Messages in AquaticLife group. Page 1 of 1.

Group: AquaticLife Message: 1 From: koolkiwi_chick1 Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: goldfish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2 From: Sandy Date: 1/14/2003
Subject: Nitrite&Nitrate
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3 From: Bill Krause Date: 1/14/2003
Subject: Re: Nitrite&Nitrate
Group: AquaticLife Message: 4 From: Bill Krause Date: 1/15/2003
Subject: [Fwd: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Nitrite&Nitrate]
Group: AquaticLife Message: 5 From: Bill Krause Date: 1/16/2003
Subject: Re: Nitrite&Nitrate
Group: AquaticLife Message: 6 From: Aaron Martin Date: 1/16/2003
Subject: Re: [Freshwater Tropical Fish Aquarium] Diatomic filters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 7 From: Bill Krause Date: 1/16/2003
Subject: Re: [Freshwater Tropical Fish Aquarium] Diatomic filters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 8 From: Mr. & Mrs. David & Samantha Jackson Date: 1/19/2003
Subject: New Member with new aquarium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9 From: Mr. & Mrs. David & Samantha Jackson Date: 1/19/2003
Subject: Bacteria for ammonia transformation
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10 From: Bill Krause Date: 1/19/2003
Subject: Re: Bacteria for ammonia transformation
Group: AquaticLife Message: 11 From: Bill Krause Date: 1/20/2003
Subject: Re: New Member with new aquarium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 12 From: JennyNumberOne Date: 2/7/2003
Subject: Re: New Member with new aquarium
Group: AquaticLife Message: 13 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 5/12/2003
Subject: New Fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 17 From: courtksalf Date: 7/2/2003
Subject: hello
Group: AquaticLife Message: 18 From: courtksalf Date: 7/3/2003
Subject: molly labor?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 19 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 7/7/2003
Subject: Raising Brine Shrimp
Group: AquaticLife Message: 20 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 7/8/2003
Subject: too many snails?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 21 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 7/18/2003
Subject: Re: molly labor?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 22 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 8/6/2003
Subject: August update
Group: AquaticLife Message: 23 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 8/7/2003
Subject: A question about breeding
Group: AquaticLife Message: 24 From: vivacious_vixen63 Date: 8/8/2003
Subject: Hi Aaron
Group: AquaticLife Message: 25 From: syokoiboi Date: 8/10/2003
Subject: FM & SD Betta breeders out there?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 26 From: courtksalf Date: 8/12/2003
Subject: long story-a hopeful rescue
Group: AquaticLife Message: 27 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 9/9/2003
Subject: fish freaking out
Group: AquaticLife Message: 28 From: Carey Date: 9/24/2003
Subject: New to Molly Care - Help!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 29 From: Aaron Martin Date: 9/25/2003
Subject: Re: New to Molly Care - Help!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 30 From: Carey Walker Date: 9/25/2003
Subject: Re: New to Molly Care - Help!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 31 From: Aaron Martin Date: 10/9/2003
Subject: yahoo groups
Group: AquaticLife Message: 32 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 10/11/2003
Subject: Salted Fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 33 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 10/11/2003
Subject: Use and Application of Salt in Aquaculture
Group: AquaticLife Message: 34 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 10/11/2003
Subject: Salinity levels of 'fresh'water tanks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 35 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 10/11/2003
Subject: Cherry Barb
Group: AquaticLife Message: 36 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 10/11/2003
Subject: 'trained' fish
Group: AquaticLife Message: 37 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 10/11/2003
Subject: Substrate and Fertilization Introduction
Group: AquaticLife Message: 38 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 10/11/2003
Subject: Let There Be Light!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 39 From: Trudy Ginest Date: 10/11/2003
Subject: too many snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 40 From: a2kelley Date: 10/12/2003
Subject: community suggestions?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 41 From: Aaron Martin Date: 10/12/2003
Subject: Re: community suggestions?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 42 From: Aaron Martin Date: 10/12/2003
Subject: Re: too many snails
Group: AquaticLife Message: 43 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 10/15/2003
Subject: Fishy social climbers change size and sex
Group: AquaticLife Message: 44 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 10/15/2003
Subject: What To Do When The Power Goes Out
Group: AquaticLife Message: 45 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 10/22/2003
Subject: power compact flourescent lighting
Group: AquaticLife Message: 46 From: Aaron Martin Date: 10/30/2003
Subject: September News from The Farm
Group: AquaticLife Message: 47 From: Aaron Martin Date: 10/30/2003
Subject: News from The Farm
Group: AquaticLife Message: 48 From: Aaron Martin Date: 10/31/2003
Subject: Basics of Fish Care
Group: AquaticLife Message: 49 From: Aaron Martin Date: 11/2/2003
Subject: Re: Fish Question ( HM & SD Betta Breeders )
Group: AquaticLife Message: 50 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 11/2/2003
Subject: beginner Betta breeding ?'s
Group: AquaticLife Message: 51 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 11/2/2003
Subject: breeding Anabantoids
Group: AquaticLife Message: 52 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 11/15/2003
Subject: Welcome to Mike Reed and introducing M. Reed Enterprises & the Mont
Group: AquaticLife Message: 54 From: Aaron Martin Date: 11/22/2003
Subject: A Sunset Fire Twinbar Mickey Mouse Swordtail?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 55 From: Mike Date: 11/24/2003
Subject: Bay Area fish clubs
Group: AquaticLife Message: 56 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 11/25/2003
Subject: Re: Bay Area fish clubs
Group: AquaticLife Message: 57 From: sunil kamath Date: 11/25/2003
Subject: New Member needs clarifications !
Group: AquaticLife Message: 58 From: albertolindesign Date: 11/26/2003
Subject: Hi! and a plea for help!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 59 From: sunil kamath Date: 11/26/2003
Subject: Re: Hi! and a plea for help!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 60 From: Tom Reagin Date: 11/26/2003
Subject: Re: Hi! and a plea for help!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 61 From: anthony carey Date: 11/26/2003
Subject: Re: Hi! and a plea for help!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 62 From: anthony carey Date: 11/26/2003
Subject: Re: New Member needs clarifications !
Group: AquaticLife Message: 63 From: Alberto Bertolin Date: 11/27/2003
Subject: You are all wonderfull! Thank you!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 64 From: Heather Date: 11/27/2003
Subject: Re: You are all wonderfull! Thank you!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 65 From: ~Kelly~ Date: 11/28/2003
Subject: Hi there, I am new!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 66 From: Tom Reagin Date: 11/28/2003
Subject: Re: Hi there, I am new!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 67 From: ~Kelly~ Date: 11/28/2003
Subject: Re: Tom
Group: AquaticLife Message: 68 From: PRABHU G P L Date: 11/28/2003
Subject: Re: New Member needs clarifications !
Group: AquaticLife Message: 69 From: goodlipk Date: 11/29/2003
Subject: Ammonia reducing agent­
Group: AquaticLife Message: 70 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 11/29/2003
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Ammonia reducing agent­
Group: AquaticLife Message: 71 From: amalthea23 Date: 11/29/2003
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Ammonia reducing agent­
Group: AquaticLife Message: 72 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 11/30/2003
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Ammonia reducing agent­
Group: AquaticLife Message: 73 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 11/30/2003
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Ammonia reducing agent­
Group: AquaticLife Message: 74 From: amalthea23 Date: 11/30/2003
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Ammonia reducing agent­
Group: AquaticLife Message: 75 From: amalthea23 Date: 11/30/2003
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Ammonia reducing agent­
Group: AquaticLife Message: 76 From: Dom Date: 11/30/2003
Subject: Re: Tom
Group: AquaticLife Message: 77 From: CHRIS Date: 11/30/2003
Subject: Re: Tom
Group: AquaticLife Message: 78 From: Dom Date: 11/30/2003
Subject: Re: New Member needs clarifications !
Group: AquaticLife Message: 79 From: sunil kamath Date: 11/30/2003
Subject: Re: New Member needs clarifications !
Group: AquaticLife Message: 80 From: Dom Date: 11/30/2003
Subject: Re: New Member needs clarifications !
Group: AquaticLife Message: 81 From: Aaron Martin Date: 11/30/2003
Subject: Re: Hi there, I am new!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 82 From: sunil kamath Date: 12/1/2003
Subject: Re: New Member needs clarifications !
Group: AquaticLife Message: 83 From: Tom Reagin Date: 12/1/2003
Subject: Re: Tom
Group: AquaticLife Message: 84 From: Naga Date: 12/1/2003
Subject: Intro
Group: AquaticLife Message: 85 From: Aaron Martin Date: 12/1/2003
Subject: Re: Intro
Group: AquaticLife Message: 86 From: Tom Reagin Date: 12/1/2003
Subject: Re: Ammonia_reducing_agent­
Group: AquaticLife Message: 87 From: ~Kelly~ Date: 12/1/2003
Subject: Re: Tom
Group: AquaticLife Message: 88 From: ~Kelly~ Date: 12/1/2003
Subject: Re: Tom
Group: AquaticLife Message: 89 From: ~Kelly~ Date: 12/1/2003
Subject: Re: Hi there, I am new!!/AARON
Group: AquaticLife Message: 90 From: Dom Date: 12/1/2003
Subject: Re: Tom
Group: AquaticLife Message: 91 From: ~Kelly~ Date: 12/1/2003
Subject: Re: Tom
Group: AquaticLife Message: 92 From: Dom Date: 12/1/2003
Subject: Re: Tom
Group: AquaticLife Message: 93 From: John Russo Date: 12/2/2003
Subject: Hey everyone
Group: AquaticLife Message: 94 From: Aaron Martin Date: 12/2/2003
Subject: Re: Hey everyone
Group: AquaticLife Message: 95 From: John Russo Date: 12/2/2003
Subject: Re: Hey everyone
Group: AquaticLife Message: 96 From: Christina Date: 12/2/2003
Subject: Cory Cat Fry
Group: AquaticLife Message: 97 From: Christina Date: 12/2/2003
Subject: HI I'm New!!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 98 From: Dom Date: 12/2/2003
Subject: Re: Hey everyone
Group: AquaticLife Message: 99 From: Aaron Martin Date: 12/3/2003
Subject: Re: HI I'm New!!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 100 From: Kelly Date: 12/3/2003
Subject: Slight amonia problem!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 101 From: amalthea23 Date: 12/3/2003
Subject: Re: Slight amonia problem!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 102 From: ~Kelly~ Date: 12/3/2003
Subject: Re: Slight amonia problem!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 103 From: M Reed Enterprises Date: 12/3/2003
Subject: Re: Slight amonia problem!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 104 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 12/3/2003
Subject: Re: Slight amonia problem!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 105 From: amalthea23 Date: 12/3/2003
Subject: Re: Slight amonia problem!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 106 From: Dom Date: 12/3/2003
Subject: Re: HI I'm New!!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 107 From: Dom Date: 12/3/2003
Subject: Re: Slight amonia problem!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 108 From: Naga Date: 12/3/2003
Subject: Re: Intro
Group: AquaticLife Message: 109 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 12/3/2003
Subject: Re: Slight amonia problem!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 110 From: amalthea23 Date: 12/3/2003
Subject: Re: Slight amonia problem!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 111 From: sunil kamath Date: 12/3/2003
Subject: New tank for breeding
Group: AquaticLife Message: 112 From: Dom Date: 12/4/2003
Subject: Re: Slight amonia problem!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 113 From: Dom Date: 12/4/2003
Subject: Re: New tank for breeding
Group: AquaticLife Message: 114 From: Dom Date: 12/4/2003
Subject: Pet Expo in Malaysia.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 115 From: sunil kamath Date: 12/4/2003
Subject: Re: New tank for breeding
Group: AquaticLife Message: 116 From: M Reed Enterprises Date: 12/4/2003
Subject: Re: Slight amonia problem!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 117 From: amalthea23 Date: 12/4/2003
Subject: Re: Slight amonia problem!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 118 From: amalthea23 Date: 12/4/2003
Subject: Re: Slight amonia problem!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 119 From: M Reed Enterprises Date: 12/4/2003
Subject: Re: Slight amonia problem!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 120 From: ~Kelly~ Date: 12/4/2003
Subject: Re: Slight amonia problem!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 121 From: Kelly Date: 12/4/2003
Subject: Black Moor's???
Group: AquaticLife Message: 122 From: Aaron Martin Date: 12/4/2003
Subject: Re: Slight amonia problem!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 123 From: Aaron Martin Date: 12/4/2003
Subject: Re: New tank for breeding
Group: AquaticLife Message: 124 From: Dom Date: 12/4/2003
Subject: Re: New tank for breeding
Group: AquaticLife Message: 125 From: Aaron Martin Date: 12/6/2003
Subject: Re: Hi there, I am new!!/AARON
Group: AquaticLife Message: 127 From: Kelly Date: 12/7/2003
Subject: Sponge Filter??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 128 From: ~Kelly~ Date: 12/7/2003
Subject: Re: Hi there, I am new!!/AARON
Group: AquaticLife Message: 129 From: Heather Date: 12/7/2003
Subject: Re: Sponge Filter??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 130 From: Kelly Date: 12/8/2003
Subject: WOW am I confused!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 131 From: Heather Date: 12/8/2003
Subject: Re: WOW am I confused!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 132 From: Kelly Date: 12/8/2003
Subject: Missing an eye!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 133 From: M Reed Enterprises Date: 12/8/2003
Subject: Re: Missing an eye!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 134 From: ~Kelly~ Date: 12/8/2003
Subject: Re: Missing an eye!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 135 From: Aileen Pettigrew Date: 12/8/2003
Subject: Re: WOW am I confused!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 136 From: M Reed Enterprises Date: 12/8/2003
Subject: Re: Missing an eye!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 137 From: Dom Date: 12/8/2003
Subject: Re: Missing an eye!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 138 From: Dom Date: 12/8/2003
Subject: Re: Sponge Filter??
Group: AquaticLife Message: 139 From: ~Kelly~ Date: 12/9/2003
Subject: Re: Missing an eye!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 140 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 12/9/2003
Subject: Re: Missing an eye!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 141 From: Aaron Martin Date: 12/9/2003
Subject: Re: Freshwater Crabs/(non-fish tank)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 142 From: ~Kelly~ Date: 12/9/2003
Subject: Re: Freshwater Crabs/(non-fish tank)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 143 From: Heather Date: 12/9/2003
Subject: Re: Freshwater Crabs/(non-fish tank)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 144 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 12/9/2003
Subject: more Algae Eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 145 From: Dom Date: 12/9/2003
Subject: Re: Missing an eye!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 146 From: Dom Date: 12/9/2003
Subject: Re: Freshwater Crabs/(non-fish tank)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 147 From: Dom Date: 12/9/2003
Subject: Re: more Algae Eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 148 From: sunil kamath Date: 12/9/2003
Subject: Re: more Algae Eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 149 From: colonleywife Date: 12/10/2003
Subject: cotton or white paint dots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 150 From: daniel_roachus Date: 12/10/2003
Subject: Re: more Algae Eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 151 From: Aaron Martin Date: 12/10/2003
Subject: Re: cotton or white paint dots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 152 From: amalthea23 Date: 12/10/2003
Subject: Re: cotton or white paint dots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 153 From: Dom Date: 12/10/2003
Subject: Re: cotton or white paint dots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 156 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 12/11/2003
Subject: Re: the Molly, to salt of not to salt, that is the question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 157 From: colonleywife Date: 12/11/2003
Subject: Re: cotton or white paint dots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 158 From: colonleywife Date: 12/11/2003
Subject: Re: cotton or white paint dots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 159 From: amalthea23 Date: 12/11/2003
Subject: Re: cotton or white paint dots
Group: AquaticLife Message: 160 From: scrapinacox Date: 12/11/2003
Subject: Cory Cat Fry: Moving them
Group: AquaticLife Message: 161 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 12/12/2003
Subject: Re: more Algae Eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 162 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 12/12/2003
Subject: Re: more Algae Eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 163 From: Dom Date: 12/12/2003
Subject: Re: more Algae Eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 164 From: Aaron Martin Date: 12/12/2003
Subject: Re: more Algae Eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 165 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 12/12/2003
Subject: Re: more Algae Eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 166 From: Kelly Date: 12/14/2003
Subject: Fish Confusion
Group: AquaticLife Message: 167 From: colonleywife Date: 12/14/2003
Subject: Dust? Algae? Eggs?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 168 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 12/14/2003
Subject: Re: Fish Confusion
Group: AquaticLife Message: 169 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 12/14/2003
Subject: Re: Dust? Algae? Eggs?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 170 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 12/14/2003
Subject: Re: Dust? Algae? Eggs?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 171 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 12/14/2003
Subject: The Octopus's Garden ~ A great lfs
Group: AquaticLife Message: 172 From: amalthea23 Date: 12/14/2003
Subject: Re: The Octopus's Garden ~ A great lfs
Group: AquaticLife Message: 173 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 12/14/2003
Subject: What/Where is your favorite Local Fish Store (lfs) ?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 174 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 12/14/2003
Subject: Re: What/Where is your favorite Local Fish S...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 175 From: Rob And Joyce Date: 12/15/2003
Subject: Re: more Algae Eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 176 From: vincer12001 Date: 12/15/2003
Subject: http://www.ukcaa.co.uk/rarefish/index.php?act=idx
Group: AquaticLife Message: 177 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 12/16/2003
Subject: Re: more Algae Eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 178 From: PRABHU G P L Date: 12/16/2003
Subject: Size of Kuhli loach
Group: AquaticLife Message: 179 From: amalthea23 Date: 12/16/2003
Subject: Re: more Algae Eaters
Group: AquaticLife Message: 180 From: amalthea23 Date: 12/16/2003
Subject: Re: Size of Kuhli loach
Group: AquaticLife Message: 181 From: aaron_r_martin@hotmail.com Date: 12/16/2003
Subject: planted substrate questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 182 From: PRABHU G P L Date: 12/17/2003
Subject: Beard Algae-black green
Group: AquaticLife Message: 183 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 12/17/2003
Subject: Re: Beard Algae-black green
Group: AquaticLife Message: 184 From: dreamz64@runbox.com Date: 12/17/2003
Subject: Danio's
Group: AquaticLife Message: 185 From: polarisdude375@yahoo.com Date: 12/17/2003
Subject: Re: Danio's
Group: AquaticLife Message: 186 From: polarisdude375@yahoo.com Date: 12/17/2003
Subject: Re: planted substrate questions
Group: AquaticLife Message: 187 From: sunil kamath Date: 12/17/2003
Subject: Re: Beard Algae-black green
Group: AquaticLife Message: 188 From: sunil kamath Date: 12/17/2003
Subject: Re: Danio's
Group: AquaticLife Message: 189 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 12/18/2003
Subject: Re: Beard Algae-black green
Group: AquaticLife Message: 190 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 12/18/2003
Subject: Re: Danio's
Group: AquaticLife Message: 191 From: John Russo Date: 12/18/2003
Subject: Re: Danio's
Group: AquaticLife Message: 192 From: PRABHU G P L Date: 12/18/2003
Subject: Re: Beard Algae-black green
Group: AquaticLife Message: 193 From: Heather Date: 12/18/2003
Subject: Re: Danio's
Group: AquaticLife Message: 194 From: ~~~Kelly~~~ Date: 12/18/2003
Subject: Re: Danio's
Group: AquaticLife Message: 195 From: Sarah Date: 12/18/2003
Subject: Hi, We are new!!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 196 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 12/18/2003
Subject: Re: Hi, We are new!!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 197 From: daniel_roachus Date: 12/18/2003
Subject: Re: Hi, We are new!!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 198 From: Sarah Date: 12/18/2003
Subject: Re: Hi, We are new!!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 199 From: PRABHU G P L Date: 12/19/2003
Subject: Re: Hi, We are new!!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 200 From: Sarah Date: 12/19/2003
Subject: New Fish!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 201 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 12/19/2003
Subject: Re: New Fish!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 202 From: Sarah Date: 12/19/2003
Subject: Re: New Fish!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 203 From: scrapinacox Date: 12/19/2003
Subject: Cory Cat Question
Group: AquaticLife Message: 204 From: Alberto Bertolin Date: 12/19/2003
Subject: EHIEM Filter confusion (30 gallon freshwater setup)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 205 From: Shan Crager Date: 12/20/2003
Subject: Hello everyone!!!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 206 From: better_bettas Date: 12/22/2003
Subject: BlueBettaUSA.com
Group: AquaticLife Message: 207 From: amalthea23 Date: 12/22/2003
Subject: Re: BlueBettaUSA.com
Group: AquaticLife Message: 208 From: better_bettas Date: 12/22/2003
Subject: Re: BlueBettaUSA.com
Group: AquaticLife Message: 209 From: amalthea23 Date: 12/22/2003
Subject: Re: BlueBettaUSA.com
Group: AquaticLife Message: 210 From: Dom Date: 12/22/2003
Subject: Re: BlueBettaUSA.com
Group: AquaticLife Message: 211 From: amalthea23 Date: 12/22/2003
Subject: Re: BlueBettaUSA.com
Group: AquaticLife Message: 212 From: Dom Date: 12/22/2003
Subject: Re: Hi, We are new!!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 213 From: Dom Date: 12/23/2003
Subject: Re: EHIEM Filter confusion (30 gallon freshwater setup)
Group: AquaticLife Message: 214 From: Dom Date: 12/23/2003
Subject: Re: New Fish!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 215 From: better_bettas Date: 12/23/2003
Subject: Re: BlueBettaUSA.com
Group: AquaticLife Message: 216 From: Kelly Date: 12/23/2003
Subject: HELP... Swordtail problems!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 217 From: Sarah Date: 12/23/2003
Subject: Re: HELP... Swordtail problems!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 218 From: blake rea Date: 12/25/2003
Subject: Re: Hi, We are new!!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 219 From: Sarah Date: 12/25/2003
Subject: Re: Hi, We are new!!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 220 From: ~~~Kelly~~~ Date: 12/25/2003
Subject: An ALL Guppy Tank?????
Group: AquaticLife Message: 221 From: PRABHU G P L Date: 12/25/2003
Subject: Re: Hi, We are new!!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 222 From: PRABHU G P L Date: 12/25/2003
Subject: Re: An ALL Guppy Tank?????
Group: AquaticLife Message: 223 From: Dom Date: 12/28/2003
Subject: Re: An ALL Guppy Tank?????
Group: AquaticLife Message: 224 From: Dom Date: 12/28/2003
Subject: Re: Hi, We are new!!!!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 225 From: J. Clower-Brown Date: 12/29/2003
Subject: New member!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 226 From: Susan Cole Date: 12/29/2003
Subject: Help with my tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 227 From: Dom Date: 12/29/2003
Subject: Re: Help with my tank
Group: AquaticLife Message: 228 From: Dom Date: 12/29/2003
Subject: Re: New member!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 229 From: Jen Clower-Brown Date: 12/29/2003
Subject: Re: New member!
Group: AquaticLife Message: 230 From: Jeff Date: 12/30/2003
Subject: Newbie with no experience
Group: AquaticLife Message: 231 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 12/30/2003
Subject: Re: Newbie with no experience
Group: AquaticLife Message: 232 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 12/30/2003
Subject: Re: Newbie with no experience
Group: AquaticLife Message: 233 From: PRABHU G P L Date: 12/31/2003
Subject: Best wishes for the new year 2004



Group: AquaticLife Message: 1 From: koolkiwi_chick1 Date: 11/14/2002
Subject: goldfish
Hi there aaron.

neat site you have here. i have enjoyed most the pictures you have
of the different fish..

lol


Karyn
Group: AquaticLife Message: 2 From: Sandy Date: 1/14/2003
Subject: Nitrite&Nitrate
I'm having a heck of a time getting these levels back down after
having Ick in my tank. I recently put NitraZorb in my tank and it has
done wonders for the Ammonia level but nothing for the other N&N can
anyone help me with ideas other then restarting my tank from scratch?
Sandy in CA

Nitrite&Nitrate
Group: AquaticLife Message: 3 From: Bill Krause Date: 1/14/2003
Subject: Re: Nitrite&Nitrate
Sandy,
        I think the first thing to do is a partial water change. The will reduce the amount of medication in the tank and mabee get rid of some remaining ich if there are any left after treatment. The second things is to get some fresh activated charcoal into the filter system. That will help take the remaining medication out of the tank. Finally add some nitifying bacteria to the aquarium. Several commercial preperations are available, liquid is most common but I prefer dry because of better storage characteristics. Getting rid of the ammonia is only a very short term fix. The key is to get the tank back to some sort of natural balance. Ultimately getting rid of ammonia doesn't do much good if you can't reduce the nitite levels and that isn't easy to do without help from bacteria.

                                            Bill Krause

Sandy wrote:
I'm having a heck of a time getting these levels back down after
having Ick in my tank. I recently put NitraZorb in my tank and it has
done wonders for the Ammonia level but nothing for the other N&N can
anyone help me with ideas other then restarting my tank from scratch?
Sandy in CA

Nitrite&Nitrate




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Group: AquaticLife Message: 4 From: Bill Krause Date: 1/15/2003
Subject: [Fwd: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Nitrite&Nitrate]
Sorry I meant to end the reply to the group as well as Sandy.

                                        Bill Krause

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Nitrite&Nitrate
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 18:54:25 -0800
From: Bill Krause <bkrause@...>
To: SandysGrin <sandysgrin@...>
References: <20030115055013.26049.qmail@...>


Sandy,
        What size tank and how many fish do you have?? Were the ammonia, nitite and nitrate levels OK before treatment for ICH?? Is it practical to transfer the fish to other tanks for a while after doing the complete takedown?? The problem here is that if you do a complete take down it will almost as if starting with a new tank and it can take a number of weeks for the tank to cycle and reach a natural balance. Ammonia levels can be controled as you did but its much harder to control nitite and nitrate by artificial means. Is it possible there is a decaying mass such as a dead fish hiden somewhere in the aquarium?? Do you have any experience with Diatomic filters??  These can be used to treat ICH withought chemicals do an excellent job of removing organic matter, particularly very small to microscopic organic material from aquariums.

                                                    Bill

SandysGrin wrote:

Thanks for your reply Bill, I have done all those items you mentioned and nothing has helped. All I can think of to do is the 100% water change with full tank scrub. But I know this is hard on the fish but yet so is nitrite above 5.0.

sandy

 Bill Krause <bkrause@...> wrote:

Sandy,
I think the first thing to do is a partial water change. The
will reduce the amount of medication in the tank and mabee get rid of
some remaining ich if there are any left after treatment. The second
things is to get some fresh activated charcoal into the filter system.
That will help take the remaining medication out of the tank. Finally
add some nitifying bacteria to the aquarium. Several commercial
preperations are available, liquid is most common but I prefer dry
because of better storage characteristics. Getting rid of the ammonia is
only a very short term fix. The key is to get the tank back to some sort
of natural balance. Ultimately getting rid of ammonia doesn't do much
good if you can't reduce the nitite levels and that isn't easy to do
without help from bacteria.

Bill Krause

Sandy wrote:

> I'm having a heck of a time getting these levels back down after
> having Ick in my tank. I recently put NitraZorb in my tank and it has
> done wonders for the Ammonia level but nothing for the other N&N can
> anyone help me with ideas other then restarting my tank from scratch?
> Sandy in CA
>
> Nitrite&Nitrate
>
>
>
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Group: AquaticLife Message: 5 From: Bill Krause Date: 1/16/2003
Subject: Re: Nitrite&Nitrate
Sandy,
        I appreciate your situation and indeed it does seem to be a puzzle but my best conclusion is that it related to cycling. The natural proccess by which bacteria convert ammonia to nitite and then to nitate. I think the element lacking now is the bacteria. They will either come as the tank ages or by adding them. Do the fish seem distressed?? Since ammonia and nitites interfere with fishes ability to rspirate some relief might be acheived by maximizing airation in the aquarium. Keep me posted on the progress.

                                                Bill

SandysGrin wrote:

Hello Bill and All, My tank is 20 gallon and I didn’t really check N & N levels or Ammonia levels until I started having problems this last time. so Im not sure what the levels were before. I have had Fish Aquariums for at least last 20 yrs off and on. Only now have I gotten into all stuff lol. What do I have in my tank? 3 Apple snails,2 bala sharks, 5 kuli loaches, 1 dogo,1 danio, 11 ghost Ship ( Had 12 last night but lost one maybe due to the 2/3 water change I did, I check the Nitrite level after the water change it shot through the roof. GRRRR) seems nothing helps. Oh and I have a large 6 inch Plecostomus,. AS for everything else in the tank I have either removed it or replaced it ie.... New rocks, no plants-3 filter with NitraZorb in it. There was (as of this morning) a lava rock I had put in there and I just removed it. Other then that I cant imagine what’s causing these high levels. A puzzle to be solved :)

sandy in Nitriteland

 Bill Krause <bkrause@...> wrote:

Sandy,
        What size tank and how many fish do you have?? Were the ammonia, nitite and nitrate levels OK before treatment for ICH?? Is it practical to transfer the fish to other tanks for a while after doing the complete takedown?? The problem here is that if you do a complete take down it will almost as if starting with a new tank and it can take a number of weeks for the tank to cycle and reach a natural balance. Ammonia levels can be controled as you did but its much harder to control nitite and nitrate by artificial means. Is it possible there is a decaying mass such as a dead fish hiden somewhere in the aquarium?? Do you have any experience with Diatomic filters??  These can be used to treat ICH withought chemicals do an excellent job of removing organic matter, particularly very small to microscopic organic material from aquariums.

                                                    Bill

SandysGrin wrote:

Thanks for your reply Bill, I have done all those items you mentioned and nothing has helped. All I can think of to do is the 100% water change with full tank scrub. But I know this is hard on the fish but yet so is nitrite above 5.0.

sandy

 Bill Krause <bkrause@...> wrote:

Sandy,
I think the first thing to do is a partial water change. The
will reduce the amount of medication in the tank and mabee get rid of
some remaining ich if there are any left after treatment. The second
things is to get some fresh activated charcoal into the filter system.
That will help take the remaining medication out of the tank. Finally
add some nitifying bacteria to the aquarium. Several commercial
preperations are available, liquid is most common but I prefer dry
because of better storage characteristics. Getting rid of the ammonia is
only a very short term fix. The key is to get the tank back to some sort
of natural balance. Ultimately getting rid of ammonia doesn't do much
good if you can't reduce the nitite levels and that isn't easy to do
without help from bacteria.

Bill Krause

Sandy wrote:

> I'm having a heck of a time getting these levels back down after
> having Ick in my tank. I recently put NitraZorb in my tank and it has
> done wonders for the Ammonia level but nothing for the other N&N can
> anyone help me with ideas other then restarting my tank from scratch?
> Sandy in CA
>
> Nitrite&Nitrate
>
>
>


SandyGrin in CA





SandyGrin in CA



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Group: AquaticLife Message: 6 From: Aaron Martin Date: 1/16/2003
Subject: Re: [Freshwater Tropical Fish Aquarium] Diatomic filters

Hi all, its been great to see all the helpful info,

Bill ~ what are Diatomic filters?

I have a 55 gallon tank w/ 80 pounds of gravel and 2 powerheads (402 & 802) for the undergravel filter, an AquaClear 500 and a basic mechanical filter that was included in the tank kit from WalMart. what are the recommended methods for filters?

"Diatomic filters??  These can be used to treat ICH withought chemicals do an excellent job of removing organic matter, particularly very small to microscopic organic material from aquariums.

                                                    Bill"



----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Krause
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 20:16:17 -0800
To: SandysGrin , FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Nitrite&Nitrate

Sandy,
        I appreciate your situation and indeed it does seem to be a puzzle but my best conclusion is that it related to cycling. The natural proccess by which bacteria convert ammonia to nitite and then to nitate. I think the element lacking now is the bacteria. They will either come as the tank ages or by adding them. Do the fish seem distressed?? Since ammonia and nitites interfere with fishes ability to rspirate some relief might be acheived by maximizing airation in the aquarium. Keep me posted on the progress.

                                                Bill

SandysGrin wrote:

Hello Bill and All, My tank is 20 gallon and I didn’t really check N & N levels or Ammonia levels until I started having problems this last time. so Im not sure what the levels were before. I have had Fish Aquariums for at least last 20 yrs off and on. Only now have I gotten into all stuff lol. What do I have in my tank? 3 Apple snails,2 bala sharks, 5 kuli loaches, 1 dogo,1 danio, 11 ghost Ship ( Had 12 last night but lost one maybe due to the 2/3 water change I did, I check the Nitrite level after the water change it shot through the roof. GRRRR) seems nothing helps. Oh and I have a large 6 inch Plecostomus,. AS for everything else in the tank I have either removed it or replaced it ie.... New rocks, no plants-3 filter with NitraZorb in it. There was (as of this morning) a lava rock I had put in there and I just removed it. Other then that I cant imagine what’s causing these high levels. A puzzle to be solved :)

sandy in Nitriteland

 Bill Krause wrote:

Sandy,
        What size tank and how many fish do you have?? Were the ammonia, nitite and nitrate levels OK before treatment for ICH?? Is it practical to transfer the fish to other tanks for a while after doing the complete takedown?? The problem here is that if you do a complete take down it will almost as if starting with a new tank and it can take a number of weeks for the tank to cycle and reach a natural balance. Ammonia levels can be controled as you did but its much harder to control nitite and nitrate by artificial means. Is it possible there is a decaying mass such as a dead fish hiden somewhere in the aquarium?? Do you have any experience with Diatomic filters??  These can be used to treat ICH withought chemicals do an excellent job of removing organic matter, particularly very small to microscopic organic material from aquariums.

                                                    Bill

SandysGrin wrote:

Thanks for your reply Bill, I have done all those items you mentioned and nothing has helped. All I can think of to do is the 100% water change with full tank scrub. But I know this is hard on the fish but yet so is nitrite above 5.0.

sandy

 Bill Krause wrote:

Sandy,
I think the first thing to do is a partial water change. The
will reduce the amount of medication in the tank and mabee get rid of
some remaining ich if there are any left after treatment. The second
things is to get some fresh activated charcoal into the filter system.
That will help take the remaining medication out of the tank. Finally
add some nitifying bacteria to the aquarium. Several commercial
preperations are available, liquid is most common but I prefer dry
because of better storage characteristics. Getting rid of the ammonia is
only a very short term fix. The key is to get the tank back to some sort
of natural balance. Ultimately getting rid of ammonia doesn't do much
good if you can't reduce the nitite levels and that isn't easy to do
without help from bacteria.

Bill Krause

Sandy wrote:

> I'm having a heck of a time getting these levels back down after
> having Ick in my tank. I recently put NitraZorb in my tank and it has
> done wonders for the Ammonia level but nothing for the other N&N can
> anyone help me with ideas other then restarting my tank from scratch?
> Sandy in CA
>
> Nitrite&Nitrate
>
>
>


SandyGrin in CA





SandyGrin in CA



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(520)981-3791 cellular
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Group: AquaticLife Message: 7 From: Bill Krause Date: 1/16/2003
Subject: Re: [Freshwater Tropical Fish Aquarium] Diatomic filters
Sorry I meant to post this to the whole group as well.

                                        Bill

Bill Krause wrote:
A Diatomic filter is a filter that uses diatomic powder as a filter medium rather than a filter cartridge or activated charcoal. Diatomic powder is made up of the skeletons of tiny microscopic organisms. The skeletons themselves are silica and thus chemically neutral. Because of their incredibly small size they can filter out things that conventional filter media can't touch like the protozoan that causes ich or algae. They cannot however filter out bacteria which are too small for even diatoms. That's good because it doesn't filter out the helpful bacteria important in converting ammonia and nitrite to nitrate but bad because while they filter out ich they will not filter out the bacteria that causes fungus. By far and away the most common diatomic filters are made by Vortex. They are not cheap, listing at from about $140-$170. But they are heavily discounted and can be had from petsmart.com for from $70-$90. Very powerful they are best used intermittently on larger aquariums. They will make your water clearer than you can ever imagine possible. Hope that helps.

                                                Bill Krause

Aaron Martin wrote:

Hi all, its been great to see all the helpful info,

Bill ~ what are Diatomic filters?

I have a 55 gallon tank w/ 80 pounds of gravel and 2 powerheads (402 & 802) for the undergravel filter, an AquaClear 500 and a basic mechanical filter that was included in the tank kit from WalMart. what are the recommended methods for filters?

"Diatomic filters??  These can be used to treat ICH withought chemicals do an excellent job of removing organic matter, particularly very small to microscopic organic material from aquariums.

                                                    Bill"



----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Krause
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 20:16:17 -0800
To: SandysGrin , FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Nitrite&Nitrate

Sandy,
        I appreciate your situation and indeed it does seem to be a puzzle but my best conclusion is that it related to cycling. The natural proccess by which bacteria convert ammonia to nitite and then to nitate. I think the element lacking now is the bacteria. They will either come as the tank ages or by adding them. Do the fish seem distressed?? Since ammonia and nitites interfere with fishes ability to rspirate some relief might be acheived by maximizing airation in the aquarium. Keep me posted on the progress.

                                                Bill

SandysGrin wrote:

Hello Bill and All, My tank is 20 gallon and I didn’t really check N & N levels or Ammonia levels until I started having problems this last time. so Im not sure what the levels were before. I have had Fish Aquariums for at least last 20 yrs off and on. Only now have I gotten into all stuff lol. What do I have in my tank? 3 Apple snails,2 bala sharks, 5 kuli loaches, 1 dogo,1 danio, 11 ghost Ship ( Had 12 last night but lost one maybe due to the 2/3 water change I did, I check the Nitrite level after the water change it shot through the roof. GRRRR) seems nothing helps. Oh and I have a large 6 inch Plecostomus,. AS for everything else in the tank I have either removed it or replaced it ie.... New rocks, no plants-3 filter with NitraZorb in it. There was (as of this morning) a lava rock I had put in there and I just removed it. Other then that I cant imagine what’s causing these high levels. A puzzle to be solved :)

sandy in Nitriteland

 Bill Krause wrote:

Sandy,
        What size tank and how many fish do you have?? Were the ammonia, nitite and nitrate levels OK before treatment for ICH?? Is it practical to transfer the fish to other tanks for a while after doing the complete takedown?? The problem here is that if you do a complete take down it will almost as if starting with a new tank and it can take a number of weeks for the tank to cycle and reach a natural balance. Ammonia levels can be controled as you did but its much harder to control nitite and nitrate by artificial means. Is it possible there is a decaying mass such as a dead fish hiden somewhere in the aquarium?? Do you have any experience with Diatomic filters??  These can be used to treat ICH withought chemicals do an excellent job of removing organic matter, particularly very small to microscopic organic material from aquariums.

                                                    Bill

SandysGrin wrote:

Thanks for your reply Bill, I have done all those items you mentioned and nothing has helped. All I can think of to do is the 100% water change with full tank scrub. But I know this is hard on the fish but yet so is nitrite above 5.0.

sandy

 Bill Krause wrote:

Sandy,
I think the first thing to do is a partial water change. The
will reduce the amount of medication in the tank and mabee get rid of
some remaining ich if there are any left after treatment. The second
things is to get some fresh activated charcoal into the filter system.
That will help take the remaining medication out of the tank. Finally
add some nitifying bacteria to the aquarium. Several commercial
preperations are available, liquid is most common but I prefer dry
because of better storage characteristics. Getting rid of the ammonia is
only a very short term fix. The key is to get the tank back to some sort
of natural balance. Ultimately getting rid of ammonia doesn't do much
good if you can't reduce the nitite levels and that isn't easy to do
without help from bacteria.

Bill Krause

Sandy wrote:

> I'm having a heck of a time getting these levels back down after
> having Ick in my tank. I recently put NitraZorb in my tank and it has
> done wonders for the Ammonia level but nothing for the other N&N can
> anyone help me with ideas other then restarting my tank from scratch?
> Sandy in CA
>
> Nitrite&Nitrate
>
>
>


SandyGrin in CA





SandyGrin in CA



Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now

Aaron R. Martin, cmt
(520)981-3791 cellular
--

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Group: AquaticLife Message: 8 From: Mr. & Mrs. David & Samantha Jackson Date: 1/19/2003
Subject: New Member with new aquarium
Hello All,

I have a 29 gallon aquarium that is about a month and a half old
now. I have one outboard filter. I have a heater that I keep at 78
degrees fahernheit. I have 2 male guppies, 3 female guppies, a large
fry of guppies about 3 weeks old, two (didn't notice until they were
almost all gone) 2 1/2 week old guppies, about 10 newborn guppies, 1
male black lyretail mollie, 2 female black lyretail mollies, 1 male
platy, 1 african dwarf frog, 1 striped raphael named victor who is
nocturnal and stays hidden in the castle, 1 pleco, one zebra danio,
and one male beta(in small bowl since he doesn't get along well with
others).
Fish I got that died quickly include 2 kuli loaches, 2 female
platies, and one pearl danio. Fish that died after I had them alive
and healthy for a while include one female guppy and one white with
black spots male sailfin mollie who I suspect died from a swim
bladder problem.
I plan to get rid of all but one female of the baby guppies. I also
plan to get two more female platies for the male platy. I want to
get a school of neon tetras too. I hope to get a couple of large
snails(maybe black and gold mystery snails). And, for my most
desired addition, I hope to eventually get a black ghost knife after
I am sure my aquarium conditions are as close to perfect as I can
get them.
I know I should be concerned about overcrowding, but exactly where
should I stop with a 29 gallon? Also, should I take special
percaution in the buying and caring of neon tetras since I have
heard they die easily? And, has anyone heard of problems with a
black ghost knife getting along with other fish like what I have
since it is much larger than anything in my aquarium? Hope someone
can fill me in on info I have not yet learned.

Thanks,
David
Group: AquaticLife Message: 9 From: Mr. & Mrs. David & Samantha Jackson Date: 1/19/2003
Subject: Bacteria for ammonia transformation
P.S. I would like to find some of this bacteria in the dry form that
bill was talking about. Can I just find it at my local wal-mart?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 10 From: Bill Krause Date: 1/19/2003
Subject: Re: Bacteria for ammonia transformation
The bacteria I got at a local pet store in the Seattle Metropolitan area but I later saw it at a Petsmart outlest. You might try their web site, petsmart.com The bacteria may briefly cloud your water but that should clear in about 24 to 36 hours. I have gotten the nitites in my 8 week old aquarium down to near zero. Nitrates are not quite there yet but nitates are far less toxic than nitites. The bacteria that convert nitites to nitrates are also slower to develop than those that convert nitites to nitrates. Once you get the the nitites under control you you should be in good shape. All this talk must be causing my old high school chemistry teacher to roll over in his grave. A word of caution in view of your earlier post. Ammonia is the the natural byproduct of fish waste so that as you increase the number of fish in your aquarium so to do you increase the amount of ammonia excreted naturally into your aquarium. In an established aquarium the bacteria ought to be able to handle the the load but at some point if you add too many fish you run the risk to outstripping the aquarium's natural ability to convert ammonia to nitite and then nitite to nitrate. The result could range from stress to even death. Some fish appear much more sensative to this than other varrieties. Another related issue is that as we add fish we naturally tend to increase the amount we feed them each time and we increase our risk over feeding. The decay of uneaten food is a big potential source of high nitite and nitate levels. Also as we increase our fish population in the finite confines of an aquarium we increase the demand  for disolved oxgen. The solution normally  is to increase the amount of airation in the aquarium. Another way of addressing the issue is to decrease the temperature slightly, still staying within the confort range of the fish in your aquarium, because cooler water can carry more dissolved oxgen than warmer water. Thus you can keep slighly more fish in an aquarium that is a few degrees cooler. Salinity is also a factor, fresh water  carries more dissolved oxgen than salt water so don't add even a little salt to an aquarium with a high fish population.

                                                Bill Krause

Mr. & Mrs. David & Samantha Jackson wrote:
P.S. I would like to find some of this bacteria in the dry form that 
bill was talking about. Can I just find it at my local wal-mart?

  

Group: AquaticLife Message: 11 From: Bill Krause Date: 1/20/2003
Subject: Re: New Member with new aquarium
The traditional rule of thumb that I was taught was 1-3 inches of fish per gallon.  There are several factors which operate within these guidelines. heavy aeration gets you closer to 3 inches per gallon and little or no aeration gets you closer to 1 inch per gallon. Slightly cooler water gets you slightly more fish. Another factor related to aeration and really more important than total gallons is surface area of the aquarium. This is the interface between between air and water and has a big impact on how much dissolved oxygen actually ends up in your aquarium. In this respect all aquariums are not created equal and total gallons can be a bit misleading. For instance a traditional 40 gallon aquarium has the same surface area as a traditional 55 gallon aquarium and the carrying capacities of the two aquariums is closer than the sheer gallon capacity of each would suggest. On the other hand a 29 gallon aquarium is a rather tall aquarium and a 20 gallon long aquarium would likely have as great or maybe even a higher carrying capacity than the much taller 29 because of a significantly greater surface area. Things like the amount of ornaments, plants and gravel are also factors. You touched on the capability issue and that is also a big factor. Aggressive fish generally need more space, especially if they are mixed with less aggressive species. Also those fish that take air directly rather than through the gills can be more crowded. For instance my 50 gallon is setup like a Southeast Asian river. It contains a large number of different variety Gouramis. These fish, like Bettas, take in air directly at the surface so in theory I could have more of them in the aquarium. Also to be considered is how does the aquarium look. I happen to think that aquariums that are jammed with fish aren't very attractive. On the other hand you certainly want to have a enough fish to make it interesting. Sounds like you have a nice community, although I don't know much about knife fish, African frogs or raphaels. Some fish are definitely more hardy than others. Loaches are among the least hardy as is I am afraid the case with Neon Tretras. Neons like warmer water, your 78 should be fine. They are terrible vulnerable to temperature drops, aggressive fish and poor water chemistry. On the other hand mollies are quite hardy. My advice on snails is to stay away from them. In reality they make more waste than they clean up and in fact are terrible scavenger, the pleco is much better. Snails tear up living plants and often bring parasites into the aquarium. If they die and you don't realize it they can pollute your aquarium. This is my opinion, but it is grounded in facts, but certainly there are those who differ with me on the subject of snails. Hope this helps.

                                    Bill Krause

Mr. & Mrs. David & Samantha Jackson wrote:
Hello All,

 I have a 29 gallon aquarium that is about a month and a half old 
now. I have one outboard filter. I have a heater that I keep at 78 
degrees fahernheit. I have 2 male guppies, 3 female guppies, a large 
fry of guppies about 3 weeks old, two (didn't notice until they were 
almost all gone) 2 1/2 week old guppies, about 10 newborn guppies, 1 
male black lyretail mollie, 2 female black lyretail mollies, 1 male 
platy, 1 african dwarf frog, 1 striped raphael named victor who is 
nocturnal and stays hidden in the castle, 1 pleco, one zebra danio, 
and one male beta(in small bowl since he doesn't get along well with 
others). 
 Fish I got that died quickly include 2 kuli loaches, 2 female 
platies, and one pearl danio. Fish that died after I had them alive 
and healthy for a while include one female guppy and one white with 
black spots male sailfin mollie who I suspect died from a swim 
bladder problem.
 I plan to get rid of all but one female of the baby guppies. I also 
plan to get two more female platies for the male platy. I want to 
get a school of neon tetras too. I hope to get a couple of large 
snails(maybe black and gold mystery snails). And, for my most 
desired addition, I hope to eventually get a black ghost knife after 
I am sure my aquarium conditions are as close to perfect as I can 
get them.
 I know I should be concerned about overcrowding, but exactly where 
should I stop with a 29 gallon? Also, should I take special 
percaution in the buying and caring of neon tetras since I have 
heard they die easily? And, has anyone heard of problems with a 
black ghost knife getting along with other fish like what I have 
since it is much larger than anything in my aquarium? Hope someone 
can fill me in on info I have not yet learned. 

Thanks,
David




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Group: AquaticLife Message: 12 From: JennyNumberOne Date: 2/7/2003
Subject: Re: New Member with new aquarium
Hi I just joined your group as I have a new 40 gallon aquarium and I'm
getting very excited about fish at the moment. This is my second
aquarium as I have also a small 10 gallon which after a few
failures with goldfish I converted to tropical and is full of
platies.
I'm currently waiting for my tank to cycle (added fish 1 and a half
weeks ago) - have not found any ammonia but now have a little nitrite
and nitrate - perhaps the used filter media I added is helping. The
water is hard and Ph about 7.8, 25 degrees C.
I have so far 4 black widow (black skirt?) tetra, 4 leopard danio and
1 male platy. I am building a fish wish list also! In the small
tank are 2 female platy one male and 6 babies in a floating beeder
tank. When the main tank is cycled I'm going to add them all and use
the small one for quarantine, and I want to get cory cats next. I
like panda cory cats but have heard they are more delicate than some -
does any one have any experience?
I'm glad to hear someone else is getting lots of baby fish - I was
worried I would get overrun after the first lot of platies, but then
the parents started eating them and the last lot all disapeared before
I caught any. I am considering putting the female that is due on
wednesday in a breeding trap but don't know if it will be too
stressful. The first lot of babies were born 3 hours after the move
from the pet shop and they are thriving so I don't suppose a breeding
trap can be any more stressful - I would get a bigger one but I have
not seen any for sale - has anyone else (in the UK!)?
I have a snail too - not sure what species but a yellow apple snail -
about one inch - it does not eat plants I saw it sitting on them but
no holes resulted. The plant eating depends on the exact species.
Last time I had a snail that died the fish ate it so that solved the
pollution problem. It is amusing to watch when it 'zooms' around -
quite fast for a snail - though the last ones were bullied by the
goldfish who nibbled their tentacles.
Hope we can share info
Jenny

--- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Mr. & Mrs.
David & Samantha Jackson <livenluv323@y...>" <livenluv323@y...> wrote:
> Hello All,
>
> I have a 29 gallon aquarium that is about a month and a half old
> now. I have one outboard filter. I have a heater that I keep at 78
> degrees fahernheit. I have 2 male guppies, 3 female guppies, a large
> fry of guppies about 3 weeks old, two (didn't notice until they were
> almost all gone) 2 1/2 week old guppies, about 10 newborn guppies, 1
> male black lyretail mollie, 2 female black lyretail mollies, 1 male
> platy, 1 african dwarf frog, 1 striped raphael named victor who is
> nocturnal and stays hidden in the castle, 1 pleco, one zebra danio,
> and one male beta(in small bowl since he doesn't get along well with
> others).
> Fish I got that died quickly include 2 kuli loaches, 2 female
> platies, and one pearl danio. Fish that died after I had them alive
> and healthy for a while include one female guppy and one white with
> black spots male sailfin mollie who I suspect died from a swim
> bladder problem.
> I plan to get rid of all but one female of the baby guppies. I also
> plan to get two more female platies for the male platy. I want to
> get a school of neon tetras too. I hope to get a couple of large
> snails(maybe black and gold mystery snails). And, for my most
> desired addition, I hope to eventually get a black ghost knife after
> I am sure my aquarium conditions are as close to perfect as I can
> get them.
> I know I should be concerned about overcrowding, but exactly where
> should I stop with a 29 gallon? Also, should I take special
> percaution in the buying and caring of neon tetras since I have
> heard they die easily? And, has anyone heard of problems with a
> black ghost knife getting along with other fish like what I have
> since it is much larger than anything in my aquarium? Hope someone
> can fill me in on info I have not yet learned.
>
> Thanks,
> David
Group: AquaticLife Message: 13 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 5/12/2003
Subject: New Fish
Hi all, its great to see so many new names here, I haven't been
active for a while as my main community tank was doing just fine. The
Neon Tetras had been spawning and laying eggs all over the 55 gallon
community tank but have slowly all dissapeared - eggs and fish, I
assume they were all eaten. I'd had 9 healthy adult Neon Tetras
several months ago. Now I have no more Neons and those were my
favorites. Im guessing if I bought more they would get eaten just the
same. In that tank are 6 of the painted Skirt Tetras- about 1.75
inches in length, 2 each pink, blue, & green(and now the store has
them in orange and purple, I was thinking of getting 2 each of those
but the color fades alot when they get big)] , 4 Corydora Catfish-
about 2.5 inches in length (2 each Emerald green & Albino), 2 male
Fancy guppies (the other 2 got bloated and died a few moths ago), 1
Male Marigold Swordtail (the other red Male Swordtail was becoming to
aggressive and constatly chasing the other so I had to give it to my
best friend), 6 Endlers Livebearers(sold as "feeder guppies"), 1 Male
red Platy. I have not actually seen the Neons get eaten, so I am
guessing it was the Catfish at night while the Neons were sleeping on
the gravel. I havent found any remains. I wonder why the Endlers
Guppies are still ok, they are 1/3 the size of the missing Neons. I
have had other fish disappear, a large Male Diamond Tetra

Any other guesses on what happened to the Neon Tetras?

So wanting to get more fish, but not wanting to risk any more Neons
getting eaten, I went and bought a bunch of different kinds I'd not
had before.

I had set up the Eclipse 12 gallon Acrylic tank system w/ water and
gravel from the main tank 1 week ago hoping this would prevent having
to wait a month to 'cycle' a new tank. Wanting to put in alot of
fish, I added the AquaClear 500 filter which holds a gallon of water
itself and is rated at 500 gallons per hour. This was a second filter
from the Main tank that was no longer being used. The tank includes a
built in wet/dry filter and bio-wheel rated at 150 gph.

The fish I added Friday night are;
5 Long Finned Leapord Danios,
3 Bumble Bee Gobys and
1 Male Betta (a beautiful specimen, blue green w/ red highlights &
95% of his fins intact)

One of the gobys attached itself to the Betta w/in 20 minutes of
being released. I put the Betta in a floting Materity tank to protect
him, but I was very disappointed that they couldn't get along. I plan
on releasing the Betta into the Main tank next month and to keep the
Gobys in the 12gallon to prevent any further attacks.

Then today I added;
5 Scissor Tail Rasboras,
3 Gold Gouramis and
3 Black & Silver Marbled Mollys (2 Males & 1 ?pregnant? Female)

One of the Male Mollies is almost all Black except the edges of his
fins about 2 mm wide silver and his gills-otherwise he is very plain
looking w/ no fancy tail, the other two are inseperable and act like
a mating pair, the other male is much bigger than the black one and
is about 60% black w/ a Sailfin & Lyre tail, the female is about 40%
black and has gold highlights about 15% the rest being Silver, she is
the smallest but looks like she could be pregnant. The 2 Males
started fighting right away so I had to isolate the all black male
since the female really liked swimming w/ the other male. This is
frustrating as the Red Platy in the Main tank looks very similar to
the Black Male Molly and I don't know if all 3 males will likely get
along in the larger tank.

I have come to the conclusion that multiple male fish of the same
species are bad company especialy w/ a female present.

Has anybody had any experience w/ keeping Male fish together?

Will such a wide variety of species all be able to co-exist
peacefully in a 55 gallon community tank?

The Danios & Rasboras are of similar shape & size and swim together
in a school, they are fast and constantly moving. The colored Skirt
Tetras stay together in the mid level and are slow and don't swim
around much unless being fed. I have an odd parade being led by the
Swordtail being chased by the Red Platy followed very closely by a
Male fancy Guppy being chased by 1 or 2 tiny Endlers, this goes on
most of the day. The Gobys mostly stay at the bottom or hang onto the
sides, so I think they will have to stay in the 12 gallon tank or
risk being eaten by the Catfish or attacking the Betta & Guppies.
The Gouramis seem to do just fine keeping to the sides of the tank,
and the pair of Mollies mostly stay in the corners. The Betta did not
like sharing his seperated space in the tank w/ the Black mollie and
began flaring his gills and attacking him, so I am concerened about
the Betta sharing the 55 gallon tank w/ all the others.

I don't know what to do, any suggestions or experienced advice?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 17 From: courtksalf Date: 7/2/2003
Subject: hello
hi i can`t wait...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 18 From: courtksalf Date: 7/3/2003
Subject: molly labor?
do mollies go into labor if so what are the signs?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 19 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 7/7/2003
Subject: Raising Brine Shrimp
Hi, does anyone have experience and or advice on raising brine shrimp?
I bought 2 ounces of them at a store that said to keep them in the
refrigerator. I have them in a 10 gallon tank unheated w/ temps
varying from 58 - 82 degrees F depending on the weather. I used
established aquarium water and added Pond salt & epsom salts, and
bakers yeast for food. I was hatching baby brine shrimp from dried
eggs for several weeks to feed the fry I am learning to breed. This
became tedius and was taking way to long between feedings. I thought
by having live brine shrimp I could have a continuos cycle of food.
Now I can't figure out how to harvest only the babys so the adults
can continue breeding.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 20 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 7/8/2003
Subject: too many snails?
how can I tell when I have too many snails? I have 3 tanks w/ live
plants, a 10 gallon fry tank, a 12 gallon & 55 gallon. The snails
appear to be Columbian Ram's Horn Snails. They started showing up
after I bought some live plants, very small at first & just a few.
Now there are dozens ranging in size from tiny little dots to large,
they are getting bigger than the marbles mixed into the gravel. The
12 gallon tank is acrylic and I haven't been able to clean the algae
w/ out scratching the surface, now the tank is crystal clear. I think
the snails are eating all the algae, so I don't want to completley
eliminate them. How can I control the population w/ out having to
smash them?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 21 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 7/18/2003
Subject: Re: molly labor?
--- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "courtksalf"
<alpacas@c...> wrote:
> do mollies go into labor if so what are the signs?


Hello, I too was curious about this subject, so I expanded upon your
original question and below is the best response I have receieved so
far.


From: "Earl" <drearlmurphy@y...>
Date: Thu Jul 17, 2003 10:11 pm
Subject: Re: fish 'labor' ?

--- In raise_breed_tropical_fish@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron R. Martin,
cmt" <anonymous122899@y...> wrote:
> do mollies, swordtails, platies & guppies go into labor? & if so
> what are the signs? I have several female livebearers that 'look
> pregnant' in my community tank. how can I tell when they are ready
> to give birth? I have had a few fish die when transfering them to
> differnt tanks while pegnant. I've read that the stress can make
> them give birth prematurely.

YES, livebearers go into labor. It lasts several hours.

The biggest problem with knowing when a livebearer is ready to drop
their fry is that the gestation period varies. Guppies gestation
period is between 28 and 43 days; Mollies gestation period is between
27 and 56 days. Offhand, I do not remember what the range for
Platies and Swordtails is, but it is close to that of Guppies.

Stress is the biggest factor in extending the livebearer's gestation
period past the normal 28 days. I have never heard of stress causing
premature birth, but just the opposite - extends the drop time.
Sometimes, stress will cause the fish not to drop the fry at all and
kills the fish.

Once you have had several fish drop their fry, you can notice some
signs, but these signs are hard for the aquarist to see the first few
times.

The first sign that the fish is about to drop is that the shape of
the abdomen will change from having a round bottom to a squarish
bottom. This happens 3 - 4 days before dropping.

The second sign is that the gavid female will become less active and
usually finds a quiet corner of the tank to hunker down in. This
usually happens 1 - 2 days before dropping.

The third sign is the resumption of activity after a day or two of
resting in the bottom corner of the tank. The fish swims either up
and down or back and forth very rapidly and stressfully looking. This
happens the day she is going to drop.

I hope this helps. Just observe the gavid female frequently and
after several biths, you will begin to recognize the signs of
oncoming labor.

Now, the best way to speed up the gestation period and get it close
to the 28th day is to put the gavid female in a large birthing
enclosure as soon as you see the black gavid spot at the back of the
fish's abdomen. If you have a fish that does not show the gavid
spot, put her in the birthing enclosure as soon as she starts getting
fat. Once you put the fish in the birthing enclosure, do not disturb
her. Observe her quietly from a distance.

A lot of guppies and swordtails, and a few mollies and platies will
die after giving birth. The stress of giving birth is just too much
for them to handle. They usually have incomplete drops and then die
between 2 hours and two days after they quit dropping fry.

To relieve the stress of giving birth, you really should tranquilize
the fish as soon as it starts the fast jerky swimming. MS-222 is the
best tranquilizer I have found. Just be careful using it. Each
species of fish has a different tolerance to the chemical. Too much
will kill the fish. For some reason, people would rather let the
fish die than tranquilize it.

Good Luck with your fish, and breeding.

Earl Murphy..........
Group: AquaticLife Message: 22 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 8/6/2003
Subject: August update
Well its sad to say, because I already miss them, but I got rid of
most my fish. I sold the Gouramies, Guppies, Danios, Rasboras,
Tetras, Corydoras and most of the Mollies. Part of the reason was to
make room for all the Swordtail fry, 11 more were born a few days
ago, bringing the total count around 55.

I also got 3 Clown Loaches a couple weeks ago to try to get rid of
all the snails, so far no luck, they have not eaten any as far as I
can tell. I have been picking out snails by hand daily, however they
seem to be breeding faster than I gan get em out. I was told the
copper treatmeant "snailacide' would damage the plants and possibly
be bad for the fry. Seeing as how I'm trying to convert to a planted
tank, that seemed like a bad option, but may be only my chance soon
if the Loaches don't serve their purpose.

I emptied all the fish & plants from the other 3 smaller tanks and
poured boiling water in to kill all the pests, snails, worms, hydra,
etc... I intend to overhaul them w/ all new substrates for a
healthier planted tank. I have been reading about Laterite, Flourite,
SeaChem Onyx gravel & sand, silica sand, silver sand, substrate
heaters, and all kinds of specialized goodies for planted aqauriums
like Co2 systems and expensive lighting. It all seems very
overwhelming to this newcomer. So far all I got is some liquid
fertilizers.

The best news is the Brine Shrimp experiment has been a huge success.
I don't have much of an idea really how it all happened. I actually
had given up on the whole thing a few weeks ago, now there are
hundreds, if not thousands, of all sizes thriving in a crowded 15
gallon plastic storage container w/ a airstone for circulation.
After the main tank was all settled in, I gave the fish a huge feast.

What I need now is help figuring out how to get rid of the rest of
the snails. Also, experienced advice on starting planted tanks is
needed.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 23 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 8/7/2003
Subject: A question about breeding
Breeding
Posted by FishLovinPiscesGirl on 8/6/2003 6:27:29 AM

I'm interested in setting up a tank for breeding. I have a 55 gallon
tank ive had for 3 wonderful years. Is there any type of fish that is
easier to tell the sex of? Or does anyone know of a site I can read
up more on breeding and finding the sex of fish before I start? thank
you


Reply-------


Livebearers are the best to start with. Swordtails, Mollys & Platys
are my favorites. Yo DO NOT ever need to buy a MALE fish to be a
breeder. ONLY buy pregnant females, if they are not pregnant at the
store they may have just givin birth or might be sterile.
Stress from transfering fish can cause them to give birth prematuely.
Once they have mated they can remain impregnated for 8 months, giving
birth every 28-35 days.
I too have a 55 gallon tank that I am successfully breeding in. I
have sold many fish to the lfs (Local Fish Store).
Before you get a bunch of fry swimming around in your tank you must
make the needed preperations.
You will need a Fish Net Breeder, about $5 from WalMart, to put the
expectant mother in to give birth.
You need lots of plants, preferably live, Java Moss is perfect for
fry to hide in and it grows real easy.
You will need to be able to feed the fry, Baby Brine Shrimp are best,
you can make your own hatchery or buy a kit cheap.
It is best to have a smaller tank, such as 10 or 20 gallon, for
Quarantine and/or grow out. The best filtration for this is a sponge
filter & air pump. When the fry are a few weeks old take them out of
the main tank and put into the grow out tank so that the Net Breeder
can be used again. By the time the 2nd batch of fry are ready to be
placed in the grow out tank, the first batch should be big enough to
be sexed and seperated to prevent inbreeding and reintroduced into
the main tank.
You will need to have a divder installed into the main tank so you
have half for male & half for females.
Please make sure that both tanks are well planted so the fry can
easily hide.
Most importantly, any new fish purchased must be quarantined for
several weeks to ensure they are healthy. Its way too often people
have a well stocked established tank destroyed by a new $0.99 fish
introduced directly into the tank not knowing it was sick. Please
don't let this happen to your breeding hobby.

I have a Yahoo page you can join with lots of info, it is

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/

What fish do you currently have?

Good luck and have fun, it is a great hobby.

