Group: S-Trains Message: 692 From: Mark Preman Date: 12/15/1998
Subject: ANNOUNCEMENT (Trains of Course)
Group: S-Trains Message: 693 From: LEAHY RUTH A Date: 12/15/1998
Subject: Traintracker
Group: S-Trains Message: 694 From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx Date: 12/15/1998
Subject: Re: Traintracker
Group: S-Trains Message: 695 From: John Foley Date: 12/15/1998
Subject: Volunteer
Group: S-Trains Message: 696 From: Jeffrey Tangeman Date: 12/15/1998
Subject: L-Flyer engines in Charles Ro ad
Group: S-Trains Message: 697 From: NYC17819@xxx.xxx Date: 12/15/1998
Subject: Tie Spacing
Group: S-Trains Message: 698 From: David Dewey Date: 12/15/1998
Subject: Re: Tie Spacing
Group: S-Trains Message: 699 From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx Date: 12/16/1998
Subject: Tie spacing info, realism compromise
Group: S-Trains Message: 700 From: BenTrous@xxx.xxx Date: 12/16/1998
Subject: Flickering Lights
Group: S-Trains Message: 701 From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx Date: 12/16/1998
Subject: US Postal Service Equipment
Group: S-Trains Message: 702 From: RWJW3@xxx.xxx Date: 12/16/1998
Subject: Re: L-Flyer engines in Charles Ro ad
Group: S-Trains Message: 703 From: Barbara Bogert Date: 12/16/1998
Subject: Re: mark's site
Group: S-Trains Message: 704 From: TerryMacE@xxx.xxx Date: 12/16/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 75
Group: S-Trains Message: 705 From: JHAUGH12 Date: 12/16/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 75
Group: S-Trains Message: 706 From: Allen Evans Date: 12/16/1998
Subject: 12 ASCII DAYS OF CHRISTMAS
Group: S-Trains Message: 707 From: Keith Thompson Date: 12/16/1998
Subject: Re: US Postal Service Equipment
Group: S-Trains Message: 708 From: PortLines@aol.com Date: 12/16/1998
Subject: Re: Ro
Group: S-Trains Message: 709 From: John Date: 12/16/1998
Subject: 371 Deisel, and other units with this type motor
Group: S-Trains Message: 710 From: William Horzempa Date: 12/16/1998
Subject: Train TRacker
Group: S-Trains Message: 711 From: Dennis Back Date: 12/16/1998
Subject: Wanted: repro AF TRACK GANG
Group: S-Trains Message: 712 From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com Date: 12/17/1998
Subject: "L"-cheapo's
Group: S-Trains Message: 713 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 12/17/1998
Subject: hot 371
Group: S-Trains Message: 714 From: Mark Preman Date: 12/17/1998
Subject: To the Bogerts
Group: S-Trains Message: 715 From: BBENN1147@xxx.xxx Date: 12/17/1998
Subject: Re: Welcome to S-Trains@onelist.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 716 From: bellokdaka@xxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxx) Date: 12/17/1998
Subject: S' scale and American Flyer® compatible trains - Re: Dry transfer
Group: S-Trains Message: 717 From: bellokdaka@xxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxx) Date: 12/17/1998
Subject: Dry Transfers
Group: S-Trains Message: 718 From: lois ponton Date: 12/17/1998
Subject: flyer atlantic
Group: S-Trains Message: 719 From: Jeffrey Tangeman Date: 12/17/1998
Subject: joys of wiring small layouts
Group: S-Trains Message: 720 From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx Date: 12/18/1998
Subject: Short box cars
Group: S-Trains Message: 721 From: Roy Plotnick Date: 12/18/1998
Subject: 322 SIT derails
Group: S-Trains Message: 722 From: L Montgomery Date: 12/18/1998
Subject: Lubricating Journals
Group: S-Trains Message: 723 From: PortLines@xxx.xxx Date: 12/18/1998
Subject: Re: AF relettering
Group: S-Trains Message: 724 From: PortLines@xxx.xxx Date: 12/18/1998
Subject: Re: 21160
Group: S-Trains Message: 725 From: Paul Yorke Date: 12/18/1998
Subject: S-Trains Update
Group: S-Trains Message: 726 From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx Date: 12/18/1998
Subject: ties
Group: S-Trains Message: 727 From: kelvin white Date: 12/18/1998
Subject: tie spacing and size for turnouts.
Group: S-Trains Message: 728 From: Keith Thompson Date: 12/18/1998
Subject: L.A. area S scale shops
Group: S-Trains Message: 729 From: Dennis Back Date: 12/18/1998
Subject: Santa Claus Injured by AF 322
Group: S-Trains Message: 730 From: Bilfrazier@xxx.xxx Date: 12/19/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 78
Group: S-Trains Message: 731 From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx Date: 12/19/1998
Subject: Several Replies
Group: S-Trains Message: 732 From: Robin Thompson Date: 12/19/1998
Subject: Re: L.A. area S scale shops
Group: S-Trains Message: 733 From: Paul Yorke Date: 12/19/1998
Subject: Survey Results
Group: S-Trains Message: 734 From: Alex Binkley Date: 12/19/1998
Subject: AF in Toronto
Group: S-Trains Message: 735 From: Alex Binkley Date: 12/19/1998
Subject: We're back
Group: S-Trains Message: 736 From: Alex Binkley Date: 12/19/1998
Subject: Hey John Tomlins
Group: S-Trains Message: 737 From: Alex Binkley Date: 12/19/1998
Subject: another recruit
Group: S-Trains Message: 738 From: Alex Binkley Date: 12/19/1998
Subject: Blue Mountain hopper loads
Group: S-Trains Message: 739 From: Keith Thompson Date: 12/19/1998
Subject: Re: L.A. area S scale shops
Group: S-Trains Message: 740 From: Gerbasi Date: 12/20/1998
Subject: "cool" stuff at Target
Group: S-Trains Message: 741 From: jim Date: 12/20/1998
Subject: Made in China?
Group: S-Trains Message: 742 From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx Date: 12/20/1998
Subject: PacRail
Group: S-Trains Message: 743 From: Alex Binkley Date: 12/20/1998
Subject: First modern prototype newsletter
Group: S-Trains Message: 744 From: Paul Yorke Date: 12/20/1998
Subject: Off subject - Web site development
Group: S-Trains Message: 745 From: LEAHY RUTH A Date: 12/20/1998
Subject: A.F. Eastwood truck
Group: S-Trains Message: 746 From: Arthur Armstrong Date: 12/20/1998
Subject: Re: Made in China?
Group: S-Trains Message: 747 From: Vic Bereskin Date: 12/20/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 79
Group: S-Trains Message: 748 From: Fred Alles Date: 12/20/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 79
Group: S-Trains Message: 749 From: Robin Thompson Date: 12/20/1998
Subject: Re: "S" made in China?
Group: S-Trains Message: 750 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 12/20/1998
Subject: BEST MAG FOR PROMOTING?
Group: S-Trains Message: 751 From: Richard Snook Date: 12/20/1998
Subject: "S" mags
Group: S-Trains Message: 752 From: Ken Zieska Date: 12/20/1998
Subject: Minnesota Heartland Western Division Weekend report
Group: S-Trains Message: 753 From: John Date: 12/20/1998
Subject: Reversing Units
Group: S-Trains Message: 754 From: Arthur Armstrong Date: 12/20/1998
Subject: Re: "S" made in China?
Group: S-Trains Message: 755 From: Arthur Armstrong Date: 12/20/1998
Subject: Re: "S" mags
Group: S-Trains Message: 756 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 12/21/1998
Subject: 322 derails
Group: S-Trains Message: 757 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 12/21/1998
Subject: rev unit and lube
Group: S-Trains Message: 758 From: Keith Thompson Date: 12/21/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 79
Group: S-Trains Message: 759 From: L Montgomery Date: 12/21/1998
Subject: Re: Cool Stuff at Target
Group: S-Trains Message: 760 From: Richard Snook Date: 12/21/1998
Subject: DCC and Y2K
Group: S-Trains Message: 761 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 12/21/1998
Subject: S Gaugian/S Scale
Group: S-Trains Message: 762 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 12/21/1998
Subject: ANY MODULES GOING TO THE CONVENTION?
Group: S-Trains Message: 763 From: Paul Yorke Date: 12/21/1998
Subject: S-Mod
Group: S-Trains Message: 764 From: Richard Snook Date: 12/21/1998
Subject: Re: DCC and Y2K
Group: S-Trains Message: 765 From: Paul Yorke Date: 12/21/1998
Subject: New Data
Group: S-Trains Message: 766 From: GPMLG@xxx.xxx Date: 12/21/1998
Subject: 332 Silver lettering ?
Group: S-Trains Message: 767 From: NYC17819@xxx.xxx Date: 12/21/1998
Subject: #8 Turnout ties
Group: S-Trains Message: 768 From: Ken Zieska Date: 12/21/1998
Subject: Ertl
Group: S-Trains Message: 769 From: Russcalla@xxx.xxx Date: 12/21/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 80
Group: S-Trains Message: 770 From: Wayne Broadhead Date: 12/21/1998
Subject: LA stores
Group: S-Trains Message: 771 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 12/21/1998
Subject: MADE IN CHINA?
Group: S-Trains Message: 772 From: Arthur Armstrong Date: 12/21/1998
Subject: Pre-1940 trucks
Group: S-Trains Message: 773 From: David Dewey Date: 12/21/1998
Subject: Re: 332 Silver lettering ?
Group: S-Trains Message: 774 From: kelvin white Date: 12/22/1998
Subject: Doghouses
Group: S-Trains Message: 775 From: kelvin white Date: 12/22/1998
Subject: #8 Turnout ties and a new S scale turnout
Group: S-Trains Message: 776 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 12/22/1998
Subject: Gunk Super Oil
Group: S-Trains Message: 777 From: Chuck Smith Date: 12/22/1998
Subject: Re: 332 Silver lettering ?
Group: S-Trains Message: 778 From: Chuck Smith Date: 12/22/1998
Subject: Re: Doghouses
Group: S-Trains Message: 779 From: David Dewey Date: 12/22/1998
Subject: Re: Doghouses
Group: S-Trains Message: 780 From: Daniel Neumayer Date: 12/22/1998
Subject: S Guage in Baltimore
Group: S-Trains Message: 781 From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx Date: 12/22/1998
Subject: Railway crossing signals
Group: S-Trains Message: 782 From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx Date: 12/22/1998
Subject: 40's and 50's autos avail now
Group: S-Trains Message: 783 From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx Date: 12/22/1998
Subject: Modules???
Group: S-Trains Message: 784 From: Richard Snook Date: 12/22/1998
Subject: re Crossing signals
Group: S-Trains Message: 785 From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx Date: 12/22/1998
Subject: S-scale magazines
Group: S-Trains Message: 786 From: Richard Snook Date: 12/22/1998
Subject: Mag choice!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 787 From: James R. Schiele Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Flyer Christmas Car
Group: S-Trains Message: 788 From: alice beachy Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Merry Christmas
Group: S-Trains Message: 789 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 12/17/1998
Subject: hot 371
Group: S-Trains Message: 790 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 12/17/1998
Subject: "L"-cheapo's
Group: S-Trains Message: 791 From: Roger Petrella Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: AF knuckle coupler problems
Group: S-Trains Message: 792 From: Theodore Fabian Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Re: AF knuckle coupler problems
Group: S-Trains Message: 793 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: THE MODULE CONCEPT
Group: S-Trains Message: 794 From: HSage3@xxx.xxx Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Re: Mag choice!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 795 From: JOHN EICHMANN Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Post Office Paint Schemes
Group: S-Trains Message: 796 From: Gregg Mummert Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Layouts, etc
Group: S-Trains Message: 797 From: Chuck Smith Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Re: AF knuckle coupler problems
Group: S-Trains Message: 798 From: Chuck Smith Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Re: Modules???
Group: S-Trains Message: 799 From: Roger Hinds Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Reverse units
Group: S-Trains Message: 800 From: Roger Hinds Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Loners
Group: S-Trains Message: 801 From: John Foley Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Happy Holidays
Group: S-Trains Message: 802 From: Tom Hutton Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Re: Loners
Group: S-Trains Message: 803 From: Richard Snook Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Rudolf's ramblings...
Group: S-Trains Message: 804 From: Paul Yorke Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Another DB Update
Group: S-Trains Message: 805 From: Dennis Back Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Link Coupler Problem
Group: S-Trains Message: 806 From: LEAHY RUTH A Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Collector
Group: S-Trains Message: 807 From: Chas Cacioppo Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Trainsets and Xmas Trains...
Group: S-Trains Message: 808 From: mhrreast@juno.com Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Trackwork & China
Group: S-Trains Message: 809 From: Chas Cacioppo Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Model Railroad Chat on Miningco Now
Group: S-Trains Message: 810 From: David Dewey Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Re: Link Coupler Problem
Group: S-Trains Message: 811 From: John Foley Date: 12/24/1998
Subject: New S brass
Group: S-Trains Message: 812 From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx Date: 12/24/1998
Subject: 3-in-one oil
Group: S-Trains Message: 813 From: PatnDave Date: 12/24/1998
Subject: Drawing Roller Bearing Truck
Group: S-Trains Message: 814 From: PortLines@xxx.xxx Date: 12/24/1998
Subject: Re: "The Collector"
Group: S-Trains Message: 815 From: PortLines@xxx.xxx Date: 12/24/1998
Subject: Re: Xmas gondola
Group: S-Trains Message: 816 From: Wayne Broadhead Date: 12/24/1998
Subject: "The Collector"
Group: S-Trains Message: 817 From: Wayne Broadhead Date: 12/24/1998
Subject: Merry Christmas
Group: S-Trains Message: 818 From: Bill Porter Date: 12/24/1998
Subject: Re: 3-in-one oil
Group: S-Trains Message: 819 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 12/24/1998
Subject: Merry Couplers
Group: S-Trains Message: 820 From: Ken Zieska Date: 12/24/1998
Subject: Locos
Group: S-Trains Message: 821 From: jim Date: 12/25/1998
Subject: Bachman On30 set
Group: S-Trains Message: 822 From: kelvin white Date: 12/25/1998
Subject: Doghouses on the C&NW
Group: S-Trains Message: 823 From: kelvin white Date: 12/25/1998
Subject: Re: Bachman On30 set
Group: S-Trains Message: 824 From: Ken Zieska Date: 12/25/1998
Subject: Ford Tractors
Group: S-Trains Message: 825 From: John Foley Date: 12/25/1998
Subject: New Brass Thanks
Group: S-Trains Message: 826 From: kelvin white Date: 12/25/1998
Subject: New small steam brass
Group: S-Trains Message: 827 From: Daniel Neumayer Date: 12/25/1998
Subject: Re: New Brass Thanks
Group: S-Trains Message: 828 From: Daniel Neumayer Date: 12/25/1998
Subject: L-AF Dummy Diesels, smooth rolling?
Group: S-Trains Message: 829 From: kelvin white Date: 12/25/1998
Subject: Re: New Brass Thanks
Group: S-Trains Message: 830 From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx Date: 12/25/1998
Subject: S Gaugian
Group: S-Trains Message: 831 From: Bill Porter Date: 12/25/1998
Subject: S-Gaugian
Group: S-Trains Message: 832 From: Skip Mersereau Date: 12/26/1998
Subject: Re: [Proto64] [S-Trains] New small steam brass
Group: S-Trains Message: 833 From: kelvin white Date: 12/26/1998
Subject: [Proto64] MPSM modern Shortline modelling
Group: S-Trains Message: 834 From: PatnDave Date: 12/26/1998
Subject: A Roller Bearing truck for S scale
Group: S-Trains Message: 835 From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx Date: 12/26/1998
Subject: Re: Hotwheels
Group: S-Trains Message: 836 From: John Foley Date: 12/26/1998
Subject: Southwind
Group: S-Trains Message: 837 From: John Foley Date: 12/26/1998
Subject: Great American Train show
Group: S-Trains Message: 838 From: joes-train-repair@xxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: 12/26/1998
Subject: S Mags Circulation
Group: S-Trains Message: 839 From: Daniel Neumayer Date: 12/26/1998
Subject: Wheel Puller needed
Group: S-Trains Message: 840 From: Boss31@xxx.xxx Date: 12/26/1998
Subject: Re: S-Gaugian
Group: S-Trains Message: 841 From: Jeffrey Tangeman Date: 12/26/1998
Subject: Flyer parts vendors wanted
Group: S-Trains Message: 842 From: M. McConnell Date: 12/26/1998
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains Message: 843 From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton Date: 12/26/1998
Subject: S Gaugian as a a Scale Publication
Group: S-Trains Message: 844 From: PatnDave Date: 12/27/1998
Subject: A Roller Bearing truck for S scale
Group: S-Trains Message: 845 From: kelvin white Date: 12/27/1998
Subject: USRA gang of 100
Group: S-Trains Message: 846 From: PortLines@xxx.xxx Date: 12/27/1998
Subject: Re: Wheel puller
Group: S-Trains Message: 847 From: paul1049 Date: 12/27/1998
Subject: "B" unit horn
Group: S-Trains Message: 848 From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade Date: 12/27/1998
Subject: Re: USRA gang of 100
Group: S-Trains Message: 849 From: Daniel Neumayer Date: 12/27/1998
Subject: Re: USRA gang of 100
Group: S-Trains Message: 850 From: Alex Binkley Date: 12/27/1998
Subject: small steamers
Group: S-Trains Message: 851 From: Ken Zieska Date: 12/27/1998
Subject: Gang of 100
Group: S-Trains Message: 852 From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx Date: 12/28/1998
Subject: vehicles/steam engines
Group: S-Trains Message: 853 From: PortLines@xxx.xxx Date: 12/28/1998
Subject: Re: NASG cars
Group: S-Trains Message: 854 From: Barbara Bogert Date: 12/28/1998
Subject: Gilbert horse race toy?
Group: S-Trains Message: 855 From: Keith Thompson Date: 12/28/1998
Subject: Re: NASG cars
Group: S-Trains Message: 856 From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx Date: 12/28/1998
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains Message: 857 From: John Foley Date: 12/28/1998
Subject: New Brass
Group: S-Trains Message: 858 From: Barbara Bogert Date: 12/28/1998
Subject: thanks
Group: S-Trains Message: 859 From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx Date: 12/28/1998
Subject: Ref. NASG CARS
Group: S-Trains Message: 860 From: Paul Yorke Date: 12/28/1998
Subject: I want your Input!
Group: S-Trains Message: 861 From: David Dewey Date: 12/28/1998
Subject: Re: Gilbert horse race toy?
Group: S-Trains Message: 862 From: PortLines@xxx.xxx Date: 12/29/1998
Subject: Re: Sulkie set
Group: S-Trains Message: 863 From: PortLines@xxx.xxx Date: 12/29/1998
Subject: Re: S publications
Group: S-Trains Message: 864 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 12/29/1998
Subject: HORSE & SULKY
Group: S-Trains Message: 865 From: Michael Greene Date: 12/29/1998
Subject: 1:64 Vanguards Diecast vehicles
Group: S-Trains Message: 866 From: John Foley Date: 12/29/1998
Subject: NASG
Group: S-Trains Message: 867 From: John Foley Date: 12/29/1998
Subject: 3rd Rail
Group: S-Trains Message: 868 From: Tuson, Earl Date: 12/29/1998
Subject: FW: New S decal source
Group: S-Trains Message: 869 From: Paul Yorke Date: 12/29/1998
Subject: Results update
Group: S-Trains Message: 870 From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx Date: 12/29/1998
Subject: Hmmmm. Lotsa STUFF? and choices---
Group: S-Trains Message: 871 From: Arthur Armstrong Date: 12/29/1998
Subject: Re: Hmmmm. Lotsa STUFF? and choices---
Group: S-Trains Message: 872 From: Chuck Smith Date: 12/29/1998
Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: [S-Trains] Gilbert horse race toy?]]
Group: S-Trains Message: 873 From: Chuck Smith Date: 12/29/1998
Subject: Re: Hmmmm. Lotsa STUFF? and choices---
Group: S-Trains Message: 874 From: NYC17819@xxx.xxx Date: 12/29/1998
Subject: Wheel pullers
Group: S-Trains Message: 875 From: kelvin white Date: 12/29/1998
Subject: Re: 1:64 Vanguards Diecast vehicles
Group: S-Trains Message: 876 From: Keith Thompson Date: 12/30/1998
Subject: Re: 1:64 Vanguards Diecast vehicles
Group: S-Trains Message: 877 From: Keith Thompson Date: 12/30/1998
Subject: The Minnesota Heartland in print
Group: S-Trains Message: 878 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 12/30/1998
Subject: 3 in 1
Group: S-Trains Message: 879 From: RobertE613@xxx.xxx Date: 12/30/1998
Subject: Re: [Hmmmm. Lotsa STUFF? and choices---
Group: S-Trains Message: 880 From: David Dewey Date: 12/30/1998
Subject: Backing up through switches
Group: S-Trains Message: 881 From: David Dewey Date: 12/30/1998
Subject: Re: Hmmmm. Lotsa STUFF? and choices---
Group: S-Trains Message: 882 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 12/30/1998
Subject: Chromed Crusader
Group: S-Trains Message: 883 From: Keith Thompson Date: 12/30/1998
Subject: Re: Furbies
Group: S-Trains Message: 884 From: PatnDave Date: 12/30/1998
Subject: Fw: [S-Trains] New Brass
Group: S-Trains Message: 885 From: John Foley Date: 12/30/1998
Subject: Foley again
Group: S-Trains Message: 886 From: Curtis Johnson Date: 12/30/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 83
Group: S-Trains Message: 887 From: seg@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) Date: 12/30/1998
Subject: Moreau CTT interview
Group: S-Trains Message: 888 From: Paul Yorke Date: 12/31/1998
Subject: Linked web address
Group: S-Trains Message: 889 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 12/31/1998
Subject: Hello in Florida
Group: S-Trains Message: 890 From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton Date: 12/31/1998
Subject: Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 891 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 12/31/1998
Subject: CRUSADER & 3rd RAIL
Group: S-Trains Message: 892 From: Thompson, Keith Date: 12/31/1998
Subject: FW: Stock Market Report
Group: S-Trains Message: 893 From: Jacques Ollivier Date: 12/31/1998
Subject: Tonka trucks
Group: S-Trains Message: 894 From: David Dewey Date: 12/31/1998
Subject: Re: Tonka trucks
Group: S-Trains Message: 895 From: Roger Hinds Date: 12/31/1998
Subject: Track porducts
Group: S-Trains Message: 896 From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx Date: 12/31/1998
Subject: S Mod
Group: S-Trains Message: 897 From: Keith Thompson Date: 12/31/1998
Subject: Re: Tonka trucks



Group: S-Trains Message: 1 From: Paul Yorke Date: 9/26/1998
Subject: First new message on S-Trains 'onelist'
Well I found out about this list server from one of the S-Trains list
subscribers.
Lets hope it all works out.
I subscribed everybody in the 'Digest" mode. If you would like to
change that you can visit the OneList site at http://www.onelist.com
If you are a Juno person , I can do it for you, just let me know.
I make some more adjustments to the S-Trains info page at
http://www.gate.net/~yorke/smail.htm.
---------------------------
Now maybe I can take some time to hook up my new transformer.

To submit a note to the list , send it to S-Trains@onelist.com.

I have configured the list in such a way that the "reply" button will
direct the reply message to the individual, not the list.

--
Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl.
American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers
http://www.gate.net/~yorke (alt e-mail paulyork@...)
Group: S-Trains Message: 2 From: Roger Hinds Date: 9/26/1998
Subject: Re: You have been added to S-Trains@onelist.com
ONElist wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> This is the ONElist Mailing List Communities service.
>
> You have been added by the moderators to the following list:
>
> S-Trains
> S-Scale and S-Gauge model railroad topics. 'S' is generally linked to American Flyer. Recently more manufacturers have produced a wide array of S products. Keywords= Trains, toys, S gauge, S scale, A C Gilbert
>
> Email Address: cofa@...
> Password: S-Trains
>
> Here is a welcome message provided by the list moderators:
>
> -------------
>
> Welcome to the S-Trains ONElist mailing list. To unsubscribe from this list visit the http://www.onelist.com/ web site or sent a note to me (Paul Yorke) at Yo
>
> -------------
>
> If you do not wish to be on this list, you can remove yourself by
> replying to this message. Use the Reply function of your email program
> and send us a blank message. It will automatically be sent to the correct
> email address.
>
> If you have any questions about the list or your subscription, please
> contact the list managers. You can email them at the following email
> address:
>
> S-Trains-owner@onelist.com
>
> ONElist has a strict anti-spam policy. If you feel that the list owners
> violated that policy by subscribing you to this list, please send an
> email to abuse@onelist.com.
>
> Now that you are subscribed, you can send email to the list through
> the following email address:
>
> S-Trains@onelist.com
>
> Messages sent to that address will be sent to all other subscribers.
>
> To subscribe to new lists, change your current subscriptions to digest, or
> start new lists, please visit the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com,
> and click on the User Center link on the menu bar. When logging in, use
> the password listed above.
>
> The ONElist Team


ONElist Team;

Happy to be on the on the list. Provided it is only for "S" guagers.

Note: Your automatic return is not recognized by Netscape Navigator.
Your Note was one big long line left to right. Using a hard
return when you get
to the right of the window just might work. Just thought you
would like to know.

Roger
Group: S-Trains Message: 3 From: esquivel Date: 9/26/1998
Subject: talking station
hello out there, i hope this is working. i am new to hobby and will be
watching your messages to hopefully learn something. does anyone have an
extra speaker with needle to make my station talk.
thanks for your help.
esquivel
Group: S-Trains Message: 4 From: Ken Zieska Date: 9/26/1998
Subject: S Test
This is a test to see if the Minnesota Heartland Railway is able to send
a message to the new S mail. Hope so. By the way, my last message
that got lost in the crash mentioned that I was building the new 3 bay
version of the S Helper Service PS-2 that will be our 1999 convention
car. It is a beautiful model, not as tall and a bit shorter than the
American Models car. It adds nice variety to a grain train and one of
the PPSSW members noted that it will look better next to his AF cars. I
guess that will be personal taste but be sure you get a Minneapolis and
St. Louis two pack from the 1999 NASG Convention next spring.
Ken Z.
Group: S-Trains Message: 5 From: David Dewey Date: 9/26/1998
Subject: List test; track trips
HI all, Well we'll see how this one works.
A question has been brought up on the Toytrains list about track trips,
especially the 696. The poster commented that the price of said trips is
becoming prohibitive, and wonders if anyone is reproing them. Seems like a
good question. Except for the shoe, the rest of the parts are stampings,
relatively inexpensive to tool. (note the term relatively!!). So, Doug, et
al, what's happenin' man??? (Hey, aren't the 60s back in now??)
S'
David
Group: S-Trains Message: 6 From: Alex Binkley Date: 9/27/1998
Subject: military vehicles
a hobby shop in Ottawa has a line of 1/72 scale military vehicles. think
it's called Victoria. Includes modern and WW2 stuff from what I can tell.
While it obviously isn't 1/64, do folks think 1/72 is close enough to cut
it on S scale layouts. had some nice hummers and other equipment done up
for the UN

--
Alex Binkley
Hammond, Ont., Canada
<a href="mailto:alex.binkley@..." </a>
Group: S-Trains Message: 7 From: Paul Yorke Date: 9/27/1998
Subject: New List
Well thanks to all for your patients.
Remember to use the new address when sending to the list.
S-Trains@onelist.com
I switched all the non-digest folks from the old list over to non-digest
mode this morning.
This list does not have a 'both' option, so you either get individual
notes or digest notes.
If you want both, I suggest you have the digest sent to a yahoo or
netscape web mail account.
To sign up for Yahoo web mail go to http://edit.my.yahoo.com/config
or Netscape mail goto http://webmail.netscape.com
(If you alread have more than one mail account you would not need a
webmail account.)
Let me know if you need any changes on your account.

This list also allows you to stop the mail when you want, without
unsubscribing. Great for vacations.

There is also an archive. It can be viewed at http://www.onelist.com
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I installed my 12b (dual transformer) yesterday. I now can handle 3
train operation. I tried 4 train, but my outside loop is not long
enough. (oops) Or my trains are too long??



--
Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl.
American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers
http://www.gate.net/~yorke (alt e-mail paulyork@...)
Group: S-Trains Message: 8 From: Chuck Smith Date: 9/27/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 0
S-Trains@onelist.com wrote:
>
This is testing my ability to send to this new group.

As a tip, I finally found out why my L AF Northern Pacific seemed to
have a touchy e-unit. Sudden reversals at full speed were due the metal
couplers bring a hair too low and the actuators occasionally kissing
thew switch frogs. Once I made sure all couplers were high enough the
problem was solved. I actually had to shim the 2 A unit bodies up a
washer thickness to allow the couplers to be raised enough.
--
"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers and the
S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith
Group: S-Trains Message: 9 From: PortLines@xxx.xxx Date: 9/27/1998
Subject: Re: New Tooling
In a message dated 9/27/98 8:20:54 AM, you wrote:

<<The poster commented that the price of said trips is

becoming prohibitive, and wonders if anyone is reproing them. Seems like a

good question. Except for the shoe, the rest of the parts are stampings,

relatively inexpensive to tool. (note the term relatively!!). So, Doug, et

al, what's happenin' man??? >>

Well.....I'll tell you what........I'm in the process RIGHT NOW of getting a
quote for tooling for two different black plastic parts. I can probably get
this shoe added to the mold for very little more. Let me check it out!
BTW.......I've given the go-ahead for production of four somewhat-elusive
parts for the All-Aboard Scenic Panels: the streetlight, the stopsign, the
long picket fence, and the RR Xng. Should have these available within a
couple of months!
Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)
Port Lines Hobby Supply
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Port Lines @ aol.com http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 10 From: kelvin white Date: 9/27/1998
Subject: Replies and M&StL hoppers
In message <906898706.16029@onelist.com>, S-Trains@onelist.com writes
>I have configured the list in such a way that the "reply" button will
>direct the reply message to the individual, not the list.
I'm not sure tis is true, when I hit reply it came up with
S-Trains@onelist.com on my `mail to' box, ... we'ill see.

>I was building the new 3 bay
>version of the S Helper Service PS-2 that will be our 1999 convention
>car.
.....
> be sure you get a Minneapolis and
>St. Louis two pack from the 1999 NASG Convention next spring.
>Ken Z.
>
Hi Ken
I presume these are light grey with large M&STL on the LH side and the
name in full in a white band on the RH side - ie as the 2 bay PS2s? If
not what is the paint scheme? and from what date?

All you need now is Ron S to produce some decals for the GP9s, SD7s and
F3s ...

Best regards
--
Kelvin White
Oxford England
Group: S-Trains Message: 11 From: PortLines@xxx.xxx Date: 9/27/1998
Subject: Re: AF can motor transplants
In a message dated 9/27/98 10:48:20 AM, you wrote:

<< This has piqued my interest in converting my Flyer Atlantic and Pacific =
to a universal (AC/DC) can motor.
I would appreciate any comments and suggestions, both positive and =
negative, regarding a motor transplant.
What motors are available, what prices and any insight from anyone who =
has done this or even considered such a task?
Would it be possible to get can motors with the same shaft size as =
Flyer motors and just change out worm gears? Or, replace whole gear =
assemblies?
>>
American Highrail makes, for about $40, a can-motor replacement for AF. It has
a mounting bracket already attached, to mount it right on the AF chassis, and
it has a wormdrive gearshaft already installed. Have had no dissatisfaction
with sales of it. The one problem is availability.......it can be a LONG wait!
Unfortunately, I have none in stock right now, although I have some on order.
Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)
Port Lines Hobby Supply
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Port Lines @ aol.com http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 12 From: Donald E. Munsey, Jr. Date: 9/28/1998
Subject: Re: AF can motor transplants
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 14:04:22 EDT
> From: PortLines@...
> Subject: Re: AF can motor transplants
>
> In a message dated 9/27/98 10:48:20 AM, you wrote:
>
> << This has piqued my interest in converting my Flyer Atlantic and Pacific =
> to a universal (AC/DC) can motor.
> I would appreciate any comments and suggestions, both positive and =
> negative, regarding a motor transplant.
> What motors are available, what prices and any insight from anyone who =
> has done this or even considered such a task?
> Would it be possible to get can motors with the same shaft size as =
> Flyer motors and just change out worm gears? Or, replace whole gear =
> assemblies?
> >>
Check out S-Gaugian for Jan/Feb 1983. On page 32, R Brooks Stover of
Buffalo Creek & Gauley fame has an article entitled "Installing can
motors in AF locos". Only one small machining required and the original
motor/motor mount is not affected, in case you want to restore the loco
later. Hope this helps!

Don Munsey, Jr.
WEST MONROE, LA
Group: S-Trains Message: 13 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 9/28/1998
Subject: 302AC on a 303
Is the shell of a single piece die cast metal 302AC compatible with the
mechanism of an otherwise plastic-bodied 303? The 303 runs and looks
great, but its the engine I got for my first Christmas. We presently run
our equipment pretty avidly. The occasional wreck happens (also just like
the real thing). I'd like to reduce the risk of busting a step, etc. on
this engine if possible, yet we have a "no shelf-ware" policy. (After all,
they're trains, not trophies). There's a 302AC shell for sale, so I
thought this might be a nice way to "preserve" my 303, while at the same
time keep it running. Thanks in advance for your help.

Where there's smoke, there's Flyer.
Group: S-Trains Message: 14 From: Richard Snook Date: 9/28/1998
Subject: Proto: 64
G'Day all,

Is there currently a PROTO: 64 SIG or similar, or is anyone interested in sharing an experiences in this area??

regards

Richard Snook
Frankston, AUSTRALIA
Group: S-Trains Message: 15 From: Richard Snook Date: 9/28/1998
Subject: Modern era
G'Day all

Would certainly welcome hearing from any one modelling modern era 80/90's.


regards

Richard Snook

Frankston, AUSTRALIA
Group: S-Trains Message: 16 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 9/29/1998
Subject: BAAFC
John Foley wrote in asking who to contact at the Baltimore Area American
Flyer Club. Ron Kolb (301) 596-7797, or Monte Heppe (410) 255-0629.
They're the names on a flyer I picked up recently at a show at which they
had their layout on display. Fun layout. One club member virtually put on
an accessories show for my kids and me - - log loader, car unloader, coal
loader, saw mill and board loader - - great fun! I believe Bob Tufts is
also a member. I sent this is as a note because I haven't yet received my
digest to reply to. I hope it reaches everyone, especially you John. 'Til
next time, stay awake at the throttle...
Group: S-Trains Message: 17 From: Mark Preman Date: 9/29/1998
Subject: American Flyer Trains for Sale-October List
The new list is up (thanks to Paul Yorke)and has a
lot of variety. I also lowered some prices on slow
moving items. All this and the stock market is up
too! Happy hunting. Mark

http://members.tripod.com/~amerflyer
Group: S-Trains Message: 18 From: Bill & Diane Wade Date: 9/29/1998
Subject: Cleaning Out Sale
Howdy Friends

We are cleaning up the shop and have found a few things that need a good
home! Low quantity - low prices - ready to ship!

Hartoy P.E.M.s - 45' trailers with tractors - These were used for
display at the last few conventions and have shop-worn boxes, and in
most cases, a blemish on one side of the truck from all the handling. We
have 21 assorted tractor-trailers at $15.00 each - as is, no duplicates.
Regular price is $48.00!
(If ya ask us about the availability of specific lettering or
tractor types, and we need to go out and list the names and tractor
types, the price will go up to $20.00 each! )


American Models - Undec 4-6-2 scale - mint - $300.00

American Models - Hirail DC - GG-1 - Red - $180.00

American Models - Hirail - 50' Boxcars - $20.00 each
Tropicana (4), D&RGW (2), Raillink (2)

American Models - Hirail - PS2CD - $25.00 each.
BN (1), Cargill (2), CNW (3)


Shipping is $4.50 per order. VISA, MasterCard, Discover, American
Express accepted.


Thanks,
Bill

--
=============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================
Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer
Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218
B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com
S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com
Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 19 From: Richard Snook Date: 9/29/1998
Subject: PROTO:64
To all

I recently posted a message asking for interest in PROTO: 64.
In response to a suggestion by Paul Yorke, maybe a description of "PROTO" is warranted.

PROTO: 64

I suppose generally it is about maintaining a fidelity to PROTOTYPE practices, in particular as it applies to the standards modelers use for Track and Wheels. I won't repeat here, that which can be obtained at other sites ( NMRA amongst others), though it generally describes an adherence to dimensions in keeping with 12""to foot practices.

Modelers have historically, for a number of reasons, used equipment that have out of proportion flanges running on larger (taller, thicker) rail than is correct for the scale.

Over the years various like-minded modelers have evolved a set of practices and standards that set out to emulate the real thing. This caused much heartache and frustration initially as people tried sourcing wheels with the correct flange and rail components with different tolerances to the convention of the day. Early doomsayers would have you believe that this courted trouble in the areas of keeping trains on tracks etc. It is true to say that track laying has to be pretty well spot on, but all in all if gone about properly a layout utilizing the PROTO concept is no less/more reliable. I know ther is more to it, but I'm trying to keep this outline to a general description.

Basically PROTO is just another path for modelers to consider. Not for everyone, but an interesting and enjoyable approach none the less.

The "64 " aspect is self-evident, it refers to the chosen scale; "S" or 1/64.

There is a growing list of manufacturers wishing to provide for the PROTO modeler, and most fortunately for the PROTO:64 venturer, prototype dimensions for "S" are mostly within the NMRA standards for HO. That is to say there are a lot of resources from a brother scale that might be re-employed for the benefit of the "S" modeler. Agreed, this does not hold for everything but certainly offers a valid starting point, without much effort.

There you go !! A brief (hopefully) outline of PROTO: 64. Again a previously suggested if anyone is interested maybe A SIG (special interest group) could be formed; doesn't need to be formal.

If wanted by this list, I could put together a more detailed profile,and resource guide ( I wouldn't mind hearing from anyone on this subject anyway!!)
I welcome comments!!!


Regards

Richard Snook

Frankston, AUSTRALIA
Group: S-Trains Message: 20 From: Richard Snook Date: 9/29/1998
Subject: PROTO:64 postscript
P.S.

For those that might be intersted, and as an idea for modelers and especially those having "open layouts' "shows" and the like this November,I originally modeled in HO but was attracted to "S" by the potential to model with greater fidelity, and generally make models look less like models and more like running "little" prototypes. (Apologies to any minders of the English language). This might be an angle for promotion, as well as marketing of products. Its a niche market that would ADD to the number of "S" devotees. Hell HO wouldn't notice a 100 or so defectors but that might make a bit of difference to us. just a thought.


regards


Richard Snook
Group: S-Trains Message: 21 From: Arthur Armstrong Date: 9/29/1998
Subject: Re: PROTO:64
Hi Richard and all,

I like the idea of Proto 64. I received literature for a while from the
Proto 48 people and was impressed with their accomplishments.

I don't know if I could measure up (joke) to Proto 64 but I would like
to help get the movement started. I bought some code 88 wheels from
DesPlaines and have tried to handlay code 100 rail to the NMRA finescale
standards - I don't know how that would fit in with Proto 64 but I am
willing to give it a shot.

Richard pointed out in another post that the main need is in track and
wheels. Perhaps the NMRA finescale standards would be enough and all we
need is several people who will share their experiences.

I think the idea of a SIG within NASG would be workable. It preserves
the existing structure and encourages people to work together rather
than splintering the group.

Art Armstrong
aarmstro@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 22 From: Hilary Smith Date: 9/30/1998
Subject: Re: PROTO:64
S-Listers:

Since Richard seemed to be looking for a show of hands, count mine as being raised. My most recent non-S interest was Proto 48 where there is substantial track details, rail, flextrack (important because, as you know, O "scale" gauge measures out to 5') and so on. While S scale has a less developed Proto movement, Proto 48 can never do anything about the size of the scale, and to our eyes, S is the preferred size.

I am interested in track details, but as far as I know, the basic track detail, tie plates, is not available in S. So, I made up about 20 S scale tie plates (8 x 0.0135 holes on a beveled 0.121 x 0.242 plate made from laminated 0.010 and 0.005 styrene strips) but my results are not ready for prime time. Nonetheless, I've made a mold and cast about 60 of them using materials from Micro Mark. I plan to hand lay about 8 inches (!) of track to see how it looks.

Hilary Smith

Richard Snook wrote:

> From: Richard Snook <richard.snook@...>
>
> To all
>
> I recently posted a message asking for interest in PROTO: 64.
> In response to a suggestion by Paul Yorke, maybe a description of "PROTO" is warranted.
>
> PROTO: 64
>
> I suppose generally it is about maintaining a fidelity to PROTOTYPE practices, in particular as it applies to the standards modelers use for Track and Wheels. I won't repeat here, that which can be obtained at other sites ( NMRA amongst others), though it generally describes an adherence to dimensions in keeping with 12""to foot practices.
>
> Modelers have historically, for a number of reasons, used equipment that have out of proportion flanges running on larger (taller, thicker) rail than is correct for the scale.
>
> Over the years various like-minded modelers have evolved a set of practices and standards that set out to emulate the real thing. This caused much heartache and frustration initially as people tried sourcing wheels with the correct flange and rail components with different tolerances to the convention of the day. Early doomsayers would have you believe that this courted trouble in the areas of keeping trains on tracks etc. It is true to say that track laying has to be pretty well spot on, but all in all if gone about properly a layout utilizing the PROTO concept is no less/more reliable. I know ther is more to it, but I'm trying to keep this outline to a general description.
>
> Basically PROTO is just another path for modelers to consider. Not for everyone, but an interesting and enjoyable approach none the less.
>
> The "64 " aspect is self-evident, it refers to the chosen scale; "S" or 1/64.
>
> There is a growing list of manufacturers wishing to provide for the PROTO modeler, and most fortunately for the PROTO:64 venturer, prototype dimensions for "S" are mostly within the NMRA standards for HO. That is to say there are a lot of resources from a brother scale that might be re-employed for the benefit of the "S" modeler. Agreed, this does not hold for everything but certainly offers a valid starting point, without much effort.
>
> There you go !! A brief (hopefully) outline of PROTO: 64. Again a previously suggested if anyone is interested maybe A SIG (special interest group) could be formed; doesn't need to be formal.
>
> If wanted by this list, I could put together a more detailed profile,and resource guide ( I wouldn't mind hearing from anyone on this subject anyway!!)
> I welcome comments!!!
>
> Regards
>
> Richard Snook
>
> Frankston, AUSTRALIA
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> For information about this list contact Paul Yorke (yorke@...) or visit http://www.gate.net/~yorke/smail.htm
Group: S-Trains Message: 23 From: Alex Binkley Date: 9/30/1998
Subject: can help
This was posted on the R.M.R. list. If someone can help this fellow
Canuck, please contact him directly at glenna@...

>
> I have my Dads AF trainset and it requires new wheels. I'm not sure of
> the scale but it's the one with the three rails with each rail about one
> inch apart. It's a black 244 steam loco circa 193?. The wheels that
> require replacement are the small ones at both ends. The metal in
> disintegrating. Does anyone know where I might find a shop that could
> fix this or should I leave it alone. I was told that it could be
> valuable.

--
Alex Binkley
Hammond, Ont., Canada
<a href="mailto:alex.binkley@..." </a>
Group: S-Trains Message: 24 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 9/30/1998
Subject: lack of choo-choo
Should an operator expect to get smoke and an audible choo-choo from later
production AF S-gauge steam engines like the 21088, 21089, or 21155? Or do
they basically only produce smoke? I recently looked at 21088 that spun
and smoked OK, but was silent even when I listened to it closely. When I
asked "where's the choo-choo", I was told that's normal. Is that right?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Group: S-Trains Message: 25 From: Bill Porter Date: 9/30/1998
Subject: S-Trains Proto 64
Hi Ya'all,

I suppose you have all seen the latest Model Railroader. It has a nice
two-page article on the various Proto:xx standards and approaches. There
is no listing for Proto:64 and that must be why Brother Richard Snook
raised the issue.

The best part of the article is the photographic contrast between Proto:
and 'normal' scale.

Bill Porter
Group: S-Trains Message: 26 From: thompson@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxx Date: 9/30/1998
Subject: PROTO:64
Hi,

Count me in as being interested in PROTO:64!
After my conversion (from HO) I started to
realize the possibilities of finer scale models
in S. One of my passions is track work and I'd
love to be able build some detail into it, like
tie plates and rail joint plates. I'd be interested
in looking into having these types of things
produced, is there a market (other then myself)?
As for wheels I think NWSL has PROTO:64 wheelsets.?

kbt
Group: S-Trains Message: 27 From: David Dewey Date: 9/30/1998
Subject: Re: PROTO:64 postscript
Wow,
While it's beyond my capabilities, This sure does sound neat, and would,
I believe, attract some 'new blood' into S. gee, Tie plates even????Wow!!
More power (and parts) to ya!!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 28 From: David Dewey Date: 9/30/1998
Subject: Re: lack of choo-choo
David,
The engines you mention use the HO unit, which can choo-choo more quitely
than the S ones, and the chassis are noisier running than the others. (so
the noise wipes out the choo-choo) however, spiders like to make their
little 'nests' in the choo-choo hole, you might want to check it out. I
don't have one handy, but I think you have to pull the piston out to look on
these. A little 'junk' here really wipes out the choo-choo.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 29 From: David Dewey Date: 9/30/1998
Subject: Re: can help
Alex,
My server couldn't make sense of Glenn's address. Is there a typo??
S'
David
Group: S-Trains Message: 30 From: aleisen@xxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) Date: 9/30/1998
Subject: Dremel Lathe
I have For Sale or Trade.

Dremel Moto Lathe Model 701 w/tools still in shrink wrap never used in
original box ( missing end flap and a little worn ). $150 If
anyone is interested email me direct.

Thanks AL



___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
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Group: S-Trains Message: 31 From: kelvin white Date: 9/30/1998
Subject: Alligators wanted. Raid the toy box!
Hi Folks

I have exhausted all of my UK contacts and ransacked every toy shop in
the area, all in search of model alligators!

I am building a small Sn3 logging layout based in the black water swamps
of South Carolina. To compliment the scene I need two or three S scale
alligators - whilst gators can exceed 20ft the average is 10-12 ft thus
I'm looking for models that are between 1 - 2.5 inches long.

Can you help - please send any suitable models to me at the address
below, I will reinburse you with $ cash.

Thanks in advance
--
Kelvin White
16 Brogden Close
North Hinksey
Oxford
OX2 9DS
England
Group: S-Trains Message: 32 From: kelvin white Date: 9/30/1998
Subject: 1990s modelling & P64
In message <907154091.4647@onelist.com>, S-Trains@onelist.com writes
>Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 11:37:39 +1000
> From: Richard Snook <richard.snook@...>
>Subject: Proto: 64
>
>G'Day all,
>
>Is there currently a PROTO: 64 SIG or similar, or is anyone interested in
>sharing an experiences in this area??
>
Plus
>
>G'Day all
>
>Would certainly welcome hearing from any one modelling modern era 80/90's.
>
Hi Richard

Second question first!
Most of my modelling is 1995 - 1998:
Northern Wisconsin shortline - pulp & paper trafic + sand.

For Shortline modelling:

You can use the AM GP9, GP35, SHS SW9 Brass GP 30, GP38, SD9 for EMD
power + Brass GE 44 tonner and if you are into exotic railfan power the
AM RS3 and Blw S12. However FP7s, FA2s etc are out in less you have a
diner train. With the exception of the SD9 forget about six axle power.

Freight cars: SHS Bulkhead Flat + 52ft flatcar, PS2 hopper (2+3 bay), AM
PS2CD 3 bay hopper + 4 bay ribbed open hopper + Railbox boxcar + Tank
Car. PRS 50ft boxcars single + double doors, plus ACF 3 bay hopper. Des
Plaines Hobbies H39 hopper + new 50ft FMC outside rib boxcar.Downes Tank
car kits

Modern Piggy Back cars are available from AM and Containers from Des
Plaines + a Coal Porter is still on the books.

In otherwords 1990s modelling is easy - and is what you see when you
visit.

Proto 64 - an old chestnut.

The British S scale Society work to Proto 64 standards - its possible -
it works. I don't use these standards for my American modelling as I
don't want to rewheel everything - and anyway I'm a lousy tracklayer.

Randy Wilson published in the September 1996 issue Cab Signals - his
thoughts on Proto 64 and standards but then confused the situation by
trying to work up standards that would also allow the running of code
110 wheels. To be blunt he cocked up! In finescale modelling your
standards have to work as a set and have consistent tollerances.
If you want to model Proto 64 use the SSMRS standards see their web
site.

Cab Signals was the Newsletter of the Modern Prototype `S'cale Modellers
SIG - but I believe it is now dead - I havn't received a Newsletter from
Dave Bailey since the Winter 96/97 issue. Can anybody give me an update
on this SIG?
--
Kelvin White
Oxford England
Group: S-Trains Message: 33 From: Boul, Lawrence Date: 9/30/1998
Subject: Re: Proto64
[Boul, Lawrence] Count me in on the PROTO64 discussion.

As an Sn3.5 modeller my preferences may not be directly of interest to std
guagers, but a group of us here (NZ) have been working in the 'fine'
direction.

Concerning the availability of 'tieplates' I am in the process of getting
these etched in brass. They are designed for PECO code 80 rail which may be
too light for std guage exercises. If there is some interest it may be
possible to get them done for other rail sizes. You need an awful lot for
any amount of track though, so I hope your pockets are deep :-).

Lawrence
Group: S-Trains Message: 34 From: Paul Yorke Date: 9/30/1998
Subject: Proto 64
I went in search of Proto 64 info on the web, here is what I found....

out at http://www.getnet.com/~dickg/nmra/sigs/Report-0396.html
One of the newer SIGs is the Modern Prototype "S"cale Modelers. This
group focuses on modern, diesel-era freight and passenger equipment in S
Scale and Proto:64. It was formed in recently from within the National
Association of S Gaugers (See December 1995 Bulletin) to exchange
information about modern prototype, S scale equipment. Past issues of
the group's newsletter, CAB SIGNALS, have covered relevant topics from
past NASG conventions, prototype news, and information of new products.
This is a fairly young group, which has recently reorganized, so I
suggest that those interested contact this group's coordinator for
further information.

and at http://www.getnet.com/~dickg/nmra/sigs/Report-1296.html
Modern Prototype "S"cale Modelers encourages Proto:64 Standard
Written by Randy Wilson

This group, organized to encourage models of modern prototypes in S
scale, has recently published a newsletter outlining the Proto:64
standard and offering some thoughts as to how it can be used. According
to an article written by Randy Wilson, the Proto:64 standard allows some
conventional S-scale equipment to be used on track work that supports
Proto:64 wheel sets. So S-scale enthusiasts need not convert all track
and wheel sets at the same time. Randy also reports that Des Plains
Hobbies, 1468 Lee Street, Des Plains, IL, 60018, is marketing 33" whee
sets with needle point axles, priced at $6.00 for four (one complete
car).

at http://users.vnet.net/paulrver/rp-3.html
they mention fine scale but not proto 64?

Does anybody know Randy? Randy! Are you out there?


--
Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl.
American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers
http://www.gate.net/~yorke (alt e-mail paulyork@...)
Group: S-Trains Message: 35 From: Bilfrazier@xxx.xxx Date: 9/30/1998
Subject: Re: Atlantic shells
In a message dated 98-09-30 07:17:06 EDT, S-Trains@onelist.com writes:

<< Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 17:25:57 -0400
From: David_Horn@...
Subject: 302AC on a 303

Is the shell of a single piece die cast metal 302AC compatible with the
mechanism of an otherwise plastic-bodied 303? The 303 runs and looks
great, but its the engine I got for my first Christmas. We presently run
our equipment pretty avidly. The occasional wreck happens (also just like
the real thing). I'd like to reduce the risk of busting a step, etc. on
this engine if possible, yet we have a "no shelf-ware" policy. (After all,
they're trains, not trophies). There's a 302AC shell for sale, so I
thought this might be a nice way to "preserve" my 303, while at the same
time keep it running. Thanks in advance for your help.

Where there's smoke, there's Flyer.
>>
Any Flyer atlantic shell (plastic, single-cast or multi-cast) will fit any
atlantic mechanism. The only exception is that a reverse-in-boiler mechanism
needs a slot in the top of the boiler for the lever. Thus, you can mix and
match as you like. I have done this with a number of combinations, including
the one you mention. My favorite is a multi-cast shell (I filled the slot with
epoxy) on a pulmor smoke-in-boiler chassis, with an outside bearing (K5 type)
trailing truck. A plastic tender with added coal pusher and marker lights
completes the package.

Have fun,

Bill Frazier
Group: S-Trains Message: 36 From: Richard Snook Date: 9/30/1998
Subject: FW: [S-Trains] S-Trains Proto 64
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Snook [SMTP:richard.snook@...]
Sent: Thursday, October 01, 1998 9:20 AM
To: 'Bill Porter'
Subject: RE: [S-Trains] S-Trains Proto 64

sorry all, wrong key!!
take 2

Bill and all

Ah NO!!, down way south here in the land of OZ we tend to run a month behind on cover dates, unlike you lucky ones who run a month ahead. I am salivating at the prospect of afore mentioned article.The reason I have broached this subject is simple. I have just recently discovered this great list and PROTO:64 has been an idea/ideal for me for a while , now I can readily talk to others about this and maybe get some synergy happening, possible get some manufacturers intersted and/or some cottage industry interaction. The fact that no PROTO:64 is mentioned is good and bad, here's the opportunity to put it on the map.

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Porter [SMTP:wpporter@...]
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 1998 11:45 PM
To: S-Trains@onelist.com
Subject: [S-Trains] S-Trains Proto 64

From: Bill Porter <wpporter@...>

Hi Ya'all,

I suppose you have all seen the latest Model Railroader. It has a nice
two-page article on the various Proto:xx standards and approaches. There
is no listing for Proto:64 and that must be why Brother Richard Snook
raised the issue.

The best part of the article is the photographic contrast between Proto:
and 'normal' scale.

Bill Porter

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Group: S-Trains Message: 37 From: Richard Snook Date: 9/30/1998
Subject: Tie Plates
Hello all

Just a quickie

Re Tie plates: I have been using some 0n3 tie plates that were available once (maybe now) from Grandt Line. I been using these in my attempts to make a switch tie master pattern . These were once , even here fairly readily available and are a very nice casting ( injected plastic).


regards


Richard Snook
Group: S-Trains Message: 38 From: Russcalla@aol.com Date: 9/30/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 2
I am currently attempting to restore a 21234 C&O geep. The top of the engine
cab and front hood need to be repainted, but the rest of the shell is in great
condition. I have purchased some floquil paint and added some white to the
blue to try for a color match. Close but not satisfied-----realizing the age
of the shell, I know it can't be perfect, but wanted to check if there is a
better paint or better approach to this part of the restoration?
thanks in advance, Russ Callahan
Group: S-Trains Message: 39 From: Ken Zieska Date: 9/30/1998
Subject: Proto 64
While I am not sure that the Minnesota Heartland is or ever will be
proto 64, I am always interested in sharing ideas with modelers in this
wonderful scale. I have tried different rail heights and hand laid
turnouts but never the code 88 wheel sets. I will make it a point to
get a few sets this fall at the S Fest.
Ken Z.
Group: S-Trains Message: 40 From: Mac Date: 10/1/1998
Subject: Re: Cleaning
I purchased a Frontier set on Ebay and, as described, the decals on the loco
and tender are really dirty. I would prefer to clean the original rather
than replace. Any suggestions as to how to clean them without getting out
the comet -:) -Thanks
Mac_________________________________________________________________________
______
Group: S-Trains Message: 41 From: Chris Palomarez Date: 10/1/1998
Subject: Proto:64
hello to all,
I'm just starting to enter the S scale market as a HO scale refugee.
I've determined my main focus will be in the fine scale relm of S scale
or Proto:64 if you will. I'm curious if there are track standards and
tollerances for P64 available over the web or in print that I might be
able to examine. I'm also in the process of developping Free-mo
standards for Proto:64. Considering this is a new scale for me, I will
most likely be seeking constructive criticism about drafted standards.
For those curious about the Free-mo modular approach, you may visit the
website at http://www.online-info.com/freehome.htm or
http://www.callamer.com/cafe/freemo/freehome.htm

Chris Palomarez
Group: S-Trains Message: 42 From: Hilary Smith Date: 10/2/1998
Subject: Proto 64 & Tie Plates II
Richard:

Thanks so much for the heads up on the Grandt Line On3 plates. From my Grandt Line catalog, I am assuming you are referring to #9002, 4 hole Code 100 tie plates but there is no information on their width, length, and thickness. Would you mind posting those dimensions if it is not too
much trouble?

Have you used any of their joint bars?

Hilary Smith

Richard Snook wrote:

> From: Richard Snook <richard.snook@...>
>
> Hello all
>
> Just a quickie
>
> Re Tie plates: I have been using some 0n3 tie plates that were available once (maybe now) from Grandt Line. I been using these in my attempts to make a switch tie master pattern . These were once , even here fairly readily available and are a very nice casting ( injected plastic).
>
> regards
>
> Richard Snook
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
> service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
> http://www.onelist.com/advert.html for more information.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> For information about this list contact Paul Yorke (yorke@...) or visit http://www.gate.net/~yorke/smail.htm
Group: S-Trains Message: 43 From: Hilary Smith Date: 10/2/1998
Subject: Proto64 & Tieplates I
Lawrence:

I think it is wonderful that you are taking the initiative to have tieplates etched. If they are etched does that
mean they are completely flat -- with no channel for the rail base? I used this sort of tieplate in O when I hand
laid a little track and they look very realistic installed.

Back to your etchings. I am curious what it would cost to have a U.S. style tieplate (say, as I described in my
original post, 8 holes, 0.121x0.242 designed for the base of ME's Code 100) etched in brass? Let's see, at 21 inch
center-to-center tie spacing, that would make, mmmm, about 36 ties per foot, 72 tieplates per foot, or 7,200 per 100
feet of track. So a reasonable first order might be 10,000? I would be happy with a rough estimate or maybe I'd
faint dead away <g>.

Hilary Smith

Boul, Lawrence wrote:

> From: "Boul, Lawrence" <Boul@...>
>
> [Boul, Lawrence] Count me in on the PROTO64 discussion.
>
> As an Sn3.5 modeller my preferences may not be directly of interest to std
> guagers, but a group of us here (NZ) have been working in the 'fine'
> direction.
>
> Concerning the availability of 'tieplates' I am in the process of getting
> these etched in brass. They are designed for PECO code 80 rail which may be
> too light for std guage exercises. If there is some interest it may be
> possible to get them done for other rail sizes. You need an awful lot for
> any amount of track though, so I hope your pockets are deep :-).
>
> Lawrence
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
> service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
> http://www.onelist.com/advert.html for more information.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Group: S-Trains Message: 44 From: Paul Yorke Date: 10/2/1998
Subject: [Fwd: Proto 64 info]
I assume this was for all to read. (Paul)

--
Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl.
American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers
http://www.gate.net/~yorke (alt e-mail paulyork@...)
Group: S-Trains Message: 45 From: BenTrous@xxx.xxx Date: 10/2/1998
Subject: Tie Plates
Whoa!

I've been thinking about tie plates recently. I'm gearing up to start laying
the track for my new set up. Got the planning done; templates for the first 8
turnouts popped out of the plotter two nights ago, got rails, ties and spikes,
but where are the tie plates? I'm thinking what a waste to do all this
handcrafted track work without tie plates.

Went to the hobby store yesterday and sure enough Walthers Large Scale Catalog
in the 0 scale section under Grandt Line are list tie plates for code 125 and
code 100.

Ben Trousdale
Group: S-Trains Message: 46 From: thompson@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxx Date: 10/2/1998
Subject: For sale or trade
Hi,

I'm not sure what the policy is for "For Sale" messages
on this list. If it's a no-no, please accept my apology
and ignore this message.

If it's ok.... I am looking to sell or trade a SouthWind
Models 2-8-0, painted Union Pacific, scale. It's new, in
the box and since I don't yet have a layout it's never
been run. For those of you who were at the NASG convention,
it was the prize for the amateur class in the model contest.

I realy hate to part with it because it was such a big
deal for me winning my class. But I'm a Pennsy fan and
no matter how hard i squint Pennsy didn't quite have a
locomotive like this. I also would not attempt to kitbash
such a beautfull model into a Pennsy class, as some have
suggested! :)

What I'd really like to do is to trade for a brass M1/M1a
or some other Pennsy brass. Otherwise i'd sell it for
$950+shipping/insurance (then i can go a buy a M1a!).

If interested please email or call:

keith.thompson@...
978-442-0309 (day number EST)

Thanks,
kbt
Group: S-Trains Message: 47 From: thompson@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxx Date: 10/2/1998
Subject: S Gauge Heavy Equipment ???
Hi,

I pulled this off the rec.models.railroad news group... don't
be shy, let's get some S feedback to this guy.

kbt

--------------


We at C&D Moddels are taking a survey of things S and HO railroaders would like
to see. In the equipment area is there any interest in high detail construction
equipment?? If so what type of stuff are you looking for. If you would like to
respond e-mail Greg at CDModels@...

Thanks
Group: S-Trains Message: 48 From: TPLCoMinn@xxx.xxx Date: 10/2/1998
Subject: M&StL Hoppers
Kelvin,
You are right with the paints scheme. Lt. Grey with large M&StL on left and
full name in white band on the right. The 2 bay car will say "For Cement
Service Only", and the 3 bay will say "For Grain Service Only" per the
prototype; in the lower portion of the center panel. These will be a limited
run of 2 car sets (one 2 bay and one 3 bay per box). We will have pictures on
the Net soon....

Tom Lennon
Group: S-Trains Message: 49 From: TPLCoMinn@xxx.xxx Date: 10/2/1998
Subject: Proto: 64
Count me in! Tho' my interest is really in the early steam era, finescale is
finescale. I have tried both the finescale NWSL wheelsets and the Code 88's
from Ron S at Des Plaines and both make a real difference in the appearance of
models. It does, however, accentuate the overscale thickness of the currently
available truck sideframes (necessary to mask the oversize, undergauge
wheelsets in use). I have also built one of Alan Gibson's wonderful brass
engine kits. The British gauging standard is slightly wider than US customary
practice, but can easily be narrowed if you choose to use Tomalco or Shinohara
flex track. If you hand lay track, then no problem.
Kelvin could probably help obtain a set of the British exact scale track
gauging standards. As I recall, they widen their gauge slightly in curves???
I wrote to Alan, a year or so back, to ask if he was interested in producing a
kit or two for US early steam prototypes. He was booked full at that time.
How many out there would build a USRA 0-6-0 or a Ma & Pa 2-8-0?

Tom Lennon
Group: S-Trains Message: 50 From: Alex Binkley Date: 10/2/1998
Subject: S Gauge Heavy Equipment ???
The following was posted on the rec.models.railroad list. if you
are interested, contact these guys.
>
> We at C&D Moddels are taking a survey of things S and HO railroaders would like
> to see. In the equipment area is there any interest in high detail construction
> equipment?? If so what type of stuff are you looking for. If you would like to
> respond e-mail Greg at CDModels@...
>
> Thanks

--
Alex Binkley
Hammond, Ont., Canada
<a href="mailto:alex.binkley@..." </a>
Group: S-Trains Message: 51 From: Alex Binkley Date: 10/2/1998
Subject: proto 64
In addition to an interest in Proto 64 which I think that Ron Sebastien
from Desplaines is a promotor of, there is also a modern S scale group
which I joined a year otr so ago and have heard nothing more from. Does
anyone know if this group is still going. Not to take anything away from
this forum, it would be good to hear more about proto 64.
cheers
--
Alex Binkley
Hammond, Ont., Canada
<a href="mailto:alex.binkley@..." </a>
Group: S-Trains Message: 52 From: Paul Yorke Date: 10/2/1998
Subject: Dis & Dat
Mentioned in recent notes ...
Alan Gibson's Model Products see
http://members.tripod.com/~PaulYorke/Gibson/gibson1.htm

Also...
"For Sale" or "Wanted" or "Big Sale" are all ok on this list, buying
and selling is a big part of trains.

And...
Greg at CDModels@... is a subscriber to this list.

On the web...
I added another page to the 'How to build a railroad..." see
http://members.tripod.com/~PaulYorke/davis/girder.htm

DesPlaines Hobbise is on the web at...
http://www.desplaineshobbies.com/

See all you 'Chat' folks on Sunday.
--
Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl.
American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers
http://www.gate.net/~yorke (alt e-mail paulyork@...)
Group: S-Trains Message: 53 From: Jim Allen Date: 10/2/1998
Subject: Rectifier
Hello,

Does anyone know of a company(s) that make rectifiers / rectiformers?
The only ones I have seen are the older AF #15 and #14.

Thanks for the help.
Group: S-Trains Message: 54 From: Paul Yorke Date: 10/3/1998
Subject: Proto 64 info
Second try...
(also see my note at end.)
I got this the other day...
Subject: Proto 64 info
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 22:38:39 -0400
From: Alan Evans <rockyfork@...>
To: yorke@...
CC: Robin@..., thunderber@...,
jeichmann@..., foley164@...



Hello friends:

Several questions have come up regarding Proto:64, and I'd like
to
provide some background. (The article on page 120 of the November 98
MODEL RAILROADER again left S scale out of the picture!)
In September 1994 I received (as president of NASG) a copy of a
letter
from Randy Wilson, chairman of the NMRA Proto:Scale Committee. He sent
it to NASG Standards Chairman Bob Sherwood regarding NASG Standards and
an interface with the NMRA Engineering Dept. Also, Randy asked Dave
Bailey to accept a committee position as the Proto:64 Coordinator.
He goes on, and I quote, "I would like to replace the existing
NMRA
Standard S3 and S4 for S scale with the NASG numbers, but there may be
some need for minor adjustments which would not affect manufacturing or
modelers, but would speak to an existing NMRA requirement. This is not a

short term issue, but I would like to begin down the path towards
accpetance by all concerned parties."
In December 1995, after some discussion with previous members of
the
NASG Standards Committee (Barney Daehler, Wayne Pier, Lee Johnson, and
others), Randy sent another letter. I quote (in part), "There is no
question that the current RP's (Recommended Practices) of NMRA should be

revised and upgraded to Standards; there is also no question that the
void left by this upgrade should be filled with Proto:64, the next
logical evolution. The importance of forwarding our best available
engineering to NMRA is equaled by the need for the presenter to be the
foremost representative of the NASG."
(So Proto:64 has been reviewed by Randy Wilson. I'm surprised he
didn't
include his name in the "For More Details" column at the end of the MR
article.)
As I was (and still am!) a neophyte in fine scale (my trackwork
leaves
something to be desired!), I suggested at the time (1995) that Bob
Sherwood collaborate with Randy and write an article for the NASG
Dispatch magazine about Proto:64. It has yet to appear.

Here are current addresses:

Alan Evans rockyfork@...
Box 30345
Gahanna, OH 43230-0345
(614) 471-7277

Randy Wilson
Model America
330 Livingston Ave.
Placentia, CA 92870

Bob Sherwood Softmoods@...
410 E. 24th St.
Cheyenne, WY 82001

I would encourage Art Armstrong to pursue the NASG SIG to get
something
going. IT WOULD INDEED BE WORKABLE WITHIN NASG, and I applaud his
efforts.


Feel free to call me, Art, and I'll give you some other names to

contact as possible SIG members. Some of them are currently on the
S-Trains network.

Always willing to talk "S",

Alan Evans






WAYNE_L_PIER@...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I will put any additional 'Standards info on S-trains' there is some of
it at
http://members.tripod.com/~PaulYorke/smod/standard.htm
If there are additional S standards, I would love to post them. (Paul)

--
Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl.
American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers
http://www.gate.net/~yorke (alt e-mail paulyork@...)
Group: S-Trains Message: 55 From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx Date: 10/3/1998
Subject: Proto: 64
I don't believe that I will try and convert to
tighter track/wheel standards, but I sure
like the idea of detailing the trackwork using
joint bars (which I bought several years ago)
and tie plates. Now, do we cut the rail into
39' lengths to get clickety-clack? Maybe
the rail could be scribed to get that effect
without actually cutting it?

Can I do NEW track construction to PROTO
standards, and run existing stock?

Ted Larson mhrreast@...
Spring CHORES are done! Bring on the SUMMER!!!!

___________________________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 56 From: Arthur Armstrong Date: 10/3/1998
Subject: Re: Proto 64 info
Hello all -

Seeing my name on the S-list post (below) gave me the same shock I would
get from seeing my picture on the Post Office "wanted" board.

I am definitely interested in Proto 64 and am glad to hear that there
has been a lot of movement in this direction now and in the past. But! I
don't consider myself qualified to take over such a task. I am not a
first rate modeler and I am not an engineer but I want something like
Proto 64 to serve as a goal and to inspire manufacturers to provide more
scale material.

I would be happy to help an endeavor like this in any way I could but
before I can jump into this particular fire I would like to know more of
the history and the reasons that the effort died - apparently sometime
in 1995. Paul Yorke has mentioned that some of those involved in the
past are on this list. If so, could we hear some of the reaons and the
status of the movement? Perhaps all the necessary standards are
available and it just takes a little organizing to present them to the
NASG and NMRA?

Please keep the effort moving. We have had several posts to this list
from other modelers looking for Proto 64 - it certainly is a worthwhile
thing to pursue and perhaps we are closer to achieving this than we
realized.

Art Armstrong
aarmstro@...
------------------------
Paul Yorke wrote:
>
I got this the other day...
> Subject: Proto 64 info
> Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 22:38:39 -0400
> From: Alan Evans <rockyfork@...>
>
(big clip)

> I would encourage Art Armstrong to pursue the NASG SIG to get
> something
> going. IT WOULD INDEED BE WORKABLE WITHIN NASG, and I applaud his
> efforts.
>
(clip)
>
> Alan Evans
>
> WAYNE_L_PIER@...
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 57 From: Bilfrazier@xxx.xxx Date: 10/3/1998
Subject: Re: Rectifiers /rectiformers
Jim Allen asked about rectifiers:

Selenium rectifiers such as the #15 and vacuum tube rectifiers such as #14 and
#16 are no longer manufactured, as far as I know. They were no longer "state
of the art" about 30 or 40 years ago. They have been replaced by solid state
devices such as silicon rectifiers. If your object is to just run your trains
on DC, use a bridge rectifier such as radio shack 276-1185 and a reversing
switch with your transformer. If you need more info, how to wire, etc. let me
know.
I use both silicon rectifiers with transformers and old AF rectiformers
myself. I think that that glowing vacuum tube is neat! Replacement vacuum
tubes are available for rectiformers.

Bill Frazier
Group: S-Trains Message: 58 From: Dennis Back Date: 10/3/1998
Subject: 742 reversing handcar
Hi to all:

Does anyone know where there is a 742 reversing handcar for sale. It
doesn't have to be perfect (the cheaper-the better). I'd just like it
to run!


Thanks,
Dennis Back
Miami, Fl.

backden@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 59 From: Chuck Smith Date: 10/3/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 5
S-Trains@onelist.com wrote:
>
> 9. Rectifier
> From: Jim Allen <jallen@...>

> Message: 9
> Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 21:31:52 -0700
> From: Jim Allen <jallen@...>
> Subject: Rectifier
>
> Hello,
>
> Does anyone know of a company(s) that make rectifiers / rectiformers?
> The only ones I have seen are the older AF #15 and #14.
>
> Thanks for the help.
>
I don't know of a company. However, if all you want to do is create DC
output then read on. If this isn't what you want then maybe someone
else can use this info. Not sure whether you are familiar with putting
a bridge rectifier on a regular AC transformer to get DC output. You
don't need to do anything more than hook up the AC leads of the bridge
to your transformer and use the DC leads as output. Bridge rectifiers
are available from Radio Shack for about a buck twenty nine. A rating of
about 50PIV will work best. Radio shack will even sell you a little
project box to put the thing in neatly. The larger ones (100PIV) seem
to drag output down more. You can also check out power supplies for O
or G gauge trains that provide a DC track output, provided they have a
current output of at least a few amps (preferably about 4-5 amps or,
say, 75 Watts).
To get fancier: If you also want to enable polarity reversing then wire
a Double Pole Double Throw switch into the rectifier output lines. Now,
if you want to increase the output voltage a little put a 2000mfd
capacitor across the output. This smooths out the unfiltered DC from
the rectifier. If you switch it out of the circuit you have a
rudimentary "pulse power". Motors start more slowly and creep better
when the DC is not filtered.
--
"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers and the
S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith
Group: S-Trains Message: 60 From: M. McConnell Date: 10/3/1998
Subject: Help finding geneology info
A friend of mine asked for help in their genelogy research. They are
looking for an Uncle that worked on the Erie Railroad in New York State as
a fireman in 1924. Does anyone know of a source of information on past
employees for such research?

Thanks,
Michael McConnell
South Jersey S Gaugers
Group: S-Trains Message: 61 From: kelvin white Date: 10/4/1998
Subject: SSMRS - PROTO 64 standards
In message <907415675.28278@onelist.com>, S-Trains@onelist.com writes
>Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 17:16:37 EDT
> From: TPLCoMinn@...
>Subject: Proto: 64
>
>Count me in! Tho' my interest is really in the early steam era, finescale is
>finescale. I have tried both the finescale NWSL wheelsets and the Code 88's
>from Ron S at Des Plaines and both make a real difference in the appearance of
>models. Kelvin could probably help obtain a set of the British exact scale track
>gauging standards.

Full S Scale Model Railway Society Track & Wheel Standards can be found
at: http://freespace.virgin.net/jim.gutherie/sst01.html

Jim a SSMRS member also has photos on this WWW site of East Lynn the
very fine GER layout of Trevor Nunn. East Lynn, and 3 other Scale
Layouts including my own Kerneekee (MK2 don't ask about MK1)! will be on
display at the Model Railway Clubs HQ at Keen House in Kings Cross
London this coming Saturday October 10th. So if you are on this side of
the pond.... more details upon request.

>As I recall, they widen their gauge slightly in curves???
Correct. but then the prototype does as well if it ran on the radius
that we try.

>I wrote to Alan Gibson

> a year or so back, to ask if he was interested in producing a
>kit or two for US early steam prototypes. He was booked full at that time.
>How many out there would build a USRA 0-6-0 or a Ma & Pa 2-8-0?

As I'm getting into steam @ present the answer is a yes from me.

Kelvin White
Oxford England.
Group: S-Trains Message: 62 From: Ken Zieska Date: 10/4/1998
Subject: Proto 64
I have been building one of the Pacific Rail Shops Reefers (NP of
course) and want to say again how much the PBL nippers assist in the
project. The nippers take the parts off the sprue without distortion,
leaving a clean part, ready for assembly. As I am building the kit, I
am also reading a discussion in the Freight Car list about people not
wanting to build kits anymore. Considering that this seems correct, I
am glad to hear people wanting to detail their track work. Maybe there
are a few craftsperson's left in the hobby.
At this time, I share Ted's idea. I am not likely to redo my track
work to a tighter standard. My layout is reliable, trains track well,
there is little problem with derailments that is not caused by poor
workmanship on the offending car. I like the idea of additional track
detail, I know that just painting the rail and weathering the ballast
makes a big difference. I can see working more detail into to special
scenes and then expanding it as time is a great way to make sure the
layout is never done.
I will schedule a "clinic" on proto 64 for the NASG 1999 convention
if a moderator is willing to step forward. If a picture is worth a
thousand words, sharing information first hand is worth a million.
Group: S-Trains Message: 63 From: HSage3@xxx.xxx Date: 10/4/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 6
In a message dated 10/4/98 6:28:26 AM EST, Ted Larson writes:

<< Now, do we cut the rail into
39' lengths to get clickety-clack? Maybe
the rail could be scribed to get that effect
without actually cutting it?>>

Many years ago, a good friend of mine cut a piece of rail to a scale 39' (in
his case HO), and then using a Dremel tool he cut notches into the rail. It
worked like a charm! Just remember to offset the joints.

Harry
Group: S-Trains Message: 64 From: Boul, Lawrence Date: 10/4/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 6
> Subject: Proto: 64
>
>
> I don't believe that I will try and convert to
> tighter track/wheel standards, but I sure
> like the idea of detailing the trackwork using
> joint bars (which I bought several years ago)
> and tie plates. Now, do we cut the rail into
> 39' lengths to get clickety-clack? Maybe
> the rail could be scribed to get that effect
> without actually cutting it?
>
[Boul, Lawrence] If you want to do this DO NOT notch or cut the rail every
scale 42' or whatever is std on your road. When you hear that old
'clickerty-click' on the real thing your are either 1) on the train and
hearing a few wheelsets hit every joint, ot 2) on the ground hearing every
wheelset hit 1 joint. If you notch all joints on the model, what you hear
is all wheelsets on many joints, which is neither the familiar click-click,
nor pleasant. I would suggest leaving only a few larger than normal gaps on
straight track. Bridges are good for this as you get natural amplification.

> Can I do NEW track construction to PROTO
> standards, and run existing stock?
>
[Boul, Lawrence] Probably not, though in Sn3.5 we are making some progress
towards scale wheels while still using NMRA std HO track. This is a useful
evolution as it enables the stock to be converted separately (and
progressively) to the layout. The track guage is pretty good anyway, but a
tightening of tolerances in the turnouts will be possible later on.

Lawrence
Group: S-Trains Message: 65 From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx Date: 10/4/1998
Subject: Cars
Someone recently asked the size of prototype
cars, so that they could judge whether various
toy cars are the "right" size. I went to a car
show today and took some measurements.
(These lengths might be off by a few inches.)

Length Width Height

'40 Chev 15' (not including bumpers)
6' 69"
'47 Ford 198" bumper to bumper
6' 69-1/2"
'50 Buick 17-1/2' 6-1/2' 67"
'59 Cadillac 19' 7' 56"
'59 Ranchero 17-1/2" 6-1/4' 59"
'60 T-bird 17 6-1/2' 54"
'62 Lark 15-1/2' 5'-10" 60"
'59 Chev 18' 6'-9" 59"
'51 Chev Pickup 6'
68-1/2" from bottom of running board
to top of door


Now, compare these measurements to the
recent Johnny Lightning and Mint Editions
pickups, keeping in mind that the '40's cars
and trucks were basically the same from the
front seat forward; therefore same height and
width.

Johnny Lightning Pickups
'40 Ford 16' 5-1/2' 6'
'50 Ford 15-1/4' 5-3/4' 6'
'78 Dodge 15-3/4' 6' 5-3/4'
'60 Stude 15-3/4' 5-3/4' 5-1/4'
'55 Chev 15-3/4' 6' 6'

Mint Editions Pickups
(Can't measure these through the packing as well.)
'53 Ford 6-1/2' 7'
'48 Ford 6-1/4' 6-1/2'
'40 Ford 6' 6-1/2'
'50 Chev 16-3/4' 6' 6'
'65 Ford 6' 5-1/2'

So which ones are "right"????????????
I'd say the closer they are to 6' wide and
6' high, the closer to 1:64th scale they are.

AND, everybody who is unhappy about these
NOT being exactly 1:64th, look up the manufacturers
address on their web page and write to them!

Ted Larson mhrreast@...
Spring CHORES are done! Bring on the SUMMER!!!!

________________________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 66 From: Ken Zieska Date: 10/4/1998
Subject: More thoughts
Just a few more thoughts on trackwork. Before you go cutting your rail
every 39 feet, consider how lound that will be. I tried it using a
dremel tool and found it objectionable. If you think about it in real
life, you are only going to hear the clicking of a few joints. If you
are running a S train of 14 cars, you will hear the clicking of all 14
cars, the sound of metal wheels and the sound of the engine. If you add
sound to the engine, the sound can get overwhelming. I realize that the
size of your layout, the room you are in and many other factors will
influence how loud the layout gets so I am interested in hearing other
people's experience. One thing that I think is very exciting about this
discussion is that we are trying to model so all of our senses get
involved. Anyone have an idea for a good Mars light? How about Diesel
and coal scented smoke?
I heard from a fellow S modeler who is working on a project to produce a
Northern Pacific caboose in S (brass). He is considering the 1700
series with four paint schemes or two of the 1700 schemes and two of the
1200 schemes. Both of these are wood cabeese (?) suitable for steam and
diesel operation. If you have seen the Kinsman NP caboose, you know the
style of caboose. As soon as I hear that the project is closer to
reality, I will scan a phot that can be posted to the web. By the way,
he is also considering a small run of NP Atlantics that can be done with
the project Southwind is working on. If you like either of these
projects let Southwind know.
Group: S-Trains Message: 67 From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx Date: 10/4/1998
Subject: Cars (revised)
Revision 1
Someone recently asked the size of prototype
cars, so that they could judge whether various
toy cars are the "right" size. I went to a car
show today and took some measurements.
(These lengths might be off by a few inches.)

Length Width Height

'40 Chev 15' (not including bumpers)
6' 69"
'47 Ford 16-1/2' bumper to bumper
6' 69-1/2"
'50 Buick 17-1/2' 6-1/2' 67"
'59 Cadillac 19' 7' 56"
'59 Ranchero 17-1/2" 6-1/4' 59"
'60 T-bird 17 6-1/2' 54"
'62 Lark 15-1/2' 5'-10" 60"
'59 Chev 18' 6'-9" 59"
'51 Chev Pickup 6'
68-1/2" from bottom of running board
to top of door


Now, compare these measurements to the
recent Johnny Lightning and Mint Editions
pickups, keeping in mind that the '40's cars
and trucks were basically the same from the
front seat forward; therefore same height and
width.

Johnny Lightning Pickups
'40 Ford 16' 5-1/2' 6'
'50 Ford 15-1/4' 5-3/4' 6'
'78 Dodge 15-3/4' 6' 5-3/4'
'60 Stude 15-3/4' 5-3/4' 5-1/4'
'55 Chev 15-3/4' 6' 6'

Mint Editions Pickups
(Can't measure the length through the packaging.)
'53 Ford 6-1/2' 7'
'48 Ford 6-1/4' 6-1/2'
'40 Ford 16-3/4' 6' 6-1/2'
'50 Chev 16-3/4' 6' 6'
'65 Ford 6' 5-1/2'
'59 Ford 6' 6-1/2'
Sits high, like 4 wheel drive
'57 Ranchero 6' 5'
compared to the 6-1/4' foot width of the
REAL Ranchero above, this is slightly
undersize, but its packaging calls it 1:55th!!
Go figger!

Other Comparisons:

Old Hot Wheels '56 Ford
14-1/2' 6' 5-3/4'
Recent Matchbox Ford Stepside
15' (bed is short)
6-1/2' 6'
Majorette Jeep Cherokee
15-3/4' 6-1/2'
HIGH (4 wheel drive)
Old Ertl Mid-60's Chev
15-1/2' 6-1/4' 5-1/2'
Hot Wheel Jeep Pickup
15-1/2' 5-3/4'
High, 4 wheel drive


So which ones are "right"????????????
Some are almost dead on!
I'd say the closer they are to 6' wide and
for the older trucks, 6' high,
the closer to 1:64th scale they are.
Also, compare the size of the cabs on the '48-50
Ford pickups with the Hartoy '48 Ford cab.
They should have the same size doors, hoods,
grills. They should "look" right.

All things considered, I'd say that the Mint
Editions '53 Ford is TOO Large (even the
tires are larger than on the other trucks -
These measure about 33" diameter - real
15" tires are about 27" diameter).
AND, I'd say the Mint Editions '40 and '50
Ford are closer to correct size than are
the JL '40 and '48 Fords.
Other than that, they all look fairly close,
even though you can tell from the sizes of
the real ones that they are not all exactly
right.

AND, everybody who is unhappy about these
NOT being exactly 1:64th, look up the manufacturers
address on their web page and write to them!
Tell 'em we want 'em exactly 1:64 to match the
collectible trucks (Winross, Hartoy, Ertl) and
collectible farm tractors (Ertl).

Ted Larson mhrreast@...
Spring CHORES are done! Bring on the SUMMER!!!!

________________________________________________________________
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from Juno, the world's second largest online service.
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Group: S-Trains Message: 68 From: Vic Bereskin Date: 10/4/1998
Subject: Re: Reversing Handcar
I know the feeling. I would like to find a source for reversing switches
for the 742 handcar so that I can get mine into proper working order. I've
tried all sorts of jerry-rigged substitutes, but nothing I can rig up that
is functional will fit in the shell.


> Date: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 17:22:38 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Dennis Back <backden@...>
>Subject: 742 reversing handcar
>
>Hi to all:
>
>Does anyone know where there is a 742 reversing handcar for sale. It
>doesn't have to be perfect (the cheaper-the better). I'd just like it
>to run!
>
>
>Thanks,
>Dennis Back
>Miami, Fl.
Group: S-Trains Message: 69 From: Richard Snook Date: 10/4/1998
Subject: PROTO:64 interest
To all

Everyone, I think it is just marvellous; the amount of contact I've received re PROTO:64. It is all very promising. I occurrs to me that a lot, well for this scale, of fellow modellers have pondered this very subject. Now the NET makes it easier and quicker to get feedback. Seems like this is not the first time this has been mooted, but possibly the best reaction to date to the idea??. When I get a moment I will amalgamate that which I have received to date into a .DOC and post it for all. As it is I'm about to start a couple of modules, for the ever..I'll have that layout ..one day!!! . I will be applying my own quasi standards of sorts which will combine the best of "S" finescale as previously published in conjuction with the dimensions for #88 HO finescale wheels.. these scale out very very close to the real thing, flange is a bit ( about .1 mm) deep, but maybe practical.This will be flavoured with standards as applied (published) for PROTO:48. I'm lucky (sic) being a relative loner in this scale and application where I live..Melbourne,Australia that I needn't worry too much about inter operability with others ( hello any other "S" scalers in Melbourne..Victoria.Australia???). But it would be nice to eventually have a recognised format for all to work with, especially manufacturers.

regards

Richard Snook
Group: S-Trains Message: 70 From: David Dewey Date: 10/4/1998
Subject: Rail Joints
Lots of good points there. Another one is that the 'clickity-clack'
sound is of wheels dropping in and out of a 'hole' in the railhead. This
causes wear!!
I would think that one or two such joints on a layout, near the front
where the audience can hear it would provide the 'effect'. After all, when
you are standing at the station, or grade crossing, or your favorite viewing
point (in front of the photoline, in a red plaid shirt!<G>), you can't hear
the joints until the engine is far away enough so it isn't filling the air
with it's sounds. That's kinda hard to do in scale, the loco's still too
close! An excuse to run loooong trains!!!
Have fun!!
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 71 From: Hilary Smith Date: 10/4/1998
Subject: Re: S Gauge Heavy Equipment ???
S-sters:

I suppose we could vote in this forum given that Greg of CDModels seems to be on the list. Personally, I'd like to
seem some log loading equipment -- I know it's not construction but . . . Whatever they used 40-50 years ago in the
Pacific NW to put logs onto stake-side flats.

Hilary Smith
Northern Virginia



>
> > We at C&D Moddels are taking a survey of things S and HO railroaders would like
> > to see. In the equipment area is there any interest in high detail construction
> > equipment?? If so what type of stuff are you looking for. If you would like to
> > respond e-mail Greg at CDModels@...
> >
> > Thanks
Group: S-Trains Message: 72 From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx Date: 10/4/1998
Subject: Utility Truck
Matchbox has a power company boom truck,
for lifting linemen up to work. It appears to be
about HO size, and is a large heavy duty
truck. If however you removed the back half
and grafted it to an S scale pickup truck cab,
you would have a small light duty utility truck!

Looks like something your RR communications
crew would enjoy having!

Ted Larson mhrreast@...
Spring CHORES are done! Bring on the SUMMER!!!!

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Group: S-Trains Message: 73 From: Dale Smith Date: 10/4/1998
Subject: Re: More thoughts
Ken Zieska wrote:



> How about Diesel and coal scented smoke?

I have some coal scented smoke fluid made Lehigh Valley Train Service (LVTS) They also make diesel scented smoke,
but why that would be used in flyer steam locos is unclear to me. I have been a bit hesitant to use my coal scented
smoke in anything I wasn't planning on rebuilding. When I got it, you could see a slight residue in the bottom of
the bottle, which I presume is coal tar, and I couldn't help thinking that it might build up in the wick and not have
the most beneficial results on the smoke unit itself. If anyone has any thoughts on this, please share them.

Dale Smith
Group: S-Trains Message: 74 From: Arthur Armstrong Date: 10/4/1998
Subject: Proto:64
While I was browsing in NMRA standards on the web I found this
comparison.

Tire width
Proto:48 .115 (5.52 inches prototype)
S Fine .108 (6.912 inches prototype)

an S scale code 88 wheel scales to 5.632 prototype and it is available
now.

Flange depth
Proto:48 .031 (1.488 inches prototype)
S fine .030 (1.92 inches prototype)

The comparison to Proto:48 is only because I assume they have done a lot
of work investigating the physics of wheel performance and their
dimensions represent the closest to scale that can be achieved for them.

Probably for S with lighter weight we could not expect to do as well.

Art Armstrong
aarmstro@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 75 From: Arthur Armstrong Date: 10/4/1998
Subject: proto64
Hello - I found this on the NMRA website Sig report for December 1996.

This suggests that Proto 64 is an accomplished set of standards. I have
not seen any other mention of it. Is there anyone on this list who can
preovide more information?

Art Armstrong
aarmstro@...

-------------
From the NMRA website
from a December 1996 report
------------------

Modern Prototype "S"cale Modelers encourages Proto:64 Standard
Written by Randy Wilson

This group, organized to encourage models of modern prototypes in S
scale, has recently published a newsletter outlining the Proto:64
standard and offering some thoughts as to how it can be used.

According to an article written by Randy Wilson, the Proto:64 standard
allows some conventional S-scale equipment to be used on track work that
supports Proto:64 wheel sets. So S-scale enthusiasts need not convert
all track and wheel sets at the same time. Randy also reports that Des
Plains Hobbies, 1468 Lee Street, Des Plains, IL, 60018, is marketing 33"
whee sets with needle point axles, priced at $6.00 for four (one
complete car).
Group: S-Trains Message: 76 From: kelvin white Date: 10/5/1998
Subject: Proto 64 & slide clinics
In message <907590791.30552@onelist.com>, S-Trains@onelist.com writes
> Date: Sun, 04 Oct 1998 09:27:28 -0500
> From: Ken Zieska <mhrr@...>
>Subject: Proto 64
>
> I will schedule a "clinic" on proto 64 for the NASG 1999 convention
>if a moderator is willing to step forward. If a picture is worth a
>thousand words, sharing information first hand is worth a million.
>
I will try and remember to bring some of the SSMRS wheel sets with me to
compare with 'your' Proto 64.

Incidently I screwed up the SSMRS web site address by miss spelling Jim
Guthrie's surname the web address is:
http://freespace.virgin.net/jim.guthrie/sst01.html

At the Altoona NASG convention I gave a slide show of British S scale
and my own S scale modelling (ego trip time), do you want a similar
clinic for Minneapolis?

>

--
Kelvin White
Oxford England
Group: S-Trains Message: 77 From: PortLines@xxx.xxx Date: 10/5/1998
Subject: Re: smoke fluids
In a message dated 10/5/98 8:36:41 AM, you wrote:

<<I have some coal scented smoke fluid made Lehigh Valley Train Service (LVTS)
They also make diesel scented smoke,

but why that would be used in flyer steam locos is unclear to me. I have
been a bit hesitant to use my coal scented

smoke in anything I wasn't planning on rebuilding. When I got it, you could
see a slight residue in the bottom of

the bottle, which I presume is coal tar, and I couldn't help thinking that it
might build up in the wick and not have

the most beneficial results on the smoke unit itself. If anyone has any
thoughts on this, please share them.

>>

We carry all 8 "flavors" of LV smoke fluid. Most sales of the diesel fluid are
for folks who have some sort of unit hidden within a diesel service
facility....not in an engine.
As for the coal fluid....I've never had a complaint about it gumming up a
unit, but it's not a real popular scent. In fact, personally, I don't even
like it. Nothing beats the AF odor, even though it's cedarwood.....which isn't
too realistic!
Other "flavors" available include hickory, fir, balsam (christmas tree), the
Lionel odor, and natural (unscented).
Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)
Port Lines Hobby Supply
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Port Lines @ aol.com http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 78 From: Paul Yorke Date: 10/5/1998
Subject: Two Items
One: Does anybody know where the Sn3 page that was at
http://129.93.226.138/rr/sn3/sn3www.htm
has been moved?

Two: Railway Model Design Software, Developed by � S�bastien MARCHANT,
at http://members.tripod.com/~PaulYorke/railway.htm. I have fixed the
broken link to the zip file.

--
Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl.
American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers
http://www.gate.net/~yorke (alt e-mail paulyork@...)
Group: S-Trains Message: 79 From: Thompson, Keith Date: 10/5/1998
Subject: Re: Proto 64
I just wanted to add my two cents about the Proto64 discussion that's been
going on the last few days.

I've used the Grandt Line tie plates and PSC fish plates, as well as the old
"bolted" Lambert rail joiners with handlaid code 100 rail and I've been
ecstatic with the looks but frustrated with the time it takes. Therefore,
I'm only (WARNING VERBED-NOUN AHEAD) "quasi-Proto64ing" the stuff that's
close to the front of the layout or that will show up in photos.

I'll try to get some photos posted on my East Texas Belt web site
(http://www.wolfenet.com/~kthompso/ETB/) over the next couple of days to let
you all judge for yourself if it's worth it. I certainly wouldn't go protoXX
in HO because of the small size and because when you mix measuring systems
(3.5mm=1' for 1:87.1), something's bound to get lost in the transfusion.
However, to paraphrase my doctor friends, the bleeding will stop and you'll
switch to S scale. - Keith Thompson
Group: S-Trains Message: 80 From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx Date: 10/5/1998
Subject: Ideas
>>We at C&D Moddels are taking a survey of things S and HO railroaders
would like
to see. In the equipment area is there any interest in high detail
construction
equipment?? If so what type of stuff are you looking for. If you would
like to
respond e-mail Greg at CDModels@...
Thanks<<

I would like to see;
- a concrete truck body that could be grafted to a Hartoy or other S
scale truck.
- hi-rail wheels and mounting gear that could be grafted to "" "" ""
""".
- a dump truck body "" "" "" ""'
- Some CAT dozers would be nice; D8 or so.
- a small factory size forklift, also that is right size for driving into
a boxcar
to load it.
- an older (50's-60's) style of front end loader, road grader,

Ted Larson mhrreast@...
Spring CHORES are done! Bring on the SUMMER!!!!

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Group: S-Trains Message: 81 From: Ken Zieska Date: 10/5/1998
Subject: S Stuff
C-D models are the guys who make farm equipment. I have not been out to
see their factory but the images I saw on the web are fantastic.
Contest model farm equipment to compliment your contest quality
freightcars.
Thanks for all the help in finding chevy's for the layout. Now where is
my SD-oop's I guess I have been there before haven't I 8-).
Ken
Group: S-Trains Message: 82 From: Steinkirchner, Alan Date: 10/6/1998
Subject: American Models New Haven PAs
> I have the American Models New Haven Alco PA A-A set (no "B" unit)
> that I would like to sell. I apologize if this forum is not intended
> for selling trains, but I thought that I would be most likely to find
> someone who is interested in them here. I'm not a dealer, and I won't
> make a habit out of this.
>
> The set is DC "hi-rail", both units are powered, and the paint scheme
> is the same as the one used by Gilbert. They have been operated a
> little, but are in "like-new" condition. The current retail for this
> set is $396.00. My price is $295.00 plus shipping. If you're
> interested, please respond directly to my e-mail address.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Alan Steinkirchner
> (alan.steinkirchner@...)
Group: S-Trains Message: 83 From: Jerry Riechert Date: 10/6/1998
Subject: Re: Two Items
> Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 19:25:42 -0400
> From: Paul Yorke <yorke@...>
> Subject: Two Items
>
<<<snip>>>
> Two: Railway Model Design Software, Developed by � S�bastien MARCHANT,
> at http://members.tripod.com/~PaulYorke/railway.htm. I have fixed the
> broken link to the zip file.

Regarding the above program, has anyone put together an American Flyer
database and layouts that they could post and/or send me? I've played
around with this but just can't seem to get a working database. When I
put in some of the layouts in my AF instruction book, some work out fine
and some don't!

--
Jerry Riechert riecherg@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 84 From: kelvin white Date: 10/6/1998
Subject: AM USRA heavy 4-6-2
Hi Folks

I just received the last NASG dispatch (the directory) inside is an
advert for the AM 42ft car and the AM USRA heavy 4-6-2 in plain black
with a custom lettering job.

It looks great - much better than the toy like images of the B&O &
Southern versions. As far as I can tell the only RRs that had USRA heavy
4-6-2s (and the near copies) were the Eire class K5, plus C&EI whilst
the PRR K4s, B&O P7s and Southern Ps4 were not too dissimilar.

All this is fine if you model those roads but my main steam era interest
is with the Soo and C&NW - I don't believe they had similar engines or
ones that could be easily converted - does anybody know?
--
Kelvin White
Oxford England
Group: S-Trains Message: 85 From: Paul Yorke Date: 10/6/1998
Subject: Proto64 or not to proto64
From: Roger Hinds <cofa@...>
Organization: Crossroads of America



Hi Guy"S";

Tinplate, highrail, scale, finescale, Now proto64. Whats next?
Perhaps putting a size reduction ray gun to the real thing to reduce it
to our scale.
:o) Well - - - - Maybe that would upset someone.
An interesting thought. Will the proto64 guys put the same attention
into the rest of their layouts. Perhaps a flushing toilet in a minature

home. Opps! sorry - - I couldn't resist that one. :o) .
In the fish section of pet stores there are tiny fish called feeders.
These would look great in a pond on your layout. That is, if you have
one.
Back to the RR scale discusion. I have found that if you look hard
enough you will find flanges vary in size around the country.
When I was in Northern Vt. several years ago I noticed that the train
rails were very large. I was sorry I did not have something to measure
them with. Point being. You will find irregularites on the real thing
on occasion. I have a picture of a RR car that is strange. 2/3 of the
car is a tank the remaining 1/3 is half a cabbose as I recall.

About the mfgs. doing a survey on what people want. I think we have
gotten to the point where most anything will sell. I seldom see anyone
making trains with logos from New England RRs. I would like to see
unusual items with character. For instance: An old beat up loco with
tounge in cheek modifactions and personalized touches by the Engineer.
Something so ugly that everyone will love it.

Gotta go. My sons school is having open house tonight. Yes, he has a
layout of his own.

Roger
Group: S-Trains Message: 86 From: L123 Montgomery Date: 10/7/1998
Subject: Cleaning Old Tarnished AF Track
Hi Folks,

I recently dug out my old American Flyer trains and am planning on putting up a christmas layout this year. The track is pretty tarnished.

I know I can use a brite boy to clean up the railheads and connecting pins to get good electrical contact but is there a (relatively) easy way to clean up the entire rail? Will Tarn-X work?

TIA
Monty
---
Fight Spam! Join CAUCE! == http://www.cauce.org/
Outlaw Junk Email! Support HR 1748.



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Group: S-Trains Message: 87 From: John Foley Date: 10/7/1998
Subject: Throttles
>Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 06:29:53 -0700
>To: S-trains
>From: John Foley <foley164@...>
>Subject: Throttles
>
>>Date: Mon, 05 Oct 1998 21:49:26 -0700
>>To: S-trains
>>From: John Foley <foley164@...>
>>Subject: Throttles
>>
>> A company named Kurtz-Kraft manufactures excellant electronics
for
>>model railroading. Throttles,modules for flashers and signals, sound
systems etc.
>>The best thing about this company is their low prices. Example their
TH-2B DC
>>hand held throttle is only $54. and can handle 6 amps. Their AC throttle
TH-7 is
>>a great unit for AF fans. The TH-7 inclues a power unit for only $90. So
call or write and ask for a catolog. Kurtz-Kraft
>> 1016 Pinewood Dr.
>> Downers Grove IL. 60516
>> Phone 630-968-4456
>> No email or web site
>> John foley
Group: S-Trains Message: 88 From: ALLAN V EISENHAUR Date: 10/7/1998
Subject: 332/336 tender
I am looking AF 332/336 Northern Tender or parts for repainting. email
me direct.
Thanks AL Eisenhaur

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Group: S-Trains Message: 89 From: Roger Hinds Date: 10/7/1998
Subject: Track
I notice someone is asking about cleaning track. Which is about a
subject I was about to address it anyway, I might as wall dive in - -
- again.

First, I was just going to mention that I just got in another case of
oil for track treatment. This means I will resume filling orders.

Now to address the question brought up; I sell a metal polish that
removes rust easily. Wipe it on wipe it off. The rust is gone. You might
have to scrub a bit if the rust is thicker than usual. A tooth brush
with the polish will remove the rust from the sides easily.
I also sell an oil that will eliminate any need to clean track in the
future for a good long time. I haven't cleaned my track since 1981. My
trains are run in a museum every day in the summer. It sets all winter.
Come spring I just run it again. somehow it does not aquire grime in the
winter. It also eliminates electrical arching between wheels and the
track. And I used the oil just once or twice since 1981.
I am repeating this message for those that missed it last month. And
the fellow that asked.

Anyway your track problems will be eliminated --- forever. With one
treatment.
These products have been sold to other members of this forum, with no
complaints.

The polish (alias rust remover) 16 oz. $ 22.80
The oil 4 oz. 5.25

Both items 26.00

Free instruction for both items.

Note: Both products go a long way with a small amount.
Second note: I own a museum and require products that give the best
performance to keep my trains running.


Roger CEO

Crossroads of America.
Group: S-Trains Message: 90 From: Richard Snook Date: 10/7/1998
Subject: Article on PROTO:X Nov MR ??
Hello all

I was wondering if anyone is in the position of being able to forward to me scanned pages from the article in Model Railroader??, November I believe !! about the PROTO: concept..( regarding copyright, yeah I understand it's technically a no-no, but I don't intend to profit by it, and I buy the Mag anyway) but we only just got September's and I really am very interested in reading the article. I can accept files in pretty well any format for anyone who can help.

Thanks

Richard
Group: S-Trains Message: 91 From: Roger Hinds Date: 10/7/1998
Subject: Re: Rust
Roger Hinds wrote:
>
> To Roger Delthony and others;
> When rust remover takes off rust of metals you will have a black
> stain. which is exactly what it is, a stain (not rust). There is no such
> thing as black rust. To prove this. Rust will not conduct electricity.
> Use a multi-meter to check on the black stain to see if you can get a
> meter reading through the stain. Which you will get. Sometimes the stain
> is outright gunk like you get on your train wheels. Of course this will
> not allow electricity to flow. Quite often the black stain is etching
> done by rust eating into the metal. In the case of the erector set
> parts. You will never get to the original shine without chrome plating
> the parts. I mentioned before that this polish will not replace the
> sheen in your track When the plating is gone its gone. At least your
> track will be clean, shiny and useable after using the polish.
>
> Wait a minute! Time out. I am going to double check something. Be
> right Back.
>
> I'Mmmm Baaaack.
>
> During my time out I went and got a section of rail. A real rusty one.
> Real thick and grimy.
> I rubbed on the metal polish with vigor. Rust gone. On the bottom of
> the rail where the seam is I did the same. Rust gone. --- Ahah ! There
> is the black left over just as I suspected. This shall be a good test of
> the polish. I rubbed it in with a cloth. Looks better. Still some black.
> Next I put the polish on again and scrubbed with a toothbrush.
> The black is gone just as I suspected.
> On light rust, in most cases. wipe it on and wipe it off with a little
> scrubbing. The thicker the rust the harder you will have to work. This
> will not take off real thick rust. Like the rust on exhaust pipes. If
> the rust is that thick then throw the piece away. When something is
> realy bad and I want to save it, I use a wire wheel to take off the
> heavy rust and then use the polish to clean it up.
> Anyway the point is. In more severe cases of rust, you will have to
> work harder to Scrub of the rust.
> Mr. Delthony; Try to use a brush to scrub in the polish. You may have
> better results.
>
> Roger
>
> PS: I forgot to mention. Some of the rails on my layout were rusty
> before I laid them.
> Probably still are on the sides. The rail heads are still shiny and
> the trains have been running for 17 years with no trouble.
Group: S-Trains Message: 92 From: RWJW3@aol.com Date: 10/8/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 10
I

<< Cleaning Old Tarnished AF Track
From: "L123 Montgomery" <l >>

To clean old AF track I have always used the ScotchBrite, WD40 treatment.
To set up my existing layout, all the AF track was purchased from Junk boxes
at shows and sprayed liberally with WD40 and scrubbed with a scotch brite pad.
Finish with a soft cloth and most of the track cleaned up real well. I did use
emery cloth on the pins to insure good electrical contact and have had no
problem with slippage even on the grades (used gargrave track there) after I
was done.
Good Luck
Bob Wheeler
Group: S-Trains Message: 93 From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx Date: 10/8/1998
Subject: WANTED: GMC
see http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=34194613
A GMC like this one (I don't need the trailers).
And I don't need it in mint condition.

Ted Larson mhrreast@...
Spring CHORES are done! Bring on the SUMMER!!!!


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Group: S-Trains Message: 94 From: John Foley Date: 10/8/1998
Subject: South Jersay S Gaugers Train Show
Hi Folks
This Sunday Oct.11 the SJSG club will have their muti-gauge train
show at
the Bellmawr NJ Fire and Rescue Station. I like this show because there is
plenty
of S items for sale. Also the NASG gets to promote S gauge railroading to
non S
gaugers and to folks who are deciding what gauge to get into. So if you
live not
to far away come and visit and stop by the NASG table. Of course the SJSS
layout
will be in full operation, always worth a trip by it self. Bellmawr NJ is
located
due east of Philly off interstate 76 & 295. The address is 29 Lewis Ave,
Bellmawr
NJ. It's open 10 am to 3 pm
Thanks
John Foley
Group: S-Trains Message: 95 From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx Date: 10/8/1998
Subject: SPAM
I have been getting a lot of SPAM in the last few months.
Today, I got a SPAM message that included an 800 number,
so I called them up to find out WHERE they got my e-mail
address, so that I could go to the source and ask them to
stop distributing my address.

They were quite nice, and told me that they got my address
from my web site! I don't have a web site!! They told me that
they have a program that reads web sites and records any
e-mail addresses that are found!!!

So, that means that all our web sites that list e-mail addresses
to make it easy to communicate open us to SPAM!!!!

What to do?

On some sites, if you click the address, your browser brings up
an e-mail form ready for you to fill in. Instead of listing the
address, I'm wondering if the web pages could be set so that
clicking on a NAME instead of an address brings up the e-mail form.

I read another suggestion for pages such as the NASG directory,
where there is just a listing of addresses. The recommendation
was to insert into each address EXTRA characters, and instructl the
directory reader to take OUT those extra characters to get the
real address. Example:
mhrreast@... could be listed as mhrreast@...
Any automated program would then record an elongated non-existent
address, and protect me from getting new spam.

Ted Larson mhrreast@...
Spring CHORES are done! Bring on the SUMMER!!!!

___________________________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 96 From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx Date: 10/8/1998
Subject: MACK B
For anybody who has not yet seen it, the ERTL
MACK B looks GREAT; its appearance matches
the prototype very well, and without actually
measuring a prototype, it appears to be 1:64th
scale. The red body with black fenders gives
the look of the '50's very nicely, and the nicely
detailed exhaust stack and air cleaner add a
great sense of realism. ONE little complaint;
the spacing of the wheels makes the truck
look pigeon toed. The front wheels are closer
together than other S scale trucks of similar
size, and the rear wheels are farther apart!

There is a real Mack B in town that I am
trying to find so that I can take some
measurements. Short of that, I recommend
that anybody operating in the '50's through
the '70's should have at least one of these.
Just shorten the rear axles so that the truck
is 8 feet wide across the rear tires. I have not
seen any truck wider than this.

Ted Larson mhrreast@...
Spring CHORES are done! Bring on the SUMMER!!!!

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Group: S-Trains Message: 97 From: Richard Snook Date: 10/8/1998
Subject: Miller tie strip
Hello all

Firstly thanks to all who offered help regarding MR article,look forward to reading it.

On another note, I recall, way back mid to late seventies an article on 'S"
Group: S-Trains Message: 98 From: Richard Snook Date: 10/8/1998
Subject: FW: Miller tie strip
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Snook [SMTP:richard.snook@...]
Sent: Friday, October 09, 1998 4:03 PM
To: S SCALE list Serve (E-mail)
Subject: Miller tie strip

Hello all

Firstly thanks to all who offered help regarding MR article,look forward to reading it.

On another note, I recall, way back mid to late seventies an article on 'S" a reference to a tie strip made by Miller ?? What ever happened to this line? is it still produced? without being too indelicate..was it any good??

Thanks again

Richard
Group: S-Trains Message: 99 From: Richard Snook Date: 10/9/1998
Subject: Proto relevent website
Hello all again

For those who have expressed an interest in the PROTO:scale concept , may I tke a moment to direct you to the , well,words fail me ..extaordinary site dedicated to PROTO:87, whilst not advocating any particular duplication of their effort for any group for the 1/64 minded it certainly shows graphically and explains very clearly the whole concept and application of PROTO/SCALE.

you might like to have a look at http://www.cs.utk.edu/~davison/proto87/proto87.html

also http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/ukcanuck/p87Journal6/turnout.html

cheers

Richard
Group: S-Trains Message: 100 From: skeeze@xx.xxxxxx.xxx Date: 10/9/1998
Subject: Couplers
I grew up operating an AF train set at Christmas time and recently
purchased a few AF engines and cabooses to start a collection. But to
my suprise these units have some type of coupler that is not the knuckle
coupler that I was used to back in my childhood years. These have what
looks like a hook or something...can I replace this coupler with the
knuckle style, and where can I get the knuckle style couplers if
available?
Thanks.
skeeze
Group: S-Trains Message: 101 From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com Date: 10/9/1998
Subject: couplers
Skeeze,

You can easily convert your link (hook) couplers to knuckle. Knuckle
couplers are available from most AF parts dealers. Just ask for the type
used for a link conversion (some have slot, hole, slot and hole). I've
found that there are two quality levels of knuckle couplers out there.
Some a have bright silver king pin (head visible from top of coupler) and a
lead weight that is just pressed onto the stem. Others, the more reliable
and desirable, look more like the original and their weights are better
secured to a metal weight. The lesser quality couplers cost ~$2, the
better ones $2.75-$3, but worth it if you're an operator. To remove the
older style link, gently wiggle it with pliers. The tongue that it's post
goes through will bend some, but the unit should come free pretty easily.
Straighten the tongue, and install the knuckle coupler using either a
cotter pin (also available from most dealers) or a short bolt with double
nuts (Radio Shack has a size that works just right). Then enjoy!

Where there's smoke,
there's Flyer.

Dave
Group: S-Trains Message: 102 From: Haenn, Joe Date: 10/9/1998
Subject: Help at York
Dear List Members,

Unfortunately, my York helper will be unable to make it. If there is
anyone out there who knows a little about American Flyer and AF parts, is
going to be at York, and would be willing to help me at my tables in the
Black Hall during Friday and/or Saturday, please let me know. If you can
work from about 10:30 am to 2:30 pm each day, I would be willing to pay
your room costs for one evening plus ten dollars per hour. This will
leave you time to browse, with some extra cash in your pocket. If you
can only work part of the time, let's see what we can work out. Any
workers would get a crash course in AF parts and the parts business.