Aaron
Group: AquaticLife Message: 24 From: vivacious_vixen63 Date: 8/8/2003
Subject: Hi Aaron
I'm FishLovinPiscesGirl from the other message board. Thank you again
for your help. I'm glad you offered for me to join your group. It
will be nice to have 1 place to go when I have a question. I go by
the name Vixen, and thanks again.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 25 From: syokoiboi Date: 8/10/2003
Subject: FM & SD Betta breeders out there?
Hi,
I live in the San Francisco/Bay area and wondering if there are any
breeders of Betta that have some HM's, SD's or any unusual ones they
are selling. Suggestions on contacts in my area will be great also.
Thanks,
Syokoi
Group: AquaticLife Message: 26 From: courtksalf Date: 8/12/2003
Subject: long story-a hopeful rescue
deoes anyone know how to start a salt water tank over????? thanks
Group: AquaticLife Message: 27 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 9/9/2003
Subject: fish freaking out
Hi everyone, I'm completly baffled by the way my fish are behaving.
I've had skittish cory cats when they were new to the tank, but this
is different. They are all hiding in the bottom back corners among
the plants whenever we come near. Normally, if we get w/ in a few
feet, they swim up to the top front as if asking to be fed. And they
are very well fed, I have 37 different foods for them, live, frozen,
freeze-dried, flakes, pellets, powders, granules, wafers, crisps
etc... We generally feed several times a day, every few hours or so.
I recently changed the water current by moving the powerheads output
towards the middle-front of the tank and relocating the fry net
box to the other side. On Saturday, my Mom was working near the tank
all day, and I am guessing thats what stressed them out, but they are
still hiding and are not coming up to get food.
They are in a 55 gallon, there are 2 guppies 1 ea Male & Female, 3
small male Mickey Mouse Platies, 1 adult Red Male Platy, 1 medium
male Sunset Fire Platy, 2 Clown Loaches approx. 2 inches long, 1 tiny
Bumblee bee goby - does not seem to be affected as it is always
curious & brave, 5 sister Marble Mollies that are begining to have
babies, 11 of their fry in a net box w/ 3 marigold fry (6 more of
which were let out of the net box into the community recently), 1
very large female Marigold Swordtail & about 25 of her fry that are
medium sized. The tank is moderatley planted w/ both live & plastic
plants mostly grouped into the rear corners and along the back. There
are variety of decorations for them to hide in, driftwood, caves &
rocks. There is 2 powerheads, 1 on each of the rear corners, & 1
large filter - AquaClear 500. The lighting in minimal, 2 15watt
flourescents on about 13 hours a day.
The known parameters are; Temp. - 78 degrees F., Ammonia/Ammonium &
NitrIte are @ 0, NitrAtes 20 ppm, pH 7.2, General Hardness - 13.0
dGH, Carbonate Hardness - 4 dKH, Salinity & Alkalinity - unknown.
I did lose the male Black Molly last week due to unknown disease, he
had a white patch on his chin. Not knowing what caused this I did 25%
water changes 3x's every other day for 1 week - the water is treated
tap, then treated tank w/ 11 Tablespoons of Aquarium Salt in 2
seperate glasses which the fish like taking turns swimming in. I also
just started yeterday using MelaFix, StreesCoat, FungusClear Tablets
& QuickCure, this seemed a bit much, but I observed them after each
dose to make sure there were no adverse reactions.

?- should I be doing daily water changes while using MelaFix for the
recommended 7 days?
?- Would completly covering the tank (w/lights on during the day) for
a few days give them some 'privacy' to relax?
?- What could have killed the black molly, the white patch has only
appeared on him, no others so far - I've heard of Velvet, what is
this?
?- Could changing the water current be the cause of stress & change
in their behavior?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 28 From: Carey Date: 9/24/2003
Subject: New to Molly Care - Help!
Ack! I really need some help... but I will need to start from the
beginning so you will know what is going on here:

I just wanted a simple small tank (5 gallon) with two or three male
fish to swim around and look nice. Seems simple right? Wrong.

First problem was that I only let my tank set about 3 days before I
bought a Pleco and plopped him in. (I made sure he had algae disks
to eat) Shortly after him, I place two beautiful, playful male Fancy
Guppies who are bonded with each other very well. No problem there.

Then I bought what was described to me as a "big-bellied black molly
male". He seemed nice enough and had gotten along with other mollies
and fancy guppies in his previous tank, so I bought him along with a
Tequila Sunrise guppy to put into this tank. 5 fish in a 5 gallon
tank.

Needless to say, the pleco died (walmart brand was my stupidity and
he had ick or something). Luckily none of the other fish caught the
ick or whatever it was, as I treated them very quickly with some
Coppersafe.

Well, after this my Tequila Sunrise died and I had it replaced with
another, thinking it was simply a swim bladder problem. But then I
noticed this one doing the same... and then it died too. Swim
bladder again? I had a water test done.


Ammonia off the charts, and the Nitrites or something to that effect
are nearing this as well. After a 50% water change and some Stress
Zyme, everything seems to be okay. Ammonia neutralized and while
verything is still high it seems like it will be okay. Now fro my
current problems:

The two fancies are beginning to show the tell-tale signs of the
same problem the Tequila had... they still swim and play, but their
gills are beginning to seemingly waste away, and their colors are
fading slightly. I fear a bacterial infection and am going to get
Mel-fix
tomorrow at the suggestion of the pet store guy. (petsmart)

However now I am faced with another problem, which is dire!
My "male" molly turned out to be a very pregnant female, and now I
am faced with 12 babies (1 died or it would have been 13) and
possibly more within a month, from what I have read about mollies.

The 5 gallon tank is way too small for a frybasket (the lid doesn;t
come off and all i have is a small hole), and I don't know
if I should just put them in there with the normal fish or not (and
let nature take it's course)... however they probably wouldn't make
it, as the filter had already sucked them in (thank god I noticed
and unplugged it in time!).

I have a medium fishbowl which they are in for now, and have placed
some small tiny plants for them to hide in in it. There is no
filtration, air, or heat, however, and I fear they will die this
way. I have an air pump and could pump air into it, and it is under
an incandescent light, so they would be warm.

So what do you all think? My knowledge is very little, and what I do
know I have learned from fish sites. Please help me, I don't want to
live with the knowledge that I killed these poor babies due to
ignorance. Maybe someone could take them and take care of them since
I can't? I know of no-one in this area however...
Group: AquaticLife Message: 29 From: Aaron Martin Date: 9/25/2003
Subject: Re: New to Molly Care - Help!

Hi, Carey

Welcome to the group. I am still new to the hobby of fishkeeping. After almost a year now I have learned a few things the hard way. What you are going thru is learning experience that you probably share with many others. I will go thru your email a piece at a time and comment the best I can from my experience.

"I just wanted a simple small tank (5 gallon) with two or three male fish to swim around and look nice. Seems simple right? Wrong."

It has been said that Large tanks are for beginners and small tanks are for experts. That being said, it has been my experience that their is nothing simple about a small tank. The less water volume you have will allow for greater and more rapid changes in water qaulity, typically for the worse, therfore small tanks are very high maintenance. For example, if you had a 1 gal , a 10g & a 100 gallon, all with one equally sized fish and fed the same, the 100g would be very stable, the 10g would 'get dirty' 10 times as fast, and the 1g would change dramaticaly every time the fish was fed and after the food was completly processed.

I personally have a 55g, a 40g, a 12g & a 10 gallon. If my apartment was big enough and I could afford it , I would have bought a much larger aquarium to start with.

I'm thinking that if you had kept to your original plan of only 2 or 3 fish, you would not have had so many difficulties. Keeping only males was a great idea, I started the same way. 

"First problem was that I only let my tank set about 3 days before I bought a Pleco and plopped him in. (I made sure he had algae disks to eat) Shortly after him, I place two beautiful, playful male Fancy Guppies who are bonded with each other very well. No problem there."

Yes, as you may now know, it usally takes about 30 days for a tank to completley cycle.

 Why did you start w/ a Pleco? Was it the LFS suggestion or did you already have a lot of algae? Plecos can be very sensetive to water quality. Also they get very large, up to 18 inches if the tank is big enough. If you really need an algae eater in such a small environment, may I suggest an Otocinculus. It is a very small fish that typically stays lees than 2 inches long. It would be best to figure out why you have so much algae and correct the problem rather than introducing more fish into a crowded tank.

How many weeks/days did you wait before adding the guppies? What were the water parameters (ammonia/nitrIte) before you added them? I suggest waiting at least a week between adding each fish, assuming water conditions are ideal.

"Then I bought what was described to me as a "big-bellied black molly male". He seemed nice enough and had gotten along with other mollies and fancy guppies in his previous tank, so I bought him along with a
Tequila Sunrise guppy to put into this tank. 5 fish in a 5 gallon tank."

Again, how many weeks/days did you wait before adding these? What were the water parameters (ammonia/nitrIte) before you added them?

What store did you buy these from? They obviously know very little or nothing about fish. Did they ask you any exploritory questions to make sure you were ready for more fish? Did they offer to test your water? Speak to the manager next time you are there if you ever go back. These people are doing a great deal of damage to our hobby.

Ok, so now you know what a female molly looks like, and your not likely to let that happen again. Lesson learned, I've done the same thing, don't feel bad. I had gotten so much bad advice from the PetCo in Dublin CA, that I figured I could do a better job. So I got a part time job there a few night a week. Now I understand, there is absolutely no training whatsoever at the local chain stores. Now I only shop at the small Mom & Pop family owned stores that only sell fish.

I assume you are basing your 5 fish in a 5 gallon tank as ok from the old 1 inch of fish per gallon rule of thumb yes? This is only a general guideline and may not be right for all fish, as I said earlier I'm thinking that if you had kept to your original plan of only 2 or 3 fish, you would not have had so many difficulties.

"Needless to say, the pleco died (walmart brand was my stupidity and he had ick or something). Luckily none of the other fish caught the ick or whatever it was, as I treated them very quickly with some Coppersafe.

Ok, so your down to just 4 fish yes? How many days from the date of purchase was it when the Pleco died? It is good to keep a detailed record of this for future reference. Why coppersafe? How much (%) water change did you do? Did you take the dead Pleco back to the store w/ a seperate water sample and get a refund and diagnoses? If not that is what I suggest. Its very important to know for sure what disease the fish had, are there other plecos at the store that were sick also? This happened to me one time, I had the smallest amount of algae starting to show, so I bought a Pleco from the LFS without asking any questions or getting any advice. I put it right into my well established 55g community tank and 3 days later the Pleco was dead. I took the Pleco back back to the LFS and he was going to replace it w/ another, but the rest of them were sick, dying or dead. He said he had just gotten them in the same day I bought mine. By the end of the week my entire tank was inf ested w/ ick and I ended up losing most of the fish. The lessons I learned here were: 1) never buy fish the same day they arrive at the store, always wait at least 5 days to purchase; 2) Always quarantine the new fish in a seperate tank for no less than 1 month before introduceing them into the community tank; 3) always ask questions and seek advice from multiple reputible sources prior to make changes that may negatively impact your aquarium; 4) as soon as a fish shows signs of disease emove into a seperate tank and seek proper diagnoses and treat appropriatley.

"Well, after this my Tequila Sunrise died and I had it replaced with another, thinking it was simply a swim bladder problem. But then I noticed this one doing the same... and then it died too. Swim bladder again? I had a water test done.

How many days after the Pleco died? What were the symptoms and signs? What were the results of the water test? Water quality might not have any use diagnosing swim bladder.

Ok, so now you have only 3 fish out of 6  yes?

Ammonia off the charts, and the Nitrites or something to that effect are nearing this as well. After a 50% water change and some Stress Zyme, everything seems to be okay. Ammonia neutralized and while everything is still high it seems like it will be okay.

Does that mean that the Ammonia level is very high and is toxic? My Ammonia level is 'off the charts' as well, but that because there is no detectable amount present. If your NitrItes are dangerously high it sounds like the little 5 gallon tank is still stuggling to CYCLE. That could easily explain all the fish dying. It would be greatly beneficial for you to include a specific timeline of these events so we can get a better idea of what is happening. How often are you changing what % of your water? Generally I would suggest daily 20% water changes should be done under these circumstances.

Now for my current problems:
The two fancies are beginning to show the tell-tale signs of the same problem the Tequila had... they still swim and play, but their gills are beginning to seemingly waste away, and their colors are fading slightly. I fear a bacterial infection and am going to get Mel-fix tomorrow at the suggestion of the pet store guy. (petsmart)

Again, I do not know how much time has elapsed here nor do I know your current water parameters. Ok, besides the gills and coloring, what other signs & symptoms are there? Did you bring either of the 2 dead Tequilas to the store? if so what was their diagnoses? If you think you can trust them, I would suggest taking the sick fish back to the store for a diagnoses and/or refund/replacent if possible. If they won't give your money back or replace the fish, I would never buy any more from them as they appear to be intentionally selling diseased fish so that you have to invest more money on treatments that may not work and eventully end up buying more fish every month. This may seem unlikely, but having worked for a major corporate chain I know that this the basis of their philosophy. After all, if they only sold healthy fish, the would eventually put themselves out of business. This is why it is so extremley important to have a quarantine tank.

I would like to have you do more research before spending more money. If you do not already have a book, visit the library and look up different fish diseases. This will make you more educated than the people at the store. There are also many websites w/ detailed descriptions and pictures of fish w/ various common diseases.

"However now I am faced with another problem, which is dire! My "male" molly turned out to be a very pregnant female, and now I am faced with 12 babies (1 died or it would have been 13) and possibly more within a month, from what I have read about mollies. "

Yes, and unfortunately, due to the stress she more than likely gave birth prematurely and may soon die herself if she continues to be stressed out by the conditions, not that giving birth isn't stressful enough for her on its own . And yes, you can mark your calender now, she will be having babies about the same day every month for up to 8 months in a row.  I too bought a pregnant molly (this is how I got hooked on breeding), I had no experience w/ this previously as I had only bought males up until this point. The day after I brought her home there were a dozen or so fry swimming about, most inside the filter. The mother died the next day, likely from the stress of bein g moved which probably caused her to give birth stressing her out that much more. I have since learned it is common practice to keep expectant mothers in a seperate well planted Maternity tank, and to lightly anesitize them the day they are giving birth to reduce the stress.

The 5 gallon tank is way too small for a frybasket (the lid doesn't come off and all i have is a small hole), and I don't know if I should just put them in there with the normal fish or not (and let nature take it's course)... however they probably wouldn't make it, as the filter had already sucked them in (thank god I noticed and unplugged it in time!).

Yes, you are correct, 5 gallons is likely too small for the fry even by themselves, not mention w/ the other 3? fish. It would be a great experience to be able to raise the fry to a size large enough to be sold or traded, usally about 2-3 months old. This would require a bigger set up, at least a 10 gallon.

What kind of container is this that the lid can not be removed? How do you clean inside of it?

"I have a medium fishbowl which they are in for now, and have placed some small tiny plants for them to hide in in it. There is no filtration, air, or heat, however, and I fear they will die this way. I have an air pump and could pump air into it, and it is under an incandescent light, so they would be warm."

How many gallons is the fishbowl? Are the plants plastic or live? If they are live it will act as natural filtration a bit. The fry are going to be much more senseitive to changes in their envioronment than the adults. It would be of greatest priority to keep the water temp constant and stable. The light must be off for at least 10 hours at night so the fish can sleep, if the light is the only heat source now what will happen when the light is off? Air pumps do not provide oxygen, they only disturb the surface tension and allow for greater gas exchange.

So what do you all think? My knowledge is very little, and what I do know I have learned from fish sites. Please help me, I don't want to live with the knowledge that I killed these poor babies due to ignorance. Maybe someone could take them and take care of them since I can't? I know of no-one in this area however...

I live near San Francisco CA, if you are nearby I would be glad to help out as a foster parent for the fry.

Aaron R. Martin, cmt
Livermore CA (San Francisco Bay Area)
(925)337-2340 cellular


----- Original Message -----
From: "Carey"
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 06:06:22 -0000
To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] New to Molly Care - Help!

Ack! I really need some help... but I will need to start from the
beginning so you will know what is going on here:

I just wanted a simple small tank (5 gallon) with two or three male
fish to swim around and look nice. Seems simple right? Wrong.

First problem was that I only let my tank set about 3 days before I
bought a Pleco and plopped him in. (I made sure he had algae disks
to eat) Shortly after him, I place two beautiful, playful male Fancy
Guppies who are bonded with each other very well. No problem there.

Then I bought what was described to me as a "big-bellied black molly
male". He seemed nice enough and had gotten along with other mollies
and fancy guppies in his previo us tank, so I bought him along with a
Tequila Sunrise guppy to put into this tank. 5 fish in a 5 gallon
tank.

Needless to say, the pleco died (walmart brand was my stupidity and
he had ick or something). Luckily none of the other fish caught the
ick or whatever it was, as I treated them very quickly with some
Coppersafe.

Well, after this my Tequila Sunrise died and I had it replaced with
another, thinking it was simply a swim bladder problem. But then I
noticed this one doing the same... and then it died too. Swim
bladder again? I had a water test done.


Ammonia off the charts, and the Nitrites or something to that effect
are nearing this as well. After a 50% water change and some Stress
Zyme, everything seems to be okay. Ammonia neutralized and while
verything is still high it seems like it will be okay. Now fro my
current problems:

The two fancies are beginning to show the tell-tale signs of the
same problem the Tequila had... they still swim and play, but their
gills are beginning to seemingly waste away, and their colors are
fading slightly. I fear a bacterial infection and am going to get
Mel-fix
tomorrow at the suggestion of the pet store guy. (petsmart)

However now I am faced with another problem, which is dire!
My "male" molly turned out to be a very pregnant female, and now I
am faced with 12 babies (1 died or it would have been 13) and
possibly more within a month, from what I have read about mollies.

The 5 gallon tank is way too small for a frybasket (the lid doesn;t
come off and all i have is a small hole), and I don't know
if I should just put them in there with the normal fish or not (and
let nature take it's course)... however they probably wouldn't make
it, as the filter had already sucked them in (thank god I noticed
and unplugged it in time!).

I have a medium fishbowl which th ey are in for now, and have placed
some small tiny plants for them to hide in in it. There is no
filtration, air, or heat, however, and I fear they will die this
way. I have an air pump and could pump air into it, and it is under
an incandescent light, so they would be warm.

So what do you all think? My knowledge is very little, and what I do
know I have learned from fish sites. Please help me, I don't want to
live with the knowledge that I killed these poor babies due to
ignorance. Maybe someone could take them and take care of them since
I can't? I know of no-one in this area however...



 

Aaron R. Martin, cmt
Livermore CA (San Francisco Bay Area)
(925)337-2340 cellular
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Group: AquaticLife Message: 30 From: Carey Walker Date: 9/25/2003
Subject: Re: New to Molly Care - Help!
Thanks for all your help so far... okay, I am not
going to bother with previous details, as some new
things have happened messing everything up anyways.

Here is the scoop:

I now have a 10 gallon aquarium, with heat (set to 75
- is this ok?), florescent lighting, lid, 5-15 filter,
well gravelled, plastic plants, and an air bubble
curtain. Only 4 of the babies survived and they are in
a fry basket doing rather well I think.

I have Liquid Fry food and have fed them twice today,
but am unsure how many times a day to feed them. I
also powder regular food and give a tiny bit of that
to them as well, which they seem to prefer more.

As expected, the mother molly died :(```

(wahhh! I feel like a fish-murderer!)

I now only have 2 fancy guppies in the 10 gallon
aquarium, with the 4 balloon molly babies in the fry
basket.

I would like to know if there is anything else I can
do besides what I have already done.

I have set the tank up today, and put stress-zyme and
biosafe in there, as per each ones' bottle recommended
dosages. I need to know how to prevent ammonia
poisoning from killing my babies and the two guppies
til the tank can cycle.

I probably won't get any more fish. I may just keep
the male mollies when they are older, sell the
females, and keep the two guppies. I really don't care
for breeding them, as I am a college student - this
has been the most hectic two days I have had in a long
time! lol

Well, I have rambled on and on... if you need to know
anything, please let me know and I will answer.

Thanks!

PS: What is ya'lls opinion of me putting my male betta
in the 10 gallon once it has cycled? Will he get along
with the rest or should I just keep him in the medium
sized fishbowl he is in now? Thanks again!

PS again: I live in Alabama :)

=====
Carey
-------
Visit my website at:
http://webpages.uah.edu/~walkerc1/

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Group: AquaticLife Message: 31 From: Aaron Martin Date: 10/9/2003
Subject: yahoo groups
Hi Carey, I am the "owner" (really should be 'founder' since I started it but can't 'own' yahoo) of the http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium

there are several more that I had joined originally, however they were more general aquarists discussion groups & I wanted something more specific to what I was doing at the time.

here are 2 of them;
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tropicalfishclub
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UniQuaria

these have a very large member base w/ lots of daily discussion
it would be good to repost your emails to them to get a variety of responses, if you do not have the originals still I will post them for you w/ your permission






----- Original Message -----
From: Carey Walker <carey_w_98@...>
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 22:27:40 -0700 (PDT)
To: Aaron Martin <massagetherapist@...>
Subject: Re: New to Molly Care - Help!

> This may sound crazy, but I have been a member of
> quite a few groups, and can't remember which group you
> were from. Could you remind me? I must be going crazy!
>
> Lol, but to answer your questions, all I have now is
> the 10 gal. tank. I got rid of the 5 gal. (exchanged
> it). I guess I'll have to get rid of one of the
> guppies, although the pet store (petsmart) associate
> said that they had to live in twos, which is why I
> bought two. They were selling them in twos, and said
> it was required. They are okay one minute, but nipping
> at each other and ramming into each other the next. I
> dunno if its normal or not.
>
> As to what happened to the original plan of sticking
> to mollies, I don't wanna run the risk of ending up
> with another pregnant female again and have her die on
> me... especially when I had been told it was a male.
> Plus I think I would like to get some variety in my
> tank if I could.
>
> I am gonna wait awhile before adding more fish, but in
> a month or so, I may try adding my betta, and see if
> he does ok. I'll get some live plants before doing
> that tho, and get rid of the bubble curtain, and tone
> down the filter some so there won't be so much
> current.
>
> I am doing a weekly, two gallon water change (which
> amounts to 3 gals (30%) because by this time one
> gallon approx. has dehydrated out. I have been taking
> water samples to my nearby petstore, but this friday
> is payday, so I will probably get my own test kit
> then. The I can tell you what the lvls are. Last time
> I tested (a week/ week and a half ago) it was
> mid-cycled, so hopefully it will finish soon. I am
> planning on keeping this an all-male tank.
>
> I hope I don't seem to crazy... I appreciate your
> helping me with my little 10 gal tank! :)
>
> Right now, I am a member of freshwateraquariums at
> yahoo. I had been a member of many more, but left some
> b/c I had too many to keep track of. :)
>
> Talk to ya soon!
>
>
> =====
> Carey
> -------
> Visit my website at:
> http://webpages.uah.edu/~walkerc1/
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
> http://shopping.yahoo.com



Aaron R. Martin, cmt
(925)337-2340 cellular

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Group: AquaticLife Message: 32 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 10/11/2003
Subject: Salted Fish
Salt (non iodized)

by Ben Plonski - Laguna Koi Ponds

Ordinary sodium chloride is probably the oldest fish medicine known
to man. Salt can be very helpful for treating parasites; however, it
is not a cure all. Most fish have an internal salt concenration of
1.0%. Tap water typically has close to 0.1% salt concentration. An
osmotic gradient exists between the fish and the water that surrounds
it. Through the process of diffusion the fish will lose salt and gain
fresh water. In order to maintain proper cellular functions,
freshwater fish must constanly replace these lost salts and expel
excess fresh water. This is called osmoregulation and requires an
engery expenditure. When salt is added to the pond the koi actually
spend less energy osmoregulating. This saved energy may be saved for
fighting disease. The osmotic balance of some parasites is upset by
salt concentrations as low as .3% to .5%. Basically the parasite's
cell dehydrates. This gives the koi a fighting chance.
Stronger salt baths of 2.5% for 10 minutes, can quickly rid a fish of
many parasites and bacteria or fungus. However, when the fish goes
back into the pond, it may still be in a weakened condition and might
fall prey to a new parasite. This is why it is necessary to medicate
the whole pond properly. Parasiticides or antibiotics may need to be
added concurrently with salt treatments. Concentrations of salt
stronger than 0.3% combined with formalin may be too harsh.

Salt has been used to control string algae at a concentration of .25%
and higher. Killing large quantities of algae with salt may pollute
the pond. Remove most of the algae by hand fisrt to reduce pollution.

Salt concentrations of 0.3% are effective at detoxifying nitrite. The
salt interferes with the nitrite ion exchange at the fish's gills.
Use until nitrites have cycled properly.

A 0.3% concentration is a good all around tonic for strengthening koi
and improving disease treatments. This concentration will stunt your
water lilies and stringy algae. You may choose to treat your fish in
a separate container.

A 1.0% salt concentration is the same salinity as fish blood. This is
called an isotonic solution. Salt does not transfer into or out of
the fish's body. Under normal pond salinities (0.1%) ulcer disease
can cause a loss of internal salts through the open sore. Addition of
1.0% salt to the koi in a separate hospital tank will limit this loss
of internal salts. Limit this concentration to 2 to 4 weeks.

Always adjust salt levels gradually over 3 days to allow the koi time
to adjust. Do not use salt continuously as parasites can become
immune. The beneficial effects will be diminished. Use salt in the
spring as a preventative for disease or when the koi are definitely
sick. Monthly water changes will dilute salt to normal over time.

Note that the salt that should be used is non ionized, often refered
to as Ice Cream Salt or Rock Salt.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 33 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 10/11/2003
Subject: Use and Application of Salt in Aquaculture
Agricultural publication MX0393 â€" Reviewed October 1, 1993
Use and Application of Salt in Aquaculture
L. Swann
Illinois-Indiana Sea Grant Program, Purdue University
S. Fitzgerald, D.V.M.
Animal Disease Diagnostic Laboratory, Purdue University


----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------

Background
Salt is one of the most commonly used drugs in aquaculture. In fact,
it is sometimes referred to as the aspirin of aquaculture.
Salt, or sodium chloride (NaCl) in its chemical form, is a drug of
low regulatory priority for the United States Food and Drug
Administration and requires no withdrawal time before marketing.

Many forms of salt are used, including table, meat-curing, pickling
and rock salt. Of these, the most commonly used and least expensive
form is the meat-curing variety. When used properly, salt can treat
many external parasites including Costia, Epistylis, Trichodina,
Chilodonella, and the flukes Dactylogyrus and Gyrodactylus. Salt is
used to relieve stress during handling and transport.

A few general guidelines are suggested before any salt treatment is
attempted:


Use sensitive and accurate scales to calculate doses for treatment of
small volumes of water contained in hauling or holding
tanks. "Guesstimating" may only end in disaster.

Know the volume of your ponds, airways, tanks, etc., beforehand. It
is advisable to have those values in a convenient location for
immediate use.

Perform a test treatment on a few fish before attempting a large-
scale treatment. Salt, like other chemicals, reacts differently among
different species and water qualities.

Prepare to remove fish or flush out salt baths with fresh water when
fish show initial signs of stress.

Treatment procedures involve calculating the volume of water to be
treated, calculating salt dosage and choosing the treatment method.
In the case of a specific disease, the corresponding rate of salt for
applications needs to be calculated.

Treatment methods
The method of salt application depends on the disease organism, fish
species, weight and type of aquaculture unit. Treatment methods
include short-term dips, prolonged baths and indefinite treatments.
Dip treatments involve exposing the fish to very strong solutions for
short periods of time, usually 30 seconds to one minute.

Prolonged baths are useful for treating fish in small tanks that can
be flushed quickly. Strong solutions of salt are added to the water.
Fish are held in this salt solution with aeration from 30 to 60
minutes, or until they show signs of stress.

Indefinite treatments are used when transporting, handling fish, or
when dealing with large volumes of water, such as ponds. Low
concentrations of salt can be used indefinitely in ponds.


Calculation of volumes
Calculating tank and pond volume is an important step to effective
salt application in aquaculture. Measurements used to determine
volume are usually in feet and/or inches. The most common shapes of
culture tanks, ponds or raceways are square, rectangular or round.
Square or rectangular pond and tank volumes are calculated similarly
except that an average depth is used for ponds. The method used to
calculate volume of each is given below.


Volume of a square or rectangular raceway, tank or pond.
Volume (Vol.) = length x width x depth
Example 1: A rectangular tank is 12 feet long, 3 feet wide and 3 feet
deep. What is its volume?


Vol. = 12 ft x 3 ft x 3 ft

Vol. = 108 cubic ft (ft3)

Volume of a round tank
Vol.= 3.14 x (radius x radius) x depth
Example 2: A round tank is 12 feet in diameter and 4.5 feet deep.
What is its volume? (Radius = 0.5 x diameter)


Vol. = 3.14 x (6 ft x 6 ft) x 4.5 ft

Vol. = 3.14 x 36 ft2 x 4.5 ft

Vol. = 508.7 ft3

Calculation of dosages
Once the volume is calculated in cubic feet, the gallons are
determined using these conversions:
1 ft3 = 7.48 gallons (gal.)
1 acre-foot (1 surface acre x 1 ft deep) = 325,850 gal.
1 liter (l) = 0.26 gal.
Other useful conversions:
1 pound (lb.) = 454 grams (g)
1,000 g = 1 kilogram (kg)



One of the most commonly used units of measure in aquaculture is the
part per million, commonly referred to as ppm. In percentage
calculations, 1 percent equals 10,000 ppm. The amount of salt added
to various volumes that results in 1 ppm concentrations is listed
below.

1 ppm equals:
2.7 lbs./acre-foot
0.0283 g/ft3
0.00378 g/gal.
1.0 milligram (mg)/L


Example 3: How much salt is needed to make a 2 percent solution using
a prolonged treatment for Dactylogyrus in the round tank used in
Example 2?


2.0 percent = 20,000 ppm

tank volume (gal.) = 508.7 ft3 x 7.48 gal. ft3 = 3,805.1 gal.

salt needed (g) = 0.00378 g/gal. x 3,805.1 gal. x 20,000 = 287,663 g
or 633.6 lbs. (287,663 g divided by 454 g/lb. = 633.6 lbs.)
Example 4: How much salt is needed to make a 0.5 percent solution
using an indefinite treatment in a 100-gal. transport tank?


0.5 percent = 5,000 ppm

Salt needed = 0.00378 g/gal. x 100 gal. x 5,000 ppm

Salt needed (g) = 1,890 g or 4.2 lbs. (1890 g divided by 454 g/lb. =
4.2 lbs.)

Specific treatment rates
Specific treatments using salt are given in Table 1.
Table 1. Specific treatment rates and methods of using salt for
treating various diseases or as a remedial treatment of stress.
Disease Concentration and duration of treatment for control of
disease
External parasites of brood fish 30,000 ppm (3 percent) as a quick
dip (15 seconds) before stocking
External parasites Costia, Epistylis, Trichodina, and Chilodonella
and the flukes Dactylogyrus and Gyrodactylus 10,000-30,000 ppm (1-3
percent) prolonged treatment (30 minutes or until fish show signs of
stress) or 1,000-2,000 ppm in hauling tanks as an indefinite
treatment
Stress during transport and while handling Indefinite treatment using
1,000-10,000 ppm (0.1-1.0 percent)




----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
To order, request MX393, Use and Application of Salt in Aquaculture
(25 cents).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
Copyright 1999 University of Missouri. Published by University
Extension, University of Missouri-Columbia. Please use our feedback
form for questions or comments about this or any other publication
contained on the Explore site.
Issued in furtherance of Cooperative Extension Work Acts of May 8 and
June 30, 1914, in cooperation with the United States Department of
Agriculture. Ronald J. Turner, Director, Cooperative Extension
Service, University of Missouri and Lincoln University, Columbia,
Missouri 65211. • University Extension does not discriminate on
the
basis of race, color, national origin, sex, religion, age, disability
or status as a Vietnam-era veteran in employment or programs. If you
have special needs as addressed by the Americans with Disabilities
Act and need this publication in an alternative format, write ADA
Officer, Extension and Agricultural Information, 1-98 Agriculture
Building, Columbia, MO 65211, or call (573) 882-7216. Reasonable
efforts will be made to accommodate your special needs.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 34 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 10/11/2003
Subject: Salinity levels of 'fresh'water tanks
Hi, I'm trying to figure out how to check the salt concentration
level of my aquariums. I realize it is not technical "freshwater"
once I add salt, rather it's 'brackish', but the only device I've
seen to measure the salinity is intended for salt water. I've been
occasionally adding approx. 1 Tablespoon per 5 gallons. I use Reverse
Osmosis water and somewhere read that salt is needed for electrolytes
as well as to rid of parasites. I breed Mollies, Platies, Swordtails
& Guppies, as well as keep gobies, I've read that these prefer
slightly brackish water.

my main question is - How can I tell if I already have enough and/or
too much salt disolved in the water?

what kinds of salt do other people use? I've been buying the Doc
Wellfish's brand at the pet stores.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 35 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 10/11/2003
Subject: Cherry Barb
In a message dated 8/28/2003 8:04:25 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
sverre_espeland@... writes:



Cherry Barb
Puntius titteya (Deraniyagala, 1929)

Peaceful fish, sociabillity: Groups, minimum 10 gallons,
Cherry Barbs are popular little community fish from Sri Lanka in
Asia. They
can be kept in groups or pairs with other peaceful fish.
Cherry Barbs grow to two inches in length
These little fish are omnivorous and should be fed a variety of
standard
aqurium fish foods.
Family: Cyprinidae
Type: Cyprinids
Distribution: Asia
Max Size:2"
pH: Neutral
Temperature: 72-79° F.
Diet: Omnivorous
Breeding:Intermediate

By Dag Christensen, BAK

This article is about a small species-only aquarium. 53 litres.
The cherry barb is a relativley small barb coming from Sri Lanka. The
fish
lives and breeds in relatively small streams in the forest.The
streams are
shady as they have overhanging trees above, and around the rivers.
The water
chemistry: PH 6, dGH ca. 12, the water is slow running and slighthly
acid.In
the 53 litre aquarium they live and breed year round at Ph 6, Dh ca.
3 and
temperature 28 degrees

The rivers these fish come from often lies just beneath high
mountains, and
during the rainy season there will be a wast amount of water coming
down
these rivers and streams.The temperature og this water is cooler then
the
temperature of the river. This sends signals to the fish to go into
breeding-season. (In nature, there will be lots of food, as flea-
larvae
hatches due to high water levels) Do I want my barbs to breed, I
simply pour
cold water in to the tank. (And also feeding them live food might be
a good
idea!) The males turn beautiful dark red, and start to interact with
the
females.

The Sherry Barb lays eggs. Most egg-layers mount their eggs on i.e. a
leaf
or bogwood. This barb does not. It spreads them out in the entire
aquarium.
Be aware, even if this is a small fish, they tend to eat their own
eggs
after spawning. This aquarium has a back wall with jawa-fern, and at
the
bottom there is a layer of leaves and twigs. This gives the eggs a
chance to
survive at the start. When the eggs have hached and the fry are
free-swimming, the adults are not likey to eat them.

I got the idea to cover the aquarium floor with dried-out leaves and
twigs
from pictures from the biotope where these fish lives. Not only does
it look
good, there are several other good things with this set-up. Suitable
woods
might be roots of beech, pine, oak and willow, I recon leaves and
wood from
these are not toxic. Correct me if I´m wrong. I use Silver birch
leaves &
twigs (Betula pubescens) myself. (We have lots of them where I come
from.
(Norway) Not sure of the avaliability elsewhere in the world.)

Atumn is a the season of the year to go pick up dried out, fallen
leaves.
Take only the leaves who have a good, fresh coloration, light brown.
Do not
use rotten black, moist leaves or leaves who have been on the ground
too
long. (usually snails like to hide there) The branches to use are
those who
has dried out, still on the tree. Put all your gatherings, and put
them
somewhere warm, to drie out.

The first time you put these leaves in the aquarium, do it
sparsingly, to
avoid any surprises. After a couple of days these leaves and twigs
will sink
to the bottom, and cover it naturally.
If you want the leaves to sink immediately, you will have to soak
them in a
i. e. a bucket some days (until they sink) before applying them to
the
aquarium.

Using twigs/leaves in the aquarium has been known for a long time.
Modern
equiptment and tekniques have more or less taken over. If you have
problems
with algae, you should know that those aquariums I´ve seen this
way,
have
good plant growth and no algae. The reason might be that the twigs
and
leaves releases acid (what kind of acid?) when decaying, and this has
a
positive effect leaving little room for algae to thrive.

To mimic the environment with shady rivers use floating plants like
LEMNA MINOR og RICCIA FLUITANS. These plants grow very fast and you
might
have to remove some every week. They take a lot of nutrition from the
water
and are easy to grow.

As the main plant I use Barclaya Longifolia (Wallich 1827). This
plant is a
water lily and have the same coloration as the fish.If the plant
grows out
of the aquarium, you might be lucky and see a deep red flower.

The tank has no glass to cover its top, and there are 1litre of water
dissolving in to the air every day. This water is replaced with water
straight from the tap.
The lights are two 40Ws light bulbs, and one 20W spotlight. The spot
is
placed so the light goes down in an angle in the water. This set-up
gives
small shadowy movements at the tank-floor, and is quite decorative.
The fish
thrive and spawn regularly in this set-up year round.
Group: AquaticLife Message: 36 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 10/11/2003
Subject: 'trained' fish
hi all, I've recently seen 2 examples of trained fish. the first was
a Koi pond that has a bell the size of a grapefruit with a string
hanging down from it into the water. somehow this lady 'taught' the
Koi pull on the string to ring the bell - supposedly when they are
hungry.
the second example was a tank with goldfish pulling on a string
attached to a small bell.

the real question is who's trained who, I'm likely to believe its the
fish that have taught their keepers to feed them on command. sort of
a twist on the ol Pavlonian response

has anybody else seen and/or tried this?
would this work w/ any fish?

skeptical but curious
Group: AquaticLife Message: 37 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 10/11/2003
Subject: Substrate and Fertilization Introduction
In a message dated 8/22/2003 7:29:39 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
hjalti.andrason@... writes:


Substrate and Fertilization Introduction

By Robert Paul H


Plants need a balance of macro nutrients, (those they use the most
of), and minor or trace nutrients, (which they use to a lesser
degree).

Macronutrients
Nutrients used by plants in relatively large amounts. They are
nitrogen (N), phosphorus (P), sulfur (S), calcium (Ca), magnesium
(Mg) and potassium (K).
Micronutrients
Nutrients used by plants in small amounts. They are iron (Fe),
manganese (Mn), copper (Cu), zinc (Zn), molybdenum (Mo), cobalt (Co),
and boron (B).





The Substrate is the growing medium that the plants are rooted in. It
is important to add a source of these nutrients to the substrate,
particularly in a new aquarium that has no mulm or fish waste settled
in it yet.

It is also advisable to use a medium such as porous gravel that will
provide a good CEC and not compact together. CEC, (cation exchange
capacity) is the ability of the medium to absorb cation ions,
(minerals from fertilizers) and hold them making them accessible to
the plants when the plants need them. Sand and coated gravel do not
provide a good CEC. Good CEC mediums include porous gravel, clay
litter, and clay soils.

Macro nutrients include nitrogen, oxygen, CO2, potassium, phosphorus,
calcium. Minor elements include iron, Boron, zinc, manganese, and
other trace minerals. Iron is an important element for many plants
and is often added to the substrate with other minerals.

Laterite is a sediment soil that is formed in nature by decaying
rocks which are high in iron and aluminum. There are a few aquarium
products made of laterite, such as Duplarit, and First Layer. Other
sources of iron are soils, clay litter, red pottery clay, and
sphagnum peat.

Various substrate methods

Layered substrate with "sub" soil (soil low in organics), sphagnum
peat, gravel, and trace element mix, as outlined by Steve Pushak
Pottery clay balls enhanced with fritted trace elements, as outlined
by Steve Pushak, or commercial additives made for the aquarium
Clay gravel
Granular laterite, sphagnum peat, and gravel, my mix of choice.
Fail-safe beginner substrates:

Commercial products, laterite, clay gravel, clay based additives made
for the aquarium
NPK What are those three numbers?

Nitrogen supplied by the fish, phosphates by the water supply and
uneaten food, and potassium to a lesser degree in the water supply.
NPK fertilizers should only be added if you have low or unreadable
levels already. RO, distilled, and some bottled spring water will be
low in NPK and mineral elements. Most tap water will have sufficient
levels of P. Even some aquarium products contain NPK. An NPK
fertilizer high in potassium, but low or 0 in nitrate and phosphate
is has the least affect on algae. Check the numbers. Single digits
are low, double digits are high. In a heavily planted tank with fast
growing plants, and a small number of fish, it is possible to have
consistent 0 readings of nitrate and phosphate creating a nitrogen
and phosphate deficiency for the plants.

Target nutrient ranges



Nitrate (N03) 5 to 10ppm Phosphate (PO4) 0.2ppm to 0.5ppm
Iron (Fe) 0.2 to 0.7ppm Potassium (K) 20-30ppm


Types of fertilizers



tablets spikes
balls liquid




Sources of trace elements

Sphagnum Peat: Iron (Fe) High CEC
Soils: Iron (Fe) other trace elements High CEC
Pottery clay: Iron, (Fe) High CEC
Clay litter: Iron, (Fe) High CEC
Vermiculite: trace amounts Iron, Potassium, Magnesium Very High CEC
Drawbacks of Soil substrates

When plants are removed, replanted, the soil mixture can come up with
the plants and pollute the water. You are better off using a clay
gravel if you anticipate moving and transplanting plants often.

The Following information is taken from "Something to Grow on",
Cornell University. It is not written specifically for aquariums, but
the information is very useful. I particularly like the information
on CEC.

Ions Cation exchange capacity
(CEC) Quantifies the ability of media to provide a nutrient reserve
for plant uptake. It is the sum of exchangeable cations, or
positively charged ions, media can adsorb per unit weight or volume.
It is usually measured in milligram equivalents per 100 g or 100 cm3
(meq/100 g or meq/100 cm3, respectively). A high CEC value
characterizes media with a high nutrient-holding capacity that can
retain nutrients for plant uptake between applications of fertilizer.
Media characterized by a high CEC retains nutrients from leaching
during irrigation. In addition, a high CEC provides a buffer from
abrupt fluctuations in media salinity and pH. Important cations in
the cation exchange complex in order of adsorption strength include
calcium (Ca2+) > magnesium (Mg2+) > potassium (K+) > ammonium (NH4+),
and sodium (Na+). Micronutrients which also are adsorbed to media
particles include iron (Fe2+ and Fe3+), manganese (Mn2+), zinc
(Zn2+), and copper (Cu2+). The cations bind loosely to negatively
charged sites on media particles until they are released into the
liquid phase of the media. Once they are released into the media
solution, cations are absorbed by plant roots or exchanged for other
cations held on the media particles. Anion exchange capacity Some
media retains small quantities of anions, negatively charged ions, in
addition to cations. However, anion exchange capacities are usually
negligible, allowing anions such as nitrate (NO3-), chloride (Cl-),
sulphate (SO4-), and phosphate (H2PO4-) to leach from the media.

Cation Exchange Capacities for various growing media amendments and
selected media.


Material Cation Exchange Capacity meq/100g
Perlite 1.5 - 3.5
Silt 3.0 - 7.0
Clays 22.0 - 63.0
Pine Bark 53.0
Vermiculite 82.0 - 150.0
Sphagnum Peat 100.0 - 180.0
Humus 200.0
Peat moss : vermiculite 1:1 141.0
Peat moss : sand 1:1 8.0
Peat moss : perlite 1:3 11.0
Peat moss : perlite 2:1 24.0


Sources: see Bunt, A.C. 1988, and Landis, T. D. 1990.



Sphagnum peat moss

Sphagnum peat moss, derived from the genus Sphagnum, contains at
least 90% organic matter on a dry weight basis. In addition, this
peat moss contains a minimum of 75% Sphagnum fiber, consisting of
recognizable cells of leaves and stems. Approximately 25 species of
Sphagnum exist in Alberta, Canada and 335 species are present
throughout the world. Sphagnum fuscum is an important species bearing
many desirable traits. Sphagnum grows in northern cool regions and is
also located in peat bogs found in Washington, Maine, Minnesota, and
Michigan. Many pores are present in the leaves of sphagnum; when used
as growing media, as much as 93% of the water occupying this internal
pore space is available for plant uptake (Peck, 1984). After
draining, sphagnum peat can hold 59% water and 25% air by volume.
Sphagnum is usually characterized by an acidic pH, low soluble salts
content, structural integrity, and the ability to serve as a nutrient
reserve (Landis, 1990). Although peat mosses are classified into four
different groups, variation may exist within any one type of peat
moss. Peats of the same classification often differ notably in
quality, and even peats from the same bog taken from separate layers
can possess different chemical and physical properties.

Sphagnum peat moss is classified as light or dark peat, based on its
color. Light peats are characterized by a large amount of internal
pore space, 15-40% of the pore space comprises aeration porosity Dark
sphagnum peat does not display the elasticity of light peat and is
usually not as long lasting.. Dark sphagnum peat moss maintains twice
the cation exchange capacity of light peats, yet does not possess as
much total or aeration porosity. An associated table lists general
characteristics of sphagnum peat moss.

Inorganic media

Materials such as vermiculite, perlite, and sand represent the
inorganic fraction often used in container media formulations. These
materials generally increase the aeration porosity and drainage yet
decrease the water-holding porosity of media. Inorganic components
are usually inert materials characterized by a low cation exchange
capacity.

Vermiculite

Vermiculite is a commonly used inorganic media component which is
mined in the U.S. and Africa. This mineral, comprised of an
aluminum/iron/magnesium/silicate mixture, is excavated as a material
composed of thin layers. Processing includes heating the vermiculite
to temperatures upwards of 1000Æ'C, which converts water trapped
between the layers of the material into steam. The production of
steam results in a pressure that expands the material, increasing the
volume of the pieces 15 to 20 times their original size. Vermiculite
is sterile because of these high heating temperatures used during
processing. Vermiculite is characterized by a high water-holding
capacity as a result of its large surface area: volume ratio, a low
bulk density, nearly neutral pH, and a high cation exchange capacity
attributed to its platy structure. Because it compacts readily when
combined with heavier materials, vermiculite is sometimes recommended
more for propagating material than container media.

Vermiculite gradually releases nutrients for plant absorption; on
average it contains 5-8% available potassium and 9-12% magnesium.
This inorganic media component can adsorb phosphate--some of which
remains in an available form for plant uptake--but cannot adsorb
nitrate, chloride, or sulfate. Vermiculite can fix ammonium into a
form that is not readily available for plant absorption. This fixed
nitrogen is gradually transformed to nitrate by microorganisms,
making it available for plant uptake.

Vermiculite is manufactured in four different grades, differentiated
by particle size. Insulation grade vermiculite and that which is
marketed for poultry litter (which has not been treated with water
repellents) has been used with some success. Vermiculite which has
been treated with water repellent, such as block fill should not be
used as growing media. Because vermiculite tends to compact over
time, it should be incorporated with other materials such as peat or
perlite to maintain sufficient porosity. It should not be used in
conjunction with sand or as the sole media component, because as the
internal structure of vermiculite deteriorates, air porosity and
drainage decreases (Landis, 1990).

The particle size of vermiculite influences the water-holding and
aeration porosity of the material. Although grade classification is
based upon particle size, each grade is represented by a range of
particle sizes. Note that grades consisting of larger particle sizes
have a higher aeration porosity and lower water-holding porosity than
grades consisting of a smaller range of particle sizes. Properties of
the four vermiculite grades are shown in an associated table.

Perlite

A mineral of volcanic derivation, perlite is a second inorganic
component which may be used in formulating container mixes. This
chemically inert material is extracted in New Zealand, the U.S., and
other countries and is usually mined by scraping the earth's surface.
The processing method includes a grinding and heat treatment (up to
1000‰C) which results in very lightweight, white sterile
fragments.
As the ore is heated, internal water escapes as steam, resulting in
the expansion of the material.

Perlite has a very low cation exchange capacity, low water-holding
capacity (19%), and neutral pH. The closed-cell composition of
perlite contributes to its compaction resistance, enhances media
drainage, and heightens the aeration porosity of peat-based media
(Bilderback 1982). Because perlite contains only minute amounts of
plant nutrients, liquid feeding is a practical mode of fertilization.
Be aware of possible aluminum toxicity in acidic media (pH < 5).

The very low levels of fluoride perlite contains is not likely to
pose plant health problems. Any soluble fluoride present in a media
characterized by 6.0 < pH < 6.5 will precipitate out of the media
with excess calcium from sources such as gypsum, limestone, or
calcium nitrate.

Although perlite has several positive attributes, it also has
drawbacks. Perlite consists of many fine fragments which, when dry,
can lead to lung or eye irritation. In addition, because water clings
to the surface of perlite, it may tend to float in the presence of
water (Landis, 1990).

Perlite contains, on average, 47.5% oxygen, 33.8% silicon, 7.2%
aluminum, 3.5% potassium, 3.4% sodium, 3.0% bound water, 0.6% iron
and calcium, and 0.2% magnesium and trace elements (Perlite
Institute, 1983). Although a uniform categorization of perlite does
not exist, individual producers of this inorganic component assign
grade levels. Perlite classifications for horticultural use are
listed in an associated table. This inorganic media amendment is
sometimes recommended for use only in propagation media because of
its low bulk density and tendency to compact.

In comparison with sand, polystyrene, or pumice, perlite has the
greatest inner total porosity. Coarse perlite is characterized by
approximately 70% total porosity, 60% of which is aeration porosity.
Perlite can retain two to four times its dry weight in water, which
is much greater than that of sand and polystyrene, yet much less than
the water-holding capacity of peat and vermiculite (Moore, 1987).

Sand

Sand has been used as an inorganic media component to add ballast to
containers. Some sands contain calcium carbonate which may raise
media pH undesirably. A rise in pH may lead to nutrient deficiencies,
particularly of minor elements such as iron and boron. A few drops of
dilute hydrochloric acid or strong vinegar may be added to sand to
test for carbonates; if bubbling and fizzing result, carbonate is
present as a result of carbon dioxide production. Sand used for
container media should have a 6 < pH < 7. Sand maintains good
drainage, a low water-holding capacity, and a high bulk density when
used independently of other materials. Because of its shape and size,
sand can obstruct pore spaces, decreasing drainage and aeration,
instead of improving porosity. Various sand particle sizes have been
recommended for container media use, including ranges of 2-3 mm or
0.05 - 0.5 mm (fine sand) in size (Landis, 1990). In addition,
another recommendation suggests that 60% of the particles be within
0.25-1.0 mm range, and 97% be greater than 0.1 mm and less than 2 mm
(Swanson, 1989). Uniformity coefficients assigned to sand mixtures
signify the amount of sand which is within a certain size range; a
coefficient < 4 is evidence of a homogeneous sand mixture (Swanson,
1989). If the correct grade of sand is used, the wet ability of the
media is enhanced.

Calcined clays

When fired at high temperatures, some clays, fuel ash, and shales
form stable compounds that possess low bulk densities and internal
porosities of 40-50%. Though calcined clays alter the physical
attributes of media in a positive way, they also decrease the level
of water-soluble phosphorus in the mix. Because calcined clays are
characterized by a high cation exchange capacity, fertilizer
application rates may need to be modified if calcined aggregates are
incorporated into the media mixes (Bunt, 1988).

Pumice

Pumice is produced as volcanic lava cools; escaping steam and gas
contribute to its porous nature. This alumino-silicate material
contains potassium, sodium, magnesium, calcium, and slight amounts of
iron. Pumice can absorb K, Mg, P, and Ca from the soil solution and
render it available for plant absorption later (Bunt, 1988).
Group: AquaticLife Message: 38 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 10/11/2003
Subject: Let There Be Light!
In a message dated 8/22/2003 7:31:41 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
hjalti.andrason@... writes:


Let There Be Light!

Copyright 2000 by George and Karla Booth

Note: In case you get bored before you get to the end of this
article, I would like to recommend Aquarium Hobbyist Supply as a most
excellent source of compact fluorescent lighting kits and supplies.
The owner, Kim, has gone out of his way to develop a superb series of
lighting kits to suit any need. If you are retrofitting a standard
canopy or building a custom hood, AH Supply has what you need. Joe
Bob sez, "Two thumbs up!"

Humans have been using artificial lighting for a very long time. It
is second nature for us to walk into a darkened room, feel for a
light switch and light our way. Aquarists who have fish-only setups
have been using lighted hoods for many years and don't spend much
time struggling with the concept. Any bulb that fits in the hood and
has a pleasing spectrum is suitable. Many of the aquarium specific
bulbs are enhanced in the blue and red spectrum to bring out those
colors in the fish.

On the other hand, if you visit any of the Internet sites devoted to
planted aquaria you will quickly realize that lighting is a very
popular topic. You will also notice that the topic seems to be
fraught with misinformation, myths, wives tales and amazing claims by
lighting suppliers. So why is it that freshwater plant enthusiasts
end up thinking that proper lighting is "a puzzle wrapped in an
enigma"?

One of the most common questions asked is "What's the best light for
plants?" This question seems to get the most varied answers simply
because "best" can be defined in so many ways. Are you trying to
optimize intensity? Are you looking for the best spectrum for growth?
Do you desire a natural appearance? Do you want to take prize-winning
photos? Are energy costs critical? Is the initial expense a stumbling
block? Do you have a closed hood or open top? How deep is your tank?

If you don't know much about lighting terminology and technology,
these can be difficult questions to answer. But, armed with a little
knowledge, you can easily optimize your lighting setup to suit the
needs of your tank inhabitants and your personal preferences.
Lighting can seem complicated, especially when an expert starts
spouting impressive sounding terms, but it is really very
straightforward.

The are many benefits associated with optimum lighting. If you are
growing live plants, proper lighting is critical to good growth and
plant health. If you are interested in photographing your aquariums,
whether for contests or publication, good full spectrum lighting will
make your job a lot easier. Finally, with the correct lighting, you
will find that your aquarium, whether it's fish-only or fully
planted, will be displayed at its best. Professionals in
the "display" business, such as museums and art galleries, know that
proper lighting is the number one way to showcase their collections.
Our fish and plants deserve no less!

Lighting Terminology

Understanding the meaning of a few key terms is the first step in the
search for success with lighting.

Watts

Bulbs come in various wattage ratings. This describes how much
electrical power a bulb uses and does not describe how much light it
generates. Different bulb technologies will produce differing amounts
of light per watt. More technically, different types of bulbs are
more efficient at converting electrical energy into light energy. For
example, a typical fluorescent bulb is four times as bright as the
same wattage incandescent bulb and a metal halide bulb is two times
as bright as the same wattage fluorescent bulb. Even within a
technology, light energy per watt will vary. All normal output 40-
watt fluorescent bulbs draw 430 ma of current but vary greatly in how
efficiently they convert the energy from the resulting internal arc
into light.

Unfortunately for the aquarist, wattage is the simplest and most
common way to specify how much light is needed even though it is not
an accurate measure. It is very common to see "use 2-3 watts per
gallon of fluorescent light for plants". This is a very coarse rule
because it doesn't take into account the efficiency of the bulbs, the
type of reflector, the form factor of the tank or the type of plants
being grown. But it is a good starting point because all bulbs are
rated in watts. It's the least common denominator of light bulb
specifications and it may be satisfactory for a lot of plant
enthusiasts.

Lumens

Lumens are is the total amount of light that a bulb is capable of
generating. This information should be readily available, either on
the bulb package or from manufacturer's data sheets. It may take some
digging to find it though. There are two values usually quoted for
fluorescent bulbs: initial lumens and design lumens. Initial lumens
describe how much light it produces when first turned on. Design
lumens describe how much light it will produce for a much longer
term. After an initial 20% drop in brightness, the light output will
slowly decrease over the lifetime of the bulb.

Lumens are somewhat misleading since they are geared towards what the
human eye perceives. Human eye response is very sensitive to green
light and less sensitive to the red and blue ends of the visible
spectrum. Conversely, plants are more sensitive to red and blue light
than green. A bulb heavily weighted to produce light in the green
spectrum bands will be perceived as much brighter to the eye than
bulbs that concentrate energy in other bands but plants will not be
able to use much of the energy. A "Cool White" fluorescent bulb
(designed to take advantage of this phenomenon) looks bright to us
and has a high lumen rating but won't grow plants as well as other
types of bulbs. The bottom line is that even if a bulb has a high
lumen rating, it might not be suitable for aquarium lighting.

The lumen rating is a better way to specify lighting than watts since
it describes how much light is available. But it still falls short in
that all the lumens might not reach the plants and it doesn't
describe the energy bands that are generated. A bulb might have lots
of lumens but much of the light might be lost because of a poor
reflector design or the light might be in a part of the spectrum
where plants have poor response.

Lux

Lux is a measure of the actual intensity of the light falling on a
specified area and is a much better way to describe lighting
requirements. Lux is defined as lumens per square meter.
Unfortunately, since lux depends on the how the light gets from the
bulb to the area, the manufacturer can't specify it - it has to be
measured by the aquarist. Hobbyist luxmeters are available for under
$150 and are invaluable for the serious light cognoscente. Also note
that since lux are defined in terms of lumens, they also suffer from
a bias towards human eye response.

CRI

This is the Color Rendering Index and describes how closely a light
source renders colors compared to "standard" sunlight as observed by
a "standard" human eye. A perfect source would score 100. Full
spectrum bulbs rate in the 90s. CRI is usually specified for higher
quality fluorescent bulbs but does not seem to be a valuable measure
for bulbs used in planted tanks. Bulbs with a high CRI may not
necessarily have the right spectrum for plants and may not be bright
enough for good plant growth.

Kelvin Temperature (K) or Color Temperature

This describes the overall color of the light but not the spectral
components. If a light source is stated as 5000K, it is the same
color as a radiating black body (a physics term) heated to that
temperature. Incandescent bulbs are around 2700K
(reddish), "daylight" is roughly 5500K and higher color temperatures
look more blue. In an aquarium setting, daylight or 5500K bulbs may
look a little yellow while 6500K bulbs have a pleasing white light.

Spectrum

This describes the wavelengths of light that make up the light
source. Visible light is a continuous band of colors ranging from
violet to red (wavelengths of 380 nanometers to 700 nanometers).
Sunlight and incandescent light are composed of all visible
wavelengths. Fluorescent and metal halide bulbs emit only a few
wavelengths ("spikes"), depending on the phosphors and rare earths
used. Most fluorescent bulbs emit two strong spikes to generate a
particular color temperature. A newer type of bulb called "tri-
phosphor" adds a rare-earth phosphor to generate a wider spectrum of
light - usually three spikes - and is strong in the green spectrum.
Tri-phosphor bulbs are more expensive than other bulbs but generally
give a pleasing appearance to the aquarium and are well suited for
good plant growth.

PAR

Photosynthetic Active Radiation is the true measure of how plants
respond to light. Just as lumens are keyed to human eye response, PAR
is keyed to photosynthetic response. If bulbs were rated in PAR, it
would be easy to select the best bulb for plant growth (but not
necessarily for good appearance). Unfortunately, PAR meters are
expensive and are not generally available to hobbyists and few if any
bulb manufacturers supply PAR specifications. So, until someone sees
the light, we are stuck with selecting the best bulb based on the
other ratings.

Lighting Technology

Aquarists will typically use one of three types of lighting:
incandescent, fluorescent or high intensity discharge. Sometimes
combinations of lighting technology are used for special purposes.
Also, some plant enthusiasts will augment artificial light with
sunlight but, of course, sunlight is hard to control.

Incandescent

Incandescent lights were the original source of light for indoor
aquariums. Although cheap and plentiful, they have serious drawbacks.
First, they aren't very efficient - they generate a lot of heat for
the lumens they produce. This fact alone makes them useful for only
the smallest tanks. Secondly, although they are "full spectrum" in
the sense that they generate all bands of visible light, their color
temperature is only around 2700K. The result will be a reddish
appearance and plants will have a sickly yellow color.

"Halogen bulbs" are a newer form of incandescent lighting. These
produce a whiter light than normal incandescent bulbs and can be
obtained in small sizes for aquariums under 10 gallons. They still
have the drawback of inefficiency and the light will still look a
little yellow compared to better fluorescent lighting. One option is
to use this type of lighting to highlight a specific plant or create
a special effect. Amazon sword plants seem to do well when some
incandescent light is available.

Fluorescent

Fluorescent is the most commonly used lighting for aquariums because
of its efficiency, low cost and form factor (long and thin). There
are many choices in fluorescent lights, which has led to a lot of
confusion among aquarists.

There are three categories of bulbs commonly in use today. The most
familiar is the standard fluorescent bulb. These bulbs are nominally
rated at 10 watts per foot - 48" 40-watt, 36" 30-watt, etc. They are
often classified by their diameter in eighths of an inch. For
example, a "T12" bulb is 1 1/2 inches across. Forty-watt bulbs
usually come in T12 and sometimes T10 sizes but lower wattage bulbs
can be anywhere from 1/2" in diameter on up. Standard bulbs can be
further classified as normal output (NO), high output (HO) and very
high output (VHO). NO bulbs are by far the most common and are used
in most commercial aquarium hoods. The higher output bulbs draw more
current and produce more light in the same space but you need special
ballasts to drive them and you may need fans to cool them. One
advantage of the standard NO bulbs are the wide variety available -
almost any color temperature and spectrum can be obta! ined.

Standard NO bulbs can be run with older-style "tar" ballasts
(essentially special purpose transformers) or with more modern
electronic ballasts. Higher output bulbs require specially designed
electronic ballasts. An electronic ballast is preferred over a tar
ballast because they are much more energy efficient (producing far
less heat) and drive the bulb with a higher frequency signal
(producing more lumens).

You may find inexpensive shop lights for around $10 that
claim "energy savings" and "electronic ballasts". You should avoid
these - they save energy simply by supplying less power to the bulb
and, as a consequence, the bulb will produce less lumens than it
should. Also, they use a simple capacitor-inductor circuit instead of
a ballast that can reduce the lifetime of your bulbs.

A newer style of bulb is a true "energy saving" fluorescent bulb. It
is commonly seen in a 48" long, 32-watt T8 bulb. Even though they
have a lower wattage rating, they produce the same or more lumens
than standard 40-watt bulbs. The bulbs themselves are more efficient
and use electronic ballasts especially designed for them. This
combination will lower your overall energy costs. Currently there are
fewer choices available in T8 bulbs but that should change in the
future - energy saving bulbs are mandated to replace standard bulbs
because of their higher efficiency and manufacturers will be
developing complete lines of these bulbs.

The newest fluorescent bulb in the aquarium market is the "compact
fluorescent" (CF) bulb. They are so named because the bulb is long
and skinny and usually is folded in half. This allows you to have
more light per inch - especially valuable for aquariums less than 48"
long. CF bulbs are designed to use efficient electronic ballasts.
Furthermore, because the tube is skinny, a very efficient reflector
can be designed for them, increasing the amount of lux produced.
There are fewer color choices available in CF bulbs but there is a
large enough selection to satisfy the needs of most aquarists.

A typical CF bulb is a 36-watt bulb that is only 17" long and 2"
wide! One can easily fit four of these over a standard 75-gallon
aquarium (48" long by 18" wide), giving you 2 watts per gallon. This
may seem like the low end of the "2-3 watts per gallon" rule, but the
CF bulbs produce more lumens per watt than standard fluorescent
bulbs. Combined with an efficient reflector, this combination will
produce enough light to grow even the most demanding plants.

The photo shows four 55-watt CF bulbs (22" long) installed in a hood
for a 100 gallon tank (60" x 18"). Note that there is still room for
a small 13-watt red CF "night light" in the middle rear. These lights
were obtained from a company that sells a full line of CF lights for
aquarists, Aquarium Hobbyist Supply (http://www.ahsupply.com).

High Intensity Discharge

To get the maximum light in the least space, many aquarists turn to
high intensity discharge (HID) technology. The systems used on
aquariums are usually mercury vapor (MV) or metal halide (MH) lights.
These lights are related to the orange sodium vapor lights seen in
parking lots. All the systems use a small bulb containing a metal
(sodium, mercury or halides) that is vaporized by an arc in the bulb.
The vaporized metal then gives off the light we see. The small bulb
is usually enclosed on a larger bulb that offers UV protection. These
bulbs are very efficient and give off intense light - typical bulbs
are rated at 175-watts and 250-watts. These bulbs also require
special ballasts to drive them. They are very popular in reef setups
and hydroponics culture.

MV and MH lights are ideal for suspended hoods over large open-top
aquariums. Typical applications will have two 175-watt bulbs over a
48" long tank or three 175-watt bulbs over 72" and 96" long tanks.
Bulbs are available in color temperatures of 4300K and 5500K
(suitable for planted tanks) and higher color temperatures more
suited for reef tanks. One very nice visual side effect of this type
of light is that it is close to a "point source" and will cast
shadows in the tank just like real sunlight.

Recommendations

Without getting too involved with measurements and esoteric
specifications, the old "2-3 watts per gallon" rule still holds
fairly well for fluorescent bulbs and typical tank dimensions. The
type of plants you grow and how densely the tank is planted will
determine how efficient your light system needs to be.

There are many directions you can take to improve your current
lighting system. If you already have a good quality system, you might
consider the age of the bulbs. Fluorescent and HID bulbs degrade with
age and may lose up to 50% of their initial intensity after a year of
operation. While the bulbs may have been bright enough when they were
new, they may be sub-optimal now. MH bulbs will also see a spectrum
shift with age, drifting toward a lower color temperature. If you
have a multi-bulb set up you should change a single bulb periodically
to avoid sudden changes in light intensity. If you aren't using tri-
phosphor bulbs, you might consider investing in better quality bulbs
as you change them.

If your aquarium hood does not have a reflector, you can improve the
amount of light reaching the water by either painting the inside
white or lining it with silver Mylar film available at hydroponics
stores. If you can fabricate a metal reflector in a W-shape or a
parabolic shape, so much the better. But keep in mind that standard
T12 fluorescent bulbs are fat and will block a lot of light being
reflected ("restrike"). Thinner bulbs like T8 or CF permit a much
better reflector.

If you still have older tar ballasts, investing in electronic
ballasts will improve the light output and reduce your electricity
bills. If you are changing ballasts, you may want to consider the
energy efficient T8 bulbs as well.

If you are starting out with a commercial aquarium light hood, you
may find that it is insufficient no matter how you upgrade the
existing lights. A 55-gallon tank may come equipped with two 20-watt
bulbs. There is no way you can enhance the output of 20-watt bulbs to
provide even 2 watts per gallon! The best course of action is to
consider retrofitting the hood with CF bulbs. With the proper CF
retrofit kit, even a small 10-gallon aquarium can have enough light
to grow the most light-loving plants.

We hope that this article has made it easier for you to determine if
your lighting is as good as it can be. Knowing the terminology and
options available should allow you to intelligently sort through ads
and data sheets to find the system components that are right for you.

Next time you lift your hood and are blinded by the light, ask
yourself what your plants may think. To you, the light is blinding;
to the plants, light is life itself. Carefully inspect your bulbs,
ballasts and reflectors to see if any changes are needed
Group: AquaticLife Message: 39 From: Trudy Ginest Date: 10/11/2003
Subject: too many snails
Hi,
I hope someone has an answer to my problem. When we set us a 55 gal
aquarium, we stocked it with small fish- tetras, cherry barbs,
rasboras, minnows, guppies, danios,dwarf frogs, a clown
plecostimus,cory doras, and a left over(from another aquarium)
chinese alge eater, and planted it with live plants. well these
live plants came with their own additions in the form of little
black snails. Now I am over run with these little critters and have
eggs that I scrape off the sides and everything else in the tank. I
pick out as many as I can each week and anytime I do a water
change. I want to know if there is any preditor that I can add to
the tank that will dine on the snails and leave my fish alone, or am
I going to have to think about using a snail-a-cide to get rid of
these over population advicates or what?
Will I be better off starting over on the plants? The leaves were
covered in the eggs and I really trimmed the leaves off. Have done
that several times and they do come back. Someone mentioned that
they thought that the bali shark would eat the snails but didn't
know what they'd do to my fish. I would appreciate any help and
advice anyone could give me.
Thanks,
Trudy
Group: AquaticLife Message: 40 From: a2kelley Date: 10/12/2003
Subject: community suggestions?
I have 2 tanks: ph 8.0, gH/kH 107, eclipse
filtration/illumination/biowheel hoods

15g -- 3 zebra danios, 3 leopard danios, 4 pristella tetras, 2 otos, 1
cory, 1 male betta

29g -- 6 platies, 2 guppies, 2 otos, 1 cory

I'm looking to fill out the 29 a bit. I was considering moving the
tetras from the 15 to the 29, but was told the tetras would
bother/kill the guppies. I've also considered moving the betta
somewhere and moving the danios/tetras from the 15 into the 29, and
move the guppies into the 15 and have a guppy only tank with the 2
otos and the cory. my main goal is to find a compatible fish for the
29 that will swim mostly near the bottom. I love the look of a school
moving back and forth...

suggestions?
Group: AquaticLife Message: 41 From: Aaron Martin Date: 10/12/2003
Subject: Re: community suggestions?
Attachments :
    Note: forwarded message attached.

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Aaron Martin" <massagetherapist@...>
    Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:01:48 +0800
    To: "a2kelley" <a2kelley@...>
    Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] community suggestions?




    Aaron R. Martin, cmt
    (925)337-2340 cellular

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    Group: AquaticLife Message: 42 From: Aaron Martin Date: 10/12/2003
    Subject: Re: too many snails

    hi Trudy, welcome to the group

    'snail-a-cides' (copper based) will kill the live plants as well

    loaches will eat snails, Clown loaches are the most popular and mine are very docile

    put a large leaf of lettuce in the tank overnight & the snails will get on it & can be easily removed

    snails only breed if there is an abundance of food, try reducing the # of feedings and quantity and see if it slows down the snail population after a few weeks

    my fish find the snails very tasty, they fight over them more than any other food, i just smash then against the glass and watch the feeding freenzy

    there are chemicals that plants can be dipped into to dry out the eggs & kill the snails (i think alum or mm 222)

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Trudy Ginest"
    Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 02:17:33 -0000
    To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] too many snails

    Hi,
    I hope someone has an answer to my problem.  When we set us a 55 gal
    aquarium, we stocked it with small fish- tetras, cherry barbs,
    rasboras, minnows, guppies, danios,dwarf frogs, a clown
    plecostimus,cory doras, and a left over(from another aquarium)
    chinese alge eater, and planted it with live plants.  well these
    live plants came with their own additions in the form of little
    black snails.  Now I am over run with these little critters and have
    eggs that I scrape off the sides and everything else in the tank.  I
    pick out as many as I can each week  and anytime I do a water
    change.  I want to know if there is any preditor that I can add to
    the tank that will dine on the snails and leave my fish alone, or am
    I going to have to think about using a snail-a-cide to get rid of
    these over population advicates or what?
    Will I be better off starting over on the plants?  The leaves were
    covered in the eggs and I really trimmed the leaves off.  Have done
    that several times and they do come back.  Someone mentioned that
    they thought that the bali shark would eat the snails but didn't
    know what they'd do to my fish.  I would appreciate any help and
    advice anyone could give me.
          Thanks,
           Trudy



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    Aaron R. Martin, cmt
    (925)337-2340 cellular
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    Group: AquaticLife Message: 43 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 10/15/2003
    Subject: Fishy social climbers change size and sex
    an excerpt from M. REED ENTERPRISES' MONTHLY PALAVER (#55 - 10/15/03)

    Many of us have seen fish on our tanks actually change sex. This is
    fairly common among some livebearers. When I was raising many
    swordtails about three decades ago, I remember seeing quite a few sex
    changes. Of course it is easy to tell when a swordtail changes sex
    cause any male has that rod-like gonopodium in place of an anal fin
    and also has a "sword". I seem to remember that the changes
    took
    place in groups of swordtails where one sex became much more abundant
    than the other by chance.

    Below is an interesting article about sex changes in a marine
    species.




    Fishy social climbers change size and sex

    Clownfish can moderate their size, sex and growth rate in order to
    assume their correct place in the social hierarchy, according to a
    Brief Communication in this week's Nature.

    Peter Buston studied groups of clownfish living in tanks. Each group
    is made up of a breeding pair and up to four non-breeders. Top of the
    pack is the largest fish, a female breeder. The second-largest fish
    is the breeding male, followed by non-breeders, which get
    progressively smaller as their rank decreases. If the top-ranking
    female is removed, the breeding male changes sex, increases in size
    and becomes the female breeder, Buston found. The largest non-breeder
    becomes the breeding male, and the effect is passed on down the
    chain. All fish move up a notch and increase in size.

    The strategy has evolved to prevent conflict between group members,
    ensuring that subordinates do not become a threat to their dominants.
    The results indicate that the growth rate and size adopted by group-
    living organisms can be a strategic response to the social
    environment.

    CONTACT:
    Peter Buston (Cornell University, Ithaca, NY, USA • currently at:
    University of California, Santa Barbara, CA, USA)
    Tel: +1 805 892 2527, E-mail: buston@...
    Group: AquaticLife Message: 44 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 10/15/2003
    Subject: What To Do When The Power Goes Out
    Here is another brief article of interest, this off a fish site on
    the internet:



    · What To Do When The Power Goes Out
    All year round there are storms, tornados, hurricanes, and blizzards.
    All of these common events, and others that may not be so common, can
    cause your power to go out. There are several things that can happen
    to your tank while the power is out.

    · It can get too hot

    · It can get too cold

    · Lack of surface movement prevents the gas to oxygen exchange

    · Fish can suffocate

    · Bacteria can die off

    · Live plants can die

    · Fish can die

    Your tank can crash, leaving you with an underwater wasteland and
    causing you to have to start your tank from scratch. There are many
    things you can do to try and prevent this from happening, and the
    time of year will determine what measures you need to take to make
    sure most everything in your aquarium survives.

    One of the first things you will need to do is prepare everything
    before the power goes out. There are several items you will need to
    buy and keep on hand just in case.

    · A generator. This will take care of all your tanks' needs and
    nothing else will be necessary

    · A battery operated air pump, more than one for larger tanks or
    several tanks

    · Battery operated fans

    · Battery operated heaters

    · Kerosene heaters

    · Large blankets

    No matter what time of year it is, if you can afford it, a generator
    can power all of your aquariums' basic equipment and will be the only
    thing you will need to save your fish if the power goes out, well the
    only thing other than the gas to power it. If you don't have or can't
    afford a generator one major thing to keep in mind, which will
    prevent your water parameters from going completely out of whack, is
    to reduce or cut out feedings completely.

    During Warmer Weather

    Warm weather will cause your tank to overheat pretty quickly, and you
    will need to be prepared to keep it cool if the power goes out, along
    with making sure oxygen can get to the bacteria and fish. The first
    thing you will want to do is open doors and windows so air can
    circulate through your home. A closed up home is a heat trap and the
    temperature in your tank will rise more quickly. Next, you will need
    to hook up your battery-operated air pump to get some water
    circulation. This will help with the gas to oxygen exchange and
    provide the oxygen both fish and bacteria need to live. Also, since
    water circulation helps in cooling a tank, it will help keep the
    temperature down. If you notice your tank temperature start to rise,
    add the battery-operated fans and direct them to blow across the
    surface. This will help to cool your tank off even more.

    If by chance a power outage catches you unprepared there are other
    things you can do to help keep your tank cool and help with the gas
    to oxygen exchange. You can cool your tank off by doing small water
    changes if you notice the temperature starting to rise, and to cool
    it off further you can add ice cubes to a baggie and place them in
    the tank. However, it is best to only use the ice cubes in dire
    situations, since they will cause parts of the tank to become cooler
    than others. Fish that swim through these cool areas will become
    stressed. Not only will doing small water changes help cool your
    tank, but since it will cause surface movement, it will also help
    with the gas to oxygen exchange. Another way to help is by agitating
    the water manually every 30 minutes for a couple of minutes at a
    time. You can do this by taking a large spoon that you have rinsed
    thoroughly to remove any soap residue, or by using your hand. If you
    have carnivores like piranha it would be best ! to use a spoon. Even
    though fish can handle warmer water for short periods of time, it is
    very important to remember that warmer water contains less oxygen so
    it is imperative that you keep the surface moving as much as
    possible.

    During Cooler Weather

    The opposite challenge is how to keep your tanks warm during the
    colder months. This is perhaps even more difficult than trying to
    cool them off. The first thing you will want to do when the power
    goes out is wrap your tank in blankets. This will help to keep the
    heat from escaping your tank, although it won't prevent it
    completely. After several hours you will notice a drop in the
    temperature, but by wrapping it in blankets it will give you time to
    take other measures. One way of warming a tank up is by warming up
    the room it's in, and this would not only benefit your tank, but
    everyone else in the house as well. Battery operated heaters can
    help; you can also use kerosene heaters if local ordinances allow
    them, but be aware of safety and ventilation concerns. Woodstoves and
    fireplaces in the same room as the tanks can help too. Don't
    forget
    to hook up your battery-operated air pump so it can keep the water
    circulating and help with the gas to oxygen exchange. If it the
    temperature starts to drop too much and you have a grill of some
    type, you can place heated stones or even potatoes in the tank. If
    you're using stones make sure they won't affect your pH
    before
    placing them in the tank. You can check to see if they will affect
    your pH by pouring vinegar over them; if the vinegar bubbles then
    they will affect your pH. Also make sure you clean them thoroughly
    before placing them in your tank. As in the warmer months, make sure
    you provide surface movement with either your hand or a spoon.
    Group: AquaticLife Message: 45 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 10/22/2003
    Subject: power compact flourescent lighting
    Hi all,
    I have a 55 gallon tank that measures 48" long x 12" wide x 20"
    deep. It currently has only 2 - 15 watt flourescent bulbs. I want to
    grow more plants, but have been told I need more light in order to
    convert to a planted tank. The common suggestion I've been getting is
    2 - 3 watts per gallon or 110 - 165 watts. I am further confused by
    the 'lumens', 'Lux', 'CRI', 'spectrum' and 10,000K - 8,500K - 6,700K
    ratings. I have Fresh/Brackish Water w/ mostly Mollies & Swordtails.
    The plants I have so far are stuggling to survive or just getting by
    while some seem to be dying rapidly. I have Java Ferns, Java
    Moss, Anachris, Hornwort, Banana plant, Amazon & Microchain swords,
    and other unknown varietys from bulbs.

    I see that there are several 48" light fixtures to choose from
    and would like your experience in helping to pick the proper setup.
    The main differance I see is 2 or 4 lights at 65w each for a total of
    130w or 260w. Since some of the plants seem to be be doing ok w/ only
    30w, I would think adding 100w more should be enough, whereas adding
    an additional 230 might be too much. Is there such thing as too much
    light? Do plants melt if overlit?

    What brand, make or models do you use? Where did you buy them?
    Do they include the right lights for planted freshwater tanks? Most
    fixtures I've seen at the LFS have the 50/50 lights setup for corals.
    I asked them if they would switch out the light bulbs for what I need
    and they all said I would have to buy them seperatly, but then what
    do I do w/ the lights I can't use.


    What do you recommend? I have included some of the fixtures found on
    the www.thatpetplace.com site.

    48" Aqualight (Fresh) 2-65W Lamp Str Pin(ESU) Item number ES0851
    This unit features a built in electronic ballast and cooling fan, a
    on/off switch, sleek aluminum housing, highly polished reflector,
    acrylic lens cover, (2) 65 watt European straight square pin
    arrangement lamps.
    Great for freshwater and planted aquariums.
    Dimensions: Unit is 48" long x 5" wide x 2.5" high.
    Warranty: This unit has a one year warranty.
    Optional item: Replacement lamp ES0822
    You Pay: $ 119.99----In Stock: Yes*


    48" Aqualight (Salt) 2-65W Lamp Str Pin (ESU) Item number ES0796
    This is a sleek & streamlined fixture designed to enhance &
    complement aquariums. The compact & low-profile style is suitable for
    applications where space is limited. It is equipped with a modern
    aluminum housing & highly-polished aluminum reflector for optimal
    lighting. It includes one 10,000k & one actinic blue 03 bulb that
    enhances both color & clarity in the tank & a protective acrylic lens
    which allows for easy access to the lamps. These full-spectrum lamps
    provide the aquarium's inhabitants with the proper light required for
    essential biochemical reactions. This fixture has a built-in ballast.
    Good for freshwater, saltwater or reef aquariums.
    Dimensions: 48" L X 7" W X 2 1/2" H.
    Directions: Place fixture on top of aquarium cover so that the lamp
    provides maximum exposure of beneficial light to all inhabitants.
    Optional items: Glass canopy Actinic bulb ES0689 10,000K bulb ES0688
    (This is a 55 watt bulb which will fit this fixture, or you can use
    any other 55 watt or 65 watt bulb that has the European Straight pin
    style arrangement.) You Pay: $ 119.99----In Stock: Yes*


    Smart Lite 48" 2x65W Power Compact (Custom Sea)
    The Smart-Lite Power Compact Fixture is a complete power compact
    fixture that contains the revolutionary new Smart-Lamp, the world's
    first true 50% daylight and 50% actinic lamp side by side. Surrounded
    by a marine grade black powder coated metal housing, the Smart-Lite
    has a built in reflector for increased light output. Its
    state-of-the-art energy efficient electronic ballast provides optimal
    lamp output at peak performance. Enclosed fixture has top & side
    vents & moisture resistant endcaps which makes it ideal for fresh,
    salt, & reef aquariums. Comes with two 24" 65 watt bulbs.
    You Pay: $ 149.99----In Stock: Yes*


    48" High Output Compact Fluor - Black (Oceanic)
    It takes an exceptional design to obtain a UL Listing on a high
    output compact fluorescent strip-light due to the stringent test
    involved. This quality engineered, latest design, high output compact
    fluorescent strip-light features an electronic ballast that is UL
    listed. Two GE 9325K lamps are included. Provides "super
    daylight" fresh and saltwater color. This strip light is for use
    over glass tops only. Comes with a 5 year warranty. This fixture can
    be used with a timer.
    You Pay: $ 125.99----In Stock: No*


    48" Dual Light Strip (ESU)
    Space age highly polished anodized reflector. Multi-faceted design
    for 99.9% reflectivity. Low profile for easy retrofitting. Only
    5" wide to fit existing canopies and hoods. Mounting kit
    included. Compact electronic ballast with mounting bracket uses 35%
    less energy than conventional tar ballasts. The electronic ballast
    also increases lamp life. The ballast contains an on/off switch 6'
    power cord, 6' cord from ballast to fixture, BJB end caps. The dual
    light fixtures take T-12 bulbs. (not included)
    You Pay: $ 93.99----In Stock: Yes



    48" Aqualight (Fresh) 4-65W Lamp Str Pin(ESU) Item number ES0854
    This unit features a built in electronic ballast and (2) cooling
    fans, (2) on/off switchs and (2) power cords for separate timers,
    sleek aluminum housing, highly polished reflector, acrylic lens
    cover, (4) 65 watt European straight pin arrangement lamps. Great for
    freshwater and planted aquariums.
    Dimensions: Unit is 48" long x 7" wide x 2.5" high.
    Warranty: This unit has a one year warranty.
    Optional item: Replacement lamp ES0822
    You Pay: $ 239.99----In Stock: Yes*









    Aaron R. Martin, cmt
    (925)337-2340 cellular

    --
    Group: AquaticLife Message: 46 From: Aaron Martin Date: 10/30/2003
    Subject: September News from The Farm
    Attachments :
      From: "The Bug Farm" <jim@...>
      Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 10:04:09 -0700 (PDT)
      Subject: September News from The Farm

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      Group: AquaticLife Message: 47 From: Aaron Martin Date: 10/30/2003
      Subject: News from The Farm
      Attachments :
        From: "The Bug Farm" <jim@...>
        Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 23:34:30 -0700 (PDT)
        Subject: News from The Farm

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        Group: AquaticLife Message: 48 From: Aaron Martin Date: 10/31/2003
        Subject: Basics of Fish Care
        Attachments :
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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 49 From: Aaron Martin Date: 11/2/2003
          Subject: Re: Fish Question ( HM & SD Betta Breeders )
          Hi Noel & syokoiboi,

          I was curious as to if either of you had found the breeders you were looking for? Are there any clubs in the Bay Area?
          Are either of you experienced with breeding them?

          I bought another male 3 weeks ago, my first died last month. 2 days ago I bought my first female. It wasn't planned, but I was buying plants & food and there was this beautiful, very healthy female w/ similar colors as the male. They are from different stores in different cities, but I did not ask about the suppliers. Since I don't know if the are from the same parents, would it be bad to try and breed them?
          I bought a book specifically on Bettas and there seems to be alot more to this than I assumed.

          Any advice would be helpful,
          thank you,
          Aaron Martin 925.337.2340




          ----- Original Message -----
          From: NAdvincula@...
          Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 13:09:04 EDT
          To: MassageTherapist@...
          Subject: Fish Question

          > I just joined your site about fish and aquariums. You have listed bettas as
          > one of the fish you have. Do you breed them also? I've been trying to find a
          > good breeder for halfmoons ans superdeltas in the Bay Area and been pretty
          > unsuccessful. Pet stores are really not very helpful because they are hard to get
          > and low demands. The ones you can bid on have exorbitant shipping, YIKES!
          > Any help would be appreciated.
          > Thanks,
          > Noel



          Aaron R. Martin, cmt
          (925)337-2340 cellular

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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 50 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 11/2/2003
          Subject: beginner Betta breeding ?'s
          Hi all,

          I bought another male 3 weeks ago, my first died in September. 2 days
          ago I bought my first female. It wasn't planned, but I was buying
          plants & food and there was this beautiful, very healthy female w/
          similar colors as the male. They are from different stores in
          different cities, but I did not ask about the suppliers.
          Since I don't know if the are from the same parents, would it be bad
          to try and breed them?

          These are not any special variety as far as I can tell, just the
          common $4 LFS 'veil tail'. He is the first I've found w/ completely
          perfect finnage. When I bought him he was a nice aquamarine-teal, now
          his colors are mostly green-blue-purple-red-black, he seems to change
          colors like the cars w/ special 'hypercolor' paint that looks
          different depending on the angle.
          She seems to change colors as well, like a mood ring, when I first
          put her in the tank she showed stripes running laterally and was
          mostly black, now she is very colorful like him plus she has small
          black dots on her fins.

          I bought a book specifically on Bettas and there seems to be alot
          more to this than I assumed.

          They are currently in a 10 gallon tank with lots of live plants. She
          is in a small floating breeding trap that is clear plastic, I wanted
          to observe her for a couple weeks to make sure she is completly
          healthy before strating to breed. He occasionaly swims up to her and
          flares for a few seconds, but she seems rather indifferent.

          I have been feeding them 4 different dry Betta foods as well as a
          variety of the other dry foods I have. The book says to condition
          them w/ live foods, but I have not yet done this as I'm not ready for
          them to breed.
          What are the best dry/frozen/Freeze Dried/Live foods for Bettas & fry?

          I removed the small powerhead and replaced it w/ an airstone for the
          undergravel filter, to reduce the surface turbulence. There is a
          small foam/sponge filter and an air wand that runs 2/3 the length of
          the tank in the bottom back. I have been watching to see if he starts
          to build a bubble nest.

          The pH is 7.2, temp 78F, 0 Ammonia & NitrItes, 6 dGH, 3 dKH.
          What are the ideal water conditions for breeding?

          Are there any fish and/or Betta clubs in the San Francisco Bay Area?
          Are any of you experienced with breeding them?

          Any advice would be helpful,
          thank you,
          Aaron Martin
          Livermore CA
          925.337.2340
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 51 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 11/2/2003
          Subject: breeding Anabantoids
          here is something I just found at - http://www.tripleasterix.co.uk/



          Anabantoids are fish that have a labyrinth organ; these fish include
          Siamese fighting fish and gouramis.

          The male builds a bubble nest to keep the eggs and fry in.

          Below is my guide to breeding these fascinating fish:

          You must first condition the two fish you have chosen to become
          parents. Conditioning is when you feed a fish live food almost
          everyday and extra flake food to get them ready for spawning and to
          get the female full of eggs. You should condition the fish for 3-4
          weeks for optimum results.

          A spawning aquarium should be made ready.
          There should be no substrate in the bottom of the aquarium.
          Water should be left in it for a week to mature and it should be
          softened.
          A sponge filter or small box filter should be put into the aquarium
          but should not be turned on.
          The water should be still so the male can construct a bubble nest.
          Introduce the male to the aquarium and leave him they're alone
          for 24
          hours.
          The next day, add the female in a floating breeding trap and leave
          her in that for 24 hours.
          Raise the temperature in the aquarium gradually by 1-2 degrees and
          let the female loose.
          The male will chase the female and will coax her under his bubble
          nest. If he doesn't after 12 hours take the female out put her into
          the floating breeding trap and try again the next day.
          When the female is under the bubble nest he will wrap himself around
          her so she drops a few eggs.
          She will be momentarily shocked; he will pick up the eggs in his
          mouth and blow them so they are safe in the bubbles. They will
          continue with this for hours.
          When you believe the female is tired remove her back to her home and
          treat any wounds she may have and give her some live food as a treat!
          He will constantly care for the eggs and the fry.
          He will keep collecting them and bringing them back to the nest.
          After the fry have hatched if he isn't interested remove him and
          lower the water level to about 5cm deep.
          The eggs hatch in 3-4 days and will look like little threads
          dangling from the bubbles.
          When the bubble nest ceases to exist turn on the filter.
          The fry will eat liquifry and infusoria. Leaving a slice of cucumber
          or lettuce in the water can create Infusoria.
          As they grow you can feed them baby brine shrimp and microworms.
          When the male looks bored of caring for the fry remove him he may
          turn cannibalistic!
          At one month old the sex of the fry will be easy to distinguish and
          the males should be removed and kept in solitary confinement.
          The females can be kept together alike how they do throughout their
          life.
          2-3 months later you could sell these fry to your LFS, give them to
          friends, trade them or just keep them or at least some of them.
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 52 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 11/15/2003
          Subject: Welcome to Mike Reed and introducing M. Reed Enterprises & the Mont

          Hello and Welcome to all the new members.

           

          I would like to take a moment of your time to give a very special welcome to, and introduce to the rest of you,  Mike Reed.

           

          Mike produces a Monthly Palaver that includes personal notes, comic relief, technical columns and product updates as well as feedback from some of his more than 1,200 regular readers and customers including myself.

           

          'Mike Reed  is a former editor of Tropical Fish Hobbyist magazine. He now writes columns and articles in that and the other top aquarium magazines, and has written many other fish articles in the past. Mike's related background includes a degree in biology, earned when he completed the pre-veterinary-medicine program at Cornell University. He has been a science editor and writer for most of his career, including many years as director of the science and the medical yearbooks at Encyclopaedia Britannica. The aspects of our hobby that interest him most and in which he has done the most study, experimentation, and development are feeding behavior and the capacity of foods to enhance health, color, and activity.'

           

          The 'previous text' was modified from and the "following qoutes" taken from his website:

           

          http://www.mreed.com

           

          Please stop by and sign his guestbook and checkout all the great products he has for your fish.

          Thank you,

           Aaron R. Martin, cmt

          and now more about M. Reed Enterprises in Mike Reed's own words,

           

          "The best products for your fish at the best prices. I started M. Reed Enterprises in 1992 in order to make the foods I feed my own fish (foods I developed over many years) available to the public. Compared to the big catalog companies, M. Reed Enterprises is still tiny. This means our overhead is low and our commitment to pleasing you is very high. This translates into low product and shipping prices that save you considerable amounts of money. You may not know it, but a lot of companies make a few bucks on their "Shipping and Handling" charges. I don't.

          M. Reed Enterprises is your source for highly nutritious, tropical fish food, including some technically advanced, all-natural, color- and behavior-enhancing foods you can get nowhere else. We also supply other aquarium products of the highest quality: From frozen, dry, and live foods to great fish videos, aquarium water supplements, and more. "


           

           

          M. REED ENTERPRISES' MONTHLY PALAVER (#56 - 11/15/03)


          NOTES AND NONSENSE �

          Although we have had a small amount of rain here in the foothills of the Sierra Nevada, the rainy season is coming in slowly. This week, took advantage of the fact that the vegetation is not soaking wet and took my German Shepherd, Bogey, for a couple of long walks through the woods. Not yet 4.5 months old,. Bogey already weighs well over 60 pounds and is very strong. He loved prowling through the thick underbrush while I walked ahead. Then he raced, full tilt, to catch up to me.

           

          As a sufferer from very high cholesterol, I take treadmill, stress tests at least once a year. I just did one on Thursday. No heart problems. And the doc commented that my 6-year record on these tests shows ever increasing stamina, rather than the decrease expected at my age. I was not surprised. Leaving the city to come live here meant leaving a polluted, frantic environment and a passive lifestyle and coming to a healthful and restful environment and far more physically active lifestyle.

           

          We are now shipping our frozen foods via ground service again. This means lower shipping prices for you. Better yet, the prices on our frozen foods will remain unchanged from the past few years. Those who have not recently checked what frozen foods we have might want to take a look. The site is www.mreed.com .  Regarding frozen foods, we have seen a drop-off in orders. I know that we now have more competitions in this area and would like to ask any of you who would feel comfortable doing so to drop me and note at mreed@... telling me if you have switched to another supplier and why.

           

          A friend of mine who is a fine artist has a new website on which he is promoting the sale of some unique Christmas cards that he has designed. For those of you who like to send special cards and who like abstract art, these cards may be just the thing. To see them, just go to www.stackart.com. My personal favorite is the Christmas tree.

          _________________

           

          JOKE OF THE MONTH �

          Here is one for you music lovers, especially those who like the blues

           

          The Blues �
          1. Most Blues begin with: "Woke up this morning..."
          2. "I got a good woman" is a bad way to begin the Blues unless you
          stick something nasty in the next line like "I got a good woman with the
          meanest face in town."
          3. The Blues is simple. After you get the first line right, repeat it. Then
           find something that rhymes, sort of: "Got a good woman with the
           meanest face in town. Yes, I got a good woman with the meanest face in
          town. Got teeth like Margaret Thatcher, and she weigh 500 pound."
          4. The Blues is not about choice. You stuck in a ditch, you stuck in a ditch.
          There ain't no way out.
          5. Blues cars: Chevys, Fords, Cadillacs and broke-down trucks.Blues don't

          travel in Volvos, BMWs, or SUVs. Most Blues transportation is a Greyhound
          bus or a southbound train. Jet aircraft and state-sponsored motor pools ain't

          even in the running. Walkin' plays a major part in the blues lifestyle. So does fixin'

          to die.

          6. Teenagers can't sing the Blues. They ain't fixin' to die yet. Adults sing the Blues.

          In Blues, "adulthood" means being old enough to get the electric chair if you shoot

          a man in Memphis.
          7. Blues can take place in New York City but not in Hawaii or anyplace in
          Canada. Hard times in Minneapolis or Seattle is probably just clinical
          depression. Chicago, St. Louis, and Kansas City are still great places to
          have the Blues. You cannot have the blues anyplace that don't get rain.

          8. A man with male pattern baldness ain't the Blues. A woman with
          male pattern baldness is. Breaking your leg 'cause you were skiing is

          not the blues. Breaking your leg 'cause a alligator be chomping on it is.
          9. You can't have no Blues in a office or a shopping mall. The lighting

          is wrong. Go out to the parking lot or sit by the dumpster.
          10. Good places for the Blues:
          a. Highway
          b. Jailhouse
          c. Empty bed
          d. Bottom of a whiskey glass
          Bad places for the Blues:
          a. Nordstrom's
          b. Gallery openings
          c. Ivy League colleges
          d. Golf courses
          11. No one will believe it's the Blues if you wear a suit, 'less
          you happen to be an old ethnic person, and you slept in it.
          12. Do you have the right to sing the Blues?
          Yes, if:
          a. You older than dirt
          b. You blind
          c. You shot a man in Memphis
          d. You can't be satisfied
          No, if:
          a. You have all your teeth
          b. You were once blind but now can see
          c. The man in Memphis lived
          d. You have a 401K or trust fund
          13. Blues is not a matter of color. It's a matter of bad luck.
          Tiger Woods cannot sing the blues. Sonny Liston could.

          Ugly white people also got a leg up on the blues.
          14. If you ask for water and your darlin' give you gasoline, it's
          the Blues. Other acceptable Blues beverages are:
          a. Cheap wine
          b. Whiskey or bourbon
          c. Muddy water
          d. Nasty black coffee
          The following are NOT Blues beverages:
          a. Perrier
          b. Chardonnay
          c. Snapple
          d. Slim Fast
          15. If death occurs in a cheap motel or a shotgun shack, it's a Blues death.

          Stabbed in the back by a jealous lover is another Blues way to die. So is
          the electric chair, substance abuse and dying lonely on a broken-down cot.
          You can't have a Blues death if you die during a tennis match or while
          getting liposuction.
          16. Some Blues names for women:
          a. Sadie
          b. Big Mama
          c. Bessie
          d. Fat River Dumpling
          17. Some Blues names for men:
          a. Joe
          b. Willie
          c. Little Willie
          d. Big Willie
          18. Persons with names like Amber, Jennifer, Tiffany, Debbie, and
          Heather can't sing the Blues no matter how many men they shoot in Memphis.
          19. Make your own Blues name Starter Kit:
          a. Name of physical infirmity (Blind, Cripple, Lame, etc.)
          b. First name (see above) plus name of fruit (Lemon, Lime, etc..)
          c. Last name of President (Jefferson, Johnson, Fillmore, etc.)
          Examples: Blind Lime Jefferson, Jackleg Lemon Johnson.
          20. No matter how tragic your life, if you own a computer you
          cannot sing the blues.

          _______________________

          SPECIAL OFFERS �

          I am offering you all four videos that I have shot and narrated for the price of three: These videos are 1-Setting Up an Aquarium 2-Breeding Livebearers 3-Breeding Gouramis 4-Raising Livebearers� Fry. You can see and read about them on my site at www.mreed.com . The price there is $15.95 apiece. You can have all four for only $47.85 and $6.00 for shipping in the continental USA. Total, then, is $53.85. To place your order for this special, write me at mreed@... and I will get back to you with the next step, including a safe way to pay by credit card if you like. This offer is good only until December 15 and might be the perfect way to Christmas shop for your favorite aquarists.

          ____________________________________.

          THE COLUMN/ARTICLE �

           

          It amazes me that there never seems to be an end to the number of species of tropical fishes that will be discovered.

           

          NEW TROPICALS IN VENEZUELA 

          Scientists recently discovered 10 new fish species and a previously unknown species of shrimp in a southeastern Venezuela river basin, a U.S. environmental organization announced.

          Conservation International said it hoped the discoveries would ensure preservation of the Caura River Basin, about 300 miles (500 kilometers) southeast of Caracas, the capital. The Washington-based group called on Venezuela's government to designate the 4,500-hectare (11,115-acre) area a wildlife reserve.

          "For its size, it's incredible what the area has. It's a hot spot that should be protected," said Antonio Machado, a Central University of Venezuela zoologist and fish expert who helped direct the research.

          The species were found during an expedition that included 13 local and international scientists and 17 experts from an organization representing Kuyujani Ye'kuana Indians who live in the area.

          Scientists named one fish � a 2-inch-long (5-centimeter-long), green and red, bloodfin tetra � "Aphyocharaz Yekwanae" after the Ye'kuana. 

          Venezuela has all but abandoned a proposed hydroelectric dam at the basin's Para Waterfall. The dam would seriously deplete the Caura River. And if that ever happened, it would be devastating.

          -----------------------------------------------------------------

          Found these next two articles on the internet and thought you might like them: 

          Starting a Saltwater Aquarium
          Starting a saltwater aquarium is really quite simple, if you know what you need to do. That�s where I�m going to help you! This month we�re going to set up a fish only tank with live rock, as that seems to be the most popular way to set up a saltwater aquarium these days.

          First things first, you need to get a tank. I would recommend a tank at least 55 gallons in size: it�s hard to keep your water chemistry stable in a tank smaller than that, and you do have the added advantage of being able to keep more than two fish. So, go to the aquarium store, pick out your tank, glass lids (most tanks come with these today) and light fixtures. You�ll need at least two 24� light fixtures, or one 48� light fixture. I honestly would do more light than that and recommend that you purchase four 24� light fixtures, two 48� light fixtures, or one 48� double bulb fixture. You�ll definitely need a stand since saltwater is quite heavy and weighs approximately 8.9 pounds per gallon, and that�s just the water. Weather or not you purchase a canopy is up to you, some people like them some people hate them. I personally couldn�t care less except in the case of a display tank in a living area or some place where people congregate. Then I�d say get a canopy to! complete the look of the aquarium.

          You�ll want to place your tank and stand in a �good� location. Ideally not too far from a sink or drain of some sort, and close to an outlet. You�ll need at least one surge protector or power strip to plug your lights, filters, heater, skimmer, and pumps into. I would advise placing the tank at least a foot to either side of the outlet, so salt creep becomes less of a factor and you won�t get accidentally electrocuted when you go to clean your plugs. The stand should not be flush with the wall, so it will allow for things that hang on the back of the tank, like some skimmers, some filters, overflow boxes, and other things. It also makes your tank easier to clean if it�s not leaning up against the wall.

          Once you have your tank placed, its time to set up your filtration. For a Fish Only Tank With Live Rock (FOWLR) I suggest using a sump filter or a canister filter with a hang on the back protein skimmer. The sump filter is probably a better choice as you can then put your skimmer and heater in the sump and keep them out of the main display area of the tank. Set up your sump so that your outflow pump cycles your tank a minimum of 4 to 6 times an hour. I prefer more than this, but some fish don�t like the current that a higher flow rate produces. If you�re using a canister filter, make sure that you fill one basket with a nitrate absorbing resin, as canister filters are notorious for becoming �nitrate sinks�. If you�re using a sump, you might consider removing the bioballs from their chamber and adding only a fine grained filter pad instead. This will help keep the filter from holding too much nitrate later on, once the tank is cycled. Once a month if not more you will! need to rinse out the filter pads to keep the particles from impeding the flow of the filter. At this time put your skimmer in place. If you�re using a hang on the back skimmer, like a CPR BakPak 2, you should hang and adjust it to one side of the back of the tank. Don�t hang it in the middle, that makes it hard to get to and you�ll be less likely to do the proper maintenance as needed. If you�re using a skimmer in the sump, you should place it so the water for the tank goes through it before it pumps it back into the main display. We�ll discuss more on skimmers later in the article.

          Now that you have that finished, you can add your substrate and live rock. Substrate should either be a medium grade crushed coral, which is exactly that, coral skeletons that have been crushed up to make a lumpy looking substrate, which doesn�t compact too badly, and is easy to care for, or you can use aragonite, which is a sugar fine sand that helps keep hardness and pH at the ideal level. I recommend using live sand, or at least part live sand and part aragonite as substrate, especially if you�re going to be using live rock. You want at least one pound of sand or coral per gallon of water; usually in the case of sand you want a minimum of 2 inches of substrate in the bottom of the tank. This will allow for the bacteria in the sand to effectively reduce nitrogenous wastes produced by the living things in the aquarium. As for live rock, you want at a bare minimum of half a pound of rock per gallon of water. I prefer one pound per gallon, but in smaller tanks this is not always practical. Some good choices for rock are Fiji, which is nice and purple and porous, and Marshall Islands, which is usually pink or red and is also very porous. Both of these are expensive, but if you can get them, they are wonderful types of rock for the aquarium. Stay away from �base rock� which has no growth of any type on it and is going to be white and look dead. This is not true �live rock�, its rock that has been killed by something (usually bleach) and made to be behind the true live rock and allow for stability. I personally think that the more true live rock you use, the better your filtration is, and that�s what I would recommend.

          Once you have your rock and sand in, you can fill up your aquarium. You should have premixed salt water with a salinity of 1.023. Add the water slowly, turn on your heater and filters, and wait a day or so, then turn on and adjust your skimmer. Your skimmer should produce greenish sludge and white foam with the consistency of egg whites. Clean the cup as needed, but do not allow it to get so full to the point the effluvia runs back into the tank. This can cause your tank conditions to deteriorate rapidly.

          As for lighting, if you purchase cured live rock, you can turn on your lights immediately, but if you purchase uncured rock, which I actually recommend, you won�t need your lights for at least a month. Once the rock has cured, you can turn your lights on. In a Fish Only (FO) tank, you need only two bulbs, one actinic blue and one daylight bulb. I like 10,000k bulbs, as they are very bright but do not have a high red spectrum and thus don�t tend to produce massive algae growth.

          Once your rock is cured and your tank is cycled, your test values should read as follows:

          • Ammonia: 0
          • Nitrite: 0
          • Nitrate: 0-10 ppm (up to 40 ppm is basically harmless to most fish, but the lower the better)
          • Salinity: 1.020 � 1.025

          Once those values are established, you must strive to keep them stable. Your fish will thank you for it.

          I would also advise placing at least three powerheads throughout the tank to circulate water and add gas exchange properties. Place them as you see fit, but at least one must be at the top of the tank, circulating the water and making it move around to facilitate oxygenation of the water.

          Sandy Bottoms
          For some time you may have considered using sand for a substrate, but have stayed away from it due to the myths surrounding sand. Some people believe that sand will cause excessive amounts of nitrates, while others believe it will cause different forms of algae to grow, and then there are others that believe sand is harder to clean than gravel. Well the fact is the first two can occur no matter what substrate you are using, it all depends on your cleaning habits. If you don�t clean your tank regularly nitrates will rise and due to higher nitrates your bound to get different forms of algae.

          There are a couple of drawbacks that you do get with sand, just as there are drawbacks you would get with other substrates.

          1. Anaerobic bacteria grow faster in sandy bottoms.
          2. Sand can get sucked into the intake tube of your filter and damage your impeller.

          You can overcome these drawbacks though. In order to prevent anaerobic bacteria from growing, you need to gently stir the sand when you perform tank maintenance. Stirring the sand will break up any anaerobic pockets (meaning areas that lack oxygen) that may be forming, which is the perfect environment for anaerobic bacteria to grow. You need to make sure that when stirring the sand that you get to the bottom of the tank, and that you do all and not part of the sand. This may have you asking if doing this won�t disturb the beneficial bacteria, the fact is no it will not. Beneficial bacteria are tough little guys and once they attach to the sand it would be impossible to upset them with a little stirring.

          The second drawback is a bit more difficult to overcome, especially if you have a small tank or a tank that isn�t very tall. Most filters come with extension tubes so you can get the intake tube as close to the bottom of the tank as possible, and a lot of people use them. If you are one that uses the extension tube, take it off. The closer to the bottom the intake tube is, the greater the chance it will suck up sand. If your filter didn�t come with an extension tube and it sits fairly low in the tank, then you can take off the intake tube strainer basket and cut some of the intake tube off to raise it. Eventually slime will cover the sand, which will greatly reduce the amount of sand that floats through the water and prevent it from getting into your filter. You can also try covering the strainer basket to the intake tube with things such as sponges that are used in filters, or panty hose.

          You may be wondering if these are the drawbacks, what are the benefits to using sand. Well there is one major benefit when it comes to sand, and that is all waste gets removed when you clean the tank, and in return less waste sitting in your tank will help keep nitrates in check. Waste sits on top of the sand instead of sinking in like it does with gravel, and it�s a simple matter of just vacuuming it up, and you can instantly see when it�s all up. Being able to see all the waste will also help you to determine if you�re feeding your fish too much. If you are feeding them too much then you will be able to cut back immediately, which in turn will help keep the nitrates down since less waste sitting in the bottom and less waste your fish produce equal fewer nitrates.

          Now that you know what is involved in having sand as a substrate you may be ready to make the change. Check around for the different types of sand available, there are several, Black Tahitian Moon and play sand, which can be found at your local home improvement stores, are just a couple. 
           

          __________________________   

           

          NO BS FRY FOOD AND MORE

           

          >> Mike �

           

          You told me that your fry food is good for any fresh-water species and several marines. I cannot say about the marines, but I have used the food, now, for at least 20 different species of fresh-water fishes and all have done extremely well. I find this truly amazing and want to say how much I appreciate your offering such a product. I have not hatched out brine shrimp in several months. And I sure do not miss the extra work.

           

          Diana<<  

           

          >> Dear Mike,

           

          Why don�t you promote your frozen �Miracle� Food more? My discus and angels have done so well with it that I have begun feeding it in my large community that is out of the fish room (in the living room). The color and energy of these fish are now also increasing and even the adults have begun to grow again. Why keep a product that can do so much a secret?

           

          Ron<<

           

          ------------------------------

          Thanks again for subscribing to this little mailing. If you ever want to

          "unsubscribe", e-mail me at  mreed@...  .

           

          Our site is at  www.mreed.com .

           

          I'll talk with you again in a month.

           

          Mike

          -------------------------------------------------------

          Members who want earlier issues of the Palaver can get them by ordering from us at our site at www.mreed.com and noting that they wish to have a past issue. This note should include some guideline as to which issue you want and can be written on the on-line order form where there is space for �Special Instructions or Comments�. This is right under the spot where you fill out your shipping information. I am sorry, but you will have to order something from us to get a back issue: There are now more than 12 hundred of you reading the Palaver, and we cannot service lots of back-issue requests completely free of charge.




          Aaron R. Martin, cmt

          (925) 337-2340

          Livermore CA (San Francisco Bay Area)




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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 54 From: Aaron Martin Date: 11/22/2003
          Subject: A Sunset Fire Twinbar Mickey Mouse Swordtail?

          Hi everybody,

          As I am still new to breeding fish, I was wondering if somebody can clarify cross-breeding for me.

          I have a male Sunset fire and a male Mickey Mouse Platy that have mated w/ Marigold Female Swordtails. If the fry are female how can I determine if they are really Swordtails or Platies? Or are they both at the same time? The male fry are only a week old and still several weeks away from developing the sword part of their tail if they indeed are giong to be swordtails. If the males do not develop the sword does that mean they are Platies?

          I currently have a pair each of Mickey Mouse Swordtails and Sunset Fire Swordtails. As far as I know I'm the only person in my area cross-breeding these Platys and Swordtails. I next want to mix a Twinbar Platy w/ a light colored swordtail. Then I'll try various combinations to attempt the ultimate mix - A Sunset Fire Twinbar Mickey Mouse Swordtail! Maybe by next summer?

          Silver Mollies ~

          The intrest started a few days ago when I was selling some of my fish to my favorite lfs. There was a beautiful Silver male I wanted to breed w/ my 10 marbled females to see what would happen. Unfortunately he went into severe shock before he made it into the bag, so I put him back to recover.

           I just rescued a bunch of fry from a large corporate chain store yesterday and saw a beautiful Silver Lyretail Molly Female and purchased her as well as 3 Red Swordtails, 2F & 1 M.

          I then went to the other large corporate chain store 1 block away (to pick up my last paycheck from july) and they had the same or better quality Silver Lyretail Molly Females at only $0.99. I had paid $2.99 ech at the previous store, so I reluctantly took back the original one.

          Again about mixing breeds ~

          Is it a bad idea, for example, to mix the silver lyretail w/ the marbled mollies? How about the red & marigold swordtails? I am mixing the previously mentioned Platies and Swords to try and create something I've not seen or heard of before. However, w/ the Mollies and swords I'm just mixing colors for different variety out of curiosity.

          Please any feedback will be helpful,

          Thanks again,

          Aaron

          got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!

          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium

          stop by and see ~ membership is free!



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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 55 From: Mike Date: 11/24/2003
          Subject: Bay Area fish clubs
          Hello everyone,
          I am new to this group and while scanning recent posts I found this
          question.
          "Are there any clubs in the Bay Area?"

          Yes, there are several.

          San Francisco Aquarium Society
          http://www.sfaquarium.org/

          Silicon Valley Aquarium Society
          http://www.tactics.com/d/svas/

          Pacific Coast Cichlid Association
          http://www.cichlidworld.com/

          Seabay
          www.seabay.org

          San Francisco Bay Area Aquatic Plant Study
          http://www.sfbaaps.com/

          Bay Area Killifish
          http://www.sfbaka.net/

          Sacramento Aquarium Society
          http://www.sacramentoaquariumsociety.org/

          California Betta Society
          http://www.cbsbettas.org/

          I belong to the first three clubs and really enjoy going to meetings
          and learning from the guest speakers and club members.
          At the moment I have mostly cichlids. I have a South American,
          Central American Tank, and a mixed community tank of both.
          I also have a tank of African Frontosa and Leluepi cichlids, another
          tank with Lake Victoria cichlids with some other African cichlids
          thrown in.
          In a month or two I am going to probably move and at the moment I am
          trying to figure out the logistics of the move. I will bring the
          filters and Media, and as large amount of tank water from each tank
          that I can.
          At the moment I need to know a way of getting the new tank water
          heated fast. I want to get it heated up to at least the temp of the
          water the fish are being transported in, but past experience has
          shown me that it takes all night or day to heat a tank up with the
          heater alone.
          Would adding hot water from the tap be safe if I allowed enough time
          for the filter and air pump to reoxygenate the water?

          Thanks,
          Mike in San Ramon.
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 56 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 11/25/2003
          Subject: Re: Bay Area fish clubs
          Hi Mike,

          Welcome to the group and thanks for joining.

          Sounds like you have several large aquariums. How many & what sizes?

          re: "Would adding hot water from the tap be safe if I allowed enough
          time for the filter and air pump to reoxygenate the water?"

          How far are you moving? I've never moved a Tank myself. If nearby I
          would try moving 1 tank at a time. Float the fish from the 1 tank in
          the other tanks while you transport and setup the first 1. Then after
          the first tank is up and running at the right temp., bring the
          original fish over. That way theres no risk of homeless fish if the
          tank cracks, leaks or equip. malfuntions.
          I would think that adding very hot water will kill all the good
          bacteria. What I've done before during water changes is used a
          cooking thermometer to monitor the tap as I fill up containers. That
          way I was able to keep it same or very close to tank temp. Also it
          might be a good idea to turn up the new places thermostat to the
          desired water temp, that way the house heater can keep the water warm
          during setup. I would even recommend borrowing a heater from each of
          the remaining Tanks so you don't risk burning out the 1 used for the
          new setup. That should heat the water up much faster. I have multiple
          heaters in each tank, its better to have 2 or 3 smaller heaters than
          just 1 big one.

          Thanks for all the great club info. I will put them in the links area
          soon.

          I'm in Livermore and just found out recently that California Betta
          Society hosted the International Betta meeting here in July, so sad I
          missed it, especially in my own town.

          If your moving locally I'd be glad to help out.

          Thanks again,
          Aaron

          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Mike"
          <Deenerz@a...> wrote:
          > Hello everyone,
          > I am new to this group and while scanning recent posts I found this
          > question.
          > "Are there any clubs in the Bay Area?"
          >
          > Yes, there are several.
          >
          > San Francisco Aquarium Society
          > http://www.sfaquarium.org/
          >
          > Silicon Valley Aquarium Society
          > http://www.tactics.com/d/svas/
          >
          > Pacific Coast Cichlid Association
          > http://www.cichlidworld.com/
          >
          > Seabay
          > www.seabay.org
          >
          > San Francisco Bay Area Aquatic Plant Study
          > http://www.sfbaaps.com/
          >
          > Bay Area Killifish
          > http://www.sfbaka.net/
          >
          > Sacramento Aquarium Society
          > http://www.sacramentoaquariumsociety.org/
          >
          > California Betta Society
          > http://www.cbsbettas.org/
          >
          > I belong to the first three clubs and really enjoy going to
          meetings
          > and learning from the guest speakers and club members.
          > At the moment I have mostly cichlids. I have a South American,
          > Central American Tank, and a mixed community tank of both.
          > I also have a tank of African Frontosa and Leluepi cichlids,
          another
          > tank with Lake Victoria cichlids with some other African cichlids
          > thrown in.
          >

          In a month or two I am going to probably move and at the moment I am
          > trying to figure out the logistics of the move. I will bring the
          > filters and Media, and as large amount of tank water from each tank
          > that I can.
          > At the moment I need to know a way of getting the new tank water
          > heated fast. I want to get it heated up to at least the temp of
          the
          > water the fish are being transported in, but past experience has
          > shown me that it takes all night or day to heat a tank up with the
          > heater alone.
          > Would adding hot water from the tap be safe if I allowed enough
          time
          > for the filter and air pump to reoxygenate the water?
          >
          > Thanks,
          > Mike in San Ramon.
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 57 From: sunil kamath Date: 11/25/2003
          Subject: New Member needs clarifications !
          Hi Friends,

          This is sunny from osaka, japan. I just joined this
          group recently and wish and expect to learn and share
          a lot of things here..!

          Starting with learning..

          My angles have laid eggs and the frys ( about 5 days
          old ) are swimming around.

          This was my 55gal planted community tank housing
          angles, gouramis, tetras, neons, loaches, rasboras etc
          etc. Since these guys are eagerly waiting for the
          oppurtunity to feast on the frys, i made a glass
          partition keeping the breeing pair with their fry on
          one side and the others on the other.

          But still some fry squeeze thru the thin gap and get
          eaten up..

          The first day there were about 100 frys but yesterday
          nite it had reduced to around 50 - 60 but today
          morning there are only about 20 - 30 left :(
          No idea how they are disappearing !!

          How do i save them, what are the precautions to be
          taken ??

          on this side i only have a amazon sword plant on which
          they spawned, plus some valisneria's and a small bunch
          of java moss attached to driftwood..

          Do i need to keep the light on the whole nite ?? I
          just keep a bed lamp on..

          Do i need to change the water ??

          I am feeding them frozen BBS, powdered tetramin flakes
          and powdered tetra plankton.

          Do i need to move the frys to a fry net or whats it
          called something that sticks to the wall of the tank
          andhold the frys together ?? It will be a difficult
          task now since the parents are gaurding them.. always

          Guys please help me save the little angles...

          Also how long will it take for them to get the shape
          and colours of their parents...?

          Any help, advise, suggestions and comments will
          highly be appreciated...





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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 58 From: albertolindesign Date: 11/26/2003
          Subject: Hi! and a plea for help!
          Hi everyone! After 4 years of "lusting" (rather odd thing to lust
          after I know) I finaly got my hands on a 30 gallon aquarium that I
          could afford. I subsequently bought all the acesories and required
          stuff, although I was silly and assumed it would be a straitforward
          deal. Boy was I wrong! I think the pet store guy realy did want to
          help me out, but my ignorance realy registered, and now I have a lot
          of realy nifty things....with hose and tubes and ist starting to look
          more like a surgery room than a fish thank!

          If its not too much trouble, please let me know if someone can help
          me with a few tips to set up my new fish tank. Im realy excited about
          it. Its my first....so I want to be humble and listen to the pros!

          -Alberto
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 59 From: sunil kamath Date: 11/26/2003
          Subject: Re: Hi! and a plea for help!
          Check this site out.

          http://www.aquahobby.com/tips.html

          it will give you some useful tips on setting up a
          aquarium..

          if you still need any clarifications pls let us know.

          Good Luck !!

          --- albertolindesign <albertolindesign@...>
          wrote:
          > Hi everyone! After 4 years of "lusting" (rather odd
          > thing to lust
          > after I know) I finaly got my hands on a 30 gallon
          > aquarium that I
          > could afford. I subsequently bought all the
          > acesories and required
          > stuff, although I was silly and assumed it would be
          > a straitforward
          > deal. Boy was I wrong! I think the pet store guy
          > realy did want to
          > help me out, but my ignorance realy registered, and
          > now I have a lot
          > of realy nifty things....with hose and tubes and ist
          > starting to look
          > more like a surgery room than a fish thank!
          >
          > If its not too much trouble, please let me know if
          > someone can help
          > me with a few tips to set up my new fish tank. Im
          > realy excited about
          > it. Its my first....so I want to be humble and
          > listen to the pros!
          >
          > -Alberto
          >
          >


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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 60 From: Tom Reagin Date: 11/26/2003
          Subject: Re: Hi! and a plea for help!
          Another excellent site is: www.thekrib.com
          I would also suggest that you join Uniquaria--a free
          yahoo group at www.uniquaria.com

          Lots of helpful folks with good info.

          I'll be glad to answer questions that you have (if
          within my expertise.)

          TomR
          --- sunil kamath <sunnyvks@...> wrote:
          >
          > Check this site out.
          >
          > http://www.aquahobby.com/tips.html
          >
          > it will give you some useful tips on setting up a
          > aquarium..
          >
          > if you still need any clarifications pls let us
          > know.
          >
          > Good Luck !!
          >
          > --- albertolindesign <albertolindesign@...>
          > wrote:
          > > Hi everyone! After 4 years of "lusting" (rather
          > odd
          > > thing to lust
          > > after I know) I finaly got my hands on a 30 gallon
          > > aquarium that I
          > > could afford. I subsequently bought all the
          > > acesories and required
          > > stuff, although I was silly and assumed it would
          > be
          > > a straitforward
          > > deal. Boy was I wrong! I think the pet store guy
          > > realy did want to
          > > help me out, but my ignorance realy registered,
          > and
          > > now I have a lot
          > > of realy nifty things....with hose and tubes and
          > ist
          > > starting to look
          > > more like a surgery room than a fish thank!
          > >
          > > If its not too much trouble, please let me know if
          > > someone can help
          > > me with a few tips to set up my new fish tank. Im
          > > realy excited about
          > > it. Its my first....so I want to be humble and
          > > listen to the pros!
          > >
          > > -Alberto
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          > __________________________________
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          >
          > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          >
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          >
          >
          >
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          > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >


          =====
          Thomas G. Reagin, O.D.
          104 Church Street
          Decatur, GA 30030

          Voice (404)378-3694
          Fax (404)373-0741

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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 61 From: anthony carey Date: 11/26/2003
          Subject: Re: Hi! and a plea for help!
          ok before you do anythign you need to get your tank setup
          after that you need to add the substrate and ornaments (use fake
          plants for now as real plants need special care)
          then add the water and declorinate it.
          now you need to cycle your tank. if you feel you must absolutly use
          real fish for this use danios about 5 for a 30 gallon (they are
          nearly bulletproof) and you can use bio spira but its not a mirical
          cure you will still have to do water changes and cleaning.

          after your amonia and nitrites drop to zero and your nitrates are
          good. you can add more fish,but only 2 per week because after you add
          another fish your tank will do a micro cycle

          after you get more exsperience and want to try some real plants come
          back and ask and ill teach you about co2 injection units and lighting
          and you dont nessisarily need metal halide like everone says (metal
          halide is mostly for corals in a saltwater aquarium)
          --- In

          FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "albertolindesign"
          <albertolindesign@y...> wrote:
          > Hi everyone! After 4 years of "lusting" (rather odd thing to lust
          > after I know) I finaly got my hands on a 30 gallon aquarium that I
          > could afford. I subsequently bought all the acesories and required
          > stuff, although I was silly and assumed it would be a straitforward
          > deal. Boy was I wrong! I think the pet store guy realy did want to
          > help me out, but my ignorance realy registered, and now I have a
          lot
          > of realy nifty things....with hose and tubes and ist starting to
          look
          > more like a surgery room than a fish thank!
          >
          > If its not too much trouble, please let me know if someone can help
          > me with a few tips to set up my new fish tank. Im realy excited
          about
          > it. Its my first....so I want to be humble and listen to the pros!
          >
          > -Alberto
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 62 From: anthony carey Date: 11/26/2003
          Subject: Re: New Member needs clarifications !
          1. get a cheap 5 gallon tank and move the fry into that tank.
          2. no leaving the light on all night could confuse and stress the
          fish.
          3.ALWAYS do water changes, if you dont the nitrates will build up.
          althought they are not as bad as amonia or nitrites.its still not
          good to let them build up. also water changes are a good way to clean
          the crud out of your tank. if you dont you will form black goo at the
          bottom of the tank and it will go septic.not only will everything die
          it will also make your house stink.
          4. and as for feeding there are specialty foods for fry on the market
          i think your on the right track with the plancton. also if you ever
          get super serious about breeding fish you might invest in a brine
          shrimp hachery baby brine shrimp are good food for fry.

          as for how long it will take for them to be like their parents. i
          cant answere that cause i dont have angle fish but it varies from
          fish to fish.

          good luck though



          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, sunil kamath
          <sunnyvks@y...> wrote:
          > Hi Friends,
          >
          > This is sunny from osaka, japan. I just joined this
          > group recently and wish and expect to learn and share
          > a lot of things here..!
          >
          > Starting with learning..
          >
          > My angles have laid eggs and the frys ( about 5 days
          > old ) are swimming around.
          >
          > This was my 55gal planted community tank housing
          > angles, gouramis, tetras, neons, loaches, rasboras etc
          > etc. Since these guys are eagerly waiting for the
          > oppurtunity to feast on the frys, i made a glass
          > partition keeping the breeing pair with their fry on
          > one side and the others on the other.
          >
          > But still some fry squeeze thru the thin gap and get
          > eaten up..
          >
          > The first day there were about 100 frys but yesterday
          > nite it had reduced to around 50 - 60 but today
          > morning there are only about 20 - 30 left :(
          > No idea how they are disappearing !!
          >
          > How do i save them, what are the precautions to be
          > taken ??
          >
          > on this side i only have a amazon sword plant on which
          > they spawned, plus some valisneria's and a small bunch
          > of java moss attached to driftwood..
          >
          > Do i need to keep the light on the whole nite ?? I
          > just keep a bed lamp on..
          >
          > Do i need to change the water ??
          >
          > I am feeding them frozen BBS, powdered tetramin flakes
          > and powdered tetra plankton.
          >
          > Do i need to move the frys to a fry net or whats it
          > called something that sticks to the wall of the tank
          > andhold the frys together ?? It will be a difficult
          > task now since the parents are gaurding them.. always
          >
          > Guys please help me save the little angles...
          >
          > Also how long will it take for them to get the shape
          > and colours of their parents...?
          >
          > Any help, advise, suggestions and comments will
          > highly be appreciated...
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > __________________________________
          > Do you Yahoo!?
          > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
          > http://companion.yahoo.com/
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 63 From: Alberto Bertolin Date: 11/27/2003
          Subject: You are all wonderfull! Thank you!
          Thank you for the responses everyone! Wow, this seems
          like a lovely community. Before I ask too many
          questions, Im going to use all the links everyone sent
          me and realy read up.

          Now I must ask a question about something several of
          you guys mentioned, about the Danios. Now, not to
          sound squemish, but if I use one or two danios to
          start the tank, other than flushing him away
          (unthinkable!) how can I get rid of him? Im realy not
          into sacrificing a few fish just to cycle the tank,
          and my ultimate goal is to raise some puffers. Are
          Danios also at a ph of 7ish? Do they like brakish
          water?

          On puffers, someone commented that they can grow HUGE,
          but all reference material that I have read says that
          the figure 8 puffer grows to a max of 6 inches.
          Forgive my ignorance, but is this considered HUGE?

          Thanks again everyone, more on this as I set up the
          tank.

          -Alberto

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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 64 From: Heather Date: 11/27/2003
          Subject: Re: You are all wonderfull! Thank you!
          Hi! Danios are extremely hardy and can tolerate a
          wide range of ph and water conditions. If you don't
          mind having them in your tank, definitely don't flush
          them. I don't know a whole lot about puffers and/or
          their sizes. Sorry!

          Heather


          --- Alberto Bertolin <albertolindesign@...>
          wrote:
          > Thank you for the responses everyone! Wow, this
          > seems
          > like a lovely community. Before I ask too many
          > questions, Im going to use all the links everyone
          > sent
          > me and realy read up.
          >
          > Now I must ask a question about something several of
          > you guys mentioned, about the Danios. Now, not to
          > sound squemish, but if I use one or two danios to
          > start the tank, other than flushing him away
          > (unthinkable!) how can I get rid of him? Im realy
          > not
          > into sacrificing a few fish just to cycle the tank,
          > and my ultimate goal is to raise some puffers. Are
          > Danios also at a ph of 7ish? Do they like brakish
          > water?
          >
          > On puffers, someone commented that they can grow
          > HUGE,
          > but all reference material that I have read says
          > that
          > the figure 8 puffer grows to a max of 6 inches.
          > Forgive my ignorance, but is this considered HUGE?
          >
          > Thanks again everyone, more on this as I set up the
          > tank.
          >
          > -Alberto
          >
          > __________________________________
          > Do you Yahoo!?
          > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
          > http://companion.yahoo.com/
          >


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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 65 From: ~Kelly~ Date: 11/28/2003
          Subject: Hi there, I am new!!
          Hi there,
           
           I am new here as of yesterday.  My name is Kelly and I am 39 yrs old and reside in Upstate NY with my husband and 2 teenagers.
           
          2 years ago we put a pond in our backyard which started our love and fascination for fish and aquariums. ( WOW is it ever addicting. and to think that I was against the pond. LOL But anyways).
           
          We now have MANY tanks inside with freshwater fish, but my passion has turned into a hobby as well as an addiction.  I am just in love with the live bearers, but am having trouble with a couple of things, and was hoping that somebody here could help me out.
           
          The very first fish that I had and fell in love with were my dalmation mollies... Of course being new to fish I had NO idea how rapidly they would have have fry , So I bought a new tank... ( 30high) decorated it with black rocks, white and black plants with a splash of red and it is GORGEOUS with the Dalmation Mollies swimming in it...    I just recently decided to add a couple of black and a couple of platinum mollies to my  black and white tank, and it really is a gorgeous tank.. HOWEVER ... I can tell when my dalmation mollies are getting close to delivering their fry, but have NO idea how to tell when my recently plump platinum mollies are getting close. They just don't seem to bulge in the same manner and I want to get them into the breeding net on time, but not to early!!   Is there a secret to this or is it all guess work?
           
          My other problem is with my female swordtails.. We bought 2 VERY pregnant mommy's about a week ago and the owner told me to put them in the breeding net as soon as we got them home. So I did.  2 days later the 1st one delivered a huge sack of dead fry and then she died within minutes after she passed the fry.  Now yesterday the second swordtail passed one dead fry and then she started acting funny and died.. Is there a secret to breeding Swordtails??
           
          Our water levels are all normal as we took a sample in to have it checked this morning.. The owner was not around due to the holiday, and the "help" had no idea.  They did offer to replace them as they have a 7 day guarentee on their fish as long as the water checks out OK, which ours did, but before I get 2 more female swordtails I would like a little bit of information, as it kills me to get them and then watch them die!!
           
          Any information that anyone has would be really really appreciated. Sorry this is so long, but it is my first post and I am trying to get it all in at once as to not bother you all over and over.
           