If interested, please e-mail me at joes-train-repair@....

Thanks,
Joe

Joe's Train Repair 404 Shetland Road
Rougemont, North Carolina 27572-9338
Order Fax: 919/471-2613
joes-train-repair@...
################################
Specializing in S-Gauge Trains & Parts
American Flyer Parts Dealer
American Models S-Helper Service
Group: S-Trains Message: 103 From: John Foley Date: 10/9/1998
Subject: Promotions
Hi Folks
Joel Lebovitz is the NASG Promotions Chaimen. I mention this so
you S
manufactures can take advantage of Joels hard work. Joel puts together
packages
of S literature that he sends to clubs and individuals who promote S gauge at
shows and such. And speaking of clubs please feel free to contact Joel at
Joel Lebovitz
1340 W. Greenleaf Ave. atp. 1-N
Chicago, IL 60626
Phone 773-262-5668

P.S. Please feel free to contact me if I can help in any way.
Group: S-Trains Message: 104 From: Thompson, Keith Date: 10/9/1998
Subject: Re: SPAM
Hi all,

One way to fight SPAM is avoid those so-called free e-mail accounts. After
all, how do you think they bay for their equipment. We live in the
information age and these folks are mining information.

If you use a paid-for permanent mail service, you've got someone you can
point the finger at if you get spammed. All you'll have to do is look at the
spam's "envelope" information and you'll see if it was addressed to your
paid-for account or a list. If it was addressed to a list, the listserv is
required to give you their return address -- so write them, ask them to take
you off of their list, and find out how they got your e-mail address. If
your paid-for e-mail provider gave it out without your permission, threaten
to take your business somewhere else!

I use a paid-for e-mail provider called Rail-Mail that's geared towards
railroad fans. You can find out more about the firm's offerings at
http://www.railmail.com/. That's how I get the e-mail address of
bubba@....

BTW, Do you know where the term SPAM comes from? One theory has it that
"there's not much difference between the pronunciation of Hormel and whore
mail." At least it sounds plausible. -- Keith Thompson
Group: S-Trains Message: 105 From: Roger Hinds Date: 10/9/1998
Subject: Track products
I forgot to post my address that want to order my track treatment
products.

This is for the metal polish (rust remover)
And oil.

Order From;

Roger Hinds
6 Trudeau Rd.
Bethlehem NH
03574

Check or Money order Thank you one and all.
Group: S-Trains Message: 106 From: Roger Hinds Date: 10/9/1998
Subject: SPAM
Do a "JunkMail" search in one of your search engines. There are
locations
that will take your E-mail address of the lists.

In your web address area type in Dogpile.com this is a search
engine that will search several search engines all at once.

Do Search engines come in different scales. :o)

Roger
Group: S-Trains Message: 107 From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx Date: 10/9/1998
Subject: Re: Couplers
Skeeze,

Yes, you can convert link to knuckle couplers, as per the excellent advise
given on this board. But, before you do convert it might be worthwhile to
think twice about doing it, depending on what the engines and cars are. As
your collection grows, you may wish to have link coupler representation in it.
Link couplers are method that Gilbert used to connect toy trains together from
1938 to 1941 and from 1946 to 1953. Although nominally not as realistic
looking as knuckle couplers, the link couplers do operate very well. Link
couplers also space the cars at scale distance, while the knuckle couplers do
not. A set of link coupler heavy weight passenger cars always look better in
a string than do the knuckle coupler versions because the vestibul doors
between the cars are close to each other, as with real trains. The knuckle
coupler versions leave fairly large gaps between the cars (although not as bad
as anything from the Big L!). Another possibility is taking common cars, as
many of us do, and making them "adapters" with knuckle on one end and link on
the other.

Just a thought.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 108 From: Dennis Back Date: 10/9/1998
Subject: smelly smoke
Hi y'all:

I have had AF steam engines since 1950. Over the years, especially
after 1968, I have used smoke other than AF brands because I couldn't
find AF smoke. I have used "L" and even some purple colored LifeLike
smoke.

My problem is....now that I can get AF scented smoke, I can't get rid
of the stinkin' "L" smell! Is there any thing I can do short of
replacing the smoke unit? Has anyone else had this problem?

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

Dennis Back
Miami, Fl.
Group: S-Trains Message: 109 From: Ken Zieska Date: 10/9/1998
Subject: C-D Models
I had the opportunity to talk to the folks at C-D models this evening.
I received images from them of some of the work they are producing and
it looks terriffic. I intend to stop out and see them in the next week
or so and pick up some items that I can review for S-mail and the
magazines. From what we discussed and the images they sent, we have the
opportunity to add some beautiful items that will really accent a fine
model railroad. In addition, they know how to model a scene which is a
skill that has a great deal of transfer to our hobby. Although the next
two weeks are pretty busy, I will get make sure I get together with them
and more good news, they are interested in attending the NASG
Convention!
Ken Z.
Group: S-Trains Message: 110 From: Al Castellani Date: 10/10/1998
Subject: Al Castellani/CBT is out of the office.
I will be out of the office from 10/09/98 until 10/13/98.

I will respond to your message when I return.
Group: S-Trains Message: 111 From: Chuck Smith Date: 10/10/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 12
S-Trains@onelist.com wrote:

> 7. Re: Couplers

> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 20:16:03 EDT
> From: RBubeck327@...
> Subject: Re: Couplers
>
> Skeeze,
>
> Yes, you can convert link to knuckle couplers, as per the excellent advise
> given on this board. But, before you do convert it might be worthwhile to
> think twice about doing it, depending on what the engines and cars are. As
> your collection grows, you may wish to have link coupler representation in it.
> Link couplers are method that Gilbert used to connect toy trains together from
> 1938 to 1941 and from 1946 to 1953. Although nominally not as realistic
> looking as knuckle couplers, the link couplers do operate very well. Link
> couplers also space the cars at scale distance, while the knuckle couplers do
> not. A set of link coupler heavy weight passenger cars always look better in
> a string than do the knuckle coupler versions because the vestibul doors
> between the cars are close to each other, as with real trains. The knuckle
> coupler versions leave fairly large gaps between the cars (although not as bad
> as anything from the Big L!). Another possibility is taking common cars, as
> many of us do, and making them "adapters" with knuckle on one end and link on
> the other.
>
AMEN! I have actually converted passenger cars back to link to avoid
the huge gaps between cars. What works good for coupling to engines if
you don't have a link engine is an express reefer with a link on one end
and a knuckle on the other. I also have a baggage car with a link and
knuckle on opposite ends of the same truck. I spin it around dependiong
on the loco. The bracket to hold one coupler was epoxied to the truck
and has held for many years.
--
"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers and the
S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith
Group: S-Trains Message: 112 From: W. Thomas Boussum Date: 10/10/1998
Subject: Switching couplers
Regarding the changing of link couplers to knuckles, I like R. Bubeck,
believe that a much better move would be to make up one or two "two
ended cars." My passenger coaches are, for the most part, all equipped
with link couplers. So I took a ratty B&O refrigerator car and put a
knuckle coupler on one end. This enables me to run it as an express
reefer in a passenger train when the locomotive is equipped with knuckle
couplers.
Of course the same car can bne used to make a successful transition
with freight trains. I also have several other freight cars that use a
knuckle coupler on one end to allow for all sorts of variations in my
rolling stock. Like RB pointed out, the Flyer link couplers have a much
better scale distance between cars. I d0 have one set of heavyweight
and one set of streamlined coaches that are equipped with knuckle
couplers, but I think that they look too much like toys to fully
appreciate.
Also from the viewpoint of modifying potential collector's pieces one
should think twice before making any changes to their Flyer equipment.
W. Thomas Boussum
Group: S-Trains Message: 113 From: John Foley Date: 10/11/1998
Subject: YORK PA
Hello
Anyone going to York Pa. for the TCA meet? if you are and you
come a
day or two earlier stop in at the Valancia Ballroom train show from the
13th-15th and say hello. the ballroom is in the middle of the downtown area
on George St.
Thanks
John Foley
Group: S-Trains Message: 114 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 10/12/1998
Subject: Stink'n L-smell
You could try using solvents in combination with better smoke fluid (I like
Lehigh Valley Train Service S-Gauge fluid best) to purge the wick. It
might take several iterations. I've used the following different
combinations to loosen up old wicks with pretty good success - - but other
times, you just have to replace the wick and coil.
1) Put in several drops of track cleaner followed by several drops of smoke
fluid. Run the engine a while. Repeat. When you put the engine away for
the night, add a few more drops of track cleaner. I use the blue track
cleaner, I'm at work now and can't remember the brand name. (I actually
clean my track with CRC-5-56 on a rag and then a clean cloth.)
2) Squirt TV tuner into a small bottle to collect its fluid. I use a empty
smoke fluid bottle, the eye dropper comes in handy. Follow the above
procedure, but using tuner cleaner instead of track cleaner. Squirting the
TV tuner cleaner straight into the unit from the can works, but I don't
like all the overspray and the propellant chills everything very suddenly
(not sure that's bad - - anyone know?). I've also found Color TV tuner
cleaner doesn't work as well, or the same, and regular TV tuner cleaner,
not sure why, just does. (Anyone with any comments?)
3) Use drops of paint thinner, sparingly. Some say it's OK to run the
unit. I don't trust the flammability, so I only add this when I know the
unit will sit long enough for the thinner to have likely evaporated before
next running the engine.

The fun in them is in runn'n them.

Dave
Group: S-Trains Message: 115 From: kelvin white Date: 10/12/1998
Subject: The S Scale Aligator Hunt
My thanks to all the folks who replied to my earlier Email: `Aligators
wanted - raid the toy box'. Required for my Sn3 South Carolina logging
layout.

Richard Snook (Australia) has sent me a small packet of plastic
Aligators. There are 12 in a packet - 6 different mouldings (2 of each)
According to the moulding on the belly there are two Gavals, two Caiman,
six Crocodiles and two Aligators. All are made in China. Overal length
of all of them is between 75 & 80mm (15 ft 9in - 16ft 9in in S scale).
Moulding plastic is a yellow ochre colour, with the top of the body
sprayed a grey, blue/black, brown as appropiate. The quality of the
moulding is good.

The Models are marketed by Toysmith (Kent WA) in their Mini Menagerie
range item #37400 - Age range 3 & up (so it means we are OK)! The price
was $5.99 (Aus) - I've no idea what that is in sterling or US.$s.

My thanks for the suggestions of trying Zoos, Aquarians and Aligator
Farms - and the University of Florida @ Gainsville.

I doubt if it will be possible to get models smaller than 3 inches -
risk of swallowing by small children - unless the gators are attached to
a key ring or something.

If anybody locates a supply of 2 inch gators, please let me know.

In the interim I owe Richard a pint or two
--
Kelvin White
Oxford England
Group: S-Trains Message: 116 From: Kempfam@xxx.xxx Date: 10/12/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 14
Am looking for an 0-8-0, don't mind a junker, preferably with KC's.
Group: S-Trains Message: 117 From: Wayne Zebron Date: 10/12/1998
Subject: (no subject)
Hi,

In building my American Flyer Layout I am making us of gargraves hi rail
track. I would like to install several uncoulers (AF). I was planing to
place a section (half track) of original AF track between the gargraves to
install the uncouler. I was also thinking there may be a way to install the
AF uncouple under the layout and design some extension to fit through the
gargraves track. Any ideas out there.

Thanks,
Wayne
Group: S-Trains Message: 118 From: L Montgomery Date: 10/13/1998
Subject: Cleaning Plastic Passenger Cars
Hi folks,

I have some old AF passenger cars painted silver with red stripes on the sides. They are kind of dirty but I'm hesitant to clean them with anything that might remove the paint or otherwise cause damage. They have lots of grooves running lenthwise.

Any advice?

TIA

Monty
---
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Outlaw Junk Email! Support HR 1748.



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Group: S-Trains Message: 119 From: Jim Grimes Date: 10/13/1998
Subject: York???
I am planning to go to York this weekend and I have heard of other
activities [ sales, seminars etc.] that occur at the same time outside
of the fairgrounds location.
Can anyone give me any information [locations, directions, or times]
of these activities?
Thanks and I hope to see you all there!
--
Jim and Ingrid Grimes
Trailside Bikes
35 Sixth St. South
Custer SD 57730
605-673-5526
888-673-BIKE (toll free)
tsbikes@...
http://www.TrailsideBikes.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 120 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 10/13/1998
Subject: ACCESSORIES & GARGRAVES
I also run on Gargraves track. I cut pieces of Gilbert track to just
the length of the accessory or pickup. The pins hold the pieces of
Gilbert track firmly to the Gargraves. I then install the uncoupler or
other track trip as necessary.

Staying on S-Gauge track, Glenn
Group: S-Trains Message: 121 From: Roger Hinds Date: 10/13/1998
Subject: Train
I am sending off a picture of a train I drew up. Let me know if it is
compatible with the e-mail forum.
Roger
Group: S-Trains Message: 122 From: Roger Hinds Date: 10/13/1998
Subject: Picture
Hi Paul;
I sent off a train picture to One list.
Some how it also sends off the drawing program(paintbrush) with it.
I am using Netscape navigator. You would't happen to know how to send
the picture without the drawing program would you?
Perhaps I should have move the picture elsewhere first?
Roger
Group: S-Trains Message: 123 From: louis glumac Date: 10/13/1998
Subject: value line track
hello i am looking for some value line track that was made a couple of
years ago if anyone has any please let me know!!!!!!! thanks lou

----------
> From: S-Trains@onelist.com
> To: S-Trains@onelist.com
> Subject: [S-Trains] Digest Number 15
> Date: Tuesday, October 13, 1998 4:14 AM
>
>
> Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
> service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
> http://www.onelist.com/advert.html for more information.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> For information about this list contact Paul Yorke (yorke@...) or
visit http://www.gate.net/~yorke/smail.htm
>
>
> There are 4 messages in this issue.
>
> Topics in today's digest:
>
> 1. Stink'n L-smell
> From: David_Horn@...
> 2. The S Scale Aligator Hunt
> From: kelvin white <kelvin@...>
> 3. Re: Digest Number 14
> From: Kempfam@...
> 4. (no subject)
> From: Wayne Zebron <zebbie@...>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
___
>
____________________________________________________________________________
___
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 11:05:45 -0400
> From: David_Horn@...
> Subject: Stink'n L-smell
>
> You could try using solvents in combination with better smoke fluid (I
like
> Lehigh Valley Train Service S-Gauge fluid best) to purge the wick. It
> might take several iterations. I've used the following different
> combinations to loosen up old wicks with pretty good success - - but
other
> times, you just have to replace the wick and coil.
> 1) Put in several drops of track cleaner followed by several drops of
smoke
> fluid. Run the engine a while. Repeat. When you put the engine away for
> the night, add a few more drops of track cleaner. I use the blue track
> cleaner, I'm at work now and can't remember the brand name. (I actually
> clean my track with CRC-5-56 on a rag and then a clean cloth.)
> 2) Squirt TV tuner into a small bottle to collect its fluid. I use a
empty
> smoke fluid bottle, the eye dropper comes in handy. Follow the above
> procedure, but using tuner cleaner instead of track cleaner. Squirting
the
> TV tuner cleaner straight into the unit from the can works, but I don't
> like all the overspray and the propellant chills everything very suddenly
> (not sure that's bad - - anyone know?). I've also found Color TV tuner
> cleaner doesn't work as well, or the same, and regular TV tuner cleaner,
> not sure why, just does. (Anyone with any comments?)
> 3) Use drops of paint thinner, sparingly. Some say it's OK to run the
> unit. I don't trust the flammability, so I only add this when I know the
> unit will sit long enough for the thinner to have likely evaporated
before
> next running the engine.
>
> The fun in them is in runn'n them.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
___
>
____________________________________________________________________________
___
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 16:49:34 +0100
> From: kelvin white <kelvin@...>
> Subject: The S Scale Aligator Hunt
>
> My thanks to all the folks who replied to my earlier Email: `Aligators
> wanted - raid the toy box'. Required for my Sn3 South Carolina logging
> layout.
>
> Richard Snook (Australia) has sent me a small packet of plastic
> Aligators. There are 12 in a packet - 6 different mouldings (2 of each)
> According to the moulding on the belly there are two Gavals, two Caiman,
> six Crocodiles and two Aligators. All are made in China. Overal length
> of all of them is between 75 & 80mm (15 ft 9in - 16ft 9in in S scale).
> Moulding plastic is a yellow ochre colour, with the top of the body
> sprayed a grey, blue/black, brown as appropiate. The quality of the
> moulding is good.
>
> The Models are marketed by Toysmith (Kent WA) in their Mini Menagerie
> range item #37400 - Age range 3 & up (so it means we are OK)! The price
> was $5.99 (Aus) - I've no idea what that is in sterling or US.$s.
>
> My thanks for the suggestions of trying Zoos, Aquarians and Aligator
> Farms - and the University of Florida @ Gainsville.
>
> I doubt if it will be possible to get models smaller than 3 inches -
> risk of swallowing by small children - unless the gators are attached to
> a key ring or something.
>
> If anybody locates a supply of 2 inch gators, please let me know.
>
> In the interim I owe Richard a pint or two
> --
> Kelvin White
> Oxford England
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
___
>
____________________________________________________________________________
___
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 20:30:44 EDT
> From: Kempfam@...
> Subject: Re: Digest Number 14
>
> Am looking for an 0-8-0, don't mind a junker, preferably with KC's.
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
___
>
____________________________________________________________________________
___
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 22:24:34 -0500
> From: Wayne Zebron <zebbie@...>
> Subject: (no subject)
>
> Hi,
>
> In building my American Flyer Layout I am making us of gargraves hi rail
> track. I would like to install several uncoulers (AF). I was planing to
> place a section (half track) of original AF track between the gargraves
to
> install the uncouler. I was also thinking there may be a way to install
the
> AF uncouple under the layout and design some extension to fit through the
> gargraves track. Any ideas out there.
>
> Thanks,
> Wayne
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
___
>
____________________________________________________________________________
___
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 124 From: Paul Yorke Date: 10/14/1998
Subject: Sharing graphics
The best way to share graphic with the list, is to send them to me
first, I put them on the web, then tell you where they are and you
mention the link in your note.
Like http://www.gate.net/~yorke/train.gif is Roger Hinds graphic, and
http://www.gate.net/~yorke/9600a.jpg is a picture from CD Models.
They can give you all the details.

--
Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl.
American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers
http://www.gate.net/~yorke (alt e-mail paulyork@...)
Group: S-Trains Message: 125 From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com Date: 10/14/1998
Subject: cleaning cars
After removing the body from the chassis, I usually first try a bucket of
warm (not hot) water with liquid Ivory soap (not a detergent) and some soft
paint brushes. Rinse and tamp dry with clean cotton towels, or allow to
air dry. Tough spots, a little windex on a rag followed by fresh water (I
rinse with distilled water in a pump bottle, doesn't leave spots).
Group: S-Trains Message: 126 From: W. Thomas Boussum Date: 10/14/1998
Subject: Layout pictures
'S' gauge fans,
I recently started working on a website at
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hall/3703
For the most part it is devoted to science and transportation, but I
have added some model railroad links to the site. I would like to post
some pictures of 'S' gauge layouts in all categories: American Flyer
tinplate or semi-scale, scale layouts, standard or narrow gauge layouts,
etc. I would also like to post photos of pet projects: scatch-built,
kits, or kit-bashed locomotives and rolling stock in 'S' gauge. You
could include pictures of scenery or buildings or anything else that
might be of interest to other 'S' gaugers. So get your digital cameras
or scanners working and send me some of your pictures.
If you have prints of some of your projects ad send them to me via
snailmail I can scan them on my 24-bit scanner and post them.
Unfortunately my scanner does not handle slides. I have tried to put
some of my slides up to no avail. Any photos received by that route
will be returned to the sender via snailmail after they have been
scanned and posted on my website.
'S' gauge
'S'cale
'S'atisfaction,
W. Thomas Boussum
Group: S-Trains Message: 127 From: W. Thomas Boussum Date: 10/14/1998
Subject: Cleaning plastic passenger cars.
This is sent in response to L. Montgomery's question about cleaning
plastic passenger cars. I normally use a mild dishwashing solution with
lukewarm water to accomplish this with my New Haven and heavyweght
coaches. First I take the coach bodies off the chassis and remove the
paper window backing before I start to clean the coaches. If the window
strips are badly soiled they should be removed and washed separately.
Then using the dishwashing soap and water clean the car body and window
strips. Rinse the body and window strips and place on a towel to dry.
After the coach is dried it may be put back together.
A note of CAUTION: If the coach is decorated with decals chances are
that the decals will come off, since the backing is water soluble. In
that case I have no recommendations as to how to proceed. None of my
coaches have decals, so I use the method given above.
Mild dishwashing soap and water will not craze the plastic surface and
will get your rolling stock back into first-class appearance.
'S' gauge
'S'cale
'S'atisfaction,
W. Thomas Boussum
Group: S-Trains Message: 128 From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx Date: 10/14/1998
Subject: Swap wheel sets
Would like to swap 29 American Model scale wheel sets, grey metal w/white
insulator,(set= 2 axels and four wheels) and 12 Pacific Rail Shops scale
trucks w/scale plastic wheel set for 16 sets of S Helper Service high rail
wheels(set= 2 axels and fowheels). 'S'incerely, Tom Davis, Charlotte,N.C.
Group: S-Trains Message: 129 From: Roy Plotnick Date: 10/14/1998
Subject: Fall S-fest
If any of you are planning to attend the Fall S-fest, please say hello if
you see me. My layout
(the Yellow Brick Railraod) will be part of the layout tours on Sunday. -Roy
Roy E. Plotnick
Professor
Department of Earth and Environmental Sciences
University of Illinois at Chicago
845 W. Taylor St.
Chicago, IL 60607
plotnick@...
phone: 312-996-2111 fax: 312-413-2279
web page: http://www.uic.edu/depts/geos/plotnick.htm
"The scientific celebrities, forgetting their molluscs and glacial
periods, gossiped about art, while devoting themselves to oysters and ices
with characteristic energy.." -Little Women, Louisa May Alcott
Group: S-Trains Message: 130 From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton Date: 10/14/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 16
The absolutely most correct way to clean these shells is to remove them
from the metal chassis by removing the chassis pins (or screws). Then
taking out the paper diffuser and the silhouettes. You can then immerse
the plastic shell in warm soapy water and brush with a soft bristle brush.
I use Dawn liquid detergent because it is very mild.

If you do not want to disassemble the cars, then take a sponge dampened
slightly with soapy solution and wash the surfaces thoroughly. Rinse with
the sponge dampened in clean water. When you have removed all the dirt
you can, you might want to try a light polishing compound. I have had good
luck with a liquid compound that you can get at any auto parts or discount
store. I don't think the particular brand is important. Do NOT get rubbing
compound--it is too abrasive.

The polishing compound removes oxidation and any stubborn dirt the soap did
not loosen. Rub the polish lightly with a soft cloth and wipe off. If any
of the hazy residue remains in nooks and crannies,use a stiff bristle
brush, or a toothbrush or finger nail brush to remove the residue. STAY
AWAY FROM NUMBERS AND LETTERING. This paint is thin and you might cut
through it!

This works for me. The polish restores the original shine to the paint,
and the lustre does not look "fake."

----------
> From: S-Trains@onelist.com
> To: S-Trains@onelist.com
> Subject: [S-Trains] Digest Number 16
> Date: Wednesday, October 14, 1998 7:21 AM
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> For information about this list contact Paul Yorke (yorke@...) or
visit http://www.gate.net/~yorke/smail.htm
>
>
> There are 7 messages in this issue.
>
> Topics in today's digest:
>
> 1. Cleaning Plastic Passenger Cars
> From: "L Montgomery" <lmontgo@...>
> 2. York???
> From: Jim Grimes <tsbikes@...>
> 3. ACCESSORIES & GARGRAVES
> From: Glenn Ritter <gartrain@...>
> 4. Train
> From: Roger Hinds <cofa@...>
> 5. Picture
> From: Roger Hinds <cofa@...>
> 6. value line track
> From: "louis glumac" <glumac@...>
> 7. Sharing graphics
> From: Paul Yorke <yorke@...>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
___
>
____________________________________________________________________________
___
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 06:19:10 -0700
> From: "L Montgomery" <lmontgo@...>
> Subject: Cleaning Plastic Passenger Cars
>
> Hi folks,
>
> I have some old AF passenger cars painted silver with red stripes on the
sides. They are kind of dirty but I'm hesitant to clean them with anything
that might remove the paint or otherwise cause damage. They have lots of
grooves running lenthwise.
>
> Any advice?
>
> TIA
>
> Monty
> ---
> Fight Spam! Join CAUCE! == http://www.cauce.org/
> Outlaw Junk Email! Support HR 1748.
>
>
>
> -----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==-----
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
___
>
____________________________________________________________________________
___
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 14:41:51 -0400
> From: Jim Grimes <tsbikes@...>
> Subject: York???
>
> I am planning to go to York this weekend and I have heard of other
> activities [ sales, seminars etc.] that occur at the same time outside
> of the fairgrounds location.
> Can anyone give me any information [locations, directions, or times]
> of these activities?
> Thanks and I hope to see you all there!
> --
> Jim and Ingrid Grimes
> Trailside Bikes
> 35 Sixth St. South
> Custer SD 57730
> 605-673-5526
> 888-673-BIKE (toll free)
> tsbikes@...
> http://www.TrailsideBikes.com
>
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
___
>
____________________________________________________________________________
___
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 15:21:43 -0700
> From: Glenn Ritter <gartrain@...>
> Subject: ACCESSORIES & GARGRAVES
>
> I also run on Gargraves track. I cut pieces of Gilbert track to just
> the length of the accessory or pickup. The pins hold the pieces of
> Gilbert track firmly to the Gargraves. I then install the uncoupler or
> other track trip as necessary.
>
> Staying on S-Gauge track, Glenn
>
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
___
>
____________________________________________________________________________
___
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 17:07:18 -0700
> From: Roger Hinds <cofa@...>
> Subject: Train
>
> I am sending off a picture of a train I drew up. Let me know if it is
> compatible with the e-mail forum.
> Roger
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
___
>
____________________________________________________________________________
___
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 17:45:55 -0700
> From: Roger Hinds <cofa@...>
> Subject: Picture
>
> Hi Paul;
> I sent off a train picture to One list.
> Some how it also sends off the drawing program(paintbrush) with it.
> I am using Netscape navigator. You would't happen to know how to send
> the picture without the drawing program would you?
> Perhaps I should have move the picture elsewhere first?
> Roger
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
___
>
____________________________________________________________________________
___
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 19:53:42 -0700
> From: "louis glumac" <glumac@...>
> Subject: value line track
>
> hello i am looking for some value line track that was made a couple of
> years ago if anyone has any please let me know!!!!!!! thanks lou
>
> ----------
> > From: S-Trains@onelist.com
> > To: S-Trains@onelist.com
> > Subject: [S-Trains] Digest Number 15
> > Date: Tuesday, October 13, 1998 4:14 AM
> >
> >
> > Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
> > service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
> > http://www.onelist.com/advert.html for more information.
> >
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > For information about this list contact Paul Yorke (yorke@...) or
> visit http://www.gate.net/~yorke/smail.htm
> >
> >
> > There are 4 messages in this issue.
> >
> > Topics in today's digest:
> >
> > 1. Stink'n L-smell
> > From: David_Horn@...
> > 2. The S Scale Aligator Hunt
> > From: kelvin white <kelvin@...>
> > 3. Re: Digest Number 14
> > From: Kempfam@...
> > 4. (no subject)
> > From: Wayne Zebron <zebbie@...>
> >
> >
> >
>
____________________________________________________________________________

> ___
> >
>
____________________________________________________________________________

> ___
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 11:05:45 -0400
> > From: David_Horn@...
> > Subject: Stink'n L-smell
> >
> > You could try using solvents in combination with better smoke fluid (I
> like
> > Lehigh Valley Train Service S-Gauge fluid best) to purge the wick. It
> > might take several iterations. I've used the following different
> > combinations to loosen up old wicks with pretty good success - - but
> other
> > times, you just have to replace the wick and coil.
> > 1) Put in several drops of track cleaner followed by several drops of
> smoke
> > fluid. Run the engine a while. Repeat. When you put the engine away
for
> > the night, add a few more drops of track cleaner. I use the blue track
> > cleaner, I'm at work now and can't remember the brand name. (I
actually
> > clean my track with CRC-5-56 on a rag and then a clean cloth.)
> > 2) Squirt TV tuner into a small bottle to collect its fluid. I use a
> empty
> > smoke fluid bottle, the eye dropper comes in handy. Follow the above
> > procedure, but using tuner cleaner instead of track cleaner. Squirting
> the
> > TV tuner cleaner straight into the unit from the can works, but I don't
> > like all the overspray and the propellant chills everything very
suddenly
> > (not sure that's bad - - anyone know?). I've also found Color TV tuner
> > cleaner doesn't work as well, or the same, and regular TV tuner
cleaner,
> > not sure why, just does. (Anyone with any comments?)
> > 3) Use drops of paint thinner, sparingly. Some say it's OK to run the
> > unit. I don't trust the flammability, so I only add this when I know
the
> > unit will sit long enough for the thinner to have likely evaporated
> before
> > next running the engine.
> >
> > The fun in them is in runn'n them.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
____________________________________________________________________________

> ___
> >
>
____________________________________________________________________________

> ___
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 16:49:34 +0100
> > From: kelvin white <kelvin@...>
> > Subject: The S Scale Aligator Hunt
> >
> > My thanks to all the folks who replied to my earlier Email: `Aligators
> > wanted - raid the toy box'. Required for my Sn3 South Carolina logging
> > layout.
> >
> > Richard Snook (Australia) has sent me a small packet of plastic
> > Aligators. There are 12 in a packet - 6 different mouldings (2 of each)
> > According to the moulding on the belly there are two Gavals, two
Caiman,
> > six Crocodiles and two Aligators. All are made in China. Overal length
> > of all of them is between 75 & 80mm (15 ft 9in - 16ft 9in in S scale).
> > Moulding plastic is a yellow ochre colour, with the top of the body
> > sprayed a grey, blue/black, brown as appropiate. The quality of the
> > moulding is good.
> >
> > The Models are marketed by Toysmith (Kent WA) in their Mini Menagerie
> > range item #37400 - Age range 3 & up (so it means we are OK)! The price
> > was $5.99 (Aus) - I've no idea what that is in sterling or US.$s.
> >
> > My thanks for the suggestions of trying Zoos, Aquarians and Aligator
> > Farms - and the University of Florida @ Gainsville.
> >
> > I doubt if it will be possible to get models smaller than 3 inches -
> > risk of swallowing by small children - unless the gators are attached
to
> > a key ring or something.
> >
> > If anybody locates a supply of 2 inch gators, please let me know.
> >
> > In the interim I owe Richard a pint or two
> > --
> > Kelvin White
> > Oxford England
> >
> >
> >
>
____________________________________________________________________________

> ___
> >
>
____________________________________________________________________________

> ___
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 20:30:44 EDT
> > From: Kempfam@...
> > Subject: Re: Digest Number 14
> >
> > Am looking for an 0-8-0, don't mind a junker, preferably with KC's.
> >
> >
> >
>
____________________________________________________________________________

> ___
> >
>
____________________________________________________________________________

> ___
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 22:24:34 -0500
> > From: Wayne Zebron <zebbie@...>
> > Subject: (no subject)
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > In building my American Flyer Layout I am making us of gargraves hi
rail
> > track. I would like to install several uncoulers (AF). I was planing to
> > place a section (half track) of original AF track between the gargraves
> to
> > install the uncouler. I was also thinking there may be a way to install
> the
> > AF uncouple under the layout and design some extension to fit through
the
> > gargraves track. Any ideas out there.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Wayne
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
____________________________________________________________________________

> ___
> >
>
____________________________________________________________________________

> ___
> >
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
___
>
____________________________________________________________________________
___
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 07:24:02 -0400
> From: Paul Yorke <yorke@...>
> Subject: Sharing graphics
>
> The best way to share graphic with the list, is to send them to me
> first, I put them on the web, then tell you where they are and you
> mention the link in your note.
> Like http://www.gate.net/~yorke/train.gif is Roger Hinds graphic, and
> http://www.gate.net/~yorke/9600a.jpg is a picture from CD Models.
> They can give you all the details.
>
> --
> Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl.
> American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers
> http://www.gate.net/~yorke (alt e-mail paulyork@...)
>
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
___
>
____________________________________________________________________________
___
Group: S-Trains Message: 131 From: David Dewey Date: 10/14/1998
Subject: Re: cleaning plastic streamline pass. cars
Hi all,
I've noted quite a few posters to this question have mentioned removing
the shiloutes.
On all my cars they are part of the window, and are *well* glued in. I
have yet to successfully remove them on cars I am repainting. Invariably
they get torn, or misshapen, so I replace them w/ good repros. There are
so-so repros and good ones, can't remember who sells which one!
For just cleaning, I agree, remove the chassis and paper diffuser and
clean the plastic shell. I like to put a blue diffuser in, as it gives the
cars a more prototypical look, as the real cars have fluorescent lighting
and tinted windows. The paper laundries use to wrap cleaned goods in is
perfect! (Hmm, my CHEAP! side is showing!<G>)
S'incerely,
David Dewey
Watch the Railroad watch and repeat after me, "The future is in S, the
future is in S, the future is in S, the future...."
Group: S-Trains Message: 132 From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx Date: 10/14/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 15
>I've also found Color TV tuner
>cleaner doesn't work as well, or the same, and regular TV tuner
>cleaner, not sure why, just does. (Anyone with any comments?)

Regular TV tuner cleaner would also be known as B&W TV tuner
cleaner?? Therefore that would be correct for steam engines,
except perhaps the color tuner cleaner would be correct for the
B&O Royal Blue????

Ted L

___________________________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 133 From: Thompson, Keith Date: 10/15/1998
Subject: How big is that grain bin by the siding, the one with the cone on i
Hi Gang,

Did you ever wonder how much grain the Walthers grain bin would hold in S
scale or how tall you should make that Rix grain bin? Butler has a neat web
page that gives all of the dimensions of all of its grain bins. You can find
the site at http://www.ctbinc.com/gsweb/specs.htm.

If you're really wondering what you can do with a grain bin, check out my
friend Dave Ferre's Grain Bin Living web site at:
http://www.seanet.com/~daf/grainbin.html. -- Keith Thompson (AKA
bubba@...)
Keith Thompson OSC Documentation
Specialist
AT&T Wireless Services, Carillon Point 5000, Kirkland, WA 98033 |
425-889-6087, fax 425-828-1720
Group: S-Trains Message: 134 From: PortLines@xxx.xxx Date: 10/15/1998
Subject: Re: Cleaning shells
In a message dated 10/15/98 7:06:12 AM, you wrote:

<<Tough spots, a little windex on a rag followed by fresh water (I

rinse with distilled water in a pump bottle, doesn't leave spots).

>>

CAUTION: Never use Windex on CHROME cars! It will strip the chrome before
you realize what's happening!
Doug
Group: S-Trains Message: 135 From: PortLines@xxx.xxx Date: 10/15/1998
Subject: Re: Polishing shells
In a message dated 10/15/98 7:06:12 AM, you wrote:

<<Rub the polish lightly with a soft cloth and wipe off. If any

of the hazy residue remains in nooks and crannies,use a stiff bristle

brush, or a toothbrush or finger nail brush to remove the residue. STAY

AWAY FROM NUMBERS AND LETTERING. This paint is thin and you might cut

through it!>>

After washing shells (I ALSO use Dawn....it is quite mild and does no harm),
Spray it lightly with ENDUST, and polish with a soft clean rag. It will look
liike new! Even steam engines will look like original that way! And Endust
won't harm lettering, etc.
Doug
Group: S-Trains Message: 136 From: Paul Yorke Date: 10/15/1998
Subject: S-Trains getting better
Hi Folks,
Had the pleasure of seeing and meeting several of the list members at a
near by show.
Thanks for the kind words about my site.
I just updated the Links page, even marked the new links.
http://www.gate.net/~yorke/links.htm

PS. Please don't use the 'reply button' when you submit to the list, it
just re-sends the same stuff back over the net. Start a 'new message'
and paste in any required stuff.

--
Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl.
American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers
http://www.gate.net/~yorke (alt e-mail paulyork@...)
Group: S-Trains Message: 137 From: David Dewey Date: 10/15/1998
Subject: Re: Chrome removal; Was cleaning shells
Oh yeah??? NEAT!! I have some w/ lousy chrome that I want to paint daylight,
but I've been fretting over how to get the chrome off. Any paticular type of
Windex?? (ammonia free, lemon scent, etc?)
S'incerely,
David Dewey
Watch the Railroad watch and repeat after me, "The future is in S, the
future is in S, the future is in S, the future...."
Group: S-Trains Message: 138 From: Dale Smith Date: 10/16/1998
Subject: Re: Cleaning shells
Thanks for the helpful advice quoted below. Now I know exactly what to use to get the last bits of
chrome off my Silver Bullet shell before I send it to you for rechroming!!

Dale Smith

PortLines@... wrote:

> CAUTION: Never use Windex on CHROME cars! It will strip the chrome before
> you realize what's happening!
> Doug
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 139 From: L Montgomery Date: 10/16/1998
Subject: Cleaning Wheels on Lighted Cars
Thanks to all who responded to my earlier questions re cleaning track and cleaning passenger cars. You've been a great help.

Here's yet another one.

How do you clean the wheels on lighted cars to get good electrical contact?

TIA

Monty
---
Fight Spam! Join CAUCE! == http://www.cauce.org/
Outlaw Junk Email! Support HR 1748.





-----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums
Group: S-Trains Message: 140 From: David Dewey Date: 10/16/1998
Subject: Re: Cleaning Wheels on Lighted Cars
Well, here's where I get a "little" fancy. I have polished car trim for
years, so I just go to my polisher (OK, it's a bench grinder mounted on a
post with the guard removed, no 'biggie') and a 'medium sewn' polishing
wheel with some green polish (Green polish is about 1500 grit and it's
intended use is for stainless final buffing--actually called coloring when
you get to that stage of polishing) and I buff the wheels clean. For
beginners, I'd recommend having the wheels off of the trucks, but this can
be done on the trucks after you get used to it. I've even been known to pull
the plastic wheels off and polish the axle centers on steam tender stuff.
BTW, when you get *really* used to it, you can polish plastic wheels
too--BUT this is a good way to make them shapes they weren't before!
What about the guy who doesn't have all this stuff handy?? Well, if you
have a bench grinder, most tool stores sell polishing stuff. So get a wheel
that is 'medium woven' (Wheels are tight, medium and loose--it's easier to
understand when you're looking at them, believe me, it'll be obvious!) and a
small stick of red rouge will do the job for you, and the red rouge will be
a *little* more forgiving--I use the green because I have lots of it, and
that's usually the wheel that's on the machine--I'm LAZYY!! You mount the
wheel on your grinder, and since you're only going to be doing AF wheels,
you can leave the guard on, and your work space won't get quite as messy!
Start the grinder (now polisher) and hold one end of the polishing stick
against the wheel. This will 'load' the wheel and you can now start
polishing. Be careful, as the wheel can grab edges and send your parts
flying. Also, the axle, etc will get warm as you polish. Go to the library
and read all about it, there are more tricks to tell than I can print here,
fortunately you are only trying to get a really clean surface on a small
part, not going for cosmetic stuff (BUT your set-up can make the aluminum
cars shinier than new!)
Oh, if the car wheel is really dirty, I do sometimes clean them first with a
fine wire wheel on the other side of the grinder/polisher.
Once in a while you need to clean the polishing wheel using a fairly sharp
tool, like a screwdriver or a nail by drawing it accross the wheel, then add
more polish.
It is also best to use a flat tool to clean off the grey 'gunk' that usually
builds up on car wheels before polishing, the 'gunk' really is hard to
polish off! (I just hold a small screwdriver agains the wheel tread and
turn the wheel against it, the grey stuff just peels off, same w/ the
plastic wheels)
S'incerely,
David Dewey
Watch the Railroad watch and repeat after me, "The future is in S, the
future is in S, the future is in S, the future...."
Group: S-Trains Message: 141 From: Thompson, Keith Date: 10/16/1998
Subject: Re: Chrome removal; Was cleaning shells
Hi David,

I've found that Lysol's Anti-bacterial Spray Kitchen Cleanser does the most
thorough job of removing "vacuum plated" chrome on models. Windex took too
long and left some flecks in the details. The other stuff took the chrome
off like a pealing snake. -- Keith Thompson (AKA bubba@...)

> ----------
> From: David Dewey[SMTP:djdewey@...]
> Sent: Thursday, October 15, 1998 5:48 PM
> To: PortLines@...; S-Trains@onelist.com
> Subject: [S-Trains] Re: Chrome removal; Was cleaning shells
>
> From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...>
>
> Oh yeah??? NEAT!! I have some w/ lousy chrome that I want to paint
> daylight,
> but I've been fretting over how to get the chrome off. Any paticular type
> of
> Windex?? (ammonia free, lemon scent, etc?)
> S'incerely,
> David Dewey
> Watch the Railroad watch and repeat after me, "The future is in S, the
> future is in S, the future is in S, the future...."
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
> service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
> http://www.onelist.com/advert.html for more information.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> For information contact Paul Yorke (yorke@...) or visit
> http://www.gate.net/~yorke/smail.htm
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 142 From: Keith B. Thompson - Sun Date: 10/16/1998
Subject: PRR steam paint scheme
Hi,

I need to paint a PRR steamer. I planning on
using Scalecoat Brunswick Green for the body/tender
but i was wondering if the trucks or underbody or drivers
or ashpan or ?? other parts where painted a different
color?

I seem to remember something like this but could not
remember the reference.

kbt
Group: S-Trains Message: 143 From: John Stephenson Date: 10/16/1998
Subject: Flyer E-Units
My E-Unit coils do not always drop the magnetic field right away , hence
the operation is not as predictable as I would like. If i place a piece
of paper between the coil and the metal plate it works fine on the bench
but.... ????

All suggestions appreciated.

John Stephenson
Group: S-Trains Message: 144 From: Steve Gruninger Date: 10/17/1998
Subject: Re: chrome removal
I've found 2 methods for removing chrome plating from plastic passenger
shells. First try 10% aqueous sodium hydroxide solution (lye, Drano,
oven cleaner). Immersion overnight or so, removes all of the chrome on
some shells which use a "primer" under the chrome. On shells which are
plated directly onto the plastic, sodium hydroxide won't work. In this
case I use masking tape to rip the plating off. Sometimes it comes off
in large sheets sticking to the tape. It doesn't get 100% of the
chrome, but it does a credible job. BTW, sodium hydroxide will burn
skin and attack metal, so use caution. It's also reuseable; just store
it in a white plastic gallon jug.

Steve Gruninger

>
> Oh yeah??? NEAT!! I have some w/ lousy chrome that I want to paint daylight,
> but I've been fretting over how to get the chrome off. Any paticular type of
> Windex?? (ammonia free, lemon scent, etc?)
> S'incerely,
> David Dewey
Group: S-Trains Message: 145 From: mhrreast@juno.com Date: 10/17/1998
Subject: cleaning track
Someone suggested using Scotch Brite pads
for removing rust.

Yes, the rust will come off, but so will some of the
plating on the rails. A long time ago someone
told me to use aluminum foil! It is harder than
the rust, and so removes rust, but is softer than
the plating, and so does NOT damage that.

Ted Larson mhrreast@...
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/consumer/racing/index.shtml

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Group: S-Trains Message: 146 From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton Date: 10/17/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 19
To clean the metal wheels on lighted cars, and also the copper spring (that
touches the axle) power pickup--I use Tarnex. Just swipe it on and they
shine immediately.

Good day.

Steve Pendleton

Don't Complain...TRAIN!

----------
> From: S-Trains@onelist.com
> To: S-Trains@onelist.com
> Subject: [S-Trains] Digest Number 19
> Date: Saturday, October 17, 1998 6:59 AM
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> For information contact Paul Yorke (yorke@...) or visit
http://www.gate.net/~yorke/smail.htm
>
>
> There are 7 messages in this issue.
>
> Topics in today's digest:
>
> 1. Cleaning Wheels on Lighted Cars
> From: "L Montgomery" <lmontgo@...>
> 2. Re: Cleaning Wheels on Lighted Cars
> From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...>
> 3. Re: Chrome removal; Was cleaning shells
> From: "Thompson, Keith" <keith.thompson@...>
> 4. PRR steam paint scheme
> From: thompson@... (Keith B. Thompson -
Sun)
> 5. Flyer E-Units
> From: jbs@... (John Stephenson)
> 6. Re: chrome removal
> From: seg@... (Steve Gruninger)
> 7. cleaning track
> From: mhrreast@...
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
___
>
____________________________________________________________________________
___
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 06:31:15 -0700
> From: "L Montgomery" <lmontgo@...>
> Subject: Cleaning Wheels on Lighted Cars
>
> Thanks to all who responded to my earlier questions re cleaning track and
cleaning passenger cars. You've been a great help.
>
> Here's yet another one.
>
> How do you clean the wheels on lighted cars to get good electrical
contact?
>
> TIA
>
> Monty
> ---
> Fight Spam! Join CAUCE! == http://www.cauce.org/
> Outlaw Junk Email! Support HR 1748.
>
>
>
>
>
> -----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==-----
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
___
>
____________________________________________________________________________
___
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 08:25:39 -0700
> From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...>
> Subject: Re: Cleaning Wheels on Lighted Cars
>
> Well, here's where I get a "little" fancy. I have polished car trim for
> years, so I just go to my polisher (OK, it's a bench grinder mounted on a
> post with the guard removed, no 'biggie') and a 'medium sewn' polishing
> wheel with some green polish (Green polish is about 1500 grit and it's
> intended use is for stainless final buffing--actually called coloring
when
> you get to that stage of polishing) and I buff the wheels clean. For
> beginners, I'd recommend having the wheels off of the trucks, but this
can
> be done on the trucks after you get used to it. I've even been known to
pull
> the plastic wheels off and polish the axle centers on steam tender stuff.
> BTW, when you get *really* used to it, you can polish plastic wheels
> too--BUT this is a good way to make them shapes they weren't before!
> What about the guy who doesn't have all this stuff handy?? Well, if
you
> have a bench grinder, most tool stores sell polishing stuff. So get a
wheel
> that is 'medium woven' (Wheels are tight, medium and loose--it's easier
to
> understand when you're looking at them, believe me, it'll be obvious!)
and a
> small stick of red rouge will do the job for you, and the red rouge will
be
> a *little* more forgiving--I use the green because I have lots of it, and
> that's usually the wheel that's on the machine--I'm LAZYY!! You mount the
> wheel on your grinder, and since you're only going to be doing AF wheels,
> you can leave the guard on, and your work space won't get quite as messy!
> Start the grinder (now polisher) and hold one end of the polishing stick
> against the wheel. This will 'load' the wheel and you can now start
> polishing. Be careful, as the wheel can grab edges and send your parts
> flying. Also, the axle, etc will get warm as you polish. Go to the
library
> and read all about it, there are more tricks to tell than I can print
here,
> fortunately you are only trying to get a really clean surface on a small
> part, not going for cosmetic stuff (BUT your set-up can make the aluminum
> cars shinier than new!)
> Oh, if the car wheel is really dirty, I do sometimes clean them first
with a
> fine wire wheel on the other side of the grinder/polisher.
> Once in a while you need to clean the polishing wheel using a fairly
sharp
> tool, like a screwdriver or a nail by drawing it accross the wheel, then
add
> more polish.
> It is also best to use a flat tool to clean off the grey 'gunk' that
usually
> builds up on car wheels before polishing, the 'gunk' really is hard to
> polish off! (I just hold a small screwdriver agains the wheel tread and
> turn the wheel against it, the grey stuff just peels off, same w/ the
> plastic wheels)
> S'incerely,
> David Dewey
> Watch the Railroad watch and repeat after me, "The future is in S, the
> future is in S, the future is in S, the future...."
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
___
>
____________________________________________________________________________
___
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 10:42:23 -0700
> From: "Thompson, Keith" <keith.thompson@...>
> Subject: Re: Chrome removal; Was cleaning shells
>
> Hi David,
>
> I've found that Lysol's Anti-bacterial Spray Kitchen Cleanser does the
most
> thorough job of removing "vacuum plated" chrome on models. Windex took
too
> long and left some flecks in the details. The other stuff took the chrome
> off like a pealing snake. -- Keith Thompson (AKA bubba@...)
>
> > ----------
> > From: David Dewey[SMTP:djdewey@...]
> > Sent: Thursday, October 15, 1998 5:48 PM
> > To: PortLines@...; S-Trains@onelist.com
> > Subject: [S-Trains] Re: Chrome removal; Was cleaning shells
> >
> > From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...>
> >
> > Oh yeah??? NEAT!! I have some w/ lousy chrome that I want to paint
> > daylight,
> > but I've been fretting over how to get the chrome off. Any paticular
type
> > of
> > Windex?? (ammonia free, lemon scent, etc?)
> > S'incerely,
> > David Dewey
> > Watch the Railroad watch and repeat after me, "The future is in S, the
> > future is in S, the future is in S, the future...."
> >
> >
> >
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
> > service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
> > http://www.onelist.com/advert.html for more information.
> >
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > For information contact Paul Yorke (yorke@...) or visit
> > http://www.gate.net/~yorke/smail.htm
> >
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
___
>
____________________________________________________________________________
___
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 14:06:28 -0400
> From: thompson@... (Keith B. Thompson - Sun)
> Subject: PRR steam paint scheme
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I need to paint a PRR steamer. I planning on
> using Scalecoat Brunswick Green for the body/tender
> but i was wondering if the trucks or underbody or drivers
> or ashpan or ?? other parts where painted a different
> color?
>
> I seem to remember something like this but could not
> remember the reference.
>
> kbt
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
___
>
____________________________________________________________________________
___
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 14:06:26 -0500
> From: jbs@... (John Stephenson)
> Subject: Flyer E-Units
>
> My E-Unit coils do not always drop the magnetic field right away , hence
> the operation is not as predictable as I would like. If i place a piece
> of paper between the coil and the metal plate it works fine on the bench
> but.... ????
>
> All suggestions appreciated.
>
> John Stephenson
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
___
>
____________________________________________________________________________
___
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 11:12:13 -0500
> From: seg@... (Steve Gruninger)
> Subject: Re: chrome removal
>
> I've found 2 methods for removing chrome plating from plastic passenger
> shells. First try 10% aqueous sodium hydroxide solution (lye, Drano,
> oven cleaner). Immersion overnight or so, removes all of the chrome on
> some shells which use a "primer" under the chrome. On shells which are
> plated directly onto the plastic, sodium hydroxide won't work. In this
> case I use masking tape to rip the plating off. Sometimes it comes off
> in large sheets sticking to the tape. It doesn't get 100% of the
> chrome, but it does a credible job. BTW, sodium hydroxide will burn
> skin and attack metal, so use caution. It's also reuseable; just store
> it in a white plastic gallon jug.
>
> Steve Gruninger
>
> >
> > Oh yeah??? NEAT!! I have some w/ lousy chrome that I want to paint
daylight,
> > but I've been fretting over how to get the chrome off. Any paticular
type of
> > Windex?? (ammonia free, lemon scent, etc?)
> > S'incerely,
> > David Dewey
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
___
>
____________________________________________________________________________
___
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 06:47:53 EDT
> From: mhrreast@...
> Subject: cleaning track
>
>
> Someone suggested using Scotch Brite pads
> for removing rust.
>
> Yes, the rust will come off, but so will some of the
> plating on the rails. A long time ago someone
> told me to use aluminum foil! It is harder than
> the rust, and so removes rust, but is softer than
> the plating, and so does NOT damage that.
>
> Ted Larson mhrreast@...
> http://www.kodak.com/US/en/consumer/racing/index.shtml
>
> ___________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
> or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
___
>
____________________________________________________________________________
___
Group: S-Trains Message: 147 From: Nick and Becky Colleran Date: 10/17/1998
Subject: Sticky reverse (a/ka "E" unit)
A half inch cube of foam placed between the chassis and the protruding piece
of the reverse unit mechanism at the back will make it work reliably. The
plate gets stuck and will not sequence the rachet gear. The foam provides a
"spring" return rather than depending upon gravity to overcome the residual
magnetism and accumulated grime.

I may still have some of the foam with self adhesive back. It's free for a
mailing label and stamp.

BTW - For the purists, Lionel made "E" units. American Flyer called them
reverse
units.

Hope this helps. --- Nick Colleran


>Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 14:06:26 -0500
> From: jbs@... (John Stephenson)
>Subject: Flyer E-Units
>
>My E-Unit coils do not always drop the magnetic field right away , hence
>the operation is not as predictable as I would like. If i place a piece
>of paper between the coil and the metal plate it works fine on the bench
>but.... ????
>
>All suggestions appreciated.
>
>John Stephenson
Group: S-Trains Message: 148 From: kelvin white Date: 10/17/1998
Subject: Southwind D&RGW 2-8-0s
Hi Folks

Has any body heard from Jettie Paggett recently - does anybody know how
the D&RGW 2-8-0 project is progressing - I know the SP 4-4-2 leapfogged
the 2-8-0 - I have a couple of 2-8-0s on order - it would be interesting
to know the timescale.
--
Kelvin White
Oxford England
Group: S-Trains Message: 149 From: kelvin white Date: 10/17/1998
Subject: American Models 4-6-2 driving wheel size
Hi Folks

As the American Models 4-6-2 is becoming available in undecorated black,
I'm becoming increasingly tempted by it.

Can somebody please advise the actual diam of the driving wheels (over
treads - not flanges) on a SCALE model they should be 79 inchs ie 1.23
inches But may be less to allow for oversized flanges.

Having looked at all of my books on the C&NW and SOO - I've concluded
that the SOO needed a bigger a Pacific than their H3 4-6-2s (75 inch
drivers - 33150 lbs tractive effort) - Thus my AM 4-6-2 will a SOO H4
#s 751-754 79inch drivers or whatever you advise and with 43900 lbs of
tractive effort. As such they would be more powerfull than the F-11, F-
12 Consolidations, but would rank behind the SOO Mikaldos, Mountains and
Northerns.

The next task will be to find an appropiate decal for the SOO $ logo for
the tender.
--
kelvin white
Group: S-Trains Message: 150 From: David Dewey Date: 10/17/1998
Subject: Re: Sticky reverse (a/ka "E" unit)
Nick's right, although they are 'universally' now known as 'e-units'.
Sticky units can also be caused by the brass 'finger that sticks out the
'drop shaped' hole on the side. The hole was punched out, and often this
leaves a sharp edge that starts wearing into the brass finger. When it gets
to the top, it gets slightly wedged and then 'hangs'. My solution is to
carefully, with a jewler's file, round that inner edge withoug changing the
size or shape of the hole. I have also been known to carefully file the
finger so it no longer has that little groove in it from the 'burr on the
hole edge. This must be done very carefully so it will still pick up the
tooth on the drum, and still slide back down too. Hard to describe by
typing!
Residual magnetism can also be a problem, if the coil has been subjected
to DC power, I've been told.
S'incerely,
David Dewey
Watch the Railroad watch and repeat after me, "The future is in S, the
future is in S, the future is in S, the future...."
Group: S-Trains Message: 151 From: Roger Hinds Date: 10/18/1998
Subject: E-units & Cleaner
Hello Guy"S" ;

In regards to E-unit hangup: I use graphite powder to lubricate the
moving parts. It works quite well. You can use a small modelers paint
brush to work it in. It is messy if you are not carefull. It will not
effect the electrical contact of the fingers.

Roger

Now ----- On to another subject.

A number of you have been discussing cleaners. Boy oh boy, do I have a
product for you. I sell a general cleaner that will alow you to clean
everything in Your house, garage and your train room.
Since I can't demonstrate it by E-mail ("Duh") I will tell you a few
things it does.
First: How I used it on painted surfaces. I had a truck with a dull
paint finish. I sprayed the cleaner on wiped it off. Much to my surprise
it brought out the original gloss in the paint. Now a rinse and a quick
wax to preserve the gloss. Beautiful!
In the house. I used it to clean dirty finger off of white doorway
frames. It worked great with no scrubbing.
So it would be a good product to clean your trains. How it effdects
chrome ? Well it did not hurt the chrome on my car . How about the
train chrome. I haven't tried it yet. However if you wipe it on and wipe
off with a cloth, wet with water I don't forsee a problem.
I had brown pee stains on the rug in my train room. In another spot
creosote stain from a stove pipe. These stains were there for years.
Store bought products would not remove them.
Then I discovered this product. It removed these old stains. Whew! I
thought I was going have my rug replaced.
It is a wall to wall glued down rug.
I have glass cabinets in my train room. I use this product to clean the
glass. It does it without leaving a oily film like windex does. I use it
on my car windows of course.
I use it for most everything with great results.

"OOH OOH" !!! I just remembered. This cleaner is a great bug remover
for your car. Spray it on and the bugs seem to melt off. Let it set a
bit to work and wipe off the bugs.
I use a dab full strength for tough spots.

Now the painfull part. First however I would like to mention. The
quanity when propery mixed (It comes in a concentrated form) with water
is equivelant to 20 quarts of your other liquid cleaner.
This cleaner costs 29.95 for 32 0zs. Before you faint from the price.
Read the third sentance of this paragraph again.
This will fill approx. a 5 gallon container, After properly mixed with
water.

This cleaner is not sold in stores.

Any way to order, send 29.95 plus 5.00 for shipping. $34.95

To:

Roger Hinds
6 Trudeau Rd.
Bethlehem NH

03574
Group: S-Trains Message: 152 From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx Date: 10/18/1998
Subject: Reverse Units
Sticky reverse (a/ka "E" unit)

If residual magnetism is the cause,
then one ought to be able to use a tape recorder
head demagnetizer to demag the unit.
I will try this when I find my demagnetizer.
If somebody beats me to it, please report.

Ted Larson mhrreast@...
http://members.aol.com/FLCCC/55larson.htm

___________________________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 153 From: Wayne Broadhead Date: 10/18/1998
Subject: American Flyer PA sets
Hellow everyone!

I love this time of year, fall leaves, cool nights, football, and best of
all AMERICAN FLYER!!!!! I have been collecting for the last 8 to 10
years, and with every fall (when we get busy at work, summer and fall is
our overtime season) I would save and put away to buy AMERICAN FLYER at our
largest train show which is in November.

Of course, S Guagian had wetted my appetite by its beautiful pictures of
the products to come out for that year (again, most products were released
in the fall, another reason for my love of this season). I remember
stopping buy the hobby store in the spring of 1991, bought an issue of S
guagian, I then drove to my eye appointment. Being early, I sat in the car
and started doing my favorite thing, THUMBING THRU THE MAGAZINE FOR
PICTURES OF AMERICAN FLYER.

To my INCREDIBLE SURPISE was a two page spread picture of the MISSOURI
PACIFIC PA set that Flyer had made years ago. Lionel was going to
reintroduce it, along with guess what, (guess now, I can't hear you)
thats, better, you're right, THE EP5 NEW HAVE ELECTRIC. I sat in the car
stunned by the beauty of the products they would release that year (in the
fall).

I remember having to stay many long days and saturdays at work, working my
required overtime. But for some reason, when I knew I was saving up to buy
THAT MO PAC set, and the New Haven EP5 (and all the other offerings that
year) the hours of work really felt alot easier.

Those were great memories, and they have continued every year since!!
Isn't this a great hobby!! Now fall is here again, the colors have
changed, there is a chill in the air, and our November Train Show is
approaching.

Hmmm, what shall I buy this year? maybe that Southern Pacific Daylight set
that I never seemed to have quite enough money for.....love that AMERICAN
FLYER.

Enjoy!!! Wayne
Group: S-Trains Message: 154 From: AFSTrains@xxx.xxx Date: 10/18/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 17
In a message dated 10/15/98 7:06:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time, S-
Trains@onelist.com writes:

<< If any of you are planning to attend the Fall S-fest, please say hello if
you see me. My layout
(the Yellow Brick Railraod) will be part of the layout tours on Sunday. -Roy
Roy E. Plotnick >>

Roy, We'll be at S-Fest next month and look forward to visiting with you.
John and Robin Vanacore
Group: S-Trains Message: 155 From: Dennis Back Date: 10/18/1998
Subject: Reverse Units/ ANOTHER question
Is there any quick fix for reverse units of the Casey Jones and
Frontier type 2 position units? Mine is erratic.

Thanks,
Dennis Back
Miami, Fl.
Group: S-Trains Message: 156 From: Alex Binkley Date: 10/18/1998
Subject: Interesting sights
At this past weekend's Railfair train show in Ottawa, there were a couple of
interesting items for S scalers. First was a British S scale set of modules. Beautiful
work. Done with code 75 rail. Gorgeous scenery.
Also I was one of the folks working on the annual raffle layout -- designed to raise
funds for the local children's hospital and serve as a spot were people can ask
questions about building a layout. We were working with the new Scenic Woodlands
materials including the styrofoam risers and inclines which work for 2 per cent and 4
per cent grades. Anyway the risers and inclines are 2.5 inches wide plenty of room for
S scale track and roadbed even though Woodland Scenics only advertises it for N and HO.
I face building a 2 per cent grade on my layout and it looks like the way to go as far
as I'm concerned. There's also a foam cutter and other useful tools. worth checking
out.
cheers
--
Alex Binkley
Hammond, Ont., Canada
<a href="mailto:alex.binkley@..." </a>
Group: S-Trains Message: 157 From: Dale Smith Date: 10/18/1998
Subject: Re: cleaning track
I assume you are talking about original Flyer track. What exactly are the rails plated with? I
thought they were simply steel rails. I have probably ruined a lot of track with abrasives that may
have taken this plating off. I have a lot of my original Flyer track and I can't even remember what I
used on it as a kid.

Dale Smith

mhrreast@... wrote:

> Someone suggested using Scotch Brite pads
> for removing rust.
>
> Yes, the rust will come off, but so will some of the
> plating on the rails. A long time ago someone
> told me to use aluminum foil! It is harder than
> the rust, and so removes rust, but is softer than
> the plating, and so does NOT damage that.
Group: S-Trains Message: 158 From: Ken Zieska Date: 10/18/1998
Subject: CD Models
I had an opportunity to visit CD Models last week and I was
impressed with what I saw. I know many in the S community are wary of
new manufacturers as most of us have sent money for new products only to
find that the good intentions of a basement business person are not
matched by production capabilities. CD Models has an established line
of models in the Farm toy marketplace that they are interested in
expanding. The production volumes they deal with lend themselves to the
spin casting technique of production and their existing product
demonstrate that they are very effective at producing items in this
medium. This is a full time small business (which means more than 40
hours per week, crazy hours and sometimes the boss weilds a broom)
established and capable of contributing to the 1/64 scale marketplace.
Here is the opportunity. CD has an established line of farm
equipment and they are starting doing construction equipment. They are
licenced by several large equipment makers so what they do must be
accurate. Being new, they want to know what we need. The PPSSW will
gather catalogs of what is currently available in detail parts to avoid
unnecessary duplication and of course we will make suggestions. Items
that cross over to the farm toy marketplace are really great ideas but
anything could be considered. In our conversations, I suggested
livestock and people as well as building details for grain elevators (OK
so the Minnesota Heartland needs were on my mind). If you have ideas,
use the E-mail address,
Try one of their kits, I now have a 1/64" snowmoblile for the back
of my Ford pickup truck and the snowmobile hood goes up so I can have
one of my scale figures trying to work on the engine. Seems to me that
hood up and working on the engine was the way you saw most early
snowmobiles. This is great detail piece and will compliment the detail
many of us want for our layouts. I also have a big four wheel drive
tractor that will produce a load to compliment my SHS flatcar. I bought
several different wheel and tire combinations that will make good
clutter around the feed store in Marilyn or on the back of a stake
truck.
CD Models will be at the 1999 NASG convention in St. Paul.
Ken
Group: S-Trains Message: 159 From: NYC17819@xxx.xxx Date: 10/18/1998
Subject: Cleaning Northerns
GreetingS all

I recently acquired a K335 4-8-4 that needs to have the side frames of the
trailing truck and the side frames of the tender trucks cleaned. What's the
best way to make these "look like new ?"

Thanks in advance,
ChriS Harding
Group: S-Trains Message: 160 From: David Dewey Date: 10/18/1998
Subject: Re: cleaning track
AF track was originally Zinc plated, although some is Cadmium. The 'black'
rail track was 'blued' with a black finish. Both finishes wear off on the
tops of the rails! Ties were blued with a Brown finish (there are names for
both the black and the brown, but it's late and I can't think of them!).
When I recondition rusty track, I often seal it with a coat of clear
acrylic, which has to be cleaned off the top of the rails for electrical
contact. The clear keeps the rest of the track from rusting.
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 161 From: BenTrous@aol.com Date: 10/19/1998
Subject: Cleaning Wheels & Replies
I don't have anything approaching a bench grinder with which to clean
wheels...

For you low tech guys I've found using paint thinner cleans the built-up grime
off pick-up wheels and a little metal polish (I use Brasso) will brighten the
wheels. I use paper towel to do both of these jobs.

Interestingly, though, since I have started using electric hair or beard razor
lubricating oil to clean the track, dirty pick-up wheels have not been a
problem. I haven't had to clean any wheels or track since my first
application of the oil to the rails.

Ben Trousdale

P.S. I also have a favor to ask that applies to only some. When responding
to previous messages on the list please don't copy and post the entire
mailing, but only those portions that are relevant to the subject. Some mail
programs start reply messages by copying the entire text including headers and
footers of the message to which you are replying. Much of this can be easily
edited as easily as the body of your actual message by deleting those portions
that are not germane to your subject. Having to scroll through huge amounts
of irrelevant repeated text slows down everything and is an annoyance. Thank-
you.
Group: S-Trains Message: 162 From: TPLCoMinn@xxx.xxx Date: 10/19/1998
Subject: Pacific Driver Sizes for Kelvin
Kelvin,
Your questions regarding 4-6-2 driver diameters led me to a couple of
reference books I have. Per the Kalmbach Loco Cyclopedia:

I. C. 1000 Series 75"
G. N. H4 73"
Harriman Light 77"
PRR K4s 80"
USRA Light 73"
USRA Heavy 79"
C. N. J4e 69"
ATSF 3400 Series 79"
C&NW E2 75"
Southern Ps4 72"
B&O P7 80"
Reading G2sa 80"
B&M P4 80"

According to Leslie Suprey's "Steam Trains of the SOO":
Class H 62"
Class H-1 & H-2 69"
Class H-3 75"
Class H-20 69"
Class H-21 thru H-23 75"
I like the idea of fitting the Amer Models into the SOO system as an H-4. I
think I would still remove the domes and a few other details and substitute
appropriate appliances to make it fit the SOO Line family image.

Good Luck,
Tom Lennon
Group: S-Trains Message: 163 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 10/19/1998
Subject: Cleaning wheels
Paint thinner on a Q-tip. Turn the unit over (preferably in a cradle).
With wheels left on, rest the Qtip on the side carriage toward the center,
press out against the wheel getting cleaned, use your thumb and index
finger to turn the wheel on the other end of the axle (acts like a lathe).
Repeat with the dry end of the Qtip to shine. If you remove the wheels,
then also remove half the cotton of a Q-tip, wet with paint thinner, and
clean out the bearings in the side carriages too. Reassemble, oil, and run
'em.
Group: S-Trains Message: 164 From: John Foley Date: 10/19/1998
Subject: York PA.
Hi Folks

I was down at York Pa. set up with the NASG table in the New
Jersay Rails Train Show Valencia Ballroom. This was a three day show from
10/12-14/98
We did well with over $400. in sales. On Friday the 16th I was at the TCA
show
at the fairgrounds. As always a great time. Got to see many friends again.
lots
of AF goodies for sale both old and new. Of course S-Helper, Downs Tanks,
and Ballston Loco Works. Downs announced a new tank car the TankTrain,
Ballston had
their Steam engine shells for AF chassis's. So if you have a AF chassis you
can
do A 4-4-2 camelback, 2-6-4 C.N.J Blue Comet, 4-4-2 Milwaukee Hiawatha, 4-4-2
SP Daylight and a 4-6-4 DREYFUSS HUDSON. These kits come unpainted, painted or
ready to run. So write to Ballston Loco Works P.O. Box 50 Clifton Park NY
12065
[518]383-0963 and ask for a catalog. You can contact downs at 314 Lehigh ave,
Gloucester City, NJ 08030-1217 Phone 609-742-0790 Fax 609-742-1864.
I am sure I forgot to mention someone if I did please let
me know. John Foley
Group: S-Trains Message: 165 From: kelvin white Date: 10/19/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 21
In message <908795183.26193@onelist.com>, S-Trains@onelist.com writes
>Message: 6
> Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 18:29:16 -0700
> From: Alex Binkley <alex.binkley@...>
>Subject: Interesting sights
>
>At this past weekend's Railfair train show in Ottawa, there were a
couple of
>interesting items for S scalers. First was a British S scale set of
modules.>Beautiful >work. Done with code 75 rail. Gorgeous scenery.

I presume the layout was Mike Watts - Wandle Valley Railway - and of
course it was excellant work - he is a member of the 'British' S Scale
Model Railway Society :-)
--
Kelvin White
Group: S-Trains Message: 166 From: kelvin white Date: 10/19/1998
Subject: Alien attack on American Models
I have grave news for everyone - Ron B has been abducted by Aliens. If
you don't believe me - look on his WWW site, Southern Railway 4 bay
ribbed hopper - in the background is the approaching flying saucer.

Come back Ron......we need you :-)
--
Kelvin White
Oxford England
Group: S-Trains Message: 167 From: Thompson, Keith Date: 10/19/1998
Subject: Re: Alien attack on American Models
"Gort! Deklato prosko!!"

(http://www.yourlink.net/jgerard/gort/index.html#sounds)

> ----------
> From: kelvin white[SMTP:kelvin@...]
> Sent: Monday, October 19, 1998 11:43 AM
> To: S-Trains@onelist.com; info@...
> Subject: [S-Trains] Alien attack on American Models
>
> From: kelvin white <kelvin@...>
>
> I have grave news for everyone - Ron B has been abducted by Aliens. If
> you don't believe me - look on his WWW site, Southern Railway 4 bay
> ribbed hopper - in the background is the approaching flying saucer.
>
> Come back Ron......we need you :-)
> --
> Kelvin White
> Oxford England
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> For information contact Paul Yorke (yorke@...) or visit
> http://www.gate.net/~yorke/smail.htm
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 168 From: PortLines@xxx.xxx Date: 10/19/1998
Subject: Re: 2-pos. e-units
In a message dated 10/19/98 7:08:20 AM, you wrote:

<<Is there any quick fix for reverse units of the Casey Jones and

Frontier type 2 position units? Mine is erratic.

>>
A quick shot of tuner cleaner inside it. Oil attracts dust, and then it hangs
up.
If that doesn't work, you'll have to take it apart and clean it out.
Fingers in those units RARELY wear out.
Doug
Group: S-Trains Message: 169 From: kelvin white Date: 10/19/1998
Subject: Re: Alien attack on American Models
In message <9B4CA8A24140D211BA1E0008C728FA770FA826@HQ-MSG07>, "Thompson,
Keith" <keith.thompson@...> writes
>"Gort! Deklato prosko!!"
>
> (http://www.yourlink.net/jgerard/gort/index.html#sounds)
>
I bet you a trekkie !!! ;-)
--
Kelvin White
Group: S-Trains Message: 170 From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx Date: 10/19/1998
Subject: FLASH!
Racing Champs vehicles
are HALF PRICE at Toys R US!

Ted Larson mhrreast@...
http://members.aol.com/FLCCC/55larson.htm

________________________________________________________________
Get secure free e-mail that you don't need Web access to use
from Juno, the world's second largest online service.
Download your free software at http://www.juno.com/getit.b.html.
Group: S-Trains Message: 171 From: Vic Bereskin Date: 10/19/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 21
It's not a quick fix, but I would strongly recommend ripping it out,
throwing it away and replacing it with one of QSI's electronic units. They
aren't an exact fit (being made to replace Lionel E-units) but they work
ever so much better than then Flyer two position unit ever did.


Vic Bereskin


> Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 17:27:26 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Dennis Back <backden@...>
>Subject: Reverse Units/ ANOTHER question
>
>Is there any quick fix for reverse units of the Casey Jones and
>Frontier type 2 position units? Mine is erratic.
>
>Thanks,
>Dennis Back
>Miami, Fl.
>___________________________________________________________________________
____
Group: S-Trains Message: 172 From: Wayne Broadhead Date: 10/20/1998
Subject: American Flyer tips
Hello everyone from Fred Alles:

Just a note to say thanks to those who are giving the repair hints for
the original American Flyer equipment. I have put several to immediate
use and have found them very helpful in restoring or repairing the
original equipment. I'm glad there are some real "experts" that have
plowed the way before me. I am reliving my youth in finding the
original flyer that I couldn't afford as a kid. The American Flyer club
here in Utah (Golden Spike American Flyer Club) is small but a great
bunch of guys that have a great time at shows running the original
trains and accessories to the amazement of kids and adults that remember
what fun it was in the "good ole days". Even have my son very
interested in doing the same with me. The hints about the repair and
maintenance are appreciated. Keep up the good tips!

Fred Alles in Utah
Group: S-Trains Message: 173 From: RxMan46321@xxx.xxx Date: 10/20/1998
Subject: loose motor mount
Have a 479 with a loose motor. The yoke is not tight to the motor. How can
this be remedied?

The motor mounting is much different than on the 360

John Griffin
Group: S-Trains Message: 174 From: Roger Hinds Date: 10/20/1998
Subject: E-Unit
Ack!!!
I do not believe the advice some people give. Never throw away a part
that goes on your AF trains. You will reduce its resale value greatly.
If you must remove the E-unit, put a tag on it with the loco number.

AF e-units can be very aggravating. However when working properly they
are a source of amazement to your visitors. Not to mention they don't
pose a problem when working correctly.

I know, I know. There are those of you that would like to run over
every E-unit in existance with a steam roller.

I run my trains all day every day for the public. I use AF e-units.

Roger
Group: S-Trains Message: 175 From: John Foley Date: 10/20/1998
Subject: Train Shows
Hi Folks
Well the next train shows for the NASG banner and me is in at the
old Lackawanna station hotel downtown Scranton PA. Sunday, Oct. 25, The show
is a short wark from Steamtown National Park. A train show and Steamtown WOW!!
Hrs 9-2. On Oct. 31 & Nov. 1st the South Jersay S gaugers have invited the
NASG to use a table at the Greenberg train show in the South Jersay Expo
Center
2323 Rt. 73 Pennsauken, NJ. Hrs. Sat. 11-5; Sun 11-4
Who's going to the S fest? I am with Alan Evans and Jeff Madden
we will man the NASG table and have lots of S Fun. Nov. 5-8 is the date.
Since the dealer room is taken down on Sat the 7th. I asked the Great American
Train Show folks for a table at their Great Midwest Train Show in Wheaton Ill.
So if your still aroud stop in.
Your Friend
John Foley
NASG Eastern VP
Group: S-Trains Message: 176 From: Alex Binkley Date: 10/20/1998
Subject: British S
Kelvin had the right name for the British S scale layout at the Ottawa
Railfare show. It was very popular and well done.
Group: S-Trains Message: 177 From: David Dewey Date: 10/20/1998
Subject: Re: loose motor mount
I think this is the later style mount where the yoke and field strap are one
piece. Yoke is screwed to sides of motor chassis, and it has a pin at the
top which goes through the locomotive chassis, using fiber spacer washers
and an 'e' clip. The armature is held in place by two set screws on either
side. This part is a bit tricky, as you have to center the field so it
doesn't touch the armature. Trial by error is the only way I know (Yes, I
wrote the 'by' the way *I* wanted it to read!!<G>) The 360, I think, has a
seperate yoke that pivots at the motor chassis mount. All mine are buried
under boxes right now, can't go look at them!
S'incerely,
David Dewey
Watch the Railroad watch and repeat after me, "The future is in S, the
future is in S, the future is in S, the future...."
Group: S-Trains Message: 178 From: Curtis Johnson Date: 10/20/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 22
_______________________________________________________________________________
in ref:
Subject: Alien attack on American Models

I have grave news for everyone - Ron B has been abducted by Aliens. If
you don't believe me - look on his WWW site, Southern Railway 4 bay
ribbed hopper - in the background is the approaching flying saucer.

>>>>> This is Pleidian Beamship that Billy Meier(Swiss farmer)
has hundreds of photos, HEY even aliens know where to find
great S-guage equipment !! Never fear but fear everything!
<<<<< ( this is 1979 model spacecraft not the newer model)
MF&KBY -CurtJ- 'Men are from Mars, Women-Venus; where are
Flyers from? --------
=====================================
Group: S-Trains Message: 179 From: L Montgomery Date: 10/21/1998
Subject: Lighted Caboose Buzzes Constantly
Hi again,

I'm gradually getting a pile of AF stuff back into working condition. Here's the latest challenge. I have a lighted caboose with a flagman that is supposed to move back and forth but based on a transformer signal (from the whistle control I think). I can hear the electromagnet click when I operate the whistle control but the caboose buzzes constantly with just track power active. Any advice would be appreciated.

Monty
---
Fight Spam! Join CAUCE! == http://www.cauce.org/
Outlaw Junk Email! Support HR 1748.



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Group: S-Trains Message: 180 From: David Dewey Date: 10/21/1998
Subject: Re: Lighted Caboose Buzzes Constantly
Hi,
That's what those 'action' cabooses do. I usually carefully take mine
apart (anyone got an 'easy' way to do that??) and put a diode or full
rectifier in the circuit to the coil. No more AC buzz! and it slows down the
action a bit. Be careful that the unit you add is large enough that it
doesn't overheat, and place it so it won't melt something (like the caboose
body)!
S'
David
Group: S-Trains Message: 181 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 10/21/1998
Subject: E-Units
I agree with Roger. I only run Gilbert AF with E-Units. If one goes bad,
I lock it in forward until I can repair it. Never throw Gilbert stuff
away. It may be valuable someday. I would like to see more low cost "S"
produced today for kids who will be operators like us in the future.

Staying on North Penn S Gauge track, Glenn
Group: S-Trains Message: 182 From: Cdmodels@aol.com Date: 10/21/1998
Subject: Re: S-Gauge Trucks
Hey I have new pictures post on Paul Yorkes website Check them out it's a
picture of 5 different grain trucks that we made here at C&D Models. We sell
the kit to make the grain trucks and they will except any of the 1/64th scale
semi cabs being made now. The kit includes a high detail frame, hoist box
hand crank mudflaps hyd. & air tanks, 1/4 fenders. And a few more parts for
detailing the cab once you assemble it. Check them out and thanks again Paul
for posting these pictures for me.

Greg
C&D Models Inc.

PS: Thanks Ken Z for all the kind words and like Ken mentioned in his e-mail.
If there is something you would like to see done please let use know. I.E.
accessories shovels, barrels, what ever it may be.
Group: S-Trains Message: 183 From: Thompson, Keith Date: 10/21/1998
Subject: Re: S-Gauge Trucks
Can you post the link to the actual page? I couldn't find the photos on
Paul's site. -- Keith Thompson

> ----------
> From: Cdmodels@...[SMTP:Cdmodels@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 1998 1:10 PM
> To: s-trains@onelist.com
> Subject: [S-Trains] Re: S-Gauge Trucks
>
> From: Cdmodels@...
>
> Hey I have new pictures post on Paul Yorkes website Check them out it's a
> picture of 5 different grain trucks that we made here at C&D Models. We
> sell
> the kit to make the grain trucks and they will except any of the 1/64th
> scale
> semi cabs being made now. The kit includes a high detail frame, hoist box
> hand crank mudflaps hyd. & air tanks, 1/4 fenders. And a few more parts
> for
> detailing the cab once you assemble it. Check them out and thanks again
> Paul
> for posting these pictures for me.
>
> Greg
> C&D Models Inc.
>
> PS: Thanks Ken Z for all the kind words and like Ken mentioned in his
> e-mail.
> If there is something you would like to see done please let use know. I.E.
> accessories shovels, barrels, what ever it may be.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> For information contact Paul Yorke (yorke@...) or visit
> http://www.gate.net/~yorke/smail.htm
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 184 From: Paul Yorke Date: 10/21/1998
Subject: Grain Trucks
Grain Truck Photo is at http://www.gate.net/~yorke/graintrk.jpg

--
Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl.
American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers
http://www.gate.net/~yorke (alt e-mail paulyork@...)
Group: S-Trains Message: 185 From: PortLines@aol.com Date: 10/21/1998
Subject: Re: -Repair tips
We're adding detailed AF repair "clinics" to our website. So far, we have
three online. We're open to suggestions for more.......just let us know! We
hope they are helpful.......(Not to mention that we obviously have the parts
needed for you to carry them out, too!!!!!)
Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)
Port Lines Hobby Supply
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Port Lines @ aol.com http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 186 From: Richard McClary Date: 10/21/1998
Subject: Layout "maintenance"
Folks-

How do you (especially those with layouts) deal with:
1. Dust?
2. Cats?
3. Cat hair and dander?

TIA!
--
Richard McClary
Group: S-Trains Message: 187 From: Dennis Back Date: 10/21/1998
Subject: Re: Layout
> How do you (especially those with layouts) deal with:
> 1. Dust?
My wife never dusts...I'm used to it.

> 2. Cats?
Buy lots of parts from Doug at Portlines. My cat sent my 314AW
falling four feet to the floor!

>3. Cat hair and dander?
I don't know about former, but for the latter...try Head & Shoulders.

Sorry...I couldn't resist this!

Dennis Back
Miami, Fl.
> _________________________________________________________
> DO YOU YAHOO!?
> Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 188 From: Wayne Broadhead Date: 10/21/1998
Subject: bubbling towers
Does anyone have a red oil derrick and a checkerboard water tower for sale?
Group: S-Trains Message: 189 From: David Dewey Date: 10/21/1998
Subject: Re: Layout "maintenance"
Hmm, Well, I have a copy of "101 Uses for a Dead Cat." That should take care
of 2 & 3!!! <BG>
Actually, my problem is the Birds! But if I had a permanent layout, it
would be in another room, not under the tree in the living room, so that
wouldn't be a problem, as the birds are only in the Living room area.
S'
David
Group: S-Trains Message: 190 From: Mark Preman Date: 10/22/1998
Subject: Oil Derrick and Checkerboard Water tower For Sale
Responding to Wayne Broadhead-I have one of each.
Please checkout my list of American Flyer For Sale at:
http://members.tripod.com/~amerflyer
Group: S-Trains Message: 191 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 10/22/1998
Subject: 479 motor loose
As mentioned earlier - -two types - - one with yoke and field brace
separate, another with them together as one piece. In either case I've
found you should start with being sure you have the right screws and that
they can be securely tightened into the chassis. The two-piece type use a
shoulder screw. Otherwise, work with the centering screws carefully until
the field is centered and snug. On one unit I found a casting nub in one
of the bearing basins was preventing axial centering of the armature- -
lightly file or grind to remove.

PS If you have problems related to axle bearing wear (and that can cause a
lot irritating symptoms/problems), I've found the best thing to do is
replace the chassis with a late model version (complete with wheels, axles,
gears,and bushings). That is if you're first an operator. Collectors
might take issue with this because the wheel flanges are taller than the
old style and they aren't brass/bronze, but it's like getting a new engine
when you're done.
Group: S-Trains Message: 192 From: Mellon, Jay E. Date: 10/22/1998
Subject: Re: Layout "maintenance"
See comments below.
J. Mellon
CCSG, New Orleans, LA

> ----------
> From: Richard McClary[SMTP:ardie@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 1998 8:15PM
> To: S-trains
> Subject: [S-Trains] Layout "maintenance"
>
> From: Richard McClary <ardie@...>
>
> Folks-
>
> How do you (especially those with layouts) deal with:
> 1. Dust?Vacuum cleaner. There are special attachments available (MicroMark).
> 2. Cats? If possible, keep cats away from the layout. (I know that may be difficult to accomplish, but prevention is the best solution.)
> 3. Cat hair and dander? Cat hair + model motors (especially open frame) = DISASTER ! Check motors on a regular basis and clean out hair/gunk as required. Good luck.
>
> TIA!
> --
> Richard McClary
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
> service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
> http://www.onelist.com/advert.html for more information.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> For information contact Paul Yorke (yorke@...) or visit http://www.gate.net/~yorke/smail.htm
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 193 From: Roger Hinds Date: 10/22/1998
Subject: Re: Layout "maintenance"
Richard McClary wrote:
>
> From: Richard McClary <ardie@...>
>
> Folks-
>
> How do you (especially those with layouts) deal with:
> 1. Dust?
> 2. Cats?
> 3. Cat hair and dander?
>
> TIA!
> --
How to deal with the cat problem:
In my case, I would not have a cat in the house. In your case; You
have two options.
First (and not likely) get rid of the cat. Second; keep the cat out of
the train room.
(for those that do not know. Cats run the house). ;o)

About the dust. Have no rugs in the train room. If you do, keep it
vacumed. If the layout is in the bedroom you will raise a lot of dust
every time blankets are moved in the bed.
Another point; Smoking will put a residue on yopur rails.
The track oil I sell will stop track problems, as far as dust goes.
Won't do much for hair.

I will send Richard info. on that.

Roger
Group: S-Trains Message: 194 From: Roger Hinds Date: 10/22/1998
Subject: Re: Layout "maintenance"
David Dewey wrote:
>
David has a tree in his living room? Last years christmas tree? Have all
the needles fallen off David? Or perhaps he got his tree early for
this year.

I also have a bird. How to solve the feather shedding. Pluck the bird?
How about making little coats for the crittrs to stop the shedding?
:o)

David; Try the sample I sent you yet?

Roger
Group: S-Trains Message: 195 From: RxMan46321@xxx.xxx Date: 10/22/1998
Subject: Re: Cats
A gunney sack and near-by creek have always worked for me

John Griffin
Group: S-Trains Message: 196 From: thompson@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxx Date: 10/22/1998
Subject: Alan Gibson products
Hi,

Does anyone carry products from Alan Gibson (UK)
or have dealt with him at all (like best way to
contact)? I have a couple pages from his catalogue
that describe some locomotive drivers that I'm
interested in.

kbt
Group: S-Trains Message: 197 From: Keith Thompson Date: 10/22/1998
Subject: Need Truck Wheels?
Hi All,

I just got the latest Stratton's e-mail list and saw an item that will come in handy for those of us looking for more realistic wheels for our S scale "toy" trucks. ERTL is offering its truck wheels seperately and Stratton's carries them in a set as follows:

ERTL - TF-1 - 1/64 Price = $2.00
Tractor - Front Axle(1) Assembly For Semi-truck (tires/rims/axle)
--------------------
ERTL - TFR-3 - 1/64 Price = $6.00
Tractor - Front(1) Rear(2) Axle Assembly For Semi-truck (tires/rims/axles)
--------------------
ERTL - TR-2 - 1/64 Price = $5.00
Trailer - Axle(2) Assembly For Semi-truck (tires/rims/axles)

I assume these are the one-piece modern wheels used on trucks since the mid-1960s and not the older "knock-down" wheels with bolts next to the rims. To find out more about these and other ertl parts as well as ordering from Stratton's go to: http://www.dstratton.com/newtoys.html. -- Keith Thompson
Group: S-Trains Message: 198 From: RBubeck327@aol.com Date: 10/22/1998
Subject: Re: Layout "maintenance"
1. A filtered heat and cooling system does wonders for limiting dust. Once in
a while the use of dusting brush and a careful light vacuuming is needed.
2. I would not let any cat anywhere near my trains.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 199 From: Chuck Smith Date: 10/22/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 24
S-Trains@onelist.com wrote:

> 1. Lighted Caboose Buzzes Constantly
> From: "L Montgomery" <lmontgo@...>

> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 08:57:23 -0700
> From: "L Montgomery" <lmontgo@...>
> Subject: Lighted Caboose Buzzes Constantly
>
> Hi again,
>
> I'm gradually getting a pile of AF stuff back into working condition. Here's the latest challenge. I have a lighted caboose with a flagman that is supposed to move back and forth but based on a transformer signal (from the whistle control I think). I can hear the electromagnet click when I operate the whistle control but the caboose buzzes constantly with just track power active. Any advice would be appreciated.
>
> Monty
You have an automated brakenman caboose. The breakman should stay on
the platform when the train runs, held by the solenoid which you hear
buzzing. When the train stops, (power removed) the brakeman leans out
to check the train ahead. That's all it does. There's no control for
this action beyond turning the train on and off.

--
"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers and the
S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith
Group: S-Trains Message: 200 From: Allen Evans Date: 10/22/1998
Subject: What an E-Unit Is
For those who may not be aware of the term "E-Unit", this as a basic
description:

E-Units are miniature circuit boards that are primarily found in most AC
powered model railroad tracks and some DC powered tracks, but primarily in
the "O" and "S" scale families.

The E-Unit circuit board can be about 1" by 2.1" by 1" in height, and is
designed for universal
use. An E-Unit provides sequential direction control for wound field series
type motors and for the older (very old) locomotives with permanent magnet
DC motors. It has a continuous duty capacity of four (4) amperes of current
flow, sufficient for a two motored locomotive.

While most operators will use AC track power, many "E" units also sequence
with DC track power. The initial "power on" state is user selectable so you
can decide if you want the locomotive to start in
either FORWARD or NEUTRAL. Provision is made so that a switch can be
installed to lock the "E" unit in its initial state. Lock in FORWARD for
automation applications or lock in NEUTRAL to allow sound systems to
function with a static locomotive. If power is off for approximately 6
seconds, the "E" unit will reset to its initial "power on" position, usually
forward.

The "E" unit was also designed for easy installation of accessory items such
as lighting. Many lighting variations are possible and easy to incorporate.
If used for relays, a diode may be required to eliminate chatter or buzzing.


Warren Evans
alevans@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 201 From: Ken Zieska Date: 10/22/1998
Subject: Pines and Prairies/NASG 1999 Special
The Pines and Prairies S Scale Workshop is offering a super duper "Big
Kahuna" special in conjunction with the Fall S Fest. Look for the
flashing blue light special (or the big Kahuna hisself) for a package
deal on the 1999 NASG Convention and the four car sets ( Minnesota and
St. Louis covered hoppers or SOO Line potato reefers ). This special
deal is being offered to S-mail readers also! Look for it this weekend
on the NASG 1999 Convention Home page. If you fail to look us up this
weekend, tough luck and watch out for the big Kahuna when you are out
trick or treating.
From the Pines and Prairies S Scale Workshop.... Good Night and happy
1/64" railroading.

******Warning this notice is certified flame proof so don't even
bother***********
Your Friends Ken and Ben and the SD-45 conspiracy guy
Group: S-Trains Message: 202 From: Mac Date: 10/23/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 25
We've had some great threads but how to dispose of house cats is beginning
to "top the charts". I was always intrigued with the "two cats,
tails -tied, hung over the clothesline" scenario. Never tried it personally
but the vision is wonderful.

Been down so long, it all looks up to me!

-----Original Message-----
From: S-Trains@onelist.com [mailto:S-Trains@onelist.com]
Sent: Friday, October 23, 1998 4:19 AM
To: S-Trains@onelist.com
Subject: [S-Trains] Digest Number 25



Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
http://www.onelist.com/advert.html for more information.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
For information contact Paul Yorke (yorke@...) or visit
http://www.gate.net/~yorke/smail.htm


There are 12 messages in this issue.

Topics in today's digest:

1. Oil Derrick and Checkerboard Water tower For Sale
From: Mark Preman <amerflyer@...>
2. 479 motor loose
From: David_Horn@...
3. Re: Layout "maintenance"
From: "Mellon, Jay E." <jmellon@...>
4. Re: Layout "maintenance"
From: Roger Hinds <cofa@...>
5. Re: Layout "maintenance"
From: Roger Hinds <cofa@...>
6. Re: Cats
From: RxMan46321@...
7. Alan Gibson products
From: thompson@... (Keith B. Thompson - Sun)
8. Need Truck Wheels?
From: Keith Thompson <kthompso@...>
9. Re: Layout "maintenance"
From: RBubeck327@...
10. Re: Digest Number 24
From: Chuck Smith <cesmith@...>
11. What an E-Unit Is
From: "Allen Evans" <alevans@...>
12. Pines and Prairies/NASG 1999 Special
From: Ken Zieska <mhrr@...>


____________________________________________________________________________
___
____________________________________________________________________________
___

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 04:03:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Preman <amerflyer@...>
Subject: Oil Derrick and Checkerboard Water tower For Sale

Responding to Wayne Broadhead-I have one of each.
Please checkout my list of American Flyer For Sale at:
http://members.tripod.com/~amerflyer






____________________________________________________________________________
___
____________________________________________________________________________
___

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 08:59:10 -0400
From: David_Horn@...
Subject: 479 motor loose

As mentioned earlier - -two types - - one with yoke and field brace
separate, another with them together as one piece. In either case I've
found you should start with being sure you have the right screws and that
they can be securely tightened into the chassis. The two-piece type use a
shoulder screw. Otherwise, work with the centering screws carefully until
the field is centered and snug. On one unit I found a casting nub in one
of the bearing basins was preventing axial centering of the armature- -
lightly file or grind to remove.

PS If you have problems related to axle bearing wear (and that can cause a
lot irritating symptoms/problems), I've found the best thing to do is
replace the chassis with a late model version (complete with wheels, axles,
gears,and bushings). That is if you're first an operator. Collectors
might take issue with this because the wheel flanges are taller than the
old style and they aren't brass/bronze, but it's like getting a new engine
when you're done.




____________________________________________________________________________
___
____________________________________________________________________________
___

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 08:28:30 -0500
From: "Mellon, Jay E." <jmellon@...>
Subject: Re: Layout "maintenance"

See comments below.
J. Mellon
CCSG, New Orleans, LA

> ----------
> From: Richard McClary[SMTP:ardie@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 1998 8:15PM
> To: S-trains
> Subject: [S-Trains] Layout "maintenance"
>
> From: Richard McClary <ardie@...>
>
> Folks-
>
> How do you (especially those with layouts) deal with:
> 1. Dust?Vacuum cleaner. There are special attachments available
(MicroMark).
> 2. Cats? If possible, keep cats away from the layout. (I know that may be
difficult to accomplish, but prevention is the best solution.)
> 3. Cat hair and dander? Cat hair + model motors (especially open frame)
= DISASTER ! Check motors on a regular basis and clean out hair/gunk as
required. Good luck.
>
> TIA!
> --
> Richard McClary
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
> service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
> http://www.onelist.com/advert.html for more information.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> For information contact Paul Yorke (yorke@...) or visit
http://www.gate.net/~yorke/smail.htm
>


____________________________________________________________________________
___
____________________________________________________________________________
___

Message: 4
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 09:49:16 -0700
From: Roger Hinds <cofa@...>
Subject: Re: Layout "maintenance"

Richard McClary wrote:
>
> From: Richard McClary <ardie@...>
>
> Folks-
>
> How do you (especially those with layouts) deal with:
> 1. Dust?
> 2. Cats?
> 3. Cat hair and dander?
>
> TIA!
> --
How to deal with the cat problem:
In my case, I would not have a cat in the house. In your case; You
have two options.
First (and not likely) get rid of the cat. Second; keep the cat out of
the train room.
(for those that do not know. Cats run the house). ;o)

About the dust. Have no rugs in the train room. If you do, keep it
vacumed. If the layout is in the bedroom you will raise a lot of dust
every time blankets are moved in the bed.
Another point; Smoking will put a residue on yopur rails.
The track oil I sell will stop track problems, as far as dust goes.
Won't do much for hair.

I will send Richard info. on that.

Roger


____________________________________________________________________________
___
____________________________________________________________________________
___

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 10:01:46 -0700
From: Roger Hinds <cofa@...>
Subject: Re: Layout "maintenance"

David Dewey wrote:
>
David has a tree in his living room? Last years christmas tree? Have all
the needles fallen off David? Or perhaps he got his tree early for
this year.

I also have a bird. How to solve the feather shedding. Pluck the bird?
How about making little coats for the crittrs to stop the shedding?
:o)

David; Try the sample I sent you yet?

Roger


____________________________________________________________________________
___
____________________________________________________________________________
___

Message: 6
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 11:33:21 EDT
From: RxMan46321@...
Subject: Re: Cats

A gunney sack and near-by creek have always worked for me

John Griffin


____________________________________________________________________________
___
____________________________________________________________________________
___

Message: 7
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:47:19 -0400
From: thompson@... (Keith B. Thompson - Sun)
Subject: Alan Gibson products


Hi,

Does anyone carry products from Alan Gibson (UK)
or have dealt with him at all (like best way to
contact)? I have a couple pages from his catalogue
that describe some locomotive drivers that I'm
interested in.

kbt



____________________________________________________________________________
___
____________________________________________________________________________
___

Message: 8
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 13:56:34 -0700
From: Keith Thompson <kthompso@...>
Subject: Need Truck Wheels?

Hi All,

I just got the latest Stratton's e-mail list and saw an item that will come
in handy for those of us looking for more realistic wheels for our S scale
"toy" trucks. ERTL is offering its truck wheels seperately and Stratton's
carries them in a set as follows:

ERTL - TF-1 - 1/64 Price = $2.00
Tractor - Front Axle(1) Assembly For Semi-truck (tires/rims/axle)
--------------------
ERTL - TFR-3 - 1/64 Price = $6.00
Tractor - Front(1) Rear(2) Axle Assembly For Semi-truck (tires/rims/axles)
--------------------
ERTL - TR-2 - 1/64 Price = $5.00
Trailer - Axle(2) Assembly For Semi-truck (tires/rims/axles)

I assume these are the one-piece modern wheels used on trucks since the
mid-1960s and not the older "knock-down" wheels with bolts next to the rims.
To find out more about these and other ertl parts as well as ordering from
Stratton's go to: http://www.dstratton.com/newtoys.html. -- Keith Thompson




____________________________________________________________________________
___
____________________________________________________________________________
___

Message: 9
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 19:32:47 EDT
From: RBubeck327@...
Subject: Re: Layout "maintenance"

1. A filtered heat and cooling system does wonders for limiting dust. Once
in
a while the use of dusting brush and a careful light vacuuming is needed.
2. I would not let any cat anywhere near my trains.

RB


____________________________________________________________________________
___
____________________________________________________________________________
___

Message: 10
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 22:42:23 -0400
From: Chuck Smith <cesmith@...>
Subject: Re: Digest Number 24

S-Trains@onelist.com wrote:

> 1. Lighted Caboose Buzzes Constantly
> From: "L Montgomery" <lmontgo@...>

> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 08:57:23 -0700
> From: "L Montgomery" <lmontgo@...>
> Subject: Lighted Caboose Buzzes Constantly
>
> Hi again,
>
> I'm gradually getting a pile of AF stuff back into working condition.
Here's the latest challenge. I have a lighted caboose with a flagman that
is supposed to move back and forth but based on a transformer signal (from
the whistle control I think). I can hear the electromagnet click when I
operate the whistle control but the caboose buzzes constantly with just
track power active. Any advice would be appreciated.
>
> Monty
You have an automated brakenman caboose. The breakman should stay on
the platform when the train runs, held by the solenoid which you hear
buzzing. When the train stops, (power removed) the brakeman leans out
to check the train ahead. That's all it does. There's no control for
this action beyond turning the train on and off.

--
"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers and the
S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith


____________________________________________________________________________
___
____________________________________________________________________________
___

Message: 11
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 21:48:25 -0500
From: "Allen Evans" <alevans@...>
Subject: What an E-Unit Is

For those who may not be aware of the term "E-Unit", this as a basic
description:

E-Units are miniature circuit boards that are primarily found in most AC
powered model railroad tracks and some DC powered tracks, but primarily in
the "O" and "S" scale families.

The E-Unit circuit board can be about 1" by 2.1" by 1" in height, and is
designed for universal
use. An E-Unit provides sequential direction control for wound field series
type motors and for the older (very old) locomotives with permanent magnet
DC motors. It has a continuous duty capacity of four (4) amperes of current
flow, sufficient for a two motored locomotive.

While most operators will use AC track power, many "E" units also sequence
with DC track power. The initial "power on" state is user selectable so you
can decide if you want the locomotive to start in
either FORWARD or NEUTRAL. Provision is made so that a switch can be
installed to lock the "E" unit in its initial state. Lock in FORWARD for
automation applications or lock in NEUTRAL to allow sound systems to
function with a static locomotive. If power is off for approximately 6
seconds, the "E" unit will reset to its initial "power on" position, usually
forward.

The "E" unit was also designed for easy installation of accessory items such
as lighting. Many lighting variations are possible and easy to incorporate.
If used for relays, a diode may be required to eliminate chatter or buzzing.


Warren Evans
alevans@...



____________________________________________________________________________
___
____________________________________________________________________________
___

Message: 12
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 22:11:56 -0500
From: Ken Zieska <mhrr@...>
Subject: Pines and Prairies/NASG 1999 Special

The Pines and Prairies S Scale Workshop is offering a super duper "Big
Kahuna" special in conjunction with the Fall S Fest. Look for the
flashing blue light special (or the big Kahuna hisself) for a package
deal on the 1999 NASG Convention and the four car sets ( Minnesota and
St. Louis covered hoppers or SOO Line potato reefers ). This special
deal is being offered to S-mail readers also! Look for it this weekend
on the NASG 1999 Convention Home page. If you fail to look us up this
weekend, tough luck and watch out for the big Kahuna when you are out
trick or treating.
From the Pines and Prairies S Scale Workshop.... Good Night and happy
1/64" railroading.

******Warning this notice is certified flame proof so don't even
bother***********
Your Friends Ken and Ben and the SD-45 conspiracy guy



____________________________________________________________________________
___
____________________________________________________________________________
___
Group: S-Trains Message: 203 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 10/23/1998
Subject: hazard-free degreasing
What should I use instead of paint thinner to degrease parts, chassis,
etc.? My favorite method is to use a pickle jar with about an inch of
paint thinner in the bottom. Drop in whatever (including whole chassis)
needs degreasing, shake (how vigorously depends on what's in the jar),
remove, wipe or brush the remaining grease/oil off, and towel dry. Works
great but oh the fumes, especially now that it's getting colder at night
and open windows are less practical. Has anyone tried "odorless" thinner?
Thanks.
Group: S-Trains Message: 204 From: RxMan46321@xxx.xxx Date: 10/23/1998
Subject: Switch machines
Need suggestions for a surface mounted switch machine for those hard to reach
"turnouts". Am using AM track and turnouts.

John Griffin
Group: S-Trains Message: 205 From: David Dewey Date: 10/23/1998
Subject: Re: hazard-free degreasing
Hi all,
"paint Thinner" is mearly Mineral Spirits. "Oderless" paint thinner is
Mineral Spirits with some perfume added. Now for the interesting part:
Depending on your Store, Paint Thiner will cost considerably more or less
than Mineral Spirits. Buyer Beware!!<G> The hardware clerks have never been
able to answer why when I've asked.
'Most anything that will disolve the old caked on grease, etc. is going to
aromatic, so I don't have a solution, maybe a little fan in the window? My
air brush painting boot useses an old clothes dryer fan with a small motor
running it, not the original big dryer motor. The hose is just run out the
window, and you could make a plywood filler to keep the outside air outside,
and inside air inside.
The "ideal" degreaser set up is an ultrasonic cleaner. I don't have one,
but I visited a repair shop that does, and it's neat! I'd suggest hitting a
college surplus auction, I have a friend who picked up one a few years ago
for around $20. He never uses it, but won't sell it, or loan it, to me!!!
How's it work? You drop your loco into this water w/ a little non-foaming
wetting agent (ie: a soap of some sort) and the grease, etc. is just
vibrated off!
Really keen, he just drops whole loco motors in. He claims he can do a
cleaning and lubing that way without disassembling it. Don't think I could
do that, I'd still take the electrical componants off and then put the
chassis in. I KNOW I'd remove smoke units first! But then I'm usually
finicky.
S'incerely,
David Dewey
Watch the Railroad watch and repeat after me, "The future is in S, the
future is in S, the future is in S, the future...."
Group: S-Trains Message: 206 From: Roger Hinds Date: 10/23/1998
Subject: E-units
E-units were in existance before the term "circuit board existed".
And the unit always has been the reverse unit.

I have never heard of a circuit board in track. A circuit board is what
all your electrical components (transistors, diodes, resistors etc) are
hitched to. And it has a road map consisting of (foil like) circuits
instead of wires.

I just had a thought. I think that fellow is refering to a diagram (with
lights in it) of the track plan at the control tower. Seems to me in the
early 50's this was refered to as a circuit board.

Roger
Group: S-Trains Message: 207 From: Roger Hinds Date: 10/23/1998
Subject: Switch Machines
First of all; experienced model railroaders learned that having hard to
reach switch machines is a NO NO. After a while you will be sorry.
(Then again maybe not) Unless you are one of the lucky ones.

Anyway. Atlas made switches in "O" guage (sorry) Perhaps the machines
for them will be of use. You will have to check with atlas.

Also Peco has various switch machines. Their address is;
Pritchard Patent Product co.ltd.
Beer, Seaton, Devon,ex12 3na.England

Boy! some address.

Some fellows have run a stiff wire from the edge of the layout to the
track switch. And with proper leverages etc. it worked out fine.

There have been many articles on the subject over the years.

Roger
Group: S-Trains Message: 208 From: Roger Hinds Date: 10/23/1998
Subject: Grease removal
I think what you use, is what you are comfortable with.

Personaly, I use gasoline. I go to an area out side where there is no
chance of flames or sparks. I use a small brush and small amounts of
gas.

If I get any on my clothes I rinse with water right away, which is
seldom.
NOTE: I am NOT recommending gas. I just am letting you know what I use
and the precautions I take.

After the train part has dried I blow it off with air pressure.

Also take into consideration; Can the product you use harm the Paint,
chrome, decals, or rubber tires.

Paint thinner is also flammable by the way. WD40 Allowed to soak in
the grease will work in some cases.
However; The best choice is to get it out completly and start fresh with
new grease.

The main problem, is OLD original Grease in AF trains hardens in the
axel frame holes, and might take a few treatments to get it out. I use
white litheium grease as a replacement. There is lubricating grease. But
I call this "slippery" grease. This is great for AF gears. DO NOT use
vaseline. It is OK for a while. but it gets thick and pasty gumming the
works up.

Roger
Group: S-Trains Message: 209 From: TPLCoMinn@xxx.xxx Date: 10/23/1998
Subject: Alan Gibson
I am not aware of anyone on this side of the pond carrying the Alan Gibson
range. If you hear otherwise please let me know.

Alan Gibson (Workshop)
The Bungalow, Church Road
Lingwood, Norwich, Norfolk, UK
NR13 4TR

Tel & Fax 01603 715862 (8am-6pm GMT, Mon-Sat ONLY please!)
Group: S-Trains Message: 210 From: JOPKE, WALTER Date: 10/23/1998
Subject: Lake Special 99 - The 1999 NASG National Convention Webpage
Because of the very hard work of Craig O'Connell, the web page for the 1999
NASG National Convention is now ready. Please pay special attention to the
"S Fest" link. As "flameproof" Ken Zieska pointed out in yesterday's
S-Trains, there is a "Big Kahuna" special offering. The address of the
"Lake Special 99" web page is:

http://trainweb.com/nasg1999

"Come to the Pines in 99!"

The SD45 Conspiracy Guy
Group: S-Trains Message: 211 From: Ken Zieska Date: 10/23/1998
Subject: Thursday report
The Pines and Prairies S Scale Workshop meetings seem to revolve around
the 1999 Convention but we did huddle and discuss the Minnesota
Heartland a bit last night. As a result, there is about 20 more feet of
mainline that will be realigned, another bridge moved and of course
chaos.
One advantage of having a club is that when the box of train goodies
come to the house you can always say...well most of it is for Tom, Walt,
Dave or whomever. Tonight I found a 17 inch monitor on sale for a steal
so I picked it up. Shouldn't be hard to sneak that it I figured.....
Little did I realize that some of the monitors were made in black
cases. It looks great but I think I would have better success hiding a
dozen brass locomotives on the layout than getting by with this. Oh am
I going to be in trouble when Marilyn comes back to town. Sounds like I
better have the wash done and the house picked up... I wonder if flowers
would be to much.
Stay tuned for more trials and tribulations on the Minnesota Heartland
and stop on over to see the results next summer.
Ken
Group: S-Trains Message: 212 From: RxMan46321@aol.com Date: 10/24/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 26
What happened to the rest of the messages? Only got #1
Group: S-Trains Message: 213 From: Chuck Smith Date: 10/24/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 26
S-Trains@onelist.com wrote:
> 3. Switch machines
> From: RxMan46321@...
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 11:08:10 EDT
> From: RxMan46321@...
> Subject: Switch machines
>
> Need suggestions for a surface mounted switch machine for those hard to reach
> "turnouts". Am using AM track and turnouts.
>
> John Griffin
>
I have used an AM switch with the AM surface mounted switch motor and
was very satisfied with the results. The switch works perfectly. See
if AM will supply the switch motors separately to avoid the expense of
buying new switches. If you have the older AM switches without the motor
mounts simply position the motor next to the switch and secure it with a
little silicone cement or caulk. The switch motors are small and
unobtrusive. If you want to include any power switching use an Atlas
snap relay for that. I used one to power and unpower the siding from
the switch position.
Alternatively: If you examine the AM switch motors they are really Atlas
HO units with an extended throw arm to provide the correct displacement
for S gauge. I suspect it would not be that hard to rig up an Atlas
switch motor to operate an AM switch if you're so inclined. The
advantage there is that HO machines are available at virtually any hobby
shop.
--
"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers and the
S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith
Group: S-Trains Message: 214 From: David L. Cooke Date: 10/24/1998
Subject: SWITCHMACHINES
If anyone needs switchmachines I have approx 100 Switchmaster inclding
the dpdt switches they were bought for $ 29.95 each I am selling them
for $ 10.00 each
David Cooke
Group: S-Trains Message: 215 From: Keith Thompson Date: 10/24/1998
Subject: Re: Thursday report
Hey Ken,

Why don't you try the Post-It trick. You know, cover the edge of the
monitor in Post-It notes and hope she doesn't notice the background is black.

Another trick might be to "weather" the new monitor and convince her that
the old one caught on fire but you doused the blaze before anymore damage
was done. That'll explain the swelling too. Another advantage to this
scheme is that she may feel sorry for you and buy you a 21" monitor. If she
does, just remember your old buddy in Washington that gave you the idea.