          Thank you so much,
            Kelly
           
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 66 From: Tom Reagin Date: 11/28/2003
          Subject: Re: Hi there, I am new!!
          Kelly

          Moving fish to a new tank is stressful. I suspect
          that delivering fry is also stressful. I prefer to
          purchase female that are not too close to term. I
          also get 1/2 to 1/3 as many males. I haven't kept
          swordtails for over thirty years, but that is my
          recomendation for Platys, guppies, Endler's, etc.

          (I'd love to have some swordtails again, but I only
          have 13 tanks.)

          Yours

          TomR

          >
          > My other problem is with my female swordtails.. We
          > bought 2 VERY pregnant
          > mommy's about a week ago and the owner told me to
          > put them in the breeding
          > net as soon as we got them home. So I did. 2 days
          > later the 1st one
          > delivered a huge sack of dead fry and then she died
          > within minutes after she
          > passed the fry. Now yesterday the second swordtail
          > passed one dead fry and
          > then she started acting funny and died.. Is there a
          > secret to breeding
          > Swordtails??
          >
          >

          =====
          Thomas G. Reagin, O.D.
          104 Church Street
          Decatur, GA 30030

          Voice (404)378-3694
          Fax (404)373-0741

          __________________________________
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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 67 From: ~Kelly~ Date: 11/28/2003
          Subject: Re: Tom
           Tom,
           
          Thank you so much for replying. I guess since our water is OK, I will take them up on their offer to replace my swordtails and try again...... It does make sense that the stress from the move could have done it.
           
          You mentioned Platy's... I have ONE platy that has looked like she was going to bust for 2-3 weeks now.  I have seperated her a few times now, but then I second guess myself as to whether she is pregnant or not and put her back...... But each time we go to the pet store and look at the Platy's there NONE of them are pudgie like my female...... What can you tell me about Platy's that might explain this???   Aren't they only pregnant for roughly 30 days??   Isn't that roughly how long inbetween bunches of Fry with Live bearers??
           
          Thanks so much for replying.. I really appreciate it... Nobody else has answered and I am just at a loss here....
           
          Kelly
           
          -------Original Message-------
           
          Date: 11/28/2003 12:52:04 PM
          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Hi there, I am new!!
           
          Kelly

          Moving fish to a new tank is stressful.  I suspect
          that delivering fry is also stressful.  I prefer to
          purchase female that are not too close to term.  I
          also get 1/2 to 1/3 as many males.  I haven't kept
          swordtails for over thirty years, but that is my
          recomendation for Platys, guppies, Endler's, etc.

          (I'd love to have some swordtails again, but I only
          have 13 tanks.)

          Yours

          TomR

          >
          > My other problem is with my female swordtails.. We
          > bought 2 VERY pregnant
          > mommy's about a week ago and the owner told me to
          > put them in the breeding
          > net as soon as we got them home. So I did.  2 days
          > later the 1st one
          > delivered a huge sack of dead fry and then she died
          > within minutes after she
          > passed the fry.  Now yesterday the second swordtail
          > passed one dead fry and
          > then she started acting funny and died.. Is there a
          > secret to breeding
          > Swordtails??
          >
          >

          =====
          Thomas G. Reagin, O.D.
          104 Church Street
          Decatur, GA   30030

          Voice (404)378-3694
          Fax (404)373-0741

          __________________________________
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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 68 From: PRABHU G P L Date: 11/28/2003
          Subject: Re: New Member needs clarifications !
          HI Sunil,
           
          I am Prabhu , sending the message to you.  I hail from GURPUR (Mangalore Taluk) and acquarist for the last thirty years with many breaks in between.
           
          I was working as AGM in Canara Bank here and tokk Voluntary Retirement in 2001.  Since then I started my old hobby and maintaining a takn size 48x24x30 glass tank with living plants.
           
           
          Though I could many species here in Bangalore butKUHLI loaches which are my pet fish, are not availble
          .  So also some rare varities like sparkling Gouramy, Rummy Nose tetra and so on.
           
           
          Can you help me in sending these fishes by shipment or any of your friends in India can help me in this regard.
           
          Please write to me with your personal e-mail sothat I can write to you my experience ias a Acquariest.  I was breeding almost all the live beares and afew egg layers like Gold, Angels, Bettas etc.   I shaal revert to you on hearing from.
           
           
          with regards
           
          GPLPrabhu--- Original Message -----
          Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 11:26 AM
          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] New Member needs clarifications !

          Hi Friends,

          This is sunny from osaka, japan. I just joined this
          group recently and wish and expect to learn and share
          a lot of things here..!

          Starting with learning..

          My angles have laid eggs and the frys ( about 5 days
          old ) are swimming around.

          This was my 55gal planted community tank housing
          angles, gouramis, tetras, neons, loaches, rasboras etc
          etc. Since these guys are eagerly waiting for the
          oppurtunity to feast on the frys, i made a glass
          partition keeping the breeing pair with their fry on
          one side and the others on the other.

          But still some fry squeeze thru the thin gap and get
          eaten up..

          The first day there were about 100 frys but yesterday
          nite it had reduced to around 50 - 60 but today
          morning there are only about 20 - 30 left :(
          No idea how they are disappearing !!

          How do i save them, what are the precautions to be
          taken ??

          on this side i only have a amazon sword plant on which
          they spawned, plus some valisneria's and a small bunch
          of java moss attached to driftwood..

          Do i need to keep the light on the whole nite ?? I
          just keep a bed lamp on..

          Do i need to change the water ??

          I am feeding them frozen BBS, powdered tetramin flakes
          and powdered tetra plankton.

          Do i need to move the frys to a fry net or whats it
          called something that sticks to the wall of the tank
          andhold the frys together ?? It will be a difficult
          task now since the parents are gaurding them.. always

          Guys please help me save the little angles...

          Also how long will it take for them to get the shape
          and colours of their parents...?

          Any help, advise, suggestions and comments  will
          highly be appreciated...





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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 69 From: goodlipk Date: 11/29/2003
          Subject: Ammonia reducing agent­
          Any suggestions for a product that reduces ammonia from fresh water
          tanks. I've just added 2 Bloody Parrots and 2 Clown Loaches into a
          new tank today(Saturday), after having a water test which resulted
          pretty good. I'm planning to add some more next monday and I think
          that ammonia levels might be a little too high for the new fish(being
          the 3rd day from the break-in cycle). The tank is 3x1x1½ ft and there
          are two power filters and an air pump. PH is around 6.7.

          -Keith

          _____________________
          |Celebrating Diversity|
          `---------------------'
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 70 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 11/29/2003
          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Ammonia reducing agent­
          What is "pretty good"? I wouldn't add anything else until you make sure
          the ammonia and nitrites are 0.

          To help the fish that are in there now, you can add something like
          Kent's Ammonia Detox.

          - Trevor

          goodlipk wrote:
          > Any suggestions for a product that reduces ammonia from fresh water
          > tanks. I've just added 2 Bloody Parrots and 2 Clown Loaches into a
          > new tank today(Saturday), after having a water test which resulted
          > pretty good. I'm planning to add some more next monday and I think
          > that ammonia levels might be a little too high for the new fish(being
          > the 3rd day from the break-in cycle). The tank is 3x1x1½ ft and there
          > are two power filters and an air pump. PH is around 6.7.
          >
          > -Keith
          >
          >
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 71 From: amalthea23 Date: 11/29/2003
          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Ammonia reducing agent­
          i found amquel + to be amazing, it doesn't just neutralize ammonia, but
          it gets rid of it, as well as nitrates and nitrites. it's a little
          expensive, but totally worth it.
          amalthea
          On Saturday, November 29, 2003, at 07:11 PM, goodlipk wrote:

          > Any suggestions for a product that reduces ammonia from fresh water
          > tanks. I've just added 2 Bloody Parrots and 2 Clown Loaches into a
          > new tank today(Saturday), after having a water test which resulted
          > pretty good. I'm planning to add some more next monday and I think
          > that ammonia levels might be a little too high for the new fish(being
          > the 3rd day from the break-in cycle). The tank is 3x1x1½ ft and there
          > are two power filters and an air pump. PH is around 6.7.
          >
          > -Keith
          >
          > _____________________
          > |Celebrating Diversity|
          > `---------------------'
          >
          >
          >
          <image.tiff>
          >
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
          http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
          for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
          religion....
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 72 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 11/30/2003
          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Ammonia reducing agent­
          If it really does actually get rid of ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates,
          then it would probably interrupt the cycling of his tank (which I
          understand he was still going through), wouldn't it?

          - Trevor

          amalthea23 wrote:
          > i found amquel + to be amazing, it doesn't just neutralize ammonia, but
          > it gets rid of it, as well as nitrates and nitrites. it's a little
          > expensive, but totally worth it.
          > amalthea
          > On Saturday, November 29, 2003, at 07:11 PM, goodlipk wrote:
          >
          > Any suggestions for a product that reduces ammonia from fresh water
          > tanks. I've just added 2 Bloody Parrots and 2 Clown Loaches into a
          > new tank today(Saturday), after having a water test which resulted
          > pretty good. I'm planning to add some more next monday and I think
          > that ammonia levels might be a little too high for the new fish(being
          > the 3rd day from the break-in cycle). The tank is 3x1x1½ ft and there
          > are two power filters and an air pump. PH is around 6.7.
          >
          > -Keith
          >
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 73 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 11/30/2003
          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Ammonia reducing agent­
          Where did you get the information on Amquel+? It sounded too good to be
          true (actually getting rid of ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates), so I
          looked it up. It's only advertised to "eliminate deadly chlorine or
          chloramines and detoxify harmful ammonia...[and] stabilize the
          pH/Alkalinity". It sounds pretty much like Kent's Ammonia Detox,
          AmmoLock, and other similar products. So, it sould be safe to help keep
          the fish alive while the aquarium is cycling.

          Another product you can try is Biozyme, which is supposed to help get
          the bacteria going. I've tried it a few times, and I'm still not sure if
          it really speeds things up or not, but it shouldn't hurt. :)

          - Trevor

          amalthea23 wrote:

          > i found amquel + to be amazing, it doesn't just neutralize ammonia, but
          > it gets rid of it, as well as nitrates and nitrites. it's a little
          > expensive, but totally worth it.
          > amalthea
          > On Saturday, November 29, 2003, at 07:11 PM, goodlipk wrote:
          >
          > Any suggestions for a product that reduces ammonia from fresh water
          > tanks. I've just added 2 Bloody Parrots and 2 Clown Loaches into a
          > new tank today(Saturday), after having a water test which resulted
          > pretty good. I'm planning to add some more next monday and I think
          > that ammonia levels might be a little too high for the new fish(being
          > the 3rd day from the break-in cycle). The tank is 3x1x1½ ft and there
          > are two power filters and an air pump. PH is around 6.7.
          >
          > -Keith
          >
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 74 From: amalthea23 Date: 11/30/2003
          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Ammonia reducing agent­
          no, it doesn't reduce it to zero, it just lowers the amount. it's
          basically made to reduce "new tank syndrome" and help when the tank is
          overloaded due to a disruption in the cycle from too many fish or
          medication. i just used it last week because some medication had
          disrupted my biological filter and it worked fantastically.
          amalthea
          On Sunday, November 30, 2003, at 11:18 AM, Trevor Holyoak wrote:

          > If it really does actually get rid of ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates,
          > then it would probably interrupt the cycling of his tank (which I
          > understand he was still going through), wouldn't it?
          >
          > - Trevor
          >
          > amalthea23 wrote:
          > > i found amquel + to be amazing, it doesn't just neutralize ammonia,
          > but
          > > it gets rid of it, as well as nitrates and nitrites. it's a little
          > > expensive, but totally worth it.
          > > amalthea
          > > On Saturday, November 29, 2003, at 07:11 PM, goodlipk wrote:
          > >
          > >     Any suggestions for a product that reduces ammonia from fresh
          > water
          > >     tanks. I've just added 2 Bloody Parrots and 2 Clown Loaches into
          > a
          > >     new tank today(Saturday), after having a water test which
          > resulted
          > >     pretty good. I'm planning to add some more next monday and I
          > think
          > >     that ammonia levels might be a little too high for the new
          > fish(being
          > >     the 3rd day from the break-in cycle). The tank is 3x1x1½ ft and
          > there
          > >     are two power filters and an air pump. PH is around 6.7.
          > >
          > >     -Keith
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          <image.tiff>
          >
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


          http://www.puppetterrors.com
          don't be afraid to scream...
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 75 From: amalthea23 Date: 11/30/2003
          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Ammonia reducing agent­
          it says right on the bottle and in the inserts what it does, but to see
          that it works, you just have to test the water. within about 5-10
          minutes, all the levels in the tank drop, so it's the kind of thing
          that leaves you with evidence that it's worked.
          amalthea
          On Sunday, November 30, 2003, at 11:26 AM, Trevor Holyoak wrote:

          > Where did you get the information on Amquel+? It sounded too good to be
          > true (actually getting rid of ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates), so I
          > looked it up. It's only advertised to "eliminate deadly chlorine or
          > chloramines and detoxify harmful ammonia...[and] stabilize the
          > pH/Alkalinity". It sounds pretty much like Kent's Ammonia Detox,
          > AmmoLock, and other similar products. So, it sould be safe to help keep
          > the fish alive while the aquarium is cycling.
          >
          > Another product you can try is Biozyme, which is supposed to help get
          > the bacteria going. I've tried it a few times, and I'm still not sure
          > if
          > it really speeds things up or not, but it shouldn't hurt. :)
          >
          > - Trevor
          >
          > amalthea23 wrote:
          >
          > > i found amquel + to be amazing, it doesn't just neutralize ammonia,
          > but
          > > it gets rid of it, as well as nitrates and nitrites. it's a little
          > > expensive, but totally worth it.
          > > amalthea
          > > On Saturday, November 29, 2003, at 07:11 PM, goodlipk wrote:
          > >
          > >     Any suggestions for a product that reduces ammonia from fresh
          > water
          > >     tanks. I've just added 2 Bloody Parrots and 2 Clown Loaches into
          > a
          > >     new tank today(Saturday), after having a water test which
          > resulted
          > >     pretty good. I'm planning to add some more next monday and I
          > think
          > >     that ammonia levels might be a little too high for the new
          > fish(being
          > >     the 3rd day from the break-in cycle). The tank is 3x1x1½ ft and
          > there
          > >     are two power filters and an air pump. PH is around 6.7.
          > >
          > >     -Keith
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          <image.tiff>
          >
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


          http://www.puppetterrors.com
          don't be afraid to scream...
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 76 From: Dom Date: 11/30/2003
          Subject: Re: Tom
          Hi Kelly,

          Hope this URL can answer your questions.

          http://www.freshwatertropicalfishkeeping.com/Vistor's_Questions/pregna
          nt_platy.htm

          There are few reasons caused your female platy "hold" the delivery of
          babies/fries. As you said you seperated the female a few times. This
          might caused her stressful.

          What I did normally was to seperate a pair of platy to a quarantine
          tank without any disturb, till the female deliver the babies/fries.

          the live bearer of babies/fries might disappear between 2-3 days. You
          can start feeding them with brineshrimp or liquir fry.

          I am doing the same with my swordtail pairs.

          Regards,
          Dom

          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "~Kelly~"
          <dreamz64@r...> wrote:
          > Tom,
          >
          > Thank you so much for replying. I guess since our water is OK, I
          will take
          > them up on their offer to replace my swordtails and try again......
          It does
          > make sense that the stress from the move could have done it.
          >
          > You mentioned Platy's... I have ONE platy that has looked like she
          was going
          > to bust for 2-3 weeks now. I have seperated her a few times now,
          but then I
          > second guess myself as to whether she is pregnant or not and put
          her back...
          > .. But each time we go to the pet store and look at the Platy's
          there NONE
          > of them are pudgie like my female...... What can you tell me about
          Platy's
          > that might explain this??? Aren't they only pregnant for roughly
          30 days??
          > Isn't that roughly how long inbetween bunches of Fry with Live
          bearers??
          >
          > Thanks so much for replying.. I really appreciate it... Nobody else
          has
          > answered and I am just at a loss here....
          >
          > Kelly
          >
          > -------Original Message-------
          >
          > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
          > Date: 11/28/2003 12:52:04 PM
          > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Hi there, I am new!!
          >
          > Kelly
          >
          > Moving fish to a new tank is stressful. I suspect
          > that delivering fry is also stressful. I prefer to
          > purchase female that are not too close to term. I
          > also get 1/2 to 1/3 as many males. I haven't kept
          > swordtails for over thirty years, but that is my
          > recomendation for Platys, guppies, Endler's, etc.
          >
          > (I'd love to have some swordtails again, but I only
          > have 13 tanks.)
          >
          > Yours
          >
          > TomR
          >
          > >
          > > My other problem is with my female swordtails.. We
          > > bought 2 VERY pregnant
          > > mommy's about a week ago and the owner told me to
          > > put them in the breeding
          > > net as soon as we got them home. So I did. 2 days
          > > later the 1st one
          > > delivered a huge sack of dead fry and then she died
          > > within minutes after she
          > > passed the fry. Now yesterday the second swordtail
          > > passed one dead fry and
          > > then she started acting funny and died.. Is there a
          > > secret to breeding
          > > Swordtails??
          > >
          > >
          >
          > =====
          > Thomas G. Reagin, O.D.
          > 104 Church Street
          > Decatur, GA 30030
          >
          > Voice (404)378-3694
          > Fax (404)373-0741
          >
          > __________________________________
          > Do you Yahoo!?
          > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
          > http://companion.yahoo.com/
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          > ADVERTISEMENT
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 77 From: CHRIS Date: 11/30/2003
          Subject: Re: Tom
          I have had great success in getting the female to give birth. Once I
          see that she is acting a bit strange (staying at the top of the water,
          hiding in the plants etc), I raise the temperture of the water about 5
          - 10 degrees, and this seems to put the fish in a state of "ready to
          give birth". Be sure to lower the temperture of the heater back down
          after a couple of hours after she gives birth. Depending on the size
          of your tank will depend on how long it takes to heat it up the extra
          degrees.
          This has work successfully in all my live bearing fish.
          Hope this help

          Chris
          On Nov 30, 2003, at 8:37 PM, Dom wrote:

          > Hi Kelly,
          >
          > Hope this URL can answer your questions.
          >
          > http://www.freshwatertropicalfishkeeping.com/Vistor's_Questions/pregna
          > nt_platy.htm
          >
          > There are few reasons caused your female platy "hold" the delivery of
          > babies/fries. As you said you seperated the female a few times. This
          > might caused her stressful.
          >
          > What I did normally was to seperate a pair of platy to a quarantine
          > tank without any disturb, till the female deliver the babies/fries.
          >
          > the live bearer of babies/fries might disappear between 2-3 days. You
          > can start feeding them with brineshrimp or liquir fry.
          >
          > I am doing the same with my swordtail pairs.
          >
          > Regards,
          > Dom
          >
          > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "~Kelly~"
          > <dreamz64@r...> wrote:
          > >  Tom,
          > >
          > > Thank you so much for replying. I guess since our water is OK, I
          > will take
          > > them up on their offer to replace my swordtails and try again......
          > It does
          > > make sense that the stress from the move could have done it.
          > >
          > > You mentioned Platy's... I have ONE platy that has looked like she
          > was going
          > > to bust for 2-3 weeks now.  I have seperated her a few times now,
          > but then I
          > > second guess myself as to whether she is pregnant or not and put
          > her back...
          > > .. But each time we go to the pet store and look at the Platy's
          > there NONE
          > > of them are pudgie like my female...... What can you tell me about
          > Platy's
          > > that might explain this???   Aren't they only pregnant for roughly
          > 30 days??
          > >   Isn't that roughly how long inbetween bunches of Fry with Live
          > bearers??
          > >
          > > Thanks so much for replying.. I really appreciate it... Nobody else
          > has
          > > answered and I am just at a loss here....
          > >
          > > Kelly
          > > 
          > > -------Original Message-------
          > > 
          > > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
          > > Date: 11/28/2003 12:52:04 PM
          > > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
          > > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Hi there, I am new!!
          > > 
          > > Kelly
          > >
          > > Moving fish to a new tank is stressful.  I suspect
          > > that delivering fry is also stressful.  I prefer to
          > > purchase female that are not too close to term.  I
          > > also get 1/2 to 1/3 as many males.  I haven't kept
          > > swordtails for over thirty years, but that is my
          > > recomendation for Platys, guppies, Endler's, etc.
          > >
          > > (I'd love to have some swordtails again, but I only
          > > have 13 tanks.)
          > >
          > > Yours
          > >
          > > TomR
          > >
          > > >
          > > > My other problem is with my female swordtails.. We
          > > > bought 2 VERY pregnant
          > > > mommy's about a week ago and the owner told me to
          > > > put them in the breeding
          > > > net as soon as we got them home. So I did.  2 days
          > > > later the 1st one
          > > > delivered a huge sack of dead fry and then she died
          > > > within minutes after she
          > > > passed the fry.  Now yesterday the second swordtail
          > > > passed one dead fry and
          > > > then she started acting funny and died.. Is there a
          > > > secret to breeding
          > > > Swordtails??
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > =====
          > > Thomas G. Reagin, O.D.
          > > 104 Church Street
          > > Decatur, GA   30030
          > >
          > > Voice (404)378-3694
          > > Fax (404)373-0741
          > >
          > > __________________________________
          > > Do you Yahoo!?
          > > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
          > >http://companion.yahoo.com/
          > >
          > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          > > ADVERTISEMENT
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          >
          > ADVERTISEMENT
          > <image.tiff>
          > <image.tiff>
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
          >
          Chris

          HAVE A GREAT DAY

          imacian@...
          THE PROUD OWNER OF A IMAC
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 78 From: Dom Date: 11/30/2003
          Subject: Re: New Member needs clarifications !
          Hi Sunny,

          May I know how's your filtering system? The fries of your angel
          disappear due to sucking by the filter.

          It is hard to get the fries survive in the community tank. Unless you
          quarantine the breeding pair to another tank earlier.

          I was quarantined the breeding pair of angel in a 30gallon tank with
          some driftwood and internal filter with burble. (Can't use the power
          head filter. The fries might died due to the heavy water flow and
          suck by the filter)

          After the breeding pair mating. (They might took 1 day to complete
          the mating) I left the eggs alone in the quaratine tank, and took out
          the breeding pair back to the previous community tank.

          The quarantine tank must running with air burble. And on the light on
          day time only. Remember get a heater and set to 28-30 degree celcious.

          I believe the fries in quarantine tank survive rate wil be higher.

          Regards,
          Dom

          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, sunil kamath
          <sunnyvks@y...> wrote:
          > Hi Friends,
          >
          > This is sunny from osaka, japan. I just joined this
          > group recently and wish and expect to learn and share
          > a lot of things here..!
          >
          > Starting with learning..
          >
          > My angles have laid eggs and the frys ( about 5 days
          > old ) are swimming around.
          >
          > This was my 55gal planted community tank housing
          > angles, gouramis, tetras, neons, loaches, rasboras etc
          > etc. Since these guys are eagerly waiting for the
          > oppurtunity to feast on the frys, i made a glass
          > partition keeping the breeing pair with their fry on
          > one side and the others on the other.
          >
          > But still some fry squeeze thru the thin gap and get
          > eaten up..
          >
          > The first day there were about 100 frys but yesterday
          > nite it had reduced to around 50 - 60 but today
          > morning there are only about 20 - 30 left :(
          > No idea how they are disappearing !!
          >
          > How do i save them, what are the precautions to be
          > taken ??
          >
          > on this side i only have a amazon sword plant on which
          > they spawned, plus some valisneria's and a small bunch
          > of java moss attached to driftwood..
          >
          > Do i need to keep the light on the whole nite ?? I
          > just keep a bed lamp on..
          >
          > Do i need to change the water ??
          >
          > I am feeding them frozen BBS, powdered tetramin flakes
          > and powdered tetra plankton.
          >
          > Do i need to move the frys to a fry net or whats it
          > called something that sticks to the wall of the tank
          > andhold the frys together ?? It will be a difficult
          > task now since the parents are gaurding them.. always
          >
          > Guys please help me save the little angles...
          >
          > Also how long will it take for them to get the shape
          > and colours of their parents...?
          >
          > Any help, advise, suggestions and comments will
          > highly be appreciated...
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > __________________________________
          > Do you Yahoo!?
          > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
          > http://companion.yahoo.com/
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 79 From: sunil kamath Date: 11/30/2003
          Subject: Re: New Member needs clarifications !
          Hi Dom,

          Its a Ehiem 2215. And i have covered the suction hose
          with mesh, so that the frys dont go near it.

          But i dont know what happened none of them
          survived..:(

          But next time when they spawn i am planning tomove the
          eggs to a different tank.

          Since they laid the egg on a Amazon Sword plan leaf,
          how do i move it to the other tank ?

          Do i cut the leaf or do i remove the entire plant ??

          The quarntine tank i wont keep any wood or substrate
          since i need to clean it is what was suggested to
          me...

          There i plan to use Sponge filter.. since its a mall
          4gal quarantine tank...

          Any suggestions ??


          --- Dom <itssg@...> wrote:
          > Hi Sunny,
          >
          > May I know how's your filtering system? The fries of
          > your angel
          > disappear due to sucking by the filter.
          >
          > It is hard to get the fries survive in the community
          > tank. Unless you
          > quarantine the breeding pair to another tank
          > earlier.
          >
          > I was quarantined the breeding pair of angel in a
          > 30gallon tank with
          > some driftwood and internal filter with burble.
          > (Can't use the power
          > head filter. The fries might died due to the heavy
          > water flow and
          > suck by the filter)
          >
          > After the breeding pair mating. (They might took 1
          > day to complete
          > the mating) I left the eggs alone in the quaratine
          > tank, and took out
          > the breeding pair back to the previous community
          > tank.
          >
          > The quarantine tank must running with air burble.
          > And on the light on
          > day time only. Remember get a heater and set to
          > 28-30 degree celcious.
          >
          > I believe the fries in quarantine tank survive rate
          > wil be higher.
          >
          > Regards,
          > Dom
          >
          > --- In
          > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
          > sunil kamath
          > <sunnyvks@y...> wrote:
          > > Hi Friends,
          > >
          > > This is sunny from osaka, japan. I just joined
          > this
          > > group recently and wish and expect to learn and
          > share
          > > a lot of things here..!
          > >
          > > Starting with learning..
          > >
          > > My angles have laid eggs and the frys ( about 5
          > days
          > > old ) are swimming around.
          > >
          > > This was my 55gal planted community tank housing
          > > angles, gouramis, tetras, neons, loaches, rasboras
          > etc
          > > etc. Since these guys are eagerly waiting for the
          > > oppurtunity to feast on the frys, i made a glass
          > > partition keeping the breeing pair with their fry
          > on
          > > one side and the others on the other.
          > >
          > > But still some fry squeeze thru the thin gap and
          > get
          > > eaten up..
          > >
          > > The first day there were about 100 frys but
          > yesterday
          > > nite it had reduced to around 50 - 60 but today
          > > morning there are only about 20 - 30 left :(
          > > No idea how they are disappearing !!
          > >
          > > How do i save them, what are the precautions to be
          > > taken ??
          > >
          > > on this side i only have a amazon sword plant on
          > which
          > > they spawned, plus some valisneria's and a small
          > bunch
          > > of java moss attached to driftwood..
          > >
          > > Do i need to keep the light on the whole nite ?? I
          > > just keep a bed lamp on..
          > >
          > > Do i need to change the water ??
          > >
          > > I am feeding them frozen BBS, powdered tetramin
          > flakes
          > > and powdered tetra plankton.
          > >
          > > Do i need to move the frys to a fry net or whats
          > it
          > > called something that sticks to the wall of the
          > tank
          > > andhold the frys together ?? It will be a
          > difficult
          > > task now since the parents are gaurding them..
          > always
          > >
          > > Guys please help me save the little angles...
          > >
          > > Also how long will it take for them to get the
          > shape
          > > and colours of their parents...?
          > >
          > > Any help, advise, suggestions and comments will
          > > highly be appreciated...
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > __________________________________
          > > Do you Yahoo!?
          > > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
          > > http://companion.yahoo.com/
          >
          >


          __________________________________
          Do you Yahoo!?
          Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
          http://companion.yahoo.com/
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 80 From: Dom Date: 11/30/2003
          Subject: Re: New Member needs clarifications !
          Honestly, Eheim 2215 might too strong for your angel babies.

          It is better to shift the breeding pair to another tank before they
          spanning. instead of shift all the eggs to another tank.

          Or what you can do is get your 4 gallon tank into the 55gallon tank.
          then move the entire Amazon Sword plant into the 4gallon tank. So,
          the eggs wont explore to the air.
          Then take out the 4gallon tank with entire amazon sword plant.

          Once you started feeding the babies. you need to do 10-20% water
          change daily. It is good to use sponge filter with burbles....

          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, sunil kamath
          <sunnyvks@y...> wrote:
          > Hi Dom,
          >
          > Its a Ehiem 2215. And i have covered the suction hose
          > with mesh, so that the frys dont go near it.
          >
          > But i dont know what happened none of them
          > survived..:(
          >
          > But next time when they spawn i am planning tomove the
          > eggs to a different tank.
          >
          > Since they laid the egg on a Amazon Sword plan leaf,
          > how do i move it to the other tank ?
          >
          > Do i cut the leaf or do i remove the entire plant ??
          >
          > The quarntine tank i wont keep any wood or substrate
          > since i need to clean it is what was suggested to
          > me...
          >
          > There i plan to use Sponge filter.. since its a mall
          > 4gal quarantine tank...
          >
          > Any suggestions ??
          >
          >
          > --- Dom <itssg@y...> wrote:
          > > Hi Sunny,
          > >
          > > May I know how's your filtering system? The fries of
          > > your angel
          > > disappear due to sucking by the filter.
          > >
          > > It is hard to get the fries survive in the community
          > > tank. Unless you
          > > quarantine the breeding pair to another tank
          > > earlier.
          > >
          > > I was quarantined the breeding pair of angel in a
          > > 30gallon tank with
          > > some driftwood and internal filter with burble.
          > > (Can't use the power
          > > head filter. The fries might died due to the heavy
          > > water flow and
          > > suck by the filter)
          > >
          > > After the breeding pair mating. (They might took 1
          > > day to complete
          > > the mating) I left the eggs alone in the quaratine
          > > tank, and took out
          > > the breeding pair back to the previous community
          > > tank.
          > >
          > > The quarantine tank must running with air burble.
          > > And on the light on
          > > day time only. Remember get a heater and set to
          > > 28-30 degree celcious.
          > >
          > > I believe the fries in quarantine tank survive rate
          > > wil be higher.
          > >
          > > Regards,
          > > Dom
          > >
          > > --- In
          > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
          > > sunil kamath
          > > <sunnyvks@y...> wrote:
          > > > Hi Friends,
          > > >
          > > > This is sunny from osaka, japan. I just joined
          > > this
          > > > group recently and wish and expect to learn and
          > > share
          > > > a lot of things here..!
          > > >
          > > > Starting with learning..
          > > >
          > > > My angles have laid eggs and the frys ( about 5
          > > days
          > > > old ) are swimming around.
          > > >
          > > > This was my 55gal planted community tank housing
          > > > angles, gouramis, tetras, neons, loaches, rasboras
          > > etc
          > > > etc. Since these guys are eagerly waiting for the
          > > > oppurtunity to feast on the frys, i made a glass
          > > > partition keeping the breeing pair with their fry
          > > on
          > > > one side and the others on the other.
          > > >
          > > > But still some fry squeeze thru the thin gap and
          > > get
          > > > eaten up..
          > > >
          > > > The first day there were about 100 frys but
          > > yesterday
          > > > nite it had reduced to around 50 - 60 but today
          > > > morning there are only about 20 - 30 left :(
          > > > No idea how they are disappearing !!
          > > >
          > > > How do i save them, what are the precautions to be
          > > > taken ??
          > > >
          > > > on this side i only have a amazon sword plant on
          > > which
          > > > they spawned, plus some valisneria's and a small
          > > bunch
          > > > of java moss attached to driftwood..
          > > >
          > > > Do i need to keep the light on the whole nite ?? I
          > > > just keep a bed lamp on..
          > > >
          > > > Do i need to change the water ??
          > > >
          > > > I am feeding them frozen BBS, powdered tetramin
          > > flakes
          > > > and powdered tetra plankton.
          > > >
          > > > Do i need to move the frys to a fry net or whats
          > > it
          > > > called something that sticks to the wall of the
          > > tank
          > > > andhold the frys together ?? It will be a
          > > difficult
          > > > task now since the parents are gaurding them..
          > > always
          > > >
          > > > Guys please help me save the little angles...
          > > >
          > > > Also how long will it take for them to get the
          > > shape
          > > > and colours of their parents...?
          > > >
          > > > Any help, advise, suggestions and comments will
          > > > highly be appreciated...
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > __________________________________
          > > > Do you Yahoo!?
          > > > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
          > > > http://companion.yahoo.com/
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          > __________________________________
          > Do you Yahoo!?
          > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
          > http://companion.yahoo.com/
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 81 From: Aaron Martin Date: 11/30/2003
          Subject: Re: Hi there, I am new!!

          Hi Kelly,

          Welcome to the group.

          My name is Aaron and I live in the San Francisco Bay Area of California. I have been learning about fish for about a year and a half now. I currently have mostly the livebearers and I am now breeding them. I have a Bumble Bee Goby, Bettas, Guppies, Silver Lyretail & Marbled (Dalmation?) Mollies, Sunset Fire and Mickey Mouse & Red Platies, Marigold & Red Swordtails, Clown Plecos, Otocinculus, Clown Loaches, a big yellow snail, several different kinds of little snails and lots of fry. I am converting to planted tanks, I have a 10 gallon fry tank, a 12 gallon acrylic Eclipse system, a 40 gallon and a 55 gallon mixed community aquariums   

          "We now have MANY tanks inside with freshwater fish, but my passion has turned into a hobby as well as an addiction.  I am just in love with the live bearers, but am having trouble with a couple of things, and was hoping that somebody here could help me out."

          How many and what size aquariums do you have?

          "The very first fish that I had and fell in love with were my dalmation mollies... "

          I think these are the same fish I had when I started breeding, here they usally call them Marbled Mollies.

          " I just recently decided to add a couple of black and a couple of platinum mollies to my  black and white tank, "

          I recently got 3 female 'Silver Lyretail Fancy Finned' Mollies. I am guessing these are the same or similar to your Platinum. I had a male Black Lyretail Mollie that may have mated with the marbled mollies before he died last month.

          "... I can tell when my dalmation mollies are getting close to delivering their fry, but have NO idea how to tell when my recently plump platinum mollies are getting close. They just don't seem to bulge in the same manner and I want to get them into the breeding net on time, but not to early!!   Is there a secret to this or is it all guess work?"

          The fish I've had for several months are easy for me to tell when they are close to having babies. I guess I've just had more time to get used to their behavior patterens and personalitys. Also they are all pretty much on a set schedule of every 30 days or so. However with these 3 new White/Silver/Platinum Mollies, I didn't even know they were pregnant. The new 3 are only 2/3 or 1/2 the size of the mature Marbled females. I found out when I saw several dozen fry swimming around in the Quarantine tank.

          "My other problem is with my female swordtails.. We bought 2 VERY pregnant mommy's about a week ago and the owner told me to put them in the breeding net as soon as we got them home. So I did.  2 days later the 1st one delivered a huge sack of dead fry and then she died within minutes after she passed the fry.  Now yesterday the second swordtail passed one dead fry and then she started acting funny and died.. Is there a secret to breeding Swordtails?? "

          What I do is keep track of when each new batch is born, and about 25 days later I will transfer the expectant Mothers into the Materinty/Fry tank. I use a 10 gallon w/ lots of Java Moss and Hornwort, I like those 2 plants since they grow easy w/ low light and give the fry lots of hiding spaces. Light can be a stress factor so I think its good to have those plants which can survive w/ out the lights on for a couple days. I like to feed them heavily, especially lots of LIVE foods before they give birth, in hopes of reduceing the chance that they will eat their own fry and to give them the extra bit of nutrition (spirulina is a great choice) they will need seeing that they might not eat for a few days after dropping the fry. Since giving birth is so stressful on the fish, I like to reduce any other possible cause of stress that I can. Breeding traps and nets can be extremly stressful for expectant mothers, considering the very confined space and no place to hide. Thats why I transfer them into a seperate and well planted tank at least 5 before thier 'due date'. This gives them time to get used to the new surroundings and the plants give them 'privacy' to hide. When they start dropping fry, I turn off the lights and leave them off till later the next day or at least 24 hours. If possible, you can anesitize them to 'ease the pain' of giving birth.

          I recently bought 2 female and 1 male Red Swordtails, the females have already dropped fry & I didn't even know they were pregnant. Often the stress of being transferred can cause them to give birth pre-maturely or still born fry in more severe cases. If the fish are really stressed out, I've heard that they can 're-absorb' the fry causing the birthing schedule to be altered from the normal every 28-30 days to slightly longer or not at all.

          I had a female guppy that I had raised from a rescued fry, I didn't realize she was pregnant, but she looked sick. I transfered her into the Hospital tank and began medicating her for what appeared to be Swim Bladder Disease (SBD) and Dropsy. She didn't survive, but several of her fry did. It must of been the stress of giving bith so young that killed her. Now I seperate all the fry as soon as I can determine their sex, and wait till they are several months old and full grown before I breed them.

          I don't think there is any secrets, but if there was I certainly wouldn't know or it wouldn't be a secret anymore cause I wouldv'e posted it everywhere. I have had several 'new' fish die w/in a few days of purchase and/or giving birth. The variety of stesses these fish go through is tremendous. From beeing wildcaught, starved, over-medicated, shipped, stored, transfered, mishandled, impromper care at the lfs, and finally being rescued by you at the last moment just before they give birth. The whole process is very brutal and more often than not, very much a train wreck in progress. What I have done is built 'friendships' w/ all the lfs and learned their schedules for recieving new fish. Almost every week I will visit them the day after the new arrivals. There are usally many fish that dropped fry in the process and they will let me rescue the fry. I then raise them for a few months and breed/or sell them back to the store for $2.00 each. The fish I breed are much heal thier than any they get from the distibutors, and now the stores are less dependant on the big fish copanies.

          Hope that helps, thanks for joining the group and again Welcome,

          Aaron


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "~Kelly~"
          Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 11:56:24 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
          To:
          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Hi there, I am new!!

          Hi there,
           
           I am new here as of yesterday.  My name is Kelly and I am 39 yrs old and reside in Upstate NY with my husband and 2 teenagers.
           
          2 years ago we put a pond in our backyard which started our love and fascination for fish and aquariums. ( WOW is it ever addicting. and to think that I was against the pond. LOL But anyways).
           
          We now have MANY tanks inside with freshwater fish, but my passion has turned into a hobby as well as an addiction.  I am just in love with the live bearers, but am having trouble with a couple of things, and was hoping that somebody here could help me out.
           
          The very first fish that I had and fell in love with were my dalmation mollies... Of course being new to fish I had NO idea how rapidly they would have have fry , So I bought a new tank... ( 30high) decorated it with black rocks, white and black plants with a splash of red and it is GORGEOUS with the Dalmation Mollies swimming in it...    I just recently decided to add a couple of black and a couple of platinum mollies to my  black and white tank, and it really is a gorgeous tank.. HOWEVER ... I can tell when my dalmation mollies are getting close to delivering their fry, but have NO idea how to tell when my recently plump platinum mollies are getting close. They just don't seem to bulge in the same manner and I want to get them into the breeding net on time, but not to early!!   Is there a secret to this or is it all guess work?
           
          My other problem is with my female swordtails.. We bought 2 VERY pregnant mommy's about a week ago and the owner told me to put them in the breeding net as soon as we got them home. So I did.  2 days later the 1st one delivered a huge sack of dead fry and then she died within minutes after she passed the fry.  Now yesterday the second swordtail passed one dead fry and then she started acting funny and died.. Is there a secret to breeding Swordtails??
           
          Our water levels are all normal as we took a sample in to have it checked this morning.. The owner was not around due to the holiday, and the "help" had no idea.  They did offer to replace them as they have a 7 day guarentee on their fish as long as the water checks out OK, which ours did, but before I get 2 more female swordtails I would like a little bit of information, as it kills me to get them and then watch them die!!
           
          Any information that anyone has would be really really appreciated. Sorry this is so long, but it is my first post and I am trying to get it all in at once as to not bother you all over and over.
           
          Thank you so much,
            Kelly
           


          Aaron R. Martin, cmt ~ (925) 337-2340
          
          Livermore CA (San Francisco Bay Area)
           
          
          got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!
          
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
          
          stop by and see ~ membership is free!
          
          --

          ___________________________________________________________
          Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com
          http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup

          Group: AquaticLife Message: 82 From: sunil kamath Date: 12/1/2003
          Subject: Re: New Member needs clarifications !
          cool will do that.

          Thanks !

          --- Dom <itssg@...> wrote:
          > Honestly, Eheim 2215 might too strong for your angel
          > babies.
          >
          > It is better to shift the breeding pair to another
          > tank before they
          > spanning. instead of shift all the eggs to another
          > tank.
          >
          > Or what you can do is get your 4 gallon tank into
          > the 55gallon tank.
          > then move the entire Amazon Sword plant into the
          > 4gallon tank. So,
          > the eggs wont explore to the air.
          > Then take out the 4gallon tank with entire amazon
          > sword plant.
          >
          > Once you started feeding the babies. you need to do
          > 10-20% water
          > change daily. It is good to use sponge filter with
          > burbles....
          >
          > --- In
          > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
          > sunil kamath
          > <sunnyvks@y...> wrote:
          > > Hi Dom,
          > >
          > > Its a Ehiem 2215. And i have covered the suction
          > hose
          > > with mesh, so that the frys dont go near it.
          > >
          > > But i dont know what happened none of them
          > > survived..:(
          > >
          > > But next time when they spawn i am planning tomove
          > the
          > > eggs to a different tank.
          > >
          > > Since they laid the egg on a Amazon Sword plan
          > leaf,
          > > how do i move it to the other tank ?
          > >
          > > Do i cut the leaf or do i remove the entire plant
          > ??
          > >
          > > The quarntine tank i wont keep any wood or
          > substrate
          > > since i need to clean it is what was suggested to
          > > me...
          > >
          > > There i plan to use Sponge filter.. since its a
          > mall
          > > 4gal quarantine tank...
          > >
          > > Any suggestions ??
          > >
          > >
          > > --- Dom <itssg@y...> wrote:
          > > > Hi Sunny,
          > > >
          > > > May I know how's your filtering system? The
          > fries of
          > > > your angel
          > > > disappear due to sucking by the filter.
          > > >
          > > > It is hard to get the fries survive in the
          > community
          > > > tank. Unless you
          > > > quarantine the breeding pair to another tank
          > > > earlier.
          > > >
          > > > I was quarantined the breeding pair of angel in
          > a
          > > > 30gallon tank with
          > > > some driftwood and internal filter with burble.
          > > > (Can't use the power
          > > > head filter. The fries might died due to the
          > heavy
          > > > water flow and
          > > > suck by the filter)
          > > >
          > > > After the breeding pair mating. (They might took
          > 1
          > > > day to complete
          > > > the mating) I left the eggs alone in the
          > quaratine
          > > > tank, and took out
          > > > the breeding pair back to the previous community
          > > > tank.
          > > >
          > > > The quarantine tank must running with air
          > burble.
          > > > And on the light on
          > > > day time only. Remember get a heater and set to
          > > > 28-30 degree celcious.
          > > >
          > > > I believe the fries in quarantine tank survive
          > rate
          > > > wil be higher.
          > > >
          > > > Regards,
          > > > Dom
          > > >
          > > > --- In
          > > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
          > > > sunil kamath
          > > > <sunnyvks@y...> wrote:
          > > > > Hi Friends,
          > > > >
          > > > > This is sunny from osaka, japan. I just joined
          > > > this
          > > > > group recently and wish and expect to learn
          > and
          > > > share
          > > > > a lot of things here..!
          > > > >
          > > > > Starting with learning..
          > > > >
          > > > > My angles have laid eggs and the frys ( about
          > 5
          > > > days
          > > > > old ) are swimming around.
          > > > >
          > > > > This was my 55gal planted community tank
          > housing
          > > > > angles, gouramis, tetras, neons, loaches,
          > rasboras
          > > > etc
          > > > > etc. Since these guys are eagerly waiting for
          > the
          > > > > oppurtunity to feast on the frys, i made a
          > glass
          > > > > partition keeping the breeing pair with their
          > fry
          > > > on
          > > > > one side and the others on the other.
          > > > >
          > > > > But still some fry squeeze thru the thin gap
          > and
          > > > get
          > > > > eaten up..
          > > > >
          > > > > The first day there were about 100 frys but
          > > > yesterday
          > > > > nite it had reduced to around 50 - 60 but
          > today
          > > > > morning there are only about 20 - 30 left :(
          > > > > No idea how they are disappearing !!
          > > > >
          > > > > How do i save them, what are the precautions
          > to be
          > > > > taken ??
          > > > >
          > > > > on this side i only have a amazon sword plant
          > on
          > > > which
          > > > > they spawned, plus some valisneria's and a
          > small
          > > > bunch
          > > > > of java moss attached to driftwood..
          > > > >
          > > > > Do i need to keep the light on the whole nite
          > ?? I
          > > > > just keep a bed lamp on..
          > > > >
          > > > > Do i need to change the water ??
          > > > >
          > > > > I am feeding them frozen BBS, powdered
          > tetramin
          > > > flakes
          > > > > and powdered tetra plankton.
          > > > >
          > > > > Do i need to move the frys to a fry net or
          > whats
          > > > it
          > > > > called something that sticks to the wall of
          > the
          > > > tank
          > > > > andhold the frys together ?? It will be a
          > > > difficult
          > > > > task now since the parents are gaurding them..
          > > > always
          > > > >
          > > > > Guys please help me save the little angles...
          > > > >
          > > > > Also how long will it take for them to get the
          > > > shape
          > > > > and colours of their parents...?
          > > > >
          > > > > Any help, advise, suggestions and comments
          > will
          > > > > highly be appreciated...
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > __________________________________
          > > > > Do you Yahoo!?
          > > > > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
          > > > > http://companion.yahoo.com/
          >
          === message truncated ===


          __________________________________
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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 83 From: Tom Reagin Date: 12/1/2003
          Subject: Re: Tom
          It's possible,that if not pregnant, (in my experience
          they drp fry every 25 to 40 days) that she may be
          constipated. I stop all regular food for three days
          and feed boiled hulled peas (I use frozen and not
          canned.) I am certain that it wouldn't hurt. I also
          feed freeze dried daphnia occasionally.

          Yours

          TomR



          =====
          Thomas G. Reagin, O.D.
          104 Church Street
          Decatur, GA 30030

          Voice (404)378-3694
          Fax (404)373-0741

          __________________________________
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          Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 84 From: Naga Date: 12/1/2003
          Subject: Intro
          Hi ppl,

          Am from India and have two 5 ft tanks, two 2ft tanks,
          4 cement rings and a 3 ft tank.

          Fish include Gold varieties, delta guppies, Bettas,
          Chichlids, mollies, swordtails, platies, scats and
          some more.

          Guess that this group has really grown from strenght
          to strenght judging by the quality of mails and the
          number of members.

          Thanks to Aaron for intro'ing me to this group.

          Cheers,
          Naga

          Do visit and join www.groups.yahoo.com/group/Aquainfo
          Its all about aquariums and the scene seen from a
          global perspective.

          The belief is "where anyone can ask questions freely"
          without any hesitation, coz, we believe that "everyone
          was once a beginner".

          __________________________________
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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 85 From: Aaron Martin Date: 12/1/2003
          Subject: Re: Intro

          Hi Naga,

          What are the 'cement rings' that you mentioned? Do you have any pictures of them and/or your other aquariums? It would really be great for everybody to see how fish tanks look in India.

          Thanks for the nice words and welcome to the group, I'm glad you are here.

          Aaron

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Naga
          Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 08:34:15 -0800 (PST)
          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Intro

          Hi ppl,

          Am from India and have two 5 ft tanks, two 2ft tanks,
          4 cement rings and a 3 ft tank.

          Fish include Gold varieties, delta guppies, Bettas,
          Chichlids, mollies, swordtails, platies, scats and
          some more.

          Guess that this group has really grown from strenght
          to strenght judging by the quality of mails and the
          number of members.

          Thanks to Aaron for intro'ing me to this group.

          Cheers,
          Naga

          Do visit and join www.groups.yahoo.com/group/Aquainfo
          Its all about aquariums and the scene seen from a
          global perspective.

          The belief is "where anyone can ask questions freely"
          without any hesitation, coz, we believe that "everyone
          was once a beginner".

          ________ __________________________
          Do you Yahoo!?
          Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
          http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree


          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


          Aaron R. Martin, cmt
          
          (925) 337-2340
          
          Livermore CA (San Francisco Bay Area)
          
           
          
          got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!
          
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
          
          stop by and see ~ membership is free!
          
          --

          ___________________________________________________________
          Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com
          http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup

          Group: AquaticLife Message: 86 From: Tom Reagin Date: 12/1/2003
          Subject: Re: Ammonia_reducing_agent­
          Patience Bio Spira and water changes.

          TomR


          --- goodlipk <akira@...> wrote:
          > Any suggestions for a product that reduces ammonia
          > from fresh water
          > tanks.

          =====
          Thomas G. Reagin, O.D.
          104 Church Street
          Decatur, GA 30030

          Voice (404)378-3694
          Fax (404)373-0741

          __________________________________
          Do you Yahoo!?
          Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
          http://companion.yahoo.com/
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 87 From: ~Kelly~ Date: 12/1/2003
          Subject: Re: Tom
           
           Hi Chris... OK..... I have moved my moms that are due to burst into my "baby" tank and the temp is raised to 84 rather than 78..... Now we will see what the next day or 2 brings!
           
          Keep on sending pointers and hints... I am pretty new to this and I am LOVING it..... Living in Upstate NY, with our tough winters, I needed a new Hobby.   : )
           
          thanks bunches,
          Kelly
          -------Original Message-------
           
          Date: 11/30/2003 08:45:35 PM
          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Tom
           
          I have had great success in getting the female to give birth.  Once I
          see that she is acting a bit strange (staying at the top of the water,
          hiding in the plants etc), I raise the temperture of the water about 5
          - 10 degrees, and this seems to put the fish in a state of "ready to
          give birth".   Be sure to lower the temperture of the heater back down
          after a couple of hours after she gives birth.  Depending on the size
          of your tank will depend on how long it takes to heat it up the extra
          degrees.
          This has work successfully in all my live bearing fish.
          Hope this help
           
          Chris
          On Nov 30, 2003, at 8:37 PM, Dom wrote:
           
          > Hi Kelly,
          >
          > Hope this URL can answer your questions.
          >
          > nt_platy.htm
          >
          > There are few reasons caused your female platy "hold" the delivery of
          > babies/fries. As you said you seperated the female a few times. This
          > might caused her stressful.
          >
          > What I did normally was to seperate a pair of platy to a quarantine
          > tank without any disturb, till the female deliver the babies/fries.
          >
          > the live bearer of babies/fries might disappear between 2-3 days. You
          > can start feeding them with brineshrimp or liquir fry.
          >
          > I am doing the same with my swordtail pairs.
          >
          > Regards,
          > Dom
          >
          > <dreamz64@r...> wrote:
          > > Tom,
          > >
          > > Thank you so much for replying. I guess since our water is OK, I
          > will take
          > > them up on their offer to replace my swordtails and try again......
          > It does
          > > make sense that the stress from the move could have done it.
          > >
          > > You mentioned Platy's... I have ONE platy that has looked like she
          > was going
          > > to bust for 2-3 weeks now. I have seperated her a few times now,
          > but then I
          > > second guess myself as to whether she is pregnant or not and put
          > her back...
          > > .. But each time we go to the pet store and look at the Platy's
          > there NONE
          > > of them are pudgie like my female...... What can you tell me about
          > Platy's
          > > that might explain this??? Aren't they only pregnant for roughly
          > 30 days??
          > > Isn't that roughly how long inbetween bunches of Fry with Live
          > bearers??
          > >
          > > Thanks so much for replying.. I really appreciate it... Nobody else
          > has
          > > answered and I am just at a loss here....
          > >
          > > Kelly
          > >
          > > -------Original Message-------
          > >
          > > Date: 11/28/2003 12:52:04 PM
          > > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Hi there, I am new!!
          > >
          > > Kelly
          > >
          > > Moving fish to a new tank is stressful. I suspect
          > > that delivering fry is also stressful. I prefer to
          > > purchase female that are not too close to term. I
          > > also get 1/2 to 1/3 as many males. I haven't kept
          > > swordtails for over thirty years, but that is my
          > > recomendation for Platys, guppies, Endler's, etc.
          > >
          > > (I'd love to have some swordtails again, but I only
          > > have 13 tanks.)
          > >
          > > Yours
          > >
          > > TomR
          > >
          > > >
          > > > My other problem is with my female swordtails.. We
          > > > bought 2 VERY pregnant
          > > > mommy's about a week ago and the owner told me to
          > > > put them in the breeding
          > > > net as soon as we got them home. So I did. 2 days
          > > > later the 1st one
          > > > delivered a huge sack of dead fry and then she died
          > > > within minutes after she
          > > > passed the fry. Now yesterday the second swordtail
          > > > passed one dead fry and
          > > > then she started acting funny and died.. Is there a
          > > > secret to breeding
          > > > Swordtails??
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > =====
          > > Thomas G. Reagin, O.D.
          > > 104 Church Street
          > > Decatur, GA 30030
          > >
          > > Voice (404)378-3694
          > > Fax (404)373-0741
          > >
          > > __________________________________
          > > Do you Yahoo!?
          > > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
          > >
          > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          > > ADVERTISEMENT
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          >
          > ADVERTISEMENT
          > <image.tiff>
          > <image.tiff>
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          >
          >
          >
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          >
          Chris
           
          HAVE A GREAT DAY
           
          THE PROUD OWNER OF A IMAC
           
           
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 88 From: ~Kelly~ Date: 12/1/2003
          Subject: Re: Tom
           
           Hi Dom,
           
           Thank you so much for the input... However the link is not working... Would you happen to have another one maybe??? 
           
          Thank you,
           Kelly
          -------Original Message-------
           
          Date: 11/30/2003 08:38:16 PM
          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Tom
           
          Hi Kelly,

          Hope this URL can answer your questions.

          http://www.freshwatertropicalfishkeeping.com/Vistor's_Questions/pregna
          nt_platy.htm

          There are few reasons caused your female platy "hold" the delivery of
          babies/fries. As you said you seperated the female a few times. This
          might caused her stressful.

          What I did normally was to seperate a pair of platy to a quarantine
          tank without any disturb, till the female deliver the babies/fries.

          the live bearer of babies/fries might disappear between 2-3 days. You
          can start feeding them with brineshrimp or liquir fry.

          I am doing the same with my swordtail pairs.

          Regards,
          Dom

          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "~Kelly~"
          <dreamz64@r...> wrote:
          >  Tom,
          >
          > Thank you so much for replying. I guess since our water is OK, I
          will take
          > them up on their offer to replace my swordtails and try again......
          It does
          > make sense that the stress from the move could have done it.
          >
          > You mentioned Platy's... I have ONE platy that has looked like she
          was going
          > to bust for 2-3 weeks now.  I have seperated her a few times now,
          but then I
          > second guess myself as to whether she is pregnant or not and put
          her back...
          > .. But each time we go to the pet store and look at the Platy's
          there NONE
          > of them are pudgie like my female...... What can you tell me about
          Platy's
          > that might explain this???   Aren't they only pregnant for roughly
          30 days??
          >   Isn't that roughly how long inbetween bunches of Fry with Live
          bearers??
          >
          > Thanks so much for replying.. I really appreciate it... Nobody else
          has
          > answered and I am just at a loss here....
          >
          > Kelly

          > -------Original Message-------

          > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
          > Date: 11/28/2003 12:52:04 PM
          > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Hi there, I am new!!

          > Kelly
          >
          > Moving fish to a new tank is stressful.  I suspect
          > that delivering fry is also stressful.  I prefer to
          > purchase female that are not too close to term.  I
          > also get 1/2 to 1/3 as many males.  I haven't kept
          > swordtails for over thirty years, but that is my
          > recomendation for Platys, guppies, Endler's, etc.
          >
          > (I'd love to have some swordtails again, but I only
          > have 13 tanks.)
          >
          > Yours
          >
          > TomR
          >
          > >
          > > My other problem is with my female swordtails.. We
          > > bought 2 VERY pregnant
          > > mommy's about a week ago and the owner told me to
          > > put them in the breeding
          > > net as soon as we got them home. So I did.  2 days
          > > later the 1st one
          > > delivered a huge sack of dead fry and then she died
          > > within minutes after she
          > > passed the fry.  Now yesterday the second swordtail
          > > passed one dead fry and
          > > then she started acting funny and died.. Is there a
          > > secret to breeding
          > > Swordtails??
          > >
          > >
          >
          > =====
          > Thomas G. Reagin, O.D.
          > 104 Church Street
          > Decatur, GA   30030
          >
          > Voice (404)378-3694
          > Fax (404)373-0741
          >
          > __________________________________
          > Do you Yahoo!?
          > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
          > http://companion.yahoo.com/
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          > ADVERTISEMENT
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
           
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 89 From: ~Kelly~ Date: 12/1/2003
          Subject: Re: Hi there, I am new!!/AARON
           
           
           
           

           

          Hi Aaron.. Thank you so much for your reply... I am going to answer below in another color.  

          How many and what size aquariums do you have?  We have a 40 gallon mixed community tank that has, 2 each of.. black mollies, platinum mollies, dalmation mollies  and orange calico mollies,  2 kissing fish, 5 guppies ( 3 males and 2 females, my male swordtail, but will soon be getting my 2 females that I lost replaces, 3 platies, a pearl gourami, a teal/blue gouramie and a small silver dollar fish  and hubby has his weird things in there too.. ( a black ghost knife, a dragon eel, 2 crabs and my sons small shark 2-3" long)   We also have a 15 gallon that I keep my 3 black moores in that came out of the outdoor pond for the winter... They were about an inch long when we got them and are now 4-5 inches long..... Also in that tank are a bubble cheek goldfish and a brain goldfish..... They will ALL be going BACK in the pond in the spring and will stay there next winter as we were told to get them out, and then told that because of their size, that they would make it. Soooooo now I have these HUGE dirty fish, that need to have a water change about every 3 days.. <groan>   The last tank that we have is a 10 gallon, that is now home to my babies and 6 VERY pregnant moms.. ( there are 7 baby calico mollies that are a week and 1/2 old) The other 33 from that batch of fry were eaten by the dragon eel when I had the baby net in the community tank right after they were born.... The pregnant ones that I in there are 2 dalmation mollies, 2 platinum mollies, 1 platy and 1 red calico mollie. ( I have the calico Mollie and the platy in birthing nets as they are ready to deliver ( I THINK)  LOL

           

          I think these are the same fish I had when I started breeding, here they usally call them Marbled Mollies.  Are they white with black polka dots!! or vice versa?? as that is what mine are!

           

          I recently got 3 female 'Silver Lyretail Fancy Finned' Mollies. I am guessing these are the same or similar to your Platinum. I had a male Black Lyretail Mollie that may have mated with the marbled mollies before he died last month.  2 of our local pet stores have told me that Mollies like Mollies and it doesn't matter what kind they are.. So I guess with the combo that I have, I am apt to end up with some very pretty and unique Mollies... LOL

          ".The fish I've had for several months are easy for me to tell when they are close to having babies. I guess I've just had more time to get used to their behavior patterens and personalitys. Also they are all pretty much on a set schedule of every 30 days or so. However with these 3 new White/Silver/Platinum Mollies, I didn't even know they were pregnant. The new 3 are only 2/3 or 1/2 the size of the mature Marbled females. I found out when I saw several dozen fry swimming around in the Quarantine tank.   I have started to chart what fish gives birth when and will count the days..... at 25 days or so, I will move them to the Baby/Birthing tank until after they fry are born.

           

          What I do is keep track of when each new batch is born, and about 25 days later I will transfer the expectant Mothers into the Materinty/Fry tank. I use a 10 gallon w/ lots of Java Moss and Hornwort, I like those 2 plants since they grow easy w/ low light and give the fry lots of hiding spaces.   You Don't keep the fry in a birthing net until they are bigger and wont get sucked up by the filter tube thingy???   If Not... dont the other moms eat the fry???

           

           . If possible, you can anesitize them to 'ease the pain' of giving birth.    WOW... what does that mean and how do you do it, or what does it do?? <sorry but I warned you that I was a newbie.. LOL>

           Now I seperate all the fry as soon as I can determine their sex, and wait till they are several months old and full grown before I breed them.   Ohhhh I never thought of that..... Is there a certain age that you will be able to tell??

          Thank you sooooo much for the information and the warm welcome... We have an outdoor pond and I am am good with that info, but the inside fish are very new to me...

           

          Kelly


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "~Kelly~"
          Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2003 11:56:24 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
          To:
          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Hi there, I am new!!

          Hi there,
           
           I am new here as of yesterday.  My name is Kelly and I am 39 yrs old and reside in Upstate NY with my husband and 2 teenagers.
           
          2 years ago we put a pond in our backyard which started our love and fascination for fish and aquariums. ( WOW is it ever addicting. and to think that I was against the pond. LOL But anyways).
           
          We now have MANY tanks inside with freshwater fish, but my passion has turned into a hobby as well as an addiction.  I am just in love with the live bearers, but am having trouble with a couple of things, and was hoping that somebody here could help me out.
           
          The very first fish that I had and fell in love with were my dalmation mollies... Of course being new to fish I had NO idea how rapidly they would have have fry , So I bought a new tank... ( 30high) decorated it with black rocks, white and black plants with a splash of red and it is GORGEOUS with the Dalmation Mollies swimming in it...    I just recently decided to add a couple of black and a couple of platinum mollies to my  black and white tank, and it really is a gorgeous tank.. HOWEVER ... I can tell when my dalmation mollies are getting close to delivering their fry, but have NO idea how to tell when my recently plump platinum mollies are getting close. They just don't seem to bulge in the same manner and I want to get them into the breeding net on time, but not to early!!   Is there a secret to this or is it all guess work?
           
          My other problem is with my female swordtails.. We bought 2 VERY pregnant mommy's about a week ago and the owner told me to put them in the breeding net as soon as we got them home. So I did.  2 days later the 1st one delivered a huge sack of dead fry and then she died within minutes after she passed the fry.  Now yesterday the second swordtail passed one dead fry and then she started acting funny and died.. Is there a secret to breeding Swordtails??
           
          Our water levels are all normal as we took a sample in to have it checked this morning.. The owner was not around due to the holiday, and the "help" had no idea.  They did offer to replace them as they have a 7 day guarentee on their fish as long as the water checks out OK, which ours did, but before I get 2 more female swordtails I would like a little bit of information, as it kills me to get them and then watch them die!!
           
          Any information that anyone has would be really really appreciated. Sorry this is so long, but it is my first post and I am trying to get it all in at once as to not bother you all over and over.
           
          Thank you so much,
            Kelly
           


          Aaron R. Martin, cmt ~ (925) 337-2340
          
          Livermore CA (San Francisco Bay Area)
           
          
          got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!
          
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
          
          stop by and see ~ membership is free!
          
          --

          ___________________________________________________________
          Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com
          http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup



          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
           
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 90 From: Dom Date: 12/1/2003
          Subject: Re: Tom
          pls try on
          (http://www.freshwatertropicalfishkeeping.com/Vistor's_Questions/pregn
          ant_platy.htm)

          highlight from http....htm, copy and paste in the address column of
          your browser.

          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "~Kelly~"
          <dreamz64@r...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi Dom,
          >
          > Thank you so much for the input... However the link is not
          working... Would
          > you happen to have another one maybe???
          >
          > Thank you,
          > Kelly
          > -------Original Message-------
          >
          > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
          > Date: 11/30/2003 08:38:16 PM
          > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Tom
          >
          > Hi Kelly,
          >
          > Hope this URL can answer your questions.
          >
          >
          http://www.freshwatertropicalfishkeeping.com/Vistor's_Questions/pregna
          > nt_platy.htm
          >
          > There are few reasons caused your female platy "hold" the delivery
          of
          > babies/fries. As you said you seperated the female a few times.
          This
          > might caused her stressful.
          >
          > What I did normally was to seperate a pair of platy to a quarantine
          > tank without any disturb, till the female deliver the babies/fries.
          >
          > the live bearer of babies/fries might disappear between 2-3 days.
          You
          > can start feeding them with brineshrimp or liquir fry.
          >
          > I am doing the same with my swordtail pairs.
          >
          > Regards,
          > Dom
          >
          > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "~Kelly~"
          > <dreamz64@r...> wrote:
          > > Tom,
          > >
          > > Thank you so much for replying. I guess since our water is OK, I
          > will take
          > > them up on their offer to replace my swordtails and try
          again......
          > It does
          > > make sense that the stress from the move could have done it.
          > >
          > > You mentioned Platy's... I have ONE platy that has looked like
          she
          > was going
          > > to bust for 2-3 weeks now. I have seperated her a few times now,
          > but then I
          > > second guess myself as to whether she is pregnant or not and put
          > her back...
          > > .. But each time we go to the pet store and look at the Platy's
          > there NONE
          > > of them are pudgie like my female...... What can you tell me
          about
          > Platy's
          > > that might explain this??? Aren't they only pregnant for
          roughly
          > 30 days??
          > > Isn't that roughly how long inbetween bunches of Fry with Live
          > bearers??
          > >
          > > Thanks so much for replying.. I really appreciate it... Nobody
          else
          > has
          > > answered and I am just at a loss here....
          > >
          > > Kelly
          > >
          > > -------Original Message-------
          > >
          > > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
          > > Date: 11/28/2003 12:52:04 PM
          > > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
          > > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Hi there, I am new!!
          > >
          > > Kelly
          > >
          > > Moving fish to a new tank is stressful. I suspect
          > > that delivering fry is also stressful. I prefer to
          > > purchase female that are not too close to term. I
          > > also get 1/2 to 1/3 as many males. I haven't kept
          > > swordtails for over thirty years, but that is my
          > > recomendation for Platys, guppies, Endler's, etc.
          > >
          > > (I'd love to have some swordtails again, but I only
          > > have 13 tanks.)
          > >
          > > Yours
          > >
          > > TomR
          > >
          > > >
          > > > My other problem is with my female swordtails.. We
          > > > bought 2 VERY pregnant
          > > > mommy's about a week ago and the owner told me to
          > > > put them in the breeding
          > > > net as soon as we got them home. So I did. 2 days
          > > > later the 1st one
          > > > delivered a huge sack of dead fry and then she died
          > > > within minutes after she
          > > > passed the fry. Now yesterday the second swordtail
          > > > passed one dead fry and
          > > > then she started acting funny and died.. Is there a
          > > > secret to breeding
          > > > Swordtails??
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > =====
          > > Thomas G. Reagin, O.D.
          > > 104 Church Street
          > > Decatur, GA 30030
          > >
          > > Voice (404)378-3694
          > > Fax (404)373-0741
          > >
          > > __________________________________
          > > Do you Yahoo!?
          > > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
          > > http://companion.yahoo.com/
          > >
          > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          > > ADVERTISEMENT
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
          Service.
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          > ADVERTISEMENT
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 91 From: ~Kelly~ Date: 12/1/2003
          Subject: Re: Tom
           Hi Dom.      I finally got to the site.. THANK YOU sooooo much.  There is so much information there. I an already tell that I am going to be up half of the night reading.....
           
          Thanks,
            Kelly
           
          -------Original Message-------
           
          Date: 12/01/2003 08:44:51 PM
          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Tom
           
          pls try on
          (http://www.freshwatertropicalfishkeeping.com/Vistor's_Questions/pregn
          ant_platy.htm)

          highlight from http....htm, copy and paste in the address column of
          your browser.

          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "~Kelly~"
          <dreamz64@r...> wrote:

          >  Hi Dom,

          >  Thank you so much for the input... However the link is not
          working... Would
          > you happen to have another one maybe??? 
          >
          > Thank you,
          >  Kelly
          > -------Original Message-------

          > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
          > Date: 11/30/2003 08:38:16 PM
          > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Tom

          > Hi Kelly,
          >
          > Hope this URL can answer your questions.
          >
          >
          http://www.freshwatertropicalfishkeeping.com/Vistor's_Questions/pregna
          > nt_platy.htm
          >
          > There are few reasons caused your female platy "hold" the delivery
          of
          > babies/fries. As you said you seperated the female a few times.
          This
          > might caused her stressful.
          >
          > What I did normally was to seperate a pair of platy to a quarantine
          > tank without any disturb, till the female deliver the babies/fries.
          >
          > the live bearer of babies/fries might disappear between 2-3 days.
          You
          > can start feeding them with brineshrimp or liquir fry.
          >
          > I am doing the same with my swordtail pairs.
          >
          > Regards,
          > Dom
          >
          > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "~Kelly~"
          > <dreamz64@r...> wrote:
          > >  Tom,
          > >
          > > Thank you so much for replying. I guess since our water is OK, I
          > will take
          > > them up on their offer to replace my swordtails and try
          again......
          > It does
          > > make sense that the stress from the move could have done it.
          > >
          > > You mentioned Platy's... I have ONE platy that has looked like
          she
          > was going
          > > to bust for 2-3 weeks now.  I have seperated her a few times now,
          > but then I
          > > second guess myself as to whether she is pregnant or not and put
          > her back...
          > > .. But each time we go to the pet store and look at the Platy's
          > there NONE
          > > of them are pudgie like my female...... What can you tell me
          about
          > Platy's
          > > that might explain this???   Aren't they only pregnant for
          roughly
          > 30 days??
          > >   Isn't that roughly how long inbetween bunches of Fry with Live
          > bearers??
          > >
          > > Thanks so much for replying.. I really appreciate it... Nobody
          else
          > has
          > > answered and I am just at a loss here....
          > >
          > > Kelly
          > > 
          > > -------Original Message-------
          > > 
          > > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
          > > Date: 11/28/2003 12:52:04 PM
          > > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
          > > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Hi there, I am new!!
          > > 
          > > Kelly
          > >
          > > Moving fish to a new tank is stressful.  I suspect
          > > that delivering fry is also stressful.  I prefer to
          > > purchase female that are not too close to term.  I
          > > also get 1/2 to 1/3 as many males.  I haven't kept
          > > swordtails for over thirty years, but that is my
          > > recomendation for Platys, guppies, Endler's, etc.
          > >
          > > (I'd love to have some swordtails again, but I only
          > > have 13 tanks.)
          > >
          > > Yours
          > >
          > > TomR
          > >
          > > >
          > > > My other problem is with my female swordtails.. We
          > > > bought 2 VERY pregnant
          > > > mommy's about a week ago and the owner told me to
          > > > put them in the breeding
          > > > net as soon as we got them home. So I did.  2 days
          > > > later the 1st one
          > > > delivered a huge sack of dead fry and then she died
          > > > within minutes after she
          > > > passed the fry.  Now yesterday the second swordtail
          > > > passed one dead fry and
          > > > then she started acting funny and died.. Is there a
          > > > secret to breeding
          > > > Swordtails??
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > =====
          > > Thomas G. Reagin, O.D.
          > > 104 Church Street
          > > Decatur, GA   30030
          > >
          > > Voice (404)378-3694
          > > Fax (404)373-0741
          > >
          > > __________________________________
          > > Do you Yahoo!?
          > > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
          > > http://companion.yahoo.com/
          > >
          > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          > > ADVERTISEMENT
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
          Service.
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          > ADVERTISEMENT
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
           
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 92 From: Dom Date: 12/1/2003
          Subject: Re: Tom
          You're welcome. I downloaded the whole pages and reading it slowly.
          Enjoy the reading...

          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "~Kelly~"
          <dreamz64@r...> wrote:
          > Hi Dom. I finally got to the site.. THANK YOU sooooo much.
          There is
          > so much information there. I an already tell that I am going to be
          up half
          > of the night reading.....
          >
          > Thanks,
          > Kelly
          >
          > -------Original Message-------
          >
          > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
          > Date: 12/01/2003 08:44:51 PM
          > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Tom
          >
          > pls try on
          >
          (http://www.freshwatertropicalfishkeeping.com/Vistor's_Questions/pregn
          > ant_platy.htm)
          >
          > highlight from http....htm, copy and paste in the address column of
          > your browser.
          >
          > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "~Kelly~"
          > <dreamz64@r...> wrote:
          > >
          > > Hi Dom,
          > >
          > > Thank you so much for the input... However the link is not
          > working... Would
          > > you happen to have another one maybe???
          > >
          > > Thank you,
          > > Kelly
          > > -------Original Message-------
          > >
          > > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
          > > Date: 11/30/2003 08:38:16 PM
          > > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
          > > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Tom
          > >
          > > Hi Kelly,
          > >
          > > Hope this URL can answer your questions.
          > >
          > >
          >
          http://www.freshwatertropicalfishkeeping.com/Vistor's_Questions/pregna
          > > nt_platy.htm
          > >
          > > There are few reasons caused your female platy "hold" the
          delivery
          > of
          > > babies/fries. As you said you seperated the female a few times.
          > This
          > > might caused her stressful.
          > >
          > > What I did normally was to seperate a pair of platy to a
          quarantine
          > > tank without any disturb, till the female deliver the
          babies/fries.
          > >
          > > the live bearer of babies/fries might disappear between 2-3 days.
          > You
          > > can start feeding them with brineshrimp or liquir fry.
          > >
          > > I am doing the same with my swordtail pairs.
          > >
          > > Regards,
          > > Dom
          > >
          > > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "~Kelly~"
          > > <dreamz64@r...> wrote:
          > > > Tom,
          > > >
          > > > Thank you so much for replying. I guess since our water is OK,
          I
          > > will take
          > > > them up on their offer to replace my swordtails and try
          > again......
          > > It does
          > > > make sense that the stress from the move could have done it.
          > > >
          > > > You mentioned Platy's... I have ONE platy that has looked like
          > she
          > > was going
          > > > to bust for 2-3 weeks now. I have seperated her a few times
          now,
          > > but then I
          > > > second guess myself as to whether she is pregnant or not and
          put
          > > her back...
          > > > .. But each time we go to the pet store and look at the Platy's
          > > there NONE
          > > > of them are pudgie like my female...... What can you tell me
          > about
          > > Platy's
          > > > that might explain this??? Aren't they only pregnant for
          > roughly
          > > 30 days??
          > > > Isn't that roughly how long inbetween bunches of Fry with
          Live
          > > bearers??
          > > >
          > > > Thanks so much for replying.. I really appreciate it... Nobody
          > else
          > > has
          > > > answered and I am just at a loss here....
          > > >
          > > > Kelly
          > > >
          > > > -------Original Message-------
          > > >
          > > > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
          > > > Date: 11/28/2003 12:52:04 PM
          > > > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
          > > > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Hi there, I am
          new!!
          > > >
          > > > Kelly
          > > >
          > > > Moving fish to a new tank is stressful. I suspect
          > > > that delivering fry is also stressful. I prefer to
          > > > purchase female that are not too close to term. I
          > > > also get 1/2 to 1/3 as many males. I haven't kept
          > > > swordtails for over thirty years, but that is my
          > > > recomendation for Platys, guppies, Endler's, etc.
          > > >
          > > > (I'd love to have some swordtails again, but I only
          > > > have 13 tanks.)
          > > >
          > > > Yours
          > > >
          > > > TomR
          > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > My other problem is with my female swordtails.. We
          > > > > bought 2 VERY pregnant
          > > > > mommy's about a week ago and the owner told me to
          > > > > put them in the breeding
          > > > > net as soon as we got them home. So I did. 2 days
          > > > > later the 1st one
          > > > > delivered a huge sack of dead fry and then she died
          > > > > within minutes after she
          > > > > passed the fry. Now yesterday the second swordtail
          > > > > passed one dead fry and
          > > > > then she started acting funny and died.. Is there a
          > > > > secret to breeding
          > > > > Swordtails??
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > >
          > > > =====
          > > > Thomas G. Reagin, O.D.
          > > > 104 Church Street
          > > > Decatur, GA 30030
          > > >
          > > > Voice (404)378-3694
          > > > Fax (404)373-0741
          > > >
          > > > __________________________________
          > > > Do you Yahoo!?
          > > > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
          > > > http://companion.yahoo.com/
          > > >
          > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          > > > ADVERTISEMENT
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
          > Service.
          > >
          > >
          > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          > > ADVERTISEMENT
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
          Service.
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          > ADVERTISEMENT
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 93 From: John Russo Date: 12/2/2003
          Subject: Hey everyone
          Hi I just joined the group and wanted to say hi...I have a 29 gallon
          freshwater tank, looking to go up to a 55 gallon some time soon. I
          was wondering if anyone knew about setting up lights in a hood. I
          want to use something other than the generic style, ie the Perfecto
          hood. I don't want anything fancy just looking to set something so I
          can have 2 bulbs one for day and one for night any help would be
          great thanks.

          John
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 94 From: Aaron Martin Date: 12/2/2003
          Subject: Re: Hey everyone

          Hi John,

          Welcome to the group.

           "...so I can have 2 bulbs, one for day and one for night..."

          Are you wanting to grow live plants? Are you looking for for night viewing lights or just moonlight effect?

          I recently bought retrofit kits from Aquarium Hobbyist Supply. http://www.ahsupply.com/

          The lights and ballasts may not be the best quality, but they are the most reasonable price. The lights I got are 'off spectrum', that is they are not industry standard K rating. Mine are 6700K where as the standard is 6500K, I'm not sure how much of a difference this makes. Also the ballasts are the'chinese' kind rather than the more popular American ballasts.

          It seems to be good enough for now as I am still a beginner, maybe later when I've learned more I'll upgrade the ballasts. The compact flourescent lights should be replaced every 6 months to one year anyway. Overall its a good start. You might be able to fit 2 55watt bulbs in there. The people that work there are very knowledgeable and its worth at least emailing them for more professional advice.

          Might also try That Fish Place, http://www.thatpetplace.com/

          its a very large store back East (110,000 square feet) and they send out a catalog as well. They have the best prices I've seen so far.

          As far as different lights, there are blue 'moonlights' that are usally 10 watts. For nightviewing there are red lights also 10 watt.

          Hope that helps, thanks for joining and again, Welcome,

          Aaron


          got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!

          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium

          stop by and see ~ membership is free!

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "John Russo"
          Date: Tue, 02 Dec 2003 20:43:51 -0000
          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Hey everyone

          Hi I just joined the group and wanted to say hi...I have a 29 gallon
          freshwater tank, looking to go up to a 55 gallon some time soon.  I
          was wondering if anyone knew about setting up lights in a hood. I
          want to use something other than the generic style, ie the Perfecto
          hood.  I don't want anything fancy just looking to set something so I
          can have 2 bulbs one for day and one for night any help would be
          great thanks.

          John

          --

          ___________________________________________________________
          Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com
          http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup

          Group: AquaticLife Message: 95 From: John Russo Date: 12/2/2003
          Subject: Re: Hey everyone
          I am looking for moonlighting/nightviewing effects. I have a Pleco
          that hides as soon as I turn the lights on I hardly ever get to see
          him.


          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron
          Martin" <massagetherapist@m...> wrote:
          >
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 96 From: Christina Date: 12/2/2003
          Subject: Cory Cat Fry
          Does anyone have any education on cory cat fry....pictures perhaps?
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 97 From: Christina Date: 12/2/2003
          Subject: HI I'm New!!!!
          I breed guppies. Beautiful guppies. I just had some cory cat eggs
          hatch.....tiny little bugers...lol

          I live in Louisiana. I am selling my guppies to local pet stores.
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 98 From: Dom Date: 12/2/2003
          Subject: Re: Hey everyone
          Hi John,

          check on http://www.arcadia-uk.com/en/120fluorescentlamps.html for
          the lighting system. Try to get something like in blue or purple
          color light. This is normally what we called moon lighting.

          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "John Russo"
          <whisper14623@y...> wrote:
          > I am looking for moonlighting/nightviewing effects. I have a Pleco
          > that hides as soon as I turn the lights on I hardly ever get to see
          > him.
          >
          >
          > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron
          > Martin" <massagetherapist@m...> wrote:
          > >
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 99 From: Aaron Martin Date: 12/3/2003
          Subject: Re: HI I'm New!!!!

          Hi Christina,

          Welcome to the group.

          How long have you been breeding guppies? Mine aren't doing as well as the Mollies and Swordtails. The guppie fry seem to dissapear quickly, even in the fry tank, they just don't have as good of a survival rate as the others. Are guppy fry more sensitive to water conditions or have any special needs? What kinds are you breeding?

          I used to have 2 pairs of cory cats, bronze and emerald green. They would lay eggs regularly, but I never saw any fry. I reluctantly sold them back to the store I bought (rented is more like it) them from. I am still very new to this and learning new things about breeding every week.

          Thanks for joining the group,


          Aaron R. Martin, cmt ~ (925) 337-2340

          Livermore CA (San Francisco Bay Area)


          got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!

          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium

          stop by and see ~ membership is free!


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Christina"
          Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 05:30:55 -0000
          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] HI I'm New!!!!

          I breed guppies.  Beautiful guppies.  I just had some cory cat eggs
          hatch.....tiny little bugers...lol

          I live in Louisiana.  I am selling my guppies to local pet stores.

          --

          ___________________________________________________________
          Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com
          http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup

          Group: AquaticLife Message: 100 From: Kelly Date: 12/3/2003
          Subject: Slight amonia problem!!
          Hi there,

          I am having a slight amonia problem in my 30 gallon tank and am not
          sure what more I can do.. The tank has been cleaned and I have done
          20 and 30% water changes for the past 3-4 days and it is still
          reading that there is a bit of amonia in it. None of the fish are
          sickly, acting funny or dying, but I do not want them to start
          either. I may have a few to man fish in there, but if there are to
          many its just by 3-5 at the most. I have not done anything
          different, fed them more or less or added fish in 2 weeks, so I am
          really at a loss here. My PH levels are fine also. Any suggestions?

          Thanks so much,
          Kelly
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 101 From: amalthea23 Date: 12/3/2003
          Subject: Re: Slight amonia problem!!
          did the problem just start? or has it been an ongoing issue? i have the
          same problem with my 35 gallon tank. it's strange because like you,
          none of my fish are acting funny and as a matter of fact, the bubblegum
          parrots just had another clutch of about 100 fry hatch...
          amalthea
          On Wednesday, December 3, 2003, at 06:36 PM, Kelly wrote:

          > Hi there,
          >
          > I am having a slight amonia problem in my 30 gallon tank and am not
          > sure what more I can do.. The tank has been cleaned and I have done
          > 20 and 30% water changes for the past 3-4 days and it is still
          > reading that there is a bit of amonia in it. None of the fish are
          > sickly, acting funny or dying, but I do not want them to start
          > either.  I may have a few to man fish in there, but if there are to
          > many its just by 3-5 at the most.  I have not done anything
          > different, fed them more or less or added fish in 2 weeks, so I am
          > really at a loss here.   My PH levels are fine also.  Any suggestions?
          >
          > Thanks so much,
          > Kelly
          >
          >
          <image.tiff>
          >
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
          http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
          for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
          religion....
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 102 From: ~Kelly~ Date: 12/3/2003
          Subject: Re: Slight amonia problem!!
           Hi there,       The problem started about a week ago.  The water is sooo very crystal clear also.
           
          I have had no problem with breeding either, but when I notice one of females ( I only breed live bearers) are getting close, I move them to a 10 gallon tank that has the temp a bit higher.  Actually I have had new batches of fry for the past 3 days in a row.  Sunday my calico molly had about 40 fry, Monday one of my platinum mollies had 15 live and 20 stillborn and this morning my other platinum molly had 15 and 10 stillborn.  These are the first batches of fry for both of my platinum mollies, but the 3rd since I have had my calico molly.
           
          I am just at a loss as to why all of the sudden I have this slight bit of amonia.   I put the moms back into the community tank about 12 hours after the fry are born, but the babies stay in the 10 gallon.
           
          Kelly
           
          -------Original Message-------
           
          Date: 12/03/2003 06:43:07 PM
          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Slight amonia problem!!
           
          did the problem just start? or has it been an ongoing issue? i have the
          same problem with my 35 gallon tank. it's strange because like you,
          none of my fish are acting funny and as a matter of fact, the bubblegum
          parrots just had another clutch of about 100 fry hatch...
          amalthea
          On Wednesday, December 3, 2003, at 06:36 PM, Kelly wrote:
           
          > Hi there,
          >
          > I am having a slight amonia problem in my 30 gallon tank and am not
          > sure what more I can do.. The tank has been cleaned and I have done
          > 20 and 30% water changes for the past 3-4 days and it is still
          > reading that there is a bit of amonia in it. None of the fish are
          > sickly, acting funny or dying, but I do not want them to start
          > either. I may have a few to man fish in there, but if there are to
          > many its just by 3-5 at the most. I have not done anything
          > different, fed them more or less or added fish in 2 weeks, so I am
          > really at a loss here. My PH levels are fine also. Any suggestions?
          >
          > Thanks so much,
          > Kelly
          >
          >
          <image.tiff>
          >
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
          for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
          religion....
           
           
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 103 From: M Reed Enterprises Date: 12/3/2003
          Subject: Re: Slight amonia problem!!
          Kelly -
           
          If your testing is accurate and you cannot find dead fish in the tank, are not overfeeding and you have adequate filtration that you are not changing too often and good aeration, it is probably from overpopulation. If you can increase aeration, it should help or solve the problem. You can also add more surface to your filter for microbes to grow on. How you do this depends on the kind of filter you are using. 
           
          Mike 
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: amalthea23
          Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 3:41 PM
          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Slight amonia problem!!

          did the problem just start? or has it been an ongoing issue? i have the same problem with my 35 gallon tank. it's strange because like you, none of my fish are acting funny and as a matter of fact, the bubblegum parrots just had another clutch of about 100 fry hatch...
          amalthea
          On Wednesday, December 3, 2003, at 06:36 PM, Kelly wrote:

          Hi there,

          I am having a slight amonia problem in my 30 gallon tank and am not
          sure what more I can do.. The tank has been cleaned and I have done
          20 and 30% water changes for the past 3-4 days and it is still
          reading that there is a bit of amonia in it. None of the fish are
          sickly, acting funny or dying, but I do not want them to start
          either.  I may have a few to man fish in there, but if there are to
          many its just by 3-5 at the most.  I have not done anything
          different, fed them more or less or added fish in 2 weeks, so I am
          really at a loss here.   My PH levels are fine also.  Any suggestions?

          Thanks so much,
          Kelly


          <image.tiff>


          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 104 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 12/3/2003
          Subject: Re: Slight amonia problem!!
          How old is the tank? (It sounds well-established, but I thought I'd
          check.) Is the nitrite level still at 0? You might try taking a water
          sample to a pet store to have them test it and make sure you're test kit
          is giving accurate readings.

          I used to get occasional nitrite spikes in my 150 gallon tank, but if I
          had any ammonia spikes, I never noticed them.

          - Trevor

          ~Kelly~ wrote:

          > Hi there, The problem started about a week ago. The water is
          > sooo very crystal clear also.
          >
          > I have had no problem with breeding either, but when I notice one of
          > females ( I only breed live bearers) are getting close, I move them to
          > a 10 gallon tank that has the temp a bit higher. Actually I have had
          > new batches of fry for the past 3 days in a row. Sunday my calico
          > molly had about 40 fry, Monday one of my platinum mollies had 15 live
          > and 20 stillborn and this morning my other platinum molly had 15 and
          > 10 stillborn. These are the first batches of fry for both of my
          > platinum mollies, but the 3rd since I have had my calico molly.
          >
          > I am just at a loss as to why all of the sudden I have this slight bit
          > of amonia. I put the moms back into the community tank about 12
          > hours after the fry are born, but the babies stay in the 10 gallon.
          >
          > Kelly
          >
          > /-------Original Message-------/
          >
          > /*From:*/ FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
          > <mailto:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
          > /*Date:*/ 12/03/2003 06:43:07 PM
          > /*To:*/ FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
          > <mailto:FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
          > /*Subject:*/ Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Slight amonia problem!!
          >
          > did the problem just start? or has it been an ongoing issue? i have the
          > same problem with my 35 gallon tank. it's strange because like you,
          > none of my fish are acting funny and as a matter of fact, the bubblegum
          > parrots just had another clutch of about 100 fry hatch...
          > amalthea
          > On Wednesday, December 3, 2003, at 06:36 PM, Kelly wrote:
          >
          > > Hi there,
          > >
          > > I am having a slight amonia problem in my 30 gallon tank and am not
          > > sure what more I can do.. The tank has been cleaned and I have done
          > > 20 and 30% water changes for the past 3-4 days and it is still
          > > reading that there is a bit of amonia in it. None of the fish are
          > > sickly, acting funny or dying, but I do not want them to start
          > > either. I may have a few to man fish in there, but if there are to
          > > many its just by 3-5 at the most. I have not done anything
          > > different, fed them more or less or added fish in 2 weeks, so I am
          > > really at a loss here. My PH levels are fine also. Any suggestions?
          > >
          > > Thanks so much,
          > > Kelly
          > >
          > >
          >
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 105 From: amalthea23 Date: 12/3/2003
          Subject: Re: Slight amonia problem!!
          it really is weird. i vacuumed my tank out, did water changes, all of
          that. right now i'm trying some additives to dissolve any organic waste
          that might be left after the cleaning which should spike the ammonia a
          bit, but i think will reduce it in the end. i'm hoping that helps. my
          pleco seems to be the first fish to show stress when levels are off,
          but he's doing really well.
          does anyone else in the group have any ideas for us?
          just to help you out i have a 35 gallon tank, it's been up about 5
          months or so. i have an emperor 400 running in it (with duel biowheels
          and one basket filled with ammochips and one with carbon) there's a
          couple of live plants in the tank, a sword leaf and a banana plant. i
          have 2 pictus cats, 3 x ray tetras, one pleco, one kuhli loach, one
          glass cat, 6 adult bubblegums and two juvenile ones, not including the
          fry.
          any ideas would be welcome..
          amalthea
          On Wednesday, December 3, 2003, at 07:07 PM, ~Kelly~ wrote:

          <image.tiff>
          >
          >
          <image.tiff>
          >
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


          http://www.puppetterrors.com
          don't be afraid to scream...
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 106 From: Dom Date: 12/3/2003
          Subject: Re: HI I'm New!!!!
          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron Martin"
          <massagetherapist@m...> wrote:
          >

          I am breeding the guppies too. But i never put the breeding pair in
          the tank. due to the filtering system and water flow are too strong
          for the fry. The survival rate of the fry getting lower in the tank.
          Unless you have the planted tank which is full of plants and only
          with guppies inside.

          check out the pic i posted in Photos section. The small pot which i
          keep with some Lotus floating. And made the natural environment for
          guppy. A breeding pair of mine can hv 80-100 babies in a month.

          I seldom feed the fry in the pot. Due to the pot exploring under the
          sun shine. The algea and bacteria growing. So, that is the source
          food for my guppy fry.
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 107 From: Dom Date: 12/3/2003
          Subject: Re: Slight amonia problem!!
          try to pratice a weekly of 20-30% of water change. Wash the filter
          sponge or media with the old water which you took out from the tank.
          So that, the amonia will gone and good bacteria will remain.

          i am doing that and never facing of amonia prob.

          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, amalthea23
          <amalthea23@m...> wrote:
          > it really is weird. i vacuumed my tank out, did water changes, all
          of
          > that. right now i'm trying some additives to dissolve any organic
          waste
          > that might be left after the cleaning which should spike the
          ammonia a
          > bit, but i think will reduce it in the end. i'm hoping that helps.
          my
          > pleco seems to be the first fish to show stress when levels are
          off,
          > but he's doing really well.
          > does anyone else in the group have any ideas for us?
          > just to help you out i have a 35 gallon tank, it's been up about 5
          > months or so. i have an emperor 400 running in it (with duel
          biowheels
          > and one basket filled with ammochips and one with carbon) there's a
          > couple of live plants in the tank, a sword leaf and a banana plant.
          i
          > have 2 pictus cats, 3 x ray tetras, one pleco, one kuhli loach, one
          > glass cat, 6 adult bubblegums and two juvenile ones, not including
          the
          > fry.
          > any ideas would be welcome..
          > amalthea
          > On Wednesday, December 3, 2003, at 07:07 PM, ~Kelly~ wrote:
          >
          > <image.tiff>
          > >
          > >
          > <image.tiff>
          > >
          > >
          > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
          Service.
          >
          >
          > http://www.puppetterrors.com
          > don't be afraid to scream...
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 108 From: Naga Date: 12/3/2003
          Subject: Re: Intro
          Thanks Aaron,

          I shall shortly post the snaps in the group.

          The cement rings that I was referring to are
          rings(cylinders) made of concrete which are used
          generally for lining wells.Just as aquarists find
          Tupperware fine for raising BBS or fry, the same with
          cememnt rings. They are very usefull as ponds.

          I have a slightly different version though. I found a
          shop selling concrete pots, I just lined it with white
          cement and water proofing compund and lo and behold, I
          have 4 little ponds(very small-2ft dia) for raising
          fry in natural environs. Each of them costed around 2
          dollars including all the cement and the
          waterproofing.

          Warm rgds,
          Naga

          Do visit and join www.groups.yahoo.com/group/Aquainfo
          Its all about aquariums and the scene seen from a
          global perspective.

          The belief is "where anyone can ask questions freely"
          without any hesitation, coz, we believe that "everyone
          was once a beginner".


          --- Aaron Martin <massagetherapist@...> wrote:

          ---------------------------------

          Hi Naga,

          What are the 'cement rings' that you mentioned? Do you
          have any pictures of them and/or your other aquariums?
          It would really be great for everybody to see how fish
          tanks look in India.

          Thanks for the nice words and welcome to the group,
          I'm glad you are here.

          Aaron

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Naga
          Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 08:34:15 -0800 (PST)
          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Intro

          Hi ppl,

          Am from India and have two 5 ft tanks, two 2ft tanks,
          4 cement rings and a 3 ft tank.

          Fish include Gold varieties, delta guppies, Bettas,
          Chichlids, mollies, swordtails, platies, scats and
          some more.

          Guess that this group has really grown from strenght
          to strenght judging by the quality of mails and the
          number of members.

          Thanks to Aaron for intro'ing me to this group.

          Cheers,
          Naga

          Do visit and join www.groups.yahoo.com/group/Aquainfo
          Its all about aquariums and the scene seen from a
          global perspective.

          The belief is "where anyone can ask questions freely"
          without any hesitation, coz, we believe that "everyone
          was once a beginner".

          ________ __________________________
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          Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
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          Aaron R. Martin, cmt(925) 337-2340Livermore CA (San
          Francisco Bay Area) got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've
          got a group for
          you!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquariumstop
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          --
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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 109 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 12/3/2003
          Subject: Re: Slight amonia problem!!
          M Reed Enterprises wrote:

          > Kelly -
          >
          > If you can increase aeration, it should help or solve
          > the problem.

          Now that I think of it, that's how I solved the problem I was having
          with the occasional nitrite spikes in my 150 gal. tank - I added a
          powerhead, and I haven't had a problem since, even when I canister
          filter broke down and I had to go without it for a week while I was
          waiting for a part.

          Hope that helps,

          Trevor
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 110 From: amalthea23 Date: 12/3/2003
          Subject: Re: Slight amonia problem!!
          that's what i've been doing, but the level always stays the same. it's
          all very odd, because i can't imagine the fry even surviving if the
          levels were what the tests say they are....
          amalthea
          On Wednesday, December 3, 2003, at 09:46 PM, Dom wrote:

          > try to pratice a weekly of 20-30% of water change. Wash the filter
          > sponge or media with the old water which you took out from the tank.
          > So that, the amonia will gone and good bacteria will remain.
          >
          > i am doing that and never facing of amonia prob.
          >
          > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, amalthea23
          > <amalthea23@m...> wrote:
          > > it really is weird. i vacuumed my tank out, did water changes, all
          > of
          > > that. right now i'm trying some additives to dissolve any organic
          > waste
          > > that might be left after the cleaning which should spike the
          > ammonia a
          > > bit, but i think will reduce it in the end. i'm hoping that helps.
          > my
          > > pleco seems to be the first fish to show stress when levels are
          > off,
          > > but he's doing really well.
          > > does anyone else in the group have any ideas for us?
          > > just to help you out i have a 35 gallon tank, it's been up about 5
          > > months or so. i have an emperor 400 running in it (with duel
          > biowheels
          > > and one basket filled with ammochips and one with carbon) there's a
          > > couple of live plants in the tank, a sword leaf and a banana plant.
          > i
          > > have 2 pictus cats, 3 x ray tetras, one pleco, one kuhli loach, one
          > > glass cat, 6 adult bubblegums and two juvenile ones, not including
          > the
          > > fry.
          > > any ideas would be welcome..
          > > amalthea
          > > On Wednesday, December 3, 2003, at 07:07 PM, ~Kelly~ wrote:
          > >
          > > <image.tiff>
          > > >
          > > >
          > > <image.tiff>
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
          > Service.
          > >
          > >
          > > http://www.puppetterrors.com
          > > don't be afraid to scream...
          >
          >
          <image.tiff>
          >
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


          http://www.puppetterrors.com
          don't be afraid to scream...
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 111 From: sunil kamath Date: 12/3/2003
          Subject: New tank for breeding
          Hi Friends,

          I am planning to keep a new 20gal tank just for
          breeding angles.

          I am not planning to have any plants or gravel in
          this.

          I will fill it up with the water from my main 55gal
          planted community tank where the angles are at
          present.
          Just keep a few rocks in there and a heater.

          So my question is since iwill be using the water from
          my community tank do i still need to run it for 30 -
          40 days before i can introduce the breeding angles in
          there ??

          Since it looks like they are about to lay eggs in the
          near future...

          Sorry for such a silly question... !!!!

          __________________________________
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          Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 112 From: Dom Date: 12/4/2003
          Subject: Re: Slight amonia problem!!
          r u overfeed? The leftover and dirts from your fish might increase
          the amonia.

          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, amalthea23
          <amalthea23@m...> wrote:
          > that's what i've been doing, but the level always stays the same.
          it's
          > all very odd, because i can't imagine the fry even surviving if the
          > levels were what the tests say they are....
          > amalthea
          > On Wednesday, December 3, 2003, at 09:46 PM, Dom wrote:
          >
          > > try to pratice a weekly of 20-30% of water change. Wash the filter
          > > sponge or media with the old water which you took out from the
          tank.
          > > So that, the amonia will gone and good bacteria will remain.
          > >
          > > i am doing that and never facing of amonia prob.
          > >
          > > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, amalthea23
          > > <amalthea23@m...> wrote:
          > > > it really is weird. i vacuumed my tank out, did water changes,
          all
          > > of
          > > > that. right now i'm trying some additives to dissolve any
          organic
          > > waste
          > > > that might be left after the cleaning which should spike the
          > > ammonia a
          > > > bit, but i think will reduce it in the end. i'm hoping that
          helps.
          > > my
          > > > pleco seems to be the first fish to show stress when levels are
          > > off,
          > > > but he's doing really well.
          > > > does anyone else in the group have any ideas for us?
          > > > just to help you out i have a 35 gallon tank, it's been up
          about 5
          > > > months or so. i have an emperor 400 running in it (with duel
          > > biowheels
          > > > and one basket filled with ammochips and one with carbon)
          there's a
          > > > couple of live plants in the tank, a sword leaf and a banana
          plant.
          > > i
          > > > have 2 pictus cats, 3 x ray tetras, one pleco, one kuhli loach,
          one
          > > > glass cat, 6 adult bubblegums and two juvenile ones, not
          including
          > > the
          > > > fry.
          > > > any ideas would be welcome..
          > > > amalthea
          > > > On Wednesday, December 3, 2003, at 07:07 PM, ~Kelly~ wrote:
          > > >
          > > > <image.tiff>
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > <image.tiff>
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > > > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
          > > Service.
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > http://www.puppetterrors.com
          > > > don't be afraid to scream...
          > >
          > >
          > <image.tiff>
          > >
          > >
          > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
          Service.
          >
          >
          > http://www.puppetterrors.com
          > don't be afraid to scream...
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 113 From: Dom Date: 12/4/2003
          Subject: Re: New tank for breeding
          What I am suggest is take 30-50% of the water from the 55gal tank.
          And mix with new water. Let it run with filter system for a day will
          do.

          i am doing that for my angel pair. but i am using the internal filter
          with sponge and burble.

          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, sunil kamath
          <sunnyvks@y...> wrote:
          > Hi Friends,
          >
          > I am planning to keep a new 20gal tank just for
          > breeding angles.
          >
          > I am not planning to have any plants or gravel in
          > this.
          >
          > I will fill it up with the water from my main 55gal
          > planted community tank where the angles are at
          > present.
          > Just keep a few rocks in there and a heater.
          >
          > So my question is since iwill be using the water from
          > my community tank do i still need to run it for 30 -
          > 40 days before i can introduce the breeding angles in
          > there ??
          >
          > Since it looks like they are about to lay eggs in the
          > near future...
          >
          > Sorry for such a silly question... !!!!
          >
          > __________________________________
          > Do you Yahoo!?
          > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
          > http://companion.yahoo.com/
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 114 From: Dom Date: 12/4/2003
          Subject: Pet Expo in Malaysia.
          Please refer to the following URL for more details.

          http://www.petworld.com.my/pw_events.htm

          We (Malaysian Cichlid Association) going to have a booth and having
          some display tanks in there.

          I will be in charge of planted tank with some tropical fish and
          cichlids.

          Welcome anyone from oversea to join and pay a visit.
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 115 From: sunil kamath Date: 12/4/2003
          Subject: Re: New tank for breeding
          Hi Dom,

          Yeah thats what i had in mind, about 50% old water
          with 50% new water.

          You mentioned internal filter, you mean the sponge
          filter which runs using a aerator ??

          How many do you think i will need for a 20gal tank ?

          since i have one but its too small i guess..

          Will the angles breed in such an environment, w/o any
          plants ??

          On what will they lay their eggs ??

          last month they laid eggs on my amazon sword plant in
          my community tank !!

          --- Dom <itssg@...> wrote:
          > What I am suggest is take 30-50% of the water from
          > the 55gal tank.
          > And mix with new water. Let it run with filter
          > system for a day will
          > do.
          >
          > i am doing that for my angel pair. but i am using
          > the internal filter
          > with sponge and burble.
          >
          > --- In
          > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
          > sunil kamath
          > <sunnyvks@y...> wrote:
          > > Hi Friends,
          > >
          > > I am planning to keep a new 20gal tank just for
          > > breeding angles.
          > >
          > > I am not planning to have any plants or gravel in
          > > this.
          > >
          > > I will fill it up with the water from my main
          > 55gal
          > > planted community tank where the angles are at
          > > present.
          > > Just keep a few rocks in there and a heater.
          > >
          > > So my question is since iwill be using the water
          > from
          > > my community tank do i still need to run it for 30
          > -
          > > 40 days before i can introduce the breeding angles
          > in
          > > there ??
          > >
          > > Since it looks like they are about to lay eggs in
          > the
          > > near future...
          > >
          > > Sorry for such a silly question... !!!!
          > >
          > > __________________________________
          > > Do you Yahoo!?
          > > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
          > > http://companion.yahoo.com/
          >
          >


          __________________________________
          Do you Yahoo!?
          Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
          http://companion.yahoo.com/
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 116 From: M Reed Enterprises Date: 12/4/2003
          Subject: Re: Slight amonia problem!!
          If you are getting high readings and it is not having an effect on your fish, the readings are probably false. Some water additives cause such faulty readings. They usually say so on the label.
           
          Mike
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: amalthea23
          Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 9:54 PM
          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Slight amonia problem!!

          that's what i've been doing, but the level always stays the same. it's all very odd, because i can't imagine the fry even surviving if the levels were what the tests say they are....
          amalthea
          On Wednesday, December 3, 2003, at 09:46 PM, Dom wrote:

          try to pratice a weekly of 20-30% of water change. Wash the filter
          sponge or media with the old water which you took out from the tank.
          So that, the amonia will gone and good bacteria will remain.

          i am doing that and never facing of amonia prob.

          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, amalthea23
          <amalthea23@m...> wrote:
          > it really is weird. i vacuumed my tank out, did water changes, all
          of
          > that. right now i'm trying some additives to dissolve any organic
          waste
          > that might be left after the cleaning which should spike the
          ammonia a
          > bit, but i think will reduce it in the end. i'm hoping that helps.
          my
          > pleco seems to be the first fish to show stress when levels are
          off,
          > but he's doing really well.
          > does anyone else in the group have any ideas for us?
          > just to help you out i have a 35 gallon tank, it's been up about 5
          > months or so. i have an emperor 400 running in it (with duel
          biowheels
          > and one basket filled with ammochips and one with carbon) there's a
          > couple of live plants in the tank, a sword leaf and a banana plant.
          i
          > have 2 pictus cats, 3 x ray tetras, one pleco, one kuhli loach, one
          > glass cat, 6 adult bubblegums and two juvenile ones, not including
          the
          > fry.
          > any ideas would be welcome..
          > amalthea
          > On Wednesday, December 3, 2003, at 07:07 PM, ~Kelly~ wrote:
          >
          > <image.tiff>
          > >
          > >
          > <image.tiff>
          > >
          > >
          > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > >
          > >
          > >
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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 117 From: amalthea23 Date: 12/4/2003
          Subject: Re: Slight amonia problem!!
          actually, i've been reducing feedings a lot. every week i skip at least
          2 days of feeding...
          amalthea
          On Thursday, December 4, 2003, at 04:00 AM, Dom wrote:

          > r u overfeed? The leftover and dirts from your fish might increase
          > the amonia.
          >
          > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, amalthea23
          > <amalthea23@m...> wrote:
          > > that's what i've been doing, but the level always stays the same.
          > it's
          > > all very odd, because i can't imagine the fry even surviving if the
          > > levels were what the tests say they are....
          > > amalthea
          > > On Wednesday, December 3, 2003, at 09:46 PM, Dom wrote:
          > >
          > > > try to pratice a weekly of 20-30% of water change. Wash the filter
          > > > sponge or media with the old water which you took out from the
          > tank.
          > > > So that, the amonia will gone and good bacteria will remain.
          > > >
          > > > i am doing that and never facing of amonia prob.
          > > >
          > > > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, amalthea23
          > > > <amalthea23@m...> wrote:
          > > > > it really is weird. i vacuumed my tank out, did water changes,
          > all
          > > > of
          > > > > that. right now i'm trying some additives to dissolve any
          > organic
          > > > waste
          > > > > that might be left after the cleaning which should spike the
          > > > ammonia a
          > > > > bit, but i think will reduce it in the end. i'm hoping that
          > helps.
          > > > my
          > > > > pleco seems to be the first fish to show stress when levels are
          > > > off,
          > > > > but he's doing really well.
          > > > > does anyone else in the group have any ideas for us?
          > > > > just to help you out i have a 35 gallon tank, it's been up
          > about 5
          > > > > months or so. i have an emperor 400 running in it (with duel
          > > > biowheels
          > > > > and one basket filled with ammochips and one with carbon)
          > there's a
          > > > > couple of live plants in the tank, a sword leaf and a banana
          > plant.
          > > > i
          > > > > have 2 pictus cats, 3 x ray tetras, one pleco, one kuhli loach,
          > one
          > > > > glass cat, 6 adult bubblegums and two juvenile ones, not
          > including
          > > > the
          > > > > fry.
          > > > > any ideas would be welcome..
          > > > > amalthea
          > > > > On Wednesday, December 3, 2003, at 07:07 PM, ~Kelly~ wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > <image.tiff>
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > <image.tiff>
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > > > > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
          > > > Service.
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > http://www.puppetterrors.com
          > > > > don't be afraid to scream...
          > > >
          > > >
          > > <image.tiff>
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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          > > >
          > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
          > Service.
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          http://www.puppetterrors.com
          don't be afraid to scream...
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 118 From: amalthea23 Date: 12/4/2003
          Subject: Re: Slight amonia problem!!
          if that's the case, is there ever a way to really know what the levels
          are? is there a better testing kit out there than the usual ones?
          amalthea
          On Thursday, December 4, 2003, at 10:58 AM, M Reed Enterprises wrote:

          > If you are getting high readings and it is not having an effect on
          > your fish, the readings are probably false. Some water additives cause
          > such faulty readings. They usually say so on the label.
          >  
          > Mike
          >  
          > ----- Original Message -----

          http://www.puppetterrors.com
          don't be afraid to scream...
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 119 From: M Reed Enterprises Date: 12/4/2003
          Subject: Re: Slight amonia problem!!
          The label of the product usually tells you how to correct the reading. For example it may say to divide the reading you get by a specific number to get the real reading.
           
          Mike 
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: amalthea23
          Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 8:22 AM
          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Slight amonia problem!!

          if that's the case, is there ever a way to really know what the levels are? is there a better testing kit out there than the usual ones?
          amalthea
          On Thursday, December 4, 2003, at 10:58 AM, M Reed Enterprises wrote:

          If you are getting high readings and it is not having an effect on your fish, the readings are probably false. Some water additives cause such faulty readings. They usually say so on the label.
           
          Mike
           
          ----- Original Message -----

          http://www.puppetterrors.com
          don't be afraid to scream...
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 120 From: ~Kelly~ Date: 12/4/2003
          Subject: Re: Slight amonia problem!!
           Hi Mike and all others that have helped...
           
          Thank you ALL so much for your suggestions and help.
           
          I finally threw my hands up and took a sample in to have it checked and it was normal....... YEAH!     I asked the owner WHY the difference in readings within 5 minutes when he does the same test I do and he asked how I cleaned the tube, stored it etc. Everything that I was doing was the right thing ( rinsing, leaving top off and storing upside down etc)     
           
          Soooooooo when hubby got home for lunch I told him and he said that last week he checked it and left the water in the tube on accident and it was in there for a couple of days... I called the poor guy back and told him and sure enough... from hubby leaving the water in the test tube for a few days it stained it and was giving me a false reading...... <Smmmmmmack>>>>> needless to say, only ONE of us will be playing with my tanks from now on... LOL  I went back down and bought a new 59 cent tube from him and now I am getting correct readings.. Who ever would have thought?????
           
          Kelly
           
          -------Original Message-------
           
          Date: 12/03/2003 07:15:09 PM
          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Slight amonia problem!!
           
          Kelly -
           
          If your testing is accurate and you cannot find dead fish in the tank, are not overfeeding and you have adequate filtration that you are not changing too often and good aeration, it is probably from overpopulation. If you can increase aeration, it should help or solve the problem. You can also add more surface to your filter for microbes to grow on. How you do this depends on the kind of filter you are using. 
           
          Mike 
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: amalthea23
          Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 3:41 PM
          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Slight amonia problem!!

          did the problem just start? or has it been an ongoing issue? i have the same problem with my 35 gallon tank. it's strange because like you, none of my fish are acting funny and as a matter of fact, the bubblegum parrots just had another clutch of about 100 fry hatch...
          amalthea
          On Wednesday, December 3, 2003, at 06:36 PM, Kelly wrote:

          Hi there,

          I am having a slight amonia problem in my 30 gallon tank and am not
          sure what more I can do.. The tank has been cleaned and I have done
          20 and 30% water changes for the past 3-4 days and it is still
          reading that there is a bit of amonia in it. None of the fish are
          sickly, acting funny or dying, but I do not want them to start
          either.  I may have a few to man fish in there, but if there are to
          many its just by 3-5 at the most.  I have not done anything
          different, fed them more or less or added fish in 2 weeks, so I am
          really at a loss here.   My PH levels are fine also.  Any suggestions?

          Thanks so much,
          Kelly


          <image.tiff>


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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 121 From: Kelly Date: 12/4/2003
          Subject: Black Moor's???
          Hello again, Its me.. the resident newbie with a couple of more
          questions.

          We have a pond in our backyard that is roughly 12'X15'. We let the
          kids each pick out 2 fish for the pond again this year like usual,
          and they both got these tiny little 1/2" long black Moor's. ( so we
          had 4 in there) ( Lucky for us I guess that they didn't pick out a 50
          dollar Koi... LOL) However.. after being in the pond from roughly
          March until September they were no longer 1/2" long fish. They are
          now 4-5" long fish. We brought them inside because ONE pet store
          owner told us they wouldn't live in the pond if the water temp was
          under 65 degrees, but forgot to tell us until last month that the
          temperature info he gave us was for when they were little. NOT the
          monster size that they are now.

          Anyways. We have a 15 gallon tank set up with the 3 moors that made
          it and the 2 algea eaters that needed to come in also. ( They are now
          6 and 10 inches long and way to big and aggressive for our community
          tanks after being outside with the big koi, comets, shubunkins etc.)
          There is plenty of room in the tank and the sole purpose of the tank
          is just to hold them over until spring when they can then go back
          into the pond and stay there.

          Yesterday I noticed that 2 of them were pushing the 3rd one ALL over
          the tank. They did this NON stop for the entire day. I know that the
          2 pushing her around on the backside are males and that they were
          probably helping her to not get egg bound. ( this is what happened to
          molly #4 that was in the pond, but it was a shubunking pushing her
          around and the speed difference and size of the pond killed her after
          she covered the pond with eggs).. HOWEVER..... I see NO eggs in the
          tank after nearly 24 hours of them pushing her around... Does anyone
          know anything about moor's and can maybe shed some insight onto what
          I should do. I see no eggs, and with this being a holding spot, its
          a plain tank with just a small bit of gravel and some plants. a
          filter, but no heater etc. I KNOW that I would see them. I just don't
          want her to become egg bound and die.

          Do they release the eggs WHILE being "goosed", after or do the males
          often goose them along for no reason??

          Thanks so much.. and sorry this was such a long post!
          Kelly
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 122 From: Aaron Martin Date: 12/4/2003
          Subject: Re: Slight amonia problem!!

          wow, I never realized that could happen, now I'll be much more carefull. Thanks for sharing that w/ us

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "~Kelly~"
          Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2003 15:55:15 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
          To:
          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Slight amonia problem!!

           Hi Mike and all others that have helped...
           
          Thank you ALL so much for your suggestions and help.
           
          I finally threw my hands up and took a sample in to have it checked and it was normal....... YEAH!     I asked the owner WHY the difference in readings within 5 minutes when he does the same test I do and he asked how I cleaned the tube, stored it etc. Everything that I was doing was the right thing ( rinsing, leaving top off and storing upside down etc)     
           
          Soooooooo when hubby got home for lunch I told him and he said that last week he checked it and left the water in the tube on accident and it was in there for a couple of days... I called the poor guy back and told him and sure enough... from hubby leaving the water in the test tube for a few days it stained it and was giving me a false reading...... <Smmmmmmack>>>>> needless to say, only ONE of us will be playing with my tanks from now on... LOL  I went back down and bought a new 59 cent tube from him and now I am getting correct readings.. Who ever would have thought?????
           
          Kelly
           
          -------Original Message-------
           
          Date: 12/03/2003 07:15:09 PM
          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Slight amonia problem!!
           
          Kelly -
           
          If your testing is accurate and you cannot find dead fish in the tank, are not overfeeding and you have adequate filtration that you are not changing too often and good aeration, it is probably from overpopulation. If you can increase aeration, it should help or solve the problem. You can also add more surface to your filter for microbes to grow on. How you do this depends on the kind of filter you are using. 
           
          Mike 
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: amalthea23
          Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 3:41 PM
          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Slight amonia problem!!

          did the problem just start? or has it been an ongoing issue? i have the same problem with my 35 gallon tank. it's strange because like you, none of my fish are acting funny and as a matter of fact, the bubblegum parrots just had another clutch of about 100 fry hatch...
          amalthea
          On Wednesday, December 3, 2003, at 06:36 PM, Kelly wrote:

          Hi there,

          I am having a slight amonia problem in my 30 gallon tank and am not
          sure what more I can do.. The tank has been cleaned and I have done
          20 and 30% water changes for the past 3-4 days and it is still
          reading that there is a bit of amonia in it. None of the fish are
          sickly, acting funny or dying, but I do not want them to start
          either.  I may have a few to man fish in there, but if there are to
          many its just by 3-5 at the most.  I have not done anything
          different, fed them more or less or added fish in 2 weeks, so I am
          really at a loss here.   My PH levels are fine also.  Any suggestions?

          Thanks so much,
          Kelly


          <image.tiff>


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          Aaron R. Martin, cmt
          
          (925) 337-2340
          
          Livermore CA (San Francisco Bay Area)
          
           
          
          got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!
          
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
          
          stop by and see ~ membership is free!
          
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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 123 From: Aaron Martin Date: 12/4/2003
          Subject: Re: New tank for breeding

          HI Sunil,

          In my experience, tanks are always going through a 'cycle'. Most often we only worry about the new tank cycling from scratch. However anytime I change the fish load, especially when its increased, either adding new fish or maybe even just a new batch of fry growing up, the beneficial bacteria must increase as well. There is going to be ammonia and nitItes spike, likely much more gradually and less noticeable during this process. Sometimes refered to as mini- or micro-cycles.

          "fill it up with the water from my main 55gal
          planted community tank"

          I have tried the same approach when having to quickly set up another Hospital/Quarantine or Materinty/Fry tank. I have heard of people 'seeding' a new tank w/ gravel and/or bacteria from an established system, this is to speed up the initial cycling process, but will not eliminate it. I too, still wonder how long it takes for a 'bare' or 'sterile' tank (without any substrate or bio-wheel) to cycle. I have only ever done this very short term, 7-10 days while treating the fish. I do change up to 25% of the water eachday in order to minimize any toxic level of ammonia from accumalating.  

          "I am not planning to have any plants or gravel in
          this."

          I can understand not having any gravel, but why not any live plants? They can help 'filter' the water and help the cycling process. I have not yet kept angels, so please forgive my ignorance.

          "Just keep a few rocks in there and a heater."

          What will help greatly is to put any rocks or decorations you plan on using in the new tank into the established tank for several days to allow the bacteria time to build up and thus seeding the new tank. What are you planning on using for filtration? I use sponge/foam filters in my bare tanks, they work great. You can run it in the current tank for a few days to give it a jump start.

          To try and answer your question- "...do i still need to run it for 30 -
          40 days before i can introduce..."

          Maybe? It all depends on the steps you take setting it up. You can dramatically reduce the time it takes to cycle. Using only established water for initial fill and subsequent daily 10% water changes should be a good start. 'Seeding' everthing else you plan to use, especially the sponge filter, by putting it in the 55 gallon tank for several days will also be very good. Live plants are my own personal recomendation along with lots of aeriation. Minimize feeding and quickly clean up any uneaten food w/in 3 minutes. Monitor the ammonia/nitrIte levels daily prior to water changes.

          Good luck, hope that helps.

          Aaron


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: sunil kamath
          Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 22:30:21 -0800 (PST)
          To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] New tank for breeding

          Hi Friends,

          I am planning to keep a new 20gal tank just for
          breeding angles.

          I am not planning to have any plants or gravel in
          this.

          I will fill it up with the water from my main 55gal
          planted community tank where the angles are at
          present.
          Just keep a few rocks in there and a heater.

          So my question is since iwill be using the water from
          my community tank do i still need to run it for 30 -
          40 days before i can introduce the breeding angles in
          there ??

          Since it looks like they are about to lay eggs in the
          near future...

          Sorry for such a silly question... !!!!

          __________________________________
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          Aaron R. Martin, cmt
          
          (925) 337-2340
          
          Livermore CA (San Francisco Bay Area)
          
           
          
          got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!
          
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
          
          stop by and see ~ membership is free!
          
          --

          ___________________________________________________________
          Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com
          http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup

          Group: AquaticLife Message: 124 From: Dom Date: 12/4/2003
          Subject: Re: New tank for breeding
          Please refer to
          http://www.cichlid-forum.com/reviews/view_product_details.php?id=9

          for the Hydro Sponge Filters in cichlid-forum.com

          This type of filter must working with the air pump. and the water
          flow of this filter will not kill the fry. saw some of the fishes lay
          eggs on this filter also.

          http://www.oklahomadiscus.com/custom4.html
          http://www.oklahomadiscus.com/photo2.html
          Check on the above URL for how's the discus and angel laying eggs.
          They will lay on top of the pipe or something standing in the middle
          of the tank.

          Yes. Just pure tank without plants and gravel will do. But do
          remember, you must put the heater. Due to some tropical fish like
          warm water. try to adjust the temp. to 28-30 degree celcious.

          After the breeding pair success on spawning. Take out the breeding
          pair back to the previous tank. Just let the eggs alone. but filter,
          heater must be in running mode.

          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, sunil kamath
          <sunnyvks@y...> wrote:
          > Hi Dom,
          >
          > Yeah thats what i had in mind, about 50% old water
          > with 50% new water.
          >
          > You mentioned internal filter, you mean the sponge
          > filter which runs using a aerator ??
          >
          > How many do you think i will need for a 20gal tank ?
          >
          > since i have one but its too small i guess..
          >
          > Will the angles breed in such an environment, w/o any
          > plants ??
          >
          > On what will they lay their eggs ??
          >
          > last month they laid eggs on my amazon sword plant in
          > my community tank !!
          >
          > --- Dom <itssg@y...> wrote:
          > > What I am suggest is take 30-50% of the water from
          > > the 55gal tank.
          > > And mix with new water. Let it run with filter
          > > system for a day will
          > > do.
          > >
          > > i am doing that for my angel pair. but i am using
          > > the internal filter
          > > with sponge and burble.
          > >
          > > --- In
          > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
          > > sunil kamath
          > > <sunnyvks@y...> wrote:
          > > > Hi Friends,
          > > >
          > > > I am planning to keep a new 20gal tank just for
          > > > breeding angles.
          > > >
          > > > I am not planning to have any plants or gravel in
          > > > this.
          > > >
          > > > I will fill it up with the water from my main
          > > 55gal
          > > > planted community tank where the angles are at
          > > > present.
          > > > Just keep a few rocks in there and a heater.
          > > >
          > > > So my question is since iwill be using the water
          > > from
          > > > my community tank do i still need to run it for 30
          > > -
          > > > 40 days before i can introduce the breeding angles
          > > in
          > > > there ??
          > > >
          > > > Since it looks like they are about to lay eggs in
          > > the
          > > > near future...
          > > >
          > > > Sorry for such a silly question... !!!!
          > > >
          > > > __________________________________
          > > > Do you Yahoo!?
          > > > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
          > > > http://companion.yahoo.com/
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          > __________________________________
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          > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
          > http://companion.yahoo.com/
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 125 From: Aaron Martin Date: 12/6/2003
          Subject: Re: Hi there, I am new!!/AARON
          Hi Kelly,
           
          I was thinking putting my response in green might make it look like Christmas colors, I made the font larger to try and make it easier to see.
           
          >2 each of..dalmation mollies and orange calico mollies,  2 kissing fish, ... a teal/blue gouramie and a small silver dollar fish...small shark 2-3" long...<

          >I think these are the same fish I had when I started breeding, here they usally call them Marbled Mollies.  Are they white with black polka dots!! or vice versa?? as that is what mine are!<

          I stand corrected, I finally saw the Dalmation Mollies for the first time at the lfs the other day, opposite of the marbled mollies. What do the Orange Calico Mollies look like? Are the kissing fish the the Pink Gouramis?- they get really huge, like 15".  The teal/ blue sounds like the Dwarf Neon Blue Gouramis I had. What is a silver dollar fish/ are they round like a discus? I don't think I've ever seen these before. What kind of shark, if its a bala it must only be a baby.

          > I have started to chart what fish gives birth when and will count the days..... at 25 days or so, I will move them to the Baby/Birthing tank until after they fry are born.<

          Thats good to hear, let me know how it goes.

          > You Don't keep the fry in a birthing net until they are bigger and wont get sucked up by the filter tube thingy???   If Not... dont the other moms eat the fry???<

          I usally only have 1 mom in there at a time, if more than 1, I will use a net breeder only for a very short duration to try & minimize stress. I only use sponge/foam filters in the fry tank.

          > . If possible, you can anesitize them to 'ease the pain' of giving birth.    WOW... what does that mean and how do you do it, or what does it do?? <sorry but I warned you that I was a newbie.. LOL>

          I spelled it wrong, Anesthetize, but its using a drug that can reduce pain and stress for fish. Just like when humans give birth or have surgery. I have not tried this yet, only read about it so far.

          > Now I seperate all the fry as soon as I can determine their sex, and wait till they are several months old and full grown before I breed them.   Ohhhh I never thought of that..... Is there a certain age that you will be able to tell??<

          With Mollies, Platies and Swordtails, its easy to determine the Males as soon as 3 weeks. I use the 12 gallon as a grow out tank/Bachelor pad for all the boys till they get big enough to sell.

          >Thank you sooooo much for the information and the warm welcome... We have an outdoor pond and I am am good with that info, but the inside fish are very new to me... <

          You are very welcome, I am glad you are here. I have yet to try taking care of a pond, but after seeing the pics of the outdoor growing ponds for the fry I am going to give it a try in Spring. The fish are still rather new to me as well. I am learning as much as I can, unfortunately its been mostly the hard way through trial & error w/ big fish losses. It's sad when they die, especially when I've watched them being born.

          Did you get your questions about the Black moors chasing each other answered?

          Thanks again,

          Aaron

          -----Original Message -----
          From: "~Kelly~"
          Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 18:39:19 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
          To:
          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Hi there, I am new!!/AARON

          Hi Aaron.. Thank you so much for your reply... I am going to answer below in another color.  

          How many and what size aquariums do you have?  We have a 40 gallon mixed community tank that has, 2 each of.. black mollies, platinum mollies, dalmation mollies  and orange calico mollies,  2 kissing fish, 5 guppies ( 3 males and 2 females, my male swordtail, but will soon be getting my 2 females that I lost replaces, 3 platies, a pearl gourami, a teal/blue gouramie and a small silver dollar fish  and hubby has his weird things in there too.. ( a black ghost knife, a dragon eel, 2 crabs and my sons small shark 2-3" long)   We also have a 15 gallon that I keep my 3 black moores in that came out of the outdoor pond for the winter... They were about an inch long when we got them and are now 4-5 inches long..... Also in that tank are a bubble cheek goldfish and a brain goldfish..... They will ALL be going BACK in the pond in the spring and will stay there next winter as we were told to get them out, and then told that because of their size, that they would make it. Soooooo now I have these HUGE dirty fish, that need to have a water change about every 3 days.. <groan>   The last tank that we have is a 10 gallon, that is now home to my babies and 6 VERY pregnant moms.. ( there are 7 baby calico mollies that are a week and 1/2 old) The other 33 from that batch of fry were eaten by the dragon eel when I had the baby net in the community tank right after they were born.... The pregnant ones that I in there are 2 dalmation mollies, 2 platinum mollies, 1 platy and 1 red calico mollie. ( I have the calico Mollie and the platy in birthing nets as they are ready to deliver ( I THINK)  LOL

           

          I think these are the same fish I had when I started breeding, here they usally call them Marbled Mollies.  Are they white with black polka dots!! or vice versa?? as that is what mine are!

           

          I recently got 3 female 'Silver Lyretail Fancy Finned' Mollies. I am guessing these are the same or similar to your Platinum. I had a male Black Lyretail Mollie that may have mated with the marbled mollies before he died last month.  2 of our local pet stores have told me that Mollies like Mollies and it doesn't matter what kind they are.. So I guess with the combo that I have, I am apt to end up with some very pretty and unique Mollies... LOL

          ".The fish I've had for several months are easy for me to tell when they are close to having babies. I guess I've just had more time to get used to their behavior patterens and personalitys. Also they are all pretty much on a set schedule of every 30 days or so. However with these 3 new White/Silver/Platinum Mollies, I didn't even know they were pregnant. The new 3 are only 2/3 or 1/2 the size of the mature Marbled females. I found out when I saw several dozen fry swimming around in the Quarantine tank.   I have started to chart what fish gives birth when and will count the days..... at 25 days or so, I will move them to the Baby/Birthing tank until after they fry are born.

           

          What I do is keep track of when each new batch is born, and about 25 days later I will transfer the expectant Mothers into the Materinty/Fry tank. I use a 10 gallon w/ lots of Java Moss and Hornwort, I like those 2 plants since they grow easy w/ low light and give the fry lots of hiding spaces.   You Don't keep the fry in a birthing net until they are bigger and wont get sucked up by the filter tube thingy???   If Not... dont the other moms eat the fry???

           

           . If possible, you can anesitize them to 'ease the pain' of giving birth.    WOW... what does that mean and how do you do it, or what does it do?? <sorry but I warned you that I was a newbie.. LOL>

           Now I seperate all the fry as soon as I can determine their sex, and wait till they are several months old and full grown before I breed them.   Ohhhh I never thought of that..... Is there a certain age that you will be able to tell??

          Thank you sooooo much for the information and the warm welcome... We have an outdoor pond and I am am good with that info, but the inside fish are very new to me...

           

          Kelly

           

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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 127 From: Kelly Date: 12/7/2003
          Subject: Sponge Filter??
          Hi there... I have read alot about sponges or sponge filters being
          used in your fry tanks.. Can anyone explain to me what these are..
          what they do and why they are better for fry tanks??