You know, maybe I've been watching too much Red Green lately. -- Keith
Thompson


At 12:15 AM 10/24/98 -0500, you wrote:
>From: Ken Zieska <mhrr@...>
>
>The Pines and Prairies S Scale Workshop meetings seem to revolve around
>the 1999 Convention but we did huddle and discuss the Minnesota
>Heartland a bit last night. As a result, there is about 20 more feet of
>mainline that will be realigned, another bridge moved and of course
>chaos.
>One advantage of having a club is that when the box of train goodies
>come to the house you can always say...well most of it is for Tom, Walt,
>Dave or whomever. Tonight I found a 17 inch monitor on sale for a steal
>so I picked it up. Shouldn't be hard to sneak that it I figured.....
>Little did I realize that some of the monitors were made in black
>cases. It looks great but I think I would have better success hiding a
>dozen brass locomotives on the layout than getting by with this. Oh am
>I going to be in trouble when Marilyn comes back to town. Sounds like I
>better have the wash done and the house picked up... I wonder if flowers
>would be too much.
>Stay tuned for more trials and tribulations on the Minnesota Heartland
>and stop on over to see the results next summer.
>Ken
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
>service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
>http://www.onelist.com/advert.html for more information.
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>For information contact Paul Yorke (yorke@...) or visit
http://www.gate.net/~yorke/smail.htm
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 216 From: Ken Zieska Date: 10/24/1998
Subject: three axel lust
I really hate to do this but I feel that it is only fair to report the
depths to which our friend Walt, the SD45 conspiracy guy has fallen to.
The Northern Pacific Railway Historical Society calendar for 1999 has a
photo of a pair of brand new SD-45 in front of the Mississippi Street
shops. Walt has scratch built a wonderful model of the Mississippi St.
shops and has lusted after SD-45's for ever. I am sure you see the
problem. He is convinced that the only reason that this engine, the
gustiest three axle engine ever, has not been built must be a conspirisy
by the manufacturing community of S. After all this is the Allegheny,
Daylight and Mohawk of Diesels all built into one and if the PA will go
around corners, this would also. Walt is like a teenage boy with a copy
of National Geographic, lusting over these shapely babies, he needs a
diversion...... How can you help? Well Walt is doing registration for
the NASG 1999 Convention. When you send him your registration include a
note of encouragement. We have suggested a 12 step program for Diesel
dependency and support from his friends will be important.
Well I need to get back to cleaning the house, I am still trying to
explain the carton of Pacific Rail Shop NP Reefers, a new snow blower
and now this monitor.... I need some serious brownie points If your
sending me trains. better send them to work, I am running out of
excuses.
Ken Z.
Group: S-Trains Message: 217 From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton Date: 10/24/1998
Subject: AF Roadbed
Does anyone have Gilbert roadbed, in gray, they want to sell? I have just
gotten a couple dozen pieces, and now I have the itch to do my current
loops and two or three more with gray roadbed.

Thanks.

Steve Pendleton
bestofbreed@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 218 From: mhrreast@juno.com Date: 10/25/1998
Subject: MISC
Cats - I think you guys misunderstood. The way I read
it, Richard was asking for help in superdetailing his layout
when he asked how we deal with dust, cats, and cat hair.
1. Dust, use scale size dust, available coming OUT of
any vacuum cleaner bag.
2. Cats, C&D has been asking for suggestions, maybe they
would offer a scale size cat in their line.
3. Cat hair - for the above mentioned cat casting? I would
think that some that painting the cat with a flat color, and
then blowing some of that scale size dust onto it would
look good.

Degreasing - There are some citrus based cleaners that do a
great job of cleaning. Check the home or auto section of your
neighborhood super store.

Actuating switches. I like the BK switch stands. For the stiff
wire method, a auto manual choke cable works well. There was
an article on this in the Dispatch within the last few years.

Ken - you also can tell Marilyn that some of those reefers and other
goodies are for Ted, and that they are delivered to your house so that
Ted does not get in trouble! BTW, I know that new monitor would
work better than roses at my house, so if the Post-Its (R) and
weathering don't fly, send the monitor when you send the reefers!

THANKS all for the C&D info. Keep that info about new
manufacturers coming in.

Ted Larson mhrreast@...
http://members.aol.com/FLCCC/55larson.htm

___________________________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 219 From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton Date: 10/25/1998
Subject: AF Air Chime Whistle
I have just bought and received a Hudson with air chime whistle. I hooked
up a test track and the air chime controller and set the engine on the
track.

The "whistle" sounds more like a hoarse frog. I have heard the diesel
horn, and this sound was not even that good.

Are the air chime whistle and the diesel horn supposed to be the same
sound? If so, I would rather send back this Hudson (the seller has agreed
to take it back) and put the money I paid for it, toward another engine I
don't have. I already have a 322 w/o whistle. And I have a 314AW incl.
controller that is "close" to working--I think the controller needs a
replacement component.

thanks to anyone who can shed light on the "whistle issue."
Group: S-Trains Message: 220 From: David Dewey Date: 10/25/1998
Subject: Re: AF Air Chime Whistle
Welcome to the disapointing world of the AF Air Chime Whistle. I read about
these whsitles in my catalogs and dreamed of having one for years. When I
finally got one, I thought it was broken! Some people claim to have gotten a
fair sound out of them, I dunno. I do have a 346 with the controller with a
slide switch, haven't tried it out yet, maybe it's more realistic?
S'incerely,
David Dewey
Watch the Railroad watch and repeat after me, "The future is in S, the
future is in S, the future is in S, the future...."
Group: S-Trains Message: 221 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 10/26/1998
Subject: degreasing, air chime, chassis
On the citrus cleaners - - sounds good, do you have any product names? I
looked at Simple Green and others like that this weekend, and while "safe
for general health" they still have many of the same warnings. Air chime,
while called a whistle, isn't. If yours sounds more like the buzz or honk
of a modern ambulance than a whistle, that's the way they are. Even
cleaning the contacts in the controller only makes the disappointing sound
louder. Different dielectric capacitors don't help much either. I removed
mine from my layout. I prefer the Whistling billboard. Don't have a
314AW. Please let us know how that comes out. On the late model Alco
chassis I mentioned earlier, you will need to tap the holes - - if I recall
correctly some are 4X40 others 6X32 (at work now, don't have mine handy).
Group: S-Trains Message: 222 From: JOPKE, WALTER Date: 10/26/1998
Subject: "Mental Health" and Model Railroading
Ken Zieska makes a valid point. I AM desperate. But he did not do justice
to the depths of my desperation. He forgot to tell you that I do own one of
the Overland S scale brass SD40-2's. The good news is that the SD40-2 and
the SD-45 share the same chassis length and wheelbase. The bad news is that
the SD40-2's have a newer 3 axle truck. However, the River Raisin SD7/9
brass model, while too short for an SD-45, has basically the correct truck
style. So I'm thinking - locate a River Raisin SD7/9 and 'bash-it with my
SD40-2 into a nice SD-45. But, then, what do I do for the 2nd and 3rd units
I need?

If you have a chance, take a look at the Northern Pacific Railway Historical
Society 1999 calendar. I just have to be able pose two of those beauties in
the front of my Mississippi Street shops. But anyone who knows anything
about the history of this engine just has to model the original GN "Hustle
Muscle". (If you make it to St Paul in July for the "Lake Special 99", I
sure hope you include some time to hike up to Duluth - the original Hustle
Muscle has been restored.)

The SD-45 Conspiracy Guy
Group: S-Trains Message: 223 From: Thompson, Keith Date: 10/26/1998
Subject: Re: "Mental Health" and Model Railroading
Hi Walter,

Actually, the SD40-2 shares the same chassis as the SD45-2 which is
approximately 3' longer than the SD45. To confuse matters even more the
SD40A (IC only), SD45T-2, and SD40T-2 use the same chassis as the SDP45
which is almost 6' longer than the SD45.

For your bashing, you'd be better off starting with the River Raisin SD7/9
frame that's sold separately (I think Heimberger House still has some.) Then
use a pair of American Models GP35 shells to make the SD45 since a GP35 is
closer in latch and door placement than the SD40-2. The toughest part would
be modeling the angled radiators and the hump on top of the air intake. A
lot of folks did this in HO using Athearn's GP35 and a Tenshodo SD9 drive
before Athearn had its SD45 out. -- Keith Thompson

> ----------
> From: JOPKE, WALTER[SMTP:jopke@...]
> Sent: Monday, October 26, 1998 9:30 AM
> To: 'S-Trains@onelist.com'
> Cc: 'sgaugemn@...'
> Subject: [S-Trains] "Mental Health" and Model Railroading
>
> From: "JOPKE, WALTER" <jopke@...>
>
> Ken Zieska makes a valid point. I AM desperate. But he did not do
> justice
> to the depths of my desperation. He forgot to tell you that I do own one
> of
> the Overland S scale brass SD40-2's. The good news is that the SD40-2 and
> the SD-45 share the same chassis length and wheelbase. The bad news is
> that
> the SD40-2's have a newer 3 axle truck. However, the River Raisin SD7/9
> brass model, while too short for an SD-45, has basically the correct truck
> style. So I'm thinking - locate a River Raisin SD7/9 and 'bash-it with my
> SD40-2 into a nice SD-45. But, then, what do I do for the 2nd and 3rd
> units
> I need?
>
> If you have a chance, take a look at the Northern Pacific Railway
> Historical
> Society 1999 calendar. I just have to be able pose two of those beauties
> in
> the front of my Mississippi Street shops. But anyone who knows anything
> about the history of this engine just has to model the original GN "Hustle
> Muscle". (If you make it to St Paul in July for the "Lake Special 99", I
> sure hope you include some time to hike up to Duluth - the original Hustle
> Muscle has been restored.)
>
> The SD-45 Conspiracy Guy
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> For information contact Paul Yorke (yorke@...) or visit
> http://www.gate.net/~yorke/smail.htm
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 224 From: PortLines@xxx.xxx Date: 10/26/1998
Subject: Re: Horns and Whistles
In a message dated 10/26/98 5:08:54 AM, you wrote:

<<Are the air chime whistle and the diesel horn supposed to be the same

sound? If so, I would rather send back this Hudson (the seller has agreed

to take it back) and put the money I paid for it, toward another engine I

don't have. I already have a 322 w/o whistle. And I have a 314AW incl.

controller that is "close" to working--I think the controller needs a

replacement component.

>>

The "air chimes" don't have great tone......nor do the diesel "horns". They
all sound like buzzers! The BEST sound comes from the 314AW, because it is a
totally different mechanism......not just a speaker that buzzes. For that
matter, the billboard steam whistles are far better sound than the engines
themselves!
Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)
Port Lines Hobby Supply
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Port Lines @ aol.com http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 225 From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx Date: 10/26/1998
Subject: Re: AF Air Chime Whistle
Air chime whistles are one of the weaknesses in Gilbert Flyer. The quality of
the sound that you do obtain is very dependent on the vibrator in the control
unit. The vibrators are a variation of what used to be used in 6 volt power
supplies for car radios in the 1950's. More authoritive sound can be had by a
careful hand selection of a vintage sample, but this is a trial process.
Those that are handy (and harty) can atttempt to cut and old can vibrator open
and play with the gap adjustment.

Hope that this is not too discouraging. I have acquired some vibrators that
do result in a decent sound, given the limitations of the beast.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 226 From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx Date: 10/26/1998
Subject: Target
Unadvertised Special at Target:

Mint Editions $2.99
older Nascars: $1.50

Ted Larson mhrreast@...
http://members.aol.com/FLCCC/55larson.htm

___________________________________________________________________
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Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Group: S-Trains Message: 227 From: Alex Binkley Date: 10/26/1998
Subject: Modern S group
Hi:
> I received a letter today from Dave Bailey about his plan to wind up the
> Modern Prototype S Scale Modelers SIG. He cites an overwhelming lack of
> interest on his part. I wonder if anyone else on this list beside Hilary
> Smith and I belonged to this SIG and whether there is any interest in
> trying to revive it.
> cheers
> --
> Alex Binkley,
> Hammond, Ontario, Canada

--
Alex Binkley,
Hammond, Ontario, Canada
Group: S-Trains Message: 228 From: Arthur Armstrong Date: 10/26/1998
Subject: Re: Modern S group
Hi Alex and all -

I am not sure who is quoting whom here but - if this SIG is the Proto-64
SIG then the only thing holding me back is the word "modern".

I would like to participate in a P:64 sig or whatever but my date is
1935.

This sig could be like Prototype Modelers who quite successfully
represent specific cars - I think there is no specific era or scale
involved.

Or - this sig could be Proto:64 - for any era.

Do you know more about it? I have been a little disappointed in the
interest expressed in Proto:64 - seemed to hit its peak and then die
off. Maybe this is the way back into it.

Sometimes I think that S scalers are so used to being lone-wolfs that
they just don't respond to group activities. A group will be useful if
the manufacturers respond to interests of a larger group with scale
details, wheel sets, etc..

Art Armstrong
aarmstro@...

> From: Alex Binkley <alex.binkley@...>
>
> Hi:
> > I received a letter today from Dave Bailey about his plan to wind up the
> > Modern Prototype S Scale Modelers SIG. He cites an overwhelming lack of
> > interest on his part. I wonder if anyone else on this list beside Hilary
> > Smith and I belonged to this SIG and whether there is any interest in
> > trying to revive it.
> > cheers
> > --
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 229 From: Richard Snook Date: 10/26/1998
Subject: Re: Modern S group
Alex,

I model the modern era, the 90's and am very keen to communicate with like others, especially as it is a way for me to go to see the real thing!!! I wondered what happened to that group; had noticed it on the NMRA pages. Were many involved?? I would be a starter for some sort of group!!

cheers

Richard :-))



-----Original Message-----
From: Alex Binkley [SMTP:alex.binkley@...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 1998 4:08 PM
To: s-trains@onelist.com
Subject: [S-Trains] Modern S group

From: Alex Binkley <alex.binkley@...>

Hi:
> I received a letter today from Dave Bailey about his plan to wind up the
> Modern Prototype S Scale Modelers SIG. He cites an overwhelming lack of
> interest on his part. I wonder if anyone else on this list beside Hilary
> Smith and I belonged to this SIG and whether there is any interest in
> trying to revive it.
> cheers
> --
> Alex Binkley,
> Hammond, Ontario, Canada

--
Alex Binkley,
Hammond, Ontario, Canada


------------------------------------------------------------------------
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------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Group: S-Trains Message: 230 From: Ken Zieska Date: 10/26/1998
Subject: Sad note
I just received a phone call from Dave Jasper informing me of Ken
Mackenzie's death. Ken has been fighting cancer this year and passed
away today. Dave and Ken were very dear friends of many years and Dave
had the opportunity to visit Ken this weekend in the hospital. Ken
will be remembered for many things, his wonderful smile and the twinkle
in his eye when he greated you, his kindness and friendship. While Ken
never built his dream layout, he participated in our hobby in many
ways. Ken started the S SIG in the NMRA back in 1985, publishing a
delightful newsletter the ESSENCE for a little over two years. Ken was
active in the Badgerland group and hosted many late night social
discussions at the S Fest.
I am sure a better memorial for Ken Mackenzie will be prepared but I
would ask us all to take a moment in our busy lives to fondly remember a
friend. Share your prayers for Ken and his family who grieve the loss.
Be thankful for the gift of life, family and friends we still enjoy and
share a smile in memory of the one's we will no longer share with Ken
Mackenzie
Group: S-Trains Message: 231 From: Hilary Smith Date: 10/27/1998
Subject: Re: Modern S group
Alex & All:

I believe the focus of this SIG was just a bit too narrow but a Proto 64 SIG may well have a larger
audience. What that needs in order to happen, IMO, is for at least one person to take charge and make
it happen. There are a couple of key people in the other Proto XX movements without them . . . maybe
those organizations would not exist.

Sounds to me like there is a handful of people on this list who would be interested in being part of a
Proto 64 SIG. But the question to those people, myself included, is whether we have the sufficient
interest to devote time, energy, and money to making it happen.

I'm still chewing over what role, if any, I would want to take on in such an endeavor.

Hilary Smith
Northern Virginia

Alex Binkley wrote:

> From: Alex Binkley <alex.binkley@...>
>
> Hi:
> > I received a letter today from Dave Bailey about his plan to wind up the
> > Modern Prototype S Scale Modelers SIG. He cites an overwhelming lack of
> > interest on his part. I wonder if anyone else on this list beside Hilary
> > Smith and I belonged to this SIG and whether there is any interest in
> > trying to revive it.
> > cheers
> > --
> > Alex Binkley,
> > Hammond, Ontario, Canada
>
> --
> Alex Binkley,
> Hammond, Ontario, Canada
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> For information contact Paul Yorke (yorke@...) or visit http://www.gate.net/~yorke/smail.htm
Group: S-Trains Message: 232 From: Alex Binkley Date: 10/27/1998
Subject: Modern S group
Hi:
Hilary Smith, Arthur Armstrong and Richard Snook all replied to my query
about the Modern SIG. It seems there is a desire for more on proto 64
with modern S an offshoot espy for steam-era Arthur. I think will write
Richard Bailey to get his list of those who are the modern list. anyone
got a handle on who's interested in proto 64. maybe for starter we need
to keep lists of those who are interested in either or both.
suggestions?
cheers

--
Alex Binkley,
Hammond, Ontario, Canada
Group: S-Trains Message: 233 From: esquivel Date: 10/27/1998
Subject: Re: Modern S group
hello, i am interested in the modern stuff. does anyone know if they make
an S guage engine that talks and whistles and smokes and makes steam
noises. I would love to have one. It does not have to be new.
thanks esquivel
esquivel@...

----------
> From: Alex Binkley <alex.binkley@...>
> To: Hilary Smith <hilsmth@...>
> Cc: aarmstro@...; richard.snook@...;
s-trains@onelist.com
> Subject: [S-Trains] Modern S group
> Date: Tuesday, October 27, 1998 9:32 PM
>
> From: Alex Binkley <alex.binkley@...>
>
> Hi:
> Hilary Smith, Arthur Armstrong and Richard Snook all replied to my query

> about the Modern SIG. It seems there is a desire for more on proto 64
> with modern S an offshoot espy for steam-era Arthur. I think will write
> Richard Bailey to get his list of those who are the modern list. anyone
> got a handle on who's interested in proto 64. maybe for starter we need
> to keep lists of those who are interested in either or both.
> suggestions?
> cheers
>
> --
> Alex Binkley,
> Hammond, Ontario, Canada
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
> service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
> http://www.onelist.com/advert.html for more information.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> For information contact Paul Yorke (yorke@...) or visit
http://www.gate.net/~yorke/smail.htm
Group: S-Trains Message: 234 From: Richard Snook Date: 10/27/1998
Subject: Modern, proto etc
Hello all,

I get the gist that what some of us would like and maybe others might like to join, is as Alex alludes to and I think Arthur mentioned, a Prototype Modellers type setup..formal or otherwise. The driver behind most Prototype Groups is a desire to maintain fidelity to the original, be it locomotives, rolling stock or engineering infrastructure (read wheels,track, bridges,buildings etc). Personally I think more the merrier!!!! comments????


:-)) Richard
Group: S-Trains Message: 235 From: Paul Yorke Date: 10/27/1998
Subject: Proto 64 - group
As soon as you establish one or two contact persons,
and a 'mission statement' I can set you up with a web page, so
new s-trains folks and web surfers can find you.

The best part about the web is that you can start relationships with
other that share a common interest, reguardless of where in the
world you are. I bet once you guys get going, more of the
non-Flyer oriented folks will express an interest.

Maybe a chat session??

--
Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl.
American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers
http://www.gate.net/~yorke (alt e-mail paulyork@...)
Group: S-Trains Message: 236 From: sigma@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Date: 10/28/1998
Subject: Canadians
I would like the e-mail addresses for Canadian subscribers to S-Trains.
This is for the purpose of expanding the list used by S Canada and
Canadian S Scale Quarterly.
Submissions will be gratefully acknowledged.
Joe Pereira
Group: S-Trains Message: 237 From: kelvin white Date: 10/28/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 26
>Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 16:47:19 -0400
> From: thompson@... (Keith B. Thompson - Sun)
>Subject: Alan Gibson products
>
>
>Hi,
>
>Does anyone carry products from Alan Gibson (UK)
>or have dealt with him at all (like best way to
>contact)? I have a couple pages from his catalogue
>that describe some locomotive drivers that I'm
>interested in.
>
>kbt

Hi Keith
Drop him a line,Alan Gibson will except mastercard orders, specify if
you want goods send surface or airmail - if you are real stuck I will
order for you and ship on.
>

--
Kelvin White
Oxford England.
Group: S-Trains Message: 238 From: Chris Palomarez Date: 10/28/1998
Subject: Modern and proto interest
Hello to everyone,

I'm very much interested in a proto and/or modern group to take part
in. I just joined S scale and still pretty much an arm chair modeller
until I cultivate more ideas and information about where to begin and
what detail parts are available and what I'll need to cast myself. A
knowledge base and a place where to exchange ideas and give clinics for
proto 64 or modern equipment would be very much welcome by me! Keep me
informed.

Chris Palomarez
Group: S-Trains Message: 239 From: JOPKE, WALTER Date: 10/28/1998
Subject: Power chassis for River Raisin SD7/9 Locomotive
River Raisin had separately offered the power chassis (base, trucks with
wheelsets, motors and gears, brass details) for their SD7/9 locomotive.
Does anyone have one of these available they would be willing to sell? If
so, please contact Walt Jopke @ jopke@....

Thanks,

Walt
Group: S-Trains Message: 240 From: Ken Zieska Date: 10/28/1998
Subject: Busted
Well it had to happen, I worked late tonight and called home. Marilyn
mentioned that she had been in the den and wondered where or where did
that big new monitor come from. I of course told her about how eyesight
gets less keen as you get old and all of that but she had me on the hook
and played it for all she could. I offered to let her read all the good
advice I received from the S Mail guys on how to hide it which she found
very funny. So anyway, the monitor stays and for now she says I can
also.
I was distroying some more of the layout tonight which is never fun.
Elizabeth asked if she could help and so we worked on it together. I
guess, I may have gotten more work done alone but I would not have
enjoyed it as much.
I have not seen an S Mail since Sunday. I am going to try to track back
one mail or what ever that was but I would also like to know everyone is
still out there.
Ken
Group: S-Trains Message: 241 From: John Foley Date: 10/29/1998
Subject: Proto 64
Hi Folks
A couple of years ago I asked Dave Heine to edit a column in the
Dispatch on Sn3. This has worked out just fine. So if there is any modeler
who would like to edit a column about Proto 64 and use it to get a list of
folks who are interested in this please let me know and I we take it up with
Jeff madden and the NASG board. If interested please include your phone no.
and I will get back to you.
John Foley
NASG Eastern VP
Group: S-Trains Message: 242 From: kelvin white Date: 10/29/1998
Subject: Modern Prototype 'S'cale Modellers Group
Hi All

I received the same letter as you from Dave Bailey.

I had previously offered (to Dave) to edit a MPSM newsletter on a shared
basis, in the same way as the CSSQ. He never replied.

I am in favour of keeping the group going (email only if necessary),
however the discussions have been about two subjects which need to be
seperated out.

Modern Prototype Modelling - ie: S scale modelling within the last 20
years.

Proto 64

I don't believe they should be the same group. I would support both but
I don't want to see them mixed - it was wrong for Randy and Dave to try
to use MPSM to push P64, after all P64 is not date related.

Please keep me advised of your thoughts
--
Kelvin White
16 Brogden Close
North Hinksey
Oxford OX2 9DS
England

Tel 01865 249897
Group: S-Trains Message: 243 From: Alex Binkley Date: 10/29/1998
Subject: Re: Modern Prototype 'S'cale Modellers Group
kelvin:
I agree with Kelvin on the division of the modern and proto 64 and I'm
interested in both. I have written Bailey asking for the membership list
he had. when I hear back from I will let you know.
Meanwhile is anyone interested in shepherding proto 64. I'm not that
knowledgeable about it. There's two guys on the 'Net who are -- Jeff
English in Freight Cars and Ron Sabestian. I doubt he's on this list or
he might have spoken up earlier. I will try to contact them and see
what's happening there.
cheers
--
Alex Binkley,
Hammond, Ontario, Canada
Group: S-Trains Message: 244 From: Paul Yorke Date: 10/29/1998
Subject: New Server location for S-Trains
Please visit S-Trains and help me find the bugs.
Some of the links will send you back to gate.net server so pay attention
to the URL location.
Please let me know where any problems show up.
The new URL will be http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/
We 'out grew' our old location.

--
Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl.
American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers
http://www.gate.net/~yorke (alt e-mail paulyork@...)
Group: S-Trains Message: 245 From: PortLines@xxx.xxx Date: 10/29/1998
Subject: Re: Airchime vibrators
<<<The vibrators are a variation of what used to be used in 6 volt power

supplies for car radios in the 1950's. More authoritive sound can be had by a

careful hand selection of a vintage sample, but this is a trial process.

Those that are handy (and harty) can atttempt to cut and old can vibrator open

and play with the gap adjustment.



Hope that this is not too discouraging. I have acquired some vibrators that

do result in a decent sound, given the limitations of the beast.>>>


BTW, we have been pretty successful at repairing vibrators that don't work.
Last month, I tested 35 vibrators which I had on hand. Of the 35, 33 failed to
work properly..........either no sound, poor sound, or they slowed the engine
when operated. Of the 33 bad ones, we successfully repaired 31 of them!
Cost for such repair: $10 each, plus $2 return shipping.........So don't throw
them out when they don't work!
Doug
Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)
Port Lines Hobby Supply
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Port Lines @ aol.com http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 246 From: Alex Binkley Date: 10/29/1998
Subject: proto64
Hi gang:
Good news. Keith Thompson has offered to take on shepherding a proto 64
group. A bit of time back, Richard Snook said he had some info a proto
64 as well. Richard, if I'm right, could you communicate with Keith
about this.
Also Paul Yorke said he could set up a spot or something for us. could
you check that out? thanks.
also for modern prototype, let's hold till we hear from Richard Bailey.
I think we should just keep it and proto 64 as informal discussion
groups until we hear from him and see how many we are.
Besides Keith and I, there is Hilary Smith, Arthur Armstrong, Kelvin
White who are interested in one or the other or both. there's a couple
of others but I don't have the names right now. bloody useless memory.
However if there's anyone on the list who's interested in proto 64,
contact Keith directly. If modern, let me know.
Meanwhile for all your Flyer guys, we want stick with S trains and we
don't want you to feel excluded. I for one don't always know what you're
talking about but we as Red Greene, says we're all in this together.
cheers

--
Alex Binkley,
Hammond, Ontario, Canada
Group: S-Trains Message: 247 From: Paul Yorke Date: 10/30/1998
Subject: Grade
I tried several grades before I ended up with this one. It takes me
about 13 feet of track to rise 4.5 inches.
That is (4.5inchs/(13feet*12inches))/100[percent] or (4.5/156)/100 or
2.88% . Any steeper that that and you will be limited to very short
trains or only using pullmore wheels.

--
Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl.
American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers
http://www.gate.net/~yorke (alt e-mail paulyork@...)
Group: S-Trains Message: 248 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 10/30/1998
Subject: Railsound B-unit chassis match
Does anyone know if you can put a 471 shell on 4811X/2X chassis? Thanks.
Group: S-Trains Message: 249 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 10/30/1998
Subject: choo choo build up
I'm refurbishing a multi-cast type II 302. So far so good, its running and
looking good again. But I've noticed that after running it awhile the
choo-choo piston (carbon graphite) rubs off at spots inside the cylinder,
eventually creating a build up on the cylinder walls. This in turn creates
drag on the motor at different phases of each stroke. When I first opened
the unit I thought someone had used heavy automotive axle grease on the
choo-choo unit (silly), but it must have been this build up. I've tried
cleaning and lightly sanding (1000 grit) the cylinder walls, lightly
sanding the piston, checking the alignment of the bell crank, and putting
some powdered graphite lubricant in there, but sure enough after 10-20 laps
the build up start to show up again. Does anyone have any experience in
this? Remedies? Thanks.
Group: S-Trains Message: 250 From: David Dewey Date: 10/30/1998
Subject: Re: choo choo build up
David,
Hmm, This is a new one. Maybe you have a faulty piston?? If you've
polished the wear area w/1000 grit paper, and it's not rough, it shouldn't
give any problems. The graphite/carbon piston should be self-lubricating. I
have seen where graphite can pick up moisture in the air and make things
gummy (on player piano slide valves) maybe this is your problem?? Try
cleaning everything with tuner cleaner or go to an auto store and get some
BrakeKleen or ElectriKleen--but be very careful w/ the stuff, it will mess
up paint, some plastics, and definately Gilbert lettering/numbering! Anyway,
clean the smoke unit piston and piston chamber with it until they're
'squeeky clean' and give it another go. If that doesn't do it, I'd change
the piston first. (OK, probably a 50/50 chance of which componant to change
first!<G>)
Let us know what develops!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 251 From: Dennis Back Date: 10/30/1998
Subject: 742 Reversing handcar problem
Well I found my reversing handcar. But....it only works in one
direction. Doug Peck was nice enough to check one of his and
confirmed that the AF manual wiring for this is wrong, which I kinda
knew. My wiring is the way Doug says it's supposed to be.

I tried switching the wires to the brushes and it does then run in the
opposite direction (having left the switch in the same position as
before). This leads me to believe that the problem is in the (very
crude) Flyer switch.

As I said...it runs in one direction, but then when I slide the
switch...the armature is energized, but feels frozen...and doesn't
want to go either way...it growls when I try to prod it either way.

I don't want to mess up the switch any more than it is. Any ideas
folks?

Thanks,
Dennis Back
Miami, Fl.
Group: S-Trains Message: 252 From: Ken Zieska Date: 10/30/1998
Subject: Friday Report
Well guys, thanks for all the feedback on the my monitor challenge.
Marilyn has enjoyed them and now realizes that all of my S train friends
are a bit "off track" and it is not just the Pines and Prairies S Scale
Workshop gang.
I am interested in the proto 64 discussion so put me on the list and I
will lurk around and add what ever I can.
Thanks again and keep those S trains running.
Ken Z.
Group: S-Trains Message: 253 From: alice beachy Date: 10/31/1998
Subject: 471 Shell
About the question of railsounds in a 471 shell. A few years ago I took
a 470 shell and put it on a Lionel power chassis. It fit fine and runs
great. So I took a 471 shell and put it on a railsounds chassis. It
also worked well but I began to feel a railsounds 50's era B unit was a
little much, so I substituted a Lionel electronic horn B chassis. I
liked that better and it also works great. If you are a collector this
is obviously not for you. But if you like to operate at shows as I do,
this is great. As was stated earlier this week the Gilbert Air Chime
Whistles left much to be desired. But with the technology of today we
have not only railsounds but electronic horns, the great steam sound in
the AM pacific, and soon to come diesel sounds in the SHS F-3. Wayne
Beachy
Group: S-Trains Message: 254 From: LEAHY RUTH A Date: 10/31/1998
Subject: Choo-Choo Unit
I am considering buying a "283" Pacific, but the choo-choo unit does not
appear to work. Visually I do not see a problem. Is there something I
should be looking for here, since I have never encountered this before?
Any advise would be appreciated on how to repair this problem.

Mike Leahy
Group: S-Trains Message: 255 From: David Dewey Date: 10/31/1998
Subject: Re: Choo-Choo Unit
Mike,
Non-functioning smoke units are common. Sometimes it's a simple
solution: Spray some WD-40 down the stack, let it soak a bit, then 'turn up
the power' and see if it will start smoking. This works if the problem is
gelled smoke fluid plugging the wick. If this doesn't work, then it's
possible the heater unit is bad or the wick has burned or broken or you may
only have a spider nest in the choo choo unit. This requires dismantling the
loco, unsoldering the wires to the smoke unit and measuring the resistance
(35-45 Ohms is within fac. specs.) If this measures OK, try the spray method
again (Different people try different fluids, you want a solvent that will
'cut' the smoke fluid, but won't start a fire!) Also check to see if you can
blow air through the unit, sometimes a spider will build a nest at the
Choo-Choo chamber opening. If none of these work, then it's time to replace
the wick and heater, not an expensive job, but one that requires care (and
in my situation, a pair of magnifiers!)
Hmm, OK, I'll try to give a description of the operation, if I forget
anything someone else on the list will point it out!
First, I like to remove all the solder on the smoke unit wiring lugs
(this is true for both versions, BTW, these instructions are for the SIB
versions) The heater wire will not solder, it is just wrapped around the
lugs, and you will be able to see that with the solder removed. Unwrap the
wires so they are free from the lugs, you may now unscrew the top and lift
it off without disturbing the 'guts'. There are two versions of this smoke
unit; by this point in time, either can be found in any loco, if they have
ever been repaired or replaced. One version has a separate bottom piece
(which usually leaks!) and the heater is crosswise to the wheels (we'll call
this one A); the other version has a cast bottom and the heater is parallel
with the wheels (we'll call this one B). In either version, the heater is
insulated from the unit body with a cardboard liner, which can be fragile!
Now that the top is off, inspect the unit to see what happened. (If you had
no Ohm reading, obviously the wire is broken somewhere, if you had a
reading, it's likely the wick will be burnt). Also look for a little white
spider nest in the chamber between the choo choo sound plate and the body.
If you had a good ohm reading, and the wick isn't burnt, but you find the
nest, you can probably reassemble the unit (well, ya gotta get rid of the
nest first!)!
On the B version, all the guts will just lift out, with care. On the A
type, it's best to remove the bottom cover, pry out the wick, and cut it off
where it goes through the casting to the top chamber, you can then carefully
lift out the heater from the top. On the A type, the cardboard may stay
inside the body, that's fine, just leave it there!
On both versions, blow through the piston area to see if you get 'choo'
(you'll have to use your finger as a 'cover' for the little choo-choo
chamber) and that the small hole into the chamber is clear. The cardboard on
the A type can sometimes shift and cover the hole. Clean out the unit, you
may want to lightly sand the sealing surface by placing it against a flat
surface with some fine (600 grit or finer) sandpaper (Auto paint stores have
this to 2000 grit) but this is only if you find it corroded.
The new wick/heater must be handled carefully, you don't want any of the
heater wire crossing over itself, or it will burn out quickly, if not
immediately! If you are working on a type A unit, you will want the wick
ends to be stiff, some come with a 'glue' already on them. This is so you
can start them through the tiny holes in the bottom of the heater chamber!
If your wick isn't glued on the ends, you can do this yourself with some
white glue (maybe gel type super glue, I haven't tried it--but you don't
want the glue traveling up the wick!) or, with patience, I have just twirled
the ends in my mouth like a painter setting his brush--if you can get the
wick to come to a point so you can guide it through the hole, that's all you
need.
OK, A type repair: Wick is started through both holes, carefully pull
both sides through until the heater element is centered in the chamber area.
You don't want it against the bottom, nor near the top, either spot will
cause failure; one burns the cardboard, the other burns the lid! (That's
what makes that bulge in the cover seen on some units.) Ideally it is just
in the air stream from the piston chamber. Use a magnifier and check that no
wires are crossed! Cut off the glued area of the ends and coil the wick in
the bottom chamber, it will fill it! Here's where I 'cheat' a bit; I use a
very small amount of 'gasket in a can' to seal the bottom chamber, as I
can't seem to get the factory gaskets to not leak! A leaky unit will oil
your rails, but it's not the right kind of oil!! See Roger Hinds for the
rail oil--disclaimer, I have no economic interest in this 'plug'!<G>. Back
to the repair:
B type: cut your old wick and remove it from the cardboard chamber, thread
the new wick through the holes, and as in the A type, center the wick so it
isn't too high or too low. Coil the wick ends in the unit and check to see
that there is room for the cardboard chamber to fit, and for air to pass
through the chamber, you may have to cut off some of the wick to do this.
Again, look for crossed wires.
Both: Now you can fit the cover on, I like to add some smoke fluid at this
time, to 'prime' the wick. Feed the wires through the lug holes, check that
nothing changed while placing the cover on (This is sort of like looking to
see if the refrigerator light goes out!). Tighten the screws (you may use a
little gasket stuff here too, if you're game). Check the coil Ohm reading,
if it's OK, then wrap the wires around the lugs, resolder and test.
If you did everything right, you will have a smoke unit that now will
chase everyone out of the room!
Trust me; the job becomes easier with practice!
S'incerely,
David Dewey
Watch the Railroad watch and repeat after me, "The future is in S, the
future is in S, the future is in S, the future...."
Group: S-Trains Message: 256 From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx Date: 10/31/1998
Subject: Vehicles
Eureka, sort of,
You may recall my huge disappointment
when I reported that the Mint Editions
'56 Ford PU is larger than the other ME
pickups, and just TOO large to pass for
S scale.

This week, I found a MATCHBOX '56
Ford PU with excellent detail (except
for the usual crummy wheels - CD
models, hear that?). And as near as
I can tell, this PU is dead on 1:64th.
The inside length of the PU bed is 6',
the width of the cab across the front
fenders is 6', and it stands about
6' high. All the right numbers for 1:64.
Also, these numbers match the size
of my 1:24th scale '56 Ford,

Now, I can find a new home for all those
undersizel Hot Wheels '56 Ford PU's
I bought a few years ago (the ones with
the motor bikes in the back - so I can
still make use of the bikes).

The downside of this is that the Matchbox
truck is a bit smaller than most of the other
ME 40's - 50's pickups. The '50 CHEV
is an exception; it appears to be right on,
but the Fords all seem oversize, PU
beds are 7' rather than 6' long.
Can anybody find a prototype
to verify these dimensions?
The height also? I'll report any
dimensions that I find.

Ted Larson mhrreast@...
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/government/nasaPhotos.shtm

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Group: S-Trains Message: 257 From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx Date: 10/31/1998
Subject: P:64
Well guys, I think I have read all the notes about
Proto:64 and/or modern modeling, and I am confused.

Does the discussion of starting a SIG(s) mean that
people think those topics can't be discussed on
S-Trains? I would certainly hope that they ARE
discussed here. They are part of S modeling.

It would be nice to know who all has common
interests, for example I am not terribly interested
in modern modeling, but I am interested in
maximizing the accuracy of my work; both in
fidelity to scale, and fidelity to prototype, with a
bit of freelance thrown in (the MHRR won't be
abandoned).

So the offer of website space for posting standards
and parts availability
info is a great idea, but I'm not in favor of taking
our discussion off-line from S Trains, unless we
become so overwhelming in content that there
is need to have a separate e-mail forum.

AND if I misunderstood, I'll take that as good news.

Ted Larson mhrreast@...
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/government/nasaPhotos.shtm

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Group: S-Trains Message: 258 From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx Date: 10/31/1998
Subject: Farm Eqpt
Need some low cost farm implements
for a farm scene, flat car load, or
tractor dealer?
You don't need to pay ERTL prices.

I have found some private label stuff;
At Eckerd Drug it is Redbox Dynacast;
At a local liquidator, it is Motormax;
same stuff though; $1-2 each.
Tractors ave VERY generic, but the
implements look good.
I have a hay conditioner and LNG
tank. Photos on packaging also show
sileage wagon, corn chopper, disk,
and grain wagon.

A good non-farm use for the LNG tank
wagon is to take the tank off and use
it for an LPG tank at a business.

Ted Larson mhrreast@...
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/government/nasaPhotos.shtm

________________________________________________________________
Get secure free e-mail that you don't need Web access to use
from Juno, the world's second largest online service.
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Group: S-Trains Message: 259 From: Donald P. Abrams Date: 10/31/1998
Subject: Re: Choo-Choo
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML>
I'll second David's suggestions on the "sticky" choo-choo. Make sure the
cylinder is clean 7 smooth. Clean the cylinder and piston with alcohol.
<BR><B><U>NEVER </U></B> lubricate the cylinder/piston. Make sure
the pinion on the spur gear and the connecting rod (where it attaches to
the gear) are lubricated (I use Hob-E-Lube gear oil). I have seen pistons
get so worn that they bind in the cylinder. A lot of play between the cylinder
and piston isn't good. Time for a new piston, it's the softest of the two
parts unless you have one with a metal piston.
<BR>Remove the motor armature and turn things by hand to check for binds.
Probably lubrication created a problem and the piston is now undersized.
Make sure the hole in the end or the cylinder isn't blocked -- the air
has to excape!
<P>Don</HTML>
Group: S-Trains Message: 260 From: Tom Rolfsmeyer Date: 11/1/1998
Subject: What is a Triple crown TTUX?
Gentlemen would you be so kind as to educated a fairly new person to the
S guage world about the 48511 Triple crown TTUX manufactured by Lionel.
I don't have a reference book for Lionel manufactured AF. If one exist I
would be willing to purchase one. Does any one know of such a book or
catalog?

Thanks


Tom Rolfsmeyer

PS I really enjoy the onelist and check through it every day. It has
been a source of information and enlightenment about My new S guage
hobby.
Group: S-Trains Message: 261 From: PatnDave Date: 11/1/1998
Subject: MPSM SIG
After reading the comments made here on this list concerning the MPSM SIG
and on Proto:64, I think it's time I speak on my behalf. I must admit to
being rather surprised but then, I suppose I shouldn't be either. It's much
easier to communicate this way than by pen and paper. After all, it takes
too much time to write and so much of the essence is lost during the time
it takes for the snail mail. And it's very expensive while this is free.
When I was doing the newsletter Cab Signals, I often wondered if anybody
was actually reading it. I'd rarely receive any response from anyone except
from the usual one or two friends that were made and yet never actually got
to meet. It appeared certain that my time and efforts were being wasted and
in most ways, it was. Getting news and information is nearly impossible and
what I did manage to get product wise, was merely redundant to any railroad
modeling magazine and they of coarse have the better connections, so why
bother.
Then there was the article on Proto:64 by Randy Wilson. It was in response
to several questions asking what it was. Wow, did I get response on that
one! All negative, but reaction just the same. It seemed to cause fear and
panic rather than interest. Fear that someone was about to change the
standards on us...again! And it would be all my fault! A very
misunderstood subject! I wish Proto scale modeling were my idea, I'd be
proud of it!
Anyway, during this obvious declining interest, other events of a personal
nature were also taking place further effecting my view point. So, after
all this time and only one letter of interest as to the position of the
MPSM SIG, I thought it best to step down and take a back seat. Hopefully
someone else might do better or I'll have no alternative but to contact the
NMRA and have the SIG terminated, if they haven't already done so by now.
This is not to say I'm totally out of the hobby but from my comfy hiback
chair, I'd still like to follow what's going on.
Dave Bailey...Still and always will be a Modern PROTO:64 type 'S'cale
Person.
Group: S-Trains Message: 262 From: David Dewey Date: 11/1/1998
Subject: Re: What is a Triple crown TTUX?
Tom,
First, the Greenberg's pocket guide for S or AF now lists Lionel
production, SHS & AM too.
The Tripple Crown TTUX is an 0-27 car with flyer trucks under it. It
takes more side clearance and tends to be tipy. (OK, this is IMHO and based
on my friend Mike's experience). While the club that first had them produced
has made much noise about them being "only a *little* bit off--1/8" here,
1/4" there, in S that's a LOT! I'm not certain, but I suspect the trailers
on these cars are also oversized. I know they make the rest of the AF stuff
look tiny.
Scale sized TTUX cars are available from AM.
I'm a little in the dark on this stuff, as I stick to the '40s-'50s era,
but I used to work for a company that rebuilt the real ones, as they had
some sort of design flaw (I was in the other side of the shop, couldn't tell
you what it was, required a lot of them coming in for the retro-fit.)
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 263 From: PortLines@xxx.xxx Date: 11/1/1998
Subject: Re: Smoke units
Repairing smoke units is one of the "Repair Clinics" found on our website.
Hope it helps! We welcome topics for additional "clinics".
Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)
Port Lines Hobby Supply
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Port Lines @ aol.com http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 264 From: Keith Thompson Date: 11/1/1998
Subject: Re: Vehicles
Hi All,

I've posted a picture of a repainted and re-wheeled Matchbox 1956 Ford at
http://www.wolfenet.com/~kthompso/MB56Ford.jpg. At first I thought this
truck was too small assuming the propaganda on the Mint Edition '53 ford
was correct and it was 1:64th scale. However, now I agree with Ted and I'm
convinced the Matchbox truck is closer to scale. It's cheaper too! The only
bad thing about the MB Ford is that you have to cannibalize a ME '65 Ford
for the wheels. Keith Thompson in Seattle.

At 01:02 PM 10/31/98 EST, mhrreast@... wrote:
>From: mhrreast@...
>
>
>Eureka, sort of,
>You may recall my huge disappointment
>when I reported that the Mint Editions
>'56 Ford PU is larger than the other ME
>pickups, and just TOO large to pass for
>S scale.
>
>This week, I found a MATCHBOX '56
>Ford PU with excellent detail (except
>for the usual crummy wheels - CD
>models, hear that?). And as near as
>I can tell, this PU is dead on 1:64th.
>The inside length of the PU bed is 6',
>the width of the cab across the front
>fenders is 6', and it stands about
>6' high. All the right numbers for 1:64.
>Also, these numbers match the size
>of my 1:24th scale '56 Ford,
>
>Now, I can find a new home for all those
>undersizel Hot Wheels '56 Ford PU's
>I bought a few years ago (the ones with
>the motor bikes in the back - so I can
>still make use of the bikes).
>
>The downside of this is that the Matchbox
>truck is a bit smaller than most of the other
>ME 40's - 50's pickups. The '50 CHEV
>is an exception; it appears to be right on,
>but the Fords all seem oversize, PU
>beds are 7' rather than 6' long.
>Can anybody find a prototype
>to verify these dimensions?
>The height also? I'll report any
>dimensions that I find.
>
>Ted Larson mhrreast@...
>http://www.kodak.com/US/en/government/nasaPhotos.shtm
>
>________________________________________________________________
>Get secure free e-mail that you don't need Web access to use
>from Juno, the world's second largest online service.
>Download your free software at http://www.juno.com/getit.b.html.
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Did you ever want to participate in video chats, send real-time video
>and video mail? Now you can, AND at a super low price--ONLY $89.95!
>http://orders.xoom.com/zvc/emzvc921
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>For information contact Paul Yorke (yorke@...) or visit
http://www.gate.net/~yorke/smail.htm
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 265 From: Alex Binkley Date: 11/1/1998
Subject: p64 and modern groups
Ted Larson wondered whether we would take the Proto 64 and modern
discussion off S-Trains. Not as far as I know. Paul Yorke has offered to
create separate discussions boards but I would we would to keep S-Trains
up to date on anything we do.
cheers
--
Alex Binkley,
Hammond, Ontario, Canada
Group: S-Trains Message: 266 From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx Date: 11/1/1998
Subject: '56 Ford Tires
Keith talks about cannibalizing another vehicle for
decent tires and wheels. Has anybody tried the
cast replacement tire/wheel sets that used to
be available through Steam Depot (perhaps these
are the ones from the manufacturer in New
Zealand?).

Ted Larson mhrreast@...
http://www.kodak.com/

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
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Group: S-Trains Message: 267 From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx Date: 11/1/1998
Subject: Trucks
We Love Our Toys is a toy catalog put
our by Surplus Tractor Parts Corp.
1-888-toyworld
www.toyworldcatalog.com

It has a variety of S scale trucks, tractors,
construction equipment,
race cars, including some MODERN semis;
auto carrier, van, Sea Land container,
grain, Exxon tank.

Ted Larson mhrreast@...
http://www.kodak.com/

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Group: S-Trains Message: 268 From: Paul Yorke Date: 11/1/1998
Subject: More new Stuff
I added some new stuff to my new site.
Visit http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/links/features.htm to see what..
Here is a hint TTUX vs TOF, David Dewey 'blowing smoke', and Signal
bridge phase one.

Enjoy

--
Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl.
American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)
Group: S-Trains Message: 269 From: Richard Snook Date: 11/1/1998
Subject: Re: trucks
Hi all

These sound like some "Road Haulers" I grabbed some a few years back; the Prime movers are fairly decent, the car transporter is quite well done actually ,the tanker could use a repaint( they all can obviously) and some decent decals,and the Race Hauler needs new doors, then its a reasonable Van. As usual I picked up a few at a general merchandise close-out house and by the time the next pay check came they had all gone.Mine were made in China ( isn't everyhting) Of note the wheelsets on mine are pretty good, i.e. they dont look "hot wheels" like. The cars off the transporter make good junk yard stuff!!

cheers

:-)) Richard
Group: S-Trains Message: 270 From: Richard Snook Date: 11/1/1998
Subject: Re: Trucks
sure sounds like they are indedd different, as the tractors on mine are not COE but look like Kennies(badge is a bit small and indecipherable), but could be anything Atkinson,White who knows some sort of generic incarnation!! Good to see there are even more usable trucks out there and cheap, its expensive enough putting trains on tracks let alone trucks on roads( and there is more of them!!) Did the ones your mentioning have cloured plastic lenses representing tail-lights??

cheers

:-)) Richard
-----Original Message-----
From: mhrreast@... [SMTP:mhrreast@...]
Sent: Monday, November 02, 1998 11:39 AM
To: richard.snook@...
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Trucks


On Mon, 2 Nov 1998 11:56:19 +1000 Richard Snook
<richard.snook@...> writes:
>Hi al
>
>These sound like some "Road Haulers" I grabbed some a few years back;
>the Prime movers are fairly decent, the car transporter is quite well
>done actually ,the tanker could use a repaint( they all can obviously)
>and some decent decals,and the Race Hauler needs new doors, then its a

These are listed as made by YATMING. The Road Hauler name is not
mentioned. There is not a race hauler shown.

>reasonable Van. As usual I picked up a few at a general merchandise
>close-out house and by the time the next pay check came they had all
>gone.Mine were made in China ( isn't everyhting) Of note the wheelsets
>on mine are pretty good, i.e. they dont look "hot wheels" like. The
>cars off the transporter make good junk yard stuff!!

The transporter has no vehicles with it.
Sooooooooooooo, I'm not sure if these are the same as what you
found, or something different.
The cabs are all COE or conventional Kenworths.
>
>cheers
>
>:-)) Richard
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: mhrreast@... [SMTP:mhrreast@...]
>Sent: Monday, November 02, 1998 10:08 AM
>To: S-Trains@onelist.com
>Subject: [S-Trains] Trucks
>
>From: mhrreast@...
>
>
>We Love Our Toys is a toy catalog put
>our by Surplus Tractor Parts Corp.
>1-888-toyworld
>www.toyworldcatalog.com
>
>It has a variety of S scale trucks, tractors,
>construction equipment,
>race cars, including some MODERN semis;
>auto carrier, van, Sea Land container,=20
>grain, Exxon tank.

Ted Larson mhrreast@...
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/corp/features/space/photoSpace.shtml
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/corp/features/space/todayPictures.shtml

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Group: S-Trains Message: 271 From: Keith Thompson Date: 11/1/1998
Subject: Re: '56 Ford Tires
Hi Ted,

I've got the tire/wheel casting from RailMaster and they're notthe ones
from Steam Depot. The RailMaster wheels/tires are more like you'd find on a
WWII Jeep. -- Keith Thompson in Seattle

At 06:56 PM 11/1/98 EST, mhrreast@... wrote:
>From: mhrreast@...
>
>
>Keith talks about cannibalizing another vehicle for
>decent tires and wheels. Has anybody tried the
>cast replacement tire/wheel sets that used to
>be available through Steam Depot (perhaps these
>are the ones from the manufacturer in New
>Zealand?).
>
>Ted Larson mhrreast@...
>http://www.kodak.com/
>
>___________________________________________________________________
>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
>Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
>or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Did you ever want to participate in video chats, send real-time video
>and video mail? Now you can, AND at a super low price--ONLY $89.95!
>http://orders.xoom.com/zvc/emzvc921
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>For information contact Paul Yorke (yorke@...) or visit
http://www.gate.net/~yorke/smail.htm
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 272 From: Keith Thompson Date: 11/1/1998
Subject: Fifties Ford F-100 Facts
Hi Gang,

Recently we've been kibitzing on the size of '50s era Ford trucks. I though
I'd share the dimensional data published on the breed in Robert Ackerson's
"Ford F100/F150 Pickup," book. Here goes by model era and style:

Pre-1953 F-1
Overall length, 188.78"
Wheelbase, 114"
Overall height, 75.64"
Overall width, 75.94"
Front tread, 58.08"
Rear tread, 60.0"
Cargo Capacity, 45 cuft.
Exterior box length, 6.5'
Load Length, 78.06"
Load Width 49"
Load Height 20.35"

1953-1956 F-100
Overall length, 189.12"
Wheelbase, 110"
Overall height, 75.3"
Overall width, 71.3"
Front tread, 60.58"
Rear tread, 60.0"
Cargo Capacity, 45 cuft.
Exterior box length, 6.5'
Load Length, 77.9"
Load Width 49"
Load Height 20.3"

1957-1960 F-100 Flareside 6.5' Bed
Wheelbase, 110"
Box Length, 78"
Box Width 49"
Box Height 20.3" (to top of sides)
Box Height 17.6" (to top of tailgate)
Cargo Capacity, 45 cuft.

1957-1960 F-100 Flareside 8' Bed
Wheelbase, 118"
Box Length, 96"
Box Width 54"
Box Height 22.1" (to top of sides)
Box Height 19.4" (to top of tailgate)
Cargo Capacity, 65.4 cuft.

1957-1960 F-100 Styleside 6.5' Bed
Wheelbase, 110"
Box Length, 76.44"
Box Width 73.2"
Width between wheel housings, 49"
Box Height 19.09" (to top of sides)
Cargo Capacity, 56.05 cuft.

1957-1960 F-100 Styleside 8' Bed
Wheelbase, 118"
Box Length, 94.44"
Box Width 73.2"
Width between wheel housings, 49"
Box Height 19.09" (to top of sides)
Cargo Capacity, 70.55 cuft.


Keith Thompson in Seattle
Group: S-Trains Message: 273 From: Alex Binkley Date: 11/2/1998
Subject: Modern S
Hi Dave:
I don't know if you saw all of the notes during the last week or so
about modern and proto S. Anyway there is interest amongst those on
S-Trains in both and I have written you for the mailing list etc for the
group. We are going to carry on two subsets of S-trains covering proto 64
and modern prototype. we'd be glad to have you involved in both.
keith.thompson@... is handling proto 64 and I'm doing the modern
stuff. there's a number of earlier era guys who are also interested in
proto 64.
perhaps using the net will make it easier as we can exchange info and
ideas quickly rather than being locked into producing a newsletter.
except what to do about those who are not on-line.
cheers
--
Alex Binkley,
Hammond, Ontario, Canada
Group: S-Trains Message: 274 From: Bill & Diane Wade Date: 11/2/1998
Subject: Re: MPSM / P:64 SIGs
There are several challenges with a SIG. One is finding the members.
Another is that someone must maintain an address database. And then
there is the printing and mailing efforts and costs. The web page is an
excellent tool, as is this mailing list, for SIG info distribution, but
then not every modeler is online.

Please remember that we publish a SCALE magazine dedicated to S that
goes out to over 1,000 folks every other month.

If someone is willing to write and dig up some photos, we are willing to
dedicated space to a Modern and a P:64 modeling column in each issue.
This could be a forum for exchanging ideas, promoting the concepts, and
educating those who may not be aware of the issues.

Who wants to be the first with a by-line?

Take care,
Bill
--
=============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================
Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer
Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218
B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com
S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com
Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 275 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 11/2/1998
Subject: choo-choo build up
After disassembling and cleaning the cylinder and piston again, this time
with tape head cleaner (isopropynol type, safe for plastics), it looks as
though the problem of heavy gummy piston deposits is over. The only thing
I can chalk the original problem up to would be either someone did at one
time lube the piston, or since this engine is especially smoky perhaps
after years of use it "smoked its own smoke" enough to have created some
build up in the cylinder. Thanks to all for your responses and pointers.
Group: S-Trains Message: 276 From: David Dewey Date: 11/2/1998
Subject: Re: choo-choo build up
David H.
Thanks for letting us know 'the cure' Might be a good idea to add this
info to the smoke unit repair FAQ!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 277 From: jbs@xxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) Date: 11/2/1998
Subject: Parts Needed
I am looking for several items for repairing two of my older engines.

Plastic air horns for a 470
Rear truck wheels for a 283

Thanks in advance for any help or suggestions .

John Stephenson
Group: S-Trains Message: 278 From: Arthur Armstrong Date: 11/2/1998
Subject: Re: MPSM / P:64 SIGs
Bill & Diane Wade wrote:
>
> If someone is willing to write and dig up some photos, we are willing to
> dedicated space to a Modern and a P:64 modeling column in each issue.
> This could be a forum for exchanging ideas, promoting the concepts, and
> educating those who may not be aware of the issues.
>
This sounds like a good solution to me - it will reach all those already
interested in S scale, provides hard copy for permanence and reference,
and doesn't ignore those not on the net.

The problem is finding anyone with knowledge of P:64 history and issues.

I know there have been people interested in this before I came along -
please contribute something to Bill so we can all get together.

Art Armstrong
aarmstro@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 279 From: kelvin white Date: 11/2/1998
Subject: MPSM - Born again.
In message <909998728.12520@onelist.com>, S-Trains@onelist.com writes
>Message: 2


>
> Date: Sun, 1 Nov 1998 10:47:53 -0500
> From: "PatnDave" <patndave@...>
>Subject: MPSM SIG
Hi Dave
Its good to hear from you, and to know that you havn't sunk without
trace - there are occasions when personal circumstances, burnout,
disillusion, mean that you have to take a back seat. I've been there
myself, there is no shame in saying enough for now. Look back on what
you achieved and take a well earned round of applause.

If I may comment on some aspects of your note:

>After reading the comments made here on this list concerning the MPSM SIG
>and on Proto:64, I think it's time I speak on my behalf. I must admit to
>being rather surprised but then,
....
>When I was doing the newsletter Cab Signals, I often wondered if anybody
>was actually reading it.
.... Yes I read it and enjoyed, and several leads and letters to authors
resulted as a consequence of the MPSM NL.
>I'd rarely receive any response from anyone except
>from the usual one or two friends that were made and yet never actually got
>to meet. It appeared certain that my time and efforts were being wasted and
>in most ways, it was.
I'm sorry that you came to this conclusion - having edited (and wrote
most of) several similar style newsletters, I know what you mean and how
you feel.

>Getting news and information is nearly impossible and
>what I did manage to get product wise, was merely redundant to any railroad
>modeling magazine and they of coarse have the better connections, so why
>bother.

However without a SIG creating interest and presurising - It is case of
relying on the internal motivation of the manufacturers.

>Anyway, during this obvious declining interest, other events of a personal
>nature were also taking place further effecting my view point. So, after
>all this time and only one letter of interest as to the position of the
>MPSM SIG, I thought it best to step down and take a back seat.

> Hopefully
>someone else might do better or I'll have no alternative but to contact the
>NMRA and have the SIG terminated, if they haven't already done so by now.
>This is not to say I'm totally out of the hobby but from my comfy hiback
>chair, I'd still like to follow what's going on.

I believe Alex has already written to you for the membership list, I
will be fully supportive on bringing new life into MPSM and a P64 group,
Paul Yorke is supportive - the future is bright - there is a need to
decide whether the group is Email only or returns to the paper world as
well, those discussions will come.

In the meanwhile enjoy your comfy chair, and we hope to see you back in
the full of the hobby, as and when you are ready to be.

With Best Regards
>.
--
Kelvin White
Oxford England
Group: S-Trains Message: 280 From: Mark Preman Date: 11/2/1998
Subject: November List-American Flyer Trains For Sale
Dear S-Folks,
For those of you that still like to "dabble" in
vintage Gilbert stock, the November "For Sale" list
has been posted for your reading (and ordering)
enjoyment. This list has a number of boxed sets for
you collector guys.

At our house, the train platform is brought out from
its hiding place for cleaning and testing and
potential additions on Thanksgiving weekend.

The list is resident at:
http://members.tripod.com/~amerflyer

Mark B. Preman
Group: S-Trains Message: 281 From: Neimanis,V. [NCR] Date: 11/2/1998
Subject: Re: S-Trains - Grades
I too have found that AF was not really designed for climbing grades. I can
confirm that it takes 13 feet to rise 4.5 inches and that the engines prefer
a straight climb that means 26 feet for an up and down! Not many of us have
places where layouts can accommodate that.

Do those who use grades have any special techniques to shorten these massive
distances?

V. Neimanis
Ottawa, Canada
v.neimanis@...


Date: Fri, 30 Oct 1998 06:30:42 -0500
> From: Paul Yorke <yorke@...>
> Subject: Grade
>
> I tried several grades before I ended up with this one. It takes me
> about 13 feet of track to rise 4.5 inches.
> That is (4.5inchs/(13feet*12inches))/100[percent] or (4.5/156)/100 or
> 2.88% . Any steeper that that and you will be limited to very short
> trains or only using pullmore wheels.
>
> --
> Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl.
> American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers
> http://www.gate.net/~yorke (alt e-mail paulyork@...)
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 282 From: L Montgomery Date: 11/2/1998
Subject: Is There Any New Loco Suitable for 7 Year Old?
I'm putting up a Chrismas layout using my old AF stuff but I want my son to have his own brand new locomotive for running trains. Do you have any advice on what would be a good choice?

I have a cast metal steamer that seems virtually indestructible that I'll probably let him use if all the new stuff is too delicate. It doesn't go too fast.

BTW, my big lionel ZW transformer says it puts out 20 VAC whereas the small AF one says it outs out 17 VAC. Will running at 20 VAC harm anything?

TIA

Monty

---
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Outlaw Junk Email! Support HR 1748.



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Group: S-Trains Message: 283 From: Bill & Diane Wade Date: 11/2/1998
Subject: New Station Underway!
Howdy Friends,

Finally, a station that is bigger than the locomotive! This S scale
building is 16" x 7" over eaves and stands over 7" high. The depth of
the building is 11" when including the platform and rear sheds.

Due to the many requests, we have accelerated the schedule for the East
Broad Top Orbisonia Station in S scale. This monster will be one
fantastic kit. Correct, varying board widths, adhesive-backed shingles,
separate window sashes, and even the beading on the window frames!

And it will be a custom-made kit. Let us know if you want an earlier
version than 1955, as we are taking special orders for custom kits! Some
modifications may have additional charges. See the web page
http://www.btsrr.com/bts7127.htm for details on the pre-pay discount.

Extremely Limited Run! We expect to make no more than 25 of each
scale!!!
Reservations due right now!

Thanks!

Bill

--
=============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================
Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer
Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218
B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com
S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com
Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 284 From: Keith Thompson Date: 11/2/1998
Subject: P64 site
Hi All,

I wanted to let you know we now have a Proto 64 presence on the web at:
http://www.wolfenet.com/~kthompso/Proto64/. Be forewarned it's only a start
and I've got a lot more coming. However, I need your input on the standards
before we go too far. Please let me know what you think about the numbers
I've published and the way they're presented. I borrowed the chart from the
Proto:87 group's web page as a starter and added the information about the
code 110 and code 88 wheels.

I've also got to get some photos scanned in, including the obviously
missing prototype photo on the home page. Like I said, it's only a start
but I'm shooting for the 15th to have the majority of the content online.
Thanks in advance for your help.

I also know some of you might be worrying that the Proto 64 movement is
dividing an already small group -- at least I know I worry about this.
However, I think that in S scale we can make "divide and conquer" a good
thing as long as we remember where we came from (AF) and have a clear view
of where we're going (finescale modeling). After all, S scale is big enough
for all of us. -- Keith Thompson in Seattle
Group: S-Trains Message: 285 From: Richard Snook Date: 11/2/1998
Subject: Practitioner inclusion
Keith

Nice one, had only a chance to have quick look...but hey its good

Please include me as a practitioner, my "Siskiyou-Cadillac Country" a look at the SPin the N-Cal/Oregon area in the early to mid 90's, after CORP has taken over and up to that Sep13;...is about to commence construction, finally resolved what I would like on the modules to what I WILL get. As things progress I will take photos and zap them across, what is your preference JPEG???

Will finish my exploration of Proto 64 and supplies etc this week end, will send if you would like it for posting??

again nice job, will have a good look tomorrow

cheers

:-))Richard
Group: S-Trains Message: 286 From: Arthur Armstrong Date: 11/3/1998
Subject: Re: P64 site
Keith Thompson wrote:
>
> I wanted to let you know we now have a Proto 64 presence on the web at:
>
Many thanks for the effort. This will give us a focus and will make
P:64 a real possibility. I hope I can contribute something in the
future.

Art Armstrong
aarmstro@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 287 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 11/3/1998
Subject: funky tender weight
Anyone familiar with tender weights made out of what looks like a composite
of epoxy with hundreds of 1/8" diameter sheet metal discs mixed in? That's
what my 302 tender has. I'm used to the solid grey metal type. This
appears to be the right shape and weight. Just made of an odd material.
Is this a repro, or something Flyer did during the war? Thanks.
Group: S-Trains Message: 288 From: David Dewey Date: 11/3/1998
Subject: Re: funky tender weight
David H,
This is a very normal tender weight, made out of left-over metal
punchings, I think AC started doing this around '54, but I don't have any
documentation, just experience taking locos apart!
S'
David D.
PS Tooo many David's here!!! (Dave's not here, man......)<G>
Group: S-Trains Message: 289 From: JoeAWood@xxx.xxx Date: 11/3/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 34
In a message dated 11/3/98 4:45:19 AM EST, S-Trains@onelist.com writes:

<< Trains >>
Group: S-Trains Message: 290 From: JoeAWood@xxx.xxx Date: 11/3/1998
Subject: Re: Grades
You Guys seem to be forgetting on of the greatest railroad engineering feats,
"The Horshoe Curve" ,for years the railroad operating the main line has
added pusher engines to help get those large trains up over the mountains
those diesels sit and idle in Altoona PA until a large train comes thru then
they shift on to the line and help to push the loads over the mountains west,
they turn around in Cresson Pa and help to Brake large trains back downHeaded
East it sounds like you should consider running double headers or use pushers
to get the job done. JOEAWOOD @...
Group: S-Trains Message: 291 From: Chuck Smith Date: 11/3/1998
Subject: Re: funky tender weight
David_Horn@... wrote:
>
> From: David_Horn@...
>
> Anyone familiar with tender weights made out of what looks like a composite
> of epoxy with hundreds of 1/8" diameter sheet metal discs mixed in? That's
> what my 302 tender has. I'm used to the solid grey metal type. This
> appears to be the right shape and weight. Just made of an odd material.
> Is this a repro, or something Flyer did during the war? Thanks.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> For information contact Paul Yorke (yorke@...) or visit http://www.gate.net/~yorke/smail.htm
That's not a repro. I have some tenders from the factory that were bult
the same way, particularly Atlantics with the manual reverse switch on
the back of the cab.
--
"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers and the
S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith
Group: S-Trains Message: 292 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 11/3/1998
Subject: odd combos
I recently ran across two engine and tender combos that I couldn't find
documented, but looked totally factory and legitimate, especially when you
consider what ACG might have been doing during "transition" years with
inventories from one run to another. Please let me know if you've ever run
across these. Thanks.
1) 302, multi-cast, Type II slide rod mount, plastic tender, sans serif
lettering on tender, black weight on link coupler. I bought this one.
2) 350 Royal Blue, block letters on engine and tender, no B&O emblem on
tender, boiler hand rails only, no boiler-to-pilot hand rails (not even
drilled for them, although the little nubs for them on the pilot were cast
in place). Nice shape. Passed on this one, and bought a more "standard"
copy with both sets of handrails. But it made me curious.
Group: S-Trains Message: 293 From: Boul, Lawrence Date: 11/3/1998
Subject: Chama Models kits
Hello All

Anyone seen or know where I can get Chama kits (originally from Chama NM)?
These were vehicle kits produced in whitemetal some time ago. I understand
that the proprietor is deceased and previous attempts to source them have
come to nought.

I have seen the '34 Ford AA truck and it is very nice. Comparing it to the
Railmaster Exports example it is far ahead in detail level.

I would be interested in purchasing unbuilt kits second hand if anyone has
them surplus, but I'd really like to find an ongoing source for the local S
scalers here.

Cheers

Lawrence

_________________________________________ ............`oBo>
Dr Lawrence Boul
Senior Scientist
Technology consultant
Environmental Division Linc-Lab
Wool Research Organisation of New Zealand A Division of WRONZ
Developments Ltd.

phone: +64 3 325 2421 fax: +64 3 325 2717
snailmail: Private bag 4749, CHRISTCHURCH, NZ

Pronunciation guidance: That's 'Boul' as in 'Cool', NOT 'Coil', 'Cowl' or
'Coal'!! Thanks.
Group: S-Trains Message: 294 From: Rhett T. George Date: 11/3/1998
Subject: SW-9 wheels
- GreetingS -

The lil' SW-9 from SHS is a beauty. I put mine with its hi-rail
wheels on the layout and marveled at the wonderful range of speeds.
After about 20 minutes (due for lubrication), I noticed a bit of
stalling along the large loop of track, a mix of AF and Gargraves.
The layout operates on unfiltered DC, the loco is still set for
sequence reverse.

With the loco upside down for lubrication I found the wheels were
pitted. They were wiped down with mineral spirits to clean whatever
grease off that the track might have had. There was not much to
remove from the treads. The wheels rolling on the negative rail
were pitted more than those on the other side.

The AF locos with the usual tender pickup have not been troubled
like this. Has anyone else experienced a similar difficulty?

Cheer'S Rhett George
Group: S-Trains Message: 295 From: thompson@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxx Date: 11/3/1998
Subject: Re: Proto 64
Keith,

First, put me down as a player in the P64 space. I'm
modeling PRR NE corridor in the late '40s. Lots of
passenger service and heavy electrics. :)

2nd, i would like to have addressed the issue of
operating non-P64 equiptment in a P64 environment.
For example i can see outfitting all of my cars with
P64 wheels as well as building track according to
a P64 standard (if there is one for track) but i'd
find it unlikely that i'd (be able to) convert the
drivers on my GG1. Or lets say I would not like to
have to. I'm not sure how the other P*s handle this.

3rd, you mention on the P64 web page that Des Plains
carry code 88 and NWSL carry code 100. I assume that
these match the NMRA code 88/100 wheel standard (i.e.
has anyone measured them)? IMHO, Code 88 seems close
enough to P64 that we should just go with that.?

Nice web pages, by the way.


kbt

Keith B. Thompson (New Hampshire)
Group: S-Trains Message: 296 From: Keith Thompson Date: 11/3/1998
Subject: Re: Chama Models kits
Hi Lawrence,

These kits where produced by PBL when Bill Peter's operation was in
Chama, NM. I may be wrong but I think they were picked up by Rio Grande
Models. I'll check with my local Sn3 pusher, err.. dealer, and see what
the scoop is. -- Keith Thompson in Seattle

"Boul, Lawrence" wrote:
>
> From: "Boul, Lawrence" <Boul@...>
>
> Hello All
>
> Anyone seen or know where I can get Chama kits (originally from Chama NM)?
> These were vehicle kits produced in whitemetal some time ago. I understand
> that the proprietor is deceased and previous attempts to source them have
> come to nought.
>
> I have seen the '34 Ford AA truck and it is very nice. Comparing it to the
> Railmaster Exports example it is far ahead in detail level.
>
> I would be interested in purchasing unbuilt kits second hand if anyone has
> them surplus, but I'd really like to find an ongoing source for the local S
> scalers here.
>
> Cheers
>
> Lawrence
>
> _________________________________________ ............`oBo>
> Dr Lawrence Boul
> Senior Scientist
> Technology consultant
> Environmental Division Linc-Lab
> Wool Research Organisation of New Zealand A Division of WRONZ
> Developments Ltd.
>
> phone: +64 3 325 2421 fax: +64 3 325 2717
> snailmail: Private bag 4749, CHRISTCHURCH, NZ
>
> Pronunciation guidance: That's 'Boul' as in 'Cool', NOT 'Coil', 'Cowl' or
> 'Coal'!! Thanks.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
> service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
> http://www.onelist.com/advert.html for more information.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> For information contact Paul Yorke (yorke@...) or visit http://www.gate.net/~yorke/smail.htm
Group: S-Trains Message: 297 From: Keith Thompson Date: 11/3/1998
Subject: Re: Proto 64
Hi Keith,

1. I'll add you to our list of practioners.
2. Have you run the GG-1 through Proto 64 flangeways?
3. And, yes I've measured both to make sure they conform to the RP25
spec. -- Keith

"Keith B. Thompson - Sun" wrote:
>
> From: thompson@... (Keith B. Thompson - Sun)
>
> Keith,
>
> First, put me down as a player in the P64 space. I'm
> modeling PRR NE corridor in the late '40s. Lots of
> passenger service and heavy electrics. :)
>
> 2nd, i would like to have addressed the issue of
> operating non-P64 equiptment in a P64 environment.
> For example i can see outfitting all of my cars with
> P64 wheels as well as building track according to
> a P64 standard (if there is one for track) but i'd
> find it unlikely that i'd (be able to) convert the
> drivers on my GG1. Or lets say I would not like to
> have to. I'm not sure how the other P*s handle this.
>
> 3rd, you mention on the P64 web page that Des Plains
> carry code 88 and NWSL carry code 100. I assume that
> these match the NMRA code 88/100 wheel standard (i.e.
> has anyone measured them)? IMHO, Code 88 seems close
> enough to P64 that we should just go with that.?
>
> Nice web pages, by the way.
>
> kbt
>
> Keith B. Thompson (New Hampshire)
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
> service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
> http://www.onelist.com/advert.html for more information.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> For information contact Paul Yorke (yorke@...) or visit http://www.gate.net/~yorke/smail.htm
Group: S-Trains Message: 298 From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx Date: 11/3/1998
Subject: Re: odd combos
David,

I believe that your 302 is described within the decriptive paragraph as one of
the variations in column one on page 58 of the new Greenberg's Vol. 1, Fifth
edition. The Royal Blue that you describe is, I believe, cited as example "D"
at the very bottom of page 77 in the same book. Take a look and see what you
think.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 299 From: bljohns@xxxxx.xxx Date: 11/3/1998
Subject: Flyer Automatic Turnout Control?
I'm hoping someone here can help. I'm looking for a track-trip method of throwing AF turnouts when a train approaches to automate my small layout. To see what I'm trying to do, go to: http://www.feist.com/~bljohns/automate.gif

I've studied the electric track trip instructions in "Greenberg's American Flyer S Gauge Repair and Operating Manual" (Tom Barker). I don't understand two things about this -- the book mentions the "activation area" should be 20" long. This presumes (I think) one is using the electric trip to activate an accessory, such as a crossing gate or lights. I would imagine I'd need a fairly short activation area (like a single piece of track) so I don't burn out a turnout's solenoid!

I also need the track trip to throw the turnout straight the first time it's tripped, and then curved the 2nd time it's tripped.

<sigh> This is where we Flyer fans pay the price for 2-rail track. This could be easily accomplished with three-rail track using control sections!

Schematics of electronic parts look like hieroglyphics to me. I can build something if I have Radio Shack part numbers and a picture of what gets soldered to what on a perf board and what wires go to the transformer, but when it comes to building something from a schematic....it's beyond me.

SO -- can someone point me in the right direction to accomplish this?? (That is, short of a Vo-Tech class on electronics!) <grin>

Thanks!

-=[ Brian ]=-
Group: S-Trains Message: 300 From: Alan Evans Date: 11/3/1998
Subject: Any Proto:64 or SIG people going to S Fest?
Hello S Gaugers:
I'll be attending the S Fest this weekend and hope to
meet some of you. I'll be manning the NASG table with
Eastern VP John Foley. Be sure to stop by and introduce
yourself.
I'm particularly interested in the Proto:64 and modern
prototype SIG areas and the current discussions, along with
some possibilities for future S gauge engines and cars. Your
input would be appreciated.

- Alan Evans
Group: S-Trains Message: 301 From: Arthur Armstrong Date: 11/3/1998
Subject: Re: Proto 64
Keith B. Thompson - Sun wrote:
>
> From: thompson@...
>
> 3rd, you mention on the P64 web page that Des Plains
> carry code 88 and NWSL carry code 100. I assume that
> these match the NMRA code 88/100 wheel standard (i.e.
> has anyone measured them)? IMHO, Code 88 seems close
> enough to P64 that we should just go with that.?
>

I have some experience on my in-progress small S scale layout. I have
code 110 NWSL wheels on three cars and code 88 DesPlaines wheels on one
car. I laid my track (code 100) - trying to meet NMRA standards (RP-3)
for S "fine scale" and RP12.2 for general turnout geometry.

All the cars track well with no particular trouble because of wheels.
(track bugs have mostly been fixed) My Southwind 2-8-0 with standard S
scale wheels performs well on the track - The track is not P:64
appearing, I am sure - I don't plan any close-up photos, but it looks
good enough to me and the thinner wheels really help the appearance of
the cars. I wish there were narrower truck frames available with
appropriate wheel-sets to contribute to the scale appearance.

Art Armstrong
aarmstro@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 302 From: Dale Smith Date: 11/3/1998
Subject: Re: odd combos
I think you are right on the Royal Blue, but the description of the 302 has a lot of "or"s in it. I
am not so sure it is as mix and match as the description appears to allow. The plastic tender with the
four piece cast metal locomotive shell seems unusual. My 51 and 52 catalogs only list a 302AC. In the
51 catalog, a four piece shell is pictured, but in 52 a one piece cast metal shell is illustrated. All
of them have sheet metal tenders. David, what does the wiring between the tender and loco look like?
Is it cloth covered, or plastic insulated. Also, are the tender trucks sintered iron or sheet metal.
With the link coupler, I would bet on sheet metal, putting the tender in 1953 vintage. The four piece
loco body was being phased out in 51 and appeared to be out by 52, which puts the loco in the pre 51
vintage. Seems like a kind of large time gap between the two pieces for it to be genuine Gilbert
variation, but so what. It makes an interesting piece. I bought a DC motor Atlantic which was
supposedly never made. (but why are there 300AC and 302AC units if there was never a DC) Inside there
isn't even a place for a reverse unit to attach. Maybe someday both our units will turn out to be a
rare pieces.

Dale Smith

RBubeck327@... wrote:

> From: RBubeck327@...
>
> David,
>
> I believe that your 302 is described within the decriptive paragraph as one of
> the variations in column one on page 58 of the new Greenberg's Vol. 1, Fifth
> edition. The Royal Blue that you describe is, I believe, cited as example "D"
> at the very bottom of page 77 in the same book. Take a look and see what you
> think.
>
> RB
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
> service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
> http://www.onelist.com/advert.html for more information.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> For information contact Paul Yorke (yorke@...) or visit http://www.gate.net/~yorke/smail.htm
Group: S-Trains Message: 303 From: Alex Binkley Date: 11/4/1998
Subject: 1925-27 American Flyer
This was on rec.models.railroad from Joyce M. Gearhart
(gears@...) who wrote:
>
> I have just acquired two engines and six cars with original boxes, a
> rheostat (w/original box), a bunch of o-gauge rail (plus, a wind up
> engine). Unfortunately, the wheels on both engines have seized and
> cracked.
>
> #1 Are these engines worth refurbishing or is it better to keep them "as
> is" so as to not change their original state?
>
> #2 Where/who is recommended for repairs.
>
> #3 Could I repair these parts myself? If so, who is a good parts
> supplier since at least the wheels need replacing?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Joyce

--
Alex Binkley,
Hammond, Ontario, Canada
Group: S-Trains Message: 304 From: BenTrous@xxx.xxx Date: 11/4/1998
Subject: Re: TTUX
I've got a boxed set of 5 of the American Models TTUX. They look OK. I've
actually got to get out to the local intermodal yard and check out a few
things.

My main complaint is that what appear to be supporting structure under the
trailer wheel beds are not actually attached and look like pointed fins
floating in mid-air. Another complaint is that the hitch saddles appear to
have been installed in the wrong direction causing the trailers to overhang
the end of the cars. I changed mine, but flipped the entire assembly (not
just the saddle) around, which I know is incorrect.

If you operate these in scale you will need to obtain some spacers for the
truck bolsters where the hi-rail coupler was to have been installed. I found
some really nice black nylon washers at the hardware store that fit almost
perfectly.

However, unlike the 'L' 0-27 versions for S these babies appear much more to
scale. American Models also has these cars available in a boxed sets with
their Baldwin switcher, some track and a power supply (at least as advertised)
in either Conrail or Southern. The TTUX is 5 car set while the loco and car
set has a loco, three cars and a caboose.

Ben Trousdale
Group: S-Trains Message: 305 From: Alex Binkley Date: 11/4/1998
Subject: Re: proto 64
Ted Larson wondered about a monthly distribution of
proto 64 to the Netless. Perhaps we could do that via
the column that Bill Wade has offered us? what do you
think? I assume most serious or semi serious S scalers would at least
read his magazine.
cheers
--
Alex Binkley,
Hammond, Ontario, Canada
Group: S-Trains Message: 306 From: Bill Porter Date: 11/4/1998
Subject: Re: Flyer Automatic Turnout Control?
Hi Brian,

It looks to me as if you need some sort of memory device - perhaps a
relay would do - to properly automate your system. There also needs to
be some 'de-bouncing' of the circuitry since the contacts via the
locomotives will be a tad intermittant, regardless of the length of the
sensor track. If you don't get a good enough answer from someone who
knows more about the available accessories, give me a note back and
we'll try to work something out, together. Your plan certainly looks to
be workable.

BTW, what program did you use to draw and to save the track plan?

Bill Porter

bljohns@... wrote:
>
> From: bljohns@...
>
> I'm hoping someone here can help. I'm looking for a track-trip method of throwing AF turnouts when a train approaches to automate my small layout. To see what I'm trying to do, go to:
>
> I've studied the electric track trip instructions in "Greenberg's American Flyer S Gauge Repair and Operating Manual" (Tom Barker). I don't understand two things about this -- the book mentions the "activation area" should be 20" long. This presumes (I think) one is using the electric trip to activate an accessory, such as a crossing gate or lights. I would imagine I'd need a fairly short activation area (like a single piece of track) so I don't burn out a turnout's solenoid!
>
> I also need the track trip to throw the turnout straight the first time it's tripped, and then curved the 2nd time it's tripped.
>
> <sigh> This is where we Flyer fans pay the price for 2-rail track. This could be easily accomplished with three-rail track using control sections!
>
> Schematics of electronic parts look like hieroglyphics to me. I can build something if I have Radio Shack part numbers and a picture of what gets soldered to what on a perf board and what wires go to the transformer, but when it comes to building something from a schematic....it's beyond me.
>
> SO -- can someone point me in the right direction to accomplish this?? (That is, short of a Vo-Tech class on electronics!) <grin>
>
> Thanks!
>
> -=[ Brian ]=-
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 307 From: David Dewey Date: 11/4/1998
Subject: Re: Flyer Automatic Turnout Control?
The 697 trip can be adjusted so only the locomotive weight sets it off. The
trick then is to wire it to a 'latching' relay, that is one that trips a
different set of contacts each time. We use these in organ consoles, you
push a toe button and it turns the relay points "on" then the next time you
push the toe button, it turns the relay points off, can be wired to turn
another set of points on instead. However, this is not a momentary contact,
so there's another problem. The AF trips do work if you can place them on
the diverging tracks, so as a train approaches the switch, it throws in the
direction of the approaching train.
Of course, this begs the question; if you have the layout automated,
what does the operater do???
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 308 From: Bill & Diane Wade Date: 11/4/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 35
> Subject: Chama Models kits
>
> Hello All
>
> Anyone seen or know where I can get Chama kits (originally from Chama NM)?
> These were vehicle kits produced in whitemetal some time ago. I understand
> that the proprietor is deceased and previous attempts to source them have
> come to nought.
>
> I have seen the '34 Ford AA truck and it is very nice. Comparing it to the
> Railmaster Exports example it is far ahead in detail level.
>
> I would be interested in purchasing unbuilt kits second hand if anyone has
> them surplus, but I'd really like to find an ongoing source for the local S
> scalers here.
>
> Cheers
>
> Lawrence
>
> ____

Check with PBL. Their Milestone Autos line includes the '34 Ford AA in three different configurations.

P.B.L. 707-462-7680


Take care,
Bill
--
=============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================
Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer
Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218
B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com
S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com
Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 309 From: David Dewey Date: 11/4/1998
Subject: Re: 1925-27 American Flyer
HI,
I tried posting Joyce directly, but her email bounced. Some of these wheels
are available, some are good, some are junk. If the locos are NIB, I'd leave
them alone if she wants to re-sell them. NIB Collectors don't care about
operating ability!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 310 From: David Dewey Date: 11/4/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 35
Hmm,
"34 AA truck"??? That's interesting, Ford stopped production of the
model AA in Feb. of '32. For those of us who are 'into' old cars, it is
interesting to see what the models look like, or are dated as. Often wrong
wheels are used, or a combination of years, I can't remember which model it
is, but it has a '30 radiator, 32 hood, and a 34 body, but with a '30-31
gas cap added to the cowl. and 34-35 wheels. And I believe it was marketed
as a '32 A (in '32 it would have been a B or a V-8 ).
You think the Proto64 standards are strict, you should see the Model A
Ford judging standards!! Did you bend that cotter pin to the left or the
right??? <BG>
Back to having fun with trains......
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 311 From: Bill & Diane Wade Date: 11/4/1998
Subject: Clearance Sale Items
Howdy Friends

Time to clear out some dusty stock. Take a look at

http://www.btsrr.com/btssale.htm

for more info on saving some $$$.

Thanks,
Bill

--
=============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================
Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer
Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218
B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com
S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com
Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 312 From: Chuck Smith Date: 11/4/1998
Subject: Re: Flyer Automatic Turnout Control?
bljohns@... wrote:
>
> From: bljohns@...
>
> I'm hoping someone here can help. I'm looking for a track-trip method of throwing AF turnouts when a train approaches to automate my small layout. To see what I'm trying to do, go to:
>
> I've studied the electric track trip instructions in "Greenberg's American Flyer S Gauge Repair and Operating Manual" (Tom Barker). I don't understand two things about this -- the book mentions the "activation area" should be 20" long. This presumes (I think) one is using the electric trip to activate an accessory, such as a crossing gate or lights. I would imagine I'd need a fairly short activation area (like a single piece of track) so I don't burn out a turnout's solenoid!
>
> I also need the track trip to throw the turnout straight the first time it's tripped, and then curved the 2nd time it's tripped.
>
> <sigh> This is where we Flyer fans pay the price for 2-rail track. This could be easily accomplished with three-rail track using control sections!
>
> Schematics of electronic parts look like hieroglyphics to me. I can build something if I have Radio Shack part numbers and a picture of what gets soldered to what on a perf board and what wires go to the transformer, but when it comes to building something from a schematic....it's beyond me.
>
> SO -- can someone point me in the right direction to accomplish this?? (That is, short of a Vo-Tech class on electronics!) <grin>
>
> Thanks!
>
> -=[ Brian ]=-
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> For information contact Paul Yorke (yorke@...) or visit http://www.gate.net/~yorke/smail.htm
AF had a track relay for this purpose. It looked like the base of the
solenoid and came with instructions for wiring a reverse loop. I'm not
clear whether this thing worked with all switches or only the original
720s. The original 720s turned themselves after throwing. The more
common 720A are much more reliable because the plastic bases didn't seem
to warp as much. I have no idea where to get a relay these days, but at
least you know what to look for.

There is also an AF track trip used for things like a crossing gate if
you can find one. These draw a tiny bit of current and would operate a
switch when the train passed thru an insulated section with the trip
installed in it.
One feature of AF switches that helps you do all this is that when set
for 2 train operation they unpower the track beyond the switch.
--
"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers and the
S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith
Group: S-Trains Message: 313 From: Richard Snook Date: 11/4/1998
Subject: Re: Netless
Felicitation"S" to all

Alex's idea sounds pretty good from over here, also has the important bonus of exposure to the non converted and capturing the attention of manufacturers and all the other Publishing houses who will ( they do you know ) buy the mag for their libraries ( and to really have a look at what everyone else is doing, funny industry publishing..!!! ) a little exposure here, a little there and who knows..a few more might like what they see, as they say every little bit helps.

I'll be brave ( or silly) here...If no one else feels like they would want to give this column a shot,I'll put my hand up, the only time delays might be incurred with items snail mailing it to me, but with co-operation and the wonders of the net I'm sure something can be worked out. As it happens I work for a rather large publishing company and have the luxury of access to some pretty wizzy stuff that would make pre press a lot easier for Bill, so there it is. If someone else closer wants to, I'm happy also to help in any way.

regard"S" to all

:-)) Richard
Group: S-Trains Message: 314 From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton Date: 11/4/1998
Subject: Loco Variations
Here's an interesting one, possibly.....

A friend bought a Royal Blue for me at York two spring meets ago. It's the
solid handrail type, with a non-indented background for the lettering on
the tender. What's really interesting, however, is that the boiler shell
was originally RED. The blue paint certainly looks factory, and the letter
and B&O stampings definitely look like factory. What is so convincing, is
that if you look at the lower left side of the bullet nose, the blue spray
is light and the red bleeds through in a total area of approx. 3/4 square
inch.

Why would someone have gone to all the pains of painting so beautifully and
stamping the letters so perfectly, but not covering the boiler front? It
looks exactly like one of those hurried factory paint jobs.

Ken Patterson was standing nearby when my friend picked this piece up to
look at it. Ken viewed it closely and said there is always a chance that
the Gilbert factory oversprayed a Circus engine to meet an order for Blues.

I spoke with "Doc" Navarre about the engine at a train meet later, in
Atlanta. I did not have the engine with me. (Doc was an A. C. Gilbert
field engineer, in the Southeast, I think. Today he lives in GA.) Doc
thought it was almost impossible that a Circus would have been repainted.
He told a story about going into one of the buildings in New Haven, and
seeing literally aisle after aisle of Royal Blue boxes, apparently with
completed engines (or maybe parts) inside them. He indicated that this was
at a time near "the end of the line" for the 350. Paint a blue engine
into a red one, possibly...but not turn a Circus in to a 350.

What thoughts would anyone have on this? Anyway, I have the engine. It's
a beautiful Blue, even if it does happen to be a later day repaint, done by
someone who didn't know what they were doing!

I enjoy reading all your mail.


Don't complain.....TRAIN

Steve Pendleton
best of breed@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 315 From: Donald P. Abrams Date: 11/4/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 35
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML>
 
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>David,</BLOCKQUOTE>
With a single screw attaching the drawbar and a 4-pin plug on the rear
of  the tender you can make an awful lot ot 302 engine/tender combinations!
<BR>I would agree that by '52 4-piece Atlantics were probably used up --
probably even in '51. I believe that plastic tenders appeared in '52.
<BR>Putting the AC or DC suffixes on the locos seems to be mostly a '50-'51
thing, although not all had them then.
<P>Don
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE> 
<BR>Message: 16
<BR>   Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 22:36:07 -0800
<BR>   From: Dale Smith <dfsmith@...>
<BR>Subject: Re: odd combos
<P>I think you are  right on the Royal Blue, but the description of
the 302 has a lot of "or"s in it.  I
<BR>am not so sure it is as mix and match as the description appears to
allow.  The plastic tender with the
<BR>four piece cast metal locomotive shell seems unusual.  My 51 and
52 catalogs only list a 302AC.  In the
<BR>51 catalog, a four piece shell is pictured, but in 52 a one piece cast
metal shell is illustrated.  All
<BR>of them have sheet metal tenders.  David, what does the wiring
between the tender and loco look like?
<BR>Is it cloth covered, or plastic insulated.  Also, are the tender
trucks sintered iron or sheet metal.
<BR>With the link coupler, I would bet on sheet metal, putting the tender
in 1953 vintage.  The four piece
<BR>loco body was being phased out in 51 and appeared to be out by 52,
which puts the loco in the pre 51
<BR>vintage.  Seems like a kind of large time gap between the two
pieces  for it to be genuine Gilbert
<BR>variation, but so what.  It makes an interesting piece. 
I bought a DC motor Atlantic which was
<BR>supposedly never made. (but why are there 300AC and 302AC units if
there was never a DC)  Inside there
<BR>isn't even a place for a reverse unit to attach.   Maybe
someday both our units will turn out to be a
<BR>rare pieces.
<P>Dale Smith
<P>RBubeck327@... wrote:
<P>> From: RBubeck327@...
<BR>>
<BR>> David,
<BR>>
<BR>> I believe that your 302 is described within the decriptive paragraph
as one of
<BR>> the variations in column one on page 58 of the new Greenberg's Vol.
1, Fifth
<BR>> edition.  The Royal Blue that you describe is, I believe, cited
as example "D"
<BR>> at the very bottom of page 77 in the same book.  Take a look
and see what you
<BR>> think.</BLOCKQUOTE>
</HTML>
Group: S-Trains Message: 316 From: Bilfrazier@aol.com Date: 11/4/1998
Subject: A.C.Gilbert fans
Pardon me if this is a little unrelated, but I'm looking for information maybe
one of us on the list can help me with.
I recently aquired a small 8" desk fan. I know Gilbert made "Polar Cub" fans,
but mine is an "Air Stream". A label on the bottom says:

Made by the A. C. Gilbert Co.
New Haven, Conn., U. S. A.
115-120 Volts 60 Cycles only

Cat. A18 Watts 40
See Patents Attached
Tested by
Code M1743-A

The base has "P 2335" cast into it.
It is in about G- condition, with a little light rust and a rotted original
cord.
I am not necessarily interested in selling it, but would like to find out what
it might be worth.
Can anyone help?
Thanks,

Bill Frazier
Group: S-Trains Message: 317 From: Brian Johns Date: 11/4/1998
Subject: Flyer Automatic Turnout Control?
Thanks, Chuck. You inspired me to *think* a little and consult my 1955 AF
Instruction Book. ("duh.")

I learned a lot, but still haven't found what I'm looking for. The
instruction book mentions the #697 AF track trip. It's pressure activated
and can be used to throw turnouts, but alas it won't work for me. For one,
I'd have to take off the rubber roadbed (or, <gasp> cut it) to accommodate
the trip. The AF manual warns against stopping the locomotive on the trip or
it might cause the accessory it operates to overheat. It also warns it
shouldn't be used on small layouts (like mine) for turnout control because
it'll eventually cause the turnout to overheat. I'm going to need a REALLY
momentary trip to throw the turnout, and one that can alternate which way
the turnout throws.

The Greenberg book also mentions a #670 and a #26671 "electrical" trip from
AF. That's probably what you were referring to. I have no information on
these two trips. How about it -- anybody have some more info or ideas on
this? A diagram of what I'm trying to do is at:
http://www.feist.com/~bljohns/automate.gif

-=[ Brian ]=-


>AF had a track relay for this purpose. It looked like the base of the
>solenoid and came with instructions for wiring a reverse loop. I'm not
>clear whether this thing worked with all switches or only the original
>720s. The original 720s turned themselves after throwing. The more
>common 720A are much more reliable because the plastic bases didn't seem
>to warp as much. I have no idea where to get a relay these days, but at
>least you know what to look for.
>
>There is also an AF track trip used for things like a crossing gate if
>you can find one. These draw a tiny bit of current and would operate a
>switch when the train passed thru an insulated section with the trip
>installed in it.
>One feature of AF switches that helps you do all this is that when set
>for 2 train operation they unpower the track beyond the switch.
>--
>"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
>than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
>
>Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers and the
>S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 318 From: thompson@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxx Date: 11/5/1998
Subject: PRR P5a in brass
Hello,

I am pursuing an opportunity to have a S scale brass
model made of the Pennsylvania P5a electric locomotive.
What I would like is to find out what level of interest,
if any, there may be in the S scale community for this model.

If you are interested (at any level) please email me and
let me know what you think. (my email address is below)
If you know of someone not on this list please who may
be interested, please pass this note along.

At this point the rough estimate will put the model in
the $600-$700 range. But it will depend on volume :)

Thanks in advance,
kbt

Keith B Thompson
11 West Hill Rd
Brookline, NH 03033

603-672-1293 (H)
978-442-0309 (W)

keith.thompson@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 319 From: Boul, Lawrence Date: 11/5/1998
Subject: Re: Ford AA
> Hmm,
> "34 AA truck"??? That's interesting, Ford stopped production of the
> model AA in Feb. of '32. For those of us who are 'into' old cars, it is
> interesting to see what the models look like, or are dated as. Often
> wrong
> wheels are used, or a combination of years, I can't remember which model
> it
> is, but it has a '30 radiator, 32 hood, and a 34 body, but with a '30-31
> gas cap added to the cowl. and 34-35 wheels. And I believe it was marketed
> as a '32 A (in '32 it would have been a B or a V-8 ).
> You think the Proto64 standards are strict, you should see the Model A
> Ford judging standards!! Did you bend that cotter pin to the left or the
> right??? <BG>
> Back to having fun with trains......
> S'
> David D.
>
[Boul, Lawrence] '34 AA is what it says on the box I think. Certainly the
Railmaster is supposed to be a '34 AA. A local Ford collector who is also
an S scaler had informed me that this was incorrect. From memory he said it
was an A. The original Ford info I have for that year just calls it "the
Ford truck". I felt it better to stick to what it said on the box for the
purpose of this discussion, but its nice that some people know the
difference!!!

Cheers and thanks everyone.

Lawrence
Group: S-Trains Message: 320 From: kelvin white Date: 11/5/1998
Subject: Proto 64 Column
Message: 11
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 09:57:24 +1000
From: Richard Snook <richard.snook@...>
Subject: Re: Netless

Felicitation"S" to all

Alex's idea sounds pretty good from over here, also has the important
bonus of exposure to the non converted and capturing the attention of
manufacturers

I'll be sillyhere...If no one else feels like they would want to give
this column a shot,I'll put my hand up,

regard"S" to all

:-)) Richard

Well done Richard - none so willing to die as a volunteer!!!

Certainly a degree of coherence needs to be presented in a P64 slot -
for starters I suggest you review the British S scale standards (which
are proven and work) before trying to reinvent the wheel again - just
for the sake of colonial independance!!

Best regards


--
Kelvin White
Oxford England

PS thanks for the second mailing of gaiters - alas they proved to be of the same
size as the earlier box issued - however Bill Banta is interested in producing
some smaller gaitors and half submerged beasts.
Group: S-Trains Message: 321 From: David Dewey Date: 11/5/1998
Subject: Re: Ford AA; more trivial info...
Hi All,
OK, a little more info on Ford vehicles;
'09 to '27 Model T
'19 to '27 Model TT (TT means heavy truck, not all parts same as T, but
same engine, hood and radiator)
'28-'31 Model A (all cars, even pickups)
'28-'31 Model AA (Again, heavy truck, larger wheels, heavier frame, not
pickups!)
'32 Model B, four cylinder
'32 Model BB, Heavy trucks
'32 Model 18--V-8 engine cars
33 on, V-8 models, each year some style change, same for trucks
33-35 or so, 4 cylinder models of both cars and trucks available
So now you have lots of trivia on these things. The 28-29 As look
different from the '30-'31 models, and the 33 on models look different too.
Wheels changed too, the T mostly had wood spoked, but in '26 a 21" wire
spoke was offered, this wheel in S at least would look identical to the
28-29 A wheel (the variations are obvious in full size, but not when scaled
down), the '30-31 A wheel looks the same as the earlier, but its a 19"
wheel. In '32 and on, the wire wheel has crossed over spokes (this is the
wheel most of the car models use for the earlier wheels) and looks the same
until Disk wheels were used in '36. BUT for the rivet counters; in '32
wheels were 18", in '33 they were 17", and in '34-'35 they were 16", as were
the disk wheels until the war.
Now for the scary part--I wrote all this from memory!! No wonder I can't
remember anything new, my human disk drive is cluttered with trivia!!!
S'incerely,
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 322 From: Roger Hinds Date: 11/5/1998
Subject: Auto forum
Has anyone noticed that this has turned into a die-cast automobile forum
to some degree?
Roger
Group: S-Trains Message: 323 From: Keith Thompson Date: 11/5/1998
Subject: Re: Auto forum
Hi Roger,

You know, (Hot Wheels) I haven't really noticed (Matchbox) that at all.
However, some of us (Mint Editions) enjoy S scale cars as much as we do
trains (Johnny Lightning). I'll try to do my part (ERTL)to keep it to a
minimum (Winross) in the future (Buby, Impy, Lone Star, Yat Ming). -- Keith
Thompson in Seattle


At 07:33 PM 11/5/98 -0800, you wrote:
>From: Roger Hinds <cofa@...>
>
>Has anyone noticed that this has turned into a die-cast automobile forum
>to some degree?
>Roger
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>For information contact Paul Yorke (yorke@...) or visit
http://www.gate.net/~yorke/smail.htm
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 324 From: David Dewey Date: 11/5/1998
Subject: Re: Auto forum
Gee, no I hadn't, but I have noticed that some layouts I've seen have more
autos than trains. I've become interested, as I *think* I have sufficent
trains for a layout, but I'm terribly short on automobiles to grace
highways, backyards, junkyards, train depot parking lots, etc. Since the
cars are just 'scenery' I don't want to have an investment in them that
exceeds the trains!!!!<BG>
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 325 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 11/5/1998
Subject: David Horn/VA/Best is out of the office.
I will be out of the office from 11/05/98 until 11/09/98.

If you have a FAS Technical Support question please contact Lisa Liedel at
lisa_liedel@.... Thank you.
Group: S-Trains Message: 326 From: Brian Johns Date: 11/5/1998
Subject: Flyer Automatic Turnout Control
Hi all--

Well, the quest for automation continues! Several people have volunteered to
help, so I'm busy tracking down the alternatives...

A lot of people have asked what software I used to make the diagram at:
http://www.feist.com/~bljohns/automate.gif.

It is "RR-Track" software -- I just made a .GIF of a screen shot of the
software (press alt-printscreen and then paste into a painting program save
as a .GIF).

You can learn about RR-Track at http://www.leba.net/rrtrack/. I haven't
played with the 3D viewer, but it REALLY looks cool! It takes a little
practice to learn how to add track and how to move sections around, but it's
a quick learn and it's really neat the way the track pieces snap together
and align themselves. It's worth every penny, and the company has great
email tech support if you get hung up on something.

RF Giardina has a "1202 track trip"
(http://member.aol.com/rgiardina/electronics.html) and they responded and
said it would work for me with some control sections. I emailed them back
for some specifics to be sure it will work the way I need it to. A lot of
people seem to have missed that I need a means of alternating the turnout's
direction....

-=[ Brian ]=-


----------
>From: S-Trains@onelist.com
>To: S-Trains@onelist.com
>Subject: [S-Trains] Digest Number 36
>Date: Thu, Nov 5, 1998, 4:46 AM
>

>
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>For information contact Paul Yorke (yorke@...) or visit
>http://www.gate.net/~yorke/smail.htm
>
>
>There are 15 messages in this issue.
>
>Topics in today's digest:
>
> 1. 1925-27 American Flyer
> From: Alex Binkley <alex.binkley@...>
> 2. Re: TTUX
> From: BenTrous@...
> 3. Re: proto 64
> From: Alex Binkley <alex.binkley@...>
> 4. Re: Flyer Automatic Turnout Control?
> From: Bill Porter <wpporter@...>
> 5. Re: Flyer Automatic Turnout Control?
> From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...>
> 6. Re: Digest Number 35
> From: Bill & Diane Wade <wadepub@...>
> 7. Re: 1925-27 American Flyer
> From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...>
> 8. Re: Digest Number 35
> From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...>
> 9. Clearance Sale Items
> From: Bill & Diane Wade <wadepub@...>
> 10. Re: Flyer Automatic Turnout Control?
> From: Chuck Smith <cesmith@...>
> 11. Re: Netless
> From: Richard Snook <richard.snook@...>
> 12. Loco Variations
> From: "Steve & Cathy Pendleton" <bestofbreed@...>
> 13. Re: Digest Number 35
> From: "Donald P. Abrams" <donabrams@...>
> 14. A.C.Gilbert fans
> From: Bilfrazier@...
> 15. Flyer Automatic Turnout Control?
> From: "Brian Johns" <bljohns@...>
>
>
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 06:48:30 -0800
> From: Alex Binkley <alex.binkley@...>
>Subject: 1925-27 American Flyer
>
>This was on rec.models.railroad from Joyce M. Gearhart
>(gears@...) who wrote:
>>
>> I have just acquired two engines and six cars with original boxes, a
>> rheostat (w/original box), a bunch of o-gauge rail (plus, a wind up
>> engine). Unfortunately, the wheels on both engines have seized and
>> cracked.
>>
>> #1 Are these engines worth refurbishing or is it better to keep them "as
>> is" so as to not change their original state?
>>
>> #2 Where/who is recommended for repairs.
>>
>> #3 Could I repair these parts myself? If so, who is a good parts
>> supplier since at least the wheels need replacing?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Joyce
>
>--
>Alex Binkley,
>Hammond, Ontario, Canada
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 07:49:46 EST
> From: BenTrous@...
>Subject: Re: TTUX
>
>I've got a boxed set of 5 of the American Models TTUX. They look OK. I've
>actually got to get out to the local intermodal yard and check out a few
>things.
>
>My main complaint is that what appear to be supporting structure under the
>trailer wheel beds are not actually attached and look like pointed fins
>floating in mid-air. Another complaint is that the hitch saddles appear to
>have been installed in the wrong direction causing the trailers to overhang
>the end of the cars. I changed mine, but flipped the entire assembly (not
>just the saddle) around, which I know is incorrect.
>
>If you operate these in scale you will need to obtain some spacers for the
>truck bolsters where the hi-rail coupler was to have been installed. I found
>some really nice black nylon washers at the hardware store that fit almost
>perfectly.
>
>However, unlike the 'L' 0-27 versions for S these babies appear much more to
>scale. American Models also has these cars available in a boxed sets with
>their Baldwin switcher, some track and a power supply (at least as advertised)
>in either Conrail or Southern. The TTUX is 5 car set while the loco and car
>set has a loco, three cars and a caboose.
>
>Ben Trousdale
>
>
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 07:21:35 -0800
> From: Alex Binkley <alex.binkley@...>
>Subject: Re: proto 64
>
>Ted Larson wondered about a monthly distribution of
>proto 64 to the Netless. Perhaps we could do that via
>the column that Bill Wade has offered us? what do you
>think? I assume most serious or semi serious S scalers would at least
>read his magazine.
> cheers
>--
>Alex Binkley,
>Hammond, Ontario, Canada
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 10:05:30 -0500
> From: Bill Porter <wpporter@...>
>Subject: Re: Flyer Automatic Turnout Control?
>
>Hi Brian,
>
>It looks to me as if you need some sort of memory device - perhaps a
>relay would do - to properly automate your system. There also needs to
>be some 'de-bouncing' of the circuitry since the contacts via the
>locomotives will be a tad intermittant, regardless of the length of the
>sensor track. If you don't get a good enough answer from someone who
>knows more about the available accessories, give me a note back and
>we'll try to work something out, together. Your plan certainly looks to
>be workable.
>
>BTW, what program did you use to draw and to save the track plan?
>
>Bill Porter
>
>bljohns@... wrote:
>>
>> From: bljohns@...
>>
>> I'm hoping someone here can help. I'm looking for a track-trip method of
>throwing AF turnouts when a train approaches to automate my small layout.
>To see what I'm trying to do, go to:
>>
>> I've studied the electric track trip instructions in "Greenberg's
>American Flyer S Gauge Repair and Operating Manual" (Tom Barker). I don't
>understand two things about this -- the book mentions the "activation area"
>should be 20" long. This presumes (I think) one is using the electric trip
>to activate an accessory, such as a crossing gate or lights. I would
>imagine I'd need a fairly short activation area (like a single piece of
>track) so I don't burn out a turnout's solenoid!
>>
>> I also need the track trip to throw the turnout straight the first time
>it's tripped, and then curved the 2nd time it's tripped.
>>
>> <sigh> This is where we Flyer fans pay the price for 2-rail track. This
>could be easily accomplished with three-rail track using control sections!
>>
>> Schematics of electronic parts look like hieroglyphics to me. I can build
>something if I have Radio Shack part numbers and a picture of what gets
>soldered to what on a perf board and what wires go to the transformer, but
>when it comes to building something from a schematic....it's beyond me.
>>
>> SO -- can someone point me in the right direction to accomplish this??
>(That is, short of a Vo-Tech class on electronics!) <grin>
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> -=[ Brian ]=-
>>
>>
>
>
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 07:41:11 -0800
> From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...>
>Subject: Re: Flyer Automatic Turnout Control?
>
>The 697 trip can be adjusted so only the locomotive weight sets it off. The
>trick then is to wire it to a 'latching' relay, that is one that trips a
>different set of contacts each time. We use these in organ consoles, you
>push a toe button and it turns the relay points "on" then the next time you
>push the toe button, it turns the relay points off, can be wired to turn
>another set of points on instead. However, this is not a momentary contact,
>so there's another problem. The AF trips do work if you can place them on
>the diverging tracks, so as a train approaches the switch, it throws in the
>direction of the approaching train.
> Of course, this begs the question; if you have the layout automated,
>what does the operater do???
>S'
>David D.
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 11:03:58 -0500
> From: Bill & Diane Wade <wadepub@...>
>Subject: Re: Digest Number 35
>
>> Subject: Chama Models kits
>>
>> Hello All
>>
>> Anyone seen or know where I can get Chama kits (originally from Chama NM)?
>> These were vehicle kits produced in whitemetal some time ago. I understand
>> that the proprietor is deceased and previous attempts to source them have
>> come to nought.
>>
>> I have seen the '34 Ford AA truck and it is very nice. Comparing it to the
>> Railmaster Exports example it is far ahead in detail level.
>>
>> I would be interested in purchasing unbuilt kits second hand if anyone has
>> them surplus, but I'd really like to find an ongoing source for the local S
>> scalers here.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Lawrence
>>
>> ____
>
>Check with PBL. Their Milestone Autos line includes the '34 Ford AA in
>three different configurations.
>
>P.B.L. 707-462-7680
>
>
>Take care,
>Bill
>--
>=============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================
> Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer
>Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218
> B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com
> S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com
> Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 08:39:12 -0800
> From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...>
>Subject: Re: 1925-27 American Flyer
>
>HI,
>I tried posting Joyce directly, but her email bounced. Some of these wheels
>are available, some are good, some are junk. If the locos are NIB, I'd leave
>them alone if she wants to re-sell them. NIB Collectors don't care about
>operating ability!
>S'
>David D.
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 8
> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 08:37:03 -0800
> From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...>
>Subject: Re: Digest Number 35
>
>Hmm,
> "34 AA truck"??? That's interesting, Ford stopped production of the
>model AA in Feb. of '32. For those of us who are 'into' old cars, it is
>interesting to see what the models look like, or are dated as. Often wrong
>wheels are used, or a combination of years, I can't remember which model it
>is, but it has a '30 radiator, 32 hood, and a 34 body, but with a '30-31
>gas cap added to the cowl. and 34-35 wheels. And I believe it was marketed
>as a '32 A (in '32 it would have been a B or a V-8 ).
> You think the Proto64 standards are strict, you should see the Model A
>Ford judging standards!! Did you bend that cotter pin to the left or the
>right??? <BG>
> Back to having fun with trains......
>S'
>David D.
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 9
> Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 12:24:01 -0500
> From: Bill & Diane Wade <wadepub@...>
>Subject: Clearance Sale Items
>
>Howdy Friends
>
>Time to clear out some dusty stock. Take a look at
>
> http://www.btsrr.com/btssale.htm
>
>for more info on saving some $$$.
>
>Thanks,
>Bill
>
>--
>=============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================
> Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer
>Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218
> B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com
> S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com
> Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 10
> Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 16:29:06 -0500
> From: Chuck Smith <cesmith@...>
>Subject: Re: Flyer Automatic Turnout Control?
>
>bljohns@... wrote:
>>
>> From: bljohns@...
>>
>> I'm hoping someone here can help. I'm looking for a track-trip method of
>throwing AF turnouts when a train approaches to automate my small layout.
>To see what I'm trying to do, go to:
>>
>> I've studied the electric track trip instructions in "Greenberg's
>American Flyer S Gauge Repair and Operating Manual" (Tom Barker). I don't
>understand two things about this -- the book mentions the "activation area"
>should be 20" long. This presumes (I think) one is using the electric trip
>to activate an accessory, such as a crossing gate or lights. I would
>imagine I'd need a fairly short activation area (like a single piece of
>track) so I don't burn out a turnout's solenoid!
>>
>> I also need the track trip to throw the turnout straight the first time
>it's tripped, and then curved the 2nd time it's tripped.
>>
>> <sigh> This is where we Flyer fans pay the price for 2-rail track. This
>could be easily accomplished with three-rail track using control sections!
>>
>> Schematics of electronic parts look like hieroglyphics to me. I can build
>something if I have Radio Shack part numbers and a picture of what gets
>soldered to what on a perf board and what wires go to the transformer, but
>when it comes to building something from a schematic....it's beyond me.
>>
>> SO -- can someone point me in the right direction to accomplish this??
>(That is, short of a Vo-Tech class on electronics!) <grin>
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> -=[ Brian ]=-
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
>> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> For information contact Paul Yorke (yorke@...) or visit
>http://www.gate.net/~yorke/smail.htm
>AF had a track relay for this purpose. It looked like the base of the
>solenoid and came with instructions for wiring a reverse loop. I'm not
>clear whether this thing worked with all switches or only the original
>720s. The original 720s turned themselves after throwing. The more
>common 720A are much more reliable because the plastic bases didn't seem
>to warp as much. I have no idea where to get a relay these days, but at
>least you know what to look for.
>
>There is also an AF track trip used for things like a crossing gate if
>you can find one. These draw a tiny bit of current and would operate a
>switch when the train passed thru an insulated section with the trip
>installed in it.
>One feature of AF switches that helps you do all this is that when set
>for 2 train operation they unpower the track beyond the switch.
>--
>"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
>than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
>
>Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers and the
>S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith
>
>
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 11
> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 09:57:24 +1000
> From: Richard Snook <richard.snook@...>
>Subject: Re: Netless
>
>Felicitation"S" to all
>
>Alex's idea sounds pretty good from over here, also has the important bonus
>of exposure to the non converted and capturing the attention of
>manufacturers and all the other Publishing houses who will ( they do you
>know ) buy the mag for their libraries ( and to really have a look at what
> everyone else is doing, funny industry publishing..!!! ) a little exposure
>here, a little there and who knows..a few more might like what they see, as
>they say every little bit helps.
>
> I'll be brave ( or silly) here...If no one else feels like they would want
>to give this column a shot,I'll put my hand up, the only time delays might
>be incurred with items snail mailing it to me, but with co-operation and
>the wonders of the net I'm sure something can be worked out. As it happens
>I work for a rather large publishing company and have the luxury of access
>to some pretty wizzy stuff that would make pre press a lot easier for Bill,
>so there it is. If someone else closer wants to, I'm happy also to help in any way.
>
>regard"S" to all
>
>:-)) Richard
>
>
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 12
> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 22:02:10 -0500
> From: "Steve & Cathy Pendleton" <bestofbreed@...>
>Subject: Loco Variations
>
>Here's an interesting one, possibly.....
>
>A friend bought a Royal Blue for me at York two spring meets ago. It's the
>solid handrail type, with a non-indented background for the lettering on
>the tender. What's really interesting, however, is that the boiler shell
>was originally RED. The blue paint certainly looks factory, and the letter
>and B&O stampings definitely look like factory. What is so convincing, is
>that if you look at the lower left side of the bullet nose, the blue spray
>is light and the red bleeds through in a total area of approx. 3/4 square
>inch.
>
>Why would someone have gone to all the pains of painting so beautifully and
>stamping the letters so perfectly, but not covering the boiler front? It
>looks exactly like one of those hurried factory paint jobs.
>
>Ken Patterson was standing nearby when my friend picked this piece up to
>look at it. Ken viewed it closely and said there is always a chance that
>the Gilbert factory oversprayed a Circus engine to meet an order for Blues.
>
>I spoke with "Doc" Navarre about the engine at a train meet later, in
>Atlanta. I did not have the engine with me. (Doc was an A. C. Gilbert
>field engineer, in the Southeast, I think. Today he lives in GA.) Doc
>thought it was almost impossible that a Circus would have been repainted.
>He told a story about going into one of the buildings in New Haven, and
>seeing literally aisle after aisle of Royal Blue boxes, apparently with
>completed engines (or maybe parts) inside them. He indicated that this was
>at a time near "the end of the line" for the 350. Paint a blue engine
>into a red one, possibly...but not turn a Circus in to a 350.
>
>What thoughts would anyone have on this? Anyway, I have the engine. It's
>a beautiful Blue, even if it does happen to be a later day repaint, done by
>someone who didn't know what they were doing!
>
>I enjoy reading all your mail.
>
>
>Don't complain.....TRAIN
>
>Steve Pendleton
>best of breed@...
>
>
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 13
> Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 23:09:06 -0500
> From: "Donald P. Abrams" <donabrams@...>
>Subject: Re: Digest Number 35
>
><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
><HTML>

><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>David,</BLOCKQUOTE>
>With a single screw attaching the drawbar and a 4-pin plug on the rear
>of  the tender you can make an awful lot ot 302 engine/tender combinations!
><BR>I would agree that by '52 4-piece Atlantics were probably used up --
>probably even in '51. I believe that plastic tenders appeared in '52.
><BR>Putting the AC or DC suffixes on the locos seems to be mostly a '50-'51
>thing, although not all had them then.
><P>Don
><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE> 
><BR>Message: 16
><BR>   Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 22:36:07 -0800
><BR>   From: Dale Smith <dfsmith@...>
><BR>Subject: Re: odd combos
><P>I think you are  right on the Royal Blue, but the description of
>the 302 has a lot of "or"s in it.  I
><BR>am not so sure it is as mix and match as the description appears to
>allow.  The plastic tender with the
><BR>four piece cast metal locomotive shell seems unusual.  My 51 and
>52 catalogs only list a 302AC.  In the
><BR>51 catalog, a four piece shell is pictured, but in 52 a one piece cast
>metal shell is illustrated.  All
><BR>of them have sheet metal tenders.  David, what does the wiring
>between the tender and loco look like?
><BR>Is it cloth covered, or plastic insulated.  Also, are the tender
>trucks sintered iron or sheet metal.
><BR>With the link coupler, I would bet on sheet metal, putting the tender
>in 1953 vintage.  The four piece
><BR>loco body was being phased out in 51 and appeared to be out by 52,
>which puts the loco in the pre 51
><BR>vintage.  Seems like a kind of large time gap between the two
>pieces  for it to be genuine Gilbert
><BR>variation, but so what.  It makes an interesting piece. 
>I bought a DC motor Atlantic which was
><BR>supposedly never made. (but why are there 300AC and 302AC units if
>there was never a DC)  Inside there
><BR>isn't even a place for a reverse unit to attach.   Maybe
>someday both our units will turn out to be a
><BR>rare pieces.
><P>Dale Smith
><P>RBubeck327@... wrote:
><P>> From: RBubeck327@...
><BR>>
><BR>> David,
><BR>>
><BR>> I believe that your 302 is described within the decriptive paragraph
>as one of
><BR>> the variations in column one on page 58 of the new Greenberg's Vol.
>1, Fifth
><BR>> edition.  The Royal Blue that you describe is, I believe, cited
>as example "D"
><BR>> at the very bottom of page 77 in the same book.  Take a look
>and see what you
><BR>> think.</BLOCKQUOTE>
></HTML>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 14
> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 00:48:58 EST
> From: Bilfrazier@...
>Subject: A.C.Gilbert fans
>
>Pardon me if this is a little unrelated, but I'm looking for information maybe
>one of us on the list can help me with.
>I recently aquired a small 8" desk fan. I know Gilbert made "Polar Cub" fans,
>but mine is an "Air Stream". A label on the bottom says:
>
>Made by the A. C. Gilbert Co.
>New Haven, Conn., U. S. A.
>115-120 Volts 60 Cycles only
>
>Cat. A18 Watts 40
> See Patents Attached
>Tested by
>Code M1743-A
>
>The base has "P 2335" cast into it.
>It is in about G- condition, with a little light rust and a rotted original
>cord.
>I am not necessarily interested in selling it, but would like to find out what
>it might be worth.
>Can anyone help?
>Thanks,
>
>Bill Frazier
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 15
> Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 23:59:36 -0500
> From: "Brian Johns" <bljohns@...>
>Subject: Flyer Automatic Turnout Control?
>
>Thanks, Chuck. You inspired me to *think* a little and consult my 1955 AF
>Instruction Book. ("duh.")
>
>I learned a lot, but still haven't found what I'm looking for. The
>instruction book mentions the #697 AF track trip. It's pressure activated
>and can be used to throw turnouts, but alas it won't work for me. For one,
>I'd have to take off the rubber roadbed (or, <gasp> cut it) to accommodate
>the trip. The AF manual warns against stopping the locomotive on the trip or
>it might cause the accessory it operates to overheat. It also warns it
>shouldn't be used on small layouts (like mine) for turnout control because
>it'll eventually cause the turnout to overheat. I'm going to need a REALLY
>momentary trip to throw the turnout, and one that can alternate which way
>the turnout throws.
>
>The Greenberg book also mentions a #670 and a #26671 "electrical" trip from
>AF. That's probably what you were referring to. I have no information on
>these two trips. How about it -- anybody have some more info or ideas on
>this? A diagram of what I'm trying to do is at:
>http://www.feist.com/~bljohns/automate.gif
>
>-=[ Brian ]=-
>
>
>>AF had a track relay for this purpose. It looked like the base of the
>>solenoid and came with instructions for wiring a reverse loop. I'm not
>>clear whether this thing worked with all switches or only the original
>>720s. The original 720s turned themselves after throwing. The more
>>common 720A are much more reliable because the plastic bases didn't seem
>>to warp as much. I have no idea where to get a relay these days, but at
>>least you know what to look for.
>>
>>There is also an AF track trip used for things like a crossing gate if
>>you can find one. These draw a tiny bit of current and would operate a
>>switch when the train passed thru an insulated section with the trip
>>installed in it.
>>One feature of AF switches that helps you do all this is that when set
>>for 2 train operation they unpower the track beyond the switch.
>>--
>>"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
>>than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
>>
>>Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers and the
>>S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith
>>
>
>
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>_______________________________________________________________________________
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 327 From: Hilary Smith Date: 11/6/1998
Subject: P64 Column in S Modeling Guide
Attaboy Richard!

I think it is great for us that you decided to volunteer to write the column. My guess is that those interested in P64 should be thinking about things we could contribute to your column from time to time.

Hilary Smith
Northern Virginia





Richard Snook wrote:

> From: Richard Snook <richard.snook@...>
>
> Felicitation"S" to all
>
> Alex's idea sounds pretty good from over here, also has the important bonus of exposure to the non converted and capturing the attention of manufacturers and all the other Publishing houses who will ( they do you know ) buy the mag for their libraries ( and to really have a look at what everyone else is doing, funny industry publishing..!!! ) a little exposure here, a little there and who knows..a few more might like what they see, as they say every little bit helps.
>
> I'll be brave ( or silly) here...If no one else feels like they would want to give this column a shot,I'll put my hand up, the only time delays might be incurred with items snail mailing it to me, but with co-operation and the wonders of the net I'm sure something can be worked out. As it happens I work for a rather large publishing company and have the luxury of access to some pretty wizzy stuff that would make pre press a lot easier for Bill, so there it is. If someone else closer wants to, I'm happy also to help in any way.
>
> regard"S" to all
>
> :-)) Richard
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> For information contact Paul Yorke (yorke@...) or visit http://www.gate.net/~yorke/smail.htm
Group: S-Trains Message: 328 From: nsupbnsf@xxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) Date: 11/5/1998
Subject: Repairs for Smoke in Tender
The recent discussions on the engine smoke units are appreciated, and
some are applicable here.

Recently acquiring a 322 Hudson with the smoke in the tender, the first
objective was getting the engine to run, which it now does. And with
further effort, the smoke motor runs too. However, there is no in/out
air motion through the stack. Gently puffing through the stack, I can
hear a small leak in the bottom of the bellows, but some puffing should
result from the bellowing motion.

I'm not sure what symptoms to look for for this smoke arrangement to tell
what's right and what's wrong with it. How to get it operating? Any
thoughts would be appreciated.

Alan Udy, RMHRS

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Group: S-Trains Message: 329 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 11/6/1998
Subject: TRAINS vs AUTOS
When I started building an S scale empire in which to run my Gilbert
(almost scale) American Flyer trains, I was disappointed to find mostly
"O" scale cars available for the layout. Then along came Racing Champion
Mint Edition cars to go with my Winross trucks and I was very pleased.
Yes, we can become overloaded with car & truck talk but I am pleased that
at least it has a lot of S-scalers involved in the dialog. As long as we
are bringing up S scale ideas for the S-Trains column let us not lose
sight of our layouts needs. Many American flyer operators are OK with "O"
gauge stuff on their layout. I prefer S scale buildings, cars and scenery
but I don't have time to build trains to the detail many of you do.

Staying on S-Gauge track with American Flyer Trains & S Scale stuff,
Glenn
Group: S-Trains Message: 330 From: David Dewey Date: 11/6/1998
Subject: Re: Repairs for Smoke in Tender
Alan,
A 'small leak' in the bellows will cause failure of the 'puffing'.
Bellows material gets hard, or develops pinholes throughout the rubber
covering. Not an impossible repair, but on that does take some patience and
persistence. New material may be available from the 'usual suspects' or
from anyone playing with player piano rebuilding--they know it as "pneumatic
cloth" the thinner, the better. You also need some rubber cement for the
seam. The material is originally glued on with hot hide glue, but you *can*
use carpenter's glue. The trick is to put just enough glue on to glue the
cloth, but not so much that it makes an edge on the inside which will wear
through the cloth quickly.
What would make an ideal bellows material is called "Zephyr skin", it's
tanned intestine material, very lightweight and air tight, but very $$$$, of
course you don't need much for this either! Player people use it on Schultz
bellows pouches. It won't slow down the motor!
Oh, once you recover the bellows, don't forget to make the folds, so it
doesn't fold the wrong way and hit the tender frame. The initial fold will
stay!
Of course, if you have just one hole and you think you might be able to
fix it, you could try some of the flexible cauking/sealing products on just
the hole area. The hole is likely to be in the corner of the folds.
S'incerely,
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 331 From: Brian Johns Date: 11/6/1998
Subject: Whoops...
My apologies to the digest subscribers of this group! As penance for my
mistake, I *promise* to type this 100 times in my word processor and then
delete the file:

"I promise I will not send the entire digest back in a reply."
"I promise I will not send the entire digest back in a reply."
"I promise I will not send the entire digest back in a reply."......

Extremely embarrassed...

-=[ Brian ]=-
Group: S-Trains Message: 332 From: Bruce Crosby Date: 11/7/1998
Subject: Re: Smoking Tender Repair
I have a friend who has just completed a repair of a bellows on a smoking tender. He was able to get bellows material from an AF parts dealer and he used a small bead of Walthers goo!! It stays flexible but yet holds.....thats what we need and want guys.....
Bruce Crosby
abcrosby@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 333 From: mhrreast@juno.com Date: 11/7/1998
Subject: Die-Cast
OK, anybody know of some good, low-cost die-cast
trees? Well, actually, they don't need to be die-cast, but
they do need to be sturdy for portable module use.

Trees based on real plant stalks or stems break easily;
trees using twisted wire for the trunk take more time
than I would like;
molded plastic hobby shop trees are a bit expensive if
you need a lot of them;

I have been looking at the fake flower shops to see if some
of them could make a good trunk and branches. I have
found some that are good for small bushes, but no winners
yet for full size trees.

Any ideas out there? And then some birds I can put on
the branches so that they can decorate my diecast
autos that are parked underneath the trees? Actually,
there was an article in Mainline Modeler not too long ago
about scratchbuilding birds!!!

Ted Larson mhrreast@...
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/corp/features/space/photoSpace.shtml
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/corp/features/space/todayPictures.shtml



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Group: S-Trains Message: 334 From: PortLines@aol.com Date: 11/7/1998
Subject: Re: Structures, and reefers
In a message dated 11/7/98 4:45:05 AM, you wrote:

<<<As long as we

are bringing up S scale ideas for the S-Trains column let us not lose

sight of our layouts needs. Many American flyer operators are OK with "O"

gauge stuff on their layout. I prefer S scale buildings, cars and scenery

but I don't have time to build trains to the detail many of you do.>>>

Just to let everyone know---two updates:
(1) All the kits in our S-scale structure line are still available, although
we are about ready to phase-out a couple of them, including the 3-stall
roundhouse. (Note that we do have 1-stall additions still available for the
roundhouse, so you can expand it if desired.) Our newest kit, available about
the first of the year, will be a late l9th-century brick Fire house, modeled
after a structure in Boston. This kit is already available from Twin Whistle,
in O-gauge, and has been VERY well received and reviewed; it is a beauty! The
S-version is now in the works. Watch our website, and the press, for
availability. Color images of all our structures can be seen on our website.
Remember that we design these as NOVICE-level kits....not craftsman kits!
Finally, for those who don't want a kit, we can refer you to a kit builder who
will do our kits for you, and even customize them if you wish.
(2) Our wood-sided reefer line is back in production. We had a 2-month delay
due to lack of shell injections. The 2nd run of our "Post Road Ale" beer cars
(our first 2-color painted body) will be available again in 2 weeks. You can
view it from our website. Following immediately behind it, probably in 3-4
weeks, will be the long-postponed West India Steamship Lines ferry service
reefer. We'll have an image of that car on the website as soon as we have the
car available. All back-orders for these 2 cars will be filled as soon as we
receive them. Then, by mid-December, our first version of the PFEX SP/UP
reefer should be ready. Again, keep checking our webpage........if you see a
car's image there, then you can be sure it's available.
As for past cars, our stock of Swifts, and WP Ice Service are getting very
low, and we have no plans to do another run of these two cars, so if you want
one, don't delay. Hoods Milk continues to be our BEST selling car! We've just
ordered still another run of this car.....I believe it's about our 8th
production run of Hoods!
Stock of Central VT Milk is also getting low, although I will probably opt for
one more small run of this car, since it is a fairly recent one.
All cars available in either SCALE or HIGHRAIL versions; Specify.
Planned for early '99: The multi-colored "Banana Reefer", the "Eskimo Pie"
reefer, and another beer car. We're also talking with two organizations
about potential limited-run convention-type cars for both 1999 and 2000.
Doug
Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)
Port Lines Hobby Supply
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Port Lines @ aol.com http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 335 From: Roger Hinds Date: 11/7/1998
Subject: (no subject)
Seems to me, once upon a time, I have seen die cast trees years ago.

The idea has merit. These would make nice background trees. I think I

have seen nice ceramic or plaster trees at christmas time. But as I

recall these would be expensive also.



I use expensive store bought trees in the foreground and hand made

trees in the background. I used branches and twigs for trunks. I got

lychen out in the wilderness and dyed it for the tree foilage. I put the

trunks in hole drilled in the layout. But not too tight. If I bump them

they just lean over a bit. I straighten them up easily. Hundreds of

trees could be made in a weekend using lychen and branches. For more

info. On how to. Ask.



A person could carve various trees into wood into tree shapes. make a

mold from it and make a bunch of plaster trees. Mix latex paint (Foilage

color) into the plaster. That way if the plaster cracks you won't see

white in the crack. Something else should be inserted in the base

(before the plaster sets) for the trunk. A branch for realism. Or a

stiff piece of rubber for some flexibilty. Or a steel rod for an

unbreakable trunk.



Plasticville made trees of course. I would only use these in a TOY train

layout, but not on a model railroad.



Roger "S"wing and

"S"way the

"S" guage way.
Group: S-Trains Message: 336 From: Mac Date: 11/7/1998
Subject: AF 50
I have recently purchased two Franklin Sets. While perusing Mr.. Greenburgs
Guide, I spotted a #50 coach in red. Since I don't recall having seen a red
coach before in the F.Y.&P.R.R., can anyone comment on availability or
scarcity?
Thanks
Mac

The only way of catching a train I have ever discovered is to miss the train
before.

G.K. Chesterton
Group: S-Trains Message: 337 From: David Dewey Date: 11/7/1998
Subject: Re: Structures, and reefers
Doug,
Interesting. Why phasing out the 3 stall roundhouse? Isn't this kit
popular enough? It would seem to be basic to any steam/early diesel era
layout.
So the WP isn't as hot a seller as those of us in the WP historical
society would like to believe! Hmmm, I'll have to work on the guys. I'll bet
it hasn't even been reviewed in the Headlight. I have to do more S
campaigning!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 338 From: W. Thomas Boussum Date: 11/6/1998
Subject: Tender mounted smoke unit repairs.
I read Alan Udy's post for help with a tender mounted smoke unit and
was inspired to write for help with a sluggish one I have. Many years
ago I bought a PRR K5 Pacific, numbered 312, with a tender mounted smoke
unit on board. The guy who sold the train to me told me "... everything
works."
When I brought it home I filled the reservoir wth smoke fluid, put the
train on my layout, and started it up. The train ran great, but no
smoke issued from the stack. After about 15 loops around the layout and
no smoke I took the locomotive off the track and removed the tender
shell. The smoke unit motor on the "everything works" train was not
even there.
At the time I was a member of Central Penn S Gaugers, so I took the
locomotive to the next meeting. One of the members told me that he had
a smoke unit that he would sell me to replace the missing motor. The
following meeting he brought the thing along, and I bought it.
When I got home I pulled my K5 apart and installed the new motor. For
about five years it worked fine, but now the motor will not start on its
own. If I have the shell off I can get the mtor running by manually
starting the armature. But it will not turn just by applying voltage.
I have taken the motor apart, cleaned it, and lubricated it with
LaBelle oil. No go. I also have done the same using trumpet valve oil
(a VERY light lubricant that keeps the valves of the musical instrumrnt
running freely. Still no go. (Incidently, I use trumpet valve oil on
the externals of steam locomotives (side rods, valve gear, and axles).
It keeps them running very well.)
Is there anything else I can do to free up this sluggish motor? When I
manually start the armature the locomotive smokes like a Reading T1
starting up with a 100 car load, not just the wispy smoke that some of
its Flyer brethern produce. That K5 is my most powerful locomotive, and
I have run it pulling up to 35 freight cars at a time.
Thanks.
Tom Boussum
Group: S-Trains Message: 339 From: David Dewey Date: 11/7/1998
Subject: Re: AF 50
Hi Mac,
The (247)50 car goes with the freight set with the Washintion (Blue) locomotive. Like the rest of the set (Cannon car, Gold Belt Boxcar) it's fairly scarce. Greenbergs puts it in a $50-$160 value range. I've only seen them at train shows.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 340 From: Roger Hinds Date: 11/7/1998
Subject: Smoke unit
I have a smoke unit in the tender also. I also hung up. I discovered in
my case that the armature was against the field coil plates. I loosened
the screws and re aligned everthing so they no longer came in contact
with each other. It worked.

If you guys got more than one note on trees it is because of a computer
glich. I got disconnected before the first one got sent and assumed it
did not go through. So I sent it again. I think my computer got a case
of the hiccups :o)

Roger
Group: S-Trains Message: 341 From: David Dewey Date: 11/7/1998
Subject: Re: Tender mounted smoke unit repairs.
Tom,
Does the motor not run by itself when the bellows are disconnected?
It could be that you have one burnt winding on the armature. If it doesn't
start by itself then, then take it apart and do an omh meter test on the
armature segments. I'm not sure what reading you should get. Loco motors
read 1.3 ohms if they're 'right'. Whatever reading you get should be
identical on all segments.
If it's bad, you can rewind it, or have someone else rewind it. Let us
know how it turns out. It could be that the bellows material has become too
stiff. (part of the bellows aging process, not all do it--same problem
happens with player pianos too.
S'
David Dewey
Group: S-Trains Message: 342 From: Chuck Smith Date: 11/7/1998
Subject: Re: AF 50
Mac wrote:
>
> I have recently purchased two Franklin Sets. While perusing Mr..
> Greenburgs Guide, I spotted a #50 coach in red. Since I don't recall
> having seen a red coach before in the F.Y.&P.R.R., can anyone comment
> on availability or scarcity?
> Thanks
> Mac
>
>
> The only way of catching a train I have ever discovered is to miss the
> train before.
>
> G.K. Chesterton
>
>
Look at this month's S Gaugian. A red car is on the shelf in a featured
layout room with a civil war train.
--
"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers and the
S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith
Group: S-Trains Message: 343 From: RBubeck327@aol.com Date: 11/7/1998
Subject: Re: Tender mounted smoke unit repairs.
In a message dated 11/7/98 12:06:26 PM, euler@... wrote:

<<When I got home I pulled my K5 apart and installed the new motor. For
about five years it worked fine, but now the motor will not start on its
own. If I have the shell off I can get the mtor running by manually
starting the armature. But it will not turn just by applying voltage.
I have taken the motor apart, cleaned it, and lubricated it with
LaBelle oil. No go. I also have done the same using trumpet valve oil
(a VERY light lubricant that keeps the valves of the musical instrumrnt
running freely. Still no go. >>

From the symptoms you describe, there are a couple of possiblities to pursue.
(1) The cam gear and push rod to the bellows may have bearing holes that may
require cleaning and/or lubrication, or may have become worn. A second (2)
more likely possiblity is that one of the armature poles of the SIT motor is
defective or the solder joint of one of the poles to the commutator has
broken. The fact that you can physically spin the armature and the motor
starts is consistent with this hypothesis. Check to see if all three pole
wires still have continuity with an ohm meter and visually inspect all three
pole solder joints at the commutator. If all three solder joints appear to be
OK, then the armature probably requires rewinding.

Hope this helps.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 344 From: alice beachy Date: 11/7/1998
Subject: S gauge for children
A recent writer to S-Trains inquired about an appropriate S train to buy
for a child. Years ago I worked at a hobby shop and that is one of the
questions a hobby shop professional can answer that no 17 year old
discount store clerk ever could. Unfortunately few hobby shops carry
serious inventory of S, and that is because there are so few of us
around.

If you want a battery operated train the Ertl set from a couple of years
ago would make a nice set. Scenery Unlimited is advertising them so I
guess Don still has some in stock. If you prefer an electric train I
might suggest a set made up of an American Models FP7 as a possibility.
This is a great looker and runner and does not have many small detail
parts that are easily broken off by a child. Another good possibility
is Ron's Amtrak set.

Finally, I was just reading in S Gaugian the article by Vincent Amato
where he says he still has thousands of new, undecorated Atlantic shells
and tender shells. If there is an investor out there with some interest
and scratch they could take these shells and a new power chassis to make
an inexpensive starter engine and set. I would suggest the same power
unit that the new Marx Trains uses but modified for S gauge. Mr. Amato
has plenty of caboose shells and probably gondola and tanker shells.
Get some track from American Models, SHS or K-Line and use a small
transformer such as that being marketed by Marx and you should have a
steam starter set for under $200.

While much of the new motive power being produced is great, most of it
is too fragile and too expensive for starter sets.

Wayne Beachy
Atlantic Coast S Gaugers
Group: S-Trains Message: 345 From: mhrreast@juno.com Date: 11/7/1998
Subject: Die Cast Trees
I must admit, my tongue was way in my cheek when
I asked about diecast trees. So today I went to a
train show at Syracuse (GREAT show - many dealers
and many layouts), and what do
I find there but tree kits with CAST metal trunks!!!!!!!

Whodathunkit.

Ted Larson mhrreast@...
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/corp/features/space/photoSpace.shtml
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/corp/features/space/todayPictures.shtml

___________________________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 346 From: Boss31@aol.com Date: 11/7/1998
Subject: Re: Alan Udys SIT bellows leak
Alan, just go to a scuba dive shop and get a can of Black Magic rubber sealer
that they use in repairing wet suits. just a tiny drop on the hole(s) you
find will do the trick....Steve Blackburn RMHR
Group: S-Trains Message: 347 From: Craig S. O'Connell Date: 11/8/1998
Subject: Re: Smoking Tender Repair
"Bruce Crosby" <abcrosby@...> wrote:

>I have a friend who has just completed a repair of a bellows on a smoking
>tender. He was able to get bellows material from an AF parts dealer and
>he used a small bead of Walthers goo!! It stays flexible but yet
>holds.....thats what we need and want guys.....

Hi Bruce and all...Folks in the CT S Gaugers have a rather cheap and
inventive way to manage this problem. If you have an old umbrella just cut
out a strip and use it for the bellows material in the AF smoke unit. It
works just as well and it's free!

Craig S. O'Connell
Group: S-Trains Message: 348 From: PortLines@xxx.xxx Date: 11/8/1998
Subject: Re: Trees
In a message dated 11/8/98 4:32:34 AM, you wrote:

<<OK, anybody know of some good, low-cost die-cast

trees? Well, actually, they don't need to be die-cast, but

they do need to be sturdy for portable module use.

>>

Are you familiar with Scenic Express (Pennsylvania) tree kits? They are very
easy to make, look terrific, and will hold up ok to transportation.
SE did a clinic at the 98 Convention, and was VERY well received!!!!
Doug
Group: S-Trains Message: 349 From: mary jo shutt Date: 11/8/1998
Subject: 30b transformer
Does anyone know where I can get the left and right contact lever and
stud assembly for a 30B transformer?? I've checked several parts dealers
Leventons,Hobby surplus and others and they dont have the parts listed
in their current catalogues.
Thanks
Rick
Group: S-Trains Message: 350 From: PortLines@xxx.xxx Date: 11/8/1998
Subject: Re: SIT units
In a message dated 11/8/98 4:32:34 AM, you wrote:

<< If it's bad, you can rewind it, or have someone else rewind it. Let us

know how it turns out. It could be that the bellows material has become too

stiff. >>

I will "second" (or "third") the comments about a defective armature in the
SIT unit. Same thing often happens with diesel armatures.....spinning by hand
gets them started, but they won't start on their own).
If you have bad armatures (or fields), we can machine-rewind for you. We're
also starting to market a new bellows material which is very flexible....not
the stiff rubberized fabric available elsewhere.
Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)
Port Lines Hobby Supply
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Port Lines @ aol.com http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 351 From: Alex Binkley Date: 11/8/1998
Subject: S for sale
Hi guys:
> thought some might be interested in the following sale. It's from Tom
> Parker in Calgary. The Stamps are the Stampeders -- the local CFL team.
> cheers
> Alex Binkley
>
> >
> > Gentlemen: I have just purchased a large S scale collection of over 100
> > pieces of rolling stock(most new in the box) and 7 American Models
> > locos. If you are interested give me a call at Trainmaster Hobbies in
> > Calgary 1 403 241-5409. A large portion of this collection is Great
> > Northern. Go Stamps Go!!!!
> His email address is trainmasterhobby@...
>
> --
> Alex Binkley,
> Hammond, Ontario, Canada

--
Alex Binkley,
Hammond, Ontario, Canada
Group: S-Trains Message: 352 From: Jeffrey Tangeman Date: 11/8/1998
Subject: Re: S gauge for children
At 08:36 PM 11/7/98 +0000, you wrote:
>From: alice beachy <abeachy@...>
>

>Finally, I was just reading in S Gaugian the article by Vincent Amato
>where he says he still has thousands of new, undecorated Atlantic shells
>and tender shells.

>Mr. Amato has plenty of caboose shells and probably gondola and tanker shells.

Gee, I would like to get my hands on a couple of the gondola shells to do up
as Santa Fe.

Were can I get a copy of this article or the entire magazine? What month & year?

Jeff Tangeman
Group: S-Trains Message: 353 From: Ken Zieska Date: 11/8/1998
Subject: weekend report
Friday was a difficult day at work knowing that hundreds of guys were
having fun at the Fall S Fest and that I could not be there. I did take
advantage of a few free minutes in between fall chores to do some
railroading. I took the opportunity to collect more dirt for scenery.
We had a dusting of snow today but soon all the nice dirt will be frozen
under the snow and not available for layout work.
Demolition of the Minnesota Heartland continues and I can attest to the
strength of Hydrocal plaster. Changing layout wiring from OnBoard to
DCC means I am able to remove hundreds of feet of 10 gauge feeders and
make it available to the PPSSW guys for their use. I am glad to say
that the demolition is pretty well complete and now the rebuilding can
start, it is only eight months until the convention and there is much to
do.
I removed some old Pullman turnouts from the layout and was amazed at
how much corrosion had formed where the gauging straps had been. Has
anyone else experienced this? Any suggestions? For now, I am removing
all straps and filing the solder off before I install the turnouts, then
painting them in place.
I was discussing DCC sound with Don Thompson and he mentioned that one
reason the sound of EMD engines is difficult to replicate is that they
have a low frequency resonance that is tough for speakers. This has
caused me to listen more carefully to the SOO as it passes the backyard.
I can now easily tell the difference even if I am in the basement. The
new GE locomotives have a louder exhaust sound (maybe accented by the 4
cycle prime mover) that can be heard at a greater distance. The SD40-2
on the other hand have this resonance that carriers down the tracks for
miles and can be FELT as much as heard. We will offer first hand
examples of that at the S Picnic on Sunday afternoon following the NASG
business meeting.
As Porkey Pig says so well "Da'ts all folks"
Ken Z.
Group: S-Trains Message: 354 From: Donald P. Abrams Date: 11/8/1998
Subject: Smoke in Tender
Adding to Dave Dewey's input, be sure how the rubber tube is routed
between the motor field and the engine shell. It should not be on top
of the windings, but rather to the left or right side. It gets pinched
minimally this way -- therefore the air flow is greatest. Since the
engine was apart for repairs this may be your only problem.

Good Luck,
Don
Group: S-Trains Message: 355 From: Hilary Smith Date: 11/8/1998
Subject: Re: Auto forum
S-Listers:

Although I've yet to act on the S-scale vehicle posts, I regard them as very valuable information.
Surely, as with any post that is not your cup of tea, it is a simple matter to delete it based on the
subject line. <g>

Keep those vehicle posts coming!

Hilary Smith
Northern Virginia

Roger Hinds wrote:

> From: Roger Hinds <cofa@...>
>
> Has anyone noticed that this has turned into a die-cast automobile forum
> to some degree?
> Roger
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> For information contact Paul Yorke (yorke@...) or visit http://www.gate.net/~yorke/smail.htm
Group: S-Trains Message: 356 From: RobertE613@xxx.xxx Date: 11/10/1998
Subject: Track Advice
I'm about to replace my original AF track on my annual Christmas layout with
Gargraves while maintaining my Flyer Switches (6 of them). I've decided on the
sectional track for the 2 main lines and flex for the spurs. Now the
questions.

1. Other than gluing this track down, what's the best way to attach it to the
layout. Should I drill the ties and use screws?
2. Should I solder the sections together? If so, should I do so on the flex
track before I flex it or after?
3. Are there clip-on power connectors for this track or should I solder
direct.
4. What does one do about operating track sections? I suppose I could use a
small piece of Flyer track. (I'm heavy on accessories with lots of operating
track sections.)
5. When I cut track should I use my Zona Saw or my Dremel and cutting wheel?
6. What are your favorite ways of bending this stuff? Jigs, coffee cans, ?
7. Any problems mating to the AF Switches?

8. An unrelated question. I just finished restoring a 350 Royal Blue but still
need to terminate the tender wires to plus into the boiler connector. Anyone
know where I can get these pins?

I hope all this works out. The layout is up to a months continuous work now
before the holidays to get it ready. Next year, I've got my eye set on a
turntable and roundhouse. But then my wife did say we might find space for a
permanent installation. Now that would be a nice Christmas present.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Robert Ellis
Group: S-Trains Message: 357 From: Chuck Smith Date: 11/10/1998
Subject: Re: Track Advice
RobertE613@... wrote:
>
> From: RobertE613@...
>
> I'm about to replace my original AF track on my annual Christmas layout with
> Gargraves while maintaining my Flyer Switches (6 of them). I've decided on the
> sectional track for the 2 main lines and flex for the spurs. Now the
> questions.
>
> 1. Other than gluing this track down, what's the best way to attach it to the
> layout. Should I drill the ties and use screws?
I recommend drilling the ties so they won't split even if nailing. Some
small #2 wood screws are better, placed right in the middle of the
woodem ties or nearly so with the sectional track.
> 2. Should I solder the sections together? If so, should I do so on the flex
> track before I flex it or after?
I don't recommend soldering together so you can fix or revise things
later. If you have screwed down the track you don't need the added
security at the joints. For power, drop jumper wires from each rail
every few sections and bus from there back to the transformer.
> 3. Are there clip-on power connectors for this track or should I solder
> direct.
I usually just solder direct to the outside of the rail. Gargraves does
make a clip that inserts into the rails if you prefer. Again, this
connector makes it easier to maintain things later.
> 4. What does one do about operating track sections? I suppose I could use a
> small piece of Flyer track. (I'm heavy on accessories with lots of operating
> track sections.)
I glue extra partial ties into the Gargraves and then attach 2 flat head
brass wood screws into these. Then I solder a piece of HO code 100 rail
onto the screw heads and solder a lead to this arrangement for an
actuator.
> 5. When I cut track should I use my Zona Saw or my Dremel and cutting wheel?
I prefer the hand saw. The Dremel is hard to line up so it's not on an
angle.
> 6. What are your favorite ways of bending this stuff? Jigs, coffee cans, ?
Don't try to bend it too tight and you can do it as you attach it to the
table.
If you must bend tightly work it around gradually. You'll find the ties
have to be adjusted incrementally to hold the curve after each several
degrees of bend.
> 7. Any problems mating to the AF Switches?
No
> 8. An unrelated question. I just finished restoring a 350 Royal Blue but still
> need to terminate the tender wires to plus into the boiler connector. Anyone
> know where I can get these pins?
Try Doug Peck at portlines@... or web site
http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html
>
> I hope all this works out. The layout is up to a months continuous work now
> before the holidays to get it ready. Next year, I've got my eye set on a
> turntable and roundhouse. But then my wife did say we might find space for a
> permanent installation. Now that would be a nice Christmas present.
>
> Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
>
> Robert Ellis
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
> service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
> http://www.onelist.com/advert.html for more information.
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> List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info - http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Good Luck!
--
"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

(This is not one of those times)

Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers and the
S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith
Group: S-Trains Message: 358 From: John Foley Date: 11/10/1998
Subject: S-FEST
Hi Folks
I had a good time at the 1998 S-Fest in Chicago thanks to the efforts
of the Chicagoland Assn. of S Gaugers. Alan Evans, Jeff Madden and myself
setup
the NASG table. Over $900 in sales with 4 new members. Jeff I am sure will
have
more about fest in the Dispatch.
I contacted the folks who run The Great Midwest Train Show at
Wheaton Ill. on Sunday Nov. 8th. I got a free table to promote S and the
NASG. So very
early Sunday morning Alan, Jeff and I loaded the NASG goods in my car and
after
Jeff jumped my battery we headed for the show. 3 new members signed up. We
passed
out lots of Applications and dealer info to interested people.
Your Friend
John Foley
Group: S-Trains Message: 359 From: kelvin white Date: 11/10/1998
Subject: SP Bloody nose paint scheme
Greetings from across the pond....

I'm currently painting (or a friend) a SHS SW9 into SP Bloody nose
scheme and a AM RS3 into Cotton Belt belt bloody nose.

Can somebody please confirm the following as correct:

SW9: Front of hood, side of running board, and back of cab up to window
level is red. Rest of body & fuel tank : Lark grey. Trucks black.

RS3 End of hoods red, with wings at both ends ?, side of running board
red . Rest of body & fuel tank : Lark grey. Trucks black.

I don't model the SP and have few books for sooo far south !

Your help, comments, corrections appreciated.
--
Kelvin White
Oxford England
Group: S-Trains Message: 360 From: Richard Snook Date: 11/10/1998
Subject: SP Bloody Nose
"S"alutations
to all

With respect SP schemes, as Art will confirm, a time frame will aid the answer, especially the painting of Cotton Belt Diesels, they liked to see what they could get away with!!! i.e. a few variations on themes.Also does your friend have any specific Road Numbers in mind, again the time era might affect, SP loved to restructure its numbering.

I don't have them in front of me, but I do have access to a few reference tomes on the subject,will check for you tonight

cheers

Richard
Group: S-Trains Message: 361 From: Paul Yorke Date: 11/10/1998
Subject: Gargraves Track
I agree with Chuck's comments. I would like to add three additional
comments.
1) There is a learning curve to this track laying, take your time.
2) The rails will not always end on the same tie, go with this, it makes
for a smoother
transition from one track section to the next for your rolling stock.
3) I use Flyer switches with gargarves track. To make the track height
line up I cut (Flyer switch sized) indents in
my plywood using my router. Flyer track is about 1/10 of an inch
high-(rail)-er than Gargarves.

PS. I don't think anybody and anything to say on Monday. No S-Trains
traffic that day.
--
Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl.
American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)
Group: S-Trains Message: 362 From: John Foley Date: 11/10/1998
Subject: Thanks
Hi Folks
Just a quick note to say thanks to Paul Yorke for his article in the
Dispatch on the internet. A good read and very informative. Also congregations
on being our Nov. MEET AN S GAUGER. And thanks for all you efforts on
behalf of
S gauge railroading.
John Foley
Eastern VP NASG
Group: S-Trains Message: 363 From: W. Thomas Boussum Date: 11/10/1998
Subject: Thanks for the input on my SIT problems.
I would like to thank all of the 'S' gaugers who answered my request
for help with my sluggish SIT motor in my 312 PRR K5. I intend to
follow all of the suggestions that I received, working, of course, from
the simplest (and least expensive) outward until the motor turns without
my help. Te suggestions I received run the gamut from instaling new
brushes to rewinding the motor and/or replacing the bellows.
In any case, when I get it back up and running I will write a procedure
up documenting what I did to get it in that state. That will, however,
be a late winter (hibernation) project. Right now I am planning setting
up my Flyers for Christmas. My grandchildren have not seen them running
yet, and are looking forward to the layout since I promised to put it up
for them.
Thanks to Bill Frazier selling me a chassis for my dead Atlantic
recently, I will have a "new" locomotive this year. That tawkes me back
to the halcyon A.C. Gilbert days of the fifties, when my dad gave me a
new Flyer every Christmas.
Tom Boussum
Group: S-Trains Message: 364 From: Paul Yorke Date: 11/11/1998
Subject: Loco Upgrades
got this note today

Subject: steamdrivers
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 12:16:28 -0700
From: "doris byrne" <dorisandtom@...>
To: yorke@...


If they would be availble from american models, is it possible to put
the
AM-4-6-2 drive wheels on AF-steamers. Also some where in the back of my
mind
did I read that some one replaces AF-steam chassis axel bushings with
ball-bearings.
Group: S-Trains Message: 365 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 11/11/1998
Subject: Re: Robert's Gargraves track
One additional point on bending Gargraves, I use an automobile tire as a
form.This keeps the rails even and smooth as they bend, then cut the
rails flush with a fine hand saw.

Staying in S-Gauge track, Glenn
Group: S-Trains Message: 366 From: ClaimsBoss@xxx.xxx Date: 11/11/1998
Subject: Scale vs Hi-rail
I have an opportunity to purchase an American Model's EMD FP 7 however it is
Scale and I run A/F. Will Scale run on A/F? If not, is it convertible? If
yes, at what cost? Thanks for your help!
Group: S-Trains Message: 367 From: Chuck Smith Date: 11/11/1998
Subject: Re: Scale vs Hi-rail
ClaimsBoss@... wrote:
>
> From: ClaimsBoss@...
>
> I have an opportunity to purchase an American Model's EMD FP 7 however it is
> Scale and I run A/F. Will Scale run on A/F? If not, is it convertible? If
> yes, at what cost? Thanks for your help!
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
> service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
> http://www.onelist.com/advert.html for more information.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info - http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm
I have run an American Models scale wheeled FP7 and a couple of GP9s on
my Flyer track for years without any major problems. The track does
need to be flat, well connected (without kinks) and rigid. There was
one problem with the FP7. The rear ladder hit the brake cylinder on the
rear truck enough to cause some derailments, and the AM recommendation
was to remove the ladder. Instead I filed the ladder where it
obstructed and was able to avoid removing it. However, my FP7 is cery
old with the old die cast metal truck sides. I don't know what would
have happened with the newer plastic side frames. The GP9s have no
problem whatsoever.

Assuming the scale engine has a Kadee coupler, you will need a
conversion coupler, available from American Models, or cobble up a
coupler yourself. Another alternative is to put a Kadee on one end of a
car to couple to the engine.
--
"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers and the
S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith
Group: S-Trains Message: 368 From: nsupbnsf@xxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) Date: 11/11/1998
Subject: 350 Connector Pins
I cut off short lengths of 1/16" brass rod, filed the ends to a rounded,
smooth surface, and soldered the tender leads to the other end. Works
fine, though some collectors may say it devalues it.

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
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Group: S-Trains Message: 369 From: Alex Binkley Date: 11/11/1998
Subject: modern prototype group
So far I got Hilary Smith (hilsmth@...), richard snook
(richard.snook@...), Dave Bailey (patndave)enter.net, don
richards (donrich@...) Chris Palmormarez
(ChrisPy_Joe@...), Allen Evens (alevens@... and myself
as folks who are interested in modern
S scale prototypes. Any other takers?
> cheers

--
Alex Binkley,
Hammond, Ontario, Canada
Group: S-Trains Message: 370 From: Richard Snook Date: 11/11/1998
Subject: proto:64 standards
Hello all

After much squinting at the PC, pinching myself with the verniers and probably too much "Duff" I have come up with my interpretation of possible ( BIG EMPHASIS ) possible PROTO:64 standards regarding Wheels and Track. Look for these on Keith Thompsons PROTO:64 site soon http://www.wolfenet.com/~kthompso/Proto64 or if you wish drop me a line and I'll zap them to you. I'm very interested in all comments.

cheer"S"

Richard
Group: S-Trains Message: 371 From: Richard Snook Date: 11/11/1998
Subject: Proto 64 standards (proposed)
Am sending again,apologies for doubling up, I didn't get mine, so assume the same for all!!!

Hello all

After much squinting at the PC, pinching myself with the verniers and probably too much "Duff" I have come up with my interpretation of possible ( BIG EMPHASIS ) possible PROTO:64 standards regarding Wheels and Track. Look for these on Keith Thompsons PROTO:64 site soon http://www.wolfenet.com/~kthompso/Proto64 or if you wish drop me a line and I'll zap them to you. I'm very interested in all comments.

cheer"S"

Richard
Group: S-Trains Message: 372 From: Paul Yorke Date: 11/12/1998
Subject: crinkle
I got this note today....
Subject: AF Accessories
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 22:10:15 +0000
From: mcwb@... (MARIA W BRYAN)
To: S-Trains-owner@onelist.com
CC: mcwb@...

Is anyone familiar with the procedure Gilbert used to get the
"crinkle" finish on the
top of the cattle loader roof?

Bobby T. Bryan,Jr.
Group: S-Trains Message: 373 From: Jeffrey Tangeman Date: 11/12/1998
Subject: Anyone near New Haven?
Greetings fellow S-gaugers,

First,
Does anyone live near New Haven, Conn? I would like to pick up a few virgin
gondola shells and other car parts but Hobby Surplus forgot to send me their
big catalog. Any one desire to be a personal shopper?

Second,

Please explain to an old fan of Flyer pikemaster the difference between
scale and High rail? I read the traffic on the two and I have to wonder. I
read about the wonderful engines offered by American models and Showcase and
I wonder if I need to visit a train shop up in Omaha just to get some old
Flyer tinplate just to run a F-7 that I might buy.

Thanks

Jeff Tangeman

Flyer fan since 1965
Group: S-Trains Message: 374 From: Bill Porter Date: 11/12/1998
Subject: Re: Anyone near New Haven?
Hi Jeff,

The difference is one of fidelity. HiRail is toy trains. They are
wonderful. The Flyer stuff, right out of the box, is HiRail. The track
looks like a toy. The wheels look like toys, the couplers look like toys
and some of the locos and cars are toy-like. That is OK if that is what
you like. HiRail is very popular, especially with collectors and
nostalgia enthusiasts.

Scale looks more like the real thing - just smaller. The track is more
the size that real track would be if shrunk to 1/64th of its initial
size. For example, code 100 track is 0.100 inches high. Multiply by 64
and the equivalent real-world track would be nearly 6 1/2 inches high.
That is pretty close to the size that is used by the heavy, iron hauling
railroads. The 'closeness to reality' principle is applied to the
wheels, couplers and everything else.

Recently, there has been a lot of traffic discussing Proto:64 or P:64
standards. These guys plan to be even more true to scale. They will use
smaller, lighter rail with a slightly wider gauge and the wheels to go
with it. The results can be very impressive, especially in closeup
photos.

I'm a recent convert to S-Scale having modeled in smaller scales for
over forty years. My personal web site has a few pictures of some scale
work. You are welcome to take a peek. As I work on my all-new, S-Scale
layout, I'll be including pix on it as well. The site is:

http://home.att.net/~wpporter/

Right now, I have 2 new, scale engines (S-Helper Service and American
Models) as well as 4 older Flyer engines. I am converting the Flyers to
scale - Rectifiers in place of the reversing unit and scale couplers. As
you can tell, I prefer scale.

You really cannot lose no matter which way you go. HiRail has more
equipment available and the TTOS people as organizational partners.
Scale is receiving increasing support from manufacturers and is more
akin to the work of the NMRA people. P:64 has been a dotted line with
fairly serious practitioners who make up in enthusiasm and knowledge
their absolute lack of numbers. The NASG provides a common organization
for all as does this news group. As in most things, your choice is up to
you. Snoop around a bit, attend an event or two and then make up your
mind. You may find that the interests of the nearby people are more
important to you than the way the track looks.

You don't need to go to Omaha. There are numerous links to company web
sites and to members personal sites that will provide some electronic
visions.

Try:
http://www.btsrr.com/
http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html
http://www.americanmodels.com/
http://www.showcaseline.com/
http://trainweb.com/nasg/
http://www.mcs.net/~weyand/nmra/

I can supply you with contact information on my favorite hobby shop -
they mail order - if you wish.

Great ZOT its,
Bill Porter


Jeffrey Tangeman wrote:
>
> From: Jeffrey Tangeman <jt12313@...>
>
> Greetings fellow S-gaugers,
>
>
> Second,
>
> Please explain to an old fan of Flyer pikemaster the difference between
> scale and High rail? I read the traffic on the two and I have to wonder. I
> read about the wonderful engines offered by American models and Showcase and
> I wonder if I need to visit a train shop up in Omaha just to get some old
> Flyer tinplate just to run a F-7 that I might buy.
>
> Thanks
>
> Jeff Tangeman
>
> Flyer fan since 1965
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info - http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm
Group: S-Trains Message: 375 From: Bill Porter Date: 11/12/1998
Subject: TTOS
Jeff,

I forgot to include the home page for the Toy Trains Operating Society.
It is:

http://www.ttos.org/

Good Luck,
Bill Porter
Group: S-Trains Message: 376 From: Chuck Smith Date: 11/12/1998
Subject: Re: Anyone near New Haven?
Jeffrey Tangeman wrote:
>
> From: Jeffrey Tangeman <jt12313@...>
>
> Greetings fellow S-gaugers,
>
> First,
> Does anyone live near New Haven, Conn? I would like to pick up a few virgin
> gondola shells and other car parts but Hobby Surplus forgot to send me their
> big catalog. Any one desire to be a personal shopper?
>
> Second,
>
> Please explain to an old fan of Flyer pikemaster the difference between
> scale and High rail? I read the traffic on the two and I have to wonder. I
> read about the wonderful engines offered by American models and Showcase and
> I wonder if I need to visit a train shop up in Omaha just to get some old
> Flyer tinplate just to run a F-7 that I might buy.
>
> Thanks
>
> Jeff Tangeman
>
> Flyer fan since 1965
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info - http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm
The difference between scale and hi-rail very simply:

Scale: code 100 rail or lighter with scale wheels, couplers and scale
model cars.

Hi-rail: really means flyer compatible wheelsets and the cars ought to
be scale except for the wheels. A good example of a hirail car is an AM,
SHS or other scale car with Flyer compatible wheels and couplers. Will
run on flyer track or generally down to code 125 rail.
Couplers are problematical. Most hirailers simply run scale model cars
with Flyer compatible wheels and coiuplers. The same cars with scale
wheels and Kadee couplers applied are called scale. Some people assume
hirail also includes Kadee scale couplers. Who's correct? You!

"Tinplate" means Flyer as built. Runs on flyer track, Gargraves track or
scale like track, such as AM code 148 or the new SHS code 125(?).
--
"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers and the
S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith
Group: S-Trains Message: 377 From: Mellon, Jay E. Date: 11/12/1998
Subject: Re: Anyone near New Haven?
Jeff (and S Listers),

The information which Bill Porter provided was excellent, albeit from a scale viewpoint. So, I'll amplify a bit. As I recall, "hirail" is term coined by the scale community to describe track which was constructed at greater height than scale dimensions to allow the operation of equipment with larger wheel flanges (such as AF). Hirail modeling is sort of a hybrid between toy trains (eg. AF) and scale modeling. Hirailers tend to use "toy trains" with scale-like scenery (structures, vehicles, figures, etc.). The meaning of the term has evolved over time (nothing unusual there). Present day manufacturers have definitely upped the ante. Hirail equipment produced by American Models or S-Helper Service are essentially scale products with oversize wheel flanges (but smaller than AF) and oversized, AF-compatible couplers. These products are completely compatible with AF equipment (will run on AF track, etc.). In S, track must be at least code 125 (0.125 in. high) to allow satisfactory operation of AF equipment. Many hirailers are converting their hirail rolling stock to scale Kadee couplers, but leaving on the hirail wheels to get the best of both worlds. When that train is moving, you would be hard-pressed to determine if it is scale or hirail. Hope this helps a bit.
'S'incerely,
Jay Mellon
Crescent City S Gaugers


> ----------
>
> Greetings fellow S-gaugers,
>
>
> Second,
>
> Please explain to an old fan of Flyer pikemaster the difference between
> scale and High rail? I read the traffic on the two and I have to wonder. I
> read about the wonderful engines offered by American models and Showcase and
> I wonder if I need to visit a train shop up in Omaha just to get some old
> Flyer tinplate just to run a F-7 that I might buy.
>
> Thanks
>
> Jeff Tangeman
>
> Flyer fan since 1965
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info - http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 378 From: David Dewey Date: 11/12/1998
Subject: Re: Anyone near New Haven?
Hi All,
Well, there have been wonderful posts explaining the differences between
Hi-rail and Scale, but I think what Jeff really wants to know is:
Will AM Hi-rail locomotives run on Pikemaster track??
Pikemaster has even tighter radiuses than AF tinplate track--if that can
be comprehended! Even AC had problems with it, being forced to widen the
coupler openings on Alcos, shortening the steps on GPs and clipping the
forward facing steps on Baldwins (Yep, that's a factory modification! If
your 5 digit Baldwin has all four steps clipped off, neatly, they're not
broken!). So it's a valid question but I don't have a clue. I have the track
here to test it, anyone want to donate me a locomotive so we can answer this
question? It's for a good cause!! I'd prefer a GM FP7 so I can paint it in
WP CZ after the test! <RBG> Your donation would be most appreciated!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 379 From: Neimanis,V. [NCR] Date: 11/12/1998
Subject: Re: Track Advice
RESPONDING TO:
> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 15:06:36 EST
> From: RobertE613@...
> Subject: Track Advice
>
> 1. Other than gluing this track down, what's the best way to attach it to
> the
> layout. Should I drill the ties and use screws?
* I have used #4 flat heads with countersinking on the ties a foot or
so apart depending on pressure points (curves).
> 2. Should I solder the sections together? If so, should I do so on the
> flex
> track before I flex it or after?
* I certainly have not soldered - it strikes me unnecessary and
inflexible for unpredicted future changes.
> 3. Are there clip-on power connectors for this track or should I solder
> direct.
* I was not aware there were clips; I drilled a small hole and
soldered the wire. If you are working from sidings you can just insert at
track ends.
> 4. What does one do about operating track sections? I suppose I could use
> a small piece of Flyer track. (I'm heavy on accessories with lots of
> operating track sections.)
* That is my next dilemma - either to cut in flyer or build custom
contacts as another AF'er suggested. I think the custom built may look
superior.
> 5. When I cut track should I use my Zona Saw or my Dremel and cutting
> wheel?
I used a dremel with a cut off wheel.
> 6. What are your favorite ways of bending this stuff? Jigs, coffee cans, ?
I built jigs of varying radii and then slowly bent the track slowly
and gradually as per template. The templates can be of artboard or
signboard; something strong but lighter than plywood. In my experience
"coffee cab curves" are not negotiable. The advantage of gargraves is
gradual smooth curves.
> 7. Any problems mating to the AF Switches?
* None in my experience. I used some thin rubber shims on occasion
to even the roadbedded track with the switch.

Good luck with your track laying.

V.Neimanis
Ottawa, Canada
Group: S-Trains Message: 380 From: L Montgomery Date: 11/12/1998
Subject: Snow Cover
Hi Folks,

I'm building holiday train layout using old American Flyer track and trains. I'm hoping to make it a snow scene with perhaps some of the cheap ceramic lighted buildings (with the snow on the roof) you can buy at department stores.

I was looking at our vinyl foam-backed table pad and it would appear to be an ideal "snow cover" because the foam sort of sparkles (and because it can be obtained in long lengths). Unfortunately, the foam backing is green, not white. I've been trying to find it in white without success.

If you have any suggestions for what to use instead, I'd appreciate hearing them.

TIA

Monty
---
Fight Spam! Join CAUCE! == http://www.cauce.org/
Outlaw Junk Email! Support HR 1748.




-----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==-----
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Group: S-Trains Message: 381 From: David Dewey Date: 11/12/1998
Subject: Re: Snow Cover
Monty,
I'd go to a crafts store and get some Dacron filler for quilts. On my
layout I just use sheets for cover, and black art board for the 'streets'.
On the other hand, since it's close to the holidays, you might find some
'tree base' material for draping Christmas tree stands. I remember seeing
this years ago, maybe it's still available?
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 382 From: Paul Yorke Date: 11/12/1998
Subject: protype
Joe wrote me a note to ask.....

Subject: prototypes
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 08:34:33 -0700
From: sigma@...
To: yorke@...

Does anyone know what the prototypes were for Flyer's 2-bay and 3-bay
hoppers?
Joe Pereira
Group: S-Trains Message: 383 From: kelvin white Date: 11/12/1998
Subject: MPSM Sig
In message <910865023.4383@onelist.com>, S-Trains@onelist.com writes
>Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 22:10:28 -0800
> From: Alex Binkley <alex.binkley@...>
>Subject: modern prototype group
>
>So far I got Hilary Smith (hilsmth@...), richard snook
>(richard.snook@...), Dave Bailey (patndave)enter.net, don
>richards (donrich@...) Chris Palmormarez
>(ChrisPy_Joe@...), Allen Evens (alevens@... and myself
>as folks who are interested in modern
>S scale prototypes. Any other takers?

>> cheers

Alex ....I'm hurt, cut to the bone, mortally wounded, shattered, and
despondant that you missed me out :-(

Add me to the list

Thanx ;-)

>

--
Kelvin White
Oxford England
Group: S-Trains Message: 384 From: PatnDave Date: 11/12/1998
Subject: NMRA Memberships
I'm curious, who among us S scale modelers belong to the National Model
Railroad Association? Why are you or, why are you not?
Dave
Group: S-Trains Message: 385 From: Richard Snook Date: 11/12/1998
Subject: Hobby Surplus
Hello all

Jeffrey Tangeman recently sparked my interst when he mentions some goodies available from Hobby Surplus, was looking in the MR and saw an Ad for A "Hobby Surplus" the guys who sell cheap slide switches. Are these the same people, and what "goodies" do they have for we ESSERS ???.

BTW some proposed P:64 standards are now at http://www.wolfenet.com/~kthompso/Proto64/standards.htm (these are yet to be set in concrete, and am looking for feedback) and investigations are under way to evaluate prospects for manufacture of wheels. Please hands up all or any who might be interested , if so how many 33", 36" or 40" (most earlier diesels) would anyone require. Not asking any one to sign their life away here, just need an idea, ask around. Will also pursue avenues and availability of Steam loco drivers, sizes etc.

Happy week end all (its friday here)

Richard
Group: S-Trains Message: 386 From: Roger Hinds Date: 11/12/1998
Subject: Re: NMRA Memberships
Re NMRA membership;
I am not a member (I was) of NMRA for only one reason. It seemed to be
so politicaly motivated to the point it was very annoying. The messages
in the Bulletin was overwhwlmingly VOTE for officers. Anyone running for
a position in NMRA would have a big, VOTE for me, add in the bulletin.

An Anology: Imagine your local politicians packing your mail box every
few months. Very Very annoying.

Members should have the option to recieve the NMRA Bulletin without
any of those adds.

Roger
Group: S-Trains Message: 387 From: Alex Binkley Date: 11/12/1998
Subject: Re: Where to go with Modern S group
> Howdy:
> This note is for the folks who have expressed an interest in the modern prototype S scale group. It is also being posted to the S-trains
list so everyone can
> What I looking for now are ideas on where we go from here. Specifically should we strive to remain an NMRA SIG? As a member of the
NMRA for close to 10 years
> Whether we stay in the NMRA or not, we also have to find a way to communicate with the those who aren't online. I am willing to send a
letter to the non-Nette
> Now the other thing we have to think about is what we want to do with this group. My suggestion would be to set 1970 as the starting year for
our group. That
> For starters I think we need a list of what is currently available in S in the way of suitable motive power, freight cars and passenger cars
for a 1970 to co
> Now once we get all this homework done, where do we want to go? I would like to see more modern locomotives -- American Models promised
SD60 would be a good s
> Anyway enough babble from me. I would like to hear some ideas from the rest of you. Remember this list belongs to all of us. I just started the
ball rolling.
> cheers
> But I would also like some ideas on how we communicate. I am a computer throwback, a technopeasant my kids would say. I can't even set
up a proper mailing lis

--
Alex Binkley,
Hammond, Ontario, Canada
Group: S-Trains Message: 388 From: Bill Porter Date: 11/12/1998
Subject: Re: NMRA Memberships
Hi Dave,

I am a member and I am pretty active in the Sunshine Region. That is the
portion of the NMRA that resides in Florida. Quite simply, I'm a member
because it is fun to be. At the conventions, there are layout tours of
all kinds of layouts - various scales and varying philosophies. I'm not
a scale bigot although my preference is now for S. I'm not a style bigot
- HiRail, tinplate, fully sceniced, bare bones for operation...every
approach has its pleasures.

Through the NMRA, I meet people that love the hobby. That gives us
something to share and therin lies the fun. When the organizational
parts (some call them the politics) get in the way, I choose to ignore
them and to concentrate on the stuff that I like. It is sort of like the
rest of life.

This list is similar. I mostly read the comments of others. Some of the
subjects are very interesting and some are not. But, almost everyone
seems to love what they are doing and the pleasure that they derive
spills over and falls out of my computer. With the NMRA, I get more of
that kind of experience.

Bill Porter


PatnDave wrote:
>
> From: "PatnDave" <patndave@...>
>
> I'm curious, who among us S scale modelers belong to the National Model
> Railroad Association? Why are you or, why are you not?
> Dave
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
> service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
> http://www.onelist.com/advert.html for more information.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info - http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm
Group: S-Trains Message: 389 From: Keith Thompson Date: 11/12/1998
Subject: Re: NMRA Memberships
I'm a member of the NMRA I guess for the same reason of a bad traffic
accident -- you know you're not supposed to look but you do. -- Keith
Thompson in Seattle

At 06:07 PM 11/12/98 -0500, you wrote:
>From: "PatnDave" <patndave@...>
>
>I'm curious, who among us S scale modelers belong to the National Model
>Railroad Association? Why are you or, why are you not?
>Dave
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
>service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
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>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 390 From: Paul Yorke Date: 11/13/1998
Subject: Electronic track trip
I am attempting to assist Brian Johns with an electronic track trip.
Can anyone suggest a Radio Shack cap that would do the job.
See http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/diagram/trip.htm

or some range of mfd and voltages that we could get from an alternate
source. such as
http://www.allcorp.com/

By the way Allcorp (aka All Electronics) has reed switches, led,
grain-o-wheat, micro-switches, etc


--
Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl.
American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)
Group: S-Trains Message: 391 From: Alex Binkley Date: 11/13/1998
Subject: resend of Modern S group note to fix garbles, I hope
> --
> Alex Binkley,
> Hammond, Ontario, Canada

--
Alex Binkley,
Hammond, Ontario, Canada
Group: S-Trains Message: 392 From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade Date: 11/13/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 43
> Message: 13
> Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 18:07:29 -0500
> From: "PatnDave" <patndave@...>
> Subject: NMRA Memberships
>
> I'm curious, who among us S scale modelers belong to the National Model
> Railroad Association? Why are you or, why are you not?
> Dave
>

As a manufacturer, it is a logical thing to have membership in the support organizations.

As a S modeler, membership and participation helps by introducing us to new ideas, with meeting new people, seeing some fantastic layouts in all scales at the conventions, and generally having some more fun with model railroading! Most importantly, it provides a way to tell the world that S scale did not die with A.C. Gilbert! When one of my S passenger cars took first place at a Sunshine region meet a few years ago, it really got the attention of the HO modelers!

The most-often heard negative comment about the NMRA, and to some degree the NASG, is 'what have they done for me?' I think there are two things that the NMRA accomplishes that helps everyone in every scale to some degree.
First is the archive of books, drawings, and mags at the headquarters. As a manufacturer, or even an individual modeler, a call to the library can result in a copy of a drawing or photo coming your way to help with the latest project.
Second, the work on the standards. While just about everyone has some bitch about standards, someone has got to do it. The work on the DCC stuff has provided a platform that will serve modelers well.

The other negative comment heard is about the level of politics in the organization. With any group of more than two people, there are politics! The larger the group, the greater the amount of this stuff. If you don't like what is happening in an organization, why not participate and help change it!

Take care,
Bill
--
=============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================
Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer
Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218
B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com
S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com
Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 393 From: thompson@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxx Date: 11/13/1998
Subject: Re: NMRA Memberships
I'm not a member of the NMRA because i've always been
a die hard GDI (god damm independent), at least until
i became involved in S scale and joined the NASG. :)

kbt

-------------
Message: 13
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 18:07:29 -0500
From: "PatnDave" <patndave@...>
Subject: NMRA Memberships

I'm curious, who among us S scale modelers belong to the National Model
Railroad Association? Why are you or, why are you not?
Dave
Group: S-Trains Message: 394 From: David Dewey Date: 11/13/1998
Subject: Re: Electronic track trip
Hmm, My copy of Barker's book is burired, but I think you could use a RS
Rectifier chip instead of the Diode, and dispense w/ the capacitor. I
believe it's being used as a 'regulator' to smooth out the half-wave DC
being put out by the simple diode. You can probaby use a large voltage rated
capacitor, which may be more common, if you wanted to stay w/the wiring
diagram. Actually, you could still use a capacitor w/the recitfier chip
too, as it doesn't put out 'smooooth' DC, but I doubt the relay needs it,
which, I think, is why the diode is in there. The Recitfier chip is around
$3, I use them in my Action Cabooses, to keep the Brakeman from Humming when
the train is running. He must be a happy guy, because he's almost always
humming while at work! He just doesn't know how to carry a decent tune!<G>
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 395 From: Dave Heine Date: 11/13/1998
Subject: NMRA Membership
Dave,

I'm another one of the NMRA members, and have been for 20+ years. Probably
mostly by default, but another means to meet other modelers. As with other
groups, there have been political problems at times. Also the quality of
the NMRA Bulletin has varied, but currently appears to be on the upswing.

I've found for example, that I've learned something from every layout I ever
visited, no matter what the scale or gauge. Of course, sometimes, what I've
learned is something not to do!

Dave Heine

P.S. I think you signed me up for the NASG about 10 years ago.
Group: S-Trains Message: 396 From: Michael Greene Date: 11/13/1998
Subject: Re: NMRA Memberships
I belong to the NMRA at the National level as a life member. Not at the
division level -- will likely only join the division if the NMRA ever
figures out to how to do dues collection once, instead of once for every
component of the NMRA.

Every volunteer organization has politics, the NMRA is no different. I
don't particularly worry about it.

I joined for two reasons -- the NMRA National conventions are generally
very good (I've been to most since '92), and the NMRA standards efforts.
I've invested a lot of hours working as part of the standards effort for
NMRA DCC, both within the NMRA as well as internationally with MOROP, and
with manufacturers. This activity alone, and the resulting products in the
market (now in use on my model railroad), has definitely "paid off" for my
investment in time and other resources. The NMRA Technical Dept and its
standards framework, provides an excellent environment for those who want
to drive improvements for the hobby -- but it does take a lot of volunteer
work.

Michael

At 06:07 PM 11/12/98 -0500, PatnDave wrote:
>From: "PatnDave" <patndave@...>
>
>I'm curious, who among us S scale modelers belong to the National Model
>Railroad Association? Why are you or, why are you not?
>Dave
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
>service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
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Group: S-Trains Message: 397 From: PortLines@xxx.xxx Date: 11/13/1998
Subject: Re: crackle paint
<<< Is anyone familiar with the procedure Gilbert used to get the

"crinkle" finish on the

top of the cattle loader roof?

>>>
Yes...you use Crackle paint!
We carry it, amongst all the other Gilbert reproduction paints.
The only hitch is that it is only available in crackle-black.........so you
paint an item with that......then overspray it with the regular green.
Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)
Port Lines Hobby Supply
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Port Lines @ aol.com http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 398 From: Arthur Armstrong Date: 11/13/1998
Subject: Re: NMRA Memberships
PatnDave wrote:
>
> I'm curious, who among us S scale modelers belong to the NMRA ..

I responded to this privately but would like to add something about the
common complaints about "politics" - most people seem to disapprove of
politics.

You can't have any formal organization of people - certainly not on the
national level such as NMRA - without politics. Politics is what makes
them work. Without people willing to go through the routines of elected
officers, by-laws, minutes, committee reports, financial statements,
voting, and all the rest of it there would be no organization. All of
these things are politics.

This does not mean that everyone has to be involved in the politics -
most of us are not involved in the politics of our city, state, or
country - but we should be aware of what is going on, question those in
position to make decisions, and express our opinions whenever necessary.

What we should not do is automatically criticize those who are willing
to do these usually thankless jobs and we should not automatically write
off any level of participation by ourselves because of our contempt for
"politics."

Sorry for the sermon.

Art Armstrong
aarmstro@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 399 From: Paul Yorke Date: 11/13/1998
Subject: Webpage Update
I made some cosmetic changes to the http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/
webpage. Let me know what you think.

--
Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl.
American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)
Group: S-Trains Message: 400 From: Roger Hinds Date: 11/13/1998
Subject: Proto 64
Well ---- I finaly saw the articile on proto wheels and track. Looks
good to me. Museum quality. :o) I would encourage manufactures to
consider going this route.
I believe this would require more attention to care in laying track and
switches.
Would this be a problem to newcomers (in model railroading) in making
a layout? Just a thought.

Roger
Group: S-Trains Message: 401 From: Curtis Johnson Date: 11/13/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 43
in response to:
From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...>
Subject: Re: Anyone near New Haven?

Hi All,
Well, there have been wonderful posts explaining the differences
between
Hi-rail and Scale, but I think what Jeff really wants to know is:
Will AM Hi-rail locomotives run on Pikemaster track??
Pikemaster has even tighter radiuses than AF tinplate track--if that
can
be comprehended! Even AC had problems with it, being forced to widen the
coupler openings on Alcos, shortening the steps on GPs and clipping the
forward facing steps on Baldwins ...................

Believe it or not I just ran my 336 SLOWLY around the All-Aboard
Pioneer 600 set last night. It DOES make it, but you got have
real level track!!!
Great posts so far. a pleasure reading all them.
May Friendship and Knowledge Be Yours _ Curt 'Coaler' J
Group: S-Trains Message: 402 From: Roger Hinds Date: 11/13/1998
Subject: Politics
Apparently I have been missunderstood. I realize there needs to be an
election of officers in some organizations. Which means elections. What
bothered me is two things.
Elections was VERY VERY frequent when I was a member.
And The Bulletin was crammed with each persons life history. Inserts
would have been much better. We would have the option to chuck it.
Most of the time the politicians are people I never heard of.
I would be more inclined to vote for people I am familiar with ( by
articles they wrote) and their skills and know how would play a part in
my decision.

Roger
Group: S-Trains Message: 403 From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx Date: 11/13/1998
Subject: F Units
I recently exchanged a few notes with someone from
S-Trains about AM FP-7's;
quality and price.
I have lost your note.
Would you please write to me or call?

Ted Larson mhrreast@...
716-223-0917

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Group: S-Trains Message: 404 From: jim Date: 11/13/1998
Subject: S guage questions
Hi,
I have a few questions that I thought someone in the group might be able

to answer.
1) I was curious if the Lionel Screened Car Carrier would be suitable
for "S" gauge, if I changed the trucks. It looks undersized for "O", but

to me it looked about right for Flyer.
2) I was also curious if I could use HO steam engine drivers on "S"
gauge Hi-rail track if I re-gauged them.
3) Does anyone sell "O" Scale steam engine drivers that I could use for
"S" gauge hi-rail?
4) I have been able to find some plastic drivers, is there any problems
associated with using plastic driving wheels?
I would like to scratch build a freight type steam engine but I don't
know where to get the driving wheels. Any help would be appreciated.
Jim
Group: S-Trains Message: 405 From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx Date: 11/13/1998
Subject: Majorette
Majorette is not the most common brand, but I just
saw some nice modern stuff from them at AMES
(smaller than Target, larger than Woolworth).
Jeep Cherokee
Jeep SUV
Chev Mini-van (dustbuster style)
Small armored truck
Several types of construction machine

JL has a nice 1970 Mercury Cougar convertible.

Ted Larson mhrreast@...
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/corp/features/space/photoSpace.shtml
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/corp/features/space/todayPictures.shtml

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Group: S-Trains Message: 406 From: RxMan46321@xxx.xxx Date: 11/14/1998
Subject: Lubricating axels
What is the method used to lubricate or decrease the friction on axels on
cars? All my cars seem to have a lot af drag associated with them

John Griffin
Group: S-Trains Message: 407 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 11/14/1998
Subject: NMRA OR ANY MEMBERSHIP
The 1993 NMRA Convention in Valley Forge was quite interesting with
some "S" on display and for sale so I joined NMRA at that time. After
about 2 years of the "NMRA Bulletin" and local NMRA meetings with
nothing but "HO" (about 80%) and "N" (the other 20%) advertisements and
layouts I resigned and joined the NASG. I am a member of several
organizations and I need to limit my activities and concentrate on the
ones that I can give time and attention to. I find the NASG best informs
me of the hobby I enjoy. Even Classic Toy Trains can be too much "O"
most of the time. I encourage people to join a local "S" club and put
into it what they can. North Penn S Gaugers has Scale, Sn3 and American
Flyer operators. We are working on projects that all can enter into.

Staying on "S" gauge track with "S" (Gilbert)almost scale trains,
Glenn Ritter
North Penn S Gaugers
Group: S-Trains Message: 408 From: PatnDave Date: 11/14/1998
Subject: NMRA membership
It's good to see the number of favorable responses that came back from my
MNRA membership question. The positive replies far out numbered the
negative few. What's interesting is many of the positive ones parallel my
own
views. I belong to the NMRA mainly so I am counted in the primary modeling
scale of "S". That is most important. Also, the fact that what the
National Model Railroad Association does for our hobby, and similarly what
the Association of American Railroads (AAR) does for the prototype, the
NMRA is the one setting the standards for the benefit of all model
railroaders and is not gauge specific. Most other model railroad clubs or
organizations are gauge specific and therefore are technically no more
than another special interest group.
Another good reason for belonging is the monthly Bulletin Magazine. It has
greatly improved especially over the past year. I look forward to each
issue. It contains many modeling tips from regional chapter members, new
items and when applicable carries NMRA SIG news and updates of "Standards",
"Recommended Practices"(RP) (which BTW also includes S scale[standards] and
Proto:64 [RP])
and other Data Sheets. I remove these and update my NMRA Data Sheet Binder
with them. Of course, like any other magazine, it is not always filled with
pertinent info for me personally so I simply disregard those subjects or
sometimes even the entire issue.
Now for those of you that still might not want to join the NMRA for other
reasons such as cost which is less than one average S freight car, did you
know the NMRA has been offering a annual affiliate membership for half the
price which does not include the Bulletin for only 16 bucks? Now what's
your reason for not joining and being counted as an S scale modeler?
Another thing the NMRA does and puts in the Bulletin is a annual summary of
the total membership and a break down into our respective primary modeling
scales. Unfortunately, every year S scale is nearly the lowest in number
and seems to remain
nearly stagnant showing little to no growth. This is the area I think is
important and would like to see an increase in even if only by a little but
steadily each year because these are the numbers the model railroad
industry looks at.
Dave
Group: S-Trains Message: 409 From: Chuck Smith Date: 11/14/1998
Subject: Re: Lubricating axels
RxMan46321@... wrote:
>
> From: RxMan46321@...
>
> What is the method used to lubricate or decrease the friction on axels on
> cars? All my cars seem to have a lot af drag associated with them
>
> John Griffin
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
> service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
> http://www.onelist.com/advert.html for more information.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info - http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm
Don't know whether you're describing AF, if so whether powdered iron or
sheet steel trucks. However, I have fought this problem also. Tried
LaBelle oil in the journals and it works but doesn't last. However, I
remember from my old typewriter engineering days that open linkages that
had no oil reservoir benefited greatly from an applicqtion of graphite
grease. Another good grease is molybdenum disulfide, which I have no
idea where to get anymore. Either of these lubricants will provide a
somewhat lasting affect. Now that you got me thinking about it I'm
going to try it myself. Note they are somewhat conductive so they will
work best on Flyer cars that have one plastic wheel on each axis.
However, more modern hirail has free rolling needle ended axles anyway
so you don't generally have a friction problem with them.
--
"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers and the
S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith
Group: S-Trains Message: 410 From: kelvin white Date: 11/14/1998
Subject: Lionel conversions and driving wheels.
Message: 15
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 19:01:32 -0800
From: jim <webmaster@...>
Subject: S guage questions

Hi,
I have a few questions that I thought someone in the group might be able

to answer.
1) I was curious if the Lionel Screened Car Carrier would be suitable
for "S" gauge, if I changed the trucks. It looks undersized for "O", but
to me it looked about right for Flyer.

I believe this Autorack is suitable for conversion to the two lacer
racks used for small trucks and vans.

2) I was also curious if I could use HO steam engine drivers on "S"
gauge Hi-rail track if I re-gauged them.

I don't see why not but you may need to look at the profile of the
flanges according to wherther you are into scale or hi-rail

3) Does anyone sell "O" Scale steam engine drivers that I could use for
"S" gauge hi-rail?

Pass...

4) I have been able to find some plastic drivers, is there any problems
associated with using plastic driving wheels?

Are these all plastic? or with metal tyres?
If all platic how are you going to get electrical pickup? Plus plastic
tyres tend to collect more dirt/crude than metal tires.

5) I would like to scratch build a freight type steam engine but I don't
know where to get the driving wheels. Any help would be appreciated.

If you are into Proto64 standards you could use the S scale wheels
available from Alan Gibson here in the UK - what diam do you need?

best regards
--
kelvin white
Group: S-Trains Message: 411 From: kelvin white Date: 11/14/1998
Subject: MPSM --the future
Further to the note from Alex, a few comments from this side of the
pond.

First I should state that I have now (finally) narrowed my own modelling
down to eras 1954 steam/diesel and 1995-to present day.The 1995 date is
because my first visit to the States was in 1995, I'll be over again
next year. My modelling is mostly modern shortline / small regional
rather than SD70s and their GE cousins.

I would suggest that the MPSM constitution (if it is to have one) should
read something like:

Name: Modern Prototype Scale Modellers Sig
(NMRA aligned SIG)

Objective: To promote the modelling of American and Canadian Railroads
in the period of the last twenty years in the scale of 1/64th.

Organisation: An informal grouping of like minded people be they Hi-
Railers or Scale modellers, overseen by a small committee of Chairman,
Secretary & Treasurer (and other ex-officio officers as necessary)
elected annually by simple majority on a postal vote.

Members Services:
1.To provide a e-mail discussion forum on the S-Trains list for all
aspects of 'modern' railroad modelling.

2.To produce a biannual digest / summary of the MPSM e-mail discussions
to those members not on e-mail.

3. To encourage MPSM members to publish articles on 'modern railroading'
under the MPSM banner in the modelling press.

4.To assist in producing information on modelling projects, prototype
information, new products and projects. Information to be available by
e-mail and in hard copy published at bi-annual intervals.

5. To promote with sympathetic manufacturers 1/64th scale products of
use to the membership.

6. To attend and promote the 'modern' modelling of American and Canadian
Railroads in 1/64th scale at model shows and similar events.

Membership Fee: To be determined.


Now let me explain some of the reasoning behind the above.

A) Apart from snobbery and puritanical fanaticism there is no reason why
somebody who is into Hi-rail can't also be into 'modern' modelling. If a
'modern prototype' model is going to be made, it will need all the
support it can get. ie the buying power of Hi-railers is a must. If SHS
can make models that are suitable for Hi-rail & Scale, so others can as
well.

B) The MPSM to be a e-mail group primarilly - it means a lot less effort
and stress for those running the sig.

C) The 'digest / summary' of different e-mail discussion topics can be
better reviewed (edited down?) after six months. It will also serve as a
good record.

D) True the instant news will be six months old, but if you demand for
instant news/gratification is so intense then you are going to be into
e-mail / WWW anyway.

E) Alignment with the NMRA for all the reasons given by Alex.


Finally Alex asked for somebody to put together a list of S scale
equipment suitable for 'modern' modelling.

I'll produce a list for locomotives and freight cars and will append a
suggested wants list (with reasons).

Can somebody else produce a list on passenger cars etc.


--
Kelvin White
Group: S-Trains Message: 412 From: kelvin white Date: 11/14/1998
Subject: MPSM --the future
Further to the note from Alex, a few comments from this side of the
pond.

First I should state that I have now (finally) narrowed my own modelling
down to eras 1954 steam/diesel and 1995-to present day.The 1995 date is
because my first visit to the States was in 1995, I'll be over again
next year. My modelling is mostly modern shortline / small regional
rather than SD70s and their GE cousins.

I would suggest that the MPSM constitution (if it is to have one) should
read something like:

Name: Modern Prototype Scale Modellers Sig
(NMRA aligned SIG)

Objective: To promote the modelling of American and Canadian Railroads
in the period of the last twenty years in the scale of 1/64th.

Organisation: An informal grouping of like minded people be they Hi-
Railers or Scale modellers, overseen by a small committee of Chairman,
Secretary & Treasurer (and other ex-officio officers as necessary)
elected annually by simple majority on a postal vote.

Members Services:
1.To provide a e-mail discussion forum on the S-Trains list for all
aspects of 'modern' railroad modelling.

2.To produce a biannual digest / summary of the MPSM e-mail discussions
to those members not on e-mail.

3. To encourage MPSM members to publish articles on 'modern railroading'
under the MPSM banner in the modelling press.

4.To assist in producing information on modelling projects, prototype
information, new products and projects. Information to be available by
e-mail and in hard copy published at bi-annual intervals.

5. To promote with sympathetic manufacturers 1/64th scale products of
use to the membership.

6. To attend and promote the 'modern' modelling of American and Canadian
Railroads in 1/64th scale at model shows and similar events.

Membership Fee: To be determined.


Now let me explain some of the reasoning behind the above.

A) Apart from snobbery and puritanical fanaticism there is no reason why
somebody who is into Hi-rail can't also be into 'modern' modelling. If a
'modern prototype' model is going to be made, it will need all the
support it can get. ie the buying power of Hi-railers is a must. If SHS
can make models that are suitable for Hi-rail & Scale, so others can as
well.

B) The MPSM to be a e-mail group primarilly - it means a lot less effort
and stress for those running the sig.

C) The 'digest / summary' of different e-mail discussion topics can be
better reviewed (edited down?) after six months. It will also serve as a
good record.

D) True the instant news will be six months old, but if you demand for
instant news/gratification is so intense then you are going to be into
e-mail / WWW anyway.

E) Alignment with the NMRA for all the reasons given by Alex.


Finally Alex asked for somebody to put together a list of S scale
equipment suitable for 'modern' modelling.

I'll produce a list for locomotives and freight cars and will append a
suggested wants list (with reasons).

Can somebody else produce a list on passenger cars etc.


--
Kelvin White
Group: S-Trains Message: 413 From: Jeffrey Tangeman Date: 11/14/1998
Subject: Flyer part Number
Greetings

anyone recall the part number of the rivit that flyer used to hold the PM
truck to the car body? I have a listing for complete PM trucks xa16c084 but
I don't know the rivit #

Thanks,

Jeff Tangeman
Group: S-Trains Message: 414 From: Jeffrey Tangeman Date: 11/14/1998
Subject: Hobby surplus catalog arrived
Well, it finally showed up today, the elusive Hobby surplus catalog. For us
old Flyer fans there are a few goodies with in the pages.

new PM lighted cabooses for 70.00
New Shell tankcars for 25.00 or a kit for 14.00
New casey jones engines for 40.00
Gondola bodies for 20.00

They have even produced decorated gondolas in Hew Haven and Great Northern
for 30.00 with knuckle or PM trucks

reproduction new haven flats with original corvette for 140.00

Plus decorated reefers in ACY, ACL and Evergreen for 25.00 or 35.00
depending on truck style. I would prefer a kit to decorate myself.

I recall that someone was talking about making up Flyer starter sets so...
1. CJ engine- you can't kill these things
1. gondola or flat
1. reefer
and a little red caboose
Plus track and transformer

there you have it.

Jeff Tangeman
Group: S-Trains Message: 415 From: Alex Binkley Date: 11/14/1998
Subject: Re: MPSM --the future
Hi Kelvin:
first of all Hilary Smith has decided he's not a modern kind of
guy so he doesn't plan to be involved with this group. secondly I'm
not sure everyone on this group got my message. My computer system
really is the pits.
also Chuck Smith had a great idea for a modern product for S -- an
EOT device. Great idea.
Your proposed constitution sounds fine. Perhaps the twice a year
mailing and columns in the magazines will be the best way to
communicate with the offliners. Let's see what ideas they come up
with. Maybe we can start a buddy system linking on line and off line
types. Or mail monthly to people willing to pay for the postage.
I also agree that the group should be open to all regardless of the
depth of their flanges. I would take your cut off year would be 1975.
I haven't heard yet about my original message from several people on the
list so it will be interesting to see what they propose.
I suppose the only modern passenger equipment is American Models FP40
and the double decker cars. I keep meaning to ask AM if they have any
undec FP40s which could be painted for Via Rail.
finally Kelvin if you didn't send your note to Paul Yorke, would
you please. I told him we could keep him up to speed.
cheers

--
Alex Binkley,
Hammond, Ontario, Canada
Group: S-Trains Message: 416 From: Curtis Johnson Date: 11/14/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 44
Sorry to repeat myself_______ but I noticed my mail option
had a mistake on its identity: cdbear@...
is correct, NOT as shown below
>
> Message: 12> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 19:41:01 -0500
> From: Curtis Johnson <cdbear@...>
> Subject: Re: Digest Number 43
> ........... ................
> Great posts so far. a pleasure reading all them.
> May Friendship and Knowledge Be Yours _ Curt 'Coaler' J
Guess that was my friday 13th glitch for the year.
" Don't trust your chariot, enjoy the ride;
but safe and back-up your hard-drive.. "
---------------------------------------------------- ;)
Group: S-Trains Message: 417 From: Chuck Smith Date: 11/14/1998
Subject: Re: Flyer part Number
Jeffrey Tangeman wrote:
>
> From: Jeffrey Tangeman <jt12313@...>
>
> Greetings
>
> anyone recall the part number of the rivit that flyer used to hold the PM
> truck to the car body? I have a listing for complete PM trucks xa16c084 but
> I don't know the rivit #
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jeff Tangeman
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info - http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm
The pikemaster trucks apparently used 3 different rivet lengths,
depending on the car body. When I bought some at the York meet the
dealer asked me which of the 3 lengths I needed. Being slow witted at
the time I bought the longest because I could shorten them, and it
didn't occur to me to buy all 3.
--
"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers and the
S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith
Group: S-Trains Message: 418 From: Ken Zieska Date: 11/14/1998
Subject: Weekend Report
It is a drill weekend so not a great deal happening on the Minnesota
Heartland. The rebuild of Asuncion is coming together and I am very
excited about how much better it will look and operate. Thursday when
the PPSSW visits, I hope to get more ideas on the last of the mainline
rebuild. I am very fortunate to have such a great group of friends as
there are in the PPSSW (and they are talented also). The MHRR will be
on the convention layout tours and also open for a picnic after the NASG
general meeting on Sunday. In addition to seeing the layout, the picnic
will make a great opportunity to railfan the Canadian Pacific (SOO) from
the comfort of the backyard.
A thought on the NMRA. I am a member and have made many friends
through my membership. Yes there are politics if you pay attention. I
would also point out that the NASG has had it share of nasty political
issues in the years I have been a member. My membership in the NASG
goes back to the original "life memberships sold in the 60's. I choose
not to pay attention and rather concentrate on the great firiendships I
have made through the NASG.
Ken Z.
Group: S-Trains Message: 419 From: HSage3@xxx.xxx Date: 11/14/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 44
In a message dated 11/14/98 5:10:49 AM EST, S-Trains@onelist.com writes:

<< From: Michael Greene <mgreene@...>
Subject: Re: NMRA Memberships

I belong to the NMRA at the National level as a life member. Not at the
division level -- will likely only join the division if the NMRA ever
figures out to how to do dues collection once, instead of once for every
component of the NMRA.
>>

With the new computer system that has been installed at the NMRA headquarters,
they do have the capability of collecting dues for the regions and or
divisions. That is if the regions and divisions request that national does so.

Harry Sage
Group: S-Trains Message: 420 From: David Dewey Date: 11/14/1998
Subject: Re: Hobby surplus catalog arrived
Gads! the Gon bodies are that much! They used to be $3 each, lettered! I
have some of them sitting in my "future projects" box, waiting for KC truck
sets.
The Shell kits work out well, but you have to ask for the Shell emblem
stickers, or you won't get them with the kit! I put mine on KC trucks, and
used a hair dryer to heat the shell enough to pinch the handrails in place,
using a pair of smooth needle nose pliers--looks like the Gilbert factory
did the job!
I forget the part number for the rivits, they're actually an eyelet, and
do come in three lengths, most dealers have them, and you should find them
in the HSS cat too!
S'
David
PS, I didn't buy too much at the Train show today, but did see a nearly
mint 21004 for $295--it was reealll purty! More AF at this show than most
out here (Sacramento, CA) even an AF layout this year!
I got some parts, a rusty wayside station, a bent & mangled bell danger
w/cracked bell and some 'junk cars' including a Mobilgas tanker with KC
trucks & no stirrups or hatch. Anyone know what color that red is so I can
paint a Gulf hatch the right color?
Group: S-Trains Message: 421 From: mhrreast@juno.com Date: 11/15/1998
Subject: Lubricating Axles
I have had good luck with AF axles by thoroughly
cleaning them with shots of WD-40 (WD-40 is NOT
a lubricant - it is a spray solvent). Then lubing them
with powdered graphite (the favorite lubricant
at Pinewood Derby meets).

Ted Larson mhrreast@...
Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division

___________________________________________________________________
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Group: S-Trains Message: 422 From: Paul Yorke Date: 11/15/1998
Subject: Link Page Update
I just updated the link page.
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/links/links.htm

In addition to adding some links and fixing some others, I also marked
some as 'missing?'.
This way if you know where some one has relocated their web page, you
can let me know and I will fix it on my next update. I want to have the
most complete 'S' related link list on the web. Thanks for your help.

Enjoy
--
Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl.
American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)
Group: S-Trains Message: 423 From: Robin Thompson Date: 11/15/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 44
I let my membership in the NMRA lapse about 25 years ago when I tried
to purchase an "S" scale check gage (the tool) and found out they had
been out of stock for several years and did not plan to re-make them in
the near future. I realized that they were not interested in supporting
"S" scale and felt my money could be better spent elsewhere.
So I joined the NASG and I became involved with the committee
that made the NASG code 110 check gage, which is now, still available.
Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
Group: S-Trains Message: 424 From: LEAHY RUTH A Date: 11/15/1998
Subject: MTH in "S"?
Does anyone know whether Mike's Train House has any plans to do "S" guage?
At one time I had heard he might consider it. Any truth to this rumor?

Mike Leahy
Group: S-Trains Message: 425 From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx Date: 11/15/1998
Subject: (no subject)
I have Alex Binkley, Denis Fortier, V. Neimanis and Michael Taylor listed
as Canadians on S-Trains. Are there any others? Joe Pereira

email:
sigma@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 426 From: PortLines@xxx.xxx Date: 11/15/1998
Subject: Re: Rivets and gondolas
(1) PM trucks were mounted with 3 different eyelets, depending upon the frame
to which they were to be attached. Lengths are 5/16" (PA14A040B); 7/16"
(PA10984); and 9/16" (PA10987). There are also 3/16" eyelets available, but
these were used to mount KC trucks. We carry them all!
(2) Be aware that the GN and NH gondolas which HSS is marketing were NOT made
by them! They were produced by Gil Hulin, of Mainstreeter Models in Oregon,
well-known in NASG. It was also Gil who organized and ran the NASG national
convention in Oregon several years ago. I don't say this to criticize
HSS....just to give credit where it is deserved!
Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)
Port Lines Hobby Supply
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Port Lines @ aol.com http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 427 From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx Date: 11/15/1998
Subject: Re: Lubricating axels
I have had good luck with LaBelle No. 107 for lubricating tinplate trains of
all kinds including Flyer S. LaBelle comes in several viscosities (numbers)
so choosing the correct one is important for some longevity. The suggestions
on the board for graphite-based lubrication are good advice, too.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 428 From: David Dewey Date: 11/15/1998
Subject: Re: Rollin' wheels
Hi all,
Real good suggestions so far. Some I may even try!<G> I find that trucks
tend to build up w/ gunk that is 'sticky' so they don't roll well. Also they
can fill with 'icecicles' from Christmas trees! So first thing is a major
cleaning out, tweezers, toothpicks, etc. and then tuner cleaner, or WD-40
(which, BTW seems to be the best for cleaning wheels of the last bits of
black 'gunk' after you've peeled it off with a flat screwdriver--what,
you've never done this?? Just lay screwdriver tip flat against the wheel
tread and turn the wheel (from the other end of the axle!) against it,
voila! the stuff just peels off!) But keep the chemicals off the car body,
especially the lettering! Then apply fresh lubricant of your choice, noting
that the slintered trucks are supposed to be self-lubricating. One other
detail--axles with rust spots will often have them on the bearing ends too!
When doing major repair/overhauls, I polish the axle ends with my polishing
set up, but you can use a dremel tool with a polsihing wheel and some rogue.
Amazing how many more cars you can pull with free rolling wheels!
S
David
PS, anyone know where I can get matching red paint for the Mobilgas tank
car??
Group: S-Trains Message: 429 From: kelvin white Date: 11/15/1998
Subject: MPSM - Modern Locomotives List
MPSM
S Scale Locomotives suitable for use on layouts set in the last 20 years
(1978-1998)

Still in wide use (1998) on shortlines, regional & class 1 railroads
(as applicable).

River Raisin GE 44 Tonner switcher
SHS EMD SW9 switcher
American Models EMD GP9/18 **
American Models EMD GP35
Overland EMD GP38-2
American Models EMD FP40H
River Raisin EMD SD7
River Raisin EMD SD9
Overland EMD SD40-2
Overland EMD SD50/60

** - can be converted to GP7, and chopnosed with Des Plaines Hobbies kit


The following were starting to cascade down to shortline use in the late
1970s. their use in 1998 is limited to industrial use or a very small
number of shortlines, or preserved locomotives leased to shortlines.

American Models BLW S12 switcher
Railmaster EMD NW2 switcher
Railmaster ALCO S2/4 switcher
Sunset/Miller ALCO S4 switcher
Railmaster ALCO RS1
Railmaster ALCO RS3
American Models ALCO RS3
Railmaster ALCO RSD4/5
Overland ALCO RS11
Overland MLW RS18
Overland ALCO RS32
American Models ALCO FA2 & FB-2 unit
Omnicom BLW RF-16
Wabash Valley EMD F7 & F7B
American Models EMD FP7
American Models EMD FB

It is recognised that the above division is subjective - study your
prototype to guide you.

American Models ALCO PA not listed nearly all(?) withdrawn by late
1970s. AF GP20 not listed - I�m not sure how accurate it is?
Note some early brass is also not listed.

Locomotive wish list.

A subjective list but with the criteria that the locomotives were in use
in 1978 and are still in popular use in 1998. Thus most of the GE U
boats (now fairly rare beasts - almost as much as Alcos) are not
included..

EMD SW 1500 switcher modern equivalent of the SW9
EMD MP15 remanufactured GP9
EMD GP38-2 or GP40 - increasingly being used by larger shortlines
EMD SD40-2 still the mainstay of a larger number of class 1& regional
railroads
plus
CF7 body kit for AM chassis.
GP8/10 Paducah Shops conversion kit
Flexcoil trucks for the SW9/1200


Modern Freight Cars list - next weekend.
--
Kelvin White
Oxford England
Group: S-Trains Message: 430 From: kelvin white Date: 11/15/1998
Subject: MPSM - cut off dates
In message <911123267.22689@onelist.com>, S-Trains@onelist.com writes
>Message: 10
> Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 17:08:15 -0800
> From: Alex Binkley <alex.binkley@...>
>Subject: Re: MPSM --the future
>
>Hi Kelvin:
> Your proposed constitution sounds fine. Perhaps the twice a year
>mailing and columns in the magazines will be the best way to
>communicate with the offliners. Let's see what ideas they come up
>with. Maybe we can start a buddy system linking on line and off line
>types. Or mail monthly to people willing to pay for the postage.
> I also agree that the group should be open to all regardless of the
>depth of their flanges. I would take your cut off year would be 1975.

No, the cut off for now would be 1978, next year it would be 1979, ie
the last 20 years from where we are now. Maybe some will feel 20 years
is too restrictive and the SIGs interest should be the last 25 years ???

--
Kelvin White
Oxford England
Group: S-Trains Message: 431 From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx Date: 11/15/1998
Subject: Re: Rollin' wheels
In a message dated 11/15/98 1:32:54 PM, djdewey@... wrote:

David said:

<<So first thing is a major

cleaning out, tweezers, toothpicks, etc. and then tuner cleaner, or WD-40

(which, BTW seems to be the best for cleaning wheels of the last bits of

black 'gunk' after you've peeled it off with a flat screwdriver--what,

you've never done this?? Just lay screwdriver tip flat against the wheel

tread and turn the wheel (from the other end of the axle!) against it,

voila! the stuff just peels off!) But keep the chemicals off the car body,

especially the lettering! >>

The screw driver blade trick works very well much of the time. I have found
LGB smoke fluid to be great to get the more stubborn stuff off of the wheels.
The LGB fluid is plastics safe (It has to be since the exterior shells of all
LGB rolling stock and engines are ABS plastic.), but please be careful of hot-
stamped lettering, stickers, etc. LGB smoke fluid is also a great track
cleaner, too, and it can often bring AF steam engines, which may have become
difficult smokers, back to life without overhauling the smoke unit.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 432 From: esquivel Date: 11/15/1998
Subject: Re: Webpage Update
hello, does anybody have an extra gabe the lamplighter? i am also looking
for a guilford animated station button.
thanks, esquivel

----------
> From: Paul Yorke <yorke@...>
> To: s-trains@onelist.com
> Subject: [S-Trains] Webpage Update
> Date: Friday, November 13, 1998 6:14 PM
>
> From: Paul Yorke <yorke@...>
>
> I made some cosmetic changes to the http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/
> webpage. Let me know what you think.
>
> --
> Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl.
> American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers
> http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
> service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
> http://www.onelist.com/advert.html for more information.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info -
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm
Group: S-Trains Message: 433 From: Richard Snook Date: 11/15/1998
Subject: Proto:64
Hello all

OK, firstly thanks for all the feed back so far and I hope more to come, my desire is being fulfilled.i.e the EVOLUTION of WORKABLE and AVAILABLE standards , recommended practices, design parameters, tolerances ad infinitum.. Please note I am not the keeper, but a messenger; my purpose is to facilitate, not to dictate. I have heard a bit about past efforts to do like and these people are to be lauded for there efforts. Some info is starting to leech its way back to the surface and that is marvellous. But please , let us stand back and realise what it is we ( myself and like minded) are trying to accomplish. I AM aware of the standards and rec practices as outline by the NMRA and NASG( most worthy organisations, serious ,not tongue in cheek, I wouldn't have bothered joining them if not) but they have NO final and definite dimensions for Proto:64, there is an effort regarding S-Fine , this is not the same and should never be mistaken for it. The ball was dropped at P:48, and for some time it has be left, sitting there all lonely. It has been left to indivuduals to evolve there own "standards" and these might and probably are different. It is this very situation that my primary efforts are directed.

And so the ball is picked up!! and played with a little, and so a team forms, and the "practice" is honed to a fine edge and we have both synergy and common goal, and eventually a result.

As mentioned previously my efforts so far are not ( nor could ) be set in concrete. I don't have ownership, it belongs to us all. Neither does anyone or any_body have absolute franchise on "standards " or other terms. If no one else is to cater to OUR needs then we must do it ourselves.

Good fun all this isn't it??

I am very aware of the problems of different parties going off in different direction, using differnt numbers etc, that is what Iam endeavouring to prevent.. Keep in mind the end result will not necessarily be everyone's cup of tea.

I am also aware that no-one is going to manufacture without some ratified standard. I will ask the question though who is it to ratify?? I ask this is the light of also asking who are going to use the "standard" ( both now and future ) Not as straight forward really as you first think, not to me at least. Please note I am not trying to set one organisation against another, nor person nor group against same.

Also I was simply trying to garner an idea of numbers, the specific wheel dimensions is almost irrelevant other than it is different to that which is available now, so if some one is going to make something to order then, given that the design is no big deal, then numbers IS a governing aspect. Keep in mind this is all "ball-park" at the moment, various people are working to establish the viability of the process not its absolute result.

A number have asked (rightly too) how the dimensions were arrived at. Yes there is a typo of sorts, the dimensions for "P" seemed to have changed alliances, .819 is the NASG figure. As time permits I am putting together a summary of the method and objectives of this excercise.

PLEASE, PLEASE this is an evolving process, nothing is agreed , ratified or otherwise. I have yet to get responses from some whose impute I would highly regard.

So there you have it, enough waffle, hey guys , this has only just started, hopefully it won't take too long to get some consensus and get those "common standard P:64 " wheels rolling down the track. I am only too glad of help..Rome wasn't built by itself

enuff "S"aid

:-) Richard
Group: S-Trains Message: 434 From: Robin Thompson Date: 11/15/1998
Subject: Re: MTH in "S"?
Dear Mike,
MTH makes two S Scale buildings, "the farm house" and "the country
house". Does that count?
Don Thompson
Group: S-Trains Message: 435 From: Vic Bereskin Date: 11/15/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 44
The capacitor in this diagram is being used as a filter to remove the 60 Hz.
noise from the rectified voltage and thereby reduce the potential for relay
chatter. There is no problem in this type of application with using a
larger capacitor. The 10 uF 35 volt capacitor, Radio Shack catalog number
272-1013 would be a good choice. Be very careful to observe polarity on the
diode (i.e. the end with the band painted around it) and the capacitor and
be sure they are both the same as in the diagram. Electrolytic capacitors
hooked up backwards have been know to produce loud unpleasant noises
something like BANG.


>Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 1998 06:30:21 -0500
> From: Paul Yorke <yorke@...>
>Subject: Electronic track trip
>
>I am attempting to assist Brian Johns with an electronic track trip.
>Can anyone suggest a Radio Shack cap that would do the job.
>See http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/diagram/trip.htm
>
>or some range of mfd and voltages that we could get from an alternate
>source. such as
>http://www.allcorp.com/
>
>By the way Allcorp (aka All Electronics) has reed switches, led,
>grain-o-wheat, micro-switches, etc
>
>
>--
>Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl.
>American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers
>http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)
Group: S-Trains Message: 436 From: Roy E. Plotnick Date: 11/15/1998
Subject: An "Arggh" moment
So there I am, watching these two women unwrap an AF train
set that had not been used for 40 years. Out came a Northern engine,
a Gilbert chemical car, a searchlight car, NP reefer, a bubbling water
tower and other
goodies, all in excellent condition. One woman turns to me and says
"Worth at least $200-300, right?" One of those moments a collector,
especially one on a tight budget, dreams about. Unfortunately, all of this
was taking place in front of the owner of a local hobby shop, who was
being offered the set for sale. Arrgh! All I could do was tell the woman
(outside the shop; why piss off the owner who I have to deal with in the
future?) :
"Well they're worth quite a bit more than that; if he offers you that much
($200-$300)
walk away. Here's my number." I didn't hear from her so I presume he
bought it - Roy


Roy E. Plotnick
Professor
Department of Earth and Environmental Sciences
University of Illinois at Chicago
845 W. Taylor St.
Chicago, IL 60607
plotnick@...
phone: 312-996-2111 fax: 312-413-2279

"The scientific celebrities, forgetting their molluscs and glacial
periods, gossiped about art, while devoting themselves to oysters
and ices with characteristic energy.." -Little Women, Louisa
May Alcott
Group: S-Trains Message: 437 From: Joseph F Haenn Date: 11/15/1998
Subject: NMRA Membership
I am not an NMRA member for many of the same reasons that I have not
joined either TTOS or other organizations. They are not very active or
visible in this area and do not seem to have a high degree of relevance
to my interests. In addition, with my civic interest as president of the
volunteer fire company and Ruritan Club, maintaining a full-time daytime
job, and an increasing amount of time to train repairs, train shows and
my mail order AF parts business, my time for any other involvement is
nil.

I am not a scaler, but have recently moved from a Flyer operator to gain
more interest in highrail and some aspects of scale operations. I even
joined NASG several years ago. However, I definitely will never become a
scratch builder nor become a person with high degree of attention to
detail and fidelity. I definitely get my jollies out of simple
operation, including accessories. I am a member of both TCA and VTC
(Virginia Train Collectors). I enjoy the mechanical aspects of the
hobby.

Fortunately, our new club (Atlantic Coast S Gaugers) accomodates the
entire range of S scale. In less than 6 months, we grew from nothing to
more than 30 members. We operated a 14 by 18 foot modular layout
consisting of 14 modules, with one extra) this weekend at the Neuse River
Model Railroad Show in Raleigh, NC which drew great attention from the
public. We were able to pass out a considerable amount of S-related
information, and probably recruited more than a half dozen new members.
We use Flyer hi-rail track, but run everything from original Gilbert
Flyer to fine scale, and use both AC and DC power sources.

I believe, at least at this time, that our future in S depends upon this
wide ranging accomodation of everybody. I do not mind areas of
specialization, but hope that they do not fragment our numbers. I also
hope that no segment of this gauge feels they are superior or inferior to
any other aspect. We all need each other. That is why I like the
suggestion that we encourage more manufacturers to do like S-Helper
Service and provide models with a wide appeal to the majority of this
spectrum of S gaugers.

Of course, this is all just one person's opinion.

Joe

Joes Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613
404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338
Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer
American Models ################### S-Helper Service
joes-train-repair@... Master Charge/Visa

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
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Group: S-Trains Message: 438 From: Keith Thompson Date: 11/16/1998
Subject: Re: MPSM - Modern Locomotives List
Hi Paul,

While valuable, the locomotive list is more to do with the modern modelers
and not the Proto 64 movement. I can put together some "modern S" pages in
short order but unfortunately I'm considered an old-timer since I model
1968. Therefore it might be better if Alex or Kelvin take the reins on a
Modern S web site. -- Keith Thompson in Seattle.

At 08:20 PM 11/15/98 -0500, you wrote:
>This info should be on the web.
>is Keith going to add it to the proto page?
>
>--
>Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl.
>American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers
>http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 439 From: Keith Thompson Date: 11/16/1998
Subject: Re: MTH in "S"?
I scaled out the MTH two-story station and it's awfully close to S too. --
Keith Thompson in Seattle

At 08:32 PM 11/15/98 -0500, you wrote:
>From: Robin Thompson <robin@...>
>
>Dear Mike,
> MTH makes two S Scale buildings, "the farm house" and "the country
>house". Does that count?
>Don Thompson
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
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http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 440 From: sigma@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Date: 11/16/1998
Subject: roof styles
Will someone please define for me "Madison roof"? Joe Pereira


email: sigma@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 441 From: sigma@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Date: 11/16/1998
Subject: mainline modeler
Searches on the web keep turning up e-mail addresses for Mainline
Modeler/Hundman Publishing that don't work. Does anyone have one that
does? Joe Pereira

email: sigma@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 442 From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com Date: 11/16/1998
Subject: electric track trip
RF Giardinia sells one. I think for twenty-something dollars. Haven't
bought any, but my impression is they're a replacement for the AF 670.
Senses when the train crosss over gap in ties. Needs metal wheels to
activate
Group: S-Trains Message: 443 From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com Date: 11/16/1998
Subject: new Casey by H-Surplus
Is that similar to the 21165 or 21168 (with smoke and choo choo)? Thanks.
Group: S-Trains Message: 444 From: Richard Snook Date: 11/16/1998
Subject: modern group
Morning all!! (it is here)

Regarding the "modern group" , I think the outline by Kelvin is very good..maybe if we describe it as referring to the modern generation of rail practices, and a generation being typically 25 years then the "group's" focus is on the most recent 25 years, and that as Kelvin points out is a fluid thing..but there is a lot of equipment running around today that easily has a heritage much more than this. Personally I'm quite happy to look at stuff in the last 25 plus a few years... quite happy to fudge the time parameter a bit...adds to the flavour.. I model the nineties, but you can't look at this in isolation, just focus on it.

Have to admit some of the more modern pedigree locos are really going to look something in 'S"...14"-15" long!! But then maybe an F7 pulling a"dinner" train or a heritage special

But having said that an interesting benefit of any concerted effort by any group to get something else on the shelf is the spin-off to other modellers who on the surface might not have realised the transera nature of much in railroading.