          Thank you,
          Kelly
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 128 From: ~Kelly~ Date: 12/7/2003
          Subject: Re: Hi there, I am new!!/AARON
           
           
          -------Original Message-------
           
          Date: 12/07/2003 01:15:36 AM
          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Hi there, I am new!!/AARON
           
          Hi Kelly,
           
          Hi Aaron.. Look for the red... we will keep with the X-mas theme.... LOL
           
           
           

          I stand corrected, I finally saw the Dalmation Mollies for the first time at the lfs the other day, opposite of the marbled mollies. What do the Orange Calico Mollies look like? Are the kissing fish the the Pink Gouramis?- they get really huge, like 15".  The teal/ blue sounds like the Dwarf Neon Blue Gouramis I had. What is a silver dollar fish/ are they round like a discus? I don't think I've ever seen these before. What kind of shark, if its a bala it must only be a baby.  My Dalmation mollies are black and white.. some you could say are white with black polka dots and others seem to be black with white polka dots..... Each one is very different.. I have a couple of whites with very LITTLE black, and a few blacks with very little white..  They are sooooo friendly... I put my fingers in the tank and they instantly come up an start nibbling and kissing. I just LOVE THEM!! I think their friendliness was what attracted me to them to begin with.

          I usally only have 1 mom in there at a time, if more than 1, I will use a net breeder only for a very short duration to try & minimize stress. I only use sponge/foam filters in the fry tank.  What exactly is a sponge/foam filter and how does it differ???   I currently have 58 babies ( platinum mollies and orange calico mollies in one breeding net ( I got the chance to count them as I was switching nets so I could clean the one they were in) and I have 2 pregnant dalmation mollies and 2 pregnant guppies roaming free in the rest of the 10 gallon tank. Once I see or notice them to be getting close to having the babies, I move them to the plastic birthing/breeding contraption.. I am just not sure how big the babies need to be before I can set them free... They are getting big and move fast, but I just dont want to learn this one the hard way...

           

          I spelled it wrong, Anesthetize, but its using a drug that can reduce pain and stress for fish. Just like when humans give birth or have surgery. I have not tried this yet, only read about it so far. I will pass on this one..... To me it is nature!! LOL

           

          With Mollies, Platies and Swordtails, its easy to determine the Males as soon as 3 weeks. I use the 12 gallon as a grow out tank/Bachelor pad for all the boys till they get big enough to sell.  Ut Oh..... I feel another shopping spree coming on... LOL  I am assuming that you keep the 12 gallon heated etc.   I probably should think about a tank for seperating, but my LPS will buy back my mollies and swordtails and guppies and platies too if I have any luck with them. I will ask him if he wants them seperated (just incase)..

           

          You are very welcome, I am glad you are here. I have yet to try taking care of a pond, but after seeing the pics of the outdoor growing ponds for the fry I am going to give it a try in Spring. The fish are still rather new to me as well. I am learning as much as I can, unfortunately its been mostly the hard way through trial & error w/ big fish losses. It's sad when they die, especially when I've watched them being born.

           

          I just LOVE our outdoor pond..... The one we have now is 12'X15", but we are talking about adding a 20'X25" next spring..... We have koi, shubunkins, comets, turtles etc in there... The majority of them will eat out of my fingers.. They are VERY spoiled fish... We also have hundreds of babies... ( comets I am guessing), but I am not sure if they will survive the upstate NY winter.. We will see come March or April... LOL

          Did you get your questions about the Black moors chasing each other answered?

           

          I have not heard ANYTHING about my Question re: the Black Moors... I think I see 3 or 4 eggs on plants, but nothing like when they spawned in the pond...

           

          Thanks so much,

             Kelly 

          Thanks again,

          Aaron

          -----Original Message -----
          From: "~Kelly~"
          Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 18:39:19 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
          To:
          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Hi there, I am new!!/AARON

          Hi Aaron.. Thank you so much for your reply... I am going to answer below in another color.  

          How many and what size aquariums do you have?  We have a 40 gallon mixed community tank that has, 2 each of.. black mollies, platinum mollies, dalmation mollies  and orange calico mollies,  2 kissing fish, 5 guppies ( 3 males and 2 females, my male swordtail, but will soon be getting my 2 females that I lost replaces, 3 platies, a pearl gourami, a teal/blue gouramie and a small silver dollar fish  and hubby has his weird things in there too.. ( a black ghost knife, a dragon eel, 2 crabs and my sons small shark 2-3" long)   We also have a 15 gallon that I keep my 3 black moores in that came out of the outdoor pond for the winter... They were about an inch long when we got them and are now 4-5 inches long..... Also in that tank are a bubble cheek goldfish and a brain goldfish..... They will ALL be going BACK in the pond in the spring and will stay there next winter as we were told to get them out, and then told that because of their size, that they would make it. Soooooo now I have these HUGE dirty fish, that need to have a water change about every 3 days.. <groan>   The last tank that we have is a 10 gallon, that is now home to my babies and 6 VERY pregnant moms.. ( there are 7 baby calico mollies that are a week and 1/2 old) The other 33 from that batch of fry were eaten by the dragon eel when I had the baby net in the community tank right after they were born.... The pregnant ones that I in there are 2 dalmation mollies, 2 platinum mollies, 1 platy and 1 red calico mollie. ( I have the calico Mollie and the platy in birthing nets as they are ready to deliver ( I THINK)  LOL

           

          I think these are the same fish I had when I started breeding, here they usally call them Marbled Mollies.  Are they white with black polka dots!! or vice versa?? as that is what mine are!

           

          I recently got 3 female 'Silver Lyretail Fancy Finned' Mollies. I am guessing these are the same or similar to your Platinum. I had a male Black Lyretail Mollie that may have mated with the marbled mollies before he died last month.  2 of our local pet stores have told me that Mollies like Mollies and it doesn't matter what kind they are.. So I guess with the combo that I have, I am apt to end up with some very pretty and unique Mollies... LOL

          ".The fish I've had for several months are easy for me to tell when they are close to having babies. I guess I've just had more time to get used to their behavior patterens and personalitys. Also they are all pretty much on a set schedule of every 30 days or so. However with these 3 new White/Silver/Platinum Mollies, I didn't even know they were pregnant. The new 3 are only 2/3 or 1/2 the size of the mature Marbled females. I found out when I saw several dozen fry swimming around in the Quarantine tank.   I have started to chart what fish gives birth when and will count the days..... at 25 days or so, I will move them to the Baby/Birthing tank until after they fry are born.

           

          What I do is keep track of when each new batch is born, and about 25 days later I will transfer the expectant Mothers into the Materinty/Fry tank. I use a 10 gallon w/ lots of Java Moss and Hornwort, I like those 2 plants since they grow easy w/ low light and give the fry lots of hiding spaces.   You Don't keep the fry in a birthing net until they are bigger and wont get sucked up by the filter tube thingy???   If Not... dont the other moms eat the fry???

           

           . If possible, you can anesitize them to 'ease the pain' of giving birth.    WOW... what does that mean and how do you do it, or what does it do?? <sorry but I warned you that I was a newbie.. LOL>

           Now I seperate all the fry as soon as I can determine their sex, and wait till they are several months old and full grown before I breed them.   Ohhhh I never thought of that..... Is there a certain age that you will be able to tell??

          Thank you sooooo much for the information and the warm welcome... We have an outdoor pond and I am am good with that info, but the inside fish are very new to me...

           

          Kelly

           

          --

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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 129 From: Heather Date: 12/7/2003
          Subject: Re: Sponge Filter??
          Hi! I use the Oxygen Plus Bio-Filter 11 from
          www.drsfostersmith.com. Here is the description from
          dfs:

          "Oxygen Plus Bio-Filters are made with a hydrophilic,
          high-quality filter material that cultivates
          high-density, nitrifying bacteria. Its multi-stratum
          structure results in a large surface area for
          filtering. Operates silently, using an air pump and
          special air cells that create numerous minute bubbles
          and increased oxygen flow. Prevents young fry from
          becoming trapped in the filter media. Excellent for
          the breeding and spawning of discus, dwarf cichlids,
          guppies, and egg-laying toothcarp."

          I am in the process of raising killifish so I have
          these in all my tanks.

          Hope this helps!

          Heather



          --- Kelly <dreamz64@...> wrote:
          > Hi there... I have read alot about sponges or sponge
          > filters being
          > used in your fry tanks.. Can anyone explain to me
          > what these are..
          > what they do and why they are better for fry tanks??
          >
          >
          > Thank you,
          > Kelly
          >
          >


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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 130 From: Kelly Date: 12/8/2003
          Subject: WOW am I confused!!
          Hi there,

          I have one for you all... I have a 10 gallon tank that I use as my
          nursery. I have had roughly 60 fry in the breeding nets for almost 3
          weeks and decided that it was time to set them free in the tank. I
          also had 3 pregnant moms in there swimming freely until it was their
          time..... HOWEVER.. I was getting ready to put the pregnant moms in
          the nets and let the babies out and I spotting 2 teeny tiny babies
          swimming on the bottom.. What is strange is that ALL 3 of the
          pregnant moms are still fat... I have NO idea which fish had these
          babies, and am guessing that the rest were eaten.

          The pregnant moms are 1 dalmation mollie and 2 guppies. This will be
          my first experience with guppies having fry, Soooooo do guppies still
          look pregnant after they have the babies?? I know that my mollies
          dont.

          The 2 babies could not have been more than a couple of hours old..
          barely making it off the bottom of the tank.. They are very small,
          but no smaller than some mollies I have had. Both of my guppies
          still have that dark spot on their belly, and the molly still has a
          big belly..... HELP!! I have NO idea who's babies these are or what
          mom can be put back in my community tank...

          Thanks so much in advance for ANY idea's, thoughts, opinions etc.

          Kelly
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 131 From: Heather Date: 12/8/2003
          Subject: Re: WOW am I confused!!
          Hi again! I once had a guppy that gave birth 3 times
          in one week. I, like you, couldn't figure out which
          pregnant fish had given birth and all still looked
          pregnant with the large belly and dark patch. I put
          all 4 females in separate nets and watched them.
          After one guppy gave birth, I removed the fry and left
          her in the net to recover. The next day, I checked
          and there were more fry. I did the same process and
          within 2 days (she was really weak so I left her in
          the net so others wouldn't take advantage), she had
          more. Given, there were only about 3 fry each time,
          but.... If possible, I would leave all pregnant fish
          in the tank.

          Good luck!
          Heather

          --- Kelly <dreamz64@...> wrote:
          > Hi there,
          >
          > I have one for you all... I have a 10 gallon tank
          > that I use as my
          > nursery. I have had roughly 60 fry in the breeding
          > nets for almost 3
          > weeks and decided that it was time to set them free
          > in the tank. I
          > also had 3 pregnant moms in there swimming freely
          > until it was their
          > time..... HOWEVER.. I was getting ready to put the
          > pregnant moms in
          > the nets and let the babies out and I spotting 2
          > teeny tiny babies
          > swimming on the bottom.. What is strange is that ALL
          > 3 of the
          > pregnant moms are still fat... I have NO idea which
          > fish had these
          > babies, and am guessing that the rest were eaten.
          >
          > The pregnant moms are 1 dalmation mollie and 2
          > guppies. This will be
          > my first experience with guppies having fry, Soooooo
          > do guppies still
          > look pregnant after they have the babies?? I know
          > that my mollies
          > dont.
          >
          > The 2 babies could not have been more than a couple
          > of hours old..
          > barely making it off the bottom of the tank.. They
          > are very small,
          > but no smaller than some mollies I have had. Both
          > of my guppies
          > still have that dark spot on their belly, and the
          > molly still has a
          > big belly..... HELP!! I have NO idea who's babies
          > these are or what
          > mom can be put back in my community tank...
          >
          > Thanks so much in advance for ANY idea's, thoughts,
          > opinions etc.
          >
          > Kelly
          >
          >


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          New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
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          Group: AquaticLife Message: 132 From: Kelly Date: 12/8/2003
          Subject: Missing an eye!
          Ok. Its Only ME with my strange questions...

          I just noticed that one of my black mollies is missing an eye! It is
          acting perfectly normal.. swimming around, eating etc. Is there a
          disease that would make his eye just fall out? Or would something
          have to of eaten it out? It did have BOTH eyes last night....

          I am a bit concerned as I do have 2 black mollies, one male
          swordtail, 2 male dalmation mollies ( the females are both pregant
          and have been moved to another tank) and 1 male platty. NONE of these
          have mates yet and I notice they have been picking on my silver
          dollar fish and 2 gourami's.

          Would they do this to each other? Should I get females for these
          males ASAP? Or is my husbands dragon eel being aggressive at night??
          It is pretty still during the day, but seems to raise holy heck
          starting around 10pm at night!!

          Thanks so much! You have all been so helpful with my other questions!
          Kelly
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 133 From: M Reed Enterprises Date: 12/8/2003
          Subject: Re: Missing an eye!
          The missing eye could have happened many ways. The eel is suspect number
          one, however.

          Aggressive fish that are active at night should not be kept with fishes that
          are helpless in the dark.

          Mike
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Kelly" <dreamz64@...>
          To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 10:28 AM
          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Missing an eye!


          > Ok. Its Only ME with my strange questions...
          >
          > I just noticed that one of my black mollies is missing an eye! It is
          > acting perfectly normal.. swimming around, eating etc. Is there a
          > disease that would make his eye just fall out? Or would something
          > have to of eaten it out? It did have BOTH eyes last night....
          >
          > I am a bit concerned as I do have 2 black mollies, one male
          > swordtail, 2 male dalmation mollies ( the females are both pregant
          > and have been moved to another tank) and 1 male platty. NONE of these
          > have mates yet and I notice they have been picking on my silver
          > dollar fish and 2 gourami's.
          >
          > Would they do this to each other? Should I get females for these
          > males ASAP? Or is my husbands dragon eel being aggressive at night??
          > It is pretty still during the day, but seems to raise holy heck
          > starting around 10pm at night!!
          >
          > Thanks so much! You have all been so helpful with my other questions!
          > Kelly
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 134 From: ~Kelly~ Date: 12/8/2003
          Subject: Re: Missing an eye!
           
           Hi Mike,
              
           
            I finally got real baffled and called my local pet store.. The owner there is REALLY helpful, and since is planning to buy my fry when they grow he is MORE than happy to help me when he has the time.
           
           He also thought the eel could be the culprit, but because no other fish have gotten hurt or disappeared he feels that it is most likely all of my males ( without females) in the tank... He said that without a woman they will get aggressive and with so many men and not enough women.. well.. You know how that goes... LOL
           
            He told me to come up tonight and he is going to GIVE me the females to go with the males... He is trying to get it so he is getting ALOT of his "everyday" popular fish ( Mollies, guppies, swordtails and platties)  from local breeders, and is willing to help out because he is planning on buying back my fry when they are big enough...... I thought that was super nice if him!!
           
           However I WILL be keeping an eye on the eel!!   It is my husbands and the thing gives me the creeps anyways... LOL
           
          thanks so much,
           Kelly
          -------Original Message-------
           
          Date: 12/08/2003 01:47:01 PM
          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Missing an eye!
           
          The missing eye could have happened many ways. The eel is suspect number
          one, however.

          Aggressive fish that are active at night should not be kept with fishes that
          are helpless in the dark.

          Mike
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Kelly" <dreamz64@...>
          To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 10:28 AM
          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Missing an eye!


          > Ok. Its Only ME with my strange questions...
          >
          > I just noticed that one of my black mollies is missing an eye! It is
          > acting perfectly normal.. swimming around, eating etc.  Is there a
          > disease that would make his eye just fall out? Or would something
          > have to of eaten it out? It did have BOTH eyes last night....
          >
          > I am a bit concerned as I do have 2 black mollies, one male
          > swordtail, 2 male dalmation mollies ( the females are both pregant
          > and have been moved to another tank) and 1 male platty. NONE of these
          > have mates yet and I notice they have been picking on my silver
          > dollar fish and 2 gourami's.
          >
          > Would they do this to each other? Should I get females for these
          > males ASAP?  Or is my husbands dragon eel being aggressive at night??
          > It is pretty still during the day, but seems to raise holy heck
          > starting around 10pm at night!!
          >
          > Thanks so much! You have all been so helpful with my other questions!
          > Kelly
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >



          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
           
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 135 From: Aileen Pettigrew Date: 12/8/2003
          Subject: Re: WOW am I confused!!
          On Occasion I believe fish can have the odd premature birth... could be
          that?


          Aileen

          On 8 Dec 2003, at 14:21, Heather wrote:

          > Hi again!  I once had a guppy that gave birth 3 times
          > in one week.  I, like you, couldn't figure out which
          > pregnant fish had given birth and all still looked
          > pregnant with the large belly and dark patch.  I put
          > all 4 females in separate nets and watched them.
          > After one guppy gave birth, I removed the fry and left
          > her in the net to recover.  The next day, I checked
          > and there were more fry.  I did the same process and
          > within 2 days (she was really weak so I left her in
          > the net so others wouldn't take advantage), she had
          > more.  Given, there were only about 3 fry each time,
          > but.... If possible, I would leave all pregnant fish
          > in the tank.
          >
          > Good luck!
          > Heather
          >
          > --- Kelly <dreamz64@...> wrote:
          > > Hi there,
          > >
          > > I have one for you all... I have a 10 gallon tank
          > > that I use as my
          > > nursery.  I have had roughly 60 fry in the breeding
          > > nets for almost 3
          > > weeks and decided that it was time to set them free
          > > in the tank. I
          > > also had 3 pregnant moms in there swimming freely
          > > until it was their
          > > time..... HOWEVER.. I was getting ready to put the
          > > pregnant moms in
          > > the nets and let the babies out and I spotting 2
          > > teeny tiny babies
          > > swimming on the bottom.. What is strange is that ALL
          > > 3 of the
          > > pregnant moms are still fat... I have NO idea which
          > > fish had these
          > > babies, and am guessing that the rest were eaten. 
          > >
          > > The pregnant moms are 1 dalmation mollie and 2
          > > guppies.  This will be
          > > my first experience with guppies having fry, Soooooo
          > > do guppies still
          > > look pregnant after they have the babies??  I know
          > > that my mollies
          > > dont. 
          > >
          > > The 2 babies could not have been more than a couple
          > > of hours old..
          > > barely making it off the bottom of the tank.. They
          > > are very small,
          > > but no smaller than some mollies I have had.  Both
          > > of my guppies
          > > still have that dark spot on their belly, and the
          > > molly still has a
          > > big belly..... HELP!!   I have NO idea who's babies
          > > these are or what
          > > mom can be put back in my community tank...
          > >
          > > Thanks so much in advance for ANY idea's, thoughts,
          > > opinions etc.
          > >
          > > Kelly
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          > __________________________________
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          >
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 136 From: M Reed Enterprises Date: 12/8/2003
          Subject: Re: Missing an eye!
          Yeah, I would bet it was the eel. Second choice is the swordtail male. Third is disease (unlikely).
           
          mike
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: ~Kelly~
          Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 11:57 AM
          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Missing an eye!

           
           Hi Mike,
              
           
            I finally got real baffled and called my local pet store.. The owner there is REALLY helpful, and since is planning to buy my fry when they grow he is MORE than happy to help me when he has the time.
           
           He also thought the eel could be the culprit, but because no other fish have gotten hurt or disappeared he feels that it is most likely all of my males ( without females) in the tank... He said that without a woman they will get aggressive and with so many men and not enough women.. well.. You know how that goes... LOL
           
            He told me to come up tonight and he is going to GIVE me the females to go with the males... He is trying to get it so he is getting ALOT of his "everyday" popular fish ( Mollies, guppies, swordtails and platties)  from local breeders, and is willing to help out because he is planning on buying back my fry when they are big enough...... I thought that was super nice if him!!
           
           However I WILL be keeping an eye on the eel!!   It is my husbands and the thing gives me the creeps anyways... LOL
           
          thanks so much,
           Kelly
          -------Original Message-------
           
          Date: 12/08/2003 01:47:01 PM
          Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Missing an eye!
           
          The missing eye could have happened many ways. The eel is suspect number
          one, however.

          Aggressive fish that are active at night should not be kept with fishes that
          are helpless in the dark.

          Mike
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Kelly" <dreamz64@...>
          To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 10:28 AM
          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Missing an eye!


          > Ok. Its Only ME with my strange questions...
          >
          > I just noticed that one of my black mollies is missing an eye! It is
          > acting perfectly normal.. swimming around, eating etc.  Is there a
          > disease that would make his eye just fall out? Or would something
          > have to of eaten it out? It did have BOTH eyes last night....
          >
          > I am a bit concerned as I do have 2 black mollies, one male
          > swordtail, 2 male dalmation mollies ( the females are both pregant
          > and have been moved to another tank) and 1 male platty. NONE of these
          > have mates yet and I notice they have been picking on my silver
          > dollar fish and 2 gourami's.
          >
          > Would they do this to each other? Should I get females for these
          > males ASAP?  Or is my husbands dragon eel being aggressive at night??
          > It is pretty still during the day, but seems to raise holy heck
          > starting around 10pm at night!!
          >
          > Thanks so much! You have all been so helpful with my other questions!
          > Kelly
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >



          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
           


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          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 137 From: Dom Date: 12/8/2003
          Subject: Re: Missing an eye!
          Since other fishes inside the tank are healthy. I don't think they
          attacking by any disease. There is a disease called Pop Eyes. The
          eyes of fish will turn to white and then pop out. The eyes will
          totally drop after 1-2 week time if you didnt cure it correctly. Then
          the fish will become blind.

          But from what you said, I believe is Swordfish or eel attacked her.

          In my guppy, black moll and neon tetra community tank. I let them
          breeding and deliver the babies themselves. I won't seperate them in
          the breeding net. coz this will stress them and will caused the
          female dead or can't deliver the baby smoothly.

          The community tank with few black color rock and there are Anubias
          Nanas (Plant which doesn't need strong CO2, but light). All the fry
          will hiding after they were just appart from their mother stomach. I
          saw my guppy and black moll fry getting along very well.

          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "M Reed
          Enterprises" <mreed@m...> wrote:
          > Yeah, I would bet it was the eel. Second choice is the swordtail
          male. Third is disease (unlikely).
          >
          > mike
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: ~Kelly~
          > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 11:57 AM
          > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Missing an eye!
          >
          >
          >
          > Hi Mike,
          >
          >
          > I finally got real baffled and called my local pet
          store.. The owner there is REALLY helpful, and since is planning to
          buy my fry when they grow he is MORE than happy to help me when he
          has the time.
          >
          > He also thought the eel could be the culprit, but because
          no other fish have gotten hurt or disappeared he feels that it is
          most likely all of my males ( without females) in the tank... He said
          that without a woman they will get aggressive and with so many men
          and not enough women.. well.. You know how that goes... LOL
          >
          > He told me to come up tonight and he is going to GIVE me
          the females to go with the males... He is trying to get it so he is
          getting ALOT of his "everyday" popular fish ( Mollies, guppies,
          swordtails and platties) from local breeders, and is willing to help
          out because he is planning on buying back my fry when they are big
          enough...... I thought that was super nice if him!!
          >
          > However I WILL be keeping an eye on the eel!! It is my
          husbands and the thing gives me the creeps anyways... LOL
          >
          > thanks so much,
          > Kelly
          > -------Original Message-------
          >
          > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
          > Date: 12/08/2003 01:47:01 PM
          > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Missing an
          eye!
          >
          > The missing eye could have happened many ways. The eel is
          suspect number
          > one, however.
          >
          > Aggressive fish that are active at night should not be kept
          with fishes that
          > are helpless in the dark.
          >
          > Mike
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: "Kelly" <dreamz64@r...>
          > To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 10:28 AM
          > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Missing an eye!
          >
          >
          > > Ok. Its Only ME with my strange questions...
          > >
          > > I just noticed that one of my black mollies is missing an
          eye! It is
          > > acting perfectly normal.. swimming around, eating etc.
          Is there a
          > > disease that would make his eye just fall out? Or would
          something
          > > have to of eaten it out? It did have BOTH eyes last
          night....
          > >
          > > I am a bit concerned as I do have 2 black mollies, one
          male
          > > swordtail, 2 male dalmation mollies ( the females are
          both pregant
          > > and have been moved to another tank) and 1 male platty.
          NONE of these
          > > have mates yet and I notice they have been picking on my
          silver
          > > dollar fish and 2 gourami's.
          > >
          > > Would they do this to each other? Should I get females
          for these
          > > males ASAP? Or is my husbands dragon eel being
          aggressive at night??
          > > It is pretty still during the day, but seems to raise
          holy heck
          > > starting around 10pm at night!!
          > >
          > > Thanks so much! You have all been so helpful with my
          other questions!
          > > Kelly
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
          Service.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          > ADVERTISEMENT
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
          Service.
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 138 From: Dom Date: 12/8/2003
          Subject: Re: Sponge Filter??
          Hi Kelly,

          Try to use www.altavista.com to search for "sponge filter". For sure
          you will see lot of URLs with the sample and explanation of sponge
          filter.

          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, Heather
          <heather_18@r...> wrote:
          > Hi! I use the Oxygen Plus Bio-Filter 11 from
          > www.drsfostersmith.com. Here is the description from
          > dfs:
          >
          > "Oxygen Plus Bio-Filters are made with a hydrophilic,
          > high-quality filter material that cultivates
          > high-density, nitrifying bacteria. Its multi-stratum
          > structure results in a large surface area for
          > filtering. Operates silently, using an air pump and
          > special air cells that create numerous minute bubbles
          > and increased oxygen flow. Prevents young fry from
          > becoming trapped in the filter media. Excellent for
          > the breeding and spawning of discus, dwarf cichlids,
          > guppies, and egg-laying toothcarp."
          >
          > I am in the process of raising killifish so I have
          > these in all my tanks.
          >
          > Hope this helps!
          >
          > Heather
          >
          >
          >
          > --- Kelly <dreamz64@r...> wrote:
          > > Hi there... I have read alot about sponges or sponge
          > > filters being
          > > used in your fry tanks.. Can anyone explain to me
          > > what these are..
          > > what they do and why they are better for fry tanks??
          > >
          > >
          > > Thank you,
          > > Kelly
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          > __________________________________
          > Do you Yahoo!?
          > New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
          > http://photos.yahoo.com/
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 139 From: ~Kelly~ Date: 12/9/2003
          Subject: Re: Missing an eye!
          Hi Dom,
           
               Thanks so much for the reply...... NOPE.. Just the one fish is missing one eye and they were perfectly healthy looking before yesterday morning... I am going to try cross my fingers and hope that the pet store owner that I deal with is right and take him up on his offer to supply me with enough females to keep the males from getting aggressive.
           
          I have no choice but to seperate my pregnant moms from the community tank as my husbands few fish are NOT fish to be trusted with Guppies, Mollies, platties and swordfish fry.  He has a Black Ghost knife fish, the dragon Eel, 2 crabs, and 2 danio's that I do NOT trust with the babies... I also have had my mollies eat another mollies babies as well as the guppy babies...
           
          After the holidays I want to get some live plants like you mentioned and put those in the fry /maternity tank so I don't have to use the nets.We are also planning on getting 2 more tanks after the holidays. One just for my guppies and another for just my dalmation, platinum and black mollies... I sooooo want a black and white tank with just a splash of red.. I saw one in a catalog and it was goreous!!!
           
          Have a great day!
          Kelly
           
           
          -------Original Message-------
           
          Date: 12/08/2003 09:18:33 PM
          Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Missing an eye!
           
          Since other fishes inside the tank are healthy. I don't think they
          attacking by any disease. There is a disease called Pop Eyes. The
          eyes of fish will turn to white and then pop out. The eyes will
          totally drop after 1-2 week time if you didnt cure it correctly. Then
          the fish will become blind.

          But from what you said, I believe is Swordfish or eel attacked her.

          In my guppy, black moll and neon tetra community tank. I let them
          breeding and deliver the babies themselves. I won't seperate them in
          the breeding net. coz this will stress them and will caused the
          female dead or can't deliver the baby smoothly.

          The community tank with few black color rock and there are Anubias
          Nanas (Plant which doesn't need strong CO2, but light). All the fry
          will hiding after they were just appart from their mother stomach. I
          saw my guppy and black moll fry getting along very well.

          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "M Reed
          Enterprises" <mreed@m...> wrote:
          > Yeah, I would bet it was the eel. Second choice is the swordtail
          male. Third is disease (unlikely).
          >
          > mike
          >   ----- Original Message -----
          >   From: ~Kelly~
          >   To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
          >   Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 11:57 AM
          >   Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Missing an eye!
          >
          >
          >
          >          Hi Mike,
          >             
          >
          >           I finally got real baffled and called my local pet
          store.. The owner there is REALLY helpful, and since is planning to
          buy my fry when they grow he is MORE than happy to help me when he
          has the time.
          >
          >          He also thought the eel could be the culprit, but because
          no other fish have gotten hurt or disappeared he feels that it is
          most likely all of my males ( without females) in the tank... He said
          that without a woman they will get aggressive and with so many men
          and not enough women.. well.. You know how that goes... LOL
          >
          >           He told me to come up tonight and he is going to GIVE me
          the females to go with the males... He is trying to get it so he is
          getting ALOT of his "everyday" popular fish ( Mollies, guppies,
          swordtails and platties)  from local breeders, and is willing to help
          out because he is planning on buying back my fry when they are big
          enough...... I thought that was super nice if him!!
          >
          >          However I WILL be keeping an eye on the eel!!   It is my
          husbands and the thing gives me the creeps anyways... LOL
          >
          >         thanks so much,
          >          Kelly
          >         -------Original Message-------
          >
          >         From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
          >         Date: 12/08/2003 01:47:01 PM
          >         To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
          >         Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Missing an
          eye!
          >
          >         The missing eye could have happened many ways. The eel is
          suspect number
          >         one, however.
          >
          >         Aggressive fish that are active at night should not be kept
          with fishes that
          >         are helpless in the dark.
          >
          >         Mike
          >         ----- Original Message -----
          >         From: "Kelly" <dreamz64@r...>
          >         To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
          >         Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 10:28 AM
          >         Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Missing an eye!
          >
          >
          >         > Ok. Its Only ME with my strange questions...
          >         >
          >         > I just noticed that one of my black mollies is missing an
          eye! It is
          >         > acting perfectly normal.. swimming around, eating etc. 
          Is there a
          >         > disease that would make his eye just fall out? Or would
          something
          >         > have to of eaten it out? It did have BOTH eyes last
          night....
          >         >
          >         > I am a bit concerned as I do have 2 black mollies, one
          male
          >         > swordtail, 2 male dalmation mollies ( the females are
          both pregant
          >         > and have been moved to another tank) and 1 male platty.
          NONE of these
          >         > have mates yet and I notice they have been picking on my
          silver
          >         > dollar fish and 2 gourami's.
          >         >
          >         > Would they do this to each other? Should I get females
          for these
          >         > males ASAP?  Or is my husbands dragon eel being
          aggressive at night??
          >         > It is pretty still during the day, but seems to raise
          holy heck
          >         > starting around 10pm at night!!
          >         >
          >         > Thanks so much! You have all been so helpful with my
          other questions!
          >         > Kelly
          >         >
          >         >
          >         >
          >         >
          >         > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          >         > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >         >
          >         >
          >         >
          >         > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
          http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >         >
          >         >
          >
          >
          >
          >         To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          >         FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          >
          >         Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
          Service.
          >
          >       
          >               
          >       
          >
          >         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          >               ADVERTISEMENT
          >             
          >       
          >       
          >
          >   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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          >
          >
          >
          >   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
          Service.



          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
           
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 140 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 12/9/2003
          Subject: Re: Missing an eye!
          --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Dom"
          <itssg@y...> wrote:
          > Since other fishes inside the tank are healthy. I don't think they
          > attacking by any disease. There is a disease called Pop Eyes. The
          > eyes of fish will turn to white and then pop out. The eyes will
          > totally drop after 1-2 week time if you didnt cure it correctly. Then
          > the fish will become blind.
          >

          When a fish has Pop eye, their eyes do not actually pop out. The
          affected eye bulges and can turn white, but that's as far as it goes.
          It is a symptom of a bacterial infection.

          If a fish's eye is missing overnight, it's not from a disease.
          Something got it.

          - Trevor
          Group: AquaticLife Message: 141 From: Aaron Martin Date: 12/9/2003
          Subject: Re: Freshwater Crabs/(non-fish tank)
          Attachments :

            Hi Kelly,

            How big are the crabs? I've not seen them here at the stores yet. I would think they would prey on the smaller and/or weaker fish the same way large shrimp, crawdads/crayfish and lobsters do. Have the crabs ever been aggressive towards any of the fish? What do they eat? What kind are they?

            I'm very interested as I want to start a large planted (non-fish) tank w/ very few regular fish, only a variety of algae eaters - dwarf clown plecos, otos, golden, SAE's and maybee Chinese. I'm wanting to stock it w/ more unusal creatures like somebody was describing a tank w/out a filter using only freshwater mussels and plants to keep the water clean. I'd like to have lots of Malaysian Trumpet Snails (MTS), variety of other small snails and some apple snails, a variety of shrimp, a BLUE lobster, African Dwarf Frogs, tadpoles, a few loaches that burrow into the soil/substrate, mussels and clams, and the crabs if I can find all those critters. I've even heard of people keeping LEECHES, they sound interesting. Can newts or other (amphibians?) be kept in an aquarium? I'd like to have as much diversity as possible assuming they are all able to get along together.

            Any other unusal or not so common aquatic life anybody can think of that would be interesting to have in a somewhat odd mixed tank?

            Annybody ever heard of a TRIOPS? It is advertised in the Dr's Foster & Smith  catalog on page 93. Supposed to hatch them from eggs and get up to 3". Sounds like it might be the newest version of the 'sea-monkey'. Here is link that might get you more info;

            http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?CatalogCustomerNum=&catalognum=&pCatId=4548&prodId=8553&catId=966782&siteid=6

            * TRIOPS - living creatures from the dinosaur era

            They're not cute or cuddly but they've been around since the dinosaur age, so they must be doing something right! Just add water to the Triops eggs and they will hatch that day! Over the next month, watch them grow an astonishing 1-3 inches. The Triops Kit contains everything you need to bring science and a pre-historic era alive in your own home. You'll receive a plastic growing tank with lid, thermometer, Triops eggs and food, and an illustrated booklet to guide you through the life of your prehistoric pet. (picture attached)

             


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "~Kelly~"
            Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 06:56:28 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
            To:
            Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Missing an eye!

            Hi Dom,
             
                 Thanks so much for the reply...... NOPE.. Just the one fish is missing one eye and they were perfectly healthy looking before yesterday morning... I am going to try cross my fingers and hope that the pet store owner that I deal with is right and take him up on his offer to supply me with enough females to keep the males from getting aggressive.
             
            I have no choice but to seperate my pregnant moms from the community tank as my husbands few fish are NOT fish to be trusted with Guppies, Mollies, platties and swordfish fry.  He has a Black Ghost knife fish, the dragon Eel, 2 crabs, and 2 danio's that I do NOT trust with the babies... I also have had my mollies eat another mollies babies as well as the guppy babies...
             
            After the holidays I want to get some live plants like you mentioned and put those in the fry /maternity tank so I don't have to use the nets.We are also planning on getting 2 more tanks after the holidays. One just for my guppies and another for just my dalmation, platinum and black mollies... I sooooo want a black and white tank with just a splash of red.. I saw one in a catalog and it was goreous!!!
             
            Have a great day!
            Kelly
             
             
            -------Original Message-------
             
            Date: 12/08/2003 09:18:33 PM
            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Missing an eye!
             
            Since other fishes inside the tank are healthy. I don't think they
            attacking by any disease. There is a disease called Pop Eyes. The
            eyes of fish will turn to white and then pop out. The eyes will
            totally drop after 1-2 week time if you didnt cure it correctly. Then
            the fish will become blind.

            But from what you said, I believe is Swordfish or eel attacked her.

            In my guppy, black moll and neon tetra community tank. I let them
            breeding and deliver the babies themselves. I won't seperate them in
            the breeding net. coz this will stress them and will caused the
            female dead or can't deliver the baby smoothly.

            The community tank with few black color rock and there are Anubias
            Nanas (Plant which doesn't need strong CO2, but light). All the fry
            will hiding after they were just appart from their mother stomach. I
            saw my guppy and black moll fry getting along very well.

            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishA quarium@yahoogroups.com, "M Reed
            Enterprises" wrote:
            > Yeah, I would bet it was the eel. Second choice is the swordtail
            male. Third is disease (unlikely).
            >
            > mike
            >   ----- Original Message -----
            >   From: ~Kelly~
            >   To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
            >   Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 11:57 AM
            >   Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Missing an eye!
            >
            >
            >
            >          Hi Mike,
            >             
            >
            >           I finally got real baffled and called my local pet
            store.. The owner there is REALLY helpful, and since is planning to
            buy my fry when they grow he is MORE than happy to help me when he
            has the time.
            &g t ;
            >          He also thought the eel could be the culprit, but because
            no other fish have gotten hurt or disappeared he feels that it is
            most likely all of my males ( without females) in the tank... He said
            that without a woman they will get aggressive and with so many men
            and not enough women.. well.. You know how that goes... LOL
            >
            >           He told me to come up tonight and he is going to GIVE me
            the females to go with the males... He is trying to get it so he is
            getting ALOT of his "everyday" popular fish ( Mollies, guppies,
            swordtails and platties)  from local breeders, and is willing to help
            out because he is planning on buying back my fry when they are big
            enough...... I thought that was super nice if him!!
            >
            >          However I WILL be keeping an eye on the eel!!   It is my
            husbands and the thing gives me the creeps anyways... LOL
            >
            >         thanks so much,
            >          Kelly
            >         -------Original Message-------
            >
            >         From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
            >         Date: 12/08/2003 01:47:01 PM
            >         To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
            >         Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Missing an
            eye!
            >
            >         The missing eye could have happened many ways. The eel is
            suspect number
            >         one, however.
            >
            > ;         Aggressive fish that are active at night should not be kept
            with fishes that
            >         are helpless in the dark.
            >
            >         Mike
            >         ----- Original Message -----
            >         From: "Kelly"
            >         To:
            >         Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 10:28 AM
            >         Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Missing an eye!
            >
            >
            >         > Ok. Its Only ME with my strange questions...
            >         >
            > &nbs p;&nbs p;      > I just noticed that one of my black mollies is missing an
            eye! It is
            >         > acting perfectly normal.. swimming around, eating etc. 
            Is there a
            >         > disease that would make his eye just fall out? Or would
            something
            >         > have to of eaten it out? It did have BOTH eyes last
            night....
            >         >
            >         > I am a bit concerned as I do have 2 black mollies, one
            male
            >         > swordtail, 2 male dalmation mollies ( the females are
            both pregant
            >         > and have been moved to another tank) and 1 male platty.
            NONE of these
            >    ;&nb sp;     > have mates yet and I notice they have been picking on my
            silver
            >         > dollar fish and 2 gourami's.
            >         >
            >         > Would they do this to each other? Should I get females
            for these
            >         > males ASAP?  Or is my husbands dragon eel being
            aggressive at night??
            >         > It is pretty still during the day, but seems to raise
            holy heck
            >         > starting around 10pm at night!!
            >         >
            >         > Thanks so much! You have all been so helpful with my
            other questions!
            >      &n bsp;  > Kelly
            >         >
            >         >
            >         >
            >         >
            >         > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            >         > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >         >
            >         >
            >         >
            >         > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >         >
            >         > < BR>>
            >
            >
            >         To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            >         FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            >
            >
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            Service.
            >
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            Aaron R. Martin, cmt
            
            (925) 337-2340
            
            Livermore CA (San Francisco Bay Area)
            
             
            
            got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!
            
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
            
            stop by and see ~ membership is free!
            
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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 142 From: ~Kelly~ Date: 12/9/2003
            Subject: Re: Freshwater Crabs/(non-fish tank)
             
             Hi Aaron,
             
            They are called gold claw crabs... They are small, just 1/2" to 3/4 of an inch. The seem to find plenty to eat on the plants and in the gravel.   They are of course a couple more creepy things that my husband brings home because they look "cool" LOL     
             
            Our local pet store has a few in almost all of their tropical tanks...
             
            They stay in the water most of the time, but do come up on occasion for air which creeps me right out.  They can climb either the cylicone in the corners or up tall plants and then they get to the top and sit there getting air... quite often I find them up near the filter... and then after a few hours they are back in the water for a few hours.  They are interesting to watch, but they dont do much besides crawl around the bottom shoving things in their mouths.. LOL
             
            sorry I was of littl to no help....
             
            Kelly
            -------Original Message-------
             
            Date: 12/09/2003 01:36:34 PM
            Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Freshwater Crabs/(non-fish tank)
             

            Hi Kelly,

            How big are the crabs? I've not seen them here at the stores yet. I would think they would prey on the smaller and/or weaker fish the same way large shrimp, crawdads/crayfish and lobsters do. Have the crabs ever been aggressive towards any of the fish? What do they eat? What kind are they?

            I'm very interested as I want to start a large planted (non-fish) tank w/ very few regular fish, only a variety of algae eaters - dwarf clown plecos, otos, golden, SAE's and maybee Chinese. I'm wanting to stock it w/ more unusal creatures like somebody was describing a tank w/out a filter using only freshwater mussels and plants to keep the water clean. I'd like to have lots of Malaysian Trumpet Snails (MTS), variety of other small snails and some apple snails, a variety of shrimp, a BLUE lobster, African Dwarf Frogs, tadpoles, a few loaches that burrow into the soil/substrate, mussels and clams, and the crabs if I can find all those critters. I've even heard of people keeping LEECHES, they sound interesting. Can newts or other (amphibians?) be kept in an aquarium? I'd like to have as much diversity as possible assuming they are all able to get along together.

            Any other unusal or not so common aquatic life anybody can think of that would be interesting to have in a somewhat odd mixed tank?

            Annybody ever heard of a TRIOPS? It is advertised in the Dr's Foster & Smith  catalog on page 93. Supposed to hatch them from eggs and get up to 3". Sounds like it might be the newest version of the 'sea-monkey'. Here is link that might get you more info;

            http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?CatalogCustomerNum=&catalognum=&pCatId=4548&prodId=8553&catId=966782&siteid=6

            * TRIOPS - living creatures from the dinosaur era

            They're not cute or cuddly but they've been around since the dinosaur age, so they must be doing something right! Just add water to the Triops eggs and they will hatch that day! Over the next month, watch them grow an astonishing 1-3 inches. The Triops Kit contains everything you need to bring science and a pre-historic era alive in your own home. You'll receive a plastic growing tank with lid, thermometer, Triops eggs and food, and an illustrated booklet to guide you through the life of your prehistoric pet. (picture attached)

             


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "~Kelly~"
            Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 06:56:28 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
            To:
            Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Missing an eye!

            Hi Dom,
             
                 Thanks so much for the reply...... NOPE.. Just the one fish is missing one eye and they were perfectly healthy looking before yesterday morning... I am going to try cross my fingers and hope that the pet store owner that I deal with is right and take him up on his offer to supply me with enough females to keep the males from getting aggressive.
             
            I have no choice but to seperate my pregnant moms from the community tank as my husbands few fish are NOT fish to be trusted with Guppies, Mollies, platties and swordfish fry.  He has a Black Ghost knife fish, the dragon Eel, 2 crabs, and 2 danio's that I do NOT trust with the babies... I also have had my mollies eat another mollies babies as well as the guppy babies...
             
            After the holidays I want to get some live plants like you mentioned and put those in the fry /maternity tank so I don't have to use the nets.We are also planning on getting 2 more tanks after the holidays. One just for my guppies and another for just my dalmation, platinum and black mollies... I sooooo want a black and white tank with just a splash of red.. I saw one in a catalog and it was goreous!!!
             
            Have a great day!
            Kelly
             
             
            -------Original Message-------
             
            Date: 12/08/2003 09:18:33 PM
            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Missing an eye!
             
            Since other fishes inside the tank are healthy. I don't think they
            attacking by any disease. There is a disease called Pop Eyes. The
            eyes of fish will turn to white and then pop out. The eyes will
            totally drop after 1-2 week time if you didnt cure it correctly. Then
            the fish will become blind.

            But from what you said, I believe is Swordfish or eel attacked her.

            In my guppy, black moll and neon tetra community tank. I let them
            breeding and deliver the babies themselves. I won't seperate them in
            the breeding net. coz this will stress them and will caused the
            female dead or can't deliver the baby smoothly.

            The community tank with few black color rock and there are Anubias
            Nanas (Plant which doesn't need strong CO2, but light). All the fry
            will hiding after they were just appart from their mother stomach. I
            saw my guppy and black moll fry getting along very well.

            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishA quarium@yahoogroups.com, "M Reed
            Enterprises" wrote:
            > Yeah, I would bet it was the eel. Second choice is the swordtail
            male. Third is disease (unlikely).
            >
            > mike
            >   ----- Original Message -----
            >   From: ~Kelly~
            >   To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
            >   Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 11:57 AM
            >   Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Missing an eye!
            >
            >
            >
            >          Hi Mike,
            >             
            >
            >           I finally got real baffled and called my local pet
            store.. The owner there is REALLY helpful, and since is planning to
            buy my fry when they grow he is MORE than happy to help me when he
            has the time.
            &g t ;
            >          He also thought the eel could be the culprit, but because
            no other fish have gotten hurt or disappeared he feels that it is
            most likely all of my males ( without females) in the tank... He said
            that without a woman they will get aggressive and with so many men
            and not enough women.. well.. You know how that goes... LOL
            >
            >           He told me to come up tonight and he is going to GIVE me
            the females to go with the males... He is trying to get it so he is
            getting ALOT of his "everyday" popular fish ( Mollies, guppies,
            swordtails and platties)  from local breeders, and is willing to help
            out because he is planning on buying back my fry when they are big
            enough...... I thought that was super nice if him!!
            >
            >          However I WILL be keeping an eye on the eel!!   It is my
            husbands and the thing gives me the creeps anyways... LOL
            >
            >         thanks so much,
            >          Kelly
            >         -------Original Message-------
            >
            >         From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
            >         Date: 12/08/2003 01:47:01 PM
            >         To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
            >         Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Missing an
            eye!
            >
            >         The missing eye could have happened many ways. The eel is
            suspect number
            >         one, however.
            >
            > ;         Aggressive fish that are active at night should not be kept
            with fishes that
            >         are helpless in the dark.
            >
            >         Mike
            >         ----- Original Message -----
            >         From: "Kelly"
            >         To:
            >         Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 10:28 AM
            >         Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Missing an eye!
            >
            >
            >         > Ok. Its Only ME with my strange questions...
            >         >
            > &nbs p;&nbs p;      > I just noticed that one of my black mollies is missing an
            eye! It is
            >         > acting perfectly normal.. swimming around, eating etc. 
            Is there a
            >         > disease that would make his eye just fall out? Or would
            something
            >         > have to of eaten it out? It did have BOTH eyes last
            night....
            >         >
            >         > I am a bit concerned as I do have 2 black mollies, one
            male
            >         > swordtail, 2 male dalmation mollies ( the females are
            both pregant
            >         > and have been moved to another tank) and 1 male platty.
            NONE of these
            >    ;&nb sp;     > have mates yet and I notice they have been picking on my
            silver
            >         > dollar fish and 2 gourami's.
            >         >
            >         > Would they do this to each other? Should I get females
            for these
            >         > males ASAP?  Or is my husbands dragon eel being
            aggressive at night??
            >         > It is pretty still during the day, but seems to raise
            holy heck
            >         > starting around 10pm at night!!
            >         >
            >         > Thanks so much! You have all been so helpful with my
            other questions!
            >      &n bsp;  > Kelly
            >         >
            >         >
            >         >
            >         >
            >         > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            >         > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >         >
            >         >
            >         >
            >         > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >         >
            >         > < BR>>
            >
            >
            >         To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            >         FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            >
            >
            >         Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
            Service.
            >
            >       
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            Aaron R. Martin, cmt
            
            (925) 337-2340
            
            Livermore CA (San Francisco Bay Area)
            
             
            
            got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!
            
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
            
            stop by and see ~ membership is free!
            
            --

            ___________________________________________________________
            Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com
            http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup



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            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
             
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 143 From: Heather Date: 12/9/2003
            Subject: Re: Freshwater Crabs/(non-fish tank)
            Hi Aaron! We ordered the triops from
            drsfostersmith.com. They really do work, but if you
            have an extra tank that you could use for them, you
            can get them at Wal Mart for $3 or $4. I don't know
            if they are the "new sea-monkey", but they do grow to
            3". They live about 30-60 days. The only problem
            that I had was that my son wanted to keep them in the
            kitchen and you have to let their water stay a little
            dirty.

            Heather


            --- Aaron Martin <massagetherapist@...> wrote:

            ---------------------------------

            Hi Kelly,

            How big are the crabs? I've not seen them here at the
            stores yet. I would think they would prey on the
            smaller and/or weaker fish the same way large shrimp,
            crawdads/crayfish and lobsters do. Have the crabs ever
            been aggressive towards any of the fish? What do they
            eat? What kind are they?

            I'm very interested as I want to start a large planted
            (non-fish) tank w/ very few regular fish, only a
            variety of algae eaters - dwarf clown plecos, otos,
            golden, SAE's and maybee Chinese. I'm wanting to stock
            it w/ more unusal creatures like somebody was
            describing a tank w/out a filter using only freshwater
            mussels and plants to keep the water clean. I'd like
            to have lots of Malaysian Trumpet Snails (MTS),
            variety of other small snails and some apple snails, a
            variety of shrimp, a BLUE lobster, African Dwarf
            Frogs, tadpoles, a few loaches that burrow into the
            soil/substrate, mussels and clams, and the crabs if I
            can find all those critters. I've even heard of people
            keeping LEECHES, they sound interesting. Can newts or
            other (amphibians?) be kept in an aquarium? I'd like
            to have as much diversity as possible assuming they
            are all able to get along together.

            Any other unusal or not so common aquatic life anybody
            can think of that would be interesting to have in a
            somewhat odd mixed tank?

            Annybody ever heard of a TRIOPS? It is advertised in
            the Dr's Foster & Smith catalog on page 93. Supposed
            to hatch them from eggs and get up to 3". Sounds like
            it might be the newest version of the 'sea-monkey'.
            Here is link that might get you more info;

            http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?CatalogCustomerNum=&catalognum=&pCatId=4548&prodId=8553&catId=966782&siteid=6


            *TRIOPS - living creatures from the dinosaur era

            They're not cute or cuddly but they've been around
            since the dinosaur age, so they must be doing
            something right! Just add water to the Triops eggs and
            they will hatch that day! Over the next month, watch
            them grow an astonishing 1-3 inches. The Triops Kit
            contains everything you need to bring science and a
            pre-historic era alive in your own home. You'll
            receive a plastic growing tank with lid, thermometer,
            Triops eggs and food, and an illustrated booklet to
            guide you through the life of your prehistoric pet.
            (picture attached)

            __________________________________
            Do you Yahoo!?
            New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
            http://photos.yahoo.com/
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 144 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 12/9/2003
            Subject: more Algae Eaters
            Hi all,

            I bought some more Alge Eaters today and am looking for suggestions
            on more varities. I got a 'Red-eye Chocolate Pleco', an 'Albino Dwarf
            Bushy-nose Pleco', and what is hopefully a Siamese Algae Eater(SAE)-
            the owner of the store wasn't sure if it was the real thing or not.
            How does one determine a true SAE anyway?
            I plan on getting some golden algae eaters later. I had a large
            Chinese Algae Eater that I borrowed from a friend, but it was too big
            and a bit aggresive. I have had the regular plecos in the past, but
            they get really huge fast. I already have a couple(dwarf?)clown
            plecos, 10 otos and lots of misc. little snails. I hear Malaysian
            Trumpet Snails (MTS) are good for the substrate, but can't find any
            locally. I want docile and small fish.
            Any good places to buy some MTS?
            I want to get some different shrimp, I've heard that Amano shrimp are
            great at cleaning Java Moss.
            Any other shrimp that are good algae eaters and/or bottom cleaners
            that won't harm fry?
            Those golden-clawed Crabs Kelly was talking about sound interesting,
            but I haven't seen them for sale anywhere.

            What else will eat algae besides snails, shrimp and the fish I
            already have?
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 145 From: Dom Date: 12/9/2003
            Subject: Re: Missing an eye!
            Mostly dragon eel, crabs and black ghost knife fish are aggressive
            type which are not recommended to keep with moll, guppy and those
            peacefull type.

            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "~Kelly~"
            <dreamz64@r...> wrote:
            > Hi Dom,
            >
            > Thanks so much for the reply...... NOPE.. Just the one fish is
            missing
            > one eye and they were perfectly healthy looking before yesterday
            morning...
            > I am going to try cross my fingers and hope that the pet store
            owner that I
            > deal with is right and take him up on his offer to supply me with
            enough
            > females to keep the males from getting aggressive.
            >
            > I have no choice but to seperate my pregnant moms from the
            community tank as
            > my husbands few fish are NOT fish to be trusted with Guppies,
            Mollies,
            > platties and swordfish fry. He has a Black Ghost knife fish, the
            dragon Eel
            > 2 crabs, and 2 danio's that I do NOT trust with the babies... I
            also have
            > had my mollies eat another mollies babies as well as the guppy
            babies...
            >
            > After the holidays I want to get some live plants like you
            mentioned and put
            > those in the fry /maternity tank so I don't have to use the nets.We
            are also
            > planning on getting 2 more tanks after the holidays. One just for
            my guppies
            > and another for just my dalmation, platinum and black mollies... I
            sooooo
            > want a black and white tank with just a splash of red.. I saw one
            in a
            > catalog and it was goreous!!!
            >
            > Have a great day!
            > Kelly
            >
            >
            > -------Original Message-------
            >
            > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
            > Date: 12/08/2003 09:18:33 PM
            > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Missing an eye!
            >
            > Since other fishes inside the tank are healthy. I don't think they
            > attacking by any disease. There is a disease called Pop Eyes. The
            > eyes of fish will turn to white and then pop out. The eyes will
            > totally drop after 1-2 week time if you didnt cure it correctly.
            Then
            > the fish will become blind.
            >
            > But from what you said, I believe is Swordfish or eel attacked her.
            >
            > In my guppy, black moll and neon tetra community tank. I let them
            > breeding and deliver the babies themselves. I won't seperate them
            in
            > the breeding net. coz this will stress them and will caused the
            > female dead or can't deliver the baby smoothly.
            >
            > The community tank with few black color rock and there are Anubias
            > Nanas (Plant which doesn't need strong CO2, but light). All the fry
            > will hiding after they were just appart from their mother stomach.
            I
            > saw my guppy and black moll fry getting along very well.
            >
            > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "M Reed
            > Enterprises" <mreed@m...> wrote:
            > > Yeah, I would bet it was the eel. Second choice is the swordtail
            > male. Third is disease (unlikely).
            > >
            > > mike
            > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > From: ~Kelly~
            > > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
            > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 11:57 AM
            > > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Missing an eye!
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Hi Mike,
            > >
            > >
            > > I finally got real baffled and called my local pet
            > store.. The owner there is REALLY helpful, and since is planning to
            > buy my fry when they grow he is MORE than happy to help me when he
            > has the time.
            > >
            > > He also thought the eel could be the culprit, but
            because
            > no other fish have gotten hurt or disappeared he feels that it is
            > most likely all of my males ( without females) in the tank... He
            said
            > that without a woman they will get aggressive and with so many men
            > and not enough women.. well.. You know how that goes... LOL
            > >
            > > He told me to come up tonight and he is going to GIVE
            me
            > the females to go with the males... He is trying to get it so he is
            > getting ALOT of his "everyday" popular fish ( Mollies, guppies,
            > swordtails and platties) from local breeders, and is willing to
            help
            > out because he is planning on buying back my fry when they are big
            > enough...... I thought that was super nice if him!!
            > >
            > > However I WILL be keeping an eye on the eel!! It is my
            > husbands and the thing gives me the creeps anyways... LOL
            > >
            > > thanks so much,
            > > Kelly
            > > -------Original Message-------
            > >
            > > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
            > > Date: 12/08/2003 01:47:01 PM
            > > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
            > > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Missing an
            > eye!
            > >
            > > The missing eye could have happened many ways. The eel is
            > suspect number
            > > one, however.
            > >
            > > Aggressive fish that are active at night should not be
            kept
            > with fishes that
            > > are helpless in the dark.
            > >
            > > Mike
            > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > From: "Kelly" <dreamz64@r...>
            > > To: <FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com>
            > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 10:28 AM
            > > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Missing an eye!
            > >
            > >
            > > > Ok. Its Only ME with my strange questions...
            > > >
            > > > I just noticed that one of my black mollies is missing
            an
            > eye! It is
            > > > acting perfectly normal.. swimming around, eating etc.
            > Is there a
            > > > disease that would make his eye just fall out? Or would
            > something
            > > > have to of eaten it out? It did have BOTH eyes last
            > night....
            > > >
            > > > I am a bit concerned as I do have 2 black mollies, one
            > male
            > > > swordtail, 2 male dalmation mollies ( the females are
            > both pregant
            > > > and have been moved to another tank) and 1 male platty.
            > NONE of these
            > > > have mates yet and I notice they have been picking on
            my
            > silver
            > > > dollar fish and 2 gourami's.
            > > >
            > > > Would they do this to each other? Should I get females
            > for these
            > > > males ASAP? Or is my husbands dragon eel being
            > aggressive at night??
            > > > It is pretty still during the day, but seems to raise
            > holy heck
            > > > starting around 10pm at night!!
            > > >
            > > > Thanks so much! You have all been so helpful with my
            > other questions!
            > > > Kelly
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-
            unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
            of
            > Service.
            > >
            > >
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            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            > > ADVERTISEMENT
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            > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > >
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            > Service.
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            > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 146 From: Dom Date: 12/9/2003
            Subject: Re: Freshwater Crabs/(non-fish tank)
            Try to get Cory, instead of crabs to clean the gravel. Cory won't
            attack any fry.

            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "~Kelly~"
            <dreamz64@r...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi Aaron,
            >
            > They are called gold claw crabs... They are small, just 1/2" to 3/4
            of an
            > inch. The seem to find plenty to eat on the plants and in the
            gravel. They
            > are of course a couple more creepy things that my husband brings
            home
            > because they look "cool" LOL
            >
            > Our local pet store has a few in almost all of their tropical
            tanks...
            >
            > They stay in the water most of the time, but do come up on occasion
            for air
            > which creeps me right out. They can climb either the cylicone in
            the
            > corners or up tall plants and then they get to the top and sit
            there getting
            > air... quite often I find them up near the filter... and then after
            a few
            > hours they are back in the water for a few hours. They are
            interesting to
            > watch, but they dont do much besides crawl around the bottom
            shoving things
            > in their mouths.. LOL
            >
            > sorry I was of littl to no help....
            >
            > Kelly
            > -------Original Message-------
            >
            > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
            > Date: 12/09/2003 01:36:34 PM
            > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Freshwater Crabs/(non-
            fish
            > tank)
            >
            > Hi Kelly,
            > How big are the crabs? I've not seen them here at the stores yet. I
            would
            > think they would prey on the smaller and/or weaker fish the same
            way large
            > shrimp, crawdads/crayfish and lobsters do. Have the crabs ever been
            > aggressive towards any of the fish? What do they eat? What kind are
            they?
            > I'm very interested as I want to start a large planted (non-fish)
            tank w/
            > very few regular fish, only a variety of algae eaters - dwarf clown
            plecos,
            > otos, golden, SAE's and maybee Chinese. I'm wanting to stock it w/
            more
            > unusal creatures like somebody was describing a tank w/out a filter
            using
            > only freshwater mussels and plants to keep the water clean. I'd
            like to have
            > lots of Malaysian Trumpet Snails (MTS), variety of other small
            snails and
            > some apple snails, a variety of shrimp, a BLUE lobster, African
            Dwarf Frogs,
            > tadpoles, a few loaches that burrow into the soil/substrate,
            mussels and
            > clams, and the crabs if I can find all those critters. I've even
            heard of
            > people keeping LEECHES, they sound interesting. Can newts or other
            > (amphibians?) be kept in an aquarium? I'd like to have as much
            diversity as
            > possible assuming they are all able to get along together.
            > Any other unusal or not so common aquatic life anybody can think of
            that
            > would be interesting to have in a somewhat odd mixed tank?
            > Annybody ever heard of a TRIOPS? It is advertised in the Dr's
            Foster & Smith
            > catalog on page 93. Supposed to hatch them from eggs and get up to
            3".
            > Sounds like it might be the newest version of the 'sea-monkey'.
            Here is link
            > that might get you more info;
            > http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_Display
            > cfm?
            CatalogCustomerNum=&catalognum=&pCatId=4548&prodId=8553&catId=966782&s
            ite
            > d=6
            >
            > *TRIOPS - living creatures from the dinosaur era
            >
            > They're not cute or cuddly but they've been around since the
            dinosaur age,
            > so they must be doing something right! Just add water to the Triops
            eggs and
            > they will hatch that day! Over the next month, watch them grow an
            > astonishing 1-3 inches. The Triops Kit contains everything you need
            to bring
            > science and a pre-historic era alive in your own home. You'll
            receive a
            > plastic growing tank with lid, thermometer, Triops eggs and food,
            and an
            > illustrated booklet to guide you through the life of your
            prehistoric pet.
            > (picture attached)
            >
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: "~Kelly~"
            > Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 06:56:28 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
            > To:
            > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Missing an eye!
            >
            >
            > Hi Dom,
            >
            > Thanks so much for the reply...... NOPE.. Just the one fish is
            missing
            > one eye and they were perfectly healthy looking before yesterday
            morning...
            > I am going to try cross my fingers and hope that the pet store
            owner that I
            > deal with is right and take him up on his offer to supply me with
            enough
            > females to keep the males from getting aggressive.
            >
            > I have no choice but to seperate my pregnant moms from the
            community tank as
            > my husbands few fish are NOT fish to be trusted with Guppies,
            Mollies,
            > platties and swordfish fry. He has a Black Ghost knife fish, the
            dragon Eel
            > 2 crabs, and 2 danio's that I do NOT trust with the babies... I
            also have
            > had my mollies eat another mollies babies as well as the guppy
            babies...
            >
            > After the holidays I want to get some live plants like you
            mentioned and put
            > those in the fry /maternity tank so I don't have to use the nets.We
            are also
            > planning on getting 2 more tanks after the holidays. One just for
            my guppies
            > and another for just my dalmation, platinum and black mollies... I
            sooooo
            > want a black and white tank with just a splash of red.. I saw one
            in a
            > catalog and it was goreous!!!
            >
            > Have a great day!
            > Kelly
            >
            >
            > -------Original Message-------
            >
            > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
            > Date: 12/08/2003 09:18:33 PM
            > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Missing an eye!
            >
            > Since other fishes inside the tank are healthy. I don't think they
            > attacking by any disease. There is a disease called Pop Eyes. The
            > eyes of fish will turn to white and then pop out. The eyes will
            > totally drop after 1-2 week time if you didnt cure it correctly.
            Then
            > the fish will become blind.
            >
            > But from what you said, I believe is Swordfish or eel attacked her.
            >
            > In my guppy, black moll and neon tetra community tank. I let them
            > breeding and deliver the babies themselves. I won't seperate them
            in
            > the breeding net. coz this will stress them and will caused the
            > female dead or can't deliver the baby smoothly.
            >
            > The community tank with few black color rock and there are Anubias
            > Nanas (Plant which doesn't need strong CO2, but light). All the fry
            > will hiding after they were just appart from their mother stomach.
            I
            > saw my guppy and black moll fry getting along very well.
            >
            > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishA quarium@yahoogroups.com, "M Reed
            > Enterprises" wrote:
            > > Yeah, I would bet it was the eel. Second choice is the swordtail
            > male. Third is disease (unlikely).
            > >
            > > mike
            > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > From: ~Kelly~
            > > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
            > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 11:57 AM
            > > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Missing an eye!
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Hi Mike,
            > >
            > >
            > > I finally got real baffled and called my local pet
            > store.. The owner there is REALLY helpful, and since is planning to
            > buy my fry when they grow he is MORE than happy to help me when he
            > has the time.
            > &g t ;
            > > He also thought the eel could be the culprit, but
            because
            > no other fish have gotten hurt or disappeared he feels that it is
            > most likely all of my males ( without females) in the tank... He
            said
            > that without a woman they will get aggressive and with so many men
            > and not enough women.. well.. You know how that goes... LOL
            > >
            > > He told me to come up tonight and he is going to GIVE
            me
            > the females to go with the males... He is trying to get it so he is
            > getting ALOT of his "everyday" popular fish ( Mollies, guppies,
            > swordtails and platties) from local breeders, and is willing to
            help
            > out because he is planning on buying back my fry when they are big
            > enough...... I thought that was super nice if him!!
            > >
            > > However I WILL be keeping an eye on the eel!! It is my
            > husbands and the thing gives me the creeps anyways... LOL
            > >
            > > thanks so much,
            > > Kelly
            > > -------Original Message-------
            > >
            > > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
            > > Date: 12/08/2003 01:47:01 PM
            > > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
            > > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Missing an
            > eye!
            > >
            > > The missing eye could have happened many ways. The eel is
            > suspect number
            > > one, however.
            > >
            > > ; Aggressive fish that are active at night should not be
            kept
            > with fishes that
            > > are helpless in the dark.
            > >
            > > Mike
            > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > From: "Kelly"
            > > To:
            > > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 10:28 AM
            > > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Missing an eye!
            > >
            > >
            > > > Ok. Its Only ME with my strange questions...
            > > >
            > > &nbs p;&nbs p; > I just noticed that one of my black mollies
            is
            > missing an
            > eye! It is
            > > > acting perfectly normal.. swimming around, eating etc.
            > Is there a
            > > > disease that would make his eye just fall out? Or would
            > something
            > > > have to of eaten it out? It did have BOTH eyes last
            > night....
            > > >
            > > > I am a bit concerned as I do have 2 black mollies, one
            > male
            > > > swordtail, 2 male dalmation mollies ( the females are
            > both pregant
            > > > and have been moved to another tank) and 1 male platty.
            > NONE of these
            > > ;&nb sp; > have mates yet and I notice they have been
            picking on my
            >
            > silver
            > > > dollar fish and 2 gourami's.
            > > >
            > > > Would they do this to each other? Should I get females
            > for these
            > > > males ASAP? Or is my husbands dragon eel being
            > aggressive at night??
            > > > It is pretty still during the day, but seems to raise
            > holy heck
            > > > starting around 10pm at night!!
            > > >
            > > > Thanks so much! You have all been so helpful with my
            > other questions!
            > > &n bsp; > Kelly
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-
            unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
            > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            > > >
            > > > < BR>>
            > >
            > >
            > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
            of
            > Service.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            > > ADVERTISEMENT
            > >
            > >
            > > &nb sp; ;
            > >
            > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
            > Service.
            >
            >
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
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            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
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            >
            >
            >
            > Aaron R. Martin, cmt
            >
            > (925) 337-2340
            >
            > Livermore CA (San Francisco Bay Area)
            >
            >
            >
            > got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!
            >
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
            >
            > stop by and see ~ membership is free!
            >
            > --
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            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 147 From: Dom Date: 12/9/2003
            Subject: Re: more Algae Eaters
            Hi Aaron,
            It is quite difficult to differentiate the SAE and Flying Fox. When
            the flying fox below 3 inch. It just look like SAE. But after it grow
            3inch and above. You will see a gold or brown color line across the
            body from mouth to tail on top of the black line. And flying fox's
            mouth direction is pointing towards bottom. It is quite aggressive
            and they will eating any small fry which swimming in front of them.
            Sometime, they won't do their job and will finish all the pellet
            which you feeding other fishes. But the small flying fox working very
            hard to clean the algae on drift wood.
            I have a 4inch (Max. size) Flying Fox keep attacking my Kribs fry.
            Decided to throw into my Lotus pot with my pelco.