I say this to point out that some efforts or projects might have more appeal and support and it might be worth a look by thse who aren't necessarily modelling the "modern era" to see what we might be doing..but I acknowledge that an SD90MAC is pretty year specific!!

cheer's

Richard :-))
Group: S-Trains Message: 445 From: GPMLG@aol.com Date: 11/16/1998
Subject: Detail Parts
I would like to detail a PA, looking for grab bars.
Please send info.
Thanks,
choochoo64@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 446 From: Milorod@aol.com Date: 11/16/1998
Subject: Re: NMRA membership
I'm not only a national member, but also belong to the Sunshine Region here in
Fla.
Milo Rodriguez
Group: S-Trains Message: 447 From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx Date: 11/16/1998
Subject: Canadian S-scalers
It seems that S-Trains has only a handful of Canadian subscribers. This is
disappointing to me, but if I were easily discouraged I would have quit S a
long time ago.
I am starting a private campaign to recruit more Canadians for S-Trains,
but I know it's going to be tough, and slow.
As a result of my involvement in the organization of S Canada I have the
names of almost 200 S-scalers in this country but so far I have e-mail
addresses for only 21 of them. Still, that's a start, and as the Chinese
say the journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
Meanwhile the situation from a Canadian point of view is not as desperate
as I make it sound. There are modellers in the United States, Australia, the West
Indies and the United Kingdom who are members of S Canada and subscribers to
Canadian S Scale Quarterly. So I know that there are quite a number outside Canada
who have interests in common with people like myself.
My specific interests, I should tell you, are focused on two years: 1919
and 1959
. I model Canadian National and Northern Alberta Railways as of 1959
because that was the last year in which we had both branch-line passenger
service and steam in this part of the country. And I model the railways of
this area as they were in 1919 because that was the last year in whch they
included "the McArthur lines"(predecessors of Northern Alberta Railways),
plus the Canadian Northern and Grand Trunk Pacific (predecessors of
Canadian National). Onward to yesterday.
The word "challenge" acquires new meaning if you decide that you really
want an S-scale model of a 10-wheeler built in 1915 by Canadian Locomotive
Company for the Alberta & Great Waterways Railway.
Since I run on code .148 rail I am able to use Flyer conversions, and
since I operate on direct current I can use the more recent output
ofcompanies like Omnicon as well as American Models, S-Helper Service and
others. So I really haven't much to whine about.
I look forward to the exchange of information and views with other
subscribers, whether about modelling the rolling stock of the Edmonton,
Dunvegan & British Columbia or about S-scale generally. Or even about
what Lionel has not done for us lately. Joe Pereira



email: sigma@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 448 From: Alex Binkley Date: 11/16/1998
Subject: need to contact Don Richards
If Don Richards who was interested in the modern prototype group is on
this list, would he please contact me. I seem to have the wrong e-mail
address for you.
cheers
--
Alex Binkley,
Hammond, Ontario, Canada
Group: S-Trains Message: 449 From: Bill Porter Date: 11/16/1998
Subject: Modern Stuff
Hi All,

Brother Snook makes good points again, as always. Here is another point
to ponder. Although I don't plan on a modern railroad, I may be
occasionally tempted to obtain a museum piece or two for display. I
don't model old-time either, but, my collection contains a 'General' and
will always have space for those old wood burners. When there are good
modern models, they will have a place as conversation pieces or as
remembrances of a happy occasion.

Bill Porter
Group: S-Trains Message: 450 From: Bilfrazier@xxx.xxx Date: 11/16/1998
Subject: Re: Modern locomotives
I would like to add to the excellent list that Kelvin posted the following:

American Models GG1
Steam Depot GE 44 ton switcher
Ertl EMD GP35

I know this last one might seem odd, but it IS S scale and can be modified
and detailed. Mine has lots of extras including S Helper wheels, AM handrails
Microscale decals and KD couplers!

Bill Frazier


From: kelvin white <kelvin@...>
Subject: MPSM - Modern Locomotives List

MPSM
S Scale Locomotives suitable for use on layouts set in the last 20 years
(1978-1998)

Still in wide use (1998) on shortlines, regional & class 1 railroads
(as applicable).

River Raisin GE 44 Tonner switcher

SHS EMD SW9 switcher
American Models EMD GP9/18 **
American Models EMD GP35
Overland EMD GP38-2
American Models EMD FP40H
River Raisin EMD SD7
River Raisin EMD SD9
Overland EMD SD40-2
Overland EMD SD50/60

** - can be converted to GP7, and chopnosed with Des Plaines Hobbies kit


The following were starting to cascade down to shortline use in the late
1970s. their use in 1998 is limited to industrial use or a very small
number of shortlines, or preserved locomotives leased to shortlines.

American Models BLW S12 switcher
Railmaster EMD NW2 switcher
Railmaster ALCO S2/4 switcher
Sunset/Miller ALCO S4 switcher
Railmaster ALCO RS1
Railmaster ALCO RS3
American Models ALCO RS3
Railmaster ALCO RSD4/5
Overland ALCO RS11
Overland MLW RS18
Overland ALCO RS32
American Models ALCO FA2 & FB-2 unit
Omnicom BLW RF-16
Wabash Valley EMD F7 & F7B
American Models EMD FP7
American Models EMD FB

It is recognised that the above division is subjective - study your
prototype to guide you.

American Models ALCO PA not listed nearly all(?) withdrawn by late
1970s. AF GP20 not listed - I�m not sure how accurate it is?
Note some early brass is also not listed.

Locomotive wish list.

A subjective list but with the criteria that the locomotives were in use
in 1978 and are still in popular use in 1998. Thus most of the GE U
boats (now fairly rare beasts - almost as much as Alcos) are not
included..

EMD SW 1500 switcher modern equivalent of the SW9
EMD MP15 remanufactured GP9
EMD GP38-2 or GP40 - increasingly being used by larger shortlines

EMD SD40-2 still the mainstay of a larger number of class 1& regional
railroads
plus
CF7 body kit for AM chassis.
GP8/10 Paducah Shops conversion kit
Flexcoil trucks for the SW9/1200
Group: S-Trains Message: 451 From: joes-train-repair@xxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: 11/16/1998
Subject: S Gauge Rogues
David Dewey wrote:

<When doing major repair/overhauls, I polish the axle ends <with my
polishing
<set up, but you can use a dremel tool with a polsihing <wheel and some
rogue.
=====

I know that many S gaugers are different and very talented, but just
where do you find these "rogues" to help you polish your wheels? :<) :<)

Joe

Joes Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613
404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338
Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer
American Models ################### S-Helper Service
joes-train-repair@... Master Charge/Visa

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
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Group: S-Trains Message: 452 From: joes-train-repair@xxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: 11/16/1998
Subject: Re: MTH in "S"?
Mike Leahy wrote:

>Does anyone know whether Mike's Train House has any plans >to do "S"
guage?
>At one time I had heard he might consider it. Any truth >to this rumor?

I do not have an answer to this question, but Wayne Beachy should have
one by next week. That is when Mike speaks to the Virginia Train
Collectors and answers pre-submitted questions. Wayne submitted one that
might shed some light on MTH's future plans in S gauge.

Joe Haenn

Joes Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613
404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338
Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer
American Models ################### S-Helper Service
joes-train-repair@... Master Charge/Visa

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Group: S-Trains Message: 453 From: Richard Snook Date: 11/16/1998
Subject: modern loco
Yep have to agree with Bill, I intend to eventually have a go at one of V & T conversions for a SHAY and run it on a tourist special, something about watching all those gears turn and pistons pump!!

Now regarding PA's, a certain Mr Rowland ( of GS4 etc fame) is to put a PA back in service in WABASH colours, or so I'm led to believe, now surely that is going to tour the country (alas not in Daylight colours, but isit IS a PA ); we Modern guys a are little sentimental at times, well this one is!! ah A GS4 in Daylight varnish on the Shasta line, yep that been done in the Nineties, ain't modern Railroading grand???

:-)) Richard
Group: S-Trains Message: 454 From: RB Date: 11/16/1998
Subject: American Flyer track
I'm looking for suppliers of original Am Flyer track...new or used.
Anyone
know of any?
Thanks.
skeeze@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 455 From: Mac Date: 11/17/1998
Subject: (no subject)
From: joes-train-repair@... (Joseph F Haenn)

Subject: S Gauge Rogues

David Dewey wrote:

<When doing major repair/overhauls, I polish the axle ends <with my

polishing

<set up, but you can use a dremel tool with a polsihing <wheel and some

rogue.

=====

I know that many S gaugers are different and very talented, but just

where do you find these "rogues" to help you polish your wheels? :<) :<)

Joe

I have had quite a bit of luck outside the "Trackside Tavern", usually after
midnight on Friday. Of course, time may vary depending on your geography.
:-)



The only way of catching a train I have ever discovered is to miss the train
before.

G.K. Chesterton
Group: S-Trains Message: 456 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 11/17/1998
Subject: original AF track
Try ebay. Lots of track come up for sale. If you watch and bid carefully
you can get some pretty good deals ($.5-.75 per piece). However, not
always, some items, including track, just get bid up in the frensy.
Perhaps by folks who might otherwise not have access to shows, etc.
www.ebay.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 457 From: W. Thomas Boussum Date: 11/16/1998
Subject: Canadian 'S' gaugers
Joe,
My website, Tom's Meanders, at
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hall/3703
has a link to S-Canada, a website of Canadian 'S' gauge which has sme
interesting links to ther 'S' gauge groups. The text at the site s in
French, but you might be able to use it to find some other Canadian 'S'
gaugers.
W. Thomas Boussum
Group: S-Trains Message: 458 From: JOPKE, WALTER Date: 11/17/1998
Subject: Modern Locomotive Wish List
Kelvin,

Please do not forget the SD-45 on your list. There are still plenty of
these "beasts" roaming around the Twin Cities area and other parts of the US
I have visited. The original SD-45 (GN #400 "Hustle Muscle") is still in
use, albeit in excursion duty. I can think of no more needed locomotive in
S than this one.


Locomotive wish list.

A subjective list but with the criteria that the locomotives were in use
in 1978 and are still in popular use in 1998. Thus most of the GE U
boats (now fairly rare beasts - almost as much as Alcos) are not
included..

EMD SW 1500 switcher modern equivalent of the SW9
EMD MP15 remanufactured GP9
EMD GP38-2 or GP40 - increasingly being used by larger shortlines
EMD SD40-2 still the mainstay of a larger number of class 1& regional
railroads
plus
CF7 body kit for AM chassis.
GP8/10 Paducah Shops conversion kit
Flexcoil trucks for the SW9/1200
Group: S-Trains Message: 459 From: John Foley Date: 11/17/1998
Subject: S-Club L.I. N.Y.
Hi Folks

If there is anyone who lives on Long Island NY on the S-list, Benton
Schoonmaker
is interested in forming an S club on Long Island NY. You can call Benton at
516-224-7156 or drop him a line at 329 Maplewood St. Islip Terrace NY 11752

Your friend
John Foley
Group: S-Trains Message: 460 From: Robin Thompson Date: 11/17/1998
Subject: Re: Detail Parts
Dear Choo Choo,
Try BTS for FA parts. Many of these are the same.
Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 461 From: Ross M Roberts Date: 11/17/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 47
Track prices and availability as of January 1998:

Martin Cohen 286 W. Henrietta Ave. Oceanside NY 11572-5010
Used American Flyer / Extensive List
Track Straight Track Curved Track 1/2 Curved
E,E- / Orig Box of 12 $20.00 E / Orig Box of 12 $3.00 VG + / 1 $0.30
E- / 1 $1.25 VG / 1 $0.30
VG + $0.90 VG / Lot of 100 $18.00 Track 1/2 Straight
VG / Needs Cleaning $0.65 F / Rusty Free VG + / 1 $0.35
E / Pikemaster $0.25
K Line S gauge K Line S gauge
Track Straight Track Curved
LN $2.00 LN / 1 $1.00
Track Curved - wide radius
LN / 1 $3.00

Gary Kliman 5333 Norbeck Rockville MD 20853 LSASE
700 Track Straight 702 Track Curved
VG / Lot of 2 $1.00 VG / lot of 5 $1.25
(1 free with 5 curve) (includes 1 free straight)

George Konig Box 2433 Kensington MD 20891
LSSAE for AF List
700 Track Straight 702 Track Curved K Line S gauge
VG / Lot of 12 $12.00 E / Orig Box of 12 $12.00 Track Curved
VG + / Lot of 12 $13.00 VG + / Lot of 12 $4.00 LN / Lot of 12 $15.00
E / Lot of 12 $14.00 VG / Lot of 12 $3.00 Track Curved -
54" radius
LN / Orig Box of 12 $20.00 LN / Lot of 12 $28.00

Mainline Parts Depot 1480 Axel Ave North Brunswick NJ 08902
SSAE for AFList
1480-S 36" Flex, New, Brass rail w/fiber ties, limited G / Lot of 1 $2.25

K412 K Line Wide Radius Used limited G / Lot of 1
$2.25
K432-U K Line 10" straight Used G / Lot of 1 $1.25
K332 K Line 10" straight New G / Lot of 1 $2.95
700 Straight, needs cleaning G / Lot of 1 $1.75
702 Curved, needs cleaning G / Lot of 1 $0.75

Philip Opielowski Box 165 W. Warren MA 01092 Limited AF
702 Track Curved
VG + / Lot of 54 $5.00

S Helper 2 Roberts Rd New Brunswick NJ 08901-1621
S Helper Service http://users.aol.com/showcsline/TSCLWP.html
S Helper Service http://users.aol.com/showcsline/TSCLWP.html
New for 1998 May not be available yet
Straight Track Curved Track
15" Box of 6 $36.95 S-19" Radius 30 degree Box of 6 $29.95
10" Box of 6 $29.95 S-19" Radius 15 degree Box of 6 $26.95
5" Box of 6 $24.95 S-24" Radius 30 degree Box of 6 $34.95
S-19" Radius Box of 6 $29.95 S-24" Radius 15 degree Box of 6 $27.95
S-19" Radius Box of 6 $29.95 S-29" Radius 30 degree Box of 6 $36.95
S-29" Radius 15 degree Box of 6 $29.95

Top Hat Hobbies 126 North 5th St. Quincy IL 62301
$2 for AF Parts List
Top Hat Hobbies http://www.great-river.com/tophat
Straight Track Curved Track Unclean
$0.65 $0.65

Toy Train Center 10 Kerr Farm Rd Simsbury CT 06070
700 Straight Track 702 Curved Track Unclean, may have light rust
$0.75 $0.25

Train City 3133 Zuck Rd Erie PA 16506
Web List / "Price Guide"
Train City http://www.traincity.com
702 Curved Track
Lot 0f 12 $10.00

Triple "S" Supplies 288 Lancaster Pike Bldg 3 Malvern PA 19355
Catalog parts + trains $9.95
700 Straight Track 702 Curved Track No Rust
VG / Lot of 12 $15.00 VG / Lot of 12 $10.00
Cleaned / Lot of 1 $2.00 Cleaned / Lot of 1 $2.00

Rex J. Venator 15263 Morningside Dr Choctaw OK 73020-7509
LSASE List
702 Curved Track
VG / Lot of 12 $2.00
VG / Lot of 1 $0.20

John F. Wright 3980 Kingston Dr Sarasota FL 34238
LSSAE for AF List
700 Straight Track (300 avail) 702 Curved Track (160 avail)
E / Lot of 1 $0.35 E / Lot of 1 $0.25

Edward Zawila 8 Webster Hills Mt Vernon IL 62864
SSAE for AFList
700 Straight Track 702 Curved Track
E+ /Box of 12 $15.00 E /Box of 12 $10.00

Hobby Surplus Sales PO Box 2170CT New Britian CT 06050-2170
$4 Catalog / Train Buyers Guide
Hobby Surplus Sales 287 Main Street New Britian CT 06050-2170
26700 Straight Track 26720 Curved Track Also has Pikemaster track
G / Lot of 1 $1.99 G / Lot of 12 $9.99 Also has Repro AF track
G / Lot of 1 $1.00 Also has Gargraves Track

American Models 10087 Colonial Industrial Dr South Lyons MI 48178
American Models http://www.amtrains.com
Universal Track - .148 brass

GarGraves Trackage Co. http://www.gargraves.com
Flexible Track
Group: S-Trains Message: 462 From: Paul Yorke Date: 11/17/1998
Subject: Modern and a call for pictures
It sure is great to see all this activity. There is now almost 300
members on this list. I'm happy!

I took Kelvin (also incorrectly know as Kevin) White's notes about the
'Modern ...Sig' and converted them into
preliminary web pages. Please visit them at
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/mpsm/MPSM_main.htm.
I take credit for any errors and omissions.

If you visit or setup any S trains this Christmas, you better send me a
picture, or I will see that Santa brings you a piece of coal, and it
won't s-scale.

--
Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl.
American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)
Group: S-Trains Message: 463 From: Ken Zieska Date: 11/17/1998
Subject: Catagories
I would also like to ask all sub groups to keep in touch with all of
us. Although I model 1969, I have stack pack cars and BN paint schemes
to show off when we have an openhouse.
Ken Z.
Group: S-Trains Message: 464 From: Alex Binkley Date: 11/17/1998
Subject: Re: MPSM - Modern Locomotives List
Hi Kelvin:
By the way I have received Dave Baily's MPSM SIG mailing list. I will
send you the letter I propose to send to them 32 people on that list who
aren't on the 'Net as far as I can tell.
As for the locomotives, I think your 20-year time line might be too
severe. We'll see what others say but with the growing popularity of
shortlines in North America, older locos will remain on the scene for
some time yet. CPR's RS18s and C424s have been snapped up by Cdn and
American shortlines to add to their collections of GP9s, 18s, 35s and
GP40s. To me the most lacking of locos are the GP-38, GP-40, SD-40 and
SD-40-2 in plastic although thetre are those who will argue for an SD45.
A Dash-7 would probably work as well.
I'm looking forward to your freight car list. Remember that freight cars
can stay on the rails for 40 years in North America. I saw lots of 64 and
65 built cars a couple of weeks ago.
cheers


--
Alex Binkley,
Hammond, Ontario, Canada
Group: S-Trains Message: 465 From: Richard Snook Date: 11/17/1998
Subject: 40 year rule
G"day all

With respect to the ICC/STB (or whomever it is today). If say a 1963 car is rebuilt in say1994, is it a 35 year old car or a 4 year old car in the eyes of the governing body ?? I agree with Alex regarding vintage, maybe 25 instead of 20 years

regards

:-)) Richard
Group: S-Trains Message: 466 From: Boss31@xxx.xxx Date: 11/17/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 47 American Flyer track
Hey RB, I have about 150 lbs. of "original" American Flyer track.and 200 lbs.
of Rubber roadbed. How much do you need??......{8>)....Steve
Group: S-Trains Message: 467 From: Jeffrey Madden Date: 11/17/1998
Subject: Re: Welcome to S-Trains@onelist.com
>From s-trains-return-nasgdispatch=hotmail.com@onelist.com Tue Nov 17
21:32:28 1998
>Received: (qmail 6606 invoked by uid 99); 18 Nov 1998 05:37:58 -0000
>Date: 18 Nov 1998 05:37:58 -0000
>Message-ID: <911367478.6463@onelist.com>
>To: nasgdispatch@...
>Subject: [S-Trains] Welcome to S-Trains@onelist.com
>From: S-Trains-owner@onelist.com
>Reply-to: S-Trains@onelist.com
>
>Hello,
>
>Welcome to the S-Trains list. Please take a moment to review this
message.
>This list is intended for folks who share an interest in S-Scale
(1/64th) and
>S-Gauge model railroading.
>
>To unsubscribe from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at
>www.onelist.com, and select the User Center link from the menu bar
>on the left. This menu will also let you change your subscription
>between digest and normal mode. If you are a non-web e-mail
>user, (ie Juno) just send me a note and I will take care of you.
>
>
>Thanks,
>Paul Yorke (yorke@...)
>http://www.gate.net/~yorke
>
>
Yeah, I think I'm a non-web e-mail (hotmail)

Jeff, Dispatch Editor
Group: S-Trains Message: 468 From: Alex Binkley Date: 11/18/1998
Subject: Canadian S site
Actually there is French and English text for the S Canada web site.
Just keep scrolling. We were fortuneate to have the site done by a
bilingual member Denis Fortier.
--
Alex Binkley,
Hammond, Ontario, Canada
Group: S-Trains Message: 469 From: Alex Binkley Date: 11/18/1998
Subject: old freight cars
Richard Snook asked about determining the age of a 60s car rebuilt in
the 90s. My understanding is that a freight car can be used after 40
years only if it undergoes a major rebuild which in most cases isn't
worth the effort. I have no idea how a rebuilt car is classified for age
purposes.
--
Alex Binkley,
Hammond, Ontario, Canada
Group: S-Trains Message: 470 From: JHAUGH12 Date: 11/18/1998
Subject: Lionel for next year
Despite my chagrin at last year's removal of the CONRAIL loc after I had
placed an order, I am still interested in what they are putting out for
1999, e.g. a Sante Fe 'B' unit maybe. Just wondering if anyone has heard
what the great Lionel will condencend to release for products as we
approach the millenium.

Joe Haughney
Group: S-Trains Message: 471 From: kelvin white Date: 11/18/1998
Subject: GG1 withdrawl dates ?
In message <3652189F.9B974B7A@...>, Paul Yorke <yorke@...>
writes
>Should I add these?
>
>--
>Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl.
>American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers
>http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)
>
>From: Bilfrazier@...
>
>I would like to add to the excellent list that Kelvin posted the following:
>
>American Models GG1
>Steam Depot GE 44 ton switcher
>Ertl EMD GP35

Hi Bill

I excluded the GG1 as my book on Conrail states that they were all
withdrawn by 1980 so only they just get into the 20 year rule cut off
date. Several GG1s went to Amtrak - how long they survived - I don't
know, can somebody advise?

I agree that the 44 tonner and GP35 should be added to the list.


--
Kelvin White
Group: S-Trains Message: 472 From: Chris Palomarez Date: 11/18/1998
Subject: Wishful Products for MPSM
At 17:08 98-11-14 -0800, you wrote:
>also Chuck Smith had a great idea for a modern product for S -- an
>EOT device. Great idea.

How about operational P64 roller bearing trucks with operational
bearings like the KATO 70 ton truck for HO, only with P64 tollerances.

Just my little submission for the kettle.
Group: S-Trains Message: 473 From: Thompson, Keith Date: 11/18/1998
Subject: Re: GG1 withdrawl dates ?
A lot of GG-1s lasted through the 1970s wearing Conrail and Amtrak paint.
The last GG-1s were retired in 1980 but I can't remember their numbers. --
Keith Thompson in Seattle

> ----------
> From: kelvin white[SMTP:kelvin@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 1998 9:54 AM
> To: Bilfrazier@...; S-Trains@onelist.com; Paul Yorke
> Cc: S-Trains@onelist.com; Bilfrazier@...
> Subject: [S-Trains] GG1 withdrawl dates ?
>
> From: kelvin white <kelvin@...>
>
> In message <3652189F.9B974B7A@...>, Paul Yorke <yorke@...>
> writes
> >Should I add these?
> >
> >--
> >Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl.
> >American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers
> >http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)
> >
> >From: Bilfrazier@...
> >
> >I would like to add to the excellent list that Kelvin posted the
> following:
> >
> >American Models GG1
> >Steam Depot GE 44 ton switcher
> >Ertl EMD GP35
>
> Hi Bill
>
> I excluded the GG1 as my book on Conrail states that they were all
> withdrawn by 1980 so only they just get into the 20 year rule cut off
> date. Several GG1s went to Amtrak - how long they survived - I don't
> know, can somebody advise?
>
> I agree that the 44 tonner and GP35 should be added to the list.
>
>
> --
> Kelvin White
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info -
> http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 474 From: Chris Palomarez Date: 11/18/1998
Subject: MPSM cutoff dates? why?
To be honest, I feel a definite cutoff date is discouraged as in 1970
there were cars still being used from the 30's. In fact in the 1990's
equipment from the 1930's was still prevellant...(Does the SP sugar beet
cars strike a bell? Stock right down to the friction bearing trucks
dated right back to the 30's). There should be a more of a theme that
should be carried over all our rolling-stock and locomotive rosters as
anything goes as long as it is executed in a modern railroading context
and scheme (research your proto-type is the best advice, I'd also like
to have proto-type-freelancing to be acceptable (good examples are the
V&O, Utah Belt, etc.) as long as the modern theme remain homogenous
throughout the model). Now your 40 foot boxcars are considered very
appropriate but they will need to be put into MOW service because that
is a typical practice for such equipment, naturally there are exceptions
to the rule. Afterall, typical refers to a common repetative event or
site, something to be expected, that should remind us of the true goal
of using the word proto-typical.

Chris Palomarez
Group: S-Trains Message: 475 From: Thompson, Keith Date: 11/18/1998
Subject: Re: Wishful Products for MPSM
Oooh! I like it! The big question however is rolling resistance -- how much
can you tolerate? On a 20 car train, the rolling resistance eighty axles of
blunt wheel bearings would be tolerable. However, on a longer modern train,
where these wheels should be the norm, you'd have to start beefing up the
power to overcome the excess friction.

Layout design and operations guru John Armstrong uses blunt axles on his O
scale layout to induce more rolling resistance. This makes locomotives
actually "load up" with a longer, supposedly more-heavy, train. The extra
load on a locomotive is especially desirable if it's equipped with a
back-EMF-sensing DCC sound decoder. The extra drawbar resistance makes the
sound unit turn up the effects to simulate a locomotive getting a virtual
hernia. -- Keith Thompson in Seattle

> ----------
> From: Chris Palomarez[SMTP:online6@...]
> Reply To: ChrisPy_Joe@...
> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 1998 10:49 AM
> To: Alex Binkley; kelvin white; Robin@...; Denis Fortier;
> Billy Wade; alevans@...; hilsmth@...;
> richard.snook@...; patndave@...; donrich@...;
> capaigle@...; cdmodels@...; jopke@...;
> cesmith@...; S-Trains@onelist.com
> Subject: [S-Trains] Wishful Products for MPSM
>
> From: Chris Palomarez <online6@...>
>
> At 17:08 98-11-14 -0800, you wrote:
> >also Chuck Smith had a great idea for a modern product for S -- an
> >EOT device. Great idea.
>
> How about operational P64 roller bearing trucks with operational
> bearings like the KATO 70 ton truck for HO, only with P64 tollerances.
>
> Just my little submission for the kettle.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info -
> http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 476 From: Chris Palomarez Date: 11/18/1998
Subject: Re: Wishful Products for MPSM
My experience with the KATO roller bearing trucks has been very
favorable, as they are actually more free wheeling then other expensive
metal wheelsets. I hope those of you don't mind me borrowing experience
from HO and applying it to S, can I use my modellers license yet? the
trick is in the machining.....is there any way to find small enough ball
bearings suitable for the roller bearing truck...any ideas?

Chris Palomarez----SP enthusiast



Keith Thompson wrote:

Oooh! I like it! The big question however is rolling resistance -- how
much
can you tolerate? On a 20 car train, the rolling resistance eighty axles
of
blunt wheel bearings would be tolerable. However, on a longer modern
train,
where these wheels should be the norm, you'd have to start beefing up
the
power to overcome the excess friction.

Layout design and operations guru John Armstrong uses blunt axles on his
O
scale layout to induce more rolling resistance. This makes locomotives
actually "load up" with a longer, supposedly more-heavy, train. The
extra
load on a locomotive is especially desirable if it's equipped with a
back-EMF-sensing DCC sound decoder. The extra drawbar resistance makes
the
sound unit turn up the effects to simulate a locomotive getting a
virtual
hernia. -- Keith Thompson in Seattle
Group: S-Trains Message: 477 From: Chris Palomarez Date: 11/18/1998
Subject: MPSM scale trucks
Yes, i'm referring to the spinning "cap" at the end of the blunt axle.
Ball bearings would make a blunt axle more free rolling when it comes to
the side frame to axle resistance. KATO has taken an interesting
approach to their 70 ton roller bearing trucks for HO...I see no reason
why we can't do the same thing in S (Yes, the roller bearing caps spin
on the KATO model and they remain free rolling enough to roll around a 8
foot loop with a gradual descent in speed). My major hesitation for
jumping right into S, is lack of suitable trucks for modern rolling
stock. I don't mind having to rework existing trucks into more scale
representations, I just am hesitant about having to do it to each
individual car. yuck

Chris Palomarez
Group: S-Trains Message: 478 From: Paul Yorke Date: 11/18/1998
Subject: Hold that thought!
S-Trains list will be down for scheduled maintenance on Wednesday,
November 18 from 6pm to Midnight Pacific
Time.

You may want to delay posting that message for till after the upgrade.
We don't want your message to get lost in the ozone.

--
Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl.
American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)
Group: S-Trains Message: 479 From: Alex Binkley Date: 11/18/1998
Subject: Re: Wishful Products for MPSM
Hi Chris:
I presume you mean by operational that you can see the ends of axles
turning as the car moves? sounds like a great idea and it would be nice
on 100 ton trucks as well. do you know if it is doable?
cheers
--
Alex Binkley,
Hammond, Ontario, Canada
Group: S-Trains Message: 480 From: Richard Snook Date: 11/18/1998
Subject: re roller bearing truck
fellow "S"cribes

The name is on the tip of my tongue!! what outfit was it that did this very concept in HO ??(not proto) but had the end caps revolving, that would look something!!

ttfn :-)) Richard
Group: S-Trains Message: 481 From: Paul Yorke Date: 11/18/1998
Subject: Proposed Survey Questions
I often get requests for information on some special interest.
Tonight I got the idea to create a web page that showed the special
interests
of members of this list that were interested in connecting with others
that shared
that interest. In other words if I wanted to know about pre-war A/F
trains, I could go to this list and search
on people that indicated an interest in this segment. If I wanted to
know more about narow gauge, or 'all aboard panels, or Erector, or well
you know what I mean. To build such a page I would need to collect some
data.

Right now I am not in the data collecting mode, I am looking for help in
designing a survey that will capture your specific interests. If the
survey soes not ask the question that will identify you as some one who
is interested in 'whatever it is that you feel could benifit others'
then please speak up.

My first attempt as a survey is at
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/info/survey.htm. Please remember it is
not a functioning survey, just some proposed questions. You can send
your input directly to me. Thanks.

--
Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl.
American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)
Group: S-Trains Message: 482 From: Alex Binkley Date: 11/18/1998
Subject: Re: MPSM scale trucks
Hi Chris:
as the main suppliers of RB trucks in S are S Helper, Desplaines (which
is working on 100 ton trucks) and American Models, could you on behalf of
our group e-mail those three firms about the possibility of doing just
what you suggest. I will have to look out for those Kato hoppers.
I think is a great example of what our group could do to make S scale
even better. It's like Chuck Smith's suggestion of an EOT or the bulkhead
cars Denis Fortier has suggested.
keep us informed, OK?

--
Alex Binkley,
Hammond, Ontario, Canada
Group: S-Trains Message: 483 From: Robin Thompson Date: 11/18/1998
Subject: Re: MPSM scale trucks
Dear Guys,
I have a production sample of an Ace truck that was converted by Frank
Titman to spinning roller bearing caps over 25 years ago. I have always
loved that truck (just one, not even enough for a car). I am sure that
the Kato engineers could figure out how to have them roll with the
minimum amount of resisitance.
For us it would be a costly modification. We would have to modify the
existing sideframe tooling, make a new bearing tool (yes, all of our
freight trucks have delrin bearings that the pointed axles rotates) as
we use this tool for other trucks, and make a tool for the bearing
caps. The truth is, that our friction bearing trucks outsell the
roller bearing trucks about 2:1.
I am not sure if my partner Mike would allow me to apend the needed
funds to convert our tooling for these trucks (That I also want).
Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
Group: S-Trains Message: 484 From: PortLines@xxx.xxx Date: 11/18/1998
Subject: Re: Track
For those who aren't aware, Gargraves does not have any S turnouts available,
and will not until February. They are now being "redesigned".......that COULD
be good news, as the current ones aren' the most satisfactory!
Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)
Port Lines Hobby Supply
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Port Lines @ aol.com http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 485 From: Rhett T. George Date: 11/19/1998
Subject: SW-9 wheels
- Greetings -

About two weeks ago I asked about wheel pitting on the SW-9 from S H S.
Here is the update on that situation.

The loco is running excellently now. The pitting pretty much ate
the plating in the center portion of the treads. Close examination
of the treads shows brass showing thru in the middle portion with
the silvery plating much in evidence at the outside edge and in
the corner. The brass is staying very clean with ordinary running.
I carried it over to the train show in Raleigh, NC, last Saturday.
Folks there were interested in what had happened to the tread
surface. There was little surprise that the plating was gone.

Don Thompson responded with a gracious offer of assistance in
correcting the problem. Happily the problem took care of itself.

Detail and paint on this locomotive has my highest approval and
has drawn many favorable comments from all who have seen it.

Must get back to some switching duties now.

Cheer'S Rhett George
Group: S-Trains Message: 486 From: Mark Preman Date: 11/19/1998
Subject: Fwd: S Gaugian Back Issues
Passing on some info for a good customer......

---"J. Paul Hartman" <hartman@...>
wrote:
>
> Mark - would you kindly forward this to your
AmerFlyer/S Gauge friends? I need to find homes for
some back issues of S GAUGIAN. Back issues generally
$2 each or $3 for $5 etc. I have about 30 back
issues from the 1980s and 13 from the 1990s. I have
complete years for 1996 and 1997 - each 6 issues -
> $10/year. I am looking for a few issues in 1993
and 1994 in case any
> folks want to make trades. Also will trade for
interesting Marx (O or
> HO) or Flyer HO items. Thanks Mark.
Paul Hartman
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 487 From: RxMan46321@xxx.xxx Date: 11/19/1998
Subject: DCC decoders
Which decoders are best to use on Flyer engines? I was told Digitrack decoders
have the DC rectifier built in. Is this true.

John Griffin
Group: S-Trains Message: 488 From: John Foley Date: 11/19/1998
Subject: NASG Memberships
Hi Folks
Our NASG Treasurer Bill Moore ask me to relay a message on the
S-trains
list. If anyone is having a problem with thier NASG membership please let Bill
know by sending him a note at Bill Moore
220 Swedesboro Rd;
Gibbstown, NJ 08027-1504
Phone 609-423-0198
Or you can E-mail me at foley164@... and I will forward this to Bill.

Your Friend
John Foley
Group: S-Trains Message: 489 From: alice beachy Date: 11/19/1998
Subject: Mike Wolf Talk
A couple of days ago someone mentioned the rumor at York that MTH was
negotiating to buy American Flyer from Lionel. Joe Haenn replied that I
was going to attend a talk that Mike Wolf was giving tonight at a
meeting of the Virginia Train Collectors (VTC) and I and others in the
club had submitted S related questions for Mike to answer. He did and
here's the scoop.

First, let me say Mike Wolf is a fascinating person and and wonderfully
direct speaker. He would never make it in politics, but I can see why
at the age of 38 he has done so well in business. He has matched Lionel
in train sales and passed them in other areas such as the number of new
tooling done for engines.

MTH surveys show that over the past few years the average age of train
collectors has remained constant at about 52. His conclusion is that
train collecting will not deminish because of the graying of the market.

He has a commitment to quality products evidenced by an action he took
just today. They were testing a shipment of streamline cars just
received and the coupler operation was not acceptable so they are
packing the cars back into the container and shipping them back accross
the water. If MTH had been making S gauge freight cars last year in my
opinion we would not have received a brown Sante Fe boxcar with black
letters. He personally has a commitment to worthy causes and allots a
percentage of set sales to children's causes.

Another overview item that I have always wondered about was numbers of
product made in a typical run. Bob Tufts and others have data which
give us ideas on numbers of product in a Gilbert run and many of us have
speculated on Lionel. Mike said their run numbers vary depending on the
product but 2,000 to 3,000 is a good average for modern plastic products
and 300 to 700 for tinplate products.

One of the presubmitted questions asked what do his surveys show the
market is for S and does he plan to enter the S market. He stated that
his surveys have not included S but he does have gut feelings which he
did not elaborate on. He intends to enter the S market when technology
allows small enough sound units for high quality sound in S engines.
(More on that later).

Another question addressed the American Flyer rumor directly. Is he, or
would he consider buying American Flyer from Lionel. After the meeting
I asked him to clarify to make sure I understood his answer so I hope I
get it right. He would consider buying Lionel when it is offered for a
reasonable price, which, of course, would include American Flyer.

After the session on presubmitted questions, I was able to ask a
spontaneous question. He had been asked earlier why set prices were so
cheap compared to individual rolling stock prices. His reply was
selling sets is a good promotional tool to get people into the hobby.
Based on that answer, I commented that in S neither the new, high
quality manufacturers, nor the older collectable manufacturer seemed to
be putting a lot of emphasis on starter sets. Based on his previous
comment he obviously recognized the importance of starter sets to
growing the hobby. When and if he got into S, would he produce starter
sets? His answer was yes. Again, as soon as technology permits a sound
system the same quality as he has in his O gauge product to fit S gauge
engines, he will produce S gauge. When he does, he does not intend to
dabble in S, but to produce a full line of S, including starter sets.
He feels S is a great size, especially for young railroaders.

Well, there you go. We know that S has a great future. Now we know
that there are other great manufactures besides S Helper Service and
American Models that know S has a great potential too. We just need
patience and to support those manufacturers that support us.

Wayne Beachy
Atlantic Coast S Gaugers
Group: S-Trains Message: 490 From: Bilfrazier@xxx.xxx Date: 11/19/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 49
I have not been able to find the exact date that Amtrak last ran a GG1, but I
did find that the last revenue run for a GG1 was a NJ Transit commuter train
on 10-28-83.
I remember riding the Crescent with a GG1 I THINK in late 1980, but I could
well be wrong about the date.

Bill Frazier

In a message dated 98-11-19 07:11:00 EST, S-Trains@onelist.com writes:

<< Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 11:07:33 -0800
From: "Thompson, Keith" <keith.thompson@...>
Subject: Re: GG1 withdrawl dates ?

A lot of GG-1s lasted through the 1970s wearing Conrail and Amtrak paint.
The last GG-1s were retired in 1980 but I can't remember their numbers. --
Keith Thompson in Seattle

> ----------
> From: kelvin white[SMTP:kelvin@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 1998 9:54 AM
> To: Bilfrazier@...; S-Trains@onelist.com; Paul Yorke
> Cc: S-Trains@onelist.com; Bilfrazier@...
> Subject: [S-Trains] GG1 withdrawl dates ?
>
> From: kelvin white <kelvin@...>
>
> In message <3652189F.9B974B7A@...>, Paul Yorke <yorke@...>
> writes
> >Should I add these?
> >
> >--
> >Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl.
> >American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers
> >http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)
> >
> >From: Bilfrazier@...
> >
> >I would like to add to the excellent list that Kelvin posted the
> following:
> >
> >American Models GG1
> >Steam Depot GE 44 ton switcher
> >Ertl EMD GP35
>
> Hi Bill
>
> I excluded the GG1 as my book on Conrail states that they were all
> withdrawn by 1980 so only they just get into the 20 year rule cut off
> date. Several GG1s went to Amtrak - how long they survived - I don't
> know, can somebody advise?
>
> I agree that the 44 tonner and GP35 should be added to the list.
>
>
> --
> Kelvin White >>
Group: S-Trains Message: 491 From: Ken Zieska Date: 11/19/1998
Subject: Thursday night report
The PPSSW gang just left and the report is that 30 more feet of mainline
has been torn up. Dave Jasper was a little preoccupied but when he saw
the mess being created, he expressed his concern that everything would
be fixed up in time for the convention. Dave is the layout tour
chairman for the NASG and the NMRA so he is worried. The changes that
are being made will make the layout much better, create better scenic
views and better operation so they will be worth the risk. I guess it
means that the string of reefers I had hoped to build before the
convention are on hold and so are a few new paint jobs that I intended
to start. What the heck, it is only a hobby, maybe I should take out
all the rail and go to code 80 Proto 64..... Just kidding Dave! Don't
hit!
Well put that on your convention list, see if the MHRy is operating or
if Ken has lumps pounded into his head.
Ken
Group: S-Trains Message: 492 From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx Date: 11/20/1998
Subject: Finescale Modeling
There has been discussion about how best to keep everybody
who is interested in Finescale S informed of what's
happening, especially those not on line.

The Sn2 folks have an elegant solution to this question.
Look at page 23 of the October Dispatch!

Ted Larson mhrreast@...
Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/corp/features/space/today08Pictures.shtml

________________________________________________________________
Get secure free e-mail that you don't need Web access to use
from Juno, the world's second largest online service.
Download your free software at http://www.juno.com/getit.b.html.
Group: S-Trains Message: 493 From: Alex Binkley Date: 11/20/1998
Subject: MPSG update
By my count, so far we have the following in the modern prototype S
group. Hopefully the e-mail address are correct.
Allan Evans
Richard Snook
Kelvin White
Paul Yorke (friend of the list)
Dave Bailey (the founder)
Chris Palomarez
Denis Fortier
CD Models
Walter Jopke
Chuck Smith
John Tomlins
Don Richards
Keith Thompson (Mr. P64)
Art Armstrong
Alex Binkley
Bill Wade
--
Alex Binkley,
Hammond, Ontario, Canada
Group: S-Trains Message: 494 From: Alex Binkley Date: 11/20/1998
Subject: another MPSG update
Well, I had three e-mail address wrong and part of John's name. So I try
again.
> Allan Evans
> Richard Snook
> Kelvin White
> Paul Yorke (friend of the list)
> Dave Bailey (the founder)
> Chris Palomarez
> Denis Fortier
> Greg at CD Models
> Walter Jopke
> Chuck Smith
> John Tomlinson
> Don Richards
> Keith Thompson (Mr. P64)
> Art Armstrong
> Alex Binkley
> Bill Wade


--
Alex Binkley,
Hammond, Ontario, Canada
Group: S-Trains Message: 495 From: Chris Palomarez Date: 11/20/1998
Subject: MPSM Scale Roller Bearing Trucks
Finding sympathetic manufacturers is probably the most difficult process
to get ideas for products in the actual production stage. On behalf of
the MPSM (does this mean I'm a member yet = ). I'll need to research
the demand with in the organization itself as well as the independent
modelers. I'll also need to research the design of the truck so scratch
building and material consideration will need to be considered.
Basically I'll need to put forth the research and a demonstration model
of the applied research to demonstrate the reliability of the design.
Formal approach to manufacturers will be sought after substantial
research and development have been accomplished. I would appreciate any
support and further wishes to be submitted by those interested in this
product......any leads to interested manufacturers will also be greatly
appreciated. I will post the progress of my research as I go.

Chris Palomarez
Santa Barbara, Ca.

-------------------
Alex Binkly wrote:
Hi Chris:
as the main suppliers of RB trucks in S are S Helper, Desplaines (which

is working on 100 ton trucks) and American Models, could you on behalf
of
our group e-mail those three firms about the possibility of doing just
what you suggest. I will have to look out for those Kato hoppers.
I think is a great example of what our group could do to make S scale
even better. It's like Chuck Smith's suggestion of an EOT or the
bulkhead
cars Denis Fortier has suggested.
keep us informed, OK?

--
Alex Binkley,
Hammond, Ontario, Canada

-------------------
Don Thompson also wrote:
Dear Guys,
I have a production sample of an Ace truck that was converted by
Frank
Titman to spinning roller bearing caps over 25 years ago. I have always

loved that truck (just one, not even enough for a car). I am sure that
the Kato engineers could figure out how to have them roll with the
minimum amount of resisitance.
For us it would be a costly modification. We would have to
modify the
existing sideframe tooling, make a new bearing tool (yes, all of our
freight trucks have delrin bearings that the pointed axles rotates) as
we use this tool for other trucks, and make a tool for the bearing
caps. The truth is, that our friction bearing trucks outsell the
roller bearing trucks about 2:1.
I am not sure if my partner Mike would allow me to apend the
needed
funds to convert our tooling for these trucks (That I also want).
Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
Group: S-Trains Message: 496 From: Paul Yorke Date: 11/20/1998
Subject: Re: MPSG update
I would be willing to put your names and e-mail on a MPSG web page.

If your would NOT like your name and/or e-mail on a MPSG page let me
know.
I don't know, but some folks might not want their e-mail address 'out
there', others might not want their name 'out there'.
If I don't here I will assume that it is OK with you do display your
name and e-mail , as a member of the MPSG.
I will wait a week. I can always remove it later, if you change your
mind.

--
Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl.
American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)
Group: S-Trains Message: 497 From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx Date: 11/20/1998
Subject: Rail Joiners
Does anybody know a source for Insulated Rail Joiners
usable with code 148 rail? These would make our
module building SO MUCH easier.

Ted Larson mhrreast@...
Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/corp/features/space/today08Pictures.shtml

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Group: S-Trains Message: 498 From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx Date: 11/20/1998
Subject: Car Accident
I have just received word that Bob Eves of Syracuse,
long time S modeler, was in a severe auto accident
Nov. 10. His wife Gail says that your prayers will
be appreciated. He has come a long way, and has
a long way to go until he is back on his feet.

Ted Larson mhrreast@...
Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/corp/features/space/today08Pictures.shtml

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Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
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Group: S-Trains Message: 499 From: Nick and Becky Colleran Date: 11/20/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 50
Does anyone on the list have a source for the insulating material in the
earlier Gilber metal cased transformers such as the 4B and 8B? It appears to
be a fiberboard about the stiffness of a playing card.

Nick Colleran <colleran@...>
Group: S-Trains Message: 500 From: seg@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) Date: 11/20/1998
Subject: AF up for sale?
Commenting on Wayne Beachy's notes on MTH and S-ga, as well as the
question of what Lionel might offer in 1999 AF, I have a few
observations. The question may not be what new AF Lionel plans to issue
next year, but rather if they'll issue any at all. There was an
interesting letter in the AFCC Fall 1998 issue of the Collector (p. 38)
which indicates that now Lionel might be serious, indeed, about selling
the AF business and getting out of S-gauge for good. This might make
sense, since their products are inferior to SHS and American Models but
are not cheaper. After making an effort to bring back the Gilbert name
on the old-style blue & yellow boxes, they neutralized this gain by
foolishly stamping "Made by Lionel" on the sides of 1998 AF products.
And we all know the SD40 blunder. Also the current aftermarket for AF
by Lionel is horrid. Ebay auctions never seem to bring a good price for
AF by Lionel, dealers in the Chicago area don't want to stock new AF,
and existing stock is being unloaded at deep discounts. Did anyone
notice that Charles Ro is now selling the 1998 Milwaukee Road and
Southern AF geeps for $140 each ($250 reg price)? In my opinion, Lionel
has squandered the goodwill of AF collectors/operators, and AF has
become a money-loosing venture. At least 85% of my new S-gauge dollars
are going to SHS and American Models. Based on Wolf's comments to Wayne
Beachy, it seems clearer to me that as we approach the 20th anniversary
of the post-Gilbert AF reintroduction, AF is about to enter a new (and
better) age of development (and prosperity).

Steve Gruninger
Group: S-Trains Message: 501 From: Robin Thompson Date: 11/21/1998
Subject: Re: Rail Joiners
Dear Ted,
We had both yellow and weathered (brown) insulated rail joiners made
for our new track system. But, the base of our rail is 0.020" narrower
than the code 148 rail. I beleive if the base is filed a little, our
insulated rail joiners could be made to fit.
Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 502 From: PatnDave Date: 11/21/1998
Subject: Scale Roller Bearing Trucks
I too have the desire to some day see true roller bearing trucks with
actual rotating bearing caps. I've been contemplating a method to
accomplish this for a long time but have never actually experimented with
it. The furthest my design has come so far was rough sketches on paper.
Without drawings, It may be difficult to describe and understand here but I
thought I'd toss it out to Chris and the S-list for discussion and feed
back. Short of locating small enough actual ball or roller bearings , if
they even exist at any cost, I think this approach might be a do-able idea
with some further refining and the right combination of materials, or it
may at least be another approach to what you might be considering.
In the past, my first and foremost consideration has been that all my
trucks be as free rolling as possible on the premise that the easier they
roll the more cars can be pulled. The introduction of the needle or
"pointed axle" and "cone bearing" to model railroading and later to S scale
a number of years ago eliminated those concerns, almost to the point...
could the roll-ability be too good? Some will say not, while others will
agree. Myself, I still contend the more free rolling the better but I feel
I've come to realize the fact that the pointed axle design has brought to
model railroading the ultimate in roll-ability and may not ever be equaled
in that category.
So, with that in mind I based my design on the "pointed axle , cone
bearing" theory, but instead of the axle being pointed I place the "point"
in the truck side frame bearing.
The Side Frame: Picture a cut-a-way or cross sectional view of a cone
bearing truck side frame cut through the center point of the cone bearing.
You would see about a 60 degree included angle or horizontal "V" of the
bearing to the back side of the frame. Now add a second opposing horizontal
"V" to the face side of the frame to form a vertical "V" so its point is
centered to the thickness of the frame . Now, a full front face view with
the new bearing type thus far, picture the horizontal center line across
the bearing journal/axle centers. Cut almost half of the lower bearing
journal away leaving slightly more than half or about a 185 degree arc of
the upper bearing journal half. This would look much like the prototype
side frame and would allow the axle to be snap fitted into place.
The Axle: The axle ends are now straight but the bearing contact area is
reduced in diameter to an appropriate size determined by the inside
diameter of the bearing in the side frame. The area were the axle is
reduced in size and meets with the full axle size is not a square shoulder
but a taper of a value slightly less than the angle of the bearing.
The Bearing Cap: The cap is made with the same angle on the back as the
axle shaft has with a blind hole in the center to provide a press fit onto
the axle end. When the axle and cap are assembled, a "V" is formed but is
slightly wider angularity than the side frame "V" bearing to provide
clearance and minimal surface contact between the axle and bearing. Also,
the "V" that is formed has no actual bottom "v-point" as does the side
frame bearing but in stead has a flat land of perhaps .005 or .010 of an
inch. Axles are snapped into the side frame (before or after?) the bearing
caps are installed.
Picture then, the sharp "V" pointed side frame bearing made of a self
lubricating (slippery) type of plastic running on the smooth flat metal
axle surface yet restricted and confined laterally by the "V" shape of the
axle ends.
So that's it. I realize several things about this design my not coincide
with the usual methods of model railroad truck manufacturing and that
this would also mean closer attention to much closer tolerances which may
even make it cost prohibitive. What do you think?

Dave
Group: S-Trains Message: 503 From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx Date: 11/21/1998
Subject: Photos
Paul Yorke has asked for photos of modules.
I have made several attempts to get good photos
of modules in use, and I've not been happy with the
results. If the photo is taken at any kind of angle, the
module is at a diagonal in the photo, and there is
lots of dead space in the opposite corners. If the
photo is taken staight on, the close module is
brightly lit, and the background is very dark.

Any suggestions for taking good photos?

Ted Larson mhrreast@...
Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/corp/features/space/today08Pictures.shtml

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Group: S-Trains Message: 504 From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx Date: 11/21/1998
Subject: Re: AF up for sale?
In a message dated 11/21/98 12:59:39 AM, seg@... wrote:

<<Based on Wolf's comments to Wayne
Beachy, it seems clearer to me that as we approach the 20th anniversary
of the post-Gilbert AF reintroduction, AF is about to enter a new (and
better) age of development (and prosperity).>>

I sincerely hope that both Wayne's and Steve's collective optimism is well-
placed, but I am afraid that I read Mike Wolf's comments with a darker side.
Although Mike is quoted as saying a number of "nice things" about S gauge,
please note that he has not seriously committed to anything. The capital
being consumed in the O gauge wars between Lionel and MTH will most likely
preclude either one doing anything substantial in S. Because of the need for
money, this also probably means that, as before with Richard Kughn, Lionel
L.L.C. will ask too much for the AF name and dies.

Mike has allowed himself an almost perpetual "out" by saying that he will not
get in S as long as the electronic sound and CC systems are not as good as
those in O. Because of the relative size of the equipment, it will usually be
cheaper to accomplish the latest advancement in O gauge equipment (e.g., for
simple starters, the speaker size will always be bigger and sound better in
O.). One way out for S is to put much of what is required in the way of
electronics systems into dedicated box cars and passenger cars rather than in
the engines. This route has been available for some time, but no one has made
the commitment in capital to do so. I, as the rest of you, pray that Lionel
will eventually sell off the Gilbert name and dies to a competent firm at some
price that permits the buyer to prosper. But until then, SHS and AM are the
principal high quality games in town for new equipment to be purchased by and
for adults (The stuff is too fragile to give to a seven year old.).

As for me, I will continue to spend the majority my train dollars on original
Gilbert 3/16" scale postwar and prewar equipment (with a sprinkling of SHS and
AM thrown in) because that is what I like and enjoy. I believe that we in S
should recogonize that S is a size, scale, operating practice, and history
that has appeal for the more decriminating enthusiast than it does for the
mainstream customer (HO and O). It has been from the beginning and, thus,
will probably continue.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 505 From: kelvin white Date: 11/21/1998
Subject: MPSG email list
In message <36560037.79784E2D@...>, Paul Yorke <yorke@...>
writes
>I would be willing to put your names and e-mail on a MPSG web page.
>
>If your would NOT like your name and/or e-mail on a MPSG page let me
>know.
>I don't know, but some folks might not want their e-mail address 'out
>there', others might not want their name 'out there'.
>If I don't here I will assume that it is OK with you do display your
>name and e-mail , as a member of the MPSG.
>I will wait a week. I can always remove it later, if you change your
>mind.

Paul

Its OK by me to list my Email address.
--
Kelvin White
Oxford England
Group: S-Trains Message: 506 From: Robin Thompson Date: 11/21/1998
Subject: Re: AF up for sale?
Dear Steve,
Regrettably, Lionel abandoned the AF collector the day they started to
remake the exact same paint schemes as Gilbert produced. e.g. The
market pressure for a NP "Northcoast Limited" set was diminished when
they brought out the identical set a few years back. As they continued
to offer more of these reproduced sets, the value of the original flyer
did not increase and in many instances started to fall. Instead of
concentrating on producing items from new tooling, they squeezed what
they could out of the market with the old tooling. In essence, they
gave away market share to any company that could produce truly new
products that could be operated on AF track. I always felt that the
Heavyweight passenger cars brought out by ourselves and American Models
was the beginning of the end of Lionels dominance in the RTR AF market.
And the AM pacific steam engine introduced last year had to be another
blow to Lionels leadership position in the S gauge market.
As we all know, S is not the flagship gauge to Lionel, but is just a
very small percentage of their overall gross. But their bread and
butter commodity, the 0-27 line, is being assaulted on all sides. I am
sure that they are now trying to refocus their efforts on O gauge in
hopes to shore up what market share they have left. Ask you hobby shop
friends about what MTH is doing to Lionels market share in the Chicago
area, not to mention the new "O" products from United and Atlas. As
well as the long time competitors of K-line, Williams, Weaver and 3rd
Rail. With all of the over saturation of "O" gauge products and Lionel
losing much of their market share, it is no wonder that their interest
in the AF line is not at the high level all of us would like to see.
I do not believe that Wellspring LLC is interested in parting with the
American Flyer line. Lionel is worth more on the market with AF than
without. They know that anyone who could afford to purchase AF would
also have the resources to get it back on to the market and ultimately
competing with the 027 entry level set market.
Don Thompson


Steve Gruninger wrote:
>
> From: seg@... (Steve Gruninger)
>
> Commenting on Wayne Beachy's notes on MTH and S-ga, as well as the
> question of what Lionel might offer in 1999 AF, I have a few
> observations. The question may not be what new AF Lionel plans to issue
> next year, but rather if they'll issue any at all. There was an
> interesting letter in the AFCC Fall 1998 issue of the Collector (p. 38)
> which indicates that now Lionel might be serious, indeed, about selling
> the AF business and getting out of S-gauge for good. This might make
> sense, since their products are inferior to SHS and American Models but
> are not cheaper. After making an effort to bring back the Gilbert name
> on the old-style blue & yellow boxes, they neutralized this gain by
> foolishly stamping "Made by Lionel" on the sides of 1998 AF products.
> And we all know the SD40 blunder. Also the current aftermarket for AF
> by Lionel is horrid. Ebay auctions never seem to bring a good price for
> AF by Lionel, dealers in the Chicago area don't want to stock new AF,
> and existing stock is being unloaded at deep discounts. Did anyone
> notice that Charles Ro is now selling the 1998 Milwaukee Road and
> Southern AF geeps for $140 each ($250 reg price)? In my opinion, Lionel
> has squandered the goodwill of AF collectors/operators, and AF has
> become a money-loosing venture. At least 85% of my new S-gauge dollars
> are going to SHS and American Models. Based on Wolf's comments to Wayne
> Beachy, it seems clearer to me that as we approach the 20th anniversary
> of the post-Gilbert AF reintroduction, AF is about to enter a new (and
> better) age of development (and prosperity).
>
> Steve Gruninger
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
> service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
> http://www.onelist.com/advert.html for more information.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info - http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm
Group: S-Trains Message: 507 From: Roger Hinds Date: 11/21/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 50
Nick and Becky Colleran wrote:

Does anyone on the list have a source for the insulating material in the
> earlier Gilber metal cased transformers such as the 4B and 8B? It appears to
> be a fiberboard about the stiffness of a playing card.

Use varnished cardboard. Or cover cardboard with fiberglass resin.

Roger
Group: S-Trains Message: 508 From: alice beachy Date: 11/22/1998
Subject: MTH, AF, and S
I have read the comments about my report on Mike Wolf's talk. You guys
really have powers of observation and insight. I had not thought about
the impact of O gauge competion on the shifting of resources at Lionel.
Also Don's observation about the value of Lionel with and without the AF
assets seems to fit well with Mike's comments about buying AF alone.

I agree with most everything that was said, except the limitations of
sound quality inherent with the smaller size of S. I was working with
my Dad at a building supply company in the late 60s and I can remember
his buying his first hand calculator for almost $300 and never realizing
less than 30 years later we could buy a better product off the
supermarket aisle for less than $5. And I can remember buying my first
home computer about 10 years ago that had 40 mb of memory on hard drive.
Today the same size box holds how many thousand times of that? We have
no idea what technology will be ten, five, or even one year from now.

Very little of what I learned in undergraduate school can I quote. One
therom I learned in a fire engineering class was "The only thing for
sure is that nothing is for sure." That was my source of optimism and I
wanted to share with everyone.

Wayne Beachy
Atlantic Coast S Gaugers
Group: S-Trains Message: 509 From: Wesley, Jack Date: 11/22/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 51
Please unsubscribe me, the User Center link does not respond!


Thanks,

JLW


-----Original Message-----
From: S-Trains@onelist.com [mailto:S-Trains@onelist.com]
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 1998 4:59 AM
To: S-Trains@onelist.com
Subject: [S-Trains] Digest Number 51



To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info -
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm


There are 16 messages in this issue.

Topics in today's digest:

1. Finescale Modeling
From: mhrreast@...
2. MPSG update
From: Alex Binkley <alex.binkley@...>
3. another MPSG update
From: Alex Binkley <alex.binkley@...>
4. MPSM Scale Roller Bearing Trucks
From: Chris Palomarez <online6@...>
5. Re: MPSG update
From: Paul Yorke <yorke@...>
6. Rail Joiners
From: mhrreast@...
7. Car Accident
From: mhrreast@...
8. Re: Digest Number 50
From: Nick and Becky Colleran <colleran@...>
9. AF up for sale?
From: seg@... (Steve Gruninger)
10. Re: Rail Joiners
From: Robin Thompson <robin@...>
11. Scale Roller Bearing Trucks
From: "PatnDave" <patndave@...>
12. Photos
From: mhrreast@...
13. Re: AF up for sale?
From: RBubeck327@...
14. MPSG email list
From: kelvin white <kelvin@...>
15. Re: AF up for sale?
From: Robin Thompson <robin@...>
16. Re: Digest Number 50
From: Roger Hinds <cofa@...>


____________________________________________________________________________
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Message: 1
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 07:10:58 EST
From: mhrreast@...
Subject: Finescale Modeling


There has been discussion about how best to keep everybody
who is interested in Finescale S informed of what's
happening, especially those not on line.

The Sn2 folks have an elegant solution to this question.
Look at page 23 of the October Dispatch!

Ted Larson mhrreast@...
Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/corp/features/space/today08Pictures.shtml

________________________________________________________________
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____________________________________________________________________________
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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 08:12:39 -0800
From: Alex Binkley <alex.binkley@...>
Subject: MPSG update

By my count, so far we have the following in the modern prototype S
group. Hopefully the e-mail address are correct.
Allan Evans
Richard Snook
Kelvin White
Paul Yorke (friend of the list)
Dave Bailey (the founder)
Chris Palomarez
Denis Fortier
CD Models
Walter Jopke
Chuck Smith
John Tomlins
Don Richards
Keith Thompson (Mr. P64)
Art Armstrong
Alex Binkley
Bill Wade
--
Alex Binkley,
Hammond, Ontario, Canada



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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 08:45:16 -0800
From: Alex Binkley <alex.binkley@...>
Subject: another MPSG update

Well, I had three e-mail address wrong and part of John's name. So I try
again.
> Allan Evans
> Richard Snook
> Kelvin White
> Paul Yorke (friend of the list)
> Dave Bailey (the founder)
> Chris Palomarez
> Denis Fortier
> Greg at CD Models
> Walter Jopke
> Chuck Smith
> John Tomlinson
> Don Richards
> Keith Thompson (Mr. P64)
> Art Armstrong
> Alex Binkley
> Bill Wade


--
Alex Binkley,
Hammond, Ontario, Canada



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Message: 4
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 10:27:47 -0800
From: Chris Palomarez <online6@...>
Subject: MPSM Scale Roller Bearing Trucks

Finding sympathetic manufacturers is probably the most difficult process
to get ideas for products in the actual production stage. On behalf of
the MPSM (does this mean I'm a member yet = ). I'll need to research
the demand with in the organization itself as well as the independent
modelers. I'll also need to research the design of the truck so scratch
building and material consideration will need to be considered.
Basically I'll need to put forth the research and a demonstration model
of the applied research to demonstrate the reliability of the design.
Formal approach to manufacturers will be sought after substantial
research and development have been accomplished. I would appreciate any
support and further wishes to be submitted by those interested in this
product......any leads to interested manufacturers will also be greatly
appreciated. I will post the progress of my research as I go.

Chris Palomarez
Santa Barbara, Ca.

-------------------
Alex Binkly wrote:
Hi Chris:
as the main suppliers of RB trucks in S are S Helper, Desplaines (which

is working on 100 ton trucks) and American Models, could you on behalf
of
our group e-mail those three firms about the possibility of doing just
what you suggest. I will have to look out for those Kato hoppers.
I think is a great example of what our group could do to make S scale
even better. It's like Chuck Smith's suggestion of an EOT or the
bulkhead
cars Denis Fortier has suggested.
keep us informed, OK?

--
Alex Binkley,
Hammond, Ontario, Canada

-------------------
Don Thompson also wrote:
Dear Guys,
I have a production sample of an Ace truck that was converted by
Frank
Titman to spinning roller bearing caps over 25 years ago. I have always

loved that truck (just one, not even enough for a car). I am sure that
the Kato engineers could figure out how to have them roll with the
minimum amount of resisitance.
For us it would be a costly modification. We would have to
modify the
existing sideframe tooling, make a new bearing tool (yes, all of our
freight trucks have delrin bearings that the pointed axles rotates) as
we use this tool for other trucks, and make a tool for the bearing
caps. The truth is, that our friction bearing trucks outsell the
roller bearing trucks about 2:1.
I am not sure if my partner Mike would allow me to apend the
needed
funds to convert our tooling for these trucks (That I also want).
Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.



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Message: 5
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 18:50:15 -0500
From: Paul Yorke <yorke@...>
Subject: Re: MPSG update

I would be willing to put your names and e-mail on a MPSG web page.

If your would NOT like your name and/or e-mail on a MPSG page let me
know.
I don't know, but some folks might not want their e-mail address 'out
there', others might not want their name 'out there'.
If I don't here I will assume that it is OK with you do display your
name and e-mail , as a member of the MPSG.
I will wait a week. I can always remove it later, if you change your
mind.

--
Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl.
American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)




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Message: 6
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 19:29:01 EST
From: mhrreast@...
Subject: Rail Joiners


Does anybody know a source for Insulated Rail Joiners
usable with code 148 rail? These would make our
module building SO MUCH easier.

Ted Larson mhrreast@...
Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/corp/features/space/today08Pictures.shtml

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Message: 7
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 21:46:05 EST
From: mhrreast@...
Subject: Car Accident


I have just received word that Bob Eves of Syracuse,
long time S modeler, was in a severe auto accident
Nov. 10. His wife Gail says that your prayers will
be appreciated. He has come a long way, and has
a long way to go until he is back on his feet.

Ted Larson mhrreast@...
Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/corp/features/space/today08Pictures.shtml

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
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or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]


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Message: 8
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 22:56:59 -0500
From: Nick and Becky Colleran <colleran@...>
Subject: Re: Digest Number 50

Does anyone on the list have a source for the insulating material in the
earlier Gilber metal cased transformers such as the 4B and 8B? It appears to
be a fiberboard about the stiffness of a playing card.

Nick Colleran <colleran@...>



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Message: 9
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 23:57:33 -0600
From: seg@... (Steve Gruninger)
Subject: AF up for sale?

Commenting on Wayne Beachy's notes on MTH and S-ga, as well as the
question of what Lionel might offer in 1999 AF, I have a few
observations. The question may not be what new AF Lionel plans to issue
next year, but rather if they'll issue any at all. There was an
interesting letter in the AFCC Fall 1998 issue of the Collector (p. 38)
which indicates that now Lionel might be serious, indeed, about selling
the AF business and getting out of S-gauge for good. This might make
sense, since their products are inferior to SHS and American Models but
are not cheaper. After making an effort to bring back the Gilbert name
on the old-style blue & yellow boxes, they neutralized this gain by
foolishly stamping "Made by Lionel" on the sides of 1998 AF products.
And we all know the SD40 blunder. Also the current aftermarket for AF
by Lionel is horrid. Ebay auctions never seem to bring a good price for
AF by Lionel, dealers in the Chicago area don't want to stock new AF,
and existing stock is being unloaded at deep discounts. Did anyone
notice that Charles Ro is now selling the 1998 Milwaukee Road and
Southern AF geeps for $140 each ($250 reg price)? In my opinion, Lionel
has squandered the goodwill of AF collectors/operators, and AF has
become a money-loosing venture. At least 85% of my new S-gauge dollars
are going to SHS and American Models. Based on Wolf's comments to Wayne
Beachy, it seems clearer to me that as we approach the 20th anniversary
of the post-Gilbert AF reintroduction, AF is about to enter a new (and
better) age of development (and prosperity).

Steve Gruninger


____________________________________________________________________________
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Message: 10
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 09:06:49 -0500
From: Robin Thompson <robin@...>
Subject: Re: Rail Joiners

Dear Ted,
We had both yellow and weathered (brown) insulated rail joiners made
for our new track system. But, the base of our rail is 0.020" narrower
than the code 148 rail. I beleive if the base is filed a little, our
insulated rail joiners could be made to fit.
Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
http://www.showcaseline.com


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Message: 11
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 09:19:32 -0500
From: "PatnDave" <patndave@...>
Subject: Scale Roller Bearing Trucks

I too have the desire to some day see true roller bearing trucks with
actual rotating bearing caps. I've been contemplating a method to
accomplish this for a long time but have never actually experimented with
it. The furthest my design has come so far was rough sketches on paper.
Without drawings, It may be difficult to describe and understand here but I
thought I'd toss it out to Chris and the S-list for discussion and feed
back. Short of locating small enough actual ball or roller bearings , if
they even exist at any cost, I think this approach might be a do-able idea
with some further refining and the right combination of materials, or it
may at least be another approach to what you might be considering.
In the past, my first and foremost consideration has been that all my
trucks be as free rolling as possible on the premise that the easier they
roll the more cars can be pulled. The introduction of the needle or
"pointed axle" and "cone bearing" to model railroading and later to S scale
a number of years ago eliminated those concerns, almost to the point...
could the roll-ability be too good? Some will say not, while others will
agree. Myself, I still contend the more free rolling the better but I feel
I've come to realize the fact that the pointed axle design has brought to
model railroading the ultimate in roll-ability and may not ever be equaled
in that category.
So, with that in mind I based my design on the "pointed axle , cone
bearing" theory, but instead of the axle being pointed I place the "point"
in the truck side frame bearing.
The Side Frame: Picture a cut-a-way or cross sectional view of a cone
bearing truck side frame cut through the center point of the cone bearing.
You would see about a 60 degree included angle or horizontal "V" of the
bearing to the back side of the frame. Now add a second opposing horizontal
"V" to the face side of the frame to form a vertical "V" so its point is
centered to the thickness of the frame . Now, a full front face view with
the new bearing type thus far, picture the horizontal center line across
the bearing journal/axle centers. Cut almost half of the lower bearing
journal away leaving slightly more than half or about a 185 degree arc of
the upper bearing journal half. This would look much like the prototype
side frame and would allow the axle to be snap fitted into place.
The Axle: The axle ends are now straight but the bearing contact area is
reduced in diameter to an appropriate size determined by the inside
diameter of the bearing in the side frame. The area were the axle is
reduced in size and meets with the full axle size is not a square shoulder
but a taper of a value slightly less than the angle of the bearing.
The Bearing Cap: The cap is made with the same angle on the back as the
axle shaft has with a blind hole in the center to provide a press fit onto
the axle end. When the axle and cap are assembled, a "V" is formed but is
slightly wider angularity than the side frame "V" bearing to provide
clearance and minimal surface contact between the axle and bearing. Also,
the "V" that is formed has no actual bottom "v-point" as does the side
frame bearing but in stead has a flat land of perhaps .005 or .010 of an
inch. Axles are snapped into the side frame (before or after?) the bearing
caps are installed.
Picture then, the sharp "V" pointed side frame bearing made of a self
lubricating (slippery) type of plastic running on the smooth flat metal
axle surface yet restricted and confined laterally by the "V" shape of the
axle ends.
So that's it. I realize several things about this design my not coincide
with the usual methods of model railroad truck manufacturing and that
this would also mean closer attention to much closer tolerances which may
even make it cost prohibitive. What do you think?

Dave


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Message: 12
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 09:19:54 EST
From: mhrreast@...
Subject: Photos


Paul Yorke has asked for photos of modules.
I have made several attempts to get good photos
of modules in use, and I've not been happy with the
results. If the photo is taken at any kind of angle, the
module is at a diagonal in the photo, and there is
lots of dead space in the opposite corners. If the
photo is taken staight on, the close module is
brightly lit, and the background is very dark.

Any suggestions for taking good photos?

Ted Larson mhrreast@...
Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/corp/features/space/today08Pictures.shtml

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Message: 13
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 12:34:31 EST
From: RBubeck327@...
Subject: Re: AF up for sale?


In a message dated 11/21/98 12:59:39 AM, seg@... wrote:

<<Based on Wolf's comments to Wayne
Beachy, it seems clearer to me that as we approach the 20th anniversary
of the post-Gilbert AF reintroduction, AF is about to enter a new (and
better) age of development (and prosperity).>>

I sincerely hope that both Wayne's and Steve's collective optimism is well-
placed, but I am afraid that I read Mike Wolf's comments with a darker side.
Although Mike is quoted as saying a number of "nice things" about S gauge,
please note that he has not seriously committed to anything. The capital
being consumed in the O gauge wars between Lionel and MTH will most likely
preclude either one doing anything substantial in S. Because of the need
for
money, this also probably means that, as before with Richard Kughn, Lionel
L.L.C. will ask too much for the AF name and dies.

Mike has allowed himself an almost perpetual "out" by saying that he will
not
get in S as long as the electronic sound and CC systems are not as good as
those in O. Because of the relative size of the equipment, it will usually
be
cheaper to accomplish the latest advancement in O gauge equipment (e.g., for
simple starters, the speaker size will always be bigger and sound better in
O.). One way out for S is to put much of what is required in the way of
electronics systems into dedicated box cars and passenger cars rather than
in
the engines. This route has been available for some time, but no one has
made
the commitment in capital to do so. I, as the rest of you, pray that Lionel
will eventually sell off the Gilbert name and dies to a competent firm at
some
price that permits the buyer to prosper. But until then, SHS and AM are the
principal high quality games in town for new equipment to be purchased by
and
for adults (The stuff is too fragile to give to a seven year old.).

As for me, I will continue to spend the majority my train dollars on
original
Gilbert 3/16" scale postwar and prewar equipment (with a sprinkling of SHS
and
AM thrown in) because that is what I like and enjoy. I believe that we in S
should recogonize that S is a size, scale, operating practice, and history
that has appeal for the more decriminating enthusiast than it does for the
mainstream customer (HO and O). It has been from the beginning and, thus,
will probably continue.

RB


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Message: 14
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 09:46:12 +0000
From: kelvin white <kelvin@...>
Subject: MPSG email list

In message <36560037.79784E2D@...>, Paul Yorke <yorke@...>
writes
>I would be willing to put your names and e-mail on a MPSG web page.
>
>If your would NOT like your name and/or e-mail on a MPSG page let me
>know.
>I don't know, but some folks might not want their e-mail address 'out
>there', others might not want their name 'out there'.
>If I don't here I will assume that it is OK with you do display your
>name and e-mail , as a member of the MPSG.
>I will wait a week. I can always remove it later, if you change your
>mind.

Paul

Its OK by me to list my Email address.
--
Kelvin White
Oxford England


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Message: 15
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 15:52:16 -0500
From: Robin Thompson <robin@...>
Subject: Re: AF up for sale?

Dear Steve,
Regrettably, Lionel abandoned the AF collector the day they started
to
remake the exact same paint schemes as Gilbert produced. e.g. The
market pressure for a NP "Northcoast Limited" set was diminished when
they brought out the identical set a few years back. As they continued
to offer more of these reproduced sets, the value of the original flyer
did not increase and in many instances started to fall. Instead of
concentrating on producing items from new tooling, they squeezed what
they could out of the market with the old tooling. In essence, they
gave away market share to any company that could produce truly new
products that could be operated on AF track. I always felt that the
Heavyweight passenger cars brought out by ourselves and American Models
was the beginning of the end of Lionels dominance in the RTR AF market.
And the AM pacific steam engine introduced last year had to be another
blow to Lionels leadership position in the S gauge market.
As we all know, S is not the flagship gauge to Lionel, but is just a
very small percentage of their overall gross. But their bread and
butter commodity, the 0-27 line, is being assaulted on all sides. I am
sure that they are now trying to refocus their efforts on O gauge in
hopes to shore up what market share they have left. Ask you hobby shop
friends about what MTH is doing to Lionels market share in the Chicago
area, not to mention the new "O" products from United and Atlas. As
well as the long time competitors of K-line, Williams, Weaver and 3rd
Rail. With all of the over saturation of "O" gauge products and Lionel
losing much of their market share, it is no wonder that their interest
in the AF line is not at the high level all of us would like to see.
I do not believe that Wellspring LLC is interested in parting with
the
American Flyer line. Lionel is worth more on the market with AF than
without. They know that anyone who could afford to purchase AF would
also have the resources to get it back on to the market and ultimately
competing with the 027 entry level set market.
Don Thompson


Steve Gruninger wrote:
>
> From: seg@... (Steve Gruninger)
>
> Commenting on Wayne Beachy's notes on MTH and S-ga, as well as the
> question of what Lionel might offer in 1999 AF, I have a few
> observations. The question may not be what new AF Lionel plans to issue
> next year, but rather if they'll issue any at all. There was an
> interesting letter in the AFCC Fall 1998 issue of the Collector (p. 38)
> which indicates that now Lionel might be serious, indeed, about selling
> the AF business and getting out of S-gauge for good. This might make
> sense, since their products are inferior to SHS and American Models but
> are not cheaper. After making an effort to bring back the Gilbert name
> on the old-style blue & yellow boxes, they neutralized this gain by
> foolishly stamping "Made by Lionel" on the sides of 1998 AF products.
> And we all know the SD40 blunder. Also the current aftermarket for AF
> by Lionel is horrid. Ebay auctions never seem to bring a good price for
> AF by Lionel, dealers in the Chicago area don't want to stock new AF,
> and existing stock is being unloaded at deep discounts. Did anyone
> notice that Charles Ro is now selling the 1998 Milwaukee Road and
> Southern AF geeps for $140 each ($250 reg price)? In my opinion, Lionel
> has squandered the goodwill of AF collectors/operators, and AF has
> become a money-loosing venture. At least 85% of my new S-gauge dollars
> are going to SHS and American Models. Based on Wolf's comments to Wayne
> Beachy, it seems clearer to me that as we approach the 20th anniversary
> of the post-Gilbert AF reintroduction, AF is about to enter a new (and
> better) age of development (and prosperity).
>
> Steve Gruninger
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
> service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
> http://www.onelist.com/advert.html for more information.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info -
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm


____________________________________________________________________________
___
____________________________________________________________________________
___

Message: 16
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 18:03:05 -0800
From: Roger Hinds <cofa@...>
Subject: Re: Digest Number 50

Nick and Becky Colleran wrote:

Does anyone on the list have a source for the insulating material in the
> earlier Gilber metal cased transformers such as the 4B and 8B? It appears
to
> be a fiberboard about the stiffness of a playing card.

Use varnished cardboard. Or cover cardboard with fiberglass resin.

Roger


____________________________________________________________________________
___
____________________________________________________________________________
___
Group: S-Trains Message: 510 From: donrich Date: 11/22/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 51
> Alex Binkly wrote:

> I think is a great example of what our group could do to make S scale
> even better. It's like Chuck Smith's suggestion of an EOT or the
> bulkhead
> cars Denis Fortier has suggested.
> keep us informed, OK?

- Accurate Lighting already makes an EOT device for HO scale but it's
really too big for HO, ... perfect for S scale. It comes mounted on a
Kadee number 5 coupler. I removed mine from the number 5 and put it on a
Kadee 802. It now runs on the end of an American Models 50' MP/UP
boxcar, ... the NMRA car without the NMRA placards installed.

- Additionally, I removed the flasher IC from the battery holder, built
a 1 1/2 volt regulator circuit for it and added pickup wheels so it now
runs off track power instead of battery.

- You can see pictures of both the amber and red EOT devices at:
http://www.walthers.com/htbin/waltprodinfo?part_no=144-61001
http://www.walthers.com/htbin/waltprodinfo?part_no=144-61002

--

dr
-- IndigOhio '98 :)
Group: S-Trains Message: 511 From: donrich Date: 11/22/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 51
> Message: 8
> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 22:56:59 -0500
> From: Nick and Becky Colleran <colleran@...>
> Subject: Re: Digest Number 50
>
> Does anyone on the list have a source for the insulating material in the
> earlier Gilber metal cased transformers such as the 4B and 8B? It appears to
> be a fiberboard about the stiffness of a playing card.
>
> Nick Colleran <colleran@...>

- It's called FISH PAPER and is probably available at your local motor
rewinding shop. Check the yellow pages. Today's fish paper is usually
thinner but is stronger with better insulating properties.

--

dr
-- IndigOhio '98 :)
Group: S-Trains Message: 512 From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx Date: 11/22/1998
Subject: Madison roof
So far no response to my inquiry about Madison roofs. The question arises
because the cars in the American Models passenger-train sets are
described as having Madison roofs. Surely someone on the S-Trains circuit
knows. Is a Madison just a clerestory roof? Is it a variation of the
clerestory? Is the clerestory roof modelled by American Flyer years ago a
Madison? And who was Madison, anyway? The guy who put the overalls in
Mrs. Murphy's chowder? Joe Pereira

email: sigma@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 513 From: Kempfam@xxx.xxx Date: 11/22/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 51
I e-mailed Lionel last week about their 1999 plans for Gilbert. Their one
sentence response said "should be some AF in the next catalog." Not too
encouraging. I'm not sure that it really matters all that much anymore with
AM & SHS in the rtr market.
Ron Kemp
Buffalo, NY
Group: S-Trains Message: 514 From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx Date: 11/22/1998
Subject: Re: Madison roof
In a message dated 11/22/98 1:16:27 PM, sigma@... wrote:

<<So far no response to my inquiry about Madison roofs. The question arises
because the cars in the American Models passenger-train sets are
described as having Madison roofs. Surely someone on the S-Trains circuit
knows. Is a Madison just a clerestory roof?>>

The term "Madison" roof is intended, I believe, to mean clerestory roof.
Someone is using the term "Madison" in the sense of what the Lionel folk
intend to mean when discussing the rooves for their top of the line O gauge
heavyweight passenger cars. You might remember that the first near scale
Lionel heavyweights acquired the label "Madison" (e.g., Manhatten, Irvington,
and Madison which are towns or cities close to the Lionel NJ plant) cars
because one of the coaches had that name on its side. The use of the term in
this instance is incorrect.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 515 From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade Date: 11/22/1998
Subject: Only Eight Days Left
Only eight days left to take advantage of our 25% off sale!

Visit http://www.btsrr.com/btssale.htm for more details.

Take care, and have a safe Thanksgiving!
Bill

--
=============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================
Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer
Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218
B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com
S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com
Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 516 From: Richard Snook Date: 11/22/1998
Subject: modern and P64 lists
Hi de Hi (and hello campers for kelvin)

I would gladly be included on any proposed modern and P64 lists, am happy to be out there!! Please , a moment to explain to others,from my perspective, this is not an attempt to alienate or make exclusive any of these SIG's, just a more efficient method of communicating to like-interested souls. As with any group there will undoubtedly be goings on in the backgound which might only involve those in the process, until something say reaches "the pipeworks stage"and by its own inertia be ready for general dispersement, and indeed be of any interst to "S" in general.Otherwise lists like these will become full of nitty gritty traffic, not of interest to many?? I for 1 will certainly still eagerly await the daily info brought to me via the S-List.

cheers :-)) Richard
Group: S-Trains Message: 517 From: Robin Thompson Date: 11/22/1998
Subject: Re: Madison roof
Dear Joe,
Yes, a Madison roof is just a clerestory roof. I assume they are
called that by our "L" friends as the "Madison" cars had these. The
cars had the name "Madison" on the side. Madison is a small town west
of Hillside, NJ which was the home of Lionel (God, wasn't I not born in
CT instead of the home state of Lionel). They are very desirable and
were introduced again in 027 by Williams in the late 70's. The original
"Madison" cars were made by "L" in the 30's out of Bakelite� (Another
New Jersey product, by Union Carbide, I think?).
Of course our own A C Gilbert Co. also had cars with clerestory roofs,
but being more interested in accurate models of train, they had
different names on each car like "Pikes Peak", "Niagara Falls" and
"Grand Canyon".
Don Thompson
Group: S-Trains Message: 518 From: Vic Bereskin Date: 11/22/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 51
Go to any good auto parts store and ask for paper gasket material. This
stuf is used for making cut-to-fit gaskets for thermostat housings and the
like, and is virtually identical to the insulating paper used by Gilbert.

Vic Bereskin

>
>Message: 8
> Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 22:56:59 -0500
> From: Nick and Becky Colleran <colleran@...>
>Subject: Re: Digest Number 50
>
>Does anyone on the list have a source for the insulating material in the
>earlier Gilber metal cased transformers such as the 4B and 8B? It appears
to
>be a fiberboard about the stiffness of a playing card.
>
>Nick Colleran <colleran@...>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 519 From: Charles L. Day Date: 11/23/1998
Subject: Digest Number 52
Message text written by INTERNET:S-Trains@onelist.com
><

Wayne Beachy says,

>In late 60's my father bought a hand held calculator for $300.

Wayne, If you go back 8 to 10 years to the early 60's, the only hand held
calulator one could buy was a slide rule and any electro-mechanical
calculator was a desk model about 2/3 the size of a 14" computer monitor
costing a minumum of $755 to $995 dollars!!

charles day
Group: S-Trains Message: 520 From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx Date: 11/23/1998
Subject: (no subject)
Thanks to all who helped enlighten me in re Madison. Now that I'm aware of
the Lionel connection I will never use the term again.
How much appeal do you think an eight-hatch reefer might have? For 20
years, throughout the steam-to-diesel transition period and until
supplanted by the mechanical reefer, this car was seen all
over North America wearing the road names Canadian National, Canadian
Pacific, Pacific Great Eastern and Grand Trunk Western. I think it would
sell well, but I will bow to superior wisdom. Joe Pereira

email: sigma@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 521 From: David Dewey Date: 11/23/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 52
Charles,
What's a slide rule???

David D.
(<RBG>!!)
(BTW, somewhere around here I have a TI Business Analyist II hand held $200
Calculator, and a TI 99/A 'home computer' with cassette tape memory
modual!--still in the box--anyone want to buy a museum piece?????)
Group: S-Trains Message: 522 From: David Dewey Date: 11/23/1998
Subject: Re: (no subject)
Hmm,
Was it ever used by PFE?? If so, that covers a LOT of North American
scenes/eras!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 523 From: David Dewey Date: 11/23/1998
Subject: New oil drum loader?
Hi all,
I've heard a rumor that L is making the AF oil drum loader again, but as
an L accessory. Just explored the web site, couldn't find anything, but
thought maybe some of you might know what's up?
Wish they'd do the sawmill.......
S'
David
PS, sorry I missed S-chat, probably won't make it next Sunday either, I'll
be out of town.
Group: S-Trains Message: 524 From: Paul Yorke Date: 11/23/1998
Subject: Don't use 'Reply'
Please don't use 'reply' when you are reading the 'digest', start a
'new' message and address it to 'S-Trains@onelist.com', or the person on
the list that you want to send the note to.

Yesterdays S-Trains got bloated to 40K when someone used the 'reply' key
and sent the 27K from the previous day along with a short message
'unsubscribe' to the robot that does the daily 'Digest'. Well that robot
did not recognize the 'unsubscribe'. And as a result many of your mail
tools were unable to inhale 40K worth of note.

I put a repaired version of the note out on the message board. see
http://www.InsideTheWeb.com/messageboard/mbs.cgi?acct=mb19857

If you visit the OneList site you can view the
archive.http://www.onelist.com/arcindex.cgi?listname=S%2DTrains
(bookmark this one)

If you need I can send you a copy of it. (be gentle with this option,
there is 292 of you and one of me)

If you have a List request, or question, send it to me. I promise to
respond. (send twice if I don't)

Please don't use 'reply' when you are reading the 'digest', start a
'new' message and address it to 'S-Trains@onelist.com' , or the person
on the list that you want to send the note to.

--
Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl.
American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)
Group: S-Trains Message: 525 From: Alex Binkley Date: 11/23/1998
Subject: computor woes (especially for modern prototype group)
Hi:
My computor flamed out during the weekend. the hard drive is OK but much
of Mod proto group stuff is still in my mucked up inbox. I can't get at
it. I will try to reconstitiute the list I had as well as adding
robin thompson and one other gentleman who contacted me.
meanwhile don richard's had an interesting approach to the EOT
issue. have to try read that again.
cheers
--
Alex Binkley,
Hammond, Ontario, Canada
Group: S-Trains Message: 526 From: John Foley Date: 11/24/1998
Subject: Happy Thanksgiving
Hi Folks
Just a quick note to say HAPPY THANKSGIVING to all the folks on the
S-Trains List And to thier families who put up with us and our trains all
year
long. HA!! HA!!
Your Friend
John Foley
Eastern VP NASG
Group: S-Trains Message: 527 From: Kempfam@xxx.xxx Date: 11/24/1998
Subject: Saw Mill Oil Drum Loader
Lionel made both accessories in different colors than the old Gilbert. Too
much red if I recall.
Group: S-Trains Message: 528 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 11/25/1998
Subject: Thanksgiving
Give thanks indeed. Have a happy. With a little luck I'll get to weave a
trip to New Hope (they have an active steam engine), Lancaster (All Aboard
opens their all-AF display to the public on 11/28), Strasburg (another
active steamer, plus TCA and PRR museums) into our trip to the grandparents
for turkey-day. Just a couple of "minor" detours. Gotta love those family
members, especially wives (the kids are easy), who put up with us train
nuts.
Group: S-Trains Message: 529 From: RBalli5085@xxx.xxx Date: 11/25/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 54
new address rballinge02@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 530 From: RBalli5085@xxx.xxx Date: 11/25/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 54
correction on new address...should read... rballinger02@... thanks
Group: S-Trains Message: 531 From: David Dewey Date: 11/25/1998
Subject: Happy Thanksgiving all!
Yo!!
Hope everyone has a great Thanksgiving this year. Stay safe on those
roads. I'll be away from my computer until Monday, running the family's
resort, so my brother's family can be with friends in 'the big city'--if
anyone is traveling I-5 through Dunsmuir, stop at Cave Springs & say "hi!"
(www.cavesprings.com)
S'incerely,
David Dewey
Watch the Railroad watch and repeat after me, "The future is in S, the
future is in S, the future is in S, the future...."
Group: S-Trains Message: 532 From: Paul Yorke Date: 11/25/1998
Subject: Thanks to All
Thanks to all who have made S-Trains website and mailing list so
successful.
We moves S-Trains, and in the first two weeks we had over 1 thousand
visits.
The mailing list is just short of 300 readers.
Thanks to you people that send me graphics and material for the site, I
will continue to work hard on your behalf.

PS. I updated the links again.

--
Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl.
American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)
Group: S-Trains Message: 533 From: JFR040436@xxxxxx.xxx Date: 11/25/1998
Subject: Barrel Loader (by Lionel)
The latest catalog From the "L" people does show the Barrel Loader. It
is showen with American Flyer cars so they didn't even take a new picture.
Who knows what color they will make it, but yes they do show it as an O27
accessory.
Group: S-Trains Message: 534 From: Ken Zieska Date: 11/25/1998
Subject: Happy Thanksgiving
I received my SHS Christmas Caboose and it is beautiful. I am looking
forward to getting the others that I ordered. This is another beautiful
addition for S and clearly more interesting than a FRED.
Group: S-Trains Message: 535 From: Robin Thompson Date: 11/26/1998
Subject: Re: Happy Thanksgiving
Happy Thanksgiving to all,
(now the commercial)
Re:: SHS product update:
The Christmas cabooses are sold out. We have a list of orders that now
cover the reservations (12) that have not responded to our letters. If
you have had one on order and have not received it, please contact us
ASAP.
The next batch of cabooses are due in two weeks. They include: Chessie
(#1 only), Santa Fe, BN, MP Seaboard and D&D&RGW. Also in that
container will be the 15" straight track, extra rail joiner (insulated,
metal and feeder wires).
The second air shipment of track will be received next week. This will
include sets and some curved track. These are to cover orders already
received and a few extra that are still available. We will also be
shipping a case of the AF connectors (240 pkgs).
The balance of roadnames are due to leave the factory tomorrow and are
expected Dec 23rd (almost great timing). Also in that container will be
the rest of the track (sets, curved and 10" straight track) and the 2nd
run of BHFC & SFC. The roadnames include AT&AT&SF, Chessie, D&H, GN,
MEC and SOO. The loads are the Wrapped Lumber Load (4 bundles).
Building Material Loads (1 large wrapped bundle) and the pulpwood loads.
Don Thompson
Group: S-Trains Message: 536 From: mary jo shutt Date: 11/26/1998
Subject: lamplighter
I received a Gabe the Lamplighter,however there is no wiring attached.
Need help with rewiring. The button has 5 solder lugs 1 on top, 4 on the
bottom. The tower itself,looks like a nightmare. Remnants of solder
under base on 1 tower support,1 clip, on rod to lights,another clip
attached to base between rod and solinoid,last is the solinoid wiring.
Also is there a spring needed on the lever of the solenoid??? ANY
DETAILED INSTRUCTIONS WOULD BE APPRECIATED.
thanks
Rick
Group: S-Trains Message: 537 From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx Date: 11/26/1998
Subject: Possible source of buildings for "S"
One of my model railway interest is British 00(4mm scale/16.5mm track gauge).
As H0 and 0 scale buildings are allway suggested as a ready source for
conversion to S, I started looking at some of my 00 buildings and
surprise!!!!! They look great next to my S scale buildings. S scale is about
5mm to the foot so 00 is not that much off compared to H0 and 0. A ready
source of easy and fairly inexpensive printed cardboard kits are available
from the British firms of Superquick and Metcalfe Models. They advertise in
two British railway magazines that I read monthly, RAILWAY MODELLER and MODEL
RAILWAY ENTHUSIAST. If you check the British Railway Modellers of North
America webb site you will find sources available in the US and Canada. Or
you can mail order from one of the many shops in the UK. Check it out! Happy
Thanksgiving, Tom Davis, Charlotte, N.C.
Group: S-Trains Message: 538 From: Hilary Smith Date: 11/26/1998
Subject: Re: Rail Joiners
Ted:

Assuming you haven't been buried under informative responses, code 148 is a very common O scale size rail
so ... have you tried O scale suppliers like Old Pullman, or Right-O-Way? I realize that Code 148 made
for S scale won't necessarily have the same proportions as .148 made for O, but they might work.

As sources for O scale, you might try P&D Hobbies, 810-296-6116 or Chicagoland Hobbies, 773-775-4848.



Hilary Smith
Northern Virginia


mhrreast@... wrote:

> From: mhrreast@...
>
> Does anybody know a source for Insulated Rail Joiners
> usable with code 148 rail? These would make our
> module building SO MUCH easier.
>
> Ted Larson mhrreast@...
> Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division
> http://www.kodak.com/US/en/corp/features/space/today08Pictures.shtml
>
> ___________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
> or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info - http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm
Group: S-Trains Message: 539 From: Craig S. O'Connell Date: 11/27/1998
Subject: Re: Possible source of buildings for "S"
Tom Davis, Charlotte, N.C. wrote:

>One of my model railway interest is British 00(4mm scale/16.5mm track gauge).
>As H0 and 0 scale buildings are allway suggested as a ready source for
>conversion to S, I started looking at some of my 00 buildings and
>surprise!!!!! They look great next to my S scale buildings. S scale is about
>5mm to the foot so 00 is not that much off compared to H0 and 0. A ready
>source of easy and fairly inexpensive printed cardboard kits are available
>from the British firms of Superquick and Metcalfe Models.

snip...snip....

If one is looking for inexpensive sources for S buildings check out the
excellent cardstock products now being made in S gauge by Westport Model
Works. Their website is at:

http://www.connix.com/~drawings/

The owner of the company, Les Lewis, makes a variety of cardstock building
fronts, sides, etc... in S scale and with a little imagination, some foam
core and an Xacto you could build an entire city! By the way, the "S
Gaugian" reviewed these products in the current issue.

Craig S. O'Connell
S Scale Model Railroading
http://trainweb.com/crocon/sscale.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 540 From: steve roche Date: 11/27/1998
Subject: Electromagnetic Crane
As I go through my annual ritual of setting up my layout for the
holidays, I find that the gremlins have been at work on several pieces
of equipment that were so thoroughly cleaned and tested back in January
before being packed away.
My problem is with my electromagnetic crane. It is an earlier version
with a reversing unit. It seems that the wire attached to the magnet has
come loose from the crane. In attempting to reattach there was no
evident spot where it came loose. Does anybody have a clue where this
wire would reattach.
Also, I'm not sure if this is the proper forum(please forgive me if it
isn't) but i am looking for a tender for a 350 Royal Blue. if anyone has
one they could part with please let me know. The color doesn't matter as
I will probably repaint as I believe AF used this same tender on other
models. Thanks Steve R.
Group: S-Trains Message: 541 From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx Date: 11/27/1998
Subject: Tank cars
Several years ago someone (I forget who) offered a tank car lettered for
Imperial Oil. Does anyone know where this car might still be available?
Joe Pereira

email: sigma@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 542 From: BenTrous@xxx.xxx Date: 11/27/1998
Subject: Code .148 Rail Joiners
With much help from Diane at Bill's Train Shop, I was able to locate code .125
insulated rail joiners from Old Pullman. The package actually says they are
for code .148 and .125 and I believe it. They are black plastic and rather
bulky and I am hesitant to use them on my code .125 yet-to-be track work.

Ben Trousdale
Group: S-Trains Message: 543 From: Robin Thompson Date: 11/27/1998
Subject: Re: Code .148 Rail Joiners
Dear Ben,
In two weeks we will have both yellow and weathered rust brown rail
joiners that will work with code 125 rail. But it is too tight a fit to
work of the code 148.
Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.

BenTrous@... wrote:
>
> From: BenTrous@...
>
>....I was able to locate code .125
> insulated rail joiners from Old Pullman. The package actually says they are
> for code .148 and .125 and I believe it. They are black plastic and rather
> bulky and I am hesitant to use them on my code .125 yet-to-be track work.
Group: S-Trains Message: 544 From: PortLines@xxx.xxx Date: 11/28/1998
Subject: Re: - tankcar
In a message dated 11/28/98 3:44:32 AM, you wrote:

<<Several years ago someone (I forget who) offered a tank car lettered for

Imperial Oil. Does anyone know where this car might still be available?

Joe Pereira

>>
Not sure about the one you're referring to, but Downs makes a beautiful
Atlantic Imperial Oil tankcar in S, both scale and highrail.
We have it in stock at the moment.
Doug
MC/VISA/DISCOVER/AMEX accepted.
Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)
Port Lines Hobby Supply
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Port Lines @ aol.com http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 545 From: Paul Yorke Date: 11/29/1998
Subject: Survey - last look
Please take one last preliminary look at
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/info/survey.htm
It needs your suggestions.
Remember this is a tool to help connect like minded folks.
It must identify your interests.
Hope everybody had a good Holiday.


--
Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl.
American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)
Group: S-Trains Message: 546 From: kelvin white Date: 11/29/1998
Subject: British 4mm buildings for S scale.
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 15:00:22 EST
From: TPDavis7@...
Subject: Possible source of buildings for "S"

One of my model railway interest is British 00(4mm scale/16.5mm track
gauge).
As H0 and 0 scale buildings are allway suggested as a ready source for
conversion to S, I started looking at some of my 00 buildings and
surprise!!!!! They look great next to my S scale buildings. S scale is
about 5mm to the foot so 00 is not that much off compared to H0 and 0.
A ready source of easy and fairly inexpensive printed cardboard kits are
available from the British firms of Superquick and Metcalfe Models.
They advertise in two British railway magazines that I read monthly,
RAILWAY MODELLER and MODEL RAILWAY ENTHUSIAST. If you check the
British Railway Modellers of North America webb site you will find
sources available in the US and Canada. Or you can mail order from one
of the many shops in the UK. Check it out! Happy Thanksgiving, Tom
Davis, Charlotte, N.C.

Hi Tom and others
4mm Scale is 19% smaller than S - I suspect that you will find that the
style of the British Superquick Buildings etc is too British for an
American layout. However I make extensive use of the Wills Plastic
mouldings for bricks, stonework, corrugated iron etc. It is meant to be
4mm but is overscale - fine for S. However I don't know if it is
available in the USA

--
Kelvin White
Oxford England
Group: S-Trains Message: 547 From: Keith Thompson Date: 11/29/1998
Subject: Re: British 4mm buildings for S scale.
I've bought Wills materials from The British Connection in London Ontario.
They have a web page at http://members.home.net:80/britishconnect/ if you
want to give them a try. I met them at the Canadian Hobby show a few years
back when they had a booth across the aisle (isle?) from Kalmbach's.

Another source of 00 materials are the old Airfix buildings and details
that were imported by AHM back in the '70s.

Now what about Ratio, Peco, Hornby and that lot? Do they have anything to
offer to S scalers? I'll check them out and get back to you. -- Keith
Thompson in Seattle

At 05:36 PM 11/29/98 +0000, kelvin white wrote:
>From: kelvin white <kelvin@...>
>
>Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 15:00:22 EST
> From: TPDavis7@...
>Subject: Possible source of buildings for "S"
>
>One of my model railway interest is British 00(4mm scale/16.5mm track
>gauge).
>As H0 and 0 scale buildings are allway suggested as a ready source for
>conversion to S, I started looking at some of my 00 buildings and
>surprise!!!!! They look great next to my S scale buildings. S scale is
>about 5mm to the foot so 00 is not that much off compared to H0 and 0.
>A ready source of easy and fairly inexpensive printed cardboard kits are
>available from the British firms of Superquick and Metcalfe Models.
>They advertise in two British railway magazines that I read monthly,
>RAILWAY MODELLER and MODEL RAILWAY ENTHUSIAST. If you check the
>British Railway Modellers of North America webb site you will find
>sources available in the US and Canada. Or you can mail order from one
>of the many shops in the UK. Check it out! Happy Thanksgiving, Tom
>Davis, Charlotte, N.C.
>
>Hi Tom and others
>4mm Scale is 19% smaller than S - I suspect that you will find that the
>style of the British Superquick Buildings etc is too British for an
>American layout. However I make extensive use of the Wills Plastic
>mouldings for bricks, stonework, corrugated iron etc. It is meant to be
>4mm but is overscale - fine for S. However I don't know if it is
>available in the USA
>
>--
>Kelvin White
>Oxford England
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
>service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
>http://www.onelist.com/advert.html for more information.
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info -
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 548 From: Keith Thompson Date: 11/29/1998
Subject: Re: British 4mm buildings for S scale.
Here's another company I forgot about until I posted my last reply --
Slater's. I've seen Slater's material at a couple of Chicago area hobby
shops so I'm sure they're available via a U.S. distributor. To find out
what Slater's offers, got to
http://www.slatersplastikard.com/architectural.html.-- Keith Thompson in
Seattle

At 09:14 PM 11/29/98 -0800, Keith Thompson wrote:
>From: Keith Thompson <kthompso@...>
>
>I've bought Wills materials from The British Connection in London Ontario.
>They have a web page at http://members.home.net:80/britishconnect/ if you
>want to give them a try. I met them at the Canadian Hobby show a few years
>back when they had a booth across the aisle (isle?) from Kalmbach's.
>
>Another source of 00 materials are the old Airfix buildings and details
>that were imported by AHM back in the '70s.
>
>Now what about Ratio, Peco, Hornby and that lot? Do they have anything to
>offer to S scalers? I'll check them out and get back to you. -- Keith
>Thompson in Seattle
>
>At 05:36 PM 11/29/98 +0000, kelvin white wrote:
>>From: kelvin white <kelvin@...>
>>
>>Message: 3
>> Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 15:00:22 EST
>> From: TPDavis7@...
>>Subject: Possible source of buildings for "S"
>>
>>One of my model railway interest is British 00(4mm scale/16.5mm track
>>gauge).
>>As H0 and 0 scale buildings are allway suggested as a ready source for
>>conversion to S, I started looking at some of my 00 buildings and
>>surprise!!!!! They look great next to my S scale buildings. S scale is
>>about 5mm to the foot so 00 is not that much off compared to H0 and 0.
>>A ready source of easy and fairly inexpensive printed cardboard kits are
>>available from the British firms of Superquick and Metcalfe Models.
>>They advertise in two British railway magazines that I read monthly,
>>RAILWAY MODELLER and MODEL RAILWAY ENTHUSIAST. If you check the
>>British Railway Modellers of North America webb site you will find
>>sources available in the US and Canada. Or you can mail order from one
>>of the many shops in the UK. Check it out! Happy Thanksgiving, Tom
>>Davis, Charlotte, N.C.
>>
>>Hi Tom and others
>>4mm Scale is 19% smaller than S - I suspect that you will find that the
>>style of the British Superquick Buildings etc is too British for an
>>American layout. However I make extensive use of the Wills Plastic
>>mouldings for bricks, stonework, corrugated iron etc. It is meant to be
>>4mm but is overscale - fine for S. However I don't know if it is
>>available in the USA
>>
>>--
>>Kelvin White
>>Oxford England
>>
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
>>service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
>>http://www.onelist.com/advert.html for more information.
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info -
>http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm
>>
>>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info -
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 549 From: L Montgomery Date: 11/30/1998
Subject: Snow Scene Material
Hi Folks,

I'm putting up a snow-scene Christmas AF layout and I've been unable to find white sheet foam (spongy headliner material) to use for the ground (snow) cover so I'm thinking of using the "Christmas Cover" material sold in 3'x8' sheets for use with ceramic Christmas villages. It doesn't seem to generate too much loose fuzz so I'm hoping this will work OK. If you have any advice pro or con, please let me know,

TIA

Monty
---
Fight Spam! Join CAUCE! == http://www.cauce.org/
Outlaw Junk Email! Support HR 1748.



-----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums
Group: S-Trains Message: 550 From: Mark Preman Date: 11/30/1998
Subject: December List Of American Flyer For Sale
The new list is up for your reading pleasure. Hope
you have a great holiday season. Mark B. Preman

http://members.tripod.com/~amerflyer
Group: S-Trains Message: 551 From: seg@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) Date: 11/30/1998
Subject: 772 checkerboard tank disassembly
I'm in the process of restoring a 772 checkerboard bubbling water tower. However, I don't see how the
tank is supposed to come off the tower. I've got a bad feeling that the the lower half of the tank is
attached to the tower, and then the upper half is glued in place. Any tips? Thanks.

Steve Gruninger
Group: S-Trains Message: 552 From: Tomlinson, John D Date: 11/30/1998
Subject: Replacement Motor Units
In the late 80s Dalee (I think) was offering some replacement motor units
for Flyer steam locomotives. Does anyone know what happened to these. I am
specifically looking for a replacement unit (DC) for a 4-6-4 which was
converted to scale many years ago -- and perhaps a companion 4-8-4 which was
also converted to scale.

John D. Tomlinson
> Configuration Mgmt Deployment - CA-Endevor Support
> 6-6M67 M/S: 6F-62 Bldg: 7-311.3
> Ph: (425) 477-4589 Pgr: (206) 986-5329 Hotline: (206) 655-HELP
> Boeing Web page: http://www-ads.ca.boeing.com/cmd
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 553 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 11/30/1998
Subject: All Aboard and others
I hope you had a great holiday. I got to make the train rounds as well as
have a great Thanksgiving with my family and friends! The live steamer at
New Hope is alive and well, the steamer and TCA museum in Strasburg are as
grand as ever, and All Aboard has quite a display of AF and AM trains,
accessories, etc. We missed the start of the "show" at All Aboard so I
don't know how closely they actually follow all 24 "events" outlined in
their brochure - - you should see and hear (barrel loader, log loader,
coal loader, talking station, etc.), but it appeared there was the means to
put on that much of a show if they wanted to. The Boards certainly have a
nice collection in cabinets along the walls, and their layout is without a
doubt the biggest AF/S-gauge I've ever seen. We drove ~2 hours to see it.
However, I'd have to say I was disappointed that the brochure mentions 20
trains running simultaneously (I think there was about 10), and the number
of post war American Flyer running was low (2-316's, one grey painted
Sliver Streak, and a PA ABA set) the rest were modern AM, which are nice
but there's noth'n like a Northern or Hudson..... But hey, it's all fun!
And I must say I now better appreciate what an AM Southern running
full-throttle with 10 passenger cars can do (i.e. faster, smokier, with
louder choo-choo than I expected). May actually cause me to rethink the
order of items on my wish list.

All Aboard is on Landis Valley Road near Lancaster. Check S-Gaugian for
advertisements and phone number. If you want I can provide you more info,
just don't have it with me at work.
Group: S-Trains Message: 554 From: Paul Yorke Date: 12/1/1998
Subject: Survey Time
The comment phase for the 'S-Survey' has ended. Thanks to all that
gave me all those great ideas. Some I used.
I hope everybody will take the time to fill in the questionare.
I noticed many of you were test driving the earlier versions of the
survey, I hope you will re-visit the page and fill in the actual
survey. http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/info/survey.htm

I shortened (not much) the survey and tried to stay away from subjective
labels. Instead I asked questions like 'AC or DC' and what kind of
track, couplers or wheels. Most folks are interseted in learning from
others experience, and that is the main goal of S-Trains.

We don't make money here, just friends.

--
Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl.
American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)
Group: S-Trains Message: 555 From: Brad Lee Rockwell Date: 12/1/1998
Subject: Roger Hinds track cleaner
I recieved Rogers two products just in time for our Christmas layout.They
work just as he says.Maybe better.Same results on my 1/32 slot car
track.Everyone on the list should buy some of this stuff from Roger &
we'll be happier people with shiny rails.Last time I used one of those
silly erasers.NO MORE! Thanks Roger!!!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 556 From: Steinkirchner, Alan Date: 12/1/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 60 Message 4 Replacement motor units
I purchased one of those Dallee can motor conversions that you're referring
to. If they still have them available, I wouldn't recommend them for the
following reasons:

1. You'll need the worm shaft gear from an existing A.F. armature. This is
fastened to the motor with a sleeve. You'll need to grind a flat spot on
the shaft so that the two screws in the sleeve can hold things in place.
You'll also need to grind down the screw heads.

2. You'll need to remove the brass bushing that holds the armature from the
engine chassis. The sleeve will not fit through this.

3. There was no fly-wheel on the motor. This made for very abrupt starts
and stops.

I recommend the conversion motor made by American Hi-rail (Tom Hodgson).
It's complete with fly-wheel and does not require any additional parts.
He's difficult to find at home, though.

Tom Hodgson
American Hi-rail
37695 Jeanette Ct.
Spring Grove IL 60081
847-587-1116

good luck,

Alan Steinkirchner

> -----Original Message-----
> From: S-Trains@onelist.com
> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 1998 04:18
> To: S-Trains@onelist.com
> Subject: [S-Trains] Digest Number 60
>
>
> Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
> service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
> http://www.onelist.com/advert.html for more information.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info -
> http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm
>
>
> There are 5 messages in this issue.
>
> Topics in today's digest:
>
> 1. Snow Scene Material
> From: "L Montgomery" <lmontgo@...>
> 2. December List Of American Flyer For Sale
> From: Mark Preman <amerflyer@...>
> 3. 772 checkerboard tank disassembly
> From: seg@... (Steve Gruninger)
> 4. Replacement Motor Units
> From: "Tomlinson, John D" <John.Tomlinson@...>
> 5. All Aboard and others
> From: David_Horn@...
>
>
> __________________________________________________________________________
> _____
> __________________________________________________________________________
> _____
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 07:16:54 -0700
> From: "L Montgomery" <lmontgo@...>
> Subject: Snow Scene Material
>
> Hi Folks,
>
> I'm putting up a snow-scene Christmas AF layout and I've been unable to
> find white sheet foam (spongy headliner material) to use for the ground
> (snow) cover so I'm thinking of using the "Christmas Cover" material sold
> in 3'x8' sheets for use with ceramic Christmas villages. It doesn't seem
> to generate too much loose fuzz so I'm hoping this will work OK. If you
> have any advice pro or con, please let me know,
>
> TIA
>
> Monty
> ---
> Fight Spam! Join CAUCE! == http://www.cauce.org/
> Outlaw Junk Email! Support HR 1748.
>
>
>
> -----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==-----
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums
>
>
> __________________________________________________________________________
> _____
> __________________________________________________________________________
> _____
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 08:47:34 -0800 (PST)
> From: Mark Preman <amerflyer@...>
> Subject: December List Of American Flyer For Sale
>
> The new list is up for your reading pleasure. Hope
> you have a great holiday season. Mark B. Preman
>
> http://members.tripod.com/~amerflyer
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________________________________
> _____
> __________________________________________________________________________
> _____
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 13:17:24 -0600
> From: seg@... (Steve Gruninger)
> Subject: 772 checkerboard tank disassembly
>
> I'm in the process of restoring a 772 checkerboard bubbling water tower.
> However, I don't see how the
> tank is supposed to come off the tower. I've got a bad feeling that the
> the lower half of the tank is
> attached to the tower, and then the upper half is glued in place. Any
> tips? Thanks.
>
> Steve Gruninger
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________________________________
> _____
> __________________________________________________________________________
> _____
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 11:46:12 -0800
> From: "Tomlinson, John D" <John.Tomlinson@...>
> Subject: Replacement Motor Units
>
> In the late 80s Dalee (I think) was offering some replacement motor units
> for Flyer steam locomotives. Does anyone know what happened to these. I
> am
> specifically looking for a replacement unit (DC) for a 4-6-4 which was
> converted to scale many years ago -- and perhaps a companion 4-8-4 which
> was
> also converted to scale.
>
> John D. Tomlinson
> > Configuration Mgmt Deployment - CA-Endevor Support
> > 6-6M67 M/S: 6F-62 Bldg: 7-311.3
> > Ph: (425) 477-4589 Pgr: (206) 986-5329 Hotline: (206) 655-HELP
> > Boeing Web page: http://www-ads.ca.boeing.com/cmd
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________________________________
> _____
> __________________________________________________________________________
> _____
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 17:18:38 -0500
> From: David_Horn@...
> Subject: All Aboard and others
>
> I hope you had a great holiday. I got to make the train rounds as well as
> have a great Thanksgiving with my family and friends! The live steamer at
> New Hope is alive and well, the steamer and TCA museum in Strasburg are as
> grand as ever, and All Aboard has quite a display of AF and AM trains,
> accessories, etc. We missed the start of the "show" at All Aboard so I
> don't know how closely they actually follow all 24 "events" outlined in
> their brochure - - you should see and hear (barrel loader, log loader,
> coal loader, talking station, etc.), but it appeared there was the means
> to
> put on that much of a show if they wanted to. The Boards certainly have a
> nice collection in cabinets along the walls, and their layout is without a
> doubt the biggest AF/S-gauge I've ever seen. We drove ~2 hours to see it.
> However, I'd have to say I was disappointed that the brochure mentions 20
> trains running simultaneously (I think there was about 10), and the number
> of post war American Flyer running was low (2-316's, one grey painted
> Sliver Streak, and a PA ABA set) the rest were modern AM, which are nice
> but there's noth'n like a Northern or Hudson..... But hey, it's all fun!
> And I must say I now better appreciate what an AM Southern running
> full-throttle with 10 passenger cars can do (i.e. faster, smokier, with
> louder choo-choo than I expected). May actually cause me to rethink the
> order of items on my wish list.
>
> All Aboard is on Landis Valley Road near Lancaster. Check S-Gaugian for
> advertisements and phone number. If you want I can provide you more info,
> just don't have it with me at work.
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________________________________
> _____
> __________________________________________________________________________
> _____
Group: S-Trains Message: 557 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 12/1/1998
Subject: Help start 'em young
My 3 year old daughter and 4 year old son (not to mention my wife) in for
an American Flyer surprise this Christmas. I recently bought them each a
single-cast 302AC and am now looking for some freight and/or passenger cars
to pull. Have you any that aren't up to your collection/operation
standards, but would be suitable for child's play? Thanks.
Group: S-Trains Message: 558 From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade Date: 12/1/1998
Subject: New Classified Ads have been posted
The subject says it all ....

http://www.btsrr.com/btsclas1.htm


Thanks,
Bill

--
=============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================
Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer
Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218
B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com
S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com
Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 559 From: Gregg Mummert Date: 12/1/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 60
>
> Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 07:16:54 -0700
> From: "L Montgomery" <lmontgo@...>
>Subject: Snow Scene Material
>
>Hi Folks,
>
>I'm putting up a snow-scene Christmas AF layout and I've been unable to
find white sheet foam (spongy headliner material) to use for the ground
(snow) cover so I'm thinking of using the "Christmas Cover" material
sold in 3'x8' sheets for use with ceramic Christmas villages. It
doesn't seem to generate too much loose fuzz so I'm hoping this will
work OK. If you have any advice pro or con, please let me know,
>
>TIA
>
>Monty
>---
Be careful with some of that "Christmas Cover," it pulls apart too
easily and gets wrapped up in the wheels! I am still pulling fuzz out
of cars and engines from last year's layout.
I found some poly batting (used for quilting, etc.) at JoAnn Fabric that
I plan to buy for this year's layout. It comes on a roll and in several
widths and thicknesses, depending on store stock (I found 45" and 54"
wide). You buy whatever length you need. I like the fact that I could
see it (not in a plastic bag) before I buy it. It is probably cheaper
than "Snow Village" or "Buffalo Snow", too.


Gregg Mummert
gmummert@...
S Gauge - the only way to Fly(er)!
Group: S-Trains Message: 560 From: John Foley Date: 12/1/1998
Subject: FOR SALE
>Delivered-To: FOLEY164@...
>From: EBT282@...
>Date: Tue, 1 Dec 1998 15:26:00 EST
>To: FOLEY164@...
>Subject: FOR SALE
>X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 230

Hi Folks
I am forwarding a e-mail that I got from my friend Jack Bartman. I do
not have Jack's address but you can e-mail him at EBT282@...

>
>Hi John,
>
>Hows things going? Well I just wanted to let you know that I have lost my
>interest in S scale all together. I no longer have free time because of work
>and the baby. I want to sell out what I have once and for all. The two
biggest
>things I have are a code 100 3x12 NASG compatible modual. It comes apart in
>two sections. It was formerly owned and built by Steve Kay of the Central
>Jersey group. It was built with manual switcheds but I have converted most
>over to tortoise powered switches. It works great and is ready to hook up
with
>any one elses modual. For a track plan look at my article about the EBT I
>wrote. The track plan is incorporated in it. Next I have the SSLS berk I
>bought from Don Ross. Its 90 percent done. It needs only a few minor detail
>parts and a motor installed. I am asking $250 for the modual and $300 for the
>berk. I would appreciate your help in selling theses items. I will compensate
>you for your time with trains if you like. I also have a bunch of unbuilt
>American Model and plastic boxcar kits I want to sell. I will accept LIONEL
>trains or American Flyer O guage as payment.
>
>

>
>
>
>Thanks,
>Jack Bartman
>Walden NY
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 561 From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade Date: 12/1/1998
Subject: AM Flats
Just received the box of standard flat cars. All are scale, assembled,
without loads.

http://www.btsrr.com/btssale.htm

Take care,
Bill
--
=============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================
Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer
Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218
B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com
S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com
Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 562 From: Alex Binkley Date: 12/1/1998
Subject: Marx truss bridge
In the Nov._Dec issue of S-Guagian, there is a note about a truss bridge
from Marx Trains. Wondering in anyone on the list has seen one and what
the impression of it are?
cheers
--
Alex Binkley,
Hammond, Ontario, Canada
Group: S-Trains Message: 563 From: EMarkA@xxx.xxx Date: 12/2/1998
Subject: AF Engines
Dear List:
Have primo AF Northern in original box and also Hudson and K5 in very very
nice condition both cosmetically and mechanically. 332, 322, 312. All three
have smoke and choo choo. Only Northern comes in original box. This Northern
is as close to mint as you can find. The Hudson is in great shape also close
to mint with only a very few minor paint mars. K5 is a little more worn but
still what I'd call excellent ++. All tires and insulators are tight and in
great shape. These three locos came from a very fine collection and they are
all running very well including reverse units. I also have several cars both
passenger and frieght all in excellent++ condition. If you have interest
please let me hear from you before I list these for sale on ebay.
Please reply to: emarka@...
Best regards,
Mark
Group: S-Trains Message: 564 From: Theodore Fabian Date: 12/2/1998
Subject: prices / values / infomation
hi,

I recently found an old American Flyer train set.. however, I'm looking
for prices / value estimates of the cars.. a dealer provided me an estimate
for the engine already, but didn't have his reference material handy for
the cars..


anyway, I'm kind of a novice at this.. so bear with me please..

what I've got:

2 "Gulf" tank cars numbered GRCX5016 24309

1 NM Red Caboose BLT 6-51 24603

2 Flat Bed cars w/pipes NH 24516

1 UP 24216 Hooper car blt 10/47

1 D&H 24113 Hopper car blt 6/42 new 4/42

1 Penn 24106 Hopper car

1 ATSF 24003 Box Car

1 IC 24403 Refigerator box car blt 2/32 new 2/37

1 NH 24539 Flat bed car / pipes & wood

1 C&O 911 Hopper car 4/48


the engine is a 21145 (I think, I didn't copy it down).. the dealer told me
it was worth about $550-$600..


I'm told they're all S Gauge/080 scale..


what do the rest of the car designations above refer to?? my descriptions
may be slightly off..


is there a web site that I can search for information on these pieces at??



thanks,


Ted



---------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks,
Ted Fabian NASA Lewis Research Center
Cleveland, Ohio 44135

tfabian@...
theodore.fabian@...
http://zeta.lerc.nasa.gov/ted.htm

get my pgp public key at

http://pgpkeys.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x6EEB86CD

Disclaimer: My opinions are My Own, Not NASA's....
---------------------------------------------------------------
Group: S-Trains Message: 565 From: TerryMacE@xxx.xxx Date: 12/2/1998
Subject: Electronic Whistle Controller
Greetings Paul,

If you have already answered this one, could you please forward a copy of the
answer.

I have an AF Electronic Whistle Controller. It appears not to have any AF
numbering. I have the original instruction sheet (which is reproduced in the
K-Line Complete Service Manual). Does anyone know which engines this
controller works with?

Thanks for your help!

Terry MacEwen
Group: S-Trains Message: 566 From: David Dewey Date: 12/2/1998
Subject: Re: prices / values / infomation
Ted,
What you have here is the '58 Yard King Special Set number 20460. You
are missing one UP Hopper car, there were two originally. Set also came with
enough track and a crossover piece to make a figure 8 and track locks. Train
is long enough that the caboose just clears the crossover before the engine
enters it (Near hit, but miss feature). This was the longest set produced by
AC, and the only time the 21145 switcher was in a set. the one three-digit
gon car (911) is typical for this set, though it's not noted in Greenbergs.
You may have more value to the cars by keeping them all together with this
engine, but I can't swear by that! Without looking things up, I believe the
UP hoppers are the most valuable of the individual cars.
The latest Greenbergs notes one variation, from my set; I have 926 dome
cars (three dome) in 5 digit boxes. Unfortuantely my set box got some water
damage when my storage building leaked back in the '70s (yes, I've had my
set since childhood).
Yes, I'm an OPERATOR, but over the years I have picked up a few
'collection' pieces--but I used to run this set! (I have other, less
desirable, but similar, pieces that I now run instead.)
If this is your only AF, you've got a dandy! Oh, the "080" the dealer
mentioned is the wheel arrangement of your engine, actually 0-8-0 (no
leading wheels, 8 driving wheels, no trailing wheels), nothing to do with
'scale'.
S'incerely,
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 567 From: David Dewey Date: 12/2/1998
Subject: Re: Electronic Whistle Controller
Terry,
We need a better description of the controller, as AC made a few
variations, for instance there is one version with a sliding handle switch
used with the 346 (and others, I presume) there are also some that plug into
the wall, not the transformer outlet, and of course there is the black oval
one that was used only for the 314AW.
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 568 From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx Date: 12/2/1998
Subject: reefers
If anyone has Railroad Model Craftsman for April,
1994, please tell me briefly what it says about the use of overhead ice
bunkers by U.S. roads.
Joe Pereira

email: sigma@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 569 From: Gerbasi Date: 12/2/1998
Subject: 1957 Chevys for your layout
When looking for those Racing Champions Mint Editions as "foreground" models for your layout, don't overlook Matchbox cars. As someone pointed out. the Ford 1956 Pickup is just about perfect as is, and with a set of Railmaster Exports "Ford Tires", can take its place in the foreground. The Matchbox 1957 Chevy Bel Air #31 and 1957 Chevy Convertible #36, are not so well proportioned, and even though the "Premiere Edition" paint jobs are beautiful, they are worth the $4 that Matchbox charges for them. However as a $.67 modeling their "regular" configuration, they are fine as background models. Just use a little "EZ Liftoff" to take off the garish "flame designs" but keep the original paint intact, paint up the interiors and trim, and fill the the hubcaps with a little chrome paint so they are all silver, and they will look fine in the background.
Oh yeah, the Matchbox people included a neat detail in the convertible, sun-visors. Add these to your Racing Champions convertibles with bits of colored ribbon and wrapping paper after you finish opening your Xmas gifts.

Pax,

Tom Gerbasi
Group: S-Trains Message: 570 From: Keith Thompson Date: 12/2/1998
Subject: Proto 64 List is up and running
Greetings all,

I'm happy to let you all know the Proto 64 list is up and running on
OneList. The Proto 64 e-mail list is an electronic mailing list run by
Keith Thompson for the discussion of issues related strictly to Proto 64
standards, the Proto 64 web site, or Proto 64 products. General S scale
and American Flyer� S scale discussions should be directed to this list
below. To have your e-mailed question published on the Proto 64 list,
address it directly to proto64@onelist.com.

OneList is the same folks that host this list. Therefore, you just need
to go to http://www.wolfenet.com/~kthompso/Proto64/bulletin.htm, click
on " Click to subscribe to Proto 64," and enter the same user name and
password you use for the S-Scale list. That's it! -- Keith Thompson in
Seattle
Group: S-Trains Message: 571 From: Bill Porter Date: 12/2/1998
Subject: Ratings
Hi Folks,

I have read a lot about equipment that is rated VG or E- or some other
such thing. Occasionally, there is a reference to standards for this
sort of judging. Where are these standards published?

Great ZOT its,
Bill Porter
Group: S-Trains Message: 572 From: Paul Yorke Date: 12/2/1998
Subject: Re: Ratings
A short description of the classifications / ratings can be found in the
Greenberg's Pocket Guides.
It sells for less than $10 (and I make a tidy 40 cents if you buy it
from my website, I guess I better keep my day job.)
http://www.gate.net/~yorke/booklist2.htm
The latest version had all the S-Helper, American Models, AC Gilbert,
and Lionel.

--
Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl.
American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)
Group: S-Trains Message: 573 From: PortLines@xxx.xxx Date: 12/2/1998
Subject: Re: can motors
In a message dated 12/2/98 4:41:24 AM, you wrote:

<<I recommend the conversion motor made by American Hi-rail (Tom Hodgson).

It's complete with fly-wheel and does not require any additional parts.

He's difficult to find at home, though.



Tom Hodgson

American Hi-rail

>>
For what it's worth, we carry Tom's products (VERY few dealers do
so).......but Alan is correct....Tom is very difficult to contact, and quite
slow to deliver because of his particular job responsibilities. Normally, we
have these can motors in stock, although right now I am awaiting a new supply
from Tom.
Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)
Port Lines Hobby Supply
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Port Lines @ aol.com http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 574 From: Richard Snook Date: 12/2/1998
Subject: Des Plaines Hobbies #88 wheels
hi all

Does anyone know the specs these wheels were made to, that is if they are not (OEM from NWSL) I have heard that they exhibit a different fillet contour to normal rp25 practice, can anyone enlighten...also who is the person to contact at Des Plaines and what is the phone number please....abidi da bidda..thats all folks...:-)) Richard
Group: S-Trains Message: 575 From: Richard Snook Date: 12/2/1998
Subject: proto listserve
Hi again

Those that have also joined up for the PROTO:64 list, are you getting the messages through?? :-)) Richard
Group: S-Trains Message: 576 From: Roger Delthony Date: 12/2/1998
Subject: [Fwd: Ertl 1/64 building sets in stores]
Message-ID: <md5:05F49117E831707736D29E7E7F9E0DCD>
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 17:27:53 -0500
From: Roger Delthony <"delthony@..."@...>
Reply-To: "delthony@..."@...
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; U)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: S-Trains@...
Subject: Ertl 1/64 building sets in stores
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

I was asked to report on what Ertl 1/64 building sets are available in
local stores. Here is what I found at a nearby Farm and Country store
yesterday:

Set 4459 Action Rodeo Set, $19.99 - Stands, fences, steers, bulls,
cowboys

Set 1495 Machine Shop and Garage, $19.99 - Large shed building, (two
car) garage, 2 fuel tanks on legs, 2 ladders, man

Set 4329 Sheep Farm, $20.99 - 3 shed roof sheep buildings, sheep, goats,
fences, hay bales

Set 3426 Farm House Set, $22.99 - ranch house, deck, tree with tree
house, swing set, picnic table, lawn mower, 4 person family, pickup
truck

Set 4767 Hog Confinement Set, $22.99 - Larger and smaller peaked roof
buildings, fence, farrowing pens, 20 hogs, 4 sows with piglets, 20
piglets

Set 1496 Ranch Set, $34.99 - Large barn, steers, fences, windmill,
barnyard accessories

Set 4299 Farm Town, $34.99 - 3 stores, many interior store furnishings -
counters, racks, desks, tables, chairs, forklift, and others

Set 4421 Cow Town Set - 3 buildings, windmill, cows, horses, stagecoach,
fences and others

Set 4304 Dairy Barn Set - Barn, silo, fences, gates, feed bunk, milk
tank truck

Set 4443 County Fair - grandstand, Ferris Wheel, merry-go-round, fence,
small food stands

Set 4252 Mustang Roundup Set, $16.99 - 15 wild horses, 2 horses with
riders, fences.

They also had many Ertl and John Deere 1/64 tractors, farm implements,
and vehicles.

Happy Thanksgiving, Roger
Group: S-Trains Message: 577 From: SGaugeRAB@xxx.xxx Date: 12/2/1998
Subject: SHS Christmas Caboose
I just received the 1998 SHS Christmas Caboose. It is unpacked, and in
operation, bringing up the rear of the consist on my Christmas layout. I'm
using original AF track (see my previous post re: snow scene material). The
Christmas Caboose is negotiating the 19" AF turns without problem, and looks
great. Santa and Mrs. Claus are waving off the back of the caboose. The
detail is excellent, and it's a great addition to my Christmas layout!

Great job SHS, as usual!

Randy Burton
BurtonRA@... (please use this Email address to contact me directly)
Group: S-Trains Message: 578 From: Richard Snook Date: 12/2/1998
Subject: Ertl GP35
Howdy!!

Have been starting to hear of some beast manufactured by Ertl representing a GP35. Have never seen anything on this side of the Pacific of such kind. Is it toy-like, cheap/expensive , a reasonable representation of a La Grange product??? We don't see AF here either unless someone has privately imported. Thanks in advance :-)) Richard
Group: S-Trains Message: 579 From: SGaugeRAB@xxx.xxx Date: 12/2/1998
Subject: Re: Snow Scene Material
I have a layout under our tree every year, and use the normal "fluffy snow
stuff" (for lack of a better term) that you can buy anywhere you get Christmas
decorations. I start with a 4' x 6' sheet of 1/2 inch plywood. I run wires
to some house lights for some buildings first. I then put down a white sheet.
The wires come up through the white sheet at the appropriate places for the
buildings. Next, I put down the white fluffy snow stuff. On top of that,
where the track is to go, I use the clear plastic shipping tape you can buy at
K-Mart or wherever. The tape is slightly wider than the original AF track
that I use, and I presume it would work for any other kind of track. I then
put down the track on top of the tape, and tack it down to the plywood. The
"fluffy snow stuff" keeps the noise down, and the clear plastic tape under the
track keeps the "fluffy snow stuff" from getting into the wheels on the engine
and cars. I add some pine trees with snow on them, and hardwood trees that
have lost their leaves (also with some snow on them), and of course the
buildings that go on top of the house lights. The result is a great winter
scene.

Randy Burton
BurtonRA@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 580 From: Dale Smith Date: 12/2/1998
Subject: Re: Electronic Whistle Controller
I read David Dewey's response and I assume Terry is referring to the controller that was used in 1950 and
utilizes a vacuum tube in a metal case rather than a vibrator to generate a whistle sound that is routed
to a speaker in the locomotive. I also have one of these and can't see any reason why it couldn't be used
with any air chime whistle locomotive with the speaker-capacitor-resistor mounted in the locomotive. The
locomotives with which this controller was used don't seem much different inside than later air chime
locomotives that used a vibrator generator. Only thing might be the value of the resistor and capacitor
or the speaker impedance. My questions are:

1. Are there any reasons why this unit can't be used with any locomotives I suggested above?

2. Does it produce any better sound than the vibrator generators? (I think it probably doesn't judging
from what I heard on the Boys Railroad Club video.)

I haven't tried mine yet, as it needs a bit of rewiring of both the power cord and the track leads and
haven't gotten around to it yet.

Dale Smith

TerryMacE@... wrote:

> From: TerryMacE@...
>
> Greetings Paul,
>
> If you have already answered this one, could you please forward a copy of the
> answer.
>
> I have an AF Electronic Whistle Controller. It appears not to have any AF
> numbering. I have the original instruction sheet (which is reproduced in the
> K-Line Complete Service Manual). Does anyone know which engines this
> controller works with?
>
> Thanks for your help!
>
> Terry MacEwen
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 581 From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx Date: 12/3/1998
Subject: Plasticville Accesoeies
Help, I am planning on using Plasticville telephone poles on my layout, what
would be a goood distance to place them apart and how far from the center of
the track? Thanks all, Tom Davis
Group: S-Trains Message: 582 From: John Conant Date: 12/3/1998
Subject: Winter Scenes
The "snow" discussion reminded me of a trick I stole from a store
display, for a "starry night" backdrop effect. I cut a large strip of
cardboard (for me, about 3ftx10ft) and braced it with wood so it can
stand upright. I bought a string of white miniature lights, with a
"random twinkling" controller. The lights go through holes punched in
the cardboard. The whole is covered with a navy blue sheet. When the
lights are off, you just see the sheet. When on, you see twinkling
stars. You can also hang a Santa Claus or angel in front, if you
like.
P.S. - if your lights have other settings, like "chase", you can get
a really bizarre sky!!! Now if only I could find a controller that
would suddenly spell out "Eat at Joe's", or perhaps "The Future is
in S"!

John Conant

--
Everyone needs to believe in something.
I believe I'll have another cookie!

jconant@... John Conant
Amiga 4000/Ethernet/AmiTCP/CV64 Member Team AMIGA
Group: S-Trains Message: 583 From: Mark Preman Date: 12/3/1998
Subject: Fwd: Re: December List-American Flyer Trains For Sale
I am passing on another opportunity to the group.
Please contact this fellow directly. Happy hunting!
Mark B. Preman

---EBT282@... wrote:
>
> Hello Mark,
>
> I just received your december list email and I buy
and sell trains on Ebay. I
> was wonder if you might be interested in 15
American models undecorated reefer
> kits less trucks and couplers. $75.00 plus
shipping. Not bad for five bucks a
> piece! Let me know if you are interested or if you
know of someone else.
>
> Thanks,
> Jack Bartman
> Walden NY
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 584 From: David Dewey Date: 12/3/1998
Subject: Re: Plasticville Accesoeies
Hmm,
Interesting tech question, I've always just spaced them so they 'look
right', but in real life there must be some standard followed that could be
scaled down. "Looks right" has a few criteria: 1)How many poles do I have?
2) does the train hit it going around the track? 3) Do I knock them over
fixing/maintaining stuff on the layout that needs attention often (OK, on a
permanent layout this would indicate track work needed there!<G>) and of
course, #4) Am I having FUN??
S'incerely,
David Dewey
Watch the Railroad watch and repeat after me, "The future is in S, the
future is in S, the future is in S, the future...."
PS I even use the poles with a few crossarms missing, as branch line
feeders, "jest lak the raal thung"
Group: S-Trains Message: 585 From: Theodore Fabian Date: 12/3/1998
Subject: Re: prices / values / infomation
since a couple of people have written separately and asked about it, I've
got the 17 curved track piece, one crossover, and 4 short straight pieces
(although I don't know if that's the complete track), the transformer, and
a tressel set which I believe was bought separately.. altogether, I think
there are 15 cars, including the engine and tender cars.. no packaging
beyond that.. no instructions...

I did confirm the engine is a 21145.. I checked the receipt the repair
man/dealer gave to me..

several folks have responded with price estimates as well.. most are about
the same range.. David Dewey said he thought it was a '58 Yard King
Special Set number 20460.. and Jay Mellon, Bill Porter, Tom Hutton, Paul
Yorke, David, and others also provide prices..I realize now, since some
mentioned that they thought I was missing a car, that based on the ones I
listed, I only listed 14, so I may not be missing the car after all.. I'll
have to go back and check to be sure.. anyway, I thank you all for help
in identifying this set.. and for the time you folks have taken in helping
me understand what I've got..


now I just have to figure out what to do with the set.. my wife thinks I
should sell.. but, I have mixed feelings about that..


hey, another question, do you folks have recommendations about what type of
set / train is appropriate for a 3.5 year old?? that's what got me into
this whole thing.. my wife wants to buy my son a train, and I said
something like "I have one already somewhere...."



thanks,


Ted





---------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks,
Ted Fabian NASA Lewis Research Center
Cleveland, Ohio 44135

tfabian@...
theodore.fabian@...
http://zeta.lerc.nasa.gov/ted.htm

get my pgp public key at

http://pgpkeys.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x6EEB86CD

Disclaimer: My opinions are My Own, Not NASA's....
---------------------------------------------------------------
Group: S-Trains Message: 586 From: John E. Dalton Date: 12/3/1998
Subject: Re: Ertl GP35
Richard,

There is a 1/8 p. ad. in the Nov./Dec. "S Gaugian", p. 16 for the Ertl set at US$50 (list Price). Scenery Unlimited carries the train. It was offered 2-3 yrs. ago. The loco is battery powered. One of our club members bought it. It comes w/ plastic track (& will run on Flyer track); but is basically an entry level set for youth.

John



Richard Snook wrote:

> From: Richard Snook <richard.snook@...>
>
> Howdy!!
>
> Have been starting to hear of some beast manufactured by Ertl representing a GP35. Have never seen anything on this side of the Pacific of such kind. Is it toy-like, cheap/expensive , a reasonable representation of a La Grange product??? We don't see AF here either unless someone has privately imported. Thanks in advance :-)) Richard
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info - http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm
Group: S-Trains Message: 587 From: Chuck Smith Date: 12/3/1998
Subject: Re: prices / values / infomation
Theodore Fabian wrote:
>
>
> hey, another question, do you folks have recommendations about what type of
> set / train is appropriate for a 3.5 year old?? that's what got me into
> this whole thing.. my wife wants to buy my son a train, and I said
> something like "I have one already somewhere...."
>
> thanks,
>
> Ted
>
Despite our urge to give a youngun an electric train, at that age I
highly recommend the Thomas the Tank Engine and Friends line of wooden
trains and track. My grandson seems to have no problem moving between
enjoying watching my S layout operate and enjoying his Thomas set on the
floor.
--
"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers and the
S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith
Group: S-Trains Message: 588 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 12/3/1998
Subject: ERTL GP35
About 3 years ago ERTL came out with a battery operated "Train Set" for
$49.95. The engine and freight cars were based on the SOO line. The
engine is S scale but not of collector value. The remaining sets still
exist in some Tru-Value hardware stores. Our local store has 2 left
reduced to $30.00. The set has ERTl tractors on a flat car and other
accessories. It has play value for children but at $49.95 it cost much
more than other plastic battery operated play trains running $19.95 at
the time.

Staying on S gauge track, Glenn
Group: S-Trains Message: 589 From: Richard Snook Date: 12/3/1998
Subject: Ertl GP35-more info please
"S"alutation"S"

Thanks for the info re the ERTL product. About the only stuff we see here (correction , that I'VE seen here) are a few items like the collector truck series (trucks from the fifties , I think) and a few odds and ends. I once ( and damm , should've bought it then) saw an exquisite road grader, but Alas AF and Ertl are not repesented here in OZ with any gusto. I'm not actually into AF as such, but the more in "S" the merrier..I'm viewing this Ertl beast as A starting point for a scale model.(with a handful of bits and pieces left over for utilization in other projects possibly) From a Scale modellers' perspective is there any worth at all to this beast, and beastettes (accessories) at all??

Thanks everyone

:-)) Richard
Group: S-Trains Message: 590 From: Keith Thompson Date: 12/3/1998
Subject: Re: Ertl GP35-more info please
Hi Richard,

Bill Adams, a local S scaler, has several of the Ertl GP35s running
around on his layout as dummies behind American Models GP35s. Honestly,
I didn't figure out they were the ERTL models until he pointed it out.
He added American Models handrails and dynamic brakes and painted them
for the PRR. Ted Larson was with me that night and I think he was
pleased with the results too. The big problem with making them dummies
is with the wheels. Those fat ERTL wheels won't go through scale
turnouts. However, you can't beat the price, about $45 US at Farm Fleet
stores during the holiday season.

If I could pry my wife's out of her hads I'd make some more ETB GP35s
since the belt used GP35s without DBs.

Now if I could only see that rilroad depot that ERTL is listing online
as part no. 4031CO. FYI The Farm Country train set is 4031. -- Keith
Thompson in Seattle.



Richard Snook wrote:
>
> From: Richard Snook <richard.snook@...>
>
> "S"alutation"S"
>
> Thanks for the info re the ERTL product. About the only stuff we see here (correction , that I'VE seen here) are a few items like the collector truck series (trucks from the fifties , I think) and a few odds and ends. I once ( and damm , should've bought it then) saw an exquisite road grader, but Alas AF and Ertl are not repesented here in OZ with any gusto. I'm not actually into AF as such, but the more in "S" the merrier..I'm viewing this Ertl beast as A starting point for a scale model.(with a handful of bits and pieces left over for utilization in other projects possibly) From a Scale modellers' perspective is there any worth at all to this beast, and beastettes (accessories) at all??
>
> Thanks everyone
>
> :-)) Richard
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info - http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm
Group: S-Trains Message: 591 From: Ken Zieska Date: 12/3/1998
Subject: Blood on the Floor
The Pines and Prairies S Scale Workshop had its record of accident free
nights shattered tonight by a mishap during the rebuilding of
sub-roadbed for the Minnesota Heartland Railway. The injured party was
bandaged up with really "cool" bandages donated by my 9 year old
daughter and directed to watch two safety videos from the Great Northern
Railway (Circa 1945 and 1952). Silas Kayle, the PPSSW safety director
was not on site so there will be no formal safety investigation.

The good news is that a large section of benchwork was reworked and
progress is being made. The management of the Minnesota Heartland
Railway (Western Division) is greatly appreciative. The MHRy will be
open for inspection during the scheduled layout tour at the 1999 NASG
Convention as well as the during the farewell picnic on Sunday. The
picnic will be an outstanding opportunity for Modern S Sig and S Canada
Sig members to see the latest in rairoading on the CP US Heavyhaul
Division which runs outside while the MHRy runs in the basement. For
more information on the 1999 NASG Convention please visit us at
www.trainweb.com/nasg1999.
Ken Zieska
Group: S-Trains Message: 592 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 12/4/1998
Subject: Trains for a 3.5 year old
Unattended I agree with the recommendation of the wooden trains by Thomas
or Brio (both compatible with the other). And by the way, they're fun to
play with the kids too. Attended, I started with my son at 10 months old*
using the AC Gilbert American Flyer New Black Diamond Express set from the
first year I was born. He's almost five now, and my daughter just turned
3. When the three of us play electric trains we use my Flyer/AM stuff, but
this Christmas they're each going to get a die cast 302AC with a few
"operator-grade" cars (thanks to Mark Preman) as trains to play with when
I'm at work, etc. but Mom is home. Also for when I am around and they want
to learn switching, etc. That way they can enjoy the fun of AF ownership
and operation, but I don't have to worry about broken pilot steps, etc.

* That was his first Christmas. My parents asked if I was going to set up
my trains for him. I didn't even know where they were. My folks said
"somewhere in your house". I found them, they ran, we had fun, now I'm
hooked. So many trains, so little time, but oh that budget my wife came up
with! She's the smart one.

On the valuation of your trains....personally, if you have selling them in
mind that's obviously a good thing to know, but otherwise I recommend
staying away from this hobby with financial gain in mind. Choose what you
like, buy what you can afford, and do so to enjoy them on your own and with
others. If you go down the other path, they soon turn into trophies in a
case, and a collection of stuff that no one will ever know enough, or want
to bother, to get the true value (monetary that is) out of when you're
gone. It takes time and attention to sell them off individually or in
small amounts, whereas the whole lot usually goes to an auctioneer, or
dealer, and sold for half or less their value. All your painstaking
scheming down the tubes.

The fun in 'em, is in running 'em.

Dave
Group: S-Trains Message: 593 From: Paul Yorke Date: 12/4/1998
Subject: First Survey results.
I just started playing with the survey data, here is a small sample.
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/survey/W_T_code.html

We have had some trouble with people with older browsers netscape 2 and
IE 3.0 or older.
I suggest you upgrade the browser, the net is moving fast, got to keep
up.

--
Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl.
American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)
Group: S-Trains Message: 594 From: EMarkA@xxx.xxx Date: 12/4/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 62
Dear List,
The 332 Northern I listed a few days ago and the 312 K5 have both been sold. I
have left the 322 Hudson SIT excellent condition, a 287 Pacific in almost mint
condition, and a 307 Atlantic in almost mint condition. I also have a red New
Haven 650, a red 651 and a red 718 automatic baggage car with actuator pole
all in excellent condition.
Thanks,
Mark
emarka@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 595 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 12/4/1998
Subject: grimy, leaky choo-choo cont'd.
My 302's grimy choo-choo piston and cylinder saga went on, but this time I
think there's a final conclusion. It turns out the wick was blocked with
old smoke fluid residue, particularly at the points where is passes from
the top chamber to the lower chamber. I gently opened the smoke chamber
gaining visibility and access to the blockages, let the wick soak in track
cleaner (the Life Like blue stuff) for a few days, worked the blockages out
with me fingers, rinsed it with distilled water (fewer minerals), blew it
dry with a hair dryer, wetted it with fresh fluid, repacked and reassembled
the smoke unit, and used TFE thread sealant (Trak Auto) on the two bolts
which hold the smoke unit to the chassis (this is a 4 piece multi-cast
302). Voila. No more gunking up of the piston material on the cylinder
walls, nor any more leaks of smoke fluid out the bottom. The problem, as
best I can tell, was that with the wick blocked, the fluid could only
reside in the upper chamber (despite multiple prior applications of smoke
fluid, when I opened up the unit I found the wick material in the lower
chamber was barely moist), ergo it would exit out the small hole toward the
rear of the top chamber. This led to two problems - - some atomization and
therefore ingestion of fluid mist into the choo-choo unit upon the return
stroke (most of the slimy piston build up was on the bottom of the
cylinder), and fluid in the intermediate chamber (between the end of
choo-choo cylinder, and start of smoke chamber). That fluid in turn runs
down the front bolt (the hole and tapping for which in many cases extends
up into the floor of the intermediate chamber) and actually through the
choo-choo casting to the second bolt toward the rear of the engine. With a
freer flowing wick, and the TFE to boot, its running more like the fast,
strong, smooth, smokey, and dry Atlantic it should be.

Where there's smoke, there's Flyer.

Dave
Group: S-Trains Message: 596 From: JOHN EICHMANN Date: 12/4/1998
Subject: Anemic Whistle
Greetings, Fellow S'ers:
I realize that AF whistling billboards don't make a terrific amount of noise, but I've got one that seems more anemic than usual. I took it apart and cleaned out the spider webs from the chambers and did the usual job on the motor. The motor works great, spins like crazy, but its noise is actually louder than the whistle. What have I missed? When I reassembled it, I took great care to seal the gaskets, so it's not leaking air out of the chambers. The fan vanes are intact. When I blow air through the inlet, it makes a nice two-tone sound, but when I power it, the motor noise almost drowns out the pitiful whistle. Anyone got any tips or ideas? Thanks, and Happy Holidays from skiers' heaven (the mountains are a beautiful white today--finally)!

John Eichmann
Rocky Mountain Hi-Railers
Boise, Idaho
Group: S-Trains Message: 597 From: David Dewey Date: 12/4/1998
Subject: Re: Anemic Whistle
John,
Is the commutator rubbing the brush tubes?? That's the usual problem
with these (And now that I've said that, someone will point out the error of
my assumption!<G>)
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 598 From: Bilfrazier@aol.com Date: 12/4/1998
Subject: Re: Ertl GP35
Hi Richard:

The Ertl GP35 can be made to be VERY scale-like. I repainted mine, decalled it
for the Lehigh Valley, added handrails, dynamic brake blister and detail parts
from American Models, Kadee couplers, and wheels from S Helper freight trucks,
so that it will negotiate code 148 tracks and switches. (I also kitbashed it a
bit to look more like a GP38-2, since LV didn't own any GP35's.) It runs and
looks great. The only disadvantage with the S helper wheels is a reduction of
pulling power as the plastic Ertl wheels had a rubber traction tire like Pul-
Mor. Maybe I'll add some weight!
The flatcar in the set is a dead ringer for an American Flyer flat, and with
the addition of Ace bolsters, trucks and Kadees, makes a nice car.
Some of the other set components are usable as well, and you can't beat the
price!

Bill Frazier

In a message dated 12/4/98 4:01:05 AM EST, S-Trains@onelist.com writes:

<<
Message: 10
Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 15:28:28 -0800
From: Keith Thompson <kthompso@...>
Subject: Re: Ertl GP35-more info please

Hi Richard,

Bill Adams, a local S scaler, has several of the Ertl GP35s running
around on his layout as dummies behind American Models GP35s. Honestly,
I didn't figure out they were the ERTL models until he pointed it out.
He added American Models handrails and dynamic brakes and painted them
for the PRR. Ted Larson was with me that night and I think he was
pleased with the results too. The big problem with making them dummies
is with the wheels. Those fat ERTL wheels won't go through scale
turnouts. However, you can't beat the price, about $45 US at Farm Fleet
stores during the holiday season.
>>
Group: S-Trains Message: 599 From: PortLines@xxx.xxx Date: 12/5/1998
Subject: Re: anemic billboard
In a message dated 12/5/98 3:55:46 AM, you wrote:

<<When I blow air through the inlet, it makes a nice two-tone sound, but when
I power it, the motor noise almost drowns out the pitiful whistle. Anyone got
any tips or ideas? >>

Check to see if armature is spinning backwards !....I've had that happen, and
you get little or no sound from it. Just requires a wiring reversal.
Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)
Port Lines Hobby Supply
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Port Lines @ aol.com http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 600 From: Curtis Johnson Date: 12/5/1998
Subject: Re: Trains for a 3.5 year old
Hi everyone:
Just wanted to put my 2 cents worth in on trains for young-uns.
Lincoln Logs has a Frontier Express set for @ $50 that seems
to run as well on the wooden types. It has a loco and 2 cars;
a Buffalo, couple of gun fighters, a safe w/gold bullion, and TNT !!
the track is plastic and includes 'mountain' for under/over
figure 8 option. Log loader and crossing gates. BTW, the TNT
is for top o' mountain to blow up buildings, trains, whatever!
( Didn't the Addams Family use to do this?)
May Friendship and Knowledge Be Yours (and keep u'S' young at heart)
Curt Johnson
Group: S-Trains Message: 601 From: RWJW3@xxx.xxx Date: 12/5/1998
Subject: Anemic Whistle
In a message dated 98-12-05 03:55:49 EST, you write:

<< Anemic Whistle >>
Hello All:
The last time I had one of my whistling billboards apart, I too made sure that
the gaskets were sealed.
What happened was that all I heard was the motor, no more whistle!!!
I reopened the little critter, cleaned off the gasket sealent, reassembled and
lo and behold it started to whistle again!!!
Anyone out there know any of the engineering (whistle chamber, volume of air)
type stuff?
Apparently the more air that leaks through the gaskets, the louder the
whistle!!

Regards
Bob Wheeler
Group: S-Trains Message: 602 From: randall.griggs@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) Date: 12/5/1998
Subject: Need unpainted Dreyfus Hudson kit.
Dear Fellow S-Gaugers,

Does anyone have Ballston Loco Works' phone number? I'm trying to
obtain the American Hi-Rail/Ballston Loco Works' Dreyfus Hudson in
an unpainted kit for my son for Christmas. According to the S Briefs
note in the September/October 1998 S-Gaugian (see top of page 5!),
they're available.

I've tried calling Tom Hodgson at American Hi-Rail, and can never
find him at home. I've left a couple of messages on his answering
machine, but to no avail. I'm hoping someone on the S-Trains list
might know of Ballston Loco Works' phone number, so I can try it from
that direction.

Any help will be greatly appreciated. It's getting LATE, and I hate
to disappoint my son, even though he's 27, by not being able to find
him an unpainted Dreyfus Hudson for Christmas!! :-)

Regards, Randy Griggs

randall.griggs@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 603 From: Ken Zieska Date: 12/5/1998
Subject: Trackwork
The Minnesota Heartland Railway line from to Centralsota has been taken
out and is being rebuilt. It was hand laid code 70 but I am considering
that it should be code 83 to be proto 64. I am looking for suggestions
on track and turnouts.
Ken
Group: S-Trains Message: 604 From: Robin Thompson Date: 12/5/1998
Subject: Re: Proto 64 Trackwork & code 125 rail
Dear Ken,
Code 83 (or a rail height of 0.083") is equal to 5.53" in S Scale.
This is smaller than 100# rail for either A.R.E.A, A.R.A-A ro A.S.C.E.
standards.
If you are modeling the PRR mainline during steam days between NYC and
Philadelphia which laid 8" tall 155# rail, you would use code 125 to be
in line with proto 64.
I bet that the SOO LINE used heavier rail than what code 83 works out
to.
Don Thompson
Group: S-Trains Message: 605 From: BenTrous@xxx.xxx Date: 12/5/1998
Subject: Workman's Comp
Yes, the scene on the Minnesota Heartland Rwy was quite gruesome the other
night. However, the bandaids were really cool including a couple of blood-
shot eye patterns that reflected the pangs of pain experienced by the injured
party!

I'm not sure how the James J. Hill of basement robber barons thinks he can get
away with issuing safety videos to only the injured party as there was another
involved in the incident, who was at the controls of the power equipment.
Where's that workman's comp?!

Meanwhile work progresses slowly but surely in the town of Catsic where the
Milwaukee Road meets the Benn Central at Vomissement de Chat junction.
Turnouts are being crafted and ties readied for the first section of mainline.
Work has been slowed however due nice weather, but looks like it is about th
change.

Ben(n) Trousdale
Group: S-Trains Message: 606 From: PortLines@aol.com Date: 12/6/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 65
In a message dated 12/6/98 3:58:23 AM, you wrote:

<<Does anyone have Ballston Loco Works' phone number?>>

518-383-0963
Mel Nielsen, owner.
Group: S-Trains Message: 607 From: Bilfrazier@xxx.xxx Date: 12/6/1998
Subject: Re: Ballston Loco phone #
Randy:

Mel Nielsen's number is 518 383 0963

Hope this helps
Bill Frazier

In a message dated 98-12-06 03:58:21 EST, you write:

<< Date: Sat, 05 Dec 98 14:35:00 -0500
From: randall.griggs@... (RANDALL GRIGGS)
Subject: Need unpainted Dreyfus Hudson kit.


Dear Fellow S-Gaugers,

Does anyone have Ballston Loco Works' phone number? I'm trying to
obtain the American Hi-Rail/Ballston Loco Works' Dreyfus Hudson in
an unpainted kit for my son for Christmas. According to the S Briefs
note in the September/October 1998 S-Gaugian (see top of page 5!),
they're available.

I've tried calling Tom Hodgson at American Hi-Rail, and can never
find him at home. I've left a couple of messages on his answering
machine, but to no avail. I'm hoping someone on the S-Trains list
might know of Ballston Loco Works' phone number, so I can try it from
that direction.

Any help will be greatly appreciated. It's getting LATE, and I hate
to disappoint my son, even though he's 27, by not being able to find
him an unpainted Dreyfus Hudson for Christmas!! :-)

Regards, Randy Griggs

randall.griggs@...
>>
Group: S-Trains Message: 608 From: Gerbasi Date: 12/6/1998
Subject: coal loads for hoppers
I just picked up a American Models coal load for their 4 bay hopper at a train meet in Niagara Falls. It is really sharp.

When I got home with it, I noticed it was just the right size to fit in an American Flyer 3 bay hopper.

I was particularly displeased with the coal load in the B&LE hopper offered this year by L, and I found it was really easy to remove the ugly factory-provided load. Just take a long narrow piece of wood or a ball point pen refill and put it through the hole in the rivet holding the truck and push. The factory load will pop right out and the new load will slip right in and there will be no marks on the paint job.

You can put the factory load in the original box for your heirs to reinsert before they sell off your trains after you die (probably from a heart attack when the L people put out a quality product made from a new mold)

The fun in them is in running them,

Tom Gerbasi
Group: S-Trains Message: 609 From: David Dewey Date: 12/6/1998
Subject: Re: coal loads for hoppers
Hmm, Haven't seen the new cars, did big L change the coal mold (or maybe it's just wearing out?)? Neat to know we can have loads that actually look different!
Hmm, devious idea--hopper car w/ coal load & smoke unit to simulate a troublesome load!! <RBG> There's even a coal scented smoke fluid available!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 610 From: Ken Zieska Date: 12/6/1998
Subject: Clinic for 1999
We would like to offer a clinic on the history of the cars and engines
that A.C.Gilbert offered. Is there someone in s mail land that has the
information that would like to conduct this clinic?
Ken Zieska
Group: S-Trains Message: 611 From: Richard Snook Date: 12/6/1998
Subject: Ertl GP35 Thanks
Thanks to everyone who enlightened me to this little Gem

Are there any other Treasures out there ??? :-)) Richard
Group: S-Trains Message: 612 From: Mark Preman Date: 12/7/1998
Subject: Train Sets for Kids
I started this several years ago and it has been
incredibly successful. I make up sets ready to go
with transformer and an oval of track out of my
inventory. It is usually a cheap Atlantic with three
common cars (maybe a step missing). The sets are
tested and ready to go under the tree and the prices
are in the $60 to $75 range. Based on the prices of
toys today, this is a bargain. The sets are vintage
Gilbert but are common enough that if one gets
broken, it is easily replaced. I have also found that
little fingers can easily put "S" trucks back on the
track with little problem. Since I started this, I
have been selling about 30 sets per year (all at
Christmas). I have already been through 12 sets this
season and I am now out of common stuff. Time to
start scrounging. Happy holidays! Mark B. Preman
Group: S-Trains Message: 613 From: mcwb@xxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) Date: 12/7/1998
Subject: AF Parts for Restoration Work
Dear Fellow Subscribers,
I am looking for the base
to the AF #612 Freight and Passenger Station and the base to the#594
Animated Track Gang(must have mechanism). Please e-mail me at
mcwb@... with a description and price if you have either of these
items for sale. Thanks. Bobby T. Bryan, Jr.
Group: S-Trains Message: 614 From: Steinkirchner, Alan Date: 12/7/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 66, 65 & Ballston phone number
I've tried calling the phone number listed for Ballston, and was only able
to get his fax machine on that line. I had to communicate with Mel via fax.
I did ask about the Dreyfuss Hudson kit. He responded that he only carries
the decorated kit for $190.00.
>
<<Does anyone have Ballston Loco Works' phone number?>>

518-383-0963
Mel Nielsen, owner.

> Does anyone have Ballston Loco Works' phone number? I'm trying to
> obtain the American Hi-Rail/Ballston Loco Works' Dreyfus Hudson in
> an unpainted kit for my son for Christmas.
Group: S-Trains Message: 615 From: FANN, ROBERT Date: 12/7/1998
Subject: Call for Modules
Group,

The Pines and Prairies S Scale Workshop, host club for the 1999 NASG
National Convention (http://www.trainweb.com/nasg1999/), has revised the
plans for the trading/exhibit floor and now has room -- and a need -- for a
few portable/modular layouts in that area. We are negotiating with the
Kelly Inn for even more space, but as of today we are not sure exactly how
much we can get.

What we need, for now, is a show of hands -- who out there would be
interested in bringing a modular, or other portable, layout? How much floor
space does your layout occupy? Can it be set up in linear fashion,
point-to-point (possibly against a wall), or does it need to close the loop
to be functional? Is it free-standing or does it need supporting tables?
Is it scale, hirail or Flyer? (In the interest of balance...). Etcetera.

Please contact me through this list or aside at fannr@... or
fann@....

Thanks,

Bob Fann
Group: S-Trains Message: 616 From: kelvin white Date: 12/7/1998
Subject: tie spacing and size for turnouts.
Hi all

I'm sending this to the S-trains and Proto64 lists, it will be
interesting to see if the replies are different.

My question is for code 100 rail which equates to 110 pound rail. What
would the prototype tie size (including average projection beyond the
rail),and tie spacings (centres) be, for a standard gauge #8 turnout.
--
Kelvin White
Oxford England
Group: S-Trains Message: 617 From: Richard Snook Date: 12/7/1998
Subject: Christmas Present for Proto:64 Modellers
Ho Ho Ho

It comes to he who waits:

I have but 30 minutes ago got off the phone to Randy Wilson. I particularly wanted to get the absolute low-down on where everything sat re: the PROTO:64 situation. I had been getting snippets of info from this source and that building up a picture, but many details were missing or obscured. When in doubt go to the source.

I accept this (recent info to hand) on face value, and appreciate that he (Randy) is quite busy.

Where is PROTO:64

Well actually its a lot closer to a ratified reality than I thought an hour ago.

Apparently a proposal utilising upgraded specs (from those originally included with other Proto recommendations P:48,P:24,P:87 some time ago, with the P:64 and P:87 being left for another day!!(for various reasons)) WILL be put before the Governing bodies early in the new year, with the expectation that subsequent to a vote, these will be ratified and accepted as they stand. The experience with the P:48 specs has proven the rationale and workability of the thinking and engineering of those concerned. Basically this is not new ground , but a variation on a theme as applies to 1/64 scale modelling.

An important consideration regarding wheels for those of us about to embark down this road, and for those contemplating it, is the flange width should be (emphasis, should be) of the nature of .020 and not .025 as represented by the #88 wheelsets.

This will be the dimension that a manufacturer will probably use (and in all reality a lot of hesitation by pending manufactureers should disipate, once THE STANDARDS are hammered into stone)

THAT IS THE NEWS

:-)) Richard
Group: S-Trains Message: 618 From: Robin Thompson Date: 12/12/1998
Subject: Re: tie spacing and size for turnouts.
Dear Kelvin,
Boy, is this a can of worms. Tie spacing depends on the traffic,
length of rail (39') and the length of the joint bars. It is expressed
on XXXX ties required per mile. The ties can also be different
distances between each other and at the joint bars. On turnouts it is
even worse, with the spacing over the frog different and points
different than the rest of the tiebed.
Don T.
Group: S-Trains Message: 619 From: Arthur Armstrong Date: 12/8/1998
Subject: Re: Christmas Present for Proto:64 Modellers
good news! thanks, Richard
Group: S-Trains Message: 620 From: Keith Thompson Date: 12/8/1998
Subject: Re: [Proto64] Sn3 / S
Hi Allen,

S scale is used to designate models 1/64th the size of real trains that
run on standard gauge, 4'8.5" gauged, track. Sn3 is used to designate S
scale models that run on narrow gauge track. The "n" designates narrow
and the "3" designates the gauge in scale feet. Therefore Sn3 is used to
model real trains that ran on 3' gauge tracks in 1/64th scale. The same
designations mean the same thing in all scales except G. So Nn3, HOn3,
Sn3, and On3 are all used to designate models that operate on 36" gauge
track in each respective scale.

I won't go into the G scale conundrum here but as you get more familiar
with terms of the hobby, you'll hear about G scale and then someone will
tell you what scale they model in G scale. Then it will be okay to be
confused.

Now then you'll probably hear the terms "scale" and "gauge" used
interchangeably. However, scale should be used to refer to the model's
ratio and gauge should be used to refer to the distance between the
rails. For instance someone may use the term S gauge to refer to there
models that run on American Flyer track when the term should be "S
scale."

The reason I bring up the "scale" verses "gauge" comment is that it
affects what we are doing with our Proto 64 movement. You see, there are
several standards for wheels and track gauges within S scale. Until now
these "standards" have been called "scale," "hi-rail," and "tinplate."
Each term is used for the following:

Scale -- 1/64th scale trains that run on track, and that have wheels,
that conform to National Association of S Gauge (NASG) and National
Model Railroad Association (NMRA) standards.

Hi-Rail -- 1/64th scale trains that have either American Flyer wheels or
wheels that conform to National Association of S Gauge (NASG) and
National Model Railroad Association (NMRA) standards that operate on
track capable of running American Flyer trains.

Tinplate -- 1/64th scale trains with American Flyer style wheels that
run on American Flyer-compatible track.

With that hopefully explained, what does the Proto 64 group want to do?
We want to build and operate trains that use wheels and track gauges
scaled exactly 1/64th of the real thing. To achieve this we're, working
with manufacturers to develop tighter standards that are based on the
prototype (real thing) instead of on a standard geared towards the
limitation of machine tools from 30 years ago.

I hope I've answered your question and that I haven't got you more
confused. If you're looking for a good book that describes all of these
terms and many more of the ones you'll encounter, may I suggest "The
ABC's of Model Railroading" published by Kalmbach Books. You can find
out more about it at:
http://db.kalmbach.com/Catalog/Action.Lasso?-database=BookCatalog.fp3&-layout=Details&-response=%2fCatalog%2fDetail.html&-recid=3&-token=12742612&-search.
Good luck -- Keith Thompson



Allen Evans wrote:
>
> From: Allen Evans <alevans@...>
>
> Dear Proto64 - -
>
> I am a Newbie to S Gauge, having recently spent a portion of my life
> savings on a certain Southern Pacific Crescent Limited set from AM
> (Its very nice). I joined the NMRA last month, and last week I sent my
> $17.00 in an joined the NASG . I am committed to going forth with
> building a dinorama of considerable exactitude - from scratch - in S
> scale.
>
> Being a Newbie, my questions are many, but foremost in my thoughts this
> evening is what is this scale called Sn3? Is it for those seeking Proto
> fidelity - or can S gaugers come along as well?
>
> How does Sn3 compare to the "run-of-the-mill" S? Is there something so
> unique that if having committed to such a scale, there would be no
> turning back?
> Specifically, are S and Sn3 non-interchangeable? Why do I not find Sn3
> train sets?
>
> Please help this confused and un-informed newbie - - -
>
> V/R
>
> Warren "Allen" Evans
> Covington, LA
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> The Proto 64 web site is at: http://www.wolfenet.com/~kthompso/Proto64
Group: S-Trains Message: 621 From: Roy Plotnick Date: 12/8/1998
Subject: S-gaugian back issues
I have the following back issues of S-gaugian available for sale or swap:
May 76, Jan 77, March 77, July 84. Lets say $2.00 each or $7.00 for all
plus postage. -Roy
Roy E. Plotnick
Professor
Department of Earth and Environmental Sciences
University of Illinois at Chicago
845 W. Taylor St.
Chicago, IL 60607
plotnick@...
phone: 312-996-2111 fax: 312-413-2279
web page: http://www.uic.edu/depts/geos/plotnick.htm
"The scientific celebrities, forgetting their molluscs and glacial
periods, gossiped about art, while devoting themselves to oysters and ices
with characteristic energy.." -Little Women, Louisa May Alcott
Group: S-Trains Message: 622 From: Wayne Broadhead Date: 12/8/1998
Subject: S Helper products
Just want to let everyone know of the tremendous customer service that S
Helper offers. I called up saturday long distance and ordered some things
from Don. I could not believe the time he took with me to tell me all
about the product, and whats going on.

It was not the usual "well what do ya want, give me your visa, and see ya
later bud" type of treatment as most 1-800 companies do, and even some
hobby shops.

Thank you Don for not only your exceptional products, but your wonderful
customer service.

Wayne Broadhead
Group: S-Trains Message: 623 From: Wayne Broadhead Date: 12/8/1998
Subject: AF
It is great to hear some talk of American Flyer lately. I guess there are
some members of this list who like AF WOW!!!!!! Well keep it up,
because that's whats running under my christmas tree tonight.

Got the bug again, and am spending uncontrollably! How do ya turn it off?
Wayne
Group: S-Trains Message: 624 From: Wayne Broadhead Date: 12/8/1998
Subject: book list
I hope you enjoy this list of the worlds shortest books, its worth a laugh.

25. "My Plan To Find The Real Killers" by O.J. Simpson
> 24. "To All The Men I've Loved Before" by Ellen DeGeneres
> 23. "The Book of Virtues" by Bill Clinton
> 22. The Difference between Reality and Dilbert
> 21. Human Rights Advances in China
> 20. "Things I Wouldn't Do for Money" by Dennis Rodman
> 19. Al Gore: The Wild Years
> 18. Amelia Earhart's Guide to the Pacific Ocean
> 17. America's Most Popular Lawyers
> 16. Career Opportunities for Liberal Arts Majors
> 15. Detroit - A Travel Guide
> 14. Different Ways to Spell "Bob"
> 13. Dr. Kevorkian's Collection of Motivational Speeches
12. Easy UNIX
> 11. Ethiopian Tips on World Dominance
> 10. Everything Men Know About Women
> 9. Everything Women Know About Men
> 8. French Hospitality
> 7. George Foreman's Big Book of Baby Names
> 6. "How to Sustain a Musical Career" by Art Garfunkel
> 5. Mike Tyson's Guide to Dating Etiquette
> 4. One Hundred and One Spotted Owl Recipes by the EPA
> 3. Staple Your Way to Success
> 2. The Amish Phone Directory
>
> And the number one World's Shortest Book:
>
> 1. The Engineer's Guide to Fashion
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 625 From: Richard Snook Date: 12/8/1998
Subject: Modern SIG ??
"S"alutation"S" all

Apologies for this, been sidetracked with other goings on..where are we re: Modern ??did a list serve eventuate?? did a notice or something appear on Paul's (Yorke) site. I've really lost the plot on this one !!!. Looking forward to rebuilding an ERTL GP35 into a MODERN GP35E!! Thanks again for pointing me in the direction of this item.
Gee it would cost me a fortune if Ilived State-side, ready accessability to all this stuff !!!

regards :-)) Richard
Group: S-Trains Message: 626 From: Richard Snook Date: 12/8/1998
Subject: re Wayne Broadhead's How do you turn it off??
Let the wife see the bills !!! say no more :-)) Richard
Group: S-Trains Message: 627 From: David Dewey Date: 12/8/1998
Subject: Re: AF
Wayne,
You have come to the S side, there is no turning back!!!! Don't listen
to Luke, he's too busy flying starfighters to understand!! Trust us, it's a
good thing!
S'incerely,
David Dewey
Watch the Railroad watch and repeat after me, "The future is in S, the
future is in S, the future is in S, the future...."
Group: S-Trains Message: 628 From: Gf3897@aol.com Date: 12/9/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 68
Hello....Happy Holidays to all..........just a quick question, does anyone
know where I can obtain those repro American Flyer rolling stock boxes I
continually see?
Thank You!!!!!!
Group: S-Trains Message: 629 From: Alex Binkley Date: 12/9/1998
Subject: modern proto group
Richard Snook asked about the modern group. I haven't been able to do
much during the last few weeks because my freelance business has been
very busy and also my computer flamed out. however I can see the light at
the tunnel and should get there next week and get back on track. Paul
Yorke started something for us which I haven't even visited yet.
cheers
--
Alex Binkley,
Hammond, Ontario, Canada
Group: S-Trains Message: 630 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 12/9/1998
Subject: the spending
The "let your wife see the bills" advice works. Personally we agreed that
her "luxury" is a membership at the local gym, and mine is an equivalent
amount of money each year on trains. I "entitle" myself to about 2/3's of
it in June, and 1/3 in January to help space it out. The larger of the two
endowments is prior to the October York show (it goes fast), and the
remainder before the April meet. Unlimited spending would be a blast, but
with a budget I've found you research and probably better appreciation each
item, plus determine what's really more important to you and why. Now if
you want to send me a blank check and see what happens that'd be grand, my
wish list is only about 55 items long! I've also managed to supplement
this spending by buying Flyer items that I clean up and put away for my
wife, kids, whomever, to give me later for Christmas, birthday, etc. One
benefit of being "so hard to shop for". Another approach would be separate
checking accounts and outside access to the basement so you can "smuggle"
from your trunk while "taking out the trash".
Group: S-Trains Message: 631 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 12/9/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 68
Yes, there are those of us with a particular interest in Flyer, but on the
other hand it's the variety of scalers, protos, and Flyer fans that make
this list so informative and fun. As for those that get snooty about one
better than the other, I prefer the "don't disdain if it involves a train"
approach.
Group: S-Trains Message: 632 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 12/9/1998
Subject: TURN OFF TRAINS?
An answer to Wayne,

My wife and I agreed that I would only purchase and run original A.C.
Gilbert American Flyer 1946-1965. Now that I have a representation of
everything Gilbert produced I am moving into scale modeling my layout. I
have many buildings to scratchbuild and scenery to model plus how much
scale gravel will it take around Gargraves ties. As I have gotten into
writing for our local club and have just been nominated to be secretary
of the NASG my time is drifting away from my layout. So money and buying
trains is no longer the issue. Time is the issue.

Staying on S Gauge (that's hirail track with almost scale trains), Glenn
Group: S-Trains Message: 633 From: L Montgomery Date: 12/9/1998
Subject: Fiber Pins
Hi again,

Well the Christmas garden (that's what we call holiday layouts in these parts) is progressing and the track is mostly laid and wired. While I will seldom run two trains, I can see the value of using fiber pins (as described in the AF booklet) to prevent my kids from inadvertently running a train into a closed switch. However, I have no idea where to get fiber pins. I'm considering just leaving a gap between the rails or perhaps using a tooth from a comb if I can find one that is stiff/thin enough. Anyone find a good substitute for fiber pins?

TIA
---
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Group: S-Trains Message: 634 From: Chuck Smith Date: 12/9/1998
Subject: Re: Fiber Pins
L Montgomery wrote:
>
> From: "L Montgomery" <lmontgo@...>
>
> Hi again,
>
> Well the Christmas garden (that's what we call holiday layouts in these parts) is progressing and the track is mostly laid and wired. While I will seldom run two trains, I can see the value of using fiber pins (as described in the AF booklet) to prevent my kids from inadvertently running a train into a closed switch. However, I have no idea where to get fiber pins. I'm considering just leaving a gap between the rails or perhaps using a tooth from a comb if I can find one that is stiff/thin en
>
> TIA
> ---
You can use a toothpick shaped a little bit. Use the stronger round
kind. One package is a lifetime supply.
I have bought Kline steel pins but don't know whether they also make
insulating pins.

--
"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers and the
S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith
Group: S-Trains Message: 635 From: kelvin white Date: 12/8/1998
Subject: ERTL GP 35 and a small world!!
In message <366C8048.2158@...>, Glenn Ritter <gartrain@net-
thing.net> writes
>Hi Richard,
>
>How does someone down under have such a good knowledge of the
>California/Oregon rail system?

>. Have you been in touch with Kelvin in England? I didn't
>realize that S gauge is such an international hobby.

>...the
>Central Oregon and Pacific , which I model (or intend to) as it now runs
>over the Siskiyou route in Cal/Oregon utilizes GP38 and GP40's almost
>exclusively and the SP ran the occasional GP35E (rebuild) as part of
>consist.
>
Oh dear isn't life going in circles - yes Glen, I'm in regular touch
with Richard (but don't mention Aligators)!!

CORP is a Railtex line, their livery is light grey over mid red, with
white lettering and lining. My own shortline (Whiteoak Finistere &
Southern) is also part of Railtex - I already have a SW9 in Railtex
(WF&S) livery and a GP30, two GP35s ans a GP9 soon to go into the paint
shops - small world.

Happy Modelling
--
Kelvin White
Oxford England
Group: S-Trains Message: 636 From: David Dewey Date: 12/9/1998
Subject: Re: ERTL GP 35 and a small world!!
OK, it's even smaller, I grew up in Siskiyou County (Dunsmuir to be exact)
Used to explore those back woods areas, lots of history there! Haven't been
back except for once when we were running the Dunsmuir Daylight, we wyed the
train on the CORP tracks at Black Butte. Hmm, so I guess you *could* say I
rode a passenger train (AMTRAK charter, even!) on CORP! I even to a photo to
prove it!! (The significance of the event wasn't lost on me!)
Back to smaller trains....
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 637 From: Paul Yorke Date: 12/9/1998
Subject: Modern Prototypical Scale Modeling
Anyone interested in 'Modern Prototypical Scale Modeling' should visit
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/mpsm/MPSM_main.htm
Any one that wants to get involved in building up that website, or any
site, let me know.

Now I need to go back to getting my Christmas lights up and working.

--
Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl.
American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)
Group: S-Trains Message: 638 From: Richard Snook Date: 12/9/1998
Subject: re small world
Sorry, couldn't resist

I proposed a new Special Interest Group.

The International Society of Modern Proto Railtex Modellers....

we could be our own Regional presidents etc....sorry too much egg-nog (it started early this year!!)

:-)) Richard
Group: S-Trains Message: 639 From: Robin Thompson Date: 12/9/1998
Subject: Re: latest shipment
Our latest container came in early this week and yesterday afternoon
customs released our cargo. Today I rented a truck and my partner Mike
and myself picked the following extended vision cabooses and track at
our shippers warehouse. These items are now all in stock.

$69.95 #00218 Burlington Northern #1
$69.95 #00219 Burlington Northern$ #2
$69.95 #00224 Chessie #1
$69.95 #00230 D&RGW #1
$69.95 #00231 D&RGW #2
$69.95 #00236 Missourl Pacific #1
$69.95 #00237 Missourl Pacific #2
$69.95 #00240 Santa Fe #
$69.95 #00241 Santa Fe #2
$69.95 #00242 Seaboard #1
$69.95 #00243 Seaboard #2
$36.95 #00257 15" Straight Track. 6/box
$4.95 #00253 Connectors, 12/pkg
$2.95 #00254 Connector, insulated, weathered, 12/pkg
$2.95 #00395 Connector, insulated, yellow, 12/pkg
$7.95 #00255 Connector, feeder wired, 12/pkg
$4.95 #00393 Connector, AF track compatible, 12/pkg

Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.
Group: S-Trains Message: 640 From: NYC17819@aol.com Date: 12/9/1998
Subject: AF Catalogue
GreetingS all,

Last weekend I bought a reproduction AF catalog that is marked, "Reprinted by
A. C. Springman - 1959." I can't find any indication of the year of the
original catalog, but I think it was pre-WW I as everything is clockwork!
Does anyone have any idea what year the original represented?

The front of the catalog has a young man (probably about 7 years old) in a
white sailor suit looking surprised and excited at a steam engine (probably a
4-4-0) pulling a tender marked American Flyer and a baggage car or box car
coming out of a tunnel. The cover has "American Flyer" in the top right hand
corner in red letters, "Manufacturing Company" below it in white letters, and
"2219-39 So. Halstead St. CHICAGO" in datk blue. The train has just passed a
double semaphore with two horizontal blades, a mostly white one on top, and a
mostly red one below it. On the bottom right, beneath the train, is the
wording, "Miniature Railroad" in red letters.

The American Flyer sets include No. 0, 1,2, 3, 5, 13 - 20, 26, 102, 103, 105,
5 steam locomotives (all clockwork), 4 freight cars and 5 passenger cars.
Track included full, half, and apparently quarter straight and curved pieces,
45 and 90 degree crossings, a turn table, left and right hand turnouts, and a
left hand crossover!

The inside of the back cover has a general description of Hummer trains, and
more detailed descriptions of sets numbered 50, 52, 55, and 58. The back
cover describes "Three New Winners," that are animated figures riding bicycles
7 inches high suspended with a weight from a taught string.

(I know, I know. Technically, this isn't S gauge but it IS American Flyer and
it IS 2 rail!)

Anybody have an original and / or know what year this catalog represents?

Thanks.

Chris Harding
Group: S-Trains Message: 641 From: TerryMacE@aol.com Date: 12/9/1998
Subject: Questions
Greetings:

Thanks for this service, it is really a super help. I have two questions:

1. Does anyone know where I might find a copy of Greenberg's AF Factory
Manual?

2. Has anyone had any experience with software for layout design.....any
package that stands out as the best?

Thanks,

Terry MacEwen
Group: S-Trains Message: 642 From: Wayne Broadhead Date: 12/9/1998
Subject: Branford Diner
Can anyone tell me what a painted Branford Diner is worth in E condition,
and who might have one.

Thanks, Wayne
Group: S-Trains Message: 643 From: Richard Snook Date: 12/9/1998
Subject: Spare parts
Ho Ho
Ho

What is a good source for parts like AM handrails , truck sideframes..DON (SHS) says we can get parts for all his locos direct from them(SHS) correct Don ?? but what of AM and others ?

ta very much :-)) Richard
Group: S-Trains Message: 644 From: Wayne Broadhead Date: 12/9/1998
Subject: e unit problem
I put a 290 on the track tonight, put the power to it and it runs in
forward gear just fine. Then I stop it to cycle into reverse, and I can
hear the reverse unit trying to cyle, but when I put power to it again it
goes ONLY FORWARD!!! What do I need to do to it?

My directions seem to be, forward-neutral-forward-neutral-forward.
Group: S-Trains Message: 645 From: Paul Yorke Date: 12/10/1998
Subject: Re: Questions
>1) Greenberg's AF Factory Manual?
This title is out of print. You may find it is a hobby shop somewhere. I
suggest Barker's
book 'Greenberg's American Flyer S Gauge Operating & Repair'
http://members.wbs.net/homepages/p/a/u/paulyorke/store2a.htm

>2) Track design software
I suggest you get or purchase some CAD software like...
"IntelliCAD� 98 by Visio is the smart, new choice for architects,
engineers, designers ? virtually any professional who creates or uses
CAD drawings. "
for 12.99 you can't go wrong.
http://www.egghead.com/store/ent/eggs_prod.browse?prod_id=0000040730&sesid=^bpi!S1708805^cen!Y^

If you learn a CAD program, you can draw anything, and you can put it on
your resume.

PS. for $13 bucks I might buy that myself.

--
Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl.
American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)
Group: S-Trains Message: 646 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 12/7/1998
Subject: hobble bobble Franklin
Although a poor piece for scalers, the 21088 and matching cars is a
colorful and fun to run set from AF. Not to mention one of a limited
number of wood-burners for some reason. However, the engine can sometime
have more power/speed than its short wheel base and weight can tolerate
(even on well-secured level track). They also can smoke sporadically (uses
the tie bar for electrical connection), and forget hearing much choo-choo
(the HO unit was used). Here are a few things I found help to the point
where this type of engine will smoke pretty well and can be run
full-throttle without derailment even through compound switches and
standard Flyer radius curves. Run a 5th wire from the smoke unit to the
rev unit - - attach the wire at the front where the short lead attaches to
the chassis. Use fine, flexible, internal lead wire available from
dealers. Loosely wrap it around the other leads from the tender. You
barely notice it. Add some weight to the cow catcher. I used washers of
decreasing size in a stack held in by aluminized duct tape cut exactly to
the geometry of the 'V' shaped cow-catcher base and then folded up the back
to enclose bottom and back of the catcher and contain the washers. Other
materials for weight could be used, but I wanted something non-toxic and
free of choking risk if it were to somehow come loose (wee ones in the
house). Also add a conical pilot spring. Gently wind it to onto the pilot
rivet's post with the large end of the cone up and the small end down
pressing on the pilot wheel chassis. That eliminates the need to remove
the rivet and add a washer if you were to put the spring in with the large
opening against the pilot. I found the engine to be just a fast as ever,
but much more stable. Now wait three weeks 'til "Santa" leaves the set
under the tree. At least that's what I have to do. Yes, this Franklin set
is supposed to be a surprise, it just turns out I got to "inspect" it
first.

PS Does anyone know of a wood load for these tenders? I plan to make a
removable one with chopped twigs and Elmers, but was wondering if there's a
ready-made version. Thanks.
Group: S-Trains Message: 647 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 12/10/1998
Subject: misc
Kline makes white plastic insulating pins. I think they come 12 to a pack.
They work fine, but toothpicks probably do too.

Parts sources that I like include Leventons, Triple-S, Port Lines,
RFGiardinia, Fred Jester and Joe's. Jester doesn't do mail order, but at
local shows (Baltimore area and York) has a good selection. Let me know if
you want phone numbers or any more info. Most all of these advertise in
S-Gaugian magazine, and some in Classic Toy Trains.

Reverse unit woes - - sounds like you need to take a closer look, clean the
drum, and check to be sure each finger makes proper contact.
Group: S-Trains Message: 648 From: Haenn, Joe Date: 12/10/1998
Subject: Re: Fiber Track Pins
L. Montgomery wrote:
Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 07:07:15 -0700
From: "L Montgomery" <lmontgo@...>
Subject: Fiber Pins

>Hi again,
>Well the Christmas garden (that's what we call holiday layouts in these
parts) is progressing and the track is >mostly laid and wired. While I
will seldom run two trains, I can see the value of using fiber pins (as
described in >the AF booklet) to prevent my kids from inadvertently
running a train into a closed switch. However, I have no >idea where to
get fiber pins. I'm considering just leaving a gap between the rails or
perhaps using a tooth from >a comb if I can find one that is stiff/thin
enough. Anyon e find a good substitute for fiber pins?
>TIA
---

There is now a replacement for the fiber pins. They are nylon plastic,
making for a very good insulator that does not break nearly as easily as
the fiber pins. The part number is 692-2 Nylon Insulating Track Pin.
The retail cost is 35 cents each, but you can purchase quantities at
wholesale prices: 25 for $5.00 (20 cents each) or 100 for $12.50 (12.5
cents each). Add $2 handling and shipping if this is the only part you
need.

Joe

Joe's Train Repair 404 Shetland Road
Rougemont, North Carolina 27572-9338
Order Fax: 919/471-2613
joes-train-repair@...
Master Card Honored Visa
################################
Specializing in S-Gauge Trains & Parts
American Flyer Parts Dealer
American Models S-Helper Service
Group: S-Trains Message: 649 From: Roy Plotnick Date: 12/10/1998
Subject: Re: Spare parts
You can contact AM directly though their webpage at www.americanmodels.com.
Spare parts
are available and Ron is great to work with on this. -Roy
Roy E. Plotnick
Professor
Department of Earth and Environmental Sciences
University of Illinois at Chicago
845 W. Taylor St.
Chicago, IL 60607
plotnick@...
phone: 312-996-2111 fax: 312-413-2279
web page: http://www.uic.edu/depts/geos/plotnick.htm
"The scientific celebrities, forgetting their molluscs and glacial
periods, gossiped about art, while devoting themselves to oysters and ices
with characteristic energy.." -Little Women, Louisa May Alcott
Group: S-Trains Message: 650 From: Mark Preman Date: 12/10/1998
Subject: Another Opportunity
> From: Mark Preman <amerflyer@...>
> Subject: Another Deal for the Group
> To: S-Trains@...
>
>
> Here is another "opportunity" for you guys. Please
> contact Jack directly. Mark B. Preman
>
>
> ---EBT282@... wrote:
> >
> All I got left is a
> > 3x12 foot NASG compatible code 100 switching modual
> with back drop. It even
> > has its own seperate control panel. Most switches
> are powered by Tortoise. I'd
> > like $250 for it.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Jack
> >
>
>
_________________________________________________________
> DO YOU YAHOO!?
> Get your free @... address at
http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 651 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 12/10/1998
Subject: hobble bobble Franklin
Although a poor piece for scalers, the 21088 and matching cars is a
colorful and fun to run set from AF. Not to mention one of a limited
number of wood-burners for some reason. However, the engine can sometime
have more power/speed than its short wheel base and weight can tolerate
(even on well-secured level track). They also can smoke sporadically (uses
the tie bar for electrical connection), and forget hearing much choo-choo
(the HO unit was used). Here are a few things I found help to the point
where this type of engine will smoke pretty well and can be run
full-throttle without derailment even through compound switches and
standard Flyer radius curves. Run a 5th wire from the smoke unit to the
rev unit - - attach the wire at the front where the short lead attaches to
the chassis. Use fine, flexible, internal lead wire available from
dealers. Loosely wrap it around the other leads from the tender. You
barely notice it. Add some weight to the cow catcher. I used washers of
decreasing size in a stack held in by aluminized duct tape cut exactly to
the geometry of the 'V' shaped cow-catcher base and then folded up the back
to enclose bottom and back of the catcher and contain the washers. Other
materials for weight could be used, but I wanted something non-toxic and
free of choking risk if it were to somehow come loose (wee ones in the
house). Also add a conical pilot spring. Gently wind it to onto the pilot
rivet's post with the large end of the cone up and the small end down
pressing on the pilot wheel chassis. That eliminates the need to remove
the rivet and add a washer if you were to put the spring in with the large
opening against the pilot. I found the engine to be just a fast as ever,
but much more stable. Now wait three weeks 'til "Santa" leaves the set
under the tree. At least that's what I have to do. Yes, this Franklin set
is supposed to be a surprise, it just turns out I got to "inspect" it
first.

PS Does anyone know of a wood load for these tenders? I plan to make a
removable one with chopped twigs and Elmers, but was wondering if there's a
ready-made version. Thanks.
Group: S-Trains Message: 652 From: PortLines@xxx.xxx Date: 12/10/1998
Subject: Re: Repro boxes
In a message dated 12/10/98 5:12:06 AM, you wrote:

<<Hello....Happy Holidays to all..........just a quick question, does anyone

know where I can obtain those repro American Flyer rolling stock boxes I

continually see?

>>

We carry the red & white ones in 3 sizes..........blue and white ones in 2
sizes.
Also, steam engine corrugated boxes; some accessory corrugated boxes; and
repro Set boxes!
Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)
Port Lines Hobby Supply
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Port Lines @ aol.com http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 653 From: PortLines@xxx.xxx Date: 12/10/1998
Subject: Re: AM parts
In a message dated 12/10/98 5:12:06 AM, you wrote:

<<What is a good source for parts like AM handrails , truck sideframes.>>

Any Am Models dealer (including us) can get them for you, or you can order
direct from AM.
Doug
Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)
Port Lines Hobby Supply
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Port Lines @ aol.com http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 654 From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx Date: 12/10/1998
Subject: set DIGEST
SET S-Trains DIGEST
Group: S-Trains Message: 655 From: PortLines@xxx.xxx Date: 12/10/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 69
In a message dated 12/10/98 5:12:06 AM, you wrote:

<<Anyone find a good substitute for fiber pins?

>>

How about repro fiber pins?????
$3.50 per dozen.
Otherwise, you can use toothpicks, for example, as long as the track is
secured.....you just have to make sure you leave a gap so the rails don't
touch. With the original or repro fiber pins, there is a small protrusion
which prohibits the rails from touching.
Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)
Port Lines Hobby Supply
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Port Lines @ aol.com http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 656 From: Hilary Smith Date: 12/11/1998
Subject: Re: tie spacing and size for turnouts.
Kelvin:

I have two sources that may serve if I understand your question correctly. One is a 1913 or so B&O MoW
diagram of turnouts that indicates tie spacing and tie length. A second is the Track Data Handbook (or
similar title) by Simmons-Boardman, which is more modern, that has similar diagrams for A.R.E.A turnouts
and I THINK it has a tie schedule with it but that book is at another location. There are most likely no
copyright concerns about the B&O datasheets but the Track Data handbook stuff would have to be summarized
or you could always get your own copy.

Tell me what you'd like to do off-list.

Hilary Smith
Northern Virginia

kelvin white wrote:

> From: kelvin white <kelvin@...>
>
> Hi all
>
> I'm sending this to the S-trains and Proto64 lists, it will be
> interesting to see if the replies are different.
>
> My question is for code 100 rail which equates to 110 pound rail. What
> would the prototype tie size (including average projection beyond the
> rail),and tie spacings (centres) be, for a standard gauge #8 turnout.
> --
> Kelvin White
> Oxford England
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
> service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
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Group: S-Trains Message: 657 From: gdavis@xxxxxx.xxxxxxxxx.xx Date: 12/11/1998
Subject: AM lightweight coaches
Does anyone have any American models lightweight 80' coaches they'd like to
sell or trade? Roadname not important. Would prefer hirail wheels but
scale is OK.
Thanks
Guy Davis

Thunder Bay FRINGE� Festival FRINGE� Live Theatre

July 23-25, 1999 Thunder Bay, Ontario Canada

For information for Performers and Groups who wish to perform at the
FRINGE�, please email

dawest@...

For information on Volunteering to work for and at the FRINGE�

please email

nnewbold@...

If you would like to experience the excitement of Live theatre, at the
FRINGE� Festival in the audience, and wish information on times, dates,
places, please email

gdavis@...

Phone: (807) 622-3820

Get Hooked on the FRINGE�
Group: S-Trains Message: 658 From: Ted Fabian Date: 12/11/1998
Subject: Season's Greetings
Hi,

With the holiday season approaching, and the holiday athmosphere all around
us, I wanted to take a few minutes and wish you and your family a happy and
healthy Christmas and New Year (or whatever holiday you happen to
celebrate) and to send greetings from myself and my family..


Ted (on behalf of myself, Debbi, Alex, and Farfelle)


--------------------------------------------------

thanks,

Ted Fabian tfabian@...
tfabian@...

http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/1850
http://zeta.lerc.nasa.gov/ted.htm

get my pgp public key at

http://pgpkeys.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x6EEB86CD
Group: S-Trains Message: 659 From: kelvin white Date: 12/10/1998
Subject: Re: Spare parts
In message <01BE245C.003A8960@snoo9433>, Richard Snook
<richard.snook@...> writes
>From: Richard Snook <richard.snook@...>
>
>Ho Ho
>Ho
>
>What is a good source for parts like AM handrails , truck sideframes..DON (SHS)
>says we can get parts for all his locos direct from them(SHS) correct Don ??
>but what of AM and others ?

With the exception of the actual body shell all of the AM detailing
parts are available from Ron @ AM, and often through Don H at Scenery
Unlimited. Don't forget DesPlaines Hobbies and BTS also have detailing
parts.

Regards

kelvin white
Group: S-Trains Message: 660 From: L Montgomery Date: 12/11/1998
Subject: Lighted Cars Blink Too Much
Hi again,

I cleaned up the pickup wheels on the lighted AF cars but my passenger cars still seem to blink more than they should. The track has also been thoroughly cleaned. I'm guessing the place where the axle meets the side frame (I think its called a journal) might be dirty but I don't know what would be the best way to clean it. Also, is there a recommended lubricant for axles?

BTW, the toothpicks seem to be working fine in lieu of fiber pins. It seems like such an obvious answer now. Duh! <8-P

Monty
---
Fight Spam! Join CAUCE! == http://www.cauce.org/
Outlaw Junk Email! Support HR 1748.



-----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==-----
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Group: S-Trains Message: 661 From: Chuck Smith Date: 12/11/1998
Subject: Re: Lighted Cars Blink Too Much
L Montgomery wrote:
>
> From: "L Montgomery" <lmontgo@...>
>
> Hi again,
>
> I cleaned up the pickup wheels on the lighted AF cars but my passenger cars still seem to blink more than they should. The track has also been thoroughly cleaned. I'm guessing the place where the axle meets the side frame (I think its called a journal) might be dirty but I don't know what would be the best way to clean it. Also, is there a recommended lubricant for axles?
>
> BTW, the toothpicks seem to be working fine in lieu of fiber pins. It seems like such an obvious answer now. Duh! <8-P
>
> Monty
> ---
> Fight Spam! Join CAUCE! == http://www.cauce.org/
> Outlaw Junk Email! Support HR 1748.
>
> -----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==-----
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info - http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm
It is very difficult, IMO, to get all the flicker out of AF lights and
I've more or less learned to ignore it. However, when installing lights
in my old (pre illuminated) AM heavyweights I took pains to install
wiper wires on the truck mounting screw to contact the axles of the
wheel sets. By carefully adjusting the wire tension against the axles I
was able to get virtually flicker free lighting. Think about modern S
scale locomotives and notice how they pick up power, always with wipers
on multiple wheels, to insure constant connection. Even AF used wipers
on th tender trucks. The omission of wipers on lighted cars I'm sure
was a concession to the pressures of manufacturing cost for a
non-critical application. Thus, if you want to try for flicker free
lighting I suggest you install truck wipers.

Another option is to run the lights off a large capacitor and have the
track voltage charge the capacitor, or an equivalent circuit. The
electrical experts out there will have to explain how to do this.
--
"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers and the
S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith
Group: S-Trains Message: 662 From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade Date: 12/11/1998
Subject: Christmas Sale
We have listed a few HO, S, and O items ready to ship for Christmas, and

you can save a few bucks also!

Take a look - http://www.btsrr.com/btssale.htm

Happy Holidays!
Bill & Diane



--
=============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================
Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer
Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218
B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com
S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com
Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 663 From: Dennis Back Date: 12/11/1998
Subject: Calling the ELECTRICAL EXPERTS
---Chuck Smith <cesmith@...> wrote:
>
>Thus, if you want to try for flicker free
> lighting I suggest you install truck wipers.
>
> Another option is to run the lights off a large capacitor and have the
> track voltage charge the capacitor, or an equivalent circuit. The
> electrical experts out there will have to explain how to do this.
> --

How 'bout it electrical experts....what's the deal here?

Regards and Happy Holidays,
Dennis Back
Miami, Fl.
Group: S-Trains Message: 664 From: Allen Evans Date: 12/11/1998
Subject: Re: Calling the ELECTRICAL EXPERTS
If its AC powered, just place an electrolitic capacitor of medium size across the hot and cold wires.

But frankly, I would think you could go to auto parts store or Radio Shack and spray clean those journals
and pick-ups and that would be enough.




====================================

Dennis Back wrote:

> From: Dennis Back <backden@...>
>
> ---Chuck Smith <cesmith@...> wrote:
> >
> >Thus, if you want to try for flicker free
> > lighting I suggest you install truck wipers.
> >
> > Another option is to run the lights off a large capacitor and have the
> > track voltage charge the capacitor, or an equivalent circuit. The
> > electrical experts out there will have to explain how to do this.
> > --
>
> How 'bout it electrical experts....what's the deal here?
>
> Regards and Happy Holidays,
> Dennis Back
> Miami, Fl.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
> service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
> http://www.onelist.com/advert.html for more information.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info - http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm
Group: S-Trains Message: 665 From: Allen Evans Date: 12/11/1998
Subject: More on Electrical Lighting. . .
Specifically - a spray can of electrical contact cleaner would do the job.

The capacity would be mounted inside the train car. Bipolar 100uf 30V would be good.



=====================================



Allen Evans wrote:

> If its AC powered, just place an electrolitic capacitor of medium size across the hot and cold wires.
>
> But frankly, I would think you could go to auto parts store or Radio Shack and spray clean those journals
> and pick-ups and that would be enough.
>
> ====================================
>
> Dennis Back wrote:
>
> > From: Dennis Back <backden@...>
> >
> > ---Chuck Smith <cesmith@...> wrote:
> > >
> > >Thus, if you want to try for flicker free
> > > lighting I suggest you install truck wipers.
> > >
> > > Another option is to run the lights off a large capacitor and have the
> > > track voltage charge the capacitor, or an equivalent circuit. The
> > > electrical experts out there will have to explain how to do this.
> > > --
> >
> > How 'bout it electrical experts....what's the deal here?
> >
> > Regards and Happy Holidays,
> > Dennis Back
> > Miami, Fl.
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
> > service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
> > http://www.onelist.com/advert.html for more information.
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info - http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm
Group: S-Trains Message: 666 From: David Dewey Date: 12/11/1998
Subject: Re: Light flickering
This can be a vexing problem. one help is to solder a wire onto the 'ground
truck rivet, and then fasten it to the metal frame, there's usually a
convienient, unused, hole somewhere there. This eliminates one source of
flickering, but the other source is the axle to truck connection, and an
axle wiper is the only solution there, that I'm aware. I would think a
phosphor bronze wire would be better than the AF flat one, less friction,
and should be easy to find in a hobby shop. You could solder it to the truck
rivet, or come up with some other clever, easy to do solution that doesn't
require removing the trucks from the car! I've threatened to do this to some
of my cars, but haven't gotten a round tuit yet.
I dunno how the capacitor would work on an AC circuit, but you could put in
a bridge rectifier, and add a capacitor to the output, the light bulb output
doesn't change much, but it might last longer this way!
Bonus idea: The yellow bulbs in the streamline cars just don't look right,
if you've ever seen these real trains at night! I put in a light blue paper
difuser on my cars, and now they look more like the bluish light that the
tinted windows on real trains give out. (Hey, big L, you listening???--as if
they care)
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 667 From: esquivel Date: 12/12/1998
Subject: Re: Light flickering
hello, i don't know if anybody rode trains out there as a kid, but I did
and the lights flickered all the time. Even the new trains today flicker a
little. I would leave it alone the flickering makes for great effect.
happy railroading, dave

----------
> From: David Dewey <djdewey@...>
> To: S-Trains@onelist.com
> Subject: [S-Trains] Re: Light flickering
> Date: Friday, December 11, 1998 10:07 PM
>
> From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...>
>
> This can be a vexing problem. one help is to solder a wire onto the
'ground
> truck rivet, and then fasten it to the metal frame, there's usually a
> convienient, unused, hole somewhere there. This eliminates one source of
> flickering, but the other source is the axle to truck connection, and an
> axle wiper is the only solution there, that I'm aware. I would think a
> phosphor bronze wire would be better than the AF flat one, less friction,
> and should be easy to find in a hobby shop. You could solder it to the
truck
> rivet, or come up with some other clever, easy to do solution that
doesn't
> require removing the trucks from the car! I've threatened to do this to
some
> of my cars, but haven't gotten a round tuit yet.
> I dunno how the capacitor would work on an AC circuit, but you could put
in
> a bridge rectifier, and add a capacitor to the output, the light bulb
output
> doesn't change much, but it might last longer this way!
> Bonus idea: The yellow bulbs in the streamline cars just don't look
right,
> if you've ever seen these real trains at night! I put in a light blue
paper
> difuser on my cars, and now they look more like the bluish light that the
> tinted windows on real trains give out. (Hey, big L, you listening???--as
if
> they care)
> S'
> David D.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
> service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
> http://www.onelist.com/advert.html for more information.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info -
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm
Group: S-Trains Message: 668 From: EMarkA@xxx.xxx Date: 12/12/1998
Subject: Christmas Sale Hudson
I still have a few items that I could ship out for arrival before Christmas. A
beautiful 322 Hudson SIT in excellent+ condition. A 718 Automated baggage car,
red with track pole. A mint condition 307 Atlantic and two 287 pacifics, one
excellent+ and one very good. I also have three pairs of AF switch tracks in
excellent condition and a good sized box of AF straight, curved, half straight
and curved. please email Emarka@... if interested.
Group: S-Trains Message: 669 From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx Date: 12/12/1998
Subject: wiper wires
If I recall right when I made supplementary pickup connections I would 'wrap'
the axle with several turns of the pickup wire. This allowed constant contact
no matter what. It did not seem to be a problem visually. be it S or HO.

Lars

Gave away his Lionel set
Gave away his AF late 40's Hudson set
Now working his way back into S unless I backslide
and use my old HO stuff (but its so XX$$$@@@!! much like being a
watchmaker...)
Group: S-Trains Message: 670 From: Roger Hinds Date: 12/12/1998
Subject: Lights
Hi Guy"S",

About the lights in passenger cars:
The wrong light bulb will give off a dim light. Similar to using a 25
watt bulb in your house.
Old solder can cause a lot of resistance causeing a dim light. The
solder holding the wire in place should be nice and shiney. If it is
dull you want to change the solder. This Applies to the motor, smoke
unit and everything else also.
The wheels must be real clean of course. If the wiper is clean and has
a reasonable good connection, then that should be all right. Check to
see if dirt got into the center area of the wiper.

Also the dirty track will not help.

Roger
Group: S-Trains Message: 671 From: Curtis Johnson Date: 12/12/1998
Subject: Re: Fiber Pins
High EEEeeeee:
I bought K-Line insulators, they work just fine!! In
both Flyer and Gargraves usage.
Keep U's' young at heart -- Curt Johnson
Group: S-Trains Message: 672 From: James Wysopal Date: 12/13/1998
Subject: loose engine tires
Went looking for a steam engine to run under the Christmas tree but had problems finding one that works. I noticed that most of my steam engines have loose drive tires. They are in a display case in the basement playroom. How can I reglue the tires onto the white insulation so they can be usable again?
Thanks for the help. Jim
Group: S-Trains Message: 673 From: alice beachy Date: 12/12/1998
Subject: Sound for S scale Steam
Last issue of S Gaugian reviewed a new Marx Company tinplate girder
bridge suitable for S scale. There was a question asked here as to how
good they looked. I have one on my Christmas layout and they look
great. But here is even better news. The new Marx is now offering an
optional sound system (bells, whistles and air sounds) for all of their
steam engines. As many of you know Marx tinplate is 3/16 scale on three
rail track, so these units should fit into old Gilbert tenders. Marx
does not say whether the units are available for seperate sale, but I'm
sure if they get enough requests they will sell them.

Wayne Beachy
Atlantic Coast S Gaugers
Group: S-Trains Message: 674 From: Paul Yorke Date: 12/13/1998
Subject: ...take a few seconds...
Reguardless of how you feel about what is going on in Washington,
please take a few seconds to let your Congress persons know your
opinion.

http://www.berkshire.net/~ifas/activist/
(bookmark this site)

--
Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl.
American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)
Group: S-Trains Message: 675 From: Chuck Smith Date: 12/13/1998
Subject: Re: loose engine tires
James Wysopal wrote:
>
> Went looking for a steam engine to run under the Christmas tree but
> had problems finding one that works. I noticed that most of my steam
> engines have loose drive tires. They are in a display case in the
> basement playroom. How can I reglue the tires onto the white
> insulation so they can be usable again?
> Thanks for the help. Jim
I have used epoxy and super glue successfully on different occasions. I
think the right formula of Loctite will also work. Many years ago an AF
factory method for repairs was to drill and insert round toothpicks or
equivalent thru the driver tires into the driver a few spotsm per an
article I read some time back. Super glue is probably the easiest. Use
the gap filling kind because it gives you longer to manipulate before it
sets up. Turn the armature by hand to rotate the driver so you can pry
the tire back on all the way around.
--
"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers and the
S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith
Group: S-Trains Message: 676 From: Allen Evans Date: 12/13/1998
Subject: Last Word on Improving Your Lights
SNC Industries P.O. Box # 10436 Brooksville, Florida 34603, Fax
352-596-1080
I found this company on the web. Sounds like they have perfected the
technology of preventing dim lighting at slow speeds and diminishing the
flickering. They also sell all type of other lighting accessories.
Here's their web page:

http://www.atlantic.net/~snc/k-lights.html


Excerpt from mfg's page:

"WHAT ARE K-LIGHT constant lighting Modules?

K-LIGHT is an electronic module that provides constant brilliance of
light for your passenger or freight cars and caboose. No matter what
speed you are running your train, your lights will not dim or increase
in brilliance like a standard lighted car. At slow speed operation, you
gain realistic lighting. K-LIGHT units will also greatly reduce the
flickering of the car's lights. The module is powered by AC or DC from
the track power. The unit is designed to use a 25 ma bulb. Approximately
5 volts must be applied to the track to maintain constant brilliance. "
Group: S-Trains Message: 677 From: Robert E. Yablonski Date: 12/13/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 71
Do not install an electrolytic capacitor across the ac on your models. The
capacitor will back bias on every reverse cycle of power. Sooner or later a
meltdown will occur. I have had the can shoot right through the ceiling
tile and into the floor of the next story above.

Robert E. Yablonski
VP Engineering
Alligator Technologies

If you want to use a capacitor, you must change the AC into DC using a
rectifier such as a 1N4004. This diode is good for about 1 amp. The
positive end of the diode has a band which must be pointed toward the +
(plus) side of the capacitor. Connect the lights across the capacitor. The
negative side of the capacitor is connected to one side of the AC and the
negative side of the diode is connected to the other side of the AC. Try
capacitors of various values. 100 microfarads to 10000 microfarads, with a
mininimum working voltage of 50 volts.

Let us know how it works.
-----Original Message-----
From: S-Trains@onelist.com <S-Trains@onelist.com>
To: S-Trains@onelist.com <S-Trains@onelist.com>
Date: Saturday, December 12, 1998 1:31 AM
Subject: [S-Trains] Digest Number 71


>
>Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
>service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
>http://www.onelist.com/advert.html for more information.
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info -
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm
>
>
>There are 11 messages in this issue.
>
>Topics in today's digest:
>
> 1. Re: tie spacing and size for turnouts.
> From: Hilary Smith <hilsmth@...>
> 2. AM lightweight coaches
> From: gdavis@...
> 3. Season's Greetings
> From: Ted Fabian <Theodore.Fabian@...>
> 4. Re: Spare parts
> From: kelvin white <kelvin@...>
> 5. Lighted Cars Blink Too Much
> From: "L Montgomery" <lmontgo@...>
> 6. Re: Lighted Cars Blink Too Much
> From: Chuck Smith <cesmith@...>
> 7. Christmas Sale
> From: "B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade" <wadepub@...>
> 8. Calling the ELECTRICAL EXPERTS
> From: Dennis Back <backden@...>
> 9. Re: Calling the ELECTRICAL EXPERTS
> From: Allen Evans <alevans@...>
> 10. More on Electrical Lighting. . .
> From: Allen Evans <alevans@...>
> 11. Re: Light flickering
> From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...>
>
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
____
>___________________________________________________________________________
____
>
>Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 06:15:49 -0500
> From: Hilary Smith <hilsmth@...>
>Subject: Re: tie spacing and size for turnouts.
>
>Kelvin:
>
>I have two sources that may serve if I understand your question correctly.
One is a 1913 or so B&O MoW
>diagram of turnouts that indicates tie spacing and tie length. A second is
the Track Data Handbook (or
>similar title) by Simmons-Boardman, which is more modern, that has similar
diagrams for A.R.E.A turnouts
>and I THINK it has a tie schedule with it but that book is at another
location. There are most likely no
>copyright concerns about the B&O datasheets but the Track Data handbook
stuff would have to be summarized
>or you could always get your own copy.
>
>Tell me what you'd like to do off-list.
>
>Hilary Smith
>Northern Virginia
>
>kelvin white wrote:
>
>> From: kelvin white <kelvin@...>
>>
>> Hi all
>>
>> I'm sending this to the S-trains and Proto64 lists, it will be
>> interesting to see if the replies are different.
>>
>> My question is for code 100 rail which equates to 110 pound rail. What
>> would the prototype tie size (including average projection beyond the
>> rail),and tie spacings (centres) be, for a standard gauge #8 turnout.
>> --
>> Kelvin White
>> Oxford England
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
>> service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
>> http://www.onelist.com/advert.html for more information.
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info -
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm
>
>
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
____
>___________________________________________________________________________
____
>
>Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 09:17:35 -0500
> From: gdavis@...
>Subject: AM lightweight coaches
>
>Does anyone have any American models lightweight 80' coaches they'd like to
>sell or trade? Roadname not important. Would prefer hirail wheels but
>scale is OK.
>Thanks
>Guy Davis
>
>Thunder Bay FRINGE� Festival FRINGE� Live Theatre
>
>July 23-25, 1999 Thunder Bay, Ontario Canada
>
>For information for Performers and Groups who wish to perform at the
>FRINGE�, please email
>
> dawest@...
>
>For information on Volunteering to work for and at the FRINGE�
>
>please email
>
> nnewbold@...
>
>If you would like to experience the excitement of Live theatre, at the
>FRINGE� Festival in the audience, and wish information on times, dates,
>places, please email
>
> gdavis@...
>
>Phone: (807) 622-3820
>
>Get Hooked on the FRINGE�
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
____
>___________________________________________________________________________
____
>
>Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 09:40:46 -0500
> From: Ted Fabian <Theodore.Fabian@...>
>Subject: Season's Greetings
>
>Hi,
>
>With the holiday season approaching, and the holiday athmosphere all around
>us, I wanted to take a few minutes and wish you and your family a happy and
>healthy Christmas and New Year (or whatever holiday you happen to
>celebrate) and to send greetings from myself and my family..
>
>
> Ted (on behalf of myself, Debbi, Alex, and Farfelle)
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------
>
>thanks,
>
> Ted Fabian tfabian@...
> tfabian@...
>
> http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/1850
> http://zeta.lerc.nasa.gov/ted.htm
>
>get my pgp public key at
>
>http://pgpkeys.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x6EEB86CD
>
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
____
>___________________________________________________________________________
____
>
>Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 20:41:00 +0000
> From: kelvin white <kelvin@...>
>Subject: Re: Spare parts
>
>In message <01BE245C.003A8960@snoo9433>, Richard Snook
><richard.snook@...> writes
>>From: Richard Snook <richard.snook@...>
>>
>>Ho Ho
>>Ho
>>
>>What is a good source for parts like AM handrails , truck sideframes..DON
(SHS)
>>says we can get parts for all his locos direct from them(SHS) correct Don
??
>>but what of AM and others ?
>
>With the exception of the actual body shell all of the AM detailing
>parts are available from Ron @ AM, and often through Don H at Scenery
>Unlimited. Don't forget DesPlaines Hobbies and BTS also have detailing
>parts.
>
>Regards
>
>kelvin white
>
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
____
>___________________________________________________________________________
____
>
>Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 12:59:47 -0700
> From: "L Montgomery" <lmontgo@...>
>Subject: Lighted Cars Blink Too Much
>
>Hi again,
>
>I cleaned up the pickup wheels on the lighted AF cars but my passenger cars
still seem to blink more than they should. The track has also been
thoroughly cleaned. I'm guessing the place where the axle meets the side
frame (I think its called a journal) might be dirty but I don't know what
would be the best way to clean it. Also, is there a recommended lubricant
for axles?
>
>BTW, the toothpicks seem to be working fine in lieu of fiber pins. It
seems like such an obvious answer now. Duh! <8-P
>
>Monty
>---
>Fight Spam! Join CAUCE! == http://www.cauce.org/
>Outlaw Junk Email! Support HR 1748.
>
>
>
>-----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==-----
>http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums
>
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
____
>___________________________________________________________________________
____
>
>Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 17:10:02 -0500
> From: Chuck Smith <cesmith@...>
>Subject: Re: Lighted Cars Blink Too Much
>
>L Montgomery wrote:
>>
>> From: "L Montgomery" <lmontgo@...>
>>
>> Hi again,
>>
>> I cleaned up the pickup wheels on the lighted AF cars but my passenger
cars still seem to blink more than they should. The track has also been
thoroughly cleaned. I'm guessing the place where the axle meets the side
frame (I think its called a journal) might be dirty but I don't know what
would be the best way to clean it. Also, is there a recommended lubricant
for axles?
>>
>> BTW, the toothpicks seem to be working fine in lieu of fiber pins. It
seems like such an obvious answer now. Duh! <8-P
>>
>> Monty
>> ---
>> Fight Spam! Join CAUCE! == http://www.cauce.org/
>> Outlaw Junk Email! Support HR 1748.
>>
>> -----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==-----
>> http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
>> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info -
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm
>It is very difficult, IMO, to get all the flicker out of AF lights and
>I've more or less learned to ignore it. However, when installing lights
>in my old (pre illuminated) AM heavyweights I took pains to install
>wiper wires on the truck mounting screw to contact the axles of the
>wheel sets. By carefully adjusting the wire tension against the axles I
>was able to get virtually flicker free lighting. Think about modern S
>scale locomotives and notice how they pick up power, always with wipers
>on multiple wheels, to insure constant connection. Even AF used wipers
>on th tender trucks. The omission of wipers on lighted cars I'm sure
>was a concession to the pressures of manufacturing cost for a
>non-critical application. Thus, if you want to try for flicker free
>lighting I suggest you install truck wipers.
>
>Another option is to run the lights off a large capacitor and have the
>track voltage charge the capacitor, or an equivalent circuit. The
>electrical experts out there will have to explain how to do this.
>--
>"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
>than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
>
>Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers and the
>S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith
>
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
____
>___________________________________________________________________________
____
>
>Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 17:06:59 -0500
> From: "B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade" <wadepub@...>
>Subject: Christmas Sale
>
>We have listed a few HO, S, and O items ready to ship for Christmas, and
>
>you can save a few bucks also!
>
>Take a look - http://www.btsrr.com/btssale.htm
>
>Happy Holidays!
>Bill & Diane
>
>
>
>--
>=============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================
> Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer
>Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218
> B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com
> S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com
> Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com
>
>
>
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
____
>___________________________________________________________________________
____
>
>Message: 8
> Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 06:28:50 +0800 (SGT)
> From: Dennis Back <backden@...>
>Subject: Calling the ELECTRICAL EXPERTS
>
>---Chuck Smith <cesmith@...> wrote:
>>
>>Thus, if you want to try for flicker free
>> lighting I suggest you install truck wipers.
>>
>> Another option is to run the lights off a large capacitor and have the
>> track voltage charge the capacitor, or an equivalent circuit. The
>> electrical experts out there will have to explain how to do this.
>> --
>
>How 'bout it electrical experts....what's the deal here?
>
>Regards and Happy Holidays,
>Dennis Back
>Miami, Fl.
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
____
>___________________________________________________________________________
____
>
>Message: 9
> Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 21:09:36 -0600
> From: Allen Evans <alevans@...>
>Subject: Re: Calling the ELECTRICAL EXPERTS
>
>If its AC powered, just place an electrolitic capacitor of medium size
across the hot and cold wires.
>
>But frankly, I would think you could go to auto parts store or Radio Shack
and spray clean those journals
>and pick-ups and that would be enough.
>
>
>
>
>====================================
>
>Dennis Back wrote:
>
>> From: Dennis Back <backden@...>
>>
>> ---Chuck Smith <cesmith@...> wrote:
>> >
>> >Thus, if you want to try for flicker free
>> > lighting I suggest you install truck wipers.
>> >
>> > Another option is to run the lights off a large capacitor and have the
>> > track voltage charge the capacitor, or an equivalent circuit. The
>> > electrical experts out there will have to explain how to do this.
>> > --
>>
>> How 'bout it electrical experts....what's the deal here?
>>
>> Regards and Happy Holidays,
>> Dennis Back
>> Miami, Fl.
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
>> service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
>> http://www.onelist.com/advert.html for more information.
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info -
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm
>
>
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
____
>___________________________________________________________________________
____
>
>Message: 10
> Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 21:13:39 -0600
> From: Allen Evans <alevans@...>
>Subject: More on Electrical Lighting. . .
>
>Specifically - a spray can of electrical contact cleaner would do the job.
>
>The capacity would be mounted inside the train car. Bipolar 100uf 30V
would be good.
>
>
>
>=====================================
>
>
>
>Allen Evans wrote:
>
>> If its AC powered, just place an electrolitic capacitor of medium size
across the hot and cold wires.
>>
>> But frankly, I would think you could go to auto parts store or Radio
Shack and spray clean those journals
>> and pick-ups and that would be enough.
>>
>> ====================================
>>
>> Dennis Back wrote:
>>
>> > From: Dennis Back <backden@...>
>> >
>> > ---Chuck Smith <cesmith@...> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >Thus, if you want to try for flicker free
>> > > lighting I suggest you install truck wipers.
>> > >
>> > > Another option is to run the lights off a large capacitor and have
the
>> > > track voltage charge the capacitor, or an equivalent circuit. The
>> > > electrical experts out there will have to explain how to do this.
>> > > --
>> >
>> > How 'bout it electrical experts....what's the deal here?
>> >
>> > Regards and Happy Holidays,
>> > Dennis Back
>> > Miami, Fl.
>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
>> > service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
>> > http://www.onelist.com/advert.html for more information.
>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info -
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm
>
>
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
____
>___________________________________________________________________________
____
>
>Message: 11
> Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 19:07:48 -0800
> From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...>
>Subject: Re: Light flickering
>
>This can be a vexing problem. one help is to solder a wire onto the 'ground
>truck rivet, and then fasten it to the metal frame, there's usually a
>convienient, unused, hole somewhere there. This eliminates one source of
>flickering, but the other source is the axle to truck connection, and an
>axle wiper is the only solution there, that I'm aware. I would think a
>phosphor bronze wire would be better than the AF flat one, less friction,
>and should be easy to find in a hobby shop. You could solder it to the
truck
>rivet, or come up with some other clever, easy to do solution that doesn't
>require removing the trucks from the car! I've threatened to do this to
some
>of my cars, but haven't gotten a round tuit yet.
>I dunno how the capacitor would work on an AC circuit, but you could put in
>a bridge rectifier, and add a capacitor to the output, the light bulb
output
>doesn't change much, but it might last longer this way!
>Bonus idea: The yellow bulbs in the streamline cars just don't look right,
>if you've ever seen these real trains at night! I put in a light blue paper
>difuser on my cars, and now they look more like the bluish light that the
>tinted windows on real trains give out. (Hey, big L, you listening???--as
if
>they care)
>S'
>David D.
>
>
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
____
>___________________________________________________________________________
____
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 678 From: Paul Yorke Date: 12/13/1998
Subject: More S than you need.
New stuff to see...
Atlantic Coast S Gauger pictures sent in by Wayne Beachy
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/atlantic/atlantic.htm

Don Richards wireing diagram to use AC track power to power an EOT (End
Of Train) LED.
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/diagram/led.htm

Chuck Smiths wheel repair tips.
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/repair/tires.htm

The beginings of the Modern Prototype Scale Modellers Sig webpage
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/mpsm/MPSM_main.htm

And a few more links added to..
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/links/links.htm

--
Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl.
American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)
Group: S-Trains Message: 679 From: David Dewey Date: 12/13/1998
Subject: Re: Wheel repairs
Hi all!
Loose driver tires are becoming a standard repair for AF steam locos.
The plastic has finally shrunk enough, and the tires swollen enough that
they no longer function properly.
While they can be repaired 'in situ', it is usually much better, more
permanent, and less prone to 'oooops!' to remove the chassis from the boiler
(Don't forget to unscrew the red smokestack first!!! Else you will have one
more part to replace!) and remove the motor, and siderods. You can now
freely spin each axle.
I use a strong non-lubrication contact cleaner, although any plastic
safe degreaser will work, and liberally spray and wash out any dirt, oil
etc. that may be between the tire and the plastic ring. Any glue joint is
only as good as the preparation of the surface!
Now, once that degreaser has all evaporated, you can proceed with your
favorite adhesive. I'm a 'zap a gap' guy myself, but that doesn't mean it's
the only that will work. Have some small pry tools handy, so once the glue
is on the plastic, you can slide the tire into position quickly, and can
spin the axle to check for running true! After I've done all the wheels, I
like to suppress my curiosity, and leave the chassis alone for at least a
half-day. While the instant glues do set quickly, they don't reach maximum
strength immediately! Go run another train, or clean track, or fix another
wheel set!
I've had one of these repairs last five years so far, on the other hand
I've also had some fail already! I dunno what I did differently on them
either! Probably shelf-life of the adhesive. I had one chemical engineer
tell me that the consumer stuff is commercial stuff that has gone beyond
commercial shelf-life standards. I have purchased commercial epoxies for the
piano trade, and I'll admit they seemed to act differently than the
over-the-counter stuff I've used before. (The stuff was a LOT more expensive
too!!)
S'incerely,
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 680 From: Ken Zieska Date: 12/13/1998
Subject: weekend Report
The progress on the Minnesota Heartland Railway continues to progress.
The subroadbed up the Cannon River valley is going well and I believe
the lower line from Marilyn to Twin Cities will be operational by next
weekend. The upper line from Da Range to Asunceon will follow quickly.
Then it is just getting the wiring back in place and we are running.
I received a soundtraxx decoder and I am anxious to install it an have
sound in my diesels but I am keeping all projects on the shelf until the
trains are running again. The weather in Minnesota has been so mild
that I have not been forced to hide in the basement as much as normal.
This is not helping the progress on the railroad but we will be done in
time.
Ken
Group: S-Trains Message: 681 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 12/14/1998
Subject: clean journals
The only thing to read. But with regard to trains, try pulling half the
cotton swab off both ends of a Q-tip, wet one end with paint thinner or
lighter fluid, insert into journal, twist, remove, now finish with the dry
end of the Q-tip.
Group: S-Trains Message: 682 From: AL BABBITT (JOHN EICHMANN) Date: 12/14/1998
Subject: 1/64 Vehicles etc.
Some time ago several questions were raised about stripping paint/chrome off old AF plastic rolling stock and loco shells. One response was to use a fairly strong solution of powdered laundry detergent and water to soak the shells.