            It is safe to get a bigger SAE. coz you can differentiate it easily.
            The adult SAE will hv bigger stomach. The black line across the body
            will be very thick and the whole body is in grey color. (Adult Flying
            Fox is in dark brown color) The size of adult SAE will be bigger and
            longer than flying fox.

            http://www.dennerle.de/ENGLISCH/e_algenbekaempfung.htm
            Check out this URL for how is the SAE and Flying Fox look like.

            There is Malaysia Shrimp and Amano Shrimp. Both of them are very good
            algae eater. You will see they never stop doing their job on
            different plants. But some other bigger fish might attacking them.

            I have few Malaysian Trumper Snails. Mostly they helping to clean the
            algae which grow on the tank. They won't eat any plants or harm to
            any small fish. Quite a good tank mate for others in planted tank.
            But it is hard to get now. Due to the breeder stop breeding it
            recently. And it can be found in wild caught.

            Beside the flying fox, SAE, Shrimp, Snail. I found Ottos is the best
            algae eater. Their max. size is 2inch only and no harm to other fish
            or plants.

            Do you try on black molly? Try to get the black molly which is with
            bigger stomach male n female. This type of molly they do eating the
            algae on the plants. I bought a male and 3 female. 2 female dead due
            to attack by my discus. And left one with 20 over fry...

            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron R.
            Martin, cmt" <massagetherapist@m...> wrote:
            > Hi all,
            >
            > I bought some more Alge Eaters today and am looking for suggestions
            > on more varities. I got a 'Red-eye Chocolate Pleco', an 'Albino
            Dwarf
            > Bushy-nose Pleco', and what is hopefully a Siamese Algae Eater(SAE)-
            > the owner of the store wasn't sure if it was the real thing or not.
            > How does one determine a true SAE anyway?
            > I plan on getting some golden algae eaters later. I had a large
            > Chinese Algae Eater that I borrowed from a friend, but it was too
            big
            > and a bit aggresive. I have had the regular plecos in the past, but
            > they get really huge fast. I already have a couple(dwarf?)clown
            > plecos, 10 otos and lots of misc. little snails. I hear Malaysian
            > Trumpet Snails (MTS) are good for the substrate, but can't find any
            > locally. I want docile and small fish.
            > Any good places to buy some MTS?
            > I want to get some different shrimp, I've heard that Amano shrimp
            are
            > great at cleaning Java Moss.
            > Any other shrimp that are good algae eaters and/or bottom cleaners
            > that won't harm fry?
            > Those golden-clawed Crabs Kelly was talking about sound
            interesting,
            > but I haven't seen them for sale anywhere.
            >
            > What else will eat algae besides snails, shrimp and the fish I
            > already have?
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 148 From: sunil kamath Date: 12/9/2003
            Subject: Re: more Algae Eaters
            hi Aaron,

            Check the link below and it gives you the details and
            difference between SAE and Flying Fox.

            http://www.thekrib.com/Fish/Algae-Eaters/

            Chinese algae eaters are a No NO, cause they do their
            job when young but once they grow big, they bully the
            other fishes and wont do the job as well ..


            ...SuNnY !

            --- "Aaron R. Martin, cmt" <massagetherapist@...>
            wrote:
            > Hi all,
            >
            > I bought some more Alge Eaters today and am looking
            > for suggestions
            > on more varities. I got a 'Red-eye Chocolate Pleco',
            > an 'Albino Dwarf
            > Bushy-nose Pleco', and what is hopefully a Siamese
            > Algae Eater(SAE)-
            > the owner of the store wasn't sure if it was the
            > real thing or not.
            > How does one determine a true SAE anyway?
            > I plan on getting some golden algae eaters later. I
            > had a large
            > Chinese Algae Eater that I borrowed from a friend,
            > but it was too big
            > and a bit aggresive. I have had the regular plecos
            > in the past, but
            > they get really huge fast. I already have a
            > couple(dwarf?)clown
            > plecos, 10 otos and lots of misc. little snails. I
            > hear Malaysian
            > Trumpet Snails (MTS) are good for the substrate, but
            > can't find any
            > locally. I want docile and small fish.
            > Any good places to buy some MTS?
            > I want to get some different shrimp, I've heard that
            > Amano shrimp are
            > great at cleaning Java Moss.
            > Any other shrimp that are good algae eaters and/or
            > bottom cleaners
            > that won't harm fry?
            > Those golden-clawed Crabs Kelly was talking about
            > sound interesting,
            > but I haven't seen them for sale anywhere.
            >
            > What else will eat algae besides snails, shrimp and
            > the fish I
            > already have?
            >
            >


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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 149 From: colonleywife Date: 12/10/2003
            Subject: cotton or white paint dots
            My tank is finally going through the cycling process! I brought four
            fish home last night to promote this, but I now wonder if they don't
            have some sort of fungal problem?
            The store isn't open yet, so I thought I'd ask about it here first.
            I didn't put the fish in the tank yet...I noticed the spots while
            they were still in the bag - getting used to the tank temperature.

            I got bleeding hearts and silver tips. At first, I noticed that the
            bleeding hearts had roughly 3-5 spots each. The spots are white and
            look like tiny hills of flour or white powder. The ones on their
            fins are white also, but white and cloudy-like. I know it's not Ick,
            but I'm thinking it's a fungus?

            I put the two bleeding hearts in quarantine. Took a really good look
            at the silver tips. They seemed completely fine, so I put them in
            the tank. This morning however, all three of them have white in
            their fins! The fish fins all look the same. It looks like the VERY
            END of the tips have been dotted with white paint. That's the only
            way I can describe it. Seriously, it looks like someone held them
            and quickly dipped the very edge (tip) of their fins in a can of
            white paint.

            They were only in the bag with each other for about 45 minutes. I
            don't understand.

            Thanks
            Teresa
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 150 From: daniel_roachus Date: 12/10/2003
            Subject: Re: more Algae Eaters
            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron R.
            Martin, cmt" <massagetherapist@m...> wrote:
            > Hi all,
            >
            > I bought some more Alge Eaters today and am looking for suggestions
            > on more varities. I got a 'Red-eye Chocolate Pleco', an 'Albino
            Dwarf
            > Bushy-nose Pleco', and what is hopefully a Siamese Algae Eater(SAE)-
            > the owner of the store wasn't sure if it was the real thing or not.
            > How does one determine a true SAE anyway?

            As I understand it from reading a few online pages, and seeing them
            in stores, The main telling points of an SAE are:

            Predominantly silver

            Black, slightly zigzaggy line through its body running into the tail
            fin

            Clear fins

            1 pair of whiskers

            the top half of the fish has clearly outlined scales (reticulated)
            (I think this is the major distinction)

            Flying foxes are a prettier fish, but can get mean as they grow up,
            as can false SAES


            To add to the confusion - some places call SAEs siamese flying foxes.


            I have a siamese flying fox in quarentine atm.


            I don't think telling them apart is as dificult as some may say....


            Daniel.
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 151 From: Aaron Martin Date: 12/10/2003
            Subject: Re: cotton or white paint dots

            Hi and Welcome to the group,

            Unfortunatley your tank & fish are now infected, likely w/ 'cotton' (Saprolegnia) which is a fungus. I have heard that Ick, like Algae, is always present in the water, the Ick will make itself known when the fish are stressed and/or sick. Other than Ick or 'cotton' it could be 'Velvet' (Oodinium) or lymphocystis disease which is viral and possibly Henneguya. The Medication is more expensive than the fish and not gauranteed to work. The store should refund your money for selling, what at any other type of store, would be considered 'defective merchandise' - that is they (knowingly) sold you sick fish. I suggest cleaning out your tank and starting over and never go back to that store again, they do not deserve your money. Those are not the best fish for cycling a tank, more common would be Danios or Rasboras which are much more capable of handling the stress of the cycling process.

            You mentioned you have some of the fish in quarantine. Is this a seperate tank? How many tanks do you have and how long have you been keeping fish?

            That is too bad the store did that to you, I've had similar bad experiences when I was new. I had a fully stocked 55gallon community tank that was destroyed when I directly added a new fish that I did not know was sick. That is how I discovered the concept of a quarantine tank.
            I used to work at a local PetCo, there is absolutely no training involved whatsoever, not even for the so called 'Aquatics Specialist', I have since avoided the big corporate stores, except on the occasional visit to rescue fry. Now I have found a small privatley owned store that has been in business since 1966, the owner is friendly and very informative. I have done a lot of research on my own to educate myself and it still baffles me, when I visit other stores, that I apparently know more than the people who work there, its seems to them its just a job.

            Hope that helps, sorry for the rambling, just a pet peeve when stores do stuff like that. It can be very discouraging for the begginer. I am an educator by nature and trade and prefer to see the 'light go on' when someones intrest is sparked and they become motivated to learn more, than the intrest becomes fascination. (and in my case borderline obsession)

            Let us know how it goes, thanks for joining the group and again Welcome.

            Aaron

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "colonleywife"
            Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 14:00:36 -0000
            To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] cotton or white paint dots

            My tank is finally going through the cycling process! I brought four
            fish home last night to promote this, but I now wonder if they don't
            have some sort of fungal problem?
            The store isn't open yet, so I thought I'd ask about it here first.
            I didn't put the fish in the tank yet...I noticed the spots while
            they were still in the bag - getting used to the tank temperature.

            I got bleeding hearts and silver tips. At first, I noticed that the
            bleeding hearts had roughly 3-5 spots each. The spots are white and
            look like tiny hills of flour or white powder. The ones on their
            fins are white also, but white and cloudy-like. I know it's not Ick,
            but I'm thinking it's a fungus?

            I put the two bleeding hearts in quarantine. Took a really good look
            at the silver tips. They seemed completely fine, so I put them in
            the tank. This morning however, all three of them have white in
            their fins! The fish fins all look the same. It looks like the VERY
            END of the tips have been dotted with white paint. That's the only
            way I can describe it. Seriously, it looks like someone held them
            and quickly dipped the very edge (tip) of their fins in a can of
            white paint.

            They were only in the bag with each other for about 45 minutes. I
            don't understand.

            Thanks
            Teresa



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            Aaron R. Martin, cmt
            
            (925) 337-2340
            
            Livermore CA (San Francisco Bay Area)
            
             
            
            got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!
            
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
            
            stop by and see ~ membership is free!
            
            --

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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 152 From: amalthea23 Date: 12/10/2003
            Subject: Re: cotton or white paint dots
            i too almost lost everyone in my 35 gallon tank due to a recent fungus
            assault from a petland parrot fish. thankfully i was able to medicate
            my other fish and it's been more than a month and everyone is healthy
            again.
            we used to have a wonderful "small" pet store that had a ton of fish in
            my area, and it recently went out of business. large chains are mostly
            what's left in my area, it's terrible.
            amalthea
            On Wednesday, December 10, 2003, at 04:29 PM, Aaron Martin wrote:

            > Hi and Welcome to the group,
            >
            > Unfortunatley your tank & fish are now infected, likely w/ 'cotton'
            > (Saprolegnia) which is a fungus. I have heard that Ick, like Algae, is
            > always present in the water, the Ick will make itself known when the
            > fish are stressed and/or sick. Other than Ick or 'cotton' it could be
            > 'Velvet' (Oodinium) or lymphocystis disease which is viral and
            > possibly Henneguya. The Medication is more expensive than the fish and
            > not gauranteed to work. The store should refund your money for
            > selling, what at any other type of store, would be considered
            > 'defective merchandise' - that is they (knowingly) sold you sick fish.
            > I suggest cleaning out your tank and starting over and never go back
            > to that store again, they do not deserve your money. Those are not the
            > best fish for cycling a tank, more common would be Danios or Rasboras
            > which are much more capable of handling the stress of the cycling
            > process.
            >
            > You mentioned you have some of the fish in quarantine. Is this a
            > seperate tank? How many tanks do you have and how long have you been
            > keeping fish?
            >
            > That is too bad the store did that to you, I've had similar bad
            > experiences when I was new. I had a fully stocked 55gallon community
            > tank that was destroyed when I directly added a new fish that I did
            > not know was sick. That is how I discovered the concept of a
            > quarantine tank.
            > I used to work at a local PetCo, there is absolutely no training
            > involved whatsoever, not even for the so called 'Aquatics Specialist',
            > I have since avoided the big corporate stores, except on the
            > occasional visit to rescue fry. Now I have found a small privatley
            > owned store that has been in business since 1966, the owner is
            > friendly and very informative. I have done a lot of research on my own
            > to educate myself and it still baffles me, when I visit other stores,
            > that I apparently know more than the people who work there, its seems
            > to them its just a job.
            >
            > Hope that helps, sorry for the rambling, just a pet peeve when stores
            > do stuff like that. It can be very discouraging for the begginer. I am
            > an educator by nature and trade and prefer to see the 'light go on'
            > when someones intrest is sparked and they become motivated to learn
            > more, than the intrest becomes fascination. (and in my case borderline
            > obsession)
            >
            > Let us know how it goes, thanks for joining the group and again
            > Welcome.
            >
            > Aaron
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: "colonleywife"
            > Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 14:00:36 -0000
            > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] cotton or white paint dots
            >
            > My tank is finally going through the cycling process! I brought four
            > fish home last night to promote this, but I now wonder if they don't
            > have some sort of fungal problem?
            > The store isn't open yet, so I thought I'd ask about it here first.
            > I didn't put the fish in the tank yet...I noticed the spots while
            > they were still in the bag - getting used to the tank temperature.
            >
            > I got bleeding hearts and silver tips. At first, I noticed that the
            > bleeding hearts had roughly 3-5 spots each. The spots are white and
            > look like tiny hills of flour or white powder. The ones on their
            > fins are white also, but white and cloudy-like. I know it's not Ick,
            > but I'm thinking it's a fungus?
            >
            > I put the two bleeding hearts in quarantine. Took a really good look
            > at the silver tips. They seemed completely fine, so I put them in
            > the tank. This morning however, all three of them have white in
            > their fins! The fish fins all look the same. It looks like the VERY
            > END of the tips have been dotted with white paint. That's the only
            > way I can describe it. Seriously, it looks like someone held them
            > and quickly dipped the very edge (tip) of their fins in a can of
            > white paint.
            >
            > They were only in the bag with each other for about 45 minutes. I
            > don't understand.
            >
            > Thanks
            > Teresa
            >
            >
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
            >
            >
            > Aaron R. Martin, cmt
            >
            > (925) 337-2340
            >
            > Livermore CA (San Francisco Bay Area)
            >
            >
            >
            > got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!
            >
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
            >
            > stop by and see ~ membership is free!
            >
            > --
            >
            > ___________________________________________________________
            > Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com
            > http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup
            >
            >
            <image.tiff>
            >
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
            http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
            for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
            religion....
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 153 From: Dom Date: 12/10/2003
            Subject: Re: cotton or white paint dots
            It is sad to hear your fish attacking by fungus and white spot. My
            hybrid parrot fish was infected by this last time. And I managed to
            cure. Hope my method below can help you.

            I had tried different brands of medicines. But none of them help.

            If your tank is around 20 gallon. Change 100% of water with
            antichronie/water condition. Please put in 5-8 table spoons of
            aquarium salt. Get the heater and adjust it to 30-32 degree celcious
            for all day long.

            2nd day, change 80% of water. put in the same amount of aquarium
            salt, antichronie and set the heater to 30-32 degree celcious.

            3rd day, change 50% of water and doing the same like above. But
            reduce the aquarium salt to 5-6 table spoons.

            4th day, change 25% of water and reduce the salt to 5 spoons.

            5th - 6th day, change 10% of water and still 5 spoons of salt.

            7th day, change 80% of water. put antichronie, salt and same
            temporature.

            I think your fish will fully recover after 7th day...

            The fungus and white spot normally caused by bad water conditional
            and low temporature of water.


            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, amalthea23
            <amalthea23@m...> wrote:
            > i too almost lost everyone in my 35 gallon tank due to a recent
            fungus
            > assault from a petland parrot fish. thankfully i was able to
            medicate
            > my other fish and it's been more than a month and everyone is
            healthy
            > again.
            > we used to have a wonderful "small" pet store that had a ton of
            fish in
            > my area, and it recently went out of business. large chains are
            mostly
            > what's left in my area, it's terrible.
            > amalthea
            > On Wednesday, December 10, 2003, at 04:29 PM, Aaron Martin wrote:
            >
            > > Hi and Welcome to the group,
            > >
            > > Unfortunatley your tank & fish are now infected, likely
            w/ 'cotton'
            > > (Saprolegnia) which is a fungus. I have heard that Ick, like
            Algae, is
            > > always present in the water, the Ick will make itself known when
            the
            > > fish are stressed and/or sick. Other than Ick or 'cotton' it
            could be
            > > 'Velvet' (Oodinium) or lymphocystis disease which is viral and
            > > possibly Henneguya. The Medication is more expensive than the
            fish and
            > > not gauranteed to work. The store should refund your money for
            > > selling, what at any other type of store, would be considered
            > > 'defective merchandise' - that is they (knowingly) sold you sick
            fish.
            > > I suggest cleaning out your tank and starting over and never go
            back
            > > to that store again, they do not deserve your money. Those are
            not the
            > > best fish for cycling a tank, more common would be Danios or
            Rasboras
            > > which are much more capable of handling the stress of the cycling
            > > process.
            > >
            > > You mentioned you have some of the fish in quarantine. Is this a
            > > seperate tank? How many tanks do you have and how long have you
            been
            > > keeping fish?
            > >
            > > That is too bad the store did that to you, I've had similar bad
            > > experiences when I was new. I had a fully stocked 55gallon
            community
            > > tank that was destroyed when I directly added a new fish that I
            did
            > > not know was sick. That is how I discovered the concept of a
            > > quarantine tank.
            > > I used to work at a local PetCo, there is absolutely no training
            > > involved whatsoever, not even for the so called 'Aquatics
            Specialist',
            > > I have since avoided the big corporate stores, except on the
            > > occasional visit to rescue fry. Now I have found a small
            privatley
            > > owned store that has been in business since 1966, the owner is
            > > friendly and very informative. I have done a lot of research on
            my own
            > > to educate myself and it still baffles me, when I visit other
            stores,
            > > that I apparently know more than the people who work there, its
            seems
            > > to them its just a job.
            > >
            > > Hope that helps, sorry for the rambling, just a pet peeve when
            stores
            > > do stuff like that. It can be very discouraging for the begginer.
            I am
            > > an educator by nature and trade and prefer to see the 'light go
            on'
            > > when someones intrest is sparked and they become motivated to
            learn
            > > more, than the intrest becomes fascination. (and in my case
            borderline
            > > obsession)
            > >
            > > Let us know how it goes, thanks for joining the group and again
            > > Welcome.
            > >
            > > Aaron
            > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > From: "colonleywife"
            > > Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 14:00:36 -0000
            > > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
            > > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] cotton or white paint
            dots
            > >
            > > My tank is finally going through the cycling process! I brought
            four
            > > fish home last night to promote this, but I now wonder if they
            don't
            > > have some sort of fungal problem?
            > > The store isn't open yet, so I thought I'd ask about it here
            first.
            > > I didn't put the fish in the tank yet...I noticed the spots while
            > > they were still in the bag - getting used to the tank temperature.
            > >
            > > I got bleeding hearts and silver tips. At first, I noticed that
            the
            > > bleeding hearts had roughly 3-5 spots each. The spots are white
            and
            > > look like tiny hills of flour or white powder. The ones on their
            > > fins are white also, but white and cloudy-like. I know it's not
            Ick,
            > > but I'm thinking it's a fungus?
            > >
            > > I put the two bleeding hearts in quarantine. Took a really good
            look
            > > at the silver tips. They seemed completely fine, so I put them in
            > > the tank. This morning however, all three of them have white in
            > > their fins! The fish fins all look the same. It looks like the
            VERY
            > > END of the tips have been dotted with white paint. That's the only
            > > way I can describe it. Seriously, it looks like someone held them
            > > and quickly dipped the very edge (tip) of their fins in a can of
            > > white paint.
            > >
            > > They were only in the bag with each other for about 45 minutes. I
            > > don't understand.
            > >
            > > Thanks
            > > Teresa
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
            Service.
            > >
            > >
            > > Aaron R. Martin, cmt
            > >
            > > (925) 337-2340
            > >
            > > Livermore CA (San Francisco Bay Area)
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!
            > >
            > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
            > >
            > > stop by and see ~ membership is free!
            > >
            > > --
            > >
            > > ___________________________________________________________
            > > Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com
            > > http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup
            > >
            > >
            > <image.tiff>
            > >
            > >
            > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
            Service.
            > http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
            > for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
            > religion....
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 156 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 12/11/2003
            Subject: Re: the Molly, to salt of not to salt, that is the question
            Hi, I have had Bumblee Bee Gobies and Mollies together for more than
            a year now. The salt content has varied from almost none to as much
            as 1 Tablespoon per 2 gallons. Currently they are in a planted tank
            w/ very little or no salt.
            ? -> How does one measure very low level salinity? <-
            True Brackish water (1/2 Sea water & 1/2 freshwater) is recommended
            for breeding the gobies in a species only tank. I will let you know
            how this goes as I plan on breeding them in a few months.
            ->~I would be interested to hear from people who have kept Mollies in
            a Marine tank.~<-
            So it is not true that these gobies are 'strictly brackish'. I used
            to work for PetCo when I was new to fishkeeping, and I know for
            certain that the company has zero training, especially for the so
            called 'Aquatic Specialists', so take anything the employees say
            with 'a grain of salt'. ;^)

            Aaron R. Martin, cmt ~ Livermore CA (San Francisco Bay Area)
            got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
            stop by and see ~ membership is free

            -----------------------------------------------------------------

            Joanna, thanks for that article, it was very interesting! One reason
            I was planning a brackish tank for my mollies is that I was also
            interested in keeping bumblebee gobies in that tank, and I understand
            they're strictly brackish. The second reason is that all the mollies
            at Petco are kept in water with at least 1 tsp salt per gallon, and
            when I bought my mollies there, the woman who helped me made me
            promise that I would keep the mollies in "brackish water". (And I
            did for a while, but then when I got my loaches I had to reduce the
            salinity!) So if I ever buy more mollies from Petco, I will feel
            really guilty unless I can promise that woman I have a brackish tank
            to take them home to.
            --------------------------------------------------------------

            You won't hurt the Molly by adding salt. Mollies have been used for
            years to help cycle marine tanks(I.E. seahorses).

            ----------------------------------------------------------------

            correct it is not necessary, but after raising mollies (successfully)
            for 25 years, and all types, YES, by all means add salt. The
            experience I have had, and I have tried both ways, tells me always
            add salt, very important for proper gill function,not to mention the
            electrolyte properties that the mollies seem to prefer. alan

            --------------------------------------------------------------

            Interesting article, especially when dealing with tank sizes for the
            sailfin molly. These mollies used to be VERY common in the hobby way
            back when, and I do remember seeing (and keeping) some monster sized
            ones. I collected sailfins in Florida this past summer (in seawater,
            although I have also seen them in spring-fed streams that drained
            into the ocean), and have them in my 54 corner tank (brackish water).
            I do not expect them to develop the full length sailfin as the tank
            is way too small for them. As to whether or not mollies require salt,
            I would have to say they do, contrary to what the article states.
            While the point is made that mollies do not tolerate poor water
            quality (o.k. ,what fish really does?!), I believe that all mollies
            should be kept under brackish conditions (the exceptions are
            Poecillia formosa, P. elegans, P. latipunctata, P. butleri, P.
            catemaconis, P. caucana and perhaps one or two others that are not
            found in brackish situations). With P. gillii, it's only the larger
            individuals that are found in brackish waters. Smaller ones tend to
            stay in freshwater, then migrate as they get older (this is not the
            case with the more commonly available molly species). P. sphenops
            (black molly), P. mexicana (green molly) and P. orri (mangrove molly)
            are most definitely brackishwater species, and should be kept as
            such, IMO. Yes, they do enter freshwater, and will live very well
            there. But they are all considered brackish species (much in the way
            scats, monos and certain puffers are).
            Frank M. Greco (phrankg@o...)
            Visit http://www.franksaquarium.com
            The Freshwater Crustacean Farm

            ---------------------------------------------------------------

            Skip to the LINK WAY BELOW to a good article on Mollies. If you are
            really interested in The Debate on Mollies and salt - read below and
            then so the article. :-)
            Lots of people talk about the Molly and whether to add salt to it's
            water. From what I've read in the wild Livebearers group - don't add
            salt the a pet store Molly's water.

            One scientist suggested this:

            one man catches a wild Molly in brackish water and says, "we must
            keep this fish at a certain salinity."

            Another scientist catches a Molly upstream in fresh water and
            says, "we must keep the Molly in freshwater."

            The third bear - er , I mean, scientist catches a Molly that is
            swimming in the ocean, and says - "we must keep these Mollies in a
            marine tank."

            But, other scientists say, - "the Molly was living upstream in fresh
            water. The rains came and washed the Molly downstream - out to sea.
            The Molly had time to adjust to the very high salt content and swam
            around... eventually getting into the marshes where the salt content
            is low (brackish)and eventually made it's way back to it's freshwater
            home and swam back upstream"

            I read this and I thought, "oh, isn't that interesting!"
            Salt is not the only question with Mollies.
            SAILFIN MOLLIES --Space requirement can be very important. Those
            big, beaufiful Orange or Silver or Black/Orange or Red Sailfins
            need lots of room to grow and probably should some salt and higher
            temps than some tropicals.. Do some serious reading if you like the
            Sailfins.

            To answer the question, most Pet Store Mollies do not need
            salt in their water. The big Sailfins are the exception.

            LINK BELOW

            Joanna




            http://www.aqualink.com/columns/k-livebearer3.html
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 157 From: colonleywife Date: 12/11/2003
            Subject: Re: cotton or white paint dots
            Hi Aaron...thanks for responding!

            Yes, I am unfortunately TERRIBLY new at all of this.

            Here is an update on the "dotted" fish:
            The Silver Tips are doing very well. They are supposed to have white
            tips, but the color didn't really show until they got comfortable in
            the tank.
            Thankfully, the Bleeding Hearts never touched my tank. I took them
            back to the store and was immediately given a refund and numerous
            apologies. We looked at the other Bleeding Hearts (from same store
            tank) and all seemed fine. Looked like I just happened to get the
            fish that were 'further down the line' in illness. The owner put a
            sign on the tank and had an employees working on it. Just out of
            curiosity, I returned after the owners shift was over; those fish
            were in the "hospital" lab. (They have an area in the back for
            medicated or injured fish.)

            To make a VERY long story short as possible -
            I have been mislead by the three LFS here. You'd think a big city
            (Metro Detroit) would have more to offer. I have been told so many
            lies...and the businesses SHOULD be shut-down!

            Only two weeks have passed since I purchased the set-up. From day
            one, I was given false information...because they wanted my money.
            I'm a mother in my mid-thirties and haven't had a fish (goldfish)
            since I was a kid. I took my 5yr old shopping and came home with a
            complete mess!

            I got a 29gal w/set-up: Whisper 40 Carbon Filtration, tubing/air
            stone, 8" heater, 40 yes...FORTY lbs of med gravel, and freezer-dried
            red larva.
            Although I asked a TON of questions, they said that I shouldn't
            believe things I saw on the net...that THEY had been in operation for
            over 40 yrs and wouldn't steer me wrong. YEAH RIGHT!
            I asked them to explain "cycling" and overcrowding. They said it
            wasn't necessary and that I had plenty of room. They told me to add
            the conditioner drops, fill up the tank, get it to 80 degrees and add
            the fish.
            Fish were: (This is horrible...wish I knew THEN.)
            2 fantails
            3 black moors
            2 guppies (got in bag accidentally)
            4 small angelfish
            2 pristella tetras
            2 painted glass (know the truth about coloring NOW)
            3 dalmation mollies
            1 common pleco (sold to me as a female bristlenose)
            2 chinese algae eaters (sold to me as siamese)

            Slowly but surely, the fish were nipping and acting sluggish.
            Thankfully, my friend returned from a business trip and filled me
            in. I took the 5 goldfish back and gave her the rest. She has two
            tanks and the larger is 90gal. The fish are doing fine...

            I went to two other stores in the interim of my friends return.
            There too, I was lied to. They told me that the temp was too high,
            that it should be between 72-74 degrees. They told me that feeding
            flakes was old-fashioned and that I should ONLY feed them larva. I
            questioned the fish compatibility and was told they would all be
            fine...and what I had heard about the algae eaters, pleco and
            angelfish was false. Although I was still confused, when asking about
            water testing kits, I was sold a ph only. They said that they never
            recommend buying any of the others. They said the others weren't as
            important and they rather me bring my water samples in. (Hmm...) By
            this time I was researching on the net and knew something was
            horribly wrong...why were the stores telling me lies?

            Believe me, the aforementioned is only a LITTLE of the lies I was
            told. I finally found the store that I went to yesterday. The owner
            pretty much took me under his wing and has even went as far as
            telling me NOT to buy anything. What I've needed, he's given me. He
            has been testing my water every-other day, explained how to perform
            and read results of the tests, gravel vacuuming, over half my gravel
            is out now, explained feeding and gave me correct food, explained
            water-changes, adding salt, etc.

            Unlike the other stores, when asking about a fish for future sake,
            he'll come right out and say, "No. Don't even look at those."

            Anyhow, I am hopefully on the better road now. I honestly think
            yesterdays fish was just bad luck. I realize that I got two sick
            fish, but this has 'so far' been the only store that hasn't
            completely screwed me.

            Thanks for listening...I really look forward to sharing pics and
            stories as well as get suggestions/advice from the members that know
            what they're doing!!!

            Teresa
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 158 From: colonleywife Date: 12/11/2003
            Subject: Re: cotton or white paint dots
            Franchised stores make me sick in general. Not just in regard to
            fish, but all species.
            My husband and I are crazy for animals. If it weren't for our cozy
            home and allergies, we'd probably have more pets.
            This is a little out of the norm, but I'd like to share if I could?

            Two years ago we purchased a female Cocker Spaniel from the Detroit
            Humane Society. We don't believe in puppy mills, nor do we believe
            in buying from breeders. The day when you could find a box of
            puppies for sale or through a friend are long gone. We THOUGHT we
            were doing the right thing - Save a dog that someone had given up or
            abandoned...help out the local shelter...go through the application
            process...and not feed into the "puppy business." We were on a tight
            budget and $200 seemed like a good deal.

            This is what we were told:
            She was roughly four yrs old
            Had pups 10 days prior (two were also donated) and that was why she
            was "a little out of it," and her teets were swollen and droopy.
            Said her left eye was droopy because she had a yeast infection - they
            had medication for it and it should be fine in a few days.
            Said that she had went through all the tests, x-rays, shots and just
            needed some TLC to get her back in the swing of things.

            Nothing changed after two weeks. We were very concerned because
            although she loved attention, she was very timid and when she gained
            enough energy to walk, it seemed painful for her. We also found it
            odd that she never barked, let alone make any noise. We were told
            that she was house-trained and thought that it would just take time
            with the new environment.

            We took her to our vet to remove stitches. We were in tears! Come
            to find out:
            She was between 7 - 10 yrs old.
            Was raised as a breeding dog and probably had more than eight litters.
            Had scaring from being infected with diseases...living on cement
            concrete...wired caged.
            They shaved her neck and showed us the scar where her vocal cords had
            been removed...so she wouldn't make noise in the puppy mill.
            Her left eye was completely blind and the right only had 20%.
            Her eyes were 'dry-socketed' and needed saline drops EVERY hour.
            Her left hip had been fractured three times and healed wrong.
            She had uncontrolled diabetes and needed to be on daily meds to
            ensure that she wouldn't have seizures and to control the arthritic
            pain in her hip.

            We immediately filed charges against the Humane Society. They called
            us within hours. They had the nerve to offer us a full-refund IF we
            dropped the charges...or that they would be happy to exchange the dog
            for another. They told us that a dog in that state needed to be put
            down immediately and that she must have "gotten past the system"
            because this is completely out of the norm? No way! Okay, so MAYBE
            one thing gets overlooked, but this was completely horrific.
            We found a local retired vet that houses senior citizens. She ONLY
            takes in severly sick animals and is well-known by local vet
            clinics. We donated the dog and get periodic updates.

            The world is just cruel and heartless! Sick people don't see a
            living creature, they see money.

            Sorry, just wanted to add my .02 about animal cruelty.

            Teresa
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 159 From: amalthea23 Date: 12/11/2003
            Subject: Re: cotton or white paint dots
            you really should call the better business bureau on that store, that's
            just plain wrong!
            amalthea
            On Thursday, December 11, 2003, at 08:15 AM, colonleywife wrote:

            > Hi Aaron...thanks for responding!
            >
            > Yes, I am unfortunately TERRIBLY new at all of this.
            >
            > Here is an update on the "dotted" fish:
            > The Silver Tips are doing very well.  They are supposed to have white
            > tips, but the color didn't really show until they got comfortable in
            > the tank. 
            > Thankfully, the Bleeding Hearts never touched my tank.  I took them
            > back to the store and was immediately given a refund and numerous
            > apologies.  We looked at the other Bleeding Hearts (from same store
            > tank) and all seemed fine.  Looked like I just happened to get the
            > fish that were 'further down the line' in illness.  The owner put a
            > sign on the tank and had an employees working on it. Just out of
            > curiosity, I returned after the owners shift was over; those fish
            > were in the "hospital" lab. (They have an area in the back for
            > medicated or injured fish.)
            >
            > To make a VERY long story short as possible -
            > I have been mislead by the three LFS here.  You'd think a big city
            > (Metro Detroit) would have more to offer.  I have been told so many
            > lies...and the businesses SHOULD be shut-down!
            >
            > Only two weeks have passed since I purchased the set-up.  From day
            > one, I was given false information...because they wanted my money. 
            > I'm a mother in my mid-thirties and haven't had a fish (goldfish)
            > since I was a kid.  I took my 5yr old shopping and came home with a
            > complete mess!
            >
            > I got a 29gal w/set-up: Whisper 40 Carbon Filtration, tubing/air
            > stone, 8" heater, 40 yes...FORTY lbs of med gravel, and freezer-dried
            > red larva.
            > Although I asked a TON of questions, they said that I shouldn't
            > believe things I saw on the net...that THEY had been in operation for
            > over 40 yrs and wouldn't steer me wrong.  YEAH RIGHT!
            > I asked them to explain "cycling" and overcrowding.  They said it
            > wasn't necessary and that I had plenty of room.  They told me to add
            > the conditioner drops, fill up the tank, get it to 80 degrees and add
            > the fish.
            > Fish were: (This is horrible...wish I knew THEN.)
            > 2 fantails
            > 3 black moors
            > 2 guppies (got in bag accidentally)
            > 4 small angelfish
            > 2 pristella tetras
            > 2 painted glass (know the truth about coloring NOW)
            > 3 dalmation mollies
            > 1 common pleco (sold to me as a female bristlenose)
            > 2 chinese algae eaters (sold to me as siamese)
            >
            > Slowly but surely, the fish were nipping and acting sluggish. 
            > Thankfully, my friend returned from a business trip and filled me
            > in.  I took the 5 goldfish back and gave her the rest.  She has two
            > tanks and the larger is 90gal.  The fish are doing fine...
            >
            > I went to two other stores in the interim of my friends return. 
            > There too, I was lied to.  They told me that the temp was too high,
            > that it should be between 72-74 degrees.  They told me that feeding
            > flakes was old-fashioned and that I should ONLY feed them larva.  I
            > questioned the fish compatibility and was told they would all be
            > fine...and what I had heard about the algae eaters, pleco and
            > angelfish was false. Although I was still confused, when asking about
            > water testing kits, I was sold a ph only.  They said that they never
            > recommend buying any of the others.  They said the others weren't as
            > important and they rather me bring my water samples in. (Hmm...) By
            > this time I was researching on the net and knew something was
            > horribly wrong...why were the stores telling me lies? 
            >
            > Believe me, the aforementioned is only a LITTLE of the lies I was
            > told.  I finally found the store that I went to yesterday.  The owner
            > pretty much took me under his wing and has even went as far as
            > telling me NOT to buy anything.  What I've needed, he's given me.  He
            > has been testing my water every-other day, explained how to perform
            > and read results of the tests, gravel vacuuming, over half my gravel
            > is out now, explained feeding and gave me correct food, explained
            > water-changes, adding salt, etc.
            >
            > Unlike the other stores, when asking about a fish for future sake,
            > he'll come right out and say, "No.  Don't even look at those."
            >
            > Anyhow, I am hopefully on the better road now.  I honestly think
            > yesterdays fish was just bad luck.  I realize that I got two sick
            > fish, but this has 'so far' been the only store that hasn't
            > completely screwed me.
            >
            > Thanks for listening...I really look forward to sharing pics and
            > stories as well as get suggestions/advice from the members that know
            > what they're doing!!!
            >
            > Teresa
            >
            >
            <image.tiff>
            >
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
            http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
            for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
            religion....
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 160 From: scrapinacox Date: 12/11/2003
            Subject: Cory Cat Fry: Moving them
            I have some week old cory cat fry. I want to move them to my other
            tank where they will more likely be safer. Do you think it's too
            soon to move them?
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 161 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 12/12/2003
            Subject: Re: more Algae Eaters
            SAE Update-> Re: "and what is hopefully a Siamese Algae Eater(SAE)-
            the owner of the store wasn't sure if it was the real thing or not."
            Well it is NOT a true SAE, and he knew but lied, I called (Wet Pets)
            to ask about his return policy and he offered store credit. Then I
            asked if he knew of any place that has the real SAEs and he
            said 'nobody has them', another lie. I do not understand how they
            stay in business w/ such poor ethics, California does have a
            strict "Truth in Advertising" Law. I guess buyer beware.

            I bought 6 the same day from Albany Aquarium, a 2 hour drive from
            home, however they refer to them as 'Siamese Flying Foxes'. The price
            was 3 for $14.99 or $6+ each. They are listed as 1 of 2 known
            importers in the the US on this website-
            http://www.aquatic-gardeners.org/cyprinid.html
            "...Now, we know about at least 2 suppliers of this fish in the U.S. -
            - The Albany Aquarium, an aquarium store in Albany, CA, imports them
            directly from Southeast Asia. They were willing to ship Overnight
            Federal Express directly to hobbyists. Contact:
            Albany Aquarium, 818 San Pablo Ave., Albany, CA 94706 (510)525-1166.
            Southern Tropical Fish, a tropical fish wholesaler in Lakeland,
            Florida is currently importing..."
            They also have the greatest variety of aquatic plants I have ever
            seen, as well as beautiful display tanks. I saw some 'Lyretail
            Endlers' and many other hard to find and rare fish. If your ever in
            Berkeley CA it is worth a visit.

            So when I was calling all the lfs in town that day, there are 5 here
            and 3 more in the next town, none had any SAEs. The one I used to
            frequent (Aquapet) prior to discovering my current favorite (Village
            Pet Shop), said he had none. He did offer 'Algae Eating Sharks' which
            I'd never heard of and tried to research, but found nothing. He
            said 'they are docile and only get about 3"', so I checked them out
            today out of curiosity and they are SAEs. How frustrating, he's only
            1 mile away, but doesn't know what his fish are.

            Is it 'normal' for fish, particularlly SAEs, to have so many differnt
            common names that it confuses even the lfs?

            Has anyone else had similar experiences?

            I asked Bob at Village Pet Shop what kind of snail it was that I
            bought last month. He called it a Mystery Snail, which I've heard of,
            but know nothing about other than from observation. It has very
            expensive TASTE for Plants and a Healthy appetite for everything else
            except Algae. This thing has more than doubled in size from about
            ping-pong to raquetball. It will quickly devour any food it finds.
            The shrimp pellets and other big food items my fish nibble at, it
            just simple shoves in its mouth. He also has a couple very large,
            about softball size, Apple Snails. I have a bunch of Malaysian
            Trumpet Snails (MTS) that I got from him as well. I've been looking
            all around for these and couldn't find them anywhere. Apparently they
            are the only lfs that has them and I didn't even know what they were
            when I got them a few weeks ago.
            I have several other kinds of little snails that appear to be eating
            the Algae, and hoped the big Mystery Snail would do the same.

            Andody know about the Mystery Snails, mine is Yellow if that matters.

            Does anyone have experience w/ the 'Golden Algae Eaters? I'd like to
            get some, but am concerend they get lazy when big and/or aggressive.
            Are they similar to Chinese Algae Eaters?

            Thanks,
            Aaron

            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron R.
            Martin, cmt" <massagetherapist@m...> wrote:
            > Hi all,
            >
            > I bought some more Alge Eaters today and am looking for suggestions
            > on more varities. I got a 'Red-eye Chocolate Pleco', an 'Albino
            Dwarf
            > Bushy-nose Pleco', and what is hopefully a Siamese Algae Eater(SAE)-
            > the owner of the store wasn't sure if it was the real thing or not.
            > How does one determine a true SAE anyway?
            > I plan on getting some golden algae eaters later. I had a large
            > Chinese Algae Eater that I borrowed from a friend, but it was too
            big
            > and a bit aggresive. I have had the regular plecos in the past, but
            > they get really huge fast. I already have a couple(dwarf?)clown
            > plecos, 10 otos and lots of misc. little snails. I hear Malaysian
            > Trumpet Snails (MTS) are good for the substrate, but can't find any
            > locally. I want docile and small fish.
            > Any good places to buy some MTS?
            > I want to get some different shrimp, I've heard that Amano shrimp
            are
            > great at cleaning Java Moss.
            > Any other shrimp that are good algae eaters and/or bottom cleaners
            > that won't harm fry?
            > Those golden-clawed Crabs Kelly was talking about sound
            interesting,
            > but I haven't seen them for sale anywhere.
            >
            > What else will eat algae besides snails, shrimp and the fish I
            > already have?
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 162 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 12/12/2003
            Subject: Re: more Algae Eaters
            In a message dated 12/12/2003 12:08:10 AM Pacific Standard Time, aaron_r_martin@... writes:
            ers' and many other hard to find and rare fish. If your ever in
            Berkeley CA it is worth a visit.
            Did they move from Albany to Berkeley?
            Do you have their new address?
             
            Mike
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 163 From: Dom Date: 12/12/2003
            Subject: Re: more Algae Eaters
            Wow...$6 for a Flying Fox is damn expensive. In Malaysia selling for
            RM1.5 that's mean it is around USD$0.40 only.
            The golden algae eater is smiliar and a bit aggressive than CAE. but
            the result of cleaning the algae same with CAE.

            The yellow snails you mentioned is it the flat type or a big round
            type like an apple? If big round type like an apple. normally we
            called it Apple Snail. They work very well to clean up the algae on
            all kind of plants. Most of my algae on Java Moss disappear after I
            putting in this type of snail. There are in yellow, orange and red
            color.

            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron R.
            Martin, cmt" <aaron_r_martin@h...> wrote:
            > SAE Update-> Re: "and what is hopefully a Siamese Algae Eater(SAE)-
            > the owner of the store wasn't sure if it was the real thing or not."
            > Well it is NOT a true SAE, and he knew but lied, I called (Wet Pets)
            > to ask about his return policy and he offered store credit. Then I
            > asked if he knew of any place that has the real SAEs and he
            > said 'nobody has them', another lie. I do not understand how they
            > stay in business w/ such poor ethics, California does have a
            > strict "Truth in Advertising" Law. I guess buyer beware.
            >
            > I bought 6 the same day from Albany Aquarium, a 2 hour drive from
            > home, however they refer to them as 'Siamese Flying Foxes'. The
            price
            > was 3 for $14.99 or $6+ each. They are listed as 1 of 2 known
            > importers in the the US on this website-
            > http://www.aquatic-gardeners.org/cyprinid.html
            > "...Now, we know about at least 2 suppliers of this fish in the
            U.S. -
            > - The Albany Aquarium, an aquarium store in Albany, CA, imports
            them
            > directly from Southeast Asia. They were willing to ship Overnight
            > Federal Express directly to hobbyists. Contact:
            > Albany Aquarium, 818 San Pablo Ave., Albany, CA 94706 (510)525-1166.
            > Southern Tropical Fish, a tropical fish wholesaler in Lakeland,
            > Florida is currently importing..."
            > They also have the greatest variety of aquatic plants I have ever
            > seen, as well as beautiful display tanks. I saw some 'Lyretail
            > Endlers' and many other hard to find and rare fish. If your ever in
            > Berkeley CA it is worth a visit.
            >
            > So when I was calling all the lfs in town that day, there are 5
            here
            > and 3 more in the next town, none had any SAEs. The one I used to
            > frequent (Aquapet) prior to discovering my current favorite
            (Village
            > Pet Shop), said he had none. He did offer 'Algae Eating Sharks'
            which
            > I'd never heard of and tried to research, but found nothing. He
            > said 'they are docile and only get about 3"', so I checked them out
            > today out of curiosity and they are SAEs. How frustrating, he's
            only
            > 1 mile away, but doesn't know what his fish are.
            >
            > Is it 'normal' for fish, particularlly SAEs, to have so many
            differnt
            > common names that it confuses even the lfs?
            >
            > Has anyone else had similar experiences?
            >
            > I asked Bob at Village Pet Shop what kind of snail it was that I
            > bought last month. He called it a Mystery Snail, which I've heard
            of,
            > but know nothing about other than from observation. It has very
            > expensive TASTE for Plants and a Healthy appetite for everything
            else
            > except Algae. This thing has more than doubled in size from about
            > ping-pong to raquetball. It will quickly devour any food it finds.
            > The shrimp pellets and other big food items my fish nibble at, it
            > just simple shoves in its mouth. He also has a couple very large,
            > about softball size, Apple Snails. I have a bunch of Malaysian
            > Trumpet Snails (MTS) that I got from him as well. I've been looking
            > all around for these and couldn't find them anywhere. Apparently
            they
            > are the only lfs that has them and I didn't even know what they
            were
            > when I got them a few weeks ago.
            > I have several other kinds of little snails that appear to be
            eating
            > the Algae, and hoped the big Mystery Snail would do the same.
            >
            > Andody know about the Mystery Snails, mine is Yellow if that
            matters.
            >
            > Does anyone have experience w/ the 'Golden Algae Eaters? I'd like
            to
            > get some, but am concerend they get lazy when big and/or
            aggressive.
            > Are they similar to Chinese Algae Eaters?
            >
            > Thanks,
            > Aaron
            >
            > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron R.
            > Martin, cmt" <massagetherapist@m...> wrote:
            > > Hi all,
            > >
            > > I bought some more Alge Eaters today and am looking for
            suggestions
            > > on more varities. I got a 'Red-eye Chocolate Pleco', an 'Albino
            > Dwarf
            > > Bushy-nose Pleco', and what is hopefully a Siamese Algae Eater
            (SAE)-
            > > the owner of the store wasn't sure if it was the real thing or
            not.
            > > How does one determine a true SAE anyway?
            > > I plan on getting some golden algae eaters later. I had a large
            > > Chinese Algae Eater that I borrowed from a friend, but it was too
            > big
            > > and a bit aggresive. I have had the regular plecos in the past,
            but
            > > they get really huge fast. I already have a couple(dwarf?)clown
            > > plecos, 10 otos and lots of misc. little snails. I hear Malaysian
            > > Trumpet Snails (MTS) are good for the substrate, but can't find
            any
            > > locally. I want docile and small fish.
            > > Any good places to buy some MTS?
            > > I want to get some different shrimp, I've heard that Amano shrimp
            > are
            > > great at cleaning Java Moss.
            > > Any other shrimp that are good algae eaters and/or bottom
            cleaners
            > > that won't harm fry?
            > > Those golden-clawed Crabs Kelly was talking about sound
            > interesting,
            > > but I haven't seen them for sale anywhere.
            > >
            > > What else will eat algae besides snails, shrimp and the fish I
            > > already have?
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 164 From: Aaron Martin Date: 12/12/2003
            Subject: Re: more Algae Eaters

            Berkeley and Albany are right next to each other, however I thought NY has the more well known Albany and I used Berkeley as a better georaphical reference to try and avoid (while apparently causing) confusion. The address is 818 San Pablo Ave., an easy 3 mile drive from U.C. Berkeley.

            >...-- The Albany Aquarium, an aquarium store in Albany, CA, imports them directly from Southeast Asia. They were willing to ship Overnight Federal Express directly to hobbyists.

            Contact:

            Albany Aquarium
            818 San Pablo Ave.
            Albany, CA 94706
            (510) 525-1166

            speaking of Berkeley, have you ever heard of a store called ' the Octopus'? It is not listed in the phone book, but is rather popular. I think its on a main street like Shattuck. I'd like to visit there if I can find it.


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Deenerz@...
            Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 03:19:45 EST
            To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: more Algae Eaters

            In a message dated 12/12/2003 12:08:10 AM Pacific Standard Time, aaron_r_martin@... writes:
            ers' and many other hard to find and rare fish. If your ever in
            Berkeley CA it is worth a visit.
            Did they move from Albany to Berkeley?
            Do you have their new address?
             
            Mike


            To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


            Aaron R. Martin, cmt
            
            (925) 337-2340
            
            Livermore CA (San Francisco Bay Area)
            
             
            
            got Fish? ~ do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!
            
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium
            
            stop by and see ~ membership is free!
            
            --

            ___________________________________________________________
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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 165 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 12/12/2003
            Subject: Re: more Algae Eaters
            In a message dated 12/12/2003 12:38:42 AM Pacific Standard Time, massagetherapist@... writes:

            speaking of Berkeley, have you ever heard of a store called ' the Octopus'? It is not listed in the phone book, but is rather popular. I think its on a main street like Shattuck. I'd like to visit there if I can find it.

            Yes, it is a great store,
            Right off Ashby and Shattuck.
            Well worth the trip. 
            Mike
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 166 From: Kelly Date: 12/14/2003
            Subject: Fish Confusion
            WOW am I ever both baffled and angry at one of our local pet stores.

            A couple of Months ago we went to the LPS that we seldom EVER go to,
            do to tank conditions etc, dirty cages, high prices etc etc.. We
            bought what we thought were 2 Platty's for my daughter who demanded
            that we needed more COLOR in our community tank. Needless to say one
            of them died within a week or 2, but the other is alive and kicking..
            HOWEVER... I looked at her about 3-4 weeks ago and thought OMG this
            thing is soooooo pregnant and it came on overnight as I check ALL of
            my fish over MANY times a day, and is going to bust any minute. I
            then took her out of the tank and put her in my "mommy and Baby"
            tank. After a couple of days in the breeding net she did not have any
            babies or even seem like she was going to. She was just fat. Well.. I
            did this back and forth from tank to tank with her 3 times and
            finally said NO MORE.. I packed her up and took her back to the LPS
            where we were told that she was a balloon belly Molly and not
            pregnant... I thought it odd, as she sure didn't look like any of
            the mollies I have here in the face.. But not being familar with
            balloon mollies I brought her back home and put her back into the
            community tank. She stays fat and healthy ( luckily with all the
            back and forths that she went through)..

            Yesterday I got up early.. did my usual head count and checked on the
            pregnant moms that I am breeding etc.. I ran to the store for about 2
            hours and came back only to find that my "balloon Molly" was now
            skinny and Not ONE baby could be found because she was in the
            community tank.. I was sooooooooooooo mad....

            Of course that LPS has since closed, but I now believe that I
            actually DO have a Platy....... However.. this poor thing was
            pregnant and HUGE for OVER a month.. I only breed Mollies, Guppies
            and Swordtails, so I have NO information on platy's at all... How
            long are they pregnant for?? Do they always blow up and stay that
            way for weeks and weeks?? Will she fair well in a community tank
            with no male??

            Sorry that this is so long, but I am so mad, angry and confused... I
            also know NOTHING about Platy's and apparently need to learn a thing
            or 2.

            Thanks so much!
            Kelly
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 167 From: colonleywife Date: 12/14/2003
            Subject: Dust? Algae? Eggs?
            I am clueless once again. My fish look completely fine, but I can
            see stuff on the leaves and branches of my artificial plants/leaves.
            They are about the size of tiny oxygen bubbles and almost
            look "fuzzy."
            You can't see them unless you look really close against the light of
            the tank. It's hard to describe too.
            I can't see any kind of eyes, movement, color, etc. Maybe they are
            little circles of dust or something? They are pretty much round in
            shape and the "shell" or outer edging looks like it's "dusty."
            They are pretty much clear...or foggy looking.

            I've been on the net trying to find ANYTHING that looks like
            this...does this sound like bacteria...algae starting...eggs...what?!?

            Thanks!
            Teresa
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 168 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 12/14/2003
            Subject: Re: Fish Confusion
            Hi Kelly,
            I have had similar experiences, I too am learning about breeding the
            Livebearers. So far I am still having difficulty telling the
            difference between Female Swordtails and Platies when they are very
            young. Platies are very much like Swordtails and will interbreed w/
            eachother. I currently have some fry that are mixed Mickey Mouse
            Platy and Marigold Swordtail.
            Thats good that you have a seperate materinty ('Mommy & Baby') tank.
            I use a 10 gallon w/ sponge filter and several inches deep of Java
            Moss on the bottom and lots of Hornwort floating on top.
            I'm just guessing here, the expectant mother may have somehow as an
            instinct delayed her fry from being delivered if she was uncomfotable
            w/ her surrondings or stressed. Being in a community tank w/ lots of
            potential predators and then being transfered several times into the
            smaller tank w/ which she was unfamiliar could have made her wait to
            drop the fry. I no longer use the breeding nets for the Mothers, I
            instead scoop up the new fry and transfer them into the net, that way
            it is less stress on the mother by not being confined to such a
            cramped space. It sounds like once she finally got back into the
            bigger tank w/ more hiding space she decided she had waited as long
            as she could.
            How big is your main community tank and seperate Mommy & Baby tank?
            What kind of plants, decorations, caves, logs or other hiding spaces
            are there? What color is the Platy?
            It is my understanding that Females can stay pregnant for as many as
            8 terms (months), that is they can have as many as 8 batches of fry
            from a single encounter w/ the male. I do not buy males anymore for
            the simple reason that they are not not nescessary, I only buy
            Pregnant Females, if they are not pregnant at the store they may not
            be able to get pregnant(i.e. sterile).
            Hope that Helps,
            Aaron

            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Kelly"
            <dreamz64@r...> wrote:
            > WOW am I ever both baffled and angry at one of our local pet
            stores.
            >
            > A couple of Months ago we went to the LPS that we seldom EVER go
            to,
            > do to tank conditions etc, dirty cages, high prices etc etc.. We
            > bought what we thought were 2 Platty's for my daughter who demanded
            > that we needed more COLOR in our community tank. Needless to say
            one
            > of them died within a week or 2, but the other is alive and
            kicking..
            > HOWEVER... I looked at her about 3-4 weeks ago and thought OMG this
            > thing is soooooo pregnant and it came on overnight as I check ALL
            of
            > my fish over MANY times a day, and is going to bust any minute. I
            > then took her out of the tank and put her in my "mommy and Baby"
            > tank. After a couple of days in the breeding net she did not have
            any
            > babies or even seem like she was going to. She was just fat. Well..
            I
            > did this back and forth from tank to tank with her 3 times and
            > finally said NO MORE.. I packed her up and took her back to the LPS
            > where we were told that she was a balloon belly Molly and not
            > pregnant... I thought it odd, as she sure didn't look like any of
            > the mollies I have here in the face.. But not being familar with
            > balloon mollies I brought her back home and put her back into the
            > community tank. She stays fat and healthy ( luckily with all the
            > back and forths that she went through)..
            >
            > Yesterday I got up early.. did my usual head count and checked on
            the
            > pregnant moms that I am breeding etc.. I ran to the store for about
            2
            > hours and came back only to find that my "balloon Molly" was now
            > skinny and Not ONE baby could be found because she was in the
            > community tank.. I was sooooooooooooo mad....
            >
            > Of course that LPS has since closed, but I now believe that I
            > actually DO have a Platy....... However.. this poor thing was
            > pregnant and HUGE for OVER a month.. I only breed Mollies, Guppies
            > and Swordtails, so I have NO information on platy's at all... How
            > long are they pregnant for?? Do they always blow up and stay that
            > way for weeks and weeks?? Will she fair well in a community tank
            > with no male??
            >
            > Sorry that this is so long, but I am so mad, angry and confused...
            I
            > also know NOTHING about Platy's and apparently need to learn a
            thing
            > or 2.
            >
            > Thanks so much!
            > Kelly
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 169 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 12/14/2003
            Subject: Re: Dust? Algae? Eggs?
            Hi Teresa,
            I have had Cory Cats and Tetras lay eggs all over the tank before and
            if the circulation was not enough in those areas the eggs would
            develop 'mold' or fungus like growth. Also I have several kinds of
            snails that are constantly laying eggs everywhere.
            What kinds of fish do you have? Have they laid eggs before that
            hatched? Do you have any pictures you can send?
            If its spherical, it sounds like eggs not Algae or bacteria.


            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "colonleywife"
            <colonleywife@y...> wrote:
            > I am clueless once again. My fish look completely fine, but I can
            > see stuff on the leaves and branches of my artificial plants/leaves.
            > They are about the size of tiny oxygen bubbles and almost
            > look "fuzzy."
            > You can't see them unless you look really close against the light
            of
            > the tank. It's hard to describe too.
            > I can't see any kind of eyes, movement, color, etc. Maybe they are
            > little circles of dust or something? They are pretty much round in
            > shape and the "shell" or outer edging looks like it's "dusty."
            > They are pretty much clear...or foggy looking.
            >
            > I've been on the net trying to find ANYTHING that looks like
            > this...does this sound like bacteria...algae
            starting...eggs...what?!?
            >
            > Thanks!
            > Teresa
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 170 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 12/14/2003
            Subject: Re: Dust? Algae? Eggs?
            there is a picture of some eggs available in the photos section


            http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/freshwatertropicalfishaquarium/vw
            p?.dir=/&.src=gr&.dnm=Eggs+130Tank11-09-02sm.jpg&.view=t&.done=http%
            3a//photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/freshwatertropicalfishaquarium/lst%
            3f%26.dir=/%26.src=gr%26.view=t

            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "colonleywife"
            <colonleywife@y...> wrote:
            > I am clueless once again. My fish look completely fine, but I can
            > see stuff on the leaves and branches of my artificial plants/leaves.
            > They are about the size of tiny oxygen bubbles and almost
            > look "fuzzy."
            > You can't see them unless you look really close against the light
            of
            > the tank. It's hard to describe too.
            > I can't see any kind of eyes, movement, color, etc. Maybe they are
            > little circles of dust or something? They are pretty much round in
            > shape and the "shell" or outer edging looks like it's "dusty."
            > They are pretty much clear...or foggy looking.
            >
            > I've been on the net trying to find ANYTHING that looks like
            > this...does this sound like bacteria...algae
            starting...eggs...what?!?
            >
            > Thanks!
            > Teresa
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 171 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 12/14/2003
            Subject: The Octopus's Garden ~ A great lfs
            Hi all,
            I just had the best customer service experience at this place. It is
            called 'The Octopus's Garden', in Berkeley CA. They have been open
            about 6 months and are about 3000 square feet in size. The tanks are
            set up real nice and there is a great variety of fish and plants and
            other aquatic life available, even some really rare exotic fish,
            several for $299.00 each.
            They have a web site: http://www.tog-net.com , with a few pics of
            the store inside & out. The outside is covered in a huge mural that
            looks like a big aqaurium, incuding the the namesake Octopus.
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 172 From: amalthea23 Date: 12/14/2003
            Subject: Re: The Octopus's Garden ~ A great lfs
            does anyone on this list live in ny? and if so, have you heard of any
            small pet stores on the island that are reputable? the best one in town
            recently closed down much to my shagrin.
            amalthea
            On Sunday, December 14, 2003, at 06:53 PM, Aaron R. Martin, cmt wrote:

            > Hi all,
            > I just had the best customer service experience at this place. It is
            > called 'The Octopus's Garden', in Berkeley CA. They have been open
            > about 6 months and are about 3000 square feet in size. The tanks are
            > set up real nice and there is a great variety of fish and plants and
            > other aquatic life available, even some really rare exotic fish,
            > several for $299.00 each.
            > They have a web site: http://www.tog-net.com ,  with a few pics of
            > the store inside & out. The outside is covered in a huge mural that
            > looks like a big aqaurium, incuding the the namesake Octopus.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            <image.tiff>
            >
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


            http://www.puppetterrors.com
            don't be afraid to scream...
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 173 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 12/14/2003
            Subject: What/Where is your favorite Local Fish Store (lfs) ?
            Hi all,
            Just curious where you all go to get your fish and supplies. I travel
            a lot and one of my favorite things to check out in a new town,
            besides the restrauants, is all the local fish stores, especially the
            small mom & pop type shops. It would be great to have everybody list
            their personal favorites, either in their hometown, or those they've
            been to and/or heard of anywhere. I have created a LFS folder in the
            links section for this purpose. I have been to about 17 here in the
            San Francisco Bay Area, and thats just in the East Bay, so I know
            there are many more around here I have not been to yet. I am
            particularly interested in those around the San Diego and the Los
            Angeles area as I travel there almost every month, as well as any in
            Arizona, Wisconsin, greater Chicago area, New York, Florida, Oregon,
            Washington State and Vancouver Canada as I visit these places
            occasionally to see family and friends.
            Thanks,
            Aaron
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 174 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 12/14/2003
            Subject: Re: What/Where is your favorite Local Fish S...
            In a message dated 12/14/2003 4:10:07 PM Pacific Standard Time, massagetherapist@... writes:
            Just curious where you all go to get your fish and supplies. I travel
            a lot and one of my favorite things to check out in a new town,
            besides the restrauants, is all the local fish stores, especially the
            small mom & pop type shops. It would be great to have everybody list
            Aaron,
            Have you been to "All About Fish" in Pleasant Hill yet?
            They were my LFS vefore I moved.  THey were on CNN the other day when CNN needed some sound bites about the Glofish.
            Mike
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 175 From: Rob And Joyce Date: 12/15/2003
            Subject: Re: more Algae Eaters
            Hey all, got this club from Aaron posting it at another board that's been transformed into an adult site somehow. I bring 36 years of fish keeping experience and a passion for the hobby, but there's always room for learning. about the chocolate pleco, it gets as big as a common. The chinese and golden algae eaters are the same species, just selectively bred to look different and they are all aggressive, prefering the slime on the other fish over food or algae after they reach 3-4 inches. As you can imagine, septicemia is quick to follow. Nice to join you all, Rob.
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 176 From: vincer12001 Date: 12/15/2003
            Subject: http://www.ukcaa.co.uk/rarefish/index.php?act=idx
            new beautiful site i found go join
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 177 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 12/16/2003
            Subject: Re: more Algae Eaters
            Hi Rob,
            Welcome to the group. Thats pretty much what I figured about the CAE
            and Golden, however I did not realize the detail of potential
            destructiveness w/ eating off the slime coat and all. Thats too bad
            about the chocolate Pleco, at least I'll be able to enjoy it for
            awhile.
            Is there an average time it takes Plecos to reach full size (18") ?