I can attest to the fact that this method works excellent! I just finished stripping some three coats of paint from a 650R coach. It took just three days of soaking and occasionally loosening paint with an old toothbrush. Now I am the proud owner of a "very clean" 650R coach.

I took this approach because I knew there was no risk of deterioration of the old plastic that might take place with other methods that use more harmful chemicals and mixtures. A little patience and this works very well!

On another subject . . . I just finished rebuilding two Hotwheels "Dairy Delivery" trucks. If you haven't seen these yet, they really do deserve your attention. They are prototype of a late 1950's or early 1960's Divco milk truck. Mine came painted a pearlessence white with some wild graphics. With a little nail polish remover (acetone) and a lot of rubbing, the graphics came off. I then replaced wheels and tires and re-drilled axle holes to raise the truck back up to normal height. Now waiting for some appropriate decals, and then will have a very nice prototype 50's-60's milk truck. These DO come in other colors, red and yellow at least, and would make excellent vehicles for other purposes as well.

One last thing--Racing Champions has released, under their "WCW Nitro Racers," a very nice 40's Ford panel truck. Only bad things are the wheels, and engine protruding through the hood. They seem to release hot rods first, then the stock models. Keep an eye out for a very needed type of vehicle in our scale. Happy Holidays from Beautiful Idaho!

Al Babbitt
Group: S-Trains Message: 683 From: Kimball, Bob (PB) Date: 12/14/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 70
That sounds like a nice deal if you run a PC. What good ideas do you have
for us Macintosh diehards?

> ----------
> From: S-Trains@onelist.com[SMTP:S-Trains@onelist.com]
> Reply To: S-Trains@onelist.com
> Sent: Friday, December 11, 1998 1:58 AM
> To: S-Trains@onelist.com
> Subject: [S-Trains] Digest Number 70
>
>
>
> >2) Track design software
> I suggest you get or purchase some CAD software like...
> "IntelliCAD. 98 by Visio is the smart, new choice for architects,
> engineers, designers ? virtually any professional who creates or uses
> CAD drawings. "
> for 12.99 you can't go wrong.
> http://www.egghead.com/store/ent/eggs_prod.browse?prod_id=0000040730&sesid
> =^bpi!S1708805^cen!Y^
>
> If you learn a CAD program, you can draw anything, and you can put it on
> your resume.
>
> PS. for $13 bucks I might buy that myself.
>
> --
> Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl.
> American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers
> http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)
>
>
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 684 From: Keith B. Thompson - Sun Date: 12/14/1998
Subject: Re: Welcome to S-Trains@onelist.com
Paul,

I've been having trouble subscribing to the Proto64 list
for quite some time. Today the things i tried seem to work...
except for this message i received below. It looks like i
have been registered a second time to the S-Trains list?
Could you check this and make sure i'm only on the S-Trains
list once? (i've been getting the digest version)

Thanks, and sorry if i inadvertently screwed things up.

kbt

NOTE: I'm the keith.thompson@... (not the other one:)

> From S-Trains-owner@onelist.com Mon Dec 14 17:09:29 1998
> To: keith.thompson@East
> Subject: [S-Trains] Welcome to S-Trains@onelist.com
> From: S-Trains-owner@onelist.com
>
> Hello,
>
> Welcome to the S-Trains list. Please take a moment to review this message.
> This list is intended for folks who share an interest in S-Scale (1/64th) and
> S-Gauge model railroading.
>
> To unsubscribe from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at
> www.onelist.com, and select the User Center link from the menu bar
> on the left. This menu will also let you change your subscription
> between digest and normal mode. If you are a non-web e-mail
> user, (ie Juno) just send me a note and I will take care of you.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Paul Yorke (yorke@...)
> http://www.gate.net/~yorke
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 685 From: Paul Yorke Date: 12/14/1998
Subject: Two Address list problem
The list always verifies your e-mail address to make sure you are a
subscriber, before it allows you to post a message to the list.

Several of the S-Trains subscribers have had trouble because they send
mail on one address and
have there 'reply to' pointing to a second address. If this issue
pertains to you I suggest you
visit the OneList site. If it is your first time logging in visit
http://www.onelist.com/register.cgi?userinfo=
if you are a returning user, (have logged in before) go to
http://www.onelist.com/isregistered.cgi?userinfo
After login, you can go to your User Profile and enter a value in the
first field.
It is labeled 'Email Alias: ' and with the following explaination...
'The alias is an alternate address that you can send email from. It
is automatically set for you during confirmation, and generally
doesn't need to be changed. '

This may allow you to work with more than one address.




--
Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl.
American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)
Group: S-Trains Message: 686 From: PatnDave Date: 12/14/1998
Subject: Tamalco for SALE
I recently e-mailed Tamalco to inquire if they might consider doing code
83 standard gauge flex track in the future. Mr. Peter Smith, co-owner
replied that Tomalco is up for sale and that the negotiations might be
finalized by early next year.
No word on who or what company might be making the purchase but I sure hope
it's someone sympathetic toward S scale and Proto;64!

Dave
Group: S-Trains Message: 687 From: Robin Thompson Date: 12/14/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 70
Dear Bob,
For those who still operate on the superior operating system,
Abracadabra offers a Mac version of their layout planner.

Mac forever (although I bought a Presario for my 13 year old today)
Don Thompson
SHS Inc.
Group: S-Trains Message: 688 From: Robin Thompson Date: 12/14/1998
Subject: Re: Tamalco for SALE
Dear Dave,
B&S was sold this fall to Banta Models. We received an update from
them (as we were B&S dealers) in it they indicated to us that they were
on the verge of purchasing Tomalco also and would have the code 100 flex
track on the market ASAP.
Don Thompson
SHS Inc.

PatnDave wrote:
>
> From: "PatnDave" <patndave@...>
>
> I recently e-mailed Tamalco to inquire if they might consider doing code
> 83 standard gauge flex track in the future. Mr. Peter Smith, co-owner
> replied that Tomalco is up for sale and that the negotiations might be
> finalized by early next year.
> No word on who or what company might be making the purchase but I sure hope
> it's someone sympathetic toward S scale and Proto;64!
>
> Dave
Group: S-Trains Message: 689 From: GPMLG@aol.com Date: 12/14/1998
Subject: stripping paint/chrome
The best thing I've found is brake fluid, it can be used or old and it only
takes 1/2 hour.
Try it , you'll will like it !
Group: S-Trains Message: 690 From: EMarkA@aol.com Date: 12/14/1998
Subject: For Sale Update
Some items have sold. Here's what's left that I'm selling with some prices
reduced.
322 Hudson SIT very excellent condition = $175.00
287 Pacific excellent = $100.00
287 Pacific almost like new = $125.00
718 Automated Baggage in Red with pole = $125.00
290 Locomotive with Hudson tender in good condition = $100.00
3 Pairs of AF switch tracks with controllers excellent condition = $40.00 each
Box of AF track with curves, straight, half curves and half straight various
condition from good to like new includes crossing section and controller
section. = $75 for the box.
If interested email Emarka@...
Thanks,
Mark
Group: S-Trains Message: 691 From: aleisen@xxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) Date: 12/15/1998
Subject: WTB
American Models or S helper shortie NYC Passenger Cars, Anyone have
extras they want to sell.


Thanks AL

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Group: S-Trains Message: 692 From: Mark Preman Date: 12/15/1998
Subject: ANNOUNCEMENT (Trains of Course)
Thanks to your help and enthusiasm, my little hobby will officially be a full fledged (if not full time) business effective January 1, 1999. Along with the new stature comes a new website:
www.americanflyertrains.com

I couldn't have gotten this far without the kind help of our old friend Paul Yorke. I thanked him privately but I want you all to know the kind of guy he is. He single handedly dragged me kicking and screaming into the 21st century. Now I can point and click with the best of them!

I have attached the "press release" that is going out to the train mags. You were there first!

HAPPY HOLIDAYS!
Mark B. Preman



_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 693 From: LEAHY RUTH A Date: 12/15/1998
Subject: Traintracker
Has anyone tried out the Traintracker inventory program they have for PCs?
I have just purchased a Sharp laptop PC & would like to purchase a good
inventory system. This one is supposed to have the greenberg price guide
included with it. Would like to keep a record of my American Flyer stuff.

Thanks for any help you can give me. Have a great holiday!

Mike Leahy
Group: S-Trains Message: 694 From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx Date: 12/15/1998
Subject: Re: Traintracker
In a message dated 12/15/98 6:23:47 PM, Ruth.Leahy@... wrote:

<<Has anyone tried out the Traintracker inventory program they have for PCs?>>

Yes, I have a copy and it works well. It does contain the Greenberg prices,
which fortunately, can be over riden.

RB
Group: S-Trains Message: 695 From: John Foley Date: 12/15/1998
Subject: Volunteer
Hi Folks
A message from the NASG treasurer Bill Moore. Bill is looking for a
Volunteer to help him with the NASG membership database. Someone who can keep
the membership database on their computer and update it from applications
forwarded from Bill. Bill will have the applications and checks for
memberships
new & renewals sent to him, and he will issue the membership cards to members.
then he will sent info to the person who would keep the database. If
interested
please reply to me or Contact.
Bill Moore
220 Swedesboro Rd;
Gibbstown NJ 08027-1504
Phone 609-423-0198

Your Friend
John Foley
Group: S-Trains Message: 696 From: Jeffrey Tangeman Date: 12/15/1998
Subject: L-Flyer engines in Charles Ro ad
Greetings,

Is this Charles Ro ad in Classic toy trains a typo? Brand new L-Flyer
Milwaukee Road and SP engines for 140.00?(ok, 139.95) Are they selling that
poorly or is there another reason. I talked with a Lionel dealer in Maine
this summer and he said that L-Flyer doesn't move because it is overpriced
(even when it is marked down). So what's the scoop? overpriced, quality
problems, apathy? This inquiring mind wants to know.

Jeff Tangeman
Group: S-Trains Message: 697 From: NYC17819@xxx.xxx Date: 12/15/1998
Subject: Tie Spacing
"S" alutation"S"

As was stated previously, tie spacing is somewhat dependent on the amount of
rail traffice on the particular track. It is also dependent on the period in
time when the track was built, and on the specific railroad being modelled.

Many pictures of civil war era track show ties as much as 3 or more feet
apart. Rail, at that time, might be 50 pounds per yard for main lines.
Currently, most main line track has ties spaced on centers of 19 to 20 inches
and rail in the 130 to 140 pound per yard range.

Branch lines often have rail cascaded down from main lines and of lesser
weights, but usually greater than 100 pounds per yard and sometimes up to 140
pounds. Yard tracks occasionally have rail weighing less than 100 pounds but
generally they are also greater than 100 pounds. Industrial sidings may be
considerably lighter with rail as light as 80 pounds and tie spacings of 24
inches or more.

My set of Erie Railroad standards dated May 16, 1929 calls for ties spaced
every 19 3/4" to 20" for main tracks, 22 9/16" for "Running Tracks, Passing
Sidings, Side Tracks used frequently by Road Engines and Main Tracks on
Branches with light traffic." For "Yards, Storage and Commercial Sidings"
they are spaced every 2'-1 3/4" except under rail joints where they have 17"
to 17 1/2" spacings for all classes of track.

The New York Central standards called for ties 7 inches high, 9 inches wide,
and 8'-6 inches long spaced every 19 1/2 inches for mainline track outside of
third rail territory. In third rail territory, (between Croton-Harmon and
Grand Central Terminal) every sixth tie was 9'-9 inches long. The standards
further specify that for main tracks with 39' rails, 3249 ties per mile be
used, but for main tracks with 33' rails, 3200 ties per mile be used. For
tracks "on minor branches and heavy service yard and side tracks" 2979 and
2880 ties per mile should be used for 39' and 33' respectively, and "for light
service yard and side tracks" 2708 and 2560 ties per mile for the 39' and 33'
rail lengths.

For turnouts, the NYC calls for tie spacings of 19 1/2 to 20 inches depending
on the location within the turnout. In crossovers (2 turnouts connecting
parallel tracks, not a crossing) the ties extending across both tracks could
be as close as 17 inches. Turnouts for branch lines, sidings, and yard tracks
generally have the same spacing as main line turnouts because the special tie
plates used in turnouts are the same regardless of the class of track.
Sometimes, the weight of rail will affect the length of a turnout by an amount
generally less than a foot, but the tie spacings remain in the sme range. For
longer turnouts such as number 10's, 15's and longer, the tie spacings will
remain in the same range of 19 1/2 to 20 inches.

Models usually use number 8 and smaller turnouts so the dimensions of longer
turnouts aren't usually needed. (Imagine how long a number 20 crossover would
be in S gauge -- almost 7 feet with 3 inch track centers!) Turnouts before
about 1970 had tie lengths that varied in 6 inch increments. Turnouts after
that time no longer have half foot tie lengths, but vary in even foot
increments. For this reason, the dimensions of modern day turnouts may not be
truly appropriate for "period" pikes.

Probably the single best place to get typical track dimensions is from the
American Railway Engineering and Maintenance Association's drawings. These
were formerly known as the A.R.E.A. standards, and as far as I know, they are
not copyrighted. Bear in mind, however, that these are current standards, not
those of 50 or 100 years ago.

Chris Harding
Group: S-Trains Message: 698 From: David Dewey Date: 12/15/1998
Subject: Re: Tie Spacing
Chris,
Neat posting! Out here in the 'wild west' sidings, and short branches
(like to a lumber mill) are quite often 85lb rail still. There's even some
75 lb in the Portola museum trackage, left over from when it was a car shop.
BTW, the UP Challenger parked on some of that 85 lb stuff!!! Admittedly very
gingerly!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 699 From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx Date: 12/16/1998
Subject: Tie spacing info, realism compromise
Now THATS information, from Chris Harding!!!!!!
Wonderful stuff.
And its a reminder 2 me that all of what we are doing is a compromise and each
of us gotta decide whats best for their layout and BUDGET!!!
again- thanx for a fine post.
L.

PS
Note that 'realistic' artists have always battled that system of compromise
of what and how they can render something vs. what they want to show. In
other words one never can really imitate nature even to , say what, 70% in
their work, even it its life size....
And that leaves us at 1/64 size. Hmmmm.
Group: S-Trains Message: 700 From: BenTrous@xxx.xxx Date: 12/16/1998
Subject: Flickering Lights
I tried many of the mentioned solutions (as of 12/12). I've got the wipers on
the wheels and a wire directly from the king pin up into the Ace conversion AF
cabooses. It still flickered after moderate run time. I then attributed my
problem to brass pick-up wheels and that they tarnish and pick up dirt
easily...

When I cleaned my track with beard razor lubricating oil the flickering
problems disappeared. After cleaning grime and tarnish from recently
purchased old AF track for a X-mas tree set-up track I tried the lubricating
oil (I'm mostly tend towards the scale side). Very easy to over-do as the
drivers of my plastic atlantic slipped quite easily. However, a little
wiping and run time solved that problem. However, the converted AF caboose
flickers like crazy. I've done nothing so far to try to clean those wheels.

Ben Trousdale
Group: S-Trains Message: 701 From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx Date: 12/16/1998
Subject: US Postal Service Equipment
HELP!!! Does anyone know in what year that the US Postal Service change the
color of there vehicles and streeet boxes from O.D.(green) to white for the
vehicles and blue for the street boxes. Thanks for any help. "S", Tom Davis,
Charlotte, N.C.
Group: S-Trains Message: 702 From: RWJW3@xxx.xxx Date: 12/16/1998
Subject: Re: L-Flyer engines in Charles Ro ad
In a message dated 12/16/98 4:34:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, S-
Trains@onelist.com writes:

<< L-Flyer engines in Charles Ro ad >>
That was not a typo as I ordered one for $140 and received it in three days.
The only dissapointment was that there was no horn! "L" said listing it with a
horn was a "mistake" and they would be happy to refund the purchase price!!
Anyway, it runs good, looks good and was cheap. What more could you ask for.

Regards
Bob Wheeler
Group: S-Trains Message: 703 From: Barbara Bogert Date: 12/16/1998
Subject: Re: mark's site
Went directly to your new site and was suitable impressed. irt is nice
to look at, fun to use and definitely not boring. The links are fun and
the graphics great. I am struggling to creat a page for us. struggling
is the key term. did you do this yourself or have it done
professionally? Anyway nice job. Barbara & Jack Bogert PA.
Group: S-Trains Message: 704 From: TerryMacE@xxx.xxx Date: 12/16/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 75
This is a reply to Ruth Leahy regarding TrainTracker. I have had the program
for about a year. Essentially it is an Access database with forms and queries
already done. It has the Greenberg built in with 5 price levels. They are
about to update it for the '99 price guide. It does allow you to have a
comprehensive list of items and the value of your collection for insurance
purposes as well as a wish list Please e-mail me if you have any other
questions.
Group: S-Trains Message: 705 From: JHAUGH12 Date: 12/16/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 75
S-Trains@onelist.com wrote:
>
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info - http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm
>
> There are 8 messages in this issue.
>
> Topics in today's digest:
>
> 1. WTB
> From: aleisen@... (ALLAN V EISENHAUR)
> 2. ANNOUNCEMENT (Trains of Course)
> From: Mark Preman <amerflyer@...>
> 3. Traintracker
> From: LEAHY RUTH A <Ruth.Leahy@...>
> 4. Re: Traintracker
> From: RBubeck327@...
> 5. Volunteer
> From: John Foley <foley164@...>
> 6. L-Flyer engines in Charles Ro ad
> From: Jeffrey Tangeman <jt12313@...>
> 7. Tie Spacing
> From: NYC17819@...
> 8. Re: Tie Spacing
> From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...>
>
> _______________________________________________________________________________
> _______________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:41:24 EST
> From: aleisen@... (ALLAN V EISENHAUR)
> Subject: WTB
>
> American Models or S helper shortie NYC Passenger Cars, Anyone have
> extras they want to sell.
>
> Thanks AL
>
> ___________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
> or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>
> _______________________________________________________________________________
> _______________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 08:32:26 -0800 (PST)
> From: Mark Preman <amerflyer@...>
> Subject: ANNOUNCEMENT (Trains of Course)
>
> Thanks to your help and enthusiasm, my little hobby will officially be a full fledged (if not full time) business effective January 1, 1999. Along with the new stature comes a new website:
> www.americanflyertrains.com
>
> I couldn't have gotten this far without the kind help of our old friend Paul Yorke. I thanked him privately but I want you all to know the kind of guy he is. He single handedly dragged me kicking and screaming into the 21st century. Now I can point and click with the best of them!
>
> I have attached the "press release" that is going out to the train mags. You were there first!
>
> HAPPY HOLIDAYS!
> Mark B. Preman
>
> _________________________________________________________
> DO YOU YAHOO!?
> Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> _______________________________________________________________________________
> _______________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 16:14:39 -0700 (MST)
> From: LEAHY RUTH A <Ruth.Leahy@...>
> Subject: Traintracker
>
> Has anyone tried out the Traintracker inventory program they have for PCs?
> I have just purchased a Sharp laptop PC & would like to purchase a good
> inventory system. This one is supposed to have the greenberg price guide
> included with it. Would like to keep a record of my American Flyer stuff.
>
> Thanks for any help you can give me. Have a great holiday!
>
> Mike Leahy
>
> _______________________________________________________________________________
> _______________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 18:28:22 EST
> From: RBubeck327@...
> Subject: Re: Traintracker
>
> In a message dated 12/15/98 6:23:47 PM, Ruth.Leahy@... wrote:
>
> <<Has anyone tried out the Traintracker inventory program they have for PCs?>>
>
> Yes, I have a copy and it works well. It does contain the Greenberg prices,
> which fortunately, can be over riden.
>
> RB
>
> _______________________________________________________________________________
> _______________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 18:24:22 -0800
> From: John Foley <foley164@...>
> Subject: Volunteer
>
> Hi Folks
> A message from the NASG treasurer Bill Moore. Bill is looking for a
> Volunteer to help him with the NASG membership database. Someone who can keep
> the membership database on their computer and update it from applications
> forwarded from Bill. Bill will have the applications and checks for
> memberships
> new & renewals sent to him, and he will issue the membership cards to members.
> then he will sent info to the person who would keep the database. If
> interested
> please reply to me or Contact.
> Bill Moore
> 220 Swedesboro Rd;
> Gibbstown NJ 08027-1504
> Phone 609-423-0198
>
> Your Friend
> John Foley
>
> _______________________________________________________________________________
> _______________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 19:26:21 -0600
> From: Jeffrey Tangeman <jt12313@...>
> Subject: L-Flyer engines in Charles Ro ad
>
> Greetings,
>
> Is this Charles Ro ad in Classic toy trains a typo? Brand new L-Flyer
> Milwaukee Road and SP engines for 140.00?(ok, 139.95) Are they selling that
> poorly or is there another reason. I talked with a Lionel dealer in Maine
> this summer and he said that L-Flyer doesn't move because it is overpriced
> (even when it is marked down). So what's the scoop? overpriced, quality
> problems, apathy? This inquiring mind wants to know.
>
> Jeff Tangeman
>
> _______________________________________________________________________________
> _______________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 22:09:00 EST
> From: NYC17819@...
> Subject: Tie Spacing
>
> "S" alutation"S"
>
> As was stated previously, tie spacing is somewhat dependent on the amount of
> rail traffice on the particular track. It is also dependent on the period in
> time when the track was built, and on the specific railroad being modelled.
>
> Many pictures of civil war era track show ties as much as 3 or more feet
> apart. Rail, at that time, might be 50 pounds per yard for main lines.
> Currently, most main line track has ties spaced on centers of 19 to 20 inches
> and rail in the 130 to 140 pound per yard range.
>
> Branch lines often have rail cascaded down from main lines and of lesser
> weights, but usually greater than 100 pounds per yard and sometimes up to 140
> pounds. Yard tracks occasionally have rail weighing less than 100 pounds but
> generally they are also greater than 100 pounds. Industrial sidings may be
> considerably lighter with rail as light as 80 pounds and tie spacings of 24
> inches or more.
>
> My set of Erie Railroad standards dated May 16, 1929 calls for ties spaced
> every 19 3/4" to 20" for main tracks, 22 9/16" for "Running Tracks, Passing
> Sidings, Side Tracks used frequently by Road Engines and Main Tracks on
> Branches with light traffic." For "Yards, Storage and Commercial Sidings"
> they are spaced every 2'-1 3/4" except under rail joints where they have 17"
> to 17 1/2" spacings for all classes of track.
>
> The New York Central standards called for ties 7 inches high, 9 inches wide,
> and 8'-6 inches long spaced every 19 1/2 inches for mainline track outside of
> third rail territory. In third rail territory, (between Croton-Harmon and
> Grand Central Terminal) every sixth tie was 9'-9 inches long. The standards
> further specify that for main tracks with 39' rails, 3249 ties per mile be
> used, but for main tracks with 33' rails, 3200 ties per mile be used. For
> tracks "on minor branches and heavy service yard and side tracks" 2979 and
> 2880 ties per mile should be used for 39' and 33' respectively, and "for light
> service yard and side tracks" 2708 and 2560 ties per mile for the 39' and 33'
> rail lengths.
>
> For turnouts, the NYC calls for tie spacings of 19 1/2 to 20 inches depending
> on the location within the turnout. In crossovers (2 turnouts connecting
> parallel tracks, not a crossing) the ties extending across both tracks could
> be as close as 17 inches. Turnouts for branch lines, sidings, and yard tracks
> generally have the same spacing as main line turnouts because the special tie
> plates used in turnouts are the same regardless of the class of track.
> Sometimes, the weight of rail will affect the length of a turnout by an amount
> generally less than a foot, but the tie spacings remain in the sme range. For
> longer turnouts such as number 10's, 15's and longer, the tie spacings will
> remain in the same range of 19 1/2 to 20 inches.
>
> Models usually use number 8 and smaller turnouts so the dimensions of longer
> turnouts aren't usually needed. (Imagine how long a number 20 crossover would
> be in S gauge -- almost 7 feet with 3 inch track centers!) Turnouts before
> about 1970 had tie lengths that varied in 6 inch increments. Turnouts after
> that time no longer have half foot tie lengths, but vary in even foot
> increments. For this reason, the dimensions of modern day turnouts may not be
> truly appropriate for "period" pikes.
>
> Probably the single best place to get typical track dimensions is from the
> American Railway Engineering and Maintenance Association's drawings. These
> were formerly known as the A.R.E.A. standards, and as far as I know, they are
> not copyrighted. Bear in mind, however, that these are current standards, not
> those of 50 or 100 years ago.
>
> Chris Harding
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________________________________________
> _______________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 20:27:13 -0800
> From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...>
> Subject: Re: Tie Spacing
>
> Chris,
> Neat posting! Out here in the 'wild west' sidings, and short branches
> (like to a lumber mill) are quite often 85lb rail still. There's even some
> 75 lb in the Portola museum trackage, left over from when it was a car shop.
> BTW, the UP Challenger parked on some of that 85 lb stuff!!! Admittedly very
> gingerly!
> S'
> David D.
>
> _______________________________________________________________________________
> _______________________________________________________________________________
L-Flyer Engine

Yes Charles Ro is selling at that price. I visited their establishment
last week and bought an SP engine for the low price. However, that
applied to engines only. The rest of the rolling stock was not
discounted.

I believe that the only reason to keep L going in S is that they
produce in the US unless I am uniformed. I remember when they moved to
Mexico and the quality went down the ..... What concerns me however is,
if we ever have a trade problem with China (look at the source of your S
helper and AM) us S gaugers will have to once again rely on garage sales
etc for source material and with the advancing age of a lot of us, a lot
more collections will be up for grabs at estate sales. If someone would
produce in the states (Yeah, I know the costs are high and we are not
willing to pay them but we need to start manufacturing something of
quality in the US once again and figure out how to do it at the right
price) (Note: I am a bit of a hypocrite in that AM and Shelper should
keep the good stuff coming in, because its good))

Bottom line is what a way to run a railroad.

Joe Haughney
Group: S-Trains Message: 706 From: Allen Evans Date: 12/16/1998
Subject: 12 ASCII DAYS OF CHRISTMAS
>>>
>>> On the Twelfth Day of Christmas, my true love gave to me:
>>> Twelve Drummers Drumming
>>>
>>> .-} .-} .-}
>>> |_| |_| |_|
>>> (_) (_) __ (_) .---.
>>> | \ .--. | \.' '. | \/ \
>>> |\_|--o ) |\_|--o ; |\_|--o |
>>> |:| '--' |:|'.__.' |:|\ /
>>> |:| |:| |:| `---`
>>> |:|_ |:|_ |:|_
>>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>
>>> .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-.
>>> |M| |E| |R| |R| |Y| |X| |M| |A| |S|
>>> (_) (_) (_) (_) (_) (_) (_) (_) (_)
>>> /\Y/\ /\Y/\ /\Y/\ /\Y/\ /\Y/\ /\Y/\ /\Y/\ /\Y/\ /\Y/\
>>> [XXX] [XXX] [XXX] [XXX] [XXX] [XXX] [XXX] [XXX] [XXX]
>>> ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| |||
>>> ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| |||
>>> _|||_ _|||_ _|||_ _|||_ _|||_ _|||_ _|||_ _|||_ _|||_
>>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Eleven Pipers Piping
>>> _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
>>> ,/_) ,/_) ,/_) ,/_) ,/_) ,/_) ,/_) ,/_) ,/_) ,/_) ,/_)
>>> (") (") (") (") (") (") (") (") (") (") (")
>>> /I\ /I\ /I\ /I\ /I\ /I\ /I\ /I\ /I\ /I\ /I\
>>> (/^\) (/^\) (/^\) (/^\) (/^\) (/^\) (/^\) (/^\) (/^\) (/^\) (/^\)
>>> ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| |||
>>> ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| ||| |||
>>> _|||_ _|||_ _|||_ _|||_ _|||_ _|||_ _|||_ _|||_ _|||_ _|||_ _|||_
>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ten Lords A-Leaping
>>>
>>> w w
>>> w 0__ \0__
>>> \0__ w /|_ w /_
>>> /_ __0/ '\/ / \0_ '\/ / w
>>> '\/ / /_ ` /_ ` __0/
>>> ` `\/ \, _\ \, /_
>>> w ` `\/ \,
>>> \0__ w w
>>> /_ 0__ w \0__
>>> _\ \, /|_ __0/ |_
>>> ` `\/ \, /_ _\ \,
>>> `\/ /, `
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Nine Ladies Dancing
>>>
>>>
>>> () ()
>>> () _/)(\_ () _/)(\_
>>> _/)(\_ /^^\ () _/)(\_ /""\
>>> /~~\ /____\ _/)(\_ /``\ /____\
>>> /____\ /""\ /____\ ()
>>> () /____\ _/)(\_ ()
>>> _/)(\_ () /^^\ _/)(\_
>>> /``\ _/)(\_ /____\ /~~\
>>> /____\ /~~\ /____\
>>> /____\
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Eight Maids A-Milking!
>>>
>>>
>>> __.----. __.----. __.----. __.----.___

>>> (\(__)/)-' (\(__)/)-' (\(__)/)-' (\(__)/)-'
;--`
>>> `(uu)' _ `(dd)' _ `(gg)' _ `(vv)' _ |
>>> ) ( (|) ) ( (|) ) ( (|) ) ( (|) |
>>> (o o) 8~8 (o o) 8~8 (o o) 8~8 (o o) 8~8 ,/
>>> `--'\_ (__).`--'\_ (__).'`--'\_ (__).'`--'\_ _(__)|
>>> `|||~~/\|| `|||~~/\|| `|||~~/\|| `||~|| /\||
>>> ^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^
>>> __.----. __.----. __.----. __.----.___
>>> (\(__)/)-' (\(__)/)-' (\(__)/)-' (\(__)/)-' ;--`

>>> `(99)' _ `(66)' _ `(aa)' _ `(ee)' _ |
>>> ) ( (|) ) ( (|) ) ( (|) ) ( (|) |
>>> (o o) 8~8 (o o) 8~8 (o o) 8~8 (o o) 8~8,/
>>> `--'\_ (__).'`--'\_ (__).`--'\_ (__).`--'\_ _(__)|
>>> `|||~~/\|| `|||~~/\|| `|||~~/\|| `||~|| /\||
>>> ^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^`^
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Seven swans A-Swimming !
>>>
>>> ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___
>>> /,_ \ /,_ \ /,_ \ /,_ \ /,_ \ /,_ \ /,_ \ _,
>>> |/ )/ |/ )/ |/ )/ |/ )/ |/ )/ |/ )/ |/ )/ / |
>>> // _/ |// _/ // _/ // _/ // _/ // _/ // _/ |
>>> / (_/ / (_/ / (_/ / (_/ / (_/ / (_/ / (_/ _)
>>> / ` / ` / ` / ` / ` / ` / ` _/)
>>> \ ~=- \ ~=- \ ~=- \ ~=- \ ~=- \ ~=- \ ~=- /
>>> ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Six Geese A-Laying
>>> __ __ __ __ __ __
>>> >(' ) >(' ) >(' ) >(' ) >(' ) >(' )
>>> )/ , )/ , )/ , )/ , )/ , )/ ,
>>> /(____/\ /(____/\ /(____/\ /(____/\ /(____/\ /(____/\
>>> / ) / ) / ) / ) / ) / )
>>> \ ` =~~/ \ ` =~~/ \ ` =~~/ \ ` =~~/ \ ` =~~/ \ ` =~~/
>>> `---Y-' __ `---Y-' __ `---Y-' __ `---Y-' __ `---Y-' __ `---Y-' __

>>> ~~' (__) ~~' (__) ~~' (__) ~~' (__) ~~' (__) ~~'
(__)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Five Golden Rings
>>>
>>> .-. .-. .-. .-. .-.
>>> ((_)) ((_)) ((_)) ((_)) ((_))
>>> '-' '-' '-' '-' '-'
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Four Calling Birds (Hey- You! Yeah, You !)
>>>
>>> ___ ___ ___ ___
>>> ('v') ('v') ('v') ('v')
>>> (( )) (( )) (( )) (( ))
>>> -/-"---"---/-"---"---/-"---"---/-"---"--
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Three French Hens
>>>
>>> (\ }\ (\ }\ (\ }\
>>> ( \_('> ( \_('> ( \_('>
>>> (__(=_) (__(=_) (__(=_)
>>> -"= -"= -"=
>>>
>>>
>>> Two Turtle Doves
>>> _ _
>>> <')_,/ <') ,/
>>> (_==/ (_==/
>>> ='- ='-
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> And a Partridge in a Pear Tree!
>>> _
>>> ('>
>>> /))@@@@@
>>> /@"@@@@@()@
>>> @@()@@()@@@@
>>> @@@O@@@@()@@@
>>> @()@@\@@@()@@
>>> @()@||@@@@@
>>> @@||@@@
>>> ||
>>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>
Group: S-Trains Message: 707 From: Keith Thompson Date: 12/16/1998
Subject: Re: US Postal Service Equipment
Hi Tom,

I believe postal vehicles were changed from OD green to the
blue-and-white-with-red-stripe scheme in the early 1960s and then to the
all-white scheme in 1973. -- Keith Thompson in Seattle (I'm really in LA
this week)

TPDavis7@... wrote:
>
> From: TPDavis7@...
>
> HELP!!! Does anyone know in what year that the US Postal Service change the
> color of there vehicles and streeet boxes from O.D.(green) to white for the
> vehicles and blue for the street boxes. Thanks for any help. "S", Tom Davis,
> Charlotte, N.C.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info - http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm
Group: S-Trains Message: 708 From: PortLines@aol.com Date: 12/16/1998
Subject: Re: Ro
In a message dated 12/16/98 4:34:51 AM, you wrote:

<<Is this Charles Ro ad in Classic toy trains a typo? Brand new L-Flyer

Milwaukee Road and SP engines for 140.00?(ok, 139.95) Are they selling that

poorly or is there another reason. I talked with a Lionel dealer in Maine

this summer and he said that L-Flyer doesn't move because it is overpriced

(even when it is marked down). So what's the scoop? overpriced, quality

problems, apathy? This inquiring mind wants to know.

>>

Ro "bought out the factory" ! He purchased all remaining units of the 2
diesels, undoubtedly at rock-bottom cost, and is selling them off at that
price.......FAR, FAR lower than any of the dealers or shops originally bought
them wholesale ! So while he does that, the rest of us sit with them on our
shelves unless we want to match his price and lose a LOT of money!
I won't bother to comment on how that places Ro in the minds of all other AF
dealers in the country !
Doug
Group: S-Trains Message: 709 From: John Date: 12/16/1998
Subject: 371 Deisel, and other units with this type motor
Hello Gentlemen, and Ladies, I have numerous American Flyer Trains in my possesion. I have not ran them for about 10 years due to the fact that I have lost my area for a layout due to renovations in the house. You can understand what I mean. anyway, I put up the good AF trains for christmas this year, and have ran into a technicality, when i ran the 371 unit for about a half hour, it seemed to heat up on the motor end. So I went and let it cool down, took it all apart, and cleaned the whole chassis and motor assembly, now it is heating up, but not quite as fast. Does anyone have any suggestions to help this boy keep his AF trains running????

Thank you and Merry Christmas and a Happy New year.

ALL Aboard.

Sincerely, John Simkovich
You can respond to this e-mail online.
If you have ICQ my ICQ# is 793488
If you don't have ICQ you can page me through:
* My Personal Communication Center: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/793488 (go there and try it!)
* Or you can send me e-mail to 793488@...
You can download ICQ at http://www.icq.com/
Include your ICQ details in YOUR e-mail signature: http://www.icq.com/emailsig.html
John Simkovich
----------------------------------------------------
You can respond to this e-mail online.
If you have ICQ my ICQ# is 793488
If you don't have ICQ you can page me through:
* My Personal Communication Center: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/793488 (go there and try it!)
* Or you can send me e-mail to 793488@...
You can download ICQ at http://www.icq.com/
Include your ICQ details in YOUR e-mail signature: http://www.icq.com/emailsig.html
John Simkovich
----------------------------------------------------


Conductor John Simkovich
jps2102@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 710 From: William Horzempa Date: 12/16/1998
Subject: Train TRacker
I have used Train Tracker for several years and like it. After loading
your inventory you can produce several "canned" reports or export your
data to Excel, which will allow you to cut it in many ways. You can
also down load a Master AF inverntory or your personal inventory to a
Palm Pilot or similar device. This will allow you to have your data
base in a small hand held device when walking around train shows.
Group: S-Trains Message: 711 From: Dennis Back Date: 12/16/1998
Subject: Wanted: repro AF TRACK GANG
Anyone have a reproduction AF Track Gang accessory that they would
part with?

I saw an original on Ebay (I assume it's original with the high
minimum bid plus a reserve). A bit too pricey for me!

So if your tired of your repro....I'll give it a good home (and you'll
have some extra Christmas cash)!!!

A Merry and a Happy!
Dennis Back
Miami, Fl.
Group: S-Trains Message: 712 From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com Date: 12/17/1998
Subject: "L"-cheapo's
Which models are they selling for $140 (OK, $139.95)? Geeps, F-units,
PA's? I get CTT, but don't have a copy with me at work. Thanks.
Group: S-Trains Message: 713 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 12/17/1998
Subject: hot 371
I had one too. Great looker, quasi good runner, and it seemed to get hot.
They all get warm. Unfortunately diassembling, cleaning, replacing brushes
and thrust plates, centering the armature, lubricating, etc, produced only
small gains. Eventually, I found the thing that made a big difference was
swapping out the chassis with a later model version (complete with bushings
which the originals do not have). Now it's smooth (even at relatively slow
speeds), powerful, fast (will filp on curves at full speed), and cool. The
only "loss" was some of its originality - - wheels are gray not brass, and
the flanges are slightly taller. But it runs great. Rebushing the
original is another alternative, but I haven't any experience with that. A
replacement chassis sells for $18-22, depending on who you shop from and
whether or not you get dealers' discount. You will need to tap the holes
for the yoke screws and small screws for holding down bearing retainers
etc, but they're std thread types - - I think 6X32, and 4X40, but would
need to check at home. Good luck. The fun in 'em, is in run'n 'em.
Group: S-Trains Message: 714 From: Mark Preman Date: 12/17/1998
Subject: To the Bogerts
Thank you for your kind words on my new American
Flyer website www.americanflyertrains.com. I have
been extremely fortunate over the years with making
talented friends. The first person I would ask for
help in working on your web site is our mutual friend
Paul Yorke who did my previous site. The new site was
done by a childhood chum who has now gone into the
web construction business. His name is Austin T.
Bechtold and his e-mail is: austinb@...

I wish you a lot of fun and a great holiday season!

Mark
Group: S-Trains Message: 715 From: BBENN1147@xxx.xxx Date: 12/17/1998
Subject: Re: Welcome to S-Trains@onelist.com
What's the difference between "digest" and "normal " modes ?? thanks, Bob
Bennett
Group: S-Trains Message: 716 From: bellokdaka@xxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxx) Date: 12/17/1998
Subject: S' scale and American Flyer® compatible trains - Re: Dry transfer
Group: S-Trains Message: 717 From: bellokdaka@xxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxx) Date: 12/17/1998
Subject: Dry Transfers
Hello,
This is my first entry to your message board and I have a question for
you,
but first wanted to give you a little background as a way to introduce
myself.
In 1989 while in town to have a pair of boots repaired I spotted an old
American Flyer sign in the window of the local hobby shop. This
reminded me of my '56 Santa Fe Chief set waiting for it's chance to
escape attic confinement, so I entered the shop. Needless to say that
was the most expensive pair of boots I have ever owned and I can't even
remember what became of them, but somehow when I think of all the fun I
have had and the good people I have met in this hobby, I have to
acknowledge and offer my appreciation to Florsheim.

Now if you're still awake here's my question: I bought a restored K335
Northern, very nice paint job, but the dry transfer cab nos. just don't
look quite right, so I thought since this engine has been repainted
anyway why not number and letter it like a real U.P.4-8-4. Parts
dealers have repro. no. boards for #806
which is correct and I guess I can make up the cab nos. from one of
their sheets.
But does anyone know where I could find the proper size lettering for
UNION PACIFIC on the tender? Also is it possible to remove the old dry
transfers without damage to the paint job? Any tips or suggestions
would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Obie
Group: S-Trains Message: 718 From: lois ponton Date: 12/17/1998
Subject: flyer atlantic
I have Flyer Atlantic #21160, and I wish to set it up soon. There are a
few problems. First, I have to clean the track, which is old Flyer
track. Do you know of a easy way to do this? I use a Bright Boy and
rubbing alcohol on my HO track, would it work on the AF track as well?
And, I have a problem with my engine throwing sparks, especially at the
connector and the front truck of the tender. I know I need to get some
new wire, but I don't know what size to get. Please help me if you can.
lois
Group: S-Trains Message: 719 From: Jeffrey Tangeman Date: 12/17/1998
Subject: joys of wiring small layouts
Greetings,

I am tinkering with track layouts to do as much as possible in a small space
(4X8). I modified an arrangement that I found on a AF pikemaster folder to
have an oval within an oval. My modification was to put a crossover in the
middle of the inside oval by using four switches so the train could either
take the crossover or the oval or whatever I was in the mood for depending
on the action of the switches.

My problem is that when I powered up the arrangement nothing happened but a
very hot transformer. I traced out the power to each rail and on the inside
loop/crossovers A rail becomes B rail and back again. Needless to say I
believe that I have a mass of reverse loops in a small space. Since I need
to plug in nonconducting rail connectors where should they go? Block off the
inner oval and create it's own circut or...

Sorry that I can't attach an illustration but imagine a pikemaster oval with
switches at each short end leading to a smaller oval that has a crossover
superimposed over it.

Jeff Tangeman
Group: S-Trains Message: 720 From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx Date: 12/18/1998
Subject: Short box cars
Does anyone know where to get 30- or 36-foot box cars, standard gauge,
single or double sheath? Joe Pereira

email: sigma@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 721 From: Roy Plotnick Date: 12/18/1998
Subject: 322 SIT derails
.I have a recently repaired 322 SIT which runs well except that
it the drive wheels keep derailing on the curves. This is especially true
at higher
speeds. I'm still fussing with it, but I'd love to hear any suggestions on
things try.

While I'm at it, anyone have spare repairable SIT smoke unit? I have a 312
that needs one.

Happy Holidays to all!
-Roy

Roy E. Plotnick
Professor
Department of Earth and Environmental Sciences
University of Illinois at Chicago
845 W. Taylor St.
Chicago, IL 60607
plotnick@...
phone: 312-996-2111 fax: 312-413-2279
web page: http://www.uic.edu/depts/geos/plotnick.htm
"The scientific celebrities, forgetting their molluscs and glacial
periods, gossiped about art, while devoting themselves to oysters and ices
with characteristic energy.." -Little Women, Louisa May Alcott
Group: S-Trains Message: 722 From: L Montgomery Date: 12/18/1998
Subject: Lubricating Journals
Thanks for all the feedback on the blinking lights. Since some cars don't blink much and others blink constantly, I'm pretty convinced that I need to clean the journals as suggested. However, once I do this, I'd like to lubricate them. I'm leaning to the hair/beard clipper (Wahl) oil (if I can find a source) since I understand it is a good electrical conductor. Failing than, what would be the best alternative? Graphite? Teflon?

TIA,

Monty
---
Fight Spam! Join CAUCE! == http://www.cauce.org/
Outlaw Junk Email! Support HR 1748.





-----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==-----
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Group: S-Trains Message: 723 From: PortLines@xxx.xxx Date: 12/18/1998
Subject: Re: AF relettering
In a message dated 12/18/98 4:34:02 AM, you wrote:

<<I bought a restored K335

Northern, very nice paint job, but the dry transfer cab nos. just don't

look quite right, so I thought since this engine has been repainted

anyway why not number and letter it like a real U.P.4-8-4. Parts

dealers have repro. no. boards for #806

which is correct and I guess I can make up the cab nos. from one of

their sheets.

But does anyone know where I could find the proper size lettering for

UNION PACIFIC on the tender? Also is it possible to remove the old dry

transfers without damage to the paint job? Any tips or suggestions

would be appreciated.>>

This does not address the specific question....but it IS related. Be aware
that Port Lines has recently released about 100 different rubber-stamps for
use in restamping engines, tenders, cars, and some accessories. These are top-
quality stamps, made directly from enlarged photographs of the original
Gilbert stampings on the original items. They are exceptionally well-done.
Stamp prices range from $6 to $15 each.
A long SASE (#10 envelope) will get you a sheet illustrating all the stamps
which are available.
Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)
Port Lines Hobby Supply
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Port Lines @ aol.com http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 724 From: PortLines@xxx.xxx Date: 12/18/1998
Subject: Re: 21160
In a message dated 12/18/98 4:34:02 AM, you wrote:

<<I have a problem with my engine throwing sparks, especially at the

connector and the front truck of the tender. I know I need to get some

new wire, but I don't know what size to get>>

This is a common problem with the 21160.......it is a signal that the two lead
wires in the 2-pin plug are reversed, causing a short. Pull the pins out of
the plug, reverse the two wires, and reinsert the pins (they just pull
straight out , and tap back in against the wires, crimping them in place.)
That SHOULD solve the problem.....unless you have a short somewhere else!
Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)
Port Lines Hobby Supply
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Port Lines @ aol.com http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 725 From: Paul Yorke Date: 12/18/1998
Subject: S-Trains Update
I had a vacation day today so I got caught up on lots of S-Trains stuff:

1) I put the first batch of S-Trains survey data on the web. I use an
automated process, what it lacks in fancy it makes up in quickness. See
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/survey/results.htm (More reports are
in process)
If you have any questions, suggestions, comments, or paticular way you
would like to see the data, let me know.
If you don't see your name in the results please take the few moments to
fill out the questionaire.
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/info/survey.htm

2) I added an "Track Powered LED"
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/diagram/led2.htm and adjusted "Track
powered EOT lights " http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/diagram/led.htm

3) I generated Stock Yard hookup diagram
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/diagram/cattle.htm

4) Arthur Shifrin (aka Shiffy) sent me some links to some of his
creations. I created a little page
thet makes it easy for you folks to enjoy them too.
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/info/shiffy.htm

5) Jeffrey Tangeman had a reverse loop question, I created
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/diagram/loop.html to try and shed some
light on his question. Maybe provide one solution.

Enjoy!
--
Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl.
American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)
Group: S-Trains Message: 726 From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx Date: 12/18/1998
Subject: ties
Group: S-Trains Message: 727 From: kelvin white Date: 12/18/1998
Subject: tie spacing and size for turnouts.
My question is for code 100 rail which equates to 110 pound rail. What
would the prototype tie size (including average projection beyond the
rail),and tie spacings (centres) be, for a standard gauge #8 turnout.
--
Kelvin White
Oxford England<<
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Hi Kelvin,

A few years ago there was a diagram for tie spacing in
Mainline Modeler. Do you have access to MM? If not,
let me know. It was interesting to see the variation in tie
spacing under the points and under the frog.

Ted Larson
Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Group: S-Trains Message: 728 From: Keith Thompson Date: 12/18/1998
Subject: L.A. area S scale shops
Hi All,

I've got a free day in Los Angeles tomorrow (Saturday) and I was
wondering if any shops have some S scale stock worth seeing? I won't
leave the hotel until 10:00 PST so I'll keep checking my mail until
then. Thanks in advance for your help. -- Keith Thompson in Seattle,
temporarily in L.A.
Group: S-Trains Message: 729 From: Dennis Back Date: 12/18/1998
Subject: Santa Claus Injured by AF 322
This is a TRUE story (most of it, anyway)!

I am sad to submit the following report on an incident that happened
tonight on the "Little Miami (Florida...not Ohio) RR."

For several weeks, Santa Claus had been sitting patiently on the roof
the the Mystic talking station, but had to be moved when I changed the
needle on the soundbox. Upon completion of this task, I CAREFULLY
helped old Mr. Claus back up to his place on the station's chimney.

Upon my testing the talking station, the movement of the soundbox
startled Mr. Claus so much that he slid of the roof and landed in the
middle of the adjacent track. The engineer on the Hudson (and the
fiber track pins) could not stop the train in time and the 322 ran
over Mr. Claus. To the horror of the operator (me), Claus was found
stuck under the pilot!!! The Hudson's mighty wheels were spinning and
spinning, yet the train was going nowhere!

Emergency measures were taken immediately (I turned off the throttle
on the transformer). Luckily, there were no other reported injuries
to either the crew or the passengers.

I am happy to say that Mr. Claus is recovering nicely at the local
Plasticville Hospital. Claus says that for Christmas he is leaving me
some super glue to put under his duff so that this won't happen again!


And to all of my S-Train friends, I want to wish you a most joyous
Holiday season. Thanks to all of you who have made this list so
GREAT. Special thanks to Paul Yorke who MUST have a watch with 25
hours on it...to find the time to do so much for our hobby!

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year,
Dennis Back
Miami, Fl.
Group: S-Trains Message: 730 From: Bilfrazier@xxx.xxx Date: 12/19/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 78
<< From: sigma@...
Subject: Short box cars

Does anyone know where to get 30- or 36-foot box cars, standard gauge,
single or double sheath? Joe Pereira

email: sigma@...
>>
----------------------------------------------------------

Ye Olde Huff N Puff makes a number of easy 36' double sheathed craftsman kits
for box cars and reefers, both decorated and undecorated. They could easily be
shortened to 30". Ace or V&T archbar trucks and KD couplers are needed to
complete the kits. I have built several and they are nice. Clover House has
LOTS of appropriate dry transfers for these cars.

Bill Frazier
Group: S-Trains Message: 731 From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx Date: 12/19/1998
Subject: Several Replies
>>Subject: Short box cars
Does anyone know where to get 30- or 36-foot box cars, standard gauge,
single or double sheath? Joe Pereira<<

"Ye Olde Huff and Puff" used to make a 36' boxcar kit. I don't know
if they are still available.

==========================================
>>Subject: reefers

If anyone has Railroad Model Craftsman for April,
1994, please tell me briefly what it says about the use of overhead ice
bunkers by U.S. roads.
Joe Pereira<<

According to "The Great Yellow Fleet", US railroads experimented with
overhead ice bunkers before the Canadian roads did, and found that
they were more efficient (used less ice, kept temperatures lower, cooled
the cars quicker, more floor space), but did NOT adopt change over to
them, reasons unknown. As of 1969, FGE had only 165 overhead
bunker cars out of a fleet of 2400. This book also has drawings of
the CN 1948 overhead bunker car. The drawings are credited to
the 1949/1951 Car Builder's Cyclopedia.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>Subject: Trains for a 3.5 year old

Unattended I agree with the recommendation of the wooden trains by Thomas
or Brio (both compatible with the other). And by the way, they're fun to
play with the kids too. Attended, I started with my son at 10 months
old*
using the AC Gilbert American Flyer New Black Diamond Express set from
the
first year I was born. <<

I strongly agree with the above. Wooden trains are GREAT for kids,
BUT they are plenty capable of running electric trains. My son Jeff was
2 when GRANDPA bought and LGB set, and Jeff had no problem
running it, and he did not take long to learn to re-rail a boxcar. I
started him on AF soon after. NO problem.


Ted Larson
Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Group: S-Trains Message: 732 From: Robin Thompson Date: 12/19/1998
Subject: Re: L.A. area S scale shops
Dear Keith,
The following hobby shops have purchased items from us in 1998:

Palmdale Hobbies**
2127 E. Palmdale Blvd.
Palmdale, CA 93550
805-273-6229

Classic Trains***
18927 E. Colima Rd.
Rowland Hgts, CA 91748
626-912-0774

The Electric Train Co. ***
16200 Hawthorne Blvd.
Lawnsdale, CA 90260
310-370-3839

Hobby Shops who have used Walthers as a distributor. They are unrated
as they may have special ordered an item for a customer. WE do not know
if they still have our inventory only that they did purchase some (or
one) items from Walthers:

Pegasus Hobbies (NR)
5505 Moreno Blvd.
Montclair. CA 91763
909-982-6507

The Train Stop (NR)
211 West Bonita
San Dimas, CA 91773
909-599-3602

Pegasus Hobbies (NR)
6554 Green Leaf
Whittier, CA 90601
562-907-4663

Please let us know what you find.
I hope you have a Merry Christmas even if it is not at home,
Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.



>
> From: Keith Thompson <kthompso@...>
>
> Hi All,
>
> I've got a free day in Los Angeles tomorrow (Saturday) and I was
> wondering if any shops have some S scale stock worth seeing? I won't
> leave the hotel until 10:00 PST so I'll keep checking my mail until
> then. Thanks in advance for your help. -- Keith Thompson in Seattle,
> temporarily in L.A.
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 733 From: Paul Yorke Date: 12/19/1998
Subject: Survey Results
I only have data for 26 of the 316 subscribers. Come on, don't be
bashful. We want to hear from you.
(expect for the results pages, this data will not be used for any other
purposes) You know me no profit just FUN!
The S-Trains survey is located at
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/info/survey.htm

I am continuing to tweek the Survey results pages.
1) If your name does not appear on .. say the 'Ogranizations' page it is
because I have no data you you in that field. Same goes for all the
other pages.

2) If you would like to change any data, you can send me a note. All the
data is in an Access database and is easy to edit.

Question: So far I have refrained from putting E-Mail address on the
web. I suspect that most of you could find any needed address from
previous S-Trains traffic, or you could ask me. What do you think?

--
Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl.
American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)
Group: S-Trains Message: 734 From: Alex Binkley Date: 12/19/1998
Subject: AF in Toronto
Hi S'ers
I was in Toronto recently and just by chance had to pass near George's Trains. A strange force drew me into the store. Now thery didn't have any modern S stuff but they seemed to have a lot more AF than in the past. Lots of second-hand stuff. I don't know enough about AF to tell you what all was there but there were passenger and freight cars and some locos.
Alex Binkley
Hammond, Ontario
alex.binkley@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 735 From: Alex Binkley Date: 12/19/1998
Subject: We're back
Hi guys:
Well I have a new computer and I think I have figured out how to use it. Well my 17-year-old son has guided me this far.
So if this works right, I can now send out group messages. Just in time for the next century. I have also been delayed in all this by a heavy work load for the last six weeks but as freelancer, I'm not complaining.
Anyway we have three new members ( I hope I didn't lose any names in my computer flameout but if I did please let me know) They are Michael Holland at mjhtrains@..., Robert Sherwood at softmoods@... and Skip Mersereau at jwmersereau@....
I have received some interesting ideas on modern S products from Skip, Don Richards etc which I will pass on in a separate message. I will also have to finish that letter to the off line folks who expressed an interest in modern S. I had one suggestion that everyone volunteer to adopt one or two of the off listees and periodically send them printouts of what we are talking about. I also have to do a piece for S/Sn3 and the S-Guagian on our happy little gang.
Meanwhile best wishes to you all,
cheers
Alex Binkley
Hammond, Ontario
alex.binkley@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 736 From: Alex Binkley Date: 12/19/1998
Subject: Hey John Tomlins
Hi John:
can you contact me. My e-mail address for you was rejected by boeing.com. cheers
Alex Binkley
Hammond, Ontario
alex.binkley@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 737 From: Alex Binkley Date: 12/19/1998
Subject: another recruit
Hi:
welcome to Gale Hall gale_hall@... another member of our list.
Alex Binkley
Hammond, Ontario
alex.binkley@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 738 From: Alex Binkley Date: 12/19/1998
Subject: Blue Mountain hopper loads
Hi:
is there a source for Blue Mountain Hobbies gravel/ballast loads for S Scale America and AM four bay hoppers. thanks
cheers
Alex Binkley
Hammond, Ontario
alex.binkley@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 739 From: Keith Thompson Date: 12/19/1998
Subject: Re: L.A. area S scale shops
Hi Don,

Thanks for the wonderful tip! Of the first three shops you listed, only
Palmdale Hobbies was near L.A. and it took me about two hours to get
their but it was worth the drive! Bill, Sandie and Shorty* Winans have
one of the best if not the best stocked S shops this side of the
Mississippi. If you're ever in the L.A. area it's a shop worth visiting
and you may even see some trains along the way as Calif. 14 parallels
the UP/BNSF main lines.

*Shorty is Winan's very friendly shop cat that loves railroad videos.

I spent so much time with the Winans I didn't get to check out the other
shops but I'll probably end up back in L.A. again before the end of '99.

Also, I finally saw your beautiful track in person and I can't wait to
get some for our round-the-tree layout next year. Once, again, thanks
for your outstanding customer service. Now I really feel like I should
up my order on the F3s! Thanks and Happy Holidays -- Keith Thompson in
Seattle.

Robin Thompson wrote:
>
> From: Robin Thompson <robin@...>
>
> Dear Keith,
> The following hobby shops have purchased items from us in 1998:
>
> Palmdale Hobbies**
> 2127 E. Palmdale Blvd.
> Palmdale, CA 93550
> 805-273-6229
>
> Classic Trains***
> 18927 E. Colima Rd.
> Rowland Hgts, CA 91748
> 626-912-0774
>
> The Electric Train Co. ***
> 16200 Hawthorne Blvd.
> Lawnsdale, CA 90260
> 310-370-3839
>
> Hobby Shops who have used Walthers as a distributor. They are unrated
> as they may have special ordered an item for a customer. WE do not know
> if they still have our inventory only that they did purchase some (or
> one) items from Walthers:
>
> Pegasus Hobbies (NR)
> 5505 Moreno Blvd.
> Montclair. CA 91763
> 909-982-6507
>
> The Train Stop (NR)
> 211 West Bonita
> San Dimas, CA 91773
> 909-599-3602
>
> Pegasus Hobbies (NR)
> 6554 Green Leaf
> Whittier, CA 90601
> 562-907-4663
>
> Please let us know what you find.
> I hope you have a Merry Christmas even if it is not at home,
> Don Thompson
> S Helper Service Inc.
>
>
> >
> > From: Keith Thompson <kthompso@...>
> >
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I've got a free day in Los Angeles tomorrow (Saturday) and I was
> > wondering if any shops have some S scale stock worth seeing? I won't
> > leave the hotel until 10:00 PST so I'll keep checking my mail until
> > then. Thanks in advance for your help. -- Keith Thompson in Seattle,
> > temporarily in L.A.
> >
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info - http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm
Group: S-Trains Message: 740 From: Gerbasi Date: 12/20/1998
Subject: "cool" stuff at Target
While perusing the Xmas decorations at Target, I noticed some neat stuff for those of you who set up under the tree layouts. There appears to be a whole Bedford Falls Village to let you set up a "It's A Wonderful Life" scene. It appears pretty close to S.

There is also a bunch of Coca-Cola village stuff with some ceramic buildings that look at least more realistic than usual but are a little big for S BUT there are some "swell" battery powered signs, including a diner sign that would look great next to one of those Plasticville Diners, or even one of Doug Peck's great kits, and a truly tacky 1950's Cafe sign with a Chase Light effect.

I snapped up the signs and wired them into my layout, and they look great in night scenes.They are a little pricey, but if you want to chance it, they might be
marked down the week after Xmas, if they don't sell out.

Tom Gerbasi
Group: S-Trains Message: 741 From: jim Date: 12/20/1998
Subject: Made in China?
I have often read the comment that some one in the group would like to
see Lionel sell American Flyer to some other company. Well, at least
Lionel still makes most of their products here in the good old USA. If
you don't see a problem with most of the S gauge product coming from
Communist China, read the news article on the manufacturing of Furby's I
have included.
Group: S-Trains Message: 742 From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx Date: 12/20/1998
Subject: PacRail
I just received newsletter #11 from Pacific Rail.
There are several interesting bits of news.

NMRA members may order an ACF4650 Center Flow
hopper lettered for John Armstrong's Canandaigua Southern.
Does this refer to Canandaigua, New York?

NP reefers are sold out, and there are customers for more.
If you want one, let PacRail or your dealer know.
They are considering another run.

Did you miss the CB&Q/Burlington Refrigerator Express reefer?
Call Glenn Sponholtz, 423/427-2976. He might have some left.

FALL CLEARANCE Sale - through Feb. 15
There are several 50 foot (single and double door) cars available
for $10 (less trucks).
There are several 1937 40 foot boxcars available at $20 (less trucks).
At this price, strip them and decorate them using commercial
decals, or use them for your private road.

MERCHANTS DESPATCH reefer available in December; $40.
SWIFT red reefer available in January; $40.
PFE reefer available in January; $40.

PacRail - PO Box 867 Coos Bay, Oregon 97420-0201
541-267-6664


Ted Larson
Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division

________________________________________________________________
Get secure free e-mail that you don't need Web access to use
from Juno, the world's second largest online service.
Download your free software at http://www.juno.com/getit.b.html.
Group: S-Trains Message: 743 From: Alex Binkley Date: 12/20/1998
Subject: First modern prototype newsletter
Hi S'ers:
Well the first newsletter for the modern prototype crew has been prepared.
It's about 2,000 words long. I won't post it here because of the length but
will gladly send it anyone who wants a copy.
cheers
Alex Binkley
Hammond, Ontario
alex.binkley@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 744 From: Paul Yorke Date: 12/20/1998
Subject: Off subject - Web site development
Creating a website involves several different things.
1) Having some disk space out on the web.
a) Your ISP (internet service provider) may provide you with some
space free as part of your sign up fee.
b) Folks like Tripod, xoom, and others will give you some space, as
long as you run their ads on your pages.
c) People like me let folks add their pages to their sites,
providing they are content relevant.
2) Figuring out how to create a web page.
Different folks learn things differently.
My wife prefers to take a class to learn new things. I on the other
hand like to jump in and make all the mistakes by myself. I started out
learning HTML by looking at existing pages and figuring out what code
controlled what screen images. ('View Source")
I now use the Netscape editor (among other tools) to create pages. I
usually start from a blank page and build it up that way.
Here is a typical session.
From inside Netscape I click on 'File', then 'New' then 'Blank Page'.
If you do that you have just created a web page. It's a blank web page
but it is a page.
Like most editors all you need to do is start typing.
Usually a title across the top, then use the format functions to make it
bold and larger and maybe a different color.
Then maybe add a horizontal rule (a single click)
Then type or paste some content. Maybe an image or two.
Tables are always nice. You can control the table's cell borders, bold
or invisible.
Then at the bottom I type in a 'Created by... and a date, and an e-mail
and a return too.
Background color or image can also be configured.
Links to other pages ... 'Insert' then 'Link..."
Save this file to your hard drive.
3) This file then needs to get out on a machine that is connected (full
time) to the internet.(see step one)
I use WsFTP from ipswitch.com . It creates a little file manager window
that allows me to move files from my hard drive to the various drives
and folders out on the web.
-------
There is also a million sites out there to help you learn HTML. With
todays editors that is optional.
http://www.dtp-aus.com/index.html
http://www.cwru.edu/help/introHTML/toc.html
http://www.ncsa.uiuc.edu/General/Internet/WWW/HTMLPrimer.html
_______________________
One last thing, I could give you 10 good reasons to avoid using frames,
but I won't.
'Just say no' to using 'Frames' in your web pages. I don't use them and
I think my site is pretty good.
--
Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl.
American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)
Group: S-Trains Message: 745 From: LEAHY RUTH A Date: 12/20/1998
Subject: A.F. Eastwood truck
I need your help. I am looking for the Eastwood American Flyer stakebed
truck. It was red in color with the American Flyer logo on the sides.
This is for a gift. Anyone have one they would part with?

Mike Leahy
303-444-8980
Group: S-Trains Message: 746 From: Arthur Armstrong Date: 12/20/1998
Subject: Re: Made in China?
Hello-

I can agree that the terrible working conditions endured by workers all
over the third world are inexcusable but there were two statements in
your post that I would appreciate your expanding on - probably off-list.

You say "...most of the S gauge product coming from Communist China..."
Could you list the S gauge products that come from China? There is not
much we can do unless we know which they are.

In the article you quote someone has the question "where is the profit
going?" It seens to me that this is the crux of the matter. I suspect
that most of the profit from Chinese made Furbys and other products -
like clothing - is going to American companies and their owners.
Perhaps more education of the American buyer of the identity of these
companies and their owners (and their influence on congress in
constructing trade laws) would help us all choose more wisely - not only
of our trains but of our political "leaders".

(off topic - sorry)

Sincerely,
Art Armstrong
Group: S-Trains Message: 747 From: Vic Bereskin Date: 12/20/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 79
Sorry to hear that you had to drive all the way to Palmdale. I hope you had
business at Edwards AFB or one of the aerospace companies up there to help
justify the trip. Of the companies that Don Thompson mentioned, I am
familiar with The Electric Train Co. in Lawndale. It is right at the
Hawthorn Blvd. exit off of I - 405, a few miles south of LAX. (I don't
remember exactly how far, but it is before Long Beach.) It's a good store
dealing largely with classic trains and has a good Flyer layout and
selection. Or at least they did the last time I was there, which has been a
few years now. If they haven't changed much in that time, I would hearlily
recommend them.


Vic Bereskin


>Message: 10
> Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 23:07:30 -0800
> From: Keith Thompson <kthompso@...>
>Subject: Re: L.A. area S scale shops
>
>Hi Don,
>
>Thanks for the wonderful tip! Of the first three shops you listed, only
>Palmdale Hobbies was near L.A. and it took me about two hours to get
>their but it was worth the drive! Bill, Sandie and Shorty* Winans have
>one of the best if not the best stocked S shops this side of the
>Mississippi. If you're ever in the L.A. area it's a shop worth visiting
>and you may even see some trains along the way as Calif. 14 parallels
>the UP/BNSF main lines.
>
>*Shorty is Winan's very friendly shop cat that loves railroad videos.
>
>I spent so much time with the Winans I didn't get to check out the other
>shops but I'll probably end up back in L.A. again before the end of '99.
>
>Also, I finally saw your beautiful track in person and I can't wait to
>get some for our round-the-tree layout next year. Once, again, thanks
>for your outstanding customer service. Now I really feel like I should
>up my order on the F3s! Thanks and Happy Holidays -- Keith Thompson in
>Seattle.
Group: S-Trains Message: 748 From: Fred Alles Date: 12/20/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 79
Glad to get the names and addresses for some American Flyer dealers in
the LA area. I will be going to Anaheim, CA in the next several
months. Anyone know of some trains stores that have flyer in that
area? Any train shows in the Feb/March time period or so? Maybe I can
combine my business trip with some fun!

Thanks

Fred Alles <falles@...>
Group: S-Trains Message: 749 From: Robin Thompson Date: 12/20/1998
Subject: Re: "S" made in China?
Dear Jim (and Arthur),
This question regarding "S" made in China was asked in the "S" list
about 6 months ago and I am including our reply. This is the same
factory in China that all of the "S" that I am aware of is currently
produced.
I would like to add that all of this was the direct result of President
Nixon's open door policy with China and his trip to China in the 70's.
Don Thompson
S Helper Service Inc.

----- From the Original Message-----

> Like yourself, we too had questions about who was making our Showcase
>Line trains for S Helper Service. So, my partner Mike and I took our
>wives to China and Hong Kong to visit the factories and offices that
>produce our line. The factory is about 25 miles into China. The trip
>was on a highway very much like our interstate system that was owned by
>a Hong Kong investor (yes, there was a toll booth, shades of NJ
>turnpike). I saw very few cars, but a lot of trucks with containers.
>The factory was a very large five story building that was about 5 years
>old. It was huge and had a lot of very large open windows.
> The first floor had all of the injection molding equiptment. These
>machines were just about all run by middle aged men except for a one or
>two women, also middle aged.
> The second floor was where the tool room was located. Again, only men
>were used on this floor but for the apprencices who were a little
>younger.
> The third and fourth floor was for assembly and here we saw long table
>that went from one end of the floor to the other. Young women were
>sitting on either side of the tables adding parts to sub assemblies and
>passing them down as they completed each task. supervisors walked
>around and checked the assembly. Parts on one end of the table and
>finished trains at the other. At the very end each line every item was
>operated and tested. Then they were packaged and brought down to a
>warehouse on the first floor.
> One the top floor they did all of the decorations including painting
>and pad printing. Again, mostly men doing the painting and spray
>masking with mostly young women at the pad printers. Also on the top
>floor was the design team that had just finished the first set of
>drawings for our just released SW-9. We greeted all of the design
>engineers (4 men and one woman, all above 40 years)and I really feel
>that they were very proud of what they had done. We knew this was a
>special project for them as they had recently been hired a few months
>before and this was their first project. They had all worked together
>for another model train company (HO) and had been laid off in a
>downsizing of older design engineers (I am sure that you are aware of
>this happening in our country all of the time to all types of
>engineers). Mr. Ting, our builder hired them. Our first model drawings
>(about 80 drawings) were all hand drawn.
> I cannot comment on other companies that has stuff made in China. But,
>I am very glad that we took the time (14 days) to go to Hong Kong and
>China to meet the faces behind our models. What I found was that the
>factory that makes our products also makes Polk Aristo Craft,
>Inter-mountain, Life-like, K-Line, Williams, several european companies,
>Mickey Mouse back scrathcers for Disney and yes, even Lionel. They were
>making the Christmas Trollies.
> What I did not find was any shackles, guards (except at the borders),
>prisoners or little children in our factory. I have about 8 hours of
>video tape of our trip that I would love to show anyone who would like
>to come and visit. But, after about an hour it is mostly a cure for
>insomnia.
> If you have any additonal questions, please feel free to ask.
>S Helper Service Inc.
>Don Thompson
>
>P.S. Although the medical care in China is not nearly as good as ours,
>they do have universal health care.
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 750 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 12/20/1998
Subject: BEST MAG FOR PROMOTING?
Alex has raised the question of which S-Gauge magazine has the widest
outreach?

S-Guagian: may reach 5,000 plus readers per issue based on their
Postal statement of circulation as of December, 1998.

S/Sn3: I don't have figures for this publication as I have
only purchased it on occasion.

NASG Dispatch: since this only basically goes to members and the
membership varies between 1200 and 1600, I would say this has the lowest
outreach.

Not all NASG members buy the S-Gaugian and not all S-Gaugian
subscribers are members of the NASG. I would suggest forming a club
and sending newsletters to the club editors of all magazines, it's
a free promotion.
Group: S-Trains Message: 751 From: Richard Snook Date: 12/20/1998
Subject: "S" mags
Christmas Greetings

"WARNING" might offend.... only kidding...

Please be advised this is coming from the perspective of a non AF or HiRailer..With respect to the circulation demographics of the limited number of "S" mags which ones cater to what..... now be honest here please ( tongue in cheek here guys/gals).

Serious question...though we do all share the same scale, our beloved 1:64..I am curious to know if there is any favouritsm (warranted or otherwise) amongst the mags. Reason is simple, I'm not made of money and must address where I spend it....if one or the other is more likely to cater to my neeeds (PROTO,Modern,NorthWestern Prototype) then that is where I'm likely to lean. I would , via the newly found grapevine always be interested in articles which transcend the different areas of interest, some might argue get all of them...fellow modellers, my wife glares at me now, and I don't purchase all the mags I would like now!!!

This question is not meant in any way to be divisive just inquisitive. To me there is nothing wrong with a mag having a particular flavour. I'm happy for direct answers..should that be preferrred.

Merry Christma"S" :-)) Richard
Group: S-Trains Message: 752 From: Ken Zieska Date: 12/20/1998
Subject: Minnesota Heartland Western Division Weekend report
Well after months of rebuilding, the trackwork between Marilyn and the
Twin Cities has been re-established. While there is still work to be
done to get all of the electrical blocking done and a few bridges that
need to be completed, this is a nice feeling. One of the new features
is the trackwork that leaves the Rumansota River Valley and follows the
Cannon River enroute to Twin Cities. I like this new design and think
the Minnesota Heartland tracks in the valley will also look good when
they installed. Visit the NASG 99 website often and plan to join us
this summer in St. Paul.

Ken
Group: S-Trains Message: 753 From: John Date: 12/20/1998
Subject: Reversing Units
Hello Ladies and Gentlemen,

After not running my American Flyer trains for about 10 years, I have ran into a few minor problems, first and foremost, the reversing units seem to be starting to stick every once and a while, Is there a certain cleaner that I can use to clean them up, and possibly if I should lubricate them with something????
I was also wondering where I can some parts for some of my cars such as Couplars and items like that???
Group: S-Trains Message: 754 From: Arthur Armstrong Date: 12/20/1998
Subject: Re: "S" made in China?
Thanks for the information on items made in China. Generally speaking I
support all kinds of international trade - including with China and
Cuba. I think the more contacts we have the better the chances for
peace.

Abuse of employees seems to exist in all countries - as witness the
recent disclosure of sweat shops in Los Angeles using illegal immigrants
in virtually slave-like conditions.

I appreciate your information - I guess it is the kind of thing that
needs to be presented every now and then to keep us from making sweeping
generalizations.

Sincerely,

Art Armstrong
aarmstro@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 755 From: Arthur Armstrong Date: 12/20/1998
Subject: Re: "S" mags
Richard Snook wrote:
>
> From: Richard Snook <richard.snook@...>
>
> This question is not meant in any way to be divisive just inquisitive. To me there is nothing wrong with a mag having a particular flavour. I'm happy for direct answers..should that be preferrred.
>
When I first developed an interest in S I bought a copy of "S Gaugian"
My first impression was that it was 100% Flyer or Hirail. I was not
interested in that so I postponed thinking about S - believing that S
was all Flyer.

At the NMRA Nationals in Long Beach about a year later (1996?) I saw
some scale S models, talked to some vendors (probably Bill Wade but I
didn't know it at the time) and I discovered "S/Sn3 Modeling Guide" -saw
an ad for Southwinds SP 2-8-0 and I went home and tore out my HO layout.

Have been a committed S modeler ever since.

I agree with Richard that we are in this 1/64 bag together and there is
no reason for any division. We all benefit with new products and new
suppliers.

Art Armstrong
aarmstro@...

Not that there's anything wrong with that...

Art Armstrong
aarmstro@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 756 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 12/21/1998
Subject: 322 derails
Allow me to suggest you check for loose tires/rims. Repair with Zap-A-Gap
applied with a toothpick. Measure how wide apart your drivers are - -
should be ~18.75mm from back of flange to back of flange. Adjust
accordingly. Lift and run while in the air to look for bent axles. Remove
and replace/repair as needed. Inspect condition of driver flanges - -
nicks, bent sections, etc. Flanges come in two heights - - short and tall.
With a 322 quite likely they are the short variety which are sometimes more
prone to derailment, especially around fast curves that include a switch.
Sometimes its actually the tender "tugging" on the engine that makes it
look like a driver derailment. Inspect your tender wheels, trucks,
pick-ups, etc, and observe them it all as it comes to place where frequent
derailments seem to occur. Good luck. Keep the shiny side up.
Group: S-Trains Message: 757 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 12/21/1998
Subject: rev unit and lube
Remove unit and clean drum with Isoproponol (isopropyl alcohol) on a Qtip
up from the bottom. Be careful of the front fingers. I slide a small
tongue of 600 grit under each pair of fingers and activate the unit by hand
to help polish. Replace any badly worn fingers. You can use the alcohol
to clean up other parts of the unit too.

In terms of lubing. I've tried 30 weight automotive motor oil, Labelle 107
and 108, and others. I've settled on Gunk Super Oil (in a little tin
bottle with plastic spout, ~$2.95 at Home Depot), and Labelle teflon
impregnated grease (in a white tube). I tansfer the Super Oil into an
emptied Labelle needle-bottle, and brush the Labelle grease on where it's
needed with a stiff (nylon, not camel hair) model paint brush.

Generally, once cleaned, you don't need to lube a reverse unit, but if
you're so compelled, a tiny drop of the Super Oil on the ends of the drum,
rocker points of the plate on the bottom and ratchet arm on the side.
Group: S-Trains Message: 758 From: Keith Thompson Date: 12/21/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 79
Hi Fred,

I visited PRESTIGE HOBBIES, 1238 S BEACH BLVD. # B, (714-821-8320)
during my trip last week and it by far has the most old American Flyer
and at very reasonable prices too. For a map of how to get there, go to:
http://www.uswestdex.com/map/cgi-bin/mqcustomconnect.cgi?&client=10006&Psa1=1238+S+BEACH+BLVD+%23+B&Pcy1=ANAHEIM&Pst1=CA&Pzp1=92804-4828&POI1lat=338168&POI1lng=-1179930&Pcd1=33&Pnm1=PRESTIGE+HOBBIES&Pph1=%28714%29+821-8320&var2=/cgi/search.fcg%3fhdg_val%3dHobby%2520%2526%2520Model%2520Supplies%252DRetail%26uid%3d2%252D1369542%26inreg_flag%3dN%26dir%3d95945%26previous_page%3dxref%26x%3d40%26first%3d26%26y%3d7%26metro%3dchecked%26xref_hdg%3dHobby%2520%2526%2520Model%2520Supplies%252DRetail%26heading_id%3d1883%26state%3dCalifornia%26form%3dQuickSearch%26metroarea%3dORANGE%2520COUNTY%26city%3dANAHEIM%26hdg_xref_scrollist_entry%3dHobby%2520%2526%2520Model%2520Supplies%252DRetail%25231883&var3=1238%2520S%2520BEACH%2520BLVD%2520%2523%2520B&var4=ANAHEIM&var50=PRESTIGE%2520HOBBIES&var52=Federal%2520Way&var53=WA&lat=338168&lng=-1179930&level=9&event=zoom.
-- Keith Thompson

Fred Alles wrote:
>
> From: Fred Alles <falles@...>
>
> Glad to get the names and addresses for some American Flyer dealers in
> the LA area. I will be going to Anaheim, CA in the next several
> months. Anyone know of some trains stores that have flyer in that
> area? Any train shows in the Feb/March time period or so? Maybe I can
> combine my business trip with some fun!
>
> Thanks
>
> Fred Alles <falles@...>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info - http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm
Group: S-Trains Message: 759 From: L Montgomery Date: 12/21/1998
Subject: Re: Cool Stuff at Target
In case any of you decide to go to Target's after Christmas sale...

I am using six of the Target "It's a Wonderful Holiday" ceramic buildings (based on It's a Wonderful Life) on my Christmas layout and they appear to be real close to 1:64 scale. I also am using some Plasticville stuctures (station, loading platform and colonial church) but added "snow" on the rooftops using vinyl spackling. The Plasticville structures (labelled for O and S scale) seem to be the same scale as the ceramic buildings. I printed out Bedford Falls station signs on a Laser printer, glued them to cardboard and replaced the "Plasticville" ones. (I also printed out a signs that say "You Are Now In Bedford Falls" and "Welcome Home Harry Bailey.")

I'm using the rolled "snow cover" material they sell for ceramic villages for snow cover. I think a better choice would have been foam "headliner" material but I couldn't find it in white.

To make it appear that there is a snow covered street (Sycamore St.) I tied clear monofilament fishing line between small nails and embedded the nails in the "snow." This produces apparent indentation where the edge of the road would be. I placed HO scale picket fences around the yards of Mary Hatch's house and 320 Sycamore. Since the fence is supposedly partially embedded in snow, it appears to look right.

I need to get some three-globe street lights (I've seen them at four for $13.00) and some snow covered trees to make it look better but I'm satisfied with it so far.

The "accessories" that Target sells for the IAWH series all seem to be too big. The adult humans would hit their heads on the doorways of the buildings. If you know of a source for cheap autos, human figures, that would be appropriate for the winter of 1946 I'd appreciate hearing about it.

Happy Holidays To All,

Monty
---
Fight Spam! Join CAUCE! == http://www.cauce.org/
Outlaw Junk Email! Support HR 1748.



-----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums
Group: S-Trains Message: 760 From: Richard Snook Date: 12/21/1998
Subject: DCC and Y2K
Though not strictly an Espee topic, I'm sure the wealth of everyones knowledge might help with this one.

I'm currently looking at Computer Control and DCC, and as the Y2K site co-ordinator for the company I am employed by, it suddenly occurred to me...are any of the commercial Computer Control apps and for that matter, is the DCC standard Y2K compliant. I have not (yet) looked with any deliberate focus at the specs of the DCC format, does it rely on the RTC or does it take its cudos in any way from a BIOS embeded or otherwise. It seems to me that much of the LOCO settings are of a PLC nature. Is there any info on this matter???

thanks and merry christmas *<(:-))> Richard
Group: S-Trains Message: 761 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 12/21/1998
Subject: S Gaugian/S Scale
Much of S Gaugian magazine is hi-rail & American Flyer oriented but the
December issue page 5 has an ad for Lehigh Valley Models and there are
often articles by Frank Titman, who is 100% S scale. River Raisin has an
ad as does Digitrax, SouthWind Models, Kadee Quality Products and
others. Many S scalers renovate Gilbert engines and cars to scale
operation. Many S scale clubs are listed. I am going out on a limb again
but so far Paul Yorke's survey has more Flyer operators listed than
scale operators. So let's enjoy all aspects of S and support each other
as we promote the be"S"t scale.

Staying on NASG track, Glenn
Group: S-Trains Message: 762 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 12/21/1998
Subject: ANY MODULES GOING TO THE CONVENTION?
I know that several clubs are represented on the S-Trains Digest as
indicated on Paul Yorke's survey responses. Robert Fann has not received
any responses except from me so far. Following is Bob's response to my
question: "Bob, Have you gotten much response from clubs?

Bob replied,
"Well, no. With the single exception of your note, to which I am
replying, there has been zero, zip, zilch, nada by way of response.
Did I say something wrong? Or is it that nobody really wants to spend
an entire convention babysitting a modular display? (I know I
wouldn't!)
Do you know of any individuals or clubs that I should contact directly?
One group I already know of -- from my five years in Ohio -- is the
CVSG, with their portable (but not strictly "modular") layout, which
they set up in the National Train Show at the NMRA national convention
in Atlanta in 1995. We still don't know whether we will actually get
more room, so I can't promise that all interested parties could be
accommodated -- but if the response so far is any indication, we may not
have to worry about it after all.
Thanks, Glenn, for your response."
Group: S-Trains Message: 763 From: Paul Yorke Date: 12/21/1998
Subject: S-Mod
S-Mod Operators: We need your HELP!

There are probably some newbees out there who are struggling with where
to begin in designing a S-Mod module. You can help them by sending a
sketch of some basic module track plans to me. I will add them to the
S-Mod
section of my website.

Thanks.

--
Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl.
American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)
Group: S-Trains Message: 764 From: Richard Snook Date: 12/21/1998
Subject: Re: DCC and Y2K
Thanks Art

Thomas Beutel (splist) is forwarding question to them.

Basically the question ( if you were bamboozled) was concerning Year 2000 compliancy regarding DCC and Computer Layout Control. The Millenium Bug ( as some call it) might bring some Computers ( OR Microprocessor controleed systems) unstuck as they roll over into the next century...most computer code was written in an era ( even up til fairly recently) allowing only 2 spaces for input of year i.e mm/dd/yy style. Unfortunately this may not be sufficient for some operating systems ( and/or applications) who might revert to their datum date of ..sometimes 1980, sometimes 1900 or whatever date the code writers used as their reference, instead they should show the year as 2000, but this may not occurr. So what??..well if a computation requires a time parameter and references the year, it may be using an incorrect value in its algorithm, giving erroneous results. Compound this error and you're in real strife. Just as an aside, if you think this is only a problem relating to your PC, Ihave very grave news for you. This Y2K, Year 2000, Millenium Bug,(call it what you may) is basically the BIGGEST can of worms mankind has devised for itself...and yet has an almost simplistic beauty (sic) of its own...it occurrs because from early times of computer programming, space was an issue, so to save space they only used two digits for the year input..i.e 76 or 98 to represent 1976 and 1998 repsectively... and so on it went. The early programmers felt sure thast these applications would be superceded by a date compliant version eventually, but in many instances these LEGACY systems were updated, but not totally rewritten, leaving the date issue alone. THIS is what has come home to ROOST. If you think this is scare-mongering. Think again.Companies and Governments are spending mega BILLIONS in an attempt to rectify this before it can cause problems.....and it already is...as a ny sytem or application that uses forward forcasting or forward booking abilitities will need to utilise the date mm/dd/2xxx correctly and some systems are failing today.

Hope this explains things for those who were wondering what the hell Iwas ranting about.

Merry Christmas *<(:-))> Richard

-----Original Message-----
From: Arthur Armstrong [SMTP:aarmstro@...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 1998 8:59 AM
To: richard.snook@...
Subject: Re: DCC and Y2K

Hi Richard -

Have you heard of the DCCSIG list? Here is its address.

I couldn't find the info on subscribing but I think you can send them a
note with your question - perhaps they will understand. There are some
really sharp people on that list.
DCCSIG-L@...

Art Armstrong
Group: S-Trains Message: 765 From: Paul Yorke Date: 12/21/1998
Subject: New Data
I am enjoying reading your survey data.
If you visit the report pages make sure you press reload.
My browser tends to cache the previous report.
I changes all the filenames today, so this first time in should be good.

There is 43 folks in the database.
There is now 10 reports, I think I have all the fields in at least one
report.
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/survey/results.htm

Please take a look. I listen to all suggestions. (even act on some of
em)

--
Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl.
American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)
Group: S-Trains Message: 766 From: GPMLG@xxx.xxx Date: 12/21/1998
Subject: 332 Silver lettering ?
Hi,
I have two 332 DC,s, SIB one of them I know have white lettering and the
other I'm not sure. It looks silver to me but then again it could be faded.
Maybe I can take it to someone in the N.J. area. or maybe you can help.
Need to know?

Thanks and have A HAPPY HOLIDAY,
GPMLG@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 767 From: NYC17819@xxx.xxx Date: 12/21/1998
Subject: #8 Turnout ties
#8 turnout ties and spacings

All ties in a turnout should be the same size, usually 7 inches deep and 9
inches wide for modern railroads. In the 19th century main tracks, and
currently on some short lines and secondary tracks that have old ties, the
ties may be only 8 inches wide, and may be only 6 inches deep.

Until sometime in the 1970's, ties for turnouts came in lengths with 6"
increments, but are now generally in even foot increments. This affects the
locations where the tie length changes, and in some cases the distance from
the rail to the end of the tie on the curved side of the turnout is as small
as 12 inches. However, many turnouts still exist with 6 inch increment ties,
and most modellers modell an era when all turnouts had 6 inch increment ties.
The following description, taken from the New York Central drawing number E-8
of their Engineering Committee Standards, details a turnout with 6 inch
increment ties.

The tie spacing for a number 8 turnout starts with the point of switch at the
outside edge of the first headlog or long tie that holds the switch stand.
For simplicity, I'll call this tie number 1. These headlogs are 16'-0" long
and are aligned so that one end is 4'-3" from the center line of track. (Some
railroads used and still use ties on normal track that are 8'-0" long, most
use 8'-6" long, and some use 9'-0". If you are modelling a railroad using
other than 8'-6" normal ties, then modify the distance from the center line of
track to the end of the ties accordingly.) The second headlog, tie number 2,
is located so that the center line of the tie (along the length of the tie) is
22" away from the center line of the first tie.

Ties #3 - #12 are all 9'-0" long. #3 tie is spaced 20" away from tie #2.
Ties #4 - #9 are spaced 19.25" away. Tie #10 is 19" away from #9. Ties #11
and #12 are 17" away.

Ties #13 - #18 are all 9'-6" long. Tie #13 is 18" away from #12. Ties #14
and #15 are 19" away. Ties #16 and #17 are 19.25" away. Tie #18 is 20.25"
away.

Ties #19 - #23 are all 10'-0" long. Ties #19 - #22 are 20.25" away. Tie #23
is 19.25" away.

Ties #24 - #27 are 10'-6" long and are all spaced 20" away.

Ties #28 - #30 are 11'-0" long and are all spaced 20" away.

Ties #31 - #33 are 11'-6" long. Ties #31 and #32 are 20" away, and tie #33 is
21" away.

Ties #34 - #36 are 12'-0" long. Tie #34 is 21" away. Tie #35 is 20" away.
Tie #36 is 17.5" away.

Ties #37 - #40 are 12'-6" long. Ties #37 - #39 are 17.5" away. Tie #40 is
19" away.

Ties #41 - #42 are 13'-0" long. Tie #41 is 17" away, and tie #42 is 19" away.

Ties #43 - #44 are 13'-6" long and 19" away.

Ties #45 - #47 are 14'-0" long. Ties #45 and #46 are 19" away. Tie #47 is
17" away.

Ties #48 - #50 are 14'-6" long. Tie #48 is 17" away. Ties #49 and #50 are
19" away.

Ties #51 - #53 are 15'-0" long. Tie #51 is 19" away. Ties #52 - #53 are
19.5" away.

Ties #54 - #55 are 15'-6" long and 19.5" away.

Ties #56 - #58 are 16'-0" long and are also 19.5" away.

Ties beyond #58 are the normal 8'-6" long but the first 2 must be interlaced
with those on the diverging track until the track centers are far enough
apart.

On crossovers, the ties near the frogs are lined up with the ties on the
adjacent track and alternated so that every other tie from one turnout is long
and corresponds to a short tie on the other turnout. The spacings of these
ties is somewhat different from that outlined above.

On right hand or left hand turnouts, the ties are aligned so that the ends
adjacent to the straight side of the turnout line up with each other, and are
4'-3" from the center line of track. The ties on the curved side have varying
distances from the curved rail to the tie ends. On equilateral (commonly
called "Wye" turnouts in model railroading parlance) or other curved turnouts,
the line side of the turnout where the ties line up with each other is the
mainline track side.

Chris Harding
Group: S-Trains Message: 768 From: Ken Zieska Date: 12/21/1998
Subject: Ertl
I purchased an ERTL train set the other evening. At 37.00 dollars, I
consider it a wonderful bargain. First, it contains 4 very usable
figures. At the going rate of 4.00 each, the rest of the set cost me
21.00. The freight cars are cheep toys, not even useful for
background. The track.... well it aint proto64. There is a nice
building that is similar to Plasticville so that is OK but the gem is
the engine. While it lacks handrails and some detail, it is a very fine
basis for building a useful S engine. In fact, if you have reworked
some of the old Enhorning shells, this is scales better. I have the
ERTL unit sitting next to an American Models GP-35, the relief on the
long hood is about the same, the cab shape is close but the AM unit has
finer window detail. The AM short hood has a better profile and the
ERTL hatch doors on both ends are over done. The end platforms on the
ERTL are crude and will be difficult to salvage. All in all, this isn't
as nice as the American Models unit and of course it lacks drive but for
so little money, it makes a nice toy. We are running the wheels off the
ERTL this Christmas and next year, we plan to have S Helper Track, the
ERTL engine with better couplers a 46' American Models Flatcar, an S
Helper outside braced boxcar and of course the S Helper Christmas
Caboose to make a better display. In fact, if Fleet Farm follows past
practice, next Saturday, I may find another set for 1/2 price....
Ken Z.
Group: S-Trains Message: 769 From: Russcalla@xxx.xxx Date: 12/21/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 80
Just a passing note to all American Flyer supporters. Thanks for all the
information from a great bank of knowledge. I really learn from all of you.
Today, I received my magazine called " The Collector" from the editor and
publisher, Frank Hare. He has been a major contributor to the growth of "S"
gauge and the cheerleader for American Flyer collectors for many years. He has
informed his readers to hold up all 1999 subscription payments until his
surgery in one eye takes place and the Almighty takes care of the other eye.
Though I have never had the pleasure of meeting this man;his time, energy, and
comittment to our scale is second to none. His efforts command at least one
prayer from all of us. To all of you, I wish you the best for this Holiday
Season. Russ Callahan
Group: S-Trains Message: 770 From: Wayne Broadhead Date: 12/21/1998
Subject: LA stores
Fred,
When you go to the LA area, I would encourage you to go to a store called
the Electric Train Co. (mentioned in S trains the last couple of days). I
personally know one of the owners, and have bought several pieces of
Gilbert H.O. from him. He is perhaps the largest seller of Gilbert H.O. in
the country, and has an amazing collection of products that he brings to
most of the big shows in California.

You will see brand new, yes, mint engine's and cars by the dozen. And even
parts for nearly all the Gilbert H.O. accessories.

This person also sells S guage product along side the H.O. If his store is
ANYTHING like what he brings to the shows, your drive will be well worth it.

Wayne
Golden Spike American Flyer Club
Group: S-Trains Message: 771 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 12/21/1998
Subject: MADE IN CHINA?
Well you sure made my day. I decided to check the recent cars and trucks
in 1/64 scale to compliment my Gilbert (Made in New Haven) Trains.

Most Items at Wal-Mart & discount stores are : Made in China
Hartoy trucks: Made in China
Racing Champion cars: Made in China ($5.00)
ERTL farm tractors: Made in China ($3.00 to $10)
Matchbox ( recent vintage): Made in China ($.99)
Liberty Classics trucks & planes: Made in China ($20)
Hot Wheels cars: Made in Malaysia
American Flyer truck sold by "L": Made in Macao ($15)
Solido cars & trucks: Made in France
Rio cars: Made in Italy
Dinky Toys: Made in England
Days Gone cars & trucks: Made in England ($9.95)
Lledo cars & trucks: Made in England

WINROSS TRUCKS: Made in USA ($35 to $60)

Merry Christmas and happy shopping!
Staying on S Gauge track, Glenn
Group: S-Trains Message: 772 From: Arthur Armstrong Date: 12/21/1998
Subject: Pre-1940 trucks
Hello-

According to Paul's survey there are three or four members who model an
era before 1940.

I am attempting to stay in 1935 on my layout but have run into some
problems in buying appropriate hardware.

Specifically:
Does anyone know where I can get S scale trucks for any of these: (all
quotes from the kadee web site which also has pictures.
http://www.kadee.com)

Arch-bar (similar to Kadee HO #501) "typical from around the turn of the
century ... in interchange through about 1941"

Early Andrews (similar to Kadee HO #509) "turn of the century truck used
through the end of the 1950s"

Bettendorf Double truss (similar to Kadee HO #500) "Introduced in 1930's
and used in interchange through 1993."

I am hoping to get "modern" plastic trucks with pointed axles and steel
wheels code 110 or code 88 <grin>.

Many thanks for any assistance.

Art Armstrong
aarmstro@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 773 From: David Dewey Date: 12/21/1998
Subject: Re: 332 Silver lettering ?
Could be, can be found both ways depending on production run. I dunno what
the ratio or rarity of one or the other is though. Little details like this
help the 'rivet counters' figure out how many production runs a particular
AF item had. I find it facinating what manufacturijng practice details these
people figure out. Might be boring to some, but I love it!!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 774 From: kelvin white Date: 12/22/1998
Subject: Doghouses
Greetings from flu ridden England!

The Omnicom MP 2-8-0 tender has a 'small wooden shack' on it, always
known to me as a doghouse.

A brouse through Kalmbach's steam cyclopedia will reveal similar
structures on the tenders of a FEC - USRA heavy 4-8-2, a Texas & Pacific
2-10-4, MP and Southern USRA heavy 2-8-2s, Fec & Frisco USRA light
2-8-2s, and a Frisco 'Russian' 2-10-0.

My questions are simple. For what purpose was the doghouse used, and why
were they prevelant only on 'southern' railroads and not on say the C&NW
or Soo?
--
Kelvin White
Oxford England
Group: S-Trains Message: 775 From: kelvin white Date: 12/22/1998
Subject: #8 Turnout ties and a new S scale turnout
In message <27b0cae4.367f0fd9@...>, NYC17819@... writes
>From: NYC17819@...
>
>#8 turnout ties and spacings

Chris and others

Many thanks for all of your very useful information on prototype turnout
tie spacing.

The reason I was asking is that I'm fed up with the crap that Shinoharo
pretend is a scale turnout. If you want chapter and verse on how bad
these models are please ask.

The only alternative for code 100 rail turnouts are the Old Pullman
preformed rail kits which you have to spike down. Unfortunately BTS are
out of the #6 & #8 LH & RH turnouts, and Billy doesn't know when they he
will have them in stock again.

In the UK we often use PCB ties with the rail soldered to the tie, which
is gapped. I have found a UK company that will make #6 & #8 LH & RH
turnouts to NASG standards with correct tie spacing etc. All that is
then needed is to connect up the crossing V to a microswitch or switch
machine to change its polarity. The rub unfortunately, is that I need a
minimum order of 40 turnouts, ie 10 of each, to help cover the cost of
jig set up etc. I anticipate that the turnouts will cost between �18 -
�20 sterling plus postage cost.

If you are interested in this 'venture' please contact me.
--
Kelvin White
16 Brogden Close
North Hinksey
Oxford OX2 9DS
England

Tel 01865 249897
Group: S-Trains Message: 776 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 12/22/1998
Subject: Gunk Super Oil
Forgot to mention it is a light oil. You may have to inspect and lube your
running gear a little more often than if you use a higher viscosity oil,
but Gunk Super does a pretty good job of holding up yet doesn't seem to
attract as much dust/sludge as heavier oils do. Of course, use sparingly,
too much oil is almost as bad (worse in the case of being near commutators)
than too little.
Group: S-Trains Message: 777 From: Chuck Smith Date: 12/22/1998
Subject: Re: 332 Silver lettering ?
GPMLG@... wrote:
>
> From: GPMLG@...
>
> Hi,
> I have two 332 DC,s, SIB one of them I know have white lettering and the
> other I'm not sure. It looks silver to me but then again it could be faded.
> Maybe I can take it to someone in the N.J. area. or maybe you can help.
> Need to know?
>
> Thanks and have A HAPPY HOLIDAY,
> GPMLG@...
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info - http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm
Silver lettering was used very early. I think my pair of 1946 310s
might have had silver letters before I repainted them about 50 years
ago.
--
"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers and the
S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith
Group: S-Trains Message: 778 From: Chuck Smith Date: 12/22/1998
Subject: Re: Doghouses
kelvin white wrote:
>
> From: kelvin white <kelvin@...>
>
> Greetings from flu ridden England!
>
> The Omnicom MP 2-8-0 tender has a 'small wooden shack' on it, always
> known to me as a doghouse.
>
> A brouse through Kalmbach's steam cyclopedia will reveal similar
> structures on the tenders of a FEC - USRA heavy 4-8-2, a Texas & Pacific
> 2-10-4, MP and Southern USRA heavy 2-8-2s, Fec & Frisco USRA light
> 2-8-2s, and a Frisco 'Russian' 2-10-0.
>
> My questions are simple. For what purpose was the doghouse used, and why
> were they prevelant only on 'southern' railroads and not on say the C&NW
> or Soo?
The Pennsy used dog houses on their long haul tenders. The doghouse was
for the front end brakeman to ride in. I remember seeing these on the
Elmira Division on I1 decapods and M1A mountains in about 1949.
--
"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers and the
S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith
Group: S-Trains Message: 779 From: David Dewey Date: 12/22/1998
Subject: Re: Doghouses
Kevin,
As has been pointed out, the doghouse is to provide shelter for the head
breakman, as well as placing him where he can keep an eye out for hotboxes,
and other calamities. The WP even used them, and at Portola we have one! A
very rare piece, this one was taken off back in the 40s and used as a
playhouse by someone's kids, so it survived essentially intact. It has
mirrors, windows that open, pretty much set up like a caboose cupola. Now if
we just had a WP steamer to put it on..... (Well we do have 1/2 of a WP
steamer, we have one of the tenders from the WPs two GP 4-8-4s--it had been
used as a rotary snowplow tender, has been sideswiped, but could be
restored--in fact, I understand that the 4449 crew had looked at it once for
an auxilary tender.) Now if we could just get the rest of the museum to
respect the doghouse, and give it protected shelter instead of sitting
outside in the 'junk' pile. (Don't get me started on 'playing trains' vs
'running a museum')
Hmm, before I forget,
MERRY CHRISTMAS!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 780 From: Daniel Neumayer Date: 12/22/1998
Subject: S Guage in Baltimore
I am currentliy in Baltimore, MD visiting my parents. Anyone know of train
shops, working layouts, toy train shows, etc. I can take in. My folks are
in the Carney/Towson area and don't get around much anymore, so anything
would have to be close in.

I am familiar with the B&O museum, so no need to mention that.

Thanks,
Daniel
Group: S-Trains Message: 781 From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx Date: 12/22/1998
Subject: Railway crossing signals
ATTENTION, ATTENTION!!!!!! Rush to Lowes Hardware, here in Charlotte, in
there Christmas decoration section, I found battery operated, flashing railway
crossing signals on sale for $1.97 each. The brand name is LEMAX Village
Collection, they measure out to a scale 21' in height and they look great next
to my Leigh Valley elevated crossing shanty. "S", Tom
Group: S-Trains Message: 782 From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx Date: 12/22/1998
Subject: 40's and 50's autos avail now
.
>Hey send your kids or wife on down to Toys R Us or maybe even Kmart or
Walmart.Look in the Hot wheels area and U will find, lo, quite a few 1/55 to
1/72
or thereabouts cast model cars of such as 51 Ford pickup, 49 Buick, 49 Ford,
El Camino or Ranchero I forget which, and so on . Look both at the Motor
Trend car series and also the retro stock cars. They all run about $3 to $4
each. Tell your kids and they can buy you one for christmas!!!! I dont know
why
the scale varies except maybe to fit on hot wheels track??????????????????

>Enjoy---------
>Lars

Just made my 2nd trip today and stock WAY down from 3 days ago, some are a
limited edition.




----
Group: S-Trains Message: 783 From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx Date: 12/22/1998
Subject: Modules???
Could someone eleborate on the module concept for S ga?
I had constructed 2 as a switching layout in HO some years ago, 16 x 48
inches and connect end to end the long way. Integral pulse power pac.
Switches all manual.
1 x 3 wood frame with 1" styrofoam for the infill. EZ to sculpt with Xacto
for drainage ditches etc, Then etch with a bit of lacquer thinner for
roughness.
CUrious as to how far and much this has gone in S.
thanx
L.
Group: S-Trains Message: 784 From: Richard Snook Date: 12/22/1998
Subject: re Crossing signals
Tom

I've booked the flight, am on my way, ...ah a white christmas too.....sorry all, must be the 35 deg (c) heat down here.

Cherry Mistmas to all *<(:-))> Richard
Group: S-Trains Message: 785 From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx Date: 12/22/1998
Subject: S-scale magazines
Before jumping into the Ritter-Snook-Armstrong debate about S-scale
magazines, I want to thank those who have helped me with info about
overhead-bunker refrigerator cars and 36-foot box cars. Also to wish
everyone happy holidays.
Now, as to the question before the assembly: Which S-scale magazine
has the widest outreach?
First of all, to paraphrase Richard Snook, "WARNING. Sure to offend
some. Not kidding."
Ritter's circulation estimates (5,000 plus for S-Gaugian, about 1,500 for
NASG Dispatch) are consistent with those I arrived at through my own research a
couple of years ago.
For S/Sn3 Modelling Guide I estimate half the S-Gaugian total, max. Say
about 2.500.
So I agree with Ritter that S Gaugian has by far the widest reach in terms
of sheer numbers printed and sold.
I take leave, however, to make the argument that the circulation figures
by themselves convey a misleading message.
S Gaugian has the widest "reach" only if it is making the strongest effort
to find new subscribers among the thousands who do not already subscribe.
In my opinion all three of the publications under discussion have the same
flaw.
The Dispatch, for instance, goes almost exclusively to NASG members
(naturally, since it is a membership newsletter), and while NASG does make
an ongoing effort to attract new members, the effort must realistically be
considered for the most part unsuccessful.
S Gaugian obviously reaches many S-scalers who are not members of NASG,
but if the publisher is conducting a campaign to reach more such there is no
evidence of it that I can see.
Ditto S/Sn3 Modelling Guide.
If I were publishing either one I would be keeping a list of all the
non-subscribing S-scalers I could find, so I could send each of them a free
copy and a subscription blank every few months. A percentage of the freebie
recipients would become paid subscribers every time. I know. I've done this.
The hard part is to maintain interest, and new subscribers aren't going
to do me much good unless they renew at the end of the year. What was that
about Man's reach exceeding his grasp?
Joe Pereira

email: sigma@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 786 From: Richard Snook Date: 12/22/1998
Subject: Mag choice!!
Christmas Greetings

Not to compound my error of not communicating clearly my question regarding magazines, my query was of the nature of which mag might offer a non AF/HiRailer the best value in terms of content and inclinations.( or whether it is worth getting both) I already get Dispatch so that isn't in the equation. I can see that my question may be looked upon as having to do with the subject of gaining "S" audience for "whatever" SIG, but it was meant to ask of a separate issue....my wife looks at me sideways every time I bring home "another" mag so I thought I better choose wisely...that is all!!!

Having said that,it (the issue of GROWING the interest in our scale) is an interesting train of thought. One I imagine has beeen visited upon many times, and certainly deserves to be constantly revisited if the health of this following is to be maintained.

Other than diseminating information about a SIG within the ranks of "S" I would think the greatest mileage is to be had with more exposure in the mainstream mags...something I have noticed actually happening to a degree. I also get the impression the "mainstream" are a bit more receptive to "S" articles, especially if it can be seen to have a multi-scale benefit.

Again depending on who's numbers you can believe ( I have had estimations of anywhere between 5000 to 8500 for "S" and invite confirmations of any!!) and given "0" numbers again ??? 7500-12000, our developement as a Scale can only really go forward if we can snare the newbies at train shows or show dissatisfied practioners in other scales the error of their ways and lead them to the promised scale.

If there are and I'm guestimating here...about 200-250 thousand model railroaders out there, then think of the difference to "S" if we could grab an extra 1-2% of the pie, or indeed add it to the pie (even better) that's a lot of people and a lot of enthusiasm, might just be enough to tip a few more manufacturers this way, or encourage the existing ones to make bit more. Hate to say it but it all comes down to bums on seats and money in the pocket.

Any how Jingle Bells to you all *<(:-))> Richard
Group: S-Trains Message: 787 From: James R. Schiele Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Flyer Christmas Car
Does anybody have any information in the "L" Flyer Christmas car.
Jim Schiele
TCA 83-19217
Group: S-Trains Message: 788 From: alice beachy Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Merry Christmas
Just wanted to take this opportunity to wish everyone a most blessed
Christmas. I have enjoyed reading everyone's comments over the past
few months, even the information on scale. I would especially like to
thank Paul for making this forum available to all of us.

I will be holidaying with my family next week in New York City. The
family wants to see some shows and I plan to go to the Citicorp Center
to see their annual Christmas Train layout. We will be staying at Fifth
Avenue and East 40th St. Anyone know of hobby shops or other train
sights, toy or prototype, within a few minutes walk or subway ride?
Group: S-Trains Message: 789 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 12/17/1998
Subject: hot 371
I had one too. Great looker, quasi good runner, and it seemed to get hot.
They all get warm. Unfortunately diassembling, cleaning, replacing brushes
and thrust plates, centering the armature, lubricating, etc, produced only
small gains. Eventually, I found the thing that made a big difference was
swapping out the chassis with a later model version (complete with bushings
which the originals do not have). Now it's smooth (even at relatively slow
speeds), powerful, fast (will filp on curves at full speed), and cool. The
only "loss" was some of its originality - - wheels are gray not brass, and
the flanges are slightly taller. But it runs great. Rebushing the
original is another alternative, but I haven't any experience with that. A
replacement chassis sells for $18-22, depending on who you shop from and
whether or not you get dealers' discount. You will need to tap the holes
for the yoke screws and small screws for holding down bearing retainers
etc, but they're std thread types - - I think 6X32, and 4X40, but would
need to check at home. Good luck. The fun in 'em, is in run'n 'em.
Group: S-Trains Message: 790 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 12/17/1998
Subject: "L"-cheapo's
Which models are they selling for $140 (OK, $139.95)? Geeps, F-units,
PA's? I get CTT, but don't have a copy with me at work. Thanks.
Group: S-Trains Message: 791 From: Roger Petrella Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: AF knuckle coupler problems
I'm having a problem with some of my AF cars with knuckle couplers. The
coupler randomly opens up leaving the rest of the train behind to get
rammed from behind. I have checked the heights and nothing seems to be
hitting the coupler bar. Coupler opens and closes fine, just
periodically opens when it isn't supposed to open. Doesn't seem to
matter as to the location these cars in the lineup so I don't think it
has anything to do with too much weight pulling on the coupler. Does
anyone know how to fix these quirky couplers (other than totally
replacing them)?

Roger Petrella
Franktown, CO

By the way, have my AM Southern Crescent set running around the
Christmas tree. Works great and love the whistle and bell sounds, but
still like my Flyer stuff better.
Group: S-Trains Message: 792 From: Theodore Fabian Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Re: AF knuckle coupler problems
At 08:46 AM 12/23/98 -0700, Roger Petrella wrote:
>From: Roger Petrella <rogerpjr@...>
>
>I'm having a problem with some of my AF cars with knuckle couplers. The
>coupler randomly opens up leaving the rest of the train behind to get
>rammed from behind. I have checked the heights and nothing seems to be
>hitting the coupler bar. Coupler opens and closes fine, just
>periodically opens when it isn't supposed to open. Doesn't seem to
>matter as to the location these cars in the lineup so I don't think it
>has anything to do with too much weight pulling on the coupler. Does
>anyone know how to fix these quirky couplers (other than totally
>replacing them)?
>


I had similar problems when I tried to run my set for the first time last
weekend.. I'm interested in specific ideas / recommendations you might
have/get..

thanks,


Ted



---------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks,
Ted Fabian NASA Lewis Research Center
Cleveland, Ohio 44135

tfabian@...
theodore.fabian@...
http://zeta.lerc.nasa.gov/ted.htm

get my pgp public key at

http://pgpkeys.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x6EEB86CD

Disclaimer: My opinions are My Own, Not NASA's....
---------------------------------------------------------------
Group: S-Trains Message: 793 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: THE MODULE CONCEPT
Our club, the North Penn S Gaugers, are in the middle of a module
building project. We are following as closely as possible the standards
produced by the NASG which are available from Ted Larson. The concept is
that if the standards are followed then several clubs can join their
modules together for a large operation. Unlike HO and N scales there are
too many track weights or heights available in "S" gauge to make this a
universal project. True scale track (Proto 64 operators may differ with
this) is code 100 and scale operators prefer to build and operate on
this basis. Some clubs use code 125 by S-Helper Service. Other clubs use
code 148 by American Models. The difference in track type can be made up
in the bridge track that joins each module.

HO and N clubs sometimes join modules at a convention for the public to
view. At present "S" conventions are not open to the public so clubs
usually set up their own modules for display and operation.

Staying on NASG track, Glenn
Group: S-Trains Message: 794 From: HSage3@xxx.xxx Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Re: Mag choice!!
In a message dated 12/23/98 4:44:41 AM EST, Richard Snook writes:

<< If there are and I'm guestimating here...about 200-250 thousand model
railroaders out there, then think of the difference to "S" ......... >>

If my memory is correct, MODEL RAILROADER magazine has a circulation of
approx. 225,000 - 250,000 so that estimate might even be a little low.

Harry Sage
Group: S-Trains Message: 795 From: JOHN EICHMANN Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Post Office Paint Schemes
In response to Tom Davis' inquiry about Post Office collection box and vehicle paint schemes, I asked the USPS historian, and today received the wonderfully detailed response below. It doesn't make any difference WHAT era you're modeling, as this response covers them all.
Merry Christmas, Everybody!

John Eichmann, Coordinator
Rocky Mountain Hi-Railers
Boise, Idaho
jeichmann@...

>>> MEGAERA AUSMAN <MAUSMAN@...> 12/23/98 10:34am >>>

Dear Mr. Eichmann:

I thought you might like to see the two short histories that follow in
reponse to your inquiry. Breifly, the Post Office Department went to
red, white, and blue vehicles in 1954, and red, white, and blue
collection boxes in 1955; more details follow.

Please let me know if I can be of further assistance.

Megaera Ausman
Historian
USPS


COLLECTION BOX COLOR SCHEMES

Street letter boxes have been painted a number of different colors by
the Postal Service over the years, but the exact record of their
colors since their introduction in the 1850s to around the end of the
19th century has not been positively determined.

A reference to the color of collection boxes in this period is found
in The Story of the Post Office (1889), by W.B. Jones, which states:

"There are over 800 street letter boxes from collections are made by
the Boston [post] office and its sub-stations. To people who reside
within this postal district it is well known that some of these boxes
are painted red and others green. The red boxes are the most
important ones, and they are visited every hour by the carriers." (page
79)

It is not known whether the above applied only to boxes in Boston or
to other cities across the nation as well.

Another reference, in a report of Fourth Assistant Postmaster General
J. L. Bristow on the investigation of certain divisions of the Post
Office Department, dated October 24, 1903, in the Congressional Serial
Set (ex. doc. 383, #4674), made the following comments on the colors
of collection boxes:

"The color of the paint of the street letter boxes has been changed
from time to time according to the taste of the administrative
officers of the Department. Years ago it was dark green, afterwards
vermilion red . . . In 1897 [A. W.] Machen [General Superintendent of
the Free-Delivery System] adopted the aluminum color, and also changed
the method of painting . . . [the] posts [were] to be painted green,
boxes aluminum bronze."

Beginning by at least 1909, collection boxes were painted green. On
February 27, 1913, however, Postmaster General Frank H. Hitchcock
ordered that collection boxes be painted "either vermilion or
coach-red." Because of complaints from fire departments, city
councils, and the public, who believed the color caused confusion with
red fire boxes and equipment, the order was rescinded by Postmaster
General Albert S. Burleson on May 10, 1913, and the boxes were painted
green as before.

Following World War I, the War Department turned over to the Post
Office Department a supply of surplus olive drab paint, which soon
became the standardized color for collection boxes and remained in use
until 1955.

On July 4, 1955, Postmaster General Arthur Summerfield announced that
street collection boxes would be painted red, white, and blue in order
to help customers in locating the boxes, to help differentiate between
storage boxes (which are still painted in the olive drab color), and
to utilize a more long-lasting paint combination. The specifications
for this color scheme were printed in the Postal Bulletin, dated
August 9, 1955.

At Postal Reorganization in 1970, the Postal Service announced the
adoption of a new color scheme for collection boxes, which called for
painting them a solid, deep blue. The new scheme also called for
reflective decals of the new Postal Service logo to be attached to the
mail boxes. This color scheme is still used today, with the
substitution of the newest Postal Service logo, the "sonic eagle" in
white on a blue background, which was adopted in 1993.



VEHICLES: COLOR SCHEMES USED BY THE POSTAL SERVICE


The earliest known record of a color scheme for postal vehicles is an
order of Postmaster General Frank H. Hitchcock dated February 6, 1913,
instructing postmasters at free delivery offices to paint vehicles and
equipment used in the delivery and collection of mail a vermilion red.

On October 31, 1913, however, Postmaster General Albert S. Burleson
ordered that all vehicles in the postal service, except those in the
screen wagon service, be painted as follows: Body a medium coach
green; running gear a cardinal red; and striping black.

According to "Specifications for Vehicles Used in [the] Collection and
Delivery Service," dated May 1, 1917, however, all vehicles were to be
painted with the running gears and screens cardinal red with black
stripes; the sign panels or fields for inscriptions white with gold
lettering; and the body blue. The exact date that the above color
scheme was adopted is not known.

About 1919, the War Department turned over to the Post Office
Department a large supply of surplus olive drab paint, which was used
to paint postal vehicles. By 1921, the color scheme had been
standardized to feature an olive drab body, a cream stripe at roughly
mid-height and approximately six inches wide, and black fenders,
engine section, running gear, and roof. On later vehicles, only the
running gear and fenders were painted black.

The Post Office Department approved the red, white, and blue color
combination for mail trucks in 1954. In addition to following trends
towards brighter colors on commercial vehicles, the new color scheme
was adopted for other practical reasons. The white color used on the
top of trucks reflected the sun, and by reducing heat, increased the
driver's comfort; the luminous stripe of red paint (or reflective red
tape) through the center of the truck increased its visibility at
night and provided greater safety; and the blue used in the lower body
and chassis minimized unsightly road film.

In 1970, the Postal Service continued the above color scheme for
trucks, painting the top half white and the bottom half blue, but
reduced the width of the reflective red stripe decal separating the
two colors.

In 1979, a new scheme of painting vehicles was adopted by the Postal
Service. This "new look" features a solid white body with a red,
white, and blue stripe (either reflective or non-reflective tape)
across the beltline of the vehicle (from rear of hood catch assembly
to lower hood line).
Group: S-Trains Message: 796 From: Gregg Mummert Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Layouts, etc
If you have time, check out the All Aboard Railroad, outside of
Lancaster, PA - 1952 Landis Valley Road - 717-392-1568. Call for hours.
Bob Board opens his Flyer layout to the public from Thanksgiving to New
Years. It is super! He runs alot of L-AF, American Models, and SHS,
but his Flyer collection is along the walls. The layout has alot of
Gilbert accessories.



Gregg Mummert
gmummert@...
S Gauge - the only way to Fly(er)!
Group: S-Trains Message: 797 From: Chuck Smith Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Re: AF knuckle coupler problems
Roger Petrella wrote:
>
> From: Roger Petrella <rogerpjr@...>
>
> I'm having a problem with some of my AF cars with knuckle couplers. The
> coupler randomly opens up leaving the rest of the train behind to get
> rammed from behind. I have checked the heights and nothing seems to be
> hitting the coupler bar. Coupler opens and closes fine, just
> periodically opens when it isn't supposed to open. Doesn't seem to
> matter as to the location these cars in the lineup so I don't think it
> has anything to do with too much weight pulling on the coupler. Does
> anyone know how to fix these quirky couplers (other than totally
> replacing them)?
>
> Roger Petrella
> Franktown, CO
>
> By the way, have my AM Southern Crescent set running around the
> Christmas tree. Works great and love the whistle and bell sounds, but
> still like my Flyer stuff better.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info - http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm
This is a problem I have encountered with Lionel but not AC Gilbert
Flyer. One subtle thing that is a getcha is if the knuckle weight
kisses a switch frog. However, I have also seen it happen with a Lionel
AF car that I know was set high enough to avoid that. I think I
temporaily solved the problem by turning the car around. What I'm
really saying is I never really solved the problem, so if anyone has any
ideas please sing out.
--
"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers and the
S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith
Group: S-Trains Message: 798 From: Chuck Smith Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Re: Modules???
LARSPAINTR@... wrote:
>
> From: LARSPAINTR@...
>
> Could someone eleborate on the module concept for S ga?
> I had constructed 2 as a switching layout in HO some years ago, 16 x 48
> inches and connect end to end the long way. Integral pulse power pac.
> Switches all manual.
> 1 x 3 wood frame with 1" styrofoam for the infill. EZ to sculpt with Xacto
> for drainage ditches etc, Then etch with a bit of lacquer thinner for
> roughness.
> CUrious as to how far and much this has gone in S.
> thanx
> L.
See Paul York's home page for a reference to SMod standards at
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/.
You can also get Standards in hard copy form from Ted Larson whose email
address is on my page addressed below.
--
"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers and the
S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith
Group: S-Trains Message: 799 From: Roger Hinds Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Reverse units
Hello Gang;

In regards to e-units. After cleaning, lube with graphite powder.
Never use oil in the reverse units. (or couplers either for that
matter).
Eventualy oil will get thick and gum up the works.

Roger
Group: S-Trains Message: 800 From: Roger Hinds Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Loners
Just thought the group would like to know.

I get a lot of model railroaders through my place. A lot of "S" guagers.
A large percentage of them do not get any RR magazines nor belong to an
club. Some of them are surprised to find out there are magazines and
clubs in this hobby.

I tell them to get a Magazine and check out the classified adds for
hobby shops and ask about clubs in their area.

Another interesting note: I noticed a different type of clientel
attending model train shows. A lot of more women (by themselves). Girls
running trains. And I get a feel of other kinds of people I haven't seen
before. Anyone else notice this?


Roger
Group: S-Trains Message: 801 From: John Foley Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Happy Holidays
Hi Folks
Juast a short note to say HAPPY HOLIDAYS AND A HAPPY NEW YEAR
to everyone on the S-List

John Foley
Group: S-Trains Message: 802 From: Tom Hutton Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Re: Loners
Well, Roger, in the Kansas City area I can tell you that people often see me
with my two blonde-haired blue-eyed daughters (calm down, guys, they're 8
and 5) in tow at train shows.
Are they interested in trains? Well, I think so, but mostly I think my kids
are like a lot of kids who have two working parents. Mine will do almost
anything to be around a parent, even if it means going to things they might
not have thought of doing themselves.
And when Mom is an accountant (which makes me a tax season widower), my
kids know that "happy time" with Dad means a train show, a visit to the
local hobby stores, or a trip to grandma's whose ranch style house with a
full-length dry basement is unbeatable for setting up a train or two.
I know this is a train list-serve, not a parenting one, but for those of you
with kids, I highly recommend getting them involved in our hobby be they
boys or girls!
Happy holidays to all from Middle America.



-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Hinds <cofa@...>
To: American Flyer forum <S-trains@onelist.com>
Date: Wednesday, December 23, 1998 2:19 PM
Subject: [S-Trains] Loners


>From: Roger Hinds <cofa@...>
>
>Just thought the group would like to know.
>
>I get a lot of model railroaders through my place. A lot of "S" guagers.
>A large percentage of them do not get any RR magazines nor belong to an
>club. Some of them are surprised to find out there are magazines and
>clubs in this hobby.
>
>I tell them to get a Magazine and check out the classified adds for
>hobby shops and ask about clubs in their area.
>
>Another interesting note: I noticed a different type of clientel
>attending model train shows. A lot of more women (by themselves). Girls
>running trains. And I get a feel of other kinds of people I haven't seen
>before. Anyone else notice this?
>
>
>Roger
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info -
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm
Group: S-Trains Message: 803 From: Richard Snook Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Rudolf's ramblings...
Thankyou to all for some very informative, intersting and occassionally lively discussion. I value it immensely...aren't too many fellow North American Prototype "S" scalers in this part of the world ( though I have found a couple thanks to this list).

I'm off for two weeks of R & R ( thats Rail and Roading) , some real fun time with the kids and an attempt to rediscover the back yard..I know its there somewhere...it came with the house.

A recent posting by Tom Hutton really brings a few thought into focus....as always the future growth of any enjoyment lies with the youth of today...how many of us started our steel line journey with a train set at christmas or watching the trains go round at an exhibition. I know I did. Tom's observations about the kids is pretty well spot on, mine can't wait for the "Christmas Train " around the tree....and next year it will be an "S" train !!!...and they're getting pretty excited that Dad is building "trainS" in the garage (at last) and they are only 3 1/2 and 5...( I hope to bring them up correctly....with "S")..but if a HO trainset is what they want or if they get a hankering for "G" or other then great....then they too can start to enjoy the greatest hobby and if they want to share with Dad then what more could a parent wish for. Maybe some of their freinds might get to enjoy coming to the "train-nut's" house and watching the trains.

As my son starts school next year (already , can't believe it ) if there is a possibility of introducing some sort of project that the kids could participate in and learn new skills with, then I'm happy to give this a go...if you can provide kids with something relevant and not too difficult, and of course immensely ENJOYABLE (read FUN ) then we have them for life...just like us.

Any how seems like a limitless pool of future modellers out there and they might as well become "S" modellers (its easier and more tactile for them to play with!!)...So at this time of year...if you are still stuck for an idea for a present , maybe a TRAIN orientated gift is the go.

and so ...Happy Christmas to all, and to all, a Good Night................(well actually its nearly 10 O'clock int he morning Christmas Eve here, but probably night where you are.)

Cheerio and bye for now *<(:-))> Richard
Group: S-Trains Message: 804 From: Paul Yorke Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Another DB Update
I added a page with the e-mail address of the people that gave me
permission to publish theirs.
I encrypted them with some extra test. (example mime appears as
yoXXXrke@...) Now to a human
this looks like a very weak encryption. But to a netbot, that is just
out there looking for 'Mailto' and or '@' it should prevent them from
successfully using our names to offer us 'get rich quick' or 'free cable
tv'.

So far....
Survey response is up to 48, Thanks to all that are participating.
Also thanks to those who are attempting to fill out the survey but for
some unknown reasons are unable.
Old browsers is one of the most common problems. I suggest you update.
It's free.
Another problem is folks that don't use browser mail, there mail is a
separate program.
For browser mail (my form uses a 'Mailto' statement) to work it needs to
know where your mail server.
This type of info is usually on your access providers 'support' page.



--
Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl.
American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)
Group: S-Trains Message: 805 From: Dennis Back Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Link Coupler Problem
While we are talking about couplers...some of my old LINK couplers are
stiff...that is...they do not move freely. Tried spraying contact
cleaner on them with little results. I have gotten to the point of
connecting the cars with a rubber band (the shame of it all)!!!

Any suggestions would be welcome.

Happy Holidays,
Dennis Back
Miami, Fl.
Group: S-Trains Message: 806 From: LEAHY RUTH A Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Collector
I recently acquired some 1970s issues of " The Collector". Does this
publication still exist? It appears to be A.F. oriented.

Mike Leahy
Group: S-Trains Message: 807 From: Chas Cacioppo Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Trainsets and Xmas Trains...
To play off Richard Snooks' post....

There are two features which might help the last minute gift-giver...

http://modelrailroad.miningco.com/library/weekly/aa122198.htm Holiday
Trainsets
http://modelrailroad.miningco.com/library/weekly/aa120998.htm Holiday Train
Memories.

If you know of an 'S' scale box set, I would like to know about it.

Thanks

Charlie Cacioppo - modelrailroad.guide@...
Your MiningCo. Guide to Model Railroading
http://modelrailroad.miningco.com
MiningCo Homepage http://home.miningco.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 808 From: mhrreast@juno.com Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Trackwork & China
Regarding the tie spacing questions, I strongly recommend
Paul Mallery's "Trackwork Handbook". It is a wonderful
source of prototype information on roadbed, switches,
trackwork, crossings, layout wiring, trackside scenery,
wheels and couplers, clearance diagrams, and switch
templates (including tie lengths).

I just returned from a business trip that included mainland
China. The molding and moldmaking plant that I visited was
no different from any US plant, except that it had a dormitory
for the many workers who came from distant parts of China
for employment. Don T. mentioned the many container
trucks on the highway. Hong-Kong is the shipping port
for most of southeast China. Thus the road from Shenzhen
into Hong-Kong is the small end of a huge funnel of container
traffic. Empties in, loads out!

Ted Larson
Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division
2001 - First year of the next millenium

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Group: S-Trains Message: 809 From: Chas Cacioppo Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Model Railroad Chat on Miningco Now
You will need a Java enabled browser....

A model railroad chat in progress now until 10:30 ET.
http://modelrailroad.miningco.com/mpchat.htm


Charlie Cacioppo - modelrailroad.guide@...
Your MiningCo. Guide to Model Railroading
http://modelrailroad.miningco.com
MiningCo Homepage http://home.miningco.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 810 From: David Dewey Date: 12/23/1998
Subject: Re: Link Coupler Problem
Three problems cause link coupler 'stiffness' (none of them involve
Viagra!). 1) Rust on pin. 2) The filler material used in the plastic exudes
to surface (the White deposit so often found on AC products!) 3) plastic
shrinkage (partially attributed to the filler too!).
A 'fix' that often works is to heat the coupler, and the pin w/ a hair
dryer, and work the coupler up and down while it cools. Sometimes you have
to wiggle it around too. (but not too much!) Wipe off the surface while it's
warm, you can get rid of most of the white deposits too. I have used a
soldering iron on the pin to melt the plastic a bit to get it free on the
pin, if the hair dryer trick doesn't work (Hair dryer trick sometimes takes
a few 'treatments'---the iron is a 'last resort' thing)
Merry Christmas to all!
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 811 From: John Foley Date: 12/24/1998
Subject: New S brass
Hi Folks
To all fans of the Pennsy, I have been speaking to a brass model
company who are thinking of doing something in S. What they are thinking for
their first offering is the pennsy J1 2-10-4 and a Q2 4-4-6-4. so here's what
I need. Feed back, feed back and more feed back. Only two questions what would
you think you would spend on these two, and which one or do you want both. I
will forward info on to this manufacture. So talk with you S friends and get
back to me. maybe this can happen in 99. Fax,phone,e-mail or letter will be
OK.

John Foley
164 W. Railroad St.
Pottsville Pa. 17901
Phone/fax 717 622-3413
e-mail foley164@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 812 From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx Date: 12/24/1998
Subject: 3-in-one oil
Does anyone know if 3-in-one oil is safe on plastic? I used it with my first
AF train set in the early 1950's, but is it safe with the new plastics? Thank
you, Tom
Group: S-Trains Message: 813 From: PatnDave Date: 12/24/1998
Subject: Drawing Roller Bearing Truck
HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO ALL!
About a month ago there was some active discussion about a wish list for S
scale concerning ; track, locomotives, rolling stock and ROLLER BEARING
TRUCKS with
ROTATING BEARING CAPS. I posted a rather lengthy in-depth description of my
idea as to how this might be achieved and still have good roll-ability. Just
then both lists (Proto and S-trains) seemed to go absolutely dormant
(Thanksgiving?) so I don't know if it was ever read or not as there were no
replies. So I recently converted my pencil sketches to Cadrail and sent the
drawing VIA e-mail w/attachment to our ACE WebMaster Paul Yorke.
Thanks to Paul's efforts, you can view my drawing at:

http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/proto/ROLBGTK4a.gif

I think the general idea would work, take a look and give me your thoughts
and comments. I'm also considering sending hard copies to various S
manufacturers for their evaluation.

Merry Christmas (eve) and happy New year to you all!

Dave
Group: S-Trains Message: 814 From: PortLines@xxx.xxx Date: 12/24/1998
Subject: Re: "The Collector"
<<<I recently acquired some 1970s issues of " The Collector". Does this

publication still exist? It appears to be A.F. oriented.

>>>
Yes, and No........
It is the publication of the Am Flyer Collectors Club..........tends to focus
most on prewar AF, only because that's what most of his authors' submissions
are about. But it DOES include S-gauge articles whenever possible.
BUT, the most-recent issue (arrived this week) is temporarily the
last........Frank (Hare), the publisher and editor, is having serious vision
problems. He has had to suspend publication for the time being.....if not
permanently.
We all wish him well, and hope things work out for him.
Doug
Group: S-Trains Message: 815 From: PortLines@xxx.xxx Date: 12/24/1998
Subject: Re: Xmas gondola
<<<Does anybody have any information in the "L" Flyer Christmas car.>>>
Delivered..........all arrived during the past 2 weeks.
We have ONE car left from our entire order, if anyone is interested.
MC/VISA/DISCOVER/AMEX accepted.
Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)
Port Lines Hobby Supply
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Port Lines @ aol.com http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 816 From: Wayne Broadhead Date: 12/24/1998
Subject: "The Collector"
Message: 20
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 17:21:53 -0700 (MST)
From: LEAHY RUTH A <Ruth.Leahy@...>
Subject: Collector

I recently acquired some 1970s issues of " The Collector". Does this
publication still exist? It appears to be A.F. oriented.

Mike Leahy


How can I get this magazine? I would like to subscribe to a magazine that
was heavy into American Flyer. I have noticed that S-Guagain over the
years is now mostly Scale products for sale and Scale stories.

They will soon have to change their name to "S-Scaleian".

Wayne
Group: S-Trains Message: 817 From: Wayne Broadhead Date: 12/24/1998
Subject: Merry Christmas
Merry Christmas to all the members of the S trains list. I want to thank
so many of you who have helped me with problems and participated with me in
the enjoyment of this hobby.

Have an AMERICAN FLYER CHRISTMAS!!!!!

Wayne
Group: S-Trains Message: 818 From: Bill Porter Date: 12/24/1998
Subject: Re: 3-in-one oil
TPDavis7@... wrote:
>
> From: TPDavis7@...
>
> Does anyone know if 3-in-one oil is safe on plastic? I used it with my first
> AF train set in the early 1950's, but is it safe with the new plastics? Thank
> you, Tom
>


Merry Christmas Tom,

I'd strongly recommend that you stay away from the 3-in-1 oil for
models. Most petroleum based products eat most flavors of styrene. I use
only the LaBelle lubricants for anything on my models. even the ones
that are probably safe with most lubes might spread the film to the
others. I bought a kit with light oil, grease, graphite and teflon
powders. There are applicators and hints. These things have been very
good and there has been no damage to plastics.

Bill Porter
Group: S-Trains Message: 819 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 12/24/1998
Subject: Merry Couplers
...and Christmas too! About 1:00 am this morning, my Dad and I finished
getting some lc and kc cars ready to for the kids to go with their renewed
302AC's (they came out great - - fast, strong, smooth and smoky) Christmas
presents (Santa's elves are pulling some serious OT). Out of that only one
coupler uncoupled unexpectedly, and that was the lc on a tender we hadn't
examined yet. Basically in either case, lc or kc, first inspect each truck
to make sure all four wheels ride level on the tracks - - bend to adjust.
Look for 1/32" clearance of the weight off the rail, adjust accordingly.
(Note: I've found the some couplers perform better with a little more,
others like to "cut it close", it just takes using each and trying
different settings, but 1/32" is a good start.) Also make sure each
coupler and its weight are level across the track (look at the car head on
from each end). With knuckles that stick I use a tiny drop (some would
disagree, I'll have to try the graphite powder technique) of very light oil
(Gunk SO) down the slot on top of the coupler (with the coupler closed) and
the hinge/spring. Wipe off any excess with a swatch of old cotton
undershirt. Links that don't work freely, I first try a good cleaning,
then CRC-5-56 (extremely thin penetrating fluid in a can, not WD40 - - that
leaves a varnish when it dries/gets old). Wipe dry. If still not loose, I
think I'll try David D's ideas of warming things up, but I've also found
that if the coupler won't pivot easily on its post, allow the post to
pivot with the coupler. To do that I grab the long end of the post with
pliers and twist (be careful not to bend up and down, just a rotational
twist) 'til it turns. Then at least the link moves and down, yet remains
secured to the tongue of the truck. Have a blessed Christmas, and joyous
New Year! Hope you've been good, and that Santa knows you like trains.
Group: S-Trains Message: 820 From: Ken Zieska Date: 12/24/1998
Subject: Locos
While I do have brass loco's, I am not in the market for a Pennsy loco.
If you can make it more versitile so that small runs for other roads
could be made, you would get interest out here. It does seem that
Pennsy, NYC, UP... brass sells and that is fine but it is not for me.
I also like brass cars when they are unique but that can also get
carried away IE the Southwind flatcar they are offering. The River
Raisin flatcar had class and "makes" a train as do the Milwaukee rib
side cars. This little shorty with double trucks doesn't do that for
me.
Ken
Group: S-Trains Message: 821 From: jim Date: 12/25/1998
Subject: Bachman On30 set
I just picked up a Bachman On30 Christmas village set, it is being
clearance priced out for $129.95 at the local Longs drug store. I was
thinking that I could convert it to standard "S" gauge. Has any one in
this group attempted this? The set is incredible, with allot of detail.
Did someone recommend Prestige Hobbies in Orange County CA, for S
gauge? I checked them out and they acted like I was from Mars when I
asked about S gauge or American Flyer.
It was 32 years ago today that I had received my first American
Flyer train set. It was the Pioneer All Aboard set. I still have the
Casey Jones engine and rolling stock that came with the set. It was the
last thing my dad had given me, he passed away later that day. I'm sure
this is one of the reasons I collect American Flyer trains. I hope
everyone has a Merry Christmas.
Thanks, Jim.
Group: S-Trains Message: 822 From: kelvin white Date: 12/25/1998
Subject: Doghouses on the C&NW
In message <36803F7E.C6F3C65A@...>, Ken Zieska
<mhrr@...> writes
>From: Ken Zieska <mhrr@...>
>
>Kelvin, The Northern Pacific used the doghouse. It provided shelter for
>the head end brakeman who had to go out on the cars and set brakes while
>traveling down grades. This way he didn't need to climb over the
>tender. The SOO had pretty wimpy grades and I suspect that they didn't
>need the additional braking. This is also why the SOO didn't order
>dynamic brakes in their diesels.

Hi Ken, & Merry Christmas.

Thanks for the above note. There is a good broadside photograph of NP
#1707 (a Mike)? complete with doghouse (on the switching duty on the NP
ore docks in Superior) in Wisconsin Rails - Vol.1.

Santa bought me 'C&NW in colour Vol.1' by Lloys Keyser (Morning Sun
Books) much to my surprise there are two photographs of C&NW Z class
(2-8-0 oilburner) # 1761 with a doghouse, and J-A class 2-8-2 #2503 also
with a doghouse. A quick check in Knudsden C&NW Steam Power reveals that
the C&NW J-4s (2-8-4) also carried doghouses.

I havn't found a Soo steamer with a doghouse yet but I'm looking....

Did Santa bring you anything interesting.....

Best wishes for the rest of the Holiday.
--
Kelvin White
Oxford England.
Group: S-Trains Message: 823 From: kelvin white Date: 12/25/1998
Subject: Re: Bachman On30 set
In message <36834FAC.A35904A@...>, jim <webmaster@...>
writes
>From: jim <webmaster@...>
>
> I just picked up a Bachman On30 Christmas village set, it is being
>clearance priced out for $129.95 at the local Longs drug store. I was
>thinking that I could convert it to standard "S" gauge. Has any one in
>this group attempted this? The set is incredible, with allot of detail.

Hi Jim

THe following is an article - I've just written for the latest American
S Scale Circle NL . It may be of interest.

Bachman On30 mogul
suitable for S scale?

The new Bachman On30 C&S mogul has created a lot of interest on the S-
trains Email discussion group, the following notes are from that list -
has anybody considered doing a S standard gauge conversion of the model?

In case you hadn�t realised an On3 model is about the same size as an S
standard gauge model, thus why not widen the gauge a little bit more,
rebuilt the cab, replace some of the fittings with S scale fittings and
have yourself a cheap S scale standard gauge steam locomotive.

A very good review of the model will be found in the January 1999 Model
Railroader pages 16 & 32. The set consists of three passenger cars and a
C&S 2-6-0, a circle of track + 110V transformer. Caboose Hobbies are
advertising the set @ $159.97 plus shipping. Grandt Line have reportedly
made a conversion kit of false side frames and longer axles to convert
to convert the locomotive from 16.5 mm to true On3 gauge.

As yet the Bachman On30 set is not available in UK models shops, but it
will be soon. The locomotive and passenger cars will be available in
Colorado & Southern, Pennsylvania RR and �Wonderland Express� paint
schemes. There are rumours of a 2-8-0 being the next model in this
range.

The vital statistics of the model 2-6-0 locomotive in S scale
dimensions are:

Pilot wheel diameter - 35"
Driver diameter - 53"
Driver Spacing 1&2 - 77", 2&3 - 74"
Total Driver Wheelbase - 12'-7"
Tender wheel diameter - 35"
Truck wheelbase - 5'-10"
Distance between truck centres - 11'-9"
Boiler Diam - 5� 11"

By way of comparison, I enclose reduced scale drawings of C&S #22 at
On2� against S scale drawings of a NYC 2-6-0 #798,
Green Bay & Western 2-6-0 #56,
Sylvania Central 4-6-0 # 103,
and Texas Pacific 4-6-0 #252.

(above only in the newsletter but it is worth while excercise to
undertake).

The only dimension that gives me a any real concern is the boiler diam,
a little fat
in relationship to the driving wheel diameter - but not too much.

Billy Wade in his review (S / Sn3 Modelling Guide Oct/Nov 98) of the
engine notes that the clearance between slide valves to the cylinder is
1.18" which may prove to be tight for S standard gauge. However as the
whole body is plastic, alteration work should not prove too difficult.

The On2� tender scale out at 9�9" wide by 26� long - it could be cut
down, to 21ft or so but it is not essential.

The S scale dimensions of the passenger cars are:

Car width - 10'
Truck wheelbase - 6'
Wheel diameter - 30"
End doors - 8' high, 29" wide
Body - 40', over buffers 47'4"

The cars are the right width for an S scale standard gauge car but are a
little high. From the quick checking I did, a lot of standard gauge
cars had sides about 8' high, and
are about 10' wide. So the cars might be able to be cut down in height
(or new sides made) for standard gauge. The length would make the car a
shortie in standard gauge. Splicing two cars together would be an
option, it would allow the end platforms to be of a proper length.
However as the MR review notes, compromises have been made with the
passenger cars, the windows have compressed in width, a lengthened car
will have too many windows.

Turning the passenger cars into roadside diners, MoW shacks etc would
probably satisfy the need to not throw them away!!

KW.


PS; Jim are you interested in getting me a ON30 set (Pennsy prefered)
at $130.00 + postage, you could keep the transformer and track. Please
let me know...
--
Kelvin White
16 Brogden Close
North Hinksey
Oxford OX2 9DS
England

Tel 01865 249897
Group: S-Trains Message: 824 From: Ken Zieska Date: 12/25/1998
Subject: Ford Tractors
Merry Christmas to all! Just a short note... I seem to recall someone
looking for Ford tractors. If that person would contact me directly and
tell me what models and how many, I have found a source to investigate
tomorrow. Post Christmas sales you know.
Ken Zieska
Group: S-Trains Message: 825 From: John Foley Date: 12/25/1998
Subject: New Brass Thanks
Hi Folks
I would like to thank the folks who replied about the New Brass.
I see that many would like to see some small steamers. To tell you the
truth I wouldn't mind that myself. So how about some USRA Steamers.
0-6-0, 0-8-0, 2-8-0 etc. I was also thinking painted and lighted and
the purchaser could apply his own decals. Let me know what you think.
John Foley
Eastern VP NASG
164 W. Railroad St.
Pottsville PA. 17901
Phone/Fax 717 622-3413
foley164@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 826 From: kelvin white Date: 12/25/1998
Subject: New small steam brass
In message <3.0.5.32.19981225115951.00794520@...>, John
Foley <foley164@...> writes
>From: John Foley <foley164@...>
>
>Hi Folks
> I would like to thank the folks who replied about the New Brass.
>I see that many would like to see some small steamers. To tell you the
>truth I wouldn't mind that myself. So how about some USRA Steamers.
>0-6-0, 0-8-0, 2-8-0 etc. I was also thinking painted and lighted and
>the purchaser could apply his own decals. Let me know what you think.
> John Foley
>
Hi John

On the button!!

USRA 0-6-0 which were very similar to the C&NW M2 class - indeed I think
the North Western had some ex USRA switchers. Again the consolidation
would be wonderful.

If we are getting into railroad specific classes then the C&NW R-1 ten
wheeler - put me down for three straight away. THe R-1s were such a
useful engine and were found all over Northern Wi and the Michigan U.P.

I know Jettie tried a USRA 0-6-0 about 6-7 years ago - alas it didn't
fly; but if it was offered as Hi Rail and Scale (subject to the Hi-Rail
flanges not compromising the wheelbase dims), it could be a go-er this
time.

Whilst I'm heavily into 1990's shortline modelling, the other era that
has very strong appeal is the end of steam - October 1954 to be precise,
guess who was born then!! good as any date to model.

Let me know how your small steam thoughts develop you have my support
and I'll back it up with $s.
--
Kelvin White
Oxford England
Group: S-Trains Message: 827 From: Daniel Neumayer Date: 12/25/1998
Subject: Re: New Brass Thanks
>From: John Foley <foley164@...>
>
>Hi Folks
> I would like to thank the folks who replied about the New Brass.
>I see that many would like to see some small steamers. To tell you the
>truth I wouldn't mind that myself. So how about some USRA Steamers.
>0-6-0, 0-8-0, 2-8-0 etc. I was also thinking painted and lighted and
>the purchaser could apply his own decals. Let me know what you think.
> John Foley
> Eastern VP NASG
> 164 W. Railroad St.
> Pottsville PA. 17901
> Phone/Fax 717 622-3413
> foley164@...
>

I'm new hear, so there may be something I don't understand. Why would the
USRA steamers be considered when Southwind makes them now?

Speaking of small locos, Southwind was going to make an atlantic (I'm not
sure if they will) but it would require 40" radius curves. I have talked to
Jettie and understand his reasoning, but still, it seems to me that an
Atlantic for smaller radii ought to be possible.

Happy Holidays to Everyone!
Daniel
Group: S-Trains Message: 828 From: Daniel Neumayer Date: 12/25/1998
Subject: L-AF Dummy Diesels, smooth rolling?
My newest acquisition is the Lionel AF MP passenger set, A-B-A and 6 cars.
It actually runs, which is unusual for trains from a local auction house.
It clearly is in mint condition - the wheels have clearly never contacted
rails. But there are two problems:

First the powered unit. I have lubed everything, but when I turn the motor
by hand, you can feel a "bump" as each tooth of the gear engages
disengages. This is true of both motors. Is this common in the Lionel AF?
It runs, but at slow speed it runs in a stutter motion. Any advice?

The other problem is the dummy units. Their is a lot of rolling resistance,
too much for the powered unit to handle. I have oiled the axles according
to instructions, but still as amazing amount of resistance. Any advice here?

Thanks, Daniel
Group: S-Trains Message: 829 From: kelvin white Date: 12/25/1998
Subject: Re: New Brass Thanks
In message <v04003a09b2a980a11e7f@[206.170.3.234]>, Daniel Neumayer
<Daniel@...> writes
>> foley164@...
>>
>
>I'm new hear, so there may be something I don't understand. Why would the
>USRA steamers be considered when Southwind makes them now?

Unless something has happened after the last Newsletter I received from
Jettie, Southwind do not produce a USRA 0-6-0, 0-8-0 or 2-8-0.

Overland produced a USRA 0-8-0, and light 2-8-2 in 1985 and a USRA light
4-6-2 in 1990. However try getting hold of one these now. There is a
good list of previously produced brass in the June 92 issue of the NASG
Bulletin.
>
>Speaking of small locos, Southwind was going to make an atlantic (I'm not
>sure if they will) but it would require 40" radius curves. I have talked to
>Jettie and understand his reasoning, but still, it seems to me that an
>Atlantic for smaller radii ought to be possible.

My understanding is that a SP Harriman Atlantic is in production
complete with those strange tenders - not much good if you model the
C&NW !!
>
>Happy Holidays to Everyone!
>
Seconded
--
Kelvin White
Oxford England
Group: S-Trains Message: 830 From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx Date: 12/25/1998
Subject: S Gaugian
I was astounded at the report that S Gaugian is mostly
scale. For years, it was mostly AF with very little
for the scale modeler. Someone else recently
reported that it is still mostly AF and hi-rail.
Since I don't have a pile of them to look at,
I'm curious; what do other people think
that its current content is?

Ted Larson
Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division
2001 - First year of the next millenium

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Group: S-Trains Message: 831 From: Bill Porter Date: 12/25/1998
Subject: S-Gaugian
Hi Folks,

Here is another opinion - common items where I come from. S Gaugian
seems to be pretty even handed. They have columns for scale and hi-rail.
Advertisments for scale and hi-rail. Editorial content varies depending
on what the authors submit. That means that some issues may lean more
one way and the next issue lean a little the other. My interest is
primarily scale, but, there is always something of interest in the
articles based on other preferences. Since a hi-rail layout may have
extremely 'scale' scenery and structures and since a scale layout may
feature Plasticville or Ertl or whatever (converted or not), I find it
hard to fault S Gaugian as unappealing.

Great Zot itS,
Bill Porter
Group: S-Trains Message: 832 From: Skip Mersereau Date: 12/26/1998
Subject: Re: [Proto64] [S-Trains] New small steam brass
Kelvin:

Curious about your 1990's thrust as that is the era I am modelling myself. I
am "into shortline railroading" here and have based my layout on the
interchange of two Class 1 roads with a local shortline. My home road
shortline is based on the local Maryland Midland which ran RS-3's in the
mid-1980's, then F7's in the late 1980's and now runs GP9's and GP38-2's. Of
course, expansion of the theme and employment of a actual shortline
right-of-way I prefer make it all work.

I have been collecting equipment down both paths: steam and contemporary
diesel. I have recently decided that the contemporary diesel is easier to
reach a satisfying result because diesels are less road specific (USRA ideal
by design) than steam. Not a fan of UP/SP or NYC and PRR - or at least as a
first choice, and not a narrow gauge fan either, I find that steam and small
steam at that of the MA&PA variety (I prefer many of the other eastern roads
to this venerable classic but it represents a good and well-known type)
unlikely to get done. So 100% diesel it is. And in a way the rebirth of
shortlines running 1st and 2nd generation power with the emergence of
super-powered Class 1's is analogous to the 1950's contrast in steam power
plants between shortlines and mainlines.

Love to hear about your interests.

Skip Mersereau

kelvin white wrote:

> From: kelvin white <kelvin@...>
>
> In message <3.0.5.32.19981225115951.00794520@...>, John
> Foley <foley164@...> writes
> >From: John Foley <foley164@...>
> >
> >Hi Folks
> > I would like to thank the folks who replied about the New Brass.
> >I see that many would like to see some small steamers. To tell you the
> >truth I wouldn't mind that myself. So how about some USRA Steamers.
> >0-6-0, 0-8-0, 2-8-0 etc. I was also thinking painted and lighted and
> >the purchaser could apply his own decals. Let me know what you think.
> > John Foley
> >
> Hi John
>
> On the button!!
>
> USRA 0-6-0 which were very similar to the C&NW M2 class - indeed I think
> the North Western had some ex USRA switchers. Again the consolidation
> would be wonderful.
>
> If we are getting into railroad specific classes then the C&NW R-1 ten
> wheeler - put me down for three straight away. THe R-1s were such a
> useful engine and were found all over Northern Wi and the Michigan U.P.
>
> I know Jettie tried a USRA 0-6-0 about 6-7 years ago - alas it didn't
> fly; but if it was offered as Hi Rail and Scale (subject to the Hi-Rail
> flanges not compromising the wheelbase dims), it could be a go-er this
> time.
>
> Whilst I'm heavily into 1990's shortline modelling, the other era that
> has very strong appeal is the end of steam - October 1954 to be precise,
> guess who was born then!! good as any date to model.
>
> Let me know how your small steam thoughts develop you have my support
> and I'll back it up with $s.
> --
> Kelvin White
> Oxford England
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> The Proto 64 web site is at: http://www.wolfenet.com/~kthompso/Proto64
Group: S-Trains Message: 833 From: kelvin white Date: 12/26/1998
Subject: [Proto64] MPSM modern Shortline modelling
In message <3685A74F.B5365D77@...>, Skip Mersereau
<jwmersereau@...> writes
>From: Skip Mersereau <jwmersereau@...>
>
>Kelvin:
>
>Curious about your 1990's thrust as that is the era I am modelling myself. I
>am "into shortline railroading" here and have based my layout on the
>interchange of two Class 1 roads with a local shortline. My home road
>shortline is based on the local Maryland Midland which ran RS-3's in the
>mid-1980's, then F7's in the late 1980's and now runs GP9's and GP38-2's. Of
>course, expansion of the theme and employment of a actual shortline
>right-of-way I prefer make it all work.

Hi Skip
You sound like another kindred spirit!!

Most of my modelling is Northern Wisconsin / Michigan UP based - the
first RR book I bought was Stan Mailer's history of the GB&W. However my
interests have moved slightly north into the Northwoods. I have a very
strong interest in the paper industry and lumber industry.

My only visit to the States so far was in 95, when two weeks were spent
railfanning the WSOR, WC and E&LS. I now model the E&LS (Escanaba & Lake
Superior) and have started a permanent home layout based on Crivitz (Ex
Milw Rd) on the E&LS. THe E&LS is famous for it's use of Baldwins - S12s
and RS12s, and up @ Wells a couple of Sharks lie rotting - Alas the E&LS
is VERY UNFRIENDLY to railfans. Next year when I go back, I hope to
soften their hard nose effect with some photographs of my E&LS
modelling. The E&LS also roster 3 SD9s (ex Reserve Mining), (there were
five but two have been retired).They also roster 2 ex Reserve Mining
SW8s very similar to a SW9, and three Ex Conrail GP38s, two still in
Conrail blue, whilst #400 is painted in a wonderful GN inspired Orange
and Brown. E&LS traffic is mainly Pulpwood and Paper products. To date I
have a SD9, GP38, blw s12, and a blw RS12 under construction (S12 body
on RS3 chassis with a scratchbuilt short hood).

Running alongside of the E&LS is my own shortline (a Railtex concern)
the Whiteoak Finistere & Southern - motive power is two ex GP35 (Ex SP)
a GP30, a GP9 and a SW9 - painting has started, for putting the whole
roster into the Grey & Red Railtex livery. The SW9 has been paintedand
looks very smart. Leased power comes from the NSLX (North Shore Leasing)
and consists of a ex Conrail SW9 and a RS3 with a very mixed blood
background! Traffic is paper, pulpwood and quite a lot of sand traffic,
similar to that on the old Ann Arbour.

Yes I have too many locomotives and freight cars for the 18 x 8ft of
garage that is home to my RR.
>
>I have been collecting equipment down both paths: steam and contemporary
>diesel. I have recently decided that the contemporary diesel is easier to
>reach a satisfying result because diesels are less road specific (USRA ideal
>by design) than steam. Not a fan of UP/SP or NYC and PRR - or at least as a
>first choice, and not a narrow gauge fan either, I find that steam and small
>steam at that of the MA&PA variety (I prefer many of the other eastern roads
>to this venerable classic but it represents a good and well-known type)
>unlikely to get done. So 100% diesel it is. And in a way the rebirth of
>shortlines running 1st and 2nd generation power with the emergence of
>super-powered Class 1's is analogous to the 1950's contrast in steam power
>plants between shortlines and mainlines.

I won't go on about my steam interests - other than to say that they
centre around a revived Wisconsin & Michigan RR and its connections with
the AA car ferries at Manitowoc.
>
>Love to hear about your interests.
Well you did ask ....you won't do that again in a hurry!!

Seasonal Greetings everyone
--
Kelvin White
Oxford England
Group: S-Trains Message: 834 From: PatnDave Date: 12/26/1998
Subject: A Roller Bearing truck for S scale
Happy Holidays All!

It's been requested that I re-explain my concept for a roller bearing truck
with rotating bearing caps as described in my original posting of 11/21/98
since some my have deleted the original. Now, my drawing can more clearly
portray the idea and allow me to elaborate on other related aspects of the
complete truck design.Thanks to the wizardry of our List Web-MASTER and
Guru, Paul Yorke,
the drawing can be viewed at:

http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/proto/ROLBGTK4a.gif

Concept:
The idea is to create a roller bearing truck featuring rotating bearing caps
yet posses free (or as close to) the free rolling characteristics of trucks
utilizing the current "pointed axle - cone bearing" feature. Since this
system provides the ultimate in roll-ability, my thought then was to
incorporate this method into a design while providing the means for a
rotating bearing cap. What I did was reverse and modify the "point" and
"cone" design as is evident in the drawing.
Please take a look at it and give me your thoughts and criticisms.

My Thoughts:
In general, I feel it would work though my main concern is with car weight.
The lighter cars might need additional weight added to maintain a downward
force in the area of bearing-to-axle contact so that the rotation of the
axle would not cause unwanted "car lift". Secondly, would be wear and
longevity of the "point" on the bearing it self. This is why a self
lubricating type plastic would probably be the best suited material to use
here. But also of critical importance, would be the axle surface finish in
the bearing contact area. The smoother the better! IE, a highly polished or
even a chromium type finish for optimum performance and durability. This
polishing step need not necessarily be provided at the point of manufacture
but could be done by the purchaser so long as the manufacturer provides a
reasonably good surface that could be used as is.
I have several other thoughts and applications of this bearing design that
I'll propose later.

Happy Holidays All!

Dave
Group: S-Trains Message: 835 From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx Date: 12/26/1998
Subject: Re: Hotwheels
Well I call em ALL hot wheels, growed up with that concept....
Looking at my 2nd stash and NOWHERE does it say hot wheels!!! Uh Oh!!!!!
The 50 Merc (mild grile custom) is an Adult Collectible of Racing Champions
and
liscensed by Hot Rod Mag. and part of the Drag Racing Series and it is one of
19,998 pieces issued limited edition.
And
the 56 Chev Nomad is similar except its Motor Trend and Racing Champions and
also
one of 19998 pieces AND its an affordable collectible
of course
All these are made in CHINA so maybe.....
anyway
both are copyrighted by Racing Chamapions Inc of Glen Ellyn Illinois if that
helps.
As for me? Hot wheels they R!!!!! And they are sold in the hot weels area.
Scale of the Merc is listed as 1:60 and the Chev is 1:63 listed on the small
box.
L.
Group: S-Trains Message: 836 From: John Foley Date: 12/26/1998
Subject: Southwind
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 14:53:03 -0500
From: Daniel Neumayer <Daniel@...>
Subject: Re: New Brass Thanks

>From: John Foley <foley164@...>
>
>Hi Folks
> I would like to thank the folks who replied about the New Brass.
>I see that many would like to see some small steamers. To tell you the
>truth I wouldn't mind that myself. So how about some USRA Steamers.
>0-6-0, 0-8-0, 2-8-0 etc. I was also thinking painted and lighted and
>the purchaser could apply his own decals. Let me know what you think.
> John Foley
> Eastern VP NASG
> 164 W. Railroad St.
> Pottsville PA. 17901
> Phone/Fax 717 622-3413
> foley164@...
>

I'm new hear, so there may be something I don't understand. Why would the
USRA steamers be considered when Southwind makes them now?

Speaking of small locos, Southwind was going to make an atlantic (I'm not
sure if they will) but it would require 40" radius curves. I have talked to
Jettie and understand his reasoning, but still, it seems to me that an
Atlantic for smaller radii ought to be possible.

Happy Holidays to Everyone!
Daniel

Hi Daniel
I am not aware of any USRA loco's being done by Southwind. I know they
are doing an SP 2-8-0 and a pennsy 2-8-0. and they are talking about an
Atlantic. These are all specific to these railroads. USRA locos where all over
the country and with many different railroads. It must be said Southwind
produces many wonderful S gauge brass items and I know they will continue.
John Foley





___________________________________________________________________________
Group: S-Trains Message: 837 From: John Foley Date: 12/26/1998
Subject: Great American Train show
Hi Folks
Well I got another free booth with GATS at the Greengate Mall Expo
Center in Greensburg PA. The show is on 1/32-24/99 11am-5pm both days.
So if any S gaugers are in that area and you would like to promote
S gauge please let me know. We would have three tables so plenty of room to
display available S items you may have. If anyone would like to use a table
to promote a loco S club or start a new one please be my guess. I will be at
booth 206D lower level, Just look for the NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF S GAUGERS
overhead banner. SO LET ME KNOW at foley164@...

John Foley Eastern VP NASG
164W.Railroad St.
Pottsville PA. 17901
Phone/fax 717 622-3423
Group: S-Trains Message: 838 From: joes-train-repair@xxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Date: 12/26/1998
Subject: S Mags Circulation
According to Heimburger House Publishing Company in a recent
communication I received from Don Heimberger, the current circulations of
their two magazines are:

S Gaugian: 5,500 readers
Sn3 Modeler: 2,000 readers

Of course, this letter promoted advertising in these two magazines, so
the circulation figures might be slightly inflated. Further, there does
not seem to be a lot of overlap between the two magazines as he states
"...our twin sister magazines...together offer you 7,200 S scalers!"

Joe

Joes Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613
404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338
Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer
American Models ################### S-Helper Service
joes-train-repair@... Master Charge/Visa

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Group: S-Trains Message: 839 From: Daniel Neumayer Date: 12/26/1998
Subject: Wheel Puller needed
I need a wheel puller for the drivers on the old AF steamers. I have
purchased two, niether of which work, they are too thick to fit between the
wheel and the body. Anyone know where I can get the appropriate tool?

Thanks,
Daniel
Group: S-Trains Message: 840 From: Boss31@xxx.xxx Date: 12/26/1998
Subject: Re: S-Gaugian
Regarding Ted Larsons remarks about the mix of the magazine. Ted, I have
determined that for the Hi-rail/Flyer people there is too much scale info in
the magazine and for The Scalers there is too much Flyer/Hi-rail info.. Thus
it seems to me that it must be about right. I like it very much and read it
from cover to cover two or three times. PS, I'm a Flyer collector/operator but
I think Jess Bennets Scale layout is the neatest thing in model railroading.
Steve Blackburn
Boise, Idaho RMHR
Group: S-Trains Message: 841 From: Jeffrey Tangeman Date: 12/26/1998
Subject: Flyer parts vendors wanted
Greetings all,

I was at the local train dealer today picking up some track for an O layout
(forgive me for crossing guages:)) and in conversing with the owner
discovered he needs a little s-guage help. He is repairing a Pikemaster
engine for another customer, probably a casey jones, that has a burned out
reverse unit. Needless to say he is unaware of the Flyer parts vendors
nationwide (he doesn't know where to find the part) and I promised to get a
list of vendors so he can find parts to repair American Flyers in the future.

You mission fellow S-gaugers is to sent me parts vendors names and addresses
that I may print the information off and deliver to this train
dealer/repairman so another Flyer engine may live.

Thanks,

Jeff Tangeman
Group: S-Trains Message: 842 From: M. McConnell Date: 12/26/1998
Subject: (no subject)
I just received the '98 Christmas car a couple of days before Christmas. It
comes in the latest "L" Flyer box (blue and yellow). The artwork is
excellent, the letters are crisp (the word "HOLIDAYS" is in red outlined in
white and the '98 is in green with a white outline. The holly and berry
graphic is also outlined in white).

The car itself is not painted, but molded in a brassy-gold color. On the
car underframe are molded "AMERICAN FLYER" "BY LIONEL" and "PA-9988".
Included is a bag of 6 bottle-brush type trees with white snow accents. You
may find trees very similar in your local hobby and crafts store. The bag
has a "Made in China" sticker.

I've got the collection of Christmas cars and was very dissapointed they
choose to come out with a gondola, I would have prefered keeping with the
traditional box car - perhaps with the same gold color - oh well, I guess
overall, I'm satisifed.

>Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 06:52:59 -0500
> From: "James R. Schiele" <jschiele@...>
>Subject: Flyer Christmas Car
>
>Does anybody have any information in the "L" Flyer Christmas car.
>Jim Schiele
>TCA 83-19217
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 843 From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton Date: 12/26/1998
Subject: S Gaugian as a a Scale Publication
It was written recently that S Gaugian is primarily a scale magazine. I do
not agree with this opinion. Quite the opposite is true. Unless the
writer is referring to the buildings and scenery--but then how much could
you write, continually, about Colber, Flyerville and Plasticville?

Steve Pendleton
bestofbreed@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 844 From: PatnDave Date: 12/27/1998
Subject: A Roller Bearing truck for S scale
Dave:
Is there a model Roller Bearing truck in HO or O scale that has this feature
? I may well be wrong, but
thought maybe there was.
Skip

Yes Skip, there was an attempt for rotating bearing caps in HO a number of
years ago (by Central Valley?) but was not well received due to very poor
rolling capability. Currently, Kato I believe, has introduced their version
with much more success as I understand though I do not know how they
achieved it or how it would compare in roll-ability to a standard truck
equipped with pointed axles. The aim of my proposal is for maximum rolling
characteristics.
Dave
Group: S-Trains Message: 845 From: kelvin white Date: 12/27/1998
Subject: USRA gang of 100
Dear Billy,

Thanks for taking the time to give us some hard facts, a heavily snipped
version below.

>When Jettie and I tried to import the SouthWind 0-6-0 - after all everyone
>was clamoring for small, universal power - the best price we could develop in
>1991 was $535.

>Many of those who had clamored for
>the small loco before suddenly felt they were being ripped off and just
>complained about the price tag.

>In S scale, we have probably 2,000 potential brass customers. Adding hi-rail options improves the potential to hit break-even
>faster, but little else. The compromises required in complex brass models are
>hard to justify, and can even cost sales from the purist types.

>My recommendation for the future will be to only produce models where
>sufficient reservations (and major deposits) have been received.

>So, Kelvin, we will be very happy to produce the CNW 4-6-0 - a favorite of
>mine! We just need $100,000 US to get the project rolling! We will accept
>your personal check!!! ;-)

A special thanks for inviting me to get the ball rolling on the R-1,
incidently how many years of the S/Sn3 modelling guide would I have to
write to raise $100,000!!! At present I'm investing in getting a ready
to lay turnout available on the market, so the R-1 will have to wait.

However I do believe that a series of small USRA steam engines could be
succesful. In days of old there was the 'gang of 100', which promoted
and got quite a few Pennsy steamers built. It seems that there is a case
to be made for a similar group to be formed to promote USRA steam.

What is very disapointing is that NASG is seemingly totally passive in
all of this. I know that NASG is predominantly AF collector/operator
and Hi-rail, with scale modellers a smaller group and Sn3 modellers
rarely being members. If locomotive could be developed that was suitable
for Hi-rail or scale, there could be less internal resistance. John
Foley are you reading this - can you pass these coments onto the 'Gods'.
I think NASG should be instrumental in helping to set up a 'USRA gang of
100', and establishing contacts with suitable manufacturers.

Before anybody declares that I'm all mouth and an empty wallet. I do buy
brass, at the last count there was a GE 44tonner, RS18, GP38, SD9, GP30,
and there had been two RS11s but they were traded to Ron S for a Omnicom
MP 2-8-0. Whilst for the past year or more, I've had my name down for
two D&RG 2-8-0s from Jettie. I don't complain about the cost despite
everything I import gets inflated by 40% because of shipping costs,
import duty, and sales tax @ 17.5% !!!

I can only give verbal, moral and some financial support to getting a
'USRA gang of 100' going. 99 other people required.
--
Kelvin White
Oxford England.
Group: S-Trains Message: 846 From: PortLines@xxx.xxx Date: 12/27/1998
Subject: Re: Wheel puller
In a message dated 12/27/98 4:26:47 AM, you wrote:

<<I need a wheel puller for the drivers on the old AF steamers. I have

purchased two, niether of which work, they are too thick to fit between the

wheel and the body. Anyone know where I can get the appropriate tool?

>>
We sell an excellent wheel-puller, designed for use with S, O, and G gauge.
These are NOT reworked battery terminal lifters! They are specifically made
for this purpose, and the tips are hardened aircraft steel. I use one all the
time for our own shop repairs!
Comes with two sets of tips....the thinner for S/O, thicker for O/G.
$38.95 plus shipping.
MC/VISA/DISCOVER/AMEX accepted.
Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)
Port Lines Hobby Supply
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Port Lines @ aol.com http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 847 From: paul1049 Date: 12/27/1998
Subject: "B" unit horn
I have an A/F Silver Flash "B" unit with a horn inside. Can someone tell me
what is needed to make it operate? Do I need a control button, and how would
it be wired? I have a diesel horn canister unit with 4 prongs on the bottom,
but when I wired it up , all I got was a small hum when the button was
pushed. Is this part of the operating system for the Silver Flash unit?
Thanks .
Paul
Group: S-Trains Message: 848 From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade Date: 12/27/1998
Subject: Re: USRA gang of 100
kelvin white wrote:

> Dear Billy,
>
> Thanks for taking the time to give us some hard facts

> (SNIP)

> However I do believe that a series of small USRA steam engines could be
> succesful. In days of old there was the 'gang of 100', which promoted
> and got quite a few Pennsy steamers built. It seems that there is a case
> to be made for a similar group to be formed to promote USRA steam.
>

Omnicon's Gang of 100 helped bring in only two locos, the PRR 2-10-0 and NYC Mohawk 4-8-2. There are still some folks (myself
included) who deposited money on engine #3, the yet-to-be-made PRR/C&O 2-10-4, and have not seen anything from it in the last five+
years. Any group formed will have an uphill climb to overcome the stigma associated with the previous experiences.

> What is very disapointing is that NASG is seemingly totally passive in
> all of this. I know that NASG is predominantly AF collector/operator
> and Hi-rail, with scale modellers a smaller group and Sn3 modellers
> rarely being members. If locomotive could be developed that was suitable
> for Hi-rail or scale, there could be less internal resistance. John
> Foley are you reading this - can you pass these coments onto the 'Gods'.
> I think NASG should be instrumental in helping to set up a 'USRA gang of
> 100', and establishing contacts with suitable manufacturers.
>
> (SNIP)

The NASG is the logical place to start. As I recall, it was the brass freight car projects of the early 1980's that pulled many new
members into the fold. Myself included. Since there has been very little activity on the scale side in the last five-six years,
there are now many ex-members. Bummer.

Take care,
Bill

--
=============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================
Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer
Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218
B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com
S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com
Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com
Group: S-Trains Message: 849 From: Daniel Neumayer Date: 12/27/1998
Subject: Re: USRA gang of 100
>From: kelvin white <kelvin@...>
>
>Dear Billy,
>
>>In S scale, we have probably 2,000 potential brass customers. Adding
>>hi-rail options improves the potential to hit break-even
>>faster, but little else. The compromises required in complex brass models are
>>hard to justify, and can even cost sales from the purist types.

I'm not sure about this. I guess we should ask Jettie how he did with the
Hi-rail on his recent 2-8-0. I was one of those customers, and it is my
favorite engine.

>I can only give verbal, moral and some financial support to getting a
>'USRA gang of 100' going. 99 other people required.

You can put me down for any scale steamer that can take 24" curves,
although I am not interested in collecting all variations of the same
engine.

-Daniel Neumayer
Group: S-Trains Message: 850 From: Alex Binkley Date: 12/27/1998
Subject: small steamers
Hi:
I would like a 4-6-0 Like CNR's H6g class or a 2-8-0. I could use it as an
excursion loco on my modern shortline.
cheers
Alex Binkley
Hammond, Ontario
alex.binkley@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 851 From: Ken Zieska Date: 12/27/1998
Subject: Gang of 100
Kelvin,
I applaud your idea and efforts. The NASG brass projects not only
got some very nice things done but they demonstrated that the NASG track
and wheel standards were better and established them as the defacto
standard of the world. Up until that time the NMRA had
analysis-paralysis and supported a standard that way off the mark and
not in common use anyway.
While I am sure some members of the Gang of 100 will speak up, I
think that it died because several key people died, one in particular
who was the founder and driving force. In addition, I think the gang
focus may have saturated the market insted of growing it. I understand
that there was alot of money lost on everyone's account when the gang
died.
Could the NASG make a brass project work, it seems likely if someone
is capable of doing the research and working the interface with the
builder/importer that is possible. It may mean that the NASG would have
to slow down on stockpiling the L special run cars they are doing and
use that capital to finance the project. Again it comes down to having
someone do it. While I have no interest in the L cars, I respect the
fact that someone has the interest to get it done and is doing it.
Would a brass project accomplish anything, would it build the market is
again subject to discussion. Although it may be that who should care as
long as it is fun. There is one big challenge and that is getting it
done correct. A poorly done project will kill it, people seem to have
more tolerance to poorly done projects in plastic but brass would need
to be correct.
Best wishes and if the project is something that has flexibility to
be modified into a midwest locomotive count me in as a suporter.
Ken Zieska
Group: S-Trains Message: 852 From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx Date: 12/28/1998
Subject: vehicles/steam engines
I chauffered the annual after Christmas pilgramage to the mall,
which has a nearby Target. The shelves were actually well
stocked. The Mint editions Corvair is now available in street
version, although it is still way oversize. The '58 Chev
is now available as a convertible in the Hot Rod series. It has
custom wheels, tires, and paint. Based on previous experience,
this should be available in street version sometime soon.

Regarding steam engines, I am a scale modeler, but I am
happy with anything that is "close", if "close" is possible
and "exact" is NOT. Especially if "close" is MUCH more
affordable than "exact". I would be very happy with ANY of the
AF engine shells running on scale drivers. Also improved
valve gear, and maybe some detail parts as is done in brass?
Might that be a feasible place to start our steam efforts?

Another possible starting point is the REX engines. Much
money is available to be saved since tooling exists. What
is the feasibility of finding a source to assemble them and
make them readily available?

Hope you all had a blessed Christmas, and I wish you a fun
New Year.

Ted Larson
Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division
2001 - First year of the next millenium

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Group: S-Trains Message: 853 From: PortLines@xxx.xxx Date: 12/28/1998
Subject: Re: NASG cars
In a message dated 12/28/98 4:32:51 AM, you wrote:

<<Could the NASG make a brass project work, it seems likely if someone

is capable of doing the research and working the interface with the

builder/importer that is possible. It may mean that the NASG would have

to slow down on stockpiling the L special run cars they are doing and

use that capital to finance the project. Again it comes down to having

someone do it. While I have no interest in the L cars, I respect the

fact that someone has the interest to get it done and is doing it.>>

"Stockpiling" ??????? Believe me, we'd prefer to have NO excess inventory
left over each year! Unfortunately, the first year in which we produced a
smaller production run, we almost had a REVOLT from members who procrastinated
and then got very angry (with NASG, and with me personally) because we did not
have enough cars to fill their initial (and late!) orders. Since then, Lionel
has increased their minimum production to 1000 cars, which I can understand,
but we usually only sell 700-800 cars initially. Thus, I'm sitting here with
2-300 extra cars in my storage each year, until they sell out.... they DO
eventually sell, but it does take some time after the initial rush!
Finally, let me add that I'm not at all opposed to the idea of NASG doing more
to support scale projects. It should be a part of its "mission", just as well
as the highrail end!
Doug
Group: S-Trains Message: 854 From: Barbara Bogert Date: 12/28/1998
Subject: Gilbert horse race toy?
Can anyone enlighten us regarding a Gilbert toy described as: a track
much like slot cars use but the toys are not cars they are two sulkie
type horse and carts. The owner tells me he has all the original parts
and the box, which is how he knows it is Gilbert. We have yet to see
it. He is supposed to be bringing it to us on the 31st. If we could
have a little knowledge about it by then it would be nice. Since we
know nothing about Gilbert toys we are in the dark but would like to
help this fellow.
barbara
--
Jack & Barbara Bogert J & B Toy Trains Drums, PA
We buy, sell, trade and sell on consignment
American Flyer Trains and Accessories
http://homestead.com/americanflyer/toytrains.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 855 From: Keith Thompson Date: 12/28/1998
Subject: Re: NASG cars
Hi Doug and All,

Concerning NASG cars, Have you ever looked into offering the cars
through select dealers at a slightly higher cost than what the
membership pays? I know a guy in Houston who shall remain nameless that
never wanted to buy an NASG car until he saw it and the car was pretty
much sold out. To make matters worse, he wasn't an NASG member but he
would always want an NASG car and he would twist all of his friends
arms until they sold him theirs.

If an alternate outlet for cars other than the NASG where available, we
could have said "Hey, go to so and sos to buy your car or become an NASG
member." Since he's not a "joiner," he would've gladly gone to the other
source. I know a lot of folks like this guy and I think the excess cars
could easily be sold to them at 10-25% over member prices.

BTW, the guy I referred to is not in S scale anymore because he says
we're too cliquish. Go figure. Anyway, that's my two cents on the
subject. I'm sure there are a lot of opinions to counter mine but as we
face increasing minimums for custom runs, this may be the only way to
keep doing cars short of putting code 88 wheelsets on Furbies. -- Keith
Thompson in Seattle.

/\
<====>
||
||
||
/||\
/ || \

PortLines@... wrote:
>
> From: PortLines@...
>
> In a message dated 12/28/98 4:32:51 AM, you wrote:
>
> <<Could the NASG make a brass project work, it seems likely if someone
>
> is capable of doing the research and working the interface with the
>
> builder/importer that is possible. It may mean that the NASG would have
>
> to slow down on stockpiling the L special run cars they are doing and
>
> use that capital to finance the project. Again it comes down to having
>
> someone do it. While I have no interest in the L cars, I respect the
>
> fact that someone has the interest to get it done and is doing it.>>
>
> "Stockpiling" ??????? Believe me, we'd prefer to have NO excess inventory
> left over each year! Unfortunately, the first year in which we produced a
> smaller production run, we almost had a REVOLT from members who procrastinated
> and then got very angry (with NASG, and with me personally) because we did not
> have enough cars to fill their initial (and late!) orders. Since then, Lionel
> has increased their minimum production to 1000 cars, which I can understand,
> but we usually only sell 700-800 cars initially. Thus, I'm sitting here with
> 2-300 extra cars in my storage each year, until they sell out.... they DO
> eventually sell, but it does take some time after the initial rush!
> Finally, let me add that I'm not at all opposed to the idea of NASG doing more
> to support scale projects. It should be a part of its "mission", just as well
> as the highrail end!
> Doug
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info - http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm
Group: S-Trains Message: 856 From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx Date: 12/28/1998
Subject: (no subject)
Richard Snook has clarified his original question by saying that he really
wante
d to know which magazine offers the best value, in terms of content , to a
modell
er who is neither an American Flyer operator nor a hi-railer. Good, but
the clari
fication doesn't change the answers much.
Before going on I repeat "WARNING. Sure to offend some. Not kidding."
S Gaugian obviously reaches many S-scalers who are neither Flyer operators
nor hi
-railers. Its content, however, is of limited value to those people. I'm
sure we
all know scale people who do not subscribe to S Gaugian because there is
little i
n it for them.
So Ted Larson was no more astounded than I when we read that S Gaugian is
mostly
scale. Then Steve Pendleton chimed in, saying "Quite the opposite is true"
Bill Porter, on the other hand, thinks the magazine is even-handed in its
treatme
nt of various aspects of S. And Steve Blackburn thinks the Flyer-scale
mix "must
be about right."
Thus I seem to be among the minority in finding S Gaugian strongly
oriented towar
d American Flyer and hi-rail.True, S Gaugian pays some attention to scale
modelli
ng, most notably through Rusty Westermeier's excellent column, but this is
more t
han balanced off by the space devoted to Flyer clubs, Flyer collectors and
Flyer
repairs.
Bill Wade's S/Sn3 Modeling Guide, on the other hand places strong emphasis
on str
ictly-scale modelling.
So if you compare the amount of editorial content which is really useful
and help
ful to people like Richard Snook, Modeling Guide has the edge. The number
of word
s or pages is not, however, the only criterion to be considered. There is
also th
e matter of quality.
Bill Porter hits that particular nail on the head when he says that
"Editorial co
ntent varies depending
on what the authors submit."
He may have been talking about variety of subject matter, but his comment
applies
equally well to quality. The quality of writing in both magazines is very
uneven
, and neither seems to have a standard, let alone one which approaches
that of Ma
inline Modeler.
The quality of writing may seem of secondary importance in a hobby
magazine, and
perhaps it is -- until you try to follow badly-written instructions in a
"how to
do it" article.
For that reason among others I don't subscribe to either one, but buy
single copi
es of issues which contain articles of special interest to me. Mind you, I
do the
same thing with the all-scale magazines. I might wait forever for
drawings of a
wartime hospital car to show up in S scale, so if it appears in N scale I
buy it
in N scale and make a quick trip to the copy shop.
Happy New Year to all. Joe Pereira

email: sigma@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 857 From: John Foley Date: 12/28/1998
Subject: New Brass
Hi Folks
It's just me again. The name of the brass model manufacturer is
3RD Rail Division of Sunset Models. you can get to their web-site at
www.3rdrail.com/ They do want to do some S gauge loco's. From the reponse
I have gotten Small USRA steamers might be something they may do first.
So please go to their site look it over and from there PLEASE e-mail them
with your ideas and thoughts. Very important, they want to do both SCALE
and HIRAIL loco,s. Both will be highly detailed. In their own words they
want to do both to keep price's down.
E-MAIL!! E-MAIL!! E-MAIL!!

Your Friend
John Foley
Group: S-Trains Message: 858 From: Barbara Bogert Date: 12/28/1998
Subject: thanks
As always you are a font of knowledge... Thank you very much. As youcan
see I found out how to create a signature. Have done nothing yet
withthe soundon our site... no time but thanks for the guidance
bb
--
Jack & Barbara Bogert J & B Toy Trains Drums, PA
We buy, sell, trade and sell on consignment
American Flyer Trains and Accessories
http://homestead.com/americanflyer/toytrains.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 859 From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx Date: 12/28/1998
Subject: Ref. NASG CARS
Correct me if I am wrong, but the last two years has not John Foley been
behind the NASG car for other then the Lionel AF collector? I have bought
both cars and they are suitable for both scale and hi-rail. They only produce
300 cars and they are gone in a flash! I pitched in ,up front, on the AM
steam loco and we had to wait what seemed forever, but it was well worth the
wait. I would like to see someone, AM or maybe SHS come up with a similar
project in another USRA loco, maybe a 2-8-0 or 0-8-0 switcher, diecast engine
and a plastic tender, suitable for scale, hi-rail DC or AF. Brass is very
nice, but it has to be handeled with kid gloves. Mike's Train House has shown
the way in 0 gauge with there well detailed diecst loco line. "S", Tom Davis,
Charlotte, N.C.
Group: S-Trains Message: 860 From: Paul Yorke Date: 12/28/1998
Subject: I want your Input!
Your 'S-Trains Survey' input is important to me. Some of you were
having trouble with the HTML/Browser version of the survey input form.
To get as many participants as possible I have learned Microsoft Visual
Basic, and created a VB version of the survey input form. I added a
download link to the results
page.(http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/survey/results.htm) You run it on
your PC. It creates a data file that you save on your local hard drive,
then attach to a mail message and mail to me.
These instructions also appear on the results page....
To use the 'Stand-alone' survey:
1) Download S_Survey.exe to your Windows PC (pay attention to where
you save it so you can find it for step 2)
2) Run S_Survey.exe by double clicking it from your file manager or
windows explorer.
3) Fill in the data, then press the "Save Survey data to file"
button. (again pay attention to the filename and location)
4) In your mail, start a note to me (yorke@...), attach the
data file (c:\s_data.txt) you generated in step 3 to this note. Then
press 'Send'

Hope this helps, as always I will be available to answer any questions
as they come up.

--
Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl.
American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)
Group: S-Trains Message: 861 From: David Dewey Date: 12/28/1998
Subject: Re: Gilbert horse race toy?
Barbara,
Yes, these are Gilbert Auto-Rama items. I think the sulky set is the 'two
rail' system. Gilbert used a 'three rail' roadway system after about the
first year, it allows two cars to run independently in the same 'slot'. I
don't have a value guide on them, so can't tell you just what year they were
done, I think they were a one year item. My '62 catalog doesn't list them,
but does list that you can have your two rail track exchanged for three rail
track for 30 cents per piece, minimum 12 pieces, includes parts to convert
your vehicles to three rail pickup!
Just for everyone's info, the three rail has cars that pickup from the
center shoe and one side, each car picks up from opposite sides in one set.
So, even with the highway three rail system, there is still a need for a
reverse loop power correction!
Oh, I think these are a '61 item. Anyone have an Auto-Rama cat. for 61 who
can answer the question definitively?
S' incerely,
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 862 From: PortLines@xxx.xxx Date: 12/29/1998
Subject: Re: Sulkie set
In a message dated 12/29/98 5:46:00 AM, you wrote:

<<<Can anyone enlighten us regarding a Gilbert toy described as: a track

much like slot cars use but the toys are not cars they are two sulkie

type horse and carts.>>>
This is one of the Gilbert AutoRama "slotcar" sets. Other than the Corvettes,
it is probably one of the most-desirable versions. There were 4 different
sulkies made (#1 through #4), each with a different color horse. Sulkies were
available in the set, as well as separate-sale. Sulkies are somewhat more
fragile than most of the cars, so look them over carefully for breakage. A
boxed sulkie set, in nice shape, is probably worth somewhere in the $150 area,
based on what I've seen of them, and what other AR sets have been bringing.
Doug
Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)
Port Lines Hobby Supply
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Port Lines @ aol.com http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 863 From: PortLines@xxx.xxx Date: 12/29/1998
Subject: Re: S publications
In a message dated 12/29/98 5:46:00 AM, you wrote:

<<Thus I seem to be among the minority in finding S Gaugian strongly

oriented towar

d American Flyer and hi-rail.True, S Gaugian pays some attention to scale

modelli

ng, most notably through Rusty Westermeier's excellent column, but this is

more t

han balanced off by the space devoted to Flyer clubs, Flyer collectors and

Flyer

repairs.

Bill Wade's S/Sn3 Modeling Guide, on the other hand places strong emphasis

on str

ictly-scale modelling.

So if you compare the amount of editorial content which is really useful

and help

ful to people like Richard Snook, Modeling Guide has the edge.>>

I would agree 100% with Joe's observations above!!!! An "S-scaler" will find
"Modeling Guide" far more useful that "S-Gaugian".........An "S-highrailer",
the opposite.
Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)
Port Lines Hobby Supply
6 Storeybrooke Drive
Newburyport, MA 01950-3408
Port Lines @ aol.com http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html
Group: S-Trains Message: 864 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 12/29/1998
Subject: HORSE & SULKY
I have a letter dated November 8,1963 from the A.C. Gilbert Company to
All Authorized Service Stations. My Aunt Eleanor Sattler gave me all
this paper from her files. PA 16D874-A is Horse (black), -B is Horse
(brown, -C is Horse (white), -D is Horse (beige) listed at .65 each.
PA16D881 is Sulky frame at .32 each. PA16A882 lists 4 men
(red,blue,purple & green) at .39 each. Roadway XA17N198 is listed as 2
rail with price of .50. There are many other items and prices including
cars. The set numbers are 19091 "A" Unit and 19091 "B" Unit Race Game.
I can FAX if interested.

Staying on NASG track, Glenn
Group: S-Trains Message: 865 From: Michael Greene Date: 12/29/1998
Subject: 1:64 Vanguards Diecast vehicles
On my annual driving trip to South Carolina to visit with my family for the
holidays, I always look for shops that might have items appropriate for my
S gauge model railroad.

One of the shops I visited on this trip was J-R Outlets, in Statesville NC,
located at Exit 50 on I-77. They've been there quite a while, and I knew
their primary focus was tobacco and perfume, but they have always
advertised other outlet items like clothing, toys, etc. So I decided to
check the toy section on this trip.

What I found was a large section of 1:64 and 1:43 diecast collectibles made
by Lledo PLC of the UK, sold under the name Vanguards. In the 1:64 section
I found a number of lorries(trucks) and tankers:
- Ford Thames Trader Van - VA6005 Atora
- Ford Thames Trader Van - VA6000 Martini
- Ford Thames Trader Van - VA6004 Lucozade
- Bedford S Type Van - VA8002 Surf
- Bedford S Type Tanker - VA7000 Regent
- Bedford S Type Tanker - VA7003 Total Oil
- Leyland Comet Tanker - VA20001 National Benzole
- Ford Thames Trader Tanker - VA9000 North Eastern Board Gas

These seem to be a very nicely done set of diecast. The series is called
1950's-1960's Classic Commercial Vehicles. According to the inserts they
are a limited edition collectible (5000 each), and as a nice touch they
include a set of stickers for various license plate numbers so you have a
fleet with different number plates.

I picked up one of each, but there were quite a few additional of each on
the shelf. I don't know the original retail, but these were priced at an
exceptional $3.50 each at J-R.

Just in case anyone else is interested...

Michael
Group: S-Trains Message: 866 From: John Foley Date: 12/29/1998
Subject: NASG
In 1997 Alan Evans and I with a vote from the NASG BOT formed the
NASG Freight Car Committee. The idea for the committee was to do cars
other then AF, and also make the cars available to folks in HiRail &
Scale. In 1997 we did a S-Helper flat, PRR with a roadgrader as a load
and a Downs Tank car lettered Tru-sweet. We did 300 of each and they
sold quickly. NONE LEFT. In 1998 we did another S-Helper flat, UP with
a excavator for a load. NONE LEFT. This year we are doing so far a Pacific
Rails UP 7 color boxcar. Order blank is in with Dec. Dispatch. This
car is availabe to any NASG Member or anyone who cares to join, HiRailer
and Scaler alike. As far as the AF cars are concerned Doug Peck has for
years done a wonderful job on behalf of the NASG and it's members. Doug
has spend much of his free time packing and shipping many, many orders.
Thanks Doug.

John Foley
Group: S-Trains Message: 867 From: John Foley Date: 12/29/1998
Subject: 3rd Rail
Hi Folks
Just a quick note, first to thank Paul Yorke for telling how to
Hilite a website address so you on clock right on it. So here it is
http://www.3rdrail.com/. So e-mail them and tell what S steamer you
want. Thaks to all the folks who have already sent in theirs.

John Foley
Group: S-Trains Message: 868 From: Tuson, Earl Date: 12/29/1998
Subject: FW: New S decal source
This was posted to the FCL. Thought people would be interested.

> Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 16:46:29 -0600
> From: Tom Stolte <mlw636@...>
> Subject: [FC] Custom Decals
>
> Hello All,
>
> Today I updated my web page. Please check it out. If anyone is looking
> for custom sets of my decals in other scales, I can make them now.
>
> Looking for some of my sets to be made in other scales, like N, S, O
> scale. Now it can be done with the ALPS printer. All you have to do is
> select a HO set from my line of decals. No min. order. Please give me 1
> month for turn around time.
>
> Prices: N Scale: $3.00 each, S Scale : $6.00 each, O Scale: $9.00 each.
>
> Plus $1.75 for P&H
>
> Tom Stolte
> Oddballs Decals
> 26550 227th Street
> McLouth, Kansas 66054
>
> World's smallest producer of Model RR Decals
>
> mailto:mlw636@...
>
> Visit my web sites at:
>
> Oddballs Decals
> http://members.xoom.com/mopac2/oddballs.htm
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 869 From: Paul Yorke Date: 12/29/1998
Subject: Results update
I added (and updated) some links
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/links/links.htm

I revised most of the 'Survey Results' reports. There is now a dozen
reports out there.
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/survey/results.htm
They should be easier to read. Thanks for the constructive comments.
Best thing is they are still computer generated.

In order to run my Visual Basic Survey program you need to have the
Visual Basic Runtime .dll library. (MSVBVM50.DLL, among others). If
anyone needs these files , you can get them from me or download them
from ZDNet
http://hotfiles.zdnet.com/cgi-bin/texis/swlib/hotfiles/info.html?fcode=000LU3&b=

or http://www.simtel.net/simtel.net/win95/dll.html (VB5 Runtime Modules)

(its free) Sorry for the confusion.

--
Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl.
American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)
Group: S-Trains Message: 870 From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx Date: 12/29/1998
Subject: Hmmmm. Lotsa STUFF? and choices---
newby continues to be entertained and informed by the list.
All forms and variations of S .
Even more interesting so (*@#$&*(*#$ many profiles of track!!!!
ah me
Somehow life can get SO complicated.
I am returning the silver edition Bachmann HO passenger set wife gave me for
Xmas. The magic snap track manages to have bad spots, the loco starts and
stops at will, after 3 hrs run in it still do, the nickel silver track
magically has a light black deposit on it even after sitting unused one day
(an unused Shinohara curved turnout thats 25 yrs old does not do that....),
and so on.
In desperation I opened my storage box having a number of scratch built
freight cars of 25 yrs ago- they look quite nice!!!!
Somehow seems like a balance to be struck between numbers and quality?
And will I need to be a watchmaker to go into S scale----
and/or will 40 yr old S highrail become a maintenance headache even if it is
purchased in 'checked out and runs good' condition????
Just sign me-
"wantin' to enjoy the stuff not have to remake everything!"
(I just took apart and replaced a 6 yr old garbage disposal to save $75 +
bucks.... while I have the ability it no longer is a 'challenge'...or
therapy....)
Catch the drift?
Any feedback on this non hardware situation?
In other words, related to 'Life's a choice' as is one's niche in the
hobby....
L.
Group: S-Trains Message: 871 From: Arthur Armstrong Date: 12/29/1998
Subject: Re: Hmmmm. Lotsa STUFF? and choices---
LARSPAINTR@... wrote:
> (clip)
> (I just took apart and replaced a 6 yr old garbage disposal to save $75 +
> bucks.... while I have the ability it no longer is a 'challenge'...or
>
If you can rebuild a garbage disposal then S scale should be a snap. I
assume you were able to buy all the parts for the garbage disposal? The
difference in S scale is that you would have to build a lot of the parts
- and you will be saving less money - and your wife won't be
particularly grateful - and when you try to brag about it you will find
out that someone else did the same thing twenty years ago with only a
razor blade and a sheet of sandpaper.

S scale is a challenge and therapy but you won't soon be running 100 car
trains around the walls of the spare bedroom.

You will find yourself spending hours making a boxcar look right and
hours more just switching cars back and forth - you won't feel a need
for 100 car trains or twenty locomotives.

And even if you are the only S scale builder in your county, you will
have a lot of personal pride because you are free from the shake the
box, accumulate more cars, run longer trains, buy more locomotives
"consumer" style of model railroading.

Try it - it's a great scale. And it takes long enough to collect
hardware so that even if after a year you decide to dump it all you will
not be out much money...

Art Armstrong
aarmstro@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 872 From: Chuck Smith Date: 12/29/1998
Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: [S-Trains] Gilbert horse race toy?]]
Attached is a response from one of our RASG members who is knowledgeable
about Gilbert Race Sets
--
"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers and the
S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith
Group: S-Trains Message: 873 From: Chuck Smith Date: 12/29/1998
Subject: Re: Hmmmm. Lotsa STUFF? and choices---
LARSPAINTR@... wrote:
>
> From: LARSPAINTR@...
>
> newby continues to be entertained and informed by the list.
> All forms and variations of S .
> Even more interesting so (*@#$&*(*#$ many profiles of track!!!!
> ah me
> Somehow life can get SO complicated.
> I am returning the silver edition Bachmann HO passenger set wife gave me for
> Xmas. The magic snap track manages to have bad spots, the loco starts and
> stops at will, after 3 hrs run in it still do, the nickel silver track
> magically has a light black deposit on it even after sitting unused one day
> (an unused Shinohara curved turnout thats 25 yrs old does not do that....),
> and so on.
> In desperation I opened my storage box having a number of scratch built
> freight cars of 25 yrs ago- they look quite nice!!!!
> Somehow seems like a balance to be struck between numbers and quality?
> And will I need to be a watchmaker to go into S scale----
> and/or will 40 yr old S highrail become a maintenance headache even if it is
> purchased in 'checked out and runs good' condition????

> Any feedback on this non hardware situation?

No need to be a watchmaker. I have >10 year old hirail stuff that runs
great. S hirail looks as good as scale to me and is MUCH more forgiving
for operation. We run both scale and hirail on our club modules and I
find the hirail runs more reliably, especially vis-a-vis virtually no
inadvertent uncoupling on less than perfectly aligned module joints. I
know our modules should in theory align perfectly, but I guess I now
know what is meant by the phrase "it ain't a perfect world" after module
installations at very many train shows.
So don't hesitate to get into S. Even if you like to fiddle with scale
it isn't difficult on a permanent layou with stable roadbed. It is
proportionately more forgiving than HO scale, which helps your goal of
not wanting to become a watchmaker.

"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool
than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers and the
S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith
Group: S-Trains Message: 874 From: NYC17819@xxx.xxx Date: 12/29/1998
Subject: Wheel pullers
Several years ago, I needed a wheel puller to change out the driving wheels on
an AF wide-gauge (alse called Standard gauge for some reason by the "L"
people) 4644 electric engine. I looked at some wheel pullers available at a
train meet, but wasn't pleased with the price or quality. After asking some
friends, I found that a faucet puller, available at most hardware stores, was
exactly what I needed.

It has two arms connected to a cross-bar. The arms are L shaped so that the
bottoms of the L's slip under the wheel on opposite sides of the axle. The
cross-bar has a threaded hole ini the middle, with a threaded rod and handle
to turn the rod. The business end of the rod has a smaller diameter for about
an inch and this is perfect for sliding down inside the wheel bore and pushing
the axle out.

If the end of the rod is too big, cut it off at the point where it gets
bigger, and drill a new hole in the end of the rod to receive a smaller pin.
If the arms of the L;s won't fit under the driving wheels, cut a small slot in
a 1/8" thick piece of steel so that it fits around the axle between the frame
and the wheel, then use the L's on the ends of the steel bar instead of
directly on the wheel.

A faucet puller may not be as elegant as a tool designed to pull wheels, but
it's a lot less expensive, more available, and readily adaptable to all kinds
of projects. Enjoy!

Chris Harding
Group: S-Trains Message: 875 From: kelvin white Date: 12/29/1998
Subject: Re: 1:64 Vanguards Diecast vehicles
In message <4.1.19981229103939.00c152c0@...>, Michael
Greene <mgreene@...> writes
>
>What I found was a large section of 1:64 and 1:43 diecast collectibles made
>by Lledo PLC of the UK, sold under the name Vanguards. In the 1:64 section
>I found a number of lorries(trucks) and tankers:
>- Ford Thames Trader Van - VA6005 Atora
>- Ford Thames Trader Van - VA6000 Martini
>- Ford Thames Trader Van - VA6004 Lucozade
>- Bedford S Type Van - VA8002 Surf
>- Bedford S Type Tanker - VA7000 Regent
>- Bedford S Type Tanker - VA7003 Total Oil
>- Leyland Comet Tanker - VA20001 National Benzole
>- Ford Thames Trader Tanker - VA9000 North Eastern Board Gas
>
>These seem to be a very nicely done set of diecast. The series is called
>1950's-1960's Classic Commercial Vehicles. According to the inserts they
>are a limited edition collectible (5000 each), and as a nice touch they
>include a set of stickers for various license plate numbers so you have a
>fleet with different number plates.
>
>I picked up one of each, but there were quite a few additional of each on
>the shelf. I don't know the original retail, but these were priced at an
>exceptional $3.50 each at J-R.

You did really well - here in the UK the Vanguard range are about L13.00
sterling - about $21.00
--
Kelvin White
Oxford England
Group: S-Trains Message: 876 From: Keith Thompson Date: 12/30/1998
Subject: Re: 1:64 Vanguards Diecast vehicles
Hi all,

Here's the URL for a guy in Texas that I deal with for Lledo products:

http://www.ifitzgotwheels.com/ifitzgotwheels/

He's been more than fair and prompt in my dealings with him and he often
has the goods when nobody else does. Recently I purchased the '63 GMC
fire truck and I'd recommend this truck as a good small town pumper.
However, I have to say it's the first green fire engine I've ever seen.
I'm repainting mine red and adding a little chrome. I'll try to remember
to post some photos when I have it done. -- Keith Thompson in Seattle

kelvin white wrote:
>
> From: kelvin white <kelvin@...>
>
> In message <4.1.19981229103939.00c152c0@...>, Michael
> Greene <mgreene@...> writes
> >
> >What I found was a large section of 1:64 and 1:43 diecast collectibles made
> >by Lledo PLC of the UK, sold under the name Vanguards. In the 1:64 section
> >I found a number of lorries(trucks) and tankers:
> >- Ford Thames Trader Van - VA6005 Atora
> >- Ford Thames Trader Van - VA6000 Martini
> >- Ford Thames Trader Van - VA6004 Lucozade
> >- Bedford S Type Van - VA8002 Surf
> >- Bedford S Type Tanker - VA7000 Regent
> >- Bedford S Type Tanker - VA7003 Total Oil
> >- Leyland Comet Tanker - VA20001 National Benzole
> >- Ford Thames Trader Tanker - VA9000 North Eastern Board Gas
> >
> >These seem to be a very nicely done set of diecast. The series is called
> >1950's-1960's Classic Commercial Vehicles. According to the inserts they
> >are a limited edition collectible (5000 each), and as a nice touch they
> >include a set of stickers for various license plate numbers so you have a
> >fleet with different number plates.
> >
> >I picked up one of each, but there were quite a few additional of each on
> >the shelf. I don't know the original retail, but these were priced at an
> >exceptional $3.50 each at J-R.
>
> You did really well - here in the UK the Vanguard range are about L13.00
> sterling - about $21.00
> --
> Kelvin White
> Oxford England
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info - http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm
Group: S-Trains Message: 877 From: Keith Thompson Date: 12/30/1998
Subject: The Minnesota Heartland in print
Hi Ken,

I just got my December Dispatch and when I opened up the center spread,
all I could think was WOW! You and Dave Jasper deserve a big pat on the
back for bringing this story and photos to print. I'm truly impressed
with your layout! I'll be looking forward to more chronicles on the MH
in the Dispatch and in other non-S-scale magazines as well. I'm sure the
Minnesota Heartland hymn is one the whole model railroading congregation
would enjoy hearing. -- Keith Thompson in Seattle

P.S. Who made the Minnesota Heartland Airslide car that Sylas Kayle is
so gleefully gazing upon? -- K.T.
Group: S-Trains Message: 878 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 12/30/1998
Subject: 3 in 1
I wouldn't recommend a 3-in-1 oil for use with your trains. Three-in-one
typically meant petroleum distillate, vegetable, and mineral oils in one.
The veg and mineral will coagulate and get gummy eventually. Labelle oils
are all petroleum, and I believe Gunk's Super Oil is also entirely
petroleum distillate based (anyone else know otherwise?).
Group: S-Trains Message: 879 From: RobertE613@xxx.xxx Date: 12/30/1998
Subject: Re: [Hmmmm. Lotsa STUFF? and choices---
I love my Flyer and therefore love S, but there are strong emotional roots
here that tap into core stuff like childhood and fatherhood. If this
foundation didn't exist, those hours of trying to get the thing to back
through a switch without derailing, purchase of overpriced/fixer-upper
accessories, and constant coupler tinkering might not seem so wonderful.

If you want take it out, put it on the track, run it for hours, no fuss, no
muss simplicity, think twice about opening the door to S. But, to me this
would be agonizingly boring, so ----- why won't this blankety-blank thing back
through double AF switches:)
Group: S-Trains Message: 880 From: David Dewey Date: 12/30/1998
Subject: Backing up through switches
The dynamics of backing up are not particularly good for most AF steamers,
the weak point being the loco to tender connection. The drawbar design works
fine for pulling, but not pushing! Check wheel gauge on all axles,
especially the tender front truck. You may need to add weight to the tender.
I recently had an odd one, loco would run fine, except through two switches
in a row! Hmmm..... finally found on pony truck wheel was split, and sliding
in and out on the axle, changing it's gauge! BTW, I put on the new wheel by
heating the axle with my trusty soldering gun until the wheel would slide on
with a *small* amount of pressure. This way the plastic isn't put under
great stress, but still fits tightly.
AF diesels have their own design problem, mainly electrical pickup through
the axle bearings! AFter (pun intended!) they've worn a bit, the truck
chassis & mostly the sideframes (especially the Alco ones) rub on things
like switch guards & points. This leads to derailing and momentary shorts
that activate reverse unit cycling. I've had the privilage to run nearly new
units, and they don't do this as they 'sit' higher on the rail. I wonder how
soon this problem will show up on the L made units? BTW, this problem
doesn't manifest itself quickly if you have all flat track! (What *real*
railroad doesn't have grades????)
Easiest solution to the back-up problem?? Keep the double switches near the
front of the layout!<BG>
S'
David D.
PS, I love my Flyer too! And yes, it does have a *lot* to do w/childhood
memories, I suspect!
Group: S-Trains Message: 881 From: David Dewey Date: 12/30/1998
Subject: Re: Hmmmm. Lotsa STUFF? and choices---
Newby,
I can answer the '40 year old Highrail" question--if you're talking about
AF products! I have some that have required only oiling in many years of
running. Others seem to require frequent visits to the Dr.'s bench (although
once *finally* fixed, they seem to stay that way--just had too many separate
problems!) I have seen new stuff needing repairs after only short times of
running. It seems the electronic stuff is not as sturdy as the old
mechanical stuff! This is not to say the electronic stuff can do wonderous
things, it just isn't too tolerant of heavy loads, and shorts (too long of
trains, too steep of grades, one too many derailments--hey, isn't this what
we're suppose to do with our trains???). Also the modern stuff seems to be
hard to find parts to repair them (I'm dealing with a birdnested can motor
in an early GP loco now, the new can motor doesn't fit!).
As to other pieces of the puzzle, Scratch building can be as fun, or more
so in S, parts are bigger, but if you like small parts, you can get *really*
detailed, and still have your handiwork visible to the naked eye!
Camaraderie in S is great, there are really generous people here!
You won't find most S products 'on the shelf' at your local toy store or
hobby shop, but even that is changing some & isn't the hunt part of the
fun??
And then there's my signature......
S'incerely,
David Dewey
Watch the Railroad watch and repeat after me, "The future is in S, the
future is in S, the future is in S, the future...."
Group: S-Trains Message: 882 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 12/30/1998
Subject: Chromed Crusader
Did you see the latest CTT? There are two photos of a soon to be released
O-Gauge Reading Lines Crusader - - cool. Anyone feel like doing some AF
35X "kit bashing"? Or perhaps you already have. How did it come out? Any
photos you can share with us? How 'bout it AM - - you've already got the
Pacific platform to start with.
Group: S-Trains Message: 883 From: Keith Thompson Date: 12/30/1998
Subject: Re: Furbies
Hi Kelvin,

Furbies are annoyingly cute dolls that meld the Tomagatchi craze with
the Tickle-me-Elmo craze. I mentioned the Furbies only as a
tongue-in-cheek aside to the thread that was posted on the list about
the underpaid Chinese factory workers that make the dolls.

For an in-depth look at what's behind these annoying critters, look at:
http://www.phobe.com/furby/ and http://crabapple.cc.vt.edu/slight/furby/
in that order. -- Keith Thompson in Seattle

kelvin white wrote:
>
> In message <3687AACF.890F5CE8@...>, Keith Thompson
> <kthompso@...> writes
> >this may be the only way to
> >keep doing cars short of putting code 88 wheelsets on Furbies.
>
> Hi Keith
>
> Please enlighten this far off 'foreigner' - Furbies havn't made it to
> our shores as yet - hopefully they wont - but what is a Furbie???
>
> --
> Kelvin White
> Oxford England
>
> PS Happy New Year+
Group: S-Trains Message: 884 From: PatnDave Date: 12/30/1998
Subject: Fw: [S-Trains] New Brass
Knock-Knock-Knock...hello! anybody out there!!! Gee, you guys are sure quite
lately.
did any one check 3rd Rail's Web site? They have a mighty fine GE DASH-9
that according to reports, could be done in 'S'. Any interest besides
myself? E-mail them.

Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: John Foley <foley164@...>
To: PatnDave <patndave@...>
Date: Monday, December 28, 1998 5:52 PM
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] New Brass


>At 05:38 PM 12/28/98 -0500, you wrote:
>>Hey Foley, you should not have sent me to check out 3rd Rail's Web site.
Now
>>that I saw their big beautiful GE DASH -9 I might have to convert!
>
> Hi
> 3rd Rail told me that anything you see at website can be done in S
> So get the guy's together and E-mail-9!! E-mail-9!!
> John Foley
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: John Foley <foley164@...>
>>To: S-Trains@onelist.com <S-Trains@onelist.com>
>>Date: Monday, December 28, 1998 2:20 PM
>>Subject: [S-Trains] New Brass
>>
>>
>>>From: John Foley <foley164@...>
>>>
>>>Hi Folks
>>> It's just me again. The name of the brass model manufacturer is
>>>3RD Rail Division of Sunset Models. you can get to their web-site at
>>>www.3rdrail.com/ They do want to do some S gauge loco's. From the
reponse
>>>I have gotten Small USRA steamers might be something they may do first.
>>>So please go to their site look it over and from there PLEASE e-mail them
>>>with your ideas and thoughts. Very important, they want to do both SCALE
>>>and HIRAIL loco,s. Both will be highly detailed. In their own words they
>>>want to do both to keep price's down.
>>> E-MAIL!! E-MAIL!! E-MAIL!!
>>>
>>> Your Friend
>>> John Foley
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>>>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
>>>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info -
>>http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 885 From: John Foley Date: 12/30/1998
Subject: Foley again
Hi Folks
I would like to say thanks to all the S gaugers who have e-mailed
3rd rail models. I know that your thoughts and ideas will help them. I am
some what new to computers so please bear with me. So I will try to do it
rigth this time. You can go to 3rd rail at http://www.3rdrail.com/ and you
if you want can e-mail them at sdmann@... You also can leave
a note on their messagr board by clicking on MESSAGE BOARD at top of their
oppenning page. Remember I am only try to promote S gauge railroading so
please forgive me for any goof ups. So tell them what you would like them
to produce in S Gauge and yes they will do it in HIRAIL & SCALE

Your Friend
John Foley
Group: S-Trains Message: 886 From: Curtis Johnson Date: 12/30/1998
Subject: Re: Digest Number 83
Happy New Year
2 all the S peeplum

Hope you used that extra second of 1998 to run S-trains !!!

Looking fwd to more great reading in 1999.
C Johnson
----------------------------------
Group: S-Trains Message: 887 From: seg@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) Date: 12/30/1998
Subject: Moreau CTT interview
I'm forwarding this TCA message from Chris Zizzo commenting on the
recent Moreau CTT interview which should be of interest:
--------------- MESSAGE toytrains.v002.n193.7 ---------------

From: "busy-boy" <busy-boy@...>
Subject: One "Flyer" guy's opinion
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 04:39:11 -0500

Dear Trainiacysus Listems:

I actually find it difficult these days to call myself a Flyer guy. I
buy
so little of the stuff, choosing instead to lavish my attentions on
S-Helper
(yes, Virginia, we're finally gonna have F-3's!) and American Models (I
have
the two most beautiful GG-1's, and it's about time) and all those
freight
car builders out there (thank you Russ, for those incredible Down's
tankers.) Now the president of Lionel makes a plain public announcement
that he'd be happy to divest American Flyer if the "fit" is perfect.
Read
that as big cash and a sweetheart licensing deal that will forbid
starter
sets and any kind of competition.

Why?

The established two-rail "S" gauge market is no longer in competition
with
Lionel. Back in the fifties, Mom and Dad pondered the pros and cons of
size
and realism and name brand cache to make the decision on Junior's
Christmas
set. J.L.Cowen loved Marx and hated Gilbert because Marx kids could
always
graduate to the Big L and run all the trains together, but once the
decision
was made to go two-rail, compatibility was shot and Lionel lost a
customer
for life.

Well, those lives are still going, and the "S" market is now composed of
a
variety of factions who are all committed to the gauge. Building for
them
adds to Lionel's product line without competing with the "O" gauge
market.
The problem is, Gary Moreau and Company have enough to do to figure out
the
3-rail market. Dealing with Flyer too is like Hitler trying to fight a
two-front war. You dilute both and serve neither. Then, you lose.

Lionel took a flyer (intentional pun) on some new "S" gauge tooling.
The
SD-40-2 was a pretty neat concept. Just the idea that a brand new
diesel
was about to be released was very gratifying, to me at least. It was a
strange choice, however, since it was a modern era engine and left the
steam
transition guys out of the loop. The steam to diesel transition era is
where most layouts live. Eventually an SD-40 might be nice, but an F-3
or a
Baldwin shark would have been a more auspicious first offering. I did
especially like Lionel's touch with the alternate coupler arrangement,
supplying scale coupler pockets. It seemed that here, at least, they
were
taking their cue from the marketplace, as this is standard practice with
the
other manufacturers now. But come on, scale? With those oversize
handrails
and that obvious toylike look? The deal here might be for a scale guy
to
kitbash the thing and put the shell on another chassis before
super-detailing it. So, don't bother about the Kadee pockets.

The "S" market shakes out something like this:

The scale guys lay code rail, operate everything and have no qualms
about
taking an airbrush full of Floquil Grimy Black to anything that moves on
their pike. If it can look like the prototype and it fits into the
modeled
period and location, it's welcome on the layout. $2-300 for an engine
isn't
too bad if it only needs another hundred or so to look right. It beats
a
grand for brass.

The Flyer collectors want a pristine copy of all postwar equipment and
prize
their five-digit freight cars in the clear plastic boxes because they
can
actually look at them without breaking the seal. These guys hate the
new
stuff because it tends to dilute the market and make only the most mint
originals valuable, while reducing every lower grade of the trains that
go
into reproduction.

There are collectors buying the new stuff, but they are a little edgy
since,
instead of appreciation, there has been too much product out there and a
lot
of discounting. Just ask anyone who paid $250 or so for a Railsounds
"B"
unit. These guys get fed up a lot and start liquidating.

The high-rail operators have a few subsets. Some only run original
Flyer,
even choosing to only run sets as catalogued! (See this month's CTT
article
on the Flyer "prize" layout.) Others limit themselves to Flyer,
although
they include modern era in that description, while the rest of us are
open
to the products of all manufacturers and are enjoying the fruits of the
toy
train renaissance.

Now look at those groups to see who would buy a newly tooled SD-40. The
scale guys might pick up one or two for a project. The modern Flyer
operators might want one, provided they are not part of the 80 per cent
or
so who model steam transition.

So there is probably a good 75 or 80 guys in this country who might want
a
new SD-40-2. So, let's see, what railroad shall we model? I know, how
about the always colorful Conrail? From a production standpoint, it was
certainly cheaper to paint the whole shell one shade of blue with no
masks,
and then letter it in white with one simple logo. I can hear the logic
of
the meeting room echoing: "Sure, and if it takes off, later we'll offer
it
in other roadnames, but why spend money now?"

How do you point out to non-railroad people that Conrail represents of
the
failure of the beloved New York Central Pacemaker Freight and the mighty
Pennsylvania Railroad freight service, among others, such as the Erie
and
the D&H and the New Haven? Conrail blue on your layout is your
assurance
that you do not run steam and even the best looking diesels in your barn
are
a day or so away from retirement. Conrail blue on your layout means
that
all your freight cars are carrying fallen flags and their days under
that
livery are numbered. And, to top it off, Conrail is now a fallen flag
as a
result of the CSX/Norfolk Southern merger, so who needs it? Well, maybe
there are one or two guys out there modeling Conrail. But if they are,
they
must be painting their own!

So now, because the Flyer market failed to pick up on their generous
offer
of new tooling, Lionel is looking to opt out of Flyer. It seems to me
that
Mr. Moreau has a market research problem as well as an insular staff
dedicated to remaining disconnected from the reality of todays toy train
marketplace.

You want to make American Flyer work? Don't take a license deal, only a
straight buy-out. Buy all the tooling and all the rights to the name.
Get
all the machines that go with the tooling. You build starter sets.
Next
Christmas, you bring back the American 4-4-0 steamer as a Santa Claus
train
and go after the niche that New Bright is carving for itself in "G"
gauge.
Then put out a variety of starter sets with the same engine. Put them
into
Toys-R-Us and into the Christmas tree seasonal stores like Harrow's and
Fortunoff's. Make special sets with those store's names on them to take
advantage of cooperative advertising. Reach into your pocket and
advertise
strongly. Make a set for Sears. Make a Dept. 56 set intended to work
with
the ceramic villages. Secure a Thomas the Tank licensing deal to
bankroll
tooling new trains and offer a play table with the whole damn Isle of
Sodor.
Make the tools convertible to work for a new line of non-Thomas steam
engines. Don't even bother going after the 3-rail market. Instead,
compete
directly with the budget "G" gaugers (Bachman, New Bright, Toy State)
and
the ready-to-run HO toy store sets. Make complete sets, with track,
transformers and accessories. At the same time, support the hi-rail
hobbyist with a product that competes directly in the semi-scale
marketplace. That means, when you build an engine, it has to have
several
roadnames available at once. Those new Odyssey motors should be
available
for wholesale soon. Don't burn your bridges with Lionel, do business
with
them. Get TMCC to work in 2 rail. Print a full color, multi-page
CATALOG.
Innovate a smoke system that is copious but dissipates quickly. Make
the
name "American Flyer" a player in the toy train field again, instead of
an
overly exploited memory and a fallen flag itself.

Now, anybody got any capital out there?

Enjoy,
Chris Zizzo
Group: S-Trains Message: 888 From: Paul Yorke Date: 12/31/1998
Subject: Linked web address
To make a linked web address in your note all you need to do is include
the http:
part of the address. Now it wont work in all mail tools but most folks
will be
able to click on the web address and be zapped right to it. Here is two

examples. The only difference at my end is on one I am typing the full
address including
the http and on the other one I am only typing in www....
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/
www.trainweb.org/s-trains/

If you have a web page you should include it in your signature file.
Thats the two or three lines that appear automatically at the bottem of
each note. In my Netscape the signature file is a simple text file that
get referenced under Edit/Preferences/Mail&news/Idenity/Signature.


--
Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl.
American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)
Group: S-Trains Message: 889 From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx Date: 12/31/1998
Subject: Hello in Florida
I'll be traveling to the Tampa/St Pete/Clearwater area once or twice a
month in 1999. Is there anyone down there that wouldn't mind an occasional
visit from a fellow AF S-Gauger?
Group: S-Trains Message: 890 From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton Date: 12/31/1998
Subject: Chris Zizzo
Regarding your article in today's S-Trains.......WOW!!! Very impressive,
so well thought out! Your knowledge of S is so broad that I do not have
first hand knowledge of some of the topics. However, what you wrote surely
"rang true" with me.

As I attempt to think through how we S gaugers can help you (and others
with ideas) expose our thoughts and feelings to the Train movers and
shakers---I believe that we need the input of all who read Paul Yorke's
webpage. Why don't we poll our S fan friends without computers, for their
ideas, talk among ourselves, and then help Paul or Chris Zizzo develop a
statement from the entire group.

Numbers talk. Add the 350 subscribers and all our friends and contacts,
and you're looking at maybe 700-1000 enthusiasts, for starters. That
number would garner the attention of anyone who is, for example, pondering
the acquisition of American Flyer from Lionel LLC.

Chris, thank you for your contribution. And Paul, thank you so much for
all your efforts in providing this fantastic S-Trains forum for us. I
stand ready to assist either of you in any way that I can.

Happy New Year to All!!!

Steve Pendleton
bestofbreed@...
Group: S-Trains Message: 891 From: Glenn Ritter Date: 12/31/1998
Subject: CRUSADER & 3rd RAIL
I am looking for another poor condtion 356 Silver Bullet to convert to a
Reading Crusader. Weaver has sent me 20 brochures to share with "O"
gauge friends. The picture is even better on the brochure. The price for
the "O" gauge set is about $1500. AM can do better than that.

I am on the message board at 3rd Rail for S Scale Brass. I also sent
them an E-Mail message.

Staying on NASG track, Glenn
Group: S-Trains Message: 892 From: Thompson, Keith Date: 12/31/1998
Subject: FW: Stock Market Report
> TODAY'S STOCK MARKET REPORT:
> Helium was up, feathers were down, Paper was stationery.
> Fluorescent tubing was dimmed in light trading, Knives were up sharply,
> Pencils lost a few points.
> Hiking equipment was trailing, and Elevators rose while Escalators
> continued their slow decline.
> Weights were up in heavy trading, Light switches were off, Mining
> equipment hit rock bottom.
> Diapers remain unchanged, Shipping lines stayed at an even keel, while the
> market for Raisins dried up.
> Coca Cola fizzled, Caterpillar stock inched up a bit, and Sun peaked at
> midday.
> Balloon prices were inflated, Scott Tissue hit a new bottom, and Eveready
> exploded in an attempt to recharge the market.
>
>
>
>
Group: S-Trains Message: 893 From: Jacques Ollivier Date: 12/31/1998
Subject: Tonka trucks
Hi all,

Two days ago while searching for a dart gun that works for my 4 yo, we
happened across some miniature tonka trucks at Toys Are Us. They are
put out by Maistro and cost $2 each. There was a pick up, a dump
truck, a grader and one other. I bought the trucks. The pick up is
die cast and a little tall but looks good with my RC fleet. The dump
truck looks mid 50s and was right on with my AHL trucks. They look a
little toylike but that doesn't bother me a bit since I run Flyer.

They're worth a look. The price is right!

Jacques

P.S. Paul, why isn't my info on the survey?
Group: S-Trains Message: 894 From: David Dewey Date: 12/31/1998
Subject: Re: Tonka trucks
And the Grader makes a neat flatcar load! I bought three of them (all they
had) at my local Raleys ( a grocery 'superstore') last year, CHEAP! BTW, I
was at a Toy Liquidator store, and asked about them, as they had lots of
Maisto stuff, the clerk claims the grader was never packaged seperately.
Hmmm........
S'
David D.
Group: S-Trains Message: 895 From: Roger Hinds Date: 12/31/1998
Subject: Track porducts
For those of you that ordered my track polish & oil. I have ordered a
new supply. I hope to continue shipping soon.

Nice stock report from Keith. :o)

Roger
Group: S-Trains Message: 896 From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx Date: 12/31/1998
Subject: S Mod
>>S-Mod Operators: We need your HELP!
There are probably some newbees out there who are struggling with where
to begin in designing a S-Mod module. You can help them by sending a
sketch of some basic module track plans to me. I will add them to the
S-Mod section of my website.
Thanks.
--
Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl.
American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers
http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)<<
=====================================================
I would also like to have track plans; simple to complex, along
with photos, for the Dispatch Corner Module column. Some guys
in Syracuse have agreed to write about their modules. I hope for
more volunteers. Same purpose as what Paul says.

Ted Larson



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Group: S-Trains Message: 897 From: Keith Thompson Date: 12/31/1998
Subject: Re: Tonka trucks
Hi All,

I just was at my local target and they've got these miniature Tonkas on
closeout at $1.10 ea. if you're interested. They're probably even lower
back east. -- Keith Thompson

Jacques Ollivier wrote:
>
> From: Jacques Ollivier <jolliv@...>
>
> Hi all,
>
> Two days ago while searching for a dart gun that works for my 4 yo, we
> happened across some miniature tonka trucks at Toys Are Us. They are
> put out by Maistro and cost $2 each. There was a pick up, a dump
> truck, a grader and one other. I bought the trucks. The pick up is
> die cast and a little tall but looks good with my RC fleet. The dump
> truck looks mid 50s and was right on with my AHL trucks. They look a
> little toylike but that doesn't bother me a bit since I run Flyer.
>
> They're worth a look. The price is right!
>
> Jacques
>
> P.S. Paul, why isn't my info on the survey?
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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