            I've never had one live this long, the other 2 common plecos were
            heavily infested w/ ick when I bought them and died w/in a week.

            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Rob And
            Joyce" <bucksboogielive@y...> wrote:
            > Hey all, got this club from Aaron posting it at another board
            that's been transformed into an adult site somehow. I bring 36 years
            of fish keeping experience and a passion for the hobby, but there's
            always room for learning. about the chocolate pleco, it gets as big
            as a common. The chinese and golden algae eaters are the same
            species, just selectively bred to look different and they are all
            aggressive, prefering the slime on the other fish over food or algae
            after they reach 3-4 inches. As you can imagine, septicemia is quick
            to follow. Nice to join you all, Rob.
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 178 From: PRABHU G P L Date: 12/16/2003
            Subject: Size of Kuhli loach
            Dear Members,
             
             
            Can anybody tell me the size of Kuhli loach(length and width)
             
             
            Prabhu G P L
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 179 From: amalthea23 Date: 12/16/2003
            Subject: Re: more Algae Eaters
            i have a common pleco who's ben with me for about a year. i bought him
            when he was quite small, about 1 and 1/2", and he quickly grew to his
            current 5", but he's since stayed about the same size. he seems very
            happy, he's a voracious eater and has even gotten over his nocturnal
            tendencies somewhat. does anyone know if it's normal for some plecos to
            stay relatively small?
            amalthea
            On Tuesday, December 16, 2003, at 03:51 AM, Aaron R. Martin, cmt wrote:

            > Hi Rob,
            > Welcome to the group. Thats pretty much what I figured about the CAE
            > and Golden, however I did not realize the detail of potential
            > destructiveness w/ eating off the slime coat and all. Thats too bad
            > about the chocolate Pleco, at least I'll be able to enjoy it for
            > awhile.
            > Is there an average time it takes Plecos to reach full size (18") ?
            >


            http://www.puppetterrors.com
            don't be afraid to scream...
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 180 From: amalthea23 Date: 12/16/2003
            Subject: Re: Size of Kuhli loach
            i've had a few kuhli loaches (they're fantastic fish, btw, but just be
            sure the filter intake has a good screen, as they will swim into it
            constantly) and the largest mine seem to get is a little over 4" long
            and a little less than 1/2" wide.
            amalthea
            On Tuesday, December 16, 2003, at 04:03 AM, PRABHU G P L wrote:

            > Dear Members,
            >  
            >  
            > Can anybody tell me the size of Kuhli loach(length and width)
            >  
            >  
            > Prabhu G P L
            >
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            >
            >
            >
            <image.tiff>
            >
            >
            <image.tiff>
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
            >  
            > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >  
            > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
            >
            >


            http://www.puppetterrors.com
            don't be afraid to scream...
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 181 From: aaron_r_martin@hotmail.com Date: 12/16/2003
            Subject: planted substrate questions
            Hi everybody,

            I am stocking up on Ingredients for my amateur Substrate Recipe and
            had some questions. This is my first time trying a real Planted Tank,
            I currently have tanks with plants, but they are not the same things.

            So far I have:
            55oz Pure Laterite,
            3 dry quarts Supersoil brand Vermiculite,
            8 dry quarts Scotts brand Sphagnum Peat Moss (not planning on using
            it all),
            20 pounds Schultz brand Aquatic Plant Soil (so far the least
            expensive, only $5.98 each 10 LB bag),
            15 lbs. CaribSea brand Flora-Max,
            40 lbs. wet CaribSea brand Eco-Complete Planted Aquarium Substrate,
            12 lbs. Red Sea brand Flora Base,
            15.4 lbs. Seachem brand red Flourite,
            15.4 lbs. Seachem black Onyx Sand.
            ~ About. 122 lbs. total.

            I am still looking for Humus and the proper sub-soil to mix together
            with the Vermiculite and peat moss to use as the lower layer above
            the Laterite. Is Perlite worth using? Anybody have experience with
            soil for a substrate? I was reading about it in the research done by
            Jim Kelly at U.C. Davis, but now can't find the website.

            I want to use Heating Cables for the substrate, but do not know much
            about them, the only brand I've heard of is Dupla.
            Does anyone have experience with using heating cables?

            I was thinking about saving at least 1/2 the Onyx sand to use as the
            Top Layer. Should I mix all the commercial products together as an
            Upper layer or would it be better to layer them Individually? If I
            layered them separately, is there a particular order?

            I plan on using Flourish Tabs as fertilizer supplement and I have
            Kent, Tetra and Seachem brand liquid additives. I have been using
            Reverse Osmosis water reconstituted w/ Kent R/O right and pH stable,
            as well as collected Rainwater when available. The tap water here is
            really hard w/ a very high pH.

            I currently have a 55 and 10-gallon w/ fish and plants, as well as
            empty 40 and 12-gallon tanks I want to start soon. I am assuming the
            best way is to get the 40 & 12 planted and cycled in order to
            transfer the fish into them from the 55 & 10 and then plant those.
            (About 117 gallons total)

            I've got most of my information from the web:
            http://www.dupla.com/e005.htm
            http://www.aquabotanic.com/sfintro.htm
            http://aquaticconcepts.thekrib.com/Subm/index.htm
            http://aquaticconcepts.thekrib.com/Articles/PAM_Substrate.htm
            http://aquaticconcepts.thekrib.com/Shc/index.htm

            Aaron R. Martin, cmt ~ Livermore CA (San Francisco Bay Area)

            Got Fish? ~ Do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
            Stop by and see ~ membership is free!
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 182 From: PRABHU G P L Date: 12/17/2003
            Subject: Beard Algae-black green
            Can anybody help me in getting rid of this BEARD ALGAE..  I am fed up with this algae killing my valuable plants.  I am changing the water once in three days still there in decrease in its development.  I t is also sticking to the rocks and Aquarium glass.
             
             
            Prabhu G P L
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 183 From: Trevor Holyoak Date: 12/17/2003
            Subject: Re: Beard Algae-black green
            PRABHU G P L <gplp60@...> wrote:

            >Can anybody help me in getting rid of this BEARD ALGAE.. I am fed up with this algae killing my valuable plants. I am changing the water once in three days still there in decrease in its development. I t is also sticking to the rocks and Aquarium glass.
            >
            >
            >Prabhu G P L
            >
            >
            >
            Try using AlgaeFix. It's safe for plants.

            - Trevor
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 184 From: dreamz64@runbox.com Date: 12/17/2003
            Subject: Danio's
            Is anyone familar with Danio's??

            We recently were given 2 danios from a friend who closed down their
            tank. The first 2 weeks all was well, but over the past week, the
            Danio's have become more and more territorial. Each have their own
            space in our 30 gallon and will poke at and chase ANYTHING that comes
            into that territory. They even chase the dragon eel. I don't think
            they are harming any of the other fish, but the rest of the fish are
            avoiding those 2 area's and staying huddled in a cluster and I do not
            like that.

            any information on Danio's would be appreciated! I have read many
            articles that say that they are NOT territorial or aggressive, but I
            would like to hear from some that have had experience with them.

            Thank you!
            Kelly
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 185 From: polarisdude375@yahoo.com Date: 12/17/2003
            Subject: Re: Danio's
            I have had and do have a few different types of Danios in my tank. I
            have never seen the smaller (lepard, zebra) danio get territorial.
            The larger one is a different story. It never hurts anything but it
            definately lets the other fish in my tank know it is there. After
            they settle into the environment of the new tank I would bet you will
            notice a drop in their aggression level.

            Steve


            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, dreamz64@r...
            wrote:
            > Is anyone familar with Danio's??
            >
            > We recently were given 2 danios from a friend who closed down their
            > tank. The first 2 weeks all was well, but over the past week, the
            > Danio's have become more and more territorial. Each have their own
            > space in our 30 gallon and will poke at and chase ANYTHING that
            comes
            > into that territory. They even chase the dragon eel. I don't think
            > they are harming any of the other fish, but the rest of the fish
            are
            > avoiding those 2 area's and staying huddled in a cluster and I do
            not
            > like that.
            >
            > any information on Danio's would be appreciated! I have read many
            > articles that say that they are NOT territorial or aggressive, but
            I
            > would like to hear from some that have had experience with them.
            >
            > Thank you!
            > Kelly
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 186 From: polarisdude375@yahoo.com Date: 12/17/2003
            Subject: Re: planted substrate questions
            Aaron,

            Try 20 oz. peanut butter, 15 oz apricot preserve, 2 pieces of bread.
            Make PB&J then mix with substrate. It will give you the thrill of a
            lifetime watching your plants live on a PB&J diet! haha.. Just
            kidding.

            I know jack diddly about your plants. Good luck in finding the
            answers! Somebody help this good fellow! :)

            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com,
            aaron_r_martin@h... wrote:
            > Hi everybody,
            >
            > I am stocking up on Ingredients for my amateur Substrate Recipe and
            > had some questions. This is my first time trying a real Planted
            Tank,
            > I currently have tanks with plants, but they are not the same
            things.
            >
            > So far I have:
            > 55oz Pure Laterite,
            > 3 dry quarts Supersoil brand Vermiculite,
            > 8 dry quarts Scotts brand Sphagnum Peat Moss (not planning on using
            > it all),
            > 20 pounds Schultz brand Aquatic Plant Soil (so far the least
            > expensive, only $5.98 each 10 LB bag),
            > 15 lbs. CaribSea brand Flora-Max,
            > 40 lbs. wet CaribSea brand Eco-Complete Planted Aquarium Substrate,
            > 12 lbs. Red Sea brand Flora Base,
            > 15.4 lbs. Seachem brand red Flourite,
            > 15.4 lbs. Seachem black Onyx Sand.
            > ~ About. 122 lbs. total.
            >
            > I am still looking for Humus and the proper sub-soil to mix
            together
            > with the Vermiculite and peat moss to use as the lower layer above
            > the Laterite. Is Perlite worth using? Anybody have experience with
            > soil for a substrate? I was reading about it in the research done
            by
            > Jim Kelly at U.C. Davis, but now can't find the website.
            >
            > I want to use Heating Cables for the substrate, but do not know
            much
            > about them, the only brand I've heard of is Dupla.
            > Does anyone have experience with using heating cables?
            >
            > I was thinking about saving at least 1/2 the Onyx sand to use as
            the
            > Top Layer. Should I mix all the commercial products together as an
            > Upper layer or would it be better to layer them Individually? If I
            > layered them separately, is there a particular order?
            >
            > I plan on using Flourish Tabs as fertilizer supplement and I have
            > Kent, Tetra and Seachem brand liquid additives. I have been using
            > Reverse Osmosis water reconstituted w/ Kent R/O right and pH
            stable,
            > as well as collected Rainwater when available. The tap water here
            is
            > really hard w/ a very high pH.
            >
            > I currently have a 55 and 10-gallon w/ fish and plants, as well as
            > empty 40 and 12-gallon tanks I want to start soon. I am assuming
            the
            > best way is to get the 40 & 12 planted and cycled in order to
            > transfer the fish into them from the 55 & 10 and then plant those.
            > (About 117 gallons total)
            >
            > I've got most of my information from the web:
            > http://www.dupla.com/e005.htm
            > http://www.aquabotanic.com/sfintro.htm
            > http://aquaticconcepts.thekrib.com/Subm/index.htm
            > http://aquaticconcepts.thekrib.com/Articles/PAM_Substrate.htm
            > http://aquaticconcepts.thekrib.com/Shc/index.htm
            >
            > Aaron R. Martin, cmt ~ Livermore CA (San Francisco Bay Area)
            >
            > Got Fish? ~ Do you Yahoo? ~ I've got a group for you!
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
            > Stop by and see ~ membership is free!
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 187 From: sunil kamath Date: 12/17/2003
            Subject: Re: Beard Algae-black green
            I think the problem might be that you have high light,
            high CO2, but not high growth plants. The plants are
            using the ferts, but their slow growth rate (relative
            to the algae that is) means that the algae can grab
            some of those nutrients as well.

            You might want to plant a few fast growing stem plants
            in there and see if things work out.


            --- PRABHU G P L <gplp60@...> wrote:
            > Can anybody help me in getting rid of this BEARD
            > ALGAE.. I am fed up with this algae killing my
            > valuable plants. I am changing the water once in
            > three days still there in decrease in its
            > development. I t is also sticking to the rocks and
            > Aquarium glass.
            >
            >
            > Prabhu G P L
            >


            __________________________________
            Do you Yahoo!?
            New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
            http://photos.yahoo.com/
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 188 From: sunil kamath Date: 12/17/2003
            Subject: Re: Danio's
            dont mind but are you sure they are danios ??

            Cause i have 6 leopard danios in my community tank and
            they play among themselves and seldom chase or attack
            any other fish...

            --- dreamz64@... wrote:
            > Is anyone familar with Danio's??
            >
            > We recently were given 2 danios from a friend who
            > closed down their
            > tank. The first 2 weeks all was well, but over the
            > past week, the
            > Danio's have become more and more territorial. Each
            > have their own
            > space in our 30 gallon and will poke at and chase
            > ANYTHING that comes
            > into that territory. They even chase the dragon eel.
            > I don't think
            > they are harming any of the other fish, but the rest
            > of the fish are
            > avoiding those 2 area's and staying huddled in a
            > cluster and I do not
            > like that.
            >
            > any information on Danio's would be appreciated! I
            > have read many
            > articles that say that they are NOT territorial or
            > aggressive, but I
            > would like to hear from some that have had
            > experience with them.
            >
            > Thank you!
            > Kelly
            >
            >


            __________________________________
            Do you Yahoo!?
            New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
            http://photos.yahoo.com/
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 189 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 12/18/2003
            Subject: Re: Beard Algae-black green
            I recently had similar problems w/ Algae of many different kinds
            including the type you have. It started when I added new lights, 220
            watts compact, up from 30 watts regular. I had to only use 1/2 the
            light for 6 hours a day and gradually increased back to 12 hour
            max/day. I also added lots of Hornwort, a floating plant that is
            extremly fast growing, to absorb all the excess phosphates and other
            nutrients the Algae is thriving on.

            The best cure may be a product I just tried for the first time last
            week - ALGONE - it comes in little pouches that you put in your
            filter, 1 pouch is enough for 55 gallons. They are curently offering
            a Buy 1 get 1 Free special; http://www.algone.com/special.asp
            It is amazing how great this product works. I will forward to you
            seperatly the email they just sent me.

            What are your parameters? [tank size, placement (i.e. direct
            sunlight) , how long up & running, Ammonia, NitrIte/NitrAte, pH,
            GH/KH, water soluable Iron, lighting, fish - kind & quantity, plants,
            substrate, dosing/fertilizers etc...?] The more information you can
            provide = the better of a guess I can make.



            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, PRABHU G P L
            <gplp60@v...> wrote:
            > Can anybody help me in getting rid of this BEARD ALGAE.. I am fed
            up with this algae killing my valuable plants. I am changing the
            water once in three days still there in decrease in its development.
            I t is also sticking to the rocks and Aquarium glass.
            >
            >
            > Prabhu G P L
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 190 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 12/18/2003
            Subject: Re: Danio's
            Hi Kelly,

            I have had Zebra and Lepoard Danios and did not notice any aggressive
            or territorial behavior. I have heard that rearanging the
            decorations/plants when adding new fish or having that kind of
            problem can help them to adjust better.


            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, dreamz64@r...
            wrote:
            > Is anyone familar with Danio's??
            >
            > We recently were given 2 danios from a friend who closed down their
            > tank. The first 2 weeks all was well, but over the past week, the
            > Danio's have become more and more territorial. Each have their own
            > space in our 30 gallon and will poke at and chase ANYTHING that
            comes
            > into that territory. They even chase the dragon eel. I don't think
            > they are harming any of the other fish, but the rest of the fish
            are
            > avoiding those 2 area's and staying huddled in a cluster and I do
            not
            > like that.
            >
            > any information on Danio's would be appreciated! I have read many
            > articles that say that they are NOT territorial or aggressive, but
            I
            > would like to hear from some that have had experience with them.
            >
            > Thank you!
            > Kelly
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 191 From: John Russo Date: 12/18/2003
            Subject: Re: Danio's
            I have 3 Zebra Danio's and they too chace the other fish around but
            the fish actually seem to be playing. THe Danio's chase for a bit
            then the Neon Tetra's chase a bit...kind of cute to watch...but like
            other posts I have not heard of them being agressive...if you can
            post a pic of them so we can see what they look like...like said
            before they may not be true Danio's.

            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, dreamz64@r...
            wrote:
            > Is anyone familar with Danio's??
            >
            > We recently were given 2 danios from a friend who closed down their
            > tank. The first 2 weeks all was well, but over the past week, the
            > Danio's have become more and more territorial. Each have their own
            > space in our 30 gallon and will poke at and chase ANYTHING that
            comes
            > into that territory. They even chase the dragon eel. I don't think
            > they are harming any of the other fish, but the rest of the fish
            are
            > avoiding those 2 area's and staying huddled in a cluster and I do
            not
            > like that.
            >
            > any information on Danio's would be appreciated! I have read many
            > articles that say that they are NOT territorial or aggressive, but
            I
            > would like to hear from some that have had experience with them.
            >
            > Thank you!
            > Kelly
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 192 From: PRABHU G P L Date: 12/18/2003
            Subject: Re: Beard Algae-black green
            Tank size is 48x24x18.  Usually I put the light on for twelve hours a day. Iprovide CO2 by DIY method and through gas cylinder.  Required quantity of CO2 is not supplied. However Algae in on increase.  Itry your mwthod providing more of  Hornwort.  Thank you for your message.
             
            G P L Prabhu
            ---- Original Message -----
            Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 3:52 PM
            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Beard Algae-black green

            I recently had similar problems w/ Algae of many different kinds
            including the type you have. It started when I added new lights, 220
            watts compact, up from 30 watts regular. I had to only use 1/2 the
            light for 6 hours a day and gradually increased back to 12 hour
            max/day. I also added lots of Hornwort, a floating plant that is
            extremly fast growing, to absorb all the excess phosphates and other
            nutrients the Algae is thriving on.

            The best cure may be a product I just tried for the first time last
            week - ALGONE - it comes in little pouches that you put in your
            filter, 1 pouch is enough for 55 gallons. They are curently offering
            a Buy 1 get 1 Free special; http://www.algone.com/special.asp
            It is amazing how great this product works. I will forward to you
            seperatly the email they just sent me.

            What are your parameters? [tank size, placement (i.e. direct
            sunlight) , how long up & running, Ammonia, NitrIte/NitrAte, pH,
            GH/KH, water soluable Iron, lighting, fish - kind & quantity, plants,
            substrate, dosing/fertilizers etc...?] The more information you can
            provide = the better of a guess I can make.



            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, PRABHU G P L
            <gplp60@v...> wrote:
            > Can anybody help me in getting rid of this BEARD ALGAE..  I am fed
            up with this algae killing my valuable plants.  I am changing the
            water once in three days still there in decrease in its development. 
            I t is also sticking to the rocks and Aquarium glass.
            >
            >
            > Prabhu G P L



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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 193 From: Heather Date: 12/18/2003
            Subject: Re: Danio's
            I've had zebra danios for as long as I can remember
            (10 in my tank now) and they have never been
            aggressive. What type of danio do you have? Are they
            the normal kind or do they have the long fins? Maybe
            the new environment has them spooked and they are
            trying to protect themselves amongst all the new fish
            and surroundings.

            Heather


            --- dreamz64@... wrote:
            > Is anyone familar with Danio's??
            >
            > We recently were given 2 danios from a friend who
            > closed down their
            > tank. The first 2 weeks all was well, but over the
            > past week, the
            > Danio's have become more and more territorial. Each
            > have their own
            > space in our 30 gallon and will poke at and chase
            > ANYTHING that comes
            > into that territory. They even chase the dragon eel.
            > I don't think
            > they are harming any of the other fish, but the rest
            > of the fish are
            > avoiding those 2 area's and staying huddled in a
            > cluster and I do not
            > like that.
            >
            > any information on Danio's would be appreciated! I
            > have read many
            > articles that say that they are NOT territorial or
            > aggressive, but I
            > would like to hear from some that have had
            > experience with them.
            >
            > Thank you!
            > Kelly
            >
            >


            __________________________________
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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 194 From: ~~~Kelly~~~ Date: 12/18/2003
            Subject: Re: Danio's
             
             Thank you all so much for your answers, suggestions and information.
             
            We had to go to the LFS last night anyways as he was ready to buy a few of the 4-6" Black Moor's that we raise in our pond for him and I just took the 2 danios with us and gave them back to him...
             
            We had one Giant and one Zebra and he said the same thing...... they need to be in school of 6 or more..... But either way I am Ok with our choice to give them back to him...... LOL
             
            hugs,
             Kelly
            -------Original Message-------
             
            Date: 12/17/2003 07:47:19 PM
            Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Danio's
             
            I have had and do have a few different types of Danios in my tank.  I
            have never seen the smaller (lepard, zebra) danio get territorial. 
            The larger one is a different story.  It never hurts anything but it
            definately lets the other fish in my tank know it is there.  After
            they settle into the environment of the new tank I would bet you will
            notice a drop in their aggression level.

            Steve


            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, dreamz64@r...
            wrote:
            > Is anyone familar with Danio's??
            >
            > We recently were given 2 danios from a friend who closed down their
            > tank.  The first  2 weeks all was well, but over the past week, the
            > Danio's have become more and more territorial. Each have their own
            > space in our 30 gallon and will poke at and chase ANYTHING that
            comes
            > into that territory. They even chase the dragon eel.  I don't think
            > they are harming any of the other fish, but the rest of the fish
            are
            > avoiding those 2 area's and staying huddled in a cluster and I do
            not
            > like that.
            >
            > any information on Danio's would be appreciated!   I have read many
            > articles that say that they are NOT territorial or aggressive, but
            I
            > would like to hear from some that have had experience with them.
            >
            > Thank you!
            > Kelly



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            FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com





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            Group: AquaticLife Message: 195 From: Sarah Date: 12/18/2003
            Subject: Hi, We are new!!!!
            Hi everyone,

            My name is Sarah and my Partner is Tony, We own a 100 litre
            freshwater aquarium which has guppies (with babies), mollies, clown
            loaches, Red finned shark, Clown Plec, neons, apple snails, angel,
            and some blue lamp eye's.

            We have a question for the group. Has anyone out there got any info
            on these lamp eye's?.We are sure they are related to the tetra
            family. If anyone would like to see a photo we would be happy to
            post one on the group. We have tried looking on the internet for
            information on these fish but have founf nothing!!!. We have a male
            and female that have paired themselves up and the female is rubbing
            herself in between the plants and the male then follows her and does
            the same. But there is no sight of fry or eggs....YET!!!....lol

            If someone could help that is great

            Kind Regards

            Sarah & Tony
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 196 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 12/18/2003
            Subject: Re: Hi, We are new!!!!
            Hi Sarah,

            Welcome to the group.
            I have not heard of the Lamp Eyes before, but would love to see some
            pictures of them.
            Thanks,
            Aaron

            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Sarah"
            <sarah@f...> wrote:
            > Hi everyone,
            >
            > My name is Sarah and my Partner is Tony, We own a 100 litre
            > freshwater aquarium which has guppies (with babies), mollies, clown
            > loaches, Red finned shark, Clown Plec, neons, apple snails, angel,
            > and some blue lamp eye's.
            >
            > We have a question for the group. Has anyone out there got any info
            > on these lamp eye's?.We are sure they are related to the tetra
            > family. If anyone would like to see a photo we would be happy to
            > post one on the group. We have tried looking on the internet for
            > information on these fish but have founf nothing!!!. We have a male
            > and female that have paired themselves up and the female is rubbing
            > herself in between the plants and the male then follows her and
            does
            > the same. But there is no sight of fry or eggs....YET!!!....lol
            >
            > If someone could help that is great
            >
            > Kind Regards
            >
            > Sarah & Tony
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 197 From: daniel_roachus Date: 12/18/2003
            Subject: Re: Hi, We are new!!!!
            --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron R.
            Martin, cmt" <aaron_r_martin@h...> wrote:
            > Hi Sarah,
            >
            > Welcome to the group.
            > I have not heard of the Lamp Eyes before, but would love to see
            some
            > pictures of them.
            > Thanks,
            > Aaron

            courtesy of one of my fave fish sites:

            http://www.fishprofiles.com/profiles/fw/profile.asp?
            id=Moenkhausia+sanctaefilomenae


            >
            > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Sarah"
            > <sarah@f...> wrote:
            > > Hi everyone,
            > >
            > > My name is Sarah and my Partner is Tony, We own a 100 litre
            > > freshwater aquarium which has guppies (with babies), mollies,
            clown
            > > loaches, Red finned shark, Clown Plec, neons, apple snails,
            angel,
            > > and some blue lamp eye's.
            > >
            > > We have a question for the group. Has anyone out there got any
            info
            > > on these lamp eye's?.We are sure they are related to the tetra
            > > family. If anyone would like to see a photo we would be happy to
            > > post one on the group. We have tried looking on the internet for
            > > information on these fish but have founf nothing!!!. We have a
            male
            > > and female that have paired themselves up and the female is
            rubbing
            > > herself in between the plants and the male then follows her and
            > does
            > > the same. But there is no sight of fry or eggs....YET!!!....lol
            > >
            > > If someone could help that is great
            > >
            > > Kind Regards
            > >
            > > Sarah & Tony
            Group: AquaticLife Message: 198 From: Sarah Date: 12/18/2003
            Subject: Re: Hi, We are new!!!!
            Attachments :
              Hi,
               
              Here is a pic of the blue lamp eye's. We have just found they are tetras 
               
              Regards
               
              Sarah & Tony
               
              -------Original Message-------
               
              Date: 18 December 2003 21:23:36
              Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Hi, We are new!!!!
               
              --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron R.
              Martin, cmt" <aaron_r_martin@h...> wrote:
              > Hi Sarah,
              >
              > Welcome to the group.
              > I have not heard of the Lamp Eyes before, but would love to see
              some
              > pictures of them.
              > Thanks,
              > Aaron

              courtesy of one of my fave fish sites:

              http://www.fishprofiles.com/profiles/fw/profile.asp?
              id=Moenkhausia+sanctaefilomenae


              >
              > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Sarah"
              > <sarah@f...> wrote:
              > > Hi everyone,
              > >
              > > My name is Sarah and my Partner is Tony, We own a 100 litre
              > > freshwater aquarium which has guppies (with babies), mollies,
              clown
              > > loaches, Red finned shark, Clown Plec, neons, apple snails,
              angel,
              > > and some blue lamp eye's.
              > >
              > > We have a question for the group. Has anyone out there got any
              info
              > > on these lamp eye's?.We are sure they are related to the tetra
              > > family. If anyone would like to see a photo we would be happy to
              > > post one on the group. We have tried looking on the internet for
              > > information on these fish but have founf nothing!!!. We have a
              male
              > > and female that have paired themselves up and the female is
              rubbing
              > > herself in between the plants and the male then follows her and
              > does
              > > the same. But there is no sight of fry or eggs....YET!!!....lol
              > >
              > > If someone could help that is great
              > >
              > > Kind Regards
              > >
              > > Sarah & Tony



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              FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com





              Yahoo! Groups Links

               
              Group: AquaticLife Message: 199 From: PRABHU G P L Date: 12/19/2003
              Subject: Re: Hi, We are new!!!!
              good collections.  keep it up. 
               
              But we, chaps ,.in India are very unfortunate.  And nobody get us good verities even lots and lots of aquariums are scattered through India,   They supply locally bred live bearers and repeated items and I am really fed up going to the shops.
               
               
              Thank you for the picture of the fish.
               
              Regards, Prabhu G P L
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Sarah
              Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 3:39 AM
              Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Hi, We are new!!!!

              Hi,
               
              Here is a pic of the blue lamp eye's. We have just found they are tetras 
               
              Regards
               
              Sarah & Tony
               
              -------Original Message-------
               
              Date: 18 December 2003 21:23:36
              Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Hi, We are new!!!!
               
              --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron R.
              Martin, cmt" <aaron_r_martin@h...> wrote:
              > Hi Sarah,
              >
              > Welcome to the group.
              > I have not heard of the Lamp Eyes before, but would love to see
              some
              > pictures of them.
              > Thanks,
              > Aaron

              courtesy of one of my fave fish sites:

              http://www.fishprofiles.com/profiles/fw/profile.asp?
              id=Moenkhausia+sanctaefilomenae


              >
              > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Sarah"
              > <sarah@f...> wrote:
              > > Hi everyone,
              > >
              > > My name is Sarah and my Partner is Tony, We own a 100 litre
              > > freshwater aquarium which has guppies (with babies), mollies,
              clown
              > > loaches, Red finned shark, Clown Plec, neons, apple snails,
              angel,
              > > and some blue lamp eye's.
              >
              Yahoo! Groups Links

               


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              Group: AquaticLife Message: 200 From: Sarah Date: 12/19/2003
              Subject: New Fish!!
              HI everyone,

              we just thought we would tell everyone that we bought some new fish
              today, we added 7 Golden danios. And the biorb that we didn't have
              anything in now has 2 pygmy puffers. Tony thought they were well
              cute. and they are.

              Sarah & Tony
              Group: AquaticLife Message: 201 From: Aaron R. Martin, cmt Date: 12/19/2003
              Subject: Re: New Fish!!
              What is a 'biorb'?

              --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Sarah"
              <sarah@f...> wrote:
              > HI everyone,
              >
              > we just thought we would tell everyone that we bought some new fish
              > today, we added 7 Golden danios. And the biorb that we didn't have
              > anything in now has 2 pygmy puffers. Tony thought they were well
              > cute. and they are.
              >
              > Sarah & Tony
              Group: AquaticLife Message: 202 From: Sarah Date: 12/19/2003
              Subject: Re: New Fish!!
              Hi, Here is a pic of one.
               
               
              Regards
               
              Sarah & Tony
               
              -------Original Message-------
               
              Date: 19 December 2003 22:55:50
              Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: New Fish!!
               
              What is a 'biorb'?

              --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Sarah"
              <sarah@f...> wrote:
              > HI everyone,
              >
              > we just thought we would tell everyone that we bought some new fish
              > today, we added 7 Golden danios. And the biorb that we didn't have
              > anything in now has 2 pygmy  puffers. Tony thought they were well
              > cute. and they are.
              >
              > Sarah & Tony



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              Group: AquaticLife Message: 203 From: scrapinacox Date: 12/19/2003
              Subject: Cory Cat Question
              I have two green corys that layed eggs about 3 weeks ago. Well they
              were all over the tank. So far, without disturbing the terrain, I
              have counted 7 baby corys. Is there and average number that usually
              hatch and survive or is it a roll of the dice?
              Group: AquaticLife Message: 204 From: Alberto Bertolin Date: 12/19/2003
              Subject: EHIEM Filter confusion (30 gallon freshwater setup)
              Hi all! Im not sure if anyone remembers me, but Im new
              to this whole aquarium "thing".

              I have finaly figured out my entire 30gallon set up,
              but there is still one thing that boggles me.

              I have an EHIEM filter and pump. While the pump is
              self explanatory, the filter has me confused. With the
              package, came 2 sets of valves (a total of 4 valves) I
              am not sure what to do with them location wise, and
              even worse I have absolutely no clue what they are
              for!

              Furthermore, the manual said that I cannot just simply
              turn the filer on, that I had to "prime it" Of course,
              the translation was written so poorly that I
              completely got lost in the language and have been left
              with no clue as to how to prime the filter. Do I just
              have to fill the filter with water before starting it?

              Can anyone help?

              -Alberto

              __________________________________
              Do you Yahoo!?
              Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
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              Group: AquaticLife Message: 205 From: Shan Crager Date: 12/20/2003
              Subject: Hello everyone!!!!!
              Well, hi everyone. I got an invite to this group because the "fish"
              group i was in was being bombarded with porn stuff. I'm glad to see
              there really are other fish peeps out there. Anyway, let me introduce
              my self. My name is shanster and i've been a fish nut for about 3
              years so i guess i'm still kind of new to this. I have four tanks in
              my house. 2 in my kids room with small fish in them. One large one in
              my living room that i call my shark tank and another large one in my
              bedroom that has our "babies" which we treat better than ourselves
              sometimes. ha ha ha ha. I'm probably going to have to get another
              tank here soon. Either one that is larger or another one to split up
              my sharks because they are getting pretty big and the tank is getting
              crowded. Anyway, hi again and i hope to learn things here and share
              things with everyone.
              Group: AquaticLife Message: 206 From: better_bettas Date: 12/22/2003
              Subject: BlueBettaUSA.com
              Check out the newest site on the web !

              http://www.bluebettausa.com
              Group: AquaticLife Message: 207 From: amalthea23 Date: 12/22/2003
              Subject: Re: BlueBettaUSA.com
              wow, those fish are GORGEOUS!
              amalthea
              On Monday, December 22, 2003, at 12:03 PM, better_bettas wrote:

              > Check out the newest site on the web !
              >
              > http://www.bluebettausa.com
              >
              >
              <image.tiff>
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
              >  
              > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >  
              > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
              >
              >
              http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
              for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
              religion....
              Group: AquaticLife Message: 208 From: better_bettas Date: 12/22/2003
              Subject: Re: BlueBettaUSA.com
              Thanks ! Working hard on getting it ready for some stock !

              --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, amalthea23
              <amalthea23@m...> wrote:
              > wow, those fish are GORGEOUS!
              > amalthea
              > On Monday, December 22, 2003, at 12:03 PM, better_bettas wrote:
              >
              > > Check out the newest site on the web !
              > >
              > > http://www.bluebettausa.com
              > >
              > >
              > <image.tiff>
              > >
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
              > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
              > >  
              > > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > >  
              > > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
              Service.
              > >
              > >
              > http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
              > for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
              > religion....
              Group: AquaticLife Message: 209 From: amalthea23 Date: 12/22/2003
              Subject: Re: BlueBettaUSA.com
              where are you guys located? i'd definately want one at some point if
              you were close by

              amalthea
              On Tuesday, December 23, 2003, at 12:22 AM, better_bettas wrote:

              > Thanks ! Working hard on getting it ready for some stock !
              >
              > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, amalthea23
              > <amalthea23@m...> wrote:
              > > wow, those fish are GORGEOUS!
              > > amalthea
              > > On Monday, December 22, 2003, at 12:03 PM, better_bettas wrote:
              > >
              > > > Check out the newest site on the web !
              > > >
              > > > http://www.bluebettausa.com
              > > >
              > > >
              > > <image.tiff>
              > > >
              > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > > >
              > > > •       To visit your group on the web, go to:
              > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
              > > >  
              > > > •       To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > > >  
              > > > •       Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
              > Service.
              > > >
              > > >
              > > http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
              > > for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
              > > religion....
              >
              >
              <image.tiff>
              >
              >
              <image.tiff>
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
              >  
              > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >  
              > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
              >
              >


              http://www.puppetterrors.com
              don't be afraid to scream...
              Group: AquaticLife Message: 210 From: Dom Date: 12/22/2003
              Subject: Re: BlueBettaUSA.com
              I kept some HM (Half Moon) tail betta, Crown Tail betta and short
              tail betta. Betta is easy to breed. The betta you saw from the site
              is the selected. May be it is the best and only one from the 50 fry.

              --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, amalthea23
              <amalthea23@m...> wrote:
              > where are you guys located? i'd definately want one at some point
              if
              > you were close by
              >
              > amalthea
              > On Tuesday, December 23, 2003, at 12:22 AM, better_bettas wrote:
              >
              > > Thanks ! Working hard on getting it ready for some stock !
              > >
              > > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, amalthea23
              > > <amalthea23@m...> wrote:
              > > > wow, those fish are GORGEOUS!
              > > > amalthea
              > > > On Monday, December 22, 2003, at 12:03 PM, better_bettas wrote:
              > > >
              > > > > Check out the newest site on the web !
              > > > >
              > > > > http://www.bluebettausa.com
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > <image.tiff>
              > > > >
              > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > > > >
              > > > > •       To visit your group on the web, go to:
              > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
              > > > >  
              > > > > •       To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > > > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > > > >  
              > > > > •       Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
              Terms of
              > > Service.
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
              > > > for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
              > > > religion....
              > >
              > >
              > <image.tiff>
              > >
              > >
              > <image.tiff>
              > >
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
              > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
              > >  
              > > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > >  
              > > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
              Service.
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              > http://www.puppetterrors.com
              > don't be afraid to scream...
              Group: AquaticLife Message: 211 From: amalthea23 Date: 12/22/2003
              Subject: Re: BlueBettaUSA.com
              i've bred them before, but now i've taken to breeding the bubblegums.
              they're actually easier even though they're egg layers...
              amalthea
              On Tuesday, December 23, 2003, at 01:28 AM, Dom wrote:

              > I kept some HM (Half Moon) tail betta, Crown Tail betta and short
              > tail betta. Betta is easy to breed. The betta you saw from the site
              > is the selected. May be it is the best and only one from the 50 fry.
              >
              > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, amalthea23
              > <amalthea23@m...> wrote:
              > > where are you guys located? i'd definately want one at some point
              > if
              > > you were close by
              > >
              > > amalthea
              > > On Tuesday, December 23, 2003, at 12:22 AM, better_bettas wrote:
              > >
              > > > Thanks ! Working hard on getting it ready for some stock !
              http://www.puppetterrors.com
              don't be afraid to scream...
              Group: AquaticLife Message: 212 From: Dom Date: 12/22/2003
              Subject: Re: Hi, We are new!!!!
              Hope my info about the red eye tetra can help you.

              Origin : South America
              Temperature Range: 22-26 degree Celcious. (72-79 Degree F)
              Cummunity: Good
              Adult Size: Female - 10cm. Male - 10cm.
              Diet: All food
              Ease of keeping: 10/10 (very easy)
              PH Range: 6.8-7.8

              Red eye tetra is a very tough and hardly fish. the red eye tetra is
              ideal to place in a new aquarium. Both male and female are thick-
              bodied fish and can be quite boisterous. But if kept in a small shoal
              of five or six they will chase each other and leave other species
              alone. The body is silver, with a black spot at the root of the tail
              and a half cicle of red above the eye. If this fish is unhappy or
              unwell, the coloration will change to silvery-black. It is very easy
              to breed, but the adults must be removed as soon as possible as they
              have finished spawning.

              Feeding:
              Red eye tetra will take just about anything that is offered,
              including grated beef heart, chopped small earthworm, grindleworm and
              so on. They will continues to eat while there is food in the
              aquarium, so it is advisable to feed only small quantities at a time,
              ensuring that there is enough food for the other occupants of the
              aquarium.
              --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, PRABHU G P L
              <gplp60@v...> wrote:
              > good collections. keep it up.
              >
              > But we, chaps ,.in India are very unfortunate. And nobody get us
              good verities even lots and lots of aquariums are scattered through
              India, They supply locally bred live bearers and repeated items and
              I am really fed up going to the shops.
              >
              >
              > Thank you for the picture of the fish.
              >
              > Regards, Prabhu G P L
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: Sarah
              > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 3:39 AM
              > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Hi, We are
              new!!!!
              >
              >
              > Hi,
              >
              > Here is a pic of the blue lamp eye's. We have just
              found they are tetras
              >
              > Regards
              >
              > Sarah & Tony
              >
              > -------Original Message-------
              >
              > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
              > Date: 18 December 2003 21:23:36
              > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Hi, We are
              new!!!!
              >
              > --- In
              FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Aaron R.
              > Martin, cmt" <aaron_r_martin@h...> wrote:
              > > Hi Sarah,
              > >
              > > Welcome to the group.
              > > I have not heard of the Lamp Eyes before, but would love
              to see
              > some
              > > pictures of them.
              > > Thanks,
              > > Aaron
              >
              > courtesy of one of my fave fish sites:
              >
              > http://www.fishprofiles.com/profiles/fw/profile.asp?
              > id=Moenkhausia+sanctaefilomenae
              >
              >
              > >
              > > --- In
              FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Sarah"
              > > <sarah@f...> wrote:
              > > > Hi everyone,
              > > >
              > > > My name is Sarah and my Partner is Tony, We own a 100
              litre
              > > > freshwater aquarium which has guppies (with babies),
              mollies,
              > clown
              > > > loaches, Red finned shark, Clown Plec, neons, apple
              snails,
              > angel,
              > > > and some blue lamp eye's.
              > >
              > --------------------------------------------------------------------
              ----
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
              >
              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
              >
              > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
              Terms of Service.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > --------------------------------------------------------------------
              ----------
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
              >
              > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
              Service.
              Group: AquaticLife Message: 213 From: Dom Date: 12/23/2003
              Subject: Re: EHIEM Filter confusion (30 gallon freshwater setup)
              Which model of Eheim filter you are using? 2028 professional? 2213 or
              2217? perhaps, u can check on www.eheim.com for more info.

              --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, Alberto
              Bertolin <albertolindesign@y...> wrote:
              > Hi all! Im not sure if anyone remembers me, but Im new
              > to this whole aquarium "thing".
              >
              > I have finaly figured out my entire 30gallon set up,
              > but there is still one thing that boggles me.
              >
              > I have an EHIEM filter and pump. While the pump is
              > self explanatory, the filter has me confused. With the
              > package, came 2 sets of valves (a total of 4 valves) I
              > am not sure what to do with them location wise, and
              > even worse I have absolutely no clue what they are
              > for!
              >
              > Furthermore, the manual said that I cannot just simply
              > turn the filer on, that I had to "prime it" Of course,
              > the translation was written so poorly that I
              > completely got lost in the language and have been left
              > with no clue as to how to prime the filter. Do I just
              > have to fill the filter with water before starting it?
              >
              > Can anyone help?
              >
              > -Alberto
              >
              > __________________________________
              > Do you Yahoo!?
              > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
              > http://companion.yahoo.com/
              Group: AquaticLife Message: 214 From: Dom Date: 12/23/2003
              Subject: Re: New Fish!!
              or http://www.koivision.co.uk/ for biorb


              --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Sarah"
              <sarah@f...> wrote:
              > Hi, Here is a pic of one.
              >
              > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI
              > dll?ViewItem&item=3372164294&category=32046
              >
              > Regards
              >
              > Sarah & Tony
              >
              > -------Original Message-------
              >
              > From: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
              > Date: 19 December 2003 22:55:50
              > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: New Fish!!
              >
              > What is a 'biorb'?
              >
              > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Sarah"
              > <sarah@f...> wrote:
              > > HI everyone,
              > >
              > > we just thought we would tell everyone that we bought some new
              fish
              > > today, we added 7 Golden danios. And the biorb that we didn't
              have
              > > anything in now has 2 pygmy puffers. Tony thought they were well
              > > cute. and they are.
              > >
              > > Sarah & Tony
              >
              >
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              > To visit your group on the web, go to:
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
              >
              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
              Group: AquaticLife Message: 215 From: better_bettas Date: 12/23/2003
              Subject: Re: BlueBettaUSA.com
              Florida, USA
              --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, amalthea23
              <amalthea23@m...> wrote:
              > where are you guys located? i'd definately want one at some point
              if
              > you were close by
              >
              > amalthea
              > On Tuesday, December 23, 2003, at 12:22 AM, better_bettas wrote:
              >
              > > Thanks ! Working hard on getting it ready for some stock !
              > >
              > > --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, amalthea23
              > > <amalthea23@m...> wrote:
              > > > wow, those fish are GORGEOUS!
              > > > amalthea
              > > > On Monday, December 22, 2003, at 12:03 PM, better_bettas wrote:
              > > >
              > > > > Check out the newest site on the web !
              > > > >
              > > > > http://www.bluebettausa.com
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > <image.tiff>
              > > > >
              > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > > > >
              > > > > •       To visit your group on the web, go to:
              > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
              > > > >  
              > > > > •       To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > > > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > > > >  
              > > > > •       Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
              Terms of
              > > Service.
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > http://amalthea23.diaryland.com
              > > > for all the news that's unfit to print, and may be against your
              > > > religion....
              > >
              > >
              > <image.tiff>
              > >
              > >
              > <image.tiff>
              > >
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > > • To visit your group on the web, go to:
              > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
              > >  
              > > • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > >  
              > > • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
              Service.
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              > http://www.puppetterrors.com
              > don't be afraid to scream...
              Group: AquaticLife Message: 216 From: Kelly Date: 12/23/2003
              Subject: HELP... Swordtail problems!!
              Hi there,

              I have a female swordtail that I believe is having trouble
              delivering her fry. She has passed 3 stillborn fry over the past 3
              hours and is still fat. She is not acting stressed or any different
              than normal. The 3 stillborn where about triple the size of the
              swordtail fry that my other female had on Saturday.. Could this be
              the problem??

              This is only my 4th experience with swordtails giving birth and I am
              batting only 25%, as the 1st 2 dropped the entire batch, all still
              born in one Klump and then died... My 3rd had roughly 30 very tiny
              babies just last Saturday and other than taking a very long time.. (
              6-8 hours) She seemed to have no problem at all.

              I moved this mom from the plastic seperator as the fry were to big to
              fit down the slits (their heads were stuck even though they were
              stillborn) and put her into a netted basket, with some java moss,
              giving her more room and also giving the fry more room if she
              delivers any live ones!

              Is there anything more that I can do for her?? Lights on or off in
              tank?? noise in room?? anything that will help her.

              I have never had such problems with ANY of my MANY MANY molly's and
              am wondering if there is something different that I should be doing
              for swordtails!!

              HELP...... PLEASE AND THANK YOU!
              Kelly
              Group: AquaticLife Message: 217 From: Sarah Date: 12/23/2003
              Subject: Re: HELP... Swordtail problems!!
              Hi Kelly,
               
              When i had my previous tank i had the same problem i had a huge female sword, After a couple of days of waiting and hoping that she would be ok. She gave birth to about 65 stillborns.
               
              I did find though that keeping the noise in the room to a minium and dulling the light ( i layed some cardboard between the light and her) helped her, it might work for you. Hopefullt she won't loose them though. Fingers Crossed!!
               
              Regards
               
              Sarah
               
              -------Original Message-------
               
              Date: 23 December 2003 20:01:44
              Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] HELP... Swordtail problems!!
               
              Hi there,

              I have a female swordtail that I believe is having trouble
              delivering her fry. She has passed 3 stillborn fry over the past 3
              hours and is still fat. She is not acting stressed or any different
              than normal.     The 3 stillborn where about triple the size of the
              swordtail fry that my other female had on Saturday.. Could this be
              the problem??

              This is only my 4th experience with swordtails giving birth and I am
              batting only 25%, as the 1st 2 dropped the entire batch, all still
              born in one Klump and then died... My 3rd had roughly 30 very tiny
              babies just last Saturday and other than taking a very long time.. (
              6-8 hours)  She seemed to have no problem at all.

              I moved this mom from the plastic seperator as the fry were to big to
              fit down the slits (their heads were stuck even though they were
              stillborn) and put her into a netted basket, with some java moss,
              giving her more room and also giving the fry more room if she
              delivers any live ones!

              Is there anything more that I can do for her??  Lights on or off in
              tank?? noise in room??  anything that will help her.

              I have never had such problems with ANY of my MANY MANY molly's and
              am wondering if there is something different that I should be doing
              for swordtails!! 

              HELP...... PLEASE AND THANK YOU!
              Kelly 



              Yahoo! Groups Links

               
              Group: AquaticLife Message: 218 From: blake rea Date: 12/25/2003
              Subject: Re: Hi, We are new!!!!
              Attachments :

                hi can you help me and  tell me if my guppy is pregnant heres the pic please reply back


                Do you Yahoo!?
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                Group: AquaticLife Message: 219 From: Sarah Date: 12/25/2003
                Subject: Re: Hi, We are new!!!!
                Hi,
                 
                You can't really see in the pic but if she has been in contact with a male or/ has a gravid spot (black spot at the back of her abdomen) then yes she is.
                 
                Some other new for the group, we don't know if you remember but we posted a few days ago regarding a very sick female guppy, well she is feeling alot better and joining in with the rest of the group now, she aint 100% but it looks hopeful, and last night i watched her give birth to 6 babies..awwwwww. She still has more in her but she seems to give birth when she wants to.....lol
                 
                Hope everyone had a great xmas and happy new year to you all!!!!!!!!!! 
                 
                Regards
                 
                Sarah & Tony XX
                 
                 
                -------Original Message-------
                 
                Date: 25 December 2003 14:49:38
                Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Hi, We are new!!!!
                 

                hi can you help me and  tell me if my guppy is pregnant heres the pic please reply back


                Do you Yahoo!?
                Yahoo! Photos - Get your photo on the big screen in Times Square


                Yahoo! Groups Links

                 
                Group: AquaticLife Message: 220 From: ~~~Kelly~~~ Date: 12/25/2003
                Subject: An ALL Guppy Tank?????
                 
                Hello there,
                 
                 My 17 year old daughter has a 10 gallon tank that was set up and filled 2 weeks and has run its cycle etc etc.   She would like this to be an ALL guppy tank, but we are not sure how many guppies to allow her to have in a 10 gallon tank.
                 
                We have read and heard so many different things.. Everything from only 10 guppies to 20-30 because of their small size. 
                 
                Our LPS owner is great, but he has told us that when figuring space due to waste etc that 4 guppies = 1 regular fish and 8 neons are equal to 1 regular fish.  He has never steered us wrong, however this sounds like an aweful lot of fish for a 10 gallon tank.
                 
                She wants to go tomorrow and get some guppies to put her in tank, but I am not sure how many she should add at once OR how many total she should have in there. ( If she has her way, we will come home with 20 or more... LOL)
                 
                I am also curious as to the male/ female ratio, as she is of course more intrigued by the males due to their much prettier colors.
                 
                ANY advice, links or suggestions you have would be greatly appreciated!
                 
                Thank you,
                  Kelly
                Group: AquaticLife Message: 221 From: PRABHU G P L Date: 12/25/2003
                Subject: Re: Hi, We are new!!!!
                Hi,
                 
                The picture sent by you is not clearly visible to know if it is pregnant.  You can very well make out by seeing the black and bulging spot next to belly.  If it is so then it is.  Otherwise, have patience.
                 
                With regards,  Prabhu G P L
                 
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: blake rea
                Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2003 8:19 PM
                Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Hi, We are new!!!!


                hi can you help me and  tell me if my guppy is pregnant heres the pic please reply back


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                Yahoo! Photos - Get your photo on the big screen in Times Square


                Yahoo! Groups Links


                Group: AquaticLife Message: 222 From: PRABHU G P L Date: 12/25/2003
                Subject: Re: An ALL Guppy Tank?????
                Hi, Kelly,
                 
                You can safely  add twenty to thirty.  But in my openion, you are presently unnecessarily spending money adding more and more guppies.  Instead, have three females and six males guppies with beatifull colours and body structures with long and wide tail.  They multify within a period of six months and you will have plenty of guppies thereafter.  Select some of the new borns, of course when they become half an inch long,  develop them.
                 
                with regards
                 
                Prabhu G P L
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Friday, December 26, 2003 9:38 AM
                Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] An ALL Guppy Tank?????

                 
                Hello there,
                 
                 My 17 year old daughter has a 10 gallon tank that was set up and filled 2 weeks and has run its cycle etc etc.   She would like this to be an ALL guppy tank, but we are not sure how many guppies to allow her to have in a 10 gallon tank.
                 
                We have read and heard so many different things.. Everything from only 10 guppies to 20-30 because of their small size. 
                 
                Our LPS owner is great, but he has told us that when figuring space due to waste etc that 4 guppies = 1 regular fish and 8 neons are equal to 1 regular fish.  He has never steered us wrong, however this sounds like an aweful lot of fish for a 10 gallon tank.
                 
                She wants to go tomorrow and get some guppies to put her in tank, but I am not sure how many she should add at once OR how many total she should have in there. ( If she has her way, we will come home with 20 or more... LOL)
                 
                I am also curious as to the male/ female ratio, as she is of course more intrigued by the males due to their much prettier colors.
                 
                ANY advice, links or suggestions you have would be greatly appreciated!
                 
                Thank you,
                  Kelly


                Yahoo! Groups Links

                Group: AquaticLife Message: 223 From: Dom Date: 12/28/2003
                Subject: Re: An ALL Guppy Tank?????
                Kelly,
                I might giving you the other suggestion. Get 6 females and 3 males
                will do. Due to guppies will spawning every 2 weeks - 1 month time.
                You will getting headache when you have up to 30-50 of guppy fry.

                Female and male of guppy not really know how to take care of their
                newborn. I saw my female guppy delivering 20 newborn. It was very
                excited moment for me. Currently, I'm keeping the fry with neon tetra
                and molly fry.

                --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, PRABHU G P L
                <gplp60@v...> wrote:
                > Hi, Kelly,
                >
                > You can safely add twenty to thirty. But in my openion, you are
                presently unnecessarily spending money adding more and more guppies.
                Instead, have three females and six males guppies with beatifull
                colours and body structures with long and wide tail. They multify
                within a period of six months and you will have plenty of guppies
                thereafter. Select some of the new borns, of course when they become
                half an inch long, develop them.
                >
                > with regards
                >
                > Prabhu G P L
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: ~~~Kelly~~~
                > To: * * Freshwater Tropicals
                > Sent: Friday, December 26, 2003 9:38 AM
                > Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] An ALL Guppy Tank?????
                >
                >
                >
                > Hello there,
                >
                > My 17 year old daughter has a 10 gallon tank that was set
                up and filled 2 weeks and has run its cycle etc etc. She would like
                this to be an ALL guppy tank, but we are not sure how many guppies to
                allow her to have in a 10 gallon tank.
                >
                > We have read and heard so many different things..
                Everything from only 10 guppies to 20-30 because of their small
                size.
                >
                > Our LPS owner is great, but he has told us that when
                figuring space due to waste etc that 4 guppies = 1 regular fish and 8
                neons are equal to 1 regular fish. He has never steered us wrong,
                however this sounds like an aweful lot of fish for a 10 gallon tank.
                >
                > She wants to go tomorrow and get some guppies to put her in
                tank, but I am not sure how many she should add at once OR how many
                total she should have in there. ( If she has her way, we will come
                home with 20 or more... LOL)
                >
                > I am also curious as to the male/ female ratio, as she is
                of course more intrigued by the males due to their much prettier
                colors.
                >
                > ANY advice, links or suggestions you have would be greatly
                appreciated!
                >
                > Thank you,
                > Kelly
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                ----------
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                >
                > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                Service.
                Group: AquaticLife Message: 224 From: Dom Date: 12/28/2003
                Subject: Re: Hi, We are new!!!!
                try on http://aquariumhobbyist.com/guppies/pregnancy.html
                and http://guppyplace.tripod.com/FAQS.html for more info.

                --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, PRABHU G P L
                <gplp60@v...> wrote:
                > Hi,
                >
                > The picture sent by you is not clearly visible to know if it is
                pregnant. You can very well make out by seeing the black and bulging
                spot next to belly. If it is so then it is. Otherwise, have
                patience.
                >
                > With regards, Prabhu G P L
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: blake rea
                > To: FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2003 8:19 PM
                > Subject: Re: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Re: Hi, We are
                new!!!!
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > hi can you help me and tell me if my guppy is pregnant heres
                the pic please reply back
                >
                >
                > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                ----------
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                > Yahoo! Photos - Get your photo on the big screen in Times Square
                > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                > ADVERTISEMENT
                >
                >
                >
                >
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                >
                > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium/
                >
                > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                Service.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                ----------
                Group: AquaticLife Message: 225 From: J. Clower-Brown Date: 12/29/2003
                Subject: New member!
                Hi all, just joined the group today.

                After 4 years with a 29 gallon tank of vegetarian African Cichlids,
                I'm starting over again with a 45 gallon tank. Just got 3 clown
                loaches, a pleco, and a yellow Zig-Zag eel. I think I'll try my hand
                at non-veg Africans, but since I just set the tank up over the
                holiday I want to give it time to adjust for a little while.

                I look forward to hearing from you!

                Jen
                Group: AquaticLife Message: 226 From: Susan Cole Date: 12/29/2003
                Subject: Help with my tank
                I am new to this group and I have a problem I was hoping someone can help me with. 
                 
                My husband bought me a 10 gallon tank he set up for me so that I can have some guppies and neon's because his 250 gallon take has fish that would eat these kinds of fish.  My problem is for some reason the tank seems to have a gas looking film in it.  When the light is on the tank clears up but when the light is off the tank becomes extremely cloudy to the point you can hardly see through it.  My husband said he has never seen this before. 
                 
                This tank is set up with an underground filter system.  He also just put in a small filter that sits on the side of the tank but this doesn't seem to be helping either.  The tank has been running for over a month and a half now.  I currently have three guppies, five neon's, one gold algae eater and one (I call it a sucker fish) but it's real name starts with a "P".  It is in the algae eater family.  Just can't think of the name.  I have lost one male guppy and one female guppy since starting the tank. 
                 
                Any help would be most helpful.  I would really like to enjoy my tank.  And I am sure this can't be healthy to the fish.
                Susan C.
                        California
                 


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                Group: AquaticLife Message: 227 From: Dom Date: 12/29/2003
                Subject: Re: Help with my tank
                Just like you said. The tank cloudy when the light is off. Would you
                mind to let us know the water is in what colour? Green? Brown? So
                far, what is in my mind like below:

                If you tank explore under the sun shine or the light on for too long.
                The algae will grow and the water will turn to green colour. Don't
                keep the tank under any hot sun or reduce the light.

                If you overfeed the fish, the pellet milking in the water. What you
                can see is your tank water turn to the colour like your pellet.
                Reduce the feeding time and pellet quantity.

                Cheers,
                Dom

                --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "Susan Cole"
                <s.cole18@v...> wrote:
                > I am new to this group and I have a problem I was hoping someone
                can help me
                > with.
                >
                > My husband bought me a 10 gallon tank he set up for me so that I
                can have
                > some guppies and neon's because his 250 gallon take has fish that
                would eat
                > these kinds of fish. My problem is for some reason the tank seems
                to have a
                > gas looking film in it. When the light is on the tank clears up
                but when
                > the light is off the tank becomes extremely cloudy to the point you
                can
                > hardly see through it. My husband said he has never seen this
                before.
                >
                > This tank is set up with an underground filter system. He also
                just put in
                > a small filter that sits on the side of the tank but this doesn't
                seem to be
                > helping either. The tank has been running for over a month and a
                half now.
                > I currently have three guppies, five neon's, one gold algae eater
                and one (I
                > call it a sucker fish) but it's real name starts with a "P". It is
                in the
                > algae eater family. Just can't think of the name. I have lost one
                male
                > guppy and one female guppy since starting the tank.
                >
                > Any help would be most helpful. I would really like to enjoy my
                tank. And
                > I am sure this can't be healthy to the fish.
                > Susan C.
                > California
                >
                >
                >
                > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                --------
                > ----
                Group: AquaticLife Message: 228 From: Dom Date: 12/29/2003
                Subject: Re: New member!
                Hi Jen,
                What type of african cichlids you kept? Malawi? Tangayika or Victoria?
                I kept 30 over of Malawi cichlids before. It is fun and easy to take
                care of them.

                I am into African Dwarf cichlids now.

                Dom.

                --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "J. Clower-
                Brown" <skyfire_jcb@y...> wrote:
                > Hi all, just joined the group today.
                >
                > After 4 years with a 29 gallon tank of vegetarian African Cichlids,
                > I'm starting over again with a 45 gallon tank. Just got 3 clown
                > loaches, a pleco, and a yellow Zig-Zag eel. I think I'll try my
                hand
                > at non-veg Africans, but since I just set the tank up over the
                > holiday I want to give it time to adjust for a little while.
                >
                > I look forward to hearing from you!
                >
                > Jen
                Group: AquaticLife Message: 229 From: Jen Clower-Brown Date: 12/29/2003
                Subject: Re: New member!
                I've had several over the years, but I believe they were all Malawi.  I really need to do more research before I get more.  I was told by my local aquarium specialist that if I want less aggressive Africans to go with the non-vegetarians due to their temperment.
                 
                I love the activeness of more aggressive species, but the ones I had tended to take over territories and beat up on each other quite a bit.  Eventually, I was left with only one, and he dominated the very center of the tank and didn't want new fish to be introduced.
                 


                Dom <itssg@...> wrote:
                Hi Jen,
                What type of african cichlids you kept? Malawi? Tangayika or Victoria?
                I kept 30 over of Malawi cichlids before. It is fun and easy to take
                care of them.

                I am into African Dwarf cichlids now.

                Dom.

                --- In FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium@yahoogroups.com, "J. Clower-
                Brown" wrote:
                > Hi all, just joined the group today.
                >
                > After 4 years with a 29 gallon tank of vegetarian African Cichlids,
                > I'm starting over again with a 45 gallon tank. Just got 3 clown
                > loaches, a pleco, and a yellow Zig-Zag eel. I think I'll try my
                hand
                > at non-veg Africans, but since I just set the tank up over the
                > holiday I want to give it time to adjust for a little while.
                >
                > I look forward to hearing from you!
                >
                > Jen




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                Group: AquaticLife Message: 230 From: Jeff Date: 12/30/2003
                Subject: Newbie with no experience
                Hello all,

                Just though I'd introduce myself. My name is Jeff and I live in
                KS. I wanted to get started with an aquarium so I bought a 10 gallon
                with 5 Tiger Barbs. I set up everything as instructed did the water,
                set the heater and all. Within three days the water has gotten a
                little cloudy and giving off a funky, almost I left water in a pot in
                the kitchen sink too long smell. I wanted to get some of the stuff I
                see in the store for cloudiness but I'm usure, can anyone point me in
                the right direction?
                Group: AquaticLife Message: 231 From: ~~Kelly~~ Date: 12/30/2003
                Subject: Re: Newbie with no experience
                 
                 Hi Jeff,
                 
                 I am not sure if I can help you or not, but you didn't mention how long your tank was set up before you added fish or what any of the water levels where, however I know that when we set up our 29 gallon in September it took a good month of patiently waiting for and looking at our fish through cloudy water.. Everyone said wait it out if the water tested Ok, which it did.   It was so hard to wait, but the patience paid off as it finally DID clear and has been crystal clear even since.  It never had an odor, however it looked like somebody had poured milk in the tank...
                 
                     I would suggest that you take a water sample to your LPS and have them test it even if you have tested it at home.  We also take a tap water sample with us when we go as he likes to test that also..   There are chemicals that will clear the cloudy water, but from what we have learned that is only a temporary fix and that time is the only cure with a new tank.
                 
                Keep us posted!
                 
                Kelly
                -------Original Message-------
                 
                Date: 12/30/2003 05:15:33 PM
                Subject: [FreshwaterTropicalFishAquarium] Newbie with no experience
                 
                Hello all,

                   Just though I'd introduce myself. My name is Jeff and I live in
                KS. I wanted to get started with an aquarium so I bought a 10 gallon
                with 5 Tiger Barbs. I set up everything as instructed did the water,
                set the heater and all. Within three days the water has gotten a
                little cloudy and giving off a funky, almost I left water in a pot in
                the kitchen sink too long smell. I wanted to get some of the stuff I
                see in the store for cloudiness but I'm usure, can anyone point me in
                the right direction?



                Yahoo! Groups Links

                 
                Group: AquaticLife Message: 232 From: Deenerz@aol.com Date: 12/30/2003
                Subject: Re: Newbie with no experience
                Your tank is probably starting to cycle. This is a good thing.
                These sites will say it far better than I can.
                Mike
                http://www.geocities.com/heartland/ranch/1053/html/cycling.htm

                http://fish.orbust.net/cycling.html

                http://freshaquarium.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bestfish.com%2Fbreakin.html


                In a message dated 12/30/2003 5:15:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, jdoramus@... writes:

                >
                >
                > Hello all,
                >
                > Just though I'd introduce myself. My name is Jeff and I live in
                > KS. I wanted to get started with an aquarium so I bought a 10 gallon
                > with 5 Tiger Barbs. I set up everything as instructed did the water,
                > set the heater and all. Within three days the water has gotten a
                > little cloudy and giving off a funky, almost I left water in a pot in
                > the kitchen sink too long smell. I wanted to get some of the stuff I
                > see in the store for cloudiness but I'm usure, can anyone
                > point me in
                > the right direction?
                Group: AquaticLife Message: 233 From: PRABHU G P L Date: 12/31/2003
                Subject: Best wishes for the new year 2004
                Hi all,
                 
                I WISH  ALL MEMBERS A HAPPYA  AND PROSPEROUS NEW YEAR 2004. LET THE NEW YEAR INTRODUCE MORE AND MORE AQUARIA FREINDS WITH THE NEW THINKING AND IDIOLOGIES FOR THE SUCCESS OF THIS GOOD HOBBY. I WISH ALL MEMBERS INTRODUCE MORE AND MORE AQUA PLANTED AQUARIA TO MAKE THE GLASS HOUSE MORE ATTRACTIVE AND GREEN.
                 
                 
                PRABHU GPL